Marijuana and the NFL

[Redsfaithful]

One thing to consider is that it's a pain management tool - not saying it's the case for Calloway, I have no idea, but the NFL should really look the other way on the issue.

[GAC]

One thing to consider is that it's a pain management tool - not saying it's the case for Calloway, I have no idea, but the NFL should really look the other way on the issue.

I certainly agree that there are beneficial "qualities" to marijuana. It is an herb. I think it is one of those issues that will, with time, go that way. I just see two sides of the story. I understand the employer's stance on it .... safety/quality issues. The issue I have, at least from what I've seen at work over the years, is people having an accident, and getting fired for testing positive for having marijuana in their system. But does that necessarily mean they were "high" or under the influence when they had the accident? Or does that simply tell us - they're a pot smoker and/or have used it recently. The standard the "system" is using is faulty IMO. Maybe they already exist. I don't know. But you'd think they would come up with the technology to give a person an on-the-spot test that could show scientifically that they were currently under the influence, or had used it in the last few hours where they were still impaired.

And until they devise a better way, that's all they have to go on.

The NFL has so many issues .... marijuana should be, IMO, at the bottom of the list. If they legalized it, nobody would know who was/wasn't smoking it anyway. The media would have nothing to report.

[Kingspoint]

I certainly agree that there are beneficial "qualities" to marijuana. It is an herb. I think it is one of those issues that will, with time, go that way. I just see two sides of the story. I understand the employer's stance on it .... safety/quality issues. The issue I have, at least from what I've seen at work over the years, is people having an accident, and getting fired for testing positive for having marijuana in their system. But does that necessarily mean they were "high" or under the influence when they had the accident? Or does that simply tell us - they're a pot smoker and/or have used it recently. The standard the "system" is using is faulty IMO. Maybe they already exist. I don't know. But you'd think they would come up with the technology to give a person an on-the-spot test that could show scientifically that they were currently under the influence, or had used it in the last few hours where they were still impaired.

And until they devise a better way, that's all they have to go on.

The NFL has so many issues .... marijuana should be, IMO, at the bottom of the list. If they legalized it, nobody would know who was/wasn't smoking it anyway. The media would have nothing to report.

The NFL has plenty of issues with drugs. Marijuana is a gateway drug, the way most people use it. Advocates who think otherwise are medically ignorant.

The NFL has plenty of motivational issues. Marijuana dulls the motivational ability of an individual, the way most people use it.

As a pain reliever when used as a pill with many of its side-effects removed, marijuana is highly effective at reducing pain in a far better way than most pain-relievers. In this form, the NFL doctors should be prescribing it.

[Sea Ray]

The NFL has plenty of issues with drugs. Marijuana is a gateway drug, the way most people use it. Advocates who think otherwise are medically ignorant.

The NFL has plenty of motivational issues. Marijuana dulls the motivational ability of an individual, the way most people use it.

As a pain reliever when used as a pill with many of its side-effects removed, marijuana is highly effective at reducing pain in a far better way than most pain-relievers. In this form, the NFL doctors should be prescribing it.

Marijuana certainly seems to be a gateway to Josh Gordon's issues. He obviously had bigger problems than pot but that's pretty much what he kept getting disciplined for

[Bob Sheed]

The NFL has plenty of issues with drugs. Marijuana is a gateway drug, the way most people use it. Advocates who think otherwise are medically ignorant.



Wrong.

Correlation does not imply causation.

And anyway, by your rationale, alcohol would be much more of a gateway drug than marijuana.

Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang members are 104 times more likely to have ridden a bicycle as a kid than those who don’t become Hell’s Angels, but that doesn’t mean that riding a two-wheeler is a “gateway” to joining a motorcycle gang.

This "gateway drug" nonsense ranks right up there with anti-vaxors and chem-trail experts. You're smarter than that, I know. Just grossly misinformed.

[kaldaniels]

Wrong.

Correlation does not imply causation.

And anyway, by your rationale, alcohol would be much more of a gateway drug than marijuana.

Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang members are 104 times more likely to have ridden a bicycle as a kid than those who don’t become Hell’s Angels, but that doesn’t mean that riding a two-wheeler is a “gateway” to joining a motorcycle gang.

This "gateway drug" nonsense ranks right up there with anti-vaxors and chem-trail experts. You're smarter than that, I know. Just grossly misinformed.

That 104-times is just made up...right? Or is a motorcycle and bicycle one in the same as far as your paragraph goes?

[GAC]

Lets just say, when it comes to an "argument" on this issue of gateway, it's not a settled argument among the scientific/medical community, because there's not enough sound evidence either way to make it conclusive. ;)

[Bob Sheed]

That 104-times is just made up...right? Or is a motorcycle and bicycle one in the same as far as your paragraph goes?

Correlation does not imply causation.

If your focus is on anything else, you're missing the point, deliberately or otherwise.


Lets just say, when it comes to an "argument" on this issue of gateway, it's not a settled argument among the scientific/medical community, because there's not enough sound evidence either way to make it conclusive. ;)

Again... this isn't limited to marijuana, or bicycles, or any other singular topic.

Correlation does not imply causation. And anyone basing their point of view on the contrary, is very very... mistaken.

And to be fair, there is a LOT of "mistaken" in the world, in this regard. Because people think what they want to think. We believe what we want to believe. And any connection we can find to reinforce those beliefs, we're all over it, facts be darned.

But one thing there is no question about, and a 30 second google search can confirm this, if you so choose... is that Correlation does not imply causation. And calling marijuana a "gateway drug," is a textbook example of violating this principle.

I'm sorry but from a debate standpoint, this is a layup. You can disagree with gravity too if you like.

tl;dr Did you know that pirate cause global warming?!?! News at 11!! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3aPiratesVsTemp%28en%29.svg)

https://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/36/examples-for-teaching-correlation-does-not-mean-causation

Did you know IQ is related to your shoe size? etc etc etc.

[Kingspoint]

Correlation does not imply causation.

If your focus is on anything else, you're missing the point, deliberately or otherwise.



Again... this isn't limited to marijuana, or bicycles, or any other singular topic.

Correlation does not imply causation. And anyone basing their point of view on the contrary, is very very... mistaken.

And to be fair, there is a LOT of "mistaken" in the world, in this regard. Because people think what they want to think. We believe what we want to believe. And any connection we can find to reinforce those beliefs, we're all over it, facts be darned.

But one thing there is no question about, and a 30 second google search can confirm this, if you so choose... is that Correlation does not imply causation. And calling marijuana a "gateway drug," is a textbook example of violating this principle.

I'm sorry but from a debate standpoint, this is a layup. You can disagree with gravity too if you like.

tl;dr Did you know that pirate cause global warming?!?! News at 11!! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3aPiratesVsTemp%28en%29.svg)

https://stats.stackexchange.com/questions/36/examples-for-teaching-correlation-does-not-mean-causation

Did you know IQ is related to your shoe size? etc etc etc.
Bob Sheed, it is ignorant to ignore the medical evidence of the addictive properties of Marijuana as it is normally used and it is obtuse to ignore the overwhelming medical evidence that the majority of addiction professionals know as second nature that marijuana is a gateway drug. What happens to the body and the brain at a molecular level all support this.

Of course, readers of "High Times" have to vehemently disagree or they wouldn't be able to justify their campaign for its legalization. There are always numerous doctors who will do anything for a dollar to support any agenda, as evidenced by all the NFL team doctors and their attitudes towards CTE, or any other doctor that takes money or a job in support of their employers agenda. But, responsible addiction professionals all know first-hand the overwhelming evidence that marijuana is both addictive and is a gateway drug.

[kaldaniels]

If your focus is on anything else, you're missing the point, deliberately or otherwise.

This certainly doesn't warrant a new thread, but could you answer me as I found that number interesting.

This is what you said.


Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang members are 104 times more likely to have ridden a bicycle as a kid than those who don’t become Hell’s Angels, but that doesn’t mean that riding a two-wheeler is a “gateway” to joining a motorcycle gang.

I'd never heard that before and it sounds like a large number. If you just made it up to make your point that's fine, but just say so.

No need to say that I'm deliberately missing the point, I just asked a simple question as again, it sounded interesting. No need to dodge and weave, just let me know where "104 times" came from and I won't say a word as to that. Frankly if that's a legit number I'd love to use it at times...and if it helps I'm on your side...correlation does not equal causation!

Sorry mods...I'm don't care much about the MJ debate here...I just wanted to get to the bottom of that supplementing claim.

Go Browns!

[Kingspoint]

Here's the qualifier:

Why you are so adamant Bob why you believe marijuana is not a gateway drug is because for most of the population it is not.

But, for anyone who has the physical disease of Alcoholism (defined by the AMA in 1956 by a generation of doctors so long ago that all of them are dead), marijuana is a gateway drug. When absorbed into the system it flips on switches in the body at the molecular level from it's properties that in a person without the physical disease of alcoholism reacts to these properties differently. These switches or gateways do not get opened. The same effects are produced that happens when other gateway drugs are introduced to the person who has the physical disease of alcoholism.

To explain in detail how this works, it would take a giant chalkboard and 30 minutes of explanation to put it into layman's terms. And, even then, any understanding would be basic, at best. For someone who has a full grasp of molecular biology (a few classes of getting an 'A' in college doesn't come close to satisfying this requirement), they would need 15+ minutes to graps it. Most Addiction Professionals do not have this capability. Addiction professionals with molecular biology training do, and these are the people addiction professionals refer to.

The danger in saying that marijuana is not a gateway drug is because it's false. It's better to say the truth that it is in those who have the physical disease of alcoholism (it's not a moral disease or a spiritual disease, though a spiritual cure can provide a daily reprieve) that marijuana is a gateway drug. Do you want to play russian roulette that you don't have that bullet in your chamber, that you don't have the physical disease of alcoholism? If so, then go ahead. Try some controlled usage. Try it for a year. If you're able to avoid going past the amount that you intended to over that time, time and time again, then perhaps you don't have that bullet. 10% of the population does.

As far as marijuana being addictive. It is. That's a fact. When entered into the system, marijuana flips on the same switches in the body at the molecular level that other addictions flip on. This is not debateable. It's long established knowledge. To deny this is pure ignorance.

[WrongVerb]

Lets just say, when it comes to an "argument" on this issue of gateway, it's not a settled argument among the scientific/medical community, because there's not enough sound evidence either way to make it conclusive. ;)

I agree with this. And I say this as someone who has smoked recreationally in the recent (few years ago) past. And I'd like to see it legalized nationally for recreational use.

That said, current laws don't even allow for research to be done so we can have enough scientific information to make the best decision on it that we can. Let's relax those laws so we can learn, rather than just having these back and forth baseless assertions about the drug.

[Assembly Hall]

I agree with this. And I say this as someone who has smoked recreationally in the recent (few years ago) past. And I'd like to see it legalized nationally for recreational use.

That said, current laws don't even allow for research to be done so we can have enough scientific information to make the best decision on it that we can. Let's relax those laws so we can learn, rather than just having these back and forth baseless assertions about the drug.

Purdue is growing hemp right now.

[WrongVerb]

Purdue is growing hemp right now.

I think UCLA is beginning research as well. But these are still in violation of federal regulations. Those regulations should be relaxed.

[Assembly Hall]

I think UCLA is beginning research as well. But these are still in violation of federal regulations. Those regulations should be relaxed.

If I remember the conversation right concerning Purdue......I do believe it has the USDA's blessing. Heard it on the radio.

[dubc47834]

This is just my opinion, but I feel that alcohol is much worse than marijuana as being a gateway drug, and just worse as a whole for society. As a guy that struggled with alcohol and drugs when I was younger, alcohol was my gateway. I can't remember a time that weed made me want to do other drugs, it was while I was drinking that I had no control. Luckily I no longer have those struggles. Having a kid and manning up will help straighten a guy out!!!

[Bob Sheed]

It's not just your opinion.

How many marijuana overdoses have there been in the history of mankind?

Zero.

And the fact that many here are pontificating about addiction without specifying the difference between physical and psychological addiction, speaks volumes about their lack of understanding.

Alcohol, nicotine, even caffeine... all of these are far more physically addictive than marijuana, on all fronts. It's debatable whether or not marijuana is even physically addictive at all.

I will say this... those of you here that misunderstand, and continue to spread misinformation about marijuana...you are making the big pharmaceutical companies VERY happy. Same with textile and oil companies. They LOVE your ignorance here.

I don't smoke pot, by the way. I don't do anything shady behind closed doors either, yet I am still an advocate for privacy and net neutrality. Imagine that.

I just can't believe that we are in 2018 and there are still people spouting this "marijuana is a gateway drug" nonsense with such conviction. Seriously...ranks right up there with the truthers and anti-vaxxors. Facts be darned they will just keep doubling down. Truly baffling.

[RedTeamGo!]

It's not just your opinion.

How many marijuana overdoses have there been in the history of mankind?

Zero.

And the fact that many here are pontificating about addiction without specifying the difference between physical and psychological addiction, speaks volumes about their lack of understanding.

Alcohol, nicotine, even caffeine... all of these are far more physically addictive than marijuana, on all fronts. It's debatable whether or not marijuana is even physically addictive at all.

I will say this... those of you here that misunderstand, and continue to spread misinformation about marijuana...you are making the big pharmaceutical companies VERY happy. Same with textile and oil companies. They LOVE your ignorance here.

I don't smoke pot, by the way. I don't do anything shady behind closed doors either, yet I am still an advocate for privacy and net neutrality. Imagine that.

I just can't believe that we are in 2018 and there are still people spouting this "marijuana is a gateway drug" nonsense with such conviction. Seriously...ranks right up there with the truthers and anti-vaxxors. Facts be darned they will just keep doubling down. Truly baffling.

I don’t even engage with “pot is a gateway drug” folks anymore. Just have to wait for them to die out. That nonsense will mostly die out with the baby boomer generation.

[Yachtzee]

As someone who works in the Criminal Justice field, I will say in my experience and the experience of many who I work with that deal with drug users on a daily basis, I haven't seen anything that bears out the theory that marijuana is a gateway drug to other drugs. On the other hand, I would say that there are quite a few drugs that are legal with a prescription that are most certainly gateway drugs that lead people into harder street drugs.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I will say that there are definitely tests to determine whether someone has active THC (the stuff that gets you high) in their system vs. whether someone has marijuana metabolites, which are the substances that can stay in your system for up to 45 days.

Back to the original topic, I'm not so concerned about NFL players using marijuana as much as I am about the effects of playing football has on players' brains. In fact, I would be more concerned about the long term effects that the legal drugs that players get prescribed for pain management than I would about marijuana.

[Assembly Hall]

As someone who works in the Criminal Justice field, I will say in my experience and the experience of many who I work with that deal with drug users on a daily basis, I haven't seen anything that bears out the theory that marijuana is a gateway drug to other drugs. On the other hand, I would say that there are quite a few drugs that are legal with a prescription that are most certainly gateway drugs that lead people into harder street drugs.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I will say that there are definitely tests to determine whether someone has active THC (the stuff that gets you high) in their system vs. whether someone has marijuana metabolites, which are the substances that can stay in your system for up to 45 days.

Back to the original topic, I'm not so concerned about NFL players using marijuana as much as I am about the effects of playing football has on players' brains. In fact, I would be more concerned about the long term effects that the legal drugs that players get prescribed for pain management than I would about marijuana.

Great post.......I will smoke a "fatty" to it!!!!!!!!

[GAC]

This is just my opinion, but I feel that alcohol is much worse than marijuana as being a gateway drug, and just worse as a whole for society. As a guy that struggled with alcohol and drugs when I was younger, alcohol was my gateway. I can't remember a time that weed made me want to do other drugs, it was while I was drinking that I had no control. Luckily I no longer have those struggles. Having a kid and manning up will help straighten a guy out!!!

I always like hearing a positive testimony of a survivor, someone who owned up and beat it. :thumbup:

[dubc47834]

I always like hearing a positive testimony of a survivor, someone who owned up and beat it. :thumbup:

Thank you!

Luckily my issues never impacted my career. If it had, it would not have turned out like it has!!!

[GAC]

Thank you!

Luckily my issues never impacted my career. If it had, it would not have turned out like it has!!!

Mine never impacted my career, but it almost impacted my marriage in the first 5 years ((divorce). I didn't want to give up my marijuana and not hanging out with my buddies (drinking). I was still young, immature. I had to sit myself down and have a good heart-to-heart, asking the question "What is the most important thing in my life? I mean, why did I get married? Do I love my wife?"

I made the right choice. I've been married to my wife 38 years, and raised three good kids to adulthood. Proud of all my children. And now my wife and I are about to enter the next phase of our life, which is retirement. We both worked hard for this, didn't know if it would ever get here (LOL). But the more I've dwelt on it these last couple of months, and as that "day" draws near, I'm excited about the quality time, the closeness, I'm going to be able to spend with my wife, and all the things we look forward to doing together. I've told her "This is OUR time".

The bottom-line is .... life is all about making choices good or bad. And IMO, it's only those that really step back and take a good hard look at the ramifications of the choices they made, hate it, and decide to do something about, that survive and have a quality of life. We all have our "demons" (LOL)

[dubc47834]

Mine never impacted my career, but it almost impacted my marriage in the first 5 years ((divorce). I didn't want to give up my marijuana and not hanging out with my buddies (drinking). I was still young, immature. I had to sit myself down and have a good heart-to-heart, asking the question "What is the most important thing in my life? I mean, why did I get married? Do I love my wife?"

I made the right choice. I've been married to my wife 38 years, and raised three good kids to adulthood. Proud of all my children. And now my wife and I are about to enter the next phase of our life, which is retirement. We both worked hard for this, didn't know if it would ever get here (LOL). But the more I've dwelt on it these last couple of months, and as that "day" draws near, I'm excited about the quality time, the closeness, I'm going to be able to spend with my wife, and all the things we look forward to doing together. I've told her "This is OUR time".

The bottom-line is .... life is all about making choices good or bad. And IMO, it's only those that really step back and take a good hard look at the ramifications of the choices they made, hate it, and decide to do something about, that survive and have a quality of life. We all have our "demons" (LOL)

This was like looking in a mirror! So glad everything worked out for you!