3-25-21 Reds vs White Sox 4:05pm

[Ron Madden]

Reds
1. Jesse Winker (L) LF
2. Nick Senzel (R) CF
3. Tyler Stephenson (R) C
4. Kyle Farmer (R) 3B
5. Jonathan India (R) 2B
6. Mark Payton (L) RF
7. Nicky Delmonico (L) 1B
8. Kyle Holder (L) SS
9. Jose De Leon (R) P

White Sox
1. Leury Garcia (S) 3B
2. Adam Eaton (L) RF
3. Andrew Vaughn (R) 1B
4. Nick Williams (L) LF
5. Yermin Mercedes (R) DH
6. Zack Collins (L) C
7. Nick Madrigal (R) 2B
8. Billy Hamilton (S) CF
9. Danny Mendick (R) SS
SP Dylan Cease (R)

[HammerTime]

@m_sheldon

Schrock was scratched from the #reds lineup and replaced by Delmonico at 1B.

[JaxRed]

Game is supposed to be streamed live somewhere. MLB.TV shows it as MLB.Com. I don't know if that means on MLB.COM web site or Whitesox web site. Or just on MLB.TV

[goreds2]

4:05 pm EDT
1:05 pm MST
Radio: WSAI-1360 (Cincinnati)

[JaxRed]

White Sox just lost Eloy Jiminez for 5 months. Maybe we can trade them Naquin or Payton for some of their farm talent. Or Shogo.

[757690]

This twitter link has a few links to watching the game. I am watching on YouTube and it’s fine.

https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/1375120192167104522?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1375120192167104522%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.southsidesox.com%2F2021% 2F3%2F25%2F22350919%2Fgamethread-cincinnati-reds-at-chicago-white-sox

Here is the YouTube link


https://youtu.be/MkTNHYIb7Tc

[757690]

White Sox just lost Eloy Jiminez for 5 months. Maybe we can trade them Naquin or Payton for some of their farm talent. Or Shogo.

My guess is they will want Aquino

[NebraskaRed]

White Sox announcers said "Winkler" about 10 times

[texasdave]

Delmonico's glove must have a hole in it. How did he miss that toss? LOL.

Payton goes back to the wall in right to haul in out number 3. Delmonico says TYVM.

[JaxRed]

DeLeon solid in 1st recording 4 outs. (only 3 counted)

[NebraskaRed]

India cannot be stopped.

[JaxRed]

Farmer works a walk to lead off 2nd, then India singled. Hamilton robbed Payton of a double and then Delmonico lines out to 2nd.

Holder grounds a single to RF to score a run.

Sox are using DH, Reds are not.

[texasdave]

Farmer with a leadoff walk.
India dumps a single to right. Reds are in bidness.

[JaxRed]

DeLeon starts the inning after lowering his ERA below 6.00. First guy flies out to Winker. Then grounder to 1st for another. K's last guy on pitch outside

[M2]

White Sox announcers said "Winkler" about 10 times

But was he covered in bees?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-08-2015/VkDyFI.gif

[goreds2]

White Sox announcers said "Winkler" about 10 times

Just said it AGAIN.

[NebraskaRed]

Winkler worlks a wallk

[M2]

India cannot be stopped.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c2/47/11/c24711e35bf3567c344d083b214f6147.gif

[JaxRed]

Winkler worlks a wallk

Wow

[NebraskaRed]

Just said it AGAIN.

They also discussed spring training win-loss records, so...

[JaxRed]

Tailor made DP by Senzel

[JaxRed]

Per Nightengale

Michael Lorenzen says he's on track to return quickly, and he's really excited about his curveball. "During my 'pen I threw two curveballs with a little adjustment that DJ told me about. It was, 'oh wow, that’s a completely different pitch.'" #Reds

[NebraskaRed]

Billy Hamilton continues to be impressive defensively but clueless at the plate.

[757690]

Billy Hamilton continues to be impressive defensively but clueless at the plate.

Yeah, when he made that catch of Payton’s ball, I was like “it sure would be nice to have him on the roster.” Then he came to bat and I was like, “nevermind.”

[JaxRed]

De Leon beans a guy and with 2 outs Eaton hit a double down the line. Maybe I'm being picky but it was 100% certain that ball would hit the wall and carom, but Winker acted as if it might go down the line. That allows runner to score from first.

[Bourgeois Zee]

DeLeon with seven Ks in the 4th. (Not that one inning-- that'd be a record.)

He's pitched well, but his control is spotty. Lots of 57 foot sliders or fastballs in the dirt. He'd be a difficult guy to catch, I suspect.

[GoReds]

Do they let the Reds play with gloves to catch the ball or...

Teams are going to find out that just putting the ball in play could be exciting.

[JaxRed]

Pidich comes in to extinguish the flames but instead pours gasoline on the fire instead. Makes De Leon's line look much worse than it was.

[ochoa30]

Senzel looked like he may have hurt himself in that last AB. Could be wrong but he’s been removed from the game. Really hope I’m wrong.

[goreds2]

Senzel looked like he may have hurt himself in that last AB. Could be wrong but he’s been removed from the game. Really hope I’m wrong.

http://www.theveganwifey.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Not-Again-Meme.jpg

[Kc61]

Reds, man, what a spring training. Six wins, worst record and pythag in mlb, being blown out again. I picked 78 wins, I don’t like to rely on ST, but I dunno folks.

[Redsfan6272]

I am hoping the last 7 games of spring training a "focus" on winning starts because looking so bad this spring doesnt bold well for the season.

I will say it again, this team starts out the season like tgis with this bad record heads better roll and Bell better be the first one gone... i know its onloy spring training, but i havent seen a fire let on these players... just saying they play like this the 1st month, .. some accountability better happen

- - - Updated - - -

[JaxRed]

I'm waiting to see Fulmer.....instead we get Warren.

[757690]

Reds, man, what a spring training. Six wins, worst record and pythag in mlb, being blown out again. I picked 78 wins, I don’t like to rely on ST, but I dunno folks.

Take out the stats of the guys who won’t make the team or see very little action at the MLB level and I am guessing the numbers look much better. And the record is beyond meaningless.

[Kc61]

Take out the stats of the guys who won’t make the team or see very little action at the MLB level and I am guessing the numbers look much better. And the record is beyond meaningless.

C’mon, every team uses backups and scrubs in ST. The other teams would also be playing better if they didn’t. The Reds have no relative disadvantage in that way.

They have a 6.17 team ERA, the worst in MLB, have allowed 40 home runs. Worst record, worst pythag. They have won SIX games all ST. Gee whiz.

[Rdirtypirates]

C’mon, every team uses backups and scrubs in ST. The other teams would also be playing better if they didn’t. The Reds have no relative disadvantage in that way.

They have a 6.17 team ERA, the worst in MLB, have allowed 40 home runs. Worst record, worst pythag. They have won SIX games all ST. Gee whiz.

This all means absolutely nothing. It is spring training. I picked 75 wins and am not at all swayed because of spring training. People who have watched this game for years knows spring means nothing. Come on there is plenty to complain about without complaining about spring training stats.

[757690]

C’mon, every team uses backups and scrubs in ST. The other teams would also be playing better if they didn’t. The Reds have no relative disadvantage in that way.

They have a 6.17 team ERA, the worst in MLB, have allowed 40 home runs. Worst record, worst pythag. They have won SIX games all ST. Gee whiz.

Who said they had a disadvantage? I would do that with every team. Some teams numbers might be better because their fringe players are playing better over this meaningless few weeks.

Spring training numbers have never, ever, ever, ever, ever translated into anything meaningful. Like ever.

[JaxRed]

Fullmer looked good his one inning. Really quick delivery

[Kc61]

This all means absolutely nothing. It is spring training. I picked 75 wins and am not at all swayed because of spring training. People who have watched this game for years knows spring means nothing. Come on there is plenty to complain about without complaining about spring training stats.

If the Reds were winning at a .600 clip there’d be euphoria around here.

Whether it means anything is yet to be seen. It’s not a situation where the team is slightly subpar. They are playing like an expansion team in a slump.

[M2]

Reds, man, what a spring training. Six wins, worst record and pythag in mlb, being blown out again. I picked 78 wins, I don’t like to rely on ST, but I dunno folks.

I will never forgive RJ Alaniz for blowing last night's game.

[Kc61]

I will never forgive RJ Alaniz for blowing last night's game.

If you didn’t care you wouldn’t know that he did.

[LeDoux]

Reds, man, what a spring training. Six wins, worst record and pythag in mlb, being blown out again. I picked 78 wins, I don’t like to rely on ST, but I dunno folks.

I am a little worried too. Not so much the record, but the individual performance coupled with all the roster uncertainty. But in the end I am just going to put on my by Reds-tinted glasses anyway.

[MikeS21]

The way I see it is that the guys who are pretty much a sure thing to make the team are the ones putting up solid spring training numbers. It’s the fringe/question marks that are not so impressive, nor are the minor league signs with invites to spring training looking poorly.

[WVRedsFan]

I'll just be glad when Bell doesn't have so many "toys" to play with. Have we really seen much of the starters? No. How about our starting pitching? No. Forget most of the relief prospects. Just want to see a ballgame that's a winning one. So far there have only been 6.

[M2]

If you didn’t care you wouldn’t know that he did.

Or maybe I have a memory that extends all the way back to yesterday.

[Tony Cloninger]

Take out the stats of the guys who won’t make the team or see very little action at the MLB level and I am guessing the numbers look much better. And the record is beyond meaningless.

That is true. But the last what 5 years of bad to horrible starts even with Bell now. Always unprepared or slow to get going. Especially the pitching. It’s what finally got Price fired because it was so bad. 1988 Orioles or 1982 Astros bad.

[mth123]

That is true. But the last what 5 years of bad to horrible starts even with Bell now. Always unprepared or slow to get going. Especially the pitching. It’s what finally got Price fired because it was so bad. 1988 Orioles or 1982 Astros bad.

Exactly. Too much time sorting out the scrubs and not enough time getting the regulars ready to play. I remember when starting pitchers would stretch out to 7 innings on their second to the last start and then cut back to five to save some energy in the last one. They'd be ready to go on day 1. Now 4 innings might be the most they get and relievers would have one 3 innings or so outing to stretch out and then a few back to back days outings. None of that happens anymore. By the last week, the roster should be down to less than 30 guys and the guys who would be on the team should be getting most of the PT. They aren't ready to play because they spend to much PT on guys who have little chance to ever make the roster.

[757690]

Exactly. Too much time sorting out the scrubs and not enough time getting the regulars ready to play. I remember when starting pitchers would stretch out to 7 innings on their second to the last start and then cut back to five to save some energy in the last one. They'd be ready to go on day 1. Now 4 innings might be the most they get and relievers would have one 3 innings or so outing to stretch out and then a few back to back days outings. None of that happens anymore. By the last week, the roster should be down to less than 30 guys and the guys who would be on the team should be getting most of the PT. They aren't ready to play because they spend to much PT on guys who have little chance to ever make the roster.

The way the Reds are doing it this year, and the last few years, is the way they and every other team has been doing it for decades. Go look at the boxscore today, I mean the White Sox barely played any regulars today. Look at the boxscores of other teams now or any year. I have been to dozens and dozens of spring trainings and this is how it’s always been. The only difference is that pitchers did get stretched out longer, but that was because they pitched deeper into games back then. Now they aren’t allowed to go through the lineup a third time, so no need to stretch them out more than 5 innings.

I agree that the Reds have been unprepared since Dusty left, but that has little to do withhold plays when during spring training. Both Bell and Price never cared much for practice or fundamentals. They are of the belief that players already know how to play the game and extra practice and coaching is a waste of time. And that has proven to be false year after year, as the Reds continue to be lousy at fundamentals and never seemed prepared.

[Kc61]

Reds ST record stinks because the ST pitching has been terrible.

Part of it is injuries. Part of it is refusal to spend on better pitchers. Team defense may not have helped.

ST therefore becomes a pitching tryout camp with a 6 ERA.

Will it carry over to the regular season? Who knows. But it’s hard to believe we’ll see a staff nearly as good as last year’s. The Reds’ hitters better be ready to score a bunch of runs.

[757690]

Every year, I get caught up in spring training battles and stats, and then I watch the first series of the regular season, and I immediately remember that a regular season game is nothing like a spring training game and what happened in spring training is meaningless.

In a regular season game, only the best players play, the best pitchers pitch, hitters and pitchers battle in every pitch, every play matters, the manager makes every move with the sole purpose of winning the game, and every player is driven to beat the opponent. None of those things happen in a spring game.

I am positive that all the spring anxiety will dissapate once we start watching games that count.

[Kc61]

In a regular season game, only the best players play, the best pitchers pitch, hitters and pitchers battle in every pitch, every play matters, the manager makes every move with the sole purpose of winning the game, and every player is driven to beat the opponent. None of those things happen in a spring game.

.

In a regular season game, especially managed by David Bell, lots of players play. In the last full MLB regular season, 2019, Reds used 47 different players. 23 position men and 24 pitchers (Lorenzen counted as a pitcher).

Where did all those players come from? Mostly the same group that performed in spring.

Is ST determinative? Certainly not. But it would be good to see performances commensurate with winning baseball.

[757690]

In a regular season game, especially managed by David Bell, lots of players play. In the last full MLB regular season, 2019, Reds used 47 different players. 24 position men and 23 pitchers.

Where did all those players come from? Mostly the same group that performed in spring.

Is ST determinative? Certainly not. But it would be good to see performances commensurate with winning baseball at the big league level.

In 2019, the Reds had 15 position players get 88% of the non pitcher PA’s. 10 pitchers pitched 80% of the team’s innings.

As I said, the best players played the vast majority of the time.

I want players in spring training not focused on stats or winning. I want them focused on getting ready for when the games actually count.

[Kc61]

In 2019, the Reds had 15 position players get 88% of the non pitcher PA’s. 10 pitchers pitched 80% of the team’s innings.

As I said, the best players played the vast majority of the time.

I want players in spring training not focused on stats or winning. I want them focused on getting ready for when the games actually count.

Teams can’t hide their rosters over a 162 game season. Look at 2021. Immediately, on OD, the rotation will have injuries, Gray, Lorenzen, maybe Miley. Immediately guys like Hoffman and DeLeon will have prominent roles. Just look at their spring numbers.

You can’t fluff it off that easily, you can’t deny this performance. Nobody knows the future, seasons have twists and turns. But it’s a showing that raises doubts about this team’s depth, especially pitching beyond the few top guys.

[757690]

Teams can’t hide their rosters over a 162 game season. Look at this season, 2021. On OD the rotation will have injuries, Gray, Lorenzen, maybe Miley. Immediately guys like Hoffman and DeLeon will have prominent roles. Just look at their spring numbers.

You just can’t fluff it off that easily, you can’t deny this performance. It may not hold up, long seasons have twists and turns. But it’s the kind of showing that raises doubts about this team’s depth, especially pitching, beyond the very few top guys.

Teams do need many good players, of course. But in spring training, a high percentage of the PA’s and innings come from players who will not play in the majors that year or ever.

This spring training alone, 36 position players had PA’s for the Reds, and 37 pitchers pitched for them. In less than a month’s worth of game. Many of them from the minor league camp. More importantly, many players who are in camp just trying to get into shape, work on timing, work on pitches, etc..

It is practice, none of it counts, and the players and coaches know that.

As I said at the beginning. If you are worried about depth, then focus on the stats of the players who will play significantly in the majors this season for the Reds. I think you will find that there isn’t much to worry about.

[Kc61]

Teams do need many good players, of course. But in spring training, a high percentage of the PA’s and innings come from players who will not play in the majors that year or ever.

This spring training alone, 36 position players had PA’s for the Reds, and 37 pitchers pitched for them. In less than a month’s worth of game. Many of them from the minor league camp. More importantly, many players who are in camp just trying to get into shape, work on timing, work on pitches, etc..

It is practice, none of it counts, and the players and coaches know that.

As I said at the beginning. If you are worried about depth, then focus on the stats of the players who will play significantly in the majors this season for the Reds. I think you will find that there isn’t much to worry about.

Your own post said in 2019 fifteen Reds position players played most of the time. That’s about double the starting unit. Beyond top ten pitchers, others threw 334 innings. Teams can’t predict with certainty where their needs will be, but most teams must go deep over 162 games. Reds already have a number of injuries affecting OD.

The spring team pitching numbers I’m raising are terrible, not just normal variation, and I’m not sure they are so easily dismissed.