9/8/16 - Reds @ Pittsburgh

[Tom Servo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cr2ylaMVYAAT5ky.jpg

[klw]

What is the over/under on HBP? 5?

[Ironman92]

What is the over/under on HBP? 5?

I'll go with threeve

[Raisor]

I was bit by a mosquito today. It's been nice knowing all of you. Except Chip.

[Raisor]

Update:

Pirates score two somehow.

My mosquito bite isn't as itchy as it was.

[Tom Servo]

Regression punching Straily in the face right now.

[Raisor]

Regression punching Straily in the face right now.

speaking of punching someone in the face, where's Chip?

[Tom Servo]

Oof, Peraza and Schebler with a minor collision but no apparent damage. The danger of putting an infielder in the outfield.

[Larkin Fan]

With the way that the Reds are playing defensively tonight, they are reminding me of the Cubs from a few yeas ago. So maybe there is hope? ;)

[Big Klu]

I was bit by a mosquito today. It's been nice knowing all of you. Except Chip.

Zika?

[Larkin Fan]

I was bit by a mosquito today. It's been nice knowing all of you. Except Chip.

Have you been tested for Zika? In case you're pregnant, and all.

[Tom Servo]

Nova with 3 perfect innings.

[Big Klu]

And here we go. Straily hits Kang.

[Tom Servo]

lol it's happening

[klw]

Regression punching Straily in the face right now.

Its my bad. Apparently Straily is bad if I even post in the game thread when he pitches. I thought it was just if I started the thread.

[Raisor]

Zika?

It's better than having Zima.

- - - Updated - - -


Have you been tested for Zika? In case you're pregnant, and all.

That's so funny I forgot to laugh

[Tom Servo]

Straily labors through a scoreless third, top of the Pirates order will bat for the 3rd time in the 4th. Reds still haven't had a baserunner.

[klw]

Straily labors through a scoreless third, top of the Pirates order will bat for the 3rd time in the 4th. Reds still haven't had a baserunner.

So are you saying Nova has a perfect game going?

[Tom Servo]

Two groundouts so far for Jose, not bringing the Havoc yet.

[Big Klu]

It's better than having Zima.

Isn't that the truth!

[Big Klu]

So George Grande thinks that Roberto Clemente's number should be retired by all clubs in MLB. I strongly disagree.

[Tom Servo]

George telling Roberto Clemente stories. I just remembered Thom saying how Neil Walker (born 1985) grew up watching Clemente at the old Pirates stadium lol.

[Chip R]

What is the over/under on HBP? 5?

For the game or the series?

[Big Klu]

George telling Roberto Clemente stories. I just remembered Thom saying how Neil Walker (born 1985) grew up watching Clemente at the old Pirates stadium lol.

Obviously THom meant Willie Stargell. ;)

[Big Klu]

For the game or the series?

That's two. Straily plunks Harrison.

[RedlegJake]

So George Grande thinks that Roberto Clemente's number should be retired by all clubs in MLB. I strongly disagree.

That's what a young death with heroic overtones will do for your legacy. You hear talk about Clemente today it's like he was a giant among boys. He was a star, don't get me wrong on that, but he has become an overrated star, imo, due to his tragic end.

[Big Klu]

That's what a young death with heroic overtones will do for your legacy. You hear talk about Clemente today it's like he was a giant among boys. He was a star, don't get me wrong on that, but he has become an overrated star, imo, due to his tragic end.

I got into an argument with a friend of mine who is a Pirates fan about Clemente's All-Star credentials. He kept going on about Clemente being the top outfielder in the NL throughout his career. I reminded him that, although Clemente often was a Pirates representative to the Midsummer Classic, he generally was unable to crack the NL starting OF due to the presence of Frank Robinson, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron.

[Mutaman]

The great Roberto could throw the ball from right field to third base on a fly. aaron couldn't do that. He didn't have to- he always hit the cut off man.

[Larkin Fan]

It's better than having Zima.

- - - Updated - - -



That's so funny I forgot to laugh

May have actually been brain inflammation that made you forget to laugh!

[Chip R]

May have actually been brain inflammation that made you forget to laugh!

Incorrect diagnosis, Dr. He'd have to have a brain first.

[RiverRat13]

I'll admit it... I was rooting for the Reds to hit about six guys while Nova kept a perfect game just to see if Clint Hurdle's head would literally explode.

[klw]

For the game or the series?

Game.


Other guessing game would be which happens more HBP or references to Harrison being from Cincinnat

[TheTimeIsNow]

In his career against the Pirates, Jumbo Diaz has pitched 15.2 innings and has appeared in 18 games. The Pirates have never scored a run against him.

[Big Klu]

Game.


Other guessing game would be which happens more HBP or references to Harrison being from Cincinnat

THom isn't there tonight, so I'll go with HBP's.

[Rantly]

In his career against the Pirates, Jumbo Diaz has pitched 15.2 innings and has appeared in 18 games. The Pirates have never scored a run against him.
Very interesting! Curious though, how did you happen on that info?

[Big Klu]

On pace for 66-96.

[CincyDave]

That's 14 losing seasons of last 17. What a pathetic franchise this has turned into.
I don't know how anybody can still have any interest in them.
The Reds are an embarrassment to this great community.

[Raisor]

That's 14 losing seasons of last 17. What a pathetic franchise this has turned into.
I don't know how anybody can still have any interest in them.
The Reds are an embarrassment to this great community.

Yet here you are

[Big Klu]

Yet here you are

I have to agree with CincyDave.

Yes, here I am. But it has gotten to the point where I am embarrassed to tell people that I am a Reds fan. I still admit to it, but I feel I have to apologize for it. And I live in Ohio, just about an hour east of Columbus.

[Sea Ray]

For whatever reason it sure appears as though the Reds have quit. This is a reason to bring up minor leaguers in Sept and let them play. This month may seal Price's fate too as this effort doesn't reflect well on him either.

[cumberlandreds]

I have to agree with CincyDave.

Yes, here I am. But it has gotten to the point where I am embarrassed to tell people that I am a Reds fan. I still admit to it, but I feel I have to apologize for it. And I live in Ohio, just about an hour east of Columbus.

Yes same with me. When asked, I say I am a fan of those sorry Reds and just sort of laugh it off.

[Raisor]

If you're embarrassed to be a Reds fan then you should probably follow another team, for your own mental health. Life is too short to follow a team you're embarrassed to tell others your a fan of.

(By the way, in no way do I think that you shouldn't feel embarrassed, if you do you do. All I'm saying is why do that to yourself?)

[Big Klu]

If you're embarrassed to be a Reds fan then you should probably follow another team, for your own mental health. Life is too short to follow a team you're embarrassed to tell others your a fan of.

I agree, and it is something I will have to weigh carefully during the offseason. (Though it is more likely I would swear off baseball completely before switching allegiances.)

[Raisor]

Here's why I'm not embarrassed: It really does look like they have an actual plan. Back in the "lost decade" it didn't. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel of the rebuild. With the young talent they have, they're going to get to be good again, and soon.

[membengal]

I hadn't really looked at big picture in awhile - is this really 14 losings seasons out of the last 17 now? That's pretty crazy.

[Big Klu]

Here's why I'm not embarrassed: It really does look like they have an actual plan. Back in the "lost decade" it didn't. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel of the rebuild. With the young talent they have, they're going to get to be good again, and soon.

Yes, it looks like their plan is, "Suck so we can get high draft picks."

And they are executing their plan very well.

But I don't see long-term success coming from it.

[Sea Ray]

If you're embarrassed to be a Reds fan then you should probably follow another team, for your own mental health. Life is too short to follow a team you're embarrassed to tell others your a fan of.

(By the way, in no way do I think that you shouldn't feel embarrassed, if you do you do. All I'm saying is why do that to yourself?)

As Wrongverb has shown, this isn't easily done.

I'll always be a Reds fan but when they don't earn my allegiance I watch them less and I don't go to games. I'm not doing this to make a statement or anything. It's just that it's not worth it.

[Raisor]

I hadn't really looked at big picture in awhile - is this really 14 losings seasons out of the last 17 now? That's pretty crazy.

On the other hand, they've had 3 winning seasons in the last 7 years, so there's that.

[Sea Ray]

I hadn't really looked at big picture in awhile - is this really 14 losings seasons out of the last 17 now? That's pretty crazy.

My guess is that others in our division have similar numbers for the past 17 yrs, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh and Chicago.

[Raisor]

Yes, it looks like their plan is, "Suck so we can get high draft picks."

And they are executing their plan very well.

But I don't see long-term success coming from it.


Well they're never going to be able to outspend the other teams, so they need to out draft them. The draft this season was very very good.

[Sea Ray]

Actually it's 13 losing seasons of the last 16 but who's counting? We did have a .500 record in Jr's first yr, 2000.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/cin/history/year_by_year_results.jsp

[membengal]

On the other hand, they've had 3 winning seasons in the last 7 years, so there's that.

Fair enough. But put against the larger picture, discontent makes some sense. And 3 of 7 is about to be 3 of 8, etc.

[Tom Servo]

The whole 'X number of losing seasons in the last X years' thing is pretty lame. Think Padres fans care about how the team was in 2004 instead of how they have performed the last six seasons? 77 wins is the high. Ditto the Rockies but their high is 74. The Marlins have had just two winning seasons in their last 11 seasons with no playoff appearances.

If the Pirates can't crack .500 this year they will have had 3 winning seasons in the last 24 years, which sounds terrible until you realize that they made the playoffs three of the last four seasons.

[Raisor]

Fair enough. But put against the larger picture, discontent makes some sense. And 3 of 7 is about to be 3 of 8, etc.

If people want to be discontent that's fine. If there's no hope for the future, why stay a fan?

[Sea Ray]

I'm a patient guy but next year I expect a .500 team. I understand a market this size needs to retool from time to time but I'm done playing for draft picks.

[membengal]

If people want to be discontent that's fine. If there's no hope for the future, why stay a fan?

I've never been comfortable lecturing fans on how to feel about this kind of sustained losing.

[Raisor]

I just don't get being upset about this season here on September 9th. Everyone knew they were going to be a train wreck. It shouldn't be a surprise. I've actually enjoyed this season as I've focused on individual players. Votto. Disco. Cozart's first half Suarez improving at third. Hamilton actually becoming a little bit of something. Finnigan.

There are things to be excited about. If you aren't that's cool, but if you can't find something to be excited about with the future of this team, you really should think about moving on to another.

[Raisor]

I've never been comfortable lecturing fans on how to feel about this kind of sustained losing.

I don't believe I'm lecturing. In fact, I've said repeatedly that if a fan feels upset about what's going on that's their choice. If you want to be mad, be mad. That's cool. But if you're going to be mad, do something about it. If someone feels the need to punch themselves in the face by watching a train wreck season, that's their fault.

[Raisor]

If watching the 2016 Reds bumble around and lose makes someone angry, take a break until 2017.

[membengal]

It happens every year around here, seemingly. It feels like lecturing. Or usually some coded or outright "you are not a true fan" stuff. That's fine, some people apparently think they are better fans because they can rationalize a LOT of losing. I can too. But I am not going to look down on those who have a lower threshold for eating this much losing.

[Raisor]

It happens every year around here, seemingly. It feels like lecturing. Or usually some coded or outright "you are not a true fan" stuff. That's fine, some people apparently think they are better fans because they can rationalize a LOT of losing. I can too. But I am not going to look down on those who have a lower threshold for eating this much losing.



Reds are a really bad team.

If people need a break from the team, I totally get that. I don't get continuing to follow the team in the short term while just being crazy mad at them.

[Big Klu]

Well they're never going to be able to outspend the other teams, so they need to out draft them. The draft this season was very very good.

But they will not be able to sustain anything with that philosophy, because they will never be able to consistently outdraft them by that much.

[membengal]

Reds are a really bad team.

If people need a break from the team, I totally get that. I don't get continuing to follow the team in the short term while just being crazy mad at them.

Reds should be glad that there is anyone still passionate enough to get crazy angry about this. Not caring is a really serious first step toward no longer being a fan. And that has repercussions at the box office down the road (as I know from being a Bengals fan - the generation they lost in the 90s they still haven't really gotten back, even with a decade of being decent).

[Raisor]

But they will not be able to sustain anything with that philosophy, because they will never be able to consistently outdraft them by that much.

and that's where windows come in. And then when that window closes, rebuild and try again.

[Raisor]

Reds should be glad that there is anyone still passionate enough to get crazy angry about this. Not caring is a really serious first step toward no longer being a fan. And that has repercussions at the box office down the road (as I know from being a Bengals fan - the generation they lost in the 90s they still haven't really gotten back, even with a decard of being decent).

Let me ask then, should the Reds abandon the rebuild and spend like crazy in the offseason to try to make a run next season? They've got plenty of prospects they can move to bring in higher priced vets. If it doesn't work, though, it'll push everything back again.

[Tom Servo]

But they will not be able to sustain anything with that philosophy, because they will never be able to consistently outdraft them by that much.
Well the 2007 draft, for instance, netted the Reds Todd Frazier, Devin Mesoraco, and Zack Cozart. You can't bank on that happening every year obviously, but the draft is a potential game-changer.

I know we've had this debate, but I just don't see the life-altering difference between 73 wins and 66 wins in a slog of a season. All things considered, I'll take the latter for the draft picks and pool money. That gives you a better chance at improvement than slightly outperforming your pythag.

[Big Klu]

If watching the 2016 Reds bumble around and lose makes someone angry, take a break until 2017.

At which point it will start all over again.

[Big Klu]

and that's where windows come in. And then when that window closes, rebuild and try again.

But the windows will get smaller and smaller, until they are like those little windows at the top of the basement.

[membengal]

Let me ask then, should the Reds abandon the rebuild and spend like crazy in the offseason to try to make a run next season? They've got plenty of prospects they can move to bring in higher priced vets. If it doesn't work, though, it'll push everything back again.

No, not from my perspective, but I am still a Bengals fan, and have learned to be okay with the long haul...

It's a messy process, and some people are not going to be okay with that. And I totally get why they would not be, and acknowledge the larger picture. It has been a ton of losing for a long time now. They are running into the danger of losing fans. That's why I was so irate over how Walt and company managed the window of opportunity they just went through. I thought they needed to be way more aggressive than they were while their window was open. Now that it is closed, I am fine with the rebuild going like this (I advocated for it, in fact). But that said, I completely get why others are angry about it, and less patient, and don't, for my part, feel the need to tell them they are wrong to feel that way. The Reds own that anger (and should still be glad for it, really).

[Big Klu]

No, not from my perspective, but I am still a Bengals fan, and have learned to be okay with the long haul...

It's a messy process, and some people are not going to be okay with that. And I totally get why they would not be, and acknowledge the larger picture. It has been a ton of losing for a long time now. They are running into the danger of losing fans. That's why I was so irate over how Walt and company managed the window of opportunity they just went through. I thought they needed to be way more aggressive than they were while their window was open. Now that it is closed, I am fine with the rebuild going like this (I advocated for it, in fact). But that said, I completely get why others are angry about it, and less patient, and don't, for my part, feel the need to tell them they are wrong to feel that way. The Reds own that anger (and should still be glad for it, really).

See, the Bengals lost me during their years in the wilderness. I am still nominally a Bengals fan, but I haven't watched a Bengals game in years. In fact, other than watching the first half of the Lions game on Thanksgiving before turkey coma sets in, I've pretty much sworn off the NFL altogether.

[Raisor]

But that said, I completely get why others are angry about it, and less patient, and don't, for my part, feel the need to tell them they are wrong to feel that way. The Reds own that anger (and should still be glad for it, really).

I'm not telling people they are wrong to feel that way. I'm giving my opinion that, if they can hang on a bit, the Reds will be good again (and I believe they will be good again pretty soon). If they CAN'T hang on a bit I'm suggesting that they find another team for their own happiness. Like Dan did (though he only lasted about a week before he came back. They'll always come back)

I was a Mariner fan for 10 years or so during the 80s since I was young and living in Seattle it seemed like a good idea. Those teams were AWFUL, but they were also a lot of fun.

This Reds team is AWFUL, but they can also be fun. Votto is tremendously entertaining. Hamilton is entertaining. Disco is entertaining. There's some really good things coming.

[CincyDave]

Yet here you are

Am grateful that there is this forum where I can express my disappointment and disgust.

I probably still have a thread of interest in the Reds to bother to remark and vent. As others have pointed out, when I (and I speak for others, I'm sure) no longer bother to comment, when I no longer attend games, when I no longer bother to follow the the team to see if they won or lost (or how much the most likely lost by), when apathy totally takes over and summer represents things (lots of things) other than the Reds, then the organization is in real trouble. Perhaps it's already there: attendance is down 8,000+ this year. Participation in this and other boards is down, too, and that represents the diehards.

As for my picking/rooting for another MLB team, that will never happen. I'll more likely just find other interests.