8/8/2018 Redlegs @ Metropolitans

[WrongVerb]

Peraza 6
Ervin 7
Gennett 4
Suarez 5
Williams 9
Casali 2
Dixon 3
Stephenson 1
Hamilton 8

Free Dilson!

[texasdave]

It is also the MLB.COM 'Free Game of the Day'. Starts at 12:10 EDT.

[bleedsred]

With Votto out, why not put Scooter at first and play Wilson at second?

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Dilson

[bleedsred]

I just looked it up....but Scooter has never played first? Is that correct?

[Rolando]

I just looked it up....but Scooter has never played first? Is that correct?

Then put Dilson at 1b

[Ironman92]

Williams getting the pt over Dilson

[cumberlandreds]

Then put Dilson at 1b

Has he ever played 1B in the minors? In 39 games in MLB he has only played 2B.

[Griffey012]

#FreeDilson

[cumberlandreds]

Come on guys it's Deeeeeeeealson. :)

[mhs95_06]

Peraza 6
Ervin 7
Gennett 4
Suarez 5
Williams 9
Casali 2
Dixon 3
Stephenson 1
Hamilton 8

Free Dilson!

Saving Dilson's OF debut for the most familiar LF they can have at GABP?

[PuffyPig]

Peraza 6
Ervin 7
Gennett 4
Suarez 5
Williams 9
Casali 2
Dixon 3
Stephenson 1
Hamilton 8

Free Dilson!

Missing Votto, Winkler, Schebler, Duvall and Barnhart from first half lineup. That's a lot of offense gone.

[BCubb2003]

Come on guys it's Deeeeeeeealson. :)

Hah.The first time Dilson says his name on the video, it’s definitely a short i. The second time, there’s just a hint of a Kentucky-like lilt; Dih-ul son. Definitely not a long e.

[cumberlandreds]

Peraza bounces out to get this mega matchup started.

[RedlegsFanatic]

Stephenson has been good at Louisville lately, and pitched well to finish the season in the bigs last year.
But I remember when Stephenson was supposed to be the next Jacob Degrom before Degrom was Degrom.
I'd love for a light bulb to go off and Stephenson be a top of rotation starter in 2019.

[cumberlandreds]

Ervin singles after a good AB.

[cumberlandreds]

Scooter singles, 1st and third. Better get DeGrom now or may never get him.

[mhs95_06]

Scooter with a classic "hit it where they ain't".

[cumberlandreds]

Suarez K's

[mhs95_06]

Suarez Ks on a wicked 89 mph back door change-up!

[cumberlandreds]

Scooter thrown out stealing. Dumb dumb dumb................

[mhs95_06]

Scooter couldn't reverse his course quick enough to complete the designed play. Doesn't scoot like he used to!

[PuffyPig]

Scooter thrown out stealing. Dumb dumb dumb................

It was attempt at trying to score from third, it was not a straight steal.

Now it may have been dumb, but I don't think they liked William's chances of driving in a run. I'm not sure I disagree. It looks like if Gennett was able to avoid that tag that Ervin would have scored.

[mhs95_06]

Scooter thrown out stealing. Dumb dumb dumb................

I thought it was a good play call, Scooter just went a little too deep and was caught off guard by the tailing throw giving the SS momentum to quickly tag Scooter.

[BCubb2003]

SCOOTBLAN?

[cumberlandreds]

It was attempt at trying to score from third, it was not a straight steal.

Now it may have been dumb, but I don't think they liked William's chances of driving in a run. I'm not sure I disagree. It looks like if Gennett was able to avoid that tag that Ervin would have scored.

Yea Marty wasn't the best at describing that play. Either way its dumb. That doesn't work much at the MLB level. High school level,yes but not at the highest level.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Setting walks o/u at 3.5

Go...


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[Chip R]

It was attempt at trying to score from third, it was not a straight steal.

Now it may have been dumb, but I don't think they liked William's chances of driving in a run. I'm not sure I disagree. It looks like if Gennett was able to avoid that tag that Ervin would have scored.

I get that. But if you are going to evaluate Williams's abilities at the plate you should try to give him an opportunity to hit and not run some kind of college trick play that - if successful - only gets one run home and you're out of the inning. So no runs scored and you're still out of the inning.

[cumberlandreds]

Mets out in order. The Cowboy said RS looks more confident than last year. Lets hope so.

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Setting walks o/u at 3.5

Go...


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I will be optimistic and say under.

[CaiGuy]

Mets out in order. The Cowboy said RS looks more confident than last year. Lets hope so.

He looks like a different guy to me. Went right after guys in first inning. Looked like he felt in control.

[mhs95_06]

Yea Marty wasn't the best at describing that play. Either way its dumb. That doesn't work much at the MLB level. High school level,yes but not at the highest level.

One step less toward 2nd and it would have worked masterfully. Riggleman is trying to win games and steal a cheap run to get on the board first!

[cumberlandreds]

Williams walks to start the 2nd.

[PuffyPig]

I get that. But if you are going to evaluate Williams's abilities at the plate you should try to give him an opportunity to hit and not run some kind of college trick play that - if successful - only gets one run home and you're out of the inning. So no runs scored and you're still out of the inning.

The Reds have had all year to judge William's hitting ability. One run would have been huge there. I came very close to working actually.

[cumberlandreds]

Casali K's

[Chip R]

One step less toward 2nd and it would have worked masterfully. Riggleman is trying to win games and steal a cheap run to get on the board first!

And giving up outs.

[cumberlandreds]

Dixon flies out.

[Chip R]

The Reds have had all year to judge William's hitting ability. One run would have been huge there. I came very close to working actually.

How do you figure that? He's only been up about 2 weeks.

[cumberlandreds]

RS K's to end the inning.

[PuffyPig]

How do you figure that? He's only been up about 2 weeks.

I'm guessing they are allowed to watch him on their minor league team.

There is a direct correlation between how a player hits in the minors and hits in the majors. Williams' is not a complete mystery to the Reds.

And funny, even though the Reds ran themselves out of the inning, Williams still batted next.

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The Reds are at least running up his pitch count.

38 after 2 innings.

[Chip R]

I'm guessing they are allowed to watch him on their minor league team.

There is a direct correlation between how a player hits in the minors and hits in the majors. Williams' is not a complete mystery to the Reds.

And funny, even though the Reds ran themselves out of the inning, Williams still batted next.

I get it. Hitting against major and minor league pitching is the same. Doesn't seem like a vote of confidence in Williams to me if you don't even trust him to try to drive a run in from 3rd.

[cumberlandreds]

Conforto walks

[mhs95_06]

And giving up outs.

You've got 27 of them, seems like a good deal to me with 2 outs and a pitcher with overpowering stuff on the mound and only one runner in scoring position.

[cumberlandreds]

Bautista flies out.

[PuffyPig]

I get it. Hitting against major and minor league pitching is the same. Doesn't seem like a vote of confidence in Williams to me if you don't even trust him to try to drive a run in from 3rd.

I didn't say it was the same. I said there was a correlation. Big difference.

The odds are against any hitter driving in a run with 2 outs.

[cumberlandreds]

Nimmo K's

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Jackson doubles in a run down the LF corner.

[BluegrassRedleg]

Walk haunts and another fubar relay throw by Ervin.


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[Ironman92]

I guess I don’t mind the call but has Scooter ever do e that play? Maybe in high school but he was probably a stud 3 hitter.

[mhs95_06]

I thought Ervin's poor outfield and throwing play had been corrected?

[Ironman92]

Ervin holy hell. He threw a ball that got by 3 cutoff guys...not sure I’ve ever seen that

This game is already silly

[Chip R]

I didn't say it was the same. I said there was a correlation. Big difference.

The odds are against any hitter driving in a run with 2 outs.

The odds are against any hitter getting a hit since if they do it 30% if the time they are pretty good at it. But this isn't Game 7 of the World Series. Let the kid hit. It's classic overmanaging.

[cumberlandreds]

MEZ IIB then a wild pitch. This isn't going well.....

[CaiGuy]

He looks like a different guy to me. Went right after guys in first inning. Looked like he felt in control.

That was the first inning.

Looks more familiar all of the sudden. That double has him rattled/pitching scared.

[PuffyPig]

I guess I don’t mind the call but has Scooter ever do e that play? Maybe in high school but he was probably a stud 3 hitter.

It's not a hard play for the runner going to 2nd. Steal 2nd and stop about two thirds of the way down. The toughest part is on the runner at third. He needs to time his break art the right time and I think Ervin did that. Scooter just went way too far.

[cumberlandreds]

Degrom K's to end the 2nd inning. 1-0 Mets

[ochoa30]

Ervin has the yips or something with these throws. They are comically bad.

[Ironman92]

It's not a hard play for the runner going to 2nd. Steal 2nd and stop about two thirds of the way down. The toughest part is on the runner at third. He needs to time his break art the right time and I think Ervin did that. Scooter just went way too far.

I know the play well

[Coopdaddy67]

I thought he was dead at the plate if Ervin hits the cutoff man.

[Rolando]

I like Ervins offense but his defense is really bad hopefully it improves a lot.

[RedlegsFanatic]

Rob has been good at Louisville, but same 'ol same 'ol here in the Bigs.
Lead off walk leads to a run.

[Rojo Rijo]

So Conforto looks at 6 pitches and walks and Jackson jumps on a first pitch fastball. Besides that (and the ball in the dirt to Mes) things seem to be going ok?

[Chip R]

I like Ervins offense but his defense is really bad hopefully it improves a lot.

And people are talking about him being the center fielder? SMH.

[RedlegsFanatic]

Time for a little BILLY BALL!

[PuffyPig]

The odds are against any hitter getting a hit since if they do it 30% if the time they are pretty good at it. But this isn't Game 7 of the World Series. Let the kid hit. It's classic overmanaging.

Are you suggesting that this would have been the correct play if it was the 7th game of the world series, implying that in an important situation, it actually increased the chances of scoring?

Because then the only argument is whether you wanted to score a run or the chance to see Williams in some random AB with a runner on third.

[Rojo Rijo]

Rob has been good at Louisville, but same 'ol same 'ol here in the Bigs.
Lead off walk leads to a run.

Big mistake on the leadoff walk was throwing a 3-2 ball to a guy who hasn't taken the bat off of his shoulder once in the first 5 pitches.

[RedlegsFanatic]

So who is the starting 2B on your 2019 Central Division Champion Cincinnati Reds?

Dilson?
Peraza?
Scooter?
Ervin??????

[Rojo Rijo]

So who is the starting 2B on your 2019 Central Division Champion Cincinnati Reds?

Dilson?
Peraza?
Scooter?
Ervin??????

Senzel

[Coopdaddy67]

Bunting is stupid.

[mhs95_06]

Peraza, do no not bunt, just hit your normal ball to RF!

[BluegrassRedleg]

Riggleman continues to give away outs with Billy F. Hamilton on base ready to grab a free bag any time he wishes.


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[CaiGuy]

Almost burned 2 outs with that bunt.

[cumberlandreds]

Bunting is stupid.

I like it.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTw6y-ZGTCSn0B3PGH6iaVqVxT8KsEEAMoaqpJPC2D2wn-qvZxULA

[Rolando]

Riggleman is a bad manager his strategy is awful.

[Coopdaddy67]

To add, there's nothing dumber than bunting with zero outs and Billy Hamilton on 2B. He's scoring on a single and can get to third in a number of ways.

Giving up an out with deGrom on the mound makes me want to slam my head against the wall.

[Rojo Rijo]

Bailed out DeGrom again. First with the steal attempt, now with the bunt.

Just let them boys hit.

[RedlegsFanatic]

I don't miss Devin Mesoraco, but I sure do miss the 2014 version of Mes.
Classic "what coulda been" without the injury bug case.

[BluegrassRedleg]

DeGrom’s pace is bringing out my inner Thom.


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[RedlegsFanatic]

Riggleman is a bad manager his strategy is awful.

TRUE.
But I'll take Riggleman any day of the week over Bryan Price and 1,000 times on Sunday.

[mhs95_06]

Riggleman continues to give away outs with Billy F. Hamilton on base ready to grab a free bag any time he wishes.



I think Billy is a long way from "any time he wishes"! But I also think him trying to steal is a much better probability for success than bunting, even with your best bunter!

[RedlegsFanatic]

I just wish the Reds would offer Joe Girardi what ever it takes to get him in a Cincinnati uniform.
And if he won't come, talk Barry Larkin into managing.
Or bring back the great Dusty Baker.

[cumberlandreds]

Scooter K's to end the inning. The only good thing is that DeGrom is over 60 pitches.

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I just wish the Reds would offer Joe Girardi what ever it takes to get him in a Cincinnati uniform.
And if he won't come, talk Barry Larkin into managing.
Or bring back the great Dusty Baker.

A big NO to Larkin and been there and done that with Baker. He would never come back here anyway.

[RedlegsFanatic]

Why are the Cubs not the "loveable losers" these days?

1. Lucky/Great Drafting.
2. Signing Rizzo to the early, very club friendly long term deal.
3. Having the $ to sign big name free agents.
4. But most importantly....hiring Maddon.

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Scooter K's to end the inning. The only good thing is that DeGrom is over 60 pitches.

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A big NO to Larkin and been there and done that with Baker. He would never come back here anyway.

Why a big NO to Larkin? I think he would be the ultimate Player's manager.
Dusty is nothing but a WINNER. I would absolutely love to have him back.
Winning in the Playoffs has a lot to do with luck. You gotta get there first. And Dusty knows how to get there.

[cumberlandreds]

Rosario singles

[CaiGuy]

Why a big NO to Larkin? I think he would be the ultimate Player's manager.

If you don't like Riggleman's "Old School" bunt-happy style, you are not going to like Larkin. At least based on his interviews, ect.

[cumberlandreds]

Why are the Cubs not the "loveable losers" these days?

1. Lucky/Great Drafting.
2. Signing Rizzo to the early, very club friendly long term deal.
3. Having the $ to sign big name free agents.
4. But most importantly....hiring Maddon.

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Why a big NO to Larkin? I think he would be the ultimate Player's manager.

No experience at all in managing and great players rarely good managers. Also being the ultimate players manager may not be the best thing for a young team.

[WrongVerb]

Reds Media Relations
@RedsPR

That was Billy Hamilton's 270th career stolen base, tying Reds Hall of Famer Eric Davis for fifth on the franchise's all-time list. Bob Bescher is fourth with 320 stolen bases, Joe Morgan the all-time leader with 406.
5:10pm · 8 Aug 2018

[Kc61]

When Stephenson was up earlier, his fastball graded out poorly. Wasn’t effective.

I notice he is now using his breaking pitches much more often.

[cumberlandreds]

Hamilton makes a sliding catch to save RS's bacon for the moment.

[RedlegsFanatic]

If Billy doesn't finally win his gold glove this year there is some sort of conspiracy going on.

[Kc61]

If Billy doesn't finally win his gold glove this year there is some sort of conspiracy going on.

He’s playing for a losing team and he doesn’t hit. That’s probably why.

It’s preposterous, the guy is one of the greatest defensive CFers I’ve seen. It’s largely speed, but so what, he’s fantastic out there.

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Great K by Stephenson using his change up.

[cumberlandreds]

Conforto K's to end the inning. 1-0 Mets after three

[Tony Cloninger]

It is moronic. Maroonish if you will to bunt Peraza especially after BH stole 2nd. The only real weapon Hamilton has and Riggleman has nutured him. That and being adverse to starting Dilson is starting to grind my gears.

I would be asking why. Why. Why. Why the F why are you playing small ball almost every inning with situations like that if I was Williams. I mean. Do you want a job here moving forward.

[Kc61]

Goal this game is to get DeGrom out after 6 innings. His pitch count is at 55, keep making him throw pitches.

[RedlegsFanatic]

Senzel

Not Suarez at SS and Senzel at 3B?

[Kc61]

It is moronic. Maroonish if you will to bunt Peraza especially after BH stole 2nd. The only real weapon Hamilton has and Riggleman has nutured him. That and being adverse to starting Dilson is starting to grind my gears.

I would be asking why. Why. Why. Why the F why are you playing small ball almost every inning with situations like that if I was Williams. I mean. Do you want a job here moving forward.

I think this game Riggleman is trying to stay even against DeGrom. Then try to win the bullpen battle. He doesn’t see big innings against this pitcher.

So he’s running, bunting, trying to move runners over to get a run here, a run there.

[RedlegsFanatic]

I'm definitely liking the pop off Mason's bat

[Kc61]

I'm definitely liking the pop off Mason's bat

Wouldn’t get too excited, look at his minor league numbers. Nice player, but . . . .

[Rojo Rijo]

Not Suarez at SS and Senzel at 3B?

Geno isn't playing SS. Plus, Peraza is having a pretty solid age 24 season.

[cumberlandreds]

Reds out in order in the 4th.

[Kc61]

DeGrom now at 73 pitches, my earlier count was incorrect. After four innings.

[Tony Cloninger]

I think this game Riggleman is trying to stay even against DeGrom. Then try to win the bullpen battle. He doesn’t see big innings against this pitcher.

So he’s running, bunting, trying to move runners over to get a run here, a run there.

I would agree with you if he was not using 1900-1919 strategy in a lot of games with anyone not named Votto. Suarez or Scooter.

[Flair4Horsemen]

Not Suarez at SS and Senzel at 3B?

It ain't gonna happen.

[Rolando]

Wouldn’t get too excited, look at his minor league numbers. Nice player, but . . . .

Guys get better and he was a top prospect so you never know.

[Rojo Rijo]

Wheels about to come off.

sigh.................

[cumberlandreds]

Bautista walks and Nimmo doubles. RS in a whole lot of trouble now.

[Ironman92]

TRUE.
But I'll take Riggleman any day of the week over Bryan Price and 1,000 times on Sunday.

Yeah....if a kid is bringing home D’s for 3rd-5th grade and then in 6th grade he’s getting C+....parents are happy

[RedlegsFanatic]

Think of how many Reds fans that live in NY had plans for a month to be at today's game to see their favorite player Joey Votto for the 1st time today?
Only to be robbed of that experience because Ryan Madson hit Votto intentionally in the knee.
That makes me so mad Votto is missing time because of that nonsense.

[Ironman92]

Think of how many Reds fans that live in NY had plans for a month to be at today's game to see their favorite player Joey Votto for the 1st time today?
Only to be robbed of that experience because Ryan Madson hit Votto intentionally in the knee.
That makes me so mad Votto is missing time because of that nonsense.

Ryan Madsin sucks

[Rolando]

Yeah....if a kid is bringing home D’s for 3rd-5th grade and then in 6th grade he’s getting C+....parents are happy

How did you see my report cards? ;)

[Rojo Rijo]

Jackson down swinging on a nice slider

Mes with another IBB to get Degrom up

[cumberlandreds]

Jackson K's on six straight change ups. Reds scared of their former catcher as he gets another IBB.

[Tom Servo]

IBB to load up the bases with a pitcher who struggles to throw strikes seems like Bryan Price logic.

[ochoa30]

IBB to load up the bases with a pitcher who struggles to throw strikes seems like Bryan Price logic.

Not to mention there is 1 out. Makes 0 sense.

[cumberlandreds]

RS walks the pitcher. So much for an improved RS. 2-0 Mets

[Tom Servo]

Should have just let him pitch to Mesoraco. Pretty stupid managing.

[ochoa30]

Maybe I'm blind but 2 of those pitches looked like strikes. Also, what happened to the fastball?

[Tony Cloninger]

And this is why Stephenson cannot move forward. Cannot be trusted to do much other than just give you glimpses of what
He can do. But not really doing it.

[CaiGuy]

RS walks the pitcher. So much for an improved RS. 2-0 Mets

Bold strategy.

[westofyou]

Should have just let him pitch to Mesoraco. Pretty stupid managing.

But the fundamentals we are seeing now!!!

[HokieRed]

it's going to require patience, people. Riggleman, on the other hand, needs to go. One good thing anyway is that nearly every game he makes it clearer that he shouldn't be the next mgr.

[Rojo Rijo]

RS walks the pitcher. So much for an improved RS. 2-0 Mets

The walk is on RS but assisted by more mismanagement. No business walking Mes in that situation.

[Rolando]

Should have just let him pitch to Mesoraco. Pretty stupid managing.

I agree with you but wow that was pitiful pitching to degrom

[HokieRed]

Maybe I'm blind but 2 of those pitches looked like strikes. Also, what happened to the fastball?

Gameday had two of the pitches right on the edge.

[Kc61]

Guys get better and he was a top prospect so you never know.

Ok, but Mason has been in the minors since 2010, he’s a veteran minor leaguer, he’s lifetime a .703 OPS guy, I don’t see it.

But I hope you’re right, Reds need all the talent they can get.

[Tony Cloninger]

Yea let’s blame the manager for a pitcher not being able to throw strikes to a pitcher.
RZ logic.
And I already made it clear Riggleman is annoying me already but how is this his fault?

[Coopdaddy67]

And this is why Stephenson cannot move forward. Cannot be trusted to do much other than just give you glimpses of what
He can do. But not really doing it.

It's one game. He should be getting a start every 5th day for the rest of the season. They need to see what he has going into next season and he's not going to prove it in AAA.

[cumberlandreds]

The walk is on RS but assisted by more mismanagement. No business walking Mes in that situation.

Maybe so but dumb pitching too. Four straight change ups to a pitcher. He just doesn't get it.

[Rolando]

Ok, but Mason has been in the minors since 2010, he’s a veteran minor leaguer, he’s lifetime a .703 OPS guy, I don’t see it.

But I hope you’re right, Reds need all the talent they can get.
Well Scooter wss a run of the mill minor leaguer too

[Rojo Rijo]

Yea let’s blame the manager for a pitcher not being able to throw strikes to a pitcher.
RZ logic.
And I already made it clear Riggleman is annoying me already but how is this his fault?


Here is a genius idea, with runners on 2nd and 3rd lets just go ahead and load them up for a pitcher who struggles with walks. What could possibly go wrong?

[Tom Servo]

I agree with you but wow that was pitiful pitching to degrom
Of course he needs to do better, but the manager needs to put the player in a better position to succeed. The first intentional walk was dumb too, just let the kid pitch.

[ochoa30]

Yea let’s blame the manager for a pitcher not being able to throw strikes to a pitcher.
RZ logic.
And I already made it clear Riggleman is annoying me already but how is this his fault?

Because he walked Mesoraco to load the bases knowing RS has trouble throwing strikes. Devin isn't any good and it costs the team 2 runs so far. Obviously RS needs to throw strikes but it was ill advised at best.

[CaiGuy]

Yea let’s blame the manager for a pitcher not being able to throw strikes to a pitcher.
RZ logic.
And I already made it clear Riggleman is annoying me already but how is this his fault?

It can be both.

Bad move by Riggleman, bad pitching by RS.

Bad results for the Reds.

[Flair4Horsemen]

Yea let’s blame the manager for a pitcher not being able to throw strikes to a pitcher.
RZ logic.
And I already made it clear Riggleman is annoying me already but how is this his fault?

Who is calling the game? If it's the catcher, why is he calling for four straight breaking balls to the pitcher? If it's Riggleman, same question? Is Stephenson calling his own game?

[Tony Cloninger]

It's one game. He should be getting a start every 5th day for the rest of the season. They need to see what he has going into next season and he's not going to prove it in AAA.

I’m not saying don’t give him more starts. But the dude has concentration issues or lack of something. He’s pitching against this team like they are the Houston Astros.

[westofyou]

Yea let’s blame the manager for a pitcher not being able to throw strikes to a pitcher.
RZ logic.
And I already made it clear Riggleman is annoying me already but how is this his fault?

He walked Mes to face the pitcher... then the pitcher throws breaking balls to the other pitcher

Who is calling the game?

I have to think Riggleman has a hand in it

[Kc61]

And this is why Stephenson cannot move forward. Cannot be trusted to do much other than just give you glimpses of what
He can do. But not really doing it.

This is why the love around here for AAA always bothers me. You can dominate AAA and but breaking into the majors is a very different kettle of fish. As Luis Castillo showed earlier this season when he had some troubles.

I wish Stephenson had been given more of this season to break into the bigs. But ok, it’s one game, he hasn’t pitched badly, let’s give him the 7-8 additional starts he’s likely to get between now and the end of the season.

[cumberlandreds]

3-0 Mets going to the 5th.

[Rojo Rijo]

Maybe so but dumb pitching too. Four straight change ups to a pitcher. He just doesn't get it.

I cant imagine those pitches were RS call. Sounds like Riggleman was trying to induce the DP. Piss poor management.

[Rojo Rijo]

Of course he needs to do better, but the manager needs to put the player in a better position to succeed. The first intentional walk was dumb too, just let the kid pitch.

AMEN

[NebraskaRed]

Riggleman has done everything he can to show that he should not manage this team after this year.

He's been fine in some regards, and puzzling as all get out in other ways.

[Tony Cloninger]

Because he walked Mesoraco to load the bases knowing RS has trouble throwing strikes. Devin isn't any good and it costs the team 2 runs so far. Obviously RS needs to throw strikes but it was ill advised at best.

He was not that wild though and it is the freaking pitcher. Not a good hitting pitching either.

I do want to know why so many breaking balls? If that’s Riggleman then add another thing to the list.

[Kc61]

Riggleman has done everything he can to show that he should not manage this team after this year.

He's been fine in some regards, and puzzling as all get out in other ways.

I don’t disagree. But the next manager, whoever he is, will undoubtedly be puzzling as well. They all are puzzling.

[HokieRed]

This is a day, of all days, when we don't need micromanagement.

[ochoa30]

You wonder how much RS is holding back to throw strikes as well... He used to throw 95+ and now hes more around 92-93. His breaking pitches are good but it's still going to come down to fastball command. Needs it to keep the batter honest.

[NebraskaRed]

I don’t disagree. But the next manager, whoever he is, will undoubtedly be puzzling as well. They all are puzzling.

Indeed.

[cumberlandreds]

Lorenzen pinch hits for RS. So his day is over.

[Tony Cloninger]

I don’t disagree. But the next manager, whoever he is, will undoubtedly be puzzling as well. They all are puzzling.

If only there was a media source that could ask Riggleman what his thought process was.

[Rolando]

I don’t disagree. But the next manager, whoever he is, will undoubtedly be puzzling as well. They all are puzzling.

I agree every manager will do weird things. I also don't think Riggleman has done anything to get the full time job

[Griffey012]

Expecting Stephenson to come to the bigs and not succumb to any bouts of control issues is foolish. Also, already proclaiming Stephenson is the same guy as before is foolish. It is 1 game and 4 innings people, good riddance. We don't know squat at this point.

[Rolando]

If only there was a media source that could ask Riggleman what his thought process was.

Well Jim day is too busy cracking jokes to ask

[REDREAD]

I cant imagine those pitches were RS call. Sounds like Riggleman was trying to induce the DP. Piss poor management.

Well, since this is a developmental start, it seems like a good idea to let RS practice trying to induce the DP.
Or if he can't get the DP, then an out that does not score runs. Then RS has the leadoff hitter with bases loaded and 2 outs.
That's better than the #8 hitter up, 2nd and 3rd and one out.

Just about every manager in baseball would walk Mez in that situation, IMO.
RS has to execute.

[cumberlandreds]

Lorenzen stays in to pitch. Its 3-0 Mets in the fifth.

[Rojo Rijo]

Stephenson has thrown 5 walks which is all you'll hear about.

Two of those were IBBs to the #8 hitter.
One was four straight change ups to the opposing pitcher.
One was on a 3-2 count to Conforto (who hadn't swing at any of the first 5 pitches)
One was a lead off walk where the 2-1 pitch was in the zone.

Then he gets pulled after 4 innings and 76 pitches.

I would absolutely detest being in the Reds organization if I was a professional baseball pitcher.

[Tony Cloninger]

Just ask the next candidates if they like the things we all hated about Dusty. Price and now Riggleman.

Basically. Batting orders. Vet love. Leaving starters in too long. Not knowing when to take any pitcher who does not have it out. Bunting. Yelling and cursing at reporters.

[NebraskaRed]

better intentionally walk Flores and Conforto to get to Bautista, then intentionally walk Nimmo to get to Jackson, then intentionally walk Mes again just for fun

[Kc61]

Stephenson’s out of the game.

I know it’s abundantly clear from other posts, but I really dislike how the Reds have handled him this year.

He’s out of options, let him pitch to big league hitters. Lengthen the leash for goodness sakes.

[Rolando]

Of course he needs to do better, but the manager needs to put the player in a better position to succeed. The first intentional walk was dumb too, just let the kid pitch.

Well he pitch well at all today. Doesn't mean he can't in the future. But he was very meh today.

[Griffey012]

Stephenson’s out of the game.

I know it’s abundantly clear from other posts, but I really dislike how the Reds have handled him this year.

He’s out of options, let him pitch to big league hitters. Lengthen the leash for goodness sakes.

But we gotta manage things like every game is a must win playoff game...

Also, it is going to be important for Stephenson to work through the moments when he loses mechanics and loses control as a result. Immediately pulling him doesn't really help that learning.

[Tom Servo]

But he was very meh today.
No doubt. But overall I don't think I learned anything about Stephenson from this game. Too much of the invisible hand on the scales.

[Rojo Rijo]

Well, since this is a developmental start, it seems like a good idea to let RS practice trying to induce the DP.
Or if he can't get the DP, then an out that does not score runs. Then RS has the leadoff hitter with bases loaded and 2 outs.
That's better than the #8 hitter up, 2nd and 3rd and one out.

Just about every manager in baseball would walk Mez in that situation, IMO.
RS has to execute.

No, calling 4 straight change ups is moronic. You'd have to be hollow in the head to keep calling them after the second one missed. As for the Mesoraco walk I'm going to just go ahead and disagree that every manager is pitching around a .226 hitter.

[NebraskaRed]

John Fay

@johnfayman

Stephenson on walks yesterday: “I think the biggest thing for me is it's part of my game. I realize I walk people and obviously want to cut that. But I'm not going to change anything just to avoid walking people.”

[Tony Cloninger]

Expecting Stephenson to come to the bigs and not succumb to any bouts of control issues is foolish. Also, already proclaiming Stephenson is the same guy as before is foolish. It is 1 game and 4 innings people, good riddance. We don't know squat at this point.

The game was a microcosm of all his issues. But I did not say he should not be given more starts nor did I think he needed
To be pulled either. Unless he was just gassed after a high stress inning and 76 pitches felt more like 100.

[Mutaman]

Wouldn’t get too excited.

Good advice when it comes to any player in this organization

[NebraskaRed]

should have intentionally walked Nimmo

[Rolando]

No doubt. But overall I don't think I learned anything about Stephenson from this game. Too much of the invisible hand on the scales.

I agree nothing was leaned today he needs to get a starts til the season ends

[Ironman92]

I know one thing...if this continues and the Reds use a position player to pitch, it won’t be Ervin.

I can’t tell you the last ball he threw in and it was caught. Mackey Sasser out there.

[NebraskaRed]

should have intentionally walked Jackson

[Tony Cloninger]

No, calling 4 straight change ups is moronic. You'd have to be hollow in the head to keep calling them after the second one missed. As for the Mesoraco walk I'm going to just go ahead and disagree that every manager is pitching around a .226 hitter.

You would be wrong. ALOT of managers walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher. You’re fooling yourself if you don’t think so.

[REDREAD]

RS had a poor start. I am not sure how much good it would do to continue to let him pitch.

Sure, in the grand scheme of things, it's just one start , albeit in a career of frustrating starts.
Hopefully he does better next time, but I don't blame a manager for yanking a pitcher after he walks the pitcher to bring in a run.. RS has to learn control if he's going to be a MLB pitcher (even a bullpen guy).. He's struggled with it his entire career.
Maybe the Reds have decided a tough love approach is better for a guy that said he is just happy to be on the MLB roster.

[CaiGuy]

should have intentionally walked Jackson

Jackson should have bunted.

[Tom Servo]

You would be wrong. ALOT of managers walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher. You’re fooling yourself if you don’t think so.
A lot of managers are dumb, like Bryan Price. And that's why they get fired, like Bryan Price.

[REDREAD]

No, calling 4 straight change ups is moronic. You'd have to be hollow in the head to keep calling them after the second one missed. As for the Mesoraco walk I'm going to just go ahead and disagree that every manager is pitching around a .226 hitter.

Maybe the message is to RS.. you better be able to throw that pitch for a strike or you are not a MLB pitcher.

[cumberlandreds]

Mets pounding the Reds now 5-0 after five.

[Tony Cloninger]

A lot of managers are dumb, like Bryan Price. And that's why they get fired, like Bryan Price.

Let’s forgo managers moving forward. Just play Stratomatic. Spin the wheel and go with that result. I’m out of ideas on who is a good manager. And how about those helpful bench coaches?

[NebraskaRed]

Stephenson should have intentionally walked Riggleman

[Mutaman]

On the bright side we won't be reading any more posts about how Stephenson should replace Romano. This Mets' lineup is really anemic- how do u walk 5 of them in 4 innings?

[Baseballdad37]

No, calling 4 straight change ups is moronic. You'd have to be hollow in the head to keep calling them after the second one missed. As for the Mesoraco walk I'm going to just go ahead and disagree that every manager is pitching around a .226 hitter.

And who do you think was calling those change ups??

[Tom Servo]

On the bright side we won't be reading any more posts about how Stephenson should replace Romano. This Mets' lineup is really anemic- how do u walk 5 of them in 4 innings?He walked three of them, Riggleman did the others.

[Baseballdad37]

Lorenzen hasn’t been that much better lately. Very hittable(if that’s a word) lately!!

[Rojo Rijo]

RS had a poor start. I am not sure how much good it would do to continue to let him pitch.

Sure, in the grand scheme of things, it's just one start , albeit in a career of frustrating starts.
Hopefully he does better next time, but I don't blame a manager for yanking a pitcher after he walks the pitcher to bring in a run.. RS has to learn control if he's going to be a MLB pitcher (even a bullpen guy).. He's struggled with it his entire career.
Maybe the Reds have decided a tough love approach is better for a guy that said he is just happy to be on the MLB roster.

I blame Riggleman, he's the one that chose to load the bases and call four straight off speed pitches to the pitcher. How you don't call a fastball on 3-0 is beyond me.

[Mutaman]

He walked three of them, Riggleman did the others.

i suspect if he had pitched to them he would have walked them anyhow.

[RED VAN HOT]

Wasn't Stephenson a FB pitcher in his first few years? Where did it go? Even if the control gets better, I don't think he can survive on low 80's breaking balls.

[Rojo Rijo]

On the bright side we won't be reading any more posts about how Stephenson should replace Romano. This Mets' lineup is really anemic- how do u walk 5 of them in 4 innings?

Two were IBBs so you can't put those on RS

- - - Updated - - -


Wasn't Stephenson a FB pitcher in his first few years? Where did it go? Even if the control gets better, I don't think he can survive on low 80's breaking balls.

Tell that to Riggleman

[Alabama]

You RS white knights are ridiculous. The dude has zero control. He is trash.
Absolutely inexcusable to walk DeGrom on 4 straight in that situation. He will not be an effective major league starter with his control issues.

[Ironman92]

Wow. This game is so minor league

[Rojo Rijo]

Maybe the message is to RS.. you better be able to throw that pitch for a strike or you are not a MLB pitcher.

I have no idea why that would be a possibility but it was actually 2 sliders and 2 curves not four change ups. Still 4 off speed pitches in a row. Throwing one on 3-0 is mind numbing.

[Tony Cloninger]

Are you kidding me with this ??

[Ironman92]

Full count baby [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

[Tom Servo]

i suspect if he had pitched to them he would have walked them anyhow.

Well then let’s actually find out next time.

[Tony Cloninger]

Ball freaking 4. Jeepers Riggleman can you make anymore moronic moves today?

[Ironman92]

Geesh...swings at ball 4 and then Peraza thrown out

Should be 1st and 2nd for this Scooter HR

[Mutaman]

Phil Erwin missed more cutoff men in one play than Hank Aaron missed in 22 years.

[CaiGuy]

He is trash.

Alabama isn't a fan of RS? No way, lol.

[Rojo Rijo]

You RS white knights are ridiculous. The dude has zero control. He is trash.
Absolutely inexcusable to walk DeGrom on 4 straight in that situation. He will not be an effective major league starter with his control issues.

Yeah you're wrong. I'll just leave it at that.

[Ironman92]

This game sucks.

Take care guys

[Mutaman]

Well then let’s actually find out next time.

Not too many other options.

[RedlegsFanatic]

Down 5-0 with Degrom on the hill. Top of 6.
Thrown out stealing 2nd.

BRILLIANT!

[Rojo Rijo]

You would be wrong. ALOT of managers walk the #8 hitter to get to the pitcher. You’re fooling yourself if you don’t think so.

Yeah they do, when there are two outs. Smh

[Rolando]

i suspect if he had pitched to them he would have walked them anyhow.

How do you know?

[Rojo Rijo]

Maybe Rigglemans goal is to get DeGrom the Cy Young?

[Mutaman]

How do you know?

"Suspect" does not mean "know".

[Kc61]

That Stephenson’s staying away from the fastball is disturbing. Maybe he’s just not that good and will be a reliever or traded.

Just wish the Reds would give him a real chance against big league hitters, instead all the AAA time and today’s early exit.

Just let the guy pitch, as if Lorenzen was any better when he relieved Bob.

[cumberlandreds]

There's hope yet. :D Degrom is pinch hit for in the 6th.

[Baseballdad37]

Neither am I!

[NebraskaRed]

There's hope yet. :D Degrom is pinch hit for in the 6th.

I still think there's a chance. The Mets bullpen is pretty pathetic.

[Griffey012]

The game was a microcosm of all his issues. But I did not say he should not be given more starts nor did I think he needed
To be pulled either. Unless he was just gassed after a high stress inning and 76 pitches felt more like 100.

It certainly is...but it's nearly impossible to come to any conclusion outside of "he is still going to walk people." from today's game.

Truth is, the game could have been a marked improvement from Stephenson. Perhaps he was battling his control all day and managed to still only give up 3 hits and 3 non intention free passes where in the past he would have walked 7. Or it very well could have just been more of the same. We should know a bit better after a handful of starts.

[Rojo Rijo]

That Stephenson’s staying away from the fastball is disturbing. Maybe he’s just not that good and will be a reliever or traded.

Just wish the Reds would give him a real chance against big league hitters, instead all the AAA time and today’s early exit.

Just let the guy pitch, as if Lorenzen was any better when he relieved Bob.

None of the Reds pitchers are ever good. This is a massive organizational problem. When is the last time any pitchers had a truly dominant start?

[Baseballdad37]

Alabama isn't a fan of RS? No way, lol.

Neither am I

[Mutaman]

None of the Reds pitchers are ever good. This is a massive organizational problem. When is the last time any pitchers had a truly dominant start?

Homer- 3rd game of the 2012 playoffs. We still lost.

[Griffey012]

I have no idea why that would be a possibility but it was actually 2 sliders and 2 curves not four change ups. Still 4 off speed pitches in a row. Throwing one on 3-0 is mind numbing.

Just a guess, but I think Tucker and Stephenson knew his FB control was way off today and that is why they chose to go heavy on the off-speed. It seems a bit counter-intuitive, how can he control off-speed and not the fastball, but it can happen quite frequently to pitchers who struggle to repeat a delivery.

[Rojo Rijo]

Stephenson faced 20 hitters today. He messed up against 3 of them. He wasn't hit hard (3 hits) and he had two bad walks (Conforto and DeGrom). He was *76/41 pitch to strike ratio (DeGrom was 100/66).

*Not a strike to ball ratio. That's pitch to strike ratio. So RS was 41/26, DeGrom was 66/34

[Griffey012]

Stephenson faced 20 hitters today. He messed up against 3 of them. He wasn't hit hard (3 hits) and he had two bad walks (Conforto and DeGrom). He was 67/41 strike to ball ratio (DeGrom was 100/66).

ESPN is showing 76/41, I think you have your numbers flipped. Which then paints a not so friendly picture.

[Rojo Rijo]

Just a guess, but I think Tucker and Stephenson knew his FB control was way off today and that is why they chose to go heavy on the off-speed. It seems a bit counter-intuitive, how can he control off-speed and not the fastball, but it can happen quite frequently to pitchers who struggle to repeat a delivery.

If they don't think RS can throw a fastball over the plate on a 3-0 count then yeah, that's a pretty big issue. I still think you have to go and get that first strike. There is no way DeGrom was swinging on 3-0.

[Flair4Horsemen]

None of the Reds pitchers are ever good. This is a massive organizational problem. When is the last time any pitchers had a truly dominant start?

Luis Castillo July 29, 2018.

[Rojo Rijo]

ESPN is showing 76/41, I think you have your numbers flipped. Which then paints a not so friendly picture.

You're right. I typed it wrong

[Flair4Horsemen]

Just a guess, but I think Tucker and Stephenson knew his FB control was way off today and that is why they chose to go heavy on the off-speed. It seems a bit counter-intuitive, how can he control off-speed and not the fastball, but it can happen quite frequently to pitchers who struggle to repeat a delivery.

Tucker isn't catching today.

[cumberlandreds]

Mets out in order. The Cowboy said RS looks more confident than last year. Lets hope so.

- - - Updated - - -



I will be optimistic and say under.

I should not have been optimistic. :p

[Griffey012]

If they don't think RS can throw a fastball over the plate on a 3-0 count then yeah, that's a pretty big issue. I still think you have to go and get that first strike. There is no way DeGrom was swinging on 3-0.

If a guy is throwing strikes 65% of the time with his off-speed and 35% of the time with his fastball, and doesn't feel in control of his fastball on a given day, isn't going off-speed heavy actually trying to just get ahead?

[Baseballdad37]

ESPN is showing 76/41, I think you have your numbers flipped. Which then paints a not so friendly picture.

Gameday also has 76/41

[Rojo Rijo]

Luis Castillo July 29, 2018.

Yep but I think that's the only one this year.

[NebraskaRed]

The Reds should have intentionally walked this entire season

[Griffey012]

If a guy is throwing strikes 65% of the time with his off-speed and 35% of the time with his fastball, and doesn't feel in control of his fastball on a given day, isn't going off-speed heavy actually trying to just get ahead?

Now, if the current plan is to just not have him throw fastballs as a way to improve his walk rate that is a larger issue. If it was a one off game with the issue that is okay.

[Rojo Rijo]

Gameday also has 76/41

It is 76/41, I had the 76 backwards

[Chip R]

Down 5-0 with Degrom on the hill. Top of 6.
Thrown out stealing 2nd.

BRILLIANT!

Gotta get that one run so you're only down by 4.

[cumberlandreds]

Gotta get that one run so you're only down by 4.

Slam range.

[Alabama]

Stephenson faced 20 hitters today. He messed up against 3 of them. He wasn't hit hard (3 hits) and he had two bad walks (Conforto and DeGrom). He was 67/41 strike to ball ratio (DeGrom was 100/66).

Yeah you’re wrong. I’ll just leave it at that. 166 pitches lol

['69]

Yep but I think that's the only one this year.

What would you consider Romano's start last night?

[Powder River]

Doubling down on the organizational problems with development of pitchers..... I mean,what the heck is going on with this? Why can’t the Reds do better in their handling of developing young pitching talent? If I were them, I’d be putting A LOT of my attention (and money) on figuring this out. Who are the successful organizations? Identify their people and pay them a lot more to come work in cincy. It couldn’t cost more than wasting time and resources on the constant flame outs that we see.

['69]

Gotta get that one run so you're only down by 4.

You gotta get runs, period. So ?

[Rojo Rijo]

Yeah you’re wrong. I’ll just leave it at that. 166 pitches lol

Degrom was 100 total, 66 were strikes. Stephenson was 76 total, 41 were strikes.

and yeah, if you think Stephenson is "trash", you are wrong.

[Rojo Rijo]

What would you consider Romano's start last night?

I'd consider it a great start. 5/3 K/BB over 6 innings and only giving up 2 hits is very solid.

I don't consider that dominant. Dominant is more along the lines of the Castillo start where he struck out 9 and walked 1 over 7 frames.

[Kc61]

Keep in mind, Stephenson is out of options. After good pitching late last year, he was sent to AAA and kept there for four months. He has very little time left to prove himself at the big league level.

So Stephenson probably is feeling some pressure right now and probably wasn’t very comfortable out there.

He really should be given some more time before anyone passes judgment. Not too much time available, but this was one start with intentional walks and all kinds of unusual things.

[Rojo Rijo]

Doubling down on the organizational problems with development of pitchers..... I mean,what the heck is going on with this? Why can’t the Reds do better in their handling of developing young pitching talent? If I were them, I’d be putting A LOT of my attention (and money) on figuring this out. Who are the successful organizations? Identify their people and pay them a lot more to come work in cincy. It couldn’t cost more than wasting time and resources on the constant flame outs that we see.

This is why I get aggravated when the pitchers get overly criticized. The Reds haven't had a pitcher sustain success since Cueto. Aside from a decent season of Disco and Castillo last year there have been zero bright spots in the rotation. There is an organizational problem.

[Flair4Horsemen]

Dilson in at firstbase apparently.

[Baseballdad37]

Didn’t I hear Cowboy say that we have the best pitching instructors in minors??

[Kc61]

This game is yawnfest.

[Powder River]

Didn’t I hear Cowboy say that we have the best pitching instructors in minors??

Doesn’t sound like a very good assessment given the outcome(s) we are seeing...

[Rolando]

This game is yawnfest.
They could have flew home this morning I agree

[cumberlandreds]

This game is yawnfest.

Yea this one was mailed in. I'm afraid the rest of the season may be bad with more auditions by young pitchers and all the injuries are killing this offense.

[mhs95_06]

RS needs to feel pressure, time to respond positively!

['69]

10 walks

- - - Updated - - -

Keep in mind, Stephenson is out of options. After good pitching late last year, he was sent to AAA and kept there for four months. He has very little time left to prove himself at the big league level.

So Stephenson probably is feeling some pressure right now and probably wasn’t very comfortable out there.

He really should be given some more time before anyone passes judgment. Not too much time available, but this was one start with intentional walks and all kinds of unusual things.


Agreed and should be every 5th start til 9/30 -- works for me...

[Powder River]

Yea this one was mailed in. I'm afraid the rest of the season may be bad with more auditions by young pitchers and all the injuries are killing this offense.

This.... and so let’s see Dilson in the lineup more. What have we got there with him?

[Sea Ray]

This.... and so let’s see Dilson in the lineup more. What have we got there with him?

I'd like to see more of Dilson too but it's awfully tough to take Scooter out of the lineup. He's our main power hitter from the left side these days. I don't know if he can cut it at 3rd but Suarez needs a rest

[texasdave]

According to Gameday, Stephenson threw 19 fastballs. 19 of 76 is 25%. That is, by far, the lowest percentage of any Reds' starter.

Here are some of the others: Castillo - 59%, Harvey - 61%, Romano - 65%, DeSclafani - 59%, Bailey - 57%, Reed - 57%, Mahle - 67%, Finnegan - 66%. (These numbers are from FanGraphs.)

[Rolando]

This is embarrassing

[bleedsred]

Ervin into pitch...the guy who can't hit a cutoff man..

[Griffey012]

I'd like to see more of Dilson too but it's awfully tough to take Scooter out of the lineup. He's our main power hitter from the left side these days. I don't know if he can cut it at 3rd but Suarez needs a rest

He is hitting for less power than Jose Peraza the past two months...I think we can afford to take Scooter out of the lineup from time to time. Heck, the rest might do him some good.

[Powder River]

I'd like to see more of Dilson too but it's awfully tough to take Scooter out of the lineup. He's our main power hitter from the left side these days. I don't know if he can cut it at 3rd but Suarez needs a rest

Yeah, I’m with you on this. I wonder though if they could try Dilson in some other places? Spot starting at 2nd, left field, etc..... having said that, I’m not so sure about the 1st base thing lol.

[Baseballdad37]

I think now that Winker is out for the season and Schebler could be out for year, Votto hurting, the starting pitch reverting back back to being sucky again we could be going back to the team that was 3-18!

[westofyou]

This is embarrassing

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yzwAAOSwxp9W8YOf/s-l300.jpg

[texasdave]

MLB.com is reporting that Herrera is going on the DL with a shoulder injury.




Kelvin Herrera. :laugh: Or is it Kelveeeeen?

[Mutaman]

Keep in mind, Stephenson is out of options. After good pitching late last year, he was sent to AAA and kept there for four months. He has very little time left to prove himself at the big league level.

So Stephenson probably is feeling some pressure right now and probably wasn’t very comfortable out there.

He really should be given some more time before anyone passes judgment. Not too much time available, but this was one start with intentional walks and all kinds of unusual things.

Conversation that will never happen:

Mutaman to his client: "I'm sorry I screwed up, I was feeling a lot of pressure and I was uncomfortable. "

Client to Mutaman: " Don't give it a second thought. Even though you have been screwing up consistently since you began representing me, I will give you more time before i pass judgment. "