8-20-17 Reds @ Braves

[Ron Madden]

Reds
CF: Billy Hamilton
SS: Jose Peraza
1B: Joey Votto
LF: Adam Duvall
3B: Eugenio Suarez
2B: Scooter Gennett
RF: Scott Schebler
C: Tucker Barnhart
SP: Luis Castillo

Braves
CF: Ender Inciarte
3B: Brandon Phillips
1B: Freddie Freeman
RF: Nick Markakis
C: Tyler Flowers
LF: Matt Adams
2B: Ozzie Albies
SS: Dansby Swanson
SP: Sean Newcomb

[Ironman92]

Hope the Reds top 5 righties at the top can get it done against the big ol lefty.

[Ironman92]

Was watching from behind on DVR but did Inciarte have 5 AB and see less than 10 pitches? I kept hitting fast forward arrow (which is 30 seconds and if pitcher not quick times out perfectly)....I swear it was like Stephenson was tossing ball in to exchange for a new one and Inciarte was wailing at it.

[ScotlandRed]

It was nice knowing ya Wink.

[Ironman92]

Scooter is 158th in AB but 31st in RBI in all of baseball. Cool

[Sea Ray]

Surprised not to see Ervin in the lineup

[Patrick Bateman]

Billy Hamilton batting lead off against lefties? These are the kind of things I would like to see price analyze more. Probably shouldn't be playing against lefties to begin with, but also to be used in a prime spot? Not asking for much to ask for more than that.


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[mth123]

I don't want to bring up the whole Fire Price thing (I've been against it because I think most of what is wrong is due to the decision to tank and I don't like the idea of sidestepping that responsibility by firing the Manager) , but the idea of hitting Hamilton/Peraza 1-2 in the order would be a good reason. Just dropping Billy to 9th and moving everyone up a spot would go a long way. I'd still have Peraza 7th and Billy 9th, but at least moving one of them out of there would be a good start.

[Big Klu]

I don't want to bring up the whole Fire Price thing (I've been against it because I think most of what is wrong is due to the decision to tank and I don't like the idea of sidestepping that responsibility by firing the Manager) , but the idea of hitting Hamilton/Peraza 1-2 in the order would be a good reason. Just dropping Billy to 9th and moving everyone up a spot would go a long way. I'd still have Peraza 7th and Billy 9th, but at least moving one of them out of there would be a good start.

I am vehemently opposed to batting the pitcher anywhere but 9th.

[Ron Madden]

Votto Walks for the 101st time this season.

[Mutaman]

Did Erwin hurt himself?

[Ron Madden]

Duvall K's to end the top of the 1st inning.

[Mutaman]

I've been against it because I think most of what is wrong is due to the decision to tank

If this is true why is he using Raisel like we're in the middle of a hot pennant race? What evidence do you have that they've decided to tank?

[Tony Cloninger]

Why do people here get confused as to why Winket is not playing regularly with Scott back? Scott was hurt during his bad month of July. The guy put up good enough numbers that his playing time is not going to just be reduced because of an injury and just because people want to see Winker play due favoring him. Winker is going to play but he's just not going to start.

Now the Ervin playing issue I agree. Hitting Peraza 2nd? Is Suarez not a better option?

[757690]

I wondered if Sean Newcomb is related to Dodger great Don Newcombe, but then I realized that is unlikely, since they spell their name differently ;)

[mth123]

I am vehemently opposed to batting the pitcher anywhere but 9th.

On the surface it doesn't make sense, but I prefer some one who is more than an automatic out hitting directly in front of the top of the order. The difference between 8th and 9th is minimal as far as potential PAs go. But if you have your best hitters hitting 1 thru 4, I'd rather not have the Automatic out that is the pitcher spot directly in front of them.

[Norse1978]

Why do people here get confused as to why Winket is not playing regularly with Scott back? Scott was hurt during his bad month of July. The guy put up good enough numbers that his playing time is not going to just be reduced because of an injury and just because people want to see Winker play due favoring him. Winker is going to play but he's just not going to start.

Now the Ervin playing issue I agree. Hitting Peraza 2nd? Is Suarez not a better option?

Expect is the better hitter.

[ScotlandRed]

Why do people here get confused as to why Winket is not playing regularly with Scott back? Scott was hurt during his bad month of July. The guy put up good enough numbers that his playing time is not going to just be reduced because of an injury and just because people want to see Winker play due favoring him. Winker is going to play but he's just not going to start.

Now the Ervin playing issue I agree. Hitting Peraza 2nd? Is Suarez not a better option?

Winker has been hitting well. I would have expected him to start either yesterday or today with Schebler coming off the DL. Do you just bench Winker now?

[Tony Cloninger]

It's been decided. Winker is better. Just sit Scott now and let his value as a trade piece drop on the off season too. That would make even better sense. Who needs really good number 4 OF when they have Keiv here.

[Ron Madden]

Geno singles to LCF

[mth123]

If this is true why is he using Raisel like we're in the middle of a hot pennant race? What evidence do you have that they've decided to tank?

Tim Adelman, Bronson Arroyo, Rookie Davis, Jackson Stephens, Asher Wojo., Lisa Bonilla have made 51 starts between them. Only a team that is tanking would leave it's rotation in such a state that they would need over 40% of the starts from scrap heap guys. They knew Bailey was a three year question mark and left it to him to be the veteran leader when everybody knew he was going to be awful even if his come back ends up being a success. His starts push the Scrap Heap starts to over 50%. If that isn't taking, then they must be so stupid that I don't know how they get out of bed in the morning.

[ScotlandRed]

It's been decided. Winker is better. Just sit Scott now and let his value as a trade piece drop on the off season too. That would make even better sense. Who needs really good number 4 OF when they have Keiv here.

Relax man. I only said he probably should have started one game over Schebler because he is hitting well and Schebler is coming off the DL.

[Tony Cloninger]

Winker has been hitting well. I would have expected him to start either yesterday or today with Schebler coming off the DL. Do you just bench Winker now?

He was brought up because Scott when on the DL. He was not brought up to just replace him right away. People act like he's freaking Reggie Taylor with no redeeming social value. Like they are playing Jason Romano or Rolando Roomes over Winker.

[Big Klu]

He was brought up because Scott when on the DL. He was not brought up to just replace him right away. People act like he's freaking Reggie Taylor with no redeeming social value. Like they are playing Jason Romano or Rolando Roomes over Winker.

19-year-old Big Klu liked Rolando Roomes in 1989, and thought the Reds had found Eric Davis Lite.

[Norse1978]

He was brought up because Scott when on the DL. He was not brought up to just replace him right away. People act like he's freaking Reggie Taylor with no redeeming social value. Like they are playing Jason Romano or Rolando Roomes over Winker.

Schebler is marginal starter who should play alot I agree but let's not act like is something special

[Tony Cloninger]

Relax man. I only said he probably should have started one game over Schebler because he is hitting well and Schebler is coming off the DL.

I'm fine man. Thanks for checking on me. I'm as calm as Walt and Jesse on a long cook day. I have advocated Winker starting once a week in LF for Duvall against a tough RH and to give him some rest so he does not wear out like last year. Same thing with Scott in RF. Scott is back from the DL. I get that. I'm sure they will rest him soon but let him get back into the swing of things for a few goes at least.

[Norse1978]

I'm fine man. Thanks for checking on me. I'm as calm as Walt and Jesse on a long cook day. I have advocated Winker starting once a week in LF for Duvall against a tough RH and to give him some rest so he does not wear out like last year. Same thing with Scott in RF. Scott is back from the DL. I get that. I'm sure they will rest him soon but let him get back into the swing of things for a few goes at least.

My real complaint is Price playing Hamilton everyday and let Scott play some center

[Tony Cloninger]

Schebler is marginal starter who should play alot I agree but let's not act like is something special

No one thought Duvall was going to be something better than he is until he started playing either. I didn't say he was that special but go ahead and assume that's what I meant. I like Winker better in the long run too but if you don't play Scott and let him build up more value now then trading him for some pitching will not work out.

[Tony Cloninger]

19-year-old Big Klu liked Rolando Roomes in 1989, and thought the Reds had found Eric Davis Lite.

I saw this look of exasperation and disgust right before Rolando was released in 1990 by Lou Pinella after he swung at a ball that not even a gopher would swing at. He walked 0 times and SO I think 19 times in less than 60 at bats that year? But he had a decent 1989 during a trying year.

[Norse1978]

No one thought Duvall was going to be something better than he is until he started playing either. I didn't say he was that special but go ahead and assume that's what I meant. I like Winker better in the long run too but if you don't play Scott and let him build up more value now then trading him for some pitching will not work out.
Like I said my biggest problem is Hamilton playing so much not really with Schebler playing

[RedTeamGo!]

It's been decided. Winker is better. Just sit Scott now and let his value as a trade piece drop on the off season too. That would make even better sense. Who needs really good number 4 OF when they have Keiv here.

This assumes Schebler has value as a trade piece.

[Tony Cloninger]

Like I said my biggest problem is Hamilton playing so much not really with Schebler playing

And I agree with that. I even gave you a Like! I think we should enjoy that this team has 4 options that can work in the OF and maybe 5 with Ervin. I do wish Scott could play CF more often though.

[Big Klu]

I saw this look of exasperation and disgust right before Rolando was released in 1990 by Lou Pinella after he swung at a ball that not even a gopher would swing at. He walked 0 times and SO I think 19 times in less than 60 at bats that year? But he had a decent 1989 during a trying year.

Lou took over in 1990 and had higher expectations, and if you didn't do it his way you were gone.

[Mutaman]

Tim Adelman, Bronson Arroyo, Rookie Davis, Jackson Stephens, Asher Wojo., Lisa Bonilla have made 51 starts between them. Only a team that is tanking would leave it's rotation in such a state that they would need over 40% of the starts from scrap heap guys. They knew Bailey was a three year question mark and left it to him to be the veteran leader when everybody knew he was going to be awful even if his come back ends up being a success. His starts push the Scrap Heap starts to over 50%. If that isn't taking, then they must be so stupid that I don't know how they get out of bed in the morning.

What were the options? Cody Reed? Trade for Sonny Gray? Sign Chapman? Any free agent pitchers out there last winter they should have signed?

Not saying you're wrong, just not very convincing. Personally, I don't think they have much of a plan, and incompetence and cheapness are much better bets than intentionally tanking.

[Tom Servo]

Castillo walked and hit a guy and then struck out the side. Wow.

[Norse1978]

And I agree with that. I even gave you a Like! I think we should enjoy that this team has 4 options that can work in the OF and maybe 5 with Ervin. I do wish Scott could play CF more often though.

I can get behind that for sure! :beerme: Plus that Castillo guy is a decent pitcher. :D

[Big Klu]

They need to give Castillo #36 when Blake Wood finally leaves.

Everyone keeps saying that Luis reminds them of Johnny Cueto, but I see Mario Soto when he pitches.

[Tony Cloninger]

Lou took over in 1990 and had higher expectations, and if you didn't do it his way you were gone.

This team with a 1990 Lou Would be fun to watch. Glenn Braggs replaced Roomes very well. I had even higher expectations for him. He was still very good.

[Tom Servo]

*Billy jam shots one just over the 2nd baseman's head*

Thom: There's a rocket into center field.

[Big Klu]

This team with a 1990 Lou Would be fun to watch. Glenn Braggs replaced Roomes very well. I had even higher expectations for him. He was still very good.

Glenn Braggs was an outstanding acquisition by Bob Quinn. He was a perfect 4th outfielder, capable of playing either LF or RF (and since Billy Hatcher could slide over from LF to CF, it meant Braggs could spell Eric Davis as well). He also had a fine season at the plate, hitting for a high average (.299 BA) with extra-base power after joining the Reds.

Plus, we also got Billy Bates in that deal! :D

[Tony Cloninger]

This assumes Schebler has value as a trade piece.

I hope so. Let him play and see if he can build it up. If he goes back to hitting like in July then play Winker more in September.

[Tom Servo]

Peraza walk!!!

[Tony Cloninger]

It's Joey fault he cannot elevate his line drives more.

[Tom Servo]

Reds leave em loaded.

[Kc61]

Peraza walk!!!

Last month or so, Peraza has a good OBP and BB/K ratio. Small sample, but he seems to have the aptitude to learn.

[Big Klu]

Sean Newcomb now 1-for-19 after taking a backwards K.

Evidently he doesn't hit like Don Newcombe.

[mth123]

What were the options? Cody Reed? Trade for Sonny Gray? Sign Chapman? Any free agent pitchers out there last winter they should have signed?

Not saying you're wrong, just not very convincing. Personally, I don't think they have much of a plan, and incompetence and cheapness are much better bets than intentionally tanking.

The thing is, they wait around for an injury or two to happen (and they always do, especially when they are relying guys who are always injured) instead of going out last winter and getting a real solid guy. If it meant having to deal a couple of the kids so be it. Having 3 or 4 prospects in the rotation at once doesn't work anyway. I'm on board with Cheap, but I don't buy that they were so incompetent that they just were caught with their pants down. If some schlub like me on a message board can see it coming while the winter meetings are going on, so can these guys. They just didn't care because they knew that winning 70 or less games was better than winning 80. That's tanking.

[Big Klu]

THom, that's why it's important to use your bench, and give regulars a break while simultaneously giving your reserves some valuable at-bats.

[mth123]

They need to give Castillo #36 when Blake Wood finally leaves.

Everyone keeps saying that Luis reminds them of Johnny Cueto, but I see Mario Soto when he pitches.

I was thinking the same thing earlier, He kind of looks like Soto.

[Tom Servo]

With two outs and infield single for BP and Freeman sneaks a hard hit grounder past 2nd. Castillo having to work yet again.

[Big Klu]

I was thinking the same thing earlier, He kind of looks like Soto.

He's much taller than Cueto. He's taller than Soto, too, but they are closer in height, and more similar in build.

[Ron Madden]

The way Castillo fools hitters with that Changeup reminds me of Soto.

[Tom Servo]

Markakis two run double. bleh. 2-0 Barves.

[Tony Cloninger]

Braves luck outperforms Reds luck so far.

[757690]

Brantley on Peraza for not communicating with Gannett. It seems Peraza is lacking in defensive fundamentals.

[Kc61]

The way Castillo fools hitters with that Changeup reminds me of Soto.

Cueto's secret weapon as a Red was his grounder rate. He became a K/GB pitcher, which is the gold standard with the Reds, especially at GABP.

Castillo has those same tendencies, so I look at him as the next Cueto.

Stephenson seems like Bailey, although Homer did develop ground ball tendencies in his best seasons. BobSteve needs to follow suit over time.

Romano is more like Leake. He throws harder than Leake, but he's got strong ground ball tendencies, and doesn't K that many guys.

Now all we need is Latos and Arroyo. Disco could be Latos, but he has to get healthy.

Finnegan, Reed, and Garrett don't fit the picture because the 2012 Reds had no lefties.

[Ron Madden]

Braves 2
Reds 0

After 3 innings. This Game Ain't Over Yet!

[Kc61]

Brantley on Peraza for not communicating with Gannett. It seems Peraza is lacking in defensive fundamentals.

Peraza needs some work at shortstop, but that runner was safe all the way.

[Tony Cloninger]

Braves 2
Reds 0

After 3 innings. This Game Ain't Over Yet!

Not if The Wolf has anything to say on this matter!

[Kc61]

Very hard to sweep on the road. This game is an uphill battle.

[Ron Madden]

Another Double for Scheb!!!

[Wolves198921]

Not if The Wolf has anything to say on this matter!
The Reds will lose today, but I knew that before it started. Just not capable of a road series sweep.

[Tony Cloninger]

Put Scott on slim fast and make him learn to play an adequate CF!

[Tony Cloninger]

The Reds will lose today, but I knew that before it started. Just not capable of a road series sweep.

I wish you all the best on your career as a motavational speaker

[Ron Madden]

The Reds will lose today, but I knew that before it started. Just not capable of a road series sweep.

I thought you would have Committed Suicide by now...LOL

[Rantly]

The Reds will lose today, but I knew that before it started. Just not capable of a road series sweep.
Thanks, now we have a shot at a win!

[Kc61]

The Reds will lose today, but I knew that before it started. Just not capable of a road series sweep.

Road sweeps are hard to come by for most teams. That's the least of the Reds' problems.

[RedTeamGo!]

I thought you would have Committed Suicide by now...LOL

Yikes

[RedTeamGo!]

The Reds will lose today, but I knew that before it started. Just not capable of a road series sweep.

It's 2-0 in the 4th inning

[Mutaman]

The thing is, they wait around for an injury or two to happen (and they always do, especially when they are relying guys who are always injured) instead of going out last winter and getting a real solid guy. If it meant having to deal a couple of the kids so be it. Having 3 or 4 prospects in the rotation at once doesn't work anyway. I'm on board with Cheap, but I don't buy that they were so incompetent that they just were caught with their pants down. If some schlub like me on a message board can see it coming while the winter meetings are going on, so can these guys. They just didn't care because they knew that winning 70 or less games was better than winning 80. That's tanking.

What " solid guy" should they have gotten? What "kids" should they have traded for this "solid guy"? Actually they did just the opposite- they traded a fairly "solid guy" like Straily and traded him for a "kid" like Castillo, a move which 99% of this board (correctly as it turns out) agreed with. They had a "solid guy" in Leake and they decided not to sign him, a move which most folks around here agreed with.

If they're serious about this "rebuilding' thingy, I don't think you trade prospects.
In any event you and I are arguing about whether they are intentionally tanking or whether they are just cheap and inept. Why use Raisel the way they have been if they are tanking? Why not give Lorenzen a month or two off. Why rush Feldman back from an injury?
I submit that they have no plan and they have no idea what they want to do.

[Ron Madden]

Yikes

He says he has a habit of hurting himself when teams he roots for lose.

[Ron Madden]

Billy Walks

[Big Klu]

Billy Walks

Was Billy reaching for his back earlier?

[Ron Madden]

Was Billy reaching for his back earlier?

He may have, I didn't see it

[Mutaman]

Guess he should have bunted

[Tony Cloninger]

Duvall can look like he's swinging at water on a boat with an oar in an AB but then come back and go the other way nicely on that base hit.

Catcher really fooled the ump on that 1st pitch strike. Brought it up nicely to get the call.

Wolfy. Don't hurt yourself. Dying is easy. Baseball is hard.

[Ron Madden]

Votto HBP, Duvall single, Geno Walk.. Bases Loaded for Scooter!

[Kc61]

What " solid guy" should they have gotten? What "kids" should they have traded for this "solid guy"? Actually they did just the opposite- they traded a fairly "solid guy" like Straily and traded him for a "kid" like Castillo, a move which 99% of this board (correctly as it turns out) agreed with. They had a "solid guy" in Leake and they decided not to sign him, a move which most folks around here agreed with.

If they're serious about this "rebuilding' thingy, I don't think you trade prospects.
In any event you and I are arguing about whether they are intentionally tanking or whether they are just cheap and inept. Why use Raisel the way they have been if they are tanking? Why not give Lorenzen a month or two off. Why rush Feldman back from an injury?
I submit that they have no plan and they have no idea what they want to do.

Funny part is the guy some posters wanted this off-season was Jake Odorizzi of TB. Would have cost a ton of prospects.

Currently, 4.74 ERA, 5.90 FIP, allowed 26 homers for TB.

Reds will need to seek out a veteran starter this off-season given all the injuries, but they need to be careful not to trade the farm because you never know exactly what you're getting.

I'd prefer they spend on a FA rather than trade the farm.

[Big Klu]

It always annoys me when announcers (not just THom) do things like that.

"Gennett hit his third grand slam of the season last night, which ties him with six others for the Reds club record."

Tell the viewers who the other six are! (I know who they are, but the vast majority of the people watching probably don't.)

Frank Robinson (1962)
Lee May (1970)
Ray Knight (1980)
Eric Davis (1987)
Chris Sabo (1993)
Devin Mesoraco (2014)
Scooter Gennett (2017)

[Ron Madden]

Storen is now pitching for the Reds

Not lookin good to start out

[BluegrassRedleg]

BP knocks off BP


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[Ron Madden]

WOW! Storen ain't gettin it done

[BluegrassRedleg]

Storen saves everyone the trouble of continuing to watch today.


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[reds44]

Storen has turned into a pud lol.

Good move by Price pulling Castillo though (not sarcasm)

[Kc61]

Mets managed to trade Bruce, Walker, Granderson in August.

Reds still have Cozart (injury) and all the relief pitchers who might have been traded this month. Not surprising when you see how they are doing.

[Tom Servo]

Storen's smoke and mirrors went up in smoke

- - - Updated - - -


Mets managed to trade Bruce, Walker, Granderson in August.

Reds still have Cozart (injury) and all the relief pitchers who might have been traded this month. Not surprising when you see how they are doing.

Mets got absolutely nothing for those guys though.

[reds44]

Storen's smoke and mirrors went up in smoke

- - - Updated - - -



Mets got absolutely nothing for those guys though.
Yep they just didn't want to pay them for the rest of the year lol

[Ironman92]

Lol....Suarez just says get out

[Big Klu]

26 players have pitched for the Reds this season, and only three have an ERA less than 4.

Raisel Iglesias -- 1.91
Wandy Peralta -- 3.05
Luis Castillo -- 3.45

[Tony Cloninger]

At least Castillo is not left out there to throw 100 plus pitches every start. I thought that was a good thing that he is not being overused? Now it's a problem because relievers not named Peralta and Iglesias are average or just bad?

[Ron Madden]

I'm gonna go play with my Grandkids. and listen to the rest of the game on radio.

I hope the Reds can make a come back.

[reds44]

At least Castillo is not left out there to throw 100 plus pitches every start. I thought that was a good thing that he is not being overused? Now it's a problem because relievers not named Peralta and Iglesias are average or just bad?

Did anybody remotely say this?

[Ironman92]

I wish Votto wouldn't have learned that o lay move from Phillips. I sure wouldn't want to have gotten in front of that ball...but I expect every big leaguer (varsity baseball and above) to get in front of that ball and knock it down. It's not as flashy if you make the play and it results in an error if you don't...the o lay play gets the best of both worlds for the player.

[Tony Cloninger]

Did anybody remotely say this?

Ohhhhh. I thought you were being sarcastic or drunk when you posted. My apologies.

[Big Klu]

Double switch for the Reds:

Kivlehan to 3B, batting 9th
Suarez moves to SS (1st appearance at SS this season)
Peraza moves to 2B
Gennett out of the game

Adleman pitching, batting 6th

[Tony Cloninger]

So this thread died faster than the Reds last playoff run.

[Big Klu]

Reds substitution:

Ervin to LF, batting 3rd
Duvall moves to 1B
Votto out of the game

[Big Klu]

So this thread died faster than the Reds last playoff run.

The Reds have a way of sucking the life out of a fanbase.

[Tony Cloninger]

They are at least usually scoring runs. Have to keep that Pythagoras up!

[Big Klu]

Adleman hits for himself, and lines a single to CF!

[Raisor]

Suarez made a play at short and didn't fall down.

[Tom Servo]

Suarez made a play at short and didn't fall down.
He's ready.

[Big Klu]

THom: "Max Fried (pronounces it so that it rhymes with 'hide') warming up in the Braves pen. That's his name. Oh, it's pronounced 'Freed'."

[Tom Servo]

RBI single Phillip Ervin! Reds won't be shut out.

[Tony Cloninger]

Free Ervin

[Big Klu]

Cincinnati 1
Cobb County 8
Final

Today's Joe Nuxhall Star of the Game is Braves 3B Brandon Phillips, who was 3-for-5 with an RBI and 2 runs scored.

[Big Klu]

On pace for 69-93.

[Mutaman]

That was the 9th GS given up by Reds this year but the internet is very vague on what the record is. Focuses on GS hit, not allowed.

[Wonderful Monds]

On pace for 69-93.

nice

[15fan]

At the game today w wife, daughter and neighbors. 7 Braves fans and me.

1. Our seats were just to the 3rd base side of home plate on the 3rd level. It was freakin hot until we moved to the shaded portion of the stadium mid-game.

2. The result of the game obviously stunk, but was mitigated by the fact that we made the video board between innings late in the game. To Run DMC's It's Tricky, no less. That's a big silver lining.