Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

[Ron Madden]

Reds
VanMeter RF
Votto 1B
Suarez 3B
Barnhart C
Galvis 2B
Iglesias SS
Dietrich LF
O’Grady CF
DeSclafani P

D’backs
Locastro CF
Rojas CF
Marte 2B
Escobar 3B
Lamb 1B
Almonte RF
Ahmed SS
Avila C
Leake P

[Ron Madden]

The Reds will wear the 1995 throwback uniforms today

[Ironman92]

Reds will handle Leake

VanMeter, Votto, Galvis and Tucker will have extra base hits/HR

Dietrich might even get him

[Ironman92]

Leake should finish in the top 10 of innings pitcher of this decade

[Big Klu]

Today, the Reds are wearing the 1995 throwbacks. The Reds were 85-59 in 1995, winning the NL Central by 9 games over the Astros. (The season had been shortened to 144 games due to the lockout at the beginning of the season.) The Reds swept the Dodgers 3-0 in the NLDS before being swept 4-0 by the eventual World Champion Braves in the NLCS. The Reds were managed by Davey Johnson.

On September 8, 1995, the Reds lost to the Rockies, 10-5 at Coors Field in Denver. The Reds starting lineup that evening:

Barry Larkin ss
Darren Lewis cf
Ron Gant lf
Reggie Sanders rf
Hal Morris 1b
Eddie Taubensee c
Bret Boone 2b
Jeff Branson 3b
Pete Schourek p

[Wonderful Monds]

Ok so what’s up with Senzel

[Tom Servo]

Ok so what’s up with Senzel
Honestly get the impression they're shutting him down for his various injuries and struggles.

[Big Klu]

Ok so what’s up with Senzel

Shoulder problem. He can pinch-run, but evidently can't hit or play the field.

[Ironman92]

Honestly get the impression they're shutting him down for his various injuries and struggles.

Yeah, that wall collision definitely could cause some decent injuries that linger and affect his play.

[757690]

Jimmy Herget recalled today.

[bullseye]

Shoulder problem. He can pinch-run, but evidently can't hit or play the field.

If it isn't the shoulder, it'll be something else.

[757690]

Today, the Reds are wearing the 1995 throwbacks. The Reds were 85-59 in 1995, winning the NL Central by 9 games over the Astros. (The season had been shortened to 144 games due to the lockout at the beginning of the season.) The Reds swept the Dodgers 3-0 in the NLDS before being swept 4-0 by the eventual World Champion Braves in the NLCS. The Reds were managed by Davey Johnson.

On September 8, 1995, the Reds lost to the Rockies, 10-5 at Coors Field in Denver. The Reds starting lineup that evening:

Barry Larkin ss
Darren Lewis cf
Ron Gant lf
Reggie Sanders rf
Hal Morris 1b
Eddie Taubensee c
Bret Boone 2b
Jeff Branson 3b
Pete Schourek p

1995, the last year the Reds won a postseason series.

[Big Klu]

Seven uniform numbers in today's starting lineup were worn in 1995:

#7 -- Eugenio Suarez and Darren Lewis
#16 -- Tucker Barnhart and Reggie Sanders
#17 -- Josh VanMeter and Mark Lewis
#19 -- Joey Votto and Jerome Walton
#22 -- Derek Dietrich and Thomas Howard
#28 -- Anthony DeSclafani and Lenny Harris
#34 -- Brian O'Grady and Pete Smith/Dave Burba

[Ron Madden]

Injury updates on Senzel, Winker and Wood.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/nick-senzel-jesse-winker-alex-wood-injury-update

[757690]

These 1995 uniforms are even more embarrassing than I remember them being.

[Big Klu]

There are only six players still on the Reds who were teammates of Mike Leake:

Joey Votto
Tucker Barnhart
Anthony DeSclafani
Raisel Iglesias
Michael Lorenzen
Eugenio Suarez

And DeSclafani, Iglesias, Lorenzen, and Suarez were all in their first year with the Reds when Leake was in his final season.

[Ironman92]

There are only six players still on the Reds who were teammates of Mike Leake:

Joey Votto
Tucker Barnhart
Anthony DeSclafani
Raisel Iglesias
Michael Lorenzen
Eugenio Suarez

And DeSclafani, Iglesias, Lorenzen, and Suarez were all in their first year with the Reds when Leake was in his final season.

1800 innings pitched, 104 wins

[KittyDuran]

Mike Leake ... sigh [emoji76]


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[Ironman92]

Shift got Votto

Edit not a shift but 2nd way deep and over

[Ironman92]

Interesting Dbacks don’t shift when Leake pitches

[mbgrayson]

1800 innings pitched, 104 wins

Leake is making a salary of $16,000,000 this year, $5 million of which the Cardinals are paying.

[50YrRedsFan]

Where have the clean cut players gone? Many of these guys look like street thugs from a back alley.

[Ironman92]

Lol, the CF blew that. That ball has to be caught.

[Ironman92]

Leake is making a salary of $16,000,000 this year, $5 million of which the Cardinals are paying.

Good for him. Carved out a nice career

[Tom Servo]

Where have the clean cut players gone? Many of these guys look like street thugs from a back alley.
cool

[50YrRedsFan]

The story of the 2019 Reds: LOB

[757690]

My guess they overrule the call. Suarez never caught the ball.

[DocRed]

Suarez's D has sucked this year....

[RedseatHR]

I think they botched these uniforms. They’ve applied the 1969-1992 font size to these. I believe they went to a standard letter font size for names in 1993 going forward

[Big Klu]

OK, my opinions on the 1995 uniforms:

Caps: OK. I've never really been a fan of the pinstripes, but the 1995 cap was meant to be an homage to the 1961 cap, but with a wishbone-C. (I do like white caps, but with a solid white crown like those worn in the late 50's.) The C is a little larger than it was back then, though -- I have a 1993 home cap (which is identical to the 1995 cap), and the C on that cap is the same size as the C on the old BRM caps. The red helmets are an accurate look, though -- the 1993-98 Reds wore red batting helmets both home and away.

Jerseys: OK. Again, the sleeveless uniform was brought back after the Reds wore sleeveless throwbacks for a couple of games in 1991 and 1992, and fan response was positive. The jersey was a new design that was a sort of homage to the uniforms of the 60's. The red "C-Reds" logo with white negative space took some getting used to, as it was opposite to the white "C-Reds" logo with red negative space that had been used for the previous 25 years or so. The big white C on the left sleeve of the red undershirts is accurate, but not every player has one. Also, the big font for the names on the back is wrong. It is accurate for the BRM uniforms of the 70's, but the Reds had gone to a smaller font for the names on the backs in the 90's.

Pants: OK. Not a fan of pinstripes, but they are accurate for the period.

Socks: OK at best. The Reds still were wearing stirrups in 1995, but only a few players are showing any sock at all.

Overall: Just OK. They are pretty much accurate to what the Reds wore in 1995. I have never really cared for pinstripes, but I also never really hated the 1993-98 uniforms. They got points from me for trying something new by going to a button-up uniform and trying a sleeveless vest, but it never really popped. A for effort, but overall average at best.

(Actually I disliked the 1993-98 road uniforms much more than the home unis. Sleeved road uniforms when the home jersey is a vest, and pinstripes on gray uniforms is just wrong. And the numbers on the front of the jersey were on the wrong side!)

[Larry Schuler]

cool

He has a point. Everyone on the field looks remarkably similar to the baseball furies from the Warriors.

[Ironman92]

Yikes

I like DD but I feel embarrassed for him a bit. Fortunately he’s a millionaire so he’ll be ok...but geesh

[Ironman92]

He has a point. Everyone on the field looks remarkably similar to the baseball furies from the Warriors.

Who does Iglesias and Votto resemble?

[Big Klu]

Where have the clean cut players gone? Many of these guys look like street thugs from a back alley.

Where have all the clean cut players gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the clean cut players gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the clean cut players gone?
Clubs have DFAed them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

[gagliano]

The Reds will wear the 1995 throwback uniforms today

nooooo! this team has no uniform identity anymore.

- - - Updated - - -


Reds
VanMeter RF
Votto 1B
Suarez 3B
Barnhart C
Galvis 2B
Iglesias SS
Dietrich LF
O’Grady CF
DeSclafani P

D’backs
Locastro CF
Rojas CF
Marte 2B
Escobar 3B
Lamb 1B
Almonte RF
Ahmed SS
Avila C
Leake P

you could pretty much swap pitchers before the game and not even notice. lifetime .500, 4.50 era guys.

[gagliano]

Where have the clean cut players gone? Many of these guys look like street thugs from a back alley.

i like it looks like 70s before players went all neo nazi with haircuts ( basically all the yankee players).

[Ironman92]

The strike zone is higher than it has been in years. Without that box we’d be appalled at so many strikes up and above the zone. There have been so many called that I expect it to be called.

[Ironman92]

Votto bloops a single over SS

[RedseatHR]

43! Geno!

[Ironman92]

Suarez gonna get him

[Ron Madden]

Two Run Bomb for The Great BamGeno!!!

[Ironman92]

Suarez gonna get him

Again, I’m 90 seconds behind on my Fox Sports Go App.

Next pitch he did what I said

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds 100-Home Run Club
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Joey Votto - 283
5. Adam Dunn - 270
6. Ted Kluszewski - 251
7. George Foster - 244
8. Jay Bruce - 233
9. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
10. Eric Davis - 203
11. Barry Larkin - 198
12. Brandon Phillips - 191
13. Vada Pinson - 186
14. Wally Post - 172
15. Gus Bell - 160
16. Joe Morgan - 152
16. Pete Rose - 152
18. Lee May - 147
19. Eugenio Suarez - 137
20. Dan Driessen - 133
21. Reggie Sanders - 125
22. Ernie Lombardi - 120
23. Sean Casey - 118
24. Frank McCormick - 110
25. Todd Frazier - 108
26. Dave Parker - 107
27. Chris Sabo - 104
28. Dave Concepcion - 101

[Big Klu]

nooooo! this team has no uniform identity anymore.

Hopefully, the Reds will have found their uniform identity after this year's uniform Odyssey. Go back to the 1968-71 uniforms for home and away, the 1957 home uniform for the home alternate, and the 1961 road uniform (with a wishbone-C) for the road alternate.

[RedseatHR]

Nice arm on JVM

[Big Klu]

Sam LeCure has improved a great deal on the mic since the beginning of the season. He seems a lot more comfortable.

[Ironman92]

Leake keeps coming up with runners on...he needs a DH today

Disco with the lead and Reds should add on some

[Tadasimha]

Two Run Bomb for The Great BamGeno!!!

#43 for the season. Trout and Alonzo leading MLB with 45 each and Geno now one behind Yelich and Bellinger (as of the start of the day).

[Big Klu]

O.J. Simpson was not found "innocent"; he was found "not guilty".

There is a difference.

[Ironman92]

Disco not much focus starting the innings

[RedseatHR]

Marte is just killing us this weekend. But he kills a lot of teams

[Ironman92]

Ketel Marte has become a top 10 player

[RedseatHR]

The throwback promotion this year has really reinforced my previously held belief that the Reds look better without pinstripes.

[757690]

I think they botched these uniforms. They’ve applied the 1969-1992 font size to these. I believe they went to a standard letter font size for names in 1993 going forward

Good eye. Here is the lettering from 1995 uniforms:

15266

[gagliano]

Hopefully, the Reds will have found their uniform identity after this year's uniform Odyssey. Go back to the 1968-71 uniforms for home and away, the 1957 home uniform for the home alternate, and the 1961 road uniform (with a wishbone-C) for the road alternate.

yeh...love the 68-71 look and the late 70s.

[Big Klu]

At least none of the players went bare-armed with the sleeveless vests. Nobody on the 1995 team did that.

[RedseatHR]

yeh...love the 68-71 look and the late 70s.

Agree. Take that 68-71 uniform and make the letters and numbers standard sized and they’re good to go. I could live with small sleeve stripes and a patch. No headspoon piping or anything like that

[Ironman92]

Amir is due to be dominant

[Ironman92]

Nice catch by OGrady...ball strangely tailed back to him some but good jump and catch

[Ironman92]

Great play by Galvis. Marte blistered that 3-0 pitch

Good enough Amir and Dbacks let Leake hit and he’s due to give up another bloop and blast

[Ironman92]

Here we go....Leake has had 5 potential wins blown this season.

I smell #6

[RedseatHR]

Welsh is making good points about this pitchers balking

[50YrRedsFan]

Reds have 7 hits...what a juggernaut! :eek:

[texasdave]

It would be nice to see Votto get his OPS up to .800 before the end of the season.

[The Operator]

Have been busy in the yard and checked online to see the score. Saw Tucker Barnhart hitting cleanup.


I'm shocked we have 2 runs. Dick & Nick better have one hell of a plan together to fix this offense, and bullpen too for that matter.

[50YrRedsFan]

It would be nice to see Votto get his OPS up to .800 before the end of the season.

What's the possibility of Votto retiring after the season?

[Ironman92]

Suarez will get Sherfy, he’s seen his crap

[RedseatHR]

44!!

[Ron Madden]

Geno ties this baby up 3-3

[Ironman92]

God I’m on fire today

[The Operator]

Thank god for Eugenio Suarez

[Dat dude BP]

Suarez is such a damn beast. I really hope they management builds around him.

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds 100-Home Run Club
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Joey Votto - 283
5. Adam Dunn - 270
6. Ted Kluszewski - 251
7. George Foster - 244
8. Jay Bruce - 233
9. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
10. Eric Davis - 203
11. Barry Larkin - 198
12. Brandon Phillips - 191
13. Vada Pinson - 186
14. Wally Post - 172
15. Gus Bell - 160
16. Joe Morgan - 152
16. Pete Rose - 152
18. Lee May - 147
19. Eugenio Suarez - 138
20. Dan Driessen - 133
21. Reggie Sanders - 125
22. Ernie Lombardi - 120
23. Sean Casey - 118
24. Frank McCormick - 110
25. Todd Frazier - 108
26. Dave Parker - 107
27. Chris Sabo - 104
28. Dave Concepcion - 101

[gagliano]

It would be nice to see Votto get his OPS up to .800 before the end of the season.

rather see him get .300 BA

[The Operator]

Iglesias in a tie game.

*Crosses fingers*

[Big Klu]

6-4-yessiree-3!

[The Operator]

Phew

- - - Updated - - -

Was pretty legit scared of Iggy facing Marte

[Ron Madden]

rather see him get .300 BA

LOL You ain't got a lick o sense

[Ironman92]

Bad scouting on Peraza

[The Operator]

If nothing else, Baker Mayfield throwing 3 picks en route to a 30 point butt whipping at the hands of The Titans has me in a good mood right now.

Been hearing tons of trash talk from my Browns fan friends all winter. Can't wait for work tomorrow.

[adkindo]

Lorenzen is the man!!!

[Ron Madden]

Lorenzen Walks It Off!!!

REDS WIN!!!

[The Operator]

Lorenzen!!


Walk off single!! Reds win!!!

[adkindo]

If nothing else, Baker Mayfield throwing 3 picks en route to a 30 point butt whipping at the hands of The Titans has me in a good mood right now.

Been hearing tons of trash talk from my Browns fan friends all winter. Can't wait for work tomorrow.

right.....felt like all that Browns hype came crashing down today

[Ironman92]

LOL You ain't got a lick o sense

Votto’s other numbers would be great though

[Ironman92]

Lorenzen [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

[The Operator]

right.....felt like all that Browns hype came crashing down today

Indeed. I've never seen anything like the amount of hype they got this winter from all sorts of media outlets but especially their fans. Hopefully today was a little dose of humility.

[RedForLife]

I don't know about all of you but, I'd just as soon put Lorenzen in centerfield on a regular basis.

[Big Klu]

Reds improve to 8-17 on Sunday, and 5-9 in throwback games.

[Ron Madden]

Box Score

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/d-backs-vs-reds/2019/09/08/565294#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab= box,game=565294

[PuffyPig]

Here we go....Leake has had 5 potential wins blown this season.

I smell #6

With a high ERA, I don’t think he deserves 16 wins though, 17 after today’s blown save.

How many wins does he have in poorly pitched games ?


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[Rantly]

With a high ERA, I don’t think he deserves 16 wins though, 17 after today’s blown save.

How many wins does he have in poorly pitched games ?


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Leaks has definitely been consistently average in his career and very durable. Noticed his BA is only .063, probably small sample size and not staying sharp being in AL for so
long.

[Big Klu]

Eugenio Suarez's HR total as a Red (138) added to Ted Kluszewski's total (251) is exactly equal to Johnny Bench's total (389).

[klw]

Votto’s other numbers would be great though
Votto is at .265. He is 125 for 472 on the year. If he goes 25 for his next 28 he would get to .300. Even if these were all singles it would likely raise his OPS from the .770 range to the .850 range. The Reds have 18 games remaining. Assuming 3 AB per game that would give Votto 54 more AB on the season for a total of 526. To hit .300 Votto would need to have 158 hits on the season or in other words he would need to go 33 for 54 the rest of the way. The big question is of course how many runs would he drive in over that stretch.

[WVRedsFan]

Had to make an unexpected trip today to SC and back again on Friday. Hate I'm missing these games. I did listen on radio and it was nice listening to Marty, though. Love SiriusXM. Lorenzen would not do as well as today if he played more. After this week, I'm sure they are compiling a book on him, but great today.

[Ironman92]

With a high ERA, I don’t think he deserves 16 wins though, 17 after today’s blown save.

How many wins does he have in poorly pitched games ?


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Honestly, looking through his game logs.... 1 for sure where he had like an 11 run lead and then he imploded but still got the win. His last win he had a good lead and his defense didn’t make a couple easy ones and he gave up 4 in his 6th inning after being good the first 5

2 at most, he’s had 6 blown now

[ScotlandRed]

Remember people wanted to trade Suarez

[DocRed]

Remember people wanted to trade Suarez

I'm guessing they still do as the proposition was not that he was bad but that he was the one payer that would get the most return of any Red.

[PuffyPig]

Honestly, looking through his game logs.... 1 for sure where he had like an 11 run lead and then he imploded but still got the win. His last win he had a good lead and his defense didn’t make a couple easy ones and he gave up 4 in his 6th inning after being good the first 5

2 at most, he’s had 6 blown now

He’s 1 win above replacement value.

He’s simply not a very good starter with a ERA, FIP and xFIP around 5.

He’s very lucky to have 11 wins.


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[757690]

He’s 1 win above replacement value.

He’s simply not a very good starter with a ERA, FIP and xFIP around 5.

He’s very lucky to have 11 wins.


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Leake, like Arroyo and other smart pitchers, has a history of being better than his peripherals say he should be. At this point, I’m good with saying it’s not luck.

[Umkubas]

Winner Winner chicken dinner

[GAC]

I was at yesterday's game with my daughter, son, and friend. My daughter got home Saturday from Germany (on leave from Army). We sat two rows behind the D'Backs dugout. Had a phenomenal time. You just can't beat field level seats that close to the game. I was disappointed when I saw the starting line-up, with no Senzel or Aquino, prospect O'Grady in CF, and especially with Dietrich in LF. I wasn't too pumped (LOL)

But being that close to the field watching the game, really helps you get a good perspective of things. Watching the Lorenzen A/B where he wasn't simply fouling off pitches but sending rockets into foul territory, I said "He's going to do this. He's zoned in." And sure enough. Such an electric moment, and I was glad I got to share it with my kids.

Watching Dietrich track that fly-ball to LF in the 3rd inning, and not only blow it so badly but look so terrible (lost) in doing so was an embarrassment. Yes, it was high and deep; but plenty of time to be back there, against the wall, waiting for it. I looked at my daughter and said "It looks like he just threw himself against the wall in desperation and didn't even know where the ball was at!" (LOL). And that wasn't the only one hit out there he didn't track well (but somehow escaped). No - this guy should don't be playing OF IMO. And he also shouldn't be on this roster in '20 IMO.

It was good to see Mike Leake too.

[cumberlandreds]

I watched the last couple of innings of this one. I had the NFL Redzone channel on and my wife was there with me. She said, I thought you didn't like the NFL anymore? I said you are right and then said let's go to baseball and clicked over to the Reds game. I'm glad I did and got to see Lorenzen get the winning hit. What a great moment! I guarantee you there was better ending to any NFL game. I'm coming around to the idea that Lorenzen should get some more playing time in the field. He has a good approach and had a very good AB in the 9th. He fouled off a couple of tough pitches when had a 3-2 count before the hit. It's moments like this that make baseball fun and interesting.

- - - Updated - - -


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds 100-Home Run Club
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Joey Votto - 283
5. Adam Dunn - 270
6. Ted Kluszewski - 251
7. George Foster - 244
8. Jay Bruce - 233
9. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
10. Eric Davis - 203
11. Barry Larkin - 198
12. Brandon Phillips - 191
13. Vada Pinson - 186
14. Wally Post - 172
15. Gus Bell - 160
16. Joe Morgan - 152
16. Pete Rose - 152
18. Lee May - 147
19. Eugenio Suarez - 138
20. Dan Driessen - 133
21. Reggie Sanders - 125
22. Ernie Lombardi - 120
23. Sean Casey - 118
24. Frank McCormick - 110
25. Todd Frazier - 108
26. Dave Parker - 107
27. Chris Sabo - 104
28. Dave Concepcion - 101

At the rate Suarez is going he may just catch Lee May before the season is over. :)

[cumberlandreds]

OK, my opinions on the 1995 uniforms:

Caps: OK. I've never really been a fan of the pinstripes, but the 1995 cap was meant to be an homage to the 1961 cap, but with a wishbone-C. (I do like white caps, but with a solid white crown like those worn in the late 50's.) The C is a little larger than it was back then, though -- I have a 1993 home cap (which is identical to the 1995 cap), and the C on that cap is the same size as the C on the old BRM caps. The red helmets are an accurate look, though -- the 1993-98 Reds wore red batting helmets both home and away.

Jerseys: OK. Again, the sleeveless uniform was brought back after the Reds wore sleeveless throwbacks for a couple of games in 1991 and 1992, and fan response was positive. The jersey was a new design that was a sort of homage to the uniforms of the 60's. The red "C-Reds" logo with white negative space took some getting used to, as it was opposite to the white "C-Reds" logo with red negative space that had been used for the previous 25 years or so. The big white C on the left sleeve of the red undershirts is accurate, but not every player has one. Also, the big font for the names on the back is wrong. It is accurate for the BRM uniforms of the 70's, but the Reds had gone to a smaller font for the names on the backs in the 90's.

Pants: OK. Not a fan of pinstripes, but they are accurate for the period.

Socks: OK at best. The Reds still were wearing stirrups in 1995, but only a few players are showing any sock at all.

Overall: Just OK. They are pretty much accurate to what the Reds wore in 1995. I have never really cared for pinstripes, but I also never really hated the 1993-98 uniforms. They got points from me for trying something new by going to a button-up uniform and trying a sleeveless vest, but it never really popped. A for effort, but overall average at best.

(Actually I disliked the 1993-98 road uniforms much more than the home unis. Sleeved road uniforms when the home jersey is a vest, and pinstripes on gray uniforms is just wrong. And the numbers on the front of the jersey were on the wrong side!)


I would like to nominate BigKlu as the Redszone official uniform fashion expert. What does everyone else say? :)

[PuffyPig]

Leake, like Arroyo and other smart pitchers, has a history of being better than his peripherals say he should be. At this point, I’m good with saying it’s not luck.

But his peripherals aren't any better than his actual stats relating to run prevention. He's giving up lots of runs, , as his peripherals suggest he should,

[Patrick Bateman]

Mike Leake career ERA: 4.09
Mike Leake career xFIP 3.94
Mike Leake career FIP: 4.22

Seems like he's generally been right around where he should be.

[757690]

But his peripherals aren't any better than his actual stats relating to run prevention. He's giving up lots of runs, , as his peripherals suggest he should,

You were talking about wins, and that was what I was referring to. He’s won 104 games, 8 double digit win seasons, only 97 loses, with a career 4.22 FIP. That’s rare.

[PuffyPig]

You were talking about wins, and that was what I was referring to. He’s won 104 games, 8 double digit win seasons, only 97 loses, with a career 4.22 FIP. That’s rare.

He's been basically a league average starter with a league average ERA and FIP with about as many wins as loses.

He's been durable for sure.

But for some reason you think that 104 wins is great, but 97 loses rate only an "only". He's been basically a ,500 pitcher and there is nothing unual about that.

[757690]

He's been basically a league average starter with a league average ERA and FIP with about as many wins as loses.

He's been durable for sure.

But for some reason you think that 104 wins is great, but 97 loses rate only an "only". He's been basically a ,500 pitcher and there is nothing unual about that.

You seemed perplexed that he had 11 wins with a high ERA. I’m pointing out he’s done that his entire career.

[PuffyPig]

You seemed perplexed that he had 11 wins with a high ERA. I’m pointing out he’s done that his entire career.

I was perplexed because some one suggested he could easily have 17 wins if the bullpen hadn't blown so many saves, and I simply pointed out that with an ERA, FIP, xPp closer to 5, he's been quite lucky this year.

There is one thing winning 10 games giving up 4 runs per game, it's another winning 17(or even 10) giving up closer to 5 runs.

[Sea Ray]

He's been basically a league average starter with a league average ERA and FIP with about as many wins as loses.

He's been durable for sure.

But for some reason you think that 104 wins is great, but 97 loses rate only an "only". He's been basically a ,500 pitcher and there is nothing unual about that.

Actually a starting pitcher who's been in the league as long as Leake has, who's above .500 is generally a pretty good pitcher. His winning percentage is just a touch under first ballot Hall of Famers like Nolan Ryan.

[PuffyPig]

Actually a starting pitcher who's been in the league as long as Leake has, who's above .500 is generally a pretty good pitcher. His winning percentage is just a touch under first ballot Hall of Famers like Nolan Ryan.

So you're suggesting a pitcher who wins marginally more than half of his games (and has the peripherals to match that record with a lifetime WAR less than 20) should be considered pretty good and can be compared favourably to a Hall of Fame pitcher with a lifetime WAR over 100, based entirely on their individual winning percentages?

Good one.

Leake is the classic case of an average major league starter, who'll give you 30 starts, go 10-10 with an ERA of about 4.00, with a WAR about 1.6.

[Sea Ray]

So you're suggesting a pitcher who wins marginally more than half of his games (and has the peripherals to match that record with a lifetime WAR less than 20) should be considered pretty good and can be compared favourably to a Hall of Fame pitcher with a lifetime WAR over 100, based entirely on their individual winning percentages?

Good one.

Leake is the classic case of an average major league starter, who'll give you 30 starts, go 10-10 with an ERA of about 4.00, with a WAR about 1.6.

I do think Leake is a solid major league pitcher. He's the best pitcher we've drafted in the first rd since Don Gullett in 1969. His bWAR numbers are about 3x Homer Bailey's considering that he's got 3 less yrs. These kinds of guys don't shake out of trees. He can pitch for me as part of a 5 man rotation anyday

[PuffyPig]

I do think Leake is a solid major league pitcher. He's the best pitcher we've drafted in the first rd since Don Gullett in 1969. His bWAR numbers are about 3x Homer Bailey's considering that he's got 3 less yrs. These kinds of guys don't shake out of trees. He can pitch for me as part of a 5 man rotation anyday

I said that he's a average major league starter, which makes him a reasonable addition to any rotation. But comparing him to Nolan Ryan.....

[Sea Ray]

I said that he's a average major league starter, which makes him a reasonable addition to any rotation. But comparing him to Nolan Ryan.....

I was comparing his W-L record percentage to Nolan Ryan. I was making the point that lots of good pitchers have a winning percentage just a little over .500. In terms of winning percentage, the two are very comparable, even though Ryan had so many other things going for him...it still didn't often translate into wins

[PuffyPig]

I was comparing his W-L record percentage to Nolan Ryan. I was making the point that lots of good pitchers have a winning percentage just a little over .500. In terms of winning percentage, the two are very comparable, even though Ryan had so many other things going for him...it still didn't often translate into wins

Won-loss record is a pretty meaningless stat.

You may as well compare what flavour of ice cream they preferred.






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[Sea Ray]

Won-loss record is a pretty meaningless stat.

You may as well compare what flavour of ice cream they preferred.






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I get it. But you brought up wins a long time ago in this discussion:


With a high ERA, I don’t think he deserves 16 wins though, 17 after today’s blown save.

How many wins does he have in poorly pitched games ?


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If it's that meaningless why did you address it earlier?

[PuffyPig]

I get it. But you brought up wins a long time ago in this discussion:





I didn't bring up wins. I was simply responding to a post that suggested that Leake was deserving of many more wins due to blown saves. The fact that Leake was in position to win that many games is proof enough that wins are a meaningless stat, when an average pitcher having a mediocre season could potentially accomplish that.

[GAC]

I would like to nominate BigKlu as the Redszone official uniform fashion expert. What does everyone else say? :)

That depends , does he wear boxers or briefs? LOL