The Divorce Thread

[RedTeamGo!]

I know some on here have gone through divorce.

I have recently been thinking about it. Not sure if you can refer to my marriage as a marriage anymore. Not going to go into specifics.

I am mostly curious about the logistics of the whole thing. How does it work? Is it as terrible of a process as I am imagining? What is the first step? How much should I expect this to cost me?

Thanks

[bounty37h]

I know some on here have gone through divorce.

I have recently been thinking about it. Not sure if you can refer to my marriage as a marriage anymore. Not going to go into specifics.

I am mostly curious about the logistics of the whole thing. How does it work? Is it as terrible of a process as I am imagining? What is the first step? How much should I expect this to cost me?
Thanks

Havnt gone through it personally, but from my friends that have gone through it I would have to say almost everything . Good luck.

[Sea Ray]

I know some on here have gone through divorce.

I have recently been thinking about it. Not sure if you can refer to my marriage as a marriage anymore. Not going to go into specifics.

I am mostly curious about the logistics of the whole thing. How does it work? Is it as terrible of a process as I am imagining? What is the first step? How much should I expect this to cost me?

Thanks

So the baby didn't lead to happiness for your wife?

I've been through it but no kids involved.

[RedTeamGo!]

So the baby didn't lead to happiness for your wife?

I've been through it but no kids involved.

She is stressed about everything and redirects everything at me. I can do nothing right, basically. Just not a happy marriage whatsoever. I don't see it getting better.

[Sea Ray]

She is stressed about everything and redirects everything at me. I can do nothing right, basically. Just not a happy marriage whatsoever. I don't see it getting better.

Yeah, not good.

[WrongVerb]

When my marriage of 13 years was at its end in 2004 we got a lawyer who specialized in divorce mediation to draw up the proper documents. Cost about $1500. That was in Virginia. I'm assuming costs and laws will be different in Ohio but it's something to look into if the divorce is going to be amicable. Oh, and no kids were involved so that might be different for you as well.

BTW, it's going to suck in a lot of ways for awhile when you are back on your own.

[Larry Schuler]

I've read that marriage satisfaction is at its lowest point around the time children are first introduced to the picture. It sounds like a hard period in general. I'm sorry to hear it's been worse due to the relationship being strained.

[dougdirt]

Lawyer costs, at a minimum are probably going to run you $1500-2000. The retainer will probably be at least half of that.

Beyond that, I can't help much - but I just know that much from some friends that have recently been divorced.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sorry to hear it man, I'm going through it right now and honestly it is miserable.

I don't have kids, so that has made it a lot easier. We are just using a mediator and that has really kept the costs down. I don't know what it costs for a lawyer in Ohio, but in CA it is between $5-8k for retainer plus hourly. So if you can play nice and are on the same page it won't be as expensive. I don't know how you'll do it without a lawyer if you have a kid though.

Have you tried MC or anything yet?

[RedTeamGo!]

Sorry to hear it man, I'm going through it right now and honestly it is miserable.

I don't have kids, so that has made it a lot easier. We are just using a mediator and that has really kept the costs down. I don't know what it costs for a lawyer in Ohio, but in CA it is between $5-8k for retainer plus hourly. So if you can play nice and are on the same page it won't be as expensive. I don't know how you'll do it without a lawyer if you have a kid though.

Have you tried MC or anything yet?

I asked if she wanted to see a MC and she said no and that she says everything on her mind.

I have read that is a big alarm your divorce is inevitably heading towards divorce, the fact one or both of the spouses don't want to work on fixing problems.

- - - Updated - - -


BTW, it's going to suck in a lot of ways for awhile when you are back on your own.

What specifically will suck?

[Redsfaithful]

Worst time is when kids are 0-5. Once you get to school age it gets better.

Definitely think so long as there's no abuse in a relationship counseling should be considered (and if partner won't go to counseling that's probably a good last straw.)

Your life will be good and blown up, and she's in your life one way or the other forever now anyway, so it's the kind of thing you want to be sure about.

[WrongVerb]

I asked if she wanted to see a MC and she said no and that she says everything on her mind.

I have read that is a big alarm your divorce is inevitably heading towards divorce, the fact one or both of the spouses don't want to work on fixing problems.

- - - Updated - - -



What specifically will suck?

For me, even though I wanted out of the marriage, I still spent about a year working through depression and other issues after the split. Beyond that, how you handle your money will be very different. Save as much as you can now, because it gets bad for awhile, especially if you're paying alimony and/or child support. Be ready to downsize your life and try to carry as little debt out of the divorce as possible.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I asked if she wanted to see a MC and she said no and that she says everything on her mind.

I have read that is a big alarm your divorce is inevitably heading towards divorce, the fact one or both of the spouses don't want to work on fixing problems.

- - - Updated - - -



What specifically will suck?

I would just be more direct. My wife and I went way to late because we thought the exact same thing. We did end up going and basically figured out that we were in no way both saying what we thought, but the damage had been done so to speak. That said you both obviously have to realize there is a problem and want to work on it 100% and if you don't, than just save you money and start the process.

[Assembly Hall]

For me, even though I wanted out of the marriage, I still spent about a year working through depression and other issues after the split. Beyond that, how you handle your money will be very different. Save as much as you can now, because it gets bad for awhile, especially if you're paying alimony and/or child support. Be ready to downsize your life and try to carry as little debt out of the divorce as possible.

Very wise words. I would also add health. Depression is one thing, but geez I lost 50 lbs. after mine........and I didn't have it to lose. All I did was drink and pop pills. I could add more to this but I will save it for later. Just hang in there bro..........

[WrongVerb]

Very wise words. I would also add health. Depression is one thing, but geez I lost 50 lbs. after mine........and I didn't have it to lose. All I did was drink and pop pills. I could add more to this but I will save it for later. Just hang in there bro..........

Oh yeah, at the end of that year 2004/2005 I weighed the least I'd weighed since high school, and I haven't been close to that weight since.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Also you should talk to a lawyer first before you decide anything. Most will have a free consultation with you where you can ask all your questions. If you go down this path, you obviously want to make sure you are protected and you can figure out what your liability will be for child support/alimony and if you own your home what that might look like too.

[RedTeamGo!]

Thanks everyone for the advise. Much appreciated.

I actually did just purchase a home.

That is a big part of the reason why I am starting to get serious about this.

I know I will lose so much by getting a divorce, but with all of that negativity and loss as a result I think it will be better than my life right now.

[WrongVerb]

Thanks everyone for the advise. Much appreciated.

I actually did just purchase a home.

That is a big part of the reason why I am starting to get serious about this.

I know I will lose so much by getting a divorce, but with all of that negativity and loss as a result I think it will be better than my life right now.

Sometimes it is better. It is a lot better for me now, although it took several years to start to see it get better. I wouldn't trade my life now for anything I could have had with my ex-wife.

[Beltway]

She is stressed about everything and redirects everything at me. I can do nothing right, basically. Just not a happy marriage whatsoever. I don't see it getting better.
That's terrible. I'm sorry to hear it.

It sounds like psychological therapy could help. Cognitive behavioral therapy could probably do wonders for her (for everyone), but she has to want it.

[nmculbreth]

I asked if she wanted to see a MC and she said no and that she says everything on her mind.

I have read that is a big alarm your divorce is inevitably heading towards divorce, the fact one or both of the spouses don't want to work on fixing problems.


I know you didn't ask - but I'd encourage you to exhaust all of your alternatives before going down the divorce route. Aside from the substantial expense and emotional distress, you've got a child to consider and if you end up getting divorced you're going to end up losing half the time with your child. I'm not saying you should stay in a bad marriage for the sake of your child (kids are far better off with two relatively happy, divorced parents than miserable, married parents) but you owe it to them to at least try to make it work.

Instead of asking her if she wants to go to marriage counseling, tell her that YOU want (and need) to go to marriage counseling and be prepared to explain why it's necessary for the health of your relationship. If it doesn't work out and you still end up getting divorced, at least you can do so with a clean conscious.

[RedEye]

So sorry to hear this, RTG. Not knowing the specifics of your situation, I find it hard to comment, but I will say that when my marriage went through some rough patches, cognitive therapy helped a great deal. I hope everything works out for the best.

[RedTeamGo!]

I know you didn't ask - but I'd encourage you to exhaust all of your alternatives before going down the divorce route. Aside from the substantial expense and emotional distress, you've got a child to consider and if you end up getting divorced you're going to end up losing half the time with your child. I'm not saying you should stay in a bad marriage for the sake of your child (kids are far better off with two relatively happy, divorced parents than miserable, married parents) but you owe it to them to at least try to make it work.

Instead of asking her if she wants to go to marriage counseling, tell her that YOU want (and need) to go to marriage counseling and be prepared to explain why it's necessary for the health of your relationship. If it doesn't work out and you still end up getting divorced, at least you can do so with a clean conscious.

I am definitely going to try and salvage it. Just difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel unfortunately.

PS: I would appreciate you not mentioning this thread to our shared "real life" acquaintances (my wife is friends with some of your sisters friends and they all know the same people).

[Tom Servo]

I am definitely going to try and salvage it. Just difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel unfortunately.

PS: I would appreciate you not mentioning this thread to our shared "real life" acquaintances (my wife is friends with some of your sisters friends and they all know the same people).
yeah no snitchin

[Wonderful Monds]

She is stressed about everything and redirects everything at me. I can do nothing right, basically. Just not a happy marriage whatsoever. I don't see it getting better.

I don't want to pry publicly and you can PM me if you want, but does she have any history of depression/anxiety etc.? Possibly even that you might not be aware of yet?

Either way sorry to hear it man. :(

[Wonderful Monds]

Maybe individual counseling (for her) could be beneficial?

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't want to pry publicly and you can PM me if you want, but does she have any history of depression/anxiety etc.? Possibly even that you might not be aware of yet?

Either way sorry to hear it man. :(

I think she has anxiety issues but it's never been diagnosed. She has been afraid of everything ever since we got pregnant and even moreso once the little dude was born. I understand anxiety with a first child and whatnot, but I don't deserve to be treated the way I am being treated.

[Wonderful Monds]

I think she has anxiety issues but it's never been diagnosed. She has been afraid of everything ever since we got pregnant and even moreso once the little dude was born. I understand anxiety with a first child and whatnot, but I don't deserve to be treated the way I am being treated.

Yeah, I would definitely see if you can't sit down with her and have a conversation and just broach the subject gently...maybe propose you both go to individual counseling to work on things for the both of you? Even if you don't think you need it, the offer to go yourself as well can help steer that conversation away from a direction that can be taken as "accusatory", even if someone needs it, getting asked to look into therapy can be taken as an insult (unfortunately)

[nmculbreth]

I am definitely going to try and salvage it. Just difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel unfortunately.

PS: I would appreciate you not mentioning this thread to our shared "real life" acquaintances (my wife is friends with some of your sisters friends and they all know the same people).

That goes without saying.

Hang in there.

[TRF]

I almost got divorced back in 2011. Worst time of my life, almost ended it in fact. It was rough. We reconciled but honestly we only seemed to do so for our daughter. She graduated last week, and is heading off to college. She's the youngest. And now, we are at a crossroads in our marriage. The one thing we had left unifying us is leaving. So, I get where you are coming from, because she does the same things to me. In fact, as recently as this morning.

If you think she has anxiety issues, postpartum depression could be exacerbating them. But telling her she needs help probably won't work. She'll need to figure that one out mostly on her own.

Concentrate on your kid. Don't engage when she verbally attacks you, because that is exactly what she's looking for, a response. It's a trap I fall in to all too often (today). Maybe listen more and react less. You don't have to agree with her when she baits you to get her to ease off, but it doesn't have to be a battle.

Either she's the person you fell in love with and you want to be with her and help her through her issues, or she isn't that person anymore and you need to do what is best for you and your child.

It sucks, but the end of a marriage isn't the end of you.

[Dom Heffner]

I think she has anxiety issues but it's never been diagnosed. She has been afraid of everything ever since we got pregnant and even moreso once the little dude was born. I understand anxiety with a first child and whatnot, but I don't deserve to be treated the way I am being treated.

The best time to see a lawyer is now. I would go and see what you can legally do and not do to protect yourself.

Go stealth.

And I feel incredibly sorry for what you are going through. So sad.

I had a girl quit on me once. We weren't married but she basically quit. It stinks.

If she isn't the person you married or the situation is that awful, I would say your mourning period should be minimal.

You won't be missing any of this, believe me.

[Assembly Hall]

RTG, you doing okay?

Here is my story. I was married, to what I thought, a wonderful woman for 15 years. I came home from work one day and everything in the house was gone. As I am trying to assess the situation there is a knock on the door. It was a police officer serving me with divorce papers. Hell she took everything the house and it was too late to catch my banks open. The next morning I hit the banks that we had accounts with. Only to find out that all the money had been withdrawn by her. She had planned it, the bills at the house were in arrears. As I said all I did afterwards was drink and pop pills. My parents found me on the bathroom floor one day in a pool of vomit. I was having a hard time accepting reality and literally was killing myself without pulling a trigger. I got sobered up thanks to Mom and Dad. But still life sucked.......I blamed myself for the break-up and my world was shattered. But slow but sure things came to light.

Just hang in there my friend. These are the kind of things that define who we are.

PS.......dont make the same mistake I made. I should have went after my kid but didnt.

[Dom Heffner]

RTG, you doing okay?

Here is my story. I was married, to what I thought, a wonderful woman for 15 years. I came home from work one day and everything in the house was gone. As I am trying to assess the situation there is a knock on the door. It was a police officer serving me with divorce papers. Hell she took everything the house and it was too late to catch my banks open. The next morning I hit the banks that we had accounts with. Only to find out that all the money had been withdrawn by her. She had planned it, the bills at the house were in arrears. As I said all I did afterwards was drink and pop pills. My parents found me on the bathroom floor one day in a pool of vomit. I was having a hard time accepting reality and literally was killing myself without pulling a trigger. I got sobered up thanks to Mom and Dad. But still life sucked.......I blamed myself for the break-up and my world was shattered. But slow but sure things came to light.

Just hang in there my friend. These are the kind of things that define who we are.

PS.......dont make the same mistake I made. I should have went after my kid but didnt.

There needs to be some reform with divorce.

You shouldn't be able to drain bank accounts and then file right after.

That's bull_______.

[RedTeamGo!]

RTG, you doing okay?

Here is my story. I was married, to what I thought, a wonderful woman for 15 years. I came home from work one day and everything in the house was gone. As I am trying to assess the situation there is a knock on the door. It was a police officer serving me with divorce papers. Hell she took everything the house and it was too late to catch my banks open. The next morning I hit the banks that we had accounts with. Only to find out that all the money had been withdrawn by her. She had planned it, the bills at the house were in arrears. As I said all I did afterwards was drink and pop pills. My parents found me on the bathroom floor one day in a pool of vomit. I was having a hard time accepting reality and literally was killing myself without pulling a trigger. I got sobered up thanks to Mom and Dad. But still life sucked.......I blamed myself for the break-up and my world was shattered. But slow but sure things came to light.

Just hang in there my friend. These are the kind of things that define who we are.

PS.......dont make the same mistake I made. I should have went after my kid but didnt.

Yeah, I am OK.

Just something I have been thinking of for the last couple of months and am starting to think harder. Not emotionally unstable or anything at this point.

Thank you for your concern.

[bucksfan2]

I am a fairly laid back, easy going person. I don't let things bother me too much and I do a good job of letting things just bounce off of me. Sure every once in a while things hit a head, but those are few and far between. My wife is pretty much the opposite, she is a little more high strung and can let things get to her. Anyway right now I swear she is stressed every day. She has a lot on her plate, finishing up getting her masters in nursing, working part time at a hospital, getting enough clinical hours in each week, we are building a house and dealing with that is frustrating to say the least. Along with moving into my parents basement for a number of months is a daunting task. My two girls are 1 and 4, which can be a handful in itself, and the four year old sure can find a way to get under your skin!

From my perspective finding something that I like to do works. It can be golfing or playing softball as well as my wife doing something that she enjoys, going to a Pilates class or a Broadway play. Doing something that makes you happy puts you in a better mood. Maybe try going somewhere for a long weekend, getting out of the house away from the kid(s) go a long way helping your relationship as well as relieving the everyday stress?

I have no advice as to get divorced or not. Its "easier" on being a dad living under the same roof as the child, not constantly battling over custody. At the same time, my sister-in-law stayed in a pretty deadend relationship for a number or years before finally getting a divorce. My ex-brother-in-law screwed up too many times and the kids want little to do with him, which makes her battle easier. I don't know, maybe go to a therapist on your own to talk about your situation. I would imagine a session wit ha therapist would be much cheaper than a session with a lawyer.

[Assembly Hall]

Yeah, I am OK.

Just something I have been thinking of for the last couple of months and am starting to think harder. Not emotionally unstable or anything at this point.

Thank you for your concern.

Good to hear man........dammit don't lose it. I gotsta have somebody to spar with every once in a while!;)

[Sea Ray]

There needs to be some reform with divorce.

You shouldn't be able to drain bank accounts and then file right after.

That's bull_______.

It sure does and I fear our fellow RZer is about to find out how sexist the divorce process is...think Kramer vs Kramer. He'll end up working his behind off while his wife spends her time taking their son to playdates.

[Dom Heffner]

It sure does and I fear our fellow RZer is about to find out how sexist the divorce process is...think Kramer vs Kramer. He'll end up working his behind off while his wife spends her time taking their son to playdates.

We had it on our governor's desk and he wouldn't sign it twice. Ugh.

It's a shame, some of these deals.

[Sea Ray]

We had it on our governor's desk and he wouldn't sign it twice. Ugh.

It's a shame, some of these deals.

To those of us who aren't from Florida, to what are you referring?

Typically what happens in cases like this is that the Mom gets custody. Redteamgo will be lucky to get one weekend every two weeks with his son. But he'll get slapped with the majority of the bills. It's a wonderful system

[Assembly Hall]

It's a wonderful system

Try this on for size. My kid turns 13 and my ex decides she wants a baby with her new husband. Not only does she have the baby but decides to quit her job to be a stay at home mom for the little tyke. Nothing wrong with that but my child support went up because she left her job.

[dfs]

On an entirely unrelated note.....
I would very much encourage you to go talk to a counselor with or without your wife. You are asking strangers on an internet message board for a reality check and advice and that's great. I do it all the time. But a professional trained in the ways of your state who can look you in the eye and give unbiased advice would be a really, really, really good thing for you to have.

I've been going through "life events." Simply deciding to talk to a counselor removed physical weight off my shoulders. Actually talking to the counselor and hearing her say..."Damn, it sucks to be you. No wonder you are upset." (Well, not those words, but the counseling equivalent of those words) removed a ton of self doubt from my life. I'm a fan.

[Sea Ray]

Try this on for size. My kid turns 13 and my ex decides she wants a baby with her new husband. Not only does she have the baby but decides to quit her job to be a stay at home mom for the little tyke. Nothing wrong with that but my child support went up because she left her job.

That's total BS. Why does our legal system allow such nonsense? Why do her decisions get to affect you long after your marriage is over? Makes me wonder if her husband lost his job if that would cause your child support to go up as well? It'd be just as ridiculous.

[Assembly Hall]

That's total BS. Why does our legal system allow such nonsense? Why do her decisions get to affect you long after your marriage is over? Makes me wonder if her husband lost his job if that would cause your child support to go up as well? It'd be just as ridiculous.

To this day I am still pissed about it. Indiana has made some reforms in the laws, but not near enough.

[Sea Ray]

To this day I am still pissed about it. Indiana has made some reforms in the laws, but not near enough.

I can see why.

[Dom Heffner]

To those of us who aren't from Florida, to what are you referring?

Typically what happens in cases like this is that the Mom gets custody. Redteamgo will be lucky to get one weekend every two weeks with his son. But he'll get slapped with the majority of the bills. It's a wonderful system

Two divorce reform bills. The latest one was just a month ago. Ended forever alimony, brought by a woman GOP in the statehouse...

It assumed equal custody.

A dream, really. Scott got cold feet, even though it was passed by Republicans.

It probably went overboard but good God, people don't need to be supported forever.

[Dom Heffner]

That's total BS. Why does our legal system allow such nonsense? Why do her decisions get to affect you long after your marriage is over? Makes me wonder if her husband lost his job if that would cause your child support to go up as well? It'd be just as ridiculous.

Our friend- a woman- supported her husband through school.

It didn't work out, they split, and because he wasn't working and she's the breadwinner, she strokes him a check every month.

It's awful.

[Sea Ray]

Two divorce reform bills. The latest one was just a month ago. Ended forever alimony, brought by a woman GOP in the statehouse...

It assumed equal custody.

A dream, really. Scott got cold feet, even though it was passed by Republicans.

It probably went overboard but good God, people don't need to be supported forever.

Alimony and child support are different animals. Custody would only have to do with child support.

[Dom Heffner]

Alimony and child support are different animals. Custody would only have to do with child support.

They were adressing the whole nine yards. I know they are different.

Forever alimony was to be a thing of the past.

For custody, they automatically start at 50-50 time.

It was a pretty radical departure from what we have now.

[Assembly Hall]

Alimony and child support are different animals.

They are supposed to be, but a lot of times they over lap. Meaning you are supposed be paying for your kid, but the ex spends it on herself.

[Roy Tucker]

She is stressed about everything and redirects everything at me. I can do nothing right, basically. Just not a happy marriage whatsoever. I don't see it getting better.

Just my $.02.

Stay married. I know it's awful now and you see no reason to stay married and a thousand reasons to split. But don't. If she doesn't want to talk or make it better, then concentrate on yourself and make yourself and the home for your child better.

It will be really hard to do and it will really suck. But getting divorced will be worse. She'll still have all her issues and your child will be exposed to that more than if you were there to ameliorate it and make it better. And eventually, I can't say when, your wife will start to see the example you're setting.

I've been through a marriage and a bad divorce. And I'm 31 years into my second marriage and I've had times like yours in this one. But I hung in there. I'd been through a divorce and and knew how *bad* it sucks. Because it really did. There are many Roy stories peppered through these threads of broken hearts, police cruisers, drunken blackouts, dropping the boyfriend with one punch, assault charges, glasses thrown against the floor, stern judges, and all kinds of fun stuff.

So stay together. Breaking up won't solve anything. Unfortunately, you're being presented with 2 alternatives and both suck bad. Pick the one that might have a happy ending.

All just my opinion without knowing your facts and feel free to tell me to lids up a rope.

[Sea Ray]

They are supposed to be, but a lot of times they over lap. Meaning you are supposed be paying for your kid, but the ex spends it on herself.

No doubt. In fact I'd say that's often the case.

I guess my issue is that there's a lot more incentive for the Dad to stay married than the Mom. If the divorce happens, the Mom gets the kid, a free weekend every two weeks and a check every month. The Dad loses his kid except for every other weekend and has to part with a lot of hard earned money. The story gets even better for the wife who's screwing around. She pays no price for her infidelity and she'll often get extras, monetary and otherwise from the new boyfriend.

My wife and I have a relationship where we can joke about this kind of stuff and I'll talk about infidelity on my part and she'll just fire back: "go for it. I'll take the kid, the house and half your business. It'll cost you." There's no such disincentive for her. She could do the same thing and she'd still end up with all of the above.

It's a screwed up system.

[Rojo]

They were adressing the whole nine yards. I know they are different.

I'd say that's a tactical mistake. Child support is trickier because you need to put the kids first. If a decision is unfair to one of the parents, so be it if it's the best interest of the kids. I'm not saying there's no room for reform -- just that it should tackled separately from alimony.

Alimony, otoh, should be facing an existential crisis. The whole idea is rooted in a world where women didn't have many career options and society wanted to punish men who left their families (it was assumed women didn't want to leave a marriage). I can see some alimony in situations where someone is supported through school or something. But, mostly, it should just go away.

[Sea Ray]

I'd say that's a tactical mistake. Child support is trickier because you need to put the kids first. If a decision is unfair to one of the parents, so be it if it's the best interest of the kids. I'm not saying there's no room for reform -- just that it should tackled separately from alimony.

Alimony, otoh, should be facing an existential crisis. The whole idea is rooted in a world where women didn't have many career options and society wanted to punish men who left their families (it was assumed women didn't want to leave a marriage). I can see some alimony in situations where someone is supported through school or something. But, mostly, it should just go away.

The problem with child support is that it's a check written to the ex spouse. It can and does get spent on everything. It's not like it goes into escrow where either spouse can pull money out for kids' defined expenses. It should work kind of like a health savings acct

[Rojo]

The problem with child support is that it's a check written to the ex spouse. It can and does get spent on everything. It's not like it goes into escrow where either spouse can pull money out for kids' defined expenses. It should work kind of like a health savings acct

Do you bureaucrats scrutinizing every expenditure? We have a good idea how much kids cost. We can establish a baseline for a good upbringing.

[Redsfaithful]

The problem with child support is that it's a check written to the ex spouse. It can and does get spent on everything. It's not like it goes into escrow where either spouse can pull money out for kids' defined expenses. It should work kind of like a health savings acct

I mean, money's fungible. It doesn't really matter if the child support goes to groceries or rent or whatever else, so long as the kid is getting what they need.

[Assembly Hall]

I mean, money's fungible. It doesn't really matter if the child support goes to groceries or rent or whatever else, so long as the kid is getting what they need.

And that is the "rub".

[Sea Ray]

I mean, money's fungible. It doesn't really matter if the child support goes to groceries or rent or whatever else, so long as the kid is getting what they need.

It's not about what they need. In fact that has little to do with it. It's about what the ex spouse can afford. Child support from Tiger Woods is going to be much different than child support from one of us around here. In fact is the ex spouse's income goes up, child support will likely also be increased because the courts don't want one parent's place to be significantly nicer than the other's.

It is crazy. I'm glad I've never had to make a payment to an ex-wife.

[Redsfaithful]

It's not about what they need. In fact that has little to do with it. It's about what the ex spouse can afford. Child support from Tiger Woods is going to be much different than child support from one of us around here. In fact is the ex spouse's income goes up, child support will likely also be increased because the courts don't want one parent's place to be significantly nicer than the other's.

It is crazy. I'm glad I've never had to make a payment to an ex-wife.

I'm still not seeing the problem, the child's quality of life shouldn't suffer because the dad has earning power the mother doesn't and he lives with mom. Pretty basic common sense.

[Sea Ray]

I'm still not seeing the problem, the child's quality of life shouldn't suffer because the dad has earning power the mother doesn't and he lives with mom. Pretty basic common sense.

That's the thinking that goes into such laws. The problem is your assumption that bigger checks to the Mom positively affect the child's quality of life. These are no strings attached checks. The Dad has no control over how the money's spent. Also Dad's who have had their income cut for whatever reason can attest to the fact that it's quite difficult to get those child support checks cut.

[dabvu2498]

FWIW, in Ohio there's a child support calculator that determines the amount of child support due in each case. There are sample calculators out there that will give you an approximation if you so desire. (Spousal support is an entirely different animal. Presiding judges seem have certain guidelines, but also have a lot of individual discretion.)

Also, if you feel that the custodial parent is "wasting" child support payments (and can prove it), you can revisit custody. And in some cases, it might only take a couple months of decreased (or no) payments to recoup legal fees.

[Redsfaithful]

That's the thinking that goes into such laws. The problem is your assumption that bigger checks to the Mom positively affect the child's quality of life. These are no strings attached checks. The Dad has no control over how the money's spent. Also Dad's who have had their income cut for whatever reason can attest to the fact that it's quite difficult to get those child support checks cut.

What strings would you attach? How would you enforce? How do you account for wanting to do this when there are so many men who don't pay child support at all?

I think most men who complain about this kind of thing are kind of shortsighted because of bitterness, or just losers to be honest, but I'm open to new perspectives.

[dougdirt]

What strings would you attach? How would you enforce? How do you account for wanting to do this when there are so many men who don't pay child support at all?

I think most men who complain about this kind of thing are kind of shortsighted because of bitterness, or just losers to be honest, but I'm open to new perspectives.

IS the kid getting food/clothes/shelter/medical? If so, I don't care how the money coming in from dad/mom is spent by the other party - just as long as whoever is spending it provides those things for the child. At the end of the day non-custodial parent's money going to custodial parents money is going into one fund - the one for the custodial parent. If they are providing, does it matter exactly where that money came from?

But maybe I'm just completely missing something here.

[Assembly Hall]

I think most men who complain about this kind of thing are kind of shortsighted because of bitterness, or just losers to be honest, but I'm open to new perspectives.

Come on up here to northern Indiana 20 years ago.......and put my shoes on. Have you been divorced before?

[Dom Heffner]

What strings would you attach? How would you enforce? How do you account for wanting to do this when there are so many men who don't pay child support at all?

I think most men who complain about this kind of thing are kind of shortsighted because of bitterness, or just losers to be honest, but I'm open to new perspectives.

You've talked about your income on here before...

You would get killed. Killed.

Just writing checks because you have it and while you sound okay about it now, I'm not sure how'd you be if it happened to you.

[Redsfaithful]

You've talked about your income on here before...

You would get killed. Killed.

Just writing checks because you have it and while you sound okay about it now, I'm not sure how'd you be if it happened to you.

I have maybe a weird mindset and attitude about money, sometimes it gets me in trouble, in this case I think it would help.

Easy come, easy go, you can always make more is how I've always approached money.

I assume in a divorce I'd lose half of assets, half of income until kids were grown, and would owe alimony after that. I think that's pretty fair, even if she were in the wrong (fairly rare that only one party is in the wrong though, even if it seems that way. Usually if it's all one person's fault it's because of drugs/alcohol/some other addiction/mental illness.)

[Dom Heffner]

I have maybe a weird mindset and attitude about money, sometimes it gets me in trouble, in this case I think it would help.

Easy come, easy go, you can always make more is how I've always approached money.

I assume in a divorce I'd lose half of assets, half of income until kids were grown, and would owe alimony after that. I think that's pretty fair, even if she were in the wrong (fairly rare that only one party is in the wrong though, even if it seems that way. Usually if it's all one person's fault it's because of drugs/alcohol/some other addiction/mental illness.)

Probably the best attitude to have.

[Sea Ray]

What strings would you attach? How would you enforce? How do you account for wanting to do this when there are so many men who don't pay child support at all?

I think most men who complain about this kind of thing are kind of shortsighted because of bitterness, or just losers to be honest, but I'm open to new perspectives.

I would put it into a joint account, kind of like an HSA. Withdrawals have to be kid related.

[Sea Ray]

I have maybe a weird mindset and attitude about money, sometimes it gets me in trouble, in this case I think it would help.

Easy come, easy go, you can always make more is how I've always approached money.

I assume in a divorce I'd lose half of assets, half of income until kids were grown, and would owe alimony after that. I think that's pretty fair, even if she were in the wrong (fairly rare that only one party is in the wrong though, even if it seems that way. Usually if it's all one person's fault it's because of drugs/alcohol/some other addiction/mental illness.)

I think a lot of divorces are due to infidelity and that means that one party led to the end of the marriage.

[Dom Heffner]

I think a lot of divorces are due to infidelity and that means that one party led to the end of the marriage.

Right but what led to infidelity?

I had a girlfriend who wouldn't have sex with me for weeks on end.

It's not always that simple. My mother had an affair, my dad also stayed out until all hours of the night drinking with his friends. It is often everybody's fault.

Your partner's happiness is somewhat your responsibility, at least in areas where a partner is needed.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think a lot of divorces are due to infidelity and that means that one party led to the end of the marriage.

Often times a person ends up cheating because of reasons other then just wanting to have sex outside of marriage. Sometimes it is black and white, but there is usually something else going on that leads to the affair.

My aunt cheated on my uncle, for example, because of how terrible of a husband he was. He even admitted this after the divorce. Sure, some people just want to have sexual relations out of marriage, but many times there is something else going on in the marriage that leads to it.

I am sure you will say "Well, she should have just ended it instead of having an affair." That is probably partially true, but, people are human and they do things for reasons that don't always make sense.

[Larry Schuler]

Isn't it the woman's duty to stay in the relationship until the man says she can leave though? Instead, she ruins everything by getting a divorce and takes all the man's money!

[Dom Heffner]

Isn't it the woman's duty to stay in the relationship until the man says she can leave though? Instead, she ruins everything by getting a divorce and takes all the man's money!

1975 is calling....hello, 1975....

[Dom Heffner]

I would put it into a joint account, kind of like an HSA. Withdrawals have to be kid related.

I hear you, how do you put money into an HSA for the extra bedroom the person has to provide in their house?

The taxes for the added value to the property?

I have no problem with it going into their own account. If the kid is being supported, they deserve the money.

What gets me is permanent alimony. Nobody should be stroking checks to anyone for life.

[Sea Ray]

Right but what led to infidelity?

I had a girlfriend who wouldn't have sex with me for weeks on end.

It's not always that simple. My mother had an affair, my dad also stayed out until all hours of the night drinking with his friends. It is often everybody's fault.

Your partner's happiness is somewhat your responsibility, at least in areas where a partner is needed.

You're correct that sometimes it involves two guilty parties but my point is that once one person checks out of the marriage, it's over. It doesn't matter what the other one thinks or does. As for your girlfriend there are too many possibilities to imagine but I wouldn't try to make comparisons to married people.

[Sea Ray]

Often times a person ends up cheating because of reasons other then just wanting to have sex outside of marriage. Sometimes it is black and white, but there is usually something else going on that leads to the affair.

My aunt cheated on my uncle, for example, because of how terrible of a husband he was. He even admitted this after the divorce. Sure, some people just want to have sexual relations out of marriage, but many times there is something else going on in the marriage that leads to it.

I am sure you will say "Well, she should have just ended it instead of having an affair." That is probably partially true, but, people are human and they do things for reasons that don't always make sense.

I get that there are examples of where the cheated on spouse bears some responsibility. Do you get that sometimes there is no responsibility? Like in Tiger Woods' case where he admitted that he screwed around because he felt he was "entitled"?

[Sea Ray]

I hear you, how do you put money into an HSA for the extra bedroom the person has to provide in their house?

The taxes for the added value to the property?

I have no problem with it going into their own account. If the kid is being supported, they deserve the money.

What gets me is permanent alimony. Nobody should be stroking checks to anyone for life.

Those are legitimate expenses. Others not so much

[Assembly Hall]

Often times a person ends up cheating because of reasons other then just wanting to have sex outside of marriage. Sometimes it is black and white, but there is usually something else going on that leads to the affair.

My aunt cheated on my uncle, for example, because of how terrible of a husband he was. He even admitted this after the divorce. Sure, some people just want to have sexual relations out of marriage, but many times there is something else going on in the marriage that leads to it.

I am sure you will say "Well, she should have just ended it instead of having an affair." That is probably partially true, but, people are human and they do things for reasons that don't always make sense.

My ex cheated on me. My good paying job took me away for weeks at a time. She loved the money I was making, but I wasnt around to fulfill her needs. My fault for not quitting my job and getting one where I could be home every night. Funny thing is......she knew what I did going into the marriage.

[RedTeamGo!]

My ex cheated on me. My good paying job took me away for weeks at a time. She loved the money I was making, but I wasnt around to fulfill her needs. My fault for not quitting my job and getting one where I could be home every night. Funny thing is......she knew what I did going into the marriage.

I hope you didn't take what I said to mean if one spouse cheats its the fault of the other spouse.

Every situation is different.

[RedTeamGo!]

I get that there are examples of where the cheated on spouse bears some responsibility. Do you get that sometimes there is no responsibility? Like in Tiger Woods' case where he admitted that he screwed around because he felt he was "entitled"?

I get that, I made the point not all affairs are created equally. You stated if there was infidelity the cheating party was the reason for the divorce.

[Sea Ray]

I get that, I made the point not all affairs are created equally. You stated if there was infidelity the cheating party was the reason for the divorce.

Of course nothing is 100%. There are reasons but infidelity shows a lack of commitment to the relationship and that dooms a marriage. Very few marriages involve both parties "checking out" of the marriage at the same time.

[RedTeamGo!]

Very few marriages involve both parties "checking out" of the marriage at the same time.

I disagree with this. I think in many cases, both parties have checked out of a marriage, it is just more common for only one to admit it.

[Sea Ray]

I disagree with this. I think in many cases, both parties have checked out of a marriage, it is just more common for only one to admit it.

Take it from a guy who's been there...I went through counseling etc and basically it boiled down to she wanted to screw around while she was still attractive to men. That was 30 yrs ago. Fast forward to day...A few months ago she married her 4th husband. No marriage lasted longer than 7 yrs.

If it were usually two people counseling would work more often. But the reality is that one person wants out and the other doesn't. I don't know about you but when I hear that a couple is separated, I'm fairly confident that the marriage is over. Occasionally they'll be reunited and live happily ever after but not generally.

In your situation you're willing to do counseling but my guess is your wife probably isn't. If that's the case then is the issue her or you?

[Assembly Hall]

I hope you didn't take what I said to mean if one spouse cheats its the fault of the other spouse.

Every situation is different.

Are you not the one that started this thread? Are you not the one that was asking how a divorce worked? I think you used the word logistics? You ask for advice and then seem to have formulated your own opinions. To be honest, I am puzzled.

[Larry Schuler]

I am also disappointed that RedTeamGo has formulated his own opinions.

Were mine not good enough for you??? You had to go and make your own mind up???

[RedTeamGo!]

Are you not the one that started this thread? Are you not the one that was asking how a divorce worked? I think you used the word logistics? You ask for advice and then seem to have formulated your own opinions. To be honest, I am puzzled.

Yes, I did, and I really appreciate you sharing your story and experience.

This thread seems to have turned into a thread about the subject of divorce, and I was not talking about myself with regard to affairs.

I don't know why you are puzzled.

[Assembly Hall]

Yes, I did, and I really appreciate you sharing your story and experience.

This thread seems to have turned into a thread about the subject of divorce, and I was not talking about myself with regard to affairs.

I don't know why you are puzzled.

Geez, look at the thread title. The thread has turned into talking about divorce? OMG.

[RedTeamGo!]

Geez, look at the thread title. The thread has turned into talking about divorce? OMG.

Yes, I wasn't complaining. I was simply talking about the subject.

I don't understand why you are getting upset. I apologize if I offended you.

[Assembly Hall]

Yes, I wasn't complaining. I was simply talking about the subject.

I don't understand why you are getting upset. I apologize if I offended you.

I am not upset. And there is no apology required. My take is you started the thread and then you formulated your own personal diagnosis about every thing that was being said. Everyone here is trying to tell you it aint easy. Yes, every situation is different and so are the consequences that come with going through the big "D". I aint no damn therapist, but I am speaking from experience.

[Sea Ray]

RTG, my point in giving you my experience is to keep in mind that if your wife is not interested in keeping this marriage together then it doesn't matter what you think or do. The marriage is over. That's what I mean by it only takes one to end a marriage.

Signs that your wife is not interested in saving your marriage:

--She won't listen to your concerns (such as "get off my case")
--She won't go to counseling
--She's more interested in herself than you or the marriage
--She's not willing to change

[westofyou]

I've been married for 18 years, I lived with my wife for 7 years before that, I dated my wife for 5 years before that.

One thing I can tell you is everything is relevant. Ask a guy list about divorce get one answer, ask a list with numerous women get another.

There is no way there is an easy answer, you are in a unique situation, namely because it's about your life.

No one is wrong, no one is right, your wife isn't any of the guys offering their opinions wives.

You won't ever get YOUR answer here. You'll get opinions based on other people's experiences, it can't match yours.. that's ok.

When you think about life do you see yourself alone at the end of the day?

If so then you shouldn't be married, only you know that.

As for the financials involved in that decision?

Ask a lawyer, you'll feel better


No Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RedTeamGo!]

I've been married for 18 years, I lived with my wife for 7 years before that, I dated my wife for 5 years before that.

One thing I can tell you is everything is relevant. Ask a guy list about divorce get one answer, ask a list with numerous women get another.

There is no way there is an easy answer, you are in a unique situation, namely because it's about your life.

No one is wrong, no one is right, your wife isn't any of the guys offering their opinions wives.

You won't ever get YOUR answer here. You'll get opinions based on other people's experiences, it can't match yours.. that's ok.

When you think about life do you see yourself alone at the end of the day?

If so then you shouldn't be married, only you know that.

As for the financials involved in that decision?

Ask a lawyer, you'll feel better


No Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I certainly wasn't asking if I should get divorced. I was moreso curious about the logistics of divorce. How much a lawyer costs, alimony, how long it will take, etc.

[sdwagers]

fantastic advice here .

http://www.daveramsey.com/blog/four-things-to-talk-about-before-marriage/

[Boston Red]

I generally think Dave Ramsey is TURRIBLE, but that's actually not bad. Maybe a bit obvious, but those are definitely four of the biggest issues one faces in a marriage. The in-laws piece may be the least obvious one, and it's pretty huge.

[Assembly Hall]

Yeah, I certainly wasn't asking if I should get divorced. I was moreso curious about the logistics of divorce. How much a lawyer costs, alimony, how long it will take, etc.

Only you know if you want a divorce or not. That point is moot. And if your wife wants one, then you aint gonna have much say. All that stuff aside, dont worry about the "logistics" of it. I would be more concerned about how your mental and physical health is going to be. And once again everybody is different as to how they react. And never ever forget about that kid.

[goreds2]

Only you know if you want a divorce or not. That point is moot. And if your wife wants one, then you aint gonna have much say. All that stuff aside, dont worry about the "logistics" of it. I would be more concerned about how your mental and physical health is going to be. And once again everybody is different as to how they react. And never ever forget about that kid. And do not start dating again until about 6 months to a year after the divorce or separation. That is what I did.

Having a contest with the ex-wife on who can get a lover first will really damage the kid in my opinion. It is like the kid will be on the sideline. You will also need a chance to breath with not having to deal with a relationship anyway. It did wonders for me!

In six months to a year, your kid will actually take interest on who you are dating. This is in my opinion.

[WrongVerb]

And do not start dating again until about 6 months to a year after the divorce or separation. That is what I did.

Having a contest with the ex-wife on who can get a lover first will really damage the kid in my opinion. It is like the kid will be on the sideline. You will also need a chance to breath with not having to deal with a relationship anyway. It did wonders for me!

In six months to a year, your kid will actually take interest on who you are dating. This is in my opinion.

Allowing time to properly grieve the loss of the relationship is good too. The grieving process is important and it is underestimated by a lot of people.

[Assembly Hall]

Allowing time to properly grieve the loss of the relationship is good too. The grieving process is important and it is underestimated by a lot of people.

Amen...................but what you call grieving I call soul searching.

[vaticanplum]

Here's my "logistical" advice, which you can take or leave: I would not make such a drastic decision about your relationship when you're so close to having your first child. You're readjusting to...an event doesn't even seem to do it justice, you're readjusting to the biggest life shift you will probably ever have, one that impacts every logistical area of your life, including your relationship with your wife. Not to mention all the emotional changes that come along with that. Also, going through a divorce while caring for a newborn to me sounds like the greatest hell on earth. That's my opinion, but good Christ on a bike, I have a hard time imagining coming out of that not reaaallly hating the other person.

In fact, I think it's good that you're aware of the problems in your relationship right now, rather than blowing it off as post-baby normalcy. It means that, should you choose, you can continue to maneuver through this year or so in which almost everything is centered around the baby with one eye still on the unhappiness that you're feeling and what you might want to do to change it. You may in fact come out the other side believing the marriage is unsalvageable. But you may also come out with some very clear-headed ideas that have been given months to formulate regarding why it might be worth working on things and specifics about where you want things to change. Specifics are good. Specifics are the best.

I echo all those who say that more efforts at counseling should be pursued. You say your wife has balked at it since she "already says everything that's on her mind," but saying what's on your mind is one of a bajillion aspects of counseling. You could point out that it could help you both listen better, understand where each other is coming from better, all kinds of things. If she doesn't already, make sure she knows how strongly you're feeling about the state of your marriage, up to and including serious consideration of divorce. Sometimes that needs to be very plainly spelled out for people before they realize viscerally how unhappy others are, and you'd be surprised how oblivious others can be to something you're feeling so strongly...ESPECIALLY with a newborn drawing attention. She deserves to know, also.

[vaticanplum]

On an entirely unrelated note.....
I would very much encourage you to go talk to a counselor with or without your wife. You are asking strangers on an internet message board for a reality check and advice and that's great. I do it all the time. But a professional trained in the ways of your state who can look you in the eye and give unbiased advice would be a really, really, really good thing for you to have.

I've been going through "life events." Simply deciding to talk to a counselor removed physical weight off my shoulders. Actually talking to the counselor and hearing her say..."Damn, it sucks to be you. No wonder you are upset." (Well, not those words, but the counseling equivalent of those words) removed a ton of self doubt from my life. I'm a fan.

My gramma just went to therapy for the first time. She's 88, and a marvel. She sounds like a new woman.

[goreds2]

I know some on here have gone through divorce.

I have recently been thinking about it. Not sure if you can refer to my marriage as a marriage anymore. Not going to go into specifics.

I am mostly curious about the logistics of the whole thing. How does it work? Is it as terrible of a process as I am imagining? What is the first step? How much should I expect this to cost me?

Thanks If you can agree on everything from the beginning which my ex and I did, it cost us $500 online. LegalZoom.com was great. They made adjustments to the agreement when needed etc.

[RiverRat13]

If you can agree on everything from the beginning which my ex and I did, it cost us $500 online. LegalZoom.com was great. They made adjustments to the agreement when needed etc.

If he files for divorce less than a year after having their first baby, I'm going to go ahead and guess that there won't be much agreeing going on.

[Cooper]

If you have a child.....get a lawyer ...issues are much more intense (as they should be).

If you do not have a child-seek mediation as a first step.

Once you have jumped the shark ....have very limited to the point conversations- the conversations should be about logistics. If you don't have a child- do not communicate for 4 to 6 months. If you do have conversations -they will turn in to a form of score keeping and no one wins that battle.

This my opinion about how i would face things -your path may be way different... with that in mind....If I had a kid -i'd ride it out --every guy I talked to- who's been thru the 1st childbirth- talks about changing dynamics and how difficult that is. Get a friend and go out for coffee and tell him how you want to pull your teeth out -then go home and talk about "team"-- you're making a kid...maybe a future Red. You have the rest of your life to get a divorce:)

[bounty37h]

I generally think Dave Ramsey is TURRIBLE, but that's actually not bad. Maybe a bit obvious, but those are definitely four of the biggest issues one faces in a marriage. The in-laws piece may be the least obvious one, and it's pretty huge.

In-laws are a huge piece. If I had met and spent more time with my in-laws early on I don't know that I would have continued dating my wife long enough to get to the marriage point. I can handle it now and am fine, but too early on would have likely scared me off.

[RedTeamGo!]

In-laws are a huge piece. If I had met and spent more time with my in-laws early on I don't know that I would have continued dating my wife long enough to get to the marriage point. I can handle it now and am fine, but too early on would have likely scared me off.

My in-laws are really nice people and very helpful.

With that said, my wife is soooooo close to them. Which is great, but whenever she has problems she RUNS to her parents. It is the kind of relationship where she always goes to her parents before me when faced with adversity. It is almost like my opinion doesn't matter at all. Has always kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

I think this has hurt our relationship because it has prevented us from being more of a team, if that makes sense. I see my friends and their get through life together, and I feel like my wife and her parents get through their lives together and I am kind of an outsider.

[Assembly Hall]

My in-laws are really nice people and very helpful.

With that said, my wife is soooooo close to them. Which is great, but whenever she has problems she RUNS to her parents. It is the kind of relationship where she always goes to her parents before me when faced with adversity. It is almost like my opinion doesn't matter at all. Has always kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

I think this has hurt our relationship because it has prevented us from being more of a team, if that makes sense. I see my friends and their get through life together, and I feel like my wife and her parents get through their lives together and I am kind of an outsider.

I hear ya man. It can be a very slippery slope to navigate. My first wife was the exact same way. It always bothered me.

[Cooper]

If it upsets you ....then tell her that it hurts your feelings ....it's ok to have a feeling hurt -women feel like you care when you can emote your feelings to them....they eat that stuff up- you can say "hey, -let's build OUR relationship 1st and then if we can't figure it out -we'll go to your parents and ask for advice"....when she goes to parents before she goes to you --remind her but don't catch her --just say "let's do this together"....(keep in mind -you should offer do the same on your end).

[goreds2]

Did you mean to post a link?

[RedTeamGo!]

Click on the word article

[Playadlc]

Sad bump.

Welp, after 13 years of marriage my wife wants a divorce. We have been down this road before and came out the other side, but it looks to be over now. Thankfully we don’t have kids.

I’m wondering if anyone in a similar position has had success with individual therapy? Looking for ways to improve myself and stay sane during this difficult time.

[Bob Sheed]

Sad bump.

Welp, after 13 years of marriage my wife wants a divorce. We have been down this road before and came out the other side, but it looks to be over now. Thankfully we don’t have kids.

I’m wondering if anyone in a similar position has had success with individual therapy? Looking for ways to improve myself and stay sane during this difficult time.

Congratulations on starting a new chapter in life. No kids, so you have the added benefit of not damaging anyone else.

Lawyer up.
Delete Facebook
Start strength and cardio. (Formerly "hit the gym")

And finally, Bill Burr:

https://imgur.com/0Y2u4Xb


Realize that sleeping on a futon when you're 30 is not the worst thing. You know what's worse, sleeping in a king bed next to a wife you're not really in love with but for some reason you married, and you got a couple kids, and you got a job you hate. You'll be laying there fantasizing about sleeping on a futon. There's no risk when you go after a dream. There's a tremendous amount to risk to playing it safe.

[RedTeamGo!]

Sad bump.

Welp, after 13 years of marriage my wife wants a divorce. We have been down this road before and came out the other side, but it looks to be over now. Thankfully we don’t have kids.

I’m wondering if anyone in a similar position has had success with individual therapy? Looking for ways to improve myself and stay sane during this difficult time.

I hate to hear this. However, I want to echo Bob: the fact you don’t have kids will allow you to go out and do things you couldn’t or wouldn’t do while married.

As an aside: this was quite the thread for me to read 4 years after the fact, as I started it.

An update if anyone cares: my wife and I still have issues here and there, but we are in a much better place and now have two kids. I guess RF was right about the little kids being a big stressor.

[Playadlc]

Congratulations on starting a new chapter in life. No kids, so you have the added benefit of not damaging anyone else.

Lawyer up.
Delete Facebook
Start strength and cardio. (Formerly "hit the gym")

And finally, Bill Burr:

https://imgur.com/0Y2u4Xb

Thanks. Starting over at 40 is a bit scary. It feels like I’m closing the door on a life with kids, but this is helpful.

[Boston Red]

It feels like I’m closing the door on a life with kids, but this is helpful.

Not if you're into younger women. I know plenty of men on their "second family" who had children well into their 40s (and sometimes 50s).

[KoryMac5]

Divorce sucks I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy...

Married in 2000 divorced by 2002

Remarried in 2005 and still rocking 15 years later....my wife likes to say I was broken in when we found each other.

I found a great counselor and we went to work on me and my growth.

You will have some awful days and some good ones too...manage the awful ones by being kind to yourself and finding good coping skills.

I will say my current marriage and the person I am today, is so much better than who I was in 2000. We are here to talk if you need us.

[RedsfaninMT]

Been there done that. For me, a therapist got me to understand that I was a good person and that when a relationship is in trouble, your partner will say some hurtful stuff.

I met a young lady (who remains a friend to this day) who got me to realize I was still desirable. It was weird at first, as her body felt different to what I was used to. Anyway, married 29 years in round 2, and we had our one child when we were both 41. Lots of my buddies married gals in there young 30s and started a family. The surgeon that will operate on my shoulder just had his 1st kid at 48. His wife is almost painfully beautiful.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sad bump.

Welp, after 13 years of marriage my wife wants a divorce. We have been down this road before and came out the other side, but it looks to be over now. Thankfully we don’t have kids.

I’m wondering if anyone in a similar position has had success with individual therapy? Looking for ways to improve myself and stay sane during this difficult time.

I got divorced five years ago, also with no kids. It sucks for a bit for sure. I did therapy five or six times. It was somewhat helpful, so I wouldn’t discourage you from it. Everyone is different and it’s obviously not cheap, but once you get to a point that you aren’t dwelling on the dark stuff you can probably handle it yourself.

You’re gonna have some bad days and that’s totally fine. You will be happier and that day will come sooner than you think. Find a couple things you like to do or have wanted to do and do them. I did a 6 month cooking school started doing yoga and went on a vacation by myself. There is no right answer other than just focusing on your own happiness.

I also found it helpful after a bit to figure out mistakes I made in the relationship and want I wanted in the future both for myself and in a relationship. Don’t do this on day 1, but at some point. Therapy can be good for this too.

Always happy to talk you through it and sounds like a few others here are too. Good luck.

[WrongVerb]

Make sure you allow yourself to grieve. And give yourself some grace for those times when your emotions get the best of you. After my first marriage ended, I spent nearly a year being depressed -- my finances and credit went to hell. I finally pulled myself out of it, though. One thing that helped was getting back to a social activity that I really enjoyed. I suggest the same for you. Don't do online gaming or anything...actually get out (on the other side of this pandemic) and interact with other humans. It's really helpful.

Oh, and definitely get a lawyer. Even if you think it's going to be amicable, you still want your own advocate looking over the paperwork and all that.

[Playadlc]

Thanks all. Greatly appreciate it. You guys are awesome. It's nice reading success stories after a divorce. Gives me hope.

I have found out during this process, it's only been about 4 days so far, the more I try and handle this situation with class and dignity, the better it makes me feel.

[forfreelin04]

Divorced with no kids here too. I feel ya! If you ever need any advice or want to chat, feel free to send me a DM.

I was with my ex wife for 11 years (5 married.) I was 31 when the divorce happened. My decision initially, and then after that it was mutual.

It was extremely difficult, but I acted like it wasn't. I was pretty numb to the fallout of it for a number of years. I echo the sentiments of other posters that going to counseling really helps. It allows you to express yourself in a safe place. I still go once a month. I'd recommend counseling/therapy to anyone.

I think the hardest part after the divorce was being treated like a pariah by many former friends (Some married and some not). When I needed them the most, they seemed to care more about not being infected by my divorce "itis" lol. I found it hard to make friends for a long time; something I prided myself on being good at in the past.

The aloneness you feel after a divorce is probably the worst thing of all. I would highly recommend getting a dog if you don't have one, and join some social clubs. It's been over 5 years now, and I still never regret it. I've made some awesome memories and have been blessed to be with some amazing women since. :thumbup:...the ladies won't care as much as you think!

Best of luck to you!

[WrongVerb]

blessed to be with some amazing women since. :thumbup:...the ladies won't care as much as you think!

I got laid way more after my divorce than before. Some were casual acquaintances, some were something more. I ended up marrying one of the "something mores" a few years ago. And it's so much better the 2nd time around, not making the mistakes I made in my first marriage.

[forfreelin04]

I got laid way more after my divorce than before. Some were casual acquaintances, some were something more. I ended up marrying one of the "something mores" a few years ago. And it's so much better the 2nd time around, not making the mistakes I made in my first marriage.

HAHA! Good to know! I'm with someone that feels like they could be that 2nd time around thing right now. Glad to hear it's going well for you!

[RedsfaninMT]

I got laid way more after my divorce than before. Some were casual acquaintances, some were something more. I ended up marrying one of the "something mores" a few years ago. And it's so much better the 2nd time around, not making the mistakes I made in my first marriage.

A word of caution...same for me for the 1st 25 years...non-existent now. We're friends and MS thankfully has obliterated my libido. To be fair to her, if I could perform worth a damn still, she'd take me up on it. She has always referred to my first as my "practice wife." I learned patience as a bachelor (and with age), which has served me well. I might still be married if I'd acted like this at 25...Nah

[redsfanmia]

I’m 21 years in and haven’t been happy for the most part of the last 18 years. I don’t know why I stay other than I don’t know how my wife would do if I left and I stupidly think she might return to the person she was when we first started dating and got married instead of the miserable joyless person she has turned into.

[Larry Schuler]

We have our first baby coming in the next month and reading through this thread put the fear of God in me. My wife and I are pretty lucky in general, as far as the timing of where we were in our lives when we met and the compatibility of our strengths and flaws, and we’ve made it through a miscarriage, 8 months (and counting) of a pandemic, a huge financial blow and 8 months of pregnancy (all within the last 12 months) while being closer than ever...ALL THAT SAID, I would be lying if I said the honesty and advice in this thread didn’t lead me to still have a serious, sincere talk with Mrs. Schuler about what ground rules and promises we want to make to each other during the hardest parts of the next phase of our lives. I appreciate the vulnerability and instinct to offer advice earned through experience. And I hope everyone early on in the thread is in a stronger place and everyone more recently finds more and more peace of mind creeping into their days. I’ve had my low points and tough times, mostly with potentially terminal illness, and I try to hold on to that memory of being in a dark, dark place and slowly seeing light creep back in over a long period of time until, one day, you wake up and realize there is now more light than dark and you can start thinking about the future with hope and excitement again. I know I’ll need that sense memory again someday and I feel like we all do, at several points in this thing.

[Wonderful Monds]

Not a divorce, but it’s something I’ve posted about here before a good amount in the past. I went through a pretty rough breakup a handful of years ago, and I’m still not over it. Turns out a had a pretty rough life as a child and some pretty bad issues family wise that were just normal business to me, but were actually really abusive and unhealthy. I developed PTSD after the breakup because it mirrored a lot of the abandonment stuff I went through as a kid. Or at least, I had PTSD lying dormant mentally, and that was the event that brought it out.

Anyway. I’ve been pretty messed up the last 5-6 years since it happened. I’ve tried really hard to move on. As hard as I’ve pushed myself to, I haven’t been able to have feelings for anyone or feel any sort of attraction to anyone since the breakup. I’ve felt pretty hopeless ever since about meeting anyone again, and as a result I’ve felt pretty hopeless about my own life.

That had changed recently when I reconnected with an old friend of mine, she was the first person I ever dated, briefly when I was first in college. We’ve always had an on again off again type friendship, and I’ve also always had a thing for her.

We’ve been hanging out a lot recently with some mutual friends, and my feelings for her started to come back. I started to feel hope again that there might be someone for me. I’ve been feeling pretty strongly about her lately, and I asked her to do some things with me 1 on 1, but she claimed she was busy and some other stuff. I was kind of getting the feeling that something might not be totally out in the open, so I was honest with her and told her I got the feeling something was up and if everything was cool.

And she confirmed it for me, she said she didn’t really want to hang out outside the group because I had feelings for her and it just didn’t seem like a good idea.

So I’m back to feeling pretty hopeless again.

Honestly, it’s really hard to understand what the point in hanging on is. I’m 30 and I’ve been in a relationship for 2 months of my life. I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life, my youth and the prime of life alone. There are so many things I wish I could’ve done and shared with a partner that I’ll never be able to do I can’t get that back.

I don’t really feel capable of feeling things for anyone else still. There’s just nothing there at all when I look at anyone else still. I don’t have any hope. I don’t really see what the point is.

[WrongVerb]

Not a divorce, but it’s something I’ve posted about here before a good amount in the past. I went through a pretty rough breakup a handful of years ago, and I’m still not over it. Turns out a had a pretty rough life as a child and some pretty bad issues family wise that were just normal business to me, but were actually really abusive and unhealthy. I developed PTSD after the breakup because it mirrored a lot of the abandonment stuff I went through as a kid. Or at least, I had PTSD lying dormant mentally, and that was the event that brought it out.

Anyway. I’ve been pretty messed up the last 5-6 years since it happened. I’ve tried really hard to move on. As hard as I’ve pushed myself to, I haven’t been able to have feelings for anyone or feel any sort of attraction to anyone since the breakup. I’ve felt pretty hopeless ever since about meeting anyone again, and as a result I’ve felt pretty hopeless about my own life.

That had changed recently when I reconnected with an old friend of mine, she was the first person I ever dated, briefly when I was first in college. We’ve always had an on again off again type friendship, and I’ve also always had a thing for her.

We’ve been hanging out a lot recently with some mutual friends, and my feelings for her started to come back. I started to feel hope again that there might be someone for me. I’ve been feeling pretty strongly about her lately, and I asked her to do some things with me 1 on 1, but she claimed she was busy and some other stuff. I was kind of getting the feeling that something might not be totally out in the open, so I was honest with her and told her I got the feeling something was up and if everything was cool.

And she confirmed it for me, she said she didn’t really want to hang out outside the group because I had feelings for her and it just didn’t seem like a good idea.

So I’m back to feeling pretty hopeless again.

Honestly, it’s really hard to understand what the point in hanging on is. I’m 30 and I’ve been in a relationship for 2 months of my life. I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life, my youth and the prime of life alone. There are so many things I wish I could’ve done and shared with a partner that I’ll never be able to do I can’t get that back.

I don’t really feel capable of feeling things for anyone else still. There’s just nothing there at all when I look at anyone else still. I don’t have any hope. I don’t really see what the point is.

Best advice I can give is quit focusing, with the hopes of winning them over, on the women to whom you're attracted. Instead, take that time and energy to make yourself an attractive person in all phases: looks (dress nicer and get professional grooming), personality (be direct and show backbone without being angry about it), and, most importantly, engage in activities that you find rewarding and allow you to show off a bit. And then, when women start finding you attractive, select from those.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Not a divorce, but it’s something I’ve posted about here before a good amount in the past. I went through a pretty rough breakup a handful of years ago, and I’m still not over it. Turns out a had a pretty rough life as a child and some pretty bad issues family wise that were just normal business to me, but were actually really abusive and unhealthy. I developed PTSD after the breakup because it mirrored a lot of the abandonment stuff I went through as a kid. Or at least, I had PTSD lying dormant mentally, and that was the event that brought it out.

Anyway. I’ve been pretty messed up the last 5-6 years since it happened. I’ve tried really hard to move on. As hard as I’ve pushed myself to, I haven’t been able to have feelings for anyone or feel any sort of attraction to anyone since the breakup. I’ve felt pretty hopeless ever since about meeting anyone again, and as a result I’ve felt pretty hopeless about my own life.

That had changed recently when I reconnected with an old friend of mine, she was the first person I ever dated, briefly when I was first in college. We’ve always had an on again off again type friendship, and I’ve also always had a thing for her.

We’ve been hanging out a lot recently with some mutual friends, and my feelings for her started to come back. I started to feel hope again that there might be someone for me. I’ve been feeling pretty strongly about her lately, and I asked her to do some things with me 1 on 1, but she claimed she was busy and some other stuff. I was kind of getting the feeling that something might not be totally out in the open, so I was honest with her and told her I got the feeling something was up and if everything was cool.

And she confirmed it for me, she said she didn’t really want to hang out outside the group because I had feelings for her and it just didn’t seem like a good idea.

So I’m back to feeling pretty hopeless again.

Honestly, it’s really hard to understand what the point in hanging on is. I’m 30 and I’ve been in a relationship for 2 months of my life. I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life, my youth and the prime of life alone. There are so many things I wish I could’ve done and shared with a partner that I’ll never be able to do I can’t get that back.

I don’t really feel capable of feeling things for anyone else still. There’s just nothing there at all when I look at anyone else still. I don’t have any hope. I don’t really see what the point is.

I totally get these feelings. WV touched on it, but just to expand, you have to find a way to not let a relationship define who you are. Being in a relationship can be very fulfilling and bring you happiness...but it can't be THE reason you are happy. You are happy because of who you are and what you bring to the table and your relationship enhances those characteristics.

I got very very down after my divorce and could have written what you just posted. You have to focus on yourself, doing what you like, making yourself happy and I promise it will work out for you.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I’m 21 years in and haven’t been happy for the most part of the last 18 years. I don’t know why I stay other than I don’t know how my wife would do if I left and I stupidly think she might return to the person she was when we first started dating and got married instead of the miserable joyless person she has turned into.

Have you talked to her about it? If you showed her what you just posted what would she say?

[Wonderful Monds]

I totally get these feelings. WV touched on it, but just to expand, you have to find a way to not let a relationship define who you are. Being in a relationship can be very fulfilling and bring you happiness...but it can't be THE reason you are happy. You are happy because of who you are and what you bring to the table and your relationship enhances those characteristics.

I got very very down after my divorce and could have written what you just posted. You have to focus on yourself, doing what you like, making yourself happy and I promise it will work out for you.

Yeah. I mean that’s never been my purpose in seeking a relationship. But considering the abuse and neglect I grew up with, I’ve basically lived alone my entire life. There are certain needs that can’t be met unless you have someone you can be close with, and the resulting depression from those needs not being met makes it really really hard to enjoy life at all, let alone enough to have hobbies and interests. And despite that, I do and I do have a pretty strong sense of identity.

It just feels like there’s something broken about me that makes it impossible for those I care about to care about me back. It feels pretty hard to hold on right now.

[Larry Schuler]

Not a divorce, but it’s something I’ve posted about here before a good amount in the past. I went through a pretty rough breakup a handful of years ago, and I’m still not over it. Turns out a had a pretty rough life as a child and some pretty bad issues family wise that were just normal business to me, but were actually really abusive and unhealthy. I developed PTSD after the breakup because it mirrored a lot of the abandonment stuff I went through as a kid. Or at least, I had PTSD lying dormant mentally, and that was the event that brought it out.

Anyway. I’ve been pretty messed up the last 5-6 years since it happened. I’ve tried really hard to move on. As hard as I’ve pushed myself to, I haven’t been able to have feelings for anyone or feel any sort of attraction to anyone since the breakup. I’ve felt pretty hopeless ever since about meeting anyone again, and as a result I’ve felt pretty hopeless about my own life.

That had changed recently when I reconnected with an old friend of mine, she was the first person I ever dated, briefly when I was first in college. We’ve always had an on again off again type friendship, and I’ve also always had a thing for her.

We’ve been hanging out a lot recently with some mutual friends, and my feelings for her started to come back. I started to feel hope again that there might be someone for me. I’ve been feeling pretty strongly about her lately, and I asked her to do some things with me 1 on 1, but she claimed she was busy and some other stuff. I was kind of getting the feeling that something might not be totally out in the open, so I was honest with her and told her I got the feeling something was up and if everything was cool.

And she confirmed it for me, she said she didn’t really want to hang out outside the group because I had feelings for her and it just didn’t seem like a good idea.

So I’m back to feeling pretty hopeless again.

Honestly, it’s really hard to understand what the point in hanging on is. I’m 30 and I’ve been in a relationship for 2 months of my life. I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life, my youth and the prime of life alone. There are so many things I wish I could’ve done and shared with a partner that I’ll never be able to do I can’t get that back.

I don’t really feel capable of feeling things for anyone else still. There’s just nothing there at all when I look at anyone else still. I don’t have any hope. I don’t really see what the point is.

Use this thought to your advantage, when it’s needed: nothing stays the same. Life is permanent, certain uncertainty and flux. You’ve also experienced all that heartbreak and sadness. It already happened. Unless you go back in time and make the exact same choices in the exact same order with the exact same people, those things in the past that hurt can not get you again. The present and future has way more question marks and possibilities than a human brain can reasonably visualize without short circuiting. Stick around and let some unexpected things happen to you that will shift your growing perspective and experience. You’re more likely to fall down an open man hole, get bit by a shark, or meet someone brand new that adds new words, colors, and memories to your life as you are to magically re-experience your first 15 years of relationships again for the next 15 years. It’d be a bummer if you never got to tell the story of falling into a sewer, fighting off a great white, or meeting someone who puts you at ease and lessens your attachment to the past. All that said, it’s totally OK to be angry, sad, depressed, and feel uncertain. Feel those and let those out. Don’t let toxic positivity add another layer of junk on top. But also take that breath. I’m 34 and I look back at 30 year old me and think he was a baby who had no idea what life was. I imagine we will all think that each time we look back at the age we were 5-10 years ago. Ok. I’ll pass the mic now. :)

[M2]

Not a divorce, but it’s something I’ve posted about here before a good amount in the past. I went through a pretty rough breakup a handful of years ago, and I’m still not over it. Turns out a had a pretty rough life as a child and some pretty bad issues family wise that were just normal business to me, but were actually really abusive and unhealthy. I developed PTSD after the breakup because it mirrored a lot of the abandonment stuff I went through as a kid. Or at least, I had PTSD lying dormant mentally, and that was the event that brought it out.

Anyway. I’ve been pretty messed up the last 5-6 years since it happened. I’ve tried really hard to move on. As hard as I’ve pushed myself to, I haven’t been able to have feelings for anyone or feel any sort of attraction to anyone since the breakup. I’ve felt pretty hopeless ever since about meeting anyone again, and as a result I’ve felt pretty hopeless about my own life.

That had changed recently when I reconnected with an old friend of mine, she was the first person I ever dated, briefly when I was first in college. We’ve always had an on again off again type friendship, and I’ve also always had a thing for her.

We’ve been hanging out a lot recently with some mutual friends, and my feelings for her started to come back. I started to feel hope again that there might be someone for me. I’ve been feeling pretty strongly about her lately, and I asked her to do some things with me 1 on 1, but she claimed she was busy and some other stuff. I was kind of getting the feeling that something might not be totally out in the open, so I was honest with her and told her I got the feeling something was up and if everything was cool.

And she confirmed it for me, she said she didn’t really want to hang out outside the group because I had feelings for her and it just didn’t seem like a good idea.

So I’m back to feeling pretty hopeless again.

Honestly, it’s really hard to understand what the point in hanging on is. I’m 30 and I’ve been in a relationship for 2 months of my life. I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life, my youth and the prime of life alone. There are so many things I wish I could’ve done and shared with a partner that I’ll never be able to do I can’t get that back.

I don’t really feel capable of feeling things for anyone else still. There’s just nothing there at all when I look at anyone else still. I don’t have any hope. I don’t really see what the point is.

My only advice is to do more living, and totally understand this is a terrible time for that. Yet focus on doing more of what you like, expand your horizons as much as you can. Be active and engaged. Basically, do a lot of stuff. You'll be happier and in better shape. You'll have more to talk about. You'll meet more people. The lesson I learned is falling in love is something you do along the way.

And don't judge yourself too harshly. Anything you wish you had done, you've still go plenty of time to do. The prime of your life is like a 60-year run.

[Rojo]

Will there be a Covid Baby Bust at the end of this?

[Rojo]

Basically, do a lot of stuff. You'll be happier and in better shape. You'll have more to talk about. You'll meet more people. The lesson I learned is falling in love is something you do along the way.

Like mask-wearing and Karen-ing. Join a social-distancing group, that's sure to lead to intimacy.

[BernieCarbo]

..........Honestly, it’s really hard to understand what the point in hanging on is. I’m 30 and I’ve been in a relationship for 2 months of my life. I feel like I’ve wasted my entire life, my youth and the prime of life alone. There are so many things I wish I could’ve done and shared with a partner that I’ll never be able to do I can’t get that back.........

I won't speak to the rest of what you said because I think you have some issues that you need to speak to a professional about or at least some friends that can deal frankly with you, but this part is simply wrong. 30? You're just a kid. I've known lot's of people that started over in their 50's and had kids and had a great life and don't regret anything. Trust me, I started over at 64 and I don't think about the past or what could have been.

[BernieCarbo]

I’m 21 years in and haven’t been happy for the most part of the last 18 years. I don’t know why I stay other than I don’t know how my wife would do if I left and I stupidly think she might return to the person she was when we first started dating and got married instead of the miserable joyless person she has turned into.

Look at a relationship like you would a mutual fund. Would you invest in it today or would you sell out and cut your losses? If you hold on, will you be happy with five cents on the dollar when you're 60? Who cares what she might become? Who knows, maybe she's hoping you make the first move. God, you only live once.

[M2]

Like mask-wearing and Karen-ing. Join a social-distancing group, that's sure to lead to intimacy.

That's funny, because I'm happily married for the past 24 years and you might as well join a monastery.

[Rojo]

That's funny, because I'm happily married for the past 24 years and you might as well join a monastery.

Then how do you explain the stupid?

[M2]

Then how do you explain the stupid?

I suppose "the stupid" is why you're going to continue to lead a solitary, bitter life.

[westofyou]

Then how do you explain the stupid?

Sorry, you don't get to hijack this thread because your pet project is the pandemic, that's just selfish and rude. Let this man speak to others about his life, take your issues with the pandemic to the other thread. Don't be a bore, be a mensch.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Yeah. I mean that’s never been my purpose in seeking a relationship. But considering the abuse and neglect I grew up with, I’ve basically lived alone my entire life. There are certain needs that can’t be met unless you have someone you can be close with, and the resulting depression from those needs not being met makes it really really hard to enjoy life at all, let alone enough to have hobbies and interests. And despite that, I do and I do have a pretty strong sense of identity.

It just feels like there’s something broken about me that makes it impossible for those I care about to care about me back. It feels pretty hard to hold on right now.

That’s tough man and the abandonment stuff is legit, but it’s great that you recognize it and you are working on it, that’s all you can do.

But you aren’t broken. Life is hard and relationships are hard. Just look at this thread. It’s a whole bunch of good people who thought they had it figured out at one point and it didn’t end up that way.

[RedTeamGo!]

We have our first baby coming in the next month and reading through this thread put the fear of God in me. My wife and I are pretty lucky in general, as far as the timing of where we were in our lives when we met and the compatibility of our strengths and flaws, and we’ve made it through a miscarriage, 8 months (and counting) of a pandemic, a huge financial blow and 8 months of pregnancy (all within the last 12 months) while being closer than ever...ALL THAT SAID, I would be lying if I said the honesty and advice in this thread didn’t lead me to still have a serious, sincere talk with Mrs. Schuler about what ground rules and promises we want to make to each other during the hardest parts of the next phase of our lives. I appreciate the vulnerability and instinct to offer advice earned through experience. And I hope everyone early on in the thread is in a stronger place and everyone more recently finds more and more peace of mind creeping into their days. I’ve had my low points and tough times, mostly with potentially terminal illness, and I try to hold on to that memory of being in a dark, dark place and slowly seeing light creep back in over a long period of time until, one day, you wake up and realize there is now more light than dark and you can start thinking about the future with hope and excitement again. I know I’ll need that sense memory again someday and I feel like we all do, at several points in this thing.

My wife and I had a miscarriage a few days before Christmas in 2017. Still hurts. My wife was a wreck for months over it. Our daughter that was born about 11 months later is just perfect. I am so excited for you to experience this part of life! Let us know if you ever have questions about being a dad. My first advice is that don’t get too stressed about being a good parent, as long as you care you are a good parent.

[Wonderful Monds]

I feel like I might have to check into a hospital or something this weekend. Going through this again with this person after a life filled with this **** is really mentally crushing me. I feel like I’m going to have a psychotic episode or something.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I feel like I might have to check into a hospital or something this weekend. Going through this again with this person after a life filled with this **** is really mentally crushing me. I feel like I’m going to have a psychotic episode or something.

Do you have a doctor or therapist that you are working with?

[Wonderful Monds]

Do you have a doctor or therapist that you are working with?

I do have a therapist, she’s been unavailable for the last couple weeks because she’s had covid actually.

[redsfanmia]

Have you talked to her about it? If you showed her what you just posted what would she say?

We have talked and she will be better this giving me hope. I had a health scare 2 years ago and she was acting like she couldn’t go on without me. I still love her, more for the person she was instead of the person she is.

[M2]

I feel like I might have to check into a hospital or something this weekend. Going through this again with this person after a life filled with this **** is really mentally crushing me. I feel like I’m going to have a psychotic episode or something.

Take care of yourself. If you think you need to get help, don't try to wait it out.

[RedsfaninMT]

Monds - I can't speak for anyone else. My divorce tore me to shreds ( In addition to stopping traffic on Montgomery road for 10 minutes, but that's another story). The only time I've ever considered suicide was when the person I valued most told me I had no value.

I will never listen to another human tell me such hurtful things. I've been married 29 years this go round. Times like this (losing my job) present new challenges. I know I'm a good man. My confidence in myself is part of what attracted my wife to me. Sounds silly, but you gotta love yourself before you can love someone else. Work on yourself first and somebody will fall hard for you, but if you lack confidence women will spot that miles away. Continue with counseling and try vigorous workouts every day. Getting rid of your anxiety and getting that endorphin rush does wonders. And for me it was my first step to recovery.

[Roy Tucker]

I have the advantage of having had both a bad marriage and a good marriage. The bad one was when we both were idiots and got married pretty much because we didn't know where else to go in the relationship after we got out of college. So we got married and the wheels started to almost immediately fall off. She met someone else, I got left behind, and I tried to numb the pain with way too much alcohol, Let me tell you that doesn't work. Gradually pulled myself out of pits of despair and repaired my life by making all the mistakes way too many times. What? you say? Sometimes I learn very slowly but I also do learn my lessons exceeding well after a while. I learned what I can put up with and what I can't and what are my deal-breakers. Unlike before, I knew what I wanted and what I didn't want. Experienced single life with all of ups and downs and freedoms and thoroughly mined that vein. Finally met a smart and pretty young woman and had the sense to know that she was a keeper and this was my second opportunity and don’t blow it. Married her 35 years ago and we are still together after raising 3 children from birth to adulthood, college, and marriage (and now one divorce as of last night). It hasn't always been easy, we've had good stretches and bad stretches, but we were always devoted to each other and to making it work out. I had the advantage of knowing what divorce was like and knowing what a bad relationship was like. And the spousal unit and I never had that level of bad. I didn't always like her but I always have loved her. We've gone from girlfriend/boyfriend, young childless married, married with young children, married with butthead teens, married with "hey, maybe mom and dad weren't so stupid" college kids, married with marrying off our children, and married with grandchildren. But through it all, my wife was always the one I wanted to spend my time with. I can't imagine my life without her. I finally got lucky.

[Redsfaithful]

It just feels like there’s something broken about me that makes it impossible for those I care about to care about me back.

Nah, as a baseball fan you're familiar with the concept of small sample size. It applies to more than just sports. Having sons I actually worry about this a little - I know several men who never really launched in life at least partially because of just one or two poor relationships or experiences with unrequited feelings. That's just not many people to base anything on.s

I had a rough go of it as a kid also with family, and it's been interesting over the years to really uncover what that means and how it effects a person in life. It's a profound thing, but, paradoxically almost, it also only has as much power as we give it. And it's a weird thing in that it almost has nothing to do with you (us). Having cruddy parents is 100% about them. You should never feel like you were unlovable or rejected or that it had anything to do with you at all.

Also, adding to the chorus here - 30 is so young. I'm not even into my 40s yet (almost!) and 30 still seems impossibly young already.

Finally, this might not feel relevant right now because it sounds like you're dealing with some anhedonia, but I'll say this too, because I see it all the time. Just wait a few years if you're still single - I don't think you will be honestly, but if you are - you'll be able to take a new woman home every night if you wanted to off of Tinder or whatever. I know so many divorced women who are very smart, very attractive, and very sad at the limited dating pool available.

None of this is easy with coronavirus, I really can't imagine. Sending good vibes your way (and to anyone else having a hard time with this stuff .)


I feel like I might have to check into a hospital or something this weekend. Going through this again with this person after a life filled with this **** is really mentally crushing me. I feel like I’m going to have a psychotic episode or something.

Listen to yourself and take care of yourself. No shame in doing that if you need to. It's a good thing that you're in touch with how you're feeling. That's a good foundation to build from once you are doing better.

[Wonderful Monds]

I appreciate all the thoughtful and substantive comments and input on my situation here, sincerely thank you all.

And not to be make light of those things, but I just want to be honest I guess because the friends that I have aren’t that great or supportive and aren’t anyone I can reach out to, and this is one of my few platforms. But I’m honestly struggling with some pretty strong suicidal feelings over the last couple days. Not so much in the sense that I need anyone to call emergency services for me or whatever, I’m at the point where if I know I need help, I’ll go get it.

But just in the abstract, it’s really hard to imagine myself going through this process again. On top of the stuff that I already mentioned, I also have an attachment disorder, and it makes it feel impossible to let go of people who are important to me. This woman has been a significant part of my life for a long time, and I’ve always had feelings for her, but those feelings have gotten extremely strong recently with all the time I’ve spent around her. I don’t really feel like I can handle the pain of knowing that I won’t ever get to experience the things I hoped for with her, or maybe the even greater of knowing that I wasn’t good enough for her and that she’s chosen somebody else over me because I couldn’t measure up.

I kind of feel like I do all the things that you’re supposed to do on paper. I lift three times a week and run over 3 miles everyday. I have a pretty strong sense of style and I’m a really well groomed person. I have interests and hobbies and a good sense of identity for who I am and what I want. I have a good sense of humor. And yet none of that has ever measured up to me being enough for the people that I care about. It’s really hard to imagine what else I could do. It feels like no matter what I do, it will always be the wrong thing, and no matter how hard I try and how much effort I put into myself, it won’t be good enough.

It gets harder to carry on and have any hope that there’s anyone else out there for me. Even in the sense of just going out and hooking up with someone, I don’t have any interest because I’m just not attracted in anyway to anyone at all at this point, I have hobbies and stuff, but they’ve never really led to introducing me to other people or connecting with someone. And it gets harder and harder to participate in those things and enjoy life when I have to keep doing them on my own, and never have anyone to share my life or the things that are important to me with. There just kind of comes a point where it’s diminishing returns and it doesn’t feel like there’s any point and there’s no enjoyment to be had in life.

Anyway that’s kind of what’s going on today with me. Mostly just trying to hang on until my next therapy session next week when I get to talk about this development with my therapist for the first time since it happened. But I’m really, really ****ing struggling at the moment.

[Larry Schuler]

Outside of the intense relationships you've had with the one or two women you've referenced, have you gone on many dates? No judgment either way but I had a similar fixation and romanticization on a very small handful of people that I'd elevate as 'the ones' and think about constantly in grandiose, extreme ways in my mid-20s. If this is at all an interesting road to go down for you, I have some experiences and practical, doable things I did that kind of shattered my existing notions of relationships and, likewise, busted me out of that rut you're describing (being active, engaged in hobbies, and knowing you are a good person but having trouble getting the valuable positive external affirmation via dating/relationships and also fulfilling a strong want for intimacy with someone, etc).

[Falls City Beer]

The only thing that ever guided me out of my darkness in failed relationships past was work that was meaningful. Service to others. Volunteering. Buying someone lunch. Tutoring at the library. Bringing someone flowers. Writing to old friends that I’d lost touch with. In essence, kind of emptying out my sense of what I wanted and replacing it with what I can do and be.

It sounds corny, but it’s remarkably therapeutic.

[Wonderful Monds]

Outside of the intense relationships you've had with the one or two women you've referenced, have you gone on many dates? No judgment either way but I had a similar fixation and romanticization on a very small handful of people that I'd elevate as 'the ones' and think about constantly in grandiose, extreme ways in my mid-20s. If this is at all an interesting road to go down for you, I have some experiences and practical, doable things I did that kind of shattered my existing notions of relationships and, likewise, busted me out of that rut you're describing (being active, engaged in hobbies, and knowing you are a good person but having trouble getting the valuable positive external affirmation via dating/relationships and also fulfilling a strong want for intimacy with someone, etc).

Yeah man, I’m definitely interested in pretty much anyone has to offer at this point.

I have definitely been on a bunch of dates and I’ve hooked up with plenty of people in my time. After my breakup, I went pretty hard on Tinder and online dating and all that stuff, and I didn’t really have trouble getting dates, but I honestly just didn’t feel any connection or any real attraction to any of the women I went out with. Hopped back on for the first time in a couple years at the start of lockdowns, and I got some matches and stuff but again not with anyone that I felt any actual real attraction towards. I’ve definitely forced myself out there and have forced myself to give people chances and see what’s out there, but I feel like it’s sort of sucked the life out of me at this point.

[Larry Schuler]

Yeah man, I’m definitely interested in pretty much anyone has to offer at this point.

I have definitely been on a bunch of dates and I’ve hooked up with plenty of people in my time. After my breakup, I went pretty hard on Tinder and online dating and all that stuff, and I didn’t really have trouble getting dates, but I honestly just didn’t feel any connection or any real attraction to any of the women I went out with. Hopped back on for the first time in a couple years at the start of lockdowns, and I got some matches and stuff but again not with anyone that I felt any actual real attraction towards. I’ve definitely forced myself out there and have forced myself to give people chances and see what’s out there, but I feel like it’s sort of sucked the life out of me at this point.

Something I did that could be helpful was give myself the mission/goal of "sit and be pleasant with a stranger for 30 mins to an 1 hour and try to enjoy that hour" and that's it. No thinking of my past or my future. Literally, just "be a decent dude for an hour, enjoy the time, offer a stranger the opportunity to do the same, and then walk away content."

I thought the lesson I was teaching myself was "if I can succeed for an hour, once, I can try to do it again and, if it works again, try it a third time, etc etc, until I have strung together a relationship with someone" but I actually learned a better lesson by accident.

With a set of blinders on and my brain turned off, I realized that I finally got to see what I'm like around people and I finally got to see what other people are like around me. I learned that the self-protective worry and planning and invention and expectations weren't the air that I needed to breathe and survive–they were the smog and pollution that choked me and clouded my life. It's sad to think "I've never really been myself before" but IMO it's sadder to think "I'm going to continue to confuse the pollution as who I am and never get to be myself."

If I can project or extrapolate my personal experience on to yours, the thing that may activate all the good stuff you listed earlier (healthy, engaged, active, hobbies, interests, etc) is 1) letting go of the idea that your past experiences and your dread about the future define you and 2) really fighting with conviction to meet your true self and share it with others. It's a life long struggle and there's no endpoint but I genuinely believe that those times in your life where you have the clarity of mind to really be yourself are special and impactful, positive things happen during those moments.

This is TMI and this post is long but, back to my own experience, the first time I found a brief flash of that clarity and I was able to be myself, I met my wife within a few weeks. The next time I had it, I finally decided to cut a toxic family member out of my life forever and, within a few months, my relative who was married to that toxic person filed for divorce and they are now thriving, so I believe there is a positive ripple effect on those in your life that you care about. I think it just takes one accidental moment where you see what it's like and feels like to be yourself without all the pain and baggage and you can see that light at the end of the tunnel and, hopefully, try and be open for more of those times.

[RFS62]

Monds, stop telling yourself that you aren't worthy.

It sounds like you really believe that you are destined to a life of misery.

If you really believe that, it most certainly will become true.

You have to stop that immediately, just as you would have to stop everything else and tend to a gushing head wound.

A lot of people here are totally engrossed in what we know of your personality, your way with words, what we perceive as your essence. We believe in you, and we see ourselves in our own pasts experiences through your soulful writing. We care about you, and we try hard to think of ways to give you encouragement without hurting your feelings or making things worse.

You are worthy of love. I don't think you believe that. I think you believe quite the opposite, and that core belief influences every single other thing in your life.

Stop that. Don't ask for an explanation about why you should stop it. Just stop it.

You really are committing suicide already. It's just a much slower process, with much more pain.

[schmidty622]

Yeah man, I’m definitely interested in pretty much anyone has to offer at this point.

I have definitely been on a bunch of dates and I’ve hooked up with plenty of people in my time. After my breakup, I went pretty hard on Tinder and online dating and all that stuff, and I didn’t really have trouble getting dates, but I honestly just didn’t feel any connection or any real attraction to any of the women I went out with. Hopped back on for the first time in a couple years at the start of lockdowns, and I got some matches and stuff but again not with anyone that I felt any actual real attraction towards. I’ve definitely forced myself out there and have forced myself to give people chances and see what’s out there, but I feel like it’s sort of sucked the life out of me at this point.

I don't want to interject if this is not really the case, but have you ever considered that maybe you're aromantic?

Over the past few years I've done some introspection and I really just don't like the mechanics of a relationship. I'm not asexual... I just don't want a relationship and what you say above seems to square with my feelings. No real connection, No real attraction... etc.

Again, just a thought. No worries if it doesn't square with how you feel.

[Reds Freak]

Never married but had a pair of three-year relationships in my 20s that were on the doorstep. I felt like I didn't turn the corner after the breakups until I physically changed my surroundings, once moving to a different part of the country and once moving out of the house we had once shared and into a different neighborhood.

I understand not everyone's circumstances allows them to do that, but having new scenery and being around new people represented a fresh start for me and allowed me to completely bury the old relationships.

[NeilHamburger]

The only thing that ever guided me out of my darkness in failed relationships past was work that was meaningful. Service to others. Volunteering. Buying someone lunch. Tutoring at the library. Bringing someone flowers. Writing to old friends that I’d lost touch with. In essence, kind of emptying out my sense of what I wanted and replacing it with what I can do and be.

It sounds corny, but it’s remarkably therapeutic.

For me, it was pornhub. Same difference though really.

[adkindo]

Yeah man, I’m definitely interested in pretty much anyone has to offer at this point.

I have definitely been on a bunch of dates and I’ve hooked up with plenty of people in my time. After my breakup, I went pretty hard on Tinder and online dating and all that stuff, and I didn’t really have trouble getting dates, but I honestly just didn’t feel any connection or any real attraction to any of the women I went out with. Hopped back on for the first time in a couple years at the start of lockdowns, and I got some matches and stuff but again not with anyone that I felt any actual real attraction towards. I’ve definitely forced myself out there and have forced myself to give people chances and see what’s out there, but I feel like it’s sort of sucked the life out of me at this point.

I have not read all of the posts in the thread, so I apologize if you have already provided this information.....but are you completely over the person who you exited the serious relationship with originally? I only ask because when I got divorced, I wanted to get divorced and never regretted the divorce, but it was not like I was completely over my high school sweetheart that I was married to for over a decade....and I found many of those subsequent relationships void of that "feeling". The females were beautiful, checked all the boxes....but it never felt like this could be something long term, and I even lived with a female for nearly a year. The problem was I still was not fully over and disconnected from my ex-wife. Once I allowed time to take care of those emotions and made more of an effort to disconnect from my ex wife (as much as possible, we have a daughter and 50/50 custody), it made all the difference in the world about how I felt about new relationships.

[adkindo]

I got laid way more after my divorce than before.

the rate and number of women really did not change for me....but that was probably the cause of the divorce. :evil: (I am kidding....)

[adkindo]

Divorce sucks I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy...

I agree with this. No matter how prepared you think you are or even if you think you really want it, it is a very difficult process. My advice to any guy getting a divorce is to get a good attorney....even if it hurts the wallet bad....even if she promises you that "you do not need one". It is not about hurting her, it is about protecting you. However you exit the marriage in regards to finances, property, etc. will impact the next phase of your life....and you want the next phase to start on as positive footing as possible. Your primary concern should be in this order...

1. Kids (if you are parents)
2. Yourself
3. There is no #3....she will be looking out for her.

I advise male friends to be fair and to expect the worst. My ex wife and I had always said 50/50 custody of our child...up until a phone call before we received the initial response from her attorney. Boom, she was asking for 100% custody. Later she claimed her lawyer told her to as a starting point of negotiation. She also later told me her attorney tried to get her to claim I mentally abused her and I was "aggressive" towards her. In the end, she never made those false claims, but I am just pointing out that divorce attorneys (especially for the female) can get nasty and are looking for any advantage they can find. It us just part of the process, but always try to remain civil....creating anger and hostility will only make things more difficult on everyone. It is sad, but once you file for divorce, you are no longer on the same team....so be careful about any action or communication you have with her until it is finalized. I have seen guys cost themselves by allowing themselves to be somewhat "setup"....like innocent type things. I had a friend that wanted to pick up his golf clubs, and his "wife" responded via email to pick them up another day. He responded he needed them for the morning, and she never responded. He swung by, she brought them out to him and was not mad or anything. The next day her attorney filed a complaint with the court that he was forcefully showing up when she requested he not be at her home, and asked for a restraining order! The court did not award the order, but it was still a negative file in the case.

One more thing....make sure you have all your facts and supporting documentation for everything....and make sure you investigate "her" facts. One thing her attorney had her do was to reduce her work schedule by 30% once I filed. So by the time we got to the final stage, it was like 7-8 months later and you have to report income from the previous 6 months! Since her income was greatly reduced, it appeared much lower than mine (which it really was not significantly lower)....therefore the child support formula's and any alimony would be significantly more. Those payments can be for years (child support) or even life if alimony is involved. Fortunately, we challenged it and the judge accepted my claim that she was purposely reducing her income for divorce proceedings. I think it was dishonesty about that and a few other things that cost her with the judge and allowed me to get a fair outcome.

[Rojo]

Sorry, you don't get to hijack this thread because your pet project is the pandemic, that's just selfish and rude. Let this man speak to others about his life, take your issues with the pandemic to the other thread. Don't be a bore, be a mensch.

I brought a pretty germane point about meeting people.

I don't care about myself, I'm an old crank. But it's pretty tough for my son who broke up with a woman right before this whole thing went down. He smokes dope and plays video games. At age 30 I find that pretty pathetic but resist the urge to get on him about it.

Because what is he supposed to do?

"Get back out there......on Zoom!"

[Reds Freak]

I brought a pretty germane point about meeting people.

I don't care about myself, I'm an old crank. But it's pretty tough for my son who broke up with a woman right before this whole thing went down. He smokes dope and plays video games. At age 30 I find that pretty pathetic but resist the urge to get on him about it.

Because what is he supposed to do?

"Get back out there......on Zoom!"

Nope. There's plenty of socially-distanced, safe ways to meet people and date during the pandemic, especially with online dating. No, you can't go to a crowded bar or a nightclub so you'll have to get more creative. But I've been in the dating pool all summer and it can be done.

[WrongVerb]

the rate and number of women really did not change for me....but that was probably the cause of the divorce. :evil: (I am kidding....)

:laugh:

[Roy Tucker]

I get to guide my son through this now. Not something I thought I’d be doing as a father.

[westofyou]

I brought a pretty germane point about meeting people.

I don't care about myself, I'm an old crank. But it's pretty tough for my son who broke up with a woman right before this whole thing went down. He smokes dope and plays video games. At age 30 I find that pretty pathetic but resist the urge to get on him about it.

Because what is he supposed to do?

"Get back out there......on Zoom!"

Germaine perhaps, cranky even more so, as evidenced by the Zoom comment.

Time and Place eh?

Even an "Old Crank" would recognize that his quest was for information about ending a relationship not beginning one.

[BernieCarbo]

I brought a pretty germane point about meeting people.

I don't care about myself, I'm an old crank. But it's pretty tough for my son who broke up with a woman right before this whole thing went down. He smokes dope and plays video games. At age 30 I find that pretty pathetic but resist the urge to get on him about it.

Because what is he supposed to do?

"Get back out there......on Zoom!"

There must be tons of women that would be attracted to a 30 year old guy who smokes dope and plays video games. Or maybe not.

There are still plenty of ways to meet women. Maybe if he had some more interesting hobbies, he would.

[Falls City Beer]

There must be tons of women that would be attracted to a 30 year old guy who smokes dope and plays video games. Or maybe not.

There are still plenty of ways to meet women. Maybe if he had some more interesting hobbies, he would.

My younger brother is a divorcee, a doctor (so pretty busy), and by all measures a pretty good looking guy (a bit Steve Carrell-looking) and is finding dating right now to be horrible. No nice restaurants, no babysitters, just general weirdness.

[Todd Gack]

My younger brother is a divorcee, a doctor (so pretty busy), and by all measures a pretty good looking guy (a bit Steve Carrell-looking) and is finding dating right now to be horrible. No nice restaurants, no babysitters, just general weirdness.

The best part about being a teacher is that I have disposal of babysitters at hand. Just one of the many perks of being one.

In all seriousness, there's plenty of evidence that dating has sucked so much because of the rise of social media.

[Falls City Beer]

The best part about being a teacher is that I have disposal of babysitters at hand. Just one of the many perks of being one.

In all seriousness, there's plenty of evidence that dating has sucked so much because of the rise of social media.

You may be right. Mercifully I got married in 95, before the dawn of smartphones.

[BernieCarbo]

Grocery stores around 7PM are still the best place to meet women by far.

[westofyou]

Grocery stores around 7PM are still the best place to meet women by far.

That's also a classic Happy Days episode.. introduced Lavern and Shirley

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0596133/

[M2]

https://y.yarn.co/bafdcf76-928d-4ddd-bb78-18e8683a38f9_text.gif

[Wonderful Monds]

Just wanted to say again that I appreciate all the really thoughtful replies in regards to my situation, I’ve been re-reading them constantly and thinking about them a lot over the last few days. Just wanted to make sure that was known.

[BernieCarbo]

That's also a classic Happy Days episode.. introduced Lavern and Shirley

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0596133/

I never saw that show, but it's probably accurate.

I met my gf a couple of years ago in Kroger. She was behind me in the checkout line, and I heard her say "Excuse me, but you are very handsome."

I turned around, and said, "Yeah, I get that a lot."

Pause.

"What about me?"

I turned around again and checked her out and said "You're a looker, for sure."

"Well, if you aren't married and don't have a girlfriend, maybe we could meet for coffee or something sometime?"

The rest is history. We've been together ever since. We got engaged, but will never get married because of financial reasons, but we are a good match. I drive her crazy now and then, but she adapts.

[Roy Tucker]

The problem my son has is that he’s a chef and works insane hours. They’ve cut back to the absolute bone to stay afloat. But the good news is he still has a job. So keep going to Rhinegeist and drink their beer and eat their OTR Chili. I told him the rest of it will happen when it does. Fate has a funny way of aligning the stars.

[BernieCarbo]

The problem my son has is that he’s a chef and works insane hours. They’ve cut back to the absolute bone to stay afloat. But the good news is he still has a job. So keep going to Rhinegeist and drink their beer and eat their OTR Chili. I told him the rest of it will happen when it does. Fate has a funny way of aligning the stars.

Funny you mention that. I was just talking to another guy the other night that has had a hard time meeting someone, and I told him to just relax and let it happen. If you try too hard, women sense it and are put off by it. How many times has a guy started dating someone and then the women start coming out of the woodwork? It's because they are confident and relaxed and women love that.

[Roy Tucker]

Funny you mention that. I was just talking to another guy the other night that has had a hard time meeting someone, and I told him to just relax and let it happen. If you try too hard, women sense it and are put off by it. How many times has a guy started dating someone and then the women start coming out of the woodwork? It's because they are confident and relaxed and women love that.

Yep, that was pretty much the advice I gave him. I had to couch it softly because it was my wife and I having this conversation with him. I started to tell the story of when I was single and loved to cook so I’d invite women over and cook them dinner and a bottle of wine (or 2 or 3) but decided in midstream that maybe that wasn’t a good topic for my wife to hear. I managed to skate around it though. Obviously he is a great cook and does it as a hobby as well as a living. He’ll be fine.

[adkindo]

Divorce sucks, and I would not recommend it for anyone unless they had reached a point of confidence the relationship needed to end. That said, fear of not being able to meet someone new should never stop someone from exiting a marriage. Divorce rates are astronomical....some marriages last less than 10 years, some around 10 years, 15 years, etc. The point is the "market" of single people of the preferred sex is being replenished every day of the week. It may happen fast or it may take a while...but if you make the effort, you will meet new people that you are interested in and are interested in you. Just be sure you have identified your own shortcomings in your initial marriage, and he/she has identified their shortcomings in their previous relationship....because if you fail to own those, then your new relationship will likely eventually end for similar reasons. Also, remember that everyone has "baggage" that is not 25 years old.....so don't allow your baggage keep you from being open to new relationships.

I saw someone mentioned earlier the grocery store is a good place to meet people...and they are correct, but I would add that common places like the grocery store, gym, etc. all can be good places, make sure you are going to those places in the right areas of town. For example, these places near nice condo's or upscale apartment complexes are much better most of the time than these locations in areas of town where older couples and families are more common. Just saying that condo's and nice apartments are prime real estate for divorced males and females. Even if you have to drive an extra mile or three, it is worth it....and get in the habit of looking for the ring or absence of the ring. That was something that never even crossed my mind in my early 20's, but became a requirement after my divorce.

[RFS62]

I get to guide my son through this now. Not something I thought I’d be doing as a father.


Sorry to hear that Roy.

I know you'll tell him exactly what he needs to hear.

Even if you're not sure what that is.

It just comes to you.

[Rojo]

In all seriousness, there's plenty of evidence that dating has sucked so much because of the rise of social media.

There's something reductive and clinical about online dating. I mean here's the best pic I ever took and I went to this school and have this job and this hobby. Whatever.

People should meet in bars. You can see how they look in all facets, how they move, how they interact with others and if it's not match there's no "should we do this again" awkwardness.

[RedTeamGo!]

There's something reductive and clinical about online dating. I mean here's the best pic I ever took and I went to this school and have this job and this hobby. Whatever.

People should meet in bars. You can see how they look in all facets, how they move, how they interact with others and if it's not match there's no "should we do this again" awkwardness.

My friends that are active on dating apps just use it to say “hey, want to meet at O’Sullivans at 9?” “Sure”

Then they go through the process you described.

I’m not defending it because I’ve been with my wife since before smartphones, but I really don’t think it’s as clinical as you think.

I have friends that have met their wives on tinder, thought it was going to be a one night stand and turned into more.

[WrongVerb]

I met my current wife on OKCupid. She's the best woman I've ever known, and I look forward to spending the rest of my life with her.

[kaldaniels]

I met my current wife on OKCupid. She's the best woman I've ever known, and I look forward to spending the rest of my life with her.

Looks like someone forgot to log out of his account.

[Larry Schuler]

Edit: I think I did “online dating” too long ago to offer relevant advice today. :)

[Bourgeois Zee]

Edit: I think I did “online dating” too long ago to offer relevant advice today. :)

I thought your advice was great, Larry.

I'd never thought about online dating from a woman's perspective (and how it tends to weed out some of the many jerks they have to deal with).

[M2]

Dating strikes me as similar to baseball. We all assume the way we did it is the "right" way and that these kids today are doing it all wrong.

[Roy Tucker]

It still all comes down to chemistry. Either you have it or you don’t.

Seems to me that online dating just speeds up the process. I met my wife at work. It used to be that you had to rely on Gump’s feather to blow you around and meet people at bars or church or work or the gym or set up by a friend or whatever. But it all comes down to either you have “it” or you don’t. If I was in the market, I’d use it.

[Wonderful Monds]

Online dating is less than useless in my experience. Pretty actively harmful to my self worth.

It only prioritizes immediate physical attractiveness, and if you’re not that or even if you are but aren’t the most photogenic person on earth or don’t have friends who give a damn about photo ops, you’re kind of completely and totally screwed.

I’ve met way more women that I’ve actually been attracted to in person vs. Tinder or whatever. Every single person I’ve met through tinder I’ve had to force myself to be attracted to, because they honestly didn’t meet my real life standards, and they all had really unattractive personalities and treated me like crap. No thanks to any of that.

[Rojo]

Online dating is less than useless in my experience. Pretty actively harmful to my self worth..

Feels like a job interview, which is such a phony, degrading experience. Like i have to pretend to be such an ambitious, work-centered "go getter".

Whatever.

[westofyou]

Feels like a job interview, which is such a phony, degrading experiences. Like i have to pretend to be such an ambitious, work-centered "go getter".

Whatever.

Your sunny personality is contagious

[Falls City Beer]

Your sunny personality is contagious

I come across as the most pessimistic person to most people on this site, but I’ve been happily married for 25 years. My real life existence bears little resemblance to my (justifiably) curmudgeonly Reds‘ fandom. My students rate me among their favorite, most-supportive teachers. My classes have long wait lists.

Don’t let this internet thing fool you.

[Rojo]

Your sunny personality is contagious

And keeping with our times.


https://youtu.be/PuFwHJ52iQo

[Falls City Beer]

And keeping with our times.


https://youtu.be/PuFwHJ52iQo

I just can’t fake the phony sunshine up the ass routine. It’s possible I’m on the Asperger’s spectrum to some mild degree. My wife has wondered it aloud.

[Rojo]

Having said that, I'm actually optimistic because I think Americans, at heart, are pretty decent people. Most recent immigrants, from East Asia, South Asia and Latin America think this too. And they're our future.

[westofyou]

I come across as the most pessimistic person to most people on this site, but I’ve been happily married for 25 years. My real life existence bears little resemblance to my (justifiably) curmudgeonly Reds‘ fandom. My students rate me among their favorite, most-supportive teachers. My classes have long wait lists.

Don’t let this internet thing fool you.

I'd buy you and Rojo a drink

[Falls City Beer]

I'd buy you and Rojo a drink

Back atcha. You seem like a genuine, unpretentious mensch.

[Rojo]

Back atcha. You seem like a genuine, unpretentious mensch.

Even when he's a scold, it's hard to not like him.

Unlike you and I.

[Falls City Beer]

Even when he's a scold, it's hard to not like him.

Unlike you and I.

Being both Jew and Catholic, I’m an exile in my own skin. I’ve learned to live with it.

[Rojo]

Being both Jew and Catholic, I’m an exile in my own skin.

Protestants gave us Capitalism.

No.

Thanks.

[Falls City Beer]

Protestants gave us Capitalism.

No.

Thanks.

My wife, Nashville debutante, secretly loves me for all of the transgressions I represent.

[westofyou]

Back atcha. You seem like a genuine, unpretentious mensch.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Rojo]

My wife, Nashville debutante, secretly loves me for all of the transgressions I represent.

My family is from Atlanta, all of them.

So, my grandmother was a bit of a Southern Belle, but not really.

Her grandfather was a share-cropper in North Carolina. Bear in mind, this is her story and she was a kind of chain-smoking, bourbon-drinking drunk that has no relation to me -0.

Anyhow, he was behind the plow on an 101 degree day when he recalled a conversation he heard in town the day before about how many rich Methodists there were in Atlanta.

Then God spoke to him.

"Go to Atlanta and speak to the faithful".

He did and became an early radio preacher and made a lot of money. He sent his son to law school.

His son did well and raised my grandmother in a nice lifestyle. But the Great Depression hit and he began to defend people who threw themselves in front of cars for lawsuits. He got disbarred. His kids then had to fend for themselves.

One of his daughters, my grandmother, married a tall, working-class Irish-Dutch-American who was a point guard and short stop for Georgia Tech, my grandfather.

My grandfather got that house. My grandmother got "tall" genes.

[Falls City Beer]

My family is from Atlanta, all of them.

So, my grandmother was a bit of a Southern Belle, but not really.

Her grandfather was a share-cropper in North Carolina. Bear in mind, this is her story and she was a kind of chain-smoking, bourbon-drinking drunk that has no relation to me -0.

Anyhow, he was behind the plow on an 101 degree day when he recalled a conversation he heard in town the day before about how many rich Methodists there were in Atlanta.

Then God spoke to him.

"Go to Atlanta and speak to the faithful".

He did and became an early radio preacher and made a lot of money. He sent his son to law school.

His son did well and raised my grandmother in a nice lifestyle. But the Great Depression hit and he began to defend people who through themselves in front of cars for lawsuits. He got disbarred. His kids then had to fend for themselves. One of his daughters, my grandmother, married a tall, working-class Irish-Dutch-American, my grandfather.

My grandfather got that house. My grandmother got "tall" genes.

Fantastic stuff. My dad was a 6’ 4” Polish Jew with scoliosis who sweet-talked a 5’ 3” thick set Irish Catholic girl from Covington into 50 years together. My mom still drives the 26 miles to his grave every Saturday, 13 years later. Ain’t love grand?

[Rojo]

When I was a kid there was a series of murders of young black boys in Atlanta.

Jimmy Carter was president and committed a lot of federal resources to solving this.

I was young and my grandmother, the scion of rich folks, said that it was ridiculous how many resources were being devoted to this.

And then my grandfather, her husband, castigated her. He actually said "how dare you, a mother misses her child no matter what race they are".''

That stuck with me.

[M2]

Who says online dating doesn't work?

[Roy Tucker]

I liked it better when we were talking about getting drinks.

[Wonderful Monds]

Not having the greatest night with this stuff. I’ve been kind of mindlessly browsing tinder and other apps like that to distract myself from what’s been going on lately in my life, and unfortunately I came across my friend’s profile I mentioned in my first post about this. It’s kind of re-sparked a lot of the really intense negative feelings I had right away when this all went down a couple weeks ago.

It’s just kind of a huge punch in the gut that she’s out there looking for someone in the first place, and I that I don’t feel like I measure up to what she wants.

I think I mentioned it already, but I have an attachment disorder, and this particular friend of mine I have feelings for, I’ve had these feelings for over a decade at this point. She’s the first person I ever dated and was a close friend off and on for quite a long time. Like trying to grapple that she doesn’t feel the way about me that I feel about her feels devastating, at the risk of sounding super melodramatic, it feels like it’s going to kill me. I’ve had a lot of pain over feelings like this in my life, but after my ex-girlfriend breaking up with me that I’ve talked about on here before, this is the the most painful it’s ever been.

I’ve been drinking from the time I wake up until I fall asleep at night pretty much every single day for the last 2 weeks. Most days I hope I don’t wake up the next morning.

Anyway. I have therapy tomorrow, which I’m really looking forward to. But man I’m having a really goddamn hard time right now.

[M2]

Not having the greatest night with this stuff. I’ve been kind of mindlessly browsing tinder and other apps like that to distract myself from what’s been going on lately in my life, and unfortunately I came across my friend’s profile I mentioned in my first post about this. It’s kind of re-sparked a lot of the really intense negative feelings I had right away when this all went down a couple weeks ago.

It’s just kind of a huge punch in the gut that she’s out there looking for someone in the first place, and I that I don’t feel like I measure up to what she wants.

I think I mentioned it already, but I have an attachment disorder, and this particular friend of mine I have feelings for, I’ve had these feelings for over a decade at this point. She’s the first person I ever dated and was a close friend off and on for quite a long time. Like trying to grapple that she doesn’t feel the way about me that I feel about her feels devastating, at the risk of sounding super melodramatic, it feels like it’s going to kill me. I’ve had a lot of pain over feelings like this in my life, but after my ex-girlfriend breaking up with me that I’ve talked about on here before, this is the the most painful it’s ever been.

I’ve been drinking from the time I wake up until I fall asleep at night pretty much every single day for the last 2 weeks. Most days I hope I don’t wake up the next morning.

Anyway. I have therapy tomorrow, which I’m really looking forward to. But man I’m having a really goddamn hard time right now.

Call a help line and just talk.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Not having the greatest night with this stuff. I’ve been kind of mindlessly browsing tinder and other apps like that to distract myself from what’s been going on lately in my life, and unfortunately I came across my friend’s profile I mentioned in my first post about this. It’s kind of re-sparked a lot of the really intense negative feelings I had right away when this all went down a couple weeks ago.

It’s just kind of a huge punch in the gut that she’s out there looking for someone in the first place, and I that I don’t feel like I measure up to what she wants.

I think I mentioned it already, but I have an attachment disorder, and this particular friend of mine I have feelings for, I’ve had these feelings for over a decade at this point. She’s the first person I ever dated and was a close friend off and on for quite a long time. Like trying to grapple that she doesn’t feel the way about me that I feel about her feels devastating, at the risk of sounding super melodramatic, it feels like it’s going to kill me. I’ve had a lot of pain over feelings like this in my life, but after my ex-girlfriend breaking up with me that I’ve talked about on here before, this is the the most painful it’s ever been.

I’ve been drinking from the time I wake up until I fall asleep at night pretty much every single day for the last 2 weeks. Most days I hope I don’t wake up the next morning.

Anyway. I have therapy tomorrow, which I’m really looking forward to. But man I’m having a really goddamn hard time right now.

I’m not sure it’s the greatest idea, but have you talked to her? I know you mentioned kinda sorta asking her out, but have you really told her how you feel? It might not go the way you want, but at least you won’t be stuck in this in between area.

[adkindo]

When I was a kid there was a series of murders of young black boys in Atlanta.

Jimmy Carter was president and committed a lot of federal resources to solving this.

I was young and my grandmother, the scion of rich folks, said that it was ridiculous how many resources were being devoted to this.

And then my grandfather, her husband, castigated her. He actually said "how dare you, a mother misses her child no matter what race they are".''

That stuck with me.

Did anyone watch that docu series on HBO this past year about these murders? I was good as in well done, but it was a tough watch for anyone with a heart.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10720030/

[adkindo]

Not having the greatest night with this stuff. I’ve been kind of mindlessly browsing tinder and other apps like that to distract myself from what’s been going on lately in my life, and unfortunately I came across my friend’s profile I mentioned in my first post about this. It’s kind of re-sparked a lot of the really intense negative feelings I had right away when this all went down a couple weeks ago.

It’s just kind of a huge punch in the gut that she’s out there looking for someone in the first place, and I that I don’t feel like I measure up to what she wants.

I think I mentioned it already, but I have an attachment disorder, and this particular friend of mine I have feelings for, I’ve had these feelings for over a decade at this point. She’s the first person I ever dated and was a close friend off and on for quite a long time. Like trying to grapple that she doesn’t feel the way about me that I feel about her feels devastating, at the risk of sounding super melodramatic, it feels like it’s going to kill me. I’ve had a lot of pain over feelings like this in my life, but after my ex-girlfriend breaking up with me that I’ve talked about on here before, this is the the most painful it’s ever been.

I’ve been drinking from the time I wake up until I fall asleep at night pretty much every single day for the last 2 weeks. Most days I hope I don’t wake up the next morning.

Anyway. I have therapy tomorrow, which I’m really looking forward to. But man I’m having a really goddamn hard time right now.

I feel for you.....but you have to know and believe it will get better. I do not know when or how long it will take for the change to happen, but I know it will. One day you will wake up and it will hurt less....it is a process that I am not sure there is a major short cut. At some point though, you will have to set the alcohol to the side and start getting yourself positioned for the better days to follow. Only you can do that....and please do not think I am making light of your pain....it is clear to me that it is very real.

[Wonderful Monds]

I’m not sure it’s the greatest idea, but have you talked to her? I know you mentioned kinda sorta asking her out, but have you really told her how you feel? It might not go the way you want, but at least you won’t be stuck in this in between area.

She knows how I feel about her, it’s been out in the open for a while. That was the hurdle for her thinking that we shouldn’t hang out together 1 on 1 rather than just doing stuff together with the rest of our friends.

I have kind of thought about reaching out to her again if for no other reason than to see how she’s feeling about my decision to basically step away, and maybe clarifying some of the things that I said in terms of why I felt I needed to do so. But I’m not sure if there’s any way I could further elaborate on how I feel about her to her.

[Wonderful Monds]

I feel for you.....but you have to know and believe it will get better. I do not know when or how long it will take for the change to happen, but I know it will. One day you will wake up and it will hurt less....it is a process that I am not sure there is a major short cut. At some point though, you will have to set the alcohol to the side and start getting yourself positioned for the better days to follow. Only you can do that....and please do not think I am making light of your pain....it is clear to me that it is very real.

Good news is I’ve stopped drinking for the last couple days, if for no other reason than I try really hard to be as mentally sharp as I can for my therapy sessions.

[Larry Schuler]

Living in theoretical what-ifs and replayed memories can be hell. Other than continuing to talk to a professional or finding a new professional who can help more, the only advice I can give is to try to replace the time spent romanticizing and theorizing in your head with active moments talking and connecting with other people and sharing reality and time with them. Doesn’t have to be romantic. Just has to be in the present and be time put toward connecting you with the outside world and re-calibrating your balance. For real. You can’t beat the demons in your head by retreating further into your head. It’s like having a car with engine issues. You have to get out of the car and get help and slowly fix things so you can eventually get back in and drive to where you really want to be. You can’t fix the engine problems by locking the doors and pressing down on the gas. :bredscap:

[adkindo]

Good news is I’ve stopped drinking for the last couple days, if for no other reason than I try really hard to be as mentally sharp as I can for my therapy sessions.

Take advantage of your therapy....make the effort and it will have a benefit. Actually, if at some point you do not think it is benefitting you, do not be afraid to try a different therapist. I never ever thought I would be sitting on a couch talking to a therapist....and I even went in with a less than perfect attitude about it, but it began to help me work things out in my head, and I bought in. Once I was able to really be honest, my therapist really helped me figure some things out about myself, what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong, etc. etc. I did not come out a perfect human being or even one who figured everything out....but I came out a better person that understood myself a little better, and most importantly the steps I needed to take that I could control to get pointed in the desired direction. It is really hard to be completely honest about how you feel and view things with anyone....even family and friends because you often have reservations how they will perceive you going forward, but no need to worry about that with a therapist because in the end, you do not have to be concerned with how they perceive you in two years. They will not be in your life, and their only role is to help you get to where you want to get as long as they believe that is a healthy place.

If I lived close by....we would be fishing, golfing, playing pool and wasting all kinds of time living in the moment for a few weeks. Do not hesitate to lean on some close friends if they live nearby....that is one of the reasons you have them in your life.

[Rojo]

Did anyone watch that docu series on HBO this past year about these murders? I was good as in well done, but it was a tough watch for anyone with a heart.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10720030/

I didn't know about this. I'll try to watch.

[Rojo]

Take advantage of your therapy....make the effort and it will have a benefit. Actually, if at some point you do not think it is benefitting you, do not be afraid to try a different therapist.

I second this. They work for you and if they don't work for you, get someone else.

I know some will bring up "uncomfortable truths" and "tough love".

Bull****.

Nobody needs a preacher-man.

[Wonderful Monds]

So, I think I essentially found out that one of my close mutual friends with this person I originally mentioned is involved with her, and likely has been the entire time I’ve had my thing going on and struggling with her. Like, as this other friend was giving me advice and I opened up to them about my deep attachment issues and other intense feelings about this woman. I feel pretty deeply betrayed and just kind of like my soul has been ripped out of my body.

I wrote a suicide note earlier and I just kind of stared at it for a while. I even walked out the door to go find a way to make it happen, but I just kind of sat in my car for a few minutes before I decided to come back inside. I’d probably have gone to the hospital if not for the fact that I’d almost certainly get COVID if I went, I called a few psych units and they’re all overcrowded and essentially doubling up rooms, which means no distancing.

I’m barely hanging on for my next therapy session on Tuesday. But I’m not doing well at all, to say the least.

[gonelong]

I am sorry you are hurting. I can see why this is painful. Hang in there and please call someone to talk.

[dfs]

So, I think I essentially found out that one of my close mutual friends with this person I originally mentioned is involved with her, and likely has been the entire time I’ve had my thing going on and struggling with her. Like, as this other friend was giving me advice and I opened up to them about my deep attachment issues and other intense feelings about this woman. I feel pretty deeply betrayed and just kind of like my soul has been ripped out of my body.

I'm sorry that you're going through this, but FWIW that's exactly how that kind of betrayal SHOULD feel meaning...."you" are working not broken. You are learning. You can use that new knowledge to make the world a better place for yourself.

Again, I'm sorry that you're going through this. You are in my prayers. I hope you find a way to broaden your pastures.

Oh...I have a Sunday morning ritual of looking through the contents at https://postsecret.com/ It might help. Doubt it will hurt.

[KoryMac5]

So, I think I essentially found out that one of my close mutual friends with this person I originally mentioned is involved with her, and likely has been the entire time I’ve had my thing going on and struggling with her. Like, as this other friend was giving me advice and I opened up to them about my deep attachment issues and other intense feelings about this woman. I feel pretty deeply betrayed and just kind of like my soul has been ripped out of my body.

I wrote a suicide note earlier and I just kind of stared at it for a while. I even walked out the door to go find a way to make it happen, but I just kind of sat in my car for a few minutes before I decided to come back inside. I’d probably have gone to the hospital if not for the fact that I’d almost certainly get COVID if I went, I called a few psych units and they’re all overcrowded and essentially doubling up rooms, which means no distancing.

I’m barely hanging on for my next therapy session on Tuesday. But I’m not doing well at all, to say the least.

I have worked on a crisis line for Veterans for 11 years once you start writing suicide notes things start to get serious...

In situations like this when we hurt our minds start playing tricks on us and rationalize suicide as an option. Please if you have any friends or supports I think it would be beneficial for you to connect with them as I don't think it is a good idea for you to be home today.

Your local crisis line can help as well...1-800-273-8255

You also have friends here as well if you need to give your mind a bit if a break from all of this.

[M2]

So, I think I essentially found out that one of my close mutual friends with this person I originally mentioned is involved with her, and likely has been the entire time I’ve had my thing going on and struggling with her. Like, as this other friend was giving me advice and I opened up to them about my deep attachment issues and other intense feelings about this woman. I feel pretty deeply betrayed and just kind of like my soul has been ripped out of my body.

I wrote a suicide note earlier and I just kind of stared at it for a while. I even walked out the door to go find a way to make it happen, but I just kind of sat in my car for a few minutes before I decided to come back inside. I’d probably have gone to the hospital if not for the fact that I’d almost certainly get COVID if I went, I called a few psych units and they’re all overcrowded and essentially doubling up rooms, which means no distancing.

I’m barely hanging on for my next therapy session on Tuesday. But I’m not doing well at all, to say the least.

I hope you're hearing it as others here express that they're rooting for you. People care. Also, don't hesitate to get the help you need. If you think you need to go to the hospital, please go. Reach out for help and you will find hands to clasp.

[RFS62]

So, I think I essentially found out that one of my close mutual friends with this person I originally mentioned is involved with her, and likely has been the entire time I’ve had my thing going on and struggling with her. Like, as this other friend was giving me advice and I opened up to them about my deep attachment issues and other intense feelings about this woman. I feel pretty deeply betrayed and just kind of like my soul has been ripped out of my body.

I wrote a suicide note earlier and I just kind of stared at it for a while. I even walked out the door to go find a way to make it happen, but I just kind of sat in my car for a few minutes before I decided to come back inside. I’d probably have gone to the hospital if not for the fact that I’d almost certainly get COVID if I went, I called a few psych units and they’re all overcrowded and essentially doubling up rooms, which means no distancing.

I’m barely hanging on for my next therapy session on Tuesday. But I’m not doing well at all, to say the least.


A lot of good people here care about you.

We don't always know what to say, but that's not what's important.

What's important is that you know we care and we're doing our best to say anything that can help you through the pain.

We've gotten to know you over the last few years. It's kind of selfish for us. We don't want to let you go.

[JFLegal]

Dating strikes me as similar to baseball. We all assume the way we did it is the "right" way and that these kids today are doing it all wrong.

they should probably come up with "getting on first base, second base, third base or hitting a home run" analogies.

[JFLegal]

monds, i like to joke around a lot, but get some help brother. plenty of therapists can help you online (if your current therapist can't get you in). you sound like you're struggling -- get some help asap. you have people who love you that need you around.

[Wonderful Monds]

Just kind of an update on how things have been going for the last week or so. My brain has mostly calmed down from ruminating on the situation as hardcore as it had been the first handful of days. It’s not constant anymore, it just kind of flickers on and off a lot in my head.

What I’m more struggling with at this point is that, I reached out to my best friend last time I posted about this, last weekend before Thanksgiving, and he never acknowledged it at all. Straight up no response and acts like I didn’t say anything at all. Reached out to another close friend and got the same thing, no response.

I’m basically in complete and total isolation at this point besides therapy. Aside from that making it really hard to deal with this from not having anyone to talk to, isolation alone is killing me. I have a hard time with the holidays most years already, but with covid isolation, and my closest friends deciding to basically go AWOL when I need them most, I’m having an incredibly hard time. Honestly feels like nobody in my life remotely gives a **** about me or the stuff I have going on or anything at all.

[M2]

Just kind of an update on how things have been going for the last week or so. My brain has mostly calmed down from ruminating on the situation as hardcore as it had been the first handful of days. It’s not constant anymore, it just kind of flickers on and off a lot in my head.

What I’m more struggling with at this point is that, I reached out to my best friend last time I posted about this, last weekend before Thanksgiving, and he never acknowledged it at all. Straight up no response and acts like I didn’t say anything at all. Reached out to another close friend and got the same thing, no response.

I’m basically in complete and total isolation at this point besides therapy. Aside from that making it really hard to deal with this from not having anyone to talk to, isolation alone is killing me. I have a hard time with the holidays most years already, but with covid isolation, and my closest friends deciding to basically go AWOL when I need them most, I’m having an incredibly hard time. Honestly feels like nobody in my life remotely gives a **** about me or the stuff I have going on or anything at all.

I can guarantee there are people who do care and people who will care. I'm not going to pretend I have any insight that can help, just that there are always people who care (often in the most unexpected of places). We're fortunate enough to have KoryMac5 in our ranks, who actually knows how to navigate these waters. I'm really rooting for you and I know I'm far from alone here in feeling that way.

[Kinsm]

I can guarantee there are people who do care and people who will care. I'm not going to pretend I have any insight that can help, just that there are always people who care (often in the most unexpected of places). We're fortunate enough to have KoryMac5 in our ranks, who actually knows how to navigate these waters. I'm really rooting for you and I know I'm far from alone here in feeling that way.

I'd like to add that you're never too old to get rid of people you thought were your friends. In the last decade I've dropped three different friends from my life who I had daily interaction with for nearly 20 years. It sometimes takes great hardship in your own life to realize who will really be there for you when you need them. Your mind sorely misses those interactions for a long while, but eventually you get over it.

[Roy Tucker]

Everything has a beginning, a middle, and an end. Sometimes that arc is over decades and is a grand story. Sometimes things start out promising but then just dissipate. Some things suck and get worse. A lot of things will only happen with great effort and persistence. You just can’t ever give up. I’ve been lucky. After an absolute disaster of a time throughout my 20’s, I got to start my life over again at the age of 32. I got to start my career over again at the age of 56. It would have been very easy to throw my hands up and quit. I did quit several times and tried to crap on my life. But with the help of good friends, good professionals, and some self-realization and generally getting my head out of my ass, I found that life can be very good. It is also very hard and very challenging, but if it was easy, everyone would do it. So continue to persist. Don’t give up. Good times will come. It will happen.

[Redsfaithful]

Just kind of an update on how things have been going for the last week or so. My brain has mostly calmed down from ruminating on the situation as hardcore as it had been the first handful of days. It’s not constant anymore, it just kind of flickers on and off a lot in my head.

I just read this about COVID-19, but it's really about getting through any tough time which is why I'm sharing - I think this is one of those rare articles that is probably going to permanently change my thought process:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-covid-19-is-like-running-a-marathon-with-no-finish-line-what-does/


It turns out that, if you ask yourself “Can I keep going?” rather than “Can I make it to the finish?” you’re far more likely to answer in the affirmative.

Also, I read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius this year when I was really having a tough time with the pandemic. I don't know if anyone really needs to read the entire thing (it's interesting though, and short), but I've found so much value there also this year. Just a summary is useful:

https://dailystoic.com/meditations-marcus-aurelius/

I think things like this hit you more or less in different parts of life. I don't know if I would have found much use for stoicism as a younger man - I honestly don't know! - but passing that along also, just in case it might be as useful to you as it has been to me. (And apologies if I've passed this along before, I find myself repeating myself more this year - I think it's COVID aftereffects brainfog or something.)

Rumination and fixation - those are tough things when you get caught in those loops. Our brains really cause us a lot of problems sometimes. I know a lot of people here care though, and I'm always looking for an update on how you are doing, and I'm always interested in hearing about how you are feeling.

[JFLegal]

Just kind of an update on how things have been going for the last week or so. My brain has mostly calmed down from ruminating on the situation as hardcore as it had been the first handful of days. It’s not constant anymore, it just kind of flickers on and off a lot in my head.

What I’m more struggling with at this point is that, I reached out to my best friend last time I posted about this, last weekend before Thanksgiving, and he never acknowledged it at all. Straight up no response and acts like I didn’t say anything at all. Reached out to another close friend and got the same thing, no response.

I’m basically in complete and total isolation at this point besides therapy. Aside from that making it really hard to deal with this from not having anyone to talk to, isolation alone is killing me. I have a hard time with the holidays most years already, but with covid isolation, and my closest friends deciding to basically go AWOL when I need them most, I’m having an incredibly hard time. Honestly feels like nobody in my life remotely gives a **** about me or the stuff I have going on or anything at all.

that really sucks that your friends aren't there to help you out. the only thing i could add there is there is a chance they are also dealing with their own issues. a lot of people are struggling right now. always remember that my friend: you are not alone (not even close). a lot of people are in your shoes. fight through the darkness until you see the light.

[TRF]

Monds, you joined the year my marriage was falling apart. It was pretty bad for me. More than a few people here helped me out. I was lucky in that my wife and I worked it out, but believe me I know some of what you are feeling for sure. It got really bad for me.

My friends basically picked sides or tried to use my pain to their gain. I ended up forking over a few grand to a "friend" that took me in.

You find out a lot about people when adversity strikes. Everyone here posting in this thread is a friend to lean on. Even though we don't all get along :).

I kept almost every PM from 2011. From everyone that reached out to help me. This is a good place. So, if you need to reach out...

reach out. We'll answer.

[Wonderful Monds]

Going through another serious setback tonight. I’ve already been struggling due to isolation - I think I mentioned this, but I stopped talking to my friends I mentioned last time I posted in this thread.

There’s another repeat thing going on tonight where I think things are going between one of them and the woman I initially posted about in the first place.

I kinda feel like I’m mentally completely collapsing.

[Kinsm]

Going through another serious setback tonight. I’ve already been struggling due to isolation - I think I mentioned this, but I stopped talking to my friends I mentioned last time I posted in this thread.

There’s another repeat thing going on tonight where I think things are going between one of them and the woman I initially posted about in the first place.

I kinda feel like I’m mentally completely collapsing.

Check your PM, I'll be awake for a few more hours - I'll refresh the page regularly.