Senzel Centerfield

[mikemo14]

Wondering if the Reds will send Senzel to Fall League to get more work in center field. IMO he has done a great job for the most part especially considering he was basically thrown into the fire with only 25 games or so in the minors. Have noticed lately a few mental errors like allowing Marte to take second on a fly the other night by not getting into position to throw and a horrible throw to the plate where he fired it off balance like an infielder. I'm excited to see how good he can become but certainly still a work in progress.

[CaiGuy]

Honest question...do MLB teams over send full-time MLB regulars to the AFL? I don't know but it sure doesn't sound familiar.

He is going to be pretty fatigued by the end of nearly a full season...they need to shut him down when the season ends until Spring training.

[JaxRed]

Odds of him going to AFL are about .001%.

[SomeCallMeTim]

To be honest, I’m more concerned that Senzel won’t be more that a .275 hitter with 10-15 HR tops.

Too early maybe, but I don’t see future all-star in the making like we did with Larkin, Davis, etc.

I have advocated resigning SS Iglesias, but I would keep Galvis and give 2B to Senzel if it helped him to be the hitter we thought he could be and we could get a real CF.

[Hillsdale87]

Odds of him going to AFL are about .001%.

You think they're that high? [emoji1]


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[RedsRocker]

They usually send MLB players to the Instructional League to work on a positional change.

[Tracy Jones]

To be honest, I’m more concerned that Senzel won’t be more that a .275 hitter with 10-15 HR tops.

Too early maybe, but I don’t see future all-star in the making like we did with Larkin, Davis, etc.

I have advocated resigning SS Iglesias, but I would keep Galvis and give 2B to Senzel if it helped him to be the hitter we thought he could be and we could get a real CF.

Larkin his first 2 years had an OPS+ of 95 and 76. Can we give Senzel at least another full season before we label him anything? Particularly a bust?

[Kinsm]

Honest question...do MLB teams over send full-time MLB regulars to the AFL? I don't know but it sure doesn't sound familiar.

He is going to be pretty fatigued by the end of nearly a full season...they need to shut him down when the season ends until Spring training.

Before this year, mlb clubs couldn't. Technically the Reds could this season, but they aren't going to.

[GAC]

Larkin his first 2 years had an OPS+ of 95 and 76. Can we give Senzel at least another full season before we label him anything? Particularly a bust?

Yep. Go look at a lot of great players (including Reds) who had so-so rookie seasons (or two) before they "matured", got comfortable, and took off.

As far as CF? 2B? Looking at all the times this organization has jerked Senzel around position-wise .... never say never. But then, who would be the answer in CF for '20? It's not a production position you experiment with IMO.

[PuffyPig]

Odds of him going to AFL are about .001%.

I'll take the under on that one.

[CaiGuy]

To be honest, I’m more concerned that Senzel won’t be more that a .275 hitter with 10-15 HR tops.

Too early maybe, but I don’t see future all-star in the making like we did with Larkin, Davis, etc.


Just remember that Larkin had a .689 OPS over his first two seasons.

By no means saying Senzel is a future HOF, but you should always keep that stuff in mind when looking a rooker. Memories get fuzzy after 30 years.

[GAC]

This is why you show patience with this rookie.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/eugenio-suarez-curt-casali-nick-senzel-home-runs-vs-marlins


Several weeks ago, Reds rookie Nick Senzel and hitting coaches Turner Ward and Donnie Ecker discussed changing his hitting approach, and the center fielder embraced the advice they gave. A very rough August tested that resolve, creating doubt and discomfort at the plate.

Then nights like Tuesday happen. Senzel reached base four times and contributed a home run and three RBIs as the Reds took an 8-5 victory over the Marlins. He came in batting .195 in August, but he reached safely in seven on his last eight plate appearances over two games at Miami. Changing midseason at the big league level is no easy feat, especially for a heralded player who has been a top prospect since he was the second overall pick in the 2016 Draft.

I guess what it comes down to is - what does one expect from Senzel? He's a solid prospect, but fans built this kid up to the point he could walk on water. He's so talented we can even throw him into a key position (CF) with no experience. Just get him up here. This kid catches on fast.

My point is simply this .... does anyone take into consideration #1 that these are kids (IMO), and the pressure that's put upon them by the media/fans can weigh on them as they try to adjust at this level? I have a lot of admiration for Senzel, looking at all he's gone through the last year or so.... getting shuffled around and trying to learn not one new position, but two. And again, the one he ends up in is the one he has minimal experience at (minors), and none at this level. And on top of that were the injuries, as well as his struggles with vertigo.

The kid's gone through a lot IMO. I think this rookie has had a good season (all things considered). But if fans think he's going to somehow be a Big Bopper in this lineup, IMO, I think they'll be sorely disappointed. Many try to lay that label on Votto too, but in reality his career numbers say other wise (avg 24 Hrs/season).

I see Senzel as an .800+ OPS player. I think he's a future .300 hitter who'll carry a high OB%, limited Hr power (15-20), but will excel in XBH. I'll take that at the top of my order.

[Alabama]

This is why you show patience with this rookie.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/eugenio-suarez-curt-casali-nick-senzel-home-runs-vs-marlins



I guess what it comes down to is - what does one expect from Senzel? He's a solid prospect, but fans built this kid up to the point he could walk on water. He's so talented we can even throw him into a key position (CF) with no experience. Just get him up here. This kid catches on fast.

My point is simply this .... does anyone take into consideration #1 that these are kids (IMO), and the pressure that's put upon them by the media/fans can weigh on them as they try to adjust at this level? I have a lot of admiration for Senzel, looking at all he's gone through the last year or so.... getting shuffled around and trying to learn not one new position, but two. And again, the one he ends up in is the one he has minimal experience at (minors), and none at this level. And on top of that were the injuries, as well as his struggles with vertigo.

The kid's gone through a lot IMO. I think this rookie has had a good season (all things considered). But if fans think he's going to somehow be a Big Bopper in this lineup, IMO, I think they'll be sorely disappointed. Many try to lay that label on Votto too, but in reality his career numbers say other wise (avg 24 Hrs/season).

I see Senzel as an .800+ OPS player. I think he's a future .300 hitter who'll carry a high OB%, limited Hr power (15-20), but will excel in XBH. I'll take that at the top of my order.

That’s a bit dramatic. I don’t think anyone here is writing him off. We are all fans and need him to be great. He has held his own.....but it’s not too much to ask for more out of him this year. He was a top 5 ranked prospect, a lot older than nearly all other top guys. Yet he’s not even among the top 10-15 producing rookies.
This franchise has really created some defeatist attitudes

[RedTeamGo!]

That’s a bit dramatic. I don’t think anyone here is writing him off. We are all fans and need him to be great. He has held his own.....but it’s not too much to ask for more out of him this year. He was a top 5 ranked prospect, a lot older than nearly all other top guys. Yet he’s not even among the top 10-15 producing rookies.
This franchise has really created some defeatist attitudes

Which stat are you basing that off of? And who cares about top 10-15?

I’ll tell you what: I’ll bet you $10,000 right now Senzel will have a better career than Aristides Aquino and Josh Van Meter.

You gonna take that bet?

[DocRed]

2 good games in a row for him...maybe the stance change is the real deal?

[Chip R]

2 good games in a row for him...maybe the stance change is the real deal?

Or the Marlins are the cure for what's ailing him.

[cumberlandreds]

Or the Marlins are the cure for what's ailing him.

I suspect a little of both.

[Alabama]

Which stat are you basing that off of? And who cares about top 10-15?

I’ll tell you what: I’ll bet you $10,000 right now Senzel will have a better career than Aristides Aquino and Josh Van Meter.

You gonna take that bet?

Basing what off of? Other rookies having better years? Just about every stat there is.
Why would I take that bet? The fact you even make that hypothetical shows you have no clue what you are talking about and don’t comprehend my post either. Stay in your own lane, that post is ignorant

[RedTeamGo!]

Basing what off of? Other rookies having better years? Just about every stat there is.
Why would I take that bet? The fact you even make that hypothetical shows you have no clue what you are talking about and don’t comprehend my post either. Stay in your own lane, that post is ignorant

Complaining about Senzel’s rookie stats not being elite is ignorant. He’s fine.

My point with Aquino and JVM is pretty clear. They are both performing better than Senzel. Whoopdy do. It’s a SSS made even less meaningful by being their first year in the majors.

Handwringing over Senzel’s .769 OPS in his rookie season is absurd IMO.

[RedTeamGo!]

I find it humorous that a poster who recently recklessly stated on this forum an 18 year old prospect might be missing time on the field because of “disciplinary reasons” based on literally nothing is calling a post of mine ignorant. Came out a few days ago the kid is dealing with a quad injury.

Haven’t seen you own up to that garbage yet, bro.

[cumberlandreds]

I find it humorous that a poster who recently recklessly stated on this forum an 18 year old prospect might be missing time on the field because of “disciplinary reasons” based on literally nothing is calling a post of mine ignorant. Came out a few days ago the kid is dealing with a quad injury.

Haven’t seen you own up to that garbage yet, bro.

You and Bama need to take this offline. Any more outbursts from either of you and it will be the end of posting for quite a while.

Redszone Management

[Hillsdale87]

This is why you show patience with this rookie.
I guess what it comes down to is - what does one expect from Senzel? He's a solid prospect, but fans built this kid up to the point he could walk on water. He's so talented we can even throw him into a key position (CF) with no experience. Just get him up here. This kid catches on fast.


I think this is why some, including me, are a bit disappointed in Senzel's performance this year. He's not a disaster, just not an impact player. There was so much hand-wringing about how irresponsible it was for the Reds to send him down to AAA, that it was a sign that they were prioritizing years of control over winning this year and screwing over Senzel for service time, etc. And the reality is that the Reds decision to send him down was fine. Obviously Schebler ended up being a disaster this year, but there was no reason to expect that, and Senzel's performance this year is below every Schebler season before 2019.

That said, I still have plenty of confidence in Senzel long term. He's shown encouraging signs, and he's recently talked about changing his swing to set himself up better long term. I assume that's in an effort to add power. If some of his relative struggles this year are a result of getting comfortable with his swing, that's a worthwhile sacrifice for a guy who will hopefully be an important part of the Reds success over the next 6+ season.

[stein1214]

Here's another question. Are we looking at Senzel's numbers as "disappointing" because of how well Aquino and JVM have performed? You have to remember that both of those guys have logged a lot more time down in the minors than Senzel has, so they're probably a lot farther along in their development as hitters. With all of the injuries that Senzel dealt with, he had the equivalent of less than 2 full seasons in the minors. Give him time.

[DocRed]

Here's another question. Are we looking at Senzel's numbers as "disappointing" because of how well Aquino and JVM have performed? You have to remember that both of those guys have logged a lot more time down in the minors than Senzel has, so they're probably a lot farther along in their development as hitters. With all of the injuries that Senzel dealt with, he had the equivalent of less than 2 full seasons in the minors. Give him time.

I think its more because of the unusually vast amounts of Godly rookies and 2nd years recently like Alonso, Tatis, Acuna, Soto, Gleybor, Vlad etc

[Mitri]

Here's another question. Are we looking at Senzel's numbers as "disappointing" because of how well Aquino and JVM have performed? .

No. Senzel's rookie year was a disappointment, at least to me. It was before those two emerged, and it still is. It hasn't been a disaster by any stretch, but let's call a spade a spade.

It may not be fair to Nick, but the Reds need him to be a true impact player, and soon, if they plan on becoming a playoff-caliber team.

[UPRedsFan]

No. Senzel's rookie year was a disappointment, at least to me. It was before those two emerged, and it still is. It hasn't been a disaster by any stretch, but let's call a spade a spade.

It may not be fair to Nick, but the Reds need him to be a true impact player, and soon, if they plan on becoming a playoff-caliber team.

He's getting lots of ab's, he's learning and adjusting. He'll be an impact player next year. Barring injury, we can count on it.

[Tracy Jones]

No. Senzel's rookie year was a disappointment, at least to me. It was before those two emerged, and it still is. It hasn't been a disaster by any stretch, but let's call a spade a spade.

It may not be fair to Nick, but the Reds need him to be a true impact player, and soon, if they plan on becoming a playoff-caliber team.

Your expectations were too high then. Most rookies aren’t that good. When you throw in the fact that he missed a large chunk of last season, then I think expecting him to be a world beater this year was too high of an expectation. If he stinks in year 2 and year 3? Then yeah, there’s a problem. I’m not worried yet. My expectations for his rookie year weren’t that high.

[Tom Servo]

Senzel has had a bad August, but I’ve got this crazy concept that maybe we could let both this month finish and the next one too and thus have a complete season before we decide how to judge his complete season.

We could probably pull up the Senzel expectations thread from the spring. I believe I said I thought he’d finish with at least a .775 OPS, but probably do better than that. Right now he’s at .769. I would this consider his season as an extremely mild underperformance to date, but not anything to fret about yet and the season isn’t over.

[herbdizzle]

I wouldn't be surprised if Senzel's pedestrian output is due to fatigue from never playing a full season.

[InsaneinthBrame]

Well hitting wise he is close to what I expected a little below. My disappointment comes from poor base running. The defensive improvement had been lacking.
I expected his hit took to be better. His ability to hit lefties is excellent. But his struggles vs righties has been a surprise.
His hitting profile is looking like early drew Stubbs for better or worse

[cumberlandreds]

I wouldn't be surprised if Senzel's pedestrian output is due to fatigue from never playing a full season.

Exactly. I think you will find that most rookies take a dip at the end of their first season in the big leagues.

[InsaneinthBrame]

I wouldn't be surprised if Senzel's pedestrian output is due to fatigue from never playing a full season.

You do realize that senzel is not even close to playing a full year. We have over a month left and he missed a month with injury. He has played barely over a half a season and if he is fatigued that is not a good sign.

[GAC]

That’s a bit dramatic. I don’t think anyone here is writing him off.

I didn't say anyone was writing him off. The issue is expectations.


We are all fans and need him to be great. He has held his own.....but it’s not too much to ask for more out of him this year. He was a top 5 ranked prospect

"He held his own" - that's all that mattered for me with Senzel this year (looking at what all he went through). He was also working with a new hitting coach. Did you happen to read the article I posted?

We knew we had something in Castillo, showed patience, yet didn't expect him to set the world on fire right away. So why with Senzel? All being a Top 5 Prospect says is that he was in the class of "elite" minor league players. IMO, that's it. And that's the approach I've always taken because success at one level does not mean success at the next. All it means is you've earned your shot kid. There's been a lot of great players who didn't take off - or live up to fan's expectations - till they been in the league a couple years or so. And there's also been plenty who were busts or never lived up to the hype. IMO, fans hype these top prospects too much, meaning, placing lofty expectations on them right out of the gate. IMO, unfair.

I ask you, and those who see Senzel's '19 season as a disappointment ... What more did you expect out of the rookie this season?



This franchise has really created some defeatist attitudes

I have no idea my friend what this is suppose to mean? LOL