2021-22 NBA playoffs, 2022 NBA off-season and 2022 NBA draft

[Kingspoint]

Mentioned in the other thread that we are near 1100 posts in it, so here ya go...

[Kingspoint]

Again, Aaron Gordon really stepping up the last two games with his best tonight. This Aaron Gordon, along with a Will Barton who puts in double-digits in the 4th (extremely easy for him to do), will pull out a win tonight.

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Jeff Green having a horrible game.

[Kingspoint]

2nd Half is going to be excellent....lots of adjustments that can be made.

I do see Will Barton going off for 18 2nd Half points, 12 in the 4th.

Cousins had a great 1st Half. Warriors won't let that happen in the 2nd Half and will abuse him Defensively to a tune of DEN giving up 10 points in 2 minutes when DEN puts him out there again. It will be so quick that a timeout will come before Cousins is out there for 3 minutes.

[M2]

Jeff Green having a horrible game.

Well, he is Jeff Green.

[M2]

Just a general thought I've been having, but this playoffs (and the season) have been sort of a changing of the guard. The 2010s are coming to a close. Guys in their 30s are having a rough time.

[texasdave]

With 3 quarters in the books, Draymond Green has played 27 minutes, and still does not have a rebound.

[Kingspoint]

Just a general thought I've been having, but this playoffs (and the season) have been sort of a changing of the guard. The 2010s are coming to a close. Guys in their 30s are having a rough time.

Interesting...I had the same thought the last couple of nights.

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With 3 quarters in the books, Draymond Green has played 27 minutes, and still does not have a rebound.

Must have been getting advice from Norman Powell on how to play against the Nuggets.

[texasdave]

Tim Duncan played for 19 seasons, and the Spurs never won fewer than 50 games over that span. Amazing.

[Kingspoint]

Wow....Jokic with 5 fouls early...8:13 left in 4th, after he got into the game for just one play.

Barton and Gordon are going to have to take charge of the Offense, but Barton just came out when Jokic went in. Timeout Nuggets (to get Barton back in, I assume).

[M2]

Wow....Jokic with 5 fouls early...8:13 left in 4th, after he got into the game for just one play.

Barton and Gordon are going to have to take charge of the Offense, but Barton just came out when Jokic went in. Timeout Nuggets (to get Barton back in, I assume).

It's all Boogie right now.

[Kingspoint]

It's all Boogie right now.

He made good passes that others didn't convert on.

[Kingspoint]

Barton choked on that free throw jumper.

That's one of the thoughts I've had about these guys in their 30's showing their age. Barton would have hit that shot in previous seasons.

Back-to-back-to-back bad plays by Barton.

[Kingspoint]

Aaron Gordon's doing everything he can, but Barton has completely disappeared. He has zero confidence in himself right now, and I would take Barton out of the game and put somebody else in.

[Kingspoint]

Man, I love Gary Payton, Jr.

It pissed me off when the Blazers wouldn't even give him an invite to training camp. That's how much Paul Allen hated Oregon players.

Just wish it wasn't the Warriors that got to benefit from his skillset and high character. But, the Warriors are an organization that doesn't care about what others think while always doing things the right way (except for their incessant whining).

[Kingspoint]

Don't think the Nuggets are going to want to pay the $14.3M for Barton next season, nor would anybody else want to.

[M2]

Don't think the Nuggets are going to want to pay the $14.3M for Barton next season, nor would anybody else want to.

Somebody always talks themselves into vets like Barton. Denver definitely should move him.

[Kingspoint]

Somebody always talks themselves into vets like Barton. Denver definitely should move him.

It is an expiring contract.

[Mutaman]

With 3 quarters in the books, Draymond Green has played 27 minutes, and still does not have a rebound.

Just noticed that Wilt averaged 24.5 Rebounds per game for his career. That's over 13 seasons. The worst year he ever had he averaged 20 per game. And one year he averaged 30. 30 rebounds per game!

[Kingspoint]

Just noticed that Wilt averaged 24.5 Rebounds per game for his career. That's over 13 seasons. The worst year he ever had he averaged 20 per game. And one year he averaged 30. 30 rebounds per game!

He pretty much holds these records for most franchises:

Most points scored against in a single game.

Most total rebounds against in a single game.

The points one has taken a hit the last 10 years because of the 3-pt shot and not letting defenses play physically anymore, but the rebounds records are holding up.

[Chip R]

He pretty much holds these records for most franchises:

Most points scored against in a single game.

Most total rebounds against in a single game.

The points one has taken a hit the last 10 years because of the 3-pt shot and not letting defenses play physically anymore, but the rebounds records are holding up.

Also averaged 50.4 points in one season. In 1967 he led the league in assists per game just because he wanted to,

[Bourgeois Zee]

Somebody always talks themselves into vets like Barton. Denver definitely should move him.

It'll be interesting to see how Denver attacks this off-season.

Jokic is one of the top three players in the league and makes everyone around him better. He's also improving defensively. (While he's not a weapon on that end, he is well above average-- which is perhaps the most shocking statement you could have made about Jokic when he entered the league.) He and Murray should make for a solid one-two punch.

Do they keep Gordon? How about Porter? Monte Morris took a major step forward this year-- does he start next year with Murray? Do they turn to Bones Hyland, who also had some really good moments?

That's a team that has a sneaky outstanding core, but has been decimated by injuries multiple times. Time to blow it up or double down?

[Betterread]

It'll be interesting to see how Denver attacks this off-season.

Jokic is one of the top three players in the league and makes everyone around him better. He's also improving defensively. (While he's not a weapon on that end, he is well above average-- which is perhaps the most shocking statement you could have made about Jokic when he entered the league.) He and Murray should make for a solid one-two punch.

Do they keep Gordon? How about Porter? Monte Morris took a major step forward this year-- does he start next year with Murray? Do they turn to Bones Hyland, who also had some really good moments?

That's a team that has a sneaky outstanding core, but has been decimated by injuries multiple times. Time to blow it up or double down?
Denver has a pretty well constructed team that I would keep intact. Maybe give Hyland more minutes and letting Barton go. Every team can use another creator and shooter so draft or sign a prospect with that potential then see what happens. Denver is good at developing young talent.

[M2]

It'll be interesting to see how Denver attacks this off-season.

Jokic is one of the top three players in the league and makes everyone around him better. He's also improving defensively. (While he's not a weapon on that end, he is well above average-- which is perhaps the most shocking statement you could have made about Jokic when he entered the league.) He and Murray should make for a solid one-two punch.

Do they keep Gordon? How about Porter? Monte Morris took a major step forward this year-- does he start next year with Murray? Do they turn to Bones Hyland, who also had some really good moments?

That's a team that has a sneaky outstanding core, but has been decimated by injuries multiple times. Time to blow it up or double down?

My guess is they mostly stand pat. Murray and Porter give them their 2 and 3 options again. That will create all kinds of space for Gordon on the interior. Nnaji and Hyland both should take bigger roles, and they can push out Barton and JaMychal Green. They'll need to replace Boogie, who's surely getting paid elsewhere after the season he just had. Jeff Green has a player option for $4.5M. That price might work for both sides.

What they really need are wing defenders. I know, get in line, but a Herb Jones clone would be perfect for their starting unit. Morris, Bones, Jeff Green and Nnaji would give them a versatile 2nd unit. I thought Davon Reed looked good for them, but then they didn't carry him on the playoff roster. So no idea what's up there.

I'm looking at them to contend at the top of the West next season.

[Kingspoint]

It'll be interesting to see how Denver attacks this off-season.

Jokic is one of the top three players in the league and makes everyone around him better. He's also improving defensively. (While he's not a weapon on that end, he is well above average-- which is perhaps the most shocking statement you could have made about Jokic when he entered the league.) He and Murray should make for a solid one-two punch.

Do they keep Gordon? How about Porter? Monte Morris took a major step forward this year-- does he start next year with Murray? Do they turn to Bones Hyland, who also had some really good moments?

That's a team that has a sneaky outstanding core, but has been decimated by injuries multiple times. Time to blow it up or double down?

Looks like the Bucks a few seasons ago.

[goreds2]

76ers up by 22 with about 3 minutes remaining in 3rd qtr. Maxey, Greene and Harden showing more offensively this game.

[Kingspoint]

76ers up by 22 with about 3 minutes remaining in 3rd qtr. Maxey, Greene and Harden showing more offensively this game.

That TOR team is not very good. They need to finish them off.

[Kingspoint]

Suns/Pels Game 6 is excellent.

Larry Nance, Jr. took over and dominated the 1st Half. 10 pts and 6 Offensive Rebounds in 14 1st half minutes. Foul trouble for Valenciunas was the best thing that could have happened.

[Kingspoint]

Wow! 5 fouls on McCollum with 7 minutes left in the 3rd. 4 fouls on Jones and 10 for 10 from Paul.

New Orleans is in trouble.

[KoryMac5]

F-Embiid chants are reigning down in Toronto...he is so good at being the villain.

[Kingspoint]

Sixers go, "Enough of this crap. Let's bury them in Toronto!"

[Kingspoint]

Alvarado!!!

[M2]

F-Embiid chants are reigning down in Toronto...he is so good at being the villain.

I think Embiid might have exorcised his Toronto demons tonight.

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Alvarado!!!

I'm telling you, he's on his way to being everyone's favorite player.

[Kingspoint]

If there was a Western Conference MVP this season, Chris Paul is it.

[Kingspoint]

Well, C.J. did not step up in the 1st Rd his first season with NO, though he deferred a lot on purpose to others. He stepped up during the regular season and the play-in games, but overall, he needed to do better in the 1st Rd against the Suns.

[Kingspoint]

Hell of a run by the Pelicans who get Zion next season, AND, they get their 1st Rd pick (of which, they actually get the Lakers' pick, a lottery pick, who gets the Pels' pick) thanks to them making the 1st Rd. Based on how well they did last season picking in the draft, that pick should be valuable.

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What a performance in this series by Chris Paul. Unbelievable!

[Kingspoint]

I've never seen Chris Paul this emotional before after a game.

[texasdave]

Chris Paul was nearly perfect tonight. 14-14 from the field. 1-1 from the 3-pt line. And 4-4 on free throws.

[Kingspoint]

UTA/DAL is so less physical than PHO/NOP.

Neither UTA or DAL are physical enough to get to the Western Conference Finals. PHO will eat them up, sweep either team that advances.

[M2]

Hell of a run by the Pelicans who get Zion next season, AND, they get their 1st Rd pick thanks to them making the 1st Rd. Based on how well they did last season picking in the draft, that pick should be valuable.

Do they want Zion? Would you feel good about blowing into the penalty for a guy who's played 85 games in three seasons and not at all this year? And he's not looking svelte on the sideline. They might do well to look into a trade. For instance, could they get Patrick Williams and Coby White off the Bulls for Zion and Kira Lewis? Those two, plus what they've got, plus maybe a scorer like Mathurin in the draft and that's a deep team.

I'm guessing a whole bunch of teams would lineup for Zion. Might make sense to make him someone else's headache.

[Kingspoint]

Do they want Zion? Would you feel good about blowing into the penalty for a guy who's played 85 games in three seasons and not at all this year? And he's not looking svelte on the sideline. They might do well to look into a trade. For instance, could they get Patrick Williams and Coby White off the Bulls for Zion and Kira Lewis? Those two, plus what they've got, plus maybe a scorer like Mathurin in the draft and that's a deep team.

I'm guessing a whole bunch of teams would lineup for Zion. Might make sense to make him someone else's headache.

Definitely something to think about, especially with the core they already have and their ability to draft well, a new HC, who will be here at least the next six seasons. The haul they could get for Zion is a ton, if they don't get greedy. But, it'd be tricky to put him on the market without Zion knowing. Trade him for Anthony Davis and bring Davis back to New Orleans.

[Kingspoint]

I don't see any playoff intensity in DAL/UTA.

[M2]

Bojan Bogdanovic, full shun. He's dead to the whole state of Utah.

[KoryMac5]

I don't see any playoff intensity in DAL/UTA.

Doncic looks pretty intense to me hitting 3's over Gobert and waving bye bye to the Utah fans...Dallas has such good ball movement when they go with their 3 guard line up.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Bojan Bogdanovic, full shun. He's dead to the whole state of Utah.

That was a tough shot to miss, but way down the list of things with this stupid team.

[Boston Red]

Bojan Bogdanovic, full shun. He's dead to the whole state of Utah.

There can't be many people in Utah who still actually cared about this team by the time that shot went up. He did Jazz fans a favor by putting this clown show of a season out of its misery.

[BuckeyeRed27]

There can't be many people in Utah who still actually cared about this team by the time that shot went up. He did Jazz fans a favor by putting this clown show of a season out of its misery.

I was telling my friend last night that I was fully confident the Jazz were going to win the next 2 and then win Game 1 in Phoenix and get hope fully restored before losing 4 straight to the Suns in various forms of soul crushing fashion.

So thank you Bojan, you’ve saved me two weeks of staying up until 1am.

[M2]

That was a tough shot to miss, but way down the list of things with this stupid team.

He had a lousy series too. It was a fitting cap to him being generally useless. He was getting eaten alive on the defensive end.

So, who's around for that team next season? Seems like they could move anyone. Might want to see if the Knicks will make a sweetheart offer for Mitchell. Gobert's getting tossed into all kinds of rumors. Could they land Onyeka Okongwu and De'Andre Hunter in a package for Rudy? Is there a market for Bogey? It would seem like a whole bunch of non-playoff teams could use shooting on the wing. How shipping him to Cleveland for Markkanen? And would anyone touch Mike Conley with a ten-foot pole?

[BuckeyeRed27]

He had a lousy series too. It was a fitting cap to him being generally useless. He was getting eaten alive on the defensive end.

So, who's around for that team next season? Seems like they could move anyone. Might want to see if the Knicks will make a sweetheart offer for Mitchell. Gobert's getting tossed into all kinds of rumors. Could they land Onyeka Okongwu and De'Andre Hunter in a package for Rudy? Is there a market for Bogey? It would seem like a whole bunch of non-playoff teams could use shooting on the wing. How shipping him to Cleveland for Markkanen? And would anyone touch Mike Conley with a ten-foot pole?

He was very bad in Game 5, but was fine other than that. Once Luka came back and he had to be the 2 way guy his offense fell off a bit, but that’s normal, and is more a team construction problem than a Bogey problem.

Guessing what Ainge will do is a bit of a fools errand, but I think he will start by seeing if he can keep Mitchell and maybe Bogdonavich and get rid of everyone else. If the Knicks want to offer Barrett and their pick this year and some other stuff for Mitchell I don’t think you hang up.

[Betterread]

He was very bad in Game 5, but was fine other than that. Once Luka came back and he had to be the 2 way guy his offense fell off a bit, but that’s normal, and is more a team construction problem than a Bogey problem.

Guessing what Ainge will do is a bit of a fools errand, but I think he will start by seeing if he can keep Mitchell and maybe Bogdonavich and get rid of everyone else. If the Knicks want to offer Barrett and their pick this year and some other stuff for Mitchell I don’t think you hang up.
This is an important offseason for Utah. If they don’t make the right roster changes, they will end up out of the playoffs. What a rapid fall from the high level they were playing at in early/ middle 21-22 regular season.

[M2]

He was very bad in Game 5, but was fine other than that. Once Luka came back and he had to be the 2 way guy his offense fell off a bit, but that’s normal, and is more a team construction problem than a Bogey problem.

Guessing what Ainge will do is a bit of a fools errand, but I think he will start by seeing if he can keep Mitchell and maybe Bogdonavich and get rid of everyone else. If the Knicks want to offer Barrett and their pick this year and some other stuff for Mitchell I don’t think you hang up.

There isn't a lot they ought to keep. It's probably the right time to move Rudy. I'd think Ainge would deal Bogey just because he'll be looking to get younger. On a more general note, Atlanta almost surely is looking to make a splash and I'd be all over Okongwu.

[texasdave]

This sucks for the Sixers: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33828353/philadelphia-76ers-joel-embiid-indefinitely-orbital-fracture-mild-concussion

Joel Embiid out indefinitely with an orbital fracture and a concussion. He was already playing with a torn ligament in his left thumb.

It happened late, late in the 4th quarter with Philadelphia leading 119-90. Why was he even out there?

[Kingspoint]

TOWNS:

"SLAM YOU very much!!!!:"

[Kingspoint]

Doncic looks pretty intense to me hitting 3's over Gobert and waving bye bye to the Utah fans...Dallas has such good ball movement when they go with their 3 guard line up.

Doncic intense? I don't think so.

But, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about team intensity. 1 or 2 guys who are intense doesn't do jack in the playoffs. It has to be something bought into team-wide to make an impact. DAL has zero intensity as a team. Same goes for UTA. There's just no blood flowing in those teams.

DAL will get swept by the Suns. They'd also lose the series if they played New Orleans right now.

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Towns looks like a fool with all of his whining every other posession.

[SteelSD]

This sucks for the Sixers: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33828353/philadelphia-76ers-joel-embiid-indefinitely-orbital-fracture-mild-concussion

Joel Embiid out indefinitely with an orbital fracture and a concussion. He was already playing with a torn ligament in his left thumb.

It happened late, late in the 4th quarter with Philadelphia leading 119-90. Why was he even out there?

Yeah, that sucks. I also wondered why he was out there at the time, but it looked like Rivers was waiting for the Raptors to concede by emptying their own bench first. That being said, the officials lost control of the game long before that, not calling repeated shoves and elbows from the Raptors, ignored Boucher grabbing Embiid's ankle, and didn't call a dangerous undercut on a Harden three. Scottie Barnes was consistently trying to instigate. Beyond chippy from Toronto and it got progressively worse as the butt kicking continued. It was not surprising that Siakam whipped an elbow to Embiid's face (which was originally called a foul on Embiid, before being overturned) right after Embiid dunked on the entire Canadian population. Siakam really outed himself as a complete Milo this series. And I didn't care from a score perspective at that point, but that was an easy Flagrant I call at minimum, but the officials botched that upon review as well.

The concussion protocol mandates that Embiid be out 5 days minimum, but he'd be out for at least that long anyway. He suffered a similar injury in 2018, which kept him on the shelf from March 28th until April 19th. I have zero expectation that he'll be back for any games in the Miami series as Game 7 would be scheduled for May 14th. Should the Sixers pull off a miracle without Embiid and advance, maybe he could play in the conference finals with a face shield (which he hates), but that assumes the injury isn't more severe than it was in 2018.

[Betterread]

Good year Twolves. Memphis just dominated Minny in the fourth quarter all series. Twolves Didn’t always play great this series, but played well enough and played hard. Salutes to Bane and Clarke. Relentless and skilled.
Golden State has been given a blueprint how to neutralize Morant. Let’s see if Kerr earns his paycheck. Morant relies on Adams “blocking” for him. With Adams out, he’s not the same slasher. Needs the refs to bail him out to get points from free throws.
Oh. And Dlo sucks, way more than Towns. One good game all Series on a max contract.

[Betterread]

This sucks for the Sixers: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33828353/philadelphia-76ers-joel-embiid-indefinitely-orbital-fracture-mild-concussion

Joel Embiid out indefinitely with an orbital fracture and a concussion. He was already playing with a torn ligament in his left thumb.

It happened late, late in the 4th quarter with Philadelphia leading 119-90. Why was he even out there?

It’s the same old story. Embiid always misses key games due to injury. Year after year. First off, let’s see if Philly can overcome this. Let’s see if Maxey and Harden and Harris can blossom without Embiid.

[SteelSD]

It’s the same old story. Embiid always misses key games due to injury. Year after year.

Not sure where that narrative is coming from because, until now, Joel Embiid has missed only four playoff games in his career due to injury; two of those due to a separate freak orbital fracture.

[texasdave]

Embiid needs some of these: 18262

[M2]

Oh. And Dlo sucks, way more than Towns. One good game all Series on a max contract.

I'm wondering if they can leverage Dlo into something. Zach LaVine, Donovan Mitchell, Brad Beal, De'Aaron Fox (challenge trade), Malcolm Brogdon and Collin Sexton all will be various levels of available.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm wondering if they can leverage Dlo into something. Zach LaVine, Donovan Mitchell, Brad Beal, De'Aaron Fox (challenge trade), Malcolm Brogdon and Collin Sexton all will be various levels of available.

I don't think Sacramento has any intention of dealing Fox.

They dealt Haliburton in order to pair Fox with a big. When healthy after the Haliburton deal, Fox's numbers were phenomenal. Like, All-NBA phenomenal.

His combined numbers after Haliburton was dealt include a three-point percentage north of 37% and an overall FG% over 50%. His assists jumped by nearly two a game too. He also averaged nearly 30 ppg on a 30+% usage rate.

[membengal]

I'm wondering if they can leverage Dlo into something. Zach LaVine, Donovan Mitchell, Brad Beal, De'Aaron Fox (challenge trade), Malcolm Brogdon and Collin Sexton all will be various levels of available.

I'm busy trying to figure out what will get LaVine to Memphis.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm busy trying to figure out what will get LaVine to Memphis.

Lots of cash.

[Bourgeois Zee]

There is so little available on the unrestricted open market for 2022-2023. A team of free agents is typically dominant. Not this year. The best team free agency could provide would include one great target (LaVine), a couple of maybe-they-can-first-division-starter types (Brunson and Monk), injury question marks (Warren and Oladipo), and a boatload of solid low-minute centers.

Teams with lots of cap room can either deal for difference-makers, sign LaVine, or wait it out. Not a great off-season for improving a team easily and without cost.

That said, were I a GM, guys who intrigue me would include Oladipo, Jalen Smith, TJ Warren, and Bruce Brown.

There are enough centers rolling around that I could pick one up fairly cheaply, I think.

[M2]

I expect a lot of sign-and-trade this summer. LaVine is going to be the big one. I do not expect him to go to a team with cap space. He could stay in Chicago, but he can get paid and chase a ring. My leading candidates for teams where he'd have big impact are Dallas, Brooklyn and Atlanta. Maybe throw Miami in there too, though I have no idea how they make the money work.

[Betterread]

I don't think Sacramento has any intention of dealing Fox.

They dealt Haliburton in order to pair Fox with a big. When healthy after the Haliburton deal, Fox's numbers were phenomenal. Like, All-NBA phenomenal.

His combined numbers after Haliburton was dealt include a three-point percentage north of 37% and an overall FG% over 50%. His assists jumped by nearly two a game too. He also averaged nearly 30 ppg on a 30+% usage rate.
I know. But the team sucked. They were in line to get the 10 seed when they made the trade for Sabonis, and they failed. I won’t put too much blame on Sabonis, because he was new to the team. So you’re left with Barnes and Fox.

[M2]

Didn't see either game today, but I suspect the story in both is the teams that haven't been to the top of the mountain got handed a lesson by the ones who have.

[goreds2]

This sucks for the Sixers: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33828353/philadelphia-76ers-joel-embiid-indefinitely-orbital-fracture-mild-concussion

Joel Embiid out indefinitely with an orbital fracture and a concussion. He was already playing with a torn ligament in his left thumb.

It happened late, late in the 4th quarter with Philadelphia leading 119-90. Why was he even out there?

Totally crazy he was still on the floor that late in a blowout game. I even mentioned that to the wife before it happened as of why he was still out there along with Harden who is also dinged up. That is all on the coach.

[membengal]

Didn't see either game today, but I suspect the story in both is the teams that haven't been to the top of the mountain got handed a lesson by the ones who have.

not really in the warriors/grizzlies game. That was a war.

[M2]

not really in the warriors/grizzlies game. That was a war.

Definitely close, but Memphis didn't convert on either of those final two possessions. My guess, and it's pure speculation, is they'll close better the next time.

[Betterread]

Didn't see either game today, but I suspect the story in both is the teams that haven't been to the top of the mountain got handed a lesson by the ones who have.

Two totally different games. GS - Memphis was a great game. Close and competitive nearly the whole game. GS overcame Draymond committing a totally weird, anger filled flagrant that got him ejected. They (JordaN Poole) responded well. Poole is carrying GS.
And then there was Boston Milwaukee. Poor shooting by both teams. Milwaukee played with intent, while Boston just vomited early shot clock bad three pointers. In 90 playoff games, the 89 points by Boston was the fifth lowest.

[Betterread]

Definitely close, but Memphis didn't convert on either of those final two possessions. My guess, and it's pure speculation, is they'll close better the next time.
Boston scored on 7 of 18 offensive possessions the fourth quarter before they pulled the first team. Just about anything would be an improvement over that effort.

[M2]

Boston scored on 7 of 18 offensive possessions the fourth quarter before they pulled the first team. Just about anything would be an improvement over that effort.

Seems like they got a taste of what championship-level entails. They'd better adjust fast because the Bucks are the real thing.

[dubc47834]

Seems like they got a taste of what championship-level entails. They'd better adjust fast because the Bucks are the real thing.

A lot of people in the national media were writing off the Bucks early in the year. Right now, the Bucks are my fav to come out of the East.

[Rojo Rijo]

A lot of people in the national media were writing off the Bucks early in the year. Right now, the Bucks are my fav to come out of the East.

I have no idea why, they've been my Champion pick all year. KM out causes some concern but I still think they get it done.

IMO anyone who doubts them it isnt doubting Giannis theyre continuing to not realize how good Jrue Holiday truly is.

[Kingspoint]

I have no idea why, they've been my Champion pick all year. KM out causes some concern but I still think they get it done.

IMO anyone who doubts them it isnt doubting Giannis theyre continuing to not realize how good Jrue Holiday truly is.

Hit the nail on the head about Holiday. Putting way too much stock in Middleton and far underestimating Holiday.

[Mutaman]

IMO anyone who doubts them it isnt doubting Giannis theyre continuing to not realize how good Jrue Holiday truly is.

I think there is still plenty of doubting Giannis by the national media- at least his defensive abilities.

[goreds2]

Totally crazy he was still on the floor that late in a blowout game. I even mentioned that to the wife before it happened as of why he was still out there along with Harden who is also dinged up. That is all on the coach.

Wad e ya know, Rivers takes Harden and Maxey out down by 20-ish with 4 minutes remaining.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Wad e ya know, Rivers takes Harden and Maxey out down by 20-ish with 4 minutes remaining.

This was the game Harden should have gone full-on Rocket-ball. Dared the refs to call 15 fouls.

Miami's physical. It's in their DNA. Goad them into some dumb fouls and reap the rewards. Take 30 shots.

Yet, he chooses to take only 13 shots in order to play distributor, but only ends up with 5 assists.

Dude was checked out before the game started. Went through the motions only.

[SteelSD]

Ok, there's four minutes left in the game, but this one is over. You're not going to win any NBA playoff games hitting only 15% of your threes. You're also not going to win giving DeAndre Jordan any minutes against a team like Miami. No reason to play him, but Rivers is going to live or die with Jordan, so he forced him into the lineup. The result was a putrid -22 in 17 minutes. Honestly, the only reason to play a big against Miami is if they can keep control Adebayo and keep them off the offensive boards; something Jordan isn't the least bit capable of doing. Not having Embiid is bad enough, but Rivers clearly doesn't know how to adjust. That's bonkers considering that the Sixers went on a run to take a one-point lead at halftime when they went small.

The good news is that early reports are that Embiid doesn't need surgery and his orbital isn't as bad as the Sixers thought it might be, so he may be back in game three. Maybe.

[M2]

Went to Sweet Green tonight and got the Devin Booker signature salad. Pretty tasty.

[Kingspoint]

I HATE Luka Doncic with a passion.

He flops and whines every single play.

I'm going to love watching him get swept by the Suns.

[Kingspoint]

Chris Paul is +24 in 11 minutes at the 1:41 mark of the 2nd Qtr.

[dubc47834]

I HATE Luka Doncic with a passion.

He flops and whines every single play.

I'm going to love watching him get swept by the Suns.

So does 95% of the rest of the NBA...get over it.

[BuckeyeRed27]

So does 95% of the rest of the NBA...get over it.

Luka is pretty gross about it. I noticed it when I went to a Mavs game a couple months ago, might have even posted about it. He’s so good, but the other stuff he does and the way he carries himself is a real turn off.

[KoryMac5]

Luka is pretty gross about it. I noticed it when I went to a Mavs game a couple months ago, might have even posted about it. He’s so good, but the other stuff he does and the way he carries himself is a real turn off.

Lots of factors in play with Luka...age...played Euro League ball...superstar in the NBA...I think as he gets older he will get more calls but also gain more maturity in how to deal with refs here in the states. I think if I remember he had 17 techs this season and 2 got rescinded which is a lot for a player.

[M2]

Lots of factors in play with Luka...age...played Euro League ball...superstar in the NBA...I think as he gets older he will get more calls but also gain more maturity in how to deal with refs here in the states. I think if I remember he had 17 techs this season and 2 got rescinded which is a lot for a player.

It might be a Euro thing too. Daniel Theis is pretty epic when it comes to protesting the calls against him and lobbying for calls in his favor. He might be the world's most innocent, and simultaneously aggrieved, man.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It might be a Euro thing too. Daniel Theis is pretty epic when it comes to protesting the calls against him and lobbying for calls in his favor. He might be the world's most innocent, and simultaneously aggrieved, man.

But he’s Daniel Theis. No one cares.

Luka is one of the best 7 players in the league. Act like it.

[Kingspoint]

So does 95% of the rest of the NBA...get over it.

You are making that crap up. The NBA flops about 5% of their plays. Try again, bud.

[goreds2]

76ers star Joel Embiid 'feeling a lot better,' still no timetable for his return


Joel Embiid’s concussion and orbital fracture are improving, but Doc Rivers isn’t quite ready to provide any specific timetable for his return for the Philadelphia 76ers.

Rivers, speaking ahead of their practice on Tuesday afternoon, said he wasn’t sure when Embiid will be able to return in their Eastern Conference semifinals series against the Miami Heat.

“I know he did something yesterday, but not much, and I know he’s feeling a lot better,” Rivers said.

“I don’t want to give false hope, either. So I’ll just stop there.”

Despite their struggles, Rivers is committed to Jordan in the starting lineup for Embiid.

“We are going to keep starting him whether you like it or not, because our guys believe in him,” he said after the loss.

Based on Game 1, the sooner Embiid is back, the better.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/76ers-star-joel-embiid-feeling-a-lot-better-still-no-timetable-for-his-return/ar-AAWTgXW

[SteelSD]

76ers star Joel Embiid 'feeling a lot better,' still no timetable for his return

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/76ers-star-joel-embiid-feeling-a-lot-better-still-no-timetable-for-his-return/ar-AAWTgXW

Great analysis on exactly how bad DeAndre Jordan is right now and how dumb Glenn Rivers is for playing him: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/doc-rivers-commitment-to-deandre-jordan-cost-76ers-in-game-1-vs-heat-and-could-easily-cost-them-the-series/

[M2]

Great analysis on exactly how bad DeAndre Jordan is right now and how dumb Glenn Rivers is for playing him: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/doc-rivers-commitment-to-deandre-jordan-cost-76ers-in-game-1-vs-heat-and-could-easily-cost-them-the-series/

For a moment there, I forgot Doc's real first name.

[SteelSD]

For a moment there, I forgot Doc's real first name.

It's Julius.

[M2]

Apparently Grit & Grind never left Memphis. They are putting bodies on the Warriors.

[SteelSD]

Apparently Grit & Grind never left Memphis. They are putting bodies on the Warriors.

A local shaman pulverizes Steven Adams' toenail shavings at shootaround and mixes them into the team's Gatorade.

[membengal]

Memphis / Golden state has been high level awesome playoff basketball.

1-1 heading west. 47 from Morant, 18 in 4th. Helluva game.

[Betterread]

Really interesting to see how GS defends Memphis. They are not guarding Jah Morant well at all. Andrew Wiggins on him? Are you kidding?
Gary Payton Jr was probably who they preferred but brooks wiped him out on a dirty play.
And letting JJJ all alone to shoot threes. Both Jah and JJJ are not good three point shooters but each have had a good shooting game.
But GS is defending everybody else very well. Bane and Brooks have been neutralized.
Memphis really focused on stopping Poole and they did pretty well. But They are not dominating GS on the glass. Really surprising.
And even more surprising - GS shot 18% from 3. 7-38. Wow.
Steve Kerr needs to slow down Jah with taking space space away from him. And replace Klay with Poole in the starting lineup. They are obvious tactics that need to be made. Kerr needs to start helping his team more.

[M2]

I know we've got playoffs to focus on, but I'm mildly fascinated by what the Wolves do heading into next season. It seems pretty obvious they need to get away from D'Angelo Russell. If Ant and KAT have the potential to be something (and McDaniels looked awfully good too), then they need to shed the anchor. Dlo's got one year and $31M left on his contract. Problem is no one needs him. What they'll probably have to do is strap their 1st round draft pick (#19) to get a team with some cap space to take him, and there aren't many of those.

My suggestion (and, Kingspoint, I promise you will hate this idea) is they send him to Portland for Josh Hart. I think that will keep the Blazers under the cap. Also, I fully expect Dame to be dealt this summer. They do not have the cap space or assets to get the multiple players they need to transform that team back into a contender. Go get the giant bag of assets for Dame. Russell can occupy space and possibly fetch something at the deadline if he's playing well. Main thing is Portland would gain a draft pick to help in their rebuilding process and they'll have cap space again after a year.

What Minnesota gets is a hard-working, heady guard who can complement the Wolves' top players. Also leaves them with enough cap space to go get Tyus Jones to be their new PG. He's a bit undersized, but his per36 is 14.7/4.1/7.5 with a respectable .524 eFG. He takes care of the rock and plays tenacious on-ball defense. Pair him with Hart and they've got two responsible guys holding down their backcourt at a reasonable price. They'll make sure the team's stars close, something Russell seemingly cannot make peace with.

Anyway, that's my Minnesota remake.

[membengal]

Ja Morant posted a 47-8-8 with no secondary ball-handler over 6 feet tall. His best three teammates were some degree of tossed, fouled out, or couldn't bend over to reach their sandwich. He posted 47-8-8 with virtually no help, no options, and the defense 100,000,000% keyed on stopping him from posting 47-8-8.

He's just so much fun.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I know we've got playoffs to focus on, but I'm mildly fascinated by what the Wolves do heading into next season. It seems pretty obvious they need to get away from D'Angelo Russell. If Ant and KAT have the potential to be something (and McDaniels looked awfully good too), then they need to shed the anchor. Dlo's got one year and $31M left on his contract. Problem is no one needs him. What they'll probably have to do is strap their 1st round draft pick (#19) to get a team with some cap space to take him, and there aren't many of those.

My suggestion (and, Kingspoint, I promise you will hate this idea) is they send him to Portland for Josh Hart. I think that will keep the Blazers under the cap. Also, I fully expect Dame to be dealt this summer. They do not have the cap space or assets to get the multiple players they need to transform that team back into a contender. Go get the giant bag of assets for Dame. Russell can occupy space and possibly fetch something at the deadline if he's playing well. Main thing is Portland would gain a draft pick to help in their rebuilding process and they'll have cap space again after a year.

What Minnesota gets is a hard-working, heady guard who can complement the Wolves' top players. Also leaves them with enough cap space to go get Tyus Jones to be their new PG. He's a bit undersized, but his per36 is 14.7/4.1/7.5 with a respectable .524 eFG. He takes care of the rock and plays tenacious on-ball defense. Pair him with Hart and they've got two responsible guys holding down their backcourt at a reasonable price. They'll make sure the team's stars close, something Russell seemingly cannot make peace with.

Anyway, that's my Minnesota remake.

I do not understand your Tyus Jones love.

[membengal]

Tyus Jones is awesome. His A/TO ratio has been crazy good since he entered the league - and remained awesome even with increased usage. His 3-point shooting has markedly improved from where it once was. He's got a really nasty running floater. He's one of THE main reasons Memphis stayed well afloat during Morant's injuries this year (20-2 in that span). He's going to be a massive loss when he leaves after this year. Going back home to MN makes a ton of sense.

[Betterread]

I know a lot about about Tyus Jones. He has been tremendously successful from a young age at playing winning basketball.
He is not an NBA starter, both due to physical limitations and consistency struggles. He shines in Memphis because he is a traditional point guad that quickly and consistently gets his team into their sets and plays and then executes the coach’s instructions. He gets the ball to teammates on-time and in their shooting pocket. But he is a backup because he can’t make shots consistently. He also can’t get to the rim with his limited quickness and tricks. But he is one of the best backup PGs in the game, only Vincent, MCConnnell and Jordan mclaughlin are better.

[Bourgeois Zee]

But he is one of the best backup PGs in the game, only Vincent, MCConnnell and Jordan mclaughlin are better.

Hmmm:

- Tyler Herro
- Payton Pritchard
- Jalen Brunson (or Spencer Dinwiddie, if Brunson's considered the starter)
- Jordan Poole
- Jordan Clarkson (if he counts as a PG)
- Patty Mills
- Monte Morris (if he counts as a backup)
- Derrick Rose
- Ricky Rubio (if he counts as a backup)
- Max Strus (if he counts as a PG)
- Coby White
- Victor Oladipo
- Dennis Schroder

I'd put Jones at the same echelon as Shake Milton and Delon Wright.

[membengal]

You are underselling him but that makes me happy - I hope the other nba teams do as well - so he can stay in memphis

[M2]

Tyus Jones is awesome. His A/TO ratio has been crazy good since he entered the league - and remained awesome even with increased usage. His 3-point shooting has markedly improved from where it once was. He's got a really nasty running floater. He's one of THE main reasons Memphis stayed well afloat during Morant's injuries this year (20-2 in that span). He's going to be a massive loss when he leaves after this year. Going back home to MN makes a ton of sense.

He's kind of like PG Classic. Makes good decisions, keeps everyone fed, takes care of the ball. Seems like the perfect guy for a team with feature scorers.

Checks a lot of boxes for a still relatively young PG. Add in that the free agent PG market this summer is basically Brunson and Jones, and Jones is likely to cost a lot less, and some team out there would do wise to nab him. He'd make a ton of sense in Houston.

[M2]

I know a lot about about Tyus Jones. He has been tremendously successful from a young age at playing winning basketball.
He is not an NBA starter, both due to physical limitations and consistency struggles. He shines in Memphis because he is a traditional point guad that quickly and consistently gets his team into their sets and plays and then executes the coach’s instructions. He gets the ball to teammates on-time and in their shooting pocket. But he is a backup because he can’t make shots consistently. He also can’t get to the rim with his limited quickness and tricks. But he is one of the best backup PGs in the game, only Vincent, MCConnnell and Jordan mclaughlin are better.

Would you advocate starting McLaughlin? Obviously I prefer Jones (think he has added and will continue to add shooting range), but if Minny could get off of Dlo would McLaughlin work as a starter from your perspective? If so they could focus on a more dynamic SG.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Would you advocate starting McLaughlin? Obviously I prefer Jones (think he has added and will continue to add shooting range), but if Minny could get off of Dlo would McLaughlin work as a starter from your perspective? If so they could focus on a more dynamic SG.

They need an elite defender in the backcourt. Beverley can be a pest, but at this point, he's merely solid.

(This is one reason Jones makes no sense-- he's a defensive sieve and has been his entire career.)

[M2]

They need an elite defender in the backcourt. Beverley can be a pest, but at this point, he's merely solid.

(This is one reason Jones makes no sense-- he's a defensive sieve and has been his entire career.)

Agreed about them getting a long guy on the wing. That's why I was thinking Hart. He puts in a shift. Also can handle/distribute and stretch the floor.

Jones is a lot better on D than I think you realize. He's a pest on the ball and his advanced D stats are all good.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Agreed about them getting a long guy on the wing. That's why I was thinking Hart. He puts in a shift. Also can handle/distribute and stretch the floor.

Jones is a lot better on D than I think you realize. He's a pest on the ball and his advanced D stats are all good.

Where are you getting your advanced defense stats? All I see are bad numbers and not-so-great numbers.

[M2]

Where are you getting your advanced defense stats? All I see are bad numbers and not-so-great numbers.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jonesty01.html

[Betterread]

Hmmm:

- Tyler Herro
- Payton Pritchard
- Jalen Brunson (or Spencer Dinwiddie, if Brunson's considered the starter)
- Jordan Poole
- Jordan Clarkson (if he counts as a PG)
- Patty Mills
- Monte Morris (if he counts as a backup)
- Derrick Rose
- Ricky Rubio (if he counts as a backup)
- Max Strus (if he counts as a PG)
- Coby White
- Victor Oladipo
- Dennis Schroder

I'd put Jones at the same echelon as Shake Milton and Delon Wright.
Same, but a little better, right?
Of your group, I would not call Herro, Schroeder, Oladipo, White, Strus, Rubio, Mills, Clarson, Poole and Brunson backup PGs - they all get way more minutes and are asked to do a lot more than backup PG. They are way more important and impactful to their teams.
Rose and Prichard are kind of in that category and kind of PGs, so I ageee with you on their role. And with Rose I agree he is superior, but Pritchard either sucks or cannot miss. I would much rather give Jones minutes than Pritchard.

[Betterread]

They need an elite defender in the backcourt. Beverley can be a pest, but at this point, he's merely solid.

(This is one reason Jones makes no sense-- he's a defensive sieve and has been his entire career.)

Disagree on both. Jah didn’t blow up on Minnesota and Beverly was one of the reasons why. He might not be Marcus Smart, but he consistently takes space and options away from his man.
And Tyus plays intelligent defense. He is not quick or strong enough to physically impact his man, but he always plays the right scheme in the right way. I like McLaughlin better because he gets more steals and deflections that Tyus did in the same role.

[SteelSD]

Well, watching that game was as pointless as expected. Rivers still won't sit Jordan, who threw up a -9 in only 13 minutes of floor time. That's not as bad as Danny Green's -18, but Green was his own worst enemy, laying bricks on 9 of his 10 shots. Maxey, Harden, and Harris all had pretty good games, but got virtually no help offensively and Philly ground the game away with a 1-for-10 shooting start to the fourth quarter. The only runs the Sixers went were propelled by going small (again). For some reason Shake Milton has been bolted to the bench, so rather than toss out three-guard offenses to try to penetrate through a Miami zone, Philly went far too long with two guys (Thybulle and Jordan or Bball Paul) on the floor at the same time who could both be virtually ignored.

If Embiid doesn't return for game three or returns while rendered ineffective by injury, this one's pretty much over. For the offseason, I really hope the Sixers find some replacements for a bench that is clearly too light on length, athleticism, and ballhandling.

In closing, two gigantic middle fingers to Pascal Siakam. I hope you rot in Canada for the remainder of your career.

[Betterread]

Would you advocate starting McLaughlin? Obviously I prefer Jones (think he has added and will continue to add shooting range), but if Minny could get off of Dlo would McLaughlin work as a starter from your perspective? If so they could focus on a more dynamic SG.
There has been a lot of talk about that in Minny after the late season mediocrity Dlo displayed. Finch played McLaughlin in game six at the end and benched Dlo.
I don’t know if McLaughlin is an NBA starter. We may find out if next year because it is Dlo’s last max contract year and if he continues his inconsistent play, McLaughlin would get more minutes.

[Betterread]

Looks to me like Maxey is better than Harden.

[SteelSD]

Looks to me like Maxey is better than Harden.

I don't think there's any doubt that Maxey is a more explosive offensive player than Harden right now. However, Harden is still a far better distributor.

[KoryMac5]

Phoenix has another gear in the 4th quarter...

What an idiot I was for thinking Phoenix taking on Chris Paul's contract was a bad idea.

[goreds2]

Any word up on Embiid playing tonight? (I don’t have social media etc)

[texasdave]

Any word up on Embiid playing tonight? (I don’t have social media etc)

Embiid is playing, and the Sixers are out to a 16-8 lead early on.

[Mutaman]

Embiid is playing, and the Sixers are out to a 16-8 lead early on.

hes playing!

[M2]

Jimmy Butler got no damn help tonight.

[M2]

Well, no sweeps in this round.

[SteelSD]

Alrighty then, that was a fun second half to watch. Not so much the first. Despite Miami finally catching the brick bug, the Sixers played like it was contagious for the first 24 minutes, throwing in a mess of turnovers to boot. That kept the Heat in the game and eventually resulted in a 57-all contest late in the third quarter. From there, Tyrese Maxey went nuclear while Philly tightened their defense, holding Miami to their third sub-20 point quarter in the fourth. Danny Green, who seemingly forgot how to shoot on Wednesday, rebounded from a 1-for-10 outing by hitting 7 of his 9 shots last night- all from three. It was Harris' turn to forget how to put the rock in the hole, but his 10-rebound performance was key, considering that the Heat were assaulting the offensive boards in the first half. Harden was new Harden, not old Harden. Problem is that at some point, the Sixers are going to need the previous version to show up. Way too much dribbling out the clock, loose handles, and turnovers.

Embiid was 75% of his usual self, which is still better than 98% of other NBA players. But he's obviously bothered by the mask.

Other musings...

I'm starting to believe that if Tyler Herro goes off, Miami wins. If he doesn't, they lose. Philly was uber-focused on neutralizing him, and did a fine job of it.

Kyle Lowry was terrible last night, but still flops like a champ. P.J. Tucker is the "But he's OUR Milo!" for every team he's ever played for. Max Strus seems like a guy a good team normally has filling in for an injured starter. I'm expecting Spoelstra to change something up next game.

In 110 minutes in his first playoffs, Paul Reed has a Plus/Minus of +5, largely playing with bench units. In 30 minutes, DeAndre Jordan is -31, mostly playing with starters.

My three favorite current or recent Sixers were in the arena last night. Embiid, of course. Jimmy Butler did something I don't think most folks saw. Early in the game, Butler went to contest an Embiid shot from behind. As he swatted at the ball, while missing it, he clearly intentionally stopped his arm's forward motion to avoid hitting Embiid in the head or face. I'd give him more props for that than his 33 points. Finally, J.J. Redick- who got a standing ovation in Philly last night- has cemented himself as my favorite NBA game-time announcer/color commentator. Unlike Tony Romo during NFL contests, Redick has figured out how to say incredibly smart, on-point things while melting his commentary into the flow of the game.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm starting to believe that if Tyler Herro goes off, Miami wins. If he doesn't, they lose. Philly was uber-focused on neutralizing him, and did a fine job of it.

Good point.

I suspect it's Maxey v. Herro for control of the univ-- I mean, series.

[Mutaman]

When one team shoots 34 free throws, and the other shoots 17, on their home court, something needs to be reviewed.


The FT count in the final 16:40 of the game was:

Celtics 17
Bucks o
The team with 0 has Giannis Antetokounmpo !

PS And I see Celtic fans are complaining about the officiating - Jru took 30 shots and had no free throws.

[Mutaman]

The Marquette alum have certainly showed up in the post season-Wesley, Jae, and Jimmy B.

[KoryMac5]

The curse of Kingspoint and his prediction of a Suns sweep has the Mavs tying it up today. Phoenix is still the better team but Kidd has a nice game plan of attacking CP3 when Dallas is on offense.

[M2]

The curse of Kingspoint and his prediction of a Suns sweep has the Mavs tying it up today. Phoenix is still the better team but Kidd has a nice game plan of attacking CP3 when Dallas is on offense.

He really did the Mavs a karmic solid with that prediction.

[Bourgeois Zee]

The curse of Kingspoint and his prediction of a Suns sweep has the Mavs tying it up today. Phoenix is still the better team but Kidd has a nice game plan of attacking CP3 when Dallas is on offense.

Dorian Finney-Smith and Davis Bertans were the difference. Bertans scored 12 in 13 minutes. Crazy productive. And Finney-Smith hit every big shot in the game. Phoenix had no answer for either of them. (Especially with Doncic directing traffic.)

As an aside, I've never seen a guy get called for a technical on a play where he was fouled. That Booker call was... fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gHyeJfn3l10

NBA officials have had the worst playoffs of anyone. Just absolutely brutally poor officiating across the board. As a fan of the game, it makes it nearly impossible to enjoy close games. Refs find a way to screw it up. The Bucks-Celtics game was just horrid-- a blueprint for how to lose control of a game, swallow a whistle, then blow multiple calls, all in the last two minutes. (That L2M Report was egregious.) I've already talked about the questionable 4th quarter calls at the end of the Minnesota/ Memphis series and the ridiculousness of the Cousins technical and Jokic manhandling in the Denver series. Chris Paul, usually a master of playing officials, gets two cheap calls and fouls out with a lifetime left.

There's not a series wherein the officials have been adequate, let alone good.

[M2]

Craziest thing I've seen this postseason is Davis Bertans playing defense.

[SteelSD]

Craziest thing I've seen this postseason is Davis Bertans playing defense.

Maybe along with being tired of riding the pine, he also then sneaked a peek at Duncan Robinson not being able to get off the Heat bench, and finally understood.

[M2]

Maybe along with being tired of riding the pine, he also then sneaked a peek at Duncan Robinson not being able to get off the Heat bench, and finally understood.

No one wants to get Strused.

[M2]

Jimmy Butler once again got no damn help. If this continues his rage level may rise into the realm of theoretical numbers.

The question suddenly has become whether the Heat have a chance in this series if Embiid is on the floor.

[KoryMac5]

Dorian Finney-Smith and Davis Bertans were the difference. Bertans scored 12 in 13 minutes. Crazy productive. And Finney-Smith hit every big shot in the game. Phoenix had no answer for either of them. (Especially with Doncic directing traffic.)

As an aside, I've never seen a guy get called for a technical on a play where he was fouled. That Booker call was... fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gHyeJfn3l10

NBA officials have had the worst playoffs of anyone. Just absolutely brutally poor officiating across the board. As a fan of the game, it makes it nearly impossible to enjoy close games. Refs find a way to screw it up. The Bucks-Celtics game was just horrid-- a blueprint for how to lose control of a game, swallow a whistle, then blow multiple calls, all in the last two minutes. (That L2M Report was egregious.) I've already talked about the questionable 4th quarter calls at the end of the Minnesota/ Memphis series and the ridiculousness of the Cousins technical and Jokic manhandling in the Denver series. Chris Paul, usually a master of playing officials, gets two cheap calls and fouls out with a lifetime left.

There's not a series wherein the officials have been adequate, let alone good.

Dallas's ball movement was so good during the game making the extra pass...credit to Jason Kidd who has reinvented himself this time around in Dallas. He's much calmer and a bit more patient. Dallas has really bought into the team defense comment.

Agreed 100% on the officiating so many missed calls that really effected the outcome of the game...the Nba has to do better with teaching officials proper positioning to make calls. So many refs were out of position on those foul calls.

[goreds2]

Monday, May 9, 2022

BOS
East Semifinals - Game 4, MIL leads series 2-1
@

MIL
LIVE
TNT

—————————
MEM
West Semifinals - Game 4, GS leads series 2-1
@

GS
10:00 PM
TNT

[M2]

Al Horford put on a cape tonight.

[M2]

If Memphis wins tonight, all four series will be knotted at 2-2.

[texasdave]

After watching the replay of Ja getting hurt, it's hard to figure out how got a bone bruise. In any event. his return to the series is listed as doubtful.

[Mutaman]

Al Horford put on a cape tonight.


I’ve always liked Al Horford going way back to his college days with Noah. I always wished the Bucks had drafted or traded for him. But come on, this is ridiculous- the guy is shooting 50% from three point land- not even Bird could do that . Not even Brian Winters. Not even Downtown Freddie Brown- let’s get serious here.

Bud should insist that he be given some sort of drug test.

[Mutaman]

On the same night Klay Thompson goes 0 for 7.

[goreds2]

At least Rivers took Embiid out of this blowout (loss) game.

[SteelSD]

Embiid is obviously bothered by both his thumb and a second hit to his face tonight clearly wasn't helpful. But at what point will Rivers understand that they need to post Embiid? All night, they have him sitting on the perimeter or facing up at/near the free throw line in the middle of three guys. Regardless, it's a make-or-miss league and if you can't make shots in that building, it's not going to matter, especially after having to unwillingly spot Miami the first two games of the series. Other cranky musings...

Eleven fouls on Miami while the game score remotely mattered. Whatever, officials. There honestly needs to be a housecleaning of these bozos after the season. Didn't affect the W/L outcome, but it was brutal to watch.

If George Niang (0-for-6) can't hit a three, he needs to be Duncan Robinsoned.

Philly is having serious issues offensively coming out of half and quarter breaks. That's a coaching issue. Fix it.

DJ Khaled, sit your considerable behind in your seat. If any other fan walked up to an NBA coach and touched him while a game was in progress, they'd be banned for life. If NBA players are trying to figure out why fans are more forward than ever, there's a great example of it.

The TNT announcers were brutal. Spending minutes musing that Embiid was having an off game due to being depressed about not winning MVP was one of the lamest discussions in the history of sports. The guy's out there with a torn thumb ligament, a broken eye socket, and tweaked his back early in the game; all while officials let Adebayo and Tucker elbow, slap, hold and shove the guy around without a single foul being called. But instead of an actual analysis including those points, the most comprehensive take they could come up with is "bummed out".

That's enough. I'm too testy to continue.

[dubc47834]

Embiid is obviously bothered by both his thumb and a second hit to his face tonight clearly wasn't helpful. But at what point will Rivers understand that they need to post Embiid? All night, they have him sitting on the perimeter or facing up at/near the free throw line in the middle of three guys. Regardless, it's a make-or-miss league and if you can't make shots in that building, it's not going to matter, especially after having to unwillingly spot Miami the first two games of the series. Other cranky musings...

Eleven fouls on Miami while the game score remotely mattered. Whatever, officials. There honestly needs to be a housecleaning of these bozos after the season. Didn't affect the W/L outcome, but it was brutal to watch.

If George Niang (0-for-6) can't hit a three, he needs to be Duncan Robinsoned.

Philly is having serious issues offensively coming out of half and quarter breaks. That's a coaching issue. Fix it.

DJ Khaled, sit your considerable behind in your seat. If any other fan walked up to an NBA coach and touched him while a game was in progress, they'd be banned for life. If NBA players are trying to figure out why fans are more forward than ever, there's a great example of it.

The TNT announcers were brutal. Spending minutes musing that Embiid was having an off game due to being depressed about not winning MVP was one of the lamest discussions in the history of sports. The guy's out there with a torn thumb ligament, a broken eye socket, and tweaked his back early in the game; all while officials let Adebayo and Tucker elbow, slap, hold and shove the guy around without a single foul being called. But instead of an actual analysis including those points, the most comprehensive take they could come up with is "bummed out".

That's enough. I'm too testy to continue.

It didn't bother him too much in the previous game, not as far as his production. He was clearly disappointed he didn't get MVP. He wasn't talking with people pre-game it sounds like. I love Joel and his game, but this clearly bothered him.

[SteelSD]

It didn't bother him too much in the previous game, not as far as his production. He was clearly disappointed he didn't get MVP. He wasn't talking with people pre-game it sounds like. I love Joel and his game, but this clearly bothered him.

I would hope he'd be bothered by it. But Embiid is the guy who gets bothered by something and takes it out on the other team. He's never moped around, certainly not in a playoff game, and most definitely not with what's at stake. And, although I didn't know it would turn into an actual story...

https://www.libertyballers.com/2022/5/11/23066771/sorry-tnt-joel-embiid-wasnt-distracted-by-losing-out-on-nba-mvp-nikola-jokic-philadelphia-76ers

It's like I have ESPN or something!

[M2]

Milwaukee is tough as hell and put Jrue Holiday's face on a bill, because he's money.

[Mutaman]

As DeMar DeRozen said on several occasions this year_"They're the defending champs for a reason".

[BuckeyeRed27]

Milwaukee is tough as hell and put Jrue Holiday's face on a bill, because he's money.

He drank Smarts milkshake.

[KoryMac5]

Memphis with a 3rd quarter for the ages...they dominated GS on the glass as well. Nice effort with Ja Morant sidelined.

[klw]

Fitting that Boston blew a big lead in the 4th. It was their undoing the first half of the season. It seemed like they were finally past it. It most likely just tanked their season.

[membengal]

Zach Kleiman, Memphis GM (age 33) deservedly named Exec of the Year.

Wish we could find the baseball version of him...Memphis is a small market and more than finding a way to compete and build...

[Mutaman]

Fitting that Boston blew a big lead in the 4th. It was their undoing the first half of the season. It seemed like they were finally past it. It most likely just tanked their season.


Still a long way to go.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Jimmy Butler is made for the playoffs.

[SteelSD]

Sixers, trailing by one point, come out of the halftime break and put up four points in half a quarter. That was ballgame. Miami played well enough to win and poorly enough to lose, but the Sixers simply couldn't capitalize by hitting anything tonight, which made the slanted officiating (7 free throws, really? Again?) barely worth mentioning. Tobias Harris disappeared until it didn't matter, James Harden didn't show up, Danny Green on crutches. The number of bad, really really bad turnovers was unacceptable as was the continuation of exceptionally poor starts to quarters. Rivers can go now. Please. His post-third quarter comments were idiotic- blaming the defense, which held Miami to 99 points and no quarter above 28, rather than an invisible offensive game plan. Just staggeringly stupid.

I'm sure I'll have comments about what must an inevitable offseason shake-up at some point, but it's crystal clear that they cannot simply run this back.

Oh, and will someone please tell Hubie Brown to retire? Yeesh. If it weren't for the Rangers color commentator last night, who literally didn't know what was going on, I'd consider Brown the worst announcer in sports.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm sure I'll have comments about what must an inevitable offseason shake-up at some point, but it's crystal clear that they cannot simply run this back.


Maxey's good enough now, IMO, to be their third star. Can he improve enough to be a #2 guy?

Is Harden worth the max he's going to demand? Should Philadelphia pay it?

[SteelSD]

Maxey's good enough now, IMO, to be their third star. Can he improve enough to be a #2 guy?

Is Harden worth the max he's going to demand? Should Philadelphia pay it?

Maxey? No. He's a great change-of-pace, and can just explode at times, but he's not a Bradley Beal/Zach LaVine.

And no for the Harden question. Not if this is the real version of him going forward. If it is, he's played himself out of a max extension anywhere. His best bet for a payday would be to sign his extension for next year, come into the season fully healthy and use it as a prove-it season. The Sixers best move would probably be to move on if he doesn't sign, deal Harris, and look for a sign-and-trade opportunity for either of the two guys I just mentioned. I'm too tired right now to check on cap/contract specifics right now, but I'll take a gander at the possibilities sometime soon I'm sure.

[klw]

Still a long way to go.

I hope I am wrong but the C's are done.

[M2]

I hope I am wrong but the C's are done.

With that series any scenario you want to lay out, I'll believe that could happen. I expect the Celtics at the very least are going to be a tough out. Because I'm kind of looking at this series as the de facto NBA Finals.

[Bourgeois Zee]

With that series any scenario you want to lay out, I'll believe that could happen. I expect the Celtics at the very least are going to be a tough out. Because I'm kind of looking at this series as the de facto NBA Finals.

I think the Celtics are tough, but they're not any tougher than the Heat, the Suns, or the Warriors.

[M2]

I think the Celtics are tough, but they're not any tougher than the Heat, the Suns, or the Warriors.

I don't buy the Heat. They could win the title and I'll be like "nope, still don't see it."

[klw]

C's up 14 just missed 4 straight 3 pointers. lead down to 9. They will lose.

[M2]

C's up 14 just missed 4 straight 3 pointers. lead down to 9. They will lose.

They pulled it together. This series must go seven games.

[Betterread]

I think the Celtics are tough, but they're not any tougher than the Heat, the Suns, or the Warriors.
Suns, Warriors and Bucks seem to be cruising. I have the feeling they all have another gear. One of them will be champion, the other two will regret a lack of full engagement.
Boston, Dallas and Miami are all playing hard and playing great. If they lose, they should have no regrets

[M2]

Warriors head to the WCF. They let the Ja-less Grizzlies linger way too long. Seems like Golden State did not enjoy the way the Grizz got into them physically, and there is nothing but physical teams left in the playoffs.

[Mutaman]

Pretty incredible game by Tatum. What are you going to do?

[klw]

C's up 14 just missed 4 straight 3 pointers. lead down to 9. They will lose.

I'm glad to wake up and see that I was wrong. (I have been on quite the wrong prediction roll the past couple of weeks)

[Bourgeois Zee]

I don't buy the Heat. They could win the title and I'll be like "nope, still don't see it."

The Heat are built, IMO, for playoff basketball.

The value of bucket-getters is magnified when everyone plays hard defensively. Miami has, arguably, the second-best player left in the playoffs and a unique talent most teams can't match. Butler might be the best bucket-getter in the playoffs. That's a bold statement, I know-- but he has a fairly long history of elevating his game when games matter.

They also have an elite defense with a DPoY in the middle who can legitimately wreck entire possessions by himself. Adebayo is Green without the crazy or the kick-people-in-the-balls "jumper". That defense can (and does) switch one through five. Among their rotation players, only Duncan Robinson has to be hidden. Everyone else locks in with relish.

And Robinson, for his defensive flaws, is an elite shooter from deep. Strus, Vincent, and Martin were above average to elite regular-season three-point shooters. Tucker, Robinson, and Strus have been really, really good in the playoffs.

Bwyond that, Herro, Oladipo, and Lowry are one-on-one guys that can be depended on to make a play behind Butler.

I'm not sure they match up well with Milwaukee. (Who does?) Golden State also looks like it'd be tough sledding in the finals. Against everyone else, I think they match up really well.

That possible Phoenix/ Miami series would be a blast:
Lowry/ Oladipo v. Paul
Herro v. Booker
Butler v. Bridges/ Johnson
Tucker v. Crowder (!)
Adebayo v. Ayton (!!)

There's not a matchup there that isn't fascinating.

If you don't believe they're for real, it all comes down to who they've beaten. So far, though,Miami manhandled the Hawks in five and beat the most talented team in the East in six. They're the top seed from the East. At some point, you have to put some respect on that name.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Man, I didn't realize how well Memphis is set up for future success.

Morant is almost certainly going to be controlled for the foreseeable future. Desmond Bane is a legitimate second ball handler with elite shooting skills and solid defense. Ziaire Williams looks like he's going to be a solid starter-- and perhaps more. Jaren Jackson is an elite defender who's got legitimate offensive upside. Brandon Clarke is an analytics god in short minutes.

More, they have some serious depth. DeAnthony Melton needs more clock, not less. (And with Dillon Brooks likely to leave, it's there for the taking.) Clarke is a luxury coming off the bench. John Konchar has some really interesting numbers and could do with more experience. Even Slow Mo Kyle Anderson has shown some interesting skills. Steven Adams is still there, blocking shots, playing good defense, and taking up space too.

They've got $20M to spend, 14 players under contract, and two (22 and 29) first round draft picks (not to mention pick #47, a rather valuable pick-and-stash spot for international guys they might like).

I'm guessing they'll shop Dillon Brooks, perhaps for a future pick or another less heralded wing to pair with Williams.

Adding Brooks to the two first rounders (and perhaps the second rounder) could well get them a seat at a very expensive table. I could see Washington interested in that package for Beal, for example. They could add a future unprotected first to the mix too, if push came to shove.

They could also use Brooks to nab a restricted free agent via sign-and-trade. Or perhaps just make a relatively smart trade for a larger contract. (As they can afford it.)

They might also package the two firsts to move up in the draft to grab a better fit for their second wing-- or perhaps just a BPA. (Think the Spurs might be interested in two picks for #9? I think they might.)

They have a bunch of options available to them. That in itself is enviable.

[SteelSD]

The Heat are built, IMO, for playoff basketball.

The value of bucket-getters is magnified when everyone plays hard defensively. Miami has, arguably, the second-best player left in the playoffs and a unique talent most teams can't match. Butler might be the best bucket-getter in the playoffs. That's a bold statement, I know-- but he has a fairly long history of elevating his game when games matter.

They also have an elite defense with a DPoY in the middle who can legitimately wreck entire possessions by himself. Adebayo is Green without the crazy or the kick-people-in-the-balls "jumper". That defense can (and does) switch one through five. Among their rotation players, only Duncan Robinson has to be hidden. Everyone else locks in with relish.

And Robinson, for his defensive flaws, is an elite shooter from deep. Strus, Vincent, and Martin were above average to elite regular-season three-point shooters. Tucker, Robinson, and Strus have been really, really good in the playoffs.

Bwyond that, Herro, Oladipo, and Lowry are one-on-one guys that can be depended on to make a play behind Butler.

I'm not sure they match up well with Milwaukee. (Who does?) Golden State also looks like it'd be tough sledding in the finals. Against everyone else, I think they match up really well.

That possible Phoenix/ Miami series would be a blast:
Lowry/ Oladipo v. Paul
Herro v. Booker
Butler v. Bridges/ Johnson
Tucker v. Crowder (!)
Adebayo v. Ayton (!!)

There's not a matchup there that isn't fascinating.

If you don't believe they're for real, it all comes down to who they've beaten. So far, though,Miami manhandled the Hawks in five and beat the most talented team in the East in six. They're the top seed from the East. At some point, you have to put some respect on that name.

Jimmy Butler, with all due respect to him, is probably the worst leading man for any team left in the playoffs. Giannis, Doncic, Steph Curry, Jason Tatum, and <god I hate him> Devin Booker are all superior players. Who the Heat have played isn't actually a point in their favor given that Atlanta was a hot mess all season, and Philly represented a 2nd round injury-driven bye for Miami. The Heat really haven't been tested in any meaningful way in the playoffs yet.

Miami's strength is depth, but playoff rotations don't really require that, which is why Duncan Robinson is completely out of the rotation. They can fill in pieces if injury hits a perimeter player, like for Lowry (who stinks) last round, or someone like Adebayo (who you're dramatically overrating) if he falls ill, but that's about it.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Jimmy Butler, with all due respect to him, is probably the worst leading man for any team left in the playoffs. Giannis, Doncic, Steph Curry, Jason Tatum, and <god I hate him> Devin Booker are all superior players. Who the Heat have played isn't actually a point in their favor given that Atlanta was a hot mess all season, and Philly represented a 2nd round injury-driven bye for Miami. The Heat really haven't been tested in any meaningful way in the playoffs yet.

Miami's strength is depth, but playoff rotations don't really require that, which is why Duncan Robinson is completely out of the rotation. They can fill in pieces if injury hits a perimeter player, like for Lowry (who stinks) last round, or someone like Adebayo (who you're dramatically overrating) if he falls ill, but that's about it.

We disagree on pretty much all of this.

Butler's shown he's an alpha in the playoffs. You undervalue him-- which is odd, considering how much he dominated that series against the Sixers.

What we most disagree on is Miami's strength. They have depth, of course, but that's not their playoff strength. It's not even in the top three:

1. Miami plays exceptional team defense one through five. You can't pick and roll to choose their weak sister defender because they don't play weak sister defenders more than mop-up minutes. Strus, Lowry (when healthy), Martin, and Oladipo are very good team defenders when enagaged, and they're always engaged in the playoffs. Butler, Tucker, and Adebayo are premium playoff defenders. Even Tyler Herro has turned himself into a solid defender. They're the only team in the playoffs to allow less than 100 ppg to their opponents. They rank second in field goal percentage and third in 3-point field goal percentage, and they played Philadelphia (with Harden, Harris, and Maxey) and Atlanta (Trae Young and a whole host of shooters).

2. They don't beat themselves. Just over 12 TO per game rank fourth in the playoffs. They force opponents into more than 15 TOs per game. In the playoffs, it comes down to small things, and Miami just does the small things at an elite level. Butler, Tucker, Adebayo, and Lowry have all been praised for those particular skills. Spo's been lauded for years because he teaches them so well. Indeed, that's pretty much Miami's whole ethos.

3. They're good enough offensively-- and can create mismatches nearly everywhere. Butler's so strong that he often is the spoke around which the team plays, posting opposing guards or forwards in the paint for relatively easy buckets. Everyone else can handle well enough to make two dribbles and a pass, shot, or pivot. Strus can muscle PGs. Herro does too (and outruns/ outworks wings). Adebayo is a walking mismatch. Tucker's a fire hydrant who can shoot in the corners. That all works out to a +9.6 differential between offense and defense, which more than doubles Boston's 4.5 second place.

We also disagree on the relative strength of Philadelphia and Atlanta as compared to other teams, injuries included.

We'll see, of course. Miami may well lay a playoff egg in the next round. But so far, they've more than proven they're for real.

[M2]

Jimmy Butler, with all due respect to him, is probably the worst leading man for any team left in the playoffs. Giannis, Doncic, Steph Curry, Jason Tatum, and <god I hate him> Devin Booker are all superior players. Who the Heat have played isn't actually a point in their favor given that Atlanta was a hot mess all season, and Philly represented a 2nd round injury-driven bye for Miami. The Heat really haven't been tested in any meaningful way in the playoffs yet.

Miami's strength is depth, but playoff rotations don't really require that, which is why Duncan Robinson is completely out of the rotation. They can fill in pieces if injury hits a perimeter player, like for Lowry (who stinks) last round, or someone like Adebayo (who you're dramatically overrating) if he falls ill, but that's about it.

That's generally my take. I think the Heat are going to feel like light work for whoever emerges from the Celtics-Bucks series.

[membengal]

Man, I didn't realize how well Memphis is set up for future success.

Morant is almost certainly going to be controlled for the foreseeable future. Desmond Bane is a legitimate second ball handler with elite shooting skills and solid defense. Ziaire Williams looks like he's going to be a solid starter-- and perhaps more. Jaren Jackson is an elite defender who's got legitimate offensive upside. Brandon Clarke is an analytics god in short minutes.

More, they have some serious depth. DeAnthony Melton needs more clock, not less. (And with Dillon Brooks likely to leave, it's there for the taking.) Clarke is a luxury coming off the bench. John Konchar has some really interesting numbers and could do with more experience. Even Slow Mo Kyle Anderson has shown some interesting skills. Steven Adams is still there, blocking shots, playing good defense, and taking up space too.

They've got $20M to spend, 14 players under contract, and two (22 and 29) first round draft picks (not to mention pick #47, a rather valuable pick-and-stash spot for international guys they might like).

I'm guessing they'll shop Dillon Brooks, perhaps for a future pick or another less heralded wing to pair with Williams.

Adding Brooks to the two first rounders (and perhaps the second rounder) could well get them a seat at a very expensive table. I could see Washington interested in that package for Beal, for example. They could add a future unprotected first to the mix too, if push came to shove.

They could also use Brooks to nab a restricted free agent via sign-and-trade. Or perhaps just make a relatively smart trade for a larger contract. (As they can afford it.)

They might also package the two firsts to move up in the draft to grab a better fit for their second wing-- or perhaps just a BPA. (Think the Spurs might be interested in two picks for #9? I think they might.)

They have a bunch of options available to them. That in itself is enviable.

this is all accurate. Giddy times for Grizzlies fans.

[KoryMac5]

Phoenix getting all the way through the West no longer seems a given...

Taken 7 games by the Mavs and IF they get through that series they have Steph Curry waiting for them...

[SteelSD]

We disagree on pretty much all of this.

Butler's shown he's an alpha in the playoffs. You undervalue him-- which is odd, considering how much he dominated that series against the Sixers.

You seem to be forgetting that I'm well versed in the Jimmy Butler experience for a playoff run. Butler's primary value is defensive. Offensively, he's historically a low-efficiency scorer who too often disappears offensively, like he did in last year's first round against Milwaukee. While Butler may have strung together two very good playoff series this year, I'm not undervaluing him. I know who he is and, while I agree with him that it was stupid for the Sixers to wrap up Tobias Harris instead of Butler, any of the teams he'll face going forward will have better front men.


What we most disagree on is Miami's strength. They have depth, of course, but that's not their playoff strength. It's not even in the top three:

1. Miami plays exceptional team defense one through five. You can't pick and roll to choose their weak sister defender because they don't play weak sister defenders more than mop-up minutes. Strus, Lowry (when healthy), Martin, and Oladipo are very good team defenders when enagaged, and they're always engaged in the playoffs. Butler, Tucker, and Adebayo are premium playoff defenders. Even Tyler Herro has turned himself into a solid defender. They're the only team in the playoffs to allow less than 100 ppg to their opponents. They rank second in field goal percentage and third in 3-point field goal percentage, and they played Philadelphia (with Harden, Harris, and Maxey) and Atlanta (Trae Young and a whole host of shooters).

If Miami played the kind of top-notch match-up defense you're talking about, they wouldn't have to constantly go zone. Tucker can't really defend on the perimeter anymore. Butler and, to an extent, Adebayo are very good defensively. Strus, Lowry (who sucks), Vincent, and Oladipo need constant help (which Miami is good at, sure). Caleb Martin mostly just plays cards with Duncan Robinson on the bench. Herro is a defensive sieve.


2. They don't beat themselves. Just over 12 TO per game rank fourth in the playoffs. They force opponents into more than 15 TOs per game. In the playoffs, it comes down to small things, and Miami just does the small things at an elite level. Butler, Tucker, Adebayo, and Lowry have all been praised for those particular skills. Spo's been lauded for years because he teaches them so well. Indeed, that's pretty much Miami's whole ethos.

Miami does have a good coach. That's true.


3. They're good enough offensively-- and can create mismatches nearly everywhere. Butler's so strong that he often is the spoke around which the team plays, posting opposing guards or forwards in the paint for relatively easy buckets. Everyone else can handle well enough to make two dribbles and a pass, shot, or pivot. Strus can muscle PGs. Herro does too (and outruns/ outworks wings). Adebayo is a walking mismatch. Tucker's a fire hydrant who can shoot in the corners. That all works out to a +9.6 differential between offense and defense, which more than doubles Boston's 4.5 second place.

They're actually not all that good offensively. Bam Adebayo has no appreciable offensive game. He's Clint Capella who ate some sandwiches, surviving on pick-and-roll dunks and clean-up on the offensive glass. No one comes into a series gameplanning on how to keep Adebayo from hurting them offensively beyond, "Guys, box out." Strus doesn't post anyone up. Not sure where you're going there. Gabe Vincent is filler. Herro is really good offensively, but if he's not firing on all cylinders, that team struggles to put up points.


We also disagree on the relative strength of Philadelphia and Atlanta as compared to other teams, injuries included.

We'll see, of course. Miami may well lay a playoff egg in the next round. But so far, they've more than proven they're for real.

I think your take on Philly's "relative strength" smells a lot like hyperbole to support your take, particularly given your earlier stance on how scary the Brooklyn Nets would be for the entire Eastern Conference. I think you know that missing Embiid for two games, and having him at maybe 50% for the other four would be a serious problem for any team. Atlanta limped in to the playoffs after having to play their way in. These were not exceptionally strong tests for Miami.

That +9.6 playoff point diff actually speaks to the relative weakness of their opponents thus far, not Miami's strength. They've absolutely had the easiest path of any team left standing, for a couple reasons.

[Bourgeois Zee]

You seem to be forgetting that I'm well versed in the Jimmy Butler experience for a playoff run. Butler's primary value is defensive. Offensively, he's historically a low-efficiency scorer who too often disappears offensively, like he did in last year's first round against Milwaukee. While Butler may have strung together two very good playoff series this year, I'm not undervaluing him. I know who he is and, while I agree with him that it was stupid for the Sixers to wrap up Tobias Harris instead of Butler, any of the teams he'll face going forward will have better front men.

I guess we'll find out shortly.

[SteelSD]

I guess we'll find out shortly.

Find out what? We're one year removed from this version of playoff Jimmy:

18317

I like Jimmy Butler, but I don't really think we need more time to figure out who the he is. The Butler you're thinking of is an almost romanticised version of a player at his very best ever game. But he's also just about equally capable of, well...that. He wilted into the background in the 2017-18 playoffs against Houston too. And while folks mostly remember the Kawhi Leonard bounce-athon to end the Sixers' season the next year, Sixers fans also recall Butler throwing up brick after agonizing brick in that game. Against either Boston or Milwaukee next round the Heat are likley doomed to a similar, albeit later, exit if any of that happens again.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Find out what? We're one year removed from this version of playoff Jimmy:

And we're two years removed from Butler willing his team to the championship series.

We're going to find out relatively soon whether the Heat are indeed the pushovers you seem to think they are or whether they can compete with either Boston or Milwaukee.

I think they'll be a tough out. You don't.

I think Butler's a really, really good playoff basketball player. You think he's... fine. Capable. Adequate.

We'll find out who's right in the next series.

[Mutaman]

Big fan of jimmy going back a long way, but the key to the Heat is that Riley fellow.

[texasdave]

I have a hard time accepting that a team that had the best Conference record, and has made it to the Conference finals has little or no shot. In any event, it would be nice to see a Game 7.

[SteelSD]

And we're two years removed from Butler willing his team to the championship series.

We're going to find out relatively soon whether the Heat are indeed the pushovers you seem to think they are or whether they can compete with either Boston or Milwaukee.

I think they'll be a tough out. You don't.

I think Butler's a really, really good playoff basketball player. You think he's... fine. Capable. Adequate.

We'll find out who's right in the next series.

Nah, I don't think I'm going to let you get away with that. I've never considered Miami a "pushover". They're a good team. They'll fight hard against whichever team they play next. They'll be competitive. But they'll probably lose. Could they win? Yeah. If they play the Bucks, maybe Khris Middleton will still be hurt. If it's the Celtics, maybe a few more of the 20+ shots Tatum and Brown put up per game won't fall.

All I've been doing is responding to your Brooklyn-esque hot take(s), as now applied to the Miami Heat, which includes things like Butler being better than players like Steph Curry or Jayson Tatum, Luka Doncic, etc. He's not. Or that the Heat have somehow faced a gauntlet of healthy, incredibly tough teams so far this postseason. They haven't. Now you're saying that Butler "willed" the Heat to the NBA Finals two years ago? He didn't. He did have a good finals though, that is until he disappeared in Game 6 (again), when the Heat were closed out.

I will be surprised if Miami makes it past their next opponent. But I don't expect them to get rolled, so how about you stop with that characterization.

[SteelSD]

Big fan of jimmy going back a long way, but the key to the Heat is that Riley fellow.

I envy Miami's scouting and player development program. Other than Maxey, just about every mid-first and second rounder the Sixers either stalls or, if they end up being decent, it's followed by a regression (see, Korkmaz, Milton, etc.). Nevermind undrafted free agents, where the Heat make a killing. I'll be interested, though, to see how Kendrick Nunn does for whomever he plays for next season just to see if the development sticks.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Nah, I don't think I'm going to let you get away with that...

Sigh.

I mean, really?

You want to dig in on the "hot takes"?

I was wrong about Brooklyn. Simmons not playing hurt them. A lot. You ignore that in your desire to punish me for not being a Sixer fan.

But you definitely don't ignore the narrative of Philadelphia being injured.

You're not consistent in your logic here, but that's okay. You're a massive fan. That's what fans do.

Just don't come for me with the "hot takes" 'cause you are the king of them.

(Well, Kingspoint is the king. You're the prince.)

[KoryMac5]

Butler is a great player that turns into an average one when he falls in love with his jumper...when he is driving to the basket he is one of the best in the business at willing his way to the bucket.

Interesting news out of Charlotte Mike D'Antoni has the edge on their coaching position...Ball as to be excited about that.

[RedTeamGo!]

I view Butler as a 2nd tier star. Trying to think of a good comp.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I view Butler as a 2nd tier star. Trying to think of a good comp.

During the regular season? Sure.

During the playoffs?

He often takes his game up a notch.

(This is not to say he's perfect. That strawman doesn't need to be visited anymore. Great players have poor playoffs.)

This playoffs, through two series, he's been the best player on the floor in both.

[SteelSD]

Sigh.

I mean, really?

You want to dig in on the "hot takes"?

I was wrong about Brooklyn. Simmons not playing hurt them. A lot. You ignore that in your desire to punish me for not being a Sixer fan.

But you definitely don't ignore the narrative of Philadelphia being injured.

You're not consistent in your logic here, but that's okay. You're a massive fan. That's what fans do.

Just don't come for me with the "hot takes" 'cause you are the king of them.

(Well, Kingspoint is the king. You're the prince.)

You were warned about the things that could go wrong for Brooklyn. For months, you wanted to Sixers to trade Ben Simmons, with a side of Maxey, for garbage. Now you think he was the key for the Nets season? Embiid missed two games in the Miami series and has a torn thumb ligament and a broken eye socket. You want a pass on Brooklyn's first round drubbing due to Simmons being out, but treat Embiid's missed games and injury-diminished performance as a non-factor in your effort to enhance the quality of the Heat's series win. To what end? I don't know.

The hot takes are decidedly yours, as are the narratives, and the fractured logic. Case in point- Jimmy Butler is not a better player than the best players for the other remaining teams, two of whom have won MVPs and championships, with the rest being truly elite talents. Butler hasn't demonstrated a history of being the kind of consistent, elite playoff warrior you're framing. I think you know that you wouldn't choose Butler over Giannis, Doncic, Steph Curry, Tatum, or Booker. Not in the regular season, and not in the playoffs. Heck, you might have to think really hard if you have the sixth pick because Chris Paul and Jaylen Brown would still be on the board.

I don't care that you're not a Sixers fan. But as I've said before, I think it would be good for you to find a team to identify with. I honestly believe it would give you a better perspective on the highs, lows, and everything in the middle for an NBA season.

[Bourgeois Zee]

You were warned about the things that could go wrong for Brooklyn.

Yep. I've already admitted I was wrong about Brooklyn.

I disagree with your opinion on Butler. As I've said multiple times now, I believe he's as good a playoff player as just about anyone. I also said it was arguable. We'll find out if I'm wrong when the Heat play either Boston or Milwaukee. I think he might carry that team further than you do.

And for the record, I'm absolutely taking Butler over Booker, Doncic, Paul, and Brown. Easily. While not quite as good as they are offensively, he's a defensive nightmare who guards one through five. I'd also take him over Tatum, largely because Tatum hasn't shown the history Butler has. Giannis, fine. Curry, maybe.

Arguable.

[KoryMac5]

Yep. I've already admitted I was wrong about Brooklyn.

I disagree with your opinion on Butler. As I've said multiple times now, I believe he's as good a playoff player as just about anyone. I also said it was arguable. We'll find out if I'm wrong when the Heat play either Boston or Milwaukee. I think he might carry that team further than you do.

And for the record, I'm absolutely taking Butler over Booker, Doncic, Paul, and Brown. Easily. While not quite as good as they are offensively, he's a defensive nightmare who guards one through five. I'd also take him over Tatum, largely because Tatum hasn't shown the history Butler has. Giannis, fine. Curry, maybe.

Arguable.

Wow this is quite the take somewhere Kingspoint is smiling…

[SteelSD]

Yep. I've already admitted I was wrong about Brooklyn.

I disagree with your opinion on Butler. As I've said multiple times now, I believe he's as good a playoff player as just about anyone. I also said it was arguable. We'll find out if I'm wrong when the Heat play either Boston or Milwaukee. I think he might carry that team further than you do.

And for the record, I'm absolutely taking Butler over Booker, Doncic, Paul, and Brown. Easily. While not quite as good as they are offensively, he's a defensive nightmare who guards one through five. I'd also take him over Tatum, largely because Tatum hasn't shown the history Butler has. Giannis, fine. Curry, maybe.

Arguable.

You do realize that since his career began, Jayson Tatum has played in more playoff games than Butler has, right? If the Celtics win today, it'll be Tatum's third conference championship appearance. Butler will be going to his second.

And, as you've cited "history", you do understand that Steph Curry has multiple championship rings and two MVP trophys versus none for Butler?

But the latter is a "maybe".

Like I said, "hot take".

[Bourgeois Zee]

You do realize that since his career began, Jayson Tatum has played in more playoff games than Butler has, right? If the Celtics win today, it'll be Tatum's third conference championship appearance. Butler will be going to his second.

And, as you've cited "history", you do understand that Steph Curry has multiple championship rings and two MVP trophys versus none for Butler?

But the latter is a "maybe".

Like I said, "hot take".

SI agrees (https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/13/jimmy-butler-miami-heat-nba-playoffs)... with me.

So does the Miami Herald's Anthony Chiang (https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article261329147.html). (Well, not really. Chiang says advanced metrics state that Butler has been the best player in these playoffs.)

(Not that that proves my take isn't "hot." Just that it's defensible.)

[M2]

My (medium) hot take is the Celtics and Bucks are playing the de facto NBA Final at the moment. Haven't seen any other teams playing anywhere near this level.

Also, the Celtics not dodging the Nets while the Bucks picked a Bulls matchup has given Boston homecourt for this game which could be crucial.

[M2]

Find someone who loves you as much as basketball color commentators love the extra pass.

[SteelSD]

SI agrees (https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/13/jimmy-butler-miami-heat-nba-playoffs)... with me.

So does the Miami Herald's Anthony Chiang (https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nba/miami-heat/article261329147.html). (Well, not really. Chiang says advanced metrics state that Butler has been the best player in these playoffs.)

(Not that that proves my take isn't "hot." Just that it's defensible.)

Yeah, you've got support for the idea that a player is playing well when he's playing well. I'll third that- Butler has strung together two very good playoff series this year. Of course, I said the exact same thing in post number 172 in this very thread.

But that doesn't mean that said performance is sustainable, or that it instantly makes him a better player than, even "arguably", everyone else not named Giannis.

You know that small sample size performance, particularly outlier-level, isn't all that informative of future performance or true talent level.

[SteelSD]

My (medium) hot take is the Celtics and Bucks are playing the de facto NBA Final at the moment. Haven't seen any other teams playing anywhere near this level.

Also, the Celtics not dodging the Nets while the Bucks picked a Bulls matchup has given Boston homecourt for this game which could be crucial.

For the last three quarters, Boston has basically said, "Defense. Y'all take notes."

[Bourgeois Zee]

Yeah, you've got support for the idea that a player is playing well when he's playing well. I'll third that- Butler has strung together two very good playoff series this year. Of course, I said the exact same thing in post number 172 in this very thread.

But that doesn't mean that said performance is sustainable, or that it instantly makes him a better player than, even "arguably", everyone else not named Giannis.

You know that small sample size performance, particularly outlier-level, isn't all that informative of future performance or true talent level.

The playoffs are a small sample.

And stop with the whole "better player" strawman" stuff.

I said Butler was a great playoff basketball player.

Being a great playoff basketball player requires a different skill set than being a great basketball player in the regular season. It requires someone who doesn't turn the ball over, who plays great defense, and can get buckets when defenses are engaged and hyper focused. Butler has shown he can do that in the past. He's certainly doing it so far this post-season.

[M2]

I'll buy Jimmy Butler as a guy who takes it up a notch in the playoffs. I think there's a host of teams (including Philly and Minnesota and Chicago) that probably would love him on their side. When it becomes a game of will and somebody's got to make a difference, that guy shows up.

That said, I think he just drew a matchup with a team that can slap the clamps on him.

[M2]

Quick note on the Bucks, huge respect for that team. Giannis was still picking guys up full court when they were down 20 with less than four minutes to play. That's character. Also, not having Khris Middleton played a huge role in this series. He was the sniper they needed. I expect Milwaukee will strengthen its supporting cast next season and be a leading contender for the 2023 title. Would not write them off for a sign-and-trade move for a higher profile FA.

[klw]

Still a long way to go.

You were right, I am glad I was wrong.

[SteelSD]

The playoffs are a small sample.

And stop with the whole "better player" strawman" stuff.

I said Butler was a great playoff basketball player.

Being a great playoff basketball player requires a different skill set than being a great basketball player in the regular season. It requires someone who doesn't turn the ball over, who plays great defense, and can get buckets when defenses are engaged and hyper focused. Butler has shown he can do that in the past. He's certainly doing it so far this post-season.

No, it actually doesn't require a different skill set. Great players are great players. You might as well be chasing the "clutch" myth.

All that's happened is that you've watched a guy play some of his best basketball over a couple playoff series and now think that his peak is who he really is.

[Mutaman]

If you wanna win basketball games you have to put the ball in the basket. Except for the fourth period of game five, the Bucks shooting was historically atrocious during the entire playoffs. (4 for 33 from 3 land today. 4 for 33!).

On the other hand Horford, Tatum and Grant Williams (Grant Williams?) had games where they just couldn’t miss. It’s pretty incredible that the Bucks took this to seven games and I guess that’s a tribute to Giannis and Holliday.

[Bourgeois Zee]

That said, I think he just drew a matchup with a team that can slap the clamps on him.

It'll be interesting to see how they match up.

In 2020, Herro had his coming out party against the Celtics, and Adebayo had a block for the ages.

[Bourgeois Zee]

No, it actually doesn't require a different skill set. Great players are great players. You might as well be chasing the "clutch" myth.

All that's happened is that you've watched a guy play some of his best basketball over a couple playoff series and now think that his peak is who he really is.

Ah. There's the rub.

You disagree that Butler takes it up a notch in the playoffs and is a better player as a result. You disagree that one-on-one go-get-a-bucket-now is more advantageous and imperative to winning in the playoffs than in the regular season. You disagree that defenses are more keyed in and games are officiated differently, meaning players have to be tougher and able to handle contact. You disagree that possessions are at a premium because the pace is slower, so it's vital to control the basketball either via offensive rebounds or not turning the ball over.

That, to me, is a far hotter take than mine.

The rest of your post is just trying to move my goalposts.

[Kingspoint]

No, it actually doesn't require a different skill set. Great players are great players. You might as well be chasing the "clutch" myth.

All that's happened is that you've watched a guy play some of his best basketball over a couple playoff series and now think that his peak is who he really is.

One of the worst posts I've ever seen, and that says a lot for you, Steel.

[SteelSD]

Ah. There's the rub.

You disagree that Butler takes it up a notch in the playoffs and is a better player as a result.

That, to me, is a far hotter take than mine.

The rest of your post is just trying to move my goalposts.

He doesn't. I'd like to think that you're just being fooled by variances inherent to small sample sizes, but I'm beginning to suspect that you're intentionally misrepresenting them as truth. Over time, players are who they are.

Here's Butler's career per-36 stats in the postseason versus the regular season:

Postseason: 18.8 PP36, 5.8 Rebounds, 4.2 Assists/1.8 Turnovers, .455 FG%/.348 3pt FG%

Regular Season: 19.2 PP36, 5.8 Rebounds, 4.5 Assists/1.8 Turnovers, .460 FG%/.321 3pt FG%

He's the same player in the postseason that he is in the regular season. Just for fun, here are a few more for you, without names- all have played more than 100 playoff games:

Player 1

Playoffs: 28.8 PP36, 5.5 Rebounds, 4.9 Assists/2.6 Turnovers, .487 FG%/.332 3-point FG%

Regular Season: 28.3 PP36, 5.9 Rebounds, 4.9 Assists/2.6 Turnovers, .497 FG%/.327 3-point FG%

Player 2

Playoffs: 24.9 PP36 ,7.8 Rebounds ,6.8 Assists/3.2 Turnovers, .495 FG%/.337 3-point FG%

Regular Season: 25.6 PP36, 7.0 Rebounds, 6.9 Assists/3.3 Turnovers, .505 FG%/.346 3-point FG%

Player 3

Playoffs: 25.5 PP36, 5.1 Rebounds, 6.0 Assists/3.3 Turnovers, .450 FG%/.398 3-point FG%

Regular Season: 25.5 PP36, 4.9 Rebounds, 6.8 Assists/3.3 Turnovers, .473 FG%/.428 3-point FG%

Well, then. Doesn't really look like any of them stepped up their games in the postseason in any meaningful way. Now, guess how many championships those players have won between them. Is the correct answer…

A. 0
B. 4
C. 9
D. 13

[SteelSD]

One of the worst posts I've ever seen, and that says a lot for you, Steel.

I told you before that you'd crossed a line. That was your warning. From here on out, I report all your posts that include that kind of stuff. I know you have issues, but you need to handle those on your own rather than lashing out on a message board.

[Bourgeois Zee]

He doesn't. I'd like to think that you're just being fooled by variances inherent to small sample sizes, but I'm beginning to suspect that you're intentionally misrepresenting them as truth. Over time, players are who they are.

Here's Butler's career per-36 stats in the postseason versus the regular season...

I wouldn't use per 36 numbers because he's playing more minutes than that-- and the more minutes he plays effectively, the more valuable he is. Too, you ignore defense completely. Better to use PER.

How does Butler rank using PER? Pretty well. Butler ranks tied for 48th overall in playoff PER for his career. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career_p.html) He ranks 46th if you include only NBA playoffs. Again, that's his entire career-- 10 years, 17 series.

He's not the 48th best player in the history of the game. He's not close to that.

You can chalk that up to small samples, but I disagree. Obviously.

[M2]

It'll be interesting to see how they match up.

In 2020, Herro had his coming out party against the Celtics, and Adebayo had a block for the ages.

I think Herro gets hunted to near extinction against this Celtics model. Honestly, I expect the ECF to be wildly different from the Bubble. Boston just held a better Bucks offense with an unstoppable player to less than 100 points per game. Unless Bam has an out of body experience I don't think the Heat have anyone that Boston can't neutralize. I'd have a similar take if Milwaukee had won today. I don't think Miami has enough firepower to progress any farther. They're up against a team that's flat out better than they are.

[SteelSD]

I wouldn't use per 36 numbers because he's playing more minutes than that-- and the more minutes he plays effectively, the more valuable he is. Too, you ignore defense completely. Better to use PER.

How does Butler rank using PER? Pretty well. Butler ranks tied for 48th overall in playoff PER for his career. (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career_p.html) He ranks 46th if you include only NBA playoffs. Again, that's his entire career-- 10 years, 17 series.

He's not the 48th best player in the history of the game. He's not close to that.

You can chalk that up to small samples, but I disagree. Obviously.

PER involves equalization just like per-36 minutes statistics. One of Hollinger's goals when creating it was to be able to compare players who played disparate minutes. If you have a problem with per-36 minutes equalization, you should likewise have a problem with PER, well beyond the fact that it's been long overtaken by better statistics and that its "defensive" component is far too rudimentary to be taken seriously. But I'm not turning this into a basketball version of a WAR debate. Had enough of that.

Did you figure out who players 1 through 3 are yet?

[KoryMac5]

Doncic really trying to be the center of all of your attn tonight...

[SteelSD]

Ok, did Phoenix really score just 27 point in the first half?

[texasdave]

Mavs are up 30 at halftime. If you are a Dallas fan, it would be a good time to turn off the television. If they lose that lead, and I don't think they will, you probably won't want to witness it. Doncic is tied with the entire Phoenix team at half with 27. Suns leading score has 5 points. Yikes. This would be a good time for Monty Williams to dig into his coaching bag of tricks.

[M2]

The Suns just melted. As the series went on, Dallas figured out how to shut down pretty much everything Phoenix can do. That Dallas defense is for real. The top four teams in the NBA in scoring defense are now the last four teams left in the playoffs.

[Betterread]

Phoenix set a new low for futility with 27 points in the first half in a game seven at home. The playoffs can be cruel. Dallas was awesome.
Boston is playing the best basketball in the NBA at present. And Golden state is finally healthy and showing a devastating variety of ways to score.
That’s my prediction for the finals, with Boston the 2022 NBA champs in 7 games.

[KoryMac5]

Devin Booker learned a valuable lesson last night..."thou shalt not mock Luka".

Dallas's 3 guard line up was absolutely unstoppable.
Interested in seeing what Doncic can do on a much bigger stage.

[dubc47834]

Ok, did Phoenix really score just 27 point in the first half?

1 point for every James Harden doughnut!

[SteelSD]

1 point for every James Harden doughnut!

Hmn, I thought it was waffles.

[M2]

Surely by now James Harden has discovered Tastykakes and soft pretzels.

[texasdave]

Hmn, I thought it was waffles.

And, I thought the Sixers were waffling on whether to bring Harden back or not.

- - - Updated - - -


Surely by now James Harden has discovered Tastykakes and soft pretzels.

Little Debbies - The Snack of Champions.

[M2]

Little Debbies - The Snack of Champions.

Does Wawa even carry Little Debbies? (Understanding this comment requires Philly-specific knowledge.)

[SteelSD]

And, I thought the Sixers were waffling on whether to bring Harden back or not.

- - - Updated - - -



Little Debbies - The Snack of Champions.

No, but they should be. Clearing that salary and Harris' contract would create some acquisition opps for them in the offseason.

[M2]

No, but they should be. Clearing that salary and Harris' contract would create some acquisition opps for them in the offseason.

My question is can they clear those salaries? It's possible that with various RFAs and Bird rights players getting paid that no one has the available cap space to take either of those contracts. The whole league is kind of maxed out. If so, they're going to be in swap mode. DC looks like the potential spot to send Harden, nominally for Beal + Hachimura. No idea if the Wizlets want to do that, but that franchise makes curious decisions. If Beal is indicating he'd like to go and Harden is indicating he'd be willing to take their money, that might convince them.

Or maybe Philly finds a way to jump into the Donovan Mitchell sweepstakes if he hits the market. If they're willing to take the corpse of Mike Conley along with him, that would seem like the foundation for a deal.

[SteelSD]

My question is can they clear those salaries? It's possible that with various RFAs and Bird rights players getting paid that no one has the available cap space to take either of those contracts. The whole league is kind of maxed out. If so, they're going to be in swap mode. DC looks like the potential spot to send Harden, nominally for Beal + Hachimura. No idea if the Wizlets want to do that, but that franchise makes curious decisions. If Beal is indicating he'd like to go and Harden is indicating he'd be willing to take their money, that might convince them.

Or maybe Philly finds a way to jump into the Donovan Mitchell sweepstakes if he hits the market. If they're willing to take the corpse of Mike Conley along with him, that would seem like the foundation for a deal.

Beal would be my target too with a close eye on LaVine. I think the picture will become clearer if/when Harden chooses to sign his one-year player option. Don't rule out a Harris/Thybulle package in a Beal sign-and-trade. Embiid really pushed for Philly to deal for him prior to the Harden trade. Normally, that wouldn't be nearly enough to acquire Beal, but sign and trades don't necessarily fit in the realm of equitable talent-for-talent swaps. A Harden/Beal/Maxey starting lineup would be weird, but Maxey's offense tends to be suppressed at the beginning of games anyway, so he could switch to a Herro-like "bench starter" role. They need to locate more pieces than that, of course, but there's plenty of time to see what's out there.

[texasdave]

What happened to Chris Paul? His playoff game spelunked.

First 8 games: 22.6/4.6/9.9. Suns go 6-2.
Last 5 games: 9.4/3.4/5.8. Suns go 1-4.

[RedTeamGo!]

What happened to Chris Paul? His playoff game spelunked.

First 8 games: 22.6/4.6/9.9. Suns go 6-2.
Last 5 games: 9.4/3.4/5.8. Suns go 1-4.

He turned 37 and wham

[BuckeyeRed27]

Also it’s not like Chris Paul has some amazing playoff resume. This seems to happen to the guy.

[Bourgeois Zee]

What happened to Chris Paul? His playoff game spelunked.

First 8 games: 22.6/4.6/9.9. Suns go 6-2.
Last 5 games: 9.4/3.4/5.8. Suns go 1-4.

I thought he was washed years ago, so I'm definitely not the guy to ask, but he seemed super slow the entire series. It didn't help that there just wasn't a good matchup for him-- Brunson ran him off screens and could get around him at will and Dinwiddie and Doncic were way too big for him. They just abused both he and Booker defensively. 34-53 commutively, with 13-22 from deep, and another 8-8 from the line is just ridiculous. Booker and Bridges have nothing to brag about either. Both arguably got it just as bad.

[M2]

Beal would be my target too with a close eye on LaVine. I think the picture will become clearer if/when Harden chooses to sign his one-year player option. Don't rule out a Harris/Thybulle package in a Beal sign-and-trade. Embiid really pushed for Philly to deal for him prior to the Harden trade. Normally, that wouldn't be nearly enough to acquire Beal, but sign and trades don't necessarily fit in the realm of equitable talent-for-talent swaps. A Harden/Beal/Maxey starting lineup would be weird, but Maxey's offense tends to be suppressed at the beginning of games anyway, so he could switch to a Herro-like "bench starter" role. They need to locate more pieces than that, of course, but there's plenty of time to see what's out there.

Rando thoughts:

- Somewhere along the way they need a forward or two who can guard somebody.

- Harden's got to pick up that option for fear of an immediate pay cut, right?

- Has any player made himself more expendable more quickly than Thybulle?

[Bourgeois Zee]

I wonder what Phoenix's play is going to be next season.

They'll need to re-sign Ayton, who should command a near-max salary from someone. (If I'm OKC, he's my first phone call. Or perhaps my second.)

Maybe they look to deal Saric for a bit of help or a draft pick?

[Mutaman]

One thing I’m pretty bored with is the national media‘s obsession with Chris Paul and the Phoenix Suns. I guess after they all touted Phoenix as unbeatable and the next coming of the 27 Yankees, now they’re going to have to make up for that by trashing Paul ad nauseam.
These are the same geniuses who said the Celtics were finished after game five.

[SteelSD]

Rando thoughts:

- Somewhere along the way they need a forward or two who can guard somebody.

- Harden's got to pick up that option for fear of an immediate pay cut, right?

- Has any player made himself more expendable more quickly than Thybulle?

I'd love to see Paul Reed at forward while on the floor with Embiid, if Reed can stay out of foul trouble, which is a big ask. No, Bball Paul can't really shoot, but dang if he isn't bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun. The other problem is that Philly really can't play with two non-shooters on the floor at the same time, which limits his ability to be out there with anyone but the current starting unit sans Thybulle while also having to replace Danny Green, whose knee basically exploded into pieces. So yes, they do need a forward. Even with Harris, they've needed a forward for seasons now.

I'd think that Harden would pick up his option. I doubt he'd decline it and instead sign a long-term deal for half price. But, unless you're Patrick Beverly- who believes that every team in the NBA would sign him to a max deal- I really think it's in Harden's own best interests to pick up the option and try to work himself back in something resembling his former self.

Thybulle is a paradox. On one side, you have the Sixers have a crazy good net rating with Thybulle on the floor with the other starters (like 100%th percentile crazy). And last I checked, the offensive rating was like 120+ in that scenario. He's a terror defensively. But he really hasn't evolved at all offensively, which means that his presence requires the kind of roster and rotation adjustments that allow him to be the only poor offensive player on the floor at any time. But...he posts Shooting Efficiency marks over 50% and a high of 58% this year. Then...he has stretches where he can't make a layup, much less a three. And...well, maybe there's still time, I dunno. He dramatically improved his free throw rate this year, so that might bode well for the future. But the clock ticks pretty fast on guys who only do one thing well, even though Thybulle does that one thing better than just about everyone.

[M2]

One thing I’m pretty bored with is the national media‘s obsession with Chris Paul and the Phoenix Suns. I guess after they all touted Phoenix as unbeatable and the next coming of the 27 Yankees, now they’re going to have to make up for that by trashing Paul ad nauseam.
These are the same geniuses who said the Celtics were finished after game five.

To be fair, they went 64-18. Of the 22 teams in NBA history with better overall records than them, 16 won the title. They seemed like a team on a mission. Though I kind of thought the Suns were getting overlooked a bit. I consciously titled our 2nd NBA thread after them because they didn't seem to be getting a lot of pub.

It will be interesting to see how many times Paul can roll it back, and whether the Suns have anyone who can pick up his slack if he goes down a notch.

[Betterread]

To be fair, they went 64-18. Of the 22 teams in NBA history with better overall records than them, 16 won the title. They seemed like a team on a mission. Though I kind of thought the Suns were getting overlooked a bit. I consciously titled our 2nd NBA thread after them because they didn't seem to be getting a lot of pub.

It will be interesting to see how many times Paul can roll it back, and whether the Suns have anyone who can pick up his slack if he goes down a notch.

PatBev had some tremendous repartee with Steven A. Smith on Chris Paul “he can’t guard in this league”. SAS goes into his ritualized histrionics of disbelief that he has never heard that before, and PatBev tells him “everybody lies to you because you never suited up”.

[Bourgeois Zee]

PatBev had some tremendous repartee with Steven A. Smith on Chris Paul “he can’t guard in this league”. SAS goes into his ritualized histrionics of disbelief that he has never heard that before, and PatBev tells him “everybody lies to you because you never suited up”.

I watched a replay of the Beverley/ Smith stuff.

PatBev needs to be on a morning talk show. He's a natural.

Not sure how many people in the NBA ascribe to his views, but I'd like to listen to PatBev for 10 minutes of my morning commute.

[SteelSD]

Smith, Beverly, and Redick need to have a show of their own.

Beverly on CP3's defense: "He's a cone."

Hyperbole, but still hilarious.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Smith, Beverly, and Redick need to have a show of their own.

Beverly on CP3's defense: "He's a cone."

Hyperbole, but still hilarious.

Good call on Redick.

Kyrie might be a sneaky good wierdo for that group too.

[Bourgeois Zee]

NBA draft lottery announced tonight at 8:00.

Who needs the top pick the most?

[M2]

NBA draft lottery announced tonight at 8:00.

Who needs the top pick the most?

I don't know who needs it most. Most teams in the lottery are there for good reasons. Though the Spurs have gone a long time since they had a top pick. Washington also would be interesting in the lottery.

I'm rooting for the Cavs though, because I want to see Jaden Ivey on that team.

[M2]

Sacramento got some lottery luck, they're in the top 4 mix with OKC, Orlando and Houston.

[SteelSD]

Good call on Redick.

Kyrie might be a sneaky good wierdo for that group too.

I'd more like to match up Kyrie with Antonio Brow and Adam Jones. The result would be indecipherable, but glorious. ;-)

[Bourgeois Zee]

My knee-jerk mock:

1. Orlando: Jabari Smith
Best combination of fit, defense, and instant offense. Might go Banchero instead. Either way, it's a great fit.

2. OKC: Chet Holmgren
Might also go with the wing scorer, but I'm guessing Presti sees the massive upside of Holmgren and dreams of a five-out, pick-and-pop. As a bonus, will be virtually indistinguishable from Poku physically.

3. Houston: Paolo Banchero
Most ready-made offensive player in the draft. Pairing him with Green is nearly criminal. Great fit.

4. Sacramento: Shaedon Sharpe
It's the Kings. They'll go upside, and no one has more than Sharpe. He also has huge questions.

5. Detroit: Jaden Ivy
Ivy's generally considered the fourth-best player. Anyone can fit next to Cunningham. The Pistons might be playoff-bound next season.

6. Indiana: AJ Griffin
I think I'd prefer Murray, but I'm guessing the Pacers won't. Might be a great place for a trade.

7. Portland: Keegan Murray
Great pick for Portland as a wing scorer. Can he play defense? Will it matter?

8. NOLA: Bennedict Mathurin
Mathurin can back up two spots next year and get major minutes. Love him in a second unit with Alvarado and Jones.

9. San Antonio: Johnny Davis
Might be the best pick in the draft, but he'll have to extend his range. He fits the San Antonio mold-- lots and lots of mid-sized shooters.

10. Washington: Jalen Duren
Duren is chiseled and will play defense. Will take some time to develop offensively, but too intriguing to pass up.

11. New York: Mark Williams
The Knicks are losing Robinson and Noel's an IL trip waiting to happen. Williams gives Thibs some defense and a soft touch around the rim. He'll fit well with Toppin and whomever they get for Randle.

12. OKC: Tari Eason
Defense-first wing after Holmgren. I'd like to see a shooter, but not in OKC. Not ever.

13. Charlotte: Walker Kessler
A bit of an overdraft, but he's a big need, and there's a chasm between Kessler and the next best center. Defensive force in college. Will be interesting to see if that translates.

14. Cleveland: Malaki Branham
Great fit here, IMO. A combo guard to fit with Garland. Defensive acumen, if willing.

15: Charlotte: Jeremy Sochan
Pure defense for a team that often lacks that trait. He can guard one through five and is an absolute train wreck offensively. He's Jarred Vanderbilt. But in Charlotte, that's a good thing to be.

16. Atlanta: Dyson Daniels
Immediate help as Young's backup and maybe part-time playing partner. He'll have to tighten up his shot.

17. Houston: TyTy Washington
Great change of pace combo guard fit. Will allow the Rockets to play Green at a wing to take advantage of his mismatch with opposing players. Reminds me of Maxey.

18. Chicago: Ousmane Dieng
Will take some time, but he's a 6'10" wing who can shoot.

19. Minnesota: Kendall Brown
The TWolves need a 3 and D wing. But Brown is too good a defender to pass up.

20. San Antonio: Nikola Jovic
LOVE this fit. Might take a bit, but he's the perfect old-school Spur.

21. Denver: EJ Liddel
Another fantastic fit. Liddel could score 15 as a second-unit alpha or pair with Murray and Jokic as the next Barton.

22. Memphis: Kennedy Chandler
Replacement for Tyus Jones, Chandler is waterbug quick, tough, and can shoot. He's also a Tennessee guy.

23. Brooklyn: Ochai Ogbaji
Another shooter. Why not? Might be a sneaky good wing scorer with Harris questionable.

24. Milwaukee: Jaden Hardy
At this point, you have to go with upside. Hardy has plenty and should be able to defend right now.

25. San Antonio: Marjon Beauchamp
A big bodied wing with issues shooting. He'll need some development time. Might be a deal to be made here for a future pick.

26. Dallas: Patrick Baldwin
All upside here. Baldwin was supposed to be the truth but got injured and was largely ineffective. Could be great. Could be a bust.

27. Miami: Blake Wesley
Notre Dame wing with good hands. Makes sense for a Heat team that may lose Oladipo.

28. Golden State: Jaylin Williams
The Arkansas big is probably a second-rounder on talent, but the need here is big enough to take him slightly early. Willing defender.

29. Memphis: Max Christie
Almost positive there's a deal with one of these picks. If not, Christie can shoot and is big enough to play wing. Slo Mo is a free agent and Konchar isn't trusted. If Brooks bolts, this pick makes sense.

30. OKC: Leonard Miller
All upside here. Unorthodox shooter, but nice handle. Reminds me of Tim Thomas, who had a few really solid seasons after developing.

[Rojo Rijo]

PUMPED!

[M2]

I do question whether OKC wants another beanpole. Detroit should do somersaults if it lands Ivey.

Love Mathurin to Nola. I also think he might be one of the biggest upsides in the draft. That kid is going to score, and he's got a gnarly attitude. I'm rooting for this pick.

Charlotte's got to trade up to get the center they most want, right? Maybe they think he'll be there at #13, but they ought to be able to slide up.

Washington should want Johnny Davis. Don't know if he'll be there for them, but guards should be their jam.

Feels like Dieng has helium.

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PUMPED!

Who would you take?

[adkindo]

not sure it is the right pick, but as of right now I expect Orlando to take Chet

[Rojo Rijo]

I do question whether OKC wants another beanpole. Detroit should do somersaults if it lands Ivey.

Love Mathurin to Nola. I also think he might be one of the biggest upsides in the draft. That kid is going to score, and he's got a gnarly attitude. I'm rooting for this pick.

Charlotte's got to trade up to get the center they most want, right? Maybe they think he'll be there at #13, but they ought to be able to slide up.

Washington should want Johnny Davis. Don't know if he'll be there for them, but guards should be their jam.

Feels like Dieng has helium.

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Who would you take?

Jabari, though i'd be lying if I said I wasnt intrigued by Ivey's otherworldly athleticism. I think it will come down to Jabari vs. Paolo with Smith's elite shooting ability winning out over Paolo's ability to create. Plus Smith is half a year younger.

I just hope they don't take Chet. Would be a massive mistake.

[adkindo]

The Magic should find out if OKC is locked in on someone.....then maybe push them into trading #2 & #12 for #1 and #32

[RedTeamGo!]

not sure it is the right pick, but as of right now I expect Orlando to take Chet

He’s going to be a bust, I think

[KoryMac5]

He’s going to be a bust, I think

Depends on if he is able to add size or not KP looks a lot different than when he was first drafted...plus he would have to be paired with a bruiser on D

[Bourgeois Zee]

He’s going to be a bust, I think

I think his floor is as a really solid second unit defender.

What I worry about is whether he'll be able to take the punishment.

[Betterread]

not sure it is the right pick, but as of right now I expect Orlando to take Chet

If they pick him, they don’t look back for a while. Reminds me of KG, with less hops but way better jumper and handle. Remember KG was skinny when he was drafted, and maybe he didn’t become Tim Duncan, but he was petty close.

[Bourgeois Zee]

If they pick him, they don’t look back for a while. Reminds me of KG, with less hops but way better jumper and handle. Remember KG was skinny when he was drafted, and maybe he didn’t become Tim Duncan, but he was petty close.

I really like Holmgren's game.

I also really like Banchero's and Smith's.

And Murray's. And Ivey's.

Lots of interesting talent in this draft.

[adkindo]

He’s going to be a bust, I think

I am less sure of those things anymore.....last year I thought Scottie Barnes was the guy, and so many people told me he would be a bust or end of bench guy at best. I was right on that one......the year before I was a LaMelo Ball guy and I was told he would be a bust by many. Again I was correct......but I was just as convinced in 2017 that Josh Jackson (Kansas) was the best player in the draft while others focused on his flaws. I was just as sure.....but dead wrong. Personally, I am probably a Jabari Smith guy this year.....but I can see a world where Chet develops into a high level NBA player and Smith has a seven year career.

[M2]

Jabari, though i'd be lying if I said I wasnt intrigued by Ivey's otherworldly athleticism. I think it will come down to Jabari vs. Paolo with Smith's elite shooting ability winning out over Paolo's ability to create. Plus Smith is half a year younger.

I just hope they don't take Chet. Would be a massive mistake.

Heard an argument today that Chet is the epitome of the lanky, project guy the Magic seem to love. I agree with you, but he does seem to be their type. Plus, who's going to soak up those Mo Bamba minutes if he leaves?