2016-2017 NFL Super Bowl and Offseason News

[Slyder]

I figure this thread will last through the Draft at least.

The Super Bowl is Sunday.

The Raiders Las Vegas deal is falling apart faster than the mousetrap setup. Could San Diego be an option? Will someone find a solution in Oakland? Will the Raiders ever get out of the Stone Age and get even a relatively new stadium ANYWHERE!?!?!

[WrongVerb]

Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald look set to retire (http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2017/01/30/retire-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-carson-palmer-causing-anxiety/97252944/).

Supposedly Palmer already moved his family out of Arizona and sold his house there.

[bucksfan2]

Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald look set to retire (http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2017/01/30/retire-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-carson-palmer-causing-anxiety/97252944/).

Supposedly Palmer already moved his family out of Arizona and sold his house there.

Sounds eerily familiar.

[Sea Ray]

Looks like George HW Bush will flip the coin at the Super Bowl. Let's hope it's not a depressing scene.

http://www.chron.com/sports/superbowl/article/Former-President-George-H-W-Bush-to-toss-coin-at-10900603.php

Some news I was watching a week ago mentioned that he was adamant about getting out of the hospital before the Super Bowl. The news people seemed clueless that this was because the game was going to be in Houston, his hometown.

[Sea Ray]

Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald look set to retire (http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2017/01/30/retire-cardinals-larry-fitzgerald-carson-palmer-causing-anxiety/97252944/).

Supposedly Palmer already moved his family out of Arizona and sold his house there.

Fitzgerald definitely is coming back:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000781965/article/larry-fitzgerald-returning-to-play-for-2017-season

[KronoRed]

Kurt Warner in the hall of fame?

Huh?

[RedTeamGo!]

Kurt Warner in the hall of fame?

Huh?

Why not? He was fantastic.

[RedTeamGo!]

I figure this thread will last through the Draft at least.

The Super Bowl is Sunday.

The Raiders Las Vegas deal is falling apart faster than the mousetrap setup. Could San Diego be an option? Will someone find a solution in Oakland? Will the Raiders ever get out of the Stone Age and get even a relatively new stadium ANYWHERE!?!?!

It depends on if billionaire owners stop making the middle class pay for their billion dollar operations or not. Frankly, I hope a new taxpayer funded stadium is never built again.

[RedsBaron]

Kurt Warner in the hall of fame?

Huh?
While this is an imperfect analogy, Warner's HOF qualifications somewhat remind me of those of Sandy Koufax. Neither man had overwhelming career stats but each reached a high peak. Koufax lead the '63, '65 and '66 Dodgers to three World Series and a couple of world championships while Warner quarterbacked three different teams to the Super Bowl, winning once. Koufax had a tremendous post season record while I believe that Warner threw for the most, the second most, and the third most passing yardage ever in a Super Bowl in his three Super Bowl games.

[KronoRed]

Why not? He was fantastic.

For a few years at the start and then end of his career sure, but when you look at similar players for his career and find guys like Rich Gannon and Jeff Garcia it makes one wonder, is winning a super bowl really worth that much more?

[RedTeamGo!]

I just want to point out to Dom Heffner that Fox just played a Phish song during the Atlanta Falcons intro.

[Dom Heffner]

I just want to point out to Dom Heffner that Fox just played a Phish song during the Atlanta Falcons intro.

Terrible. Along with those robots....

[Roy Tucker]

Refs trying their hardest to keep the Pats in the game.

[Tom Servo]

Refs trying their hardest to keep the Pats in the game.

Nothing they could do about that one!

[15fan]

Rise Up!!!

[Dom Heffner]

Refs trying their hardest to keep the Pats in the game.

Were those not holds?

[WrongVerb]

Were those not holds?

First was ticky tack. Second was, if you want to call that. Third was obvious.

[Stray]

Man Atlanta had it won. In FG range up 8 and then sack, holding, incomplete, punt. Brutal.

[Joseph]

Was a better game when Atlanta was up big.

[Stray]

That Edelmen catch was every bit as good and big as Tyree's.

[redhawkfish]

I bet Roger Goodell is biting his nails big time right now!

[Joseph]

What a crock.

[Stray]

Unreal. But Ryan has time.

[Slyder]

What happens when you take your foot off the accelerator. Atlanta shouldn't have stopped until they had 50 on the board.

[Stray]

I couldn't imagine being a Falcons fan right now.

[RedsBaron]

I believe that Warner threw for the most, the second most, and the third most passing yardage ever in a Super Bowl in his three Super Bowl games.

Warner now has the second, third and fourth most passing yards in a Super Bowl game. Brady has passed him in this game for the single game record.

[Stray]

This is all time great stuff from Brady right now.

[RedsBaron]

Amazing

[WVRed]

When the Patriots win, America loses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stray]

I can't even hate. That was legendary.

[Assembly Hall]

I can't believe what I just saw.

[kaldaniels]

When they dissect how the Falcons mismanaged the 4th quarter it won't be pretty.

[SteelSD]

Falcons fans showing up early for the welcome home parade:

11925

[Slyder]

What happens when you take your foot off the accelerator. Atlanta shouldn't have stopped until they had 50 on the board.

I'm guessing they found the right videos at halftime ;).

[BernieCarbo]

Nate Silver just put out a great tweet: "At least the Falcons won the popular vote."

[Slyder]

Still pisses me off Oakland never got a shot with Carr. Hopefully we can put 50 up on those a holes from Boston in Mexico City next year.

[Dom Heffner]

Man Atlanta had it won. In FG range up 8 and then sack, holding, incomplete, punt. Brutal.

Which- why even drop back? A FG and you are Super Bowl champs.

- - - Updated - - -


Still pisses me off Oakland never got a shot with Carr. Hopefully we can put 50 up on those a holes from Boston in Mexico City next year.

Could Oakland have beaten Pittsburgh? New England?

[kaldaniels]

Which- why even drop back? A FG and you are Super Bowl champS

Why snap the ball with 15-20 sec left on the play clock? A lot of questions to address.

[WrongVerb]

Which- why even drop back? A FG and you are Super Bowl champs.

My only quibble is the 3rd&33 play where they passed. You gotta run up the gut there. Try to surprise the Patriots. At the very least make them burn a time out.

Ok, one more quibble: the Amandola catch that was batted up first. The challenge seemed like desperation. Pats were moving but a stop in the middle of the field kept the clock going. The challenge stopped it.

In the end, what I saw was a defense that was worn out. They were on the field a lot. And when the time came to make a stand, they just couldn't do it. I must admit to being impressed with the comeback though. Hopefully Brady has the decency to retire on top like manning did.

[kaldaniels]

Another minor quibble with the Falcons...

They about gave NE a shot at the end of regulation when it was clear they should just go to OT. (But really they were in trouble either way...they needed to win the coin flip and score a TD...that much was pretty obvious.)

Not to mention...we were kinda close to the Superbowl being won on a fair catch kick.

[WrongVerb]

Why snap the ball with 15-20 sec left on the play clock? A lot of questions to address.

I said to someone I was watching with that if the Falcons were snapping the ball with more than five seconds on the play clock, they were doing something wrong.

[Stray]

In the end, what I saw was a defense that was worn out.

Yep. Not so unlike the Bama/Clemson game.

NE ran 93 plays to Atlanta's 46
NE held the ball for 40:31 to Atlanta's 23:27

The Falcons were gassed in the 4th and OT.

[kaldaniels]

Don't overlook the Pats going 2-2 on their 2-point conversions.

Those are usually the chokepoint for miraculous comebacks. Despite being gassed the odds favored the Falcons stopping at least one of them.

[M2]

I didn't watch the game until the holding play that took the Falcons out of field goal range in the 4th, but this has got to be an argument settler championship. Greatest QB ever? Brady, duh. Greatest team ever? Patriots, duh. And don't be surprised if this machine keeps rolling another 3-5 years. They may not be done climbing the mountain.

The booing of Roger Goodell was epic. That's a Super Bowl crowd with minimal rooting interest and it buried him. I've said this before, if he finds himself in New England in the future, he should never eat a meal he didn't prepare himself.

From an entertainment standpoint, got to figure the NFL wants the Patriots in the Super Bowl every year (even if it's uncomfortable for Roger). They've made a habit of playing epic games.

[Wonderful Monds]

ESPN's website at one point had the Falcons win probability over 99%

[Stray]

Don't overlook the Pats going 2-2 on their 2-point conversions.

Those are usually the chokepoint for miraculous comebacks. Despite being gassed the odds favored the Falcons stopping at least one of them.

Loved the play calls on both 2 pt conversion too.

Both caught Atl off guard and were decisive.

[Stray]

ESPN's website at one point had the Falcons win probability over 99%

This was the worst I saw. Win probability reporting should be officially outlawed.

11926

[paintmered]

Which- why even drop back? A FG and you are Super Bowl champs.

- - - Updated - - -



Could Oakland have beaten Pittsburgh? New England?

It was the football equivalent of Jean Van de Velde pulling driver on the 72nd at Carnoustie and a three shot lead.

And here's the thing, that play changed the Brady GOAT narrative while he sat on the sideline. The narative should have been that Atlanta dominated early, New England made it a little interesting late, but Atlanta was always in control of the game. And now Brady is the crowned GOAT because Atlanta forgot how to play with the lead.

[Slyder]

Could Oakland have beaten Pittsburgh? New England?

If Carr doesn't get hurt the Pittsburgh game is at Oakland, plus a bye week to get a number of players healthier. If NE played like they did for the first half I have no doubts that Carr and the high tempo O would have been very similar to what Ryan and Co did. We will never know because of a freak accident. I didn't watch 90% of the game much like every other Pats Super Bowl as this one vs the Rams made me physically ill knowing that could/should arguably have been Oakland otu there but the NFL gets what they want and people hyping up Tom and Bellicheat.

[hebroncougar]

I couldn't imagine being a Falcons fan right now.

Nah. This is my vision for if the Bengals ever make the super bowl again. Its played over and over in my head before. So I've imagined it.


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[cumberlandreds]

I was falling asleep in my chair when it was 28-3. My wife said why don't you go to bed you are dozing off. I said I might as well this ain't much of a game. Got up this morning and was Shocked! Shocked! to see NE had won. I'm guessing NE deflated the balls just a little half way through the 3rd QTR? :) I wonder if Brady and/or Belichick may just hang it up after this win? You really couldn't ever top that.

[WrongVerb]

Nah. This is my vision for if the Bengals ever make the super bowl again. Its played over and over in my head before. So I've imagined it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This did happen to the Bengals. Montana to Taylor is scorched into my memory forever.

[Chip R]

Not to mention...we were kinda close to the Superbowl being won on a fair catch kick.

I was thinking the same thing when that happened. I'm guessing they didn't try it because they were too far away and I believe the Falcons could have returned it.

[lollipopcurve]

I'm a Bengals fan, but I've lived in New England for over 30 years now, raised two sports-playing kids here. So, having been exposed at close range to the Brady-Belichick era, I can say I feel fortunate. They have a way of doing things that really does not get into the national media narrative. While there's all this "branding" that goes on around the Steelers and Ravens ("tough, physical, smashmouth"), there really isn't a consistent story that people tell about the Patriots (other than "they cheat"). I'm not going to belabor this, as I am not volunteering to debate the haters out there, but as something of an objective observer over the years I have nothing but respect for that team. People who think it comes easy for them or that they haven't earned it.... I guess I'd say if you really like NFL football you need to look closer at that team over the last 15 years to understand what it takes to win.

[Sea Ray]

Yep. Not so unlike the Bama/Clemson game.

NE ran 93 plays to Atlanta's 46
NE held the ball for 40:31 to Atlanta's 23:27

The Falcons were gassed in the 4th and OT.

The issue isn't Atlanta's defense. Brady can do that to anyone. It's their offense. If you're as great as the press clippings said coming in, then you can't go so many consecutive possessions in the 2nd half w/o scoring, including the failed onside kick by NE. Late in the 4th qtr, Atl didn't even need to score. They just needed 1st downs to run out the clock

[M2]

And now Brady is the crowned GOAT because Atlanta forgot how to play with the lead.

Isn't he the GOAT because for 16 years he's been on top? Sure, the Falcons opened the door a crack, but against almost anyone else it wouldn't have mattered. Bengals fans ought to know this from the 1980s. You give the GOAT a chance and the GOAT beats you.

[Dom Heffner]

If Carr doesn't get hurt the Pittsburgh game is at Oakland, plus a bye week to get a number of players healthier. If NE played like they did for the first half I have no doubts that Carr and the high tempo O would have been very similar to what Ryan and Co did. We will never know because of a freak accident. I didn't watch 90% of the game much like every other Pats Super Bowl as this one vs the Rams made me physically ill knowing that could/should arguably have been Oakland otu there but the NFL gets what they want and people hyping up Tom and Bellicheat.

I think there is no way in heck they win in New England.

I do love your enthusiasm for them, though. Truly an exciting young team.

- - - Updated - - -


Isn't he the GOAT because for 16 years he's been on top? Sure, the Falcons opened the door a crack, but against almost anyone else it wouldn't have mattered. Bengals fans ought to know this from the 1980s. You give the GOAT a chance and the GOAT beats you.

He was the GOAT before the game.

Sure, Atlanta opened the door for him, but he walked through it, and that;s the difference between him and any number of QBs.

Andy Dalton couldn't do that.

[Dom Heffner]

I'm a Bengals fan, but I've lived in New England for over 30 years now, raised two sports-playing kids here. So, having been exposed at close range to the Brady-Belichick era, I can say I feel fortunate. They have a way of doing things that really does not get into the national media narrative. While there's all this "branding" that goes on around the Steelers and Ravens ("tough, physical, smashmouth"), there really isn't a consistent story that people tell about the Patriots (other than "they cheat"). I'm not going to belabor this, as I am not volunteering to debate the haters out there, but as something of an objective observer over the years I have nothing but respect for that team. People who think it comes easy for them or that they haven't earned it.... I guess I'd say if you really like NFL football you need to look closer at that team over the last 15 years to understand what it takes to win.

If all you have to do is cheat to win, believe me, they'd all be doing it.

[bucksfan2]

I'm a Bengals fan, but I've lived in New England for over 30 years now, raised two sports-playing kids here. So, having been exposed at close range to the Brady-Belichick era, I can say I feel fortunate. They have a way of doing things that really does not get into the national media narrative. While there's all this "branding" that goes on around the Steelers and Ravens ("tough, physical, smashmouth"), there really isn't a consistent story that people tell about the Patriots (other than "they cheat"). I'm not going to belabor this, as I am not volunteering to debate the haters out there, but as something of an objective observer over the years I have nothing but respect for that team. People who think it comes easy for them or that they haven't earned it.... I guess I'd say if you really like NFL football you need to look closer at that team over the last 15 years to understand what it takes to win.

I think Brady is the best QB of my generation. I thinks its difficult to go back and compare QB's from different generations or from different times in the NFL's history. For example, if you put Elway on the Pats with Belichick, I think Elway may have been just as good if not better, but that is another discussion for another time. I also think there are QB's who are physically more gifted than Brady, see Aaron Rodgers, but there have been few QB's at the level of Brady who have completely morphed styles of play over the years.

I think what makes Belichick so good, is that he is always on the forefront of the style of play in the NFL. During Brady's early years it was a game management system with Brady not making the mistakes, then they brought in Randy Moss and it was an air show, now they have relied on more of the short passing game with undersized, yet smart WR's. Guys who can quickly get off the line, and catch a 5 yard slant pass and take it for another 5 yards. He took a slot WR and made them a dangerous and important asset in the passing game. He also has utilized the RB's in the passing game when need be and then used a ground and pound offense at other times. He has created a system with so many different options to beat you, that you have no idea what in the world to plan for. All that said, you would have to convince me that on the 2 pt conversion play that isn't PI!

Its easy to look at things in hindsight, and the Falcons were an aggressive team all year long, but when your in the position they were in late last night, you run three plays that are the least likely to result in a loss of yardage or a holding penalty. If you want to pass, its a quick three step drop and the ball is out, or better yet, you run the ball three times. What happened was Ryan made a massive mistake in taking the sack and then the LR made a massive mistake in getting called for holding, you can't make those mistakes if you want to win the Super Bowl. Its ironic, and if you run the ball three times, and you give the ball to Beast Mode three times, the Pats SB record looks completely different, it looks a lot more Buffalo Bills than GOAT.

[Chip R]

The NFL is considering a change to the intentional grounding rule. Right now a QB has to be outside the tackles and the ball has to go past the line of scrimmage to throw away the ball. The change would be that the ball would have to go past the line of scrimmage but the QB just has to be running out of the pocket. I don't like the current rule and I would really not like it if they changed it. I really hate seeing a QB just being able to dump the ball as long as it goes past the line of scrimmage. I understand why the importance of keeping the QB safe but I think there should at least be a receiver in the area.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/06/super-bowl-51-falcons-patriots-comeback-overtime-peter-king-nfl

[Wonderful Monds]

Yeah, if they change that up, they'll never call grounding again

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, if they change that up, they'll never call grounding again

It's time we get a rule change that helps the defense. This ain't it. I'm not a fan of the existing grounding rule

[Chip R]

Yeah, if they change that up, they'll never call grounding again

About the only time they would call it is if a QB drops straight back and sees a defensive player coming and just throws it away without even making an attempt to move.

[paintmered]

Isn't he the GOAT because for 16 years he's been on top? Sure, the Falcons opened the door a crack, but against almost anyone else it wouldn't have mattered. Bengals fans ought to know this from the 1980s. You give the GOAT a chance and the GOAT beats you.

There's a chorus of talking heads out there who have simplified the GOAT narrative into counting rings. I found it ironic that the one play that most contributed to Brady's fifth ring happened while he watched on the sideline.

Credit to the Pats. They execute better than anyone else out there, have for years, and with loads of different players. It's almost to the point where it doesn't matter who is wearing the jersey - they will execute.

[Mutaman]

If Carr doesn't get hurt the Pittsburgh game is at Oakland, plus a bye week to get a number of players healthier. If NE played like they did for the first half I have no doubts that Carr and the high tempo O would have been very similar to what Ryan and Co did. We will never know because of a freak accident. I didn't watch 90% of the game much like every other Pats Super Bowl as this one vs the Rams made me physically ill knowing that could/should arguably have been Oakland otu there but the NFL gets what they want and people hyping up Tom and Bellicheat.

Who's Carr?

[WrongVerb]

The NFL is considering a change to the intentional grounding rule. Right now a QB has to be outside the tackles and the ball has to go past the line of scrimmage to throw away the ball. The change would be that the ball would have to go past the line of scrimmage but the QB just has to be running out of the pocket. I don't like the current rule and I would really not like it if they changed it. I really hate seeing a QB just being able to dump the ball as long as it goes past the line of scrimmage. I understand why the importance of keeping the QB safe but I think there should at least be a receiver in the area.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/02/06/super-bowl-51-falcons-patriots-comeback-overtime-peter-king-nfl

I'm curious what problem this is trying to solve.

[Slyder]

Who's Carr?

Derek Carr. Broke his leg late in the regular season.

[Slyder]

I'm curious what problem this is trying to solve.

Whats always the biggest problem in the NFL... There's Not enough OFFENSE!

11933

[BernieCarbo]

There's a chorus of talking heads out there who have simplified the GOAT narrative into counting rings. I found it ironic that the one play that most contributed to Brady's fifth ring happened while he watched on the sideline.

Well, he just set the single game record for passing yards and completions in the Super Bowl, so it isn't like he didn't show up. There were a ton of plays in that game that were key, and the margin of error was zero in that 4th quarter. An incredible game, and it was kind of nice seeing the while thing blow up in Roger's face.

[M2]

There's a chorus of talking heads out there who have simplified the GOAT narrative into counting rings. I found it ironic that the one play that most contributed to Brady's fifth ring happened while he watched on the sideline.

Credit to the Pats. They execute better than anyone else out there, have for years, and with loads of different players. It's almost to the point where it doesn't matter who is wearing the jersey - they will execute.

It's a Super Bowl-centric league. Joe Montana also helped turn Super Bowls into the QB measuring stick. In the '70s no one much thought Terry Bradshaw was the best QB in the game. Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach and Ken Anderson were generally regarded as superior QBs, as well as Ken Stabler, Bert Jones (while he lasted) and Bob Griese.

Then Montana came around. Dan Marino, Boomer Esiason and Dave Krieg often had better numbers, but it became an article of faith that Montana was uniquely qualified to beat you. It's become more of a passing game since then, so guys like Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have insane numbers, but the only way to displace Montana from the top of QB mountain is to beat him on his defining statistic: rings.

Some day we'll see if the Patriots are the same animal without Brady. I know they went 3-1 without him this season and 11-5 in the season he missed (which is a poor season by Patriots standards), but I suspect the edge will come off their dominance. Could be like the post-Peyton Colts: not bad, but not the same.

[Simon Rhymon]

Some day we'll see if the Patriots are the same animal without Brady. I know they went 3-1 without him this season and 11-5 in the season he missed (which is a poor season by Patriots standards), but I suspect the edge will come off their dominance. Could be like the post-Peyton Colts: not bad, but not the same.

It's the combination of Belichick, Brady, McDaniels (and formerly O'Brien), and Caserio that allows them to maintain the same level year after year. We'll see which one creates the biggest drop off if they leave one at a time. If 2 leave at once, there could be trouble in Foxboro.

[Chip R]

There's a chorus of talking heads out there who have simplified the GOAT narrative into counting rings. I found it ironic that the one play that most contributed to Brady's fifth ring happened while he watched on the sideline.

It's not just the talking heads. It's the fans too. Someone will say that so and so is an all time great QB and someone else will say that he isn't because he doesn't have a ring. Peyton Manning used to get all kinds of criticism because he was so good but didn't win a Super Bowl for several years. There are plenty of guys out there who are better QBs technically that Brady. By that I mean others have better arms, quicker releases, more mobility, etc. Guys like Brees and Rodgers for example. But Brady is that guy you want out there if your goal is to win. Is he the GOAT? If you measure by Super Bowl championships he is.


Credit to the Pats. They execute better than anyone else out there, have for years, and with loads of different players. It's almost to the point where it doesn't matter who is wearing the jersey - they will execute.

Absolutely. They rose to the occasion while ATL got tired. It will be interesting to see what happens when Brady retires. All of NE's Super Bowl championships have been with him running the show. Belichick's one of the best coaches ever but he's done it all with Brady.

[Assembly Hall]

Absolutely. They rose to the occasion while ATL got tired. It will be interesting to see what happens when Brady retires. All of NE's Super Bowl championships have been with him running the show. Belichick's one of the best coaches ever but he's done it all with Brady.

It will be very interesting to see how Bill does without Tom. But part of me thinks they will step down together.

[Slyder]

It will be very interesting to see how Bill does without Tom. But part of me thinks they will step down together.

If Bill's smart he would. Look at what happened to Shannarat post Elway.

[Assembly Hall]

If Bill's smart he would. Look at what happened to Shannarat post Elway.

LOL, well nobody accused Mike of being a great coach but I get the point. Great coaches have great QB's. But who knows Bill might get lucky like Don Shula?

[RedsBaron]

Just about every great coach in NFL history won all of his championships with just one quarterback.
Every NFL championship team coached by Paul Brown had Otto Graham at QB.
Every NFL championship team coached by Vince Lombardi had Bart Starr at QB.
Every NFL championship team coached by Tom Landry had Roger Staubach at QB.
Every NFL championship team coached by Chuck Noll had Terry Bradshaw at QB.
Every NFL championship team coached by Don Shula had Bob Griese at QB.
Every NFL championship team coached by Bill Walsh had Joe Montana at QB.

There are exceptions. Bill Parcells won NFL titles with both Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler. Joe Gibbs won with Joe Theismann, Doug Williams and Mark Rypien. Weeb Ewbank won with Johnny Unitas with the Colts and with Joe Namath with the Jets.
George Halas won with a bunch of different QBs: Keith Molesworth (1933), Sid Luckman (several) and Bill Wade (1963).

P.S.: I thought of another NFL coach who won with two different QBs: George Seifert. He isn't often mentioned as a great coach, as Bill Walsh built the 49ers of the 1980s-early 90s, but Seifert did coach Super Bowl winners with the 49ers with first Joe Montana and later Steve Young as his QB.

[M2]

Every NFL championship team coached by Don Shula had Bob Griese at QB.

I know Griese's in the HOF, but he shouldn't be. He was nearly disposable on those Dolphin teams. Earl Morrall, who was fairly ancient at the time, started most of the Dolphins' games in their perfect season and he played better than Griese. Really, anybody could have been handing the ball to Csonka, Morris and Kiick. He threw a combined total of 18 passes in his two Super Bowl wins (and 23 in his one loss). The secret to Miami's success was asking Griese to do as little as possible.

[Chip R]

I know Griese's in the HOF, but he shouldn't be. He was nearly disposable on those Dolphin teams. Earl Morrall, who was fairly ancient at the time, started most of the Dolphins' games in their perfect season and he played better than Griese. Really, anybody could have been handing the ball to Csonka, Morris and Kiick. He threw a combined total of 18 passes in his two Super Bowl wins (and 23 in his one loss). The secret to Miami's success was asking Griese to do as little as possible.

You might be forgetting he played several years after Csonka, Kiik and Morris all left. He didn't get into the HOF just because he was the QB of those teams.

[RedsBaron]

Griese to me was a borderline HOF candidate. He was named to eight Pro Bowls, first team twice. He lead the NFL in passing TDs (22) and passer rating (87.8) in 1977, well after Csonka, Kiick and Morris had left.
In some ways he may have been a poor man's Bart Starr. He often had a great running game behind him, at least in the early 70s, and made the smart decision to use it rather than pass to be passing.
Yes, Earl Morrall was the Miami QB for most of the 1972 season, but Morrall had filled in before for a future HOF member. Morrall was the 1968 NFL MVP filling in for John Unitas and had a great season for the Colts, up until the Super Bowl against the Jets. He was also the winning QB in Super Bowl V two years later, coming in against the Cowboys when Unitas was injured. Mind you, Morrall was not HOF quality, but he was a good QB.
In the 1970s, the head of the QB class was generally regarded to be, in no particular order, Staubach, Bradshaw and Stabler, with Ken Anderson and Fran Tarkenton next in line. I don't think Griese was a horrible pick for the HOF but his qualifications were not overwhelming either.

[M2]

You might be forgetting he played several years after Csonka, Kiik and Morris all left. He didn't get into the HOF just because he was the QB of those teams.

Oh, I remember those years. Griese never won a playoff game after their running game dissipated. Great defense, all-time great offensive line. Didn't matter. A team that needed Bob Griese to win big games wasn't going to be winning big games.


In the 1970s, the head of the QB class was generally regarded to be, in no particular order, Staubach, Bradshaw and Stabler, with Ken Anderson and Fran Tarkenton next in line. I don't think Griese was a horrible pick for the HOF but his qualifications were not overwhelming either.

Put Tarkenton at the head of that class. AV (approximate value) is the WAR of pro football. Tarkenton still ranks 4th all-time, tied with Tom Brady. Top three are Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Jerry Rice. Tarkenton retired miles ahead of everyone else for passing yards, TDs and passes completed. He's the only QB from his era or any time before it who's still near the top of various QB career leader lists. He even ran for 3,674 yards (4th all-time for his position). Mind you, the guy I feared the most back then was Staubach, whose career started late because he was in the Navy. He had ice water in his veins. Yet when Tarkenton retired, his numbers were staggering.

[RedsBaron]

Put Tarkenton at the head of that class. AV (approximate value) is the WAR of pro football. Tarkenton still ranks 4th all-time, tied with Tom Brady. Top three are Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Jerry Rice. Tarkenton retired miles ahead of everyone else for passing yards, TDs and passes completed. He's the only QB from his era or any time before it who's still near the top of various QB career leader lists. He even ran for 3,674 yards (4th all-time for his position). Mind you, the guy I feared the most back then was Staubach, whose career started late because he was in the Navy. He had ice water in his veins. Yet when Tarkenton retired, his numbers were staggering.
Football, especially the NFL, is such a team game that evaluating quarterbacks on championships won, on games won, is unfair. I sometimes wonder if Archie Manning, had he been drafted by the Steelers or the Raiders or one of the other NFL powerhouses of the 70s, would not have surpassed the Super Bowls won by his sons.

However, when I rank QBs I always have to consider "who do I want under center if my team is down by one score with two minutes to go" or "if my team is up by one score with two minutes to go who do I not want to be the QB of the opposing team?" Those questions and their answers are why I rank Joe Montana and Tom Brady so highly.
All you posted about Fran Tarkenton's remarkable career stats is true. He also didn't have all of the supporting cast some other QBs of the 70s had. Still, when I recall those years, and when I then look up the stats, Fran's postseason performances do not impress. His career post season record was 6-5, but even in the games the Vikings won he didn't dominate or have great clutch drives. I know I would prefer to have Roger Staubach or Ken Stabler under center. Staubach went 13-7 with the Cowboys in the postseason and Stabler was 7-5 with the Raiders, and their post season performaces are legendary: the "Hail Mary" game, the "Sea of Hands" game, the "Ghost to the Post" game.
Post season stats also favor Staubach and Stabler [this summary will include Stabler's loss in 1980 with the Oilers].
Tarkenton completed 149 of 292 pass attempts in the post season, 51.03%, 1803 yards, 11 TDs, 17 interceptions, 6.17 yards per attempt.
Staubach was 223 of 410, 54.39%, 2791 yards, 24 TDs, 19 interceptions, 6.81 yards per attempt.
Stabler was 203 of 351, 57.83%, 2641 yards, 19 TDs, 13 interceptions, 7.52 yards per attempt.
This is anecdotal, but I have seen countless interviews and read numerous stories about the teammates of Staubach and Stabler: Virtually to a man, they had total faith in their QB and always thought he somehow could lift them to a win. I haven't read that as much about Tarkenton.

Postscript: Since making the above post I found an online site that gave Staubach's post season record as 11-6, not 13-7. After checking I found that my first source, Pro Football Reference.com, credited Staubach with Dallas's 38-14 loss to Cleveland in the 1969 post season, Dallas's 17-10 win over the 49ers in 1970 and Dallas's win over the 49ers in 1972. I don't think the first two game belong on Staubach's won-loss ledger. Craig Morton started at QB in all three games. In the 1969 and 1972 games the contests were well decided while Morton was under center. I do give Staubach credit for the 1972 win over the 49ers, as they were losing 28-13 before Staubach replaced Morton in the second half; Staubach rallied the Cowboys to a last minute win 30-28. I calculate Staubach's post season won loss record at 12-6.

[Assembly Hall]

All I can say about Griese is he sure as hell had stud back-ups first with Earl and then Don Strock.

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/tony-dungy-doesnt-refute-deion-sanders-claim-that-colts-stole-signals/

[bucksfan2]

I have no problem if you are stealing signals using legal methods. If you are stealing signals on the field, during the game, I think that is part of the game. When you go above and beyond traditional means, that is when it morphs into cheating.

But man Dungy, stealing signals, one of the greatest defenses of all time and Peyton Manning as your QB for a decade and you muster one Super Bowl win, sure spells HOF Coach to me!

[Assembly Hall]

But man Dungy, stealing signals, one of the greatest defenses of all time and Peyton Manning as your QB for a decade and you muster one Super Bowl win, sure spells HOF Coach to me!

So you are saying he didn't cheat very well? LOL I hear ya man, as a Colt fan I can offer no excuses except to say he pissed away alot of good teams.

- - - Updated - - -




But man Dungy, stealing signals, one of the greatest defenses of all time and Peyton Manning as your QB for a decade and you muster one Super Bowl win, sure spells HOF Coach to me!

So you are saying he didn't cheat very well? LOL I hear ya man, as a Colt fan I can offer no excuses except to say he pissed away alot of good teams.

[Kingspoint]

Tarkenton continually made stupid decisions. He was not among the best of his time because of it.

[Dom Heffner]

So you are saying he didn't cheat very well? LOL I hear ya man, as a Colt fan I can offer no excuses except to say he pissed away alot of good teams.

- - - Updated - - -



So you are saying he didn't cheat very well? LOL I hear ya man, as a Colt fan I can offer no excuses except to say he pissed away alot of good teams.

But- his players didn't curse or gamble!

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

The MMQB's Robert Klemko revealed on details that led to LB Reuben Foster's dismissal from the NFL Combine.

While participating in Combine medicals, Foster reportedly grew impatient and pulled the "do you know who I am?" card. A "heated exchange" then took place when a hospital worker told Foster he would wait like everyone else. "Foster warned the man that he'd put hands on him, and the employee said, simply, Do it," according to Klemko. Who knows how this impacts Foster's draft evaluation, but Alabama's pro day just got more interesting.

Source:*Robert Klemko on Twitter

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

Florida State RB Dalvin Cook tested as ninth-percentile SPARQ athlete at the NFL Combine.

Tennessee RB Alvin Kamara had the highest SPARQ score of any back in Indy, hitting the 79th percentile. Cook was at the opposite end of the spectrum, struggling in the three-cone drill (7.27), 20-yard shuttle (4.53), vertical (30.5"), and broad jump (9'8"). He did run a solid forty (4.49). Still, it was a concerning weekend for a back considered a potential first-round pick. According to 3 Sigma Athlete's Zach Whitman, no running back who tested as a sub-10th-percentile SPARQ athlete has been drafted in the first round in the last 17 years.

Source:*3sigmaathlete.com

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

Washington's Kevin King claimed the title of being the most athletic CB at the Senior Bowl after producing a workout that places him in the 99th percentile among prospects at the position.

That means only 1% of NFL cornerback prospects entering the NFL since 1999 were more athletic than King. At 6-foot-3, 200 pounds and 32 inch arms, King produced a 4.43 forty, 3.89 short shuttle, 6.56 3-cone and 39.5-inch vertical jump, all numbers near or at the top of his position. He checks every box from a frame and athleticism perspective. The question is the grades area scouts already had on King, and if those will stay consistent or get a bump following the Combine, especially with the involvement of position coaches.

Source:*3 Sigma Athlete



CB's in the double-digits are expected to be drafted in the 1st Rd.

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

Giants signed WR Brandon Marshall, formerly of the Jets, to a two-year, $12 million contract.

Marshall takes a bit of a pay cut in annual average to stay home in East Rutherford and join a contender. He was initially scheduled to earn $7.5 million from the Jets in 2017 before being cut last week. The Giants badly needed another proven receiver to take some heat off Odell Beckham and provide an upgrade on Victor Cruz. Marshall meets those qualifications and should be in line for a nice bounce-back season in a pass-happy offense that doesn't currently employ a strong on-paper running game or tight end. Eli Manning will have to pick up his play to make it work, however. Marshall turns 33 in two weeks but is back to fantasy WR2 status.

Source:*Newsday

[Kingspoint]

Browns claimed WR James Wright off waivers from the Bengals. Wright has 18 career catches, 13 of which came last season. He played for coach Hue Jackson in Cincinnati. He'll compete for one of the rebuilding Browns' final roster spots.

[Kingspoint]

http://walterfootball.com/OpenRant/Published/513

On Walter Football's NFL ALL-CRIMINAL TEAM, there are 5 Steelers, at least twice as much as any other team. There is one Bengal.

[WrongVerb]

http://walterfootball.com/OpenRant/Published/513

On Walter Football's NFL ALL-CRIMINAL TEAM, there are 5 Steelers, at least twice as much as any other team. There is one Bengal.

That's kinda funny considering how every mock draft he has, he never fails to mention how character is of no concern to the Bengals.

[Kingspoint]

That's kinda funny considering how every mock draft he has, he never fails to mention how character is of no concern to the Bengals.

Yes. His Mocks are terrible, but it's a great site to find information.

[WrongVerb]

Yes. His Mocks are terrible, but it's a great site to find information.

I have yet to find a site that has good mocks. But yes, WF is a great site to find inside info. I check his rumors page nearly every day.

[Puffy]

I have yet to find a site that has good mocks. But yes, WF is a great site to find inside info. I check his rumors page nearly every day.

You have to remember that Mocks are next to impossible. One domino goes awry and it has consequences. Like the Bills taking EJ Manuel a couple years ago - that let a player everyone thought was not going to be there slide and, in turn, affects all slots after.

Reading mocks is great not for person they choose but for positions, IMO

[Chip R]

The NFL is looking into ways to speed up the pace of play which include eliminating commercials after the kickoff after a touchdown. Also, there will be less frequent but longer commercial breaks.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/03/22/roger-goodell-plans-to-speed-up-pace-nfl-games-2017/99491048/

[Chip R]

Leaping over linemen to block extra points or field goals has been banned. Also, the Browns will not trade their #1 pick.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19021659/nfl-expected-pass-rule-prohibiting-leaper-block-attempts-field-goals-extra-point-attempts

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19023944/cleveland-browns-not-trade-no-1-pick-quarterback-coach-hue-jackson-says

[Chip R]

Big news out of Dallas: Tony Romo is retiring to become a broadcaster - most likely to CBS.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19073822/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-leaving-football-broadcast-career

[WrongVerb]

Big news out of Dallas: Tony Romo is retiring to become a broadcaster - most likely to CBS.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19073822/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-leaving-football-broadcast-career

AJ McCarron's trade value just went up a notch.

[Boston Red]

Big news out of Dallas: Tony Romo is retiring to become a broadcaster - most likely to CBS.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19073822/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-leaving-football-broadcast-career

Can he climb out of the booth midseason if a key QB (like, say, Dak Prescott) gets injured?

[Kingspoint]

AJ McCarron's trade value just went up a notch.

Romo was for Contenders. McCarron is for teams rebuilding. Don't think his market changed. Houston and Denver aren't destinations for him. Now if we wanted to trade Dalton, we could get two 1st Round picks for him. We are rebuilding considering how many years it's going to take to rebuild the Offensive Line. Houston (Dalton goes back to Texas) would need to, and gladly, give up this year's and next year's 1st's. Denver would have to give up this year's 1st and 3rd plus next year's 1st.

As was said before, Dalton is a Top-12, but not a Top-5 QB and could win a Super Bowl with enough talent around him and an NFL-caliber HC and GM.

[WrongVerb]

Romo was for Contenders. McCarron is for teams rebuilding. Don't think his market changed. Houston and Denver aren't destinations for him. Now if we wanted to trade Dalton, we could get two 1st Round picks for him. We are rebuilding considering how many years it's going to take to rebuild the Offensive Line. Houston (Dalton goes back to Texas) would need to, and gladly, give up this year's and next year's 1st's. Denver would have to give up this year's 1st and 3rd plus next year's 1st.

As was said before, Dalton is a Top-12, but not a Top-5 QB and could win a Super Bowl with enough talent around him and an NFL-caliber HC and GM.

I'm not a fan of moving Dalton, but for the right deal I think that's doable.

[Chip R]

So, is Romo a HOFer? I say no but he has the Dallas hype machine behind him and him being an announcer will also make people believe he is HOF worthy.

[Sea Ray]

So, is Romo a HOFer? I say no but he has the Dallas hype machine behind him and him being an announcer will also make people believe he is HOF worthy.

No way. It's not even a discussion. He's won one more playoff game than Andy Dalton. I can't find much of anything to put on a HOF resume.

[Boston Red]

I can't find much of anything to put on a HOF resume.

Jessica Simpson

[Kingspoint]

He has no business being in the Cowboy HOF.

But, if he could get healthy, he could make a killing on the Senior PGA tour.

[Chip R]

Amazon is going to pay the NFL $50M to stream 10 Thursday night games on Amazon Prime this year. They better get some better games than they had last year.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/amazon-lands-streaming-rights-nfls-thursday-night-football-991246?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Chip R]

Steelers owner Dan Rooney has died.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2017/04/13/dan-rooney-death-pittsburgh-steelers-owner-dies-nfl-united-states-ambassador/stories/202001010028

[Kingspoint]

Wonder if he kissed the Blarney Stone while he was there?

[Kingspoint]

Not having studied team needs (teams NEVER take BPA,...I don't care what they tell you), or gleened the clues that teams always give about whom they are more likely to take (the information is always out there if you're willing to put in the time to find it and can accurately evaluate it), I've tried to come up with a reasonable 2017 mock. I only got as far as the first 21 picks, though. Again, time.


1. CLE - Garrett, DE
2. SF - Adams, S
3. CHI - Lattimore, CB
4. JAX - Fournette, RB (CAR & CIN cringe)
5. TEN - Williams, WR
6. NYJ - Trubisky, QB (Only a 25% chance it's the JETS who draft him here)
7. LAC - Allen, DT
8. CAR - Thomas, EDGE
9. CIN - Robinson, OT (they didn't bring Hooker in for a visit, Foster is too risky and they haven't had good luck drafting LB's this high, and they feel comfortable with an OT this high, someone more likely to be resigned. They wanted Fournette and would have taken Williams. Taco is too raw. Fisher can play G, while Robinson opens at RT.)
10. BUF - Mahomes, QB
11. NOS - Charlton, DE
12. CLE - Hooker, S
13. ARI - Watson, QB
14. PHI - Ross, WR
15. IND - Foster, ILB
16. BAL - Davis, WR
17. WAS - Cook, RB
18. TEN - Howard, TE (If TEN can get Williams and Howard into the hands of the NFL's best redzone QB over the last two years, they will have the best Offense in the NFL.)
19. TAM - Melifonwu, CB
20. DEN - Ramcyzk, OT
21. DET - Harris, EDGE

[WrongVerb]

Police investigating sexual assault incident involving a 1st round talent (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/25/unnamed-first-round-prospect-faces-sexual-assault-allegation-in-cleveland/related/):


Via WOIO-TV, a woman has accused an unnamed NFL prospect of sexual assault. The player is expected to be selected in round one. WOIO-TV has decided not to name the prospect, pending the issuance of a police report. WOIO-TV also has emphasized that the player has not yet been charged with a crime.

Here’s where it gets weirder. The story quotes the lawyer for the unnamed player, but still doesn’t name the player. Kevin Spellacy represents the unnamed player, and Spellacy calls the allegation “ludicrous and ridiculous.”

Rumor is that it's Malik Hooker or Gareon Conley. Neither have been confirmed and it could just as easily be someone else.

[bucksfan2]

Police investigating sexual assault incident involving a 1st round talent (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/04/25/unnamed-first-round-prospect-faces-sexual-assault-allegation-in-cleveland/related/):



Rumor is that it's Malik Hooker or Gareon Conley. Neither have been confirmed and it could just as easily be someone else.

Conley. Kinds a strange story http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/25/nfl-prospect-gareon-conley-accused-of-rape-denies-allegations/

Its that age old thing, nothing good happens that late in the night.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Always hate to judge these things, but that is a strange story. From the police report they took her to the hospital and had a rape kit done, and the friends say no contact happened at all. So someone is lying and it should be pretty easy to figure out.

[Boston Red]

Someone should lock Lattimore's and Conley's Twitter accounts for a while.

[Sea Ray]

Not having studied team needs (teams NEVER take BPA,...I don't care what they tell you), or gleened the clues that teams always give about whom they are more likely to take (the information is always out there if you're willing to put in the time to find it and can accurately evaluate it), I've tried to come up with a reasonable 2017 mock. I only got as far as the first 21 picks, though. Again, time.


1. CLE - Garrett, DE
2. SF - Adams, S
3. CHI - Lattimore, CB
4. JAX - Fournette, RB (CAR & CIN cringe)
5. TEN - Williams, WR
6. NYJ - Trubisky, QB (Only a 25% chance it's the JETS who draft him here)
7. LAC - Allen, DT
8. CAR - Thomas, EDGE
9. CIN - Robinson, OT (they didn't bring Hooker in for a visit, Foster is too risky and they haven't had good luck drafting LB's this high, and they feel comfortable with an OT this high, someone more likely to be resigned. They wanted Fournette and would have taken Williams. Taco is too raw. Fisher can play G, while Robinson opens at RT.)
10. BUF - Mahomes, QB
11. NOS - Charlton, DE
12. CLE - Hooker, S
13. ARI - Watson, QB
14. PHI - Ross, WR
15. IND - Foster, ILB
16. BAL - Davis, WR
17. WAS - Cook, RB
18. TEN - Howard, TE (If TEN can get Williams and Howard into the hands of the NFL's best redzone QB over the last two years, they will have the best Offense in the NFL.)
19. TAM - Melifonwu, CB
20. DEN - Ramcyzk, OT
21. DET - Harris, EDGE

You think Cleveland will pass on Watson if he's there at 12?

[Kingspoint]

You think Cleveland will pass on Watson if he's there at 12?

Yes. Watson has way too many issues, lack of intelligence being #1, while Hooker would be a steal at #12. Doesn't matter as I think #12 will be the Titans', JETS' or Jags' pick, and I think all three would take Hooker, also. The only reason, as I mentioned before on another site why Arizona takes him, is that Arians is overruled by a meddling Owner.

If Arizona passes on Watson, I think he falls past at least #21. He'll be the dumbest pick of the draft if he's taken in the Top-15.

[Sea Ray]

Yes. Watson has way too many issues, lack of intelligence being #1, while Hooker would be a steal at #12. Doesn't matter as I think #12 will be the Titans', JETS' or Jags' pick, and I think all three would take Hooker, also. The only reason, as I mentioned before on another site why Arizona takes him, is that Arians is overruled by a meddling Owner.

If Arizona passes on Watson, I think he falls past at least #21. He'll be the dumbest pick of the draft if he's taken in the Top-15.

Do we have a Wunderlick score for him?

[bucksfan2]

Always hate to judge these things, but that is a strange story. From the police report they took her to the hospital and had a rape kit done, and the friends say no contact happened at all. So someone is lying and it should be pretty easy to figure out.

Heard a rant from Bomani Jones on this one. Basically he was saying when someone accuses anyone of "rape" there is usually substance to the claim. It gets a little tricky when you start dealing with athletes and celebrities if the endgame is different.

The story, meeting a Conley in the elevator, invited to a foursome, coming into the room only to watch, not knowing it was Conely, only recognizing the OSU tattoo, at least two other people in the room, the two ready to participate in the foursome.

[Kingspoint]

Do we have a Wunderlick score for him?

20

That equates to an IQ of about 90-100. That's not good enough to read and react against today's Defenses.

[Kingspoint]

Jed Yost is a terrible liar. I suppose that's a good thing.

[Kingspoint]

My Final Mock

1. CLE - Garrett, DE, Texas A&M
2. SF - Adams, S, LSU
3. CHI - Lattimore, CB, Ohio St
4. JAX - Fournette, RB, LSU
5. CLE - Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
6. NYJ - Hooker, S, Ohio St
7. LAC - Allen, DT, Alabama
8. CAR - Thomas, EDGE, Stanford
9. CIN - Williams, WR, Clemson
10. BUF - Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
11. NOS - Charlton, DE, Michigan
12. TEN - Howard, TE, Alabama
13. ARI - Foster, ILB, Alabama
14. PHI - Ross, WR, Washington
15. IND - Bolles, OT, Utah
16. DEN - McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
17. WAS - Reddick, OLB, Temple
18. TEN - Davis, WR, Western Michigan
19. TAM - Lamp, G, Western Kentucky
20. BAL - Harris, EDGE, Missouri
21. DET - Wormley, EDGE, Michigan
22. MIA - Melifonwu, S, Connecticut
23. NYG - Robinson, OT, Alabama
24. OAK - Awuzie, CB, Colorado
25. HOU - Ramcyzk, OT, Wisconsin
26. SEA - McDowell, DT, Michigan St
27. KCC - Webb, QB, California
28. DAL - Watt, OLB, Wisconsin
29. ATL - Barnett, DE, Tennessee
30. PIT - McKinley, OLB, UCLA
31. GBP - Mixon, RB, Oklahoma
32. NOS - Kpassignon, DE, Villanova

[Sea Ray]

My Final Mock

1. CLE - Garrett, DE, Texas A&M
2. SF - Adams, S, LSU
3. CHI - Lattimore, CB, Ohio St
4. JAX - Fournette, RB, LSU
5. CLE - Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
6. NYJ - Hooker, S, Ohio St
7. LAC - Allen, DT, Alabama
8. CAR - Thomas, EDGE, Stanford
9. CIN - Williams, WR, Clemson
10. BUF - Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech
11. NOS - Charlton, DE, Michigan
12. TEN - Howard, TE, Alabama
13. ARI - Foster, ILB, Alabama
14. PHI - Ross, WR, Washington
15. IND - Bolles, OT, Utah
16. DEN - McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
17. WAS - Reddick, OLB, Temple
18. TEN - Davis, WR, Western Michigan
19. TAM - Lamp, G, Western Kentucky
20. BAL - Harris, EDGE, Missouri
21. DET - Wormley, EDGE, Michigan
22. MIA - Melifonwu, S, Connecticut
23. NYG - Robinson, OT, Alabama
24. OAK - Awuzie, CB, Colorado
25. HOU - Ramcyzk, OT, Wisconsin
26. SEA - McDowell, DT, Michigan St
27. KCC - Webb, QB, California
28. DAL - Watt, OLB, Wisconsin
29. ATL - Barnett, DE, Tennessee
30. PIT - McKinley, OLB, UCLA
31. GBP - Mixon, RB, Oklahoma
32. NOS - Kpassignon, DE, Villanova

I'd admire your stones in going out on a limb but let this be a lesson that mocks are so worthless. It seems to me that Fornette and Garrett are the only picks you got right. You were two for 32. I'll go on to say that 90% of the draft talk on ESPN and NFL Network for the past 3 mos has been bunk as well. Who predicted that the Bears would jump up and grab Trubisky? Hours before the draft both ESPN's highly paid analysts missed the #1 pick. Crap.

[nmculbreth]

So now we have word that Gareon Conley DID have some sort of sexual contact with his alleged victim...

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/lawyer-raiders-pick-gareon-conley-now-says-accuser-consensual-sex-223954315.html?src=rss

Perhaps he's innocent and this is some sort of shakedown, but changing stories midway is never good for credibility.

[Kingspoint]

I'd admire your stones in going out on a limb but let this be a lesson that mocks are so worthless. It seems to me that Fornette and Garrett are the only picks you got right. You were two for 32. I'll go on to say that 90% of the draft talk on ESPN and NFL Network for the past 3 mos has been bunk as well. Who predicted that the Bears would jump up and grab Trubisky? Hours before the draft both ESPN's highly paid analysts missed the #1 pick. Crap.The Bears screwed everything up. In the words of another G.M., "I have no idea what the hell they're doing".

I actually did better than most mocks. I had the Seahawks pegged correctly, too, with their first pick.

On the "points" scale, I got 25 points on 21 picks in my first mock, and 28 points on my final mock.

[Sea Ray]

The Bears screwed everything up. In the words of another G.M., "I have no idea what the hell they're doing".

I actually did better than most mocks. I had the Seahawks pegged correctly, too, with their first pick.

On the "points" scale, I got 25 points on 21 picks in my first mock, and 28 points on my final mock.

You did correctly match McDowell with the Seahawks but I don't think it counts if it happened in another round. Because of things like what the Bears did, these things are awfully tough to project. I don't know what point system you're using but in the end you correctly predicted 2 out of 32 first rd picks