Lamb optioned to Louisville; Waldrop up

[Tom Servo]

Cincinnati Reds
@reds
Reds option to Louisville LHP John Lamb, recall from Louisville OF Kyle Waldrop (#30).

[Tuff Nut]

Can't be the worst thing, for Lamb. He has had his moments, though few, but if he can right the ship in Louisville, he can be a valuable arm. Right now I don't see him as a rotation piece, but could give a spot start or two if need be.

[WrongVerb]

Hopefully he rights the ship quickly. He's got the arm to pitch in the majors, but something is really off about him now.

[lollipopcurve]

IMO, he has to work fastball-cutter-changeup primarily and reduce use of that slow curve. I think hitters either sit on it or see it enough that they can adjust. I may be wrong about this because I have no idea what the numbers show. Ultimately, unless he can get that fastball consistently 91-92 I think he's going to struggle. May just be this is a year when he's bouncing back from injury. I hope so, because I think he has the potential to be a reliable starter, fastball willing.

[Tom Servo]

Zach Buchanan ‏@ZachENQ 13m13 minutes ago
Options Price mentioned to replace Lamb are Tim Adleman, currently on rehab assignment, or skipping that spot with the upcoming off day

[HalKing]

Zach Buchanan ‏@ZachENQ 13m13 minutes ago
Options Price mentioned to replace Lamb are Tim Adleman, currently on rehab assignment, or skipping that spot with the upcoming off day



For what very little this is worth, Adleman looked very sharp last night in his rehab appearance in Louisville. Considering he fared reasonably well in his early season appearances with Cincy I would think he could at least another look. He and Lamb both may be bullpen arms when it is all said and done.

[RED VAN HOT]

IMO, he has to work fastball-cutter-changeup primarily and reduce use of that slow curve. I think hitters either sit on it or see it enough that they can adjust. I may be wrong about this because I have no idea what the numbers show. Ultimately, unless he can get that fastball consistently 91-92 I think he's going to struggle. May just be this is a year when he's bouncing back from injury. I hope so, because I think he has the potential to be a reliable starter, fastball willing.

You beat me to it. The 68 mph curve is devastating if used less often. Great speed differentials on his pitches. 91 is fast enough on the fastball if command if good. Good move to let him work on command with less advanced hitters.

[Kc61]

Lamb is more proof that it's not enough to look at K rate in evaluating a prospect pitcher.

The first goal for a GABP pitcher is to avoid home runs. Lamb could not do this.

Most successful GABP pitchers combine high ground ball rates with solid K rates. Cueto, Bailey all eventually achieved this.

They will likely try to teach Lamb to throw more grounders and not to leave so many pitches in the hit zone.

Good luck to him, but IMO he has a better chance in the bullpen where he can concentrate on a couple of pitches facing fewer hitters at a time.

[Tom Servo]

Lamb is more proof that it's not enough to look at K rate in evaluating a prospect pitcher.

The first goal for a GABP pitcher is to avoid home runs. Lamb could not do this.
Right, but were Lamb's 10 starts last year really enough to form a viable consensus that the HR/9 was going to be a definitive problem moving forward? It wasn't an issue he had in the minors, it was reasonable to think that in a small sample size that it was a bit fluky.

[Kc61]

Right, but were Lamb's 10 starts last year really enough to form a viable consensus that the HR/9 was going to be a definitive problem moving forward? It wasn't an issue he had in the minors, it was reasonable to think that in a small sample size that it was a bit fluky.

I don't think last year was definitive. Indeed, this year isn't definitive. But both years demonstrated problems that some people fluffed off because of K rates.

Some saw those problems as meaningful. Such as high pitch counts, inability to get deep into games, and home run balls.

Maybe this year is the fluke, Lamb coming off injury. Nobody knows the future (LOL, not even sabermatricians!). But seems to me he'd be better off trying the bullpen. Hard to see this pitcher succeeding over 180-200 innings.

[Redus]

Hopefully he rights the ship quickly. He's got the arm to pitch in the majors, but something is really off about him now.

Good thing we have that acclaimed pitching coach managing the team (Insert eyeroll here)

[dougdirt]

Goof thing we have that acclaimed pitching coach managing the team (Insert eyeroll here)

Can't execute for them.

[Redus]

Zach Buchanan ‏@ZachENQ 13m13 minutes ago
Options Price mentioned to replace Lamb are Tim Adleman, currently on rehab assignment, or skipping that spot with the upcoming off day

More interested in if Lamb or Adleman mentioned options to replace Price....

[Old school 1983]

I don't think last year was definitive. Indeed, this year isn't definitive. But both years demonstrated problems that some people fluffed off because of K rates.

Some saw those problems as meaningful. Such as high pitch counts, inability to get deep into games, and home run balls.

Maybe this year is the fluke, Lamb coming off injury. Nobody knows the future (LOL, not even sabermatricians!). But seems to me he'd be better off trying the bullpen. Hard to see this pitcher succeeding over 180-200 innings.

I wanted to see Lamb get some starts just to see. It wasn't like he was taking starts from anyone important. I think it's time for him in the pen unless he just lights up AAA. He has the ability to be a solid LOOGY IMO

[OhioRiverBarge]

Lamb-Iglesias-Lorenzen-Finnigan: future bullpen.

Disco-Bailey-Reed-Stephenson-Garrett rotation.

I think we have some light at the end of the tunnel with those 9 guys getting most the innings. I'm confident it'll all fall together. With Lamb it was probably only a matter of time before his role was redefined. They may keep him starting with the Bats for a minute, but you gotta think that having him in the bullpen is written on the wall.

[mth123]

Lamb-Iglesias-Lorenzen-Finnigan: future bullpen.

Disco-Bailey-Reed-Stephenson-Garrett rotation.

I think we have some light at the end of the tunnel with those 9 guys getting most the innings. I'm confident it'll all fall together. With Lamb it was probably only a matter of time before his role was redefined. They may keep him starting with the Bats for a minute, but you gotta think that having him in the bullpen is written on the wall.

I think it's premature to assume he'd be any good out there either. I'd keep Straily and Cingrani around.

[Kc61]

I wanted to see Lamb get some starts just to see. It wasn't like he was taking starts from anyone important. I think it's time for him in the pen unless he just lights up AAA. He has the ability to be a solid LOOGY IMO

Even though I always saw Lamb in the pen - I too favored him in the rotation this year. The whole rotation was injured. And I felt he deserved the opportunity to start for another season.

I would be surprised if the Reds use Lamb in the pen at AAA. They just seem very reluctant to convert pitchers to relievers, except if injury requires.

[KronoRed]

He needs to cut that hair, it's bad luck.

[Tom Servo]

He needs to cut that hair, it's bad luck.
I thought he had kind of a cool look when he first came to the Reds org last year, not sure why he decided to go kind of nuts with it.

http://mycn2.com/images/10920.jpg

[OhioRiverBarge]

I think it's premature to assume he'd be any good out there either. I'd keep Straily and Cingrani around.

I hope I'm wrong, and nothing to diss his season or what he did today, but the guy is hopefully either a fill-in for the next season or two, or trade-bait. IMO, we're witnessing his ceiling this year.

[OGB]

I hope I'm wrong, and nothing to diss his season or what he did today, but the guy is hopefully either a fill-in for the next season or two, or trade-bait. IMO, we're witnessing his ceiling this year.

If this is his ceiling, how is he trade bait?

[OhioRiverBarge]

If this is his ceiling, how is he trade bait?

Exactly

[mth123]

I hope I'm wrong, and nothing to diss his season or what he did today, but the guy is hopefully either a fill-in for the next season or two, or trade-bait. IMO, we're witnessing his ceiling this year.

Assume you are talking about Straily. Until there are 5 better starters, he stays IMO. Right now, I count 1. You also may want to keep him to provide some flexibility to deal somebody else (Bailey and that contract, come on down). I also don't see 7 good relievers yet. Bailey is coming off 2 consecutive elbow surgeries, Reed, Stephenson and Garrett are just prospects and are not guarantees as much as we'd like to hope so. I'm not convinced on Finnegan as a starter yet and I'm pretty convinced that Lamb and Moscot never will be. The next wave is still 2018 or later away and again, just prospects, no guarantees.

I think you hope to open 2017 with Desclafani, Finnegan, Bailey, Reed and Stephenson with Straily around in case one of the 4 question marks crashes and burns. If they all work out, shop Bailey hard at the deadline with the idea of Garrett taking his spot. Still, Straily in the pen and ready to move to the rotation if it doesn't work out. Iglesias, Cingrani, Lorenzen, Wood, Smith, Lamb and Straily would be the relief guys. Moscot and Sampson would be in AAA ready to go and maybe some of the minor league relievers (Peralta, Routt, Chacin, Hernandez, Herget) may get a look, but I'm not holding my breath for any of them. Most of the other journeymen who've stopgapped this year should be gone or minor league insurance. Both Diaz boys, Hoover, Ohlendorf, Morris, Adelman, Simon, Hayes, Melville need to go to make way for younger guys coming up. This year's AA Rotation would be getting ready in AAA (Stephens, Travieso, Romano, Davis along with Garrett). Mahle, Mella and Antone would be in AA to start.

Based on that plan, Lamb is probably the weakest link at this point.

That would be the makings of a sustainable staff for the next several years. Replacements for injuries, guys progressing to replace guys who start to get expensive, estabished trade pieces to bring in more guys to keep the pipeline stocked.

[cumberlandreds]

Lamb for the most part has been awful. They had to send him back down. He needs to take Reed with him too. Reed needs a lot of work on his command and probably another pitch,

[Redus]

Can't execute for them.

And as far as Prices execution goes.....Im ALL for it.

[Big Klu]

Based on that plan, Lamb is probably the weakest link at this point.

Goodbye!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/08/23/2879258100000578-0-image-a-21_1431124060908.jpg

[TRF]

My take is he's coming off a back injury, and it won't surprise me to find out it's hurting. His K rate is waaaay down. He's not managing his pitches well, but I don't know how much of that is on him, his catcher or Price.

Adleman might be an option to replace him in the rotation, but Sampson went 4 and did ok to stop the bleeding Saturday. Why not him?

I'd likely leave Lamb (and I'm a big supporter of his) in Louisville the rest of the year. Just let him strengthen and work out his kinks. Then call him back up in September. He can be an option to limit innings for Finnegan or Reed or whomever.

[KronoRed]

I thought he had kind of a cool look when he first came to the Reds org last year, not sure why he decided to go kind of nuts with it.

http://mycn2.com/images/10920.jpg

This guy looks like a pitcher, right now he looks like someone who should be driving a VW bus after the Greatfull dead.

[Roy Tucker]

He needs to cut that hair, it's bad luck.

I believe the proper term for Lamb is shorn.

[mth123]

So, looking at tonight's game notes, it sounds like Sampson is starting tomorrow in Lamb's vacated spot. Not sure if I'm the last to know, but hadn't seen that posted. No Stephenson. No Bailey (which we knew). I'm not high on Sampson, but this is the right call IMO.

[Tom Servo]

So, looking at tonight's game notes, it sounds like Sampson is starting tomorrow in Lamb's vacated spot. Not sure if I'm the last to know, but hadn't seen that posted. No Stephenson. No Bailey (which we knew). I'm not high on Sampson, but this is the right call IMO.
It was announced a few days ago as a one-off for Sampson.

[Tom Servo]

Lamb is starting tonight in Louisville btw, up against former Reds farmhand Ben Lively.

[camisadelgolf]

If Lamb's command were more consistent, he'd be a #3 starter on most teams. The only chance he has of compensating for that is adding a tick or two to his fastball. But until then, he's the kind of starter who will throw some clunkers between a few gems.

[Patrick Bateman]

If Lamb's command were more consistent, he'd be a #3 starter on most teams. The only chance he has of compensating for that is adding a tick or two to his fastball. But until then, he's the kind of starter who will throw some clunkers between a few gems.

I also think his offspeed stuff is pretty north-south, so when he misses, hitters are just murdering it. Not a lot of room for error. A couple miles an hour would do him a lot of good in the bullpen.

[Tom Servo]

Lamb struck out 10 batters in 5.2 innings tonight in Louisville btw, but allowed 3 runs.

[RedTeamGo!]

Lamb struck out 10 batters in 5.2 innings tonight in Louisville btw, but allowed 3 runs.

And Schebler went 3-4 with a home run.

Methinks we are looking at two AAAA players.

I really really hope I am wrong.

[Tom Servo]

And Schebler went 3-4 with a home run.

Methinks we are looking at two AAAA players.

I really really hope I am wrong.
Lamb I can see, he's made 24 starts and hasn't overly impressed. Schebler, I'm really not sure why Redszone is down on. I thought all along that he should have started the year in AAA, so his brief Reds stint didn't change anything in my mind. He is much, much better this year than last year in AAA, and I think is ready for the big leagues now.

[RedTeamGo!]

Lamb I can see, he's made 24 starts and hasn't overly impressed. Schebler, I'm really not sure why Redszone is down on. I thought all along that he should have started the year in AAA, so his brief Reds stint didn't change anything in my mind. He is much, much better this year than last year in AAA, and I think is ready for the big leagues now.

I think it's because he is like 45 years old.

[Tom Servo]

I think it's because he is like 45 years old.

He just LOOKS 45 because of that hairline. He turns 26 in the offseason, the same age that Todd Frazier was in 2012.

[mth123]

He just LOOKS 45 because of that hairline. He turns 26 in the offseason, the same age that Todd Frazier was in 2012.

Frazier didn't have the huge down season in a hitters league that Schebler did though. He was stalled by an ill fated shift to 2B and a lack of openings on the corners in the big leagues. Votto and Rolen and Bruce had 1b, 3b and RF locked up tight. People forget that in 2011, when Fraizer probably should have been recalled, Jonny Gomes was coming off a decent year (fueled by one hot month IMO) and Chris Heisey put up a .797 OPS (112 OPS+) with 18 HR and well above average defense and speed getting the RH PAs in the OF in 2011. He was in line in front of FRazier for any LF time that would have been out there. There really wasn't a place to put Frazier. Schebler stalled because of his performance. Schebler is performing now and is in kind of the same spot Frazier was in 2011. It's going to take an injury or a trade to open a spot, but Schebler did have that down year in a big time hitters league and he wasn't too young when it happened either. I get the parallel with FRazier, but there is a lot more reason to be skeptical of Schebler than there was of Frazier at the time. Even so, I expected Frazier to be an offensive minded multi-position type and didn't expect a consistent power source when he came up. That isn't an option with Schebler either making his mountain to climb a little bigger IMO.

My mind is a lot more open about Schebler than it was a couple months ago. He deserves a shot, but I'd still be surprised if he becomes more than a 300 PA tandem guy and his defense doesn't really suggest a guy like that would be hugely useful in that role because he's probably limited to LF unless something disastrous happens. If he had the arm for RF and could get some reps at say 1B to get him in there more often, I'd feel better about him as a piece on the team long term.

[Kc61]

I think Schebler has potential to be a better all around hitter than Frazier. I said potential, not saying it will happen.

Frazier has huge power, I doubt Schebler can match that although he has good power too. Frazier has more defensive value.

But Schebler has had 19.2% and 18.9% K rates in the last two seasons at AAA. (Frazier's AAA K rates were higher.). In today's baseball, for hitters with power, those are very good percentages. And it encompasses 760 PAs.

I think Schebler will be a different type of hitter than Frazier, a bit less power, but perhaps less prone to long slumps and the high K rates that have held Frazier back somewhat.