Future Collegiate Conference Realignment

[WVRed]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31857539/texas-ad-ross-bjork-speaks-report-texas-oklahoma-want-join-sec

Looks like the SEC might be expanding and the Big 12 might get the nail in the coffin.

[KronoRed]

A&M doing some whining.

Boot little brother out, get Bevo and Boomer/Sooner on board.

[Assembly Hall]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31857539/texas-ad-ross-bjork-speaks-report-texas-oklahoma-want-join-sec

Looks like the SEC might be expanding and the Big 12 might get the nail in the coffin.

If the Big 12 crumbles I would assume other conferences besides the SEC will be expanding as well.

[WVRed]

A&M doing some whining.

Boot little brother out, get Bevo and Boomer/Sooner on board.

It takes 3/4 of the league to approve it.

You know A&M won’t. Would Arkansas, LSU, and Missouri? Not too sure about the Alabama and Mississippi schools.

Could do a pod system as well:

SEC North:
Kentucky
Arkansas
Vanderbilt
Missouri

SEC East:
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
Tennessee

SEC South:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

SEC West:
LSU
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M

[WVRed]

If the Big 12 crumbles I would assume other conferences besides the SEC will be expanding as well.

WVU is chomping at the bit to get into the ACC.

[KronoRed]

It takes 3/4 of the league to approve it.

You know A&M won’t. Would Arkansas, LSU, and Missouri? Not too sure about the Alabama and Mississippi schools.


A&M would be the lone no, the massive pile of cash this will lead to will bring everyone else around.

[Bourgeois Zee]

A&M would be the lone no, the massive pile of cash this will lead to will bring everyone else around.

Yeah. Texas and Oklahoma are two premier programs. The SEC should be tripping all over themselves to sign them up.

That's potentially a billion dollar move for the SEC.

[Slyder]

SEC won't let Texas keep the Longhorn Network. Period.

[KronoRed]

SEC won't let Texas keep the Longhorn Network. Period.

It would folded into the SEC network, both are run by ESPN who will be happy to be free of the money loser the longhorn network is.

[Boston Red]

Has anyone actually seen the Longhorn Network? Are we certain it exists?

[Rojo Rijo]

It takes 3/4 of the league to approve it.

You know A&M won’t. Would Arkansas, LSU, and Missouri? Not too sure about the Alabama and Mississippi schools.

Could do a pod system as well:

SEC North:
Kentucky
Arkansas
Vanderbilt
Missouri

SEC East:
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
Tennessee

SEC South:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

SEC West:
LSU
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M

Mine would be
Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky
Tennessee, Vandy, Miss St, Ole Miss
LSU, Bama, Arkansas, Auburn
Mizzou, A&M, UT, OU

The pods would work great for scheduling but im not sure how they would determine the SEC championship matchup, there could very well be tied teams who didnt play each other. They could have other tie breakers I guess but that wouldnt seem fair.

As for scheduling if they had it like this I would be in favor:

Play 3 games against the other teams in your pod. One year its 2 homes and one away and the other year its 2 away and one home.
Play against another pod on a 3 year rotating basis - Two home / Two Away
The other two games would be based on playing against a team from each of the other two pods you arent playing based on same finishes within the pod (like the NFL). If you finish 2nd then the next year you play the two other teams who finished second. One game would be home, one away.

9 game conference season, one year its 5 home/4 away and the next its 4 home/5 away.

[Assembly Hall]

A&M would be the lone no

Perhaps, you could also have teams leave the SEC?

- - - Updated - - -


WVU is chomping at the bit to get into the ACC.

As they should.

[Assembly Hall]

Has anyone actually seen the Longhorn Network? Are we certain it exists?

I laughed and then I thought...and no, I have never seen the Longhorn Network.

[WVRed]

Perhaps, you could also have teams leave the SEC?

- - - Updated - - -



As they should.


They can throw a fit but they are taking a substantial pay cut if they leave for another conference. The financial boon the conference is going to take would be worth the Texas/A&M drama.

As for WVU, they are going to jump to whatever conference has the best chance to get them to a chance at the Playoff or New Years Six game. I don’t see any conference reciprocating though. If the ACC doesn’t take them they should go back to the American or stay in whatever comes out of the Big 12.

[KronoRed]

Wonder what the big10+4 will do? maybe A&M can go there ;)

[adkindo]

Honestly, I am not overly concerned at this point. I think the ball is rolling, but I doubt the final outcome is as simple as Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC. If I had to wager, I may even lean Texas backs out and goes Indy and Oklahoma takes OK State to the SEC with them. I just can't get my head around why Texas would go to the SEC. Everyone says it is about money and the brand.....but Texas already has the largest athletic budget in the country and a brand larger than any school in the SEC. Also, Texas fans will never accept going 8-4 being about as good as it gets which is what it would be in the SEC. Texas will expect to be treated as special, and there is no way schools like Bama, Florida and Georgia will put up with their diva ways. Finally, one of Texas's complaints about the Big 12 is the markets and how they would get more from playing in SoCal, South Bend and other spotlight markets like ND is able to do as an independent......but now they are going to be happy playing in Starkville, MS, Lexington, KY, and Columbia, SC? Texas makes no sense to me in the SEC....but I think OK and OK State do fit.

From the SEC side, why do schools like Arkansas, Ole Miss, UK, South Carolina, etc. want to add two schools that are just going to beat them every year? I get it is more money, but it is more money for all of the SEC schools....so how does it help the bottom half of the schools climb to relevance with two more superior programs? Finally, the old alliance of Florida, Georgia, Kentucky and South Carolina will no longer have enough votes to veto schools if they expand.....so if they support this expansion, FSU, Clemson, Ga. Tech and U of L will no longer be off the table in future expansion decisions.

Should I be worried as a WVU fan? Maybe, but it is just too early right now. There is too much dust to settle to see how this thing plays out. Some people think the ACC would be an option since they took in U of L. kind of knocking down their door of only high level academic schools....but I am doubtful. WVU has been trying to get into the ACC off and on since they chose Virginia over WVU in 1953...and it just has never happened. Maybe the Big 12 adds Cincy, UCF, BYU and Houston and moves forward earning far less on their next television contract....not the optimal outcome, but the whole P5 identifier goes away under the new 12 team playoff. When WVU was in the Big East in its final years, we were getting about half of the payout as the SEC, but WVU Football was more than relevant during that period.

Change is coming....I just do not think it is the change that most people think from the recent reports.

[adkindo]

Wonder what the big10+4 will do? maybe A&M can go there ;)

I keep hearing that the Big10 would take in Kansas.....but I find it hard to believe anyone would touch Kansas right now. The whole athletic department is under investigation....and it is probably the biggest mess in college athletics right now. I get the Big10 took in Rutgers, but Kansas football is a whole different level of bad at this point.

[adkindo]

It takes 3/4 of the league to approve it.

You know A&M won’t. Would Arkansas, LSU, and Missouri? Not too sure about the Alabama and Mississippi schools.

Could do a pod system as well:

SEC North:
Kentucky
Arkansas
Vanderbilt
Missouri

SEC East:
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
Tennessee

SEC South:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

SEC West:
LSU
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M

No, if Texas goes to the SEC....they need to be grouped with Alabama, Auburn and LSU :)

[adkindo]

I laughed and then I thought...and no, I have never seen the Longhorn Network.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntGICknpD3k

[KronoRed]

Wow...

The Big 12 athletic directors and their university presidents and chancellors held a videoconference on Thursday evening to discuss the possible moves. Both OU and Texas were invited to the meeting but declined to participate in the call, sources said.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31865190/big-12-officials-meet-discuss-possible-departures-oklahoma-texas-sec

Can't even fake it for a zoom call

[Assembly Hall]

I keep hearing that the Big10 would take in Kansas.....but I find it hard to believe anyone would touch Kansas right now. The whole athletic department is under investigation....and it is probably the biggest mess in college athletics right now. I get the Big10 took in Rutgers, but Kansas football is a whole different level of bad at this point.

We have been down this road before. The B1G took in Rutgers for TV sets. Now if they remain true to that ideology then Kansas isn't on their radar. However there is that AAU thing that the B1G seems to take to heart. Only 3 Big 12 schools are members of the AAU...Texas, Iowa State, and Kansas. It is also worth noting that A&M is a member as well.

[Rojo Rijo]

Ok, so if Oklahoma and Texas go to the SEC then that leaves Baylor, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, TCU, Texas Tech, and West Virginia. Could the B12 survive? Would they stick with 8 teams or would they try and add two more? Houston would seem to be the most logical fit and they could try to keep it regional with SMU or they could stretch out a bit to Memphis or even Cincinnati or UCF.

What if they disband? I mean I really can't imagine that happening but they're losing their top 2 programs in their top revenue generating sport. So for s's & g's lets break down what would happen....

Iowa State and Kansas to the B10 - These are the only two remaining B12 schools in the AAU. Iowa State has the 3rd largest stadium in the B12 behind OU and UT and a large fanbase. Kansas would give the B10 a true blue blood basketball program (though some might consider Mich St. BB). The B1G would have their pick of the litter and Iowa State and Kansas would appear to be the best fits. They would probably push Purdue to the east and put Kansas and Iowa St in the west.

Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma State to the PAC12. The 3 remaining Texas schools would probably want to stay together if possible. This would push the PAC12 to 16 to match with the SEC and the B1G. The P12 would probably split up divisions to have the 4 new schools along with old friend Colorado, then Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State and have the other side with USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Wash, Wash St, Oregon, and Oregon State.

That leaves West Virginia and Kansas State. WVU is feeling like a foster school at this point and Kansas St will suffer from its combined lack of any consistently good football or bball programs, smaller school, and lack of strong TV market. I think the best spot for both would be the AAC (currently with 11 football programs if including Navy - associate member). The AAC has a very large footprint with some schools/programs already in the Big 12 area. They could easily go to divisions and have Kansas St in the west with others like Houston, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and Memphis and place West Virginia with Cincinnati, UCF, ECU, USF, and Temple. That would strengthen the AAC into a 12 team conference with enough firepower in both football and basketball to be respected.

[Assembly Hall]

I am not ready to write the Big 12 off yet. I think Memphis and Cincinnati could slide in for the two possible vacancies. And if I was the conference I wouldn't stop there. Approach Houston and SMU. And BYU is still out there.

[KronoRed]

I don't think there is any chance the Pac12 will touch Baylor and TCU.

[Assembly Hall]

I don't think there is any chance the Pac12 will touch Baylor and TCU.

The PAC 12 better be concerned about keeping their own schools.

[cumberlandreds]

I laughed and then I thought...and no, I have never seen the Longhorn Network.

When I had Verizon Fios for my cable TV I got it. But never watched it for one i am not a Texas fan and two it was not offered as a HD channel. I always thought it was a real waste and I have no idea what ESPN was thinking when they made a school specific channel?

[KronoRed]

The PAC 12 better be concerned about keeping their own schools.

Colorado and Utah to the big10 makes some sense, certainly a bigger splash then Iowa State and Kansas.

[Assembly Hall]

When I had Verizon Fios for my cable TV I got it. But never watched it for one i am not a Texas fan and two it was not offered as a HD channel. I always thought it was a real waste and I have no idea what ESPN was thinking when they made a school specific channel?

Well I got to admit my travels to Texas have been limited. Couple that with when I was there it was not football season. Now I do have extended family in the Austin area but they are Sooner fans...but I can attest that I never watched nor seen the Longhorn Network on any TV I ever watched.

[Assembly Hall]

Colorado and Utah to the big10 makes some sense, certainly a bigger splash then Iowa State and Kansas.

LOL...dunno about that but 'Zona and ASU to the Big 12 makes some sense.

[bucksfan2]

Colorado and Utah to the big10 makes some sense, certainly a bigger splash then Iowa State and Kansas.

Colorado does make some sense, its a little out there geographically, but it would give Nebraska a partner in the west. I don't see what Utah brings other than being another state school.

Expansion is about football and money. The B1G says they want an AAU designation, but I don't know if that is a must if its the right school. Apparently the B1G still feels a little spurned by ND when they thought they were coming into the conference years ago.

I could see them going Colorado, Pitt, and/or Missouri. Maybe dive further east with Virginia and Va Tech. Would UNC band together with Duke and NC State?

The B1G often acts like don't have a clue, but are either the first or second most powerful conference out there. They will react and add if Texas and OU go. I also think the Big 12 will be decimated.

[WVRed]

Source: Texas and Oklahoma - the founding members of the Big 12 - are leaving the league

https://247sports.com/college/texas/LongFormArticle/Texas-Longhorns-Oklahoma-Sooners-leave-Big-12-join-SEC-conference-realignment-Texas-OU-football-Texas-AM-168151146/Amp/

[Chip R]

The Big 12 without Texas and Oklahoma is pointless.

[Assembly Hall]

Kansas...https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sports/kansas-big-ten-conference-call-2021/

[IslandRed]

A few random thoughts:

* When looking at potential dominoes, remember that cord-cutting will be affecting the conference network revenue math. In the last big round of expansion, the primary concern was adding territory (and therefore passive TV income). In the future, the strength of a school's brand may be more important than where it's located.

* Kansas is in bad shape right now (terrible football, NCAA investigation) but that shouldn't stop the B1G from adding them if they think it makes sense. Adding conference members is a long-play decision.

* If the situation turns into every-school-for-itself, I have no idea if the ACC would invite West Virginia. I think they should, but I don't get a vote.

[WVRed]

A few random thoughts:

* When looking at potential dominoes, remember that cord-cutting will be affecting the conference network revenue math. In the last big round of expansion, the primary concern was adding territory (and therefore passive TV income). In the future, the strength of a school's brand may be more important than where it's located.

* Kansas is in bad shape right now (terrible football, NCAA investigation) but that shouldn't stop the B1G from adding them if they think it makes sense. Adding conference members is a long-play decision.

* If the situation turns into every-school-for-itself, I have no idea if the ACC would invite West Virginia. I think they should, but I don't get a vote.

Let’s try a pod system for the ACC:

ACC North:
Pitt
Boston College
Syracuse
WVU

ACC South:
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Miami
Florida State

ACC East:
Duke
UNC
NC State
Wake Forest

ACC West:
Louisville
Cincinnati
Virginia Tech
Virginia

This is assuming Notre Dame gets kicked to the curb.

[Boss-Hog]

Question for the WVU fans: hasn't the ACC already passed on them as recently as the last round of expansion when they ended up in the Big XII? Beyond just the cultural fit, my understanding has always been that WVU to the ACC is a non-starter from the conference's perspective, but I figured you'd know better than what I've read/heard. Personally, I'd love to see UC reunited with them one way or another.

[WVRed]

Question for the WVU fans: hasn't the ACC already passed on them as recently as the last round of expansion when they ended up in the Big XII? Beyond just the cultural fit, my understanding has always been that WVU to the ACC is a non-starter from the conference's perspective, but I figured you'd know better than what I've read/heard. Personally, I'd love to see UC reunited with them one way or another.

The only reason I could see the ACC going for WVU this time and not in years prior is the proverbial arms race to get to 16 teams.

The Big 10 is more likely to stay in the Midwest and if you take AAU into consideration Iowa St and Kansas make the most sense. Kansas has a lot of baggage but basketball would be a significant get.

Unless something surprising happens such as Texas A&M leaving because they are mad over Texas, the SEC isn’t going to take them. That said, the SEC is the best cultural fit for WVU but as we can see they have eyes on the prize. If that happened Oklahoma State would be next I would think.

Which leads to the ACC. I doubt they would take any leftovers from the Big 12 in the central time zone. WVU wasn’t getting in over Syracuse, Pitt, or even Louisville but can you say the same about Cincinnati, Memphis, or UCF? Pitt and the Virginia schools present rivalry opportunities to be renewed. I think IF the ACC does expand they take WVU and UC and go to a pod system like I mentioned.

Honestly, if I were WVU, I’d go back to the American if no other options are available rather than stay in the Tagalong 8. It made sense in the short term but now they are their own little island in a cratering conference. Even if the Big 12 does add more teams SMU, BYU, and Houston will likely be given preference.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I like the idea of pods in the SEC, but can't get to where it makes sense geographically and with biggest rivals.

The nearest I can do is:

Northwest
Missouri
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Southwest
Texas
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
LSU

Southeast
Florida
Georgia
Auburn
Alabama

Northeast
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vandy

[KronoRed]

Did a Missouri fan make that? ;)

[Assembly Hall]

The only reason I could see the ACC going for WVU this time and not in years prior is the proverbial arms race to get to 16 teams.

The Big 10 is more likely to stay in the Midwest and if you take AAU into consideration Iowa St and Kansas make the most sense. Kansas has a lot of baggage but basketball would be a significant get.

Unless something surprising happens such as Texas A&M leaving because they are mad over Texas, the SEC isn’t going to take them. That said, the SEC is the best cultural fit for WVU but as we can see they have eyes on the prize. If that happened Oklahoma State would be next I would think.

Which leads to the ACC. I doubt they would take any leftovers from the Big 12 in the central time zone. WVU wasn’t getting in over Syracuse, Pitt, or even Louisville but can you say the same about Cincinnati, Memphis, or UCF? Pitt and the Virginia schools present rivalry opportunities to be renewed. I think IF the ACC does expand they take WVU and UC and go to a pod system like I mentioned.

Honestly, if I were WVU, I’d go back to the American if no other options are available rather than stay in the Tagalong 8. It made sense in the short term but now they are their own little island in a cratering conference. Even if the Big 12 does add more teams SMU, BYU, and Houston will likely be given preference.

Nice takes.

What if A&M does want to leave the SEC? I would presume the B1G would come calling? Speculation galore and fun times.

[Slyder]

Nice takes.

What if A&M does want to leave the SEC? I would presume the B1G would come calling? Speculation galore and fun times.

If that potential opens up a chance at WVU To SEC then please let it happen and take Missouri while you're at it. These presidents are going to kill the golden goose.

[Assembly Hall]

If that potential opens up a chance at WVU To SEC then please let it happen and take Missouri while you're at it. These presidents are going to kill the golden goose.

Mizzou had their chance to join the B1G and I would gladly take West Virginia in the conference if Nebraska gets kicked out.

[WVRed]

Mizzou had their chance to join the B1G and I would gladly take West Virginia in the conference if Nebraska gets kicked out.

If we’re talking about the ACC not taking WVU from a culture standpoint, then there is no way the B1G is even going to consider them.

At the time of the last expansion too something to keep in mind is that WVU had some stupid fans when they were in the Big East. They cleaned up their act to get into the Big 12 and really haven’t had any issues since.

[WVRed]

I’m taking this as Texas A&M is falling into line:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31876984/texas-athletic-director-ross-bjork-says-aggies-prepared-texas-oklahoma-join-sec

[Assembly Hall]

If we’re talking about the ACC not taking WVU from a culture standpoint, then there is no way the B1G is even going to consider them.

At the time of the last expansion too something to keep in mind is that WVU had some stupid fans when they were in the Big East. They cleaned up their act to get into the Big 12 and really haven’t had any issues since.

I was not. Just voicing my opinion on Nebraska in the B1G.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Did a Missouri fan make that? ;)

No, but it does work out well for them, doesn't it?

Tennessee too (and perhaps Kentucky). At least in football.

The Southwest and Southeast Pod Champions might well be top seeds in an 8-team playoff format, but boy, would it be fun to get there!

In basketball, the pods are pretty balanced currently, with the Northeast likely the toughest pod. I'd guess 16 conference games-- home-and-home within the pod, then home or away with the other conference members?

[KronoRed]

I’m taking this as Texas A&M is falling into line:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31876984/texas-athletic-director-ross-bjork-says-aggies-prepared-texas-oklahoma-join-sec

Yeah someone told them to sit down and shut up and dry their tears with a crap load of money.

[KronoRed]

If they do go with pods they will try and even out traditional powers while also making sure certain rivalries live on, that's why I think one pod will definitely be Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee and Vandy.

[Rojo Rijo]

Another method would be to remain divisions and do away with the annual cross division rivalries. Geographically this would probably mean sending Bama and Auburn to the East. So you’d play a 9 game conference schedule, 7 on your own side and then rotating pods of 2 on the other side. This would allow for the SECCG to be determined as normal.

[Assembly Hall]

Reports are that Okie St. has reached out to the B1G.

[RedTeamGo!]

Reports are that Okie St. has reached out to the B1G.

I get Okla St would not fit academically, but I think that would be a great fit athletics wise.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If they do go with pods they will try and even out traditional powers while also making sure certain rivalries live on, that's why I think one pod will definitely be Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee and Vandy.

Alabama v. Auburn, yes.

Tennessee v. Vandy, maybe, although I think UT would insist a bigger rival is Kentucky (basketball) or Georgia or Florida (football). Vandy probably wouldn't.

I can't see the four of them together, though, because it screws up the geography.

Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Auburn, and Alabama, I get that. The latter two, Florida, and Georgia also make all the sense in the world. But putting the two Tennessee schools with the two Alabama schools means many other schools have much longer distances to travel for weaker conference rivals. Missouri make some sense geographically. South Carolina might as well. But South Carolina is over 850 miles from Missouri, and those schools really don't care much about one another.

One way to fix the geographic issue might be to split the two Tennessee schools. UK, Missouri, Arkansas, and Vandy could be a Northwest Pod. UT, South Carolina, Florida, and Georgia could be a Southeast Pod. Alabama, Auburn, Starkville, and Ole Miss are the Central. Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, and LSU round it out.

[Assembly Hall]

I get Okla St would not fit academically, but I think that would be a great fit athletics wise.

I agree....perhaps that AAU thing doesn't matter anymore?

[Playadlc]

Any shot the SEC goes after some Big Ten schools?

[Assembly Hall]

Any shot the SEC goes after some Big Ten schools?

Rumor has it they have reached out to a couple...

[WVRed]

Another method would be to remain divisions and do away with the annual cross division rivalries. Geographically this would probably mean sending Bama and Auburn to the East. So you’d play a 9 game conference schedule, 7 on your own side and then rotating pods of 2 on the other side. This would allow for the SECCG to be determined as normal.


That would also turn the SEC East into the NBA Western Conference.

Matt Jones from KSR shared the same thing and essentially said if that happened Kentucky should vote against it. I’ve also seen one pod proposal which has Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Auburn, and Bama in the same conference.

I don’t think there is a clear cut solution. Pods are probably the best way to go. Play three teams in your division, four teams from another pod, and maybe two teams set that are rivals. If the rival is in a pod that is being played then sub out another team.

[WVRed]

It takes 3/4 of the league to approve it.

You know A&M won’t. Would Arkansas, LSU, and Missouri? Not too sure about the Alabama and Mississippi schools.

Could do a pod system as well:

SEC North:
Kentucky
Arkansas
Vanderbilt
Missouri

SEC East:
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
Tennessee

SEC South:
Alabama
Auburn
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

SEC West:
LSU
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M

Let’s stick with my pod proposal for this example and UK as the team.

Kentucky plays the following schedule:
@Arkansas
Vanderbilt
@Missouri

Let’s assign them the SEC South Pod:
@Alabama
Auburn
@Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Rivals:
@Tennessee
Florida

If they play the SEC East pod, assign them two other SEC teams.

[WVRed]

I smell BS on this one:

https://www.si.com/college/georgia/news/ohio-state-florida-state-clemson-michigan-sec-

Ohio State, Michigan, Clemson, and Florida State being courted by the SEC to form a 20 team super conference.

I can’t imagine any of this coming to fruition.

[adkindo]

I am not ready to write the Big 12 off yet. I think Memphis and Cincinnati could slide in for the two possible vacancies. And if I was the conference I wouldn't stop there. Approach Houston and SMU. And BYU is still out there.

"If" they stayed together, I assume they would make some big swings. Arizona and Arizona State? Some ACC schools? I do not think it would work, but it is important to keep in mind that the ACC is under a terrible media deal that last forever....so if some schools could get out from the GOR, to make more money...maybe a 1% chance? The Arizona schools would only consider it if they believe their new TV deal will be as bad as their current one.

If none of that worked out and the 8 decided to stay together (which I doubt) the assumption is they would add at least 4 schools from the G5. I think Cincinnati and UCF would be near locks to get an invitation. I think USF would have a good chance as a package with UCF, and then I assume it would be Houston or BYU. Houston may have issues from Baylor, TCU and Texas Tech.

It is complicated though because I assure you that UCF and Cincinnati are not waiting to get invited to a Big12 without Texas and Oklahoma....they are both marketing themselves hoping to jump the line into the ACC. There are some reports out there that the ACC has some interest in UCF.

Staying together would basically only happen if no schools had anywhere to go...but reports suggest WVU is already working the ACC angle, OK State and some Texas schools angling for the PAC12....and Kansas & Iowa State trying to flirt with the Big10.

[adkindo]

The PAC 12 better be concerned about keeping their own schools.

as should the ACC. If the SEC expands to 16 with Texas and Oklahoma, I think it is only a matter of time before they go after Clemson and FSU.

[adkindo]

Question for the WVU fans: hasn't the ACC already passed on them as recently as the last round of expansion when they ended up in the Big XII? Beyond just the cultural fit, my understanding has always been that WVU to the ACC is a non-starter from the conference's perspective, but I figured you'd know better than what I've read/heard. Personally, I'd love to see UC reunited with them one way or another.

Some things have changed....first the facilities are night and day in many ways since the last realignment. WVU was really behind in this area, but would now definitely be superior to many ACC programs. Also, WVU recently obtained a R1 Carnegie Classification for research which was a big con against them in the last round. I do not know what the ACC will do, but they will be evaluating a much improved program than they did last round. On top of that WVU would enter as having the 4th highest attendance (over last 5 years) and 4th/5th highest recruiting (over the last 5 years) in the ACC.

[Boston Red]

It is complicated though because I assure you that UCF and Cincinnati are not waiting to get invited to a Big12 without Texas and Oklahoma....they are both marketing themselves hoping to jump the line into the ACC. There are some reports out there that the ACC has some interest in UCF.



Don't really see any reason for the ACC to take either UC or UCF, and while not ideal for them even a wounded Big XII is 1000% better than the American. But if OU and Texas leave, I cannot see the remaining 8 Big "XII" schools sticking together.

[adkindo]

I like the idea of pods in the SEC, but can't get to where it makes sense geographically and with biggest rivals.

The nearest I can do is:

Northwest
Missouri
Arkansas
Ole Miss
Mississippi State

Southwest
Texas
Oklahoma
Texas A&M
LSU

Southeast
Florida
Georgia
Auburn
Alabama

Northeast
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vandy

I doubt that will be the pods....you have all of the good teams in Southeast and Southwest....they would have to be more evenly distributed based on quality. Bama and Auburn may share a pod....but not with UGA and UF.

[adkindo]

If that potential opens up a chance at WVU To SEC then please let it happen and take Missouri while you're at it. These presidents are going to kill the golden goose.

Personally the only chance I could see WVU going to the SEC is if they wanted to bring in OK State for some reason to make it easier for Oklahoma....then I could see WVU coming in with OK State. It does not appear Oklahoma is going to try to help OK State this time around.

[Chip R]

If they go to pods, I'm not sure how they do conference championship games. Would they have a semi-final and a final? Add that to expanded playoffs, they may end up playing more games than an NFL team would.

[adkindo]

If I was the......

Big10 - I would take a big swing and see if I could pull UNC and UVa. Two high pedigree academic schools with very good all around athletic departments. Personally, I just do not think the response to the SEC adding Texas and Oklahoma can be to add Kansas and Iowa State.

SEC - I would not take my foot off the pedal, and go after Clemson and FSU. They are in the footprint and the two biggest football powerhouse programs left in the footprint outside the SEC.

ACC - I would go after Penn State. Clearly the ACC would have to illustrate that a renegotiated media deal would make them whole (or close to it). You have to be aggressive in this arms race, and I think Penn State is the least attached attractive brand in the Big10. I also think they would not hate renewing some of their traditional rivalries. If you can get Penn State, then of course I would bring in WVU also.

PAC12 - I would try to add all 8 remaining Big12 teams. Set it up as two 10 team divisions (kick over Colorado and Utah) that do not play across divisions during the regular season....only the championship game. There would be some limited cross division play in other sports. It would basically be an alliance masquerading as a conference. The PAC12 has to also be bold, and geography does not provide many options.

Big12 - I would have to at least try to bring in other P5 teams...Arizona schools? If that did not work, I would be looking for a new home....every man for himself. If that does not work, then the eight would need to find the most optimal option moving forward together.

- - - Updated - - -


If they go to pods, I'm not sure how they do conference championship games. Would they have a semi-final and a final? Add that to expanded playoffs, they may end up playing more games than an NFL team would.

I think the SEC....or speculation about the SEC is it would be the 2 highest ranked teams.

[UKFlounder]

I think the Virginia legislature has tied UVA and Va Tech together so that if one changes conferences, the other goes with it. Does the Big 10 want Tech also?

[adkindo]

I think the Virginia legislature has tied UVA and Va Tech together so that if one changes conferences, the other goes with it. Does the Big 10 want Tech also?

No, I do not think Va. Tech is a fit in the Big10....just my opinion. I am not an attorney, but I would have to think that type of legislation is shaky and may not hold up in court if challenged.

[adkindo]

I think the Virginia legislature has tied UVA and Va Tech together so that if one changes conferences, the other goes with it. Does the Big 10 want Tech also?

just based on this article, I do not see any mention of legislation. It was just the Governor who appoints the UVa board members demanding they only vote for expansion if it included Va. Tech....basically under the threat of losing their board seat.

https://sonsofsaturday.com/vt/articles/hokie-history-virginia-techs-path-to-the-acc

[Boston Red]

Can North Carolina handle being in a league in which they are not firmly in charge?

[KronoRed]

Can North Carolina handle being in a league in which they are not firmly in charge?

Maybe, they have always seen themselves as above the unwashed masses in the rest of the conference.

[Rojo Rijo]

If they go to pods, I'm not sure how they do conference championship games. Would they have a semi-final and a final? Add that to expanded playoffs, they may end up playing more games than an NFL team would.

This is what made me change my mind. I think you do two 8 team divisions.

SEC East
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC West
Arkansas
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Missouri
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M

Each team plays 9 conference games per year. 7 against each team in your division, rotating years of 4 home/3 away games and 3 home /4 away games.

The other two games would be rotating pods of two. You do away with the permeant cross division opponent (because it's friggin stupid). These two games would rotate with 1 home/ 1 away and reverse the second time around.

Example: SEC East team 8 year schedule vs. SEC West

YR1 - at Arkansas, vs. LSU
YR2 - at Ole Miss, vs. Mississippi State
YR3 - at Texas, vs. Oklahoma
YR4 - at Texas A&M, vs. Missouri
YR5 - at LSU, vs. Arkansas
YR6 - at Mississippi State, vs. Ole Miss
YR7 - at Oklahoma, vs. Texas
YR8 - at Missouri, vs. Texas A&M

This would allow for the traditional SEC Championship Game to be played between the SEC East Winner and SEC West Winner. It also keeps it to where each SEC team plays every other SEC team at least once every 4 years.

As a UF fan I despise the idea of Alabama and Auburn coming East but geographically it makes the most sense. This allows the SEC to protect almost all of its best rivalry games, outside of some matchups like LSU-Bama and LSU-Auburn but you're picking up the Red River Rivalry, adding LSU showdowns with Texas and Oklahoma, a potential very bitter rivalry in Texas and Texas A&M plus pitting Alabama and Auburn against the likes of Florida and Georgia every year.

[adkindo]

^^I honestly still do not see it....I just do not think UF, UGA, Auburn and Alabama will accept being in the same division. I totally get what you are doing and it seems logical, but I think some internal politics is going to guide the structure. They may even split up Texas and TA&M as a favor to A&M. I personally think the reason they are expected to go to 4 pods is to be able to split up their premium programs as much as possible.

[WVRed]

^^I honestly still do not see it....I just do not think UF, UGA, Auburn and Alabama will accept being in the same division. I totally get what you are doing and it seems logical, but I think some internal politics is going to guide the structure. They may even split up Texas and TA&M as a favor to A&M. I personally think the reason they are expected to go to 4 pods is to be able to split up their premium programs as much as possible.

I also don’t think the non blue bloods will bite even with the money involved in two divisions. In this scenario the SEC East is too loaded.

[Bourgeois Zee]

^^I honestly still do not see it....I just do not think UF, UGA, Auburn and Alabama will accept being in the same division. I totally get what you are doing and it seems logical, but I think some internal politics is going to guide the structure. They may even split up Texas and TA&M as a favor to A&M. I personally think the reason they are expected to go to 4 pods is to be able to split up their premium programs as much as possible.

Could they do two divisions with a north and south?

North
Oklahoma
Arkansas
Missouri
Kentucky
Vandy
Tennessee
South Carolina
Georgia

South
Texas
Texas A&M
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Auburn
Alabama
Florida

Ole Miss is technically more north than Georgia, but I'm guessing UGA is fine eschewing its yearly tilt with Florida in order to take on the weaker division. It's still too tilted to the South too.

[Chip R]

^^I honestly still do not see it....I just do not think UF, UGA, Auburn and Alabama will accept being in the same division. I totally get what you are doing and it seems logical, but I think some internal politics is going to guide the structure. They may even split up Texas and TA&M as a favor to A&M. I personally think the reason they are expected to go to 4 pods is to be able to split up their premium programs as much as possible.

They may not have much of a say in the deal. Assuming this happens, someone is going to have to come up with divisions and not everyone is going to be happy. If a school is not happy with where they are placed, they need to be reminded of the huge windfall that is about to take place and if they don't like it they can join the Big XII or the AAC.

[WVRed]

Could they do two divisions with a north and south?

North
Oklahoma
Arkansas
Missouri
Kentucky
Vandy
Tennessee
South Carolina
Georgia

South
Texas
Texas A&M
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Auburn
Alabama
Florida

Ole Miss is technically more north than Georgia, but I'm guessing UGA is fine eschewing its yearly tilt with Florida in order to take on the weaker division. It's still too tilted to the South too.

This is probably the best one I’ve seen so far in terms of balance. Georgia and Oklahoma in one division and Alabama with Florida and the Texas schools.

It would set up a similar scenario where rivalries could be preserved similar to what exists now. Georgia would lose either the Deep South’s Oldest Rivalry or the Worlds Largest Cocktail Party.

[WVRed]

Latest rumors is USC to the Big 10, among others from the PAC 12.

And the Big 10 is sticking with AAU so Okie Jr is a non starter. Have to think Kansas is out

[Slyder]

Latest rumors is USC to the Big 10, among others from the PAC 12.

And the Big 10 is sticking with AAU so Okie Jr is a non starter. Have to think Kansas is out

Yea might as well just kill all pretense that the well-being of the "student athlete" is anywhere on the agenda of these Athletic Departments.

[Assembly Hall]

Latest rumors is USC to the Big 10, among others from the PAC 12.

And the Big 10 is sticking with AAU so Okie Jr is a non starter. Have to think Kansas is out

Arizona, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Washington, Colorado, Utah, and Oregon are all members of the AAU.

[KronoRed]

And the Big 10 is sticking with AAU so Okie Jr is a non starter. Have to think Kansas is out

Kansas is AAU, and even of the big10/pac12 merge they will need a few schools to fill in the gaps to get to 24/32, Kansas could be one of them.

[Rojo Rijo]

Kansas is AAU, and even of the big10/pac12 merge they will need a few schools to fill in the gaps to get to 24/32, Kansas could be one of them.

If the B1G takes Big12 schools they will be Kansas and Iowa State as those are the two remaining AAU schools in the Big12. Kansas offers the B1G a true blue blood hoops power and Iowa State has one of the largest non-UT and OU fanbases in the Big12 and has the 3rd largest stadium behind UT and OU.

[WVRed]

Kansas is AAU, and even of the big10/pac12 merge they will need a few schools to fill in the gaps to get to 24/32, Kansas could be one of them.

Kansas also has an abhorrent football program and the likelihood of sanctions coming to the basketball program.

If the B1G goes west that doesn’t bode well for them. If they decide to stick Midwest and take from the Tagalong Eight then what Rojo Rijo said above makes sense.

[Boston Red]

KU's terrible football is maybe a benefit to the Michigans and Ohio States of the world. An extra week off in a rugged year, and no one is going to worried about schedule strength for Big Ten teams even with Kansas and Rutgers on the schedule. And that basketball program clearly is one of the few that can consistently draw eyeballs from a nationwide audience.

Or they can drop football and join the Big East!

[adkindo]

Kansas also has an abhorrent football program and the likelihood of sanctions coming to the basketball program.

If the B1G goes west that doesn’t bode well for them. If they decide to stick Midwest and take from the Tagalong Eight then what Rojo Rijo said above makes sense.

wait, you are a UK fan in the SEC and labeling other teams "tagalong"?

[adkindo]

KU's terrible football is maybe a benefit to the Michigans and Ohio States of the world. An extra week off in a rugged year, and no one is going to worried about schedule strength for Big Ten teams even with Kansas and Rutgers on the schedule. And that basketball program clearly is one of the few that can consistently draw eyeballs from a nationwide audience.

Or they can drop football and join the Big East!

Kansas basketball is still basketball....just does not really impact the bottom line. Most survey's suggest that UK basketball is the biggest brand in college basketball.....yet it still does not come close to generating the revenue of UK football.

[Boston Red]

Only if you count TV money, which has really nothing to do with UK. You're going to tell me that UK makes more money from ticket sales, sponsorships, donations, etc. from football than basketball? Unlikely. They're a tagalong in the money train.

[Kinsm]

Latest rumors is USC to the Big 10, among others from the PAC 12.

And the Big 10 is sticking with AAU so Okie Jr is a non starter. Have to think Kansas is out

No program is leaving the pac, not for the big 10 or anywhere else.

In all likelihood the pac and big 10 become 16 school conferences like the SEC will be.

As for who is moving, ticket sales mean nothing. Endowments and Academic standing will matter far more.

If the Big 12 is too survive it’ll have to take teams from the mwc or sun belt.

[Slyder]

Without those anchors for the TV contract the Big 12 is dead. I feel bad for TCU, they're about the only program besides WVU that I cared to watch beyond WVU games because of Coach Patterson. They're not getting a call by Pac or Big and probably end up back in the Group of 5. There isn't a program they could land that will make up for the loss of Texas (you're not convincing ND). I'm sure some would try and make a case that BYU would have a following with the Mormons in the US but I doubt the TV executives care. People are cutting the cord more and more.

And like I said earlier, I'm glad these presidents/ADs are removing all pretenses about "Student Athletes".

[WVRed]

wait, you are a UK fan in the SEC and labeling other teams "tagalong"?

I saw it basically referring to the remaining schools in the Big 12 outside of Oklahoma and Texas. Texas Ten is another one I used to refer to the Big 12 because of UTs influence but that’s kinda gone now.

[adkindo]

I saw it basically referring to the remaining schools in the Big 12 outside of Oklahoma and Texas. Texas Ten is another one I used to refer to the Big 12 because of UTs influence but that’s kinda gone now.

yeah, I came off as kind of a jerk which I regret.....but I have been seeing a lot of NC State, Purdue and Boston College type fans talking about how WVU does not have any value without Texas and Oklahoma. Ok, that is fine....but do they not understand they are also riding coattails to their big checks also.

[adkindo]

No program is leaving the pac, not for the big 10 or anywhere else.

In all likelihood the pac and big 10 become 16 school conferences like the SEC will be.

As for who is moving, ticket sales mean nothing. Endowments and Academic standing will matter far more.

If the Big 12 is too survive it’ll have to take teams from the mwc or sun belt.

I am not sure I agree....I could see the Big10 taking on UCLA, Cal, USC and Stanford....maybe even Oregon and Washington. I think it would be very risky....because those schools would be depending on the Big10 reviving their relevance, and I think the PAC12 teams are far deeper than just getting Ohio State on the schedule. Ask anyone that writes for media sites and they will tell you that PAC12 content just gets no traffic....the interest is just no there right now.

Academic standing and endowments mean a lot to the Big10 because of their research alliance....but it is not driving other movement.

Also, not sure if you meant AAC instead of Sun Belt....but if the Big12 tried to continue, they would not be taking teams from the Sun Belt.

[Kinsm]

Without those anchors for the TV contract the Big 12 is dead. I feel bad for TCU, they're about the only program besides WVU that I cared to watch beyond WVU games because of Coach Patterson. They're not getting a call by Pac or Big and probably end up back in the Group of 5. There isn't a program they could land that will make up for the loss of Texas (you're not convincing ND). I'm sure some would try and make a case that BYU would have a following with the Mormons in the US but I doubt the TV executives care. People are cutting the cord more and more.

And like I said earlier, I'm glad these presidents/ADs are removing all pretenses about "Student Athletes".

I don't think the Big 12 is done per say, but they aren't going to get teams from the ACC, Big 10, PAC, or SEC which are going to essentially be the 4 Powerhouse conferences from 2025 on. They'll have to steal teams from the MWC, MAC, American, CUSA, or SunBelt.

I could easily see this getting much larger....have eight 16 team conferences and some indy's when all is said and done.

SEC add Texas and Oklahoma, lose no one - 16 teams

Big10 adds Kansas and Iowa State. Maybe add Pitt from the ACC or Buff from the MWC or Indys UMass/UConn, lose no one - 16 teams (could attempt even bigger targets like UNC and UV but I doubt it)

Pac cold add New Mexico and Wyoming from the MWC. They'd have 2 of the smallest endowments in the conference along with Oregon State, but basically lock up TV rights in two more states. Gets them to 14 teams, no losses. To get to 16 maybe add Hawaii or one or both of the two Nevada programs or Boise State or Utah State also from the MWC.

If the ACC lost teams to the Big10 like in my hypothetical, they could go after a school like UCincinnati - their endowment and TV market would be quite enticing. West Virginia would probably be further down on their wishlist but could also work as a school going their way. Other possibilities are Temple and ECU or the Florida schools from the American Conference or Old Dominion and UNCC.

What's left of the current Big12 could then poach most of the remaining schools they wanted from the American, CUSA, MWC, or SunBelt. For hypothetical purposes, let's say they lose Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State and want to become a 16 school conference like the others with a tv market primarily in the mid-nation region. They could easily add these 5 from the American Conference: Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis, and 5 more from the CUSA and MWC (let's say UAB, Rice, Colorado St. Utah St., and UTEP) to the remaining 6 schools (Baylor, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, TCU, Texas Tech, and WVU). That'd still be a strong conference, just not on par with the other 4.

SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Houston, UAB, and Rice all have sizeable endowments that would be worth adding.

All of this has been in the pipeline since the last realignment, I hoped they'd all go to 16 teams back then.

[Kinsm]

I am not sure I agree....I could see the Big10 taking on UCLA, Cal, USC and Stanford....maybe even Oregon and Washington.

Not a single school is going to leave the PAC.

[adkindo]

Not a single school is going to leave the PAC.

I am not going to argue because I admit I have no evidence that they would....but can I ask why you are so certain? Their TV deal is lagging and the gap will only grow between them and the SEC/Big10.

I also have to disagree with you about WVU being further down the list for the ACC than Cincinnati. I am not sure the ACC will take WVU, but I would be shocked if they took Cincinnati over WVU.

If the remaining 8 Big12 teams stayed together, I think they would add 4 teams to get back to 12. I think their preference would be among Cincinnati, UCF, USF, BYU, & Houston. I personally do not see them going west for a Boise, but will basically stay within the AAC. Most of the articles I have read lean towards a reconfigured B12 maintaining their autonomous conference status....at least for a while because the other conferences would have vote to revoke it and there is just no real reason for the effort. Their media contract would go down a lot, but being able to maintain their autonomous designation is a major positive. Fwiw, I do not think the B12 will survive....I think ESPN will work very hard to ensure the conference dissolves asap, which could even result in ESPN facilitating new homes for some of the remaining teams.

[Kinsm]

I am not going to argue because I admit I have no evidence that they would....but can I ask why you are so certain? Their TV deal is lagging and the gap will only grow between them and the SEC/Big10.

I also have to disagree with you about WVU being further down the list for the ACC than Cincinnati. I am not sure the ACC will take WVU, but I would be shocked if they took Cincinnati over WVU.

If the remaining 8 Big12 teams stayed together, I think they would add 4 teams to get back to 12. I think their preference would be among Cincinnati, UCF, USF, BYU, & Houston. I personally do not see them going west for a Boise, but will basically stay within the AAC. Most of the articles I have read lean towards a reconfigured B12 maintaining their autonomous conference status....at least for a while because the other conferences would have vote to revoke it and there is just no real reason for the effort. Their media contract would go down a lot, but being able to maintain their autonomous designation is a major positive. Fwiw, I do not think the B12 will survive....I think ESPN will work very hard to ensure the conference dissolves asap, which could even result in ESPN facilitating new homes for some of the remaining teams.

UC has a 1.5B$ endowment, enrolls 46K, and is in a much larger urban area than WVU which has a 0.6B$ endowment, enrolls 26K, and is in a much smaller tv market. Not to mention academically UC is climbing in world/us rankings.

I strongly believe the Big12 can survive, what I see dying is smaller conferences like the American and/or Mountain West.

[Kinsm]

Here is a Hypothetical, after a huge blow-em-up realignment like 10 years ago...

SEC:
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Kentucky
University of Missouri
University of South Carolina
University of Tennessee
Vanderbilt University
University of Alabama
University of Arkansas
Auburn University
Louisiana State University
University of Mississippi
Mississippi State University
Texas A&M University
University of Oklahoma
University of Texas at Austin

BigTen (Changes it's name):
Indiana University
University of Maryland
University of Michigan
Michigan State University
Ohio State University
Pennsylvania State University
Rutgers University
University of Illinois
University of Iowa
University of Minnesota
University of Nebraska
Northwestern University
Purdue University
University of Wisconsin
Iowa State University
University of Kansas

ACC:
Boston College
Clemson University
Florida State University
University of Louisville
North Carolina State University
Syracuse University
Wake Forest University
Duke University
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of Miami
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Pittsburgh
University of Virginia
Virginia Tech
University of Notre Dame (finally becomes a full conference football member)
University of Cincinnati

PAC (Changes it's name):
University of Arizona
Arizona State University
University of California, Berkeley
University of California, Los Angeles
University of Colorado Boulder
University of Oregon
Oregon State University
University of Southern California
Stanford University
University of Utah
University of Washington
Washington State University
University of New Mexico
University of Wyoming
Colorado State University
Utah State University

BigTwelve (Changes it's name):
Baylor University
Kansas State University
Oklahoma State University
Texas Christian University
Texas Tech University
University of Nevada, Reno
University of Nevada, Las Vegas
University of Houston
Southern Methodist University
Tulane University
University of Tulsa
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Rice University
University of Texas at El Paso
University of Texas at San Antonio
University of South Alabama

CUSA:
Florida Atlantic University
Florida International University
Louisiana Tech University
Marshall University
Middle Tennessee State University
University of North Carolina at Charlotte
University of North Texas
Old Dominion University
University of Southern Mississippi
Western Kentucky University
West Virginia University
University of Central Florida
University of Memphis
East Carolina University
University of South Florida
Temple University

MAC:
University of Akron
Bowling Green State University
University at Buffalo
Kent State University
Miami University
Ohio University
Ball State University
Central Michigan University
Eastern Michigan University
Northern Illinois University
University of Toledo
Western Michigan University
University of Connecticut
University of Massachusetts Amherst

SunBelt:
Appalachian State University
Arkansas State University
Coastal Carolina University
Georgia Southern University
Georgia State University
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Louisiana at Monroe
Texas State University
Troy University
New Mexico State University
San Diego State University
San Jose State University
Boise State University
California State University, Fresno

Independents:
Brigham Young University
Liberty University
United States Military Academy
United States Air Force Academy
United States Naval Academy
University of Hawai'I at Manoa

With the bolded teams moving conferences, the Mountain West and the American Athletic Conferences fold-up shop.

Each of the 16 team conferences would be split into 8 team divisions - each team playing the 7 others in their division yearly and 1 or 2 from the other division.

FBS could even grant each of the remaining 8 conference champions to an Elite 8 championship, the power 4 conferences would obviously be seeds 1-4 and be heavily favored.

[KronoRed]

I hope 16 is the end of it, can't help but feel it's heading towards two 32 team super conferences, Pac12/Big10 and ACC/SEC that only play each other with the playoff only for them, and everyone else is left to rot.

[Assembly Hall]

Not a single school is going to leave the PAC.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I hope 16 is the end of it, can't help but feel it's heading towards two 32 team super conferences, Pac12/Big10 and ACC/SEC that only play each other with the playoff only for them, and everyone else is left to rot.

I'm with you here.

I could totally see a Big Four of Midwestern, Eastern, Southern, and Western conferences.

[Chip R]

Kansas also has an abhorrent football program and the likelihood of sanctions coming to the basketball program.


I'll believe that when I see it.

[Assembly Hall]

I'm with you here.

I could totally see a Big Four of Midwestern, Eastern, Southern, and Western conferences.

There is a possibility of schools turning independent?

[schmidty622]

I hope 16 is the end of it, can't help but feel it's heading towards two 32 team super conferences, Pac12/Big10 and ACC/SEC that only play each other with the playoff only for them, and everyone else is left to rot.

NFL Jr.

[WVRed]

yeah, I came off as kind of a jerk which I regret.....but I have been seeing a lot of NC State, Purdue and Boston College type fans talking about how WVU does not have any value without Texas and Oklahoma. Ok, that is fine....but do they not understand they are also riding coattails to their big checks also.

Trust me, the SEC is the same way.

Just to show I can be consistent:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210728/be08a6ec67cf41afe5ec49309837b1a7.jpg

[WVRed]

Here is a Hypothetical, after a huge blow-em-up realignment like 10 years ago...

SEC:
University of Florida
University of Georgia
University of Kentucky
University of Missouri
University of South Carolina
University of Tennessee
Vanderbilt University
University of Alabama
University of Arkansas
Auburn University
Louisiana State University
University of Mississippi
Mississippi State University
Texas A&M University
University of Oklahoma
University of Texas at Austin

BigTen (Changes it's name):
Indiana University
University of Maryland
University of Michigan
Michigan State University
Ohio State University
Pennsylvania State University
Rutgers University
University of Illinois
University of Iowa
University of Minnesota
University of Nebraska
Northwestern University
Purdue University
University of Wisconsin
Iowa State University
University of Kansas

ACC:
Boston College
Clemson University
Florida State University
University of Louisville
North Carolina State University
Syracuse University
Wake Forest University
Duke University
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of Miami
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Pittsburgh
University of Virginia
Virginia Tech
University of Notre Dame (finally becomes a full conference football member)
University of Cincinnati

PAC (Changes it's name):
University of Arizona
Arizona State University
University of California, Berkeley
University of California, Los Angeles
University of Colorado Boulder
University of Oregon
Oregon State University
University of Southern California
Stanford University
University of Utah
University of Washington
Washington State University
University of New Mexico
University of Wyoming
Colorado State University
Utah State University

BigTwelve (Changes it's name):
Baylor University
Kansas State University
Oklahoma State University
Texas Christian University
Texas Tech University
University of Nevada, Reno
University of Nevada, Las Vegas
University of Houston
Southern Methodist University
Tulane University
University of Tulsa
University of Alabama at Birmingham
Rice University
University of Texas at El Paso
University of Texas at San Antonio
University of South Alabama

CUSA:
Florida Atlantic University
Florida International University
Louisiana Tech University
Marshall University
Middle Tennessee State University
University of North Carolina at Charlotte
University of North Texas
Old Dominion University
University of Southern Mississippi
Western Kentucky University
West Virginia University
University of Central Florida
University of Memphis
East Carolina University
University of South Florida
Temple University

MAC:
University of Akron
Bowling Green State University
University at Buffalo
Kent State University
Miami University
Ohio University
Ball State University
Central Michigan University
Eastern Michigan University
Northern Illinois University
University of Toledo
Western Michigan University
University of Connecticut
University of Massachusetts Amherst

SunBelt:
Appalachian State University
Arkansas State University
Coastal Carolina University
Georgia Southern University
Georgia State University
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Louisiana at Monroe
Texas State University
Troy University
New Mexico State University
San Diego State University
San Jose State University
Boise State University
California State University, Fresno

Independents:
Brigham Young University
Liberty University
United States Military Academy
United States Air Force Academy
United States Naval Academy
University of Hawai'I at Manoa

With the bolded teams moving conferences, the Mountain West and the American Athletic Conferences fold-up shop.

Each of the 16 team conferences would be split into 8 team divisions - each team playing the 7 others in their division yearly and 1 or 2 from the other division.

FBS could even grant each of the remaining 8 conference champions to an Elite 8 championship, the power 4 conferences would obviously be seeds 1-4 and be heavily favored.

I’m not even a WVU fan but if they fall all the way to the same conference as Marshall the wheels would be falling off considerably.

That said, WVU will get in the ACC over Cincinnati. I’ll take it a step further and say that they both get in because the ACC will be the next conference to get raided.

Clemson and Florida State to the SEC

North Carolina and Virginia to the B1G

[adkindo]

UC has a 1.5B$ endowment, enrolls 46K, and is in a much larger urban area than WVU which has a 0.6B$ endowment, enrolls 26K, and is in a much smaller tv market. Not to mention academically UC is climbing in world/us rankings.

I strongly believe the Big12 can survive, what I see dying is smaller conferences like the American and/or Mountain West.

This is about brands, and Cincinnati is not on the same level as WVU in regards to football brand. I personally am a fan of what Cincinnati has did in football in recent years, but the truth is it occupies the 3rd slot at best in its own city. We will just have to disagree, and wait to see who is correct.....but I am betting my house that WVU gets a call before Cincinnati.

[Boston Red]

In that major realignment, why does Boise State end up as one of the programs treated worst in this process? They probably have the top non-power conference football brand nationally outside of BYU (not counting Notre Dame for these purposes).

[adkindo]

Clemson and Florida State to the SEC

North Carolina and Virginia to the B1G

I have been saying this is a possibility also....but there has been some pushback in regards how strong the ACC's GOR is....and it would be nearly impossible financially to pluck one of them anytime soon. I have even been reading their GOR is so strong is a major reason that they have no real incentive to add anyone outside a ND.

There is a line of thought out there that seems to be gaining traction that nothing else major will happen soon....and everyone will wait to see in Texas and OK challenge the Big12 GOR in court. Then act based on the outcome of that challenge. If the Big12 GOR goes down in court, speculation is that FSU/Clemson would quickly move to SEC and the BIG10 would grab the two southern jewels known as UVa and UNC.

I go back and forth, but today I am leaning toward everyone holding status quo for the most part for a few years at least.

[Assembly Hall]

This is about brands, and Cincinnati is not on the same level as WVU in regards to football brand. I personally am a fan of what Cincinnati has did in football in recent years, but the truth is it occupies the 3rd slot at best in its own city. We will just have to disagree, and wait to see who is correct.....but I am betting my house that WVU gets a call before Cincinnati.

Believe it or not, I actually have two friends that sent their kids to UC for academic reasons. Not only is UC's brand soaring in football but academically as well.

[adkindo]

In that major realignment, why does Boise State end up as one of the programs treated worst in this process? They probably have the top non-power conference football brand nationally outside of BYU (not counting Notre Dame for these purposes).

If I am WVU....and the Big12 talks of adding Boise State, I threaten to leave for the AAC. WVU, if forced to remain with the other 7 Big12 schools should insist the conference move more toward WVU in footprint with maybe the exception of BYU. Lubbock is as far as we want to go. I think you take the top two brands off the board from the AAC in UCF and Cincinnati. Then you strengthen your presence in FL by adding USF which does not leave UCF on an island. Then the 4th team is probably between Houston and BYU....both are political hot beds within the conference....BYU and their strict religious beliefs and the Texas schools not wanting Houston. A lot of WVU fans do not want Cincy, but this is about survival and you gladly take Cincy because they are legit on both revenue sports. If Houston and BYU are too much trouble, maybe Memphis. Again, if I am WVU, I feel a little emboldened knowing that the conference kind of needs me and OK State to stick around....and I demand the conference move East...not West.

Interestingly, most people think UCF and Cincinnati are the two biggest football draws in the AAC....but I recently read it is actually Navy. The problem there is their other sports is just not at that level, and I would refuse to entertain the old Big East hybrid model even though there could be an argument of adding Army and Navy as football only.

[Boston Red]

If I am WVU....and the Big12 talks of adding Boise State, I threaten to leave for the AAC.

Fair enough, but I'm more referring to the Kinsm scenario that has New Mexico, Colorado State, Utah State, Wyoming, Nevada, UNLV, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, Rice, UTEP, UT-San Antonio, and South Alabama all getting better treatment in realignment than Boise State.

[adkindo]

Believe it or not, I actually have two friends that sent their kids to UC for academic reasons. Not only is UC's brand soaring in football but academically as well.

I have nothing against Cincinnati. I have been more than impressed by their program in recent years.....but the metrics are simply not going to hold when it comes to overall football brand compared to WVU. Also, the WVU rivalries in the ACC are far stronger. Bringing back the Backyard Brawl (WVU-Pitt), Black Diamond Trophy (WVU - Va. Tech) and the Ben Schwartzwalder Trophy (WVU - Syracuse) is worth more than anything that Cincinnati brings to the ACC.

[adkindo]

I am very bias.....but WVU is #15 in all time wins in Division 1 football. The only programs in the B12 that has more wins is Oklahoma and Texas. The only team in the ACC that has more football win than WVU is....Clemson which has 7 more wins. WVU has more college football wins than any team in the nation that does not have a National Championship.

Also, WVU is #20 in all time wins in Division 1 Basketball. The only Big12 teams that have move all time wins is Texas and Kansas. The only ACC teams with more all time wins is UNC, Duke, Syracuse, and Notre Dame.

[Boston Red]

WV doesn't have any reason to worry about UC. WV could end up getting screwed in this latest round of musical chairs, but rest assured that if that happens Cincinnati will be on the outside with them looking in.

[Assembly Hall]

I am very bias.....but WVU is #15 in all time wins in Division 1 football. The only programs in the B12 that has more wins is Oklahoma and Texas. The only team in the ACC that has more football win than WVU is....Clemson which has 7 more wins. WVU has more college football wins than any team in the nation that does not have a National Championship.

Also, WVU is #20 in all time wins in Division 1 Basketball. The only Big12 teams that have move all time wins is Texas and Kansas. The only ACC teams with more all time wins is UNC, Duke, Syracuse, and Notre Dame.

The ACC wasn't squat in football until Florida St. joined. None of their original members have any football cache.

[Boston Red]

The ACC wasn't squat in football until Florida St. joined. None of their original members have any football cache.

Clemson

[Chip R]

There is a possibility of schools turning independent?

I don't see it. The only school that can hold it's own as an independent is Notre Dame. If you're not affiliated with a conference, you're going to get screwed come playoff time as the super conferences will take all the playoff spots. That alone may get ND to join up.

[KronoRed]

I don't see it. The only school that can hold it's own as an independent is Notre Dame. If you're not affiliated with a conference, you're going to get screwed come playoff time as the super conferences will take all the playoff spots. That alone may get ND to join up.

Independents will also have a real tough time getting on peoples schedules and getting on TV.

[Chip R]

Independents will also have a real tough time getting on peoples schedules and getting on TV.

Yeah. You'll probably have to play 9-10 conference games now and the OOC games will have to be against good opponents to keep up the strength of schedule.

[adkindo]

BYU with its religious affiliation is about as good as I think it could be for about 9 of 10 teams if they tried to go independent....better than most of them would do. The key is being big enough to have your own national television contract that will do numbers coast to coast. Some have speculated that Texas could, but like Notre Dame they would not make as much money independent as they can being in a conference.

Scheduling would be a nightmare. Most teams if independent would not provide enough pop for other P5 teams even if they won....and there would be a real probability they may lose. If WVU tried to go independent in 2021....they would probably have a hard time getting 5 P5 teams on their schedule.

[WVRed]

I don't see it. The only school that can hold it's own as an independent is Notre Dame. If you're not affiliated with a conference, you're going to get screwed come playoff time as the super conferences will take all the playoff spots. That alone may get ND to join up.

Texas would have been the only other one and they’re not going that direction.

I look for BYU to join as well.

[adkindo]

gives you an idea of how big the gap is between the SEC and everyone else....almost 2 years old, but per this, the SEC will dominate the sport. Then another huge gap between the Big10 and the PAC12/ACC. After the expansion, the top 25 most valuable programs will include...

SEC - 12 (9 of top 12)
Big10 - 7 (2 of top 10....4 teams between 20-25)
PAC12 - 3
ACC - 2
Independent - 1

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2019/09/12/college-football-most-valuable-clemson-texas-am/?sh=fe2d591a2e7e

[Assembly Hall]

Clemson

They didn't get good until the late 70's. But yeah, they would be an original member with cache.

[WVRed]

I guess we have a new thread now.

Was wondering where everything went. [emoji846]

[Assembly Hall]

I guess we have a new thread now.

Was wondering where everything went. [emoji846]

I had to do a double take! LOL

[WVRed]

Unanimous offer to Texas and Oklahoma to join.

Really thought A&M would hold out.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31913980/sec-unanimously-votes-invite-texas-oklahoma-join-conference

[WVRed]

Interesting comments from Florida States president:

https://247sports.com/college/florida/Article/Florida-State-president-John-Thrasher-does-not-want-Seminoles-football-to-be-left-behind-in-ACC-conference-realignment--168461962/?fbclid=IwAR3tl63zlo2LviwUwuL3qxLD8kbroFiIXwErUesu ZA4QSK47Yx86SuXwdso

I think Florida St and Clemson are next and the Gentleman’s Agreement in the SEC is dead.

[KronoRed]

I'm pretty sure the Gentleman’s Agreement was never real considering how often Florida tried to get fsu into the SEC over the years.

But I wonder now, does ESPN really want the ACC to be destroyed? the big12, heck yeah they did, but they have a lot of money invested in the ACC.

[Assembly Hall]

Interesting comments from Florida States president:

https://247sports.com/college/florida/Article/Florida-State-president-John-Thrasher-does-not-want-Seminoles-football-to-be-left-behind-in-ACC-conference-realignment--168461962/?fbclid=IwAR3tl63zlo2LviwUwuL3qxLD8kbroFiIXwErUesu ZA4QSK47Yx86SuXwdso

I think Florida St and Clemson are next and the Gentleman’s Agreement in the SEC is dead.

What? No Notre Dame? LOL

[Assembly Hall]

I'm pretty sure the Gentleman’s Agreement was never real considering how often Florida tried to get fsu into the SEC over the years.

But I wonder now, does ESPN really want the ACC to be destroyed? the big12, heck yeah they did, but they have a lot of money invested in the ACC.

It would be ironic if the Big 12 survived and the ACC is the conference that ceased to exist.

[Slyder]

It would be ironic if the Big 12 survived and the ACC is the conference that ceased to exist.

If B1G got UNC and UVa. SEC takes Clemson and FSU Neither Big 12 or ACC would survive as they are recognized. I believe one would survive in name but it wouldn't be the same, it look like the old Big East.

With ESPN clearly pulling the strings I don't see the Big 12 existing regardless. ESPN will throw extra money at the remaining ACC schools to get the big payoff from SEC and keep everyone else down on "big time college football".

North
1 BC
2 Syracuse
3 Pitt
4 WVU
5 VA Tech

South
1 NC State
2 Wake
3 Duke
4 Louisville
5 Ga Tech
6 Miami

IF ND wants to stay they get added as #12.

You then add "The Best of the Rest" Cincinnati, UCF/USF, Navy, TCU, OK State, Memphis, etc.

[paintmered]

Interesting comments from Florida States president:

https://247sports.com/college/florida/Article/Florida-State-president-John-Thrasher-does-not-want-Seminoles-football-to-be-left-behind-in-ACC-conference-realignment--168461962/?fbclid=IwAR3tl63zlo2LviwUwuL3qxLD8kbroFiIXwErUesu ZA4QSK47Yx86SuXwdso

I think Florida St and Clemson are next and the Gentleman’s Agreement in the SEC is dead.

How are they going to break the ACC's grant of rights 15 years early without getting a judge to rule it's unenforceable?

[paintmered]

If B1G got UNC and UVa. SEC takes Clemson and FSU Neither Big 12 or ACC would survive as they are recognized. I believe one would survive in name but it wouldn't be the same, it look like the old Big East.

With ESPN clearly pulling the strings I don't see the Big 12 existing regardless. ESPN will throw extra money at the remaining ACC schools to get the big payoff from SEC and keep everyone else down on "big time college football".

North
1 BC
2 Syracuse
3 Pitt
4 WVU
5 VA Tech

South
1 NC State
2 Wake
3 Duke
4 Louisville
5 Ga Tech
6 Miami

IF ND wants to stay they get added as #12.

UC fans would give about anything to be in that conference, with or without ND.

[Slyder]

UC fans would give about anything to be in that conference, with or without ND.

I just threw this together without ND being considered a "full member".
North
BC
Syracuse
Pitt
WVU
Cincinnati
Va Tech
Louisville
NC State

South
Duke
TCU
OK State
Ga Tech
Wake
Miami
USF/UCF/Memphis
USF/UCF/Memphis

If ND stays, move NC State to the south. I don't see Kansas being available (B1G), do I take them for basketball alone? Probably unless they get the step down from death penalty for what they're being investigated?

[Assembly Hall]

If B1G got UNC and UVa. SEC takes Clemson and FSU Neither Big 12 or ACC would survive as they are recognized. I believe one would survive in name but it wouldn't be the same, it look like the old Big East.

With ESPN clearly pulling the strings I don't see the Big 12 existing regardless. ESPN will throw extra money at the remaining ACC schools to get the big payoff from SEC and keep everyone else down on "big time college football".

North
1 BC
2 Syracuse
3 Pitt
4 WVU
5 VA Tech

South
1 NC State
2 Wake
3 Duke
4 Louisville
5 Ga Tech
6 Miami

IF ND wants to stay they get added as #12.

You then add "The Best of the Rest" Cincinnati, UCF/USF, Navy, TCU, OK State, Memphis, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if the B1G makes a play for Ga Tech and/or Pitt.

[adkindo]

I'm pretty sure the Gentleman’s Agreement was never real considering how often Florida tried to get fsu into the SEC over the years.

But I wonder now, does ESPN really want the ACC to be destroyed? the big12, heck yeah they did, but they have a lot of money invested in the ACC.

Every report I have ever read over the last 3 decades has claimed that UF would never consider allowing FSU into the SEC.....so I am wondering why you stated that UF tried to get FSU into the SEC?

[adkindo]

It does not mean a whole lot.....but a little interesting nugget. WVU had their '22 Commits in town yesterday and QB Commitment Nicco Marchiol was on Tony Caridi's (play by play guy for WVU) podcast (titled Three Guys Before the Game). They were just talking about WVU and the class with Nicco, and he may have let something slip. He was talking about how he is always promoting WVU to people back home and he said "especially now that we are about to join a new league". Caridi did not acknowledge he said anything and quickly moved on in the discussion.

Maybe there is a totally different meaning that what it sounded like....maybe he meant the American....do not know, but he seemed excited about the news WVU is about to join a new league.

[KronoRed]

Every report I have ever read over the last 3 decades has claimed that UF would never consider allowing FSU into the SEC.....so I am wondering why you stated that UF tried to get FSU into the SEC?

This is of course from way back, but I've read several news articles from the 70's and 60's about UF sponsoring FSU's admission, maybe that changed after FSU snubbed the SEC in 1992 for the ACC but before that..nope.

This article covers some of it
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/389570-the-seminoles-and-the-sec-a-sordid-love-affair

[UKWhoDey]

The Gentleman's agreement between UK, UF, UGA and USC is real. A&M was never part of that.

[adkindo]

The Gentleman's agreement between UK, UF, UGA and USC is real. A&M was never part of that.

This was my understanding as far back as the 1990's.....Louisville, FSU, Georgia Tech and Clemson's application would be dead on arrival because of this coalition.

[WVRed]

The Gentleman's agreement between UK, UF, UGA and USC is real. A&M was never part of that.

*was

That agreement was in place when Mike Slive was commissioner. Money talks and with NIL becoming a fixture the SEC and other conferences are in survival mode.

The SEC is the beneficiary of Bob Bowlsby being caught with his pants down in the middle of it.

[bucksfan2]

I heard that he Grant of Rights for the ACC pretty much means its a non starter for any league to leave, including ND. The contract goes into the 2030's and also any team that leaves, forfeits their money coming from their new conference.

Iowa St and Kansas do nothing for the B1G. I don't see anyway they get added just the two of them.

B1G stands pat unless they get some West Coast teams on board. If they do that, I think they can go to a "split division" with non football schools pretty much only playing the other side of the conference in tournaments.

[adkindo]

I heard that he Grant of Rights for the ACC pretty much means its a non starter for any league to leave, including ND. The contract goes into the 2030's and also any team that leaves, forfeits their money coming from their new conference.

Iowa St and Kansas do nothing for the B1G. I don't see anyway they get added just the two of them.

B1G stands pat unless they get some West Coast teams on board. If they do that, I think they can go to a "split division" with non football schools pretty much only playing the other side of the conference in tournaments.

I think the ACC's GOR goes until 2034. Yes, unless it can be defeated in court, it would be nearly impossible to exit anytime soon. Of course we do not know if there are any loopholes or caveats within the contract that could be used because I do not think the contracts are public. Many believe that the SEC, Clemson and FSU are hoping that Oklahoma and Texas challenge the Big12 GOR in court to evaluate their moves from the outcome of that legal case. If the Big12 would lose, then the floodgates could open.

[bucksfan2]

I think the ACC's GOR goes until 2034. Yes, unless it can be defeated in court, it would be nearly impossible to exit anytime soon. Of course we do not know if there are any loopholes or caveats within the contract that could be used because I do not think the contracts are public. Many believe that the SEC, Clemson and FSU are hoping that Oklahoma and Texas challenge the Big12 GOR in court to evaluate their moves from the outcome of that legal case. If the Big12 would lose, then the floodgates could open.

Couple of things I found out recently:

Nebraska left the B12 for the stability of the B1G. They didn't want to deal with Texas anymore.

Rumor is that Texas and Oklahoma reached out to the B1G but the B1G was not enamored with Oklahoma's non-football stuff.

OSU for years has played nice in the B1G, they continue to toe the line and use their weight through back channels.

Now just talking out loud, I don't see what is in it for Clemson and FSU. I think Clemson is in a place where they aren't a blue blood and their success is directly tied to a coach. Why would they want to leave a league where they are top dog, have a chance to win the title, and don't have to deal with the SEC schedule. Clemson is one bad coaching hire away from being a middle of the pack ACC team, and probably a bottom feeder in the SEC. Bowden is to FSU and Dabo is to Clemson.

I guess the big question is what does a blue blood or legit football power get by leaving their current conference and joining the SEC? Oklahoma has an easy path to the playoffs that just got markedly harder. Clemson wants to go and play Georgia and Florida every year and then LSU, Bama, Auburn on rotation?

[Chip R]

Couple of things I found out recently:

Nebraska left the B12 for the stability of the B1G. They didn't want to deal with Texas anymore.

Rumor is that Texas and Oklahoma reached out to the B1G but the B1G was not enamored with Oklahoma's non-football stuff.

OSU for years has played nice in the B1G, they continue to toe the line and use their weight through back channels.

Now just talking out loud, I don't see what is in it for Clemson and FSU. I think Clemson is in a place where they aren't a blue blood and their success is directly tied to a coach. Why would they want to leave a league where they are top dog, have a chance to win the title, and don't have to deal with the SEC schedule. Clemson is one bad coaching hire away from being a middle of the pack ACC team, and probably a bottom feeder in the SEC. Bowden is to FSU and Dabo is to Clemson.

I guess the big question is what does a blue blood or legit football power get by leaving their current conference and joining the SEC? Oklahoma has an easy path to the playoffs that just got markedly harder. Clemson wants to go and play Georgia and Florida every year and then LSU, Bama, Auburn on rotation?

Hard to say. Who knows what goes on with the intraconference politics? My guess is FSU and Clemson want to join the SEC for the same reason FSU and Miami joined the ACC. They wanted a bigger deal and were worried about getting left behind. Seems like the SEC wants to make one superconference and keep all that sweet TV money for themselves. There have been rumors about them poaching Michigan and OSU too. If that actually happened the next logical move would to be to go after Notre Dame. If that happened every other conference east of the Rockies would be irrelevant. I doubt if OSU and Michigan leave but who thought OU and Texas would jump?

[Slyder]

Hard to say. Who knows what goes on with the intraconference politics? My guess is FSU and Clemson want to join the SEC for the same reason FSU and Miami joined the ACC. They wanted a bigger deal and were worried about getting left behind. Seems like the SEC wants to make one superconference and keep all that sweet TV money for themselves. There have been rumors about them poaching Michigan and OSU too. If that actually happened the next logical move would to be to go after Notre Dame. If that happened every other conference east of the Rockies would be irrelevant. I doubt if OSU and Michigan leave but who thought OU and Texas would jump?

Texas was the driving force in the Big 12. They didn't want expansion beyond 10 and thus Big 12 never expanded, at least that was the main rumor. Oklahoma is following because they knew what was coming, I'm in awe that the commish got caught with his pants down this badly. Many WVU fans knew this wasn't a long term solution but it was better than getting stuck in the AAC and praying the next round went better. The only real shocking thing for me at least was the SEC were the ones to pull the trigger, I figured the Pac 20 would get the job done with Texas and Oklahoma plus little sisters.

[adkindo]

Couple of things I found out recently:

Nebraska left the B12 for the stability of the B1G. They didn't want to deal with Texas anymore.

Rumor is that Texas and Oklahoma reached out to the B1G but the B1G was not enamored with Oklahoma's non-football stuff.

OSU for years has played nice in the B1G, they continue to toe the line and use their weight through back channels.

Now just talking out loud, I don't see what is in it for Clemson and FSU. I think Clemson is in a place where they aren't a blue blood and their success is directly tied to a coach. Why would they want to leave a league where they are top dog, have a chance to win the title, and don't have to deal with the SEC schedule. Clemson is one bad coaching hire away from being a middle of the pack ACC team, and probably a bottom feeder in the SEC. Bowden is to FSU and Dabo is to Clemson.

I guess the big question is what does a blue blood or legit football power get by leaving their current conference and joining the SEC? Oklahoma has an easy path to the playoffs that just got markedly harder. Clemson wants to go and play Georgia and Florida every year and then LSU, Bama, Auburn on rotation?

just my opinion....no better or worse than anyone else's...

- I have doubts about the Big10 not being interested in Oklahoma and Texas. Just these are two massive historical brands that would have helped close the gap (maybe completely) between the Big10 and SEC.

- I agree Clemson could diminish in brand with a few bad decisions...but have you looked around the ACC? Clemson has a pretty high floor in the ACC and I do not see them dropping to the middle of the ACC. The were probably the 2nd or 3rd best football brand in the ACC before Dabo took over. The ACC has some great schools and brands like UVa and UNC....but in actual quality on the field they were behind the Big12 in recent years.

- Clemson would bounce to the ACC because money is more important than glory for most of these decision makers. I do not mean this to come off as condescending, but you have to take off "The Ohio State University" glasses and view it from Clemson's perspective. Clemson has a very different mission than OSU, does not have the history of excellence as an institution or nearly the financial stability as Ohio State (OSU endowment over $5 Billion....Clemson endowment less than $800 Million). I am just saying that Ohio State has the ability and stability to take positions related to history, academics, etc. that it is often unfair to expect other Universities to take similar positions. None of that is to bash Clemson, they are fine public university that have strong academics and history....just not on the level of Ohio State. Maybe I am a little sensitive when people view WVU in a negative light because of metrics without understanding those numbers can only improve slightly because the mission of the University is very different than Ohio State and even Clemson. WVU simply could never be a Top 100 university without totally redoing the school mission.....but the mission of a public university has to be in the interest of the community it serves, and WV needs WVU and Marshall (their two "major" universities) to have high acceptance rates, etc. Again, none of this is to suggest I do not understand why conferences like the Big10 demand specific academic requirements because there are billions of dollars moving behind the scenes related to research sharing, etc. So while I understand fully why WVU does not belong in the Big10, it annoys me when some Big10 supporters look down on schools like WVU as if the schools are competing in the same environment with similar missions. Sorry about the rabbit hole rant.

[adkindo]

Texas was the driving force in the Big 12. They didn't want expansion beyond 10 and thus Big 12 never expanded, at least that was the main rumor. Oklahoma is following because they knew what was coming, I'm in awe that the commish got caught with his pants down this badly. Many WVU fans knew this wasn't a long term solution but it was better than getting stuck in the AAC and praying the next round went better. The only real shocking thing for me at least was the SEC were the ones to pull the trigger, I figured the Pac 20 would get the job done with Texas and Oklahoma plus little sisters.

Here is how voting worked in the Big 12.....Texas took a position...often Texas Tech, Baylor and TCU would vote however Texas wanted them to vote....then Oklahoma always followed Texas' lead, and Oklahoma State always voted with Oklahoma. WVU, Kansas, Iowa State and Kansas State would realize their votes were worthless, and would just vote with the majority to signal a fictitious unity. Bob Bowlsby was a shill for Texas.

Texas never cared about the Big12 or any other member in the Big12....therefore they would never vote for expansion. They did not care about 3 years down the line....they only cared about today because they knew they could exit at any time. If the Big12 would have added a Cincinnati and UCF 5 years ago, it would still hurt very bad for Texas and Oklahoma to exit the Big12, but it would be better than it is now because at this point odds are Cincinnati and UCF would be viewed similar to a Utah or TCU....legitimate P5 programs.

[adkindo]

I did some profiles on potential Big12 expansion candidates....and I will just paste them here if anyone cares. These are the 11 schools I have heard mentioned in the situation where there is not more major movement, and the remaining 8 stay together and look to add 2-8 teams.

Candidate - BYU
Current Affiliation - Independent
Enrollment - 33,517
TV Market Ranking - 30th (SLC)
US News Ranking - #80
Distance from WVU - 1,920 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 38-26
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 7-13
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 4-8
Bowls in last 5 years - Boca Raton, Hawaii, Famous Idaho Potato, Poinsettia
Endowment - $1.97 Billion

Candidate - Cincinnati
Current Affiliation - AAC
Enrollment - 43,691
TV Market Ranking - 36th
US News Ranking - #143
Distance from WVU - 300 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 39-22
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 5-3
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 4-9
Bowls in last 5 years - Peach, Birmingham, Military
Endowment - $1.60 Billion

Candidate - UCF
Current Affiliation - AAC
Enrollment - 66,183
TV Market Ranking - 17th
US News Ranking - #160
Distance from WVU - 900 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 47-15
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 5-4
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 4-4
Bowls in last 5 years - Cure, Peach, Fiesta, Gasparilla, Boca Raton
Endowment - $155 Million

Candidate - USF
Current Affiliation - AAC
Enrollment - 49,591
TV Market Ranking - 13th
US News Ranking - #103
Distance from WVU - 950 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 33-26
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 6-4
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 1-9
Bowls in last 5 years - Birmingham, Birmingham. Gasparilla
Endowment - $532 Million

Candidate - Memphis
Current Affiliation - AAC
Enrollment - 20,585
TV Market Ranking - 51st
US News Ranking - #258
Distance from WVU - 750 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 46-19
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 3-4
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 5-7
Bowls in last 5 years - Boca Raton, Liberty, Birmingham, Cotton, Montgomery
Endowment - $220 Million

Candidate - Houston
Current Affiliation - AAC
Enrollment - 45,364
TV Market Ranking - 8th
US News Ranking - #176
Distance from WVU - 1,340 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 31-27
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 4-4
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 4-10
Bowls in last 5 years - Las Vegas, Hawaii, Armed Forces
Endowment - $960 Million

Candidate - Boise State
Current Affiliation - MWC
Enrollment - 22,113
TV Market Ranking - 101st
US News Ranking - >#298
Distance from WVU - 2,200 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 48-13
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 4-5
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 4-5
Bowls in last 5 years - Cactus, Las Vegas, Las Vegas
Endowment - $114 Million

Candidate - SMU
Current Affiliation - AAC
Enrollment - 11,739
TV Market Ranking - 5th
US News Ranking - #66
Distance from WVU - 1,205
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 34-26
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 1-5
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 4-9
Bowls in last 5 years - Frisco, Boca Raton
Endowment - $1.50 Billion

Candidate - San Diego State U.
Current Affiliation - MWC
Enrollment - 33,738
TV Market Ranking - 27th
US News Ranking - #143
Distance from WVU - 2,430 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 42-19
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 5-1
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 2-2
Bowls in last 5 years - Las Vegas, Armed Forces, Frisco, New Mexico
Endowment - $353 Million

Candidate - Utah State
Current Affiliation - MWC
Enrollment - 28,118
TV Market Ranking - 30th (SLC)
US News Ranking - #241
Distance from WVU - 1,900 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 28-29
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 0-6
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 0-6
Bowls in last 5 years - Arizona, New Mexico, Frisco
Endowment - $427 Million

Candidate - Colorado State
Current Affiliation - MWC
Enrollment - 33,413
TV Market Ranking - 16th (Denver)
US News Ranking - #153
Distance from WVU - 1,520 miles
Last 5 Years Record (overall) - 22-32
Last 5 Years Record (vs. P5) - 2-7
Last 5 Years Record (vs. ranked teams) - 0-4
Bowls in last 5 years - Famous Idaho Potato, New Mexico
Endowment - $512 Million

[adkindo]

^^^if it was my decision, I would move the footprint east and add 4 schools.

1. UCF
2. Cincinnati
3. USF
4. Memphis

I would have 2 Divisions...

East
WVU
Cincinnati
Memphis
UCF
USF
Iowa State

West

Oklahoma State
Kansas
Kansas State
TCU
Baylor
Texas Tech

I could be convinced to add 2 more and include...

5. Houston
6. SMU

East
WVU
Kansas
Cincinnati
Memphis
UCF
USF
Iowa State

West

Oklahoma State
Kansas State
TCU
Baylor
Texas Tech
SMU
Houston

It is not great...but it could be a fun league that would likely hold onto their autonomous designation for the near future.

[adkindo]

the projected new map would be....

https://i.imgur.com/vQGmdRu.png

[Chip R]

Is Texas the most overrated football program in history?

[Rojo Rijo]

Is Texas the most overrated football program in history?

Notre Dame gets my vote

[Chip R]

Notre Dame gets my vote

I can see that. They have been coasting on their history for the past 20 years or so but at least they have won some nattys all throughout their history. They won them in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 60s, 70s and 80s. Texas has won 2 in the 60s, 1 in the early 70s and one in 2005.

[bucksfan2]

just my opinion....no better or worse than anyone else's...

- I have doubts about the Big10 not being interested in Oklahoma and Texas. Just these are two massive historical brands that would have helped close the gap (maybe completely) between the Big10 and SEC.

- I agree Clemson could diminish in brand with a few bad decisions...but have you looked around the ACC? Clemson has a pretty high floor in the ACC and I do not see them dropping to the middle of the ACC. The were probably the 2nd or 3rd best football brand in the ACC before Dabo took over. The ACC has some great schools and brands like UVa and UNC....but in actual quality on the field they were behind the Big12 in recent years.

- Clemson would bounce to the ACC because money is more important than glory for most of these decision makers. I do not mean this to come off as condescending, but you have to take off "The Ohio State University" glasses and view it from Clemson's perspective. Clemson has a very different mission than OSU, does not have the history of excellence as an institution or nearly the financial stability as Ohio State (OSU endowment over $5 Billion....Clemson endowment less than $800 Million). I am just saying that Ohio State has the ability and stability to take positions related to history, academics, etc. that it is often unfair to expect other Universities to take similar positions. None of that is to bash Clemson, they are fine public university that have strong academics and history....just not on the level of Ohio State. Maybe I am a little sensitive when people view WVU in a negative light because of metrics without understanding those numbers can only improve slightly because the mission of the University is very different than Ohio State and even Clemson. WVU simply could never be a Top 100 university without totally redoing the school mission.....but the mission of a public university has to be in the interest of the community it serves, and WV needs WVU and Marshall (their two "major" universities) to have high acceptance rates, etc. Again, none of this is to suggest I do not understand why conferences like the Big10 demand specific academic requirements because there are billions of dollars moving behind the scenes related to research sharing, etc. So while I understand fully why WVU does not belong in the Big10, it annoys me when some Big10 supporters look down on schools like WVU as if the schools are competing in the same environment with similar missions. Sorry about the rabbit hole rant.

Just a rumor I saw about OU and Texas. I don't know what to think about it, I think the B1G would take Texas in a heartbeat and I think its somewhat odd that Texas and OU would prefer the SEC to the B1G. Texas academically fits better in the B1G, the path to success is far easier in the B1G than it is in the SEC, and they would be big fish #2 in the B1G pond. I will be interested to see what Texas does once Saban leaves Alabama. There has been some interesting discussion on an OSU podcast I listen to about the power brokers in the SEC. Basically the idea is Bama is powerful mainly because Saban is the best coach in the history of football. If Saban leaves, Bama will still hold some sway, but won't be as powerful as they are now. Will Texas begin to throw their weight around?

Prior to these past 7 years or so, Clemson was MSU. One championship years ago, a team that has had some good teams, had a quality following, but mainly played second fiddle in state as well as in their conference. In a decade it wouldn't surprise me if Miami and FSU are the dominant teams in the ACC and Clemson isn't one of them. It also wouldn't surprise me if Clemson remains the top team. Actually, I am not so sure that Clemson isn't Va Tech. Where the fortunes are tied to Beamer and Bud Norris. Crazy thing with Clemson is they haven't recruited to the level of their peers but are winning despite of it. Its been QB and a Venables defense that has kept Clemson dominate over their current run. Is it sustainable going forward, especially in a tougher conference.

Taking off my "Scarlet" colored glasses, if I am Clemson I stay in the ACC. I am not jumping to a tougher conference and am embracing the current state of the ACC. They have it great right now, are the power in the ACC, recruit the same areas as they would in the SEC, why toughen up the competition. From a SEC perspective, what does Clemson bring that they already don't have?

I was in a debate years ago with a buddy of mine about the best team in the entire conference realignment and he made a good argument that WVU was that team. WVU's issue is geography and pretty much that is all. They don't add anything of substance when it comes to what another conference is looking for. I could make an argument that adding Pitt would bring everything that WVU does, and also brings a far bigger market. As a fan, I would much rather see WVU play UC, UL, Pitt, and Va Tech than who they currently play.

FWIW, I think the AAU is a front the B1G is using to be very selective in the schools they choose. I don't think its the end all be all, but they want more of a culture fit.

[adkindo]

FWIW, I think the AAU is a front the B1G is using to be very selective in the schools they choose. I don't think its the end all be all, but they want more of a culture fit.

I do not know the details or even the accuracy....but someone explained it to me that the Big10 athletic conference also serves as an academic and research alliance that in total gets I think Billions of dollars a year in funding for research. Many of the schools work together and share data/research....but much of that money comes via competitive application processes that is often going again Ivy League alliances....top tier Tech school alliances, etc. So they have to ensure the associated schools are of the highest academic standing or there is a chance they could lose out on some of that funding. Again, how accurate that is, I do not know....but it at least made sense.

[adkindo]

Notre Dame gets my vote

I recall a couple years ago, one of the sports media sites did an analysis....mostly based on where a team was ranked in week 1, and where they finished in rankings. I recall Notre Dame was the most over ranked team by a big margin.

[Assembly Hall]

Is Texas the most overrated football program in history?

Yes.

- - - Updated - - -


Notre Dame gets my vote

And your vote would be wrong.

[Assembly Hall]

I recall a couple years ago, one of the sports media sites did an analysis....mostly based on where a team was ranked in week 1, and where they finished in rankings. I recall Notre Dame was the most over ranked team by a big margin.

Meh. Notre Dame is the Duke of college football. Duke, titles aside, has pissed away a lot of #1 seeds.

[adkindo]

Meh. Notre Dame is the Duke of college football. Duke, titles aside, has pissed away a lot of #1 seeds.

I am not really a hater of either...but after Holtz era, Notre Dame had many years of mediocrity....but there have been very few years that we can really call Duke basketball mediocre. The last national title that Notre Dame stole...I mean was awarded was after the 1988 season. Duke basketball has 5 National Championships and 10 Final 4's since the 1988 season.

[adkindo]

fwiw, some Kansas "insiders" are claiming an announcement of KU to the Big10 is within weeks....



Mike Vernon
@M_Vernon

“I am hearing from some people I consider to be pretty reliable that this thing is imminent… I’m not ready to say it for sure, but there’s some smoke coming out of Lawrence right now.”

6:03 PM · Aug 3, 2021

https://twitter.com/M_Vernon/status/1422679607468171265

[WVRed]

Texas was the driving force in the Big 12. They didn't want expansion beyond 10 and thus Big 12 never expanded, at least that was the main rumor. Oklahoma is following because they knew what was coming, I'm in awe that the commish got caught with his pants down this badly. Many WVU fans knew this wasn't a long term solution but it was better than getting stuck in the AAC and praying the next round went better. The only real shocking thing for me at least was the SEC were the ones to pull the trigger, I figured the Pac 20 would get the job done with Texas and Oklahoma plus little sisters.

My understanding is Oklahoma is driving the bus this time. They are fed up with the Big 12s deal with Fox (which ironically is the same as the B1Gs) which involves the “Big Noon” game where kickoffs in Norman are starting at 11 am eastern. Not exactly a good selling point for recruiting.

Texas is leaving because they can. WVU is basically an opportunist. Everything is a chess match at this point.

[Boston Red]

The kickoffs are 12 Eastern but 11 local (Central) time. It does kind of suck to go to one of those games with an 11 am local start time. It requires quite the early start. 7am for me if I'm going to Manhattan for a K-State game, for example.

[adkindo]

My understanding is Oklahoma is driving the bus this time. They are fed up with the Big 12s deal with Fox (which ironically is the same as the B1Gs) which involves the “Big Noon” game where kickoffs in Norman are starting at 11 am eastern. Not exactly a good selling point for recruiting.

Texas is leaving because they can. WVU is basically an opportunist. Everything is a chess match at this point.

The original reporting was OK was the initiator....but recent reporting has flipped that to Texas having discussions and bringing OK in later. I am not telling you that is accurate, only the change in narrative that I have been reading/hearing.

[adkindo]

The kickoffs are 12 Eastern but 11 local (Central) time. It does kind of suck to go to one of those games with an 11 am local start time. It requires quite the early start. 7am for me if I'm going to Manhattan for a K-State game, for example.

Noon games suck....but none of this was a surprise to them as that is the contract they negotiated. It is not like FOX did a bait and switch.

[UKFlounder]

The SEC also has some noon games, sometimes on ESPN, often on SEC network and I think once or twice a year on CBS, do they may still have 1 or 2 noon games, though I guess that might be better than their current schedule



My understanding is Oklahoma is driving the bus this time. They are fed up with the Big 12s deal with Fox (which ironically is the same as the B1Gs) which involves the “Big Noon” game where kickoffs in Norman are starting at 11 am eastern. Not exactly a good selling point for recruiting.

Texas is leaving because they can. WVU is basically an opportunist. Everything is a chess match at this point.

[adkindo]

The SEC also has some noon games, sometimes on ESPN, often on SEC network and I think once or twice a year on CBS, do they may still have 1 or 2 noon games, though I guess that might be better than their current schedule

The PAC12 has literally discussed playing 9AM games because they want that noon timeslot on the East Coast. I doubt they do it, but reporting was it was discussed. Everyone wants that primetime Saturday night timeslot on the network, but since everyone has signed with ESPN and Fox, there are only a couple of those each week. If I am not mistaken the noon time slot usually does better than the 3:30/4:00 timeslot. I know a lot of WVU fan talk about how they use to love night games at Mountaineer Field....and it was a great environment, but they often forget that outside a few special years, we only got those timeslots on Thursday nights in the Big East. It was a net positive for WVU and the Big East, but it was not the Saturday night game.

[Boston Red]

Noon games suck....but none of this was a surprise to them as that is the contract they negotiated. It is not like FOX did a bait and switch.

Noon is bad. 11 am is terrible.

[WVRed]

The SEC also has some noon games, sometimes on ESPN, often on SEC network and I think once or twice a year on CBS, do they may still have 1 or 2 noon games, though I guess that might be better than their current schedule

Note SEC Network. Are you going to watch Vanderbilt-Missouri or Oklahoma-Texas or Ohio State-Michigan.

The SEC Game of the Week is at 3:30 and there are some prime time games if it’s a big enough matchup.

I remember a couple years ago Alabama was complaining because they played like five noon games early in the year I think because of the heat. Everybody they played up to that point was The Citadel or any other weak non conference game.

[UKFlounder]

Oklahoma won’t have a big matchup every week. OU vs USCjr or KY or Vandy or out of conference team could be an SEC network game, though maybe the league will try to avoid it since they’re new.



Note SEC Network. Are you going to watch Vanderbilt-Missouri or Oklahoma-Texas or Ohio State-Michigan.

The SEC Game of the Week is at 3:30 and there are some prime time games if it’s a big enough matchup.

I remember a couple years ago Alabama was complaining because they played like five noon games early in the year I think because of the heat. Everybody they played up to that point was The Citadel or any other weak non conference game.

[WVRed]

Oklahoma won’t have a big matchup every week. OU vs USCjr or KY or Vandy or out of conference team could be an SEC network game, though maybe the league will try to avoid it since they’re new.

I understand that, but there’s a difference in the games being scheduled by the SEC on CBS/ESPN and those by the Big 12/Big 10 with Fox.

If the SEC has a marquee game it’s on either at 3:30 or 8:00. The Big 12 marquee game is kicking off at noon. I think the straw that broke the camels back was Oklahoma and Nebraska renewing their rivalry this upcoming year and Fox giving them a noon start for it.

[UKFlounder]

Ok. I misunderstood. I see your point


I understand that, but there’s a difference in the games being scheduled by the SEC on CBS/ESPN and those by the Big 12/Big 10 with Fox.

If the SEC has a marquee game it’s on either at 3:30 or 8:00. The Big 12 marquee game is kicking off at noon. I think the straw that broke the camels back was Oklahoma and Nebraska renewing their rivalry this upcoming year and Fox giving them a noon start for it.

[Rojo Rijo]

Yes.

- - - Updated - - -



And your vote would be wrong.

Any year they even sniff being decent they get lofted into the upper echelon of teams by the national media only to get violently brought back down to earth. No other team in the country gets juiced up for being barely decent like Notre Dame does. They might not be the most overrated program in history but they are the most overrated program of my lifetime and it isnt close.

[Assembly Hall]

Any year they even sniff being decent they get lofted into the upper echelon of teams by the national media only to get violently brought back down to earth. No other team in the country gets juiced up for being barely decent like Notre Dame does. They might not be the most overrated program in history but they are the most overrated program of my lifetime and it isnt close.

In my lifetime, which spans 54 years, Texas is the front runner.

[Assembly Hall]

Note SEC Network. Are you going to watch Vanderbilt-Missouri or Oklahoma-Texas or Ohio State-Michigan.

The SEC Game of the Week is at 3:30 and there are some prime time games if it’s a big enough matchup.

I remember a couple years ago Alabama was complaining because they played like five noon games early in the year I think because of the heat. Everybody they played up to that point was The Citadel or any other weak non conference game.

How many conference games is the SEC gonna play? 8? 9? 10?

[Rojo Rijo]

How many conference games is the SEC gonna play? 8? 9? 10?

Whether it's pods or divisions it should be 9.

With divisions each team would play the other 7 in their division and a rotating groups of 2 from the other division. The 7 would be 4 home/3 away one year and 3 home/4 away the next year. No permanent cross division games.

With pods each team would play the other 3 teams in their pod (2 home/1 away one year then 1 home/ 2 away the next year), another one of the pods (4 games - 2H/2A) on a 3 year rotation basis and then the other two pods they are not playing they would play the two teams from each division who finished the same spot in the standings as they did the previous year (1H/1A) - just like the NFL does.

I prefer the division model as i'm not sure how they would determine the SECCG participants with the pod system. Also if they did the division model I would hope they would rotate the 2 cross division games and not do two year flips, what I mean by that is if a team had to play say at Texas and vs. Oklahoma I would hope they would then play at Oklahoma and vs. Texas 4 years later and not the following season. In the past the SEC scheduled cross division games on a one in one out basis where you would play at Arkansas and vs. Alabama then at Alabama and vs. Ole Miss, then at Ole Miss and vs. Auburn etc. etc.

[Chip R]

My understanding is Oklahoma is driving the bus this time. They are fed up with the Big 12s deal with Fox (which ironically is the same as the B1Gs) which involves the “Big Noon” game where kickoffs in Norman are starting at 11 am eastern. Not exactly a good selling point for recruiting.

Texas is leaving because they can. WVU is basically an opportunist. Everything is a chess match at this point.

Now watch them have a bunch of 11:00 kickoffs when they get to the SEC. :laugh:

[bucksfan2]

My understanding is Oklahoma is driving the bus this time. They are fed up with the Big 12s deal with Fox (which ironically is the same as the B1Gs) which involves the “Big Noon” game where kickoffs in Norman are starting at 11 am eastern. Not exactly a good selling point for recruiting.

Texas is leaving because they can. WVU is basically an opportunist. Everything is a chess match at this point.

I can get behind this somewhat, but what is OU complaining about? OSU plays their biggest games at noon. Oregon, Michigan, and PSU will all be at noon this season. OU was pretty vocal about playing Nebraska at noon his season, but that is pretty much like playing Kansas this year, you are not going to get a marquee slot.

FWIW I think if the conferences and teams thought this was a big problem, they would push back against it. I get Fox's idea, but does anyone really think OSU vs PSU at night is going to get beat in the ratings? OSU vs Oregon may be the highest ranked game in week to, regardless of slot.

[adkindo]

I can get behind this somewhat, but what is OU complaining about? OSU plays their biggest games at noon. Oregon, Michigan, and PSU will all be at noon this season. OU was pretty vocal about playing Nebraska at noon his season, but that is pretty much like playing Kansas this year, you are not going to get a marquee slot.

FWIW I think if the conferences and teams thought this was a big problem, they would push back against it. I get Fox's idea, but does anyone really think OSU vs PSU at night is going to get beat in the ratings? OSU vs Oregon may be the highest ranked game in week to, regardless of slot.

When the noon kickoff thing is brought up to Big12 media types....at least the few I have heard, they usually snicker. They say yes, the noon kickoffs were not a favorite of Oklahoma's but was not a major factor in them exiting. Reasons 1-9 are related to future $$$$$. Some are giving Oklahoma a pass since the story has turned into it was Texas who initially began conversations with the SEC by suggesting "Oklahoma had little choice once Texas was leaving". Not sure we will ever know the full truth.

[adkindo]

As of August 4, 2021.....place your bets. What will this thing look like in a couple years beyond Texas and Oklahoma leaving for the SEC? Will the Big10 add Kansas and/or Iowa State? Does the PAC12 take on OK State, Texas Tech, and maybe more? Does WVU land in the ACC? Does the remaining 8 stick together and add some of the best G5 teams? Does the ACC get raided by the Big10 and SEC? Does the Big10 go after some PAC12 schools? Does Notre Dame give in and join the ACC?

You get the point....what does it look like when this round of movement comes to a temporary end?


I will go first. I barely lean (like 52%)

- the Big10 adds Iowa State and Kansas
- the ACC adds WVU and UCF or Cincinnati after ND flirts but does not join
- PAC12 agrees to take OK State and Texas Tech
- PAC12 strongly considers TCU and Baylor, but both go to the AAC for now.
- Kansas State goes to the MWC

I go back and forth, but as of today the other 48ish% of me would bet on there is no more major movements and the remaining 8 stay together and add 4 new G5 members. I think the piece together a better media deal than expected at over $20 Million per team per year.

[KronoRed]

I don't see the ACC touching UCF, they bring nothing the ACC doesn't already have.

I think everyone the big12 keeps itself alive like the big east did after Miami left, still on life support but somehow still chugging, they add Cincinnati, UCF, USF and someone else from Houston,Memphis and ECU.

Whenever NBC's deal with ND ends then you'll see more movement.

[Slyder]

Whenever NBC's deal with ND ends then you'll see more movement.

Am I the only one who believes that if this ever does happen you will see total Armageddon and even conferences like B1G will cease to exist as they are and you'll see a greater shift to "Blue Bloods" (OSU, Michigan, Alabama, USC) and "not Blue Bloods" that even schools like Illinois, Mississippi schools, etc will fall victim to the TV money like the Big East and Big 12 before them?

[bucksfan2]

As of August 4, 2021.....place your bets. What will this thing look like in a couple years beyond Texas and Oklahoma leaving for the SEC? Will the Big10 add Kansas and/or Iowa State? Does the PAC12 take on OK State, Texas Tech, and maybe more? Does WVU land in the ACC? Does the remaining 8 stick together and add some of the best G5 teams? Does the ACC get raided by the Big10 and SEC? Does the Big10 go after some PAC12 schools? Does Notre Dame give in and join the ACC?

You get the point....what does it look like when this round of movement comes to a temporary end?


I will go first. I barely lean (like 52%)

- the Big10 adds Iowa State and Kansas
- the ACC adds WVU and UCF or Cincinnati after ND flirts but does not join
- PAC12 agrees to take OK State and Texas Tech
- PAC12 strongly considers TCU and Baylor, but both go to the AAC for now.
- Kansas State goes to the MWC

I go back and forth, but as of today the other 48ish% of me would bet on there is no more major movements and the remaining 8 stay together and add 4 new G5 members. I think the piece together a better media deal than expected at over $20 Million per team per year.

What I want to happen.

The B1G and P12 create some kind of schedule arrangement where games count as "conference games."

The Big 12 adds UC, UCF, BYU (for football), Memphis, Rice, and Houston.

The ACC and SEC stand pat as they currently are situation.

I don't see any value for the B1G to take Kansas and Iowa St. Kansas is a dumpster fire in football, their basketball program is a mess, and Iowa St is, well, Iowa St.

The Big 12 may lose OU and Texas, but are able to add valuable markets in Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati, Orlando and the country wide Mormann market. I think that conference could be better than the last version of the Big East that UC was in. The Big 12 will no longer be able to command a large TV contract, but will be the 5th best league.

ACC's grant of rights makes it damn near impossible for teams to leave that conference. I don't see anything happening there.

[Rojo Rijo]

As of August 4, 2021.....place your bets. What will this thing look like in a couple years beyond Texas and Oklahoma leaving for the SEC? Will the Big10 add Kansas and/or Iowa State? Does the PAC12 take on OK State, Texas Tech, and maybe more? Does WVU land in the ACC? Does the remaining 8 stick together and add some of the best G5 teams? Does the ACC get raided by the Big10 and SEC? Does the Big10 go after some PAC12 schools? Does Notre Dame give in and join the ACC?

You get the point....what does it look like when this round of movement comes to a temporary end?


I will go first. I barely lean (like 52%)

- the Big10 adds Iowa State and Kansas
- the ACC adds WVU and UCF or Cincinnati after ND flirts but does not join
- PAC12 agrees to take OK State and Texas Tech
- PAC12 strongly considers TCU and Baylor, but both go to the AAC for now.
- Kansas State goes to the MWC

I go back and forth, but as of today the other 48ish% of me would bet on there is no more major movements and the remaining 8 stay together and add 4 new G5 members. I think the piece together a better media deal than expected at over $20 Million per team per year.

I'm sticking with what i've been saying

Kansas and Iowa State to the B1G
Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma State to the PAC12
West Virginia and Kansas State to the AAC

[Strikes Out Looking]

The Big 10 requires more than just a football team to join the conference - all of the 14 schools are research universities as well. While money does talk, I can't see the Big 10 taking just any old school just because it has a football program.

[WVRed]

I can get behind this somewhat, but what is OU complaining about? OSU plays their biggest games at noon. Oregon, Michigan, and PSU will all be at noon this season. OU was pretty vocal about playing Nebraska at noon his season, but that is pretty much like playing Kansas this year, you are not going to get a marquee slot.

FWIW I think if the conferences and teams thought this was a big problem, they would push back against it. I get Fox's idea, but does anyone really think OSU vs PSU at night is going to get beat in the ratings? OSU vs Oregon may be the highest ranked game in week to, regardless of slot.

It’s actually 11 am in Norman (central time zone)

The idea of prime time games is more exposure to a national tv audience in that it helps with atmosphere and recruiting. Hard to do that when people are still waking up, getting around, or even working on weekends. Most eyes are in the late afternoon/evenings.

I do see why from Foxs end though. You pretty much know the Mouse House is going to counter any prime time matchup with either the top SEC matchup or Clemson.

[adkindo]

The Big 10 requires more than just a football team to join the conference - all of the 14 schools are research universities as well. While money does talk, I can't see the Big 10 taking just any old school just because it has a football program.

right, which is why there is speculation (although that is all it is) they may consider KU and ISU....two AAU schools that are also R1 (I assume) designated universities. It is why there is also speculation about the Big 10 being interested in the 4 California schools in the PAC12. Getting Stanford, Cal and UCLA would be a wet dream for many Big10 Presidents....and AD's would love USC (who also fits the academic side).

[adkindo]

It’s actually 11 am in Norman (central time zone)

The idea of prime time games is more exposure to a national tv audience in that it helps with atmosphere and recruiting. Hard to do that when people are still waking up, getting around, or even working on weekends. Most eyes are in the late afternoon/evenings.

I do see why from Foxs end though. You pretty much know the Mouse House is going to counter any prime time matchup with either the top SEC matchup or Clemson.

its really not the time slots....they will not care one bit to play Georgia @ 11AM Central on ABC in a couple years. It is about money and exposure. Would you rather have a schedule of home games against Texas Tech, WVU, Kansas and Iowa State......or Georgia, LSU, Texas A&M and Ole Miss? The first group is mostly solid quality football....the second group is mostly premier level college football.

[adkindo]

I don't see the ACC touching UCF, they bring nothing the ACC doesn't already have.

I would have to know what exactly you are referring to, but I can assure you that UCF would be a benefit in the Central Florida market, especially the I4 Corridor (Daytona-Orlando-Tampa). I am not sure how much, but that stretch is Gator Country....and probably UCF is #2. Do not get me wrong, FSU has a Central Florida fan base, but it is small compared to the Gators......and Miami has no major position in Central Florida. It is a massive highly populated land area where UCF and USF have been flooding with alumni in recent decades.

Also, this is not a Gator bias on my part....I actually like FSU and Miami more than the Gators.....but it is undeniable Central Florida is Gator Country. Here is what has to be understood....UCF in 2000 was not a "football" school. Far less students were at the Citrus Bowl on Saturday night to watch them play Toledo or Kent State. There were a ton of Gator and FSU fans that were students at UCF. Over the last couple decades as UCF has become relevant, the rivalry with USF and knocking off some big teams, UCF has became a "football" school and there are very few students that are not primary UCF fans. UCF graduates over 17,000 students a year....dumping many of them into communities on the I4 corridor. That is more than UF, FSU, USF and far more than Miami....so the math is pretty simple. This is a relatively new change in the market when you consider that UCF had 22,000 students in 1992 and have over 71,000 (66,000 full time) students in 2021. UCF is taking over this market, and that will be expedited if they ever get a seat at the big table.

[adkindo]

West Virginia and Kansas State to the AAC

you need to knock that crap off right now :nono:

[Assembly Hall]

The Big 10 requires more than just a football team to join the conference - all of the 14 schools are research universities as well. While money does talk, I can't see the Big 10 taking just any old school just because it has a football program.

Endowment money talks to. And the B1G schools get a ton of it.

[KronoRed]

I would have to know what exactly you are referring to, but I can assure you that UCF would be a benefit in the Central Florida market

It would be a benefit to UCF no question but I don't see how it helps the ACC that much, TV networks aren't as big as they were but they still matter and the ACC network is already on for everyone in Orlando, double down in Orlando or add Cincinnati and get into a whole new market?

Maybe if the ACC they went to 18-20 teams or fsu left.

[adkindo]

It would be a benefit to UCF no question but I don't see how it helps the ACC that much, TV networks aren't as big as they were but they still matter and the ACC network is already on for everyone in Orlando, double down in Orlando or add Cincinnati and get into a whole new market?

Maybe if the ACC they went to 18-20 teams or fsu left.

In regards to the new market, that is information that would need analysis that I do not have. The ACC Network in not available with all cable carriers within the ACC footprint. For example, I think Spectrum NC and Spectrum Central Florida offer the ACC Network, but other Spectrum's along the East Coast do not carry. I do not think any Comcast Xfinity customers have access to the ACC Network. In many ACC markets, the only access, is Dish, Direct TV, Sling, etc. so direct demand is often more important than $ per cable subscriber. Maybe the ACC Network gets worked out at some point, but it is a crap show right now which often requires ACC team fans to change their provider to get access. I know ESPN and Comcast has been in a cold war over the ACC Network for several years, and reports are they are not even close on price point. Like I said, I know some of the complications but I have no real idea how they would impact each market.

Central Florida is a split market between Spectrum and Comcast and the lines are all over the place...as in one subdivision is on Comcast Xfinity and the adjacent subdivision is on Spectrum. UCF and Cincinnati are both complicated because neither are the primary team in their own markets, but my speculation (guess) is UCF is diminishing the gap at a more rapid pace than Cincinnati.

[bucksfan2]

Endowment money talks to. And the B1G schools get a ton of it.

The B1G is impressive, but not as impressive as I thought it would be. Both UM and NW are substantial, OSU is around half of UM and NW, but one of the higher public institutions. They are impressive when you compare to the public schools as opposed to the elite private institutions.

The B1G moves in the past made a lot of sense. Adding blue blood institutions of PSU and Nebraska were really no brainers. I don't think there was the foresight needed for Nebraska, but it made sense at the time. Adding Rutgers and Maryland brought important east coast markets with the expansion of the B1G network. Remember when it started, even the cable provides in Ohio did not carry B1G network.

I think Kansas and Iowa St are the most similar universities out there to what the B1G currently has. However, when you consider what the future of television is going to, what do those two schools offer? In the next decade I think you will see conferences sell streaming services of their games. Iowa St and Kansas offer little in that regard, Kansas may offer basketball, but basketball doesn't drive the broadcast conversation.

I keep hearing Colorado as a legit option, as well as USC, but I just think USC is more a pipe dream. Would USC leave UCLA, Cal, and Stanford? Would it be a football only move? Colorado gives Nebraska a more natural rival, is fairly easy to get to from everywhere west of Columbus, and brings in a big and growing market, as well as being an AAU member.

Any move the B1G makes has to make the conference better, it can't be a reactionary move. I could maybe, maybe talk myself into Iowa St and Colorado, but ISU and KU does nothing for the conference.

[Hoosier Red]

right, which is why there is speculation (although that is all it is) they may consider KU and ISU....two AAU schools that are also R1 (I assume) designated universities. It is why there is also speculation about the Big 10 being interested in the 4 California schools in the PAC12. Getting Stanford, Cal and UCLA would be a wet dream for many Big10 Presidents....and AD's would love USC (who also fits the academic side).

I really think the only schools the B1G expands for are in the Pac-12. Basically every team west of Illinois enjoys the relative recruiting advantage they have over Iowa State created by the fact that to paraphrase Chevy Chase, "They're in the B1G, and you're not." 2) Kansas would undoubtedly love to make the move, but I don't think they're going anywhere without bringing kid brother tKSU along.

[bucksfan2]

I really think the only schools the B1G expands for are in the Pac-12. Basically every team west of Illinois enjoys the relative recruiting advantage they have over Iowa State created by the fact that to paraphrase Chevy Chase, "They're in the B1G, and you're not." 2) Kansas would undoubtedly love to make the move, but I don't think they're going anywhere without bringing kid brother tKSU along.

I have never really head of the ties between Kansas and KSU. However, Iowa St always comes up in discussions mainly because the state already has one team, and those two teams play each other every year.

I think most schools would love to make a move to the B1G. Not only is it a far more stable conference than what is out west, but it also has a bedrock football team that is able to drive media contracts. Even with USC, I don't know how much pull they have with TV contracts considering if they play a game in primetime, most of the country is still asleep.

FWIW I think the Big12 becomes what the Big East was after Miami left. A fringe power conference that is thought of differently, but still holds some sway in BCS (now playoff) discussion.

[Assembly Hall]

The B1G is impressive, but not as impressive as I thought it would be. Both UM and NW are substantial, OSU is around half of UM and NW, but one of the higher public institutions. They are impressive when you compare to the public schools as opposed to the elite private institutions.

The B1G moves in the past made a lot of sense. Adding blue blood institutions of PSU and Nebraska were really no brainers. I don't think there was the foresight needed for Nebraska, but it made sense at the time. Adding Rutgers and Maryland brought important east coast markets with the expansion of the B1G network. Remember when it started, even the cable provides in Ohio did not carry B1G network.

I think Kansas and Iowa St are the most similar universities out there to what the B1G currently has. However, when you consider what the future of television is going to, what do those two schools offer? In the next decade I think you will see conferences sell streaming services of their games. Iowa St and Kansas offer little in that regard, Kansas may offer basketball, but basketball doesn't drive the broadcast conversation.

I keep hearing Colorado as a legit option, as well as USC, but I just think USC is more a pipe dream. Would USC leave UCLA, Cal, and Stanford? Would it be a football only move? Colorado gives Nebraska a more natural rival, is fairly easy to get to from everywhere west of Columbus, and brings in a big and growing market, as well as being an AAU member.

Any move the B1G makes has to make the conference better, it can't be a reactionary move. I could maybe, maybe talk myself into Iowa St and Colorado, but ISU and KU does nothing for the conference.

Kansas does nothing for me either.

[cumberlandreds]

Kansas does nothing for me either.

The only thing it ever did to anyone was Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz. :)

- - - Updated - - -


Kansas does nothing for me either.

The only thing it ever did to anyone was Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz. :)

[Chip R]

I have never really head of the ties between Kansas and KSU. However, Iowa St always comes up in discussions mainly because the state already has one team, and those two teams play each other every year.

I don't know if a potential school can be blackballed but I would bet that there is no way Iowa wants ISU in the B1G. You think A&M kicking about Texas coming to the SEC was something? You ain't heard nothing yet.

[oregonred]

Iowa State. Nice school, nice people. Does nothing for the B1G footprint with Iowa in conference within a small state. Pass

Kansas - Considered only as part of a larger expansion

If I am the B1G I would look to ACC-land for next expansion of 4-6 universities. In order of preference. UNC, then UVA, Ga Tech, Florida State and Notre Dame + Duke. I could be talked into Clemson or Boston College

Also if Oklahoma and Texas called and Warren & Co. said no then they are bigger idiots than I already thought. Which is really saying something

[oregonred]

One thing to note. if it wasn't for the directional names of USF and UCF they would be no brainers to add to a Power 5 conference and maybe even straight up into the BIG in the next decade.

USF in particular is a fast rising academic school (now a top 50 public school) in a top-15 fast growing TV market. UCF is moving up as well and is almost too big too ignore much longer. Change both names to eliminate the directional negative connetation of "Central" and "South". USF is probably ok, but geographically challenged not actually being in "South Florida"

Hold a contest. Change the names of both schools...

[Assembly Hall]

I don't know if a potential school can be blackballed but I would bet that there is no way Iowa wants ISU in the B1G. You think A&M kicking about Texas coming to the SEC was something? You ain't heard nothing yet.

Meh, Iowa and Iowa St. play each other every year.

[Chip R]

Meh, Iowa and Iowa St. play each other every year.

Sure. But they only started the series again in the mid-70s after the politicians were talking about getting involved. And that's when ISU was actually good and Iowa was really bad. Iowa has always looked down on ISU.

[Rojo Rijo]

A&M didnt even put up a fight regarding Texas and the vote was 14-0. All that A&M vs. Texas issue was speculative speak by uninvolved parties. Money talks and every single SEC school knows that adding Texas & Oklahoma will only make future contracts more lucrative. A&Ms biggest issue with Texas back in their B12 days was the Longhorn network. Texas tried to Notre Dame the rest of the conference. I've heard zero credible complaints out of A&M.

As for the B1G additions Iowa State and Kansas are the schools to go there. They are the two remaining AAU schools in the B12 and that alone makes them great fits for the B1G. As for athletics Kansas fits well as they add a true blue blood basketball program to the conference and their football program shouldnt stick out like a sore thumb as much as it did in the B12. What they don't bring on the gridiron they will more than make up for on the hardwood. Iowa State provides what would be the biggest football stadium (once OU and Texas leave) remaining in the B12. They have a great fanbase and Matt Campbell has put the program on the map with 4 straight winning seasons and in 2020 they played in their first conference title game. That's a program on the up and up. Not saying it will happen but it makes the most sense, and Kansas has already turned their ship in that direction.

[adkindo]

One thing to note. if it wasn't for the directional names of USF and UCF they would be no brainers to add to a Power 5 conference and maybe even straight up into the BIG in the next decade.

USF in particular is a fast rising academic school (now a top 50 public school) in a top-15 fast growing TV market. UCF is moving up as well and is almost too big too ignore much longer. Change both names to eliminate the directional negative connetation of "Central" and "South". USF is probably ok, but geographically challenged not actually being in "South Florida"

Hold a contest. Change the names of both schools...

Are we holding one for the University of Southern California also? I am joking, but it is why UCF and USF have pushed hard that their athletic programs be recognized as UCF/USF instead of the University of Central Florida/University of South Florida.

[bucksfan2]

One thing to note. if it wasn't for the directional names of USF and UCF they would be no brainers to add to a Power 5 conference and maybe even straight up into the BIG in the next decade.

USF in particular is a fast rising academic school (now a top 50 public school) in a top-15 fast growing TV market. UCF is moving up as well and is almost too big too ignore much longer. Change both names to eliminate the directional negative connetation of "Central" and "South". USF is probably ok, but geographically challenged not actually being in "South Florida"

Hold a contest. Change the names of both schools...

Here is my question with USF because I don't live there. They may be a fast growing TV market, but what would be the share of their audience if USF played at the same time as UF?

I would imagine if UC and OSU played in the exact same time slot, there would be at least 50% of people watching the OSU game. Now granted it may have to do with network, but

[adkindo]

A&M didnt even put up a fight regarding Texas and the vote was 14-0. All that A&M vs. Texas issue was speculative speak by uninvolved parties. Money talks and every single SEC school knows that adding Texas & Oklahoma will only make future contracts more lucrative. A&Ms biggest issue with Texas back in their B12 days was the Longhorn network. Texas tried to Notre Dame the rest of the conference. I've heard zero credible complaints out of A&M.

As for the B1G additions Iowa State and Kansas are the schools to go there. They are the two remaining AAU schools in the B12 and that alone makes them great fits for the B1G. As for athletics Kansas fits well as they add a true blue blood basketball program to the conference and their football program shouldn't stick out like a sore thumb as much as it did in the B12. What they don't bring on the gridiron they will more than make up for on the hardwood. Iowa State provides what would be the biggest football stadium (once OU and Texas leave) remaining in the B12. They have a great fan base and Matt Campbell has put the program on the map with 4 straight winning seasons and in 2020 they played in their first conference title game. That's a program on the up and up. Not saying it will happen but it makes the most sense, and Kansas has already turned their ship in that direction.

I may have mentioned this before, but the article/analysis that ESPN or one of the major sports web sites ran a few weeks before the Texas/Oklahoma announcement that focused on the success of the Sunbelt compared to the lack of success with CUSA somewhat shifted my paradigm about conference construction. The article highlighted how CUSA and the SunBelt both have similar obstacles in building a conference, but CUSA followed the model that was most popular the last round of expansion.

CUSA cared less about footprint, cultural fit, and rivalries while focusing on the largest brands and markets available. CUSA added schools like Charlotte, two South Florida schools, a group of schools in Texas, etc. It can be argued that CUSA has regressed in relevance since their conference was rebuilt. In contrast, the Sun Belt did not do any of that and they defined specific footprint and went after schools that had similar goals, cultures and either had or would easily form rivalries. The Sun Belt basically made the SEC their footprint because they understood they are recruiting a very different level of athlete than most SEC schools, therefore the recruiting could be fertile. They removed schools like Idaho (yes at one time Idaho was in the Sun Belt), and chose FCS schools transitioning (or had recently transitioned) to FBS over other options because they better fit within their footprint and culture.....schools like Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina and Appalachian State.

On scale, the Sun Belt has been wildly successful and is thriving while CUSA has struggled to maintain even their past relevance. Schools like Troy, App State, Coastal Carolina and Louisiana have all shined at points while receiving national attention. The point of this is we all know that the last round of expansion was all about cable subscribers and markets....the B10 wanted NYC and the DMV so they took less quality football brands in Rutgers and Maryland. It has been very successful for their bottom line financially. The SEC grabbed Texas A&M and Missouri....again overall financially successful. The ACC started everything with going after Miami. Now that the price point per cable subscriber in diminishing by the day, everyone is telling us that the next KPI will be direct demand via streaming.....so it will be less about how many people live in NYC, but how many people across the globe will pay to watch Rutgers play football. While I believe that is accurate, I think there is still a little bit of time before we get there, and right now we are stuck somewhere in between where cable market matters...just less, and on demand viewing matters, just not as much as it will. The big brand is still the safest bet, but there are only about 10 of them nationally that move the needle.

All of this is to say if there is any movement following the Texas and Oklahoma announcement, I think it would be wise to focus on footprint fit, quality of the product, cultural fit, and regional rivalries. All of these drive up interest in the product. It creates the question of is it more important financially to have 15 fans with moderate interest or 9 deeply passionate fans? Some schools like Ohio State can have both, but I think most schools should prefer the latter. My Big10 viewing each year usually includes the Ohio State/Michigan game and the Iowa/Iowa State game regardless of the relevance of the teams rankings in a given year.....the former because it is a Top 5 annual rivalry game, and the latter because it is a very interesting rivalry game early in the season. Outside of those two games, I usually only will watch teams that are highly ranked in the Big10 that could have an impact on the national scene....for example, I enjoyed Indiana last year because they were clearly surging as a program. This entire ramble is to say while I have never thought that a school like Iowa State would be beneficial to the Big10 in the past because of their inferior position within their state to Iowa, I now view it differently. Iowa State would drive interest in some parts of the Big10 beginning with their rivalries and regional similarities to Iowa and Nebraska. The Big10 would not only add the Iowa State fanbase, there is synergy that could drive more passion from the Iowa and Nebraska fan bases. Iowa State is a surging program that likely could continue with B10 affiliation (money) which would allow them to keep Campbell, and this improves the overall strength of the Big10. Iowa State fits perfectly in the footprint, and is a cultural fit athletically and academically in the Big10. At this time and in this environment, I think Iowa State is a near ideal fit for the Big10.

[adkindo]

Here is my question with USF because I don't live there. They may be a fast growing TV market, but what would be the share of their audience if USF played at the same time as UF?

I would imagine if UC and OSU played in the exact same time slot, there would be at least 50% of people watching the OSU game. Now granted it may have to do with network, but

First, this does not answer your question, but I strongly believe that USF is inferior in every way to UCF as an overall product. I would never consider USF for anything unless it was packaged with UCF. USF is currently struggling as an athletic department, while UCF is surging. UCF has a larger more passionate fan base and does better television numbers. Finally, UCF's facilities are night and day superior to USF's. Still, I would always include USF with UCF because I do think they bring unique synergy, and could make a larger dent at a faster pace together on UF's stronghold on the Central Florida market. They have already diminished the gap over the last decade, but UCF has did most of the heavy lifting. As I have said before, together they are spitting out over 30K graduates each year and many of them will reside along the I4 corridor. UF has and will continue to lose primary market share in this region if the two schools can continue to remain relevant.

As for your actual question, I am not sure I think the answer matters as much as you. Per your example, if UF was playing Georgia at the same time as UCF was playing USF on competing television networks (ABC/FOX), I do not think it would be a bad thing at all if UCF/USF pulled half of the I4 Corridor while the other half chose to watch Florida because that is a very large population. It includes the 13th and 17th largest television markets in the country, so I would view anything near half a big win for the network carrying UCF/USF in that scenario.

[oregonred]

The streaming view is interesting long term in place of filling out the map in new markets. I still can't see a scenario where adding a 2nd Iowa program makes any sense whatsoever for the B1G

One interesting thought is that so many residents in Florida are new to the state (and country) that only avid college football followers over the age of 40 have any context that "The U" was a national power in the 80s and 90s let alone that something called the Orange Bowl actually existed as a venue. And the same group at this point barely realizes that FSU was also an annual national power in the 90s.

So for many residents, the pecking order for college football superiority in the state is regarded as UF, UCF, FSU and Miami in that order. The only thing holding back UCF from the next level is membership in a Power 4 conference.

[bucksfan2]

The streaming view is interesting long term in place of filling out the map in new markets. I still can't see a scenario where adding a 2nd Iowa program makes any sense whatsoever for the B1G

One interesting thought is that so many residents in Florida are new to the state (and country) that only avid college football followers over the age of 40 have any context that "The U" was a national power in the 80s and 90s let alone that something called the Orange Bowl actually existed as a venue. And the same group at this point barely realizes that FSU was also an annual national power in the 90s.

So for many residents, the pecking order for college football superiority in the state is regarded as UF, UCF, FSU and Miami in that order. The only thing holding back UCF from the next level is membership in a Power 4 conference.

I could be wrong on this, but the only thing that really makes sense for network TV is live sports. Its really the only programming in which someone will tune in for an entire game, and networks can use the traditional commercials method.

My main question is can the B1G go to an all streaming platform? In a decade will they need cable providers or streaming services, or will they go direct to the consumer. Bally Sports is trying something, although I think its a little high (and hope it fails because I don't really care for them) charging around $26/month for direct access to their app.

I don't think we will ever get to the full a la carte method of broadcasting, but I can see the B1G and SEC go to a full app based product combined with the big national contracts of ABC/CBS/NBC. If it does go full a la carte, the large universities with the largest alumni bases will succeed, and everyone else may struggle.

[adkindo]

I could be wrong on this, but the only thing that really makes sense for network TV is live sports. Its really the only programming in which someone will tune in for an entire game, and networks can use the traditional commercials method.

My main question is can the B1G go to an all streaming platform? In a decade will they need cable providers or streaming services, or will they go direct to the consumer. Bally Sports is trying something, although I think its a little high (and hope it fails because I don't really care for them) charging around $26/month for direct access to their app.

I don't think we will ever get to the full a la carte method of broadcasting, but I can see the B1G and SEC go to a full app based product combined with the big national contracts of ABC/CBS/NBC. If it does go full a la carte, the large universities with the largest alumni bases will succeed, and everyone else may struggle.

at some point in the future, I am sure the Big10 Network could pull off streaming.....but right now they are still making buckets of money off of the channel. The issue is streaming without a major network is nobody has really figured out how to their own operation, infrastructure of people, equipment, etc. while controlling costs. ESPN, FOX, etc. already have that stuff in place 365 days a year and it is just far lower cost and more efficient for them to stream a game than it is for someone to do a one off or just one conference. WVU streamed their Spring Game this year....and it was watchable kind of, but people would be flipping out if they had that level of quality for a real game. ESPN+ is improving, but the production value is still often less than the network provides. We all know that MLB TV steaming is great, but they are just plugging into the regional telecast.

In regards to television basically just being live sports, I agree that it is basically sports and news we are paying for on a cable bill. I recently read that a basic cable package....the one with just like 30-40 channels...the very basic one offered that is often $39ish, that $7.50 is just for ESPN/ESPN2.

[Assembly Hall]

at some point in the future, I am sure the Big10 Network could pull off streaming.....but right now they are still making buckets of money off of the channel. The issue is streaming without a major network is nobody has really figured out how to their own operation, infrastructure of people, equipment, etc. while controlling costs. ESPN, FOX, etc. already have that stuff in place 365 days a year and it is just far lower cost and more efficient for them to stream a game than it is for someone to do a one off or just one conference. WVU streamed their Spring Game this year....and it was watchable kind of, but people would be flipping out if they had that level of quality for a real game. ESPN+ is improving, but the production value is still often less than the network provides. We all know that MLB TV steaming is great, but they are just plugging into the regional telecast.

In regards to television basically just being live sports, I agree that it is basically sports and news we are paying for on a cable bill. I recently read that a basic cable package....the one with just like 30-40 channels...the very basic one offered that is often $39ish, that $7.50 is just for ESPN/ESPN2.

There is a B1G+ streaming service. I used it to watch IU baseball games a few years back.

[adkindo]

There is a B1G+ streaming service. I used it to watch IU baseball games a few years back.

I assume it is operated by FOX?

[BuckeyeRed27]

I assume it is operated by FOX?

Yeah all the Big Ten Network stuff is 51% owned by Fox.

The only one that is owned by the conference completely is the PAC12 Network and that has been a decade long disaster.

[adkindo]

Yeah all the Big Ten Network stuff is 51% owned by Fox.

The only one that is owned by the conference completely is the PAC12 Network and that has been a decade long disaster.

Agree. I see a lot of fans on the WVU boards claiming that streaming is the future, as if that will help separate the sport from ESPN (and FOX to a lesser degree). The problem is these media companies know the landscape and have set themselves up to control streaming going forward also. IMO, there are only 3 media companies that currently able to handle conference level streaming and that is ABC/ESPN, FOX and CBS....and I think NBC could get there fast if they choose.

I wonder when and if a company could be built primarily around live sports in the way that Netflix is built around on demand viewing....and turn a profit within a decade? It makes me want to spend other peoples money and suggest Elon throw a billion or two at it to try to make it work. ESPN (and FOX to a lesser degree) simply have too much power over college football. I personally think ESPN has skirted dangerously up against anti-trust laws with some of their actions in recent decades.

[Assembly Hall]

Agree. I see a lot of fans on the WVU boards claiming that streaming is the future, as if that will help separate the sport from ESPN (and FOX to a lesser degree). The problem is these media companies know the landscape and have set themselves up to control streaming going forward also. IMO, there are only 3 media companies that currently able to handle conference level streaming and that is ABC/ESPN, FOX and CBS....and I think NBC could get there fast if they choose.

I wonder when and if a company could be built primarily around live sports in the way that Netflix is built around on demand viewing....and turn a profit within a decade? It makes me want to spend other peoples money and suggest Elon throw a billion or two at it to try to make it work. ESPN (and FOX to a lesser degree) simply have too much power over college football. I personally think ESPN has skirted dangerously up against anti-trust laws with some of their actions in recent decades.

NBC streamed the Olympics.

JMO, but streaming services like Roku, Youtube, Hulu, etc will get in/cut into ESPN and the rest's market. It is only a matter of time before one or all land a big "television" contract in sports.

[bucksfan2]

NBC streamed the Olympics.

JMO, but streaming services like Roku, Youtube, Hulu, etc will get in/cut into ESPN and the rest's market. It is only a matter of time before one or all land a big "television" contract in sports.

The still broadcasted the marquis events in NBC in primetime.

NBC does stream some Premier League games, which will be an interesting template to see where the networks go next.

Doesn't NBC roll together NBC/CNBC/MSNBC/NBC Sports when they sell to a provider? I wonder if it is more lucrative to sell the TV package or the streaming service.

I thought Amazon Prime won a couple of NFL contracts.

[adkindo]

I thought Amazon Prime won a couple of NFL contracts.

They are doing 1 game a week....kind of a beta phase.

[Assembly Hall]

The still broadcasted the marquis events in NBC in primetime.

NBC does stream some Premier League games, which will be an interesting template to see where the networks go next.

Doesn't NBC roll together NBC/CNBC/MSNBC/NBC Sports when they sell to a provider? I wonder if it is more lucrative to sell the TV package or the streaming service.

I thought Amazon Prime won a couple of NFL contracts.

I have no idea how NBC sells to providers.

[RiverRat13]

Pac 12/ACC/B1G in talks to form an "alliance." I've seen speculation about trying to freeze out the SEC in scheduling, but I doubt that happens. This reads to me as a chance for those conferences to keep the SEC influence in check during playoff expansion talks. The voting block will make sure that there is a limit on teams from any conference (i.e. the SEC can't get unlimited teams in) if they go to 8 or 12 teams.

[Rojo Rijo]

Pac 12/ACC/B1G in talks to form an "alliance." I've seen speculation about trying to freeze out the SEC in scheduling, but I doubt that happens. This reads to me as a chance for those conferences to keep the SEC influence in check during playoff expansion talks. The voting block will make sure that there is a limit on teams from any conference (i.e. the SEC can't get unlimited teams in) if they go to 8 or 12 teams.

LOL.

"Come at the King you best not miss."

[KronoRed]

I'm rooting for them, I don't want the SEC to get too much more of a fat head.

Would love to see them refuse to schedule SEC schools, I want to see chaos :D

[WVRed]

I'm rooting for them, I don't want the SEC to get too much more of a fat head.

Would love to see them refuse to schedule SEC schools, I want to see chaos :D

In which case the SEC would go conference only.

The SEC could do that and not miss a beat. Cross conference rivalries would be extinct and very well may be regardless.

[Assembly Hall]

In which case the SEC would go conference only.

The SEC could do that and not miss a beat. Cross conference rivalries would be extinct and very well may be regardless.

No more 'Bama vs. Mercer?

[WVRed]

No more 'Bama vs. Mercer?

Or the Citadel.

The SEC gave them Missouri and Kentucky as the SEC East teams last year. By contrast, Arkansas drew Georgia and Florida. Just like Florida not traveling to Lexington before October, you can be sure the SEC is going to take care of the blue bloods.

[Bourgeois Zee]

No more 'Bama vs. Mercer?

That'd be a bad thing for Mercer. It might well break their athletic program, as they depend on those $250,000 guarantees to keep things running.

For 'Bama? Maybe an upset once a decade when the stars align perfectly. Beyond that, not much of an effect.

What the SEC Freeze would mean, though, is a lack of meaningful rivalries with SEC squads-- and ultimately, a poorer product.

Some, obviously, would prefer a poorer product if that means they win more.

[adkindo]

I'm rooting for them, I don't want the SEC to get too much more of a fat head.

Would love to see them refuse to schedule SEC schools, I want to see chaos :D

I think it was just a warning shot at the SEC. There are games between the ACC and SEC that must continue. Also, I really see no benefit for the Big10 in this alliance.....seems more like they would be helping the PAC12 and ACC.

[adkindo]

Report: Big 12 bringing in former WVU AD, XFL commissioner Oliver Luck as consultant (https://247sports.com/Article/big-12-bringing-in-former-WVU-AD-XFL-commissioner-Oliver-Luck-as-consultant--169538873/)

I am sure one could read into this multiple ways, but I think it indicates the 8 remaining teams have concluded their options are limited.....and they will move forward in the near future trying to rebuild and stabilize the Big12.

I assume Luck was brought in because Bolwsby is perceived as damaged goods. Maybe it is fair, maybe it is not fair.....but it is what it is. Bowlsby can't really have open and free dialogue with Sankey....because there is baggage there.....same thing with ESPN. There could even be some feelings involved with the other 3 P5 conferences over The Alliance....these were Bowlsby's peers and they left him out. Luck can communicate with all these parties with no emotion or baggage in the background.

I do not think it guarantees the Big12 will survive and expand....but I do think it indicates that is the direction the conference is leaning. Luck will be able to be the primary person on the ground navigating the options, while allowing Bowlsby to remain in place as the public face of the process. I doubt Luck is wanting Bowlsby's job long term.....just playing the role for 18-24 months while likely getting paid very well. If he is successful in rebuilding and stabilizing the Big12, it is the kind of thing on the resume that has as much value as spending 10 years as the conference commissioner. Then again, Bowlsby was rumored to be in his 2-3 year window of retiring before any of this began.....so maybe Luck is being set up to take over the Commissioner position once the conference is rebuilt.

[Assembly Hall]

Report: Big 12 bringing in former WVU AD, XFL commissioner Oliver Luck as consultant (https://247sports.com/Article/big-12-bringing-in-former-WVU-AD-XFL-commissioner-Oliver-Luck-as-consultant--169538873/)

I am sure one could read into this multiple ways, but I think it indicates the 8 remaining teams have concluded their options are limited.....and they will move forward in the near future trying to rebuild and stabilize the Big12.

I assume Luck was brought in because Bolwsby is perceived as damaged goods. Maybe it is fair, maybe it is not fair.....but it is what it is. Bowlsby can't really have open and free dialogue with Sankey....because there is baggage there.....same thing with ESPN. There could even be some feelings involved with the other 3 P5 conferences over The Alliance....these were Bowlsby's peers and they left him out. Luck can communicate with all these parties with no emotion or baggage in the background.

I do not think it guarantees the Big12 will survive and expand....but I do think it indicates that is the direction the conference is leaning. Luck will be able to be the primary person on the ground navigating the options, while allowing Bowlsby to remain in place as the public face of the process. I doubt Luck is wanting Bowlsby's job long term.....just playing the role for 18-24 months while likely getting paid very well. If he is successful in rebuilding and stabilizing the Big12, it is the kind of thing on the resume that has as much value as spending 10 years as the conference commissioner. Then again, Bowlsby was rumored to be in his 2-3 year window of retiring before any of this began.....so maybe Luck is being set up to take over the Commissioner position once the conference is rebuilt.

Expand.

[Slyder]

Report: Big 12 bringing in former WVU AD, XFL commissioner Oliver Luck as consultant (https://247sports.com/Article/big-12-bringing-in-former-WVU-AD-XFL-commissioner-Oliver-Luck-as-consultant--169538873/)

I am sure one could read into this multiple ways, but I think it indicates the 8 remaining teams have concluded their options are limited.....and they will move forward in the near future trying to rebuild and stabilize the Big12.

I assume Luck was brought in because Bolwsby is perceived as damaged goods. Maybe it is fair, maybe it is not fair.....but it is what it is. Bowlsby can't really have open and free dialogue with Sankey....because there is baggage there.....same thing with ESPN. There could even be some feelings involved with the other 3 P5 conferences over The Alliance....these were Bowlsby's peers and they left him out. Luck can communicate with all these parties with no emotion or baggage in the background.

I do not think it guarantees the Big12 will survive and expand....but I do think it indicates that is the direction the conference is leaning. Luck will be able to be the primary person on the ground navigating the options, while allowing Bowlsby to remain in place as the public face of the process. I doubt Luck is wanting Bowlsby's job long term.....just playing the role for 18-24 months while likely getting paid very well. If he is successful in rebuilding and stabilizing the Big12, it is the kind of thing on the resume that has as much value as spending 10 years as the conference commissioner. Then again, Bowlsby was rumored to be in his 2-3 year window of retiring before any of this began.....so maybe Luck is being set up to take over the Commissioner position once the conference is rebuilt.

I still put Big12/Pac merger as the favorite. I just hope WVU would be in the SEC/ACC before then.

[Assembly Hall]

I still put Big12/Pac merger as the favorite. I just hope WVU would be in the SEC/ACC before then.

Merger? Why would the PAC do that? Absorb is a better word.

[Slyder]

Merger? Why would the PAC do that? Absorb is a better word.

Better start times, more TV sets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boston Red]

That's a tough cultural fit.

[bucksfan2]

I still put Big12/Pac merger as the favorite. I just hope WVU would be in the SEC/ACC before then.

What does the B12 have to add anymore? That is kind of where they are at, you aren't adding a big market, you aren't adding a prestigious academic institution, the AAU schools are Iowa State and Kansas which bring little in trying to expand a conference.

I am not picking on WVU, but does USC or Washington or Cal want to travel all the way to Morgantown to play WVU? How about the olympic sports? Geographically it would be a nightmare.

I did hear something about the "alliance" and basically it was for more football inventory for the networks.

FWIW I think the B12's best option is to raid the AAC, get BYU for football, and create a conference that may be a step down from the new power 4, but will be more respected than what the current step down is today.

[Boston Red]

I'm not sure any of the others will ever have great options, but how do you keep Oklahoma State and West Virginia happy in that scenario? It seems like you might end up with Iowa State, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and K-State looking to basically merge with the top of the AAC.

[adkindo]

After watching the press conference.....I think The Alliance has no plans to expand....at least while the Big12 is alive as a conference.

[adkindo]

Sankey in the SEC War Room after "The Alliance" press conference....

https://c.tenor.com/AKLbToyCifQAAAAM/ray-liotta-laughing-ray-liotta.gif

[Assembly Hall]

What does the B12 have to add anymore? That is kind of where they are at, you aren't adding a big market, you aren't adding a prestigious academic institution, the AAU schools are Iowa State and Kansas which bring little in trying to expand a conference.

I am not picking on WVU, but does USC or Washington or Cal want to travel all the way to Morgantown to play WVU? How about the olympic sports? Geographically it would be a nightmare.

I did hear something about the "alliance" and basically it was for more football inventory for the networks.

FWIW I think the B12's best option is to raid the AAC, get BYU for football, and create a conference that may be a step down from the new power 4, but will be more respected than what the current step down is today.

Get Notre Dame?

[adkindo]

What does the B12 have to add anymore? That is kind of where they are at, you aren't adding a big market, you aren't adding a prestigious academic institution, the AAU schools are Iowa State and Kansas which bring little in trying to expand a conference.

I am not picking on WVU, but does USC or Washington or Cal want to travel all the way to Morgantown to play WVU? How about the olympic sports? Geographically it would be a nightmare.

I did hear something about the "alliance" and basically it was for more football inventory for the networks.

FWIW I think the B12's best option is to raid the AAC, get BYU for football, and create a conference that may be a step down from the new power 4, but will be more respected than what the current step down is today.

hell no to BYU....if WVU is going to be part of this attempt to rebuild the Big12, Lubbock, TX is as far West as the conference should go. I am adding UCF, Cincinnati, Houston and USF. The Big12 will keep their "power" conference status for at least 3-4 years and the goal would be to much more in line with the PAC12/ACC than it is with the AAC/MWC. As long as the metrics show their strength is on par with the ACC/PAC12 (or really close), then they can likely keep their Power Conference designation even though they will take a big financial hit. The Big12 would still be a Top 3 basketball conference with those additions....even the best conference some seasons. I absolutely do not want any football only members.....I still have scars from the complications hybrid model caused in the Big East. I want full members only at the table.

I am not delusional in that I know brand is what matters, and a rebuilt Big12 is not close to the conference with Oklahoma and Texas in perception....but it is still going to always have 3-4 teams ranked in football and 5 or more in basketball. I think the quality metrics will still show at as much closer to the other power conferences than it will be to the G5 conferences.

[KronoRed]

The Pac12 says they will announce their expansion plans, if any, this week, seems weird to think they will announce nothing, guess they might want Texas Tech? Ok State? a lot of eh.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The Pac12 says they will announce their expansion plans, if any, this week, seems weird to think they will announce nothing, guess they might want Texas Tech? Ok State? a lot of eh.

Were I in charge, I'd go Fresno State, San Diego State, BYU, UNLV, Nevada, and maybe Gonzaga in basketball only. But really, expanding on the west coast doesn't make much sense, honestly.

The Big 12 has many more appealing options.

[IslandRed]

What I'd like to see the Pac-12 announce in regards to expansion is, "you know, the courts pretty much blew up the entire NCAA model this year, and until we figure out what college sports is going to look like five years from now, there's no point in it."

[KronoRed]

Pac 12 announces they won't do anything.

[Assembly Hall]

Pac 12 announces they won't do anything.

Good...

[Chip R]

What I'd like to see the Pac-12 announce in regards to expansion is, "you know, the courts pretty much blew up the entire NCAA model this year, and until we figure out what college sports is going to look like five years from now, there's no point in it."

Yeah. The problem with that is that you have to be proactive - like the SEC - and not reactive - like the Big XII.

[adkindo]

Looks like this thing is going to move quicker than most expected in regards to the Big12 expanding. The Athletic reported (and every other media outlet confirmed) that the 4 additions will be BYU, UCF, Cincinnati and Houston. The Athletic also reported that Bowlsby was @ Houston yesterday apparently discussing details. Subsequent reports suggest that invitations will go out within weeks, and BYU will likely join (at least in football) before next season and then their other sports may follow after they give their required notice to the MWC. It is unclear when the 3 AAC schools would join since they will have to provide up to a 27 month notice to the AAC, but there is an assumption that could be negotiated down to where they could maybe join by 2023.

Aresco is fairly aggressive and I assume the AAC may want to add 4 to get back to 12. They dropped to 11 with UConn's exit. Any thoughts on who they may add? Army for football only would seem like a solid move.

[KronoRed]

Sounds like the AAC part 2, at least WVU won't be alone on their island anymore.

[adkindo]

Sounds like the AAC part 2, at least WVU won't be alone on their island anymore.

I disagree. BYU is clearly a P5 level program, and I think UCF may elevate to a near elite level program within a decade (near elite to me is annual conference champions contender, routine NY6 participant). Cincinnati is currently a Top 10 team. Houston is probably the most questionable....but there is no logical reason that Houston cannot be similar to TCU, Baylor, etc. The metrics will show it is a strong conference....just lacks the 1 or 2 blue bloods every other P5 conference has besides the SEC which has 5 or 6.

[bucksfan2]

I disagree. BYU is clearly a P5 level program, and I think UCF may elevate to a near elite level program within a decade (near elite to me is annual conference champions contender, routine NY6 participant). Cincinnati is currently a Top 10 team. Houston is probably the most questionable....but there is no logical reason that Houston cannot be similar to TCU, Baylor, etc. The metrics will show it is a strong conference....just lacks the 1 or 2 blue bloods every other P5 conference has besides the SEC which has 5 or 6.

Its now a conference without a top tier team, but a competitive conference none the less.

FWIW I think Houston could be the prize in expansion. Cincinnati brings a quality team with a committed AD.

I am not real high on UCF. Yes they have geography on their side, but they are the obvious #4 team in the state, and fend off everyone for Florida recruits.

[RedTeamGo!]

If UCF becomes routinely in NY6 bowls that would be shocking