2020 Bengals Thread Part 2: New Era or More of the Same?

[WVRed]

Title says it all

[KoryMac5]

Myles Garrett on Burrow
"The guy is tough, He took a lot of shots, and he bounced right back up. He was still putting deep ones on the money and he always kept his eyes downfield. He was never really worried about the rush unless it was really on him. That is better than some veteran quarterbacks.”

[KoryMac5]

I think the D can be fixed guys just have to get healthy Atkins and Daniels are big parts of the D that gave 200 yds rushing and they are missing.

The line will not be fixed this year...Burrow is getting hammered and Mixon has no room to run, anything he creates it takes all out effort for him to get 5 yds.

Good to see Sample step up after he was labled a bust.

How good is Brandon Wilson he's the ghost of Stanford Jennings back there.

[bucksfan2]

Burrow is better than I expected. Two games in a short period of time without Rookie Minicamps and without a preseason is a tall task.

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.

Their key players are getting old and look to be slowing a step. Dunlap failed to get much pressure last night, AJ looks slow, and Atkins has been unable to see the field.

Thursday night games suck.

[forfreelin04]

I think the D can be fixed guys just have to get healthy Atkins and Daniels are big parts of the D that gave 200 yds rushing and they are missing.

The line will not be fixed this year...Burrow is getting hammered and Mixon has no room to run, anything he creates it takes all out effort for him to get 5 yds.

Good to see Sample step up after he was labled a bust.

How good is Brandon Wilson he's the ghost of Stanford Jennings back there.

I'll add defensive ends to the mix here. Hubbard, Lawson, and Dunlap have been beyond pedestrian these first two weeks. That will also not be fixed during the year. Having Atkins back might help them a bit, but Dunlap seems like he's aged rapidly the past two seasons while Hubbard may be the most below average d lineman to be treated like a star in the Bengals media book.

[KoryMac5]

Burrow is better than I expected. Two games in a short period of time without Rookie Minicamps and without a preseason is a tall task.

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.

Their key players are getting old and look to be slowing a step. Dunlap failed to get much pressure last night, AJ looks slow, and Atkins has been unable to see the field.

Thursday night games suck.


Saw someone on twitter post

Rd 1 OL
Rd 2 DL
Rd 3 OL etc...right down through

Bad thing about it is they have attempted to address the line and just end up whiffing...they do have the kid from Miss St that they picked up from Miami at this point a guy working at Krogers in the meat dept would be better than what they have on the right side.

[WVRed]

Saw someone on twitter post

Rd 1 OL
Rd 2 DL
Rd 3 OL etc...right down through

Bad thing about it is they have attempted to address the line and just end up whiffing...they do have the kid from Miss St that they picked up from Miami at this point a guy working at Krogers in the meat dept would be better than what they have on the right side.

Hey!

[KoryMac5]

I'll add defensive ends to the mix here. Hubbard, Lawson, and Dunlap have been beyond pedestrian these first two weeks. That will also not be fixed during the year. Having Atkins back might help them a bit, but Dunlap seems like he's aged rapidly the past two seasons while Hubbard may be the most below average d lineman to be treated like a star in the Bengals media book.

No push in the interior means you can get guys like Hubbard, Dunlap and Lawson trying to go wide all the time...Atkins should help as will Daniels. I agree the play has been uninspired, linebackers were substandard last night with Von Bell leading us in tackles from his safety spot.

It's a mess right now...

[forfreelin04]

No push in the interior means you can get guys like Hubbard, Dunlap and Lawson trying to go wide all the time...Atkins should help as will Daniels. I agree the play has been uninspired, linebackers were substandard last night with Von Bell leading us in tackles from his safety spot.

It's a mess right now...

Indeed. A mess. Funny how the only time a Bengals D lineman was in Baker's face he threw a pick!

[WVRed]

Burrow is better than I expected. Two games in a short period of time without Rookie Minicamps and without a preseason is a tall task.

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.

Their key players are getting old and look to be slowing a step. Dunlap failed to get much pressure last night, AJ looks slow, and Atkins has been unable to see the field.

Thursday night games suck.

Two things scare me with Burrow moving forward and neither of them are in his control:

1. If the offensive line doesn’t improve, he will not make it through the season. Period.

2. If he does make it through the season he is going to be playing from behind because of how bad the defense is. If he averages anything close to what he did last night passing Tim Couch might be an accurate comparison. The difference is Couch did his damage playing for Hal Mumme/Mike Leach at Kentucky.

[bucksfan2]

One thing to note, unless he really turns it on, AJ is gone after this season. They will have a lot of cap space to go get a FA, whether they do that or not is anyone's guess.

So far Burrow has gotten very good reviews from NFL people. The first few years of a rookie QB's contract is when you can really spend money elsewhere. I do think players will want to play with Burrow.

I think the Bengals will win anywhere from 4-6 games. I think Burrow has looked promising so far and will win more than one or two games. That may put them out of the running for Sewell but they should be able to revamp their OLine in the draft.

[KoryMac5]

Two things scare me with Burrow moving forward and neither of them are in his control:

1. If the offensive line doesn’t improve, he will not make it through the season. Period.

2. If he does make it through the season he is going to be playing from behind because of how bad the defense is. If he averages anything close to what he did last night passing Tim Couch might be an accurate comparison. The difference is Couch did his damage playing for Hal Mumme/Mike Leach at Kentucky.

Burrows strengths are his curse...he is able to get away from pressure and he is very poised in the pocket, plus he wants to win. So doing what it takes to win is getting him hammered which long term is counter productive. the post game quotes are horrifying in regards to that...

[WrongVerb]

More of the same...



Laurel Pfahler
@LaurelPfahler

C.J. Uzomah tore his Achilles’ tendon and is out for the year, per Zac Taylor. #Bengals
8:17am · 18 Sep 2020

[UKFlounder]

What I just realized last night and really bothers me is that after they went 2-14 last year, they had all their draft picks, each beginning a new round, and with those 7 selections, they found exactly one guy who could start on such a bad team Just one starter in the entire draft! I know expecting a bunch of all-pros or all picks to be starters is not reasonable, but I think that getting 2-3 starters from that draft for a 2-14 team is a fair expectation.

[bucksfan2]

What I just realized last night and really bothers me is that after they went 2-14 last year, they had all their draft picks, each beginning a new round, and with those 7 selections, they found exactly one guy who could start on such a bad team Just one starter In the entire draft. I know expecting a bunch of all-pros or all picks to be starters is not reasonable, but I think that getting 2-3 starters from that draft for a 2-14 is a fair expectation.

Higgins was a bad pick IMO. But he will probably be the #3 WR come midseason.

They have two LB's who are seeing significant time on the field right now.

[Hillsdale87]

What I just realized last night and really bothers me is that after they went 2-14 last year, they had all their draft picks, each beginning a new round, and with those 7 selections, they found exactly one guy who could start on such a bad team Just one starter in the entire draft! I know expecting a bunch of all-pros or all picks to be starters is not reasonable, but I think that getting 2-3 starters from that draft for a 2-14 team is a fair expectation.

They also didn't really have much of an offseason or any preseason. It's tough to get rookies up to speed anyway, but especially under these circumstances. The 3rd and 4th round LBs are playing quite a bit in Nickel situations. Higgins is already the #3 WR. It's too early to judge the rookies.

[UKFlounder]

Fair point



They also didn't really have much of an offseason or any preseason. It's tough to get rookies up to speed anyway, but especially under these circumstances. The 3rd and 4th round LBs are playing quite a bit in Nickel situations. Higgins is already the #3 WR. It's too early to judge the rookies.

[Bob Sheed]

Seriously, when Burrow got his leg rolled on, I thought that was it for St. Joe. He even wears #9. But he got right back up.

They are going to ruin him if the online is not addressed, quickly. As in, they have 10 days to fix it. Kimo will come out of retirement to roll over on his leg.

[Roy Tucker]

Mike Thomas had some catches and earned some more playing time.

And if John Ross wasn’t a number 1 pick, he would have been long gone. He has this bizarre way of a pass getting throw his way and he just blurs through the frame with no apparent attempt at the ball. Burrow throws 61 passes and he had zero catches. Every other eligible offensive player had at least 3 catches.

I also think the Browns are loaded with talent. But they’ll only go as far as Mayfield takes them.

[KoryMac5]

Taylor on the O line and changes "Nothing is off the table, that's for sure".

I wonder if they take a look at the rookie from Kansas at some point at Guard (Price can't stay healthy, Johnson is not a Guard)...

[KoryMac5]

Mike Thomas had some catches and earned some more playing time.

And if John Ross wasn’t a number 1 pick, he would have been long gone. He has this bizarre way of a pass getting throw his way and he just blurs through the frame with no apparent attempt at the ball. Burrow throws 61 passes and he had zero catches. Every other eligible offensive player had at least 3 catches.

I also think the Browns are loaded with talent. But they’ll only go as far as Mayfield takes them.

Ross is perplexing tons of talent and blows people away when they see him practice but once a game gets rolling he disappears...I like what Thomas was doing along with Higgins.

[RiverRat13]

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.
.

This mindset is how you end up panic picking Billy Price when Frank Ragnow goes right before. There wasn't a guard or tackle worth taking at #33. Hopefully there is an offensive lineman worth taking with wherever they pick in the first round this year. But you don't force it. The better plan would be to give AJ Green's money to Joe Thuney in free agency.

[bucksfan2]

This mindset is how you end up panic picking Billy Price when Frank Ragnow goes right before. There wasn't a guard or tackle worth taking at #33. Hopefully there is an offensive lineman worth taking with wherever they pick in the first round this year. But you don't force it. The better plan would be to give AJ Green's money to Joe Thuney in free agency.

I don't know, I get what you are saying, but I don't think at the time Price was a bad pick, just never turned out. Still think he should get a shot at G this season.

Just a brief look at who went within 10 picks of Higgins you see Gross-Matos (DE), Hunt (G), and Blacklock (DT) who all played positions of need. They could have traded down, I am sure there were a lot of takers if they had entertained that.

Then when they went WR in the 2nd, Jonah Jackson was sitting there in the 3rd who could have shored up the G position but they ended up going LB (which was fine.)

I think WR is a luxury position, and the Bengals should have been pretty well off with Boyd, Green, Tate, Ross, and Thomas this season.

[Kingspoint]

Burrow is better than I expected. Two games in a short period of time without Rookie Minicamps and without a preseason is a tall task.

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.

Their key players are getting old and look to be slowing a step. Dunlap failed to get much pressure last night, AJ looks slow, and Atkins has been unable to see the field.

Thursday night games suck.

Unbelievably stupid draft with the horrible Offensive Line. 2nd and 3rd picks should have been O-Line. There were a ton of quality WR's that could be picked up with the 4th pick.

[Kingspoint]

What I just realized last night and really bothers me is that after they went 2-14 last year, they had all their draft picks, each beginning a new round, and with those 7 selections, they found exactly one guy who could start on such a bad team Just one starter in the Yepentire draft! I know expecting a bunch of all-pros or all picks to be starters is not reasonable, but I think that getting 2-3 starters from that draft for a 2-14 team is a fair expectation.

Yes. yes. yes. yes. yes.

[Kingspoint]

I don't know, I get what you are saying, but I don't think at the time Price was a bad pick, just never turned out. Still think he should get a shot at G this season.

Just a brief look at who went within 10 picks of Higgins you see Gross-Matos (DE), Hunt (G), and Blacklock (DT) who all played positions of need. They could have traded down, I am sure there were a lot of takers if they had entertained that.

Then when they went WR in the 2nd, Jonah Jackson was sitting there in the 3rd who could have shored up the G position but they ended up going LB (which was fine.)

I think WR is a luxury position, and the Bengals should have been pretty well off with Boyd, Green, Tate, Ross, and Thomas this season.

It's a bad pick if it doesn't work out. That means that their "professional" assessment is no better than some idiot internet dude. They are supposed to know things that you and I don't because they have full access to the player, their tapes, interviews with their coaches, the ability to hire their own coaches that know what they are doing. Clearly the Bengals have a problem in that area and that makes any pick that doesn't work out a bad pick, even the ones like Ross who we knew had injury issues coming in and continued to have them throughout his career. Then there's the issue of Bengals' draft picks, higher draft picks, always getting injured. That's not a coincidence.

[Kingspoint]

This mindset is how you end up panic picking Billy Price when Frank Ragnow goes right before. There wasn't a guard or tackle worth taking at #33. Hopefully there is an offensive lineman worth taking with wherever they pick in the first round this year. But you don't force it. The better plan would be to give AJ Green's money to Joe Thuney in free agency.

Actually, you do force it. Target who you want. Trade up or down to get them. Play the draft. Don't let the draft play you.

In addition, use the draft picks wisely. They don't trade them or acquire them. They went into last year's draft along with the San Diego Chargers as the only team who hadn't traded or acquired any future picks from 2019 and beyond. That to me, shows that they are just cashing all of their paychecks and that they don't give a rat's patooty. There is no slack whatsoever that Bengals' Ownership should get. The Browns need to be run out of town on a rail. They need to be tarred and feathered. They are the only ones responsible for the product on the field. Not the Coaches. Not the Players. The Owners. And the responsibility of making Ownership responsible belongs to the Fans, who are sheep, at best, in Cincinnati. Hate it all you want, but it's true. And only a sheep would say, and I quote, "there's nothing a fan can do about it".

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Bob Sheed is right.

[bucksfan2]

It's a bad pick if it doesn't work out. That means that their "professional" assessment is no better than some idiot internet dude. They are supposed to know things that you and I don't because they have full access to the player, their tapes, interviews with their coaches, the ability to hire their own coaches that know what they are doing. Clearly the Bengals have a problem in that area and that makes any pick that doesn't work out a bad pick, even the ones like Ross who we knew had injury issues coming in and continued to have them throughout his career. Then there's the issue of Bengals' draft picks, higher draft picks, always getting injured. That's not a coincidence.

I think you are simplifying the draft quite a bit. Its not a crap shoot, but its far more difficult than you make it seem. You see guys all the time who some people were very high on bust, and others with major concerns go on to have very successful careers.

The Bengals are where they are because they whiffed on too many drafts. They whiffed on Ced and Jake Fisher, they missed on Ross, they missed on Price. They tried to rebuild their line through the draft by failed at doing so.

[Kingspoint]

I think you are simplifying the draft quite a bit. Its not a crap shoot, but its far more difficult than you make it seem. You see guys all the time who some people were very high on bust, and others with major concerns go on to have very successful careers.

The Bengals are where they are because they whiffed on too many drafts. They whiffed on Ced and Jake Fisher, they missed on Ross, they missed on Price. They tried to rebuild their line through the draft by failed at doing so.

The Bengals consistently whiff on the same thing that is missing in Ownership...the desire to win. That can't recognize it because they don't have it themselves. They are bankers and accountants and every decision is made like one a banker would make (except for not protecting the investment of Burrow...it's like they are intentionally trying to lose).

[Ohayou]

Burrow is better than I expected. Two games in a short period of time without Rookie Minicamps and without a preseason is a tall task.

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.

Their key players are getting old and look to be slowing a step. Dunlap failed to get much pressure last night, AJ looks slow, and Atkins has been unable to see the field.

Thursday night games suck.

I don't mind the Higgins pick, I just didn't like that they waited until the 6th round to finally address the O-line. Damien Lewis, a guard for Burrow at LSU, was drafted towards the top of the 3rd by Seattle, and is impressing early.

The defense I saw last night looked as bad as ever. When you watch the Bengals play compared to teams like Baltimore/Kansas City, it's like they're moving in slow motion. Mayfield was untouched the entire game.

Burrow is the real deal, though, and is carrying this team right now.

[KoryMac5]

Actually, you do force it. Target who you want. Trade up or down to get them. Play the draft. Don't let the draft play you.

In addition, use the draft picks wisely. They don't trade them or acquire them. They went into last year's draft along with the San Diego Chargers as the only team who hadn't traded or acquired any future picks from 2019 and beyond. That to me, shows that they are just cashing all of their paychecks and that they don't give a rat's patooty. There is no slack whatsoever that Bengals' Ownership should get. The Browns need to be run out of town on a rail. They need to be tarred and feathered. They are the only ones responsible for the product on the field. Not the Coaches. Not the Players. The Owners. And the responsibility of making Ownership responsible belongs to the Fans, who are sheep, at best, in Cincinnati. Hate it all you want, but it's true. And only a sheep would say, and I quote, "there's nothing a fan can do about it".

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Bob Sheed is right.

I buy some of that in that there are guys on the wire they could have easily brought in to fill some holes but decided to promote from the practice squad. Running that D line out there and being gouged for 200 yds is insane, with Daniels going down we knew it would get worse. Running that O line out there to see what works and getting Burrow killed in the experiment is criminal. There are still names on the wire, Snacks Harrison and Dareus are both good run stoppers and anyone is better than the right side of our line...yet here we are.

[Bob Sheed]

Looks like Shreck is back.

https://media.giphy.com/media/ggv4eJK7WIScDuWupT/giphy.gif

[Ohayou]

Auden Tate not happy with his current role:

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/9/18/21445606/auden-tate-agent-nfl-trade-rumors-bengals-news-deiric-jackson

With the emergence of Brandon Wilson on special teams, Erickson's value is pretty low - he's brought nothing to the offense. I'd take Tate over him. Maybe now with Uzomah out for the year, they could use him as a hybrid TE/WR. Either way, he shouldn't be on the bench.

[KoryMac5]

Auden Tate not happy with his current role:

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/9/18/21445606/auden-tate-agent-nfl-trade-rumors-bengals-news-deiric-jackson

With the emergence of Brandon Wilson on special teams, Erickson's value is pretty low - he's brought nothing to the offense. I'd take Tate over him. Maybe now with Uzomah out for the year, they could use him as a hybrid TE/WR. Either way, he shouldn't be on the bench.

Beat writers talked about this on Twitter...they were shocked that Taylor did not dress Tate said the rapport between Tate and Burrow was the best story in camp.

[WVRed]

Burrow is better than I expected. Two games in a short period of time without Rookie Minicamps and without a preseason is a tall task.

Tee Higgins may end up becoming a good WR, but he should have never been that pick. They should have gone with the best T or G.

The next draft has to be T and G in that order.

Their key players are getting old and look to be slowing a step. Dunlap failed to get much pressure last night, AJ looks slow, and Atkins has been unable to see the field.

Thursday night games suck.

I had no problem with picking a WR in the second round.

1. Only two offensive linemen were taken in the second round. One was a guard who went to the Dolphins and the other was a tackle who went to the Vikings near the end of the second round.

2. This was slated to be the deepest receiver draft in the past 20 years. Six receivers went in the first and seven went in the second. Ross is likely a bust and AJ isn’t getting any younger. For value and BPA I don’t blame the Bengals going the route they did I just hope Higgins is the right receiver.

2021 needs to be the trenches, period. OL first round and DE/DT after.

[Bob Sheed]

I keep thinking of Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys as a blueprint, but I don't want Burrow hurt to achieve it.

[WVRed]

I keep thinking of Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys as a blueprint, but I don't want Burrow hurt to achieve it.

I think it will happen whether Burrow gets hurt or not. He’s got incredible potential but whatever happens this season is out of his control.

[bucksfan2]

I had no problem with picking a WR in the second round.

1. Only two offensive linemen were taken in the second round. One was a guard who went to the Dolphins and the other was a tackle who went to the Vikings near the end of the second round.

2. This was slated to be the deepest receiver draft in the past 20 years. Six receivers went in the first and seven went in the second. Ross is likely a bust and AJ isn’t getting any younger. For value and BPA I don’t blame the Bengals going the route they did I just hope Higgins is the right receiver.

2021 needs to be the trenches, period. OL first round and DE/DT after.

I think Higgins was the wrong pick. I think there were teams who were willing to trade up for the 33rd pick giving the Bengals a later 2nd rounder as well as another pick in the draft. They still could have gotten a quality 2nd round WR or drafted a bigger position of need while adding picks.

Ross is gone after this season and AJ is too, which will leave a hole in the offense. But have we heard much about Higgins from practice?

[Reds Freak]

I'm feeling win #1 in the Burrow era this week against Philly. I'll go with 27-21.

[membengal]

But have we heard much about Higgins from practice?

Had twice as many snaps as Ross last week and appears to have moved up to 3rd at WR. Green/Boyd/Higgins.

[Bob Sheed]

I think it will happen whether Burrow gets hurt or not. He’s got incredible potential but whatever happens this season is out of his control.

Burrow is good enough to win four or five just by himself.

That won't get the top pick or even top 5 most likely.Aikman was drafted, got hurt, then the Cowboys drafted like 5000 probowlers the following draft.

[Tony Cloninger]

The Cowboys were helped by the idiocy of Mike Lynn from Minnesota and his overrating the need for Herschel Walker.
That many picks for a RB who was already worn down because they thought they were closer to the SB then they really were.

[WVRed]

The Cowboys were helped by the idiocy of Mike Lynn from Minnesota and his overrating the need for Herschel Walker.
That many picks for a RB who was already worn down because they thought they were closer to the SB then they really were.

Exactly. And Joe Mixon isn’t exactly Herschel Walker.

[ScotlandRed]

Beat writers talked about this on Twitter...they were shocked that Taylor did not dress Tate said the rapport between Tate and Burrow was the best story in camp.

I thought he’d have played a much bigger part. A big body RZ receiver would help us and he made some great plays last season.

[KoryMac5]

Exactly. And Joe Mixon isn’t exactly Herschel Walker.

Teams look at backs different now too...you would not see a trade like that today.

[KoryMac5]

I would be onboard with starting the rookie from Kansas this week on the right side....he can't be worse than Johnson was at guard.

[Kingspoint]

How bad are the Bengals, specifically their Offensive and Defensive Lines?

They are so bad that they are 6.5-point underdogs to a horrible Philadelphia team that gave up 8 sacks to the Redskins and lost more Offensive Linemen in Game 2. Philadelphia has no Wide Receivers other than DeSean Jackson and Reagor. They do have excellent Tight Ends in Goedert and Ertz, but their Quarterback is doing as poorly as his Rookie season four years ago.

They are so bad, that even though the Bengals' Secondary is 3rd best in the NFL as far as fewest fantasy points given up to Wide Receivers (which is Receptions, Total Yards and Touchdowns), the 3rd best ranking is as much to do with the Chargers and Browns ability to run at will on them making it unnecessary to throw to Wide Receivers. I don't know what it is, but I imagine the Bengals are giving up more than 5.5 yards per rushing attempt, meaning that they are consistently getting into the 2nd level.

They are so bad that their pass-rush is almost non-existent. They have to be dead last in the NFL in QB pressure percentage.

Of course, I could have just said what was said back in March of 2019,..."Any Offensive Line that features (when you pay a Right Tackle $8M per year, you are featuring him) Bobby Hart as their best Lineman has got to be the worst Offensive Line in the entire NFL." That he hasn't been replaced since then and that he was even signed at the time makes the Ownership the absolute worst of any franchise in the NFL.

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I would be onboard with starting the rookie from Kansas this week on the right side....he can't be worse than Johnson was at guard.

I truly wish Bobby Hart would slip in the bathtub. The reason Hart never gets hurt is because he never puts out any effort, playing matador defense with his hands the entire game.

[Kingspoint]

Stats of the Day

Through two games, when teams run (including QB's) to Cincinnati's Left End/Contain/Back-7/8 Run Coverage (that's not behind where the Right Tackle lines up for the other team, but an actual end run outside of the Tackle/Tight End), the Bengals have the 3rd best results in the NFL giving up only 0.73 yards per attempt according to Football Outsiders.

Conversely, when teams run [including QB's to Cincinnati's Right End/Contain/Back-7/8 Run Coverage (outside the Offense's Tight End/Left Tackle)], the Bengals rank 31st in the NFL giving up 8.30 yards per attempt.

Gee, I wonder where Miles Sanders is going to be running on Sunday?

But wait, there's more.

So where do the Bengals Defensive Line rank if a runner runs behind the other three listed spots that the official NFL stats list?

Running (including QB's) at the Offense's Left Tackle (the Bengals' right Defensive End) the Bengals rank 22nd at 5.65 ypc.

Running (including QB's) at the Offense's Right Tackle (the Bengals' left Defensive End) the Bengals rank 18th at 4.54 ypc.

Running (including QB's) up the middle behind Center or either Guard (the NFL doesn't differentiate LG or RG) the Bengals rank 27th at 5.12 ypc.

When Geno comes back, I would put him over the Center's left shoulder and sometimes let him rush from the Bengal's far right side outside the other team's LT, but I'd keep him on the right side of the Bengals' line.

On a positive note, the Bengals rank 3rd best in the NFL on this Run Defense statistic where they are giving up just a 30% success rate and the NFL average is 60%:

Power Success: Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer.

You would think that there elite ability to stop the run on short yardage would translate to their ability for stuffing a run, defined as the percentage of runs where the running back is tackled at or behind the line of scrimmage. But, it doesn't. The Bengals rank 28th in this achieving the goal at only a 12% rate (the NFL average is 17%).

Cincinnati ranks 30th and 27th, respectively, on these last two Defensive Run team statistics:

Second Level Yards: Yards earned by opposing running backs against this team between 5-10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.
Open Field Yards: Yards earned by opposing running backs against this team more than 10 yards past the line of scrimmage, divided by total running back carries.

[WVRed]

Saw a mock today that had the Bengals picking 5th and taking Patrick Surtain II.

If Sewell isn’t available where would you like to see the Bengals go since this is a multi year rebuild. Wyatt Davis? Greg Rousseau?

[Kingspoint]

Saw a mock today that had the Bengals picking 5th and taking Patrick Surtain II.

If Sewell isn’t available where would you like to see the Bengals go since this is a multi year rebuild. Wyatt Davis? Greg Rousseau?

Offensive Tackle. It starts and ends right there.

[Bob Sheed]

BPA but trade down if their guy isn't there.

Well, I can dream anyway.

[Kingspoint]

Do whatever is necessary to get Sewell. Trade away as many picks/players as necessary.

[Tony Cloninger]

I just hope they have a strong option #2 and don’t panic when a team in front of them takes who they want because they seem to Telegraph their intentions. Then they panic and take a Sean Brewer or Jerome Simpson WTF type pick.

[redsfandan]

BPA but trade down if their guy isn't there.

Well, I can dream anyway.

I'd be ok with them trading down . . . IF they'd actually consider it.

[Kingspoint]

The SPIN: From bengals.com:

https://www.bengals.com/news/taylor-made-takes-keeping-o-line-intact-for-eagles

GH: How would you characterize the play of the offensive line? A lot of people are down on them. It sounds like you guys are not.

ZT: That's kind of the fun thing to do right now. We'll just continue to make the corrections. It's always one different error in the run game. We've got to get everybody in sync and we've got some explosive runs that can show up. In the pass game, really, we've faced two of the premier rushers in the NFL and our guys have really battled and given Joe a chance back there.

GH: Are you worried about the hits Joe is taking? Or is just what happens in the NFL?

ZT: I think it's a little bit overblown. There are some things not necessarily hits, pressures that may appear that way, but these guys up front are fighting their tails off.


The TRUTH: From PFF's analysis of the Cleveland game, for example, a game where they should have improved from the first game against the Chargers:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-five-takeaways-cleveland-browns-win-cincinnati-bengals-week-2-2020

BURROW'S OFFENSIVE LINE MAKES IT HARD FOR HIM TO GET ANYTHING COOKING

"Burrow had to play from behind for most of the game and was put to work as a result — he tripled Mayfield's dropbacks in the game. That means he also saw a substantial amount of pressure due to his lowly offensive line. While he did invite some pressure in himself and should’ve seen the Myles Garrett strip-sack coming, the offensive line had Burrow under pressure on 32% of his dropbacks. And when he wasn’t under pressure, he got the ball out extremely quickly. Of his 45 attempts from a clean pocket, Burrow had a time-to-throw of under 2.0 seconds on 19. And overall, he had an average time-to-throw of 2.3 seconds on those passes.

Altogether, the Bengals' offensive line combined for 40 losses on the night (pressures plus plays when the defender wins but doesn’t obtain pressure). That would be hard for any quarterback to overcome, but Burrow still wasn’t terrible, finishing with a 67.2 passing grade. It could have been better, but it also could have been much worse, and I would guess a good chunk of NFL quarterbacks would struggle significantly behind that line. He did have an underthrown ball that should have been picked on his end-zone shot to A.J. Green before the end of the first half, but Burrow notched three big-time throws in the game. His best throw happened to be his first career touchdown pass. Cincinnati ran four verticals against Cleveland’s Cover 6 defense and hit the weakside Cover 2 hole perfectly. That was the only downfield shot he hit all game.

The others he attempted weren’t so great. Still, Burrow once again was able to routinely deliver catchable targets to his receivers at the short and intermediate levels, which helped him earn an 80.7 passing grade on those throws. Those empty formations work — even with a bad offensive line. In addition, it’s impressive how much he shows up in big moments as a rookie — his final drive in Week 1 and the fourth downs against Cleveland where he went five for five are a testament to that. But if we want to see this Cincinnati offense start successfully attacking downfield, the offensive line has to give him more time and be better overall."

[RiverRat13]

Hitting multiple deep throws is the main thing I hope to see this week.

[UKFlounder]

Denial is not just a river in Africa. This explains last off-season perfectly.



The SPIN: From bengals.com:

https://www.bengals.com/news/taylor-made-takes-keeping-o-line-intact-for-eagles

GH: How would you characterize the play of the offensive line? A lot of people are down on them. It sounds like you guys are not.

ZT: That's kind of the fun thing to do right now. We'll just continue to make the corrections. It's always one different error in the run game. We've got to get everybody in sync and we've got some explosive runs that can show up. In the pass game, really, we've faced two of the premier rushers in the NFL and our guys have really battled and given Joe a chance back there.

GH: Are you worried about the hits Joe is taking? Or is just what happens in the NFL?

ZT: I think it's a little bit overblown. There are some things not necessarily hits, pressures that may appear that way, but these guys up front are fighting their tails off.


The TRUTH: From PFF's analysis of the Cleveland game, for example, a game where they should have improved from the first game against the Chargers:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-five-takeaways-cleveland-browns-win-cincinnati-bengals-week-2-2020

BURROW'S OFFENSIVE LINE MAKES IT HARD FOR HIM TO GET ANYTHING COOKING

"Burrow had to play from behind for most of the game and was put to work as a result — he tripled Mayfield's dropbacks in the game. That means he also saw a substantial amount of pressure due to his lowly offensive line. While he did invite some pressure in himself and should’ve seen the Myles Garrett strip-sack coming, the offensive line had Burrow under pressure on 32% of his dropbacks. And when he wasn’t under pressure, he got the ball out extremely quickly. Of his 45 attempts from a clean pocket, Burrow had a time-to-throw of under 2.0 seconds on 19. And overall, he had an average time-to-throw of 2.3 seconds on those passes.

Altogether, the Bengals' offensive line combined for 40 losses on the night (pressures plus plays when the defender wins but doesn’t obtain pressure). That would be hard for any quarterback to overcome, but Burrow still wasn’t terrible, finishing with a 67.2 passing grade. It could have been better, but it also could have been much worse, and I would guess a good chunk of NFL quarterbacks would struggle significantly behind that line. He did have an underthrown ball that should have been picked on his end-zone shot to A.J. Green before the end of the first half, but Burrow notched three big-time throws in the game. His best throw happened to be his first career touchdown pass. Cincinnati ran four verticals against Cleveland’s Cover 6 defense and hit the weakside Cover 2 hole perfectly. That was the only downfield shot he hit all game.

The others he attempted weren’t so great. Still, Burrow once again was able to routinely deliver catchable targets to his receivers at the short and intermediate levels, which helped him earn an 80.7 passing grade on those throws. Those empty formations work — even with a bad offensive line. In addition, it’s impressive how much he shows up in big moments as a rookie — his final drive in Week 1 and the fourth downs against Cleveland where he went five for five are a testament to that. But if we want to see this Cincinnati offense start successfully attacking downfield, the offensive line has to give him more time and be better overall."

[Tony Cloninger]

We will keep working with the group we have is Mike Brown speak that’s been regurgitated since Coslet and better by Lewis.
You can make trades sure or look for players that are not part of the They know our system network. But with no fear of failure there is no fear of being replaced.

[Kingspoint]

We will keep working with the group we have is Mike Brown speak that’s been regurgitated since Coslet and better by Lewis.
You can make trades sure or look for players that are not part of the They know our system network. But with no fear of failure there is no fear of being replaced.

There truly is no fear of failure among the players which trickles down from the Brown family.

Don't complain and collect your check is the only thing to concern yourself with.

[plantmanky]

I dont see but 2 wins max from this team, just to many wholes that were not filled by drafting a QB #1 and not trading the pick.

[Kingspoint]

I dont see but 2 wins max from this team, just to many wholes that were not filled by drafting a QB #1 and not trading the pick.

Or, not investing in that QB pick by adding the talent "that is necessary" on the O-Line for him to progress at an expected rate and to physically and mentally survive.

[WrongVerb]

When you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you do it. I'm in complete agreement that the pick should not have been traded. But I also agree that they really needed to invest in at least one or two more linemen to protect Burrow.

[Kingspoint]

When you have the chance to draft a franchise QB, you do it. I'm in complete agreement that the pick should not have been traded. But I also agree that they really needed to invest in at least one or two more linemen to protect Burrow.

Burrow was a no-brainer pick. Protecting him was also a no-brainer.

[UKFlounder]

And if any organization was known for “no-brains....”. :D


Burrow was a no-brainer pick. Protecting him was also a no-brainer.

[Kingspoint]

FYI...going into the season, PFF's Offensive Line Rankings had the Bengals listed at #31 (lest one has forgotten, there are 32 teams).

31. CINCINNATI BENGALS

Only two teams had a worse offensive line than the Bengals last season. The good news is the return of 2019 first-rounder Jonah Williams, whose lost season due to injury led to Cordy Glenn, John Jerry, Andre Smith and Fred Johnson all playing at least 130 snaps at left tackle in 2019. Williams was a polished college player who finished with the nation’s third-best overall grade (89.2) in 2018. Even in his first year of action, he should bring some stability to a position that has had issues since the departure of Andrew Whitworth after the 2016 season. The rest of the line has plenty of question marks, including right tackle Bobby Hart, who did take a step forward in pass protection last season but has still been well below average in his four seasons as a starter (109th out of 151 qualifiers on true pass sets). Hart has also ranked as a bottom-10 run-blocker in each of his last two seasons.

At left guard, both Michael Jordan and Billy Price graded in the 40s and ranked among the bottom six guards last season, and they’ll both be in the mix to start again. Xavier Su’a-Filo joins the three-way competition after posting his highest grade since 2016, a 60.1 mark that came on only 307 snaps. Jordan, Price and Su’a-Filo will battle for the two starting guard spots in what looks like one of the worst situations in the league unless two of the three improve quite a bit. Trey Hopkins earned a career-high 62.4 grade at center last year, but even that still ranked just 24th among players at the position. Even with Williams’ return, the Bengals have only marginally improved up front this offseason.

[RiverRat13]

If you believe in PFF, then you have to conclude:

1. The Bengals tackles aren't great, but aren't the disaster Bengals fans think they are.

2. The Bengals (and a lot of fans) have overrated Trey Hopkins at center.

3. The guards are absolutely a disaster.

I think the tackles would be better if they had competent guards beside them. But if there's a chance to get a great tackle, they should obviously do it. I think they will win too many games to get a Sewell, but if they don't, taking him and moving Jonah Williams inside may kill two birds with one stone.

[KoryMac5]

Goodberry released PFF ranks via twitter overall numbers are bad but pass blocking is awful...

Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

Jonah Williams 41/71 OTs
Michael Jordan 52/73 OGs
Trey Hopkins 23/35 OCs
Fred Johnson 57/73 OGs
Bobby Hart 43/71 OTs


PFF's pass block efficiency rankings...

Jonah Williams 42/71
Michael Jordan 45/72
Trey Hopkins 22/35
Fred Johnson 69/72
Bobby Hart 63/71

[Kingspoint]

Goodberry released PFF ranks via twitter overall numbers are bad but pass blocking is awful...

Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

Jonah Williams 41/71 OTs
Michael Jordan 52/73 OGs
Trey Hopkins 23/35 OCs
Fred Johnson 57/73 OGs
Bobby Hart 43/71 OTs


PFF's pass block efficiency rankings...

Jonah Williams 42/71
Michael Jordan 45/72
Trey Hopkins 22/35
Fred Johnson 69/72
Bobby Hart 63/71

Been looking for those free somewhere. Thanks for posting them.

I looked at the first column first, and saw Bobby Hart at 43 of 71, and thought, "no way", but was willing to defer to PFF as they look at every play, but then I saw the next group, which was the Pass-blocking and that's the Bobby Hart we all know and loathe (actually better than I thought, as Hart gets a borderline "D"/"D-". On my Bell Curve that (I went to a Catholic grade school. No participation trophies. No dumbing down of the curriculum to push kids through the system and not hurt their feelings. Homework every day mandatory without any time to "finish it" at school.)

My Bell Curve for "72", the number listed among the "qualified tackles, right and left" from PFF (Tackles have "71", so every number below "C" moves up by one, so a "C-" would be 47-50, and so on, making Hart a "D-", not a "D"):

1 -- A+
2-6 -- A
7 -- A-
8-9 -- B+
10-19 -- B
20-21 -- B-
22-25 -- C+
26-47 (26-46 for T's) -- C
48-51 (T47-50) -- C-
52-53 (T51-52) -- D+
54-63 (T53-62) -- D
64-65 (T63-64) -- D-
66 (T65) -- F+
67-71 (T66-70) -- F
72 (T71) -- F-

PBR = Pass Blocking Ranking
RBR = Run Blocking Ranking
OR = Overall Ranking

Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

Overall Ranking (Overall "Grades" are always halfway between their Run-blocking grades and Pass-blocking grades without consideration for number of plays of each type run, so it's easy to calculate their run-blocking rankings here, so I'll add the third column.)

Jonah Williams 41/71 OG = "C"
Michael Jordan 52/73 OG = "C-" (would be a "D+" on a 72-scale)
Trey Hopkins 23/35 OG = "C"
Fred Johnson 57/73 OG = "D"
Bobby Hart 43/71 OG = "C"

Williams, Jordan and Hart are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the OR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


PFF's Pass Block Efficiency rankings...

Jonah Williams 42/71 PBR = "C"
Michael Jordan 45/72 PBR = "C"
Trey Hopkins 22/35 PBR = "C"
Fred Johnson 69/72 PBR = "F"
Bobby Hart 63/71 PBR = "D-"

Hopkins, Jordan and Williams are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the PBR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


PFF's Run Block Efficiency rankings:

Jonah Williams 40/71 RBR = "C"
Michael Jordan 59/72 RBR = "D"
Trey Hopkins 24/35 RBR = "C-"
Fred Johnson 45/73 RBR = "C"
Bobby Hart 23/71 RBR = "C+"

And, now we know why Bobby Hart is starting,...he's our best run-blocker so far (among the "Starters", at least), and is performing better than league average. But, when you have a franchise Quarterback throwing the ball 61 times, it's not worth it to have a run-blocker whose "best" is a "C+", and whose pass-blocking is a "D-", especially when the guy next to him is an "F". Fred Johnson is at the low end of the "C" scale, while Jonah Williams is much closer to a "C-" than a "C+". It also explains my post a couple days ago which showed us giving up less than one yard per rush attempt on the right end, which would almost always involve a TE blocking. Would love to know the run-blocking and pass-blocking rankings of our TE's.


PFF's "Rankings" takes about four games into the season before there's enough of a mix of opponents to balance out the rankings. This is just two games, so a much truer assessment will be available after two more games.

[Kingspoint]

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Bengals DL Geno Atkins (shoulder) missed practice Thursday. The team's website said Atkins' looks to be out for a second straight game, along with DL Mike Daniels (groin). The Bengals' defense has been, shall we say, porous with Atkins out of the lineup. Miles Sanders and the Eagles should be able to gouge Cincy's front seven this week just as the Browns did in Week 2.

SOURCE: Bengals.com

[KoryMac5]

Is Geno Atkins this years AJ Green...Bengals expected him back this week and yet here we are once again.

[Kingspoint]

From Profootball Focus:

LB Germaine Pratt, Cincinnati Bengals

Pratt started the back half of the 2019 season for Cincinnati and had a couple of solid games, but mixed in there were a multitude of really poor ones. He ended up finishing the year with a PFF grade of 51.0, struggling in just about every facet.

As a whole, the Bengals' linebacker unit played extremely poorly in 2019, which prompted the Bengals to take three in the 2020 NFL Draft. Still, Pratt had his starting job to perhaps overcome his rookie woes. He has far from done that in his first two games.

Pratt has earned a 35.3 PFF grade so far this season, 60th of 67 qualifying off-ball linebackers. Once again, it's no particular facet that is causing the poor play, but rather the whole position — he's missed three tackles on 12 attempts and allowed all five of his targets in coverage to be caught for a 102.5 passer rating allowed. Granted, Akeem Davis-Gaither (39.8 overall grade) and Logan Wilson (27.4) have got off to similarly poor starts, so it's not as if Pratt will lose snaps anytime soon. Regardless, it doesn't seem like he's going to turn it around.

[Kingspoint]

Is Geno Atkins this years AJ Green...Bengals expected him back this week and yet here we are once again.

The medical issues surrounding the franchise continue to be inept, at best. He should have been placed on I.R. and a replacement for him added. He's being ruled out early in the week. He's clearly out for a minimum of three weeks.

[KoryMac5]

Been looking for those free somewhere. Thanks for posting them.

I looked at the first column first, and saw Bobby Hart at 43 of 71, and thought, "no way", but was willing to defer to PFF as they look at every play, but then I saw the next group, which was the Pass-blocking and that's the Bobby Hart we all know and loathe (actually better than I thought, as Hart gets a borderline "D"/"D-". On my Bell Curve that (I went to a Catholic grade school. No participation trophies. No dumbing down of the curriculum to push kids through the system and not hurt their feelings. Homework every day mandatory without any time to "finish it" at school.)

My Bell Curve for "72", the number listed among the "qualified tackles, right and left" from PFF (Tackles have "71", so every number below "C" moves up by one, so a "C-" would be 47-50, and so on, making Hart a "D-", not a "D"):

1 -- A+
2-6 -- A
7 -- A-
8-9 -- B+
10-19 -- B
20-21 -- B-
22-25 -- C+
26-47 (26-46 for T's) -- C
48-51 (T47-50) -- C-
52-53 (T51-52) -- D+
54-63 (T53-62) -- D
64-65 (T63-64) -- D-
66 (T65) -- F+
67-71 (T66-70) -- F
72 (T71) -- F-

PBR = Pass Blocking Ranking
RBR = Run Blocking Ranking
OR = Overall Ranking

Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

Overall Ranking (Overall "Grades" are always halfway between their Run-blocking grades and Pass-blocking grades without consideration for number of plays of each type run, so it's easy to calculate their run-blocking rankings here, so I'll add the third column.)

Jonah Williams 41/71 OG = "C"
Michael Jordan 52/73 OG = "C-" (would be a "D+" on a 72-scale)
Trey Hopkins 23/35 OG = "C"
Fred Johnson 57/73 OG = "D"
Bobby Hart 43/71 OG = "C"

Williams, Jordan and Hart are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the OR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


PFF's Pass Block Efficiency rankings...

Jonah Williams 42/71 PBR = "C"
Michael Jordan 45/72 PBR = "C"
Trey Hopkins 22/35 PBR = "C"
Fred Johnson 69/72 PBR = "F"
Bobby Hart 63/71 PBR = "D-"

Hopkins, Jordan and Williams are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the PBR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


PFF's Run Block Efficiency rankings:

Jonah Williams 40/71 RBR = "C"
Michael Jordan 59/72 RBR = "D"
Trey Hopkins 24/35 RBR = "C-"
Fred Johnson 45/73 RBR = "C"
Bobby Hart 23/71 RBR = "C+"

And, now we know why Bobby Hart is starting,...he's our best run-blocker so far (among the "Starters", at least), and is performing better than league average. But, when you have a franchise Quarterback throwing the ball 61 times, it's not worth it to have a run-blocker whose "best" is a "C+", and whose pass-blocking is a "D-", especially when the guy next to him is an "F". Fred Johnson is at the low end of the "C" scale, while Jonah Williams is much closer to a "C-" than a "C+". It also explains my post a couple days ago which showed us giving up less than one yard per rush attempt on the right end, which would almost always involve a TE blocking. Would love to know the run-blocking and pass-blocking rankings of our TE's.


PFF's "Rankings" takes about four games into the season before there's enough of a mix of opponents to balance out the rankings. This is just two games, so a much truer assessment will be available after two more games.

Not sure why they haven’t looked to Hart to play Guard...he is by all accounts a good run blocker and Johnson by size looks to be better suited to play tackle. To me the common denominator is Turner...

[Kingspoint]

Not sure why they haven’t looked to Hart to play Guard...he is by all accounts a good run blocker and Johnson by size looks to be better suited to play tackle. To me the common denominator is Turner...

Turner has done nothing other than to support fans' opinions since Day 1 that he is unqualified for his job.

[Boss-Hog]

Not sure why they haven’t looked to Hart to play Guard...he is by all accounts a good run blocker and Johnson by size looks to be better suited to play tackle. To me the common denominator is Turner...I could be wrong, but I believe Hart is traditionally one of the worst graded run blocking tackles in the league, at least according to PFF.

[RiverRat13]

To me the common denominator is Turner...

If Taylor doesn't last long, I hope the lesson the Bengals take is to find a head coach who has a concrete plan of his coaching staff. It was good that the team didn't force anyone but Darrin Simmons on Taylor, but Zac didn't exactly light it up with who he hired. I could see Taylor firing some staff members if they go 4-12, but he's still going to have problems attracting any quality assistants because he will be perceived to be on the hot seat.

[Kingspoint]

I could be wrong, but I believe Hart is traditionally one of the worst graded run blocking tackles in the league, at least according to PFF.

His "C-" run-blocking grade through two games is something we aren't accustomed to. He was always young enough to improve in this area, but watching him try to pass-block is scary. There are plays where he doesn't even touch a defender and stands there watching two guys go around him untouched to the quarterback.

[KoryMac5]

I could be wrong, but I believe Hart is traditionally one of the worst graded run blocking tackles in the league, at least according to PFF.

Hart grades out 63rd out of 71 tackles on his side in pass blocking his run blocking is what moves his overall ranking up...


I think what some of these numbers also show is how hard it is to develop good offensive lineman these days...I don't see Turner being the guy to turn this unit around.

[KoryMac5]

His "C-" run-blocking grade through two games is something we aren't accustomed to. He was always young enough to improve in this area, but watching him try to pass-block is scary. There are plays where he doesn't even touch a defender and stands there watching two guys go around him untouched to the quarterback.

Shows how bad things are when his only redeeming quality is C- in run blocking...dear lord.

[Boss-Hog]

His "C-" run-blocking grade through two games is something we aren't accustomed to. He was always young enough to improve in this area, but watching him try to pass-block is scary. There are plays where he doesn't even touch a defender and stands there watching two guys go around him untouched to the quarterback.I wouldn't draw too many conclusions through two games when there's his entire career to consider. Maybe he has marginally improved there, but I think it's more likely he finishes with a bottom tier grade in that area over the course of an entire season. We both know he'll be out there for 16 games if healthy, as the Bengals clearly think they know something about him the fans and the rest of the NFL don't.

[Kingspoint]

I wouldn't draw too many conclusions through two games when there's his entire career to consider. Maybe he has marginally improved there, but I think it's more likely he finishes with a bottom tier grade in that area over the course of an entire season. We both know he'll be out there for 16 games if healthy, as the Bengals clearly think they know something about him the fans and the rest of the NFL don't.

When they signed him the first time, I screamed. When they resigned him, I felt like I got kicked in the gut.

[Kingspoint]

Bettors are jumping on the Joe Burrow bandwagon (yes, apparently there is a bandwagon for Burrow) and jumping off of anything to do with Carson Wentz.

The line has dropped from Bengals +6.5 to Bengals + 4.5. A 2.0-point swing is a ton in betting circles.

Have they not seen the D-Line and O-Line of the Bengals?

Last time I looked, Miles Sanders was excellent last week.

And, then there's the Bengals' Kicker. Yeah, he made some kicks last week right down the pipe, but he was kicking for his job. He's just as likely to miss one or two he should make this week (as he grabs his leg, but remembers in the press conference which one it is before he speaks).

Would a win be nice? I really could care less if the Bengals win. All I care about are two things: The Offensive Line improves dramatically and Joe Burrow doesn't get hurt and Joe Burrow gets hit less than 7 times when he's not running with the ball. OK, that's three things.

[Bob Sheed]

I think the Eagles and Bengals match up pretty evenly, honestly. I expect a close game, Eagles favorited because they are at home.

Vegas usually doesn't get it wrong.

All it would take is one or two in-game unknowns to swing in the Bengals favor and they'll walk out with a W.

[Bob Sheed]

If Atkins and Green return to form, this team looks like a playoff team to me believe it or not.

Bad offensive lines typically get better as the season goes on. Burrow should make leaps and bounds weekly, assuming he can stay healthy.

If they can squeak out a few wins in the 1st half of the season, they might be a sleeper pick in the 2nd half.

[Kingspoint]

I think the Eagles and Bengals match up pretty evenly, honestly. I expect a close game, Eagles favorited because they are at home.

Vegas usually doesn't get it wrong.

All it would take is one or two in-game unknowns to swing in the Bengals favor and the'yll walk out with a W.

That's my point. Vegas doesn't usually get it wrong (except for Weeks 1 & 2 every year). Favorites have covered on 65% of the games in Weeks 1 & 2 this year (or was it Underdogs that covered...either way, 65% all on one side is a very large number through the first two weeks). Bengals were 6.5-point underdogs for the first line. That's probably more accurate.

[KoryMac5]

Hearing rumors Ross will be inactive this week...

[CTA513]

Hearing rumors Ross will be inactive this week...

If hes a healthy scratch then they should just cut him.

[Bob Sheed]

Mahommes, TJ Watt, Watson, all were picked after John Glass.

Duke.
Tobin.

Tired of that Friends and Family Club fool.

[KoryMac5]

Mahommes, TJ Watt, Watson, all were picked after John Glass.

Duke.
Tobin.

Tired of that Friends and Family Club fool.

I will forever scratch my head on the Ross pick...

He automatically went into Marvin's dog house as he was not the pick Marvin wanted to make.

A lot of folks missed on Mahommes though...but man looking at that draft you just shake your head at what could have been.

[WVRed]

Bettors are jumping on the Joe Burrow bandwagon (yes, apparently there is a bandwagon for Burrow) and jumping off of anything to do with Carson Wentz.

The line has dropped from Bengals +6.5 to Bengals + 4.5. A 2.0-point swing is a ton in betting circles.

Have they not seen the D-Line and O-Line of the Bengals?

Last time I looked, Miles Sanders was excellent last week.

And, then there's the Bengals' Kicker. Yeah, he made some kicks last week right down the pipe, but he was kicking for his job. He's just as likely to miss one or two he should make this week (as he grabs his leg, but remembers in the press conference which one it is before he speaks).

Would a win be nice? I really could care less if the Bengals win. All I care about are two things: The Offensive Line improves dramatically and Joe Burrow doesn't get hurt and Joe Burrow gets hit less than 7 times when he's not running with the ball. OK, that's three things.

Add not throwing 60+ times a game because the Eagles jump out to an early lead and the Bengals are playing catch-up. There’s four things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WVRed]

I think the Eagles and Bengals match up pretty evenly, honestly. I expect a close game, Eagles favorited because they are at home.

Vegas usually doesn't get it wrong.

All it would take is one or two in-game unknowns to swing in the Bengals favor and they'll walk out with a W.

Are the Eagles allowing fans? If not, home field advantage does not matter.

[Bob Sheed]

Are the Eagles allowing fans? If not, home field advantage does not matter.

Not true. Travel, hotels, etc. Not the same as a home game.

[RiverRat13]

Slay will take out AJ today. Opportunity for Boyd and Higgins to have big days.

[Kingspoint]

Why put the ball in the air against the Bengals? WJIII will shut down DeSean Jackson today. I know it's tempting to throw to Goedert and Ertz against the Bengals' LB's, but running on the Bengals are free plays.

Nice job by the Bengals' Defense and Logan Wilson and Carlos Dunlap on that play for the interception.

- - - Updated - - -


Slay will take out AJ today. Opportunity for Boyd and Higgins to have big days.

...and our new #1 TE, Mr. Drew Sample. "Sally-Lou!"

[Playadlc]

Gotta start max protecting or something. Burrow never gets a clean pocket. It’s tough to watch.

[Kingspoint]

WJIII had the coverage there, but Wentz made a perfect throw for the 11-yd gain to DeSean.

[Reds Fanatic]

Twice Bengals have got to Wentz and can’t get him down

[Kingspoint]

Twice Bengals have got to Wentz and can’t get him down

This is a huge improvement.

[Kingspoint]

This is a huge improvement.

...and there 'ya go.

SACK!

[Reds Fanatic]

Finally Hubbard on the sack

[Kingspoint]

As long as we don't give up touchdowns we should win this game.

[Kingspoint]

Wilson is the Bengals' best Offensive weapon. They need to tell him to return every kick, not tell him not to do so if it is kicked into the endzone.

[Reds Fanatic]

Offense looks awful so far as the always bad Fred Johnson with a big penalty

[Reds Fanatic]

Lawson with the sack. Offense has to get going we might have a chance here

[Kingspoint]

If Lawson can take a step forward like he's doing today and Hubbard makes some plays like he is, then the D-Line can solidify this Defense, especially when Geno returns. It will also take a lot of pressure off of our young LB's.

[Reds Fanatic]

Oh God no

[Kingspoint]

Concussion at worst....probably lost his wind.

[Reds Fanatic]

Sample with a whiff block there it is a matte of time before we get Burrow killed

[Playadlc]

Keep going empty with this garbage line.

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals' Offensive Line Coach continues to prove his worth.


COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!!!

[Bob Sheed]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Reds Fanatic]

The Bengals' Offensive Line Coach continues to prove his worth.


COMPLETELY WORTHLESS!!!

Yes an awful coach and even worse person. Why Taylor can’t see that is beyond me I think they both need to go

[RiverRat13]

Did Zac learn from Sean McVay to use your TE to block a DE 1 on 1?

[KoryMac5]

Everything is hard for this offense

[Kingspoint]

Nice return for Erickson!

Tack on a personal foul. 31 total yards on the return.

Bengals in position to tie or take the lead.

[Kingspoint]

Did Zac learn from Sean McVay to use your TE to block a DE 1 on 1?

Unbelievable. Grade School coaching.

[Reds Fanatic]

Yes an awful coach and even worse person. Why Taylor can’t see that is beyond me I think they both need to go

Another false start

[Kingspoint]

Got to go 5-wide. This is a joke.

[RiverRat13]

Let's bag the rollouts, please.

[Kingspoint]

Inept, but I'll take the tie and it looks like Taylor is resigned to go 5-wide the rest of the first half. He'll see if a halftime adjustment can be made with the line, but as we all know, the only adjustment that can be made is to fire the O-Line Coach.

Thankfully, the Eagles have been stupid enough to not run the ball exclusively, keeping the Bengals in this game.

[Bob Sheed]

2 minute drill coming up.

[Reds Fanatic]

Tate with a nice catch there

[UKFlounder]

They got the TD

Nice drive

[Reds Fanatic]

TD pass to Higgins Bengals take the lead

[Playadlc]

Great drive.

[Reds Fanatic]

Of course Bullock immediately puts them in bad position with a kickoff out of bounds

[ScotlandRed]

Can barely buy a first the whole half yet when we’re inside the drill I believed we were always going to march the field. Burrow is so so good under pressure it’s beautiful to watch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Someone totally blew a coverage there

[UKFlounder]

Another game lost at the end of the first half

Disgusting!

[Playadlc]

I have no words.

[RiverRat13]

LOL. Take a timeout to give that up.

[ScotlandRed]

Lol what a joke

[CTA513]

Just cut Ross and Bullock already.

[RiverRat13]

All of that set up by Bullock kicking it out of bounds.

[KoryMac5]

Of course Bullock immediately puts them in bad position with a kickoff out of bounds

The calf is probably still tender...

- - - Updated - - -


Just cut Ross and Bullock already.

Fire Turner and Lou as well...

[Reds Fanatic]

Extra painful to watch Elliot do that while we are stuck with Fat Randy

[Playadlc]

16-10 Eagles.

I kinda like Burrow’s chances here. I think we pull this out.

[ScotlandRed]

What on earth was that horrendous illegal contact penalty. Completely made up call.

[Playadlc]

What on earth was that horrendous illegal contact penalty. Completely made up call.

I thought it was a weak call as well.

[Kingspoint]

Gee. Who woulda thunk it? The halftime adjustment to the Bengals' O-Line didn't work. Abandon it now before we go down by two scores and go 5-wide every play going forward.

[Reds Fanatic]

Price has taken over for Fred Johnson at RG

[KoryMac5]

When Burrow gets in rhythm its pretty awesome to watch...unfortunately this line does not allow that.

[Kingspoint]

Price has taken over for Fred Johnson at RG

I imagine that was the halftime adjustment. Had to replace him (and Hart), but at least Johnson. Price needs to be cut if he can't do better than Johnson.

- - - Updated - - -


When Burrow gets in rhythm its pretty awesome to watch...unfortunately this line does not allow that.

Rhythm behind this line is: One-one-thousand, Two-one-thousand, "GET RID OF IT!"

[KoryMac5]

I imagine that was the halftime adjustment. Had to replace him (and Hart), but at least Johnson. Price needs to be cut if he can't do better than Johnson.

- - - Updated - - -



Rhythm behind this line is: One-one-thousand, Two-one-thousand, "GET RID OF IT!"

Price is never healthy and therefore in the dog house...he is up over 300 pounds from last year to play guard.

[Reds Fanatic]

Another TD to Higgins!

[RiverRat13]

Joe Burrow good.

[KoryMac5]

That is why you draft a Tee Higgins...

[Kingspoint]

Price is never healthy and therefore in the dog house...he is up over 300 pounds from last year to play guard.

Never worth a penny of the money he got from us. In fact, cost us the asset of a 1st Rd pick.

- - - Updated - - -


That is why you draft a Tee Higgins...

My mother could have caught that, and she's dead. Ross would have dropped it.

[Kingspoint]

Another pick.

The Secondary has been fine this season.

I'm fine with Joe A. for all of this year. Then make a thorough evaluation.

[KoryMac5]

Never worth a penny of the money he got from us. In fact, cost us the asset of a 1st Rd pick.

- - - Updated - - -



My mother could have caught that, and she's dead. Ross would have dropped it.

Given our Red Zone issues having a target like Higgins is great...big kid who can go up and get it.

[RiverRat13]

I hate fades. You see on those two throws why Tate is a role player. He can't get separation.

[Playadlc]

Huge stop for the Eagles there. Ugh.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow a Wentz overthrow or that was another disaster

[RiverRat13]

Wow a Wentz overthrow or that was another disasterYep. That should have been a touchdown.

[Playadlc]

Got a break there but I’ll take it.

It’ll be interesting to see how aggressive we are here.

[Reds Freak]

A seven minute touchdown drive would be fun right now. This Eagles team isn't good, golden opportunity for win #1 here.

[Playadlc]

BTW, I’m sticking to this thread because every other Bengals game thread I’ve found online is a complete disaster.

[Reds Fanatic]

What a play by Burrow

[KoryMac5]

Like the 3 wide outs we have...Higgins, Green, and Boyd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hopefully this plays stands

[RiverRat13]

A seven minute touchdown drive would be fun right now. This Eagles team isn't good, golden opportunity for win #1 here.I'll take a quick touchdown. I don't think the Eagles can score 11 points with what's left in the game.

[ScotlandRed]

Burrow is absolutely incredible, even if this gets wiped out, still an unbelievable play.

[Reds Fanatic]

What al play to Gio!!!

[Playadlc]

Gio!!!!

[Kingspoint]

Gio!!!!

Best first name in Bengaldom.

[KoryMac5]

Stache Power!

[KoryMac5]

Be nice to see Green step up here...Mixon has 0 room

[Kingspoint]

Like the 3 wide outs we have...Higgins, Green, and Boyd.

Like it even more with the options of catching passes by Mixon, Gio, Uzomah and Sample.

[KoryMac5]

5 sacks on the day...I worry he will eclipse 60 this season.

[Reds Fanatic]

All up to the defense now 7 point lead with 3 minutes left

[Reds Freak]

Man you gotta get the ball in the endzone when you have it first down at the four. Geez.

[Reds Fanatic]

That is a awful call

[Reds Fanatic]

Just awful another pass interference

[Playadlc]

Sloppy right now.

[Kingspoint]

Bengals have only given up the one touchdown today...on a short field from Bullock and a blown coverage. Otherwise the Defense has played well.

[Kingspoint]

Two Touchdowns, including a game-winner, for Tyler Kroft today.

[KoryMac5]

Two Touchdowns, including a game-winner, for Tyler Kroft today.

Kroft has good hands made a nice catch in the endzone on the 2nd with 15 secs left.

[Reds Fanatic]

This team just makes you sick

[Kingspoint]

Plenty of time for Bullock to redeem himself.

[UKFlounder]

That’s the clutch defense the Bengals love so much - in each half

[WVRed]

Is it time to call Sam Hubbard a bust?

[Reds Freak]

That’s the clutch defense the Bengals love so much - in each half

Definitely disappointing effort there but I put some of that on the offense for not punching it in on the drive before when they had it at the four.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nice punt but I have no faith in this defense getting a stop

[Kingspoint]

Nice punt but I have no faith in this defense getting a stop

I do.

[Kingspoint]

Good field position. Need two first downs.

[WVRed]

Time to cut Price too.

[Kingspoint]

If we lose, for the third time in a row it will be the fault of the Coach of the Bengals' Offensive Line.

[Reds Fanatic]

It is over, Eages will score here

[Playadlc]

If we lose, for the third time in a row it will be the fault of the Coach of the Bengals' Offensive Line.

Meh. This offensive line has no talent.

Billy Price is playing RG and he’ll be out of the NFL next year.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ball game

[Kingspoint]

Meh. This offensive line has no talent.

Billy Price is playing RG and he’ll be out of the NFL next year.

It's the Coach who they believed could do something with this lack of talent.

[Tony Cloninger]

It's the Coach who they believed could do something with this lack of talent.

All he’s doing is Brown speak. We are not signing you better OL so deal with what you have and be positive to the press about it.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nice stop there after a huge holding penalty took them out of FG range

[Kingspoint]

Knew it all the time we'd hold 'em.

[Tony Cloninger]

Is it time to call Sam Hubbard a bust?

It’s only the 3rd game and he was very good last year.

Of course this could be the 3rd year plateau a lot of Bengals defensive players seem to hit and stall.

[Reds Fanatic]

If this line coach is not gone tomorrow along with Hart, Price, Johnson, I don’t care what we have to do the rest of the season eventually incompetence has to be dealt with

[Hillsdale87]

Is it time to call Sam Hubbard a bust?

Sam Hubbard has a sack and TFL today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Reds Fanatic]

You have to catch that

[Reds Fanatic]

8 sacks

[Kingspoint]

Offensive Line is a complete disaster. Burrow should refuse to take the field. He never should have agreed to be a Bengal.

[Playadlc]

Billy Price is the worst 1st round pick in the history of the organization.

[Kingspoint]

Billy Price is the worst 1st round pick in the history of the organization.

Yet, he's still here. The problem isn't Price. The Problem is the Brown Family.

[KoryMac5]

If this line coach is not gone tomorrow along with Hart, Price, Johnson, I don’t care what we have to do the rest of the season eventually incompetence has to be dealt with

You drafted the kid from kansas for a reason he can't be any worse than those 3...

[Playadlc]

After that last offensive play Price should never take another snap for the Bengals. That was the most embarrassing **** I’ve ever seen.

[WVRed]

Billy Price is the worst 1st round pick in the history of the organization.

Never understood how he flamed out. I understand they reached after Ragnow went before them but I didn’t think there was much separation between the two.

[KoryMac5]

Burrow 14 sacks through 3 games...that's a really scary pace

- - - Updated - - -


Never understood how he flamed out. I understand they reached after Ragnow went before them but I didn’t think there was much separation between the two.

He's had a ton of issues with his feet and ankles and never got out of the dog house...

[Kingspoint]

This is a chipshot for Elliott.

[Todd Gack]

After that last offensive play Price should never take another snap for the Bengals. That was the most embarrassing **** I’ve ever seen.

Let me guess, it was some type of stunt?

[The Operator]

This has to be one of the worst offensive lines in history.

Burrow won’t survive half the season at this pace. God, Mike Brown sucks so bad.

[Kingspoint]

The Philadelphia Bengals.

[WVRed]

The Philadelphia Bengals.

Who wants to lose this game the most?

It’ll be a tie.

[Playadlc]

You have to go for this if you’re Philly.

What a soft move.

[UKFlounder]

What a cluster(blank) end to the game

[Kingspoint]

I wish the Enquirer had some sportswriters with balls.

[UKFlounder]

2 cowardly coaches there. Playing not to lose.

[KoryMac5]

The only thing that makes this team watchable is Burrow and even that is getting scary...

[Reds Fanatic]

This has to be one of the worst offensive lines in history.

Burrow won’t survive half the season at this pace. God, Mike Brown sucks so bad.

Seriously something has to be done. I have been a Bengals fan 40 plus years and I have never been this mad. To put the future of the franchise behind this line is criminal. Hell at this point I would start Finley if you are going to keep putting total bums like Hart, Price and Johnson in front of him. And the offensive line coach needs to be fired .

[KoryMac5]

2 cowardly coaches there. Playing not to lose.

The line doesn't allow one to have much confidence...

[The Operator]

8 sacks for 56 yards.

They should have just rolled with a backup this year and let Burrow carry a clipboard if this was their plan for the offensive line.


They’re gonna David Carr this kid.

[Reds Fanatic]

I wish the Enquirer had some sportswriters with balls.

You are so right on this all the Bengals writers need to be hammering Zac on this line. I wish we could borrow the NY media for a week they would lose their minds

[UKFlounder]

Absolutely true



The line doesn't allow one to have much confidence...

[KoryMac5]

Bengals get Jax and then Baltimore...I may rest Burrow vs Baltimore.

[RiverRat13]

These were 3 of the more winnable games on the schedule.

[CTA513]

You have to go for this if you’re Philly.

What a soft move.

punting the ball just so you don't go 0-3 is something I would expect during the Marvin Lewis era.

[RiverRat13]

Also, I'd be furious if I was an Eagles fan with how they played the last 90 seconds of overtime.

[Playadlc]

punting the ball just so you don't go 0-3 is something I would expect during the Marvin Lewis era.

Funny enough, he had this exact situation in Cleveland one year. They were in no mans land and Palmer scrambled for a 1st on 4th and 10 or something. Bengals went on to win the game.

[ScotlandRed]

Purely eye test here but has Jonah Williams been pretty good? Seems like majority of the pressure is coming from the right side or through the middle.

[Playadlc]

Purely eye test here but has Jonah Williams been pretty good? Seems like majority of the pressure is coming from the right side or through the middle.

I think Jonah will be okay. It is the right side. Price shouldn’t be on an NFL roster and Hart is Hart.

[Reds Fanatic]

Purely eye test here but has Jonah Williams been pretty good? Seems like majority of the pressure is coming from the right side or through the middle.

Yes Jonah is fine. The line problems are pretty much on the right side

[Reds Fanatic]

Zac’s answer on the line after the game is we are trying to figure it out.

It is becoming obvious Zac has to go he has no idea how to fix this and won’t change a thing

[Ohayou]

The Bengals have had their fair share of draft flops, but letting Whitworth go was one of the worst moves in franchise history. It's a crying shame that he won't end his career in Cincy.

[Tony Cloninger]

Burrow 14 sacks through 3 games...that's a really scary pace

- - - Updated - - -



He's had a ton of issues with his feet and ankles and never got out of the dog house...


And he never had them in college?

[Stray]

I've seen more than enough to know we have something special in Burrow. At this point the only goal this franchise should have is figuring out how to protect him. And if they can't do it, he shouldn't play. His body isn't going to hold up taking the hits he takes every week.

[Bob Sheed]

They are going to ruin Burrow.

If they won't address the line, they should shut Burrow down and try again next year.

[Bob Sheed]

Defense is serviceable. But you could have hall of fame RBs, WRs and QB and you'll fail miserably without an offensive line.

It's truly criminal how they are doing Burrow.

[KoryMac5]

Zac’s answer on the line after the game is we are trying to figure it out.

It is becoming obvious Zac has to go he has no idea how to fix this and won’t change a thing

Starting right guard is in a boot...Johnson is not a guard and Price is not an NFL player...the only other option is the kid from Kansas or Shaq Calhoun who they picked up from Miami.

[KoryMac5]

And he never had them in college?

Not sure...

I know he had severe plantar fasciaitis for the majority of last season as well as some ankle issues. Supposedly worked in PT on improving his hips as it was effecting his low back. If you look at his play against Cox he gets steam rolled and I don't think he can anchor really well as his base isn't solid.

[RiverRat13]

Defense is serviceable.

That was a bad Eagles offense. And they still gave up 23 points.

[WVRed]

The line doesn't allow one to have much confidence...

Agreed.

Can’t speak for the Eagles but had Burrow dropped back and attempted to pass I honestly believe he would have been on his butt in the end zone for the 9th time in the game for a safety and the Bengals would be 0-3 instead of 0-2-1.

If the line doesn’t kill Burrow, getting behind in games and having to throw 60 times like last week will destroy his arm moving forward. They still get the Steelers and Ravens twice among others.

[Ohayou]

Just a random note, David Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie season.

[WVRed]

Just a random note, David Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie season.

David Carr also played on an expansion team.

I’d be curious how many times Luck was sacked. If anything I’d compare Burrow to Luck at this point.

[KoryMac5]

Just a random note, David Carr was sacked 76 times his rookie season.

Shows how much of a statue Carr is/was...but man I would set the over/under for Burrow at 60.

[schmidty622]

Trade Burrow now for a first round pick next year? His stock is probably as high as it's going to be behind this line. Trade him, tank for Trevor, and then draft / sign a new o-line.

Yes I am joking... but man the Bengals are not treating this kid well.

[Redhook]

Trade Burrow now for a first round pick next year? His stock is probably as high as it's going to be behind this line. Trade him, tank for Trevor, and then draft / sign a new o-line.

Yes I am joking... but man the Bengals are not treating this kid well.

Anyone outside of the Bengals organization knew it was going to be a disaster. Hopefully, he stays healthy.

Burrow is probably worth 5 first round picks. And, I’m not even sure that would be enough.

[Kingspoint]

From Profootball Focus:

"The Bengals did not help themselves, either, as they were called for two pass interference penalties on the Eagles' final drive of the game, thrusting Wentz and the Philadelphia offense into prime striking distance. The offensive line allowed 12 pressures on 52 reps in pass protection but surrendered three sacks and four quarterback hits.

Burrow was charged with five more sacks, as he often held onto the ball too long and either checked it down or threw it away. After looking like a deer in headlights in the first quarter, Burrow was able to bring his swagger back the rest of the game. He had zero turnover worthy plays and completed 70% of his passes for 312 yards and two end-zone dimes to fellow rookie Tee Higgins."

[Kingspoint]

I think Jonah will be okay. It is the right side. Price shouldn’t be on an NFL roster and Hart is Hart.

Put Jonah on the right side and draft Sewell.

[Kingspoint]

Purely eye test here but has Jonah Williams been pretty good? Seems like majority of the pressure is coming from the right side or through the middle.
Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
Goodberry released PFF ranks via twitter overall numbers are bad but pass blocking is awful...

Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

Jonah Williams 41/71 OTs
Michael Jordan 52/73 OGs
Trey Hopkins 23/35 OCs
Fred Johnson 57/73 OGs
Bobby Hart 43/71 OTs


PFF's pass block efficiency rankings...

Jonah Williams 42/71
Michael Jordan 45/72
Trey Hopkins 22/35
Fred Johnson 69/72
Bobby Hart 63/71
Been looking for those free somewhere. Thanks for posting them.

I looked at the first column first, and saw Bobby Hart at 43 of 71, and thought, "no way", but was willing to defer to PFF as they look at every play, but then I saw the next group, which was the Pass-blocking and that's the Bobby Hart we all know and loathe (actually better than I thought, as Hart gets a borderline "D"/"D-". On my Bell Curve that (I went to a Catholic grade school. No participation trophies. No dumbing down of the curriculum to push kids through the system and not hurt their feelings. Homework every day mandatory without any time to "finish it" at school.)

My Bell Curve for "72", the number listed among the "qualified tackles, right and left" from PFF (Tackles have "71", so every number below "C" moves up by one, so a "C-" would be 47-50, and so on, making Hart a "D-", not a "D"):

1 -- A+
2-6 -- A
7 -- A-
8-9 -- B+
10-19 -- B
20-21 -- B-
22-25 -- C+
26-47 (26-46 for T's) -- C
48-51 (T47-50) -- C-
52-53 (T51-52) -- D+
54-63 (T53-62) -- D
64-65 (T63-64) -- D-
66 (T65) -- F+
67-71 (T66-70) -- F
72 (T71) -- F-

PBR = Pass Blocking Ranking
RBR = Run Blocking Ranking
OR = Overall Ranking

Bengals OL ranks according to PFF

Overall Ranking (Overall "Grades" are always halfway between their Run-blocking grades and Pass-blocking grades without consideration for number of plays of each type run, so it's easy to calculate their run-blocking rankings here, so I'll add the third column.)

Jonah Williams 41/71 OG = "C"
Michael Jordan 52/73 OG = "C-" (would be a "D+" on a 72-scale)
Trey Hopkins 23/35 OG = "C"
Fred Johnson 57/73 OG = "D"
Bobby Hart 43/71 OG = "C"

Williams, Jordan and Hart are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the OR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


PFF's Pass Block Efficiency rankings...

Jonah Williams 42/71 PBR = "C"
Michael Jordan 45/72 PBR = "C"
Trey Hopkins 22/35 PBR = "C"
Fred Johnson 69/72 PBR = "F"
Bobby Hart 63/71 PBR = "D-"

Hopkins, Jordan and Williams are all on the low end of the "C" scale on the PBR, much closer to a "C-" than a "C+"


PFF's Run Block Efficiency rankings:

Jonah Williams 40/71 RBR = "C"
Michael Jordan 59/72 RBR = "D"
Trey Hopkins 24/35 RBR = "C-"
Fred Johnson 45/73 RBR = "C"
Bobby Hart 23/71 RBR = "C+"

And, now we know why Bobby Hart is starting,...he's our best run-blocker so far (among the "Starters", at least), and is performing better than league average. But, when you have a franchise Quarterback throwing the ball 61 times, it's not worth it to have a run-blocker whose "best" is a "C+", and whose pass-blocking is a "D-", especially when the guy next to him is an "F". Fred Johnson is at the low end of the "C" scale, while Jonah Williams is much closer to a "C-" than a "C+". It also explains my post a couple days ago which showed us giving up less than one yard per rush attempt on the right end, which would almost always involve a TE blocking. Would love to know the run-blocking and pass-blocking rankings of our TE's.


PFF's "Rankings" takes about four games into the season before there's enough of a mix of opponents to balance out the rankings. This is just two games, so a much truer assessment will be available after two more games.

[Stray]

Really though, if we cannot protect Burrow he shouldn't play. It's borderline criminal to keep running the franchise out like this every week. I mean we all know Steelers week is coming sooner or later, and of course they're gonna add a little or a lot to every hit they get, penalty or not.

If we're just that bad that we can't protect our best player, then let's have him wait till we can. This season does not matter. The next 10 do.

[Bob Sheed]

18 QB hits on Burrow yesterday.

18.

In one game.

Shameful.

[Bob Sheed]

The other thing that baffles me, is more of a human nature thing.

So if you are a guy like Bobby Hart, Fred Johnson, Billy Price. And you have spent most of your life being among the best at your job, how do you hold your head up and go to a job where not only are you among the WORST at what you do, but your poor job performance actually causes direct pain to the one person you're supposed to protect?

I mean, I know the checks cash, sure. But imagine being one of them, getting up this morning, and looking forward to watching game film of their horrid performance, to be scrutinized in front of your bosses and peers. And imagine getting used to this.

I couldn't do it. It would be one thing if their poor performance only hurt themselves. But this is akin to being a really bad nurse that leaves terrible bruises on their patients when giving shots, a fork lift driver that keeps knocking boxes on top of other employees, etc.

It's perpetual incompantance. I don't know how they even get out of bed in the morning and live that life.