NBA 2019-20: Hoopingest place on earth

[Bourgeois Zee]

Or, alternatively, no one gets apoplectic about the term "white boy" so there isn't much to see here.

Some posters don't seem to grasp the idea that the term "boy" can have negative connotations in one respect and not the other.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Giannis vs. Bam is going to be fascinating. Butler vs. Middleton too.

Agreed about 3-point accuracy, though that's attached to whose depth delivers.

Bam's going to get eaten alive, I suspect. Giannis on a mission is undeniable.

If I'm Spo, I'm not sure which way to play it:

- Do I play Bam one-on-one with Giannis, knowing he's not yet where he needs to be? At best, Bam ends up with 5 TO's, but a fouled-out and/or exhausted Giannis late is the best scenario possible.
- Do I double Giannis every possession and make Middleton and company beat me? That hasn't worked for the rest of the NBA. Who doubles? Butler? Seems like a tall order.

I'm playing with the idea of whether it'd be a good idea to let Duncan Robinson play Giannis one-on-one defensively, sic Bam on Middleton and deny everyone else.

[Bourgeois Zee]

One talking head mentioned Luka Doncic in the same breath as Larry Bird this morning.

I laughed.

Then I thought some more about the comparison.

I didn't laugh after thinking on it.

[M2]

One talking head mentioned Luka Doncic in the same breath as Larry Bird this morning.

I laughed.

Then I thought some more about the comparison.

I didn't laugh after thinking on it.

Bill Simmons is unironically calling him Luka Legend.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Bill Simmons is unironically calling him Luka Legend.

Step slow? Check.

Ridiculous vision? Check.

Makes others better? Check.

Rebounds remarkably well? Check.

Tougher than he looks? Check.

Irrational confidence? Yup.

The only thing Doncic doesn't do (yet) is shoot the ball well. Then again, Bird's second season saw him slump to less than 30% shooting from deep. (And he mostly stayed down there until 1984.)

[M2]

Kyle Lowry's ankle sprain could affect the upcoming series with the Celtics. If he's healthy, I think I like the Raptors in that series. If he's not, I think I like the Celtics.

[Rojo Rijo]

As a Magic fan I just wish they would just call the series. We have no shooting. Fournier is yesterdays trash and Ross has shot 6/22 from outside for the series. Fournier is 14/43 from the field (32.5%) for the series as of right now. He more than likely picks up his PO for next season (17 mil) so i'll have to suffer through another season of them trying to make him a focal point on offense again.

[RichRed]

Step slow? Check.

Ridiculous vision? Check.

Makes others better? Check.

Rebounds remarkably well? Check.

Tougher than he looks? Check.

Irrational confidence? Yup.

The only thing Doncic doesn't do (yet) is shoot the ball well. Then again, Bird's second season saw him slump to less than 30% shooting from deep. (And he mostly stayed down there until 1984.)

Luka's combination of skill, confidence, youth, and competitive fire is almost unfathomable. Man, is he fun to watch.

[M2]

As a Magic fan I just wish they would just call the series. We have no shooting. Fournier is yesterdays trash and Ross has shot 6/22 from outside for the series. Fournier is 14/43 from the field (32.5%) for the series as of right now. He more than likely picks up his PO for next season (17 mil) so i'll have to suffer through another season of them trying to make him a focal point on offense again.

That's so weird, because Fournier had been having his best season before the bubble. Had he kept that up he'd be opting out and getting paid. Though I still think the most glaring problem with the Magic is they need someone to run that team and it's never going to be Fultz.

[Rojo Rijo]

That's so weird, because Fournier had been having his best season before the bubble. Had he kept that up he'd be opting out and getting paid. Though I still think the most glaring problem with the Magic is they need someone to run that team and it's never going to be Fultz.

If Fultz doesn't significantly improve next season (his shooting) then they should not meet his 15M QO.

[M2]

If Fultz doesn't significantly improve next season (his shooting) then they should not meet his 15M QO.

I'd like to see them be more proactive. They were 25th in pace and 27th in eFG% this season.

They've got $122M on the books for next season. They're paying Vuce, Gordon and Fournier to be good now. They're paying Ross and Aminu to be quality bench/rotation players. Seems to me they've got two choices: either figure out how to be legit good next season (as in 50ish wins and advancing in the playoffs) or blow that thing up. Seeing that they were in the wilderness for so long before this, I figure they ought to try to make it work. Move a bigger guy - Gordon or Vuce - and add a full-service PG and a wing who can shoot.

[texasdave]

Steel gets his wish. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29732808/sources-philadelphia-76ers-fire-coach-brett-brown-7-seasons

[M2]

Hey, Brett Brown just got canned. Can't claim all of it was his fault, but a lot of it was his fault.

texasdave beat me to it. I suspect every Sixers fan just got their wish.

[BillDoran]

I'd like to see them be more proactive. They were 25th in pace and 27th in eFG% this season.

They've got $122M on the books for next season. They're paying Vuce, Gordon and Fournier to be good now. They're paying Ross and Aminu to be quality bench/rotation players. Seems to me they've got two choices: either figure out how to be legit good next season (as in 50ish wins and advancing in the playoffs) or blow that thing up. Seeing that they were in the wilderness for so long before this, I figure they ought to try to make it work. Move a bigger guy - Gordon or Vuce - and add a full-service PG and a wing who can shoot.

They've got wwaayy too much money wrapped up in mediocre players. Blow it up, and I'm not sure anybody's off limits. I do like Clifford though.

[adkindo]

Or, alternatively, no one gets apoplectic about the term "white boy" so there isn't much to see here.

Or you do not routinely bend yourself into a pretzel to ensure everything fits neatly into your preferred reality....just saying maybe that could be it...;)

[M2]

Or you do not routinely bend yourself into a pretzel to ensure everything fits neatly into your preferred reality....just saying maybe that could be it...;)

Seemingly you do.

[goreds2]

Hey, Brett Brown just got canned. Can't claim all of it was his fault, but a lot of it was his fault.

texasdave beat me to it. I suspect every Sixers fan just got their wish.

Not sure. Losing Ben Simmons really obviously hurt our chances regardless of who was coaching. Maybe a change in coaching will help. A big thanks to Brett Brown for rebuilding this team.

[adkindo]

As a Magic fan I just wish they would just call the series. We have no shooting. Fournier is yesterdays trash and Ross has shot 6/22 from outside for the series. Fournier is 14/43 from the field (32.5%) for the series as of right now. He more than likely picks up his PO for next season (17 mil) so i'll have to suffer through another season of them trying to make him a focal point on offense again.

oh, he is picking it up....I agree, they need to get past him as he is not part of the next contending Magic team. They may need to throw away part of their rebuild, and do another mini rebuild. A lot of better than average pieces that do not really elevate each other. If they are willing to take a step back for one year, this could be a good summer to off load some pieces and take back expirings and picks. Just have to decide which few pieces that they think may be foundational. I would start with Isaac, and I still like Fultz's future....probably be on the phone to see what I could get for Gordon, Vuc, Fournier, etc.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'd like to see them be more proactive. They were 25th in pace and 27th in eFG% this season.

They've got $122M on the books for next season. They're paying Vuce, Gordon and Fournier to be good now. They're paying Ross and Aminu to be quality bench/rotation players. Seems to me they've got two choices: either figure out how to be legit good next season (as in 50ish wins and advancing in the playoffs) or blow that thing up. Seeing that they were in the wilderness for so long before this, I figure they ought to try to make it work. Move a bigger guy - Gordon or Vuce - and add a full-service PG and a wing who can shoot.

Gordon and Vucevic to OKC for Shroder and Steven Adams.

Who says no?

(The money works, fwiw.)

How about Ricky Rubio for Gordon, straight up?

[adkindo]

Seemingly you do.

come on M2.....I know your game....you get away with it because you know one of your lightweights will support your view because of shared motivation. Honestly, a little jealous....I need to recruit a "crew" to always back my flawed perceptions up. (You know it's not personal....just looking for buttons.)

[adkindo]

Gordon and Vucevic to OKC for Shroder and Steven Adams.

Who says no?

(The money works, fwiw.)

I think OKC may say no....I assume they want a cleaner restart when those contract expire?

[adkindo]

Some posters don't seem to grasp the idea that the term "boy" can have negative connotations in one respect and not the other.

I just noticed your post which is seemingly agreeing with M2....I assure you that I was not referring to you or anyone when I was joking with M2 about lightweights....had not even read all the posts. If I saw your post, I would not even have taken that route in kidding with him.

[M2]

come on M2.....I know your game....you get away with it because you know one of your lightweights will support your view because of shared motivation. Honestly, a little jealous....I need to recruit a "crew" to always back my flawed perceptions up. (You know it's not personal....just looking for buttons.)

My game is I don't share your desire to find a fainting couch.

[M2]

Way to go Thunder buddies. Second game in a row where Houston had them on the ropes and couldn't finish them.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Way to go Thunder buddies. Second game in a row where Houston had them on the ropes and couldn't finish them.

OKC's plan is to go just as small (with the exception of Adams) as Houston. SGA is playing Harden straight up most of the game with no help. Harden puts up big numbers, but others are covered. What's interesting is how good Jeff Green's been. Gallinari has no hope, nor does Adams. (Or Noel, for that matter.)

SGA hasn't been great shooting the ball, but his 18/12/6 (1 TO) night was huge. That corner three to go up late in the 4th quarter was monstrous.

[Revering4Blue]

Hey, Brett Brown just got canned. Can't claim all of it was his fault, but a lot of it was his fault.

texasdave beat me to it. I suspect every Sixers fan just got their wish.

Nah, not quite.

While it's a start, I can tell you with virtual certainty that the wish for Sixers fans involves totally cleaning house: Front office personnel and HC. And hiring a POBO, who can evaluate the entire operation and select his own HC, with very minimal ownership/ownership minion interference. But that doesn't appear to be happening.

[M2]

Nah, not quite.

While it's a start, I can tell you with virtual certainty that the wish for Sixers fans involves totally cleaning house: Front office personnel and HC. And hiring a POBO, who can evaluate the entire operation and select his own HC, with very minimal ownership/ownership minion interference. But that doesn't appear to be happening.

Oh, for sure, they'll want more. Maximum carnage appeals to the Philadelphian sports fan mind. I think that's what they liked about the process - the more it hurt, the better the payoff would be, right? Yet I can't imagine too many Sixers fans thought Brown should ever coach another game for their team.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Miami sweeps Indiana.

Pacers are better than this showing. Bad luck with injuries played a big part.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Indiana's off-season.

[M2]

Gordon and Vucevic to OKC for Shroder and Steven Adams.

Who says no?

(The money works, fwiw.)

How about Ricky Rubio for Gordon, straight up?

I am not a Rubio fan. So I'd pass on that.

Schroder is an interesting target. He'd definitely pick up the pace. I'd kind of like to keep Gordon if he was coming in.

[dubc47834]

Yeah. They had a get together to square things away, seemed friendly enough. But Harrell is a nobody in this series. He had 2 points, 1 reb and 1 assist today. We'll never know for sure, but maybe he made Luka mad enough to change the outcome of this series. Or maybe Luka was never bothered, never even thought about it and is just that good.

Yes...if I'm Luka when that was said, I reply I'll see you in the 4th QTR...oh yeah...ON THE BENCH CHUMP!!!

[M2]

Miami sweeps Indiana.

Pacers are better than this showing. Bad luck with injuries played a big part.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Indiana's off-season.

Big question is should Dipo stay or should he go?

[dubc47834]

Miami sweeps Indiana.

Pacers are better than this showing. Bad luck with injuries played a big part.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in Indiana's off-season.

I think if they werent in this bubble, this series goes ti 6 maybe 7 games.

[Betterread]

Indiana has lost in the first round of the playoffs five years in a row, three of those without winning a game. They have no young guys who might make a jump in quality so I guess they aspire to be like Portland of the east.

They never rebuild though, do they? I think the last time they were league dregs were the Chuck Person years - the late 80s

[Revering4Blue]

Indiana has lost in the first round of the playoffs five years in a row, three of those without winning a game. They have no young guys who might make a jump in quality so I guess they aspire to be like Portland of the east.

They never rebuild though, do they? I think they last time they were league dregs were the Chuck Person years - the late 80s

There's been no need to tank. Within the past 25 years or so, the franchise has assembled three distinct championship-level cores (One NBA Final appearance and several Conference Finals appearances) with the benefit of only one Top 5 selection: Rik Smits in '88. It's not as if they're Philly circa draft day '13 - Only one true coveted asset (J'Rue Holiday) and owing several first round picks due to ill-fated deals that failed to move the needle.

As for the first round exits of the past five years, when did they realistically have a chance to win any of their series?

2016 - I'll give you that. That's the series against Toronto in which the Pacers had a sizable lead towards the end of the third quarter on the road, but Vogel inexplicably rested several starters and reserves that were lighting it up, instead of going for the jugular and it came back to bite the Pacers and the soon-to-be fired Vogel.

2017 - Not a very well constructed team during PG 13's last year in Indy. Beating the Cavs, who still had Irving at the time? Wasn't happening.

2018, the first season with Sabonis and Dipo, they lost in Cleveland in game 7. That's the game and series in which the Pacers' brains collectively locked, as for some reason, they stopped attacking the rim, acting as though the Cavs had prime Olajuwon patrolling the middle instead of Thompson and Nance Jr. And nobody else in the East ousted the Cavs in LeBron's swansong.

While you can argue that they should have at least won a game in this playoff series, they weren't advancing in this season or last. They were too banged up.

As for young guys possibly making a jump? Among others. Aaron Holiday and Goga Bitadze. And over the past three seasons or so, Kevin Pritchard has demonstrated an ability to sign/acquire many contributors at non-prohibitive cost. No reason that trend can't continue. In fact, his only misstep (a doozy, nonetheless): Drafting T.J Leaf in '17 instead of John Collins, Anunoby and others.

[M2]

Indiana has lost in the first round of the playoffs five years in a row, three of those without winning a game. They have no young guys who might make a jump in quality so I guess they aspire to be like Portland of the east.

They never rebuild though, do they? I think the last time they were league dregs were the Chuck Person years - the late 80s

They've had a lot of turnover though. Myles Turner is the only guy left from the start of this run. Give them Sabonis and they've got some upside.

[Betterread]

They were seeded higher than Miami this year and I picked them to win. And Dipo is such a good guy and Butler is such a ******bag.
Indy will reload, but to make a jump they have to diversify and improve their offense. The Brogdon/sabonis P and R is impressive, but they need another isolation playmaker as a different dimension.
Where do they draft? They might get lucky this year and find a good playmaker as I think it’s a weird draft year and there could be quality talent through the entire first round.

[Revering4Blue]

They were seeded higher than Miami this year and I picked them to win. And Dipo is such a good guy and Butler is such a ******bag.
Indy will reload, but to make a jump they have to diversify and improve their offense. The Brogdon/sabonis P and R is impressive, but they need another isolation playmaker as a different dimension.
Where do they draft? They might get lucky this year and find a good playmaker as I think it’s a weird draft year and there could be quality talent through the entire first round.Seeding means virtually nothing this season for obvious reasons. Nevertheless, the Pacers played exponentially better against an intact Philly team, as well as against the Lakers in this bubble in contrast to the turd they laid against the Heat.

Agree with your second paragraph. They cannot solely depend upon Oladipo to fill that role.

Not that it's a big deal, but they have no first rounder this season thanks to the Brogdan sign and trade

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[M2]

Where do they draft? They might get lucky this year and find a good playmaker as I think it’s a weird draft year and there could be quality talent through the entire first round.

No picks until #54, but I expect they'll be active in the trade market.

[M2]

The first half of the Lakers-Blazers was like

https://media.tenor.com/images/39cba2609c9d812b3ea15aea061e66f6/tenor.gif

[M2]

I know we have some here who dislike Jimmy Butler, and I get why, but it's getting impossible to insist he's not a money ballplayer.

He was dragging the post-Rose/Noah/Deng Bulls into the playoffs and they dropped by 14 wins after he left.

Then he ended a 13-year playoff drought in Minnesota. When he left the team dropped by 11 wins.

Then he goes to Philadelphia and gets them within a rim bounce of beating the eventual NBA champions in the 2nd round of the playoffs. After he left, they dropped a #6 seed and got swept in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Then he goes to Miami, which has gone from lottery team to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs.

As mercenary as he's been in recent years, he's also made his team better everywhere he's played.

[Stray]

Herro's been impressive so far. Wasn't sure how Spo's rotations would work in the playoffs, but he has played Herro in 46 out of the 48 4th quarter mins so far. That's a lot of confidence in your rookie.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The first half of the Lakers-Blazers was like

https://media.tenor.com/images/39cba2609c9d812b3ea15aea061e66f6/tenor.gif

I think you got the answer you were looking for when you showed how incredibly unlucky the Lakers were in the Game One.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Big question is should Dipo stay or should he go?

I'd look to deal one of Turner and, if they get a good haul, I'd be fine with dealing Oladipo as well.

TJ Warren can take over the scoring load. Jeremy Lamb is underrated. (His was a huge injury no one is talking about.) Brogdon proved he was for real. Sabonis took a step forward. Even the Holidays look like real players.

I wonder if Washington could be tempted to deal Beal (and change) for Dipo and Turner?

[BillDoran]

The first half of the Lakers-Blazers was like

https://media.tenor.com/images/39cba2609c9d812b3ea15aea061e66f6/tenor.gif

Brutal. That was varsity versus JV-level domination. When the non-AD and Bron Lakers are hitting shots, there's not much to be done.

I'm most impressed with the Lakers defense. They get buy-in across the board, and there's some dudes that can really play D. Between Javale, Dwight and AD, they protect the rim as well as any team in the league.

The most interesting developments after the game one loss was Bron going into the post, and AD feasting on 17-footers. Gary Trent has no chance whatsoever in the paint. He can hang with James on the perimeter, but he looks like his little brother in the post.Stotts has no idea what to do with AD. So they put Nurk or Whiteside on him, and they just let him knock down jumpers all night. In Stotts's defense, I don't know that there's much you can do with an engaged Davis.

I'm ready to move on from Melo. He's hit some shots on a depleted team, and they all play nice when a microphone is in front of them, but I can't stand his ball-stopping ways. Even when he's hitting, I think he's a bad fit for that offense. There are plenty of guys n the rotation that want to hang onto the ball, Melo's 15-second backdown in the mid-post really stifles flow and robs the offense of energy.

No idea how the Blazers improve. That roster is pretty locked-in (and Olshey has shown no interest in making real changes). Dame and McCollum are incredible offensively but porous on defense. Nurk is a really nice center (on a great contract), but unless he can find another gear, he's merely a good NBA big; not a guy that can really punish middling guys. Trent's got some real promise, but he's forced into guarding big guys, when he's at his best as a 2 or undersized 3. Collins helps, but he's not really a move-the-needle guy. He young, so there's hope. Hood can score the basketball, and that's about it. Coming off a pretty serious injury too, so not entirely sure what you'll get. Ariza can help in a playoff series but not sure you'll get too much from him over the course of a season.

They have some money to spend (getting out from Whiteside's $27 million deal), but they have lots of holes. They need a backup PG (unless Simons can take a step forward), lots of help on the wing, preferably defensively oriented, and a backup big.

Assuming good health, they're probably a middle-of-the pack playoff team next year. Not exactly where you want to be when your franchise stars are in their prime.

[M2]

Brutal. That was varsity versus JV-level domination. When the non-AD and Bron Lakers are hitting shots, there's not much to be done.

I'm most impressed with the Lakers defense. They get buy-in across the board, and there's some dudes that can really play D. Between Javale, Dwight and AD, they protect the rim as well as any team in the league.

The most interesting developments after the game one loss was Bron going into the post, and AD feasting on 17-footers. Gary Trent has no chance whatsoever in the paint. He can hang with James on the perimeter, but he looks like his little brother in the post.Stotts has no idea what to do with AD. So they put Nurk or Whiteside on him, and they just let him knock down jumpers all night. In Stotts's defense, I don't know that there's much you can do with an engaged Davis.

I'm ready to move on from Melo. He's hit some shots on a depleted team, and they all play nice when a microphone is in front of them, but I can't stand his ball-stopping ways. Even when he's hitting, I think he's a bad fit for that offense. There are plenty of guys n the rotation that want to hang onto the ball, Melo's 15-second backdown in the mid-post really stifles flow and robs the offense of energy.

No idea how the Blazers improve. That roster is pretty locked-in (and Olshey has shown no interest in making real changes). Dame and McCollum are incredible offensively but porous on defense. Nurk is a really nice center (on a great contract), but unless he can find another gear, he's merely a good NBA big; not a guy that can really punish middling guys. Trent's got some real promise, but he's forced into guarding big guys, when he's at his best as a 2 or undersized 3. Collins helps, but he's not really a move-the-needle guy. He young, so there's hope. Hood can score the basketball, and that's about it. Coming off a pretty serious injury too, so not entirely sure what you'll get. Ariza can help in a playoff series but not sure you'll get too much from him over the course of a season.

They have some money to spend (getting out from Whiteside's $27 million deal), but they have lots of holes. They need a backup PG (unless Simons can take a step forward), lots of help on the wing, preferably defensively oriented, and a backup big.

Assuming good health, they're probably a middle-of-the pack playoff team next year. Not exactly where you want to be when your franchise stars are in their prime.

I was waiting for one more game to post this, but it seems largely ceremonial, so - during this seven-year run, the number of wins the Blazers have gotten in the series where they've been eliminated are 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0 and (probably) 1. That's not a contender. That's a team getting participation trophies. If "made the playoffs" is your bar, then they're doing fine. Betterread was making this same point about Indiana, though I think that squad has more upside with Sabonis in the mix.

Portland gets punished on the wings. Aminu and Harkless are no great shakes, but it's been a dive off the cliff without them. Until Ariza showed up, they had no one out there (as you noted, Melo's just been empty calories). They have to count on Dame and CJ to win the guard matchup by an absurd amount to compensate for how much they're going to lose on the wings on a given night. And it's not new. The need for better wing play has been what's kept from taking the step for years now. And I'm not sure there' a lot of help coming on this roster. Collins isn't a wing. He's a big who seems to have a so-so ceiling. Nassir Little would do well to be a dependable 2nd unit guy in the coming years. Rodney Hood is going to be coming back from an Achilles tear. Mario Hezonja and Wenyen Gabriel aren't serious options for a good team. Anfernee Simons has a loooooong way to go to be good.

Trent is the one guy who seems like he could handle a bigger role, but that role is probably CJ's job. I think they owe it to Dame and their fans to shake it up. They needed all of his hero ball this season just to squeak into the playoffs with a losing record. Golden State is back next year while Memphis, Phoenix and Nola should continue improving. Time is cruel. Portland needs to make something happen.

[BillDoran]

C.J. McCollum for Aaron Gordon and Terrence Ross.

Who says no (other than Neil Olshey, because, damnit, he's sticking to his guns)?


That'd give you a starting lineup of Lillard, Trent, Ross/Hood, Gordon and Nurkic. Collins, backup PG, Ariza, backup big. Still not contending for a championship, but at least it's more balanced. Shooting would probably be light, but at least they could play passable, possibly even good, defense.

The more I think about it, the less I like it. I do like Orlando as a trading partner. They have lots of secondary pieces. If you could get two (or one Jonathan Isaac) for McCollum, I'd think you could improve the Blazers a bit.

[BillDoran]

I was waiting for one more game to post this, but it seems largely ceremonial, so - during this seven-year run, the number of wins the Blazers have gotten in the series where they've been eliminated are 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0 and (probably) 1. That's not a contender. That's a team getting participation trophies. If "made the playoffs" is your bar, then they're doing fine. Betterread was making this same point about Indiana, though I think that squad has more upside with Sabonis in the mix.

Portland gets punished on the wings. Aminu and Harkless are no great shakes, but it's been a dive off the cliff without them. Until Ariza showed up, they had no one out there (as you noted, Melo's just been empty calories). They have to count on Dame and CJ to win the guard matchup by an absurd amount to compensate for how much they're going to lose on the wings on a given night. And it's not new. The need for better wing play has been what's kept from taking the step for years now. And I'm not sure there' a lot of help coming on this roster. Collins isn't a wing. He's a big who seems to have a so-so ceiling. Nassir Little would do well to be a dependable 2nd unit guy in the coming years. Rodney Hood is going to be coming back from an Achilles tear. Mario Hezonja and Wenyen Gabriel aren't serious options for a good team. Anfernee Simons has a loooooong way to go to be good.

Trent is the one guy who seems like he could handle a bigger role, but that role is probably CJ's job. I think they owe it to Dame and their fans to shake it up. They needed all of his hero ball this season just to squeak into the playoffs with a losing record. Golden State is back next year while Memphis, Phoenix and Nola should continue improving. Time is cruel. Portland needs to make something happen.

Really good article from the Warriors beat writer with The Athletic on why Dame Lillard isn't Steph Curry.

https://theathletic.com/2020741/2020/08/25/the-key-difference-between-damian-lillard-and-steph-curry-against-elite-defenses/?source=user_shared_article

The gist being Curry can play on and off the ball, whereas Dame is ball-dominant and not particularly adept at running off screens. You can force the ball out of Dame's hands, and he's generally content after having drawn two defenders. Curry causes havoc. I think this is a pretty insightful observation. If you rush Dame, he's hoping to get the ball to McCollum or Nurk, both good players but hardly Hall of Famers. McCollum can make you pay, but Nurk is a pretty iffy proposition when trying to playmake.

Anways, it's the stagnancy of the offense, both in its ball-dominant nature and lack of evolution over time that's got me wondering if Terry Stotts is the answer. Love him, think he's an above average coach, but given how locked-in things are, there are only a few options to shake things up. He's done a good job with the talent he's had, but I don't think he's going to push them to a new level. And kinda like the Reds sitting on their hands during the tail-end of Votto's prime, I think Olshey should set a new foundation this summer around Lillard and Nurk (and Trent to a lesser extent).

[M2]

Interesting idea about the Sixers swapping Ben Simmons to the Nuggets for Jamal Murray or Michael Porter Jr. - https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/8/25/21400158/denver-nuggets-nikola-jokic-defense-ben-simmons.

[Rojo Rijo]

Interesting idea about the Sixers swapping Ben Simmons to the Nuggets for Jamal Murray or Michael Porter Jr. - https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/8/25/21400158/denver-nuggets-nikola-jokic-defense-ben-simmons.

If I'm Philly and Denver offers Murray for Simmons I'm all over that. I'd definitely try to get more but ultimately I'd pull that trigger.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If I'm Philly and Denver offers Murray for Simmons I'm all over that. I'd definitely try to get more but ultimately I'd pull that trigger.

That'd help both teams, IMO. Elton Brand should ask for something in addition to Murray (Bol Bol?) though.

[Bourgeois Zee]

C.J. McCollum for Aaron Gordon and Terrence Ross.

Fournier (likely to opt in) and Gordon would definitely help the Blazer wing situation, if only for one season. (Fournier's a FA after 2021.) McCollum for those two would totally work, IMO, and help both squads.

[Bourgeois Zee]

CJ McCollum for Gary Harris and Will Barton.

OR

Julius Randle and RJ Barrett for McCollum.

Who says no?

[texasdave]

Denver should not trade for Simmons at all. What does he add to that team? The offense already runs through Jokic. Simmons has no outside shot. Who replaces Murray's production? Not Simmons. That's a no-go from the start.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Denver should not trade for Simmons at all. What does he add to that team? The offense already runs through Jokic. Simmons has no outside shot. Who replaces Murray's production? Not Simmons. That's a no-go from the start.

Simmons could play the PF spot and be a dominant defense-first point forward. He and Jokic could play opposite each other for the most part, then team up late in the fourth to have to front court guys who would handle the ball and initiate offense. This would allow Barton and Porter to play the wings (and shoot early and often) plus Harris and Morris at the "point".

[Stray]

Yeah I'm with Dave. Not sure Simmons makes sense with Denver. They already run offense through Jokic. Paired with a scoring PG like Murray is a good fit. I also love MPJ's future so there's no way I'd consider moving him.

[M2]

Simmons could play the PF spot and be a dominant defense-first point forward. He and Jokic could play opposite each other for the most part, then team up late in the fourth to have to front court guys who would handle the ball and initiate offense. This would allow Barton and Porter to play the wings (and shoot early and often) plus Harris and Morris at the "point".

Offensively, no one would be blocking Simmons' path the rim. He'd have free reign to play like a taller version of what Russell Westbrook is doing with the Rockets this season. If they were able to keep Murray (making MPJ and Gary Harris the core of that deal) they'd have a lineup where the ball would really jump - point guard, point forward and point center.

[Betterread]

Simmons could play the PF spot and be a dominant defense-first point forward. He and Jokic could play opposite each other for the most part, then team up late in the fourth to have to front court guys who would handle the ball and initiate offense. This would allow Barton and Porter to play the wings (and shoot early and often) plus Harris and Morris at the "point".

Michael Porter Jr is going to play a lot more minutes at PF next year. Millsap’s $30 mill contract is over after the playoffs, and MPJ will get every chance to play so the Nuggets can decide if/how much to pay him long term. MPJ is not as skilled as Simmmons but he is a far better shooter. Denver already has its two offensive facilitators in Jokic and Murray. They have done a great job building their roster.

Nuggets will see if they can upgrade their wing talent from Harris/Barton. I don’t know what happened with Harris. He used to be very good, but something has been wrong with his game since sometime last year.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Offensively, no one would be blocking Simmons' path the rim. He'd have free reign to play like a taller version of what Russell Westbrook is doing with the Rockets this season.

At 6'10", he's more Magic than Westbrook, but he'd put up some monster numbers and allow the rest of that team some wide-open opportunities.

[M2]

At 6'10", he's more Magic than Westbrook, but he'd put up some monster numbers and allow the rest of that team some wide-open opportunities.

Agreed. I was thinking Russ solely in terms of having the freedom to launch himself at the rim. I'm not sure how you'd stop him in a five-out system.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Agreed. I was thinking Russ solely in terms of having the freedom to launch himself at the rim. I'm not sure how you'd stop him in a five-out system.

You play off Simmons and refuse to give him layups. He has to be more proficient as a shooter to unlock "unguardable". Simmons hit 36.5% of his shots from 3 - 10 feet last season. And less than 20% on anything outside of that range.

Until he improves on that, you put a big on him and muscle him away from the rim.

[M2]

You play off Simmons and refuse to give him layups. He has to be more proficient as a shooter to unlock "unguardable". Simmons hit 36.5% of his shots from 3 - 10 feet last season. And less than 20% on anything outside of that range.

Until he improves on that, you put a big on him and muscle him away from the rim.

But if you sag off of him, it gives him an off-ball lane for lobs. It's similar to the problem with guarding Giannis. If you sag off of him while the ball's travelling the perimeter, he's liable to end up at the rim. That plan works when Simmons is playing with Embiid, because it clogs up the lane and Simmons isn't a threat for a kick, but if no one's posting up then it's all free range inside the arc.

[Bourgeois Zee]

But if you sag off of him, it gives him an off-ball lane for lobs.

Only if your other defenders let their man get to the hoop.

[dubc47834]

Dame is out due to a knee sprain. Series officially over!!!

[M2]

Dame is out due to a knee sprain. Series officially over!!!

That sucks. Dame deserves to go out on his shield.

[dubc47834]

That sucks. Dame deserves to go out on his shield.

Yes he does!

[Revering4Blue]

Interesting idea about the Sixers swapping Ben Simmons to the Nuggets for Jamal Murray or Michael Porter Jr. - https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/8/25/21400158/denver-nuggets-nikola-jokic-defense-ben-simmons.

As of now, count me out of the often-parroted -- but not so much here -- narrative of the only path out of this 76ers roster creation mess is to deal Embiid or Simmons bandwagon.

First, speaking only in terms of the article, Denver, whose best strategy (regardless of the outcome of this playoff series) is staying the course, IMHO, is very, very unlikely to be offering Murray in any proposed package for Simmons. Come on, now. Porter Jr. and Harris for Simmons? Nope. Harris has been injury-prone, appearing in over 66 games (while mostly topping out in the 50s) only twice in his career, topping 70 games only once. And talented as Porter Jr. is, a front line of J.E, M.P Jr and Harris isn't going to work, at least on one end of the court.

Over and above the article, in relation to my position here, Chris Broussard more or less echoed my position on a National radio show of holding onto both Embiid and Simmons, tweaking the roster the best you can (a difficult task, I'm aware, for the reasons that Steel, myself and others have already stated) and gambling that a new coach will be able to extract the maximum (or thereabouts) out of both cornerstones than Brown, who reportedly coddled both of them, especially Simmons, of whom Brown has/had been close to Ben's family for 20 years.

Mind you, Broussard was in no way, shape or form absolving the front office of blame -- in fact, he's actually been echoing the sentiments of Steel and myself about the failings of ownership -- but it's difficult to argue with his point about Brown (and I hate to keep dumping on the guy): We can talk all we want about roster construction, but has Brown, collectively (restricting this to only playoff editions of this current core) gotten the most out of rosters? The answer is no. Ultimately, it is the head coaches responsibility to 1)Ingrain into Embiid the importance of coming into camp in shape and to stop (relatively speaking) his practice of regularly futzing around on the perimeter. 2)Get through, finally, to Simmons the importance of the perimeter shot. In addition, Covington, Saric and tertiary pieces, such as McConnell and Burke are additional examples of players that have elevated their games post - Philly/Brown.

Again, further roster construction is certainly in order for the 76ers, but ultimately, the 76ers, regardless of further roster modification, will assuredly fail to take the necessary steps forward towards true NBA Champ contention without Simmons and Embiid coming close to reaching their full potential under a new coach that actually modernizes the offense. That, IMHO, is much better plan of action than panicking and dealing one of the two cornerstones away, in which you (76ers) undoubtedly will be selling low.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Man when Jamal Murray gets going...

[Stray]

I want the Nuggets and Jazz to go 7 just to keep watching Mitchell and Murray go off like this.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I want the Nuggets and Jazz to go 7 just to keep watching Mitchell and Murray go off like this.

I don’t think Murray and Jokic came off the court in the second half. Playing every other day, there is a limit to that. Murray has been great twice and ok three times. Unless he’s great on Thursday it’s over.

[texasdave]

I don’t think Murray and Jokic came off the court in the second half. Playing every other day, there is a limit to that. Murray has been great twice and ok three times. Unless he’s great on Thursday it’s over.

Murray had a 36/5/9 line in Game One. I'd call that more than just okay.

[M2]

I don’t think Murray and Jokic came off the court in the second half. Playing every other day, there is a limit to that. Murray has been great twice and ok three times. Unless he’s great on Thursday it’s over.

IMO, they need someone other than than Jokic-Murray to step up. It's a deep team that's playing shallow at the moment.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Murray had a 36/5/9 line in Game One. I'd call that more than just okay.

Yeah I thought about it after I posted and he’s had three great games and two ok games, but was too lazy to edit it and the larger point still stands.

[BuckeyeRed27]

IMO, they need someone other than than Jokic-Murray to step up. It's a deep team that's playing shallow at the moment.

Yeah Milsap is pretty useless and they need the third guy to be Porter, but the Jazz have made him a total defensive liability.

[Mutaman]

"Usually when Coach wants to talk to us after a game, somebody messed up or somebody did something," Antetokounmpo said Tuesday. "So in my head, I'm like, 'OK.' I'm looking around like, 'Who did something?' Because I know I didn't do nothing."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29740511/giannis-antetokounmpo-wins-defensive-player-year-landslide

[Stray]

Mavs got an all time game and needed a buzzer beater 3 to win g4. They need Porz to play to win this series. Clips are too much better if he's out.

[texasdave]

Giannis Antentokounmpo is awarded the NBA Defensive Player of the Year. Anthony Davis placed second in the voting, with Rudy Gobert coming in third. Rounding out the top four was Houston's James Harden.

[Stray]

Weird league now, hard to really quantify the defensive studs since those guys kinda got played out of rotations. I don't have an issue with Giannis winning it, but he's not the best defensive player in the league and I don't think it's close. But with how they play the game now it's whatever.

I'd give it to the Raptors team defensive rotations and box outs but that isn't a person lol

[Bourgeois Zee]

Raps' D is the best, but Giannis is the most disruptive, IMO.

Harden's defensive rating this year is 105. Davis' is 102. Gobert's is 104.

Giannis's is 97. (Led the league.)

[Bourgeois Zee]

Two more teams have a chance at moving on tonight: Milwaukee and the Lakers.

Houston - OKC will be the most interesting. That series is tied up currently.

[texasdave]

Okay. Okay. Harden didn't finish 4th. I just wanted to see if anyone was gonna call that out.

[M2]

Okay. Okay. Harden didn't finish 4th. I just wanted to see if anyone was gonna call that out.

It sounded crazy enough to be true.

[DocRed]

I haven't watched a full game since the season resumed, mainly because my Cav's were excluded. Interestingly though I'm not alone.

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/sports/the-nbas-tv-ratings-are-going-down-why

[Revering4Blue]

Pacers fire Nate McMillan.

WTH? This is an outrage.

[BillDoran]

Indiana will be interesting going forward.

Will Oladipo return to form?

Why does Sabonis want out?

How long until Goga wins an MVP?

Not sure firing McMillan helps or fixes anything. In fact, depending on the hire, I suspect they'll take a step back next year. He's an exceedingly competent coach and does a great job getting buy-in on the defensive side. Haven't followed him particularly closely since he left Portland, but he was pretty unimaginative offensively, which always limited his teams. Having McMillan as your coach is like a guarantee that you'll land between the No. 3 and 8 seeds. You'll always be competitive, but you'll never be a true threat.

Given that Pritchard and Buchanan are exceedingly familiar with McMillan, I suppose you can't say they didn't give him a chance.

[M2]

I haven't watched a full game since the season resumed, mainly because my Cav's were excluded. Interestingly though I'm not alone.

https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/sports/the-nbas-tv-ratings-are-going-down-why

Just a guess, but they're probably catching as many eyeballs as they ever have with a younger audience supplanting an older audience. The ratings just aren't catching how the games are being watched.

Also, after watching the Cavs this season, aren't you at least mildly interested in watching functional teams play? There's some really good basketball going on.

[M2]

Pacers fire Nate McMillan.

WTH? This is an outrage.

I get the disappointment of the sweep, but that seems like an overreaction when McMillan has managed through almost constant change and been hit with major injuries during the playoffs. I'm not sure much of anyone could have done better with the hand he's been dealt.

[Revering4Blue]

Indiana will be interesting going forward.

Will Oladipo return to form?

Why does Sabonis want out?

How long until Goga wins an MVP?

Not sure firing McMillan helps or fixes anything. In fact, depending on the hire, I suspect they'll take a step back next year. He's an exceedingly competent coach and does a great job getting buy-in on the defensive side. Haven't followed him particularly closely since he left Portland, but he was pretty unimaginative offensively, which always limited his teams. Having McMillan as your coach is like a guarantee that you'll land between the No. 3 and 8 seeds. You'll always be competitive, but you'll never be a true threat.

Given that Pritchard and Buchanan are exceedingly familiar with McMillan, I suppose you can't say they didn't give him a chance.

McMillan's Portland tenure is largely irrelevant at this point. Different NBA landscape; Pre pace-and-space. Speculation abounds, but whispers of one or two Pacer's stars (Sabonis?) indicating to management that they wanted to change, and or a mandate by Management to change assistants may have led to this decision.

FWIW, Woj tweeted that D'Antoni is the Pacers target. But Houston isn't firing him unless they lose in the first round.

[Revering4Blue]

I get the disappointment of the sweep, but that seems like an overreaction when McMillan has managed through almost constant change and been hit with major injuries during the playoffs. I'm not sure much of anyone could have done better with the hand he's been dealt.

Exactly. Sabonis and Oladipo didn't develop into stars on their own. And Warren began playing defense under Nate's tutelage. This is a curious decision, even though Pritchard has proven that he knows what the hell he's doing.

[BillDoran]

McMillan's Portland tenure is largely irrelevant at this point. Different NBA landscape; Pre pace-and-space. Speculation abounds, but whispers of one or two Pacer's stars (Sabonis?) indicating to management that they wanted to change, and or a mandate by Management to change assistants may have led to this decision.

FWIW, Woj tweeted that D'Antoni is the Pacers target. But Houston isn't allowing him to go unless they lose in the first round.

No doubt you've got a better sense of the Pacers than I do, but in his four years with the Pacers rankings:


19-20: 19 oRtg, 21 pace
18-19: 18 oRtg, 24 pace
17-18: 11 oRtg, 23 pace
16-17: 15 oRtg, 18 pace


Certainly not terrible figures, but those match the criticisms in Portland, particularly the pace.

D'Antoni would certainly be in interesting hire.

[M2]

FWIW, Woj tweeted that D'Antoni is the Pacers target. But Houston isn't allowing him to go unless they lose in the first round.

That's fascinating. Houston's owner might be going broke, causing D'Antoni, Morey and possibly Harden to jump ship. There's been rumblings, so it's not shocking news, but can they compartmentalize that for this run in the playoffs?

[Revering4Blue]

No doubt you've got a better sense of the Pacers than I do, but in his four years with the Pacers rankings:


19-20: 19 oRtg, 21 pace
18-19: 18 oRtg, 24 pace
17-18: 11 oRtg, 23 pace
16-17: 15 oRtg, 18 pace


Certainly not terrible figures, but those match the criticisms in Portland, particularly the pace.

D'Antoni would certainly be in interesting hire.

I can't argue with the criticism of Nate Mc. in Portland, but higher pace rankings weren't going to push the Pacers past the first round during that four season period. See my post #784 for the reasoning as for the ousters.

[Revering4Blue]

That's fascinating. Houston's owner might be going broke, causing D'Antoni, Morey and possibly Harden to jump ship. There's been rumblings, so it's not shocking news, but can they compartmentalize that for this run in the playoffs?

Yeah, from what I've read, Rockets fans are concerned that their owner is another Robert Sarver. If that's the case and Morey is inclined to jump, the Philly brass should back up the brinks truck for Morey, and stay out of his way. Not that I expect for this to happen, mind you.

[Revering4Blue]

Two more teams have a chance at moving on tonight: Milwaukee and the Lakers.

Houston - OKC will be the most interesting. That series is tied up currently.

Gametime decision for Westbrook.

[Rojo Rijo]

Two more teams have a chance at moving on tonight: Milwaukee and the Lakers.

Houston - OKC will be the most interesting. That series is tied up currently.

A chance? Dame is out and Orlando is a joke. The only silver lining to the bubble playoffs for us is the Nets were worse. Things will wrap up in both series tonight.

[Bourgeois Zee]

D'Antoni would certainly be in interesting hire.

That'd unlock Myles Turner, Warren, Lamb, the Holidays, and especially Oladipo.

Sabonis? Not sure there. He's pretty deliberate.

McConnell might like it too.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Gametime decision for Westbrook.

Westbrook may go off for 50 or shoot 1-20.

He's a feast or famine guy even in the playoffs.

I so hope he comes back, but I'm also happy I don't care who wins or loses this series.

[M2]

Yeah, from what I've read, Rockets fans are concerned that their owner is another Robert Sarver. If that's the case and Morey is inclined to jump, the Philly brass should back up the brinks truck for Morey, and stay out of his way. Not that I expect for this to happen, mind you.

EXACTLY what I was thinking. Brand can keep the GM title and Morey can be team president of basketball affairs.


Gametime decision for Westbrook.

I am here for this intrigue. And I have to believe the decision is yes.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Milwaukee hasn’t taken the court yet for Game 5.

[Boston Red]

If they boycott games 6 and 7, too, or game anything of a series they could possibly lose, I'll be impressed. This? Nah.

[BillDoran]

Milwaukee hasn’t taken the court yet for Game 5.

Given what's going on in Wisconsin, the words of George Hill, Fred VanVleet and Jaylen Brown, I wouldn't be surprised to see some gates boycotted/forfeited/postponed.

[BillDoran]

If they boycott games 6 and 7, too, or game anything of a series they could possibly lose, I'll be impressed. This? Nah.

Not sure you're the audience they're trying to impress--nor whether they're trying to impress anyone--but I'll be sure to note that this hasn't changed your perspective.

[Boston Red]

Not sure you're the audience they're trying to impress

Sports fans aren't important to them?

[BillDoran]

Sports fans aren't important to them?

Think they might have bigger goals in mind.

[Boston Red]

Think they might have bigger goals in mind.

Such as?

[BillDoran]

Such as?

Social change, law enforcement culpability.

[Boston Red]

Social change.

What social change are they going to get by skipping a basketball game?

[dubc47834]

Such as?

REFORM!!!

[Boston Red]

Now, if NFL players go this route and people can't get their fantasy football and Sunday bets in....that might make an impact.

[BuckeyeRed27]

What social change are they going to get by skipping a basketball game?

I dunno lets find out.

[BillDoran]

Now, if NFL players go this route and people can't get their fantasy football and Sunday bets in....that might make an impact.

We got it. You're cynical about these efforts. Point made.

Know that others on this board might disagree with you.

[Boston Red]

I dunno lets find out.

I've got a strong guess.

- - - Updated - - -




Know that others on this board might disagree with you.

Right. We don't all agree. Would be a boring board otherwise.

But I was serious on the NFL stuff. Depriving people of the NFL would piss people off, which is what I assume they're hoping for here. A great majority of people who are NBA fans already agree with these guys' positions on social issues.

[dubc47834]

Such as?

So far it's only 1 game, but this takes balls by all involved. This is brave. This is how change happens. You may think that this isn't important, but there are millions of Americans out there that do!

[BillDoran]

I've got a strong guess.

- - - Updated - - -



Right. We don't all agree. Would be a boring board otherwise.

Big of you to bet on not ending centuries of inequality.

[Boss-Hog]

I'd say the politics area is the appropritate place for the fallout from this decision. Please keep this thread for discussion about the games being played and related matters and feel free to start a new thread in the sub-forum if you'd like to continue this discussion.

[Boston Red]

Any chance the Brewers follow the Bucks' lead? Not a political question, just wondering if I'll have a Reds game to watch tonight.

[M2]

Now, if NFL players go this route and people can't get their fantasy football and Sunday bets in....that might make an impact.

There's no small amount of betting on the NBA, so I'm guessing a few million people just took notice.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Rockets/OKC is not happening now.


I think the NBA Playoffs are over.

[Boston Red]

There's no small amount of betting on the NBA, so I'm guessing a few million people just took notice.

Nothing is even close to NFL football, though.

[M2]

Rockets/OKC is not happening now.

I think the NBA Playoffs are over.

I'll be surprised if that's the case. Tonight isn't happening, but I suspect they'll come to an agreement to restart in a few days.

Though I suppose no one should bet against maximum things-falling-apart in 2020.

[Boston Red]

I see the Magic are not accepting the forfeit, so.....if this just a one game boycott, it will be interesting to see how the NBA handles it. I assume they will honor Orlando's wishes that the game not be forfeit and game 6 on Friday will become game 5.

[ScotlandRed]

No games taking place.

[M2]

No games taking place.

Makes sense, once the Bucks were out the other teams were going to show solidarity. I assume a resumption of games will rest on the Bucks feeling like Kenosha has been resolved in some way, shape or form.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Makes sense, once the Bucks were out the other teams were going to show solidarity. I assume a resumption of games will rest on the Bucks feeling like Kenosha has been resolved in some way, shape or form.

All the players are meeting at 8pm tonight to discuss what to do next.

[adkindo]

So the NBA is just postponing the game....not give the Bucks a loss? Pretty sure the Bucks knew the NBA would not treat it as a boycott/forfeit or they would not have did it. Honestly, do not see the purpose....and there clearly is no sacrifice on anyone's part. If these players felt as strong as they portray on Twitter, then I think they should exit the bubble and cancel/boycott the remainder of the season.

Whether I agree or do not agree with their position, I would at least have to respect that as standing behind their convictions with real sacrifice. Reports after a game about what a team almost did....or postponing a game to the next night is pointless window dressing at best.

My money is on Woj will later let us know they came very close to boycotting the remainder of the season.....they were so close. I get I am coming off a little like a cynical azz.....but really just tired of this type of talk/threat. Either do it or don't do it....but I do not need the NBA media playing this game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

That’s why they are doing this, for your respect.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Honestly, do not see the purpose....

You may want to search out some quotes from various players both on the Bucks and around the league, then.

Education may help you see the reasons why they felt the need for drastic action.

[dubc47834]

At least the Blazers aren't going to lose tonite!!!

[M2]

It's not like there's a blueprint for how to navigate sports during societal upheaval. Without getting political about it, maybe there is no right way and we need to recognize everyone's trying to process this stuff in real time.

[Betterread]

It's not like there's a blueprint for how to navigate sports during societal upheaval. Without getting political about it, maybe there is no right way and we need to recognize everyone's trying to process this stuff in real time.

There is an example of not only navigating but being a change agent during this time: Maya Moore. A four time champion WNBA left her career to pursue reform in the American justice system for black Americans. She works on specific cases with the goal of getting fair and equitable justice for those who have been denied that.
She made $120,000 /yr when she “retired”. LeBron makes an estimated 4x that amount Per Game.
She deserves more respect from the NBA for her work and her character.

[EnglishRed]

Not really a basketball fan but thought you might want to see this:


Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
9m
Sources: The Lakers and Clippers have voted to boycott the NBA season. Most other teams voted to continue. LeBron James has exited the meeting

[Boston Red]

Hmm, Jazz/Nuggs just got more interesting.

[M2]

Not really a basketball fan but thought you might want to see this:


Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
9m
Sources: The Lakers and Clippers have voted to boycott the NBA season. Most other teams voted to continue. LeBron James has exited the meeting

Wonder if anything will change after they sleep on it.

However, does that mean the Mavs and Blazers advance?

[adkindo]

Wonder if anything will change after they sleep on it.

However, does that mean the Mavs and Blazers advance?

I assume the claim will be that the Lakers and Clippers will remain to be united with the other players...would not be shocked if the Lakers and Clippers were the last ones to vote after knowing the results, and Rich Paul is Shams source....

[Stray]

Don't see any way that the Lakers or the Clips actually quit in protest. Feels more like a negotiation ploy to squeeze more out of the owners. But if they do quit then let their opponents advance and the game goes on.

[Reds Freak]

Don't see any way that the Lakers or the Clips actually quit in protest. Feels more like a negotiation ploy to squeeze more out of the owners. But if they do quit then let their opponents advance and the game goes on.

Squeeze more out of the owners? I don't think that's part of the equation at all.

[Rojo Rijo]

Don't see any way that the Lakers or the Clips actually quit in protest. Feels more like a negotiation ploy to squeeze more out of the owners. But if they do quit then let their opponents advance and the game goes on.

You know as well as everyone else that if Lebron is out it's over. His commanding star power is still strong enough to control the league IMO.

If I'm being 100% honest, issues aside, just speaking as a fan who wants to watch/follow, up until the playoffs started this whole thing just felt like a summer league and then the playoffs added some excitement but it felt forced and if it goes away it won't really move the needle for me. With Orlando playing like....Orlando and the Reds nose diving I'm almost missing those April/May days of no sports to be disappointed by.

[Stray]

Squeeze more out of the owners? I don't think that's part of the equation at all.

Not money for the players, but money towards social justice causes.

[Stray]

You know as well as everyone else that if Lebron is out it's over. His commanding star power is still strong enough to control the league IMO.

If I'm being 100% honest, issues aside, just speaking as a fan who wants to watch/follow, up until the playoffs started this whole thing just felt like a summer league and then the playoffs added some excitement but it felt forced and if it goes away it won't really move the needle for me. With Orlando playing like....Orlando and the Reds nose diving I'm almost missing those April/May days of no sports to be disappointed by.

You're probably right, but I'd rather they just let who doesn't wanna play go home and let those who want to play continue.

[Reds Freak]

Not money for the players, but money towards social justice causes.

Ah gotcha, that makes more sense. Although nothing in the Bucks statement last night led me to believe that was an immediate demand, but I'm sure it would be seen as a welcoming gesture by the players.a

[Boston Red]

For now, NBA.com shows the Jazz and Nuggets game 6 still scheduled for today at 4pm. The two later games are still on the schedule as well.

[texasdave]

The Jazz should be hoping that the playoffs are scratched, because hairballing a 3 games to 1 lead is going to be very embarrassing.

[Boston Red]

The Jazz should be hoping that the playoffs are scratched, because hairballing a 3 games to 1 lead is going to be very embarrassing.

I had that thought yesterday.

[texasdave]

I had that thought yesterday.

To be clear, I hope the Jazz win, because then I can give my nephew grief for another year. I just think Denver is the better team.

[Boston Red]

Well, I guess we'll have to see how embarrassing this turns out to be for the Jazz, because apparently it's back to "Game On" for the playoffs.

[Revering4Blue]

FWIW, Woj tweeted that D'Antoni is the Pacers target. But Houston isn't firing him unless they lose in the first round.

Edit: D'Antoni's a coaching free-agent after this season. That changes the calculus.

[BuckeyeRed27]

To be clear, I hope the Jazz win, because then I can give my nephew grief for another year. I just think Denver is the better team.

What in this series has made you think that? Had Mitchell not had a dumb back court violation in Game 1 it would have been a sweep.

[Boston Red]

Sounds like games will resume tomorrow. So all teams get two extra days.

[Boss-Hog]

I moved a few of the recent political-related posts to a new thread in the Politics & Religion sub-forum. Let's keep this one free of political commentary.

[adkindo]

Former Portland Trail Blazers star Cliff Robinson dies at 53 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29765226/former-portland-trail-blazers-great-cliff-robinson-dies-53)

[BuckeyeRed27]

What a bummer. I loved him growing up even though he didn't play for my team. Always wearing that head band, for whatever reason thought it was the coolest thing.

53 is too young.

[adkindo]

What a bummer. I loved him growing up even though he didn't play for my team. Always wearing that head band, for whatever reason thought it was the coolest thing.

53 is too young.

yeah, i recall Cliff well. He was on the show Survivor one season (within the last decade). I recall him having a stroke a few years ago, but it was my understanding that he had recovered.

[M2]

The Bucks have hit 10 3's int he first half. It's good shooting, but it's also the Magic playing minimal perimeter defense.

[Mutaman]

miami/Bucks should be entertaining. 3 old Marquette guys playing. Plus Hero who is another Wisconsin product.

[M2]

What's PJ Tucker's vertical? One foot? 18 inches?

He fascinates me.

[M2]

The 1st round of the Eastern Conference playoffs was pretty pro forma. Now the challenge starts. I expect the 2nd round to be absolute war. Anyone got predictions/insights?

[adkindo]

The 1st round of the Eastern Conference playoffs was pretty pro forma. Now the challenge starts. I expect the 2nd round to be absolute war. Anyone got predictions/insights?

I typed something...changed it...changed it again....then decided I am not ready to be on the record yet.

[M2]

I typed something...changed it...changed it again....then decided I am not ready to be on the record yet.

These are tough series to figure, right? Every team is a tough matchup for the other.

[Revering4Blue]

Former Portland Trail Blazers star Cliff Robinson dies at 53 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29765226/former-portland-trail-blazers-great-cliff-robinson-dies-53)Just terrible news. For one thing, he was only 7 months older than I am. He certainly was a player that was well ahead of time. Man, imagine him as a small ball center today. He could play every frontline position equally well, and that was very rare for his era. It seems unreal that four members of the Blazers 1990 NBA finals team are no longer with us - Petrovic, Duckworth, Kersey and now, Robinson.

Rest in peace, Uncle Cliffy.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[M2]

I know this gets asked every year, but was tonight C.J. McCollum's last game the Blazers? That's $129M over the next four years that probably needs to be invested elsewhere (*cough* on forwards). They've got to try something different while Dame is still in his prime, don't they?

[BillDoran]

I know this gets asked every year, but was tonight C.J. McCollum's last game the Blazers? That's $129M over the next four years that probably needs to be invested elsewhere (*cough* on forwards). They've got to try something different while Dame is still in his prime, don't they?

If Dame is such a leader, why did he depart the bubble on Thursday? All the respect in the world for the guy, but I find it pretty befuddling that he had a couple of negative MRIs and then split. You'd figure he'd at least stick around and support the team (I'm sure the NBA discourages this, but he could have been "questionable" had he wanted to).

I love C.J., but you do wonder if it's time to shake things up. They've made the past seven playoffs but won a total of four series (and last year's conference finals run was a bit of a fluke). Returning dudes like Hood, Collins and Ariza would certainly help, but these aren't guys that are going to change the conference dynamic. Big offseason ahead for Olshey.

[M2]

If Dame is such a leader, why did he depart the bubble on Thursday? All the respect in the world for the guy, but I find it pretty befuddling that he had a couple of negative MRIs and then split. You'd figure he'd at least stick around and support the team (I'm sure the NBA discourages this, but he could have been "questionable" had he wanted to).

I love C.J., but you do wonder if it's time to shake things up. They've made the past seven playoffs but won a total of four series (and last year's conference finals run was a bit of a fluke). Returning dudes like Hood, Collins and Ariza would certainly help, but these aren't guys that are going to change the conference dynamic. Big offseason ahead for Olshey.

The thing that stands out for me is, in the series where they've been eliminated over those seven seasons, they've only won 1 or 0 games. When they run into the class of the league, they've been an easy out. They need to find another level. Also, this was their worst season in that run. You can argue Nurk will be better next season when he's not working back from a brutal injury (he got chewed up against the Lakers). Trent and Simons should keep getting better. I'm not sure Collins will, but he can be healthier. Yet I don't see a serious contender emerging from the current mix of players.

[BillDoran]

The thing that stands out for me is, in the series where they've been eliminated over those seven seasons, they've only won 1 or 0 games. When they run into the class of the league, they've been an easy out. They need to find another level. Also, this was their worst season in that run. You can argue Nurk will be better next season when he's not working back from a brutal injury (he got chewed up against the Lakers). Trent and Simons should keep getting better. I'm not sure Collins will, but he can be healthier. Yet I don't see a serious contender emerging from the current mix of players.

Yep. For all the announcers' gushing over Nurk, he was exposed as a second- or third-tier center; discount Jokic. You could argue him finding another level is Portland's best shot at making a leap into contender status. There are clear areas where he could improve, namely, finishing in the paint. For as big as he is, he casually flips the ball at the rim way too often. And as magical as he can look at the top of the key, he forces a lot.

And when the Blazers bail on a series, they really bail. Don't forget it, just three seasons ago this nucleus was swept by the Pelicans in the first round. That said, they've also been on the wrong side of the Warriors dynasty, having been knocked out three of the past five years by Curry and company.

It would seem crazy to stay the course this offseason, but it's been crazy to work on the periphery of a roster that need a real infusion for the past three offseasons. Also, I have next to no faith in Olshey on the free agent market. His one big signing was Evan Turner. He pushed all his chips in on Chandler Parsons and Roy Hiibbert in the past as well. Whiffing has actually been the best thing he's done outside of drafting Lillard and McCollum and trading for Nurk.

[texasdave]

Eastern Conference semis will go chalk. Bucks over Heat. Raptors over Celtics.

[M2]

Got a burr in my saddle with a historical team remake. The 1980s Denver Nuggets were a great coulda, shoulda, woulda team. Alex English refused to age as he got deeper into his 30s and Fat Lever was a do-everything guard. In 1986 they had a legit chance to take the Western Conference, but Calvin Natt got banged up a bit and they fell to eventual conference champs Houston in the 2nd round. The team needs some defense, some depth and (oddly for such a high scoring team) some outside shooting.

In real life they'll trade the 1987 1st round pick that becomes Olden Polynice (which means it can fetch you Scottie Pippen) for Darrell Walker. I have been summoned from the future to change the timeline. There will be no failed Darrell Walker experiment. Yet what do we do instead?

Step 1 - I don't trust Natt's knees. This will come home to roost in the 1st game of the 1986-87 season, but in the summer of 1986 we've got a window to move the Pit Bull. The New Jersey Nets are entering what looks to be a long trip into the abyss. They can see it coming. Their best player is Buck Williams, who's great as the doing the donkey work on a good team, but he doesn't have the offensive game to carry a bad team. So we're going to trade Natt (who can score), a 1986 1st rounder (#16) and a 1988 1st rounder for Williams and the Nets' 1990 1st rounder. The Nets can replenish their stores sooner and Natt, theoretically, will put up some points. Meanwhile, Buck adds the backbone Denver needs and something tells me that 1990 Nets pick will fit like a Glove.

Step 2 - The Nuggets are going to discover what a prolific three-point shooter can bring to the team in 1987, but we're going to advance that process by a year and add more than one shooter. The New York Knicks have a guy who might be the most underappreciated player in the NBA. He's been forgotten in the sands of time, but Trent Tucker is a baller. He will retire with a .408 3P%. He's a 6'5" lockup defender who also takes care of the ball pretty well (career 2.5 assist-to-turnover ratio). His per 36 ppg is 16.5 and the Knicks are never going to give him starter's minutes. For some reason Bill Hanzlik is a well-regarded 6th man. So we're trading him for Tucker. The Knicks think they've got an improved version of Ernie Grunfield, but what's really happened is Denver's added a shooter/defender to its high-paced system. Lever and Tucker will be mugging opposing backcourts.

Step 3 - I'm going to address depth via free agency. A year from now, the Nuggets are going to trade for Michael Adams and let him fire at will. Yet the Mad Bomber is a free agent today. I don't have to trade for him. I can just get him for nothing and he's instant excitement off my bench. Also, he can play next to either of Lever (which worked like a charm in real life) or Tucker. In addition, I need a 6th man and Rod Higgins is an intriguing combo forward who just bounced between four teams the previous season. He'll keep playing well into the '90s when someone figures out he's got a tasty outside shot. Well, we've heard tell he drains it from the outside during practices and we're going to sign him for peanuts and let him do it in games. Now we've got Tucker, Adams and Higgins, and Alex English has gobs of space in which he can operate.

Step 4 - We still have the #18 pick in the 1986 draft. In the discarded timeline the Nuggets will draft Mark Alarie, and he will be perfectly boring. Instead of going with a "safe" pick from a major program, we're going way off the board for a three-time NAIA All-American named Dennis Rodman. We have noticed the value T.R. Dunn has brought to the team as a tireless worker and we will forever regret trading Bobby Jones for the sack of protoplasm named George McGinnis. This Rodman kid looks like he can play up tempo all night long, defend just about anyone and sweep the glass (either as a Buck Williams sub or alongside Buck).

Fallout - This team is going to be miserable to play against moving forward. Pace, space and a dog mentality toward defense. Also, it's got that 1987 draft pick still in its pocket. I've stepped on too many butterflies for it to land in a spot where I can trade up for Pippen, but I might be able to pull off a trade up to snag Reggie Miller. We keep Vernon Maxwell in 1988. We never draft Todd Lichti in 1989, instead grabbing this center out of Serbia named Vlade Divac (who eventually replaces the underrated Danny Schayes/Blair Rasmussen duo). And that 1990 Nets pick turns into Gary Payton, who runs the team through the next decade as Doug Moe takes his rightful place in the coaching pantheon.

[M2]

Eastern Conference semis will go chalk. Bucks over Heat. Raptors over Celtics.

Sure, but I don't think it's going to be easy even if it goes chalk. My thing with Miami is it has the chance to win the perimeter war against the Bucks. And the Celtics are going to force Lowry and Vanvleet to defend Tatum and Brown. Without Hayward, who'd create even more favorable matchups, I still lean toward the Raptors, but it's more of a steadiness/scheme over ceiling lean.

Post-game thought: If Tatum's going to be clearly better than Siakam in this series (and I don't think that's a given), then Toronto's path turns steeply uphill.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The can’t miss anything Jamal Murray has showed up, so probably going to be a Game 7.

[Boston Red]

The can’t miss anything Jamal Murray has showed up, so probably going to be a Game 7.

Utah has been incredibly weak this second quarter so far.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Utah has been incredibly weak this second quarter so far.

Survived pretty well those last 4 minutes which could have been a tipping point. Just like Denver had to be happy to be down 6 at the end of the first, Jazz are equally thrilled to be down 5 at half time.

Weird game so far.

[Boston Red]

Didn't love Niang taking two big 3s in the 4th quarter for Utah. Good player, but not the right guy at that time. Gonna take a miracle now tonight. Murray probably isn't going to miss enough to let Utah back in it.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Didn't love Niang taking two big 3s in the 4th quarter for Utah. Good player, but not the right guy at that time. Gonna take a miracle now tonight. Murray probably isn't going to miss enough to let Utah back in it.

They were open looks set up my Mitchell, just have to make them.

There’s nothing Utah can do when Murray goes crazy. Generally they are playing decent defense on him, he just doesn’t miss.

[Boston Red]

They were open. Just thought the moment was too big for Niang.

Murray isnt human right now.

[BuckeyeRed27]

They were open. Just thought the moment was too big for Niang.

Murray isnt human right now.

It absolutely was, but when Bogdanovic isn’t there someone is going to get their ball in their hands in the clutch.

I guess we will see which Murray shows up on Tuesday. This version is beatable but Conley and Clarkson or Ingles also have to bring their A games. They were more like B games tonight.

[M2]

What Murray and Mitchell have been doing in this series has been exceptional. Like, they're still talking about this 30 years from now.

[adkindo]

Eastern Conference semis will go chalk. Bucks over Heat. Raptors over Celtics.

I am actually leaning the opposite.

[adkindo]

Just terrible news. For one thing, he was only 7 months older than I am. He certainly was a player that was well ahead of time. Man, imagine him as a small ball center today. He could play every frontline position equally well, and that was very rare for his era. It seems unreal that four members of the Blazers 1990 NBA finals team are no longer with us - Petrovic, Duckworth, Kersey and now, Robinson.

Rest in peace, Uncle Cliffy.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

Petrovic died in a manner young men commonly die...not being cold, just saying young people die in accidents. The other 3 were so young to die from health problems. Duck was only in his 40's and Kersey and Cliff in their early 50's.

[Revering4Blue]

Utah has been incredibly weak this second quarter so far.

And this underscores one of the keys to the series before it even began -- and I'm not at all suggesting that the Jazz will not pull this series out in 7: You're (The Jazz) are already missing one of the best shooters in the game, and your bench rotation has basically consisted of only two players (Niang and Clarkson) capable of playing more than 3 or so minutes a night. And you're going up against one of the deeper teams in the league, who's just gotten a key defensive cog (Harris) back. I'm not sure what Snyder can do to counter. Perhaps go back to starting Morgan in a cosmetic starting role to pick up early fouls etc. instead of a starter. Or bite the bullet by going smaller on the second unit by playing Mudiay, with his long wingspan. We shall see.

[Revering4Blue]

Petrovic died in a manner young men commonly die...not being cold, just saying young people die in accidents. The other 3 were so young to die from health problems. Duck was only in his 40's and Kersey and Cliff in their early 50's.

True. And you're right, one death is not like the others. But even so, that '90 Finals matchup took place 30 years ago, but I remember it as though it were yesterday. It's still mind-boggling to me, just as it's mind-boggling to me that Petrovic has been gone for 27 years.

[M2]

And this underscores one of the keys to the series before it even began -- and I'm not at all suggesting that the Jazz will not pull this series out in 7: You're (The Jazz) are already missing one of the best shooters in the game, and you're bench rotation has basically consisted of only two players (Niang and Clarkson) capable of playing more than 3 or so minutes a night. And you're going up against one of the deeper teams in the league, who's just gotten a key defensive cog (Harris) back. I'm not sure what Snyder can do to counter. Perhaps go back to starting Morgan in a cosmetic starting role to pick up early fouls etc. instead of a starter. Or bite the bullet by going smaller on the second unit by playing Mudiay, with his long wingspan. We shall see.

Ingles being sort of useless has complicated matters. And, as you noted, Harris potentially tips the scales. Utah's scoring is coming almost exclusively from Mitchell, Conley and Clarkson. Harris hits them right where it hurts them most.

[Revering4Blue]

Got a burr in my saddle with a historical team remake. The 1980s Denver Nuggets were a great coulda, shoulda, woulda team. Alex English refused to age as he got deeper into his 30s and Fat Lever was a do-everything guard. In 1986 they had a legit chance to take the Western Conference, but Calvin Natt got banged up a bit and they fell to eventual conference champs Houston in the 2nd round. The team needs some defense, some depth and (oddly for such a high scoring team) some outside shooting.

In real life they'll trade the 1987 1st round pick that becomes Olden Polynice (which means it can fetch you Scottie Pippen) for Darrell Walker. I have been summoned from the future to change the timeline. There will be no failed Darrell Walker experiment. Yet what do we do instead?

Step 1 - I don't trust Natt's knees. This will come home to roost in the 1st game of the 1986-87 season, but in the summer of 1986 we've got a window to move the Pit Bull. The New Jersey Nets are entering what looks to be a long trip into the abyss. They can see it coming. Their best player is Buck Williams, who's great as the doing the donkey work on a good team, but he doesn't have the offensive game to carry a bad team. So we're going to trade Natt (who can score), a 1986 1st rounder (#16) and a 1988 1st rounder for Williams and the Nets' 1990 1st rounder. The Nets can replenish their stores sooner and Natt, theoretically, will put up some points. Meanwhile, Buck adds the backbone Denver needs and something tells me that 1990 Nets pick will fit like a Glove.

Step 2 - The Nuggets are going to discover what a prolific three-point shooter can bring to the team in 1987, but we're going to advance that process by a year and add more than one shooter. The New York Knicks have a guy who might be the most underappreciated player in the NBA. He's been forgotten in the sands of time, but Trent Tucker is a baller. He will retire with a .408 3P%. He's a 6'5" lockup defender who also takes care of the ball pretty well (career 2.5 assist-to-turnover ratio). His per 36 ppg is 16.5 and the Knicks are never going to give him starter's minutes. For some reason Bill Hanzlik is a well-regarded 6th man. So we're trading him for Tucker. The Knicks think they've got an improved version of Ernie Grunfield, but what's really happened is Denver's added a shooter/defender to its high-paced system. Lever and Tucker will be mugging opposing backcourts.

Step 3 - I'm going to address depth via free agency. A year from now, the Nuggets are going to trade for Michael Adams and let him fire at will. Yet the Mad Bomber is a free agent today. I don't have to trade for him. I can just get him for nothing and he's instant excitement off my bench. Also, he can play next to either of Lever (which worked like a charm in real life) or Tucker. In addition, I need a 6th man and Rod Higgins is an intriguing combo forward who just bounced between four teams the previous season. He'll keep playing well into the '90s when someone figures out he's got a tasty outside shot. Well, we've heard tell he drains it from the outside during practices and we're going to sign him for peanuts and let him do it in games. Now we've got Tucker, Adams and Higgins, and Alex English has gobs of space in which he can operate.

Step 4 - We still have the #18 pick in the 1986 draft. In the discarded timeline the Nuggets will draft Mark Alarie, and he will be perfectly boring. Instead of going with a "safe" pick from a major program, we're going way off the board for a three-time NAIA All-American named Dennis Rodman. We have noticed the value T.R. Dunn has brought to the team as a tireless worker and we will forever regret trading Bobby Jones for the sack of protoplasm named George McGinnis. This Rodman kid looks like he can play up tempo all night long, defend just about anyone and sweep the glass (either as a Buck Williams sub or alongside Buck).

Fallout - This team is going to be miserable to play against moving forward. Pace, space and a dog mentality toward defense. Also, it's got that 1987 draft pick still in its pocket. I've stepped on too many butterflies for it to land in a spot where I can trade up for Pippen, but I might be able to pull off a trade up to snag Reggie Miller. We keep Vernon Maxwell in 1988. We never draft Todd Lichti in 1989, instead grabbing this center out of Serbia named Vlade Divac (who eventually replaces the underrated Danny Schayes/Blair Rasmussen duo). And that 1990 Nets pick turns into Gary Payton, who runs the team through the next decade as Doug Moe takes his rightful place in the coaching pantheon.

Great job! Some thoughts on this post:

Step 1 - Even though the Nets still managed to qualify for a short-lived stay in the playoffs in '86, the end was coming for that core after Michael Ray Richardson was banned from the league midway through that season. But they somehow in that summer of '86 believed that drafting the late Pearl Washington (Great College player, but an NBA bust, and I did NOT see that coming) and signing Orlando Woolridge, which cost them an '89 lottery pick, while Woolridge missed a considerable amount of time with drug issues, would stabilize that core. And the rest is history. And given that Williams, three year later, only netted them Sam Bowie, who did play well as a Net and Mookie Blaylock, who they traded away for minimal return after drafting Kenny Anderson, they held on to him too long as you alluded to.

Natt, however, IIRC, was viewed as an injury risk circa Summer of '86. So, I'm not sure that Natt and picks alone would have gotten it done. But it could have been reconfigured with additional players and picks, and not necessarily all 1st rounders, with a '90 pick swap or '91 pick swap - the idea to snare Mutombo, assuming the Nuggets go a different route with another impact player in the '89 draft, with Lever remaining healthy '91 - '95 or so in this alternate universe.

Step 2 - That would have been a great trade for both teams, actually. Hanzlick, IMO, would have been a nice addition to the Pitino-era Knicks. And Tucker would have allowed them to go bigger in the '89 draft and avoid Lichti, who still may have been a solid pro if not for a bad car accident before his rookie season in which he was badly injured and he also had to suffer through the major trauma of losing his girlfriend in that accident.

Step 3: Love this! In addition to unlocking Adams' talents in Moe's system. His signing also would have allowed the Nuggets to deal Mike Evans while he still had some value. Higgins, too - especially when you consider how Nelson utilized him with the Run TMC teams in the Bay Area -- would have made a ton of sense. He would have seamlessly replaced Elston Turner in the rotation, after Turner signed with Chicago that Summer.

Step 4: Ah, the drug draft of '86. The draft in which talents such as Rodman, Duckworth, Price and Hornacek somehow fell into the second round, even though, IIRC, the USA today '86 mock had Rodman going to the Nuggets with one of their picks. What may have been. "Safe" picks from major programs, from that era who failed to distinguish themselves in the NBA is a really good topic for another time. Full disclosure: At the time, FWIW, I liked the Maurice Martin pick, but I was "meh" on the Alarie pick. The Alarie pick would have been a lot worse had he not been dealt in the Fall of '87 with Darrell Walker to Washington for Adams and Jay Vincent. That deal directly led to the '88 divisional crown.

Fallout - Not much to really add here. All solid moves. While I agree with Divac in '89 and Payton in '90, it would have been interesting to see how the late Cliff Robinson would have performed in Denver with that core, especially if the '90 pick becomes '91 and Mutombo is selected as I mentioned.

Many Nuggets fans, and rightfully so, point to the Mutombo, Abdul-Rauf (talk about a player whose game would have fit even better in today's NBA landscape) core as the chief example of a Nuggets core not living up to it's potential due to lapses in upper management. But the Nuggets core that you've chosen, even though they rebounded from Natt's injury by capturing the '88 divisional title in an absolutely loaded year for the division, fell off a cliff after that season and it could have been avoided, prolonging Moe's tenure.

[adkindo]

True. And you're right, one death is not like the others. But even so, that '90 Finals matchup took place 30 years ago, but I remember it as though it were yesterday. It's still mind-boggling to me, just as it's mind-boggling to me that Petrovic has been gone for 27 years.

oh yeah....a lot of people see the Pistons won that series 4-1....but every game besides Game 3 was a back and forth dog fight

[BuckeyeRed27]

And this underscores one of the keys to the series before it even began -- and I'm not at all suggesting that the Jazz will not pull this series out in 7: You're (The Jazz) are already missing one of the best shooters in the game, and your bench rotation has basically consisted of only two players (Niang and Clarkson) capable of playing more than 3 or so minutes a night. And you're going up against one of the deeper teams in the league, who's just gotten a key defensive cog (Harris) back. I'm not sure what Snyder can do to counter. Perhaps go back to starting Morgan in a cosmetic starting role to pick up early fouls etc. instead of a starter. Or bite the bullet by going smaller on the second unit by playing Mudiay, with his long wingspan. We shall see.

Honestly I’m not sure the adjustments matter all that much. Utah isn’t playing poorly at all. If Murray is literally not going to miss, than you just have to score with them. Utah can do it, but it takes Clarkson and Conley being super efficient. Ingles can’t take 4 shots either. He is incredibly effective in the pick and roll and they aren’t doing it because he’s playing with the starters and not the second unit, but finding a way to get that going for 8-10 minutes when Plumlee and Porter are in would be smart.

[M2]

Great job! Some thoughts on this post:

Step 1 - Even though the Nets still managed to qualify for a short-lived stay in the playoffs in '86, the end was coming for that core after Michael Ray Richardson was banned from the league midway through that season. But they somehow in that summer of '86 believed that drafting the late Pearl Washington (Great College player, but an NBA bust, and I did NOT see that coming) and signing Orlando Woolridge, which cost them an '89 lottery pick, while Woolridge missed a considerable amount of time with drug issues, would stabilize that core. And the rest is history. And given that Williams, three year later, only netted them Sam Bowie, who did play well as a Net and Mookie Blaylock, who they traded away for minimal return after drafting Kenny Anderson, they held on to him too long as you alluded to.

Natt, however, IIRC, was viewed as an injury risk circa Summer of '86. So, I'm not sure that Natt and picks alone would have gotten it done. But it could have been reconfigured with additional players and picks, and not necessarily all 1st rounders, with a '90 pick swap or '91 pick swap - the idea to snare Mutombo, assuming the Nuggets go a different route with another impact player in the '89 draft, with Lever remaining healthy '91 - '95 or so in this alternate universe.

Step 2 - That would have been a great trade for both teams, actually. Hanzlick, IMO, would have been a nice addition to the Pitino-era Knicks. And Tucker would have allowed them to go bigger in the '89 draft and avoid Lichti, who still may have been a solid pro if not for a bad car accident before his rookie season in which he was badly injured and he also had to suffer through the major trauma of losing his girlfriend in that accident.

Step 3: Love this! In addition to unlocking Adams' talents in Moe's system. His signing also would have allowed the Nuggets to deal Mike Evans while he still had some value. Higgins, too - especially when you consider how Nelson utilized him with the Run TMC teams in the Bay Area -- would have made a ton of sense. He would have seamlessly replaced Elston Turner in the rotation, after Turner signed with Chicago that Summer.

Step 4: Ah, the drug draft of '86. The draft in which talents such as Rodman, Duckworth, Price and Hornacek somehow fell into the second round, even though, IIRC, the USA today '86 mock had Rodman going to the Nuggets with one of their picks. What may have been. "Safe" picks from major programs, from that era who failed to distinguish themselves in the NBA is a really good topic for another time. Full disclosure: At the time, FWIW, I liked the Maurice Martin pick, but I was "meh" on the Alarie pick. The Alarie pick would have been a lot worse had he not been dealt in the Fall of '87 with Darrell Walker to Washington for Adams and Jay Vincent. That deal directly led to the '88 divisional crown.

Fallout - Not much to really add here. All solid moves. While I agree with Divac in '89 and Payton in '90, it would have been interesting to see how the late Cliff Robinson would have performed in Denver with that core, especially if the '90 pick becomes '91 and Mutombo is selected as I mentioned.

Many Nuggets fans, and rightfully so, point to the Mutombo, Abdul-Rauf (talk about a player whose game would have fit even better in today's NBA landscape) core as the chief example of a Nuggets core not living up to it's potential due to lapses in upper management. But the Nuggets core that you've chosen, even though they rebounded from Natt's injury by capturing the '88 divisional title in an absolutely loaded year for the division, fell off a cliff after that season and it could have been avoided, prolonging Moe's tenure.

- I figure we get to rip off one team with these, and the Nets were making strange decisions in those years. A 1990 pick swap totally works for me. Also totally willing to kick Wayne Cooper into the deal.

- Getting rid of Mike Evans, who seemed to be Moe's main weakness (he loved the guy) is definitely part of the plan.

- Did not realize Rodman got mocked to the Nuggets. Now I really hate the Alarie pick. Damn you Vince Boryla.

- Uncle Cliffy would be my 1989 fallback option if everything went so well the Nuggets drafted behind the Lakers (who I assume still draft Vlade), and that's a fantastic consolation prize.

- The 1990s Nuggets definitely were less than the sum of their parts.

[adkindo]

Bucks / Miami has 7 games written all over it

[M2]

Bucks / Miami has 7 games written all over it

Butler is a money player. He's going to be a problem for the Bucks.

And who was putting the clamps on Giannis? That's a terrible game by his standards.

[adkindo]

OKC survives Game 6....on to the first Game 7 of the playoffs!

[BillDoran]

Chris Paul, good at basketball.

Russell Westbrook was oddly bad. I don't know that I've ever seen a player make so many bad turnovers in a game. I know he's coming off an injury, and it wasn't a ton of turnovers but just weird unforced errors.

[Mutaman]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1300192978196148229

[BuckeyeRed27]

OKC survives Game 6....on to the first Game 7 of the playoffs!

It will be the first game 7 after the one that Utah and Denver play tonight.

[Stray]

Very much looking forward to the Jazz and Nuggets tonight.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Very much looking forward to the Jazz and Nuggets tonight.

I already have extreme anxiety.

[texasdave]

I already have extreme anxiety.

If it makes you feel any better, in two game sevens last season, Jamal Murray shot a combined 13 for 37, while not hitting a single trifecta.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If it makes you feel any better, in two game sevens last season, Jamal Murray shot a combined 13 for 37, while not hitting a single trifecta.

That doesn’t make me feel better, but I appreciate the effort.

[adkindo]

It will be the first game 7 after the one that Utah and Denver play tonight.

yeah, that hit me about 10 seconds after I posted and logged off last night.

Clipper and especially the Lakers are getting too much time off....it could hurt them early in series. I think Toronto / Boston will have completed Game 3 before the Lakers even play Game 1.

[adkindo]

It feels like it will be Houston and Denver winning the Game 7's....disagree?

[M2]

It feels like it will be Houston and Denver winning the Game 7's....disagree?

On paper those would be my picks, but here they are in game seven situations in the 1st round. They key for both those teams will be avoiding the choke collar. Denver probably feels confident having battled back from down 3-1 while Houston is going to need lots of drinks to wash last night out of their heads. Yet the most crucial thing for both of them is keeping the mentality that it's theirs to win rather than allowing the terror of a potential upset loss to seep in.

[Boston Red]

Denver has been underdogs in the last three and is only a one point favorite tonight. Would not be much of an upset.

[M2]

Denver has been underdogs in the last three and is only a one point favorite tonight. Would not be much of an upset.

They were favored at the start of the series. I doubt they've forgotten they walked into this as the higher seeded team.

[Boston Red]

Now pick 'em for tonight. Go Jazz.

[M2]

This game has turned into the O.G. Anunoby vs. Marcus Smart offensive duel we all expected.

[M2]

So far Jayson Tatum > Pascal Siakam. And I'm not sure what the Raptors can do to change that.

[Revering4Blue]

oh yeah....a lot of people see the Pistons won that series 4-1....but every game besides Game 3 was a back and forth dog fight

I'll never forget game 2, in which Portland pulled it out in overtime at the Palace to even the series. That WCF series between Portland and Phoenix was a fun one, and very likely would have gone 7 had Kevin Johnson not been sidelined midway through game 6. Lots of good series that year: Phoenix/Utah went the distance (5 games in those days), New York pulling out the deciding game against the Celtics in the Garden, Philly/Cleveland. The best series that year, IMO, was the semifinal match-up pitting San Antonio (Admiral's rookie year, Terry Cummings' Spurs debut season)against Portland, who, despite playing the first two games in the series with Uncle Cliffy filling in for the injured Duckworth, won both games and pulled out game 7.

One more fun fact: That '89-'90 season was the last for CBS. Dick Stockton and Tommy Heinsohn were a great broadcasting team.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Whatever the Jazz were doing that quarter, I hope they stop. Somehow only down 5.

[Revering4Blue]

- I figure we get to rip off one team with these, and the Nets were making strange decisions in those years. A 1990 pick swap totally works for me. Also totally willing to kick Wayne Cooper into the deal.

Aside from the fact that Cooper was a feared rim-protector back in the day - a quality that Moe's Nuggets never really had at their disposal until Cooper came aboard - I also suspect that Cooper was kept around to complement the Schayes/Rasmussen duo due to the fact that Twin Towers sets were in vogue then. There were whispers that summer that Jerry Krause offered Sidney Green, who had been relegated to the bench in place of Charles Oakley in Chicago, to Denver in exchange for either Schayes or Rasmussen and the offer was turned down. Green ultimately was dealt to Detroit for Earl Cureton and a second rounder (Justice Winslow's father) who didn't pan out. FWIW, that trade occurred around the time that the Jazz, in hindsight, foolishly dealt Adrian Dantley to Detroit.


- Getting rid of Mike Evans, who seemed to be Moe's main weakness (he loved the guy) is definitely part of the plan.

- Uncle Cliffy would be my 1989 fallback option if everything went so well the Nuggets drafted behind the Lakers (who I assume still draft Vlade), and that's a fantastic consolation prize.

Wholeheartedly agree.


- Did not realize Rodman got mocked to the Nuggets. Now I really hate the Alarie pick. Damn you Vince Boryla.

I do distinctly remember that Rodman as an NAIA player, was the Portsmouth Invitational MVP that year, and was rising up the draft charts. He had the ability to play both F positions. Granted, Alarie wasn't a total bust, as he hung around the league until the early 90's as a glue guy until injuries forced him to retire. But even in that era, low ceiling/high floor players selected at #18 were definitely, no getting around it, a reach. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that Terry Porter in '85 was the only NAIA player to be selected in the first round during the '80's -- this after Portland had stolen NAIA player, Jerome Kersey in the second round in '84 -- and he didn't come off the board until the end of the first round. :dunno:



- The 1990s Nuggets definitely were less than the sum of their parts.

On top of that. the majority of the core were later dealt away for poor returns -- Jalen Rose, Adur-Raoof among them. And it was simply indefensible that Mutombo was allowed to walk for nothing in '96, a year in which the Nuggets missed the playoffs anyway. A number of teams, particularly in the West, could have used him as a trading deadline rental. Seattle, Utah and Phoenix, come to mind; even Atlanta, where he ultimately signed.

No wonder the franchise missed the playoffs for almost a decade following '95.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Jazz picking a great time to play this worst half. Credit to Denver, but Jazz missing open shots, couple dumb turnovers and not playing with a lot of energy. Mitchell needs to have an incredible second half.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Mitchell is having an incredible 3rd quarter. Jazz down 5 now.

[texasdave]

This is playoff basketball.

[Boston Red]

Need Mitchell 3 for the win.

[Boston Red]

Conley would have worked, too. Oh well, that's Jazz basketball.

[texasdave]

Denver with a braindead play at the end, and they got lucky to move on.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Damnit.

[M2]

2nd year in a row the Nuggets escape the 1st round by winning an absolutely wretched Game 7.

[BillDoran]

Not sure what you credit it to, but what a rock fight that was. Shooting percentages: Utah 38.0%, Denver 37.3%. Yeesh.

Looked like the 97 Knicks playing the 98 Knicks.

[texasdave]

Conley missed every kid's dream shot: A three-pointer at the buzzer for the win.

[adkindo]

I actually think the problem was the approach on Utah's next to last possession. I get the preference is to have the ball in Mitchell's hands, but they literally ran no action and it was 1 on 5 with Mitchell taking on the entire Denver defense which could only go one way....he was not getting a clean look even if he could get a shot off. Not sure if that was the way they drew it up, or Mitchell was determined to be the hero, but it was never going to work.

[BillDoran]

I actually think the problem was the approach on Utah's next to last possession. I get the preference is to have the ball in Mitchell's hands, but they literally ran no action and it was 1 on 5 with Mitchell taking on the entire Denver defense which could only go one way....he was not getting a clean look even if he could get a shot off. Not sure if that was the way they drew it up, or Mitchell was determined to be the hero, but it was never going to work.

I'm with you. I hate the late-game iso, but that's like 75% of NBA teams' approach to last-second shots. It's called hero ball for a reason..

When it works, it's legendary, and when you have a LeBron or Lillard or even Donovan Mitchell, it's the default for most coaches.

You're generally getting a fairly bad shot, and a good defensive team will scheme it to be even worse. It also reduces the number of things that can go wrong. And by deferring to the expectation, coaches are less likely to be criticized, and their star player remains content.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I actually think the problem was the approach on Utah's next to last possession. I get the preference is to have the ball in Mitchell's hands, but they literally ran no action and it was 1 on 5 with Mitchell taking on the entire Denver defense which could only go one way....he was not getting a clean look even if he could get a shot off. Not sure if that was the way they drew it up, or Mitchell was determined to be the hero, but it was never going to work.

Hard to say what the play was there since Harris tipped it up top. Mitchell had a ton of success in the series going to the rim, so not sure we can say he wouldn't have gotten a good look, but he probably creates an open shot for someone after he gets by Harris and has 2 guys in the paint waiting for him. Just a good play by Harris.

[Kingspoint]

Not sure what you credit it to, but what a rock fight that was. Shooting percentages: Utah 38.0%, Denver 37.3%. Yeesh.

Looked like the 97 Knicks playing the 98 Knicks.

100% of the credit goes to the pressure of a Game 7. There is no comparison to it, except a Game 7 in the 2nd Rd. Only Jokic showed up and didn't fold in this game for DEN. Porter did some hustle stuff to make up for his shooting. Craig always has that last play in his bag of tools that isn't dependent on pressure. In fact, the more pressure, the more likely he is to come up with a play like that, just like Smart's block three hours earlier with 34 seconds left vs Toronto. Gobert didn't succumb to the pressure, nor did Mitchell, except for the Turnovers (9), and three inside the last five minutes. Though his three's weren't falling, he had the presence of mind to seek other higher percentage shots which he hit instead of continuing to just jack up three's. For UTA's sake, it's good to see that Gobert and Mitchell performed exceptionally well together. They just need some help. They should try to trade Conley (to POR for a sign-and-trade for Whiteside, where UTA gets to be out of his contract after one year, saving all of the latter monies for Conley??? Whiteside backing up Gobert for one season. Conley a backup PG for POR (they don't have one). Unfortunately, the feeling around here is that Jody Allen is going to continue to cut some costs in order to sell the team (not sign Ariza to save $11M), so adding Conley's salary (which is multiplied because of being over the cap) probably isn't going to happen.

Wasn't forgetting Clarkson, who has an attitude where he can handle the pressure of a Game 7, and he did well enough, but part of that was because the players he had to guard were stinking it up, which usually isn't the case with him. Game 7 buckets are difficult to make and he made some.

One last thought....Kendall Walker. When it mattered most, he rose to the occasion, getting three clutch buckets in the closing five minutes of last night's game. He's a great fit with this team, while he has blended in extremely well (they do have a great coach who gets people to buy into the team system...Ainge insists upon it).


Tucker and Covington will be the difference-makers tonight. HOU has to keep Westbrook under control. Russ might not be able to avoid the opportunity to try to be a hero in a Game 7 situation, despite his ability to adapt this season to a more controlled game.

[M2]

I actually think the problem was the approach on Utah's next to last possession. I get the preference is to have the ball in Mitchell's hands, but they literally ran no action and it was 1 on 5 with Mitchell taking on the entire Denver defense which could only go one way....he was not getting a clean look even if he could get a shot off. Not sure if that was the way they drew it up, or Mitchell was determined to be the hero, but it was never going to work.

I'd say Gary Harris' return decided the series on that specific play. Should have been 100% over after that, but Torrey Craig missed a layup and Conley got his desperation heave.

[M2]

One last thought....Kendall Walker. When it mattered most, he rose to the occasion, getting three clutch buckets in the closing five minutes of last night's game. He's a great fit with this team, while he has blended in extremely well (they do have a great coach who gets people to buy into the team system...Ainge insists upon it).

Good to see you come around on Kemba. He's been fantastic since arriving with the Celtics. You can tell he was thirsty to be part of a good team, not to get star treatment. He's been the anti-Kyrie. I might start referring to him as KEMBA (based on the stylizing given to the names of particularly badass Japanese wrestlers).

Other thoughts:

- I don't think anyone is trading much of anything for Whiteside.

- Portland needs forwards. Gordon Hayward - I'm just saying. You can get a Trey Burke type for backup PG.

- If Denver plays like that in a money game against a team with Kahwi on it, it will be crushed.

[Kingspoint]

I'm super tired. Really super tired. I need to go to bed after typing this. Thus the wrong first name onf Kemba.

[Kingspoint]

Good to see you come around on Kemba. He's been fantastic since arriving with the Celtics. You can tell he was thirsty to be part of a good team, not to get star treatment. He's been the anti-Kyrie. I might start referring to him as KEMBA (based on the stylizing given to the names of particularly badass Japanese wrestlers).

Other thoughts:

- I don't think anyone is trading much of anything for Whiteside.

- Portland needs forwards. Gordon Hayward - I'm just saying. You can get a Trey Burke type for backup PG.

- If Denver plays like that in a money game against a team with Kahwi on it, it will be crushed.

Everyone not named Jokic folded...even Murray. Murray and Jokic got them to the 7th game. Was not a lot of help from others. LAC should crush them in four.

On POR, Melo probably resigns with them, while Jody Allen probably chooses to keep the $11M instead of keeping Ariza.

Their starting five from opening camp will be:

Dame
C.J.
Nurk
Melo
Ariza (if Jody Allen pays the money) or Hood (if she doesn't)

Hood will be ready to go when the season starts in February or March (they want to push out the start of the season as long as they can to get the revenue from ticket sales). He'll be ready in January. Zach won't be ready until April probably.

The'll draft another wing this year. They have added Hood, Melo, Ariza, Collins, Little and Hezonja to help with the Wings, while Trent is a Wing (whose minutes they will not replace) for about 15-20 minutes per game in a 3-guard lineup. All of these wings will be back, except probably Ariza, whom we need the most. Wenyen Gabriel has to play backup Center to Nurkic until Collins gets back unless they find a backup Veteran Center on the market in October. That's a huge dropoff, so I would think that Olshey would be looking hard for the right fit there.

[BillDoran]

Everyone not named Jokic folded...even Murray. Murray and Jokic got them to the 7th game. Was not a lot of help from others. LAC should crush them in four.

On POR, Melo probably resigns with them, while Jody Allen probably chooses to keep the $11M instead of keeping Ariza.

Their starting five from opening camp will be:

Dame
C.J.
Nurk
Melo
Ariza (if Jody Allen pays the money) or Hood (if she doesn't)

Hood will be ready to go when the season starts in February or March (they want to push out the start of the season as long as they can to get the revenue from ticket sales). He'll be ready in January. Zach won't be ready until April probably.

The'll draft another wing this year. They have added Hood, Melo, Ariza, Collins, Little and Hezonja to help with the Wings, while Trent is a Wing (whose minutes they will not replace) for about 15-20 minutes per game in a 3-guard lineup. All of these wings will be back, except probably Ariza, whom we need the most. Wenyen Gabriel has to play backup Center to Nurkic until Collins gets back unless they find a backup Veteran Center on the market in October. That's a huge dropoff, so I would think that Olshey would be looking hard for the right fit there.

I'd let Melo go and try to get some approximation of Dorian Finney-Smith, just a dude that will help hold the D together and hit the occasional corner three. I'd prefer a rugged dude that can play on the wing and at the four (and even spot minutes at the five). You could probably get Rondae Hollis-Jefferson or Stanley Robinson for less than Melo's veteran contract. The Blazers need fewer ballstoppers and more bodies that can improve that deplorable defense.

[M2]

I'd let Melo go and try to get some approximation of Dorian Finney-Smith, just a dude that will help hold the D together and hit the occasional corner three. I'd prefer a rugged dude that can play on the wing and at the four (and even spot minutes at the five). You could probably get Rondae Hollis-Jefferson or Stanley Robinson for less than Melo's veteran contract. The Blazers need fewer ballstoppers and more bodies that can improve that deplorable defense.

That is a MUCH better plan. RHJ will scrap all night long. I still think wing scorer is needed if they want to get better and actually pose a threat to top tier teams. How to do that is not a simple matter because it's hard to find a scoring wing who doesn't get roasted on defense on the cheap.

Melo's not a starting player for a contending team. He's at most some bench scoring. Hood's coming back from an Achilles, which means he's likely to be less than his already unimpressive former self. Collins has no business on the wing, which every wing who chewed up out there made clear. Little plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Hezonja's terrible. Ariza's gone in order to save some money. Might be the worst group of forwards in the NBA. They bring back that sorry crew and it's another dog fight just to make the playoffs. Dame should be all over that organization to put a functional team around him.

[BillDoran]

That is a MUCH better plan. RHJ will scrap all night long. I still think wing scorer is needed if they want to get better and actually pose a threat to top tier teams. How to do that is not a simple matter because it's hard to find a scoring wing who doesn't get roasted on defense on the cheap.

Melo's not a starting player for a contending team. He's at most some bench scoring. Hood's coming back from an Achilles, which means he's likely to be less than his already unimpressive former self. Collins has no business on the wing, which every wing who chewed up out there made clear. Little plays like a chicken with his head cut off. Hezonja's terrible. Ariza's gone in order to save some money. Might be the worst group of forwards in the NBA. They bring back that sorry crew and it's another dog fight just to make the playoffs. Dame should be all over that organization to put a functional team around him.

Agreed. When you get down to it, Rodney Hood and Carmelo Anthony play a pretty similar brand of basketball at this juncture. I hope they use No. 16 to get a 3-D guy in the draft and then get a defense-first player on the cheap in free agency. See if you can pack some more weight on Collins (worked for Meyers Leonard) and make him a small-ball five. Go get a more traditional center off the junk pile, and at least you're more flexible than this year.

To be honest though, this team ain't going anywhere past the second round with Lillard, McCollum and Nurk as your big three. The Blazers, as currently composed, are not a remodel. To win a championship, they need to tear down. But I'd probably prefer adding to this architecture than gambling on building anew.

[M2]

Agreed. When you get down to it, Rodney Hood and Carmelo Anthony play a pretty similar brand of basketball at this juncture. I hope they use No. 16 to get a 3-D guy in the draft and then get a defense-first player on the cheap in free agency. See if you can pack some more weight on Collins (worked for Meyers Leonard) and make him a small-ball five. Go get a more traditional center off the junk pile, and at least you're more flexible than this year.

To be honest though, this team ain't going anywhere past the second round with Lillard, McCollum and Nurk as your big three. The Blazers, as currently composed, are not a remodel. To win a championship, they need to tear down. But I'd probably prefer adding to this architecture than gambling on building anew.

I lean toward moving CJ. I understand the value of having a stable and enjoyable product for your fans, but letting Dame's career pass without ever really taking a swing at a title seems criminal to me. Also, there's a chance that with the Warriors back next season and Memphis, Phoenix, Nola and Sacramento all theoretically improving with age (maybe Minnesota too) that Portland will find itself outside the playoff picture if it tries to roll again with this roster. This season has all the hallmarks of being the end of a run - injuries pile up, thin roster, losing record, required a Herculean effort from the team's star player to squeak into the playoffs. That's the profile of a team on the down slope. So I think the greater risk is standing pat.

[Kingspoint]

I'd let Melo go and try to get some approximation of Dorian Finney-Smith, just a dude that will help hold the D together and hit the occasional corner three. I'd prefer a rugged dude that can play on the wing and at the four (and even spot minutes at the five). You could probably get Rondae Hollis-Jefferson or Stanley Robinson for less than Melo's veteran contract. The Blazers need fewer ballstoppers and more bodies that can improve that deplorable defense.

Melo's veteran contract will only be about $2.8M. That's a bargain. We'll have a MLE of about $9M to use among one or more players (if Jody Allen lets Olshey spend it), and while some could be used for Melo instead, I believe he will only get offered the Vet Min (which was reduced due to the shortened season and his coming into the season later and reduced revenue for next season). I wouldn't mind adding Moe Harkless on a vet minimum to help the bench. Rodney Hood plays good wing defense. He is also an excellent 3-pt shooter (4th in the league when he got injured. There is nobody in the league we could obtain that is better than Hood. He and Trent and Hezonja already are penciled in for all 48 minutes of one wing. (26-Hood, 15-Trent, 7-Hezonja). If Ariza is kept or we want to give a thousand minutes to our 1st Rd draft pick, who will definitely be a frontcourt player, then POR will be looking for a playoff-proven successful veteran for any of the three front-court positions. Harkless would be perfect.

[Kingspoint]

Say this every year. They aren't moving C.J. May as well talk about trading for Lebron.

[M2]

There is nobody in the league we could obtain that is better than Hood. He and Trent and Hezonja already are penciled in for all 48 minutes of one wing. (26-Hood, 15-Trent, 7-Hezonja).

I would like to think that if someone said that at a Trail Blazers staff meeting, they'd be escorted from the building. They've got to want more than that.

[adkindo]

biggest bs call I have seen in the NBA in a while.....that call on Dragic fouling Middleton on the 3 point attempt smells all kinds of rotten....

wait, maybe they returned the favor with a crappy foul call on Giannis fouling Butler :laugh:

[SteelSD]

In the end, playoff Jimmy giveth.

But playoff Jimmy almost gaveth away.

[M2]

In the end, playoff Jimmy giveth.

But playoff Jimmy almost gaveth away.

He really escaped a pair of goat's horns on that one.

[adkindo]

Bucks are on the path to embarrassment....

[Stray]

I liked the Heat to come out of the East and nothing I've seen in these playoffs makes me wanna change my mind. They didn't get a whole lot from Jimmy or Bam tonight, blew a late lead, and still beat the #1 seed. They're really good, and they're extremely well coached.

[adkindo]

I liked the Heat to come out of the East and nothing I've seen in these playoffs makes me wanna change my mind. They didn't get a whole lot from Jimmy or Bam tonight, blew a late lead, and still beat the #1 seed. They're really good, and they're extremely well coached.

I "leaned" Boston and Miami in the ECF...."leans" count! I know one thing....Miami better be ready for Game #3 or the Bucks will embarrass them. I expect the Bucks to come out and give it all in Game #3 knowing their season is on the line.

[adkindo]

I keep hearing talking heads suggest that if the Bucks lose to Miami, it is a strong sign that Giannis will began to plan to exit Milwaukee as a FA. That may be true...but I really hate that is where the NBA is in 2020. The fans in Milwaukee may lose the face of the organization and potentially the best player in the league because he failed? The fans showed up (before COVID), the organization put a legit team around him....and somehow the narrative will be they failed Giannis. I get it when the FO and organization is just a dumpster fire.....but that is not Milwaukee and I think it will be bad for the NBA if he leaves. I mean why do the fans in Milwaukee even care for the next 4-5 years when they see how nearly impossible it is to hold onto a difference making star if he leaves?

[BillDoran]

Melo's veteran contract will only be about $2.8M. That's a bargain. We'll have a MLE of about $9M to use among one or more players (if Jody Allen lets Olshey spend it), and while some could be used for Melo instead, I believe he will only get offered the Vet Min (which was reduced due to the shortened season and his coming into the season later and reduced revenue for next season). I wouldn't mind adding Moe Harkless on a vet minimum to help the bench. Rodney Hood plays good wing defense. He is also an excellent 3-pt shooter (4th in the league when he got injured. There is nobody in the league we could obtain that is better than Hood. He and Trent and Hezonja already are penciled in for all 48 minutes of one wing. (26-Hood, 15-Trent, 7-Hezonja). If Ariza is kept or we want to give a thousand minutes to our 1st Rd draft pick, who will definitely be a frontcourt player, then POR will be looking for a playoff-proven successful veteran for any of the three front-court positions. Harkless would be perfect.

You're overvaluing both Melo and Hood. At best, Hood is middle-of-the-road on defense, and his career statistics bear that out. He can knock down shots when he's on, but he's not a deadeye shooter by any means. He also doesn't bring a great deal else to the table outside offense; doesn't rebound much and is another guy that will be a ballstopper when given the chance.

Anybody ticketing Hezonja for any time next year needs to clean up their resume. He's a less talented Evan Turner, minus the ability to stay in front of guys. He's getting paid next-to-nothing, but even then he's a bad Olshey signing.

They need to focus on players that can provide some defensive substance. On nights that matter, Lillard, McCollum and Nurk are going to trigger 2/3 of the shots anyways. Olshey needs to key in on guys that can slow the other team down, move the ball on offense and don't require shots.

[M2]

Houston and OKC playing a tight game, which so far has favored OKC. Can the Rockets pull it out with the pressure on?

[BillDoran]

biggest bs call I have seen in the NBA in a while.....that call on Dragic fouling Middleton on the 3 point attempt smells all kinds of rotten....

wait, maybe they returned the favor with a crappy foul call on Giannis fouling Butler :laugh:

Both those calls--Dragic standing still and Giannis touching Butler's side--make NBA basketball less enjoyable. Throw in Donaghy (and lord knows what else is out there), and it really makes you wonder what you're watching.

[M2]

Both Houston and OKC have forgotten how to play basketball the past few mintues. I guess it's good defense to an extent, but it's also a pile of bad decisions.

[texasdave]

Do not tell me that OKC is going to hit a 3 at the buzzer.

[M2]

This is officially the longest 2.7 seconds in history.

[SteelSD]

This is officially the longest 2.7 seconds in history.

If I had only 1.1 seconds left to live, I'd pick the 1.1 seconds on this clock. I'd have more than enough time to get everything in order.

[texasdave]

Call Guinness. As a Rockets fan, I have been holding my breath now for about 15 minutes.

[texasdave]

James Harden with the key defensive play. That's never been typed before.

The referees have an impossible job. When you have this many big, strong, fast and athletic players all clutching, grabbing and doing whatever it takes to win: How do you see everything that goes on? It cannot be done.

[SteelSD]

James Harden with the key defensive play. That's never been typed before.

The referees have an impossible job. When you have this many big, strong, fast and athletic players all clutching, grabbing and doing whatever it takes to win: How do you see everything that goes on? It cannot be done.

Don't forget flopping. OMG the flopping in the fourth quarter.

Lots and lots of flopping...both teams...like they were schools of fish being landed.

Floppers.

[Mutaman]

I keep hearing talking heads suggest that if the Bucks lose to Miami, it is a strong sign that Giannis will began to plan to exit Milwaukee as a FA. That may be true...but I really hate that is where the NBA is in 2020. The fans in Milwaukee may lose the face of the organization and potentially the best player in the league because he failed? The fans showed up (before COVID), the organization put a legit team around him....and somehow the narrative will be they failed Giannis. I get it when the FO and organization is just a dumpster fire.....but that is not Milwaukee and I think it will be bad for the NBA if he leaves. I mean why do the fans in Milwaukee even care for the next 4-5 years when they see how nearly impossible it is to hold onto a difference making star if he leaves?

They're used to it- See Jabbar, Kareem Abdul
In any event, I doubt the "talking heads" have any insight here.

[M2]

Soccer commentator Steve Nash is the new head coach of the Brooklyn Nets.

Someone really ought to be looking to hire Jacque Vaughn, who did a stellar job in the bubble with a makeshift team.

[adkindo]

Soccer commentator Steve Nash is the new head coach of the Brooklyn Nets.

Someone really ought to be looking to hire Jacque Vaughn, who did a stellar job in the bubble with a makeshift team.

I have seen multiple commentators speak positively of Nash hire, but adding either directly or indirectly that only a white guy gets a head coaching opportunity in the NBA with little to no NBA coaching experience with the indication of Vaughn not getting the opportunity because he is not white. In general, that may or may not be accurate....I am not even trying to discuss if that is mostly accurate. That said...of all the people to make that argument about, Jacque Vaughn is not the guy because he actually got a NBA head coaching job with little NBA experience. I think the bigger issue is because Jacque Vaughn got that opportunity when he likely was not ready, it has negatively impacted his career trajectory. Logic would suggest if Jacque Vaughn remained on the San Antonio bench longer and was better prepared for his first NBA HC job, his career could be in a very different place.

[M2]

I have seen multiple commentators speak positively of Nash hire, but adding either directly or indirectly that only a white guy gets a head coaching opportunity in the NBA with little to no NBA coaching experience with the indication of Vaughn not getting the opportunity because he is not white. In general, that may or may not be accurate....I am not even trying to discuss if that is mostly accurate. That said...of all the people to make that argument about, Jacque Vaughn is not the guy because he actually got a NBA head coaching job with little NBA experience. I think the bigger issue is because Jacque Vaughn got that opportunity when he likely was not ready, it has negatively impacted his career trajectory. Logic would suggest if Jacque Vaughn remained on the San Antonio bench longer and was better prepared for his first NBA HC job, his career could be in a very different place.

Nash strikes me as the rare type who might work with no coaching experience. Rajon Rondo also fits that category. Seems like everybody they played with praises those guys as being off-the-charts smart players. So I get why Nash got that call.

As for Vaughn, if that was him when he's not ready, sign me up.

[Betterread]

An inexperienced Steve Nash to coach the Nets for his first ever head coaching gig. And KD and Kyrie apparently signed off on this decision?
I am really surprised.