2021 College Football Thread: New Year Same Playoff

[WVRed]

New year new thread.

Marshall with a surprising hire, Charles Huff from Alabama:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30724338/sources-alabama-assistant-charles-huff-set-hired-marshall-new-football-coach

[adkindo]

New year new thread.

Marshall with a surprising hire, Charles Huff from Alabama:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30724338/sources-alabama-assistant-charles-huff-set-hired-marshall-new-football-coach

Huff could be a great hire for Marshall....I would give them an A for the hire. I heard RichRod was interested and had some support with boosters, but Marshall just refused to go with another "WVU guy". I think RichRod could have been dangerous at Marshall in that conference. First, I think he would have woke up every morning with the goal of building a team that caused people in WV to say Marshall may be better than WVU....and second, I think he will go balls to the wall knowing it would likely be his last chance to rebuild his reputation. I get why they went with Huff, and do not blame them.....but I do think RichRod would have been very interesting there.

[WVRed]

Huff could be a great hire for Marshall....I would give them an A for the hire. I heard RichRod was interested and had some support with boosters, but Marshall just refused to go with another "WVU guy". I think RichRod could have been dangerous at Marshall in that conference. First, I think he would have woke up every morning with the goal of building a team that caused people in WV to say Marshall may be better than WVU....and second, I think he will go balls to the wall knowing it would likely be his last chance to rebuild his reputation. I get why they went with Huff, and do not blame them.....but I do think RichRod would have been very interesting there.

Could be the same reason they didn’t go with Gerad Parker, WVUs offensive coordinator. He’s from Louisa, Kentucky which is about 45 minutes from Huntington.

Doc Holliday had some good teams at Marshall when their season didn’t consist of WVU being their Super Bowl. Once the Friends of Joe Bowl ended Marshall started fielding competitive teams.

[Assembly Hall]

Go Hoosiers!

[adkindo]

Sorry if already mentioned, but I just heard about the Yahoo story from a few days ago suggesting that San Diego State and Boise State are having discussions with the AAC about joining. Not sure how they make that travel work, but if you add those schools to the AAC it will be hard to suggest the AAC is weaker than the weakest P5 conference.

[KronoRed]

Sounds like what the original Big East tried to do before it collapsed.

[adkindo]

Sounds like what the original Big East tried to do before it collapsed.

yes, if I recall, Boise was joining then WVU announced they were leaving, and Boise State revisited their decision and eventually remained in the Mountain West. I think in many years a conference with Cincinnati, Memphis, UCF, Boise State, San Diego State, etc. would be in the Top 5 conferences in regards to quality.

[Boston Red]

This discussion reminds me of the sad photo of the Tulane coaches and athletics director holding up a Big East banner, and the Catholic 7 immediately saying "No so fast, my friend. We gone."

[Chip R]

Yahoo Sports' Pete Thamel is reporting that Jeremy Pruitt is out at Tennessee and Phil Fulmer's future will be addressed as well.

[Boston Red]

Why would they wait so long? Odd timing.

Oh, I see, it's because of an investigation and not due to poor performance. Allegedly.

[KronoRed]

Fired for cause, Fulmer gets to save face and “retire”

[Reds Freak]

Tennessee a place for Fickell? Not sure he'd want to go into that mess though.

[WVRed]

Tennessee a place for Fickell? Not sure he'd want to go into that mess though.

My money was on Hugh Freeze before today.

Now not so sure. Might be better off promoting Kevin Steele who they just hired from Auburn and riding it out for a year.

[adkindo]

My money was on Hugh Freeze before today.

Now not so sure. Might be better off promoting Kevin Steele who they just hired from Auburn and riding it out for a year.

I do not see that plan being great for recruiting....or even stopping a flood into the portal.

[KronoRed]

Sounds like Pruitt won't go quietly

https://footballscoop.com/news/jeremy-pruitt-responds-to-his-firing/

:devil:

[adkindo]

Sounds like Pruitt won't go quietly

https://footballscoop.com/news/jeremy-pruitt-responds-to-his-firing/

:devil:

I do not blame him....that is not pocket change. I have not followed it closely, but it sure feels like they wanted to get rid of him without paying him....and went looking for a reason to terminate him for cause and get out of paying him.

[WVRed]

I do not see that plan being great for recruiting....or even stopping a flood into the portal.

Depends on if the NCAA decides to do anything. They have to replace the AD first who will be hiring the coach.

Wonder if Neal Brown would be a candidate?

[adkindo]

Depends on if the NCAA decides to do anything. They have to replace the AD first who will be hiring the coach.

Wonder if Neal Brown would be a candidate?

Do not think so....have not seen him on any "lists" released today in the media. He was mentioned on their fan boards....but I think dude has to get WVU back on track before another program will make an effort to "steal" him. Right now, I am not even convinced he will get WVU back to B12 contention....I am hopeful, but it is not a lock. Get WVU to the Big12 Championship game, then I might be concerned.

[adkindo]

I saw Tressel's nephew (Michigan State safeties coach Mike Tressel) is taking over as DC @ Cincy.

[kaldaniels]

I do not blame him....that is not pocket change. I have not followed it closely, but it sure feels like they wanted to get rid of him without paying him....and went looking for a reason to terminate him for cause and get out of paying him.

Settlement forthcoming.....

[Assembly Hall]

Volnation takes yet another ugly hit. Hope they don't coming sniffing around Bloomington.

[WVRed]

Volnation takes yet another ugly hit. Hope they don't coming sniffing around Bloomington.

What was pretty embarrassing today was the press conference when Fulmer was asked how Pruitts tenure would be remembered. He said the recruiting effort by Pruitt had been good.

That’s kinda like when some of the basketball players got gun charges and Bruce Pearl previewing the Kentucky game coming up “we’ve got weapons”

Of course Fulmer said last year the Vols were back and was going to take a bite out of everyone’s ass last year.

[adkindo]

What was pretty embarrassing today was the press conference when Fulmer was asked how Pruitts tenure would be remembered. He said the recruiting effort by Pruitt had been good.

That’s kinda like when some of the basketball players got gun charges and Bruce Pearl previewing the Kentucky game coming up “we’ve got weapons”

Of course Fulmer said last year the Vols were back and was going to take a bite out of everyone’s ass last year.

I saw some of the UT message board, and the claims are Jarrett Guarantano sparked the investigation by going scorched earth on his way to the portal reporting multiple violations of the staff that had nothing to do with him? Anyone know if that is accurate? Also saw Darnell Wright's name listed as one of the athletes that received additional benefits during recruiting.

[RedTeamGo!]

I saw some of the UT message board, and the claims are Jarrett Guarantano sparked the investigation by going scorched earth on his way to the portal reporting multiple violations of the staff that had nothing to do with him? Anyone know if that is accurate? Also saw Darnell Wright's name listed as one of the athletes that received additional benefits during recruiting.

It’s so funny. I remember when Darnell Wright committed to the Vols. I immediately thought “I wonder how cash it took?” It made absolutely no sense otherwise. That dude was a top 10 recruit in the country and top 250 all time. He was being recruited by every major program. Bama, Clemson, OSU, Florida, etc. All of a sudden he commits to Tennessee lol.

[Assembly Hall]

The Vols need to get a guy that cheats without getting caught....ya know, the SEC way.

[RiverRat13]

Is Tennessee going to let Clay Travis run its coaching search again this time?

[WVRed]

The Vols need to get a guy that cheats without getting caught....ya know, the SEC way.

Does McDonalds bags full of cash count?:


https://247sports.com/Article/Jeremy-Pruitt-fired-Tennessee-Vols-football-NCAA-recruiting-violations-McDonalds-bags-cash-coaching-search-159558159/

Dan Patrick is pushing for Jason Witten.

[KronoRed]

https://i.ibb.co/SRjcd0b/FB-IMG-1611078732805.jpg

[adkindo]

It’s so funny. I remember when Darnell Wright committed to the Vols. I immediately thought “I wonder how cash it took?” It made absolutely no sense otherwise. That dude was a top 10 recruit in the country and top 250 all time. He was being recruited by every major program. Bama, Clemson, OSU, Florida, etc. All of a sudden he commits to Tennessee lol.

WVU made a strong push near the end....it was right when Neal Brown got hired. I think at that point Bama, Ohio State and others had kind of moved on. It appeared WVU had maybe a 10% chance....they sent the whole damn athletic department to his house, but he stuck with Tennessee. At the time, the claim was his head coach had ties to Tennessee. Who knows, maybe the coach got some action also. Wright and Nester claimed Dana and staff did not even really recruit them....I guess because 4 and 5 Stars are a dime a dozen in WV! Dana was not a big recruiter, but he really was not into putting effort into recruiting WV kids for some weird reason....I think the dude just did not like WV and did not enjoy traveling around WV to recruit.

[adkindo]

In all fairness to U of Tenn, I think most people thought Pruitt had a chance to succeed there when he was hired. Regardless of any rules being broken, he just did not get the job done....it happens to even the best programs. A bad hire is a killer. Throwing mud against the wall here, but I almost wonder if him and his staff was so focused in making recruiting splashes to a fan base that is delusional, that it got in the way of actually building a culture and seeking the kids that would fit in that culture? I think Tennessee has been a Top 25 recruiting program, but Pruitt first class that he had a full year to recruit came in at #13, then a Top 10 class in 2020.....and they still sucked.

[adkindo]

Does McDonalds bags full of cash count?:


https://247sports.com/Article/Jeremy-Pruitt-fired-Tennessee-Vols-football-NCAA-recruiting-violations-McDonalds-bags-cash-coaching-search-159558159/

Dan Patrick is pushing for Jason Witten.

I think you give the people what they want.....the return of Lane. You want media attention....you want to be the topic of college football, bring back Lane!

https://forgifs.com/gallery/d/199825-2/Excited-football-coach.gif

[WVRed]

WVU made a strong push near the end....it was right when Neal Brown got hired. I think at that point Bama, Ohio State and others had kind of moved on. It appeared WVU had maybe a 10% chance....they sent the whole damn athletic department to his house, but he stuck with Tennessee. At the time, the claim was his head coach had ties to Tennessee. Who knows, maybe the coach got some action also. Wright and Nester claimed Dana and staff did not even really recruit them....I guess because 4 and 5 Stars are a dime a dozen in WV! Dana was not a big recruiter, but he really was not into putting effort into recruiting WV kids for some weird reason....I think the dude just did not like WV and did not enjoy traveling around WV to recruit.


My understanding with Dana and it’s ultimately why he left WVU is the same reason Billy Gillespie flamed out at UK. He wanted to coach and be left alone. Football in WV is like basketball in Kentucky, the fans are passionate and you are the most popular person in the state with the exception of Bob Huggins. Imagine going out to dinner with your wife and people constantly coming up to you wanting autographs and to throw their two cents in on football. Here’s an article about Gillespies time in Lexington and I think you’ll find it similar:

https://kentuckysportsradio.com/1/the-closing-of-the-gillispie-era/

I remember when Josh Jenkins was at Parkersburg High and a five star recruit and going to Wheeling to watch him play in the state championship and seeing Urban Meyer (then at Florida) at the game. One of the stories I heard about Jenkins during his recruitment was that Charlie Weis (at Notre Dame) said to him “If you go to WVU you can get a job anywhere in the state of West Virginia but if you go to Notre Dame you can get a job anywhere in the world”. He immediately crossed Notre Dame off the list. He went to WVU under Stewart but I always wonder if he would have gotten to the NFL playing anywhere else.

[adkindo]

My understanding with Dana and it’s ultimately why he left WVU is the same reason Billy Gillespie flamed out at UK. He wanted to coach and be left alone. Football in WV is like basketball in Kentucky, the fans are passionate and you are the most popular person in the state with the exception of Bob Huggins. Imagine going out to dinner with your wife and people constantly coming up to you wanting autographs and to throw their two cents in on football. Here’s an article about Gillespies time in Lexington and I think you’ll find it similar:

https://kentuckysportsradio.com/1/the-closing-of-the-gillispie-era/

I remember when Josh Jenkins was at Parkersburg High and a five star recruit and going to Wheeling to watch him play in the state championship and seeing Urban Meyer (then at Florida) at the game. One of the stories I heard about Jenkins during his recruitment was that Charlie Weis (at Notre Dame) said to him “If you go to WVU you can get a job anywhere in the state of West Virginia but if you go to Notre Dame you can get a job anywhere in the world”. He immediately crossed Notre Dame off the list. He went to WVU under Stewart but I always wonder if he would have gotten to the NFL playing anywhere else.

yeah, I think if you recall Dana had some issues when he first got the WVU at a few facilities that serve adult beverages, and it kind of scarred him. I think he felt he could not go out in WV and have a good time because he was so recognizable as the WVU football coach. In Houston as the U of Houston football coach, he went from being an A list celebrity in WV to a C- list celebrity in Houston which better fit his lifestyle.

[bucksfan2]

My understanding with Dana and it’s ultimately why he left WVU is the same reason Billy Gillespie flamed out at UK. He wanted to coach and be left alone. Football in WV is like basketball in Kentucky, the fans are passionate and you are the most popular person in the state with the exception of Bob Huggins. Imagine going out to dinner with your wife and people constantly coming up to you wanting autographs and to throw their two cents in on football. Here’s an article about Gillespies time in Lexington and I think you’ll find it similar:

https://kentuckysportsradio.com/1/the-closing-of-the-gillispie-era/

I remember when Josh Jenkins was at Parkersburg High and a five star recruit and going to Wheeling to watch him play in the state championship and seeing Urban Meyer (then at Florida) at the game. One of the stories I heard about Jenkins during his recruitment was that Charlie Weis (at Notre Dame) said to him “If you go to WVU you can get a job anywhere in the state of West Virginia but if you go to Notre Dame you can get a job anywhere in the world”. He immediately crossed Notre Dame off the list. He went to WVU under Stewart but I always wonder if he would have gotten to the NFL playing anywhere else.

I always thought it was shocking that Rich Rod left WVU to go to Michigan. Not that Michigan isn't a better job, which it is, but that he would leave his hometown school for greener pastures. Granted WVU was in the Big East at the time, but there was still a chance they could have won a national championship.

All that said, if WVU fans treat football like UK fans treat basketball, it's a dangerous job. With every program you have to look at what the realistic expectations are and balance that with the fans expectations. When you look at WVU, they had a shot at the national title once in 20 years, I think that is about right, every once in a while when the stars align, you can have a great season. By its not a program you would expect to be a perennial contender. Its not even a program I would say should be in the mix for the ACC Championship game every season.

If what you said was true up above, it makes sense that Dana left for Houston.

[Boston Red]

Its not even a program I would say should be in the mix for the ACC Championship game every season.

If the fans expect to be in the mix for the ACC championship game in ANY season, it's an impossible job!

[adkindo]

If the fans expect to be in the mix for the ACC championship game in ANY season, it's an impossible job!

I totally disagree....WVU should be in the ACC Championship every year, and find a way to get into the SEC Championship every 3 years.

[adkindo]

I always thought it was shocking that Rich Rod left WVU to go to Michigan. Not that Michigan isn't a better job, which it is, but that he would leave his hometown school for greener pastures. Granted WVU was in the Big East at the time, but there was still a chance they could have won a national championship.

All that said, if WVU fans treat football like UK fans treat basketball, it's a dangerous job. With every program you have to look at what the realistic expectations are and balance that with the fans expectations. When you look at WVU, they had a shot at the national title once in 20 years, I think that is about right, every once in a while when the stars align, you can have a great season. By its not a program you would expect to be a perennial contender. Its not even a program I would say should be in the mix for the ACC Championship game every season.

If what you said was true up above, it makes sense that Dana left for Houston.

I knew what WVRed meant, and I do not think it is how you interpret. WVU fans do not demand their football team have similar success as UK's basketball team. He was just saying that most fans view WVU as a football school and that is where the passion lies. Dana may have left because of expectations to a degree, but not so much on the field. I think Dana had high expectations on the field, but in WV the Head Coach has a lot of spotlight and ambassador duties.....often more so that someone that does not reside there would expect. WV has no pro teams, and Marshall is viewed as a lower level of football.....and the fans view WVU Football as more than just a college football team. Dana just never really put himself out there and really never tried to embrace the state culture.....but I think the pressure to be more out there and to assimilate more into WV weighed on him. I think Dana's true role is an OC at a P5 school where he can just coach offense and live his life.

[adkindo]

Appears the floodgates to the portal have opened @ Tennessee

[WVRed]

I always thought it was shocking that Rich Rod left WVU to go to Michigan. Not that Michigan isn't a better job, which it is, but that he would leave his hometown school for greener pastures. Granted WVU was in the Big East at the time, but there was still a chance they could have won a national championship.

All that said, if WVU fans treat football like UK fans treat basketball, it's a dangerous job. With every program you have to look at what the realistic expectations are and balance that with the fans expectations. When you look at WVU, they had a shot at the national title once in 20 years, I think that is about right, every once in a while when the stars align, you can have a great season. By its not a program you would expect to be a perennial contender. Its not even a program I would say should be in the mix for the ACC Championship game every season.

If what you said was true up above, it makes sense that Dana left for Houston.

Rodriguez had flirted with Alabama the year before when they hired Saban. That took a major pay hike to get Rodriguez to stay and when he went back to the well a year later when Michigan came calling it didn’t go over very well.

As for WVU fans, Don Nehlen essentially bought job security from his success in the late 80s and rode it into retirement. The younger fans have a higher expectation though brought on by the RichRod era but most fans are more reasonable and are used to heartbreak such as the Pitt game and Major Harris

That said, WVU going to the Big 12 has likely diminished any chance of them ever fielding a playoff caliber football team. I’m not saying they made the wrong decision given the circumstances once the Big East collapsed but comparatively speaking the Big East was such a crapshoot and they had the guaranteed BCS bid. They do not have the resources to compete with Oklahoma and possibly Texas if Sarkisian gets it rolling.

[adkindo]

That said, WVU going to the Big 12 has likely diminished any chance of them ever fielding a playoff caliber football team. I’m not saying they made the wrong decision given the circumstances once the Big East collapsed but comparatively speaking the Big East was such a crapshoot and they had the guaranteed BCS bid. They do not have the resources to compete with Oklahoma and possibly Texas if Sarkisian gets it rolling.

I disagree....no, WVU is unlikely to ever overtake OK and TX as the annual premier team....but they definitely have a chance to field a Big12 Champion/playoff team from time to time. The Big East before the defections was as strong as the Big12 (late 90's and early 2000's), and we shared a couple Big East Championships during that period (but lost the tiebreakers). The 2007 WVU team could win the Big12/playoff.....the 2008 team rolled Big12 Champion in the Fiesta Bowl. Heck, Will Grier's team as a Senior beats Oklahoma and goes to the B12 Championship Game if Will does not literally lay the ball down on the turf twice and Oklahoma picks them up and return for TD's. I think you are way off in suggesting that WVU will never be able to contend for a playoff spot. I personally think next years team would have a good chance at getting to the B12 Championship game if we had a slightly more dynamic QB.

[WVRed]

I disagree....no, WVU is unlikely to ever overtake OK and TX as the annual premier team....but they definitely have a chance to field a Big12 Champion/playoff team from time to time. The Big East before the defections was as strong as the Big12 (late 90's and early 2000's), and we shared a couple Big East Championships during that period (but lost the tiebreakers). The 2007 WVU team could win the Big12/playoff.....the 2008 team rolled Big12 Champion in the Fiesta Bowl. Heck, Will Grier's team as a Senior beats Oklahoma and goes to the B12 Championship Game if Will does not literally lay the ball down on the turf twice and Oklahoma picks them up and return for TD's. I think you are way off in suggesting that WVU will never be able to contend for a playoff spot. I personally think next years team would have a good chance at getting to the B12 Championship game if we had a slightly more dynamic QB.

The Big 12 runs through Oklahoma. As long as that is happening WVU will have no chance to compete for a Big 12 title or sniff the playoff.

Who has WVU played in the Big East that compares to Oklahoma (or even Texas)? Miami and Virginia Tech are the two closest and like WVU they are shells of their former selves.

[adkindo]

PAC12 parted ways with Larry Scott


Bruce Feldman
@BruceFeldmanCFB

Name I've heard from several folks around college athletics about who would be a well-regarded successor to Larry Scott running the Pac-12: Oliver Luck, former CEO of the XFL and WVU athletic director. "He makes a lot of sense... so they probably wouldn't do it."

10:30 PM · Jan 20, 2021

[kaldaniels]

PAC12 parted ways with Larry Scott

Frankly I thought O Luck diving into the XFL was a pretty big lapse of judgement. Though I suspect the job is his here if he wants it.

[adkindo]

The Big 12 runs through Oklahoma. As long as that is happening WVU will have no chance to compete for a Big 12 title or sniff the playoff.

Who has WVU played in the Big East that compares to Oklahoma (or even Texas)? Miami and Virginia Tech are the two closest and like WVU they are shells of their former selves.

right....just like UF runs the SEC...oh wait, Tennessee runs the SEC...oh wait, Alabama runs the SEC. Things change....you do not recall a few years ago when Baylor and TCU split the conference championship? Also, not sure why it matters what Miami and Va. Tech are today....was Va. Tech bad when they had Vick and were playing in the 1999 National Championship Game? Did Miami suck when they won the 2001 National Championship....one of the best college football teams in the history of college football? That Miami team is better than anything Texas or Oklahoma has ever put on the field.

- - - Updated - - -


Frankly I thought O Luck diving into the XFL was a pretty big lapse of judgement. Though I suspect the job is his here if he wants it.

Assume it was $$. Honestly he has always struck me as a guy that is about the $$.

[WVRed]

right....just like UF runs the SEC...oh wait, Tennessee runs the SEC...oh wait, Alabama runs the SEC. Things change....you do not recall a few years ago when Baylor and TCU split the conference championship? Also, not sure why it matters what Miami and Va. Tech are today....was Va. Tech bad when they had Vick and were playing in the 1999 National Championship Game? Did Miami suck when they won the 2001 National Championship....one of the best college football teams in the history of college football? That Miami team is better than anything Texas or Oklahoma has ever put on the field.

- - - Updated - - -



Assume it was $$. Honestly he has always struck me as a guy that is about the $$.

When one team in the SEC has 14 conference championships compared to the next team having three then we can talk. Alabama has 28 while Georgia and Tennessee are tied for second most at 13 but keep in mind the SEC has been in existence longer than the Big 12.

It’s pretty telling though that you have to dig back 20 years ago. The game has changed significantly since then.

[Boston Red]

Oklahoma lost to Kansas State the last two years. They're not exactly unbeatable.

[adkindo]

When one team in the SEC has 14 conference championships compared to the next team having three then we can talk. Alabama has 28 while Georgia and Tennessee are tied for second most at 13 but keep in mind the SEC has been in existence longer than the Big 12.

It’s pretty telling though that you have to dig back 20 years ago. The game has changed significantly since then.

Talk about? I am missing the point of your statement in regards to the SEC? It is telling I went back 20 years? You are the one that brought up Miami and Va. Tech....and that is when they were in the Big East. It was you that compared them to Oklahoma and Texas....which is how these schools got brought up in the conversation. You arrived in the conversation with the claim that the odds were that WVU would never be able to field a playoff team, and I think that is silly. WVU was considered a strong playoff contender going into Grier's Senior season and that was 3 seasons ago. It was only 5 seasons ago that the two smallest schools in the conference, Baylor and TCU, were on the brink of playoff birth. Again, I am not suggesting that WVU will one day rule the Big12, but I also do not believe anyone would be shocked if WVU made the playoffs over the next 5 years...10 years.

[WVRed]

Talk about? I am missing the point of your statement in regards to the SEC? It is telling I went back 20 years? You are the one that brought up Miami and Va. Tech....and that is when they were in the Big East. It was you that compared them to Oklahoma and Texas....which is how these schools got brought up in the conversation. You arrived in the conversation with the claim that the odds were that WVU would never be able to field a playoff team, and I think that is silly. WVU was considered a strong playoff contender going into Grier's Senior season and that was 3 seasons ago. It was only 5 seasons ago that the two smallest schools in the conference, Baylor and TCU, were on the brink of playoff birth. Again, I am not suggesting that WVU will one day rule the Big12, but I also do not believe anyone would be shocked if WVU made the playoffs over the next 5 years...10 years.

Oklahoma has won the Big 12 14 times and the next closest was Texas at 3. Sorry for the confusion.

I’m not saying that they can’t catch lightning in a bottle and do it (obviously Baylor and TCU did) but it’s pretty much a given that any game is going through Oklahoma who WVU hasn’t beaten since they were in the Big East in the Fiesta Bowl.

We can agree to disagree but I don’t think the best of the Big East could match the Oklahoma teams now.

[adkindo]

We can agree to disagree but I don’t think the best of the Big East could match the Oklahoma teams now.

You truly do not think the 2001 Miami Dorsey team could match recent Oklahoma teams? Their RB room included Najeh Davenport, Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee, Frank Gore and Jarrett Payton....that is just unreal talent in one position room. Andre Johnson lined up @ WR....and Jeremy Shockey was the TE backed up by Kellen Winslow. Jerome McDougle and Bryant McKinnie was on the OLine. On defense they had William Joseph, Andrew Williams and Vince Wilfork on the DLine....Jonathan Vilma @ LB and Phillip Buchanon, Ed Reed and Antrel Rolle in the secondary. The roster had 11 NFL 1st Round picks. It may be the greatest collection of talent ever assembled on a single college football team. Some of its wins that season include....

49 - 27 @ #14 Florida State
33 - 7 @ Penn State
59 - 0 vs. #14 Syracuse
65 - 7 vs. #12 Washington
37 - 14 vs. #4 Nebraska

The only close game Miami played that season was a 26-24 win over #14 Virginia Tech. The 2001 Miami team could play with any team from any conference in any era.

[bucksfan2]

You truly do not think the 2001 Miami Dorsey team could match recent Oklahoma teams? Their RB room included Najeh Davenport, Clinton Portis, Willis McGahee, Frank Gore and Jarrett Payton....that is just unreal talent in one position room. Andre Johnson lined up @ WR....and Jeremy Shockey was the TE backed up by Kellen Winslow. Jerome McDougle and Bryant McKinnie was on the OLine. On defense they had William Joseph, Andrew Williams and Vince Wilfork on the DLine....Jonathan Vilma @ LB and Phillip Buchanon, Ed Reed and Antrel Rolle in the secondary. The roster had 11 NFL 1st Round picks. It may be the greatest collection of talent ever assembled on a single college football team. Some of its wins that season include....

49 - 27 @ #14 Florida State
33 - 7 @ Penn State
59 - 0 vs. #14 Syracuse
65 - 7 vs. #12 Washington
37 - 14 vs. #4 Nebraska

The only close game Miami played that season was a 26-24 win over #14 Virginia Tech. The 2001 Miami team could play with any team from any conference in any era.

The glory days of the Big East were pretty good. Granted it was carried mostly by Miami, but Va Tech was pretty good in that period and BC was nothing to sneeze at. When the ACC came in and raided the Big East, that pretty much ended that conference as a power.

I always thought the UC, WVU, UL Big East was a step below the other power conferences. I thought UC has a chance playing an ok Va Tech in the Orange Bowl, but that games wasn't particularly close. Even to add to that, UC coming off the best season in program history, was thought to be a few seconds away from playing for the title, was boatraced by Florida in the Sugar Bowl. Those seasons were fun to watch UC play in the Big East, but it always felt to me like the conference was step below.

I do believe that when Miami and Va Tech to a lesser extent left, they lost their national power. They lost that team that was going to be the face of the league. It would be similar to what would happen if OSU and PSU and Michigan left the B1G. You may have some good teams, but you lost your powers.

FWIW, OSU in 2002 may have broken the Big East.

[Boston Red]

I always thought the UC, WVU, UL Big East was a step below the other power conferences.

That league was consistently as good or better than the ACC. Low bar, sure, but it got a bad rap in that particular discussion. And the ACC continues to generally suck.

The enormity of WV's win over Georgia in the Sugar Bowl after the 2005 season cannot be overestimated for the cause of the legitimacy of that league.

Just went back through it, and Big East/American teams went 6-3 in BCS bowl games in that era. It was just UC dragging the league down in that respect! :)

[bucksfan2]

That league was consistently as good or better than the ACC. Low bar, sure, but it got a bad rap in that particular discussion. And the ACC continues to generally suck.

The enormity of WV's win over Georgia in the Sugar Bowl after the 2005 season cannot be overestimated for the cause of the legitimacy of that league.

The ACC has been a mess for about two decades now. That said, the still manage to have one national championship caliber team. It was FSU at the start of the playoff era and now Clemson. But once you get past that one team, the rest of the league is pretty bad.

Always thought the Big East was a good league that just didn't have the team that could win it all. It would have been interesting to see the Rich Rod WVU team play OSU had they not lost to Pitt. It was a down year for college football, I don't think WVU would have won, but that OSU team was good, not great, and had some flaws. That was kind of the beginning of the Jim Tressel teams that were content on winning the B1G and not building a national contender.

[Boston Red]

I'm still heartbroken than 2006 Louisville blew the 25-7 lead at Rutgers and missed their shot at the Ohio State team that Florida killed in the title game.

[Assembly Hall]

The ACC has been a mess for about two decades now. That said, the still manage to have one national championship caliber team. It was FSU at the start of the playoff era and now Clemson. But once you get past that one team, the rest of the league is pretty bad.



I have always that the ACC was bad. That be from '73 on...

[adkindo]

That league was consistently as good or better than the ACC. Low bar, sure, but it got a bad rap in that particular discussion. And the ACC continues to generally suck.

The enormity of WV's win over Georgia in the Sugar Bowl after the 2005 season cannot be overestimated for the cause of the legitimacy of that league.

Just went back through it, and Big East/American teams went 6-3 in BCS bowl games in that era. It was just UC dragging the league down in that respect! :)

It was just low on "brands"....even today some fan conflate quality with "brands". The ACC has schools like Georgia Tech who won a National Championship in 1990 and still live a little off that brand, but they would not finish in the top half of the AAC.

[bucksfan2]

It was just low on "brands"....even today some fan conflate quality with "brands". The ACC has schools like Georgia Tech who won a National Championship in 1990 and still live a little off that brand, but they would not finish in the top half of the AAC.

The ACC has had a national champion contender each season since I can remember. I think that is what lifts the league up more than anything else. Its pretty much a hollow conference, one top team and the rest blah, but they had that one power team.

The Big East didn't have any brands when Miami and Va Tech left, but I don't think I would consider Ga Tech a brand. There just weren't any blue blood powers in the league. There weren't teams who could move the needle of force a national discussion.

[adkindo]

The ACC has had a national champion contender each season since I can remember. I think that is what lifts the league up more than anything else. Its pretty much a hollow conference, one top team and the rest blah, but they had that one power team.

The Big East didn't have any brands when Miami and Va Tech left, but I don't think I would consider Ga Tech a brand. There just weren't any blue blood powers in the league. There weren't teams who could move the needle of force a national discussion.

Everyone has a brand, and my point was not that Georgia Tech has a big brand, but they have a national championship in the last 30ish years and are a long time member of a P5 conference.....but even though they have not been good at football for a while, most fans of teams in P5 conferences would rather add Georgia Tech over Cincinnati. Brands matter in college football, and if anyone would recognize that I would think it is a fan of a Big10 team. The Big 10 usually goes much deeper in brands than it does quality.

[Assembly Hall]

Everyone has a brand, and my point was not that Georgia Tech has a big brand, but they have a national championship in the last 30ish years and are a long time member of a P5 conference.....but even though they have not been good at football for a while, most fans of teams in P5 conferences would rather add Georgia Tech over Cincinnati. Brands matter in college football, and if anyone would recognize that I would think it is a fan of a Big10 team. The Big 10 usually goes much deeper in brands than it does quality.

What exactly is your definition of a "brand?"

[adkindo]

What exactly is your definition of a "brand?"

Just the overall perception of the institutions name value and where it is perceived they belong in hierarchy. For example, if we came to an agreement to relegate some of the bad P5 teams to a G6 conference, and I recommended the University of Illinois....there would be a lot of pushback. Illinois has not been good at football on any consistent basis for a long time, but its brand significantly outweighs its actual quality. Nebraska still carries a huge brand, but has not had a quality product in years.....to a less degree similar to Maryland. If someone suggested the ACC should add Cincinnati and drop Syracuse to improve the quality of the football in the conference, few fans would think that is a good idea because Syracuse is where Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Donavan McNabb, Marvin Harrison, Art Monk, etc. played at and their rich history in football elevates their brand above anything they have put on the field in decades.

[adkindo]

Darnell Wright
@darnell_5232

Follow @304wave on Instagram if you want to know where I'll be playing this year :). posting tomorrow

7:47 PM · Jan 24, 2021

I am hoping WVU, but I have no idea. I have seen predictions for WVU, Ohio State and even Marshall. Even saw suggestions it will be he is remaining @ Tennessee.

https://247sports.com/player/darnell-wright-46035563/

[adkindo]

I am hoping WVU, but I have no idea. I have seen predictions for WVU, Ohio State and even Marshall. Even saw suggestions it will be he is remaining @ Tennessee.

https://247sports.com/player/darnell-wright-46035563/

sounds like the most credible people are claiming he is announcing he is staying at UT

[bucksfan2]

Just the overall perception of the institutions name value and where it is perceived they belong in hierarchy. For example, if we came to an agreement to relegate some of the bad P5 teams to a G6 conference, and I recommended the University of Illinois....there would be a lot of pushback. Illinois has not been good at football on any consistent basis for a long time, but its brand significantly outweighs its actual quality. Nebraska still carries a huge brand, but has not had a quality product in years.....to a less degree similar to Maryland. If someone suggested the ACC should add Cincinnati and drop Syracuse to improve the quality of the football in the conference, few fans would think that is a good idea because Syracuse is where Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Donavan McNabb, Marvin Harrison, Art Monk, etc. played at and their rich history in football elevates their brand above anything they have put on the field in decades.

Illinois has no brand in football anymore. Its a joke of a football program, and has been for over a decade. Their last relevance as a power was decades ago.

Nebraska is hanging on by a thread, but the further we are removed from the glory days, the further they slip from relevancy.

I don't think Syracuse moves the needle at all. What does Syracuse bring to the table.

Some teams that still have a "brand" name IMO would be Miami, FSU, Stanford, MSU, Iowa, etc. Teams that bring something to the table, teams that either have some flash, have been good in the recent past, have a fertile recruiting grounds, or sell out each and every game like Nebraska.

Illinois, Maryland, Syracuse, Georgia Tech of the schools you mentioned have no pull in the current version of college football.

[adkindo]

Illinois has no brand in football anymore. Its a joke of a football program, and has been for over a decade. Their last relevance as a power was decades ago.

Nebraska is hanging on by a thread, but the further we are removed from the glory days, the further they slip from relevancy.

I don't think Syracuse moves the needle at all. What does Syracuse bring to the table.

Some teams that still have a "brand" name IMO would be Miami, FSU, Stanford, MSU, Iowa, etc. Teams that bring something to the table, teams that either have some flash, have been good in the recent past, have a fertile recruiting grounds, or sell out each and every game like Nebraska.

Illinois, Maryland, Syracuse, Georgia Tech of the schools you mentioned have no pull in the current version of college football.

So you are saying is the ACC was adding a school and the choices were Illinois, Maryland and Cincinnati, it would be a toss up based on brand/perception?

[bucksfan2]

So you are saying is the ACC was adding a school and the choices were Illinois, Maryland and Cincinnati, it would be a toss up based on brand/perception?

Perception matters to a certain extent. If you are looking at those three teams, UC would be 3rd, but I don't think it's perception of the football programs that does that. Both Maryland and Illinois are the state school whereas UC is not. Also, the ACC would look to expand into a market, with the DC area topping both what UC and Illinois can bring.

Personally I think UC would be a better get than Illinois, but if Illinois can bring the Chicago market (which it probably can) then UC doesn't stand a chance.

Perception says UC is a much better football program than either of those two teams. But all the other factors are why UC would face an uphill battle joining a conference.

[15fan]

In the above hypothetical, there would be zero interest in the ACC to bring back Maryland.

Maybe even less than zero interest.

Continue.

[Slyder]

Huff could be a great hire for Marshall....I would give them an A for the hire. I heard RichRod was interested and had some support with boosters, but Marshall just refused to go with another "WVU guy". I think RichRod could have been dangerous at Marshall in that conference. First, I think he would have woke up every morning with the goal of building a team that caused people in WV to say Marshall may be better than WVU....and second, I think he will go balls to the wall knowing it would likely be his last chance to rebuild his reputation. I get why they went with Huff, and do not blame them.....but I do think RichRod would have been very interesting there.

He'll be gone within 3 seasons and Marshall will wonder if it was worth getting rid of Holliday. I think they end up regretting bowing to Governor Coal Baron.

[Slyder]

I always thought it was shocking that Rich Rod left WVU to go to Michigan. Not that Michigan isn't a better job, which it is, but that he would leave his hometown school for greener pastures. Granted WVU was in the Big East at the time, but there was still a chance they could have won a national championship.

All that said, if WVU fans treat football like UK fans treat basketball, it's a dangerous job. With every program you have to look at what the realistic expectations are and balance that with the fans expectations. When you look at WVU, they had a shot at the national title once in 20 years, I think that is about right, every once in a while when the stars align, you can have a great season. By its not a program you would expect to be a perennial contender. Its not even a program I would say should be in the mix for the ACC Championship game every season.

If what you said was true up above, it makes sense that Dana left for Houston.

Rod waited 1 year too long IMO. I think his offense and recruiting would have been a great fit at Bama. Big 10 (outside of Urban) is/was still 3 yards and a cloud of dust and he just couldn't get going. It also didn't help when he called Michigan "just another game".

[Slyder]

That league was consistently as good or better than the ACC. Low bar, sure, but it got a bad rap in that particular discussion. And the ACC continues to generally suck.

Thank BSPN's money for keeping ACC relevant until Clemson got going.

[*BaseClogger*]

Big 10 (outside of Urban) is/was still 3 yards and a cloud of dust and he just couldn't get going.

This hasn't been true for like 25 years. Joe Tiller's offense at Purdue was called "basketball on grass". Northwestern was a pioneering spread team. I could go on...

[bucksfan2]

Rod waited 1 year too long IMO. I think his offense and recruiting would have been a great fit at Bama. Big 10 (outside of Urban) is/was still 3 yards and a cloud of dust and he just couldn't get going. It also didn't help when he called Michigan "just another game".

I briefly went back and looked and good lord OSU was headed in the wrong direction during Tressel's final years. The recruiting was pretty terrible for that program.

Anyway, I always thought Rich Rod's problem is he wanted to play with fast, but undersized players all over the field. I think that worked well in the Big East where the teams they were playing didn't have quite the players that that the other leagues had. He tried to implement that in the B1G, and you ran up against teams who were just as fast, but bigger.

IMO Rich Rod would have failed everywhere he went unless he recruited at a high level as well. Had he gone to Bama and recruited at a high level, he could have succeeded. But I don't know if that was his MO. Remember at the time he turned Bama down, UM was a far better job.

[Assembly Hall]

Just the overall perception of the institutions name value and where it is perceived they belong in hierarchy. For example, if we came to an agreement to relegate some of the bad P5 teams to a G6 conference, and I recommended the University of Illinois....there would be a lot of pushback. Illinois has not been good at football on any consistent basis for a long time, but its brand significantly outweighs its actual quality. Nebraska still carries a huge brand, but has not had a quality product in years.....to a less degree similar to Maryland. If someone suggested the ACC should add Cincinnati and drop Syracuse to improve the quality of the football in the conference, few fans would think that is a good idea because Syracuse is where Jim Brown, Ernie Davis, Donavan McNabb, Marvin Harrison, Art Monk, etc. played at and their rich history in football elevates their brand above anything they have put on the field in decades.

So, a team's history(ancient or otherwise) is part of the brand? Fair enough.

[Assembly Hall]

I briefly went back and looked and good lord OSU was headed in the wrong direction during Tressel's final years. The recruiting was pretty terrible for that program.


Seems that the blue bloods hit that patch every so often. Most recover, some don't. I put Nebraska in the "won't recover" category.

[Revering4Blue]

Anyway, I always thought Rich Rod's problem is he wanted to play with fast, but undersized players all over the field. I think that worked well in the Big East where the teams they were playing didn't have quite the players that that the other leagues had. He tried to implement that in the B1G, and you ran up against teams who were just as fast, but bigger.

Save for his first season in Ann Arbor, when he didn't have 'his' type of QB on the roster, the offense was just fine. The defense was the issue - for reasons that have been discussed over and over here.

Unless we are to believe that Brady Hoke was/is some coaching savant - Spoiler: He wasn't/isn't - the '11 breakout season with Denard Robinson at QB would have assuredly happened coaching change or not, as adkindo pointed out earlier in this thread. But nobody's going to change anyone's mind at this point.


Remember at the time he turned Bama down, UM was a far better job.

A far better/stronger program than 'Bama at the time, yes.

The better job? No way. 'Bama simply hired dud after dud post Bear Bryant - Stallings, the notable exception - and promptly fell off the map. One caveat: IMHO, if not for the incident at the strip club, which cost Mike Price his job before coaching a game there, Price may well have been wildly successful there. At the time, no SEC team was running a one-back Pro-Set. And Franchione made a career-killing mistake by leaving 'Bama for A &M.

[Revering4Blue]

This hasn't been true for like 25 years. Joe Tiller's offense at Purdue was called "basketball on grass". Northwestern was a pioneering spread team. I could go on...

To borrow a phrase from RedTeamGo, That's a bingo!

While Tiller was the first B1G coach to be successful with a spread attack, the first to implement one full time was the late Jim Wacker at Minnesota '92-'96. It worked well if not for one lingering issue; Poor defenses year after year.

The late Hayden Fry at Iowa, as well as Mike White at Illinois, featured innovative, pass-happy attacks. So did the late Sam Wyche at IU, even though the team struggled in his one-and-only year in Bloomington, but he was building something.

Heck, even Joe Paterno loosened the reins during his team's undefeated '94 season with Kerry Collins at QB and Ki-Jana Carter at RB, by going up top more often than not.

[adkindo]

So, a team's history(ancient or otherwise) is part of the brand? Fair enough.

sure it matters....Indiana could miss the next 10 NCAA tournaments and it will still be viewed as a major basketball school. It may not be on the top tier level with schools like Duke, UK, Kansas, etc. because it has been a while since they were an annual threat......but their brand is going to be superior to Purdue can have an iconic era of elite level success. There is just too much history that may not be recent but is still in the modern era that will have an impact on it's perception. There is a limit....as in the University of San Francisco is no longer viewed as a national basketball power because their success was confined to a limited period and a lot of time has passed.

[adkindo]

I briefly went back and looked and good lord OSU was headed in the wrong direction during Tressel's final years. The recruiting was pretty terrible for that program.

Anyway, I always thought Rich Rod's problem is he wanted to play with fast, but undersized players all over the field. I think that worked well in the Big East where the teams they were playing didn't have quite the players that that the other leagues had. He tried to implement that in the B1G, and you ran up against teams who were just as fast, but bigger.

IMO Rich Rod would have failed everywhere he went unless he recruited at a high level as well. Had he gone to Bama and recruited at a high level, he could have succeeded. But I don't know if that was his MO. Remember at the time he turned Bama down, UM was a far better job.

RichRod's last couple teams at WVU could have contended in any conference....and I think that was proven in their bowl success against elite teams. He needed better recruits? Better than Pat White? Steve Slaton? Noel Devine?

[Boston Red]

Louisville was killing other BCS conference teams in that era too. The Big East was plenty good those years. If Rich Rod had fielded those same WV teams at Michigan, they'd have won big.

[bucksfan2]

Save for his first season in Ann Arbor, when he didn't have 'his' type of QB on the roster, the offense was just fine. The defense was the issue - for reasons that have been discussed over and over here.

Unless we are to believe that Brady Hoke was/is some coaching savant - Spoiler: He wasn't/isn't - the '11 breakout season with Denard Robinson at QB would have assuredly happened coaching change or not, as adkindo pointed out earlier in this thread. But nobody's going to change anyone's mind at this point.



A far better/stronger program than "Bama at the time, yes.

The better job? No way. "Bama simply hired dud after dud post Bear Bryant - Stallings, the notable exception - and promptly fell off the map. One caveat: IMHO, if not for the incident at the strip club, which cost Mike Price his job before coaching a game there, Price may well have been wildly successful there. At the time, no SEC team was running a one-back Pro-Set. And Franchione made a career-killing mistake by leaving "Bama for A &M.

Its interesting when you talk about Hoke. His best year was the last year before Urban took the job at OSU. You want to talk about a seachange for a conference, that was the moment. The conference's best teams kinda remind me of what Wisconsin is right now. They can have a quality season, but couldn't hold a candle against the elite programs.

As for Bama, I do think Michigan was a better program at the time. Bama was an afterthought on the national scene for most of the mid to late 90's and late into the 00's. Is there an alternative world where Bama hires Rich Rod, Michigan hires Saben, and Michigan is the dominant program for a decade plus? I feel like Bama's rise has coincided with Texas, FSU, and Miami turning into dumpster fires. Bama has been able to go in to Florida and Texas and take the best players. Had they hired Rich Rod we may be talking about Alabama like we do PSU, they were once a great program, can put together some great seasons, but aren't legit contenders.

[bucksfan2]

RichRod's last couple teams at WVU could have contended in any conference....and I think that was proven in their bowl success against elite teams. He needed better recruits? Better than Pat White? Steve Slaton? Noel Devine?

Yes. Pat White was the 609th rated player in his class. You don't build classes with one players. Granted the composite back then wasn't as accurate as it is today, but WVU's best class was rated 24th, and most of their classes were ranked 30 or below. Yea he did have some nice players, Noel Devine was the best player by far, and the reason the 07 class was considered the best. But they had two players rated in the top 200's. Just for comparison's sake, UF who had the best class had 16 players rated higher than WVU's 3rd rated recruit in that class.

[adkindo]

Yes. Pat White was the 609th rated player in his class. You don't build classes with one players. Granted the composite back then wasn't as accurate as it is today, but WVU's best class was rated 24th, and most of their classes were ranked 30 or below. Yea he did have some nice players, Noel Devine was the best player by far, and the reason the 07 class was considered the best. But they had two players rated in the top 200's. Just for comparison's sake, UF who had the best class had 16 players rated higher than WVU's 3rd rated recruit in that class.

Noel Devine was the highest rated player is what you mean? Devine clearly did not have the career of White or Slaton. At that time, RichRod had the secret formula, and I do not think the recruiting rankings can tell that story. He recruited to his system. Speed, speed, and more speed. Lineman were often small and quicker which is not going to rank well. RB's needed twitch and break away speed. Receivers were more quick than fast. It was all about spreading them out, and carving them up. Even the defense was built different with the 3-3 stack which often sought non-traditional players in those roles. You and I know WVU is never going to have Top 10 classes unless they won a couple national titles in a row. That is not about the coach...as much as it is about the programs stature. I personally think it is far more questionable if some of the blue blood coaches could come to WVU and replicate RichRod's success than it is if RichRod could have success at a Blue Blood. I think if Michigan gave a RichRod a legitimate chance to get that thing going, the dynamics in the Big10 "could/may" be very different today.

It is interesting, that era of RichRod & Bill Stewart did more for WVU's brand than the 1988 & 1993 undefeated teams....but it was not all about the winning. It was the style and.....the TV slots. If you recall, at that time every BCS/G5 team was not aired on national television like they basically are now. They had the College Ticket PPV thing....but maybe 2-3 games from each conference actually got on ESPN or a network. So the Big East began putting WVU on a lot of Thursday night games, and they were often big games like Miami and Va. Tech early on....then later Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. I think even the Rutgers game was a Thursday night game when they were actually good with Ray Rice and that group. It is easy to pack a stadium on a Thursday night in the school year, so that played well on television. I have met so many people from around the country over the last decade that comment to me about those WVU teams, and it was often because they were on the only live sports on television on Thursday. Still today, multiple recruits from other regions every year will mention them or their older brother/father being big fans of Pat White, Steve Slaton, Devine.....or the huge one is always Tavon Austin back in the day. I am not sure they get that exposure without the Thursday night showcases.

[Boston Red]

I'm still mad that Louisville was stupid enough to hurt Adam Bednarik.

[Revering4Blue]

RichRod's last couple teams at WVU could have contended in any conference....and I think that was proven in their bowl success against elite teams. He needed better recruits? Better than Pat White? Steve Slaton? Noel Devine?

And it's not as if the Big 10, as it was known at the time, featured standout QB play in '07 or so, when Pat White's injury knocked him out of the loss to Pitt - a game that an 85% win for WVU if not for that injury, rivalry game or not.

It's certainly a drastic different NCAA landscape than that era. Were a four team playoff system in place then, WVU would've assuredly qualified. Therefore, it's very doubtful that RichRod leaves for Michigan or any other job at that point, as he'd have no need to do so.

[Revering4Blue]

Louisville was killing other BCS conference teams in that era too. The Big East was plenty good those years. If Rich Rod had fielded those same WV teams at Michigan, they'd have won big.

I loved that '04 team with Stefan LeFlors at QB.

Also, BC sported some strong teams with Jagodzinski (sp?) in charge. Jettisoning Jagodzinski and Al Skinner proved to be the virtual death knell for BC football and hoops, respectively.

[WVRed]

And it's not as if the Big 10, as it was known at the time, featured standout QB play in '07 or so, when Pat White's injury knocked him out of the loss to Pitt - a game that an 85% win for WVU if not for that injury, rivalry game or not.

It's certainly a drastic different NCAA landscape than that era. Were a four team playoff system in place then, WVU would've assuredly qualified. Therefore, it's very doubtful that RichRod leaves for Michigan or any other job at that point, as he'd have no need to do so.

I know WVU fans who will go to their graves believing RichRod threw the Pitt game.

[Boston Red]

I loved that '04 team with Stefan LeFlors at QB.

Also, BC sported some strong teams with Jagodzinski (sp?) in charge. Jettisoning Jagodzinski and Al Skinner proved to be the virtual death knell for BC football and hoops, respectively.

Poor Stefan LeFors never had his name spelled or said correctly even by Louisville fans, and even though he was basically flawless his senior year everyone wanted to see the local golden boy Brian Brohm play.

I was living in Boston at the time and couldn't figure out for the life of me why BC would fire Jags for interviewing for an NFL head coaching job. The fact that he never really came back from that as a college coach is still bizarre to me.

[Revering4Blue]

Its interesting when you talk about Hoke. His best year was the last year before Urban took the job at OSU. You want to talk about a seachange for a conference, that was the moment. The conference's best teams kinda remind me of what Wisconsin is right now. They can have a quality season, but couldn't hold a candle against the elite programs.

Interesting and excellent points!


I feel like Bama's rise has coincided with Texas, FSU, and Miami turning into dumpster fires. Bama has been able to go in to Florida and Texas and take the best players.

Another spot-on point.

Who would've foreseen Texas falling off the map following their NC appearance against Bama, when QB Colt McCoy was knocked out of the game? Ditto for FSU following the Jameis Winston era. Miami, even though they were burned by the hiring of Al Golden, IMHO, made too many poor emotional 'one of our own' HC hires after Butch Davis left, though Diaz may break that mold when all is said and done.


Is there an alternative world where Bama hires Rich Rod, Michigan hires Saben, and Michigan is the dominant program for a decade plus?

I believe that's exactly what would have transpired. B1G fans of teams not named Michigan should all thank their lucky stars that the aforementioned scenario did not play out. Others, though not necessarily on this board, have suggested another scenario in which Saban goes to Bama anyway, Greg Schiano - their reported top choice after Les Miles - goes to Michigan, while RichRod heads to....Nebraska, which was still considered a top-tier job at the time, but no longer an elite program.


Had they hired Rich Rod we may be talking about Alabama like we do PSU, they were once a great program, can put together some great seasons, but aren't legit contenders.
We'll never know. But I'm still inclined to believe that, at the very least, the Alabama brass, unlike Michigan, would have at least provided ample resources (ponying up for a top-notch defensive coordinator, for example) and otherwise stayed out of RichRod's way. But it was likely a moot point, as it was rumored that RichRod's wife said "no way" to the Bama move after touring Tuscaloosa. Perhaps adkindo can elaborate here.

[Revering4Blue]

Poor Stefan LeFors never had his name spelled or said correctly even by Louisville fans, and even though he was basically flawless his senior year everyone wanted to see the local golden boy Brian Brohm play.

I was living in Boston at the time and couldn't figure out for the life of me why BC would fire Jags for interviewing for an NFL head coaching job. The fact that he never really came back from that as a college coach is still bizarre to me.

My fault. I must have had former MLB All-Star Ron LeFlore's name on my mind then.

Agree about Jagodzinski. He and Dana Bible, his OC, developed some exciting offenses which could simultaneously pound it on the ground or kill you through the air. You name the play, they ran it.

[Revering4Blue]

I know WVU fans who will go to their graves believing RichRod threw the Pitt game.

This isn't directed at you, as you are simply the messenger.....

But insert {You serious, Clark?} meme here.

[adkindo]

This isn't directed at you, as you are simply the messenger.....

But insert {You serious, Clark?} meme here.

there are actually a ton of them....it is crazy. Nobody...and I mean nobody would ever throw a game that would cost them a slot in the National Championship. WVU fans are caught up way to much in their feelings in regards to RichRod.

[WVRed]

This isn't directed at you, as you are simply the messenger.....

But insert {You serious, Clark?} meme here.

Dead. They believe he was already set on leaving for Michigan before the game was played.

[adkindo]

I'm still mad that Louisville was stupid enough to hurt Adam Bednarik.

it is interesting....I have heard a lot of WVU fans claim that if it happened earlier in the season, WVU may have ended up undefeated that season and in the national championship game. The problem is they would not have been because Texas and USC were also undefeated that year. It might have sucked more to be undefeated and still not get into the national championship game like we did in 1993.

[WVRed]

Looks like Danny White might be bringing Josh Heupel with him to Rocky Top:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/ucf-knights/os-sp-ucf-football-josh-heupel-tennessee-20210127-lqv2xbkbc5h6fooidk3nxzd3ea-story.html

[adkindo]

Looks like Danny White might be bringing Josh Heupel with him to Rocky Top:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/ucf-knights/os-sp-ucf-football-josh-heupel-tennessee-20210127-lqv2xbkbc5h6fooidk3nxzd3ea-story.html

Sucks for UCF....will be good for Tennessee if they get a good DC and give him a couple years. I am guessing there is some people in that locker room that will need to move on, and it will take time to rebuild the culture. He is fortunate that he has White as his AD who will give him time.

[Boston Red]

Congrats to Josh Heupel on doing a terrible job at UCF and failing upwards.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Congrats to Josh Heupel on doing a terrible job at UCF and failing upwards.

Did he? Fail upwards I mean.

[Boston Red]

He doubled his salary, so I would say he did.

[bucksfan2]

Noel Devine was the highest rated player is what you mean? Devine clearly did not have the career of White or Slaton. At that time, RichRod had the secret formula, and I do not think the recruiting rankings can tell that story. He recruited to his system. Speed, speed, and more speed. Lineman were often small and quicker which is not going to rank well. RB's needed twitch and break away speed. Receivers were more quick than fast. It was all about spreading them out, and carving them up. Even the defense was built different with the 3-3 stack which often sought non-traditional players in those roles. You and I know WVU is never going to have Top 10 classes unless they won a couple national titles in a row. That is not about the coach...as much as it is about the programs stature. I personally think it is far more questionable if some of the blue blood coaches could come to WVU and replicate RichRod's success than it is if RichRod could have success at a Blue Blood. I think if Michigan gave a RichRod a legitimate chance to get that thing going, the dynamics in the Big10 "could/may" be very different today.

It is interesting, that era of RichRod & Bill Stewart did more for WVU's brand than the 1988 & 1993 undefeated teams....but it was not all about the winning. It was the style and.....the TV slots. If you recall, at that time every BCS/G5 team was not aired on national television like they basically are now. They had the College Ticket PPV thing....but maybe 2-3 games from each conference actually got on ESPN or a network. So the Big East began putting WVU on a lot of Thursday night games, and they were often big games like Miami and Va. Tech early on....then later Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. I think even the Rutgers game was a Thursday night game when they were actually good with Ray Rice and that group. It is easy to pack a stadium on a Thursday night in the school year, so that played well on television. I have met so many people from around the country over the last decade that comment to me about those WVU teams, and it was often because they were on the only live sports on television on Thursday. Still today, multiple recruits from other regions every year will mention them or their older brother/father being big fans of Pat White, Steve Slaton, Devine.....or the huge one is always Tavon Austin back in the day. I am not sure they get that exposure without the Thursday night showcases.

Thursday night football did wonders for the Big East. Back when Miami was the U, I remember watching a game were UL gave them a run for their money, can't recall if they won or not. But you could put those games on and people would watch.

I think where you are wrong is on recruiting. Rich Rod may have prefered smaller quicker lineman, but the fallacy in that argument is the more highly rated players are bigger, stronger, and just as fast. We are talking about different decades, but to assume that Wyatt Davis or Paris Johnson Jr. aren't as fast because they are bigger is a poor argument.

In the Tressel heyday OSU has speed on the outside. They had skill position speed, but they were slow(ish) elsewhere. What changed when Urban got there is he recruited speed across the field. It wasn't just the WR's DB's and RB's who could run, it was everywhere. Its why its so shocking Tuf Borland played as much as he did, but I digress. The one program who has success with an innovative system using lesser recruits was Oregon, and even that had flaws when they ran into better competition. I do find it ironic that now Oregon recruits like every other big time power team in the country, its not a gimmick anymore.

[adkindo]

Congrats to Josh Heupel on doing a terrible job at UCF and failing upwards.

He really did not do a poor job. The defense failed them this past season, but if you actually look into the numbers, Heupel did a good job at maintaining UCF's high level of play.

Sometimes the ball just does not bounce your way.....those 3 regular season losses in 2019 were by a total of 7 points....and the 3 regular season losses in 2020 were by a total of 12 points. The narrative of the decline everyone is reporting is a simplistic view.

2018 - Average PPG - 43.23 | Average PPG Allowed - 22.69 (lost one game, the Bowl game against LSU with 3rd String QB) (#5 Offense in Country)
2019 - Average PPG - 43.38 | Average PPG Allowed - 23.00 (lost 3 regular season games by a total of 7 points with True Freshman QB) (#2 Offense in Country)
2020 - Average PPG - 42.20 | Average PPG Allowed - 33.20 (lost 3 regular season games by a total of 12 points and the defense declined) (#2 Offense in Country)

If you have followed the team, the difference is clear. UCF has lost a lot of talent in recent years to the Draft, but they have added a lot also as it remains a hot spot for transfers. The difference between Frost's final undefeated season as well as Heupel's first undefeated regular season and the two seasons that followed is no McKenzie Milton. Milton was under center in those 23 straight wins, and he was not under center for the 7 losses over the last 2 seasons. Milton was special....in a Pat White kind of way. I can't show you stats because Dillon Gabriel is just as talented, but Gabriel simply is not Milton. Everyone in that locker room....everyone in that stadium knew that Milton would always find a way to win. Milton was 8th in Heisman voting as a Sophomore and 6th as a Junior....the math is not hard. If Milton truly is healthy, he will do wonders for the FSU program this year.

[adkindo]

I think where you are wrong is on recruiting. Rich Rod may have prefered smaller quicker lineman, but the fallacy in that argument is the more highly rated players are bigger, stronger, and just as fast. We are talking about different decades, but to assume that Wyatt Davis or Paris Johnson Jr. aren't as fast because they are bigger is a poor argument.

Then how did they do it? How did they go into the Georgia Dome and beat SEC Champion Georgia in their backyard....a Georgia team that was coming off a 20 point win over #3 LSU in the SEC Championship game? How did they go to Arizona and beat Big12 Champion Oklahoma by 20 points....an Oklahoma team that was coming off a 21 point win over #1 Missouri in the Big12 Championship Game? How do you reconcile them beating the best team in the SEC and the best team in the Big12, but doubting they could contend in any conference?

[bucksfan2]

Then how did they do it? How did they go into the Georgia Dome and beat SEC Champion Georgia in their backyard....a Georgia team that was coming off a 20 point win over #3 LSU in the SEC Championship game? How did they go to Arizona and beat Big12 Champion Oklahoma by 20 points....an Oklahoma team that was coming off a 21 point win over #1 Missouri in the Big12 Championship Game? How do you reconcile them beating the best team in the SEC and the best team in the Big12, but doubting they could contend in any conference?

I don't put a lot of stock in bowl games unless they were BCS games or now Playoff games. A team who is happy to be there has a bigger advantage than a team who sees the game as a consolation prize.

You can point to a bowl record all you want, but after the start of the BCS Championship game, we have seen a gradual decline towards glorified exhibitions of bowl games.

[*BaseClogger*]

I don't put a lot of stock in bowl games unless they were BCS games or now Playoff games. A team who is happy to be there has a bigger advantage than a team who sees the game as a consolation prize.

You can point to a bowl record all you want, but after the start of the BCS Championship game, we have seen a gradual decline towards glorified exhibitions of bowl games.

I agree with this while also recognizing it was less of a phenomenon back then. But another factor is that holding up thru a conference schedule week-to-week with an undersized team is vastly different than performing at a high level in a dome after a month off...

[bucksfan2]

I agree with this while also recognizing it was less of a phenomenon back then. But another factor is that holding up thru a conference schedule week-to-week with an undersized team is vastly different than performing at a high level in a dome after a month off...

It wasn't to the point it is now, players aren't option out of bowl games. But I do think motivation plays a large role in these games.

The week to week schedule in a power conference does take a toll on undersized teams. You give me one game with a dynamic undersized QB and you have a great chance to win that game. You give me a week to week grind where those hits start to mount up, that is a big difference.

[WVRed]

Sucks for UCF....will be good for Tennessee if they get a good DC and give him a couple years. I am guessing there is some people in that locker room that will need to move on, and it will take time to rebuild the culture. He is fortunate that he has White as his AD who will give him time.

Fans hate the hire but to be honest I don’t know if Tennessee could have done better. They are also paying Kevin Steele a million dollars for two weeks of doing nothing.

Former players are calling Tennessee out for not hiring Tee Martin but forget he was part of a coaching staff that handed out McDonalds bags of cash to recruits.

[adkindo]

Fans hate the hire but to be honest I don’t know if Tennessee could have done better. They are also paying Kevin Steele a million dollars for two weeks of doing nothing.

Former players are calling Tennessee out for not hiring Tee Martin but forget he was part of a coaching staff that handed out McDonalds bags of cash to recruits.

They were never going to be happy with any realistic option. I do not even think Heupel takes the job if not for White being AD. Some Vols fans still think Gruden was an option.....not sure you can reason with those folks.

[adkindo]

I don't put a lot of stock in bowl games unless they were BCS games or now Playoff games. A team who is happy to be there has a bigger advantage than a team who sees the game as a consolation prize.

You can point to a bowl record all you want, but after the start of the BCS Championship game, we have seen a gradual decline towards glorified exhibitions of bowl games.

They were BCS games....and both teams had to pull off upsets to get there, so I am not buying the theory they were not excited to be there. If any team would be let down, it would be the team that thought they were going to the National Championship game before blowing their final game against a crappy Pitt team. We are just not going to agree as it is getting into arguing with a road sign territory.

[adkindo]

The week to week schedule in a power conference does take a toll on undersized teams. You give me one game with a dynamic undersized QB and you have a great chance to win that game. You give me a week to week grind where those hits start to mount up, that is a big difference.

There is some validity to this argument....as in if Ohio State was in the SEC, they would not have undefeated seasons.

[Assembly Hall]

There is some validity to this argument....as in if Ohio State was in the SEC, they would not have undefeated seasons.

What exactly does that have to do with an undersized QB? You put WV in the B1G or SEC and they would be lucky to finish over .500.

[bucksfan2]

There is some validity to this argument....as in if Ohio State was in the SEC, they would not have undefeated seasons.

I agree with this, if OSU was in the SEC they would have more losses. Although, I will argue that for a decade plus the SEC has been propped up by Bama and maybe one team from the East. Every once in a while a team will challenge, but reality is its Bama and then everyone else. One could say if OSU were in the SEC Bama would have a few more conference losses as well.

[adkindo]

I agree with this, if OSU was in the SEC they would have more losses. Although, I will argue that for a decade plus the SEC has been propped up by Bama and maybe one team from the East. Every once in a while a team will challenge, but reality is its Bama and then everyone else. One could say if OSU were in the SEC Bama would have a few more conference losses as well.

I was mostly just kidding with you as an Ohio State fan. I do think they would take more of a challenge weekly, but they would be contending in the conference.

[adkindo]

Interesting ESPN article putting teams into tiers for the upcoming season. Only 5 teams considered legit contenders...Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Ohio State and Oklahoma....I know I am shocked. Beyond that, Indiana, Kentucky, and WVU are in Tier 5 labeled High floor, low ceiling. I agree in regards to WVU....they should be better, but I do not see a significant improvement in record....maybe 1-2 more wins if things break our way. Still a year or two away from being in position to have a shot at challenging for the Big12 in my opinion. Also, I personally think Penn State and Texas are listed at least a Tier high....maybe two tiers.

Ranking all 130 college football teams in tiers for the 2021 season (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30742483/ranking-all-130-college-football-teams-tiers-2021-season)

[adkindo]

What exactly does that have to do with an undersized QB? You put WV in the B1G or SEC and they would be lucky to finish over .500.

ehh, WVU would roll Indiana 4 out of 5 years. :mooner:

[adkindo]

I was looking through Kiper's latest mock draft, and I noticed he has a UCF DB in the 1st Round (I think he was a transfer from Oklahoma). It reminded me of several UCF players have been drafted in higher rounds in recent years....which suggests the team does have a high level of talent. I bring this up because as a defender of UCF (and other high level G6 teams), there is always an argument about if they could succeed or not succeed in a P5 conference. Much of the time, there is a correlation between the level of passion behind the argument and the fans teams average position within their P5 conference. For example, most of the time Alabama or Ohio State fans do not get very emotional in arguing a UCF or Cincinnati does not belong in a P5 conference....but when you drop down several spots in a conference to a team like NC State or Oklahoma State, they seem to put a lot of effort in trying to convince you those teams are less than P5 teams (I know this well from fellow WVU fans), and then once you get down into the bottom 3rd teams in conferences, they become passionate in making a case that all P5 teams are superior to the best G5 teams. I understand the logic if you are Kansas Football trying to attach yourself to Oklahoma and Texas....but I do not think many of those lower third conference teams and even a lot of the middle of P5 conference teams are getting Day 1 and Day 2 guys in the draft every year....as UCF does most years. Their highest pick in each year....

2014 - 1st Round - Pick #3 - Blake Bortles
2015 - 1st Round - Pick #26 - Breshad Perriman
2016 - No picks on Day 1 or 2.
2017 - 3rd Round - Pick #90 - Shaquill Griffin
2018 - 1st Round - Pick #30 - Mike Hughes
2019 - 2nd Round - Pick #58 - Trysten Hill
2020 - No picks on Day 1 or 2, but Gabriel Davis was taken in the 4th Round and had a big rookie season with the Bills.

UCF's top end talent compares well with WVU's performance in the draft over the last 5-6 years.

[bucksfan2]

I was looking through Kiper's latest mock draft, and I noticed he has a UCF DB in the 1st Round (I think he was a transfer from Oklahoma). It reminded me of several UCF players have been drafted in higher rounds in recent years....which suggests the team does have a high level of talent. I bring this up because as a defender of UCF (and other high level G6 teams), there is always an argument about if they could succeed or not succeed in a P5 conference. Much of the time, there is a correlation between the level of passion behind the argument and the fans teams average position within their P5 conference. For example, most of the time Alabama or Ohio State fans do not get very emotional in arguing a UCF or Cincinnati does not belong in a P5 conference....but when you drop down several spots in a conference to a team like NC State or Oklahoma State, they seem to put a lot of effort in trying to convince you those teams are less than P5 teams (I know this well from fellow WVU fans), and then once you get down into the bottom 3rd teams in conferences, they become passionate in making a case that all P5 teams are superior to the best G5 teams. I understand the logic if you are Kansas Football trying to attach yourself to Oklahoma and Texas....but I do not think many of those lower third conference teams and even a lot of the middle of P5 conference teams are getting Day 1 and Day 2 guys in the draft every year....as UCF does most years. Their highest pick in each year....

2014 - 1st Round - Pick #3 - Blake Bortles
2015 - 1st Round - Pick #26 - Breshad Perriman
2016 - No picks on Day 1 or 2.
2017 - 3rd Round - Pick #90 - Shaquill Griffin
2018 - 1st Round - Pick #30 - Mike Hughes
2019 - 2nd Round - Pick #58 - Trysten Hill
2020 - No picks on Day 1 or 2, but Gabriel Davis was taken in the 4th Round and had a big rookie season with the Bills.

UCF's top end talent compares well with WVU's performance in the draft over the last 5-6 years.

There are plenty of schools who have top end talent. What separates the average from good and good from great is depth of talent. Sure UCF has had some nice talent, but they don't have the depth. Just for example, in the 2017 draft OSU had 6 guys taken before Shaquill Griffin. That same OSU team was run off the field by Clemson.

One of the best performances against OSU I have ever seen was Khalil Mack for Buffalo. He was the best player on the field that day, but OSU won by 20. That Buffalo team, with a top 5 draft pick went 8-5, failing to win their division in the MAC.

If you want to see where the talent lies, look at the 247 Sports Talent Composite Index.

FWIW, I think College Football is better when more teams are competitive, but as an OSU fan whose team is in the upper echelon, it doesn't bother me too much.

[adkindo]

There are plenty of schools who have top end talent. What separates the average from good and good from great is depth of talent. Sure UCF has had some nice talent, but they don't have the depth. Just for example, in the 2017 draft OSU had 6 guys taken before Shaquill Griffin. That same OSU team was run off the field by Clemson.

One of the best performances against OSU I have ever seen was Khalil Mack for Buffalo. He was the best player on the field that day, but OSU won by 20. That Buffalo team, with a top 5 draft pick went 8-5, failing to win their division in the MAC.

If you want to see where the talent lies, look at the 247 Sports Talent Composite Index.

FWIW, I think College Football is better when more teams are competitive, but as an OSU fan whose team is in the upper echelon, it doesn't bother me too much.

depth is a big difference between the elite teams and the good teams....WVU never has the depth of blue bloods either. I was not comparing the good G6 teams to blue bloods....I was comparing them more to the middle and bottom of P5 conference programs.

[bucksfan2]

depth is a big difference between the elite teams and the good teams....WVU never has the depth of blue bloods either. I was not comparing the good G6 teams to blue bloods....I was comparing them more to the middle and bottom of P5 conference programs.

I think the middle you are talking about, not the blue bloods or current top tier, is where coaching or scheme can take you to the next level. Its where coaching can take a G6 team over the top when compared to most G5 schools.

[Roy Tucker]

One of the best performances against OSU I have ever seen was Khalil Mack for Buffalo. He was the best player on the field that day, but OSU won by 20. That Buffalo team, with a top 5 draft pick went 8-5, failing to win their division in the MAC.



Side note: I was at that game. I remember reading about Mack pre-game And thought it was hype. It wasn’t. Like you said, he was clearly the best player on the field. Returned an INT for a TD and generally wrecked a lot of Buckeye plays. I remember a sack/fumble recovery by Mack that could have turned the game but he got called for a penalty somehow. I was like jeez, who is this guy. Not MAC level talent.

[bucksfan2]

Side note: I was at that game. I remember reading about Mack pre-game And thought it was hype. It wasn’t. Like you said, he was clearly the best player on the field. Returned an INT for a TD and generally wrecked a lot of Buckeye plays. I remember a sack/fumble recovery by Mack that could have turned the game but he got called for a penalty somehow. I was like jeez, who is this guy. Not MAC level talent.

There were a couple of performances against OSU that made me say wow over the last decade or so. Mack's was probably the most surprising being it came from Buffalo. There was another time BGSU came into OSU and gave them quite a scare in 2003. Josh Harris was BGSU's QB and played one heck of game, Krenzel must have been hurt because he didn't play, but that 2003 OSU team was pretty good. Urban had his fingerprints on that BGSU team leaving for Utah the year prior.

JJ Watt terrorized Terrelle Pryor for an entire game when Wisconsin beat OSU. Rondale Moore was unstoppable in a huge upset. But yea there are some performances that stick with you, and Mack is one of them.

[adkindo]

UCF football names Gus Malzahn as new head coach (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30905563/ucf-finalizing-deal-gus-malzahn-become-new-head-coach)


ORLANDO, Fla. -- UCF hired former Auburn football coach Gus Malzahn on Monday, signing him to a five-year, $11.5 million contract and banking on the offensive background and name recognition he brings with him.

I will wait and see how it plays out, but it appears to be a solid hire for UCF.

[KronoRed]

Probably a wise hire, any up and comer will just be looking for a bigger job right away, Gus will probably be sticking around awhile.

[WVRed]

Probably a wise hire, any up and comer will just be looking for a bigger job right away, Gus will probably be sticking around awhile.

I don’t know, it kinda strikes me as Cincinnati hiring Tommy Tuberville because Mark Dantonio and Butch Jones left for other jobs.

[Boston Red]

I don’t know, it kinda strikes me as Cincinnati hiring Tommy Tuberville because Mark Dantonio and Butch Jones left for other jobs.

I was thinking Charlie Strong at USF

[RedTeamGo!]

So, you’re telling me Gus Malzahn is on his way to becoming a US Senator?

[adkindo]

So, you’re telling me Gus Malzahn is on his way to becoming a US Senator?

that is the dots I connected.

In regards to Gus staying at UCF longer than an up and comer, that will depend on his opportunities. The contract was written with the buyout getting very low after about year two, and I am sure Gus wanted it that way for a reason. If he gets to a NY6 Bowl or two and a Top 15ish P5 program calls, I would assume he is gone. UCF may have been better is Gus was in the 59-60 years old age range becasuse the odds really begin to decrease for elite jobs after 60, or at least it seems that way in my lifetime. He is 55 and that is still in the age range and big program will be interested in if he has early success.

[Chip R]

Les Miles out at Kansas.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31030339/les-miles-kansas-jayhawks-head-football-coach

[KronoRed]

For what he did at LSU

The cheats always skate on by

[adkindo]

I have not kept up with the Spring games this year, and WVU has not played their game yet. This morning I was watching some of FSU's from last week, and McKenzie Milton looked impressive after almost a 2 year absence. He played a couple series, but clearly appeared to look the best of their QB group. He dropped a couple dimes to his receivers including one for a TD. He also broke off a nice run on that rebuilt leg...showed good burst/speed. If he is QB#1 and remains healthy this year, I think FSU will surprise a lot of people this year....the kid is special.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GPtDqgySJM

[adkindo]

Found this article to be a little misleading, but it provides a look at conference payouts from recent year.

Big Ten led all Power Five conferences in revenue for 2020 fiscal year (https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/Big-Ten-led-all-Power-Five-conferences-in-revenue-for-2020-fiscal-year-COVID-19-165687503/)


Total revenue:

Big Ten $768.9 million
SEC: $728.9 million
Pac-12: $533.8 million
ACC: $496.7 million
Big 12: $409.2 million



School payouts

Big Ten: $54.3 million
SEC: $45.5 million
Big 12: $37 to $40.5 million
Pac-12: $33.6 million
ACC: $30.9 to $37 million


1. Everyone is on different timelines. The primary reason the Big10 is on top is because they are on the most recently signed deal. I think their deal was signed in 2017ish.....the Big12 is on a 2012 deal and the SEC's deal is older than that.

2. The article does break down a per school amount which is rare in these articles. It is often reported that the Big12 is far behind every other conference in revenue without pointing out they have only 10 schools compared to the PAC12 with 12 schools and the other 3 conferences with 14 teams each.

3. This one drives me crazy....they never distinguish that the Big10, ACC and SEC (unsure about PAC12) amounts include Tier 3 rights revenue, but the Big12 schools receive Tier 3 rights revenue directly and are not included in conference revenue or payout per school. The Tier 3 rights revenue per school have been in the $4 - $8 Million range in past years. In regards to payout per school, if the Big12 included Tier 3 rights revenue, the schools would be similar to the SEC.

[Sea Ray]

Pete talks about how he once considered playing football for the Tennessee Volunteers

https://volswire.usatoday.com/2021/05/23/pete-rose-details-being-offered-to-play-football-at-tennessee-vols-mlb-hit-king-speaks-at-hardin-valley/

[Assembly Hall]

TSN...https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/college-football-rankings-top-25-alabama-clemson-ohio-state/m6gbiea8dvjr15gqedl1vo7xj

[BuckeyeRed27]

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-playoff-expansion-plan-043900023.html

Sounds like the 12 team playoff is the current leader. Would include automatic bids, byes for the top 4 and opening round games on campuses.

[adkindo]

A lot of speculation that WVU is going to post a very high recruiting class for 2022 (compared to their normal recruiting) from people not associated with the program. Steve Wiltfong from 247 (aka The Oracle) just wrote an article and put in 5 crystal balls for 4 Star guys to WVU. It could be false speculation or kids could simply change their minds before announcing....but the noise is good right now.

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/West-Virginia-recruiting-Neal-Brown-commits-247Sports-Crystal-Ball-166562372/

[bucksfan2]

A lot of speculation that WVU is going to post a very high recruiting class for 2022 (compared to their normal recruiting) from people not associated with the program. Steve Wiltfong from 247 (aka The Oracle) just wrote an article and put in 5 crystal balls for 4 Star guys to WVU. It could be false speculation or kids could simply change their minds before announcing....but the noise is good right now.

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/West-Virginia-recruiting-Neal-Brown-commits-247Sports-Crystal-Ball-166562372/

Quickly looking at these players, they seem to be the type of players a WVU needs to recruit, and win. Most have "good" offers, but not to tier offers. It's the type of players that Dantonio recruited at MSU and led them to being a playoff team. Recruit them, get them into the program, develop them, and then in years 3 and 4 you have one heck of a nucleus.

I do wonder about a team like WVU who has a slew of quality recruits and the battle to hang onto the recruits if they have a great senior season. What happens if that Stokes kid blows up and Michigan offers? Or one of the FL kids gets a UF, GA, or Bama offer? I think this 2021 class may be the craziest one in a long time. Most of these kids had jacked up Jr seasons and there will be a rash to commit to secure a spot in a program, and if you blow up, will the big boys come calling?

[adkindo]

Quickly looking at these players, they seem to be the type of players a WVU needs to recruit, and win. Most have "good" offers, but not to tier offers. It's the type of players that Dantonio recruited at MSU and led them to being a playoff team. Recruit them, get them into the program, develop them, and then in years 3 and 4 you have one heck of a nucleus.

I do wonder about a team like WVU who has a slew of quality recruits and the battle to hang onto the recruits if they have a great senior season. What happens if that Stokes kid blows up and Michigan offers? Or one of the FL kids gets a UF, GA, or Bama offer? I think this 2021 class may be the craziest one in a long time. Most of these kids had jacked up Jr seasons and there will be a rash to commit to secure a spot in a program, and if you blow up, will the big boys come calling?

That is the life of a non-blue blood P5 program....there is always a risk of a blue blood or fringe blue blood making a run to get a kid to flip near December when they have a kid flip or get in trouble....or anything that creates a hole in their class. The key to this class will come with Nicco Marchiol's (4 Star QB that decommitted from FSU) announcement this Monday....as it seems like he is the kind of high level recruit that can/will get other recruits excited. Everyone thinks WVU is in the driver seat for him, but he is doing his final OV this weekend at his hometown school Arizona State. Most did not expect him to choose them before the bad news broke yesterday, but you never know.

WVU can and should be able to have Top 25 classes on a perennial basis in my opinion, but our recruiting nosedived under Dana. He basically pulled out of Florida and initially tried to recruit in the traditional Big12 region....and that did not work. RichRod proved WVU could get 4 Star kids from Florida and the SE to Morgantown....and WVU's facilities have came a long way since RichRod. Brown has focused on Florida, Georgia and our traditional border states.....but his staff has also been making inroads into places like Michigan, Indiana and the NE which has never really been a strong territory for us recruiting.

[Slyder]

That is the life of a non-blue blood P5 program....there is always a risk of a blue blood or fringe blue blood making a run to get a kid to flip near December when they have a kid flip or get in trouble....or anything that creates a hole in their class. The key to this class will come with Nicco Marchiol's (4 Star QB that decommitted from FSU) announcement this Monday....as it seems like he is the kind of high level recruit that can/will get other recruits excited. Everyone thinks WVU is in the driver seat for him, but he is doing his final OV this weekend at his hometown school Arizona State. Most did not expect him to choose them before the bad news broke yesterday, but you never know.

WVU can and should be able to have Top 25 classes on a perennial basis in my opinion, but our recruiting nosedived under Dana. He basically pulled out of Florida and initially tried to recruit in the traditional Big12 region....and that did not work. RichRod proved WVU could get 4 Star kids from Florida and the SE to Morgantown....and WVU's facilities have came a long way since RichRod. Brown has focused on Florida, Georgia and our traditional border states.....but his staff has also been making inroads into places like Michigan, Indiana and the NE which has never really been a strong territory for us recruiting.

I'd dispute that he didn't/couldn't recruit to WVU. He didn't get to a full 75 scholarships until something like 2014, our qbs when he got here was Geno Smith, Geno Smith, Geno Smith because Stewart chased Brunetti and spent more time trying to open a "Samoan Pipeline" than truly recruiting. He built everything around winning with Will Greer and relying on 5th year transfers. Someone recruited and developed the likes of Karl Joseph, Kevin White, and Nick Kwiatkowski among others.

[Sea Ray]

Jimmy Kimmel gets his own Bowl game:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31649472/jimmy-kimmel-title-sponsor-la-bowl-which-debut-december

Should he really be the first Bowl named after an actual person?

[BuckeyeRed27]

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/2021/06/123157/former-usc-linebacker-palaie-gaoteote-iv-listed-in-ohio-states-student-directory

It’s not completely official but seems like Palaie Gaoteote is transferring from USC to Ohio State. Linebacker is a big question mark for the Buckeyes and injuries have kept Gaoteote from living up to his 5 star rating, but if he’s healthy he’s a massive get.

[adkindo]

I'd dispute that he didn't/couldn't recruit to WVU. He didn't get to a full 75 scholarships until something like 2014, our qbs when he got here was Geno Smith, Geno Smith, Geno Smith because Stewart chased Brunetti and spent more time trying to open a "Samoan Pipeline" than truly recruiting. He built everything around winning with Will Greer and relying on 5th year transfers. Someone recruited and developed the likes of Karl Joseph, Kevin White, and Nick Kwiatkowski among others.

Sure they found some diamonds in the rough (or were lucky?) and maybe developed some guys, but none of those guys you mentioned were high level recruits. Joseph was a 3 Star recruit, White was a low 3 Star JUCO recruit, and Kwiatkoski was barely a 3 Star (1,375th ranked player) that chose between WVU and Bowling Green.

[adkindo]

Jimmy Kimmel gets his own Bowl game:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31649472/jimmy-kimmel-title-sponsor-la-bowl-which-debut-december

Should he really be the first Bowl named after an actual person?

It will likely be about as entertaining as his show is most nights.

[bucksfan2]

Jimmy Kimmel gets his own Bowl game:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31649472/jimmy-kimmel-title-sponsor-la-bowl-which-debut-december

Should he really be the first Bowl named after an actual person?

You could buy the sponsorship to a bowl game and call it the "SeaRay Game." I think it highlights the ridiculous nature of bowl games, not naming it after one person.

[Boston Red]

We've had the Amos Alonzo Stagg Bowl for quite a few years.

[adkindo]

We've had the Amos Alonzo Stagg Bowl for quite a few years.

Yeah, but that is in honor or memorial of an individual.....the Kimmel Bowl could become the Fallon Bowl next year or whenever the naming rights are up for sale again. As I have always said, I have no issue with the dumb sponsor names for bowls, but I think they should all have a non-sponsor name attached. I think this bowl is called the Kimmel L.A. Bowl which I am fine with because the bowl is the L.A. Bowl.....unlike the Cheez-It Bowl which has no actual bowl name beyond the sponsor.

[adkindo]

and the first shoe drops.....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4bZXJoXwAws3iQ?format=jpg&name=small

[RedTeamGo!]

Great hair

[WVRed]

and the first shoe drops.....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4bZXJoXwAws3iQ?format=jpg&name=small

Great he committed but it means little without a signature. Seen it way too many times as a UK fan.

[RedTeamGo!]

Jimmy Kimmel gets his own Bowl game:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31649472/jimmy-kimmel-title-sponsor-la-bowl-which-debut-december

Should he really be the first Bowl named after an actual person?

Who could care? There are bowls named after lawnmowers, Sony PlayStation, potatoes, and Outback Steakhouse. It’s a joke already.

[adkindo]

Great hair

What is it with these QB's in recent years....it is like a near requirement over the last 5ish years for a QB to at least try to have something besides the traditional high and tight cut most young football players once had. I am just saying I would not want to be out there in Arizona this August doing drills with that long hair.

[adkindo]

Great he committed but it means little without a signature. Seen it way too many times as a UK fan.

Unless something significant happens....I think he is a near lock to sign. It is speculated that he has a small group of upcoming commitments that are loosely connected to him....and he is already all over social media recruiting undecided guys. I would not bet my house on it.....but maybe my car.

[Assembly Hall]

What is it with these QB's in recent years....it is like a near requirement over the last 5ish years for a QB to at least try to have something besides the traditional high and tight cut most young football players once had. I am just saying I would not want to be out there in Arizona this August doing drills with that long hair.

This young QBs have to be Kenny Stabler fans.

[RedTeamGo!]

What is it with these QB's in recent years....it is like a near requirement over the last 5ish years for a QB to at least try to have something besides the traditional high and tight cut most young football players once had. I am just saying I would not want to be out there in Arizona this August doing drills with that long hair.

Lol, chicks dig it.

[Chip R]

Who could care? There are bowls named after lawnmowers, Sony PlayStation, potatoes, and Outback Steakhouse. It’s a joke already.

Yeah. Why I'm old enough to remember them naming bowls after fruit, condiments and flowers.

[Assembly Hall]

Yeah. Why I'm old enough to remember them naming bowls after fruit, condiments and flowers.

Ahhh the good ole days. Nothing like the Tangerine Bowl.

[Boston Red]

How about the Cereal Bowl between St. Olaf and Carleton College?

https://www.stolaf.edu//news/index.cfm?fuseaction=NewsDetails&id=2513

[Slyder]

Yeah. Why I'm old enough to remember them naming bowls after fruit, condiments and flowers.

Or Animals, I always loved the Gator Bowl. It saddens me that once great bowl that was one of the stalwarts (in providing top 25 matchups at least) of non big 4 Jan 1 bowls is now SEC 6 or 7 vs Big 10 7. That bowl deserves so much better.

[Assembly Hall]

Or Animals, I always loved the Gator Bowl. It saddens me that once great bowl that was one of the stalwarts (in providing top 25 matchups at least) of non big 4 Jan 1 bowls is now SEC 6 or 7 vs Big 10 7. That bowl deserves so much better.

I do believe the Gator is one of the oldest bowls? WWII era?

[cumberlandreds]

I do believe the Gator is one of the oldest bowls? WWII era?


1946 was when it started. Also Woody Hayes fondly remembers this bowl. :)

I always like the Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl/ It was always played on New Years Eve night. A good way to ring out the old year.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gator_Bowl

[adkindo]

I always liked it when the Rose, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Citrus, Gator, Cotton and Outback Bowls were played on New Years Day (some were played on the 2nd a few years). It was the greatest day of football all year.

[UKFlounder]

I always liked it when the Rose, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Citrus, Gator, Cotton and Outback Bowls were played on New Years Day (some were played on the 2nd a few years). It was the greatest day of football all year.


Yep. I still remember the Orange Bowl being last, at 8:00 that night on NBC with Don Criqui and Bob Trumpy announcing it.

[cumberlandreds]

Yep. I still remember the Orange Bowl being last, at 8:00 that night on NBC with Don Criqui and Bob Trumpy announcing it.

I'm so old I can remember Jim Simpson doing the game. I can't remember who the analyst was though?

Used to be Cotton, Rose and Orange. I thought I was in heaven having all those games on in one day.

[WVRed]

Unless something significant happens....I think he is a near lock to sign. It is speculated that he has a small group of upcoming commitments that are loosely connected to him....and he is already all over social media recruiting undecided guys. I would not bet my house on it.....but maybe my car.

2022 commit. A lot could happen between now and then. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mark Stoops cashes in for a better job and/or Scott Satterfield gets fired by Louisville. That happens and Neal Brown is the top candidate at two schools in his home state one of which he played at.

I understand recruiting is universal but Arizona isn’t exactly recruiting territory for West Virginia. If this was Pennsylvania, Maryland or even Florida I’d be more likely to think he’s a near lock but homesickness can definitely become a factor.

[Roy Tucker]

I'm so old I can remember Jim Simpson doing the game. I can't remember who the analyst was though?

Used to be Cotton, Rose and Orange. I thought I was in heaven having all those games on in one day.

I think it was Al DeRogatis and Kyle Rote.

[Assembly Hall]

2022 commit. A lot could happen between now and then. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mark Stoops cashes in for a better job and/or Scott Satterfield gets fired by Louisville. That happens and Neal Brown is the top candidate at two schools in his home state one of which he played at.



I perceive WVU as a better job than Louisville/Kentucky...

[cumberlandreds]

I think it was Al DeRogatis and Kyle Rote.

:thumbup: DeRogatis was the one I trying to think of. I believe he normally teamed with Simpson on the Orange Bowl.

[WVRed]

I perceive WVU as a better job than Louisville/Kentucky...

10 years ago I would agree. I think it’s even now.

I mention Brown to Kentucky/Louisville because he’s from there. Doesn’t mean he would leave WVU but it’s not like it’s a step down.

[Assembly Hall]

10 years ago I would agree. I think it’s even now.

I mention Brown to Kentucky/Louisville because he’s from there. Doesn’t mean he would leave WVU but it’s not like it’s a step down.

Fair enough. I guess I could see it as a lateral move.

[adkindo]

Fair enough. I guess I could see it as a lateral move.

In regards to football straight up....success, brand, etc. in recent history (2-3 decades), I do not consider U of L or UK equal to WVU. The caveat with UK is that they are in the SEC and that still carries weight on a coaches resume now that UK is competitive in football. I personally do not think Brown would exit WVU for U of L if he is "happy", but there has been speculation that UK would be a job he favors because he played a couple season there before transferring and is from the state. I am not sure if that is based on knowledge or just assumptions....either way, I would always consider an SEC opening (except Vanderbilt) to be a threat. I personally think WVU fans are still scarred from RichRod leaving, and assume every coach that has success will bounce. Dana left also, but Dana left because he was about a year away from being asked to leave.

[RiverRat13]

Interesting topic I saw brought up in The Athletic - schools like Notre Dame and Penn State may well end up putting names on the back of jerseys due to NIL. A lot of schools don't allow freshmen to talk to the media - that may end up going away due to NIL as well. Schools will want to give every advantage for their players to market themselves.

[Assembly Hall]

Interesting topic I saw brought up in The Athletic - schools like Notre Dame and Penn State may well end up putting names on the back of jerseys due to NIL. A lot of schools don't allow freshmen to talk to the media - that may end up going away due to NIL as well. Schools will want to give every advantage for their players to market themselves.

Interesting. Never thought about it for the NIL. TY. FWIW IU does not have names on the backs of jerseys in basketball.

[adkindo]

Interesting. Never thought about it for the NIL. TY. FWIW IU does not have names on the backs of jerseys in basketball.

Personally do not care about if teams have names on jersey's.....but I do not like the teams that have had that tradition to have to change it. Didn't IU football remove the names for a year or two recently before putting them back on?

[Assembly Hall]

Personally do not care about if teams have names on jersey's.....but I do not like the teams that have had that tradition to have to change it. Didn't IU football remove the names for a year or two recently before putting them back on?

Yes IU did.

BTW....https://www.wane.com/high-school-sports/leo-football-star-landen-livingston-commits-to-west-virginia/

[WVRed]

https://youtu.be/-lAI_9CMuMc

RIP Bobby Bowden

[WVRed]

WVU and THE Ohio University are playing a three game series starting in 2025.

Here’s the thing, first game is at Peden Stadium in Athens.

I know a lot of WVU fans who aren’t happy that they are traveling to play a MAC school but they might be on the same level by then.

[bucksfan2]

WVU and THE Ohio University are playing a three game series starting in 2025.

Here’s the thing, first game is at Peden Stadium in Athens.

I know a lot of WVU fans who aren’t happy that they are traveling to play a MAC school but they might be on the same level by then.

Recruiting? OSU played an "away" game against Toledo one year at the Browns stadium.

If you are an Ohio or Western PA kid, its a lot easier to make it to Athens than it is Morgantown.

[Danny Serafini]

Recruiting? OSU played an "away" game against Toledo one year at the Browns stadium.

I was at that game. It was originally supposed to be at the Glass Bowl in Toledo, but UT moved it because they could sell a whole lot more tickets in Cleveland. It was weird, UT was still the home team so they ran all the local ads on the big screen and had all the local signage up around the stadium even though it was in Cleveland. Didn't give them any kind of home field advantage though, OSU destroyed them.

[bucksfan2]

I was at that game. It was originally supposed to be at the Glass Bowl in Toledo, but UT moved it because they could sell a whole lot more tickets in Cleveland. It was weird, UT was still the home team so they ran all the local ads on the big screen and had all the local signage up around the stadium even though it was in Cleveland. Didn't give them any kind of home field advantage though, OSU destroyed them.

It was never about home field advantage. It was about them selling tickets (IIRC in order to get tickets you had to be a UT season ticket holder.) For OSU it allowed them to play a game in Cleveland.

[adkindo]

WVU and THE Ohio University are playing a three game series starting in 2025.

Here’s the thing, first game is at Peden Stadium in Athens.

I know a lot of WVU fans who aren’t happy that they are traveling to play a MAC school but they might be on the same level by then.

Maybe you can prepare me to tell what that is like....I mean outside the last 5 years, UK has been MAC level in football? ;) Honestly, do not get how someone could reside in the state of WV and have so much animosity for the university athletics....

WVU football will have a seat at the big table.....I would bet on it. :cool:

[adkindo]

Recruiting? OSU played an "away" game against Toledo one year at the Browns stadium.

If you are an Ohio or Western PA kid, its a lot easier to make it to Athens than it is Morgantown.

That is the claim at least....we have been doing pretty good in Ohio with a lot of kids that schools like Michigan State use to grab....basically the high level kids that do not get a Ohio State offer. I feel like Cincinnati and even Indiana is in there now also recruiting the kids that do not get Ohio State offers.

[adkindo]

Nicole Auerbach
@NicoleAuerbach

News: The Big Ten, Pac-12 and ACC are expected to make a formal announcement about their alignment soon, perhaps as early as next week, multiple sources told @TheAthletic.

This isn't just about scheduling. More:

8:08 AM · Aug 20, 2021

https://theathletic.com/news/big-ten-pac-12-acc-alliance-expected-to-be-formally-announced-soon-sources/qQ7aaP9CvLAD


Why these three conferences?
Nicole Auerbach, college football senior writer: As much fun as it is to theorize about future nonconference games between Clemson, Ohio State and Oregon, that isn't necessarily all a potential Big Ten, Pac-12 and ACC alliance is about.

The Alliance — which really needs to be the official name of this, with capitalization, please — goes far beyond the concepts of scheduling and television inventory.

There are many administrators in the Big Ten, Pac-12 and ACC who believe in the collegiate model and want it to continue; even those who have enthusiastically embraced name, image and likeness reform don't want to see college football become an actual minor league system for the NFL with a draft, player salaries and the like. They worry that the SEC's aggression could lead to something like that.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Curious about the details, but it basically sounds like a Fox vs ESPN fight more than anything else at this point.

[KronoRed]

A bigger beefier version of the old CFA?

[bucksfan2]

Curious about the details, but it basically sounds like a Fox vs ESPN fight more than anything else at this point.

Very well could be. But I do think it sounds like the B1G wanted more say so on the expanded playoff.

Now with an alliance it sounds like the B1G, ACC, and Pac 12 will have much more power in determining what the new playoff looks like.

[adkindo]

Curious about the details, but it basically sounds like a Fox vs ESPN fight more than anything else at this point.

Not sure because ESPN has 100% of the ACC. This is why I am surprised....how did the ACC take part in this alliance that has a primary purpose of not allowing the SEC to control the direction of college football with the SEC about to be ESPN's premier product.

Btw, get ready for ESPN going off the rails in pushing the SEC once they take over that CBS contract. I do not think SportsCenter and similar ESPN programming has the power it once did, but it will still push the SEC more than ever.

[adkindo]

Just something I heard on the radio that I found interesting and likely true.....this year we will begin to get a lot of "these are the 6 or 7 teams in playoff contention" as always, but we will also get a ton of "this team would be included if it was a 12 team playoff format" in an attempt to push fans to want the playoff expanded. I bet we get tons of graphics, etc. all year....and if you are a Wisconsin fan in Week 10 out of playoff contention, but they keep showing that graphic that would included you in an expanded format, it is likely you are going to want an expanded playoff sooner than later.

[bucksfan2]

Not sure because ESPN has 100% of the ACC. This is why I am surprised....how did the ACC take part in this alliance that has a primary purpose of not allowing the SEC to control the direction of college football with the SEC about to be ESPN's premier product.

Btw, get ready for ESPN going off the rails in pushing the SEC once they take over that CBS contract. I do not think SportsCenter and similar ESPN programming has the power it once did, but it will still push the SEC more than ever.

Its about leverage going forward. Its about the B1G, ACC, and Pac12 gaining power in the negotiations.

As for the ACC, there were rumblings that Clemson and FSU were being talked to by the SEC. Had Clemson/FSU gone, you can almost guarantee the B1G would have come poaching.

I also think the three conferences were aware of what the SEC and ESPN did to OU and Texas and didn't want that happening to their respective conferences.

[adkindo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQl1iewrZMg

"you familiar with Crackle?"

[Assembly Hall]

Its about leverage going forward. Its about the B1G, ACC, and Pac12 gaining power in the negotiations.

As for the ACC, there were rumblings that Clemson and FSU were being talked to by the SEC. Had Clemson/FSU gone, you can almost guarantee the B1G would have come poaching.

I also think the three conferences were aware of what the SEC and ESPN did to OU and Texas and didn't want that happening to their respective conferences.

You make/made it sound like OU and Texass went unwillingly. LOL

[KronoRed]

The first score of the new FBS season is a self inflicted Safety from Nebraska.

[GAC]

The first score of the new FBS season is a self inflicted Safety from Nebraska.

LMAO

Next weeks game with visiting Fordham has no line (lol). Smack! They play Buffalo the following week; but their remaining schedule (IMO) is pretty tough. I don't see them getting four wins this year, and how Frost keeps his job? His star QB is a turnover machine.

[RedTeamGo!]

I wonder if Frost will take a job in the MAC

[paintmered]

His star QB is a turnover machine.

Joe Burrow? No thanks, we've got our guy!

[Assembly Hall]

I wonder if Frost will take a job in the MAC

Saban will hire him as an assistant.

[KronoRed]

Nebraska is dead and can't do any better, they should keep him forever :D

[UKFlounder]

Frost has a $20 million buyout, but maybe they try to use the NCAA investigation to fire him with cause

https://www.on3.com/news/scott-frost-situation-20-million-buyout-trev-alberts-nebraska-football/

[BuckeyeRed27]

I wonder if Frost will take a job in the MAC

I really can’t believe Frost and Harbaugh haven’t done better. Both are seemingly ideal fits for those programs and have had ample time and the results are…yikes.

[Assembly Hall]

I really can’t believe Frost and Harbaugh haven’t done better. Both are seemingly ideal fits for those programs and have had ample time and the results are…yikes.

At least Harbaugh gets Michigan into bowl games...but yeah, ideal fits for both schools.

[GAC]

At least Harbaugh gets Michigan into bowl games

Absolutely true , but..... he's 1-4 in Bowl games since he was hired in 2015. He has no B1G championships to his credit, nor has any of his teams appeared in one. I don't even count the '20 season beause of all that was going on with the pandemic. But in 5 seasons, he's had 14 regular season losses. For a proud Michigan program that's not good.

And Michigan's "demise" has, IMO, hurt the B1G.

[Assembly Hall]

Absolutely true , but..... he's 1-4 in Bowl games since he was hired in 2015. He has no B1G championships to his credit, nor has any of his teams appeared in one. I don't even count the '20 season beause of all that was going on with the pandemic. But in 5 seasons, he's had 14 regular season losses. For a proud Michigan program that's not good.

And Michigan's "demise" has, IMO, hurt the B1G.

I can't argue any of that...but Michigan's record under Harbaugh looks pretty good to Husker fans. And the B1G needs Nebraska to rise from the ashes as well.

[bucksfan2]

I can't argue any of that...but Michigan's record under Harbaugh looks pretty good to Husker fans. And the B1G needs Nebraska to rise from the ashes as well.

Michigan under Harbaugh is successful for about 80-90% of the programs in the country. Unfortunately, Michigan is in the top 5-10% where it isn't ok.

I am not quite sure what has gone so wrong at Nebraska, and I do wonder if its time to pull the plug on Frost, but what does success look like at Nebraska now?

[Slyder]

Michigan under Harbaugh is successful for about 80-90% of the programs in the country. Unfortunately, Michigan is in the top 5-10% where it isn't ok.

I am not quite sure what has gone so wrong at Nebraska, and I do wonder if its time to pull the plug on Frost, but what does success look like at Nebraska now?

Wing T & Triple Option doesn't work like it use to. Nebraska thrived when they could just get 5 big cornfed guys up front and just maul you. They just don't have the population to compete in recruiting and they haven't been able to find the right guy to build those pipelines.

[GAC]

I can't argue any of that...but Michigan's record under Harbaugh looks pretty good to Husker fans. And the B1G needs Nebraska to rise from the ashes as well.

Two storied programs that have fallen on hard times for quite some time. IMO, it says more about the HC and his ability, or lack thereof, to evaluate, attract, and sign talent. I think his era can be defined by play/production (and lack thereof) he's gotten out of the QB position.

https://www.maizenbrew.com/football/2021/6/7/22523308/michigan-football-ranking-the-quarterbacks-of-the-jim-harbaugh-era

[Chip R]

Wing T & Triple Option doesn't work like it use to. Nebraska thrived when they could just get 5 big cornfed guys up front and just maul you. They just don't have the population to compete in recruiting and they haven't been able to find the right guy to build those pipelines.

Well, if all it took were to get big cornfed guys, there would have been a lot of other schools in the midwest that were powerhouses back in the day. Their secret was that they were one of the frontrunners in weight training. They would come in weighing 180, 200 and leave weighing 280, 300 just by lifting weights. Then they would recruit their skill position players from out of state. New Jersey was a fertile recruiting ground for them. Of course, like any good program, they mined Texas and Florida. Also, the game has changed. To be successful, you need a QB who can throw first and run second. Plus, everyone is doing weight training now. Plus their conference got better in the last few decades of the 20th Century. I'm sure they tried to keep up with the Joneses but they aren't special anymore. Now they are in a new conference where they have no history and several good to excellent teams.

[adkindo]

I really can’t believe Frost and Harbaugh haven’t done better. Both are seemingly ideal fits for those programs and have had ample time and the results are…yikes.

I would have damn near bet my house that Frost would have had success @ Nebraska....at least get them back to being to being competitive with Wisconsin and Iowa in the West. I do not get it....the way his players would run through a wall for him @ UCF has not translated. I am beginning to hear some rumblings about his arrogant attitude not doing him any favors in Lincoln....with the media, boosters, recruiting, etc.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I would have damn near bet my house that Frost would have had success @ Nebraska....at least get them back to being to being competitive with Wisconsin and Iowa in the West. I do not get it....the way his players would run through a wall for him @ UCF has not translated. I am beginning to hear some rumblings about his arrogant attitude not doing him any favors in Lincoln....with the media, boosters, recruiting, etc.

The motivation stuff is certainly a factor, but for me it’s player development. I mean this for both Frost and Harbaugh. They’ve both recruited at least ok since they’ve been there, but have any of their guys gotten better? Adrian Martinez is arguably worse. You get a top prospect like Donovan Peoples-Jones who does nothing at Michigan, gets drafted in the sixth round and in his second year is the break out star of Browns training camp.

[Assembly Hall]

I would have damn near bet my house that Frost would have had success @ Nebraska....at least get them back to being to being competitive with Wisconsin and Iowa in the West. I do not get it....the way his players would run through a wall for him @ UCF has not translated. I am beginning to hear some rumblings about his arrogant attitude not doing him any favors in Lincoln....with the media, boosters, recruiting, etc.

As GAC pointed out about the QBs, Frost's "money" appears to be tied to Martinez. For whatever reason that is his guy. And Frost was the absolute sure-fire hire. But Scott needs/needed to go in a different direction for a signal caller.

[Assembly Hall]

The motivation stuff is certainly a factor, but for me it’s player development. I mean this for both Frost and Harbaugh. They’ve both recruited at least ok since they’ve been there, but have any of their guys gotten better? Adrian Martinez is arguably worse. You get a top prospect like Donovan Peoples-Jones who does nothing at Michigan, gets drafted in the sixth round and in his second year is the break out star of Browns training camp.

I would venture to say that Harbaugh wouldn't be so frowned about if (1) he could beat tOSU and (2) win a bowl game. Geez, the guy has won 10 games 3x and 9 another. But it seems that the Buckeye woes and 4 straight bowl losses are paramount. Note to Michigan fans...look at Nebraska, Tennessee, and USC.

[Sea Ray]

Tennessee starts their season tomorrow night with Michigan's 2020 QB. I was not impressed with him and I don't expect him to do well in Knoxville due to having crap for brains but if I'm wrong then this will reflect very poorly on Harbaugh. In fact it could be his death knell in Ann Arbor

- - - Updated - - -


As GAC pointed out about the QBs, Frost's "money" appears to be tied to Martinez. For whatever reason that is his guy. And Frost was the absolute sure-fire hire. But Scott needs/needed to go in a different direction for a signal caller.

And to think I was given all sorts of flak around here when Tennessee lost Martinez to Nebraska....

[RedTeamGo!]

What has Milton done to have “crap for brains” - did he do something bad on campus?

[adkindo]

The motivation stuff is certainly a factor, but for me it’s player development. I mean this for both Frost and Harbaugh. They’ve both recruited at least ok since they’ve been there, but have any of their guys gotten better? Adrian Martinez is arguably worse. You get a top prospect like Donovan Peoples-Jones who does nothing at Michigan, gets drafted in the sixth round and in his second year is the break out star of Browns training camp.

Makes me wonder how history may be different if McKenzie Milton follows him to Nebraska which some people expected. Maybe Milton does not rip up his knee, and he was a much better QB than Martinez for a Frost offense.

[adkindo]

And to think I was given all sorts of flak around here when Tennessee lost Martinez to Nebraska....

WVU thought they had a good chance at getting him. If you recall, he originally committed to Cal and was recruited by Jake Spavital the OC. Then Spavital left Cal and went to WVU which is why Martinez decommitted. A lot of people thought he would follow Spavital to WVU, but he committed to Tennessee...for a minute.

[Chip R]

I would venture to say that Harbaugh wouldn't be so frowned about if (1) he could beat tOSU and (2) win a bowl game. Geez, the guy has won 10 games 3x and 9 another. But it seems that the Buckeye woes and 4 straight bowl losses are paramount. Note to Michigan fans...look at Nebraska, Tennessee, and USC.

I believe that if Harbaugh weren't a "Michigan Man" and didn't have the NFL success he had, he'd be gone by now.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think Buckeyes will give up some points tonight. OSU 45 Minn 28

[Boston Red]

Spread moved down from 14 to 13.5, crossing a threshhold that really makes it inviting to look at OSU. Don't know. I'm sure Minnesota won't win, but they may row the boat pretty well.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Spread moved down from 14 to 13.5, crossing a threshhold that really makes it inviting to look at OSU. Don't know. I'm sure Minnesota won't win, but they may row the boat pretty well.

Looks like they are gonna play in a rain storm, so having a boat could help.

[Boston Red]

If Mitchell gets tossed, this game will get interesting.

Looked like the right call to overturn.

[RedTeamGo!]

Miyan Williams is way faster than I expected him to be

[membengal]

stroud looking jittery so far.

[Boston Red]

stroud looking jittery so far.

Minnesota has to find a way to make Stroud beat them. He probably will, but that's their only shot.

Ibrahim is good. First time I've seen Minnesota play in a couple years, and I've apparently missed out watching that kid.

[Roy Tucker]

I don’t care how good he is, it’s a freshman QB on the road in his first start. Time to start earning that NIL money.

[adkindo]

Minnesota is controlling this game....

[RedTeamGo!]

Buckeye offense looks like absolute trash

[membengal]

Has Olave caught a ball? Has he even been targeted?

[Roy Tucker]

Minn. is putting their big WR on #29.

[adkindo]

Buckeye offense looks like absolute trash

I am not being a troll....but their defense does not look like an Ohio State defense up front either. I thought Ohio State may struggle a little early in the secondary, but I did not expect to see 'Sota run it straight at them on the ground with this kind of success.

[membengal]

Olave 2 targets 1 catch 7 yards.

That's pretty sub-optimal.

[Roy Tucker]

Stroud looked pretty good the first quarter. But Minnesota got their crowd going and now it’s a battle. Stroud is finding out about a nighttime Big 10 road crowd. Buckeyes need to go back to the quick outs and screens. And the offense bogged down with Teague. Get those other 2 backs in #28 and #32.

[adkindo]

UCF/Boise finally kicking off

[Roy Tucker]

Not a fan of the Minnesota mob behind the TV guys but that’s how Fox rolls.

[Boston Red]

Lol, oops Gabriel.

Based on that first drive, I still suspect UCF will score 50 tonight.

[membengal]

THERE. olave. six.

[RedTeamGo!]

I am not being a troll....but their defense does not look like an Ohio State defense up front either. I thought Ohio State may struggle a little early in the secondary, but I did not expect to see 'Sota run it straight at them on the ground with this kind of success.

It’s not trolling, it’s just watching what’s happening

[Hillsdale87]

I am not being a troll....but their defense does not look like an Ohio State defense up front either. I thought Ohio State may struggle a little early in the secondary, but I did not expect to see 'Sota run it straight at them on the ground with this kind of success.

I'm not too worried about the run defense. Ibrahim ripped off a big run, but they've been pretty solid against the run otherwise. They need to get more QB pressure though. It is what held them back last year


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[Boston Red]

Wow, OSU is shooting themselves in the foot this drive.

[Roy Tucker]

Eeehhhh, pretty weak roughing call.

[kaldaniels]

This ref sure has a poop eating grin on his face when announcing calls vs the Bucks.

[Hillsdale87]

That's a terrible roughing call


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[RedTeamGo!]

Ughhhhhhh and that horrible penalty had to be a kid from my high school haha

[Roy Tucker]

Big 10 game at night on the road. That’s how it goes.

Looks like this might be a shootout.

[RedTeamGo!]

It’s insane how long these commercial breaks are. It’s a weeknight.

[Boston Red]

14-0 Boise now against the fighting Malzahns.

[RedTeamGo!]

This feels like Purdue/Iowa games from a few years ago. And now it’s starting to pour.

[Roy Tucker]

Big defensive series here. Can’t let the Gophers go up 2 scores.

[RedTeamGo!]

Clear hold not called.

[Boston Red]

Minnesota's turn to shoot themselves in the foot.

[Roy Tucker]

Refs trying to even up the penalties.

[Boston Red]

Refs trying to even up the penalties.

Perhaps, and I'm just spitballing here, both teams are committing penalties.

[Roy Tucker]

There we go. Finally hit the home run ball.

[kaldaniels]

How the turntables turn.

[Roy Tucker]

Big strip sack and a lucky bounce.

[RedTeamGo!]

That looked like PI to me by Cavazos

[RedTeamGo!]

Omg did his calf just like snap in half? Ughhhhhhh

[Roy Tucker]

That looked like PI to me by Cavazos

I thought so too.

Hope Ibrahim is ok. He’s really good.