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Ron Madden
07-01-2019, 01:13 PM
Winker RF
Votto 1B
Suarez 3B
Gennett 2B
Senzel CF
Dietrich LF
Iglesias SS
Casali C
Mahle P

cumberlandreds
07-01-2019, 01:19 PM
Casali is going to be an iron man behind the plate until Barnhart comes back.

RiverfrontRed
07-01-2019, 01:22 PM
Puig sits...

CaiGuy
07-01-2019, 01:25 PM
Puig sits...

Getting the lefties in there today...I like it.

klw
07-01-2019, 01:28 PM
Whatever complaints people have about Bell, Williams and company, they get the lineups out far earlier than under the Price regime.

CaiGuy
07-01-2019, 01:37 PM
Whatever complaints people have about Bell, Williams and company, they get the lineups out far earlier than under the Price regime.

Exactly, more time to complain! ;)

NebraskaRed
07-01-2019, 01:37 PM
Whatever complaints people have about Bell, Williams and company, they get the lineups out far earlier than under the Price regime.

I think I've read that Bell tends to make the lineup the night before.

JaxRed
07-01-2019, 02:37 PM
Casali is going to be an iron man behind the plate until Barnhart comes back.

Love to see what Farmer looks like behind the plate.

RichRed
07-01-2019, 03:11 PM
Ahh, Mahle-to-Casali. One of the top 5 rhyming batteries of all time.

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 03:20 PM
Casali is going to be an iron man behind the plate until Barnhart comes back.

I think you will see Farmer get a start in the Brewers series, either Wednesday night or Thursday afternoon.

Roy Tucker
07-01-2019, 07:14 PM
Greetings from GABP. Gorgeous night at the ballpark.

North
07-01-2019, 07:17 PM
I think I've read that Bell tends to make the lineup the night before.

Nothing wrong with giving the competition a heads-up...er.

EDIT: Did I think that out properly?

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 07:24 PM
"Blinded by the light..."

NebraskaRed
07-01-2019, 07:25 PM
it took him a lot of pitches, but Mahle gets it done in the first.

JaxRed
07-01-2019, 07:26 PM
Mahle throws about 26 pitches but gets out with only a walk to Yelich. Dietrich fought the sun for last out.

NebraskaRed
07-01-2019, 07:29 PM
Winker breaks up the no-hitter.

North
07-01-2019, 07:29 PM
Nice Texas Leaguer for Winker.

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 07:32 PM
If the Reds hitters were competent bunters, they could get these shifts minimized. I would exploit the shift every time.

Alas, another facet of the game is missing.

Sea Ray
07-01-2019, 07:36 PM
Reds really rushed Scooter Gennett. He is in no way ready to face major league pitching. This is early March for his timing. I know he didn't want to stay long in the minor leagues, who would? But it's hurting the major league team. Why the Reds do stuff like this I'll never know

Bob Sheed
07-01-2019, 07:39 PM
There you go, RZ.... an apology from Thom, just for you. :lol:

NebraskaRed
07-01-2019, 07:41 PM
only 15 pitches that time, and Mahle gets it done again.

Indymoon
07-01-2019, 07:41 PM
There you go, RZ.... an apology from Thom, just for you. :lol:

His last sentence was unnecessary.

Ron Madden
07-01-2019, 07:41 PM
39 pitches in 2 innings will make it kinda tough to pitch deep into the game Tyler.

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 07:45 PM
Lo Calorie Diet Rich with a nice 2 bagger

Bob Sheed
07-01-2019, 07:46 PM
His last sentence was unnecessary.

It was kind of a sorry, not sorry, wasn't it...

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 07:46 PM
The bottom is kinda falling out for Jose

NebraskaRed
07-01-2019, 07:47 PM
15043

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 07:47 PM
It just amazes me that the Reds are dead last in MLB in doubles. Third to last in total hits. Shows you how slow the team is.

davereds24
07-01-2019, 07:48 PM
The bottom is kinda falling out for Jose

His bat was so quick the first couple months. Time to get Peraza more work the give Iglesias more rest. No reason to start all 3 games against the Cubs in that heat then again tonight.

Wonderful Monds
07-01-2019, 07:49 PM
The bottom is kinda falling out for Jose

I thought the talk of how he should get an extension seemed pretty premature. This seemed completely inevitable.

He’s a fine backup, but nothing more than that.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 07:49 PM
It just amazes me that the Reds are dead last in MLB in doubles. Third to last in total hits. Shows you how slow the team is.

I'm not sure if that's related to their footspeed. I just think it's an all-or-nothing approach for most of these hitters, and you take a big dip when Votto has become more of a singles hitter.

JaxRed
07-01-2019, 07:51 PM
Scooter should not stand shirtless next to Dietrich.

Sea Ray
07-01-2019, 07:51 PM
It's sad that our 8 hitter is so weak that the other team sees no reason to pitch around him with 2 outs and 1B open

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 07:52 PM
I'm not sure if that's related to their footspeed. I just think it's an all-or-nothing approach for most of these hitters, and you take a big dip when Votto has become more of a singles hitter.

good point.

Indymoon
07-01-2019, 07:53 PM
It was kind of a sorry, not sorry, wasn't it...

He said sorry and asked for “grace” from critics and then I think said I know that’s hard for some (or many?) of you. Just odd.

Bob Sheed
07-01-2019, 07:54 PM
Mahle looks great.

But also looks to hit 100 pitches by the 6th inning.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 07:57 PM
Thom FSO Hex in 3...2...1...

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 08:20 PM
Thom gets fooled on a fairly routine flyout by Dietrich.

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 08:20 PM
Give the poor guy some run support

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 08:21 PM
Thom gets fooled on a fairly routine flyout by Dietrich.

15044

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 08:26 PM
Durnit. Mahle just seems to lose location on one a game. That was tee'd up.

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 08:29 PM
Man, Hiura has serious pop. Hes a 30 homer guy in the future. The rich get richer.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 08:32 PM
Definitely obstruction. He did not touch the bag because the pitcher was in way. Should be an easy call right here.


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ochoa30
07-01-2019, 08:32 PM
That should be obstruction IMO. No way Iglesias could get to the bag.

davereds24
07-01-2019, 08:34 PM
I'd love to know the details on this rule. He was out before the pitcher really blocked the baseline. Should have ran him over though.

North
07-01-2019, 08:35 PM
Batter up.

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 08:36 PM
Man, weak offense so far. Lots of pop ups and flairs.

UKWhoDey
07-01-2019, 08:37 PM
If someone gets a legit explanation on that, we'd all love to see it.

Roy Tucker
07-01-2019, 08:40 PM
My guess is that they ruled obstruction happened after Thames tagged the base. But I think a case could be made that Iglesias had to slow down because the pitcher was in the way.

redsmetz
07-01-2019, 08:42 PM
This my thinking following the call being upheld. I can’t decide if Iglesias slowed down as he swerved.

Roy Tucker
07-01-2019, 08:42 PM
Bell wasn’t happy.

I was about 50 ft from the play and I told my wife beats the crap out of me.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 08:43 PM
Man I tell ya, I was expecting at least a decent outing by this reds lineup prior to the game and they have been a disappointment thus far. Gotta give the Mahle some support, címon guys.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 08:43 PM
Nice inning for Mahle.

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 08:44 PM
Very nice start from Mahle with literally only one mistake and hes losing 1-0. Wake up offense and get the kid some runs already!!

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 08:46 PM
Wink Show! :jump:

tied up!

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
Very nice start from Mahle with literally only one mistake and hes losing 1-0. Wake up offense and get the kid some runs already!!

There ya go!

RR1971
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
My guess is that they ruled obstruction happened after Thames tagged the base. But I think a case could be made that Iglesias had to slow down because the pitcher was in the way.
I think for it to be called when a play is being made the umpire has to think he would have been out if not for the obstruction. I would think they agreed he got in the way but it didnt matter. I agree with the no call

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
Thank you Jesse!! Keep it going!

North
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
Winker whacks one.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
Winker ties it up with an oppo HR.

Tadasimha
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
Winker Dinker Bomb!

kaldaniels
07-01-2019, 08:47 PM
Weak Winker!

You could really sense Jesse was locked into Houser that AB.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 08:48 PM
Atta boy Wink! Letís get some more!!!!


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Kc61
07-01-2019, 08:48 PM
Winker has good power to left field, that’s one area he’s improved this year.

Mahle should buy Jesse a gift. Mahle gets so little run support.

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 08:49 PM
Votto with a lowly walk.

#notelite

Redeye fly
07-01-2019, 08:51 PM
Maybe one of the most awkward looking walks in some time but we'll take the baserunner.

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 08:52 PM
Winker has good power to left field, that’s one area he’s improved this year.

Mahle should buy Jesse a gift. Mahle gets so little run support.

You know, I was thinking. Kal Daniels had good opposite field power and was a poor defensive outfielder for the Reds back in the late 80's. He was also a good leadoff hitter. (Had much better speed than Winker, though.)

NCReds
07-01-2019, 08:53 PM
Maybe one of the most awkward looking walks in some time but we'll take the baserunner.

I think he thought he was gonna get rung up on that one. Looked like he gave a sigh of relief once the ump didnít call a strike

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 08:54 PM
A. HUGH!!!

Redeye fly
07-01-2019, 08:54 PM
Suarez!!!

Kc61
07-01-2019, 08:54 PM
You know, I was thinking. Kal Daniels had good opposite field power and was a poor defensive outfielder for the Reds back in the late 80's. He was also a good leadoff hitter. (Had much better speed than Winker, though.)

Good thought, Kal was not a bad comp for Jesse. Both with the hit tool. I would say Kal had more power, but Jesse’s power has improved this season.

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 08:55 PM
Hell yeah Suarez! Great AB!!

NCReds
07-01-2019, 08:55 PM
9 pitch AB that ended with a HR. I hear ya geno!!!!!!

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 08:55 PM
Eugene!!!!

Tadasimha
07-01-2019, 08:55 PM
Boom shakalaka boom boom boom

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 08:56 PM
So I think Suarez's slump is over

Kc61
07-01-2019, 08:56 PM
Mahle wondering if he’s dreaming. Three runs.

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 08:56 PM
Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds 100-Home Run Club
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Joey Votto - 277
5. Adam Dunn - 270
6. Ted Kluszewski - 251
7. George Foster - 244
8. Jay Bruce - 233
9. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
10. Eric Davis - 203
11. Barry Larkin - 198
12. Brandon Phillips - 191
13. Vada Pinson - 186
14. Wally Post - 172
15. Gus Bell - 160
16. Joe Morgan - 152
16. Pete Rose - 152
18. Lee May - 147
19. Dan Driessen - 133
20. Reggie Sanders - 125
21. Ernie Lombardi - 120
22. Sean Casey - 118
23. Eugenio Suarez - 112
24. Frank McCormick - 110
25. Todd Frazier - 108
26. Dave Parker - 107
27. Chris Sabo - 104
28. Dave Concepcion - 101

davereds24
07-01-2019, 09:05 PM
Great news on Farmer!

NCReds
07-01-2019, 09:06 PM
Thatís the kind of opposing team HR when you wish you werenít playing in GABP.

Tadasimha
07-01-2019, 09:06 PM
Um, maybe time to let Tyler sit down and let the pen get hin a victory?

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 09:07 PM
3 runs won’t win this game

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:07 PM
Um, maybe time to let Tyler sit down and let the pen get hin a victory?
Imagine the gnashing of teeth if Bell had pulled Mahle before this inning started lol

mamell
07-01-2019, 09:09 PM
Regardless of the outcome of the game that's a nice 3 hitter by Mahle..HR not withstanding..

- - - Updated - - -


3 runs won’t win this game

Probably not, but if the BP holds it's possible..

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:11 PM
Thom says Reds have had the best pen in the NL most of the year.

No, they’ve had the best bullpen ERA most of the year. Not the best bullpen.

SomeCallMeTim
07-01-2019, 09:12 PM
Iíve got a bad feeling about this in an Obiwan sort of way...


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JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:13 PM
This bullpen needs help.

mamell
07-01-2019, 09:13 PM
Hernandez is done for a while at least.. Completely ineffective..

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 09:14 PM
Nice job here by the Gas can Hernandez

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:14 PM
Hernandez seems to be either untouchable or a gas can whenever he appears

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:14 PM
The Reds simply do not have enough late inning relievers. It’s a significant weakness, really has been all season.

Swapping out Duke for Herget isn’t the answer to this problem.

DocRed
07-01-2019, 09:14 PM
Jeezus Hernandez is terrible


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North
07-01-2019, 09:14 PM
Good 'ol Thom...keeping spirits bright.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:15 PM
Capt. Juice bailed us out for first out.

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 09:15 PM
David Hernandez blows.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:15 PM
You know, Thom is actually right on this one. WTH was Ervin doing there?

Rantly
07-01-2019, 09:16 PM
No Thom. I donít think this is the first bump in the road all year by Hernandezí

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:16 PM
The Reds believed they found a market inefficiency. Sign veteran $2-3 million relievers. We’re seeing the pay off.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:16 PM
The Reds simply do not have enough late inning relievers. It’s a significant weakness, really has been all season.

Swapping out Duke for Herget isn’t the answer to this problem.

One of the big problems now is it's probably not fixable this season. The asking price on bullpen help is going to be sky-high this month. So many teams are in need.

JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:17 PM
Get him outta there.

mamell
07-01-2019, 09:18 PM
Nobody in the pen now with Hernandez throwing crap? I dunno..

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:18 PM
One of the big problems now is it's probably not fixable this season. The asking price on bullpen help is going to be sky-high this month. So many teams are in need.

I guess they could add one guy, but agree getting relievers at the deadline is expensive.

But they need to change their philosophy on this. Don’t skimp on the late inning guys. Rely on youth and an occasional vet for early and middle men.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 09:18 PM
Ground ball please.

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 09:19 PM
“The Reds are riding Hernandez hard. REALLY REALLY HARD.”

Roy Tucker
07-01-2019, 09:19 PM
Ugh.

I don’t get the long rope for Hernandez.

757690
07-01-2019, 09:19 PM
I try not to think about what the Reds farm system would be like right now if they had traded Raisel, Hernandez and Hughes last deadline.

Jomama
07-01-2019, 09:19 PM
Get him outta there.

There's nobody even warming up.

JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:19 PM
Is there no one else available in the pen tonight? This is ridiculous.

CWRed
07-01-2019, 09:20 PM
What is happening?

The Operator
07-01-2019, 09:20 PM
Following on my phone from OBX

Why the hell is Hernandez being allowed to go this long

mamell
07-01-2019, 09:20 PM
So Bell is going to just ceed this game to Milwaukee? That last pitch was not even close.. They just brought Hergert up so see what he can do this season in the big leagues.. They didn't bring him up to keep a seat warm I assume.

Jomama
07-01-2019, 09:20 PM
Reds threw in the towel when they didn't retaliate against the Cubs for the bean balls.

CTA513
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
Duke should have taken Hernandez with him.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
Imagine the gnashing of teeth if Bell had pulled Mahle before this inning started lol

Different scenarios. Disco was cruising on 70-ish pitches with a 4-0 lead; Mahle had given 'em about the best he could with a 3-1 lead and 102 pitches.

Red Raindog
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
Following on my phone from OBX

Why the hell is Hernandez being allowed to go this long

Because Bell fell asleep?


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Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
Also odd that Hernandez pitches so often close and late; while Jared Hughes does not.

It’s true Hernandez gets more Ks. But Hughes is a reliable ground ball reliever. With men on base, he could play a greater role.

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
This is baseball malpractice.

malcontent
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
Is Bell purposely throwing this game?

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:21 PM
The Reds believed they found a market inefficiency. Sign veteran $2-3 million relievers. We’re seeing the pay off.
The pen did and has needed shoring up and but I don't get why this has been your big bugaboo. The problem is still the offense, a challenging 10 games stretch from the bullpen doesn't change that.

This is ugly, though. And I know sometimes it's a guy's inning one way or another, but this is practically giving away the game now by not yanking Hernandez.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 09:22 PM
Bowman just threw a wild pitch in the bullpen. God help us

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:22 PM
Different scenarios. Disco was cruising on 70-ish pitches with a 4-0 lead; Mahle had given 'em about the best he could with a 3-1 lead and 102 pitches.
Come on. Imagine if Mahle had gotten yanked and then Hernandez came in and did this, you're telling me people would be saying "Well, Mahle was looking a bit tired..."

- - - Updated - - -

damn this sucks lol

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 09:23 PM
Thommy apparently believes the rest of the pen came down with leprosy

JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:23 PM
Boy there's been some really ugly innings from the pen lately. Bell has had Hernandez face about a dozen lefties tonight.

Roy Tucker
07-01-2019, 09:23 PM
This is pretty ridiculous. I don’t get this at all.

davereds24
07-01-2019, 09:24 PM
How do you pull a starter who has given up 2 runs and allow this to happen?

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:24 PM
Come on. Imagine if Mahle had gotten yanked and then Hernandez came in and did this, you're telling me people would be saying "Well, Mahle was looking a bit tired..."

- - - Updated - - -

damn this sucks lol

Yeah. Some would still nitpick. Just saying it was a different scenario. There wasn't much reason to yank Disco, who had at least an inning left in the tank; most would agree Mahle was about done tonight.

CWRed
07-01-2019, 09:24 PM
I've never seen anything like this. Except for today's Cubs/Pirates game and Joe Maddon.

ukredsfan
07-01-2019, 09:24 PM
I don't understand the occasional overmanaging and occasional indifference without any seeming rhyme or reason. This team has talent, but it's super frustrating.

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:24 PM
The Reds believed they found a market inefficiency. Sign veteran $2-3 million relievers. Weíre seeing the pay off.

And signing expensive relievers is a huge waste of money all the time, so yeah, give me those cheap guys.

ochoa30
07-01-2019, 09:25 PM
Atleast I lost power so I dont have to watch this garbage performance.

Tadasimha
07-01-2019, 09:25 PM
Come on. Imagine if Mahle had gotten yanked and then Hernandez came in and did this, you're telling me people would be saying "Well, Mahle was looking a bit tired..."

- - - Updated - - -

damn this sucks lol

Absolutely. 90+ pitches through six - would not have had an issue with him being pulled, no matter who came in or what happened

The Operator
07-01-2019, 09:25 PM
Gaurantee you there are approximately zero tough questions asked of David Bell after this one.


I can see it now. "Well I guess David didn't have his best stuff tonight?" And that's about it

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:26 PM
This is embarrassing by Bell, no excuse whatsoever.

malcontent
07-01-2019, 09:27 PM
I want Bell's scalp after this.

ukredsfan
07-01-2019, 09:27 PM
Gaurantee you there are approximately zero tough questions asked of David Bell after this one.


I can see it now. "Well I guess David didn't have his best stuff tonight?" And that's about it
Does David didn't have his best stuff tonight refer to Hernandez or Bell?

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:27 PM
And signing expensive relievers is a huge waste of money all the time, so yeah, give me those cheap guys.

You’re seeing the result right now. Enjoy.

TheBigLebowski
07-01-2019, 09:27 PM
I don’t know, but I’d believe it if you told me Bell had money on the Reds losing this one.

North
07-01-2019, 09:27 PM
Chicken Little was right.

The Operator
07-01-2019, 09:28 PM
Does David didn't have his best stuff tonight refer to Hernandez or Bell?

Yes

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:28 PM
Well David Bell manage the horrible game tonight this is all on him

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:28 PM
It's odd. I've been as vocal a Bell detractor as we have here, but I had no issue with tonight's move. Guess it's eye of the beholder sometimes.

The Operator
07-01-2019, 09:29 PM
You’re seeing the result right now. Enjoy.

The Reds can't afford to load a pen with expensive guys.


They need to be able to develop late inning relievers. Aside from Garrett and to an extent Bob Steve they've whiffed big time.

757690
07-01-2019, 09:29 PM
You’re seeing the result right now. Enjoy.

Signing the cheap relievers was a smart move, last year. They needed to trade them at the deadline last year, and sign new ones for this year.

Depending on middle relievers to be good two seasons in a row is the cause of this.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:30 PM
It's odd. I've been as vocal a Bell detractor as we have here, but I had no issue with tonight's move. Guess it's eye of the beholder sometimes.

The overall question is why the Reds depend so heavily on David Hernandez in high leverage situations.

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:30 PM
I think the simplest explanation is that this was a case where going in it was just going be Hernandez's inning 'no matter what'. Now why Bell couldn't start getting someone hot around the time of the Grandal AB, that I do not understand. But I feel like blaming Bell alone kind of lets Hernandez off the hook for being ridiculously bad.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:30 PM
You’re seeing the result right now. Enjoy.

Aren't you the one who was praising Hernandez constantly early in the season

Roy Tucker
07-01-2019, 09:30 PM
I can understand leaving Hernandez in if this was a 12-0 beating. But this was a very winnable game and Bell apparently went to sleep. Just don’t get it.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:31 PM
Let's start this inning with an absolutely hapless AB by Iglesias. #sigh

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:31 PM
The overall question is why the Reds depend so heavily on David Hernandez in high leverage situations.
He had a good season last year, and going into tonight he had a 2.8 BB/9 and a 2.36 FIP. Is he bad because of his ERA? Because when I point to bullpen ERA I get told that ERA for relievers doesn't matter.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, poor Mahle. Hernandez owes him a few dinners for that stinker.

ukredsfan
07-01-2019, 09:32 PM
I'm not sure it's tonight's game specifically, but more just a buildup of frustration from decisions I don't understand all season. A team losing because they're not very good is one thing, but I feel like, in part at least, this team just needs someone to get out of their way and let them play ball.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:32 PM
I think the simplest explanation is that this was a case where going in it was just going be Hernandez's inning 'no matter what'. Now why Bell couldn't start getting someone hot around the time of the Grandal AB, that I do not understand. But I feel like blaming Bell alone kind of lets Hernandez off the hook for being ridiculously bad.

The problem I have with bell is he has fell in love with Hernandez All Season a treated like here is some shutdown reliever

davereds24
07-01-2019, 09:32 PM
All a reporter has to ask Bell is "Was David Hernandez your best option outside of Iglesias to face Yelich?"

malcontent
07-01-2019, 09:33 PM
Iglesias making Peraza look like a disciplined hitter.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:34 PM
Iglesias making Peraza look like a disciplined hitter.

I think reality is setting for Jose Iglesias

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:34 PM
Youíre seeing the result right now. Enjoy.

I am seeing the result of terrible managing. David Hernandez has been an absolute steal since they signed him.

Falls City Beer
07-01-2019, 09:35 PM
I don’t think bullpens are really even “plannable” if that makes sense. You either get 7-9 guys in some majority “up” years or you get a majority in “down” years. It really just seems like a roll of the dice. But offense could have been better prepared for.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:35 PM
Aren't you the one who was praising Hernandez constantly early in the season

I praise every Red when he deserves it. But as the season wears on you have to watch and adjust.

Hernandez has worn down, he hasn’t been consistent, and they still use him like he’s Mike Jackson setting up Jeff Brantley.

They need more late inning guys, period, and need to use some others in that spot.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:35 PM
I am seeing the result of terrible managing. David Hernandez has been an absolute steal since they signed him.

Well Hernandez stole the win tonight LOL

Falls City Beer
07-01-2019, 09:36 PM
I am seeing the result of terrible managing. David Hernandez has been an absolute steal since they signed him.


Idk. He hasn’t been very good this year at all. Maybe some of it is managing but that’s a stretch.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:36 PM
I praise every Red when he deserves it. But as the season wears on you have to watch and adjust.

Hernandez has worn down, he hasn’t been consistent, and they still use him like he’s Mike Jackson setting up Jeff Brantley.

They need more late inning guys, period, and need to use some others in that spot.

I totally agree with you there the front office is not a horrible job building a bullpen

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:36 PM
I think the simplest explanation is that this was a case where going in it was just going be Hernandez's inning 'no matter what'. Now why Bell couldn't start getting someone hot around the time of the Grandal AB, that I do not understand. But I feel like blaming Bell alone kind of lets Hernandez off the hook for being ridiculously bad.

Hernandez didn't have it and it was quickly obvious, and that is on him. Bell is the reason it really escalated and got out of hand. Two immediate hits should get someone moving quick in the bullpen.

ukredsfan
07-01-2019, 09:38 PM
Signing the cheap relievers was a smart move, last year. They needed to trade them at the deadline last year, and sign new ones for this year.

Depending on middle relievers to be good two seasons in a row is the cause of this.

They sign 'undervalued' relievers and once they have a little success they promptly fall in love and overvalue those same relievers.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:40 PM
I am seeing the result of terrible managing. David Hernandez has been an absolute steal since they signed him.

Maybe so, but this is today, the Reds are now trying to contend, and they use DH way too much in high leverage spots.

malcontent
07-01-2019, 09:40 PM
Hernandez didn't have it an it was quickly obvious, and that is on him. Bell is the reasons it really escalated and got out of hand. Two immediate hits should get someone moving quick in the bullpen.
I'm furious that he didn't have anyone else ready. Just no friggin excuse, I don't care what he says post-game.

Firing offense, or he should at least be sent down like a player to prove that he can finally manage a team to a .500 record.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:40 PM
They sign 'undervalued' relievers and once they have a little success they promptly fall in love and overvalue those same relievers.

you're right I think the problem is the front office is so behind the times I know you don't understand how to be proactive

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:42 PM
Idk. He hasn’t been very good this year at all. Maybe some of it is managing but that’s a stretch.

He's been pretty effective this year. His problem is that when he doesn't have it, he really doesn't have it. He's had two stretches of struggles that are surrounded by pretty much lights out pitching. He struggled against the Cubs, yet Bell put him in this game with the assumption all was well.

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:42 PM
Hernandez didn't have it and it was quickly obvious, and that is on him. Bell is the reason it really escalated and got out of hand. Two immediate hits should get someone moving quick in the bullpen.
Isn't that then overusing the bullpen? Isn't yanking a guy with a K/9 over 11.0 because of two hits "over-managing"?

I don't know man I'm disgusted and disheartened with that performance, but to me the bullpen performance of late is not malpractice by Bell or by the front office but just some natural regression. They were likely not going to remain THAT good. That's why it sucks the offense wasted so many zeroes that they had put up this year.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:42 PM
If you want to blame Bell, you get support watching Bowman pitch this inning.

He’s fresher and he’s throwing great.

Why not use him more? You have to adjust as the season goes along.

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 09:43 PM
I guess the joy of yesterday was too much for Bell to take. So many moves and then leaves Hernandez in to give the game away. Yes, we need better pitching from relievers, but letting Hernandez gives up all that shows the inexperience he has. Say what you want, but that was almost criminal.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:44 PM
Maybe so, but this is today, the Reds are now trying to contend, and they use DH way too much in high leverage spots.

I agree honestly Bell has done a lot of things with the bow pain that Dusty did and got criticized for. He puts people in rolls and those people can't pitch ever game. While I'm at it how do you go into a big series like this with one lefty. To your credit KC you've mentioned in the game Fred 2 hours before the game started

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:45 PM
Maybe so, but this is today, the Reds are now trying to contend, and they use DH way too much in high leverage spots.

I agree, but the solution to the problem isn't throwing big $$$ at volatile relief arms. They need to get some big arms in the mid minors and convert them to relief. Like we have seen a ton of clubs do across the league. Everyone doesn't have to start 120 games in the minors before they are big league ready, but that seems to be the Reds approach.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:46 PM
Bell likely didn’t want to use Iglesias or Garrett tonight.

He allowed Mahle to throw 102 pitches. He left Hernandez in too long.

They needed a better plan for the late innings.

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 09:47 PM
Isn't that then overusing the bullpen? Isn't yanking a guy with a K/9 over 11.0 because of two hits "over-managing"?

I don't know man I'm disgusted and disheartened with that performance, but to me the bullpen performance of late is not malpractice by Bell or by the front office but just some natural regression. They were likely not going to remain THAT good. That's why it sucks the offense wasted so many zeroes that they had put up this year.

I was saying that two immediate hits that should get a guy up and getting loose. So if Hernandez continues to struggle against the next couple hitters you are ready to make a move.

Especially when the guy you put in gave up runs in his last two appearances.

Falls City Beer
07-01-2019, 09:49 PM
Bell’s just going to have to get comfortable using the 6-7 guys out of the pen. Results be damned at this point.

JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:50 PM
Isn't that then overusing the bullpen? Isn't yanking a guy with a K/9 over 11.0 because of two hits "over-managing"?

In a one run game in the 7th inning against a division rival you're tying to catch in the standings? No it's not over managing.

malcontent
07-01-2019, 09:50 PM
Bell likely didn’t want to use Iglesias or Garrett tonight.
8 - 2 = 6

North
07-01-2019, 09:52 PM
We got 6 outs left. Go get'em! :duel:

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:52 PM
Bell’s just going to have to get comfortable using the 6-7 guys out of the pen. Results be damned at this point.

Exactly right some of these guys fight. Moth balls on her arm because they never pitch

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 09:53 PM
I was saying that two immediate hits that should get a guy up and getting loose. So if Hernandez continues to struggle against the next couple hitters you are ready to make a move.

Basically what I was trying to say, but you did it better. It's has been a bad day, and I'm frustrated.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 09:53 PM
I agree, but the solution to the problem isn't throwing big $$$ at volatile relief arms. They need to get some big arms in the mid minors and convert them to relief. Like we have seen a ton of clubs do across the league. Everyone doesn't have to start 120 games in the minors before they are big league ready, but that seems to be the Reds approach.

The solution is to have 4 guys capable of good late inning relief. That might require spending on 2 or 3. Add in a young guy like Garrett and you have a late inning pen.

Nobody is saying spend big on eight relievers. But if you boycott the high end relief market you lose out. You get what you pay for.

Kingspoint
07-01-2019, 09:53 PM
I don't understand the logic of replacing a hitter with one that has a lower OBP when down three runs.

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:54 PM
In a one run game in the 7th inning against a division rival you're tying to catch in the standings? No it's not over managing.
Personally, I'd have used Hughes to try and get the ground ball probably before the Grandal AB and most certainly after. It's not so much this individual decision I'm defending as much as I'm mostly pointing out that Bell pretty much can't win here. Has ANYBODY in the pen been pitching especially great of late? It's a rough patch for them.

NatiRedGals
07-01-2019, 09:54 PM
Stephenson never pitches and he's being wasted when hes on hes legit closing stuff. Id rather him blow a game then a gased hernandez

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 09:55 PM
Votto with just a single, and no RBI.

#notelite

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 09:57 PM
Geno!!!!

NatiRedGals
07-01-2019, 09:57 PM
Dong shot surarez 6-5

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 09:57 PM
A. Hugh no. 2!!!!

JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:57 PM
Geno is back!

Bell leaving DH in to give up all those runs looks even worse now.

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 09:58 PM
Geno!! :jump:

Hader untouchable no more!

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 09:58 PM
What the heck happened? Left about 45 minutes ago with a 3-1 lead. Now down 6-3. Another blown lead. Jeesh....this team is just incredibly bad. If it's not the atrocious hitting, then the pitching takes a dump.

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 09:58 PM
Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds 100-Home Run Club
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Joey Votto - 277
5. Adam Dunn - 270
6. Ted Kluszewski - 251
7. George Foster - 244
8. Jay Bruce - 233
9. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
10. Eric Davis - 203
11. Barry Larkin - 198
12. Brandon Phillips - 191
13. Vada Pinson - 186
14. Wally Post - 172
15. Gus Bell - 160
16. Joe Morgan - 152
16. Pete Rose - 152
18. Lee May - 147
19. Dan Driessen - 133
20. Reggie Sanders - 125
21. Ernie Lombardi - 120
22. Sean Casey - 118
23. Eugenio Suarez - 113
24. Frank McCormick - 110
25. Todd Frazier - 108
26. Dave Parker - 107
27. Chris Sabo - 104
28. Dave Concepcion - 101

JCM11
07-01-2019, 09:58 PM
Most LF don't make that play.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 09:59 PM
Great to see someone hit a bomb off of hader. Heís usually lights out

NatiRedGals
07-01-2019, 09:59 PM
Let's lose by 1 again!

Rolando
07-01-2019, 09:59 PM
Come on scooter start hitting

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:00 PM
Suarez with another bomb, but Reds still down 1 with 3 outs to go.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 10:00 PM
Come on scooter start hitting

That should have been a hit, he used the whole field, can’t complain too much about that one.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:01 PM
Most LF don't make that play.

Shaded against a LH batter on a ball like that, you won't see many better catches out there.

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:01 PM
Let's lose by 1 again!

Remember that inexperienced manager we used to have all those one-run losses? Here we are again.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 10:01 PM
This one will come down to Puig v Hader.

Maybe.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:02 PM
That should have been a hit, he used the whole field, can’t complain too much about that one. you're right they just do them to get a big head they don't have time for him to shake the rust off

NatiRedGals
07-01-2019, 10:02 PM
Remember that inexperienced manager we used to have all those one-run losses? Here we are again.
Ugh no more no more

- - - Updated - - -

Ugh Now he uses Stephenson

malcontent
07-01-2019, 10:04 PM
This one will come down to Puig v Hader.

Maybe.
Bell used Peraza already, so he may have no choice but to use Puig.

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 10:05 PM
The solution is to have 4 guys capable of good late inning relief. That might require spending on 2 or 3. Add in a young guy like Garrett and you have a late inning pen.

Nobody is saying spend big on eight relievers. But if you boycott the high end relief market you lose out. You get what you pay for.

Give me recent examples of high end relievers that have been worth pricey FA contracts and I can probably give you 3 more guys for each that were total wastes of money. The Reds don't have the luxury of swinging and missing on $12M relievers.

North
07-01-2019, 10:05 PM
DP time.

Edit:. Rats...

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:06 PM
Welp. So much for that.

NatiRedGals
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
Ha ha ha The Joker

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
There goes the 1 run loss.

Wonderful Monds
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
Give me recent examples of high end relievers that have been worth pricey FA contracts and I can probably give you 3 more guys for each that were total wastes of money. The Reds don't have the luxury of swinging and missing on $12M relievers.

I would have definitely given Kimbrel the contract the Cubs did.

JCM11
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
I can't believe that went out. Memo to Bob Steve if you're going to throw Yelich a high fastball on 0-2 miss about a foot out of the zone.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
We can't beat anyone in this division but the Cubs.

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
I have no idea how Yelich just hit that ball out.

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
Game. They got the mound so messed up, nobody can pitch.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
Ha ha ha The Joker

Stephenson did a pretty awful job too so I guess everybody's equal

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 10:07 PM
Stephenson never pitches and he's being wasted when hes on hes legit closing stuff. Id rather him blow a game then a gased hernandez
hmmm

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 10:08 PM
I can't believe that went out. Memo to Bob Steve if you're going to throw Yelich a high fastball on 0-2 miss about a foot out of the zone.

That pitch was pretty close to a foot out of the zone.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 10:08 PM
GABP has given Milwaukee 2 runs tonight[emoji849]

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:08 PM
I have no idea how Yelich just hit that ball out.

It was a bad 0-2 pitch

JCM11
07-01-2019, 10:08 PM
The bullpen is just getting hammered lately.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:09 PM
On a lighter note, Cubs fans descended upon Pittsburgh tonight to get handed a 16-5 ass-whipping.

NatiRedGals
07-01-2019, 10:09 PM
hmmm

Doesn't change anything he didn't blow the game ;)

50YrRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:09 PM
It's time for some new (to the Reds) players. Offensive and pitching.

Big Klu
07-01-2019, 10:10 PM
And now, an E1.

malcontent
07-01-2019, 10:11 PM
This is what happens when you're facing the Brewers, and you've got only one LHP.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:11 PM
On a lighter note, Cubs fans descended upon Pittsburgh tonight to get handed a 16-5 ass-whipping.

Make it 18-5 on Josh Bell's 3rd HR of the night.

Griffey012
07-01-2019, 10:12 PM
It was a bad 0-2 pitch

That pitch is hit for a home run probably .001% of the time. Casali called for an up and out fastball, Stephenson located it way up and out of the zone, somehow Yelich still hit it out.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 10:13 PM
Wonder if Stephenson is fully healthy. Or if he got enough rehab time. Hasn’t been too good lately.

NCReds
07-01-2019, 10:14 PM
Time for a walk-off slam

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:14 PM
That pitch is hit for a home run probably .001% of the time. Casali called for an up and out fastball, Stephenson located it way up and out of the zone, somehow Yelich still hit it out.

Oh well I'm sure you're right Yelich is a great hitter

mhs95_06
07-01-2019, 10:15 PM
This is what happens when you're facing the Brewers, and you've got only one LHP.

Yes, so why was this the day they let Duke go? Was he not ready to pitch? Doesn't Hughes historically get lefties out very well for a righty? Why haven't we seen him much over the last 4 days?

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 10:16 PM
Yes, so why was this the day they let Duke go? Was he not ready to pitch? Doesn't Hughes historically get lefties out very well for a righty? Why haven't we seen him much over the last 4 days?
We saw him Saturday, remember? Didn't go great.

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:17 PM
We saw him Saturday, remember? Didn't go great.
True but wasn't it another one of Hernandez messes he was trying to clean up?

mhs95_06
07-01-2019, 10:18 PM
We saw him Saturday, remember? Didn't go great.

He's more effective with the sinker when he pitches more.

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:18 PM
Bullpen tonight 3 IP, 6H, 5ER, 4BB, 3SO. Have mercy.

Kc61
07-01-2019, 10:18 PM
Yes, so why was this the day they let Duke go? Was he not ready to pitch? Doesn't Hughes historically get lefties out very well for a righty? Why haven't we seen him much over the last 4 days?

Bell’s staff doesn’t see Hughes as a late inning reliever. He tends to be used for longer stints in the middle innings.

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 10:19 PM
He's more effective with the sinker when he pitches more.
I'd have used him tonight, just seems hard to overlook that particular result.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:19 PM
Bullpen tonight 3 IP, 6H, 5ER, 4BB, 3SO. Have mercy.

Good lord...

mhs95_06
07-01-2019, 10:19 PM
And Bell is messing up trying to use Hughes just against righties.

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:20 PM
Takes a special level of suck to allow 10 baserunners in 3 innings.

- - - Updated - - -

Philly Phil gets the tying run to the plate.

"So you're saying there's a chance???"

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 10:21 PM
I'd put Farmer in for Peraza here

BluegrassRedleg
07-01-2019, 10:21 PM
The baseball gods owe us a cheapy HR.

- - - Updated - - -

Send up a feeb to hit there, you get a feebish grounder.

JCM11
07-01-2019, 10:23 PM
Well if Bell hadn't taken a nap in the 7th we might have won this game.

Tom Servo
07-01-2019, 10:24 PM
I'd put Farmer in for Peraza here
Didn't like the call to let Peraza hit there at all, Farmer's got more pop. If you're worried about "what about extra innings", you deal with that after you've tied the game.

Anyway that one sucked. Bullpen has been a hinderance going back a little over a week now to that series in Milwaukee. Don't need them to be amazing but they can't be this bad at such a critical time right before the break.

mhs95_06
07-01-2019, 10:24 PM
Going to be very difficult for the Reds to win either the Milw or Clev series!

North
07-01-2019, 10:25 PM
Tomorrow, tomorrow, there's always tomorrow, it's only a day away. :bang:

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:25 PM
Thanks David Bell for doing the absolute worst job managing you could have done tonight

WVRedsFan
07-01-2019, 10:25 PM
You can bet Jim or Pic, whoever "interviews" Bell, will avoid that 7th inning question.

malcontent
07-01-2019, 10:25 PM
I'd put Farmer in for Peraza here
Bell opts for the Human White Flag instead.

Wheelhouse
07-01-2019, 10:27 PM
Well, I've been saying for a while now, Hernandez is a 50 appearance pitcher. No more. Bell has over used him

Rolando
07-01-2019, 10:27 PM
Didn't like the call to let Peraza hit there at all, Farmer's got more pop. If you're worried about "what about extra innings", you deal with that after you've tied the game.

Anyway that one sucked. Bullpen has been a hinderance going back a little over a week now to that series in Milwaukee. Don't need them to be amazing but they can't be this bad at such a critical time right before the break.

One of the problems is David Bell ever managed to the eighth inning and pinch hit for Winker. The other thing I would have done I wouldn't saved Puig to be the tying run