2020 Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread

[Sea Ray]

On the other thing - Dan Patrick is a bit of a queef but Burrow sounds fine to me here:

https://twitter.com/wrightreportt/status/1223313744664678400?s=21

It's all good. Bengals will draft Joe #1 but they'll also be under pressure to build a winner around him. That's a best case scenario for us fans

[Wonderful Monds]

Worst case scenario Burrow leaves after his rookie contract is up. There’s no way he’s gonna pass up being the surefire number one pick.

[Hillsdale87]

Where's your source? You?

Burrow and Dalton were both pressured on 29% of dropbacks last year per PFF. That was before the playoff, but I doubt it changed much


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

All we have here is 1 crap team + 1 crap team = 2 crap teams.

Agreed. But the agent is acting like Tua is going to end up in such a better situation than Cincy, and while it's possible, there's no reason to believe that. Yes, it's more fun to lose in Miami than in Cincinnati, but other than that, Miami is a terrible organization too.

An agent making a statement like that is just trying to blow smoke when he knows that his client isn't going to be #1 and spinning it like it's best case scenario.


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[Bob Sheed]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/31/carson-palmer-says-bengals-werent-trying-to-win-a-super-bowl/amp/

And, more to the point:

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/is-joe-burrow-trying-to-avoid-being-drafted-by-the-cincinnati-bengals-213050680.html

[membengal]

No. That article is baiting trash. We have burrow’s dad saying they are literally offended as a family by suggestions he pull an Eli. He was literally asked directly by Dan Patrick the Eli question anyway, giving him an opportunity to say he did not want to be drafted by the bengals, and he did not remotely do that. So that author then posits that he is actually doing that which his dad says he won’t do and which he himself just declined to do.

Other than national media who are bored and want to make a story and self-loathing bengals fans who get off on being woe-is-us , there’s no story here.

[KoryMac5]

There were feelers put out by Archie in regards to Eli well before the draft and that was yrs ago times have changed...these days if a kid doesn't want to go to a team they just come out and say it on twitter or some other venue...social media has changed the need to be covert.

[North]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/31/carson-palmer-says-bengals-werent-trying-to-win-a-super-bowl/amp/

And, more to the point:

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/is-joe-burrow-trying-to-avoid-being-drafted-by-the-cincinnati-bengals-213050680.html

“Oh my god, Mike Brown” :D

[Sea Ray]

Worst case scenario Burrow leaves after his rookie contract is up. There’s no way he’s gonna pass up being the surefire number one pick.

Bengals will control him for 7 yrs. 4 yr contract. One yr option. 2 yrs of franchising. Don't worry about him leaving.

[North]

Bengals will control him for 7 yrs. 4 yr contract. One yr option. 2 yrs of franchising. Don't worry about him leaving.

7 years with the Bengals. That's a sobering thought. :ughmamoru:

[kaldaniels]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/31/carson-palmer-says-bengals-werent-trying-to-win-a-super-bowl/amp/

And, more to the point:

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/is-joe-burrow-trying-to-avoid-being-drafted-by-the-cincinnati-bengals-213050680.html

Are the Bengals the only team with no indoor training facility? That’s unbelievable.

[Bob Sheed]

The only cold weather team, yes.

Non cap related expenditures.

For the loss.

[Spanky]

7 years with the Bengals. That's a sobering thought. :ughmamoru:

You are providing nothing to this thread.

[North]

You are providing nothing to this thread.


And your contribution is...what?

I see you note NKY as your area of residence. I live in Hamilton County and have been paying - for years - for the MB crapshow. I continue to pay.

You have no skin in the game. Right?

[redsfandan]

Burrow passing on millions of dollars when his dad is already on record as saying the entire family is annoyed with suggestions that Burrow pull an Eli? Game that out for me - Burrow sits a year and then goes back into a draft with Trevor Lawrence and fields and some of the other 2021 hard charging qbs who have spent the year playing and gets selected somewhere much lower than #1 overall costing himself even more money? Especially a guy as competitive as Burrow is? Tell me EXACTLY how that makes any sense other than for those who get out of bed hoping to inflict pain on Mike brown - a man impervious to such things...

Not plausible.

It doesn't matter which team these guys end up playing for they're going to end up with more money than most of us could dream of. So, if Burrow is really that competitive, a guy that really wants to WIN wouldn't it at least make sense for him to think about what kind of team he'd like to be on. Whether he'd prefer to be with a team that looks like they're trying to make moves to improve (like the Raiders) or a team that has a history of not doing enough. Would he rather be rich and have a chance at the playoffs or rich but be on a team that's good at pretending to have a chance at the playoffs.

- - - Updated - - -


So much misinformation here... my goodness.

Agents don't dislike Mike Brown because he's cheap. The Bengals spend as much as any other team does, in regard to cap money. But "why" do the Bengals spend as much as every other team, in regard to cap money? That's the real question. And the answer is, because they have to. . . .

But when people say that Mike Brown is or is not "cheap" based on what he spends on player contracts, I have to shake my head, because that's not even close to how things really are.
I'll admit I've made that mistake.

[Redsfaithful]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/31/carson-palmer-says-bengals-werent-trying-to-win-a-super-bowl/amp/

And, more to the point:

https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/is-joe-burrow-trying-to-avoid-being-drafted-by-the-cincinnati-bengals-213050680.html

It's difficult with Carson because:

1) I agree with him, it is clear the Bengals haven't tried enough historically.

but

2) He talks about Arizona being head and shoulders above and "going after it" and winning "Ten wins, 11 wins, 12 wins — whatever it was, those next three years" after he arrived ... and it's like what? The Bengals won 52 games in the 5 years after Carson left, with a second-round QB. He weakens his argument there.

Carson won a grand total of one playoff game in Arizona. Better than Cincinnati, sure, but I think he probably could have won a playoff game in Cincinnati too, given the difference in talent between Dalton and himself.

[membengal]

Burrow passing on millions of dollars when his dad is already on record as saying the entire family is annoyed with suggestions that Burrow pull an Eli? Game that out for me - Burrow sits a year and then goes back into a draft with Trevor Lawrence and fields and some of the other 2021 hard charging qbs who have spent the year playing and gets selected somewhere much lower than #1 overall costing himself even more money? Especially a guy as competitive as Burrow is? Tell me EXACTLY how that makes any sense other than for those who get out of bed hoping to inflict pain on Mike brown - a man impervious to such things...

Not plausible.

Bumping my post from last page in answer to Dan who clearly didn’t read it.

On top of that - wtf are you on about? They went to the playoffs five years running starting in Andy dalton’s rookie year - but somehow Burrow is so competitive he will sit out a year plus ( CBA is ending and a strike is looming so if he refuses to play in cincy and the bengals call that bluff which you know Mike brown would) he’s maybe passing on two years of money because the bengals can’t make the playoffs? Just, jeebus, stop. It’s the nfl, teams turn around all the time - if Burrow is what he says he is, he can do that here and be a legend. The bengals lost eight games by one score last year - for all I know an upgrade at qb addresses that. Who knows?

Some of you all are insane with hate.

[redsfandan]

Bumping my post from last page in answer to Dan who clearly didn’t read it.

On top of that - wtf are you on about? They went to the playoffs five years running starting in Andy dalton’s rookie year - but somehow Burrow is so competitive he will sit out a year plus ( CBA is ending and a strike is looming so if he refuses to play in cincy and the bengals call that bluff which you know Mike brown would) he’s maybe passing on two years of money because the bengals can’t make the playoffs? Just, jeebus, stop. It’s the nfl, teams turn around all the time - if Burrow is what he says he is, he can do that here and be a legend.

Some of you all are insane with hate.

I did read ALL of your post.

I DO think it's very likely that he'll be a Bengal. I'm only saying that I wouldn't blame him for thinking about it. He can either sign with whoever drafts him (probably the Bengals) or hold out and even sit out ONE year.

Here's a question for you: Do you really think that things will change with the Bengals? Or can you admit that it's reasonable to think that the Bengals might not do as much as they could (just like in the past)?

Sure, the Bengals can turn things around. It can only get better from a 2 win season. I just wouldn't get your hopes up.

By the way, this has nothing to do with hate. It's about reality. IF the Bengals make the playoffs in the next 6 years it won't be because of Mike Brown, it will be despite him.

[membengal]

I will do with my hopes what I want. You feel free to root for some other team as opposed to CONSTANTLY coming around to whine and do what you can to crap on any good feeling.

[redsfandan]

I will do with my hopes what I want. You feel free to root for some other team as opposed to CONSTANTLY coming around to whine and do what you can to crap on any good feeling.

Constantly? My first post in this thread was post #424. And this post, like my previous post, was in response to you responding to something that I said. I get that you want to be really optimistic about the Bengals. Does that mean that a couple posts (out of 500+) that express views that you don't agree with are going to get you that bent out of shape.

[membengal]

My bad - mixed you up with Wrong Verb.

[redsfandan]

My bad - mixed you up with Wrong Verb.

Wrong Verb or Bob Sheed? Lol

The Bengals can be 'frustrating'. I'm hoping that Katie will be more open minded.

[Spanky]

And your contribution is...what?

I see you note NKY as your area of residence. I live in Hamilton County and have been paying - for years - for the MB crapshow. I continue to pay.

You have no skin in the game. Right?

Fair enough, but I'm just saying you've been nothing but negative trying to bring down other people's spirits. I don't consider myself an optimist at all and I understand expecting the worst so you don't get disappointed. I also understand letting people get excited and not crap all over their excitement at every turn.

[Bob Sheed]

I post facts, and comments from ex players.

Others here post opinions and straight up misinformation.

Burrow's latest tweet says he's already thinking about what anyone remotely paying attention to Mike Brown already knows.

That Mike Brown isn't committed to winning, and Burrow is thinking about what that means, before he signs away 5 years of his life.

[membengal]

Liar.

This is Joe Burrow’s latest tweet (a re-tweet):

https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1222874604512911363?s=21

That was from two days ago.

The one before that was for the helicopter crash.

The one before that was him eating a steak Burrow at Jeff Ruby’s steakhouse.

[Todd Gack]

It's difficult with Carson because:

1) I agree with him, it is clear the Bengals haven't tried enough historically.

but

2) He talks about Arizona being head and shoulders above and "going after it" and winning "Ten wins, 11 wins, 12 wins — whatever it was, those next three years" after he arrived ... and it's like what? The Bengals won 52 games in the 5 years after Carson left, with a second-round QB. He weakens his argument there.

Carson won a grand total of one playoff game in Arizona. Better than Cincinnati, sure, but I think he probably could have won a playoff game in Cincinnati too, given the difference in talent between Dalton and himself.

Yes, but the Bengals were actually lucky with their drafts and we had to draft a lot of losers to get there (including during Carson's time). That's the difference. Carson is right. We went to the playoffs because the NFL has an incredible amount of parity so everyone gets a medal at some point. I mean, we ended up with guys like Darwin Award winner Chris Henry, a drunk in Odell Thurman, a psychotic like Vonteze Burfict, female beater Joe Mixon, a general mess of a life in Pac-Man Jones, and so forth. We have to take those guys because this franchise is completely incompetent.

[Todd Gack]

I will do with my hopes what I want. You feel free to root for some other team as opposed to CONSTANTLY coming around to whine and do what you can to crap on any good feeling.

What about the Bengals makes anyone feel good? Many of us has spent a lot of time and money in certain parts of our lives rooting on this team. I think people like myself deserve to crap on such a loser and incompetent franchise after we had 1st round draft picks buying towels for the rest of the team because our loser of an owner is too cheap to go down to the local Bed, Bath, and Beyond to at least pretend he gives a damn. We have a lot of Reds and Bengals fans that give the "WHOA IS ME" attitude and talk about a Cincinnati sports 'curse' but there's no curse. It's just two incompetent franchises who get excited about winning Division Championships and then choking it away when it really matters.

[KoryMac5]

What tweet did Burrow send that you are referring to...he's been relatively quiet and I am sure like the rest of us he is tired of talking about this as the media continues to try and make a story where there is none.

2nd. He is good friends with Sam Hubbard and has chosen to spend the Super Bowl weekend with Sam who happens to play for the Bengals and the current coaching staff. I would imagine he is getting the pros and cons of being drafted by this team from Sam.

3rd Carson Palmer needs to go away...he had opportunities to leave after he was drafted yet he stayed and resigned knowing full well how the organization was run. Now for some reason he is a Bengal expert when in reality the Bengals took pretty good care of Carson while he was here (84 million).

4th Repeat after me Mike Brown is not trading the #1 pick and Joe Burrow is not going to waste a yr by sitting out...won't happen.

5th. This thread is going to get real old luckily spring training is days away.

[membengal]

There is no such tweet. Anyone can check his feed. It’s a lie.

[KoryMac5]

What about the Bengals makes anyone feel good? Many of us has spent a lot of time and money in certain parts of our lives rooting on this team. I think people like myself deserve to crap on such a loser and incompetent franchise after we had 1st round draft picks buying towels for the rest of the team because our loser of an owner is too cheap to go down to the local Bed, Bath, and Beyond to at least pretend he gives a damn. We have a lot of Reds and Bengals fans that give the "WHOA IS ME" attitude and talk about a Cincinnati sports 'curse' but there's no curse. It's just two incompetent franchises who get excited about winning Division Championships and then choking it away when it really matters.

Then find something else to do in your life if the Bengals and Reds cause this sort of reaction....if your only in it to crap on a team then why bother...it's trolling. I am all for being a realist but damn some of you need new hobbies.

I have absolutely 0 issues with pointing out Bengals ineptness I think as a fan since the early 80's we are all realistic about what Mike Brown brings to the table...but some of you are in dead horse territory and bring absolutely nothing new to the conversation.

It gets tired and it got old real quick.

[RiverRat13]

Could we have a “The Bengals Will Always Be Terrible And All Of You Are Rubes” for Bob and Todd so the rest of us could actually talk about the Bengals offseason?

[Todd Gack]

3rd Carson Palmer needs to go away...he had opportunities to leave after he was drafted yet he stayed and resigned knowing full well how the organization was run. Now for some reason he is a Bengal expert when in reality the Bengals took pretty good care of Carson while he was here (84 million).

Pardon me for a very long post but I think many of you are really ignorant of the history of Palmer's time here in Cincinnati.

Here's the other part of Carson's quote that you fail to mention.

“Duke Tobin’s done a great job since he’s ... seems like he’s been leading the charge as far as the draft process goes,” Palmer said. “There’s been some talent there. Whether the organization buys in and is fully going after a Super Bowl and really trying to win a Super Bowl is the other question. But talent-wise they’ve had some good players. I was fortunate to play with a lot of really good players - just at the receiver position. ... There were some really good ... skill players on the offensive side of the ball. You’ve still got A.J. Green - hopefully he says he wants to come back - we’ll see. But they’re drafting No. 1 for a reason - it’s because they were the worst team in the National Football League. So obviously he’s not going into an environment like Patrick Mahomes went into in Kansas City. So we’ll see.”

Let's lay this out with some history from when Palmer signed his extension on December 29th, 2005 to when he was traded on October 19th, 2011. Let's look at how the offensive line and rest of offense evolved through Carson's time here. Here was his quote from when he signed that extension with the fact in mind to try and give the club flexibility to help out the rest of the team:
Several offensive linemen have contracts expiring in the next
two years. Palmer hopes the club uses the financial flexibility
from his restructured deal to keep them around.


"That was my main concern, something that could help us out in
the future," Palmer said. "Hopefully we can keep those guys
around. Hopefully some of those guys up front want to stick around
for a while.

At the end of the 2005 season, Palmer had Willie Anderson (30), Levi Jones (26), Eric Steinbach (25), Richie Braham (35) and Bobbie Williams (29) as their OL

2006 Free Agency/Draft
Andrew Whitworth drafted in 2nd round.
Levi Jones signs extension for 6 years.

Hey man, we're committed to the OL!!!!!!

2006 season OL, Willie Anderson (31), Andrew Whitworth (25), Eric Steinbach (26), Eric Ghiaciuc (25), Bobbie Williams (30) (Levi Jones was injured most of year).
2007 Free Agency/Draft
Bobbie Williams resigns for 3 year, 8.6 million.
Stacy Andrews signs for 1 year tender at 1.3 million.
Dan Santucci was drafted in 7th round.

2007 Season OL Stacy Andrews (26), Levi Jones (28), Andrew Whitworth (26), Eric Ghiaciuc (26), and Bobbie Williams (31)
2008 Free Agency/Draft
Stacy Andrews signs 1 year, 7 million
Draft Anthony Collins in Round 4
Extend Whitworth, 6 year, 32 million

Hey man, we're still committed to the OL!!!!!!

2008 Season OL Stacy Andrews (27), Levi Jones (29), Andrew Whitworth (27), Eric Ghiaciuc (27), and Bobbie Williams (32)
Levi Jones demands trade after disagreements with coaching staff and trainers over when he can come back to play. Bengals eventually release Jones because they found no takers for his contract because it was a lot of money for his injury history.

2009 Free Agency/Draft
Draft Andre Smith with 6th pick in draft (with a lot of question marks. He doesn't sign until a month into training camp and right before 4th Pre-season game.
Draft Center Jonathon Luigs in 4th round (is out of league after 1 year with Bengals because he couldn't beat out Kyle Cook)

This is where things get ugly. Our defense ranks 6th in league in points given up and we go 10-6 because of it.

2009 Season OL ends with Anthony Collins (24), Nate Livings (27), Andrew Whitworth (28), Kyle Cook (26), and Bobbie Williams (33) so we obviously need some OL help.
2010 Free Agency/Draft
Remind you, we don't have a very good OL from 2009.

Sign Dennis Roland to 1 year deal and he starts 12 games (LOL)
Resigns Nate Livings to 1-year deal.
Resign Bobbie Williams to 2-year deal at age 34.
Resign Kyle Cook to 1 year deal
Draft Otis Hudson in 5th Round (waived in last round of cuts before season)
Drat Reggie Stephens in 7th round

It's now obvious we're just trying to Nickel and dime the OL because we're not really committed to being a good franchise.

2010 Season OL ends with Dennis Roland (27), Andrew Whitworth (29), Nate Livings (28) Kyle Cook (27) and Bobbie Williams (34). Notice Andre Smith only starts 6 games because we were fools to draft another loser whose stock was questionable of a Top 10 pick.

We're now to the point of Carson who is probably begging for OL help. He's not exactly doing 'great,' but the OL is horrid. This is when Carson demands a trade and rightfully so. They end up drafting Dalton in 2011 draft. The 2011 Free Agency period is crucial for whomever the next QB will be.

So what do we do? Draft Clint Boling in the 4th round.
Matthew O 'Donnell in FA (LOL)
Re-sign Dennis Roland to 1 year deal
Kyle Cook to 4-year deal worth 14 million. KYLE COOK EVERYONE!

SO in the end, Carson obviously saw what the franchise was doing. When he signed the extension in late 2005, he was probably. bit naive and thought things had changed with Marvin helping him but obviously things didn't work out and that's pretty much when I stopped wasting money and most of my time on the Bengals because I saw the writing on the wall too.

[Todd Gack]

Then find something else to do in your life if the Bengals and Reds cause this sort of reaction....if your only in it to crap on a team then why bother...it's trolling. I am all for being a realist but damn some of you need new hobbies.

I have absolutely 0 issues with pointing out Bengals ineptness I think as a fan since the early 80's we are all realistic about what Mike Brown brings to the table...but some of you are in dead horse territory and bring absolutely nothing new to the conversation.

It gets tired and it got old real quick.


I'm sorry you feel this way. As someone who desperately wants Cincinnati to do well in sports and win a Super Bowl and World Series, it's easy to see cheapness from our view.

Now, I really respect the Reds organization for spending money and trying to win. They have all of my respect. I just don't respect that fans get excited over a Division Championship and we can't close out being up 2-0 in a series and staring 3 games at home to go to NLCS.

[KoryMac5]

Pardon me for a very long post but I think many of you are really ignorant of the history of Palmer's time here in Cincinnati.

Here's the other part of Carson's quote that you fail to mention.


Let's lay this out with some history from when Palmer signed his extension on December 29th, 2005 to when he was traded on October 19th, 2011. Let's look at how the offensive line and rest of offense evolved through Carson's time here. Here was his quote from when he signed that extension with the fact in mind to try and give the club flexibility to help out the rest of the team:
Several offensive linemen have contracts expiring in the next
two years. Palmer hopes the club uses the financial flexibility
from his restructured deal to keep them around.



At the end of the 2005 season, Palmer had Willie Anderson (30), Levi Jones (26), Eric Steinbach (25), Richie Braham (35) and Bobbie Williams (29) as their OL

2006 Free Agency/Draft
Andrew Whitworth drafted in 2nd round.
Levi Jones signs extension for 6 years.

Hey man, we're committed to the OL!!!!!!

2006 season OL, Willie Anderson (31), Andrew Whitworth (25), Eric Steinbach (26), Eric Ghiaciuc (25), Bobbie Williams (30) (Levi Jones was injured most of year).
2007 Free Agency/Draft
Bobbie Williams resigns for 3 year, 8.6 million.
Stacy Andrews signs for 1 year tender at 1.3 million.
Dan Santucci was drafted in 7th round.

2007 Season OL Stacy Andrews (26), Levi Jones (28), Andrew Whitworth (26), Eric Ghiaciuc (26), and Bobbie Williams (31)
2008 Free Agency/Draft
Stacy Andrews signs 1 year, 7 million
Draft Anthony Collins in Round 4
Extend Whitworth, 6 year, 32 million

Hey man, we're still committed to the OL!!!!!!

2008 Season OL Stacy Andrews (27), Levi Jones (29), Andrew Whitworth (27), Eric Ghiaciuc (27), and Bobbie Williams (32)
Levi Jones demands trade after disagreements with coaching staff and trainers over when he can come back to play. Bengals eventually release Jones because they found no takers for his contract because it was a lot of money for his injury history.

2009 Free Agency/Draft
Draft Andre Smith with 6th pick in draft (with a lot of question marks. He doesn't sign until a month into training camp and right before 4th Pre-season game.
Draft Center Jonathon Luigs in 4th round (is out of league after 1 year with Bengals because he couldn't beat out Kyle Cook)

This is where things get ugly. Our defense ranks 6th in league in points given up and we go 10-6 because of it.

2009 Season OL ends with Anthony Collins (24), Nate Livings (27), Andrew Whitworth (28), Kyle Cook (26), and Bobbie Williams (33) so we obviously need some OL help.
2010 Free Agency/Draft
Remind you, we don't have a very good OL from 2009.

Sign Dennis Roland to 1 year deal and he starts 12 games (LOL)
Resigns Nate Livings to 1-year deal.
Resign Bobbie Williams to 2-year deal at age 34.
Resign Kyle Cook to 1 year deal
Draft Otis Hudson in 5th Round (waived in last round of cuts before season)
Drat Reggie Stephens in 7th round

It's now obvious we're just trying to Nickel and dime the OL because we're not really committed to being a good franchise.

2010 Season OL ends with Dennis Roland (27), Andrew Whitworth (29), Nate Livings (28) Kyle Cook (27) and Bobbie Williams (34). Notice Andre Smith only starts 6 games because we were fools to draft another loser whose stock was questionable of a Top 10 pick.

We're now to the point of Carson who is probably begging for OL help. He's not exactly doing 'great,' but the OL is horrid. This is when Carson demands a trade and rightfully so. They end up drafting Dalton in 2011 draft. The 2011 Free Agency period is crucial for whomever the next QB will be.

So what do we do? Draft Clint Boling in the 4th round.
Matthew O 'Donnell in FA (LOL)
Re-sign Dennis Roland to 1 year deal
Kyle Cook to 4-year deal worth 14 million. KYLE COOK EVERYONE!

SO in the end, Carson obviously saw what the franchise was doing. When he signed the extension in late 2005, he was probably. bit naive and thought things had changed with Marvin helping him but obviously things didn't work out and that's pretty much when I stopped wasting money and most of my time on the Bengals because I saw the writing on the wall too.

This is a post that actually adds to a conversation...not the usual Reds suck...Bengals suck nonsense that you spew with limited examples. It's not just here the poor Browns fans have to put up with you as well so I am glad you spread the love on this board. However my original point about Palmer stands and you actually cemented it further. Palmer knew full well what he was dealing with when he agreed to resign with the Bengals after his rookie contract was over. He knew the team wasn't committed to winning but still resigned with a team that wasn't going all in for you to say a eteran who had been here for that length of time was naive is laughable and a stretch...he saw his chance to cash in and did so. In my opinion it's not a good look by Palmer he looks petty especially when talking so highly of the Bidwells.

Burrow will be #1 pick that is certain what is not 100% certain is whether the Bengals and Mike Brown change their approach and feelings about free agency history shows we have a long way to go.

[Redhook]

Palmer knew full well what he was dealing with when he agreed to resign with the Bengals after his rookie contract was over. He knew the team wasn't committed to winning but still resigned with a team that wasn't going all in for you to say a eteran who had been here for that length of time was naive is laughable and a stretch...he saw his chance to cash in and did so. In my opinion it's not a good look by Palmer he looks petty especially when talking so highly of the Bidwells.

Burrow will be #1 pick that is certain what is not 100% certain is whether the Bengals and Mike Brown change their approach and feelings about free agency history shows we have a long way to go.

I understand both sides. To an extent, Palmer knew what he was dealing with, but he had a great line after ‘05. I’m guessing he assumed he would remain protected as a QB. We all know what assuming means though. After that year, it gradually got worse and worse. It took quite a long time to wear him down though.

At the time of his holdout, personally, I was happy that he was taking a stand. The city of Cincinnati and the local media give Mike Brown a pass. Palmer was the only person that had the power to get under Mike’s skin and embarrass him just a little but. For that, I applaud Palmer. I despise Mike Brown so much that I love hearing Palmer rip the franchise even to this day. Since Brown is an evil Scrooge, the little things are all I have at this point.

Burrow will be the #1 pick and Brown isn’t changing. Burrow will need to be a Top 3-5 QB for them to get back to the playoffs. It’ll be tough, but there’s a chance. No Burrow equals no chance. He appears to be the only chance the Bengals have at remaining in Cincinnati long-term. If they don’t have a winning season before the lease is up, I think they’re gone. I don’t think the citizens will pay again if they have 6 more losing in a row.

[Sea Ray]

The citizens aren't paying again. There'll be no more tax increases for stadia. That ship has sailed.

[Bob Sheed]

Could we have a “The Bengals Will Always Be Terrible And All Of You Are Rubes” for Bob and Todd so the rest of us could actually talk about the Bengals offseason?

Could we have a "I'm not interested in reality, I just want to fantasize about the Bengals winning the Superbowl" thread instead?

[Wonderful Monds]

The citizens aren't paying again. There'll be no more tax increases for stadia. That ship has sailed.

Definitely not for the Bengals anyway. That’s why I think they’ll end up in Kentucky.

[KoryMac5]

Could we have a "I'm not interested in reality, I just want to fantasize about the Bengals winning the Superbowl" thread instead?

Everyone here knows the reality of the situation however there are some of us who want to discuss the draft without the gloom and doom scenarios all the time...

[North]

Everyone here knows the reality of the situation however there are some of us who want to discuss the draft without the gloom and doom scenarios all the time...

Point taken. :thumbup:

[GAC]

Everyone here knows the reality of the situation however there are some of us who want to discuss the draft without the gloom and doom scenarios all the time...

And that is the "reality" of the situation. I don't think anyone has ever argued with the message that the Mike Brown era has been terrible, for the most part of the last 30 years. But it's no longer beating a dead horse anymore. They're making hamburger! LOL

It really comes down to an individual (personal) decision IMO. If this ownership's actions/behavior has driven one to the emotional level where they just can't take it anymore, it drives them to fits (and justifiable too), then it ain't worth it and, IMO, they need to cut ties for their own sanity. Like all I enjoy sports, love the competition (obviously) - but when the enjoyment factor disappears then what's the point of continued participation? It then becomes a personal "campaign", a vendetta, to convince the rest to become "like-minded", to feel like they do.

The difference is - the enjoyment factor is still very evident in the majority. It may be only a "flicker" with some, but it's still there. And it's why they're here in these discussions. Sure, we're discussing **** that none of us have any control (say) over, but that's what makes us fans of the game. Yeah, even the Bengals (Browns).

We're not stupid, ignorant, gullible fans being led around by our noses by wily ownership. We know what's going on around us. But we still hold out hope. Nothing wrong with that.

[membengal]

Correct.

[membengal]

It really comes down to an individual (personal) decision IMO. If this ownership's actions/behavior has driven one to the emotional level where they just can't take it anymore, it drives them to fits (and justifiable too), then it ain't worth it and, IMO, they need to cut ties for their own sanity. Like all I enjoy sports, love the competition (obviously) - but when the enjoyment factor disappears then what's the point of continued participation? It then becomes a personal "campaign", a vendetta, to convince the rest to become "like-minded", to feel like they do.

...

We're not stupid, ignorant, gullible fans being led around by our noses by wily ownership. We know what's going on around us. But we still hold out hope. Nothing wrong with that.

This is so on point.

[Bob Sheed]

I think there is room in discussion for both hope and reality. They are not mutually exclusive.

Re: the Burrow tweet. A bunch of different news outlets retweeted what he said about "an organization committed to winning" and who he was obviously referring to. Now it's not on Burrow's twitter feed. So one of two things happened there. Either he deleted the tweet, or it never happened. Gee, I wonder which. :dunno:

And, also worth noting, I really only pull out the Mike Brown explanations when I read stuff like "see, Mike Brown isn't cheap, he spends to the cap every year..." That's not being hopeful. That's being ignorant. There's nothing wrong with hoping Mike Brown decides to prioritize winning higher now that he is about to get a brand new shiny toy. I know that's my hope. But the derp Mike Brown isn't handicapping his own franchise with his frugality and lack of commitment to winning derp is going to get a corrective response from me more often than not. Put me on ignore and bask in your own ignorance if you don't like it. People are here to discuss football, not blind faith. That's in another forum you need to request access for.

[KoryMac5]

I think there is room in discussion for both hope and reality. They are not mutually exclusive.

Re: the Burrow tweet. A bunch of different news outlets retweeted what he said about "an organization committed to winning" and who he was obviously referring to. Now it's not on Burrow's twitter feed. So one of two things happened there. Either he deleted the tweet, or it never happened. Gee, I wonder which. :dunno:

And, also worth noting, I really only pull out the Mike Brown explanations when I read stuff like "see, Mike Brown isn't cheap, he spends to the cap every year..." That's not being hopeful. That's being ignorant. There's nothing wrong with hoping Mike Brown decides to prioritize winning higher now that he is about to get a brand new shiny toy. I know that's my hope. But the derp Mike Brown isn't handicapping his own franchise with his frugality and lack of commitment to winning derp is going to get a corrective response from me more often than not. Put me on ignore and bask in your own ignorance if you don't like it. People are here to discuss football, not blind faith. That's in another forum you need to request access for.

It was not tweeted by Burrow however he was asked in an interview if it were more important to go #1 or to go to the right organization...his exact quote "You want to go #1 but you also want to go to an organization that is committed to winning Super Bowls"

I think the answer was fair and a bit of a shot towards the Bengals in saying if your not going to try in my 5 yrs here then draft someone else.

As far as cap spending goes the Bengals are right around 17th in the NFL when it comes to spending dollars in regards to the cap...pretty much middle of the road in the NFL. Average spending will not get you to a Super Bowl though, smart drafting and smart spending will. So far the Bengals have proven that they are below average at drafting and average at spending which is a bad combination.

If we look at teams like Buffalo and San Fran they have drafted well over the course of the last few years and spent wisely if the Bengals are hoping for a reboot they need to get up to speed and quickly in regards to how the rest of the NFL works.

[RedTeamGo!]

NFL offseason, aka Silly Season.

It cracks me up people think Burrow deliberately put out some (not so) vague shot at the team about to draft him #1.

Burrow is a 23 year old kid going through the most intense situation of his or the vast majority of anyone’s life. He’s in constant interview mode. He has agents telling him over and over and over and over and over again when anyone asks you what is most important the answer is always “winning a super bowl.”

Can’t believe there are grown adult men thinking it’s anything other than that.

And before Bob calls me an ignorant bengals fan, I’m not a bengals fan.

[KoryMac5]

Silly season is definitely in full effect...I just saw a tweet in which Burrow said he might learn to like Skyline chili...I am sure over the course of the next few days that will be dissected to death.

[GAC]

Burrows will have plenty of time to learn (experience) what everyone else has been talking about when it comes to the Brown family (Bengals). What goes along with being the #1 pick? The team, under normal circumstances, that has that pick is usually really, really bad, not in the best of shape. That's why they got the #1 pick!

I find most interviews (questioning) pretty much like beauty pageants where the answer usually revolves around helping humanity by ending world hunger or whatever. Just smile, speak into the mike, and don't embarrass your Mom. LOL

The rest is useless fodder IMO.

[but I'm glad he wants to win a Super Bowl though] ;)

[RedTeamGo!]

It’s seriously hilarious:

“Going number 1 is great, but I just want to win a super bowl.”

Bengals fans: “See!!! He doesn’t want to play for the Bengals!!!”

Can’t make this stuff up.

[Sea Ray]

Definitely not for the Bengals anyway. That’s why I think they’ll end up in Kentucky.

I doubt anybody will raise taxes again in order to pay for a football stadium

[Sea Ray]

It’s seriously hilarious:

“Going number 1 is great, but I just want to win a super bowl.”

Bengals fans: “See!!! He doesn’t want to play for the Bengals!!!”

Can’t make this stuff up.

Very few if any Bengal fans said that this means he doesn't want to play for the Bengals

[KoryMac5]

Good article from Hobson today in regards to TJ and Palmer both working with Burrow leading up to the draft...

https://www.bengals.com/news/housh-giving-burrow-helping-hands

[KoryMac5]

It’s seriously hilarious:

“Going number 1 is great, but I just want to win a super bowl.”

Bengals fans: “See!!! He doesn’t want to play for the Bengals!!!”

Can’t make this stuff up.

It's a slow week news wise for sports and the media has driven the narrative in regards to "why would Burrow want to play for the Bengals" ...I am sure until April we will see every Burrow tweet and interview pulled apart.

[Wonderful Monds]

That “committed to winning” business was absolutely nothing if you watch the full video the quote came from, btw. Dan Patrick was absolutely leading him hard to say something bad about the Bengals, and Burrow was steering away from it the whole time to give a standard neutral typical athlete response.

[RedTeamGo!]

That “committed to winning” business was absolutely nothing if you watch the full video the quote came from, btw. Dan Patrick was absolutely leading him hard to say something bad about the Bengals, and Burrow was steering away from it the whole time to give a standard neutral typical athlete response.

CLEARLY burrow doesn’t want to play for the Bengals. I saw an edited video leading up to the draft.

[Bob Sheed]

derp, strawman bad, derp derp


Well said, red. Well said.

[RedTeamGo!]

Well said, red. Well said.

Lol. I’m not gonna lie - this post made me laugh.

[ScotlandRed]

Joe Burrow will be a Bengal, no matter how much media and haters pray for him not to be. He will change this franchise. Book it now.

[GAC]

You can't fault (at least I'm not) any fan who still carries lingering doubts, skepticism, cynicism, pessimism, and several other "isms" - even in the current atmosphere of excitement (hope) .... because this ownership has created some pretty deep "scars" with their fans over the last three decades that aren't so easy to heal. Some may not UNTIL they see it on the playing field. Understandable too.

The team may be located in Cincinnati ..... but most of their fans are from Missouri thanks to ownership.

Who created the "Schleprock"? I've got some life-long Bengals fans (family, friends) spanning almost 50 years. Some have "held on", and some haven't. Can say the same thing about the Browns living here in central Ohia. It's like spending years supporting someone you really care about who is battling a bad drug habit. You've been by their side, loyal, for years. But they drive you to the point where you say "I just can't do this anymore!" LOL

Why do I still hold that optimism, glimmer of hope, for The Bengals? Burrows is (can) only be a part of it. Central piece yeah, but a General still has to have the soldiers to lead. IMO, this upcoming draft, and season, will be far more telling - better tool for evaluation - as to whether Zac Taylor is the man or not. I've always held a consistent position when it comes to first year (rookie) head coaches. First you have to look at the circumstances they are coming into (usually dire), and what should be the level of expectation when you're trying to assemble your coaching staff and BEGIN to build his "vision" of where he wants to take the team? Too small of a window IMO. That's why I didn't criticize Taylor much last year.

But this year it's different.

I think even the stiff-necked Browns, when they gaze out over an empty stadium on Sunday, realize this can't continue as is. Change has to be made. But I also think fans may possibly be seeing the "light at the end of the tunnel" as far as Mike Brown (involvement) is concerned. A "changing of the guard". Signs are that Katie Brown has become more involved (force) in the decision-making, along with hubby and brother. Zac Taylor was their guy. And they gave him total control over the draft last year didn't they? Is this a sign of a change in direction as far as this "new" management is concerned? Yeah I know, she's Mike Brown's daughter. He groomed her.

Lets just see what happens moving forward. But that's the $64 dollar question for me going into the draft and '20 season.

[membengal]

Last night at the latest superest of bowls drove home the point that all things being equal you want a transcendent quarterback. SF has gone with the build a team and a caretaker qb route and it wasn’t enough. On balance, if you can try for a potential superstar qb, you try. The bengals are not trading back.

[Redsfaithful]

QB > defensive line, Burrow already put that to bed, but if he hadn't last night would have done so.

[reds77]

Last night at the latest superest of bowls drove home the point that all things being equal you want a transcendent quarterback. SF has gone with the build a team and a caretaker qb route and it wasn’t enough. On balance, if you can try for a potential superstar qb, you try. The bengals are not trading back.

Agreed, Burrow transcending the ineptitude of Mike Brown is the team's best hope.

[membengal]

I am now strongly considering going to the draft. Only hesitation came from my very smart wife who asked - and she's not wrong - if I needed to be worried about jinxing the pick of Burrow if I go in person...

Fair concern.

[RichRed]

I am now strongly considering going to the draft. Only hesitation came from my very smart wife who asked - and she's not wrong - if I needed to be worried about jinxing the pick of Burrow if I go in person...

Fair concern.

Either way, it would be a day you’d never forget.

[UKFlounder]

If you have the chance to go, just go ahead, do it and have a blast



I am now strongly considering going to the draft. Only hesitation came from my very smart wife who asked - and she's not wrong - if I needed to be worried about jinxing the pick of Burrow if I go in person...

Fair concern.

[Redsfaithful]

I am now strongly considering going to the draft. Only hesitation came from my very smart wife who asked - and she's not wrong - if I needed to be worried about jinxing the pick of Burrow if I go in person...

Fair concern.

I am thinking about it, but we're already going to Canadian Rockies and Disneyland as a family this year, not sure I can justify it. So tempting though, and I've never had the slightest desire to go before.

[bucksfan2]

Last night at the latest superest of bowls drove home the point that all things being equal you want a transcendent quarterback. SF has gone with the build a team and a caretaker qb route and it wasn’t enough. On balance, if you can try for a potential superstar qb, you try. The bengals are not trading back.

This stuck in my mind from last night. If you think Burrow is a Mahomes level of QB, an elite top tier QB, you can't pass that up. Those guys can put a team on their shoulders and win a game. If you don't believe Burrow is a Mahomes level QB, take Young and build that line that was one series away from winning a SB.

[Hillsdale87]

This stuck in my mind from last night. If you think Burrow is a Mahomes level of QB, an elite top tier QB, you can't pass that up. Those guys can put a team on their shoulders and win a game. If you don't believe Burrow is a Mahomes level QB, take Young and build that line that was one series away from winning a SB.

But as good as that D line was, a mediocre QB cost them the Super Bowl. I don't know if Burrow is Mahomes level as I'm not sure anybody is, but if he has the tools to be a top 10 QB, and I think he does, then you need to get him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[membengal]

Using the fanspeak mock feature (that one will propose trades) and the Matt Miller big board I just ended up with this crew by trading down in several instances (I ended up with an extra 3rd and 5th and two extra 4ths) and making the following selections:

1: R1P1

QB JOE BURROW
LSU

38: R2P6

WR BRANDON AIYUK
ARIZONA STATE

69: R3P5

LB MALIK HARRISON
OHIO STATE

73: R3P9

OT PRINCE TEGA WANOGHO
AUBURN

104: R4P1

TE ADAM TRAUTMAN
DAYTON

124: R4P21

CB LAMAR JACKSON
NEBRASKA

140: R4P37

WR ISAIAH HODGINS
OREGON STATE

147: R5P1

CB TROY PRIDE JR.
NOTRE DAME

160: R5P14

OT BEN BARTCH
ST. JOHNS

180: R6P1

G SHANE LEMIEUX
OREGON

215: R7P1

S JALEN ELLIOTT
NOTRE DAME

[KoryMac5]

Bengals 2nd round pick will be in very high demand...that's the one they have to consider dealing if they can move back and still get a guy they want.

[Big Red Smokey]

I was under the impression that Palmer demanded a trade cause all his guaranteed money was already paid up. Bengals always front load their deals with nice signing bonuses so not to have guaranteed bad cap holds on the back end, which is smart.
Considering the Ravens and Steelers both had $20 mil + cap hits against them last year

[KoryMac5]

I was under the impression that Palmer demanded a trade cause all his guaranteed money was already paid up. Bengals always front load their deals with nice signing bonuses so not to have guaranteed bad cap holds on the back end, which is smart.
Considering the Ravens and Steelers both had $20 mil + cap hits against them last year

In 2005 his signing bonus was 15 million so when he asked to be traded he was under contract for 10.5 million.

[Big Red Smokey]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2274314

[Bob Sheed]

I was under the impression that Palmer demanded a trade cause all his guaranteed money was already paid up. Bengals always front load their deals with nice signing bonuses so not to have guaranteed bad cap holds on the back end, which is smart.
Considering the Ravens and Steelers both had $20 mil + cap hits against them last year


Following the Bengals' 4–12 finish in the 2010 season, Palmer requested to be traded.[79] Bengals president Mike Brown turned down Palmer's request the next day.[80] News reports said that Palmer was prepared to retire if necessary. WCPO-TV reported that a friend of Palmer quoted him as saying, "I will never set foot in Paul Brown Stadium again. I have $80 million in the bank." Palmer also reportedly said: "I don't have to play football for money. I'll play it for the love of the game, but that would have to be elsewhere."[81] Palmer's agent said, "Because of the lack of success that Carson and the Bengals have experienced together, Carson strongly feels that a separation between him and the Bengals would be in the best interest of both parties."[81] In seven seasons under Palmer, the Bengals appeared in the playoffs twice (2005 and 2009), and did not win any playoff games.

During an interview at the 2011 NFL Draft, head coach Marvin Lewis said that Carson Palmer told him he has planned to retire. In response, the Bengals selected TCU quarterback Andy Dalton in the second round. On July 26, 2011 a video posted on NFL.com showed a press conference held by Mike Brown, the president of the Bengals, stating that he did not expect Palmer to return to the Bengals for the 2011 season, the organization wished him well, and that there were no plans to trade him. When asked why he would not trade Carson, Mike Brown answered:

Carson signed a contract. He made a commitment. He gave his word. We relied on his word. We relied on his commitment. We expected him to perform here. He's going to walk away from his commitment. We aren't going to reward him for doing it.[82]

Consequently, Palmer was placed on the reserve/did not report list on July 29, 2011, after failing to report to training camp.[83][84]

Enter, Hue Jackson, head coach of the Oakland Raiders. Jackson pulled a Bob Bedinghaus that would make even Bob Bedinghaus blush, and earned his Mike Brown Loyalty Lifetime Achievement Award.

It's quintessential Bengals History. In a mind numbing sort of way.

[Bob Sheed]

Many here have worked for a boss at a job that, for one reason or another, just eats at your soul. The Bengals have a conga line of ex-players who can relate.

Corey Dillon, everyone:



While the Bengals won without him, Dillon bristled at his lack of carries and told reporters he wanted out. After a loss to Cleveland left the Bengals 8-8 and ended their season, Dillon threw his helmet, shoulder pads and cleats into the stands at Paul Brown Stadium, convinced he would be traded with two years left on his contract.

"They don't need me," Dillon said afterward. "They've been winning, quote unquote, without me."


Carl "Prickly" Pickens? Google the "Carl Pickens Clause" :lol: Yep, that was a real thing.


He annoyed the Bengals by suggesting, among other things, that Bruce Coslet wasn't the right coach for the Bengals. He may have been right about that, but it wasn't the appropriate thing to say after pocketing all that money.

Regarding his reputation in Cincinnati, Pickens said, "When everything around you is negative, you can't help but be negative."


Or Lee Johnson?


The Cincinnati Bengals released 14-year veteran punter Lee Johnson on Monday, a day after he suggested the front office needs to change.
During the loss Sunday about two dozen banners decked Cinergy Field calling for Brown to step down as general manager. After the game, Johnson said he wouldn't have bought a ticket if he were a fan.

"No, no way," Johnson said. "You're saying (losing) is OK. I guess if you've got nothing else to do. I'd sell my tickets."

He also said that the front office's methods aren't working. The Bengals haven't had a winning record since Brown took control of the team following his father's death before the 1991 season.


Jeez, who else? There have been so many. AJ Green is kind of the 2019 version. Mike Brown's cheapness caused AJ injury, and ever since, AJ has been "all business."

Really hoping Burrow is the magic potion to offset Mike Brown's handicaps. But man that's a lot of pressure to put on a kid. Burrow is going to need brass footballs to turn the Bengals around. Because if he can't part the Ohio River and walk to work from his Northern Kentucky estate, he will most likely fall short.

[membengal]

Every effort to talk about the current team you derail. Well done.

[Bob Sheed]

Every effort to talk about the current team you derail. Well done.

This one is pretty good, positive read.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/3/21120408/bengals-t-j-houshmandzadeh-joe-burrow-nfl-draft-training

I always liked TJ. Underdog. 7th round pick wasn't he? Ascended to the Pro Bowl. He lived under the same environment that Palmer did. But what I like the most is, he's remained positive and he's with Palmer's brother, trying to help Burrow. He deliberately says that they won't bash the Bengals when working with Burrow. 100 percent just trying to make him better, while still preparing him for what working for Mike Brown means.

It's true there is no benefit looking backwards. And I really do like reading about ex-Bengals that aren't either still mad, or ambivalent. Especially in the context of helping what may be the Bengals best chance since Greg Cook.

[membengal]

Thanks for re-directing it back to the present. Yes, the quotes from Housh were more helpful.

I am fairly obsessively running mocks and it is apparent how deep this draft is in the middle rounds this year. I am really hoping that the bengals trade back in two and/or three a bit and pick up some extra mid round picks. There’s a lot of help to be had.

[Bob Sheed]

Thanks for re-directing it back to the present. Yes, the quotes from Housh were more helpful.

I am fairly obsessively running mocks and it is apparent how deep this draft is in the middle rounds this year. I am really hoping that the bengals trade back in two and/or three a bit and pick up some extra mid round picks. There’s a lot of help to be had.

Exactly. They have that 1st pick in the 2nd round that could easily be converted to more picks. Marvin Lewis used to like to stockpile picks. And no coincidence, the Bengals drafted far better when he did. If for no other reason, Brown and Tobin had more darts to throw at the draft board. Point being, the Bengals would do well to give their 2 scout, lackey and owner "War Room" as many chances as they can, to hit the bulls-eye blindfolded.

Back to Burrow, he's gonna need a support group. He's coming into a potentially really weird environment, even by Bengal standards. Will Dalton still be there? Normally I'd say no way. But this is Mike Brown we're talking about. Will Green?

My ideal is they flip Dalton for a draft pick. Maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick? Franchise Green. And Burrow finds a way to hit Ross in stride and simultaneously renew AJ Green's faith in the Bengals. Mixon, with a top-tier QB to compliment his skill-set, not just as a rusher but as a receiver... would be dangerous.

Who is a super old QB, wise but unable to win anymore? That's who the Bengals need. Someone to advise Burrow. But if Burrow goes down, the Bengals need to lose badly and get another year of high draft picks. Is Kitna still available?

The wildcard is obviously the oline.

[membengal]

Between vets they could deal for picks and judicious trade backs (which they did last year too) I would like to see them come away with 10 picks in the draft (they only have seven now) - the roster overall needs an overhaul and even where I think they are set challengers for playing time.

[WVRed]

The last three years they’ve traded back in the second round. Last year didn’t turn out so far with Sample, but they did hit on Bates and Mixon.

I’m fine with moving back as long as someone doesn’t drop that fills a need. Kenneth Murray is someone I’d like to see in the second if he drops, or possibly Grant Delpit.

[Redsfaithful]

Between vets they could deal for picks and judicious trade backs (which they did last year too) I would like to see them come away with 10 picks in the draft (they only have seven now) - the roster overall needs an overhaul and even where I think they are set challengers for playing time.

I didn't realize this, and you might have seen since it was all over Bengals twitter, but apparently they hold the top waiver wire position through week 3. You can really improve the bottom of a roster with that positioning.

[membengal]

I did - and that will be a huge help too as they overhaul the roster. Especially at CB and LB I bet. They can start to improve depth right away with that waiver wire position.

[UKFlounder]

Theoretically that sounds good, but they had 11 picks going into last years draft and it ended up being a disaster even with the trades they made. Is making more bad picks really an improvement?

They Will have pretty much the same people making decisions this year, so hopefully they make better choices, whether with 7 picks or 10.


Between vets they could deal for picks and judicious trade backs (which they did last year too) I would like to see them come away with 10 picks in the draft (they only have seven now) - the roster overall needs an overhaul and even where I think they are set challengers for playing time.

[Redsfaithful]

I'd like to get the story of what happened in that draft last year. It was pretty weird after round one.

One thing I liked about the Marvin era, they usually didn't reach, and they usually didn't try to outsmart the other 31 teams. They were up and down over the years while he was here, but for the most part they tried to get value, and it didn't feel like that much last year.

[Bob Sheed]

From the Enquirer TML. As usual, spot on:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/blogs/daugherty-blog/2020/02/04/docs-morning-line-fc-cincinnati-showing-spend-money-mls-schedule-roster-designated-player/4653713002/


A FRIEND OF MINE (yeah, I do have a few) called Sunday morning to run his latest Bengals theory by me. The guy is the banner king diehard whose obsession is discussed occasionally in This Space.

He says that the Men will reach glory with Joe Burrow, because Marvin Lewis is no longer the coach and Ben Roethlisberger’s days are few. Lewis isn’t here to lose more playoff games, and Ben won’t be here to beat the Bengals in decisive games. Somehow, my guy believes the organization will build a very good team around Saint Joe.

I wasn’t buying it.

If you believe Marv and Ben are the reasons The Men haven’t achieved, I’ve got a Ced Ogbuehi to sell you. I’ll even throw in a Billy Price.

Two-and-14 wasn’t scary. What’s scary is what 2-14 taught the organization. Which was, drum roll please, nothing. Listening to de facto GM Duke Tobin speak at length is like listening to every Mike Brown press appearance for the past 3 decades. The two are one and the same, and if you don’t think that was totally by design, you’ve been living on a spread in Montana.

A cursory glance at how the 49ers ascended quickly from the dead showed their 3-pronged player acquisition attack. Trades, free agents, draft. KC same way, to a lesser extent. These clubs were smart and aggressive and had plans. The Men have hopes.

That, my good friend, has nothing to do with Marv and Ben.

He's been covering the Bengals about as long as I have. He knows Mike Brown. I hope he's wrong.

That's my biggest concern. That the Bengals Front Office is thinking, 'cool, we have Burrow now. He'll fix everything. Business as usual." Because that's how the shiny new toy gets broken. Probably by the Steelers on a missed assignment from some offensive linemen who was drafted way too high.

Please prove me wrong, Mike Brown. Just once.

[WVRed]

From the Enquirer TML. As usual, spot on:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/blogs/daugherty-blog/2020/02/04/docs-morning-line-fc-cincinnati-showing-spend-money-mls-schedule-roster-designated-player/4653713002/



He's been covering the Bengals about as long as I have. He knows Mike Brown. I hope he's wrong.

Interesting article.

The one thing San Fran did that the Bengals haven’t though:

1. They sucked for longer. There was no dead cat bounce and had Jimmy G not gotten hurt last season they wouldn’t have been bad enough to take Nick Bosa.

2. Speaking of Bosa, that’s been the MO. Looking back:
2019: Bosa (2)
2018: McGlinchey (9)
2017: Solomon Thomas (3)
2016: DeForest Buckner (7)
2015: Arik Armstead (17)

The last five drafts have been primarily defensive line with the exception of McGlinchey and even then, all of their picks the last five years have gone to upgrade the trenches.

Not to mention bringing in a head coach who brought in a modernized version of his dads cut blocking scheme.

[KoryMac5]

I think the other fact that the article left out is how bad that Garoppolo contract is going to look 24 mil per season for a game manager...yikes.

However I agree with the premise of the article in regards to how those teams improved. I think you only need to look a few hours away for a good blue print in regards to revitalizing a franchise.

Buffalo
Solid coach
Good GM
Smart free agent spending

Are the Bengals willing to do any of the above...past data indicates no but having Burrow and the 5 yr window may change that.

[bucksfan2]

From the Enquirer TML. As usual, spot on:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/blogs/daugherty-blog/2020/02/04/docs-morning-line-fc-cincinnati-showing-spend-money-mls-schedule-roster-designated-player/4653713002/



He's been covering the Bengals about as long as I have. He knows Mike Brown. I hope he's wrong.

That's my biggest concern. That the Bengals Front Office is thinking, 'cool, we have Burrow now. He'll fix everything. Business as usual." Because that's how the shiny new toy gets broken. Probably by the Steelers on a missed assignment from some offensive linemen who was drafted way too high.

Please prove me wrong, Mike Brown. Just once.

Doc is a "get off my lawn" old man. I think his in-depth knowledge of the sports he covers is pretty minuscule. He has pandered to your average newspaper reader for far too long.

I do think there is something to be said about Marvin's big game disappointments as well as Big Ben and the Steelers. The Bengals were one of the better teams in the AFC but never had enough to get over the Brady, Manning, Roethlesburger hump. I think there is something to be said about having to compete against two of the best QB's in the history of the sport. Does it excuse the shortcomings, nope. But it at least gives some context to it.

I don't believe the Bengals have the 32nd ranked team in the league. This past season was a disaster in so many ways, and the benching of Dalton probably prevented them from having the 4-6th pick. I do think they need to nail this draft, not just the #1 overall pick, but also the the 2nd - 5th round picks. They need to help the team through free agency, and as someone mentioned, they own the #1 waiver wire spot until some point during next year, they need to build depth that way.

The 49ers were bad for 5 years before they got things rolling this season. It didn't hurt that their franchise QB missed most of last year resulting in the #2 overall pick with the Rookie or the year sitting there. The Bengals need to add talent, which may be a multiple year build, but I think if done right (which is a massive question mark) they can get back to being competitive soon.

[bucksfan2]

I think the other fact that the article left out is how bad that Garoppolo contract is going to look 24 mil per season for a game manager...yikes.

However I agree with the premise of the article in regards to how those teams improved. I think you only need to look a few hours away for a good blue print in regards to revitalizing a franchise.

Buffalo
Solid coach
Good GM
Smart free agent spending

Are the Bengals willing to do any of the above...past data indicates no but having Burrow and the 5 yr window may change that.

The Bills got rid of a bunch of dead money and then started to build.

The Bills benefited from a division that had both the Dolphins and Jets, who both were terrible.

The Bills will go as far as Josh Allen takes them. If Josh Allen becomes a top 10 level QB, I think the Bills can replace the Pats in the East. If he doesn't improve, I think the Bills continue what they are, competitive, not great, probably hovering around the 6-10 to 10-6 depending on the supporting cast.

[membengal]

Theoretically that sounds good, but they had 11 picks going into last years draft and it ended up being a disaster even with the trades they made. Is making more bad picks really an improvement?

They Will have pretty much the same people making decisions this year, so hopefully they make better choices, whether with 7 picks or 10.

Coaches in place ahead of time, senior bowl experience, and a deeper draft. I think they were hamstrung by the organization lack of scouts and not having the bulk of the staff hired in time to do the coaches scouting properly they rely on as an organization. That’s an issue in my opinion that points back to ownership issues - but this time around they don’t have those same issues as the coaching staff is intact and better knows what they have on hand and what they want to run.

[membengal]

Also, Paul Daugherty remains a terrible person.

[Todd Gack]

I thought Dan Patrick's take on this was spot on. All in all, it just sounds like Burrow is at least considering all of his options including demanding a trade. Which he should.
https://twitter.com/dpshow/status/1224792240771358720

[Todd Gack]

I'd like to get the story of what happened in that draft last year. It was pretty weird after round one.

One thing I liked about the Marvin era, they usually didn't reach, and they usually didn't try to outsmart the other 31 teams. They were up and down over the years while he was here, but for the most part they tried to get value, and it didn't feel like that much last year.

I'd agree. The Sample pick came out of left field. It was criticized heavily from the get go. I still don't get it. I mean, when you think about it, they had to choose an OL with the first pick because our OL was SOOOO bad. The rest of the picks, notwithstanding Michael Jordan, were "Mehh" at best.

[Ohayou]

I thought Dan Patrick's take on this was spot on. All in all, it just sounds like Burrow is at least considering all of his options including demanding a trade. Which he should.
https://twitter.com/dpshow/status/1224792240771358720

His take is no different than the rest of what I'm hearing. What's the point of bringing up Klingler and Akili Smith, but not Palmer and Dalton? Say what you want about playoff success, but Palmer/Dalton account for 15 years of solid QB production. I can name at least 10 other NFL teams off the top of my head who have had a revolving door of subpar QB's over the same time period.

[Todd Gack]

His take is no different than the rest of what I'm hearing. What's the point of bringing up Klingler and Akili Smith, but not Palmer and Dalton? Say what you want about playoff success, but Palmer/Dalton account for 15 years of solid QB production. I can name at least 10 other NFL teams off the top of my head who have had a revolving door of subpar QB's over the same time period.

Yes, but Palmer has already said what we all know about the Brown family and I'm assuming Andy is too nice to never say anything (Which is part of the reason why he could never perform well when it counted). Even when we had Palmer and Dalton, we didn't do anything except beat teams when it didn't count.

[UKFlounder]

That’s reasonable. I hope it makes a positive difference



Coaches in place ahead of time, senior bowl experience, and a deeper draft. I think they were hamstrung by the organization lack of scouts and not having the bulk of the staff hired in time to do the coaches scouting properly they rely on as an organization. That’s an issue in my opinion that points back to ownership issues - but this time around they don’t have those same issues as the coaching staff is intact and better knows what they have on hand and what they want to run.

[WVRed]

I'd agree. The Sample pick came out of left field. It was criticized heavily from the get go. I still don't get it. I mean, when you think about it, they had to choose an OL with the first pick because our OL was SOOOO bad. The rest of the picks, notwithstanding Michael Jordan, were "Mehh" at best.

Pratt might be serviceable, but unless Sample is the next George Kittle next season it was a wasted pick.

[membengal]

https://twitter.com/sethgalina/status/1224466121325150209?s=21

[WVRed]

Marvin sighting:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101207/article/exbengals-coach-marvin-lewis-named-asu-codc

[North]

Marvin sighting:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101207/article/exbengals-coach-marvin-lewis-named-asu-codc

Well, with that position, Marvin's complete lack of time management skills won't hurt the team.

[GAC]

I am now strongly considering going to the draft. Only hesitation came from my very smart wife who asked - and she's not wrong - if I needed to be worried about jinxing the pick of Burrow if I go in person...

Fair concern.

Just a hypothetical question (if you do attend). If for some strange, weird, whatever reason the Bengals don't draft Burrows ...

are we gonna see you on TV? LOL

[GAC]

I do think they need to nail this draft, not just the #1 overall pick, but also the the 2nd - 5th round picks. They need to help the team through free agency, and as someone mentioned, they own the #1 waiver wire spot until some point during next year, they need to build depth that way.

And when your organization shies away from free agency/market (for the most part) there is no room for error in the draft. You have to nail every one because that's primarily where you're playing your marbles, hedging your bets. It's a "limitation", a stiff-necked approach, that has hurt (hindered) this organization IMO. They've lost far more valuable players to the market then they've signed.

[membengal]

Just a hypothetical question (if you do attend). If for some strange, weird, whatever reason the Bengals don't draft Burrows ...

are we gonna see you on TV? LOL

My desire to not be a meme would argue against that possibility. Also, there's supposedly a lot of Bengals fans making the sojourn. I will let someone else's anguish be twitter fodder in that horrible scenario and comfort myself at the hold 'em tables...

[membengal]

Official - I am going. I have booked the flights and the hotel. Got half on each due to points. Here we go. My lifelong bad luck jinx versus the Bengals doing the right thing and the national media trying to stir up trouble. What could possibly go wrong????

Also, if anyone on here ends up there, send me a message and let's watch the pick together. Or get drunk if it goes wrong.

[Bob Sheed]

Marvin sighting:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101207/article/exbengals-coach-marvin-lewis-named-asu-codc

No mention of Hue? Marvin probably told him to just wait in the car.

[bucksfan2]

And when your organization shies away from free agency/market (for the most part) there is no room for error in the draft. You have to nail every one because that's primarily where you're playing your marbles, hedging your bets. It's a "limitation", a stiff-necked approach, that has hurt (hindered) this organization IMO. They've lost far more valuable players to the market then they've signed.

Free agency in football has come a long way recently. Trying to build through free agency is a fools errand, especially if you go into it trying to find your cornerstone player. The way football is structure today, most top tier FA's end up playing their productive years with one organization. I think where teams are successful in free agency is adding depth, adding starters, adding players who may not be top tier, but can have an impact in the scheme they run.

The Bengals have been beyond bad over the past few years in identifying free agent players to fill holes in their roster. When they were successful, they added to the depth of their roster with some free agent signings. Over the past years, they have tried to plug several gaps with guys who just weren't any good.

[membengal]

Jeremy Rauch
@FOX19Jeremy
A text from Joe Burrow's dad on the continuing thought that Joe might not want to go No. 1 (to a certain team):

"Not sure where that information is coming from. We are excited Joe has put himself in a position to be considered a possible high draft choice."
@fox19

[Todd Gack]

Jeremy Rauch
@FOX19Jeremy
A text from Joe Burrow's dad on the continuing thought that Joe might not want to go No. 1 (to a certain team):

"Not sure where that information is coming from. We are excited Joe has put himself in a position to be considered a possible high draft choice."
@fox19

Hey dad, Joe Burrow basically said it himself.

Dan Patrick: Is being #1 or to the right team more important to you?
Joe Burrow said: "Combination of both. You know you want to go #1 but you also want to go to a great organization that's committed to winning and committed to winning Super Bowls."

I think everyone has pretty much agreed that the Bengals aren't committed to winning Super Bowls, correct?

[membengal]

No. But sorry that the Burrow family is stepping on your hate mike brown wankfest.

[Ohayou]

Hey dad, Joe Burrow basically said it himself.


I think everyone has pretty much agreed that the Bengals aren't committed to winning Super Bowls, correct?

That's what Joe said?

[membengal]

It was not.

[reds77]

Eric Dickerson was on Cowherd's show and said the Bungles have always been the Bungles. He said Burrow's career will go nowhere if he's a Bengal. Nothing we haven't heard before, but man he was right to the point in saying it.

[Ohayou]

It was not.

I know this. People are looking for hidden meanings that aren't there.

[Kingspoint]

Official - I am going. I have booked the flights and the hotel. Got half on each due to points. Here we go. My lifelong bad luck jinx versus the Bengals doing the right thing and the national media trying to stir up trouble. What could possibly go wrong????

Also, if anyone on here ends up there, send me a message and let's watch the pick together. Or get drunk if it goes wrong.Which uniform will you be wearing?

- - - Updated - - -


Eric Dickerson was on Cowherd's show and said the Bungles have always been the Bungles. He said Burrow's career will go nowhere if he's a Bengal. Nothing we haven't heard before, but man he was right to the point in saying it.

Until proven otherwise, he's correct. Same goes for the Detroit Lions.

[UKFlounder]

- - - Updated - - -


Until proven otherwise, he's correct. Same goes for the Detroit Lions.

Dickerson’s teams weren’t exactly a dynasty either, so perhaps he speaks from experience

[Bob Sheed]

A few things here:

1. Burrow said it, he didn't tweet it. But he did say it.
2. Was he referring to the Bengals? Who knows... Worst case scenario, he was. Best case, it was just a awkward thing to say, because the Bengals are most likely drafting him, and the Bengals are the Bengals.
3. Is the Bengals Front Office committed to winning the Super Bowl? Most people paying attention, if they are being honest, would say, comparatively, no they are not.

So here you have a most likely innocuous comment from Burrow, given meaning, because most perceive the Bengals front office as either unwilling or unable to build a successful franchise. My money is on the former, others would say the latter. Still others would point to all those one and done playoff appearances as proof to the contrary, that they have actually achieved quite a bit of success. To which I would respond with this of course:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cincinnati_Bengals_seasons
and advise them to start at 1991 when Mike Brown took over, and let me know how that 30 year track record is looking.

Burrow's talent may transcend Mike Brown's unwillingness to prioritize winning. And the Bengals may reach great heights as a result. That would make me very happy, as a Bengals fan. But make no mistake, if such heights are reached, it will be very much in spite of Mike Brown and his self-imposed handicaps, not because of him.

That's the big elephant in the room, and that's why I wonder if it was a subtle poke at Mike Brown, because Burrow is plenty smart enough to be well aware of said elephant in the room.

Burrow grew up in Ohio. Again, he is well aware of Mike Brown's body of work. He's gotta be conflicted. I know I would be.

[Kingspoint]

Dickerson’s teams weren’t exactly a dynasty either, so perhaps he speaks from experience

Dickerson ran into some really bad timing. The pre-Kurt Warner years and the pre-Peyton Manning years, with both Clubs involved in relocations. Then injuries shortened his career while in Indy.

[Kingspoint]

A few things here:

1. Burrow said it, he didn't tweet it. But he did say it.
2. Was he referring to the Bengals? Who knows... Worst case scenario, he was. Best case, it was just a awkward thing to say, because the Bengals are most likely drafting him, and the Bengals are the Bengals.
3. Is the Bengals Front Office committed to winning the Super Bowl? Most people paying attention, if they are being honest, would say, comparatively, no they are not.

So here you have a most likely innocuous comment from Burrow, given meaning, because most perceive the Bengals front office as either unwilling or unable to build a successful franchise. My money is on the former, others would say the latter. Still others would point to all those one and done playoff appearances as proof to the contrary, that they have actually achieved quite a bit of success. To which I would respond with this of course:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cincinnati_Bengals_seasons
and advise them to start at 1991 when Mike Brown took over, and let me know how that 30 year track record is looking.

Burrow's talent may transcend Mike Brown's unwillingness to prioritize winning. And the Bengals may reach great heights as a result. That would make me very happy, as a Bengals fan. But make no mistake, if such heights are reached, it will be very much in spite of Mike Brown and his self-imposed handicaps, not because of him.

That's the big elephant in the room, and that's why I wonder if it was a subtle poke at Mike Brown, because Burrow is plenty smart enough to be well aware of said elephant in the room.

Burrow grew up in Ohio. He is well aware of Mike Brown's body of work. He's gotta be conflicted. I know I would be.

Of course, it was a subtle poke. He's signing with the Bengals because he's not "that guy". But, he wants the culture and goals at the top to change. It's not like he's stupid. He's from Ohio and knows the Bengals as well as any player in College sports.

[UKFlounder]

And a great player, of course, but for me, those words would mean more coming from Joe Montana or Charles Haley or some other champion. Just me picking nits, I suppose - they have been Bungles since the 90s for the most part




Dickerson ran into some really bad timing. The pre-Kurt Warner years and the pre-Peyton Manning years, with both Clubs involved in relocations. Then injuries shortened his career while in Indy.

[GAC]

Hey dad, Joe Burrow basically said it himself.


A few things here:

1. Burrow said it, he didn't tweet it. But he did say it.

No. He did not. Nowhere in that comment did he say he didn't want to go to the Bengals. What kid, when asked that question, wouldn't respond "I want to go to a team committed to winning and winning a Super Bowl"?

This wasn't some "coded message" sent by Burrow that he doesn't want to be drafted by the Bengals :rolleyes:



I think everyone has pretty much agreed that the Bengals aren't committed to winning Super Bowls, correct?

No. Commitment involves loyalty, dedication to a cause. So the Brown family have dedicated themselves to the cause of never wanting to win a Super Bowl? Yeah. Sounds pretty silly doesn't it? If one wants to question the level of that commitment (effort) that's fine. But Lewis turned this organization around, assembled talent, had some darn good teams that made the post-season. They just fell short. But that happened because of Mike Brown.

What we all pretty much agree on is that the problem is Mike Brown. It's not that Mike doesn't want to win. He just doesn't know how. He inherited the team from his Dad. Like father, like son, his Dad instilled/taught him to be the exact same replica of himself ... a fanatical, obsessive-compulsive, paranoid, control freak who won't trust anyone, or delegate any authority, because you must maintain total control at all times. Tight-fisted grip.

IMO, the only hope as far as the future goes, is that Mike Brown is starting to step away (age), and his children, who are now in charge, are seeing things differently, seeing the empty stadium, seeing fan anger/apathy .. and it has to change. That's all you got.

[KoryMac5]

Burrows father once again shot down rumors that his son does not want to go #1...


"Not sure where that information is coming from. We are excited Joe has put himself in a position to be considered a possible high draft choice."

Lets just put it to rest there is 0 evidence coming from the kids camp that he doesn't want to go #1 and no matter how hard the media (or Gack and Sheed) tries to make a story out of this there is none there. If he didn't want to be a Bengal in this day of social media he would have come right out and said so.

[Redsfaithful]

Eric Dickerson was on Cowherd's show and said the Bungles have always been the Bungles. He said Burrow's career will go nowhere if he's a Bengal. Nothing we haven't heard before, but man he was right to the point in saying it.

Lazy takes abound. "Bad team will stay bad" is pretty easy to defend since you can maintain you are right until they win a Super Bowl, and not many teams do that. The Bengals have recent history of being middle of the pack for a fairly long stretch so I just tune stuff like this out.

It could be argued the biggest flaw of Mike Brown in the last 20 years, apart from not investing properly in scouting, is an inability to move quickly. They go through these down periods largely because they won't move on from players and strategies that aren't working. Getting a Patrick Mahomes/Deshaun Watson/Lamar Jackson and moving on from Dalton isn't hindsight, it was talked about incessently on Bengals Twitter, but the team is never that aggressive because of Brown.

[Todd Gack]

No. But sorry that the Burrow family is stepping on your hate mike brown wankfest.

I mean, Joe knows what DP was getting at and he comes back with an answer that's obviously NOT referring to the Bengals organization.

Also, the fact you don't hate Mike Brown says a lot about you.

[Todd Gack]

Burrows father once again shot down rumors that his son does not want to go #1...



Lets just put it to rest there is 0 evidence coming from the kids camp that he doesn't want to go #1 and no matter how hard the media (or Gack and Sheed) tries to make a story out of this there is none there. If he didn't want to be a Bengal in this day of social media he would have come right out and said so.

The issue isn't that he DIDN'T say he didn't want to to go the Bengals. The issue is that he has never said he wanted to play. Do I think he'll end up playing for us? Of course. In his heart of hearts, does he really want to play here? No, not really. As Patrick said, he's keeping his options open. Going to Cincinnati is probably one of the 3 worst places to go, if not, the worst.


Edit: Honest question: Has Burrow ever said he'd love to play for the Bengals? I might have selective memory but I don't ever remember him saying he'd love to come here.

[membengal]

I mean, Joe knows what DP was getting at and he comes back with an answer that's obviously NOT referring to the Bengals organization.

Also, the fact you don't hate Mike Brown says a lot about you.

You are genuinely a crappy poster. This was all covered in a back and forth with sheed and I don’t wish to repeat it for you.

[Bob Sheed]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/joe-burrows-dad-tries-to-tamp-down-speculation-they-dont-want-to-be-bengals/amp/

I mean...

[Hillsdale87]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/02/06/joe-burrows-dad-tries-to-tamp-down-speculation-they-dont-want-to-be-bengals/amp/

I mean...

Why would Burrow say he can't wait to play for the Bengals as Florio suggests? He's definitely the extremely heavy favorite to be the #1 pick, but if for some reason the Bengals go elsewhere, then he looks like an idiot. Anybody going #1 is going to the worst team in the NFL, so it's rarely a great situation to come into. I'm sure he'd rather the Patriots trade up and pick him, and nobody could blame him for that, but there's no reason to believe he's going to refuse to go to the Bengals outside of the media trying to sensationalize a story so that they have something to talk about for the next 3 months.

And on Carson, there's a lot of revisionist history going on there. Yes, the Browns were terrible owners. But that team was well set up to be good for a while until Palmer got hurt. The Bengals ineptitude for the following years was as much on Palmer's struggles (due to injuries) as the Browns. I don't blame Palmer for his injuries, but the reality is that the team was built around him, and then he couldn't perform because of knee and elbow injuries and the team was terrible. It's not like he was good again as soon as he got away from Cincinnati. He was average to bad for a 6 year stretch. The Bengals, OTOH, made the playoffs the first year they moved on from Palmer. Yes, Mike Brown is not a win at all costs owner. We all wish he was. But when things break right, he's put together some good teams. Hopefully things break right this year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redhook]

IMO, the only hope as far as the future goes, is that Mike Brown is starting to step away (age), and his children, who are now in charge, are seeing things differently, seeing the empty stadium, seeing fan anger/apathy .. and it has to change. That's all you got.

Agreed. We just have to hope they have an ounce of sensitivity and pride. If they do, we have hope....that they’ll sell the team. I don’t think they’ll ever change how the organization operates. I really don’t, but maybe they’ll go on their merry way with loads of cash.

[Kingspoint]

Can I get a thread started that's titled: "Positive actions Bengals' Ownership takes towards winning a Championship only posts"?

[membengal]

Can I get a thread started that's titled: "Positive actions Bengals' Ownership takes towards winning a Championship only posts"?

Feel free to keep making obvious complaints here. This is your thread.

[Bob Sheed]

Can I get a thread started that's titled: "Positive actions Bengals' Ownership takes towards winning a Championship only posts"?

Pretty sure you're free to start one, but it's going to be one post saying "draft Joe Burrow" and then a bunch of crickets.

Unless of course the Bengals hire more scouts, build an indoor facility, or participate in meaningful free agency of course.

So yeah, probably crickets there. :lol:

[Bob Sheed]

Feel free to keep making obvious complaints here. This is your thread.

And feel free to discuss climate change while ignoring carbon emissions in yours. :lol:

[Spanky]

No person that has been expected to go No. 1 overall has ever flat out said that they would love to play for the team picking No. 1 overall in February. and Florio is a Steeler fan so...

[KoryMac5]

Let's face facts Burrow is going to be a Bengal no matter how hard people try and change the narrative...

Recap:


1/16 Jim Burrow: "If the #Bengals draft [Joe], he's going to be happy"

1/31 Joe Burrow: You want to go #1. You want to compete for the SB.

2/4 DP: Burrow didn't explicitly say 'Bengals'!!! Might not be committed??

2/5 Jim Burrow: Not sure where that info is coming from

Key dates to see if it is business as usual...

Feb 25th and March 18th Last day to tag a player and opening day of free agency....I am more than willing to wait to see what the plan is.

Bengals will have 85 million to spend after expected cuts...The big question I saw today is will they pony up the guaranteed money to do well in free agency.

[KoryMac5]

Fun fact since 2010 only 8 teams made the playoffs more then the Bengals...

Does Mike Brown suck...yep, no argument needed for that point however the narrative that is being put out there by the media that we are a perennial bottom feeder is way off base.

[Kingspoint]

There's nothing the Bengals can do over the next 8 months that can keep me from enjoying, what looks to be, my favorite REDS' season since 1995. (I did not enjoy any of the Baker years.)

[Todd Gack]

There's nothing the Bengals can do over the next 8 months that can keep me from enjoying, what looks to be, my favorite REDS' season since 1995. (I did not enjoy any of the Baker years.)

I'd agree. 2010 was more of a "I'm just happy to be here" feeling knowing the Phils were probably going to beat us.

2012 was enjoyable but I never really felt like that team was mentally strong. So I always had the feeling that yeah, we were winning games, but I feel like we're not going to do as much as we think.. . . even up 2-0.

[Todd Gack]

Fun fact since 2010 only 8 teams made the playoffs more then the Bengals...

Does Mike Brown suck...yep, no argument needed for that point however the narrative that is being put out there by the media that we are a perennial bottom feeder is way off base.


Who cares? We all knew the Bengals were 'good enough' to make the playoffs but they never did anything to make it seem like they were "all in." Correct? We kept finishing 8-8, 9-7ish with draft picks in the late teens and early 20's with NO FREE AGENT SIGNINGS! Did we trade up? Nope. Did we trade off anything of value to get more value on another part of our team? Nope.

We just kept signing losers like Burfict who had 1st round talent but was obviously a head case. In other words, we were just being cheap.

What exactly makes you think we're all in?

[Todd Gack]

Pretty sure you're free to start one, but it's going to be one post saying "draft Joe Burrow" and then a bunch of crickets.

Unless of course the Bengals hire more scouts, build an indoor facility, or participate in meaningful free agency of course.

So yeah, probably crickets there. :lol:


I forgot that Mike is trying to find someone else to pay for an indoor practice facility.

[Todd Gack]

Let's face facts Burrow is going to be a Bengal no matter how hard people try and change the narrative...

Recap:



Key dates to see if it is business as usual...

Feb 25th and March 18th Last day to tag a player and opening day of free agency....I am more than willing to wait to see what the plan is.

Bengals will have 85 million to spend after expected cuts...The big question I saw today is will they pony up the guaranteed money to do well in free agency.

I will be shocked, SHOCKED, if Zac Taylor has more pull than Marvin. I can't imagine we're going to spend big money in FA. But I will gladly eat crow if we spend a substantial amount on quality FA.

[Kingspoint]

Who cares? We all knew the Bengals were 'good enough' to make the playoffs but they never did anything to make it seem like they were "all in." Correct? We kept finishing 8-8, 9-7ish with draft picks in the late teens and early 20's with NO FREE AGENT SIGNINGS! Did we trade up? Nope. Did we trade off anything of value to get more value on another part of our team? Nope.

We just kept signing losers like Burfict who had 1st round talent but was obviously a head case. In other words, we were just being cheap.

What exactly makes you think we're all in?

Peko, Mauluga, Dre, Hart,...the list of resigning for large sums terrible pieces is very long. Who is it going to be this March proving once again that nothing has changed?

Will they actually trade away players this March for draft picks or just let them play out their contracts, proving once again that nothing has changed?

Will they take advantage of having the first overall pick of Days 2 & 3 by trading down and acquiring more talent from a year where they had their bonus scouting effort by being awarded the coaching jobs at the Senior Bowl thanks to their utter incompetence that led up to them being the worst team in the NFL, or will they just draft those spots showing once again that nothing has changed?

[Kingspoint]

I will be shocked, SHOCKED, if Zac Taylor has more pull than Marvin. I can't imagine we're going to spend big money in FA. But I will gladly eat crow if we spend a substantial amount on quality FA.

...that isn't tried to be spun by Hobson that we signed our own free agents. That don't count, Dilbert.

[Bob Sheed]

Fun fact since 2010 only 8 teams made the playoffs more then the Bengals...

Yes but since 1990, 32 NFL teams have more NFL playoff wins than the Bengals. And since 2010, the year you referenced... 32 teams have as many or more playoff wins than the Bengals. (There are 32 teams in the NFL)



Does Mike Brown suck...yep, no argument needed for that point however the narrative that is being put out there by the media that we are a perennial bottom feeder is way off base.

It's not that they are perennial bottom feeders. The socialist nature of the NFL, when coupled with the cap floor rule, AKA "the Mike Brown Rule", it's pretty much impossible to be a perennial bottom feeder in the NFL. But they do have a ceiling. And it isn't the Super Bowl. You can do an internet search as to why, or even search here. No need to rehash any of that.

The Bengals are many things. But they are not:
1.Perennial bottom feeders
2. Cheap with spending to the cap
3. Cheap in paying their players
4. Clueless

Any of that.

What they are, is a franchise that devotes the absolute bare minimum of resources to non-cap related expenditures. Like scouts. An indoor practice facility. Soft toilet paper. Decorations. Honoring their former players. All of it. Bare. Minimum. But it's more than that. Mike Brown is not stupid. What he is, is frugal. But not just with his money, with his time as well. I get the impression that the reason he doesn't work the system in the slightest way, is because he'd really rather not bother.

"We will go to war with what we have." (Given as an answer as to why he doesn't pursue free agents)
"Business as usual." (Given as an answer as to if he'll be bringing anymore more scouts or a GM on board)
"We are not in the business of making other teams better" (Given as a reason why he didn't trade away players like AJ Green on the last year of his contract, when the season was lost anyway)

It all just comes off as... ambivalent. apathetic. Ask him if he wants to win the Super Bowl and he'll say, "winning the Super Bowl would be nice." The way a nice glass of lemonade would be nice while dozing off in a rocking chair on the porch.

Maybe Joe Burrow transcends all of that. But that's what everyone is warning him about. And that is darn sure what he was passively referring to in the quote above that some people keep pretending he never said.

[Bob Sheed]

Former long time Bengals player, Solomon Wilcots:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/02/06/solomon-wilcots-joe-burrow-bengals-culture-sucked-life-palmer/4683033002/



As a guest Wednesday on The D.A. Show - the same show former Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer appeared on last week, when Palmer said he didn't think the Bengals were committed to winning the Super Bowl - ex-Bengals defensive back Solomon Wilcots talked to Damon Amendolara about the same subject.

Amendolara asked Wilcots if Burrow should be warned about Cincinnati's culture:

"Absolutely. Absolutely," Wilcots said. "I was 100 percent behind Carson Palmer. And I watched as it sucked the life out of him. I watched fans in Cincinnati dump garbage on his home, on his lawn. I watched how others abdicated and tried to force the leadership onto him when he wasn't given support to corral some of the ... individuals that surrounded him. ... Carson Palmer was a guy who was strong-willed, talented and needed more around him. He needed more support around him. ... He walked away from the game because the love for the game had left him. And that's a shame. And organizations need to be wary of that - that one man, in a bad environment, cannot turn it around by himself. I can just flat out tell you that."

[KoryMac5]

Who cares? We all knew the Bengals were 'good enough' to make the playoffs but they never did anything to make it seem like they were "all in." Correct? We kept finishing 8-8, 9-7ish with draft picks in the late teens and early 20's with NO FREE AGENT SIGNINGS! Did we trade up? Nope. Did we trade off anything of value to get more value on another part of our team? Nope.

We just kept signing losers like Burfict who had 1st round talent but was obviously a head case. In other words, we were just being cheap.

What exactly makes you think we're all in?

2010 4-12
2011 9-7
2012 10-6
2013 11-5
2014 10-5-1
2015 12-4
2016 6-9-1
2017 7-9
2018 6-10
2019 2-14

I for one am glad they got off the treadmill of mediocre and sucked bad enough to be #1 in the draft. I think you will see more teams adopt that strategy this season.

Absolutely FA signings would have been helpful and the Bengals had been involved in free agency until Antonio Bryant burned them with poor medicals. Past data usually shows us the future but I am willing to take a wait and see approach this off season in regards to FA's especially if they have 85 million to work with.

[KoryMac5]

Yes but since 1990, 32 NFL teams have more NFL playoff wins than the Bengals. And since 2010, the year you referenced... 32 teams have as many or more playoff wins than the Bengals. (There are 32 teams in the NFL)



It's not that they are perennial bottom feeders. The socialist nature of the NFL, when coupled with the cap floor rule, AKA "the Mike Brown Rule", it's pretty much impossible to be a perennial bottom feeder in the NFL. But they do have a ceiling. And it isn't the Super Bowl. You can do an internet search as to why, or even search here. No need to rehash any of that.

The Bengals are many things. But they are not:
1.Perennial bottom feeders
2. Cheap with spending to the cap
3. Cheap in paying their players
4. Clueless

Any of that.

What they are, is a franchise that devotes the absolute bare minimum of resources to non-cap related expenditures. Like scouts. An indoor practice facility. Soft toilet paper. Decorations. Honoring their former players. All of it. Bare. Minimum. But it's more than that. Mike Brown is not stupid. What he is, is frugal. But not just with his money, with his time as well. I get the impression that the reason he doesn't work the system in the slightest way, is because he'd really rather not bother.

"We will go to war with what we have." (Given as an answer as to why he doesn't pursue free agents)
"Business as usual." (Given as an answer as to if he'll be bringing anymore more scouts or a GM on board)
"We are not in the business of making other teams better" (Given as a reason why he didn't trade away players like AJ Green on the last year of his contract, when the season was lost anyway)

It all just comes off as... ambivalent. apathetic. Ask him if he wants to win the Super Bowl and he'll say, "winning the Super Bowl would be nice." The way a nice glass of lemonade would be nice while dozing off in a rocking chair on the porch.

Maybe Joe Burrow transcends all of that. But that's what everyone is warning him about. And that is darn sure what he was passively referring to in the quote above that some people keep pretending he never said.

Once again you are wrong and have been proven to be wrong time and time again...The Bengals are 17th in cap spending on average in the NFL that stat has been pointed out to you time and time again and yet you still get it wrong...the issue the Bengals have is they do not like to pay guaranteed money...no team in the NFL has issues with cap spending. It's all about guaranteed dollars.

[Bob Sheed]

Once again you are wrong and have been proven to be wrong time and time again...The Bengals are 17th in cap spending on average in the NFL that stat has been pointed out to you time and time again and yet you still get it wrong...the issue the Bengals have is they do not like to pay guaranteed money...no team in the NFL has issues with cap spending. It's all about guaranteed dollars.

Jesus man, read number 2. Then read your reply.

My goodness. Serenity now.

[KoryMac5]

Jesus man, read number 2. Then read your reply.

My goodness. Serenity now.

32 teams in the league Bob 17th, is below the mean...that does not equal cheap....if you look at the percentages from 2015-2018 the Bengals have spent 100.7% of the unadjusted cap.

The majority of their drafted players...Dunlap, Green, Dalton, Dre, Gio, Palmer, all got nice contracts I would imagine Mixon will be the next to be extended for high dollars...Whit was definitely the one who got away and set the franchise back.

I think I need some serenity as this thread has run it's course for me...I enjoy talking about the Bengals and am a realist in their shortcomings but the constant everything sucks and you all are crazy for not seeing it has pretty much ruined my enjoyment of it.

To point 3 the Bengals have traditionally signed

[Kingspoint]

Former long time Bengals player, Solomon Wilcots:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/02/06/solomon-wilcots-joe-burrow-bengals-culture-sucked-life-palmer/4683033002/

So true, so true. Every time I see a "fan" say something bad about Carson Palmer, I see a lemming.

[Bob Sheed]

32 teams in the league Bob 17th, is below the mean...that does not equal cheap....if you look at the percentages from 2015-2018 the Bengals have spent 100.7% of the unadjusted cap.

The majority of their drafted players...Dunlap, Green, Dalton, Dre, Gio, Palmer, all got nice contracts I would imagine Mixon will be the next to be extended for high dollars...Whit was definitely the one who got away and set the franchise back.

I think I need some serenity as this thread has run it's course for me...I enjoy talking about the Bengals and am a realist in their shortcomings but the constant everything sucks and you all are crazy for not seeing it has pretty much ruined my enjoyment of it.

To point 3 the Bengals have traditionally signed

Non-cap related expenditures are where Mike Brown handicaps his team. I can't be any clearer than that.

[Kingspoint]

Non-cap related expenditures are where Mike Brown handicaps his team. I can't be any clearer than that.

You mean, the people who aren't there that should actually be running the football operations who, by theory, know what they are doing.

[Bob Sheed]

You mean, the people who aren't there that should actually be running the football operations who, by theory, know what they are doing.

Not just people.

Imagine prepping for a December away game that happens to be in a dome, or way down south... outside in the freezing cold/snow.

[North]

Pretty sure you're free to start one, but it's going to be one post saying "draft Joe Burrow" and then a bunch of crickets.

Unless of course the Bengals hire more scouts, build an indoor facility, or participate in meaningful free agency of course.

So yeah, probably crickets there. :lol:

:thumbup: for your new sig line.

[Redhook]

Once again you are wrong and have been proven to be wrong time and time again...The Bengals are 17th in cap spending on average in the NFL that stat has been pointed out to you time and time again and yet you still get it wrong...the issue the Bengals have is they do not like to pay guaranteed money...no team in the NFL has issues with cap spending. It's all about guaranteed dollars.

I think you accidentally overlooked the most important word in Bob’s post:
“The Bengals are many things. But they are NOT:”

[North]

I think you accidentally overlooked the most important word in Bob’s post:
“The Bengals are many things. But they are NOT:”

Happened 2 times.

[Rdirtypirates]

I'd agree. 2010 was more of a "I'm just happy to be here" feeling knowing the Phils were probably going to beat us.

2012 was enjoyable but I never really felt like that team was mentally strong. So I always had the feeling that yeah, we were winning games, but I feel like we're not going to do as much as we think.. . . even up 2-0.

You mean you can actually enjoy something.

[Rdirtypirates]

2010 4-12
2011 9-7
2012 10-6
2013 11-5
2014 10-5-1
2015 12-4
2016 6-9-1
2017 7-9
2018 6-10
2019 2-14

I for one am glad they got off the treadmill of mediocre and sucked bad enough to be #1 in the draft. I think you will see more teams adopt that strategy this season.

Absolutely FA signings would have been helpful and the Bengals had been involved in free agency until Antonio Bryant burned them with poor medicals. Past data usually shows us the future but I am willing to take a wait and see approach this off season in regards to FA's especially if they have 85 million to work with.

I am not fan of this strategy at all. Look at the Dolphins. They did everything possible to get the number 1 pick, and they weren't even close. With so much parity in football, you should never have this line of thinking. Just a wasted season for something that may never happen.

[GAC]

Also, the fact you don't hate Mike Brown says a lot about you.

I guess it's how far one lets that level of hate take them, in what direction? The only thing I really HATE are peas ... and Flo (Geico) is a close second.

Things that are out of my control, I have no say in - other then the choice to not participate - I've never allowed to emotionally tie me up in knots where I have such an intense loathing of another person. I certainly agree it's a temptation that is hard to fight nowadays looking at the climate we live in.

But if I can survive almost 15 years of the most worst, inept, owner in Randy Lerner ... another kid who inherited the team from his Dad's passing, had no interest in football whatsoever (soccer) and didn't know who to hire, and is a terrible businessman ... then you'll survive Mike Brown. Unless he somehow forces you to jump off of Cincy's blue bridge before his time (LOL).

I understand the scars that Mike Brown inflicted on the fanbase. They run deep with many.

How about looking at yourself as a SURVIVOR of the Mike Brown era now that it looks like there is a changing of the guard going on? That's right Mike! I beat you! Make the effort to put all this **** behind you .... and simply give it a chance. Even if it ends up being one last chance.

I actually want to see what Zac Taylor can do. Is he the man?

Just don't get caught up in all the hype that will likely occur, like what happened in Cleveland with a lot of passionate, yet idiotic, fans screaming "We're going to the Super Bowl" just because they went from 0-16 to 7-8-1 LOL

It's all about direction (building).

[Todd Gack]

I guess it's how far one lets that level of hate take them, in what direction? The only thing I really HATE are peas ... and Flo (Geico) is a close second.

Things that are out of my control, I have no say in - other then the choice to not participate - I've never allowed to emotionally tie me up in knots where I have such an intense loathing of another person. I certainly agree it's a temptation that is hard to fight nowadays looking at the climate we live in.

But if I can survive almost 15 years of the most worst, inept, owner in Randy Lerner ... another kid who inherited the team from his Dad's passing, had no interest in football whatsoever (soccer) and didn't know who to hire, and is a terrible businessman ... then you'll survive Mike Brown. Unless he somehow forces you to jump off of Cincy's blue bridge before his time (LOL).

I understand the scars that Mike Brown inflicted on the fanbase. They run deep with many.

How about looking at yourself as a SURVIVOR of the Mike Brown era now that it looks like there is a changing of the guard going on? That's right Mike! I beat you! Make the effort to put all this **** behind you .... and simply give it a chance. Even if it ends up being one last chance.

I actually want to see what Zac Taylor can do. Is he the man?

Just don't get caught up in all the hype that will likely occur, like what happened in Cleveland with a lot of passionate, yet idiotic, fans screaming "We're going to the Super Bowl" just because they went from 0-16 to 7-8-1 LOL

It's all about direction (building).

GAC, I appreciate your view on many things here including this post. I was a teenager in the late '90's when most of us develop deep ties to our favorite teams. I don't even remember the Bengals winning their last playoff game. The draft debacles hit hard. When we were finally winning when Marvin got here, I was ecstatic. I thought things might change but they didn't. I noticed soon after, probably about the same time as Carson that things really hadn't changed. The way the NFL was structured made it easier for parity. I've become a very disgruntled fan ever since. I see younger fans growing up without any of this context who think things are really going to change, but as you said, maybe I should still hope? I doubt it, but if we do happen to commit to winning then I'll gladly accept the change and admit my wrongs.

[Bob Sheed]

So Marvin Lewis is coaching Chad Johnson's son at Arizona State.

[GAC]

GAC, I appreciate your view on many things here including this post. I was a teenager in the late '90's when most of us develop deep ties to our favorite teams. I don't even remember the Bengals winning their last playoff game. The draft debacles hit hard. When we were finally winning when Marvin got here, I was ecstatic. I thought things might change but they didn't. I noticed soon after, probably about the same time as Carson that things really hadn't changed. The way the NFL was structured made it easier for parity. I've become a very disgruntled fan ever since. I see younger fans growing up without any of this context who think things are really going to change, but as you said, maybe I should still hope? I doubt it, but if we do happen to commit to winning then I'll gladly accept the change and admit my wrongs.

You were a teenager in the late 90s ... I was a teenager in the late 60s. The only thing I have going for me is a lot more experience in dealing with Ohia teams (LOL).

Your passion came at an age, and during a decade, when the Bengals were at their lowest point of their existence (90s). So on one hand I commend you, after witnessing that, that you still developed a passion for the Bengals. You had your opportunity to kill it right then and there (LOL). But they're your local team, and it only makes sense. And I can certainly see, at your young age, when the Lewis era began, your passion grew stronger, you saw hope. Only to witness what is currently going on.

Think of it this way ..... I've been following the Browns since '65 and the Bengals since '68. Combined that's over 100 years of experience! And how many Super Bowls have I seen from either of these teams? Two. Both by the Bengals (80s) . So I was a fan for 20 years before I saw a Ohia team make it to a Super Bowl. But in that span I saw (enjoyed) some great players and teams. I loved the AFC Central (70s). Those teams were competitive, had their moments, but always found ways to fall short (Browns or Bengals). But still great memories.

When you live in Ohia, it's all about hoping for another one of those "moments" when they somehow magically put it all together for a brief span (run). That's the only thing one can hope for. It's what led to so much excitement (some misguided IMO) with the Browns last years. Are they beginning to enter their "moment"? Are the Bengals doing likewise with the hiring of Taylor, and the drafting of Burrow and others?

The game has become far more complex, complicated. Building a dynasty is a much harder thing to do, yet not impossible. But the moon and stars seem to have to be aligned just right for a majority. A player like Burrow could be that next Montana, Elway, or Brady. ... IF they surround him with the supporting cast.

JMO, but the 2-14 Bengals were not as terrible as the record indicates. But the record always stands out. I look at other things to see what were the main cuplrit(s) contributing to the losses that are correctable. And there were a few games this last season the Bengals could have/should have won (Seattle for one).

IMO, injuries to very key players (critical positions) hurt this team more then anything. Missing those players made it harder on those starters on the field. Getting people healthy (keeping them that way), and a solid draft beginning with Burrow, addressing OL FIRST then LBer position, will go a long way to improving the direction of this team in '20.

Give it a chance. It'll only cost you your soul! LOL

[Sea Ray]

Here's a really good article from Paul Daugherty at the Enquirer about Bengal bashing:

It must be cathartic for Carson Palmer. Apparently, his eight years as a Cincinnati Bengals player were a living hell. If hell can be defined as a place where a person can earn close to $85 million throwing a football. That’s what the Bengals paid him. One can only imagine the pain in that.

Palmer gets on sports radio from his bucolic Idaho home and spews about how bad the Bengals were and are. He says the Bengals aren’t in the business of winning Super Bowls. Unlike, of course, the other two organizations for which Palmer played, the Oakland Raiders and the Arizona Cardinals. Who, since 1984, have as many Super Bowl rings as you do.

Palmer advises Joe Burrow to ponder his priorities. Being the top pick overall isn’t as important as being with a winning organization, says Palmer, who worked for Bill Bidwill and Mark Davis.

Bidwill was a cheapskate whose teams never won anything. In 58 years of at least co-owning the Cardinals, before his death in October 2019, his team made the playoffs eight times. In his 30 years owning the team in Arizona, the Cardinals made the postseason five times.



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2020/02/07/paul-daugherty-bashing-cincinnati-ohio-bengals-easy-carson-palmer-mike-florio-if-they-ignore-facts/4690585002/

[North]

Here's a really good article from Paul Daugherty at the Enquirer about Bengal bashing:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/2020/02/07/paul-daugherty-bashing-cincinnati-ohio-bengals-easy-carson-palmer-mike-florio-if-they-ignore-facts/4690585002/

The Bengals bash me every time I buy goods and services in Hamilton County. :p

[Bob Sheed]

Doc of all people, should know better.

[GAC]

Doc of all people, should know better.

Concerning what though Bob? While I may have "issues" with stiff-necked, cheapskate owners - I have just as much problem, even less sympathy, with whiny-ass millionaire athletes. Especially a two-faced one.

It's not the fact that some of the stuff concerning the Bengals isn't true. It simply comes off as sour grapes by a bitter ex-player trying to find some way to lash out at his former employer. And what an opportune time too, to come out and start opening up, with the help of the media ... when the Bengals are poised to possibly be making the most important draft pick (decision) to come around for quite some time. Quite opportunistic, right after the NC game and then Super Bowl with all the media hype, if you ask me. What better way (basically) to "stab them in the heart" by trying to publicly dissuade this kid to think twice if drafted by the Bengals.

I've read a couple articles (op-eds) recently where Palmer is portrayed as a victim now sitting out on his Idaho ranch a somewhat "broken" man who gave his all to the game, but somehow football screwed him over, sapped all his strength.

You made approximately $175M (not counting perks and endorsements) in your 15 years of experiencing a "living hell" in Cincy, Oakland, and Arizona. Shaddup!


“That’s why I wanted out: I never felt like the (Bengals') organization was really trying to win a Super Bowl, and really chasing the Super Bowl,” https://twitter.com/DAonCBS/status/1222570699258322947

Why'd you sign a contract EXTENSION, prior to going into the '06 season, that extended you thru 2014, basically committing yourself career-wise to the Benglas while saying this? .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_Palmer


Carson signed a six-year contract extension through the 2014 season with the Bengals on December 29, 2005. In addition to the three years remaining on his existing deal, the value of the extension was worth $118.75 million over nine years. "Hopefully this is the last place I'll end up playing," Palmer said. "That's so rare in this league these days. It's so rare to see a person have a 5-, 8-, 10-, 12-year career in one place. And I feel very fortunate that it looks like that's going to be my future.

Felt fortunate ... Hopefully this is the last place I'll end up playing. And he went on to productive years, injury marred to a degree, and two play-off appearances with the Bengals. Then the disastrous '10 season occurs and he's demanding a trade or threatening to retire.... "I will never set foot in Paul Brown Stadium again. I have $80 million in the bank."

Sorry. Agreed with Mikey on this one.

I'm just not sure Carson understands, or is a good judge, of what "committed to winning a Super Bowl" is (lol). Because he spent the other half of his career with two teams, and made only one play-off appearance (2015).

Meanwhile, the Bengals made out in the trade to Oakland (got Hue fired later though). But more importantly, a young Andy Dalton immediately steps in .... and the Bengals made five consecutive post-season appearances. Looks like Carson was holding them back! JMO - bet it sticks in Carson's craw.

[Bob Sheed]

That's some pretty good revisionist history, GAC, I'll give you that. :lol:

The Bengals stumbled backwards into the playoff 4 times, and imploded in the last one. All resulting in zero playoff wins, I might add. And, except for the last one where they blew up at the end, they looked and were outclassed and outmatched in every other playoff game. I watched them all. None were ever really even close, not counting prevent defense padding at the end.

Look... Carson really does come off as sour grapes. That's too bad for him. But anyone standing on the pedestal of "Mike Brown is committed to winning a Super Bowl" is either ignorant of the Bengals Front Office and Non-Cap Related Expenditures (or lack-thereof), or they are selling something.

Carson Palmer is a grumpy old ex NFL player, dealing with regret.
Mike Brown is not committed to winning a Super Bowl and is just spending the bare minimum while the franchise appreciates in value.

Both of these statements are true.

And before anyone chimes in and says "Hey, he spends to the cap every year", EVERYONE spends to the cap. Because of the Mike Brown Rule! lol

[Todd Gack]

And before anyone chimes in and says "Hey, he spends to the cap every year", EVERYONE spends to the cap. Because of the Mike Brown Rule! lol


This post was great. And then the best part was the last sentence because it's so true. It's possible that Carson Palmer is bitter, but right.

I just don't get why many of the local sportswriters are leading the feeling of being indignant at the national media pushing the "Does Burrow want to play for the Bengals" mantra. Yeah, there are other organizations who are terrible, but these are very valid questions.

[North]

I just don't get why many of the local sportswriters are leading the feeling of being indignant at the national media pushing the "Does Burrow want to play for the Bengals" mantra. Yeah, there are other organizations who are terrible, but these are very valid questions.

They don't want their press credentials revoked?

[Bob Sheed]

They don't want their press credentials revoked?

Ding ding

[GAC]

That's some pretty good revisionist history, GAC, I'll give you that. :lol:

The Bengals stumbled backwards into the playoff 4 times, and imploded in the last one. All resulting in zero playoff wins, I might add. And, except for the last one where they blew up at the end, they looked and were outclassed and outmatched in every other playoff game. I watched them all. None were ever really even close, not counting prevent defense padding at the end.

What's revisionist about it? They made the post-season five consecutive times after Carson's exit. The fact that they lost, and the manner in which they did so, IMO, is not a reflection as much on Mike Brown as it is the players and coaches on the field who lost the game(s). Just my take. Yeah ... some of those players, including the starting QB, who were on the playing field, the ones who lost, choked, looked bad doing so, whatever, are now saying the reason why THEY LOST the games was because Mike Brown is not committed to winning.

ex-Bengal Solomon Wilcots has weighed in and said he's 100% behind Palmer and his comments. Really? You played four seasons with the Bengals (87-90) and made it to the SB with them.

Don't take that as a defense of Brown so much as I find it funny that the players who got them there, yet "choked" it in the first round, are putting the finger of blame for their failure on Mike Brown. LOL

And I disagree that they "stumbled backwards" into those post-season appearances. They won the North in '13 (11-5) and in '15 (12-4). In '11 they qualified with a 9-7 record. Want to call that eeking in fine. But in '12 and '14 they had records of 10-6 and 10-5-1. It's a tough division with Pitt and Baltimore, yet the Bengals did hold their own. Just couldn't get out of the first round. IMO, teams that make the post-season are trying to advance win the SB.


Look... Carson really does come off as sour grapes. That's too bad for him. But anyone standing on the pedestal of "Mike Brown is committed to winning a Super Bowl" is either ignorant of the Bengals Front Office and Non-Cap Related Expenditures (or lack-thereof), or they are selling something.

I'm not standing on Mike Brown's pedestal ... I'm knocking Palmer off of his (LOL). I simply think it's wrong, based solely out of bitterness and hatred, in what he's trying to do. It's not beneficial to anyone and comes off, IMO, as self-serving.

I certainly understand where Mike Brown haters are coming from. But I almost get the impression they don't want the Bengals to turn the corner, improve - which would include drafting Burrow - because they want this organization, and the culture, to stay the way it is so they can have something to rag on from now to eternity.

I'm trying to look forward not backward. Optimistic, whatever.

[Redhook]

I certainly understand where Mike Brown haters are coming from. But I almost get the impression they don't want the Bengals to turn the corner, improve - which would include drafting Burrow - because they want this organization, and the culture, to stay the way it is so they can have something to rag on from now to eternity.

I'm trying to look forward not backward. Optimistic, whatever.

I admit that I am Mike Brown hater. That said, the comment above couldn’t be further from the truth. It is a Cincinnati thing to play the “woe is me” card (At times, it is hard to believe the endless list of bad luck the fans have gone through), but I don’t know a single Bengal fan that wants them to continue to fail. Any true Bengal fan wants them to turn the corner, put some effort in, and win more on the field. It’s really not that much to ask for. But, until MB is gone, I and many others will continue to complain about him.

[Bob Sheed]

Change of topic but does ANYBODY know what happened with the whole Bengals / Patriots Spygate Part II thing?

[North]

Coulple of new Bengals coaches:


Bengals announce hiring of Colt Anderson and Troy Walters
“Both guys are excellent additions to our receiver and special teams units, and they will be able to use the traits that made them great players in this league to help our players now.”
By Jason Marcum@marcum89 Feb 10, 2020, 5:54pm EST


https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/10/21132245/bengals-news-colt-anderson-troy-walters

[Spanky]

Change of topic but does ANYBODY know what happened with the whole Bengals / Patriots Spygate Part II thing?

probably just going to be swept under the rug.

[GAC]

I admit that I am Mike Brown hater. That said, the comment above couldn’t be further from the truth. It is a Cincinnati thing to play the “woe is me” card (At times, it is hard to believe the endless list of bad luck the fans have gone through), but I don’t know a single Bengal fan that wants them to continue to fail. Any true Bengal fan wants them to turn the corner, put some effort in, and win more on the field. It’s really not that much to ask for. But, until MB is gone, I and many others will continue to complain about him.

And I agree RH, for the most part. It is an "impression" I was getting just from this particular discussion on Palmer's comments, Burrow, and the Browns. Not an overall assessment. Why?

You got an ex-Bengal QB who, IMO, timed this "revelation" out just perfectly as far as PR momentum. I listened to an interview with Palmer (still trying to find it - NBC Sports?) where he was asked about the timing of his comments during the hype of Super Bowl week? His response was that he's been holding it in for years, and was waiting for the "right moment" to tell-all.

And for what purpose were you waiting for that "right moment" I ask myself in the back of my mind? Especially if it's been "eating at you" for so long.

As I stated. I have huge sympathies for Mike Brown haters. Who isn't one? LOL

My point? You're still a Bengal fan right? You still believe, hold out some level of hope - even in this futility - this team can/will turn it around right? Two "demands" have been met concerning Lewis and Dalton. They're gone.

You hire a new rookie head coach in Zac Taylor. And MB wasn't involved in that decision/hiring. That was Katie & Co.

But you're now in the position with the #1 pick to take a young QB that it's possible doesn't come around that often. All I know is that a lot of teams covet the Bengal's position and want it. That says something.

It's not the point that one agrees with what Palmer is saying. It's what he's trying to achieve, what his objective is (IMO) .... to hurt the Bengals DEEPLY by influencing this kid to think twice, even refuse, to sign with this terrible organization.

If you're a Bengal fan, regardless of what your feelings are of Mike Brown, how can you agree, go along, with what Carson is trying to accomplish? Keep your team from improving itself.

I have no issues with someone who says "Yeah Carson! I agree with you. But shut the **** up because you're not helping matters, nor this team trying to move forward. You seem to have some sort of vendetta to insure it doesn't.

And IMO, every Bengals fan should be opposing Carson. Not for his comments. But what he trying to achieve with them.

Hurt your team!

[GAC]

Change of topic but does ANYBODY know what happened with the whole Bengals / Patriots Spygate Part II thing?

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would spy on the '19 Bengals? On how not to do it? LOL

[North]

I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would spy on the '19 Bengals? On how not to do it? LOL

Good one! Touche! :D

[Redhook]

And I agree RH, for the most part. It is an "impression" I was getting just from this particular discussion on Palmer's comments, Burrow, and the Browns. Not an overall assessment. Why?

You got an ex-Bengal QB who, IMO, timed this "revelation" out just perfectly as far as PR momentum. I listened to an interview with Palmer (still trying to find it - NBC Sports?) where he was asked about the timing of his comments during the hype of Super Bowl week? His response was that he's been holding it in for years, and was waiting for the "right moment" to tell-all.

And for what purpose were you waiting for that "right moment" I ask myself in the back of my mind? Especially if it's been "eating at you" for so long.

As I stated. I have huge sympathies for Mike Brown haters. Who isn't one? LOL

My point? You're still a Bengal fan right? You still believe, hold out some level of hope - even in this futility - this team can/will turn it around right? Two "demands" have been met concerning Lewis and Dalton. They're gone.

You hire a new rookie head coach in Zac Taylor. And MB wasn't involved in that decision/hiring. That was Katie & Co.

But you're now in the position with the #1 pick to take a young QB that it's possible doesn't come around that often. All I know is that a lot of teams covet the Bengal's position and want it. That says something.

It's not the point that one agrees with what Palmer is saying. It's what he's trying to achieve, what his objective is (IMO) .... to hurt the Bengals DEEPLY by influencing this kid to think twice, even refuse, to sign with this terrible organization.

If you're a Bengal fan, regardless of what your feelings are of Mike Brown, how can you agree, go along, with what Carson is trying to accomplish? Keep your team from improving itself.

I have no issues with someone who says "Yeah Carson! I agree with you. But shut the **** up because you're not helping matters, nor this team trying to move forward. You seem to have some sort of vendetta to insure it doesn't.

And IMO, every Bengals fan should be opposing Carson. Not for his comments. But what he trying to achieve with them.

Hurt your team!

I hear you hummin’. And, I understand what Carson is doing and why many don’t like him.

I’m of a different opinion though, similar to Bob Sheed. For the Bengals to be better long-term, drastic changes have to be made. These changes won’t happen unless they’re forced to make them, most likely from the NFL. Hence, the reason why I love seeing anything negatively commented about Brown, their history of jock straps, the inside of the stadium, practice facilities, lowest number of scouts, etc. I just hope the NFL steps in again, ala the cap floor, and forces the Bengals to do more. They’re an embarrassment to the league. A laughingstock. The Bengals attendance numbers cost the other owners money. It has to upset them. Maybe, just maybe, if enough negativity comes out of the trenches, more rules will be set in place for the bottom feeders of the NFL. That’s the hope I'm banking on because Burrow alone can’t change it.

[Redsfaithful]

The league is not going to step in and do anything about the Bengals when they aren't even close to the most embarrassingly run team in the NFL. The Browns are worse, the Dolphins have been awful, the Jaguars went to a conference championship recently and are still more of a trainwreck, the Redskins are worse. I'm not going to go all the way down the list, but it's a ridiculous thing to hope for.

[Todd Gack]

The league is not going to step in and do anything about the Bengals when they aren't even close to the most embarrassingly run team in the NFL. The Browns are worse, the Dolphins have been awful, the Jaguars went to a conference championship recently and are still more of a trainwreck, the Redskins are worse. I'm not going to go all the way down the list, but it's a ridiculous thing to hope for.

Uhhh, what makes the Bengals the worst franchise is that we've had first round draft picks buy towels for the rest of the team because we're too cheap to buy it for them. Tony Siragusa flew COACH on a free agent trip. Talk about playoff appearances all you want, but it's almost an accident that we were embarrassed for 5 straight years in the playoffs. In fact, we would've been better off losing like the Browns. We haven't done anything more than they want. Well, I guess unless you want to count going to the s tore to buy your AFC North Championship t-shirt.

[Redsfaithful]

Uhhh, what makes the Bengals the worst franchise is that we've had first round draft picks buy towels for the rest of the team because we're too cheap to buy it for them. Tony Siragusa flew COACH on a free agent trip. Talk about playoff appearances all you want, but it's almost an accident that we were embarrassed for 5 straight years in the playoffs. In fact, we would've been better off losing like the Browns. We haven't done anything more than they want. Well, I guess unless you want to count going to the s tore to buy your AFC North Championship t-shirt.

lol right, the NFL is going to punish the Bengals for things that happened decades ago

Do you guys listen to yourselves?

[Bob Sheed]

lol right, the NFL is going to punish the Bengals for things that happened decades ago

Do you guys listen to yourselves?

Of course you're right.

The area that Mike Brown really handicaps his own franchise is with non-cap related expenditures, and I don't know how the NFL could possibly mandate that.

Scouts
Indoor Facility
Proper Coaches
An Engaged Front Office
An environment conducive to winning

Even the scratchy toilet paper.

It all adds up to 30+ years without a playoff win, and absolutely nothing has changed, unless change has been forced upon him.

And I agree, no way they can force him to change anything listed above.

Which, I might add, is what guys like Carson Palmer are warning Joe Burrow about.


The analogy I always think of, is this:

What if you found a box that just printed money, no matter what you did. With one stipulation: You have to deposit at least 200 dollars into the box each year.

So how much would you deposit into the box each year?

Depends on who you are. If you already have other boxes that print money, and if this box had the potential to provide you with more entertainment, the more money you put into it, then you might put quite a bit more than 200 dollars into that box.

But if that box is all you have, and you don't care about the entertainment that the box could potentially provide, then yeah, you're not putting a penny more than 200 dollars into that box. Because there is absolutely zero incentive to do so.

The above analogy is Mike Brown 101, right there. And it's why the Bengals will continue to be at a disadvantage compared to just about every other NFL team.

Which, AGAIN, I might add, is what guys like Carson Palmer are warning Joe Burrow about.

[Todd Gack]

lol right, the NFL is going to punish the Bengals for things that happened decades ago

Do you guys listen to yourselves?

It's one thing to be very cheap. It's another to be completely incompetent. It's Bengaldom to be both. None of those other teams are like the Bengals. None.


Go run with that argument and complain to everyone in the national media who wonders if the Bengals are serious about winning.

[Redsfaithful]

None of those other teams are like the Bengals. None.


Yeah, some of those teams wish they were as successful as the Bengals have been this century.

The Browns won like 35 games in the 2010s lol

That's actually hard to do, and think about that as a fan, sprinkling those wins over a 10 year period. So fun! Better towels would have fixed it I bet.

[Todd Gack]

Yeah, some of those teams wish they were as successful as the Bengals have been this century.

The Browns won like 35 games in the 2010s lol

That's actually hard to do, and think about that as a fan, sprinkling those wins over a 10 year period. So fun! Better towels would have fixed it I bet.

Mike Brown has been laughing at Bengals fans like you for 3 decades. He's done the bare minimum and still won more than the Browns and yet, that is somehow supposed to make me feel better? Think about what if Mike Brown had an oz of competence or integrity to actually try and win by opening his check book. I honestly can't believe we actually have Bengals fans like you and on Twitter saying "Hey man, the Browns are worse than us!"

Congrats to us fans for winning more regular season games than the Browns.

[Bob Sheed]

Yeah, some of those teams wish they were as successful as the Bengals have been this century.

The Browns won like 35 games in the 2010s lol

That's actually hard to do, and think about that as a fan, sprinkling those wins over a 10 year period. So fun! Better towels would have fixed it I bet.

I knew when I typed it, you'd focus on the towels.

[Bob Sheed]

Mike Brown has been laughing at Bengals fans like you for 3 decades. He's done the bare minimum and still won more than the Browns and yet, that is somehow supposed to make me feel better? Think about what if Mike Brown had an oz of competence or integrity to actually try and win by opening his check book. I honestly can't believe we actually have Bengals fans like you and on Twitter saying "Hey man, the Browns are worse than us!"

Congrats to us fans for winning more regular season games than the Browns.

"We're number 31!!! Not 32!!!! Yaaaaaayyyyy!!!!111"

[Redhook]

lol right, the NFL is going to punish the Bengals for things that happened decades ago

No, they’re not. Obviously. The one area where there’s a chance for change is the pitiful Bengals attendance numbers. That’s revenue lost for the owners. If they continue to be last in the league and way below everyone else, I wonder if the league would step in and give a little kick in the behind.

[Bob Sheed]

No, they’re not. Obviously. The one area where there’s a chance for change is the pitiful Bengals attendance numbers. That’s revenue lost for the owners. If they continue to be last in the league and way below everyone else, I wonder if the league would step in and give a little kick in the behind.

Not a chance. And the league wouldn't need to do anything. The Bengals would leave town. 2026.

[GAC]

I hear you hummin’. And, I understand what Carson is doing and why many don’t like him.

I’m of a different opinion though, similar to Bob Sheed. For the Bengals to be better long-term, drastic changes have to be made. These changes won’t happen unless they’re forced to make them, most likely from the NFL.

But what should those "changes" be? Is Mike Brown's approach - his cheapness and "all business-like manner" that is the source of fan's frustration/anger - in violation of NFL policy where the NFL needs to intervene? And do what?

I'm not very knowledgeable on salary cap regulations, etc. But the NFL set the guidelines/framework by which all the teams must operate, and yes, even play the game. Is it the fact the Bengals aren't spending that cap space, being tight-fisted, the reason?

It looks like Mike Brown has been stepping back for the last couple of years, passing it on to his progeny. Taylor was Katie's pick, and they gave Taylor complete control over the draft. All I've said is there appears to be a "changing of the guard", and lets see what happens? This upcoming draft is not only important because of the quality of player(s) available that could greatly improve the team's direction; but it will possible give another sign that this "new" ownership is giving their HC (and staff) more control and say.


Hence, the reason why I love seeing anything negatively commented about Brown, their history of jock straps, the inside of the stadium, practice facilities, lowest number of scouts, etc.

Even to the detriment that it costs your team a shot at possibly one of the best QB prospects to come around in awhile, who can turn this team's fortunes in the right direction, just so one can say "Take that Mike Brown!!"?


They’re an embarrassment to the league. A laughingstock. The Bengals attendance numbers cost the other owners money. It has to upset them. Maybe, just maybe, if enough negativity comes out of the trenches, more rules will be set in place for the bottom feeders of the NFL. That’s the hope I'm banking on because Burrow alone can’t change it.

I'm sorry. But there is no way I'm letting you steal that title, that crown, from my beloved Browns. Nobody has worked harder, put their best foot forward, at being the league's laughingstock or embarrassment longer (LMAO)

In the last decade, how many post-season appearances have the Bengals made? Seven? It doesn't matter that you lost every game. You qualified for the post-season, and did so with some good teams who put up some good records, won some division titles (and in a tough division).

Have you had an 0-16 season yet? Brown fans are coming up on the 20th anniversary of their only post-season appearance - went 9-7 and a first round exit to the Steelers.

I'm not making light of the Bengal's situation, and attitude toward's it's owner. Fully justified. But who has really had the worst owner? And the thing is - the Browns have spent big time, yet still look where they're at?

I understand the hatred. Just don't let that hatred drive one to the point where you're siding with someone who wants to damage your team and hinder any future or change in direction by (basically) telling the top draft pick - Don't Go There!

[Redsfaithful]

Mike Brown has been laughing at Bengals fans like you for 3 decades. He's done the bare minimum and still won more than the Browns and yet, that is somehow supposed to make me feel better? Think about what if Mike Brown had an oz of competence or integrity to actually try and win by opening his check book. I honestly can't believe we actually have Bengals fans like you and on Twitter saying "Hey man, the Browns are worse than us!"

Congrats to us fans for winning more regular season games than the Browns.

I think Mike Brown is one of the worst owners in all of sports.

You're just setting up and knocking down strawmen here, I'm not gloating that the Bengals have been better than the Browns, I'm pointing out the Bengals just had a better decade than half the NFL so pinning hopes on the NFL stepping in to make changes is ridiculous.

[Redhook]

But what should those "changes" be? Is Mike Brown's approach - his cheapness and "all business-like manner" that is the source of fan's frustration/anger - in violation of NFL policy where the NFL needs to intervene? And do what?

I'm not very knowledgeable on salary cap regulations, etc. But the NFL set the guidelines/framework by which all the teams must operate, and yes, even play the game. Is it the fact the Bengals aren't spending that cap space, being tight-fisted, the reason?

It looks like Mike Brown has been stepping back for the last couple of years, passing it on to his progeny. Taylor was Katie's pick, and they gave Taylor complete control over the draft. All I've said is there appears to be a "changing of the guard", and lets see what happens? This upcoming draft is not only important because of the quality of player(s) available that could greatly improve the team's direction; but it will possible give another sign that this "new" ownership is giving their HC (and staff) more control and say.



Even to the detriment that it costs your team a shot at possibly one of the best QB prospects to come around in awhile, who can turn this team's fortunes in the right direction, just so one can say "Take that Mike Brown!!"?



I'm sorry. But there is no way I'm letting you steal that title, that crown, from my beloved Browns. Nobody has worked harder, put their best foot forward, at being the league's laughingstock or embarrassment longer (LMAO)

In the last decade, how many post-season appearances have the Bengals made? Seven? It doesn't matter that you lost every game. You qualified for the post-season, and did so with some good teams who put up some good records, won some division titles (and in a tough division).

Have you had an 0-16 season yet? Brown fans are coming up on the 20th anniversary of their only post-season appearance - went 9-7 and a first round exit to the Steelers.

I'm not making light of the Bengal's situation, and attitude toward's it's owner. Fully justified. But who has really had the worst owner? And the thing is - the Browns have spent big time, yet still look where they're at?

I understand the hatred. Just don't let that hatred drive one to the point where you're siding with someone who wants to damage your team and hinder any future or change in direction by (basically) telling the top draft pick - Don't Go There!



Boy, we really got the shortest straws as Ohio fans. It's incredible how bad the two teams have been over the last 30 years. The Bengals of the 90's have scarred me for life. Currently, it feels like the 90's again.

As far as what the NFL could do. It's very very very unlikely they'd do anything unless it gets back to the 90's ineptitude. What could they do? Raise the cap floor, raise the number of scouts a team must have, require a GM that's not an owner, limit the amount of revenue sharing for bottom feeders, penalize teams that don't sell out......I'm just spit-balling stuff. And, it all boils down to money. But, it's clear the Bengals don't try and they're hurting the NFL brand and overall revenue.

Regarding Mike Brown's successors. It's terrifying. They learned directly from him, not his father who at least had a clue about football. Just thinking about how ignorant they must be compared to the rest of the NFL gives me shivers. Maybe, just maybe, they'll realize they need a lot more outside help once he's gone because there isn't a snowballs chance hell they'll be successful without it.

Here's something to ponder. If the Browns had the first pick this year, would past players and the media being do what they're doing to the Bengals right now? I bet not. And the reason is Mike Brown. Even with the brief success the Bengals had with their playoff run, they're still a joke nationwide because of one man. We can go back and forth about who's had the worst owners. Maybe it's a tie, but IMO, Brown is the worst of all time. At least the Cleveland Browns, at times, act like they're trying. They're not smart about what they're doing, but showing a little effort helps. Mike Brown gives no effort and couldn't care less about winning or the fans. Cincinnati fans don't ask more much. Just try. Mike Brown is the anti-Pete Rose, the player.

[Redsfaithful]

Maybe it's better this way, at least we have an explanation. It has to be maddening being a Browns fan, because there's just no reason they shouldn't be an average NFL team.

[Todd Gack]

I knew when I typed it, you'd focus on the towels.

For the record, Ki-Jana and Willie Anderson also bought jock straps too.

[Todd Gack]

Can we talk about Zac Taylor's embarrassing letter to fans asking for them to buy season tix?

[Bob Sheed]

Can we talk about Zac Taylor's embarrassing letter to fans asking for them to buy season tix?

I wouldn't say it was embarrassing.

Short-sighted? Maybe. Marvin Lewis never went 2-14. Zac Attack could be referring to the losing culture he himself has created, but I doubt it.

Naive? Absolutely. If Joe Burrow isn't Andrew Luck Part II, then you can mark it down, Zac Taylor will be Dave Shula Part II. I wonder if he knows that. I would honestly be surprised if he even knows who Dave Shula is.

[Todd Gack]

I wouldn't say it was embarrassing.

Short-sighted? Maybe. Marvin Lewis never went 2-14. Zac Attack could be referring to the losing culture he himself has created, but I doubt it.

Naive? Absolutely. If Joe Burrow isn't Andrew Luck Part II, then you can mark it down, Zac Taylor will be Dave Shula Part II. I wonder if he knows that. I would honestly be surprised if he even knows who Dave Shula is.

I can't imagine penning a letter to this fanbase and writing the words "draft capital" and "we have the 1st pick in every round" without laughing.

My biggest issue is that for as much time as he spent talking about the draft in his letter, he uttered zero words about how else to improve the team. So in other words, it seems like status quo.

[GAC]

Regarding Mike Brown's successors. It's terrifying. They learned directly from him, not his father who at least had a clue about football. Just thinking about how ignorant they must be compared to the rest of the NFL gives me shivers. Maybe, just maybe, they'll realize they need a lot more outside help once he's gone because there isn't a snowballs chance hell they'll be successful without it.

How well do you know Katie Blackburn? She has close to 20 years of experience in the NFL, and is considered an expert on the complicated NFL salary cap structure, and seen as an experienced negotiator. The fact that she learned some things from her Dad doesn't mean she's not going to forge her own way with this organization. Again, look at the control she gave Taylor on draft decision-making. Would her Dad have done that? When I look around the NFL front offices, with over half the teams in the league trying to get to .500, there's a lot of "ignorance" to be found. At the end of every season it's musical chairs as front offices clean house.

The Marvin Lewis Era is over ... the Dalton Saga is over ... the Mike Brown Era is rapidly closing .... and the Katie Blackburn, Zac Taylor, and maybe Burrow Era begins. I have no idea how it's going to turn out, but it is change, and I think it simply needs to be given a chance to succeed, see where they go from here. IMO. Every Bengal fan WILL KNOW by this upcoming draft whether they are taking the positive steps forward. It begins, but does not end, with Burrow.

Yet you, and others, don't want to give them that chance - and are siding with a guy (simply because of your shared hatred) who is trying to insure your team doesn't get any better by keeping quality draft picks from coming here. Is convincing Burrow not to come here a good or bad thing for Bengal fans? I think the answer is obvious. So I'm not going to allow my hatred or distrust of the owner to force me into a position of telling any quality draft picks (players) - "Don't come Here!" and pretty much killing any chances for improvement.



Here's something to ponder. If the Browns had the first pick this year, would past players and the media being do what they're doing to the Bengals right now? I bet not

ex-Brown players didn't have to step up and say anything to try and dissuade draft picks from going to Cleveland because the Brown's management took care of it themselves by either passing over that star QB or trade the pick to stockpile them (lol). But to answer your question ... No. While there were many ex-Brown players who publicly complained about the bad culture in Cleveland, and not liking to play there - I never heard ex-Brown players trying to publicly dissuade draft picks from going there. Maybe because it's not the proper behavior for ex-players to be doing?

But Randy Lerner caught hell for his entire tenure from the media and the fan-base that wanted him gone. I was one.

The only reason the media is jumping all over this, making it a "headline", is because of Carson starting his perfectly timed "campaign" of running his mouth during SB week. He started this whole thing. Carson's whole objective is to inflict some level of personal vengeance (revenge) on Mike Brown and the Bengals by convincing Burrow not to go there so he can sit on the front porch of his ranch in Idaho peeling potatoes with a big smile on his face -"Take that Mike Brown!"

If that occurs? Are the Mike Brown haters going to feel good about themselves?

[GAC]

Maybe it's better this way, at least we have an explanation. It has to be maddening being a Browns fan, because there's just no reason they shouldn't be an average NFL team.

I've maintained my composure for 55 years now (LOL).

[GAC]

Short-sighted? Maybe. Marvin Lewis never went 2-14. Zac Attack could be referring to the losing culture he himself has created, but I doubt it.

Your first year (rookie) head coach who inherited a team that was in a huge downward spiral, had many issues needing addressed he didn't create, and injury riddled to boot, CREATED the losing culture???

You owe me a keyboard Bob! LOL

Yeah. If one doesn't turn the Bengals around in their first year on the job they should be fired I guess!

You're not being fair to Taylor at all IMO. Too small of a window.

[Boss-Hog]

GAC, a couple points: Zach Taylor doesn't have control over the draft - that belongs to their defacto GM, Duke Tobin. Tobin and his (small) team appear to have assumed more control following Marvin being brought back in 2011 when Carson was demanding a trade. Taylor undoubtedly has input on the draft, but so has every coach who has ever worked for Mike Brown, and I'd imagine Taylor has less input than Marvin considering the equity Marvin built up with Brown over the years.

Katie was one of the people, if not the primary person, leading the recent coaching search, but I think you're making it sound a bit too much like it was solely her decision. Mike has been increasingly transitioning authority to Katie, Troy, Paul Brown and Tobin to assume his responsibilities for quite some time (long before last offseason), and those four were collectively in charge of the Taylor hire. As his oldest child, Katie is probably the most well known out of the group, but she's definitely not the only one making these decisions. The final decisions still go through Mike, but those four run the team on a day-to-day basis.

[Bob Sheed]

So Mike Brown has been transitioning his GM duties to
Katie, Troy, Paul and Duke.

Tobin has the best resume there.
The rest of them have zero qualifications to be in that role.

Besides the spoils of nepotism anyway.

I look at a guy like John Lynch in SF in comparison. Or Decosta in Baltimore.

And then the results of all three make perfect sense.

[Boss-Hog]

So Mike Brown has been transitioning his GM duties to
Katie, Troy, Paul and Duke.

Tobin has the best resume there.
The rest of them have zero qualifications to be in that role.

Besides the spoils of nepotism anyway.

I look at a guy like John Lynch in SF in comparison. Or Decosta in Baltimore.

And then the results of all three make perfect sense.In terms of the transition, I was referring to ownership of the team as a whole - not specifically the general manager. I think Tobin and his staff make most of the personnel decisions with Mike and Paul Brown also involved, but I don't think Katie and Troy are overly involved with those decisions. I've heard numerous times that Katie manages the cap, and they're both involved with contract negotiations, but I don't think Katie and Troy are deciding who the Bengals draft. Their focus seems to be on ownership matters not related to personnel, which is why the team sends Duke Tobin to be the team's spokesperson for anything related to personnel.

[Spanky]

In terms of the transition, I was referring to ownership of the team as a whole - not specifically the general manager. I think Tobin and his staff make most of the personnel decisions with Mike and Paul Brown also involved, but I don't think Katie and Troy are overly involved with those decisions. I've heard numerous times that Katie manages the cap, and they're both involved with contract negotiations, but I don't think Katie and Troy are deciding who the Bengals draft. Their focus seems to be on ownership matters not related to personnel, which is why the team sends Duke Tobin to be the team's spokesperson for anything related to personnel.

They just recently started letting Duke do more of the national stuff (like within the past couple of seasons.) usually it was just the head coach IIRC

[GAC]

GAC, a couple points: Zach Taylor doesn't have control over the draft - that belongs to their defacto GM, Duke Tobin. Tobin and his (small) team appear to have assumed more control following Marvin being brought back in 2011 when Carson was demanding a trade. Taylor undoubtedly has input on the draft, but so has every coach who has ever worked for Mike Brown, and I'd imagine Taylor has less input than Marvin considering the equity Marvin built up with Brown over the years.

Katie was one of the people, if not the primary person, leading the recent coaching search, but I think you're making it sound a bit too much like it was solely her decision. Mike has been increasingly transitioning authority to Katie, Troy, Paul Brown and Tobin to assume his responsibilities for quite some time (long before last offseason), and those four were collectively in charge of the Taylor hire. As his oldest child, Katie is probably the most well known out of the group, but she's definitely not the only one making these decisions. The final decisions still go through Mike, but those four run the team on a day-to-day basis.

You very well could be right on the draft decision, but I thought I read last year (draft time) that Taylor (and coaching staff) were controlling the draft. My oversight on Tobin. Easily forgettable person (lol). And I realize it's been a three-way "tandem" in the decision-making with Kathie, Troy, and Paul; but that Katie, as Executive VP, was carrying more "authority" as Mike was stepping away from the decision-making .....

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2019/1/25/18194394/katie-blackburn-is-one-of-the-forces-who-will-shape-the-future-of-the-nfl


While it isn’t Katie Blackburn by herself, she has clearly emerged as the apparent heir to the Bengals throne ahead of her brother Paul Brown. It appears that how Taylor fairs as a head coach will be the first judgement of how well Blackburn will fair as the lead decision maker.


bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/07/25/mike-brown-explains-transition-power-within-bengals-front-office/


That administrative team, led by Brown’s daughter Katie, led the charge in hiring Zac Taylor away from the Los Angeles Rams after the Super Bowl.

My whole point is simply this Boss ..... I certainly understand every Bengal fan's intense hatred for Mike Brown. It's fine if they agree with what Carson says. But don't SIDE with the guy to the point/degree where he's trying to hurt your organization and hinder it from getting better, going in the right direction by telling quality players to not go there.

Go into this draft, see what they do, and give them a chance.

[GAC]

Tobin has the best resume there.
The rest of them have zero qualifications to be in that role.

Zero qualifications? Hardly.

I don't understand why you put yourself through all this if Mike Brown has caused you such pain and anguish deep in your soul? I'd walk away completely before I'd allow it to take me to these lengths. Ain't worth it. LOL

[Todd Gack]

Joe Goodberry had a series of Tweets talking about the Bengals in Free Agency that I found amusing. https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1228733385603985408


Searching for potential Bengals free agent targets but filtering out the players that are expensive and the ones 29 years and older.

A bit sobering, but helps reset expectations.


Guards:
Joe Haeg - Colts
Ereck Flowers - Washington
Wes Schweitzer - Falcons
Quinton Spain - Bills

Linebackers:
Nick Kwiatkowski - Bears
Kevin Pierre-Louis - Bears
David Mayo - Giants
Reggie Ragland - Chiefs



Most of these are tier 2/3 guys.
I think that's where the Bengals are comfortable (closer to tier 3).

BW Webb was a T3 signing last year. I'd say John Miller was T2 given the contract. Kerry Wynn was T4.


Someone then responded with this:

This is partly what Carson means when he says there is no commitment to winning a Super Bowl. When your big moves are tier 3/4 signings, you are committed to filling out a roster with JAGs. Nothing more.

Joe Responded with:
This is exactly what he means

[Bob Sheed]

I agree, but only partially.

People always want to look at cap related data as evidence of Mike Brown's lack of commitment to winning. By doing so, they are missing the mark (mostly).
Brown spends with the best of them, in regard to player salaries. He has to. It's called the "Mike Brown Rule:"


Starting with that season, each team is required to spend a minimum of 88.8% of the cap in cash on player compensation, and 90% in future years. ... The NFL's cap is a hard cap that the teams have to stay under at all times, and the salary floor is also a hard floor.

Personally, I blame lazy journalism for the tired narrative pushed by national media, falsely claiming Mike Brown is a cheapskate in regard to the salary cap, player contracts, etc.

Where Brown can be criticized, in regard to cap money, is where his priorities do lie. Things like loyalty always take precedent over talent. It's how guys like Bobby Hart get a multi-year contract when they should be picking up cigarette butts in the parking lot instead. It's how Hue Jackson gets brought back to Cincinnati after his body of work in Cleveland. It's how Marvin Lewis kept his job for 20+ years. And it's how Zac Taylor got his.

It all paint the same picture of the same thing. The Bengals franchise is not a merit-based franchise. It is rotten with nepotism and that alone poisons the well. Coupled with things like loyalty being rewarded over merit, and THAT is precisely what Carson Palmer means.

And I haven't even mentioned non-cap related expenditures. Mike Brown's self-inflicted handicaps are even worse there, honestly.

But as tired as I am of Mike Brown's scam. I am equally tired of lazy false narratives about Mike Brown pushed by national journalists, unwilling or unable to do the slightest bit of research before mashing their keys and hitting submit. 10 years ago it was the same lazy nonsense, calling the Bengals "criminals" and all that. Because stuff like that ends up being a big strawman, distracting from the actual scam itself.

[Todd Gack]

For the record, Goodberry also said it’s partially true because it’s not all cap related as well.

[Todd Gack]

We will end up using the cap space to resign the losers we already have on the team.

On a side note, can we really trust homophobic Joe Mixon not to beat any women or assault a parking attendant if he signs a contract extension? We end up picking guys like Mixon because no one else wants him and we get great “value” on a guy in the 2nd round. I have a feeling he’ll end up getting in trouble again.

[Sea Ray]

If #1 doesn't happen, then I'd lay money that #2 will. If there's any team that will go to great lengths to sabotage its own success, it's the Bengals.

It sure looks like Joe Burrow will be a Bengal. Yesterday his mother shot down rumors that suggested otherwise:


Robin Burrow on Joe not wanting Bengals to draft him: 'No idea where that comes from'

Heisman Trophy winner and potential 2020 NFL Draft No. 1 pick Joe Burrow's mother, Robin, isn't sure about the origin of the narrative that her son doesn't want to play for the Cincinnati Bengals, but she insists there's nothing to it.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/02/17/robin-burrow-shoots-down-report-joe-doesnt-want-bengals-draft-him/4788585002/

[WrongVerb]

It sure looks like Joe Burrow will be a Bengal. Yesterday his mother shot down rumors that suggested otherwise:



https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/02/17/robin-burrow-shoots-down-report-joe-doesnt-want-bengals-draft-him/4788585002/

I'm amused you keep bringing this up as if it's a source of embarrassment for me. It's kinda cute, actually. I'm just glad you're not charging me rent for living in your head.

[Sea Ray]

I'm amused you keep bringing this up as if it's a source of embarrassment for me. It's kinda cute, actually. I'm just glad you're not charging me rent for living in your head.

You're not the only one that predicted this. I'll grant you that

[Redhook]

Recent comments by former #1 pick Steve Bartowksi: “They're Ohio guys [and] I might've offended them by telling them that, but if it's the Bengals, I think I'd pull an Eli Manning on that one," Bartowski said. "I said, 'You've got a chance to do that.' That's happened. [John] Elway kind of set the tone, then the Mannings delved into it after Eli was picked by San Diego."

And, the hits keep on coming. You’d have to think that all of these negative comments about the Bengals organization would be embarrassing and frustrating to them. And, maybe there would be some self-reflection on why so many bad comments are coming out about them. Like, were/are we really that bad? Why would players want to avoid playing for us?

It’d be so nice if the organization came out and said something about their past failures, that they’ve learned from that and realize that they need to do more. Then, show HOW they’re going to do more, not just the bare minimum. It’s not going to happen, obviously, but any sane person/organization in this situation would try to change its image that they have rightfully earned and have done absolutely nothing to change it.

[Sea Ray]

Steve Bartkowski? Like his Atlanta Falcons were any better?

I think the NFL might have to step in here and quietly set some folks straight. No way they want to start a trend where top college talents refuse to play for bad teams. That's counter to the system the NFL has set up

[Redhook]

Steve Bartkowski? Like his Atlanta Falcons were any better?

I think the NFL might have to step in here and quietly set some folks straight. No way they want to start a trend where top college talents refuse to play for bad teams. That's counter to the system the NFL has set up

The Falcons were terrible too. There’s more to it than that quote. Bartkowski was saying he was hurt all the time his first 3 years because the team was so bad and Burrow should try to get out of playing for the Bengals for the same reasons.

I wish the NFL would step in and set some folks straight.....the Brown’s 🤣. In all seriousness, it’s not a good look for the NFL and does go against the system. But, the Bengals have brought this negativity to themselves. If they would just try....

[Bob Sheed]

Steve Bartkowski? Like his Atlanta Falcons were any better?

I think the NFL might have to step in here and quietly set some folks straight. No way they want to start a trend where top college talents refuse to play for bad teams. That's counter to the system the NFL has set up

I think you're missing the point entirely. Which is strange... I can't believe I'm typing this again, because it really is beating a dead horse to do so. But then, comments like yours continue to pop up. Again, really strange... Ok fine, here goes. Again. :rolleyes:

It's not that the Bengals are bad. Plenty of teams are bad. It's the NFL.
And it's not that they haven't won a playoff game in 30 years. Plenty of teams go through long spells without a playoff win.
It's not what the Bengals spend on the cap. Everyone has to spend around the same amount.
It's none of these things that people who really should know better, keep coming back to (for some reason).

It's Mike Brown. It's the fact that winning is not top priority, and that loyalty is rewarded above merit. It poisons the well from the top on down. You NEVER want to work for a company like this. I have. It sucks. People in management positions who are terrible at their jobs, only there because of their last name. Or because they were loyal. It's really just an awful environment to work in. Sucks the life right out of you. And all the money in the world doesn't make it any better. THAT is PRECISELY what Carson Palmer is talking about.

"Bad teams?" Are you freaking kidding me? :lol:

I want Burrow to sign here. But if he's smart, he'll find a way not to. Because unless he can walk on water (and I hope he can), Burrow will be ruined here, while Mike Brown wipes his butt with Burrow's 1-ply "leverage".

Burrow convincing Mike Brown to take steps that other NFL teams are taking to try to win a Super Bowl? Child please. Burrow won't even be able to convince Mike Brown to turn the PBS Office thermostat above 67.

And yes... :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse: But if it's such a dead horse, why do people keep saying uninformed things like what I quoted above from you?

Again... it's just strange. Especially coming from you. Because I know you know better.

"Bad teams..." :rolleyes:

[Kingspoint]

Joe Goodberry had a series of Tweets talking about the Bengals in Free Agency that I found amusing. https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1228733385603985408









Someone then responded with this:


Joe Responded with:

I would love it if the Bengals went after Tier-3 Free Agents instead of always the Tier-5 garbage pile that they try to comb through. People who claim that Free Agency success isn't part of winning organization have no idea what they are talking about. In order to win a Championship, Free Agency must regularly be used from year to year and at a minimum, multiple Tier-3 or higher players need to be added. The Bengals have never ever tried. They have in fact intentionally tried not to, guaranteeing failure year after year (if you didn't win a playoff game, your season was a failure, which is where the lowest bar is set by successful franchises).

[Kingspoint]

Recent comments by former #1 pick Steve Bartowksi: “They're Ohio guys [and] I might've offended them by telling them that, but if it's the Bengals, I think I'd pull an Eli Manning on that one," Bartowski said. "I said, 'You've got a chance to do that.' That's happened. [John] Elway kind of set the tone, then the Mannings delved into it after Eli was picked by San Diego."

And, the hits keep on coming. You’d have to think that all of these negative comments about the Bengals organization would be embarrassing and frustrating to them. And, maybe there would be some self-reflection on why so many bad comments are coming out about them. Like, were/are we really that bad? Why would players want to avoid playing for us?

It’d be so nice if the organization came out and said something about their past failures, that they’ve learned from that and realize that they need to do more. Then, show HOW they’re going to do more, not just the bare minimum. It’s not going to happen, obviously, but any sane person/organization in this situation would try to change its image that they have rightfully earned and have done absolutely nothing to change it.

Yes,...Donald Sterling folowers agree.

[Redsfaithful]

Even if Burrow thinks all these things, it's 5 years and then move on, probably with a record setting contract where ever he wants to go. He won't even be 30 yet - his first FA contract will be massive and if he's really this good he'll be able to pick his spot then.

[Kingspoint]

Even if Burrow thinks all these things, it's 5 years and then move on, probably with a record setting contract where ever he wants to go. He won't even be 30 yet - his first FA contract will be massive and if he's really this good he'll be able to pick his spot then.

Great prospects have been destroyed by franchises in far fewer than five years.

[Redsfaithful]

Great prospects have been destroyed by franchises in far fewer than five years.

I mean, probably, but I think there's plenty of blame to go around when players bust, particularly in the last 10-20 years as things have modernized.

[Bob Sheed]

Right.

Plenty of blame to go around.

Open and shut case, Johnson.

[Kingspoint]

I mean, probably, but I think there's plenty of blame to go around when players bust, particularly in the last 10-20 years as things have modernized.

Yes. It takes a lot of people for a QB to be successful in the NFL, just as it takes a lot of people to blow up a prospect. But, it's a fact that all such structures are based on the foundation or lack of a quality foundation at the top of the organization.

[Todd Gack]

I would love it if the Bengals went after Tier-3 Free Agents instead of always the Tier-5 garbage pile that they try to comb through. People who claim that Free Agency success isn't part of winning organization have no idea what they are talking about. In order to win a Championship, Free Agency must regularly be used from year to year and at a minimum, multiple Tier-3 or higher players need to be added. The Bengals have never ever tried. They have in fact intentionally tried not to, guaranteeing failure year after year (if you didn't win a playoff game, your season was a failure, which is where the lowest bar is set by successful franchises).

Bengals are like NBA teams. They overpay crappy FA or resign the same garbage we have and say, “Look, we spent more than you think on FA.”

[Kingspoint]

Bengals are like NBA teams. They overpay crappy FA or resign the same garbage we have and say, “Look, we spent more than you think on FA.”

Yes. Part of Free Agency is not overspending on your own Free Agents. Pittsburgh, Seattle and New England regularly let these people walk, and rarely do they overpay for their own "crappy" Free Agents like the Bengals continually do. Should they make this mistake, they correct it immediately by cutting them or trading them.

[WVRed]

Yes. Part of Free Agency is not overspending on your own Free Agents. Pittsburgh, Seattle and New England regularly let these people walk, and rarely do they overpay for their own "crappy" Free Agents like the Bengals continually do. Should they make this mistake, they correct it immediately by cutting them or trading them.

Example: Donte Moncrief

[Kingspoint]

Where is the direction of this franchise coming from right now and what is the goal? That's the only thing that matters. This Joe Burrow talk just seems like the perfect Magician sleight-of-hand trick for the Bengals. I hear nothing at all being quoted by those in control about plans, directions, goals. It truly is the same old, same old. Joe Burrow is going to have a disastrous career because he was drafted by a franchise that seems to be able to control the minds of the people in the community who absolutely refuse to stand up to their continual B.S. This "don't talk about how bad ownership is" thread is a perfect example of this. The Brown family should be feeling so ashamed and uncomfortable right now that nothing short of an apology and a declaration that things will change outlining exactly what these changes will be should be accepted by the community. I can't believe how spineless Bengals' fans are.

[Redhook]

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/02/19/national-media-joe-burrow-pull-eli-elway-avoid-bengals/4804222002/

Wow, it’s getting ugly pretty fast. Any organization that cares would come out and defend themselves and have a plan of how they’re going to be better going forward. Snowballs chance in hell of that happening though.

[Spanky]

Where is the direction of this franchise coming from right now and what is the goal? That's the only thing that matters. This Joe Burrow talk just seems like the perfect Magician sleight-of-hand trick for the Bengals. I hear nothing at all being quoted by those in control about plans, directions, goals. It truly is the same old, same old. Joe Burrow is going to have a disastrous career because he was drafted by a franchise that seems to be able to control the minds of the people in the community who absolutely refuse to stand up to their continual B.S. This "don't talk about how bad ownership is" thread is a perfect example of this. The Brown family should be feeling so ashamed and uncomfortable right now that nothing short of an apology and a declaration that things will change outlining exactly what these changes will be should be accepted by the community. I can't believe how spineless Bengals' fans are.

I' think someone stayed up a little too late and found themselves in a YouTube video conspiracy theory hole. no franchise says who they are going to take in February, and Paul Dehner Jr. has a piece on The Athletic talking to Zac Taylor about some plans going forward (it's vague though because no coach is going to announce their FA targets for all to hear). I think everyone is on the same page that Ownership is a joke, people were just tired of everyone repeating the same S**t over and over that everyone already knows and would rather have a conversation about the team and not the stupid owner.

[Redhook]

Joe Burrow is going to have a disastrous career because he was drafted by a franchise that seems to be able to control the minds of the people in the community who absolutely refuse to stand up to their continual B.S. I can't believe how spineless Bengals' fans are.

In all seriousness, what can the fans do? Other than not going to the games, what can we do as a fan? I think we’re helpless and hopeless. And, you have to consider that if you were born into it, you can’t get just stop being a fan.

[Sea Ray]

I think you're missing the point entirely. Which is strange... I can't believe I'm typing this again, because it really is beating a dead horse to do so. But then, comments like yours continue to pop up. Again, really strange... Ok fine, here goes. Again. :rolleyes:

It's not that the Bengals are bad. Plenty of teams are bad. It's the NFL.
And it's not that they haven't won a playoff game in 30 years. Plenty of teams go through long spells without a playoff win.
It's not what the Bengals spend on the cap. Everyone has to spend around the same amount.
It's none of these things that people who really should know better, keep coming back to (for some reason).

It's Mike Brown. It's the fact that winning is not top priority, and that loyalty is rewarded above merit. It poisons the well from the top on down. You NEVER want to work for a company like this. I have. It sucks. People in management positions who are terrible at their jobs, only there because of their last name. Or because they were loyal. It's really just an awful environment to work in. Sucks the life right out of you. And all the money in the world doesn't make it any better. THAT is PRECISELY what Carson Palmer is talking about.

"Bad teams?" Are you freaking kidding me? :lol:

I want Burrow to sign here. But if he's smart, he'll find a way not to. Because unless he can walk on water (and I hope he can), Burrow will be ruined here, while Mike Brown wipes his butt with Burrow's 1-ply "leverage".

Burrow convincing Mike Brown to take steps that other NFL teams are taking to try to win a Super Bowl? Child please. Burrow won't even be able to convince Mike Brown to turn the PBS Office thermostat above 67.

And yes... :deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse: But if it's such a dead horse, why do people keep saying uninformed things like what I quoted above from you?

Again... it's just strange. Especially coming from you. Because I know you know better.

"Bad teams..." :rolleyes:

How far would Joe Burrow have taken the 2005 team and the 2015 Bengals team? I'm guessing far into the playoffs and then we wouldn't be having this conversation. There was a time in the midst of that 5 yr run of playoff appearances that Mike Brown was being lauded for the organization he put together. He had talent up and down the 53 man roster and coaches like Gruden, Zimmer and Hue all who got head coaching gigs due to the job they did as Bengals.

[Sea Ray]

Even if Burrow thinks all these things, it's 5 years and then move on, probably with a record setting contract where ever he wants to go. He won't even be 30 yet - his first FA contract will be massive and if he's really this good he'll be able to pick his spot then.

The Bengals will franchise him twice. They'll control him for 7 yrs

[WVRed]

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2020/02/19/national-media-joe-burrow-pull-eli-elway-avoid-bengals/4804222002/

Wow, it’s getting ugly pretty fast. Any organization that cares would come out and defend themselves and have a plan of how they’re going to be better going forward. Snowballs chance in hell of that happening though.

I’m not buying it.

Mike Brown is not Dean Spanos. Had Eli done this in Cincinnati, my guess is Brown would have sat on his draft rights until he signed to play.

It’s a slow news cycle right now for the NFL. This is nothing.

[GoReds]

Panthers fan...

What would the Bengals response be if the Panthers offered Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey for the #1 pick?

[Redhook]

I’m not buying it.

Mike Brown is not Dean Spanos. Had Eli done this in Cincinnati, my guess is Brown would have sat on his draft rights until he signed to play.

It’s a slow news cycle right now for the NFL. This is nothing.

I agree. It is crazy though. I didn't expect any of this. Knowing MB's history, unless he's getting Mahomes in a trade for this pick, I can't think of any possible package that he would accept.

[Redhook]

Panthers fan...

What would the Bengals response be if the Panthers offered Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey for the #1 pick?

So, basically McCaffrey for Burrow? No. I'll take Burrow and Mixon over Newton/Dalton and McCaffery going forward.

[ScotlandRed]

Can’t wait until Burrow goes #1 and it pisses all the national media off because they have to give the Bengals some major coverage. They really don’t want to have to do that it seems.

[Spanky]

Panthers fan...

What would the Bengals response be if the Panthers offered Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey for the #1 pick?

They would hang up the phone when they hear the panthers say "Cam"

[Spanky]

Can’t wait until Burrow goes #1 and it pisses all the national media off because they have to give the Bengals some major coverage. They really don’t want to have to do that it seems.

what are the chances they cut to commercial when the Bengals make the No.1 overall pick.

[membengal]

Panthers fan...

What would the Bengals response be if the Panthers offered Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey for the #1 pick?

Laughter until asphyxiation occurs.

[Bob Sheed]

How far would Joe Burrow have taken the 2005 team and the 2015 Bengals team? I'm guessing far into the playoffs and then we wouldn't be having this conversation. There was a time in the midst of that 5 yr run of playoff appearances that Mike Brown was being lauded for the organization he put together. He had talent up and down the 53 man roster and coaches like Gruden, Zimmer and Hue all who got head coaching gigs due to the job they did as Bengals.

The QB had nothing to do with 2005 and 2015's failures, except in one very relevant way. The QB got hurt.

If you're saying Burrow would have found a way to not get hurt, ok. I can't disagree.

But I have to throw this out there, just to bring us back to the modern age and further illustrate my point. After Hue Jackson's colossal failure in Cleveland, Hue found himself back with the Bengals as a coach. No other NFL team will ever hire Hue Jackson, ever again. But Mike Brown did. Why do you suppose that was?

Was it
a) Hue's proven track record of success
or
b) Loyalty to Mike Brown shown even when employed elsewhere

(queue the Final Jeopardy music... :rolleyes: )

[Spanky]

The QB had nothing to do with 2005 and 2015's failures, except in one very relevant way. The QB got hurt.

If you're saying Burrow would have found a way to not get hurt, ok. I can't disagree.

But I have to throw this out there, just to bring us back to the modern age and further illustrate my point. After Hue Jackson's colossal failure in Cleveland, Hue found himself back with the Bengals as a coach. No other NFL team will ever hire Hue Jackson, ever again. But Mike Brown did. Why do you suppose that was?

Was it
a) Hue's proven track record of success
or
b) Loyalty to Mike Brown shown even when employed elsewhere

(queue the Final Jeopardy music... :rolleyes: )

Hue was hired because of Mike Brown's loyalty to Marvin Lewis. Notice how those 2 aren't here anymore after the last time Marv convinced Mike to bring his guy back.

[Sea Ray]

The QB had nothing to do with 2005 and 2015's failures, except in one very relevant way. The QB got hurt.

If you're saying Burrow would have found a way to not get hurt, ok. I can't disagree.

But I have to throw this out there, just to bring us back to the modern age and further illustrate my point. After Hue Jackson's colossal failure in Cleveland, Hue found himself back with the Bengals as a coach. No other NFL team will ever hire Hue Jackson, ever again. But Mike Brown did. Why do you suppose that was?

Was it
a) Hue's proven track record of success
or
b) Loyalty to Mike Brown shown even when employed elsewhere

(queue the Final Jeopardy music... :rolleyes: )

You're making my point. The Bengals had a team that could advance in the playoffs but it all came crashing down due to injury. Therefore it's not inevitable that you lose in Cincinnati

[Sea Ray]

Panthers fan...

What would the Bengals response be if the Panthers offered Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey for the #1 pick?

Not even tempting. Cam's best years are behind him and RBs are a dime a dozen due to injury factor and short shelf life. I'd rather have Andy Dalton+Joe Mixon than Cam+McCafferty right now

[Bob Sheed]

You're making my point. The Bengals had a team that could advance in the playoffs but it all came crashing down due to injury. Therefore it's not inevitable that you lose in Cincinnati

Just more of that darn bad luck, eh?

[Spanky]

Just more of that darn bad luck, eh?

Bad luck and bad coaching.

[Sea Ray]

Just more of that darn bad luck, eh?

If Joe Burrow so much as wins a playoff game as a Bengal they'll build a statue to him.

[Larkin90]

Draft him at #1 and if he refuses to sign, let him know that you're not trading him and he'll have to sit out the entire year. Then let him know you'll be tanking in 2020 and drafting him #1 again for the following year. Sign and play or your career will be held hostage.