2020 Cincinnati Bengals - non-owner complaining thread zone

[membengal]

All: I have been given permission from Boss to start this thread as an alternative to the constant attempts by a few posters to turn every discussion to their hatred of the owner of the Cincinnati Bengals. At the outset, I stipulate that I, and any other conscious Bengals fan, also do not like the owner of the Cincinnati Bengals. He seems like a good person, but man, he is not a good owner of an NFL team. No one NO ONE disputes that.

That said, I am starting this thread as a place to have continuing discussions about the team going forward - the draft, the potential fanchise QB, free agency, coaching, what have you - where each post does not have to be attacked with historic stuff that we all stipulate to with regard to Mike Brown.

Simply put, if people are still fans of this team (and some of us are - even after 50 years in my case) - it means we have made peace with rooting for a team with a crappy owner. And are still fans. It is unnecessary for those who have given up being fans (which I totally get) to come into this thread and work overtime to convince us to join them in quitting. Basically, if we haven't quit being fans now, we are likely in it for better or likely worse, because that's how fandom sometimes works.

So, this is a place to discuss the team and its moves without having to constantly defend still being a fan. If you feel the need to discuss everything through the Mike Brown lens - the other thread is for you.

Thanks.

--Aaron

[membengal]

We'll start here - for all the attempts to stir up a Burrow-will-demand-to-play-elsewhere story, the family continues to not have it:


Jeremy Rauch
@FOX19Jeremy
·
16h
A text from Joe Burrow's dad on the continuing thought that Joe might not want to go No. 1 (to a certain team):

"Not sure where that information is coming from. We are excited Joe has put himself in a position to be considered a possible high draft choice."
@fox19

Which makes sense - the system is set up so the team with the worst record gets to pick first. I am not sure why this is all of a sudden news to Dan Patrick and others. If AJ Green has been healthy last year and they went 6-10 and were picking 10th, this isn't coming up. Somehow because they "lucked" into 2-14 they don't deserve to pick the best player in their opinion? Bull hockey.

[membengal]

And, let's be clear about what will happen if PFT and Dan Patrick get their way. The Bengals won't be bullied into trading out of a pick and a player they want. In that scenario, they pick Burrow, he sits out an entire year foregoing millions of dollars, to go back in the draft next year, now almost 26 at that point, with Lawrence and Fields and others moving into the top 5 and likely dropping him back - costing him more money. And that's assuming the CBA gets worked out, and there isn't a work stoppage costing him even more money. This is all silly.

[membengal]

Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
·
19h
QB player comps

(*suggest to change; based on style/traits not a career prediction)

Burrow - Andrew Luck
Tua - Drew Brees
Herbert - Carson Wentz
Love - Colin Kaepernick
Eason - James Winston

- - - Updated - - -


Curtis Patrick
@CPatrickNFL
·
Feb 4
Only 2 WRs in the 2020 class can claim the filthy trio of:

✅ Age 19 breakout w/30% Dominator
✅ Early declare
✅ Finish NFL rookie season at age 21

Jalen Reagor
and
Justin Jefferson

[membengal]

Jeaux Goods
@JoeGoodberry
·
23h
If the Bengals release Gio Bernard, they'll save $2.8M in cap space.

Should they release him? Maybe, but that's not a whole lot of money. They should probably just find a way to use him.

[reds77]

I'm interested in what happens with the first pick of the second round. I'm locked in on hoping it is solidified that Burrow is taken #1.

Random thoughts:

- Protect Burrow at all costs: Draft OL, blocking TE, or even a FB or hybrid TE/FB
-WR: Is Green/Boyd/Ross a strength or an uh oh weakness?
-Defense: Team needs LB, maybe look for shut down secondary defensive players

I suppose they should just take the best player available in round 2, but I hope they are thinking about how to best help Burrow rather than try and force him into their own schemes.

[membengal]

I very badly want them to trade back in the 2nd to pick up an additional pick (or picks) in the 3rd through 5th rounds. At least, that's my current hope. This is a deep draft in the middle - a LOT of players that can help - would lke more bites at the apple.

[membengal]

Dane Brugler's Burrow prospect summary in the Athletic:


1. Joe Burrow, LSU (6-3, 212, 4.88)
The Plains, Ohio (Athens), redshirt senior. Age: 23.37

A two-year starter at LSU, Burrow steadily improved throughout his first season in Baton Rouge in 2018, but he thrived in passing game coordinator Joe Brady’s scheme in 2019 — a spread, RPO offense that features the team’s weapons and makes the quarterback the point guard. He set the FBS records for passing touchdowns (60) and total touchdowns (65) in a single season, finishing with the second-best completion percentage (76.3, just behind Colt McCoy’s 76.7).

A “competitive maniac,” according to Urban Meyer, Burrow plays with the fiery intensity of Philip Rivers, and much of his success comes from channeling his competitive juices in a focused, motivational manner. He shows the ability to quickly identify the void or vulnerable matchup, and he doesn’t miss once he finds it. He doesn’t have top-shelf arm strength, which could be an issue in certain weather conditions, but he plays with terrific timing and ball placement to make up for his lack of RPMs. Overall, Burrow is the ultimate competitor and orchestrates the offense with poise, processing skills and accuracy, projecting as an immediate NFL starter with Pro Bowl skills worthy of the No. 1 overall pick.

...

All-22 Takeaway: This throw against Texas early in the season sold me that this was a very different version of Burrow from his 2018 tape. It is third-and-17 with 2:38 remaining in the fourth quarter and LSU up by six — and if the Longhorns get the stop, their offense would get the ball back with two minutes to try to orchestrate a winning drive. Not only does Burrow convert, but he also delivers the touchdown, extending the lead and locking up the victory. His composure to climb in the face of pressure with his eyes elevated and fire an accurate strike on the crossing route is a big-time play.

[membengal]

For anyone still advocating about trading back for a haul and hoping to get Herbert - here is Brugler on Herbert (just confirms for me my desire to stay put no matter what and roll the dice with Burrow):


3. Justin Herbert, Oregon (6-6, 227, 4.68)
Eugene, Ore. (Sheldon), senior. Age: 22.12

A four-year starter at Oregon, Herbert was groomed in offensive coordinator Marcus Arroyo’s spread, shotgun scheme, finishing with a 29-13 career record and second behind Marcus Mariota in most school passing categories. Most 6-foot-6, 230-pound quarterbacks have awkwardness to their athleticism, but not Herbert, who frequently escapes trouble with the foot quickness of a much smaller player, making the threat of his athleticism a lethal part of his game.

Each of his game tapes contained NFL-level throws with examples of “wow” plays. However, he has the tendency to leave you wanting more with his inconsistent reads and decisions. While he is highly intelligent, that doesn’t always translate to on-field processing speed for him — at quarterback, being book smart is great, but you need quick-minded players, and he isn’t always that (you would rather have a “Jeopardy” champion at quarterback than a 4.0 student). Overall, Herbert is a dynamic dual-threat passer with an elite combination of size, athleticism and arm talent, but he must sharpen his decision-making and instincts, especially under duress, to live up to his immense potential as an NFL starter.

[Danny Serafini]

I just want to say thank you for starting this thread. The constant trolling made the other one unreadable.

[membengal]

I just want to say thank you for starting this thread. The constant trolling made the other one unreadable.

Thanks to Boss for the go ahead. I just want to discuss the upcoming season, fully acknowledging the difficulty that comes with being a Bengals fan.

Here's something else on Burrow ( I can't get enough of these stats):


Mike Renner
@PFF_Mike
·
50m
Joe Burrow faced 4 teams that finished with top-10 ranked defense for
@PFF
. His stats vs. them

72.6% comp
381.5 yards per game
9.1 YPA
13 TDs
1 INT

[RiverRat13]

My biggest fear is that they think they are set at offensive line.

[bucksfan2]

My biggest fear is that they think they are set at offensive line.

I have heard Glenn is as good as gone, but I also believe the Bengals will be better with him than without him. If Jonah Williams is legit at T, they may not be that far off from having an acceptable line.

The first pick in the second round gives them a ton of leverage. I think trading it make sense only if they get tremendous value. There are too many first round talent players who slip out of the 1st due to a run at certain positions. Heck there will probably be guys who are in their top 20 who fall out of the first round waiting to be picked at 33. If there is a guy you like, you have to take him there, if you can trade down a few picks and still get the guy you want, then that makes sense. I do think they need to look, WR, OL, LB and even CB with their 2-5 picks.

[membengal]

I hope Glenn is as good as gone - he was mostly useless when he did deign to play last year. One free agent and a high drag pick and a qb who can maximize competence and this will potentially look very different.

I do desperately hope there will be a new RT but still worry that Turner has beer goggles for Hart.

[reds77]

I have heard Glenn is as good as gone, but I also believe the Bengals will be better with him than without him. If Jonah Williams is legit at T, they may not be that far off from having an acceptable line.

The first pick in the second round gives them a ton of leverage. I think trading it make sense only if they get tremendous value. There are too many first round talent players who slip out of the 1st due to a run at certain positions. Heck there will probably be guys who are in their top 20 who fall out of the first round waiting to be picked at 33. If there is a guy you like, you have to take him there, if you can trade down a few picks and still get the guy you want, then that makes sense. I do think they need to look, WR, OL, LB and even CB with their 2-5 picks.

Jonah is certainly going to be crucial to the Bengals and hopefully Burrow's success. We need him to be one hell of a OL.

[Hillsdale87]

The first pick in the second round gives them a ton of leverage. I think trading it make sense only if they get tremendous value. There are too many first round talent players who slip out of the 1st due to a run at certain positions. Heck there will probably be guys who are in their top 20 who fall out of the first round waiting to be picked at 33. If there is a guy you like, you have to take him there, if you can trade down a few picks and still get the guy you want, then that makes sense. I do think they need to look, WR, OL, LB and even CB with their 2-5 picks.

If there is a good LB or OL that falls to Round 2, I agree that they need to pick them up. Kenneth Murray or Patrick Queen are being mocked late 1st round, and if one of those guys slipped out, that would be awesome for the Bengals. If they decide they want a WR, I think they should definitely trade down. There are so many good WRs this year, and they could get one later in the 2nd round if they wanted to.

[Redsfaithful]

I would like them to chase upside in round two, within reason.

I'd rather have a star WR there than an average starting LB, even though they need so much help at LB.

That said, they just need starting bodies. Have to hope they get at least 4 legitimate NFL starting players here and hopefully two of those would be Pro Bowl talents. That would be a monster draft, but they need a monster draft.

[KoryMac5]

Feb 25th is the deadline for tagging...if they don't tag Green we know what is going to happen with the 2nd round pick...WR. Personally that would be the pick I would move if I can get good value like an additional 3rd etc...

[RiverRat13]

I'd love to see them throw money at local boy (Kettering Alter) Joe Thuney to upgrade the guard position. I'd feel better rolling the dice with Fred Johnson or Bobby Hart at RT if they had a major upgrade beside them.

[membengal]

I am absolutely on board with Thuney as a splash free agent signing. The locked on bengals guys are all over that as well.

[bucksfan2]

Feb 25th is the deadline for tagging...if they don't tag Green we know what is going to happen with the 2nd round pick...WR. Personally that would be the pick I would move if I can get good value like an additional 3rd etc...

Here is the thing, they have to tag AJ at this point. They held on to him the entire season, he has limited trade value because of his injuries, and in general the Bengals like to get something from their investment. The WR I have seen is Shenault from Colorado which I think could be good value there.

At this point, there is too much value with that #33 pick to trade out of it. They could potentially get a starting T there, could get a starting LB, or could get a WR who slips.

[WVRed]

Feb 25th is the deadline for tagging...if they don't tag Green we know what is going to happen with the 2nd round pick...WR. Personally that would be the pick I would move if I can get good value like an additional 3rd etc...

It’s a pretty deep draft at receiver this year. If Laviska Shenault falls to the second round I could see the Bengals making a play for him.

That said, my second round wish list in no particular order:

Shenault
Kenneth Murray
Grant Delpit

[Hillsdale87]

It’s a pretty deep draft at receiver this year. If Laviska Shenault falls to the second round I could see the Bengals making a play for him.

That said, my second round wish list in no particular order:

Shenault
Kenneth Murray
Grant Delpit

Justin Jefferson could be an interesting WR too of he's still there to pair with Burrow. He seems to be between 20 and 40 in the mocks right now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spanky]

Justin Jefferson could be an interesting WR too of he's still there to pair with Burrow. He seems to be between 20 and 40 in the mocks right now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He reminds me of Tyler Boyd, do the Bengals need 2 receivers that fill the same role?

[membengal]

Only question I have with Jefferson is whether he is better in the slot than outside - Goodberry and Liscow on Locked On have wondered about that. Ideally, with Boyd in hand in the slot, a WR in rounds 2-4, say, would be an outside guy.

[RiverRat13]

He reminds me of Tyler Boyd, do the Bengals need 2 receivers that fill the same role?

I'm with you there. They need someone more explosive.

[WVRed]

He reminds me of Tyler Boyd, do the Bengals need 2 receivers that fill the same role?

That’s why I suggested Shenault. He’s been compared to Deebo Samuel which is something the Bengals lack.

[bucksfan2]

I'm with you there. They need someone more explosive.

You mean like John Ross.

WR is interesting in that you need different types. You need a possession WR, you need a guy who can stretch the field, you need a guy who can beat his man off the line. I think the Bengals are set with Boyd and I think Tate proved last season that he deserves playing time as a possession WR. Ross is a guy who will probably play out his 4th season without his 5th year picked up, or at least shouldn't have it picked up. It makes zero sense for the Bengals to let AJ Green just walk, either a sign and trade or a franchise tender should happen.

They need to surround Burrow with as much talent as possible, and I think that may ultimately be why Green is back. Adding WR depth is a must, especially if one slips, but they shouldn't go out of their way to draft one.

[Spanky]

You mean like John Ross.

WR is interesting in that you need different types. You need a possession WR, you need a guy who can stretch the field, you need a guy who can beat his man off the line. I think the Bengals are set with Boyd and I think Tate proved last season that he deserves playing time as a possession WR. Ross is a guy who will probably play out his 4th season without his 5th year picked up, or at least shouldn't have it picked up. It makes zero sense for the Bengals to let AJ Green just walk, either a sign and trade or a franchise tender should happen.

They need to surround Burrow with as much talent as possible, and I think that may ultimately be why Green is back. Adding WR depth is a must, especially if one slips, but they shouldn't go out of their way to draft one.

John Ross' issues are how injury prone he is, which is too bad because if you haven't played a full season by year 3 then it's highly likely you never will. Eifert just played his first full season this past year and the sense is that the Bengals are going to let him walk. A guy we could look for in the Draft to replace Ross' skill set is Devin Duvernay. I believe he is a projected 4th/5th round guy, I would be cool with taking a chance on him.

[Bob Sheed]

They have to:
tag Green
hope that Williams looks like a healthy 1st round pick
release Glenn
release Dalton
sign the 2020 version of Jon Kitna
trade draft picks or sign free agents for linebacker help, right now

If Burrow is the real deal, that would get them to the playoffs right there.

But what WILL they do?
Probably:
tag Green
hope that Williams looks like a healthy 1st round pick
release Glenn
release Dalton
sign a QB, who know who
sign those draft picks, and call it a day

How far that gets them, remains to be seen.

Zac Taylor is the other wild card. He could be Jimmy Johnson, he could be Dave Shula. Probably somewhere in between. By the end of this season, we'll have a pretty good idea where Taylor falls in the spectrum. He comes off to me as firmly in the outmatched Dave Shula camp. But he's about to get a shiny new toy, so here's to hoping he proves me wrong.

[Ohayou]

I hope Glenn is as good as gone - he was mostly useless when he did deign to play last year. One free agent and a high drag pick and a qb who can maximize competence and this will potentially look very different.

I do desperately hope there will be a new RT but still worry that Turner has beer goggles for Hart.

He graded considerably higher than all of our other OL guys last year - definitely wasn't useless. The problem is the internal stuff between him and the staff/front office. I'd prefer to keep him, if possible, but he's probably on his way out.

[Spanky]

He graded considerably higher than all of our other OL guys last year - definitely wasn't useless. The problem is the internal stuff between him and the staff/front office. I'd prefer to keep him, if possible, but he's probably on his way out.

I fully expect Glenn to be cut, and that they'll try to trade Dalton.

[KoryMac5]

Yeah most of the beat writers have said Glenn is as good as gone...too many bridges were burned this season.

[KoryMac5]

Here is the thing, they have to tag AJ at this point. They held on to him the entire season, he has limited trade value because of his injuries, and in general the Bengals like to get something from their investment. The WR I have seen is Shenault from Colorado which I think could be good value there.

At this point, there is too much value with that #33 pick to trade out of it. They could potentially get a starting T there, could get a starting LB, or could get a WR who slips.

If there is a run on QB's like I think there will be I could see a player of value falling to the Bengals at 33...I would imagine the Bengals phone will be ringing off the hook on day 2. Definitely will be an entertaining few days.

[Bob Sheed]

If there is a run on QB's like I think there will be I could see a player of value falling to the Bengals at 33...I would imagine the Bengals phone will be ringing off the hook on day 2. Definitely will be an entertaining few days.

There will be a run on WRs too. There should be a pretty good non-WR non-QB pick waiting for the Bengals at 33.

[KoryMac5]

Draft is deep with OL if someone like Austin Jackson is sitting there at 33 you have to consider pouncing...bookends for Burrow for 10 yrs in Williams and Jackson. The combine will obviously reveal more in the coming weeks.

[membengal]

Jeaux Goods
@JoeGoodberry
·
Feb 4
Joe Mixon was arguably the best RB in football over the second half of the season and the Bengals still struggled to score 20 points per game.
They need to build the team for Burrow.

[membengal]

You wanna know how you bake in a 2-14 campaign last year? You have a draft class in 2015 that looks like this:


Blake Jewell
@bjewell43_
·
8m
Bengals 2015 draft class

Rd1: Cedric Ogbuehi❌
Rd2: Jake Fisher❌
Rd3: Tyler Kroft❌
Rd3: Paul Dawson❌
Rd4: Josh Shaw❌
Rd4: Marcus Hardison❌
Rd5: CJ Uzomah ����
Rd6: Derron Smith❌
Rd7: Mario Alford❌

They absolutely need to do the OPPOSITE of that in terms of success from this draft after Burrow.

[Redsfaithful]

That's a good example of where emphasizing drafting for need and not BPA can land you.

[Ohayou]

Lol. I totally forgot about Paul Dawson. Guenther compared him to Burfict.

[membengal]

That's a good example of where emphasizing drafting for need and not BPA can land you.

And how.

Here was my latest mock this AM on fanspeak - I traded back twice in the 2nd to pick up an extra 4th and 5th. I really like this one. Used Matt Miller's updated Big Board - computer making selections for all but the Bengals:

1: R1P1
QB JOE BURROW
LSU

55: R2P23
CB NOAH IGBINOGHENE
AUBURN

65: R3P1
LB MALIK HARRISON
OHIO STATE

104: R4P1
WR DENZEL MIMS
BAYLOR

115: R4P12
G DAMIEN LEWIS
LSU

147: R5P1
OT TREY ADAMS
WASHINGTON

157: R5P11
G JONAH JACKSON
OHIO STATE

180: R6P1
S JEREMY CHINN
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS

215: R7P1
EDGE TREVIS GIPSON
TULSA

[Bob Sheed]

dp

[KoryMac5]

Morrison has a nice article up in the Athletic in regards to fixing the Defense through FA...he doesn't think Tobin will make a splash but lists a few names that graded out well in PFF that would pair well with Pratt.

I could also see them drafting a guy they like in the early rounds of the draft.


Nick Kwiatkoski Bears rep is John Thorton
Josh Bynes Ravens


if you don't have a subscription to the Athletic go out and get one it is worth it

[membengal]

Blake Jewell
@bjewell43_
·
4h
Passing grades under pressure (via
@pff
)

Joe Burrow (80.5)
Jalen Hurts (68.5)
Jake Fromm (63.6)
Justin Herbert (57.9)
Tua Tagovailoa (50.7)
Jordan Love (48.6)
Jacob Eason (37.6)

[Sea Ray]

And how.

Here was my latest mock this AM on fanspeak - I traded back twice in the 2nd to pick up an extra 4th and 5th. I really like this one. Used Matt Miller's updated Big Board - computer making selections for all but the Bengals:




I understand it's just for fun, but seriously, you got ripped off on your trade. You moved down from the #1 pick in the second rd to the 23rd. That equates to a loss of 230 pts according to this value chart:

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp

The 4th rd pick you got was worth 64 pts and the 5th rd pick was worth 28. That leaves 138 points that you left on the table or the equivalent of a late 3rd rd pick.

Point here is this: If our Bengals made a trade like that on draft day, us fans would be mighty ticked that we got ripped off. It'd be worth the deal if you also got Cleveland's late 3rd rd pick

[membengal]

It is indeed an exercise. Feel free to do your own. I tend not to give a crap about trade value charts. No trades were offered me - I had to seek some out. Best player on board was McKinney the safety at pick 33 - I ended up with a CB and two interior linemen with the extra two picks - and good ones. I am would rather have those three in this draft. Point is to figure out where the depth is - the depth is through rounds 3-5 - I am not gonna kick extra picks out of bed.

[ScotlandRed]

I’d honestly have Auden Tate as the number 3 receiver ahead of Ross. I saw more potential from him last season, including some incredible catches, than I’ve ever seen from Ross and he can hopefully build on that after his injury.

That’s not a bad 4.

[Sea Ray]

It is indeed an exercise. Feel free to do your own. I tend not to give a crap about trade value charts. No trades were offered me - I had to seek some out. Best player on board was McKinney the safety at pick 33 - I ended up with a CB and two interior linemen with the extra two picks - and good ones. I am would rather have those three in this draft. Point is to figure out where the depth is - the depth is through rounds 3-5 - I am not gonna kick extra picks out of bed.

How do they do trades on that site?

[Redsfaithful]

Dalton has never been elite with the deep passes. Put Ross with an accurate QB and who knows? Feels like he gets wide open all the time and either drops it or the ball isn't thrown within five yards.

[Sea Ray]

I don't think Ross will ever be a decent NFL player. He's very fast but he's not a football player. It was a horrible pick. I was with a bunch of guys from Seattle when we picked him and they laughed me out of there. I took all kinds of abuse all weekend long for that...and I knew they were right

[WVRed]

How do they do trades on that site?

You have to pay for it.

[membengal]

How do they do trades on that site?

Either the program proposes some at your turn, or, if it declines to propose some - you can propose your own. Premium feature - I paid $12 to feed my obsession this year.

[KoryMac5]

I don't think Ross will ever be a decent NFL player. He's very fast but he's not a football player. It was a horrible pick. I was with a bunch of guys from Seattle when we picked him and they laughed me out of there. I took all kinds of abuse all weekend long for that...and I knew they were right

You are getting nothing for Ross...might as well keep him and see if he can turn into a guy who can go 55/700. Burrow throws a nice ball let’s see what he can do with Ross.

[WVRed]

You are getting nothing for Ross...might as well keep him and see if he can turn into a guy who can go 55/700. Burrow throws a nice ball let’s see what he can do with Ross.

Best case secenario he’s Ted Ginn Jr.

Might be a good player down the road but it’ll likely be with another team.

[Sea Ray]

You are getting nothing for Ross...might as well keep him and see if he can turn into a guy who can go 55/700. Burrow throws a nice ball let’s see what he can do with Ross.

I agree with that. Know why we're getting nothing? Yeah.

I agree we should allow him to earn a job at summer camp

[WVRed]

Here’s my mock:

1. Burrow
2. Laviska Shenault Jr (WR-Colorado)
3. Lucas Niang (OT-TCU)
4. Thaddeus Moss (TE-LSU)
5. Nick Coe (EDGE-Auburn)
6. Joe Bachie Jr (LB-Michigan St)
7. Geno Stone (S-Iowa)

[North]

That was fast...

[Sea Ray]

Either the program proposes some at your turn, or, if it declines to propose some - you can propose your own. Premium feature - I paid $12 to feed my obsession this year.

This is definitely a fun draft yr to be a Bengal fan. I see that you liked your mock draft. In reality, the Bengals should be able to do even better should they want to deal that 2nd rd pick

[WVRed]

That was fast...

What was fast?

[Hillsdale87]

Best case secenario he’s Ted Ginn Jr.

Might be a good player down the road but it’ll likely be with another team.

Yes, but Ginn is a very valuable player in the right system. Not the value you're looking for with the 9th pick (I think Ginn went 9 too), but still useful. At this point I'd imagine the best you'd get for Ross is a 5/6. I'd rather hold Ross and roll the dice that he gets near his ceiling. Even if he's just Ted Ginn, him as a 3rd WR with Green and Boyd gives Burrow one of the top WR corps in the league


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ohayou]

Here's what I've got, pre-combine:

1. Joe Burrow, QB, LSU
2. Austin Jackson, OT, USC
3. Denzel Mims, WR, Baylor
4. Tyler Biadasz, OL, Wisconsin
5. McTelvin Agim, DT, Arkansas
6. Moahamed Barry, LB, Nebraska
7. Levonta Taylor, CB, Florida State

Second round really depends who's there. If Shenault is there, I might go with him. Justin Jefferson is interesting, but he's kind of slow. Reagor, I believe will make it to the 2nd - he's got a lot of upside as a WR as well.

[membengal]

Nice, that’s Another mock draft with a really good receiver in round 3. Man I really want the bengals to have extra picks. C’mon trades ahead of time and on day 2.

[WVRed]

Nice, that’s Another mock draft with a really good receiver in round 3. Man I really want the bengals to have extra picks. C’mon trades ahead of time and on day 2.

Depends on who’s available. Bengals have all the leverage in the world. If somebody drops, by all means take them.

Has trading down really benefited the Bengals in the past? I know two of the last three second round picks have been solid but I don’t know if the extra picks they received panned out to be worth it.

[Ohayou]

Depends on who’s available. Bengals have all the leverage in the world. If somebody drops, by all means take them.

Has trading down really benefited the Bengals in the past? I know two of the last three second round picks have been solid but I don’t know if the extra picks they received panned out to be worth it.

Josh Malone and Malik Jefferson are the two guys who come to mind from the recent trade downs involving Mixon/Bates. While neither one panned out, they were considered pretty good picks at the time, considering where they were originally projected to go. Bengals got their guy, either way.

[membengal]

Depends on who’s available. Bengals have all the leverage in the world. If somebody drops, by all means take them.

Has trading down really benefited the Bengals in the past? I know two of the last three second round picks have been solid but I don’t know if the extra picks they received panned out to be worth it.

Two things - one, I’ve run enough mocks now to have come to the realization that this is a really good draft in the middle. Second- just because the bengals have effed up the actual picks when they’ve traded back in the past shouldn’t factor into a decision to trade back now.

[membengal]

PFF Draft
@PFF_College
·
Feb 8
"Mayfield did it for more seasons, Kyler Murray did more as a runner, but Joe Burrow flat-out buried elite defenses in a way we’ve never seen done before"

@PFF_Mike
| #NFLDraft

[membengal]

Here's another Monday mock - fanspeak - trades on - I did the picking - traded back twice in round 2 and picked up an additional 2nd round pick and a bunch of picks in 4th, 5th and 6th. I would kill for the Bengals to be able to get this kind of extra draft capital. Ended up with 12 selections in this mock...really happy to address DB, OL and WR in this draft with a premium LB still available at top of 3rd round...

1: R1P1
QB JOE BURROW
LSU

2: R2P18
CB NOAH IGBINOGHENE
AUBURN

3: R2P24
CB TREVON DIGGS
ALABAMA

4: R3P1
LB MALIK HARRISON
OHIO STATE

5: R4P1
WR DENZEL MIMS
BAYLOR

6: R4P41
G JONAH JACKSON
OHIO STATE

7: R5P1
OT TREY ADAMS
WASHINGTON

8: R5P17
EDGE ALTON ROBINSON
SYRACUSE

9: R5P20
WR TYLER JOHNSON
MINNESOTA

10: R6P1
S JEREMY CHINN
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS

11: R6P17
DL DAVON HAMILTON
OHIO STATE

12: R7P1
OT CALVIN THROCKMORTON
OREGON

[RiverRat13]

Hobson thinks the Bengals are just fine and dandy on the offensive line - https://www.bengals.com/news/hobson-s-choice-going-deep-on-narratives

[Spanky]

Hobson thinks the Bengals are just fine and dandy on the offensive line - https://www.bengals.com/news/hobson-s-choice-going-deep-on-narratives

I don't expect them to address the O-line early in this draft (unless someone falls to them in the top of round 2) but they really need a ton of defensive help. they can draft the best defensive player available at the top of round 2 and that player would have a chance for significant play time in their first year. I think they should target the secondary at the top of round 2 they could use an upgrade at S and CB so the best DB available would be my choice.

[membengal]

Hobson thinks the Bengals are just fine and dandy on the offensive line - https://www.bengals.com/news/hobson-s-choice-going-deep-on-narratives

Yeah, I know he's working the room - but there are definitely guys that can help who will be available in rounds 3 - 5 and if we can get some other picks through player trades (Dalton, Dre etc) or from moving back in round 2, they can address defense AND o-line, and other stuff (which my latest swipe at a mock showed).

[bucksfan2]

YOUR PICKS
1: R1P1
QB JOE BURROW
LSU

2: R2P1
EDGE YETUR GROSS-MATOS
PENN STATE

3: R3P1
LB MALIK HARRISON
OHIO STATE

4: R4P1
WR K.J. HILL
OHIO STATE

5: R5P1
S JORDAN FULLER
OHIO STATE

6: R6P1
DL DAVON HAMILTON
OHIO STATE

7: R7P1
DL ROBERT LANDERS
OHIO STATE

So I had a little fun trying to put together the best team I could primarily drafting OSU players. I could have taken Arnette in the 2nd, but I thought that was too much of a reach, and if Gross-Matos is there, I think you sprint up to take him.

I thought Jonah Jackson would have been there in the 4th but he was gone, and Jordan Fuller is a reach in the 5th. But other than that, I think you could build out a solid draft only drafting OSU guys (after Burrow.) Realistically, Arnette, Harrison, Hamilton, Jackson, and Landers would be great picks for the Bengals if they get them in the right spot.

[Spanky]

YOUR PICKS
1: R1P1
QB JOE BURROW
LSU

2: R2P1
EDGE YETUR GROSS-MATOS
PENN STATE

3: R3P1
LB MALIK HARRISON
OHIO STATE

4: R4P1
WR K.J. HILL
OHIO STATE

5: R5P1
S JORDAN FULLER
OHIO STATE

6: R6P1
DL DAVON HAMILTON
OHIO STATE

7: R7P1
DL ROBERT LANDERS
OHIO STATE

So I had a little fun trying to put together the best team I could primarily drafting OSU players. I could have taken Arnette in the 2nd, but I thought that was too much of a reach, and if Gross-Matos is there, I think you sprint up to take him.

I thought Jonah Jackson would have been there in the 4th but he was gone, and Jordan Fuller is a reach in the 5th. But other than that, I think you could build out a solid draft only drafting OSU guys (after Burrow.) Realistically, Arnette, Harrison, Hamilton, Jackson, and Landers would be great picks for the Bengals if they get them in the right spot.

Can K.J. Hill play outside at all, if not i could see him and Boyd clashing a bit when it comes to fitting into the offense. unless the Bengals run more 4 WR sets and double up on slot guys.

[KoryMac5]

Lance Zierlein now has analysis for all prospects invited to combine with comps...

Burrow graded out at 7.07, Tua is at 6.82, Herbert is 6.45, and Chase Young was 7.4

8.0 is a perfect prospect
7.3-7.5 perennial all pro
7.0-7.1 pro bowl talent

[membengal]

Good tweet on Burrow’s pocket presence and movement - this is an area where the difference from Burrow to dalton is going to be glaring:

https://twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1217332865958019073

[bucksfan2]

Can K.J. Hill play outside at all, if not i could see him and Boyd clashing a bit when it comes to fitting into the offense. unless the Bengals run more 4 WR sets and double up on slot guys.

I don't know and I don't see KJ as a realistic player for the Bengals. One guy who I think could be a decent UFA is Austin Mack. Guy battled injuries and inconsistencies during his time at OSU, but I think he could be a solid NFL player.

I do think you could have an all OSU draft and have a pretty good draft. I do think guys like Arnette, Harrison, Jonah Jackson and then Landers and Hamilton later would be solid picks for the Bengals. The other guys I really don't see much of a fit.

I don't watch as much college football as I used to, I primarily watch OSU and B1G football and end up watching the big national games when life doesn't get in the way. One thing I did notice in watching OSU was Gross-Matos had a good game against OSU, probably a better game than most defensive players this season. I think he can be a very good edge rusher, especially if you get good value for him.

Another PSU guy who I think could fill a need (and jettison John Ross) is KJ Hamler. Guy has speed to burn and tended to make plays when you knew he was the only guy on PSU who could make plays.

[KoryMac5]

Not sure if anyone posted this...the writer does say Denver's interest is unconfirmed beat writer speculated it was Elway reaching out to gauge the cost of moving up.


.@Bengals I have been told are listening to offers for the #1 pick in the @NFL Draft from :

1. @Chargers
2. @MiamiDolphins
3. @Broncos
4. @ChicagoBears
5. @Buccaneers



I am honestly not sure what anyone other then Miami would offer the Bengals for #1 but I suspect they were just preliminary talks weighing costs and figuring out which QB would be feasible through trade. Writer speculates Denver would give all 5 of their picks in the top 100 and possibly next yrs first rounder. I would expect rumors to heat things up after the combine.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/denver-broncos-are-rumored-to-have-talked-to-cincinnati-bengals-about-cost-of-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick

[Redhook]

Not sure if anyone posted this...the writer does say Denver's interest is unconfirmed beat writer speculated it was Elway reaching out to gauge the cost of moving up.



I am honestly not sure what anyone other then Miami would offer the Bengals for #1 but I suspect they were just preliminary talks weighing costs and figuring out which QB would be feasible through trade. Writer speculates Denver would give all 5 of their picks in the top 100 and possibly next yrs first rounder. I would expect rumors to heat things up after the combine.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/denver-broncos-are-rumored-to-have-talked-to-cincinnati-bengals-about-cost-of-trading-no-1-overall-draft-pick

I’m not sure how the draft pick trade calculator works, but I wonder if that would be enough. I don’t think it is. I do know this, whatever the calculator deems as fair, Brown won’t trade the pick unless he’s getting way more value than that. And, rightfully so in this case. I think it’d have to be 6 draft picks, 3-4 first and 2-3 seconds. Miami seems to be the only team that could potentially match up. Miami’s first 4 picks this year and first 2 next year would be awfully difficult to pass up.

[membengal]

More on Burrow going off-script and dealing with pressure:

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/1205183226513367041

Also, here was Dehner today in the Athletic trying to figure out what a deal might look like that the Bengals would have to consider - this was the closest he could get and even then probably not enough:


So, what does winning a trade by almost double in value actually look like? Well, nobody has more capital to pull it off than the Dolphins with all their picks, so let’s use them. The exchange that could make it work looks like this:

Dolphins get

No. 1 overall (3,000)
Bengals get

No. 5 overall (1,700)
No. 18 overall (900)
No. 26 overall (700)
No. 56 overall (340)
No. 70 overall (240)
2021 first-round (AVG: 1,000)
2021 third-round (AVG: 190)
Total: 5,050 – 3,000 = Bengals +2,050

This would be an incredible haul. Consider with Cincinnati already owning 33 and 65, it would give them seven of the top 70 picks plus a first-rounder next year. You have to go back four drafts to rack up seven picks made in the top 70 for the Bengals.

Would anyone actually do that? In the quarterback game, never say never, I suppose. Even if it were on the table, though, you have to wonder whether the Bengals would even do it. In some respects, if you have your guy and believe Burrow can be everything this past year at LSU suggested he can be, there might not be any price that could make you not take him.

For that reason, the Bengals hold all the power and can ask for whatever they want. And you better believe they’ll be asking for plenty.

[Redsfaithful]

I'd be upset about that trade.

You'd get 2-3 impact players out of those 7 picks if you were lucky, 4-5 starters if you were lucky, and you're probably still behind at the QB position even after drafting Tua or Herbert.

I look at picks outside of the top 10 as being Dre Kirkpatrick. He's basically a 7 year starter - that's not all you hope for from pick 17, but it's also not the worst case scenario. Getting a few Dre Kirkpatricks and maybe 1-2 pro bowl type of players isn't enough compared to a franchise QB, and that's a good scenario. Those picks could almost all easily - EASILY - bust.

[membengal]

We are on the same page. I am Burrow or nothing at this point - unapologetically.

[KoryMac5]

Trades like the ones proposed above get you back to mediocre which is where the Bengals have been...I think the Bengals want to be blown away by an offer and I think they need to know they can get someone similar talent wise to Tua in the deal.

If you pass on Burrow it may be 10 yrs before you get to take that shot again.

[WrongVerb]

If I was drafting my philosophy would be to take the best OL or DL I can get in the first round, unless I can get a franchise level QB. You gotta take Burrow at #1, regardless.

[membengal]

These are all just so helpful in defining what Burrow’s special traits are (and really do stand in sharp contrast to Dalton - bless his heart):

https://twitter.com/qbklass/status/1208141881432932352?s=21

[Todd Gack]

Hey guys, Positive Pete penned a letter to fans today to get them to buy season tickets.

https://700wlw.iheart.com/featured/lance-mcalister/content/2020-02-11-bengals-season-ticket-holders-get-letter-from-zac-taylor/

Can anyone tell me something very important he failed to mention that they would/should do?

[membengal]

Wrong thread friend.

[KoryMac5]

I would not expect season ticket sales to remain flat once Burrow is in the fold...Franchise QB's always generate excitement something this franchise is in desperate need of.

[membengal]

Maybe Burrow will be Greg Cook come again only this time without the career ending injury:

https://twitter.com/bengaljims_btr/status/1227401623116357632?s=21

[Bob Sheed]

When was the last time there was hype around a QB like there is with Burrow?

My opinion is, you have to go back to 2012 and Andrew Luck.

I'm hyped, and they better not trade that pick for anything. Because an elite QB can carry a team to the playoffs just about by himself these days.

[WVRed]

When was the last time there was hype around a QB like there is with Burrow?

My opinion is, you have to go back to 2012 and Andrew Luck.

I'm hyped, and they better not trade that pick for anything. Because an elite QB can carry a team to the playoffs just about by himself these days.

I’m not buying it. Too much smoke being put out on fluff pieces. Football season is over and people are looking for something to write.

[Bob Sheed]

I’m not buying it. Too much smoke being put out on fluff pieces. Football season is over and people are looking for something to write.

So you would look to trade Burrow to stockpile picks?

[WVRed]

So you would look to trade Burrow to stockpile picks?

What I meant is I’m not buying that the Bengals are looking to deal. I’m sure they are doing their due diligence but I don’t see it happening nor should it.

[Bob Sheed]

What I meant is I’m not buying that the Bengals are looking to deal. I’m sure they are doing their due diligence but I don’t see it happening nor should it.

Oh I agree then. Burrow checks off every one of Mike Brown's boxes, and in this case, I mean that in a good way.

Burrow's a Bengal unless he does something crazy.

[Redhook]

We are on the same page. I am Burrow or nothing at this point - unapologetically.

I’m of the same opinion. I’ve had arguments with friends over this, but he literally is their only hope. Not just to get back to the playoffs, but saving the team from moving in 6 years.

Curious, is there any package of picks that you’d trade the pick for? Is he priceless?

[membengal]

For me? No, no package.

[Spanky]

When was the last time there was hype around a QB like there is with Burrow?

My opinion is, you have to go back to 2012 and Andrew Luck.

I'm hyped, and they better not trade that pick for anything. Because an elite QB can carry a team to the playoffs just about by himself these days.

I would agree that Luck was the last QB with this much hype and the clear cut choice for the team picking no. 1 overall. The reason all the pieces being written about how burrow should tell the Bengals to not draft him are because the pick is so obvious. this did'n't happen with the Colts though because they weren't coming off of 4 straight seasons without making the playoffs and because of Peyton's HOF career. The narrative of the Bengals ruining QBs career is the only thing that bothers me because it is a pretty lazy take I've only watched the Bengals since 2004 ( I was 5 years old then) and they have only had 2 QBs since I've been watching that's way less than these other franchises they want Burrow to go to.

[Bob Sheed]

But no pressure, Joe.

[Spanky]

But no pressure, Joe.

That's why he's a perfect fit. he's cool hand Luke when he's under pressure.

[Big Red Smokey]

Anyone read this terrible piece from LaCanfora.

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/1226987431242715136

[KoryMac5]

Anyone read this terrible piece from LaCanfora.

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/1226987431242715136

I saw this last weekend and he has been hammered on twitter for it...The NFL would have to step in if that deal was even thought about.

[membengal]

Anyone read this terrible piece from LaCanfora.

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/1226987431242715136

He has been ratio’d for that drivel. My response of “god this is dumb” has 20 likes.

[membengal]

PFF Draft
@PFF_College
·
14s
Damien Lewis in 2018 & 2019

1,089 Pass-blocking snaps
22 QB pressures allowed

Another example of why I would kill for an extra 3rd round pick - would love a shot at Lewis (one of Burrow's protectors last year) to add to the G mix. He would be an immediate upgrade at RG in particular.

[Spanky]

Another example of why I would kill for an extra 3rd round pick - would love a shot at Lewis (one of Burrow's protectors last year) to add to the G mix. He would be an immediate upgrade at RG in particular.

Bengals have traded back in the second round the past couple of years. If a team likes a guy at 33 and is desperate enough they could get an extra 3rd.

[membengal]

That's my definite hope, Spanky.

Also, more Burrow under pressure stuff:


Blake Jewell
@bjewell43_
·
1h
Joe Burrow stats & rank under pressure this season (via
@PFF
)

-147.4 Passer Rating (1st)
-78.0 Adj. Comp % (1st)
-16 TDs (1st)
-1,340 yards (1st)

And even more on this from Football Outsiders:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2020/futures-lsu-qb-joe-burrow

[WrongVerb]

Bengals exec on Andy Dalton: 'He's certainly not done' (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098320/article/bengals-exec-on-andy-dalton-hes-certainly-not-done)



Andy Dalton made the Pro Bowl as a rookie. He led the Bengals to the playoffs five straight years. He's the highest-rated passer in franchise history.

If this is the end of the line for him in Cincinnati, look for the only NFL team he's ever played for to part ways with him honorably.

Bengals director of player personnel Duke Tobin told NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport on the latest RapSheet + Friends podcast the team has yet to make a decision on Dalton, who is still under contract for another year. But it sounds like Dalton will be the first to know if/when the Bengals commit to selecting a quarterback with the first pick of the 2020 NFL Draft.


The process could be expedited if Cincinnati finds a suitable trade partner before the draft. While Dalton would presumably want a chance to compete for a starting job, a new team would likely ask him to restructure a contract that nets him $17.5 million in base salary next season. The 32-year-old QB is coming off arguably his worst year, having completed just 59.5 percent of his passes with 16 touchdowns and 14 interceptions. He was benched in favor of rookie Ryan Finley in October but reclaimed the starting job in December and led the Bengals to their only two wins of 2019.

[KoryMac5]

PFF ranked the draft in regards to positional strength:


1. WR
2. OT
3. CB
4. DT
5. QB
6. RB
7. IOL
8. LB
9. Edge
10. S
11. TE

I would agree with trading back in the 2nd if you can pick up a few picks and still get your guy...now if someone falls all bets are off.

[Redsfaithful]

That lines up pretty well with Bengals needs, outside of the linebacker position.

[Todd Gack]

Wrong thread friend.

Where was I complaining about the owner.

[Todd Gack]

Can we talk about Free Agency at all? We obviously know Burrow is going #1. IMO, mocks are worthless because none of them ever turn out to be remotely close to accurate especially past the first round. But we do have a better understanding of FA. Who should we be targeting in FA?

[Bob Sheed]

Can we talk about Free Agency at all?

You mean about which free agents the Bengals should sign? What's the point?

Might as well talk about which seat I should take on the Berkshire Hathaway Board of Directors. And which supermodel I should wine and dine afterwards.

Which curable disease should we here at RedsZone eradicate next?

[membengal]

Other thread, fellas. That’s owner complaining. The Bengals do participate in FA yearly, you are welcome to talk about what you think they may do, but if you are going to use that as a shield to complain about ownership and its approach , take it to the other thread, thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Here’s a mock at TDN - could not get the computer to accept any deals to trade back - so straight seven picks in seven rounds using their predictive algorithm for the picks other than the ones I made for the bengals:

1. Burrow, QB, LSU
2. Queen, LB, LSU
3. Diggs, CB, Alabama
4. Lewis, G, LSU
5. Pittman JR, WR, USC
6. Fuller, S, tOSU
7. Throckmorten, OT, Oregon

[JaxRed]

Other thread, fellas. That’s owner complaining. The Bengals do participate in FA yearly, you are welcome to talk about what you think they may do, but if you are going to use that as a shield to complain about ownership and its approach , take it to the other thread, thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Here’s a mock at TDN - could not get the computer to accept any deals to trade back - so straight seven picks in seven rounds using their predictive algorithm for the picks other than the ones I made for the bengals:

1. Burrow, QB, LSU
2. Queen, LB, LSU
3. Diggs, CB, Alabama
4. Lewis, G, LSU
5. Pittman JR, WR, USC
6. Fuller, S, tOSU
7. Throckmorten, OT, Oregon

Looks like Ed Ogeron did the drafting !!

[membengal]

Funny how the board fell - queen was top ranked on the board available in round two - but I did reach down about 10 places for Lewis in round four - but I am a big fan of his potential and wanted to get someone for the line that round...

[Bob Sheed]

Other thread, fellas. That’s owner complaining. The Bengals do participate in FA yearly, you are welcome to talk about what you think they may do

Great. Thanks for your permission.

They will do absolutely nothing.

Because... (checks thread title) ...it's the smart thing to do.

[membengal]

Too hard to give people a space to talk about the team, huh? (and you cutoff the gentle end to that sentence when you quoted me) I think it has been working out well for seven pages, please consider allowing that to continue? It is unlikely the Bengals will make a BIG splash signing as they don't generally do that. Whether that is Mike Brown or Duke Tobin, I would expect that to continue, but perhaps not. We will see in one months time. In a perfect world I would want them to try for Glasgow at G out of Detroit (Ryan's brother) and the Cleveland LB. I think those would be smart signings that would help the team and cost some coin. I don't see them going all Albert Haynesworth sized contract for a FA to make you or Gack happy, but there we are.

[Redhook]

Too hard to give people a space to talk about the team, huh? (and you cutoff the gentle end to that sentence when you quoted me) I think it has been working out well for seven pages, please consider allowing that to continue? It is unlikely the Bengals will make a BIG splash signing as they don't generally do that. Whether that is Mike Brown or Duke Tobin, I would expect that to continue, but perhaps not. We will see in one months time. In a perfect world I would want them to try for Glasgow at G out of Detroit (Ryan's brother) and the Cleveland LB. I think those would be smart signings that would help the team and cost some coin. I don't see them going all Albert Haynesworth sized contract for a FA to make you or Gack happy, but there we are.

Did I read somewhere that they have about $50 million available to spend this offseason? Is that correct? Not that they’d spend all of it, but that’d be plenty to sign the two you mentioned above.

I also read that they’re going to work with Dalton on finding his next team. I found that interesting and a pretty clear sign that it’s going to be Burrow. Not that there was any doubt. What’s Dalton worth? A 3rd or 4th rounder?

[membengal]

They have a lot - it is enough to land really good free agents, if they will admit that is something that might be valuable to building the team. Tobin has in the past been REALLY reluctant to go that route. I note that they were more active in FA in the Marvin 2003-2009 years. I think since Tobin seemed to get more power around 2010 and really became the de factor GM his style is to not do that as much. That's why I don't want this to turn into a Mike Brown bash-party - I think some a lot of their approach to FA in the last decade mirrors Tobin's preferred approach (listen to his interview with Goodberry on the locked on bengals podcast and you will see why I say that). I would imagine some of the FA money will be spent on Green (either franchise tag at $18 million) or a new deal.

I hope Dalton is worth a 3rd, but would happily take a 4th.

[Redhook]

Interesting. Didn’t know all that. The one area that baffles me in linebacker. They at least seem to somewhat acknowledge the importance of the OL and have tried to address it over the years. Some years have been successful while other years have been poor. But, linebacker. What a gaping hole year after year. And, they’re linebackers are always slower than molasses. It’s really odd they seem to avoid that position.

[JaxRed]

There's so many veteran QB's that might come on market, I'd wait out the Bengals if I had an interest in Dalton. See if they release him outright and then sign him as a bargain.

[Bob Sheed]

I would take anything for Dalton. A 4th rounder would be incredible.

If released, I don't think he would re-sign with the Bengals. He wants to start.

[Roy Tucker]

Found out the my daughter’s best friend from high school has a younger sister that is Burrow’s girlfriend. They met at OSU. Evidently there have been Burrow sightings around Mason.

[KoryMac5]

PFf identified 3 targets for the Bengals in FA

Byron Jones, Joe Thuney, and Hunter Henry...

I would be on board with any or all 3

[WVRed]

They have a lot - it is enough to land really good free agents, if they will admit that is something that might be valuable to building the team. Tobin has in the past been REALLY reluctant to go that route. I note that they were more active in FA in the Marvin 2003-2009 years. I think since Tobin seemed to get more power around 2010 and really became the de factor GM his style is to not do that as much. That's why I don't want this to turn into a Mike Brown bash-party - I think some a lot of their approach to FA in the last decade mirrors Tobin's preferred approach (listen to his interview with Goodberry on the locked on bengals podcast and you will see why I say that). I would imagine some of the FA money will be spent on Green (either franchise tag at $18 million) or a new deal.

I hope Dalton is worth a 3rd, but would happily take a 4th.

NFL free agency is a completely different animal to the point I’m happy if the Bengals don’t spend.

MLB doesn’t have a salary cap so moves like the Reds have made makes a difference. Due to teams driving up the price though in NFL, you are better off building through the draft.

NFL free agency is only good if you need that one piece to get over the hump or if you shop at Ollies. It’s not a good idea to rebuild a whole team with or you end up like the Jaguars in salary cap hell.

[membengal]

I generally agree. Only thing I would supplement with is that IF you miss on drafts (which happens) and do not do backfills with targeted free agents you end up at...2-14 like we saw last year. Bengals need to be a little more aggressive in targeting FAs who will help free them up to draft BPA - they've fallen into trap in last several years of drafting for need and, well. They should not do that as a general rule.

[membengal]

I cannot yet get enough of these Burrow highlight dealies:

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/1227955620415987718

[Todd Gack]

I generally agree. Only thing I would supplement with is that IF you miss on drafts (which happens) and do not do backfills with targeted free agents you end up at...2-14 like we saw last year. Bengals need to be a little more aggressive in targeting FAs who will help free them up to draft BPA - they've fallen into trap in last several years of drafting for need and, well. They should not do that as a general rule.

For the most part, I've thought the Bengals have done a good job even during the Marvin years of taking BPA. Sometimes they will draft for need because they need to.

[membengal]

For the most part, I've thought the Bengals have done a good job even during the Marvin years of taking BPA. Sometimes they will draft for need because they need to.

I feel like they got away from BPA in the 2015-2019 timeframe. That is in part because I think they sat out too much of FA along with letting too many free agents go. Do they reach on Ogbuihi if they are not already planning on letting Whit walk? Do they reach on Ross if they have not burned the WR room to the ground after Jones and Sanu left? Just has felt like they got away from BPA to backfill FA losses without using FA to help and that cycle has led to this. I would love for them to be much more aggressive this year and going forward in FA to free up the draft for BPA (as much as is possible).

[KoryMac5]

I feel like they got away from BPA in the 2015-2019 timeframe. That is in part because I think they sat out too much of FA along with letting too many free agents go. Do they reach on Ogbuihi if they are not already planning on letting Whit walk? Do they reach on Ross if they have not burned the WR room to the ground after Jones and Sanu left? Just has felt like they got away from BPA to backfill FA losses without using FA to help and that cycle has led to this. I would love for them to be much more aggressive this year and going forward in FA to free up the draft for BPA (as much as is possible).

Uggh the Ross pick...I would have loved to be in the War Room when that pick was made...supposedly Marvin did not want him which is a huge reason he had trouble getting on the field.

[membengal]

Burrow #1 PFF grade when forced out of the pocket to make throws:

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/1227995351501692934

[Spanky]

Uggh the Ross pick...I would have loved to be in the War Room when that pick was made...supposedly Marvin did not want him which is a huge reason he had trouble getting on the field.

I was way more pissed with the Price pick, short armed center with a torn pec in the first round?

[KoryMac5]

I was way more pissed with the Price pick, short armed center with a torn pec in the first round?

Yep especially with James Daniels staring at you...

[membengal]

Yeah - I have memory-holed that already. Absolutely them picking based on need (and not even targeting the right player) rather than BPA...

[KoryMac5]

Morrison hinted in an Athletic piece today that WR and OL might be considerations for the draft...the piece was written in regards to the Bengals futility in the redzone last season.

WR I could see as there is not much after Boyd and Green...

OL is always an option in this draft as it is wicked deep at OT...

[Spanky]

Morrison hinted in an Athletic piece today that WR and OL might be considerations for the draft...the piece was written in regards to the Bengals futility in the redzone last season.

WR I could see as there is not much after Boyd and Green...

OL is always an option in this draft as it is wicked deep at OT...

If Tee Higgans or Laviska Sheanault are there at 33 I run up to the podium, if not I trade back and acquire more picks.

[membengal]

Just gonna leave this here with regard to the Burrow-had-pristine-line-play-in-front-of-him-at-LSU take:

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1228310423557926914


PFF Draft
@PFF_College
Joe Burrow: Most pressured QB in the SEC.

66.4% completion on pressured dropbacks leads the FBS.

[membengal]

PFf identified 3 targets for the Bengals in FA

Byron Jones, Joe Thuney, and Hunter Henry...

I would be on board with any or all 3

Thuney definitely. I don't see them spending on a TE - they already will be at 8 million just for Uzomah and Sample. A CB in FA like Jones would be delightful.

[texasdave]

On the lighter side: https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28701521/zoo-names-baby-giraffe-lsu-qb-joe-burrow


The Burrow name will remain in the LSU area beyond the school's record books for a while, as the Baton Rouge Zoo announced Friday that its new male giraffe will be named "Burreaux."

[Kingspoint]

Dalton has never been elite with the deep passes. Put Ross with an accurate QB and who knows? Feels like he gets wide open all the time and either drops it or the ball isn't thrown within five yards.

It was only a few years ago that Dalton had the highest completion percentage on passes over 20 yards.

[WrongVerb]

It was only a few years ago that Dalton had the highest completion percentage on passes over 20 yards.

I think Bob Sheed put his finger on it years ago: when Dalton has time to throw, he's a very good to great QB. When he's pressured is when his numbers go to hell. And going from the stone wall OL they had during the playoff run to the picket fence they run out there today is likely why Dalton's numbers have come down in that area.

[Redsfaithful]

It was only a few years ago that Dalton had the highest completion percentage on passes over 20 yards.

Lot of noise in a stat like that.

[KoryMac5]

Article up from Matt Miller who works for Bleacher Report...Burrow is the pick. NFL wants teams to be quiet to increase drama for the draft...

So the Bengals are set to select Burrow barring some super crazy trade.

[membengal]

Article up from Matt Miller who works for Bleacher Report...Burrow is the pick. NFL wants teams to be quiet to increase drama for the draft...

So the Bengals are set to select Burrow barring some super crazy trade.

Here's the link:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876125-matt-millers-scouting-notebook-bengals-set-on-joe-burrow-so-whats-next


The Cincinnati Bengals own the No. 1 overall pick in the 2020 NFL draft and have numerous strong options for how to use the selection, but sources connected to both college football and the NFL say the team has already decided who the pick will be.

LSU's Joe Burrow.

Over the last two weeks in various conversations with coaches at LSU, scouts, decision-makers across the NFL and agents who represent top quarterbacks, it has become quite clear that Burrow will be the selection.

"Barring some kind of Ricky Williams trade up the board, they're taking [Burrow]," is how one coach put it in a text this week. Others will tell you this has been known since the Bengals secured the No. 1 overall pick.

[membengal]

Matt Miller
@nfldraftscout
One of my favorite quotes about Burrow.
Quote Tweet

Bruce Feldman
@BruceFeldmanCFB
· 3h
The legend of Pissed Off Joe Burrow is real: “Other teams’ quarterbacks get hit and they *****. Our quarterback gets hit and I’m happy because I know he’s pissed off, and he’s bringing hell with him."

[Bob Sheed]

keep quotes like that coming :thumbup:

Last QB we had like that was Esiason.

[WrongVerb]

keep quotes like that coming :thumbup:

Last QB we had like that was Esiason.

This is my favorite from him so far...

What Joe Burrow said after LSU’s rout of Oklahoma (https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Article/LSU-Football-Joe-Burrow-postgame-interview-after-Tigers-rout-of-Oklahoma-Sooners-141215123/)


Following the game, ESPN sideline reporter Laura Rutledge caught up with Burrow on the field to talk about the Tigers’ big win and his sensational performance.

“Yeah, it was a lot of fun, but this was expected from us,” Burrow said. “We expected to be here from the jump and we’ve worked so hard for this moment. We’ve just got to finish it off.”

Now Burrow and the Tigers are headed to the College Football Playoff National Championship in New Orleans, where they will meet the winner of the PlayStation Fiesta Bowl between No. 2 Ohio State and No. 3 Ohio State. The quarterback is already looking forward to it.

“This is going to be a lot of fun,” Burrow said. “We’ve worked for this for a long time. I know coach O’s ready for it. Our team will be ready for it.”

No celebrating. No relishing the victory. No resting on his laurels at that point. All business.

The guy is the epitome of winning.

[KoryMac5]

Greg Cosell on Burrow:


Joe Burrow - I like Burrow a lot. There's only one thing you would say about Burrow and everybody knows that he does not have high level arm strength, but that would probably be the only thing that was not a real positive in his game. Plays with a lot of poise, a lot of composure, there is a lax calmness to his game, kind of reminded me of Tom Brady in that way - but I think he has all the traits you would look for - poised, vision, clarity, timing , pocket efficiency, precise ball placement. Very accurate thrower and sometimes that's overlooked when we are talking about QBs, especially guys with big arms, and he doesn't have a big arm but he has second reaction ability, can move around and still see thing clearly. He has very good sense of what he's seeing - the term I always use is elimination and isolation. I think he has high level of elimination of what's not there and then isolation of what is there within the structure of the play and that allows him to throw with anticipation and great timing. I think he's a high level prospect. I think he's the no. 1 QB in this draft. He will be the first player off the board in the draft.

[Sea Ray]

I think Bob Sheed put his finger on it years ago: when Dalton has time to throw, he's a very good to great QB. When he's pressured is when his numbers go to hell. And going from the stone wall OL they had during the playoff run to the picket fence they run out there today is likely why Dalton's numbers have come down in that area.

The problem is, even during the Bengals' playoff years, against good competition Dalton's pressure in the pocket increased (as would be expected). This led to disappointing "big" games from him. Another way to put it: He had a low ceiling. Burrow needs to exceed that ceiling if he's going to be a success here

[KoryMac5]

The problem is, even during the Bengals' playoff years, against good competition Dalton's pressure in the pocket increased (as would be expected). This led to disappointing "big" games from him. Another way to put it: He had a low ceiling. Burrow needs to exceed that ceiling if he's going to be a success here

When you watch tape of Burrow the eyes are always up looking downfield scanning for 2nd and 3rd reads...Andy's downfall was he had happy feet in the pocket...as soon as he was pressured the head went down and he was in survival mode...

The playoff game against San Diego always comes to mind when thinking of Dalton...

[Bob Sheed]

When you watch tape of Burrow the eyes are always up looking downfield scanning for 2nd and 3rd reads...Andy's downfall was he had happy feet in the pocket...as soon as he was pressured the head went down and he was in survival mode...

The playoff game against San Diego always comes to mind when thinking of Dalton...

Dalton had great field awareness early on. His height was a limitation seeing over his linemen, but his eyes were always scanning the field, confident that his linemen had his back.

Then the oline went to poop for one reason or another. Then he got his bell rung a few times. Then he started hearing footsteps. And you have the Happy Feet Andy that we know and love today.

Burrow hasn't been Klingerized yet, and he's 6'4''. If the Bengals can maintain some semblance of a pass protecting line, I'm hyped. If they don't... as my dog likes to say, "it's gonna be ruff."

[KoryMac5]

Dalton had great field awareness early on. His height was a limitation seeing over his linemen, but his eyes were always scanning the field, confident that his linemen had his back.

Then the oline went to poop for one reason or another. Then he got his bell rung a few times. Then he started hearing footsteps. And you have the Happy Feet Andy that we know and love today.

Burrow hasn't been Klingerized yet, and he's 6'4''. If the Bengals can maintain some semblance of a pass protecting line, I'm hyped. If they don't... as my dog likes to say, "it's gonna be ruff."

I would agree with this...once Zeitler and Whit left it was all down hill...

I also think he didn't work as much in the offseason on his mechanics (I don't have solid confirmation of this)...but 3 kids and a wife will do that to you.

My guess is he wins up with the Bears for a 4th or 5th round pick

[Kingspoint]

PBS might get burnt to the ground if they don't take Burrow

[membengal]

Most recent Ross Tucker pod is well worth a listen - he had Greg Cosell on and entire pod was discussion of Burrow, Tua and Herbert with some dalton talk as a bonus. Let’s just say after listening to that I am even more reticent about idea of trading back.

Listen to it - but upshot is that even if Tua were healthy he says Burrow is qb1 easily, the comp is peak Brady, and the flags he raises over Herbert make me itchy if god forbid we traded back and took him.

[RiverRat13]

For all of the Burrow was a one year wonder talk, he actually had 300 more passing attempts than Tua in their collegiate careers.

[Bob Sheed]

The numbers for Burrow his Senior Year... Against SEC competition, which is as close to the NFL as you can get at the collegiate level.

This guy is not exactly Akili Smith. And Mike Brown refused to trade down for even Akili Smith.

Burrow is either a generational talent, or he is a bust of proportions never seen before. It would be like if Peyton Manning ended up a bust.

I'm not pondering whether the Bengals are drafting Burrow or not. All 32 teams would make the exact same decision here, even if they were set at QB. I'm pondering what will happen to Burrow once he is a Bengal. Burrow is too, I bet.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm pondering what will happen to Burrow once he is a Bengal. Burrow is too, I bet.

I suspect every player is pondering that same thing. With every team.

[Bob Sheed]

I suspect every player is pondering that same thing. With every team.

Brady pondering Vegas consequences may be just a tad different than Burrow pondering Cincinnati consequences, but hey, whatever gets you in front of the TV on Sundays I guess..

[KoryMac5]

Most recent Ross Tucker pod is well worth a listen - he had Greg Cosell on and entire pod was discussion of Burrow, Tua and Herbert with some dalton talk as a bonus. Let’s just say after listening to that I am even more reticent about idea of trading back.

Listen to it - but upshot is that even if Tua were healthy he says Burrow is qb1 easily, the comp is peak Brady, and the flags he raises over Herbert make me itchy if god forbid we traded back and took him.

Cosell seemed really big on Jordan Love as well...I think he will be the biggest riser post combine.

[membengal]

Mmmmmm:

https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1229225736134852608?s=21

[membengal]

More mmmmmmm:

https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1229267215020675072?s=21

[membengal]

The trade back from Burrow idea/thing comes up here, twitter and everywhere as we count down the time to the draft. Here's my general response given how all-in on Burrow I am:

Take the above two charts I linked in the two above posts...If Burrow was closer to the other three on those charts - sure - a godfather offer I listen to. But he charts so far outside of the normal range for QB prospects that I am not remotely easily moved off of taking him. For a variety of reasons. Among them, that if he reaches his ceiling or close to it, no package can likely make up for passing on that. That I don't trust Tobin et al to maximize a draft haul for him (the Browns showed where that can wrong). That this team desperately needs an injection of life into it that a guy like Burrow can bring that a haul would not. That I am old enough to remember the 1984 Bengals "haul" of 3 first round picks (Ricky Hunley, Pete Koch, Brian Blados). Etc.

Here's the likely trade value chart for 2020 - shows Cincy's number one overall pick at worth 3000 points:

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=MIA

Dehner wrote a column in the Athletic that looked at what it might take to get the Bengals to think about this and he came up with this:

https://theathletic.com/1598466/2020/02/11/this-week-in-bengals-what-would-a-trade-for-the-top-pick-have-to-look-like/


You have to think the Bengals would be using the differential in the Rams-Redskins deal as a floor for where the conversation needs to start (Rams were +1500 for moving back five spots, picking up a current 2nd rounder and two future first rounders- and they mostly fumbled those picks by the way).

Take that into consideration in the conversations surrounding Burrow. Now add to it. They need to win by at least 1,500 points and probably more like 2,000. That’s the value of a potential Pro Bowl quarterback and even more so to an organization in extreme need of a reboot with the fan base and business community.

So, what does winning a trade by almost double in value actually look like? Well, nobody has more capital to pull it off than the Dolphins with all their picks, so let’s use them. The exchange that could make it work looks like this:

Dolphins get

No. 1 overall (3,000)
Bengals get

No. 5 overall (1,700)
No. 18 overall (900)
No. 26 overall (700)
No. 56 overall (340)
No. 70 overall (240)
2021 first-round (AVG: 1,000)
2021 third-round (AVG: 190)
Total: 5,050 – 3,000 = Bengals +2,050

This would be an incredible haul. Consider with Cincinnati already owning 33 and 65, it would give them seven of the top 70 picks plus a first-rounder next year. You have to go back four drafts to rack up seven picks made in the top 70 for the Bengals.

Would anyone actually do that? In the quarterback game, never say never, I suppose. Even if it were on the table, though, you have to wonder whether the Bengals would even do it. In some respects, if you have your guy and believe Burrow can be everything this past year at LSU suggested he can be, there might not be any price that could make you not take him. For that reason, the Bengals hold all the power and can ask for whatever they want. And you better believe they’ll be asking for plenty.

Me? I would have to see an offer that more than doubles the value of the pick to make me think about it. Figure 6500 in value coming back for 3000. That's about 1500 more in value than Dehner posits. That would be my price to forego the opportunity cost of drafting Burrow and all he might become and all he would represent in the short-term to the franchise. That would be my price for thinking about an option where I have to hope that Herbert can overcome his deficits and develop into a good pro QB and hope that the other draft picks would turn into players and not Ogbuehis.

[Spanky]

The trade back from Burrow idea/thing comes up here, twitter and everywhere as we count down the time to the draft. Here's my general response given how all-in on Burrow I am:

Take the above two charts I linked in the two above posts...If Burrow was closer to the other three on those charts - sure - a godfather offer I listen to. But he charts so far outside of the normal range for QB prospects that I am not remotely easily moved off of taking him. For a variety of reasons. Among them, that if he reaches his ceiling or close to it, no package can likely make up for passing on that. That I don't trust Tobin et al to maximize a draft haul for him (the Browns showed where that can wrong). That this team desperately needs an injection of life into it that a guy like Burrow can bring that a haul would not. That I am old enough to remember the 1984 Bengals "haul" of 3 first round picks (Ricky Hunley, Pete Koch, Brian Blados). Etc.

Here's the likely trade value chart for 2020 - shows Cincy's number one overall pick at worth 3000 points:

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=MIA

Dehner wrote a column in the Athletic that looked at what it might take to get the Bengals to think about this and he came up with this:

https://theathletic.com/1598466/2020/02/11/this-week-in-bengals-what-would-a-trade-for-the-top-pick-have-to-look-like/



Me? I would have to see an offer that more than doubles the value of the pick to make me think about it. Figure 6500 in value coming back for 3000. That's about 1500 more in value than Dehner posits. That would be my price to forego the opportunity cost of drafting Burrow and all he might become and all he would represent in the short-term to the franchise. That would be my price for hoping that Herbert can overcome his deficits and develop into a good pro QB and hope that the other draft picks would turn into players and not Ogbuehis.

For me, there is no package I would accept for the NO. 1 overall pick. The Chiefs wouldn't accept any trade for Pat Mahomes so I'm not passing up the opportunity to take a shot at a franchise QB for lottery tickets.

[membengal]

That's where I am , but wanted to put pen to paper (as it were) to look at what a theoretical offer you can't refuse might look like. Turns out, I could still refuse it.

[Spanky]

That's where I am , but wanted to put pen to paper (as it were) to look at what a theoretical offer you can't refuse might look like. Turns out, I could still refuse it.

I think we are in a good spot with Mike Brown being so stubborn, he didn't trade away the opportunity to take Akili Smith so there is no way he will trade away the opportunity to take Joe Burrow.

[membengal]

Let's put some real world meat on a godfather type offer using 2017/18 as a guideline (the Mahomes draft):

Mahomes went 10 overall, but, clearly, if that draft were done over he would have gone #1. He's a generational talent as it turns out.

So, using the 2017 and 2018 drafts, here's the players that Browns hypothetically could have gotten if they had taken the following Dolphins-esque deal instead of selecting Mahomes in that timeline...(they took Myles Garrett in real life - still a cautionary tale re: passing up a QB to go DL re Chase Young as far as I am concerned):


So, let's say the fake offer is.....

Bengals get Miami's 2020 draft picks 5, 26, 39, 56, 70. (Miami keeps pick #18.)

Bengals also get both of Miami's 2021 1st round picks...and one of the 2nd round picks.

So that's 5, 26, 39, 56 and 70 from 2017 and let's call it #8 in 2018 (Mami's own version of 2021) and 24 and 56 (Miami via Houston's version of 2021).

The question becomes, would you trade Mahomes for:

Corey Davis (WR) #5 in 2017
Takkarist McKinley (DE) #26 in 2017
Marcus Maye (S) #39 in 2017
Obi Malinfanwu (S) #56 in 2017 (swap in Dalvin Tomlinson at DT if you prefer for this exercise since they wouldn't take two S in the 2nd)
Pat Elflein (C)#70 in 2017
Roquan Smith (LB) #8 in 2018
DJ Moore (WR) #24 in 2018
Duke Dawson (CB) #56 in 2018

For me, that underscores how much of a crapshoot the draft can be (which we all know, but, still). Now, the Bengals would obviously draft differently in a scenario where they knew they had those picks, but seeing who was available at comparable picks in the Mahomes draft and the following year is kind of instructive. I would rather roll the dice on Burrow than the alternative, based on his ceiling and potential impact on the organization and fanbase.

[bucksfan2]

Let's put some real world meat on a godfather type offer using 2017/18 as a guideline (the Mahomes draft):

Mahomes went 10 overall, but, clearly, if that draft were done over he would have gone #1. He's a generational talent as it turns out.

So, using the 2017 and 2018 drafts, here's the players that Browns hypothetically could have gotten if they had taken the following Dolphins-esque deal instead of selecting Mahomes in that timeline...(they took Myles Garrett in real life - still a cautionary tale re: passing up a QB to go DL re Chase Young as far as I am concerned):



The question becomes, would you trade Mahomes for:

Corey Davis (WR) #5 in 2017
Takkarist McKinley (DE) #26 in 2017
Marcus Maye (S) #39 in 2017
Obi Malinfanwu (S) #56 in 2017 (swap in Dalvin Tomlinson at DT if you prefer for this exercise since they wouldn't take two S in the 2nd)
Pat Elflein (C)#70 in 2017
Roquan Smith (LB) #8 in 2018
DJ Moore (WR) #24 in 2018
Duke Dawson (CB) #56 in 2018

For me, that underscores how much of a crapshoot the draft can be (which we all know, but, still). Now, the Bengals would obviously draft differently in a scenario where they knew they had those picks, but seeing who was available at comparable picks in the Mahomes draft and the following year is kind of instructive. I would rather roll the dice on Burrow than the alternative, based on his ceiling and potential impact on the organization and fanbase.

But Mahomes didn't go #1, and he wasn't the first QB off the board that year, it was Mitch Trubisky. Heck in that draft both Mahomes and Watson went after Trubisky, and both look to be franchise QB's while Trubisky should be looking for another team soon.

Drafting a NFL QB is incredibly tough, and not to rain on everyone's Burrow parade, there are some concerns I have with him. I do think that Tua being injured midway tough the season is a benefit to the Bengals in that they don't have a competing threat for the #1 overall pick. They also have the luxury of taking their best guy, not the next best guy.

[membengal]

Bucksfan - it doesn't matter that Mahomes went 10th ( I addressed that - my question was - IF Burrow hits his ceiling (as Mahomes has) - then what would eight picks for Mahomes have looked like and would that be worth passing up the potential). My point was, WHAT IF the Browns had gotten the same type of godfather offer for #1 overall in 2017 - what players would have been selected from that offer using a potential Dolphins-type haul - in those same draft slots. That was the point of doing that.

My point was, I would rather gamble on Burrow's potential than a the collection of eight picks that dealing out of #1 overall in 2017 would have yielded. Pick any eight picks for Burrow - there will be busts and disappointments in them. Maybe a bunch. I would far rather take a shot on Burrow being what he showed himself to potentially be in 2019 at LSU than pass it up and gamble on a Herbert.

[Spanky]

But Mahomes didn't go #1, and he wasn't the first QB off the board that year, it was Mitch Trubisky. Heck in that draft both Mahomes and Watson went after Trubisky, and both look to be franchise QB's while Trubisky should be looking for another team soon.

Drafting a NFL QB is incredibly tough, and not to rain on everyone's Burrow parade, there are some concerns I have with him. I do think that Tua being injured midway tough the season is a benefit to the Bengals in that they don't have a competing threat for the #1 overall pick. They also have the luxury of taking their best guy, not the next best guy.

I feel like a lot of people thought that the trubisky pick was a mistake. I thought Watson was going to be the first QB taken and was a better prospect than Mitch. I had no idea who Pat Mahomes was coming out of the draft i never watched him in college, but hindsight 20/20 Pat would have been No. 1 overall if teams knew what they know today. Burrow is the clear cut No. 1 overall pick for the fist time in a while and thats why all of these B.S. articles are being published. Arm strength Isn't elite but it's not bad either his anticipation makes up for his arm strength which is why it's no big deal to me. the 1 year of production doesn't concern me because he torched NFL talent all season long( it's not like he played in a group of 5 school). I really have no concerns with JB, but this off-season will tell us a lot if they don't commit to signing solid FA help to kick-start this window. If the front office does this right the "re-build" should only take 2 years. However we all know that can be a lot to ask of this group and i hope that they take a new approach with Burrow at the helm.

[membengal]

I really did not mean for the discussion to go into the whys and wherefores of who went where in 2017. Mahomes was the most recent QB who is going to be a generational talent as it turns out. I was curious what eight picks for someone trading out of the top spot in 2017 would look like using those slots. The collection of names at this slots is instructive on how hit and miss a "haul" can look - and IF burrow gets near his ceiling, how poor that return might look.

I will gamble on ceiling over the alternative.

[bucksfan2]

I really did not mean for the discussion to go into the whys and wherefores of who went where in 2017. Mahomes was the most recent QB who is going to be a generational talent as it turns out. I was curious what eight picks for someone trading out of the top spot in 2017 would look like using those slots. The collection of names at this slots is instructive on how hit and miss a "haul" can look - and IF burrow gets near his ceiling, how poor that return might look.

I will gamble on ceiling over the alternative.

I get the idea of a franchise QB, a great QB and their value. I think people are getting a little over their skies with Burrow at this point. If you look at the first QB's drafted overall, the list is a mixed bag of success. Would the Browns have taken a bevy of picks instead of Baker? Maybe. Goff? Trubisky? Winston? Kyler?

I wouldn't trade Mahomes for anything, nor would I have traded Rodgers, Brady, or Brees in their prime for anything. But those guys (Mahomes included) are HOF QB's. Burrow ain't that yet and who knows if he ever gets there.

Do you trade franchise QB's? Absolutely not. But what if an organization isn't sold on a QB being elite? I am not saying Burrow doesn't deserve to be #1 overall, but its kinda silly talking about him like he is Mahomes.

[Redsfaithful]

I get the idea of a franchise QB, a great QB and their value. I think people are getting a little over their skies with Burrow at this point. If you look at the first QB's drafted overall, the list is a mixed bag of success. Would the Browns have taken a bevy of picks instead of Baker? Maybe. Goff? Trubisky? Winston? Kyler?

I wouldn't trade Mahomes for anything, nor would I have traded Rodgers, Brady, or Brees in their prime for anything. But those guys (Mahomes included) are HOF QB's. Burrow ain't that yet and who knows if he ever gets there.

Do you trade franchise QB's? Absolutely not. But what if an organization isn't sold on a QB being elite? I am not saying Burrow doesn't deserve to be #1 overall, but its kinda silly talking about him like he is Mahomes.

Caution is good, but Burrow is a better prospect out of college than Baker, Goff, Trubisky, Winston, and Kyler.

[Sea Ray]

This is our shot to get a franchise QB. You don't trade that chance

[membengal]

but its kinda silly talking about him like he is Mahomes.

No, it is not. You have to evaluate each potential QB on their ceiling. IF Burrow's ceiling is all-pro potential HOF - and that's what his comps are, then, you do not deal him. Doesn't mean he makes his ceiling. Doesn't mean he pans out like his 100th percentile best. But when his comps are Brady, Brees, Montana (which are three of the comps that experts have thrown around), you draft him and see if he can get near that level. 100 times out of 100. Noting that his ceiling is high isn't getting over skis. It is being real about his potential. He has more potential than Baker, Goff, Trubisky, Kyler and Winston. Coming out. Best since Luck in terms of potential from many observers. You either accept that from them or you don't. I do. Given that, I don't deal him. Period.

[Redhook]

Caution is good, but Burrow is a better prospect out of college than Baker, Goff, Trubisky, Winston, and Kyler.

And it’s not even close.

[Bob Sheed]

Makes no sense to trade the Burrow pick. Image what kind of haul it would take to get KC to trade Mahommes.

If Burrow ends up being Mahommes, they'll never replicate that value in the draft without a crystal ball.
If Burrow ends up being a bust, they'll have another top pick in the following year's draft anyway.

It's all reward and little risk to draft Burrow instead of trading down.

[bucksfan2]

No, it is not. You have to evaluate each potential QB on their ceiling. IF Burrow's ceiling is all-pro potential HOF - and that's what his comps are, then, you do not deal him. Doesn't mean he makes his ceiling. Doesn't mean he pans out like his 100th percentile best. But when his comps are Brady, Brees, Montana (which are three of the comps that experts have thrown around), you draft him and see if he can get near that level. 100 times out of 100. Noting that his ceiling is high isn't getting over skis. It is being real about his potential. He has more potential than Baker, Goff, Trubisky, Kyler and Winston. Coming out. Best since Luck in terms of potential from many observers. You either accept that from them or you don't. I do. Given that, I don't deal him. Period.

Anybody throwing out Brady, Brees and/or Montana comps are out of their minds. The Burrow hype is getting out of control if those comps are there. The one comp I thought was a little extreme was Luck, but I can buy that.

I think its fair to say, what have other top QB's in the draft done. I also think its fair to say he has traits that are very desirable in the game. Odds are far more that he is an average or below average QB than he becomes the next HOF QB. That shouldn't scare you off, but he isn't Brady, Brees, Montana, or Mahomes. If we were fans of another team at the time, we probably would have been all in on Winston or Kyler or Baker. If you took away Winstons off the field actions, the guy was a Heisman winner and National Champ in his two starting seasons in the NFL. I do think there are some comps with Baker, older QB who transferred into a better role, and then really took off in his senior season.

[Redsfaithful]

Anybody throwing out Brady, Brees and/or Montana comps are out of their minds. The Burrow hype is getting out of control if those comps are there. The one comp I thought was a little extreme was Luck, but I can buy that.

I think its fair to say, what have other top QB's in the draft done. I also think its fair to say he has traits that are very desirable in the game. Odds are far more that he is an average or below average QB than he becomes the next HOF QB. That shouldn't scare you off, but he isn't Brady, Brees, Montana, or Mahomes. If we were fans of another team at the time, we probably would have been all in on Winston or Kyler or Baker. If you took away Winstons off the field actions, the guy was a Heisman winner and National Champ in his two starting seasons in the NFL. I do think there are some comps with Baker, older QB who transferred into a better role, and then really took off in his senior season.

The only argument that lines up with this is if you think the offensive college explosion + offensive coordinator are the reasons for Burrow's numbers, otherwise you are way, way underselling how much Burrow's season dwarfs guys like Winston. Have you really dug into his stats?

Pull them up:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jameis-winston-1.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/joe-burrow-1.html

And Burrow did that against much tougher competition.

[ScotlandRed]

https://es.pn/2HzBfXy

Hmmmm

[Spanky]

https://es.pn/2HzBfXy

Hmmmm

He says he has leverage, then goes on to say he'll play for whatever franchise drafts him. He does have leverage in a way, when discussing the plan with the franchise he can let them know if the team doesn't meet certain goals that he will leave. I'm fine with him putting pressure on the Bengals they absolutely need it. If Burrow can't turn this franchise around then nobody will.

[Todd Gack]

He says he has leverage, then goes on to say he'll play for whatever franchise drafts him. He does have leverage in a way, when discussing the plan with the franchise he can let them know if the team doesn't meet certain goals that he will leave. I'm fine with him putting pressure on the Bengals they absolutely need it. If Burrow can't turn this franchise around then nobody will.

Not exactly an encouraging quote.

[Sea Ray]

https://es.pn/2HzBfXy

Hmmmm

I take that to mean that he'll pressure the Bengals to surround him with talent. That's a good thing if you're a Bengal fan

[Sea Ray]

Anybody throwing out Brady, Brees and/or Montana comps are out of their minds. The Burrow hype is getting out of control if those comps are there. The one comp I thought was a little extreme was Luck, but I can buy that.

I think its fair to say, what have other top QB's in the draft done. I also think its fair to say he has traits that are very desirable in the game. Odds are far more that he is an average or below average QB than he becomes the next HOF QB. That shouldn't scare you off, but he isn't Brady, Brees, Montana, or Mahomes. If we were fans of another team at the time, we probably would have been all in on Winston or Kyler or Baker. If you took away Winstons off the field actions, the guy was a Heisman winner and National Champ in his two starting seasons in the NFL. I do think there are some comps with Baker, older QB who transferred into a better role, and then really took off in his senior season.

Baker and Kyler never had the "grades" that Burrow have. Kyler was considered very small and there were questions how his game would translate. Baker was also small and there were lots of questions about his game. In fact it was controversial whether the Browns should have drafted him #1. Winston had off the field issues and questions about his make up, although he did have all the physical skills. No one knows how Burrow will fair in the NFL but the point is that his measurables are above these other guys. He's the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck

[WVRed]

Baker and Kyler never had the "grades" that Burrow have. Kyler was considered very small and there were questions how his game would translate. Baker was also small and there were lots of questions about his game. In fact it was controversial whether the Browns should have drafted him #1. Winston had off the field issues and questions about his make up, although he did have all the physical skills. No one knows how Burrow will fair in the NFL but the point is that his measurables are above these other guys. He's the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck

The difference between Luck and Burrow was that Luck was a known quantity for two years. He would have been the number one pick over Cam Newton had he come out the year prior. The concern with Burrow is he just blew up out of nowhere and whether Taylor can replicate the work that Joe Brady did.

[bucksfan2]

Baker and Kyler never had the "grades" that Burrow have. Kyler was considered very small and there were questions how his game would translate. Baker was also small and there were lots of questions about his game. In fact it was controversial whether the Browns should have drafted him #1. Winston had off the field issues and questions about his make up, although he did have all the physical skills. No one knows how Burrow will fair in the NFL but the point is that his measurables are above these other guys. He's the best QB prospect since Andrew Luck

I think the Baker comp is a good one because both were older QB's who really excelled in their final season. The one thing that does worry me about Burrow is he was a 5th year senior in his break out season. He went from a middle to late round pick to the first overall pick pretty much out of nowhere. If you weren't from Ohio State or LSU you likely had no idea who Burrow was. I don't mean this to sound bad, but Burrow was pretty much a football mercenary at LSU. He was a guy who pretty much studied football 24/7 at LSU or at least his senior season at LSU. He has a lot of advantages over his playing opponents, that he took full advantage of.

What concerns me is what happens when he isn't the elder statesman on the field? What happens when he isn't able to take advantage of his experience against the defense. For as good as Burrow was last season, you rarely ever see elite 5th year seniors play, they have been in the league for two seasons.

[Redhook]

The concern with Burrow is he just blew up out of nowhere and whether Taylor can replicate the work that Joe Brady did.

You’re not really concerned about this, are you? I know I’m not. Nor would any team in the NFL drafting #1. After watching him play, this is beyond a non-issue. I honestly think the reason it’s occasionally brought up is because there’s nothing wrong with his game so people are just trying to find something negative about him.

[Redhook]

I think the Baker comp is a good one because both were older QB's who really excelled in their final season.

Outside of their age playing in college, Baker is not a good comp for Burrow. Their NFL careers will be very different even as they play for the worst 2 organizations in the NFL.

[Sea Ray]

I think the Baker comp is a good one because both were older QB's who really excelled in their final season. The one thing that does worry me about Burrow is he was a 5th year senior in his break out season. He went from a middle to late round pick to the first overall pick pretty much out of nowhere. If you weren't from Ohio State or LSU you likely had no idea who Burrow was. I don't mean this to sound bad, but Burrow was pretty much a football mercenary at LSU. He was a guy who pretty much studied football 24/7 at LSU or at least his senior season at LSU. He has a lot of advantages over his playing opponents, that he took full advantage of.

What concerns me is what happens when he isn't the elder statesman on the field? What happens when he isn't able to take advantage of his experience against the defense. For as good as Burrow was last season, you rarely ever see elite 5th year seniors play, they have been in the league for two seasons.

Yes, he was a one yr wonder. But what doesn't change are his physical skills such as pocket presence, accuracy (particularly while on the run) and foot speed. But he's not a sure thing...he's just as sure a thing as the Bengals will ever get

[RiverRat13]

Burrow arrived at LSU after freshmen had checked in in 2018. He basically had zero time with the playbook before practice started. I think it is telling that he threw for 394 yards and 4 touchdowns in the bowl game that year when given ample time to prepare for the first time.

[membengal]

No joke, this is is easily perhaps the best piece Hobson has ever written:

https://www.bengals.com/news/the-roots-and-rising-of-joe-burrow

It's long, but, read it.

Also, when you read it, try and reconcile the crap that PFT and others are throwing at the wall with the quotes from the people of Athens who are excited about Burrow being just a few hours away and how much Athens means to Burrow and make the he-won't-play-for-Cincy stuff make sense. You can't.

[RiverRat13]

I don't think Burrow has any real thoughts about pulling an Eli. And this kind of situation is the rare occasion where Mike Brown's stubbornness is a positive. If Burrow (or anyone else) wants to play chicken, Mike Brown has shown time and again that he won't be the one to flinch.

[WrongVerb]

NFL Trade (and Signing) Block (http://walterfootball.com/nflpossibilities.php)


Bengals attempting to facilitate trade for QB Andy Dalton
Unless Joe Burrow pulls an Eli Manning and declares that he doesn't want to be chosen by the team atop the NFL Draft, the Bengals will select the LSU quarterback in April. Thus, it makes sense for them to get rid of long-time quarterback Andy Dalton.

Dalton constantly failed in the playoffs for the Bengals, but he at least got them there several times. He's a passable starter and would be an upgrade over some of the other first-string signal-callers in the NFL. At the very worst, he would be an excellent backup. Some team will surrender a third-day pick for him.

Here are some teams that could trade for Dalton:

Chicago Bears: General manager Ryan Pace likely doesn't want to give up on Mitchell Trubisky just yet, but he can't enter the 2020 season with Trubisky as his lone viable starting option. He could add Andy Dalton just in case Trubisky continues to struggle. Perhaps Dalton can manage his new team to a playoff appearance.

New England Patriots: I have the Patriots selecting Jake Fromm in my 2020 NFL Mock Draft, but they'll need a veteran if Tom Brady signs elsewhere. I expect Brady to return to New England, but if he doesn't, Dalton would be a decent bridge to Fromm.

Detroit Lions: Matthew Stafford's back is in bad shape, so perhaps the Lions fear that he could pull an Andrew Luck and retire prior to the season.

Philadelphia Eagles: Given Carson Wentz's injury history, the Eagles may want to find a premium backup.

Carolina Panthers: Cam Newton also has injury concerns. The Panthers may want a stellar backup for him.

San Angeles Chargers: The Chargers likely have plans to draft Justin Herbert. Dalton would be a nice mentor for the Oregon product.

[membengal]

My dream continues to be a 4th for Andy.

[Sea Ray]

OK folks...as some of you know, I go to a draft party every year. It started with just me and my brother in law but it's grown every year. We've never actually gone to the draft but that will all change this year. This will be our biggest party yet. My brother in law has major business connections in Vegas so it all worked out. Here's the scoop:

I've got a huge suite booked for me at the Bellagio (hopefully it's overlooking the fountains which is where the action will be). I'll arrive late Wednesday night and stay until Sat night. I plan to wear my Bengal gear and be in the midst of the madness when Joe Burrow is picked #1 on Thurs afternoon. (Look for me on TV :) ). I'll take in the moment and all but I won't stay there. After I've had enough I'll go back to the draft party which will be catered by my buddy and this party will go on through Friday night. There'll be about a dozen guys at the party. We are sexist. No girls allowed...

2019 sucked to be a Bengal fan but this makes it all worthwhile! I'm fired up. Can't wait!

[KoryMac5]

My dream continues to be a 4th for Andy.

Look at what Baltimore got for Flacco...4th makes sense to me and Andy has a better contract.

[Spanky]

OK folks...as some of you know, I go to a draft party every year. It started with just me and my brother in law but it's grown every year. We've never actually gone to the draft but that will all change this year. This will be our biggest party yet. My brother in law has major business connections in Vegas so it all worked out. Here's the scoop:

I've got a huge suite booked for me at the Bellagio (hopefully it's overlooking the fountains which is where the action will be). I'll arrive late Wednesday night and stay until Sat night. I plan to wear my Bengal gear and be in the midst of the madness when Joe Burrow is picked #1 on Thurs afternoon. (Look for me on TV :) ). I'll take in the moment and all but I won't stay there. After I've had enough I'll go back to the draft party which will be catered by my buddy and this party will go on through Friday night. There'll be about a dozen guys at the party. We are sexist. No girls allowed...

2019 sucked to be a Bengal fan but this makes it all worthwhile! I'm fired up. Can't wait!

Have fun!

[membengal]

It may have been in the other thread that I noted this - but I will be there too, Sea Ray. Flying in and due to land 8:30 am local on Thursday.

[RiverRat13]

I think a 4th is possible. The worst case scenario is that they don't trade him until after free agency and Dalton's $17.5mm prevents them from signing someone.

[Spanky]

I think a 4th is possible. The worst case scenario is that they don't trade him until after free agency and Dalton's $17.5mm prevents them from signing someone.

I think they'll get a deal done ASAP, and a 4th is pretty realistic since that what the Titans gave up for Tannehill last year (Tannehill made less money though).

[membengal]

Pretty sure they want to move on this and free up that money sooner rather than later with FA approaching AND to figure out what additional asset they might have for the draft.

[Sea Ray]

I think a 4th is possible. The worst case scenario is that they don't trade him until after free agency and Dalton's $17.5mm prevents them from signing someone.

It seems to me that the Bengals can say to other teams "if we keep him for one more yr, we'll get a third rounder for him in FA compensation..." Obviously that means keeping his salary on the roster all yr but the Bengals have done dumber things. Another team would have to call his bluff

[Sea Ray]

Pretty sure they want to move on this and free up that money sooner rather than later with FA approaching AND to figure out what additional asset they might have for the draft.

Ideally, yeah, but in reality I think they'll likely have to wait till some team gets desperate due to injury or whatever

[membengal]

Teams will be making their moves soon, there is a lot of QB movement coming, it's not gonna all wait.

[bucksfan2]

It seems to me that the Bengals can say to other teams "if we keep him for one more yr, we'll get a third rounder for him in FA compensation..." Obviously that means keeping his salary on the roster all yr but the Bengals have done dumber things. Another team would have to call his bluff

That is a losing stance for the Bengals. I think everyone in the league knows that Dalton has not spot on this team and that they won't carry the contract this season. They would rather cut the guy than carry his salary.

I think a 4th or 5th is what will happen. If they can drum up some interest, I think they may get a little more. I don't believe anything will happen until Brady determine where he will play next season. That is when the dominoes will start to fall.

[Sea Ray]

That is a losing stance for the Bengals. I think everyone in the league knows that Dalton has not spot on this team and that they won't carry the contract this season. They would rather cut the guy than carry his salary.

I think a 4th or 5th is what will happen. If they can drum up some interest, I think they may get a little more. I don't believe anything will happen until Brady determine where he will play next season. That is when the dominoes will start to fall.

They went into Dalton's rookie year carrying Palmer's contract. What makes you think they wouldn't do the same with Dalton now?

[Spanky]

They went into Dalton's rookie year carrying Palmer's contract. What makes you think they wouldn't do the same with Dalton now?

I would hope they wouldn't do that because that's 17 million that could be spent elsewhere to improve the roster.

[Sea Ray]

I would hope they wouldn't do that because that's 17 million that could be spent elsewhere to improve the roster.

I agree. It would be in everyone's best interests to trade him sooner rather than later

[membengal]

They’ve literally already confirmed they are looking for a trade for him.

[Sea Ray]

They’ve literally already confirmed they are looking for a trade for him.

Of course. The issue is will they agree to a trade now or hold out for a better deal later?

[Spanky]

They’ve literally already confirmed they are looking for a trade for him.

Yes, but will they have a firm asking price and stick to it? or will they take what they can get?

[texasdave]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28739375/more-playoff-teams-expected-new-nfl-cba-sources-say

7 playoff teams in each conference. 17 regular season games, just 3 preseason, possibly.


Under the current CBA proposal that NFL owners are pushing for, the playoff field would be expanded to seven teams from each conference, while the regular season would be increased to 17 games per team and the preseason shortened to three games per team, sources said.
As part of the proposed playoff format, only one team from each conference would receive a first-round bye as opposed to the two that currently do, league sources said. That would mean a revised postseason schedule that includes six games on wild-card weekend, with three on Saturday and three on Sunday.

[Redhook]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28739375/more-playoff-teams-expected-new-nfl-cba-sources-say

7 playoff teams in each conference. 17 regular season games, just 3 preseason, possibly.

If I recall correctly from reading about this previously, they were also discussing adding a second bye week per team. I hope that’s the case. With that extra bye and 17th game, this would push the Super Bowl back 2 weeks. I’d be all for that since February is the most boring sports month of the year. By a landslide.

[membengal]

Yes, but will they have a firm asking price and stick to it? or will they take what they can get?

For me, I hope they can take what they can get - which is likely a 4th.

Also, John Ross is indeed out in Cali at the Jordan Palmer camp. So that's kinda interesting.

[membengal]

Cincinnati Bengals
@Bengals
· Feb 5
A man of MANY talents.

@Carlos_Dunlap finished with the highest single season grade of his career according to @PFF.

[membengal]

BENGALS TALK
@BengalsTalk
·
51m
Jordan Palmer posted a photo to his Instagram last week of Joe Burrow throwing to TE Harrison Bryant (Florida Atlantic). I wouldn’t mind having that combination continue with the #Bengals in Cincinnati next season.

[Spanky]

For me, I hope they can take what they can get - which is likely a 4th.

Also, John Ross is indeed out in Cali at the Jordan Palmer camp. So that's kinda interesting.

There was a video on Jordan Palmer's IG story of Ross running a route and Burrow throwing to him. good to see them start working together already.

[KoryMac5]

https://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/31998/how-the-bengals-can-set-up-joe-burrow-up-for-success-as-a-rookie

Agreed spend $$$ in the trenches...resign Green...upgrade amenities...this should be doable and all the beat writers have said it.

[Bob Sheed]

Agreed spend $$$ in the trenches...resign Green...upgrade amenities...this should be doable and all the beat writers have said it.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ow59c0pwTPruU/giphy.gif

[Chip R]

If the Bengals do end up drafting Burrow, they really need to market southern and eastern Ohio to get those people from Burrow's neck of the woods following the Bengals. They might be able to steal some of those fans away from the Steelers and possibly the Browns.

[membengal]

If the Bengals do end up drafting Burrow, they really need to market southern and eastern Ohio to get those people from Burrow's neck of the woods following the Bengals. They might be able to steal some of those fans away from the Steelers and possibly the Browns.

That article from Hobson sure made it clear that particular opportunity would be wide open for the team, that's for sure.

[membengal]

Blake Jewell
@bjewell43_
·
18m
Bengals 2020 highest cap numbers:

1. Andy Dalton $17.7M
2. Geno Atkins $14.2M
3. Dre Kirkpatrick $11M
4. Carlos Dunlap $10.9M
5. William Jackson $9.9M
6. Cordy Glenn $9.5M
7. Tyler Boyd $8M
8. CJ Uzomah $5.8M
9. Trey Hopkins $5.5M
10. John Ross $5.4M

Cut/trade Dalton and Glenn frees up $27 million. I think Dre could be on the cut/trade block too.

[membengal]

Hobs w/ a notes article with some actual Ross quotes from being out at the throwing camp:


Ross has had one throwing session with Burrow, the LSU quarterback who led the Tigers to the national title during a Heisman Trophy season, has heard the buzz about the Bengals taking him.

"That definitely will be," said Ross of how intriguing that pick could be. "He looked like a national champion … I think everybody knows how talented he is. He knows how talented he is. I like the way he carried himself. He looked just as good as he did all season."

https://www.bengals.com/news/big-willie-has-his-say-john-ross-burrows-into-workouts

[KoryMac5]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Ow59c0pwTPruU/giphy.gif

I do admit I get a chuckle from a well placed GIF...

[KoryMac5]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098476/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-10?sp-cl-mc-af-pj=&source=pepperjam&publisherId=96525&clickId=3006143799

Top 50 list...Bengals need to hit on 3 of these guys...

[Ohayou]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098476/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-10?sp-cl-mc-af-pj=&source=pepperjam&publisherId=96525&clickId=3006143799

Top 50 list...Bengals need to hit on 3 of these guys...

Jefferson at 17 is surprising.

[membengal]

Follow the linky:

https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1230613598835220482?s=21

[Bob Sheed]

Follow the linky:

https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1230613598835220482?s=21

Steelers fans have to be concerned, that's for sure.

Good. Gotta love that.

Can you imagine if the roles were reversed and the Steelers were about to draft Burrow? That's how they feel. Nice.

Beyond worried Steelers fans, I think Lance is missing the mark a bit though. Can't count Kenny and you can't count Boomer, because those two were under Paul Brown's watch, not Mike Brown. And make no mistake, he is who everyone is warning Joe Burrow about. Players and coaches move around all the time. Seinfeld was right, we really are just rooting for laundry when it comes down to it. But ownership remains.

So we have Dalton and Palmer to work with here. We know how Palmer feels. But what about Dalton? He's a good guy, I can't see him bashing the Bengals front office, publicly anyway.

But how does Dalton really feel about it?

As usual, the answer is in his actions, not words. Obviously a team like the Patriots if they don't resign Brady would be Dalton's first choice. But would Dalton be willing to go to a team like Chicago, where he may start out as backup but could possibly challenge for the starting job? I believe he would. Would Dalton be willing to go to a team with a young QB, in a backup role? He'd be less hyped about that, but I think he'd be on board.

My opinion is, there's only one team Dalton doesn't want to play for. It's the one that benched him on his birthday. And it's for the same reasons Palmer has. Well, same reason I mean. Neither career was ruined, that's for sure. Neither would say they reached their full potential either. That's debatable, but I don't think it's debatable that they feel that way, and why they feel that way, if they were both being honest.

[KoryMac5]

Steelers fans have to be concerned, that's for sure.

Good. Gotta love that.

Can you imagine if the roles were reversed and the Steelers were about to draft Burrow? That's how they feel. Nice.

Beyond worried Steelers fans, I think Lance is missing the mark a bit though. Can't count Kenny and you can't count Boomer, because those two were under Paul Brown's watch, not Mike Brown. And make no mistake, he is who everyone is warning Joe Burrow about. Players and coaches move around all the time. Seinfeld was right, we really are just rooting for laundry when it comes down to it. But ownership remains.

So we have Dalton and Palmer to work with here. We know how Palmer feels. But what about Dalton? He's a good guy, I can't see him bashing the Bengals front office, publicly anyway.

But how does Dalton really feel about it?

As usual, the answer is in his actions, not words. Obviously a team like the Patriots if they don't resign Brady would be Dalton's first choice. But would Dalton be willing to go to a team like Chicago, where he may start out as backup but could possibly challenge for the starting job? I believe he would. Would Dalton be willing to go to a team with a young QB, in a backup role? He'd be less hyped about that, but I think he'd be on board.

My opinion is, there's only one team Dalton doesn't want to play for. It's the one that benched him on his birthday. And it's for the same reasons Palmer has. Well, same reason I mean. Neither career was ruined, that's for sure. Neither would say they reached their full potential either. That's debatable, but I don't think it's debatable that they feel that way, and why they feel that way, if they were both being honest.

Not sure where you get this stuff from...

Dalton has 0 quotes out there saying he does not want to play for the Bengals again...

What we do have is QB and agent who see the writing on the wall in regards to the Bengals taking a Quarterback with their first round pick.

We also have a team that is trying to facilitate a trade to one of Dalton's preferred destinations.

So no you will not hear Andy Dalton speak any ill towards the organization.

Not sure why we continue to get bogged down with these conversations, could be due to the other thread being choked to death by the usual "everything sucks" with nothing new ever being discussed besides how bad things suck.

[membengal]

Follow the linky:

https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1230613598835220482?s=21

Not sure what that first response was - this link is to a another unreal stat regarding Burrow. Ah, the comments under the tweet - I don’t usually read those.

[Sea Ray]

Not sure what that first response was - this link is to a another unreal stat regarding Burrow.

What's with the Steeler fan saying "the Bengals will ruin his career"? Hell, it's the Steelers who ruin careers. Kimo did more to ruin CP's career than anything the Bengals did

[membengal]

#Bengals WR Tyler Boyd is one of just 11 NFL WRs to have 1000+ receiving yards in each of the last two seasons (2018+2019). Boyd turned 25 in November and is very likely to have Joe Burrow throwing him passes in 2020 as the top target

[membengal]

I like this:

https://twitter.com/joegoodberry/status/1230693621202026496?s=21

[KoryMac5]

https://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2020/2/19/21143026/2020-lsu-football-nfl-draft-joe-burrow-cincinnati-bengals

Nice article for an LSU fan site

[membengal]

https://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2020/2/19/21143026/2020-lsu-football-nfl-draft-joe-burrow-cincinnati-bengals

Nice article for an LSU fan site

Really, really good. Thanks for link to it.

[RiverRat13]

The idea that the Bengals will "ruin" Burrow is silly. We know that Mike Brown loves skill players, so Burrow will be surrounded by weapons. The Bengals have been hit or miss at offensive line (with the past couple of years being a disaster) the past two decades, but overall I'm confident Burrow will put in a good offensive situation as far as a supporting cast for the majority of his career in Cincinnati.

Burrow will also get paid if he produces. Carson was given the largest contract in the NFL. Dalton signed a team-friendly deal as far as being able to get out of it, but he also signed it before his big 2015 season and has made $80mm from it thus far. The Bengals are cheap in other areas, but they take care of their own (probably too well and too often at times).

The only question is will the Bengals ever do enough to get over the hump to be a true Super Bowl contender. The current organizational structure has shown they can be AFC North contenders, but it's a fair question to pose as far as doing what it takes to win it all. So while on one hand I understand a certain level of skepticism, on the other I think it is asinine to say the Bengals will ruin Burrow or for people to think he should pull an Eli.

[bucksfan2]

The idea that the Bengals will "ruin" Burrow is silly. We know that Mike Brown loves skill players, so Burrow will be surrounded by weapons. The Bengals have been hit or miss at offensive line (with the past couple of years being a disaster) the past two decades, but overall I'm confident Burrow will put in a good offensive situation as far as a supporting cast for the majority of his career in Cincinnati.

Burrow will also get paid if he produces. Carson was given the largest contract in the NFL. Dalton signed a team-friendly deal as far as being able to get out of it, but he also signed it before his big 2015 season and has made $80mm from it thus far. The Bengals are cheap in other areas, but they take care of their own (probably too well and too often at times).

The only question is will the Bengals ever do enough to get over the hump to be a true Super Bowl contender. The current organizational structure has shown they can be AFC North contenders, but it's a fair question to pose as far as doing what it takes to win it all. So while on one hand I understand a certain level of skepticism, on the other I think it is asinine to say the Bengals will ruin Burrow or for people to think he should pull an Eli.

I have always thought that the Bengals rise was a little unfortunate in that they ran up against both Manning and Brady during their primes. Would things have been different had they not had two of the top 5 QB's of all time playing in the AFC? I do think Marv was somewhat snakebitten playing against the Steelers, but I do think had Manning and/or Brady not been in the AFC at that time, the Bengals may have had more success.

I think Mahomes is going to be a HOF caliber QB, but I don't believe he will go down in the discussion as the greatest. I also think that the Pats dynasty is coming to an end, and also think that the Steelers are going to be in flux with Big Ben nearing the end of his career. I do think a wild card is Jackson, will he continue to dominate, or will he go the way of all the previous running QB's?

You have a lot of the old guard QB's retiring or entering the end of their careers. Guys like Rivers, Brady, Brees, Roethlesburger, Luck, and P. Manning are guys who are either retired, or are winding down their career. As good as guys like Mahomes, Jackson, Watson, etc. can be, they don't quite strike the fear in me that the aforementioned ones do.

[Bob Sheed]

I have always thought that the Bengals rise was a little unfortunate in that they ran up against both Manning and Brady during their primes. .

Didn't seem to slow down the Steelers much. :dunno:

[bucksfan2]

Didn't seem to slow down the Steelers much. :dunno:

Something about having a HOF QB in his prime makes it easier to compete.

[Bob Sheed]

Something about having a HOF QB in his prime makes it easier to compete.

I agree.

Palmer looked pretty HOF caliber to me, before his knee got shredded. Pure speculation here but I've always believed if that injury never happened, it's the Bengals going to the Super Bowl, not the Steelers. And who knows how that might have changed each team's fortunes as a result.

But I also believe, if the Bengals had somehow drafted Rothlesburger and the Steelers drafted Palmer, that Palmer would now be the HOF QB, and Rothlesburger would already be out of the league, probably due to injury.

Point being, some teams always seem to find a way.

Other teams always seem to find a way to make excuses.

[Boss-Hog]

Also, it's not as if Brady and Manning kept knocking the Bengals out of the playoffs. The Bengals never played either of them in the playoffs (usually because their teams had byes) and only periodically in the regular season.

[bucksfan2]

I agree.

Palmer looked pretty HOF caliber to me, before his knee got shredded. Pure speculation here but I've always believed if that injury never happened, it's the Bengals going to the Super Bowl, not the Steelers. And who knows how that might have changed each team's fortunes as a result.

But I also believe, if the Bengals had somehow drafted Rothlesburger and the Steelers drafted Palmer, that Palmer would now be the HOF QB, and Rothlesburger would already be out of the league, probably due to injury.

Point being, some teams always seem to find a way.

Other teams always seem to find a way to make excuses.

Eh, I think Palmer had more arm talent that Ben, but I think Ben had that innate ability to make plays. I think Ben was tougher, and it really isn't a question. Ben could extend plays for longer, he could make plays when everything broke down. He also was far more mobile than Palmer was. I do think the Steelers organization was more successful and better than the Bengals, but the Bengals put together a pretty good decade run.

I think the tandem that made each other was Belichick and Brady. I don't know if Brady would have found the level of success he did had he not been with the Pats. It a game that has become more pass friendly, I think elite QB's would be successful wherever they go.

[bucksfan2]

Also, it's not as if Brady and Manning kept knocking the Bengals out of the playoffs. The Bengals never played either of them in the playoffs (usually because their teams had byes) and only periodically in the regular season.

That kind of adds to things. No Manning and Brady never knocked the Bengals out of the playoffs, would the playoff seeding have changed had those two guys been elsewhere? Would the playoffs have changed had they not dominated the AFC East and South with no challenge?

[KoryMac5]

The other issue Palmer had was not getting surgery on his elbow...which took a few ticks off his ability to get the ball into tight windows. He did throw 20 picks his last year with the Bengals...


Today in the Athletic Dehner thought the Bengals would most likely end up with 10 picks in the draft and they would most likely be involved in the 2nd wave of FA (think Schobert and Glasgow)...

[Boss-Hog]

That kind of adds to things. No Manning and Brady never knocked the Bengals out of the playoffs, would the playoff seeding have changed had those two guys been elsewhere? Would the playoffs have changed had they not dominated the AFC East and South with no challenge?That was probably a factor to some extent, but with the exception of 2015, that's the only year I can recall that the Bengals had a record (12-4) that'd typically earn a bye. That year, Brady and Manning's teams earned the bye over the Bengals with the Broncos's head to head overtime win over the Bengals (which was McCarron vs Osweiler) being the tiebreaker.

[KoryMac5]

Bears just cleared 17 million in cap space, could a Dalton deal be next.

[Bob Sheed]

Bears just cleared 17 million in cap space, could a Dalton deal be next.

At first I was thinking Dalton for a 4th would be cool. But if they hang onto him one more season and let him go, they get a 3rd.So now I'm not so sure.

I think if a 4th is offered, you ask Dalton if he wants to be here or not. If he does, maybe you keep him one year to mentor Burrow. If not, you take the trade?

[Boss-Hog]

Compensation picks are based on the contract that player signs with a new team and how well they play the following season, so the Bengals are far from guaranteed a 2022 third round pick if Dalton walks next year. Plus, losing him would be offset by any 2021 free agents they sign (which likely won't happen), but more importantly, they'd have to carry his $17 million salary this year before he leaves next year. Dalton is already on record as saying he wants a chance to start, so since that won't be here, you can safely assume he won't want to back up Burrow. You take what you can get via trade every day of the week.

[membengal]

Bears just cleared 17 million in cap space, could a Dalton deal be next.

Tannehill’s titans season should make this a good predicate - tannehill went for a 4th - let’s get this done and call it a day.

[Boss-Hog]

Tannehill’s titans season should make this a good predicate - tannehill went for a 4th - let’s get this done and call it a day.True, but keep in mind his contract was a lot more friendly than Dalton's. I'd be happy with a fourth, and I think that's realistic.

[Bob Sheed]

The Bears already gave their 1st round pick to the Raiders. Wonder if they would even be willing to part with their 4th as well...

Would be a pretty light draft weekend for them.

[membengal]

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/1230846182412423168


Steve Palazzolo
@PFF_Steve
Powered by our friends at
@awscloud
, a comparison of NFL Draft QB accuracy % using actual ball location (putting it right on WR's frame or in stride)

Joe Burrow and Tua leading the way over last two years on 10+ yard throws

Burrow leading the way - 56% - Tua next at 52.3%. A QB who can hit receivers in stride will be a nice change of pace from Dalton - that was NOT one of the things he did well.

[membengal]

True, but keep in mind his contract was a lot more friendly than Dalton's. I'd be happy with a fourth, and I think that's realistic.

True on contract difference, BUT, also true that Tannehill showed just how valuable getting a guy like Dalton might be to the right team. Balances out contract differences maybe...so, 4th remains my hope/baseline.

[membengal]

TDN mock from this AM from me. I traded way back in 2 and picked up an extra 4th. I made the picks in a hypothetical where they signed two FA linebackers. Throckmorton can play both G and T per reports.

The results:

1. Burrow QB, LSU

2. Winifeld, Jr., S, Minn (62 overall)

3. Dantlzer, CB, Miss St (65 overall)

4a. Adams, OT, Washington (97 overall)

4b. Coe, Edge, Auburn (126 overall)

5. T. Johnson, WR, Minn (129 overall)

6. D. Duverney, WR, TX (160 overall)

7. Throckmorton, OT, Oregon (192 overall)