NCAA Basketball 2021-2022: Student Athlete Free Agency Extravaganza!

[WVRed]

University Six back in the news:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31467518/former-louisville-basketball-assistant-coach-dino-gaudio-faces-federal-charge-alleged-attempt-extort-program

[cumberlandreds]

You wonder how many ex-assistants have gotten away with what Gaudio tried at other schools? I would say a few have got a nice bonus for staying quiet.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Man, that's such a clever (if underhanded) way of making cash.

Who would the university tell?

[UKFlounder]

Many universities self-report minor violations each year, so I doubt many coaches try to blackmail their schools. My understanding was that these were minor things Gaucho knew of.

If there are more serious situations, maybe it does hapoen

[WVRed]

Many universities self-report minor violations each year, so I doubt many coaches try to blackmail their schools. My understanding was that these were minor things Gaucho knew of.

If there are more serious situations, maybe it does hapoen

Either way it’s not a good look for a school that is awaiting sanctions while already on probation.

When Pat Forde who is one of Louisville’s biggest homers floats the death penalty (which I doubt we will ever see again), it’s pretty serious.

[UKFlounder]

Oh, it’s terrible for them but I don’t think Gaudio had as much leverage as he thought. He looks like a fool too. In just this instance, he looks worse than the school, though this just adds to their reputation



Either way it’s not a good look for a school that is awaiting sanctions while already on probation.

When Pat Forde who is one of Louisville’s biggest homers floats the death penalty (which I doubt we will ever see again), it’s pretty serious.

[adkindo]

Either way it’s not a good look for a school that is awaiting sanctions while already on probation.

When Pat Forde who is one of Louisville’s biggest homers floats the death penalty (which I doubt we will ever see again), it’s pretty serious.

You lost me at Pat Forde. Is he still trying to cancel college athletic seasons?

[Assembly Hall]

You lost me at Pat Forde. Is he still trying to cancel college athletic seasons?


https://www.si.com/college/2021/05/19/louisville-extortion-mens-basketball-dino-gaudio-program-ncaa-induced-coma

[adkindo]

https://www.si.com/college/2021/05/19/louisville-extortion-mens-basketball-dino-gaudio-program-ncaa-induced-coma

https://media.tenor.com/images/709257c4e0c6d113d67a17aa088f43cd/tenor.gif

[Boston Red]

Someone thinks Forde is a Louisville homer?!? Forde loved him some Rick Pitino, but that's really it. He loved him when he was at Kentucky, too.

[Assembly Hall]

IU's Jerome Hunter to Xavier.

[Boston Red]

IU's Jerome Hunter to Xavier.

Is he good?

[Assembly Hall]

Is he good?

He was coming out of HS...https://247sports.com/Recruitment/Jerome-Hunter-86280/RecruitInterests/

[dubc47834]

Is he good?

He'll be a solid contributor at Xavier I think.

[Assembly Hall]

He'll be a solid contributor at Xavier I think.

I agree, as long as he is healthy and has no off-court issues.

[WVRed]

Coach Mike Shashefsky to retire at the end of the season:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/legendary-duke-basketball-coach-mike-krzyzewski-to-retire-after-2021-22-season-per-report/

And Duke will move from being a top 10 team to top 3 based on this announcement.

[adkindo]

Coach Mike Shashefsky to retire at the end of the season:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/legendary-duke-basketball-coach-mike-krzyzewski-to-retire-after-2021-22-season-per-report/

And Duke will move from being a top 10 team to top 3 based on this announcement.

Jon Scheyer is a year away from having one of the best CBB jobs in the country in one of the worst situations.

I would guess over the next couple years there will be many of the "old guard" (Williams, Huggins....and maybe even Cal) move on from the bench. As NIL and other changes take effect, I think many older coaches will decide it is not worth it to remain on the sideline. Many of them know tampering is about to explode, and the traditional relationships among coaches will be tested.

[bucksfan2]

Jon Scheyer is a year away from having one of the best CBB jobs in the country in one of the worst situations.

I would guess over the next couple years there will be many of the "old guard" (Williams, Huggins....and maybe even Cal) move on from the bench. As NIL and other changes take effect, I think many older coaches will decide it is not worth it to remain on the sideline. Many of them know tampering is about to explode, and the traditional relationships among coaches will be tested.

Duke had the pick of pretty much every single basketball coach in the game and went with Scheyer, an interesting choice.

I do think a lot of old time coaches will hang it up over the next few years. I don't think its because of NIL, I think it will be because of the "free transfer" more than anything else. Building a team and keeping a team together will be much tougher than ever before.

I love the game of college basketball but I fear it will become unrecognizable over the next five to ten years.

[RiverRat13]

Duke had the pick of pretty much every single basketball coach in the game and went with Scheyer, an interesting choice.

They would have had their choice of coaches had K not insisted on his farewell tour. No current head coach of any value was going to agree to come be K's assistant for this season.

[IslandRed]

They would have had their choice of coaches had K not insisted on his farewell tour. No current head coach of any value was going to agree to come be K's assistant for this season.

I think he probably meant to say "could have had the pick." They didn't have to name a head coach in waiting now, they could have waited until after the season, and then everyone's on the table.

[bucksfan2]

They would have had their choice of coaches had K not insisted on his farewell tour. No current head coach of any value was going to agree to come be K's assistant for this season.

Duke is in an interesting spot right now. For all intents and purposes Coach K is Duke basketball. Its very rare that you find a coach and school so intertwined like this. I wonder if you go back and look at previous schools in similar situations who bowed down to the leaving coach and allowed him to pick his successor to see how that all worked out. I can think of Dean Smith and Guthridge but really can't think of may other situations. More often than not you are far more successful going outside the program than hiring from within.

I don't think it happens, but there is the potential that Duke loses a lot of prestige if Scheyer flames out as a coach.

[cumberlandreds]

Sheyer has his work cut out for him. Very few coaches following legends succeed. UCLA and Indiana have gone through a bunch of coaches and never really got back to that level consistently. It took a couple of coaches to go through UNC before Williams got the ship righted. Joe B. Hall probably followed a legend better than anyone at Kentucky. He kept Kentucky more than relevant and brought them back up notch from where Rupp left them. But he seems to be an exception. It's going to be interesting to see how these successors do in the coming years with people like Boeheim,Huggins and probably Calipari retiring in the near future.

[WVRed]

Duke had the pick of pretty much every single basketball coach in the game and went with Scheyer, an interesting choice.

I do think a lot of old time coaches will hang it up over the next few years. I don't think its because of NIL, I think it will be because of the "free transfer" more than anything else. Building a team and keeping a team together will be much tougher than ever before.

I love the game of college basketball but I fear it will become unrecognizable over the next five to ten years.

Duke and UNC are unique because both haven’t had openings in forever and are focused so much on “family” and “brotherhood”. They could have written a blank check and gotten any coach in the country but opted to keep it in house.

What’s going to hurt Scheyer is Coach Ks Team USA connections. I’m sure K will be somewhat involved but Scheyer won’t be able to use a pretty major recruiting piece.

[WVRed]

Sheyer has his work cut out for him. Very few coaches following legends succeed. UCLA and Indiana have gone through a bunch of coaches and never really got back to that level consistently. It took a couple of coaches to go through UNC before Williams got the ship righted. Joe B. Hall probably followed a legend better than anyone at Kentucky. He kept Kentucky more than relevant and brought them back up notch from where Rupp left them. But he seems to be an exception. It's going to be interesting to see how these successors do in the coming years with people like Boeheim,Huggins and probably Calipari retiring in the near future.

Joe B also did something in that he was responsible for integrating the Kentucky basketball program. That alone is an accomplishment given the history and the fanbase.

Calipari seems to be embracing the transfer rule although he was dead set against it when Bruiser Flint lost his top player at Drexel (Damion Lee) to Louisville before he got fired. He knows the game is changing and is adjusting instead of getting out.

Mike Davis had some success at Indiana following RMK.

[Revering4Blue]

Duke and UNC are unique because both haven’t had openings in forever and are focused so much on “family” and “brotherhood”. They could have written a blank check and gotten any coach in the country but opted to keep it in house.

What’s going to hurt Scheyer is Coach Ks Team USA connections. I’m sure K will be somewhat involved but Scheyer won’t be able to use a pretty major recruiting piece.Written a blank check, yes. Actually landing virtually any elite coach in this CBB landscape with said check, not so much.

Wright and Few aren't going anywhere, except to the NBA if they so chose to eventually do so. Sampson, at his age, isn't leaving Houston. Scott Drew is firmly entrenched in Waco. Even the major conference up-and-comers - Oats, Musselman, for example. - are quite capable of producing championship teams in their current situations, instead of dealing with the fanbases and intense scrutiny associated with UNC, Duke, UK etc.

This isn't a case analogous to OSU and Alabama football, in which you MUST coach for a top-tier job to realistically have a shot at winning a National Championship. No parity factor at all in CFB compared with CBB, but that's a topic for another thread.

And I wouldn't be too concerned about Hubert Davis and Scheyer recruiting, with the established UNC 1-75 recruiting pipeline. And does anyone really going to believe that ESPN and the like are suddenly going to stop their constant promotion of Duke hoops? Such free promotion is quite a recruiting tool, no?

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[Danny Serafini]

Scott Drew is 50. There may be things keeping him at Baylor and not chasing another job, but his age isn't one of them.

[Reds Freak]

I think the free transfer and NIL panic is a bit overblown. I'm guessing the players and coaches will make an adjustment and the game will be just fine. This year the numbers are especially high with the first year of the new transfer rule and the free COVID year.

Nearly every other NCAA sport has always had a free one-time transfer and you don't see massive player movements. Granted, men's basketball will probably see the most movement of any sport with the AAU-ification of the sport, but I think things will level set moving forward.

[Chip R]

Duke had the pick of pretty much every single basketball coach in the game and went with Scheyer, an interesting choice.

I do think a lot of old time coaches will hang it up over the next few years. I don't think its because of NIL, I think it will be because of the "free transfer" more than anything else. Building a team and keeping a team together will be much tougher than ever before.

I love the game of college basketball but I fear it will become unrecognizable over the next five to ten years.

Isn't he K's head recruiter? If he is, he's largely responsible for the talent that has come in over the past several years. And to those who believe Duke cheats, he probably knows where the bodies are buried - so to speak.

I'm sure a lot of the old-timers will be leaving but more likely because they are old.

[bucksfan2]

I think the free transfer and NIL panic is a bit overblown. I'm guessing the players and coaches will make an adjustment and the game will be just fine. This year the numbers are especially high with the first year of the new transfer rule and the free COVID year.

Nearly every other NCAA sport has always had a free one-time transfer and you don't see massive player movements. Granted, men's basketball will probably see the most movement of any sport with the AAU-ification of the sport, but I think things will level set moving forward.

Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.

[Boston Red]

I'm sure Scheyer will recruit just fine. At least at first. However, if recruiting were enough, Memphis and Georgia Tech would be good.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.

You also have to be honest with kids who often are lied to all the time by hangers on, street agents, other kids, backers, and coaches already.

Unlimited transfers is a true game-changers in college athletics.

[bucksfan2]

You also have to be honest with kids who often are lied to all the time by hangers on, street agents, other kids, backers, and coaches already.

Unlimited transfers is a true game-changers in college athletics.

There isn't a single kid who is recruited isn't lied to in recruiting. Now there may be varying degrees, but most recruits are lied to.

How many coaches do you think would tell a recruit this: In year one you will come in, we will work you into the rotation and get you some minutes, in year two we expect you to develop into a starter, in year three we expect you to develop even further into a potential all conference player, and after you time here we expect you to make a living playing basketball overseas.

Too many people have unrealistic NBA dreams and spend years toiling away in Des Moines making peanuts in the G-League instead of playing in Europe. If a coach came in and told a top 100 type recruit that his future was in Europe, he would have no chance of signing him.

[WVRed]

Written a blank check, yes. Actually landing virtually any elite coach in this CBB landscape with said check, not so much.

Wright and Few aren't going anywhere, except to the NBA if they so chose to eventually do so. Sampson, at his age, isn't leaving Houston. Scott Drew is firmly entrenched in Waco. Even the major conference up-and-comers - Oats, Musselman, for example. - are quite capable of producing championship teams in their current situations, instead of dealing with the fanbases and intense scrutiny associated with UNC, Duke, UK etc.

This isn't a case analogous to OSU and Alabama football, in which you MUST coach for a top-tier job to realistically have a shot at winning a National Championship. No parity factor at all in CFB compared with CBB, but that's a topic for another thread.

And I wouldn't be too concerned about Hubert Davis and Scheyer recruiting, with the established UNC 1-75 recruiting pipeline. And does anyone really going to believe that ESPN and the like are suddenly going to stop their constant promotion of Duke hoops? Such free promotion is quite a recruiting tool, no?

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

I’m not saying they won’t get top recruits but I do think it will take a hit. I could see Duke and UNC both going back to the traditional method while Kentucky is still competing with the G-League for the top prospects.

It’s one thing for Coach K to use Team USA as a selling point against Cal and his track record of one and dones. It’s another when it’s first year coach Scheyer going against it. And Kentucky and Duke are pretty equal in their treatment by ESPN (although most UK fans don’t see it that way)

[WVRed]

Isn't he K's head recruiter? If he is, he's largely responsible for the talent that has come in over the past several years. And to those who believe Duke cheats, he probably knows where the bodies are buried - so to speak.

I'm sure a lot of the old-timers will be leaving but more likely because they are old.

He is but Jeff Capel (who has since gone to Pitt) was the one responsible for the one and done era at Duke. He recruited Tatum and Zion among others.

[adkindo]

Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.

I think the transfer rule will be much more detrimental to college basketball than NIL for exactly the reasons you mention. Ask 100 players that have completed their college basketball careers and were successful, but did not start Game 1 as a Freshman; a large number of them will admit they would have considered transferring if there was no penalty. It will hurt more young men than it helps as one of the beauties of college athletics is kids are recruited and leave the program young men.....young men that have went through the bumps, struggles, tough times, etc. and overcame by learning discipline, teamwork, and communication skills in tough situations. Can anyone imagine if the Army allowed you to transfer to another unit or branch of the military during basic training if you were not content with your choice or did not get along with your Drill Sergeant (jeez, now that I said it, I can actually imagine this happening at some point)? There is a reason former players flock back to Morgantown every summer and speak of Huggins with great reverence....and it was not because he was so nice to them.

[Reds Freak]

Basketball is a cesspool at the high school level even more so when you consider AAU ball. It used to be you would recruit a kid but once they were enrolled the kid gloves came off and you could really coach them.

In today's game, everyone has the potential to transfer at anytime. Not only did you have to coach, but you have to worry about them transfering. You have to worry about roster building based upon the whims of a 18-22 year old kid. I think a lot of coaches if given the opportunity would rather not deal with that.

I agree with most of this, but again I think coaches and players will make adjustments and the game will be fine. I'd think the goal of any coach is to build the type of program where quality kids come in, love it, and want to stay there. I think eventually a lot of these kids will also realize the grass isn't always greener.

BZ, to be clear, it's not an unlimited transfer rule. It's my understanding if you transfer for a second time you'll have to sit out a year. No in-season transfers with immediate eligibility and a few other stipulations.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I agree with most of this, but again I think coaches and players will make adjustments and the game will be fine. I'd think the goal of any coach is to build the type of program where quality kids come in, love it, and want to stay there. I think eventually a lot of these kids will also realize the grass isn't always greener.

I tend to view these statements through the eyes of the kid and parent instead of the coach or program and would argue that coaches don't often care about the quality of kid or what he learns as long as he can continue to help the coach win. Once he can't, the kid's almost always cut loose. He's also always recruited over.

Why not give the kid the same freedom of movement?

(I realize you're not arguing against this-- just ranting.)

[WVRed]

I tend to view these statements through the eyes of the kid and parent instead of the coach or program and would argue that coaches don't often care about the quality of kid or what he learns as long as he can continue to help the coach win. Once he can't, the kid's almost always cut loose. He's also always recruited over.

Why not give the kid the same freedom of movement?

(I realize you're not arguing against this-- just ranting.)

They aren’t cut loose, they usually ride the pine or are moved out of the rotation. At that point, it’s a participation trophy. The kid either stays and tries to compete for playing time or moves somewhere they should have went in the first place.

I always think of Calipari when he says “Kentucky isn’t for everybody”. He’s not wrong but when kids are being wowed with Big Blue Madness, Nick Sabans Mercedes dealership and lake house, etc the kids make decisions on impulse.

[Bourgeois Zee]

They aren’t cut loose, they usually ride the pine or are moved out of the rotation.

Bobby Petrino and Tom Crean disagree, but that's immaterial.

Kids should have the freedom to move on if they want to.

[Boston Red]

Ohio State will visit Xavier as part of the Gavitt Games.

[Assembly Hall]

Ohio State will visit Xavier as part of the Gavitt Games.

I see my Hoosiers got the Johnnies at home.

[BillDoran]

This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).

[Bourgeois Zee]

This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).

In my knee-jerk opinion, I think Marquette is the better job. Better history, better hoops programs and resultant talent, and less local competition. Iowa State has to compete not only with Iowa, but with Wichita State, Kansas, and Kansas State. Marquette has to deal with Wisconsin. Marquette has a history of "cool"-- the 1977 uniforms with Al McGuire and Butch Lee, D Wade. They also have an underrated group still playing in the NBA-- Butler is an All-NBA guy, Crowder is a first division starter, Wes Mathews is a second division starter, and a couple of young guys as well.

[BillDoran]

In my knee-jerk opinion, I think Marquette is the better job. Better history, better hoops programs and resultant talent, and less local competition. Iowa State has to compete not only with Iowa, but with Wichita State, Kansas, and Kansas State. Marquette has to deal with Wisconsin. Marquette has a history of "cool"-- the 1977 uniforms with Al McGuire and Butch Lee, D Wade. They also have an underrated group still playing in the NBA-- Butler is an All-NBA guy, Crowder is a first division starter, Wes Mathews is a second division starter, and a couple of young guys as well.

I think this is pretty spot-on summation of the programs. Marquette's got more history and more swagger. Milwaukee's a pretty good basketball town too (and they share the arena with the 2021 NBA champs!).

Curious to know which coach you think will have more success.

I ask because I'm a little bearish on Shaka. I think he caught lightening in a bottle at VCU, and he's got a lot of charisma. He recruited well at Texas but never managed to win a NCAA tourney. While Otzelberger didn't do much at UNLV, he was really successful at South Dakota State (though that 's been a really strong program for quite a while now).

[Revering4Blue]

This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).

IMHO, both hired the right guy. But, to answer the question of the program in better shape in five years, I'm going with Smart and Marquette under the following premise: Smart will not make the same mistake he made at UT of eschewing his 'havoc' approach for long stretches., especially mind-boggling when he had Myles Turner, Bamba, Jones, Sims and others protecting the rim over the years. And he's also going to require better luck with elements out his control than he experienced in Austin: Andrew Jones sidelined for long stretches with Leukemia, for example.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I think this is pretty spot-on summation of the programs. Marquette's got more history and more swagger. Milwaukee's a pretty good basketball town too (and they share the arena with the 2021 NBA champs!).

Curious to know which coach you think will have more success.

I ask because I'm a little bearish on Shaka. I think he caught lightening in a bottle at VCU, and he's got a lot of charisma. He recruited well at Texas but never managed to win a NCAA tourney. While Otzelberger didn't do much at UNLV, he was really successful at South Dakota State (though that 's been a really strong program for quite a while now).

I think part of Smart's appeal as a coach boils down to his ability to get players to buy in completely to his approach.

For whatever reason, they didn't in Texas. Perhaps it was that they had too much talent and too many other options.

At Marquette, he'll be free to recruit those less heralded guys who have a chip on their shoulders, who should be more willing to buy into "havok!".

Speaking of, IMO, Smart's biggest issue was that his Longhorn offense was antiquated. They ranked 68th in attempts from distance and 90th in percentage last season. The year before that, they ranked 92nd in attempts and 173rd in percentage. In 2018, it was 70th and 154th. So maybe it's about establishing the post or looking for easy layups, right? That'd work, I guess.

Were that the case, they'd have a bunch more free throws attempted. They've been near the bottom in the entirety of Division I hoops for three years running on free throw attempts, though.

Clearly, they're settling for mid-range jumpers instead of either driving to the hoop or driving and kicking out to an open teammate. That's an offensive decision, likely from the head coach. And while those shots might be open, there's a reason why more teams don't take them-- they're bad shots when compared to every other type of shot on the offensive side of the ball.

Smart's Texas teams played a plodding style and focused on the exact wrong types of shots in order to be successful. He was a bit more successful with that style at VCU-- and he definitely had better shooters. I'm guessing he'll get back to recruiting those types of guys-- the Troy Daniels of the world, who feel underappreciated and work their tails off in order to succeed and therefore work harder at shooting (and other habits) than do ultra-talented guys who he recruited at Texas.

For a team that plays with as much reckless abandon as Smart typically does, that's way, way too low.

[BillDoran]

Smart admitted in his Marquette presser that the havoc system from VCU was long-gone. He said it wouldn't work in the current officiating environment.

His Texas teams were absolutely loaded with super-long athletes--lottery picks Jarrett Allen (wrong, No. 22), Mo Bamba and Jaxson Hayes, and this year he had Greg Brown, Jericho Sims and Kai Jones--- yet it didn't produce top-notch defense, and like BZ noted, they played ssllooww.

The combination of underachieving the talent and the antiquated offense makes me hesitant. Smart is undefeated in press conferences, but the on-court production has never matched the VCU hype (and there's pretty good evidence that the program was and is in very good hands before and after him). I'm rooting for him, but I do wonder if a lower-profile coach like Otzelberger may ultimately have been a better fit. That said, hope Smart is a home run hire. He's easy to root for.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Smart admitted in his Marquette presser that the havoc system from VCU was long-gone. He said it wouldn't work in the current officiating environment.

I'm waiting for someone to realize Nate Oats' five-out slip- or ghost-screen dribble drive approach at Alabama is the current gold standard for NCAA offenses.

[Chip R]

This is pretty obscure, but I had a debate with a friend recently about Iowa State and Marquette basketball.

Both hired news coaches this year; T.J. Otzelberger left UNLV for Ames, and Shaka Smart moved to Milwaukee from Texas.

Who do you think will have their program in better shape in five years?

Both are relatively down (hence the new coaches) but have had reasonably similar runs of success in the past 15-20 years. Marquette fans believe they could have hired Otzelberger had they wanted to (he was born and raised in Milwaukee). Shaka's obviously the bigger name of the two, but I'm not convinced he's the better coach. The shine is off after his time in Austin, though winning at UT is tough.

Anyways, just curious to know what folks think (presuming people think of these programs at all).

Being from Iowa and still following some people back there, I'm a bit more familiar with ISU's program than most. It sounds like they were very pleased to get him. T.J. used to be an assistant at ISU and was their top recruiter. Take it from me, getting guys to come to Ames, IA is not an easy thing. However, the fans are very passionate and if you win there, the fan will love you to death. One possible fly in the ointment is the improvement of ISU's football program. They have improved the stadium and other areas of the program and it's possible that basketball isn't going to get the love it used to get. Another thing to look at is what happens when OU and UT go to the SEC. They will still have Kansas but what if they decide to go to the B1G? Then you have no bell cows in that conference save for Baylor and while they have a great program now, is it sustainable?

As for Marquette, Shaka did very well at Virginia Tech but UT may have been too much for him. With Marquette there's no football program to compete against. They play in the Big East so they are in a major conference. That helps when they give out NCAA bids. With the Bucks winning the NBA championship and having Giannis there, it may be cool to play in Milwaukee now. You play hoops at Marquette, you probably can't help but run into Giannis a few times. I think Marquette may be in the better place in the future but there are a lot of unknowns with ISU.

[BillDoran]

I'm waiting for someone to realize Nate Oats' five-out slip- or ghost-screen dribble drive approach at Alabama is the current gold standard for NCAA offenses.

Not super familiar with his system, but Oats has been dynamite and appears to be in the top-tier of young coaches. (Also, delusional Marquette fans thought he could be lured back to his home state.) Wonder if he'll jump ship or build Alabama into a superpower.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Wonder if he'll jump ship or build Alabama into a superpower.

He is, IMO, the odds-on favorite to take over at Kentucky after Calipari.

If not there, KU, MSU, or perhaps Duke...?

[WVRed]

He is, IMO, the odds-on favorite to take over at Kentucky after Calipari.

If not there, KU, MSU, or perhaps Duke...?

Respectfully disagree. Oats has Gregg Marshall written all over him minus the player abuse. Good where he’s at but his obnoxious personality would be a put off for a larger fanbase where he’d be expected to do more than coach basketball.

It’s not just Kentucky either. Brad Stevens basically decided he’d rather not coach at all than coach at Indiana for I’d say is the same reason.

Alabama in Sabans shadow is the perfect fit for him. I see Kentucky promoting from within unless there’s a sure fire situation where someone who is an obvious fit is available and Oats ain’t it.

[adkindo]

The Athletic writers did a conference realignment with a snake draft based on basketball. Some of the selections (if they drafted snake style in the order presented)....

#1 - Kentucky
#8 - Indiana
#14 - Ohio State
#31 - WVU
#38 - Cincinnati

https://theathletic.com/2764906/2021/08/12/realignment-gets-weird-the-athletic-drafts-new-mens-college-basketball-conferences/

[Boston Red]

How'd Xavier do?

[Assembly Hall]

The Athletic writers did a conference realignment with a snake draft based on basketball. Some of the selections (if they drafted snake style in the order presented)....

#1 - Kentucky
#8 - Indiana
#14 - Ohio State
#31 - WVU
#38 - Cincinnati

https://theathletic.com/2764906/2021/08/12/realignment-gets-weird-the-athletic-drafts-new-mens-college-basketball-conferences/

Can you explain this some?

[adkindo]

How'd Xavier do?

Looks like #37

[Boston Red]

Looks like #37

Well, I enjoy the symbolism of that placement. Just wish we hadn't sucked of late.

[adkindo]

Can you explain this some?

Just 6 Athletic writers used a snake draft to build the strongest 12 team basketball conferences. It appears Eamonn Brennan had pick #1 and took UK, and then his next pick was Louisville @ #12, and then Ohio State @ #13 (correction from above). Matthew Gutierrez had the 2nd pick and took UNC and his next pick was Virginia @ #11. Am I making sense...you are familiar with a snake draft?

[Assembly Hall]

Just 6 Athletic writers used a snake draft to build the strongest 12 team basketball conferences. It appears Eamonn Brennan had pick #1 and took UK, and then his next pick was Louisville @ #12, and then Ohio State @ #13 (correction from above). Matthew Gutierrez had the 2nd pick and took UNC and his next pick was Virginia @ #11. Am I making sense...you are familiar with a snake draft?

Where was Purdue?

[Bourgeois Zee]

Just 6 Athletic writers used a snake draft to build the strongest 12 team basketball conferences. It appears Eamonn Brennan had pick #1 and took UK, and then his next pick was Louisville @ #12, and then Ohio State @ #13 (correction from above). Matthew Gutierrez had the 2nd pick and took UNC and his next pick was Virginia @ #11. Am I making sense...you are familiar with a snake draft?

Kentucky was the fourth pick.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Just 6 Athletic writers used a snake draft to build the strongest 12 team basketball conferences. It appears Eamonn Brennan had pick #1 and took UK, and then his next pick was Louisville @ #12, and then Ohio State @ #13 (correction from above). Matthew Gutierrez had the 2nd pick and took UNC and his next pick was Virginia @ #11. Am I making sense...you are familiar with a snake draft?

Kentucky was the fourth pick.

(Kansas, Duke, UNC, then UK.)

[adkindo]

Kentucky was the fourth pick.

that is correct, and likely means all of my claims will be off a few spots one way or the other. The article begins with Brennan's picks as if he went first, but I do notice in the text he claims he grabbed UK at #4. Here are the 72 picks with overall selection in parenthesis.

#1's
Kansas (1)
Duke (2)
North Carolina (3)
Kentucky (4)
Michigan (5)
Gonzaga (6)

#2's
Indiana (12)
UConn (11)
Virginia (10)
Louisville (9)
Michigan State (8)
Villanova (7)

#3's
UCLA (13)
Baylor (14)
Alabama (15)
Ohio State (16)
Oregon (17)
Syracuse (18)

#4's
Illinois (24)
Arizona (23)
Florida State (22)
Purdue (21)
Maryland (20)
Memphis (19)

#5's
Texas (25)
Tennessee (26)
Penn State (27)
Wisconsin (28)
Arkansas (29)
USC (30)

#6's
UNLV (36)
Stanford (35)
Notre Dame (34)
Xavier (33)
West Virginia (32)
Butler (31)

#7's
San Diego State (37)
Oklahoma (38)
Georgetown (39)
Cincinnati (40)
Loyola Chicago (41)
Marquette (42)

#8's
Iowa State (48)
BYU (47)
Virginia Tech (46)
Oklahoma State (45)
Creighton (44)
Wichita State (43)

#9's
Iowa (49)
Florida (50)
Auburn (51)
Houston (52)
Arizona State (53)
Seton Hall (54)

#10's
Texas Tech (60)
Missouri (59)
LSU (58)
Pittsburgh (57)
VCU (56)
Washington (55)

#11's
Minnesota (61)
South Carolina (62)
NC State (63)
Colorado (64)
Dayton (65)
Utah (66)

#12's
New Mexico (72)
Vermont (71)
Rutgers (70)
DePaul (69)
St. John's (68)
Saint Mary's (67)

[Assembly Hall]

that is correct, and likely means all of my claims will be off a few spots one way or the other. The article begins with Brennan's picks as if he went first, but I do notice in the text he claims he grabbed UK at #4. Here are the 72 picks with overall selection in parenthesis.

#1's
Kansas (1)
Duke (2)
North Carolina (3)
Kentucky (4)
Michigan (5)
Gonzaga (6)

#2's
Indiana (12)
UConn (11)
Virginia (10)
Louisville (9)
Michigan State (8)
Villanova (7)

#3's
UCLA (13)
Baylor (14)
Alabama (15)
Ohio State (16)
Oregon (17)
Syracuse (18)

#4's
Illinois (24)
Arizona (23)
Florida State (22)
Purdue (21)
Maryland (20)
Memphis (19)

#5's
Texas (25)
Tennessee (26)
Penn State (27)
Wisconsin (28)
Arkansas (29)
USC (30)

#6's
UNLV (36)
Stanford (35)
Notre Dame (34)
Xavier (33)
West Virginia (32)
Butler (31)

#7's
San Diego State (37)
Oklahoma (38)
Georgetown (39)
Cincinnati (40)
Loyola Chicago (41)
Marquette (42)

#8's
Iowa State (48)
BYU (47)
Virginia Tech (46)
Oklahoma State (45)
Creighton (44)
Wichita State (43)

#9's
Iowa (49)
Florida (50)
Auburn (51)
Houston (52)
Arizona State (53)
Seton Hall (54)

#10's
Texas Tech (60)
Missouri (59)
LSU (58)
Pittsburgh (57)
VCU (56)
Washington (55)

#11's
Minnesota (61)
South Carolina (62)
NC State (63)
Colorado (64)
Dayton (65)
Utah (66)

#12's
New Mexico (72)
Vermont (71)
Rutgers (70)
DePaul (69)
St. John's (68)
Saint Mary's (67)

TY and what is the criteria again?

[Boston Red]

Mark Few was caught drunk driving in Idaho last night. I suspect Gonzaga will give Few a second chance. :)

[Assembly Hall]

Mark Few was caught drunk driving in Idaho last night. I suspect Gonzaga will give Few a second chance. :)

No one hurt? I suspect there won't be any protest against Few's actions on campus.

[adkindo]

No one hurt? I suspect there won't be any protest against Few's actions on campus.

It will be interesting.....he is well liked by much of the media, but there is a segment of the media that are not high on him because of some non-basketball opinions he has expressed over the years. I will be interested to see if they attempt to take their pound of flesh. Has any reports indicated the amount in his system? Just wonder if it was driving home from a dinner with friends type of slightly over the limit.....or was guy out just being a danger to others on the road with no reasonable explanation?

[Boston Red]

0.12

[Assembly Hall]

It will be interesting.....he is well liked by much of the media, but there is a segment of the media that are not high on him because of some non-basketball opinions he has expressed over the years. I will be interested to see if they attempt to take their pound of flesh. Has any reports indicated the amount in his system? Just wonder if it was driving home from a dinner with friends type of slightly over the limit.....or was guy out just being a danger to others on the road with no reasonable explanation?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/gonzaga-basketball-coach-mark-few-facing-charge-of-dui/

Yeah, I have some questions myself.

[Assembly Hall]

Illinois extends Underwood through 2027.

[WVRed]

Illinois extends Underwood through 2027.

Will be curious to see how Illinois does long term losing two of their top assistants.

[adkindo]

I know there are some Dayton fans on here.....it appears the WVU and Dayton will be matched up this year in the preseason annual "secret" scrimmage.

[Assembly Hall]

I know there are some Dayton fans on here.....it appears the WVU and Dayton will be matched up this year in the preseason annual "secret" scrimmage.

Is either school on "double secret probation?"

[adkindo]

Going on the record.....this years WVU team will be significantly better than preseason projections/expectations. WVU did not receive a single vote in the preseason AP Poll, and has been projected either 5th or 6th on most Big12 projections. I kind of get it....a lot of new pieces and the team lost Deuce McBride and Derek Culver. The team probably has a lower ceiling than going into last year with McBride, Culver and Tshiebwe, but I think this teams pieces will work better....and win more games.

Last night was the first time I got to see this years team play in an exhibition against Akron who is projected to be in the upper half of the MAC this season. WVU only won by 15 points, but Akron made a late run well after the game was decided to close the gap as WVU spent much of the night with a 30ish point advantage. WVU has a fairly light non-con schedule this year, and it should help them have time to clean up their play with half of the roster being new.....but the potential was clear. Again, just want to be on the record when this team is climbing the rankings in January "out of nowhere".

Thoughts from the exhibition game....

- Taz Sherman was unstoppable. Scored 29 points on 10-14 shooting and only played 22 minutes. Him and Sean McNeal have the green light from Huggins (which is rare) and are a threat to pull up anytime after passing half court. I expect Taz to be among the leaders in college basketball scoring this season.

- I think Huggins found his next Deuce McBride in Freshman Kobe Johnson. A under recruited Guard out of Ohio, that flashes big time talent. He may be a year away from major impact (similar to Deuce), but he will get real minutes this season.

- Isaiah Cottrell looked like he never missed a beat coming off an ACL injury that ended his Freshman campaign last year. He is 6'10" with a silky 3 point shot. If healthy, will be a lock to play in the NBA.

- Jalen Bridges, a 4 Star recruit coming off a solid RS Freshman season is expected to break out this year, but he was not aggressive enough in the exhibition game.

- Sean McNeal...probably the best pure 3 point shooter on the roster, had an off night....but showed he has little to no hesitation to pull up from anywhere past half court. He will have multiple 30 point nights this season.

- Derek Culver is gone, but we have 4 bigs that will get the job done. Each are a little different and at least 3 of the 4 will play most nights. They are more in the mold of defensive rim protectors and rim runners in contrast to Culver who was more of a low post scorer. While Culver was more talented on offense, this group is a better fit for the style of the offense this year which will mostly be perimeter oriented 4 out basketball.

- PG is a question mark....but it appears there is not really a true PG on this roster. Returning defensive specialist Kedrian Johnson got the start last night, and Old Dominion transfer Malik Curry got heavy minutes....but he is more of a get to the rim scoring guard. Last night, 4 or 5 different guys brought the ball up the court and set up the offense which is probably the plan for the season. I would expect Kobe Johnson to eat into those minutes a little more as the season progresses.

- Defense showed a ton of energy compared to last season....was much more aggressive and even showed the return of Press Virginia at different points in the game. They forced Akron into 20 turnovers.

This is a deep athletic roster that can hit shots. They may not win the Big12 which is projected to be the #1 conference this season, but they will have an impact on the conference race. It is definitely a NCAA tournament team that will win 20 or more games during the season.

[Assembly Hall]

Looks like the season is upon us.

[adkindo]

Looks like the season is upon us.

After a football season like the current one.....Thank God.

[Assembly Hall]

After a football season like the current one.....Thank God.

My thoughts exactly.

[adkindo]

My thoughts exactly.

Worst part about this season will be hearing about Coach K's retirement every 15 minutes of every game on ESPN.

[Boston Red]

Let's go X!

(Please don't suck again)

[Rojo Rijo]

Going to be a nice and interesting season with how many transfers there were thanks to the one time free for all.

[KronoRed]

Oh man I can't handle Mike White BB so soon.

[WVRed]

Oh man I can't handle Mike White BB so soon.

Better than Dan Mullen football.

[Assembly Hall]

Virginia loses at home to Navy? Happy Veteran's Day.

[RedTeamGo!]

Buckeyes had trouble with Akron, didn’t seem overly fluky. Wouldn’t be surprised if Akron wins the MAC.

[Boston Red]

Looking at results, the MAC as a whole acquitted itself pretty well last night.

[Assembly Hall]

Looking at results, the MAC as a whole acquitted itself pretty well last night.

I took notice of a few of them. Ohio beats Belmont and NIU over Washington in Seattle. Can we say that Hopkins has been a total disappointment for the Huskies?

- - - Updated - - -


Buckeyes had trouble with Akron, didn’t seem overly fluky. Wouldn’t be surprised if Akron wins the MAC.

The Zips will be dancing or I will be surprised.

[Boston Red]

College basketball is so weird. We start the season with such complete garbage on a random Tuesday. Sure Michigan State/KU and Duke/UK happened, but no one (outside of the fan bases) REALLY cared. We get a lot of great basketball Thanksgiving week, but maybe we should start with that instead of the parade of blowouts between power conference teams and Little Sisters of the Poor. At least start on a Friday night and have 10 compelling games between Friday and Saturday. There are 330 NCAA Division I teams, so you can't tell me you can't figure out how to put together 10 good games for an opening weekend.

[Danny Serafini]

Is it really any different than college football? They start off with that weird Week 0 that's just a few garbage games, and then the first real week is a few good games but mostly the big boys blowing out bad non-conference opponents as a warmup.

[Boston Red]

College football's first weekend kinda stinks, too. You're right. They both need to do better at getting people excited for that first week with some better matchups.

[Assembly Hall]

Is it really any different than college football? They start off with that weird Week 0 that's just a few garbage games, and then the first real week is a few good games but mostly the big boys blowing out bad non-conference opponents as a warmup.

Big difference between the CFP and March Madness.

[WVRed]

College basketball is so weird. We start the season with such complete garbage on a random Tuesday. Sure Michigan State/KU and Duke/UK happened, but no one (outside of the fan bases) REALLY cared. We get a lot of great basketball Thanksgiving week, but maybe we should start with that instead of the parade of blowouts between power conference teams and Little Sisters of the Poor. At least start on a Friday night and have 10 compelling games between Friday and Saturday. There are 330 NCAA Division I teams, so you can't tell me you can't figure out how to put together 10 good games for an opening weekend.

It was better when ESPN did the 24 hours of college basketball. Better games advertised and plenty of promotion. Had Kentucky not been playing last night, I doubt I would have known.

Also worked out of town last night so I missed the Coach K farewell tour.

[adkindo]

Buckeyes had trouble with Akron, didn’t seem overly fluky. Wouldn’t be surprised if Akron wins the MAC.

A lot of P6 teams are making similar claims (or hopes) today after their opening game was not as easy as expected against a mid major.

[adkindo]

It really sucked watching WVU struggle so much on the boards last night.....then watching Oscar dominate the boards for UK.

[adkindo]

Is it really any different than college football? They start off with that weird Week 0 that's just a few garbage games, and then the first real week is a few good games but mostly the big boys blowing out bad non-conference opponents as a warmup.

When I saw WVU's preseason schedule, I was not ecstatic that it lacked many brand names. I think UConn and St. Bonn are the only ranked teams. After watching WVU last night, I am actually glad it does not have any highly ranked teams in the non-conference. This team is a team that will need to improve and clean up a lot...so it will need to bank some wins more than playing prove it games.

[Boston Red]

One nice thing about basketball compared to football is that it doesn't really hurt you to get smacked around by a superior team earlier in the season. Sometimes it actually helps quite a bit. No better wake up call to a team than getting thumped.

[WVRed]

It really sucked watching WVU struggle so much on the boards last night.....then watching Oscar dominate the boards for UK.

I have a feeling WVU fans are going to be looking at Oscar this year and be thinking “what might have been?”

[adkindo]

I have a feeling WVU fans are going to be looking at Oscar this year and be thinking “what might have been?”

There is no doubt we would like to still have him, but it was in interesting situation. First, WVU does not get guys like Oscar regularly.....someone with that level of raw talent and athleticism. That is kind of where the problem began in that Oscar was a low rated 5 Star who arrived the year after Culver a high rated 4 Star, and both were pretty much limited to play to 5. Culver was supposed to arrive a year earlier, but had to do a year of prep school. (I am not sure what Huggins would have did if Konate came back for his Senior season.) Neither were one and done level players, and it created a log jam of sorts. Huggins felt they were maybe the two most talented players on the roster, and tried to force them on the court together. It never really worked, and Culver seem to win out as he was a far better offensive option on a roster that struggled with offense.

In the end, it has worked out well for Oscar. I still think it was risky when his people was telling him he had to get out of WVU to get to the NBA. I am not sure this works out as well if he ends up at Miami or another Adidas school which was initially the expectation. Again, I have to admit it worked out for him because while he would have been a "star" at WVU this year, it is still better to be a star at UK. I think he is a very good young man with solid character....and wish him well.

[RedTeamGo!]

A lot of P6 teams are making similar claims (or hopes) today after their opening game was not as easy as expected against a mid major.

That’s fair. To be clear, I’m not an OSU bball Homer. They aren’t my favorite college bball team, that would be the Dayton Flyers. I have been one of the biggest OSU bball critics on here since I’ve joined the site. I was calling for Matta to be fired for years. I think this OSU team is certainly flawed and I’m not sold they are a top 25 team. They lack a scoring threat from the guard position and don’t have an experienced PG. Will not be surprised at all if they miss the tourney this year.

With that said, I watch a lot of MAC basketball, because of my alma mater, the University of Toledo. This Akron team looked better than your average MAC team. I will be surprised if my Rockets can beat them. On the flip Buffalo gave Michigan a bit of a fight tonight and NIU beat Washington last night. Going to be a good year in the MAC, hopefully.

[adkindo]

That’s fair. To be clear, I’m not an OSU bball Homer. They aren’t my favorite college bball team, that would be the Dayton Flyers. I have been one of the biggest OSU bball critics on here since I’ve joined the site. I was calling for Matta to be fired for years. I think this OSU team is certainly flawed and I’m not sold they are a top 25 team. They lack a scoring threat from the guard position and don’t have an experienced PG. Will not be surprised at all if they miss the tourney this year.

With that said, I watch a lot of MAC basketball, because of my alma mater, the University of Toledo. This Akron team looked better than your average MAC team. I will be surprised if my Rockets can beat them. On the flip Buffalo gave Michigan a bit of a fight tonight and NIU beat Washington last night. Going to be a good year in the MAC, hopefully.

In no way was that meant to be negative towards you or Ohio State.....last night a lot of WVU fans were saying "I think Oakland is better than they were projected" after the game was closer than expected. I was just making fun of all of us college basketball fans whose teams played programs that should be a lower tier but gave us a better game than expected.

[adkindo]

btw, I hope Akron is really good because WVU beat them fairly easy in an exhibition game last week.....final margin was only 15, but WVU was up by over 30 points about half way through the 2nd half and Akron closed the gap after the game was over.

[adkindo]

On this night....we BRAWL!

https://twitter.com/WVUhoops/status/1459158287786512392

[adkindo]

In no way was that meant to be negative towards you or Ohio State.....last night a lot of WVU fans were saying "I think Oakland is better than they were projected" after the game was closer than expected. I was just making fun of all of us college basketball fans whose teams played programs that should be a lower tier but gave us a better game than expected.

maybe Oakland was better than projected....they went into Stillwater and knocked off OK State tonight.

[Assembly Hall]

maybe Oakland was better than projected....they went into Stillwater and knocked off OK State tonight.

Oakland got beat by Eastern Michigan in a scrimmage. That same EMich team pretty much took my Hoosiers down to the wire.

[adkindo]

Oakland got beat by Eastern Michigan in a scrimmage. That same EMich team pretty much took my Hoosiers down to the wire.

Yeah, who knows what it all means this early in the season. Btw, I find it a tad bit strange that you know the results of a scrimmage between a MAC team and Horizon League team.....neither of which is your favorite team.

[Boston Red]

Got a 1 vs 5 matchup going in Spokane. And 1 appears to be much, much better than 5.

[Assembly Hall]

Yeah, who knows what it all means this early in the season. Btw, I find it a tad bit strange that you know the results of a scrimmage between a MAC team and Horizon League team.....neither of which is your favorite team.

Why? IU played EMU...so Hoosier fans do a little research on their opponents?

[WVRed]

Why? IU played EMU...so Hoosier fans do a little research on their opponents?

It’s not like it’s hard to do. Id say you probably follow Inside the Hall like I do Kentucky Sports Radio.

[Assembly Hall]

It’s not like it’s hard to do. Id say you probably follow Inside the Hall like I do Kentucky Sports Radio.

I guess WVU doesn't have anything like we do? LOL

[adkindo]

I guess WVU doesn't have anything like we do? LOL

a website focused on an universities athletics.....no, never heard of such a thing.

[adkindo]

Huggins catching Bobby Knight in wins did not get much attention....he will catch Roy Williams with his next win.

[Boston Red]

Couple of nice upsets for the Big East to kick off the Big East/Big Ten challenge.

[adkindo]

Couple of nice upsets for the Big East to kick off the Big East/Big Ten challenge.

I did not watch the game, but did Illinois just have a bad night.....or are they really that bad early on? 26 Turnovers and 24 Personal Fouls for Illinois compared to 14 Turnovers and 16 Personal Fouls for Marquette....and Marquette still only won by a point suggests that Illinois either had a bad mental night or are not well coached.

[WVRed]

I did not watch the game, but did Illinois just have a bad night.....or are they really that bad early on? 26 Turnovers and 24 Personal Fouls for Illinois compared to 14 Turnovers and 16 Personal Fouls for Marquette....and Marquette still only won by a point suggests that Illinois either had a bad mental night or are not well coached.

Illinois lost two of their top assistants in the offseason and Ayo Dosunmu to the draft. Still, they have Cockburn. Have to think they are replacing a lot.

[Boston Red]

Marquette has Shaka now, and his teams can definitely make the opponent play ugly sometimes.

[Danny Serafini]

Cockburn didn't play last night, it was game 3 of his 3 game suspension he got for jumping the gun and cashing in on some NIL stuff a month too soon.

[WVRed]

Coach Ks grandson arrested for DUI and Paolo Banchero charged for aiding and abetting:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article255858341.html

[Chip R]

Coach Ks grandson arrested for DUI and Paolo Banchero charged for aiding and abetting:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article255858341.html

That charge on Banchero looks pretty weak.

[Assembly Hall]

I did not watch the game, but did Illinois just have a bad night.....or are they really that bad early on? 26 Turnovers and 24 Personal Fouls for Illinois compared to 14 Turnovers and 16 Personal Fouls for Marquette....and Marquette still only won by a point suggests that Illinois either had a bad mental night or are not well coached.

Andre Curbelo had an atrocious game.

[Assembly Hall]

Marquette has Shaka now, and his teams can definitely make the opponent play ugly sometimes.

Play ugly? Hell, that is right down Wiscy's alley.

[Assembly Hall]

Coach Ks grandson arrested for DUI and Paolo Banchero charged for aiding and abetting:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article255858341.html

No underage drinking charges? I imagine 1 game suspensions?

[adkindo]

That charge on Banchero looks pretty weak.

Have to wonder if they were able to switch before the cop arrived at window? Banchero was in the back seat of his own Jeep....much easier for him to dive in the back while Coach K's grandson jumps over to driver seat. I would think odds are high Banchero would be in the passenger seat if it was just deciding to have Coach K's grandson drive.

[Sea Ray]

Have to wonder if they were able to switch before the cop arrived at window? Banchero was in the back seat of his own Jeep....much easier for him to dive in the back while Coach K's grandson jumps over to driver seat. I would think odds are high Banchero would be in the passenger seat if it was just deciding to have Coach K's grandson drive.

Actually it's a pretty nice life lesson for the young man to learn and little harm done

[Boston Red]

Play ugly? Hell, that is right down Wiscy's alley.

That was Illinois. Wisky lost to Providence.

[Assembly Hall]

That was Illinois. Wisky lost to Providence.

My bad. I got the two bad B1G losses mixed up.

[Boston Red]

Seton Hall over Michigan. Big East 4, Big Ten 0

[RedTeamGo!]

Ha, good stuff Seton Hall.

[Boston Red]

Nice win for X to clinch the Gavitt Games for the Big East.

[RedTeamGo!]

decent win for X. With that said, I’ve watched 3 of 4 OSU games so far this year. I’ll be shocked if they make the tourney this year. I know they were ranked going into the game tonight, but they do not have remotely good enough guard play to make it through the B1G with more than a few wins. They didn’t deserve that ranking.

[Sea Ray]

George Mason beats Maryland. Big upset

[Assembly Hall]

Historic run for the B1G. 4 different ranked teams fall in 4 consecutive days.


https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1461510952675946496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1461510952675946496%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbtownbanners.com%2Findex.php %3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl% 3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fjeffborzello%2Fstatu s%2F1461510952675946496%3Ft%3DYmWKAEO5VDebUSMXkB6J mw26s%3D19

[bucksfan2]

decent win for X. With that said, I’ve watched 3 of 4 OSU games so far this year. I’ll be shocked if they make the tourney this year. I know they were ranked going into the game tonight, but they do not have remotely good enough guard play to make it through the B1G with more than a few wins. They didn’t deserve that ranking.

They need time to develop. Liddell is star in this league, but isn't enough to single handedly lead this team to a win. The loss of Sueing hurts, because he was counted on to score and Young being injured at the start of the season wasn't helpful either.

This team hinges on how quickly Malaki Branham and Meechie Johnson develop. If they develop, they could have an explosive backcourt with Liddel and Key as quality post players. Too often we make snap judgements based upon early season play, when we really need to wait to see how things develop. In the past Holtman has had teams race off to a fast start but tire down the stretch. This team has the potential of being the opposite.

[adkindo]

It seems like Ohio State basketball has been routinely over ranked before conference play for the last several years? Maybe it just seems like every year, but it seems like several years recently they have went from highly ranked early in the season to a bubble team late in the season. Still, as I have said in the past.....a loss to Xavier may look much better later in the season.....at this early stage we know so little in college basketball about how teams stack up across the board.

[RedTeamGo!]

It seems like Ohio State basketball has been routinely over ranked before conference play for the last several years? Maybe it just seems like every year, but it seems like several years recently they have went from highly ranked early in the season to a bubble team late in the season. Still, as I have said in the past.....a loss to Xavier may look much better later in the season.....at this early stage we know so little in college basketball about how teams stack up across the board.

OSU was preseason ranked 23rd going into 2020 and ended up around there in the tourney.

Last years team was better, they deserved that ranking last year and were pretty solid all year. This year, I don’t think they should have been ranked.

[Chip R]

It seems like Ohio State basketball has been routinely over ranked before conference play for the last several years? Maybe it just seems like every year, but it seems like several years recently they have went from highly ranked early in the season to a bubble team late in the season. Still, as I have said in the past.....a loss to Xavier may look much better later in the season.....at this early stage we know so little in college basketball about how teams stack up across the board.

They are fortunate they are in the B1G. They could get in with a decent record.

[Assembly Hall]

As much as I hate to say it but Purdue is the best team in the B1G. I think the Boilers win the conference handily.

[Sea Ray]

As much as I hate to say it but Purdue is the best team in the B1G. I think the Boilers win the conference handily.

Tennessee may play them on Sunday

[Assembly Hall]

Tennessee may play them on Sunday

Then the Vols will get a first hand look at them. The Boilers are experienced and talented.

[Sea Ray]

Then the Vols will get a first hand look at them. The Boilers are experienced and talented.

Tennessee has 18 players and 7 freshman. Very talented but I don't think they're top 5 in the nation at this point by any means. They play Villanova on Saturday

[RedTeamGo!]

As much as I hate to say it but Purdue is the best team in the B1G. I think the Boilers win the conference handily.

You are severely underrating Michigan

[Assembly Hall]

You are severely underrating Michigan

Michigan lost a lot from last year. Talented? Yes. Experience? No.

[WVRed]

Bob Huggins sounds like a get off my lawn old man lately:

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/Big-win-good-mood-Not-for-Bob-Huggins-as-he-unloads-on-team-175675538/

He also unloaded on a former McDonalds All American recruit who is now the leading rebounder in the country.

[Sea Ray]

Bob Huggins sounds like a get off my lawn old man lately:

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/Big-win-good-mood-Not-for-Bob-Huggins-as-he-unloads-on-team-175675538/

He also unloaded on a former McDonalds All American recruit who is now the leading rebounder in the country.

We got postgame press conferences like that from Huggs often when he was here at UC. This is classic Huggins

[Assembly Hall]

Tennessee has 18 players and 7 freshman. Very talented but I don't think they're top 5 in the nation at this point by any means. They play Villanova on Saturday

So then they play Purdue/North Carolina on Sunday?

[Sea Ray]

So then they play Purdue/North Carolina on Sunday?

I think that's correct

[WVRed]

We got postgame press conferences like that from Huggs often when he was here at UC. This is classic Huggins

It’s funny though when the player who left actually is now in a better situation and how Huggins is reacting to it.

I kinda wish Kentucky played WVU this year now.

[adkindo]

Bob Huggins sounds like a get off my lawn old man lately:

https://247sports.com/college/west-virginia/Article/Big-win-good-mood-Not-for-Bob-Huggins-as-he-unloads-on-team-175675538/

He also unloaded on a former McDonalds All American recruit who is now the leading rebounder in the country.

for the record, most WVU fans on the 247 Board did not like that statement by Huggins

[adkindo]

We got postgame press conferences like that from Huggs often when he was here at UC. This is classic Huggins

most of it was classic Huggins....but the line referring to Oscar exiting was not needed.

[WVRed]

most of it was classic Huggins....but the line referring to Oscar exiting was not needed.

It just looks like sour grapes. The transfer portal is the new norm of college basketball. I see Huggins adapting about as well as Roy Williams did.

The days of burying talented players on the bench because you can control them for four years are gone.

Glad to see other WVU fans not upholding Huggins on this one. Usually whatever he says is gospel among a large portion of the fanbase.

FWIW Oscar has been on the bench most of tonight with foul trouble. That’s better saved for the UK thread though. OU is giving the Cats a game.

[Mutaman]

I could get to enjoy this Shaka fellow. Bring on those Bonnies!

[Assembly Hall]

I could get to enjoy this Shaka fellow. Bring on those Bonnies!

Shaka has the Warriors looking good.

[Sea Ray]

most of it was classic Huggins....but the line referring to Oscar exiting was not needed.

You mean this?


"We lost an alleged McDonald's All-American because he didn't like the fact that we were making him do things that were hard," said Huggins. "So, we're fine."

I don't see a big deal here. He's basically saying "we don't people here who don't want to be here" That's how I run my business

[Assembly Hall]

Boiler Up!

[adkindo]

You mean this?



I don't see a big deal here. He's basically saying "we don't people here who don't want to be here" That's how I run my business

There is nothing "alleged" about it.....Oscar was a McDonald's All American and suggesting he left because he did not want to do the hard things is an attack on his work ethic. No need to speak negatively about a player on another schools roster. I am sure Huggins would not appreciate other coached commenting negatively about players on his roster.

[adkindo]

In other Huggins news, he really pissed me off on Friday. I am not saying he threw the game, but he clearly took an L for what I think he saw as a "teaching moment". WVU was up 47-35 at the half against Marquette....and Marquette went on something like an 18-1 run in the 2nd half and Huggins refused to call a timeout. It was clear the players were looking over as the run continued, and he just ignored them and allowed the run to continue. WVU dug a hole and could not get out......losing a game they should have won. This WVU team needs as many non con wins as it can accumulate because going .500 in the Big12 is on the table.

[Sea Ray]

Nice bounceback game for my Vols, beating NC easily

[Assembly Hall]

Nice bounceback game for my Vols, beating NC easily

Saved them from dropping out of the polls. Nice win for the Vols.

[adkindo]

Yesterday was the first time WVU looked like the team that I expected this season.....winning off effort and team defense. The shooting was not as good as it should be, but when needed, they put the clamps down on Clemson's offense. Clemson did not score a FG the last 5:51 of the game as WVU used Press Virginia level pressure....except it was intense in the half court instead of full court. If they can play that level of defense, they will win 20+ games and get a solid tournament seeding.....if not, they are not at a level of talent that will even guarantee them a tournament berth.

[adkindo]

Arizona embarrassed Michigan last night in Vegas.

[Assembly Hall]

You are severely underrating Michigan

Hmmmm.

[Assembly Hall]

Arizona embarrassed Michigan last night in Vegas.

As I said earlier in this thread the Wolves lost a lot from last year. It will take a while for this year's team to gel or not. Seems they were indeed over-rated but there is plenty of time to right the ship.

[adkindo]

As I said earlier in this thread the Wolves lost a lot from last year. It will take a while for this year's team to gel or not. Seems they were indeed over-rated but there is plenty of time to right the ship.

I noticed Big10 teams have conference games the 1st/2nd weeks of December.....do they always play conference games that early in the season?

[RiverRat13]

I noticed Big10 teams have conference games the 1st/2nd weeks of December.....do they always play conference games that early in the season?They have been doing it the last few years for sure. Not sure when exactly it started.

[Sea Ray]

Saved them from dropping out of the polls. Nice win for the Vols.

I doubt they'll drop much at all. No shame in losing to Villanova. The Vols have 3 stud freshmen (7 total) they're breaking in. They should learn from Villanova

[Sea Ray]

Yesterday was the first time WVU looked like the team that I expected this season.....winning off effort and team defense. The shooting was not as good as it should be, but when needed, they put the clamps down on Clemson's offense. Clemson did not score a FG the last 5:51 of the game as WVU used Press Virginia level pressure....except it was intense in the half court instead of full court. If they can play that level of defense, they will win 20+ games and get a solid tournament seeding.....if not, they are not at a level of talent that will even guarantee them a tournament berth.

With Huggins I think you can count on them playing solid defense. However that only gets you so far. To go deep in the tournament you need scorers. My Vols ran into a wall in the tournament due to that last yr and countless UC teams did as well via Huggs and Mick

[Assembly Hall]

They have been doing it the last few years for sure. Not sure when exactly it started.

Started when they went to a 20 game conference schedule.

[Assembly Hall]

I doubt they'll drop much at all. No shame in losing to Villanova. The Vols have 3 stud freshmen (7 total) they're breaking in. They should learn from Villanova

Hopefully they smack those Wildcats, of the Kentucky variety, around a few times this season.

[Sea Ray]

I doubt they'll drop much at all. No shame in losing to Villanova. The Vols have 3 stud freshmen (7 total) they're breaking in. They should learn from Villanova

Tennessee didn't drop at all. #17 in the coaches poll. Up to #15 in the AP. Their beating of UNC caused the Tarheels to drop out though. Speaking of UNC, their fans are now questioning their hiring of Hubert Davis over Wes Miller and I gotta agree. Hubert looked like a deer in the headlights during the game on Sunday. As for Miller, I'd expect his Bearcats to make their way into the polls next week

[cumberlandreds]

Tennessee didn't drop at all. #17 in the coaches poll. Up to #15 in the AP. Their beating of UNC caused the Tarheels to drop out though. Speaking of UNC, their fans are now questioning their hiring of Hubert Davis over Wes Miller and I gotta agree. Hubert looked like a deer in the headlights during the game on Sunday. As for Miller, I'd expect his Bearcats to make their way into the polls next week

I was shocked at Davis hiring. He had never impressed me as a head coach type. I suspect his tenure at UNC will not last as long as Matt Doherty's did. I'm not sure what UNC saw in Davis other than being an ex-UNC player.

[Cyclone792]

Huge win for UC last night against Illinois and another big opportunity against a ranked Arkansas tonight.

I had high hopes for Wes Miller before the season, and so far he's exceeded even those expectations. This team so far is scrappy with very high energy, and it's fun to watch. The kids really seem to like playing for Miller too.

And Miller himself is in a great spot with a newly renovated arena/facilities and soon-to-be headed to the Big 12 which is always one of the top 2 or 3 basketball conferences in the country each year. I just hope Hubert Davis does well enough at UNC cause I do not want Davis to be fired anytime soon.

[Assembly Hall]

Davis better get the Tar Heels to playing some defense. UNC is giving up 83.8 ppg which puts them at #344 out of 358 teams.

[adkindo]

Is Gonzaga as good as they appear to be.....20 points better than the #2 team?

[Assembly Hall]

Is Gonzaga as good as they appear to be.....20 points better than the #2 team?

Maybe the #2 team isn't that good?

[RedTeamGo!]

Is Gonzaga as good as they appear to be.....20 points better than the #2 team?

I think yes, they are.

Timme is basically Bill Walton.

Chet Holmgren might be Kevin Durant

Nemhard is a rock solid college PG

Then they have 5-6 guys that would start for almost every college team in America.

If they don’t win the national title this year I will be shocked. There isn’t a Baylor this year.

[Boston Red]

UCLA also isn't really #2. Their absurd tournament run made everyone forget what a mediocre season they had last year.

I really wanted Xavier to try to hire Wes Miller when they hired Steele. I'm not going to say I'm jealous that UC has him, because I think Steele is coming around, but UC has a good one. And I HATE that. :)

[WVRed]

The Fighting Rick Pitinos of Iona knocked off Alabama today.

[adkindo]

Maybe the #2 team isn't that good?

I said the same after Texas which is why UCLA made me take notice. Another big test tonight against Duke.

- - - Updated - - -


The Fighting Rick Pitinos of Iona knocked off Alabama today.

He is one of the best to ever do it.

[RedTeamGo!]

FLYERS!!!!!!

Lose to Austin Peay, UMASS Lowell, and Lipscomb by 20 points last couple weeks and then beat Miami FL yesterday and #4 Kansas today. Make that make sense.

First win over top 5 ranked opponent since 1984

[jimbo]

FLYERS!!!!!!

Lose to Austin Peay, UMASS Lowell, and Lipscomb by 20 points last couple weeks and then beat Miami FL yesterday and #4 Kansas today. Make that make sense.

First win over top 5 ranked opponent since 1984

Didn't they beat a top 5 Pitt at home during the Gregory years?

They have the second youngest roster in the country, I think what they're going through makes plenty of sense. They're loaded with talent, but young and raw. They're going to have some inexplicable losses along with some wins nobody expected.

I think they've found a floor leader for the next several seasons.....Smith is the real deal, every bit as good as his brother.

[Boston Red]

Seems unlikely to me that Duke can hang with Gonzaga, but here we go. Should be fun.

[Boston Red]

First half didn't disappoint. Gonzaga's offense is so good, so it usually doesn't hurt them, but they're still not a great defensive team. Duke is exploiting that so far. Feels like they should be up by more than three at halftime.

[oregonred]

Great game in Vegas as Duke upsets the Zags. Duke was in control most of the game.

[Assembly Hall]

Beware of Iowa St.?

[adkindo]

Beware of Iowa St.?

They definitely are looking better than projected. I wonder if everyone is sleeping on Baylor. I know they are ranked high, but they do not seem to be getting any real media attention similar to Gonzaga, UCLA, Duke, Purdue, Nova, Kansas and the other top ranked teams.

[Boston Red]

Gonzaga had quite the hangover against Tarleton. Still managed to pull out the win.

[Assembly Hall]

Gonzaga had quite the hangover against Tarleton. Still managed to pull out the win.

Gonzaga doing too much zigging when they should have been zagging.

[WVRed]

Just saw former UK coach Billy Clyde is the head man at Tarletan. Good for him.

[Assembly Hall]

Just saw former UK coach Billy Clyde is the head man at Tarletan. Good for him.

I will drink to that...

[WVRed]

Ohio State comes back from 13 down at halftime to beat no 1 Duke.

[adkindo]

Ohio State comes back from 13 down at halftime to beat no 1 Duke.

Get the feeling this year we are going to return a little towards what I consider normal in college basketball.....where even the best teams accumulate a handful of losses by tournament time. Also feels like we may have more than 2-4 teams with a legit chance in the tournament......at least early on.

[RedTeamGo!]

UM is getting absolutely crushed by UNC. Looks like you were right, AH.

[Assembly Hall]

UM is getting absolutely crushed by UNC. Looks like you were right, AH.

Plenty of time for the Wolves to figure it out. As of now they are just a middling B1G team.

[WVRed]

Kind of a weird time to let your coach go but Maryland and Mark Turgeon are parting ways.

[cumberlandreds]

Kind of a weird time to let your coach go but Maryland and Mark Turgeon are parting ways.

I just saw that. Very strange. No mention of what happened to cause this. Danny Manning is taking over for the rest of the season.

[Assembly Hall]

I just saw that. Very strange. No mention of what happened to cause this. Danny Manning is taking over for the rest of the season.

Lack of tournament success and a rocky start to the season I would presume. I would also add that it appears that he "lost" this year's team.

[schmidty622]

Maryland fan here... yeah I hate to see Turg go but it was time. I think the transfer portal rules really hurt what he tries to do and he's had trouble adapting. He's had a good run and hope he lands on his feet but his teams never really lived up to the promise. Then when you start to lose kids and add kids seemingly at random I can see it being frustrating to the coach.

[WVRed]

Maryland fan here... yeah I hate to see Turg go but it was time. I think the transfer portal rules really hurt what he tries to do and he's had trouble adapting. He's had a good run and hope he lands on his feet but his teams never really lived up to the promise. Then when you start to lose kids and add kids seemingly at random I can see it being frustrating to the coach.

When you consider a lot of the “old guard” coaches are calling it quits over the transfer portal and NIL it speaks volumes. Those that are left basically have to adapt or get out.

Maryland jumping to the Big 10 hurt them too IMO. Not as bad as Nebraska in football but they were more competitive in the ACC.

[schmidty622]

When you consider a lot of the “old guard” coaches are calling it quits over the transfer portal and NIL it speaks volumes. Those that are left basically have to adapt or get out.

Maryland jumping to the Big 10 hurt them too IMO. Not as bad as Nebraska in football but they were more competitive in the ACC.

Yup, nothing negative to say about transfer portal or NIL. It's a necessary step toward fairer treatment of athletes in my opinion. Coaches that can't adapt will leave and that is fine.

I agree on the ACC vs B1G thing too but not because I think the B1G is is better and the Terps can't hang. That's true in Football but not so much basketball in my opinion. ACC is (maybe was) a basketball conference and that held some weight. Since the move everything just seems more muted. Not playing Duke and North Carolina twice a year def takes some energy out of it and I could def see that impacting recruiting.

[Chip R]

Kind of a weird time to let your coach go but Maryland and Mark Turgeon are parting ways.

I remember that dude when he was playing for Kansas in college. Looked like he was about 12.

[Assembly Hall]

Could Turgeon end up at Kansas St.?

[WVRed]

Alabama beat Gonzaga last night in Seattle and it wasn’t as close as the final score would indicate.

Are we overrating the Zags?

[adkindo]

Yesterday was a great day to be a 'Bama fan.....taking out #1 UGA in Football on the same day they beat #3 (Preseason #1) Gonzaga in MBB.

[adkindo]

Alabama beat Gonzaga last night in Seattle and it wasn’t as close as the final score would indicate.

Are we overrating the Zags?

Maybe...but I get the feeling this year may not have any truly dominant teams....or maybe there are several, which kind of means there are none. Some think Purdue may have a chance, but I will not be surprised if we have 4-5 loss #1 Seeds by tournament time.

[WVRed]

Kinda wonder if Penny Hardaway will make it past this season.

Two top recruits in Emoni Bates and Jalen Duren and they’ve lost to two of the worst teams in the SEC.

Then after last night’s game he basically backs up the bus over his players.

[Reds Freak]

Kinda wonder if Penny Hardaway will make it past this season.

Two top recruits in Emoni Bates and Jalen Duren and they’ve lost to two of the worst teams in the SEC.

Then after last night’s game he basically backs up the bus over his players.

How many star players have returned to their alma maters and been successful head coaches? I'm sure there's been some, but it doesn't seem to work out often and makes for some awkward situations.

[WVRed]

How many star players have returned to their alma maters and been successful head coaches? I'm sure there's been some, but it doesn't seem to work out often and makes for some awkward situations.

I know it’s the wrong sport but it’s the same reason I never want Barry Larkin to manage the Reds.

It rarely if ever works out and when it doesn’t it makes it extremely difficult to “part ways “ with that coach or manager.

Penny can recruit but his teams are over glorified AAU teams that self destruct. He can’t coach them.

[Boston Red]

On my way home from Stillwater after watching Xavier win there. OSU isn't very good, but always fun to watch your team win on the road.

[Chip R]

How many star players have returned to their alma maters and been successful head coaches? I'm sure there's been some, but it doesn't seem to work out often and makes for some awkward situations.

I know it's kind of a rhetorical question but I'd like to know the answer. There may have been some back in the old days (40s, 50s and 60s) but none come to mind over the past 50 years. There have been players that coached at their alma maters but they weren't necessarily stars there. And what constitutes successful? Over .500 record? Multiple NCAA appearances? Final Fours? NCAA championships? One I can think of is Norm Stewart at Missouri but I'm not so sure how much of a star he was at Mizzou.

Edit: I just thought of one: Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State. No Final Fours but plenty of NCAA appearances and a very good record. And there's no doubt he was a star at ISU.

[Boston Red]

Patrick Ewing is not dead yet! But I think the end is nigh.

[adkindo]

How many star players have returned to their alma maters and been successful head coaches? I'm sure there's been some, but it doesn't seem to work out often and makes for some awkward situations.

Depends on what you consider successful.....Huggins been to a Final 4, Big East Championship and 5 Sweet 16's in his 14 Seasons @ WVU.

[adkindo]

Kinda wonder if Penny Hardaway will make it past this season.

Two top recruits in Emoni Bates and Jalen Duren and they’ve lost to two of the worst teams in the SEC.

Then after last night’s game he basically backs up the bus over his players.

Double edged sword....if he goes away, many of the elite recruits he gets will likely choose another school.

[Chip R]

Depends on what you consider successful.....Huggins been to a Final 4, Big East Championship and 5 Sweet 16's in his 14 Seasons @ WVU.

Good one.

[WVRed]

Depends on what you consider successful.....Huggins been to a Final 4, Big East Championship and 5 Sweet 16's in his 14 Seasons @ WVU.

Huggins also has a split fanbase because of his tenure as well.

There are fans who are tired of his “my way or the highway” abrasive attitude and those who relish him for it.

If he wasn’t an alum, I doubt he would have lasted as long at WVU as he has. His teams also haven’t been as successful since Jevon Carter left either (although the FF team he mostly inherited from Beilein).


Double edged sword....if he goes away, many of the elite recruits he gets will likely choose another school.

Would you rather win the recruiting rankings every year or win a national championship? It doesn’t necessarily translate to that unless you have a balance, a once in a generation type of talent (Anthony Davis), or both.

As a UK fan watching Penny implode makes me appreciate Calipari although he has slipped some on the recruiting trail. Getting Coach O and Coleman has helped with that though.

[Sea Ray]

Rarely if ever are NBA stars good coaches. Ditto in baseball to a certain extent. Your best managers are guys like Sparky Anderson and Billy Martin, not Ted Williams and Ty Cobb

[adkindo]

Huggins also has a split fanbase because of his tenure as well.

There are fans who are tired of his “my way or the highway” abrasive attitude and those who relish him for it.

If he wasn’t an alum, I doubt he would have lasted as long at WVU as he has. His teams also haven’t been as successful since Jevon Carter left either (although the FF team he mostly inherited from Beilein).



Would you rather win the recruiting rankings every year or win a national championship? It doesn’t necessarily translate to that unless you have a balance, a once in a generation type of talent (Anthony Davis), or both.

As a UK fan watching Penny implode makes me appreciate Calipari although he has slipped some on the recruiting trail. Getting Coach O and Coleman has helped with that though.

Huggins gets criticism from message board fans....the guys that look at every analytic, etc., but he is the most popular man in the state and is the most successful college basketball coach at WVU in modern history. Maybe he would have issues at a blue blood, but he could be from Poland and WVU would never terminate him. Also, the only players on that Final 4 team that played for Beilein was Da'Sean Butler and Wellington Smith.....neither guy started a single game for Beilein.

In regards to Memphis, it is apples and oranges to UK. UK may get better recruits because of Cal, but they are getting blue chip guys no matter who is setting in the coaches chair. Memphis is not getting those guys without Penny.....they could not even get guys from Memphis before he arrived. I agree he has proven to not be a very good coach, but without him they are likely even more irrelevant.

[Boston Red]

Except when they had Calipari, obviously.

[Chip R]

Double edged sword....if he goes away, many of the elite recruits he gets will likely choose another school.

If they are elite they are probably gone after a season to the pros anyway. If they don't play enough they may transfer.

[Revering4Blue]

When you consider a lot of the “old guard” coaches are calling it quits over the transfer portal and NIL it speaks volumes. Those that are left basically have to adapt or get out.

Maryland jumping to the Big 10 hurt them too IMO. Not as bad as Nebraska in football but they were more competitive in the ACC.Until the '19-'20 season - Turgeon's best team, and a team with the potential for a long NCAA run if not for Covid - the program had been largely irrelevant on the National level since the early aughts, including their final decade of ACC membership.
Nevertheless, when you factor in the usual elements that determine job appeal - resources, proximity to talent and fanbase - it's the best, IMHO, B1G hoops job not named Indiana, Ohio State and Michigan. And I only rate Michigan higher due its National brand. The Terps' proximity to talent-laden DC and Baltimore more than compensates for Michigan's on again, off again Detroit pipeline.

In short, the right coach, assuming the Athletic department does not interfere, could have this program easily back to early aughts prominence in relatively little time. They haven't had such a coach since Gary Williams in his prime.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[Revering4Blue]

I know it's kind of a rhetorical question but I'd like to know the answer. There may have been some back in the old days (40s, 50s and 60s) but none come to mind over the past 50 years. There have been players that coached at their alma maters but they weren't necessarily stars there. And what constitutes successful? Over .500 record? Multiple NCAA appearances? Final Fours? NCAA championships? One I can think of is Norm Stewart at Missouri but I'm not so sure how much of a star he was at Mizzou.

Edit: I just thought of one: Fred Hoiberg at Iowa State. No Final Fours but plenty of NCAA appearances and a very good record. And there's no doubt he was a star at ISU.Good calls.

Stewart played for the St. Louis Hawks for one season, so that constitutes a NCAA star, IMO.

As for Hoiberg, I wouldn't be at all shocked if he eventually leads the 'Huskers to the Sweet 16 before the Nebraska football program, regardless of coach, wins another high-profile bowl game.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[WVRed]

Huggins gets criticism from message board fans....the guys that look at every analytic, etc., but he is the most popular man in the state and is the most successful college basketball coach at WVU in modern history. Maybe he would have issues at a blue blood, but he could be from Poland and WVU would never terminate him. Also, the only players on that Final 4 team that played for Beilein was Da'Sean Butler and Wellington Smith.....neither guy started a single game for Beilein.

In regards to Memphis, it is apples and oranges to UK. UK may get better recruits because of Cal, but they are getting blue chip guys no matter who is setting in the coaches chair. Memphis is not getting those guys without Penny.....they could not even get guys from Memphis before he arrived. I agree he has proven to not be a very good coach, but without him they are likely even more irrelevant.

I don’t know if you remember or not but Kentucky recruiting didn’t pick up until Calipari came to Lexington.

Tubby Smith was largely to thank for that. They got occasional five star recruits (Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone, Rajon Rondo, Joe Crawford, Randolph Morris) but most of the roster was players who fit “Tubbyball”.

There were players such as Corey Brewer and Brandon Wright who were 5 star players who grew up wanting to play for UK but Tubby didn’t think they could play in the SEC.

I remember when OJ Mayo was in the 7th grade and played in Ashland Ky and Tubby came to a game. Everyone thought he was there to watch Mayo who was projected to be a top recruit eventually but he was there to watch Ravi Moss from University Heights who ended up being a 4 year player for Kentucky.

Billy Gillespie ran off a five star recruit in his first couple months in Lexington (Alex Legion).

[adkindo]

They got occasional five star recruits (Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Marvin Stone, Rajon Rondo, Joe Crawford, Randolph Morris) but most of the roster was players who fit “Tubbyball”.

bro, you are so spoiled.....that would be an all time great list if they went to WVU! We have had two McDonald's All Americans in the entire history of the event....and one of them now plays for UK. I do not disagree that Cal is a recruiting animal.....but even Cal is not getting 3-4 Five Stars a year.....maybe not even 1-2 if he is coaching at WVU. UK is the biggest brand in college basketball.

[adkindo]

So Texas Southern won their first game of the season.....by knocking off #20 Florida!

I had to check to be sure, but Shaq's son is on the Texas Southern roster. He is a Freshman and did not play.

[Boston Red]

Didn't just win. Smoked them.

[WVRed]

bro, you are so spoiled.....that would be an all time great list if they went to WVU! We have had two McDonald's All Americans in the entire history of the event....and one of them now plays for UK. I do not disagree that Cal is a recruiting animal.....but even Cal is not getting 3-4 Five Stars a year.....maybe not even 1-2 if he is coaching at WVU. UK is the biggest brand in college basketball.

Cal has NBA credentials and plays a style of basketball (dribble drive motion offense) that showcases talent in top recruits. The NBA development is second to none and Cal could do the same thing at WVU or any college just like he did at Memphis.

He had Xavier Henry and Demarcus Cousins lined up at Memphis before he left and possibly Eric Bledsoe and John Wall if he had stayed.

[Sea Ray]

Didn't just win. Smoked them.


0-7 Texas Southern beat 20th-ranked Florida, 69-54. Since 1980, the previous worst record by any team that defeated an AP-ranked opponent was 0-3 (Louisville over Maryland on Dec. 13, 1980).

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1468020653848735746?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1468020653848735746%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

[Boston Red]

And Louisville was the defending national champs, so....not quite Texas Southern level!

[adkindo]

Cal has NBA credentials and plays a style of basketball (dribble drive motion offense) that showcases talent in top recruits. The NBA development is second to none and Cal could do the same thing at WVU or any college just like he did at Memphis.

He had Xavier Henry and Demarcus Cousins lined up at Memphis before he left and possibly Eric Bledsoe and John Wall if he had stayed.

I did not say he would not recruit better talent....I said 1-2 compared to 0 being the norm currently. As I said, he is known as a recruiting beast, but you can't argue that the UK brand is not an equal part of it. In case I am not coming across correctly....I am not being negative about Cal or UK....the brand has been earned over many decades.

[adkindo]

Didn't just win. Smoked them.

I would not be surprised if Texas Southern plays better as the season continues....they actually look like a pretty talented group that has just not shown much chemistry most of the season.

[RichRed]

JMU beat UVA for the first time in the program’s history, a total of 12 games. JMU led 24-14 at halftime in what was a brutal shooting display; final score was 52-49.

Watch out for the Dukes! (Ok, you probably don’t need to watch out for them.)

[Sea Ray]

JMU beat UVA for the first time in the program’s history, a total of 12 games. JMU led 24-14 at halftime in what was a brutal shooting display; final score was 52-49.

Watch out for the Dukes! (Ok, you probably don’t need to watch out for them.)

Brutal display of shooting was Tennessee vs Texas Tech last night. For ten mins, from 11:30---->1:30 each team scored three points, mostly on foul shots. Tenn had no FGs in that span. My Vols were 6-40 from 3 pts

[Boston Red]

Uconn @ WV should be a good old good one in the Big East/Big XII challenge tonight. The Mountaineers are favored by 2.

[RedTeamGo!]

Dayton Flyers, after making Mali Smith (Schoochie's younger brother/clone) the starter before the Miami (FL) game, is on fire and go into SMU tonight. Will be interesting to see if they keep the hot streak going.

[Boston Red]

Uconn @ WV should be a good old good one in the Big East/Big XII challenge tonight. The Mountaineers are favored by 2.

Certainly competitive, but definitely not easy on the eyes! Good win for WV.

[adkindo]

Certainly competitive, but definitely not easy on the eyes! Good win for WV.

They put up an old Big East type score! WVU was 12-27 from the free throw line and somehow escaped with the win.

[adkindo]

Indiana blows a 2nd half 18 point lead to lose @ Wisconsin. I saw the score early in the 2nd half....then they showed the score with a minute or so left, and I thought it must be a mistake.

[RedTeamGo!]

Indiana blows a 2nd half 18 point lead to lose @ Wisconsin. I saw the score early in the 2nd half....then they showed the score with a minute or so left, and I thought it must be a mistake.

Outscored 39-17 in the 2nd half. Yikes.

[adkindo]

#1 Purdue loses to Rutgers.......#7 Texas loses to #23 Seton Hall

[Todd Gack]

#1 Purdue loses to Rutgers.......#7 Texas loses to #23 Seton Hall

I mean, Purdue did everything right on that last play. Forced him to change direction not once but twice and he still hit it. Can't really get too upset. Just a great play.

[adkindo]

I mean, Purdue did everything right on that last play. Forced him to change direction not once but twice and he still hit it. Can't really get too upset. Just a great play.

Are you are Purdue fan? If so, you are a more rational fan than myself, because I would be upset. Purdue's flaw was being in a 1 possession game with Rutgers.

https://twitter.com/CBBonFOX/status/1469129611409866757

[adkindo]

#17 Iowa State who was picked by the media to finish last in the Big12 continues to roll by crushing Iowa by 20 points.

[Assembly Hall]

Outscored 39-17 in the 2nd half. Yikes.

It was pitiful.

[Assembly Hall]

Are you are Purdue fan? If so, you are a more rational fan than myself, because I would be upset. Purdue's flaw was being in a 1 possession game with Rutgers.

https://twitter.com/CBBonFOX/status/1469129611409866757

I thought the Boilers got a wake up call against Iowa. I guess I was wrong. Their defense has been exposed these last 2 games. My hats off to Rutgers.

[Boston Red]

Maybe Ewing is going to be just fine at Georgetown after all.

[Assembly Hall]

Maybe Ewing is going to be just fine at Georgetown after all.

I wouldn't bet on it.

[Boston Red]

I wouldn't bet on it.

Definitely bought himself some time by winning the Big East Tournament last year. And beating Syracuse always makes the folks in Georgetown happy.

[Assembly Hall]

Go Irish!

[RedTeamGo!]

Kentucky will now beat the Buckeyes by 25

[adkindo]

Go Irish!

Oscar looked dominant tonight for UK, but nobody else could get anything going on offense. Some of it was guys just missed shots, but that often correlates with teams that run their offense through a post scorer. I am not sure the ceiling is high for this UK team if they continue to run their offense through Oscar.....the game has changed, and it is tough to win at a high level now running the offense through the low post.

[WVRed]

Oscar looked dominant tonight for UK, but nobody else could get anything going on offense. Some of it was guys just missed shots, but that often correlates with teams that run their offense through a post scorer. I am not sure the ceiling is high for this UK team if they continue to run their offense through Oscar.....the game has changed, and it is tough to win at a high level now running the offense through the low post.

This.

Kentucky is still playing the same basketball they played five years ago while teams have gotten away from the traditional post game.

It was the right strategy though. Oscar had his way inside and Notre Dame didn’t have any answers for him.

Two problems I see with this years team:

1. Shooting has been abysmal, especially from the perimeter. Kentucky has shooters now but for some reason they lack any consistency.

2. Cupcake schedule after Duke. Cal has adopted the Pitino method of scheduling in Rupp the heavy majority of the early games. Notre Dame and Ohio State are the two road or neutral site games and both will probably be losses.

[Assembly Hall]

Will Kentucky ever play in South Bend again?

[WVRed]

Will Kentucky ever play in South Bend again?

Don’t see why not. The crowd did storm but Kentucky had time to get off the court. Mike Brey was talking to Oscar after the game from what I saw on ESPN.

I’d like to see the Indiana series return but I’d rather it be like the Pitino days (Louisville/Indianapolis). Don’t see Louisville letting UK use the Yum Center or IU agreeing to anything other than home and home.

[adkindo]

This.

Kentucky is still playing the same basketball they played five years ago while teams have gotten away from the traditional post game.

It was the right strategy though. Oscar had his way inside and Notre Dame didn’t have any answers for him.

Two problems I see with this years team:

1. Shooting has been abysmal, especially from the perimeter. Kentucky has shooters now but for some reason they lack any consistency.

2. Cupcake schedule after Duke. Cal has adopted the Pitino method of scheduling in Rupp the heavy majority of the early games. Notre Dame and Ohio State are the two road or neutral site games and both will probably be losses.

This is pure speculation, but Huggins was famous for forcing his offense to run through the big men.....and WVU supposedly had guys that could shoot in practice but could not in games. Once Huggins backed off a little about demanding the ball always get touched in the post, many of those good practice shooters began knocking them down in games. This is the speculation part, but I think a lot of these talented guys come up through high school/AAU not playing a post dominant offense, and it messes with the pace and their rhythm when the ball is forced into the post. They have to find a balance because Oscar needs to be a threat, but UK has too much athleticism and talent on the perimeter to not optimize their abilities. Oscar needs to likely be a decoy as much as the primary offensive player.