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View Full Version : 7-10-16 Reds @ Fishes - The Midseason Finale



Elam
07-10-2016, 11:46 AM
11198

Suarez day off, and Reed toes the rubber. Phillips still cracks the lineup despite the crack in his arm

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 11:53 AM
Still no Peraza, good thing he's sitting the bench and not playing today for Louisville.

mth123
07-10-2016, 01:02 PM
One thing, if they had Holt in RF, this would be the best defensive team they could manage right now. Maybe that is to try to help Reed out a bit. De Jesus is probably a better 3B option than Peraza or Suarez.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:09 PM
Jim Greengrass is an all-time great name. And apparently Mr. Greengrass is still with us at age 88.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 01:12 PM
In three games, the Marlins have worn three different jerseys:

Friday - white
Saturday - black
Sunday - orange

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 01:14 PM
Jim Greengrass is an all-time great name. And apparently Mr. Greengrass is still with us at age 88.

I remember Joe Nuxhall talking about how Jim Greengrass had four doubles on Opening Day one year (1954, I think).

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:17 PM
Prado nearly made the play of the day at 1:11 pm....then at 1:13 Hechavarria makes the play of the day.

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:17 PM
In three games, the Marlins have worn three different jerseys:

Friday - white
Saturday - black
Sunday - orange

Good to see they aren't racist

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:19 PM
Cozart single, Hamilton lineout, Votto walk, and Bruce singles to score Cozart. 1-0 Redlegs.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:23 PM
Duvall just misses a HR.

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:23 PM
Joey

WrongVerb
07-10-2016, 01:28 PM
Joey

Given his seeming decline of late, if he loses his power, that contract is going to become the huge albatross we all thought it would be.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:29 PM
Given his seeming decline of late, if he loses his power, that contract is going to become the huge albatross we all thought it would be.
What does that have to do with not tagging up, which really didn't matter?

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:32 PM
groundout, walk, single so far against Reed. Now has to deal with Stanton.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:33 PM
Wow, big K by Reed of Stanton on sliders.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:34 PM
Reed doesn't give up a run in the 1st!

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:34 PM
Got squeezed then gave up a hit to Yelich on either a bad pitch call or bad defensive set up.

He looked good

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:45 PM
Reed with a strikeout to start the 2nd. But some jamoke Rojas goes with a double the other way.

Chris Welsh talking yesterday and today about the adjustments Mack Jenkins has tried to make so far with these pitchers.

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:46 PM
WTH??????? How did Bruce let him score on that? That was a rocket right to a charging Bruce and no way should he have scored.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:46 PM
Ugh. Hechaveria first pitch swinging too, and lines a single to right. Run scores on a very bad throw by Bruce.

DocRed
07-10-2016, 01:47 PM
I remember when Bruce used to be a +glove.....

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:49 PM
Where was Votto on that?

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:49 PM
Good lord. Hechaveria scores from 2nd base as a Reed pitch goes FLYING off Barnhart's glove/shin.

DocRed
07-10-2016, 01:50 PM
Barnhart's defense seems overrated to me as well....

westofyou
07-10-2016, 01:50 PM
Barnhart has reverse Steve Blass syndrome


No Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 01:50 PM
Where was Votto on that?

Shaded a little to pull. Several steps off the line. He had no chance to get there.

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:51 PM
Replay showed Votto never moved until Barnhart had about 8 steps in. If he breaks as that ball deflects no run scores.

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 01:52 PM
Shaded a little to pull. Several steps off the line. He had no chance to get there.

Replay it and watch how long it takes him to even move. He definitely had a chance to prevent that crazy run.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 01:52 PM
Barnhardt's defense seems overrated to me as well....

I said that last year and got reamed for it.

Actually it's better this year than last, from what I've seen.

WrongVerb
07-10-2016, 01:52 PM
Gotta wonder if those two pitches that got past Barnhart had so much life that even he didn't know where they were going. Sounds odd, but if that's the case that bodes well for Reed going forward.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:53 PM
Replay showed Votto never moved until Cabrera the catcher had about 8 steps in. If he breaks as that ball deflects no run scores.
Dude that ball went flying, there was almost no chance anybody was going to get to that and throw out the speedy runner.

Also Barnhart is the catcher.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 01:55 PM
I said that last year and got reamed for it.

Actually it's better this year than last, from what I've seen.
I think he's got a great reaction time and arm for throwing out runners. But the other stuff (blocking, making catches) seems a little lacking.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 01:55 PM
Replay it and watch how long it takes him to even move. He definitely had a chance to prevent that crazy run.

He was slow to move, but I don't think he would have had any play anyway. (And Barnhart is catching today.)

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 01:58 PM
Marty was yelling "Votto had the best seat in the house, he must have his mind on his OBP"!

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 02:00 PM
Dude that ball went flying, there was almost no chance anybody was going to get to that and throw out the speedy runner.

Also Barnhart is the catcher.

Yeah it went flying....Votto never moved from statue position until Barnhart was to the edge of the circle that is the cutout on the field.

The fact the ball went flying says other players need to be apart of the play. He wasn't ready to help. The catcher stood up and took 7-8 steps before Votto moved. Votto could've had at least 7-8 steps in covering at least 30 feet.

WrongVerb
07-10-2016, 02:02 PM
Reed isn't giving up the hard contact he's been giving up in his first few starts. Still some things to work on but there's some real improvement here. Very promising.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:03 PM
Yeah it went flying....Votto never moved from statue position until Barnhart was to the edge of the circle that is the cutout on the field.

The fact the ball went flying says other players need to be apart of the play. He wasn't ready to help. The catcher stood up and took 7-8 steps before Votto moved. Votto could've had at least 7-8 steps in covering at least 30 feet.
I feel like this is some mental gymnastics to blame the star 1B and not the guy who somehow whiffed on catching the ball and had it take a horrible bounce on him.

- - - Updated - - -


Reed isn't giving up the hard contact he's been giving up in his first few starts. Still some things to work on but there's some real improvement here. Very promising.
Ump is tough on him today too.

- - - Updated - - -

Now THAT was a bad play by Votto.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:04 PM
Infield single by Yelich upon review. Should have been an E3.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:06 PM
Infield single by Yelich upon review. Should have been an E3.
Chuckie upset about untouched fly balls not being ruled errors, but I can't believe the groundballs right to infielders that get ruled hits.

WrongVerb
07-10-2016, 02:06 PM
That was awful by Votto. We talk about Bruce's defense falling off, but Votto's made some really bad plays out there too.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:07 PM
Marty was yelling "Votto had the best seat in the house, he must have his mind on his OBP"!

OK, I have to ask. (Because it's crazy enough that it actually might be true.)

Did Marty really say that? (I'm not listening to the radio broadcast.)

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:08 PM
That was awful by Votto. We talk about Bruce's defense falling off, but Votto's made some really bad plays out there too.
I thought it was a little less bad on review. He knocked it down and tossed it to Reed, Yelich just beat Reed to the bag. Not optimal though.

I have a bad feeling here. I really wish Reed was back in Louisville already, he's got to feel like "here we go again" every inning now.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:10 PM
Reed avoids any damage after the 'hit' and a walk, K #5 ends the frame.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:11 PM
I thought it was a little less bad on review. He knocked it down and tossed it to Reed, Yelich just beat Reed to the bag. Not optimal though.

I have a bad feeling here. I really wish Reed was back in Louisville already, he's got to feel like "here we go again" every inning now.

He ought to, because that's how I feel every time he pitches too. :D

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:14 PM
Bruce single to center, Duvall single to left to start the 4th.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:16 PM
DatDude with his first XBH in a fortnight! 2 run double!

3-2 Redlegs.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:16 PM
DatDude2B! 2 RBI's!

3-2 Reds!

RedsManRick
07-10-2016, 02:18 PM
Phillips is so slow these days; it's hard to watch. Also, that was one heck of a throw by Ozuna.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:18 PM
No challenge (?), but he looked safe.

Donder
07-10-2016, 02:18 PM
When they have that other sit down with BP maybe they can tell him he's not fast any longer also.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:18 PM
Barnhart singled, BP thrown out at home trying to score.

MBZags
07-10-2016, 02:18 PM
Why aren't they challenging? Stupid call waving Phillips in with no outs in any event with Ozuna's arm.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:19 PM
Why aren't they challenging? Stupid call waving Phillips in with no outs in any event with Ozuna's arm.

I thought he was safe in live-action, and I still thought he was safe on replay.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 02:20 PM
OK, I have to ask. (Because it's crazy enough that it actually might be true.)

Did Marty really say that? (I'm not listening to the radio broadcast.)

Yes he did.
I'm watching the game but turned the radio on to hear the 2nd inning interview with the beat writer.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 02:20 PM
Sure, speed is meaningless in baseball.

That Phillips play, man. That is a potential difference maker.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 02:25 PM
Sure, speed is meaningless in baseball.

That Phillips play, man. That is a potential difference maker.

Who said speed is meanningless in baseball?

Patrick Bateman
07-10-2016, 02:27 PM
Sure, speed is meaningless in baseball.

That Phillips play, man. That is a potential difference maker.

Although speed is not an attribute that is going to be a carrying value, it certainly is worth considering.

On the large scale, as Phillips has lost speed and agility, his fielding has declined, he's no longer able to press the issue on stolen bases, and on taking the extra base on hit plays. These are the kind of margins that take a guy from being an acceptable starter to "hard to watch".

A guy isn't going to get there purely on those abilities. You need the carrying value of a baseline acceptable bat and fielding skills. For a guy like Peraza, those margins are what could make him a reasonable starter if he can develop the necessary baseline skills.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:29 PM
Koehler done after 4, Marlins using a pinch hitter.

JaxRed
07-10-2016, 02:29 PM
Am in Florida so have to watch Marlins broadcast. They were convinced Phillips was safe and could not believe it was not challenged.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:29 PM
Yes he did.
I'm watching the game but turned the radio on to hear the 2nd inning interview with the beat writer.

Unbelievable.

I always liked Marty as a kid and a young adult (even into my 20's). But with comments like that, I can't wait for him to go.

I am now convinced (even more than I already was) that Joe Nuxhall was the glue that held the Reds radio broadcast booth together.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:30 PM
It really seems like Reed's stuff is fooling in the umpire too, lot of pitches in the zone being called for balls.

He gets a 1-2-3 inning though.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:32 PM
Am in Florida so have to watch Marlins broadcast. They were convinced Phillips was safe and could not believe it was not challenged.

Does Jeff Conine broadcast for the Fish? I have a ball that I would like for him to sign some day.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:34 PM
It feels like Mike Dunn has been around longer than since 2009.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 02:34 PM
Unbelievable.

I always liked Marty as a kid and a young adult (even into my 20's). But with comments like that, I can't wait for him to go.

I am now convinced (even more than I already was) that Joe Nuxhall was the glue that held the Reds radio broadcast booth together.

I always believed Joe kept Marty in check reminding him the game isn't as easy as it looks.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:37 PM
Fun(?) fact: Mike Dunn and Giancarlo Stanton are the only current Miami Marlins who were formerly Florida Marlins.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:44 PM
Prado is a certified Reds killer.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 02:46 PM
Barnhart looks awful.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:46 PM
Ugh, another ball Barnhart can't glove and Prado moves to third with one out.

Reed with a big K of Yelich though.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:47 PM
Another passed ball.

Check that, scored a wild pitch. But should have been ruled a PB.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 02:47 PM
Reed's slider is quite nasty

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:47 PM
Been waiting for that.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 02:48 PM
Reed just got abused by Giancarlo

Welcome to the bigs

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:48 PM
Oof.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 02:50 PM
LOLcation

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 02:50 PM
Reed's sunglasses strap makes it look like he has a long rat tail.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 02:52 PM
Missed call by the 3B ump. Great play by DeJesus. Costs Reed another 2B.

Reed has no business up here right now.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:52 PM
Bad pitch locations by Reed this inning. Ozuna double.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 02:54 PM
Missed call by the 3B ump. Great play by DeJesus. Costs Reed another 2B.

Reed has no business up here right now.

I used to think that Lamb was the odd man out when Homer finally returns. No longer. Reed has to to go.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 02:55 PM
Just watching Reed, without examining any stats, I'd tell him to throw more fastballs and fewer sliders.

I know his slider is considered his best pitch, but he has a 94-95 fastball and he needs to use the slider to deceive hitters.

Guys seem to be just waiting for that slider.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 02:58 PM
Just watching Reed, without examining any stats, I'd tell him to throw more fastballs and fewer sliders.

I know his slider is considered his best pitch, but he has a 94-95 fastball and he needs to use the slider to deceive hitters.

Guys seem to be just waiting for that slider.

It's starting to sound like an even bigger issue is there's not a great deal of mph differential between the fastball and the slider. They mentioned that they want him to throw the change-up a lot more, although he lacks confidence in it.

Either way, the location of the pitches is what has been killing him.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 02:58 PM
I'll be the one to say there was still definite improvement from Reed, the stuff continues to impress and a little help from his catcher could only help. He should be in Louisville though, I don't understand the Reds stubbornness in that regard.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 03:02 PM
I'll be the one to say there was still definite improvement from Reed, the stuff continues to impress and a little help from his catcher could only help. He should be in Louisville though, I don't understand the Reds stubbornness in that regard.

Reed was dominant at AAA. Not sure what more AAA time is going to do for him.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 03:03 PM
I'll be the one to say there was still definite improvement from Reed, the stuff continues to impress and a little help from his catcher could only help. He should be in Louisville though, I don't understand the Reds stubbornness in that regard.

I agree with all of this.

In Fl myself, so this is a rarw chance for me to see Reed. His stuff, especially that slider, is ridiculous. But he's just not ready to be up here quite yet, and he was VERY unlucky today.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 03:04 PM
I agree with all of this.

In Fl myself, so this is a rarw chance for me to see Reed. His stuff, especially that slider, is ridiculous. But he's just not ready to be up here quite yet, and he was VERY unlucky today.

How is more AAA time going to make him readier? What does he need to work on at AAA?

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:07 PM
Reed was dominant at AAA. Not sure what more AAA time is going to do for him.
He was dominant at first, but he still had limited experience overall in the high minors. He struggled more in his last few starts before his callup (4.88 ERA)

I was on record for saying I thought Reed should stay in AAA until July.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 03:08 PM
How is more AAA time going to make him readier? What does he need to work on at AAA?

Keeping the ball down in the strike zone would be one thing.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 03:08 PM
That umpire is struggling.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:09 PM
How is more AAA time going to make him readier? What does he need to work on at AAA?
Pitch location and changeup. Only 2 HRs allowed in his first 40.2 innings in AAA, 4 allowed in his last 24 in AAA. And obviously we've seen the HR problem in the majors.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 03:09 PM
I hate how everyone gestures for replay after every call that goes against them. (Just like how WR's reach into their hip pockets for imaginary yellow flags after every ball that they fail to catch.)

Kc61
07-10-2016, 03:13 PM
He was dominant at first, but he still had limited experience overall in the high minors. He struggled more in his last few starts before his callup (4.88 ERA)

I was on record for saying I thought Reed should stay in AAA until July.

It's July, he hasn't been up that long.

I'd like to see Reed work with the major league guys. Power, Jenkins, Price. I'd like to see him use his fastball more.

If it were me, I'd give Keyvius his starting spot until Homer is ready. Only a few weeks at most.

In the meantime, I'd put Reed in the bullpen and work extensively with him on the side.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:16 PM
It's July, he hasn't been up that long.

I'd like to see Reed work with the major league guys. Power, Jenkins, Price. I'd like to see him use his fastball more.

If it were me, I'd give Keyvius his starting spot until Homer is ready. Only a few weeks at most.

In the meantime, I'd put Reed in the bullpen and work extensively with him on the side.
I don't see what the bullpen accomplishes, if anything working out of there would only hinder his progress.

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:17 PM
Maybe it's me, but on TV it looked to me like Reed was shaking as he was checking the signs. I wonder if nerves are playing havoc with his location? No way to really know, but the people in the dugout would. If that is what it is, AAA isn't going to help him IMO. He didn't have that problem locating down there and the plate and the players are about the same size. If there is really stuff he wasn't doing down there and getting away with it, then he needs to go down and fix it, but if this is a problem related specifically to being in the big leagues , I don't see how going down will help. Seems like nerves to me though and I think that only goes away with adjusting in the big leagues. The defense hasn't helped him much in he last couple of games.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 03:17 PM
This team has checked out mentally. And that is ultimately on Price.

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:18 PM
This team looks like they are ready for a vacation and don't seem to have their heads into playing.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 03:19 PM
Was in a car for about 1.5 hours today, so caught the first 5 innings or so on radio. Marty was blasting Votto for not making any effort to field the passed ball that went off of Barnhart's shin guard. I know, Marty isn't shy about ripping Votto, but Brantley was also very vocal that Votto fell asleep at the wheel.

Was the play really that egregious on Votto's part? Perhaps he didn't see the ball for whatever reason?

Of course Marty took it too far and was saying things like "Joey Votto had the best seat in the house for that play." And "He was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage."

They were also very critical of Votto not tagging from second to third on a deep fly to right by Duvall. Cowboy goes: "The All-Star break starts tomorrow, right?" Marty said: "I think Joey Votto thinks it started today."

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:20 PM
This team has checked out mentally. And that is ultimately on Price.

Beat me to it Klu. The worst part is that Votto and Phillips seem to be the worst offenders. Just like they do on the bases.We need a mental error acronym similar to TOOTBLAN.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 03:20 PM
I don't see what the bullpen accomplishes, if anything working out of there would only hinder his progress.

Funny, I don't see what AAA accomplishes. The Reds now have Power, Price and Jenkins on the big club. Can't imagine a stronger triumverate to work with Reed.

Let him take a few week break, put him in the pen to get an occasional stint. Let him learn from these guys how to work to major league hitters.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 03:20 PM
I was about to post these exact same things ^^^^

These guys have quit

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:22 PM
Was in a car for about 1.5 hours today, so caught the first 5 innings or so on radio. Marty was blasting Votto for not making any effort to field the passed ball that went off of Barnhart's shin guard. I know, Marty isn't shy about ripping Votto, but Brantley was also very vocal that Votto fell asleep at the wheel.

Was the play really that egregious on Votto's part? Perhaps he didn't see the ball for whatever reason?

Of course Marty took it too far and was saying things like "Joey Votto had the best seat in the house for that play." And "He was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage."

They were also very critical of Votto not tagging from second to third on a deep fly to right by Duvall. Cowboy goes: "The All-Star break starts tomorrow, right?" Marty said: "I think Joey Votto thinks it started today."

I missed the first few innings as well, but based on what I've seen since, Marty is on to something. It's not just Votto.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 03:22 PM
Was in a car for about 1.5 hours today, so caught the first 5 innings or so on radio. Marty was blasting Votto for not making any effort to field the passed ball that went off of Barnhart's shin guard. I know, Marty isn't shy about ripping Votto, but Brantley was also very vocal that Votto fell asleep at the wheel.

Was the play really that egregious on Votto's part? Perhaps he didn't see the ball for whatever reason?

Of course Marty took it too far and was saying things like "Joey Votto had the best seat in the house for that play." And "He was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage."

I heard Marty say that too. I wish he would retire.

TheBigLebowski
07-10-2016, 03:23 PM
Made Another Error Because Laziness Abounds. MAEBLA.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 03:23 PM
I missed the first few innings as well, but based on what I've seen since, Marty is on to something. It's not just Votto.

I'm sure very few on this board will allow themselves to admit Marty is right.

I have no idea if he's right about the Votto play. I'm hoping someone who saw the play can shed some light on that. Was it really that awful of a play (non-play) by Votto?

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:24 PM
Was in a car for about 1.5 hours today, so caught the first 5 innings or so on radio. Marty was blasting Votto for not making any effort to field the passed ball that went off of Barnhart's shin guard. I know, Marty isn't shy about ripping Votto, but Brantley was also very vocal that Votto fell asleep at the wheel.

Was the play really that egregious on Votto's part? Perhaps he didn't see the ball for whatever reason?

Of course Marty took it too far and was saying things like "Joey Votto had the best seat in the house for that play." And "He was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage."

They were also very critical of Votto not tagging from second to third on a deep fly to right by Duvall. Cowboy goes: "The All-Star break starts tomorrow, right?" Marty said: "I think Joey Votto thinks it started today."With Phillips right beside him, Votto broke toward second base while Phillips was there to get the ball and didn't get back to the bag in time. Mental error. Then Brandon didn't break on a pitchout where the runner was going and those led to runs. Mentally, this team is toast. You think it wouldn't benefit the future to fire Price. I disagree, but that's one opinion.

Might also say, Kelch and Chris had the same opinion about both of those plays. It was not Marty being Marty. It was inexcusable.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:24 PM
I have no idea if he's right about the Votto play. I'm hoping someone who saw the play can shed some light on that. Was it really that awful of a play (non-play) by Votto?
No. Even if Votto IMMEDIATELY ran to that ball, the odds were not good he throws out Hechaverria. The fault on that play lays entirely on Barnhart, he whiffed on catching it before it hit the shin guard and went flying towards the 1st base dugout side.

That said, Votto has made some poor plays today. But that one had nothing to do with him.

GADawg
07-10-2016, 03:24 PM
Beat me to it Klu. The worst part is that Votto and Phillips seem to be the worst offenders. Just like they do on the bases.We need a mental error acronym similar to TOOTBLAN.

I know it's VERY popular to climb on BP around here but what mental lapse has he had?

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 03:25 PM
With Phillips right beside him, Votto broke toward second base while Phillips was there to get the ball and didn't get back to the bag in time. Mental error. Then Brandon didn't break on a pitchout where the runner was going and those led to runs. Mentally, this team is toast. You think it wouldn't benefit the future to fire Price. I disagree, but that's one opinion.

Whoa, where did you get that I don't think it would be good to fire Price? I absolutely want Price fired.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 03:27 PM
No. Even if Votto IMMEDIATELY ran to that ball, the odds were not good he throws out Hechaverria. The fault on that play lays entirely on Barnhart, he whiffed on catching it before it hit the shin guard and went flying towards the 1st base dugout side.

That said, Votto has made some poor plays today. But that one had nothing to do with him.

Man, even Cowboy was ripping him. Saying he couldn't believe Votto made no effort to get to the ball. He was basically calling Votto lazy without using that exact word.

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:28 PM
Whoa, where did you get that I don't think it would be good to fire Price? I absolutely want Price fired.Bad typing. The You was rhetorical. Meaning whoever. I know you and I agree on that. Some do not.

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:29 PM
I know it's VERY popular to climb on BP around here but what mental lapse has he had?

See post 103. Also made another Tootblan getting thrown out at home.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 03:30 PM
Just a heads-up: "Joey Votto was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage" might be my new sig.

Why would that even be bad? I like on-base percentage. High ones. Now, if he was daydreaming about "fancy coffees, pedicures and designer clothes" I might be concerned. ;)

- - - Updated - - -


Bad typing. The You was rhetorical. Meaning whoever. I know you and I agree on that. Some do not.

Oh, I hear ya. Makes sense.

oregonred
07-10-2016, 03:30 PM
FWIW, Marlins TV announces absolutely shredded Datdude for his laziness in not covering 2B on the pitchout...

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:31 PM
Man, even Cowboy was ripping him. Saying he couldn't believe Votto made no effort to get to the ball. He was basically calling Votto lazy without using that exact word.
http://m.reds.mlb.com/cin/video/v918086383?game_pk=448190

Here's the play. Not a great view of Votto, but again, I don't see a scenario where he throws out the runner unless you assume Joey has Billy Hamilton speed and a perfect arm to boot.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 03:33 PM
Man, even Cowboy was ripping him. Saying he couldn't believe Votto made no effort to get to the ball. He was basically calling Votto lazy without using that exact word.

He was (very) slow out of the gate, and that looked bad. But I agree with Tom and Ron that he very likely had no chance to make a play on that ball.

That being said, Votto has played poorly on defense today. But he's not the only one. Phillips has checked out on a play or two, and Barnhart has been especially bad today.

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:35 PM
Looks like we will go into the AS break at 32-57, that's 25 games under .500. That's bad.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 03:36 PM
Was in a car for about 1.5 hours today, so caught the first 5 innings or so on radio. Marty was blasting Votto for not making any effort to field the passed ball that went off of Barnhart's shin guard. I know, Marty isn't shy about ripping Votto, but Brantley was also very vocal that Votto fell asleep at the wheel.

Was the play really that egregious on Votto's part? Perhaps he didn't see the ball for whatever reason?

Of course Marty took it too far and was saying things like "Joey Votto had the best seat in the house for that play." And "He was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage."

They were also very critical of Votto not tagging from second to third on a deep fly to right by Duvall. Cowboy goes: "The All-Star break starts tomorrow, right?" Marty said: "I think Joey Votto thinks it started today."

It was fair critique on this day. He just looks like he's ready for the break.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 03:36 PM
Looks like we will go into the AS break at 32-57, that's 25 games under .500. That's bad.

Game ain't over yet

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:37 PM
Game ain't over yetFor sure.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 03:37 PM
I know Votto earns a fortune, but I'll cut him some slack here.

This isn't an ideal situation for the veterans on the club. If once in awhile they have a lapse, I can understand it.

Guys like Votto, Phillips, they play hard, they try, they care. Must be hard to focus every play on a horrendous team going nowhere.

As long as it doesn't happen every day. I will say the "on base percentage" line is pretty funny.

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:38 PM
Regarding Price. Do you really think another Manager is going to make Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips play smarter? Those are the guys the Manager should be able to lean on, not the ones he needs to get in line. I could see it if Jose Peraza or Eugenio Suarez were the guys taking plays off. A new Manager isn't going to get Votto and Phillips to play smarter. Again, not a huge Price fan, but this is placing blame in the wrong place.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 03:42 PM
OT: This Skyline commercial cracks me up every time when she says "They sit you down with crackers."

JaxRed
07-10-2016, 03:42 PM
Does Jeff Conine broadcast for the Fish? I have a ball that I would like for him to sign some day.

Yes. On the TV team

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:42 PM
I recall Votto really looking kind of shot in the days before the ASB last year too. If he plays like he did last year in the 2nd half this year, I won't mind it at all.

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:43 PM
Regarding Price. Do you really think another Manager is going to make Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips play smarter? Those are the guys the Manager should be able to lean on, not the ones he needs to get in line. I could see it if Jose Peraza or Eugenio Suarez were the guys taking plays off. A new Manager isn't going to get Votto and Phillips to play smarter. Again, not a huge Price fan, but this is placing blame in the wrong place.Probably, that has some merit, but as someone said on MLB Network the other day, with so many young players on the team, to allow plays like that to be ignored, teaches the youngsters to learn to lose and accept it. Maybe off base somewhat, but I got me to thinking. For what it's worth. I doubt Joey and Brandon are clubhouse leaders anyway. And neither is Price.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 03:45 PM
I'm sure very few on this board will allow themselves to admit Marty is right.

I have no idea if he's right about the Votto play. I'm hoping someone who saw the play can shed some light on that. Was it really that awful of a play (non-play) by Votto?

Mentally, it was bad. He had BP playing in the hole, so there was no reason to take a step that way to begin with. Then he didn't show a lot of haste getting back to the bag. No error on the play, but poor Josh Smith gets tagged with a bunch of runs when he should have gotten out of the inning.

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:46 PM
OT: This Skyline commercial cracks me up every time when she says "They sit you down with crackers.":)

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 03:46 PM
Things Marlins fans like:

Ichiro
Don Kelly ripping foul balls into the stands
Giancarlo Stanton hitting balls to the moon

Things Marlins fans don't like:

Everything else

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 03:51 PM
http://m.reds.mlb.com/cin/video/v918086383?game_pk=448190

Here's the play. Not a great view of Votto, but again, I don't see a scenario where he throws out the runner unless you assume Joey has Billy Hamilton speed and a perfect arm to boot.

The catcher covered about 80 feet while Votto barely crossed the first base line. If for some reason he wasn't able to see the ball, I could buy that as something of an excuse, but it had the look of being in a daze and not on his toes.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 03:53 PM
Yes. On the TV team

The only foul ball I ever got was off the bat of Jeff Conine the year he was Scott Hatteberg's running mate at 1B for the Reds.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 03:53 PM
Mentally, it was bad. He had BP playing in the hole, so there was no reason to take a step that way to begin with. Then he didn't show a lot of haste getting back to the bag. No error on the play, but poor Josh Smith gets tagged with a bunch of runs when he should have gotten out of the inning.

We're actually talking about two different plays. I was referring to the passed ball by Barnhart. Marty and Cowboy ripped Votto for not making an effort to pick up the ball that had ricocheted "near first base" (according to them).

I didn't even hear what Marty had to say about the play you are referring to. I wish I would have.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 03:55 PM
Are they saying, "Bearclaw?"

That's the awesomest name ever!

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 03:57 PM
Are they saying, "Bearclaw?"

That's the awesomest name ever!Barraclough, lol

mth123
07-10-2016, 03:57 PM
Are they saying, "Bearclaw?"

That's the awesomest name ever!

Good thing Sean Casey isn't around anymore. If he heard that he'd want to "crush" a box full.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 03:59 PM
We're actually talking about two different plays. I was referring to the passed ball by Barnhart. Marty and Cowboy ripped Votto for not making an effort to pick up the ball that had ricocheted "near first base" (according to them).

I didn't even hear what Marty had to say about the play you are referring to. I wish I would have.

Yeah. I thought you were referring to the more recent one. The fact that he had another mental lapse after that passed ball play made me even less sympathetic toward the first one.

Kc61
07-10-2016, 04:00 PM
Glad to see this "half" of the season over. I expect to see a bunch of changes coming up.

Hope they just keep piling on those good young prospects. They can't patch this up.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 04:00 PM
We're actually talking about two different plays. I was referring to the passed ball by Barnhart. Marty and Cowboy ripped Votto for not making an effort to pick up the ball that had ricocheted "near first base" (according to them).

I didn't even hear what Marty had to say about the play you are referring to. I wish I would have.

It was near first base much in the same way that Cambridge is near Columbus.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 04:01 PM
Are they saying, "Bearclaw?"

That's the awesomest name ever!

Ha. Same here. I said to myself "I wish we had a pitcher named Bearclaw (sic)."

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 04:05 PM
Losses like these are key to the rebuild if we're being honest. How many of you are enjoying Nick Senzel so far? Imagine if we would have won a few more games last year and the Braves drafted him instead.

Keep the eyes on the prize, y'all: Another top-flight pick in the 2017 draft. Heck, probably 2 top-flight picks just like this year with Senzel and Taylor Trammell.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 04:05 PM
Iggy seems to have almost too much movement on his stuff out of the pen, need to throw some more of these pitches for strikes.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 04:06 PM
It was near first base much in the same way that Cambridge is near Columbus.

Ha, you're only about an hour down the road. When I'm travelling back from the East Coast, Cambridge definitely feels close to Columbus (relatively speaking). ;)

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 04:08 PM
Dolphins Stadium (2005-06)
Dolphin Stadium (2006–09)
Land Shark Stadium (2009–10)

lol

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 04:08 PM
Iggy seems to have almost too much movement on his stuff out of the pen, need to throw some more of these pitches for strikes.

I'm still holding out hope he'll be a starter. I know some on here think that ship has sailed. I don't. If he bulks up, there is no reason he can't be a starter. Or at least give it one more shot. Everyone on here was apoplectic that Chapman was a reliever and not a starter. But everyone is cool with giving up on Iggy as a starter this fast? He's basically still a rookie.

BluegrassRedleg
07-10-2016, 04:11 PM
FWIW, Marlins TV announces absolutely shredded Datdude for his laziness in not covering 2B on the pitchout...

As was merited. No excuse for that.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 04:13 PM
Losses like these are key to the rebuild if we're being honest. How many of you are enjoying Nick Senzel so far? Imagine if we would have won a few more games last year and the Braves drafted him instead.

Keep the eyes on the prize, y'all: Another top-flight pick in the 2017 draft. Heck, probably 2 top-flight picks just like this year with Senzel and Taylor Trammell.

Honestly, I'm not particularly enjoying him at all. It seemed to me that the first 10-12 guys in this year's draft were interchangeable drill bits.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 04:15 PM
As was merited. No excuse for that.

Man, I stopped listening to Marty too soon today. I bet he was just getting warmed up.

If he was that upset at Votto for not making more of an effort to get the ball on the passed ball play, I can only imagine what he said about BP not covering second on the pitchout, and Votto making an mental error to try and field a ball in the hole (even though BP was there) and then lollygag his way back to first base.

Must have been daydreaming about on-base percentage or something.

- - - Updated - - -


Honestly, I'm not particularly enjoying him at all. It seemed to me that the first 10-12 guys in this year's draft were interchangeable drill bits.

Give it time. Senzel looks like a great pick. I know it's early, but I think the Reds landed their 3B of the future.

Chuckie
07-10-2016, 04:16 PM
And this one belongs to the Fish!

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 04:16 PM
Mercifully, the first half of the 2016 season is over.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 04:17 PM
On pace for 58-104.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 04:17 PM
Well I might be the only one but I'm gonna miss Reds Baseball till Friday.

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 04:18 PM
Reds lose. For the first time in my life, I won't miss the games over the AS break. I'm heading to Myrtle Beach on Friday where hopefully I won't have to watch this mess. Of course, the only baseball there is the Braves (Yuck), but I may hang out at their tremendous minor league park.

Tom Servo
07-10-2016, 04:19 PM
Well I might be the only one but I'm gonna miss Reds Baseball till Friday.
I briefly turned the game off in that bad 6th inning...but turned it back on the next inning when I remembered it would be days until I got another game.

Big Klu
07-10-2016, 04:19 PM
The bad news:
3-7 on the road trip.

The good news:
They did better than I expected. I had predicted 2-8.

WVRedsFan
07-10-2016, 04:21 PM
On pace for 58-104.If that happens, it would be the worst record since 1934.

Ron Madden
07-10-2016, 04:22 PM
The bad news:
3-7 on the road trip.

The good news:
They did better than I expected. I had predicted 2-8.

Tough road trip for sure.

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 06:55 PM
No. Even if Votto IMMEDIATELY ran to that ball, the odds were not good he throws out Hechaverria. The fault on that play lays entirely on Barnhart, he whiffed on catching it before it hit the shin guard and went flying towards the 1st base dugout side.

That said, Votto has made some poor plays today. But that one had nothing to do with him.

Disagree if he ran immediately.

The fault of the play is on Barnhart obviously without any debate...complete physical gaffe. Votto wasn't ready to help on the odd play and was caught off guard...then broke to help. It was a slight mental gaffe and no other way about it.

Not tagging to go to 3rd was odd too. It didn't affect anything but what was he thinking? Ball was either caught or a HR.

The not great toss to Reed...no problem there. Wasn't a great toss but not an easy play.

GADawg
07-10-2016, 07:13 PM
See post 103. Also made another Tootblan getting thrown out at home.

Did he run a stop sign?

Ironman92
07-10-2016, 07:48 PM
Was in a car for about 1.5 hours today, so caught the first 5 innings or so on radio. Marty was blasting Votto for not making any effort to field the passed ball that went off of Barnhart's shin guard. I know, Marty isn't shy about ripping Votto, but Brantley was also very vocal that Votto fell asleep at the wheel.

Was the play really that egregious on Votto's part? Perhaps he didn't see the ball for whatever reason?

Of course Marty took it too far and was saying things like "Joey Votto had the best seat in the house for that play." And "He was probably daydreaming about on-base percentage."

They were also very critical of Votto not tagging from second to third on a deep fly to right by Duvall. Cowboy goes: "The All-Star break starts tomorrow, right?" Marty said: "I think Joey Votto thinks it started today."

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160710/1b2f8484a936ec767ffe17e9afc38c6e.jpg

cumberlandreds
07-11-2016, 08:10 AM
The bad news:
3-7 on the road trip.

The good news:
They did better than I expected. I had predicted 2-8.

Baby steps. Tiny,tiny baby steps. :)

I'm afraid this team is what I thought it was at the beginning of the season. Just a hot mess that was put together that will probably set a team record for losses. Very alarming and very sad how far this franchise fell so quickly.

Raisor
07-11-2016, 08:54 AM
Baby steps. Tiny,tiny baby steps. :)

I'm afraid this team is what I thought it was at the beginning of the season. Just a hot mess that was put together that will probably set a team record for losses. Very alarming and very sad how far this franchise fell so quickly.

It's a rebuild.

Big Klu
07-11-2016, 09:54 AM
It's a rebuild.

No, it's a teardown. I've yet to see any rebuilding taking place.

cumberlandreds
07-11-2016, 10:03 AM
No, it's a teardown. I've yet to see any rebuilding taking place.

Exactly. I have seen very little hope in the players they have brought up that will help them be contender anytime in the future. I don't see much hope in the minor system either. All they have done is tear apart. I have always said you can be competitive while rebuliding. Apparently the Reds think otherwise. I think they will pay severely at the box office in the coming seasons.

Tom Servo
07-11-2016, 10:09 AM
You can dislike the players they acquired, but that still doesn't make it a 'teardown'. Frazier is the only guy they have traded who wasn't a pending free agent within the year.

cumberlandreds
07-11-2016, 10:12 AM
You can dislike the players they acquired, but that still doesn't make it a 'teardown'. Frazier is the only guy they have traded who wasn't a pending free agent within the year.

How about demolition? :)

Johnny5
07-11-2016, 11:44 AM
It's a rebuild.

Not yet... Still a tear down...

Johnny5
07-11-2016, 11:46 AM
You can dislike the players they acquired, but that still doesn't make it a 'teardown'. Frazier is the only guy they have traded who wasn't a pending free agent within the year.


The Chapman deal was terrible... Panicked move by Jocketty

- - - Updated - - -


Exactly. I have seen very little hope in the players they have brought up that will help them be contender anytime in the future. I don't see much hope in the minor system either. All they have done is tear apart. I have always said you can be competitive while rebuliding. Apparently the Reds think otherwise. I think they will pay severely at the box office in the coming seasons.

Bingo