2017 Bengals Season Part II (Fire Marvin!)

[WVRed]

Time for a new one.

[Kingspoint]

Time for a new one.

Head Coach?

[WVRed]

Head Coach?

That too.

[Bob Sheed]

Uh-huh...

Meet your new head coach....

Paul Guenther!

[CTA513]

I think its safe to say that Marvin wasn't behind the drafting of John Ross




Marvin Lewis says John Ross let the team down

“For Andy, against that coverage to throw him that football, he should understand how the quarterback feels about him.
That he expects him to be where he needs to be. He let his teammates down. He let me down. He let Andy down,” Lewis said of Ross.

FULL: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/11/15/marvin-lewis-says-john-ross-let-the-team-down/

[Sea Ray]

I think its safe to say that Marvin wasn't behind the drafting of John Ross

In a way I think this is a good sign. Marvin is doing something that's out of character for him...throwing his players under the bus. He did the same thing with Jeremy Hill. I think this means he knows this is the end for him so let the comments fly. Let's hope he's right

[RiverRat13]

I think its safe to say that Marvin wasn't behind the drafting of John Ross

I'm sure Marvin was very upset that the Bengals didn't go corner yet again in the first round. Of course, had they done so they most likely would have ended up with Marshon Lattimore, who has been a stud for New Orleans.

[Redsfaithful]

I think Joe Goodberry on Twitter talked about video of Marvin from 15 years ago and how he was fired up on the sideline, joking around with players, etc.

Now he's got the deadest eyes I've ever seen.

Mike Brown man. He is a life ruiner.

[bucksfan2]

I think Joe Goodberry on Twitter talked about video of Marvin from 15 years ago and how he was fired up on the sideline, joking around with players, etc.

Now he's got the deadest eyes I've ever seen.

Mike Brown man. He is a life ruiner.

I think its life in the NFL. Mike Brown has nothing to do with this.

Seriously, look at the hours these coaches keep, the 365 nature of the sport. Marvin has it easy in a passive media town, but being a coach in the NFL is high stress job.

There few coaches in the game who have been a HC for years and still look young and like they have a pep in their step. That doesn't happen in the NFL.

Marv deserved to be fired last season, this season he became a dead man walking after the Pitt loss.

[Sea Ray]

Where MB is to blame is for not firing him sooner. He let Marvin hang around long enough to get stale.

[bucksfan2]

Where MB is to blame is for not firing him sooner. He let Marvin hang around long enough to get stale.

Mike Brown is not to blame for the toll coaching in the NFL takes on coaches.

[Sea Ray]

Mike Brown is not to blame for the toll coaching in the NFL takes on coaches.

Of course not. He better than anyone, should be aware of that toll. With that in mind, he should know when it's time to fire his coach. He's waited too long here. He should have fired Marvin after the Pitt playoff game

[bucksfan2]

Of course not. He better than anyone, should be aware of that toll. With that in mind, he should know when it's time to fire his coach. He's waited too long here. He should have fired Marvin after the Pitt playoff game

What I wanted Mike Brown do to was come out and say what many of us fans thought after that game. I wanted to hear some backing from either Lewis or Brown about the Shazier hit, about Porter being allowed on the field provoking Jones. I wanted to hear from Brown or Lewis about he Burfict suspension and how it was the harshest penalty for anything done on the field.

But I now realize watching this Jerry Jones situation, the NFL doesn't like when owners speak up and threaten their golden goose. They all would rather pocket the money than stir the pot.

[Assembly Hall]

Lewis did a lot for the Bengals. But sometimes coaches just wear out their welcome And apparently he has reading from this board. I always think what would have been if Palmer didn't go down in that play-off game? To me, he had the makings of a franchise QB.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lewis did a lot for the Bengals. But sometimes coaches just wear out their welcome And apparently he has reading from this board. I always think what would have been if Palmer didn't go down in that play-off game? To me, he had the makings of a franchise QB.

To me there were 2 years in Marvin's history where the Bengals really had the team to make a deep run and both years just went bad. One was the Palmer playoff injury. Then the other year was the year when Dalton went down with the injury late in the year McCarron took over and then they had the playoff meltdown. Unfortunately that playoff meltdown team is probably the best Bengals team we will see around here for a long time. Marvin did a lot of good for a long time here but his time is past it is time to move in a new direction. The scary thing is the wrong move here could put this team into another lost decade but something has to change.

[Redsfaithful]

I think its life in the NFL. Mike Brown has nothing to do with this.

Seriously, look at the hours these coaches keep, the 365 nature of the sport.

There's some of this too, sure. But he's been Bengalized. The franchise defeats everyone. Since Paul Brown died it is undefeated when it comes to tearing down anyone who tries to make it better.

I'll add that the last playoff loss put the final knife in him. Brown was close enough to the situation that he should have put him out of his misery.

Mike Brown is an incredibly, incredibly, incredibly greedy human being, which makes it ironic that probably his main flaw as an owner is that he has too much loyalty to lost causes.

[Kingspoint]

Mike Brown is not to blame for the toll coaching in the NFL takes on coaches.

It's been this way forever.

In the early '70's, some media giant did a feature story on this subject. They featured George Allen and two others.It was sad. It looked like the most difficult job in the world, if you wanted to be successful at it. It's why great College Coaches consistently fail miserably at it. It's why success can't be sustained for very long. It drains the life out of them.

[dubc47834]

What I wanted Mike Brown do to was come out and say what many of us fans thought after that game. I wanted to hear some backing from either Lewis or Brown about the Shazier hit, about Porter being allowed on the field provoking Jones. I wanted to hear from Brown or Lewis about he Burfict suspension and how it was the harshest penalty for anything done on the field.

But I now realize watching this Jerry Jones situation, the NFL doesn't like when owners speak up and threaten their golden goose. They all would rather pocket the money than stir the pot.

Holy Cow...are people still crying about this!!!

[GAC]

Mike Brown is not to blame for the toll coaching in the NFL takes on coaches.


Lewis did a lot for the Bengals. But sometimes coaches just wear out their welcome And apparently he has reading from this board.

Yep. It happens to the best of them. Burn out, nothing left in the tank, getting stale, whatever .... there's also a nice list of ex-head coaches who still, IMO, have something to offer to the game as a head coach, yet walked away for varying reasons.

Why put up with the emotional and psychological pressure, all the BS? ... when you can get a nice cozy job as an analyst on CBS or Fox? :D

Looking at where this organization was at, Marvin Lewis did a lot for this franchise IMO. But he doesn't have anything left in the tank, he's lost that fire, that competitive edge IMO. Apathy. Complacency.

So yeah - it's time for some "new blood" as far as a HC goes. The only problem is this franchise could also use some "new blood" as far as ownership. You dealt with one "problem" but, IMO, a BIGGER problem persists - Mike Brown. He inherited this team from his father, who was a phenomenal football mind. Mike Brown is not. He's a businessman whose only concern is the bottom-line. That's all that has ever mattered to him. Even if that means fielding an 8-8 or 9-7 football team. So as long as one can achieve that as a HC you got job security in Cincy.

[WVRed]

Yep. It happens to the best of them. Burn out, nothing left in the tank, getting stale, whatever .... there's also a nice list of ex-head coaches who still, IMO, have something to offer to the game as a head coach, yet walked away for varying reasons.

Why put up with the emotional and psychological pressure, all the BS? ... when you can get a nice cozy job as an analyst on CBS or Fox? :D

Looking at where this organization was at, Marvin Lewis did a lot for this franchise IMO. But he doesn't have anything left in the tank, he's lost that fire, that competitive edge IMO. Apathy. Complacency.

So yeah - it's time for some "new blood" as far as a HC goes. The only problem is this franchise could also use some "new blood" as far as ownership. You dealt with one "problem" but, IMO, a BIGGER problem persists - Mike Brown. He inherited this team from his father, who was a phenomenal football mind. Mike Brown is not. He's a businessman whose only concern is the bottom-line. That's all that has ever mattered to him. Even if that means fielding an 8-8 or 9-7 football team. So as long as one can achieve that as a HC you got job security in Cincy.

That’s where I’m at. As much as I want Marvin gone, I cringe at the thought of SoP naming his replacement. The only thing that would make me happy is offering full control (Head Coach and GM) to Jon Gruden and hope that would be enough to pull him from ESPN.

Mike Brown hired Dave Shula over Bill Cowher, and then kept the futility alive with Coslet and LeBeau.

I don’t think it would be Guenther because he hasn’t been there long enough for any loyalty to be shown, same with Lazor.

But given what we know, it’ll probably be Jim Bob Cooter.

[WVRed]

Holy Cow...are people still crying about this!!!

The Meltdown at Paul Brown is a pretty hot topic and will continue to be until Marvin gets the axe in Cincinnati.

[Bob Sheed]

SoP

Nice. Haven't seen "soP" referenced in a while. It was a 90s staple.

[Sea Ray]

It's been this way forever.

In the early '70's, some media giant did a feature story on this subject. They featured George Allen and two others.It was sad. It looked like the most difficult job in the world, if you wanted to be successful at it. It's why great College Coaches consistently fail miserably at it. It's why success can't be sustained for very long. It drains the life out of them.

Interesting to me that college basketball coaching jobs seem to be far more stable than their football counterparts. Rarely are college BB coaches fired.

[Hoosier Red]

That’s where I’m at. As much as I want Marvin gone, I cringe at the thought of SoP naming his replacement. The only thing that would make me happy is offering full control (Head Coach and GM) to Jon Gruden and hope that would be enough to pull him from ESPN.

Mike Brown hired Dave Shula over Bill Cowher, and then kept the futility alive with Coslet and LeBeau.

I don’t think it would be Guenther because he hasn’t been there long enough for any loyalty to be shown, same with Lazor.

But given what we know, it’ll probably be Jim Bob Cooter.

Yeah I'm sure no one's thought to do that. ;)
Here's my question. Gruden definitely has a good resume. But was it so good that people expect he'd be an effective coach now 10 years after his last coaching job?

[bucksfan2]

Yep. It happens to the best of them. Burn out, nothing left in the tank, getting stale, whatever .... there's also a nice list of ex-head coaches who still, IMO, have something to offer to the game as a head coach, yet walked away for varying reasons.

Why put up with the emotional and psychological pressure, all the BS? ... when you can get a nice cozy job as an analyst on CBS or Fox? :D

Looking at where this organization was at, Marvin Lewis did a lot for this franchise IMO. But he doesn't have anything left in the tank, he's lost that fire, that competitive edge IMO. Apathy. Complacency.

So yeah - it's time for some "new blood" as far as a HC goes. The only problem is this franchise could also use some "new blood" as far as ownership. You dealt with one "problem" but, IMO, a BIGGER problem persists - Mike Brown. He inherited this team from his father, who was a phenomenal football mind. Mike Brown is not. He's a businessman whose only concern is the bottom-line. That's all that has ever mattered to him. Even if that means fielding an 8-8 or 9-7 football team. So as long as one can achieve that as a HC you got job security in Cincy.

Coaching takes a toll on every coach. I am sure its a manic job where the highs are high and the lows are low. And in the NFL you could have a good to great team and one injury can sink the ship. That has to weigh on a person. The entire season, leading up to it, the draft, everything is a drag. Seriously if you are a coach, you have a small window to do non NFL related things, and then when the season starts, its all consuming.

Tom Coughlin will go down as a HOF coach, but the last few years in NY he looked beaten down. I think John Harbaugh is one heck of a coach, but he looks like he has aged considerably the past few seasons.

I think Marvin has gotten stale and beaten down, and now is the time for fresh blood, a new perspective. If anything, I think you will see an offensive coach brought in. I don't worry about going back to the days of Schula or LeBeau, I do worry the next coach won't be on the same level as Marvin.

[Kingspoint]

Yeah I'm sure no one's thought to do that. ;)
Here's my question. Gruden definitely has a good resume. But was it so good that people expect he'd be an effective coach now 10 years after his last coaching job?

Based on everything I have seen and heard from Gruden himself, the game passed him by more than ten years ago. I'd rather have Katie Brown as Head Coach.

Guenther seems very capable to me. He's not quite the brown-noser that Lewis is, but he isn't independent enough that Mike Brown would feel a loss of control. He comes with experience that is decent, while he trained some under Mike Zimmer.

Just don't make Haslett Head Coach.

[Kingspoint]

Supposedly, Coaches and Management get a week or two in June off, but you know most of them are still working.

[Reds Fanatic]

John Ross is a healthy scratch today. With his mistake last week and Marvin as the coach he will be lucky to see the field again this year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redsfaithful]

No William Jackson so they're going to make Osweiler look like an All-Pro is my guess.

Shaw is the third corner.

[Kingspoint]

John Ross is a healthy scratch today. With his mistake last week and Marvin as the coach he will be lucky to see the field again this year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't care if Katie Blackburn is the Head Coach. I've always hated Marvin Lewis with a passion. He's slimey. If he were a Dickens' character, he would be Uriah Heep.

[Kingspoint]

Congratulations, Mike Zimmer, on another great victory. Thank goodness he got out of Cincinnati, like Carson and many others, before Mike Brown sucked the rest of his NFL life out of him.

[WrongVerb]

Dre nearly with the all time Bengals will Bungals play. Very lucky there.

[Reds Fanatic]

Safe to say the Bengals kept the wrong kicker another missed extra point

[Kingspoint]

Guenther sure looks like he's earning the right to be the next Head Coach.

[RiverRat13]

Safe to say the Bengals kept the wrong kicker another missed extra point

Jake Elliott is 24-27 for extra points for Philly, so it's not a slam dunk. And Bullock still might be battling a bad back. But when you consider their ages and the fact that the Bengals drafted Elliott, I agree they kept the wrong guy.

[RiverRat13]

Lazor trying to be too cute with that second and third down playcalling.

[RiverRat13]

Another week that the defense can't get off of the field on third down. The offense isn't doing them any favors by all of the three-and-outs, but still, find a way to get off the field.

[CTA513]

about 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter

time of possession stats so far:
CIN: 12:56
DEN: 27:10

:barf:

[Reds Fanatic]

about 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter

time of possession stats so far:
CIN: 12:56
DEN: 27:10

:barf:

The time of possession and the number of plays difference in these last 3 games must be about the worst stretch in Bengals history and that is really saying something

[WrongVerb]

The time of possession and the number of plays difference in these last 3 games must be about the worst stretch in Bengals history and that is really saying something

.and given that, the defense is playing amazingly well. Any semblance of an offense, and the Bengals are headed to the playoffs.

[WrongVerb]

3rd and 11 run play? Really?

[WrongVerb]

Bengals struggle to pull out a win versus a team on a six game losing streak. That isn't impressive.

[CTA513]

Bengals end up winning 20-17

final time of possession
CIN: 24:49
DEN: 35:11

offense struggles to stay on the field
defense struggles to get off the field
special teams is also struggling

You have to be pretty bad to lose to the Bengals right now

[RiverRat13]

Bengals struggle to pull out a win versus a team on a six game losing streak. That isn't impressive.

The Bengals aren't very good.

[Stray]

We're not really good at all and I just realized we're in the middle of the playoff race in the AFC. Weird season.

[traderumor]

Our offense isn't very good. The D has been good enough that we should have won 2 of these 3 straight road games.

However, a microcosm of the 3rd down issues, 3rd and 12 deep in their own territory in the 4th qtr. and Burfict sprints backwards, giving the TE time to get to the sticks and catch a timing pass. Who would teach that technique?

[Sea Ray]

Bengals struggle to pull out a win versus a team on a six game losing streak. That isn't impressive.

They're a bad team. We knew that before the game and we know it now. What's new is that we now know the Broncos are worse than us.

[Sea Ray]

Congratulations, Mike Zimmer, on another great victory. Thank goodness he got out of Cincinnati, like Carson and many others, before Mike Brown sucked the rest of his NFL life out of him.

Mike Brown sucks and all but the grass isn't always greener when you leave Cincinnati. Granted Zimmer looks like a helluva coach and I'd love to see him here, but three other former Bengal coaches I have no interest seeing as a head coach here in Cincinnati: Vance Joseph, Jay Gruden and Hue Jackson. That's one out four. Not bad if you're Mike Brown and defending who he "let go". Gruden looked very Marvin-like in allowing a 15 pt lead to vanish in 3 mins today.

[Sea Ray]

Our offense isn't very good. The D has been good enough that we should have won 2 of these 3 straight road games.

However, a microcosm of the 3rd down issues, 3rd and 12 deep in their own territory in the 4th qtr. and Burfict sprints backwards, giving the TE time to get to the sticks and catch a timing pass. Who would teach that technique?

How 'bout the technique of our 4 down linemen on defense and one of the four is a yard deep? How long have we been doing that? What's the point in putting a hand down on the ground in a 3 pt stance if you do that?

[membengal]

Nightmare scenario unfolding - Bengals limp to 7 wins, second wild card is 8-8 and Marvin gets a new contract because he "kept the team in it"...

[Sea Ray]

Nightmare scenario unfolding - Bengals limp to 7 wins, second wild card is 8-8 and Marvin gets a new contract because he "kept the team in it"...

One thing I learned a long time ago with Mike Brown, records don't matter. He's kept horrible coaches after horrible seasons. I used to think like you do and wished for complete meltdowns so that we'd see massive change. After a few Dave Shula seasons I decided I might as well enjoy the wins like any Bengal fan and Mike Brown will do what he does regardless.

It's a good sign that we haven't heard about any contract extensions. IMO Marvin will come out and say something like he's ready for a break from coaching and is stepping down. This will save MB the "pain" of firing his good pal. Like you, I'll be hugely disappointed if Marvin is back next yr along with most of his staff.

[WVRed]

One thing I learned a long time ago with Mike Brown, records don't matter. He's kept horrible coaches after horrible seasons. I used to think like you do and wished for complete meltdowns so that we'd see massive change. After a few Dave Shula seasons I decided I might as well enjoy the wins like any Bengal fan and Mike Brown will do what he does regardless.

It's a good sign that we haven't heard about any contract extensions. IMO Marvin will come out and say something like he's ready for a break from coaching and is stepping down. This will save MB the "pain" of firing his good pal. Like you, I'll be hugely disappointed if Marvin is back next yr along with most of his staff.

I’m looking more for he’s shopping around with other teams in the offseason and MB bites and gives him an extension.

[traderumor]

They're a bad team. We knew that before the game and we know it now. What's new is that we now know the Broncos are worse than us.And that Brock Osweiler is a historically bad NFL bad QB that is made worse in that someone gave him a $70M contract. What's even worse, is that the Browns are paying $15.25M of his $16M this year. "Stupid is as stupid does."

[WrongVerb]

Nightmare scenario unfolding - Bengals limp to 7 wins, second wild card is 8-8 and Marvin gets a new contract because he "kept the team in it"...

I'm only seeing one more win for The Bengals this season. And that's the Browns.

[membengal]

I'm only seeing one more win for The Bengals this season. And that's the Browns.

Browns. Bears at home. That's 6. They can luck into one more somewhere. That's seven.

[bucksfan2]

Browns. Bears at home. That's 6. They can luck into one more somewhere. That's seven.

The Bengals have 4 home games left, and a tilt against the Ravens to end the season. I think they can win up to four games the remainder of the season.

The Brockweiler is garbage, but the Bronco's have a legit defense. I thought the line played better yesterday that they have all season long.

The Bengals are far from a good team, but they have a chance to make the remaining games somewhat interesting.

[Redsfaithful]

Browns. Bears at home. That's 6. They can luck into one more somewhere. That's seven.

I think at the level they are playing at right now, they could lose to the Bears.

They'll definitely lose to the Steelers and Vikings. Everything else at least plausibly could go either way, but this is a team that can't run the ball or keep the other offense off the field, so I think they'll lose out other than the Browns and maybe one other fluke win.

5-11 or 6-10 looks about right.

Next year we'll see Hue back as head coach. I don't know if it's what I want, but I think it's the best bet of what's going to happen. Given his comments today I think he's done in Cleveland.

Edited to add they could plausibly also lose to the Browns, I'm just making best guesses here.

[membengal]

Of course they CAN lose out - it’s just that I don’t think they will. They will win just enough to see them defend keeping Marvin. They are a terrible team - but at 4-6 now, with enough home games and fellow bad teams still left - 7-9 is very possible.

[Sea Ray]

The local media is talking up how they can still make the playoffs but they're forgetting one thing: They're a bad football team. They're not going to beat the Steelers on MNF. They're not going to all of a sudden become a decent team. They're just not talented enough or coached well enough

[Redsfaithful]

The local media is talking up how they can still make the playoffs but they're forgetting one thing: They're a bad football team. They're not going to beat the Steelers on MNF. They're not going to all of a sudden become a decent team. They're just not talented enough or coached well enough

I've never seen a team where I feel like it's coaching as much as this one.

They do the things game after game that are so hard to figure out.

The thing about Marvin Lewis that is not excusable (well, maybe one thing) is that he forces things. He doesn't take what another team gives, he wants to impose their will on the other team. Instead of game planning around what the players on the roster do well, they try to make them fit the system.

The best example of this is Gio Bernard running between the tackles (plus the lack of ideas on how to use Gio at all lately.)

Another thing I've seen pointed out on Twitter is how much they line up under center, which doesn't fit their bad offensive line or Andy Dalton's weaknesses at all.

I feel like they have actually have enough talent to finish 4-2 (even with good coaching I wouldn't expect them to beat the Steelers or Vikings), but I expect 1-5.

[bucksfan2]

The local media is talking up how they can still make the playoffs but they're forgetting one thing: They're a bad football team. They're not going to beat the Steelers on MNF. They're not going to all of a sudden become a decent team. They're just not talented enough or coached well enough

Have you seen the AFC playoff race? The Bills are/were holding the 6th spot. There really aren't a whole bunch of quality AFC teams this season.

Nothing would surprise me down the stretch, but the conference is so bad at this point, anything can happen.

[Sea Ray]

I've never seen a team where I feel like it's coaching as much as this one.

They do the things game after game that are so hard to figure out.

The thing about Marvin Lewis that is not excusable (well, maybe one thing) is that he forces things. He doesn't take what another team gives, he wants to impose their will on the other team. Instead of game planning around what the players on the roster do well, they try to make them fit the system.

The best example of this is Gio Bernard running between the tackles (plus the lack of ideas on how to use Gio at all lately.)

Another thing I've seen pointed out on Twitter is how much they line up under center, which doesn't fit their bad offensive line or Andy Dalton's weaknesses at all.

I feel like they have actually have enough talent to finish 4-2 (even with good coaching I wouldn't expect them to beat the Steelers or Vikings), but I expect 1-5.

No question, coaching is a big part of it. To my eyes the most damning indicator of this is their utter futility in the 2nd half of games. They've been absolutely putrid after halftime and I think that shows that they're getting out coached. Other teams are making adjustments and our coaches are doing kinda as you say, just forcing their game plan on the opponent. No attempt to fool the opponent or strategize.

Furthermore I notice that our opponents have receivers much more open than ours. I think that's due to their schemes and strategy whereas we are predictable. This was a problem previously under Marvin when Bratkowski was here

But whether it's talent or coaching, we are what we are this yr and that is: a bad team...so we ain't winning enough games to grab that last WC spot in a weak AFC

[Sea Ray]

Have you seen the AFC playoff race? The Bills are/were holding the 6th spot. There really aren't a whole bunch of quality AFC teams this season.

Nothing would surprise me down the stretch, but the conference is so bad at this point, anything can happen.

I hear you that the AFC is weak outside of a couple teams but even with that weakness, we're not going to hang. That's more a commentary on how bad we are. We couldn't beat Houston when they were terrible and we couldn't beat a very mediocre Tenn team. Those are the kinds of games we need to win.

[bucksfan2]

I hear you that the AFC is weak outside of a couple teams but even with that weakness, we're not going to hang. That's more a commentary on how bad we are. We couldn't beat Houston when they were terrible and we couldn't beat a very mediocre Tenn team. Those are the kinds of games we need to win.

Right now the Bengals have lost most of the toss up games. Yes they lost to Houston, but lets not forget they played Houston back when they were close to full strength.

I think Tenn is a mediocre team, a team which they lost too on the last drive away. If you ask me they are very comparable teams.

Truthfully I think they are a mediocre team in a mediocre conference. It wouldn't surprise me if they got to 7-9 or 8-8 because that is what I see out of the team. They should be 5-6 heading into a Monday night game against Pitt. A game they should lose, probably will lose, but they have a chance to make the end of the season interesting. For as bad as everyone says this team is, I am glad there is a chance to see meaningful football in December.

[Kingspoint]

Safe to say the Bengals kept the wrong kicker another missed extra point

They may get a chance to correct that mistake.

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

Eagles K Jake Elliott is in the concussion protocol.

Elliott suffered the injury making a tackle on the opening kickoff in the win over the Cowboys on Sunday night. Elliott has been very good for the Eagles so far this year, but with Caleb Sturgis eligible to return from injured reserve, the Eagles could decide to make a change if it looks like Elliott will miss a game.

Source: Dave Spadaro on Twitter

[Kingspoint]

Burfict had PFF's highest grade for any Linebacker in Week 11.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/nfl-week-11-sunday-standouts-defense

LB Vontaze Burfict, Cincinnati Bengals, 89.8 overall grade.

The Cincinnati Bengals picked up the win yesterday and, in an AFC where no team looks like the dominant team for the final wild card spot, they are still in the hunt. Linebacker Vontaze Burfict had a huge game against the run, racking up six tackles resulting in a defensive stop on 27 snaps against the run, giving him a 22.2 run stop percentage.

[Kingspoint]

The reason Sims was released last week is because DT Ryan Glasgow has been on a meteoric rise. He's making what was already the league's best Defensive Line (yes, it is better than the Jags') even better.

I've been saying for a long time that Adam Jones needs to go away before this Secondary will ever improve (soP won't get rid of the turd). Thankfully, he was injured and missed the game opening up an opportunity for Josh Shaw to prove himself. Shaw was very good on Sunday. (Nevermind that PFF has him listed at Safety as he plays multiple positions, but he was the RCB and Nickel back Sunday with WJIII out.)

PFF's Top-5 graded Bengals vs the Broncos:

LB Vontaze Burfict, 89.9 overall grade

S Josh Shaw, 84.6 overall grade

DI Geno Atkins, 83.1 overall grade

QB Andy Dalton, 81.2 overall grade

DI Ryan Glasgow, 81.1 overall grade

PFF gave Burfict the Game Ball.


I should post this:

DI DOMATA PEKO SR., 83.8 OVERALL GRADE

Already mentioned above that Peko notched five run stops on the afternoon, he also tacked on two more in coverage, snuffing out two Bengals screen passes. Peko has enjoyed a bit of a resurgence since signing on with the Broncos, he currently owns a 79.1 overall grade for the season after posting grades ranging from 43.0-50.6 over the last four seasons. He’s recorded 19 stops for Denver on 339 defensive snaps this season, the last time he had more than 20 stops in a season (23 in 2014) it took him over 700 snaps to earn them.


It gets mentioned frequently how Peko has been used differently by the Broncos than he was ever used by the Bengals. Makes you wonder.

[Redsfaithful]

I was glad to see Shaw do better, because he was abysmal the week before.

[bucksfan2]

The reason Sims was released last week is because DT Ryan Glasgow has been on a meteoric rise. He's making what was already the league's best Defensive Line (yes, it is better than the Jags') even better.

I've been saying for a long time that Adam Jones needs to go away before this Secondary will ever improve (soP won't get rid of the turd). Thankfully, he was injured and missed the game opening up an opportunity for Josh Shaw to prove himself. Shaw was very good on Sunday. (Nevermind that PFF has him listed at Safety as he plays multiple positions, but he was the RCB and Nickel back Sunday with WJIII out.)

PFF's Top-5 graded Bengals vs the Broncos:

LB Vontaze Burfict, 89.9 overall grade

S Josh Shaw, 84.6 overall grade

DI Geno Atkins, 83.1 overall grade

QB Andy Dalton, 81.2 overall grade

DI Ryan Glasgow, 81.1 overall grade

PFF gave Burfict the Game Ball.


I should post this:

DI DOMATA PEKO SR., 83.8 OVERALL GRADE

Already mentioned above that Peko notched five run stops on the afternoon, he also tacked on two more in coverage, snuffing out two Bengals screen passes. Peko has enjoyed a bit of a resurgence since signing on with the Broncos, he currently owns a 79.1 overall grade for the season after posting grades ranging from 43.0-50.6 over the last four seasons. He’s recorded 19 stops for Denver on 339 defensive snaps this season, the last time he had more than 20 stops in a season (23 in 2014) it took him over 700 snaps to earn them.


It gets mentioned frequently how Peko has been used differently by the Broncos than he was ever used by the Bengals. Makes you wonder.

Yea they mentioned on the telecast that Peko in Denver was used more on the attack where in Cincy he was used more as someone who took up blockers. I don't know enough about the schemes, but I do wonder if having Atkins as the other DT forced Peko into a different role? Also Denver has had a more dynamic defense than the Bengals, maybe that helps.

[Kingspoint]

Yea they mentioned on the telecast that Peko in Denver was used more on the attack where in Cincy he was used more as someone who took up blockers. I don't know enough about the schemes, but I do wonder if having Atkins as the other DT forced Peko into a different role? Also Denver has had a more dynamic defense than the Bengals, maybe that helps.

Or maybe Vance Joseph should have been named Head Coach.

[membengal]

Broncos are 3-7, so, no?

[JaxRed]

What do Bengals do going forward at QB?

[dubc47834]

Broncos are 3-7, so, no?

They also don't have a QB that's worth anything, that's on John Elway!!!!

[WrongVerb]

What do Bengals do going forward at QB?

Construct an offensive line that can actually protect him. Give Dalton time, and he's very effective.

[Sea Ray]

What do Bengals do going forward at QB?

Keep him until we find someone better. I do think they should look a little harder but I'll also say that Dalton isn't one of their top problems. There are very few QBs who are difference makers in the NFL...guys who are the difference between 10-6 and 6-10...Brady, Rodgers, Russell Wilson and maybe young guys like Watson and Wentz but that's about it. Brees looks like one of those guys this yr but he didn't have that effect in recent yrs.

[Sea Ray]

Construct an offensive line that can actually protect him. Give Dalton time, and he's very effective.

And I'll build on that. In the off season the Bengals need to have a Manhattan Project on their O-line. Give this nearly all your energy and reassess from top to bottom what needs to be done to see to it that this travesty doesn't happen for a 3rd yr in a row. This starts with deciding whether your coaching needs to change. Personally I would replace Marvin and Paul Alexander. My next priority would be to get by, any means, a good center. Third would be picking up an O lineman in free agency and a high draft pick. That's the kind of effort that it'll take to fix this mess.

[Redsfaithful]

What do Bengals do going forward at QB?

Depends on their draft pick. If they are top 5 they have to draft a QB.

Cutting Dalton would be really cheap the way his contract is structured. He is completely serviceable when protected, but he can't carry a team the way franchise guys can.

[JaxRed]

And let McCarron walk?

[WVRed]

Depends on their draft pick. If they are top 5 they have to draft a QB.

Cutting Dalton would be really cheap the way his contract is structured. He is completely serviceable when protected, but he can't carry a team the way franchise guys can.

Depends on who the QB is.

Lamar Jackson is the highest risk in the draft. Best case scenario, he’s Michael Vick. Worst case, he’s Akili Smith.

Sam Darnold falls in line with every other USC QB. Carson Palmer has been the best but Leinart and Sanchez were busts. I don’t know which one Darnold reminds me of.

Josh Rosen might be the best but all indications are he is a major headcase.

Mason Rudolph could shoot up draft boards, same with Wyoming’s Josh Allen or Northwesterns Clayton Thorson.

[Kingspoint]

And I'll build on that. In the off season the Bengals need to have a Manhattan Project on their O-line. Give this nearly all your energy and reassess from top to bottom what needs to be done to see to it that this travesty doesn't happen for a 3rd yr in a row. This starts with deciding whether your coaching needs to change. Personally I would replace Marvin and Paul Alexander. My next priority would be to get by, any means, a good center. Third would be picking up an O lineman in free agency and a high draft pick. That's the kind of effort that it'll take to fix this mess.

This is my annual post for the last 15 years.

[Redsfaithful]

And let McCarron walk?

I think he might be starting QB caliber (more likely not, but sure, maybe), but I doubt he's special, which means they're right back where they were with Dalton.

[GAC]

Construct an offensive line that can actually protect him. Give Dalton time, and he's very effective.

Bingo! Go back and look at Dalton's numbers last year, where he was ranked in the QB class. A third tier QB is considered a legitimate starter. In '15 and '16 Andy was considered a second tier QB. I think Dalton excels at reading defenses and getting the ball out quickly. But when he has to scramble, chased out of the pocket - he's not as accurate. When you have offensive line "concerns", like the Bengals do, that creates a problem and is a huge part of the Bengal's offensive struggles - as well as Dalton's - IMO

[Kingspoint]

Bingo! Go back and look at Dalton's numbers last year, where he was ranked in the QB class. A third tier QB is considered a legitimate starter. In '15 and '16 Andy was considered a second tier QB. I think Dalton excels at reading defenses and getting the ball out quickly. But when he has to scramble, chased out of the pocket - he's not as accurate. When you have offensive line "concerns", like the Bengals do, that creates a problem and is a huge part of the Bengal's offensive struggles - as well as Dalton's - IMO

Dak Prescott has looked worse than Dalton lately while dealing with half the Offensive Line problems Dalton has had to deal with. Dak gets his starting LT back this week, so he should look better.

- - - Updated - - -

Happy Thanksgiving, btw.

[Ohayou]

I'd consider Rosen or Jackson, maybe, but upgrading the OL should be the Bengals #1 priority in next year's draft. Luke Falk, though, I really like and would definitely consider trading down in the first for him, or grabbing him in the second. I don't think he's going to go much later than that, but who knows.

[Tony Cloninger]

Again Mike and even Paul Brown let one of if not the best Guard go during Plan B FA because he thought his business ties would keep him here for less money. He had a restaurant here. There is not valuing G as much as T in regards to overpaying and there is gross negligence and stupidity. When it comes to the OL Mike has been a big time moron with his lack of fixing it and then keeping an OL coach who has antiquated coaching techniques to go along with the inability to see past his favorites. But since his wife is close to MB's wife well he's a keeper for life. Like a Supreme Court judge.

[GAC]

Dak Prescott has looked worse than Dalton lately while dealing with half the Offensive Line problems Dalton has had to deal with. Dak gets his starting LT back this week, so he should look better.

Yeah - last year all my co-worker Cowboy fans were raving on Prescott. You'd think he was the second coming of Roger Staubach (LOL). I said nothing simply because he was a rookie, and it's a pretty small window to judge. And I'm certainly not saying he doesn't have a bright future or will be a bust either. But he's had his struggles this year as the league has seen more of him, started to adapt IMO.

Couldn't believe that game yesterday vs the Chargers. Rivers shredded them. Cowboys have not only lost three straight by at least 20 points, but have been outscore in the second half of those game 72-6.

And I don't think one can blame all of their offensive struggles simply on not having Eliot either.

[RiverRat13]

Bell is going to run for 150+ on the Bengals next Monday night.

[CTA513]

Bengals beat the Browns 30-16

Mixon had his first 100 rushing game (114 total)
Lawson had a sack and a half giving him the lead on the Bengals with 7 sacks this season
Offensive line played better, still room for improvement
Defense still gets sloppy at times, especially with missed tackles.

The win puts them at 5-6 with next weeks game being at home against the Steelers.

[Sea Ray]

Anyone else sick of hearing these announcers railing on and on about whether that was a personal foul on the Josh Malone play? Well, I don't know if it was a PF but it sure as hell was pass interference. The Browns' defender was holding his right arm. Since when is holding an arm back not impeding a receiver from catching a ball? That's what they should have been talking about.

Man, why can't we play against the Browns every week? We look like a decent team on those Sundays. For another year I'm left wondering how a team can manage to be so bad again and again.

[WrongVerb]

Nice to see the Bengals get their final win of the season.

[CTA513]

Anyone else sick of hearing these announcers railing on and on about whether that was a personal foul on the Josh Malone play? Well, I don't know if it was a PF but it sure as hell was pass interference. The Browns' defender was holding his right arm. Since when is holding an arm back not impeding a receiver from catching a ball? That's what they should have been talking about.

Man, why can't we play against the Browns every week? We look like a decent team on those Sundays. For another year I'm left wondering how a team can manage to be so bad again and again.

I don't think the hit warranted a defenseless receiver penalty, though I'll take it if they aren't going to call the holding penalty that forced Malone to catch the ball one handed.

[Sea Ray]

Nice to see the Bengals get their final win of the season.

You don't think they'll beat the Bears in two weeks?

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I don't think the hit warranted a defenseless receiver penalty, though I'll take it if they aren't going to call the holding penalty that forced Malone to catch the ball one handed.

Well kinda. It was more than holding. It was PI because the arm was being held as the ball was arriving. The PI would have been a larger penalty than unnecessary roughness so actually the Browns got a break there

[Redsfaithful]

I hope the full story on John Ross gets leaked someday. In any other city I think it would, in Cincinnati who knows?

They're going to get crushed next week, but if I wanted to hope on something I guess it would be that they just ran on the 6th ranked rushing defense and Dalton has actually been average-good since Lazor became coordinator.

But I imagine everyone here knows better than to get hopes up.

It's wild how bad the AFC is. I never thought the Bengals would have any life at all in December this year. They don't deserve it, but here they are.

The really crazy thing is they were so close to beating Tennessee, Green Bay, and Houston. Win 1 or 2 of those and they'd amazingly be a favorite right now for the last Wild Card.

[WrongVerb]

So sick of Pittsburgh. The hit by Watt on Hundley was helmet to helmet and not called. If that was Burfict, he'd have been flagged and fined.

[Stray]

It would have been pretty easy for the Bengals to mail it in this year. They struggle in a bunch of areas, but they haven't and that's something. Nothing will come easy for this roster, but they're gritting out enough wins to play meaningful games late in the year.

My opinion of the roster and staff is unchanged, but proud of the fight. I'll give Marv credit for that, keeping this mess together is impressive.

[GAC]

What can I say (or add)? .... I'm a Brown's fan! :lol:

I think both of these defenses played like crap yesterday. It was pretty much hand the ball off to (whoever) and "catch me if you can"! LOL

Simply terrible tackling. Do they teach that in the NFL anymore?

766 total yards put up yesterday ...... Browns (405) Bengals (361)

Rushing .... Browns (169 - 5.5 yds/att) Bengals (152 - 5.1 yds/att)
Passing .... Browns (236 yds) Bengals (209)

I think that is Kizer's best performance to date .... 18/31 268 yds and no turnovers

And I didn't know Andy could run like that (LOL)

But this is the only number (stat) that counts ...... 30-16 ;)

[Redsfaithful]

So sick of Pittsburgh. The hit by Watt on Hundley was helmet to helmet and not called. If that was Burfict, he'd have been flagged and fined.

Here's video, I'd encourage all Bengals fans to watch: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/26/16703644/tj-watt-pittsburgh-steelers-green-bay-packers-sack-rule-roughing-the-passer

Steelers fans are claiming that he was a runner (he looks like he tucks in anticipating contact, but ok, people have to find a justification for why this is ok I guess.)

That allowed the Steelers to have one more possession mind you, so it was a critical moment and call, of course.

Nobody can say with a straight face that a non-favored NFL team wouldn't have been flagged there.

The Browns? Flag.

The Bengals? Flag.

Burfict? Flag, and hell they'd eject him if they felt like they could get away with it.

But if you talk about the NFL being rigged you're crazy.

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I think that is Kizer's best performance to date .... 18/31 268 yds and no turnovers

Kizer made some very legit throws, some of which were dropped. I think he could be a credible NFL starter.

[GAC]

Here's video, I'd encourage all Bengals fans to watch: https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/26/16703644/tj-watt-pittsburgh-steelers-green-bay-packers-sack-rule-roughing-the-passer

Steelers fans are claiming that he was a runner (he looks like he tucks in anticipating contact, but ok, people have to find a justification for why this is ok I guess.)

That allowed the Steelers to have one more possession mind you, so it was a critical moment and call, of course.

Nobody can say with a straight face that a non-favored NFL team wouldn't have been flagged there.

The Browns? Flag.

The Bengals? Flag.

Burfict? Flag, and hell they'd eject him if they felt like they could get away with it.

But if you talk about the NFL being rigged you're crazy.

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Kizer made some very legit throws, some of which were dropped. I think he could be a credible NFL starter.

I agree with you. Watched the video - Watt was lowering his head and getting ready to lower the boom on the QB. Definitely helmet-to-helmet. Yet this is the line-of reasoning (excuse) for why a flag wasn't thrown...


Quarterbacks are protected and cannot be hit in the helmet. But runners who lower their head into collisions don’t have those same protections.

With Hundley aware the contact was coming, lowering his head into it and attempting to push forward for yardage as a runner, the play was ruled correctly by officials.

So helmet-to-helmet doesn't apply to a "runner", which is what the QB was in this instance. I can understand that line-of-reasoning, interpretation/application of the rule. I just don't know, in that particular situation, where a QB is about to be sacked and is, IMO, basically bracing himself, which involved lowering his head (helmet) for an imminent hit -seemed more like a defensive posture to me - that he should be defined as a runner.

[membengal]

Nice to see the Bengals get their final win of the season.

The Bears are REALLY bad. Pretty sure the Bengals win that one, but drop the other four likely. 6-10 after going 6-9-1 last year. All hail Marvin.

[Sea Ray]

I agree with you. Watched the video - Watt was lowering his head and getting ready to lower the boom on the QB. Definitely helmet-to-helmet. Yet this is the line-of reasoning (excuse) for why a flag wasn't thrown...



So helmet-to-helmet doesn't apply to a "runner", which is what the QB was in this instance. I can understand that line-of-reasoning, interpretation/application of the rule. I just don't know, in that particular situation, where a QB is about to be sacked and is, IMO, basically bracing himself, which involved lowering his head (helmet) for an imminent hit -seemed more like a defensive posture to me - that he should be defined as a runner.

All I want is consistency. If that's not a flag then I don't want to see Burfict flagged when he's the one doing the hitting

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The Bears are REALLY bad. Pretty sure the Bengals win that one, but drop the other four likely. 6-10 after going 6-9-1 last year. All hail Marvin.

I think the best they do is 8-8 but so what? Marvin and Co still need to go

[GAC]

The Bears are REALLY bad. Pretty sure the Bengals win that one, but drop the other four likely. 6-10 after going 6-9-1 last year. All hail Marvin.

Yep. Chicago only has three wins, but those wins were vs the Steelers, Ravens, and Panthers, whose combined record is 22-10. And they've also lost some really close games that could've went either way.

Just sayin' ..... cautious. Don't take them lightly. ;)

[GAC]

I think the best they do is 8-8 but so what? Marvin and Co still need to go

In the AFC, 8-8 could still get you a WC game (LOL).

But I know where you're coming from ;)

[membengal]

Yep. Chicago only has three wins, but those wins were vs the Steelers, Ravens, and Panthers, whose combined record is 22-10. And they've also lost some really close games that could've went either way.

Just sayin' ..... cautious. Don't take them lightly. ;)

I'm not taking them lightly. And I don't give a **** really, other than I find it unlikely the Bengals lose out - so not sure how much of a limb I am on that they will beat a Chicago team that is truly terrible on the road and just got massacred yesterday. It's not like I am invested in them being 6-10 instead of 5-11. So if you think they are gonna lose out, I guess I will defer to you, since you know from losing given what you have witnessed as a Browns fan. I would prefer 5-11 myself, to ensure Marvin fired and for a better draft pick, but I just don't think they go 0-5 from here.

[membengal]

My only amendment to that would be, IF the bengals somehow beat the Steelers next Monday in whatever kind of miracle that would be, then they would definitely lose to the Bears.

[GAC]

So if you think they are gonna lose out, I guess I will defer to you, since you know from losing given what you have witnessed as a Browns fan. I would prefer 5-11 myself, to ensure Marvin fired and for a better draft pick, but I just don't think they go 0-5 from here.

I never made the contention that the Bengals were going to lose out. After the Steelers this coming Sunday, their remaining schedule is Bears, Vikings, Lions, Ravens. IMO, three of those games are winnable for the Bengals.

[membengal]

I never made the contention that the Bengals were going to lose out. After the Steelers this coming Sunday, their remaining schedule is Bears, Vikings, Lions, Ravens. IMO, three of those games are winnable for the Bengals.

ok...so you warn me to "not take the Bears lightly" but then figure the Bengals have winnable games against 3 teams in the playoff hunt. Got it.

I don't think I am on a limb to look at the last five and circle the Bears in Cincy as the most winnable game on paper. Not sure what issue you have with that.

[GAC]

ok...so you warn me to "not take the Bears lightly" but then figure the Bengals have winnable games against 3 teams in the playoff hunt. Got it.

It wasn't a warning (LOL). All I said, a harmless statement, was not to take the Bears lightly when one looks at the teams they beat? Don't understand the problem?


I don't think I am on a limb to look at the last five and circle the Bears in Cincy as the most winnable game on paper. Not sure what issue you have with that.

I don't have any issue with that. I didn't say the Bengals were going to lose did I? Don't know why you think it is an issue, or I'm making it one? LOL

I simply think there is more then one game left on the schedule that the Bengals can win. Yeah, the Vikings are 9-2; but other then the Steelers, who they lost to big time, who have they played? IMO, they're vulnerable. I just think the Bengal's last four games are winnable. Any Given Sunday.

[Sea Ray]

It wasn't a warning (LOL). All I said, a harmless statement, was not to take the Bears lightly when one looks at the teams they beat? Don't understand the problem?



I don't have any issue with that. I didn't say the Bengals were going to lose did I? Don't know why you think it is an issue, or I'm making it one? LOL

I simply think there is more then one game left on the schedule that the Bengals can win. Yeah, the Vikings are 9-2; but other then the Steelers, who they lost to big time, who have they played? IMO, they're vulnerable. I just think the Bengal's last four games are winnable. Any Given Sunday.

The Bengals are a bad team. They'll show that a week from tonight but as for who they've beaten, the Bills. That's it

[Oxilon]

The Bengals are a bad team. They'll show that a week from tonight but as for who they've beaten, the Bills. That's it

No doubt they're a bad team, but losing next week wouldn't be a kick to the nuts as we've come accustomed too. I fully expect the Bengals to not only win next week but also have a playoff-like game in Week 17.

It's only than will the Bengals show their true colors and Bungle their chances on national television. And of course, Marvin will get extended since they were competitive for the season and that's all that matters.

[Redsfaithful]

I think they'll be 6-7 in two weeks, which is still crazy to me. I didn't think they'd have a shot at a winning record with three games to go, like they would have in that scenario.

Mike Brown will 100% offer to renew Marvin if they go 8-8. I hope everyone realizes that.

I think Marvin might actually decide to decline, but Mike will offer.

[Sea Ray]

I think they'll be 6-7 in two weeks, which is still crazy to me. I didn't think they'd have a shot at a winning record with three games to go, like they would have in that scenario.

Mike Brown will 100% offer to renew Marvin if they go 8-8. I hope everyone realizes that.

I think Marvin might actually decide to decline, but Mike will offer.

I agree all the way around.

[bucksfan2]

The Bengals are a bad team. They'll show that a week from tonight but as for who they've beaten, the Bills. That's it

This has been said ad nauseam about the Bengals, they are a bad team. But the reality is they pretty much are a mediocre team, a mediocre team in a pretty mediocre conference. For as bad as we claim the Bengals to be, they are in the mix for a playoff berth. They are a flawed team, but right now they aren't a bad team. Actually they are a team that is getting better as the season goes along. They may not make it to the playoffs, but I am enjoying watching this team play over the better teams led by Palmer in his hey day in Cincinnati.

Will they beat the Steelers, probably not, but lets not forget that it took a 50+ FG for the Steelers to beat the Brett Hundley led Packers and also a late TD to beat the hapless Colts in Indy. I don't expect them to win, but it wouldn't shock me.

[Redsfaithful]

Um, not sure what to make of Bill Barnwell on the Bengals here. He has the Bengals 3rd on this list:

Ranking NFL teams that could sneak into the playoffs from 11-1

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwellx171127/ranking-11-nfl-teams-2017-playoff-picture-sneak-field


Nobody gets excited by the Bengals at this point, but they're quietly rounding into form, especially on offense. The Andrew Whitworth-less offensive line was a disaster early in the season, and I'm still not sure I trust Cedric Ogbuehi at left tackle, but this passing game might have turned the corner. Let's look at two anonymous quarterbacks and how they've performed since Week 8:
Player Gms Cmp Att Cmp% Yds Y/Att TD INT Rating
Quarterback A 5 80 135 59.3 1025 7.6 9 0 104.9
Quarterback C 4 70 122 57.4 805 6.6 11 1 104.0

He has played one additional game, but Quarterback A -- Andy Dalton -- has put up similar rate statistics to Quarterback C, who is Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz. Wentz's Total QBR has been significantly better, but if you're in the same neighborhood of raw statistics as the guy who has been solidifying his MVP candidacy, you're doing something right. Dalton also has played the Broncos and Jaguars over that stretch, so it hasn't all been against Browns-level opposition, either.

The offense might not need to contribute all that much, either. The Bengals' defense ranked 12th in DVOA heading into this week's game against the Browns, which saw them allow 405 yards while holding DeShone Kizer & Co. to 16 points. Cleveland was one of the reasons why the Bengals had the easiest remaining slate of opposing offenses heading into the week; after the Steelers next week, the Bengals finish up with the Bears, Vikings, Lions and Ravens.

Crucially, the Cincinnati defense is getting healthy, which could come in handy in December. The only starter it missed against the Browns was safety Shawn Williams, with Adam Jones and depth corner Darqueze Dennard returning to the fold. The Bengals did lose linebacker Nick Vigil during the game with an ankle injury, but they are capable of getting by with Kevin Minter and Vontaze Burfict as their linebackers in the nickel.

Cincinnati's season might very well come down to what the Bengals do against the Steelers next week and whether they can beat the Ravens in Week 17. The New York Times suggests that Bengals victories in both games would bump their playoff chances from 9 percent to 43 percent. Given how inconsistent both those teams are from week to week, it's hardly out of the question to peg Cincinnati as a surprise candidate to soar up the ranks.

Who misses out: The Ravens would be the obvious pick to drop out of the playoff picture if the Bengals sneak in. Cincinnati also holds a head-to-head win over the Bills, which would come in handy as a tiebreaker.

I'm refusing to get sucked in.

[Hoosier Red]

This has been said ad nauseam about the Bengals, they are a bad team. But the reality is they pretty much are a mediocre team, a mediocre team in a pretty mediocre conference. For as bad as we claim the Bengals to be, they are in the mix for a playoff berth. They are a flawed team, but right now they aren't a bad team. Actually they are a team that is getting better as the season goes along. They may not make it to the playoffs, but I am enjoying watching this team play over the better teams led by Palmer in his hey day in Cincinnati.

Will they beat the Steelers, probably not, but lets not forget that it took a 50+ FG for the Steelers to beat the Brett Hundley led Packers and also a late TD to beat the hapless Colts in Indy. I don't expect them to win, but it wouldn't shock me.

Agreed all around, as a Bengals fan, last night's game gave me everything I could ask for, 1)The Packers played Pittsburgh tough and hopefully exposed some vulnerabilities. 2) The Steelers still won the game so instead of coming to Cincinnati looking to rebound off a loss, they're perhaps flying a little too high off a win.

Pittsburgh hasn't necessarily been playing well consistently, but they've done enough to beat some really bad teams.

[GAC]

The Bengals are a bad team. They'll show that a week from tonight but as for who they've beaten, the Bills. That's it

I've certainly not said the Bengals are a good team, nor that they don't have issues (LOL). But have you taken a good, hard look around the NFL? There's a lot of mediocrity, and teams with issues. One team at .500, and 17 below.

Again, that's not making "excuses" for the Bengals, nor am I defending Lewis. I've already stated my feelings on him (he's worn/burned out, time for a change for sure).

I think the Bengals finish either 7-9 or possibly 8-8. No, that's nothing to be proud of ... but you're talking to a Browns fan ..... I'LL TAKE IT! :lol:

IMO, the "issues" with the Bengals are fixable, wouldn't require some sort of tear-down or rebuild (i.e Reds). But it would require the right person at the helm to do it... and Marvin doesn't have it anymore IMO.

[GAC]

Mike Brown will 100% offer to renew Marvin if they go 8-8. I hope everyone realizes that.

I think Marvin might actually decide to decline, but Mike will offer.

Problem highlighted. ;)

So I wouldn't put any of the blame on Marvin if the owner keeps offering him extensions (seeing how the team is performing). What would any of us do if we were in Marvin's shoes - turn him down? LOL

[Sea Ray]

What would any of us do if we were in Marvin's shoes - turn him down? LOL

I don't know...after awhile I'd have enough money in the bank and after a decade or so I'd have had enough of Mike Brown and would be looking to move on.

[Redsfaithful]

I used to think Marvin would be a good front office person, now I don't know. It really depends on how much input he's had into the draft and coaching decisions. Some have been great, some have been horrific, and it's impossible to know who was responsible for what.

[GAC]

I don't know...after awhile I'd have enough money in the bank and after a decade or so I'd have had enough of Mike Brown and would be looking to move on.

But obviously Mike Brown is treating him right, right?

[GAC]

I used to think Marvin would be a good front office person, now I don't know. It really depends on how much input he's had into the draft and coaching decisions. Some have been great, some have been horrific, and it's impossible to know who was responsible for what.

Here's what I find quite interesting..... Mike's Dad (Paul), when he was a coach, carried HUGE amounts of clout. He basically told the owners "this is the way it's going to be or else". Ownership was actually afraid of him to a certain degree because he was an intimidator, but he was also a winner.

Now his son is in power, and it's the other way around.... You do things his way - even though he may not know what he is doing for the most part -this is the way it's going to be done, and if you don't like it then I'll find a coach that does. Coaches under MB, IMO, have input, but there is a line, it's limited. Final word - Mike. Lewis took the job because it was his first head coaching job, and like all coaches he was looking for that shot.

Did Lewis "tire" of Mike Brown after awhile when it came to his "meddling"? Maybe so. But obviously not to a degree where Marvin wanted to quit. As long as Mike wanted him around he was staying.

I really don't know, at season's end - with the issues the Bengals have - if Mike will consider firing Lewis. It may take Lewis getting fed up - if that is the case - and resigning.

But when it comes to looking for the next head coach... will Mike get the right guy, someone who knows what they're doing, what needs to be done to turn it around, someone who is not afraid to stand up to an owner and tell him like it is because they have a winning resume .... or will Mike be looking for another "yes" man whose looking for their first head coaching gig?

[Sea Ray]

I'm not privy to the relationship between Marvin and MB but my impression is that they get along very well...maybe too well. I think they're comfortable with one another and neither wants change. That's not necessarily a good thing for the franchise. I'm hoping Marvin is ready for a break from head coaching

[GAC]

I'm not privy to the relationship between Marvin and MB but my impression is that they get along very well...maybe too well. I think they're comfortable with one another and neither wants change. That's not necessarily a good thing for the franchise. I'm hoping Marvin is ready for a break from head coaching

Stay tuned. We'll find out the answer to that question in the of-season. ;)

I hope something happens though. I'm tired of hearing you Bengal fans B****

You need to become more complacent, indifferent, even numb - like us Brown fans! :mooner:

[Sea Ray]

Stay tuned. We'll find out the answer to that question in the of-season. ;)

I hope something happens though. I'm tired of hearing you Bengal fans B****

You need to become more complacent, indifferent, even numb - like us Brown fans! :mooner:

We've been there, done that. We know all about what you and Jax have been going through. I went through all those stages too. I talked myself into Dave Shula, Bruce Coslet and Dick LeBeau being good coaches that only needed a few more players, a little more time and a little more luck.

[Redsfaithful]

will Mike get the right guy

If you gave me a wager on:

Paul Guenther
Hue Jackson
The field

I would need spectacular odds on the field before I would bet against Guenther or Jackson. It's going to be one of those two.

[Sea Ray]

If you gave me a wager on:

Paul Guenther
Hue Jackson
The field

I would need spectacular odds on the field before I would bet against Guenther or Jackson. It's going to be one of those two.

Jackson has a head coaching job. He'd have to be rid of that first.

[Redsfaithful]

Jackson has a head coaching job. He'd have to be rid of that first.

He's 1-26 in Cleveland, I feel pretty confident he's going to be available.

[Sea Ray]

He's 1-26 in Cleveland, I feel pretty confident he's going to be available.

You think they'll be ready to cut him loose after only two yrs? You might very well be right. It'll be interesting to watch

[GAC]

He's 1-26 in Cleveland, I feel pretty confident he's going to be available.

So you're campaigning for a guy whose record is 1-26?

But for the record, I like Jackson. I don't think he'll be available. This FO - at least they've publicly said so - realize the monumental task at hand in turning the Browns around, and what Jackson inherited. He'll be around for 2018, and one more draft, to see if they're heading in the right direction. After that? Who knows (LOL)

[Sea Ray]

So you're campaigning for a guy whose record is 1-26?

But for the record, I like Jackson. I don't think he'll be available. This FO - at least they've publicly said so - realize the monumental task at hand in turning the Browns around, and what Jackson inherited. He'll be around for 2018, and one more draft, to see if they're heading in the right direction. After that? Who knows (LOL)

I don't think he's campaigning for the Bengals to hire your 1-26 coach. To the contrary, I get the impression that he's lamenting that we won't do better for our next coach given who our owner is

[Bob Sheed]

Meet the new Bengals Head Coach...

Paul...

(wait for it...)


Alexander!

"Are you ready for the jungle to ROAR?!?!?!"

"51st Anniversary!!!!!111"

etc.

"Don't you darrrre miss it."

[RiverRat13]

Vance Joseph will probably be available...

[Redsfaithful]

I don't think he's campaigning for the Bengals to hire your 1-26 coach. To the contrary, I get the impression that he's lamenting that we won't do better for our next coach given who our owner is

Yeah, this is accurate. I'd love to have him back as an offensive coordinator, but I doubt he'd want it.

[Bob Sheed]

We need a repeat of Jackson trading a 1st rounder to us before he is fired.

[RiverRat13]

We need a repeat of Jackson trading a 1st rounder to us before he is fired.

He tried with the McCarron trade (I know, just a 2nd and 3rd, but that's close enough).

[Kingspoint]

Btw, I will post a "Hurray!" when Marvin is fired/resigns (odd that two words spelled the same and sounding the same (resigns/resigns) means exactly the opposite).

[Bob Sheed]

Btw, I will post a "Hurray!" when Marvin is fired/resigns (odd that two words spelled the same and sounding the same (resigns/resigns) means exactly the opposite).

Marvin would need to resign, he'll never be fired.

And being a long time fan, you should know what pool his replacement will come from. Which assistant coach still under contract will Mike Brown promote? Guenther is my guess. How's he strike you as being the right guy to face off against Tomlin and company twice every year?

[WrongVerb]

Btw, I will post a "Hurray!" when Marvin is fired/resigns (odd that two words spelled the same and sounding the same (resigns/resigns) means exactly the opposite).

Resigns means to voluntarily leave a position.
Re-signs (with the hyphen) means to sign a new contract with an organization that held your prior contract.

[Sea Ray]

Resigns means to voluntarily leave a position.
Re-signs (with the hyphen) means to sign a new contract with an organization that held your prior contract.

I'm going to go out on a wild limb and venture to say that KP knows all that. It is still the opposite. If Marvins resigns he's gone. If he re-signs then he's still here. Those are opposites

[Kingspoint]

Resigns means to voluntarily leave a position.
Re-signs (with the hyphen) means to sign a new contract with an organization that held your prior contract.

Yes, I should have placed the hyphen in, but I would have lost my point. Guess it's close.

I'm fine with Guenther. Got to move forward. Anyone would be better.

[Chip R]

Anyone would be better.

Maybe not Ben McAdoo. ;)

[bucksfan2]

Yes, I should have placed the hyphen in, but I woukd have lost my point. Guess it's close.

I'm fine with Guenther. Got to move forward. Anyone would be better.

I like Guenther, I think he has turned into a good DC, probably a guy who if he continues on the current path will get HC interviews.

If Hue gets fired, I would love to see them bring him back again as OC. I don't know if he is HC quality, he has been given chances, although his teams never were that talented.

I do think the coaching staff needs a complete reboot. I think the Bengals have done a good job in getting quality coaches in there, I just think they have let too many mainstays hang on well past their usefulness. If its Guenther who gets the job, I don't know how much staff upheaval there will be.

[Bob Sheed]

I'm fine with Guenther. Got to move forward. Anyone would be better.

I'll remind you that the Bengals 3 previous coaches were Dick LeBeau (12-33), Bruce Coslet (21-39), and Dave Shula (19-52).

Careful what you wish for.

[Kingspoint]

I like Guenther, I think he has turned into a good DC, probably a guy who if he continues on the current path will get HC interviews.

If Hue gets fired, I would love to see them bring him back again as OC. I don't know if he is HC quality, he has been given chances, although his teams never were that talented.

I do think the coaching staff needs a complete reboot. I think the Bengals have done a good job in getting quality coaches in there, I just think they have let too many mainstays hang on well past their usefulness. If its Guenther who gets the job, I don't know how much staff upheaval there will be.

Jackson would undermine Guenther's or anyone else's authority as HC. Only as a HC would I be OK with Jackson back.

[Kingspoint]

I'll remind you that the Bengals 3 previous coaches were Dick LeBeau (12-33), Bruce Coslet (21-39), and Dave Shula (19-52).

Careful what you wish for.

You can't get worse than 0-7 in the playoffs. I'd rather have any of those three when they were hired over Marvin. Guenther would be a huge improvement. Mike Brown is completely different than when they were Head Coaches. Brown would deliberatly sabotage their abilities to win. He stopped doing that long ago, while we have a real scouting department we didn't have then. Brown is also willing to sign C-level Free Agents now where he wouldn't even sign D-level back then. Mike Brown takes more advice now than he did then. The Grim Reaper also has an eye on him and keeping track of his whereabouts, so Brown may be more willing to make a final push at a playoff run.

Moving on from Alexander is necessary, though.

[Redsfaithful]

Guenther could be a good coach. They have drafted pretty well on defense, and the defense has been solid under him.

He's not Mike Zimmer, but that's the way the Bengals roll. They rarely, if ever do the right thing if it's difficult.

[GAC]

You can't get worse than 0-7 in the playoffs.

Sure you can. How about never making the play-offs?


I'd rather have any of those three when they were hired over Marvin.

Which none of those coaches from the "lost decade" ever did. Never even came close enough to sniff losing in the play-offs (LOL). I've made my feelings known on Marvin; but I'm certainly not going to go to the lengths of elevating any of those guys, and use the reasoning they'd have been better coaches then Marvin if Mike Brown hadn't deliberately sabotaged them. That's taking one's condemnation of Lewis a little too far IMO.

[Sea Ray]

You can't get worse than 0-7 in the playoffs. I'd rather have any of those three when they were hired over Marvin. Guenther would be a huge improvement. Mike Brown is completely different than when they were Head Coaches. Brown would deliberatly sabotage their abilities to win. He stopped doing that long ago, while we have a real scouting department we didn't have then. Brown is also willing to sign C-level Free Agents now where he wouldn't even sign D-level back then. Mike Brown takes more advice now than he did then. The Grim Reaper also has an eye on him and keeping track of his whereabouts, so Brown may be more willing to make a final push at a playoff run.

Moving on from Alexander is necessary, though.

Oh, you can get worse than 0-7 in the playoffs. LeBeau, Coslet and Dave Shula were worse. They were 0-0 in the playoffs. That's much worse. But I agree with you, it's (past) time for Marvin to go

[Tony Cloninger]

How is this defense that good when it cannot defend very well on 3rd downs and gives up points at the end of just about every 1st half. Is it Lewis that is also calling the defensive plays and telling Guenther not to blitz? I still want Lewis to go but for a more disciplined minded coach. You don’t always see that with this defense either.

[traderumor]

Guenther could be a good coach. They have drafted pretty well on defense, and the defense has been solid under him.

He's not Mike Zimmer, but that's the way the Bengals roll. They rarely, if ever do the right thing if it's difficult.

But is Guenther responsible for the zone defense scheme that is mind numbingly easy to pick apart and results in a lot of 3rd and long conversions? If so, no thanks. Just clean house, including the roster.

[KoryMac5]

Burfict did a nice job baiting Bell into a 15 yd penalty...

[KoryMac5]

Shazier with one of his head down tackles ends up getting the worst of it, looks to be injured. Big blow for Pitts if he is out.

Looks to be a very serious injury as he has not moved his legs...

[Redhook]

Wow, Shazier might be paralyzed. Hopefully not. It doesn’t look good at all though.

[RiverRat13]

Just an awful injury for Shazier.

[Stray]

Not to jump to any conclusions or anything, but that Shazier injury looks really bad. Looked paralyzed from the waist down. Hope not...

[WVRed]

Refusing to get my hopes up.


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[KoryMac5]

Nice swim move by AJ Green to get wide open...

[RedTeamGo!]

Refusing to get my hopes up.


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Please tell me you are referring to the score and not Shazier’s potentially life-altering injury.

[Redsfaithful]

Updates from Steelers on Twitter are weird and not typical, I don't want to speculate but I think it's bad on Shazier.

Said it was a back injury and then already said no more updates tonight.

[KoryMac5]

Yeah taken straight to the hospital, scary stuff for sure.

[WVRed]

Please tell me you are referring to the score and not Shazier’s potentially life-altering injury.

Score.

Momentum is heavily favoring Cincinnati right now, but this team has such a history of pissing away leads against the Steelers.

The Shazier injury does suck though, as much as I hate the Steelers.

[KoryMac5]

Lots of energy tonight from this D, usually flat in prime time.

[Chip R]

Bengals looking good so far. Shame they haven't played like that the rest of the season.

I find it odd that while Green and Brown are arguably the best two receivers in the league the Steelers keep finding Brown - even though he has a bad toe - but the Bengals can barely get Green involved.

[Stray]

Haven't seen our offense block this well in ages.

[Stray]

Dalton has been really good tonight but he's missed every deep ball out of bounds

[WrongVerb]

Haven't seen our offense block this well in ages.

Which is why Dalton is having such a great game.

I suspect Pittsburgh will change it up in the second half with more stunts and complicated rushes. And I doubt the Bengals will anticipate that. We'll see.

[Stray]

Pretty good half, best we've played in a long time. Pittsburgh will make adjustments and be better in the 2nd half.

[RiverRat13]

Terrible to give up that FG late in the half. Kirkpatrick made the right decision to interfere or Brown may have had a touchdown, but how do you let someone behind you in that situation?

[Chip R]

Kirkpatrick may have saved a TD there. PIT did get a FG out of it but 3 is better than 7.

[RedTeamGo!]

Terrible to give up that FG late in the half. Kirkpatrick made the right decision to interfere or Brown may have had a touchdown, but how do you let someone behind you in that situation?

To be fair, Brown is one of the best WRs to ever play the game of football.

[Sea Ray]

Pretty good half, best we've played in a long time. Pittsburgh will make adjustments and be better in the 2nd half.

The O line play was the best I've seen in a long long time from this team. They're either playing way over their heads or they don't suck any more. I think Andre Smith has made a big difference for this line

[WVRed]

Terrible to give up that FG late in the half. Kirkpatrick made the right decision to interfere or Brown may have had a touchdown, but how do you let someone behind you in that situation?

It’s the difference in being up 17-7 or 17-3. I’ll take it.

Bengals get the ball to start the second half. If they can march it down the field I’ll feel better about it. Still have last years meltdown in my head though.

[CTA513]

Terrible to give up that FG late in the half. Kirkpatrick made the right decision to interfere or Brown may have had a touchdown, but how do you let someone behind you in that situation?

First pass of the possession should have been picked off.
Iloka went for the hit and missed an easy INT.

[RiverRat13]

To be fair, Brown is one of the best WRs to ever play the game of football.

Yes he is. Might be a good reason to double him with a safety so he doesn't get behind you with 11 seconds to go. Re-reading my post it looks like I'm blaming just Kirkpatrick, but I was more questioning the coverage there.

[RiverRat13]

I'm fully expecting the Steelers to win this game.

[Sea Ray]

I'm fully expecting the Steelers to win this game.

Yes, us bengal fans know better than to think otherwise. It's that Charlie Brown/Lucy football thingy.

[dubc47834]

Lol...gave up on the play!!!

[WVRed]

Two hand touch?

They’re beat.


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[Reds Fanatic]

That is a pitiful effort on the sideline from Evans and Jackson


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[Wonderful Monds]

What in the hell was that?

[RiverRat13]

Afraid to get a penalty and they let up.

Roethlisburger got a gift spot on his slide. The ball should be where you start the slide. The line judge had him short, then Ben argued and the line judge put the ball down a full two feet from where he initially walked up to the play.

[Roy Tucker]

I've seen the Bengals do a lot of stupid plays, but that one takes the cake.

[WVRed]

Ugh, TD nullified by penalty.

The Bengals are going to give them the game, not like they need help from the refs.

[Reds Fanatic]

What an awful call. Seriously if you question the Steelers getting all the calls that was awful


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[Wonderful Monds]

Yeah screw this league. That's the phantom BS called against the Bengals in every damn Bengals/Steelers game. Don't care about the NFL anymore.

[RiverRat13]

LOL. To the surprise of absolutely no Bengal fan.

[dubc47834]

It starts!

[RiverRat13]

Impressed they didn't fold after the horrible call. Getting a FG there was huge.

[kaldaniels]

Oh yea, let’s highlight Kenny Andersen’s head almost getting ripped off.

Go NFL!

[RedTeamGo!]

Oh yea, let’s highlight Kenny Andersen’s head almost getting ripped off.

Go NFL!

That was so freaking weird

[SteelSD]

It starts!

Bryant long TD return called back by phantom holding call.

Yup. Rigged!

[dubc47834]

Bryant long TD return called back by phantom holding call.

Yup. Rigged!

My comment was about those post starting before the Bengals could even give the lead up. It was predictable.

I don't think the league rigs these games!

[Stray]

They seem to have somewhat righted things after that sequence to end 1st and start 2nd. Will feel a lot better about things if we can get a TD outta this drive.

[RiverRat13]

They seem to have somewhat righted things after that sequence to end 1st and start 2nd. Will feel a lot better about things if we can get a TD outta this drive.

I think the Bengals are done scoring points. Gonna need the defense make the 20 be enough.

[Stray]

I think the Bengals are done scoring points. Gonna need the defense make the 20 be enough.

you're prolly right lol

[SteelSD]

My comment was about those post starting before the Bengals could even give the lead up. It was predictable.

I don't think the league rigs these games!

Oh, I know. I was agreeing with you in a slightly unusual way. :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Another absolute phantom call


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[Stray]

William Jackson is playing great

[Roy Tucker]

Wow. Very strangely reffed game. Phantom calls abound.

[Stray]

Roethlisburger seems to see how well Jackson is playing too. He keeps throwing at Kirkpatrick.

[RiverRat13]

This is shaping up to be an OT loss for the Bengals.

[Redsfaithful]

Officiating is horrible. Not surprised to see a Steelers fan in here defending it though, it's like clockwork.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bengals offense just continues to disappear in the 2nd half of games


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[RiverRat13]

Bengals offense just continues to disappear in the 2nd half of games


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It's not a good offense. They look competent in the first half because they are able to script things. But in the second half once the defense adjusts, there's just not much there.

[Reds Fanatic]

It's not a good offense. They look competent in the first half because they are able to script things. But in the second half once the defense adjusts, there's just not much there.

Yes it is one of the things that most bothers me in the last several years is this team makes almost no halftime adjustments. It is almost a miracle when they hold on to a lead


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[Stray]

That wasn't roughing. These refs are gonna march em down the field if they have to.

[Wonderful Monds]

Eject his ass

[SteelSD]

Officiating is horrible. Not surprised to see a Steelers fan in here defending it though, it's like clockwork.

Just so ya' know, while you're watching the officials (as usual), there's a football game going on.

[Wonderful Monds]

Just so ya' know, while you're watching the officials (as usual), there's a football game going on.

it's rigged though

[RiverRat13]

Those classy hard-nosed Steelers at it again.

[WrongVerb]

Do the Steelers train their players to lead with the helmet or what?

[Redsfaithful]

Such a dirty football team.

[Stray]

He'll get suspended for that.

[WrongVerb]

He'll get suspended for that.

I'm surprised Burfict won't be fined for it.

[Roy Tucker]

I'm not sure what it takes to get ejected any more. I'd sure as hell kick his sorry butt out.

[Tom Servo]

This is a depressing game.

[Redsfaithful]

Just so ya' know, while you're watching the officials (as usual), there's a football game going on.

You must have the volume down - it's not just Bengals fans.

How you love this dirty team and that rapist QB is beyond me. Since you start in that illogical place it doesn't surprise me you have to twist yourself into contortions every which way going forward.

[RiverRat13]

ESPN forgot when the Steelers broke Huber's jaw.

[RiverRat13]

Here comes the turnover to set up a game winning FG.

[Wonderful Monds]

Well that's the game

[Kingspoint]

My Final Comment:

Mike Brown Sucks!

[RiverRat13]

The Bengals were running the ball well and abandoned it. That was the knock on Lazur in Miami.

[RiverRat13]

One step closer to the end of the Marvin Lewis era.

[Stray]

Gross game. Lot of dirty play and horrible officiating. But no excuses for the offense's inability to NOT adjust after halftime every single week.

[CTA513]

Bengals choke away another game.
Time for Marvin to get another contract extension to keep up this excellence.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals seem to find a way to bad losses.

173 yards worth of penalties.

[WrongVerb]

The Steelers would go 0-16 if they had to play a clean game with neutral referees.

[redhawkfish]

Gross game. Lot of dirty play and horrible officiating. But no excuses for the offense's inability to NOT adjust after halftime every single week.

Crappy game. Almost unwatchable.

[Reds Fanatic]

What a depressing night. I am so ready for Marvin to go

[Stray]

Hope Juju gets a big suspension and fine, he's a rookie so a big fine will hurt. Also hope Shazier isn't as bad as it looks.

But yeah, this is just another step towards the end of the Marvin era. I think he's done a good job at keeping this ship somewhat floating this year, but just tired of the same old crap.

[Redsfaithful]

Gotta be like 7-10 points better than the Steelers to beat them and the refs.

I really have nothing but disgust for the NFL and this product anymore.

- - - Updated - - -


The Steelers would go 0-16 if they had to play a clean game with neutral referees.

Nah, come on that's just good Stiller foootbaaaawl

It's totally normal for a team to have 173 yards in penalties, including a bunch of drive killers and a called back TD.

Weird, would you look at this - they called back that TD on a ridiculous holding call and it ended up costing them 4 points and ... what's this ... the Bengals lost by 3! It's almost like bad officiating matters!

[traderumor]

Not a good hit there. Absolutely justified penalty called. I sure hope Burfict is ok.

- - - Updated - - -



Take the personal attacks to PM, please. I'm watching a football game.

Looks like your baiting to me.


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[CTA513]

Hope Juju gets a big suspension and fine, he's a rookie so a big fine will hurt. Also hope Shazier isn't as bad as it looks.

But yeah, this is just another step towards the end of the Marvin era. I think he's done a good job at keeping this ship somewhat floating this year, but just tired of the same old crap.

a fine is all he'll get.

[SteelSD]

Looks like your baiting to me.

Then you don't actually know what baiting looks like. Have a good night and I hope all the players injured tonight (even Burfict) are ok.

[RiverRat13]

a fine is all he'll get.

Probably will get a game ball.

[Stray]

a fine is all he'll get.

I don't think there's any way he doesn't get suspended. If the NFL is serious about getting crap like that outta the game I almost expect him to get 2 games appealed down to 1. And also now that I think about it his dirty teammates will likely pay whatever fine he gets for taking out Burfict so he better get suspended.

[traderumor]

Gotta be like 7-10 points better than the Steelers to beat them and the refs.

I really have nothing but disgust for the NFL and this product anymore.

- - - Updated - - -



Nah, come on that's just good Stiller foootbaaaawl

It's totally normal for a team to have 173 yards in penalties, including a bunch of drive killers and a called back TD.

Weird, would you look at this - they called back that TD on a ridiculous holding call and it ended up costing them 4 points and ... what's this ... the Bengals lost by 3! It's almost like bad officiating matters!

Tonite made me feel like a wrestling fan that really believes there is no script. I should have listened to my own thought to go to bed after the holding call. The refs probably had to remind Juju that he had gotten off script and was going to mess up the predetermined outcome. I feel dirty with every NFL gameI watch anymore.

[Redsfaithful]

Tonite made me feel like a wrestling fan that really believes there is no script. I should have listened to my own thought to go to bed after the holding call. The refs probably had to remind Juju that he had gotten off script and was going to mess up the predetermined outcome. I feel dirty with every NFL gameI watch anymore.

I used to get excited for NFL season, and that's just gone. Like you say, tonight was almost too blatant. There was an early drive killed with a phantom penalty, the TD called back over nothing, the pass interference with Dre, the facemask penalty on AJ that's never called.

And the rulebook is stupid enough to give anyone that wants it plausible deniability. Because yeah, Gio stretched out the guy's jersey for a fraction of a second before letting go, and AJs hand touched the guy's facemask (and now some idiot will jump in and say SEE THOSE ARE PENALTIES) but of course the vast, vast majority of the time the refs don't call things like that. Like everyone knows, you could call holding on every single play, but they don't because it would be unwatchable.

Why the game is awful:

1. The call on Gio had zero influence on the play
2. The call on AJ had zero influence on the play
3. The call on Dre had zero influence on the play (on the PI call I'm talking about you can't even argue the officials should have let it go, he flat out didn't touch him)

But these things end up literally making the difference in the game. And I'm just scratching the surface with what I remember off the top of my head. Someone should actually sit down and catalog it, but I doubt anyone cares enough.

People point at Mike Brown, Marvin Lewis, and yeah, that's a lot of it. It's a bad team. They played horribly in the second half. There's always lots of buts, as if we shouldn't be allowed to be mad at biased and horrible officiating because the Bengals aren't flawless.

But the league plays clear favorites, and eventually you see it too clearly to really care anymore. A few years ago tonight would have irritated me pretty good, but it was obvious what would happen, and it all went according to script, and I just felt total apathy.

I do feel bad for so many of the Bengals players, and so many players around the league who work really hard on a playing field that isn't at all level.

[RiverRat13]

Really worried about Shazier in that they aren't giving updates. That can't be a good sign.

[Stray]

I agree with you guys about how you just know it's over. The bad drive killer penalty or missed call, whatever, it always happens to us. In the last few years I've lost interest in the NFL and been watching more NBA as a result. I don't feel like we'll ever get a fair shake against Pittsburgh. It is what it is.

[Redsfaithful]

Really worried about Shazier in that they aren't giving updates. That can't be a good sign.

This is part of my apathy too, in fairness. Football is going to be gone in the next 20 years, so it feels weird to be overly invested in something I am stone cold positive is going to go away in it's current form.

I hope Shazier is ok. I've been worried about his health since he came to the NFL, because you can't hit like that and not ruin your life. I don't remember him playing like that with the Buckeyes, but I might have honestly missed it - I wasn't thinking about this stuff at all back then.

[Stray]

ESPN reporting that the bottom half of his body was limp and the hospital are not providing any updates on his status right now. That doesn't sound good at all.

[Chip R]

Oh yea, let’s highlight Kenny Andersen’s head almost getting ripped off.

Go NFL!

Good times. Good times. :(

[WrongVerb]

Tonite made me feel like a wrestling fan that really believes there is no script. I should have listened to my own thought to go to bed after the holding call. The refs probably had to remind Juju that he had gotten off script and was going to mess up the predetermined outcome. I feel dirty with every NFL gameI watch anymore.

I've mentioned this before, but I have a friend who is a professional sports bettor. He won't lay money at all on the NFL, because the refs are so biased in some games.

[WrongVerb]

Good times. Good times. :(

I'm surprised they didn't mention Corey Dillon getting his helmet ripped off by the facemask during a tackle by a Pittsburgh player and not even having a penalty called.

[Chip R]

So, how much is Burfict going to be fined?

[CTA513]

It looks like steeler fans found a new hero in JuJu after his hit on Burfict.


https://twitter.com/TeamJuJu/status/937921774309621766

[CTA513]

Sounds like Antonio Brown was happy about the hit on Burfict and that he'll pay JuJus fine.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/antonio-brown-says-karma-when-smith-schuster-is-asked-about-dirty-hit-on-burfict/



As JuJu Smith-Schuster talked about his block on Vontaze Burfict, Antonio Brown kept yelling ‘KARMA’ in Smith-Schuster’s direction. Said ‘Touchdown Brown’ will pay his fine.
https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN/status/937921383803342848



When asked about Burfict getting hit, Antonio Brown just kept saying “karma.” @TheAthleticPIT
https://twitter.com/MarkKaboly/status/937920465280040960



Antonio Brown on JuJu's block of Burfict, smiling:
"I liked that, I liked that."
https://twitter.com/C_AdamskiTrib/status/937924568764895233




Asked to clarify if his "karma" comments were in regards to Burfict gettin knocked out of the game, ABrown said:
"I aint talking about nobody, just karma is karma. Karma is in life; you do the wrong things, you get the wrong things happen to you. Its not personal between no one."
https://twitter.com/C_AdamskiTrib/status/937925677696905216

[Redsfaithful]

Not a bounty though, and that's a very clean football team, everyone knows it.

[GAC]

These two teams don't like each other one bit (LOL).... but it's getting crazy out of control when they meet. These two teams are out there, IMO, physically trying to hurt each other, take opposing players out.

Intervention is needed, and I think the NFL will step in and levy some hefty fines (maybe suspensions) after what was witnessed last night.

[WVRed]

These two teams don't like each other one bit (LOL).... but it's getting crazy out of control when they meet. These two teams are out there, IMO, physically trying to hurt each other, take opposing players out.

Intervention is needed, and I think the NFL will step in and levy some hefty fines (maybe suspensions) after what was witnessed last night.

I wish it would happen, but it brings in ratings for a league that is desperate enough for it.