What Do The Reds See in Jeff Hoffman?

[Ohiohaybaler]

I see Hoffman is taking another beating for the team. What do the Reds see in this guy? It certainly isn’t his 6.15 career ERA. He should be used a “organizational depth” at the very most.

[darrylskale]

My question, why did nick krall acquire hoffman and rameriz

[Mitri]

$570,500

[TheBigLebowski]

Sometimes questions just have no answers.

[Dbrown1291]

I see Hoffman is taking another beating for the team. What do the Reds see in this guy? It certainly isn’t his 6.15 career ERA. He should be used a “organizational depth” at the very most.

Neither do I nor do I see what they see in that guy Doolittle

[alexad]

I agree with all of you and add Jose De Leon to this conversation.

I would rather see Green and Ladoldo.


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[DocRed]

You could ask the same question about a lot of the Reds pitchers that are likely to make the opening day roster. DeLeon, Do-Little, Fulmer etc....that doesn't bode well for us this year. Let's hope Sonny only misses 1 start and our hitters rake this year.

[JayBruceFan]

100 mph fastball
Disgusting breaking ball

[mth123]

$570,500

This is the answer. He makes the minimum and was a prospect once upon a time. Brings back memories of Todd Van Poppel, Paul Wilson, Mark Wohlers, Steve Avery,,,.

[Hamilton95]

I see Hoffman is taking another beating for the team. What do the Reds see in this guy? It certainly isn’t his 6.15 career ERA. He should be used a “organizational depth” at the very most.

I liked Robert Stephenson better. Seemed like he was finally starting to get it together as well. Not that it means much these days but he did throw 100 mph as well. Waste of a first round pick as well. Hoffman is garbage.

[RedTeamGo!]

I liked Robert Stephenson better. Seemed like he was finally starting to get it together as well. Not that it means much these days but he did throw 100 mph as well. Waste of a first round pick as well. Hoffman is garbage.

Stephenson may have touched 100 like once but I seem to remember him being more of a 95 mph right down the pipe kind of guy.

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I would rather see Green and Ladoldo.


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Neither are ready.

[Hamilton95]

Stephenson may have touched 100 like once but I seem to remember him being more of a 95 mph right down the pipe kind of guy.

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Neither are ready.

Both are probably better.

[RedTeamGo!]

Both are probably better.

Great. Greene is coming off TJ surgery and clearly didn’t look ready. Hasn’t pitched in a competitive game in like 3 years. Lodolo hasn’t pitched in a competitive game in 2 years, the same year he was drafted. Pitched like 20 innings of pro baseball. Also clearly doesn’t look ready.

[KronoRed]

This is the answer. He makes the minimum and was a prospect once upon a time. Brings back memories of Todd Van Poppel, Paul Wilson, Mark Wohlers, Steve Avery,,,.

All those guys were better then Hoffman

[GAC]

$570,500

If you look at the "common denominator" of the arms mentioned in this discussion, it's that they're all cheap, low risk, and do have potential. So if you're spreading out 4-5M over 5-6 arms, and they hit on one or possibly two, or even get around league average performance out of them, was it worth that risk/investment? And one way an organization can save money, pinch pennies, is the bullpen. It's comes down to either - what can we afford to spend on a reliever, or how much is left over in the budget?

I'll be honest - I hope the days are gone - as least as far as the Reds are concerned - of spending top dollar, multi-year, guaranteed contracts on a closer (i.e a Cordero). But I think the Reds did a good job when it came to handling recent closers (Chapman, Iglesias) while they had them under their control, were ready to cash in, and the decision to "turn the page".

Now as far as what they got in return, that's another discussion. ;)

[mth123]

All those guys were better then Hoffman

That's true. Perhaps I should have said Tim Melville.

[M2]

That's true. Perhaps I should have said Tim Melville.

And don't forget Jeff Austin.

[Dbrown1291]

I agree with all of you and add Jose De Leon to this conversation.

I would rather see Green and Ladoldo.


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My very thought exactly they have very similar era's except for maybe green but he only had one game but they have very similar eras to Sims and Romano and apparently the organization looks highly on them at least ladolo was a first round pick and shows genuine talent which it seems like he's the kind of guy you have to put him up against ball breaking odds for him to develop even further than what he could in the minors against a bunch of grandpas who never made it.

[Alpha Zero]

Hoffman is a former top prospect who possesses a well above average fastball and curveball coming off of a rough start to his career in an environment in Colorado where balls fly and breaking balls just don’t break. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a successful starter in MLB, but I don’t mind the pickup. He also has an option remaining (something Stephenson didn’t have), so he’s a reasonable candidate to be shuttled back and forth as a sixth man in the rotation. Maybe he winds up being trash, but the Reds aren’t relying on him to be one of their top five rotation options.

[Roy Tucker]

Just no soft tossers or pitch to contact. I’ve had enough of that for a lifetime.

[TheBigLebowski]

Just no soft tossers or pitch to contact. I’ve had enough of that for a lifetime.

C’mon. We all want to see a Danny Ray Herrera Revival.

[KronoRed]

Just no soft tossers or pitch to contact. I’ve had enough of that for a lifetime.

Damn batting practice machines are robbing these guys of jobs.

[marcshoe]

Phil Dumatrait. First round pick of the Red Sox. Worst Reds pitcher I'd ever seen (and I've been a fan since '70).

No matter what Hoffman does, he has to be better.

doesn't he?

[757690]

Phil Dumatrait. First round pick of the Red Sox. Worst Reds pitcher I'd ever seen (and I've been a fan since '70).

No matter what Hoffman does, he has to be better.

doesn't he?

15.00 ERA for the Reds in 6 starts. It’s actually hard to be that bad for that many games.

[thatcoolguy_22]

What do the Reds see in Jeff Hoffman?

#2 overall draft pick

Better question:

What do the Reds see with Hoffman, de Leon, and 5 third basemen starting in the field?

Jack Leiter, RHP, Vanderbilt

Based on their ability to develop pitchers through the minor leagues, revenge for the 1999 play in game 22 years in the making.

[Griffey012]

Hoffman is a former top prospect who possesses a well above average fastball and curveball coming off of a rough start to his career in an environment in Colorado where balls fly and breaking balls just don’t break. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a successful starter in MLB, but I don’t mind the pickup. He also has an option remaining (something Stephenson didn’t have), so he’s a reasonable candidate to be shuttled back and forth as a sixth man in the rotation. Maybe he winds up being trash, but the Reds aren’t relying on him to be one of their top five rotation options.

Exactly. The Reds took a chance on a change of scenery guy in hopes they can turn him around at the expense on a player who struggled to put it together and they were ready to cut bait on, nothing wrong with that. The plan was never for Hoffman to be in the early rotation, unless he just wowed in spring training and looked like a new guy. Unfortunately injuries have crept up so he is needed right now since our other younger starting options have missed ample development time due to the pandemic season. If this was mid year, and all else equal with Hoffman, I think we would see someone else getting these starts. Although, I don't think he has an option?

For those clamoring for Lodolo or Greene, just no. Neither one has looked close to ready so why take a chance of ruining their development for a couple poor spot starts?

[JT Redlegs]

He has to be better than Tim Adleman, Keyvius Sampson, Asher Wojciehowski, and all of the other dreck from 2016-2017.

[mth123]

He has to be better than Tim Adleman, Keyvius Sampson, Asher Wojciehowski, and all of the other dreck from 2016-2017.

Why? I think he'll look a lot like those guys. Pitching prospects fail at a high rate. It's why I don't like giving spots to young ones until they kick the door down. Hoffman and Deleon didn't do that. Injuries did. I hope it's a short run for both of them. If one does well from the start, I'd be OK with Lorenzen back in the bullpen and booting Sal Romano off the roster.

[thatcoolguy_22]

He has to be better than Tim Adleman, Keyvius Sampson, Asher Wojciehowski, and all of the other dreck from 2016-2017.

That's a logical fallacy. I have no idea which one, but any logic that states Hoffman must be better than anyone is obviously a fallacy.

[RedTeamGo!]

What do the Reds see in Jeff Hoffman?

#2 overall draft pick

Better question:

What do the Reds see with Hoffman, de Leon, and 5 third basemen starting in the field?

Jack Leiter, RHP, Vanderbilt

Based on their ability to develop pitchers through the minor leagues, revenge for the 1999 play in game 22 years in the making.

Jack Leiter will be drafted this year

[757690]

That's a logical fallacy. I have no idea which one, but any logic that states Hoffman must be better than anyone is obviously a fallacy.

I didn’t read that post as a logical argument, more like wishful thinking.

[Alpha Zero]

Exactly. The Reds took a chance on a change of scenery guy in hopes they can turn him around at the expense on a player who struggled to put it together and they were ready to cut bait on, nothing wrong with that. The plan was never for Hoffman to be in the early rotation, unless he just wowed in spring training and looked like a new guy. Unfortunately injuries have crept up so he is needed right now since our other younger starting options have missed ample development time due to the pandemic season. If this was mid year, and all else equal with Hoffman, I think we would see someone else getting these starts. Although, I don't think he has an option?

For those clamoring for Lodolo or Greene, just no. Neither one has looked close to ready so why take a chance of ruining their development for a couple poor spot starts?

You’re right ... no options. Not sure why I thought he still had one.

[Old school 1983]

Hoffman probably has better stuff the the triumvirate of dumpster dives listed on the last page. Results may vary lol

[thatcoolguy_22]

Jack Leiter will be drafted this year

Reds can't even get revenge right with a 20 year window to plan.

[JT Redlegs]

I didn’t read that post as a logical argument, more like wishful thinking.

Yes, wishful thinking indeed. He seems to have what our pitching coaches like (high velo fastball and good spin rate)... so hopefully they can turn coal into a diamond.

[Ohiohaybaler]

Wow. Career performance from Hoffman? I would like to see more.

[757690]

Right now they see a guy with a 1.80 ERA, 6 K’s and 0 walks in 5 innings pitched.

[HokieRed]

It's only a bare beginning, but if he can throw enough strikes he can stick on a major league roster. I can see what people saw in him, killer changeup that he can locate at least some of the time.

[foster15]

Wow. Career performance from Hoffman? I would like to see more.

Yep, but looking at his career, on the road in case Coors had something to do with it, I'm going to predict not much more.

[HokieRed]

He made me feel a lot better about the Reds front office today. Getting the possible upside he has--which may not turn out at all of course--for one year of Robert Stephenson seems a really smart risk calculation.

[fearofpopvol1]

Can we also just give Derek Johnson the "Bill Self Lifetime Contract" now?

[Griffey012]

First time in his career he didn’t get up a run in a game he started. Kudos to Mr. Hoffman today. I hope it is a sign of things to come. Even if that is just a useful 4/5 type starter.

Haha whoops, he gave up a run today. Nvm.

[JFLegal]

i'm just here to eat crow. feed me.

[Falls City Beer]

I’ve bemoaned the Reds’ inability to pick up cheap second-chance fireballers in recent years. I have no idea how this will turn out but he was clearly worth a second look. Radar gun readings are sort of like height and good handles in basketball. You sure like to see that at the top of the scouting report.

[herbdizzle]

I give props to the early returns for the front office for their angle of older change of scenery types. Hoffman looked really good today. Fulmer & Perez both looked pretty good in their initial outings. It's exciting to see how this plays out.

[cincinnati chili]

i'm just here to eat crow. feed me.

I wouldn't eat it just yet. He did give up some hard contact right at people. Still, you could see his confidence building as the game went on. I'd love to be wrong about this guy too, but he's still a major project for DJ and the organization. They're overhauling everything. Sadak talked a bit about it in the broadcast.

[Tom Servo]

I’ve bemoaned the Reds’ inability to pick up cheap second-chance fireballers in recent years. I have no idea how this will turn out but he was clearly worth a second look. Radar gun readings are sort of like height and good handles in basketball. You sure like to see that at the top of the scouting report.
He was averaging around 93, the more impressive part was his breaking stuff and hitting his spots. Same goes for Fulmer.

[MoneyInTheBank]

i'm just here to eat crow. feed me.

No crow on the menu. Just like all of the reactions after game 1, this was just game 1 for Hoffman. Long way to go

[mth123]

No crow on the menu. Just like all of the reactions after game 1, this was just game 1 for Hoffman. Long way to go

Exactly. 5 Good innings helps the cause and earns him another look, but he's had 230 innings in his career with an ERA over 6. It will take several starts like Sunday to feel comfortable while he's out there. Same is true for guys like Romano, Fulmer, Doolittle, etc. I hope Hoffman does it. This team would look a lot better if Lorenzen could wind up back in the bullpen to help bridge those middle innings.

Deleon tonight. If one of Deleon or Hoffman could stick in the rotation because they are pitching well, it improve my outlook about this team quite a bit.

[Hamilton95]

Exactly. 5 Good innings helps the cause and earns him another look, but he's had 230 innings in his career with an ERA over 6. It will take several starts like Sunday to feel comfortable while he's out there. Same is true for guys like Romano, Fulmer, Doolittle, etc. I hope Hoffman does it. This team would look a lot better if Lorenzen could wind up back in the bullpen to help bridge those middle innings.

Deleon tonight. If one of Deleon or Hoffman could stick in the rotation because they are pitching well, it improve my outlook about this team quite a bit.

Good thing the reds are facing the pirates lineup tonight. I did not like what I saw from De Leon last season.

[757690]

No crow on the menu. Just like all of the reactions after game 1, this was just game 1 for Hoffman. Long way to go

Hoffman is likely only getting two starts, so this start is quite meaningful in the debate.

The argument that many were making was that it was an embarrassment that he was getting even one start, that giving Hoffman even one start revealed how shallow the Reds pitching staff is.

For those posters, crow is the main course.

[sdwagers]

Exactly. 5 Good innings helps the cause and earns him another look, but he's had 230 innings in his career with an ERA over 6. It will take several starts like Sunday to feel comfortable while he's out there. Same is true for guys like Romano, Fulmer, Doolittle, etc. I hope Hoffman does it. This team would look a lot better if Lorenzen could wind up back in the bullpen to help bridge those middle innings.

Deleon tonight. If one of Deleon or Hoffman could stick in the rotation because they are pitching well, it improve my outlook about this team quite a bit.

I want to believe in DeLeon from Boddy's AMA on Reddit. My gut tells me he's destined to the pen.... prove me wrong Jose - PLEASE.

[CaiGuy]

I want to believe in DeLeon from Boddy's AMA on Reddit. My gut tells me he's destined to the pen.... prove me wrong Jose - PLEASE.

To me, it'd be a big win even if "all" he is able to do is pitch at a major league level out of the pen.

[Kc61]

The issue is pitching depth to cover a 162 game season effectively.

It’s a good sign that Hoffman, who is healthy and can pitch multiple innings, did well.

Whether he starts or relieves is less important, every source of effective innings - especially multiple innings - is important.

Hope he holds up over the course of the year, good outing.

[757690]

I posted this in the game thread, but it fits here too:

Clearly, there was a Freaky Friday incident the morning of opening day, when Luis Castillo and Jeff Hoffman were both brushing Jonathan India’s hair, their brushes got tangled together, causing an electric, spiritual moment which resulted in Castillo and Hoffman changing bodies.

It’s the best explanation for what happened this series.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Hoffman is likely only getting two starts, so this start is quite meaningful in the debate.

The argument that many were making was that it was an embarrassment that he was getting even one start, that giving Hoffman even one start revealed how shallow the Reds pitching staff is.

For those posters, crow is the main course.

I agree, in theory. But, let's say next outing, Hoffman goes 6 innings, 1 or 2 earned runs, I see no reason to pull him from the rotation. Lorenzen can be a secondary to Antone as a "one time through the order" high leverage reliever.

[757690]

I agree, in theory. But, let's say next outing, Hoffman goes 6 innings, 1 or 2 earned runs, I see no reason to pull him from the rotation. Lorenzen can be a secondary to Antone as a "one time through the order" high leverage reliever.

And that will prove the Hoffman critics wrong! ;)

[Mitri]

Yeah, if Hoffman pitches well again you leave him alone. Ideally Hoffman, De Leon, Antone and Lorenzen are basically interchangeable 4/5/long relief guys who all get plenty of innings this season.

I like Antone as a primo fireman option in the bullpen, the other three I could care less about whether they start or relieve. My guess is one of De Leon or Hoffman will flame out; if the Reds get a good swingman out of one of those guys (and get Gray's back healed-up) they'll be in good shape.

My main main Cionel can get 3-6 outs too, and Vlad looks like he'll be able to contribute once his suspension is served (though I could see the Reds giving him one last chance to start in Louisville). Lodolo could be in the mix eventually too.

[Roy Tucker]

You never have enough pitching. Ever ever ever. The more live arms you have, the more options you have, the better off you are. Like many have said, it’s a long season. Hopefully, Hoffman can contribute to this staff, starting or relieving and giving them some quality innings.

I am still trying to get used to the fact that the Reds’ pitching coaches really know what they are doing and making it a strength of the team. As a long time fan, I can’t ever remember this happening except in fits and starts.

[RedlegJake]

I am still trying to get used to the fact that the Reds’ pitching coaches really know what they are doing and making it a strength of the team.

This. The Reds have a collection of unproven but live arms. We've seen this movie before BUT the Reds finally have a coaching philosophy and staff that should turn at least a couple of these arms into gold (would ya settle for silver?)

[Griffey012]

This. The Reds have a collection of unproven but live arms. We've seen this movie before BUT the Reds finally have a coaching philosophy and staff that should turn at least a couple of these arms into gold (would ya settle for silver?)

Have we though? Usually the Reds just have a bunch of uninspiring has been arms to work with.

[mth123]

And that will prove the Hoffman critics wrong! ;)

No, but it gets him another look until he turns back into a pumpkin. Maybe he won't. Maybe the altitude change will get his curve to start breaking more. Maybe out of Coors he'll nibble les. A lot could happen. I won't bet on it, but there are definite things that could explain an improvement. For now, it's start to start with he and Deleon and no one start make either a lock to stick. If one or both are generally effective for several starts, we may see one stick with Lorenzen fortifying the pen.

[Falls City Beer]

He was averaging around 93, the more impressive part was his breaking stuff and hitting his spots. Same goes for Fulmer.

Even better. I was simply making the point that the scouting report on the guy was a live fastball. If they can Gully him a killer breaking pitch, great.

[Ohiohaybaler]

No, but it gets him another look until he turns back into a pumpkin. Maybe he won't. Maybe the altitude change will get his curve to start breaking more. Maybe out of Coors he'll nibble les. A lot could happen. I won't bet on it, but there are definite things that could explain an improvement. For now, it's start to start with he and Deleon and no one start make either a lock to stick. If one or both are generally effective for several starts, we may see one stick with Lorenzen fortifying the pen.

So he might have stopped nibbling and trusts his stuff now? That would be great!

[Griffey012]

Even better. I was simply making the point that the scouting report on the guy was a live fastball. If they can Gully him a killer breaking pitch, great.

I thought his curve was his real calling card.

[Mitri]

Hoffman’s calling card was both: high 90s fb and the curve.

Clearly he couldn’t put it together for the Rockies. His breaking stuff looked great yesterday.

[PuffyPig]

I agree with all of you and add Jose De Leon to this conversation.




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Well, for at least one turn through the rotation, this post has not aged well.


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[JFLegal]

curve is definitely his best pitch. it's nasty.

fastball? it's league average. sits at 93 mostly, tops out at 95-96.

regardless, he looked better than i expected. if he can locate his fastball, he can be effective.

[757690]

So far, Hoffman, DeLeon and Miley have a combined 1.68 ERA with 21K’s and 3 walks in 16 IP.

[Griffey012]

4.5 IP per start, 4.70 ERA, 5.90 xERA, and that includes his hot start. The last 3 starts have been ugly, how long do the Reds keep this going?

Who goes next? Santillan, Vlad?

[Moose Herd]

4.5 IP per start, 4.70 ERA, 5.90 xERA, and that includes his hot start. The last 3 starts have been ugly, how long do the Reds keep this going?

Who goes next? Santillan, Vlad?

I’d get Santillan 3-4 starts in AAA and if he looks ok I’d pull that trigger.

[Old school 1983]

4.5 IP per start, 4.70 ERA, 5.90 xERA, and that includes his hot start. The last 3 starts have been ugly, how long do the Reds keep this going?

Who goes next? Santillan, Vlad?

They need to find a way to get Antone in the rotation. Unfortunately he’s the guy that kinda holds the pen together.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Hoffman may not look bad in a multi-inning relief role

1st time through the order: .196/.286/.357/.643
2nd time through the order: .298/.414/.553/.967

I would leave Antone in the bullpen but not mad at anyone who wants him to start

I know this will be unpopular but Goudeau threw 5 scoreless in his first AAA start. Maybe he gets an audition to give Vlad and Santillan more time?

[Kc61]

I’d get Santillan 3-4 starts in AAA and if he looks ok I’d pull that trigger.

Only if Santillan is ready or just about ready. Only if they would promote him in the normal course.

The risk is Reds try to solve their current pitching weakness by rushing high level prospects. Or starting them in the bigs before ready for that role. These young pitchers are key to Reds’ future. Reds must not give in to this temptation.

Not commenting on Santillan or anyone else. Hard for a fan to know specifically without 2020 stats.