College Football Playoff Expansion

[adkindo]

As everyone expects, at some point the college football playoff will expand beyond 4 teams. The conversation exploded again in recent weeks when news was reported that different models are currently being discussed for consideration. Below, I created the "perfect system" but I admit that not everyone agrees with my vision of the perfect FBS College Football Playoff. It may seem radical compared to the current model, but I think we are eventually going to 16 teams....so I think we should put the model in place and leave it alone instead of tweaking it every few years.

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The issue at hand is we need to make the playoffs more inclusive to drive interest among more fan bases, while knowing that the playoff thus far has had a negative impact on bowl games and the relevance of the 2nd half of the season for most teams as the entire discussion has became about the playoffs. It is like trying to catch a double edged sword without getting cut. I think the first item to accept is the bowls as they once were is over. Bowl games being a huge deal is dead and something we will communicate to future generations....similar to how older generations now talk about how the World Series was once more popular than the Super Bowl. The goal should be to drive up interest in as many fan bases as possible each year and resolving as much as possible on the field of play.


Here we go....


- 16 Teams


- Big 12 will need to expand to at least 12. All P5 conferences required to have at least 12 teams and two divisions.


- Each team will play at least 8 conference games and 10 games in total during the regular season. For example, the Big 12 teams would play their 5 divisional opponents, 3 Big 12 cross divisional games and 2 non-conference games. The SEC teams would play their 6 divisional opponents, 2 SEC cross divisional games and 2 non-conference games.


- Five P5 Conferences will produce 10 Divisional Champions, and 10 Automatic Qualifiers.


- Each P5 Conference will play a championship game which will be very important because the 5 winners will be guaranteed a Top 8 Playoff Seed (Home Game Round 1), while the 5 losers will be guaranteed a Bottom 8 Playoff Seed (Away Game Round 1). Yes, there will be some at large teams that did not make their conference championship game, but will get a Top 8 Seed (Home Game Round 1). Some may find this "unfair" but it heightens the interest in the Championship Game where a team will know they are in, but will have consequences for losing.


- The committees responsibility will be to select the 5 at large selections and 1 G6 selection, and rank all 16 teams including the rules for the Ten P5 AQ's. The Top 8 Seeds will include the P5 Conference Championship game winners and 3 teams from the 6 teams selected by the committee, while the Bottom 8 Seeds will include the P5 Conference Championship game losers and 3 teams from the 6 teams selected by the committee.


- The 16 teams will be placed into a standard bracket similar to the NCAA Sweet 16, the first 2 rounds will be played on the higher seeds home team field. Once the final 4 teams are in place, the current format will be continued with a rotation of the major bowls to host the final 3 games.


- Last season, it may have looked something like this "if" only 1 G6 team was included. Bold team is home in Round 1. Also, this example is based on the Final CFP rankings post bowls, playoffs and national championship game, but the final regular season rankings (post conference championships) would be used if implemented.


1. Alabama (AQ - SEC West Champion - SEC Championship Game Winner)
16. Miami** (At Large Selection)

8. Georgia (At Large Selection)
9. Notre Dame (AQ - ACC Coastal Champion - ACC Championship Game Loser)

5. Oklahoma (AQ - Big12 South (?) Champion - Big12 Championship Game Winner)
12. Indiana (At Large Selection)

4. Texas A&M (At Large Selection)
13. Northwestern* (AQ - Big10 West Champion - Big10 Championship Game Loser)

6. Cincinnati (At Large Selection - Highest Ranked G6 Team)
11. Iowa State (AQ - Big12 North (?) Champion - Big12 Championship Game Loser)

3. Ohio State (AQ - Big10 East Champion - Big10 Championship Game Winner)
14. North Carolina (At Large Selection)

7. Oregon (AQ - PAC12 North Champion - PAC12 Championship Game Winner)
10. Florida (AQ - SEC East Champion - SEC Championship Game Loser)

2. Clemson (AQ - ACC Atlantic Champion - ACC Championship Game Winner)
15. USC (AQ - PAC12 South Champion - PAC12 Championship Game Loser)


*Northwestern was adjusted from rankings to avoid Big10 Championship Game rematch. No conference rematches in Round 1.
**If there were no limits on number of G6 teams included, Coastal Carolina would have been included as an At Large team and Miami would not have been included. Personally I would allow unlimited G6 teams, but I can imagine the P5 conferences will try to limit them to the single slot.
*** A National Champion that played in a conference championship game would play a total of 15 total games. A National Champion that did not play in a conference championship game would play a total of 14 games.


This format is optimal because it accomplishes both goals. It would exponentially increase the fan bases that hold interest late into the season as more teams being included significantly will increase the amount of teams that have a chance later into the season. Nearly every P5 fan base will have hope of their team reaching the playoff in the "near future" knowing they are guaranteed to get in by simply winning their conference division, while still including elite teams that happen to share a division with another elite team. Also, most of the teams included are decided on the field, while the human/analytic impact will be limited to the at large bids and ranking the teams...and even the rankings are impacted heavily by the results on the field.

It creates very "interesting" games that are made for television. The Fighting Irish coming to play between the hedges in Athens? The Oregon and Florida offenses lighting up the scoreboard in Eugene? UNC's high powered offense trying to upset the Buckeyes in the Horseshoe? USC having to venture into the South to play in Death Valley? Iowa State having to go on the road against a tough G6 team in Cincy? The U and all their swag traveling to Tuscaloosa? The rising Hoosiers measuring themselves in Sooner Country? Pat Fitzgerald leading his Wildcats to College Station to face Jimbo and 105K 12th Men? I just find them all interesting because they are matchups we never get unless it is in a meaningless bowl game. This would be very different by adding that level of win or go home excitement to each game. Play the first round on a Friday and Saturday, and I think the television ratings would be off the charts.

Thoughts? Good? Bad? I am a genius?

[Boston Red]

There should be one auto G6 but no limit on G6 when you have 16 teams. If there are two G6 teams among the top 16 teams, so be it. Otherwise, while I don't love all of it, it's unquestionably better than our current terrible system, which is better than our former terrible system (BCS), which is better than the previous terrible system (no real championship).

[BuckeyeRed27]

I appreciate the effort, good work. I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it. I just think 16 teams waters down the regular season a bit too much. I see what you’re saying that it makes it more inclusive and holds more fan bases attention longer, which is good. I also liked that you focused a bit on the regular season, which IMO needs more fixing than the post season.

I’m still a fan of 8 teams, with 5 automatic bids and 3 at large bids. I think the automatic bids are a must because it puts intense focus on winning your conference which used to be what college football was all about and doesn’t really matter that much anymore. I also like the idea of the non conference games being like a Big 10/ACC challenge in basketball type thing. The conferences are aligned and the games are just set year to year on a rotating basis. This would be easier if the conference’s were the same size but not totally required.

I’m also very much for the first round of the playoffs being at home stadiums. College football in NFL stadiums just isn’t the same.

[Z-Fly]

I think it's the G5, unless something has changed.

AAC
MAC
Sun Belt
Mountain West
CUSA

[Boston Red]

There's WAC football again starting next year (2022). With such fantastic programs as Abilene Christian, Eastern Kentucky, Dixie State and Tarleton State. Get ready for some WAC-tion!

[Danny Serafini]

That'll be at the FCS level though

[Boston Red]

That'll be at the FCS level though

Nope. Not for long at least.

Sorry, I have this low level college football minutia jumbled up a bit. It's actually the A-Sun that plans to get to FBS quickly. Some of the A-Sun's schools are just going to play in the WAC for a year.

[GAC]

I appreciate the effort, good work. I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it. I just think 16 teams waters down the regular season a bit too much. I see what you’re saying that it makes it more inclusive and holds more fan bases attention longer, which is good. I also liked that you focused a bit on the regular season, which IMO needs more fixing than the post season.

I’m still a fan of 8 teams, with 5 automatic bids and 3 at large bids. I think the automatic bids are a must because it puts intense focus on winning your conference which used to be what college football was all about and doesn’t really matter that much anymore. I also like the idea of the non conference games being like a Big 10/ACC challenge in basketball type thing. The conferences are aligned and the games are just set year to year on a rotating basis. This would be easier if the conference’s were the same size but not totally required.

I’m also very much for the first round of the playoffs being at home stadiums. College football in NFL stadiums just isn’t the same.

I like this. I'm tired of this "we need to be more inclusive". I can understand that from the aspect of giving smaller programs a shot. But other then that, it dilutes the steam too much IMO.

Making the play-offs/post-season should be tough, and still considered special, showcase of the elite that particular year. It's not the NBA(lol).

[Assembly Hall]

Anybody out there miss how it used to be? I loved being tuned in on NY's Day watching meaningful bowl games and scenarios playing out for a mythical national championship.

[adkindo]

Anybody out there miss how it used to be? I loved being tuned in on NY's Day watching meaningful bowl games and scenarios playing out for a mythical national championship.

I recognize that I enjoyed it more in some ways before the BCS, but I do not think it would be popular today. I can recall watching FSU during Deion's last season playing in their bowl game. They were ranked #4 in the country playing #7 Auburn in the Sugar Bowl. FSU won big, and they were talking about if #7 Nebraska could beat #2 Miami in the Orange Bowl and #3 WVU could win a close game against #1 Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl....maybe WVU and FSU would share the national championship!

Looking back, that is just kind of silly. Notre Dame did beat WVU and claimed the National Championship, but it could have been a mess.

[adkindo]

There should be one auto G6 but no limit on G6 when you have 16 teams. If there are two G6 teams among the top 16 teams, so be it. Otherwise, while I don't love all of it, it's unquestionably better than our current terrible system, which is better than our former terrible system (BCS), which is better than the previous terrible system (no real championship).

I agree, but I can see the P5 teams playing hardball in an attempt to ensure they keep more of the money.

[Assembly Hall]

I recognize that I enjoyed it more in some ways before the BCS, but I do not think it would be popular today. I can recall watching FSU during Deion's last season playing in their bowl game. They were ranked #4 in the country playing #7 Auburn in the Sugar Bowl. FSU won big, and they were talking about if #7 Nebraska could beat #2 Miami in the Orange Bowl and #3 WVU could win a close game against #1 Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl....maybe WVU and FSU would share the national championship!

Looking back, that is just kind of silly. Notre Dame did beat WVU and claimed the National Championship, but it could have been a mess.

1977 was a banner year for chaos. Go Irish!

And I am a fan of an 8 team play-off.

[adkindo]

1977 was a banner year for chaos. Go Irish!

And I am a fan of an 8 team play-off.

I think 8 is where we are going next because college football changes happen at a snails pace. I expect once we go to 8, we will quickly realize that all of the problems created by the 4 team format will be exponentially worse. The only focus being on the playoffs, the same 10-12 teams in the discussion every year, and then even the NY6 bowls will become worthless. Personally I would be ok with a 24 team playoff and the Top 8 Seeds getting bye's....and totally doing away with bowl games.

I can recall going to crappy 2nd and 3rd tier bowl games 20 years ago and the stadium was 3/4 full, the atmosphere was great. and the games felt meaningful. In recent years, Tier 3 bowl games are lucky to fill over 1/3 of the stadium, the atmosphere feels like a bad high school game, and nobody really wants to be there. The only reason these games are still alive is because television revenue still makes it profitable. I say just put them out of their misery, and transition into a full playoff. For most teams outside of a handful of elite teams, finishing the season ranked in the Top 25 is a solid season deserving of a reward. If you are a Missouri team that finishes #18, would the players and fanbase prefer going to a 2nd Tier Bowl to play #15 Penn State.....or would they rather travel to Happy Valley and play in a packed stadium for the chance to advance and play Georgia in the 2nd Round of a playoff? Which games would get higher television ratings? It seems clear to me that we are on a path to a full playoff and the bowls are dying....so why wait another decade to get where we are likely going anyway?

[BuckeyeRed27]

What if a second tier post season tournament was created (like the NIT or the Europa League) and that replaced bowl games?

So 8 team national championship tournament and then a 32 team December of Football tournament? Obviously it adds a lot of games potentially which adds safety issues and guys might just opt out, but it seems like a decent solution to balancing making the national championship hard to get into, the regular season meaningful and getting rid of meaningless bowl games but still having a post season.

[Assembly Hall]

Would having a 32 team or even a 16 team "play-off" force Notre Dame to join a conference?

[UKFlounder]

The 32-team tournament would just be the bowl games by a different name - maybe a few extra games in quantity, but not really more meaningful.

I kind of like having so many bowl games spread out over different times, days and weeks - some fun TV at the end of the year.



What if a second tier post season tournament was created (like the NIT or the Europa League) and that replaced bowl games?

So 8 team national championship tournament and then a 32 team December of Football tournament? Obviously it adds a lot of games potentially which adds safety issues and guys might just opt out, but it seems like a decent solution to balancing making the national championship hard to get into, the regular season meaningful and getting rid of meaningless bowl games but still having a post season.

[adkindo]

What if a second tier post season tournament was created (like the NIT or the Europa League) and that replaced bowl games?

So 8 team national championship tournament and then a 32 team December of Football tournament? Obviously it adds a lot of games potentially which adds safety issues and guys might just opt out, but it seems like a decent solution to balancing making the national championship hard to get into, the regular season meaningful and getting rid of meaningless bowl games but still having a post season.

I think it is worthy of a discussion. I just know right now we all gather and are interested in the 2 playoff games...they are exciting even when we complain about it being the same teams. Also, most of us barely watch more than a quarter at most of any other bowl unless our team is playing. In contrast, we are all glued to our screens at home or work for about 16 hours per day that first Thursday and Friday of the NCAA tournament.

As someone that grew up in Southern WV and was a "secondary fan" of Marshall, the D1-AA playoffs were freakin awesome!

[adkindo]

Would having a 32 team or even a 16 team "play-off" force Notre Dame to join a conference?

Maybe, maybe not....just my personal opinion but I am so over being concerned about where Notre Dame fits into the picture. I still do not get why all of college football still feels the need to make special accommodations for them. I am a little bias as I have negative feelings for them because I watched them for years "use" the Big East when they could have joined and truly solidified the conference. It is clear they belong in the Big10 geographically, but I assume they would prefer the ACC.....just join or don't, but I would be done with all of the special accommodations.

[Assembly Hall]

Maybe, maybe not....just my personal opinion but I am so over being concerned about where Notre Dame fits into the picture. I still do not get why all of college football still feels the need to make special accommodations for them. I am a little bias as I have negative feelings for them because I watched them for years "use" the Big East when they could have joined and truly solidified the conference. It is clear they belong in the Big10 geographically, but I assume they would prefer the ACC.....just join or don't, but I would be done with all of the special accommodations.

I highly doubt ND will join the B1G. AND if they do, they will have to get used to losing 3-4 games every year. LOL

[adkindo]

I highly doubt ND will join the B1G. AND if they do, they will have to get used to losing 3-4 games every year. LOL

I think they would go ACC if they had to choose because they would think they could hang at the top of the conference most years. I would not shocked if one day they regret not joining the Big East which would have gave them better geography than the ACC and the best path to a playoff/BCS/etc.

[Assembly Hall]

I think they would go ACC if they had to choose because they would think they could hang at the top of the conference most years. I would not shocked if one day they regret not joining the Big East which would have gave them better geography than the ACC and the best path to a playoff/BCS/etc.

Well if the B1G can kick those Cornholers out...then I would welcome the Irish to the conference. Their happy arsz's can take IU's spot in the East and the Hoosiers will gratefully take Nebraska's spot in the West.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Well if the B1G can kick those Cornholers out...then I would welcome the Irish to the conference. Their happy arsz's can take IU's spot in the East and the Hoosiers will gratefully take Nebraska's spot in the West.

If we are kicking people out Rutgers is absolutely first on that list.

[adkindo]

If we are kicking people out Rutgers is absolutely first on that list.

There is a chance that Nebraska could choose to leave. Doubtful, but at some point they may feel it is best for the program to rejoin the Big12 (or whatever conference the Oklahoma schools, Kansas schools, etc. are part of at the time)....just as kind of a reset. Rutgers would fight to the death to remain in the Big10. Also, there are some positive signs from Rutgers....there is a chance they could climb up to the middle of the conference in the near future. Their recruiting is clearly on the uptick.

[BuckeyeRed27]

There is a chance that Nebraska could choose to leave. Doubtful, but at some point they may feel it is best for the program to rejoin the Big12 (or whatever conference the Oklahoma schools, Kansas schools, etc. are part of at the time)....just as kind of a reset. Rutgers would fight to the death to remain in the Big10. Also, there are some positive signs from Rutgers....there is a chance they could climb up to the middle of the conference in the near future. Their recruiting is clearly on the uptick.

If there was a big realignment or some attempt to make all conferences 16 teams or something, I could see Nebraska leaving. But they aren’t just going to leave the big ten for the big 12.

Schiano is recruiting better, but the middle of the conference is the absolute ceiling for them.

[adkindo]

If there was a big realignment or some attempt to make all conferences 16 teams or something, I could see Nebraska leaving. But they aren’t just going to leave the big ten for the big 12.

Schiano is recruiting better, but the middle of the conference is the absolute ceiling for them.

I assume you claim that because of the money? I agree it is doubtful, but if they continue to not be competitive and feel the move would allow them to return to a higher level of football (winning more)....for whatever reasons, they are a school that I could see taking the financial hit if not massive. They have one of the best and loyal fan bases in college football, and I get the feeling they are not fans of the Big10 (mostly because they are not winning). Have to keep in mind, for years Nebraska lived off of recruiting in Texas and Big12 country...and it has been more difficult to grab the best in that region when they are no longer playing in that region.

Fwiw, I think you and I perceive the quality of the Big10 a little different.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I assume you claim that because of the money? I agree it is doubtful, but if they continue to not be competitive and feel the move would allow them to return to a higher level of football (winning more)....for whatever reasons, they are a school that I could see taking the financial hit if not massive. They have one of the best and loyal fan bases in college football, and I get the feeling they are not fans of the Big10 (mostly because they are not winning). Have to keep in mind, for years Nebraska lived off of recruiting in Texas and Big12 country...and it has been more difficult to grab the best in that region when they are no longer playing in that region.

Fwiw, I think you and I perceive the quality of the Big10 a little different.

Mostly money. The revenue of the Big 10 and Big 12 are massively different, like nearly double. I’m sure they want to win more, but I’m not sure the conference move has much if anything to do with it. The recruiting argument probably has some merit, but they’ve always had to recruit nationally and I really don’t like playing a couple times in Texas was as big of a deal as some make it out to be. If it was then schedule non conference games in Texas, there’s like 16 schools, I’m sure they’ll take your call. I do wish they were better though. I went to the OSU game there a couple years ago and you can really see how that would be a terrifying place to play if the team was good.

I’m not sure quality really matters. Quality in college football ebbs and flows and it’s pretty hard to say the Big 12 is any better than the Big 10. I know you’re a WVU guy, but I honestly don’t care about college conference superiority conversations. They are kinda boring and are a weird side effect of the BCS era.

[Chip R]

I like this. I'm tired of this "we need to be more inclusive". I can understand that from the aspect of giving smaller programs a shot. But other then that, it dilutes the steam too much IMO.

Making the play-offs/post-season should be tough, and still considered special, showcase of the elite that particular year. It's not the NBA(lol).

A lot of people will claim that. They say they don't want the playoffs to be diluted. But that's the beauty of the basketball tournament. People are watching that 1st round to see the underdog schools knock off the favorites. A lot of people will struggle to remember who won the championship in such and such a year but they remember the upsets. And I think people are getting turned off watching Alabama, Ohio State and Clemson in the playoffs every season. And maybe after a bigger playoff they will still be there. But a lesser team could sneak through and become the sentimental favorite.

[cumberlandreds]

A lot of people will claim that. They say they don't want the playoffs to be diluted. But that's the beauty of the basketball tournament. People are watching that 1st round to see the underdog schools knock off the favorites. A lot of people will struggle to remember who won the championship in such and such a year but they remember the upsets. And I think people are getting turned off watching Alabama, Ohio State and Clemson in the playoffs every season. And maybe after a bigger playoff they will still be there. But a lesser team could sneak through and become the sentimental favorite.

I'm afraid those types of upsets would be far less common by just the nature of football. It takes a lot more top level players to be competitive with a top echelon program like Bama and Ohio State. In basketball you can have one big star like Larry Bird and upset just about anyone. IMO you would see a lot more 56-0 blowouts than Texas State beating Alabama in a mind blowing upset.

[Chip R]

I'm afraid those types of upsets would be far less common by just the nature of football. It takes a lot more top level players to be competitive with a top echelon program like Bama and Ohio State. In basketball you can have one big star like Larry Bird and upset just about anyone. IMO you would see a lot more 56-0 blowouts than Texas State beating Alabama in a mind blowing upset.

The odds will be less for sure since the football tournament will be anywhere from a quarter to an eighth smaller than the basketball tournament. Fewer teams mean fewer upsets. So when the upsets actually happen, they will be more special.

[cumberlandreds]

The odds will be less for sure since the football tournament will be anywhere from a quarter to an eighth smaller than the basketball tournament. Fewer teams mean fewer upsets. So when the upsets actually happen, they will be more special.

No doubt about that. It just won't happen every year like in the basketball tournament. I would hope people wouldn't expect that.

[Chip R]

No doubt about that. It just won't happen every year like in the basketball tournament. I would hope people wouldn't expect that.

Right. But it's not just the upsets happening, it's the possibility of one happening.

Another thing to consider is if the playoffs expand, there's a possibility of on-campus games. I know northern teams have wanted the southern teams to play in their stadiums since all the bowl games are at neutral sites which are warm weather sites. If you're an tOSU fan, wouldn't you like to see someone like LSU or Miami come to Columbus in late November/early December?

[Assembly Hall]

I'm afraid those types of upsets would be far less common by just the nature of football. It takes a lot more top level players to be competitive with a top echelon program like Bama and Ohio State. In basketball you can have one big star like Larry Bird and upset just about anyone. IMO you would see a lot more 56-0 blowouts than Texas State beating Alabama in a mind blowing upset.

First off...Indiana St. had a future NBA player next to Bird. Carl Nicks was his name in case anyone forgot. LOL

As far as the miss-matches go, I still think there would be upsets. I mean 'Bama, tOSU, and Clemson do lose games to conference foes in the regular season.

[Assembly Hall]

Right. But it's not just the upsets happening, it's the possibility of one happening.

Another thing to consider is if the playoffs expand, there's a possibility of on-campus games. I know northern teams have wanted the southern teams to play in their stadiums since all the bowl games are at neutral sites which are warm weather sites. If you're an tOSU fan, wouldn't you like to see someone like LSU or Miami come to Columbus in late November/early December?

Absolutely...hell Purdue beat tOSU a couple years back.

As far as the Northern site possibility, are all the B1G stadiums completely set up to host a game in cold weather. I know it won't be the dead of winter but wonder about field conditions and such(restrooms facilities). But yeah, playing north of the Mason-Dixon line appeals to me.

[Thisyear]

Looking at a 12 team expansion.
https://www.si.com/college/2021/06/10/college-football-playoff-12-team-expansion-recommended

[adkindo]

I am good with the new proposal, but I still believe it is just another step to an even larger playoff at some point. The new proposal will basically take the bowl games not associated with the playoff from life support to a certain death (as far as interest). The best parts about the new proposal...

- Notre Dame will be at a disadvantage unless they join a conference being unable to get a bye.
- Fairness....Top 6 conference champions which takes down a wall for Group of 5 teams since more than 1 can theoretically get in by winning their conference.
- Maintains an advantage for the elite teams each year with the bye week.....or does it? Sometimes rest is good, other times rust is bad.
- WVU and every other "very good" program now has a reasonable chance to make the playoffs during the better years.

I am really hoping it does not end up being the SEC West and the other best 5 or 6 teams each year.

[KronoRed]

Last year was weird, so if this had existed in 2019 these are the teams that would be in

Top 5 Conference Champs
LSU 13-0
Ohio State 13-0
Clemson 13-0
Oklahoma 12-1
Oregon 11-2
Memphis 12-1

At Large bids
Georgie 11-2
Baylor 11-2
Wisconsin 10-3
Florida 10-2
Penn St 10-2
Utah 11-2

This would have ND on the outside with a 10-2 record despite being ranked in front of Memphis, guarantee a final plan would have special rules in place for them and the other independents.

[adkindo]

Last year was weird, so if this had existed in 2019 these are the teams that would be in

Top 5 Conference Champs
LSU 13-0
Ohio State 13-0
Clemson 13-0
Oklahoma 12-1
Oregon 11-2
Memphis 12-1

At Large bids
Georgie 11-2
Baylor 11-2
Wisconsin 10-3
Florida 10-2
Penn St 10-2
Utah 11-2

This would have ND on the outside with a 10-2 record despite being ranked in front of Memphis, guarantee a final plan would have special rules in place for them and the other independents.

Who would demand the special rules? ND AD was one of the four parties that wrote the current proposal, and I do not think BYU has that kind of pull.

[Rojo Rijo]

I’m all for this and knew it was only a matter of time. The CFP is a ratings monster but has also significantly diminished the interest of all the other bowls. I thought they would first go to 6 or 8 so I am surprised by the jump to 12 but that just tells me they know they could take these 8 other teams and make a lot more $ with them in a playoff format versus some bowl game only those teams non casual fans will care about. I’m a die hard Florida Gator but even I’ve lost most interest in our bowl games.

Then you have the entire issue of players opting out of their bowl games. I’m sure that helped move the needle significantly as well.

I read an article on ESPN where an SEC AD said the SEC pushed for the 12 team model.

[Rojo Rijo]

Last year was weird, so if this had existed in 2019 these are the teams that would be in

Top 5 Conference Champs
LSU 13-0
Ohio State 13-0
Clemson 13-0
Oklahoma 12-1
Oregon 11-2
Memphis 12-1

At Large bids
Georgie 11-2
Baylor 11-2
Wisconsin 10-3
Florida 10-2
Penn St 10-2
Utah 11-2

This would have ND on the outside with a 10-2 record despite being ranked in front of Memphis, guarantee a final plan would have special rules in place for them and the other independents.

CBS posted an article showing how the 12 team format wouldve looked every year since the CFP started

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-playoff-expansion-how-a-12-team-field-would-have-looked-in-each-of-last-seven-seasons/

Notre Dame wouldve been 5th last year. Oregon would have been left out as both Cincinnati and Coastal Carolina were ranked higher and won their conference championships - along with the top 4 of Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma.

[adkindo]

An important note, one reason ND signed off on the current model was because the 4 teams that are awarded a bye will have to play an additional game (Conference Championship). Notre Dame can only join the ACC if they choose to join a conference before 2036.....I think they will evaluate their position after a few years under the new format.

[Slyder]

Who would demand the special rules? ND AD was one of the four parties that wrote the current proposal, and I do not think BYU has that kind of pull.

The TV Networks would want those special stips cause ND the brand by itself would bring more eyeballs than most schools (or so that's popular thought process). I'm just waiting for ESPN to get their hands on this and try and make a case the SEC is a meat grinder and 6 teams from the SEC would deserve to get in over everyone else.

[Reds Freak]

I’m all for this and knew it was only a matter of time. The CFP is a ratings monster but has also significantly diminished the interest of all the other bowls. I thought they would first go to 6 or 8 so I am surprised by the jump to 12 but that just tells me they know they could take these 8 other teams and make a lot more $ with them in a playoff format versus some bowl game only those teams non casual fans will care about. I’m a die hard Florida Gator but even I’ve lost most interest in our bowl games.

Then you have the entire issue of players opting out of their bowl games. I’m sure that helped move the needle significantly as well.

I read an article on ESPN where an SEC AD said the SEC pushed for the 12 team model.

Actually, the CFP TV ratings have been falling fast. Last year was the least watched championship game since 1999, in part because it's the same teams every year. I'm guessing the falling ratings are the major driver in the renewed expansion interest.

TV ratings source - https://www.buckeyextra.com/story/football/2021/01/12/college-football-playoff-title-game-tv-ratings-fall-record-low/6649726002/

[Rojo Rijo]

Actually, the CFP TV ratings have been falling fast. Last year was the least watched championship game since 1999, in part because it's the same teams every year. I'm guessing the falling ratings are the major driver in the renewed expansion interest.

TV ratings source - https://www.buckeyextra.com/story/football/2021/01/12/college-football-playoff-title-game-tv-ratings-fall-record-low/6649726002/

I could see this as well. I'd venture to say 95+% of the country has developed Alabama-Clemson-sometimes Ohio State fatigue at this point.

While they did go from their constant mid-20s to 19 the semis were along the lines of normal (except for the inaugural year and the 4th year).

[bucksfan2]

I am ok with this proposal. I would have liked to see them go best 8 teams regardless. I don't think a Group of 5 should get an auto bid because I just don't think they are good enough.....

The one positive of increasing the field is you have the chance to get a championship caliber team in the mix who had a slip up or was coming on after a slow start. OSU and OU have all had teams in the past who were capable of causing some serious damage but were left out because they lost a game they just couldn't or had a slow start.

In most seasons there aren't 4 championship level teams, the 4th seed in many years has been destroyed in the first game. I do think this gives teams like PSU, Florida, Michigan a chance to stay relevant when they just can't seem to get over the hump.

The idea of a game being played in Happy Valley between PSU and Florida in late Dec sounds awesome.

One final change, play the title game on a Sat night.

[RiverRat13]

The reason for 12 teams is to get as many SEC teams in as possible. The B1G and Pac 12 were not a part of developing this. They need to play hardball to make sure no more than two teams per conference get in. College football is already in danger of becoming a regional sport. The goal for expanding the playoffs should be to expand the game nationally, not for Greg Sankey to get what he wants.

[Rojo Rijo]

The reason for 12 teams is to get as many SEC teams in as possible. The B1G and Pac 12 were not a part of developing this. They need to play hardball to make sure no more than two teams per conference get in. College football is already in danger of becoming a regional sport. The goal for expanding the playoffs should be to expand the game nationally, not for Greg Sankey to get what he wants.

No chance. The SEC dominates recruiting and the NFL draft every year. It's undoubtedly where a majority of the best players in the game play. No way you water down the product by capping your strongest resource. Even if they did try and limit conferences this way, 2 teams is a joke and I can guarantee you the B1G would not agree to it either.

[Rojo Rijo]

I am ok with this proposal. I would have liked to see them go best 8 teams regardless. I don't think a Group of 5 should get an auto bid because I just don't think they are good enough.....

The one positive of increasing the field is you have the chance to get a championship caliber team in the mix who had a slip up or was coming on after a slow start. OSU and OU have all had teams in the past who were capable of causing some serious damage but were left out because they lost a game they just couldn't or had a slow start.

In most seasons there aren't 4 championship level teams, the 4th seed in many years has been destroyed in the first game. I do think this gives teams like PSU, Florida, Michigan a chance to stay relevant when they just can't seem to get over the hump.

The idea of a game being played in Happy Valley between PSU and Florida in late Dec sounds awesome.

One final change, play the title game on a Sat night.

Agree 100%. As a Florida fan it was painful to swallow the LSU meltdown, especially when if your reckless DB doesnt throw an opponents cleat 20 yards you still mighty actually pull out the W, despite your coach sitting your best offensive weapon since Percy Harvin. Then you go blow for blow with Alabama and for the first time in 12 years Saban actually seems to have some resemblance of stress about playing your team. A late season stumble loss followed by coming up short to one of the juggernauts would typically be a nail in the coffin 99/100 times. With the new format 2 losses will become manageable and more weight can be carried by a teams stronger performances. I also agree that I was pulling for 8, thinking that would be luck and it might only be 6 at first. I never wouldve thought 12 but I like that it gives the top 4 advantage of more rest/time to get healthy.

[Boston Red]

As long as the other four power conferences are guaranteed one spot and the Group of 5 or Group of 6 or whatever they are going to be gets 1, I don't care if the SEC takes the other 6 spots if they have the next 6 best teams. As long as every program has a clear path to winning a national championship (just as they do in every other sport the NCAA runs), I'll be happy.

[Reds Freak]

One final change, play the title game on a Sat night.

100% agree with this. The Monday night championship games suck. Feels like an afterthought. I usually forget the game is on. While we're at it, let's move the basketball Final Four to Thursday-Saturday.

[Danny Serafini]

At this point they may as well just go to 16, give all 10 conferences an auto bid and you still have 6 at large. The top four lose their bye but gain a money making game at home against an opponent they should handle, I'm sure they'd be fine with that.

[bucksfan2]

At this point they may as well just go to 16, give all 10 conferences an auto bid and you still have 6 at large. The top four lose their bye but gain a money making game at home against an opponent they should handle, I'm sure they'd be fine with that.

No, no, no. College Football isn't college basketball. I want the best teams playing, not a team that gets an auto bid to get slaughtered by OSU or Bama. As good of a story as someone like Coastal Carolina was I just don't think they a chance to do anything when they play a playoff team.

One thing I would like to see is uniformity in schedule. Require each P5 school to play the same amount of conference games and make sure they play another P5 school. I would also like to see a G6 school be required to play at least one P5 school to be eligible, but I understand the complexity of that.

The narrative behind a G6 school making a run is fun, I just don't think it plays out in reality. I want to see the best play the best. Two years ago I saw a very good UC team get embarrassed by a championship caliber OSU team. I don't want to see that in the playoff. Sure give a G6 school one of the twelve spots, but I want nothing to do with five more teams getting auto bids who don't stand a chance.

[Boston Red]

The narrative behind a G6 school making a run is fun, I just don't think it plays out in reality.

There were a number of Boise State teams that would have been a threat to get to the semifinals and would not have been a big underdog even in the semis. Probably not a huge threat to win it all, but then again if you have a 12 team format, at least 7 of those teams aren't going to be a threat to win it all even if you restrict it to just P5 teams.

[Roy Tucker]

Are they going to integrate these games into existing bowls or is it a completely separately hosted thing?

[bucksfan2]

There were a number of Boise State teams that would have been a threat to get to the semifinals and would not have been a big underdog even in the semis. Probably not a huge threat to win it all, but then again if you have a 12 team format, at least 7 of those teams aren't going to be a threat to win it all even if you restrict it to just P5 teams.

It would have been an interesting case study. I do think those BSU teams are looked upon fondly by most college fans. While I also don't think the apathy of P5 schools was where it is today, but those BSU teams had an advantage in that game meant something to them whereas Oklahoma (or whoever else they played) wasn't exactly thrilled to be there. I think the BCS started diminishing the bowl games and the playoffs killed them.

I know it doesn't mean everything but I went and checked the 247 talent composite, Houston was the most talented G6 team checking in at 55. Right behind Vandy and two sports ahead of Iowa St. Now with the right coach (see Iowa St) these teams can be competitive, but the pure talent on the field doesn't match up. Ultimately the grind of a P5 schedule is far more taxing than what a G6 team will play. For the quality of a game I will always skew to a P5 school getting the benefit of the doubt.

I will admit that every once in a while a G6 school has a team and more importantly schedule that could warrant them consideration as a top 5ish type program. This upcoming season for UC could validate themselves as a legit program. If UC runs the table this season, the deserve to be among one of the top 4 programs in the country.

[Boston Red]

It would have been an interesting case study. I do think those BSU teams are looked upon fondly by most college fans. While I also don't think the apathy of P5 schools was where it is today, but those BSU teams had an advantage in that game meant something to them whereas Oklahoma (or whoever else they played) wasn't exactly thrilled to be there.
.

I'm not talking about that Boise State team. I'm talking about the ones that beat Georgia and Virginia Tech in what were basically road games in season opening events. I don't think there was much apathy involved there. Certainly not in the VaTech one, because they had already watched Boise State whip Georgia in a similar event the prior season. And Boise State was ranked #3 going into the game.

[bucksfan2]

I'm not talking about that Boise State team. I'm talking about the ones that beat Georgia and Virginia Tech in what were basically road games in season opening events. I don't think there was much apathy involved there. Certainly not in the VaTech one, because they had already watched Boise State whip Georgia in a similar event the prior season. And Boise State was ranked #3 going into the game.

The 2011 Georgia team finished the season unranked and the 2010 VaTech team ended up the season ranked 25th.

Here is my question for the good BSU teams of that era. How successful would they have been playing a P5 schedule. That 2011 team finished the season playing zero teams that were ranked at the end of the year.

[Boston Red]

The 2010 VaTech team went undefeated through the ACC. The 2011 Georgia team won 10 games in a row and won the SEC east. The 2009 Boise State team beat #3 TCU in the Fiesta Bowl. They started the season by beating Oregon...who won the Pac 12.

It's kind of silly to think those three Boise State teams didn't belong in a 12 team playoff.

[Rojo Rijo]

I won't argue that there have been non P5 teams that probably couldve competed in a 12 team playoff format in years past but the problem is thats not always the case and watching a Coastal Carolina-type team get thrashed is probably the price that will have to be paid for the likes of those past Boise State teams and more recent UCF teams to get their shots.

[Boston Red]

I won't argue that there have been non P5 teams that probably couldve competed in a 12 team playoff format in years past but the problem is thats not always the case and watching a Coastal Carolina-type team get thrashed is probably the price that will have to be paid for the likes of those past Boise State teams and more recent UCF teams to get their shots.

Agree, but it's worth it IMO. I mean, has anyone really been upset about Kentucky beating Mt. St. Mary by 50 in the NCAA basketball tournament? If the playoff is 12 teams, you're not knocking out a real contender from a major conference anyway. If you're in the Big XII and not one of the 11 best teams, quit crying. You had ample opportunity to make your case.

[Phoenix2]

Its a shame how the CFP worked out. I don't think they foresaw that it would be the overriding, overarching focus of everything. They hoped teams and fans would care about winning conferences, but all attention turned to who will be the 4 teams. Not everyone is in contention for a national title. 4 teams? Maybe Bama and Clemson and another team. Oftentimes the number 4 team shouldn't even be there. So now we are going to watch all the debate and grief about what #13 team gets unfairly left out. Yawn.

[Boston Red]

So now we are going to watch all the debate and grief about what #13 team gets unfairly left out. Yawn.

I agree, but the stakes are so much lower at that point. It's like the complaining about the bubble NCAA Tournament teams. Yeah, some teams get screwed, but who really cares, because ALL of the truly deserving teams get in. Same thing here. Someone probably gets "screwed", but that wasn't a contender anyway. #5 and #6 might actually be contenders.

[adkindo]

Are they going to integrate these games into existing bowls or is it a completely separately hosted thing?

They are going to play Round 1 on higher seed home field, and then incorporate the bowls into the quarterfinals and semifinals. Then as it is now, the National Championship game will be a neutral stand alone game.

[adkindo]

I will say the one element that I think could be a weakness in the current proposal (that I tried to account for in my plan on page 1) is the impact on the loser of the conference championship game. Is there a scenario where for example....Alabama wins the SEC West and Florida wins the SEC East over Georgia by a tiebreaker. Then Alabama hammers Florida in the conference championship game and the committee punishes Florida in the rankings to where they do not get in while Georgia is ranked high enough to get an at large bid. Something just does not sit well with me in that type of situation because in the example, Florida is punished for playing in the conference championship game while Georgia is rewarded for missing the conference championship game.

[bucksfan2]

The 2010 VaTech team went undefeated through the ACC. The 2011 Georgia team won 10 games in a row and won the SEC east. The 2009 Boise State team beat #3 TCU in the Fiesta Bowl. They started the season by beating Oregon...who won the Pac 12.

It's kind of silly to think those three Boise State teams didn't belong in a 12 team playoff.

Boise would have gotten a shot in a 12 team playoff. UCF would have gotten a shot a few years ago when they "claimed" a National Championship. However, I don't think they would have been able to do much, nor do I think a spot should be saved for the best G5 school who may be outside the top 15 or so.

Give me the best 12 teams and have at it. If Boise is good enough, they will get their chance.