2020 Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread

[Kingspoint]

The quotes in the Hobson piece this morning are good if you have been worrying about the Bengals over-thinking this and passing him at #1 overall or trading down. Callahan and Van Pelt have eyes, and are on board:

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-burrowing-into-draft-senior-bowl-prep

Who are Callahan and Van Pelt?

[Kingspoint]

I don't get worries over any rookie's second contract (not aimed at you). If you get a rookie who is good, you have four full years of value under the current CBA with an option for year 5. If they are good, usually they don't see fifth year option and get a new contract instead. Nevertheless, assuming Burrow gets here and is what I think he is, he should be starting day 1 for this team (I mean, good lord, Dalton started day 1 - not sure why anyone seriously thinks Burrow needs to sit)...

Dalton started because he was almost 24 years old and he already had a quick release...much quicker than 80% of the current starting QB's at the time. He also had Andrew Whitworth protecting his blindside 16 games per year, every single play. He also had a Defense that could always give him good field position. Young quarterbacks have their careers derailed when they hold onto the ball too long, run too often, get sacked too often and start their drives from deep in their own territory too often. Dalton was set up for success (with A.J. Green and Eifert) from Day 1.

[Hillsdale87]

Bag 'O Glass Ross - I cut him. Can't run routes, can't get separation unless it's a footrace, won't contest for the ball, and has hands of stone.

The Bengals should not cut John Ross right as they get him a QB who can finally throw deep accurately. Ross certainly has his issues, but he's a speed guy, not a guy who's going to specialize in making contested catches, which is required when Dalton is throwing deep. Hopefully he stays around and Burrow hits him in stride a bunch next year.

[membengal]

Who are Callahan and Van Pelt?

The offensive coordinator and qb coach for the Cincinnati Bengals.

[membengal]

Dalton started because he was almost 24 years old and he already had a quick release...much quicker than 80% of the current starting QB's at the time. He also had Andrew Whitworth protecting his blindside 16 games per year, every single play. He also had a Defense that could always give him good field position. Young quarterbacks have their careers derailed when they hold onto the ball too long, run too often, get sacked too often and start their drives from deep in their own territory too often. Dalton was set up for success (with A.J. Green and Eifert) from Day 1.

What?

Burrow is almost 24 too, AJ green was a fellow rookie, Andrew Whitworth was settling in at LT after switching from guard, and bengals didn’t know yet if that was gonna work out and Tyler Eifert was at notre dame. Let’s not pretend dalton walked into a situation that looked ripe for success, that preseason plenty of people picked them to win about two games...

[plantmanky]

Transactions that need to happen

Dennard - let him walk
Atkins - need to trade for high draft pick you can get
Dunlap - need to trade for high draft pick you can get
Eifert - Resign to same deal as 2019 if not let him walk.
Green - Tag and trade, He can not play for team in 2020
Dalton - Trade

Should be able to get at least a couple 2nd round picks and couple 3rd round picks out of this group.

[Hillsdale87]

Transactions that need to happen

Dennard - let him walk
Atkins - need to trade for high draft pick you can get
Dunlap - need to trade for high draft pick you can get
Eifert - Resign to same deal as 2019 if not let him walk.
Green - Tag and trade, He can not play for team in 2020
Dalton - Trade

Should be able to get at least a couple 2nd round picks and couple 3rd round picks out of this group.

Dunlap posted his highest PFF grade of his career last year. I'd trade him if somebody blows them away with an offer, but I wouldn't be in a rush to get rid of him


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[Hillsdale87]

What?

Burrow is almost 24 too, AJ green was a fellow rookie, Andrew Whitworth was settling in at LT after switching from guard, and bengals didn’t know yet if that was gonna work out and Tyler Eifert was at notre dame. Let’s not pretend dalton walked into a situation that looked ripe for success, that preseason plenty of people picked them to win about two games...

I think people forget how surprising that 2011 team was. Bengals had the 4th pick in the draft that year. That team was terrible. And Burrow is at least as pro-ready as Dalton was.


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[membengal]

I think people forget how surprising that 2011 team was. Bengals had the 4th pick in the draft that year. That team was terrible. And Burrow is at least as pro-ready as Dalton was.


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Exactly. And, yes, Burrow is, at the very least, as pro-ready as Dalton was. You and I know that Burrow is, in fact, way more pro-ready than Dalton was...

[KoryMac5]

Transactions that need to happen

Dennard - let him walk
Atkins - need to trade for high draft pick you can get
Dunlap - need to trade for high draft pick you can get
Eifert - Resign to same deal as 2019 if not let him walk.
Green - Tag and trade, He can not play for team in 2020
Dalton - Trade

Should be able to get at least a couple 2nd round picks and couple 3rd round picks out of this group.

Atkins would be one I would look to move...
Eifert I think is gone...
Dennard won't cost much and had little market last year I would try and sign...allows you to cut Dre.
Green I don't think would get you much he has missed so much time...plus I want to see him work with Burrow.
Dalton has played his last snap...I think he is headed to NE.
Dunlap played lights out last 7-8 weeks.

[Hillsdale87]

Exactly. And, yes, Burrow is, at the very least, as pro-ready as Dalton was. You and I know that Burrow is, in fact, way more pro-ready than Dalton was...

Burrow's pocket mobility solves for a lot of other woes too. While it would obviously be awesome to have a great OL, a QB that can move and avoid the rush mitigates that a bit. Russell Wilson has consistently played behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL and yet continues to be extremely effective.

[membengal]

Burrow's pocket mobility solves for a lot of other woes too. While it would obviously be awesome to have a great OL, a QB that can move and avoid the rush mitigates that a bit. Russell Wilson has consistently played behind one of the worst OLs in the NFL and yet continues to be extremely effective.

For damn sure. Let's put it this way, the free rushers up the middle and from the edge that came for Burrow that he way more often than not found a way to avoid and then still look downfield and complete passes? Not a one of those could Dalton have done the same. Not one. It is, ultimately, what held Dalton back from ever becoming more than the demarcation point for an average QB...

[GAC]

No doubt that Burrow will start. The NFL is a TV entertainment business, and 1st round quarterbacks are their best shiny new toys.

That they also love to break too.

[texasdave]

Who are Callahan and Van Pelt?

15549

Callahan: Go ahead. Make my draft.

[Bob Sheed]

15549

Callahan: Go ahead. Make his draft.

Was it 5 first round busts in a row? Or was it 6? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself.

[Boss-Hog]

Atkins would be one I would look to move...
Eifert I think is gone...
Dennard won't cost much and had little market last year I would try and sign...allows you to cut Dre.
Green I don't think would get you much he has missed so much time...plus I want to see him work with Burrow.
Dalton has played his last snap...I think he is headed to NE.
Dunlap played lights out last 7-8 weeks.With his diminishing play and hefty contract, unfortunately, I think most teams would consider that contract a dealbreaker. The Bengals might be able to get a lower round pick if they ate some money, which they rarely do, so they might as well keep him if that's the alternative. It's not as if they have any ready made replacements for him on the roster anyway.

[membengal]

Boss - dalton can be cut with no dead money - freeing up 17 million under the cap. If they can’t deal him he’s most certainly cut.

[Boss-Hog]

Boss - dalton can be cut with no dead money - freeing up 17 million under the cap. If they can’t deal him he’s most certainly cut.Whoops - I was referring to Atkins. I now see why that wasn't clear.

[Kingspoint]

The offensive coordinator and qb coach for the Cincinnati Bengals.

Excuse me then if they did so poorly that I truly didn't know who they were. Seems Katie's discovery of no-name coaching talent has exceeded that of her father's.

[North]

Excuse me then if they did so poorly that I truly didn't know who they were. Seems Katie's discovery of no-name coaching talent has exceeded that of her father's.

QB coach Alex Van Pelt has been around for a long time. Was Aaron Rogers' coach for several years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Van_Pelt

[GAC]

Yes, the Bengals could save approx $16M by cutting Dalton; but, IMO, I still say the chances are slim they cut him. While it's fun to discuss it, it doesn't matter what any of us think on how Burrows should be handled (start/sit) ... what's the Bengal's approach, and who is making that decision? And what all should be considered in that decision?

Some seem to contend (out of frustration with Dalton, he's the goat) cut him, get him as far away from this organization like right now! Retaining him is seen as "getting in the way" of Burrow's debut. We don't need him.

JMO. Basically "dumping" veteran Dalton and betting the pot on a highly talented, but still yet unproven QB, carries risk. How great is the level of that risk? You don't know.

To the Browns (Bengals) - what, if any, are the advantages of retaining Dalton for '20? Yeah. The "disadvantage" is you have to pay him. IMO, regardless of how "frugal" the Browns are, it may not weigh too heavily (drop in the bucket really).

Advantages of retaining Dalton ....

- who backs Burrows up in case he struggles, gets banged up (injured), whatever? If, God forbid, anything happens to Burrows, and you have no capable back-up, your season is shot. Sign somebody? You not only got "somebody", but he's under contract, and who better to backup and even mentor this rookie then someone who has been in, and knows, the system, the players, etc? Having Dalton on that sideline, even if the decision is made to start Burrows, is far more advantageous (IMO) for Bengals/Burrows then not having him there.

And having Dalton in training camp/pre-season raises the level of competition, and also tells Burrows he still has to prove himself. It takes some of the pressure off Burrows too. A lot of stuff, like injuries, go down in the pre-season, and teams all of a sudden need a QB. A situation the Browns would love to be in.

I think there are more advantages to retaining Dalton then dumping him.

[membengal]

No.

[Boss-Hog]

No.Agreed. There's next to zero chance the Bengals (or any team) are paying a backup QB $17 million - especially when they have holes all over the roster. On top of that, they'd be losing whatever mid to late round pick they can get in a trade.

[Hillsdale87]

Hopefully this can now be put to bed. Burrow has no issues with going to the Bengals

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28499580/father-says-joe-burrow-happy-drafted-bengals


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[bucksfan2]

Dalton will be traded, probably with a renegotiated contract.

I think now is when the Bengals should try and build. If you can get a great return for Atkins or Dunlap, I think you move them. If you can't, you hold onto them.

AJ has to return right now. He gives Burrow help, and the franchise tender allows him to prove himself again.

In regards to the 5th year option, I thought that is when the rookie contracts begin to escalate substantially. Its all moot if Burrow is any good, he will have that option picked up, or receive a massive extension.

[Redsfaithful]

The national media misses a lot of things with the Bengals, and since they will be in the spotlight a little bit over the next few months I expect that to get worse.

One thing I think they'll miss with Dalton is that the Bengals generally aren't punitive with long time players. i.e. they reward good play with contract extensions and then they play out the entire extension even if the player fades a bit.

Point being with Dalton here, I think the franchise likes him, and so I think they will trade him without drama while trying to put him into a good situation.

[reds77]

Just another article about the interview with Burrow's dad: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001097266/article/burrows-father-says-qb-would-be-happy-with-bengals

I think it's only good news that Burrow isn't likely to shun the Bengals. Get this kid to like Skyline Chili and all will be well in the world.

It's time to start taking bets on whether or not Burrow will wear #9 or #10 as a Bengal.

[plantmanky]

Trade Dalton and Green as a package deal on draft day, someone will bite hard.

[Kingspoint]

NCAA Determines Becoming A Bengal Punishment Enough For Joe Burrow Taking Cash From Odell Beckham

https://sports.theonion.com/ncaa-determines-becoming-a-bengal-punishment-enough-for-1841064671?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email

[Kingspoint]

QB coach Alex Van Pelt has been around for a long time. Was Aaron Rogers' coach for several years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Van_Pelt

Rogers was already an MVP before he bacame his QB Coach. Maybe he learned something from Rogers. He certainly didn't teach him anthing, anymore than he taught his Buffalo QB's or his Packers' RB's anything.

[Todd Gack]

Bengals signed Al Golden to be their LB coach. We can almost be assured that our LB's will not just completely suck next year, but just absolutely blow.

[North]

Rogers was already an MVP before he bacame his QB Coach. Maybe he learned something from Rogers. He certainly didn't teach him anthing, anymore than he taught his Buffalo QB's or his Packers' RB's anything.

Well, let's can him then.

[membengal]

Rogers was already an MVP before he bacame his QB Coach. Maybe he learned something from Rogers. He certainly didn't teach him anthing, anymore than he taught his Buffalo QB's or his Packers' RB's anything.

You are being weird about this. Rodgers was furious last year when Green Bay let Van Pelt go.

[Redsfaithful]

Rogers was already an MVP before he bacame his QB Coach. Maybe he learned something from Rogers. He certainly didn't teach him anthing, anymore than he taught his Buffalo QB's or his Packers' RB's anything.

Rodgers is a fan of Van Pelt:


Alex Van Pelt is no longer the quarterbacks coach of the Green Bay Packers and Aaron Rodgers was not happy with the decision. Rodgers said he was surprised by the Packers decision to let Van Pelt go and thought it was strange they made the move without talking to him. Van Pelt, who is now the quarterbacks coach of the Cincinnati Bengals, spoke about his experience with the Packers on the Bengals website (via Rob Demovsky of ESPN) and he said leaving was not an easy decision.

“It’s never easy to leave someplace that you’ve been, especially when you have a relationship with the people you worked with,” Van Pelt said. “So it’s tough.”

Van Pelt heard what Rodgers had to say and he was appreciative of his comments.

[Kingspoint]

You are being weird about this. Rodgers was furious last year when Green Bay let Van Pelt go.

He didn't need him. Was kidding about not knowing Van Pelt. Never been a fan of his.

[Kingspoint]

Maybe Rodgers was more upset that he wasn't consulted than in the fact he was actually let go. That's how I read it.

[GAC]

Agreed. There's next to zero chance the Bengals (or any team) are paying a backup QB $17 million - especially when they have holes all over the roster. On top of that, they'd be losing whatever mid to late round pick they can get in a trade.

All true. But the Bengals are on the hook for that 17M regardless unless they can find a trading partner. Dalton will obviously agree to a reworked contract to get the hell out of Cincinnati. But the media, fans, etc., for the last few years have been nailing Dalton left and right, his slide in performance, he's the problem, put a fork in him, he's 32 and his best years are behind him. Not the best selling (marketing) points.

Look. If they decide to start Burrows that's fine with me. You mention "holes all over the roster". It's why this team went 2-14. I'm looking at the overall condition that this team is in going into '20. Definite room (areas) for improvement/upgrade. What type of situation is this inexperienced, rookie QB - don't care how good everyone says he is, nor the hype - stepping into in '20? That's the concern every Bengal fan should have - what kind of supporting cast is he going to have in '20? Are they going to seriously improve those areas in the off-season?

I have no qualms (doubts) about this kid's talent and ability. Certainly understand the excitement. I also have no qualms with any fan who has uneasiness, shows caution, at wanting them to "protect" this valuable asset too. I don't care who it is, but IMO they need to have a capable back-up (which they don't have), and yeah, preferably a vet who can help the kid along (mentor) him through his first season. Even a majority of other rookie QBs who were started had that on the sideline.

Start him? Fine. Be better prepared for the whatever that could occur because this team has a lot of issues to address for '20. The Bengal's O-line did a terrible job last year protecting the QB, pocket collapsing, immense QB pressure, no time for plays to develop. No QB, I don't care who they are, will flourish, be allowed to excel, in those conditions.

I think fans will feel more "comfortable" when they see what type of O-line Burrow's has next year.

[membengal]

All true. But the Bengals are on the hook for that 17M regardless unless they can find a trading partner.

That is literally wrong. He can be cut with NO DEAD MONEY this year. None of that 17 million is guaranteed.

[North]

That is literally wrong. He can be cut with NO DEAD MONEY this year. None of that 17 million is guaranteed.

Yep you are right - his signing bonus was fully amortized in 2018, and the guaranteed portion of the contract has been satisfied years ago. He had a workout bonus in 2019 of $200,000. Zero dead money.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/andy-dalton-7750/

[Boss-Hog]

All true. But the Bengals are on the hook for that 17M regardless unless they can find a trading partner. Dalton will obviously agree to a reworked contract to get the hell out of Cincinnati. But the media, fans, etc., for the last few years have been nailing Dalton left and right, his slide in performance, he's the problem, put a fork in him, he's 32 and his best years are behind him. Not the best selling (marketing) points.

Look. If they decide to start Burrows that's fine with me. You mention "holes all over the roster". It's why this team went 2-14. I'm looking at the overall condition that this team is in going into '20. Definite room (areas) for improvement/upgrade. What type of situation is this inexperienced, rookie QB - don't care how good everyone says he is, nor the hype - stepping into in '20? That's the concern every Bengal fan should have - what kind of supporting cast is he going to have in '20? Are they going to seriously improve those areas in the off-season?

I have no qualms (doubts) about this kid's talent and ability. Certainly understand the excitement. I also have no qualms with any fan who has uneasiness, shows caution, at wanting them to "protect" this valuable asset too. I don't care who it is, but IMO they need to have a capable back-up (which they don't have), and yeah, preferably a vet who can help the kid along (mentor) him through his first season. Even a majority of other rookie QBs who were started had that on the sideline.

Start him? Fine. Be better prepared for the whatever that could occur because this team has a lot of issues to address for '20. The Bengal's O-line did a terrible job last year protecting the QB, pocket collapsing, immense QB pressure, no time for plays to develop. No QB, I don't care who they are, will flourish, be allowed to excel, in those conditions.

I think fans will feel more "comfortable" when they see what type of O-line Burrow's has next year.As mem pointed out, none of his salary for next year is guaranteed as you'd see in MLB. In a worst case scenario in which the Bengals can't find a trade without requiring the Bengals to eat some of his salary, they'd simply release him and let him go on his way.

The Bengals will need a competent backup QB, such as a possible A.J. McCarron reunion, but there's next to zero chance it's Dalton. He wants a chance to continue to start for a team, and the Bengals will do right by him, as they should. One way or another, that $17 million is coming off the books. In theory, that would allow them to upgrade a couple spots that need it, but as always, it depends on how smart they are with that money.

[North]

Housh chimes in... :D

Houshmandzadeh on Joe Burrow, Bengals: If Carson Palmer couldn't do it, nobody can
Dave Clark, Cincinnati Enquirer Published 2:03 a.m. ET Jan. 18, 2020

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/18/tj-houshmandzadeh-bengals-joe-burrow-cant-if-carson-palmer-didnt/4509467002/


Interesting about Carolina having the hots for Burrow...anyone up for some VALUE? :rolleyes:

[KoryMac5]

Housh chimes in... :D

Houshmandzadeh on Joe Burrow, Bengals: If Carson Palmer couldn't do it, nobody can
Dave Clark, Cincinnati Enquirer Published 2:03 a.m. ET Jan. 18, 2020

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/18/tj-houshmandzadeh-bengals-joe-burrow-cant-if-carson-palmer-didnt/4509467002/


Interesting about Carolina having the hots for Burrow...anyone up for some VALUE? :rolleyes:

I don't agree 100% with TJ but I will say that in order to compete on a Super Bowl level Burrow will need the team to change its philosophy and get involved in all aspects of football operations including free agency. They will have a 5 yr window before Burrow gets really expensive...

[Todd Gack]

Housh chimes in... :D

Houshmandzadeh on Joe Burrow, Bengals: If Carson Palmer couldn't do it, nobody can
Dave Clark, Cincinnati Enquirer Published 2:03 a.m. ET Jan. 18, 2020

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/18/tj-houshmandzadeh-bengals-joe-burrow-cant-if-carson-palmer-didnt/4509467002/


Interesting about Carolina having the hots for Burrow...anyone up for some VALUE? :rolleyes:


I mean, the only thing that will change is if Mike Brown dies and it's not even going to be guaranteed.I mean, the organization just came out with their ridiculous "We're not in the business to help out other teams" argument. Completely insane to think like that. Just absurd that THAT'S how this organization looks at it. Just frustrating and I do share TJ's views. We accepted guys like Vontaze Burfic tand losers like Chris Henry and Pac-Man because this is a terribly run organization. Our first year head coach is a terrible play caller and he's naive enough to think he'll change things compared to a guy who was well respected like Marvin Lewis.

It's just hard to think anything will really change.

[Bob Sheed]

I just hope the Bengals don't break their shiny new toy because of their own unwillingness to prioritize winning.

If they aren't going to change, I'd rather they just trade the pick and that he gets drafted by the Panthers. Hell, that might be enough for me to start cheering for the Panthers and finally drop the Bengals.

[Kingspoint]

We'll know soon enough if Katie and Mr. Katie learned anything from last offseason. Within the next six weeks bonuses for sone players kick in, some partial gaurantees kick in and Free Agent visits get set up.

I must remind everyone that the Bengals had the fewest personal interviews, workouts and visits of potential draft picks than any other team last season. They saved pennies at the expense of trying to win.

To show things are "improving" they need to:

1. Not be in the bottom-five in the league in College personal interviews/workouts/visits. If they actually gave a rat's patooty they would be Top-5 because they suck, are void of talent, have a lost fanbase, and have the first overall pick of each day of the draft, three picks highly coveted in trades. Knowing them, they won't even do this first minimal thing they should do.

2. Get rid of any and all Veterans that finished the year in the bottom 20% of PFF grades for their position. This will free up at least $50M, in addition to Dalton's $17M. They should be going into Free Agency with more money to spend than any organization in the league.

3. Trade players to get some extra picks, whether for this year, the next, or the year after that.

4. Sign at least eight Tier-3 or better Free Agents instead of always signing Tier-5 level Free Agents (see Booby Hart and Andre Schmidt).

5. Don't make up the annual excuse that there isn't any money to spend. It is a flat out lie believing the fans are a bunch of morons and will believe it. There is always money to spend (see 49ers and Pats and Cowboys)

6. Increase the size of the scouting department. This organization truly sucks and has sucked for three decades. They have the worst team in the NFL along with the worst talent and worst Coaches. All avenues should be exhausted to leave no stone unturned in order to do better in the draft each of the next five years than every other team.

Of course, none of this is going to happen until the citizens of the tri-county area hold them accountable. Expecting that to happen is a pipedream.

[North]

Joe Burrow declines Senior Bowl invite
The hopefully-soon-to-be Bengal will wait until the combine to meet with his future team.
By John Sheeran@John__Sheeran Jan 18, 2020, 2:27pm EST


I didn't know about the ribs:

...:Burrow's situation does not in any way require him to go down to Mobile, since his draft stock is already as high as it can possibly get. Even if he were to accept, him playing would be highly unlike since he suffered torn rib cartilage in his final game."

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/18/21071971/joe-burrow-senior-bowl-2020-lsu-tigers-news-ncaa-football-bengals-draft

[GAC]

As mem pointed out, none of his salary for next year is guaranteed as you'd see in MLB. In a worst case scenario in which the Bengals can't find a trade without requiring the Bengals to eat some of his salary, they'd simply release him and let him go on his way.

I am not knowledgeable on the current CBA (details). Especially on this term "dead money" and it's working relationship with the salary cap and formula's for computing. I spent some time reading up on it yesterday... and got a headache (LOL).

Not afraid to admit it's all quite confusing to me. Things use to be so simple. The Bengals signed him to a 6 year/96M contract, which included $17M of guarantees (paid out in the early years), and an annual salary of 16M. He has one year left on the contract and would be paid the base salary ($16M+). I was under the impression he was still under contract for '20 and owed that money. But... if I am understanding it correctly ...

The Bengals have already fulfilled the guaranteed money aspects of Dalton's contract, so the years is not a factor. So if they cut him before June, and before the end of the contract ....dead money is the salary cap space a team must allocate to a particular player who has been cut. In Dalton's case it would be zero, thus creating $17.5M in cap space to be allocated elsewhere.

Is that a correct assessment?



The Bengals will need a competent backup QB, such as a possible A.J. McCarron reunion, but there's next to zero chance it's Dalton.

I was just simply listing the advantages that the Browns may take into consideration with possibly retaining Dalton in relationship with their new young QB in his first year. I can understand if they decide to cut him. My point is they would be foolish to not acquire some sort of viable back-up, would love some veteran presence, to take the pressure off of Burrows and help the kid along in his first year. A cautious, and wise, approach IMO.


He wants a chance to continue to start for a team, and the Bengals will do right by him, as they should.

I hope so. They didn't do right by him when they benched him on his birthday, the way they handled it.


In theory, that would allow them to upgrade a couple spots that need it, but as always, it depends on how smart they are with that money.

In theory- yes. They will obviously try to address some of those other issues (OL, LBer) in the draft. But that doesn't always work out does it? IMO, the Brown's problem, where they limit their capabilities for improvement, is putting too much emphasis (reliance) on the draft and not utilizing the market to the level needed to address those weaknesses the draft couldn't fill.

My only concern is for Burrows. He's a highly talented, gifted, maybe a once-in-a-lifetime acquisition. But he's still a kid who has yet to prove anything vs the Big Boys. I don't want this kid playing behind anything similar to what we saw in '19. That's all.

[Bob Sheed]

It's Burrow. Joe Burrow. Not Burrows. Crazy how many people add that 's'. Like Krogers. Or Meijers.

[GAC]

It's Burrow. Joe Burrow. Not Burrows. Crazy how many people add that 's'. Like Krogers. Or Meijers.

It's called being raised in Ohia. I put an "s" at the end of Walmart and Kroger too. LOL

[Bob Sheed]

It's called being raised in Ohia. I put an "s" at the end of Walmart and Kroger too. LOL

It's still better than local yokel small town verbiage like "The Wal-Mart" and "The Ohio State University."


:ninja:

[KoryMac5]

Adam Schefter reporting the Bengals have no intention of trading #1 pick...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28514417/sources-bengals-no-intention-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick

[Todd Gack]

Adam Schefter reporting the Bengals have no intention of trading #1 pick...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28514417/sources-bengals-no-intention-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick

NFL Pundits last 30 years:”Bengals have no intention of helping out other teams by trading anything.”

NFL Pundits 2020: Coontrol-C; Control-V

[GAC]

Adam Schefter reporting the Bengals have no intention of trading #1 pick...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28514417/sources-bengals-no-intention-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick


Good ol' Adam Schefter. Well D'uh (LOL)

[bucksfan2]

We'll know soon enough if Katie and Mr. Katie learned anything from last offseason. Within the next six weeks bonuses for sone players kick in, some partial gaurantees kick in and Free Agent visits get set up.

I must remind everyone that the Bengals had the fewest personal interviews, workouts and visits of potential draft picks than any other team last season. They saved pennies at the expense of trying to win.

To show things are "improving" they need to:

1. Not be in the bottom-five in the league in College personal interviews/workouts/visits. If they actually gave a rat's patooty they would be Top-5 because they suck, are void of talent, have a lost fanbase, and have the first overall pick of each day of the draft, three picks highly coveted in trades. Knowing them, they won't even do this first minimal thing they should do.

2. Get rid of any and all Veterans that finished the year in the bottom 20% of PFF grades for their position. This will free up at least $50M, in addition to Dalton's $17M. They should be going into Free Agency with more money to spend than any organization in the league.

3. Trade players to get some extra picks, whether for this year, the next, or the year after that.

4. Sign at least eight Tier-3 or better Free Agents instead of always signing Tier-5 level Free Agents (see Booby Hart and Andre Schmidt).

5. Don't make up the annual excuse that there isn't any money to spend. It is a flat out lie believing the fans are a bunch of morons and will believe it. There is always money to spend (see 49ers and Pats and Cowboys)

6. Increase the size of the scouting department. This organization truly sucks and has sucked for three decades. They have the worst team in the NFL along with the worst talent and worst Coaches. All avenues should be exhausted to leave no stone unturned in order to do better in the draft each of the next five years than every other team.

Of course, none of this is going to happen until the citizens of the tri-county area hold them accountable. Expecting that to happen is a pipedream.

I fully think it will change pretty drastically when Mike passes or is incapable of running the day to day operations. I think he has already stepped back, letting Tobin handle most of the player decisions. The staff needs to be increased, but their failure over the past few seasons has little to do with Brown and has more to do with misses in the draft.

I agree with a lot of this, they need to be more proactive in trading away players for picks. If someone is willing to pay a premium for a guy like Dunlap, you have to move on. Same with Atkins, been a great Bengal, probably a HOF Bengal, but they need to move on and get younger.

I agree with the notion of cutting the under-performers. I would cut anyone who isn't pure depth or has under-performed for years.

They need to do something in free agency. Bottom feeding isn't the answer. There should be able to sign a few league average players, maybe at LB so they can really focus on OL in the draft.

They can't miss in the draft again. The 2019 draft may be the worst draft I have ever seen the Bengals have. When you are drafting in the top 10, you can't have a draft where you place 0 players on All Rookie teams. The Bengals, the worst team in the league, had zero rookies who played well last year. Now that could change, but that can't happen again.

[WVRed]

Al Golden and Steve Jackson hired as assistants.

Golden was the head coach at Miami and Temple before that:

https://www.bengals.com/news/taylor-fills-coaching-slots-with-experience

[WrongVerb]

Adam Schefter reporting the Bengals have no intention of trading #1 pick...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28514417/sources-bengals-no-intention-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick

Not so fast...

Bengals executive Duke Tobin disputes ESPN’s report about No. 1 pick (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/20/bengals-executive-duke-tobin-disputes-espns-report-about-no-1-pick/)


Duke Tobin, the Bengals’ director of player personnel, said ESPN’s report that Cincinnati won’t trade the No. 1 pick no matter what is “news to me.”

“I don’t know that any decision has been made for what we’re going to do in April,” Tobin said Monday, via Geoff Hobson of the team website. “We’re early in the process. We certainly haven’t had any meetings to determine that at this point. Those will be meetings we’ll have as we go through the process.”

LOL

[Redsfaithful]

Duke Tobin might be a real problem. That's just asserting control, and it's completely unnecessary.

[Kingspoint]

As was mentioned in redszone a month ago, that the Bengals are Coaching one side of the Senior Bowl is huge. It helped them out when Marvin did it, and I think it helps just as much this time around. I sure hope they trade sone Veterans in order to acquire some more picks. They are in a great position to take advantage of it.

[GAC]

Not so fast...

Bengals executive Duke Tobin disputes ESPN’s report about No. 1 pick (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/20/bengals-executive-duke-tobin-disputes-espns-report-about-no-1-pick/)



LOL

I could be wrong, but I don't know of any organization, once they've secured the #1 pick, that they then publicly announce what they intend to do. No need to. Anything can happen between now and then. You don't say jack while the other organizations are scrambling around, vying to move up in the draft order, and yeah, even knocking on your door offering you the sun and moon. You listen, you play the game ...... then you go out and announce your pick at the podium on draft day (LOL)

It's assumed the Bengals will take Burrows ... but it's a pretty safe assumption (LOL).

Only logical

https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/1965399/original/?width=630&version=1965399

[membengal]

GAC is right - what else is Tobin going to say? No team would say in middle of January what it plans to do in April for the draft or says it will refuse to listen to anything.

[membengal]

Some other quotes from that piece that Wrong Verb deliberately left out so he could stir the pot I suspect:


And, yes, they're thinking about taking Burrow No. 1. But when it comes to talking about the No. 1 pick and who to take with it, there has yet to be a final, drop-dead meeting.

Which, of course, makes sense, since it is (checks calendar) JANUARY 21.

Also, more quotes from Tobin not included above:


Burrow lit it up this season and Tobin, a former college quarterback, enjoyed watching it.

"He had a wonderful year, a year very few people have had," Tobin said. "And their team had the same success. The way the coaches put the group together, the schematics that they had, the culture that they built all came together and the players were extremely well coached and with that comes success. When you start winning close games, you build camaraderie as a group and when you watched them you could really see it building and they became a complete team."

Tobin says the Bengals have plenty of time to catch up with Burrow and the team certainly understands why he isn't here

"We've seen him. We'll have a lot of opportunity to get to know him through the process," Tobin said. "We feel very comfortable by the time we have to make a decision in the draft on him and the other players as well.

"We respect his decision. He's had an incredibly long season. It lasted a lot longer than ours did. Fifteen games at a high level. I can certainly understand needing a little time to decompress after the year they had. We certainly understand his thoughts there."

[reds77]

GAC is right - what else is Tobin going to say? No team would say in middle of January what it plans to do in April for the draft or says it will refuse to listen to anything.

Yup, Tobin said what anyone from an organization would say.

[Sea Ray]

Not so fast...

Bengals executive Duke Tobin disputes ESPN’s report about No. 1 pick (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/20/bengals-executive-duke-tobin-disputes-espns-report-about-no-1-pick/)



LOL

I'll stop short of saying what you said to me:


It's a deeply, willfully ignorant statement.

Others have properly documented why Duke said what he said. No reason for me to pile on. I disagree with your take here

[KoryMac5]

Tobin has to leave the door open a crack just in case a team comes calling with a crazy offer...

[membengal]

Tobin has to leave the door open a crack just in case a team comes calling with a crazy offer...

Right. if some team offers their first and second round picks for the next five years of drafts, I would guess the Bengals would have to listen. I would pass it up, but you leave the door ajar for something ridiculous. Any competent GM would do the same.

[Sea Ray]

If they came out right now and said that their mind is made up they'd be fried for jumping to conclusions and not doing their due diligence. I don't even recall the Colts announcing in mid January that Andrew Luck would be their pick. As I recall they were still contemplating whether to hang onto Peyton

[WVRed]

If they came out right now and said that their mind is made up they'd be fried for jumping to conclusions and not doing their due diligence. I don't even recall the Colts announcing in mid January that Andrew Luck would be their pick. As I recall they were still contemplating whether to hang onto Peyton

The only time I ever remember in any sport a team announcing early they were selecting a certain player was the Cavs with LeBron.

[Hillsdale87]

If they came out right now and said that their mind is made up they'd be fried for jumping to conclusions and not doing their due diligence. I don't even recall the Colts announcing in mid January that Andrew Luck would be their pick. As I recall they were still contemplating whether to hang onto Peyton

I believe the Colts announced their intentions 3 days before the draft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[North]

Right. if some team offers their first and second round picks for the next five years of drafts, I would guess the Bengals would have to listen. I would pass it up, but you leave the door ajar for something ridiculous. Any competent GM would do the same.

You lost me at "competent GM." :lol:

[WrongVerb]

You lost me at "competent GM." :lol:

This. Any other organization, and these types of comments wouldn't be concerning. But with the Bengals, here you are.

Speaking of which, the day that Mike Brown said something along the lines of "we're not interested in making other teams better" was the day my interest in the team went from fanatical to perverse. I'm only in it now to see just how badly they will screw this up.

[Redsfaithful]

Could be Tobin is fine, he's just on thin ice with me after the last few drafts, and I took this as potentially him feeling irritated that someone else in the org was speaking out of turn. Happy to be wrong, if so.

Also disagree with the theory behind it - by saying they want Burrow I think they would be signaling how steep the price would be anyway, and you'd be letting fans dream for a few extra months. But the Bengals have never, ever cared about the fan experience in any way so ...

[bucksfan2]

Could be Tobin is fine, he's just on thin ice with me after the last few drafts, and I took this as potentially him feeling irritated that someone else in the org was speaking out of turn. Happy to be wrong, if so.

Also disagree with the theory behind it - by saying they want Burrow I think they would be signaling how steep the price would be anyway, and you'd be letting fans dream for a few extra months. But the Bengals have never, ever cared about the fan experience in any way so ...

I think the Bengals are locked in to Burrow. But what if the Dolphins offered them their 3 first rounders this season as well as a 1 and 3 next season? You have to take something insane like that. Even more so if you think the Dolphins will be in the bottom half next season.

[membengal]

That’s not enough for me to pass on Burrow.

[Sea Ray]

I believe the Colts announced their intentions 3 days before the draft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That sounds about right, hence my comments. Thanks for recollections

[Redsfaithful]

I think the Bengals are locked in to Burrow. But what if the Dolphins offered them their 3 first rounders this season as well as a 1 and 3 next season? You have to take something insane like that. Even more so if you think the Dolphins will be in the bottom half next season.

If they think Burrow is what he looks like, then I think you have to pass on just about anything.

Would you have traded Peyton Manning out of college for 3 firsts and a 1 & 3?

I'm not saying Burrow is Manning, I'm just saying I don't know what the price is on a true franchise top 3-5 QB. I think it would need to be so high, and then process be carried out so competently, the second half of which the Bengals would fail with, so I would just prefer they take the guy now.

[bucksfan2]

If they think Burrow is what he looks like, then I think you have to pass on just about anything.

Would you have traded Peyton Manning out of college for 3 firsts and a 1 & 3?

I'm not saying Burrow is Manning, I'm just saying I don't know what the price is on a true franchise top 3-5 QB. I think it would need to be so high, and then process be carried out so competently, the second half of which the Bengals would fail with, so I would just prefer they take the guy now.

I wouldn't do that for Manning, wouldn't have done that for Luck. I don't think Burrow is that kind of pick, both Manning and Luck were the #1 overall pick for multiple years, Burrow was a mid-round pick at the start of this season.

But I do remember a time when Alex Smith went #1 overall and Aaron Rodgers slid to late in the 1st round. So with QB's you never really knows, that is why if a team like Miami is offering you 4 1st rounders, you have to listen.

I think there is some serious debate as to what is better Burrow or Tua/Herbert/Love, Mekhi Becton, and Xavier McKinney (Using SI's mock draft but subbing out Swift because RB makes no sense.) Plus having another #1 next season.

I know some people are sold on Burrow being the franchise QB for a decade moving forward. I am not suggesting taking Young over Burrow, but I think if you have a guy you like as much or maybe even more than Burrow, and you can accumulate a massive amount of picks, you have to consider it. In the last 20 drafts, if you look at the list of #1 overall picks, there have been some great players, nice players, and some after thoughts. Murry, Mayfield, Goff, Winston, Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford, Russell, Smith, Eli, Palmer, and Vick. By my count, zero HOF's, one MVP season, two super bowl victories, and really only one (or two) I would have mortgaged the future in order to get, Luck.

I think the allure of the #1 overall pick is you get a guy who will be great, but the reality is much more mixed. Its why I say I think you have to consider an insane offer, because history tells you, that offer may be better than what you pick.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If they think Burrow is what he looks like, then I think you have to pass on just about anything.

Would you have traded Peyton Manning out of college for 3 firsts and a 1 & 3?

I'm not saying Burrow is Manning, I'm just saying I don't know what the price is on a true franchise top 3-5 QB. I think it would need to be so high, and then process be carried out so competently, the second half of which the Bengals would fail with, so I would just prefer they take the guy now.

I mean that hypothetical would basically net you Tua plus three more first round draft picks.

[RiverRat13]

I think the allure of the #1 overall pick is you get a guy who will be great, but the reality is much more mixed. Its why I say I think you have to consider an insane offer, because history tells you, that offer may be better than what you pick.

While for the most part I agree with this, picks still have to be turned into players. The Browns were widely celebrated for trading back with the Falcons when Atlanta took Julio Jones, but the Browns then turned those picks into Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, Brandon Weeden and (by trading up using an Atlanta 4th round pick) Trent Richardson. So while there are risks with staying at #1, there are also risks with taking quantity instead of quality.

[Bob Sheed]

I don't think the Bengals have the luxury of being a Quarterback-centric team. Even if they land a potential HoF QB, the Steelers will just injure him before any of that comes to fruition. It's what the Steelers do, and the Bengals are who they do it to.

Remember Dalton's "MVP" season? What happened there?
Remember Palmer's? What happened there?

The Bengals would be well advised to take the best offer they can get for the #1 pick, and then start throwing darts at the draft board, since they are also unable to evaluate draft talent with their 2 scouts.

A team that is ran like the Bengals, needs to be defense-oriented. Just ignore the offense, and try to build the 2000 Ravens. And then just unload on the Steelers 2 times a year. It's the only satisfaction that Bengals fans can ever hope to enjoy.

Otherwise, you already know how this will play out. Burrow will set the world on fire in his rookie season, the Steelers will cheap-shot him in their last meeting of the season, and there will be no consequences. It's what the Steelers do, and the Bengals are who they do it to. For 50 years and counting, honestly...

[WrongVerb]

I don't think the Bengals have the luxury of being a Quarterback-centric team. Even if they land a potential HoF QB, the Steelers will just injure him before any of that comes to fruition. It's what the Steelers do, and the Bengals are who they do it to.

Remember Dalton's "MVP" season? What happened there?
Remember Palmer's? What happened there?

The Bengals would be well advised to take the best offer they can get for the #1 pick, and then start throwing darts at the draft board, since they are also unable to evaluate draft talent with their 2 scouts.

A team that is ran like the Bengals, needs to be defense-oriented. Just ignore the offense, and try to build the 2000 Ravens. And then just unload on the Steelers 2 times a year. It's the only satisfaction that Bengals fans can ever hope to enjoy.

Otherwise, you already know how this will play out. Burrow will set the world on fire in his rookie season, the Steelers will cheap-shot him in their last meeting of the season, and there will be no consequences. It's what the Steelers do, and the Bengals are who they do it to. For 50 years and counting, honestly...

Glad I'm not the only one seeing this coming. They'll use the excuse that a lot more QBs that weren't selected 1-1 have won Super Bowls than those that were. They'll find some way to justify not taking Burrow. Or taking him and then trading him for Herbert or Tua and a bunch of picks.

To paraphrase Metallica: Beware that light at the end of the tunnel, Bengals fans

[Sea Ray]

Bengals love franchise QBs. They don't like short, injury prone ones like Tagovailoa. I am very confident that Burrow's their guy. They do not have a history of trading down in the 1st rd. If we go by what they've done for generations, they'll pick Burrow. After that, it gets dicey. But it's not in their DNA to get fancy and go River Boat Gambler and stockpile picks. That's not what they do

[Sea Ray]

As was mentioned in redszone a month ago, that the Bengals are Coaching one side of the Senior Bowl is huge. It helped them out when Marvin did it, and I think it helps just as much this time around. I sure hope they trade sone Veterans in order to acquire some more picks. They are in a great position to take advantage of it.

It is huge. It's a great opportunity considering that they'll have the first pick on 3 different days. This gives them the chance to carefully pick the best guy overlooked the previous day. It'll also give them the opportunity to trade those picks on day 2 or 3 to another team that HAS to get their guy. They cannot follow up Burrow with another Drew Sample or Malik Jefferson. Just can't

[North]

I'm not certain you can learn that much at the Senior Bowl....it's a jovial atmosphere. It's likely a bit more useful to the Bengals because they do so little scouting, but that can present a danger to them. Because they are so impressionable, unprepared, arrogant - pick your adjective - it doesn't take much to wow them.

So they end up doing things like spending a #9 pick on a John Ross.

[WVRed]

I think the Bengals are locked in to Burrow. But what if the Dolphins offered them their 3 first rounders this season as well as a 1 and 3 next season? You have to take something insane like that. Even more so if you think the Dolphins will be in the bottom half next season.

It’ll take a Mike Ditka sized offer from Miami to even come close.

[Big Red Smokey]

There is no chance they're passing on taking the QB who just had the best season in the history of College Football.

They finally tanked at the right time. Once again, a QB on a rookie deal is the most valuable commodity in sports. Could care less what any offer they get would be. You don't take it.

[Redsfaithful]

I mean that hypothetical would basically net you Tua plus three more first round draft picks.

Yeah, and I think Tua probably ends up a very good NFL QB but I'll pass on the Bengals taking the guy who is already hurt fairly seriously, I feel like I have a crystal ball with how that would play out. I realize I probably sound like Bob here, but who can legitimately say they think Tua wouldn't end up out of the NFL in a short time because of his hip if the Bengals took him?

[North]

Yeah, and I think Tua probably ends up a very good NFL QB but I'll pass on the Bengals taking the guy who is already hurt fairly seriously, I feel like I have a crystal ball with how that would play out. I realize I probably sound like Bob here, but who can legitimately say they think Tua wouldn't end up out of the NFL in a short time because of his hip if the Bengals took him?

I share your concern. That's their track record.

[GAC]

JMO ... while one should obviously listen to any and all possible offers, you don't put yourself in a box, you ARE in the "driver's seat (so to speak) ... regardless of his immense talent and potential, when I sit back and think of all the positives he can bring to not only this team, but Cincinnati, and you could assign some sort of "value" to it? ... there's nothing these other organizations could offer me to be honest.

Why are these organizations so willing to give up future year's first round picks, do whatever it takes, to land this kid? Hmmmm, must be something special huh?

But take it from a fan of that team up North .... don't be Cleveland and do what they did trading away, stockpiling picks for 2-3 years, fielding crappy teams, always looking to that future "right moment" to make their move while telling their fans to be patient. Excuse me - we've been patient, and you're passing over some solid talent (needs) just to stockpile picks. Are you gonna wait till you get the first eleven picks in the first round and draft you entire offensive team all at once (LOL)?

We're talking a possible franchise, star QB for years in the league. The most key position on that field. But what does it take to reach "elite"? You obviously need the physical athleticism, good arm; but there are two other qualities that, IMO, I think Burrow excels at ...

1) Leadership. He looks to be a strong, take control leader, understands the importance of the role.

but most important ...

2) His head. He's a quick thinker/decision-maker. Smart. This is what makes a QB, IMO, elite and separates them from the rest of the pack. Time (seconds) is of the essence. And as things unfold, this kid sees, analyzes, processes, reacts very quickly and with determination. I'm beginning to think he has a Intel Core Processor for a brain (LOL). He possesses the tools for a very balanced attack.

Just get your field general better troop support.

It would be a most disgusting feeling to see them trade this pick away, and then watch him excel for some other organization. Would really stick in my craw!

[bucksfan2]

There is no chance they're passing on taking the QB who just had the best season in the history of College Football.

They finally tanked at the right time. Once again, a QB on a rookie deal is the most valuable commodity in sports. Could care less what any offer they get would be. You don't take it.

The best season in college football is awfully subjective. Yes Burrow put up all kinds of records this season, but the game has changed dramatically over the past decade.

I don't think a Ditka type of package will get it done, Miami has 3 #1's this year, that plus another #1 should get your attention. Ditka offered his entire draft class, which I don't think the Bengals should even consider.

If you could walk out of the 2020 draft with Tua, Start OT, and Starting DE, plus a #1 pick in 2021, that is one heck of an offer to pass up.

[Sea Ray]

The best season in college football is awfully subjective. Yes Burrow put up all kinds of records this season, but the game has changed dramatically over the past decade.

I don't think a Ditka type of package will get it done, Miami has 3 #1's this year, that plus another #1 should get your attention. Ditka offered his entire draft class, which I don't think the Bengals should even consider.

If you could walk out of the 2020 draft with Tua, Start OT, and Starting DE, plus a #1 pick in 2021, that is one heck of an offer to pass up.

If Burrow turns out to be better than Tua the trade's a bust and you're the laughing stock of the NFL (I know we already are but don't we want that to end?). If Burrow turns into Joe Montana then we become the Boston Red Sox who sold Babe Ruth and it becomes a 100 yr curse. No, the only option here is to take Burrow. Anything other than that is riverboat gambling and the Bengals don't do that

[Hillsdale87]

If Burrow turns out to be better than Tua the trade's a bust and you're the laughing stock of the NFL (I know we already are but don't we want that to end?). If Burrow turns into Joe Montana then we become the Boston Red Sox who sold Babe Ruth and it becomes a 100 yr curse. No, the only option here is to take Burrow. Anything other than that is riverboat gambling and the Bengals don't do that

That goes 2 ways though. You also could draft Akili Smith when you had the option to trade down and load up on draft picks. I don't think Burrow is Akili Smith, but the Bengals should be making the decision based on what is best for the organization, not what will draw the least potential criticism (even though that's how most decisions get made, and not just for the Bengals).

I think it really depends on Tua's medicals. Most had Tua projected slightly ahead of Burrow before the injury, so it wouldn't be shocking if the Bengals actually have healthy Tua above Burrow. In that case, I'd have no issues with the Bengals trading back a bit, loading up on picks, and still getting a QB they're very confident in.

Of course, if the medicals are good for Tua, that also significantly reduces the chance that Miami would want to trade up to #1 as they could hold their picks and still get a good QB.

[membengal]

The best season in college football is awfully subjective. Yes Burrow put up all kinds of records this season, but the game has changed dramatically over the past decade.

I don't think a Ditka type of package will get it done, Miami has 3 #1's this year, that plus another #1 should get your attention. Ditka offered his entire draft class, which I don't think the Bengals should even consider.

If you could walk out of the 2020 draft with Tua, Start OT, and Starting DE, plus a #1 pick in 2021, that is one heck of an offer to pass up.

Easy to pass up. Tua carries massive career injury risk, this team is perfectly capable of whiffing on other picks (see Sample, Ogbuihi, the 2015-2017 Browns who stockpiled and whiffed all over the place while passing on premium passing talent), and Burrow is the best chance at a transcendent player at the most important position on the field. Toss in that no guarantee you even get Tua if some other team trades up to 3 or 4, giving you effectively Herbert, and I laugh at that package for Burrow.

[membengal]

Trading back to #5 overall does NOT ensure this team gets Tua...plenty of teams could jump to 3 or 4 and snag him. Trading back comes with the risk that you end up having to talk yourself into the 3rd or 4th best QB in this draft when you could just stay put and spin the franchise QB wheel on Burrow. I have yet to see a realistic trade package for Burrow that I would even come close to considering.

And that's not even considering the positive momentum with the fanbase that is trashed if they pass on Burrow to trade back...

[Rdirtypirates]

Trading back to #5 overall does NOT ensure this team gets Tua...plenty of teams could jump to 3 or 4 and snag him. Trading back comes with the risk that you end up having to talk yourself into the 3rd or 4th best QB in this draft when you could just stay put and spin the franchise QB wheel on Burrow. I have yet to see a realistic trade package for Burrow that I would even come close to considering.

And that's not even considering the positive momentum with the fanbase that is trashed if they pass on Burrow to trade back...

Yeah, if they pass on Burrow that will destroy the Bengal fanbase regardless of the package. I have never been a Tua fan, I think he was overhyped even before the injury, but Burrow checks all the boxes. No way you can pass on him. Plus he is a local kid, there is never gonna be a more perfect pick to change this franchise.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Trading back to #5 overall does NOT ensure this team gets Tua...plenty of teams could jump to 3 or 4 and snag him. Trading back comes with the risk that you end up having to talk yourself into the 3rd or 4th best QB in this draft when you could just stay put and spin the franchise QB wheel on Burrow. I have yet to see a realistic trade package for Burrow that I would even come close to considering.

And that's not even considering the positive momentum with the fanbase that is trashed if they pass on Burrow to trade back...

Yeah I was going to add this point. The current teams 2-4 aren’t taking a QB, but the Lions will almost definitely trade out of that spot for a team that wants Tua (this is almost definitely going to be the Patriots and I’ll be livid) and that would leave the Bengals without either and looking at Herbert, who I don’t think is in that same tier, although he is going to crush the combine.


But again this is all based on the hypothetical that the Dolphins are going to drop their three first rounders and some more stuff, which I think they are unlikely to do anyway, just banter.

[Bob Sheed]

I hope they draft Burrow. It gives me something shiny to watch in this Groundhog Day franchise.

But again, the smart move is to trade down for a combination of proven difference makers on defense, and draft picks which should also be used on defense.

Then let Dalton play out his final year with Trent Dilfer expectations instead of Tom Brady expectations.

Otherwise, Burrow becomes the next Greg Cook as soon as he's a blip on the Steelers radar. Hell it'll probably be Tomlin himself that trips Burrow from the sideline, shattering his knee.

Then the NFL will award Tomlin Defensive Player of the Week and that will be that.

[WrongVerb]

If the Bengals were going to trade the first pick and select Tua or Herbert, their best strategy would be to select Burrow at the top of the draft, then trade with a team like Miami with Herbert and/or Tua on the board.

[Bob Sheed]

If the Bengals were going to trade the first pick and select Tua or Herbert, their best strategy would be to select Burrow at the top of the draft, then trade with a team like Miami with Herbert and/or Tua on the board.

This is a great idea.

I'm trying to imagine the Brown Family Braintrust trying to pull this off in real-time... :lol:

Mike Brown: "Let's do it! Let's trade down and stockpile picks!"

Draft Moderator: "I'm sorry Mr. Brown, but you ran out of time. 3 days ago. The draft is over, and your picks have been forfeited due to lack of response."

Mike Brown: "Oh well, we'll go to war with what we have."

[KoryMac5]

Ummm no...when you have a QB that has just had the greatest college season of all time staring you in the face you make that pick. You don't pass on him for picks...you take him and build around him. I would rather have a 5 yr window to build then to continue to ride the treadmill of mediocrity.

Do you listen to offers absolutely...but ask yourself are the Rams in better shape because of the RG III trade...I would say no as they have no players on their roster from that haul of a trade.


https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2017/06/15/the-rams-got-almost-nothing-out-of-the-rgiii-trade/

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ummm no...when you have a QB that has just had the greatest college season of all time staring you in the face you make that pick. You don't pass on him for picks...you take him and build around him. I would rather have a 5 yr window to build then to continue to ride the treadmill of mediocrity.

Do you listen to offers absolutely...but ask yourself are the Rams in better shape because of the RG III trade...I would say no as they have no players on their roster from that haul of a trade.


https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2017/06/15/the-rams-got-almost-nothing-out-of-the-rgiii-trade/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/reassessing-titans-rams-jared-goff-trade-with-both-teams-currently-in-playoff-picture/

But I would say the Titans are in better shape because of their trade with the Rams. Lot of guys from that trade that were pivotal in them reaching the AFC Championship game. That was the largest draft haul in history though and I think someone would have to top it for the Bengals not to hang up though.

[bucksfan2]

Easy to pass up. Tua carries massive career injury risk, this team is perfectly capable of whiffing on other picks (see Sample, Ogbuihi, the 2015-2017 Browns who stockpiled and whiffed all over the place while passing on premium passing talent), and Burrow is the best chance at a transcendent player at the most important position on the field. Toss in that no guarantee you even get Tua if some other team trades up to 3 or 4, giving you effectively Herbert, and I laugh at that package for Burrow.

Any player who puts on a uniform carries a massive injury risk. Honestly, had Saben been smart, Tua isn't playing in the game he injured his hip, he probably should have suited up at all and let the ankle heal a little big longer. Freak injuries are just that, freak events. I don't think Tua has any propensity to hurt his hip again like he did.

The best QB in the game is Rodgers or Mahomes right now, neither were the #1 overall pick. I think there is a misconception that the #1 overall pick is a lock to succeed, but the results are mixed. I have no problem with Burrow being taken #1 overall. But I also would move the #1 overall pick if Miami came in with their three 1st rounders this season. I don't think Burrow is a generational type of player, he isn't that guy who has been sitting at the top of the draft since his debut in college. He is a guy who has a meteoric rise that we rarely see in college. Can he be good, absolutely, but I would be lying if I don't have concerns.

LI don't think Miami would give up all their picks, but for fun, lets assume they do. Even if you sit at #5 and don't get Burrow or Tua, you get Herbert and two other first rounders. You get a chance to rebuild your line and or defense. See, I think the Browns operated in a manner to really boost the overall quality of their team. I was not a fan of Baker, but that was their guy. I think their accumulation of draft talent was a very good move, they just lost their way with Freddie Kitchens, bringing in a flashy play in OBJ, and letting their line go to hell. They went for flash instead of meat and potatoes.

[KoryMac5]

GM of the Dolphins used to work for the Pats as did their coach...the Pats don't have a track record of trading up on draft day, they would rather move back and stockpile picks. I don't see them giving u all 3 of their picks on day 1 especially if they have burrow and Tua pretty closely rated.

[Redsfaithful]

The best season in college football is awfully subjective. Yes Burrow put up all kinds of records this season, but the game has changed dramatically over the past decade.

This is true, but he also passes the eye test. What he did in the playoffs was unreal. Felt very Patrick Mahomes.

[Sea Ray]

That goes 2 ways though. You also could draft Akili Smith when you had the option to trade down and load up on draft picks. I don't think Burrow is Akili Smith, but the Bengals should be making the decision based on what is best for the organization, not what will draw the least potential criticism (even though that's how most decisions get made, and not just for the Bengals).

I think it really depends on Tua's medicals. Most had Tua projected slightly ahead of Burrow before the injury, so it wouldn't be shocking if the Bengals actually have healthy Tua above Burrow. In that case, I'd have no issues with the Bengals trading back a bit, loading up on picks, and still getting a QB they're very confident in.

Of course, if the medicals are good for Tua, that also significantly reduces the chance that Miami would want to trade up to #1 as they could hold their picks and still get a good QB.

Forget the medicals. Doctors can't see the future. They can't tell you for sure whether Tua's hip will be a problem in his NFL career. But he is damaged goods. It makes no sense to take a risk on him when Burrow is sitting there.

I hope we don't waste too much time and energy bantering about whether the Bengals will take Burrow or not. Because it'd all be for naught when the Bengals pick him up in Las Vegas. I will be there at the Bellagio with my Bengal gear on as Joe walks across that red carpet

[ScotlandRed]

https://twitter.com/pff/status/1220126497282748416?s=21

PFF now suggesting Green to the Pats.

[JaxRed]

I will be there at the Bellagio with my Bengal gear on as Joe boards the boat to the stage


FIFY

[KoryMac5]

https://twitter.com/pff/status/1220126497282748416?s=21

PFF now suggesting Green to the Pats.

PFF must need clicks with the 2 week break before the bowl...Bengals have gone out of there way to say Green is a priority all this week. Doubt Green would fetch anything more then a 3rd from the Pats.

[Kingspoint]

Forget the medicals. Doctors can't see the future. They can't tell you for sure whether Tua's hip will be a problem in his NFL career. But he is damaged goods. It makes no sense to take a risk on him when Burrow is sitting there.

I hope we don't waste too much time and energy bantering about whether the Bengals will take Burrow or not. Because it'd all be for naught when the Bengals pick him up in Las Vegas. I will be there at the Bellagio with my Bengal gear on as Joe walks across that red carpet

Taking the over or under on wins for the Bengals while you are there?

[Kingspoint]

So, is this a future headline...

"Bungles Bury Burrow"

...or,...

"Burrow Buries Steelers"

[Redsfaithful]

I will be there at the Bellagio with my Bengal gear on as Joe walks across that red carpet

Ooh, I didn't know it was Vegas. That's tempting.

[GAC]

Easy to pass up. Tua carries massive career injury risk, this team is perfectly capable of whiffing on other picks (see Sample, Ogbuihi, the 2015-2017 Browns who stockpiled and whiffed all over the place while passing on premium passing talent), and Burrow is the best chance at a transcendent player at the most important position on the field. Toss in that no guarantee you even get Tua if some other team trades up to 3 or 4, giving you effectively Herbert, and I laugh at that package for Burrow.

Yep. A few years back I read some articles that the Brown's front office position, under Haslam, had shifted their approach .... because the organization had such a terrible history, luck, whatever, getting burned badly in drafting QBs (finding anyone to fill the job) .... they wanted to build/improve the support structure first, put the team in a better position, THEN go get your QB and plug him in.

The only problem? .... what are you passing over? What happens if your QB isn't there when you need him, or you aren't in the position to draft them before the opposition because you managed to win three games that year (LOL)? IMO, you're taking far more risks and will never show much improvement on that plane if you take such an approach to the most important position on that field.

Tua?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/pro-football-doc/story/2019-12-04/tua-tagovailoa-alabama-nfl-draft-injury-hip-money


Tagovailoa suffered a right hip dislocation with posterior wall fracture. The hope is he can avoid a “Bo Jackson” situation where avascular necrosis (AVN), which is a lack of blood supply to the ball of the femur, causes the bone and overlying cartilage to die out.

Even if he avoids this, Tagovailoa cannot avoid the inevitable post-traumatic arthritis. He also has had two ankle surgeries.

Wish the kid all the luck in the world ... but that's a pretty traumatic injury, and high potential of risk, looking at the physical job requirements. He's a banged up, busted up "Cam Newton" coming out of college.

[RiverRat13]

Normally I would be against paying AJ at his age, but Burrow needs all the help he can get.

Extending Mixon is probably a dumb move (it's probably not very smart to give ANY RB a 2nd contract) analytically but I'll be okay with it for the sake of helping Burrow as well.

[Benihana]

Yep. A few years back I read some articles that the Brown's front office position, under Haslam, had shifted their approach .... because the organization had such a terrible history, luck, whatever, getting burned badly in drafting QBs (finding anyone to fill the job) .... they wanted to build/improve the support structure first, put the team in a better position, THEN go get your QB and plug him in.

The only problem? .... what are you passing over? What happens if your QB isn't there when you need him, or you aren't in the position to draft them before the opposition because you managed to win three games that year (LOL)? IMO, you're taking far more risks and will never show much improvement on that plane if you take such an approach to the most important position on that field.

Tua?

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/pro-football-doc/story/2019-12-04/tua-tagovailoa-alabama-nfl-draft-injury-hip-money



Wish the kid all the luck in the world ... but that's a pretty traumatic injury, and high potential of risk, looking at the physical job requirements. He's a banged up, busted up "Cam Newton" coming out of college.

Exactly, passing on Mahomes and Watson for Baker doesn’t look all that bright, at least in hindsight.

That said, I have it on very good authority that Watson purposefully tanked his pre-draft interview with the Browns, on advice from his advisors.

[Benihana]

Bengals have to take Burrow, plain and simple. I wouldn’t trade the pick for anything less than four first rounders or Pat Mahomes himself. When you’re convinced you have the opportunity to draft a true franchise QB, you have to take it.

[membengal]

Normally I would be against paying AJ at his age, but Burrow needs all the help he can get.

Extending Mixon is probably a dumb move (it's probably not very smart to give ANY RB a 2nd contract) analytically but I'll be okay with it for the sake of helping Burrow as well.

You know what would help unlock Mixon's full potential under a potential contract extension? Joe Burrow - who absolutely made excellent use of Edwards-Hellaire this year and knows how to get the ball to his RB in areas where they can do something with it...

[Chip R]

Bengals have to take Burrow, plain and simple. I wouldn’t trade the pick for anything less than four first rounders or Pat Mahomes himself. When you’re convinced you have the opportunity to draft a true franchise QB, you have to take it.

Did you see how they are going to do the 1st round of the draft? You just know something's going to happen to the boat when Burrow's on it and he either hurts himself or drowns.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/21/nfl-draft-2020-las-vegas-boat-red-carpet

[Sea Ray]

PFF must need clicks with the 2 week break before the bowl...Bengals have gone out of there way to say Green is a priority all this week. Doubt Green would fetch anything more then a 3rd from the Pats.

Since Green would fetch us a 3rd in comp picks it makes no sense to trade him for such a pittance. The writing's on the wall. He will be franchised and he'll either play or sit out the year. I doubt his best interests will be served by sitting out the yr given his age and all the time he's missed. He will complain and moan about the Bengals but franchising him is the right move

[Sea Ray]

FIFY

Thanks.

He'll still walk across that red carpet but he'll take a boat to get there.

I am fortunate enough to have business connections to the Venetian in Vegas. I'll be there with about a dozen buddies. Much to my wife's chagrin it's a no girls allowed party. (I didn't set the rules.)

[Bob Sheed]

What ever happened to the who Patriots spying on the Bengals thing?

[Redsfaithful]

My prediction is Green signs a 2 or 3 year deal.

[membengal]

Jeremy Rauch
@FOX19Jeremy
·
2h
Replying to
@FOX19Jeremy
Family source also tells me Joe Burrow would never “pull an Eli Manning” if drafted No. 1 by the #Bengals.

The family has been a bit annoyed by that narrative.

[membengal]

https://twitter.com/Ben_Baby/status/1220429205172781062

[Kingspoint]

Normally I would be against paying AJ at his age, but Burrow needs all the help he can get.

Extending Mixon is probably a dumb move (it's probably not very smart to give ANY RB a 2nd contract) analytically but I'll be okay with it for the sake of helping Burrow as well.

This makes a lot of sense.

[Kingspoint]

Thanks.

He'll still walk across that red carpet but he'll take a boat to get there.

I am fortunate enough to have business connections to the Venetian in Vegas. I'll be there with about a dozen buddies. Much to my wife's chagrin it's a no girls allowed party. (I didn't set the rules.)
Fred and Barney got into a lot of trouble trying that one.

[Kingspoint]

Since Green would fetch us a 3rd in comp picks it makes no sense to trade him for such a pittance. The writing's on the wall. He will be franchised and he'll either play or sit out the year. I doubt his best interests will be served by sitting out the yr given his age and all the time he's missed. He will complain and moan about the Bengals but franchising him is the right move

He said today he'd be stupid to turn down $18M for one year (the frachise tag amount).

[Sea Ray]

My prediction is Green signs a 2 or 3 year deal.

I hope you're right but I'm not seeing it. Bengals will rightfully lowball him due to their concerns that he hasn't proven his health and he will whine to the press that they're disrespecting him

[Hillsdale87]

I hope you're right but I'm not seeing it. Bengals will rightfully lowball him due to their concerns that he hasn't proven his health and he will whine to the press that they're disrespecting him

If they're not going to spend significantly in free agency then they need to spend the money on Green. They have money to spend, so letting Green go would be a disaster unless they've got other plans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Powel Crosley]

Interview with AJ: https://twitter.com/Elise_JesseWLWT/status/1220383120463220736

[WVRed]

I hope there is nothing to this:


https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/23/senior-bowl-justin-herbert-bengals-joe-burrow/

[BuckeyeRed27]

I hope there is nothing to this:


https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/23/senior-bowl-justin-herbert-bengals-joe-burrow/

I said earlier that Herbert is going to crush the combine and be the guy that everyone is talking about and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up going before Tua. But the Bengals aren’t taking him over Burrow at 1.

[WVRed]

I said earlier that Herbert is going to crush the combine and be the guy that everyone is talking about and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up going before Tua. But the Bengals aren’t taking him over Burrow at 1.

It’s possible but I see him being more Paxton Lynch than anything.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It’s possible but I see him being more Paxton Lynch than anything.

I’d be surprised by that. Seems like a Matt Stafford type.

[Kingspoint]

Tua has major health issues. No franchise should have him rated over Herbert.

[Sea Ray]

I hope there is nothing to this:


https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/23/senior-bowl-justin-herbert-bengals-joe-burrow/

I'm not the least bit worried about it. Although Herbert does have the "combine" skills, he lacks what the Bengals cherish most: accuracy. If you're an NFL nerd like me and you watch a little of the Senior Bowl practices, you'll see what the Bengals' coaches are seeing: a guy who's making his receiver work to catch the ball...even on screens to RBs with no defenders. With no JB on the board they might be tempted. Oregon is not the only thing Herbert has in common with Akili Smith

[WrongVerb]

Taking Herbert at 1-1 would be the most Bengals thing ever.

[KoryMac5]

Taking Herbert at 1-1 would be the most Bengals thing ever.

Would never happen...no matter how inept the franchise can be sometimes no way Herbert goes before Burrow.

However the thought does often cross my mind as to how they are going to screw this up.

[membengal]

I hope there is nothing to this:


https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/23/senior-bowl-justin-herbert-bengals-joe-burrow/

You linked a click bait article that concluded - no - only in the unlikely event they trade down. There’s literally nothing in that article but rank speculation based on obvious quotes that we all knew would happen this week because Herbert is in mobile and burrow is not and bengals coaches can only comment on Herbert.

- - - Updated - - -


Taking Herbert at 1-1 would be the most Bengals thing ever.

Stop trolling.

[WrongVerb]

You linked a click bait article that concluded - no - only in the unlikely event they trade down. There’s literally nothing in that article but rank speculation based on obvious quotes that we all knew would happen this week because Herbert is in mobile and burrow is not and bengals coaches can only comment on Herbert.

- - - Updated - - -



Stop trolling.

Not trolling. Just deeply cynical about the Bengals after 30 years of ineptitude.

[membengal]

I get it, but EVERY post from you in here for about a month can't seem to deal in some sort of reality and instead posits the worst possible outcome. You are not the only person who has lived through those years. I just saw a mock draft on sportsline.com that has Herbert in the second round. I think we can sack up a bit and stop assuming the extraordinary worst in every scenario. Since 2003 this team has basically had 2 quarterbacks - so, whatever else their flaws - they properly assessed Palmer and, later, Dalton (for all his flaws). I am pretty damn sure that they will properly assess Burrow and know exactly what they have with him. We already know from Tobin that Callahan and Van Pelt have literally watched every Burrow snap and that Zac is just about there as well. The only thing they haven't done YET is meet with him. And everything we know about Burrow is that there will be zero issues with regard to the interviews. He's smart and he gets it. So, really, I am failing to grasp the need to assume the worst in this particular situation OR to buy into the national talking heads who are filling time by making up scenarios that are not based in reality. There is no need for this board or the fanbase to spend the next ten weeks freaking out over shadows.

[Sea Ray]

I get it, but EVERY post from you in here for about a month can't seem to deal in some sort of reality. You are not the only person who has lived through those years. I just saw a mock draft on sportsline.com that has Herbert in the second round. I think we can sack up a bit and stop assuming the extraordinary worst in every scenario. Since 2003 this team has basically had 2 quarterbacks. I am pretty damn sure that they will properly assess Burrow and know exactly what they have with him. There is no need for this board or the fanbase to spend the next ten weeks freaking out over shadows.

Dan is on record many times here predicting that the Bengals will not take Burrow. He will be proven wrong soon enough. Dan is wrong about a lot of things

[Bob Sheed]

Actually, it would be the most Bengal thing ever to select Burrow with the 1st pick, and turn down every offer to trade down.

Which in this case is hopefully a good thing.

[membengal]

It's 2020, and I am declaring all curses broken. It's a new day, we have a potential franchise QB on the way who just shone brightest on the biggest stages, and fought for years to get to that spot (it didn't come easy for Burrow). I then watched Baltimore and Houston go through Bengals-esque playoff meltdowns (Andy Dalton and Lamar Jackson have the same number of playoff wins). I am here to say, the curse has moved on, they will take Burrow, and better days are ahead. Let's be confident.

[Sea Ray]

It's 2020, and I am declaring all curses broken. It's a new day, we have a potential franchise QB on the way who just shone brightest on the biggest stages, and fought for years to get to that spot (it didn't come easy for Burrow). I then watched Baltimore and Houston go through Bengals-esque playoff meltdowns (Andy Dalton and Lamar Jackson have the same number of playoff wins). I am here to say, the curse has moved on, they will take Burrow, and better days are ahead. Let's be confident.

:thumbup:

[WrongVerb]

Dan is on record many times here predicting that the Bengals will not take Burrow. He will be proven wrong soon enough. Dan is wrong about a lot of things

I'd rather take a genuine stand than post something just to be "provocative."

That said, the point is taken. I've probably gotten a bit excessive about the Bengals. While I reserve my right to post in whatever style I wish (within the forum guidelines), I'll do my best to dial it back.

[Sea Ray]

I'd rather take a stand than post something just to be "provocative."

That said, the point is taken. I've probably gotten a bit excessive about the Bengals. I'll do my best to dial it back.

I've taken a stand. In case you missed it, I'll repeat it just for you:

The Bengals will definitely take Joe Burrow with the first pick in the draft. I don't think I can take a more definitive stand than that. You are on record as saying that they'll not take Burrow with the #1 pick.

[WrongVerb]

I've taken a stand. In case you missed it, I'll repeat it just for you:

The Bengals will definitely take Joe Burrow with the first pick in the draft. I don't think I can take a more definitive stand than that. You are on record as saying that they'll not take Burrow with the #1 pick.

Whether I'm right or not seems much more important to you than it is to me. I find that quite curious. For me, I honestly could not care less whether I get this one right or not.

[WrongVerb]

OK...backing out of this thread for awhile.

[Sea Ray]

There are a couple of hurdles to go

1. Burrow getting hurt tonight.

2. That Mike & Co. get enamored with one of the Senior Bowl quarterbacks, decide he's their man, and trade out of the top spot for value, value, VALUE !!!


If #1 doesn't happen, then I'd lay money that #2 will. If there's any team that will go to great lengths to sabotage its own success, it's the Bengals.

#1 didn't happen. Burrow came out of that game healthy. You are on record. I could post more of your predictions that the Bengals will not pick Burrow but I'll spare you and just add one more:


This. Any other organization, and these types of comments wouldn't be concerning. But with the Bengals, here you are.

Speaking of which, the day that Mike Brown said something along the lines of "we're not interested in making other teams better" was the day my interest in the team went from fanatical to perverse. I'm only in it now to see just how badly they will screw this up.

The Bengals may very well screw up the rest of the draft but they are going to pick Burrow #1. As I've documented many times, it'd be consistent with their history that they'd pick Burrow #1. MB doesn't have to change or "turn over a new leaf" to choose the best QB #1. This is what he's programmed to do.

We don't need you to dial back. Just come up with a new thought. We know where you stand on this

[Sea Ray]

Whether I'm right or not seems much more important to you than it is to me. I find that quite curious. For me, I honestly could not care less whether I get this one right or not.

If you don't care about the Bengals then why are you here and why have you said sooo many times that the Bengals will screw this up? I don't accuse people of trolling often but to continually come in with the same negative mantra about a subject you don't care much about is the classic definition of trolling behavior. That pretty well checks all the boxes

[Redsfaithful]

Lap did a Q&A, covered here:

https://twitter.com/Jake_NFL/status/1220769817034182664

Lap says it's gonna be Burrow and he's always right about this stuff, so that really can be put to bed now. Also confirms they will try to trade Dalton somewhere he can start.


Hobs+Lap's thought summary:
- Dalton trade likely
- 1: Burrow
- 2: Defense, consider trading back depending on how far back
- FA budget unclear. Hobs doesn't think they'll target tier 1 guys, Lap talks about flexibility with a rookie QB contract

That $$$ flexibility comment on rookie QB deal is new I think coming from someone close to the Bengals.

[Ohayou]

FWIW, Bill Lazor is the new OC at Chicago.

[Oxilon]

Since when do the Bengals target tier one free agents anyways? The only question is if this is at Mike Brown’s discretion or Katie’s. If it’s the latter, then I don’t see why the next 30 years would be any different then the last.

[Redhook]

If you don't care about the Bengals then why are you here and why have you said sooo many times that the Bengals will screw this up? I don't accuse people of trolling often but to continually come in with the same negative mantra about a subject you don't care much about is the classic definition of trolling behavior. That pretty well checks all the boxes

This is an overreaction. He said he doesn’t care if he gets his prediction right about the pick, not that’s he doesn’t care about the Bengals. And, I would argue that you’d have to be incredibly deranged to spend this much time in a Bengals forum while not being a fan. It’s hard enough discussing them as life long fans, I couldn’t imagine wasting ones time discussing one of the worst franchises in the history of sports just to troll. And last, he and any lifelong Bengal fan has every right to question anything the Bengals do. They’ve proven they will screw it up if possible.

[GAC]

I'd rather take a genuine stand than post something just to be "provocative."

That said, the point is taken. I've probably gotten a bit excessive about the Bengals. While I reserve my right to post in whatever style I wish (within the forum guidelines), I'll do my best to dial it back.

I don't care if you're a Bengal or Brown fan .... IMO, that fan has every right to be skeptical and act like they're from Missouri based on their team's decision-making abilities. They rightly earned those titles Bungals and Clowns until they actually prove other wise.

But I actually do see better days for both organizations. At least the "window" is there (as long as they don't shut it themselves with stupidity).

[WVRed]

I don't care if you're a Bengal or Brown fan .... IMO, that fan has every right to be skeptical and act like they're from Missouri based on their team's decision-making abilities. They rightly earned those titles Bungals and Clowns until they actually prove other wise.

But I actually do see better days for both organizations. At least the "window" is there (as long as they don't shut it themselves with stupidity).

There is a window, but I wonder how open it will be going up against the Ravens at least until Lamar Jackson gets hurt. I can’t see either team leapfrogging Baltimore currently.

As for Pittsburgh, their window is closing with Roethlisberger and even though they are built on defense this season proves they don’t have a signal caller or any semblance of an offense moving forward.

[Sea Ray]

This is an overreaction. He said he doesn’t care if he gets his prediction right about the pick, not that’s he doesn’t care about the Bengals. And, I would argue that you’d have to be incredibly deranged to spend this much time in a Bengals forum while not being a fan. It’s hard enough discussing them as life long fans, I couldn’t imagine wasting ones time discussing one of the worst franchises in the history of sports just to troll. And last, he and any lifelong Bengal fan has every right to question anything the Bengals do. They’ve proven they will screw it up if possible.

It's irrelevant if he's a Bengal fan or not. All are welcome to post here. I also don't see what difference it makes if he cares or not cares about the Bengals. What he did do was continually post the same very negative (and unfounded) point about the Bengals not picking Burrow. After being called on it he says that he doesn't really care that much about his prediction.

[Sea Ray]

This is an overreaction. He said he doesn’t care if he gets his prediction right about the pick, not that’s he doesn’t care about the Bengals. And, I would argue that you’d have to be incredibly deranged to spend this much time in a Bengals forum while not being a fan. It’s hard enough discussing them as life long fans, I couldn’t imagine wasting ones time discussing one of the worst franchises in the history of sports just to troll. And last, he and any lifelong Bengal fan has every right to question anything the Bengals do. They’ve proven they will screw it up if possible.

I disagree with you that I overreacted to Dan's comments. I also see that this is your first post in this thread. That fact sure gives the impression that you are merely a hired gun to come in here and defend Dan. Regardless of that, I wish your primary purpose was to discuss Bengal football and not to voice your opinion on what's trolling or to defend a buddy on RZ.

[Redhook]

I disagree with you that I overreacted to Dan's comments. I also see that this is your first post in this thread. That fact sure gives the impression that you are merely a hired gun to come in here and defend Dan. Regardless of that, I wish your primary purpose was to discuss Bengal football and not to voice your opinion on what's trolling or to defend a buddy on RZ.

You’re certainly interesting, but really really out there on this one. I was just trying to defend a fellow Redszoner, who I’ve never met nor have any history with on Redszone. I believe calling him a troll was uncalled for.

Additionally, I’ve posted many many times in Bengal threads over the last 14 years of being a member of Redszone. And, if you’re going to snoop around and make very ignorant comments, do a better a job of it. Look at the recently closed 2019 Bengals thread. We actually had a conversation just 2 months ago in there. I grew up and lived in Cincinnati most of my life and I’m a huge Bengals fan. I don’t post as much as I used to because......life.

On a different note, I completely disagree with Wrongverb on why we’re having this little spat. The Bengals will absolutely pick Burrow. Barring an injury, it’s a done deal. And, I couldn’t be happier about it. I believe he’s their only chance of having a winning season again before the lease is up. Burrow equals real hope, something we haven’t had in awhile.

[Sea Ray]

You’re certainly interesting, but really really out there on this one. I was just trying to defend a fellow Redszoner, who I’ve never met nor have any history with on Redszone. I believe calling him a troll was uncalled for.

Additionally, I’ve posted many many times in Bengal threads over the last 14 years of being a member of Redszone. And, if you’re going to snoop around and make very ignorant comments, do a better a job of it. Look at the recently closed 2019 Bengals thread. We actually had a conversation just 2 months ago in there. I grew up and lived in Cincinnati most of my life and I’m a huge Bengals fan. I don’t post as much as I used to because......life.

On a different note, I completely disagree with Wrongverb on why we’re having this little spat. The Bengals will absolutely pick Burrow. Barring an injury, it’s a done deal. And, I couldn’t be happier about it. I believe he’s their only chance of having a winning season again before the lease is up. Burrow equals real hope, something we haven’t had in awhile.

I documented my reasons for describing his behavior as trolling. I stand by that and I rarely use that term around here. We disagree on that but we agree that your reason for jumping in was not to talk Bengals and we agree that the Bengals will take Burrow #1. Hey, two out of three ain't bad

[Redhook]

Paul Alexander
@CoachPaulAlex
HOLD ON ... don’t write in JOE BURROW as the 1st pick of the NFL DRAFT quite yet. There’s another choice ... JUSTIN HERBERT who is in the mix (along with CHASE YOUNG). As a 23 year Bengal ... I’m a pretty solid source.

Stay quiet Paul...lol. Drafting Herbert #1 would be the dumbest thing ever. Trading the #1 pick for 3 first-rounders and selecting Herbert with one of them would not be the dumbest thing ever (not my preference).

[Roy Tucker]

So far, about the only negative I’ve seen about Burrow is that he doesn’t like Skyline chili.

[Rdirtypirates]

Stay quiet Paul...lol. Drafting Herbert #1 would be the dumbest thing ever. Trading the #1 pick for 3 first-rounders and selecting Herbert with one of them would not be the dumbest thing ever (not my preference).

I like Herbert, but gosh this would be stupid, and so Bengals like.

[Bob Sheed]

"Howard Johnson is right about Olsen Johnson being right."

[KoryMac5]

As an organization it would be dumb to not evaluate Chase Young or Justin Herbert...I mean half way through the college season we were all still pretty split on the pick between Young and Burrow. The Bengals hold all the cards in this draft why show them to the other teams at this point.

We can bash them for a lot of things but doing there homework on other prospects is not a bad thing. Ultimately unless they dig something up on Burrow he's going to be the pick.

[Sea Ray]

Stay quiet Paul...lol. Drafting Herbert #1 would be the dumbest thing ever. Trading the #1 pick for 3 first-rounders and selecting Herbert with one of them would not be the dumbest thing ever (not my preference).

There's a reason Coach PaulAlex is unemployed right now

[WVRed]

As an organization it would be dumb to not evaluate Chase Young or Justin Herbert...I mean half way through the college season we were all still pretty split on the pick between Young and Burrow. The Bengals hold all the cards in this draft why show them to the other teams at this point.

We can bash them for a lot of things but doing there homework on other prospects is not a bad thing. Ultimately unless they dig something up on Burrow he's going to be the pick.

Agreed, and it’s not like Alexander is a credible source.

If Adam Schefter said it I would start to worry and he is pretty bullish on the Bengals taking Burrow.

[KoryMac5]

I also think we have to remember what drives Mike Brown and that is $$$$$$$....


Joe Burrow at 1 will drive ticket sales more then a pack of picks that would net Tua, Patrick Queen, and Austin Jackson.

[Sea Ray]

I also think we have to remember what drives Mike Brown and that is $$$$$$$....


Joe Burrow at 1 will drive ticket sales more then a pack of picks that would net Tua, Patrick Queen, and Austin Jackson.

That's true but any owner would be concerned about attendance given where it's been of late for this team. We shouldn't paint Mb as a money grubber if he wants to do things to boost attendance. In fact I'd say it's a good thing. It means that he's concerned about his customer's satisfaction. From a fan's standpoint it means that we were right to not buy tickets

[GAC]

There is a window, but I wonder how open it will be going up against the Ravens at least until Lamar Jackson gets hurt. I can’t see either team leapfrogging Baltimore currently.

The Ravens didn't make it out of the first round (twice) with Jackson at the helm. And in both of those games Jackson looked very human. My Browns put a hurtin' on them in their first meeting.

My point is.... the Bengals (and Browns) just need to take care of business. If Baltimore can do it, then so can they (IMO). You only face off twice a year. And while those games are important - they're not as important as how you do vs the rest of the schedule.

With the Ravens it's all about "containing" Lamar. Yes, a huge task, but I think teams will start to adjust their defenses to take out some of that "sting" with the way the LBer position is also evolving. JMO. I think the Bengals can have a far more balanced and lethal offensive attack with a Burrow at the helm.

[Bob Sheed]

Gotta have fast linebackers that can tackle, to stop Jackson.

Bengals are 0/2 there at this point.

[Sea Ray]

Not to take anything away from Jackson's skills and natural athletic gifts but the main reason for the Ravens offensive success this year was their offensive line. They opened huge running and passing lanes. It was often 9, 10 yards downfield before Jackson even got touched. In this day and age of spread offenses and all, you don't see dominant O line play like that very often.

Bob makes a very good point. This team has all kinds of holes to fill. QB is the biggest and most difficult to fill but they can use upgrades at every other "unit" on this team. Every one

[North]

This will just make you shake your head...

Duke Tobin explains the Bengals’ philosophy on trading
This explains why the Bengals never trade.
By Nick Manchester@NickManchester9 Jan 24, 2020, 9:00am EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/24/21079671/duke-tobin-explains-the-bengals-philosophy-on-trading

The article ends with

..."Notice that in the quotes above, Tobin never says “trade,” but he says “losing” or “lose” three times. A trade is equal to a loss.

Tobin is correct that trading talented players can destroy the current season, he fails to mention, or realize, the long-term benefit that it can have. Trades are not just about talent alone, they are also about draft capital and cap space.

The Bengals won two games with the players they have, and lot of their veterans are eating up their cap space. They could have traded away some of their larger contracts, acquired draft picks to add more players, and gain more cap space to sign premium free agents. Not to mention that most of the players mentioned in trade rumors were in their early-to-mid thirties. If the Bengals traded one of those players for draft picks, then they could use it to acquire younger players that can last longer in the league.

If the Bengals approach trading as simply “losing our best players,” then that explains a lot about the way the franchise operates.". :bang:

[GAC]

If you get drafted by the Bengals, make the squad, whatever, chances are you're secure in Cincinnati. From my experiences with the Bengals, they don't trade players unless they are in a situation where they have (need) to (Palmer, Dalton for example). You're "stuck" in Cincinnati baby till you've used up your worth or (in their minds) become too expensive for them.

While never big participants, under Marvin the Bengals did play the market (free agent signings) ..... Chris Crocker, Pacman Jones, Reggie Kelly, Cedric Benson, John Thorton, etc

I'm one who has always held the position that so goes your O-line? So goes your team. They're the heart, the nucleus. Yet when I look around the league I see a lot of teams struggling with building an O-line. Of course that line (of defense) takes a lot of hits/punishment every week too, so you need a strong reserve. They primarily build through (rely on) the draft, and when that player(s) prove their worth and it's contract time, the Bengals will either try to rework their contract or let'em walk into free agency. Over the years I've seen some solid offensive linemen walk away (FAs) from the Bengals in Eric Steinbach and recently Kevin Zeitler (all-Pro pass protector).

How much is a "Munoz/Wilson (Walter)" worth as an anchor for your O-line, as well as protecting a valuable asset named Burrow? But a lot of owners, like Brown, don't think like that. Working in the trenches is not a flashy job, and shouldn't cost that much to fill. It's always about the bottom-line and what can I do to "get by", not excel.

[redsfandan]

This will just make you shake your head...

Duke Tobin explains the Bengals’ philosophy on trading
This explains why the Bengals never trade.
By Nick Manchester@NickManchester9 Jan 24, 2020, 9:00am EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/24/21079671/duke-tobin-explains-the-bengals-philosophy-on-trading

The article ends with

..."Notice that in the quotes above, Tobin never says “trade,” but he says “losing” or “lose” three times. A trade is equal to a loss.

Tobin is correct that trading talented players can destroy the current season, he fails to mention, or realize, the long-term benefit that it can have. Trades are not just about talent alone, they are also about draft capital and cap space.

The Bengals won two games with the players they have, and lot of their veterans are eating up their cap space. They could have traded away some of their larger contracts, acquired draft picks to add more players, and gain more cap space to sign premium free agents. Not to mention that most of the players mentioned in trade rumors were in their early-to-mid thirties. If the Bengals traded one of those players for draft picks, then they could use it to acquire younger players that can last longer in the league.

If the Bengals approach trading as simply “losing our best players,” then that explains a lot about the way the franchise operates.". :bang:

Apparently there was interest by a few teams (like the Patriots) in Tyler Eifert. Eifert most likely isn't going to be a Bengal in 2022 and that's the soonest that the Bengals could realistically compete for a playoff spot. So, why not get anything for him??? But, no, not the Bengals, they don't want to help other teams get better. Reading what Tobin said is depressing because it would be great if the Bengals could be one of the better teams but it's hard to be optimistic when they keep acting like they're afraid of making trades or signing free agents. The best teams aren't like that. The best teams are proactive and open to ANY ways to improve, including trades or free agents. Drafting Burrow will help attendance but it will only help the team so much to become competitive again. The Bengals have six years to show the fans that things will be different. Hopefully they can do that but comments like that aren't a good sign.

[Sea Ray]

This radio host from Pittsburgh says that the concussion Burfict gave Antonio Brown in the playoffs started his spiral downward and has never been the same since:


And the 93.7 The Fan host told CBS Sports Radio's The Zach Gelb Show that he's "a firm believer" that Vontaze Burfict's hit on Brown in the Cincinnati Bengals' loss to the Steelers in the AFC Wild Card Game in 2016 changed Brown's life.


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/26/antonio-brown-never-recovered-vontaze-burfict-hit-per-dunlap/4585756002/

[Todd Gack]

This radio host from Pittsburgh says that the concussion Burfict gave Antonio Brown in the playoffs started his spiral downward and has never been the same since:



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/26/antonio-brown-never-recovered-vontaze-burfict-hit-per-dunlap/4585756002/

CTE is the new cancer.

[RiverRat13]

It's not going to happen, but the Bengals should take a look at what the Reds have done this offseason. The Reds have drafted terribly, therefore they need to use free agency to get better. The Bengals have also drafted terribly the last 3-5 years. They should be looking hard at free agent options, especially at LB because it's a weak draft class.

[WVRed]

It's not going to happen, but the Bengals should take a look at what the Reds have done this offseason. The Reds have drafted terribly, therefore they need to use free agency to get better. The Bengals have also drafted terribly the last 3-5 years. They should be looking hard at free agent options, especially at LB because it's a weak draft class.

The problem is free agency in the NFL is different from MLB. Salaries are still high but the salary cap makes it hard to add impact free agents, plus Cincinnati isn’t exactly a prime FA destination.

You can build a team in FA in baseball to compensate for sucking at drafting players. Football FA is good if you need an impact piece to get you over the top.

[bucksfan2]

This radio host from Pittsburgh says that the concussion Burfict gave Antonio Brown in the playoffs started his spiral downward and has never been the same since:



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/26/antonio-brown-never-recovered-vontaze-burfict-hit-per-dunlap/4585756002/

I don't know, I wouldn't doubt any football player has CTE, but nailing it down to one play is a little out there for me.

Brown coming out of Western Michigan was said to already be a diva WR. Once he achieved some fame, it seemed like those antics go worse.

I can assume that this radio guy is trying to get attention by going here, but what about all the other hits in the rivalry and their impact? Had Gio or Keith Rivers or Kevin Huber or AJ Green or 'insert name here' gone off the deep end, could you attribute it to a hit by a Steeler?

[Bob Sheed]

This radio host from Pittsburgh says that the concussion Burfict gave Antonio Brown in the playoffs started his spiral downward and has never been the same since:



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/26/antonio-brown-never-recovered-vontaze-burfict-hit-per-dunlap/4585756002/

<----- this guy said the same thing on this very forum, a long time ago.

[WVRed]

<----- this guy said the same thing on this very forum, a long time ago.

I thought it was common knowledge

[Sea Ray]

<----- this guy said the same thing on this very forum, a long time ago.

Does that avenge some of the Steeler hits and how it affected careers of Bengal players?

[Bob Sheed]

Does that avenge some of the Steeler hits and how it affected careers of Bengal players?

Not even close.

[Oxilon]

I’m not a doctor, but I was under the impression CTE is caused by repetitive hits to the head, not just a single one. If that’s the case, it sounds like the Steelers’ radio host just has sour grapes and will look for any reason to blame the Bengals for Antonio Brown’s downfall.

[Kingspoint]

This radio host from Pittsburgh says that the concussion Burfict gave Antonio Brown in the playoffs started his spiral downward and has never been the same since:



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/26/antonio-brown-never-recovered-vontaze-burfict-hit-per-dunlap/4585756002/

"A radio host from Pittsburgh"

:laugh:

[GAC]

"A radio host from Pittsburgh"

:laugh:

His station was really on the outskirts of Pittsburgh though. Not really within city limits.

[North]

Could the Bengals have found this years' "steal" to over-draft? :p

Bengals’ OL staff has high praise for Oregon OT Calvin Throckmorton
Don’t be shocked if he’s taken off the board early by Cincinnati
By NathanBeighle Jan 28, 2020, 9:00am EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/28/21110894/bengals-ol-staff-love-oregon-tackle-calvin-throckmorton

[membengal]

Could the Bengals have found this years' "steal" to over-draft? :p

Bengals’ OL staff has high praise for Oregon OT Calvin Throckmorton
Don’t be shocked if he’s taken off the board early by Cincinnati
By NathanBeighle Jan 28, 2020, 9:00am EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/28/21110894/bengals-ol-staff-love-oregon-tackle-calvin-throckmorton

Pretty sure cincy jungle is bored and just throwing crap at the wall. He's rated a 7th round talent.

[North]

Pretty sure cincy jungle is bored and just throwing crap at the wall. He's rated a 7th round talent.

They may well be, but the Bengals have a history of throwing higher picks at crap. That makes them fair game.

[CTA513]

This radio host from Pittsburgh says that the concussion Burfict gave Antonio Brown in the playoffs started his spiral downward and has never been the same since:



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/26/antonio-brown-never-recovered-vontaze-burfict-hit-per-dunlap/4585756002/

Antonio Browns downward spiral began once everyone took notice of his talent and he became recognized as a true star player in the NFL.

[WrongVerb]

Los Angeles Chargers could now be a landing spot for The Red Rifle.

[membengal]

They may well be, but the Bengals have a history of throwing higher picks at crap. That makes them fair game.

They have had some stretches but that article was pure supposition piled on wild speculation just to push publish on a post.

[WVRed]

Los Angeles Chargers could now be a landing spot for The Red Rifle.

The GOAT is more likely.

[KoryMac5]

Pretty sure cincy jungle is bored and just throwing crap at the wall. He's rated a 7th round talent.

He plays 4 positions so I get why they wrote the article as the Bengals did love his ability to step in at the last minute during the senior bowl. That being said I can see someone grabbing him during the 5th round.

[Kingspoint]

The GOAT is more likely.

Brady as a Raider?

[WVRed]

Brady as a Raider?

LA.

Same reason LeBron moved west. Opportunity to promote TB12 and he and Gisele would fit right in. Not to mention the Chargers need to do something to stay relevant and sell tickets in that monstrosity.

[Tony Cloninger]

They may well be, but the Bengals have a history of throwing higher picks at crap. That makes them fair game.

At this point any OL the Bengals personnel and scouts think is worth drafting probably is another project that is not very good at all and can’t be developed by them. Don’t trust these guys at all.

[Tony Cloninger]

They have had some stretches but that article was pure supposition piled on wild speculation just to push publish on a post.

Like for example Sample from last year? They like to show everyone they are smarter than the average bear by picking guys like this because a coach goes to bat for the player. Some of these bengals coaches have been lousy at scouting because they don’t have time to due better due diligence that a real scout can do during the year.

[Kingspoint]

LA.

Same reason LeBron moved west. Opportunity to promote TB12 and he and Gisele would fit right in. Not to mention the Chargers need to do something to stay relevant and sell tickets in that monstrosity.

Las Vegas is close enough. The Raiders training facility won't be in the desert.

[GAC]

Antonio Browns downward spiral began once everyone took notice of his talent and he became recognized as a true star player in the NFL.

Yep. So what's the excuse for the rest we've seen down the years? Never their fault. Want no personal accountability.

[membengal]

Just did a 7-round mock on TDN's engine using their predictive picks setting with me pulling the trigger for the Bengals and I ended up choosing the following:

Round 1 - Burrow
Round 2 - Mekhi Becton, OT - L'ville
Round 3 - Josh Uche, Edge - Michigan
Round 4 - Ben Bartch, OT - that Div III school
Round 5 - Michael Pittman Jr., WR - USC
Round 6 - Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton
Round 7- Stanford Samuels III, CB, Florida State

If the draft broke out like that in April I would be beyond ecstatic, I think...

[North]

I would say %#

[membengal]

The Draft Network engine is fun and quick - for what it's worth. Probably a 1 in 100 shot that Becton would fall there at this point, but that's a run to the podium moment. If you have premium, you can play around with trades.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/

[Sea Ray]

The GOAT is more likely.

My guess is the GOAT is not leaving NE. I think they'll get him a WR and a TE and they'll go to war again in 2020

[WVRed]

Just did a 7-round mock on TDN's engine using their predictive picks setting with me pulling the trigger for the Bengals and I ended up choosing the following:

Round 1 - Burrow
Round 2 - Mekhi Becton, OT - L'ville
Round 3 - Josh Uche, Edge - Michigan
Round 4 - Ben Bartch, OT - that Div III school
Round 5 - Michael Pittman Jr., WR - USC
Round 6 - Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton
Round 7- Stanford Samuels III, CB, Florida State

If the draft broke out like that in April I would be beyond ecstatic, I think...

Here’s mine:
1. Burrow
2. Austin Jackson (OT-USC)
3. Josh Uche
4. Tyler Biadsz (OG-Wisconsin)
5. Albert Okwuegbunam (TE-Missouri)
6.Antonio Gandy-Golden (WR-Liberty)
7. Mohammed Barry (LB-Nebraska)

I did kind a couple months ago where Isaiah Simmons fell to the second round. Kinda wonder how accurate these things are.

[membengal]

They are fluid - the boards on the sites like Draft Network change as data comes in from the senior bowl / shrine bowl / combine process combined with their own scouting opinions and what they are hearing from team sources. You won’t see Simmons at 33 in a mock now. But doing them can give you an idea about the strength of certain position groups as we go through this process. WR is DEEP this year - some really good options look like they will be available in rounds four and five, for instance.

[North]

This club is in desperate need of linebackers. They don't need yet another TE.

[membengal]

This club is in desperate need of linebackers. They don't need yet another TE.

Eifert likely gone. A 6th round or 5th round TE isn't a bad thought. They do need LB. FA can help - but I don't think a 5th or 6th round LB is likely to make a big difference. Uche can cover in addition to rush -he's a hybrid type DE/LB in the NFL likely. He addresses LB some.

[reds77]

Just did a 7-round mock on TDN's engine using their predictive picks setting with me pulling the trigger for the Bengals and I ended up choosing the following:

Round 1 - Burrow
Round 2 - Mekhi Becton, OT - L'ville
Round 3 - Josh Uche, Edge - Michigan
Round 4 - Ben Bartch, OT - that Div III school
Round 5 - Michael Pittman Jr., WR - USC
Round 6 - Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton
Round 7- Stanford Samuels III, CB, Florida State

If the draft broke out like that in April I would be beyond ecstatic, I think...

And someone just provided me with slow work day entertainment!

[Redsfaithful]

Probably a 1 in 100 shot that Becton would fall there at this point, but that's a run to the podium moment.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/

What I love about having the top pick in the 2nd draft is that it seems like every year someone falls that is considered tremendous value and everyone gets a day to think about that. Either the Bengals can benefit from the slide, or they can reap the benefits in a trade.

[membengal]

I. Cannot. Wait.

https://twitter.com/ben_baby/status/1222664619938013184?s=21

[Ohayou]

Here’s mine:
1. Burrow
2. Austin Jackson (OT-USC)
3. Josh Uche
4. Tyler Biadsz (OG-Wisconsin)
5. Albert Okwuegbunam (TE-Missouri)
6.Antonio Gandy-Golden (WR-Liberty)
7. Mohammed Barry (LB-Nebraska)

I did kind a couple months ago where Isaiah Simmons fell to the second round. Kinda wonder how accurate these things are.

I've done too many of these drafts. There are definitely players inside their database I think are way off. Calvin Throckmorton, who the Bengals are supposedly interested in, is ranked as their 213th best player now, but earlier he was like 60 something.

I like Uche, but isn't he similar to Lawson? Barry is an underrated LB prospect, as is his WR teammate JD Spielman. Biadasz and Albert O I think go a lot higher. Albert O was like the #1 TE at one point. I'm curious to see where Trautman from Dayton goes. I see he's talked about a lot, but I have a feeling he could go undrafted.

[Redsfaithful]

I. Cannot. Wait.

https://twitter.com/ben_baby/status/1222664619938013184?s=21

This is great except the kid he's talking to reminds me too much of my oldest lol

[UKFlounder]

Alex Van Pelt apparently leaving to become Cleveland’s OC per Twitter report

[North]

Eifert likely gone. A 6th round or 5th round TE isn't a bad thought. They do need LB. FA can help - but I don't think a 5th or 6th round LB is likely to make a big difference. Uche can cover in addition to rush -he's a hybrid type DE/LB in the NFL likely. He addresses LB some.


I think that until proven otherwise, their level of OL play is gonna make them keep the TE in as a blocker. They had a bit of a splurge with Eifert in the last games, but those opponents were the Jets, Browns twice, the Fins, and 1 game against a team with a winning season - NE. Reinstating Dalton mattered. So I think Sample and Cethan Carter and Uzomah wll suffice.

Would love to see a decent FA lb (or at any position) but the Bengal's history etc.

[GAC]

Just did a 7-round mock on TDN's engine using their predictive picks setting with me pulling the trigger for the Bengals and I ended up choosing the following:

Round 1 - Burrow
Round 2 - Mekhi Becton, OT - L'ville
Round 3 - Josh Uche, Edge - Michigan
Round 4 - Ben Bartch, OT - that Div III school
Round 5 - Michael Pittman Jr., WR - USC
Round 6 - Adam Trautman, TE - Dayton
Round 7- Stanford Samuels III, CB, Florida State

If the draft broke out like that in April I would be beyond ecstatic, I think...

There's a pretty good class of O-line coming out this year. That's good all around because lots of teams looking for O-line help too. Guys like Becton (Louisville), Thomas (Georgia), and Wirfs (Iowa), will be top 1R picks. Some others later in the round and into the second. Key position.

[North]

There's a pretty good class of O-line coming out this year. That's good all around because lots of teams looking for O-line help too. Guys like Becton (Louisville), Thomas (Georgia), and Wirfs (Iowa), will be top 1R picks. Some others later in the round and into the second. Key position.


GAC, we seem to be fellow oid man insomniacs. Heh.:D

[membengal]

Ben Baby
@Ben_Baby
· 2h
Bengals DE Sam Hubbard is kicking it with Joe Burrow in Miami during SB week, per Carlos Dunlap's interview with @noworneverespn. Hubbard and Burrow, who played together at Ohio St., are good friends.

Dunlap: "Sam’s already courting him into the Bengal world."

[WVRed]

This club is in desperate need of linebackers. They don't need yet another TE.

I don’t disagree on LBs, but Eifert is a FA and has an injury prone history. I don’t know if Uzomah is a long term fixture or not and Sample is looking like a bust so far.

Ogwubenum (?) was rated even last year as a first round talent. That’s why I mocked him there.

[Sea Ray]

What I love about having the top pick in the 2nd draft is that it seems like every year someone falls that is considered tremendous value and everyone gets a day to think about that. Either the Bengals can benefit from the slide, or they can reap the benefits in a trade.

My thoughts exactly. Ditto for day 3. Last yr the Bengals traded up in rd 4 cause they had a hard on for a player, Ryan Finley. We'll be in position to benefit from that this yr

[membengal]

https://twitter.com/andy_benoit/status/1222953308819603459?s=21

[North]

Here we go...

Bengals officially promote Dan Pitcher to QBs coach
“Dan is a rising star who has demonstrated that he has a bright future as he continues to take on more responsibility.“
By Jason Marcum@marcum89 Jan 30, 2020, 12:27pm EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/30/21115360/bengals-officially-promote-dan-pitcher-to-qbs-coach


I believe "rising star" is code for not there yet.

[GAC]

GAC, we seem to be fellow oid man insomniacs. Heh.:D

I'm retired one year... and my sleep habits presently are all over the place. LOL

[Spanky]

Here we go...

Bengals officially promote Dan Pitcher to QBs coach
“Dan is a rising star who has demonstrated that he has a bright future as he continues to take on more responsibility.“
By Jason Marcum@marcum89 Jan 30, 2020, 12:27pm EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/30/21115360/bengals-officially-promote-dan-pitcher-to-qbs-coach


I believe "rising star" is code for not there yet.

QBs work with about 75 coaches now so I don't really care to much, our head coach and offensive coordinator were both QB coaches as well.

[North]

QBs work with about 75 coaches now so I don't really care to much, our head coach and offensive coordinator were both QB coaches as well.


Well, we will see. They are likely to draft Burrow at #1. The family didn't come to a contract accomodation with a well-respected NFL qb coach with years of experience and observation who has played the game for years. Now he is inked by a division rival.

Actually, why bother with any qb coach if Taylor can mold Burrow,? His 1 years' experience of coaching the LA qb Goff will stand for the ages . :D

Bengals....

[Kingspoint]

Here we go...

Bengals officially promote Dan Pitcher to QBs coach
“Dan is a rising star who has demonstrated that he has a bright future as he continues to take on more responsibility.“
By Jason Marcum@marcum89 Jan 30, 2020, 12:27pm EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/30/21115360/bengals-officially-promote-dan-pitcher-to-qbs-coach


I believe "rising star" is code for not there yet.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/antagonist/images/7/7e/Patrick_Star.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20151212010822

[Kingspoint]

Common sense says Dalton is gone.

Would love to see Bridgewater signed to a 3-year deal. Solid backup when Burrow is hit for the 47th time by the end of four preseason games and three regular season games and can't get through practice to start Week 4.

[ScotlandRed]

Common sense says Dalton is gone.

Would love to see Bridgewater signed to a 3-year deal. Solid backup when Burrow is hit for the 47th time by the end of four preseason games and three regular season games and can't get through practice to start Week 4.

Good plan but I don’t see Bridgewater signing a 3 year deal to be a back up. He performed well this year with Brees out and could most likely at least compete for a starting job next year.

[Kingspoint]

Good plan but I don’t see Bridgewater signing a 3 year deal to be a back up. He performed well this year with Brees out and could most likely at least compete for a starting job next year.

One would think, but the Saints just basically said they can't afford him, so he has to go somewhere. I don't see any openings for a Starter anywhere, so why not go for security and try to ink a 3-yr deal? Backup QB in the NFL for 10 years is a great gig if you can get it. It's all how it's presented to him. Job security is important and with the eventual 18-game schedule in the near future, he'll get his chances to start in Cincinnati. Dalton stayed healthy only because of the combination of his quick-release and Andrew Whitworth. Burrow has neither of those with the quick release being the most important, a skill not easily learned.

[membengal]

I see everyone is ignoring the Benoit tweet i posted to be snarky instead. Benoit is not at all a fan of what the bengals do generally, so maybe his thoughts on Pitcher carry some weight? Here it is in non-link form:


Andy Benoit
@Andy_Benoit
Great, GREAT move by Zac Taylor and the Bengals. Dan Pitcher is one of the brightest offensive coaches in football.

[membengal]

Burrow has neither of those with the quick release being the most important, a skill not easily learned.

Oh for godssake, Burrow and Dalton both had literally the same amount of time from snap to throw last year - Burrow's release is every bit as quick as Andy's. You all just make **** up sometimes.

[North]

I'm retired one year... and my sleep habits presently are all over the place. LOL

Here is a recommendation... :)

15585

[Redsfaithful]

So this is first time I've felt a bit of worry, figure I should admit it:

https://twitter.com/pauldehnerjr/status/1223271435579334657


Man, we have a long way to go until this all plays out but hard not to connect the dots on what Carson said this week, Jordan Palmer taking over training Joe Burrow and this answer to the question of going at the top of the draft.

Maybe I'm just looking too hard but ...

Reedy responding to this:

https://twitter.com/andrewperloff/status/1223268859874086913


"You want to go No. 1. But you also want to go to a great organization that is committed to winning. Committed to winning Super Bowls." - Joe Burrow on @dpshow

Palmer family still feeling wronged here and trying to get some payback?

I still think they take Burrow and it's fine, I'm just saying this isn't outstanding.

[Spanky]

So this is first time I've felt a bit of worry, figure I should admit it:

https://twitter.com/pauldehnerjr/status/1223271435579334657



Reedy responding to this:

https://twitter.com/andrewperloff/status/1223268859874086913



Palmer family still feeling wronged here and trying to get some payback?

I still think they take Burrow and it's fine, I'm just saying this isn't outstanding.

he's good friends with Sam Hubbard and Sam is one of the most respected guys in the locker room. I think it's fine, probably letting the org know they need to invest around him as well.

[Redsfaithful]

he's good friends with Sam Hubbard and Sam is one of the most respected guys in the locker room. I think it's fine, probably letting the org know they need to invest around him as well.

My hope is he will take Carson's experience to better and more effectively leverage his position with the team to challenge the ownership.

The sad thing is, all of this just hurts the fans who have already been abused for decades. But who knows, maybe Burrow sees it all and is formulating some sort of plan. His dad is sharp and he's dealing with people around the team already, so fingers crossed. This could be a turning point for the team.

[North]

And the hits keep coming...

Tua Tagovailoa's agent on his client going No. 1: 'I’m hoping Cincy falls in love with Joe Burrow'
KYLE BROWN | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER
Updated 15 hours ago

“You want to make sure that your client ends up with a good organization....I’m hoping Cincy falls in love with Joe Burrow," the account tweeted out."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/30/agent-leigh-steinberg-bengals-drafting-joe-burrow-over-tua-tagovailoa/2859093001/

[Bob Sheed]

The only danger here is if Burrow somehow comes to understand about Mike Brown, what every long time Bengals QB comes to understand about Mike Brown.

(That 'winning' is a distant 3rd on his priority list)

If Burrow and/or Burrow's dad puts 2 and 2 together there, and does so before the draft, it could get ugly.

[Bob Sheed]

And the hits keep coming...

Tua Tagovailoa's agent on his client going No. 1: 'I’m hoping Cincy falls in love with Joe Burrow'
KYLE BROWN | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER
Updated 15 hours ago

“You want to make sure that your client ends up with a good organization....I’m hoping Cincy falls in love with Joe Burrow," the account tweeted out."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/30/agent-leigh-steinberg-bengals-drafting-joe-burrow-over-tua-tagovailoa/2859093001/

No question Tua would refuse to play for the Bengals, I've said that all along. He'd find a way out, even if it meant going back for his Senior Year, or sitting out a year.

The bigger concern is if that same lightbulb goes on over Joe Burrow's head.

[Hillsdale87]

And the hits keep coming...

Tua Tagovailoa's agent on his client going No. 1: 'I’m hoping Cincy falls in love with Joe Burrow'
KYLE BROWN | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER
Updated 15 hours ago

“You want to make sure that your client ends up with a good organization....I’m hoping Cincy falls in love with Joe Burrow," the account tweeted out."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/01/30/agent-leigh-steinberg-bengals-drafting-joe-burrow-over-tua-tagovailoa/2859093001/

Yes, because the Dolphins have been a paragon of excellence for the last 20 years... No doubt the Bengals are a bad organization, but most of the teams picking in the top 10 haven't come even close to the success the Bengals have had the last 11 years. Agents don't like the Bengals because they're cheap, and that makes sense. But in terms of chances of playing for a winner, the Bengals aren't a bad bet for teams in the top 10.

Flores looks like a good coach, so maybe he flips the script. But even though he spends money, Stephen Ross has done a far worse job of constructing a football team than Mike Brown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[North]

Yes, because the Dolphins have been a paragon of excellence for the last 20 years... No doubt the Bengals are a bad organization, but most of the teams picking in the top 10 haven't come even close to the success the Bengals have had the last 11 years. Agents don't like the Bengals because they're cheap, and that makes sense. But in terms of chances of playing for a winner, the Bengals aren't a bad bet for teams in the top 10.

Flores looks like a good coach, so maybe he flips the script. But even though he spends money, Stephen Ross has done a far worse job of constructing a football team than Mike Brown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All we have here is 1 crap team + 1 crap team = 2 crap teams.

[Bob Sheed]

Yes, because the Dolphins have been a paragon of excellence for the last 20 years... No doubt the Bengals are a bad organization, but most of the teams picking in the top 10 haven't come even close to the success the Bengals have had the last 11 years. Agents don't like the Bengals because they're cheap, and that makes sense. But in terms of chances of playing for a winner, the Bengals aren't a bad bet for teams in the top 10.

Flores looks like a good coach, so maybe he flips the script. But even though he spends money, Stephen Ross has done a far worse job of constructing a football team than Mike Brown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So much misinformation here... my goodness.

Agents don't dislike Mike Brown because he's cheap. The Bengals spend as much as any other team does, in regard to cap money. But "why" do the Bengals spend as much as every other team, in regard to cap money? That's the real question. And the answer is, because they have to.

The NFL has a rule now, where every team is required to spend up to a certain percentage of the salary cap. The next question you should be asking yourself is, why would the NFL need to make such a rule? Don't teams want to spend as close to the cap as possible? And the answer is, the rule was made because of Mike Brown.

Back in the 1990s, Mike Brown was tanking. But not for the reason most teams tank. He was pocketing money he should have been spending on players, so he could save up to buy the team outright. Which he did. So the NFL made a rule requiring scammers like Mike Brown to spend to the cap. Which he does.

Now here's where Mike Brown's cheapness really handicaps his own franchise. Non-Cap related expenditures. Scouts, stadium amenities. Towels, equipment, coaches, decorations, you name it. All the absolute bare minimum.

So to get back to why agents don't like Mike Brown, the real reason is, anyone who plays for the Bengals, ends up getting devalued, sometimes even injured, due to the organization's self-imposed handicaps in regard to non-cap related expenditures.

It's why stumbling backwards into the playoffs is pretty much the high water mark for the Bengals. It's why go-with-the-flow guys like Palmer have so much venom, even now, toward Mike Brown. It's why Tua would refuse to play here if drafted. It's why Corey Dillon threw his pads and uniform into the stands after his last game as a Bengal. It's why Dalton can't wait to get released. And it's why AJ Green didn't play a down this season. All of it.

And like I said, Bengals fans better hope Burrow doesn't connect the dots here too. Otherwise, expect an Eli Manning draft situation.

But when people say that Mike Brown is or is not "cheap" based on what he spends on player contracts, I have to shake my head, because that's not even close to how things really are.

[membengal]

Only in Dan Patrick’s wet dreams does Burrow pass on millions of dollars and refuse to play for a year so Patrick can have content.

[Bob Sheed]

Only in Dan Patrick’s wet dreams does Burrow pass on millions of dollars and refuse to play for a year so Patrick can have content.

You should understand better than most, how plausible that scenario actually is, and why.

[dubc47834]

All we have here is 1 crap team + 1 crap team = 2 crap teams.

Play for 1 crap team in Ohio...or play for 1 crap team in Florida...I'll take Ohio...said no one ever!

[Spanky]

Play for 1 crap team in Ohio...or play for 1 crap team in Florida...I'll take Ohio...said no one ever!

the kid from Ohio might want to come back home instead of live in hurricane central for the first 5 years of his career.

[membengal]

You should understand better than most, how plausible that scenario actually is, and why.

Burrow passing on millions of dollars when his dad is already on record as saying the entire family is annoyed with suggestions that Burrow pull an Eli? Game that out for me - Burrow sits a year and then goes back into a draft with Trevor Lawrence and fields and some of the other 2021 hard charging qbs who have spent the year playing and gets selected somewhere much lower than #1 overall costing himself even more money? Especially a guy as competitive as Burrow is? Tell me EXACTLY how that makes any sense other than for those who get out of bed hoping to inflict pain on Mike brown - a man impervious to such things...

Not plausible.

[Kingspoint]

Oh for godssake, Burrow and Dalton both had literally the same amount of time from snap to throw last year - Burrow's release is every bit as quick as Andy's. You all just make **** up sometimes.

Where's your source? You?

[membengal]

Where's your source? You?

Pro football focus.

[membengal]

On the other thing - Dan Patrick is a bit of a queef but Burrow sounds fine to me here:

https://twitter.com/wrightreportt/status/1223313744664678400?s=21

[WrongVerb]

LMAO!