2020-21 Euro soccer thread

[M2]

The new season has started. They're playing league games in France (watch Eduardo Camavinga on Rennes if you want to see the newest superman) and Scotland.

Thiago Silva just joined Chelsea on a free transfer - https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4167213/former-psg-captain-thiago-silva-joins-chelsea-on-free-transfer. That club is loading up.

Weston McKennie is finalizing a loan transfer to Juve - https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4167818/usmnts-weston-mckennie-in-italy-ahead-of-juventus-move. That's an important development for U.S. soccer if he gets a regular run with that team.

And supposedly Man City and Leo Messi have agreed to personal terms - https://bitterandblue.sbnation.com/2020/8/27/21404008/manchester-city-and-lionel-messi-agree-personal-terms-report.

[dabvu2498]

Scottish Prem now on ESPN+. My father-in-law is the happiest man in America today. He’s done a lot of law-breaking to watch Hibs over the years.

[ScotlandRed]

Scottish Prem now on ESPN+. My father-in-law is the happiest man in America today. He’s done a lot of law-breaking to watch Hibs over the years.

Speaking as a Hibs fan, it probably wasn’t worth the risk.

[schmidty622]

I don't really get the Thiago Silva deal. I get that it's a free, but a 35 year old, under 6 foot, CB? My buddy suggested that maybe Silva's agent has first rights on one for the future that Chelsea has their eyes on? Agent gets a nice payday, Chelsea get first dibs on a future signing? I guess that's plausible.

[ScotlandRed]

I don't really get the Thiago Silva deal. I get that it's a free, but a 35 year old, under 6 foot, CB? My buddy suggested that maybe Silva's agent has first rights on one for the future that Chelsea has their eyes on? Agent gets a nice payday, Chelsea get first dibs on a future signing? I guess that's plausible.

I think it’s a good deal for Chelsea. They’ve been crying out for an experienced CB to nurture the kids through. If he can provide help to Sarr, Zouma, Tomori and Christensen it will be worth it. May not play every game but seems in good condition and a quality player.

[schmidty622]

I think it’s a good deal for Chelsea. They’ve been crying out for an experienced CB to nurture the kids through. If he can provide help to Sarr, Zouma, Tomori and Christensen it will be worth it. May not play every game but seems in good condition and a quality player.

I suppose. I'd just be worried that the leadership qualities are going to be undercut by the decline due to age.

As a side bar I think Zouma and Christensen are not top 6 defenders. Sarr and Tomori have potential, but Chelsea should keep Rudiger and maybe move Azpi to full time CB.

[ScotlandRed]

I suppose. I'd just be worried that the leadership qualities are going to be undercut by the decline due to age.

As a side bar I think Zouma and Christensen are not top 6 defenders. Sarr and Tomori have potential, but Chelsea should keep Rudiger and maybe move Azpi to full time CB.

Zouma I still have hope for he was pretty good after the break. I do agree with Christensen.

I think Azoi will see a lot less game time as Lampard tries to phase him out and move on with James and Chilwell.

[MWM]

Will be interesting to see McKennie with Juve. Seems like that’s a bit over his head to me.

[M2]

Will be interesting to see McKennie with June. Seems like that’s a bit over his head to me.

Yeah, it all hinges on whether he plays. Hopefully he's going there because Pirlo really likes him.

[MWM]

Yeah, it all hinges on whether he plays. Hopefully he's going there because Pirlo really likes him.

Pirlo one of my favorite all time players. If I could be a soccer player, that’s who I’d want to be.

[M2]

Messi now says he's staying in Barcelona for the next season to avoid a legal dispute and that the club management is a disaster. And their team President just got arrested on corruption charges. There's going to be so much drama with that team this season.

[M2]

I'm a fan of the UEFA League of Nations. Among other things, we finally get to sort out who's the worst out of San Marino, Andorra, Gibraltar, Malta, Liechtenstein and the Faeroe Islands (it's got to be San Marino).

I'm marking out for Portugal's new kit.

https://gmsrp.cachefly.net/images/20/09/06/3e991a3ad5501877c9255d11451827d0/320.jpg

And with two goals against Ukraine, Sergio Ramos just passed Daniel Passarella as the top scoring defender in international football history (23 goals).

[M2]

Cristiano Ronaldo scored his 100th international goal on a free kick. He's only nine back of the all-time record of Iran's Ali Daei.

Update: And now he's at 101.

[Betterread]

Ferland Mendy (Real Madrid) and Dayot Upamecano (Leipzig) were standouts in today’s Nation’s league match France v Croatia. They are players to watch for in the future. Very physical with a very fast pace of play.

[M2]

Ferland Mendy (Real Madrid) and Dayot Upamecano (Leipzig) were standouts in today’s Nation’s league match France v Croatia. They are players to watch for in the future. Very physical with a very fast pace of play.

Madrid has Mendy, Marcelo and Reguilon at left back. It's an embarrassment of riches. As you noted, Mendy has some torrid pace. Love that guy.

[M2]

Arsenal off to a flying start, but Fulham manager Scott Parker really needs to play his best keeper.

[EnglishRed]

Leeds also fall to a defeat, 4-3 away to Liverpool. Thrilling game, defensive errors cost us at least a point against one of the best teams in the world, however we started with our captain Liam Cooper missing through injury sustained playing for Scotland, and our CB pairing of Robin Koch who has not played a minute of football before today as he was away with Germany and Pascal Struijk who is 21 years old, and has played half of his 6 professional games as a midfielder. i thought we were excellent, never gave up, and at times we tore them apart going forward.

[M2]

Everton beat a listless Spurs team today 1-0. Carlo > Mou.

[Betterread]

Gio Reyna just scored his first Bundesliga goal for Dortmund. 17 yrs old A good accurate finish from a tough angle to start Dortmund’s 20-21 campaign. Jadon Sancho is also pretty impressive for their squad.

[M2]

Gareth Bale's year-long loan to Spurs has been inked. He and Jose Mourinho are gushing over each other at the moment - https://www.goal.com/en/news/bale-mourinho-was-a-big-reason-behind-tottenham-return/vhh1dwr4a3w819112tior6tfs. Yet Bale's injured (again) and I've never seen a manager-player pairing more likely to end in bitterness and division. Get some popcorn, because Tottenham's going to be drama.

[M2]

West Brom up 3-0 on Chelsea in the first 30 minutes of the game. Chelsea's got a two-fold problem with its defense. 1) There's all kinds of holes, which might be a function of having a brand new captain (Thiago Silva) on the back line. Though how a guy shows up and immediately becomes the team captain tells you a lot about the state of the club, and the back line looks slow regardless of its organization. 2) This defense is mediocre at best at breaking a high press. They're going to have some long days against top sides.

[M2]

Every week Leeds plays an exciting game. They went at Man City today. Ended 1-1. They fear no one. Everton and Leicester are off and flying too. There's a ton of attacking football in the EPL right now.

[MWM]

It really blows that all group stage champions league matches are available only on streaming. This just seems like bad business by UEFA to sell their rights to such an important growth market to CBS and allow them to use it to promote their streaming platform. Seems short sighted just gs are really taking off in the US.

[M2]

It really blows that all group stage champions league matches are available only on streaming. This just seems like bad business by UEFA to sell their rights to such an important growth market to CBS and allow them to use it to promote their streaming platform. Seems short sighted just gs are really taking off in the US.

Fortunately, I get UniMas.

[MWM]

M2, what is going on?

[M2]

M2, what is going on?

No Sergio. Almost clawed it back. They always hit a funk coming out of the October international break, but they need to get it sorted before this weekend.

[M2]

Real Madrid note: Today things improved.

[M2]

Spain and France are through to the playoff round of the UEFA Nations League. Spain beat Germany 6-0 today to take their group.

[M2]

Diego Maradona dead from a heart attack - https://africa.espn.com/football/argentina-arg/story/4244900/argentina-legend-maradona-dies-at-60.

[westofyou]

Diego Maradona dead from a heart attack - https://africa.espn.com/football/argentina-arg/story/4244900/argentina-legend-maradona-dies-at-60.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vashrNoXTE

[dabvu2498]

Spurs trying to defend their way to some silverware. There have been some bad games between some of the big EPL clubs this year. Today and the recent Liverpool-Man City game come to mind.

[Betterread]

Spurs trying to defend their way to some silverware. There have been some bad games between some of the big EPL clubs this year. Today and the recent Liverpool-Man City game come to mind.

If you are referring to Chelsea : Tottenham today, I thoroughly agree. I think this is the way Jose likes to approach key matches and it is ugly football. The best talent wasted on tactical, pragmatic football.
I wish they would let Deli Alli go somewhere where he can play.

[M2]

If you are referring to Chelsea : Tottenham today, I thoroughly agree. I think this is the way Jose likes to approach key matches and it is ugly football. The best talent wasted on tactical, pragmatic football.
I wish they would let Deli Alli go somewhere where he can play.

Mou makes the game dreadful. Most cynical manager on the planet.

[M2]

I actively root against Barcelona, but Leo Messi's goal scoring tribute to Diego Maradona was pretty awesome - https://sports.yahoo.com/lionel-messi-pays-tribute-to-diego-maradona-after-barcelona-goal-video-153232600.html.

[M2]

Just finished watching "The Empire Strikes Back".

Scratch that, turns out I just finished watching Real Madrid beat league leaders Atletico Madrid.

[M2]

The EPL is fascinating. Tottenham and Liverpool share a lead neither one of them seems to want. Leicester, whom everyone should be rooting for, is one point off the pace, followed by Southampton. Chelsea is lurking in 5th. The Manchesters are slightly off the pace, but they've both got a game in hand. If they each win that game, they're in the hunt. Villa also could be in the hunt if it wins its two games in hand. Meanwhile, Arsenal sits in 15th (17th in goals scored). Gunners fans owe Unai Emery an apology. Also might want to send out a search party for Mesut Ozil.

[IslandRed]

The EPL is fascinating. Tottenham and Liverpool share a lead neither one of them seems to want. Leicester, whom everyone should be rooting for, is one point off the pace, followed by Southampton. Chelsea is lurking in 5th. The Manchesters are slightly off the pace, but they've both got a game in hand. If they each win that game, they're in the hunt. Villa also could be in the hunt if it wins its two games in hand. Meanwhile, Arsenal sits in 15th (17th in goals scored). Gunners fans owe Unai Emery an apology. Also might want to send out a search party for Mesut Ozil.

At least it's not going to be a one- or two-team runaway again. Which makes sense, I guess. With the super-compressed schedule, everyone playing in Europe is dealing with injury and depth and squad rotation issues. There's just no consistency. I'm most familiar with Liverpool's numerous issues, obviously, but it's affecting all the big clubs to some degree.

[M2]

Tottenham's flirtation with the top of the table has ended. Leicester just beat them 2-0 and leapfrogged them into 2nd place. If ManU holds its early 3-0 lead against Leeds, Spurs will drop to 5th place.

Meanwhile, Italy and France are clogged at the tops of their tables. Juve and PSG are not having their usual cakewalks. Makes for plenty of intrigue, not just for the league title, but also the Champions League places.

[Betterread]

Tottenham's flirtation with the top of the table has ended. Leicester just beat them 2-0 and leapfrogged them into 2nd place. If ManU holds its early 3-0 lead against Leeds, Spurs will drop to 5th place.

Meanwhile, Italy and France are clogged at the tops of their tables. Juve and PSG are not having their usual cakewalks. Makes for plenty of intrigue, not just for the league title, but also the Champions League places.
Spurs had an awful week. But I am not giving up. Bale and Allie are underutilized to this point, and if they are healthy and committed, will make a difference in the campaign.

[M2]

Spurs had an awful week. But I am not giving up. Bale and Allie are underutilized to this point, and if they are healthy and committed, will make a difference in the campaign.

I highly recommend not putting your faith in this version of Gareth Bale. And I'm really rooting for him to have a big season to keep him from returning to Madrid's payroll, but he didn't morph into an in-the-box predator the way many (including me) had hoped.

[M2]

It's time to start talking about Sheffield United. They've taken 2 points from their first 15 games, putting them on pace to shatter Derby County's all-time Premier League futility record of 11 points in a season (set in 2007/8). I thought that record was close to unbreakable. Yet Sheffield seems to have the requisite amount of awful to get the job done. They've got a soft patch coming up (Burnley, Palace, Newcastle). If they don't take any points from that, then make sure to catch some of the worst team you're ever likely to see.

[M2]

Was musing in my own head about clubs that I'd like to see back in the top tiers of the Big Five leagues. Curious what picks others here have. Mine:

England - Blackburn Rovers

The club that invented professional football. One of only seven clubs ever to win the Premier League. Also, arguably the best badge in the sport. They're iconic and the EPL could use them.

Spain - RCD Mallorca

There's about a dozen great choices here, but Palma de Mallorca is one of my favorite places on the planet. From a selfish standpoint, I want to go there and see a game.

Germany - Hamburger SV

Famously never relegated until they were in 2018. Six-time German champions, one-time European champion. Also too big a city not to have a top flight team.

Italy - Palermo FC

Currently in Serie C after a promotion from Serie D. They won the Coppa Italia as recently as 2011, 7th oldest club in Italy and Sicily really should have a club competing in the 1st division.

France - Paris FC

It is nearly inconceivable that Paris has been one team town when London and Madrid seem to have a club every stationed inside of every square kilometer. Paris FC have never played top flight, never won anything of note and play in a trash stadium, but French football in general needs them to turn Paris into at least a two team town.

[paintmered]

Zach Steffen gets his first PL start for City.

[schmidty622]

Zach Steffen gets his first PL start for City.

Nearly a shutout! Although the back pass pickup was a little embarrassing...

Frank now officially on the hot seat. Hate to see it.

[MWM]

Hoppe first American to score Bundesliga hat trick

https://www.espn.com/soccer/schalke-04/story/4282710/schalkes-us-teen-hoppe-first-american-to-score-bundesliga-hat-trick

[texasdave]

Hoppe first American to score Bundesliga hat trick

https://www.espn.com/soccer/schalke-04/story/4282710/schalkes-us-teen-hoppe-first-american-to-score-bundesliga-hat-trick

So, there's Hoppe for the future of American soccer afterall.

[M2]

Celtic has 13 players isolating heading into today's game against Hibs - https://www.espn.com/soccer/celtic/story/4285314/celtic-hibernian-to-go-ahead-despite-13-players-manager-self-isolating-after-dubai-trip.

[M2]

In 2007/8 Newcastle was the only club to lose to Derby. Last week it become the only club (so far) to lose to Sheffield.

[MWM]

Goal of the year so far. Pretty ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/1hQSrTa2zAY

[BuckeyeRed27]

Goal of the year so far. Pretty ridiculous.

https://youtu.be/1hQSrTa2zAY

Video was removed

Edit: found it on Twitter....yeah that’s insane

[M2]

Man, that goal.

Also, Leicester's top of the table after beating Chelsea today.

[Betterread]

Alaves 1: Real Madrid 4.
This score line looks like a typical Giant destroying a minnow match, but there were 3 significant story lines here:
1. Alaves took it to the kings for the first 15 minutes. No Zidane due to COVID. It took a quality Casemiro header off a perfect Kroos CK to alter the Alaves dominance.
2. The goal to go up 2-0 was important. Kroos had the ball and needed guidance, so he looked for Modric. Modric was on the opposite site of the field, but Kroos found him and made the delivery. It was like he was saying “you take it, I don’t see a route to goal”. Luka saw Hazard and benzema and quickly played a perfect ball that Hazard dummied or slightly flicked to Bezema - goal.
3. Then Kroos (with newfound confidence) played in Hazard with a beautiful ball for goal #3 and Modric opened up the defense with a pass to Bezema for goal #4.
Kroos and Modric were sublime, and Hazard showed his quality, for the first time in a long time. This was a commanding performance, against a squad that never gave up. Kudos to Alaves in a losing effort as all Madrid’s goals were clinical finishes. They had to be.

[Betterread]

Lampard is out, Tuchel in at Chelsea. He did a good job during the no-transfers year, but once Chelsea opened the checkbook this summer, expectations changed. He did not get the expected production from Havertz and Werner, which Tuchel will be expected to unleash.
Big Q for me- who is the team leader in the field? Who is the alpha?

[M2]

Lampard is out, Tuchel in at Chelsea. He did a good job during the no-transfers year, but once Chelsea opened the checkbook this summer, expectations changed. He did not get the expected production from Havertz and Werner, which Tuchel will be expected to unleash.
Big Q for me- who is the team leader in the field? Who is the alpha?

Odd team. High possession, low shots allowed, but fairly high goals allowed (10th in the league). Could be a keeper issue, but when I've seen them they seem to have a knack for giving up absurdly good chances. That can happen with high possession teams. I kind of wonder if Lampard was pulling at the right thread, but it was going to take some time to fit together that many new pieces. Helps to have a volume scorer in those situations, covers for the glitches in the matrix.

[Betterread]

Sevilla signed Papu Gomez for only $5 million transfer fee. I think he can really help them in a creative midfield role. Excellent business from a pragmatic club.
This is sad for Atalanta, who are weakened by his departure. They have a number of talented players but Papu was definitely their heart and soul. Really surprised Roma or Milan didn’t capture him. They need more quality to keep up with Inter and Juve’s talent level.

[Betterread]

I just realized that Athletico Madrid has 50 points from 19 matches, and has given up 10 goals so far. It is their title to lose. Luis Suarez’s goals have made that squad go from a defense first fortress to a balanced off/def juggernaut.

[M2]

I just realized that Athletico Madrid has 50 points from 19 matches, and has given up 10 goals so far. It is their title to lose. Luis Suarez’s goals have made that squad go from a defense first fortress to a balanced off/def juggernaut.

And Marcos Llorente and Joao Felix have provided all sorts of danger around Suarez too. With Madrid's recent stumble it looks like smooth sailing for Atletico. Will be interesting to see how the Colchoneros do against Chelsea in the CL. Technically, this should be their year.

[Betterread]

And Marcos Llorente and Joao Felix have provided all sorts of danger around Suarez too. With Madrid's recent stumble it looks like smooth sailing for Atletico. Will be interesting to see how the Colchoneros do against Chelsea in the CL. Technically, this should be their year.

I will have to make sure to watch that one.

[M2]

This is more world soccer than Euro soccer, but Tigres just became the first CONCACAF team to progress to the FIFA Club World Cup finals. The beat South America's entry Palmeiras 1-0 on a penalty by Andre-Pierre Gignac (who has scored all their goals in this competition so far and has over the years became a French talisman at the Mexican club). Everyone on the planet assumes they'll meet Bayern in the final. That would be a giant mountain for Tigres to climb, but Tigres has some of Mexico's top defenders anchoring the back line and pretty capable international mix of talent in the midfield and attack. They didn't smash-and-grab against Palmeiras. They went at the Brazilian club and created the better chances. So they've got a chance in the final even if it's a small one.

[Betterread]

FA cup match at Goodison Park, Liverpool, Everton 5: Tottenham 4. Great match (even for a Spurs fan) Great games for Calvert-Lewis, and Richardson. They could not defend Corner kicks. Bernard got the game winner in extra time.

[M2]

FA cup match at Goodison Park, Liverpool, Everton 5: Tottenham 4. Great match (even for a Spurs fan) Great games for Calvert-Lewis, and Richardson. They could not defend Corner kicks. Bernard got the game winner in extra time.

Carlo > Mou.

One thing I've noticed with cup games in general in recent years, regardless of the league, is teams are giving themselves more license to play attacking football in those contests. Teams don't really fear the loss, so they just go for it. It's really entertaining.

[Yachtzee]

FC Bayern beat Tigres for the Club World Cup. Hansi Flick has now lost 5 games as manager of Bayern and won 6 cups.

[schmidty622]

Liverpool in absolute free fall. Lots of blame to go around but I think it's clear that when you remove two (three if you rate Matip) of the best CBs in the league from the team everything else starts to feel the impact.

Honestly think they'll be lucky to make the Europa league and could see some significant outgoing player moves in the Summer.

[M2]

Liverpool in absolute free fall. Lots of blame to go around but I think it's clear that when you remove two (three if you rate Matip) of the best CBs in the league from the team everything else starts to feel the impact.

Honestly think they'll be lucky to make the Europa league and could see some significant outgoing player moves in the Summer.

Losing their CBs is a major blow, and it would fell most clubs. The gap between their starting pairing and the backups is vast. They've been relying on Fabinho (though he was injured today) and I remember when he couldn't get a sniff for Madrid. It is going to be difficult for them to get a CL spot. Once everyone's level on games, they very well could be in 7th. Klopp, whom I think is a great manager, isn't helping of late. He keeps blaming the refs or the scheduling or the weather rather than putting the onus on his team and his game plan. The reality might be Liverpool needs to shift from a high block to a mid or low block in order to protect the back line.

It's looking like the top four right now might be the Manchesters, Leicester and Everton. Everton's got a little work to do with three games in hand, but the other three have staked out their places out front. City is going to win the league. If you want to watch a clinic on how to football, spend a game watching Rodri. Can't say enough glowing things about Leicester. They're the mouse that continues to roar. Ole doesn't get enough credit for what he's done with a highly flawed ManU roster and Carlo Ancelotti is giving everyone a reminder he's one of the best managers on the planet. That Everton's even in the picture at this juncture is amazing.

If those clubs close out the season and take the CL spots, not only would it mean no Liverpool (and the city would be filled with blue shirts lording it over them), it would also mean no London club in the CL for, I think, the first time since they shifted to this format. And the top team from London could end up being West Ham. Allow that to blow some bubbles through your mind for a moment.

[schmidty622]

Losing their CBs is a major blow, and it would fell most clubs. The gap between their starting pairing and the backups is vast. They've been relying on Fabinho (though he was injured today) and I remember when he couldn't get a sniff for Madrid. It is going to be difficult for them to get a CL spot. Once everyone's level on games, they very well could be in 7th.

It's this exactly. What gets under my skin a bit as a Liverpool supporter is the continuing commentary of some sort of fatal flaw with the construction of the team without recognizing the toll that losing Virg and Gomez has had. But that's life in the big city. You're always going to be held to a higher standard.


Klopp, whom I think is a great manager, isn't helping of late. He keeps blaming the refs or the scheduling or the weather rather than putting the onus on his team and his game plan. The reality might be Liverpool needs to shift from a high block to a mid or low block in order to protect the back line.

Agree 100% and its for sure his worst trait as a manager. I think he wants to be the guy that absorbs all the criticism and protect his players but then he projects it outward way too much. He's a bit too much like Mourinho in that regard.



It's looking like the top four right now might be the Manchesters, Leicester and Everton. Everton's got a little work to do with three games in hand, but the other three have staked out their places out front. City is going to win the league. If you want to watch a clinic on how to football, spend a game watching Rodri. Can't say enough glowing things about Leicester. They're the mouse that continues to roar. Ole doesn't get enough credit for what he's done with a highly flawed ManU roster and Carlo Ancelotti is giving everyone a reminder he's one of the best managers on the planet. That Everton's even in the picture at this juncture is amazing.

If those clubs close out the season and take the CL spots, not only would it mean no Liverpool (and the city would be filled with blue shirts lording it over them), it would also mean no London club in the CL for, I think, the first time since they shifted to this format. And the top team from London could end up being West Ham. Allow that to blow some bubbles through your mind for a moment.

Rodri is excellent. Brilliant successor to Fernandinho but with a bit less blunt force.

Everton has constructed an excellent roster. I don't know how much Carlo is behind that in the same way that I don't know how much Klopp is behind Liverpool's roster. Both, I think, are excellent managers of people and that's what has taken their respective sides to the next level.

I would love to see West Ham start to make some noise. While I didn't enjoy their fans throwing bottles at us at Anfield, I won't deny their passion. Having another legit big club in the hunt every year can only be good for the league.

[Betterread]

In the premier league, ManCity has the lead with a strong wind behind them. I think positions 2-6 will change a lot until the end.
West Ham above Chelsea? Chelsea is loaded with talent. Hasn’t been used well so far, but they made a big change. I feel safe in betting in them on being top London Squad. But I am no Chelsea fan. If I am wrong, I will be happy to point out their failure to Chelsea fans in my neighborhood.

Liverpool has it’s problems, but Spurs are in worse shape. If they finish outside of the Europa league, big changes are coming to that club.
I know Leicester are in 2nd and that is good in and of itself because of their payroll and their authenticity but who would you bet on going forward to score more: Jamie Vardy or Mo Salah?
I do think Mo salah wants to play in Spain so he could be gone next year per Schmitty.

Who is going to sign Jadon Sancho? He is the successor to Eden Hazard and he could affect the race for British clubs seeking European club honors. I still don’t get why he plays in Germany.

[Betterread]

Lukaku drove Inter past Lazio 3-1 with two goals, 1 asst. Inter go to top of the serie A table with the win. Lukaku is the MVP as well as top scorer in the league, so far.

[M2]

PSG beat Barcelona 4-1, led by a hat trick from Kylian Mbappe. This isn't the first time PSG has jumped all over Barca in the first leg of a Champions League matchup, but it's hard to imagine this version of Barca scoring four road goals to swing the tie. Now feed me more Mbappe to Madrid rumors.

[M2]

Jordan Henderson just limped off for Liverpool. They're currently down 1-0 to Everton. They'll be effectively in 7th (Everton level on points with a game in hand) and in danger of dropping to 9th if Villa and Tottenham do all right with their games in hand.

[schmidty622]

Jordan Henderson just limped off for Liverpool. They're currently down 1-0 to Everton. They'll be effectively in 7th (Everton level on points with a game in hand) and in danger of dropping to 9th if Villa and Tottenham do all right with their games in hand.

This likely, effectively, marks the end of Klopp at Liverpool. It shouldn't because what is happening is pretty explainable due to injury, but that's not how Soccer works. I bet Stevie G is in as Liverpool manager before Christmas 2021 and fired by Christmas 2022.

[M2]

This likely, effectively, marks the end of Klopp at Liverpool. It shouldn't because what is happening is pretty explainable due to injury, but that's not how Soccer works. I bet Stevie G is in as Liverpool manager before Christmas 2021 and fired by Christmas 2022.

That would be a shame. Given what Klopp's won at Liverpool, he should be their manager for at least a couple of decades.

[schmidty622]

That would be a shame. Given what Klopp's won at Liverpool, he should be their manager for at least a couple of decades.

He doesn't want that (I think he set his end date at Liverpool for like 2024), and in the modern game I don't think it's really possible. Social media has a much bigger impact these days and when they have to sell a Salah or Mane this summer to make up for lost revenue someone's head will have to roll. It aint gonna be John Henry's...

[M2]

He doesn't want that (I think he set his end date at Liverpool for like 2024), and in the modern game I don't think it's really possible. Social media has a much bigger impact these days and when they have to sell a Salah or Mane this summer to make up for lost revenue someone's head will have to roll. It aint gonna be John Henry's...

Wish we had more managers like Diego Simeone at Atletico Madrid. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, because Henry's name will become a curse word in Liverpool if the situation you present plays out.

[Betterread]

That would be a shame. Given what Klopp's won at Liverpool, he should be their manager for at least a couple of decades.

I agree with your main point, but right now Klopp is not tactically strategic. I know that Liverpool’s strength is in their attacking talent, but with all the injuries, it is clear they should bunker down and play for the counter. Salah has been a counter attacking demon with his speed and Mane is not bad either. I watched, and turned off the derby because watching Liverpool try to break down Everton unsuccessfully over and over was the definition of stubbornness.

[schmidty622]

Wish we had more managers like Diego Simeone at Atletico Madrid. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, because Henry's name will become a curse word in Liverpool if the situation you present plays out.

Obviously would love to see Klopp stay at Liverpool. It's a rare fit in terms of managerial ethos and club identity. He's a force for good in the soccer world and with Liverpool's socialist adjacent (or just outright under Shankly) history, a perfect fit for the city and club. I just can't see the owners not taking what they see as the easy way out. They always do.

[schmidty622]

I agree with your main point, but right now Klopp is not tactically strategic. I know that Liverpool’s strength is in their attacking talent, but with all the injuries, it is clear they should bunker down and play for the counter. Salah has been a counter attacking demon with his speed and Mane is not bad either. I watched, and turned off the derby because watching Liverpool try to break down Everton unsuccessfully over and over was the definition of stubbornness.

This too... It's pretty frustrating to see zero change in tactics. People I watch with are clamoring for a 4-2-3-1 but I dunno how much that does (Liverpool already basically play a 2-3-5 in attack). Like you point out I'd rather see the mentality go back to counter attacking. Hard to strangle a team to death when Virg and Gomez aint back there to ail you out.

[M2]

I agree with your main point, but right now Klopp is not tactically strategic. I know that Liverpool’s strength is in their attacking talent, but with all the injuries, it is clear they should bunker down and play for the counter. Salah has been a counter attacking demon with his speed and Mane is not bad either. I watched, and turned off the derby because watching Liverpool try to break down Everton unsuccessfully over and over was the definition of stubbornness.

I've been thinking about this and I'm wondering if maybe he's got his tactics right. Liverpool's front three are the part of their team that's healthy. They can set a mid block and demand Salah and Mane to do more defensive back tracking, but are they going to be any good at that? I'm not sure Klopp's got the personnel to give him effective defense, so it makes the most sense to play to his remaining strength. It's kind of like a serve-and-volley player in tennis. It's higher risk, but you're going to get worn down trying to play on the baseline.

The other thing that fascinates me about Liverpool this season is how important the central defense is to the offense. They don't have CDs making those crucial plays to keep the other team pinned in their own half and they don't have CDs who can break lines with their passing. It translates to fewer opportunities and less space to operate for the attackers. It's changed their whole speed of play. We tend to focus on the goal prevention side of things, but the loss of Gomez and especially van Dijk has blunted their offense as well. A lot of what gets created in this game starts in the back.

[Cliffawed]

Naby Keita is a big miss statistically but they do need to try something different.

Almost see if taking a leaf out of Mourinho book and sit and counter. Treat Bobby like Kane and have the other 2 play like Son.

Its a dice roll every time but break up merchants in the middle and play thru bobby could work. leave FB's to defend if youre weak back there.

[M2]

Naby Keita is a big miss statistically but they do need to try something different.

Almost see if taking a leaf out of Mourinho book and sit and counter. Treat Bobby like Kane and have the other 2 play like Son.

Its a dice roll every time but break up merchants in the middle and play thru bobby could work. leave FB's to defend if youre weak back there.

Except Firmino doesn't score a whole lot. If they pin everybody else back, they might have a fairly toothless attack. I'm just not convinced they can Sam Allardyce their way into a Champions League slot.

[schmidty622]

Except Firmino doesn't score a whole lot. If they pin everybody else back, they might have a fairly toothless attack. I'm just not convinced they an Sam Allardyce their way into a Champions League slot.

They are toothless now... might as well throw everything at the wall and see if anything sticks.

[Betterread]

And Marcos Llorente and Joao Felix have provided all sorts of danger around Suarez too. With Madrid's recent stumble it looks like smooth sailing for Atletico. Will be interesting to see how the Colchoneros do against Chelsea in the CL. Technically, this should be their year.

They didn’t do enough. A well played match. Chelsea deserved a 0-1 win. Both sides played crisp passes around, but the defenses stayed organized. Chelsea played as well as I have seen this year.
Giroud scored a wonderful overhead goal.
Suarez and Werner each performed some pathetic dives.
Llorente is a classy player.
I liked Mount over Behar.
Joao Felix seemed disinterested.

[M2]

They didn’t do enough. A well played match. Chelsea deserved a 0-1 win. Both sides played crisp passes around, but the defenses stayed organized. Chelsea played as well as I have seen this year.
Giroud scored a wonderful overhead goal.
Suarez and Werner each performed some pathetic dives.
Llorente is a classy player.
I liked Mount over Behar.
Joao Felix seemed disinterested.

Joao definitely has slipped from his early form. Didn't see today's game, but were they playing Llorente as a wing back again? He can play all over the place (one of his strengths), but it takes away an essential part of their attack.

[Betterread]

Joao definitely has slipped from his early form. Didn't see today's game, but were they playing Llorente as a wing back again? He can play all over the place (one of his strengths), but it takes away an essential part of their attack.

Yes, Llorente played right back. They played through Correa on the right. Felix was the playmaker in the center of the field, and he showed a lot of skill but Chelsea fouled him everytime he beat his man off the dribble.

[M2]

Yes, Llorente played right back. They played through Correa on the right. Felix was the playmaker in the center of the field, and he showed a lot of skill but Chelsea fouled him everytime he beat his man off the dribble.

Good plan by Chelsea. Correa isn't much of a creator. Give Llorente the ball in those areas and he's liable to do something special at some point. Just looking at some coverage of the game, sounds like Kovacic played well for Chelsea.

[BuckeyeRed27]

There has been very little joy in being an Arsenal fan this year...but that was awesome!

[Betterread]

ManU and Chelsea tied 0-0. This is the third scoreless draw Manu has had in the last seven other two were against Liverpool and the Gooners.
What a total uncreative, unskilled boring match from the British giants(2nd in the league) - again.
The premier league suffers when the class of the league repeatedly plays like this. Shaw and Maguire spent the whole game playing undecisively back to the fullbacks and when they tried to pass incisively, consistently gave it away. And dribbling? Neither one shows any skill in that area. But they do know how to foul, and they have figured out that the Refs indulge ManU so they can foul all game and get called for about 5-10 fouls a game. And Fred? Another butcher. He has worst technical ability I have seen in a champions league club Brazilian player.
Rashford got no service because James consistently tried and failed through the defense, ignoring his teammates.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Rangers won the Scottish league today and haven’t lost a game all season. Pretty wild considering what happened to that club.

[paintmered]

Fulham steal three points at Anfield. Have to think the Cottagers are showing enough quality and determination to stay up. And Liverpool? Does Klopp survive yet another home defeat?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Fulham steal three points at Anfield. Have to think the Cottagers are showing enough quality and determination to stay up. And Liverpool? Does Klopp survive yet another home defeat?

Is he really in trouble? There issues are pretty obviously injury related. I can’t believe they’d be dumb enough to fire him.

[M2]

Fulham steal three points at Anfield. Have to think the Cottagers are showing enough quality and determination to stay up. And Liverpool? Does Klopp survive yet another home defeat?

Klopp's probably not in any danger until after they're out of the Champions League. Yet Liverpool's chances finishing top four are getting remote. They could be in 9th when everyone gets level with them on games. It's probably CL or bust for them. Quick question for anyone who watched the game, was Salah as bad as what I'm reading?

Meanwhile, Chelsea vs. Everton tomorrow is all kinds of high stakes.

[Betterread]

Man U started Manchester derby with aggression and ambition. After two straight 0-0 draws, it is nice to see Fernandez, Martial and Rashford running at defenders. And they led 0-1 at HT with a Fernandez penalty. They really rely on him. City is clearly better, but they have grasped at chances.
I love watching Maghrez work over Luke Shaw on the right wing. He put Shaw on the ground with one of his fakes. But Shaw is trying and so far no goals.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Klopp's probably not in any danger until after they're out of the Champions League. Yet Liverpool's chances finishing top four are getting remote. They could be in 9th when everyone gets level with them on games. It's probably CL or bust for them. Quick question for anyone who watched the game, was Salah as bad as what I'm reading?

Meanwhile, Chelsea vs. Everton tomorrow is all kinds of high stakes.

He got dispossessed and out hustled that directly led to the goal. He wasn’t awful going forward, but he didn’t do much.

[M2]

Man U started Manchester derby with aggression and ambition. After two straight 0-0 draws, it is nice to see Fernandez, Martial and Rashford running at defenders. And they led 0-1 at HT with a Fernandez penalty. They really rely on him. City is clearly better, but they have grasped at chances.
I love watching Maghrez work over Luke Shaw on the right wing. He put Shaw on the ground with one of his fakes. But Shaw is trying and so far no goals.

Shaw is my poster boy for a mostly terrible player who sometimes does something right. He's getting feasted upon by City, but they haven't broken through. And somehow he's scored a goal.

Edit: And ManU wins the derby. For all the glaring flaws on the roster, Ole milks something out of it. If they start buying a better class of player in the future (as opposed to lighting their money on fire), he might lead them somewhere.

[Betterread]

Shaw is my poster boy for a mostly terrible player who sometimes does something right. He's getting feasted upon by City, but they haven't broken through. And somehow he's scored a goal.

And it’s a final 0-2. Good match. Great defending by MnU and nice to see they play positively. Mahrez outscored by Luke Shaw. Shaw may have been outclassed, but he defended well enough and got forward on counters when the team needed it and was rewarded with two really good chances to score, and finished one.
Sterling had the best chances for City but couldn’t convert.

[M2]

Eastern Europe enjoyed its trip to the British Isles today. Dinamo Zagreb came back from a 2-0 hole to knock Tottenham out of the Europa League. Slavia Prague put out Rangers. Olympiakos even won at Arsenal, though not by enough to erase their previous 3-1 loss.

[Betterread]

Dinamo Zagreb beat Tottenham through a hat-trick from Mislav Orsic, a skinny 28 yr old winger who played more like Gareth Bale than Bale himself.
One goal was a swerving long range shot from just outside the left hand corner of the penalty area, the second goal was a strong but simple finish to close out a multiple pass build up that carved open the Spurs defense, and the tie-winner started on the left wing, where Orsic dribbled past four defenders and beat lloris with a low shot to the keeper’s right.
They won with a new coach (started Monday), because their previous coach, Zoran Mamic, was convicted of stealing a lot of money from the club.
I think this defeat seals Mourinho’s fate. Maybe management will wait until the end of the year, but no longer, before they relieve him of his coaching duties.

[IslandRed]

Dinamo Zagreb beat Tottenham through a hat-trick from Mislav Orsic, a skinny 28 yr old winger who played more like Gareth Bale than Bale himself.
One goal was a swerving long range shot from just outside the left hand corner of the penalty area, the second goal was a strong but simple finish to close out a multiple pass build up that carved open the Spurs defense, and the tie-winner started on the left wing, where Orsic dribbled past four defenders and beat lloris with a low shot to the keeper’s right.
They won with a new coach (started Monday), because their previous coach, Zoran Mamic, was convicted of stealing a lot of money from the club.
I think this defeat seals Mourinho’s fate. Maybe management will wait until the end of the year, but no longer, before they relieve him of his coaching duties.

I saw a Twitter comment on the order of, "you always have to watch for that coach-just-got-sent-to-prison bounce..."

Also this morning, CL quarterfinals draw: Man City-Dortmund, Porto-Chelsea, Bayern-PSG, Real Madrid-Liverpool. Pretty solid.

[M2]

Champions League draw:

Real Madrid-Liverpool
Porto-Chelsea
Bayern Munich-PSG
Manchester City-Borussia Dortmund

That list is also the bracket.

Edit: And Island Red beat me to it. So I'll toss in some opinion. Liverpool is the matchup I wanted, partially because I think it's a club made to order for Madrid, partially because it's fun to beat Liverpool. Madrid has got El Clasico with Barcelona sandwiched in between its games against Liverpool. That's one hell of a high stakes week. We'll have to see if I like getting what I wished for.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I saw a Twitter comment on the order of, "you always have to watch for that coach-just-got-sent-to-prison bounce..."

Also this morning, CL quarterfinals draw: Man City-Dortmund, Porto-Chelsea, Bayern-PSG, Real Madrid-Liverpool. Pretty solid.

CBS Sports has been doing this whip around show during the Europa League that I was watching yesterday. They first go to the Spurs game and talk about how the Zagreb coach was sent to prison that week. Then go to Shatkar and talk about how they can't play games at home because of the "on going civil war". The Europa League!

[schmidty622]

Champions League draw:

Real Madrid-Liverpool
Porto-Chelsea
Bayern Munich-PSG
Manchester City-Borussia Dortmund

That list is also the bracket.

Edit: And Island Red beat me to it. So I'll toss in some opinion. Liverpool is the matchup I wanted, partially because I think it's a club made to order for Madrid, partially because it's fun to beat Liverpool. Madrid has got El Clasico with Barcelona sandwiched in between its games against Liverpool. That's one hell of a high stakes week. We'll have to see if I like getting what I wished for.

Real will wreck Liverpool. The Reds have had an ok couple of games but that back line is not gonna hold for long.

I really don't want to see an all English final once Liverpool is bounced so hopefully Real can also knock off Chelsea. Man City seems like a force this year.

[M2]

Real will wreck Liverpool. The Reds have had an ok couple of games but that back line is not gonna hold for long.

I really don't want to see an all English final once Liverpool is bounced so hopefully Real can also knock off Chelsea. Man City seems like a force this year.

I hope you're right about the Madrid-Liverpool. Madrid likes playing against teams with a high press, and the Reds certainly don't seem to have the back line or the midfield to cover when their press gets broken. That said, they've always got a puncher's chance thanks to their forwards.

I feel like PSG and Dortmund aren't getting enough love. PSG has got revenge on its mind, and it's getting Neymar back. That's a heavyweight fight. And Dortmund has a lightning counter. That could be a tricky matchup for City. Erling Haaland's like a boogeyman who moves at the speed of one of those 28 Days Later zombies.

And didn't they ban all-English finals after 2019's snoozefest? That's got to be in the UEFA rulebook.

[M2]

World Cup qualifiers have started in Europe. Burak Yilmaz has dropped a hat trick on the Dutch, putting Turkey up 4-2 at the moment. Been a blast of a game to watch so far, at least if you're not Dutch.

[M2]

Alvaro Morata just scored an absurd goal for Spain. Chest, left foot (his off foot), roof. Never touched the ground.

[Betterread]

Alvaro Morata just scored an absurd goal for Spain. Chest, left foot (his off foot), roof. Never touched the ground.

That was a special goal. The spin he used on the chest trap was amazing.

[texasdave]

This is not really European soccer, but US-Under23 falls to Honduras. So, the US will not make the Olympics in Tokyo.

[M2]

This is not really European soccer, but US-Under23 falls to Honduras. So, the US will not make the Olympics in Tokyo.

Weird choice by the U.S. sending a serious deflated U-23 squad into qualifying. That was their C team. The core of the national team is a U-23 team, but I suppose they didn't want to overwork them with the Olympics and World Cup qualifying taking place this year. Yet there was a B team of guys like Mark McKenzie, Brenden Aaronson and Darryl Dike who should have made easy work of qualifying.

[MWM]

Uh, North Macedonia?

[RedTeamGo!]

Uh, North Macedonia?

My grandfather on my mother’s side was born and lived until he was 17 in what is now North Macedonia. His siblings and their families still live there. My mom visited them about 10 years ago for a month, absolutely loved it. I can’t wait to visit with my family. My fathers side is all German. I was so excited about the result today. Would be so amazing to see them make the WC!

[M2]

Uh, North Macedonia?

And now they're both tied for 2nd in their group behind ... let me confirm I've got this right ... Armenia.

[Kingspoint]

Is Belgium that good?

[M2]

Is Belgium that good?

Belgium's been lit for the past decade. Made the semis in the 2018 World Cup and the quarters in the 2014 World Cup. They're one of the top teams in the world (been ranked #1 by FIFA since late 2018).

[Betterread]

Is Belgium that good?

Belgium=England in Europe. Lots of individual talent (a lot of which plays in the premier League) but they are a level below France and Portugal, who are the Best European soccer countries. Germany and Spain might be above Belgium/England too. And Croatia, Italy and Holland are somewhere in that group, on the outside. One of these 9 will win the Euros this summer. I pick France.
Belgian Player to follow: (if he’s healthy, which he isn’t right now) Eden Hazard is a fantastic attacker who plays with skill and speed and will take on any defense with his dribbling.

[M2]

Belgium=England in Europe. Lots of individual talent (a lot of which plays in the premier League) but they are a level below France and Portugal, who are the Best European soccer countries. Germany and Spain might be above Belgium/England too. And Croatia, Italy and Holland are somewhere in that group, on the outside. One of these 9 will win the Euros this summer. I pick France.

Belgium reminds me more of France because their players fan out to all the top leagues, and there's a certain slickness to their game. I tend to buy into Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski's argument in Soccernomics that England overperforms its talent.

Portugal's in an odd place right now - loaded with attackers, but a little thin on the back line. Very different mix from their 2016 Euro winners. They'll be playing a more open style, which is both thrilling and dangerous (to themselves). The final four in the UEFA Nations League (which concludes in September) are Belgium, France, Italy and Spain. That competition mimics the Euros to an extent. Yet the Euros historically produce some surprise winners - Portugal, Greece, Denmark. So maybe Switzerland or Denmark stun us all. Yet the clock is ticking on Belgium's golden generation to win something.

[Betterread]

The final four in the UEFA Nations League (which concludes in September) are Belgium, France, Italy and Spain. That competition mimics the Euros to an extent.

The UEFA nations league is an attempt to standardize and incentivize “friendlies”. It is a new “tournament” (2019) with only four countries participating
On the other hand, the Euros were started in 1958, and after a thorough qualifying set of matches (as extensive as the World Cup Qualifying process) currently 24 countries will compete for the title. It is for bragging rights to Europe, which is the richest continent....sorry, second after North America.

[M2]

The UEFA nations league is an attempt to standardize and incentivize “friendlies”. It is a new “tournament” (2019) with only four countries participating
On the other hand, the Euros were started in 1958, and after a thorough qualifying set of matches (as extensive as the World Cup Qualifying process) currently 24 countries will compete for the title. It is for bragging rights to Europe, which is the richest continent....sorry, second after North America.

You're forgetting about the group stage in the Nations League. France had to get past Portugal, Croatia and Sweden to reach the knockouts. Obviously not the same thing as the Euros, but a pretty fair measure of who's in form headed into the Euros.

[Betterread]

You're forgetting about the group stage in the Nations League. France had to get past Portugal, Croatia and Sweden to reach the knockouts. Obviously not the same thing as the Euros, but a pretty fair measure of who's in form headed into the Euros.
I must sound pretty contrarian, so this is the last rebuttal. Italy is playing like garbage. If they are in form, then even North Macedonia has a chance to win the Euros, which would be cool. Beach Partying through the night on Lake Ohrid!

[M2]

I must sound pretty contrarian, so this is the last rebuttal. Italy is playing like garbage. If they are in form, then even North Macedonia has a chance to win the Euros, which would be cool. Beach Partying through the night on Lake Ohrid!

Italy's been in a weird place for the past decade. Who's the last truly class player it's produced? Bonucci?

[Betterread]

Italy's been in a weird place for the past decade. Who's the last truly class player it's produced? Bonucci?
Nesta, Maldini, Pirlo and Totti are in that category. Del Piero, Chielinni and Insigne maybe. Why do you rate Bonucci that highly? You like him more than Chiellini?

[M2]

Nesta, Maldini, Pirlo and Totti are in that category. Del Piero and Insigne maybe. Why do you rate Bonucci that highly? You like him more than Chiellini?

I was trying to think of the youngest Italian player who got rated internationally. Bonucci made the FIFPro XI in 2017. You've got to go back to Nesta in 2007 for another Italian field player who made that cut. It's been a real dry spell since that Pirlo, Nesta, Totti, Buffon generation. I'm not sure you win anything with Insigne as your best player. Andrea Bastoni is showing a lot of promise on Inter's back line, and Sandro Tonali's got some chops as a midfield organizer at Milan. So maybe there's a youth movement afoot.

[Betterread]

Forgot about Donnarumma. Chiesa and Zaniolo have potential, but not there yet.

[M2]

Forgot about Donnarumma. Chiesa and Zaniolo have potential, but not there yet.

Yeah, they might have the right keeper with Donnarumma. They'll build out of the back. Maybe it's time to hand the keys to Bastoni and Mancini and see if that re-establishes their impenetrable identity.

[MWM]

This one is up there with the best.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/31188068

[M2]

Big day for Liverpool. They stomped Arsenal and moved to within 2 points of Chelsea for the final CL slot in the EPL.

Meanwhile in Spain, Real Sociedad beat Athletic Bilbao to win the 2020 (no, that's not a typo) Copa del Rey final.

[M2]

Vinicius picked a good time to play the best game of his career.

[M2]

PSG and Bayern are going at each other. It's 2-2 and they've still got 30 minutes to play.

[Tony Cloninger]

I don’t understand how they come up with these things but how does Bayern and PSG get matched together in a Quarters while Chelsea gets Porto.

[M2]

I don’t understand how they come up with these things but how does Bayern and PSG get matched together in a Quarters while Chelsea gets Porto.

It's a random draw. Always has been. Only rule is you can't play someone from your own country or a group stage opponent until you hit the semis. Sometimes you get a hard road. Sometimes you get an easy one, though those easy matchups have a habit of not being so easy.

[Tony Cloninger]

It's a random draw. Always has been. Only rule is you can't play someone from your own country or a group stage opponent until you hit the semis. Sometimes you get a hard road. Sometimes you get an easy one, though those easy matchups have a habit of not being so easy.

Ok. I thought they did it based on rankings of the teams based on their Group game production. I know it’s harder to group these games when you can’t play someone from your own country. Which the EPL has enough of.

[M2]

Ok. I thought they did it based on rankings of the teams based on their Group game production. I know it’s harder to group these games when you can’t play someone from your own country. Which the EPL has enough of.

In the round of 16 the 1st place teams from the groups play the 2nd place teams from the groups, but I think that all gets tossed out for the round of 8.

[Tony Cloninger]

In the round of 16 the 1st place teams from the groups play the 2nd place teams from the groups, but I think that all gets tossed out for the round of 8.

Yes. That part I know unless of course with the same league issues. I just thought into the quarters they would go more for avoiding what looks like a final matchups in the quarters.

Not a knock on Porto who has fielded good teams but like Benfica they get raided for players.

[M2]

Yes. That part I know unless of course with the same league issues. I just thought into the quarters they would go more for avoiding what looks like a final matchups in the quarters.

Not a knock on Porto who has fielded good teams but like Benfica they get raided for players.

I like that they don't play favorites. Also it's pretty cool that we get last year's final and the 2018 final in this year's quarterfinals.

[M2]

If you're into tactics, this is an outstanding breakdown of the Madrid-Liverpool game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndomwj0LMCA&t

[Tony Cloninger]

I like that they don't play favorites. Also it's pretty cool that we get last year's final and the 2018 final in this year's quarterfinals.

I’m a bit salty over AM starting to choke away their best chance to win La Liga since 2014.

[M2]

I’m a bit salty over AM starting to choke away their best chance to win La Liga since 2014.

That's the Atleti brand. They do a lot of heartbreaking. We'll always have 92:48.

[M2]

West Ham beat Leicester 3-2 today, making them 3rd (Leicester) and 4th (West Ham) in the table. Though Chelsea and Liverpool (and possibly Tottenham and Everton) are right on their heels. Rooting hard for Leicester to finish strong and secure a Champions League spot.

And Madrid won El Clasico 2-1 over Barca yesterday, ending Barca's run of 19 straight unbeaten in the league. Karim Benzema scored an absolutely sick back heel goal (and what the video doesn't show is it all started thanks to a smart play out of the back by Eder Militao):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oteZR25C1A

[M2]

Neymar should have five goals right now. He has none. PSG still has its nose in front because of away goals, but Neymar's wastefulness is killing them.

[M2]

PSG and Chelsea through to the semis of the CL. No repeat winner this year.

[M2]

Side note on Champions League broadcasting: I didn't think it was possible for CBS Sports to be worse than the TNT-B/R partnership, but they are. They didn't air a single live game this week on their regular channel. They had last year's finalists playing yesterday. Madrid plays Liverpool today, and the EPL leaders Man City are also in action. The Madrid-Liverpool contest will run at 9 p.m. Instead they're running today's super compelling installment of Tiki & Tierney. They aren't even airing CL studio shows where they break in on the action or wrap up the day's events. You've got to subscribe to Paramount+ to see the games. Well, or you can just use the hack of watching them on Univision, which is supposedly what most people are doing.

When they've aired broadcasts, they've been fairly good, but they are strangling the product in the U.S. market in order to run a streaming service ponzi scheme. My only hope is CBS is taking a bath on this.

[Tony Cloninger]

PSG and Chelsea through to the semis of the CL. No repeat winner this year.


I want PSG to win so Dembele will want to stay and win at PSG instead of trying to do it at Real. That club is so self entitled to everything that they think it’s a given that he goes there. You can win at PSG. They have the resources. It’s Paris. I know the mentality of a footballer though in Europe is to play for RM however. I just get tired of it.

[M2]

I want PSG to win so Dembele will want to stay and win at PSG instead of trying to do it at Real. That club is so self entitled to everything that they think it’s a given that he goes there. You can win at PSG. They have the resources. It’s Paris. I know the mentality of a footballer though in Europe is to play for RM however. I just get tired of it.

I think you mean Mbappe. Honestly, I don't think it matters whether PSG wins or loses. He grew up a massive Cristiano Ronaldo fan and he wants to play for Zidane. Also, having watched some PSG games this season, he doesn't hide his frustration during games with Neymar. Really seems like a matter of whether Madrid and PSG can agree on a price and a payment schedule. If they can't, I assume he's going to somewhere in England, probably ManU. PSG isn't going to risk riding out the final year of his contract and losing him for nothing.

[Tony Cloninger]

I think you mean Mbappe. Honestly, I don't think it matters whether PSG wins or loses. He grew up a massive Cristiano Ronaldo fan and he wants to play for Zidane. Also, having watched some PSG games this season, he doesn't hide his frustration during games with Neymar. Really seems like a matter of whether Madrid and PSG can agree on a price and a payment schedule. If they can't, I assume he's going to somewhere in England, probably ManU. PSG isn't going to risk riding out the final year of his contract and losing him for nothing.

Right. Dembele is with Barcelona and injury prone.

Yes EPL can afford it more. RM would have to give up players.

[M2]

Right. Dembele is with Barcelona and injury prone.

Yes EPL can afford it more. RM would have to give up players.

As I understand it, Madrid will look to buy players on installment plans so they leverage expected revenues from their new stadium, which opens at the start of this next season. They're also going to sell a few players (and cross their fingers someone will loan out Gareth Bale and Eden Hazard). Sounds like Mbappe, Camavinga and Alaba is Plan A.

[IslandRed]

No surprises today, Real and Man City deservedly through to the semifinals. Liverpool performed much better today relative to last week's slop show, but couldn't find the back of the net. Indicative of how things have been since Christmas, really. Can't finish = can't win.

But the next several weeks should be fun. Seven EPL games left and teams 3-6 in the table are separated by four points, Tottenham and Everton still in range also. Yes, please.

[M2]

No surprises today, Real and Man City deservedly through to the semifinals. Liverpool performed much better today relative to last week's slop show, but couldn't find the back of the net. Indicative of how things have been since Christmas, really. Can't finish = can't win.

But the next several weeks should be fun. Seven EPL games left and teams 3-6 in the table are separated by four points, Tottenham and Everton still in range also. Yes, please.

Also can't say enough nice things about the defense of Eder Militao and Nacho Fernandez.

On the Liverpool side, it was both the good and bad of Firmino on display. He did a ton of work, but when the chances fell to him he didn't pose a lot of danger.

[MWM]

So what are the chances this European Super League actually happens?

[M2]

So what are the chances this European Super League actually happens?

I'm hoping zero. If FIFA holds to banning anyone who plays in it from international play, then I don't see how it's supposed to work. Like, if you can't play for Italy, who's going to Juve and the Milan clubs? Same for the English and Spanish club. On top of everything else, I think this league would destroy the traditions built by the clubs who join. Kind of erases everything they've done because it's like they don't value it.

[schmidty622]

I'm hoping zero. If FIFA holds to banning anyone who plays in it from international play, then I don't see how it's supposed to work. Like, if you can't play for Italy, who's going to Juve and the Milan clubs? Same for the English and Spanish club. On top of everything else, I think this league would destroy the traditions built by the clubs who join. Kind of erases everything they've done because it's like they don't value it.

3 of the 4 teams left in the UCL Semis don't value the competition (they sure as hell value the money they get from it). UEFA should just award it to PSG for this season and ban the teams involved in this going forward. They probably can't because they're also just about money and sponsorship but they need to make some sort of stand.

Small potatoes but our Liverpool group is advising people of the dates for the club's Official Membership renewal this year in case they want to cancel the auto renewal. I suspect that is happening in groups all across the world for these clubs. Who cares though... we're just legacy fans.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Such a stupid idea. Hopefully it’s just a massive negotiation tool to get more money from UEFA.

[RedTeamGo!]

If they actually say they won’t allow players to play in the World Cup would players demand their release from these clubs?

[Tony Cloninger]

This is what can happen when you have owners from the US who don’t really like soccer. Definitely big money owners from anywhere who only buy a club because they can.

You can make a super league. They play each other 2x. Then the bottom 4 get relegated back to their leagues. The winners of the EPL. La Liga. Italy and Germany go up. If it’s 2 teams from the same league then 2 from that league go up? But then you leave out good teams from France. Portugal. Porto and Benfica. You leave out Ajax. Who I realize are like Monaco. Selling everyone off and turning to crap.

Do you never relegate then? Since it’s about big money teams only.

[paintmered]

If this plan comes to pass and FIFA follows through on their threat, Pulisic, McKennie and Steffin would be declared ineligible for the World Cup.

[RedTeamGo!]

If this plan comes to pass and FIFA follows through on their threat, Pulisic, McKennie and Steffin would be declared ineligible for the World Cup.

That would be brutal, on the bright side I don’t think Pulisic is long for Chelsea, though.

[M2]

UEFA officials says Real Madrid, Chelsea and Man City are going to be removed from the Champions League on Friday - https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/super-league-uefa-exco-member-says-real-madrid-chelsea-man-city-will-be-removed-from-champions-league-semis/. Gotta say, they deserve it. Instant removal of all the involved clubs from their national leagues wouldn't be too harsh either.

UEFA President Aleksander Ceferin said all players from those clubs will be banned from international competition "as soon as possible." (https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uefa-president-ceferin-says-breakaway-clubs-will-be-banned-soon-possible-2021-04-19/) He also ripped the clubs involved to shreds (https://www.espn.com/soccer/uefa-champions-league/story/4364630/uefa-president-ceferin-on-super-league-spit-in-the-face-of-football-lovers), singling out ManU's Edward Woodward and Juve's Andrea Agnelli, saying "We didn't know we had snakes working close to us, but now we know."

Seriously, this is remarkable stuff. More from Ceferin - "This idea is a spit in the face of all football lovers and our society as well. We must not let them take [football] away from us. I have seen many things in my life, I was a criminal lawyer for 24 years. I've seen many people. I've never seen anyone like that."

[M2]

If this plan comes to pass and FIFA follows through on their threat, Pulisic, McKennie and Steffin would be declared ineligible for the World Cup.

High probability players walk en masse from the clubs involved. Got a feeling their contracts won't be enforceable if they choose to break them. The more I read about this, the more it looks like 12 clubs forming a suicide pact.

[dabvu2498]

I like how Spurs made their attempt to join the “super league” ahead of their botched hiring/firing of Jose Mourinho.

[paintmered]

High probability players walk en masse from the clubs involved. Got a feeling their contracts won't be enforceable if they choose to break them. The more I read about this, the more it looks like 12 clubs forming a suicide pact.

If nothing else, it will present a test to the players as to what they value more: the opportunity for World Cup glory and representing their country or a somewhat bigger paycheck. (We all know the ownership groups will keep the biggest raises for themselves)

The point keeps getting made that this scheme is the "Americanization" of the game, but what I fail to see mentioned is that each of the U.S. leagues have a players union and collective bargaining rights. Is there anything similar proposed for players of the Super League clubs? I'd have to think if the ownership groups are the sole driving force behind this (and it sounds like they absolutely are), then the answer is an emphatic "NO".

From a purely selfish perspective, I would like to see the FA relegate all six clubs back to League 2 if only to keep Fulham from relegation. There is virtue in following a club that's not a front-runner. Less so for glory.

[M2]

If nothing else, it will present a test to the players as to what they value more: the opportunity for World Cup glory and representing their country or a somewhat bigger paycheck. (We all know the ownership groups will keep the biggest raises for themselves).

There's a world full of clubs. You only get to play for one nation (in most cases).

[IslandRed]

I'm fif(sudden coughing fit)thing years old and this might be the most universally disliked actually-serious sports proposal I've seen in my lifetime, and the supporters of the breakaway teams might be the ones who hate it most. I would like to think it's just a negotiation ploy in regards to Champions League payouts but I dunno. As usual, the only people certain to get rich are the lawyers involved. There will be a lot of them.

Now, a word about FIFA. Like the IOC, it is a hideously corrupt mess that somehow manages to do the big things right. The World Cup just works. The structure of the global game just works. Maybe not to people accustomed to the American version of sports, which is based on static leagues for a few big sports that no other country really competes in at the same level, so no one stresses on concepts like pro/rel. (If you're the NFL or NBA.... relegation to what?) But soccer is worldwide, soccer is different, it needs that structure (and I'm still a bit surprised U.S. Soccer is being allowed to ignore it). As for UEFA, it has also managed to create something wonderful (Champions League) in spite of itself. I want it to stay.

[Tony Cloninger]

Perez has already said they will not kick RM out. It won’t happen. Players will also not be kicked out of the WC. Perez said it won’t happen.

Now I badly want it to happen.

[M2]

Perez has already said they will not kick RM out. It won’t happen. Players will also not be kicked out of the WC. Perez said it won’t happen.

Now I badly want it to happen.

He's high on his own farts. Like Island Red mentioned, this might be a negotiating ploy about Champions League payouts, but he does not a have a critical mass behind him and the powers that be seem ready to drop the hammer. He's forgotten he's the beneficiary of the game's ecosystem, not its owner. It won't just serve him no matter what.

[Betterread]

The more I read about it, the more I think it will happen. It’s about making more money for the most profitable clubs.
The reason is that most pro clubs don’t have a big market, don’t make a lot of money, and basically serve as talent development or talent feeder organizations for the big clubs. The big clubs know they are the economic drivers of the leagues and they have been losing a lot of money during the pandemic. They are motivated and organized to maximize their brand, and I think they will go forward with it. I think it will be good for those rich few but hurt the domestic leagues.
If the Champions league ends, I will always remember the theme song. So I thought about the theme song for a new super league: C R E A M by the Wu Tang Clan. A track about teenage poverty, and finding a way out of that cycle to find success, but...”now cash rules everything around me”.

[M2]

The more I read about it, the more I think it will happen. It’s about making more money for the most profitable clubs.
The reason is that most pro clubs don’t have a big market, don’t make a lot of money, and basically serve as talent development or talent feeder organizations for the big clubs. The big clubs know they are the economic drivers of the leagues and they have been losing a lot of money during the pandemic. They are motivated and organized to maximize their brand, and I think they will go forward with it. I think it will be good for those rich few but hurt the domestic leagues.
If the Champions league ends, I will always remember the theme song. So I thought about the theme song for a new super league: C R E A M by the Wu Tang Clan. A track about teenage poverty, and finding a way out of that cycle to find success, but...”now cash rules everything around me”.

I keep getting more and more convinced it won't happen. No German clubs will join because they feel it's anathema to the culture of the sport. Bayern and Borussia Dortmund have said so outright. PSG's president just got elevated to a senior role inside of UEFA, and I suspect the FFF would have no issue taking retribution if it decided to join the Super League. And supposedly Chelsea and Man City only agreed to it because they didn't want to get left out in the cold. My guess is they'll break ranks over the immediate Champions League expulsion threat, leaving Perez and Madrid to twist in the wind.

They don't have all the big sides on board and I suspect they're going to splinter rapidly.

[Betterread]

I keep getting more and more convinced it won't happen. No German clubs will join because they feel it's anathema to the culture of the sport. Bayern and Borussia Dortmund have said so outright. PSG's president just got elevated to a senior role inside of UEFA, and I suspect the FFF would have no issue taking retribution if it decided to join the Super League. And supposedly Chelsea and Man City only agreed to it because they didn't want to get left out in the cold. My guess is they'll break ranks over the immediate Champions League expulsion threat, leaving Perez and Madrid to twist in the wind.

They don't have all the big sides on board and I suspect they're going to splinter rapidly.

Good points. You’re making me feel less anxious.

[M2]

Good points. You’re making me feel less anxious.

I do what I can.

[schmidty622]

Rumors are that Chelsea is backing out.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Chelsea, City and Atletico are all backing out.

That was fun.

[Chip R]

Chelsea, City and Atletico are all backing out.

That was fun.

:laugh: The Continental League lasted longer.

[BuckeyeRed27]

:laugh: The Continental League lasted longer.

Not sure this even qualifies as a Kardashian marriage.

[M2]

It seems like they held maybe 10 of the clubs together long enough to execute an orderly withdrawal from the edge of the cliff. Maybe the thought is UEFA and their domestic leagues won't single them out for punishment if they stick together.

[Betterread]

For the Italian teams at least, a fair and just punishment should be no more favoritism is scheduling matches and referee selection.

[schmidty622]

It seems like they held maybe 10 of the clubs together long enough to execute an orderly withdrawal from the edge of the cliff. Maybe the thought is UEFA and their domestic leagues won't single them out for punishment if they stick together.

I think there still should be a form of punishment, but I can't quite wrap my head around what it should be. Punishing the sporting side of the house seems unfair to the players and fans, who don't seem like they were consulted at all. Punishing just the ownership side would look like a slap on the wrist to all the other teams and their fans that would have been left in the cold with this.

At the very least codify what happens if this is attempted in the future. There is a right way to go about change and this was not it.

Whatever happens, I won't be renewing my Liverpool Membership. I suspect I won't be alone.

[M2]

I think there still should be a form of punishment, but I can't quite wrap my head around what it should be. Punishing the sporting side of the house seems unfair to the players and fans, who don't seem like they were consulted at all. Punishing just the ownership side would look like a slap on the wrist to all the other teams and their fans that would have been left in the cold with this.

At the very least codify what happens if this is attempted in the future. There is a right way to go about change and this was not it.

Whatever happens, I won't be renewing my Liverpool Membership. I suspect I won't be alone.

If I was king of the world, I'd dock them all back to 50 points in their respective leagues at the end of the season so that none of them played in Europe next season. I'd slap a one-year transfer ban on them too. However, it might make more sense for UEFA to be less vengeful and smooth over the tensions.

[tomnuetten]

oh boy was that episode a true example that the leaders of the clubs have no idea what european fans want to see.

more and more (at least german) fans start to lose interest in the champions league and the world of pro soccer... more and more clubs are owned by billionaires, not fans anymore, they play games in other continents just to sell more merchandise, ...

to read the statements from uefa and fifa leaders about the super league is sarcasm at its best. yeah those teams are greedy but the world cup is in katar for one reason $$$. The champions league reform is just another step to a super league by themself...

and Perez is right uefa and fifa can´t afford to suspend every player from those teams, its hard to seel a world cup without the top stars.

it is another episode of billionaires playing with their clubs (toys). I´m happy to support two fan owned clubs and hope that they can be part of first and second league as long as possible and not selling their soul to an investor.

[M2]

Great column from David Goldblatt - https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/20/greed-european-super-league-football-billionaires.


It barely needs reiterating why this is such an appalling idea: the already corrosive imbalance in most European domestic leagues will be made even greater by this hoarding of the spoils. The sight of any ruling elite making inequality ineradicable is contemptible, but set against football’s core mythology – of level playing fields and sporting chances – it is an act of cultural desecration. No less so, is its careless destruction of 65 years of European football as a grand, inclusive, continent-wide narrative and shared ritual experience.

[Chip R]

I don't follow European soccer but this seems like a battle of the haves and have nots which we've experienced here. What is the competitive balance situation there? Do these "superleague" teams always win the FA, European and/or the Club World Cup(s)?

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don't follow European soccer but this seems like a battle of the haves and have nots which we've experienced here. What is the competitive balance situation there? Do these "superleague" teams always win the FA, European and/or the Club World Cup(s)?

England is a little more competitive than the other top leagues domestically, but haven’t faired as well in the Champions Leage recently. There is maybe 6 teams that have the money to compete and other teams like Leicester who won the league a few years back and West Ham who is in a Champions League spot currently can jump up occasionally.

Other top leagues are more top heavy. Spain is basically 3 teams. Italy has basically been 1 until this season. Germany is like 1 1/2. France is basically 1.

The German and French teams weren’t involved in this Super League, but it’s been almost 20 years since a team that you maybe wouldn’t call a power club wasn’t in the Champions League Final.

[M2]

I don't follow European soccer but this seems like a battle of the haves and have nots which we've experienced here. What is the competitive balance situation there? Do these "superleague" teams always win the FA, European and/or the Club World Cup(s)?

The model in soccer isn't based on who gets to win. It's centered around who gets to play. It's an important distinction. The elite have to mix with the rabble. It's the foundation of the sport. So a lot of smaller clubs circulate in and out of the top leagues, getting to try their luck against the giants of the game. The nights when they beat or tie the legends of the game become folklore in those smaller cities and towns. The notion that every club in the sport is connected as part of a greater whole is what helps sustain those smaller locales. Your local club may not be a giant, but it's part of something bigger.

The big clubs win most of the trophies most of the time, but there's no guarantee they get to be big forever. AC Milan, Manchester United and Arsenal all have fallen from their perches in the past decade. They're just happy to make the Champions League these days (and they often don't), but they have no chance of winning it. There's stratification even among the elite and all of them can fall from grace.

[Chip R]

Would a good comparison to this Superleague business be the BCS? In the BCS only the elite teams can make the playoffs. IIRC, the playoff teams share the booty with everyone in their conference but the Superleague just wanted to keep the money amongst themselves.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Would a good comparison to this Superleague business be the BCS? In the BCS only the elite teams can make the playoffs. IIRC, the playoff teams share the booty with everyone in their conference but the Superleague just wanted to keep the money amongst themselves.

It would be a step further than that. It would be like if Ohio State, Alabama and Clemson said that no matter what they are in the playoffs and 1 other team that they decide gets in every year.

[Chip R]

It would be a step further than that. It would be like if Ohio State, Alabama and Clemson said that no matter what they are in the playoffs and 1 other team that they decide gets in every year.

So just like it is now. :lol:

[M2]

So just like it is now. :lol:

Yet imagine if Notre Dame, Michigan and USC had done this back in the day.

[IslandRed]

The model in soccer isn't based on who gets to win. It's centered around who gets to play. It's an important distinction. The elite have to mix with the rabble. It's the foundation of the sport. So a lot of smaller clubs circulate in and out of the top leagues, getting to try their luck against the giants of the game. The nights when they beat or tie the legends of the game become folklore in those smaller cities and towns. The notion that every club in the sport is connected as part of a greater whole is what helps sustain those smaller locales. Your local club may not be a giant, but it's part of something bigger.

It's one of the differences between NCAA Football (the playoff) and NCAA Basketball (March Madness). In football, there are certain schools who are technically eligible for the playoff who just can't get there. We could look at the 2021 schedules today and pinpoint who can't get into the playoff this year even if their team ends up being good enough to spot points to the Packers. In basketball, everyone can play their way to the championship. It rarely happens, but it could, and I like that. (I mean, in the big cutthroat picture, who is Villanova to be winning championships? Who is Butler to be playing for them?)

I grew up in Kentucky, which still has its single-level all-comers high school basketball tournament and the big show of the Sweet Sixteen. Sure, the schools in the cities win most of the time, but when it's single elimination from the start of regionals on, crazy stuff happens. Even if they don't win the big trophy, kids always remember the year they Went To State.

[M2]

Underdogs galore at or in the Champions League slots of major European leagues. Leicester is perilously close to clinching a top four slot. It's got a seven-point cushion over 5th place (West Ham) with five games to play. Everton still has a shot to claim 4th too.

It's kind of impossible for neutrals not to be rooting for Sevilla (three points out of 1st in Spain and up against three Super League elitists). Lille is still clinging to 1st in France. Wolfsburg and Frankfurt are occupying Champions League slots in Germany. And Atalanta could continue its magical run in Italy, currently sitting in 2nd ahead Napoli, Juve and Milan.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Underdogs galore at or in the Champions League slots of major European leagues. Leicester is perilously close to clinching a top four slot. It's got a seven-point cushion over 5th place (West Ham) with five games to play. Everton still has a shot to claim 4th too.

It's kind of impossible for neutrals not to be rooting for Sevilla (three points out of 1st in Spain and up against three Super League elitists). Lille is still clinging to 1st in France. Wolfsburg and Frankfurt are occupying Champions League slots in Germany. And Atalanta could continue its magical run in Italy, currently sitting in 2nd ahead Napoli, Juve and Milan.

Was this a stolen power point slide from the “Why We Need the Super League” presentation?

[M2]

Was this a stolen power point slide from the “Why We Need the Super League” presentation?

Quick! Before they start beating us!

[M2]

City's up 4-1 on aggregate and Angel di Maria just got a deserved straight red. Looks like half the UCL final is booked.

[MWM]

I never root for Goliath, but I have no interest in all England final. The last one was the most dull final I’ve ever seen.

[RedTeamGo!]

I never root for Goliath, but I have no interest in all England final. The last one was the most dull final I’ve ever seen.

Hmm, no, I’ll be rooting for Captain America to play in a champions league final...

[M2]

I never root for Goliath, but I have no interest in all England final. The last one was the most dull final I’ve ever seen.

That final was cursed. Might be the worst game I've ever seen.

Mind you, I will be rooting for Goliath. If Madrid can run the Liverpool, Chelsea, City gauntlet, oh my.

[M2]

Credit to Chelsea, they got their tactics 100% right today. Madrid struggles against a low block, and Chelsea's speed let them play a high press that dropped quickly into a low block. And then they presented all kinds of danger on the counter. Perfect example of how you can control the game without having a lot of the ball.

[RedTeamGo!]

Beautiful play at the end of Pulisic.

[schmidty622]

I never root for Goliath, but I have no interest in all England final. The last one was the most dull final I’ve ever seen.

Agree. Part of the attraction of the competition is playing teams you don't play a bunch. It'll probably wind up the way the FA Cup semi was a few weeks ago. Cagey affair.

That being said I'll toss my hat behind Pep I guess. He's about the only guy I really like between these two teams (other than Pulisic who seems to be on the outside looking in). Would also be a great send off for Aguero.

[M2]

Leicester, after taking only 1 point from games against Southampton and Newcastle, beat ManU 2-1 today. That gives Leicester a 9-point lead on Liverpool, though Liverpool has such a soft remaining schedule it easily could get 9 points from its remaining 4 games. So work remains to be done if Leicester wants to make a second trip to the Champions League (it has remaining games against Chelsea and Tottenham along with the FA Cup final against Chelsea).

And Serie A is threatening to boot Juventus if it doesn't drop the Super League nonsense immediately (like the Milan clubs did) - https://www.espn.com/soccer/juventus-itajuventus/story/4382165/juventus-face-serie-a-expulsion-if-they-dont-withdraw-from-super-league. This could turn into a fairly big deal if Juve doesn't bend the knee quickly.

Oh, and Juve currently sits three points out of a UCL slot with three games to play. Maybe that's why they were so keen to be in an elite competition where they automatically qualify.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Leicester, after taking only 1 point from games against Southampton and Newcastle, beat ManU 2-1 today. That gives Leicester a 9-point lead on Liverpool, though Liverpool has such a soft remaining schedule it easily could get 9 points from its remaining 4 games. So work remains to be done if Leicester wants to make a second trip to the Champions League (it has remaining games against Chelsea and Tottenham along with the FA Cup final against Chelsea).

And Serie A is threatening to boot Juventus if it doesn't drop the Super League nonsense immediately (like the Milan clubs did) - https://www.espn.com/soccer/juventus-itajuventus/story/4382165/juventus-face-serie-a-expulsion-if-they-dont-withdraw-from-super-league. This could turn into a fairly big deal if Juve doesn't bend the knee quickly.

Also Man City won the Premier League.

[M2]

Also Man City won the Premier League.

It seems I have buried the lede.

[Betterread]

Jose has a new job at AS Roma. The Friedkins are owners. Will they allow him to spend money in players that will suit his system?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Jose has a new job at AS Roma. The Friedkins are owners. Will they allow him to spend money in players that will suit his system?

I’m always amazed at the soccer coach carousel. All sports have them, but soccer has never found a failed manager that can’t almost immediately get another job.

[IslandRed]

So, Leicester and Liverpool both beat United, Chelsea loses to Arsenal... and next up, Chelsea hosts Leicester. Extra hot sauce for those last two spots. Liverpool has a game in hand and is almost certain (but not guaranteed) to get in if it wins out, but could still sneak in if either of the other two clubs can't put up a W in the last two. Chelsea beating Leicester is the worst scenario for Liverpool math-wise because it could potentially force them to beat out Leicester on goal differential.

(Assuming I'm reading the table correctly, never mind if I'm not)

[schmidty622]

That Alisson header... might be a season saver.

[M2]

That Alisson header... might be a season saver.

That was amazing. Given that at least one of Chelsea and Leister are dropping points on Tuesday, it puts Liverpool in position to grab that #4 slot.

[schmidty622]

That was amazing. Given that at least one of Chelsea and Leister are dropping points on Tuesday, it puts Liverpool in position to grab that #4 slot.

Yup... there is still some hope!

Alisson seems like a stand up guy too. Gave one of the better PL interviews I've seen in awhile. I had read that his dad had passed in an accident while swimming but didn't put 2+2 together that he couldn't travel home to mourn with his family. He mentioned letters he's gotten from around the Prem as being very helpful in his healing and said something along the lines of 'God shows us love through people'... while I don't share his religious leanings I would cosign the sentiment.

[IslandRed]

And in the alternate history where Alisson's header doesn't happen but everything else stays the same, Liverpool finishes third anyway. Of course, no one was really expecting both Chelsea and Leicester to lose on the final day.

Otherwise in Europe, it was a good year for those who get bored seeing the same team or two finish at the top every year. Congrats to Inter, Atletico and Lille. Now, if we could just find somebody to take a bite out of Bayern...

[schmidty622]

And in the alternate history where Alisson's header doesn't happen but everything else stays the same, Liverpool finishes third anyway. Of course, no one was really expecting both Chelsea and Leicester to lose on the final day.

Otherwise in Europe, it was a good year for those who get bored seeing the same team or two finish at the top every year. Congrats to Inter, Atletico and Lille. Now, if we could just find somebody to take a bite out of Bayern...

Gotta feel for The Brodge. Winning the FA Cup is a great achievement but had he topped it with a UCL bid it would have been so big for Leicester. With the way they identify talent, that extra bit in the purse could have seen them churn the roster in a much bigger way.

[M2]

It's now 16 consecutive wins and 20 years since a Spanish club lost a European cup final to a non-Spanish club. Went 11 rounds of penalties and Villareal wins its first major trophy. Decided by a keeper-on-keeper save.

Huge win for Villareal, which will play in the Champions League next year thanks to this win.

[Betterread]

We all live in a yellow submarine. Congratulations Villarreal.

[schmidty622]

Good Ebening indeed!

[M2]

The managers of the league champs in Germany, Italy and France are all leaving their clubs, which is kind of shocking.

Also, it's blowing y mind that Gianluigi Donnaruma is leaving AC Milan. I really expected him to be there for his whole career.

[Betterread]

There will be a lot of changes to Real Madrid’s aging roster this offseason. I will be surprised if both Kroos and Modric both return, even though they are still at the top of their game - Modric is 35!
Ramos, Hazard, Jovic, Isco, Ramos, Marcelo, Odegaard, Bale could all leave.
With the big Alaba signing, does that mean Varane is gone?

[M2]

There will be a lot of changes to Real Madrid’s aging roster this offseason. I will be surprised if both Kroos and Modric both return, even though they are still at the top of their game - Modric is 35!
Ramos, Hazard, Jovic, Isco, Ramos, Marcelo, Odegaard, Bale could all leave.
With the big Alaba signing, does that mean Varane is gone?

Modric just signed a contract extension for another year. There's talk Bale could retire after the Euros. If there's a taker for Hazard, he's gone. And, yes, Varane seems highly likely to be sold. I still think rumors of Ramos leaving are puppet theater. If Varane is going, the new manager will want Sergio to help lock down the back line. David Alaba, who just signed, is more of a multi-position floater.

Mind you, a lot of what they do will hinge on how hard UEFA lowers the boom on them for the Super League fiasco.

[M2]

Chelsea wins the Champions League. City's sure thing did not come through. Also, 10 years since Pep hoisted the trophy.

[Tony Cloninger]

Modric just signed a contract extension for another year. There's talk Bale could retire after the Euros. If there's a taker for Hazard, he's gone. And, yes, Varane seems highly likely to be sold. I still think rumors of Ramos leaving are puppet theater. If Varane is going, the new manager will want Sergio to help lock down the back line. David Alaba, who just signed, is more of a multi-position floater.

Mind you, a lot of what they do will hinge on how hard UEFA lowers the boom on them for the Super League fiasco.

They instituted a 10% across the board pay cut yet still purchased Alaba? I can only hope they can’t upload and are either stuck with players or sell without being able to replace. I would like to see Sevilla or Villarreal or even Betis make this league more competitive.

[M2]

They instituted a 10% across the board pay cut yet still purchased Alaba? I can only hope they can’t upload and are either stuck with players or sell without being able to replace. I would like to see Sevilla or Villarreal or even Betis make this league more competitive.

I think the urgency on SuperLiga was the teams at the top can hear the footsteps coming up from behind them. I said this last year and I'm even more convinced now, sometime this decade Sevilla will win the league. If Madrid actually stiffs Sergio, that's where I think he should go (Isco too).

As for the money, Alaba's getting paid absurd money for the next five years. Sure doesn't seem like the actions of a club in financial distress. I can't sort it out. Either they're slitting their own throat or they're lying about their financial situation. I suppose it could be a mix of both.

[Tony Cloninger]

I think the urgency on SuperLiga was the teams at the top can hear the footsteps coming up from behind them. I said this last year and I'm even more convinced now, sometime this decade Sevilla will win the league. If Madrid actually stiffs Sergio, that's where I think he should go (Isco too).

As for the money, Alaba's getting paid absurd money for the next five years. Sure doesn't seem like the actions of a club in financial distress. I can't sort it out. Either they're slitting their own throat or they're lying about their financial situation. I suppose it could be a mix of both.


Both RM and Barcelona are pleading lack of funds but like BOA. Too big to fail. Fear and Loathing in La Liga. They have to be in CL at all costs. I know Barcelona was approved for a loan to help with their wage Bill

[Betterread]

Top two Italian coaches return to previous successful teams. Allegri returns to Juve after a two year break. Ancelotti returns to Madrid.

[M2]

Euros start tomorrow. Who you got?

[RedTeamGo!]

Euros start tomorrow. Who you got?

Belgium

[BuckeyeRed27]

Euros start tomorrow. Who you got?

Feel like Italy will do well. If I had to bet I’d go with France.

[M2]

The Netherlands has an extremely easy group stage and possibly an easy draw to start the knockout phase (though it could draw the odd team out from the France/Portugal/Germany bracket). It's a team that's probably going to have the luxury of playing into a rhythm.

[Betterread]

France will win. When is the last time Finland made the euros? I am very curious about their squad and tactics.

[M2]

When is the last time Finland made the euros? I am very curious about their squad and tactics.

They've never qualified for a major tournament before this one. I think the plan is to get the ball to Pukki. Just noticed they've got two Minnesota United guys on the squad. That's pretty cool.

[RedTeamGo!]

Italy looked rock solid

[schmidty622]

Oh my god Erikson looks to have just died on the field in this Denmark Finland match.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Oh my god Erikson looks to have just died on the field in this Denmark Finland match.

My god. That was just horrendous. I really hope he’s ok, but damn.

[schmidty622]

Reading now they may have saved him. Pictures coming out that he was conscious while leaving the field.

[BuckeyeRed27]

UEFA just put out a statement that he has “stabilized” and is at a local hospital.

Whew…

[schmidty622]

UEFA just put out a statement that he has “stabilized” and is at a local hospital.

Whew…

The view of him when he first collapsed, eyes wide open but seemingly lifeless, was horrifying.

I need a drink.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The view of him when he first collapsed, eyes wide open but seemingly lifeless, was horrifying.

Dude it was an hour ago and I’m still shook.

[RedTeamGo!]

Wtf

[RedTeamGo!]

I watched a clip after hearing about what happened. I was coaching t-ball during match. Honestly thought he was dead the second he hit the turf. Thankful it sounds like he’s ok.

[westofyou]

It was intense, reminded me of Red Wing Jiri Fischer's collapse about 15 years ago

[RedTeamGo!]

Pandev!!!!

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ukraine Netherlands the best game so far. 5 second half goals.

[RedTeamGo!]

That 3rd goal by the Dutch was one of the worst mistakes I’ve ever seen a European team do.

[BuckeyeRed27]

That 3rd goal by the Dutch was one of the worst mistakes I’ve ever seen a European team do.

I mean all 3 Dutch goals had pretty horrendous defending mistakes. The third was absolutely the worst though.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Midfield goals are usually pretty incredible, but the Czech one this morning was one of the best I can remember.

[M2]

Midfield goals are usually pretty incredible, but the Czech one this morning was one of the best I can remember.

And the Scottish keeper may still be hiding in the net and refusing to come out.

[M2]

Poland is playing a guy whose last name is pronounced poo-hatch.

[texasdave]

Poland is playing a guy whose last name is pronounced poo-hatch.

That is the soccer equivalent of poo-holes.

[Yachtzee]

I watched a clip after hearing about what happened. I was coaching t-ball during match. Honestly thought he was dead the second he hit the turf. Thankful it sounds like he’s ok.

From the sound of it based on statements by the team doctor he was gone. Thankfully he was successfully resuscitated.

[Yachtzee]

Pandev!!!!

I know it's a day late, but I root for Austria, so suck it Pandev!

Actually, I've known a few North Macedonians in my time and they are wonderful people, so my statement is all in good fun. It was great game and the tributes to Christian Eriksen that were made after the goals were very touching.

That being said, GEMMA BURSCHEN! LET'S GO AUSTRIA!

[Betterread]

France is better than Germany(except for flopping). Starting Havertz and Gnaby as forwards was not a good decision.

[RedTeamGo!]

I know it's a day late, but I root for Austria, so suck it Pandev!

Actually, I've known a few North Macedonians in my time and they are wonderful people, so my statement is all in good fun. It was great game and the tributes to Christian Eriksen that were made after the goals were very touching.

That being said, GEMMA BURSCHEN! LET'S GO AUSTRIA!

My grandpa moved to the US when he was 17 from the area that is now North Macedonia. His siblings all stayed and his brother and all of their kids, grandkids, and great grandkids remain. My mom visited about 10 years and she absolutely loved it there. I really want to take a trip there to meet a pretty large part of my family I’ve never met! With that said, I was and am definitely rooting for North Macedonia. I didn’t think I was going to get too into it but when they statues playing and then when Pandev scored I screamed lol. Cool to see.

[M2]

Starting Havertz and Gnaby as forwards was not a good decision.

I don't know. Havertz was their most in-form guy at the end of the club season. Gnabry was their leading scorer in Euro qualification and the runup to this tournament. Werner was misfiring at a quantum level at the end of the club season. Kind of a bizarre team for Germany in that they don't have a target striker.

[RedTeamGo!]

I don't know. Havertz was their most in-form guy at the end of the club season. Gnabry was their leading scorer in Euro qualification and the runup to this tournament. Werner was misfiring at a quantum level at the end of the club season. Kind of a bizarre team for Germany in that they don't have a target striker.

Basically, they don’t have a Klose(r)

I’ll let myself out

[Betterread]

I don't know. Havertz was their most in-form guy at the end of the club season. Gnabry was their leading scorer in Euro qualification and the runup to this tournament. Werner was misfiring at a quantum level at the end of the club season. Kind of a bizarre team for Germany in that they don't have a target striker.
They had no impact. Germany needed someone to try something creative, and the closest was the gundugan dribble that earned a free kick right outside the area.
Havertz is in-form? After scoring four goals as a Fwd on a super talented squad - the same number as Pulisic, who was a sub all year?
I can understand the arguments for the other players. I don’t know why Muller has a place on the squad. There have to be some other German forwards better than him.

[Betterread]

During games he provides commentary, Taylor Twellman seems compelled to give a medical diagnosis and a strong opinion whether the player should continue playing whenever a player takes a blow to his head, face or neck. He should be discouraged from offering these frequently meaningless opinions. Not only is not medically trained, he obviously only has visual information about a collision, which limits his analysis.
It is one of the reasons why I think he is a weak commentator.

[M2]

They had no impact. Germany needed someone to try something creative, and the closest was the gundugan dribble that earned a free kick right outside the area.
Havertz is in-form? After scoring four goals as a Fwd on a super talented squad - the same number as Pulisic, who was a sub all year?
I can understand the arguments for the other players. I don’t know why Muller has a place on the squad. There have to be some other German forwards better than him.

IIRC, Havertz only became a regular starter late in the season. He got elevated when Tuchel took the reigns from Lampard. Pulisic actually got one more league start than he did. Havertz isn't a volume scorer, but he was Chelsea's most dangerous player (Kante was their best player) in the Champions League semis and final. He can create trouble in the half spaces.

Yet you touched on Germany's bigger problem: they don't have better forwards. The leading German scorer in the Bundesliga this season was Lars Stindl, age 32 and no one's idea of a high scoring player, with 14. He was followed by Muller (11), journeyman striker Max Kruse (11) and Gnabry (10). I'd also argue they should be playing Kimmich as their holding mid so he's on the ball more often.

[M2]

During games he provides commentary, Taylor Twellman seems compelled to give a medical diagnosis and a strong opinion whether the player should continue playing whenever a player takes a blow to his head, face or neck. He should be discouraged from offering these frequently meaningless opinions. Not only is not medically trained, he obviously only has visual information about a collision, which limits his analysis.
It is one of the reasons why I think he is a weak commentator.

I like him a lot for pure soccer reasons. He picks out tactical stuff better than most (e.g. did a great job of focusing on how the French were using the mid-block and counter today).

He is attuned to potential concussions because he spent two years sitting in dark rooms after this game (the play that effectively ended his career is at the 1:00 mark):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYUStc4d4ls

So, yeah, he's subsequently done a lot of work to establish concussion protocols in the sport and he errs on the side of taking head shots seriously.

[RedTeamGo!]

Also, that French player should have absolutely been taken out of the game. He was pretty clearly concussed. If this was an NFL game he would absolutely entered concussion protocol.

[dabvu2498]

During games he provides commentary, Taylor Twellman seems compelled to give a medical diagnosis and a strong opinion whether the player should continue playing whenever a player takes a blow to his head, face or neck. He should be discouraged from offering these frequently meaningless opinions. Not only is not medically trained, he obviously only has visual information about a collision, which limits his analysis.
It is one of the reasons why I think he is a weak commentator.

He was super quick to speak poorly of the medical staff in the immediate aftermath of the Eriksen incident. I’d say everyone else watching (like me) was probably thinking they did all they could. And as we know now, they genuinely saved the man’s life.

As M2 said, I get why he’s willing to speak on medical issues, but being a patient doesn’t inherently make you an expert.