8-9-22 Reds @ Mets 7:10

[Ron Madden]

Reds
1. Jonathan India (R) 2B
2. Nick Senzel (R) CF
3. Kyle Farmer (R) 3B
4. Joey Votto (L) 1B
5. Donovan Solano (R) DH
6. Aristides Aquino (R) RF
7. Jake Fraley (L) LF
8. Jose Barrero (R) SS
9. Austin Romine (R) C
SP Mike Minor (L)

Mets
1. Mark Canha (R) CF
2. Starling Marte (R) RF
3. Francisco Lindor (S) SS
4. Pete Alonso (R) DH
5. Darin Ruf (R) 1B
6. Jeff McNeil (L) LF
7. Eduardo Escobar (S) 3B
8. Luis Guillorme (L) 2B
9. Tomas Nido (R) C
SP Carlos Carrasco (R)

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[Ron Madden]

Bobby Nightengale
@nightengalejr

Reds notebook: T.J. Zeuch will pitch Wednesday for his hometown team;

David Bell says they'll look for different spots to use Hunter Strickland;

Jeff Hoffman, on the 15-day IL, will be examined in Cincy because his arm is still bothering him.

[Sea Ray]

The only legit MLB starter in that Reds lineup is India. Five of those guys wouldn't even make most MLB rosters. Having said that, I'll still watch it...

[LeatherPants]

Really wish they'd let India heal up, it's a lost season and there's no reason to go out there on one leg.

[KeefeCato]

The only legit MLB starter in that Reds lineup is India. Five of those guys wouldn't even make most MLB rosters. Having said that, I'll still watch it...

False. Votto would start for several teams as would Solano. Barrero would on non contenders.

[Sea Ray]

False. Votto would start for several teams as would Solano. Barrero would on non contenders.

So that makes them "legit starters"? I'll grant you that those guys would start for some MLB teams

[Ron Madden]

C. Trent Rosecrans
@ctrent

Jonathan India back in the Reds' lineup, leading off.

That could change based on pregame work, but it's good news for now

[KeefeCato]

So that makes them "legit starters"? I'll grant you that those guys would start for some MLB teams

Someone who would start for several teams . To me that makes them a legit starter.

[ShyGuy]

I thought last night we might see a Mets team taking their foot off the pedal a little but not such. Even so getting those insurance runs in the 9th inning last night. They are gonna be a force to be reckoned with.


Splitting the two games between tonight and tomorrow afternoon isn't looking so bad

[Reds Fanatic]

Tonight’s game is going to be delayed by rain

[cumberlandreds]

Tonight’s game is going to be delayed by rain

Boooooooo!!!!!!!!

[TheBigLebowski]

Someone who would start for several teams . To me that makes them a legit starter.

I don’t know of too many teams that would start Votto. Solano is dicey too.

In fact, I can’t think of any teams that would start 2022 Votto over what they already have.

[Ironman92]

Go Reds

[Ironman92]

First pitch will be at 8:04:36

Go Reds!

[PuffyPig]

I don’t know of too many teams that would start Votto. Solano is dicey too.

In fact, I can’t think of any teams that would start 2022 Votto over what they already have.

You need to think harder.

While Votto doesn’t have quite enough PA’s to qualify, he would rank 15th in MLB in OPS among first baseman.


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[mhs95_06]

Votto got the pitch he was envisioning when he was working on hitting earlier today and wishes he had it back since it fell 6' short of a 2-0 lead for the Reds.

[mbgrayson]

The only legit MLB starter in that Reds lineup is India. Five of those guys wouldn't even make most MLB rosters. Having said that, I'll still watch it...
This is just a trolling comment. One could argue that Senzel, Farmer, and Votto would join India starting for many major league teams. You just posted this to start arguments.....

[Sassy Sal]

This is just a trolling comment. One could argue that Senzel, Farmer, and Votto would join India starting for many major league teams. You just posted this to start arguments.....

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This is just a trolling comment. One could argue that Senzel, Farmer, and Votto would join India starting for many major league teams. You just posted this to start arguments.....

Sounds like a frustration comment to me, but just my perception.

[Tadasimha]

Minor gets into and then pitches out of trouble.

[Regulus]

Did I hear that right - Brantley thinks the Mets organization started in "the late 60's"?? ETA: AND Tommy Thrall has no idea when they started?

[Ironman92]

Just caught up to live tv

Great at bat by Farmer, great swing by Votto and Solano…rest have looked bad.

Barrero looks to athletic to be on this team lol….he’s going to see those sliders until he adjusts. Yes some sub par pitchers will miss over the plate snd he’ll deposit some of those, but would love a 2 strike swing like Farmer, Votto and Solano did in their first AB’s (I know Votto and Solano didn’t have two strikes…but swing was willing to drive oppo)

[InsaneinthBrame]

You just saw why Barroro will never be a good hitter he cannot hit the slider. The book is out on him he will chase slider and is not able to hit it.

He showed that in the majors before and our announcers just said that is why he struggled in AAA.

He plate discipline numbers in fan graphs is aweful. He was swing at over 57% of balls out of the strike zone He is worse than Aquino.

[Kingspoint]

We got a new Catcher!

And, he can reach 1st Base!

[OldFashionedRed]

The more I watch India, the more I feel he's not a leadoff hitter. Not enough plate discipline, and lately I feel his body language isn't good.

[Sassy Sal]

When Minor is missing, he's missing by a foot.

[Kingspoint]

When Minor is missing, he's missing by a foot.

Should the missing Minor be placed on a milk carton?

[OldFashionedRed]

Minor doing major damage.

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Minor is trying to throw to spots. That's a no-go.

[redsfan9988]

Turns out, Amir Garrett is more valuable than Mike Minor because Amir pitches fewer innings.

[klw]

I don’t know of too many teams that would start Votto. Solano is dicey too.

In fact, I can’t think of any teams that would start 2022 Votto over what they already have.

Pretty much every team would have loved 2021 Votto which would have bought him a grace period to work out his bad start this year.

[Titanicstruggle]

Did I hear that right - Brantley thinks the Mets organization started in "the late 60's"?? ETA: AND Tommy Thrall has no idea when they started?

When did they start? 1962?


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[KeefeCato]

When did they start? 1962?


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Yes Astros and Mets 62.

[OldFashionedRed]

Pretty much every team would have loved 2021 Votto which would have bought him a grace period to work out his bad start this year.

He had a good 2021 year, but he's THIRTY EIGHT years old. We all "love Joey", but it's not like he's 30 years old and "just having a bad year in 2022". It's time for him to split 1B time with someone else.

[Kingspoint]

Did I hear that right - Brantley thinks the Mets organization started in "the late 60's"?? ETA: AND Tommy Thrall has no idea when they started?

...and George Washington was President during the Civil War.

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He had a good 2021 year, but he's THIRTY EIGHT years old. We all "love Joey", but it's not like he's 30 years old and "just having a bad year in 2022". It's time for him to split 1B time with someone else.

Absolutely.

[redsfan9988]

He had a good 2021 year, but he's THIRTY EIGHT years old. We all "love Joey", but it's not like he's 30 years old and "just having a bad year in 2022". It's time for him to split 1B time with someone else.

The guy hit a HR in 8-straight games a calendar year ago. In his last 50 games, he has an .800 OPS.

[Kingspoint]

When did they start? 1962?


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and the great Casey Stengel was their Manager.

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The guy hit a HR in 8-straight games a calendar year ago. In his last 50 games, he has an .800 OPS.

He still should be splitting time at 1B. Having an "upside" of .800 OPS at 1B is not a good thing.

[cumberlandreds]

When did they start? 1962?


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Yes

[OldFashionedRed]

Get Mike out of there lol. Put in a position player, at least we can blame it on the position :D

[50YrRedsFan]

This year has been a nightmare for Joey. I wonder if he is considering hanging them up at the end of this season. He just looks like there's no fun in it anymore after a lot his ab's.

[Sassy Sal]

and the great Casey Stengel was their Manager.

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He still should be splitting time at 1B. Having an "upside" of .800 OPS at 1B is not a good thing.

Who was the manager of the 69' Mets?

[Dawink]

Turns out, Amir Garrett is more valuable than Mike Minor because Amir pitches fewer innings.

That helps with this game right now LOL


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[Sassy Sal]

This year has been a nightmare for Joey. I wonder if he is considering hanging them up at the end of this season. He just looks like there's no fun in it anymore after his ab's.

I don't see it. Too much money on the table.

[cumberlandreds]

Who was the manager of the 69' Mets?

I know!I know! I know!

[50YrRedsFan]

The newly inducted HOF'er Gil Hodges

[OldFashionedRed]

The guy hit a HR in 8-straight games a calendar year ago. In his last 50 games, he has an .800 OPS.

He's 38 years old, and we've seen this song and dance time and time and time again. I don't let my love for a player cloud my judgement. Even a dying dog has that last pep in his step. The guy can't come off the books quick enough. I'd like to see him work with the younger guys on hitting. Maybe work with Aquino?

[redsfan9988]

He still should be splitting time at 1B. Having an "upside" of .800 OPS at 1B is not a good thing.

Don’t buy it. An .800 OPS is solid for any position. Also… split time with who? Stephenson is on the IL. Matt Reynolds? Moose? What’s the point here?

[Sassy Sal]

I know!I know! I know!

I'm sorry, that's incorrect!

[cumberlandreds]

I don't see it. Too much money on the table.

Yep. He isn't giving up $25 million.

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I'm sorry, that's incorrect!

Gil Hodges

[Sassy Sal]

The newly inducted HOF'er Gil Hodges

Very good! I wasn't born, yet, but I was just reading a piece on that team. He was brought over from the Senators for $100,000 and pitcher Bill Denehy.

[InsaneinthBrame]

Why did they think Minor was a good idea at 10M

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Another bad swing at a slider way out of the zone

[Birdman007]

I think everyone and their dog knew what Carrasco was going to throw 0-2 except for Barrero.


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[Sea Ray]

This team struggles to hit a fair ball. This is pathetic and not entertainment

[redsfan9988]

Jonathan India is having zero fun tonight.

[redsfan9988]

I’m letting Mike Minor throw 150 pitches tonight. Any objections? Earn that money, bro.

[TheBigLebowski]

You need to think harder.

While Votto doesn’t have quite enough PA’s to qualify, he would rank 15th in MLB in OPS among first baseman.


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I thought harder and my initial conclusion is unchanged. You shouldn’t cherry-pick statistics that suit your argument.

For starters, the fact that he doesn’t get enough AB’s to qualify speaks to his durability, which is normal for a guy his age.

His 1B defense is below average, he’s slow and positionally speaking, his power is below average.

Taking into account all the factors, I’m comfortable saying not many teams would start him, and I can’t definitively state he’d be a better option than what any team already has.

[mhs95_06]

Votto with a negative stretch on the Farmer throw.

[OldFashionedRed]

Don’t buy it. An .800 OPS is solid for any position. Also… split time with who? Stephenson is on the IL. Matt Reynolds? Moose? What’s the point here?

An .800 OPS is solid for any position, but that's not the point, his age is the point. The seeing eye test. He's slowed down, have you not noticed his K's? He's K'ing almost once every 3 at-bats. He's done lol. Here's his BB/SO numbers:


YEAR --- AB --- BB --- BBAVG --- SO --- SOAVG
2017 --- 559 --- 134 --- 23.9% --- 83 ---14.9%
2018 --- 503 --- 108 --- 21.5% --- 101 --- 20.1%
2019 --- 525 --- 76 --- 14.5% --- 123 --- 23.4%
2020 --- 186 --- 37 --- 19.9% --- 43 ---23.1%
2021 --- 448 --- 77 --- 17.2% --- 127 --- 28.3%
2022 --- 294 --- 43 --- 14.6% --- 90 --- 30.6%

He's trending downward, drastically.

[malcontent]

I think everyone and their dog knew what Carrasco was going to throw 0-2 except for Barrero.
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He's a two true outcomes kinda guy.

[TheBigLebowski]

Pretty much every team would have loved 2021 Votto which would have bought him a grace period to work out his bad start this year.

That’s moving the goalposts. We understand that’s why he starts here, and no one is questioning the Reds for doing it.

We’re discussing whether or not Joey Votto, present, 2022 39 y/o Joey, wouldn’t start for many teams. And I don’t know that he’d be obvious replacement for anyone.

[Kingspoint]

Votto will struggle to OPS above .700 from this day forward for the rest of his career....and that's just his Offense.

[mhs95_06]

Votto comes within 4' on that one.

[Sea Ray]

I don’t know of too many teams that would start Votto. Solano is dicey too.

In fact, I can’t think of any teams that would start 2022 Votto over what they already have.

Agreed

[malcontent]

Senzel has 4 HR in his last 378 AB (2021-2022). How do you play half your games in our joke of a park, and manage that?

[Kingspoint]

Votto should play often as a Swan Song this season, but not every day, not 70% of the time, and not more than 50% of the time at 1B. He's earned that.

He shouldn't even be on the team next season, though.

[Sea Ray]

This is just a trolling comment. One could argue that Senzel, Farmer, and Votto would join India starting for many major league teams. You just posted this to start arguments.....

I posted it because it is my opinion. That's what I do on message boards. You are free to disagree and I will refrain from arguing with you. Let's agree that I'll respect your opinion and you'll respect mine

[Kingspoint]

2021 Votto I was all in on. He did exactly what I said at the beginning of the season he would do.

2022 Votto and beyond is not a pretty sight, which I also said would happen at the beginning of the 2021 season.

It's over. The bread is moldy and needs to be thrown away.

[OldFashionedRed]

Votto should play often as a Swan Song this season, but not every day, not 70% of the time, and not more than 50% of the time at 1B. He's earned that.

He shouldn't even be on the team next season, though.

That's what any reasonable team / manager would allow. I think the Reds are just worried about ticket sales, and guys who will be angry that their crush isn't being respected for his 30% K rate. :laugh:

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I posted it because it is my opinion. That's what I do on message boards. You are free to disagree and I will refrain from arguing with you. Let's agree that I'll respect your opinion and I'll respect yours

IMO you were not trolling. The whole "trolling" card is beaten like a dead horse, people simply can't let others post opinions.

[Sea Ray]

In fairness to Votto, we don't really have a replacement for him thus he's not really blocking anyone. This is a problem and it's on Reds' management. They should have prepared for this but it's like they purposely didn't want to "push" him. For a guy his age, that's nuts

[OldFashionedRed]

Calling it now. Votto's going to grand-slammy to tie this game up :D

[OldFashionedRed]

In fairness to Votto, we don't really have a replacement for him thus he's not really blocking anyone. This is a problem and it's on Reds' management. They should have prepared for this but it's like they purposely didn't want to "push" him. For a guy his age, that's nuts

I think it's 3 things:
* he used to be great at getting on base (just can't do anything once he's there)
* he's a fan favorite
*he's VOCAL, very opinionated, we know where that could go with the media

Make him split time next year with any of the guys, and then see him off to Canada.

[mhs95_06]

An .800 OPS is solid for any position, but that's not the point, his age is the point. The seeing eye test. He's slowed down, have you not noticed his K's? He's K'ing almost once every 3 at-bats. He's done lol. Here's his BB/SO numbers:


YEAR --- AB --- BB --- BBAVG --- SO --- SOAVG
2017 --- 559 --- 134 --- 23.9% --- 83 ---14.9%
2018 --- 503 --- 108 --- 21.5% --- 101 --- 20.1%
2019 --- 525 --- 76 --- 14.5% --- 123 --- 23.4%
2020 --- 186 --- 37 --- 19.9% --- 43 ---23.1%
2021 --- 448 --- 77 --- 17.2% --- 127 --- 28.3%
2022 --- 294 --- 43 --- 14.6% --- 90 --- 30.6%

He's trending downward, drastically.

In 2017, pitchers were pitching around Joey on reputation, then 2018 they started to see he couldn't catch up with good fastballs, then after that they took more full advantage.

[Sea Ray]

I think it's 3 things:
* he used to be great at getting on base (just can't do anything once he's there)
* he's a fan favorite
*he's VOCAL, very opinionated, we know where that could go with the media

Make him split time next year with any of the guys, and then see him off to Canada.

Agreed. As to who plays there when he's not, I'd suggest Stephenson and possibly Christian Encarnacion-Strand

[Ironman92]

Fraley flexing….impressive

[Roy Tucker]

Barrero K’s at an alarming rate.

[Ironman92]

Barrero looks good at SS, love the big arm….but at the plate looks like bad bad Jonny Gomes

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Barrero K’s at an alarming rate.

The rate doesn’t bother me as much as what he’s swinging at….balls are 2 feet off plate

[OldFashionedRed]

Barrero K’s at an alarming rate.

I wonder if he's rooming with Aquino :D

Can Fraley play 1B? That was some power displayed there.

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Barrero looks good at SS, love the big arm….but at the plate looks like bad bad Jhonny Gomes

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The rate doesn’t bother me as much as what he’s swinging at….balls are 2 feet off plate

No discipline up there. I mean, I get bringing up guys and telling them they've got the rest of the season to get some swings in, but jeez....

[Sea Ray]

Barrero K’s at an alarming rate.

Wild swings at horrible pitches, reminding me of Aquino. Why would pitchers throw him anything resembling a strike?

[Ironman92]

I wonder if he's rooming with Aquino :D

Can Fraley play 1B? That was some power displayed there.

Fraley is a very good defender….he could play 1st and Votto is one of the lowest rated defensive players in the league.

[Sea Ray]

At least our Reds are showing life

[texasdave]

If striking out the side on 9 pitches is an Immaculate Inning, is a batter striking out 3 times on 9 pitches known as Immaculate Sombrero?

[mhs95_06]

Senzel with way too big of a swing for strike 2 on a middle, middle pitch setting himself up for a K. Trying to do to much! Fraley's HR went to his head and he forgot there was a fresh pitcher in.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Barrero looks good at SS, love the big arm….but at the plate looks like bad bad Jonny Gomes

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The rate doesn’t bother me as much as what he’s swinging at….balls are 2 feet off plate



Jim Croce could have had a hit with that.

[Roy Tucker]

Kuhnel not off to an auspicious start.

[mhs95_06]

Votto in "no error" mode!

[Ironman92]

Votto was NOT in fielding position on the pitch!!! Standing almost straight up, no creep, no set position ready for every possible direction.

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Votto in "no error" mode!

Re watch it and look at his pre pitch and during pitch set up….completely lazy and unassuming ball his way.

[Kingspoint]

Luis Castillo is so frickin' good!

He's so fun to watch.

[Unfortunately, Winker left last night's game with back spasms and looks to miss several games, right when he was starting to hit again and with power (I think he leads the American League in Walks) after Castillo's arrival].

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Wild swings at horrible pitches, reminding me of Aquino. Why would pitchers throw him anything resembling a strike?

I can't fathom why AA or JB would EVER get a fastball anywhere NEAR the strike zone.

[Ironman92]

This has 0 chance of ending well

[Roy Tucker]

Mets’ blue and orange uniform colors are originally from Dodger blue and Giant orange when the Mets joined the NL in 1962.

[Ironman92]

Sucks

[OldFashionedRed]

India's reaction there. A step or two behind. The inning should be over.

[Ironman92]

In better news Mikolaus for the Cardinals gave up 14 hits and 10 ER in 2 2/3 innings vs Rockies

[Roy Tucker]

India's reaction there. A step or two behind. The inning should be over.

Yeah. Kuhnel wasn’t overwhelming out there but a couple slow rollers got by India.

[Ironman92]

In other news…Jose Iglesias is hitting .318, behind only Goldy and Freeman

[Ky Fried Redleg]

In better news Mikolaus for the Cardinals gave up 14 hits and 10 ER in 2 2/3 innings vs Rockies

NICE!!!

[mhs95_06]

Votto was NOT in fielding position on the pitch!!! Standing almost straight up, no creep, no set position ready for every possible direction.

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Re watch it and look at his pre pitch and during pitch set up….completely lazy and unassuming ball his way.

You're correct, when the pitch was let go, he was standing straight up with his feet together. At about the time the ball was hit he moved his left foot to his left and his momentum was going the wrong way at the time he realized where it was hit. Then after the walk, the next hitter again takes advantage of Votto being the only defender on that right side.

[Roy Tucker]

Reds have a lot of pitchers with spring training uniform numbers.

[Ironman92]

Better get the runs in the 8th, Diaz is lights out

[mhs95_06]

India's reaction there. A step or two behind. The inning should be over.

If he got off quicker his hamstring might be popped again!

[OldFashionedRed]

I think Detwiler will be a part of the bullpen next season. No idea what his contract is. Before today, he's given up 1 run in 7 innings.

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If he got off quicker his hamstring might be popped again!

If that's the case then he's not ready to play. Right now he's a net negative on both sides of the ball. Next man up.

[Sea Ray]

I think Detwiler will be a part of the bullpen next season. No idea what his contract is. Before today, he's given up 1 run in 7 innings.

Perhaps but he's getting up there in age. He could drop off at any point

[Ironman92]

Scary…hope ump is ok

[Roy Tucker]

Scary…hope ump is ok

Looks like he’s ok but that could have been very nasty. Jagged end of the bat whirling around the neck/face area.

[OldFashionedRed]

Votto overmatched.

[OldFashionedRed]

Aquino tries to avoid getting hit by a strike down the middle. :laugh:

[Ironman92]

Wear it

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Good move…easy decision. Kind of a last chance in this game

[Rowsdower]

Stupid Move

[OldFashionedRed]

Sorry, Barrero has made no attempt tonight to lay off crappy pitches. He needs to sit here and watch someone else get the chance.

[Ironman92]

Would’ve went with Reynolds if available

[Rowsdower]

Sorry, Barrero has made no attempt tonight to lay off crappy pitches. He needs to sit here and watch someone else get the chance.

He has a chance to be a piece of the team going forward, let him try. Alejo is a minor league talent

[Tom Servo]

Barrero could have done that

[OldFashionedRed]

I'm out, good night everyone. I hope the Reds come back.

[mhs95_06]

Did 2 HRs the other day set back Barrero like 49 did for Suarez?

[Ironman92]

That the best bat off the bench?

That’s the ball game….who is best chance to keep inning going? Reynolds? Papierski? Lopez a strange choice but Barrero was completely overwhelmed at the plate.

[OldFashionedRed]

Barrero could have done that

I think it was a good move, Barrero had already struck out 3 times on complete garbage pitches, at least give someone else a chance.

[Ironman92]

Did 2 HRs the other day set back Barrero like 49 did for Suarez?

Heck….even after BP would take a couple HR he spent the next 100 AB trying to do it again

[VR]

Don’t like the PH there. Not as bad as Castro for Hamilton, but ya gotta give the kid big moments.


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[mhs95_06]

Heck….even after BP would take a couple HR he spent the next 100 AB trying to do it again

That quest for HRs sometime is debilitating!

[Rowsdower]

Barrero would’ve made a better throw there. Glad we took him out

[Ironman92]

Farmer says…I’m a 3rd baseman

[Ironman92]

Barrero would’ve made a better throw there. Glad we took him out

Votto has made the worst defensive play of the game if we are being picky

[Tom Servo]

I think it was a good move, Barrero had already struck out 3 times on complete garbage pitches, at least give someone else a chance.
I’d get it if there was a legitimately good PH option, but Alejo ain’t it.

[RedTeamGo!]

I’d get it if there was a legitimately good PH option, but Alejo ain’t it.

And it’s not like the Reds are playing for anything. Absolutely no reason to take Barrero out there. Textbook overmanaging by Bell.

[ShyGuy]

Tough one.

Feels the first series in a while I can’t find a silver lining so far

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Looks like he’s ok but that could have been very nasty. Jagged end of the bat whirling around the neck/face area.

Remember Steve Yeager?

[redsfan9988]

And it’s not like the Reds are playing for anything. Absolutely no reason to take Barrero out there. Textbook overmanaging by Bell.

He’s trying to win the game, man… Barerro had utterly non-competitive at-bats. Chances are, the Mets don’t know who Alejo Lopez is and don’t know how to attack him.

I don’t disagree… I’d have let Barerro bat in that spot. But I don’t think Bell’s thinking is way off base.

[JCM11]

Bell needs to be fired. He's not the guy to manage all these young players we have coming up through the system.