NBA 2021-22: Staring at the Suns

[goreds2]

Joel Embiid fined $15K for criticizing refs after 76ers loss to Raptors


“I’m going to take my own advice and not complain about it,” Embiid said. “If they want to give fouls or want to call really no fouls, we’ve got to really make them earn it and really be physical.”

Embiid, suffering from an injured thumb on his right (shooting) hand, wore a brace and finished 7 for 16 for 21 points in 39 minutes.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/joel-embiid-fined-2415k-for-criticizing-refs-after-76ers-loss-to-raptors/ar-AAWABpX

[SteelSD]

Joel Embiid fined $15K for criticizing refs after 76ers loss to Raptors

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/joel-embiid-fined-2415k-for-criticizing-refs-after-76ers-loss-to-raptors/ar-AAWABpX

20% of me wants to tell Embiid that he shouldn't be complaining about officials after telling Nick Nurse to shut it. But it's Scott Foster and Ed Malloy that he has a beef with, so the other 80% would contribute to a Gofundme campaign to help pay for the fine. Neither of those two guys should be officiating NBA games, Foster in particular.

[Kingspoint]

Herb Jones is a joy to watch on a basketball court. He covers the whole arena. Somewhere up in the stands he's selling hot dogs during timeouts.

That's great!

[Kingspoint]

20% of me wants to tell Embiid that he shouldn't be complaining about officials after telling Nick Nurse to shut it. But it's Scott Foster and Ed Malloy that he has a beef with, so the other 80% would contribute to a Gofundme campaign to help pay for the fine. Neither of those two guys should be officiating NBA games, Foster in particular.

Scott Foster and Ed Malloy,...the two NBA refs in a class by themselves as far as "look at me!!!! I'm more important than the players on the court and I'll just make up things as I go along.

[Kingspoint]

I didn't watch most of the Pels/Suns last game having this urge to watch "Office Space" for the 500th time.

Monty Williams' post-game interview pointed it out for me that things just weren't kosher in that game as far as officiating.

I really, really wish that the NBA and the refs would just leave their leniancies out of it and let the players play. It's such a better game when they do, and they simply don't get it.

[M2]

The last month of the season the main NBA talking point was everybody wanted to avoid Brooklyn and they were the lower seed most likely to pull off a 1st round upset. Now they're the only team that got swept in the 1st round.

[Betterread]

The sixth foul on Tatum was a joke. He was dragged down. Boston closed the game just fine without him though.

[Kingspoint]

The last month of the season the main NBA talking point was everybody wanted to avoid Brooklyn and they were the lower seed most likely to pull off a 1st round upset. Now they're the only team that got swept in the 1st round.

No heart on that team.

[M2]

I didn't watch most of the Pels/Suns last game having this urge to watch "Office Space" for the 500th time.

Monty Williams' post-game interview pointed it out for me that things just weren't kosher in that game as far as officiating.

I really, really wish that the NBA and the refs would just leave their leniancies out of it and let the players play. It's such a better game when they do, and they simply don't get it.

I watched the game. What you heard was Monty Williams coming up with excuses for his team getting solidly outplayed.

[M2]

So what does Brooklyn do next year? Joe Harris should be back. I don't know that he's a lot of help, but he can shoot. Yet, Joe Harris? Who am I kidding here? The Nets have the two biggest soap opera stars in the league. Will Ben Simmons feel like playing? He might get a sesame seed stuck between his teeth and be out for the season. He could be a major addition if he's ever able to get his head right. Ghosting the Nets this season makes me question if that's ever going to happen.

And then there's Kyrie. He can opt out of the last season of his $36M contract. Brooklyn should be praying he does. Even teams with cap space probably would need to do a sign-and-trade to fit in his number. Getting out from under Kyrie and getting something for him would be like early Christmas. If they re-up Kyrie, it's going to be a long, miserable ride for them. Personally, I'd look to get in on Tyus Jones to run their point and find a long, springy forward to give them some perimeter defense.

[SteelSD]

Simply atrocious basketball from the Sixers tonight. Let's forget that Embiid can't handle the ball right now and is clearly bothered when taking anything from range. The rest of the team was flatly terrible. Couldn't hit wide-open looks, save for a decent half of ball from Danny Green. Went about half a quarter without scoring a point. Brick after brick after brick. Toronto didn't even shoot well from distance, but got constant nigh-uncontested rim runs all game long. Heading back to Toronto is not good and, if Rivers becomes the first coach in history to blow a 3-0 lead (which is certainly possible the way they played the last two games), I'd have to hope he'd be fired before that postgame press conference even begins.

[Mutaman]

Sixers should trade for Grayson Allen. With all that booing going on, he'd average 40 points a game there.

[M2]

Simply atrocious basketball from the Sixers tonight. Let's forget that Embiid can't handle the ball right now and is clearly bothered when taking anything from range. The rest of the team was flatly terrible. Couldn't hit wide-open looks, save for a decent half of ball from Danny Green. Went about half a quarter without scoring a point. Brick after brick after brick. Toronto didn't even shoot well from distance, but got constant nigh-uncontested rim runs all game long. Heading back to Toronto is not good and, if Rivers becomes the first coach in history to blow a 3-0 lead (which is certainly possible the way they played the last two games), I'd have to hope he'd be fired before that postgame press conference even begins.

Toby and Maxey have got to score. But I think Toronto might have figured that out too.

[Betterread]

Simply atrocious basketball from the Sixers tonight. Let's forget that Embiid can't handle the ball right now and is clearly bothered when taking anything from range. The rest of the team was flatly terrible. Couldn't hit wide-open looks, save for a decent half of ball from Danny Green. Went about half a quarter without scoring a point. Brick after brick after brick. Toronto didn't even shoot well from distance, but got constant nigh-uncontested rim runs all game long. Heading back to Toronto is not good and, if Rivers becomes the first coach in history to blow a 3-0 lead (which is certainly possible the way they played the last two games), I'd have to hope he'd be fired before that postgame press conference even begins.

Doc Rivers has blown 6 series with a 3-1 or 3-2 lead. That struck me that his teams win 3 games in a series pretty regularly.

[SteelSD]

Sixers should trade for Grayson Allen. With all that booing going on, he'd average 40 points a game there.

I can't stand that kid. Complete Milo. While I certainly don't condone violence in non-boxing/MMA sports, I would not protest too strongly if I were forced to watch an opponent punch him repeatedly in the groin. So while your statement is both funny and eloquent, no thank you good sir. No thank you.

[SteelSD]

Toby and Maxey have got to score. But I think Toronto might have figured that out too.

I honestly believe that the Raptors are more dangerous with VanVleet out. There's no matchup to hunt, and the entire Toronto lineup is 100% switchable with him off the floor. His injury may have saved the Raptors' season.

[Betterread]

I honestly believe that the Raptors are more dangerous with VanVleet out. There's no matchup to hunt, and the entire Toronto lineup is 100% switchable with him off the floor. His injury may have saved the Raptors' season.
…and he can’t shoot, and he can’t guard anyone unless the refs let him hack away without calling a foul. They are way better off without him. Toronto doesn’t value ball security. They Let Dragic go pretty easily and I have no idea who their backup PG is - Malachi Flynn?

[Kingspoint]

Guess who the most overrated player in the NBA is right now?

Answer: James Harden. He sucks, and has for a while.

[Boston Red]

The Jazz are just terrible. Almost wish they had just lost game 4 so this would be over.

[BuckeyeRed27]

They just can’t shoot. Just missing everything. Good looks for the most part too. If they were just bad shooting, instead of horrific, this is a game.

[M2]

Bojan Bogdanovic should be shunned for the game he's having.

[Mutaman]

Guess who the most overrated player in the NBA is right now?

Answer: James Harden. He sucks, and has for a while.

Still upset he made that all 75 team over Bernard King.

[M2]

Still upset he made that all 75 team over Bernard King.

I'm upset about roughly 30 guys making it over Alex English.

[Mutaman]

I can't stand that kid. Complete Milo. While I certainly don't condone violence in non-boxing/MMA sports, I would not protest too strongly if I were forced to watch an opponent punch him repeatedly in the groin. So while your statement is both funny and eloquent, no thank you good sir. No thank you.

Love the art, not the artist.

[Kingspoint]

You were dead right a couple months ago, M2, when you stated that any team like the NETS who has to make it out of the play-in tournament isn't a contender for the NBA Finals.

[Kingspoint]

They just can’t shoot. Just missing everything. Good looks for the most part too. If they were just bad shooting, instead of horrific, this is a game.

They led the NBA in 3-pts attempted during the regular season (and, I believe, were about 4th in 3-pt Percentage), but I didn't think that they qualified or see them as a team that would "live by the three or die by the three" because of Gobert, Conley and their Head Coach.

[Kingspoint]

I'm upset about roughly 30 guys making it over Alex English.

For me, I could easily replace 25 guys.

[SteelSD]

Love the art, not the artist.

I'm not sure it's art, but he does lovely pirouettes when kicking other players. The guy's career belongs in the "before" portion of an Abilify pamphlet.

[Puffy]

Still upset he made that all 75 team over Bernard King.

Bernard! Still my all time favorite NBA player

[BuckeyeRed27]

They led the NBA in 3-pts attempted during the regular season (and, I believe, were about 4th in 3-pt Percentage), but I didn't think that they qualified or see them as a team that would "live by the three or die by the three" because of Gobert, Conley and their Head Coach.

This was beyond live and die by the 3. They were 3 of 30 and their top 4 shooters (Mitchell, Conley, Bogdonivich and Clarkson) were 0 for 19. That’s just a statistics outlier.

I thought Dallas played with a lot of energy, but they weren’t particularly good. Utah could have won with a average to slightly below average shooting night. You don’t beat anyone with what they did though.

[M2]

This was beyond live and die by the 3. They were 3 of 30 and their top 4 shooters (Mitchell, Conley, Bogdonivich and Clarkson) were 0 for 19. That’s just a statistics outlier.

I thought Dallas played with a lot of energy, but they weren’t particularly good. Utah could have won with a average to slightly below average shooting night. You don’t beat anyone with what they did though.

To Clarkson's credit, he at least had the good sense to attack the rim when the 3s weren't falling. What would trouble me if I was a Jazz fan is how poorly the team adjusts. Might just be that it's a limited team that struggles when Plan A goes by the wayside. When playoff defense shows up it's not dynamic enough to find other ways.

[KoryMac5]

Kidd has done a nice job with Dallas they have been much better defensively throughout the year and the players have bought in...he even has Luka playing D. However when you go 3 for 30 from deep that is more than defense that is just a really bad night for your shooters. Compounding that for Utah is Mitchells injury and if that will keep him from being full go for game 6.

[BuckeyeRed27]

To Clarkson's credit, he at least had the good sense to attack the rim when the 3s weren't falling. What would trouble me if I was a Jazz fan is how poorly the team adjusts. Might just be that it's a limited team that struggles when Plan A goes by the wayside. When playoff defense shows up it's not dynamic enough to find other ways.

I’m generally concerned that they aren’t great at adjusting on the fly, but again your top 4 shooters miss every single 3? You can’t all of the sudden become Stockton and Malone.

[Revering4Blue]

Fun facts about Alex English and Bernard King:

- When Donald Sterling first purchased the Clippers in '81, one of his first acts as owner was to block a multi-player trade that would have sent English to San Diego and the late Freeman Williams to Denver. While it was/is unclear who the additional players involved in the proposed deal were, it was speculated that David Thompson (Denver) and either the recently drafted Tom Chambers and or the late Michael Brooks (Clippers) were part of the proposed deal.

- Following the Jazz's first season in Salt Lake City, the organization thought long and hard about building around Bernard King and Darrell Griffith, which meant dealing then NBA scoring champ Adrian Dantley for a haul. The Knicks reportedly made a Godfather of an offer for Dantley at the time and were rebuffed.

King was then dealt to the Warriors, subsequently re-signed as an '82 free agent and sent to New York for Michael Ray Richardson. The reasoning from the Warriors (IMO, faulty reasoning): They didn't want to part with the sweet-shooting Purvis Short, whose natural position was also SF. They could have easily moved Short to big guard.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Fun facts about Alex English and Bernard King:

- When Donald Sterling first purchased the Clippers in '81, one of his first acts as owner was to block a multi-player trade that would have sent English to San Diego and the late Freeman Williams to Denver. While it was/is unclear who the additional players involved in the proposed deal were, it was speculated that David Thompson (Denver) and either the recently drafted Tom Chambers and or the late Michael Brooks (Clippers) were part of the proposed deal.

Man, Alex English for Freeman Williams and Tom Chambers could have helped both teams too. Williams, David Thompson, and TR Dunn could have been fine at the three backcourt spots, if a little short. But Tom Chambers next to Dan Issel would have been epic. In a Doug Moe offense? Kiki Vandeweghe could have moved into the starting lineup earlier, and I doubt the Nuggets would have missed English all that much. (Surprisingy.)

Meanwhile, put English on the 1982-1983 Clippers with Terry Cummings, Lionel Hollins, a semi-healthy Bill Walton, and a platoon of Al Wood and Michael Brooks. That team could score, rebound, and pass with anyone. Great balance across the team, with Walton playing a point center surrounded by shooters. That'd be a nice team, assuming no injuries. It might have been good enough to keep Walton interested and focused-- and healthier.

[M2]

Man, Alex English for Freeman Williams and Tom Chambers could have helped both teams too. Williams, David Thompson, and TR Dunn could have been fine at the three backcourt spots, if a little short. But Tom Chambers next to Dan Issel would have been epic. In a Doug Moe offense? Kiki Vandeweghe could have moved into the starting lineup earlier, and I doubt the Nuggets would have missed English all that much. (Surprisingy.)

Meanwhile, put English on the 1982-1983 Clippers with Terry Cummings, Lionel Hollins, a semi-healthy Bill Walton, and a platoon of Al Wood and Michael Brooks. That team could score, rebound, and pass with anyone. Great balance across the team, with Walton playing a point center surrounded by shooters. That'd be a nice team, assuming no injuries. It might have been good enough to keep Walton interested and focused-- and healthier.

Thompson's knees, sadly, were shot by that time. What would have been maximum fun is if the Nuggets had fleeced Sterling for Chambers in exchange for Thompson. English, Chambers, Kiki and Issel playing for Moe would have been insane.

[M2]

I’m generally concerned that they aren’t great at adjusting on the fly, but again your top 4 shooters miss every single 3? You can’t all of the sudden become Stockton and Malone.

It's definitely buzzard's luck, but it does bring into question how much value any of those guys have outside of hitting 3s. Clarkson at least adjusted. If he was on a team where other guys could adjust too, some of them might have played their way into a rhythm and started hitting 3s. Jayson Tatum the other night was clanging his 3s, but he went to the rim, which led to points, assists and trips to the free throw line. Ended up with 39 points.

That feeds into what you were saying about Stockton and Malone. They don't have a Jayson Tatum either. Yet, I think, that's the fundamental problem. They need more dynamic players. Also, is something up with Mitchell? He seems...off.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It's definitely buzzard's luck, but it does bring into question how much value any of those guys have outside of hitting 3s. Clarkson at least adjusted. If he was on a team where other guys could adjust too, some of them might have played their way into a rhythm and started hitting 3s. Jayson Tatum the other night was clanging his 3s, but he went to the rim, which led to points, assists and trips to the free throw line. Ended up with 39 points.

That feeds into what you were saying about Stockton and Malone. They don't have a Jayson Tatum either. Yet, I think, that's the fundamental problem. They need more dynamic players. Also, is something up with Mitchell? He seems...off.

Mitchell is definitely off. He’s gotten numbers eventually before last night, but his usage rate is sky high and he’s not efficient at all. Shooting is off and last night he couldn’t get to the foul line.

It’s tough to just ignore a Game 5 of a tied playoff series, but it really is hard to do anything other than say it’s just one of those games. Team still has a ton of flaws, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they won the next 2 or lost at home by 20 on Thursday.

[Revering4Blue]

Man, Alex English for Freeman Williams and Tom Chambers could have helped both teams too. Williams, David Thompson, and TR Dunn could have been fine at the three backcourt spots, if a little short. But Tom Chambers next to Dan Issel would have been epic. In a Doug Moe offense? Kiki Vandeweghe could have moved into the starting lineup earlier, and I doubt the Nuggets would have missed English all that much. (Surprisingy.)

Meanwhile, put English on the 1982-1983 Clippers with Terry Cummings, Lionel Hollins, a semi-healthy Bill Walton, and a platoon of Al Wood and Michael Brooks. That team could score, rebound, and pass with anyone. Great balance across the team, with Walton playing a point center surrounded by shooters. That'd be a nice team, assuming no injuries. It might have been good enough to keep Walton interested and focused-- and healthier.


Thompson's knees, sadly, were shot by that time. What would have been maximum fun is if the Nuggets had fleeced Sterling for Chambers in exchange for Thompson. English, Chambers, Kiki and Issel playing for Moe would have been insane.

Given the Clips idiotically traded away Lloyd "World B' Free a year earlier - can't blame Sterling; he didn't own the team yet - I highly doubt any proposed deal between the two involving Freeman Williams would have transpired without Thompson. At the time, even though he later balked at paying the requisite salaries, Sterling was chirping about 'going after box office names' and Thompson, even more so than English at the time, was considered such.

In any case, DT and Kiki for Freeman W. and Chambers could have worked out well for both sides. While Williams looked like a rising star at the time Free was dealt away, I figure Moe could have extracted more from him than Paul Silas. He was much more effective teaming with Jellybean Bryant off the bench under Gene Shue. Williams seriously regressed after being dealt to Atlanta for Al Wood, and I doubt that would have happened in Denver.

As for Thompson, while M2 may be right about the knees, DT still revived himself in Seattle after a poor final season in Denver and landed an all star berth in 1983. However, it was off the court issues that ultimately spelled doom for DT. First, he was severely injured in a bar fight in early '84 after he was pushed down a flight of stairs. Then, after rehabilitation, he looked like the Thompson of old in Pacers training camp in '85. Alas, he was involved in another bar fight before camp ended and nobody would touch him again. But, in San Diego, Paul Silas - his former teammate and friend in Denver - would have been his coach, so DT may have experienced a better off-court life there. And they may have played well enough with DT and Kiki - even with the injuries to Nater, Walton and Whitehead - to retain Silas and continue building with their '83 first rounder.

[Revering4Blue]

While no longer a borderline star player and far past his prime, Rudy Gay was presumed to have provided Utah with a taller player who can switch out. But he's either been injured or ineffective when called upon. They still lack such a player, and it's imperative for them to acquire one ASAP.

[M2]

While no longer a borderline star player and far past his prime, Rudy Gay was presumed to have provided Utah with a taller player who can switch out. But he's either been injured or ineffective when called upon. They still lack such a player, and it's imperative for them to acquire one ASAP.

Somebody should steal Isaiah Roby from OKC.

[Bourgeois Zee]

It must be nice to bring Victor Oladipo out of mothballs and watch him go vintage 'Dipo for a quarter.

Heat up 12 at half without Butler, 54-42.

Every time downcourt, Miami's making Young defend-- and he's largely not doing a very good job.

[M2]

Every time downcourt, Miami's making Young defend-- and he's largely not doing a very good job.

I expect the dominant story of Trae's career is going to be getting hunted in the playoffs.

[Kingspoint]

I’m generally concerned that they aren’t great at adjusting on the fly, but again your top 4 shooters miss every single 3? You can’t all of the sudden become Stockton and Malone.

A guy like Ingles could help the team make the adjustments. He's missed.

- - - Updated - - -


Somebody should steal Isaiah Roby from OKC.

He's available from that team.

[Kingspoint]

Given the Clips idiotically traded away Lloyd "World B' Free a year earlier - can't blame Sterling; he didn't own the team yet - I highly doubt any proposed deal between the two involving Freeman Williams would have transpired without Thompson. At the time, even though he later balked at paying the requisite salaries, Sterling was chirping about 'going after box office names' and Thompson, even more so than English at the time, was considered such.

In any case, DT and Kiki for Freeman W. and Chambers could have worked out well for both sides. While Williams looked like a rising star at the time Free was dealt away, I figure Moe could have extracted more from him than Paul Silas. He was much more effective teaming with Jellybean Bryant off the bench under Gene Shue. Williams seriously regressed after being dealt to Atlanta for Al Wood, and I doubt that would have happened in Denver.

As for Thompson, while M2 may be right about the knees, DT still revived himself in Seattle after a poor final season in Denver and landed an all star berth in 1983. However, it was off the court issues that ultimately spelled doom for DT. First, he was severely injured in a bar fight in early '84 after he was pushed down a flight of stairs. Then, after rehabilitation, he looked like the Thompson of old in Pacers training camp in '85. Alas, he was involved in another bar fight before camp ended and nobody would touch him again. But, in San Diego, Paul Silas - his former teammate and friend in Denver - would have been his coach, so DT may have experienced a better off-court life there. And they may have played well enough with DT and Kiki - even with the injuries to Nater, Walton and Whitehead - to retain Silas and continue building with their '83 first rounder.

Freeman Williams in DEN would have saved his career. There wouldn't have been the KiKi trade to POR, though, if the Clipper trade you mentioned happened. POR was just spinning wheels anyway with the KiKi trade, so it didn't matter there, as something else would have happened (while they watched Sam Bowie injure himself every year) until they were able to draft Drexler/Porter/Kersey/Robinson and trade for Duck/B.Williams.

That UTA team that potentially happened would have had Sloan, too, very soon. When did Sloan arrive?

[Kingspoint]

This 4th Qtr is going to be a great learning experience for the T-Wolves for next season.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Really glad the TWolves aren't my favorite team.

I'd be livid at the officiating were that the case.

My goodness, has it been horridly one-sided in this fourth quarter.

Morant was given 10 free throws in the last five minutes of a game he was losing.

[Kingspoint]

Edwards just showed he has the ability to lead the T-Wolves to an NBA Title.

They won't win this game or the next, but next year, they are going to be a very tough out.

[Betterread]

Really glad the TWolves aren't my favorite team.

I'd be livid at the officiating were that the case.

My goodness, has it been horridly one-sided in this fourth quarter.

Morant was given 10 free throws in the last five minutes of a game he was losing.

Not livid. This is a recurring problem the Twolves have to overcome. But yeah. 13 points out of Memphis’ 35 in the fourth quarter were FTs and many of those were Jah just jumping into defenders. It takes the fun out of watching the game.
The Twolves played Ok. They can play a lot better. I hope they play a strong game on Friday.
I bet Taylor Jenkins is satisfied with the officiating in this game.

[Big Red Smokey]

If you don't have a marketable star, why bother taking the floor?

That game was so GD rigged it was ridiculous

Home Depot Jenkins complaining about officiating after his team had already shot 500 FT's in the 1st 4 games was rich.

This sport is still as corrupt as ever.

[SteelSD]

What in hades was D'Angelo Russell doing taking a terrible shot with half the shot clock left and the offense not set? And then Anthony Edwards? He had no chance at a steal, so his real choice was a contested jumper vs a rim run by Morant.

At least with a young Edwards, you have to take the bad with the good. Russell is just a bonehead.

[M2]

Really glad the TWolves aren't my favorite team.

I'd be livid at the officiating were that the case.

My goodness, has it been horridly one-sided in this fourth quarter.

Morant was given 10 free throws in the last five minutes of a game he was losing.

The thing that jumped out at me wasn't the officiating, but how many random bounces of the ball went Memphis' way coming down the stretch. Bad shots would carom right to the one guy who could grab a rebound. Plays would break down and the ball would just end up in their hands. The ball was finding them.

[M2]

Edwards just showed he has the ability to lead the T-Wolves to an NBA Title.

Might be right. D'Angelo Russell also needs to recognize he should NOT be the guy taking the big shots at the end. On their penultimate possession he dribbled into three guys and hauled up a brick without even looking at Ant or KAT.

[Big Red Smokey]

4th quarter fouls:
Minnesota 12
Memphis 3

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[M2]

Phoenix fans booing every time Alvarado touches the ball. He's got to feel amazing getting that kind of heat as a rookie off the bench. That's validation.

[Betterread]

What in hades was D'Angelo Russell doing taking a terrible shot with half the shot clock left and the offense not set? And then Anthony Edwards? He had no chance at a steal, so his real choice was a contested jumper vs a rim run by Morant.

At least with a young Edwards, you have to take the bad with the good. Russell is just a bonehead.
Agree with both specific takes. The final play was poorly guarded, especially by Edwards.

[Revering4Blue]

Freeman Williams in DEN would have saved his career. There wouldn't have been the KiKi trade to POR, though, if the Clipper trade you mentioned happened. POR was just spinning wheels anyway with the KiKi trade, so it didn't matter there, as something else would have happened (while they watched Sam Bowie injure himself every year) until they were able to draft Drexler/Porter/Kersey/Robinson and trade for Duck/B.Williams.

That UTA team that potentially happened would have had Sloan, too, very soon. When did Sloan arrive?

The Blazers would have been fine had Kiki been dealt to San Diego instead, even with Calvin Natt's knees prematurely ending his career. They may have dealt Jim Paxson when his value was higher as they would have had Drexler, Lever and Porter or kept him and used Drexler at SF when Kersey was resting.

And they likely would have drafted Blair Rasmussen for themselves with the pick that went to Denver in the Kiki deal, while adding Duckworth 1.5 years later. Plus, Wayne Cooper and Mychal Thompson - who was dealt for Steve Johnson, who actually outplayed Thompson for an extended period post trade - were still around. In short, Bowie's loss wouldn't have been as noticeable if the trade for Kiki didn't happen. And, as you mentioned, he still would have been dealt for Buck Williams.

As for Utah, Sloan became head coach in the Fall of '88 after Frank Layden suddenly resigned. But let's not forget Frank Layden was a fine coach himself, as well as one of the funniest NBA personalities in history.

- - - Updated - - -


Somebody should steal Isaiah Roby from OKC.

Or Kendrich Williams.

[Kingspoint]

PHO's decision to go big this whole game has really paid off. They dominated the paint defensively, while Bridges, Biyambo and Ayton have been outstanding overall.

Valenciunas, Ingram and Hayes have struggled.

[M2]

Watching Mikal Bridges and Herb Jones playing defense on both ends of the floor is a treat. Those two get after it.

[Kingspoint]

The Blazers would have been fine had Kiki been dealt to San Diego instead, even with Calvin Natt's knees prematurely ending his career. They may have dealt Jim Paxson when his value was higher as they would have had Drexler, Lever and Porter or kept him and used Drexler at SF when Kersey was resting.

And they likely would have drafted Blair Rasmussen for themselves with the pick that went to Denver in the Kiki deal, while adding Duckworth 1.5 years later. Plus, Wayne Cooper and Mychal Thompson - who was dealt for Steve Johnson, who actually outplayed Thompson for an extended period post trade - were still around. In short, Bowie's loss wouldn't have been as noticeable if the trade for Kiki didn't happen. And, as you mentioned, he still would have been dealt for Buck Williams.

As for Utah, Sloan became head coach in the Fall of '88 after Frank Layden suddenly resigned. But let's not forget Frank Layden was a fine coach himself, as well as one of the funniest NBA personalities in history.

- - - Updated - - -



Or Kendrich Williams.

Except for one small thing....Paul Allen refused to ever draft an Oregon player, no matter how good he was or fall he had fallen in the draft or even if he was an undrafted player, so Rasmussen (U of O) would have not been taken. Allen was a diehard Washington fan and hated Oregon Sports' teams (a true fan, which is what made him spend money), whether that was Seattle High Schools, U of W, WSU or Gonsaga. We had lots of those. Wouldn't even draft Brooks or the UDFA GPJr. The list is long of Oregon players he passed on. We traded for Stoudamire, but let Toronto draft him.

I did love Natt, btw. One of my all-time favorite Blazers. A Cooper/Duckworth/Thompson/Natt combo would have kept us in the playoffs and on a build mode, while we still would have added Kersey in the 2nd Rd, Robinson in the 2nd Rd, and Porter, another late pick.

But, the $6M question. What would have happened with Fat Lever and that Sonics' series?

[membengal]

Really glad the TWolves aren't my favorite team.

I'd be livid at the officiating were that the case.

My goodness, has it been horridly one-sided in this fourth quarter.

Morant was given 10 free throws in the last five minutes of a game he was losing.

Same thing happened but in MN's favor in game 4.

Fact of the matter is, for whatever reason, the officials assigned and officiating in general in that entire series has been ****. Both ways. Both teams can complain, because it has been truly bad officiating.

[membengal]

If you don't have a marketable star, why bother taking the floor?

That game was so GD rigged it was ridiculous

Home Depot Jenkins complaining about officiating after his team had already shot 500 FT's in the 1st 4 games was rich.

This sport is still as corrupt as ever.

oh good lord. Stop. The idea of memphis getting officiating help is hilarious, as a long-time memphis fan. JJJ has barely been able to play this series due to a crazy fast whistle. The officials have been **** for five games now, both ways.

[membengal]

On top of that, Memphis tries to attack the rim, Minnesota likes to drive and dish. One style leads to putting officials to the question, the other not as much. The fourth quarter was that underlined.

[Betterread]

Same thing happened but in MN's favor in game 4.

Fact of the matter is, for whatever reason, the officials assigned and officiating in general in that entire series has been ****. Both ways. Both teams can complain, because it has been truly bad officiating.

Your narrative is flawed. Memphis has had a big advantage in FTs 4 of 5 games.

[Betterread]

On top of that, Memphis tries to attack the rim, Minnesota likes to drive and dish. One style leads to putting officials to the question, the other not as much. The fourth quarter was that underlined.

Flawed narrative, again. Towns and Edwards drive to the hoop a lot. If towns got the calls JaH did, Minny would have won 4-1.

[membengal]

Your narrative is flawed. Memphis has had a big advantage in FTs 4 of 5 games.

okey dokey. The officiating has been great. Flawless. All in memphis's favor. GTFO out with this nonsense. The style of play will yield more memphis times at the line period. To equate times at line with uneven officiating is bull****.

The officials have had a quick, uneven, and non-sensical whistle, both ways, from the opening tip of game 1. If you don't see that it is because you are a homer.

[membengal]

I would commend Minneosota for a fantastic series that is totally up in the air but their fans are unreal whiners. Probably take after Beverly. Not surprised to see that here too, I suppose.

Whine on.

[Betterread]

oh good lord. Stop. The idea of memphis getting officiating help is hilarious, as a long-time memphis fan. JJJ has barely been able to play this series due to a crazy fast whistle. The officials have been **** for five games now, both ways.

JJJ and Brooks are league leaders in fouling year after year. And Brooks is also a dirty player a la Grayson Allen. Your team hacks away non-stop and now Bane shoved our coach Finch. He got a tech but should get suspended. If he doesn’t get suspended, the league is doing Memphis yet another “favor” . Who does that? Can you tell me the last time a player just shoved a coach, who was standing in his provided area and coaching and Bane was waiting on that same sideline for side out and he just shoved Finch. Bane Didn’t have the ball. He just was doing the Memphis Aggro macho trash talking pose that give Memphis “energy”.

[membengal]

Yup. You are blinded. Not gonna engage. Sorry you can't discuss rationally. Typical of the T-wolves fanbase though, so props for consistency.

[Bourgeois Zee]

okey dokey. The officiating has been great. Flawless. All in memphis's favor. GTFO out with this nonsense. The style of play will yield more memphis times at the line period. To equate times at line with uneven officiating is bull****.

I'm not a Minnesota homer, and I see a decided edge given to Memphis, particularly Morant that is not given to any player on the TWolf team.

I mean, it's a national talking point, but sure, call someone else a homer...

Morant gets calls that KAT, Edwards, et al do not. That's a pretty easy argument to make. Memphis won last night's game because of a remarkably friendly whistle.

[membengal]

I'm not a Minnesota homer, and I see a decided edge given to Memphis, particularly Morant that is not given to any player on the TWolf team.

I mean, it's a national talking point, but sure, call someone else a homer...

He's literally a homer.

[Bourgeois Zee]

He's literally a homer.

Right, okay, but he wasn't the guy who made the initial claim here. I was.

[membengal]

It's fine. Too many NBA discussions turn on this crap.

The T-wolves are a tremendous young team. So is Memphis. The series has been fascinating and fun.

The officiating has been crazy bad with way too many quick whistles.

Enjoy the whining if that's what gets everyone off.

[membengal]

Right, okay, but he wasn't the guy who made the initial claim here. I was.

You either have watched all five games or you haven't. Perhaps you have. IN GAME ONE, QUARTER ONE, the officials WHISTLED TWENTY FOULS COMBINED. It was insane. It has been bad whistles blown constantly making both fan bases mad from the jump. Sometimes the lightest brush called, then mugging not called. It has sucked. That has now happened for five games. To the irritation of both teams and fanbases.

But it is stupid as **** to reduce this series to officiating. Or to blame officiating for Memphis being up 3-2 in a series that Minny can still very easily win 4-3 (and a series where one team dumped two different 25-point leads in one game - but perhaps that was officiating too).

[Betterread]

I would commend Minneosota for a fantastic series that is totally up in the air but their fans are unreal whiners. Probably take after Beverly. Not surprised to see that here too, I suppose.

Whine on.
Twolves haven’t been fined for whining. Taylor Jenkins has been fined for it. Lost a lot of respect for your team by their whining, flopping,histrionics and, other than Bane and Clarke, overall poor play.

[membengal]

Twolves haven’t been fined for whining. Taylor Jenkins has been fined for it. Lost a lot of respect for your team by their whining, flopping,histrionics and, other than Bane and Clarke, overall poor play.

lol. right back at you, fan of pat beverly and KT. Hope you skip some more of those deadly 25-point leads. Or 13 point leads.

All coaches work the officials during series - during games and in press conferences. Taylor did exactly what he should have given the insane officiating in game 4. If Finch has an issue with whistle in game 5, he should address it. I bet it's a massive MN whistle in game 6. You won't complain about that, I will assume.

if the idea of coaches working refs is a new thing for you, I don't know what to tell you. Watch some games.

[membengal]

To clarify, and to be accurate:


To put it simply, the refs are stealing the show. The first quarter of Tuesday’s Game 2 took north of 40 minutes to complete thanks to the guys wearing stripes’ insistence on blowing their whistles. In totality, 20 fouls were called and a staggering 33 free throws were attempted through the first 12 minutes of play. Flargrants, technicals, charges, blocking fouls — you name it, it was called.

And that opening quarter of Game 2 wasn’t a first. The first frame of Game 1 was quite similar — 18 fouls and 19 free throws combined between the two teams.

The officiating has blown goats. From the jump. Both teams have been right to be pissed. But LOL to the idea that the league has some kind of directive to get Memphis (MEMPHIS OF ALL PLACES) through to the next round. I laugh heartily at that insanity.

[Betterread]

lol. right back at you, fan of pat beverly and KT. Hope you skip some more of those deadly 25-point leads. Or 13 point leads.

All coaches work the officials during series - during games and in press conferences. Taylor did exactly what he should have given the insane officiating in game 4. If Finch has an issue with whistle in game 5, he should address it. I bet it's a massive MN whistle in game 6. You won't complain about that, I will assume.

if the idea of coaches working refs is a new thing for you, I don't know what to tell you. Watch some games.

Yes. Beverly and KAT flop, whine, and foul non-stop and then complain about the fouling. They deserve all the fouls they get called on them, and probably a lot more. But my favorite players on the team Edwards and Vanderbilt, don’t play that game and Vanderbilt gets fouled a lot trying to rebound and Edwards drives almost as much as Jah but doesn’t get calls when he is fouled at the rim.

[Betterread]

To clarify, and to be accurate:



The officiating has blown goats. From the jump. Both teams have been right to be pissed. But LOL to the idea that the league has some kind of directive to get Memphis (MEMPHIS OF ALL PLACES) through to the next round. I laugh heartily at that insanity.
I agree with that too. Memphis is a better constructed team. But the Twolves have found some schemes that work and the Griz are not playing that well. So the refereeing should reflect that, rather than reward them for some kind of privilege they claim, but don’t display with their play.

[M2]

Maybe I'm just the most laissez-faire NBA watcher on the planet, but the calls never bother me. My general take on officiating is fans in every sport maintain the calls are always against them and common logic dictates they can't all be right. Don't get me wrong, calls get missed, but I'm of the view that most of the game does not involve the refs while way too much of the reaction focuses on little else.

Here's an example, the 6th foul call on Jayson Tatum in Game 4 of the Nets series was flat wrong. There's no foul on the play. Immediately after that there was another call on Marcus Smart that also wasn't a foul. Yet what happened next? The Celtics scored some critical buckets and got some stops and put the game to bed. Jaylen Brown had an all-time recovery and finish on what might have been a turnover for a less athletic player, and Al Horford beat the Nets down the court for a put back. That's what we should be talking about instead of the Tatum call. Too many didn't do that. Some of the coverage/commentary I've seen would give the impression that Boston lost.

I'm loving the Memphis-Minnesota series. Don't care who wins, though I'd like the Wolves to take the next game just so it goes seven. It's been dynamite basketball.

[membengal]

I agree with that too. Memphis is a better constructed team. But the Twolves have found some schemes that work and the Griz are not playing that well.

You did well here. Full agreement that T-wolves are playing well with good schemes and have been the better team for long stretches of this series. I envy in particular how well MN shoots the 3 and hunts for 3s.


So the refereeing should reflect that, rather than reward them for some kind of privilege they claim, but don’t display with their play.

lol. NO. so close to being a good post. the officials are NOT officiating this with some thumb on the scale due to any kind of "privilege". That's nonsense. They are just bad officials.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Maybe I'm just the most laissez-faire NBA watcher on the planet, but the calls never bother me.

It only bothers me when it's obvious and tilts the game to one side or the other.

Last night, late in the game, the officials helped Memphis win.

It will be fascinating to read the two minute report today to see if the NBA owns up to some of the more egregious calls.

[Rdirtypirates]

Twolves haven’t been fined for whining. Taylor Jenkins has been fined for it. Lost a lot of respect for your team by their whining, flopping,histrionics and, other than Bane and Clarke, overall poor play.

This is garbage. I am a fan of neither team, Memphis is a better team. They showed it in the regular season, and are going to finish this series off and show it. Officiating has been putrid, but in no way did that make Minnesota choke away two big leads. They just aren't ready. Anyone who thinks Morant isn't playing well is definitely a homer. Maybe next year probably not though.

[membengal]

It's been dynamite basketball.

It really has been, right? As a fan of one of the teams, it has also been EXCRUCIATING. But I presume for non-fans it has been interesting as hell without the pain that the zealots of the two teams are going through watching these games unfold. Love that two of the youngest rosters in the NBA are going at it like this. I would say ANT is gonna be a star but...feels like he is already there.

[M2]

It really has been, right? As a fan of one of the teams, it has also been EXCRUCIATING. But I presume for non-fans it has been interesting as hell without the pain that the zealots of the two teams are going through watching these games unfold. Love that two of the youngest rosters in the NBA are going at it like this. I would say ANT is gonna be a star but...feels like he is already there.

FWIW, I think it's great we've got Memphis and Minnesota partisans who are HOT over this series. The want factor has got to be through the roof. This is about which young team is most ascendant in the West. It's an inheritance fight.

[membengal]

FWIW, I think it's great we've got Memphis and Minnesota partisans who are HOT over this series. The want factor has got to be through the roof. This is about which young team is most ascendant in the West. It's an inheritance fight.

this feels right. Looks to me like both staking a huge claim. Memphis m a y b e a hair ahead due to getting there a year early last year. Like MN's coach. Like the young talent. Hate Beverly. Like I am sure they hate Brooks. Fun series. It's killing me. KILLING ME.

[texasdave]

Maybe this thread should be closed, and a new thread started? It's up to nearly 1,100 posts.

[Rdirtypirates]

FWIW, I think it's great we've got Memphis and Minnesota partisans who are HOT over this series. The want factor has got to be through the roof. This is about which young team is most ascendant in the West. It's an inheritance fight.

This series and Suns and Pelicans have been surprisingly must watch

[Betterread]

Here's an example, the 6th foul call on Jayson Tatum in Game 4 of the Nets series was flat wrong. There's no foul on the play. Immediately after that there was another call on Marcus Smart that also wasn't a foul. Yet what happened next? The Celtics scored some critical buckets and got some stops and put the game to bed. Jaylen Brown had an all-time recovery and finish on what might have been a turnover for a less athletic player, and Al Horford beat the Nets down the court for a put back. That's what we should be talking about instead of the Tatum call. Too many didn't do that. Some of the coverage/commentary I've seen would give the impression that Boston lost.

I'm loving the Memphis-Minnesota series. Don't care who wins, though I'd like the Wolves to take the next game just so it goes seven. It's been dynamite basketball.
The acceptance of bad calls going against your team is healthy.
And I also noticed how Boston reacted to the awful 6th foul on Tatum. First, Tatum just chuckles at the “cosmic joke” and then walks over to the bench and sits down. No histrionics. I think his reaction was important: it implies that while unpleasant, it is part of the game and game goes on.
But I know that I view bad officiating differently for different teams I follow. If a team is successful overall, I am more sanguine (never Laisser-faire - I can never use that word without thinking of US foreign policy hypocrisy connected with its use) about it, usually considering it as a problem to be mitigated, rather than dwelling on any perception of unfairness.
Boston is by far the most successful pro sports city in the US right now. In every pro sport - football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, they have won a championship since 2000. So it makes it easier to go with the ups and downs of one team.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The acceptance of bad calls going against your team is healthy.
And I also noticed how Boston reacted to the awful 6th foul on Tatum. First, Tatum just chuckles at the “cosmic joke” and then walks over to the bench and sits down. No histrionics. I think his reaction was important: it implies that while unpleasant, it is part of the game and game goes on.
But I know that I view bad officiating differently for different teams I follow. If a team is successful overall, I am more sanguine (never Laisser-faire - I can never use that word without thinking of US foreign policy hypocrisy connected with its use) about it, usually considering it as a problem to be mitigated, rather than dwelling on any perception of unfairness.
Boston is by far the most successful pro sports city in the US right now. In every pro sport - football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, they have won a championship since 2000. So it makes it easier to go with the ups and downs of one team.

Certainly helped to be up 3 games to none at that point too.

[Betterread]

If Memphis wins the series, I won’t think it was because of the refereeing.
On a continuum, it does not rise to an egregious level for me, at least.
And even with all the back and forth, both teams are behaving pretty chivalrously. Whining is annoying, but there have been no fights, no super dirty takedowns.
Memphis is really good, they can beat anybody in the league. They took 2 of 3 v Phoenix. The Twolves are way more inconsistent and their highs are not a Phoenix beating high. But the Twolves are giving them a quality fight and they are still alive. They have met and exceeded expectations I have had for them at the beginning of the year.

[M2]

The acceptance of bad calls going against your team is healthy.
And I also noticed how Boston reacted to the awful 6th foul on Tatum. First, Tatum just chuckles at the “cosmic joke” and then walks over to the bench and sits down. No histrionics. I think his reaction was important: it implies that while unpleasant, it is part of the game and game goes on.
But I know that I view bad officiating differently for different teams I follow. If a team is successful overall, I am more sanguine (never Laisser-faire - I can never use that word without thinking of US foreign policy hypocrisy connected with its use) about it, usually considering it as a problem to be mitigated, rather than dwelling on any perception of unfairness.
Boston is by far the most successful pro sports city in the US right now. In every pro sport - football, baseball, basketball, soccer, hockey, they have won a championship since 2000. So it makes it easier to go with the ups and downs of one team.

I cannot stress strongly enough that Boston is not my team. Never has been. In fact, back when I had strong feelings about NBA franchises, the Celtics were #1 with no one even close to them on my "hate that team" list. If the Celtics play the Bucks in the next round, I could not care less who wins (though I think I'm predicting the winner of that one is taking the NBA title). And the only Boston area team I do root for is the Revolution. Don't care about football, at all. Don't like the Bruins mostly because their fans are the worst. I can take or leave the Red Sox (and I like the Yankees better).

I was rooting for Boston to beat the Nets because I've thought the Brooklyn project was given a lot of unearned praise from the basketball media when it deserved a more critical viewing. Also, Kyrie Irving is a charlatan. Immense talent. Would never want him on my team. Complaining that the Nets hadn't had time during the regular season to jell when he was the reason for that had to be peak Kyrie.

You're totally right about Tatum and Boston taking it well when he fouled out. That team has developed faith in each other, which is wild for those of us who can remember all the way back to December.

[Big Red Smokey]

https://twitter.com/aabhifr/status/1519430712910401536?s=20&t=4vMx7MzT5rLXDwlDrFfxWQ

Yeah, everything was above board here :laugh:

I dare say the Memphis fan doth protests too much :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Rdirtypirates]

https://twitter.com/aabhifr/status/1519430712910401536?s=20&t=4vMx7MzT5rLXDwlDrFfxWQ

Yeah, everything was above board here :laugh:

I dare say the Memphis fan doth protests too much :laugh::laugh::laugh:

So on thread it had 7 bad calls, some of which were the correct call. Even if they are bad calls you are saying I can't go through and find 7 bad calls that went the other way in 5 games. Also, 7 bad calls over 5games shouldn't be an excuse. This narrative is tired.

[Bourgeois Zee]

So on thread it had 7 bad calls, some of which were the correct call. Even if they are bad calls you are saying I can't go through and find 7 bad calls that went the other way in 5 games. Also, 7 bad calls over 5games shouldn't be an excuse. This narrative is tired.

It was just Game 5, according to the Twitter account.

Seven questionable calls that Ja Morant got the benefit of-- three in the last 5:14.

That's a lot.

[Mutaman]

The Bucks being the Bucks, they will get blown out in game one, lose a tight one in game two, then win 4 of the next 5. Although I have a bad feeling Khris will miss the series.

[Kingspoint]

Aaron Gordon having a game so far.

Bones Nyland needs to recognize that when he's out there with Cousins, that Cousins needs to be the #1 option on Offense. Those two jacked up "3"'s were not good decisions. Nuggets called timeout and, I believe, addressed this.

[Rdirtypirates]

It was just Game 5, according to the Twitter account.

Seven questionable calls that Ja Morant got the benefit of-- three in the last 5:14.

That's a lot.

Yeah, I thought it was over the five games. Some of them calls were questionable imo, but with it broke down like that it definitely looks more egregious than when you are watching the game. FWIW I am an occasional regular season watcher and playoff watcher so my opinions on basketball aren't probably the most accurate if I am being honest.
I don't like either team, and imo it has been a fun series to watch even with the bad officiating. I hope it goes seven.

[M2]

Aaron Gordon having a game so far.

Bones Nyland needs to recognize that when he's out there with Cousins, that Cousins needs to be the #1 option on Offense. Those two jacked up "3"'s were not good decisions. Nuggets called timeout and, I believe, addressed this.

Bones has never met a 3 he thought was a bad decision.