Hurricane Maria

[nmculbreth]

It's uncertain what impact this storm will make on the CONUS, but this looks like really bad news for Dominica, St. Croix and Puerto Rico.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/rapidly-intensifying-maria-hitting-leeward-islands-jose-headed-north

[WrongVerb]

Cat 1 to Cat 5 in just over 24 hours. This is an insane development. Current winds 160 mph, pressure 925mb. Aiming for the mid-Atlantic US coast (still a week away). Second cat-5 hurricane making landfall in the Caribbean in just over 2 weeks. Never happened before.

[marcshoe]

We're all gonna die. This year.

Good news is that I had already decided to postpone an east coast trip to work on my dissertation in some peaceful place until the end of October. Maybe the hurricanes will be over by then.

The bad news is everything else.

[RFS62]

One of my best friends and co-workers is trapped on St. Johns. Had a reservation to get out yesterday, but the airports shut down. We've tried everything on earth to get him on a boat, ferry, small island hopper airplane, to get him ANYWHERE else, to no avail.

I was supposed to be there with him through next week, but my wife just had an operation and I delayed to take care of her. All these decisions came before Marie became a monster.

This is going to be a long night.

[nmculbreth]

Pressure is down to 916 and dropping and on a path for a direct hit on Puerto Rico... awful, awful news.

[Sea Ray]

Amazing how quickly that went from cat 1 to 5.

[WrongVerb]

From the latest forecast discussion:



KEY MESSAGES:

1. Maria's core is expected to move near or over St. Croix and
Puerto Rico tonight and Wednesday, bringing life-threatening wind,
storm surge, and rainfall impacts to portions of those islands.
Everyone in these areas should follow advice from local officials to
avoid life-threatening flooding from storm surge and rainfall.

2. Wind speeds atop and on the windward sides of hills and mountains
and on high-rise buildings could be much stronger than the
near-surface winds indicated in this advisory.

3. A hurricane warning also in effect for the remainder of the
Virgin Islands and the northern coast of the Dominican Republic,
where Maria is expected to bring dangerous wind, storm surge, and
heavy rainfall.

4. A hurricane watch is in effect for the southeastern Bahamas and
the Turks and Caicos, where Maria could bring hurricane conditions
on Thursday.


FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 19/2100Z 16.8N 64.0W 145 KT 165 MPH
12H 20/0600Z 17.5N 65.2W 145 KT 165 MPH
24H 20/1800Z 18.4N 66.7W 130 KT 150 MPH...OVER PUERTO RICO
36H 21/0600Z 19.3N 68.1W 125 KT 145 MPH...OVER WATER
48H 21/1800Z 20.2N 69.4W 120 KT 140 MPH
72H 22/1800Z 22.5N 71.0W 115 KT 130 MPH
96H 23/1800Z 25.5N 72.0W 110 KT 125 MPH
120H 24/1800Z 28.5N 72.5W 95 KT 110 MPH

[WrongVerb]

From the newest discussion:



KEY MESSAGES:

1. Maria's core will pass near or over St. Croix within the next
few hours and will approach the southeastern coast of Puerto Rico
early Wednesday, bringing life-threatening wind, storm surge, and
rainfall impacts to portions of those islands. Everyone in these
areas should follow advice from local officials to avoid
life-threatening flooding from storm surge and rainfall.

2. Wind speeds atop and on the windward sides of hills and mountains
and on high-rise buildings could be much stronger than the
near-surface winds indicated in this advisory.

3. A Hurricane Warning is also in effect for the remainder of the
Virgin Islands and the northern coast of the Dominican Republic,
where Maria is expected to bring dangerous wind, storm surge, and
heavy rainfall.

4. A Hurricane Watch is in effect for the southeastern Bahamas and
the Turks and Caicos, where Maria could bring hurricane conditions
on Thursday.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INIT 20/0300Z 17.3N 64.7W 150 KT 175 MPH
12H 20/1200Z 18.0N 65.8W 145 KT 165 MPH
24H 21/0000Z 18.9N 67.3W 125 KT 145 MPH
36H 21/1200Z 19.9N 68.6W 120 KT 140 MPH
48H 22/0000Z 20.9N 69.7W 115 KT 130 MPH
72H 23/0000Z 23.3N 71.4W 110 KT 125 MPH
96H 24/0000Z 26.2N 72.2W 105 KT 120 MPH
120H 25/0000Z 29.5N 72.5W 90 KT 105 MPH

[klw]

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GOES16_RedVis-20170920_1017_1117anim.gif

[RFS62]

We lost contact with my co-worker and friend, and today we found out he made it from St. Johns to St. Thomas. Out of the frying pan, into the fire. I got a text from his satellite phone today saying "I'm ok". That was it. His new nickname is Lt. Dan.

Or maybe Forrest.

I'm thinking he's probably hooked up to a Jack Daniels IV about now.

And who knows how long it's going to take or even how he's going to get out of there.

[dougdirt]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/hurricane-maria-makes-landfall-puerto-rico-category-4-storm-n802911


"The San Juan that we knew yesterday is no longer there," Yulín said, adding: "We're looking at four to six months without electricity" in Puerto Rico, home to nearly 3.5 million people.

This should be unacceptable.

[WrongVerb]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/hurricane-maria-makes-landfall-puerto-rico-category-4-storm-n802911



This should be unacceptable.

The only reliable way to avoid that is to bury all the power lines. That's probably doable as long as the area isn't too low-lying. But it's expensive as hell, and PR already has money issue. Even if you bury the lines, you've got substations that sit above ground, not to mention power plants that sustain damage. It's a reminder that electric power is a convenience, not an absolute.

[dougdirt]

The only reliable way to avoid that is to bury all the power lines. That's probably doable as long as the area isn't too low-lying. But it's expensive as hell, and PR already has money issue. Even if you bury the lines, you've got substations that sit above ground, not to mention power plants that sustain damage. It's a reminder that electric power is a convenience, not an absolute.

I'm not really talking about future prevention here. I'm just talking about getting them back on the grid.

[WrongVerb]

I'm not really talking about future prevention here. I'm just talking about getting them back on the grid.

Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't a matter of just flipping a switch and their power comes back on. There are some significant engineering issues with power generation that need to be handled before power can be restored safely. There could be power stations that are damaged and need parts to be fabricated (likely in the US). Substations are probably in even worse shape. And electrical wire needs to be re-strung along much of the island, I'm sure. And we aren't talking a small island here. It's probably the same area as what's within the I70-I75-I71 triangle in southwest Ohio, but with huge mountains in the middle.

Just assessing damage and ordering supplies is going to take time. Then fabricating and shipping them back to the island takes time. Then installing them -- including coordinating personnel -- takes time.

[dougdirt]

Yeah. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't a matter of just flipping a switch and their power comes back on. There are some significant engineering issues with power generation that need to be handled before power can be restored safely. There could be power stations that are damaged and need parts to be fabricated (likely in the US). Substations are probably in even worse shape. And electrical wire needs to be re-strung along much of the island, I'm sure. And we aren't talking a small island here. It's probably the same area as what's within the I70-I75-I71 triangle in southwest Ohio, but with huge mountains in the middle.

Just assessing damage and ordering supplies is going to take time. Then fabricating and shipping them back to the island takes time. Then installing them -- including coordinating personnel -- takes time.

I understand that it takes time to do that. But 3-6 months is not acceptable. The mainland here needs to find a way to send qualified people, and supplies to Puerto Rico and take care of this. Those are Americans down there.

[BernieCarbo]

If it were somewhere else, it would be restored much sooner. But PR is bankrupt, maintenance to the grid was ignored for years, and any skilled tradesmen and engineers left long ago. Similar to how US utility companies move en masse to areas that are hit by natural disasters, I can see us moving a few thousand utility trucks and workers there and putting them back together, because they aren't up to the task.


edit: Doug read my mind.

[RichRed]

I have college friends down there, a married couple with two sons who were transferred there because the husband is in the Coast Guard. They're probably in one of the better situations because they're in a base house made of concrete to withstand this sort of thing (if that's possible). One of their friends reported on FB that all Coast Guard personnel are safe and sound but still no direct word from my friends.

Waiting to hear...

[RFS62]

I understand that it takes time to do that. But 3-6 months is not acceptable. The mainland here needs to find a way to send qualified people, and supplies to Puerto Rico and take care of this. Those are Americans down there.

Dude, I know you mean well, but that's pretty much ridiculous.

[RedTeamGo!]

Dude, I know you mean well, but that's pretty much ridiculous.

What is ridiculous precisely?

[RFS62]

Their entire infrastructure is devastated. Roads, bridges, the entire power grid. Six months to get it all back online is optimistic.

They don't have any place for the disaster victims or relief workers as it is. It's a difficult place to operate on a normal day. Nearly every building on the island was affected to some extent.

And, we're a long way from the end of hurricane season, with favorable conditions for more storms.

There's a reason they call it a disaster.

[RFS62]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/us/hurricane-maria-puerto-rico.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

[dougdirt]

Their entire infrastructure is devastated. Roads, bridges, the entire power grid. Six months to get it all back online is optimistic.

They don't have any place for the disaster victims or relief workers as it is. It's a difficult place to operate on a normal day. Nearly every building on the island was affected to some extent.

And, we're a long way from the end of hurricane season, with favorable conditions for more storms.

There's a reason they call it a disaster.

You find a way. This is America, not some third world country. How many people are going to die down there compared to how it would be if that were South Florida? If that were South Florida I bet you it wouldn't take 6 months to get people power back.

[klw]

I understand that it takes time to do that. But 3-6 months is not acceptable. The mainland here needs to find a way to send qualified people, and supplies to Puerto Rico and take care of this. Those are Americans down there.

After the 98 Ice Storm, Quebec had to rebuild a large area of the power grid. Took weeks, in the middle of winter for all power to be restored.
http://www.iclr.org/icestorm98engineering.html

More than 120,000 kilometers of transmission and distribution lines – enough to circle the globe three times – were pulled down by the weight of the ice and by falling trees and branches. Over 900 pylons and 128 transmission lines were affected by the storm. Damage was so extensive that in such places as the Triangle of Darkness (see Figure 5) it wasn’t a case of repairing the damage, but rebuilding much of the power grid from the ground up. (Utility officials estimated February 2, 1998 that as much as 40 per cent of the power transmission infrastructure in the area bordered by Saint-Hyacinthe, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and Granby was damaged or destroyed.) What took more than 50 years to create was destroyed in less than one week.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/quebec-ice-storm-why-it-s-impossible-to-storm-proof-the-power-grid-1.2890371

Buried power lines may be protected from ice and pesky tree branches, but they are more vulnerable to flooding. Like overhead lines, they're not immune to more general equipment failure — and when a problem does occur, it can be harder to identify and repair.

Not only that, but the U.S. Energy Information Administration estimates that underground power lines can cost up five to 10 times more than overhead distribution lines.


But yes, they need to send in an army of workers and probably the army as well.

[BernieCarbo]

I agree with Doug- it shouldn't (and it won't) take 3 to 6 months. If they get the equipment and people there, at a minimum they will get enough lines up to provide basic necessities like water and sanitation in a few weeks. The key is not to treat the island like a red headed stepchild, and treat it just like we would the mainland.

[RFS62]

You find a way. This is America, not some third world country. How many people are going to die down there compared to how it would be if that were South Florida? If that were South Florida I bet you it wouldn't take 6 months to get people power back.

Sounds pretty easy.

You think there isn't an army getting ready to go in there right now?

On top of the army of relief workers still in Texas and Florida.

"you find a way" shows you have a good heart, Doug. The things you're talking about aren't as easy as throwing money at it.

Electricity isn't first on the list. Shelter, water, waste disposal, food. That's first.

Regarding Florida, it will be months before all of the homeowners even see an insurance adjuster. And the level of devastation in Puerto Rico is exponentially greater than Florida and Texas. On top of the difficulty operating there, especially once you get out of the urban centers.

[Roy Tucker]

I work in the insurance IT biz. We have a hold on any system or application changes or updates to our systems so Claims has access 24x7.

It will make life tough on us IT wonks after we can finally get moving again. It's hard enough to keep up in the best of times working nights and weekends on top of a 40 hr week job. But then I see what people are going through and I shut up.

[BernieCarbo]

Electricity isn't first on the list. Shelter, water, waste disposal, food. That's first.


You can't do any of that without electricity. It's got to be job one. I'm guessing the National Guard will step in soon to provide security and coordinate resources. Things will move quickly.

[RFS62]

You can't do any of that without electricity. It's got to be job one. I'm guessing the National Guard will step in soon to provide security and coordinate resources. Things will move quickly.

Of course the National Guard will be there. They always are.

I don't think you guys understand how bad it is there. "Things will move quickly".

Getting the entire grid up in 6 months after what happened there is beyond "quickly".

And what are you restoring electricity to? Flooded out and destroyed homes and shacks?

It's not just running new lines. The ENTIRE system is down. The guys you're imagining sending as an army down there tomorrow are still doing all they can in Florida.

Reality distortion feels good in times like these. I know your hearts are in the right place, and I applaud that.

But you're making statements based on, I don't know, your desire to make sure we don't treat them like "red headed stepchildren".

We won't. Every single discipline in the disaster relief community will throw everything we've got there, in the US Virgin Islands, continuing in Florida and Texas, and wherever the next one hits.

Again, I'm glad you support the effort. But you're expressing unrealistic expectations.

[BernieCarbo]

Of course the National Guard will be there. They always are.

I don't think you guys understand how bad it is there. "Things will move quickly".

Getting the entire grid up in 6 months after what happened there is beyond "quickly".

And what are you restoring electricity to? Flooded out and destroyed homes and shacks?

It's not just running new lines. The ENTIRE system is down. The guys you're imagining sending as an army down there tomorrow are still doing all they can in Florida.

Reality distortion feels good in times like these. I know your hearts are in the right place, and I applaud that.

But you're making statements based on, I don't know, your desire to make sure we don't treat them like "red headed stepchildren".

We won't. Every single discipline in the disaster relief community will throw everything we've got there, in the US Virgin Islands, continuing in Florida and Texas, and wherever the next one hits.

Again, I'm glad you support the effort. But you're expressing unrealistic expectations.

I understand fully the scope of the project. The individual homes will be the last to have electricity restored, but lines will still have to be pulled throughout the country to power water pumps, sewage treatment plants, refrigerated warehouses, food processing plants, etc, etc.

Again, if this happened to Massachusetts, it wouldn't take six months. And it won't take six months there either.

[RFS62]

The six months prediction came from the government of Puerto Rico, not me. And comparing the topography, infrastructure, assets on the ground, and everything else about life in Massachusetts to Puerto Rico is solid evidence of how little you know about the world of disaster relief. Again, I applaud you guys for your intentions. I just got back from looking at claims in Florida today. Monday I'm headed back to Houston. Once temporary housing is available, I'll be headed to either Puerto Rico or St. Johns. I'll make sure to check in and find out what you guys have decided should be going on.
Again, I applaud your good intentions.

[nmculbreth]

The problem is that Puerto Rico's electrical grid was in bad shape to begin with, who knows how much of it is going to be salvageable... Replacing an entire electrical grid of an area as large as Puerto Rico is a massive undertaking under the best of circumstances, it becomes even more challenging when you consider some of the geographic challenges Puerto Rico poses.

[BernieCarbo]

The six months prediction came from the government of Puerto Rico, not me. And comparing the topography, infrastructure, assets on the ground, and everything else about life in Massachusetts to Puerto Rico is solid evidence of how little you know about the world of disaster relief. Again, I applaud you guys for your intentions. I just got back from looking at claims in Florida today. Monday I'm headed back to Houston. Once temporary housing is available, I'll be headed to either Puerto Rico or St. Johns. I'll make sure to check in and find out what you guys have decided should be going on.
Again, I applaud your good intentions.

When I was speaking of Massachusetts, I was speaking to how serious people would take it compared to an island in the Caribbean that half the country doesn't even realize is part of the US. And I am well aware of the logistical obstacles and understand power engineering and the grid very well (I worked six years on high voltage distribution systems). The reality of the situation is that their government and economy was barely capable of functioning while the sun was shining, let alone after a hurricane, and if they don't have basic utilities made available to the bulk of the population- electricity, water, sanitation- it will be the worst disaster on American soil ever. Right now, two days after the storm, they have to deal with a 100,000 tons of rotting food, no fresh water, no sanitation facilities, and little skilled labor to fix it. People in Houston have option, but the people in PR do not. Is it a difficult task? Yes, of course. But that's what we are good at, and you will be surprised how quickly things turn around once they gat started.

[BernieCarbo]

The problem is that Puerto Rico's electrical grid was in bad shape to begin with, who knows how much of it is going to be salvageable... Replacing an entire electrical grid of an area as large as Puerto Rico is a massive undertaking under the best of circumstances, it becomes even more challenging when you consider some of the geographic challenges Puerto Rico poses.

It's about 50% bigger than Delaware, and most of the population is along the coast. If they got San Juan and two other larger cities working, most of the population would be functional again.

[GAC]

When it comes to natural disasters, no matter what the scale, and all the efforts needed to be implemented for immediate relief, effect recovery/rebuild, manpower, equipment, time-lines, etc, etc .... I will listen to one who has had decades of experience and know-how in that specific area ... and that would be rfs ;)

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but in my lifetime this seems to be the worst hurricane season ever as far as impact and devastation, and in such a very short time-frame (over the last month?). Even with all the immediate response(s) and efforts, the volunteers, etc ... it's simply overwhelmed and over-taxed available resources. It's spread thin.

Depending on the level of a hurricane (or even a tornado), which may only last anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple days, the devastation it invokes QUICKLY takes a lot longer as far as rebuild/recovery.

But it does encourage my heart when I see the response being made by the people of this country, and from all over, when it comes to the devastation in Texas, Florida, and the Caribbean. You press on and do what you can as fast as you can.

[Dom Heffner]

Sounds pretty easy.

You think there isn't an army getting ready to go in there right now?

On top of the army of relief workers still in Texas and Florida.

"you find a way" shows you have a good heart, Doug. The things you're talking about aren't as easy as throwing money at it.

Electricity isn't first on the list. Shelter, water, waste disposal, food. That's first.

Regarding Florida, it will be months before all of the homeowners even see an insurance adjuster. And the level of devastation in Puerto Rico is exponentially greater than Florida and Texas. On top of the difficulty operating there, especially once you get out of the urban centers.

These companies are dying for people to work claims...

With a 2% hurricane deductible, most people are falling below that, and it's wasting time, but that is to be expected.

[WrongVerb]

Royal Caribbean cancels cruise, sends ship on rescue mission to Puerto Rico (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/352896-royal-caribbean-cancels-cruise-to-send-ship-on-hurricane-relief?amp):


Royal Caribbean has canceled an upcoming cruise in order to send a ship to Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands on a mission to help hurricane victims.

The Adventure of the Seas, which can carry 3,114 passengers, will forgo its scheduled Saturday voyage and travel to San Juan, St. Croix and St. Thomas on Friday to pick up evacuees and bring supplies.

A spokesman for Royal Caribbean told the Miami Herald that the cruise line expects to pick up more than 3,000 people, taking them back to Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

[RFS62]

Trump has turned FEMA successes in Texas and Florida relief efforts into abject failure in Puerto Rico.

His seeming indifference to the misery of the past week has made it his own, just like "Great job, Brownie" did it for Bush at Katrina.

There is no excuse for not having the military in there getting the airport open again for cargo traffic. No excuse for not having heavy equipment in there opening the roads for relief trucks.

[Boston Red]

Royal Caribbean cancels cruise, sends ship on rescue mission to Puerto Rico (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/352896-royal-caribbean-cancels-cruise-to-send-ship-on-hurricane-relief?amp):

Good for them....but I'd be a bit pissed if I was booked on the cruise!

[medford]

Good for them....but I'd be a bit pissed if I was booked on the cruise!

why?

1) I'll assume the people booked are getting all their money back (at least for the cruise portion of it)
2) I'll assume the places that the boat was scheduled to go to are pretty much wrecked at this point, so your excursions are likely going to be cancelled if you were on the cruise.

I get being disappointing by the whole thing, but I don't think I'd be pissed off, if anything, I may be relieved.

[Boston Red]

If the places they were going were wrecked anyway, I agree. But if you'd spent a couple grand (or more) on airfare/hotels/etc. getting to Ft. Lauderdale for the cruise and didn't find out until the last day or two your cruise was getting canceled? Yeah, not that pleased.

Granted, I like south Florida, so I'm sure I'd manage to make a nice week of it in Miami/FTL.

[Redsfaithful]

I don't understand how this isn't getting a media response like Katrina. I really don't. Is it really just that it's not a state? Is it because they would rather talk about the NFL?

http://latinousa.org/2017/09/28/marias-death-toll-puerto-rico-underreported/

María’s Death Toll in Puerto Rico Is Being Underreported


SAN JUAN, PUERTO RICO — Leovigildo Cotté died in the midst of desperation over not getting the oxygen needed to keep him alive in the only shelter that exists in the town of Lajas, which has been without electricity since the passing of Hurricane María a week ago. Not even his connections with the government saved him.

“The generator never arrived,” said the current mayor of Lajas, Marcos Turín Irizarry, who explained that he looked for oxygen for Cotté, father of the former mayor of that same town, “turning every stone,” but could not find it.

Cotté is one of the unaccounted victims of the Category 5 hurricane that devastated all of Puerto Rico last week, with its sustained winds and gusts of up to 200 miles per hour. On Wednesday, the government of Puerto Rico still held that the official number of deaths as a result of the catastrophe was 16, but the Center for Investigative Journalism (CPI, for its initials in Spanish) has confirmed that there are dozens and could be hundreds in the final count.

The fatalities related to circumstances created by the hurricane are still mounting with each passing day, and official numbers are not counting patients who are not receiving dialysis, oxygen and other essential services, such as Pedro Fontánez, 79, who is bedridden at the Pavía Hospital in Santurce and who the institution is attempting to release since Saturday, while he lacks electricity at home to support the oxygen and gastric tube-feeding he needs to continue living. His daughter, Nilka Fontánez, showed up desperate at the government’s Emergency Operations Center asking for help, but was told they were not accepting patients there.

“There’s no information,” she said, frustrated.

The dead are at the hospital morgues, which are at capacity and in remote places where the government has yet to go, and in many cases, their families are unaware of the deaths. The Demographic Registry certifies the deaths so bodies can be removed by funeral homes, many of which are also not operating for a lack of resources and fuel. They barely began certifying some of the dead on Monday, as Health Secretary Rafael Rodríguez-Mercado confirmed in an interview.

https://twitter.com/AynRandPaulRyan/status/913426909282713600


1- I received a DM from a vetted source who wishes to remain anonymous.
S/he was on a conference call with FEMA on Monday, September 25.
2- This is 5 days after Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico. Others on the call: [Lists numerous agencies you'd expect from DoD and Homeland on down]
3- "Then, after every department reported their activities and projections,
it was time for the White House to issue their report."
4- WH answer?
No report, no activity.⁰⁰Nothing planned for Puerto Rico.
"We were all stunned", this source said.
5 - Meaning until Monday the 25th, (nearly a WEEK after Hurricane Maria made landfall), the WH had no plans to make any moves in PR…
6- ...while DoD, FEMA, all government agencies and non-government agencies were ready to go or had already started activities on the ground.

Anyone who wants to complain this is a political post can shove it.

[BernieCarbo]

If the places they were going were wrecked anyway, I agree. But if you'd spent a couple grand (or more) on airfare/hotels/etc. getting to Ft. Lauderdale for the cruise and didn't find out until the last day or two your cruise was getting canceled? Yeah, not that pleased.

Granted, I like south Florida, so I'm sure I'd manage to make a nice week of it in Miami/FTL.

I had forgotten all about this, but in 1982 my uncle retired from the Air Force after 32 years, and he had saved for years so he and his wife could return home on the RMS Queen Elizabeth. But what else happened in 1982? The Falklands War, at which time Great Britain put it back in the naval fleet as a troop carrier. They ended up flying home instead. It happens.

[WrongVerb]

I wonder if it is hard to get reporters in and information out of PR. That certain information isn't coming to my ears right now is the least of the sins surrounding the response to Maria.

[dougdirt]

Posting Twitter feeds from a gal who says this:



I don't know. How could that possibly be political?

If MODs give us permission to discuss the gov't responsibilities of dealing with this disaster here, fine. If not, then feel free to tell them to shove it.

That's like saying my post about baseball is political because I made a political post on my twitter feed once.

[Sea Ray]

That's like saying my post about baseball is political because I made a political post on my twitter feed once.

It's a little more than that. If we really want to discuss this gal's twitter posts, watch how fast this thread gets moved

[dougdirt]

It's a little more than that. If we really want to discuss this gal's twitter posts, watch how fast this thread gets moved

No one wants to discuss her posts. We are discussing one post. You went out of your way to try and bring the others into it.

[RedTeamGo!]

Posting Twitter feeds from a gal who says this:



I don't know. How could that possibly be political?



Facts aren't political. They are facts.

[Sea Ray]

No one wants to discuss her posts. We are discussing one post. You went out of your way to try and bring the others into it.

If that's the case then it was a poor choice to bring her into the conversation at all

[dougdirt]

If that's the case then it was a poor choice to bring her into the conversation at all

You're probably correct. Because we all know that you can't have a point that is valid if you've made invalid points in the past about something.

I'm going to go drink some bleach.

[CTA513]

Facts aren't political. They are facts.

Opinions aren't facts.

[RedTeamGo!]

Opinions aren't facts.

I’m aware, I was saying that tongue in cheek, although I think that “opinion” is obviously true.

[Redsfaithful]

Been weeks now:


Only 11.7% have power
Only 56% have water
7000 still in shelters
25/66 hospitals have power

http://www.status.pr/

What happened with the response here was deliberate. On purpose. I don't know why - perhaps it was to do with them not being a state, perhaps it has to do with the debt situation, I don't know - but it was deliberate.

We militarily occupied Haiti after their earthquake in 2011, and, just in case someone needs a refresher, that isn't American territory. Military engineers sent in large numbers to reset infrastructure. Hasn't happened here. It's an embarrassment, and it's horrible, and the media has underplayed it in favor of stories about the NFL and the national anthem.

[WrongVerb]

Been weeks now:



http://www.status.pr/

What happened with the response here was deliberate. On purpose. I don't know why - perhaps it was to do with them not being a state, perhaps it has to do with the debt situation, I don't know - but it was deliberate.

We militarily occupied Haiti after their earthquake in 2011, and, just in case someone needs a refresher, that isn't American territory. Military engineers sent in large numbers to reset infrastructure. Hasn't happened here. It's an embarrassment, and it's horrible, and the media has underplayed it in favor of stories about the NFL and the national anthem.

I gather there is a large swath of people in this country who believe you should struggle for everything you get; someone helping you, even when you are at your bottom and most helpless, only serves to make you weak, and you'd be better off dying anyway. This attitude is exploited by others so they can justify poor responses to any number of disasters, including this one.

[Redsfaithful]

Eventually we are going to get a real death toll out of Puerto Rico.

It's going to:

1. be called "fake news" by many, possibly even by our president

and

2. will immediately see people asking others to "not politicize it" because it's disrespectful to the people who died in a tragedy

I expect 2 will probably even happen on this board.

[Boston Red]

I see that Google is about to send balloons to essentially work as temporary cellphone towers to restore service in Puerto Rico. Interesting solution. I guess something similar was done in Peru earlier this year and it worked pretty well.

[BernieCarbo]

My gf's best friend is from Puerto Rico, and her 79 year old father still lives on the northeast corner. He still has no running water or electricity, and hardly anything is open. But, the airport is open and FedEx and USPs are delivering, so she is able to get the basic necessities to him. She begged him to come to the states, but he owns his own business and said he would be robbed blind and lose everything the moment he left, so he is staying put. People are burying their dead in their yards for the time being because the morgues aren't working anyway. He does have access to fuel, so she is shipping him a small generator to run some lights, a tv and fridge at least. It's a pretty desperate situation.

[Tom Servo]

Jennifer Bendery‏
@jbendery 1h1 hour ago

Just talked to a nurse in San Juan. Water being rationed. Ppl with no power, little food, waiting hours in lines in sweltering heat. Unreal.

[Redsfaithful]

NFL players are kneeling though, and we have Democrats to bash over Weinstein.

[dougdirt]

Lest we forget the ratings losers ESPN.

[Redsfaithful]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16553748/puerto-rico-nurses-fema

Nurses returning from Puerto Rico accuse the federal government of leaving people to die


The stinging criticism came from members of the nonprofit National Nurses United, speaking on Capitol Hill with Democratic members of Congress after a two-week humanitarian mission to Puerto Rico. About 50 volunteer nurses visited two dozen towns in urban and rural areas, and described the desperation of Puerto Ricans — even five weeks after Hurricane Maria hit the island — as worse than anything they had witnessed on other humanitarian missions, including the aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans and the earthquake in Haiti.

[dougdirt]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/26/16553748/puerto-rico-nurses-fema

Nurses returning from Puerto Rico accuse the federal government of leaving people to die

It's incredible to still see the things coming out of Puerto Rico as far as what's not being done there.

Also from the article:


Right now, about 75 percent of the island doesn't have electricity and 25 percent doesn't have running water. (Vox's reporting suggests that far fewer people have access to drinking water than statistics show.)

[nmculbreth]

After this article was published, the secretary of the Department of Public Safety, Héctor M. Pesquera, said in a statement that 911 cremations of "natural deaths" were authorized between Sept. 20 to Oct. 18.


John Mutter, a professor of earth sciences and public affairs at Columbia University who studied how the death count was handled after Hurricane Katrina, said Puerto Rico’s procedures seem to be “trying to keep the numbers low,” which he called “unconscionable.” Other experts called it a failure of bureaucracy.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/nidhiprakash/puerto-rico-cremations?utm_term=.nbl3DX2D0X#.wnBoz7DzV7

[Redsfaithful]

Report I just read from someone whose grandfather just died in Puerto Rico:


I don’t know if this is the right place, but as an update: I was just on the phone with my grandfather’s widow this morning and she says conditions there are far worse than are being reported. Apparently the morgues are so full that she says the soldiers have set up tents outside the morgue to try to keep the bodies cold while they wait for them to be processed. They are being told by local government that there will not be water for months. Anyone who wants water needs to go to city buildings downtown and haul it themselves, including the elderly. Banks are letting people take out money now and there is food but because of the lack of water, hygiene conditions are terrible and people are getting very sick. The hospitals are still trying to help people but they don’t have enough supplies or people for the conditions and are only able to deal with some emergencies. This is in western PR at least.

[Sea Ray]

60 Minutes did a segment on this tonight. Enormous problems there. The head of the Army Corp was interviewed and he mentioned how huge these problems are. He said that 60K poles need to be shipped to the island and that the entire island's electrical grid needs to be redone. He said electric will likely not be restored in many areas until March. Some may not get it back until Summer. The segment did touch on how PR and its utility co has been bankrupt for some time now. They didn't mention much about Whitefish Energy except to say that its $300 contract is being investigated. I came out of this with the idea that this isn't so much a political issue as it is an issue of damage and logistics of this being an island so far off the mainland.

[Boston Red]

The 60 Minutes piece was definitely an interesting view on the logistical challenges of dealing with this situation on Puerto Rico.

And if you don't like the PR story, the story on Alma, the 12 year-old classical musician was worth all 60 minutes by itself!

[dougdirt]

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. Nearly half of Puerto Rico still has no power.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/933469217273376773

[Sea Ray]

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving. Nearly half of Puerto Rico still has no power.

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/933469217273376773

They won't have it for Christmas either. It's been well established that it'll take many months to restore power to many areas of that island.