4/21 Reds/Cubs (Extra Innings)

[Wonderful Monds]

RIP other thread

[Tom Servo]

Operator didn't want anybody else to discuss the game without him.

[VR]

I think it was stupid to bring him out for the 9th, or to leave him in after one dude got on. Just mind-numbing. 3 innings, plenty of relievers, big game. And he pukes all over himself.

[RedTeamGo!]

I find it amusing how quickly the sky is falling crowd shows up while not posting whatsoever beforehand.

[Wonderful Monds]

Operator didn't want anybody else to discuss the game without him.

Mutiny it is then!

[Roy Tucker]

Peralta looking nasty.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey, what's this button do?

[Kc61]

Price really needs to refine his thinking on this multi-inning fireman thing.

Not saying it was clear he should have removed Lorenzen. Peralta is no sure thing.

But very disappointing result.

[Wonderful Monds]

I find it amusing how quickly the sky is falling crowd shows up while not posting whatsoever beforehand.

Lorenzen got called the JJ Hoover of 2017 right before the other thread got nixed, lol

[VR]

Peralta looking nasty.

- - - Updated - - -

Hey, what's this button do?

Glad he was saved for extras!!!

[Wonderful Monds]

Peralta nails down the 10th

[Kc61]

LOL, Lorenzen was supposedly the next Chapman, WHY ISN'T HE STARTING?

Now someone calls him JJ Hoover.

Quick turnaround for Michael.

[Tom Servo]

Price really needs to refine his thinking on this multi-inning fireman thing.

Not saying it was clear he should have removed Lorenzen. Peralta is no sure thing.

But very disappointing result.
I had taken out my contacts and didn't realize Lorenzen was over 40 pitches. Still on him primarily but jeez, asking him to face Rizzo in that situation is setting a guy up to fail.

[Fil3232]

Peralta continues to look fantastic. Wow

[RedTeamGo!]

Lorenzen got called the JJ Hoover of 2017 right before the other thread got nixed, lol

I saw that and actually laughed out loud.

[ochoa30]

Peralta looks incredible thus far. I'm sure price doesn't trust him 100% quite yet but he should. This guy has it.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Welp. I've gotta work this weekend unfortunately.

I can't afford to stay up for extra innings. Hopefully I'll wake up to a pleasant surprise.

Here's to hoping you wake up next to your avatar and a Reds win. ;) :beerme:

[VR]

Would love to see Shebby end this one.

[Wonderful Monds]

What happens if it rains out at this point, suspend the game until tomorrow afternoon I assume?

[Kc61]

I had taken out my contacts and didn't realize Lorenzen was over 40 pitches. Still on him primarily but jeez, asking him to face Rizzo in that situation is setting a guy up to fail.

I think the homer was pitch 41.

I can't be too harsh on this, I was undecided myself on what to do. Lorenzen did just get Bryant out.

Maybe Price just needs more confidence in some of these other guys, like Peralta, the lefty-lefty matchup.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL, think Schebler will swing hard here?

[Wonderful Monds]

The Cubs really have no class, sending a pitcher out to the mound with only one digit on his back like that.

[Roy Tucker]

Can we stop with the Kris Bryant love fest?

[Ironman92]

Why the new thread?

Carl Edwards will walk but Reds won't have it. Now they are back to last year's team. SMH

[VR]

Did Shebler really just strike out on a pitch eye level?

[Tom Servo]

Why the new thread?

Carl Edwards will walk but Reds won't have it. Now they are back to last year's team. SMH

Other one is locked, presumably by accident.

[Ironman92]

Did Shebler really just strike out on a pitch eye level?

Eye level on Richie Sexson

[Wonderful Monds]

Other one is locked, presumably by accident.

Go check it, Operator's still posting and doesn't realize he's talking to himself lmao

[ochoa30]

The 1-1 to schebler was his pitch. Fouled it back unfortunately. Hopefully his timing gets here soon.

[Ironman92]

Can we stop with the Kris Bryant love fest?

I don't mind it...should be in post game listening to Price's comments.

[ochoa30]

Robert Stephenson coming in. Should be interesting. Hoping for the good version.

[VR]

Peralta's inning was an example of when to bring a guy back for another inning. Not just because you have it in the script.

[Wolves198921]

We were up 3 with two outs in the ninth and lost the game! Said the reds fans

[Wonderful Monds]

Can we stop with the Kris Bryant love fest?

Kris Bryant has a very dumb face.

[KronoRed]

Go check it, Operator's still posting and doesn't realize he's talking to himself lmao

I think he's sleep posting.

[RedTeamGo!]

Go check it, Operator's still posting and doesn't realize he's talking to himself lmao

Haha that is amazing

[Mutaman]

Just got home. thinking of all the Money Ball types who were creaming themselves because Price used Raisel in a two inning non save situation last night.

[WVRedsFan]

Seems like the sprig training pitching has finally appeared.

[Roy Tucker]

Boy, I hope we see the good Robert Stephenson tonight.

[Kc61]

Peralta's inning was an example of when to bring a guy back for another inning. Not just because you have it in the script.

Agree, except they can't have Peralta sitting out. Bullpen is suddenly thin. 12 man staff, Iggy and Lorenzen heavily used last two days.

So I think they needed to limit Wandy.

[The Operator]

I hate you guys.

Every last one of you. LOL

[Wonderful Monds]

Price just pulled the plug on the Schebler experiment to put the Alcantara one in RF

[The Operator]

If it WAS me who locked the last thread it was most definitely by accident.

My mod powers let me keep posting and I kept thinking "Where the heck did everyone else go?"

[Kc61]

Price just pulled the plug on the Schebler experiment to put the Alcantara one in RF

So the Alcantara project replaces the Schebler experiment.

[Wonderful Monds]

If it WAS me who locked the last thread it was most definitely by accident.

My mod powers let me keep posting and I kept thinking "Where the heck did everyone else go?"
You're drunk on power, just admit it

[GADawg]

Alcantara is in the game....I feel better now

[ochoa30]

So the Alcantara project replaces the Schebler experiment.

Would much have preferred to see the Ervin endeavor myself.

[Roy Tucker]

If it WAS me who locked the last thread it was most definitely by accident.

My mod powers let me keep posting and I kept thinking "Where the heck did everyone else go?"

With great power comes great responsibility.

We love you man.

[_Sir_Charles_]

So the Alcantara project replaces the Schebler experiment.

12234

[The Operator]

You're drunk on power, just admit it80 proof power, sure.

[Wonderful Monds]

80 proof power, sure.

Yes yes, let it flow through you...

[GADawg]

Would much have preferred to see the Ervin endeavor myself.

did he forget his cleats or something?

[Wonderful Monds]

If Schwarber puts them ahead here I may have to be done with baseball forever for Thom's reaction alone

[ochoa30]

did he forget his cleats or something?

Rookies can only pinch hit I guess. Stephenson loses Almora there. Credit for laying off the breaking ball. May get ugly here.

[Tony Cloninger]

For a manager who needs to win games he sure does things that make no sense. Maybe he wanted to experiment to see how far he could go with Lorenzen to close. Nothing wrong with wanting him to be like Iglesias. But if he does not have it by the beginning of the 2nd inning or even before that well what the heck??

[The Operator]

LOL my wife just asked me why I'm laughing so much. For some reason this cracks me up.

"Well, I'm going to bed. Screw you guys, I'm locking this thread."

[_Sir_Charles_]

*sigh* Please for the love of god just THROW STRIKES!

[Ironman92]

Quick bat much?

[The Operator]

Looks like BobSteve's ready to get this one over with.

[Wonderful Monds]

He said the thing, drink

[ochoa30]

That ball was at his shoulders and he smashed it. Crazy.

[Roy Tucker]

Steohenson benders.

[GADawg]

i know it's too early and he's a youngster but I'm waaaayyyy over BobSteve.....

[WVRedsFan]

5 will get you 10 that this game is over. Really stinks that Price left Lorenzen to Hoover one to Rizzo.

[Tom Servo]

Baseball sucks

[Wonderful Monds]

blah

[Ironman92]

1 damn inch

Baseball sucks sometimes

[ochoa30]

Gotta make a better throw but it was tough on the run.

[RedTeamGo!]

You can usually point to one game where it all falls apart. Will this be the game this year?

God, I hate the Cubs.

[Roy Tucker]

Any kind of decent throw would have gotten him.

Walks will haunt.

[_Sir_Charles_]

i know it's too early and he's a youngster but I'm waaaayyyy over BobSteve.....

He reminds me of a LOT of guys with great stuff but unable to get it over the plate.

[GADawg]

i fear this impending loss could set the scene for another 4-15 season vs these aholes

[ochoa30]

Walks will haunt. Especially in extra innings.

[Roy Tucker]

**** a duck.

[Wonderful Monds]

I'm sure Alcantara/Billy/Peraza will put one on the board guy's, no worries yet!

[SteelSD]

He reminds me of a LOT of guys with great stuff but unable to get it over the plate.

Bruce Berenyi with more HR allowed.

[Kc61]

This is horrendous.

[ochoa30]

I gotta say a ball that shallow should not score a runner. Almora runs pretty well but the throw has to be better. Stephenson did a good job after the walk but that's baseball. Reds blew an easy win today. Cubs deserve some credit though. They were relentless. I hate em.

[The Operator]

WHY OH WHY couldn't Wandy Peralta have pitched the 9th inning. At the very least, why didn't he come in to face Rizzo. Inexcusable that Price didn't have him warming with how shaky Lorenzen looked in the 8th.

[GADawg]

I'm sure Alcantara/Billy/Peraza will put one on the board guy's, no worries yet!

law of averages says Alcantara gets on base this year

[ochoa30]

Definitely the toughest loss of the year so far.

[Mutaman]

Remember price would be a really good manager if he just had some talent.

[texasdave]

Walks haunt. Always have, always will.

[WVRedsFan]

I swore that I would lay off Price this year, but his judgment is simply unbelievable. Same old same old.

[Wonderful Monds]

Dump him. Dude sucks.

[NeilHamburger]

Nice ab Alcantara!!! So glad he's on the team.

[Tom Servo]

Alright even though it's still a small sample size it is insane how Alcantara can't put any balls in play.

[Roy Tucker]

Dunno why he is on the 25.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Alcantara strikes out and improves his batting average somehow.

[ochoa30]

Gennett not gonna bat but atleast Alcantara got to strike out on 3 pitches. That makes a lotta sense.

[Wonderful Monds]

Why bunt there? Honestly, Billy.

[WVRedsFan]

WHY OH WHY couldn't Wandy Peralta have pitched the 9th inning. At the very least, why didn't he come in to face Rizzo. Inexcusable that Price didn't have him warming with how shaky Lorenzen looked in the 8th.He has no judgment. His instincts are all wrong.

[ochoa30]

I was starting to come around on price but after this one it's gonna be tough.

[Wonderful Monds]

"You have to give it up for the fans of both teams here tonight"

That's where you're wrong, Thom.

[Tom Servo]

I was starting to come around on price but after this one it's gonna be tough.

I still don't think this even ranks up their with his biggest sins lol

[Roy Tucker]

Shut up Thom.

[GADawg]

when i see Alcantara wearing the #30 it makes me long for the days of the bad hamstring and the DL

[_Sir_Charles_]

"You have to give it up for the fans of both teams here tonight"

That's where you're wrong, Thom.

To be fair, it would be much easier to point out where he's been right.

[ochoa30]

Billy had a long at bat but you knew he never had a chance

[kaldaniels]

Which one of you was just on TV with the "Rose before H---" (it rhymes) shirt?

It was Doug, right?

[Mutaman]

I was starting to come around on price


the boys won a few games and everybody decided Bryan was Bill James.

[Roy Tucker]

Peraza is a hacker.

[Wonderful Monds]

Had to turn it off, the cheers of Cubs "fans" makes me unwell.

[Ironman92]

Thom can't wait to celebrate this Cubs win

[Tom Servo]

Ugh

[_Sir_Charles_]

Well, that was depressing.

[Tom Servo]

Well, at least I've got people back on board with Price being bad

[The Operator]

This sucks.

I'm gonna be a zombie at work tomorrow morning.

[Roy Tucker]

Boo. I hate baseball.

Until tomorrow.

[GADawg]

Peraza really looks dazed and confused....I wanna see that guy from last year that always looked like a winning player

[texasdave]

The OBPs for the first 4 hitters in the lineup: .274/.267/.315/.294. OUCH! That's half the lineup.

[ochoa30]

That sucked royally. Was pretty excited for reeds start tomorrow but now I'm just thinking we'll lose brutally somehow anyways.

[The Operator]

Boo. I hate baseball.

Until tomorrow.I plan on closing tomorrow's game thread around the 4th inning, FYI.

[VR]

Did Peraza really swing at a pitch 6 inches inside on a 2-0 count


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[WVRedsFan]

Now we'll hear Price tell us what we could tell about Lorensen in the 8th inning. Then he will bemoan his "short" bullpen and not one Cincinnati reporter will ask him why he used Iggy in a non-save situation last night because they don't want him mad at them. Disgusting.

[ochoa30]

Did Peraza really swing at a pitch 6 inches inside on a 2-0 count


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Yes

[kaldaniels]

L: Stephenson

Ship him to AAA.

[Wonderful Monds]

Well, at least I've got people back on board with Price being bad

Dumb dumb baby bird brain man forever.

[RedTeamGo!]

I have been saying it all year. Why in the hell is Alcantara on this team?

[kaldaniels]

The OBPs for the first 4 hitters in the lineup: .274/.267/.315/.294. OUCH! That's half the lineup.

I'm begging for Winker.

[VR]

Now we'll hear Price tell us what we could tell about Lorensen in the 8th inning. Then he will bemoan his "short" bullpen and not one Cincinnati reporter will ask him why he used Iggy in a non-save situation last night because they want him mad at them. Disgusting.

If Price doesn't take 100% blame for this loss, he's clueless. Team fought their butts off, and he screwed them with his bullpen usage. Wondering as well if the dude gets to 3rd in the 11th if Shebby is still in right? Didn't see on TV, but the decision to put "ICant-era" in right was curious as well.


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[Tracy Jones]

Now we'll hear Price tell us what we could tell about Lorensen in the 8th inning. Then he will bemoan his "short" bullpen and not one Cincinnati reporter will ask him why he used Iggy in a non-save situation last night because they want him mad at them. Disgusting.

Save situations don't matter. Anybody can close so I've been told.

The real culprit tonight? This multi inning reliever theory. It won't work if your fall back when your best pitcher is unavailable due to throwing multiple innings the game before is Michael Lorenzen.

[Mutaman]

Now we'll hear Price tell us what we could tell about Lorensen in the 8th inning. Then he will bemoan his "short" bullpen and not one Cincinnati reporter will ask him why he used Iggy in a non-save situation last night because they want him mad at them. Disgusting.

Old school: You use Raisel for an inning last night (at most), you use him to close out the 9th tonight. End result 1 win 1 loss, 1 win over the Cubs.

[ochoa30]

L: Stephenson

Ship him to AAA.

He's fine as a long man. It's not like he was that bad. Could have easily gotten out of it with a decent throw by Duvall.

[kaldaniels]

He's fine as a long man. It's not like he was that bad. Could have easily gotten out of it with a decent throw by Duvall.

You hope Duvall makes a good throw there.

But you can't count on your D to bail you out. If they don't it's still on you.

What's Robert's Achilles Heel? Walks. How did the winning run get on base? He owns it.

[Wonderful Monds]

Save situations don't matter. Anybody can close so I've been told.

The real culprit tonight? This multi inning reliever theory. It won't work if your fall back when your best pitcher is unavailable due to throwing multiple innings the game before is Michael Lorenzen.

Nah the multi inning fireman thing is good stuff. That's not why Price uses his relievers in lost cause games like a dummy all the time.

[Big Klu]

I don't know what to say about this one. I'm trying to weigh my words carefully so that I don't come across as too negative. But it should be apparent that the Reds just can't compete with the Cubs. The Reds might stay close for a while, but then they will blink when the chips are down. The sad fact of the matter is that the Cubs own the Reds, and that isn't going to change anytime soon, as this Cubs team is built for the long term. Say what you want about the "rebuild", but the Reds aren't anywhere close to being able to compete with quality clubs like the Cubs, and this window just slammed shut before it ever opened.

:lastyear:

[Mutaman]

Save situations don't matter. Anybody can close so I've been told.

The real culprit tonight? This multi inning reliever theory. It won't work if your fall back when your best pitcher is unavailable due to throwing multiple innings the game before is Michael Lorenzen.

Not to mention that its going to catch up with him big time come July or August because these guys are not #s on a piece of paper. Now it might work if you had a manager with the right instincts, but Bryan simply comes up short in that department.

[Tracy Jones]

If Price doesn't take 100% blame for this loss, he's clueless. Team fought their butts off, and he screwed them with his bullpen usage. Wondering as well if the dude gets to 3rd in the 11th if Shebby is still in right? Didn't see on TV, but the decision to put "ICant-era" in right was curious as well.


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Yeah. Price threw a meatball to Rizzo that went over the fence.

You want to blame Price? Blame him for buying into this multi inning reliever crap, and for believing that Lorenzen can be one of those type of pitchers. Specialization works. It's been proven over the last 35 years.

[ochoa30]

You hope Duvall makes a good throw there.

But you can't count on your D to bail you out. If they don't it's still on you.

What's Robert's Achilles Heel? Walks. How did the winning run get on base? He owns it.

I agree but he's the last man in the pen for a reason. Would rather he be starting in Triple A myself, just don't think tonight is the main reason he should go down.

[VR]

Yeah. Price threw a meatball to Rizzo that went over the fence.

You want to blame Price? Blame him for buying into this multi inning reliever crap, and for believing that Lorenzen can be one of those type of pitchers. Specialization works. It's been proven over the last 35 years.

Thanks. That was my point #captainonvious


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[ochoa30]

Yeah. Price threw a meatball to Rizzo that went over the fence.

You want to blame Price? Blame him for buying into this multi inning reliever crap, and for believing that Lorenzen can be one of those type of pitchers. Specialization works. It's been proven over the last 35 years.

I don't see multi inning relievers as a bad thing at all. I like it a lot but you still gotta know when to pull them.

[Mutaman]

I don't know what to say about this one. I'm trying to weigh my words carefully so that I don't come across as too negative. But it should be apparent that the Reds just can't compete with the Cubs. The Reds might stay close for a while, but then they will blink when the chips are down. The sad fact of the matter is that the Cubs own the Reds, and that isn't going to change anytime soon, as this Cubs team is built for the long term. Say what you want about the "rebuild", but the Reds aren't anywhere close to being able to compete with quality clubs like the clubs, and this window just slammed shut before it ever opened.

:lastyear:

You're right because the Cubs had a zillion years of losing and stocked up the draft picks. And they have a zillion dollar payroll. But this game tonight was not evidence of that fact. This loss tonight didn't have that much to do with the talent disparity.

[Tracy Jones]

Nah the multi inning fireman thing is good stuff. That's not why Price uses his relievers in lost cause games like a dummy all the time.

Last night wasn't a lost cause. It was a 1 run game. They lost tonight because Iglesias pitched 2 innings instead of 1...like every other closer has been doing for the past 3 decades. Price needs to realize that Lorenzen isn't Cody Allen or Andrew Miller and drop this crap.

[kaldaniels]

I agree but he's the last man in the pen for a reason. Would rather he be starting in Triple A myself, just don't think tonight is the main reason he should go down.

It wasn't just tonight but tonight just reemphasized the matter. I actually thought he was fairly close (but close doesn't count) to getting his curveball right this evening. Let him work on it down the road.

[WVRedsFan]

Price says he would have put Wandy in if they got the lead. What?

I'd like Price to say one time, "I screwed up." Ain't gonna happen.

[Tracy Jones]

Not to mention that its going to catch up with him big time come July or August because these guys are not #s on a piece of paper. Now it might work if you had a manager with the right instincts, but Bryan simply comes up short in that department.

No it'll work if you have 3 really good pitchers that you can count on to close out a game. Price doesn't have that. I hope after tonight he realizes it.

[cincyinco]

The first week of the season seems sooooooooooo long ago.

[Sea Ray]

The bullpen did come up one out short tonight but Votto let the team down too. He came up twice with the bases loaded and came up empty both times. He's the big gun in our lineup. He's the one who's paid to produce runs, not OBPs. He came up short tonight and it hurt. The Cubs could not and did not pitch around him tonight. It was up to Votto to produce and he didn't.

[RedTeamGo!]

The bullpen did come up one out short tonight but Votto let the team down too. He came up twice with the bases loaded and came up empty both times. He's the big gun in our lineup. He's the one who's paid to produce runs, not OBPs. He came up short tonight and it hurt. The Cubs could not and did not pitch around him tonight. It was up to Votto to produce and he didn't.

This take is so hot my eyes are burning.

The Reds were up 3 runs in the 9th with 2 outs and it's Votto's fault.

[Tracy Jones]

Thanks. That was my point #captainonvious


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Well most everyone on this board thought this multi inning gimmick was the greatest thing he's ever done. Brings extra value and stuff. No, it doesn't. Not unless you have the horses to make it work. Michael Lorenzen isn't one of those horses.

[Red Raindog]

This sucks.

I'm gonna be a zombie at work tomorrow morning.

how will anyone tell the difference? / rimshot

[Tracy Jones]

The bullpen did come up one out short tonight but Votto let the team down too. He came up twice with the bases loaded and came up empty both times. He's the big gun in our lineup. He's the one who's paid to produce runs, not OBPs. He came up short tonight and it hurt. The Cubs could not and did not pitch around him tonight. It was up to Votto to produce and he didn't.

He hit the ball very hard at least one of those times. That's about all you can do isn't it?

No. It's not Votto's fault.

[Mutaman]

No it'll work if you have 3 really good pitchers that you can count on to close out a game. Price doesn't have that. I hope after tonight he realizes it.

Depends on the pitcher. Don't think you would ever use Dibble of Meyers to pitch more than an inning. And if you have 3 really good closer's, why do you have to pitch them more than an inning? Here's another old school idea, when the other team sends up the tying run who hits lefty, the presumption is, you bring in a lefty to pitch to him.

[cincyinco]

Here's another old school idea, when the other team sends up the tying run who hits lefty, the presumption is, you bring in a lefty to pitch to him.

Biggest sin of the game. This one's on Price IMO.

[Tony Cloninger]

Well, at least I've got people back on board with Price being bad

I never left you. Going back to his usage of Hoover than Jumbo he never knows when the end is almost near and when it's a good time to remove someone who does not have it. Lorenzen did not have it in the 8th. Why is it that hard to remove him in the 9th.

[Big Klu]

I have a feeling that the freefall has begun. This club will be swept this weekend, and will likely go no better than 2-5 on the upcoming road trip. They will then go 3-6 on the ensuing homestand to complete a 7-19 stretch following their 7-2 start.

I liked it better when I didn't care. :(

[Sea Ray]

This take is so hot my eyes are burning.

The Reds were up 3 runs in the 9th with 2 outs and it's Votto's fault.

Another strawman on your part. I'm not saying the loss is any one players fault. I'm saying that Votto not knocking in any runs with two bases loaded opportunities sure hurt the cause. Do you disagree?

[Tracy Jones]

Depends on the pitcher. Don't think you would ever use Dibble of Meyers to pitch more than an inning. And if you have 3 really good closer's, why do you have to pitch them more than an inning? Here's another old school idea, when the other team sends up the tying run who hits lefty, the presumption is, you bring in a lefty to pitch to him.

Myers rarely if ever pitched multi innings. Dibble and Charlton did though.

Hey I'm with you. Iglesias pitching 2 innings last night was dumb. He should have pitched the 9th and that's it. He's one of the best relievers in baseball right now, and should be pitching in every single single 9th inning where it's close or a save situation. If Price hadn't bought into this multi inning crap he'd have pitched the 9th tonight. Specialization in the bullpen works. It's been proven for 3 decades. Don't screw around with what works unless you have the studs to do it. Did Madden pitch any reliever more than 1 inning tonight? Nope. Were the results fantastic? Hell yes they were.

[VR]

Well most everyone on this board thought this multi inning gimmick was the greatest thing he's ever done. Brings extra value and stuff. No, it doesn't. Not unless you have the horses to make it work. Michael Lorenzen isn't one of those horses.

Read my precious 10 posts from the game thread. 2 innings is a great idea, if the pitcher is on a roll. To do it just because it's in your script is insanity.


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[Tony Cloninger]

Yeah. Price threw a meatball to Rizzo that went over the fence.

You want to blame Price? Blame him for buying into this multi inning reliever crap, and for believing that Lorenzen can be one of those type of pitchers. Specialization works. It's been proven over the last 35 years.
It's not crap. Lorenzen has pitched 2 before but this time he did not have it. There are pitchers who can pitch multiple innings to avoid having pitchers being Loogys and Roogys. Everyone is right. Price could see Lorenzen did not have it going into the 9th. Then sure use the specialist for the LHH. Does not mean the multiple inning reliever cannot work. It's working fine with Iglesias. It did not work tonight because Price can't seem to adjust to what's going on.

[Tracy Jones]

Read my precious 10 posts from the game thread. 2 innings is a great idea, if the pitcher is on a roll. To do it just because it's in your script is insanity.


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No it's not. It's a horrible idea if you're banking on Micheal Lorenzen to be one of those guys, and it's the reason that the team's best pitcher by far wasn't available to close out the game tonight. It's a gimmick that needs to be scrapped immediately.

[Tracy Jones]

It's not crap. Lorenzen has pitched 2 before but this time he did not have it. There are pitchers who can pitch multiple innings to avoid having pitchers being Loogys and Roogys. Everyone is right. Price could see Lorenzen did not have it going into the 9th. Then sure use the specialist for the LHH. Does not mean the multiple inning reliever cannot work. It's working fine with Iglesias. It did not work tonight because Price can't seem to adjust to what's going on.

Lorenzen's ERA is sitting at 5.73. He's been blown up twice now. It's crap if you don't have the horses to make it work. The Reds don't.

[Tony Cloninger]

Lorenzen's ERA is sitting at 5.73. He's been blown up twice now. It's crap if you don't have the horses to make it work. The Reds don't.

Ok. So we found out it only works for Iglesias. Staring tonight. Now we know. The losing stops now and Price will no longer be dogmatic about it moving forward. Right?

[Tracy Jones]

Ok. So we found out it only works for Iglesias. Staring tonight. Now we know. The losing stops now and Price will no longer be dogmatic about it moving forward. Right?

Iglesias shouldn't be doing it either because it leaves Price without a reliable option to close out the game the next night.

Iglesias can do it, but until there's 1 or 2 more pitchers in the bullpen at or near his level, he shouldn't.

[Wonderful Monds]

Lorenzen's ERA is sitting at 5.73. He's been blown up twice now. It's crap if you don't have the horses to make it work. The Reds don't.

2 bad outings. They've been doing this since last summer and it's been working fine. Lorenzen is a former starting pitcher. He can handle it, he'll be fine.

[Tracy Jones]

2 bad outings. They've been doing this since last summer and it's been working fine. Lorenzen is a former starting pitcher. He can handle it, he'll be fine.

His arm can handle it yeah, but he's not a shutdown pitcher. It works if you have Andrew Miller and Cody Allen. It'd work now if the Reds still had Chapman. Lorenzen isn't on that level, and it's foolish to count on him to close out a game, especially against a top team.

[Wonderful Monds]

His arm can handle it yeah, but he's not a shutdown pitcher. It works if you have Andrew Miller and Cody Allen. It'd work now if the Reds still had Chapman. Lorenzen isn't on that level, and it's foolish to count on him to close out a game, especially against a top team.

Guy had a 2.88 ERA last year. He's still got a 11 K/9 and 2 BB/9 so he's still striking out guys and not walking much of anyone. I don't see what's not shutdown about him.

Let's not ask him to throw 40 more pitches after an already shaky first inning from now on and he'll be fine.

[VR]

No it's not. It's a horrible idea if you're banking on Micheal Lorenzen to be one of those guys, and it's the reason that the team's best pitcher by far wasn't available to close out the game tonight. It's a gimmick that needs to be scrapped immediately.

Glad you can come in after the game and correct everyone's posts. Read the the posts, get the context.


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[Tracy Jones]

Guy had a 2.88 ERA last year. He's still got a 11 K/9 and 2 BB/9 so he's still striking out guys and not walking much of anyone. I don't see what's not shutdown about him.

Let's not ask him to throw 40 more pitches after an already shaky first inning from now on and he'll be fine.

The 9th inning is different. Many here will deny it until they're blue in the face, but they're wrong. It's not the same as the 6th inning, or even the 8th inning. Lorenzen is a solid bullpen piece. He's not Rasiel Iglesias, and he shouldn't be the fall back closer because Iglesias is unavailable due to multi inning work. You gotta have your best available in the situation that came up tonight, and because of this multi inning gimmick, he wasn't. That can't be denied.

[Tracy Jones]

Glad you can come in after the game and correct everyone's posts. Read the the posts, get the context.


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Well after your last 2, I think I'll pass on reading anything else you have to say. Thanks.

[Tracy Jones]

And JJ Hoover had some good seasons, complete with good K/9 rates, WHIP, and solid ERA, but nobody thought he should be pitching the 9th inning either.

[VR]

Well after your last 2, I think I'll pass on reading anything else you have to say. Thanks.

Lol, that is the perfectly fantastic response from you.


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[Wonderful Monds]

And JJ Hoover had some good seasons, complete with good K/9 rates, WHIP, and solid ERA, but nobody thought he should be pitching the 9th inning either.

JJ Hoover didn't blow games because of some 9th inning voodoo, Hoover blew games because he sucks wind.

Lorenzen's a good pitcher, he'll be fine.

[Tracy Jones]

Lol, that is the perfectly fantastic response from you.


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Well what else do you want. When you act like an ass, that's what you're gonna get in return. Act differently, be an adult, and maybe we can have a conversation. Until then, forget it.

[Tracy Jones]

JJ Hoover didn't blow games because of some 9th inning voodoo, Hoover blew games because he sucks wind.

Lorenzen's a good pitcher, he'll be fine.

Hoover was a good pitcher too. Look it up. Similar to Lorenzen last year for a couple seasons actually. But again, nobody wanted him pitching the 9th inning either. Even when he wasn't a grease fire.

[VR]

Well what else do you want. When you act like an ass, that's what you're gonna get in return. Act differently, be an adult, and maybe we can have a conversation. Until then, forget it.

Lol again. Read your "I'm smarter than everyone else" it's exhausting.


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[Wonderful Monds]

Hoover was a good pitcher too. Look it up. Similar to Lorenzen last year for a couple seasons actually. But again, nobody wanted him pitching the 9th inning either. Even when he wasn't a grease fire.

Hoover was a good pitcher who always skirted around a high walk rate and got K's despite fairly average stuff.
Lorenzen has always shown a good K rate while being stingy with walks and has the stuff to match his numbers.

Hoover's problem was always walking people and then losing one over the plate to bury himself. Lorenzen doesn't have anywhere near that problem, he's got very good control. Don't overwork him, as well as looking beyond a small 10 inning sample size, and you'll find a pretty good pitcher there.

[Mutaman]

Myers rarely if ever pitched multi innings. Dibble and Charlton did though.

We were both wrong. Meyers pitched 2 innings at least 15 times in 1990. Dibble did some too.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=myersra01&t=p&year=1990

Boy, that wasn't the way I remembered it. Maybe my memory was clouded by the post season.

[Mutaman]

Meyers got a two inning save in game six of the playoffs- the Braggs' game.

[Sea Ray]

Guy had a 2.88 ERA last year. He's still got a 11 K/9 and 2 BB/9 so he's still striking out guys and not walking much of anyone. I don't see what's not shutdown about him.

Let's not ask him to throw 40 more pitches after an already shaky first inning from now on and he'll be fine.

You make a great point. This multi inning thingy with late inning relievers only works if the first inning is an easy one. You're asking for disaster if it's not. You're asking for a guy to throw 40 pitches, almost all of them "under stress" (runners on base). Let's hope Price learns a lesson here. In hindsight he most certainly should have brought in Peralta to face Rizzo.

[Raisor]

In the race for who is the JJ Hoover of 2017, I nominate Michael Lorenzen.


#HotTake

[Tracy Jones]

We were both wrong. Meyers pitched 2 innings at least 15 times in 1990. Dibble did some too.


http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=myersra01&t=p&year=1990

Boy, that wasn't the way I remembered it. Maybe my memory was clouded by the post season.

I knew Dibble and Charlton were multi inning guys. Surprised by Myers.

It kind of proves my point though. Those guys (Myers and Dibble at the very least) could be counted on to close out games. Dibble was in fact the better of the two IMO. The Reds don't have such options today. Lorenzen isn't that caliber of pitcher. Until they have another pitcher or 2 that's "closer caliber" Iglesias needs to be used as a traditional closer. If he had been, he'd have been available last night, and the result likely would've been different. Even if it wasn't, and Iglesias got blown up the same way Lorenzen did, it would've been much easier to swallow because at least we would've lost with our best.

[Tony Cloninger]

Iglesias shouldn't be doing it either because it leaves Price without a reliable option to close out the game the next night.

Iglesias can do it, but until there's 1 or 2 more pitchers in the bullpen at or near his level, he shouldn't.

If you are advocating making Iglesias just a 1 inning reliever than that would be a waste. Maybe Lorenzen cannot handle it as well or too often but it's too early to just give up on it.