NCAA Football 2022

[WVRed]

Since the season ended in January and the other discussion is NIL thought we needed a new thread:

I would say this is big news:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34136486/qb-arch-manning-no-1-recruit-2023-class-commits-texas

Quinn Ewers and Arch Manning in the same QB room. Yikes.

[adkindo]

Since the season ended in January and the other discussion is NIL thought we needed a new thread:

I would say this is big news:

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34136486/qb-arch-manning-no-1-recruit-2023-class-commits-texas

Quinn Ewers and Arch Manning in the same QB room. Yikes.

If Texas was not moving to the SEC, I doubt Manning signs with them.

[RedTeamGo!]

If Texas was not moving to the SEC, I doubt Manning signs with them.

They aren’t going to move until 2025 tho

[Sea Ray]

They aren’t going to move until 2025 tho

They're targeting 2024 but I'm still wondering how the Big 12 is going to work out a season or two of bloat as in accepting expansion before losing OU and Texas

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/texas-oklahoma-to-the-sec-longhorns-sooners-targeting-2024-as-debut-season-in-league-per-report/#:~:text=Bowl%20Schedule-,Texas%2C%20Oklahoma%20to%20the%20SEC%3A%20Longhor ns%2C%20Sooners%20targeting%202024,season%20in%20l eague%2C%20per%20report&text=Amid%20Friday's%20news%20that%20the,transitio n%20on%20the%20same%20timeline.

[adkindo]

They aren’t going to move until 2025 tho

I still have doubts that Cincinnati, UCF, BYU and Houston are in the same conference as Texas and Oklahoma. It is not good for the Big12 or the SEC......so get the deal done for them to exit.

[Boss-Hog]

I still have doubts that Cincinnati, UCF, BYU and Houston are in the same conference as Texas and Oklahoma. It is not good for the Big12 or the SEC......so get the deal done for them to exit.Even for Texas and Oklahoma, it's an enormous amount of money to leave early. I think most expect they'll be out by 2024, which would lead to one year with the B12 newcomers, but I think the B12 will make it extra costly to get out a year earlier in 2023. Even if you're Texas and Oklahoma, at some point, leaving a year early just doesn't make financial sense no matter how awkward it'll be for everyone involved in 2023. I'm sure if they're willing to pay the B12 whatever exorbitant amount it'll take to let them out in 2023, the conference will accept it. Regardless, I don't see any way the B12 is at those 14 members past 2023.

[plantmanky]

If Texas was not moving to the SEC, I doubt Manning signs with them.

It is bigger than his College football play. Its a manning family play to buy the Cowboys from Jerry Jones. Only reason he picks Texas.

[adkindo]

It is bigger than his College football play. Its a manning family play to buy the Cowboys from Jerry Jones. Only reason he picks Texas.

The Manning family can put together $7 Billion?

[adkindo]

Even for Texas and Oklahoma, it's an enormous amount of money to leave early. I think most expect they'll be out by 2024, which would lead to one year with the B12 newcomers, but I think the B12 will make it extra costly to get out a year earlier in 2023. Even if you're Texas and Oklahoma, at some point, leaving a year early just doesn't make financial sense no matter how awkward it'll be for everyone involved in 2023. I'm sure if they're willing to pay the B12 whatever exorbitant amount it'll take to let them out in 2023, the conference will accept it. Regardless, I don't see any way the B12 is at those 14 members past 2023.

I just do not see how it benefits the Big 12 to have Oklahoma (or maybe Texas) winning their conference the next 2-3 seasons. If I was running the Big 12, I am trying to work out a deal both sides can accept and get on with building the new brand before the next TV deal. I get that many Cincy, UCF and BYU fans think they are going to come in and be able to take it from Oklahoma, but I would bet heavy on they will be disappointed.

[WVRed]

They aren’t going to move until 2025 tho

Assuming he doesn’t redshirt Manning will be a Junior if they do come in 2025.

[plantmanky]

The Manning family can put together $7 Billion?

They can with help from Texas alum and boosters......

[Chip R]

I just do not see how it benefits the Big 12 to have Oklahoma (or maybe Texas) winning their conference the next 2-3 seasons. If I was running the Big 12, I am trying to work out a deal both sides can accept and get on with building the new brand before the next TV deal. I get that many Cincy, UCF and BYU fans think they are going to come in and be able to take it from Oklahoma, but I would bet heavy on they will be disappointed.

They are still in the Big 12 even though they are lame ducks. Getting into the CFP is money and prestige for the conference (and their teams.)

[Slyder]

They are still in the Big 12 even though they are lame ducks. Getting into the CFP is money and prestige for the conference (and their teams.)

Remember Texas is the team that's struggled to beat Kansas... They're not getting anywhere near the CFP.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Remember Texas is the team that's struggled to beat Kansas... They're not getting anywhere near the CFP.

I actually think Texas might be fairly solid this year. They will probably get blasted by Alabama, but I can see a 10 win team.

[Chip R]

Remember Texas is the team that's struggled to beat Kansas... They're not getting anywhere near the CFP.

Point taken. Well, Oklahoma then.

[Boston Red]

USC and UCLA are going to the Big Ten? Wut?

[BuckeyeRed27]

USC and UCLA are going to the Big Ten? Wut?

Wow. Apparently this is real.

[Assembly Hall]

Saw this just come across:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/usc-ucla-planning-to-leave-pac-12-for-big-ten-though-deal-not-yet-finalized-per-reports/

[cumberlandreds]

Big Ten West!

It won't be long and there will be 4 conferences with 16 teams each. That will be the super D-1 division. Everyone else will be on the outside looking in.

[Assembly Hall]

Big Ten West!

It won't be long and there will be 4 conferences with 16 teams each. That will be the super D-1 division. Everyone else will be on the outside looking in.

Which conference will go away? Big 12 or PAC-12?

[cumberlandreds]

Which conference will go away? Big 12 or PAC-12?

Big 12 is most likely IMO. They seem to be hanging on by a strand now with losing Oklahoma and Texas. But the PAC 12 may be closing in losing the two LA schools.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Conferences don’t really make sense anymore anyway. This is good for football in a lot of ways, but do we really need to send nonrevenue sports across the country because they are in the same “conference”?

Football needs to be its own thing with its own oversight. The 4 16 team set up is probably inevitable, but the process of getting there is a stupid mess.

[westofyou]

Wow. Apparently this is real.

Oregon and Washington are begging to be included is my guess

[cumberlandreds]

So how many teams does the Big Ten have now if UCLA and USC are joining? I have lost track.:laugh:

[BuckeyeRed27]

Oregon and Washington are begging to be included is my guess

I’m all for dropping Maryland and Rutgers for those 2 (or Stanford).

[RedTeamGo!]

Which conference will go away? Big 12 or PAC-12?

I think the Pac 12 will respond to this by adding schools like Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas, Baylor, and maybe Texas Tech or BYU. Basically, UC is going to get Big Easted again.

[WVRed]

Conferences don’t really make sense anymore anyway. This is good for football in a lot of ways, but do we really need to send nonrevenue sports across the country because they are in the same “conference”?

Football needs to be its own thing with its own oversight. The 4 16 team set up is probably inevitable, but the process of getting there is a stupid mess.

Pods. The only problem is which teams go west.

Big Ten West:
USC
UCLA
Nebraska
Minnesota

Big Ten Northwest:
Wisconsin
Northwestern
Iowa
Illinois

Big Ten Northeast:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State

Big Ten East:
Maryland
Rutgers
Indiana
Purdue

[WVRed]

I think the Pac 12 will respond to this by adding schools like Oklahoma St, TCU, Kansas, Baylor, and maybe Texas Tech or BYU. Basically, UC is going to get Big Easted again.

Or does the Big 12 go after Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado?

Have to think my WVU friends are freaking out again.

[RedTeamGo!]

Or does the Big 12 go after Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado?

Have to think my WVU friends are freaking out again.

I would imagine the Big 12 doesn't have remotely the resources the Pac 12 does. But I honestly do not know.

[bucksfan2]

Or does the Big 12 go after Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado?

Have to think my WVU friends are freaking out again.

Utah brings nothing to speak of (other than a pretty solid football program.)

If they push further I think it will be Arizona, Arizona St, Stanford and Colorado.

Colorado makes sense because it major market (Denver, yes I know its Boulder, but Denver is a short drive) and it kinda gives Nebraska a branch and a traditional rival.

Arizona and Arizona state bring Phoenix and the entire state. Stanford gives you the Bay Area.

They would be adding the 2nd, 6th, 11th, and 16th TV markets.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Lot of talk that it’ll end up being 20 team Big Ten and SEC. SEC likely to raid the ACC and Big Ten raiding the PAC.

[WVRed]

Utah brings nothing to speak of (other than a pretty solid football program.)

If they push further I think it will be Arizona, Arizona St, Stanford and Colorado.

Colorado makes sense because it major market (Denver, yes I know its Boulder, but Denver is a short drive) and it kinda gives Nebraska a branch and a traditional rival.

Arizona and Arizona state bring Phoenix and the entire state. Stanford gives you the Bay Area.

They would be adding the 2nd, 6th, 11th, and 16th TV markets.

I said Utah only because of geography and BYU being a natural rival. But yeah Stanford makes sense.

[bucksfan2]

I thought I heard the ACC had a crazy buy out if one team tried to leave the conference.

FWIW I don't like the way things are headed, but its been that way since Nebraska bolted for the B1G.

While ND is the team that most belongs in the B1G, if you are going to expand, getting USC is probably the biggest fish out there.

The B1G will need to further expand because you need to give an olive branch out there to USC and UCLA. The next furthest west team can't be Nebraska.

One thing I never thought of with Conference expansion was inventory. The more teams, the more conference games, the more quality games, the more you can sell to a network. The more you can make with a streaming service.

[WVRed]

I thought I heard the ACC had a crazy buy out if one team tried to leave the conference.

FWIW I don't like the way things are headed, but its been that way since Nebraska bolted for the B1G.

While ND is the team that most belongs in the B1G, if you are going to expand, getting USC is probably the biggest fish out there.

The B1G will need to further expand because you need to give an olive branch out there to USC and UCLA. The next furthest west team can't be Nebraska.

One thing I never thought of with Conference expansion was inventory. The more teams, the more conference games, the more quality games, the more you can sell to a network. The more you can make with a streaming service.

I have a hard time believing the SEC is going to poach the ACC given the SEC is already in a lot of established markets (South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky). The Virginia and North Carolina schools maybe?

Then again no other school in the Big 12 fits the SEC profile either.

It’s an arms race at this point so who knows.

[KronoRed]

Big Ten West!

It won't be long and there will be 4 conferences with 16 teams each. That will be the super D-1 division. Everyone else will be on the outside looking in.

It'll be 2 conferences, maybe 24 or 20 teams each.

Colorado, Washington, Oregon, will be begging the Big10x2 for a shot, the ACC members will be trying to get into the SEC.

Chaos, we're about to have a coast to coach college sports conference.

[KronoRed]

I have a hard time believing the SEC is going to poach the ACC given the SEC is already in a lot of established markets (South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky). The Virginia and North Carolina schools maybe?

Then again no other school in the Big 12 fits the SEC profile either.

It’s an arms race at this point so who knows.

It's not just about markets but match ups, that's why Texas got in even though A&M threw a tantrum, Florida and USCe will probably have to hold their nose as one of the ACC Florida schools and Clemson till get an invite.

[Reds Freak]

College football is drunk. This just doesn't feel right to me.

[adkindo]

College football is drunk. This just doesn't feel right to me.

It is gross and will only speed up the trend of college football's death on the West Coast. I do not see USC or UCLA fan bases showing up when Purdue, Maryland or about 10 other teams in the Big10 come to town. It is capitalism operating in an environment that was never designed or intended to focus on gross revenue. That "Alliance" really held up.....I mean I thought it was full proof after they looked each other in the eye and shook hands!

- clearly there seems to be more shoes to drop. Seems like the common narrative is the Big10 going after Washington and Oregon. The makes sense, but this is still decisions being made by school presidents, and I could see them preferring the academic pedigree of Stanford and Cal.

- Not sure what moves the SEC has if they feel the need. Everyone keeps mentioning the top ACC teams, but nobody has offered a way to free those teams for their grant of rights deal that last through 2036. I thought Oklahoma/Texas may have been a test case to challenge the grant of rights, but it appears they believe they would not be successful. If that is the case.....ACC teams are not going anywhere as long as there is an ACC conference (based one what has been reported publicly in regards to the grant of rights deal.)

- Just like ACC teams, reports are Notre Dame has 2 options. Remain independent or join the ACC.

- I think the Big12 is in a stronger position than the PAC12, and would be in a much stronger position if the PAC12 sheds 2 more schools. The Big12 could find itself in an unfamiliar role of being the hunter.....seeking to secure their position as the 3rd conference by grabbing Arizona, Arizona State, Utah and Colorado.

- As a WVU fan, I am not concerned at all just like I was not when Oklahoma and Texas exited. I am confident WVU will remain in a solid position. The Big12 could strengthen, or there is still a case that WVU could be a fit in the ACC or SEC.

- The ACC really only has one move that moves the needle to keep them in the big leagues long term.....convincing Notre Dame to join. If they could pull that off, then there would be logic in adding an additional team to get to 16 teams.....and I think WVU would be the best option.

- If the ACC and Notre Dame are not options, the SEC's only path is likely to look at the Big12. In that scenario, I think WVU and OK State would be best options.

- Personally, I would prefer the Big12 strengthen and WVU remain in the Big12.....although the ACC would be attractive from a regional/rival perspective. I personally hate the thought of these Super Conferences (SEC and Big10) because it takes that magical season from unlikely to nearly impossible for teams like Purdue, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi State, etc. These fan bases will basically have to accept a very good season being 6-5.....and most seasons being well under .500. I just do not think that is sustainable to maintain fan interest.

[Coopdaddy67]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big Ten and SEC work together to destroy the ACC. I don't think the grant of rights is as big of an issue as people make it seem.

If the SEC and Big Ten want to poach ACC members, they're going to do it and nothing will stop them. Expansion will continue whenever those conferences say so. Until then, you have the Pac-12, Big XII and ACC just hoping to be the last other conference standing.

[adkindo]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big Ten and SEC work together to destroy the ACC. I don't think the grant of rights is as big of an issue as people make it seem.

ok....you could be correct....but based on what? Everyone said that Texas and Oklahoma would be able to challenge the GOA when they first announced their plans, yet they are still in the Big12.

[Coopdaddy67]

First, if 6-8 members of the ACC left for the Big Ten or SEC at the same time, I think the ACC's GOR would cease to exist.

However, even if it did remain in place, the money generated solely by media rights for the Big Ten/SEC is insane. Whatever money ACC schools would have to give up in the short-term they'd make back within a decade. You're talking double and perhaps TRIPLE what their current conferences are giving them. Besides, it's not like these major institutions are hurting for money. They can handle a big hit upfront and not miss a beat.

Then there's Notre Dame. It's pretty clear that being an independent is no longer sustainable. They're going to have to join a conference and obviously the Big Ten make far greater sense than the SEC. Unfortunately for them, the special treatment is over because they certainly aren't going to get that in either of the two major conferences.

[paintmered]

Whelp, here we go. Again. So, let's ignore the reams of contracts and some of the politics that will need ironed out between here and there, because we're clearly going there and it's only a matter of how much time it takes to get there. The consensus is that we're staring down two super conferences and then... who knows? But, I think there is a way to cobble up everything else into somewhat of a coherent third large conference, though far less "super" than what the B1G and SEC are about to become. The good news for UC fans is, I think the current life raft situation remains afloat, at least compared to the fates of every school not left standing in the remaining three. And I do think it will be three conferences instead of two to form the latest iteration of Division 1-A, even if it's a two-horse race. Three conferences will smooth over the concerns of the Congress critters and statehouses, and it leaves a larger pool of teams for out-of-conference games. So, here's how I build out the three super conferences:

B1G goes to 24 schools by adding: USC, UCLA (both confirmed already), Stanford, Cal, Washington and Oregon, leaving a west coast nucleus of the highest value programs. They also add Notre Dame (it's now or never for them), UVA, UNC and Duke. The PAC-12 dissolves.

SEC goes to 20 schools by adding: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and VaTech. I had debated Georgia Tech instead for a number of reasons, but the Hokies fit the cultural profile better, and the SEC already owns Atlanta.

The Third Conference Whose Name Doesn't Matter will then consist of all the current Big XII schools, the remnants of the ACC and the PAC-12 minus Oregon State and Washington State, and adding Memphis. This results in 24 schools that "cleanly" divide up geographically into four pods of six schools (heavily motivated by my desire to reassemble the old Big East gang):

- Pod 1 (Northeast): BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UC, and Louisville
- Pod 2 (Southeast): NC State, Georgia Tech, UCF, Houston, Wake Forest and Memphis
- Pod 3 (basically the OG Big XII): Baylor, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, and TCU
- Pod 4 (Mountains): Texas Tech, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, and Colorado

Memphis gets the lifeline of a century by virtue of geography, fanbase, and financial commitments towards facilities. Oregon State and Washington State take it in the shorts big time and emerge the biggest losers in the last four decades of realignment. The 3CWNDM is looking at a $50M less in media revenue each year compared to the B1G and the SEC, but they will be able to keep the lights on.

There ya go. 68 schools make it "in", all others are told to kiss the ring and kindly leave.

[WVRed]

Whelp, here we go. Again. So, let's ignore the reams of contracts and some of the politics that will need ironed out between here and there, because we're clearly going there and it's only a matter of how much time it takes to get there. The consensus is that we're staring down two super conferences and then... who knows? But, I think there is a way to cobble up everything else into somewhat of a coherent third large conference, though far less "super" than what the B1G and SEC are about to become. The good news for UC fans is, I think the current life raft situation remains afloat, at least compared to the fates of every school not left standing in the remaining three. And I do think it will be three conferences instead of two to form the latest iteration of Division 1-A, even if it's a two-horse race. Three conferences will smooth over the concerns of the Congress critters and statehouses, and it leaves a larger pool of teams for out-of-conference games. So, here's how I build out the three super conferences:

B1G goes to 24 schools by adding: USC, UCLA (both confirmed already), Stanford, Cal, Washington and Oregon, leaving a west coast nucleus of the highest value programs. They also add Notre Dame (it's now or never for them), UVA, UNC and Duke. The PAC-12 dissolves.

SEC goes to 20 schools by adding: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and VaTech. I had debated Georgia Tech instead for a number of reasons, but the Hokies fit the cultural profile better, and the SEC already owns Atlanta.

The Third Conference Whose Name Doesn't Matter will then consist of all the current Big XII schools, the remnants of the ACC and the PAC-12 minus Oregon State and Washington State, and adding Memphis. This results in 24 schools that "cleanly" divide up geographically into four pods of six schools (heavily motivated by my desire to reassemble the old Big East gang):

- Pod 1 (Northeast): BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UC, and Louisville
- Pod 2 (Southeast): NC State, Georgia Tech, UCF, Houston, Wake Forest and Memphis
- Pod 3 (basically the OG Big XII): Baylor, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, and TCU
- Pod 4 (Mountains): Texas Tech, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, and Colorado

Memphis gets the lifeline of a century by virtue of geography, fanbase, and financial commitments towards facilities. Oregon State and Washington State take it in the shorts big time and emerge the biggest losers in the last four decades of realignment. The 3CWNDM is looking at a $50M less in media revenue each year compared to the B1G and the SEC, but they will be able to keep the lights on.

There ya go. 68 schools make it "in", all others are told to kiss the ring and kindly leave.

I think the SEC goes for UNC next. Football is solid and basketball would be huge plus getting into that media market. Could see Virginia and/or Va Tech. Which leaves NC State or Duke and I think the SEC takes Raleigh and football over Dukes horrible football program despite basketball.

[RedTeamGo!]

I dont remember a lot of these SEC/Southern football fans saying a word when OU and Texas went to the SEC but now USC and UCLA are going to the big ten: "College football is ruined"

[paintmered]

I think the SEC goes for UNC next. Football is solid and basketball would be huge plus getting into that media market. Could see Virginia and/or Va Tech. Which leaves NC State or Duke and I think the SEC takes Raleigh and football over Dukes horrible football program despite basketball.

Certainly possible, though I suppose it's a matter of whether the B1G or the SEC gets to them first. I threw them towards the B1G primarily due to their academic profiles and a desire to not separate UNC and Duke.

I also agree that the SEC would prefer NC State over Duke.

[WVRed]

I dont remember a lot of these SEC/Southern football fans saying a word when OU and Texas went to the SEC but now USC and UCLA are going to the big ten: "College football is ruined"

It’s not ruined anymore than it was a year ago. The entire landscape has shifted.

What’s funny is that a year ago the B1G, PAC-12, and Big 12 got together in an “alliance” against the SEC and apparently it meant nothing.

[Roy Tucker]

College football is obviously going through a seismic change. If You would have told me back in the Woody Hayes era that some day Ohio State and USC would play in the same conference, I would have thought you were crazy. There was a giant wall at about the Rocky Mountains that split both geographically and philosophically the PAC 10 and the Big 10. You only had to watch the annual Rose Bowl games to see the difference.

But 50 years later, OSU is known for their air attack and wide receivers and USC is going to be in the Big 10. My how times change.

[WVRed]

College football is obviously going through a seismic change. If You would have told me back in the Woody Hayes era that some day Ohio State and USC would play in the same conference, I would have thought you were crazy. There was a giant wall at about the Rocky Mountains that split both geographically and philosophically the PAC 10 and the Big 10. You only had to watch the annual Rose Bowl games to see the difference.

But 50 years later, OSU is known for their air attack and wide receivers and USC is going to be in the Big 10. My how times change.

Never really thought about it but if Oregon and Washington jump ship next it will all but destroy the Rose Bowl.

[Rojo Rijo]

I think the SEC goes for UNC next. Football is solid and basketball would be huge plus getting into that media market. Could see Virginia and/or Va Tech. Which leaves NC State or Duke and I think the SEC takes Raleigh and football over Dukes horrible football program despite basketball.

UNC and NC State would be preferable but im just not sure if UNC and Duke can be separated.

I would love for the SEC to break into the NC market so maybe I could see my Gators play (though I will see them when they come to Raleigh for a non conference game in 2026). Taking UNC from the ACC would be going right for the heart.

[Rojo Rijo]

I dont remember a lot of these SEC/Southern football fans saying a word when OU and Texas went to the SEC but now USC and UCLA are going to the big ten: "College football is ruined"

Realignment and super conferences pale in comparison to the NLI and the new transfer rules if we're talking about what is truly changing the landscape of College Football.

As a Florida fan I don't mind the conference stuff but would prefer it still have somewhat of a true regional feel. It's already weird having WV in the B12 but UCLA and USC in the B10, talk about feeling out of place lol.

The main things I want out of College Football going forward:
1 - Expanded CFP to 6 or 8. I don't care if the argument is "well team A and team B are clearly the best and will kill the others so whats the point of the additional games?". The bowl system is done outside of naming playoff games and other postseason games after them. Give me a great 4 v 5 or 3 v 6. Heck i'd even enjoy that UCF type of team running their mouth to get their shot at Alabama, Ohio State etc. at least then they'd get the shot and we wouldnt have to hear about it non-stop.
2 - Give me five 16 team conferences. Don't care how you get there, just do it. Send the 5 conference champions and the next 3 highest rated teams in the CFP to the CFP.
3 - With those 16 team conferences everyone goes into Pod scheduling. 4 pods of 4 teams with rotations against the other 3 pods and 9 game conference schedules. 3-4-2, 3 against your pod, 4 against another pod on a 3 year rotation, and then the last 2 would come from each teams permanent opponent in each of the other 3 pods (2 games because they already play one in the pod rotation).
4 - NLI control. It's already all over the place. At the same time I have no idea how this could be done. It's killing me right now because Florida is still getting beat by other teams for recruits because those teams are pedal to the metal and Florida is tiptoeing trying to figure out what the NCAA does/doesnt want.
5 - Give me EA Sports NCAA Football 2023 ASAP. Wish it was back this year but next year!!!

[WVRed]

UNC and NC State would be preferable but im just not sure if UNC and Duke can be separated.

I would love for the SEC to break into the NC market so maybe I could see my Gators play (though I will see them when they come to Raleigh for a non conference game in 2026). Taking UNC from the ACC would be going right for the heart.

Might as well include Wake Forest then.

Part of me wants no part of any of the North Carolina schools. The ACC in basketball has always been a wine and cheese league and bringing in those four would bring the baggage that comes with it. Then again it’s better than bringing in schools the SEC already has a footprint in.

[WVRed]

Realignment and super conferences pale in comparison to the NLI and the new transfer rules if we're talking about what is truly changing the landscape of College Football.

As a Florida fan I don't mind the conference stuff but would prefer it still have somewhat of a true regional feel. It's already weird having WV in the B12 but UCLA and USC in the B10, talk about feeling out of place lol.

If the Big 10 goes to 20 USC and UCLA won’t be alone for very long and in a pod format they would be in the same division.

[Boston Red]

Conference realignment has jumped the shark.

[Coopdaddy67]

I think the SEC goes for UNC next. Football is solid and basketball would be huge plus getting into that media market. Could see Virginia and/or Va Tech. Which leaves NC State or Duke and I think the SEC takes Raleigh and football over Dukes horrible football program despite basketball.

I think UNC, Duke and Virginia would be a far better fit with the Big Ten. My guess is they'd agree.

[WVRed]

I think UNC, Duke and Virginia would be a far better fit with the Big Ten. My guess is they'd agree.

Those three are also AAU schools so they fit that blueprint. Guess it depends on who calls first. I’d imagine the B1G is going to expand west.

[plantmanky]

This is just going to kill more non revenue sports.

[WVRed]

This is just going to kill more non revenue sports.

And ultimately the NCAA.

[bm1475]

Yep, to me this is clearly headed toward the B10 and SEC breaking off, turning into two "conferences" that only play each other and have their own national championship complete with playoffs, divisions, wild cards, etc., and leaving everyone else in the NCAA with the scraps. Who knows what'll happen to the bowl system. It'll basically be the baby NFL, even more than it's been for years already.

[Reds Freak]

This is just going to kill more non revenue sports.

I'm in favor of separating football and having them form their own leagues, while all other sports remain in traditional mostly geographic-based leagues. All these decisions at the big time P5 level are all about football and it's screwing everyone else.

I'm curious to where this will leave non-football powers like Villanova, Gonzaga, Xavier, etc. Will the new superconferences form their own national tournaments in the other sports as well?

[RiverRat13]

Never really thought about it but if Oregon and Washington jump ship next it will all but destroy the Rose Bowl.It looks like we are heading to the B1G is the NFL and the SEC is the AFL. They'll both grow enough for each to have their own playoff (and get to keep that money for their respective conference) using their traditional bowl tie-ins. For the B1G, the Rose Bowl would be the Championship Game. Then eventually they will play a "super" bowl pitting the champion from each conference against each other.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[adkindo]

I dont remember a lot of these SEC/Southern football fans saying a word when OU and Texas went to the SEC but now USC and UCLA are going to the big ten: "College football is ruined"

honestly....you must not have been listening...and I am not trying to be rude but the "outrage" was much louder about the SEC taking on Oklahoma and Texas. I think most people are just numb to it at this point.

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I think the SEC goes for UNC next. Football is solid and basketball would be huge plus getting into that media market. Could see Virginia and/or Va Tech. Which leaves NC State or Duke and I think the SEC takes Raleigh and football over Dukes horrible football program despite basketball.

maybe, but I would speculate that if the ACC gets raided, UNC and Virginia will be Big10 bound. They kind of look down on the SEC academically.

[adkindo]

It’s not ruined anymore than it was a year ago. The entire landscape has shifted.

What’s funny is that a year ago the B1G, PAC-12, and Big 12 got together in an “alliance” against the SEC and apparently it meant nothing.

they know the color of each others eyes

[adkindo]

Those three are also AAU schools so they fit that blueprint. Guess it depends on who calls first. I’d imagine the B1G is going to expand west.

If given the choice, I think the BIG10 would much rather expand into SEC country.....but it would take a UVa or UNC to get their attention.

[adkindo]

I read the SEC will possess 7 of the 10 most profitable brands in college athletics (once Texas joins).....I assume the other 3 are Ohio State, Michigan and Notre Dame?

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still cannot imagine the Big 10 Presidents will be able to control themselves with Stanford and Cal just setting out there....

[RiverRat13]

AAU schools that the B1G could target: Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal, UNC, Duke, UVA, Georgia Tech. That gets them to 24, gets them into the Southeast, and gets them control of the West Coast. Lesser AAU possibilities but wouldn't surprise me: Colorado and Utah. Longshot AAU schools: Pitt, Arizona, and Missouri.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Coopdaddy67]

AAU schools that the B1G could target: Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Cal, UNC, Duke, UVA, Georgia Tech. That gets them to 24, gets them into the Southeast, and gets them control of the West Coast. Lesser AAU possibilities but wouldn't surprise me: Colorado and Utah. Longshot AAU schools: Pitt, Arizona, and Missouri.

I feel like the only way Stanford definitely receives an invite is that it was contingent on Notre Dame agreeing to join the conference. If Notre Dame doesn't request that, why not add Oregon, Washington and then one of Colorado, Utah, Arizona rather than Stanford? Those are the three large Pac-12 AAU schools in growing states.

[RiverRat13]

I feel like the only way Stanford definitely receives an invite is that it was contingent on Notre Dame agreeing to join the conference. If Notre Dame doesn't request that, why not add Oregon, Washington and then one of Colorado, Utah, Arizona rather than Stanford? Those are the three large Pac-12 AAU schools in growing states.Stanford and Cal have a ton of research money. The B1G presidents would love to have them in the Big Ten Academic Alliance. And my understanding is that Cal and Stanford are a package deal.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Coopdaddy67]

Stanford and Cal have a ton of research money. The B1G presidents would love to have them in the Big Ten Academic Alliance. And my understanding is that Cal and Stanford are a package deal.

The Presidents may want them for academic reasons, but I doubt they add anything to the tv rights deal, which would be a deal breaker.

[RiverRat13]

The Presidents may want them for academic reasons, but I doubt they add anything to the tv rights deal, which would be a deal breaker.Northern California has 15 million people, more than any current B1G state. And there are a ton of B1G alumni living in that area. They would add plenty to the TV rights deal.

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[Coopdaddy67]

Northern California has 15 million people, more than any current B1G state. And there are a ton of B1G alumni living in that area. They would add plenty to the TV rights deal

They just got USC and UCLA, which are the main schools currently/historically for football and basketball. They don't have to add more California schools to get access to that.

Edit: The reason the Pac-12 couldn't sniff the tv rights of the SEC, Big Ten, etc. is because their footprint all overlaps. They're currently getting just over $20 mil a year. That's already being doubled by the Big Ten and SEC. The Big Ten could approach $100 mil once they negotiate next year.

Also, the SEC and Big Ten networks blow the Pac-12 Network out of the water, which continues to struggle. Their regional network only has 8.5 mil subscribers as of last year and it was falling. The national total was less than 15 million. It's basically a step above the Longhorn Network and that was before their two marquee programs left.

[RiverRat13]

They just got USC and UCLA, which are the main schools currently/historically for football and basketball. They don't have to add more California schools to get access to that.

Edit: The reason the Pac-12 couldn't sniff the tv rights of the SEC, Big Ten, etc. is because their footprint all overlaps. They're currently getting just over $20 mil a year. That's already being doubled by the Big Ten and SEC. The Big Ten could approach $100 mil once they negotiate next year.

Also, the SEC and Big Ten networks blow the Pac-12 Network out of the water, which continues to struggle. Their regional network only has 8.5 mil subscribers as of last year and it was falling. The national total was less than 15 million. It's basically a step above the Longhorn Network and that was before their two marquee programs left.I might have agreed with this had the B1G not taken Maryland and Rutgers to try to get into the NY and DC markets. They would absolutely love to get the SF and Northern California markets. The other part of the TV puzzle is the sheer number of B1G alumni who live there. This was also part of the thinking of with Maryland and Rutgers. When OSU played Cal a few years ago, it looked like Berkeley had been invaded. So while that part of the country may not have enough Stanford and Cal fans on the surface, it does have enough Stanford, Cal, and (insert B1G school) fans to move the TV needle.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Assembly Hall]

Insight from USC:

https://www.on3.com/teams/usc-trojans/news/musings-from-arledge-usc-to-the-big-ten/

[Coopdaddy67]

I might have agreed with this had the B1G not taken Maryland and Rutgers to try to get into the NY and DC markets. They would absolutely love to get the SF and Northern California markets. The other part of the TV puzzle is the sheer number of B1G alumni who live there. This was also part of the thinking of with Maryland and Rutgers. When OSU played Cal a few years ago, it looked like Berkeley had been invaded. So while that part of the country may not have enough Stanford and Cal fans on the surface, it does have enough Stanford, Cal, and (insert B1G school) fans to move the TV needle.

College football, markets and tv deals have changed dramatically over the last decade since Maryland/Rutgers joined the Big Ten. Conferences care about brands more than ever now.

The Big Ten is still going to get into the markets throughout California. Again, they don't need all the other California schools for that. If it mattered, the Pac-12 wouldn't be struggling and USC/UCLA wouldn't have even considered leaving.

[KronoRed]

honestly....you must not have been listening...and I am not trying to be rude but the "outrage" was much louder about the SEC taking on Oklahoma and Texas. I think most people are just numb to it at this point.

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maybe, but I would speculate that if the ACC gets raided, UNC and Virginia will be Big10 bound. They kind of look down on the SEC academically.

We also heard forever that Texas would never join the SEC due to academics.

[bm1475]

The idea behind adding a market is to get your conference TV network onto the basic cable tier and out of the optional tiers so you can get higher rights fees. Northern California cable systems aren't going to feel pressure to add the Big Ten Network to their basic tier because of USC and UCLA. Cal and Stanford would change that equation.

[WVRed]

We also heard forever that Texas would never join the SEC due to academics.

Exactly.

Any outrage over the B1G yesterday is fake news. It was expected they’d make a move. It is funny though when the other conferences banded up against the SEC last year and yesterday happened.

[Coopdaddy67]

The idea behind adding a market is to get your conference TV network onto the basic cable tier and out of the optional tiers so you can get higher rights fees. Northern California cable systems aren't going to feel pressure to add the Big Ten Network to their basic tier because of USC and UCLA. Cal and Stanford would change that equation.

They haven't felt pressure for the entire run of the Pac-12 Network, which is exactly why it has been a failure. Not only have they struggled to get subscribers, but they were offering it for pennies (btw, where was the cost significantly higher? USC territory). Meanwhile, the Big Ten and SEC were charging a far higher price for their networks to be on basic tiers and have 3-4 times the amount of subscribers. It's pretty easy to see why USC and UCLA left.

Going forward, the Big Ten and SEC want to acquire program brands with rabid followings. They want to know fan bases will spend money to buy games, tickets and everything else you can imagine.

In the grand scheme of things, people don't care about the other California schools. Hell, even those California schools have shown they don't really care about athletics either.

[plantmanky]

And ultimately the NCAA.

Not really, you will just have a different governing body is all.

[adkindo]

Exactly.

Any outrage over the B1G yesterday is fake news. It was expected they’d make a move. It is funny though when the other conferences banded up against the SEC last year and yesterday happened.

I do not think it is fake news.....I am confident that what took place this past week will be detrimental to college football overall over the long run. If I am the Big10 do I make the move....probably if the money makes sense, but that does not mean it is good for the overall product. College football is becoming regionalized, and no region has been damaged by this trend more than the West. Weakening the only major conference West of the Rocky Mountains will only expedite that trend.

I think within 5 years of making the move, USC and UCLA will have flush athletic bank accounts.....but their athletic product will have been diminished. The first time USC visits the Big House, it will be a big national story.....a big story in traditional Big10 country....but only a slight buzz in Southern California. As a fan of WVU....a geographical outlier in a conference....I expect USC and UCLA Basketball (and non revenue sports) are about to enter a living hell (if the Big 10 does not add 2-4 more West Coast schools). On Sirius Radio they stated that Rutgers is closer to Iceland than Westwood....and the last time I checked UCLA was one of the only remaining major conference teams that did not utilize charter flights for basketball.....I have to assume that will change.

"If" the PAC12 tries to expand and remain viable, there is a part of me as a Big12 fan (WVU more specifically) that would not mind if they targeted BYU for the reasons of travel. I would be ok replacing BYU with USF, SMU or Memphis even though they do not have the same television value as BYU.

[adkindo]

It is funny though when the other conferences banded up against the SEC last year and yesterday happened.

Wetzel (Yahoo) crack me up when he said "how did 2 of the 3 Alliance members think they were on the same level with the 3rd member? It was clearly as case of Siegfried, Roy and a massive white lion! One of these is not like the other two.....and can take them out whenever he chooses."

[Coopdaddy67]

"If" the PAC12 tries to expand and remain viable, there is a part of me as a Big12 fan (WVU more specifically) that would not mind if they targeted BYU for the reasons of travel. I would be ok replacing BYU with USF, SMU or Memphis even though they do not have the same television value as BYU.

There's no way BYU is going to leave the Big XII for a conference that has had its future earning potential destroyed.

The Pac-12 is most likely going to lose 3 more schools if Notre Dame commits to joining the Big Ten.

The Pac-12 leftovers will desperately try to flee for the Big XII. Those that don't get an invite will combine with the Mountain West.

[adkindo]

Until someone lays out a rational legal explanation or example, I think the ACC schools are untouchable unless the conference disbands (based on what has been reported/speculated publicly). No conference is going to take on a school (asset) when their rights are owned by another conference until 2036.....unless they agreed to almost no revenue share, and no school could survive until 2036 with no media revenue.

[adkindo]

There's no way BYU is going to leave the Big XII for a conference that has had its future earning potential destroyed.

The Pac-12 is most likely going to lose 3 more schools if Notre Dame commits to joining the Big Ten.

The Pac-12 leftovers will desperately try to flee for the Big XII. Those that don't get an invite will combine with the Mountain West.

I know anything can happen, but I would still bet my house that one thing that will not happen is Notre Dame becoming a full football member in the SEC or Big10.....it is just not going to happen. Notre Dame has a ton of leverage right now with the ACC, and I think is more likely to force the ACC to allow them a massive sweetheart deal to keep their NBC deal (or most of it) to join the ACC. If Notre Dame joins the ACC, the narrative of the Big10 and SEC breaking away to form their own playoff, etc. is DOA....because it would not be considered very legit without teams like FSU, Miami, or Clemson.....but it would have no legitimacy without Notre Dame, the most storied program in the history of college football.

[adkindo]

I know the ACC would not agree, but I think it would be good for the national product if the ACC added Notre Dame, WVU, Cincy and UCF......the rest of the Big12 and SMU(?) combined with the PAC12.....and the expansion came to a halt. The SEC and Big10 would still be superior conferences, but the ACC and the PAC 20(?) would remain relevant.

[Coopdaddy67]

Until someone lays out a rational legal explanation or example, I think the ACC schools are untouchable unless the conference disbands (based on what has been reported/speculated publicly). No conference is going to take on a school (asset) when their rights are owned by another conference until 2036.....unless they agreed to almost no revenue share, and no school could survive until 2036 with no media revenue.

Let's say the SEC and Big Ten combine to take 8 teams from the ACC simultaneously. Will the GOR hold up? Who knows. Could those schools preparing to leave hold a conference vote to rescind the GOR? Once again, who knows.

There would potentially be a massive cost to leave the ACC for Notre Dame (rumored to be anywhere between $100-150 mil) and presumably more for full members.

With that said, there are projections of the Big Ten getting upwards of $100 mil/year with the additions of USC, UCLA, and Notre Dame. That a ton more than they're making now and ND's upfront cost to leave would be erased in a few years.


I know anything can happen, but I would still bet my house that one thing that will not happen is Notre Dame becoming a full football member in the SEC or Big10.....it is just not going to happen. Notre Dame has a ton of leverage right now with the ACC, and I think is more likely to force the ACC to allow them a massive sweetheart deal to keep their NBC deal (or most of it) to join the ACC. If Notre Dame joins the ACC, the narrative of the Big10 and SEC breaking away to form their own playoff, etc. is DOA....because it would not be considered very legit without teams like FSU, Miami, or Clemson.....but it would have no legitimacy without Notre Dame, the most storied program in the history of college football.

No, they really don't. The writing is on the wall, which their AD admitted several months ago: the Big Ten and SEC are going to be the main conferences going forward and everything else is beneath them. They've already got a sweetheart deal with the ACC and it's not going to get any better. The Big Ten's tv deal is going to destroy anything ND can get as an independent.

There's a reason you see a lot of ND alums/analysts now saying it's time to join the Big Ten.

[adkindo]

^^^^ND alums and most have always claimed ND fit in the Big10.....yet ND has always affiliated with the conference that put their other sports in elite standing while creating the "best" path for the most wins on the football field. ND could have made more money in conferences than being independent with their NBC deal for years now....yet money has not guided their decisions....being special has guided their decision making. They will not be special in a conference with Ohio State or Alabama.

[KronoRed]

The ACC might survive until 2036 or a probably a few years before that, it's actually not that far off when you consider this drive to super conferences started about 12 years ago.

Long term though it's just not gonna work out, they have too few marquee teams even with ND fully on board, they have a lot of basketball first schools and some baffling additions (BC anyone?) the SEC and big10 have 2-3 of those schools, it's about half of the ACC.

Clemson, fsu and um will be extremely grumpy in the coming years as the 2 majors rake in the cash.

[Assembly Hall]

^^^^ND alums and most have always claimed ND fit in the Big10.....yet ND has always affiliated with the conference that put their other sports in elite standing while creating the "best" path for the most wins on the football field. ND could have made more money in conferences than being independent with their NBC deal for years now....yet money has not guided their decisions....being special has guided their decision making. They will not be special in a conference with Ohio State or Alabama.

What they feel is best for their football program has guided their decisions.

[adkindo]

The ACC might survive until 2036 or a probably a few years before that, it's actually not that far off when you consider this drive to super conferences started about 12 years ago.

Long term though it's just not gonna work out, they have too few marquee teams even with ND fully on board, they have a lot of basketball first schools and some baffling additions (BC anyone?) the SEC and big10 have 2-3 of those schools, it's about half of the ACC.

Clemson, fsu and um will be extremely grumpy in the coming years as the 2 majors rake in the cash.

Listening to the Solid Verbal podcast.....which is "solid", but not really known for any inside information.....it was stated that right now the ACC has a deal on the desk of Notre Dame to add Notre Dame and WVU (and I assume a whole bunch of selling points positive for ND). If ND agrees, the ACC will be able to fully renegotiate their deal while maintaining the GOA through 2036....basically locking the ACC in as a major (3rd) conference for the next decade. If Notre Dame officially rejects the offer, the feeling in the ACC is that the conference is not likely viable and will find a path to disband (# of teams exit). Again, this is a ton of speculation.....even more so because the public and media really do not know the details of the GOA or how many teams would have to exit to dissolve the agreement.

They also mentioned and sited a source that suggests adding Oregon and Washington (or Stanford/Cal) offers little to nothing financially to the Big10....and schools like UNC, Virginia, and Miami would be more financially lucrative for the Big10. Again, I am not sure if that is correct....only repeating the claims made. They went on to lay out a plan where Notre Dame says no to the ACC....agrees to join the Big10. Immediately enough ACC schools vote to dissolve the GOA, and the Big10 grabs ND, UNC, UVA, and potentially Miami.

They did claim as fact that for the first time in a long time contraction is on the table with several conferences.....followed by more expansion. Specifically they claimed that Rutgers and Maryland people were nervous and closely monitoring the situation.

Mentioned....not sure if sourced....that there is a belief that Missouri could end up in the Big10 with some level of semi blessing from the SEC.....assuming the SEC sees a school that they could add as a better fit. Speculated the SEC would look to add Clemson and FSU, WVU and Virginia Tech....and possibly swap NC State for Missouri. Vanderbilt was mentioned as a contraction candidate....but I still find that hard to believe.

Mostly just speculation created from small nuggets of facts.....but I have found these guys to be closer to right than wrong on most of these things over the years.

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What they feel is best for their football program has guided their decisions.

ehh....if what they feel is the best path to 10 wins a year is best for the program, then I agree.

[Assembly Hall]

Notre Dame...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-realignment-news-notre-dame-on-deck-pac-12-big-12-could-merge-sec-vs-big-ten-playoff/


Per Yahoo!:


The UCLA Bruins and USC Trojans announced their departure for the Big Ten conference this week. The news came just one summer after Oklahoma and Texas voiced their plans to head to the SEC as late as the 2025 season.

Since the move, the Big 12 appears to be looking to become a third super conference. Not long after announcing a new conference commissioner, the Big 12 is reportedly looking at adding Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah.

While the league would not compare to what the Big Ten and SEC are building, it would present a viable third option to the two powers and include more teams in the future of college football.

The Big 12 has already added teams that could become recruiting strongholds. Cincinnati, Houston, and UCF are based in talent-rich recruiting grounds and have strong support from alumni. A merger between the Big 12 and Pac-12 presents a best-case scenario for teams outside of newly formed super conferences.

[WVRed]

Big 12 meeting with Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah tomorrow.

[Assembly Hall]

Big 12 meeting with Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah tomorrow.

https://thecomeback.com/ncaa/big-12-meeting-arizona-state-colorado-utah.html

[adkindo]

Big 12 meeting with Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah tomorrow.

On one hand, it seems logical from both sides......but it just does not "feel" like the next shoe to drop. I would not expect any announcement soon after they meet. Agree?

[adkindo]

Listening to Andy Staples podcast today at the beach, and he stated that The Athletic has the previous ACC grant of rights agreement. He also stated The Athletic has been told by "sources" that all that really changed in the current version is changing the dates. The Athletic had some very experienced M&A attorney's review the agreement, and their thoughts were it would be a costly fight that would take years.....and they still believe the odds were low an individual (or a few) schools could break free from the grant of rights. They thought the only realistic option would be for the schools themselves to dissolve the agreement....as no conference is going to take on a couple schools without their media rights.

He did not say how the old agreement was worded in regards what it takes to dissolve the agreement, but I would assume it is more than a simple majority of schools. Schools like BC, Cuse, Pitt, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest, U of L, and NC State who may not have a clear landing spot would seem unlikely to support dissolving the GOA.

[adkindo]

Not sure if this has been posted.....from John Canzano's substack in regards to media rights value to the Big10....


The ex-Fox Sports Network president, Bob Thompson, placed Oregon’s media-rights value at $30 million and Stanford’s at $45 million when I pressed him. That may be all that would normally matter to the Big Ten. However, I think Oregon’s national brand and Phil Knight’s clout give the Ducks the edge. If the Big Ten takes Oregon, I would expect there to be some sort of subsidy or waiting period (See: Maryland) before the Ducks are allowed to take a full conference media share.

I would not have guessed Stanford's media rights would be that high.

[Chip R]

Can Notre Dame still stay independent in football when the dust settles? I know their NBC contract is up in a couple of years but if NBC renews at a generous increase, couldn't they just continue as is? I would think that joining a conference would take a lot of the luster off their brand. They stay independent and they have a chance at the CFP with an undefeated or 1 loss season. They join the Big 10, for example, they are going to have to play better teams. No more service academies. They can't feast on the weak sister ACC teams anymore either. Joining a conference would mean they are locked into a bowl game depending on their finish if they don't make the CFP. As an independent, they have more of a say where they go. I don't know if the money they get for joining the Big 10 will be more than they get from NBC but I suppose that's the big question.

[bucksfan2]

I do not think it is fake news.....I am confident that what took place this past week will be detrimental to college football overall over the long run. If I am the Big10 do I make the move....probably if the money makes sense, but that does not mean it is good for the overall product. College football is becoming regionalized, and no region has been damaged by this trend more than the West. Weakening the only major conference West of the Rocky Mountains will only expedite that trend.

I think within 5 years of making the move, USC and UCLA will have flush athletic bank accounts.....but their athletic product will have been diminished. The first time USC visits the Big House, it will be a big national story.....a big story in traditional Big10 country....but only a slight buzz in Southern California. As a fan of WVU....a geographical outlier in a conference....I expect USC and UCLA Basketball (and non revenue sports) are about to enter a living hell (if the Big 10 does not add 2-4 more West Coast schools). On Sirius Radio they stated that Rutgers is closer to Iceland than Westwood....and the last time I checked UCLA was one of the only remaining major conference teams that did not utilize charter flights for basketball.....I have to assume that will change.

"If" the PAC12 tries to expand and remain viable, there is a part of me as a Big12 fan (WVU more specifically) that would not mind if they targeted BYU for the reasons of travel. I would be ok replacing BYU with USF, SMU or Memphis even though they do not have the same television value as BYU.

I have a family friend who plays soccer at Miami. We went up to Oxford to watch a game last season when they played Western Michigan. Western traveled to Oxford in a bus, which according to google is about a 4.5 hour trip. Suffice to say, no one from UCLA or USC will be taking the bus anywhere. While the trip to Rutgers still will be daunting, I don't think its far from what some teams experience with bus rides.

Logistics will become and issue, moreso for the LA teams, but I don't think it will be that big of an issue. I am wondering if the LA teams are going nix the Big Noon start.

[Chip R]

Logistics will become and issue, moreso for the LA teams, but I don't think it will be that big of an issue. I am wondering if the LA teams are going nix the Big Noon start.

Haven't they either been talking or actually playing games at that time so they can get more attention?

[bucksfan2]

Haven't they either been talking or actually playing games at that time so they can get more attention?

IMO its faulty logic. The Big Noon Kick has done great because they have leveraged OSU for a large portion of those games. You put OSU v Michigan in any time slot and its going to get huge numbers. You put OSU v Oregon and its going to draw huge numbers regardless of time slot. I would actually make the argument you leverage the West Coast in some of these big games and you get even larger ratings. OSU v USC at 9am Pacific isn't going to do nearly as well if its at say 1230 or 5 Pacific.


https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/The-10-most-watched-college-football-games-of-the-2021-regular-season--179059457/#179059457_1

Three of the top rated games in 2021 featured OSU, two at noon and one at night. Do you really think its the noon slot that gets eyeballs? Or is it Ohio State?

[adkindo]

IMO its faulty logic. The Big Noon Kick has done great because they have leveraged OSU for a large portion of those games. You put OSU v Michigan in any time slot and its going to get huge numbers. You put OSU v Oregon and its going to draw huge numbers regardless of time slot. I would actually make the argument you leverage the West Coast in some of these big games and you get even larger ratings. OSU v USC at 9am Pacific isn't going to do nearly as well if its at say 1230 or 5 Pacific.



Three of the top rated games in 2021 featured OSU, two at noon and one at night. Do you really think its the noon slot that gets eyeballs? Or is it Ohio State?

Time slot and channel/network matter......but to a much lesser degree than the team(s) on the field.

[adkindo]

Dodd claiming the Big12 in "serious" discussions to close deal with Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah.....and added they may try to also add Oregon and Washington.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-in-deep-discussions-to-add-up-to-six-pac-12-teams-after-usc-ucla-defections-to-big-ten/

[adkindo]

I have a family friend who plays soccer at Miami. We went up to Oxford to watch a game last season when they played Western Michigan. Western traveled to Oxford in a bus, which according to google is about a 4.5 hour trip. Suffice to say, no one from UCLA or USC will be taking the bus anywhere. While the trip to Rutgers still will be daunting, I don't think its far from what some teams experience with bus rides.

Logistics will become and issue, moreso for the LA teams, but I don't think it will be that big of an issue. I am wondering if the LA teams are going nix the Big Noon start.

I think it is apples and oranges when talking about a regional bus ride to a cross country flight. Even at the Western Michigan level, these are luxury liners that are very comfortable.....it is a whole different animal crossing multiple timelines every week, often multiple trips. I can't speak from experience, but I have heard everyone from celebrities to business travelers that begin coast to coast travel.....and they almost always talk about it becoming a fog the first 6 months to a year before their body adjusts.

[bucksfan2]

I think it is apples and oranges when talking about a regional bus ride to a cross country flight. Even at the Western Michigan level, these are luxury liners that are very comfortable.....it is a whole different animal crossing multiple timelines every week, often multiple trips. I can't speak from experience, but I have heard everyone from celebrities to business travelers that begin coast to coast travel.....and they almost always talk about it becoming a fog the first 6 months to a year before their body adjusts.

IMO its about travel time. The LA teams will have to negotiate start times for events when playing in eastern time zone cities, but I don't think travel will be all that difficult.

Luxury liners may be nice, but with the money these LA teams will make and the ability to fly Olympic sports teams all over the country, I don't think it will be that big of a deal.

[Assembly Hall]

Can Notre Dame still stay independent in football when the dust settles? I know their NBC contract is up in a couple of years but if NBC renews at a generous increase, couldn't they just continue as is? I would think that joining a conference would take a lot of the luster off their brand. They stay independent and they have a chance at the CFP with an undefeated or 1 loss season. They join the Big 10, for example, they are going to have to play better teams. No more service academies. They can't feast on the weak sister ACC teams anymore either. Joining a conference would mean they are locked into a bowl game depending on their finish if they don't make the CFP. As an independent, they have more of a say where they go. I don't know if the money they get for joining the Big 10 will be more than they get from NBC but I suppose that's the big question.

What if NBC got the B1G rights?

[bucksfan2]

What if NBC got the B1G rights?

It will be Fox, I think the networks are jockeying to see who gets the 2nd provider status.

I heard the apparent B1G TV contract will be richer than what ND gets combined.

[adkindo]

It will be Fox, I think the networks are jockeying to see who gets the 2nd provider status.

I heard the apparent B1G TV contract will be richer than what ND gets combined.

The ND contract with NBC is not all that impressive in annual revenue distribution.....and has not been for years. ND would have earned more TV/Media revenue as a member of the SEC, Big10 and even the Big12 over the last decade.

[bucksfan2]

The ND contract with NBC is not all that impressive in annual revenue distribution.....and has not been for years. ND would have earned more TV/Media revenue as a member of the SEC, Big10 and even the Big12 over the last decade.

If you are NBC, and I am sure ND still gets good ratings, but you get like 8 games a season, and at least half those are snoozers. To be honest, I think NBC would like ND to go to the B1G and get a piece of that action.

[Boston Red]

I don't know. The Big Ten has plenty of dreck just like the ACC. Michigan and Notre Dame (and occasionally Ohio State and Notre Dame) can play each other while ND is in another conference or independent.

[bucksfan2]

I don't know. The Big Ten has plenty of dreck just like the ACC. Michigan and Notre Dame (and occasionally Ohio State and Notre Dame) can play each other while ND is in another conference or independent.

Its inventory. NBC isn't going to get the top tier B1G contract, Fox will get that. But what if they get the second choice? Basically as it stands right now Fox chooses OSU v Michigan and then ABC gets the second choice which is usually PSU v OSU but this year its OSU v ND.

There are some years they could go with one or two Premier League games, ND in the mid afternoon slot, and then a quality game at night. They could some compelling games by branching out from just ND football.

[Assembly Hall]

I want ND in the B1G for selfish reasons...basketball tix are easy to come by for me in South Bend. If my woman would let me, I would be at every ND home game for B1G play.

[adkindo]

There simply is no justice in a world where Rutgers and Vanderbilt are in line to pound massive checks while Washington and Stanford are nervous about having a conference to call home. Recently I read that Vanderbilt's facilities are materially worse than higher level FCS programs.....what do they even do with their SEC checks? I guess a case can be made that Rutgers at least tries.....but Vanderbilt does not even make a real effort to improve their football program.

[adkindo]

Meanwhile, Wilner, on Wednesday, cited a source that would be "stunned" if Oregon and Washington follow USC and UCLA to the Big Ten in the immediate future. Wilner stated the growing reality is that the two schools will have to make things work in the Pac-12, or leave and join the Big 12.

https://247sports.com/Article/Pac-12-realignment-SMU-a-possible-option-for-conference-expansion-per-report-189736628/

[WVRed]

There simply is no justice in a world where Rutgers and Vanderbilt are in line to pound massive checks while Washington and Stanford are nervous about having a conference to call home. Recently I read that Vanderbilt's facilities are materially worse than higher level FCS programs.....what do they even do with their SEC checks? I guess a case can be made that Rutgers at least tries.....but Vanderbilt does not even make a real effort to improve their football program.

They did catch lightning with James Franklin.

I saw something where contraction was mentioned I think for the Big 10. Can’t remember where but if I were Rutgers I’d be sweating.

[KronoRed]

These conferences need to be for all non football sports, for football get the big whigs from the SEC and big 10x2 in a room together and have a draft, back and forth until they get to 20, then let the big12 and pac12acc draft.

Would never happen but it should.

[adkindo]

An interesting point was brought up on the Cover 2 podcast (Athlon Sports).....the media and fans assume the SEC would have an automatic interest in Clemson and FSU if the ACC begins to fall apart. They said those views are not as common in conference offices and athletic departments.....and the Big12 might be the best and only easy option for those two schools is the ACC come undone. They pointed out the SEC just does not need another school in Florida because UF is the premium brand that provides full access to the state.....and Clemson's media rights value would be worth less to the SEC than it would the Big12. They claimed decision makers believe the SEC would have far more interest in Virginia Tech and UNC while the Big 10 would go after Virginia, Duke and maybe Miami.

[Assembly Hall]

I saw something where contraction was mentioned I think for the Big 10. Can’t remember where but if I were Rutgers I’d be sweating.

All conferences need "punching bags."

[BuckeyeRed27]

Rumors UNC, Virginia, Clemson and Florida St are negotiating to join the SEC.

That would more or less force ND to the Big Ten. I’d like to see them pick up Stanford, Oregon and Washington and boot Rutgers and pick up Virginia Tech,

Lots of good pick ups for the Big 12 too. Big 12 wouldn’t be as good as the SEC and Big 10 but still a good viable conference.

[Boss-Hog]

Rumors UNC, Virginia, Clemson and Florida St are negotiating to join the SEC.

That would more or less force ND to the Big Ten. I’d like to see them pick up Stanford, Oregon and Washington and boot Rutgers and pick up Virginia Tech,

Lots of good pick ups for the Big 12 too. Big 12 wouldn’t be as good as the SEC and Big 10 but still a good viable conference.Does the rumor(s) address how the ACC teams would be getting out of their grant of rights that has 14 years left? That probably sounds like I'm trying to be smart but is a legit question, as I hadn't heard this one. I've read schools are likely looking into legally trying to contest it, but short of someone buying their way out through the enormous cost (Miami), that'd be the only possible way around it unless the conference adds a team(s), which would open the agreement back up.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Does the rumor(s) address how the ACC teams would be getting out of their grant of rights that has 14 years left? That probably sounds like I'm trying to be smart but is a legit question, as I hadn't heard this one. I've read schools are likely looking into legally trying to contest it, but short of someone buying their way out through the enormous cost (Miami), that'd be the only possible way around it unless the conference adds a team(s), which would open the agreement back up.

Apparently ESPN is involved with whatever negotiations are going on and they would presumably be the lead media rights holder for both conferences. The ACC could also completely collapse if those 4 leave and the Big 10 or 12 grabs a couple others and then the problem solves itself.

[Assembly Hall]

Breaking news:

https://twitter.com/PeterVecsey1/status/1545060408465039360?s=20&t=79VskyrwCTgpvyD40UYGCw

[Roy Tucker]

Pretty interesting article. Written from an ACC/FSU perspective but an in depth look at the grant of rights issues.

https://theosceola.com/following-the-money-making-sense-of-gor-and-whats-next-in-conference-shake-up/

[Sea Ray]

The Big Ten is going for media markets. That's the way to make $$. By that standard Clemson doesn't really move the needle for the SEC. I'd say Miami, FL would fit that bill and possibly UNC-Chapel Hill. The Big Ten has the top 3 markets in the country

[adkindo]

The Big Ten is going for media markets. That's the way to make $$. By that standard Clemson doesn't really move the needle for the SEC. I'd say Miami, FL would fit that bill and possibly UNC-Chapel Hill. The Big Ten has the top 3 markets in the country

I think the two primary markets the SEC want into is Virginia and North Carolina. I suspect they would rather take UVa over Va. Tech to simply keep the Big10 out of Virginia since the Big10 is unlikely to have an interest in Va. Tech.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think the two primary markets the SEC want into is Virginia and North Carolina. I suspect they would rather take UVa over Va. Tech to simply keep the Big10 out of Virginia since the Big10 is unlikely to have an interest in Va. Tech.

I bet VT is the second most attractive school to the Big Ten after UNC.

[Assembly Hall]

I bet VT is the second most attractive school to the Big Ten after UNC.

There is that AAU thing. Is Va Tech a member?

[BuckeyeRed27]

There is that AAU thing. Is Va Tech a member?

They aren’t. If they really wanted to stick to their guns on that, Georgia Tech might make sense from a media market standpoint.

[Assembly Hall]

They aren’t. If they really wanted to stick to their guns on that, Georgia Tech might make sense from a media market standpoint.

Georgia Tech only makes sense from the media and AAU standpoints. But not a needle mover for me.

[Slyder]

I wish WVU could have gotten in the SEC over Missouri. Looks like that might have been our 1 shot at it and apparently ESPN Hates us now?

[bucksfan2]

I wish WVU could have gotten in the SEC over Missouri. Looks like that might have been our 1 shot at it and apparently ESPN Hates us now?

What does WVU bring to the table? I feel like they were the program during conference realignment that benefitted the most.

They are a good football (and basketball) program, but they really don't bring an national profile, don't bring a fertile recruiting area, and for the B1G don't bring AAU status.

Since joining the Big 12 they have been a middle of the pack football team. IMO their sweet spot was the former Big East.

[Slyder]

What does WVU bring to the table? I feel like they were the program during conference realignment that benefitted the most.

They are a good football (and basketball) program, but they really don't bring an national profile, don't bring a fertile recruiting area, and for the B1G don't bring AAU status.

Since joining the Big 12 they have been a middle of the pack football team. IMO their sweet spot was the former Big East.

This isn't about program though.

WVU has the 20th most wins in the history of basketball programs.

WVU has the 21st most wins in the history of football programs.

That should say something about caliber of the school, yes they don't have the "golden ring" moment but they've been there multiple times that's more than 3/4 of these schools in the "safe zone" can say.

Everyone talks about TVs and if you look at actual ratings, WVU will always deliver ratings if they are on. Yes the state itself doesn't have many but we have alumni/fans across the nation. That's gotta account for something if you're talking about crediting Mizzou with St. Louis which its about 6th on the depth chart of things to watch/do in St. Louis.

[bucksfan2]

This isn't about program though.

WVU has the 20th most wins in the history of basketball programs.

WVU has the 21st most wins in the history of football programs.

That should say something about caliber of the school, yes they don't have the "golden ring" moment but they've been there multiple times that's more than 3/4 of these schools in the "safe zone" can say.

Everyone talks about TVs and if you look at actual ratings, WVU will always deliver ratings if they are on. Yes the state itself doesn't have many but we have alumni/fans across the nation. That's gotta account for something if you're talking about crediting Mizzou with St. Louis which its about 6th on the depth chart of things to watch/do in St. Louis.

Rutgers is probably the 1000th thing to watch in NYC, yet it still brought that massive market. Same thing with Maryland in the DMV, it brought that market.

Every big state university has graduates everywhere, I don't think WVU is anything special in that regard. They do have a rabid fan base, but I just don't think they are anything special to the table with expansion. Expansion is all about money, money, and money.

[Boston Red]

DID Rutgers bring that market, though?

[BuckeyeRed27]

DID Rutgers bring that market, though?

From a Big Ten Network on NYC cable packages, yes.

[Boston Red]

If that's all they were after, it's weird they didn't just go get Syracuse earlier. At least Syracuse is sometimes good at something.

[Boston Red]

Some interesting odds from Bovada for discussion. I would have expected the odds to be longer for both Louisville and Cincinnati with the SEC.

https://twitter.com/ericcrawford/status/1545472898076385286?s=20&t=SlVtHex2dFtwXWeXUIlzWg

[BuckeyeRed27]

If that's all they were after, it's weird they didn't just go get Syracuse earlier. At least Syracuse is sometimes good at something.

I’m betting it’s a different TV market.

[bucksfan2]

DID Rutgers bring that market, though?

Yes they did. On the field it has been horrible, but in terms on the market it has been great.

From a pure market perspective, WVU would bring Charlestown (to the B1G.) It would be similar to grabbing Toledo (75 vs 80.)

I think you can make an argument that some of the more recent Big12 additions would be better grabs than WVU, mainly UC and Houston.

[Boston Red]

I’m betting it’s a different TV market.

Of course the Syracuse market is different, but Syracuse would also bring the NYC market (at least to the same extent Rutgers "brought it").

[BuckeyeRed27]

Of course the Syracuse market is different, but Syracuse would also bring the NYC market (at least to the same extent Rutgers "brought it").

Not economically. The Big Ten Network (or the SEC Network etc) gets a higher per subscriber payout for in market vs out of market. I’m not sure of the current numbers but at one point it was something like $.35 for in network and $.03 for out of network. So Rutgers basically brings in $.35 for everyone that has a cable or streaming package in New York and New Jersey and Syracuse would have brought in $.35 for everyone in Ithaca and Buffalo and the same $.03 as everyone else does for NYC. That’s why Rutgers gets the privilege of losing 49-7 every week.

[Boston Red]

That's pretty silly. Would Chicago be considered "in market" for Illinois? I know it doesn't matter in that case since Northwestern also....exists. But it's pretty goofy.

[Assembly Hall]

This isn't about program though.

WVU has the 20th most wins in the history of basketball programs.

WVU has the 21st most wins in the history of football programs.

That should say something about caliber of the school, yes they don't have the "golden ring" moment but they've been there multiple times that's more than 3/4 of these schools in the "safe zone" can say.

Everyone talks about TVs and if you look at actual ratings, WVU will always deliver ratings if they are on. Yes the state itself doesn't have many but we have alumni/fans across the nation. That's gotta account for something if you're talking about crediting Mizzou with St. Louis which its about 6th on the depth chart of things to watch/do in St. Louis.

West Virginia moves my needle more than Georgia Tech.

[adkindo]

This isn't about program though.

WVU has the 20th most wins in the history of basketball programs.

WVU has the 21st most wins in the history of football programs.

That should say something about caliber of the school, yes they don't have the "golden ring" moment but they've been there multiple times that's more than 3/4 of these schools in the "safe zone" can say.

Everyone talks about TVs and if you look at actual ratings, WVU will always deliver ratings if they are on. Yes the state itself doesn't have many but we have alumni/fans across the nation. That's gotta account for something if you're talking about crediting Mizzou with St. Louis which its about 6th on the depth chart of things to watch/do in St. Louis.

just wanted to point out that WVU is #15 in wins within FBS Football and #20 in NCAA Basketball wins. I think there are only 3 schools that are on both lists.....Top 20 FBS wins and Top 20 NCAA Basketball wins....Notre Dame, Texas and WVU.

[adkindo]

What does WVU bring to the table? I feel like they were the program during conference realignment that benefitted the most.

They are a good football (and basketball) program, but they really don't bring an national profile, don't bring a fertile recruiting area, and for the B1G don't bring AAU status.

Since joining the Big 12 they have been a middle of the pack football team. IMO their sweet spot was the former Big East.

I am not making a case that WVU should be in the SEC or any conference, but I think you are slightly underselling the program. WVU totally bungled the move to the Big12 and truly still trying to overcome those mistakes. WVU believed they needed to act, play and recruit like a Big12 team early on, and it was a disaster. WVU brought in Dana who supported that belief, and WVU lost most of their recruiting pipelines that Doc Holiday had spent decades building, and tried to recruit in traditional Big12 territory. It did not go well. WVU which had been built around athleticism, speed and running the ball decided we must become a full air raid team in the Big12, and nearly quit playing defense. While Neal Brown has not corrected the ship in wins, he has corrected the ship in regards to recruiting, culture, etc. and it clearly is showing in our recruiting classes that have returned the focus to Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New York, etc. If you think those Major Harris teams or Pat White teams could only compete in the Big East, then I strongly disagree.

In regards to national profile....it is not a blue blood and does not have the large population in the home state....but it punches above it's weight in national profile as much as any school in the country. The Flying WV is annually voted one of the most recognizable college athletic logo's in the country.

Still, WVU is a tough fit as it has a fan base that fits in the SEC in regards to cultural similarities and level of interest/passion....but not in size with the top half of the SEC. At the same time, athletically and geographically it belongs in the ACC. The Big12 is a solid fit in regards to athletics, culture and academics....yet it is an outlier geographically.

[Assembly Hall]

I am not making a case that WVU should be in the SEC or any conference, but I think you are slightly underselling the program. WVU totally bungled the move to the Big12 and truly still trying to overcome those mistakes. WVU believed they needed to act, play and recruit like a Big12 team early on, and it was a disaster. WVU brought in Dana who supported that belief, and WVU lost most of their recruiting pipelines that Doc Holiday had spent decades building, and tried to recruit in traditional Big12 territory. It did not go well. WVU which had been built around athleticism, speed and running the ball decided we must become a full air raid team in the Big12, and nearly quit playing defense. While Neal Brown has not corrected the ship in wins, he has corrected the ship in regards to recruiting, culture, etc. and it clearly is showing in our recruiting classes that have returned the focus to Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New York, etc. If you think those Major Harris teams or Pat White teams could only compete in the Big East, then I strongly disagree.

In regards to national profile....it is not a blue blood and does not have the large population in the home state....but it punches above it's weight in national profile as much as any school in the country. The Flying WV is annually voted one of the most recognizable college athletic logo's in the country.

Still, WVU is a tough fit as it has a fan base that fits in the SEC in regards to cultural similarities and level of interest/passion....but not in size with the top half of the SEC. At the same time, athletically and geographically it belongs in the ACC. The Big12 is a solid fit in regards to athletics, culture and academics....yet it is an outlier geographically.

Add to it, WV has a history of playing many ACC schools even before they were in the ACC.

[Chip R]

Sally Jenkins has an interesting column in the Washington Post about this. She's not wrong that this is all about making money and the SCOTUS decision led to all of this but before that you could only get two games a week on TV on one network. I realize that decision let the cat out of the bag and ultimately led to what we have now but was it better before? BTW, the article is free.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/07/08/college-football-realignment-big-ten-sec/

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sally Jenkins has an interesting column in the Washington Post about this. She's not wrong that this is all about making money and the SCOTUS decision led to all of this but before that you could only get two games a week on TV on one network. I realize that decision let the cat out of the bag and ultimately led to what we have now but was it better before? BTW, the article is free.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/07/08/college-football-realignment-big-ten-sec/

College football is absolutely better than it was in whatever time period you want to argue.

It doesn’t mean it’s perfect now.

[adkindo]

Add to it, WV has a history of playing many ACC schools even before they were in the ACC.

I will always wish Miami never started this mess.....I loved the old Big East with Miami, Cuse, BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Rutgers and WVU. It is hard to make a case that any of those programs have benefitted from exiting the conference. Miami was a national power winning natty's in the Big East.....Va. Tech was surging as much as any team in the country coming off a National Championship game appearance a few years before exiting.....Pitt, Cuse and WVU were competitive tough outs most years....and believe it or not even BC and Rutgers had periods of relevancy in the Big East that they have not had since exiting.....and Temple just sucked.

[adkindo]

College football is absolutely better than it was in whatever time period you want to argue.

It doesn’t mean it’s perfect now.

I personally disagree....I do not think the SEC and the Southeast in general (Clemson, FSU, etc.) total dominance of college football over the past decade and a half has been healthy at all for the sport overall. I recently read that the SEC, Clemson and FSU are responsible for 15 of the last 16 National Championships (Ohio State in 2014). It has nearly killed college football West of the Rocky Mountains. If you look at the 15 years before that period....a lot of common blue blood names, but spread across the country....USC, Ohio State, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington. I think that period was much healthier for the sport.

[Slyder]

I will always wish Miami never started this mess.....I loved the old Big East with Miami, Cuse, BC, Pitt, Virginia Tech, Rutgers and WVU. It is hard to make a case that any of those programs have benefitted from exiting the conference. Miami was a national power winning natty's in the Big East.....Va. Tech was surging as much as any team in the country coming off a National Championship game appearance a few years before exiting.....Pitt, Cuse and WVU were competitive tough outs most years....and believe it or not even BC and Rutgers had periods of relevancy in the Big East that they have not had since exiting.....and Temple just sucked.

The old Big East was doomed from the moment they rejected Penn State. Football was driving the bus and the basketball schools had more control. Had the football schools done what was needed I still believe the Big East would have been relevant and the ACC would NOT have been able to poach BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Va Tech. Miami still likely goes but there had been more schools in the fold by then to absorb the blow.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I personally disagree....I do not think the SEC and the Southeast in general (Clemson, FSU, etc.) total dominance of college football over the past decade and a half has been healthy at all for the sport overall. I recently read that the SEC, Clemson and FSU are responsible for 15 of the last 16 National Championships (Ohio State in 2014). It has nearly killed college football West of the Rocky Mountains. If you look at the 15 years before that period....a lot of common blue blood names, but spread across the country....USC, Ohio State, Florida, Tennessee, Texas, Michigan, Nebraska, Washington. I think that period was much healthier for the sport.

College football has always been pretty cyclical though. A big part of that has been Alabama and Nick Saban and he can’t live forever (right? Probably?). And part of the reason you had more parity prior to 2001 was because of the nonsense way college football selected it’s national champion. Also I have a degree from USC and I can assure you that college football isn’t dead on the west coast even if they haven’t been as competitive in the last decade. They’ll be fine.

There seems to be longing and nostalgia for bowl era and I don’t get that at all. We want to go back to BYU winning a national championship after they beat a 5 loss team in the Holiday Bowl for example? Or just what would be playoff teams playing in their obligated bowl games and not against each other which happened basically every season? The playoffs have been a huge upgrade to college football, even if they aren’t perfect by any means.

There also seems to be a lot of complaints about money. Players get NIL now. All the conference realignment is just about money. Yeah? It wasn’t about money when the Southwest Conference literally imploded from cheating and SMU got the death penalty? Conferences have realigned pretty regularly since the invention of college football. It’s always been about money. It always will be about money. Maybe they are a little more honest about it now so people can’t pretend that their school and conference is the morally superior one or whatever.

I don’t like the general messiness of college football change that is basically a function of their not being any central leadership. But that doesn’t mean that the change that happens isn’t good or makes the sport better and more interesting.

[adkindo]

^^^conferences have realigned since the invention of college football, but the primary reason of television money did not really begin until Miami and others exited the Big East. In hindsight we learned how much ESPN was involved with the promise of a new tv deal and conference network, and have remained involved in moving the pieces on the board. Today Fox has joined ESPN as being an invisible hand helping move pieces for the sole purpose of maximizing revenue. Up until then, most of the realignment was built around regional ties, breaking away to form a new conference for more control, petty infighting, etc. For example, most of the SEC and ACC was formed by members of the Southern Conference.....and while I am sure money was an issue, it was likely more about controlling money than the thought of exponentially growing revenue.....because there simply was not a path like television to make that happen.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Yeah, but does the reason matter? The results are the same.

The money is exponentially bigger and there is an avenue for basically everyone to be on TV because people like it and watch and want to watch it more. That’s a good thing.

[adkindo]

Yeah, but does the reason matter? The results are the same.

The money is exponentially bigger and there is an avenue for basically everyone to be on TV because people like it and watch and want to watch it more. That’s a good thing.

but that is the thing.....the results are not the same. When the SEC broke away from the Southern Conference, they chose mostly like minded schools culturally, academically, and especially regionally. The same for the ACC.....and when the Big12 formed, they did not try to get Boston College or Washington to join. College football was built on the cultural and regional ties of the schools and fan bases. We have continued to push those limits chasing dollars, but I think there is a chance that the Big10's reach this time may be the breaking point and have diminished returns. I do not think USC and UCLA will thrive in the Big10.....I actually doubt either will have much success at all over time. I have zero doubt that it will damage West Coast football, and the problem is that once we head down this path, we simply can't restore it back if we realize it did not work as expected. Is the Big10 a better more entertaining product with Maryland and Rutgers? Did Missouri improve the SEC? Heck, on a net basis over the long term has WVU improved the Big12. It is hard to identify a program that went from one power conference to a new power conference in modern history, and both the school and conference benefitted with a better product on the field with maybe the exception of Texas A&M. They rarely bolster to the conference product, and the schools mostly become less relevant in the overall landscape......and I think this is a direct result of money driving the realignment instead of historical reasons for realignment.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Yeah I don’t disagree with a lot of that. I think the regional part goes back to what I was saying about how for a long time college football had a really stupid way of choosing it’s champions. We didn’t really KNOW who the best team was because very often they never played each other. So yeah that allowed for more regionality. And I will say I don’t want to see this expansion kill off rivalries. It has sucked that Texas and Texas A&M haven’t been playing. Same with Oklahoma Nebraska and the UNC/Duke basketball rivalry if UNC does end up in the SEC. But they’ve largely stayed or in the Texas case will be coming back.

By moving to a playoff, which I think it’s hard to argue isn’t better and more interesting, and likely a larger playoff some time soon, it just starts to make more and more sense to have larger conferences and less regional impact.

Specific to your USC/UCLA big ten point, I’d be shocked if the Big Ten doesn’t add 4 more schools with at least 2 or 3 being from the current PAC by the time they join in 2024. It is certainly a little odd and probably not the best competitively if it ends up just them, but I don’t think it will.

[Assembly Hall]

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/article263256073.html


Irony at it's finest.

[Assembly Hall]

More 'rhetoric' from CBS:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/conference-realignment-slows-as-big-12-pac-12-may-be-realizing-theyre-worth-more-together-than-apart/

[Assembly Hall]

Go Irish!

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

[Sea Ray]

Go Irish!

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/notre-dame-targeting-75-million-annual-media-rights-payout-in-quest-to-remain-independent/

I'm not really getting this:


Notre Dame would remain independent if it can earn at least $75 million annually in media rights revenue from current broadcast partner NBC, sources told CBS Sports. The Fighting Irish's deal with the network is set to expire in 2025.

For NBC to feel comfortable raising Notre Dame's valuation to such a level, it is seeking "shoulder programming" (in this case, games played before and/or after Notre Dame's contests) from a Power Five conference to enhance its college football coverage.

When such a move had been speculated previously, the Big Ten was the conference mentioned most often as a target. However, the Big 12 has emerged as a strong option to fill NBC's shoulder programming needs

OK, that shoulder programming from the Big 12 would most certainly come with another price tag. ND isn't sending any of its $75 mill to the Big 12.

These numbers seem pretty daunting. I'm thinking ND's best bet is to head to the Big Ten

[Assembly Hall]

I'm not really getting this:



OK, that shoulder programming from the Big 12 would most certainly come with another price tag. ND isn't sending any of its $75 mill to the Big 12.

These numbers seem pretty daunting. I'm thinking ND's best bet is to head to the Big Ten

First, let's see if NBC does indeed pony up the $75 mill for ND. But remember NBC is going to be in negotiations for other conference's games as well.

[KronoRed]

Even if they get 75 million it will still pale in comparison to what the bigmac and SEC schools will be getting.

[Assembly Hall]

Even if they get 75 million it will still pale in comparison to what the bigmac and SEC schools will be getting.

Keep in mind the Irish will also get some ACC money to go along with the NBC cash.

[bucksfan2]

Keep in mind the Irish will also get some ACC money to go along with the NBC cash.

ND is in a precarious situation. The way the conferences are going, and super conferences are the end game, ND's status as a independent may end up being their doom.

You can have an agreement with the ACC, but if FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC (Who have been rumored to head to the SEC) all leave, who are you playing?

For years ND to the B1G made too much sense. Natural rivalries like Michigan, MSU, and Purdue, now USC and then you have the regional, but we aren't going to play rivalry against OSU.

I won't shed a tear for ND if they are left on the outside because of their arrogance, but it would create some fun games if they do join the B1G.

[BuckeyeRed27]

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

This has the TV ratings from week to week last season. You can scroll through and you’ll notice that ND is hardly ever at the top or even near it and is usually in the 1-3M viewers range. If they can get $75M good for them, but it seems like a huge stretch.

[Assembly Hall]

ND is in a precarious situation. The way the conferences are going, and super conferences are the end game, ND's status as a independent may end up being their doom.

You can have an agreement with the ACC, but if FSU, Miami, Clemson, and UNC (Who have been rumored to head to the SEC) all leave, who are you playing?

For years ND to the B1G made too much sense. Natural rivalries like Michigan, MSU, and Purdue, now USC and then you have the regional, but we aren't going to play rivalry against OSU.

I won't shed a tear for ND if they are left on the outside because of their arrogance, but it would create some fun games if they do join the B1G.

Notre Dame's reluctance to join the B1G has baffled me for years. I am to the point where I truly believed they are scared. Scared that the rigors of playing in the B1G will rub some gold off that dome.

[bucksfan2]

Notre Dame's reluctance to join the B1G has baffled me for years. I am to the point where I truly believed they are scared. Scared that the rigors of playing in the B1G will rub some gold off that dome.

Things may be changing with Marcus Freeman, but ND always struck me as a team that was good, not great, but could make the playoff if everything broke right for them. Then when put on the field with top competition were exposed as frauds. The remind me of a good Wisconsin team, capable enough to run the table if the schedule breaks for them, but then when they see OSU in the title game its a whole different stroy.

ND's rise as of late has been due to the contract with the ACC and soft ACC portion of their schedule (sans the years they had to play Clemson) as well as USC and Stanford being dumpster fires.

Just looked at their schedule this season, good luck Marcus Freeman!

[Rojo Rijo]

Notre Dame's reluctance to join the B1G has baffled me for years. I am to the point where I truly believed they are scared. Scared that the rigors of playing in the B1G will rub some gold off that dome.

I never understood the ACC move, unless it was because the ACC let them have what they wanted (non-conference member in football with 5 scheduled ACC games per year while being an ACC school in every other sport). The B1G always seemed like it made the most sense, both geographically and because Notre Dame played at least 3 games against B1G schools from 2002-2014 before they halfway joined the ACC. Their record against the B1G is 29-21 over that time (02'-'22). I'm guessing the B1G wasnt willing to deal with their partial member bullcrap where as the ACC needed another team. I honestly dont care where they play except for the fact that they can nab a CFP spot without having to play in a conference championship game. To me that's not fair, though they usually get stomped out.

[Z-Fly]

I don't think the B1G makes that much sense for ND. I get what you guys are saying, and you aren't wrong, but you are missing some important parts.

- They can make basically the same money and not have to answer to other teams.
* There will always be someone that will let ND park their Olympic sports for a few home and home FB games.
* They would now beholden to a pretty sizeable exit fee.
* Teams are still lining up to play them.

- If you take Ohio State out of the B1G, is it really that great of a league?
* It would be better than most, and probably a clear number two, but it would still be far below the SEC.
* Maybe Ohio State goes to the SEC
* Maybe ND wants to go with them, if that happens.

I know B1G fans want ND, because it would be good for them. What does it really do for them though? Almost any B1G team would sign up for a home and home with them anyways.

[BuckeyeRed27]

But that’s the thing, they can’t make basically the same amount of money. They are hoping to get $75M. The Big Ten is going to be north of $100M. Is it worth $25-50M, maybe more?

[Z-Fly]

They also get money from the ACC too. It's probably not $25M, but I'm guessing around $7M.

My guess, the answer to your question is yes. If Ohio State decides to bolt, the league is much less desirable. Again, the exit fee, the control, the knowns. It doesn't seem like they need the money either. Now if the B1G and PAC teams stop scheduling games with them, or they have less access to the playoffs, I'm guessing it's a different conversation. It's probably best to wait and see, because that call can be made pretty much at any time. Not to mention they'll have to buy out of a number of previously scheduled games.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ohio State isn’t going to bolt and everyone needs money, just ask USC.

[Z-Fly]

Texas and Oklahoma weren't going to Bolt
USC and UCLA weren't going to Bolt

If everyone needs the money as you say, then it's just a matter of time for Ohio State.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Big Ten makes as much and possibly soon more than the SEC. Those schools left because their conferences didn’t read the room and fell way way behind on TV money and couldn’t catch up.

[Z-Fly]

I've heard different about the SEC vs B1G money, but luckily we'll get to find out for sure soon enough.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I've heard different about the SEC vs B1G money, but luckily we'll get to find out for sure soon enough.

https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/navigate-big-ten-sec-payouts-power-five.html

These were projections done before USC and UCLA joined. Starts with current deals and projects per team revenue.

[Z-Fly]

I believe that's what I saw too. To over simplify it, UCLA and USC would have to be worth more than the per team payout to add additional $$/team. My guess is they are probably right around that number, so they wouldn't add any revenue per team nor take any away. I could be way off. Again, just my guess.

So in 2029 there is about a $10M/year difference. If OSU were to come over, that's probably at least another $10M/team the SEC could tack on in TV money. If it's all about the money, like you say, I turn the question to you. Why wouldn't OSU do that?

[RedTeamGo!]

OSU ain't leaving the Big Ten lmao

[Assembly Hall]

The ACC speaks:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/acc-media-days-2022-jim-phillips-says-everything-is-on-the-table-amid-changing-college-football-landscape/

[BuckeyeRed27]

I believe that's what I saw too. To over simplify it, UCLA and USC would have to be worth more than the per team payout to add additional $$/team. My guess is they are probably right around that number, so they wouldn't add any revenue per team nor take any away. I could be way off. Again, just my guess.

So in 2029 there is about a $10M/year difference. If OSU were to come over, that's probably at least another $10M/team the SEC could tack on in TV money. If it's all about the money, like you say, I turn the question to you. Why wouldn't OSU do that?

I didn’t say it’s all about the money, I said everyone needs money. A $10M or so difference when you are talking about $100M+ isn’t going to motivate anyone. This is all happening because the PAC and Big 12 were going to be $40M plus a year off with no plan or options on how to close that gap.

[Chip R]

OSU ain't leaving the Big Ten lmao

Nobody thought USC and UCLA would leave the PAC 12 either. For the Big 10 nonetheless.

[Assembly Hall]

Nobody thought USC and UCLA would leave the PAC 12 either. For the Big 10 nonetheless.

Ummm, actually there were pundits that brought up USC and UCLA leaving a few years back and joining the B1G.

[Z-Fly]

I didn’t say it’s all about the money, I said everyone needs money. A $10M or so difference when you are talking about $100M+ isn’t going to motivate anyone. This is all happening because the PAC and Big 12 were going to be $40M plus a year off with no plan or options on how to close that gap.

Again, same debate. I found a post from a different board. ND actually got north of $15M from the ACC. So the difference is less than $10M to go to the B1G.

I pulled this form the csnbbs board. CliftonAve was the poster.

I did a little more digging and Notre Dame received $10.8M from the ACC for the Olympic sports. https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2022/05/...e-football

They also receive a $5M share of the ACC Network and share in their bowl revenues. When Notre Dame went to the CFP they got to keep all of the $6M for appearing in the semi-final. Add it all up and it is roughly $100M.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristidosh/...ayoff/amp/

[Sea Ray]

Again, same debate. I found a post from a different board. ND actually got north of $15M from the ACC. So the difference is less than $10M to go to the B1G.

I pulled this form the csnbbs board. CliftonAve was the poster.

I did a little more digging and Notre Dame received $10.8M from the ACC for the Olympic sports. https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2022/05/...e-football

They also receive a $5M share of the ACC Network and share in their bowl revenues. When Notre Dame went to the CFP they got to keep all of the $6M for appearing in the semi-final. Add it all up and it is roughly $100M.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristidosh/...ayoff/amp/

Neither link works. I'd like to see how ND gets up to $100 mill. I'd be amazed if the ACC shared Bowl revenue with ND but ND didn't have to share their Bowl revenue with them

[Z-Fly]

Ummm, actually there were pundits that brought up USC and UCLA leaving a few years back and joining the B1G.

I've heard/read the same about Ohio State to the SEC. It wasn't an original thought by me. It always seems unlikely, until it happens. Just like USC/UCLA to the B1G. I actually think Ohio State to the SEC actually makes more sense than the other moves that have happened. Doesn't mean it will happen though, obviously.

I wish conferences would have stayed regional. Long time rivals and close road games are what make college football so great. It frustrating that those are going out the window, but cash is king.

[Sea Ray]

I can't imagine any team voluntarily leaving the Big Ten. There's no richer conference going

[Z-Fly]

Neither link works. I'd like to see how ND gets up to $100 mill. I'd be amazed if the ACC shared Bowl revenue with ND but ND didn't have to share their Bowl revenue with them

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristidosh/2020/12/21/acc-and-sec-big-winners-financially-in-2020-21-college-football-playoff/amp/
https://www.si.com/.amp/college/2022/05/21/acc-record-revenue-notre-dame-football

They probably won't, but they'll likely be pretty close.

Also the projections posted earlier shows the SEC will likely have the higher payouts in the near future.

[RedTeamGo!]

I've heard/read the same about Ohio State to the SEC.

Link?

I am a big OSU fan and have never heard that said.

[Z-Fly]

Link?

I am a big OSU fan and have never heard that said.

https://scarletandgame.com/2021/07/27/rumor-ohio-state-michigan-contacted-joining-sec/

"According to Jack McGuire of Barstool Sports, the SEC has reached out to Ohio State and Michigan about possibly joining the conference."

https://www.si.com/college/georgia/news/ohio-state-florida-state-clemson-michigan-sec-

"Programs like Ohio State, Florida State, Michigan and Clemson have been in contact with the SEC, according to reports. "

[RedTeamGo!]

According to Jack McGuire of Barstool Sports,

:laugh:

The source for both of these links is the same dude from….hahahahaha….barstool sports.

[gonelong]

Also the projections posted earlier shows the SEC will likely have the higher payouts in the near future.

I don't think we will see OSU move to the SEC now, or anytime soon - but they would certainly be one of the handful of teams that would add significant value for that league and could actually boost per-team value/payoff for media rights.

[bucksfan2]

I've heard/read the same about Ohio State to the SEC. It wasn't an original thought by me. It always seems unlikely, until it happens. Just like USC/UCLA to the B1G. I actually think Ohio State to the SEC actually makes more sense than the other moves that have happened. Doesn't mean it will happen though, obviously.

I wish conferences would have stayed regional. Long time rivals and close road games are what make college football so great. It frustrating that those are going out the window, but cash is king.

I have never heard any credible OSU reporter give credence to those rumors. And to be honest, OSU football probably has the largest beat of any college sport.

OSU has been loyal to a fault to the B1G. The only talk I heard about them leaving was the idea of them going independent. They have carried the conference for a few decades now.

Jim Delaney, the former B1G commissioner, the guy who launched the Big Ten Network and brought in Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers, had talked about a conference that stretched from coast to coast. Delaney was also the guy who negotiated a shorter tv contract the last time putting them in the drivers seat for the current tv contract.

I an waiting to see what the next domino to fall is, and it isn't going to be OSU to the SEC. There is a chance the SEC raids the ACC leaving ND with a choice, do they go to the B1G, do they go to the SEC, or do they remain independent and get whatever paltry money they can from any ACC deal.

FWIW, I think had the Pac10 and Big12 joined forces, you would have a legit argument for three power conferences. In the next 5-10 years it will be the B1G and SEC followed by everyone else.

[Boss-Hog]

I don't think anyone's raiding the ACC with their grant of rights. Short of a mass exodus by their most desirable teams (Clemson, Florida State, UNC, VT, etc) that ends the conference as a whole (and thus the GoR), that's going to either be what keeps the conference together or kills it due to the revenue discrepency relative to the B1G/SEC.


In the next 5-10 years it will be the B1G and SEC followed by everyone else.

I think that's the case right now.

[GoReds]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-players-group-talks-with-big-ten-commissioner-kevin-warren-demands-include-share-of-revenue/

The ultimate game changer. The amount of money distributed to the players is going to have a huge effect on where the players decide to sign. And who is in the best position to offer the most money?

[Assembly Hall]

Cardinal, Ducks, Huskies, and Bears...oh my!

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-evaluating-cal-oregon-stanford-and-washington-from-pac-12-as-further-expansion-considered/

[Sea Ray]

Tennessee is named #1 for its fight song, Rocky Top

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/10/10-best-fight-songs-in-college-football

[BuckeyeRed27]

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/18/big-ten-announces-new-media-tv-rights-deal-kevin-warren

Big Ten media rights deal has been officially announced. Between $7-8B for the next 7 years. Depending on bowl game and NCAA tournament payouts it’s about $100M per school a year. No ESPN officially.

Fox will carry a noon game, CBS will have the 330 game and NBC will have prime time. Rest of the games will be on FS1, BTN and Peacock.

Kevin Warren also all but confirmed that the Big Ten isn’t done expanding also.

[KronoRed]

SEC outmaneuvered? big10+ will be on all the networks while the SEC will be on one.

[Assembly Hall]

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/18/big-ten-announces-new-media-tv-rights-deal-kevin-warren

Big Ten media rights deal has been officially announced. Between $7-8B for the next 7 years. Depending on bowl game and NCAA tournament payouts it’s about $100M per school a year. No ESPN officially.

Fox will carry a noon game, CBS will have the 330 game and NBC will have prime time. Rest of the games will be on FS1, BTN and Peacock.

Kevin Warren also all but confirmed that the Big Ten isn’t done expanding also.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-reaches-seven-year-media-rights-deal-with-cbs-fox-and-nbc-for-football-basketball-through-2029-30/

[Chip R]

The College Football Playoff board of managers met to discuss possible restructuring in how college football is governed.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34414293/college-football-playoff-board-discusses-possibility-potential-restructuring-how-college-football-governed-sources-say

[Sea Ray]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-ten-reaches-seven-year-media-rights-deal-with-cbs-fox-and-nbc-for-football-basketball-through-2029-30/

What's in it for the Big Ten to expand more? Is there a clause that would increase the payout if expansion happens? Otherwise it just waters down the deal as they'll have to split it among more teams

The Big Ten has a product that no other conference can offer due to their cornering the top 3 media markets.

[bucksfan2]

What's in it for the Big Ten to expand more? Is there a clause that would increase the payout if expansion happens? Otherwise it just waters down the deal as they'll have to split it among more teams

The Big Ten has a product that no other conference can offer due to their cornering the top 3 media markets.

There has to be a clause written into the contract. Also there has to be some kind of handshake deal for more inventory.

I don't know how the "draft" will go, but OSU v Michigan will continue to be on Fox at Noon. Then you either have OSU V PSU or OSU v USC or OSU v MSU down the chain of networks.

I wonder if there also is an agreement that the west coast teams do not have home games in the Big Noon window.

[Boston Red]

What's in it for the Big Ten to expand more?

Killing more of the competition (Pac-12....err 10 again, ACC, Big 12/16/howevermany) seems to be the only motivation left for expansion. They need to be careful with that so that Lina Khan doesn't get involved.

[BuckeyeRed27]

There is a clause that the payout increases if there is more expansion.

Gene Smith had an interview yesterday where they are talking about eliminating divisions and going to 10 conference games, but that seemed a little contingent on more expansion. Basically if they have 20 teams they don’t want to have as many non conference games and it’s easier to sell the inventory to networks if they know it’ll be a conference game and not Ohio State v Akron or whatever.

[bucksfan2]

There is a clause that the payout increases if there is more expansion.

Gene Smith had an interview yesterday where they are talking about eliminating divisions and going to 10 conference games, but that seemed a little contingent on more expansion. Basically if they have 20 teams they don’t want to have as many non conference games and it’s easier to sell the inventory to networks if they know it’ll be a conference game and not Ohio State v Akron or whatever.

Gene Smith may be the most important figure in all of these negotiations. I think OSU's (and maybe USC's) goals are to compete for a national championship each and every season. While other teams may pay lip service to that, its not an annual thing at a place like Michigan or PSU. That said, how does Smith steer the B1G in the playoff expansion and broadcasting talks. There is absolutely no way that the B1G wants only ESPN to have the rights. Will new negotiations give FOX more power in the college football landscape. I don't think the B1G likes how much power the SEC has had over the past few years, will that begin to shift?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Gene Smith may be the most important figure in all of these negotiations. I think OSU's (and maybe USC's) goals are to compete for a national championship each and every season. While other teams may pay lip service to that, its not an annual thing at a place like Michigan or PSU. That said, how does Smith steer the B1G in the playoff expansion and broadcasting talks. There is absolutely no way that the B1G wants only ESPN to have the rights. Will new negotiations give FOX more power in the college football landscape. I don't think the B1G likes how much power the SEC has had over the past few years, will that begin to shift?

ESPN isn’t going to be the only network for the playoffs at some point. They might have to wait until the contract is up, but whenever it happens at least Fox will get involved and if it’s a 12 or 16 team playoff, probably CBS and NBC too. Just too much money involved and ESPN won’t be able to afford to have it all to themselves.

[Assembly Hall]

Interesting read on B1G expansion: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/where-should-the-big-ten-expand-next-we-crunched-the-numbers/

[GAC]

Whelp, here we go. Again. So, let's ignore the reams of contracts and some of the politics that will need ironed out between here and there, because we're clearly going there and it's only a matter of how much time it takes to get there. The consensus is that we're staring down two super conferences and then... who knows? But, I think there is a way to cobble up everything else into somewhat of a coherent third large conference, though far less "super" than what the B1G and SEC are about to become. The good news for UC fans is, I think the current life raft situation remains afloat, at least compared to the fates of every school not left standing in the remaining three. And I do think it will be three conferences instead of two to form the latest iteration of Division 1-A, even if it's a two-horse race. Three conferences will smooth over the concerns of the Congress critters and statehouses, and it leaves a larger pool of teams for out-of-conference games. So, here's how I build out the three super conferences:

B1G goes to 24 schools by adding: USC, UCLA (both confirmed already), Stanford, Cal, Washington and Oregon, leaving a west coast nucleus of the highest value programs. They also add Notre Dame (it's now or never for them), UVA, UNC and Duke. The PAC-12 dissolves.

SEC goes to 20 schools by adding: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and VaTech. I had debated Georgia Tech instead for a number of reasons, but the Hokies fit the cultural profile better, and the SEC already owns Atlanta.

The Third Conference Whose Name Doesn't Matter will then consist of all the current Big XII schools, the remnants of the ACC and the PAC-12 minus Oregon State and Washington State, and adding Memphis. This results in 24 schools that "cleanly" divide up geographically into four pods of six schools (heavily motivated by my desire to reassemble the old Big East gang):

- Pod 1 (Northeast): BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, UC, and Louisville
- Pod 2 (Southeast): NC State, Georgia Tech, UCF, Houston, Wake Forest and Memphis
- Pod 3 (basically the OG Big XII): Baylor, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, and TCU
- Pod 4 (Mountains): Texas Tech, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, and Colorado

Memphis gets the lifeline of a century by virtue of geography, fanbase, and financial commitments towards facilities. Oregon State and Washington State take it in the shorts big time and emerge the biggest losers in the last four decades of realignment. The 3CWNDM is looking at a $50M less in media revenue each year compared to the B1G and the SEC, but they will be able to keep the lights on.

There ya go. 68 schools make it "in", all others are told to kiss the ring and kindly leave.

Alabama will still end up in the championship game! LOL

[Boston Red]

Not sure either Nebraska or Northwestern have been particularly impressive today.

[Boston Red]

Frost fired by November 1?

[WVRed]

Frost fired by November 1?

If not earlier.

Don’t know where Nebraska could go. Frost was probably the best chance they had to get back to relevancy and they managed to screw that up.

Edit: Just read his buyout drops to 7.5 million on October 1st. He will be gone after that date. Book it.

[kaldaniels]

https://www.al.com/resizer/Oaovi57oW2TMbiP7j0m2QmbzSRM=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/GDM7ZY64Y5D3VAEG6L4H34H4CY.JPG

[KronoRed]

Frost fired by November 1?

Why bother at this point? Frost is worst then Pelini, who was worse then Solich.

They should call it a day and give up.

[GAC]

Not sure either Nebraska or Northwestern have been particularly impressive today.

I thought that NU had a few players shine yesterday. Their QB Hilinski (S.C. transfer) threw for 314 Yds, 2 TDs, QBR 91.7. And I loved both of their RBs Hull (22/119 Yds) and Porter (19/94 Yds). I thought NU's offensive line did a pretty solid job. Offense/scoring points has been HC Fitzgerald's problem. They looked pretty good yesterday; but it was vs a Nebraska team led by a HC whose been given too long of a rope (IMO).

Both of these teams were 3-9 last year. I think NU may better that this year. Not so sure about the Cornhuskers, but they have a couple cupcake games the next two weeks before taking on Oklahoma. I can't believe how far a program like Nebraska has fallen.

[GAC]

What's in it for the Big Ten to expand more? Is there a clause that would increase the payout if expansion happens? Otherwise it just waters down the deal as they'll have to split it among more teams

The Big Ten has a product that no other conference can offer due to their cornering the top 3 media markets.

True. But one can't sit on their hands. One can always, and should strive, to do better. Dog eat dog.

IMO, in the end, when the dust settles, there will be two super conferences. It'll be like in MLB with an AL and NL and sub-divisions (LOL).

[Assembly Hall]

I thought that NU had a few players shine yesterday. Their QB Hilinski (S.C. transfer) threw for 314 Yds, 2 TDs, QBR 91.7. And I loved both of their RBs Hull (22/119 Yds) and Porter (19/94 Yds). I thought NU's offensive line did a pretty solid job. Offense/scoring points has been HC Fitzgerald's problem. They looked pretty good yesterday; but it was vs a Nebraska team led by a HC whose been given too long of a rope (IMO).

Both of these teams were 3-9 last year. I think NU may better that this year. Not so sure about the Cornhuskers, but they have a couple cupcake games the next two weeks before taking on Oklahoma. I can't believe how far a program like Nebraska has fallen.

I was very impressed with Northwestern's offense even though it was against Nebraska.

As far as Frost? He better go on a long winning streak asap.

[RedTeamGo!]

https://www.al.com/resizer/Oaovi57oW2TMbiP7j0m2QmbzSRM=/1280x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/advancelocal/GDM7ZY64Y5D3VAEG6L4H34H4CY.JPG

This is legit embarrassing for ESPN

[GAC]

This is legit embarrassing for ESPN

Des is so laughable it's laughable. Me thinks the Wolverine's '21 season went to his head. He figures if he keeps predicting a Wolverine championship he'll hit on it sooner or later (lol).

[bucksfan2]

Des is so laughable it's laughable. Me thinks the Wolverine's '21 season went to his head. He figures if he keeps predicting a Wolverine championship he'll hit on it sooner or later (lol).

ESPN has always had an OSU troll. Guys who make it their schtick and then run with it. Lets be honest, OSU has probably the biggest fanbase and the loudest fan base. First it was Trev Alberts, then Mark May, and now Desmond Howard. What drives OSU fans nuts at times is they give a "heel" airtime but then you have Herbstreit or Galloway who are pretty impartial.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don’t even think this particular thing with Des is his anti OSU schtick. Michigan could make the playoffs, that’s not crazy.

But having one of your analysts go out and predict Pitt? Or you are going to have one SEC team and it’s gonna be A&M? Baylor?

[RedTeamGo!]

I don’t even think this particular thing with Des is his anti OSU schtick. Michigan could make the playoffs, that’s not crazy.

But having one of your analysts go out and predict Pitt? Or you are going to have one SEC team and it’s gonna be A&M? Baylor?

Yeah, I honestly wasn't even looking at that from an OSU perspective. The other three teams are more absurd than Michigan.

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, I honestly wasn't even looking at that from an OSU perspective. The other three teams are more absurd than Michigan.

Texas A&M has far more talent than Michigan

[RedTeamGo!]

Texas A&M has far more talent than Michigan

Yeah but TAMU doesn't play in the B1G and have Michigan's ridiculously easy OOC schedule.

Michigan's schedule:
Colorado St
Hawaii
UCONN
Maryland
Iowa
Indiana
Penn State
MSU
Rutgers
Nebraska
Illinois
Ohio State

Have Penn State and Michigan State in Ann Arbor.

Basically, Michigan has to beat OSU on the road to get back to the playoff. That's it. Easiest schedule in America.

TAMU's schedule:

Sam Houston St (lol)
App State
Miami (FL)
Arkansas
Miss St
Bama
South Carolina
Ole Miss
Florida
Auburn
UMASS
LSU

Not a great schedule, but they ain't beating Bama in Tuscaloosa and there are definitely some games on there that can (and will) trip them up.

Also, gun to my head - I cannot tell you who TAMU's QB is.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don’t have a problem with him picking A&M either. You can make a case for them upsetting Bama and nothing else is brutal in their schedule. It’s more them being the only SEC team in that scenario. That means they beat both Bama and Georgia and that both of those teams are now somehow viewed below teams like Baylor and Pitt. What in recent college football history would indicate that is remotely possible?

[Sea Ray]

Yeah but TAMU doesn't play in the B1G and have Michigan's ridiculously easy OOC schedule.

Michigan's schedule:
Colorado St
Hawaii
UCONN
Maryland
Iowa
Indiana
Penn State
MSU
Rutgers
Nebraska
Illinois
Ohio State

Have Penn State and Michigan State in Ann Arbor.

Basically, Michigan has to beat OSU on the road to get back to the playoff. That's it. Easiest schedule in America.

TAMU's schedule:

Sam Houston St (lol)
App State
Miami (FL)
Arkansas
Miss St
Bama
South Carolina
Ole Miss
Florida
Auburn
UMASS
LSU

Not a great schedule, but they ain't beating Bama in Tuscaloosa and there are definitely some games on there that can (and will) trip them up.

Also, gun to my head - I cannot tell you who TAMU's QB is.

Absolutely. I was going to mention the easy Big Ten schedule but you know how that goes around here...

[RedTeamGo!]

Absolutely. I was going to mention the easy Big Ten schedule but you know how that goes around here...

Not all big ten schedules are created equally. They can be tough, Michigan’s is a cakewalk this year.

[Sea Ray]

Not all big ten schedules are created equally. They can be tough, Michigan’s is a cakewalk this year.

It goes without saying that Big Ten schedules vary, we all get that but Michigan has far more Big Ten games than OOC games

[BuckeyeRed27]

Not all big ten schedules are created equally. They can be tough, Michigan’s is a cakewalk this year.

Michigan was supposed to play UCLA this year instead of Hawaii, but that got canceled for whatever reason a couple years ago.

[Boston Red]

Speaking of Hawaii, just noticed they lost 63-10 to Vandy. They must be unusually bad even by Hawaii standards this year.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Speaking of Hawaii, just noticed they lost 63-10 to Vandy. They must be unusually bad even by Hawaii standards this year.

It is too early to rule out this being Vandys year?

[cumberlandreds]

It is too early to rule out this being Vandys year?

It's never their year.:)

[bucksfan2]

Re Michigan. I can see this season turning south after a promising start. The QB decision needs to be made, and quickly. I don't see them having three first round draft picks on the defense again, let alone the #1 overall defensive player. And to be honest, I just don't know how much Harbaugh has changed. It worked last year, their ground and pound, but its not a recipe for success longterm in college football.

It sounds crazy, but with their schedule, if they are anything worse than 10-1 heading into OSU it would be an underachievement.

[Revering4Blue]

Speaking of Hawaii, just noticed they lost 63-10 to Vandy. They must be unusually bad even by Hawaii standards this year.

Watched most of that game. My observations, FWIW:

Under new coach Timmy Chang, they are transitioning back to a run and shoot attack but don’t yet have the personnel to do so. Given that, they’re running a multiple one back Jack-of-all-trades ( master of none so far) offense with dismal results.

That said, their defense is ghastly (again, so far). Vandy rolled up over 600 yards of offense. Vandy QB Mike Wright is a special player. He’s a true dual threat. They haven’t had such a qb in what seems forever.


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[Revering4Blue]

Re Michigan. I can see this season turning south after a promising start. The QB decision needs to be made, and quickly. I don't see them having three first round draft picks on the defense again, let alone the #1 overall defensive player. And to be honest, I just don't know how much Harbaugh has changed. It worked last year, their ground and pound, but its not a recipe for success longterm in college football.

It sounds crazy, but with their schedule, if they are anything worse than 10-1 heading into OSU it would be an underachievement.

Agreed.

As I understand it, they’re moving away from spread principles with the departure of Josh Gattis to Miami as OC. We’ll see.

I also find it odd that they are starting one qb Saturday and another the next week. I’m ok with playing two qbs - especially if their skillsets are diversified and you don’t telegraph plays - but alternating starters?


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[GAC]

It goes without saying that Big Ten schedules vary, we all get that but Michigan has far more Big Ten games than OOC games

Every team has far more conference games then OOC games. ;)

[RedTeamGo!]

Every team has far more conference games then OOC games. ;)

Ha, yeah, I was about to respond to that post and just decided to shrug and move on with my day

[bucksfan2]

Agreed.

As I understand it, they’re moving away from spread principles with the departure of Josh Gattis to Miami as OC. We’ll see.

I also find it odd that they are starting one qb Saturday and another the next week. I’m ok with playing two qbs - especially if their skillsets are diversified and you don’t telegraph plays - but alternating starters?


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They never really moved away from Harbaugh's brand of football. Gattis gets a lot of credit for last season, but it was the same ground and pound you are used to see with them.

I don't mean to shortchange what they did last year, but it was a season where everything aligned for them. They caught OSU in a transition year on their defense and couple that with an inept DC. What they were good at, pounding downhill attack, great edge rushers and a 1st round pick in the back end, matched up very well against OSU. Michigan is a program that every 5 years or so should make it to the OSU game with a chance to win out and make it to the playoffs. They did that and caught OSU at the right time.

The QB thing is interesting. JJ McCarthy was a QB Ryan Day looked at as a recruit. He is a guy who most feel is the far more dangerous option. McNamera is a Harbaugh QB through and through. I just don't see Jimmy moving off of him this year. It seems like a move by Harbaugh to keep McCarthy in the program for another season.

[RedTeamGo!]

It seems like a move by Harbaugh to keep McCarthy in the program for another season.

This is exactly what I think is going on

[Sea Ray]

Every team has far more conference games then OOC games. ;)

Exactly. If you only have on tough in conference game then your easy schedule is due to your conference and that goes for every conference

[GAC]

Exactly. If you only have on tough in conference game then your easy schedule is due to your conference and that goes for every conference

Don't know of too many teams, who are considered "upper tier" in their respective conference, a team considered in the conversation for a national championship, who only have one tough in-conference game on their schedule.

[Boston Red]

Don't know of too many teams, who are considered "upper tier" in their respective conference, a team considered in the conversation for a national championship, who only have one tough in-conference game on their schedule.

Right. Clemson sometimes had zero, though.

[GAC]

Right. Clemson sometimes had zero, though.

Clemson, like Alabama and Ohio State reigned in their respective conferences, did likewise in the ACC conference. They had seasons where they had no tough in-conference games on their schedule? None?

While I certainly acknowledge it's not out of the realm of possibility, looking at the way conference scheduling is anymore, it's kind of rare isn't it‽

[Chip R]

Playoff expansion in 2024? Stay tuned on Friday.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34497744/sources-cfp-board-managers-meet-momentum-playoff-expansion

[Sea Ray]

This opening game for Tennessee is fun...:D

[Assembly Hall]

Purdue's miscues costing them dearly thus far.

[Sea Ray]

When I saw the 35 pt spread I wondered if Tennessee could cover. As it turned out they had no problem covering. They had it covered by halftime. Nice to see Neyland so full and enthusiastic. The defense will be a concern all season. Pitt next before playing another MAC team.

- - - Updated - - -


Purdue's miscues costing them dearly thus far.

Didn't see any of the game but did see that it was back and forth. What did you see?

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Backyard Brawl needs to be played every year. I’m generally for the conference expansion stuff that has occurred, but losing games like that is awful. That game and atmosphere was awesome.

[Assembly Hall]

Didn't see any of the game but did see that it was back and forth. What did you see?

I saw Purdue piss one away.

[KronoRed]

The Backyard Brawl needs to be played every year. I’m generally for the conference expansion stuff that has occurred, but losing games like that is awful. That game and atmosphere was awesome.

Probably get it every year when the bones of the acc and big 12 become conference 3.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Probably get it every year when the bones of the acc and big 12 become conference 3.

Maybe. The ACC media stuff seems pretty legit, so for now at least I don’t see anyone leaving. If the Big 12 and PAC 12 merge, West Virginia could be a potential ACC add.

[Chip R]

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1565776097274236928?t=Ic_8Sv1nPDzrIXIZzgN-GA&s=19

[RedTeamGo!]

https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1565776097274236928?t=Ic_8Sv1nPDzrIXIZzgN-GA&s=19

Just in case people dont want to click on a twitter link:


Sources: The CFP Board of Managers has decided on a 12-team College Football Playoff during today's meeting.