2020 Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread

[Hillsdale87]

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/19/21143819/tyler-boyd-leads-frustration-from-current-and-former-bengals-news

Lots of current and former Bengals standing up for the team, including Solomon Wilcots, who seems to feel his comments were taken out of perspective.

This whole thing has gotten out of control. The Bengals are not a good organization, but this is also not the 90s Bengals. Mike Brown may be up there with Snyder and Ford as the worst owners, but there is no recent history to suggest that going to the Bengals is going to kill your career. The Bengals are no worse than 10 other organizations. Again, that's not glowing praise by any means, but it's reality.

And as bad as the owner may be, a good coach and QB fix 90% of the problems. QB failures are generally on the coach or the player, not the personnel guy. If Taylor is a good coach and Burrow is a top 10 QB, the Bengals will be a consistent playoff team


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WVRed]

Panthers fan...

What would the Bengals response be if the Panthers offered Cam Newton and Christian McCaffrey for the #1 pick?

Throw in the Panthers entire 2020 draft and #1s in 2021 and 2022 and it’s a deal.

[Kingspoint]

Hobson:

The media will not get off the narrative of "Joe Burrow should refuse to play for the Bengals.. What do you think the Bengals could do to erase that narrative? (Re-sign AJ, free agency)? Sam Weaver, Amelia, OH

SAM: Is the media saying that? Or are other teams getting the media to say that? Most likely the latter.

[Bob Sheed]

This thread really should be a Hobson-free zone.

20+ years of garbage propaganda from that guy.

Lemme guess... The Bengals are "right near the cap and will go to war with what they have."

Pre cap-floor, aka the Mike Brown Rule, that was his annual horse poop.

Now it's "all 31 of the other teams orchastrating the Bengal hate"

Ranks right up there with blaming bad luck for the 30 year playoff win drought.

If only we could find a common thread in all of it! Nothing jumps out to me, I blame the fans.

[Bob Sheed]

Dear Geoff,

"How old were you the last time the Bengals won a playoff game? Were you even born yet?"

Signed, Bob

------

BOB: Is it a 30 year playoff victory drought? Or are other teams getting the media to say that? Most likely the latter. -Geoff

[Bob Sheed]

Dear Geoff,

Over the past 30 years of futility can you think of anything that has remained constant within the organization, that could possibly be to blame?

Signed, Bob

------

BOB: Has there really been anything constant within the organization that could possibly be to blame? Or are other teams getting the media to say that? Most likely the latter. -Geoff

[North]

I can't post this in the no negative things about b'gals thread. That prior restraint one that a poster insisted upon.

..."As mentioned above, part of the reason the Bengals aren’t active in outside unrestricted free agency is because it negatively affects the compensatory pick formula. Cincinnati has made a commitment to the draft-and-develop approach, for better or worse, so the hoarding of day three picks is essential to their roster-building process.

Common sense tells us the team will net more than the seven picks they currently hold for the 2020 class. Even so, they want picks in what is a rebuild under Zac Taylor over the next couple of seasons.

The money used towards late day two and day three picks is also substantially lower than that of outside free agents. We hate to use the term “cheap labor”, but it’s almost apropos here."


https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/15/21136452/bengals-free-agents-2020-nfl-news-aj-green

[Todd Gack]

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/19/21143819/tyler-boyd-leads-frustration-from-current-and-former-bengals-news

Lots of current and former Bengals standing up for the team, including Solomon Wilcots, who seems to feel his comments were taken out of perspective.

This whole thing has gotten out of control. The Bengals are not a good organization, but this is also not the 90s Bengals. Mike Brown may be up there with Snyder and Ford as the worst owners, but there is no recent history to suggest that going to the Bengals is going to kill your career. The Bengals are no worse than 10 other organizations. Again, that's not glowing praise by any means, but it's reality.

And as bad as the owner may be, a good coach and QB fix 90% of the problems. QB failures are generally on the coach or the player, not the personnel guy. If Taylor is a good coach and Burrow is a top 10 QB, the Bengals will be a consistent playoff team


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Carson's whole point is that Mike isn't committed to winning a championship. Sure, any team/franchise can "win" with a QB. God knows the Browns have sucked at that. But if given the chance, you can bet they'd try like crazy to win a Super Bowl.

I don't believe Mike Brown really wants to win.

[Todd Gack]

I can't post this in the no negative things about b'gals thread. That prior restraint one that a poster insisted upon.

..."As mentioned above, part of the reason the Bengals aren’t active in outside unrestricted free agency is because it negatively affects the compensatory pick formula. Cincinnati has made a commitment to the draft-and-develop approach, for better or worse, so the hoarding of day three picks is essential to their roster-building process.

Common sense tells us the team will net more than the seven picks they currently hold for the 2020 class. Even so, they want picks in what is a rebuild under Zac Taylor over the next couple of seasons.

The money used towards late day two and day three picks is also substantially lower than that of outside free agents. We hate to use the term “cheap labor”, but it’s almost apropos here."


https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/15/21136452/bengals-free-agents-2020-nfl-news-aj-green

Insanity.

[Bob Sheed]

If Mike Brown required Hobson to enter the office every morning on all fours, barking like a dog, he would do it.

Figuratively, that's what he does already.

[membengal]

no negative things about b'gals thread

For the record, that's not what the ground rules of that thread are - stop being disingenuous. The request was a thread where not EVERYTHING is run through the Mike-Brown-sucks filter. They can be incompetent independent of Mike Brown. And often are!

[Todd Gack]

For the record, that's not what the ground rules of that thread are - stop being disingenuous. The request was a thread where not EVERYTHING is run through the Mike-Brown-sucks filter. They can be incompetent independent of Mike Brown. And often are!

You're the epitome of Bungledom.

[membengal]

...

[Bob Sheed]

For the record, that's not what the ground rules of that thread are - stop being disingenuous. The request was a thread where not ANYTHING is run through the Mike-Brown-sucks filter. They can be incompetent independent of Mike Brown. And often are!

Fixed that for you, you're welcome.

For the record, it's pretty tough to honestly discuss anything Bengal related without running into the Mike Brown Paywall. Unless you're just discussing "what would be nice" or running 5000 mock drafts or whatever.

Because sooner or later, whatever you're talking about, comes down to either what Mike Brown does, or will not do.

For example:

"Bengals need to sign a difference maker in free agency to address the inadaquecies of the offensive and defensive lines."

... I mean sure, dream away. Ain't gonna happen though. And you know why. We all do. So why even bring it up, other than to dream. Which is fine, but again, stuff like that is right there with your 5000 mock drafts (fantasy land).

Or how about this one:

I don't know why everyone says Mike Brown is so cheap. He always spends to the cap.

... this one is all kinds of stupid. And you know why. We all do.

etc, etc, etc.

It sucks that Mike Brown has poisoned the Bengals Well to the extent that he has. And now you have your own thread where you are free to ignore that fact. Which is fine by me. I even participate there from time to time. But don't act like that isn't exactly what it is. Be real. In this thread anyway.

[Sea Ray]

Fixed that for you, you're welcome.

For the record, it's pretty tough to honestly discuss anything Bengal related without running into the Mike Brown Paywall. Unless you're just discussing "what would be nice" or running 5000 mock drafts or whatever.

Because sooner or later, whatever you're talking about, comes down to either what Mike Brown does, or will not do.

For example:

"Bengals need to sign a difference maker in free agency to address the inadaquecies of the offensive and defensive lines."

... I mean sure, dream away. Ain't gonna happen though. And you know why. We all do. So why even bring it up, other than to dream. Which is fine, but again, stuff like that is right there with your 5000 mock drafts (fantasy land).

Or how about this one:

I don't know why everyone says Mike Brown is so cheap. He always spends to the cap.

... this one is all kinds of stupid. And you know why. We all do.

etc, etc, etc.

It sucks that Mike Brown has poisoned the Bengals Well to the extent that he has. And now you have your own thread where you are free to ignore that fact. Which is fine by me. I even participate there from time to time. But don't act like that isn't exactly what it is. Be real. In this thread anyway.

It wasn't broken thus didn't need fixing

[Bob Sheed]

It wasn't broken thus didn't need fixing

No, I'm pretty sure it was broken.

[Kingspoint]

I know I've said this dozens of times, but I'm saying it again: I disagree with you, Bob, about Mike Brown.

This idea, discussing the Bengals without directly relating it to what would the Brown Family do, I agree when discussing the franchise, but not the details:

"For the record, it's pretty tough to honestly discuss anything Bengal related without running into the Mike Brown Paywall. Unless you're just discussing "what would be nice" or running 5000 mock drafts or whatever.

Because sooner or later, whatever you're talking about, comes down to either what Mike Brown does, or will not do."


Until what I feel was the handing over of the football operations to his heirs prior to Marvin's departure, I was OK with what Mike Brown was doing since he signed Lorenzo Neal in 2001. I felt he switched that year from deliberately sabotaging the franchise to make sure he missed the playoffs to taking steps he had never taken before each and every year for 17 consecutive years to try to win a Championship. Clearly much more could have been done. Just ask Carson Palmer. But, the Mike Brown business portfolio was worth 1000 times more in 2001 than it was worth in 1990. In 2001, his non-Bengals related businesses were worth more than the Bengals were worth in 1992. Even with the collapse of the stock markets in 2002, Mike Brown's assets continued to increase, as he didn't have risky investments. They might have been baby steps, but every year after the signing of Neal, he did something he had never done before with the goal of winning a Championship. The franchise was worth so much, he couldn't screw it up with 15-20% annual growth in value. His other assets alone made him one of the richest people in the Tri-County area. By his peers, he was considered the most talented and intelligent financial person in the Tri-County area. His advice was constantly being sought. Is it any wonder how he was able to control the lemmings disguised as City Commissioners to favor the Brown family at times and why publishers threatened firing of any writer who didn't tow the line? Cincinnati was once the third most populated City in the U.S., and it seems like it's citizens have been chasing that prestige ever since, afraid of losing their NFL franchise if they stand up to the power of the Brown family.

What I see now is Mike Brown allowing his heirs to make their own mistakes, just as he had to make them, and they are going to err on the side of prudence and the hiring of nobody who has a mind of their own who might challenge their decisions, like when Jay Gruden when silent listening to Hue Jackson's stupid ideas, even though Hue should have been a subordinate.

So, Katie and company are at the infancy of their control. Joe Burrow is getting drafted in 1992 by a team that does not have a Championship as its goal, but fiscal responsibility and 100% control as its goal. It already reached its goal. Joe Burrow will sell tickets, even if it's empty hope, because like Scientology running a commercial yesterday on the Comedy Channel, there's always a new group of suckers to come along in addition to former members who might come back and give them money again.

20 more years of the next generation of the Brown Family going unchecked and unchallenged by the local residents ensures one thing: The Bungles live forever.

[Sea Ray]

I assume you mean Mike Brown's kids and not siblings.

We'll see how this year goes. My guess is that Mike Brown knows this is a make or break year and therefore is not going to let his daughter screw things up 100% this time. He'll listen more to Tobin. He knows things are on the brink

[Bob Sheed]

My guess is that Mike Brown knows this is a make or break year and therefore is not going to let his daughter screw things up 100% this time. He'll listen more to Tobin. He knows things are on the brink

https://media.giphy.com/media/xiJXFeua9tMqc/giphy.gif

[Kingspoint]

I assume you mean Mike Brown's kids and not siblings.

We'll see how this year goes. My guess is that Mike Brown knows this is a make or break year and therefore is not going to let his daughter screw things up 100% this time. He'll listen more to Tobin. He knows things are on the brink

Did I say siblings? I consciously tried not to say siblings and say heirs, but I'm on the 8th day of a bad cold, so my language skills are poor.

I looked back and corrected that plus two other mistakes (error instead of err, and forgot a space).

[Kingspoint]

I assume you mean Mike Brown's kids and not siblings.

We'll see how this year goes. My guess is that Mike Brown knows this is a make or break year and therefore is not going to let his daughter screw things up 100% this time. He'll listen more to Tobin. He knows things are on the brink

I hope you're right because I think Mike Brown could turn Joe Burrow into a Champion were he to get back involved. I have zero faith in Katie and Troy if Mike lets them make their own mistakes. It's a tough call for him, but the opportunity with Burrow might just get him out of retirement.

Giving Tobin the G.M. title with appropriate pay, and hiring of three more scouts with one of the current scouts promoted to Director of Scouting would be the best move the Bengals could make...more important than drafting Burrow #1.

[GAC]

Where is the direction of this franchise coming from right now and what is the goal? That's the only thing that matters. This Joe Burrow talk just seems like the perfect Magician sleight-of-hand trick for the Bengals. I hear nothing at all being quoted by those in control about plans, directions, goals. It truly is the same old, same old. Joe Burrow is going to have a disastrous career because he was drafted by a franchise that seems to be able to control the minds of the people in the community who absolutely refuse to stand up to their continual B.S. This "don't talk about how bad ownership is" thread is a perfect example of this. The Brown family should be feeling so ashamed and uncomfortable right now that nothing short of an apology and a declaration that things will change outlining exactly what these changes will be should be accepted by the community. I can't believe how spineless Bengals' fans are.

I agree and disagree with your points above.

I would not call Bengal fans spineless. In what way or manner? We're simply fans. The best, and most effective way, for fans to strike back at an organization (owner) is to spend no money on them. Total and complete boycott. Attendance, empty stadium sends a strong message. And it's really the only voice a fan has - besides taking to social media - unless one wants to organize a rally and storm the castle with torches and pitch-forks (lol).

This talk about wanting the NFL to intervene some how, some way? .. and do what precisely? I could understand if an organization was hemorrhaging money, hurting the NFL from a financial aspect to the point they would intervene and 1) possibly "force" ownership to sell to interested buyers, or 2) relocation. It happens.

The fact that a large segment of the fan-base hates Mike Brown with the intensity of seven burning suns means very little to the NFL brass. They hear it; but it goes out the other side because #1 the Bengals (financially) aren't in the situation above. They're payroll is 23rd out of 32 teams. And over the last decade, as far as perform-wise (record, play-off appearances) goes - there are far more teams in far worse position then the Bengals. When the perennial last place Browns went 0-16 the NFL didn't even blink.

No one on this thread is saying one shouldn't talk about how bad ownership is. We're ALL on the same page on that. Do we need to hold a vote to get a consensus so we can all move on to other issues, and further the discussion, other then constantly regurgitating "Mike Brown is a terrible owner ... Mike Brown is not committed to winning"? It's fine if one wants to make the Brown family feel ashamed and uncomfortable. I guarantee you they don't read The Tavern (lol), so why keep screaming the same line in the ears of fellow fans, beating them over the head, who already agreed on that point (LOL)?

You mention another point (above) that Redhook also mentioned earlier ...


You’d have to think that all of these negative comments about the Bengals organization would be embarrassing and frustrating to them. And, maybe there would be some self-reflection on why so many bad comments are coming out about them. Like, were/are we really that bad? Why would players want to avoid playing for us? .....

but any sane person/organization in this situation would try to change its image that they have rightfully earned and have done absolutely nothing to change it.

One would rationally think, when looking at the bad image, bad press, the Bengals get - besides an empty stadium - this "new" ownership that is gradually taking over would take notice and want to do something about it. And according to a few articles posted earlier, they have taken notice of it and want to change it. Now will they? Don't know. But I'm going to give them that chance. That's all. That's not a huge boost of confidence in them at all. It's all one can do (lol).

My ISSUE in this discussion is two-pronged, and is with Carson Palmer and the media. Agreeing on a discussion forum with what Palmer said is not an issue. A tree falling in a forest. It's Palmer's perfectly timed public effort, with the help of the media to fire the flame, to dissuade Burrow, make him think twice, about going to the Bengals. They're running a public campaign to try and dissuade quality, possibly game-changing player(s) from coming to the Bengals.

Think about that? On one hand fans are complaining that this organization doesn't pursue higher tier (level) talent enough ... and then, with the other hand yell "Don't come here! This owner/organization sucks, or they'll ruin your career!"

I don't know what to say LOL

But Burrow's recent "I've got leverage" comment does concern me to a small degree. It's one thing for Bengal's management to "blow it" when it comes to the draft .. but quite another when you miss/lose out on drafted players who refuse to play for you. What's the purpose of the draft order then?

JMO, but you're getting an opportunity to do something all of us, including most college level players, could only fantasize about - play pro sports, and make millions doing so. As a amateur college player entering the draft, you shouldn't get to choose where that opportunity is. Be thankful you got it. Those same winners we complain about, think get shown favoritism, are going to continue to be the winners if player's get to choose where they go.

IMO, the penalty for refusing should be much stiffer, or your system is worthless.

[GAC]

I hope you're right because I think Mike Brown could turn Joe Burrow into a Champion were he to get back involved. I have zero faith in Katie and Troy if Mike lets them make their own mistakes. It's a tough call for him, but the opportunity with Burrow might just get him out of retirement.

Giving Tobin the G.M. title with appropriate pay, and hiring of three more scouts with one of the current scouts promoted to Director of Scouting would be the best move the Bengals could make...more important than drafting Burrow #1.

I don't think Mike is retired (lol). From what I understand (read) he may be leaving more of the decision-making to the "team", but is still "around".

And this "team" didn't start taking over the reins until the beginning of the previous season. IF, and I say IF, Mike is leaving the decision-making responsibilities, direction of the organization, in their hands, then it's a small window IMO. OK. Fine. A big part of that team is Mike Brown's kids. And I'm sure, besides their formal education, they've learned a thing or two from Daddy. That does not mean they are necessarily going to run the organization exactly like Daddy.

I think Mike Brown ... yeah, stiff-necked, hard-headed Mike Brown (in his mid-80s) ... has seen the writing on the wall so to speak, the sentiment/attitude of the fans/city towards him and the organization, and that's why you're seeing a transition of power. May be hard to believe, but it's happening IMO. All things must pass.

I'm simply approaching this as giving them a shot. That's it. I'm still from Missouri (lol). This draft, and the upcoming season, IMO, is very critical - has the organization at a possible turning point - where one will know whether they're heading in the right direction. But understand. IMO, this team was better then that 2-14 record. I know. Ain't saying much, but I still contend, from an offensive side, they were decimated by injury, far more then a lack of talent. JMO.

The key issue/question moving forward is WHO is going to #1 recognize team weakness/needs, and #2 responsible, going forward, in evaluating and acquiring that talent? I'd say the answer is Tobin and Taylor. That is their forte. When it comes to negotiations, contracts, etc, then it falls to Katie (hubby). Kate has almost 30 years of experience, the first woman to be a chief contract negotiator in the NFL, and is respected around the league as an expert on the NFL's complicated salary-cap structure. IMO, when all is said and done, she will be the primary decision-maker, everything will "flow through her" at some point in the future when it comes to the final word.

Now will that be good or bad moving forward? Fasten your seat-belts and lets see.

But fans can't keep complaining about the level of talent this team goes after, the lack thereof, or settles on, not committed to winning .. while at the same time being a "counter-productive" element towards any future efforts they may make to improve the team (direction) by telling quality players they'd be stupid to come here, don't do it.

Fans keep saying "They're gonna blow this, I just know it. They're going to continue to screw this thing up. Same-o, same-o. Nothing changes".

You could very well be right. Lets see.

[Todd Gack]

The fact that a large segment of the fan-base hates Mike Brown with the intensity of seven burning suns means very little to the NFL brass. They hear it; but it goes out the other side because #1 the Bengals (financially) aren't in the situation above. They're payroll is 23rd out of 32 teams. And over the last decade, as far as perform-wise (record, play-off appearances) goes - there are far more teams in far worse position then the Bengals. When the perennial last place Browns went 0-16 the NFL didn't even blink.



The worst thing to happen to this franchise outside of just being plain cheap and awful during the 90's is that their performance hasn't been the worst. Mike Brown and ownership will point and say, "Look, we went to the playoffs 5 straight years and we're not THAT bad." So then Bengals fans get on Twitter and parrot that exact statement to the national media and Mike Brown knows he still has this decidedly ignorant fanbase in his pocket again. Look, we've seen this song and dance before. We have a new generation of Bengals fans who have never seen or felt the 90s. They truly have no idea how cheap this man is. Until he actually commits to winning a Super Bowl instead of just being "ok," this franchise isn't going to progress. Joe Burrow isn't going to be the savior everyone thinks he will be. As many have state, it's going to take more than just him to be relevant again.

[Redsfaithful]

The worst thing to happen to this franchise outside of just being plain cheap and awful during the 90's is that their performance hasn't been the worst.

I've said this before but I had a lot of fun in all those playoff seasons. Lot of happy Sundays, especially once my oldest son started watching. This isn't real life, and because I DO remember the 90s I think I appreciate the good times in an appropriate way.

I just want a diversion. When they are 2-14 I don't even get that, but luckily they'll be competitive again with Burrow.

Most fans will see their favorite teams win a handful of championships in their entire life, unless they are fans of teams from a place like New York, LA, San Francisco, etc. The Bengals are never going to compete year in, year out for a Super Bowl unless they strike it rich with a Peyton Manning type of QB. That's the same situation a bunch of teams and cities find themselves in.

Cincinnati sports fans should be happy right now. The Reds are about to finally play competitive baseball again and the Bengals are about to get a franchise QB. It's not so bad folks.

[Bob Sheed]

There's that Mike Brown word again. "competitive."

And isn't that the dream of every team's fan base? To be competitive?

No, it's not. Ask fans of most teams and you'll hear words like "dominant." "Successful." "Champions."

But 30 years of Mike Brown has this fan base so beaten down, that most would be ecstatic with "competitive." Heck, the Bengals were competitive during most of the Marvin Lewis years.

Competitive is when you play just good enough to lose. Any more or any less, and you have to use a more appropriate word there.

"Competitive." Like I said before. Bengals fans these days sound like a bunch of battered wives defending their husbands. Look no further than the "no talking bad about Mike Brown" thread in this very forum. Scour the internet for other sports team forums and you won't find such a thread.

"We're just lucky we have a team." :lol:

Kids, this is why monopolies are bad.

[Redsfaithful]

It's just a fundamental disagreement on the point of sports I guess. If I needed my teams to be champions every year I wouldn't watch sports at all. It would be a totally miserable experience.

I consider myself lucky that I've seen the Reds win one, Ohio State football two (+ a few final fours in basketball), the Cavs one, and I've seen a Super Bowl featuring the Bengals. That's a pretty sorry tally for a 38 year old compared to many fan bases, but you know very well it could be worse. Literally millions of people are sitting at 0 titles for their favorite teams in the last 40 years. And some of them have even seen teams move away - imagine growing up as a sports fan in San Diego? And people don't even talk about them as having it rough all that much.

[Redsfaithful]

If all someone cares about is a championship, do they even enjoy the regular season when their team is good? None of it matters except the title? I can see that happening once you've been spoiled enough, anything becomes routine (like the Pats, the Yankees at times, etc.) but again, I'd stop watching sports at that point.

I do feel bored with most of Ohio State regular season football, so I guess it's like that. The attraction there at this point is that it's a family/cultural thing, because sure, it doesn't usually matter much until November.

[Bob Sheed]

It's just a fundamental disagreement on the point of sports I guess. If I needed my teams to be champions every year I wouldn't watch sports at all.

I'd settle for "any" year.

But I agree with the rest of what you said. 1990 Reds were fun. Wire to wire.
88 Bengals were just as fun. Boomer's camera-man faking play action. The Ickey Shuffle. Good stuff.
Bearcats final four, pretty awesome.

That's my tally.

As for San Diego, I have about as much remorse for Hawaii's sports fans and for many of the same reasons right now. (cough...sneeze)

[Redsfaithful]

As for San Diego, I have about as much remorse for Hawaii's sports fans and for many of the same reasons right now. (cough...sneeze)

That's fair!

[Todd Gack]

It's just a fundamental disagreement on the point of sports I guess. If I needed my teams to be champions every year I wouldn't watch sports at all. It would be a totally miserable experience.


It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

[Bob Sheed]

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

I agree with most of what you said but I think you open your argument up to be pidgin-holed when you phrase it in absolutes like that.

I think Mike Brown wouldn't mind winning the Super Bowl every year. It's just not worth it to him financially to invest any more than the bare minimum in non-cap related expenditures.

For me, "it would be nice" to own a new Tesla, for example. But it's not worth the cost of a Tesla, to me, to justify purchasing one. Others may feel differently. Maybe it's worth putting away 100 dollars a week toward a Tesla. To others, it might be worth it to them to go out and buy one right now, or perhaps devote 2000 dollars a week toward a new Tesla.

So again, to Mike Brown, winning a Super Bowl is not worth putting any more than the bare minimum into non-cap related expenditures. To other NFL owners, it's worth it to them to invest quite a bit into these expenditures. And that's really what it comes down to, as to why Mike Brown sucks so badly. He owns an NFL team. An entity that pretty much prints money. And he's being a cheapskate about it, in areas where other NFL owners are not.

And THAT is why the high water mark for the Bengals over the past 30 years, has been one-and-done in the playoffs.

But to say Mike Brown isn't trying to win, isn't really true. He's trying to win. The same way I'm trying to buy a Tesla by saving 100 dollars a week for a 50,000 dollar car.

As a fan, this realization is really worse than just saying "he's not trying." Because that's a pretty easy statement to debunk. He's trying. I guess. But he really should be trying a heck of a lot more. Which, of course, he will not do. And neither will his kids.

Plus, he values loyalty over merit, which also sucks, but that's a different conversation.

[Kingspoint]

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

That is so true. I need to see some passion from the Owner. I'd much rather have Daniel Snyder. He's at least passionate about trying to win. The only passion I have ever seen from Katie and Troy is their passion for money and control. They have shown zero passion for trying to win, which is why they would ruin Joe Burrow and wouldn't care one iota about it.

[Kingspoint]

I agree with most of what you said but I think you open your argument up to be pidgin-holed when you phrase it in absolutes like that.

I think Mike Brown wouldn't mind winning the Super Bowl every year. It's just not worth it to him financially to invest any more than the bare minimum in non-cap related expenditures.

For me, "it would be nice" to own a new Tesla, for example. But it's not worth the cost of a Tesla, to me, to justify purchasing one. Others may feel differently. Maybe it's worth putting away 100 dollars a week toward a Tesla. To others, it might be worth it to them to go out and buy one right now, or perhaps devote 2000 dollars a week toward a new Tesla.

So again, to Mike Brown, winning a Super Bowl is not worth putting any more than the bare minimum into non-cap related expenditures. To other NFL owners, it's worth it to them to invest quite a bit into these expenditures. And that's really what it comes down to, as to why Mike Brown sucks so badly. He owns an NFL team. An entity that pretty much prints money. And he's being a cheapskate about it, in areas where other NFL owners are not.

And THAT is why the high water mark for the Bengals over the past 30 years, has been one-and-done in the playoffs.

But to say Mike Brown isn't trying to win, isn't really true. He's trying to win. The same way I'm trying to buy a Tesla by saving 100 dollars a week for a 50,000 dollar car.

As a fan, this realization is really worse than just saying "he's not trying." Because that's a pretty easy statement to debunk. He's trying. I guess. But he really should be trying a heck of a lot more. Which, of course, he will not do. And neither will his kids.

Plus, he values loyalty over merit, which also sucks, but that's a different conversation.

Yes. Mike Brown has been trying to win ever since he signed Lorenzo Neal to a contract. He got better at it every year until 15 months ago, which is why I don't think the last 15 months has been him running things. I still see no sign of him running things and all signs pointing to Katie and Troy.

This is the only franchise in the universe where the fans have no idea who is running the team. The Head Coach has to answer questions about player contracts. That's insane and ludicrous.

[Kingspoint]

I don't think Mike is retired (lol). From what I understand (read) he may be leaving more of the decision-making to the "team", but is still "around".

And this "team" didn't start taking over the reins until the beginning of the previous season. IF, and I say IF, Mike is leaving the decision-making responsibilities, direction of the organization, in their hands, then it's a small window IMO. OK. Fine. A big part of that team is Mike Brown's kids. And I'm sure, besides their formal education, they've learned a thing or two from Daddy. That does not mean they are necessarily going to run the organization exactly like Daddy.

I think Mike Brown ... yeah, stiff-necked, hard-headed Mike Brown (in his mid-80s) ... has seen the writing on the wall so to speak, the sentiment/attitude of the fans/city towards him and the organization, and that's why you're seeing a transition of power. May be hard to believe, but it's happening IMO. All things must pass.

I'm simply approaching this as giving them a shot. That's it. I'm still from Missouri (lol). This draft, and the upcoming season, IMO, is very critical - has the organization at a possible turning point - where one will know whether they're heading in the right direction. But understand. IMO, this team was better then that 2-14 record. I know. Ain't saying much, but I still contend, from an offensive side, they were decimated by injury, far more then a lack of talent. JMO.

The key issue/question moving forward is WHO is going to #1 recognize team weakness/needs, and #2 responsible, going forward, in evaluating and acquiring that talent? I'd say the answer is Tobin and Taylor. That is their forte. When it comes to negotiations, contracts, etc, then it falls to Katie (hubby). Kate has almost 30 years of experience, the first woman to be a chief contract negotiator in the NFL, and is respected around the league as an expert on the NFL's complicated salary-cap structure. IMO, when all is said and done, she will be the primary decision-maker, everything will "flow through her" at some point in the future when it comes to the final word.

Now will that be good or bad moving forward? Fasten your seat-belts and lets see.

But fans can't keep complaining about the level of talent this team goes after, the lack thereof, or settles on, not committed to winning .. while at the same time being a "counter-productive" element towards any future efforts they may make to improve the team (direction) by telling quality players they'd be stupid to come here, don't do it.

Fans keep saying "They're gonna blow this, I just know it. They're going to continue to screw this thing up. Same-o, same-o. Nothing changes".

You could very well be right. Lets see.

If this off-season, and so far it has with the lack of comments that need to be made from Ownership, plays out like last off-season, then we know who is running things.....Katie and Troy.

[Bob Sheed]

If this off-season, and so far it has with the lack of comments that need to be made from Ownership, plays out like last off-season, then we know who is running things.....Katie and Troy.

You mean the ones who were in Switzerland with their cellphones on silent at the trade deadline last season?

Super.

[Redsfaithful]

I'd much rather have Daniel Snyder.

good god I wouldn't

[GAC]

I've said this before but I had a lot of fun in all those playoff seasons. Lot of happy Sundays, especially once my oldest son started watching. This isn't real life, and because I DO remember the 90s I think I appreciate the good times in an appropriate way.

I just want a diversion. When they are 2-14 I don't even get that, but luckily they'll be competitive again with Burrow.

Most fans will see their favorite teams win a handful of championships in their entire life, unless they are fans of teams from a place like New York, LA, San Francisco, etc. The Bengals are never going to compete year in, year out for a Super Bowl unless they strike it rich with a Peyton Manning type of QB. That's the same situation a bunch of teams and cities find themselves in.

Cincinnati sports fans should be happy right now. The Reds are about to finally play competitive baseball again and the Bengals are about to get a franchise QB. It's not so bad folks.

The problem is we live in Ohia and root for Ohia teams (lol).

Fans need to put the 90s behind them. They've allowed it to become an anchor, a "talking point", where that one lone decade (forever gone) still (in their minds) defines the Bengals and who they are. It's ridiculous. It's been 30 years ago (lol). I have to be honest. I've never seen a fan-base hold onto, wrap themselves around a decade like a python strangling the life out of it's prey, like some Bengal fans do with the 90s. It's like being sentenced to the Phantom Zone, to a dimension where you are forever, in misery, surrounded by the 90s with no escape. Nothing else matters or exists.

This article is from last year, and gives an "overall" evaluation of teams from 2010-18.... https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-decade-standings-how-the-league-ranks-from-2010-2018



12. Cincinnati: 75-67-2 Regular-season record (.528)

Last season's 2-14 record finally got them under .500 overall. But look around the league and do a "health evaluation" , and you'll find far more teams in worst shape then the Bengals. Half the NFL last year finished under .500. Lets talk Detroit, Chicago, NY (both), Miami, Tennessee, and Washington, just for starters. Look at the "battle" the Bengals had just to hold onto the #1 pick (lol). Yet listening to many Bengal fans, their team is an embarrassment and laughingstock of the league where no one wants to play. It's no contest. I just don't see it at that level.

A Super Bowl is a dim hope for a vast majority of the teams in the NFL. Simple fact. For most teams it's like "catching lightning in a bottle". In baseball anymore, it's about building for that small "window of opportunity" to take your shot because they don't come around that often. Same in the NFL IMO. The Bengals have had far more opportunities (post-season) then a lot of teams. The fact they were first round exits, though disappointing, shouldn't diminish that fact, nor lead fans to claim "Mike Brown isn't committed to winning a Super Bowl!". Do they realize how many teams fans could be saying that about?

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like Cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise QB. Look what Manning and Luck did for Indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a Cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a QB, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. IMO, that's just not so in Cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

But some don't want to give them that chance... because they're stuck in the 90s.

I have zero, no respect, for whiny ass Carson Palmer. I question Palmer's judgment, and sincerity, on what it takes to be "committed to winning a Super Bowl" looking at who he signed with (AZ). An organization with a pretty spotty record, numerous coaching changes, and issues. Mike Brown wasn't Palmer's worst enemy, nor, IMO, should he be Palmer's scapegoat. He had some success with both the Bengals and Cardinals, the talent was there, made a few post-season appearances with both (lackluster performances), but injuries set him back more then anything until it forced him into retirement. I don't see how any Bengal fan can support what this bitter ex-player is trying to accomplish with his "vendetta"? Unprofessional and childish IMO.

[GAC]

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

That "trying", that so-called "effort", has kept the Reds how many games under .500 and in last place in the division for how many years? Saying they're "ACTUALLY TRYING" really isn't saying much, nor have much weight to it IMO. What have they SHOWN. That's all that matters. Yeah, I like the signings. Don't mean to much to me until I actually see them accomplish something. IMO, that "window", if it's opening for the Reds, will also be closing real soon with FA's leaving over the course of the next season or so. We'll see how "committed" the Red's FO is. But they have BS'd their fans, been accused of being cheap and having their heads up their butts, just as much as the Bengals have over the years.

Until they actually prove otherwise, accomplish something, I wouldn't be holding the Reds up for an example for anyone (lol).

[North]

the problem is we live in ohia and root for ohia teams (lol).

Fans need to put the 90s behind them. They've allowed it to become an anchor, a "talking point", where that one lone decade (forever gone) still (in their minds) defines the bengals and who they are. It's ridiculous. It's been 30 years ago (lol). I have to be honest. I've never seen a fan-base hold onto, wrap themselves around a decade like a python strangling the life out of it's prey, like some bengal fans do with the 90s. It's like being sentenced to the phantom zone, to a dimension where you are forever, in misery, surrounded by the 90s with no escape. Nothing else matters or exists.

This article is from last year, and gives an "overall" evaluation of teams from 2010-18.... https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-decade-standings-how-the-league-ranks-from-2010-2018




last season's 2-14 record finally got them under .500 overall. But look around the league and do a "health evaluation" , and you'll find far more teams in worst shape then the bengals. Half the nfl last year finished under .500. Lets talk detroit, chicago, ny (both), miami, tennessee, and washington, just for starters. Look at the "battle" the bengals had just to hold onto the #1 pick (lol). Yet listening to many bengal fans, their team is an embarrassment and laughingstock of the league where no one wants to play. It's no contest. I just don't see it at that level.

A super bowl is a dim hope for a vast majority of the teams in the nfl. Simple fact. For most teams it's like "catching lightning in a bottle". In baseball anymore, it's about building for that small "window of opportunity" to take your shot because they don't come around that often. Same in the nfl imo. The bengals have had far more opportunities (post-season) then a lot of teams. The fact they were first round exits, though disappointing, shouldn't diminish that fact, nor lead fans to claim "mike brown isn't committed to winning a super bowl!". Do they realize how many teams fans could be saying that about?

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise qb. Look what manning and luck did for indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a qb, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. Imo, that's just not so in cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

But some don't want to give them that chance... Because they're stuck in the 90s.

I have zero, no respect, for whiny ass carson palmer. I question palmer's judgment, and sincerity, on what it takes to be "committed to winning a super bowl" lo:Doking at who he signed with (az). An organization with a pretty spotty record, numerous coaching changes, and issues. Mike brown wasn't palmer's worst enemy, nor, imo, should he be palmer's scapegoat. He had some success with both the bengals and cardinals, the talent was there, made a few post-season appearances with both (lackluster performances), but injuries set him back more then anything until it forced him into retirement. I don't see how any bengal fan can support what this bitter ex-player is trying to ac:dcomplish with his "vendetta"? Unprofessional and childish imo.


ok.

[Todd Gack]

That "trying", that so-called "effort", has kept the Reds how many games under .500 and in last place in the division for how many years? Saying they're "ACTUALLY TRYING" really isn't saying much, nor have much weight to it IMO. What have they SHOWN. That's all that matters. Yeah, I like the signings. Don't mean to much to me until I actually see them accomplish something. IMO, that "window", if it's opening for the Reds, will also be closing real soon with FA's leaving over the course of the next season or so. We'll see how "committed" the Red's FO is. But they have BS'd their fans, been accused of being cheap and having their heads up their butts, just as much as the Bengals have over the years.

Until they actually prove otherwise, accomplish something, I wouldn't be holding the Reds up for an example for anyone (lol).

Sounds like you’re more in the mold of “Super Bowl or Bust” more than anyone else here.

[Bob Sheed]

That "trying", that so-called "effort", has kept the Reds how many games under .500 and in last place in the division for how many years? Saying they're "ACTUALLY TRYING" really isn't saying much, nor have much weight to it IMO. What have they SHOWN. That's all that matters. Yeah, I like the signings. Don't mean to much to me until I actually see them accomplish something. IMO, that "window", if it's opening for the Reds, will also be closing real soon with FA's leaving over the course of the next season or so. We'll see how "committed" the Red's FO is. But they have BS'd their fans, been accused of being cheap and having their heads up their butts, just as much as the Bengals have over the years.

Until they actually prove otherwise, accomplish something, I wouldn't be holding the Reds up for an example for anyone (lol).

Last offseason (the one before this offseason) was the first time in 4 years that the Reds front office was even trying. Bryan Price's entire tenure was pretty much one big failed tank/rebuild.

With all due respect, GAC, you have no idea what you are talking about, in regard to Mike Brown.

https://pics.me.me/thumb_you-have-no-frame-of-reference-here-donny-20-youre-48730478.png

[Redhook]

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like Cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise QB. Look what Manning and Luck did for Indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a Cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a QB, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. IMO, that's just not so in Cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

Agree, it is a golden opportunity. Who are you referring to about passing up the opportunity to draft Burrow? What Bengals fan wouldn’t want him? I don’t know any. I think it’s a slam dunk that they’ll draft him.


But some don't want to give them that chance... because they're stuck in the 90s.

Again, who are you referring to? The media? As fans, we want Burrow, but we also want Mike Brown to give Burrow a good chance of succeeding. Not much to ask for. And, really really really easy to accomplish with the cap space they have. There’s absolutely no reason whatsoever why they shouldn’t sign a right tackle and guard. We’ll see though.

[Kingspoint]

The problem is we live in Ohia and root for Ohia teams (lol).

Fans need to put the 90s behind them. They've allowed it to become an anchor, a "talking point", where that one lone decade (forever gone) still (in their minds) defines the Bengals and who they are. It's ridiculous. It's been 30 years ago (lol). I have to be honest. I've never seen a fan-base hold onto, wrap themselves around a decade like a python strangling the life out of it's prey, like some Bengal fans do with the 90s. It's like being sentenced to the Phantom Zone, to a dimension where you are forever, in misery, surrounded by the 90s with no escape. Nothing else matters or exists.

This article is from last year, and gives an "overall" evaluation of teams from 2010-18.... https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-decade-standings-how-the-league-ranks-from-2010-2018




Last season's 2-14 record finally got them under .500 overall. But look around the league and do a "health evaluation" , and you'll find far more teams in worst shape then the Bengals. Half the NFL last year finished under .500. Lets talk Detroit, Chicago, NY (both), Miami, Tennessee, and Washington, just for starters. Look at the "battle" the Bengals had just to hold onto the #1 pick (lol). Yet listening to many Bengal fans, their team is an embarrassment and laughingstock of the league where no one wants to play. It's no contest. I just don't see it at that level.

A Super Bowl is a dim hope for a vast majority of the teams in the NFL. Simple fact. For most teams it's like "catching lightning in a bottle". In baseball anymore, it's about building for that small "window of opportunity" to take your shot because they don't come around that often. Same in the NFL IMO. The Bengals have had far more opportunities (post-season) then a lot of teams. The fact they were first round exits, though disappointing, shouldn't diminish that fact, nor lead fans to claim "Mike Brown isn't committed to winning a Super Bowl!". Do they realize how many teams fans could be saying that about?

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like Cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise QB. Look what Manning and Luck did for Indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a Cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a QB, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. IMO, that's just not so in Cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

But some don't want to give them that chance... because they're stuck in the 90s.

I have zero, no respect, for whiny ass Carson Palmer. I question Palmer's judgment, and sincerity, on what it takes to be "committed to winning a Super Bowl" looking at who he signed with (AZ). An organization with a pretty spotty record, numerous coaching changes, and issues. Mike Brown wasn't Palmer's worst enemy, nor, IMO, should he be Palmer's scapegoat. He had some success with both the Bengals and Cardinals, the talent was there, made a few post-season appearances with both (lackluster performances), but injuries set him back more then anything until it forced him into retirement. I don't see how any Bengal fan can support what this bitter ex-player is trying to accomplish with his "vendetta"? Unprofessional and childish IMO.

no playoff wins.

Keep pumping that organ.

[Bob Sheed]

Everything Burrow said today was great. He's gonna be really fun to root for as a Bengal. They better not let Carolina steal him away.

One thing though. He's a big fan of 5 man protection. As in, no help from the TEs or RBs. So here we go...

- If the Bengals do nothing to improve the offensive line, and go with 5 man protection, you might as well give Burrow a blindfold and cigarette with this oline.
- If they do nothing to improve the offensive line, and don't go with 5 man protection, now Burrow is out of his element and won't be as effective. THIS is what I think the Bengals will do.
- If the Bengals do actually improve the offensive line, that will truly be something to get excited about.

[Redhook]

Everything Burrow said today was great. He's gonna be really fun to root for as a Bengal. They better not let Carolina steal him away.

One thing though. He's a big fan of 5 man protection. As in, no help from the TEs or RBs. So here we go...

- If the Bengals do nothing to improve the offensive line, and go with 5 man protection, you might as well give Burrow a blindfold and cigarette with this oline.
- If they do nothing to improve the offensive line, and don't go with 5 man protection, now Burrow is out of his element and won't be as effective. THIS is what I think the Bengals will do.
- If the Bengals do actually improve the offensive line, that will truly be something to get excited about.

Of all the offseasons in the history of this franchise, this is one of the most important. To not improve the line would be devastating to the fans, Burrow, his teammates, and the teams future staying in Cincinnati. With the money available, it’s nearly impossible to not only address, but to really improve the line. But, we know what we’re up against.

If they just put in a little effort, not even a full 100%, the Bengals could easily win 6-8 next year. And, the following year, playoffs. It’s so easy in the NFL if you try and have a brain.

[Todd Gack]

Everything Burrow said today was great. He's gonna be really fun to root for as a Bengal. They better not let Carolina steal him away.

One thing though. He's a big fan of 5 man protection. As in, no help from the TEs or RBs. So here we go...

- If the Bengals do nothing to improve the offensive line, and go with 5 man protection, you might as well give Burrow a blindfold and cigarette with this oline.
- If they do nothing to improve the offensive line, and don't go with 5 man protection, now Burrow is out of his element and won't be as effective. THIS is what I think the Bengals will do.
- If the Bengals do actually improve the offensive line, that will truly be something to get excited about.

Unfortunately, Zac will call the plays or else there’d be zero use of him as HC. I wish he wasn’t the HC but we’re stuck with him.

[WrongVerb]

Of all the offseasons in the history of this franchise, this is one of the most important. To not improve the line would be devastating to the fans, Burrow, his teammates, and the teams future staying in Cincinnati. With the money available, it’s nearly impossible to not only address, but to really improve the line. But, we know what we’re up against.

If they just put in a little effort, not even a full 100%, the Bengals could easily win 6-8 next year. And, the following year, playoffs. It’s so easy in the NFL if you try and have a brain.

That assumes the Bengals primary goal is winning football games.

[Bob Sheed]

That assumes the Bengals primary goal is winning football games.

Not necessarily.

During Mike Brown's tenure, the Bengals have won plenty of football games. Even made the playoffs quite a few years in a row there. They can still win games without having winning as the primary goal of the front office. Credit the parity of the NFL for that, just like we credit the parity of the NFL for getting a crack at drafting Joe Burrow.

The million dollar question is, can Burrow overcome Mike Brown's handicaps. It's the elephant in the room. Even if many misunderstand exactly what that elephant is (and they do), it's definitely the elephant they are warning Burrow about. Nevermind the stupid Steeler fans and their "his career will be ruined" nonsense. That's a strawman, easy to discount, and not at all what ex-players are warning Burrow about.

If Burrow has the talent, he will do well here, barring major injury. But Burrow doesn't want to just "do well here" any more than any other super competitive champion wants to "just do well". He wants to dominate. Succeed. Super Bowls. All of it. I love these kinds of players.

He's in for a rude awakening though. Because ownership does not share his competitive fire. That lineman protecting Burrow? That coach calling the plays? It's more important how loyal he is, than how talented he is. And again, that's the elephant, right there.

[GAC]

Last offseason (the one before this offseason) was the first time in 4 years that the Reds front office was even trying. Bryan Price's entire tenure was pretty much one big failed tank/rebuild.

Bob .... Todd said the Reds are putting forth the effort and actually trying to win, and it's a beautiful thing (unlike the Bengals). And what was my response to Todd again Bob? LOL


With all due respect, GAC, you have no idea what you are talking about, in regard to Mike Brown.

Where have I disagreed with you on Mike Brown Bob? Just not gonna keep beating this dead horse and livin' in the 90s. They have a solid opportunity here, going into '20, with a transition to new leadership making the primary decisions, and I'm simply willing to see what happens, give them that shot. Not costing me anything (lol).

You want to keep ranting about Mike Brown and regurgitating the same talking points and whats going to happen, fine. We'll find out.

[Bob Sheed]

Bob .... Todd said the Reds are putting forth the effort and actually trying to win, and it's a beautiful thing (unlike the Bengals). And what was my response to Todd again Bob? LOL



Where have I disagreed with you on Mike Brown Bob? Just not gonna keep beating this dead horse and livin' in the 90s. They have a solid opportunity here, going into '20, with a transition to new leadership making the primary decisions, and I'm simply willing to see what happens, give them that shot. Not costing me anything (lol).

You want to keep ranting about Mike Brown and regurgitating the same talking points and whats going to happen, fine. We'll find out.

You are a classic case of someone who misunderstands what exactly is going on down at PBS. No, it's not the 1990s. Back then, Mike Brown was minimalist in both cap related and non-cap related expenditures. Now the NFL makes everyone spend to the cap. Because of.... Mike Brown.

He still spends them minimum on non-cap related expenditures. And yes, that severely handicaps the team, from top to bottom. Sprinkle in some cronyism, nepotism, and you have yourself some Bengal Stew right there. If that thrills you.

So, to review, you're whole "this isn't the 1990s, so everything is hunky dory" strawman, ranks right up there with all the Steelers fans saying "Burrow's career will be ruined here".

It has no place in rational Bengals discussion.

[Redsfaithful]

Tobin says they will spend in free agency:

https://twitter.com/Ben_Baby/status/1232346177552748545


Duke Tobin on free agency: "It's not a question of whether we're going to spend."

[WVRed]

Tobin says they will spend in free agency:

https://twitter.com/Ben_Baby/status/1232346177552748545

Question is will anyone want to sign to come here?

[Bob Sheed]

Question is will anyone want to sign to come here?

Burrow might be a pretty good selling point.

[Kingspoint]

Tobin says they will spend in free agency:

https://twitter.com/Ben_Baby/status/1232346177552748545

There can't be any Bobby Hart's or Andre Smith's or Dre Kirkpatrick's. Spending doesn't amount to anything, if it's spent poorly.

[GAC]

You are a classic case of someone who misunderstands what exactly is going on down at PBS. No, it's not the 1990s. Back then, Mike Brown was minimalist in both cap related and non-cap related expenditures. Now the NFL makes everyone spend to the cap. Because of.... Mike Brown.

Points already brought up, discussed, and agreed upon how many times now Bob on this thread? The fact that I don't allow myself to get all emotionally tied up inside, ready to explode, over any sports franchise I love/follow does not mean I'm naive when it comes to the actions of the respective management/ownership. Whether it's the Reds, Browns, or Bengals. You can't live in Ohio and follow these teams for over 50 years and not know what's going on with these three friggin organizations (lol).

It just seems to bother you, really get under your skin, that there are fans ... who have experienced the same frustration, heartache, and pain you have over the years. You're no one special ... who are simply holding out hope and wanting better things for this franchise ... and see it possibly in this transition of power and the opportunity this draft holds. That's all.

So what is the problem again Bob?

[WVRed]

Burrow might be a pretty good selling point.

That may be, but in addition to playing for a penny pinching owner who doesn’t care about winning, Cincinnati isn’t a FA destination.

I hope they spend, but my expectations are low.

[Bob Sheed]

So what is the problem again Bob?

That you're over here, as a Browns fan, trying to tell people how to be Bengals fans.

Which is fine... free country and all that. But you do so with half-truths and various other misinformation. Then, when I tell you what the actual truth is, you say "yeah we know, heard it a million times," then go back to citing your half-truths.

But my all time favorite, is when you pulled out the "love it or leave it" card, as a Browns fan, in a Bengals thread.

I don't tell you how to be a fan for your team. That would be crazy. But I will say this. If you don't want to hear points reiterated for the millionth time, then quit spouting falsehoods about said points for the millionth time.

It's not like I just come out of left field with them, void of context. It's always in response to someone saying stupid crap like "Mike Brown isn't cheap...he spends to the cap every season!!!!111 and derp derp playoffs!!!11"

So yeah, the problem, (and there isn't really a problem, just using your words), is that in regard to the Bengals, you don't know what you're talking about. And when I have the inclination, I will correct you. Even if it is for the millionth time. Trust me, it baffles me more than anyone else here. Mike Brown's scam is not exactly rocket science.

- - - Updated - - -


That may be, but in addition to playing for a penny pinching owner who doesn’t care about winning, Cincinnati isn’t a FA destination.

I hope they spend, but my expectations are low.

As Marvin Lewis used to say, "I see better than I hear."

[GAC]

That you're over here, as a Browns fan, trying to tell people how to be Bengals fans.

Wrong Bob. Call me a loyal Ohioan (born and raised). Yeah, the Browns are my #1 team; but only because they were the only team that existed at the time (lol). But I have avidly been a fan, and followed the Bengals - a divided household of brothers - since they came into the league. That's a long time Bob.

I've been participating in these discussions for years. And not as a Brown's fan. At least that's not how I see it, or am approaching it. But if there are those in this discussion that are uneasy about me participating, then say the word, no hard feelings, and I'll disappear never to reappear. But I'm hear to discuss a team I've followed for a long time - not being naive or ignorant of it's history with ownership, nor the anger and frustration he's brought - but here with other Bengal fans, like any other fan, discussing and trying to figure out what this team should be doing to move forward.


But you do so with half-truths and various other misinformation.

But my all time favorite, is when you pulled out the "love it or leave it" card, as a Browns fan, in a Bengals thread.

I don't tell you how to be a fan for your team. That would be crazy. But I will say this. If you don't want to hear points reiterated for the millionth time, then quit spouting falsehoods about said points for the millionth time.

Lets clear this up Bob ... concerning Mike Brown (ownership) .... what half-truths, falsehoods, and misinformation have I been spreading? And what have I been saying that you have to correct me on?

And I'm not telling you, or anyone, on how to be a fan. If you think Mike Brown is gonna scam you again, then fine. At some point the discussion has to progress further then ownership rants.

[Bob Sheed]

Wrong Bob. Call me a loyal Ohioan (born and raised). Yeah, the Browns are my #1 team; but only because they were the only team that existed at the time (lol). But I have avidly been a fan, and followed the Bengals - a divided household of brothers - since they came into the league. That's a long time Bob.

I've been participating in these discussions for years. And not as a Brown's fan. At least that's not how I see it, or am approaching it. But if there are those in this discussion that are uneasy about me participating, then say the word, no hard feelings, and I'll disappear never to reappear. But I'm hear to discuss a team I've followed for a long time - not being naive or ignorant of it's history with ownership, nor the anger and frustration he's brought - but here with other Bengal fans, like any other fan, discussing and trying to figure out what this team should be doing to move forward.



Lets clear this up Bob ... concerning Mike Brown (ownership) .... what half-truths, falsehoods, and misinformation have I been spreading? And what have I been saying that you have to correct me on?

And I'm not telling you, or anyone, on how to be a fan. If you think Mike Brown is gonna scam you again, then fine. At some point the discussion has to progress further then ownership rants.

The only time I comment on Mike Brown these days, is when someone says something in that regard that is simply not true.

Because there's nothing new to talk about there, I agree.

But I think I'm even done with doing that. The next time someone says something blatantly false as far as Mike Brown's scam goes, I think just a canned response



You're wrong. Go read a book.

may have to do.

[North]

Look at that speed, Mike, just look at that speed ! :D

364-pound (lineman) Mekhi Becton turns heads with 5.10-second 40-yard dash at NFL combine

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2020/02/28/mekhi-becton-turns-heads-nfl-combine-40-yard-dash-time/4910182002/

[Kingspoint]

What are the odds that the Bengals trade either their 2nd or 3rd Round picks?

A normal franchise with a real G.M. would trade away both of these coveted picks if they had the same needs the Bengals have. They could receive a proven Starter, another pick in the same round, and an extra 5th or 6th Round pick. That's four starters for two plus two more picks to be used on LB's, G's, WR's, C's, RB's, TE's, ST. You aren't going to find a decent CB, S, DL, OT or QB in the 5th/6th, but the other positions you can, where a decent LB, RB, TE and WR doubles as a quality ST player, and with roster size, practice squad and salary cap all increasing, they can afford to trade for the established Starters.

Anyway, I give them a 1% chance they trade either one of them. Remember Jimmy Johnson's words: Nobody even bothers to call Mike Brown because he's always trying to screw them over and the call is a waste of time [which is why the Bengals are one of only two frachises who have all of their future picks, no more, no less (Chargers being the other....Rivers will rejuvenate his career in Indy, a career with several excellent years left if it's continued in Indiana)].

[GAC]

What are the odds that the Bengals trade either their 2nd or 3rd Round picks?

A normal franchise with a real G.M. would trade away both of these coveted picks if they had the same needs the Bengals have. They could receive a proven Starter, another pick in the same round, and an extra 5th or 6th Round pick. That's four starters for two plus two more picks to be used on LB's, G's, WR's, C's, RB's, TE's, ST. You aren't going to find a decent CB, S, DL, OT or QB in the 5th/6th, but the other positions you can, where a decent LB, RB, TE and WR doubles as a quality ST player, and with roster size, practice squad and salary cap all increasing, they can afford to trade for the established Starters.

Anyway, I give them a 1% chance they trade either one of them. Remember Jimmy Johnson's words: Nobody even bothers to call Mike Brown because he's always trying to screw them over and the call is a waste of time [which is why the Bengals are one of only two frachises who have all of their future picks, no more, no less (Chargers being the other....Rivers will rejuvenate his career in Indy, a career with several excellent years left if it's continued in Indiana)].

The Bengals are in a very valuable situation with the first pick of the 2nd Round (33rd). That means you got first crack at any player who didn't go 1st Round. And yeah, that means a lot... https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/2/24/21132843/2020-nfl-draft-bengals-second-round-trade-options


In that way, the pick holds a little extra value. Teams who covet a player that remains on the board after the first round has ended have a little extra time to consider making a trade and the Bengals hold the most valuable position of the day. The Bengals could get a great player with that pick, but maybe they could do even better by trading it.

JMO, but I wouldn't even consider trading that pick till it reaches it's "peak value" (end 1st Rd). Other then Burrow, IMO, the Bengal's top priority is the OL. There is a solid class coming out, and very good chance one will be available for that pick. The only way I trade away that pick is if they're able to fill a critical need for the upcoming season. But if one of those OL players is available, I'd have to think long and hard before trading it away. But at least you're in the position (unique) to have those options coming your way.

The Bengals need to be smart, while also aggressive here. Sorry if I'm a cock-eyed optimist that sees they can greatly improve their fortunes (direction) with this draft. It all comes down to will they allow Tobin, Taylor, and staff, to do their job and call the shots?

[GAC]

The only time I comment on Mike Brown these days, is when someone says something in that regard that is simply not true.

Because there's nothing new to talk about there, I agree.

But I think I'm even done with doing that. The next time someone says something blatantly false as far as Mike Brown's scam goes, I think just a canned response



may have to do.

I agree Bob. But I'm still trying to figure out what misinformation or falsehoods I said about Mike Brown and his tenure as owner? You've created a "disagreement" between us that doesn't (or shouldn't) exist (lol). I can quote myself numerous times in these discussions where I not only agreed with people's position on Brown's tightfisted handling of this organization, but called him every name in the book myself (lol). I know exactly what he has done to this organization. No argument.

But if Mike is transitioning, handing power over - if that's true - you'll see it in this upcoming draft. I don't think Mike will ever be totally out of the picture till you know when. But as far as who is making the decisions anymore? I think we are seeing a changing of the guard, which is good.

The BIG question is how much did that old guard pass on to the new and influence them? Valid question and concern. And the only way we're going to find out is fasten your seat-belts and see what they do in this draft. They're on the clock, and believe me, we'll know one way or another.

[membengal]

Kingspoint, they trade back in the second all the time, what are you talking about? They just did that last year.

[Hillsdale87]

Kingspoint, they trade back in the second all the time, what are you talking about? They just did that last year.

They did on 2017 with Mixon too. They should trade down if the right opportunity is there, but who knows how the first round will play out. If Murray or Queen fall, they should take a LB, but if not they have a lot of options. The nice thing is there's a whole day between rounds 1 and 2, so there will be plenty of time to work out a deal of they want to


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[Kingspoint]

Kingspoint, they trade back in the second all the time, what are you talking about? They just did that last year.

I'm talking about this being different because several teams should be interested. Please don't act like it's a common thing for them to play the draft and not let the draft play them. What did they gain with their trade down in the 2nd Round? Nothing, if I recall, while they completely ignored needs last year. Last year's draft and free agency was a complete failure. I wouldn't point to that one as an example of doing things correctly. You still didn't answer the question, though. What are the chances that they trade either pick? I maintain that it's 1%.

[Kingspoint]

They did on 2017 with Mixon too. They should trade down if the right opportunity is there, but who knows how the first round will play out. If Murray or Queen fall, they should take a LB, but if not they have a lot of options. The nice thing is there's a whole day between rounds 1 and 2, so there will be plenty of time to work out a deal of they want to


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There is no "should be". As you said, everyone has to wait until the 1st Round is over with before seeing what trade opportunities open up. It will vary from team to team. The Bengals should have a plan in place where they obtain multiple 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Round picks, while acquiring extra picks for next season, too. This team lacks talent and needs help, not just from the draft, but help from established Starters from other teams via trade.

This fantasy world where fans think the Bengals will win 7+ games just because they have Joe Burrow will be singing the same tune next season as the Bengals have another Top-4 pick if they don't change the way they did things last season by leaps and bounds. Everything they did last off-season was wrong. Everything they did during the season was wrong. Everything they have done so far this season has been wrong. Still waiting for things to be different.

[membengal]

They traded back last year in the second last year and got an extra 4th and 6th. They traded down the year before in the first and got Cordy Glenn in the deal. Hillsdale mentioned the trade back in 2017. Literally, the last three years they’ve traded back to get either extra draft capital or a player. You made it sound like they never do that and that no one would trade with them. That’s abjectly factually a lie.

[Bob Sheed]

Jimmy Johnson went 2-14 his first year.

They drafted Aikman, then Aikman got hurt so they drafted high again.

Then they hit the jackpot on pretty much the entire draft.

Then they were perennial playoff/Super Bowl contenders.

That would be a nice trajectory for the Bengals.

[WrongVerb]

Jimmy Johnson went 2-14 his first year.

They drafted Aikman, then Aikman got hurt so they drafted high again.

Then they hit the jackpot on pretty much the entire draft.

Then they were perennial playoff/Super Bowl contenders.

That would be a nice trajectory for the Bengals.

They also traded Herschel Walker for a boatload of picks.

[Bob Sheed]

They also traded Herschel Walker for a boatload of picks.

Yep.

It would be like if Katie and Troy would have traded Green, Dalton and Adkins at the trade deadline, instead of hanging out in Switzerland with their phones on silent.

[Hillsdale87]

Yep.

It would be like if Katie and Troy would have traded Green, Dalton and Adkins at the trade deadline, instead of hanging out in Switzerland with their phones on silent.

I don't think there would have been much of a market for Dalton at the deadline. I'm glad they kept Green as long as they sign him for a couple years. Atkins though probably should have been traded


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingspoint]

They traded back last year in the second last year and got an extra 4th and 6th. They traded down the year before in the first and got Cordy Glenn in the deal. Hillsdale mentioned the trade back in 2017. Literally, the last three years they’ve traded back to get either extra draft capital or a player. You made it sound like they never do that and that no one would trade with them. That’s abjectly factually a lie.
What did they get with the 2nd Round pick last year that they traded down for? What they did the two years before doesn't matter because it was Mike Brown's last two years of running the football operations, of which I was happy with him as he was trying to do things every year he hadn't done before, such as the trade for Glenn, though had he kept Whitworth, he never would have the whole Glenn mess to deal with.

[Hillsdale87]

What did they get with the 2nd Round pick last year that they traded down for? What they did the two years before doesn't matter because it was Mike Brown's last two years of running the football operations, of which I was happy with him as he was trying to do things every year he hadn't done before, such as the trade for Glenn, though had he kept Whitworth, he never would have the whole Glenn mess to deal with.

Whether they got good value for it is irrelevant to your point. You implied that the Bengals wouldn't be willing to trade down in the 2nd, but they clearly are. Their inability to capitalize is frustrating, but they do it, and I'd expect them to be ready to do it again this year.

Also, where did you hear that Mike Brown was running football operations, but isn't now? Has this been reported? Any draft decisions and trades almost certainly go through Tobin.


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[GAC]

Jimmy Johnson went 2-14 his first year.

They drafted Aikman, then Aikman got hurt so they drafted high again.

Then they hit the jackpot on pretty much the entire draft.

Then they were perennial playoff/Super Bowl contenders.

That would be a nice trajectory for the Bengals.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/dreamy-bussiness-partners-keep-fingers-crossed-believe-good-luc-people-generation-wish-concept-two-luck-successfully-signed-132847894.jpg

All we can do Bob. I've never been to a Bengal game. I just went to my first Brown's game two years ago (lol). I wanted to go down to a Bengal's game this last season, but my first year of retirement has been somewhat hectic (lol).

We'll get tickets and go next year Bob! I'll even let you make the sign! LOL

[GAC]

Dalton has value. The question is whether they are able to capitalize on it (right moment, right time).

[Bob Sheed]

- Flip Dalton for a 4th.
- I wouldn't trade down for pick #33. That's like having 2 1st round picks.
- The Bengals have a LOT of cap money to spend, especially after Dalton is off the books. The absolutely have to fill gaps via free agency.
-Burrow didn't really take off until they went with a 5 man front. That would get him killed at this point.
- Too bad Cordy Glenn doesn't want to play. They sure could use him.
- Letting Whitworth walk and whiffing on Ogbuehi/Fisher absolutely crushed the offense. They are still reeling from it.

[North]

And Zeitler...

[Kingspoint]

Whether they got good value for it is irrelevant to your point. You implied that the Bengals wouldn't be willing to trade down in the 2nd, but they clearly are. Their inability to capitalize is frustrating, but they do it, and I'd expect them to be ready to do it again this year.

Also, where did you hear that Mike Brown was running football operations, but isn't now? Has this been reported? Any draft decisions and trades almost certainly go through Tobin.


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I don't need Marvin Lewis or Zac Taylor or Geoff Hobson to tell me what's not going on. I know exactly who is running things at all times based on the decisions that are made.

[Bob Sheed]

per nfl.com, many are speculating that the Bengals will be heavily involved in free agency.

"It's really the opposite of what the narrative has always been."

That... would be pretty cool, considering all the holes they have in the roster.

I'm imagining a world now where the Bengals front office remembers that games are won and lost in the trenches, and invests heavily in the offensive and defensive lines.

A world where they trade Dalton not for a 4th round draft pick, but rather for a proven middle of the road NFL starter (maybe with one year left on his contract), which is exactly what Dalton is.

A world where they creatively rebuild the roster to go from 2-14 to playoff contention, barring major injury.

[North]

per nfl.com, many are speculating that the Bengals will be heavily involved in free agency.

"It's really the opposite of what the narrative has always been."

That... would be pretty cool, considering all the holes they have in the roster.

I'm imagining a world now where the Bengals front office remembers that games are won and lost in the trenches, and invests heavily in the offensive and defensive lines.

A world where they trade Dalton not for a 4th round draft pick, but rather for a proven middle of the road NFL starter (maybe with one year left on his contract), which is exactly what Dalton is.

A world where they creatively rebuild the roster to go from 2-14 to playoff contention, barring major injury.

I'll believe it when I see it.

It's part of their m.o. to say they are interested in this or that useful FA, but by gum they signed with somebody else.

[Kingspoint]

Mike Brown doesn't franchise-tag players like A.J. He signs them to big contracts. If the contract doesn't get done, it's just more evidence he's not running things. It also would have gotten done four months ago. Katie and Troy are running things. Their idea of "participating in Free Agency" will make Mike's garbage-sifting seem like "Diamond" Jim Brady.

[Boss-Hog]

Mike Brown doesn't franchise-tag players like A.J. He signs them to big contracts. If the contract doesn't get done, it's just more evidence he's not running things. It also would have gotten done four months ago. Katie and Troy are running things. Their idea of "participating in Free Agency" will make Mike's garbage-sifting seem like "Diamond" Jim Brady.I think you're buying into this idea that Mike Brown gave up control just last year way too much. It was reported locally years ago that a transition had been occurring, and it completely coincides with Tobin, Katie and Troy having more of a public voice on the rare times the front office speaks publicly. I'm sure it was set up similarly to what Paul Brown did with Mike and Pete as he got older. By all accounts Tobin has been the primary person in charge of the draft since that bizarre 2011 offseason when Marvin was brought back, and it's pretty obvious Mike still holds the final say on all matters but is more or less comfortable delegating the day-to-day decisions to his kids plus Troy and Duke. I'm sure this all sounded like news to you when the first time you heard about this was last year during the coaching search because it was the first major decision that group had been responsible for since Mike started transitioning control, but it definitely wasn't news locally.

I think you're very wrong if you think this just started or became official last offseason, as you keep implying. Even if this is being done so you can try to pinpoint the current state of the franchise on his heirs and not Mike, if he just gave up control last year, how does that explain the 2016, 2017 and 2018 offseason decisions that led to three straight losing seasons?

[Bob Sheed]

I think you're buying into this idea that Mike Brown gave up control just last year way too much. It was reported locally years ago that a transition had been occurring, and it completely coincides with Tobin, Katie and Troy having more of a public voice on the rare times the front office speaks publicly. I'm sure it was set up similarly to what Paul Brown did with Mike and Pete as he got older. By all accounts. Tobin has been the primary person in charge of the draft since that bizarre 2011 offseason when Marvin was brought back, and it's pretty obvious Mike still holds the final say on all matters but is more or less comfortable delegating the day-to-day decisions to his kids plus Troy and Duke. I'm sure this all sounded like news to you when the first time you heard about this was last year during the coaching search because it was the first major decision that group had been responsible for since Mike started transitioning control, but it definitely wasn't news locally.

I think you're very wrong if you think this just started or became official last offseason, as you keep implying. Even if this is being done so you can try to pinpoint the current state of the franchise on his heirs and not Mike, if he just gave up control last year, how does that explain the 2016, 2017 and 2018 offseason decisions that led to three straight losing seasons?

So, the concerning part is pretty straight-forward.

Katie and Troy have even less of a clue than Mike Brown, and that's saying something. Remember... these are the two that were in Switzerland at the trade deadline with their phones on silent.

The hope was, when Katie and Troy took over, that they would bring in people that know what they are doing to run football operations. If that "people" is Duke Tobin, then that explains why the franchise is in an even worse spot then they were when Mike Brown was running things.

Point being, Mike Brown isn't the only person in the world that can shamefully operate a professional football franchise. If Katie and Troy don't bring in outside help, then it doesn't matter when or if they took over for Mike Brown, because the results will be equally bad if not worse.

Duke Tobin... as a psuedo-GM, he's like the Hue Jackson of head coaching.
The Geoff Hobson of journalistic integrity.
The Katie and Troy of Football Operations
The Bob Bedinghaus of County Commissioners
The Bobby Hart of offensive linemen
The Zac Taylor of offensive "strategery"

Loyalty over merit...
Absolute poison to quantifiable tangible results.

Zac Taylor is the only one of the bunch who even has the remote possibility of being in employed elsewhere in the NFL, and after another year or two here, that ship will sail too. Zac's biggest problem is his dad doesn't have a steakburger franchise to move on to after shaming himself out of the NFL.

I really really hope that Mike Brown is still running things. Because if he did indeed relinquish control to Katie and Troy years ago, and these are the results?

Oh man... Happy Same Year then, I guess. :party:

[Boss-Hog]

Bob, never once did I defend Katie/Troy/Duke/Paul as people that know how to successfully run an NFL franchise. In fact, given who Katie (and to a lesser extent Paul) learned the ropes from, I'd say the odds are against it. I was simply dismissing this notion that Mike Brown was responsible for all these good personnel moves prior to last year when he went from calling 100% of the shots to 0%.

To respond to one of your points, I don't recall reading anything that said Katie and Troy had their phones on silent during the trade deadline. I recall reading that members of their front office were vacationing in Switzerland following the London game, and I agree with your implication it was Katie and Troy, but I never saw anything that suggested they shut off communication with the rest of the world. More importantly, the Bengals were available to make trades if they wanted to through Duke and Mike; the issue is that they had no interest in doing so. I think that was a ridiculous stance to take, and I said so at the time, but it's disingenuous to pretend they didn't make trades for the reason you mentioned.

[Bob Sheed]

That's fair.

I added the "phones on silent" bit, not to say that they actually had their phones on silent. (How could that possibly even be verified?) But rather to say that they should have been dealing at the deadline, and instead, it was reported that although many teams were interested in doing so, the Bengals were not.

And now we see what looks to be another all too familiar scene. Other teams starting to make deals to improve their respective rosters. Other teams.

[Bob Sheed]

Williams from the Redskins would be a big improvement at RT.

[Kingspoint]

I think you're buying into this idea that Mike Brown gave up control just last year way too much. It was reported locally years ago that a transition had been occurring, and it completely coincides with Tobin, Katie and Troy having more of a public voice on the rare times the front office speaks publicly. I'm sure it was set up similarly to what Paul Brown did with Mike and Pete as he got older. By all accounts Tobin has been the primary person in charge of the draft since that bizarre 2011 offseason when Marvin was brought back, and it's pretty obvious Mike still holds the final say on all matters but is more or less comfortable delegating the day-to-day decisions to his kids plus Troy and Duke. I'm sure this all sounded like news to you when the first time you heard about this was last year during the coaching search because it was the first major decision that group had been responsible for since Mike started transitioning control, but it definitely wasn't news locally.

I think you're very wrong if you think this just started or became official last offseason, as you keep implying. Even if this is being done so you can try to pinpoint the current state of the franchise on his heirs and not Mike, if he just gave up control last year, how does that explain the 2016, 2017 and 2018 offseason decisions that led to three straight losing seasons?

Yes. I saw each of the batons being handed off one at a time beginning with Katie handling the contract negotiations. Just saying that the final "football operations", the things that a G.M. does, not the things that a President does, were handed over with the Marvin Lewis decision.

[Boss-Hog]

Yes. I saw each of the batons being handed off one at a time beginning with Katie handling the contract negotiations. Just saying that the final "football operations", the things that a G.M. does, not the things that a President does, were handed over with the Marvin Lewis decision.Maybe. Hypothetically, I think if Tobin wanted Burrow but Mike did not then Burrow would not be a Bengal. I suspect Tobin runs the personnel pretty much how Mike wants, so I'd expect something like that is pretty rare, but if it happened, the owner is always going to have final say. Fortunately, this is one of the few times I'm in agreement with Mike Brown who's always been in love with QBs, so it's a moot point in this instance.

[GAC]

From what I've read, Katie has been handling the contract negotiations for many, many years. And is well-respected around the league and considered an experienced, tough negotiator. Whether that's good or bad I don't know (lol).

[Sea Ray]

From what I've read, Katie has been handling the contract negotiations for many, many years. And is well-respected around the league and considered an experienced, tough negotiator. Whether that's good or bad I don't know (lol).

The Bengals have always been tough negotiators. That hasn't been their problem

[North]

Pretty good read:

Predicting the fate of every Bengals free agent
Two former first-round picks and a lot of other players have likely seen their last days in a Bengals uniform. Before free agency begins, we predicted what will happen with every one of Cincinnati’s free agents.

By John Sheeran@John__Sheeran Mar 7, 2020, 7:00am EST.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/3/7/21166036/2020-nfl-free-ageny-bengals-free-agents-predictions

[GAC]

The Bengals have always been tough negotiators. That hasn't been their problem

I know that. I was just kind of following up on what Boss just said, and adding that Katie's been in charge of negotiating Bengal contracts for a long time. She's not new to the scene or inexperienced. She's respected, tough. So some of the finger-pointing can go at her on this issue if one wants.

I'm sure we all have read this 2014 article on Mike Brown saying he has been ceding control to the "committee"; but I like what this GM states .... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000367536/article/mike-brown-ceding-bengals-control-to-marvin-lewis


"I don't know if anyone really knows (the organizational structure) -- I really don't," one AFC general manager told NFL Media's Albert Breer this offseason. "Because that family keeps it close to the vest."

It's clear that the Brown family has begun to rely more heavily on Lewis and his coaching staff for personnel decisions, while Blackburn handles contract matters.

And many are still trying to figure out who is really running the show? Yeah, it's assumed or accepted that the "committee" is doing so.... but as long as Mike has breath in his body, is on the premises, it's certainly justifiable to believe he is still the final word (lol). It was his decision two years ago to fire close friend Lewis.

When the "dust" settles, I think Katie was groomed to be that final word. JMO.

Mike Brown has inflicted some very deep "wounds", sown years of mistrust. Not an easy thing to get over, even if there has been a changing of the guard.

[North]

Mike Brown has inflicted some very deep "wounds", sown years of mistrust. Not an easy thing to get over, even if there has been a changing of the guard.

Yep. Plenty of anecdotes out there about other clubs who find it worthless to discuss trades with the Bengals.

[Kingspoint]

Last year's brilliant Free Agency job by Bengals' Ownership continues to pay off as zero compensatory picks are awarded to the Bengals today.

[Bob Sheed]

Free agency is here again.

And as usual, the Bengals shoot out of the gate, firing on all cylinders.

You can almost taste the sense of urgency from the front office, coming off of a disappointing season.

[Rdirtypirates]

Free agency is here again.

And as usual, the Bengals shoot out of the gate, firing on all cylinders.

You can almost taste the sense of urgency from the front office, coming off of a disappointing season.

Hate to say it, but you are right. I have zero confidence in this organization. Just once it would be nice to be wrong about this ownership group and see them deviate from the norm. Maybe this is the year since it is day one, but nothing I have heard gives me hope.

[Todd Gack]

Free agency is here again.

And as usual, the Bengals shoot out of the gate, firing on all cylinders.

You can almost taste the sense of urgency from the front office, coming off of a disappointing season.

Don't worry: They'll resign the homophobic wife beater for 14 million a year, one of their CB for 10-12 million a year, and a couple of other guys to max out their salary cap and proclaim victory like they always do.

[Bob Sheed]

Back when there was no cap floor and they were pocketing money not spent on the cap, I didn't like it, but at least I understood it. They were being cheap.

But these days? It's more like autopilot. Which makes no sense. These days they just re-up a few of their own, sign a few scrubs, and call it an off-season.

Why not try? They have to spend like everyone else now. Is it really that difficult? To try?

That family... I swear...

[North]

Quarterback AJ McCarron will not become an unrestricted NFL free agent on Wednesday, when his current contract with the Houston Texans was due to expire.

Via his Instagram account, the former Alabama All-American announced that he was returning to the Texans for the 2020 season.

https://www.al.com/sports/2020/03/aj-mccarron-off-the-nfl-free-agent-market.html

[Redhook]

They’re seriously not mentioned anywhere regarding any free agent. It’s incredible. They’ll have to restructure Bobby Hart’s contract and resign Andre Smith for the 7th time just to reach the cap floor.

[Kingspoint]

Rotoworld's comments:

Cincinnati spending $53 million in free agency is as rare as rocking horse manure, so it's time to celebrate Bengals fans. Reader was a hot commodity on the open market because he's young (26) and has flashed potential, particularly as a run-defender. Last season, the Bengals allowed the most rushing yards per game (149) and were 28th in run defense DVOA. Reader alone should make a difference there and has some potential for further development as a quarterback chaser.

[Hillsdale87]

Added Trae Waynes too. Hopefully get a LB as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Todd Gack]

Welp, these last two signings scream of “We whiffed on our main objectives it we’ve got to spend it on SOMETHING” signings. The local media and idiots fans will parrot the same. Everyone in Minnesota just spit out their beer reading Waynes’s salary. Reader is more solid but our LB core is still awful. I’m

[Bob Sheed]

Welp, these last two signings scream of “We whiffed on our main objectives it we’ve got to spend it on SOMETHING” signings. The local media and idiots fans will parrot the same. Everyone in Minnesota just spit out their beer reading Waynes’s salary. Reader is more solid but our LB core is still awful. I’m

I disagree.

Giving Bobby Hart a new contract last offseason falls in line with what you are saying, and i was right there with you.

But these two signings are upgrades to be sure.

They do still have a lot of holes but let's see what happens with Dalton. My concern is, everyone knows the Bengals have to move on from Dalton. So the Bengals won't get any takers and won't release him until the last minute when there is no one good left to use that freed up cap money on.

I'm guessing that's the Bears strategy, anyway. And it will probably work.

[Betterread]

Welp, these last two signings scream of “We whiffed on our main objectives it we’ve got to spend it on SOMETHING” signings. The local media and idiots fans will parrot the same. Everyone in Minnesota just spit out their beer reading Waynes’s salary. Reader is more solid but our LB core is still awful. I’m

I am totally happy for Trae getting paid. He gave the Vikes 5 yrs of professional cornerback play. He was durable, he was a great tackler and he was a pro - never any drama.
His problem was that he can’t play the ball well. He gives up a too many catches where he has his man covered, but doesn’t play the ball so his man makes the catch. He’s may not be elite, but he is above average, perfect for Minnesota.

[The DARK]

The Bengals spent money in free agency? Twice? This really must be the apocalypse after all.

[Hillsdale87]

I am totally happy for Trae getting paid. He gave the Vikes 5 yrs of professional cornerback play. He was durable, he was a great tackler and he was a pro - never any drama.
His problem was that he can’t play the ball well. He gives up a too many catches where he has his man covered, but doesn’t play the ball so his man makes the catch. He’s may not be elite, but he is above average, perfect for Minnesota.

He's basically Dre, but younger. Maybe a slight upgrade as he's less prone to penalties and a better tackler. He's not going to make them an elite defense, but he's a nice pickup. Reader seems like a solid DT. He was PFF's 4th highest graded DT last year. They paid a lot for them, but the Bengals were likely going to have to overpay slightly, and they have plenty of cap space.

People complain when the Bengals don't spend enough. Then when they spend big, there's still complaining... I'm guessing they'll resign Vigil to pair with Pratt, which I would be ok with as Vigil finished the season pretty well and is a very good coverage linebacker. I'd still want to address it in the draft though, so it would be great if one of Murray or Queen fall to the 2nd round.

[Kingspoint]

The one thing that is crystal clear: This is an improved effort over last season. So, there's hope.

[Kingspoint]

The play is only used about 12 times a year, but Waynes is one of the best blitzing Corners in the NFL. Maybe the Bengals could incorporate it 20 times with him.

[Kingspoint]

Why is Bobby Hart still on the team?

If anyone is wondering, his PFF grade last season was 57.7. That's very bad, btw. Guess he pairs well with their new RG. JB is going to get killed at this point, while Mixon will continue to get hit before he reaches the LOS.

Hopefully, Alex Redmond gets through camp, earns the RG spot, and plays every single snap.

[UKFlounder]

Jim Turner apparently likes Bobby Hart, per comments from last year.




Why is Bobby Hart still on the team?

If anyone is wondering, his PFF grade last season was 57.7. That's very bad, btw. Guess he pairs well with their new RG. JB is going to get killed at this point, while Mixon will continue to get hit before he reaches the LOS.

Hopefully, Alex Redmond gets through camp, earns the RG spot, and plays every single snap.

[Bob Sheed]

Why is Jim Turner still on the team?

Or the NFL for that matter.

[UKFlounder]

Agreed



Why is Jim Turner still on the team?

Or the NFL for that matter.

[Todd Gack]

Jim Turner apparently likes Bobby Hart, per comments from last year.

Does Bobby hate homosexuals too? Man, I didn't realize how many homophobes we have in our franchise.

Don't worry, plenty of loser Bengals fans rooted for a life loser in Chris Henry so I'm sure they'll be rooting for Joey and Jimmy this off-season too with Zac Taylor leading the charge.

[Todd Gack]

I disagree.

Giving Bobby Hart a new contract last offseason falls in line with what you are saying, and i was right there with you.

But these two signings are upgrades to be sure.

They do still have a lot of holes but let's see what happens with Dalton. My concern is, everyone knows the Bengals have to move on from Dalton. So the Bengals won't get any takers and won't release him until the last minute when there is no one good left to use that freed up cap money on.

I'm guessing that's the Bears strategy, anyway. And it will probably work.

Reading was the only signing that was "good" and it's a position that we don't need. They're spending a lot of money on tackling CBs. So my guess is that the plan is once they get through the first line of defense, they will have guys back there that will make the tackle after 15 years instead of 35.

Doesn't it seem weird that many Bengals fans will say that one of the strengths of our team last year was our DL and yet we had the worst rush defense in the league? If DL was our strength, what other reason could our issue be on defense? It's obvious it's LB. It just doesn't make sense with these signings. We massively overpay a tackling #2 CB. We could've easily paid Reader and paid Schobert a little more money. All they had to do was guarantee him more money but nah. Let's just give Trae Waynes a lot of money so we can tell people how much we're spending in FA and make it look like we're doing something.

[Redsfaithful]

plenty of loser Bengals fans rooted for a life loser in Chris Henry

Sounds like you're having a bad day, does coming here to post this make you feel better?

[Todd Gack]

Sounds like you're having a bad day, does coming here to post this make you feel better?

So Chris Henry was a 'winner' in life?

[Bob Sheed]

Who flinches first?

Mike Brown (releases Dalton) or Bill Belichick?

Because as soon as Brown releases Dalton, Dalton will be a Patriot.

[Redsfaithful]

So Chris Henry was a 'winner' in life?

No, he pretty clearly had a rough go of it, I just think you must be having a rough time personally to be going to that topic. There's a whole generation of Bengals fans that have been born since Chris Henry was something to talk about with the Bengals. Been a long time. It seems unhealthy to be fixated on one guy who was very troubled, and kind of strange to indict a fan base for pulling for him well over a decade ago.

[Patrick Bateman]

So Chris Henry was a 'winner' in life?

Chris Henry was mentally sick and probably suffered from CTE.

Its not a super cool thing to play scoreboard on.

[Bob Sheed]

Pointless fact:

On the long pass play where Kimo shredded Palmer's knee, Chris Henry was the one who caught the pass for a big gain.

[Boss-Hog]

Pointless fact:

On the long pass play where Kimo shredded Palmer's knee, Chris Henry was the one who caught the pass for a big gain.He got hurt on that play, as well.

[Redsfaithful]

He got hurt on that play, as well.

Yep, underrated part of why that game ended up going so sideways. Understandably overshadowed but he was a big loss also.

[Bob Sheed]

He got hurt on that play, as well.

That right! Forgot about that.

[Todd Gack]

No, he pretty clearly had a rough go of it, I just think you must be having a rough time personally to be going to that topic. There's a whole generation of Bengals fans that have been born since Chris Henry was something to talk about with the Bengals. Been a long time. It seems unhealthy to be fixated on one guy who was very troubled, and kind of strange to indict a fan base for pulling for him well over a decade ago.

The reason I brought it up is because many Bengals fans will be rooting for Joe Mixon, who is a homophobic, female abuser, and I'm sure someone you should have a problem with. Just like our OL coach.

Notice I didn't bring up Odell Thurman who was truly struggling with drug and alcohol problems. Chris Henry was just an idiot and a WR we ended up taking because our franchise was too cheap to sign guys to fill the void. So we had to end up drafting problem guys like MIXON and Chris Henry because a lot of other teams didn't want to deal with their stupidity because they fell into our laps.

[Todd Gack]

Chris Henry was mentally sick and probably suffered from CTE.

Its not a super cool thing to play scoreboard on.

How do we know Chris Henry has CTE other than making things up? This is a guy who was arrested while wearing his own jersey. He's just a clown.

[redsfandan]

How do we know Chris Henry has CTE other than making things up? This is a guy who was arrested while wearing his own jersey. He's just a clown.


An autopsy revealed that Henry had developed chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) during his playing career due to repetitive hits to the head.[1] Because CTE can only be diagnosed in an autopsy and Henry was still active in the NFL when he died, Henry represented the first case where an active player had died and could be diagnosed with CTE.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Henry_(wide_receiver)

[Patrick Bateman]

How do we know Chris Henry has CTE other than making things up? This is a guy who was arrested while wearing his own jersey. He's just a clown.

We use google, we stay topical on what mental health problems look like, we don’t go out of our way to troll discussions, and rather, we actually attempt to participate in good faith conversation.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Todd Gack]

Thanks for the heads up. I had no idea.

It still doesn't change my mind for why Chris Henry was a life loser. How many other football players with CTE were arrested wearing their own jersey hanging out with 15 year old girls? How are the two mutually exclusive? Are you guys actually arguing that Henry was this dumb because of CTE?

[Todd Gack]

We use google, we stay topical on what mental health problems look like, we don’t go out of our way to troll discussions, and rather, we actually attempt to participate in good faith conversation.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You really think Chris Henry was this big of an idiot because of CTE? Are we going to blame CTE for Joe Mixon and Jim Turner being homophobes?

[Kingspoint]

Are you guys actually arguing that Henry was this dumb because of CTE? Hopefully, not. He had the maturity of a 5-year old.

[Bob Sheed]

So I guess case closed for the latest blatent cheating by the Patriots.

What a crock. If I was them or any other team, I'd say the door's wide open to cheat however you please.

[Kingspoint]

So, the draft will go on beginning April 23rd. It begins for the Bengals April 24th as they listen to trade offers for the 33rd pick. There are so many players that fit their needs in the 2nd Round that it only makes sense to trade down a handful of picks and pick up an extra quality pick.

[WVRed]

So, the draft will go on beginning April 23rd. It begins for the Bengals April 24th as they listen to trade offers for the 33rd pick. There are so many players that fit their needs in the 2nd Round that it only makes sense to trade down a handful of picks and pick up an extra quality pick.

So looking at FA, what holes could they address with 33 or if they move up or down?

I still say LB even with Bynes on board. If Queen or Murray are available.

[Kingspoint]

Walter Football has Dye going #72. We have the 67th pick. April 24th is going to be an exciting day as I see us adding three potential starters.

[Patrick Bateman]

You really think Chris Henry was this big of an idiot because of CTE? Are we going to blame CTE for Joe Mixon and Jim Turner being homophobes?

It’s a combination of life factors.

You grow up without privilege, and your not always going to have views that educated people may have, and then you get hit in
the head a pile of times, and your brain development gets stunted, and even breaks the good things that did happen, and the combination creates a lot of negative consequences.

It’s hard to accurately peg where each of the direct reasons lie for the Chris Henry story, and where in each category we want to blame. Maybe a combo of born with low iq, unfortunate life experiences, low educational opportunities during formative years, and CTE.

Ultimately when you see the same issues over and over, even when the person seems to understand it’s wrong - they have my sympathy, as it just seems the guy didn’t have the fundamental life skills as a well adjusted adult should have. It sucks for everyone involved, and I can’t begin to pretend I lived a day in the life in his shoes to understand why it all happened and why he couldn’t dig himself out of it.

I do know that it’s really easy for people like you to spot down on people like that - and I find your motivations for having this schtick as sad as any of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sea Ray]

So, the draft will go on beginning April 23rd. It begins for the Bengals April 24th as they listen to trade offers for the 33rd pick. There are so many players that fit their needs in the 2nd Round that it only makes sense to trade down a handful of picks and pick up an extra quality pick.

It would make the most sense if they traded the pick late on the 23rd or before rd 2 starts on the 24th. That's when other teams can see who fell to the 2nd rd

[Bob Sheed]

Zac Attack seems to be leaving his mark on the franchise.

Maybe I was wrong about the guy. Here's hoping he is more Jimmy Johnson than Dave Shula.

[North]

Kirkpatrick released.

[Bob Sheed]

Kirkpatrick released.

They ought to be able to pick up some depth on the oline with that savings.

Because right now, Burrow would be protected by a bunch of has beens and never weres.

[North]

They ought to be able to pick up some depth on the oline with that savings.

Because right now, Burrow would be protected by a bunch of has beens and never weres.

The secret plan: Drew Sample as H-Back. ;)

[Bob Sheed]

The secret plan: Drew Sample as H-Back. ;)

Can't be any worse than Drew Sample at TE.

Maybe during goal line situations...

[Kingspoint]

Kirkpatrick released.

After his release, PFF posted a Top-50 article of the current remaining Free Agents. There is a huge dropoff after the Top-8, the next three are very questionable, and then it's nothing but a crap heap after that. Kirkpatrick comes in way back at #28 in that pile of doo-doo.

Those Top-8 are excellent, though, with two of them Cornerbacks.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-the-50-best-available-nfl-free-agents-in-2020

[Kingspoint]

I like the idea of taking an OT with next year's 1st Rd pick. That's a better quality Tackle than anything we can get this season.

[WVRed]

Can't be any worse than Drew Sample at TE.

Maybe during goal line situations...

Maybe I’m optimistic, but I haven’t given up hope on Sample yet.

TEs usually take two years to take off. He kinda reminds me of George Kittle in that regard.

[North]

Maybe I’m optimistic, but I haven’t given up hope on Sample yet.

TEs usually take two years to take off. He kinda reminds me of George Kittle in that regard.

Definitely haven't given up. The bad OL skewed most everything.

[North]

Local tv station reports that NE has no interest in Dalton, that they will go with some 4th rounder.

So it's a variation on the McCarron snafu. They will get zip for Dalton.

Because they are not in the business of making other teams better. :bang:

[Kingspoint]

It's OK. They have until mid-season next year to move Atkins, Green, Dalton and Dunlap in order to acquire draft picks and/or younger and cheaper players to grow with Burrow. Any acquired picks for 2021 can be used to move up and grab the best and HOF potential, Penei Sewell, Left Tackle and 2019 Outland Trophy and Co-Pac-12 Offensive POY.

These are the other five finalists whom he beat out for the reward:

Wisconsin center Tyler Biadasz, Auburn defensive tackle Derrick Brown, Clemson guard John Simpson, Georgia offensive tackle Andrew Thomas and Iowa offensive tackle Tristan Wirfs.

His Sophomore season grade was Pro Football Focus' highest grade in their entire history for an Offensive Lineman.

[KoryMac5]

Local tv station reports that NE has no interest in Dalton, that they will go with some 4th rounder.

So it's a variation on the McCarron snafu. They will get zip for Dalton.

Because they are not in the business of making other teams better. :bang:

What confirmed offers did they have for Dalton?

0

The team allowed Dalton and his agent to find a trade, they didn't find one. Once Chicago went with Foles there was nothing there as the market is flooded with QB's this season. Cam is still out there, and Jameis too, bad year to be a free agent QB, I would hold and hope someone gets hurt.

[Hillsdale87]

Local tv station reports that NE has no interest in Dalton, that they will go with some 4th rounder.

So it's a variation on the McCarron snafu. They will get zip for Dalton.

Because they are not in the business of making other teams better. :bang:

I think this had more to do with the huge supply of QBs on the market this year. Jameis and Cam are still out there too. There were just more QBs available than teams that needed one. Maybe the Bengals could have done a better job, but it was the worst year to try to trade a mediocre QB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingspoint]

What confirmed offers did they have for Dalton?

0

The team allowed Dalton and his agent to find a trade, they didn't find one. Once Chicago went with Foles there was nothing there as the market is flooded with QB's this season. Cam is still out there, and Jameis too, bad year to be a free agent QB, I would hold and hope someone gets hurt.

QB's will definitely get hurt. Training camp may not even begin until August or September. Sorry, Roger, but there will not be any preseason games. Kiss that revenue goodbye. Roger Goodell is on course to be the most hated man in the sports world. Government might need to step in and do his job for him and shut these teams down from getting together.

[Bob Sheed]

What confirmed offers did they have for Dalton?

0

The team allowed Dalton and his agent to find a trade, they didn't find one. Once Chicago went with Foles there was nothing there as the market is flooded with QB's this season. Cam is still out there, and Jameis too, bad year to be a free agent QB, I would hold and hope someone gets hurt.

Remember when they did nothing at the trade deadline because they "didn’t want to make other teams better"?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers...

[Boss-Hog]

I speculated before the new league year began that Dalton's $17.7 million contract would be a hindrance for a team to take on just to have him as QB competition and not even necessarily the starter. That unfortunately looks to have been at least part of the problem - along with the Bengals overvaluing their own players, as usual.

[KoryMac5]

Remember when they did nothing at the trade deadline because they "didn’t want to make other teams better"?

Pepperidge Farm Remembers...

They should have looked to deal him at the deadline...they waited and lost that gamble. I really don't think there was much of a market TBH.

[Kingspoint]

I speculated before the new league year began that Dalton's $17.7 million contract would be a hindrance for a team to take on just to have him as QB competition and not even necessarily the starter. That unfortunately looks to have been at least part of the problem - along with the Bengals overvaluing their own players, as usual.

They are improving quickly at their evaluations of their own players. So many releases, even with dead money that was like a silver bullet to the Bengals, shows they are getting it.

[Bob Sheed]

They are improving quickly at their evaluations of their own players. So many releases, even with dead money that was like a silver bullet to the Bengals, shows they are getting it.

I noticed the same thing.

It has to be the Zac Attack factor, because it sure as heck isn't the Katie/Troy factor.

[Todd Gack]

What confirmed offers did they have for Dalton?

0

The team allowed Dalton and his agent to find a trade, they didn't find one. Once Chicago went with Foles there was nothing there as the market is flooded with QB's this season. Cam is still out there, and Jameis too, bad year to be a free agent QB, I would hold and hope someone gets hurt.

How do we know we had 0 offers when our leadership had no service in the Alps?

[Bob Sheed]

How do we know we had 0 offers when our leadership had no service in the Alps?

That was tongue-in-cheek on my part. I was connecting the dots somewhat with two things that were happening at that time.

1. The "We're not in the business of making other teams better" horse poop.
and
2. Katie Bug and Troy on vacation during the trade deadline.

Both of those things, as a fan, pissed me off. But I mean, who knows... maybe they were making calls, wheeling and dealing, but there were no takers at any price. I kind of doubt it though. Because of point #1.

And now look at them. The music has stopped, and they are without a chair. Again. And it's most likely the same reason. They come to the table asking for the moon and stars, don't budge an inch, and then nothing happens.

So they're playing this poker game with the Pats and Jags now, except the Bengals have a 7-2 off suit here. They might as well hold on to Dalton now, hope that Dalton looks good during preseason, and hope that some QB gets injured.

[KoryMac5]

How do we know we had 0 offers when our leadership had no service in the Alps?

I agree they should have listened to offers for Dalton at the deadline...or maybe Dalton is just above average and didn't solicit anything substantial.

[Kingspoint]

I agree they should have listened to offers for Dalton at the deadline...or maybe Dalton is just above average and didn't solicit anything substantial.

Like Joe Flacco, Dalton showed that he was absolutely horrible under pressure. Clean pocket, sure, but pressure, and he was having his worst year career-wise.

[Bob Sheed]

Like Joe Flacco, Dalton showed that he was absolutely horrible under pressure. Clean pocket, sure, but pressure, and he was having his worst year career-wise.

This. Plus the 17 million price tag.

If he's released, I see him in the 4 to 5 million range.

[Kingspoint]

This. Plus the 17 million price tag.

If he's released, I see him in the 4 to 5 million range.

Yep. He and Flacco have about the same value.

[Bob Sheed]

Yep. He and Flacco have about the same value.

Which is crazy because I would take Dalton over Flacco in a heartbeat.

Dalton, with the right supporting cast, can take you to the playoffs. Maybe all the way. He just can't get pressured, or he folds. Flacco looks like poop now even with a clean pocket.

[Kingspoint]

Which is crazy because I would take Dalton over Flacco in a heartbeat.

Dalton, with the right supporting cast, can take you to the playoffs. Maybe all the way. He just can't get pressured, or he folds. Flacco looks like poop now even with a clean pocket.

Dalton had a couple of good years where he did ok with pressure, and generally, pressure isn't an issue with him because of his quick release. It just doesn't come up that much. But, last year was a disaster, as we knew it would be with that Line and no Green to heave it to.

[Bob Sheed]

Dalton had a couple of good years where he did ok with pressure, and generally, pressure isn't an issue with him because of his quick release. It just doesn't come up that much. But, last year was a disaster, as we knew it would be with that Line and no Green to heave it to.

Agreed. I think last season really damaged Dalton.

A change of scenery really would do wonders for him. But I don't see the value of releasing him if there is no one left to spend that 17 million on. Dalton's a good guy, and could help Burrow out quite a bit. The only way that backfires is if Burrow gets injured early and Andy squeaks out a 5-11 or whatever. On the other hand, If Burrow gets off to a fast start but has an injury that sidelines him briefly, it would be good to have Dalton in there.

I don't think it would be smart to release Dalton at this point.

[North]

Geno Atkins makes NFL 2010s All-Decade team

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/4/6/21209821/cincinnati-bengals-dt-geno-atkins-makes-nfl-2010s-all-decade-team

[Bob Sheed]

Geno Atkins makes NFL 2010s All-Decade team

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/4/6/21209821/cincinnati-bengals-dt-geno-atkins-makes-nfl-2010s-all-decade-team

Well deserved.

He's had trouble handling the double teams in the past year or two, but before that, he was an absolute beast.

On another team, he'd be a lock for the HOF.

[GAC]

I noticed the same thing.

It has to be the Zac Attack factor, because it sure as heck isn't the Katie/Troy factor.

Who controls the money, gives the OK? LOL Katie had to be involved in the negotiations/signing of those contracts. Now if they're "backing off" as far as the talent evaluation area, and leaving that to Tobin/Taylor, and coaching staff, then that's possibly a solid sign.

I'm enjoying reading these recent reports and chatter that there are "true believers" within the Bengals, including MB, of Justin Herbert. And that it could be an intelligent move by the Bengals. IMO, no it would not, and it's not gonna happen .... but it's simply sound strategy to look at all candidates.

Not dissing Herbert ... but he's no Burrow IMO.

As for Taylor - You'll know, this draft, upcoming season, whether he is the guy or not. Gotta give him a chance to implement his system and acquire the players, get rid of dead wood.

[Todd Gack]

Well deserved.

He's had trouble handling the double teams in the past year or two, but before that, he was an absolute beast.

On another team, he'd be a lock for the HOF.

He'd be even more impressive if it wasn't for his injury in '13.

[Todd Gack]

It’s a combination of life factors.

You grow up without privilege, and your not always going to have views that educated people may have, and then you get hit in
the head a pile of times, and your brain development gets stunted, and even breaks the good things that did happen, and the combination creates a lot of negative consequences.

It’s hard to accurately peg where each of the direct reasons lie for the Chris Henry story, and where in each category we want to blame. Maybe a combo of born with low iq, unfortunate life experiences, low educational opportunities during formative years, and CTE.

Ultimately when you see the same issues over and over, even when the person seems to understand it’s wrong - they have my sympathy, as it just seems the guy didn’t have the fundamental life skills as a well adjusted adult should have. It sucks for everyone involved, and I can’t begin to pretend I lived a day in the life in his shoes to understand why it all happened and why he couldn’t dig himself out of it.

I do know that it’s really easy for people like you to spot down on people like that - and I find your motivations for having this schtick as sad as any of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, the entire point of my original post was that the Bengals were put in a position to pick guys like that because our drafting/scouting guys like Henry and homophobic female abusers like Joe Mixon. And we'll sit there cheering on those guys like that come September.

[Bob Sheed]

Again, the entire point of my original post was that the Bengals were put in a position to pick guys like that because our drafting/scouting guys like Henry and homophobic female abusers like Joe Mixon. And we'll sit there cheering on those guys like that come September.

If we're lucky.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

Wow...we get it already.. homophobic...homophobic...homophobic...move on or call the bengals front office

[Bob Sheed]

Wow...we get it already.. homophobic...homophobic...homophobic...move on or call the bengals front office

I called the Bengals Front Office. Or tried to anyway.

Apparently they have their Economy Savings Party Line temporarily suspended, so as to not be charged during this pandemic period of inactivity.

Hobson's been furloughed but he keeps writing articles for some reason.

The thermostat for the heating at the PBS offices, remains off or if cold enough outside, locked at 61 degrees. Until the temperature outside gets warm enough, then the AC is off or locked at 82.

More news later.

[Redsfaithful]

Hobson's been furloughed but he keeps writing articles for some reason.

This made me laugh, so spot on.

[Bob Sheed]

Gotta keep it light. I'll be happy if there even are games this fall, honestly.

[North]

Gotta keep it light. I'll be happy if there even are games this fall, honestly.

My magic 8 Ball keeps coming up "No." :(

[Redsfaithful]

Gotta keep it light. I'll be happy if there even are games this fall, honestly.

Same. I can't imagine there will be fans at the games given recent news about how specifically terrible large events are for spread, but I still hope they have some kind of season.

[WVRed]

So Mel Kiper has his new mock out today and the Bengals going with Josh Jones in the second.

Also suggested the 6’7 Jones could move inside to guard if needed. Can’t really see it.

Also has Denzel Mims going one pick later to Indianapolis. If both players are on the board, who do you go with?

Kenneth Murray and Patrick Queen are gone in the first round.

[RiverRat13]

So Mel Kiper has his new mock out today and the Bengals going with Josh Jones in the second.

Also suggested the 6’7 Jones could move inside to guard if needed. Can’t really see it.

Also has Denzel Mims going one pick later to Indianapolis. If both players are on the board, who do you go with?

Kenneth Murray and Patrick Queen are gone in the first round.

I'd rather have Mims but would be happy with Jones. FWIW, Joe Goodberry believes Jones could start at RG and eventually move out to tackle.

[Hillsdale87]

So Mel Kiper has his new mock out today and the Bengals going with Josh Jones in the second.

Also suggested the 6’7 Jones could move inside to guard if needed. Can’t really see it.

Also has Denzel Mims going one pick later to Indianapolis. If both players are on the board, who do you go with?

Kenneth Murray and Patrick Queen are gone in the first round.

Jones is tall but has short arms, which is why some think he would move inside. I'd be happy with either guy there. If Queen or Murray aren't there, I want somebody that will make life better for Burrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[North]

Are the Bengals expecting a Joe Mixon holdout?
Signs point to yes.

By John Sheeran@John__Sheeran

"The recent reports are true: the Bengals want to sign running back Joe Mixon to a contract extension. But if Mixon is expecting that to look like the deal Panthers’ All-Pro Christian McCaffery just signed, he’s got another thing coming to him.

Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic recently wrote that the Bengals aren’t necessarily focused on drafting a running back in next week’s NFL Draft but are “prepared for a holdout” from Mixon if they can’t agree to a deal before training camp begins (if it begins, that is).

This would help verify the report that the Bengals are closer to finalizing a deal for A.J. Green then they are with Mixon."


The laughing stock franchise of the NFL continues apace.

[Kingspoint]

Are the Bengals expecting a Joe Mixon holdout?
Signs point to yes.

By John Sheeran@John__Sheeran

"The recent reports are true: the Bengals want to sign running back Joe Mixon to a contract extension. But if Mixon is expecting that to look like the deal Panthers’ All-Pro Christian McCaffery just signed, he’s got another thing coming to him.

Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic recently wrote that the Bengals aren’t necessarily focused on drafting a running back in next week’s NFL Draft but are “prepared for a holdout” from Mixon if they can’t agree to a deal before training camp begins (if it begins, that is).

This would help verify the report that the Bengals are closer to finalizing a deal for A.J. Green then they are with Mixon."


The laughing stock franchise of the NFL continues apace.

How does this report reflect nevatively on the franchise?

Mixon is a grown man. He can choose to renegotiate his contract if he wants. The Bengals can choose to renegotiate with him or not. There's nothing negative about this. Bengals have a number they are OK with. They also have a principle in the past that they would never ever consider listening to someone who wants to renegotiate. Mixon saw the franchise spend $152M. He is about to make $2M. He feels he's earned more. Good luck to him. RB's are a dime-a-dozen right now. He has no bargaining power. If I were him, I wouldn't take a penny less than being paid 50% of all RB money that the Bengals pay out, whatever that number happens to be.

[Kingspoint]

So Mel Kiper has his new mock out today and the Bengals going with Josh Jones in the second.

Also suggested the 6’7 Jones could move inside to guard if needed. Can’t really see it.

Also has Denzel Mims going one pick later to Indianapolis. If both players are on the board, who do you go with?

Kenneth Murray and Patrick Queen are gone in the first round.

Josh Jones won't get past #22.

[KoryMac5]

Are the Bengals expecting a Joe Mixon holdout?
Signs point to yes.

By John Sheeran@John__Sheeran

"The recent reports are true: the Bengals want to sign running back Joe Mixon to a contract extension. But if Mixon is expecting that to look like the deal Panthers’ All-Pro Christian McCaffery just signed, he’s got another thing coming to him.

Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic recently wrote that the Bengals aren’t necessarily focused on drafting a running back in next week’s NFL Draft but are “prepared for a holdout” from Mixon if they can’t agree to a deal before training camp begins (if it begins, that is).

This would help verify the report that the Bengals are closer to finalizing a deal for A.J. Green then they are with Mixon."


The laughing stock franchise of the NFL continues apace.

Puzzled by this take especially with the recent cuts of high cost running backs...

I think the team wants Mixon back but has a number they want him back at and paying him 16 million per season would be insane.

What number would you be willing to give considering running backs are fairly easy to find in the draft...

I would offer him 4 for 40 and I think that might be a bit of an overpay...

[Bob Sheed]

Puzzled by this take especially with the recent cuts of high cost running backs...

I think the team wants Mixon back but has a number they want him back at and paying him 16 million per season would be insane.

What number would you be willing to give considering running backs are fairly easy to find in the draft...

I would offer him 4 for 40 and I think that might be a bit of an overpay...

I agree w/ 4/40. Although I think they still would regret that 4th year.

Personally, I find Mixon hard to root for anyway. I wouldn't care if they let him walk. Maybe replace him with someone who doesn't punch women in the face.

[KoryMac5]

I agree w/ 4/40. Although I think they still would regret that 4th year.

Personally, I find Mixon hard to root for anyway. I wouldn't care if they let him walk. Maybe replace him with someone who doesn't punch women in the face.

That film is tough to get past isn't it...4 for 40 was what Goodberry talked about today and I would be ok with it mostly due to his age, he's relatively young, and has done well for the team off and on the field.

[Bob Sheed]

That film is tough to get past isn't it...4 for 40 was what Goodberry talked about today and I would be ok with it mostly due to his age, he's relatively young, and has done well for the team off and on the field.

It really is. I mean, I get all of it. He was young. He's been a model citizen and a heck of a football player since.

I just can't erase that out of my head. Him punching that chick and her going down like a ragdoll. I'm sorry I even watched it in the first place.

[Todd Gack]

It really is. I mean, I get all of it. He was young. He's been a model citizen and a heck of a football player since.

I just can't erase that out of my head. Him punching that chick and her going down like a ragdoll. I'm sorry I even watched it in the first place.

Same. We can move on. Mixon's not worth it for multiple reasons.

And let's say we give him a new contract. The guy is going to become complacent again. Who knows if he's not going to punch another woman. But he's a model citizen because he knows he's lucky to have been drafted in the first place. Now that he'll get his big contract, chances of him doing something stupid again will invariably get higher.

[Bob Sheed]

Same. We can move on. Mixon's not worth it for multiple reasons.

And let's say we give him a new contract. The guy is going to become complacent again. Who knows if he's not going to punch another woman. But he's a model citizen because he knows he's lucky to have been drafted in the first place. Now that he'll get his big contract, chances of him doing something stupid again will invariably get higher.

I'm of the opinion that football players aren't boy scouts. It's a violent game.

I think they should let him walk. But not because he punched that girl in the face. It's because NFL RBs are a dime a dozen. Put that money into offensive linemen that can open holes, and a serviceable RB who can pass block and not fumble, does the job just fine.

[Bob Sheed]

I'd let Green walk too. For years, I thought Green had the slight edge over Julio Jones. They were drafted same year.

But it's all Jones now and has been for the past 2 years.

[WVRed]

So if Mixon holds out, does D’Andre Swift or Jonathan Taylor come into play at 33?

[KoryMac5]

I'd let Green walk too. For years, I thought Green had the slight edge over Julio Jones. They were drafted same year.

But it's all Jones now and has been for the past 2 years.

Green has had a run of bad luck...his foot/ankle issues are a concern going forward. It really depends on what the numbers are being bandied about and what you get in the draft. If they take a wide out in the 2nd round I could see them letting him play it out or dealing him at the deadline.

[KoryMac5]

So if Mixon holds out, does D’Andre Swift or Jonathan Taylor come into play at 33?

Speculation from Dehner at this point...Mixon and his agent have said nothing about a hold out, and the way the CBA is written I doubt he would hold out and lose service time.

[North]

Mock draft from the Birmingham News:

AL.com NFL mock draft 2: First round loaded with Alabama, LSU players

https://www.al.com/sports/2020/04/alcom-nfl-mock-draft-2-first-round-loaded-with-alabama-lsu-players.html

[Bob Sheed]

Mock draft from the Birmingham News:

AL.com NFL mock draft 2: First round loaded with Alabama, LSU players

https://www.al.com/sports/2020/04/alcom-nfl-mock-draft-2-first-round-loaded-with-alabama-lsu-players.html

Yeah I hear those teams are pretty good. :lol:

[North]

Yeah I hear those teams are pretty good. :lol:

Any comments on their picks?

[Bob Sheed]

Any comments on their picks?

Not specifically. More of a general observation that there are many LSU, Alabama players taken in the draft every year, not just this one.

[WrongVerb]

So the Patriots trade a retired guy and get a 4th rounder? And the Bengals can't get a 7th rounder for Dalton? Really?

[membengal]

So the Patriots trade a retired guy and get a 4th rounder? And the Bengals can't get a 7th rounder for Dalton? Really?

I mean, yeah? The retired guy is a lock hall of famer and only fetched a 4th, so weird comparison?

[Todd Gack]

So the Patriots trade a retired guy and get a 4th rounder? And the Bengals can't get a 7th rounder for Dalton? Really?

Are we sure the Bengals aren't holding out for a higher round pick?

[Kingspoint]

Any comments on their picks?

This Burrow guy is pretty good.