2020 Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread

[RiverRat13]

The offseason is upon us.

[RiverRat13]

Fred Johnson held up reasonably well at tackle against the Dolphins and Browns. My only concern is that the team will count him as a solution in 2020 (therefore not addressing OL as much as it needs addressed from the outside) and not a guy who should have to compete for a swing tackle role.

[membengal]

On the line...Jonah Williams will be ready and is the LT. Hopkins is set at C. The real question is can Fred Johnson be an upgrade at RT and allow them to move on from Hart without spending draft capital on a RT at the top of round 2. That would free them up to look at a LG at top of round 2 or a LB if they have found their G in free agency. I expect Miller is back at RG and it could be they are happy with what they saw from Jordan at LG and that isn't even a need.

I know the drumbeat is that the Bengals line SUCKS, but, BUT, does it? Get Jonah Williams back at LT (he was the legit #1 T in the draft last year) and upgrade Hart at RT and this line is one that helped Mixon to 817 yards in the last 8 games of the year. I think there is stuff to build on there, and that Burrow is the kind of QB to help an average line look ok.

I would be thrilled if they were freed up to BPA/LB at top of round 2 to get a running mate for Pratt.

I am as bullish and optimistic about the direction of the team as I have been in awhile, frankly. The team clearly didn't quit on Taylor, I still trust Taylor to get it right, and I know that not every coach has an awesome record in his first season (Jimmy Johnson was 1-15 for example). For the first time in a long time they tanked properly (whether intentional or not) and didn't screw things up with meaningless wins late. Being in position to take Burrow, to coach the Senior Bowl, to be in the prime position at the top of each round, it makes much of the pain of this year feel more worth it now.

Mark me down for super intrigued as a fan, for the first time in a long time. And, if they draft Burrow, and if he is starting from day 1 (as he should), I will commit to meeting some of you all in person as I will make the trek from Baltimore to Cincinnati for Burrow's home debut if it all goes down like it should.

[Sea Ray]

I don't think they're looking at Fred Johnson as a starter. He's not built like a RT. Their comments seem to suggest that he's a 6th man next yr

[WVRed]

Bungle for Burrow!

[WVRed]

On the line...Jonah Williams will be ready and is the LT. Hopkins is set at C. The real question is can Fred Johnson be an upgrade at RT and allow them to move on from Hart without spending draft capital on a RT at the top of round 2. That would free them up to look at a LG at top of round 2 or a LB if they have found their G in free agency. I expect Miller is back at RG and it could be they are happy with what they saw from Jordan at LG and that isn't even a need.

I know the drumbeat is that the Bengals line SUCKS, but, BUT, does it? Get Jonah Williams back at LT (he was the legit #1 T in the draft last year) and upgrade Hart at RT and this line is one that helped Mixon to 817 yards in the last 8 games of the year. I think there is stuff to build on there, and that Burrow is the kind of QB to help an average line look ok.

I would be thrilled if they were freed up to BPA/LB at top of round 2 to get a running mate for Pratt.

I am as bullish and optimistic about the direction of the team as I have been in awhile, frankly. The team clearly didn't quit on Taylor, I still trust Taylor to get it right, and I know that not every coach has an awesome record in his first season (Jimmy Johnson was 1-15 for example). For the first time in a long time they tanked properly (whether intentional or not) and didn't screw things up with meaningless wins late. Being in position to take Burrow, to coach the Senior Bowl, to be in the prime position at the top of each round, it makes much of the pain of this year feel more worth it now.

Mark me down for super intrigued as a fan, for the first time in a long time. And, if they draft Burrow, and if he is starting from day 1 (as he should), I will commit to meeting some of you all in person as I will make the trek from Baltimore to Cincinnati for Burrow's home debut if it all goes down like it should.

I’ve already said if the Bengals draft Burrow I am buying my son a Burrow jersey.

[Boston Red]

So will Burrow suffer his debilitating injury before or after the Bengals draft him?

[reds77]

My last post in the other thread:


Now that the season is over, I hope the Bengals take Burrow with the first pick.

I wonder how the rest of the draft will turn out? The Bengals desperately need help at LB, but I'd also like to see them invest in ways to protect Burrow through the draft. Offensive lineman, blocking TEs, or hell, draft a fullback. If Burrow is the #1 pick, the Bengals need to protect him at all costs.

[WVRed]

If Dylan Moses is available Day 2 should the Bengals look at him?

[membengal]

If Dylan Moses is available Day 2 should the Bengals look at him?

Absolutely. But most mock drafts I have seen have him easily in first round still, even coming off the ACL.

[Bob Sheed]

Best we can hope for is the 1989 Dallas Cowboys.

- The 1988 Cowboys finished 3-13, so they get the 1st pick in the 1989 draft.
- Enter new coach Jimmy Johnson.
- 1989 draft: They get the 1st pick and draft Troy Aikman. Plus, 4 of their next 5 draft picks end up being pro-bowlers. Nice.
- 1989 season: They go 1-15, Aikman hurt for the middle of the season. Plus they screw up getting the 1st pick because they took Johnson's college QB in the supplemental as competition for Aikman. Oops.
- 1990 draft: The miss on pretty much every other pick, but they get one right: Emmitt Smith @17.
- 1990 season: 7-9. Not great but a nice improvement. Plus, the trio of Irvin (who they drafted in 1988), Aikman, and Smith are starting to gel. Smith won ROY, and Johnson won COY.
- 1991 draft. Netted 3 pro bowlers. That's how you do it.
- 1991-1996 seasons: 6 straight playoff appearances. 3 Super Bowl victories.

Good coaching.
Great drafting.
And that's what you get.

For the 2020 Bengals, .500 has to be the high water mark, if Burrow stays healthy. Dalton has to go, because if Burrow goes down, you want the team to lose badly too, for that high draft pick. Having Dalton will get you 5-11 to 8-8 with this group. That's no bueno. Franchise Green. He's still young. Burrow/Mixon/Green could be a formidable combo, if Burrow comes as advertised.

Bottom line is, even if things go 1989 Cowboys right, it's still going to be another year at least before the Bengals even think of the playoffs. And they need to not just hit with the Burrow pick, they need to hit with multiple picks this draft.

Basically a LOT needs to go right, especially drafting. And the Bengals do not exactly inspire confidence there. Maybe they get lucky?

EDIT: (from today's Enquirer):


Taylor, by the way, said he hasn’t seen much of Burrow

:help:

[WVRed]

Best we can hope for is the 1989 Dallas Cowboys.

- The 1988 Cowboys finished 3-13, so they get the 1st pick in the 1989 draft.
- Enter new coach Jimmy Johnson.
- 1989 draft: They get the 1st pick and draft Troy Aikman. Plus, 4 of their next 5 draft picks end up being pro-bowlers. Nice.
- 1989 season: They go 1-15, Aikman hurt for the middle of the season. Plus they screw up getting the 1st pick because they took Johnson's college QB in the supplemental as competition for Aikman. Oops.
- 1990 draft: The miss on pretty much every other pick, but they get one right: Emmitt Smith @17.
- 1990 season: 7-9. Not great but a nice improvement. Plus, the trio of Irvin (who they drafted in 1988), Aikman, and Smith are starting to gel. Smith won ROY, and Johnson won COY.
- 1991 draft. Netted 3 pro bowlers. That's how you do it.
- 1991-1996 seasons: 6 straight playoff appearances. 3 Super Bowl victories.

Good coaching.
Great drafting.
And that's what you get.

For the 2020 Bengals, .500 has to be the high water mark, if Burrow stays healthy. Dalton has to go, because if Burrow goes down, you want the team to lose badly too, for that high draft pick. Having Dalton will get you 5-11 to 8-8 with this group. That's no bueno. Franchise Green. He's still young. Burrow/Mixon/Green could be a formidable combo, if Burrow comes as advertised.

Bottom line is, even if things go 1989 Cowboys right, it's still going to be another year at least before the Bengals even think of the playoffs. And they need to not just hit with the Burrow pick, they need to hit with multiple picks this draft.

Basically a LOT needs to go right, especially drafting. And the Bengals do not exactly inspire confidence there. Maybe they get lucky?

EDIT: (from today's Enquirer):



:help:

I’m sure he will get a full meeting at the senior bowl.

[KoryMac5]

Bengals sign Winston Rose CB...led CFL in INT's this past season...supposedly he impressed the Vikings in a workout last year.

[KoryMac5]

Best we can hope for is the 1989 Dallas Cowboys.

- The 1988 Cowboys finished 3-13, so they get the 1st pick in the 1989 draft.
- Enter new coach Jimmy Johnson.
- 1989 draft: They get the 1st pick and draft Troy Aikman. Plus, 4 of their next 5 draft picks end up being pro-bowlers. Nice.
- 1989 season: They go 1-15, Aikman hurt for the middle of the season. Plus they screw up getting the 1st pick because they took Johnson's college QB in the supplemental as competition for Aikman. Oops.
- 1990 draft: The miss on pretty much every other pick, but they get one right: Emmitt Smith @17.
- 1990 season: 7-9. Not great but a nice improvement. Plus, the trio of Irvin (who they drafted in 1988), Aikman, and Smith are starting to gel. Smith won ROY, and Johnson won COY.
- 1991 draft. Netted 3 pro bowlers. That's how you do it.
- 1991-1996 seasons: 6 straight playoff appearances. 3 Super Bowl victories.

Good coaching.
Great drafting.
And that's what you get.

For the 2020 Bengals, .500 has to be the high water mark, if Burrow stays healthy. Dalton has to go, because if Burrow goes down, you want the team to lose badly too, for that high draft pick. Having Dalton will get you 5-11 to 8-8 with this group. That's no bueno. Franchise Green. He's still young. Burrow/Mixon/Green could be a formidable combo, if Burrow comes as advertised.

Bottom line is, even if things go 1989 Cowboys right, it's still going to be another year at least before the Bengals even think of the playoffs. And they need to not just hit with the Burrow pick, they need to hit with multiple picks this draft.

Basically a LOT needs to go right, especially drafting. And the Bengals do not exactly inspire confidence there. Maybe they get lucky?

EDIT: (from today's Enquirer):



:help:

You miss some key pts in why Dallas was able to turn things around...

1. Trades...the Walker trade was huge and really helped that team build depth that was sorely needed. Walsh may have been a bust in NO but he also was turned into 3 draft picks one of which was Russell Maryland. Unfortunately Mike Brown doesn't believe in making other teams better.
2. Johnson got Dallas involved in Plan B free agency...and signed 20 players over the course of his first few seasons in Dallas. Again dead horse...the Bengals don't get involved in Free Agency.

So looking at the reluctance of the team to do anything other then draft we basically have to be perfect with our picks.

[KoryMac5]

PFF Ratings Week 17

Offense 5 highest per Goodberry

1) Joe Mixon
2) Michael Jordan
3) CJ Uzomah
4) Fred Johnson
5) John Miller

Defense

1) Carlos Dunlap
2) Germaine Pratt!
3) Carl Lawson
4) Josh Topou
5) Geno Atkins

We may be able to get away from the line until 3rd day in draft unless someone falls...

[WrongVerb]

So will Burrow suffer his debilitating injury before or after the Bengals draft him?

He won't. Of course what's going to happen is the Bengals will draft him, then trade him to the Dolphins for the fifth pick plus others. The Bengals will then select Justin Herbert, who will suffer a debilitating knee injury on his way to the draft stage.

[RiverRat13]

PFF Ratings Week 17

Offense 5 highest per Goodberry

1) Joe Mixon
2) Michael Jordan
3) CJ Uzomah
4) Fred Johnson
5) John Miller

Defense

1) Carlos Dunlap
2) Germaine Pratt!
3) Carl Lawson
4) Josh Topou
5) Geno Atkins

We may be able to get away from the line until 3rd day in draft unless someone falls...

I hope the decision to go with what they have at Oline isn’t based on what they did against two poor defensive teams in Miami and Cleveland. There needs to be multiple upgrades on the line. But I have a feeling they’ll roll with Williams being the only new starter.

[KoryMac5]

I could see them taking a Tackle on day 2...

Fred Johnson has been a nice find and could be a swing guy off the bench next season.

[Larkin90]

If Billy Price is relegated to a backup role or is on the verge of being cut, is there any chance he could be an option as a fullback? Would his short arms be a non-factor there? I know we haven't used a fullback since Ryan Hewitt, but other offenses around the league are using them (Patriots, Ravens) effectively. With a rookie QB, I'd hope to see a heavy emphasis on the running game and I still remember Price trucking over guys in the running game for OSU.

[North]

Bengals sign Winston Rose CB...led CFL in INT's this past season...supposedly he impressed the Vikings in a workout last year.

Bengals shopping at Ollie's again, I see.

[KoryMac5]

Bengals shopping at Ollie's again, I see.

He's worth a flier...and honestly with him and Tony Brown in the bldg the writing is on the wall to cut Dre.

[North]

He's worth a flier...and honestly with him and Tony Brown in the bldg the writing is on the wall to cut Dre.

Absolutely. They had a hit with ex-CFLer LB Rashard Jeanty several years ago.

[RiverRat13]

He's worth a flier...and honestly with him and Tony Brown in the bldg the writing is on the wall to cut Dre.

They could cut Dalton, Glenn and Kirkpatrick and save around $35mm. They could then use that money to extend Green, Mixon and Dennard and still have $50mm in cap room. I doubt they cut Dre K, though.

[Kingspoint]

Can any Bengals fan give me a reasonable reason (this means dealing with reality) to be optimistic about the Bengals' franchise?

I'm not joking or being sarcastic. It's a legitimate question.

[Redsfaithful]

Can any Bengals fan give me a reasonable reason (this means dealing with reality) to be optimistic about the Bengals' franchise?

I'm not joking or being sarcastic. It's a legitimate question.

Joe Burrow might be Andrew Luck-level and that kind of QB can lift even a dumb franchise

The Colts have terribly dumb ownership, but going Peyton Manning-Andrew Luck papers over a lot of that. Joe Burrow could be that good.

He might not be that level too, and it's asking a lot, but that's the case for optimism.

[Sea Ray]

Can any Bengals fan give me a reasonable reason (this means dealing with reality) to be optimistic about the Bengals' franchise?

I'm not joking or being sarcastic. It's a legitimate question.

Sure. Not long ago they went to the playoffs 6 out of 7 yrs. That can happen again

[North]

Joe Burrow might be Andrew Luck-level and that kind of QB can lift even a dumb franchise

The Colts have terribly dumb ownership, but going Peyton Manning-Andrew Luck papers over a lot of that. Joe Burrow could be that good.

He might not be that level too, and it's asking a lot, but that's the case for optimism.


Have to add Reggie Wayne, Eggerin James, and Dwight Freeney into the equation with Manning.

[Wonderful Monds]

Have to add Reggie Wayne, Eggerin James, and Dwight Freeney into the equation with Manning.

AJ Green, Joe Mixon, and Dunlap/Atkins

[Bob Sheed]

Sure. Not long ago they went to the playoffs 6 out of 7 yrs. That can happen again

That's the high water mark, yes, if that thrills you.

[North]

AJ Green, Joe Mixon, and Dunlap/Atkins

Have to add an OL to that equation.

[Sea Ray]

That's the high water mark, yes, if that thrills you.

It does thrill me. It means I get to enjoy the heck out of a 17 week season and it punches another ticket to the dance. All I want is an invitation to the party. I'll take my chances with a different coach/QB combination. yes, I'd be thrilled with another run like that. It sure beats the heck out of 2-14 and talking draft in early
Oct

[Redsfaithful]

Have to add Reggie Wayne, Eggerin James, and Dwight Freeney into the equation with Manning.

Nah, those guys are much more commonplace than top 3 QBs

[North]

Nah, those guys are much more commonplace than top 3 QBs

Point taken.

[RiverRat13]

Can any Bengals fan give me a reasonable reason (this means dealing with reality) to be optimistic about the Bengals' franchise?

I'm not joking or being sarcastic. It's a legitimate question.

I'm optimistic that they can get back to competing for playoff spots in 2-3 years, although I'm certainly not guaranteeing it. I'm not optimistic that they'll ever compete for a Super Bowl.

[Kingspoint]

Have to add an OL to that equation.

It's the very first thing they did with Peyton and they avoided it like the plague with Luck.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing the Bengals have always been good at....and that's drafting Left Tackles.

[WVRed]

Should there be any concern that no coaching changes whatsoever have taken place?

I know Taylor isn’t going anywhere or Anarumo, but how does Jim Taylor still have a job with Bill Callahan on the market?

[oregonred]

Being a Bengals coach offers more job security than a government employee. With January's off every year

[redsfanmia]

Joe Burrow might be Andrew Luck-level and that kind of QB can lift even a dumb franchise

The Colts have terribly dumb ownership, but going Peyton Manning-Andrew Luck papers over a lot of that. Joe Burrow could be that good.

He might not be that level too, and it's asking a lot, but that's the case for optimism.

Serious question...what exactly has the current colts ownership done that makes them “completely dumb”?

[Kingspoint]

Serious question...what exactly has the current colts ownership done that makes them “completely dumb”?
Hung onto bad coaches too long...repeatedly.

Never gave Luck an Offensive Line, basically wasting that once-in-a-franchise opportunity. Because it happened to them twice, they acted like getting players like Peyton and Luck is easy. It will probably never happen again.

Before Luck, it was constantly ignoring the Defense, foolishly believing that Peyton would lead them to a Super Bowl win every year. No greater example of this than the shellacking the J-E-T-S gave them in the playoffs.

They have done well in the last two, three years, though. They seem guided by a lot more common sense.

Even with Burrows, the Bengals show in every possible scenario that they will Bungle this opportunity to a degree far greater than how the Colts handled their Luck "Golden Egg".

With the Bengals, it's definitely, "I'll believe it when I see it".

[redsfanmia]

Hung onto bad coaches too long...repeatedly.

Never gave Luck an Offensive Line, basically wasting that once-in-a-franchise opportunity. Because it happened to them twice, they acted like getting players like Peyton and Luck is easy. It will probably never happen again.

Before Luck, it was constantly ignoring the Defense, foolishly believing that Peyton would lead them to a Super Bowl win every year. No greater example of this than the shellacking the J-E-T-S gave them in the playoffs.

They have done well in the last two, three years, though. They seem guided by a lot more common sense.

Even with Burrows, the Bengals show in every possible scenario that they will Bungle this opportunity to a degree far greater than how the Colts handled their Luck "Golden Egg".

With the Bengals, it's definitely, "I'll believe it when I see it".

Other than Chuck which coach has he hung onto too long? I’m talking Jimmy not his father. He misjudged Grigson and I will say I think Jimmy was in a bad place with opioids that clouded his judgement. They spend picks on the line to build it for Luck he just had the wrong guy picking the players.

Sorry to hijack the Bengals thread. I’m probably in the minority but I think Taylor will be fine and the Bengals are on the upswing.

[oregonred]

Other than Chuck which coach has he hung onto too long? I’m talking Jimmy not his father. He misjudged Grigson and I will say I think Jimmy was in a bad place with opioids that clouded his judgement. They spend picks on the line to build it for Luck he just had the wrong guy picking the players.

Sorry to hijack the Bengals thread. I’m probably in the minority but I think Taylor will be fine and the Bengals are on the upswing.

Well they could go 1-15 or 0-16 but by default they have to be on the upswing

Perfect plan (lol) to get the #1 pick. The Old Bengals would have pulled out another 4-12 or 5-11 December to Remember fraud of a finish

[membengal]

https://youtu.be/PzdfpEuaKBc

[Redsfaithful]

Serious question...what exactly has the current colts ownership done that makes them “completely dumb”?

They broke Andrew Luck, who is a once in a generation QB for any team - that would be my main point, but what do you mean "current"? The Irsay family has owned them since the 70's. Is it the narrative in Indy that Jim is better than his dad? That family has never been good ownership imo. Any franchise would have had the success they've managed to have with Manning & Luck. Probably many would have had far more - only getting to two Super Bowls in 20 years with a couple of QBs that good is brutal.

[redsfanmia]

They broke Andrew Luck, who is a once in a generation QB for any team - that would be my main point, but what do you mean "current"? The Irsay family has owned them since the 70's. Is it the narrative in Indy that Jim is better than his dad? That family has never been good ownership imo. Any franchise would have had the success they've managed to have with Manning & Luck. Probably many would have had far more - only getting to two Super Bowls in 20 years with a couple of QBs that good is brutal.

Bob was an embarrassment, he would get drunk and come in at half time and rip the team and try and fire the coach. Jim is a good solid owner who hires football people to run the organization and writes checks.

Luck is an eccentric guy and honestly even had he not been injured I don’t think he was going to be a 15-20 year qb.

[membengal]

I’m totally not seeing the trade back and take Herbert view at this point - 12 for 17 for 98 yards and a pick at the nine minute mark of the fourth quarter - he has run in three TDs now - two short and one longer just now. Maybe he is like Josh Allen?

[redsfanmia]

I’m totally not seeing the trade back and take Herbert view at this point - 12 for 17 for 98 yards and a pick at the nine minute mark of the fourth quarter - he has run in three TDs now - two short and one longer just now. Maybe he is like Josh Allen?
No way the Bengals pass on Burrow, I hope Herbert is in play for the Colts at 13.

[UKWhoDey]

If I go back 4 pages, am I going to see people trying to rationalize not taking Joe Burrow? Just stop. Stop now. Entertaining any thoughts of us actually implementing a long term plan and following through with it are futile. So take the best option you have to mitigate the garbage play. That's Joe.

What I would love for us to do is either sign Mariotta, who will want to be a starter, to a 1 or 2 yr deal and do what Miami did with Fitzmagic. Maybe we could convince Andy to do the same. Doubtful, but anyway....the point is sign a serviceable starter in FA. Draft Joe, and then draft OL help. We also need to rejuvenate the secondary. Those are the 3 primary concerns. A good OL to let Mixon get loose and protect Burrow is paramount to our success. But Burrow has long term real franchise potential. You can't pass that up. Either the front office will finally be smart enough to do what's necessary, or they won't. But you can't count on getting a top pick next year or any year. We have it. Draft the QB. And then get him protection.

[membengal]

UK - you will if you go to the previous thread. Lots of “trade back and take Herbert musings”. I do NOT agree with those who were saying it and nothing from Herbert changed my mind today.

[Sea Ray]

I’m totally not seeing the trade back and take Herbert view at this point - 12 for 17 for 98 yards and a pick at the nine minute mark of the fourth quarter - he has run in three TDs now - two short and one longer just now. Maybe he is like Josh Allen?

I think Josh Allen is much better than Justin Herbert. I see an Akili Smith in Justin Herbert, minus the alcoholism. Herbert is very athletic but I think his NFL comp is Ryan Mallett. As a Bengal fan, I want no part of him, although he does have an arm far superior to Burrow

[Kingspoint]

I'm optimistic that they can get back to competing for playoff spots in 2-3 years, although I'm certainly not guaranteeing it. I'm not optimistic that they'll ever compete for a Super Bowl.

What actions have they taken that makes you optimistic?

[Kingspoint]

Other than Chuck which coach has he hung onto too long? I’m talking Jimmy not his father. He misjudged Grigson and I will say I think Jimmy was in a bad place with opioids that clouded his judgement. They spend picks on the line to build it for Luck he just had the wrong guy picking the players.

Sorry to hijack the Bengals thread. I’m probably in the minority but I think Taylor will be fine and the Bengals are on the upswing.

Many of the Assistants I was referring to.

[Sea Ray]

Should there be any concern that no coaching changes whatsoever have taken place?

I know Taylor isn’t going anywhere or Anarumo, but how does Jim Taylor still have a job with Bill Callahan on the market?

We're only a few days into the "off season." It's way too early to say Bill Callahan won't be on this staff next year. Let's wait and see

[Hillsdale87]

Joe Goodberry posted an interesting stat. Dalton was pressured on 29% of dropbacks this year, which was actually 4th best in the league. Burrow was pressured on 29% of dropbacks this year as well.

Finley meanwhile was pressured on 49% of dropbacks, which goes to show how much QB play impacts those numbers. Dalton has always gotten the ball out pretty quickly. Burrow should be able to do the same, but should also be more effective when pressured than Dalton was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[North]

We're only a few days into the "off season." It's way too early to say Bill Callahan won't be on this staff next year. Let's wait and see

Dunno... it took them months to fill the coaching positions they have now. Folks with creds lift their legs on the prospect of working for Brown and company...who "build through the draft" but have a scrawny scouting staff comprised of two bosses and two scouts, who sign a decent FA now and again to appease the continually-gypped fans and taxpayers. What FAs they do sign is usually the result of dumpster diving.

But, it's a new year. Perhaps they will change stripes...

[Sea Ray]

Dunno... it took them months to fill the coaching positions they have now. Folks with creds lift their legs on the prospect of working for Brown and company...who "build through the draft" but have a scrawny scouting staff comprised of two bosses and two scouts, who sign a decent FA now and again to appease the continually-gypped fans and taxpayers. What FAs they do sign is usually the result of dumpster diving.

Which is my point. We'll see if coaching changes happen. I'm kinda torn on where I'd like to see changes. I would have originally said O line but I do think given the talent there or lack thereof , the production was good. How can the O coordinator be blamed if the head coach is calling the plays?

[bucksfan2]

Serious question...what exactly has the current colts ownership done that makes them “completely dumb”?

I think the Colts have been rather poorly run but hit the jackpot getting the #1 overall pick when a franchise changing QB was sitting there. Its not just the generational QB they drafted, but he was just sitting there, and everyone knew it for an entire season. It was like, well, if you tank this season you get a future Hall of Famer, and no one could really dispute that.

I think Dungy was vastly overrated as a coach. I think he did the bare minimum with the talent he was given. The best coach I think they had over the past two decades was Arians, and he was an intern coach.

I do think some of the Colts success can be attributed to the AFC South being a poor division for those Manning/Luck years. They had a built in advantage of almost 6 wins a season because the Titans, Jags, and Texans just weren't good teams.

In typing this, I don't think the Colts were dumb, I think they were very fortunate but just didn't make the moves to really put the team over the top.

[Redsfaithful]

Joe Goodberry posted an interesting stat. Dalton was pressured on 29% of dropbacks this year, which was actually 4th best in the league. Burrow was pressured on 29% of dropbacks this year as well.

Finley meanwhile was pressured on 49% of dropbacks, which goes to show how much QB play impacts those numbers. Dalton has always gotten the ball out pretty quickly. Burrow should be able to do the same, but should also be more effective when pressured than Dalton was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not going to be a popular opinion, but I hope they go best player available through the draft. I have changed my mind on offensive line. If the best player in round 2 or 3 or whatever is an offensive lineman, sure, otherwise just get the best player. I think they can roll with what they have maybe with a Bengals-style FA (scrap heap/character issue/career rebuild) addition.

If you have a tie between a few guys towards the top of the draft maybe you give the tiebreaker to OL/DL/LB but otherwise, just load up on talent.

[UKFlounder]

Sam Wyche has passed away, days before his 75th birthday.

:cry:

[membengal]

It's not going to be a popular opinion, but I hope they go best player available through the draft. I have changed my mind on offensive line. If the best player in round 2 or 3 or whatever is an offensive lineman, sure, otherwise just get the best player. I think they can roll with what they have maybe with a Bengals-style FA (scrap heap/character issue/career rebuild) addition.

If you have a tie between a few guys towards the top of the draft maybe you give the tiebreaker to OL/DL/LB but otherwise, just load up on talent.

It's a popular opinion with me.

[Sea Ray]

It's a popular opinion with me.

I liked him too. He was anything but a vanilla yes man. In fact he was a great guy

[KoryMac5]

Sam Wyche has passed away, days before his 75th birthday.

:cry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-Tzg0mho8

The moment that defined Sam Wyche...probably in my top 5 of Bengal moments.

[KoryMac5]

Bill Callahan is back on the market I wonder if the Bengals make a run at him for a position...

[Sea Ray]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-Tzg0mho8

The moment that defined Sam Wyche...probably in my top 5 of Bengal moments.

It's nice to see he's remembered for stuff like that rather than things like "there's tennis to be played..." and his timing debacle vs the 49ers on Sept 20th 1987

[KoryMac5]

Some really good video analysis of Fred Johnson...with the right coaching dude is going to be a steal.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/2/21043837/bengals-film-room-fred-johnson-left-tackle-2019

[RedsBaron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB-Tzg0mho8

The moment that defined Sam Wyche...probably in my top 5 of Bengal moments.
Thanks for posting that clip. I really liked Sam Wyche and I loved that moment. R.I.P.

[WVRed]

Just did a draft generator. Better chance of winning the lottery than the second round pick happening but you don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.

1: R1P1
QB JOE BURROW
LSU
33: R2P1
LB ISAIAH SIMMONS
CLEMSON
65: R3P1
WR LYNN BOWDEN
KENTUCKY
109: R4P1
G SHANE LEMIEUX
OREGON
148: R5P1
OT LUCAS NIANG
TCU
182: R6P1
DL MUSTAFA JOHNSON
COLORADO
217: R7P1
S JOSH METELLUS
MICHIGAN

[oregonred]

Sam Wyche was ahead of his time with the no huddle and break of tendencies offensive mindset

Pete Rozelle tried to sabotage the no huddle the day before the Super Bowl to protect the beloved 49ers

The 61-7 Houston Oiler shallacking over Jetty Glanville was one for the ages

RIP Sam

[Sea Ray]

Some really good video analysis of Fred Johnson...with the right coaching dude is going to be a steal.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/2/21043837/bengals-film-room-fred-johnson-left-tackle-2019

Let him compete for a job at LG and if we have someone better, he can be a swing 6th guy

[oregonred]

Let him compete for a job at LG and if we have someone better, he can be a swing 6th guy

Could be a steal and really helps the cause for 2020 in building a Burrow Wall. The FO may have actually woken up for once and pulled one over on the Stealers

OL strategy should be to get Steeler and Raven roster crunch LB and OL. Certain they are 100x better at scouting the O-Line than the Bengals.

[North]

Let him compete for a job at LG and if we have someone better, he can be a swing 6th guy

He's 6' 7". That's usually too tall for a guard.

[Sea Ray]

He's 6' 7". That's usually too tall for a guard.

His build seems to suggest LT so we'll see. He did mainly play guard at Florida in college

[membengal]

Just gonna leave this here:


https://youtu.be/tY7XRn2lWRs

[WVRed]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200105/5c53bccb0aacfbf3d5d0e30c8976e46d.jpg

[Rdirtypirates]

Just gonna leave this here:


https://youtu.be/tY7XRn2lWRs

Build a line around him and they may actually have a chance in the near future.

[North]

Build a line around him and they may actually have a chance in the near future.

Big if, unfortunately.

[Sea Ray]

I also think they have to give him an offense where he runs the ball a little. That's been part of his game in college and it's now part of the NFL game too. We saw this on display on both sides of the field in the Buff/Texans game. We're seeing it with almost every successful offense except for New Orleans. He need not run like Lamar Jackson but I'd like to see him run 5-10 times a game. The NFL has changed their rules and it's now more kind to running QBs and it gives defenses fits

[GAC]

The 61-7 Houston Oiler shallacking over Jetty Glanville was one for the ages

RIP Sam

The on-side kick when they were already beating the crap out of them. Sam had a vindictive streak. LOL

[Rdirtypirates]

The on-side kick when they were already beating the crap out of them. Sam had a vindictive streak. LOL

"Why did you go for two? Because I couldn't go for three."

[Todd Gack]

Sam Wyche was ahead of his time with the no huddle and break of tendencies offensive mindset

Pete Rozelle tried to sabotage the no huddle the day before the Super Bowl to protect the beloved 49ers

The 61-7 Houston Oiler shallacking over Jetty Glanville was one for the ages

RIP Sam

I actually went back and watched the game. Skimmed through to the time we got up 41-0 or whatever. I wasn't even 6-years-old yet so I don't remember the game. If you have time, watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys_w4ZPedIc&t=11666s

[Sea Ray]

The on-side kick when they were already beating the crap out of them. Sam had a vindictive streak. LOL

Sam wasn't the only one who hated Glanville. Chuck Knoll did with a passion

[Playadlc]

I actually went back and watched the game. Skimmed through to the time we got up 41-0 or whatever. I wasn't even 6-years-old yet so I don't remember the game. If you have time, watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys_w4ZPedIc&t=11666s

Thanks for posting this. I enjoy watching these old games.

[membengal]

Heckuva read from Bruce Feldman at the Athletic - he asked opposing d-coordinators from the SEC to scout LSU - I am gonna paste the stuff on the offense and Burrow:

https://theathletic.com/1510408/2020/01/06/scouting-lsu-what-coaches-who-faced-the-tigers-say-about-the-national-championship-finalists/


You don’t need to be Bill Belichick to see that LSU has gone from having a pedestrian offense to the most explosive attack in college football.

But as the Tigers, already winners of six Top 10 matchups this season, prepare for their toughest test yet against defending national champion Clemson, The Athletic spoke with 10 rival coaches who have faced Ed Orgeron’s team to break down just what makes them so good — and perhaps where they are vulnerable.

One defensive coordinator who has faced the Tigers assessed what makes them special this way: “The QB is elite. They have elite skill. They are on a magic ride. Rarest of seasons. Joe (Burrow) makes is all go. Reminds me of 2012 Manziel at A&M. Appreciate what you’re watching. Wish I didn’t have to experience it. And to be clear … Burrow is 1,000 percent better than Manziel. But the momentum he creates is like a tidal wave.”

Burrow’s numbers this season are jaw-dropping. He’s completing 78 percent of his passes and has thrown for 5,208 yards to go with a mind-boggling 55-to-6 TD-to-INT ratio. Burrow’s wheels also have caused all sorts of headaches for defenses, too. He has run for almost 500 yards if you don’t factor in negative sack yardage.

“He’s as playing as high a level as I’ve ever defended,” says an SEC defensive coordinator who faced LSU in November. “He knows what he’s doing; knows where he wants to go with the ball and does everything really confidently. His ability to make plays with his feet when you do cover him, or when things break down, is the added element that is really challenging when you’re trying to set up a plan to stop him.”

Asked to explain what makes Burrow so special, one SEC head coach rattled off a bunch of things in one sentence that probably also sum up why so many NFL scouts think he’ll be the first pick of the 2020 draft: “His confidence, how accurate he is, and how quickly he makes decisions; his off-platform throws outside of the pocket; the way he extends plays with his feet and improvises and keep his eyes downfield and how quickly he gets it out of his hands, that is unique.”

Burrow ran away with the Heisman Trophy by the biggest margin ever in large part because of how efficiently he pilots this offense and is able to utilize an array of dangerous skill players and every inch of the field. LSU is the first team in SEC history with a 4,000-yard passer, a 1,000-yard rusher and two 1,000-yard receivers in the same season.

Burrow is just one of several offensive players who you could argue was the breakout star in the SEC. Sophomore receiver Ja’Marr Chase went from 23 catches for 313 yards last season to 75 for 1559 yards and 18 touchdowns and the Biletnikoff Award. Clyde Edwards-Helaire went from being a relative unknown commodity to rushing for 1,304 yards to go with 50 catches and becoming the top all-around running back in college football. Thaddeus Moss went from being a non-factor to becoming one of the most productive tight ends in FBS. Justin Jefferson, the former two-star recruit, is tied with Chase for the most touchdown receptions in the country. Sophomore Terrace Marshall has 12 TD grabs despite missing three games to injury. It truly has been a case of pick-your-poison for opposing defenses.

“When you listen to their kids talk, they are playing with supreme confidence,” an SEC head coach said. “That’s more than half the battle.

“You’re not gonna stop them. Your best hope is just to slow them down and hope they make a mistake. You gotta hope for a few three-and-outs. This is gonna sound strange, but it’s almost like old Arena ball, where you’re hoping for just field goals, not TDs.”

Beyond Burrow, the offensive player that coaches cited as the biggest challenge is Edwards-Helaire, the 5-7, 209-pound junior.

“No. 22 is special with the way they use him,” one coach said. “He runs the inside zone; they’ll line up him in field or boundary No. 1. He can free release out of the backfield. His is versatility is a big key.”

“No. 22 (Edwards-Helaire), that damn running back does a hell of a job,” says an SEC defensive backs coach. “If you don’t stop him, you don’t have a shot. I’d put him against any other SEC back. He makes two or three guys miss from Alabama and got the first down. Tough, hard runner. He almost always is making the first guy miss. He’ll run over you, too. He’s a real key to that deal. To us, he’s the real headache. They hit him out the backfield. He runs corner routes for touchdowns.”

Another defensive coordinator The Athletic spoke to says the biggest issue for his team was what Edwards-Helaire does as a receiver. “They’re a throw-first team, and you have to defend them that way, but you can’t lose sight of him. When you do try and play two-safety looks and play over the top of the receivers, he’s able to win one-on-one with a linebacker. It’ll be interesting to see what (Clemson defensive coordinator Brent Venables) does with (freakishly athletic LB Isaiah) Simmons and if they match up their best corner (A.J. Terrell) with Chase.

“Chase seems to make every competitive catch,” said one defensive coordinator who played LSU late in the season. “You see it on film all year, and that’s what he did in our game. Their scheme allows for a lot of free releases, and I really like their receiver corps. It’s a deep group.”

For much of the season, opponents have strayed from what they typically do philosophically, playing LSU with their third-and-long or third-and-medium plan even though it’s first-and-10.

It’s the Tigers depth of playmakers that compounds the problems, says another defensive coordinator who got LSU later in the year. “The Jefferson kid is talented. I don’t think he’s elite, but when he becomes the third ‘thing’ that you’re talking about. He becomes a really good third thing. That’s where Oklahoma got some really bad matchups. He’s an NFL wide receiver — he’s not an ‘Oh my God!’ guy, but when you spend your game-plan worrying about other people, that’s when he becomes so effective. And that’s what Moss and Marshall are too. They’re talented players, don’t get me wrong. They’re not elite difference-makers, but they’re such an afterthought in the game plan because of how much time the other pieces take, they can get going, too. That, to me, is LSU in a nutshell.”

An SEC defensive backs coach whose team faced the Tigers when he suspects the 6-3, 200-pound Marshall wasn’t all the way back to 100 percent from his high-ankle injury says another aspect that makes LSU’s offense so lethal is that Chase and Jefferson are interchangeable in what they can do. “They mix both them both in the slot, and they’re great at getting mismatches inside on linebackers. Both of them do a hell of a job blocking. They both also have really strong hands.

“The biggest thing that they do well is the run after the catch. Those two and (Alabama’s Jerry) Jeudy were the best receivers I saw. They’re not quite as fast as Jeudy, but they are a little stronger.”

Up front, LSU won the Joe Moore Award as the nation’s top offensive line. The group has come a long way, reducing its sacks allowed percentage on pass attempts by around 33 percent and improving the running game from four yards per carry to almost five a carry. “It’s a good line, not a great line,” said one of the defensive coordinators. “I think they’ve got a bunch of late-round picks there. They’re better in the middle than they are at the tackles. (Offensive guard Damien Lewis) is probably their best guy. He’s strong as **** and has handled some big-time games he’s faced. The center (Lloyd Cushenberry) is a good player. The tackles are improved, but I think they’re only slightly above average. No. 76 (right tackle Austin Deculus) still has a lot of trouble with speed, but Burrow is so good at getting rid of it, he compensates well for it.”

So what would these coaches do in retrospect if facing LSU’s offense, or what do they think Venables might try?

“You have to defend five guys in routes on every play,” says one of the defensive coordinators. “Not a zone exists that allows for that. Which means you better be able to get rush with four and be able to play man to man. Ohio State would have had the personnel on every level to have a shot to do that. I don’t know Clemson personnel.”

The other defensive coordinator sounded less optimistic.

“I thought we did things the right way,” he says. “We probably tried to tweak things a little too much. We were doubling Chase and bracketing Edwards-Helaire with our linebackers and playing that into spy on Burrow. But the game just goes a little too fast. There were a few times early we kinda stopped the play but it still turned into a plus-30 because Joe just did something.

“What would I do differently? Just not play ’em.”

[WrongVerb]

Tua just declared.

You know that means Brown will trade out of the top pick and slide down to draft Tua, right?

[membengal]

A quick note on the piece I excerpted above - the quote from the SEC coordinator on the LSU line is really interesting - that it was a good BUT NOT great line in his estimation - and that Burrow made them much more effective by his play. That is...hella hopeful for what I think Burrow can help bring to Cincinnati. I suspect he is good enough to raise the play of even an average offensive line.

[membengal]

Tua just declared.

You know that means Brown will trade out of the top pick and slide down to draft Tua, right?

No. Not really. I actually think Tua declaring is the opposite and really good news for those of us who want Burrow. It means Miami can sit tight and take Tua at #5 rather than try and overwhelm Cincinnati to get to #1 overall to get to Burrow in a scenario where Tua has gone back to college.

[membengal]

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1214212139470209025

I wish I could get tweets to show up without you all having to click the link - but check that one out for the chart therein. Absolutely eye-popping with respect to Burrow vs. the rest of the QB class...

[Sea Ray]

Tua just declared.

You know that means Brown will trade out of the top pick and slide down to draft Tua, right?

I don't think so. The Brown family likes tall QBs. I don't think Tua tempts them at all

[membengal]

The Rams let Wade Phillips go for some weird reason. Now THERE is a hire I would dearly love to add to Taylor's staff - and there's an obvious connection there too...

[North]

The Rams let Wade Phillips go for some weird reason. Now THERE is a hire I would dearly love to add to Taylor's staff - and there's an obvious connection there too...

Owner Ralph Wilson fired Phillips in 1998 because he refused to can the Bills' special team coach after the Music City Miracle. How dumb was that?

[membengal]

Here's another holy crap Burrow chart - (definitely worth the click through since I still can't figure out how to embed):

https://twitter.com/PFF_Anthony/status/1214270915858567168

[Redsfaithful]

Joe Burrow is literally how the Bengals finally win a Super Bowl. This is it, right here.

[membengal]

Joe Burrow is literally how the Bengals finally win a Super Bowl. This is it, right here.

It is just about the only path I can envision, yes. IF he's truly amazing, it is the one thing that could MAYBE help them overcome the front office incompetence.

[RiverRat13]

Can't remember where I saw it (Twitter or maybe The Athletic), but Burrow will be invited to the Senior Bowl. He probably won't play in the game, but the Bengals see it as a chance to be with him all week to take stock... and the Burrows see it as a chance to take stock of the Bengals.

[North]

Not letting any grass growing, the Bengals ink a youthful long snapper to a futures contract (?):

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/6/21052202/bengals-sign-dan-godsil-to-futures-contract

Must be planning on doing a lot of punting next season... :D

[bucksfan2]

Can't remember where I saw it (Twitter or maybe The Athletic), but Burrow will be invited to the Senior Bowl. He probably won't play in the game, but the Bengals see it as a chance to be with him all week to take stock... and the Burrows see it as a chance to take stock of the Bengals.

The last time I can remember a player forcing himself from one organization was Eli and that was 16 years ago. I just don't buy the idea that Burrow will force himself out of going #1 to Cincy. And add to the fact that Mike Brown isn't going to let a guy walk who he drafted #1 overall.

The Burrow's can take stock of the Bengals organization, but they have as much leverage as I do in dictating what happens with the #1 overall pick.

[Sea Ray]

Joe Burrow is literally how the Bengals finally win a Super Bowl. This is it, right here.

Super Bowl, hell. I'll be thrilled with winning a playoff game. I'm tired of the media reminding us of that

[Sea Ray]

I really don't see Joe Burrow as a guy who'll refuse to play for the Bengals...but if he or anyone else did, Mike Brown would wait him out. No way he'd get traded

[Redsfaithful]

Super Bowl, hell. I'll be thrilled with winning a playoff game. I'm tired of the media reminding us of that

This is our guy.

[Hillsdale87]

Here's another holy crap Burrow chart - (definitely worth the click through since I still can't figure out how to embed):

https://twitter.com/PFF_Anthony/status/1214270915858567168

These embed fine for me on my phone, but not on my laptop for some reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[membengal]

Not letting any grass growing, the Bengals ink a youthful long snapper to a futures contract (?):

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/6/21052202/bengals-sign-dan-godsil-to-futures-contract

Must be planning on doing a lot of punting next season... :D

In all seriousness, he's signed simply to give Harris a break in mini-camps and training camp. He was with them last off-season too.

- - - Updated - - -


These embed fine for me on my phone, but not on my laptop for some reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, thanks. Probably for me too then - don't see the embed on my PC for whatever reason.

[Bob Sheed]

Burrow is 6'4''. Dalton is listed at 6'2''. Dalton is not 6'2''.

It will be fun to watch short passes over the middle not bounce off of linemen or sail high, because the QB can't see over his linemen.

[Kingspoint]

I will repeat it one more time:

Only the Chargers and Bengals have not traded away or acquired future draft picks at this point...the Chargers because they have been in extreme transformation and the Bengals because they just don't care.

For those who can't comprehend this, doing nothing is called apathy.

[Big Red Smokey]

There was a lot I liked about this year.
1) They actually completed the tank. Worst thing you can be in the NFL is 6-10 to 8-8. NFL Purgatory is a lonely place
2) Taylor and Co actually took stock of the roster/running game halfway through year at bye week and changed up a lot to improve. Liked the fact he wasn't beholden to the 11 personnel that this roster was absolutely not set up to succeed with.
3) Felt like a lot of guys played hard all year. Dunlap/Mixon got better even though the season was a lost season.

I have a lot of Aaron Rodgers feels for Joe Burrow, in that he's always looking down field and can deliver passes with accuracy on the run. Saw that Brees' longest throw of the season was 43 yards that was attempted Sunday and that was intercepted. Arm Strength anymore isn't the end all/be all. Burrow's intangibles are off the chart. It's a slam dunk pick.

[membengal]

Here's yet another great read trying to put Burrow's season in context from 538:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-joe-burrow-the-most-efficient-college-qb-ever/?ex_cid=story-twitter

Some highlights:


It has barely mattered what coverage a defense is in against Burrow. Burrow’s adjusted completion percentage of 82.5, which weights completions by air yards and excludes drops and throwaways, is the highest mark in the nine-season sample from the ESPN Stats & Information Group. (By comparison, starting major conference QBs over that same stretch recorded an average adjusted completion mark of 67.7 percent.) ESPN has tracked coverage splits the past two seasons, and Burrow’s completion marks receive top billing against man (72.0) and zone (77.6).3

...


Few are better than Burrow at buying time or can tout more absurd on-the-run accuracy. “We had a hard time, obviously, corralling him back there,” said Oklahoma coach Lincoln Riley, perhaps referring to the Peach Bowl play in which Burrow scrambled out of the pocket, sprinted toward his sideline, avoided a tackle and completed a fadeaway 30-yard pass while getting drilled. “We’re certainly not the only ones that have.” When pressured, Burrow still completes 73.9 percent of his passes, a clip 9.5 percentage points better than any other player in the country and the top mark produced by any QB since at least 2011.4. He also has a 211.2 passer efficiency rating, the highest among qualified passers over that stretch, and has thrown 19 touchdowns, five clear of any other QB in a single season.

...


It should also be mentioned that Burrow’s team has been so destructive — with the Tigers winning by an average margin of 27.2 points — that it has limited his performance. Burrow has logged only 95 snaps in the fourth quarter or overtime, which ranks outside the top 125 QBs nationally. But even without as many dropbacks as he could have accumulated, Burrow is still outperforming almost every other quarterback since 2004:

[Redsfaithful]

Loving all the hype.

[membengal]

Loving all the hype.

I am mostly just hoping it is SO obvious that not even Mike Brown can mess it up...

[WVRed]

I am mostly just hoping it is SO obvious that not even Mike Brown can mess it up...

If Mike Brown does mess this up, there are going to be a LOT of upset and pissed off Bengal fans, including myself.

[Sea Ray]

I love the hype too. Of course the final exam is Clemson. How does he do in that one?

[Redsfaithful]

I am mostly just hoping it is SO obvious that not even Mike Brown can mess it up...

I'm out if they don't take him, unless he blows up his leg next Monday or something. It's already close to pointless, but passing on him would really be the last straw. Getting a franchise QB is the only hope I have left.

[Assembly Hall]

I love the hype too. Of course the final exam is Clemson. How does he do in that one?

Kinda what I was thinking myself.

[Sea Ray]

I'm out if they don't take him, unless he blows up his leg next Monday or something. It's already close to pointless, but passing on him would really be the last straw. Getting a franchise QB is the only hope I have left.

God knows the Bengals, Mike Brown and Co have their issues but I don't worry about them taking someone else. This is right up their wheelhouse. They LOVE drafting QBs high. There was not any doubt that Carson Palmer was going to be their pick. They also love tall QBs (6'4" and above). They also love Ohio boys. They value accurate QBs, particularly after the Akili debacle. This pick checks all the boxes.

The Brown family has always felt that the NFL game starts with a franchise QB. Boomer was the highest paid QB in his day. They value and pay for franchise QBs.

[Redsfaithful]

God knows the Bengals, Mike Brown and Co have their issues but I don't worry about them taking someone else. This is right up their wheelhouse. They LOVE drafting QBs high. There was not any doubt that Carson Palmer was going to be their pick. They also love tall QBs (6'4" and above). They also love Ohio boys. They value accurate QBs, particularly after the Akili debacle. This pick checks all the boxes.

The Brown family has always felt that the NFL game starts with a franchise QB. Boomer was the highest paid QB in his day. They value and pay for franchise QBs.

You really couldn't draw it up any better, I don't think there's any doubt what they are going to do here.

[membengal]

I love the hype too. Of course the final exam is Clemson. How does he do in that one?

I feel like he has already had a ton of final exams, Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, Miss State, Oklahoma etc - all full of NFL ready defensive players. I don't really need to see anything else from him.

[WVRed]

I feel like he has already had a ton of final exams, Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, Miss State, Oklahoma etc - all full of NFL ready defensive players. I don't really need to see anything else from him.

I think Ohio State would have been a better final exam especially going against Chase Young. But we will never know.

[Kingspoint]

Congrats to Darrin Simmons and his new contract after leading the Bengals' Special Teams Units to the #1 Overall DVOA ranking for this season.

[North]

I love the hype too. Of course the final exam is Clemson. How does he do in that one?

He should do fine. Clemson's not all that..if OSU qb Fields had healthy legs, they beat Clemson easily, even with the lousy reffing. IMO.

[KoryMac5]

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/09/bengals-have-had-close-eye-joe-burrow/

Bengals have been scouting Burrow since last year....

I do love the title Director of College Scouting, sounds very official until you realize the Bengals have like 2 scouts.

[North]

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/09/bengals-have-had-close-eye-joe-burrow/

Bengals have been scouting Burrow since last year....

I do love the title Director of College Scouting, sounds very official until you realize the Bengals have like 2 scouts.

Same 'ol snake oil...

15533

[Kingspoint]

I am mostly just hoping it is SO obvious that not even Mike Brown can mess it up...

I don't think Mike Brown would mess it up. I wish Mike Brown was in charge as I'm 100% confident he would get this right. Every action from the Bengals since 13 months ago demonstrates that he relinquished operational control to his heirs and is simply there in an advisory role. I like what Mike Brown did the last dozen years before 13 months ago when actions from Ownership took an about face from what had trended for the previous dozen years.

[Ohayou]

OL Creed Humphrey returning to Oklahoma. He was the most common name I saw being projected as the Bengals 2nd round pick.

[Kingspoint]

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/09/bengals-have-had-close-eye-joe-burrow/

Bengals have been scouting Burrow since last year....

I do love the title Director of College Scouting, sounds very official until you realize the Bengals have like 2 scouts.

Thought they had four, plus Duke as Head of Player Personnel/Scouting/Trash Collector/Assistant to the G.M. who shall not be named?

[Boss-Hog]

I don't think Mike Brown would mess it up. I wish Mike Brown was in charge as I'm 100% confident he would get this right. Every action from the Bengals since 13 months ago demonstrates that he relinquished operational control to his heirs and is simply there in an advisory role. I like what Mike Brown did the last dozen years before 13 months ago when actions from Ownership took an about face from what had trended for the previous dozen years.This hasn't been a 13 month ago thing. The writing has been on the wall for many years locally that Mike has been grooming Katie to take over the day-to-day operations for quite some time. As far as the personnel decisions, I believe Tobin has mostly been given the green light to do his thing since he was promoted back in 2011, I believe. Ultimately, Mike still holds the final say on just about all matters, but I'm pretty confident he's gradually been ceding control of the front office to his family and Duke Tobin for a lot longer than the past 13 months.

[KoryMac5]

This hasn't been a 13 month ago thing. The writing has been on the wall for many years locally that Mike has been grooming Katie to take over the day-to-day operations for quite some time. As far as the personnel decisions, I believe Tobin has mostly been given the green light to do his thing since he was promoted back in 2011, I believe. Ultimately, Mike still holds the final say on just about all matters, but I'm pretty confident he's gradually been ceding control of the front office to his family and Duke Tobin for a lot longer than the past 13 months.

I thought that as well and then this trade deadline came and went without any action despite having several pieces that could have been dealt for picks...my thinking is Brown still has final say over all personnel decisions.

[Boss-Hog]

I thought that as well and then this trade deadline came and went without any action despite having several pieces that could have been dealt for picks...my thinking is Brown still has final say over all personnel decisions.He's the owner and president, and he definitely does. The "not in the business of making other teams better" sounds exactly like something that would come out of his mouth. His philosophies of how to run a team undoubtedly trickle down to his kids and Duke.

[Kingspoint]

This hasn't been a 13 month ago thing. The writing has been on the wall for many years locally that Mike has been grooming Katie to take over the day-to-day operations for quite some time. As far as the personnel decisions, I believe Tobin has mostly been given the green light to do his thing since he was promoted back in 2011, I believe. Ultimately, Mike still holds the final say on just about all matters, but I'm pretty confident he's gradually been ceding control of the front office to his family and Duke Tobin for a lot longer than the past 13 months.

Absolutely! Mike Brown is a cautious conservative. Nothing happens in his world accept gradually through baby steps. I picked 13 months ago as the moment the baton was handed off because of the move away from Marvin and the poor hiring process of the new Coach. It just seemed apparent to me that 13 months ago, things were "unofficially" handed over and Mike was willing to let them make their own mistakes just as he had to do and learn from. The difference is that he's still around to be their advisor where Paul was dead. Paul groomed Mike similarly, but Mike never made major decisions while Paul was alive and I think Katie and company are running mostly everything now.

[Kingspoint]

If this is true, as I believe, there is still some hope as it was natural for Katie and company to err on the side of fiscally responsible when first handed the reigns. Now they have to make their first adjustments with the luxury of having all of their picks, including the first overall pick of Day 1, Day 2, and Day 3. All we can do is watch and observe.

[Redsfaithful]

The problems of ownership are very real with the Bengals, but I don't think they are insurmountable with a good coach and franchise QB.

Also, they are going to have to spend some money this offseason on something, if they cut Dalton and Kirkpatrick they'll be way under the spending floor I think? Does anyone know the actual number that would put them at?

[Kingspoint]

The problems of ownership are very real with the Bengals, but I don't think they are insurmountable with a good coach and franchise QB.

Also, they are going to have to spend some money this offseason on something, if they cut Dalton and Kirkpatrick they'll be way under the spending floor I think? Does anyone know the actual number that would put them at?

Everyone's cuttable. That's the nature of NFL contracts. Even with the recent push for more guaranteed money by star players, it's an arena the Bengals have not, and will likely never, participate in. They should always remain at the bottom-five of franchises regarding gauranteed money. So, whenever they whine that they don't have any cap space, it's simply never anywhere close to the truth.

[Boss-Hog]

The problems of ownership are very real with the Bengals, but I don't think they are insurmountable with a good coach and franchise QB.

Also, they are going to have to spend some money this offseason on something, if they cut Dalton and Kirkpatrick they'll be way under the spending floor I think? Does anyone know the actual number that would put them at?I'm not sure the number, but factor Glenn into it, too. According to Dehner, he's as good as gone.

[Redsfaithful]

I'm not sure the number, but factor Glenn into it, too. According to Dehner, he's as good as gone.

That's a lot of cash! Has to go somewhere - that's why I think the AJ Green stuff has been overblown.

[KoryMac5]

Absolutely! Mike Brown is a cautious conservative. Nothing happens in his world accept gradually through baby steps. I picked 13 months ago as the moment the baton was handed off because of the move away from Marvin and the poor hiring process of the new Coach. It just seemed apparent to me that 13 months ago, things were "unofficially" handed over and Mike was willing to let them make their own mistakes just as he had to do and learn from. The difference is that he's still around to be their advisor where Paul was dead. Paul groomed Mike similarly, but Mike never made major decisions while Paul was alive and I think Katie and company are running mostly everything now.

He is 84, be 85 this year he has to feel that he doesn't have much time left, you would think at some point he would have a come to Jesus moment in regards to his approach, but so far it has not happened. Stubborn man in his approach.

[Kingspoint]

He is 84, be 85 this year he has to feel that he doesn't have much time left, you would think at some point he would have a come to Jesus moment in regards to his approach, but so far it has not happened. Stubborn man in his approach.

He's not an all-in, push in the chips, kind of guy, even when he doesn't have a lot of chips left to push in.

[Bob Sheed]

Paul Brown passed on a fair amount of baggage to his son.

Control comes first. Even at the expense of winning.
Loyalty comes second. Even at the expense of winning.
Winning, as a priority... is a very distant third.

Winning was top priority for Paul Brown. Until he got burned in Cleveland. Paul Brown had great success with the Buckeyes and in Cleveland. But if you look at his track record after he was run out of Cleveland, it's pretty average. 2 Super Bowl losses and a handful of playoff appearances in 22 years. Not exactly a dynasty.

Basically, as soon as Paul Brown abandoned his "win at all costs" mentality in favor of his loss-of-control paranoia that he passed down to his son, he became quite average as a coach and as a team owner. Poor decisions stemming from that paranoia cost the Bengals as a franchise dearly. Bill Walsh comes to mind. There are countless other examples.

And Mike Brown is Paul Brown without the football acumen. His daughter, even more so.

It's just too bad that Paul Brown took the betrayal in Cleveland as hard as he did. Not only did that drive his decision making from that point on, to the detriment of on-field success, but he also passed his baggage down to his kids. Now here we are in the 3rd generation of Brown ownership and actions/results are pretty much the same.

[Kingspoint]

I think if Greg Cook hadn't been injured, there would have been a dynasty. Cook is why I became a Bengals' fan. We speak of Kenny Anderson being Hall worthy, but Anderson was pretty mediocre compared to Cook. Everything in the AFC in the '70's would have been different,...for Oakland, for Miami and for Pittsburgh.

[texasdave]

I think if Greg Cook hadn't been injured, there would have been a dynasty. Cook is why I became a Bengals' fan. We speak of Kenny Anderson being Hall worthy, but Anderson was pretty mediocre compared to Cook. Everything in the AFC in the '70's would have been different,...for Oakland, for Miami and for Pittsburgh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVzDtrgybjc

[Bob Sheed]

I think if Greg Cook hadn't been injured, there would have been a dynasty. Cook is why I became a Bengals' fan. We speak of Kenny Anderson being Hall worthy, but Anderson was pretty mediocre compared to Cook. Everything in the AFC in the '70's would have been different,...for Oakland, for Miami and for Pittsburgh.

I never got to see Cook play, but everyone says he was a generational talent before he got injured. Hopefully the Bengals are about to get another generational talent in Burrow.

EDIT: Just watched that video. What a shame...

And I agree about Kenny Anderson. He was an intelligent game manager but nothing special, talent-wise. He was even benched for a while in favor of Jack Thompson. He sure could take a beating though, that's for sure. Not HoF material though. I always thought Esiason was better, although he had a much shorter career.

If I'm ranking Bengals QBs, it has to be
Palmer
Esiason
Anderson
Dalton
a big what-if with Cook
Blake

...and then a whole bunch of mediocre.

[Kingspoint]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVzDtrgybjc

Thanks, texasdave.

[KoryMac5]

I see a little bit of Cook in Burrow...Burrow's able to move well in the pocket and always has his eyes up field reading the D. After all the years of bad luck we have had I think it's time to exorcise the demons with Burrow.

[KoryMac5]

Some positive news for FA Bengals might not be able to carry over their usual 10 mil according to Goodberry and others

[KoryMac5]

Darrin Simmons promoted to Asst Head Coach...good move by the Bengals as some had speculated the Hoodie would make a run at him.

[chicoruiz]

Darrin Simmons promoted to Asst Head Coach...good move by the Bengals as some had speculated the Hoodie would make a run at him.

I had thought maybe that the "assistant head coach" title might be offered to Bill Callahan to help lure him here.

[GAC]

Paul Brown passed on a fair amount of baggage to his son.

Control comes first. Even at the expense of winning.
Loyalty comes second. Even at the expense of winning.
Winning, as a priority... is a very distant third.

Winning was top priority for Paul Brown. Until he got burned in Cleveland. Paul Brown had great success with the Buckeyes and in Cleveland. But if you look at his track record after he was run out of Cleveland, it's pretty average. 2 Super Bowl losses and a handful of playoff appearances in 22 years. Not exactly a dynasty.

Basically, as soon as Paul Brown abandoned his "win at all costs" mentality in favor of his loss-of-control paranoia that he passed down to his son, he became quite average as a coach and as a team owner. Poor decisions stemming from that paranoia cost the Bengals as a franchise dearly. Bill Walsh comes to mind. There are countless other examples.

And Mike Brown is Paul Brown without the football acumen. His daughter, even more so.

It's just too bad that Paul Brown took the betrayal in Cleveland as hard as he did. Not only did that drive his decision making from that point on, to the detriment of on-field success, but he also passed his baggage down to his kids. Now here we are in the 3rd generation of Brown ownership and actions/results are pretty much the same.

He went from being a head coach to an owner, and all the "baggage" that comes with it.

It's ironic to some degree (IMO) because Paul Brown became that which he detested, and had a very tense relationship with - an owner. When he was the head coach at Cleveland for all those years he "ran" the team/organization, except when it came to the administrative/financial aspect - which was the owners job, just stay the hell out of my way! And they did because he not only won, but they feared the guy. LOL

When he started the Bengals, and was not only the head coach, but "the boss, the head man, top dog, big cheese, head honcho, number one" where everything was on his shoulders ... he saw how difficult it could be. He was also growing older.

[KoryMac5]

He went from being a head coach to an owner, and all the "baggage" that comes with it.

It's ironic to some degree (IMO) because Paul Brown became that which he detested, and had a very tense relationship with - an owner. When he was the head coach at Cleveland for all those years he "ran" the team/organization, except when it came to the administrative/financial aspect - which was the owners job, just stay the hell out of my way! And they did because he not only won, but they feared the guy. LOL

When he started the Bengals, and was not only the head coach, but "the boss, the head man, top dog, big cheese, head honcho, number one" where everything was on his shoulders ... he saw how difficult it could be. He was also growing older.

and he was also stubborn as well with his refusal to promote Bill Walsh to head coach...instead going with Tiger Johnson who had worked under Walsh.

[chicoruiz]

The biggest irony is that Paul Brown is famous for being an innovator, while his descendants have become the epitome of “the way we’ve always done it is just fine”.

[Bob Sheed]

The biggest irony is that Paul Brown is famous for being an innovator, while his descendants have become the epitome of “the way we’ve always done it is just fine”.

Can't say he was much of an innovator while coaching/owning the Bengals. If anything, by that point, if he saw innovation, he was threatened by it and drove it away.

[redsfanmia]

Can't say he was much of an innovator while coaching/owning the Bengals. If anything, by that point, if he saw innovation, he was threatened by it and drove it away.
Under his watch in Cincinnati didn’t they run/develop the West Coast offense and the no huddle offense?

[Big Red Smokey]

The Bengals have had 2 Quarterbacks the last 16 years and did a fantastic job of building contenders around them in accordance with their drafting of them.

The fact we're going to have a rookie QB deal for 5 years... and along with basically 2 additional first round picks (Jonah and 33) means that this could be another 2011 esque season right away if things break right.

This also is based on resigning AJ Green. They're going to have the money.

I'm cautiously optimistic. QB's on rookie deals are the best deal in sports. Gotta take advantage. 5 year window starting now

[chicoruiz]

The Bengals have had 2 Quarterbacks the last 16 years and did a fantastic job of building contenders around them in accordance with their drafting of them.

The fact we're going to have a rookie QB deal for 5 years... and along with basically 2 additional first round picks (Jonah and 33) means that this could be another 2011 esque season right away if things break right.

This also is based on resigning AJ Green. They're going to have the money.

I'm cautiously optimistic. QB's on rookie deals are the best deal in sports. Gotta take advantage. 5 year window starting now

The upside is the path to respectability is pretty straightforward: get deals with Green and Mixon, draft Burrow, and sign two or three quality free agents, mostly at OL and LB. The downside is that no matter how obvious that seems, we longtime Bengal fans have zero confidence that the front office will actually do these things...

[Big Red Smokey]

The upside is the path to respectability is pretty straightforward: get deals with Green and Mixon, draft Burrow, and sign two or three quality free agents, mostly at OL and LB. The downside is that no matter how obvious that seems, we longtime Bengal fans have zero confidence that the front office will actually do these things...

I mean, if the empty seats this year along with city-wide apathy doesn't invoke changes in how the team is built/ran....

Then I would say there's a good chance 2026 is the last year of the Bengals in Cincy. Stadium lease is up, the city isn't footing the bill again after the last debacle. And the Brown/Blackburn clan isn't going to spend a dime of their own money to finance any sort of stadium or massive renovation needed.

I know it's very doom-like, but they held the city over the barrel of a gun before to get what they wanted, they're going to do it again.

With the threat of LA no longer being used to hold cities captive, I could see that clan openly volunteering for London if the money is right.

[Redsfaithful]

Joe Goodberry pointed out on Twitter that the 49ers won 4 games last year, the Packers won 6.

There's no reason the Bengals can't contend this year, if they want to try. I'm not saying conference championship contend, but they could be good.

They have money to spend, the QB will be there, and they have the opportunity to cash in at the draft. The way the draft is set up now is so hugely advantageous for the team picking at the top of each round.

[Kingspoint]

Joe Goodberry pointed out on Twitter that the 49ers won 4 games last year, the Packers won 6.

There's no reason the Bengals can't contend this year, if they want to try. I'm not saying conference championship contend, but they could be good.

They have money to spend, the QB will be there, and they have the opportunity to cash in at the draft. The way the draft is set up now is so hugely advantageous for the team picking at the top of each round.

One has nothing to do with another. Stupid comparisons. I'm sorry.

[Redsfaithful]

One has nothing to do with another. Stupid comparisons. I'm sorry.

Shows what's possible in a one-year turnaround, and it's a particularly apt comparison since we know for a fact the Bengals look at Green Bay as a team with a model not dissimilar to their own. So we'll have to disagree here.

[GAC]

Under his watch in Cincinnati didn’t they run/develop the West Coast offense and the no huddle offense?

While they were different, there were actually two "West Coast" offenses (Air Coryell, Bill Walsh). But yeah, Brown gave Walsh the task of developing an offensive scheme for an accurate, but weak armed, QB named Virgil Carter (I'm actually old enough to remember him), that utilized short, high percentage passes.

Brown coached the Bengals for 8 years (68-75). While he had a few winning seasons, he retired in '75 with a record of 55-56 -1 (.495). He made the post-season three times, and three times a first round exit. Brown saw the writing on the wall, and that the game had changed too dramatically for him. He was in his late 60s when he retired.

He introduced a lot of innovations to the game. Most are still in use today too. But the problem with innovators is that everyone else adopts your methods too. So you're always having to adapt, come up with something new to stay ahead of the curve. But he gave "birth" to future innovators who blossomed only after they left Cincinnati (and Brown's control). IMO, that's why he chose Johnson over Walsh. Control. The relationship that developed between Walsh and DeBartolo, IMO, showed Paul Brown what he could have had if he hadn't been such an A-hole.

But here's another example of how much of a vindictive SOB Brown could be ....

https://web.archive.org/web/20130619054859/http://articles.latimes.com/2006/dec/22/sports/sp-walsh22/3


He was a Cincinnati Bengals assistant for seven seasons under legendary coach Paul Brown but was passed over in favor of Bill "Tiger" Johnson when Brown retired in 1975. Walsh, who subsequently resigned, said Brown "worked against my candidacy" to be a head coach anywhere in the league.

"All the way through I had opportunities, and I never knew about them," he said. "And then when I left him, he called whoever he thought was necessary to keep me out of the NFL."

Was it jealousy?

"I can't say," said Walsh, who didn't get his first NFL head-coaching job until he was 47. "He did that to other people too, it wasn't just me. But I was probably the most blatant one."

[bucksfan2]

Joe Goodberry pointed out on Twitter that the 49ers won 4 games last year, the Packers won 6.

There's no reason the Bengals can't contend this year, if they want to try. I'm not saying conference championship contend, but they could be good.

They have money to spend, the QB will be there, and they have the opportunity to cash in at the draft. The way the draft is set up now is so hugely advantageous for the team picking at the top of each round.

I agree, but I also saw an interesting article from a Saints reporter. He/she was asking what it would take for the Saints to trade up for Burrow. Would we be ok with three #1's (2020.21.22) as well as a 2nd and 3rd rounder this year and a bivy of late round picks?

[KoryMac5]

3 1st rounders is tough to pass up until you realize that the Saints will be picking at the bottom of the first round for those 3 yrs...

[WVRed]

I agree, but I also saw an interesting article from a Saints reporter. He/she was asking what it would take for the Saints to trade up for Burrow. Would we be ok with three #1's (2020.21.22) as well as a 2nd and 3rd rounder this year and a bivy of late round picks?

The only scenario I would even come close to entertaining is Miami.

2020 1st rounders (5, 18, 27)
2020 2nd rounders (39, 56)
2021 1st round picks

Of those picks, no QB until 2021 and hope Lawrence or Fields are there.

[Plus Plus]

The only scenario I would even come close to entertaining is Miami.

2020 1st rounders (5, 18, 27)
2020 2nd rounders (39, 56)
2021 1st round picks

Of those picks, no QB until 2021 and hope Lawrence or Fields are there.

I agree, but I don't even love that plan. The Bengals are already a couple of bounces away from picking 5th, and with health could just be swirling the drain for a decade by winning 4-6 games over and over again.

First overall picks don't happen very often, and there's a very good prospect there. Don't overthink it by trying to grab value now, let the value come to you after your team has a semblance of stability.

[WVRed]

I agree, but I don't even love that plan. The Bengals are already a couple of bounces away from picking 5th, and with health could just be swirling the drain for a decade by winning 4-6 games over and over again.

First overall picks don't happen very often, and there's a very good prospect there. Don't overthink it by trying to grab value now, let the value come to you after your team has a semblance of stability.

I’m definitely in the Burrow camp, but Miami would be the only team that could come close to offering anything close to what it would take to get me to move off of that and it’s not going to happen.

[membengal]

I would want at least five first round picks to even think about it. And even then, I likely would not do it.

[North]

I would want at least five first round picks to even think about it. And even then, I likely would not do it.

There are a couple of hurdles to go

1. Burrow getting hurt tonight.

2. That Mike & Co. get enamored with one of the Senior Bowl quarterbacks, decide he's their man, and trade out of the top spot for value, value, VALUE !!!

[WrongVerb]

There are a couple of hurdles to go

1. Burrow getting hurt tonight.

2. That Mike & Co. get enamored with one of the Senior Bowl quarterbacks, decide he's their man, and trade out of the top spot for value, value, VALUE !!!

If #1 doesn't happen, then I'd lay money that #2 will. If there's any team that will go to great lengths to sabotage its own success, it's the Bengals.

[Sea Ray]

If #1 doesn't happen, then I'd lay money that #2 will. If there's any team that will go to great lengths to sabotage its own success, it's the Bengals.

When they draft Burrow #1 three months from now, come back and tell us how much money you lost. Don't make us dig up this post

[Bob Sheed]

If #1 doesn't happen, then I'd lay money that #2 will. If there's any team that will go to great lengths to sabotage its own success, it's the Bengals.

I know Mike Brown's m.o.

The last draft pick that was in Mike Brown's wheelhouse even close to the degree that Joe Burrow is, was Carson Palmer. And Burrow even surpasses that because he's local.

[WrongVerb]

When they draft Burrow #1 three months from now, come back and tell us how much money you lost. Don't make us dig up this post

Dig it up. I don't care. Thing is, I don't find being wrong about baseless assertions like this to be a source of embarrassment. Maybe you do?

[Sea Ray]

Dig it up. I don't care. Thing is, I don't find being wrong about baseless assertions like this to be a source of embarrassment. Maybe you do?

I want you to save me the trouble. I don't want to have to search through all your dribble. Just come back and tell how you were wrong

[Bob Sheed]

I'm telling you...

Mike Brown is "lets turn the thermostat at PBS offices up a half-of-a-degree, for a couple of hours" psyched about Joe Burrow. :jump:

He's "almost makes me want to do more than the bare minimum with non-cap related expenditures" kind of psyched. :roll:
He's "maybe I should trade in the Lumina for a slightly newer used Lumina" kind of psyched. :party:

[Kingspoint]

Shows what's possible in a one-year turnaround, and it's a particularly apt comparison since we know for a fact the Bengals look at Green Bay as a team with a model not dissimilar to their own. So we'll have to disagree here.

Bengals and Packers have zero similarities. This isn't up for opinion.

Packers have shareholders, for one. The Bengals are on the opposite end of that spectrum with control-freak Ownership.

Shouldn't have to waste type going over this stuff. Hate it when Bengals fans say we can do such and such because another franchise does such and such.

Packers and 49er's want to win. Bengals do not. Opposite ends of the spectrum.

49er's have a Top-3 G.M. in Lynch who had a distinct plan to get their franchise to competing for a Super Bowl on a yearly basis. This year's results are an expected outcome from the work and moves put in the previous four seasons. The Bengals are at the other end of the spectrum. They have no G.M. They have no plan for on-field achievement, unless the plan was to be the worst team in 2019 in order to get the #1 pick, which everyone knows was not the plan, or else they would have traded off assets like the Dolphins did in order to acquire draft picks that would help their #1 pick of 2020.

Packers have the best player in the NFL over the last 10 years. They just needed to get rid of the crappy Head Coach McCarthy and let Rodgers get healthy again. There's no MVP Quarterback leading the Bengals next year. They will be at the opposite end of the spectrum starting a Rookie QB. Bengals will win 5 or 6 games only if all the Stars allign together.

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals have had 2 Quarterbacks the last 16 years and did a fantastic job of building contenders around them in accordance with their drafting of them.

The fact we're going to have a rookie QB deal for 5 years... and along with basically 2 additional first round picks (Jonah and 33) means that this could be another 2011 esque season right away if things break right.

This also is based on resigning AJ Green. They're going to have the money.

I'm cautiously optimistic. QB's on rookie deals are the best deal in sports. Gotta take advantage. 5 year window starting now

I don't see a Mike Zimmer hiring on the defensive side of the ball in the near future. He was more responsible for the Bengals' success than anyone in the organization, including any players. He was always passed over because of his interviews for a D.C. position even though he excelled as a DB's Coach.

With no G.M. on this franchise, and inexperienced ownership running football operations, there's zero reasons anyone can point to that the Bengals will do the hundreds of things necessary to take advantage of lucking into Joe Burrows. Colts couldn't do it with Andrew Luck despite having dozens of examples why they could that the Bengals simply do not have.

All examples have to come from what they have done the last 13 months. I see getting rid of Marvin as a positive, but it was probably for the wrong reason. The kids probably got rid of him because they wouldn't have been able to have the power they wanted with him around versus getting rid of him because of his incompetence.

[Hillsdale87]

Bengals and Packers have zero similarities. This isn't up for opinion.

Packers have shareholders, for one. The Bengals are on the opposite end of that spectrum with control-freak Ownership.

Shouldn't have to waste type going over this stuff. Hate it when Bengals fans say we can do such and such because another franchise does such and such.

Packers and 49er's want to win. Bengals do not. Opposite ends of the spectrum.

49er's have a Top-3 G.M. in Lynch who had a distinct plan to get their franchise to competing for a Super Bowl on a yearly basis. This year's results are an expected outcome from the work and moves put in the previous four seasons. The Bengals are at the other end of the spectrum. They have no G.M. They have no plan for on-field achievement, unless the plan was to be the worst team in 2019 in order to get the #1 pick, which everyone knows was not the plan, or else they would have traded off assets like the Dolphins did in order to acquire draft picks that would help their #1 pick of 2020.

Packers have the best player in the NFL over the last 10 years. They just needed to get rid of the crappy Head Coach McCarthy and let Rodgers get healthy again. There's no MVP Quarterback leading the Bengals next year. They will be at the opposite end of the spectrum starting a Rookie QB. Bengals will win 5 or 6 games only if all the Stars allign together.

Bengals won 4 games in 2010 and made the playoffs the next year. Is that an example you'll accept? It's not likely that the Bengals make the playoffs next year, but it's also not impossible. If Burrow plays well and they actually get healthy, there's a path. It's far more likely that they'll be bad, but a good QB changes a ton.

Also, McCarthy's woes have been extremely overstated. He wasn't great, but Rodgers was basically the same QB this year as he has been the last 5 years. Their defense got a little better, and they had some good fortune. Turnarounds can happen very quickly in the NFL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hillsdale87]

LSU's first play didn't count, but I'm looking forward to Burrow doing that for the Bengals next year. He is so fun to watch.

Matt Miller, B/R's draft expert, just tweeted that he's the most pro-ready prospect since Luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WrongVerb]

I want you to save me the trouble. I don't want to have to search through all your dribble. Just come back and tell how you were wrong

Lol whatever dude

[Big Red Smokey]

Got a lot of Aaron Rodgers feels with Jeauxy Burreaux

[Boss-Hog]

I want you to save me the trouble. I don't want to have to search through all your dribble. Just come back and tell how you were wrong
Lol whatever dudeI wouldn't suggest bringing any bickering from the politics area outside of there. Any continuation of this should be taken to PMs.

[membengal]

Joe Burrow is a superstar.

[Sea Ray]

Lol whatever dude

Dude...it goes both ways . I encourage you to come if you’re right too and I’ll sing your praises

[Sea Ray]

I wouldn't suggest bringing any bickering from the politics area outside of there. Any continuation of this should be taken to PMs.

This has nothing to do with politics on my end, Boss. I encourage anyone who makes predictions to stand behind them and not disappear. That’s all I’m asking of him and I’d ask the same of anyone else, including myself

[Redsfaithful]

Packers have shareholders, for one.

That's meaningless.

The similarities are that the Packers generally don't spend in free agency (this has changed recently, and makes me wonder if the Bengals might be about to change also), and they ride franchise QBs, which the Bengals are about to have.

I think Taylor's plan was to replace Dalton after a bad year (there's really no other plausible explanation for why they started Finley for that stretch), so again, have to just disagree.

[membengal]

463 yards passing and 5 TDs. 57 more yards rushing and another TD. Against the top defense in college football in a national title game against a team that had won 29 in a row.

There’s literally no package the bengals should consider to trade back. He represents legit hope to the fan base. And a legit nfl skill set.

[Sea Ray]

463 yards passing and 5 TDs. 57 more yards rushing and another TD. Against the top defense in college football in a national title game against a team that had won 29 in a row.

There’s literally no package the bengals should consider to trade back. He represents legit hope to the fan base. And a legit nfl skill set.

No way you trade the pick now.

What do you think about trying to lure Joe Brady to coordinate our offense?

[WrongVerb]

463 yards passing and 5 TDs. 57 more yards rushing and another TD. Against the top defense in college football in a national title game against a team that had won 29 in a row.

There’s literally no package the bengals should consider to trade back. He represents legit hope to the fan base. And a legit nfl skill set.

The more impressive thing was the execution of the in game adjustments to the unusual defensive look Clemson was giving LSU. That's elite level stuff right there.

[Big Klu]

If I'm ranking Bengals QBs, it has to be
Palmer
Esiason
Anderson
Dalton
a big what-if with Cook
Blake

...and then a whole bunch of mediocre.

I would rank Boomer first, followed by Anderson and then Palmer. For the top two, leading the team to a Super Bowl counts for a lot.

1. Esiason
2. Anderson
3. Palmer
4. Dalton
5. Cook
6. Blake

[BuckeyeRedleg]

If the Bengals don’t take Burrow, I’m done.

[membengal]

If the Bengals don’t take Burrow, I’m done.

Me as well.

[GAC]

If Mike, or his progeny, are any type of business people at all, I think they would see that initial investments (Burrow's cost) will be well over-shadowed by increased sales of an improved product people want (to see). It's just good business.

You pass over Burrows - WHEN YOU NEED A QB - the team won't have to move, but you will (LOL)

[membengal]

En route to the single greatest QB season in college football history, Burrow and LSU beat Florida, Alabama, Auburn , Georgia, Texas, Oklahoma and Clemson.

In the sec title game and the two playoff games against Georgia, Oklahoma and Clemson alone Burrow threw for 16 TDs and 0 INT and almost 1500 yards.

[ScotlandRed]

PFF suggesting the Ravens should target AJ Green this off-season if the Bengals let him go.

[KoryMac5]

When Mike Brown looks at Joe Burrow he sees $$$$$$$...no way he passes on this kid.

After the first 10 mins I thought we had jinxed him with that junk defense Clemson was playing...kid is legit.

[Redsfaithful]

PFF suggesting the Ravens should target AJ Green this off-season if the Bengals let him go.

They would have traded him if they were letting him go, he's getting a new deal or franchised.

[reds77]

I don't know anything about scouting football talent, but as a long time fan of the Bengals I do know that Mike Brown and family are just terrible owners. Their choices for running a franchise make the Bengals one of the worst professional sport organizations. I'm hopeful Burrow is the kind of player that transcends bad ownership in that his talents can lead the Bengals to only winning. I hope the Bengals take him #1. If he fails, then so be it, but since he's a QB he's worth taking.

[KoryMac5]

I don't know anything about scouting football talent, but as a long time fan of the Bengals I do know that Mike Brown and family are just terrible owners. Their choices for running a franchise make the Bengals one of the worst professional sport organizations. I'm hopeful Burrow is the kind of player that transcends bad ownership in that his talents can lead the Bengals to only winning. I hope the Bengals take him #1. If he fails, then so be it, but since he's a QB he's worth taking.

He might be the light bulb moment that the Brown's need...Mike is 85 he isn't getting any younger.

[Sea Ray]

PFF suggesting the Ravens should target AJ Green this off-season if the Bengals let him go.

All the more reason not to let him go. No way they "let him go". Why let him go for free when this year a team has both the transition tag and the franchise tag available to use? The media are idiots for even proposing that the Bengals would let AJ walk away free

[WVRed]

I don't know anything about scouting football talent, but as a long time fan of the Bengals I do know that Mike Brown and family are just terrible owners. Their choices for running a franchise make the Bengals one of the worst professional sport organizations. I'm hopeful Burrow is the kind of player that transcends bad ownership in that his talents can lead the Bengals to only winning. I hope the Bengals take him #1. If he fails, then so be it, but since he's a QB he's worth taking.

Let’s put it this way,

If Mike Brown, Vince Tobin, etc are wrong on Joe Burrow, then we are all wrong.

I don’t know of anyone who posts on this board who is still skeptical of taking Burrow for fear that he won’t pan out. It’s mostly to get extra value out of the pick but even then I’ve never seen a prospect that the fan base has generally rallied behind the Bengals taking.

Local kid, good head on his shoulders, shattered records while winning the Heisman in one of the toughest conferences and schedules in the nation. He checks all the boxes.

[RedsBaron]

I would rank Boomer first, followed by Anderson and then Palmer. For the top two, leading the team to a Super Bowl counts for a lot.

1. Esiason
2. Anderson
3. Palmer
4. Dalton
5. Cook
6. Blake
Kenny Anderson is the only QB in the history of the Bengals who deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He lead the NFL in passer rating 4 times, passing percentage 3 times, yards per attempt twice, went to four Pro Bowls, was a league MVP. Anderson is as deserving of the HOF as Dan Fouts. He is the best QB in Bengals history, a distinction that I hope he soon loses to Joe Burrow.

[OesterPoster]

Like someone mentioned on Twitter, the Bengals should have a billboard with the photo of Burrow smoking the cigar hanging outside PBS, telling fans to buy tickets. I don't even care that he hates Skyline.

[Sea Ray]

Do any of you Bengal fans now regret how this year went? Do any of you wish AJ and others hadn't gotten hurt and played? Anyone wish Finley hadn't given away the Oakland/Pittsburgh games? If we'd scripted this year it couldn't have gone any better. Seriously. Aren't you glad we didn't go 6-10?

[Big Klu]

Kenny Anderson is the only QB in the history of the Bengals who deserves to be in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He lead the NFL in passer rating 4 times, passing percentage 3 times, yards per attempt twice, went to four Pro Bowls, was a league MVP. Anderson is as deserving of the HOF as Dan Fouts. He is the best QB in Bengals history, a distinction that I hope he soon loses to Joe Burrow.

I'm totally OK with flip-flopping Esiason and Anderson. I had Boomer ahead of him mainly because I have more vivid memories of him. But my point was that they should be #1 and #2 on any Bengals All-time QB list.

Boomer also had a pretty good resume -- league MVP, four Pro Bowls, led the NFL in yards per attempt twice and QB rating once, while the overall strength at the QB position league-wide was probably stronger. But on reflection, Anderson is probably most deserving of the #1 spot, with Esiason #2.

Agreed that hopefully Joey Burrow passes them all some day.

[HammerTime]

Joe Burrow is a superstar.

Hard to not be excited about him.

[Sea Ray]

Couple interesting points from FS1 today:

--Colin Cowherd "announced" that Baker Mayfield is now the 4th best QB in the division and that he and the Browns missed out on a great yr to capitalize on a down division...the Bengals were horrible, the Steelers were down to 3rd or 4th QB...

--Joel Klatt said that if Trevor Lawrence was coming out this yr, he thinks the choice for the Bengals should be Joe Burrow. Says that Lawrence has accuracy problems and looked rattled vs a far worse defense than what Joe Burrow faced. He also says that Zach Taylor's system should fit Burrow's skills to a "T". Compared Burrow to Joe Montana and raved about how other GMs in the NFL were texting last night about what a catchable ball Burrow throws.

Good stuff

[WVRed]

Hows this for a Burrow comp?

Ben Roethlisberger.

I think Big Ben would have been the first overall pick had he played at a Power 5 college. Playing at Miami hurt his visibility.

He can shred defenses in the pocket but can also create on the run like Roethlisberger.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Couple interesting points from FS1 today:

--Colin Cowherd "announced" that Baker Mayfield is now the 4th best QB in the division and that he and the Browns missed out on a great yr to capitalize on a down division...the Bengals were horrible, the Steelers were down to 3rd or 4th QB...

--Joel Klatt said that if Trevor Lawrence was coming out this yr, he thinks the choice for the Bengals should be Joe Burrow. Says that Lawrence has accuracy problems and looked rattled vs a far worse defense than what Joe Burrow faced. He also says that Zach Taylor's system should fit Burrow's skills to a "T". Compared Burrow to Joe Montana and raved about how other GMs in the NFL were texting last night about what a catchable ball Burrow throws.

Good stuff

Would have been interesting. Lawrence is three years younger than Burrow and I wonder how much that could have impacted the Bengals.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Hows this for a Burrow comp?

Ben Roethlisberger.

I think Big Ben would have been the first overall pick had he played at a Power 5 college. Playing at Miami hurt his visibility.

He can shred defenses in the pocket but can also create on the run like Roethlisberger.

Not that Burrow is small, but Ben is a lot bigger. A lot of his ability to extend plays comes from shaking off tackles vs. eluding them or running.

[KoryMac5]

Lawrence's skill set plays to the NFL game... good height, will grow into his frame, can run if needed, good arm. I don't think he has Burrows accuracy or ability to read defenses as well but that is nitpicking...there will be plenty of tank teams next season.

[bucksfan2]

Hows this for a Burrow comp?

Ben Roethlisberger.

I think Big Ben would have been the first overall pick had he played at a Power 5 college. Playing at Miami hurt his visibility.

He can shred defenses in the pocket but can also create on the run like Roethlisberger.

I think Lawrence is a good comp for Big Ben. More agile that given credit for, big arm and a big body.

[Sea Ray]

Hows this for a Burrow comp?

Ben Roethlisberger.

I think Big Ben would have been the first overall pick had he played at a Power 5 college. Playing at Miami hurt his visibility.

He can shred defenses in the pocket but can also create on the run like Roethlisberger.

Not a good comp IMO. Ben is not a west coast guy who throws to a spot. He drops back, looks for the open guy and heaves it. Ben is kinda in a group all by himself

[WVRed]

Not that Burrow is small, but Ben is a lot bigger. A lot of his ability to extend plays comes from shaking off tackles vs. eluding them or running.

Joe Burrow: 6’4, 216 lbs
Ben Roethlisberger: 6’5, 241 lbs

That’s probably being generous on Burrow but its Wikipedia.

[redsfanmia]

Joe Burrow: 6’4, 216 lbs
Ben Roethlisberger: 6’5, 241 lbs

That’s probably being generous on Burrow but its Wikipedia.

After seeing Ben on the sidelines this year i think he eats 241lbs every night.

[redsfandan]

Since it's almost a certainty that Burrow will be the pick do the Bengals HAVE to wait to give him a playbook? If so, how long?

[UKFlounder]

I don’t know what they can do if he attends the Senior Bowl, but my guess is they will be limited in what they can do at least until the start of the league year, which I think is usually early March.




Since it's almost a certainty that Burrow will be the pick do the Bengals HAVE to wait to give him a playbook? If so, how long?

[Bob Sheed]

I don’t know what they can do if he attends the Senior Bowl, but my guess is they will be limited in what they can do at least until the start of the league year, which I think is usually early March.

Otherwise, the NFL might punish them. Like they did the Patriots for taping the Bengals sideline.

Yep. If I'm the Bengals, Burrow would already have the playbook to study.

[North]

Some commentary on the Burrow arm strength thing:

CFP Coaches Film Room sheds light on Joe Burrow question mark
Jeff Hafley and Mike Gundy put narrative about Joe Burrow’s lack of arm strength to bed
By Matt Minich@CoachMinich Jan 14, 2020, 12:38pm EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/14/21065144/college-football-playoff-coaches-film-joe-burrow-lsu-tigers-football-news

[GAC]

Couple interesting points from FS1 today:

--Colin Cowherd "announced" that Baker Mayfield is now the 4th best QB in the division and that he and the Browns missed out on a great yr to capitalize on a down division...the Bengals were horrible, the Steelers were down to 3rd or 4th QB...

--Joel Klatt said that if Trevor Lawrence was coming out this yr, he thinks the choice for the Bengals should be Joe Burrow. Says that Lawrence has accuracy problems and looked rattled vs a far worse defense than what Joe Burrow faced. He also says that Zach Taylor's system should fit Burrow's skills to a "T". Compared Burrow to Joe Montana and raved about how other GMs in the NFL were texting last night about what a catchable ball Burrow throws.

Good stuff

Colin Cowherd is a JACKASS! Nuff said LOL

[GAC]

Otherwise, the NFL might punish them. Like they did the Patriots for taping the Bengals sideline.

Yep. If I'm the Bengals, Burrow would already have the playbook to study.

Why would you want to give him something that will be old and outdated? LOL

Once drafted, it's going to be interesting to see how the Bengals (Taylor) handle him his rookie season.

[KoryMac5]

Joe Brady to Carolina as OC...

[Bob Sheed]

Now the question is, what's the over under on when the Steelers will cheap shot Burrow into injury?

History doesn't lie, you all know it's coming. Question is, when?

[Sea Ray]

Some commentary on the Burrow arm strength thing:

CFP Coaches Film Room sheds light on Joe Burrow question mark
Jeff Hafley and Mike Gundy put narrative about Joe Burrow’s lack of arm strength to bed
By Matt Minich@CoachMinich Jan 14, 2020, 12:38pm EST

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/1/14/21065144/college-football-playoff-coaches-film-joe-burrow-lsu-tigers-football-news

That article doesn't really put arm strength to bed. All it's saying is that Burrow is coached to throw back shoulder. That doesn't mean that he has arm strength

[Sea Ray]

Colin Cowherd is a JACKASS! Nuff said LOL

That's your opinion but isn't it more productive to attack what he says than attack him personally?

[WrongVerb]

Why would you want to give him something that will be old and outdated? LOL

Once drafted, it's going to be interesting to see how the Bengals (Taylor) handle him his rookie season.

I hope he sits. But I wouldn't want Andy Dalton to be QB in that scenario. Bengals should sign someone competent (Fitzpatrick?) for one or two seasons and trade Dalton. Let Burrow get used to the NFL speed and size the same way that Palmer sat behind Kitna for a year.

[bucksfan2]

I hope he sits. But I wouldn't want Andy Dalton to be QB in that scenario. Bengals should sign someone competent (Fitzpatrick?) for one or two seasons and trade Dalton. Let Burrow get used to the NFL speed and size the same way that Palmer sat behind Kitna for a year.

Burrow is a 5th year senior. No sense in sitting him now. He should be as refined a prospect that comes out of the college game.

[Hillsdale87]

I hope he sits. But I wouldn't want Andy Dalton to be QB in that scenario. Bengals should sign someone competent (Fitzpatrick?) for one or two seasons and trade Dalton. Let Burrow get used to the NFL speed and size the same way that Palmer sat behind Kitna for a year.

Draft experts have said he's the most pro-ready prospect since Luck. He should play right away


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WrongVerb]

Burrow is a 5th year senior. No sense in sitting him now. He should be as refined a prospect that comes out of the college game.

Yeah, no. The differences between the college game and the pro game are enough that slow track development for a franchise QB should be near universal. Let me throw out some names of quarterbacks who sat for at least a season after coming out of college (with their RND-OVR draft position):

Garoppolo (2-62)
Mahomes (1-10)
Rodgers (1-24)

There's something those quarterbacks have in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Others who fit that criteria:
Jackson (1-32)
Watson (1-12)
Cousins (4-102)
Brady (6-199)
Brees (2-32)


And a few who don't:
Wilson (3-75)
Tannehill (1-8)
Wentz (1-2)
Allen (1-7)

Now, for some recent 1-1 Quarterbacks who didn't sit for the first year and their career QB record:
Murray (5-10-1)
Mayfield (12-17)
Goff (33-21) (Goff started 7 games his rookie year)
Winston (28-42)
Luck (53-33)
Newton (68-55-1)
Bradford (34-48-1)
Stafford (69-79-1) (Stafford started 10 games his rookie year)
Russell (he was so bad I won't bother)
Smith (94-66-1) (Smith started 7 games his rookie year)
E.Manning (117-117) (Manning started 7 games his rookie year)

[RiverRat13]

The Athletic had a good article last month revisiting the Palmer pick. Palmer sat his first year because he took so long to develop at USC and because he struggled to pick up new offenses (Norm Chow really simplified his offense for Palmer's benefit when he came to USC for Palmer's senior season). Burrow's processing is one of his major strengths and is coming from a pro-style offense. Each case is different. I don't see reason for Burrow to sit at all.

[RiverRat13]

Yeah, no. The differences between the college game and the pro game are enough that slow track development for a franchise QB should be near universal. Let me throw out some names of quarterbacks who sat for at least a season after coming out of college (with their RND-OVR draft position):

Garoppolo (2-62)
Mahomes (1-10)
Rodgers (1-24)


Holy apples and oranges. Were the Patriots going to sit Brady? Were the Packers going to sit Favre? And Alex Smith was a Pro Bowler the year before Mahomes was drafted.

[phatknuckle]

Burrow is a 5th year senior. No sense in sitting him now. He should be as refined a prospect that comes out of the college game.

I agree. I don't think Joe Burrow will have any trouble transitioning to the professional game. It wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in veteran to mentor however. Fitzmagic, if he would take the job, would be perfect.

[bucksfan2]

Yeah, no. The differences between the college game and the pro game are enough that slow track development for a franchise QB should be near universal. Let me throw out some names of quarterbacks who sat for at least a season after coming out of college (with their RND-OVR draft position):

Garoppolo (2-62)
Mahomes (1-10)
Rodgers (1-24)

There's something those quarterbacks have in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Others who fit that criteria:
Jackson (1-32)
Watson (1-12)
Cousins (4-102)
Brady (6-199)
Brees (2-32)


And a few who don't:
Wilson (3-75)
Tannehill (1-8)
Wentz (1-2)
Allen (1-7)

Now, for some recent 1-1 Quarterbacks who didn't sit for the first year and their career QB record:
Murray (5-10-1)
Mayfield (12-17)
Goff (33-21) (Goff started 7 games his rookie year)
Winston (28-42)
Luck (53-33)
Newton (68-55-1)
Bradford (34-48-1)
Stafford (69-79-1) (Stafford started 10 games his rookie year)
Russell (he was so bad I won't bother)
Smith (94-66-1) (Smith started 7 games his rookie year)
E.Manning (117-117) (Manning started 7 games his rookie year)

The only reason I don't start Burrow game 1 is if the OLine can't protect him.

I think a lot of cases you mentioned above need to be looked at based upon their circumstances. I think Burrow is somewhat unique in that he is a 5th year senior, and having played in a NFL style offense this past season. He isn't a guy who is coming form a completely foreign offense, he isn't a guy who is three years removed from HS or a guy who has played only a few games of football. He also isn't a guy coming from a small school or an lower level school.

I think guys like Luck, Wilson, Manning, Mayfield, and Stafford are good comps but the game has changed pretty significantly since Manning and Stafford broke in. Honestly, I think Dalton is a pretty good comp, able to come in right away and start. You will see the playbook grow as he grows. What good would bringing in Fitzpatrick to start for 5 games? Burrow needs all the reps he can get. I don't get the notion that Burrow needs time to learn, if that is the case, he is never going to make it. He is a NFL ready QB right now and if he can't grasp the system, well you don't draft him. If he were Haskins, a guy who everyone said was a little raw and needed time, then you absolutely bring in a place holder QB.

[Redsfaithful]

Luck (53-33)
Newton (68-55-1)

Burrow is Luck / Newton level so the other guys just don't really matter. The fact that Baker Mayfield is bad has no bearing here.

[RiverRat13]

Fitzpatrick has one more year on his Miami contract. It makes perfect sense for the Dolphins to take Tua at 5 and start Fitzpatrick next year.

[bucksfan2]

Fitzpatrick has one more year on his Miami contract. It makes perfect sense for the Dolphins to take Tua at 5 and start Fitzpatrick next year.

I was throwing Fitzy out there as a type of QB. I don't have a problem with bringing in a vet QB who can come in and help Burrow. But it makes no sense to me to bring in a guy to play in 2020 and sit Burrow.

[RiverRat13]

Also, Lamar Jackson started seven regular season (and one playoff) games as a rookie. Not sure why he's listed under the "success" column for those who sat while Goff, Eli, and Alex Smith are failures under the column of those who played their rookie year.

[North]

I was throwing Fitzy out there as a type of QB. I don't have a problem with bringing in a vet QB who can come in and help Burrow. But it makes no sense to me to bring in a guy to play in 2020 and sit Burrow.

Yep. And I can't see the Bengals ownership forking over a couple of millions for a vet babysitter qb. :dunno:

[bucksfan2]

Yep. And I can't see the Bengals ownership forking over a couple of millions for a vet babysitter qb. :dunno:

Eh, the Bengals generally spend right up to the cap. They aren't going to keep Dalton, and if they have a minimal financial investment in Burrow, they probably will bring in a QB.

What "should" happen is they run with Burrow, Finley, and their current 3rd stringer. Use the cost savings from QB, cut Kirkpatrick, and invest in LB's and OL. The Bengals rarely do what "should" be done, but I have a hard time believing they will draft a QB #1 overall and not protect him.

[Sea Ray]

Burrow is Luck / Newton level so the other guys just don't really matter. The fact that Baker Mayfield is bad has no bearing here.

Baker Mayfield was worse in yr 2 than yr 1.

I think we're going to have to trust the coaches on this. I think Burrow should be able to start most of the games this yr but we'll see. Peyton started year 1 and it wasn't pretty, 3-13. But yr two that flipped. He was 13-3. I would argue that he wouldn't have gone 13-3 if he didn't play in yr 1 but that can't be proven.

[Sea Ray]

Eh, the Bengals generally spend right up to the cap. They aren't going to keep Dalton, and if they have a minimal financial investment in Burrow, they probably will bring in a QB.

What "should" happen is they run with Burrow, Finley, and their current 3rd stringer. Use the cost savings from QB, cut Kirkpatrick, and invest in LB's and OL. The Bengals rarely do what "should" be done, but I have a hard time believing they will draft a QB #1 overall and not protect him.

I don't see Glenn coming back either. More savings

[North]

Eh, the Bengals generally spend right up to the cap. They aren't going to keep Dalton, and if they have a minimal financial investment in Burrow, they probably will bring in a QB.

What "should" happen is they run with Burrow, Finley, and their current 3rd stringer. Use the cost savings from QB, cut Kirkpatrick, and invest in LB's and OL. The Bengals rarely do what "should" be done, but I have a hard time believing they will draft a QB #1 overall and not protect him.

They do not spend up to the cap. They generally keep a healthy reserve...they rolled over 7.4 million from 2018 into 2019. in 2018 they rolled 11.6, in 2017, they rolled 6.6 million and so on. This the Brown family we are talking about. Eh.

[Hillsdale87]

Yeah, no. The differences between the college game and the pro game are enough that slow track development for a franchise QB should be near universal. Let me throw out some names of quarterbacks who sat for at least a season after coming out of college (with their RND-OVR draft position):

Garoppolo (2-62)
Mahomes (1-10)
Rodgers (1-24)

There's something those quarterbacks have in common, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Others who fit that criteria:
Jackson (1-32)
Watson (1-12)
Cousins (4-102)
Brady (6-199)
Brees (2-32)


And a few who don't:
Wilson (3-75)
Tannehill (1-8)
Wentz (1-2)
Allen (1-7)

Now, for some recent 1-1 Quarterbacks who didn't sit for the first year and their career QB record:
Murray (5-10-1)
Mayfield (12-17)
Goff (33-21) (Goff started 7 games his rookie year)
Winston (28-42)
Luck (53-33)
Newton (68-55-1)
Bradford (34-48-1)
Stafford (69-79-1) (Stafford started 10 games his rookie year)
Russell (he was so bad I won't bother)
Smith (94-66-1) (Smith started 7 games his rookie year)
E.Manning (117-117) (Manning started 7 games his rookie year)

Judging the record of QBs that go #1 is a bit misleading. They're going to the worst teams in the league, so it's likely that their records are going to be pretty bad for a while. Of the #1 picks that failed/are failing, I don't think it had anything to do with them starting immediately. Winston is just careless with the ball and was in college. Bradford could never stay healthy. Russell was going to fall apart regardless. I don't know what's going on with Baker, but he was actually a lot better starting his first year than he was his second.

Also, Jackson and Watson did not sit their rookie years. Watson entered in the second half of week 1 and started the rest of the year until he tore his ACL. Jackson came in halfway through the season. Garoppolo, Cousins, and Brady were first round picks, so their skill set and expectations were much different from Burrow's, so week 1 expectations should not even be compared.

[KoryMac5]

They do not spend up to the cap. They generally keep a healthy reserve...they rolled over 7.4 million from 2018 into 2019. in 2018 they rolled 11.6, in 2017, they rolled 6.6 million and so on. This the Brown family we are talking about. Eh.

I believe from the articles I read that this season they would not be able to roll that much money over due to new salary cap regulations.

[Sea Ray]

I believe from the articles I read that this season they would not be able to roll that much money over due to new salary cap regulations.

The thing is there's a floor. This year they'll likely have to spend money in order to stay above the floor

[Kingspoint]

The thing is there's a floor. This year they'll likely have to spend money in order to stay above the floor

Doesn't mean they will spend it wisely. The Bobby Hart's need to stop.

[Bob Sheed]

Dalton is a good guy. I'm sure he has some insights on the Zac Attack, that could be helpful to Burrow. ...Not sure it's 15 million dollars worth of insights though.

Plus, if Burrow gets hurt or struggles, then you want a QB that will come in and lose badly. That's not Dalton either. A healthy Bengalized Dalton gets you anywhere from 5-11 to maybe 8-8. That's no good. Plus, as mentioned, Dalton is Bengalized. He needs a fresh start.

Is Kitna still available? :lol:

- - - Updated - - -


Doesn't mean they will spend it wisely. The Bobby Hart's need to stop.

1. Control
2. LOYALTY
...
...
Distant 3rd: Winning

[KoryMac5]

The thing is there's a floor. This year they'll likely have to spend money in order to stay above the floor

Not just the floor but the cap getting increased...the Bengals over the last 3 yrs have been 17 out of 32 teams when it comes to cap spending...getting Burrow may change that.

[North]

Not just the floor but the cap getting increased...the Bengals over the last 3 yrs have been 17 out of 32 teams when it comes to cap spending...getting Burrow may change that.

I wouldn't be surprised if UFAs Dennard and Eifert go elsewhere. Maybe Billings too. To me, it's an open question about Green...lots of missed games the past few years.

Sportrac projects his value at 18.2M for 2 years:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/aj-green-7719/market-value/

For my 2 cents, I'd like to see their draft address the atrocious linebacking situation, the seemingly-forever OL hunt, and a good possession receiver prospect - I think they need a decent midfield guy. Anything on the DL and d backfield has to wait IMO. But it's the Bengals, and we all know how "getting a steal" is so important to them - even though most of 'em seem to turn out to be duds.

Bag 'O Glass Ross - I cut him. Can't run routes, can't get separation unless it's a footrace, won't contest for the ball, and has hands of stone.

But regardless of what they do with personnel, they darn sure have to do something about the lousy play calling. I don't buy any of this "he has to learn" stuff.

[GAC]

That's your opinion but isn't it more productive to attack what he says than attack him personally?

No. Because the list would be quite long, and I don't want to get into it on the Bengal's thread (LOL)

[Kingspoint]

I wouldn't be surprised if UFAs Dennard and Eifert go elsewhere. Maybe Billings too. To me, it's an open question about Green...lots of missed games the past few years.

Sportrac projects his value at 18.2M for 2 years:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/aj-green-7719/market-value/

For my 2 cents, I'd like to see their draft address the atrocious linebacking situation, the seemingly-forever OL hunt, and a good possession receiver prospect - I think they need a decent midfield guy. Anything on the DL and d backfield has to wait IMO. But it's the Bengals, and we all know how "getting a steal" is so important to them - even though most of 'em seem to turn out to be duds.

Bag 'O Glass Ross - I cut him. Can't run routes, can't get separation unless it's a footrace, won't contest for the ball, and has hands of stone.

But regardless of what they do with personnel, they darn sure have to do something about the lousy play calling. I don't buy any of this "he has to learn" stuff.

Last offseason was the worst for the Bengals they have ever had. The bar is set pretty low. Would really like to see evidence there is someone with football knowledge running things this offseason.

[GAC]

I hope he sits. But I wouldn't want Andy Dalton to be QB in that scenario. Bengals should sign someone competent (Fitzpatrick?) for one or two seasons and trade Dalton. Let Burrow get used to the NFL speed and size the same way that Palmer sat behind Kitna for a year.

We're dinosaurs buddy. Old school . But I agree with you (LOL). Everyone clams that in today's game it's easier for a college player (QB) to transition to the next level (NFL) because that "gap" in scheme/systems between the two has closed. That may be true. I don't know. I see some QBs that do, some that don't. I see a lot of erratic play and struggling. But I'd like to see some hard numbers, if they exist, on that success rate over the last decade. What I've seen so far presents a mixed bag IMO...

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/nfl-rookie-quarterbacks-start-sit-darnold-rosen-mayfield-2018/1p20qhe6o5wwyzv8cgje8siyk/16


Results
Sat and succeeded:7
Palmer, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Smith, Cutler, Goff

Sat and failed:11
Grossman, Losman, Campbell, Russell, Quinn, Freeman, Tebow,Locker, Ponder, Manziel, Lynch

Started and succeeded: 16
Roethlisberger, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Dalton, Luck, Griffin, Wilson, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Winston, Mariota, Wentz, Prescott, Trubisky

Started and failed: 12
Leftwich, Boller, Young, Leinart, Stafford, Sanchez, Bradford, Gabbert, Tannehill, Weeden, Manuel, Smith

So, what did we learn? Grooming a young franchise quarterback is an art, not a science.

Everything has to be instantaneous anymore. There is very little patience when coaches, players, offenses are expected to produce quick turnarounds. And rushing the young QB is about the only option. It really depends on the circumstances with me.

I really wouldn't want to see my rookie QB lining up next season behind a team, especially an O-line, that resembled the '19 one. The Bengals can have a solid receiving corp if they can stay healthy. But they need to fix their O-line, and it needs to be their top priority if they decide to throw Burrows to the fire.

[membengal]

The most value under this current CBA is the system that slots rookie salaries for the first four years. It allows the team with a rookie first round qb to spend money elsewhere. Anyone advocating burrow sit is advocating the team burn 25% of the most valuable situation under this CBA. With respect to as plug and play a qb that has come from college in about a decade.

That’s nonsense.

[bucksfan2]

I wouldn't be surprised if UFAs Dennard and Eifert go elsewhere. Maybe Billings too. To me, it's an open question about Green...lots of missed games the past few years.

Sportrac projects his value at 18.2M for 2 years:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/aj-green-7719/market-value/

For my 2 cents, I'd like to see their draft address the atrocious linebacking situation, the seemingly-forever OL hunt, and a good possession receiver prospect - I think they need a decent midfield guy. Anything on the DL and d backfield has to wait IMO. But it's the Bengals, and we all know how "getting a steal" is so important to them - even though most of 'em seem to turn out to be duds.

Bag 'O Glass Ross - I cut him. Can't run routes, can't get separation unless it's a footrace, won't contest for the ball, and has hands of stone.

But regardless of what they do with personnel, they darn sure have to do something about the lousy play calling. I don't buy any of this "he has to learn" stuff.

AJ will be back under the franchise tag, I think that is pretty much expected. And at this point, if you are running Burrow out there, AJ is a huge advantage for him.

I think Dennard goes, but nothing surprises me. He didn't want to come back to Cincy but the market for his services wasn't there.

Eifort is weird, because I think he "wants" to succeed in Cincy, I just don't know if he can. That said, a healthy Eifort would really help Burrow.

I have heard Glenn is as good as gone, but....... the Bengals are better with him at T than without him. They need to improve the line, if Glenn leaves, that will require more money to do so.

As mentioned above, the rookie contract is the biggest benefit for a team. Year one with Burrow is a building season, years 2-4 are when you really hope to make some hay. Because if he is good (or even average), he won't be cheap after year 4.

[membengal]

The quotes in the Hobson piece this morning are good if you have been worrying about the Bengals over-thinking this and passing him at #1 overall or trading down. Callahan and Van Pelt have eyes, and are on board:

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-burrowing-into-draft-senior-bowl-prep


"He's got natural pocket feel. He feels it," Callahan said. "It seems like he never takes his eyes off down the field. He extends the play really, really well. He's a lot faster than you might assume when you see him running away from all those SEC guys. He's got incredible up-field accuracy. The ball hardly ever hits the ground in a game, which is rare. He just naturally puts the ball in places where those guys can make plays."

Van Pelt: "Creates on the move. Obviously takes care of the ball. Makes good decisions. You can see that with his touchdown-to-interception ratio (60-6). I got to see him (in real time on TV) in the last two games of the year and then when you watch the tape, you're seeing the same things."

They're smiling because it all sounds like understatement and maybe because they've got first crack at Burrow.

[Redsfaithful]

Because if he is good (or even average), he won't be cheap after year 4.

Year 5, no? I thought teams had an option on a fifth year for rookies they can exercise unless that's changed recently?

[KoryMac5]

Random tidbit from twitter this AM...Burrows girlfriend is from Cincinnati and has several pics with Reds gear. Hopefully they don't break up.

[membengal]

Year 5, no? I thought teams had an option on a fifth year for rookies they can exercise unless that's changed recently?

I don't get worries over any rookie's second contract (not aimed at you). If you get a rookie who is good, you have four full years of value under the current CBA with an option for year 5. If they are good, usually they don't see fifth year option and get a new contract instead. Nevertheless, assuming Burrow gets here and is what I think he is, he should be starting day 1 for this team (I mean, good lord, Dalton started day 1 - not sure why anyone seriously thinks Burrow needs to sit)...

[North]

I don't get worries over any rookie's second contract (not aimed at you). If you get a rookie who is good, you have four full years of value under the current CBA with an option for year 5. If they are good, usually they don't see fifth year option and get a new contract instead. Nevertheless, assuming Burrow gets here and is what I think he is, he should be starting day 1 for this team (I mean, good lord, Dalton started day 1 - not sure why anyone seriously thinks Burrow needs to sit)...

No doubt that Burrow will start. The NFL is a TV entertainment business, and 1st round quarterbacks are their best shiny new toys.