Ball at it again.....

[Assembly Hall]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/lavar-ball-plans-to-launch-basketball-league-for-high-school-graduates/

[Redsfaithful]

I wish someone more stable were trying this, because it's a good idea.

[Boston Red]

Kentucky is so screwed.

[dubc47834]

I wish someone more stable were trying this, because it's a good idea.

I have heard this exact same thing said a few times today. Great idea, bad wrong person.

[Revering4Blue]

I wish someone more stable were trying this, because it's a good idea.

Actually, circa '98 or so, such a league was in the works. IIRC, it was to be based in large markets that lacked NBA franchises. It never got off the ground as the chief investor backed out and instead purchased an NBA franchise.

The chief investor that backed out, FWIW: Mark Cuban.

[WVRed]

Kentucky is so screwed.

I hope you are joking.

I don’t see LaVar Ball stealing recruits from John Calipari or Coach K unless it’s a player who can’t make the grades for college or doesn’t want to go to college. The only type of players this would appeal to is the Emmanuel Mudiay’s of the world.

In theory, it’s a great idea. In practice, it would be better if someone else was running it. The NBA changing the age limit will have more of an impact than LaVar Ball trying to stay in the spotlight.

[Slyder]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/lavar-ball-plans-to-launch-basketball-league-for-high-school-graduates/

and another thing I won't watch if you paid me. Why do people give this joker the time of day and an open mic?

[cumberlandreds]

Nobody any good at all is going to go to league run by Lavar Ball.

[WVRed]

Nobody any good at all is going to go to league run by Lavar Ball.

Not even his children. They are staying in Lithuania supposedly.

[medford]

It will only be a few more years, IMHO, that such a league will exist; it will be the G-league, revamped with new draft rules allowing high school kids to be drafted by the NBA, similar to baseball where you go after HS or you go to college for 2 or more seasons. The G-league will take on the development of kids worthy of being drafted or playing at that level but don't want to attend college for whatever reason, it will be a true minor league system. The G-league has been developing more and more into that type of system over the last handful of years, when they eventually alter the drat eligibility rules (and that is coming for sure if you read the tea leaves) that will be the natural extension for kids that aren't good enough to play significant minutes in the NBA at 18 or 19, but good enough to be developed in a minor league system.

I'm sure Lavar will take credit when it finally happens.

[dabvu2498]

Kentucky is so screwed.

They pay better than $10k/month.

[Boston Red]

I wish someone more stable were trying this, because it's a good idea.

I mean, it's not a GOOD idea, because no one wants to watch it. It makes sense for the NBA to do it, as medford mentioned below, because they can consider it an investment in the money-making part of their brand, but as a stand-alone venture it's a dog.

[Assembly Hall]

I thought I read somewhere that the G-league was expanding next year?

[Redsfaithful]

I mean, it's not a GOOD idea, because no one wants to watch it. It makes sense for the NBA to do it, as medford mentioned below, because they can consider it an investment in the money-making part of their brand, but as a stand-alone venture it's a dog.

The summer league is a bigger and bigger deal every year - I think people want more basketball. It doesn't have to do NFL numbers to be a viable television product.

Basketball at this level is seeing some experimentation which is cool.

For example, I watched some of the Basketball Tournament this year because some old OSU players put together a team - it was actually really cool. The grand prize for that is $2 million right now.

https://www.thetournament.com/

That gets awfully interesting if you get the grand prize up into the tens of millions of dollars, and it's an obvious made for tv product. Somebody smart could make it into an Olympics like broadcast with tearjerker player profiles, etc.

So long as you are getting the biggest NBA prospects with this it's interesting and people will watch. I just don't see Ball being the guy able to put it all together. Putting it in existing NBA cities is already a strike against the idea. You'd have a better shot putting it in cities with no team. Something like a league with a division of Louisville - Cincinnati - Columbus - Pittsburgh. Low travel costs, four cities with viable arenas, and four good tv markets that watch sports.

[Boston Red]

Minor league basketball has been tried a million times, and it's never delivered fans. The Basketball Tournament is cool, but you gave away the issue when you said why you watched it: you knew the guys from their time at OSU.

[Redsfaithful]

Minor league basketball has been tried a million times, and it's never delivered fans. The Basketball Tournament is cool, but you gave away the issue when you said why you watched it: you knew the guys from their time at OSU.

That's true. I think if you attach teams to cities you could combat that issue a little bit.

The world is a lot different now. Telling me minor league basketball didn't work in the past where you had way less outlets as potential tv partners doesn't say much.

[dubc47834]

Ice Cubes Big 3 league was pretty popular last year as well. Did well enough it is back for a second year. I know it sold out some pretty big names arenas.

[bucksfan2]

Ice Cubes Big 3 league was pretty popular last year as well. Did well enough it is back for a second year. I know it sold out some pretty big names arenas.

The Big 3 was entertaining because it was guys you knew and watched play for years. Each team had multiple guys you knew well, and had at least one headliner that was a star in his past. The TBT was fun because I was watching the OSU greats from a few years ago.

Minor league basketball will struggle unless there is a substantial investment from the NBA. Because there really isn't a whole lot of draw to watching fringe players play in no name arenas. But more importantly I think you need to invest in good coaching to develop players.

[traderumor]

Minor league basketball has been tried a million times, and it's never delivered fans. The Basketball Tournament is cool, but you gave away the issue when you said why you watched it: you knew the guys from their time at OSU.

There is already minor league basketball with the NCAA. I'd say it has about the same likelihood of success as a minor league football league would.

- - - Updated - - -


That's true. I think if you attach teams to cities you could combat that issue a little bit.

The world is a lot different now. Telling me minor league basketball didn't work in the past where you had way less outlets as potential tv partners doesn't say much.

I would also argue that the NBA is minor league basketball :laugh:

[Cooper]

Seems to me the goal ought to be minor league baseball success. Go in to a town where if you draw 3K you would be doing well. Make the draft kind of regional --each team would draft 5 players from a local college....maybe they would have to have one player on the roster from each DIV 1 school within 50 miles. The G League is triple A and they have more resources -this would probably be more of a double A league. A single A league would be a town with a population of at least 40K and they would also have strong regional ties. Heck, if you kept the prices low --every town that had a high school could have a "town" team --it may be below Rookie ball or even good independent baseball, but if you kept prices low ...say 2 dollars and you stuck it out for 10 years -there would be enough town pride to develop a league that would be connected to a town and it might be 7 layers down. " Tonight at the local high school ...tiny Winchester, Indiana (alumni 4,000) plays Lakota East, Cincinnati, Ohio (alumni 50,000)" -if Winchester wins they get a ton of computer points or move up a league, etc..." Town or high school pride would be a major factor. What's odd to me is that with more media outlets and opportunities --we have less teams and leagues to get behind --i think it's doable -- baseball had a 60 year start on basketball. I do know this --if Winchester beat Richmond in anything.....it would be a big deal:)

[Revering4Blue]

Unless the system is revamped, Minor League Basketball will continue to be a tough sell even with NBA backing compared with Minor League Baseball and Hockey, respectively for the following reasons:

1)Fair or not, the perception exists (and will continue to do so) that if a player isn't currently property of an NBA team or playing overseas -- and this comparison doesn't include one-and-done talent currently in college and/or NBA draftees/high-profile Rookie Free Agent signees -- said player is simply a fringe player.

2)Even though the G-League is moving in this direction, Minor League Basketball remains well behind its Baseball and Hockey counterparts from the standpoint of the number of affiliates with parent teams.

3)College Basketball remains much more popular than its College Baseball and Hockey counterparts, as the latter two are largely viewed as "regional" sports. Therefore -- and traderumor was is spot-on with this -- NCAA Hoops is viewed as the minor league hoops system.

4)Props to bucksfan2 for alluding to this -- and I say this as a resident of a city with a G-League team, albeit a city with NBA history -- even with NBA backing, far too many G-League teams are based in no-name cities with no-name arenas. Therefore, the chances of attracting meaningful exposure Nationwide are greatly diminished.

While mixing such markets with Major Markets seems to work with Minor League baseball and hockey, it has proven time and time again to be an abject failure with Minor League Basketball, and a huge reason why, for example, CBA teams in Major League cities ALWAYS failed. For example, if you live in, say, San Diego (a major market with no NBA team), selling Sioux Fall, Yakima and Rockford as opponents just doesn't have the same ring as San Diego vs. Jacksonville, St.Louis or Buffalo.

Now, the G-League appears to be eventually moving in this direction and in markets the size of LA, Chicago and NYC, the markets are large enough to place a G-League team there, but IMHO, the remainder of G-League franchises should be based in the largest non-NBA markets (something that Redsfaithful suggested). For example:

Cavs -- Columbus
Pacers -- Cincy
76ers -- Pittsburgh
Raptors -- Buffalo

Well, you get the picture..

Doing so may also help to garner more NBA interest in non-NBA Major markets as icing on the cake; not to mention garnering significantly higher TV ratings/marketing opportunities, leading to a higher G League pay scale. Should that occur, rather than toiling in cities that, for the most part, require a Puddle Jumper to reach, the G League would become enough of an appealing option for certain players who would otherwise be forced to play overseas.

[Assembly Hall]

Unless the system is revamped, Minor League Basketball will continue to be a tough sell even with NBA backing compared with Minor League Baseball and Hockey, respectively for the following reasons:

1)Fair or not, the perception exists (and will continue to do so) that if a player isn't currently property of an NBA team or playing overseas -- and this comparison doesn't include one-and-done talent currently in college and/or NBA draftees/high-profile Rookie Free Agent signees -- said player is simply a fringe player.

2)Even though the G-League is moving in this direction, Minor League Basketball remains well behind its Baseball and Hockey counterparts from the standpoint of the number of affiliates with parent teams.

3)College Basketball remains much more popular than its College Baseball and Hockey counterparts, as the latter two are largely viewed as "regional" sports. Therefore -- and traderumor was is spot-on with this -- NCAA Hoops is viewed as the minor league hoops system.

4)Props to bucksfan2 for alluding to this -- and I say this as a resident of a city with a G-League team, albeit a city with NBA history -- even with NBA backing, far too many G-League teams are based in no-name cities with no-name arenas. Therefore, the chances of attracting meaningful exposure Nationwide are greatly diminished.

While mixing such markets with Major Markets seems to work with Minor League baseball and hockey, it has proven time and time again to be an abject failure with Minor League Basketball, and a huge reason why, for example, CBA teams in Major League cities ALWAYS failed. For example, if you live in, say, San Diego (a major market with no NBA team), selling Sioux Fall, Yakima and Rockford as opponents just doesn't have the same ring as San Diego vs. Jacksonville, St.Louis or Buffalo.

Now, the G-League appears to be eventually moving in this direction and in markets the size of LA, Chicago and NYC, the markets are large enough to place a G-League team there, but IMHO, the remainder of G-League franchises should be based in the largest non-NBA markets (something that Redsfaithful suggested). For example:

Cavs -- Columbus
Pacers -- Cincy
76ers -- Pittsburgh
Raptors -- Buffalo

Well, you get the picture..

Doing so may also help to garner more NBA interest in non-NBA Major markets as icing on the cake; not to mention garnering significantly higher TV ratings/marketing opportunities, leading to a higher G League pay scale. Should that occur, rather than toiling in cities that, for the most part, require a Puddle Jumper to reach, the G League would become enough of an appealing option for certain players who would otherwise be forced to play overseas.

Great post, but I got a question......Do you know Ft. Wayne's attendance figures for home games?

[Redsfaithful]

the G League would become enough of an appealing option for certain players who would otherwise be forced to play overseas.

This is a big wild card that I think gets ignored. How many guys might be willing to come home and play in a tier 2 league if the pay was competitive?

I am going to go Buckeyes because I am more familiar with them, but look at these guys playing overseas:

Jon Diebler
Daequan Cook
Aaron Craft
David Lighty
Marc Loving
Byron (BJ) Mullens
Evan Ravenel
Shannon Scott
Jared Sullinger
Deshaun Thomas
Trevor Thompson
Amir Williams

I am not saying that's an all star team or making any commentary here, I'm just saying a league where you put a team with 4-5 of those guys in Columbus plus some 18 year old draft prospects, and they play other big college cities ... would that not be a good tv product? I know UC, Louisville, and Kentucky could all put together fun teams of guys who still play for a living but not in the NBA (maybe not Kentucky since all their guys stick in the NBA lol).

I think it would be. But I know some of these guys get paid really well overseas, so that might kill the idea.

The exciting thing for me, would be if you moved to a soccer model, where you might have a regular season, but then your local team also play events like The Basketball Tournament. And maybe even get some sort of Champion's League going for basketball. Yeah, the NBA champ would dominate, but so what? It would be a lot of fun, and basketball is world wide and could support it.

[Revering4Blue]

Great post, but I got a question......Do you know Ft. Wayne's attendance figures for home games?


Through their first eight home games, the Mad Ants' average announced attendance is 2,808, the fifth highest in the 26-team G League, and according to records obtained from the Coliseum, the number of people actually attending Mad Ants game was 1,658 per night.

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/professional/madants/20171210/ants-staying-coliseum-optimistic

[Assembly Hall]

http://www.journalgazette.net/sports/professional/madants/20171210/ants-staying-coliseum-optimistic

Thank you and to ask another question.....what is the attendance for Komets games?

[Revering4Blue]

Thank you and to ask another question.....what is the attendance for Komets games?

7526 this season.

But as we know, Minor League Hockey is FAR more popular than Minor League Basketball, as NCAA Hockey isn't nearly as popular as NCAA FB or NCAA hoops.

[Assembly Hall]

7526 this season.

But as we know, Minor League Hockey is FAR more popular than Minor League Basketball, as NCAA Hockey isn't nearly as popular as NCAA FB or NCAA hoops.

That number is the average attendance per game?

[Revering4Blue]

That number is the average attendance per game?

Yes.

http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=ECHL2004&sid=2018

[Cooper]

Minor league hockey has had much longer to establish itself than minor league basketball -i think it takes 40 years to really establish a fan base. How do i know that --pure guess and i think Bill James said 50 years in one of his books i read.

You know -- a good place to start and see how long it takes for something to get established is college basketball. What if we took a team in top 100, 200, and 300 to see how long it took them to get to 3,000 fans (i was going to use 5K but i wasn't sure i could find a 300 level team that hit 5K in attendance). Let's try to use teams close to 100 level the last 5-10 years using sagarin as the model. Try to pick a team that's been near the levels given for last 5-10 years --right now Connecticut is 92...don't pick them -they are better than that and they have been better than that over last 5 -10 years. How about Nebraska? They seem like a 100 level sagarin team --how long did it take them to get to 3000 fans ? 200 level - Fairfield? i think they played Dayton in the NIT in the late 70's --how long it take them to get to 3000 fans? 300 level-Howard -i tried to pick a team that's been around for a while- has Howard ever got to 3000 fans before? We want to know when they started their program and how many years it took them to get there. Help me if you can --i may try to start a minor league basketball league tomorrow. I take that back --after xmas would be better timing

[Assembly Hall]

Minor league hockey has had much longer to establish itself than minor league basketball -i think it takes 40 years to really establish a fan base. How do i know that --pure guess and i think Bill James said 50 years in one of his books i read.

I asked my Dad about the Fort Wayne Komets and they have been around since he was in high school. He graduated in 1958.

[Revering4Blue]

I asked my Dad about the Fort Wayne Komets and they have been around since he was in high school. He graduated in 1958.

That's true.

FWIW, my Uncle was one of the Komets co-founders/owners.

[Assembly Hall]

That's true.

FWIW, my Uncle was one of the Komets co-founders/owners.

That is pretty cool. Did you get free tickets??????

[Revering4Blue]

That is pretty cool. Did you get free tickets??????

He passed away when I was almost 13, but I used to go to games with him all the time (sat right by the Komets bench) and met the players and coaches.

In fact, I filled the void of an additional family member taking an active interest, as my Aunt and cousins weren't particularly interested in hockey (if not sports altogether) at the time. Within two years of my Uncle Ray's death, my Aunt sold her ownership share of the team and that was it.

Special memories that will last forever.

[bucksfan2]

This is a big wild card that I think gets ignored. How many guys might be willing to come home and play in a tier 2 league if the pay was competitive?

I am going to go Buckeyes because I am more familiar with them, but look at these guys playing overseas:

Jon Diebler
Daequan Cook
Aaron Craft
David Lighty
Marc Loving
Byron (BJ) Mullens
Evan Ravenel
Shannon Scott
Jared Sullinger
Deshaun Thomas
Trevor Thompson
Amir Williams

I am not saying that's an all star team or making any commentary here, I'm just saying a league where you put a team with 4-5 of those guys in Columbus plus some 18 year old draft prospects, and they play other big college cities ... would that not be a good tv product? I know UC, Louisville, and Kentucky could all put together fun teams of guys who still play for a living but not in the NBA (maybe not Kentucky since all their guys stick in the NBA lol).

I think it would be. But I know some of these guys get paid really well overseas, so that might kill the idea.

The exciting thing for me, would be if you moved to a soccer model, where you might have a regular season, but then your local team also play events like The Basketball Tournament. And maybe even get some sort of Champion's League going for basketball. Yeah, the NBA champ would dominate, but so what? It would be a lot of fun, and basketball is world wide and could support it.

The big question here, is would you be willing to pay overseas salaries to these guys? Would you be willing to pay Jared Sullinger $1.4M? Would you be willing to pay bench players a couple hundred thousand? I think the biggest two things are the financial incentive to play and paying for good coaching?

As for the arena's, I know the Canton Charge play in the Canton Civic Center which is a dump. But I am sure the distance from the Cavs as well as the price is right. The guys you mentioned above, would someone be willing to pay to play at Nationwide Arena? Would they be willing to pay to play at US Bank in Cincy?

Other stuff that would be involved would be per diem, hotel and travel expenses. I don't think bus trips will work from these guys coming from Europe.

[Assembly Hall]

The big question here, is would you be willing to pay overseas salaries to these guys? Would you be willing to pay Jared Sullinger $1.4M? Would you be willing to pay bench players a couple hundred thousand? I think the biggest two things are the financial incentive to play and paying for good coaching?

As for the arena's, I know the Canton Charge play in the Canton Civic Center which is a dump. But I am sure the distance from the Cavs as well as the price is right. The guys you mentioned above, would someone be willing to pay to play at Nationwide Arena? Would they be willing to pay to play at US Bank in Cincy?

Other stuff that would be involved would be per diem, hotel and travel expenses. I don't think bus trips will work from these guys coming from Europe.

All valid points. But I am sure Ball has the answer to all of them!!!!

[Slyder]

LiAngelo declares for the draft. What’s the odds of everyone calling the bluff and ignoring an also ran son of the loud one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chip R]

LiAngelo declares for the draft. What’s the odds of everyone calling the bluff and ignoring an also ran son of the loud one?


Didn't Pops say he was only going to play for the Lakers? If so, I don't like his chances.

I do have to give those kids and Pops credit where it's due. They have lasted in Lithuania much longer than I thought they would.

[Assembly Hall]

Didn't Pops say he was only going to play for the Lakers? If so, I don't like his chances.

I do have to give those kids and Pops credit where it's due. They have lasted in Lithuania much longer than I thought they would.

I am sure both of the younger ones will end up with the Lakers.....they will see the court all the time, as well "ball boys". Getting the players drinks and doing errands. Of course they will have their fancy sneakers on while they do their tasks.

[dubc47834]

Didn't Pops say he was only going to play for the Lakers? If so, I don't like his chances.

I do have to give those kids and Pops credit where it's due. They have lasted in Lithuania much longer than I thought they would.

They have lasted because the competition is terrible there. They are sometimes playing kids that are years younger than they are. Once the kid declared for the draft yesterday he proceeded to score 72 points against kids much younger than him. I do feel bad for these kids, their dad is an over obnoxious blow hard who only is thinking about money, not his kids well being!

[Chip R]

They have lasted because the competition is terrible there. They are sometimes playing kids that are years younger than they are. Once the kid declared for the draft yesterday he proceeded to score 72 points against kids much younger than him. I do feel bad for these kids, their dad is an over obnoxious blow hard who only is thinking about money, not his kids well being!

Still, it's in the middle of nowhere where not a lot of people speak English. I thought they would be out of there as soon as they could and LaVar would be ginning up excuses why they left but they have decided to stick it out so good for them. I feel they will be in for a rude awakening when they get back to the States - especially the younger one.

[Chip R]

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

https://sports.yahoo.com/lavar-ball-predictably-pulls-sons-lamelo-liangelo-lithuania-coaching-dispute-182822581.html

[Assembly Hall]

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

https://sports.yahoo.com/lavar-ball-predictably-pulls-sons-lamelo-liangelo-lithuania-coaching-dispute-182822581.html

All good things must come to an end!!!!!!! LOL

[Chip R]

LaVar has been accused of embezzling over $2.5M by his former partner.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lavar-ball-sued-big-baller-brand-cofounder-alan-foster-embezzlement-lonzo-ball-050943794.html

[Assembly Hall]

LaVar has been accused of embezzling over $2.5M by his former partner.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lavar-ball-sued-big-baller-brand-cofounder-alan-foster-embezzlement-lonzo-ball-050943794.html

In my best Gomer Pyle voice..."Surprise, surprise, surprise." All I got.