NBA Post Bubble - Draft & Offseason

[M2]

I'd love that Harry Giles signing in Portland if they didn't sign 8 more forwards this season.

Seems like a one-year trial. He won't get minutes, but maybe he impresses them enough to keep him around next season after Kanter's contract runs out and if they don't feel like spending more to keep Collins around.

[KoryMac5]

I like Stein going back to the Mavs especially with no Porzigas for a few a month or 2.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I like Stein going back to the Mavs especially with no Porzigas for a few a month or 2.

There are some guys who struggle to play in Carlisle's system. Rondo was one. WCS looks like another. Perhaps he surprises me.

[M2]

Ersan Ilyasova and Markheif Morris are unsigned stretch fours.

Also wondering if someone is going to snag Dario Saric for a song.

[SteelSD]

Also wondering if someone is going to snag Dario Saric for a song.

I'd love to have him back on the Sixers, but he's an RFA so that might be problematic. Unless another team makes him an offer that Phoenix just won't match (read: too expensive to make sense), it's probably a sign-and-trade scenario for any team looking to acquire him at a reasonable rate.

[Kingspoint]

I'd love that Harry Giles signing in Portland if they didn't sign 8 more forwards this season.

Olshey swears he isn't going to have to start together a Mario Hezonja and Anthony Tolliver ever again.

[Kingspoint]

Seems like a one-year trial. He won't get minutes, but maybe he impresses them enough to keep him around next season after Kanter's contract runs out and if they don't feel like spending more to keep Collins around.

If Nurkic got injured or in foul trouble, there's only Kanter, Gabriel and Melo as bigs. Giles at least offers a presence of Defense, at least better than those three, and for sure, it's a look and a much better one than Moses Brown. Still need a backup PG (Batum for 14 minutes per game or Napier for 14 minutes per game, otherwise, I can't think of anyone else).

[Kingspoint]

Also wondering if someone is going to snag Dario Saric for a song.

Unbelievable potential, but he needs constant motivation.

[Kingspoint]

Atlanta is relevant.

Nique say, "Hello!".

[M2]

Atlanta is relevant.

Nique say, "Hello!".

Are they? Seems like a scrum for the #8 playoff spot in the East (mark Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston, Miami, Indiana, Philadelphia and Brooklyn down for the other seven). Washington, Orlando, Chicago and Charlotte all have designs on that spot too. If Sacramento fails to match the Bogdanovic offer, then maybe they become the favorites, but I expect the Kings to match.

[Kingspoint]

Are they? Seems like a scrum for the #8 playoff spot in the East (mark Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston, Miami, Indiana, Philadelphia and Brooklyn down for the other seven). Washington, Orlando, Chicago and Charlotte all have designs on that spot too. If Sacramento fails to match the Bogdanovic offer, then maybe they become the favorites, but I expect the Kings to match.

One of those Top-7 has to play a play-in game vs the 10th seed. Bad idea by the NBA. The 10th (and 9th) seed should have to win twice (like the non-winner's bracket winner in the College World Series) No reward for finishing 7th, even if it's by 15 games over the 10th, which in this case could be. Perhaps they'll be fans in the stands by then and they could get a home-court advantage.

[M2]

One of those Top-7 has to play a play-in game vs the 10th seed. Bad idea by the NBA. The 10th (and 9th) seed should have to win twice (like the non-winner's bracket winner in the College World Series) No reward for finishing 7th, even if it's by 15 games over the 10th, which in this case could be. Perhaps they'll be fans in the stands by then and they could get a home-court advantage.

Forgot they were taking it out to 10 this season. Yeah, that 7th seed in the East is going to have some raw feelings. Looks like the format is 7 plays 8 and 9 plays 10. Loser of the 7/8 game plays the winner of the 9/10 game for the final spot, so the lower seed will need to win two games to make it in.

[SteelSD]

Unbelievable potential, but he needs constant motivation.

Saric needs exactly zero motivation. He's one of the highest-motor players around and was a fantastic teammate while in Philly. His only downside is that he's not athletically gifted, which limits his value as a finisher and perimeter defender.

[Revering4Blue]

Per Woj.

Dario Saric has agreed to re-sign with the Suns on a 3-year, $27M deal.

Phoenix will be happy with their offseason so far, adding Chris Paul, Jae Crowder and Jalen Smith while re-signing Saric and Jevon Carter.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Per Woj.

Dario Saric has agreed to re-sign with the Suns on a 3-year, $27M deal.

Phoenix will be happy with their offseason so far, adding Chris Paul, Jae Crowder and Jalen Smith while re-signing Saric and Jevon Carter.

That Jalen Smith pick just looks so painful.

They could have grabbed Saddiq Bey, Vassell, or Nesmith (re replace Crowder and save that cash) or Haliburton (as a replacement for Carter) or any number of other options. They could have likely traded down and still gotten Smith too. (Or grabbed a stretch five like Oturo far lower.)

Poor roster and draft allocation of resources.

Speaking of, it'll be interesting to see how they allocate the playing time for their bigs (and smalls).

PG Chris Paul, JeVon Carter, Cam Payne
SG Devin Booker, E'Twaun Moore, Cam Payne
SF Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson
PF Dario Saric, Jae Crowder
C Ayton, Jalen Smith

That's a good lineup if Bridges proves for real from deep.

[M2]

Per Woj.

Dario Saric has agreed to re-sign with the Suns on a 3-year, $27M deal.

Phoenix will be happy with their offseason so far, adding Chris Paul, Jae Crowder and Jalen Smith while re-signing Saric and Jevon Carter.

Good for him. He got paid. Was starting to wonder if the Suns considered him surplus.

[adkindo]

I have seen some writeups today praising Pelinka and the Lakers FO for their offseason. The best I can tell, Lakers fans are mostly very pleased. I also think the team is in position to contend again....but that is mostly because of Lebron and AD. The Lakers were contenders no matter who they added because that is how the NBA works....still 90% about the stars. Personally, I am not a Gasol fan, but that is more about style...I 100% get why it can work. I still like my Centers to be rim runners and very athletic...and yes I am like the only NBA fan that is not crazy about Jokic for this similar stylistic preference. I am all good with 7'ers shooting 3's, but rubbed the wrong way when the big bulky slow footed shooters pop that ugly set shot. AD is 7' and shoots 3's like a wing.....Giannis looks like a shooter....but the Gasol, Lopez, Jokic 3's are ugly! (I know it is a bad opinion, yet I still hold it).

In all seriousness, the real issue I had was the Harrell signing. Never been a big fan, and find most of what he does is regular season empty calories. My issue with the signing is Harrell was not worth hard capping the team. I was ok using the full non taxpayer mid-level which hard capped us if one of the top tier FA's wanted to take a discount to join a top contender...someone like Gallinari or even Hayward, but those guys were smart and took the money. Harrell does not likely improve the team by enough margin to accept the hard cap. It is easy being hard capped early in the season, but around buyout season it is often the difference between losing in the Semi Finals and winning in the Finals. Just look at the roster tweaks the Lakers made from the beginning of last year to the Finals roster....Dion Waiter, Markeiff Morris and JR Smith. None were game changers, but Dion helped early in the bubble, and Morris impacted games in every playoff series. Flexibility is extremely important. I would have much preferred to use the mini MLE and keep Dwight and McGee...and we could have still added Gasol.

Finally, I think there is real risk in the type of roster turnover in the locker room that the Lakers have went through this offseason. As of right now, Dudley, Cook, Morris, Rondo, McGee, Dwight, J.R. Smith, Dion Waiters, and Danny Green are getting rings for the 2019-20 season, but not on the roster to start the 2020-21 season. I think they hope to bring back Morris and may give one of the open roster spots to someone like Dudley. It is a very different team, and what it looks like on paper will not matter in the playoffs.

[RedTeamGo!]

I have seen some writeups today praising Pelinka and the Lakers FO for their offseason. The best I can tell, Lakers fans are mostly very pleased. I also think the team is in position to contend again....but that is mostly because of Lebron and AD. The Lakers were contenders no matter who they added because that is how the NBA works....still 90% about the stars. Personally, I am not a Gasol fan, but that is more about style...I 100% get why it can work. I still like my Centers to be rim runners and very athletic...and yes I am like the only NBA fan that is not crazy about Jokic for this similar stylistic preference. I am all good with 7'ers shooting 3's, but rubbed the wrong way when the big bulky slow footed shooters pop that ugly set shot. AD is 7' and shoots 3's like a wing.....Giannis looks like a shooter....but the Gasol, Lopez, Jokic 3's are ugly! (I know it is a bad opinion, yet I still hold it).

In all seriousness, the real issue I had was the Harrell signing. Never been a big fan, and find most of what he does is regular season empty calories. My issue with the signing is Harrell was not worth hard capping the team. I was ok using the full non taxpayer mid-level which hard capped us if one of the top tier FA's wanted to take a discount to join a top contender...someone like Gallinari or even Hayward, but those guys were smart and took the money. Harrell does not likely improve the team by enough margin to accept the hard cap. It is easy being hard capped early in the season, but around buyout season it is often the difference between losing in the Semi Finals and winning in the Finals. Just look at the roster tweaks the Lakers made from the beginning of last year to the Finals roster....Dion Waiter, Markeiff Morris and JR Smith. None were game changers, but Dion helped early in the bubble, and Morris impacted games in every playoff series. Flexibility is extremely important. I would have much preferred to use the mini MLE and keep Dwight and McGee...and we could have still added Gasol.

Finally, I think there is real risk in the type of roster turnover in the locker room that the Lakers have went through this offseason. As of right now, Dudley, Cook, Morris, Rondo, McGee, Dwight, J.R. Smith, Dion Waiters, and Danny Green are getting rings for the 2019-20 season, but not on the roster to start the 2020-21 season. I think they hope to bring back Morris and may give one of the open roster spots to someone like Dudley. It is a very different team, and what it looks like on paper will not matter in the playoffs.

My Lakers fan brother believes the Harrell move is for the regular season to help give Lebron and AD more rest time. He believes since the season is beginning so soon AD and especially Lebron will need more time on the bench during the regular season to help rest up for another deep postseason run and Harrell can provide some scoring off the bench, especially against mediocre and bad teams. Basically, you nailed it with regular season empty calories, but that is by design.

[Bourgeois Zee]

My Lakers fan brother believes the Harrell move is for the regular season to help give Lebron and AD more rest time. He believes since the season is beginning so soon AD and especially Lebron will need more time on the bench during the regular season to help rest up for another deep postseason run and Harrell can provide some scoring off the bench, especially against mediocre and bad teams. Basically, you nailed it with regular season empty calories, but that is by design.

If so, they spent too much money on him.

I love the Gasol signing, but hate the Harrell signing. Gasol is a smart passer and willing pick and pop guy. He's also good in space defensively (despite having lost a couple of steps). Pairing him with AD means the All-NBA PF won't have to bang inside (and he apparently hates doing just that) and can spend his time on the perimeter. That moves LeBron to SF-- but not really, right? Kuzma will have to play somewhere and, with Morris (newly re-signed) and Harrell, he's going to spend his time at the SF and backup PF spots. That moves LeBron to PG-- which means he's going to have to guard a jitterbug off screens.

Which is hard.

LeBron could, then, play most of his minutes at the wing. KCP and Schroder can handle the heavy guard minutes, with Caruso a third guard and Talen Horton-Tucker (who sowed some promise last season) getting the big minutes. That's asking a lot of Caruso, IMO, who profiles much better as a fourth or fifth guy. However, if that's Vogel's plan, that'd mean Kuzma gets 15 mpg at most. Ditto Morris. James could toggle back and forth between guard and forward spots, but that's a heavy load for a soon-to-be 36-year-old. Especially in the regular season where he'll need more rest than normal (due to the short turnaround).

A better plan would have been one of Gasol or Harrell and not both, then a focus on backcourt depth.

[M2]

How does anyone stop a Bron-Trez pick-and-roll? They added an easy button. I'm not an X's and O's guy, but I know exactly what they're going to do with those two.

The Laker's crunch 5 are Bron, AD, KCP and Schroder with wild card - Trez, Gasol, Kuzma, Morris, Matthews, Caruso. That seems like a pretty flexible group.

[Betterread]

Looking for Kentucky fan feedback on scouting for Hagans and Maxey. Twolves just signed Hagans to a two-way contract to hopefully duplicate Naz Reid’s success from 19-20. I thought Hagans was a pretty good guard for UK last year. I liked Maxey better, but both were inconsistent and neither one could shoot 3s well. Maxey seemed more athletic and confident, but also more predictable. I liked Hagan’s defense and the higher speed of play than other UK players, but he seemed less assertive and also worse at shooting. I known scouts are saying Maxey will shoot better as a pro. Do you think Hagans could also improve? I still don’t know how Malik Monk was so good in college, but can’t shoot as a pro.

Before the draft, Clutch sports held a workout for Anthony Edwards and Maxey. Maxey looked like an athletic pro prospect. He dribbles the ball like LeBron - medium/high and forces the ball down with vigor. Edwards dribbled the ball much lower to the floor, and did not dribble with the same obvious effort as Maxey. He also moved differently than Maxey: he moved quicker and with more suddenness laterally and vertically.
So in summary, Maxey looks like a prospect, Hagans needs more skill to be a pro, and Anthony Edwards looks like a very athletic prospect.

[RiverRat13]

How does anyone stop a Bron-Trez pick-and-roll?

Punt.

[BillDoran]

That Jalen Smith pick just looks so painful.

They could have grabbed Saddiq Bey, Vassell, or Nesmith (re replace Crowder and save that cash) or Haliburton (as a replacement for Carter) or any number of other options. They could have likely traded down and still gotten Smith too. (Or grabbed a stretch five like Oturo far lower.)

Poor roster and draft allocation of resources.

Don't get the utter confidence on this take. Smith's got loads of potential, and he was only taken ~10 spots ahead of where he was projected. He's not gonna walk in the door and dominate, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he out Win-Shares Bey, Vassell and Nesmith. We all have our favorites in the draft, but it's ultimately a pretty big crapshoot after the first few picks. Might as well take the guy you like. I love teams have the conviction to draft the guy they like, mocks be damned. They caught hell for taking Cam Johnson last year, and he already looks like a stretchy knockdown shooter that'll play in the league for 10 years.

[adkindo]

How does anyone stop a Bron-Trez pick-and-roll?

honestly, McGee and Howard were solid in that role.....also, just because it looks good on paper, does not always result in a weapon. I recall all of the Lebron and AD pick n roll cannot be stopped talk before they played together.....then they rarely ever ran pick n roll together, and when they did early in the season, their timing was not great. I have also seen a lot of stuff on the internet making comparisons like Harrell averaged 18 PPG, and Dwight only averaged 8 PPG off the bench as some type of evidence it being an upgrade. The take totally ignores that Dwight was specifically asked to diminish his offensive game to focus on defense and rebounding. Dwight has a career average of near 17 PPG over a 16 year career....I am pretty sure if Dwights goal was to score, he could get 18 points a night...it would hurt the team, but he could do it. At the same time, that is basically all Harrell and Lou Williams have ever been asked to do is score points. I am not sure what Harrell gives this team over Dwight beyond less rim protection, the inability to defend large Centers, younger legs and a little more ability to defend outside the paint. Do not think that justifies $7+ Million more and hard capping the team. One more thing...anything that Harrell can do at the #5, AD can do 3x better....so why would I ever close with Harrell at the #5?

[UKFlounder]

Maxey is clearly the netter prospect and should improve with time . I’m not saying he’s as good as SGA or Herro, but he could make a similar improvement as he enters the league compared to his freshman year. He’s a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none. He did seem to play better in big games but needs to learn not try to go into the lane 1-on-4 and try crazy shots. He also is a good young man and teammate - he has a great smile. That probably means nothing, but he’s easy to root for when he struggles and should not be a problem on any team.

Hagans was a bit of a disappointment - not only with his outside shot, but also his struggles making even layups, though his FT shooting improved last year (per my memory) so that might be a positive sign. He also is turnover prone and sometimes gambles too much on defense. He’s not a bad sign as an in drafted guy and may develop with time and maturity, but I see him as potentially a bench piece.

Of course, I am in no way, shape or form, a scout, so take these words with a grain of salt, but those were my impressions of these two guys.





Looking for Kentucky fan feedback on scouting for Hagans and Maxey. Twolves just signed Hagans to a two-way contract to hopefully duplicate Naz Reid’s success from 19-20. I thought Hagans was a pretty good guard for UK last year. I liked Maxey better, but both were inconsistent and neither one could shoot 3s well. Maxey seemed more athletic and confident, but also more predictable. I liked Hagan’s defense and the higher speed of play than other UK players, but he seemed less assertive and also worse at shooting. I known scouts are saying Maxey will shoot better as a pro. Do you think Hagans could also improve? I still don’t know how Malik Monk was so good in college, but can’t shoot as a pro.

Before the draft, Clutch sports held a workout for Anthony Edwards and Maxey. Maxey looked like an athletic pro prospect. He dribbles the ball like LeBron - medium/high and forces the ball down with vigor. Edwards dribbled the ball much lower to the floor, and did not dribble with the same obvious effort as Maxey. He also moved differently than Maxey: he moved quicker and with more suddenness laterally and vertically.
So in summary, Maxey looks like a prospect, Hagans needs more skill to be a pro, and Anthony Edwards looks like a very athletic prospect.

[Revering4Blue]

Don't get the utter confidence on this take. Smith's got loads of potential, and he was only taken ~10 spots ahead of where he was projected. He's not gonna walk in the door and dominate, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he out Win-Shares Bey, Vassell and Nesmith. We all have our favorites in the draft, but it's ultimately a pretty big crapshoot after the first few picks. Might as well take the guy you like. I love teams have the conviction to draft the guy they like, mocks be damned. They caught hell for taking Cam Johnson last year, and he already looks like a stretchy knockdown shooter that'll play in the league for 10 years.Exactly.

FWIW, within a day of the draft, several mocks pegged Smith either 13 to New Orleans or 14 to Boston. So I'm not sure that the trade down option was feasible. And James Jones has already stated that Smith will also see time next to Ayton. So the position that the selection of Smith is/was a reach is quite a stretch - no pun intended.



Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[M2]

honestly, McGee and Howard were solid in that role.....also, just because it looks good on paper, does not always result in a weapon. I recall all of the Lebron and AD pick n roll cannot be stopped talk before they played together.....then they rarely ever ran pick n roll together, and when they did early in the season, their timing was not great. I have also seen a lot of stuff on the internet making comparisons like Harrell averaged 18 PPG, and Dwight only averaged 8 PPG off the bench as some type of evidence it being an upgrade. The take totally ignores that Dwight was specifically asked to diminish his offensive game to focus on defense and rebounding. Dwight has a career average of near 17 PPG over a 16 year career....I am pretty sure if Dwights goal was to score, he could get 18 points a night...it would hurt the team, but he could do it. At the same time, that is basically all Harrell and Lou Williams have ever been asked to do is score points. I am not sure what Harrell gives this team over Dwight beyond less rim protection, the inability to defend large Centers, younger legs and a little more ability to defend outside the paint. Do not think that justifies $7+ Million more and hard capping the team. One more thing...anything that Harrell can do at the #5, AD can do 3x better....so why would I ever close with Harrell at the #5?

In terms of pick-and-roll, Trez is pretty elite. It's kind of like asking why would J.J. Redick make your 3-point shooting better. If for some reason they don't regularly use Trez in pick-and-rolls, then absolutely feel free to scratch your head over why they signed him. Yet until I see evidence to the contrary I'm going to assume they recruited Trez to do the thing he's best at.

As for closing, I don't know that Trez will. Then again, he's not exactly making closer money. He's there on a mid-level exception. I would expect mid-level responsibilities and usage for him. AD's a versatile enough defender to play with another big. If the other team wants to go big, they can use Gasol. If the other team wants to go small, then good luck dealing with the Trezmanian Devil in the interior. They definitely can throw different looks at the opposition.

[adkindo]

Hagans was a bit of a disappointment - not only with his outside shot, but also his struggles making even layups, though his FT shooting improved last year (per my memory) so that might be a positive sign. He also is turnover prone and sometimes gambles too much on defense. He’s not a bad sign as an in drafted guy and may develop with time and maturity, but I see him as potentially a bench piece.

I was going to type a response about Hagans, then I began to question myself as everything in that 6 months pre COVID has became foggy....but Hagans was UK's best perimeter defender, right?

[adkindo]

Cousins to Houston seems iffy to me. The situation there is so unsettled, it "could" be a poor environment to bring Cousins into....especially if he begins to feel like an alpha in the locker room. Cousins needs to be in a locker room that is only focused on winning and with solid vets in the locker room that he respects.

[adkindo]

In terms of pick-and-roll, Trez is pretty elite. It's kind of like asking why would J.J. Redick make your 3-point shooting better. If for some reason they don't regularly use Trez in pick-and-rolls, then absolutely feel free to scratch your head over why they signed him. Yet until I see evidence to the contrary I'm going to assume they recruited Trez to do the thing he's best at.

As for closing, I don't know that Trez will. Then again, he's not exactly making closer money. He's there on a mid-level exception. I would expect mid-level responsibilities and usage for him. AD's a versatile enough defender to play with another big. If the other team wants to go big, they can use Gasol. If the other team wants to go small, then good luck dealing with the Trezmanian Devil in the interior. They definitely can throw different looks at the opposition.

it's really the hard cap that troubles me...I recall last year with the Warriors, it seemed like once one or two things went wrong, the train completely derailed because they had no flexibility. If I recall, they could not even convert a 2 way contract guy because they had no flexibility and went into some games with less than 12 players dressed. I know the Lakers are deeper than last years Warriors but I just think hard capping yourself in a league that operates as if there is a soft cap should be a last resort.

[UKFlounder]

Often, maybe usually, but he sometimes gambled too much for steals and let his man get around him. He needs more consistency. Defense is his strength and probably his ticket to professional ball, but it might take some more maturity/experience for him to reach his potential, which is not unreasonable for a college sophomore. I think going to Kentucky led him to believe he was an instant pro, but he is one that needs more than two years to develop.



I was going to type a response about Hagans, then I began to question myself as everything in that 6 months pre COVID has became foggy....but Hagans was UK's best perimeter defender, right?

[UKFlounder]

You may be right, but I wonder if his problems in recent years have humbled or changed him at all so that he might fit in a place where he would not have a few years ago. It might be wishful thinking on my part



Cousins to Houston seems iffy to me. The situation there is so unsettled, it "could" be a poor environment to bring Cousins into....especially if he begins to feel like an alpha in the locker room. Cousins needs to be in a locker room that is only focused on winning and with solid vets in the locker room that he respects.

[Kingspoint]

When asked about the need for a backup point guard, Olshey was emphatic: “Anfernee Simons is the backup point guard.”


Oh-kay.

Couldn't use the BE as it would put us into the luxury tax for the 2nd year in a row with a hefty penalty, and he wanted roster flexiblity with a 14-player squad. Also said Hood is ready to go on Opening Night and Zach is scheduled to be ready 3-4 weeks later.

No backup PG last season was ugly.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Don't get the utter confidence on this take. Smith's got loads of potential, and he was only taken ~10 spots ahead of where he was projected. He's not gonna walk in the door and dominate, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he out Win-Shares Bey, Vassell and Nesmith. We all have our favorites in the draft, but it's ultimately a pretty big crapshoot after the first few picks. Might as well take the guy you like. I love teams have the conviction to draft the guy they like, mocks be damned. They caught hell for taking Cam Johnson last year, and he already looks like a stretchy knockdown shooter that'll play in the league for 10 years.

I suppose I could couch every comment with an "in my opinion," but that'd make my long posts even longer. Just assume everything I say is an opinion. I may absolutely be wrong.

That said, Smith, at his best, is a 15 - 20 mpg guy playing behind Ayton. And that assumes the Suns aren't going to play Saric any at center, a lineup that was very effective in the bubble last season. They're not trading Ayton, and they're not going to cut his minutes either. Now, maybe he can play PF, you say. Fair enough. If he can, he'll have to beat out Saric (who they just paid relatively big money), Jae Crowder (who they also just paid relatively big money), and Cam Johnson (who handled the backup PF spot incredibly well in the bubble). That's a lot to overcome for a rookie on a team that's looking to push for a playoff spot.

Vassell is nearly going to double Smith's minutes as a backup to DeRozan and Derek White. More than that, the Spurs are focused largely on developing their young guys. He's going to get minutes to show what he can do.

Boston is in the middle of a championship run, but Nesmith is a two-position backup. He's going to get some run behind Smart at 2G and Brown at SF, not because he's a better player, but because he has a spot on the Celtics that's nearly perfect for his skillset-- shooting from distance. (He doesn't even have to be all that good defensively, rebound, or dribble. Just shoot.)

Bey will probably start from the get-go in Detroit. If he's not a starter, he's going to get starter minutes soon thereafter. And they're going to push him to score. They're another team that's in development mode. He's going to get his minutes to show his mettle.

Secondly, Smith was about a 10 spot overdraft. Even if he's who the Suns wanted (and it's apparent he was), we know from reports that Boston was willing to trade up. We know that Minnesota was looking to trade up too. Both had picks closer to Smith's range. Phoenix had the opportunity to grab another asset instead of picking Smith where they did.

And hey, I may be wrong. This wouldn't be the first time, for sure. But what's the payout for Smith? Is it similar to Johnson, as a 10-year backup? If so, that's a pretty low bar for the 10th pick, IMO. Maybe Phoenix has found a sneaky good plan the last two seasons and is building around the edges. I'd argue with picks as high as they've got, that's not a great way to build a team.

[Kingspoint]

Saric needs exactly zero motivation. He's one of the highest-motor players around and was a fantastic teammate while in Philly. His only downside is that he's not athletically gifted, which limits his value as a finisher and perimeter defender.

When you don't get to see guys every day, it's easy to get the wrong impression. Thanks for clearing it up. He always seemed to show disinterest to me.

[M2]

it's really the hard cap that troubles me...I recall last year with the Warriors, it seemed like once one or two things went wrong, the train completely derailed because they had no flexibility. If I recall, they could not even convert a 2 way contract guy because they had no flexibility and went into some games with less than 12 players dressed. I know the Lakers are deeper than last years Warriors but I just think hard capping yourself in a league that operates as if there is a soft cap should be a last resort.

That's definitely a concern. Kind of removes the net.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Cousins to Houston seems iffy to me. The situation there is so unsettled, it "could" be a poor environment to bring Cousins into....especially if he begins to feel like an alpha in the locker room. Cousins needs to be in a locker room that is only focused on winning and with solid vets in the locker room that he respects.

I don't think anyone can say this with any sort of confidence. We just aren't privy to the daily machinations and actions of an NBA team. We do know, based on interviews, that Cousins has been spoken of very highly by various teammates over the years, including Rajon Rondo and AD (two of his closer friends in the NBA and two of the more respected guys in the league). Green and Durant in Golden State said they liked him too. I will say that he needs a coach he trusts in order to be the best player he can be. George Karl was not that coach. Keith Smart wasn't either. Mark Malone was, though, and he seems to love Boogie. (And vice versa.)

I do question the fit, though. Cousins is definitely going to be playing second fiddle behind Wood in center minutes. (Unless Wood takes over at PF for Tucker-- as PJ is apparently also unhappy in Houston.) That means short minutes. Which may mean big-time production similar to Bob McAdoo in his latter Laker days, when he played behind Kareem. I could see Cousins becoming a second unit force, bully-balling his way to 15 - 20 points and 7 - 10 boards a night in 20 - 25 mpg. He might even play a modicum of defense. (Some nights.) It'll be fascinating to see how he works with Harden and Westbrook up top. You know they're going to use that high pick and roll, and Boogie can pick with the best of them. He can pop too-- when healthy. And he can roll too.

What I'd bet, however, is that a Westbrook-for-Wall deal is just around the corner. And Boogie and John Wall have wanted to play together again since they left Kentucky. Westbrook for Wall (and something small, like perhaps a 2nd round pick), then Harden for LeVert, Dinwiddie, and a couple of first rounders (one from Brooklyn, one from a team that takes on Jarrett Allen), and Houston has rebuilt their team on the fly.

We'll see, of course. That's why they play the games.

[M2]

Cousins to Houston seems iffy to me. The situation there is so unsettled, it "could" be a poor environment to bring Cousins into....especially if he begins to feel like an alpha in the locker room. Cousins needs to be in a locker room that is only focused on winning and with solid vets in the locker room that he respects.

The Wood deal has me thinking the Rockets are keeping Harden and Russ. Add in a version of Boogie with something left in his tank and that's a tough team.

[SteelSD]

When you don't get to see guys every day, it's easy to get the wrong impression. Thanks for clearing it up. He always seemed to show disinterest to me.

Here's a good article from 2018 about the Homie:

https://www.theringer.com/nba-playoffs/2018/4/30/17300182/philadelphia-76ers-dario-saric

[Betterread]

FWIW, I think Wall is untradeable. He heavily relied on his athletic gifts so I think his Achilles tear will affect him more than say, Klay. He has $134 million over the next three years coming to him. Even the wolves wouldn’t trade Wiggins for him. Then again, I thought Wiggins was another untradeable player and I was wrong about that.

[Betterread]

Here's a good article from 2018 about the Homie:

https://www.theringer.com/nba-playoffs/2018/4/30/17300182/philadelphia-76ers-dario-saric
Saric is a real professional, and plays winning basketball. But at the same time, when the Sixers traded him to the Twolves, he wasn’t happy about it, and he sulked a little bit. I think he is competitive, hates losing, and loves playoff ball. He is also from the Croatian coast, so all these snow cities must bother him. Phoenix is a good fit, as long as they win.

[adkindo]

The Wood deal has me thinking the Rockets are keeping Harden and Russ. Add in a version of Boogie with something left in his tank and that's a tough team.

I agree they may keep them, but will they be focused....or will there be sulking? If they are focused on winning, then a healthy Cousins can help them and is unlikely to be an issue. My concern would be there were some reports that it is "personal" and there are "feelings" involved in Harden and Westbrook's desire to exit which could make it more difficult to be focused on winning.

[Kingspoint]

Saric is a real professional, and plays winning basketball. But at the same time, when the Sixers traded him to the Twolves, he wasn’t happy about it, and he sulked a little bit. I think he is competitive, hates losing, and loves playoff ball. He is also from the Croatian coast, so all these snow cities must bother him. Phoenix is a good fit, as long as they win.

Yeah, most of my view and opinion of him was based on what I recently witnessed of him in both Minnesota and Phoenix...a man uninterested on most nights.

[BillDoran]

When asked about the need for a backup point guard, Olshey was emphatic: “Anfernee Simons is the backup point guard.”


Oh-kay.

Couldn't use the BE as it would put us into the luxury tax for the 2nd year in a row with a hefty penalty, and he wanted roster flexiblity with a 14-player squad. Also said Hood is ready to go on Opening Night and Zach is scheduled to be ready 3-4 weeks later.

No backup PG last season was ugly.

No idea why they brought Melo back instead of a veteran PG.

Can anyone imagine a scenario where this ends well for Melo?

In Olshey's presser, he said they talked to Melo about coming off the bench and playing a complementary role. He didn't say he was gung-ho, he said he thought Melo was coming around to it. With Covington, Hood, Collins, Derrick Jones Jr., Gary Trent Jr. and even Harry Giles ready to see minutes at the 3 and 4, I fail to see where Melo's getting legitimate tiime. Stotts will shoehorn him in, but I have no idea how you play 36-year-old Melo over some of those guys. I suspect Dame or C.J. made a request to bring Melo back. He just makes no sense for this roster, especially when you're staring at Simons trying to run the second unit for 5-10 minutes a night.

[BillDoran]

I suppose I could couch every comment with an "in my opinion," but that'd make my long posts even longer. Just assume everything I say is an opinion. I may absolutely be wrong.

That said, Smith, at his best, is a 15 - 20 mpg guy playing behind Ayton. And that assumes the Suns aren't going to play Saric any at center, a lineup that was very effective in the bubble last season. They're not trading Ayton, and they're not going to cut his minutes either. Now, maybe he can play PF, you say. Fair enough. If he can, he'll have to beat out Saric (who they just paid relatively big money), Jae Crowder (who they also just paid relatively big money), and Cam Johnson (who handled the backup PF spot incredibly well in the bubble). That's a lot to overcome for a rookie on a team that's looking to push for a playoff spot.

Vassell is nearly going to double Smith's minutes as a backup to DeRozan and Derek White. More than that, the Spurs are focused largely on developing their young guys. He's going to get minutes to show what he can do.

Boston is in the middle of a championship run, but Nesmith is a two-position backup. He's going to get some run behind Smart at 2G and Brown at SF, not because he's a better player, but because he has a spot on the Celtics that's nearly perfect for his skillset-- shooting from distance. (He doesn't even have to be all that good defensively, rebound, or dribble. Just shoot.)

Bey will probably start from the get-go in Detroit. If he's not a starter, he's going to get starter minutes soon thereafter. And they're going to push him to score. They're another team that's in development mode. He's going to get his minutes to show his mettle.

Secondly, Smith was about a 10 spot overdraft. Even if he's who the Suns wanted (and it's apparent he was), we know from reports that Boston was willing to trade up. We know that Minnesota was looking to trade up too. Both had picks closer to Smith's range. Phoenix had the opportunity to grab another asset instead of picking Smith where they did.

And hey, I may be wrong. This wouldn't be the first time, for sure. But what's the payout for Smith? Is it similar to Johnson, as a 10-year backup? If so, that's a pretty low bar for the 10th pick, IMO. Maybe Phoenix has found a sneaky good plan the last two seasons and is building around the edges. I'd argue with picks as high as they've got, that's not a great way to build a team.

If you think Smith is going to have a hard time getting minutes behind Ayton, Saric and Crowder, I'm not sure where you see Bey fitting in. He's a carbon copy of Crowder. Same goes with Vassell and Nesmith. I doubt they leap Mikal Bridges for minutes, nor Cam Johnson. I suppose they could spell Booker for a few minutes, but I'm not sure you're really worrying about who's behind your young superstar. I'd imagine that's pretty low on the priority list.

Also, I presume most good NBA teams aren't drafting for immediate roster fit (especially down the draft, especially in this draft). I fail to see how any of these dudes are sure things, and frankly I'd put them all in the same bucket. They're all upside guys that'll have to prove themselves in the NBA. But Jalen Smith is a high pedigree (16 RSCI) legit big who went for 16, 10 and 2.5 blocks a night in a good basketball conference. He shot 37% from three and posted a TS% of 63. I mean, what's not to like, other than where Sam Vecenie or Kevin O'Connor slotted him.

It's likely semantics, and I'm cool with others' opinions. I just thought it was strange how confidently you couched your Smith take. I mean he could be a dud, but it's not like he's vastly different potential wise than the guys you named.

[Kingspoint]

No idea why they brought Melo back instead of a veteran PG.

Can anyone imagine a scenario where this ends well for Melo?

In Olshey's presser, he said they talked to Melo about coming off the bench and playing a complementary role. He didn't say he was gung-ho, he said he thought Melo was coming around to it. With Covington, Hood, Collins, Derrick Jones Jr., Gary Trent Jr. and even Harry Giles ready to see minutes at the 3 and 4, I fail to see where Melo's getting legitimate tiime. Stotts will shoehorn him in, but I have no idea how you play 36-year-old Melo over some of those guys. I suspect Dame or C.J. made a request to bring Melo back. He just makes no sense for this roster, especially when you're staring at Simons trying to run the second unit for 5-10 minutes a night.

Maybe this helps clear it up:

Listening to Olshey talk about it yesterday, he was explicit that C.J. is the backup PG. He stated that C.J. is a Top-2 SG in the league and that his numbers/metrics back up that he's a Top-14 PG in the league when Dame has missed games and C.J. has to take over. That he and Dame only spend 24 minutes on the floor together and they stagger 12 minutes a piece on the bench. When Dame is on the floor he's the PG. When he isn't C.J. is the PG. That's 48 minutes. He also said that the game is different and there isn't a need for an Earl Watson type of 3rd PG anymore. Simons is the emergency PG and mopup PG.

Regarding Melo, he, Stotts and the team loves what he brings to the floor as a positive influence to everyone, that he's an asset at crunchtime because he can hit a big shot giving Stotts another weapon to have confidence in for that situation, there are a ton of back-to-backs this season and many of the bigs are coming off of injuries. Melo won't play much of the back-to-backs,...Hood and Zach will have to be monitored with them, while Nurk and Kanter will have their own monitoring to do regarding them, and Giles and Nurk and Zach have spent more time injured than healthy (he didn't say that, but he did say he was concerned about not having enough bigs. Minutes for everyone is never an issue. Never ever. These things always work themselves out and injuries definitely will happen.

So, that's it.

The roster is set. Let the games begin.

When I quoted that Olshey said, "Simons is our backup PG", I was quoting an article from Blazersedge who said this is what he said in the presser. I never watched the presser (that you referenced, too). I did listen to him directly last night and he couldn't be more clear about it. Simons is an emergency PG. C.J. is the backup PG. There wasn't anyone available who would be better than C.J. as the backup PG. His best two players are Guards. He was very concerned about not having enough bigs to get through an entire season and one of this type coming up.

[Betterread]

Maybe this helps clear it up:

Listening to Olshey talk about it yesterday, he was explicit that C.J. is the backup PG. He stated that C.J. is a Top-2 SG in the league and that his numbers/metrics back up that he's a Top-14 PG in the league when Dame has missed games and C.J. has to take over. That he and Dame only spend 24 minutes on the floor together and they stagger 12 minutes a piece on the bench. When Dame is on the floor he's the PG. When he isn't C.J. is the PG. That's 48 minutes. He also said that the game is different and there isn't a need for an Earl Watson type of 3rd PG anymore. Simons is the emergency PG and mopup PG.

Regarding Melo, he, Stotts and the team loves what he brings to the floor as a positive influence to everyone, that he's an asset at crunchtime because he can hit a big shot giving Stotts another weapon to have confidence in for that situation, there are a ton of back-to-backs this season and many of the bigs are coming off of injuries. Melo won't play much of the back-to-backs,...Hood and Zach will have to be monitored with them, while Nurk and Kanter will have their own monitoring to do regarding them, and Giles and Nurk and Zach have spent more time injured than healthy (he didn't say that, but he did say he was concerned about not having enough bigs. Minutes for everyone is never an issue. Never ever. These things always work themselves out and injuries definitely will happen.

So, that's it.

The roster is set. Let the games begin.
Is your defensive scheme the Vanterpool deny space defense or has Tibbets set up a new scheme? I ask this because Vanterpool’s scheme seemed to be effective, players picked it up quickly (most of them), and it was a scheme that didn’t require individual aptitude (McCollum, layman, Connaught on all were good defenders in the scheme, and they were ineffective when they were one on one).
Vanterpool is desperate to be a head coach, by the way. I think the Wolves should give him a shot, soon.

[Kingspoint]

Is your defensive scheme the Vanterpool deny space defense or has Tibbets set up a new scheme?

That was asked. Olshey said Stotts was working on adjusting the defensive schemes (certainly Vanterpool is a huge influence there), but what the team needed most was better defensive players, comparing RoCo and Derrick Jones to Aminu and Harkless. With Trent, Nurk and Zach all Defensive forces, and Giles helping out when we go against athletic bigs, he feels that they maximized what they could do in the offseason to fix the Defensive issues on the team while staying under the luxury tax, and keeping a balance between the next wave of talent (Zach, Trent, Derrick Jones, Little, Simons, Giles) and the desire to win now., while also keeping contracts at the length of Nurk's remaining years of two years for flexibility purposes in this ever-changing environment.

With better personnel, it definitely opens up what Stotts can do. Ideally, you want to play it the way Kerr and Golden State play it defensively, switching constantly with pressure on the ball and busy hands in the passing lanes. Stotts has always preferred not switching, but that could be because of always having two Guards of shorter stature and less lateral movement. With this personnel, there should be more switching. Clearly Melo is a liability, but he'll probably be paired with a Center and opposite forward more athletic in a Melo/Nurk/Roco line. Kanter will be paired with a Roco/Kanter/Jones or Trent line. I really have to wait to watch the experimenting to see what works.

Stotts will probably stick with finding pairs of bigs who work well together and stick with them on the floor together.

[Kingspoint]

That whisper you here is Hassan Whiteside's phone.

I do wish him well. He did everything the right way while he was here.

[BillDoran]

Maybe this helps clear it up:

Listening to Olshey talk about it yesterday, he was explicit that C.J. is the backup PG. He stated that C.J. is a Top-2 SG in the league and that his numbers/metrics back up that he's a Top-14 PG in the league when Dame has missed games and C.J. has to take over. That he and Dame only spend 24 minutes on the floor together and they stagger 12 minutes a piece on the bench. When Dame is on the floor he's the PG. When he isn't C.J. is the PG. That's 48 minutes. He also said that the game is different and there isn't a need for an Earl Watson type of 3rd PG anymore. Simons is the emergency PG and mopup PG.

Regarding Melo, he, Stotts and the team loves what he brings to the floor as a positive influence to everyone, that he's an asset at crunchtime because he can hit a big shot giving Stotts another weapon to have confidence in for that situation, there are a ton of back-to-backs this season and many of the bigs are coming off of injuries. Melo won't play much of the back-to-backs,...Hood and Zach will have to be monitored with them, while Nurk and Kanter will have their own monitoring to do regarding them, and Giles and Nurk and Zach have spent more time injured than healthy (he didn't say that, but he did say he was concerned about not having enough bigs. Minutes for everyone is never an issue. Never ever. These things always work themselves out and injuries definitely will happen.

So, that's it.

The roster is set. Let the games begin.

When I quoted that Olshey said, "Simons is our backup PG", I was quoting an article from Blazersedge who said this is what he said in the presser. I never watched the presser (that you referenced, too). I did listen to him directly last night and he couldn't be more clear about it. Simons is an emergency PG. C.J. is the backup PG. There wasn't anyone available who would be better than C.J. as the backup PG. His best two players are Guards. He was very concerned about not having enough bigs to get through an entire season and one of this type coming up.

Regarding Simons, hard to take Olshey at his word here. Simons played 20.7 mpg during the regular season (across 70 games) and 20.5 mpg in the playoffs (only four games). The staggering makes some sense in theory, but I've never really seen it play out that way on the floor. This also presumes both Lillard and McCollum, both consistently among the NBA leaders in minutes played, will stay healthy for the entirety of the season. If that's not the case, now we're relying on a guy with a 9.0 PER to play serious, pivotal minutes on a team that's taking it's playoff aspirations very seriously.

On Melo, again, I'll buy it when I see it. He was a reasonably good fit last year, given all the injuries. But the dude still clearly wants minutes and shots. Everybody is going to say the right things in the offseason, but just wait until Melo plays sparingly for a three-game stretch. There's a reason the Rockets bailed on him after 10 games. There's a reason he was available when the Blazers wing spot was decimated. Nobody's going to openly trash Melo or his considerable ego. He may be liked in the locker room (and I suspect players advocated for him in OKC and Houston), but he's going to be a pain for Stotts and the front office. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe Melo's a good soldier when I see him vigorously cheering his teammates on while logging consecutive DNP - Coach's Decision.

Press conference's are press conferences. Of course, Olshey's going to put a positive spin on everything. I think the Blazers got better this offseason. I don't buy that they improved markedly or are ready to compete with the top tier in the West. Lots of issues, and that's evident when they're pumping up a guy like Derrick Jones Jr., a guy who had a hard time getting off the bench for the Heat in the playoffs.

[SteelSD]

Saric is a real professional, and plays winning basketball. But at the same time, when the Sixers traded him to the Twolves, he wasn’t happy about it, and he sulked a little bit. I think he is competitive, hates losing, and loves playoff ball. He is also from the Croatian coast, so all these snow cities must bother him. Phoenix is a good fit, as long as they win.

If he wasn't happy about it, that might have been tied to the fact that he went from playing productive starters minutes with a playoff team to coming off the bench for a team going nowhere whose coach was inexplicably giving Saric' minutes to Taj-freakin-Gibson.

That would tick me off too.

[adkindo]

That whisper you here is Hassan Whiteside's phone.

I do wish him well. He did everything the right way while he was here.

While I do not disagree with the many issues in the modern game with the athletic traditional Center like Whiteside and Dwight, I do think we are at the point where they are probably underrated by teams because the market often treats them as if they have no value, but in certain matchups they still have value.

[Betterread]

If he wasn't happy about it, that might have been tied to the fact that he went from playing productive starters minutes with a playoff team to coming off the bench for a team going nowhere whose coach was inexplicably giving Saric' minutes to Taj-freakin-Gibson.

That would tick me off too.

You’re right on target from the talent analysis. Thibs was awful: Saric is clearly more skilled that Taj. Thibs is now coach of the Knicks, his dream job as a New Yorker. I am confident he will not turn things around and he will have an aneurysm and will retire from coaching.
As for Saric, If Philly liked him that much, why did they trade him? I think they betrayed him. He was a European Star, and they courted him big time to get more talent. Who knows what they promised him, and then reneged.

That would tick me off, too.

[SteelSD]

You’re right on target from the talent analysis. Thibs was awful: Saric is clearly more skilled that Taj. Thibs is now coach of the Knicks, his dream job as a New Yorker. I am confident he will not turn things around and he will have an aneurysm and will retire from coaching.
As for Saric, If Philly liked him that much, why did they trade him? I think they betrayed him. He was a European Star, and they courted him big time to get more talent. Who knows what they promised him, and then reneged.

That would tick me off, too.

Saric was a draft-and-stash. The Sixers wanted to get him to the States, but didn't "court" him as much as they rescued him. Go read the article I posted earlier and see what he says about the Euroleague. The Sixers dealt him for the same reason a team deals any player- to acquire talent. Saric didn't take any shots at the organization on the way out. He expressed appreciation. He wasn't disgruntled at all until he got to experience the completely dysfunctional T-Wolves organization.

[Betterread]

Saric was a draft-and-stash. The Sixers wanted to get him to the States, but didn't "court" him as much as they rescued him. Go read the article I posted earlier and see what he says about the Euroleague. The Sixers dealt him for the same reason a team deals any player- to acquire talent. Saric didn't take any shots at the organization on the way out. He expressed appreciation. He wasn't disgruntled at all until he got to experience the completely dysfunctional T-Wolves organization.
Nice. The SoDakHammer. You left that Midwest nice behind you. Have fun explaining that Carson Wentz sucks ‘cause he’s from NoDak, NOT SoDak.
footnote: Top Seeded Philly just lost got destroyed by NE in the first round of the MLS playoffs. No bragging rights in soccer this year. Maybe the Sixers can recapture past glory in ‘21. I doubt it.

[M2]

I'm going to try to broker a peace here. Can we all agree that the Thibs Wolves were a mess as were last season's Sixers? There's a reason why both franchises cleaned house. In fact, Jimmy Butler turned out to be the canary in the coal mine in both cases.

[Kingspoint]

Saric was a draft-and-stash. The Sixers wanted to get him to the States, but didn't "court" him as much as they rescued him. Go read the article I posted earlier and see what he says about the Euroleague. The Sixers dealt him for the same reason a team deals any player- to acquire talent. Saric didn't take any shots at the organization on the way out. He expressed appreciation. He wasn't disgruntled at all until he got to experience the completely dysfunctional T-Wolves organization.

It's not quite the same, but I remember guys crying when they were given their orders in the army they were heading to North Dakota for two years.

[SteelSD]

Nice. The SoDakHammer. You left that Midwest nice behind you. Have fun explaining that Carson Wentz sucks ‘cause he’s from NoDak, NOT SoDak.
footnote: Top Seeded Philly just lost got destroyed by NE in the first round of the MLS playoffs. No bragging rights in soccer this year. Maybe the Sixers can recapture past glory in ‘21. I doubt it.

I'm not sure what any of that means, has to do with NBA basketball, or why you decided to waste keystrokes on it.

The Timberwolves have been a joke of a franchise. The Sixers have been completely dysfunctional, save for the time Hinke spent there.

Whatever problem you have is between you and you.

[SteelSD]

It's not quite the same, but I remember guys crying when they were given their orders in the army they were heading to North Dakota for two years.

That'd make sense as North Dakota has no Army bases.

[Kingspoint]

That'd make sense as North Dakota has no Army bases.Either they did in 1980, or it was an Air Force Base, as I was in school with all five branches. Reagan permanently closed a lot of bases in order to reduce the budget.

[Betterread]

North Dakota has two Air Force bases and SoDak has one. The army has decided there is nothing to protect in either state.

[SteelSD]

Either they did in 1980, or it was an Air Force Base, as I was in school with all five branches.

Yeah, no Army bases. Cool story, though.

[adkindo]

That'd make sense as North Dakota has no Army bases.

that would suck....the Army send you somewhere with no base or shelter.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/22/0e/25220eae20321a2ddcd0a02242459360.gif

[adkindo]

Kingspoint's friends still maintain a perimeter around Bismark to this day waiting on their discharge paperwork! (I am only kidding with you.)

[Betterread]

that would suck....the Army send you somewhere with no base or shelter.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/22/0e/25220eae20321a2ddcd0a02242459360.gif
And no COVID-19. With the nation’s highest positivity rate, SoDak has not asked their citizens to adjust to COVID, outside of Brookings, no masks, no staying at home, nothing.

[Boston Red]

Did someone in this thread really talk MLS smack?!? What world is this?

[SteelSD]

Did someone in this thread really talk MLS smack?!? What world is this?

I think Betterread is trying to trash talk. It's super cute. Sort of like a puppy yipping away at a T-Rex.

You just want to give him scritches.

[adkindo]

And no COVID-19. With the nation’s highest positivity rate, SoDak has not asked their citizens to adjust to COVID, outside of Brookings, no masks, no staying at home, nothing.

I am not sure what the whole conversation is even about....I just had this image in my head from a slapstick comedy sketch of someone arriving in a location after joining the military and nobody was there.

In regards to the positivity rate...in my experience, every region has kind of taken it's turn of being the hot spot. The media picks certain states to focus on and make it a huge issue based on an agenda. I recall when Florida and Texas was struggling, every night the media was just taking a hammer to the state political leaders....and at the same time California and a few other places were struggling as bad and worse in some cases, yet they were rarely mentioned. Yes, SD has got his hard lately, but the largest % increase in cases this past week was in New Mexico and Virginia.....yet most of the media do not seem interested in them. It is not that they are lying about South Dakota, it is that the media is focused on it because of a separate agenda.

[Kingspoint]

Kingspoint's friends still maintain a perimeter around Bismark to this day waiting on their discharge paperwork! (I am only kidding with you.)

Well, they were kinda,...ya know,...funny lookin'.

[goreds2]

I have not been to this thread for awhile now. What is your opinions of my 76ers draft and trades?

[M2]

I have not been to this thread for awhile now. What is your opinions of my 76ers draft and trades?

Curry and Green give them perimeter players, which they desperately needed. I question how much Maxey is going to play with Curry, Green, Thybulle, Milton, Korkmaz and Ferguson also pushing for minutes. I like Howard and Bradley as backups for when Embiid needs to be load managed. Oddly, I think the makeover thrusts Tobias Harris into a more important role. He's the guy who can score from the greatest variety of places on the court and probably the main beneficiary of the extra spacing.

[SteelSD]

I have not been to this thread for awhile now. What is your opinions of my 76ers draft and trades?

Getting Maxey at #21 was a great move and he's reportedly been working hard on his threes in the offseason. Isaiah Joe has a shot, so it was nice to see the team not sell off it's 2nd rounders for peanuts.

In initially hated the Curry trade, but I've started to come around. Richardson is a better defender, but there's a wider gap offensively between he and Curry than I realized. Richardson hasn't moved the dial north for his shooting efficiency (@50%) while Seth is at 59% for his career (62% last season). Terrance Ferguson is long, athletic, and was decent as of a couple seasons ago.

The Hoford trade was great. I wasn't expecting to get anything back (heck, I was fearful there would be no takers at all), so a year of a useful Danny Green and a flyer on Terrance Ferguson revisiting 2018-2019 (he was abysmal last season) is great. Replacing him with a cheap Dwight Howard was icing.

Ryan Broekoff can shoot off the bench and he'll probably see limited minutes. I actually really like the value acquisition of Tony Bradley. Based on his stats, the guy might just be a 10-pt/10-board back-up for Howard when Embiid gets load managed out of the lineup. Now, if he could stop fouling, that would help get him more minutes.

I wouldn't say mission accomplished yet, but at least we can see that there's a project plan in place.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I have not been to this thread for awhile now. What is your opinions of my 76ers draft and trades?

They're still short shooting, IMO. Curry is a great start there and may be too valuable to leave off the court despite his defensive shortcomings. Thybulle, Harris, and Milton have to be above average shooters. Defensively, they should be monsters.

[Kingspoint]

Hassan wears a crown.

[M2]

I don't get why the Kings would let Bogdanovic walk. They had the space to fit him under the cap and they could have moved him or Hield for something sweet during or after the season.

[BillDoran]

I don't get why the Kings would let Bogdanovic walk. They had the space to fit him under the cap and they could have moved him or Hield for something sweet during or after the season.

They are a poorly run franchise. It wasn't just Vlade.

[M2]

They are a poorly run franchise. It wasn't just Vlade.

That's got to be the owner, right?

[adkindo]

I don't get why the Kings would let Bogdanovic walk. They had the space to fit him under the cap and they could have moved him or Hield for something sweet during or after the season.

I personally believe the Hawks significantly overpaid for Bogdanovic. He is a solid 28 year old role player...a rotation guy whose perception became exaggerated by "NBA Twitter". Kings already have several overpaid rotation players in Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield and Corey Joseph. I think it is a bad way to build an NBA team.

[adkindo]

That's got to be the owner, right?

while I am not so much against this decision, Vivek Ranadivé has been a owner that makes poor decisions. I do think the new GM Vivek Ranadivé along with Joe Dumars are taking the right approach in not rushing the rebuild, and building around Fox's timeline. The mistake the Kings likely made was not trading Bogdanovic last season.

[M2]

I personally believe the Hawks significantly overpaid for Bogdanovic. He is a solid 28 year old role player...a rotation guy whose perception became exaggerated by "NBA Twitter". Kings already have several overpaid rotation players in Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield and Corey Joseph. I think it is a bad way to build an NBA team.

They're all in that sweet spot where you can move those contracts in a package for an actual star. And there's nothing wrong with solid. If the Kings had kept Bogdanovic, they'd have a deeper team. He's an asset and they let him walk for nothing.

[Revering4Blue]

while I am not so much against this decision, Vivek Ranadivé has been a owner that makes poor decisions. I do think the new GM Vivek Ranadivé along with Joe Dumars are taking the right approach in not rushing the rebuild, and building around Fox's timeline. The mistake the Kings likely made was not trading Bogdanovic last season.You nailed the real issue: The failure to deal Bogdanovic last season.

Also agree about building around Fox's timeline, which entails minutes for Haliburton, Ramsey and Woodard II at the expense of Bogdanovic's minutes. And retaining Bogdanovic would have given the KIngs another albatross contract - along with Barnes and Hield - which would have required the use of significant draft compensation to unload. Much like 2015, when Jason Thompson and Carl Landry were unloaded - well, their contracts anyway - to Philly along with significant draft compensation.


Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[M2]

You nailed the real issue: The failure to deal Bogdanovic last season.

Also agree about building around Fox's timeline, which entails minutes for Haliburton, Ramsey and Woodard II at the expense of Bogdanovic's minutes. And retaining Bogdanovic would have given the KIngs another albatross contract - along with Barnes and Hield - which would have required the use of significant draft compensation to unload. Much like 2015, when Jason Thompson and Carl Landry were unloaded - well, their contracts anyway - to Philly along with significant draft compensation.

I don't think Ramsey and Woodard fit Fox's timeline. If Fox takes another step and hits star level, the Kings need to be ready to win when that happens. Otherwise he's going to get frustrated about the endless wait for a contending season that never comes. Bogdanovic was wanted by both the Bucks and Hawks (and I suspect a few other teams would love to have him). He's a guy they'd be able to move for draft picks, not with draft picks.

And if a player like KAT hits the market, Bogdanovic is the sort of guy who makes that package work (with MB3 and other stuff). My general take is contracts in the $15M-$25M are good to have, provided the guy can play. They're how you leverage you way into stars, especially if you're not a destination market. Keeping a pile of cap space open and hoping someone takes your money doesn't seem to net results for smaller market teams.

[Kingspoint]

That's got to be the owner, right?

Petrie did really well under the previous owners and then did poorly under the automobile brothers.

[adkindo]

while I am not so much against this decision, Vivek Ranadivé has been a owner that makes poor decisions. I do think the new GM Vivek Ranadivé along with Joe Dumars are taking the right approach in not rushing the rebuild, and building around Fox's timeline. The mistake the Kings likely made was not trading Bogdanovic last season.

I meant the new GM Monte McNair

[M2]

Petrie did really well under the previous owners and then did poorly under the automobile brothers.

I think my aunt dated Geoff Petrie in high school.

[Revering4Blue]

I don't think Ramsey and Woodard fit Fox's timeline. If Fox takes another step and hits star level, the Kings need to be ready to win when that happens. Otherwise he's going to get frustrated about the endless wait for a contending season that never comes. Bogdanovic was wanted by both the Bucks and Hawks (and I suspect a few other teams would love to have him). He's a guy they'd be able to move for draft picks, not with draft picks.

And if a player like KAT hits the market, Bogdanovic is the sort of guy who makes that package work (with MB3 and other stuff). My general take is contracts in the $15M-$25M are good to have, provided the guy can play. They're how you leverage you way into stars, especially if you're not a destination market. Keeping a pile of cap space open and hoping someone takes your money doesn't seem to net results for smaller market teams.

That depends on how you define a contending season. Contending for the 7th or 8th spot in a loaded West, along with the virtual first round casualty as a result of the best-of-seven format? Sure, resign Bogo and overcap yourself, leaving you little, if any, cap flexibility. And good luck dealing Bogdanovic for anything meaningful without adding draft compensation due to his 15 per cent trade kicker, while losing all leverage in dictating the when and where you'd like to deal him. You'd now be following the Hornet's blueprint (signing Jefferson in '13 and Hayward one week ago): A ceiling of, at best, treadmill status beckons.

No getting around it, this franchise needs at least one more season in the lottery, along with astute, low cost, short term veteran roster augmentation - think Indiana's signings of McBuckets and Tyreke Evans for example - before even thinking of approaching the 6th or higher playoff positions, in which the chances of advancing increase exponentially. And I'll be surprised if Haliburton alone doesn't compensate for the loss of Bogdanovic, and he needs to play, regardless of the '21 season's win-loss record.

[Kingspoint]

I think my aunt dated Geoff Petrie in high school.

Did she end up with an Ivy League man?

[BillDoran]

The Kings are trying to build around a trio of Fox, Hield and Bagley. Bogdonavic was extraneous.

Thinking you can win anything but a spot in the lottery with that big three is nuts. Throw in Luke Walton as the coach, and, yeesh, I pity Kings fans.

[M2]

Did she end up with an Ivy League man?

Absolutely not.

[RedTeamGo!]

The Kings are trying to build around a trio of Fox, Hield and Bagley. Bogdonavic was extraneous.

Thinking you can win anything but a spot in the lottery with that big three is nuts. Throw in Luke Walton as the coach, and, yeesh, I pity Kings fans.

I feel like I have met fans from most professional sports teams. I have never met a Kings fan.

[adkindo]

I feel like I have met fans from most professional sports teams. I have never met a Kings fan.

yeah, they do not have a large national fan base from what I can tell, but the one thing the do have (I have been told and read) is a very supportive local fan base. They are supposedly a little more "thick and thin" than many small market teams local fan bases.

[BillDoran]

I feel like I have met fans from most professional sports teams. I have never met a Kings fan.

They were the big NBA League Pass darlings at the turn of the century. Everybody loved the CWebb/Peja/White Chocolate/Vlade Kings. They were a lot of fun. Of course, not the diehard, foundational fans you're talking about, but they were every NBA fans' second favorite team for half a decade.

[adkindo]

They were the big NBA League Pass darlings at the turn of the century. Everybody loved the CWebb/Peja/White Chocolate/Vlade Kings. They were a lot of fun. Of course, not the diehard, foundational fans you're talking about, but they were every NBA fans' second favorite team for half a decade.

the cost of NBA Pass is a bargain if you get to watch White Chocolate. Too bad Williams was gone in 2001-02 and 2002-03 which was their best rosters of CWebb, Peja, Vlade, Bibby, Christie, Hedo, Pollard, Bobby Jackson, etc.

[M2]

That depends on how you define a contending season. Contending for the 7th or 8th spot in a loaded West, along with the virtual first round casualty as a result of the best-of-seven format? Sure, resign Bogo and overcap yourself, leaving you little, if any, cap flexibility. And good luck dealing Bogdanovic for anything meaningful without adding draft compensation due to his 15 per cent trade kicker, while losing all leverage in dictating the when and where you'd like to deal him. You'd now be following the Hornet's blueprint (signing Jefferson in '13 and Hayward one week ago): A ceiling of, at best, treadmill status beckons.

No getting around it, this franchise needs at least one more season in the lottery, along with astute, low cost, short term veteran roster augmentation - think Indiana's signings of McBuckets and Tyreke Evans for example - before even thinking of approaching the 6th or higher playoff positions, in which the chances of advancing increase exponentially. And I'll be surprised if Haliburton alone doesn't compensate for the loss of Bogdanovic, and he needs to play, regardless of the '21 season's win-loss record.

I think this touches on the fundamental problem the Kings face (which gets at why they should have kept Bogdanovic). They've spent 14 years in the lottery. We can fault them for bad drafting, though it's also a cautionary tale that the draft really is a crap shoot. Obviously Steph over Tyreke would have put them on a different arc. Yet Tyreke did win, and deserve, the ROY. MB3 over Luka Doncic will haunt them, and they'd have visions of joining the elite if they made that pick. Yet common wisdom at the time was they made the right pick (with a very vocal minority).

In the grand scheme of things they've gotten a decent enough haul with Fox, MB3 and Haliburton. That may not be jackpot, but they're paying the max for Fox starting next season and they've got to try to make a go of it. What they're going to need to do is make a killer trade or two. No elite free agent is going to Sacramento, especially given how long they've been in the wilderness. And to make trades, you need to have a collection of legit players and swappable contracts. Bogdanovic is legit. The Bucks viewed him as a key piece for a title contender. The Hawks think he'll put them in the playoffs. Teams want that guy and respect what he can do. The Kings could have found minutes for Fox-Hield-Bogdanovic-Haliburton. Play with three guards at times. Nothing wrong with that. Probably would have been fun to watch. Finishing 7-8 shouldn't be the ultimate goal, but it would be the best Kings season in 15 years. It would be cause for optimism.

And if a big fish hits the market, Bogdanovic or Hield would be a dependable pro to send in the other direction. The Kings would still have been slightly under the cap with the Bogdanovic contract. They didn't have to let the asset walk. He's not an all-star, but he's a good player, and the Kings should be erring on the side of keeping good players. IMO, that puts them closer to acquiring an all-star. They'd have a buffet of options to choose from for whomever the selling club is. They've done well enough in recent drafts that they're probably not going to have super high draft picks. They're going to be capped out once the Fox extension hits. What they can do right now is hoard as many players as possible and then try to spin that into gold later.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I like the Hield, Fox, Haliburton backcourt a great deal and believe they'll spend the majority of crunch time together. Having Jahmi'us Ramsey behind them should provide a four-guard unit that's athletic, has plenty of playmaking, and defensively adept.

The frontcourt is a mess, IMO. My opinion on Bagley is well-known-- that was a massive mistake that will haunt them for decades. Harrison Barnes is also, at best a second-division scorer and defender. He's too expensive to be a 3-and-D guy and too egotistical to take on that role on the first place. (Allegedly.) He would be an ideal small ball PF, but is loathe to bang with the big bodies underneath. Last year, he didn't guard anyone at all, preferring to get out on the break to try and score easy points. Whether that was a coaching choice or Barnes' own focus is anyone's guess.

Which brings us to management. Richaun Holmes was a pleasant surprise who showed both a deft touch and toughness, so naturally, the Kings went out and signed two center renowned for their softness to play ahead of him. Bagley's a center in a PF body (and bad knees), but hey, he went to Duke, so he must be good, right? Not happy enough to do it once, they opted for twice the Dukie, adding Jabari Parker as well. To add on top of the poop sundae, Walton is perhaps the worst coach in the NBA.

The plan seems to be to get everyone major minutes this year, suck, and perhaps grab a high lottery selection wherein they might find more help. Haliburton and Ramsey were great picks. There's the hope for the future (along with Fox and, most likely, whatever they can get from dealing Hield).

[klw]

I think my aunt dated Geoff Petrie in high school.

As Petie is 72, that fact sort of dates your aunt.

[M2]

Whiteside and Parker do feel like sabotage for a team that probably needs to be in a good head space to succeed.

Agreed about the consequences of the MB3 pick. Doncic dropping to #2 should have been treated like miraculous good fortune. Also agreed about MB3's position. If you've got no stretch or switchability in your game, I don't think you're really a #4 in the modern game.

[Kingspoint]

I feel like I have met fans from most professional sports teams. I have never met a Kings fan.

When you move from Cincinnati to Kansas City to Omaha to Sacramento it's kind of hard to establish roots.

[Kingspoint]

I like the Hield, Fox, Haliburton backcourt a great deal and believe they'll spend the majority of crunch time together. Having Jahmi'us Ramsey behind them should provide a four-guard unit that's athletic, has plenty of playmaking, and defensively adept.

The frontcourt is a mess, IMO. My opinion on Bagley is well-known-- that was a massive mistake that will haunt them for decades. Harrison Barnes is also, at best a second-division scorer and defender. He's too expensive to be a 3-and-D guy and too egotistical to take on that role on the first place. (Allegedly.) He would be an ideal small ball PF, but is loathe to bang with the big bodies underneath. Last year, he didn't guard anyone at all, preferring to get out on the break to try and score easy points. Whether that was a coaching choice or Barnes' own focus is anyone's guess.

Which brings us to management. Richaun Holmes was a pleasant surprise who showed both a deft touch and toughness, so naturally, the Kings went out and signed two center renowned for their softness to play ahead of him. Bagley's a center in a PF body (and bad knees), but hey, he went to Duke, so he must be good, right? Not happy enough to do it once, they opted for twice the Dukie, adding Jabari Parker as well. To add on top of the poop sundae, Walton is perhaps the worst coach in the NBA.

The plan seems to be to get everyone major minutes this year, suck, and perhaps grab a high lottery selection wherein they might find more help. Haliburton and Ramsey were great picks. There's the hope for the future (along with Fox and, most likely, whatever they can get from dealing Hield).

I mentioned this last season, that whenever Holmes was on the floor, everyone around him became instantly better and the Kings were capable of beating anyone that night. He has the Marcus Smart/Jimmy Butler/Kahwi Leonard intangibles where they do whatever is necessary that night to win games. Because he's so active he's probably the most effective if he's playing 28-30 minutes. He has to be on the floor to close out the last six minutes of each half. I'd play him for 9 to start the game, the last 6 of the 1st half, 6 to start the 2nd half, and the final 9 minutes. If the Kings have put the game away or are on the wrong end of a loss, then he comes out the last 2 to 4 minutes. This way he's playing 26-30 minutes per game, plus 5 if OT. I'd always have Fox on the floor with him. Pair him with another intelligent Wing and that's a good three to have on the court together. I'm sure Dumars recognizes his talent as that was Joe's forte.

Hopefully, they start Holmes and Whiteside comes off the bench behind him for about 18-22 minutes per night with the 2nd unit or if Holmes misses games, he can start.

[texasdave]

When you move from Cincinnati to Kansas City to Omaha to Sacramento it's kind of hard to establish roots.

From Rochester to Cincinnati to Kansas City to Omaha to Sacramento. They relocated further west with each stop. I have a feeling they are going to eventually end up the Hawaiian King's Rolls.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Speaking of the Kings, they signed Glenn Robinson III today. That's a solid depth signing. He actually had a good half-season in Golden State. He can shoot. Won't defend much, but neither did Bogdanovich. He's also two years younger than Bogdan, despite being in the league for half a decade.

I'm not sure what the Kings can do with him-- unless they want to deal Harrison Barnes. (Yes, please.)

[Revering4Blue]

the cost of NBA Pass is a bargain if you get to watch White Chocolate. Too bad Williams was gone in 2001-02 and 2002-03 which was their best rosters of CWebb, Peja, Vlade, Bibby, Christie, Hedo, Pollard, Bobby Jackson, etc.

CWebb's injury in the '03 playoffs, forcing him to miss nearly one entire season, was devastating to the franchise, as he was never the same player after that. Especially when you consider the Summer '03 sign-and-trade that brought Brad Miller to Sacramento, who was a clear upgrade from Pollard.

Given the big man-centric NBA landscape at the time, a three man rotation of a healthy Webber, Vlade and Miller (an "04 All-Star) would have been difficult for opposing teams to handle, allowing the Kings to continue seriously contending until at least '06 or so, perhaps longer.

[Revering4Blue]

When you move from Cincinnati to Kansas City to Omaha to Sacramento it's kind of hard to establish roots.

Confining this discussion to the non-Royals era - 1972 to the present - once the franchise began playing exclusively in Kansas City circa '77 in the then-spacious Kemper Arena, despite often putting exciting, competitive teams on the floor, the Kings were, oddly enough, largely ignored in Kansas City.

And while I concur with others about the late '90's -early aughts Sacramento Kings as a fun to watch team, I really enjoyed the Otis Birdsong, Scott Wedman, Sam Lacey (for my money, the most underrated center ever with a complete all-around game) teams.

[Revering4Blue]

Speaking of the Kings, they signed Glenn Robinson III today. That's a solid depth signing. He actually had a good half-season in Golden State. He can shoot. Won't defend much, but neither did Bogdanovich. He's also two years younger than Bogdan, despite being in the league for half a decade.

I'm not sure what the Kings can do with him-- unless they want to deal Harrison Barnes. (Yes, please.)

Vlade made some sound moves as GM. But the Barnes, Hield (to a certain extent) and Joseph contracts - as well as Walton as coach - were poor moves. While Hield may accrue some value moving forward relative to his contract, Barnes and Joseph, I'm afraid, must be treated as sunk costs, as they are both basically untradeable at this point.

Nevertheless, the Kings absolutely killed it during this draft and none of the free agents signed so far this offseason were signed to longterm deals. GR III, IMHO, was the best fre agent signing of the three. The only one of the three signings that was somewhat questionable is Kaminsky. Then again, someone needs to fill minutes if (when) MB III misses time and/or Bjelica is possibly dealt at the deadline.

[adkindo]

the rest of the league is in trouble now....Lakers bringing back Dudley (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30424134/jared-dudley-returning-los-angeles-lakers-1-year-deal)!

[Betterread]

Vlade made some sound moves as GM. But the Barnes, Hield (to a certain extent) and Joseph contracts - as well as Walton as coach - were poor moves. While Hield may accrue some value moving forward relative to his contract, Barnes and Joseph, I'm afraid, must be treated as sunk costs, as they are both basically untradeable at this point.

Nevertheless, the Kings absolutely killed it during this draft and none of the free agents signed so far this offseason were signed to longterm deals. GR III, IMHO, was the best fre agent signing of the three. The only one of the three signings that was somewhat questionable is Kaminsky. Then again, someone needs to fill minutes if (when) MB III misses time and/or Bjelica is possibly dealt at the deadline.

Reminds me of Game of Zones from April 2018:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBkT5oLtFy4

[texasdave]

Hard to believe, but the NBA ramps back up in just 3 weeks.

[adkindo]

Hard to believe, but the NBA ramps back up in just 3 weeks.

have to think the ratings may be pretty bad....there just has not been enough time for the non diehard fan to miss it

[Kingspoint]

have to think the ratings may be pretty bad....there just has not been enough time for the non diehard fan to miss it

Everyone is stuck indoors. They have a captive audience.

[texasdave]

Kemba Walker received a stem cell injection into knee, and will miss the early part of the season.

[BillDoran]

Kemba Walker received a stem cell injection into knee, and will miss the early part of the season.

Not ideal for your 30-year-old PG with a three year deal at $35 million per. Hope he returns at full Kemba.

[WVRed]

Russell Westbrook traded to Washington for John Wall and a protected 2023 1st round pick.

Wall and Cousins reunited.

[Rojo Rijo]

Wall, Cousins, and the Beard.

85-90% chance it implodes but my goodness if it gels that will be a potent team.

[BillDoran]

Wall, Cousins, and the Beard.

85-90% chance it implodes but my goodness if it gels that will be a potent team.

I don't know. Both Wall and Cousins are wild cards at this point. I'd bet on either being out of the league in a few years before making an All Star squad. Cousins is 30 and hasn't played more than 48 games in a season since 2017. Same idea with Wall. Also 30, he's played 73 games over the past three seasons. Both were great at Kentucky and shined early in the NBA, but the bloom is off the rose. They're just some dudes now (and Wall comes with almost $130 million due over the next three years).

[WVRed]

Wall, Cousins, and the Beard.

85-90% chance it implodes but my goodness if it gels that will be a potent team.

They should have kept D’Antoni if they were going to trade for Wall.

[Rojo Rijo]

I don't know. Both Wall and Cousins are wild cards at this point. I'd bet on either being out of the league in a few years before making an All Star squad. Cousins is 30 and hasn't played more than 48 games in a season since 2017. Same idea with Wall. Also 30, he's played 73 games over the past three seasons. Both were great at Kentucky and shined early in the NBA, but the bloom is off the rose. They're just some dudes now (and Wall comes with almost $130 million due over the next three years).

Oddly enough I think Wall and Harden will compliment each other well. Wall has looked strong per reports. Cousins is a wild card but if he’s 75% of the player he was in New Orleans he’ll be worth it.

If they go with a Wall/Gordon/Harden/Cousins/Wood lineup that’ll be fun to see.

[BillDoran]

Oddly enough I think Wall and Harden will compliment each other well. Wall has looked strong per reports. Cousins is a wild card but if he’s 75% of the player he was in New Orleans he’ll be worth it.

If they go with a Wall/Gordon/Harden/Cousins/Wood lineup that’ll be fun to see.

That lineup is intriguing. Hadn't heard the reports on Wall's rehab, and last I saw him he was looking awful puffy. Hope it works out in Houston, because they are certainly pot committed on contracts.

[M2]

I kind of like Russ and Beal as a pairing. They certainly won't be boring. DC could be a bit of a sleeper team in the East. Certainly seem like a leading contender for that 7-10 play-in game mix.

[Kingspoint]

Left to avoid COVID on their own even after an incredibly intense training about avoiding it, 8% of the NBA players just tested positive. This is going to be a disaster....the teams that win the most games will be the ones that avoid COVID the best.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If they go with a Wall/Gordon/Harden/Cousins/Wood lineup that’ll be fun to see.

What's interesting is its ability to score at every position and at every spot on the court. None of the guys they have are knockdown shooters, but all of them-- with the exception of Wall (who's still a much better shooter than Westbrook)-- are good enough and willing enough that you have to respect that shot. And they will take them in bunches, I'm guessing. I'm curious how the offense will work. Wall will want to push tempo early, and Wood and House should get quite a bit of run (and a few easy buckets) running to the rim. That'll set up Harden and perhaps Cousins for secondary break opportunities against a stretched defense.

Pick and rolls are going to be lethal. Cousins is an extremely underrated pick setter-- it's one of his hidden skills-- and Wall and Harden are both next-gen play makers with heads of steam. I'm guessing Rocket fans are going to see that high pick and roll (at the top of the three-point line) over and over, especially late in possessions. Five-out offense? Almost for sure. And what's more, the rebounding shouldn't suffer. Both Wood and Cousins are elite space rebounders (if Wood's small samples and Cousin's health are excepted), as are Harden and Wall from their respective positions. They'll be nearly impossible to trap, as they have two exceptional play makers, plus Cousins and Gordon-- two excellent and willing passers and ball handlers.

What's questionable is how they'll defend. Or, more to the point, if they'll defend. Wall can be a lockdown defender, but he was lackadaisical at best his last couple of seasons in DC, and he's getting a bit older. Cousins is (much) better than he gets credit for, but he's lumbering, awkward, and oftentimes lazy defensively. Wood isn't lockdown as a big-- and he struggled in Detroit last season defending wings in space. Harden takes plays off too. The bench will help in that regard-- and Eric Gordon will have to It's an ultra-talented YMCA squad, basically-- they're going to try to outscore you.

Yet, this team is built for the playoffs (assuming it remains intact). Cousins defending Jokic or Gasol or even Wiseman? That's doable. Wood on AD, Green, or Porter? If I'm Houston, I can live with that. Harden played LeBron credibly last year (and has for years) and should be able to keep up with whatever Oubre or the Barton can do. Wall can go all death bomb on Dennis Schroder again, as an added bonus. Gordon can defend Murray, then hand him off to Wall, who has the quickness and strength to keep up with him and the athleticism to still bother his shots.

Mostly, I love that Houston is trying something brand new on the fly, fearless in the face of Harden's desire to escape. There's the question of if he'll buy in, of course, but I hope he will. This team is better now than it was at the end of the year. Significantly so, IMO.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I kind of like Russ and Beal as a pairing. They certainly won't be boring. DC could be a bit of a sleeper team in the East. Certainly seem like a leading contender for that 7-10 play-in game mix.

There's a narrative that Westbrook will lay waste to most Eastern Conference point guards, but who's going to struggle with his physicality? Milwaukee has Holiday (and Giannis inside). Boston has Smart. Philly has Simmons, who's a next-gen 6'10" Westbrook without the propensity to clank bricks from 28 feet. Miami has Jimmy Butler. Even Toronto has Kyle Lowry, who's strong enough to keep Westbrook relatively in check.

Kyrie may struggle with his sheer force of will. Orlando? Sure. Cole Anthony and Markelle Fultz could well struggle to contain him. Charlotte will be hopeless against him, but they're hopeless against everybody. Atlanta probably won't be able to stop him, but they haven't defended anyone well for a decade? Chicago? Pssshht. Who cares?

Don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to the inevitable Marcus Smart/ Westbrook fistfight-- and the Joel Embiid cheap shot that sends Westbrook flying into the stands. (Or the Westbrook cheap shot that sends Embiid to the floor in pain and to Instagram for a snarky comment.) But the idea that Westbrook's going to run roughshod over the East's weak sister PGs is overblown, IMO. He'll be what he's always been-- big stats guy, near triple double guy who loses multiple games in the playoffs nearly by himself and wins others in the same fashion. In the worst of all worlds, he's what he was in last year's playoffs.

And DC already has issues guarding people. Beal's not going to do the heavy lifting, for sure. Bertans isn't built for it. Nor is Thomas Bryant (who might actually struggle with Westbrook as his primary PG). I'm struggling to see how this move make the Wiz a playoff team more than pass-first John Wall would have.

[M2]

No one really knows what John Wall will be when he comes back. Russ is much more known quantity. Top 10 make the playoffs this year. The Wiz finished 9th last season and they're unquestionably better on paper now than they were last season.

And DC definitely won't be playing defense. Their games are going to be frenetic. I don't expect Russ to dominate every PG in the East, but Russ and Beal are going to put up some serious volume numbers. It'll be a high wire season and probably a high wire play-in game and then possibly a high wire playoff series. Are they a serious contender? No, but I dare you to look away.

[RichRed]

No one really knows what John Wall will be when he comes back. Russ is much more known quantity. Top 10 make the playoffs this year. The Wiz finished 9th last season and they're unquestionably better on paper now than they were last season.

And DC definitely won't be playing defense. Their games are going to be frenetic. I don't expect Russ to dominate every PG in the East, but Russ and Beal are going to put up some serious volume numbers. It'll be a high wire season and probably a high wire play-in game and then possibly a high wire playoff series. Are they a serious contender? No, but I dare you to look away.

Kinda how I feel about it. I look forward to all the 160-158 games. Like you say, the Wiz at least won't be boring and when you spend most years not being relevant, that counts for something. And an underrated aspect of all this is the Wizards simply not getting ravaged in a trade. That's a step up from the Grunfeld era and gives me some hope.

[BillDoran]

Wizards' rotation right now would include: Beal, Westbrook, Betrans, Deni Avdija, Rui Hachimura, Robin Lopez, Thomas Bryant, Ish Smith and Mo Wagner?

Assuming Westbrook doesn't walk all over Beal, those pieces seem like they could work well together. Some real shooting. Some playmaking. Need some more legitimate size and depth, but that's a team that could fight its way into the second tier of the East.

Worth noting that Russ and Scott Brooks know each other quite well from their seven seasons together in OKC. If Brooks signed off or encouraged the deal, all the more reason to be excited.

[Betterread]

I am impressed with the optimism on this board for the Wall-Rockets and Russ-Bullets fits. Collectively, i sense the wish to see more teams playing good basketball, rather than looking for potential problems.
I am no fan of Wall’s selfish and lazy game and Russ’s ball dominant stat chasing game but if they look in the mirror and see that the change in scenery was due to certain aspects of their games, they definitely have the talent and athleticism to modify their games to play winning baseketball.
The biggest adjustment is to stop shooting 3s so much, when they can’t make them at an acceptable level.
I do wonder if Houston and Wash. really want to compete, or if these moves are parts of rebuilding plans for both.

[BillDoran]

I am impressed with the optimism on this board for the Wall-Rockets and Russ-Bullets fits. Collectively, i sense the wish to see more teams playing good basketball, rather than looking for potential problems.
I am no fan of Wall’s selfish and lazy game and Russ’s ball dominant stat chasing game but if they look in the mirror and see that the change in scenery was due to certain aspects of their games, they definitely have the talent and athleticism to modify their games to play winning baseketball.
The biggest adjustment is to stop shooting 3s so much, when they can’t make them at an acceptable level.
I do wonder if Houston and Wash. really want to compete, or if they this is a part of a rebuilding plan.

I'm with you on the bearishness. Both Wall and Russ are likely on the downside of their careers. In order for their teams to be successful, both will need to accept second banana status (which...).

However, both the Wizards and Rockets are all-in. They don't have much choice. Both have two enormous contracts around their necks. The Russ-Wall swap was effectively cost neutral (2+player option at ~$42 million per for both). I don't know how good either team will be, but they're paying for two stars. Might as well try to fill in the rest of the roster as best you can.

[Puffy]

That lineup is intriguing. Hadn't heard the reports on Wall's rehab, and last I saw him he was looking awful puffy. Hope it works out in Houston, because they are certainly pot committed on contracts.

Ummm, excuse me???? I don't make fun of your looks, do I?

[Rojo Rijo]

My knowledge of Walls health is limited to his recent scrimmages at Zormelo runs where he has looked good and very much in shape.

Houston just needs to focus on making Wall and Harden gel. If they end up in a situation where the option of playing them together is 1a and 1b is more lineup/rest management where they don’t play together it may work well in the regular season but they’ll be no higher than a 5 seed max and they’ll struggle to get through a tough 2nd rd matchup.

[Rojo Rijo]

Aminu nowhere near return per reports and Bamba is still dealing with COVID 19 symptoms from a June diagnosis. Add no Isaac for this year on top of that and the only thing I’m excited about is Cole Anthony and getting a bottom 3 finish to have the best lotto odds at the #1 pick

Oh and maybe we’ll finally cash in some value on somebody at the TDL. Vuc, AG, Fournier trades, any would be music to my ears.

[Kingspoint]

Aminu nowhere near return per reports and Bamba is still dealing with COVID 19 symptoms from a June diagnosis. Add no Isaac for this year on top of that and the only thing I’m excited about is Cole Anthony and getting a bottom 3 finish to have the best lotto odds at the #1 pick

Oh and maybe we’ll finally cash in some value on somebody at the TDL. Vuc, AG, Fournier trades, any would be music to my ears.

Yeah, Aminu had a setback from the January surgery and just had another procedure this week. That's the toughest part about COVID, rehabs are monitored poorly compared to normal. Like Wall, Zach Collins and others who basically have mutliple missed years in a row, nobody knows what they're going to get,and the older they are the bigger the dropoff in production should occur with the older guys never ever getting close to what they used to be.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I am no fan of Wall’s selfish and lazy game...

How is John Wall selfish?

[Betterread]

In 2018, Zach Lowe cited the stat that John Wall spent 76.57 percent of his floor time standing still, the highest percentage of any rotation player, even beating out a 40 yr old Dirk Nowtizki. One example of this was described as “ this is what it looks like when your controller dies in the middle of a game”.

I can’t decide if that is more selfish or more lazy but there are aspects of both involved.

[Bourgeois Zee]

No one really knows what John Wall will be when he comes back. Russ is much more known quantity. Top 10 make the playoffs this year. The Wiz finished 9th last season and they're unquestionably better on paper now than they were last season.

Right now, I still have them 9th:

1. Milwaukee
2. Boston
3. Brooklyn
4. Philadelphia
5. Miami
6. Toronto
7. Indiana
8. Atlanta

New York and Cleveland are horrid. They're probably a level or two better than Orlando and Charlotte. Worst case, one or both of Detroit and Chicago stay healthy and develop, pushing them to the playoff hinterlands. Best case, maybe they beat out a sneaky-good Atlanta squad and Indiana squabbles its way down the rabbit hole of adequacy.

BTW, Houston could ranks anywhere from 5th to 12th in my pre-season list. That entire conference is hard to figure. (Go ahead and tell me where Dallas ranks, for example. Or Memphis. Or NOLA. Or Utah.)

[Bourgeois Zee]

In 2018, Zach Lowe cited the stat that John Wall spent 76.57 of his floor time standing still, the highest percentage of any rotation player, even beating out a 40 yr old Dirk Nowtizki. One example of this was described as “ this is what it looks like when your controller dies in the middle of a game”.

I get the lazy lob, sure.

How is he selfish?

[Betterread]

I get the lazy lob, sure.

How is he selfish?

What do you call it when a player isn’t getting back on defense, or not trying at all to get open for a teammate?

[Betterread]

The NBA has released another tranche of City edition jerseys and my favorite is the Indiana jersey:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/12/01/indiana-pacers-unveil-city-jerseys-available-dec-3/6475628002/

[Bourgeois Zee]

What do you call it when a player isn’t getting back on defense, or not trying at all to get open for a teammate?

Lazy.

Selfish would be hogging the ball and refusing to pass to open teammates. For his faults, Wall was not that.

And to be clear, "not getting open for his teammates" is kind of a misnomer. The Wiz offense under Brooks, up until Wall's injury, at least, had been a three-out, two-in system, typical for pro ball in the 1990s. This offense is predicated on precise spacing and roles. Wall was not just the primary ball handler but the only offensive initiator for the offense. The Wizards' favorite offensive set, for example, is one where Wall walks the ball up the court, while the DC wings get double picks near the elbows from their two bigs. Wall typically has nowhere to run with the ball in that set. Too, because the secondary play makers (Beal and Porter in the season you mentioned) can then make plays via drive or pass, Wall has to stay put up top for spacing issues.

It's similar with other sets they ran. When not in their base, they also did a lot of screen-the-screener plays up top, which necessitate Wall using tempo (ie, walking or jogging the ball to the left or right of the screen), so that the shooter can peel off the screen for shots. Having two post players (Morris and Gortat, for most of his career) has necessitated Wall being a static piece on offense.

After Wall's injury, Brook's redesigned his offense pushing pick and rolls and "lip" sets in four-out (or occasionally five-out) concepts. Roles became much more fluid (as Brooks himself said in multiple interviews). He pushed Beal to do more with the ball, and to his credit, he did just that. It helped that, by that time, Thomas Bryant-- a willing and capable shooter-- had mostly replaced Gortat and Morris had become a much more willing shooter as well. Last year, Brooks went even further in that direction, with Bertans replacing Porter as the deep sniper and everyone playing outside the three-point line. They also pushed the pace to an extreme level.

- - - Updated - - -


The NBA has released another tranche of City edition jerseys and my favorite is the Indiana jersey:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2020/12/01/indiana-pacers-unveil-city-jerseys-available-dec-3/6475628002/

I dig Miami's. (As always.)

[M2]

Wizards' rotation right now would include: Beal, Westbrook, Betrans, Deni Avdija, Rui Hachimura, Robin Lopez, Thomas Bryant, Ish Smith and Mo Wagner?

Don't forget about Troy Brown Jr. He was rounding into a real nice starting SF at the end of the season.

[M2]

Right now, I still have them 9th:

1. Milwaukee
2. Boston
3. Brooklyn
4. Philadelphia
5. Miami
6. Toronto
7. Indiana
8. Atlanta

New York and Cleveland are horrid. They're probably a level or two better than Orlando and Charlotte. Worst case, one or both of Detroit and Chicago stay healthy and develop, pushing them to the playoff hinterlands. Best case, maybe they beat out a sneaky-good Atlanta squad and Indiana squabbles its way down the rabbit hole of adequacy.

BTW, Houston could ranks anywhere from 5th to 12th in my pre-season list. That entire conference is hard to figure. (Go ahead and tell me where Dallas ranks, for example. Or Memphis. Or NOLA. Or Utah.)

9th buys them a ticket to the play-in. Sounds about right. Most miserable team in the East is going to be whoever gets the #7 seed. That's going to be a team that had much higher expectations.

I can't figure out the West either.

[Bourgeois Zee]

9th buys them a ticket to the play-in. Sounds about right. Most miserable team in the East is going to be whoever gets the #7 seed. That's going to be a team that had much higher expectations.

I can't figure out the West either.

Oh, yeah-- that 7th seed in either league is so screwed.

The teams I'm interested in out West right now are the Warriors, the Suns, Rockets, and the Timberwolves.

I want Stephen Curry to go for 40 a night just because he can. With Oubre and Wiggins at the wings, an interested and invested Green at PF, and Wiseman as a rim-running athletic marvel, I want to see Kerr open it wide open and just grip it and rip it. Try to score 150 a night. Go full on Loyola Marymount Hank Gather/ Bo Kimble Era. Let Green and Wiseman gobble up whatever rebounds there might be. Let Curry leak early every trip downcourt. Heck, let him snowbird so much he should move to Florida.

In Phoenix, I'm curious if Chris Paul can negate Sarver's worst tendencies and bring that team out of their funk and into the limelight. It'd be a hell of a career coda, for sure. I'm hoping Booker shows off his halcyon bubble days consistently, with that new-found bubble tenacity and dagger after dagger. I want to see Saric as a play-making PF-- or center-- like he was in the bubble. And I want to see Mikal Bridges take another step forward. Like that team's makeup right now, assuming Ayton's head is on right. If he's not, it's nearly as good a story anyway. Chris Paul might just murder him.

Houston is going to be crazy whether their plan works or it doesn't. It's a train wreck in the most beautiful of ways. That team could legitimately win the championship-- three All-NBA level players? Got it. All three of them bathouse crazy? Yup. They might lead the league in technicals, free throws, and ejections. And three pointers. And elbows. And beards. I can't decide if they're going to be the league bullies/ villains or if they're going to be a modern-day Uncle Drew Crew. James Harden might be the first player ever to win an MVP while being completely miserable and winning the championship.

In Minnesota, I want to see what no defense looks like. When the best defender who'll play meaningful minutes is Juan Hernangomez, you know you're going to have to score 140 to win. Thing is, they just might do that enough to make it a blast to watch. KAT's a problem for everyone. Everyone else will get enough shots to have a shot at 20 per night. Five guys on that team could average 15 pts a night. Malik Beasley might just end up an All-Star level wing, and he's their third- or fourth-best scorer. That's crazy.

[adkindo]

Aminu nowhere near return per reports and Bamba is still dealing with COVID 19 symptoms from a June diagnosis. Add no Isaac for this year on top of that and the only thing I’m excited about is Cole Anthony and getting a bottom 3 finish to have the best lotto odds at the #1 pick

Oh and maybe we’ll finally cash in some value on somebody at the TDL. Vuc, AG, Fournier trades, any would be music to my ears.

If I was the Magic, I would blow it up and make sure I get a top pick. If they could land the #1 pick, Cunningham could be a franchise changer.

[M2]

Aminu nowhere near return per reports and Bamba is still dealing with COVID 19 symptoms from a June diagnosis. Add no Isaac for this year on top of that and the only thing I’m excited about is Cole Anthony and getting a bottom 3 finish to have the best lotto odds at the #1 pick

Oh and maybe we’ll finally cash in some value on somebody at the TDL. Vuc, AG, Fournier trades, any would be music to my ears.

Fournier's definitely moving at the deadline. Got to believe Gordon's getting moved too.

[Revering4Blue]

Don't forget about Troy Brown Jr. He was rounding into a real nice starting SF at the end of the season.I suspect he'll be the starting SF unless they opt to pair Hachimura and Betrans as starting forwards. I also wouldn't count out Jerome Robinson and Issac Bonga as rotational pieces.

It's going to be interesting to see how the rotations and starting positions play out for both Washington and Houston in the wake of their collective offseason moves.

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[Revering4Blue]

Fournier's definitely moving at the deadline. Got to believe Gordon's getting moved too.Agreed.

They really need to see what they have in a possible Anthony / Fultz backcourt pairing, as well as Okeke at forward. That's, in essence, an extra first round pick for this season. But, unless they've absolutely blown away with an offer, I highly doubt that Vuc moves this season, regardless of the amount of production from Bamba.


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[Revering4Blue]

What's interesting is its ability to score at every position and at every spot on the court. None of the guys they have are knockdown shooters, but all of them-- with the exception of Wall (who's still a much better shooter than Westbrook)-- are good enough and willing enough that you have to respect that shot. And they will take them in bunches, I'm guessing. I'm curious how the offense will work. Wall will want to push tempo early, and Wood and House should get quite a bit of run (and a few easy buckets) running to the rim. That'll set up Harden and perhaps Cousins for secondary break opportunities against a stretched defense.

Pick and rolls are going to be lethal. Cousins is an extremely underrated pick setter-- it's one of his hidden skills-- and Wall and Harden are both next-gen play makers with heads of steam. I'm guessing Rocket fans are going to see that high pick and roll (at the top of the three-point line) over and over, especially late in possessions. Five-out offense? Almost for sure. And what's more, the rebounding shouldn't suffer. Both Wood and Cousins are elite space rebounders (if Wood's small samples and Cousin's health are excepted), as are Harden and Wall from their respective positions. They'll be nearly impossible to trap, as they have two exceptional play makers, plus Cousins and Gordon-- two excellent and willing passers and ball handlers.

What's questionable is how they'll defend. Or, more to the point, if they'll defend. Wall can be a lockdown defender, but he was lackadaisical at best his last couple of seasons in DC, and he's getting a bit older. Cousins is (much) better than he gets credit for, but he's lumbering, awkward, and oftentimes lazy defensively. Wood isn't lockdown as a big-- and he struggled in Detroit last season defending wings in space. Harden takes plays off too. The bench will help in that regard-- and Eric Gordon will have to It's an ultra-talented YMCA squad, basically-- they're going to try to outscore you.

Yet, this team is built for the playoffs (assuming it remains intact). Cousins defending Jokic or Gasol or even Wiseman? That's doable. Wood on AD, Green, or Porter? If I'm Houston, I can live with that. Harden played LeBron credibly last year (and has for years) and should be able to keep up with whatever Oubre or the Barton can do. Wall can go all death bomb on Dennis Schroder again, as an added bonus. Gordon can defend Murray, then hand him off to Wall, who has the quickness and strength to keep up with him and the athleticism to still bother his shots.

Mostly, I love that Houston is trying something brand new on the fly, fearless in the face of Harden's desire to escape. There's the question of if he'll buy in, of course, but I hope he will. This team is better now than it was at the end of the year. Significantly so, IMO.The Rockets still have Tucker to defend the ADs, Greens and Porter Jrs of the NBA world, and to help space the floor. I suspect Cousins will start, with Wood spelling either Cousins or Tucker, unless Tucker garners some minutes at SF.

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[Rojo Rijo]

Agreed.

They really need to see what they have in a possible Anthony / Fultz backcourt pairing, as well as Okeke at forward. That's, in essence, an extra first round pick for this season. But, unless they've absolutely blown away with an offer, I highly doubt that Vuc moves this season, regardless of the amount of production from Bamba.


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Fultz is going to have to take a big step forward this year, his QO for the next season is 16 million. That's way to much to pay for a PG averaging well under 15 ppg. I don't see Vuc getting moved until next season or the following season when he'll be in the last year of his deal. He's the face of the franchise and the only legit All Star candidate we have. Still I can't help but wonder how valuable he would be to a lot of playoff contenders who would love to have a floor stretching 5 of his quality.

[Rojo Rijo]

Fournier's definitely moving at the deadline. Got to believe Gordon's getting moved too.

Most Orlando fans I talk to believe wherever AG goes next he'll likely figure it out and make that leap to stardom he's never been able to accomplish in Orlando. Not that they truly believe that, just a "would be our luck" mindset. I do think on the right team he could be quite the all around weapon.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If I was the Magic, I would blow it up and make sure I get a top pick. If they could land the #1 pick, Cunningham could be a franchise changer.

Yep.

Blow it up. Keep Okeke, Anthony, and Bone (whom I like as a second unit, push the pace backup). Gary Clarke is interesting as well.

Everyone should be available for picks and bad contracts.

Go full Presti.

[M2]

Most Orlando fans I talk to believe wherever AG goes next he'll likely figure it out and make that leap to stardom he's never been able to accomplish in Orlando. Not that they truly believe that, just a "would be our luck" mindset. I do think on the right team he could be quite the all around weapon.

Somebody should want to find out.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Somebody should want to find out.

What contender needs a hyper-athletic poor-shooting PF, though?

At this point, Gordon is Julius Randle without the rebounding. As a second unit scorer, he's a great fit. But that's pretty much all he is.

Maybe Utah could use him. That's about it, though.

[M2]

What contender needs a hyper-athletic poor-shooting PF, though?

At this point, Gordon is Julius Randle without the rebounding. As a second unit scorer, he's a great fit. But that's pretty much all he is.

Maybe Utah could use him. That's about it, though.

IMO, teams with shooting could use Gordon as a roll man. I suspect that with a lot of space in which to operate, he'd be a handful. He's a particularly fit for that because he passes pretty well too. If you start trying to collapse on him, he'll find the shooters.

[adkindo]

IMO, teams with shooting could use Gordon as a roll man. I suspect that with a lot of space in which to operate, he'd be a handful. He's a particularly fit for that because he passes pretty well too. If you start trying to collapse on him, he'll find the shooters.

If I recall, he is not a terrible shooter at home games.....but can't hit anything in away games. I have always thought Gordon's issues are mental....not sure that is ever improved.

[Kingspoint]

They turned down the same offer HOU got from POR for Covington. Olshey wanted Gordon first. I'm glad they turned him down.

[Bourgeois Zee]

IMO, teams with shooting could use Gordon as a roll man. I suspect that with a lot of space in which to operate, he'd be a handful. He's a particularly fit for that because he passes pretty well too. If you start trying to collapse on him, he'll find the shooters.

What contending teams have enough shooting?

It'd have to be a team that has some cash to spend or a decent contract to share, has a massive hole at PF, can cover Gordon defensively, and has a center that can shoot. Or a team that has a really bad contract. (For example, Charlotte would have been a great pick if Orlando would have been willing to take on Batum's contract along with draft picks.)

Who you got?

[Bourgeois Zee]

They turned down the same offer HOU got from POR for Covington. Olshey wanted Gordon first. I'm glad they turned him down.

Covington fits Portland well.

That said, Gordon would have been an excellent acquisition for the Blazers.

Any halfway decent PF would have been a solid acquisition for the Blazers.

[M2]

What contending teams have enough shooting?

It'd have to be a team that has some cash to spend or a decent contract to share, has a massive hole at PF, can cover Gordon defensively, and has a center that can shoot. Or a team that has a really bad contract. (For example, Charlotte would have been a great pick if Orlando would have been willing to take on Batum's contract along with draft picks.)

Who you got?

I think he'd be a great fit on the Celtics (and, no, I can't figure out how to make the money work). Nuggets, Blazers and Brooklyn all seem like interesting spots for him too.

- - - Updated - - -


Covington fits Portland well.

That said, Gordon would have been an excellent acquisition for the Blazers.

Any halfway decent PF would have been a solid acquisition for the Blazers.

I suspect a team could play Gordon and Covington together. Just sayin'.

[BillDoran]

I think Gordon's overvalued. He's fun to dream on, but it's a lot of empty calories and highlight plays. He's a poor man's Blake Griffin. Griffin with less intensity and no shot. You look at that age and some of the plays he makes and think he'll figure it out some day, but he hasn't done much in the way of improving since entering the league. Also, given his style of play, I'd bet you get some injuries and early injury decline. As the Blazers, I'd rather have him than Covington, but there's no all star future for Gordon.

Personally, I think he's been cursed for his brother sporting a ducktail.

[Rojo Rijo]

I think Gordon's overvalued. He's fun to dream on, but it's a lot of empty calories and highlight plays. He's a poor man's Blake Griffin. Griffin with less intensity and no shot. You look at that age and some of the plays he makes and think he'll figure it out some day, but he hasn't done much in the way of improving since entering the league. Also, given his style of play, I'd bet you get some injuries and early injury decline. As the Blazers, I'd rather have him than Covington, but there's no all star future for Gordon.

Personally, I think he's been cursed for his brother sporting a ducktail.

While I agree on the Griffin comparison somewhat Gordon is a better defender than Blake ever was. Both extremely athletic but Gordon has better agility.

[Rojo Rijo]

What contending teams have enough shooting?

It'd have to be a team that has some cash to spend or a decent contract to share, has a massive hole at PF, can cover Gordon defensively, and has a center that can shoot. Or a team that has a really bad contract. (For example, Charlotte would have been a great pick if Orlando would have been willing to take on Batum's contract along with draft picks.)

Who you got?

Gordon is solid on defense. He’s committed to that end of the floor and has the elite athleticism to guard nearly any position.

[Kingspoint]

Tell KAT COVID is a conspiracy.

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

Karl-Anthony Towns said he lost six additional family members due to the coronavirus this offseason and he acknowledged he hasn't been in a good place mentally since his mom passed. "I play this game more because I just love watching my family members seeing me play a game I was very good and successful at," said Towns. "It always brought a smile for me when I saw my mom at the baseline and in the stands and stuff and having a good time watching me play. It's going to be hard to play. It's going to be difficult to say this is therapy. I don't think this will ever be therapy again for me. But it gives me a chance to relive the good memories I had." Our hearts go out to KAT and his entire family, and while he'll be physically ready for the start of the 2020-21 season, it's obvious that he's been emotionally drained this offseason.

SOURCE: Jon Krawczynski on Twitter

[Bourgeois Zee]

Gordon is solid on defense. He’s committed to that end of the floor and has the elite athleticism to guard nearly any position.

His numbers are hit and miss, but mostly miss. DBRM looked good last year (10th), but were pedestrian at best the years before that. (Typically around 30th among PF.) Defensive rating has been bad throughout his career and got much worse last season. (113 is a sieve, especially for a PF.) His defensive win shares dropped last season pretty seriously as well. Most importantly, RAPTOR and PIPM hate Gordon's D, and the Magic were a much worse defense with him on the floor last season than with him off (109.7 - 105.9).

Part of that may be a change in philosophy or personell-- I'll admit I'm not a big Magic watcher and making Gordon play with Vucevic more often instead of one of the 10 0r 15 long-limbed 8-footers the Magic collect like baseball cards might flavor those numbers a bit unfairly. Part of it may well be noise. Perhaps defensive metrics are too much in their infancy to argue with as well.

[Kingspoint]

Pretty big fan of Net Rating on vs off the floor.

[Kingspoint]

Pretty big fan of Net Rating on vs off the floor.

Anyone who looked at the Warriors last season (small sample size for the first one I mention, yes, but the disparity was huge, not to mention the eye test Defensively) can understand why guys like Boogie and Whiteside only got miniscule offers from teams not sure what style they want to play.

[Rojo Rijo]

His numbers are hit and miss, but mostly miss. DBRM looked good last year (10th), but were pedestrian at best the years before that. (Typically around 30th among PF.) Defensive rating has been bad throughout his career and got much worse last season. (113 is a sieve, especially for a PF.) His defensive win shares dropped last season pretty seriously as well. Most importantly, RAPTOR and PIPM hate Gordon's D, and the Magic were a much worse defense with him on the floor last season than with him off (109.7 - 105.9).

Part of that may be a change in philosophy or personell-- I'll admit I'm not a big Magic watcher and making Gordon play with Vucevic more often instead of one of the 10 0r 15 long-limbed 8-footers the Magic collect like baseball cards might flavor those numbers a bit unfairly. Part of it may well be noise. Perhaps defensive metrics are too much in their infancy to argue with as well.

Yeah the metrics don’t paint a pretty picture but I attribute a lot of it, especially last year, to playing with defensive liabilities like Vucevic and Fournier as well as not having Isaac who is an elite defensive presence. I don’t think Gordon is some all world defender but his skill set and athletic ability makes him a valuable defender.


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[Bourgeois Zee]

Yeah the metrics don’t paint a pretty picture but I attribute a lot of it, especially last year, to playing with defensive liabilities like Vucevic and Fournier as well as not having Isaac who is an elite defensive presence. I don’t think Gordon is some all world defender but his skill set and athletic ability makes him a valuable defender.

You would totally know more about that than I do. It makes sense that the loss of Isaac would hurt everyone's numbers.

[M2]

Yeah the metrics don’t paint a pretty picture but I attribute a lot of it, especially last year, to playing with defensive liabilities like Vucevic and Fournier as well as not having Isaac who is an elite defensive presence. I don’t think Gordon is some all world defender but his skill set and athletic ability makes him a valuable defender.

Didn't Fournier used to be a good defender?

[Rojo Rijo]

Didn't Fournier used to be a good defender?

He went from below average to decent under Cliff but still he’s on the court/starting because of what he can do on offense

[Bourgeois Zee]

He went from below average to decent under Cliff but still he’s on the court/starting because of what he can do on offense

From afar, I like Fournier. He seems like a solid tertiary option on a good team-- a shooter from deep who can help as a two-position defender. As a third scorer on a better team, he likely wouldn't be asked to shoot as many of those 10 - 21 foot long twos (21+% of his shots came from those distances last season). Love his corner game too (54% on corner threes). I like that he plays with a bit of a chip on his shoulder as well.

Do the fans in Orlando like him, or do they struggle with that European flair, RR?

[M2]

From afar, I like Fournier. He seems like a solid tertiary option on a good team-- a shooter from deep who can help as a two-position defender. As a third scorer on a better team, he likely wouldn't be asked to shoot as many of those 10 - 21 foot long twos (21+% of his shots came from those distances last season). Love his corner game too (54% on corner threes). I like that he plays with a bit of a chip on his shoulder as well.

Do the fans in Orlando like him, or do they struggle with that European flair, RR?

If the economy didn't crash, I suspect he'd have opted out and gotten paid.

[adkindo]

From afar, I like Fournier. He seems like a solid tertiary option on a good team-- a shooter from deep who can help as a two-position defender. As a third scorer on a better team, he likely wouldn't be asked to shoot as many of those 10 - 21 foot long twos (21+% of his shots came from those distances last season). Love his corner game too (54% on corner threes). I like that he plays with a bit of a chip on his shoulder as well.

Do the fans in Orlando like him, or do they struggle with that European flair, RR?

not an Orlando fan, but have many in my daily circle....I think they see him for what he is....a nice contributor on a contending roster, but proved to not really be a foundational piece to build around. When he signed his new contract, he was the highest paid player on the Magic's roster....and I think at this point it is clear that Fournier should never be the highest paid player on a NBA roster.

[M2]

not an Orlando fan, but have many in my daily circle....I think they see him for what he is....a nice contributor on a contending roster, but proved to not really be a foundational piece to build around. When he signed his new contract, he was the highest paid player on the Magic's roster....and I think at this point it is clear that Fournier should never be the highest paid player on a NBA roster.

To be fair, he might have been the lowest paid player to be the highest paid player on his team.

[Kingspoint]

I've never liked anything about Fournier's game and feel that he's the biggest reason for the team's failures the last four years.

[M2]

I've never liked anything about Fournier's game and feel that he's the biggest reason for the team's failures the last four years.

That's absurd. By any measure Fournier's a solid player. Tall wings who can shoot reliably from outside the arc are in high demand. Their problem is they've got too many actively bad players. He's not a star who can lead a team to glory (also not paid like one), but it's not his fault he's the best shooter on a bad shooting team.

[Kingspoint]

That's absurd. By any measure Fournier's a solid player. Tall wings who can shoot reliably from outside the arc are in high demand. Their problem is they've got too many actively bad players. He's not a star who can lead a team to glory (also not paid like one), but it's not his fault he's the best shooter on a bad shooting team.

Not absurd at all. I've disagreed with a lot of your assessments of players. All the Magic do is play poorly when he's on the court. It can't be more simple than that. He doesn't pass the eyetest and he doesn't pass the-team-is-better-on-the-floor-with-him-than-without-him test.

[Bourgeois Zee]

That's absurd. By any measure Fournier's a solid player. Tall wings who can shoot reliably from outside the arc are in high demand. Their problem is they've got too many actively bad players. He's not a star who can lead a team to glory (also not paid like one), but it's not his fault he's the best shooter on a bad shooting team.

With a better point guard and a better wing partner, Fournier becomes a 20 ppg scorer, IMO. (Though a better PG and better wing partner might mitigate the need for Fournier to score 20 as well.) Orlando's draft and development history is so poor, though. Over the past decade, here's the list of their top draft picks over the last decade:

DeAndre Liggins (2nd round flyer who showed some defensive promise but a broken jumper)
Andrew Nicholson (Backup big-- pay attention, there will be a theme here.)
Victor Oladipo (PG they needed, but dealt shortly thereafter)
Aaron Gordon (Undersized PF with plenty of other options at four)
Dario Saric (Dealt to Philly)
Mario Hezonja (Never really developed, did he? How good would Devin Booker have looked in his stead?)
Domantas Sabonis (Great pick, but dealt to OKC-- case of steps forward and back)
Jonathan Isaac (Another PF/ C type? That's six bigs out of eight years in a league wherein a big isn't nearly as important as he has been historically.)
Mo Bamba (7 of 10. Sigh. And at #6 with Sexton, Bridges, SGA available. Big-time miss.)
Chuma Okeke (Knew he was going to miss the season anyway, but chose a guy whose biggest question is his jumper.)

Hindsight is certainly at play in my analysis, but the preponderance of bigs in a small man's league (and the relative lack of spending on quality backcourt mates for Fournier) is a blinking red neon sign. No es muy bueno.

[Kingspoint]

M2, I've been waiting for years of your assessment of Fournier to come true. All he does he make the other players around him worse....year after year after year after year.

[M2]

Not absurd at all. I've disagreed with a lot of your assessments of players. All the Magic do is play poorly when he's on the court. It can't be more simple than that. He doesn't pass the eyetest and he doesn't pass the-team-is-better-on-the-floor-with-him-than-without-him test.

You need a new a stronger glasses prescription. They count up a stat to measure that and he's got a positive on-off during his time with the Magic. Last year he got saddled with playing alongside Markelle Fultz. Like Zee said, put some functional players around him and Fournier's space creation can pay some dividends. I also suspect he works better in an offense with some pace.

[Kingspoint]

You need a new a stronger glasses prescription. They count up a stat to measure that and he's got a positive on-off during his time with the Magic. Last year he got saddled with playing alongside Markelle Fultz. Like Zee said, put some functional players around and Fournier's space creation can pay some dividends. I also suspect he works better in an offense with some pace.

You defended Russell Westbrook time after time, and now the world knows that I was always right about him. He sucks as an NBA player. He makes others around him worse and his teams always implode around him because of him. You kept trying to use stats to defend Westbrook like you are doing with Fournier, but the fact remains, both of these players make poor decisions more often than they make good ones (thought I did give Westbrook credit for changing last season and doing well at it, actually). I wouldn't want Fournier on my team any more than I would Westbrook (as so many others agree on that finally). Fournier is not a good teammate in a professional NBA environment. He doesn't understand the basic fundamentals of what winning basketball is.

[M2]

You defended Russell Westbrook time after time, and now the world knows that I was always right about him. He sucks as an NBA player. He makes others around him worse and his teams always implode around him because of him. You kept trying to use stats to defend Westbrook like you are doing with Fournier, but the fact remains, both of these players make poor decisions more often than they make good ones (thought I did give Westbrook credit for changing last season and doing well at it, actually). I wouldn't want Fournier on my team any more than I would Westbrook (as so many others agree on that finally). Fournier is not a good teammate in a professional NBA environment. He doesn't understand the basic fundamentals of what winning basketball is.

You're hopeless with this stuff. You randomly pick guys based on emotional criteria (e.g. any PG who dares be compared to Dame - and Russ was better than Dame for a long time, though Dame is better now). For whatever reason you've got a hair across your butt about Fournier. If he went to Blazers you'd change your tune about him instantly. If you can rationalize Melo, Hassan Whiteside and Rodney Hood, Evan Fournier would be an easy lift for you.

[texasdave]

Hassan Whitehead will be a tremendous pickup for whoever picks him up. No idea why he hasn't been signed yet.

[M2]

Hassan Whitehead will be a tremendous pickup for whoever picks him up. No idea why he hasn't been signed yet.

He's with the Kings.

[texasdave]

He's with the Kings.

Sacramento makes the playoffs then.

[M2]

Sacramento makes the playoffs then.

I'm not a Whiteside fan, and I really question whether he and Jabari Parker were wise additions to a team that's going to need to put out consistent effort. Yet I think they're certainly in contention with the playoffs expanded out to 10 teams. Only OKC (which is tanking) and San Antonio (I don't know what they're doing) seem hopeless, and there's a voice in the back of my head warning me never to count out the Spurs.

[texasdave]

Errr...Whiteside not Whitehead. I have never gotten that right.

[texasdave]

Dreaded double post.

[texasdave]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30477567/sources-houston-rockets-james-harden-open-being-traded-philadelphia-76ers-other-contenders

[Bourgeois Zee]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30477567/sources-houston-rockets-james-harden-open-being-traded-philadelphia-76ers-other-contenders

I can't get Harden to Philly to work without Simmons, and I don't think Philadelphia would be willing to do that anyway. (Nor, IMO, would Houston, oddly.)

I can get to the following, though:

Harden to Golden State for Klay Thompson and James Wiseman

Harden to Denver for Jamal Murray and Will Barton

Harden to NOLA for Zion Williamson, Eric Bledsoe, and JJ Redick is a personal fave.

Harden to Indiana for Oladipo and TJ Warren plus three 1st round picks.

Harden to Boston for Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, and Aaron Nesmith.

Harden to Miami for Tyler Herro, Bam Adebayo, Kelly Olynyk, and Andre Iguodala.

None of them are particularly realistic (though I do like the Denver one for both squads-- and the NOLA deal makes an odd type of sense too).

[M2]

Harden to Golden State for Klay Thompson and James Wiseman

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6UBgTW5niwy25kkw/giphy.gif

[Kingspoint]

I just love this. Think it's four years overdue. Curry has always had to be twice as good as anybody else on the team to get minutes because of his size and draft position (undrafted). But, he's always been an excellent one-on-one defender and a decent defender at switching despite his size, posessing one of the highest basketball IQ's in the NBA, is nothing but clutch during the last five minutes of close games, stretches the floor as well as any player in the league, and distributes the ball better than anyone on the Trailblazers current roster, though that's not saying much (no offense, Dame). Stotts rightfully so, always closed games with him on the floor in a 3-guard lineup, something Stotts loves to use, but only if the 3rd Guard has enough qualities to pull it off (can pass, hit a clutch three and play better Defense than Dame and C. J., and is preferably taller than both, though Curry wasn't, but he was so darn good in everything else). Curry's weakness? He's an extremely poor rebounder who doesn't understand that there's always five rebounds per game waiting for him at the free throw-line that bounce long if he just hangs out there after a shot instead of standing around looking and waiting for someone taller to grab the ball or getting back on Defense with a streaking opponent...there's still a compromise that can be made with the streaking opponent and grabbing that rebound that goes to the free-throw line as there's plenty of time to anticipate getting it or going back, but he never goes for it, so he gets 1 rebound per game...that's four posessions he needlessly gives up).

He was forced to start a large number of games for Dallas because of injuries last year, and, of course, played like he'd been doing for five years in the league. If he truly gets a fair shake by Doc, the Sixers become extremely dangerous with two playmakers as good as Simmons and Curry on the floor at the same time. He also offers Embiid a nice kickout should Embiid choose that option.

Doc Rivers hinted that Seth Curry will be a starter for the 76ers this season. When asked if the starting lineup on opening night would be Ben Simmons, Seth Curry, Danny Green, Tobias Harris and Joel Embiid, Rivers responded: "You can make that assumption, but it doesn't mean it won't change. But it sounds like a good lineup. I may use that." Curry said a couple of days ago that he's been getting a lot of run alongside Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons, so this all but confirms that he'll be an opening night starter in Philly, which makes sense given the 76ers need for 3-point shooting. Curry can be considered a viable late-round target in deep leagues.

SOURCE: Keith Pompey on Twitter

[texasdave]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30484952/houston-rockets-await-covid-ruling-james-harden-holdout He needs 6 straight negative tests or some such. I am severely disappointed in his actions.

[M2]

Rando thought on Harden, Chicago might be a good fit for him. Major market desperate for a return to prominence. I don't think Houston's going to get a knock-'em-dead offer, so Zach LaVine and Lauri Markkanen might be as good a haul as they could get from anyone. The Bulls aren't going to win immediately, but they'd present a situation like what LeBron walked into with the Lakers - intriguing young players to keep or to trade, salary space opening in the coming years to add another stud or two. It's a spot where a team can form around him.

[Rojo Rijo]

Rando thought on Harden, Chicago might be a good fit for him. Major market desperate for a return to prominence. I don't think Houston's going to get a knock-'em-dead offer, so Zach LaVine and Lauri Markkanen might be as good a haul as they could get from anyone. The Bulls aren't going to win immediately, but they'd present a situation like what LeBron walked into with the Lakers - intriguing young players to keep or to trade, salary space opening in the coming years to add another stud or two. It's a spot where a team can form around him.

If I’m Houston in a deal with Chicago I’m asking for Coby White to be a part of the package.

[M2]

If I’m Houston in a deal with Chicago I’m asking for Coby White to be a part of the package.

I'd be asking for all their kids. Yet I suspect Houston's going to get a lot of pushback unless Philly jumps in with Ben Simmons. LaVine (25.5 PPG) and Markkanen (a big with some shooting range) seems like a better upper end than what the Nets can put on the table.

[texasdave]

I think the shine is off the Chevy down here in Houston with regards to James Harden. The neighborhood kids were playing some street ball yesterday, when I heard one of the kids call him Fartin' James Harden. Kids know these things.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I think the shine is off the Chevy down here in Houston with regards to James Harden. The neighborhood kids were playing some street ball yesterday, when I heard one of the kids call him Fartin' James Harden. Kids know these things.

I do wonder if Harden isn't employing the Dick Allen process of making things so uncomfortable that the team feels like it has to trade him.

Things could get ugly for Harden in Houston-- especially if the rest of the team looks pretty good early.

They may be able to survive as a playoff team without him-- at least early. The team is filled with veterans, most of whom have a ton of experience in big games and big moments. And the lineup is sneaky capable around a good facilitator. Gordon at the two with Wall works pretty well, assuming Gordon is back to hitting 37% of his jumpers. Wall's a wildcard, but all reports so far are positive. He's apparently in great shape and flying up and down the court. Cousins is in shape, according to tweets from H-Town. Wood as a PF works well (with Tucker available as well) with both athleticism and stretching the floor. Putting House or Sterling Brown out there as a 3-and-D sniper and as the primary beneficiary of those wide-open looks Porter and Beal had in DC wouldn't be the worst idea. That team has depth enough-- McLemore is a good shooter, if a terrible defender, Brown or House at the wing, Tucker as a big-- to withstand small injuries or foul trouble.

Their schedule should really help them ramp up. It sets them up remarkably well for the first month of the season-- two games with the Lakers, one with the Blazers, one with the Pacers, and a couple with the Mavs are the only playoff squads they face between the beginning of the season and 1/28. (I discount OKC because they're unlikely to be competitive this season.) A .500 or better record and a spot in the West hierarchy should be attainable, at the least.

It all depends on health, but isn't that true of nearly every team in the league at this point?

[Kingspoint]

Portland's schedule to begin the season:

UTA
HOU
@LAL
@LAC
@GSW
@GSW

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm trying to make a Heat/ Houston trade palatable from both sides without including Adebayo, but it's tough sledding.

What about Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, Precious Achiuwa, Chris Silva, Andre Iguodala, Kelly Olynyk, and two first round picks for Harden?

That's just not enough, is it?

Does it have to be Bam and Herro (plus more)?

[M2]

I'm trying to make a Heat/ Houston trade palatable from both sides without including Adebayo, but it's tough sledding.

What about Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, Precious Achiuwa, Chris Silva, Andre Iguodala, Kelly Olynyk, and two first round picks for Harden?

That's just not enough, is it?

Does it have to be Bam and Herro (plus more)?

Herro, Robinson and Achiuwa would be a nice haul. That's one potential star (Herro) plus a dead-eye shooter and a young bruiser. My question is whether the Heat want to do that. Harden doesn't seem like a personality fit for that organization.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Herro, Robinson and Achiuwa would be a nice haul. That's one potential star (Herro) plus a dead-eye shooter and a young bruiser. My question is whether the Heat want to do that. Harden doesn't seem like a personality fit for that organization.

It'd be a heckuva gamble, but a Big Three of Harden, Butler, and Bam is the best in the East and arguably the best in the NBA. ESPN has all three within their top 15 guys in the league (13, 12, and 9). That's enough to be the favorites in the East and a matchup nightmare for any team who might have to play them.

[Kingspoint]

So, I suppose Harden is telling Seth, "Keep my seat warm".

[Betterread]

Kyrie just responded to his NBA fine for not talking to the media: “I do not talk to pawns”. He just made it a lot worse for his image. Why doesn’t he just get some media training? He can afford it. Or is he arrogant?
When arrogant people display their lack of respect so clearly, it signals their own sense of powerlessness in something.
I think he is feeling the pressure of expectations for this year’s Nets team.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Kyrie just responded to his NBA fine for not talking to the media: “I do not talk to pawns”. He just made it a lot worse for his image. Why doesn’t he just get some media training? He can afford it. Or is he arrogant?
When arrogant people display their lack of respect so clearly, it signals their own sense of powerlessness in something.
I think he is feeling the pressure of expectations for this year’s Nets team.

I think he's just kinda stupid and likes to hear himself pontificate.

The flat earth stuff, then doubling down on it. (Twice.) Saying he would have to adjust his game (and didn't really want to) when LeBron came back to Cleveland. The co-coaches comment about he, Nash, and Durant (and the one where he said he helped Stevens coach in Boston). The internet-isn't-real conversation when he got caught talking about free agency with Durant. Comparing himself to Nikola Tesla and other misunderstood geniuses. The New Age-y conspiracy theory stuff. Insisting steak isn't natural. Hating on multiple holidays (Christmas and Thanksgiving).

It's a lot.

This is the next thing.

[SteelSD]

Herro, Robinson and Achiuwa would be a nice haul. That's one potential star (Herro) plus a dead-eye shooter and a young bruiser. My question is whether the Heat want to do that. Harden doesn't seem like a personality fit for that organization.

Jimmy Butler would watch one exhibition of Harden dribbling out 23 seconds of shot clock only to take a step back off-balance 40-foot three pointer. Just one.

Harden would never see the basketball again while Butler was on the court.

[M2]

Kyrie just responded to his NBA fine for not talking to the media: “I do not talk to pawns”. He just made it a lot worse for his image. Why doesn’t he just get some media training? He can afford it. Or is he arrogant?
When arrogant people display their lack of respect so clearly, it signals their own sense of powerlessness in something.
I think he is feeling the pressure of expectations for this year’s Nets team.

His orbit keeps getting more erratic. It would not surprise me if he walks out of a game at some point and never plays again.

[Kingspoint]

Robert Covington will be as impactual to the '20-'23 (hopefully, '25) Portland Trailblazers teams as Buck Williams was to the '89-'92 Trailblazers teams. Derrick Jones will fill the Kersey role. Melo will play the Uncle Cliffy role this season.

Gary Trent, Jr. isn't going to sign an extension which would have given him $42M over 4 years, but will go all-in on himself as an RFA next season.

Logo Lillard has said he's going to be Half-Court Lillard as he'll launch them regularly when the feeling is right.

Go Blazers!!!

All the way to the NBA Finals!

[Kingspoint]

Harry Giles looks great!

[Kingspoint]

Kings got shooters. Very aggressive Defensively. Every game they play will be fun to watch.

[Kingspoint]

Kings have the talent to match Fox's pace. The 19th in Pace finish they had last season didn't take advantage of Fox's strength. They play all season at the Pace they attempted tonight (Blazers are always a bottom-five), teams will lose to them. When they picked up the Pace last season, they beat everybody.

[M2]

Harry Giles looks great!

He's having a nice night, though if memory serves he looked good in preseason last year and then turned into a pumpkin. Yet he's playing with some fire, possibly because the Kings cut him.

[Kingspoint]

My, Oh, My! What a statement game for Harry Giles III against his former Kings! 18/13 with a level of 10 on the intensity scale.

- - - Updated - - -


He's having a nice night, though if memory serves he looked good in preseason last year and then turned into a pumpkin. Yet he's playing with some fire, possibly because the Kings cut him.

No doubt.

[Kingspoint]

So, most don't know this, but Melo is in the Top-2 of all time in the lifetime clutch stat of hitting a basket to tie or put your team ahead the last two minutes of a game. I never looked it up, but it's what a media source said. He'll be on the floor to close games.

[M2]

KP, you buried the lede. Did you see Nurk's hair? It's both terrible and fantastic.

[Betterread]

The NBA is back. I watched a little bit of a few games and this is what I saw:
1. John Wall looked quick and fast. I was wrong about him being washed up. He looks like the all star of a few years ago.
2. Gary Trent looked very good. Good jumper and excellent defense on Fox. He looked way better than CJ, who displayed a bad handle, shot an air ball and got stuffed (not just blocked). If Trent got more of CJs minutes, Portland might gain a few more wins.
3. For Chicago, the backcourt of Levine and Coby White are terrible at everything except for high volume scoring. I like to watch their one on one aggressiveness, but that is as a neutral fan. If I watch as a Chicago fan, I would be going nuts at their casual ball security, defense and offensive execution.I think Satoransky is the best guard on that team and he should get more minutes. They should try to see what they can get for one of the chuckers. A lot of people like Coby White.

[Kingspoint]

KP, you buried the lede. Did you see Nurk's hair? It's both terrible and fantastic.

Certainly. As soon as I turned it on, I texted my Spouse, she share's his (and Kobe's,and Seth Curry's) birthday, "Nurk's got red hair!". After spending eight years taking care of my Mom at my Sister's only coming home on weekends, we got use to the spacing with both her parents at the house and her daughter growing up to be bigger than all of them, so when my Mom passed July 1st (Opening Night would have been her 88th birthday, Dec. 23rd), I found a great place only a 15-minute drive from the house, but across the Columbia river. It's like a resort. A 12-minute walk to a sparsely used sandy beach and park by the public for swimming in the Summer, two pools including a 24-hour indoor salt-water pool, two saunas, a gym-like workout center, duck ponds with ducks and Black Swans including a flock of babies when I first moved in, recreation room with ping-pong (we have always carried our own paddles in the car) and pool table, a restaurant and bar on the basement floor, Eastern view of Mt. Hood with morning Sun, Southern view of the Columbia River, Oregon and planes from the airport, 1175 SQ ft and the only one with it's own washer and dryer, and the best part, it's a secured building with no trash in the surrounding community, no homeless anywhere beyond walking distance, no rift-raft anywhere beyond walking distance, no criminals anywhere beyond walking distance, no kids allowed to live here. There are no businesses, residences or stores to encourage criminals and it's not a pathway to get to any destination drawing them to pass by. Strict parking permits and patrols deter car thieves, and residents watch out for each other. No more than one guest, and they must be with the non-guest at all times, can use any of the facilities. It costs no more than a crappy apartment anywhere else in the Northwest. Very, very lucky to have found this, so my Spouse can come over and relax like it's a resort. It's been ten weeks and I'm still moving in as I've just finished my 6th week at my new job as Admissions Rep at a college in Vancouver. 2020 sucks big time, but you've got to look at the good with the bad. We had Sun last weekend and I finally got in a good bicycle ride on a 1972 light-blue Schwinn I found on a farm in Newburg six years ago. I got the rust off myself years ago, but didn't get brakes on it until I moved over here in October, being too busy for years taking care of a home in one place and my Mom in another. But, I rode about 10 miles each way Saturday discovering a path through Fort Vancouver and along the Clumbia River coming into the University Park area where our home is the back way. Took too long to get back after doing nothing but chores when I got there (and saw all four cats and everyone, of course), so I rode back in the dark, though a fairly safe path that mostly avoided cars. I was overloaded in my backpack with heavy groceries. All the fat I lost, I made up for the last two days with pizza from work, 3 pounds of gorgonzola pasta, and potato chips and chicken-n-a-biskets, and lots of eggnog.

Hope your Holidays are good, and Happy Hanukah!

[KoryMac5]

Houston will be a fun team if they can get Harden to buy in...I think Silas is just the type of coach that team needs.

Boogie playing 15-20 mins per night seems just about right.

[Kingspoint]

Houston will be a fun team if they can get Harden to buy in...I think Silas is just the type of coach that team needs.

Boogie playing 15-20 mins per night seems just about right.

Portland gets 'em right off the bat.

[Stray]

Kings got shooters. Very aggressive Defensively. Every game they play will be fun to watch.

Been watching the Kings for the last few years. Keep thinking they're ready and then find out they're not. Either way you're right, their games are so fun to watch.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Been watching the Kings for the last few years. Keep thinking they're ready and then find out they're not. Either way you're right, their games are so fun to watch.

The decision to draft Bagley ahead of Doncic may go down as the single biggest blunder in Kaingz history. Every time I see Doncic go 30/12/10, I'm reminded of Vlade's attempt to be more smarterer-- and fail epically. Doncic would have made Sacramento a playoff team last season. (Think they wouldn't have been an attractive place for shooters to sign on?) Jaren Jackson is the platonic ideal of what Bagley could become if he develops. Michael Porter, even with a year rehabbing, would have been a far better fit.

And it's not like Bagley didn't come into the draft with questions. Duke bigs are notorious for having massive holes in their games that limit their effectiveness in the NBA. Okafor, Jabari Parker, Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner-- when your best NBA center over two decades is a Plumlee, you know you have issues developing players of size. Bagley needs to park himself behind the three-point line and take 1500 shots a day. If he can make 38 - 40% of his shots, he should turn out to be a serviceable big. With the second pick in a draft, the Kings could have done so much more. Alas, they Kainged it up.

And what's worse is that they've done pretty well in the draft otherwise. Fox is a good PG and was a great choice at number five that year. (They got lucky that LA chose Ball, honestly, but still. They could have chosen Dennis Smith or Frankie Smokes.) Hield as the centerpiece of the Boogie deal worked out okay too (though dealing Zach Collins, even injured Zach Collins, for Harry Giles and Justin Jackson wasn't a great decision). Grabbing Bogdanovich for Marquis Chriss was a prescient move (though drafting Papagiannis was reprehensible). Haliburton was a steal. In all, they've done fairly well-- except when it counted most. They whiffed on the easy pick, IMO. And it's cost them half a decade at least.

[Kingspoint]

For me watching the Kings, it's like watching an artist trying to work a bust. Haven't been able to identify an image for years, but right now, an image is appearing and I tend to give credit to Joe Dumars.

[M2]

Random thoughts watching the Grizz and the Wolves:

- Ja Morant has shown up ready to take over games.

- Jonas Valanciunas ought to be desired by any team searching for a quality big.

- Anthony Edwards looks awful. I'm sure he'll get better, but I can't spot anything that would make him the #1 overall pick.

- The Wolves need Rondae Hollis-Jefferson's level of giving a damn.

[Kingspoint]

Tonight we'll start seeing the first of a new feature of the NBA,...a team staying in town to play the same team twice. Seems like it would hurt the good teams and help the bad teams as it's just always difficult to beat the same team twice in a row. Doing it on the same court will be interesting to watch, even if there are no fans.

As far as watching televised games, I enjoyed it the same as the pumped in crowd noise was the Blazers' crowd noise for the first game. I know that sound well. It was used in all the right ways in all the right moments. That's from a livingroom viewpoint. The reporters said it was strange hearing silence during free throws while everything the players are saying on the court are heard from the sideline reporters. So clearly, they aren't pumping the sound of the crown through the game live, which is a huge mistake, as the sounds of the Blazers' crowd is a huge asset.

[Betterread]

Random thoughts watching the Grizz and the Wolves:

- Ja Morant has shown up ready to take over games.

- Jonas Valanciunas ought to be desired by any team searching for a quality big.

- Anthony Edwards looks awful. I'm sure he'll get better, but I can't spot anything that would make him the #1 overall pick.

- The Wolves need Rondae Hollis-Jefferson's level of giving a damn.

Good points. Jah was the best player on the floor. He will be a star soon. Only I can’t stand him. He reminds me of Kobe (not his game, something more personality based).
Edwards was disappointing, but I think he was doing more thinking/processing than playing. He does look very young, with a lot
to learn.

The most concerning thing is what I didn’t see. No P’nRs with Dlo and KAT. None. Dlo seems most interested in hunting for his own shots.

[M2]

The most concerning thing is what I didn’t see. No P’nRs with Dlo and KAT. None. Dlo seems most interested in hunting for his own shots.

Wasn't Russell one of the best PnR guys in the league two seasons ago?

[adkindo]

I think Talen Horton-Tucker will be a factor this year for the Lakers. He could be an issue on defense with that wing span playing the PG.

[M2]

I think Talen Horton-Tucker will be a factor this year for the Lakers. He could be an issue on defense with that wing span playing the PG.

I thought he cost himself a lot of money by not going back to college for his sophomore year. If he had fleshed out his offensive game a bit and shown some more shooting range, he'd have gone high in this draft (like Tyrese Haliburton). I think you're right he's likely to carve out some minutes for himself. He's got the makings of a quality player.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I thought he cost himself a lot of money by not going back to college for his sophomore year. If he had fleshed out his offensive game a bit and shown some more shooting range, he'd have gone high in this draft (like Tyrese Haliburton). I think you're right he's likely to carve out some minutes for himself. He's got the makings of a quality player.

He can play defense while his shot remains a work in process. He'll rebound and defend, and (most importantly) he won't beat himself.

That's often enough as the fourth or fifth guard in a rotation.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Tyrese Haliburton had an 11/7/6 line in 30 mpg last night with zero turnovers. He might not get that clock early in the season-- but if he plays like this, he will. I want to see what he can do against Kelly Oubre, who's bigger and stronger than he is. (And whether he can score against him.) Fwiw, he killed Gary Trent, Jr., last night after being average at best in his first taste of professional basketball. He reminds me of SGA quite a bit, actually.

[adkindo]

He can play defense while his shot remains a work in process. He'll rebound and defend, and (most importantly) he won't beat himself.

That's often enough as the fourth or fifth guard in a rotation.

Small sample, but he is shooting well in the couple games this year....5 of 9 from 3 & 13 of 15 from the line. He only shot 31% from 3 in GLeague and College. He looks comfortable and confident this year. I think the Lakers should start him and keep Schroder coming off the bench...but I would guess they may start Schroder to keep him happy.

[adkindo]

not sure if it was mentioned, but LaMelo's passing in his first game was right up there with some White Chocolate passing....if that kid can keep focused, he is going to be a fun watch with the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg319D4-5Co

them guys better have their hands up and head on a swivel when Melo has the ball

[texasdave]

I had no idea that you can bet on preseason exhibition games. Live and learn.

[KoryMac5]

Giannis to sign SuperMax with the Bucks...228 million.

[M2]

Giannis to sign SuperMax with the Bucks...228 million.

Doesn't mean he stays wit the Bucks all the way through 2026, but it should extend their Giannis window for at least another couple of years.

[Stray]

I dropped 20 bucks (was fiending) on a preseason DFS contest Monday night. So I watched a game of preseason hoops, and the Heat were well undermanned but the Pelicans really did look like a playoff team. Not even a fringe one, but a legit top 4 seed playoff team. SVG is gonna win COY with this group. Lotta things working here.

For the Heat, Bam and Herro looked good, but the rest of their stars were out. Would not be surprised if Herro ends up being their best scorer this year. And Bam might lead the team in assists.

Pels... gonna be a fun team to watch.

[M2]

Watching Golden State and Sacramento right now. Nico Mannion looks surprisingly good in the mop up portion of this game.

[Kingspoint]

Watching Golden State and Sacramento right now. Nico Mannion looks surprisingly good in the mop up portion of this game.

Sac dominated for the most part.

[M2]

Sac dominated for the most part.

It was a one-point game.

[Kingspoint]

It was a one-point game.

Garbage game at the end. The dominance was already done when it mattered.

[Kingspoint]

I doubt if the Warriors make the playoffs. They are not a Top-8 team in the West. Sacramento will be better than them.

[M2]

I doubt if the Warriors make the playoffs. They are not a Top-8 team in the West. Sacramento will be better than them.

Is Sacramento your Orlando this year?

[texasdave]

A nice example of a garbage article from ESPN: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30528130/james-harden-houston-rockets-breaking-point

In Harden's eight seasons with the Rockets they averaged 53 wins a season. They made the playoffs every year, including two Conference Finals. They were 'a hamstring away' from, quite likely, an NBA title. And, nearly all came on the back of James Harden. Also, what about this 'supposed' fallout that they have to deal with? This is a damn good team with either James Harden or whichever young superstar that they deal him for. in the lineup. They got a first for Westbrook, and JH will probably back a couple more. Houston is in good shape for the future. But, ragging on James Harden is quite popular at the moment, for reasons that I have never understood. There are many, many teams that would gladly trade for the Rockets last eight seasons, and their immediate future. Pure trash.

[texasdave]

Everywhere he goes, Hassan Whiteside puts up excellent numbers. In 15 minutes last night, 11 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 blocks. I would take that anytime.

[Kingspoint]

Prediction for Final Standings of 2020-21NBA Regular Season:

Western Conference:

Those avoiding any play-in games:

LAL
POR
DEN
UTA
LAC
DAL
----------The four Play-in teams-------
PHO
NOP
MEM
SAS
---------and the rest are here on Gilligan's Isle--------
SAC
HOU
GSW
OKC
MIN


Eastern Conference:

Those avoiding any play-in games:

MIL
BOS
PHI
BKN
MIA
TOR
------------The four Play-in teams---------
ATL
IND
-------nevermind,....it's just ugly after this.

[Bourgeois Zee]

West
LA Lakers
Won the championship last year and got (much) better in the off-season.

Denver Nuggets
Murray will take a step forward. Can Porter defend? Can they find a wing shooter?

LA Clippers
Still have George and Leonard. Ibaka will help, but still flawed.

Portland Blazers
Finally, wings. Tough out.

Utah Jazz
Is Conley toast? We're about to find out.

Dallas Mavericks
Losing Porzingis isn't ideal, but I like their additions.

Houston
Harden, Wall, and Boogie-- if they stay healthy and focused-- will win at least one playoff series they shouldn't have. They actually match up really well against the Lakers.

Golden State
Curry is back and he's going full-on Mad Bomber. He has a decent crew around him too.

Phoenix
Is Chris Paul ageless? They'll have to learn to defense people.

New Orleans Pelicans
More talent than anyone else, but the roster is still really odd.

East
Milwaukee
Regular season hasn't proven tough for two years, and they've gotten better in the off-season. Do they have enough shooting outside of Middleton?

Brooklyn
I think Nash will end up a decent coach if he sticks with it, but Kyrie would scare me silly as a Nets' fan.

Miami
You know Miami's going to do something. I worry about injuries here (not much time off). If Herro takes a leap, they may be number one.

Philadelphia
We'll find out shortly if the coach was the problem. I still think the roster is wonky, but I'm a sucker for shooting.

Boston
Kemba being hurt early will lose them some games. But they're still so deep on the wings.

Indiana
Love the makeup of the the Pacers... if Oladipo can come all the way back. If not, they're still a playoff team.

Toronto
Still has a great Big Three. Can Norman Powell take a step?

Atlanta
The roster is really deep and could surprise, but it usually takes a year for disparate teams to gel.

Orlando
Who else? I mean, maybe Chicago?

Charlotte
Whoever said Ball was the second coming of White Chocolate hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, that includes his jumper. (And that's being generous.)

[Kingspoint]

If I was forced to pick the best of the rest in the East after my Top-8, I would pick CLE.

[M2]

If I was forced to pick the best of the rest in the East after my Top-8, I would pick CLE.

https://media.tenor.com/images/fdc05dd7f127e6102955c1c62f1c9650/tenor.gif

[M2]

The Wizards are finishing in the top 10 in the East.

[RichRed]

The Wizards are finishing in the top 10 in the East.

Damn straight.

#WinForWes

16825

[Revering4Blue]

The Wizards are finishing in the top 10 in the East.Yeah, health permitting, I see no possible path to the Hornets finishing ahead of Washington. Chicago could sneak into the top 10.

Cleveland, Detroit and New York, OTOH, are safe bets to be sitting at the same table in the school cafeteria.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[M2]

Yeah, health permitting, I see no possible path to the Hornets finishing ahead of Washington. Chicago could sneak into the top 10.

Cleveland, Detroit and New York, OTOH, are safe bets to be sitting at the same table in the school cafeteria.

I'd give the Pistons slightly better than a snowball's chance in hell. There's a version of that team where Blake is healthy enough to approximate his 2018-19 self, Jerami Grant is good and Dwane Casey once again proves to be a Delon Wright whisperer. They're not going to be good, but they could be better than the two worst teams in the NBA and possibly in the mix for a play-in slot. They seem like they fit in at Chicago, Orlando, Charlotte mix.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If I was forced to pick the best of the rest in the East after my Top-8, I would pick CLE.

Cleveland’s best hope is that Love and Drummond look like All Stars in the first 20 games and can be traded. That’s the best case scenario.