NBA 2021-22: Giannis Domini

[Betterread]

I don't think any of this is a major issue for the Sixers. Simmons still has his core skillset and a long-term contract. They have plenty of options to move forward with the current roster and while Simmons twists in the wind. The extra drama makes for good gawking from the outside. Not sure it affects anything on the inside. If Simmons was going to be able to jerk his way out of town, he'd already be gone. The reason why Jimmy Butler and James Harden had leverage is both were making the point their team's were garbage without them. In the Sixers' case, there's no team crisis.
Sixers need either Simmons or the talent that comes back from moving him. When Embiid gets hurt and he has to miss a bunch of games, you are left with Harris as your offensive leader, and that will result in losses.

[KoryMac5]

Agreed on many of the takes, Philly though has some culpability here in that their asking price for Simmons is that of a first level star...Simmons is good but he is more of a 2nd tier player for me someone who is good will make an all star team here and there but is more of a complimentary player as opposed to the main guy. I would think if they lowered the price a bit he would have been dealt by now.

[M2]

Sixers need either Simmons or the talent that comes back from moving him. When Embiid gets hurt and he has to miss a bunch of games, you are left with Harris as your offensive leader, and that will result in losses.

Won't be a lot of losses. They've got Drummond to soak up minutes at C and distributed scoring options. Eventually they'll want the talent that comes back from moving Simmons if they want to challenge for championships, but that's why they've got no real impetus to move him quickly for a crummy return. They can let him stew until the trade deadline. The guy who's got to make this right is Rich Paul, who's in serious danger of being found to be wearing no clothes. An All-Star player rotting on the suspended list and his supposed super agent unable to find him a landing spot is not going to be good for his business.

Philly can just wait for other teams to get itchy.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Philly can just wait for other teams to get itchy.

Can they?

Philly's the team who's competing for a championship. Most of the teams who are chasing Simmons aren't even in the playoff hunt-- and know it.

[M2]

Can they?

Philly's the team who's competing for a championship. Most of the teams who are chasing Simmons aren't even in the playoff hunt-- and know it.

Sure. They don't have to worry about competing for a championship until April. They'll make the playoffs with a fairly high seed. The only thing they need from Simmons is a trade return that strengthens their contender status. Until someone offers that return, they can keep Simmons on ice. If someone does put a quality offer on the table and they turn it down thinking there's untold riches to be had in the future, I'd consider that a mistake. Yet it doesn't sound like anyone has put forth a deal they should seriously consider.

Just thinking out loud, I wonder if the bad teams that should know they're bad are all secretly hoping they're this year's Phoenix. Maybe a few franchises need to get past irrational overconfidence before they admit Simmons is the best player they're going to get the chance to acquire this decade. One thought that's been rattling around my head is when things quickly go rotten in New Orleans this season, I wonder if Simmons for Brandon Ingram becomes a possibility.

[Revering4Blue]

Sure. They don't have to worry about competing for a championship until April. They'll make the playoffs with a fairly high seed. The only thing they need from Simmons is a trade return that strengthens their contender status. Until someone offers that return, they can keep Simmons on ice. If someone does put a quality offer on the table and they turn it down thinking there's untold riches to be had in the future, I'd consider that a mistake. Yet it doesn't sound like anyone has put forth a deal they should seriously consider.

Just thinking out loud, I wonder if the bad teams that should know they're bad are all secretly hoping they're this year's Phoenix. Maybe a few franchises need to get past irrational overconfidence before they admit Simmons is the best player they're going to get the chance to acquire this decade. One thought that's been rattling around my head is when things quickly go rotten in New Orleans this season, I wonder if Simmons for Brandon Ingram becomes a possibility.

Simmons and Reed for Ingram and Kira Lewis?

[Bourgeois Zee]

They'll make the playoffs with a fairly high seed.

Depends on how healthy Embiid is, Curry continuing to prove he's for real, and whether Maxey is for real as a lead guard. Simmons was an elite defender. Picks and pops without he as the second defender make Embiid play out on the floor. That's not ideal for the Sixers or Embiid's balky knees. (Ditto his replacement, Drummond, who's been exposed as a less than ideal center in today's pick-and-pop league.)

I could see Philadelphia dropping to a five or six seed if all of those aren't answered positively, and they let the Simmons drama (and make no mistake, it's going to be drama-filled until he's dealt) infect their team.

[M2]

Depends on how healthy Embiid is, Curry continuing to prove he's for real, and whether Maxey is for real as a lead guard. Simmons was an elite defender. Picks and pops without he as the second defender make Embiid play out on the floor. That's not ideal for the Sixers or Embiid's balky knees. (Ditto his replacement, Drummond, who's been exposed as a less than ideal center in today's pick-and-pop league.)

I could see Philadelphia dropping to a five or six seed if all of those aren't answered positively, and they let the Simmons drama (and make no mistake, it's going to be drama-filled until he's dealt) infect their team.

I'm guessing no Simmons means more Thybulle, who's also an elite defender. Also starting to buy into the notion Korkmaz is going to take a step forward. I also feel like Tobias Harris gets severely overlooked. He's versatile 2nd option scorer who also plays good defense. I know he makes $10M more than they probably ought to pay him, but on the basketball court he's a big reason why they're a good team.

And I don't think the Simmons drama will spillover much since they are a good team. Other capable players will get a shot in his stead. I suppose there's a version of this playing out where he's constantly dogging it and being a distraction on the bench, but today's blowout indicates Doc's not having that.

[BillDoran]

Morey takes some of the blame for this. He galaxy-brained this. He tried to slam dunk a deal on a distressed asset. His asking price, per what's been reported, was/is preposterous. It's a good roster with a potential Hall of Fame center in his prime. Take 90 cents on the dollar on draft night and put the soap opera behind you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad a front office took a stand on a player pulling a Harden, but I'm not doing it with a roster ready to compete. Swallow your pride. Remove the headache. Get ready for the season.

[M2]

Time to pick NBA over/unders. Here they are:

EAST

Nets - 56.5
Bucks - 53.5
76ers - 50.5
Heat - 48.5
Hawks - 47.5
Celtics - 46.5
Bulls - 43.5
Pacers - 43.5
Knicks - 41.5
Hornets - 37.5
Raptors - 36.5
Wizards - 34.5
Cavaliers - 26.5
Pistons - 25.5
Magic - 22.5

WEST

Lakers - 53.5
Jazz - 52.5
Suns - 50.5
Warriors - 48.5
Nuggets - 47.5
Mavericks - 47.5
Trail Blazers - 45.5
Clippers - 44.5
Grizzlies - 41.5
Pelicans - 39.5
Kings - 35.5
Timberwolves - 35.5
Spurs - 29.5
Rockets - 26.5
Thunder - 23.5

[M2]

Morey takes some of the blame for this. He galaxy-brained this. He tried to slam dunk a deal on a distressed asset. His asking price, per what's been reported, was/is preposterous. It's a good roster with a potential Hall of Fame center in his prime. Take 90 cents on the dollar on draft night and put the soap opera behind you.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad a front office took a stand on a player pulling a Harden, but I'm not doing it with a roster ready to compete. Swallow your pride. Remove the headache. Get ready for the season.

I'll be on that page if we had seen any reports of reasonable deals being put on the table. We've yet to see one. Morey asking the moon is only out of touch if other teams are making serious offers. If he's asking for Fort Knox while other teams are offering a collection of rocks, sticks and pocket fuzz, then he's doing the right thing in waiting for a market to form.

[SteelSD]

I'm guessing no Simmons means more Thybulle, who's also an elite defender. Also starting to buy into the notion Korkmaz is going to take a step forward. I also feel like Tobias Harris gets severely overlooked. He's versatile 2nd option scorer who also plays good defense. I know he makes $10M more than they probably ought to pay him, but on the basketball court he's a big reason why they're a good team.

Isaiah Joe is the guy who interests me from a step-forward perspective. That cat can pure shoot. And while not physical, he's a good positional defender. A bunch of the Sixers have learned a ton about defense from Thybulle.


And I don't think the Simmons drama will spillover much since they are a good team. Other capable players will get a shot in his stead. I suppose there's a version of this playing out where he's constantly dogging it and being a distraction on the bench, but today's blowout indicates Doc's not having that.

Yup. More than that, I think the speed at which the Sixers levied the suspension likely means that they already have this scenario scripted out. This isn't chaos. It's a planned response to pretty predictable behavior. He removed himself from practice before he was supposed to speak to the media and a day before he was supposed to fly to a road game and likely come off the bench (egads!) if he played at all. If he continues to do this habitually, the Sixers may be able to levy a longer suspension and at 20 games, the per-game fines increase, per the CBA.

[adkindo]

Not sure what the Lakers will look like tonight. I think there is a chance it could be rough....at least early in the season.

[UKFlounder]

Is there any realistic scenario in which Simmons shows up at practices and games and does just enough that they can’t suspend him? Do they just bench him and still pay him or do they tell him to stay home?

[BillDoran]

Is there any realistic scenario in which Simmons shows up at practices and games and does just enough that they can’t suspend him? Do they just bench him and still pay him or do they tell him to stay home?

Potentially really important standoff ahead. If owners really are mad about "player empowerment," and players are willing to pull a Harden, where's the line for a legitimate suspension? Refusing to participate in drills? Dogging it in games? Not running the offense? Being out of shape?

Probably extrapolating too much here, but it feels like we might have an NBPA issue. Seems like the Sixers might be willing to really push this (which seems like a bad way actually get buy-in).

[BillDoran]

I'll be on that page if we had seen any reports of reasonable deals being put on the table. We've yet to see one. Morey asking the moon is only out of touch if other teams are making serious offers. If he's asking for Fort Knox while other teams are offering a collection of rocks, sticks and pocket fuzz, then he's doing the right thing in waiting for a market to form.

His value is what is offered.

While there hasn't been a ton of reporting on what's been proposed by other teams, we've heard about a number of interested teams. I'm sure 75 cents on the dollar has been there. The problem is Morey has postured that Simmons is a fair trade for Lillard, when he won't really get you De'Arron Fox.

You cannot like what's out there, but that's irrelevant. And dragging this out and stubbornly insisting Simmons is worth more surely hasn't increased his value. Could be wrong, but it feels like an ego thing to me for Morey. He does the pushing. You don't push him around.

[M2]

Not sure what the Lakers will look like tonight. I think there is a chance it could be rough....at least early in the season.

A lot depends on whether AD puts up an MVP-type season. Though it will be interesting to see how they come out of the gate compared to the Warriors.

[SteelSD]

Potentially really important standoff ahead. If owners really are mad about "player empowerment," and players are willing to pull a Harden, where's the line for a legitimate suspension? Refusing to participate in drills? Dogging it in games? Not running the offense? Being out of shape?

Probably extrapolating too much here, but it feels like we might have an NBPA issue. Seems like the Sixers might be willing to really push this (which seems like a bad way actually get buy-in).

The long and the short of it is that if Simmons honors his contract, he'll get paid. If he continues to do the opposite, he won't.

He could pull a "Harden", I suppose. But first, he's not James Harden, who also didn't have a bigger star to hold him accountable and galvanize the fan base. Second, I have to believe there had to be a bit of sympathy for Harden- deserved or not- given that it was pretty clear that the Rockets were clearly moving into deep rebuilding (to be kind) mode. Lastly, what do we think it'll be like- especially after today- for Ben Simmons to be sitting at the end of the bench during a game in Philly? I guess he could try it, but it ain't gonna' be pretty given how decidedly he's overplayed his hand.

You're right that it may end up being a CBA issue longer-term. Today, Adam Silver mentioned that he's not sure what rule changes might help alleviate potentially similar issues in the future. Sounds like a harmless comment on the surface. But do we really think players and, even moreso, their agents even want even a fragment of a sliver of a thought like that to enter Silver's consciousness? I don't. It's possible that Simmons will soon feel pressure from the NBA and, if it goes far enough, from other players who absolutely don't want him possibly messing with their future earnings.

[M2]

His value is what is offered.

While there hasn't been a ton of reporting on what's been proposed by other teams, we've heard about a number of interested teams. I'm sure 75 cents on the dollar has been there. The problem is Morey has postured that Simmons is a fair trade for Lillard, when he won't really get you De'Arron Fox.

You cannot like what's out there, but that's irrelevant. And dragging this out and stubbornly insisting Simmons is worth more surely hasn't increased his value. Could be wrong, but it feels like an ego thing to me for Morey. He does the pushing. You don't push him around.

If they don't like what's being offered right now then they have no reason not to hold him for the trade deadline. Again, they're fine for the regular season. They don't have to rush into a rash decision. That's not ego, that's just sensible asset management. And I think Morey is perfectly within bounds to make stupid counters to terrible offers. I still think his endgame is forcing Rich Paul to make his deal for him. Paul can put something extra on the table, Morey can't - a promise to funnel some players the way of whatever team is acquiring Simmons.

[SteelSD]

If they don't like what's being offered right now then they have no reason not to hold him for the trade deadline. Again, they're fine for the regular season. They don't have to rush into a rash decision. That's not ego, that's just sensible asset management. And I think Morey is perfectly within bounds to make stupid counters to terrible offers. I still think his endgame is forcing Rich Paul to make his deal for him. Paul can put something extra on the table, Morey can't - a promise to funnel some players the way of whatever team is acquiring Simmons.

Again, yes, absolutely. Not only do should the Sixers have no motivation to act emotionally toward a trade, top trade targets haven't come available yet. And other teams are currently carrying assets that can't be traded until mid-December or mid-January. Why, unless blown away, would a team trade a player of Simmons' caliber when the market itself is talent-suppressed?

[M2]

The Bucks are looking good. Winning a title seems to agree with them.

[SteelSD]

The Bucks are looking good. Winning a title seems to agree with them.

Yes, but damn, Brooklyn plays no defense. I swear that I heard one exchange tonight where Steve Nash shouted "Closeout!" after a Bucks three, and three Nets players responding by yelling back, "What store??"

[BillDoran]

If they don't like what's being offered right now then they have no reason not to hold him for the trade deadline. Again, they're fine for the regular season. They don't have to rush into a rash decision. That's not ego, that's just sensible asset management. And I think Morey is perfectly within bounds to make stupid counters to terrible offers. I still think his endgame is forcing Rich Paul to make his deal for him. Paul can put something extra on the table, Morey can't - a promise to funnel some players the way of whatever team is acquiring Simmons.

Good asset management is not letting your asset's value deteriorate, and that's exactly what's happened. Now he's a guy with a busted shot, shaky confidence and a demonstrably bad attitude.

Good asset management doesn't squander his assets either. Right now, he's extracting zero (maybe negative?) value from Simmons. If he sulks or sits, that's just flushing value. Certainly, the Sixers are better off with Buddy Hield, Davion Mitchell and Chimezi Metu than Bad Attitude Ben.

We're talking about this like there's a clear, observable valuation. But it's poker. You think he's still got a good hand. I think he overplayed it. Suppose we'll find out.

[Mutaman]

Only reason Nets won was because of injuries to Holliday, Portis and DiVincenzo.
Oh wait, you mean a team can have injuries and persevere and still win?

[BillDoran]

Only reason Nets won was because of injuries to Holliday, Portis and DiVincenzo.
Oh wait, you mean a team can have injuries and persevere and still win?

#bucksin6

[adkindo]

Can you imagine trying to convince a 12 year old Austin Reeves (2010ish) that he would make it to the NBA and as a rookie on opening night, his teammates would include Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Rajon Rondo and Dwight Howard......

[SteelSD]

Can you imagine trying to convince a 12 year old Austin Reeves (2010ish) that he would make it to the NBA and as a rookie on opening night, his teammates would include Lebron James, Anthony Davis, Russell Westbrook, Carmelo Anthony, Rajon Rondo and Dwight Howard......

"Wow. That's super cool, Dad. But who is Anthony Davis?"

[adkindo]

"Wow. That's super cool, Dad. But who is Anthony Davis?"

He may not have known at 12 years old.....but people knew who AD was in 2010.....it was the year before he arrived in Lexington.

[Mutaman]

"Wow. That's super cool, Dad. But who is Anthony Davis?"

Big time Packer fan



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fthespun.com%2Fnba%2Flos-angeles-lakers%2Faaron-rodgers-trade-retirement-rumors-green-bay-packers-anthony-davis-stream-reaction&psig=AOvVaw1r6VuF_urtsKiy1XHMaH-7&ust=1634785053594000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjT5b-E_9fzAhWnBFkFHdA4AnYQjRx6BAgAEAk

[Mutaman]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1216491463531540480

[M2]

Good asset management is not letting your asset's value deteriorate, and that's exactly what's happened. Now he's a guy with a busted shot, shaky confidence and a demonstrably bad attitude.

Good asset management doesn't squander his assets either. Right now, he's extracting zero (maybe negative?) value from Simmons. If he sulks or sits, that's just flushing value. Certainly, the Sixers are better off with Buddy Hield, Davion Mitchell and Chimezi Metu than Bad Attitude Ben.

We're talking about this like there's a clear, observable valuation. But it's poker. You think he's still got a good hand. I think he overplayed it. Suppose we'll find out.

He's also a 25-year-old three-time All-Star who's always made the playoffs with a career 16/8/8 line on fairly low usage. Then add in that he's locked down. If the Sixers ultimately have to give him away for nothing, they can do that later. Yet they've got no reason not to hold him and wait for a wave of sanity to wash over one of the many teams for whom he'd be a ticket to a generation of better basketball. So far teams like the Kings aren't offering the sort of deal you just listed, and they really should. Somebody's going to spiral early and then realize "hey, we could have Ben Simmons."

[Betterread]

He's also a 25-year-old three-time All-Star who's always made the playoffs with a career 16/8/8 line on fairly low usage. Then add in that he's locked down. If the Sixers ultimately have to give him away for nothing, they can do that later. Yet they've got no reason not to hold him and wait for a wave of sanity to wash over one of the many teams for whom he'd be a ticket to a generation of better basketball. So far teams like the Kings aren't offering the sort of deal you just listed, and they really should. Somebody's going to spiral early and then realize "hey, we could have Ben Simmons."
The only guys that I can think of that are real quality and might be available for Simmons are Beal and Lilliard, and they are franchise cornerstones. Lots of teams have waited for them to be available, and waited in vain. Maybe that changes this year, but that’s just two low probability options to have your team sit and wait on. Doesn’t seem like good risk management.

[M2]

All right, I'm going to take a stab at the over/unders.

EAST

Nets - 56.5 - Under

My theory on older teams is they conserve energy during the season. Plus, as we saw tonight, defense isn't their thing.

Bucks - 53.5 - Over

Rarely does a title winner have a chip on its shoulder, but I suspect the Bucks want some respect put on their name.

76ers - 50.5 - Over

It all hinges on Embiid's health, but he might be chasing an MVP. Plus, I expect they're going to get something useful for Simmons eventually.

Heat - 48.5 - Under

They'd kind of need Bam and Hierro to take another leap to hit the over because they're no super deep.

Hawks - 47.5 - Over

Still a problem defense, but I like Hunter, Bogdanovich and Gallinari as depth scoring.

Celtics - 46.5 - Over

I'm a sucker for wings. I also think they'll be seeking wash off the stink of last season.

Bulls - 43.5 - Over

I worry that the pieces won't fit, but DeRo and LaVine give them pretty much guaranteed wing scoring. And I'm a sucker for that.

Pacers - 43.5 - Under

They'd be a different and much better team with Warren and LeVert, but I don't know when they're showing up.

Knicks - 41.5 - Under

I spent all of last season waiting for the Knicks to turn into a pumpkin. Happened in the playoffs. Still looking like a gourd to me.

Hornets - 37.5 - Under

Gordon Hayward as your foundation is like building on quicksand. Though I think they're making a move in the middle of the season.

Raptors - 36.5 - Over

I've got to take on over on somebody here. Weird team that I think Nick Nurse gets into a groove.

Wizards - 34.5 - Over

They've got 9 guys who can play and a go-to scorer. I think they might beat this by a healthy margin.

Cavaliers - 26.5 - Under

I don't understand the construction of this team. Also, I want Sexland to be so much better than it is.

Pistons - 25.5 - Over

I think they can grind out 26 wins.

Magic - 22.5 - Under

If Jalen Suggs quickly takes over the team they could go over, but they've got a lot to figure out.

WEST

Lakers - 53.5 - Under

We saw why tonight. I just don't think this team has got 82 games of fire in its belly, though I think they'll overall be fine.

Jazz - 52.5 - Over

I think this might be the season where playoff Spida becomes everyday Spida.

Suns - 50.5 - Under

Everything went right last year. I think at least a couple of things go wrong this season.

Warriors - 48.5 - Over

They have some depth again. Also, hopefully at some point, Klay.

Nuggets - 47.5 - Over

Easiest pick in the bunch, IMO. It's a young, good team entering its prime with a freaky great player in Jokic.

Mavericks - 47.5 - Under

Kind of the same team as last year that couldn't give Luka enough help. I don't get what they're doing.

Trail Blazers - 45.5 - Over

I think the bottom of the West looks pretty awful, so rising tide for a team that's going to get buckets.

Clippers - 44.5 - Under

No Kawhi, but lots of Luke Kennard and Eric Bledsoe? Eek.

Grizzlies - 41.5 - Under

I thought they overachieved last season and they did nothing to get better.

Pelicans - 39.5 - Under

Disaster at the guard positions. Zion enjoying the buffet lifestyle. No depth. Could be the worst team in the NBA.

Kings - 35.5 - Over

Not by a lot, but slightly over. They're still defense-optional goofs, but they can score better than other defense-optional goofs.

Timberwolves - 35.5 - Over

I'm a little dizzy from picking the over, but decent health and they can be not horrible.

Spurs - 29.5 - Over

This pick is solely based on Pop squeezing wins out of a team with a 0-82 roster.

Rockets - 26.5 - Under

They have not yet begun to tank.

Thunder - 23.5 - Over

I feel like SGA and Lu Dort will steal just enough games to hit the over.

[M2]

The only guys that I can think of that are real quality and might be available for Simmons are Beal and Lilliard, and they are franchise cornerstones. Lots of teams have waited for them to be available, and waited in vain. Maybe that changes this year, but that’s just two low probability options to have your team sit and wait on. Doesn’t seem like good risk management.

They're not getting a franchise cornerstone, but they can get some wing scoring/shooting and some ballhandling (which is what they really need).

[BillDoran]

Knicks - 41.5 - Under

I spent all of last season waiting for the Knicks to turn into pumpkin. Happened in the playoffs. Still looking like a gourd to me.


This is the one that sticks out for me. If I gambled, I'd hammer the over here. They've got depth, and you know Thibs is riding them every night like it's Game 7 of the Conference Finals. MSG's a plus, and there's still a chance Toppin can play and Barrett shows us another gear. Feels like easy money to me.

[BillDoran]

They're not getting a franchise cornerstone, but they can get some wing scoring/shooting and some ballhandling (which is what they really need).

This is where my frustration stems from, the idea that Lillard for Simmons is a legitimate trade. McCollum, maybe, but there's nothing that makes sense on the Lillard front, no combination of mediocre young guys and late picks makes any sense whatsoever. And all along, we've heard Morey was holding out for a superstar or a thousand first round picks.

It's frustrating as a mid-market fan, the idea that the big teams can swoop in and grab your stars when convenient. It's probably just media speculation, but F Morey. I'll take whatever the Kings or Magic are offering just to spite him.

[M2]

This is where my frustration stems from, the idea that Lillard for Simmons is a legitimate trade. McCollum, maybe, but there's nothing that makes sense on the Lillard front, no combination of mediocre young guys and late picks makes any sense whatsoever. And all along, we've heard Morey was holding out for a superstar or a thousand first round picks.

It's frustrating as a mid-market fan, the idea that the big teams can swoop in and grab your stars when convenient. It's probably just media speculation, but F Morey. I'll take whatever the Kings or Magic are offering just to spite him.

I think the James Harden trade is instructive here. Houston didn't have to trade him when it did. It could have hardballed him like Philly is doing to Simmons. They had him for the next two years. They jettisoned him for a pile of what are probably going to be low draft picks. They somehow didn't even come out of it with Jarrett Allen. Yet it seems what they really wanted was to dump money.

If you're Philly, you're not making any deal with the Magic or the Cavaliers. They don't have anything you want. There's probably a deal to be made with the Kings, but we have no indication the Kings have offered it yet. So you wait. What if Chicago is a mess and Zach LaVine tells them he's not re-signing? What if New Orleans is a mess and suddenly Brandon Ingram is on the table? Basically, Simmons is a quality return for anybody who hits the market between now and the trade deadline. Other teams aren't going to do better than a 25-year-old All-Star regular who's a fixture on the All-Defensive team and has made the All-NBA list.

I suggest being frustrated at the Kings for dragging their feet when they could be locking down a player who could lead them out of the wilderness. That team is screwing up massively. Philly's just holding a proven commodity until it can get a good return for him. That's sensible.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think the James Harden trade is instructive here. Houston didn't have to trade him when it did. It could have hardballed him like Philly is doing to Simmons. They had him for the next two years. They jettisoned him for a pile of what are probably going to be low draft picks. They somehow didn't even come out of it with Jarrett Allen. Yet it seems what they really wanted was to dump money.

If you're Philly, you're not making any deal with the Magic or the Cavaliers. They don't have anything you want. There's probably a deal to be made with the Kings, but we have no indication the Kings have offered it yet. So you wait. What if Chicago is a mess and Zach LaVine tells them he's not re-signing? What if New Orleans is a mess and suddenly Brandon Ingram is on the table? Basically, Simmons is a quality return for anybody who hits the market between now and the trade deadline. Other teams aren't going to do better than a 25-year-old All-Star regular who's a fixture on the All-Defensive team and has made the All-NBA list.

I suggest being frustrated at the Kings for dragging their feet when they could be locking down a player who could lead them out of the wilderness. That team is screwing up massively. Philly's just holding a proven commodity until it can get a good return for him. That's sensible.

Yeah best parallel to this is when the Cavs panic sold Kyrie and got hurt Isiah and an HBO Max subscription. What if they just waited a couple months? Probably get Kemba and probably win the title.

[SteelSD]

I think the James Harden trade is instructive here. Houston didn't have to trade him when it did. It could have hardballed him like Philly is doing to Simmons. They had him for the next two years. They jettisoned him for a pile of what are probably going to be low draft picks. They somehow didn't even come out of it with Jarrett Allen. Yet it seems what they really wanted was to dump money.

If you're Philly, you're not making any deal with the Magic or the Cavaliers. They don't have anything you want. There's probably a deal to be made with the Kings, but we have no indication the Kings have offered it yet. So you wait. What if Chicago is a mess and Zach LaVine tells them he's not re-signing? What if New Orleans is a mess and suddenly Brandon Ingram is on the table? Basically, Simmons is a quality return for anybody who hits the market between now and the trade deadline. Other teams aren't going to do better than a 25-year-old All-Star regular who's a fixture on the All-Defensive team and has made the All-NBA list.

I suggest being frustrated at the Kings for dragging their feet when they could be locking down a player who could lead them out of the wilderness. That team is screwing up massively. Philly's just holding a proven commodity until it can get a good return for him. That's sensible.

To this day, I'm trying to figure out how Houston ended up getting less for Harden than Brooklyn gave up to get him. It's like the first hour of Brewsters Millions.

I get that they were about to go into full tank mode and all. But instead of hoping that John Wall and some magic beans would work out swell, they could have grabbed Simmons to jump start the rebuild plus picks.

It was not, however, a small/mid-market team being "victimized" by a large-market franchise.

[Revering4Blue]

Yeah best parallel to this is when the Cavs panic sold Kyrie and got hurt Isiah and an HBO Max subscription. What if they just waited a couple months? Probably get Kemba and probably win the title.Good call. But I still believe Brooklyn's pick, which turned out to be lower than expected, was viewed as the key piece in the deal. And viewed as a get out of jail free card in light of LeBron's inevitable departure.

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[BuckeyeRed27]

Good call. But I still believe Brooklyn's pick, which turned out to be lower than expected, was viewed as the key piece in the deal. And viewed as a get out of jail free card in light of LeBron's inevitable departure.

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Which turned into Colin Sexton (M2 apparently calls him Sexland, I’m not here to judge), and at the moment that’s probably the best return Philly can get if they also hit the panic button.

Wheels within wheels.

[Revering4Blue]

To this day, I'm trying to figure out how Houston ended up getting less for Harden than Brooklyn gave up to get him. It's like the first hour of Brewsters Millions.

I get that they were about to go into full tank mode and all. But instead of hoping that John Wall and some magic beans would work out swell, they could have grabbed Simmons to jump start the rebuild plus picks.

It was not, however, a small/mid-market team being "victimized" by a large-market franchise.Steel,

I suspect the answer to your question is tied to the fact that Houston wished to retain last draft's lottery pick, which was slated to go to OKC in the Westbrook deal had it fallen out of the lottery. It also helps to explain why the Rockets didn't somehow wind up with a package of Allen, Harris, LeVert AND draft picks, or a package based around Ben Simmons, as the aforementioned players may have resulted in too many wins, pushing them out of the lottery.

Just my two cents.

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[Revering4Blue]

Which turned into Colin Sexton (M2 apparently calls him Sexland, I’m not here to judge), and at the moment that’s probably the best return Philly can get if they also hit the panic button.

Wheels within wheels.FWIW, Sexland is the nickname given by to the Garland/Sexton backcourt combo as I understand it.

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[BuckeyeRed27]

FWIW, Sexland is the nickname given by to the Garland/Sexton backcourt combo as I understand it.

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Ohhhh well that makes hilarious sense.

[M2]

And all of Cleveland has to be thinking "this is Sexland?"

[15fan]

Kyrie for Simmons?

Each team gets a guy who can play due to change of locale.

Neither guy has a shot.

[M2]

Kyrie for Simmons?

Each team gets a guy who can play due to change of locale.

Neither guy has a shot.

Kyrie can't play in Philly. Not because of vaccines, but because its the most brutal sports fan market in the U.S. It would be a complete disaster. Makes me kind of want to see it.

[SteelSD]

Steel,

I suspect the answer to your question is tied to the fact that Houston wished to retain last draft's lottery pick, which was slated to go to OKC in the Westbrook deal had it fallen out of the lottery. It also helps to explain why the Rockets didn't somehow wind up with a package of Allen, Harris, LeVert AND draft picks, or a package based around Ben Simmons, as the aforementioned players may have resulted in too many wins, pushing them out of the lottery.

Just my two cents.

My understanding is that Houston needed to finish in the top 4 of the lottery. With 17 Wins, they had a 52% probability of that happening. Based on the lottery teams' final wins, Houston could have won four to five more games, depending on tiebreakers, and their probability of staying in one of the top 4 slots would have been reduced by only 7.5%. An additional win after that would have cost 14.8%. So while going full tankathon earned them margins toward a top-4 goal, it was far from a sure thing. And they could have slipped to the third worst record and would lose nothing in the probability quest for the top pick.

So, the question becomes, could Houston have acquired a package of Ben Simmons and picks while still working a world-class tank job and retaining a reasonable probability of keeping their pick? I sure think so. And, if they couldn't out-tank the positive impact of one guy, that would mean Simmons would be more than worth building around.

[M2]

LaMelo Ball went 7-9 from 3 tonight. That seems significant.

[M2]

The Celtics-Knicks game has been lit. Going to OT thanks to clutch 3's from Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart.

[SteelSD]

Sixers game was tight into the third quarter, but was blown wide open after point-Furkan shot like the bottom of the net was equpped with tractor beams- finishing with 22 off the bench and 5 dimes. Thybulle posted his usual 1-for-3 with 4 steals and a block line. Georges Niang was also lethal (3-4 from deep, finishing with 11 points). Good pickup. And Andre Drummond let Embiid sit after entering the game in the third. Drummond finished with only 6 points, but a whopping 17 boards in his 19 minutes off the bench. Unlike his 2020 predecessor (Dwight Howard), Drummond didn't foul anyone while screening, there were no flagrants, and he didn't pick up a tech. Nice! Of course, I jinxed Isaiah Joe (0-for-3), who left the game with what I first thought was a concussion, but returned with a chin laceration. Better luck next game, kid.

And that's the bench (!) who, until @3 min left in the fourth, had outscored the Pels bench 37 to 5.

For the starters, Tobias Harris puts up lines of 20 pts/12 boards while you barely notice him. Weird. Embiid was Embiid, but tried to do a bit too much early. Steph Curry was himself too. Tyrese Maxey was the only starter who played >30 minutes, putting up a line of 20 pts on 8-for-14 shooting (2-3 from three), 7 boards, and 5 assists with only one turnover. So that went well. Danny Green is old, but we all knew that.

No Zion for the Pels, so can't read much into the game, but good stuff all around from Philly tonight.

[Stray]

Wizards looked pretty good tonight, granted the Raptors are injured and might be terrible regardless.

As for DFS, opening night is always a toss-up for me, and I bombed pretty hard. Tho I did nail the Kuzma and Anthony Edwards games.

Also, I thought Maxey was better than serviceable for the Sixers, he was pretty good. If Simmons doesn't care and is just gonna be a distraction, they're better off leaving him on the back burner and entertaining trades. Bengals and Carson kinda both won in a situation kinda similar to this one.

[Stray]

I've enjoyed the late night Kings for a while now, but not really sold on what Luke is doing there. They were better than their record last year. Still don't think Fox has had a coach who knows how to properly use him.

[M2]

Trez impressed in his first game as a Wizard, going 22/9 in 26 minutes.

Memphis' three-guard lineup beat Cleveland's three-center lineup, even out-rebounded them 53-36. Ja Morant scored 37. Jarrett Allen was an impressive 11-11 from the floor in defeat.

Franz Wagner started over his older brother Mortiz tonight. The kid's never going to let him forget it.

[adkindo]

LaMelo Ball went 7-9 from 3 tonight. That seems significant.

Not going to miss a chance to pat myself on the back.....never was a big Lonzo fan, but I was telling people before the draft that LaMelo was a different cat. He has the ability to truly be a superstar in the NBA if he keeps his head in the right place.

[adkindo]

It has been in process for a couple years.....but opening night this year felt like a true turn to the newer generation of NBA stars. Sure, Lebron, Steph, Harden, etc. still have great years left....but the league is now in the hands of the next group of 22-28ish year olds. Youngish guys just came out balling on opening night.

[adkindo]

As someone that was not in favor of the Lakers dumping the youth to build around Lebron, I like to check in on the once Baby Lakers....

Randle - 35 PTS, 8 REB, 9 AST - 46 Minutes
Clarkson - 18 PTS, 1 REB, 1 AST - 27 Minutes
Russell - 22 PTS, 3 REB, 7 AST - 25 Minutes
Ingram - 25 PTS, 7 REB, 6 AST - 37 Minutes
Ball - 12 PTS, 6 REB, 4 AST - 33 Minutes
Kuzma - 11 PTS, 15 REB, 3 AST - 35 Minutes
Hart - 5 PTS, 2 REB, 1 AST - 10 Minutes
Nwaba - 7 PTS, 4 REB, 2 AST - 17 Minutes
Nance Jr. - 2 PTS, 3 REB, 2 AST - 17 Minutes
Zubac - Clippers have not played
Thomas Bryant - Injured
Caruso - 3 PTS, 3 REB, 3 AST - 27 Minutes

A game has 240 available minutes...and these players exceeded it a little bit with 274 minutes. 140 Points, 52 Rebounds, 38 Assists. I fully understand it is not this simple.....but not too shabby. There was a point in time where the Lakers could have kept their entire youth group (but would not have the draft pick to select Hart), and still been able to add one max player. It is hard to say they made the wrong decision since they have already won a championship....but I still would have preferred to keep the young core together.

[RichRed]

Wearing my vintage Bullets shirt today. Not too many high points in the life of a Wiz fan, so you take ‘em when you can get ‘em.

17771

[M2]

Wearing my vintage Bullets shirt today. Not too many high points in the life of a Wiz fan, so you take ‘em when you can get ‘em.

Impossible to say for sure from opening night and a lousy opponent, but I think D.C. might have something that approximates a basketball team.

[RichRed]

Impossible to say for sure from opening night and a lousy opponent, but I think D.C. might have something that approximates a basketball team.

I kind of agree and I think Wes Jr. might get them to play at least a little defense.

[BillDoran]

I kind of agree and I think Wes Jr. might get them to play at least a little defense.

The Wizards are deep with legitimate NBA players, and that includes more size than most rosters. I think they'll surprise people this year.

[BillDoran]

The soap opera enters its third act.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

Ben Simmons described back tightness to several Sixers staff members and was briefly treated for it today, sources tell ESPN.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The soap opera enters its third act.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

Ben Simmons described back tightness to several Sixers staff members and was briefly treated for it today, sources tell ESPN.

Clever of Simmons to make himself even more of a pariah (1) in the Sixers' locker room, and (2) in the Philadelphia community.

There's no way Morey's going to get full value for him.

[SteelSD]

The soap opera enters its third act.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

Ben Simmons described back tightness to several Sixers staff members and was briefly treated for it today, sources tell ESPN.

Now, that's something he might get away with. Having his head stuck up his rear for this long, and it's believable that his back would get a little twisty.

[M2]

On the Simmons pod Jackie MacMullan speculated Simmons might declare he needs some time to tend to his mental health. From a cynical standpoint it ensure he gets paid. From a practical standpoint, it also seems like it might be the truth and could be the best thing for him.

[BillDoran]

The front office can posture and play with Simmons's money all they want, but there's just about nothing they can do to stop feigning an injury.

They won on opening night with the Simmons cloud looming overhead. We'll see how the first dozen or so games shake out.

Like BZ said, the Simmons market isn't getting better. Loses and swirling drama will only further drive down the price.

[M2]

The front office can posture and play with Simmons's money all they want, but there's just about nothing they can do to stop feigning an injury.

They won on opening night with the Simmons cloud looming overhead. We'll see how the first dozen or so games shake out.

Like BZ said, the Simmons market isn't getting better. Loses and swirling drama will only further drive down the price.

I really, really don't expect them to lose a whole lot. They should be one of the better teams in the East even without him. It's the chief reason that makes Simmons a different proposition than past trade-me-or-trade-me demands. Players usually don't beg off of contending teams and good teams don't have to act desperately.

That's why Morey's paraphrasing Elton John lyrics in his interviews - https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=32448152. He thinks it's gonna be a long, long time.

[M2]

Steph's 1st quarter tonight: 9-9 from the field, 5-5 from 3, 25 points.

Where's Kingspoint? All. Time. Great.

[Revering4Blue]

LaMelo Ball went 7-9 from 3 tonight. That seems significant.The Ball - Duarte dual was something else. And Sabonis was absolutely beasting, knocking threes and posting Jokic-like numbers, alas in a loss.

But give Charlotte credit, they were getting clocked and turned the game around 100 degrees to pull it out.

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[Revering4Blue]

The Celtics-Knicks game has been lit. Going to OT thanks to clutch 3's from Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart.That was some game, indeed. And neither team was at full strength.

From Boston's standpoint, judging from message boards, Celts fans question the new switching defense. Likewise, they're also question ing the decision to play Schroder in crunch time instead of Langford or Nesmith with Richardson out.

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[Stray]

On the Simmons pod Jackie MacMullan speculated Simmons might declare he needs some time to tend to his mental health. From a cynical standpoint it ensure he gets paid. From a practical standpoint, it also seems like it might be the truth and could be the best thing for him.

I'm a cynic here. Simmons has handled this about as poorly as possible. I mean I guess it's possible he has issues, but I don't buy it. Not with the way this whole thing has played out.

[Betterread]

I really, really don't expect them to lose a whole lot. They should be one of the better teams in the East even without him. It's the chief reason that makes Simmons a different proposition than past trade-me-or-trade-me demands. Players usually don't beg off of contending teams and good teams don't have to act desperately.

That's why Morey's paraphrasing Elton John lyrics in his interviews - https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=32448152. He thinks it's gonna be a long, long time.

Trust the egress! Morey’s that is.

[Stray]

Steph's 1st quarter tonight: 9-9 from the field, 5-5 from 3, 25 points.

Where's Kingspoint? All. Time. Great.

I also didn't buy into Steph's game for a while. Thought he was too gimmicky. "Dude would never survive the 90s!", stuff like that. But he's legitimately great. I don't even know how anyone can argue otherwise anymore.

[Stray]

Steph is ridiculous

[SteelSD]

The Ball - Duarte dual was something else. And Sabonis was absolutely beasting, knocking threes and posting Jokic-like numbers, alas in a loss.

But give Charlotte credit, they were getting clocked and turned the game around 100 degrees to pull it out.

Duarte has a really impressive shot. I didn't watch the game, but the highlight I was most impressed with was the three he hoisted near the end of the first quarter, where he looked like he recalculated the shot arc at the peak of his jump and still made the release look "easy". Looked like he has some defensive chops as well.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If Duarte's for real (and I think he may challenge for the All-Rookie Team if not ROY honors), the Pacers will have five wings who are better than league average.

They've got to make a deal at that point, right?

[Bourgeois Zee]

Fearless prediction:

Tyler Herro will win the 2022 Sixth Man of the Year.

[M2]

If Duarte's for real (and I think he may challenge for the All-Rookie Team if not ROY honors), the Pacers will have five wings who are better than league average.

They've got to make a deal at that point, right?

Who are you counting as the five?

[Bourgeois Zee]

Who are you counting as the five?

LeVert, Brogdon, Lamb, Warren, and Duarte.

You could argue Torrey Craig too (though he has issues shooting).

[M2]

LeVert, Brogdon, Lamb, Warren, and Duarte.

You could argue Torrey Craig too (though he has issues shooting).

I count Brogdon as a point (though he can play off ball and shoot from the wing too). I'm thinking Lamb is pretty much average too. Nothing wrong with that. The sleeper who interests me is Oshae Brissett. Has Carlisle got him in the doghouse? He didn't play in the opener. If he is, somebody ought to pounce on that guy.

[15fan]

Hawks w strong opening night showing vs Mavs. 5 starters in double figures and Cam Reddish off the bench w 20 (in 21 minutes) to lead all scorers.

Schedule makers didn’t do Hawks any favors coming out of the starting blocks. 9 of next 12 on road, including @ Phi, Bkn, GS, Phx, Utah and Den.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I count Brogdon as a point (though he can play off ball and shoot from the wing too). I'm thinking Lamb is pretty much average too.

Brogdon's a 'tweener who, IMO, is a (much) better wing-- dead-eye shooter and secondary playmaker.

I'm gonna push back on Lamb as league average. I think he's a league average starter, but well above average as a wing. He's just injury-prone.

[Boston Red]

Enes Kanter is the good kind of troublemaker.

[Chip R]

Phoenix Robert Sarver could be Sterlinged.

https://www.the-sun.com/news/3915727/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-sexual-harassment-claim/

[Revering4Blue]

Hawks w strong opening night showing vs Mavs. 5 starters in double figures and Cam Reddish off the bench w 20 (in 21 minutes) to lead all scorers.

Schedule makers didn’t do Hawks any favors coming out of the starting blocks. 9 of next 12 on road, including @ Phi, Bkn, GS, Phx, Utah and Den.And they were missing Gallo and Lou Williams. Quite impressive.

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[Revering4Blue]

Brogdon's a 'tweener who, IMO, is a (much) better wing-- dead-eye shooter and secondary playmaker.

I'm gonna push back on Lamb as league average. I think he's a league average starter, but well above average as a wing. He's just injury-prone.That's just it. You can't count on Brogdan and Lamb to remain even relatively healthy. And they can't count on Warren to return at even close to optimal strength, if at all. But them's the breaks, as they say.

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[SteelSD]

Well, if you can't score a point for half of the fourth quarter you don't deserve to win the game, but that doesn't excuse the completely asinine officiating tonight. Good lord.

[Betterread]

Does a home loss of 32 points to Toronto mean that the idea of starting Marcus Smart at PG is over?
Really bad night for Boston sports. The redsox lost LCS to the Astros. Their manager (suspended for cheating) couldn’t even beat the team he coached ( and cheated for) before joining the redsox.
Why not try a different approach with that sport also?

[Stray]

Lakers are a mess right now

[BuckeyeRed27]

Lakers are a mess right now

That’s a shame.

[M2]

Does a home loss of 32 points to Toronto mean that the idea of starting Marcus Smart at PG is over?
Really bad night for Boston sports. The redsox lost LCS to the Astros. Their manager (suspended for cheating) couldn’t even beat the team he coached ( and cheated for) before joining the redsox.
Why not try a different approach with that sport also?

Revs just won the Supporters Shield, not that the Boston sports media will notice.

Fewer minutes for Smart would be my first move if I was running the Celtics.

[M2]

Indiana beat the Heat tonight, and Brissett got some serious minutes. Those two things don't seem coincidental.

And the Cavs beat the Hawks thanks to ... Ricky Rubio? The first week of the season is a peculiar time.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Indiana beat the Heat tonight, and Brissett got some serious minutes. Those two things don't seem coincidental.

Lowry didn't play, and Butler and Adebayo shot miserably. Herro was the only guy scoring for the Heat-- 30 pts and 10 rebounds, despite a 3-12 3-point percentage.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The TWolves are 2-0 despite being pitiful shooting. DLo hasn't gotten on track yet. 7 TO in 29 minutes-- woof. Beasley as an expensive, seldom-used backup is... an interesting move. But that offense-- with KAT in the middle playing point center, it's a lot of fun. So far this season, he's doing his best Jokic impression. That's the best use of his talents, IMO.

The Grizzlies are also 2-0. Love the three-guard lineup with Melton, Bane, and Morant. You'd think that'd make them weak on the board. Not so. Both Bane and Melton are good there. They might have lucked into that lineup, with Culver and Brooks out. With Adams and Jackson (plus Clarke), they've got some upside too. Both teams are sneaky good early this season.

[Betterread]

Twolves have won their first two games by causing 54 turnovers. Houston and a New Orleans team missing Zion are weaker teams but the Twolves are playing demonstrably better defense so far, causing a lot of deflections and altered shots with length and effort. They will struggle with rebounding, as they really need another big. They could trade Beasley for that type of player as he isn’t doing much so far (might not be in midseason fitness) but shooting is so valuable in today’s game I see him being useful soon.

[Revering4Blue]

Lowry didn't play, and Butler and Adebayo shot miserably. Herro was the only guy scoring for the Heat-- 30 pts and 10 rebounds, despite a 3-12 3-point percentage.Brogdan and Duarte were mostly throwing up bricks all night. And Turner, who was beasting friday night, was in foul trouble most of the night. And of course, no Warren or LeVert. In other words, all factors should have added up to a Heat victory.



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[M2]

Twolves have won their first two games by causing 54 turnovers. Houston and a New Orleans team missing Zion are weaker teams but the Twolves are playing demonstrably better defense so far, causing a lot of deflections and altered shots with length and effort. They will struggle with rebounding, as they really need another big. They could trade Beasley for that type of player as he isn’t doing much so far (might not be in midseason fitness) but shooting is so valuable in today’s game I see him being useful soon.

They've got Naz Reid if they want extra glass cleaning. Jarred Vanderbilt also looks like rebounding is his gig. Though they probably should just wait to see if KAT and McDaniels start grabbing more boards, seeing that the +/- of the starting unit is off the charts. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm a little bullish on the Wolves. They've even got the makings of a functional second unit. They seem like a real contender for that 7-10 mix.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Interested in seeing what Brooklyn does today against Charlotte.

LaMelo should dominate, but I suspect Nash will let pre-Paul, pre-Westbrook, pre-Kyrie James Harden eat. Were I Nash, I'd bring Patty Mills in to start with Harden, Harris, Durant, and Claxton, then bring Thomas, Carter, Millsap, Griffin, and Aldridge off the bench as the second unit. Let Millsap post underneath, while Aldridge and Griffin roam the perimeter, if need be to get spacing.

Golden State at Sacramento might also be interesting. Walton's gone small for the most part, sacrificing the ego Marvin Bagley's ego at the altar of get out and run. Haliburton, Fox, Hield, and Barnes around a center combination of Richaun Holmes and Tristan Thompson is a fun team to watch. If Davion Mitchell gets untracked, that team could be a real problem for older legs. They might feast on the second game of back-to-backs.

[Bourgeois Zee]

They've got Naz Reid if they want extra glass cleaning. Jarred Vanderbilt also looks like rebounding is his gig. Though they probably should just wait to see if KAT and McDaniels start grabbing more boards, seeing that the +/- of the starting unit is off the charts. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm a little bullish on the Wolves. They've even got the makings of a functional second unit. They seem like a real contender for that 7-10 mix.

They need a defender. IMO, Jarred Vanderbilt would complement KAT underneath nearly perfectly. He could sell out as a defender and rebounder and stick to the dunking spot on offense, a la prime career Ben Wallace. Vanderbilt's per 100 rebounding numbers last year nearly double McDaniels'. His career per 36 rate is elite as well. He's a better passer and he makes more steals as well. He's not as good offensively overall and still has absolutely no range. But in Minnesota, that might be a net positive. There's not enough ball for KAT, Edwards, DLo, and Beasley now.

Minnesota sees McDaniels as a Scottie Pippen clone, though-- he's going to get tons of minutes until they discover he just doesn't move as well as they think he does.

[M2]

They need a defender. IMO, Jarred Vanderbilt would complement KAT underneath nearly perfectly. He could sell out as a defender and rebounder and stick to the dunking spot on offense, a la prime career Ben Wallace. Vanderbilt's per 100 rebounding numbers last year nearly double McDaniels'. His career per 36 rate is elite as well. He's a better passer and he makes more steals as well. He's not as good offensively overall and still has absolutely no range. But in Minnesota, that might be a net positive. There's not enough ball for KAT, Edwards, DLo, and Beasley now.

Minnesota sees McDaniels as a Scottie Pippen clone, though-- he's going to get tons of minutes until they discover he just doesn't move as well as they think he does.

Seems like it's a decision between Vanderbilt and Beasley or McDaniels and Okogie.

[M2]

So far tonight:

Miles Bridges went 32/9 and tore down the Nets.
Seth Curry went 7-10 from 3 on his way to 28 points in a walk over OKC.
Cole Anthony put on a Magic show, going 29/16/8 as Orlando beat the Knicks.
And it turns out that what the Celtics really needed was more Al Horford, who went 17/10 with a game high +18 against Houston.

[Betterread]

They need a defender. IMO, Jarred Vanderbilt would complement KAT underneath nearly perfectly. He could sell out as a defender and rebounder and stick to the dunking spot on offense, a la prime career Ben Wallace. Vanderbilt's per 100 rebounding numbers last year nearly double McDaniels'. His career per 36 rate is elite as well. He's a better passer and he makes more steals as well. He's not as good offensively overall and still has absolutely no range. But in Minnesota, that might be a net positive. There's not enough ball for KAT, Edwards, DLo, and Beasley now.

Minnesota sees McDaniels as a Scottie Pippen clone, though-- he's going to get tons of minutes until they discover he just doesn't move as well as they think he does.

They need a physical defender. The tallest physical player they have is Anthony Edwards at 6’6” . Towns is a finesse player. He can’t hold up to Jonas Valunciunas, EmBiid, Capela, etc. Turner from Indiana would be ideal, but Indiana would be crazy to trade him.
I see McDaniels’ potential too. It’s just hard playing with Edwards, Dlo and KAT. Not too many other shots to go around. But he’s not a great rebounder. The best potential rebounder is Edwards, per one of his latest quotes:
“In the preseason I was just out there to be out there. But I’m here now.” Be afraid.

[M2]

They need a physical defender. The tallest physical player they have is Anthony Edwards at 6’6” . Towns is a finesse player. He can’t hold up to Jonas Valunciunas, EmBiid, Capela, etc. Turner from Indiana would be ideal, but Indiana would be crazy to trade him.
I see McDaniels’ potential too. It’s just hard playing with Edwards, Dlo and KAT. Not too many other shots to go around. But he’s not a great rebounder. The best potential rebounder is Edwards, per one of his latest quotes:
“In the preseason I was just out there to be out there. But I’m here now.” Be afraid.

I am not a Turner fan (e.g. he doesn't rebound well). So I'd do Turner for Beasley and McDaniels (and maybe a draft pick) in a heartbeat.

[adkindo]

Good news....Lakers finally won a game. Bad news....needed Melo to carry them in scoring.

[Revering4Blue]

I am not a Turner fan (e.g. he doesn't rebound well).
It's absolutely baffling that Turner always seems to be out of position, leading to missed rebounding opportunities. It's indefensible, as several renowned rim-protectors of both the past and present still managed to rebound as players their size should.

Pacers fans aught to be used to starting centers rebounding as though they were/are a foot shorter than they were/are: Neither 7'4" Rik Smits nor 7'2" Roy Hibbert - both starting centers for contending Pacers cores - could rebound worth a damn either.


So I'd do Turner for Beasley and McDaniels (and maybe a draft pick) in a heartbeat.
Throw in a 1st round pick swap option to convey (if at all) during specified seasons, and I'd do it were I Indiana. But I'm not sure Minnesota would, as they may regret parting with McDaniels - should he develop as expected. But there's no doubt that Turner, even with rebounding deficiencies, would be an ideal fit next to KAT. And Isaiah Jackson, who may well develop into an improved version of Turner, given his ability to switch out and guard the perimeter, and Goga, provided he can stay healthy, may make Turner expendable.

If not Minny, perhaps San Antonio and/or Dallas could make a run at Turner.

[Revering4Blue]

Good news....Lakers finally won a game. Bad news....needed Melo to carry them in scoring.
Agreed.

And while he's obviously no star, THT's loss has been vastly understated by the talking heads out there.

[Revering4Blue]

Wow! How about the Cavs winning convincingly on the road against Denver?

Tonight's game demonstrated that it's too early to shovel dirt on Kevin Love. And I'm still amazed that the Cavs were able to acquire Jarret Allen, who was beasting tonight against Jokic and company, for essentially nothing.

[Mutaman]

Champs without Holiday, Lopez, Portis and di Vincenzo, still roll over Indiana on the road. Giannis in postseason form, Allen fitting in nicely , Nwora looks like a ballplayer.

[M2]

General thought on Ja Morant, a player with his handle and ability to get to the rim becomes kind of unstoppable once you've spaced out a defense. Seems like what he's figured out is he can get 1v1 going downhill anytime he wants it. Also, his deep shooting is way better, so you can't sag off him. That young man is a handful.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wow! How about the Cavs winning convincingly on the road against Denver?

Tonight's game demonstrated that it's too early to shovel dirt on Kevin Love. And I'm still amazed that the Cavs were able to acquire Jarret Allen, who was beasting tonight against Jokic and company, for essentially nothing.

Cavs need more shooting, but they certainly aren’t bad. If Love can play 70 games and give them 15/7 they are gonna be in the play in games.

Also really like Mobley. There’s no way he isn’t a star, great pick.

[Rojo Rijo]

Wow! How about the Cavs winning convincingly on the road against Denver?

Tonight's game demonstrated that it's too early to shovel dirt on Kevin Love. And I'm still amazed that the Cavs were able to acquire Jarret Allen, who was beasting tonight against Jokic and company, for essentially nothing.

Their lineup is wild but I like it because Mark can shoot. Pretty much two 6 foot guards and three 7 footers.

[adkindo]

After watching the Lakers last night, it is clear their biggest issue on offense is going to be trying to figure out how to play Lebron and Westbrook at the same time. Russ looked like a completely different player without Lebron on the court. Of course a team would rather have Lebron over Russ, but honestly there were stretches last night that highlighted how the offense can actually run better through Russ compared to going through Lebron. Lebron is a ball stopper too often at this point in his career, and really slows the pace down....which will almost always diminish off ball movement and overall engagement from other players.

I wish this was their only problem.....their biggest issue is still team defense. Hopefully that will be helped as several players get healthy and return.

[Bourgeois Zee]

After watching the Lakers last night, it is clear their biggest issue on offense is going to be trying to figure out how to play Lebron and Westbrook at the same time.

I'm guessing they'll start both, then quickly sit Westbrook until LeBron needs a blow, then let Russ eat with the second unit. At the end of games, when possessions become more important, slowing down is fine. So is being a ball hog (if you're the best player on the court).

Based on the first few games, I'm guessing Kendrick Nunn (or perhaps THT) will play most of their minutes with LeBron.

The real key is going to be when to sit AD. And who comes in for him. They haven't tried much of the AD-at-center idea they said they were going to go with yet.

I'd probably give LeBron Monk, Nunn, Carmelo, and Howard. Rajon Rondo could also be a part of that squad, in place of either guard.

I'd give Westbrook most of AD's minutes, Bazemore, Ellington/ Bradley, and THT or DeAndre Jordan (depending on matchups).

[BillDoran]

I don't think any team relying on Melo to be more than a 9th or 10th man is legitimate. His defense is atrocious, and his scoring is hit-or-miss. He's what the metrics say he is, replacement level or worse.

There's a reason he washed out in OKC, Houston and only caught on with a desperate Portland team.

He does not play winning basketball. He's out there solely to pad his career numbers. His HOF persona and friends in the league make it especially hard to sit him when you need to. Cut bait, let him collect points on some tanking team.

[M2]

After watching the Lakers last night, it is clear their biggest issue on offense is going to be trying to figure out how to play Lebron and Westbrook at the same time. Russ looked like a completely different player without Lebron on the court. Of course a team would rather have Lebron over Russ, but honestly there were stretches last night that highlighted how the offense can actually run better through Russ compared to going through Lebron. Lebron is a ball stopper too often at this point in his career, and really slows the pace down....which will almost always diminish off ball movement and overall engagement from other players.

I wish this was their only problem.....their biggest issue is still team defense. Hopefully that will be helped as several players get healthy and return.

Last week Jalen Rose was making the point that Russ has led the league in assists three of the past four season and is still one of the more devastating high tempo PGs around. So if you've got him, it doesn't make sense to tell him to stand in the corner while LeBron plays a two-man game with AD. They've got to give Russ the ball and let him get after it. Note how AD had a monster game when they did that. Guys who play with Russ - KD, PG, Harden, Beal - have always scored in droves.

So I agree LeBron is the one who needs to adjust the most. They definitely need more of an everybody-eats model on offense.

[Big Red Smokey]

Twolves somehow gave the Bucks their first wire to wire loss at FiServ Forum tonight.

Anthony Edwards is special

[Kingspoint]

They need a defender. IMO, Jarred Vanderbilt would complement KAT underneath nearly perfectly. He could sell out as a defender and rebounder and stick to the dunking spot on offense, a la prime career Ben Wallace. Vanderbilt's per 100 rebounding numbers last year nearly double McDaniels'. His career per 36 rate is elite as well. He's a better passer and he makes more steals as well. He's not as good offensively overall and still has absolutely no range. But in Minnesota, that might be a net positive. There's not enough ball for KAT, Edwards, DLo, and Beasley now.

Minnesota sees McDaniels as a Scottie Pippen clone, though-- he's going to get tons of minutes until they discover he just doesn't move as well as they think he does.

I do believe Vanderbilt got the start tonight in the huge win vs the Bucks.

[adkindo]

Lakers lead OKC 41-19 after the 1st Quarter.....and somehow manage to lose the game. Just embarrassing.

Westbrook with the Quadruple Double.....including turnovers.

[RedTeamGo!]

Are the Cavs good?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Are the Cavs good?

I’m looking up playoffs ticket information today.

[RedTeamGo!]

I watched most of the first half last night, so much speed in the back court and so much length in the front court. If Sexton and Garland are legit this team is dangerous.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I watched most of the first half last night, so much speed in the back court and so much length in the front court. If Sexton and Garland are legit this team is dangerous.

Length is causing a lot of defensive problems. We will see if it’s sustainable but they’ve given up 95, 87 and 79 during this win streak.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I do believe Vanderbilt got the start tonight in the huge win vs the Bucks.

He did-- and he delivered. 13 rebounds, 11 points (almost entirely on dunks and put-backs), plus a steal and three assists.

He also guarded Giannis most of the night and got his lunch handed to him, but Giannis was relatively on fire from deep-- 50% from three and several long twos on shots you want him to take.

DLo was very good last night-- he hit as many threes and long twos as Giannis did-- but Edwards was the difference late. He made two big-time moves on Middleton to ice the game when it got close.

BTW, so far this season, KAT is playing some serious defense. That energy isn't likely to last, but in a short playoff series, it might. If they can get there, Minnesota might be uniquely set up to be a problem for a team like Utah or Denver.

[M2]

Are the Cavs good?

I'll lean toward no. I suspect opponents to blitz their backcourt and tear them apart on the wings as the season wears on, but they can give you a game. Underappreciated thing about the NBA, IMO, is there's a lot of capable players, even on the bad teams.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'll lean toward no. I suspect opponents to blitz their backcourt and tear them apart on the wings as the season wears on, but they can give you a game. Underappreciated thing about the NBA, IMO, is there's a lot of capable players, even on the bad teams.

I like that the Cavs are trying to make things interesting in a wholly different way. The combination of unleashed Jarrett Allen and rookie Evan Mobley make that possible. So does the shooting of the Lauri Markkanen/ Kevin Love duo. Mobley is good enough defensively to really limit wings, btw. He can eat them alive. In this sequence against the Hawks, Mobley guards Reddish, Trae Young, and John Collins out on the floor, sticks with them, and find a way to alter shots, block shots, or just steal the ball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA1LEnyTMR4

Some interesting analysis here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9FJ9M9_FWU

[adkindo]

Lakers have won 3 games......2 of them have been as a result of big nights from Carmelo Anthony. Does not seem like a good long term strategy.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Lakers have won 3 games......2 of them have been as a result of big nights from Carmelo Anthony. Does not seem like a good long term strategy.

Beat a playoff team last night at least.

[adkindo]

Beat a playoff team last night at least.

Cleveland? They are talented enough to be in the mix, but they are young and will have to prove it over 82 games. Definitely headed in the right direction, and a fun team.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Lakers have won 3 games......2 of them have been as a result of big nights from Carmelo Anthony. Does not seem like a good long term strategy.

Anthony as the third scorer is fine. He can do that and should be expected to do it. With AD inside, LeBron on the ball, and Westbrook flying up and down the court, he should have single coverage and wide-open shots pretty much any time he's on the court. So should the other Laker in that scenario, whether it be Monk, Reaves (ugh), Bazemore, Ellington, or Nunn.

As long as you don't expect him to play defense, he'll be a great addition.

Unfortunately, due to Westbrook's nature as an aggressive, gambling defender, more pressure will be put on secondary defenders. His teammates aren't used to that yet. AD and James are smart enough to figure it out if they have to, but it'll take time. Kendrick Nunn should help with that. If he's going to be that SG. Monk... will probably not. LA would be better, I suspect, if they let Nunn play the more traditional PG spot.

Again, the Lakers will be a better team when they realize Westbrook is better at running the second unit and freelancing with shooters and long defenders. Howard, Westbrook, Monk, Ellington, and Bazemore as a second unit could be remarkably effective. Westbrook with LeBron and AD just doesn't work.

[adkindo]

Anthony as the third scorer is fine. He can do that and should be expected to do it. With AD inside, LeBron on the ball, and Westbrook flying up and down the court, he should have single coverage and wide-open shots pretty much any time he's on the court.

Maybe, but they can't expect him to have nights like he has had in the two wins (9 of 12 FG | 6 of 8 3FG against Cleveland & 10 of 15 FG | 6 of 8 3FG against Memphis) very often.....and it was not all wide open shots last night.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Maybe, but they can't expect him to have nights like he has had in the two wins (9 of 12 FG | 6 of 8 3FG against Cleveland & 10 of 15 FG | 6 of 8 3FG against Memphis) very often.....and it was not all wide open shots last night.

Melo's turned into a great shooter over the past three seasons. While he won't be at that level, he will continue to get wide-open looks as the fourth-best offensive player on the floor. With Westbrook and LeBron bending the defense away from him and AD being played straight up (and often double-teamed), Anthony's going to get a lot of open looks. I could totally see him shoot 44+% from deep and over 50% for the first time in his career.

[M2]

Dejounte Murray is off to a torrid start. Went 23/5/9 tonight as the Spurs beat the defending champs.

And someone breakup the Wizlets. They're 5-1.

[Bourgeois Zee]

It's early, but there are definitely some conclusions we can come up with on the 2021 - 2022 season:

- Golden State is for real.
Stephen Curry continues to play at an MVP level, and everyone else is playing well. I'm not sure if that's an early-season mirage or Kerr finding a rotation and offense that works. What's interesting is that they might have more in the tank. Kerr hasn't yet unleashed Otto Porter and Juan Toscano-Anderson as a forward combination of deadly shooters and adept defenders, but it's coming. So too is the season debut of Klay Thompson, who'll make one of Damion Lee or Jordan Poole a Sixth Man of the Year candidate. If Nemanja Bjelica's early-season shooting holds out, I really like the Warriors as the team to beat in the West.

- Oklahoma State is the worst team in the league.
And OKC is on the other end. There are a bunch of truly bad teams right now. Houston's taking much longer to get Josh Green situated than I thought. Kevin Porter has been just as bad, perhaps worse. Orlando's a mess, with 118 guards, 57 centers, and no wings despite the fact that they've drafted wings in every draft for a thousand years. The Clippers aren't much better and have their own problems, but at least they can blame that fact on having a couple starters on the shelf. They should all get better.

What's the Thunder's excuse?

Only SGA seems to be a first-division starter in this league-- and he's struggling under the weight of double- and sometimes triple teams. Giddey is one of a multitude of guys they'll have to fix in order to make him a good player. That takes time-- and luck. So many of OKC's players can't shoot. Like, at all. It's fine to have one Dort on your team, but it's impossible to have four or sometimes five in the starting lineup and two more coming off the bench and expect to succeed in this league. They need to find some shooters yesterday. And I'm not sure they understand how important that seems to be. OKC is wholly uninterested in playing the game of basketball right now-- and this is the second season in a row they've been nigh-on unwatchable.

Ick.

- Miami's defense might be historical.
Who knew adding three alpha dogs in Tucker, Morris, and Lowry to a team known for its willingness to do dirty things would be so beneficial to ensure that all the little things get done? Butler and Bam are All-Star types, but everyone else is a role player who knows and accepts his role without reservation. The beauty of that is that the sum is better than the parts-- and the parts are all pretty good individually. Everyone's bought in. Even Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson. Speaking of Robinson, the Heat's shooting has gotten untracked this year, but it's hardly seemed to matter. In other words, they have another gear. Be afraid, Eastern Conference. Be very afraid.

- Some stars have been hurt by the NBA's new crackdown on offensive players initiating contact for the foul.
It's hard to get right if you're not getting the calls you're used to getting. Devin Booker hasn't gotten a couple of free throws a game. That doesn't sound like much, right? But so many of these superstars shoot free throws at elite levels that those two points a game are easy money. James Harden and Trae Young are getting half the calls they got a couple of years ago. That adds up to five or six points a game. Joel Embiid is taking two less free throws this season so far-- which drops his PER from otherworldly to merely All-NBA. Ditto Doncic. Dame's free throws have dropped more than that-- and it's perhaps affected him most of all the superstars.

They'll adapt-- superstars always do-- but it may take some time. And it will be fascinating to see how these guys do that.

- New Orleans sucks without Zion Williamson-- but Jonas Valanciunas is severely underrated.

Dude is 29 and gobbling up rebounds like it's the early 70's over here, and absolutely no one seems to notice or care. Such has been his life since... forever. Valančiūnas willingly took a back seat in Toronto in order to unlock the secret of Dwayne Casey's guard-heavy offense. He took few shots, rebounded well, played great defense, and generally stayed out of the way. Dealt to Memphis, he opened up his offensive playbook for a team no one outside of the 901 watches. He's become a very good stretch five capable (and willing) to shoot at a 36+% rate. Not only that, he still rebounds everything and plays adequately on defense. This year, he's become a secondary fulcrum around NOLA's offense out of necessity. He's proven up to the task, spitting out nearly three assists per game as well as adding two more free throw attempts at an elite level (almost 90%). Put another way, Valančiūnas has an outside chance at pulling a 50/ 40/ 90.

He's 29, so he's got some life left on those tires, and lots of teams could use a playmaking center who can stretch on offense, still rebound, and play solid defense.

- The Clippers suck without Kawhi Leonard-- full stop.
Pity Playoff PG. When Luke Kennard is arguably your second-best teammate, there's big trouble in LA. Worse, beyond Leonard, there's not much in the cupboard. Old vets have suddenly looked dusted-- I'm looking at you, Nic Batum, Eric Bledsoe, and Marcus Morris-- and the young guys haven't stepped up. (Terance Mann has been... okay instead of above average.) Worse, there's no room in the budget for the foreseeable future. Kawhi should have never left Toronto.

- There might be a couple teams ready to take a leap.
There are some of the usual suspects with two players among the top 25 in terms of PER-- Philadelphia has Embiid and Harris, Phoenix has Paul and Ayton, Atlanta has Young and Collins, the aforementioned Miami has Bam and Butler up there as well. Playoff teams, all. But there are a couple of teams who might actually be ready to take that next leap.

Sacramento has Richaun Holmes and Harrison Barnes, their third and fourth-best players (or maybe, depending on the day of the week, fifth and sixth) reaching heights they never had before. Barnes, finally playing his best position as a hybrid PF mismatch, is being super aggressive offensively and shooting with a new-found confidence from deep. He's also rebounding at an exceptional level and passing the ball better than he has in years without turning the ball over. Holmes is finishing at an elite level, almost entirely at the rim. He's also rebounding and passing well. (The entire Kings' roster-- with the exception of Bagley-- seems to have bought in to looking for the best shot.) Fox and Haliburton as co-lead guards has been a joy to watch-- Hield is getting open looks, and Davion Mitchell has shown some talent already. They might have another level in them.

Memphis is also showing out, but it's not would-be number two Jaren Jackson who's led them up that hill. It's the three-guard lineup of Morant (taking the next leap into the superstar, All-NBA team strata), Desmond Bane, and De-Anthony Melton, plus the passing of Stephen Adams. Bane and Melton have been dead-eyes on threes so far, averaging over 40% apiece. They've also played exceptional defense. (The injury to Dillon Brooks may well have been a blessing in disguise.) Both play tough, hard-nose, physical brands of ball, with Melton in particular putting forth his best Thybulle impression. If Brooks comes back willing to play 6th man, they should have he, Xavier Tillman, and Brandon Clarke to pair with Tyus Jones and Slo-Mo Kyle Anderson for a solid bench. That team might be able to pile up some wins and mess up the whole Western Conference. They'll be a tough out, I suspect, come playoff time too.

[SteelSD]

It's early, but there are definitely some conclusions we can come up with on the 2021 - 2022 season:

- Some stars have been hurt by the NBA's new crackdown on offensive players initiating contact for the foul.
It's hard to get right if you're not getting the calls you're used to getting. Devin Booker hasn't gotten a couple of free throws a game. That doesn't sound like much, right? But so many of these superstars shoot free throws at elite levels that those two points a game are easy money. James Harden and Trae Young are getting half the calls they got a couple of years ago. That adds up to five or six points a game. Joel Embiid is taking two less free throws this season so far-- which drops his PER from otherworldly to merely All-NBA. Ditto Doncic. Dame's free throws have dropped more than that-- and it's perhaps affected him most of all the superstars.

They'll adapt-- superstars always do-- but it may take some time. And it will be fascinating to see how these guys do that.

FYI- Unlike the rest of the players you hit on, Embiid's FT drop isn't impacted by the new officiating. The swim-through rule change is what he had to adjust to a couple years back. It's a combination of a number of other things- slightly fewer minutes, a lower rate of post-ups, and fewer shots per game coupled with a higher rate of mid-range shots (slightly higher rate of threes too). Embiid is still bothered by his knee and is also now handling the ball more with his face to the basket to see double teams coming.

The rest of the guys, yep. For sure. For example, other than one moment where the officials lost their minds and called a foul on a jump-back, Trae Young was simply a low shooting rate/high-volume distributor last night- which is what he's always been without the free throws. I've said this before- I have little doubt that the new rules are going to affect Young more than anyone else because he's not a shooter and now there's no disincentive to guard him on drives.

Other Sixers items from last night...

Matisse Thybulle's defense is unfair. He reminds me of the Impossible Man from the Fantastic Four comics; seemingly replicating himself anywhere on the court and turning into whatever he can imagine at will. Impy had four steals and three blocks last night to go with 11 points. Two of the blocks- both on Cam Reddish (who was Atlanta's best player)- were crazy. The second block, where Thybulle closed on Reddish from behind, grabbed the ball in flight, spiked it straight into the ground, and stole it was...dare I say it...impossible. Yeah, the nickname is probably too long to catch on, but Thybulle appears to be leading the NBA in Stocks while playing @20 minutes per game.

When Seth Curry misses, you want to yell at the ball for not doing its job. Curry is currently hitting 63% of his threes, with an Effective Shooting Rate of 77% on the season.

I still don't know how Tobias Harris puts up 20-and-10 lines. But he did it last night while turning John Collins into a complete non-factor.

Danilo Gallinari is a child. Ever looking for a new way to act like an arse, Gallinari picked up a Flagrant 1 for kicking Thybulle after losing the ball to him.

Cam Reddish was impressive last night. Showed a pretty good handle and displayed a really nice shooting stroke. I don't really understand why Atlanta doesn't move him into the starting lineup and have Hunter come off the bench instead.

Tyrese Maxey probably won't ever be a high-assist point guard, but he's the only guy on the team with an actual handle and he's playing really well both offensively and defensively. If he keeps working on his three-point shot, he's gonna' be a problem.

[M2]

I'm going to spill a secret about Tobias Harris, he's a really good player. He can get buckets from everywhere. He defends on the interior and perimeter. He rebounds. He moves the ball. And he's perfectly happy to do it all in the shadows.

[SteelSD]

I'm going to spill a secret about Tobias Harris, he's a really good player. He can get buckets from everywhere. He defends on the interior and perimeter. He rebounds. He moves the ball. And he's perfectly happy to do it all in the shadows.

Shhhhhhhh...

[M2]

Serious question, whose trade value is dropping faster: Ben Simmons' by not playing or Dame Lillard's by playing like he got old all of a sudden?

[M2]

I'm going to stake out the territory that Grayson Allen getting 30 minutes a night for the defending champs is not a stellar idea. I know their injury list is running pretty deep right now, but I'd make lowering his minutes a priority.

[Betterread]

I'm going to spill a secret about Tobias Harris, he's a really good player. He can get buckets from everywhere. He defends on the interior and perimeter. He rebounds. He moves the ball. And he's perfectly happy to do it all in the shadows.
We know that Philly liked him better than Jimmy Buckets, and we know how that turned out.
Sounds like you like him. So trade JBrown for him. Boson is going nowhere with their glut of wings.

[SteelSD]

Serious question, whose trade value is dropping faster: Ben Simmons' by not playing or Dame Lillard's by playing like he got old all of a sudden?

I'm not sure what the pulse is in the NBA, of course. But after seeing Lillard put up a 5-for-20, 2-for14 from deep line against the Hornets, I'm starting to wonder.

Speaking of wondering...what in hades is going on with Indiana? That is not a team devoid of talent.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm not sure what the pulse is in the NBA, of course. But after seeing Lillard put up a 5-for-20, 2-for14 from deep line against the Hornets, I'm starting to wonder.

Speaking of wondering...what in hades is going on with Indiana? That is not a team devoid of talent.Three of Indiana's losses have been by one possession. No time to panic yet. But they really lack athleticism at the three with their rotational players other than Craig. To that end, M2 is spot on about the need for more minutes for Brissett, especially since you cannot count on Warren's health.

And Sabonis has at times, Saturday night against Toronto, for example, fallen too in love with hoisting threes that aren't falling when he should be having his way down low against smaller front lines - true centers aren't exactly stopping him down low either - and/or looking for cutters to the hoop from the top of the key.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[M2]

We know that Philly liked him better than Jimmy Buckets, and we know how that turned out.
Sounds like you like him. So trade JBrown for him. Boson is going nowhere with their glut of wings.

I think it was that Harris was willing to sign and Butler wanted to go to Miami (as you know, Jimmy calls his own shots). How it's turned out is pretty well. They've won a lot of games, finishing 1st in the East last season. They've got three more years to see if they can make it payoff in a championship.

Side note, I'm not a Boston fan, and I'm not sure two guys is a glut.

[Betterread]

I'm not sure two guys is a glut.
Other Boston wings (6j - Langford, Nesmith, Richardson, Parker, Brown, Tatum, and I would add Smart (though Boston plays him at PG)

[M2]

Other Boston wings (6j - Langford, Nesmith, Richardson, Parker, Brown, Tatum, and I would add Smart (though Boston plays him at PG)

And outside of Brown and Tatum, I'd classify the rest of that group (including Smart) as expendable. Seems to me the Celtics' problem isn't their two good players, but that the rest of the team isn't good enough.

[Stray]

Dejounte Murray has quietly been really good this year. Spurs have a lot to sort out, but he's a dude to build around.

[adkindo]

Lebron going to start getting jealous......'Melo has quickly became the fan favorite @ Staples.

[15fan]

Wiz and Hawks combined to go 45-45 from FT line tonight.

[M2]

The Celtics went into the 4th quarter tonight with a 14-point lead on the Bulls, and ended up losing by 14. DeRo dropped 37 for the winning side. I don't know if he'll be this good for all three years of his contract, but he's looking like a money signing for 2021-22.

[SteelSD]

No Simmons, no Tobias, no Embiid, and half of a Danny Green? No problem against the Blazers.

Wha?

Seth Curry did Seth Curry things. The Minivan (Georges Niang) looked more like loaded tour bus, putting up 21 points and was one of five Sixers with 5 or more Assists. Player of the game was likely Andre Drummond, who posted a 14-point, 15-board, 7 Assist, 5 Steals, 0 Turnover line filling in for a resting Embiid. Tyrese Maxey took on his second consecutive tough defensive assignment, guarding Lillard, who was held to 7-of-20 from the floor (2-for-9 from deep). Dame might have been left wondering if it was a good idea to get on the team plane to fly home, especially after Sixers fans were chanting "We want Lillard!" early in the contest.

[M2]

Domantas Sabonis took R4B's advice and got to work inside tonight, going 11-15 on his way to 24/13/6 in a win over the Spurs.

[SteelSD]

Domantas Sabonis took R4B's advice and got to work inside tonight, going 11-15 on his way to 24/13/6 in a win over the Spurs.

See, all Indiana needed was for me to question them. Motivation! ;)

[Revering4Blue]

Domantas Sabonis took R4B's advice and got to work inside tonight, going 11-15 on his way to 24/13/6 in a win over the Spurs.And if that weren't enough, Myles Turner has been playing like a man possessed and actually posting solid rebounding lines since you called him out.

Meanwhile,

The Bucks, short handed as they are, continue to do nothing except win, often convincingly

The red-hot, short-handed Bulls finally fail to pull out a win, as they fall to short-handed Philly.

The short-handed Cavs have posted two wins in a row - one, on the road to full-strength Charlotte. Props to J.B Bickerstaff and company.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[RedTeamGo!]

Jarrett Allen is turning into a star.

In the win against Portland tonight he had 24 points and 17 rebounds. 4 assists, 1 block, 1 steal to go with it.

As an aside: Kevin Pangos is warming the bench for the Cavs. I remember that dude on the Zags. Can’t believe he’s still being paid to play ball.

[M2]

I don't toss a lot of bouquets Myles Turner's way, but he went 27/13 and ate Mitchell Robinson alive tonight. Well done.

[M2]

BTW, the Warriors are a great watch so far this season. They run, they shoot, they swarm on defense and they move the ball better than anyone else I've seen so far.

[KoryMac5]

Jalen Brunson seems to be a nice pairing with Doncic...31 pts and 10 rebounds last night against the Spurs.

[adkindo]

BTW, the Warriors are a great watch so far this season. They run, they shoot, they swarm on defense and they move the ball better than anyone else I've seen so far.

It will be interesting to see how Klay fits back in with them.....or basically how the current Klay will compare to the old Klay.

[Boston Red]

Just noticed that Jordan Clarkson was 1-13 (0-11 from 3) Tuesday night in Utah's win over Sacto. Good to know Utah can win even with Clarkson throwing in a complete stinker. Glad to see the Jazz are cruising along early on at 6-1, but given the painful way last season ended I'm having a hard time getting too personally invested in their early success.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Just noticed that Jordan Clarkson was 1-13 (0-11 from 3) Tuesday night in Utah's win over Sacto. Good to know Utah can win even with Clarkson throwing in a complete stinker. Glad to see the Jazz are cruising along early on at 6-1, but given the painful way last season ended I'm having a hard time getting too personally invested in their early success.

Yeah I just assume if healthy they are going to win around 58 games and be the 1 or 2 seed and we will just see how it goes in the playoffs. The goal should be keeping Conley healthy.

[Bourgeois Zee]

This early in the season it's probably a mirage, but the Raptors are 6-3. When comparing their talent level to the rest of the league, that's a preposterous statement and yet another reason why Nick Nurse deserves consideration as the best coach in the NBA. This might be the breakout season everyone predicted for OG Anunoby last year.

[M2]

The goal should be keeping Conley healthy.

So much this. He seems to be the guy who most alters their level.

[M2]

This early in the season it's probably a mirage, but the Raptors are 6-3. When comparing their talent level to the rest of the league, that's a preposterous statement and yet another reason why Nick Nurse deserves consideration as the best coach in the NBA. This might be the breakout season everyone predicted for OG Anunoby last year.

They've got a style - defend like crazy, slow pace, take care of the ball, pound the offensive glass. That team knows what it is.

[SteelSD]

This early in the season it's probably a mirage, but the Raptors are 6-3. When comparing their talent level to the rest of the league, that's a preposterous statement and yet another reason why Nick Nurse deserves consideration as the best coach in the NBA. This might be the breakout season everyone predicted for OG Anunoby last year.

If the Raptors were a 1950's band, their name would be Gary Trent and the Unpronounceables.

[WVRed]

Looks like the Suns owner is about to get Donald Sterlinged:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32440987/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-allegations-racism-misogyny

[Bourgeois Zee]

Looks like the Suns owner is about to get Donald Sterlinged:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32440987/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-allegations-racism-misogyny

If the reports are true (and there are multiple stories with multiple sources, so... yeah), he deserves it.

Dude seems like a true piece of garbage.

[M2]

Sixers started four guards tonight. Seems to be working against the Pistons.

And the Celtics are up 17 against the Heat after the 3rd while Jayson Tatum has posted a goose egg. The set of improbabilities there are positively dada.

[RichRed]

I missed that Bob Dandridge was inducted into the HOF in September. Won championships with the Bucks and Bullets, and scored more points in NBA Finals during the 1970s than any other player. Really happy to see the “Greyhound” get in.

[SteelSD]

Sixers started four guards tonight. Seems to be working against the Pistons.

And the Celtics are up 17 against the Heat after the 3rd while Jayson Tatum has posted a goose egg. The set of improbabilities there are positively dada.

Sixers had no choice due to injuries and Covid protocols. They had all the available guards on their current roster on the floor at tip off, although Thybulle only meets the loosest definition of "guard". They used an 8-man rotation, with Maxey logging 45 minutes on the floor. Oh, to be 20 years old again...

And the first glimpse of the box score I had for the Celts/Heat game showed Tatum at 1-for-11, but sitting at +9, which was the same number of points Miami scored in the second quarter. Did they just forget how to shoot?

[Boston Red]

OKC wish all 82 games were against the Lakers.

[adkindo]

OKC wish all 82 games were against the Lakers.

2nd collapse within a week to them.....not good. At the same time.....really impressed with Carmello so far this season.

[goreds2]

Mil. Bucks lose again tonight. Still early but is this a Championship hangover?

My 76ers playing good without Simmons.

[Stray]

My take on the NBA so far this season is that we shouldn't read too much into anything, good or bad. PG's take on the new Wilson ball was pretty interesting to me, as there's a bunch of shooters who are jus all of a sudden kinda bad.

I do really like the Heat in the East regardless. Lowry is an important add.

[Bourgeois Zee]

My take on the NBA so far this season is that we shouldn't read too much into anything, good or bad. PG's take on the new Wilson ball was pretty interesting to me, as there's a bunch of shooters who are jus all of a sudden kinda bad.

I do really like the Heat in the East regardless. Lowry is an important add.

I think they've played enough of a season for a few observations.

The Warriors look like the team to beat in the West, particularly with Klay coming back in December.

The Heat look like the class of the East, with the addition of Lowry (and perhaps the addition of Dipo in March or April).

[M2]

I still expect the Heat to hit a glide path during the season that keeps them from the top overall seed.

[goreds2]

Should be an interesting game with the 76ers at the surprising Bulls tonight.

[M2]

Should be an interesting game with the 76ers at the surprising Bulls tonight.

Sixers win. Embiid with 30/15. Watch out if he gets going. Furkan Korkmaz with 25. The big takeaway with an 8-2 start is they don't need Ben Simmons to prosper. The pressure to trade him has pretty much evaporated as they continue to rack up wins.

The Heat beat the Jazz tonight. Game was in Miami and that probably was the difference in a 118-115 score.

And general thoughts on the Celtics: they need to find a sucker who'll want Marcus Smart in exchange for a good player. I remain convinced what Boston most needs is a ball-moving big man.

[SteelSD]

Sixers win. Embiid with 30/15. Watch out if he gets going. Furkan Korkmaz with 25. The big takeaway with an 8-2 start is they don't need Ben Simmons to prosper. The pressure to trade him has pretty much evaporated as they continue to rack up wins.

The Heat beat the Jazz tonight. Game was in Miami and that probably was the difference in a 118-115 score.

And general thoughts on the Celtics: they need to find a sucker who'll want Marcus Smart in exchange for a good player. I remain convinced what Boston most needs is a ball-moving big man.

Philly won that game with only 8 players again. They've got an incredibly tough stretch coming up, with a back-to-back at home against NY and then Milwaukee. If one (or both) of those teams don't get them, the young legs of the Raptors might.

Speaking of the Raptors...


17814

Toss in a first rounder from Philly and one from Toronto- both to Portland. Discuss.

[KoryMac5]

Doncic with an absolute dagger last night against the Celtics...step back 3 for the win with no time on the clock. KP also looked really good in his return to the court after some back issues.

[M2]

Philly won that game with only 8 players again. They've got an incredibly tough stretch coming up, with a back-to-back at home against NY and then Milwaukee. If one (or both) of those teams don't get them, the young legs of the Raptors might.

Speaking of the Raptors...


17814

Toss in a first rounder from Philly and one from Toronto- both to Portland. Discuss.

I like pretty much any time we can figure a way for the money to line up in a big trade. Though Simmons heads up for Siakam might be the more likely slice. My questions on that would be does Scottie Barnes already play enough like Simmons that the Raps don't need Simmons, and is Siakam wired the right way to play in Philly? Dame is definitely wired for Philly, but I suspect Portland would need to be mired in a major slump to move him.

[SteelSD]

I like pretty much any time we can figure a way for the money to line up in a big trade. Though Simmons heads up for Siakam might be the more likely slice. My questions on that would be does Scottie Barnes already play enough like Simmons that the Raps don't need Simmons, and is Siakam wired the right way to play in Philly? Dame is definitely wired for Philly, but I suspect Portland would need to be mired in a major slump to move him.

Figured I'd just float the idea. But I'll tell ya', I'm not sure what Dame's heart is telling him right now. He finally had a decent game, but against the Sixers, he looked completely unmotivated. There were a ton of situations where he just let guys blow right by him. I don't know what's going on in his head, of course, but if .500 ball carries on for much longer, he might just ask out. That's not what he stuck around for.

I'm not completely against trading for Siakam, but if I'm Morey, I won't do it one-for-one. I'd probably do it for Siakam, Banton (who, IMHO, was a draft-day steal), and first (top 8 or protected if need be). The injury history and his tanking from deep last year scares me, but Siakam would definitely help on the offensive boards, which is something the Sixers are abyssmal at right now.

[M2]

Ricky Rubio went 8-9 from 3 on his way to 37 tonight. That's wild.

And Gary Payton II is becoming an absolute menace for the Warriors.

[RedTeamGo!]

This Cavs team is a delight. Deep down I know they are a bit of a mirage, but Mobley is going to be a star and Allen already is.

[M2]

This Cavs team is a delight. Deep down I know they are a bit of a mirage, but Mobley is going to be a star and Allen already is.

Everybody's been trying to figure out how to make multiple bigs work out on the court. So far Cleveland's doing it. All credit to them if they can keep it going.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sexton tore his meniscus. They haven’t said how long he will be out.

[M2]

Sexton tore his meniscus. They haven’t said how long he will be out.

I suspect that probably helps them.

[KoryMac5]

If you have the Athletic make sure to check out Tim Cato's article on Boban Marjanovic it is absolute gold...

I had no idea he was in John Wick III...

https://theathletic.com/1916610/2020/07/13/the-nicest-human-ive-ever-met-boban-marjanovic-the-nbas-best-teammate/

[BuckeyeRed27]

I suspect that probably helps them.

Well if Rubio wants to continue playing like Steph.

[M2]

Steph Curry just gave Trae Young a lesson in "you ain't me."

[adkindo]

Jokic deserves a harsh penalty for this bush league crap.....

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1457931673257975809

[Kingspoint]

Markief Morris gets some karma payback.

His fake injury would better anything any soccer player ever attempted.

Nice to see that most of the NBA followers understand the cheapshots that the Morris brothers are known for and one of them finally got payback, but they also understand that Morris is pulling more shenanigans with a fake injury.

Good for Jokic. Nurkic is going to do the same thing pretty soon, as he's as fed up as Jokic from the refs not protecting him. Nurkic literally gets hit in the head at least six times a night without a foul ever being called.

So glad to see Jokic "bump" and embarrass Markief Morris so much that he has to fake an injury (see Michael Porter Junior's missed layup tonight, or any miss by Steph Curry from any game).

[Kingspoint]

Jokic deserves a harsh penalty for this bush league crap.....

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1457931673257975809

He deserves a medal.

[Betterread]

Jokic deserves a harsh penalty for this bush league crap.....

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1457931673257975809

He deserves your respect. He just made Bam and Morris look weak. Not one heat player stepped up to him after he laid out Morris. All fake gangsters on your squad.

[Kingspoint]

He deserves your respect. He just made Bam and Morris look weak. Not one heat player stepped up to him after he laid out Morris. All fake gangsters on your squad.

How about Kat's buzzer-beater tonight?

Amazing!

[Betterread]

How about Kat's buzzer-beater tonight?

Amazing!
It was a temporary reprieve. Jah rules in this game. He plays nasty (sometimes a little dirty, even) defense and hits the boards hard for a superstar PG. I hate it though, when it’s vrs the Twolves, who need some of that aggression.

[M2]

Jokic deserves a harsh penalty for this bush league crap.....

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1457931673257975809

Morris totally dove there. Maybe fine Jokic a few bucks (Morris too). That's about all that merits.

And has anybody noticed what Jokic is doing so far this season? He had a 33.9 PER coming into tonight and it went up. He's absurdly good.

[RedTeamGo!]

Jokic deserves a harsh penalty for this bush league crap.....

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1457931673257975809

Nah, if Morris wants to body Jokic he should be ready for that. His play was Bush.

Don’t mess with us Serbs, we don’t play that trash. I bet next time a 3rd rate player like Morris thinks about trying to get under Jokic’s skin like that they will remember his shoulder.

[UKFlounder]

Wow - Morris took that “injury” to the extreme of the extreme. A stretcher after being pushed in the back? That was as lame as could be.

[Rojo Rijo]

Not enough talk about my Orlando Magic handling the Jazz two nights ago! Between that and my Jaguars beating the Bills I feel like im living in an alternate universe.

Crazy thing is how dominate Cole Anthony has been so far this year while Jalen Suggs has yet to find a rhythm. I think we're seeing more and more why Cole was a consensus top 5 player in his HS class. The injury that took away most of his one season at UNC plus his inconsistency when he did play and his frame (6'2 185) led to him sliding all the way to #15 in the 2019 draft, and boy im glad he did.

His line against Utah - 33 points on 13-20 (5-10 3P) shooting (only 2-2 FT), 3 reb, 2 asst, 3 stl, 2 blk, +14. Wendell Carter was nice too, 22 points on 9-14 (4-7 3P) shooting, 15 reb, 6 asst, 1 blk, +21. Cole is averaging 20/7/5 right now.

This team is starting to put something together. Franz has looked much better than anticipated too. Right now we're running out Cole/Suggs/Franz/Carter/Bamba so im not sure what happens when Isaac and Fultz return. At this point i'd be fine with trading Fultz to a PG needy team. He's extra as we have Cole, Jalen, and RJ all capable of playing lead guard. Isaac if healthy would likely bump out Bamba, though I think Mo would still see 25 minutes a game, especially since Isaac will be handled carefully for probably most if not all of the '21/'22 season. We've also got Chuma who gets 20 min per game. If they can get one more solid contributor in the '22 draft this team is going to be in the playoff mix in 2023.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It was a nice win by Orlando, but it was a schedule win.

[Rojo Rijo]

It was a nice win by Orlando, but it was a schedule win.

Based on how the last 10+ years have gone....I'll take it.

Its way more about how we played than how Utah played. There are multiple bright spots starting to appear on this team. The future no longer looks bleak.

[M2]

Don’t mess with us Serbs, we don’t play that trash.

Bosko's baby mama used to cut my hair.

[M2]

Not enough talk about my Orlando Magic handling the Jazz two nights ago! Between that and my Jaguars beating the Bills I feel like im living in an alternate universe.

Crazy thing is how dominate Cole Anthony has been so far this year while Jalen Suggs has yet to find a rhythm. I think we're seeing more and more why Cole was a consensus top 5 player in his HS class. The injury that took away most of his one season at UNC plus his inconsistency when he did play and his frame (6'2 185) led to him sliding all the way to #15 in the 2019 draft, and boy im glad he did.

His line against Utah - 33 points on 13-20 (5-10 3P) shooting (only 2-2 FT), 3 reb, 2 asst, 3 stl, 2 blk, +14. Wendell Carter was nice too, 22 points on 9-14 (4-7 3P) shooting, 15 reb, 6 asst, 1 blk, +21. Cole is averaging 20/7/5 right now.

This team is starting to put something together. Franz has looked much better than anticipated too. Right now we're running out Cole/Suggs/Franz/Carter/Bamba so im not sure what happens when Isaac and Fultz return. At this point i'd be fine with trading Fultz to a PG needy team. He's extra as we have Cole, Jalen, and RJ all capable of playing lead guard. Isaac if healthy would likely bump out Bamba, though I think Mo would still see 25 minutes a game, especially since Isaac will be handled carefully for probably most if not all of the '21/'22 season. We've also got Chuma who gets 20 min per game. If they can get one more solid contributor in the '22 draft this team is going to be in the playoff mix in 2023.

I don't know if they're coming that fast. Seems like a lot hangs on how fast Suggs acclimates and how good he ultimately gets. He's definitely been experiencing some shock on his initial NBA introduction. Yet, moving forward, Orlando could bolt together some contracts in exchange for a disgruntled star. Here's a random thought: could they get in on Zion if/when New Orleans decides to move him?

[Revering4Blue]

Well if Rubio wants to continue playing like Steph.Once Okoro is healthy, I'd start him opposite Garland, allowing for Rubio, even if logs 'starter' minutes, to continue as supersub. But the onus is on at least two of Okoro, Osman and Windler to contribute while Sexton and Mark are out.

As for Sexton's best role, no matter if he remains a Cav or not, I've long since believed he would be best served in a Jordan Clarkson type bench role, and I've gleaned nothing to change my mind. Sort of a modern day version of Vinnie 'Microwave' Johnson, if you will.

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

[Betterread]

Not enough talk about my Orlando Magic handling the Jazz two nights ago! Between that and my Jaguars beating the Bills I feel like im living in an alternate universe.

Crazy thing is how dominate Cole Anthony has been so far this year while Jalen Suggs has yet to find a rhythm. I think we're seeing more and more why Cole was a consensus top 5 player in his HS class. The injury that took away most of his one season at UNC plus his inconsistency when he did play and his frame (6'2 185) led to him sliding all the way to #15 in the 2019 draft, and boy im glad he did.

His line against Utah - 33 points on 13-20 (5-10 3P) shooting (only 2-2 FT), 3 reb, 2 asst, 3 stl, 2 blk, +14. Wendell Carter was nice too, 22 points on 9-14 (4-7 3P) shooting, 15 reb, 6 asst, 1 blk, +21. Cole is averaging 20/7/5 right now.

This team is starting to put something together. Franz has looked much better than anticipated too. Right now we're running out Cole/Suggs/Franz/Carter/Bamba so im not sure what happens when Isaac and Fultz return. At this point i'd be fine with trading Fultz to a PG needy team. He's extra as we have Cole, Jalen, and RJ all capable of playing lead guard. Isaac if healthy would likely bump out Bamba, though I think Mo would still see 25 minutes a game, especially since Isaac will be handled carefully for probably most if not all of the '21/'22 season. We've also got Chuma who gets 20 min per game. If they can get one more solid contributor in the '22 draft this team is going to be in the playoff mix in 2023.

Franz has shown me enough skill, athleticism and “moxie” to convince me he is a 30 + minutes a game NBA player. He is the most talented player I see on your squad. Need to see him more times to come up with a comparison or a projection, but for now i just know he has “it”.

[SteelSD]

Yeah, the Sixers are completely gassed. They did better than I expected with only seven functional players tonight, but just couldn't muster any energy in the fourth quarter. It didn't help that Giannis was allowed to literally clip guys in the head, shove them to the floor, and run over them to the tune of 1 foul called and 13 free throw attempts, but Philly isn't going to win until they get some players back.

[M2]

So the early "team you thought was going to be good but is struggling mightily" is Atlanta, off to a 4-8 start.

[RedTeamGo!]

Slow motion replay from other angle of what Morris did to instigate Jokic:

https://twitter.com/3cbperformance/status/1457966232469008384?s=21

Absolutely a dirty play by Morris. **** that guy.

[RichRed]

The Ringer tries to throw some cold analytical water on the teams who are off to a surprisingly hot start.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/11/10/22772525/early-nba-standings-wizards-warriors-cavaliers

Wiz and Cavs face off tonight!

[15fan]

So the early "team you thought was going to be good but is struggling mightily" is Atlanta, off to a 4-8 start.

Record early in the season not a surprise at all (checks his post from 10/22).

Hawks started season w/ 8 of 12 on the road including one of the long western swings. Starting 10/30, they've been @: Brooklyn, Philly, Phoenix, Golden State, Utah (already completing the H&H this season) with a road game at Denver Fri before coming home to play Milwaukee Sun evening.

I'd look for them to climb the standings soon. They have another stretch late Dec through mid Jan with 9 of 11 on the road including their other long western swing. Back half of the schedule is waaaaaaay more favorable to pile up wins.

[M2]

Record early in the season not a surprise at all (checks his post from 10/22).

Hawks started season w/ 8 of 12 on the road including one of the long western swings. Starting 10/30, they've been @: Brooklyn, Philly, Phoenix, Golden State, Utah (already completing the H&H this season) with a road game at Denver Fri before coming home to play Milwaukee Sun evening.

I'd look for them to climb the standings soon. They have another stretch late Dec through mid Jan with 9 of 11 on the road including their other long western swing. Back half of the schedule is waaaaaaay more favorable to pile up wins.

We saw them catch fire late last season too, but my early hot take is the East is way better and Atlanta is the same. They're going to have fewer easy nights (e.g. their post all-star stretch is shaping up to be a battle) just because outside of Orlando and Detroit everybody else is can give you a game.

[RichRed]

Introducing your 1st place Washington Wizards!

Posting this now in case it’s the last time I get to say this in my lifetime.

[KoryMac5]

I like what the Bulls have done this past off-season...they have a nice team with some depth to them. 8-3 so far on the season, I think they have some staying power.

[adkindo]

He deserves your respect. He just made Bam and Morris look weak. Not one heat player stepped up to him after he laid out Morris. All fake gangsters on your squad.

My squad? Not sure what you are talking about unless you mistakenly think I am a Heat fan. I will tell you that Jimmy Butler is one of the very few in the NBA that is not fake anything....and very few in the league would want to go at him.

[adkindo]

Not enough talk about my Orlando Magic handling the Jazz two nights ago! Between that and my Jaguars beating the Bills I feel like im living in an alternate universe.

Crazy thing is how dominate Cole Anthony has been so far this year while Jalen Suggs has yet to find a rhythm. I think we're seeing more and more why Cole was a consensus top 5 player in his HS class. The injury that took away most of his one season at UNC plus his inconsistency when he did play and his frame (6'2 185) led to him sliding all the way to #15 in the 2019 draft, and boy im glad he did.

His line against Utah - 33 points on 13-20 (5-10 3P) shooting (only 2-2 FT), 3 reb, 2 asst, 3 stl, 2 blk, +14. Wendell Carter was nice too, 22 points on 9-14 (4-7 3P) shooting, 15 reb, 6 asst, 1 blk, +21. Cole is averaging 20/7/5 right now.

This team is starting to put something together. Franz has looked much better than anticipated too. Right now we're running out Cole/Suggs/Franz/Carter/Bamba so im not sure what happens when Isaac and Fultz return. At this point i'd be fine with trading Fultz to a PG needy team. He's extra as we have Cole, Jalen, and RJ all capable of playing lead guard. Isaac if healthy would likely bump out Bamba, though I think Mo would still see 25 minutes a game, especially since Isaac will be handled carefully for probably most if not all of the '21/'22 season. We've also got Chuma who gets 20 min per game. If they can get one more solid contributor in the '22 draft this team is going to be in the playoff mix in 2023.

I am excited about the Magic, but I understand where they are in the build. There will be stretches this season where they will look terrible....and a few where they will fool fans into thinking they are closer than they really are currently. It is a process and a lot of hard knocks along the path of a rebuild. I personally love a rebuild....but some fans just hate the losing that comes along with a rebuild. I am not sure how many long term starters they have on the roster right now....Wagner is looking the part, and I think Isaac has good odds if he returns to form.....then waiting to see how Suggs develops. I am still not sold on Anthony being a the long term starter.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Hot take: Tyrese Maxey fits the 76ers better than Ben Simmons ever did.

[SteelSD]

Hot take: Tyrese Maxey fits the 76ers better than Ben Simmons ever did.

If he keeps this up, he's gonna' be a problem.

And I'm already beyond tired of the completely incompetent officiating this season. Sixers have a two point lead with <2 minutes left. The officials completely blow a call on a clean block, which would have resulted in Sixers retaining possession with a chance to go up by 4. Instead of retaining possession with all the momentum and a lead, the jump ball goes to Toronto, a couple idiots chuck up threes for the Raptors and it's a Sixers loss.

Next, a truly scary Mad Max gauntlet of road teams while still undermanned, gassed, and recovering from illness.

[Mutaman]

Instead of retaining possession with all the momentum and a lead, the jump ball goes to Toronto, a couple idiots chuck up threes for the Raptors and it's a Sixers loss.

.


Take it from us Bucks' fans, Fred Van Vleet is no idiot.

[Kingspoint]

Maybe the Blazers can win a game in Houston?

[Kingspoint]

There's a connect-the-dots moment here:

6-game losing streak
MIN decides to start Vanderbilt
Vanderbilt is a +31 after 18 minutes of work (at the beginning of the 4th Qtr before garbage-time messes with the results).
Russell was +39 at the time and the rest of the starters were in the +teens, just to show the total impact of Vanderbilt.

If Norman Powell ever misses a huge chunk of time (at least a month), the connect-the-dots will appear for POR as Little starts, the 3-Guard lineup for most of the game is abandoned, and Dennis Smith, Jr. gets into the rotation. If it's another Guard who goes out for a month, the impact would be different. Simons out doesn't keep Powell from getting every Start and setting the tone of the game, while Simons scoring off the bench is necessary. C.J. out might help, as Billups would likely start Little instead of Simons, while losing C.J.'s ball-handling isn't a loss with Nurkic in the starting lineup and DSJ joining the rotation as the 4th Guard. Dame out is just something you don't want because Powell would take too many shots in the last 5 minutes of a game, but it would still get Little to Start and DSJ into the rotation.

[KoryMac5]

Dallas showing signs of life though San Antonio is historically bad this season...

Kidd seems to be emphasizing more pick and roll between Luka and KP and it worked really well last night as both had huge games.

[SteelSD]

All I'm going to say about the Sixers/Pacers game is this-- Hats off to Indiana for storing up all those shots they should have made since the start of the season and unleashing them ALL in one game. Might want your boys to spread them out a bit more evenly going forward, Rev. ;)

[Revering4Blue]

All I'm going to say about the Sixers/Pacers game is this-- Hats off to Indiana for storing up all those shots they should have made since the start of the season and unleashing them ALL in one game. Might want your boys to spread them out a bit more evenly going forward, Rev. ;)

No Embiid and no Thybulle = more open looks for opponents.

Next up for the 76ers: A road game in Salt Lake City, where the Jazz have lost two in a row against banged-up teams, including Indiana.

[Betterread]

Won't be a lot of losses. They've got Drummond to soak up minutes at C and distributed scoring options. Eventually they'll want the talent that comes back from moving Simmons if they want to challenge for championships, but that's why they've got no real impetus to move him quickly for a crummy return. They can let him stew until the trade deadline. The guy who's got to make this right is Rich Paul, who's in serious danger of being found to be wearing no clothes. An All-Star player rotting on the suspended list and his supposed super agent unable to find him a landing spot is not going to be good for his business.

Philly can just wait for other teams to get itchy.

Pacers hand Embiid-less 76ers 4th straight loss, 118-113.

[SteelSD]

Pacers hand Embiid-less 76ers 4th straight loss, 118-113.

Funny, I haven't read any posts from you that stated that the Sixers should dump Simmons for peanuts because they'd do poorly when half their team was decimated by Covid (among other things). You know that it hasn't been just Embiid who's been impacted over those four losses, right?

I mean, if that happened to the T-Wolves, they'd probably be looking up at the Pelicans in the standings rather than scuffling to stay just ahead of them.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Funny, I haven't read any posts from you that stated that the Sixers should dump Simmons for peanuts because they'd do poorly when half their team was decimated by Covid (among other things).

I'm shocked you're standing by the Morey-has-played-this-exactly-right opinion.

[RedTeamGo!]

Cavs legit

[SteelSD]

I'm shocked you're standing by the Morey-has-played-this-exactly-right opinion.

Why would you be shocked by that? He has.

[Revering4Blue]

Cavs legitBickerstaff's geting the most out of this decimated crew. Virtually everyone is contributing down to undrafted free agents. One luxury the Cavs have at their disposal that some are glossing over - but not Redzoners, of course[emoji16]: The fact that both Allen and Mobley are capable of cutting off the lane defensively, while both are also able to switch out and defend the passing lanes.



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[Betterread]

KA Towns needs a new team. A Boson source suggested a trade of KAT to Boston for Jaylen Brown and Robert Williams III. That is worth thinking about.

[dubc47834]

My squad? Not sure what you are talking about unless you mistakenly think I am a Heat fan. I will tell you that Jimmy Butler is one of the very few in the NBA that is not fake anything....and very few in the league would want to go at him.

Butler is a fraud...he was right there when it happened and didn't do squat...then once the refs stepped in started yapping about meeting in the back...FRAUD!!!

[klw]

Cavs legit

Doesn't hurt that the Celtics have not met a lead that it doesn't want to blow the past couple of season. Every big trade suggestion I see for the Celtics has them sending out Brown instead of Tatum but if one were ever moved I would move Tatum.

[M2]

Doesn't hurt that the Celtics have not met a lead that it doesn't want to blow the past couple of season. Every big trade suggestion I see for the Celtics has them sending out Brown instead of Tatum but if one were ever moved I would move Tatum.

So much this. If the Celtics have a heart problem, it's in Tatum's chest.

[M2]

The Warriors just spanked the Nets. Steph went OFF (37 points, 12-19 shooting, 9-14 from 3) while KD largely got handled (19 pts, 6-19 shooting). I'm not saying they're going 73-9 again, but they are currently crushing opponents even harder than they were in 2015-16. I'm sure they'll come back to earth as the season wears on, but it looks like Golden State is extremely for real.

[KoryMac5]

Doncic who has a hx. of ankle issues injured it the other night after Austin Rivers rolled up on him...I would expect him to be out for a few games.

[M2]

The top of the league is still shaking out, but the bottom of the league is really taking shape. Houston (1-13), New Orleans (2-13), San Antonio (4-10), Orlando (3-11) and Detroit (3-10) are terrible. Minnesota (4-9) might be too, though I feel like that team has a path toward not being a complete doormat. OKC (5-8) is almost sure to be joining them.

[Revering4Blue]

The top of the league is still shaking out, but the bottom of the league is really taking shape. Houston (1-13), New Orleans (2-13), San Antonio (4-10), Orlando (3-11) and Detroit (3-10) are terrible. Minnesota (4-9) might be too, though I feel like that team has a path toward not being a complete doormat. OKC (5-8) is almost sure to be joining them.Time will tell. But let's consider the following:

- The Pelicans are 2-6 without Ingram and ZIon should return relatively soon. They were godawful two seasons ago sans Zion. He debuted in January of his rookie season and the team was knocking on the playoff door - and this was pre current 10 seed playoff setup - before the pandemic lockout struck. I'm not yet willing to count them out of at least a 10 seed.

- Pistons are 3-5 with Cunningham, winless without him. Even though Indy may easily dispatch the Pistons tonight in Detroit, it sure feels like a trap game to me. We'll see. Regardless, more minutes for Diallo instead of Josh Jackson should be the game plan whether or not the rumored J.J /Lyles for Bagley III deal comes to fruition.

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[M2]

Time will tell. But let's consider the following:

- The Pelicans are 2-6 without Ingram and ZIon should return relatively soon. They were godawful two seasons ago sans Zion. He debuted in January of his rookie season and the team was knocking on the playoff door - and this was pre current 10 seed playoff setup - before the pandemic lockout struck. I'm not yet willing to count them out of at least a 10 seed.

- Pistons are 3-5 with Cunningham, winless without him. Even though Indy may easily dispatch the Pistons tonight in Detroit, it sure feels like a trap game to me. We'll see. Regardless, more minutes for Diallo instead of Josh Jackson should be the game plan whether or not the rumored J.J /Lyles for Bagley III deal comes to fruition.

The #10 seed (and perhaps the #8 and #9 seeds) in the West is going to be a pretty bad team, so I guess the Pels have hope enough for that. My guess is Zion's likely a long way from healthy and in game shape.

Detroit's shooting is just so bad right now (30th in eFG%), I'm thinking it's going to be a long season for them.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Regardless, more minutes for Diallo instead of Josh Jackson should be the game plan whether or not the rumored J.J /Lyles for Bagley III deal comes to fruition.

Diallo would be a great fit for a squad that needed defense and slashing/ a tertiary playmaker. He's not a great fit on this season's Detroit team.

I'm hoping the Nets, Golden State, Boston, or Minnesota pick him up relatively cheaply and unleash him as a drive-and-defend energy bench guy or second division starter at the wing.

[M2]

What happens when you match up Carmelo Anthony against Giannis? Giannis goes 18-23, 47 pts.

[M2]

The top 6 in the West are Golden State, Phoenix, Utah, Dallas, Denver and the Clippers, and I'm starting to think that might just be the top 6 when we get to the end of the season too. The Lakers are perhaps the only team that could break into that mix. That conference has stratified quickly, and the better teams over there aren't messing around. It would not be shocking to see all of them keep a 50-or-more-win pace.

[Stray]

Sticking to my 'not reading anything into anything' take on this season so far. Really hard to figure out who the contenders are now outside of a handful of teams.

Still love the Heat in the East and the Nugs/Suns in the West. I don't know much beyond that though.

[M2]

Sticking to my 'not reading anything into anything' take on this season so far. Really hard to figure out who the contenders are now outside of a handful of teams.

Still love the Heat in the East and the Nugs/Suns in the West. I don't know much beyond that though.

The Warriors look like the best team in the league by a comfortable distance. The East is a free for all. Probably need to get past the trade deadline to sort it out.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The Warriors look like the best team in the league by a comfortable distance.

Lots of injuries and Covid cases so far cloud the takeaway for me.

I think Golden State is really good and likely to get better when Klay comes back. (And don't sleep on Wiseman as a defense-first guy for 25 mpg.)

But there are teams with lots of upside who still haven't played with their full assortment of players.

[M2]

Lots of injuries and Covid cases so far cloud the takeaway for me.

I think Golden State is really good and likely to get better when Klay comes back. (And don't sleep on Wiseman as a defense-first guy for 25 mpg.)

But there are teams with lots of upside who still haven't played with their full assortment of players.

I definitely expect other teams to gel, but the Warriors are already there. They're insanely good on both sides of the ball. Their defensive intensity really stands out. And Draymond Green is back to being a menace.

[M2]

I'm starting to think the 2020 Lakers were the flukiest champions ever.

[Stray]

The Warriors look like the best team in the league by a comfortable distance. The East is a free for all. Probably need to get past the trade deadline to sort it out.

Yeah I should have added them to the Suns/Nugs in the West. They're legit and Steph is a monster.

[M2]

The top of the league is still shaking out, but the bottom of the league is really taking shape. Houston (1-13), New Orleans (2-13), San Antonio (4-10), Orlando (3-11) and Detroit (3-10) are terrible. Minnesota (4-9) might be too, though I feel like that team has a path toward not being a complete doormat. OKC (5-8) is almost sure to be joining them.

Building on this, why aren't these looking to go after Ben Simmons? You can't tell me that retrenching around a young, multi-time all-star wouldn't help. Like, stop pretending what you're doing is working and try something else. And definitely add Sacramento to this mix. There's some teams that I don't think have the trade material to get him (Orlando, Detroit, San Antonio), but the rest could get in the mix. Serious question, does KAT for Simmons make sense? KAT has the shooting range to play next to Embiid (though guarding the perimeter might be an issue). Simmons would give the Wolves someone who's more of a ball mover than a shooter, which could fit with Edwards and Russell. It's certainly got challenge trade potential.

An alternate version I heard kicked around on a podcast was a three-way deal with Simmons going to the Wolves, KAT going to the Raps and Pascal Siakam going to the Sixers.

[SteelSD]

Oh, my god the home cooking for the Blazers tonight. Have to say good job to the Sixers. Even undermanned and playing against 8 men on the court at all times, they made a game of it.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Building on this, why aren't these looking to go after Ben Simmons?

From what I've heard, opposing teams have gotten the impression that Philly plans to hold strong on the Morey godfather offer this year and wait until next off-season to deal Simmons. This has two positive effects: 1.) They can screw Simmons for having the gall to dare ask for a trade and, 2) it provides Morey and the franchise a convenient excuse if they don't win the championship, even as Maxey is proving himself as a first division starter as a combo guard.

It's criminal that Morey sits on an asset that could make them the favorites in the East and refuses to make any deal beyond his pie-in-the-sky demands. Dealing for Dragic and Anunoby-- which would undoubtedly be far less than Morey's demands-- would give the Sixers a first division starter at every spot on the floor and would give them nine(!) guys with PERs of 15 or higher.

I realize the Sixer fans here are incredibly loyal to Morey and the franchise (and also realize I'll get major pushback from Steel on this), but Embiid only has so many healthy, dominant years. Flushing one in which they have nearly all the tools seems less than ideal-- unless pride is at stake. And anger.

We'll have to see how all this works out. Maybe Morey will be proven correct, and I'll eat a mountain of crow. Won't be the first time I've been wrong. But it should be obvious by now that he overvalued Simmons in the eyes of the league. Waiting would seem to be a recipe for seeing that demand go down, not up.

[M2]

I suspect the best offers Morey will get for Simmons will come in the mid-season trade window. That's when a lot of teams will be coming to grips with who they are -- some bad, some not special enough to make a serious run at a title. We've yet to hear about a meaningful offer from anybody. Seems like it's a lot of Morey asking the moon and other teams offering dirt.

I do agree Embiid probably only has a about three seasons left in his peak, so they need to figure out how to win now. Though that's a compelling reason not to move Simmons for the sake of moving him. Whatever they get for him probably is going to lock in their roster for the next few years.