2023 NBA Off-Season: The Season Begins Now (Or As Soon As KD Says It Does)

[Bourgeois Zee]

KD and the Nets apparently kissed and made up. Kyrie is apparently jazzed about staying in Brooklyn too.

With trades (Royce O'Neill, Ben Simmons), signings (TJ Warren), depth (Joe Harris, Seth Curry at SG, not to mention Cam Thomas and Patty Mills), does it make any sense to play Durant at center for most of his minutes? If not Durant, how about Simmons?

A Simmons/ KD frontcourt is tall enough. Does it have enough girth to keep from getting destroyed? And how effective would a pick-and-roll against centers be for Durant and/or Simmons?

[Rojo Rijo]

KD and the Nets apparently kissed and made up. Kyrie is apparently jazzed about staying in Brooklyn too.

With trades (Royce O'Neill, Ben Simmons), signings (TJ Warren), depth (Joe Harris, Seth Curry at SG, not to mention Cam Thomas and Patty Mills), does it make any sense to play Durant at center for most of his minutes? If not Durant, how about Simmons?

A Simmons/ KD frontcourt is tall enough. Does it have enough girth to keep from getting destroyed? And how effective would a pick-and-roll against centers be for Durant and/or Simmons?

Grab your popcorn because that situation is going to blow up massively by February at the latest.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Grab your popcorn because that situation is going to blow up massively by February at the latest.

I kinda want Brooklyn to become a juggernaut... only to see KD, Ben Simmons, and Kyrie try to find new reasons to want to leave.

[M2]

KD and the Nets apparently kissed and made up. Kyrie is apparently jazzed about staying in Brooklyn too.

With trades (Royce O'Neill, Ben Simmons), signings (TJ Warren), depth (Joe Harris, Seth Curry at SG, not to mention Cam Thomas and Patty Mills), does it make any sense to play Durant at center for most of his minutes? If not Durant, how about Simmons?

A Simmons/ KD frontcourt is tall enough. Does it have enough girth to keep from getting destroyed? And how effective would a pick-and-roll against centers be for Durant and/or Simmons?

Simmons at C would seem to be the optimal move. And KD-Simmons-Warren (if Warren can get back to his former self) could be a dynamic frontcourt.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Simmons at C would seem to be the optimal move. And KD-Simmons-Warren (if Warren can get back to his former self) could be a dynamic frontcourt.

Harris too-- should he get healthy and stay there-- fits best at SF. (And not at SG.)

The trade for O'Neal (as a nominal backup F) would also make some sense if Durant or Simmons went big too.

[Rojo Rijo]

So a full season by all 3 (KD/BS/KI) would be 244 games. Whats the over/under total all 3 play? I'd take the under on anything over 200 without hesitation, that's 66/67/67. Heck i'd probably take under 190.

[M2]

So a full season by all 3 (KD/BS/KI) would be 244 games. Whats the over/under total all 3 play? I'd take the under on anything over 200 without hesitation, that's 66/67/67. Heck i'd probably take under 190.

Yeah, I can't imagine they'd crack 200. It will be interesting to see if Kyrie's desire to get another fat contract overrides his instinct to quit.

[SteelSD]

Simmons at C would seem to be the optimal move. And KD-Simmons-Warren (if Warren can get back to his former self) could be a dynamic frontcourt.

Offensively, you could probably slot Simmons at Center when running the half-court offense, put him at the Jokic position at the free throw line and use his ball distribution talents. Defensively, though, while I think he can do ok with some of the weaker Centers, I think using him on them reduces his value versus putting him on the opponent's best player, regardless of position.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Offensively, you could probably slot Simmons at Center when running the half-court offense, put him at the Jokic position at the free throw line and use his ball distribution talents. Defensively, though, while I think he can do ok with some of the weaker Centers, I think using him on them reduces his value versus putting him on the opponent's best player, regardless of position.

Probably loses some of his versatility value, and the rim protection would be next to nothing. But those hands could do some real damage on centers not used to handling the ball well.

Not sure if the trade-off is worth it, honestly. It worked in Philly in short spurts, certainly. But it probably won't work against Philly.

[KoryMac5]

Tough break for OKC...they fear Chet might have ligament damage in his foot...always stay away from tall skinny players...so fragile.

[Rojo Rijo]

Tough break for OKC...they fear Chet might have ligament damage in his foot...always stay away from tall skinny players...so fragile.

I'm not denying the kid has unicorn level talent but there were multiple reasons I didnt want Orlando taking him at #1.

[Puffy]

Pat Bev and Russ on same Lakers team?? Talk about must watch games - and for all the wrong reasons.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Pat Bev and Russ on same Lakers team?? Talk about must watch games - and for all the wrong reasons.

Pat Bev with LeBron might be appointment viewing.

On another note, how far has THT's stock fallen? This time last year, the Lakers could have gotten real value for him. Pelinka, IMO, has struggled in his role as GM.

[SteelSD]

I'm not denying the kid has unicorn level talent but there were multiple reasons I didnt want Orlando taking him at #1.

I'm still too scarred by the Shawn Bradley pick to want anyone with that body type near my team.

[KoryMac5]

Initial reports lisfranc for Chet out the year…

[Bourgeois Zee]

Rumors are that the Lakers are looking to unload Westbrook.

Who says no?

Spurs trade Doug McDermott, Josh Richardson, and Zach Collins for Westbrook.

It works in terms of salary, as the Spurs can absorb the one year of Westbrook. The Lakers end up adding lots of salary for next season. The Spurs get out from under about $35M of bad contracts and can maybe dump Westrbrook later in the year. (And they absolutely have an opening at PG, should they want to do this deal.) LA, meanwhile, gets some versatility up front and depth on the wing. McDermott can play either SF or PF, but is (much) better suited as a 3-and-D shooter. With AD and LeBron, he'd be a serviceable piece in the Joe Harris mold. Richardson's a body, at this point, but he was once able to defend at a fairly elite level. Maybe he can find that magic outside of Miami. Collins is a big who could pair with AD for short minutes to provide very little girth but lots of length. He has some upside, but injuries have robbed him of development time.

None of the players the Spurs would move have much of a role in San Antonio, so they don't lose much. And Westbrook is really questionable at this point, but he's got serious talent.

I think I might be interested, if I'm Popovich The key would be how much interest would Pop have in dealing with Russ when he decides to go Super Russ, refusing to listen to anyone while chasing statistics? Honestly, unsure.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Everyone says no. No one wants him and that contract makes any trade stupid and the Lakers don’t have the picks to buy anyone off.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm still too scarred by the Shawn Bradley pick to want anyone with that body type near my team.

Especially considering Penny Hardaway was the obvious correct pick at that point. No hindsight required.


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[Revering4Blue]

Rumors are that the Lakers are looking to unload Westbrook.

Who says no?

Spurs trade Doug McDermott, Josh Richardson, and Zach Collins for Westbrook.

It works in terms of salary, as the Spurs can absorb the one year of Westbrook. The Lakers end up adding lots of salary for next season. The Spurs get out from under about $35M of bad contracts and can maybe dump Westrbrook later in the year. (And they absolutely have an opening at PG, should they want to do this deal.) LA, meanwhile, gets some versatility up front and depth on the wing. McDermott can play either SF or PF, but is (much) better suited as a 3-and-D shooter. With AD and LeBron, he'd be a serviceable piece in the Joe Harris mold. Richardson's a body, at this point, but he was once able to defend at a fairly elite level. Maybe he can find that magic outside of Miami. Collins is a big who could pair with AD for short minutes to provide very little girth but lots of length. He has some upside, but injuries have robbed him of development time.

None of the players the Spurs would move have much of a role in San Antonio, so they don't lose much. And Westbrook is really questionable at this point, but he's got serious talent.

I think I might be interested, if I'm Popovich The key would be how much interest would Pop have in dealing with Russ when he decides to go Super Russ, refusing to listen to anyone while chasing statistics? Honestly, unsure.

I can’t see why San Antonio would say yes to that proposed deal for a variety of reasons, mainly, your last point about coach-ability.

Unfortunately, given their lack of big men not named Poetl (sp?) with even the slightest bit of potential, the Spurs can’t afford to part with Collins unless another big is coming in return. Of course, Collins hasn’t proven he can stay healthy - neither has McBuckets - but I still wouldn’t give up McBuckets and Richardson for Russ without draft compensation.


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[Revering4Blue]

Pat Bev with LeBron might be appointment viewing.

On another note, how far has THT's stock fallen? This time last year, the Lakers could have gotten real value for him. Pelinka, IMO, has struggled in his role as GM.

Pelinka, IMO, made a grave mistake over-tinkering with the championship team. It’s been basically downhill from there. And it’s not Pelinka’s fault A.D doesn’t commit himself to staying in shape. That’s an issue that cannot be overlooked.


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[SteelSD]

Especially considering Penny Hardaway was the obvious correct pick at that point. No hindsight required.


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The Shawn Bradley pick. The Barkley trade. The Bryan Colangelo hire.

There are lesser offenses, for sure. But that trifecta is right out of Time Bandits.


https://youtu.be/5qw1hcevmdU

[Revering4Blue]

The Shawn Bradley pick. The Barkley trade. The Bryan Colangelo hire.

There are lesser offenses, for sure. But that trifecta is right out of Time Bandits.


https://youtu.be/5qw1hcevmdU

True that.

I don’t wish to rub salt in the wound, but I have to place the Moses Malone to Washington trade as another major franchise offense.

That said, given intel at the time, I had no real issue with trading the top pick that year for Roy Hinson. He looked like a rising star as a Cavalier. That, IMO, made at least a modicum of sense. That misstep could have been avoided if they’d have drafted Hinson instead of Rautins in ‘83. And, if the Sixers had done what I wanted them to do with the top pick in ‘86, they’d have been even worse off: Draft Len Bias. We’ll never know but years later, I still believe he was by far the most talented player in that draft.

I’ll quit now, I’ve likely depressed you enough.


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[M2]

Pelinka, IMO, made a grave mistake over-tinkering with the championship team. It’s been basically downhill from there. And it’s not Pelinka’s fault A.D doesn’t commit himself to staying in shape. That’s an issue that cannot be overlooked.

Does AD not stay in shape or is he fragile and he bulked up way too much? Seemed like he tried to pack on muscle to bang on the blocks and it went terribly wrong.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Pelinka, IMO, made a grave mistake over-tinkering with the championship team. It’s been basically downhill from there. And it’s not Pelinka’s fault A.D doesn’t commit himself to staying in shape. That’s an issue that cannot be overlooked.

Eyeroll.

AD can't help freak injuries.

[Revering4Blue]

Eyeroll.

AD can't help freak injuries.

Whatever.

He’s still injury-prone. Again, not Pelinka’s fault. But trading away depth in the Russ deal IS Pelinka’s fault, even if LeBron - who is no GM - pushed for it.


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[RedTeamGo!]

Aaaaaaand the Cavs might be the best team in the east.

Donovan Mitchell to the Cavs for Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji, and 3 unprotected 1st round picks

[WVRed]

Whatever.

He’s still injury-prone. Again, not Pelinka’s fault. But trading away depth in the Russ deal IS Pelinka’s fault, even if LeBron - who is no GM - pushed for it.


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Part of me hopes when LeBrons playing career is done he buys a team or becomes a GM aka Jordan. Just to see how horrible he is at constructing a team.

Anyone else see LeBron pushing for a trade back to Cleveland with their stacked team or has that ship sailed?

[KoryMac5]

Knicks really overplayed their hand on this one as they were sitting on 9 1st round picks which Ainge covets...I don't think they thought anyone else could match what they had.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Well this is an interesting day to be a Jazz fan that also roots for the Cavs.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Part of me hopes when LeBrons playing career is done he buys a team or becomes a GM aka Jordan. Just to see how horrible he is at constructing a team.

Anyone else see LeBron pushing for a trade back to Cleveland with their stacked team or has that ship sailed?

Sailed. He signed a massive extension in LA and Cleveland would never give up the assets to acquire him at that salary.

[Mitri]

Dang. As a Knicks fan this is a huge bummer.

But at least that means I get to root for Toppin as a Knick in another rebuilding year. A lot can change in a season so I’m good with them staying the course for one more year.

Seems like a deal Rose could have topped but refused to push the chips in.

[SteelSD]

Knicks really overplayed their hand on this one as they were sitting on 9 1st round picks which Ainge covets...I don't think they thought anyone else could match what they had.

Their hand was played out when they signed Barrett to the extension. It's almost like the Jazz wanted the only player the Knicks wanted to keep, who might not even be worth keeping. What a mess that team has made for itself.

[M2]

Aaaaaaand the Cavs might be the best team in the east.

Donovan Mitchell to the Cavs for Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji, and 3 unprotected 1st round picks

Fascinating deal. Cleveland's going to have a small, but explosive backcourt with the twin towers of Mobley and Allen in the frontcourt. The guy who bridges those extremes probably determines how well it all fits together, and I'm not sure the Cavs have the right guy for that. Rarely has a 3-and-D been more needed on a roster. I love that they went for it with the Mitchell trade, but Koby Altman's still got some work to do. Also, they had to make a deal for a Mitchell type this year before Garland's max extension kicks in. There's that weird rule where if you got a guy on a rookie max, you can't trade for another.

I don't like Sexton's game (note how Cleveland was so much better without him). Markkanen's one of those guys who could have a big year or two and get himself overpaid. No idea about Agbaji. The picks (2025, 27 and 29 with swaps in 26 and 28) are the interesting part. If Cleveland has itself a good decade, then it can laugh off the picks. If it doesn't, it becomes a deep tale of woe.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I love this deal for Cleveland, and I think Mitchell is largely overrated.

A starting lineup with Garland at PG, Mitchell and LeVert at the wings, Mobley, and Allen in the frontcourt? That's some serious dog potential.

And they can bring Love off the bench as a sixth man for either PF or C, Okoro as a defensive savant, and Osman as an energy guy.

They need a second unit PG, but they've got a whole bunch to cause other teams fits. Especially in the playoffs.

(Jarrett Allen might be the key player in the entire NBA.)

[Betterread]

Waiting for more facts on these negotiations, but if the Knicks passed on Spyda because they didn’t want to give up Grimes or Barrett to get him, that’s a big opportunity lost.
I feel sorry for Mitchell. Cleveland is not New York. In the NBA that’s a good thing. In every other way, it’s a bad thing.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I feel sorry for Mitchell. Cleveland is not New York. In the NBA that’s a good thing. In every other way, it’s a bad thing.

Mitchell can wait three more years, then cash in on a monster free agent contract to New York after declining his player option in 2025-2026.

On a related but tangential note, NBA superstars have to realize the power they have in one- and two-year deals by now, right?

[BuckeyeRed27]

I love this deal for Cleveland, and I think Mitchell is largely overrated.

A starting lineup with Garland at PG, Mitchell and LeVert at the wings, Mobley, and Allen in the frontcourt? That's some serious dog potential.

And they can bring Love off the bench as a sixth man for either PF or C, Okoro as a defensive savant, and Osman as an energy guy.

They need a second unit PG, but they've got a whole bunch to cause other teams fits. Especially in the playoffs.

(Jarrett Allen might be the key player in the entire NBA.)

Cavs brought back Rubio. They can do Lavert, Love and Rubio off the bench. I bet Okoro starts as the 3 for now.

[M2]

Waiting for more facts on these negotiations, but if the Knicks passed on Spyda because they didn’t want to give up Grimes or Barrett to get him, that’s a big opportunity lost.
I feel sorry for Mitchell. Cleveland is not New York. In the NBA that’s a good thing. In every other way, it’s a bad thing.

I don't get the Knicks. Arguably they passed on Spyda when they made a bunch of baffling trades around the draft and signed Jalen Brunson. At that point Spyda made no sense on their team.

[Revering4Blue]

Fascinating deal. Cleveland's going to have a small, but explosive backcourt with the twin towers of Mobley and Allen in the frontcourt. The guy who bridges those extremes probably determines how well it all fits together, and I'm not sure the Cavs have the right guy for that. Rarely has a 3-and-D been more needed on a roster. I love that they went for it with the Mitchell trade, but Koby Altman's still got some work to do. Also, they had to make a deal for a Mitchell type this year before Garland's max extension kicks in. There's that weird rule where if you got a guy on a rookie max, you can't trade for another.

I don't like Sexton's game (note how Cleveland was so much better without him). Markkanen's one of those guys who could have a big year or two and get himself overpaid. No idea about Agbaji. The picks (2025, 27 and 29 with swaps in 26 and 28) are the interesting part. If Cleveland has itself a good decade, then it can laugh off the picks. If it doesn't, it becomes a deep tale of woe.

The commonly discussed comp for Agbaji is/was Desmond Bane. At this point, discounting the draft picks, I believe he is the key to the deal.

We pretty much know what we’re getting from Sexton and Markkanen, though the latter should be better off returning to his natural position with Utah.


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[Bourgeois Zee]

Cavs brought back Rubio. They can do Lavert, Love and Rubio off the bench. I bet Okoro starts as the 3 for now.

Didn't realize they had Rubio too. Love, Rubio, Osman, and Okoro is a solid enough bench with length, rebounding, and defense.

Only Love can shoot, though.

I'm not sure if I'd start Okoro-- he reminds me a bit of Jarred Culver and Josh Okegie in Minnesota.

[Betterread]

Which is the better EC starting backcourt - Spyda/Garland or Trae/Murray?

[RedTeamGo!]

I love this deal for Cleveland, and I think Mitchell is largely overrated.

A starting lineup with Garland at PG, Mitchell and LeVert at the wings, Mobley, and Allen in the frontcourt? That's some serious dog potential.

And they can bring Love off the bench as a sixth man for either PF or C, Okoro as a defensive savant, and Osman as an energy guy.

They need a second unit PG, but they've got a whole bunch to cause other teams fits. Especially in the playoffs.

(Jarrett Allen might be the key player in the entire NBA.)

They have Rubio

[BuckeyeRed27]

Which is the better EC starting backcourt - Spyda/Garland or Trae/Murray?

Mitchell and Garland and I’m not sure it’s particularly close.

- - - Updated - - -


Didn't realize they had Rubio too. Love, Rubio, Osman, and Okoro is a solid enough bench with length, rebounding, and defense.

Only Love can shoot, though.

I'm not sure if I'd start Okoro-- he reminds me a bit of Jarred Culver and Josh Okegie in Minnesota.

You need Okoro to start and guard wings. Lavert will be better off the bench as an instant offense guy who doesn’t have to worry about sharing with mitchell and garland.

Okoro can guard the other teams best player and hopefully never touch the ball on offense until he leans how to shoot corner 3s.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Which is the better EC starting backcourt - Spyda/Garland or Trae/Murray?

Mitchell and Garland.

I'm not sure I have Trae/ Murray in my top three Eastern Conference backcourt duos.

1. Maxey/ Harden
2. Mitchell/ Garland
3. Smart/ Brown
4. Young/ Murray

Defense matters, and Trae Young is an absolute sieve defensively. Perhaps he gets better with Murray beside him. (Murray is exceptional on that end.)

EDIT: If Middleton is a SG, that's the top spot, with Young/ Murray moving down to 5th.

[M2]

Mitchell and Garland and I’m not sure it’s particularly close.

Though Murray is the only one there who can guard anyone. I think the actual answer is Jrue-Middleton with Smart-Brown running 2nd.


You need Okoro to start and guard wings. Lavert will be better off the bench as an instant offense guy who doesn’t have to worry about sharing with mitchell and garland.

Okoro can guard the other teams best player and hopefully never touch the ball on offense until he leans how to shoot corner 3s.

I agree with that general plan, though I still think what they need is someone who's not on their roster. A Mikal Bridges clone would fit that team like a glove.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Though Murray is the only one there who can guard anyone. I think the actual answer is Jrue-Middleton with Smart-Brown running 2nd.



I agree with that general plan, though I still think what they need is someone who's not on their roster. A Mikal Bridges clone would fit that team like a glove.

I mean Middleton is a forward though. I guess if you want to call him a point forward to call him a back court player than sure, him and Holiday are probably top, but that’s a stretch for me.

I do think the Cavs at some point will add a more 3 and D wing, but probably not to start the season.

[M2]

I mean Middleton is a forward though. I guess if you want to call him a point forward to call him a back court player than sure, him and Holiday are probably top, but that’s a stretch for me.

I do think the Cavs at some point will add a more 3 and D wing, but probably not to start the season.

He's kind of a swingman, though he officially was playing the #2 when they won the finals (Giannis, Lopez and Tucker in the frontcourt). He guards the #2 a lot because they like his length on switches and harassing shots/ball movement at the top of the arc.

[WVRed]

Looks like the Kentucky Knicks are looking at SGA after missing out on Mitchell.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Looks like the Kentucky Knicks are looking at SGA after missing out on Mitchell.

If the Knicks wouldn't meet the demands for Mitchell, why would they meet the demands for SGA?

[M2]

If the Knicks wouldn't meet the demands for Mitchell, why would they meet the demands for SGA?

SGA makes more sense on their roster, IMO. Gives them length on the wing.

[Bourgeois Zee]

SGA makes more sense on their roster, IMO. Gives them length on the wing.

Sure. Mitchell, at 6'1" is tiny for a wing.

That said, I'm not sure what to think of SGA. He's gotten absolutely no help so his numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. But he's not taken that next leap to superstar that I thought possible when he played with Chris Paul. Maybe that happens with better players around him. Unfortunately, OKC has decided they won't surround him with good players until at least 2023.

What that team is doing is a travesty for his career.

Ditto Houston with John Wall the past two seasons and any team who tells players to just stay at home because they're too good to lose games.

[M2]

Sure. Mitchell, at 6'1" is tiny for a wing.

That said, I'm not sure what to think of SGA. He's gotten absolutely no help so his numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. But he's not taken that next leap to superstar that I thought possible when he played with Chris Paul. Maybe that happens with better players around him. Unfortunately, OKC has decided they won't surround him with good players until at least 2023.

What that team is doing is a travesty for his career.

Ditto Houston with John Wall the past two seasons and any team who tells players to just stay at home because they're too good to lose games.

The mere fact that SGA might be available tells us everything we need to know about OKC. In a sane universe they're building around SGA and Giddey. Those two could help unlock all of those young forwards, but the team is addicted to punting.

[SteelSD]

Danilo Gallinari tore his ACL playing for the Italian National team. NBA Eastern Conference teams are hoping that he'll be eligible for a late season return, so they'll have at least one player on the Celtics they can relentlessly attack while he's playing defense.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Are the Celtics everyone's favorites for the East at this point?

Is Golden State or Phoenix the favorite in the West?

[M2]

Are the Celtics everyone's favorites for the East at this point?

Is Golden State or Phoenix the favorite in the West?

Are we talking regular season or overall? If it's regular season, I can definitely see the Celtics having the bit between their teeth from the jump. Though Milwaukee might want to reassert its dominance. And don't sleep on Philly. That team might be eyeing a "shut everybody up" season.

I question whether Phoenix can repeat last season. It's got to have some doubts creeping in and Chris Paul can't do that forever. Memphis might be the sleeper out there. If Ja can deliver a full season, watch out. Denver's another one that's got high upside with Murray and Porter back in the fold. And the Clippers could be ridiculous, or they could be just a little bit too old.

Playoffs is a different animal and a lot is going to happen between here and there. My initial thought is Golden State until someone can beat them.

[SteelSD]

Are we talking regular season or overall? If it's regular season, I can definitely see the Celtics having the bit between their teeth from the jump. Though Milwaukee might want to reassert its dominance. And don't sleep on Philly. That team might be eyeing a "shut everybody up" season.

I question whether Phoenix can repeat last season. It's got to have some doubts creeping in and Chris Paul can't do that forever. Memphis might be the sleeper out there. If Ja can deliver a full season, watch out. Denver's another one that's got high upside with Murray and Porter back in the fold. And the Clippers could be ridiculous, or they could be just a little bit too old.

Playoffs is a different animal and a lot is going to happen between here and there. My initial thought is Golden State until someone can beat them.

I think Jalen Brown is probably the key to the Celts season. Given the trade rumors swirling, I have a feeling he's going to be on some kind of mission, but have no idea what direction that will take them.

And I can guarantee that if Harden produces after giving up 15M in the offseason, there's going to be hell to pay for the rest of that squad if they don't perform up to expectations.

[Betterread]

Are the Celtics everyone's favorites for the East at this point?

Is Golden State or Phoenix the favorite in the West?

EC - Boston and Milwaukee
WC - Golden State and LAClips (a well-rested Kawhi is a bad thing for the rest of the league).

[M2]

I think Jalen Brown is probably the key to the Celts season. Given the trade rumors swirling, I have a feeling he's going to be on some kind of mission, but have no idea what direction that will take them.

And I can guarantee that if Harden produces after giving up 15M in the offseason, there's going to be hell to pay for the rest of that squad if they don't perform up to expectations.

Yep, a lot of this season is going to revolve around who's maniacal right now. Brown seems like that's a constant with him. Wouldn't surprise me if he's trying to dribble music festival crowds in order to sharpen his handle. I'd project Brown to have his best season. For the Sixers, Toby is the guy who needs to rise from the ashes of last season. He needs to be as angry at himself as Joel Embiid should be angry at him.

[Bourgeois Zee]

LAClips (a well-rested Kawhi is a bad thing for the rest of the league).

Oohh, good call.

A closing five of John Wall, Norman Powell, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, and Robert Covington, with Ivica Zubac, Reggie Jackson, Marcus Morris, Luke Kennard, and Terence Mann as depth?

That team is pretty well complete, as is.

[Betterread]

I think Jalen Brown is probably the key to the Celts season. Given the trade rumors swirling, I have a feeling he's going to be on some kind of mission, but have no idea what direction that will take them.

And I can guarantee that if Harden produces after giving up 15M in the offseason, there's going to be hell to pay for the rest of that squad if they don't perform up to expectations.

So you’re not thinking at all about Tatum shooing 37% in the finals? When you needed your star to do starry things, he was kind of checked up by Andrew Wiggins. When his athleticism was matched (or exceeeded?) he didn’t have enough tricks and footwork to consistently overcome his opponent. Now this is relative. He still can volume score, given enough shots.
Now, maybe Andrew Wiggins finally used his athletic ability to positive effect. Maybe Tatum was tired. I really don’t know. But I know if I was a Celtics fan, I would be thinking about it.

Yep, a lot of this season is going to revolve around who's maniacal right now. Brown seems like that's a constant with him. Wouldn't surprise me if he's trying to dribble music festival crowds in order to sharpen his handle. I'd project Brown to have his best season. For the Sixers, Toby is the guy who needs to rise from the ashes of last season. He needs to be as angry at himself as Joel Embiid should be angry at him.

[M2]

So you’re not thinking at all about Tatum shooing 37% in the finals? When you needed your star to do starry things, he was kind of checked up by Andrew Wiggins. When his athleticism was matched (or exceeeded?) he didn’t have enough tricks and footwork to consistently overcome his opponent. Now this is relative. He still can volume score, given enough shots.
Now, maybe Andrew Wiggins finally used his athletic ability to positive effect. Maybe Tatum was tired. I really don’t know. But I know if I was a Celtics fan, I would be thinking about it.

I'm not a Celtics fan (can't stress that enough). So there's literally nothing that could make me worry about them. I do think they're a good team (fun to watch) and I generally subscribe to the notion that a 1st team All-NBA guy probably won't be a problem. If they make it back to the finals (far from a given), then we can see if they learned anything from their previous experience.

[SteelSD]

So you’re not thinking at all about Tatum shooing 37% in the finals? When you needed your star to do starry things, he was kind of checked up by Andrew Wiggins. When his athleticism was matched (or exceeeded?) he didn’t have enough tricks and footwork to consistently overcome his opponent. Now this is relative. He still can volume score, given enough shots.
Now, maybe Andrew Wiggins finally used his athletic ability to positive effect. Maybe Tatum was tired. I really don’t know. But I know if I was a Celtics fan, I would be thinking about it.

Like M2, I don't really worry about how the Celtics do. In fact, as a Sixers fan, I'd prefer it if their team imploded or was sucked up by a random giant alien space vacuum, never to be seen from again. Probing optional, but encouraged.

[M2]

Like M2, I don't really worry about how the Celtics do. In fact, as a Sixers fan, I'd prefer it if their team imploded or was sucked up by a random giant alien space vacuum, never to be seen from again. Probing optional, but encouraged.

I like when both teams are good and can hate each other properly.

[Revering4Blue]

The mere fact that SGA might be available tells us everything we need to know about OKC. In a sane universe they're building around SGA and Giddey. Those two could help unlock all of those young forwards, but the team is addicted to punting.

I’ll believe SGA is actually available if/when he’s dealt. They’re at the cycling of assets stage now. Even though they dealt future firsts to land the forward this past draft, that’s still cycling assets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingspoint]

I like when both teams are good and can hate each other properly.

I like it when the Knicks are thrown into the mix.

[Kingspoint]

Ainge gets to handpick whoever he want to have from the next five years worth of NBA talent coming into the league. He'll be able to add three top-5 lottery picks at the very least. The future has never looked brighter for the Utah Jazz or any team in the NBA.

[M2]

Ainge gets to handpick whoever he want to have from the next five years worth of NBA talent coming into the league. He'll be able to add three top-5 lottery picks at the very least. The future has never looked brighter for the Utah Jazz or any team in the NBA.

I'm not really sure those Minnesota and Cleveland picks are going to allow him to operate in the upper lottery. I would assume the bulk of those picks are of the non-lottery variety and I don't see any teams getting wacky over those in recent years. This isn't like when he was sitting on those Nets picks. He's mostly going to have to depend on how bad his team is and on appeasing the ping-pong ball gods.

[Betterread]

Motrezl Harrell signs a 2yr $5.2 million contract with Philly. Is he still high from the weed he was found in his possession in Kentucky, where he was prosecuted and pled to a misdemeanor AND where he played some great basketball? That is a great deal for the sixers. He averaged 13 ppg in just an avg of 23 minutespg with a PER of 23.26.

[SteelSD]

Well, first, I hadn't paid attention to Harrell in the offseason, so this one is out of the blue. Old school offensive player, undersized for a backup Center, but has (reportedly) a 7'4" wingspan and active as heck. May help with the Sixers' issues giving up offensive rebounds, and will do the gritty work on the defensive glass too. Plays with a chip on his shoulder, and actively agitates, but to the point of stupid sometimes. Defensively, things can get rough for him. Rumor has it that Harden helped drive the signing, as he keeps pushing to get the Houston band back together. Did not know that he and Jordan Clarkson are the only two guys to score 5,000+ points off the bench over the last five seasons. Unsure what this means for Paul Reed, and the Sixers don't have a roster spot right now, so someone's gotta go. Nice to see actual NBA players manning an actual NBA bench though (Niang, Harrell, House, Melton).

[M2]

I love Trez. He's got crazy amounts of bounce in his game, like a human superball. If they pair him with a guard who can run pick-and-roll, he will feast. Should make a fantastic change of pace from Embiid. You've got to go from having Godzilla pound on you to suddenly covering the most hyperactive guy in the league. I like what Morey's doing in filling out that team.

[Kingspoint]

I'm not really sure those Minnesota and Cleveland picks are going to allow him to operate in the upper lottery. I would assume the bulk of those picks are of the non-lottery variety and I don't see any teams getting wacky over those in recent years. This isn't like when he was sitting on those Nets picks. He's mostly going to have to depend on how bad his team is and on appeasing the ping-pong ball gods.

I was assuming the 2023 UTA pick as one of the three top-5 picks. I'm sure Ainge isn't done and I expect move moves to try to get more lottery options.

[M2]

I was assuming the 2023 UTA pick as one of the three top-5 picks. I'm sure Ainge isn't done and I expect move moves to try to get more lottery options.

He'll get his picks, but Utah's not the only bad team and the lottery is more capricious these days (you've got to be THE worst team in the league just to guarantee top five). I just don't think he's sitting on paydirt with his other picks. There's a decent chance he'll end up with some Lakers picks plus Russ. He might play what he's got into a winning hand, but I don't think he's necessarily holding one at the moment.

[Kingspoint]

He'll get his picks, but Utah's not the only bad team and the lottery is more capricious these days. I just don't think he's sitting on paydirt with his other picks. There's a decent chance he'll end up with some Lakers picks plus Russ. He might play what he's got into a winning hand, but I don't think he's necessarily holding one at the moment.

I agree totally with that.

[Chip R]

There are strong rumors out there that the Celtics are going to sign Carmelo Anthony.

[M2]

There are strong rumors out there that the Celtics are going to sign Carmelo Anthony.

That's a bad move.

[Bourgeois Zee]

That's a bad move.

It's a great moves for people who hate the Celtics.

Anthony has turned himself into a near elite shooter from distance-- surrounded by dominant defenders, he should be fine.

Putting Anthony on the floor with, for example, Marcus Smart, Time Lord, Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown should hide him adequately enough that he'd be a net positive.

But that asks a lot of the other players on the floor.

[M2]

It's a great moves for people who hate the Celtics.

Anthony has turned himself into a near elite shooter from distance-- surrounded by dominant defenders, he should be fine.

Putting Anthony on the floor with, for example, Marcus Smart, Time Lord, Al Horford, and Jaylen Brown should hide him adequately enough that he'd be a net positive.

But that asks a lot of the other players on the floor.

My question is how does a guy who can't switch fit on a team that switches everything?

[Kingspoint]

My question is how does a guy who can't switch fit on a team that switches everything?

It's like,...Who is the one player we can add that fits the worst on this team?

[Cliffawed]

kind of makes me respect lebron more. he actually earned to 'run his team' these guys can not bully the nets around cos they have not earned it. even KD.

[Bourgeois Zee]

My question is how does a guy who can't switch fit on a team that switches everything?

He hopes that Williams will erase his myriad of defensive miscues. Or Smart will. Or Brown, perhaps. Or maybe Horford.

There are likely enough defensive bodies in that lineup for Anthony's good (near elite shooting from distance, great handle) to help more than his bad (defense, lack of passing) hurts.

[M2]

kind of makes me respect lebron more. he actually earned to 'run his team' these guys can not bully the nets around cos they have not earned it. even KD.

LeBron's also been smart about leverage. He's had short-term deals and opt outs which have allowed him to say "give me what I need or maybe I walk to somewhere else." KD gave away his leverage when he signed his 4-year deal. At this point in his career, one last massive deal was the right call to make, but it handed the Nets all the leverage. If he wants that money, then he's got to show up and play for that team. Oddly his deal also ended Kyrie's leverage. The Nets did let those guys run the asylum a bit. They got rid of the coach, they insisted on a De'Andre Jordan over Jarret Allen (which is haunting that franchise). Now that KD is locked down as their keystone, they can take back the asylum from the inmates.

I would argue the Lakers are in a similar situation now that LeBron has extended. For instance, if they decide to trade AD they don't have to obtain LeBron's blessing. They'd probably give him the courtesy of keeping him in the loop, but I doubt he could make or stop the trade if the Lakers decide to go that route.

[M2]

He hopes that Williams will erase his myriad of defensive miscues. Or Smart will. Or Brown, perhaps. Or maybe Horford.

There are likely enough defensive bodies in that lineup for Anthony's good (near elite shooting from distance, great handle) to help more than his bad (defense, lack of passing) hurts.

Though to do that, they might need to change their whole defensive scheme just to make it work with Melo out there. If he can't switch, then suddenly Smart, Brown and Brogdon have to be ready to fight through screens. They'll do it, but it could affect the locker room culture ("they rest of us switch"). They'll be asking better players to do extra work. Udoka's going to have a coaching challenge on his hands if they sign Melo.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Though to do that, they might need to change their whole defensive scheme just to make it work with Melo out there. If he can't switch, then suddenly Smart, Brown and Brogdon have to be ready to fight through screens. They'll do it, but it could affect the locker room culture ("they rest of us switch"). They'll be asking better players to do extra work. Udoka's going to have a coaching challenge on his hands if they sign Melo.

Brogdon and Anthony, I suspect, will rarely see the floor together.

Too, Boston's team defense was exceptional last year not because everyone switched, but because Robert Williams became a pretty reasonable facsimile of Bam Adebayo and everyone else worked at it. In short, it wasn't scheme, it wasn't personnel-- it was want to. (Credit Udoka for that-- even if it did take about six weeks.) If he can get Tatum to defend, he can get Anthony to be his best self.

[M2]

Brogdon and Anthony, I suspect, will rarely see the floor together.

Too, Boston's team defense was exceptional last year not because everyone switched, but because Robert Williams became a pretty reasonable facsimile of Bam Adebayo and everyone else worked at it. In short, it wasn't scheme, it wasn't personnel-- it was want to. (Credit Udoka for that-- even if it did take about six weeks.) If he can get Tatum to defend, he can get Anthony to be his best self.

Seems like Brogdon and Anthony have to play together. Neither one is starting.

As for personnel/scheme, seemed like a chicken/egg sort of deal. The Celtics were long and switchable so they switched, but if you have to get away from the thing that brought you to the finals for a bench player then maybe he's not the right bench player for you. Some very smart people have fooled themselves into thinking they're the ones who know how to get the best out of late career Melo. So far none have been right.

I'll be curious to hear the takes on this from the Ringer's crew of Celtics fans.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Seems like Brogdon and Anthony have to play together. Neither one is starting.

Maybe.

They could also stagger him as they did last year with Nesmith.

I think he plays Nesmith's minutes, basically.

[Betterread]

In Eurobasket 2022, it was a big day to go from 16 countries to 8. Greece (Giannis) and Slovenia (Luka) Cruised, as expected, but Serbia was upset by Italy, led by Marco Spissu and Luigi Datome (former Celtic). France lost to Germany, despite the efforts of another Beacon Hill Baller, Yabusele. Lauri Markkanen had the best stat line with 43 to lead Finland over Croatia.

[Kingspoint]

In Eurobasket 2022, it was a big day to go from 16 countries to 8. Greece (Giannis) and Slovenia (Luka) Cruised, as expected, but Serbia was upset by Italy, led by Marco Spissu and Luigi Datome (former Celtic). France lost to Germany, despite the efforts of another Beacon Hill Baller, Yabusele. Lauri Markkanen had the best stat line with 43 to lead Finland over Croatia.

Markkanen was something like 19 for 23 from the field.

[M2]

No mention here yet of the Robert Sarver fine/suspension. Beyond the ruling itself, I'm curious to hear how people think this might affect the Suns. Will players want to be on a team he owns? If the Suns struggle at all, will Sarver demand his GM strip mine the roster so he can pocket gobs of cash (aka, take his ball and go home with full pockets)? I'm thinking if this goes south rapidly, Devin Booker could be on the block this winter.

[WVRed]

No mention here yet of the Robert Sarver fine/suspension. Beyond the ruling itself, I'm curious to hear how people think this might affect the Suns. Will players want to be on a team he owns? If the Suns struggle at all, will Sarver demand his GM strip mine the roster so he can pocket gobs of cash (aka, take his ball and go home with full pockets)? I'm thinking if this goes south rapidly, Devin Booker could be on the block this winter.

I’ll admit I barely follow the NBA but my question is why did Donald Sterling get banned for life but Sarver got the ruling he got?

[Bourgeois Zee]

I’ll admit I barely follow the NBA but my question is why did Donald Sterling get banned for life but Sarver got the ruling he got?

They caught Sterling with audio, while Sarver was a bit more careful.

That's all it takes.

(Well, that and billions of dollars.)

[WVRed]

They caught Sterling with audio, while Sarver was a bit more careful.

That's all it takes.

(Well, that and billions of dollars.)

So Sterling basically hung himself?

Got it.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Dennis Schroder goes back to the Lakers for cheap. Declined offers from Toronto and Phoenix.

Solid get for that low a deal.

With Westbrook, Kendrick Nunn, and PatBen also capable PGs, either the Lakers are going to go all-on on playmaking and ball-handling, or they have an actual plan on what to do with a rather unhappy (and unproductive) would-be ball-dominant PG.

[Betterread]

Dennis Schroder goes back to the Lakers for cheap. Declined offers from Toronto and Phoenix.

Solid get for that low a deal.

With Westbrook, Kendrick Nunn, and PatBen also capable PGs, either the Lakers are going to go all-on on playmaking and ball-handling, or they have an actual plan on what to do with a rather unhappy (and unproductive) would-be ball-dominant PG.

Good observation. PatBev will reliably miss 20 games due to age, but I thought they would roll with Nunn as a third PG. Someone will be left out when minutes get short, or is there another move in the works?

[Rojo Rijo]

So the NBA looks to lower their age requirement from 19 to 18, potentially starting with the 2024 draft:

So the 2024 draft would be a double draft, aka as loaded.

Teams holding additional 1sts in 2024 draft:

Atlanta
2024 first round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-14 in 2024, 1-12 in 2025 and 1-10 in 2026

Houston
2024 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
Brooklyn's 2024 1st round pick to Houston

Memphis
2024 first round draft pick from Golden State
Golden State's 1st round pick to Memphis protected for selections 1-4 in 2024 and 1 in 2025 and unprotected in 2026

New Orleans
2024 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2024 1st round pick to New Orleans or New Orleans has the right to instead receive the L.A. Lakers' 2025 1st round pick
2024 first round draft pick from Milwaukee (swap, New Orleans outgoing)
New Orleans has the right to swap its 2024 1st round pick for Milwaukee's 2024 1st round pick

Oklahoma City -
2024 first round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2024 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-4; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Houston will instead convey its 2024 2nd round pick and 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City
2024 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2024 1st round pick to Oklahoma City
2024 first round draft pick from Utah
Utah's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026 (if Utah has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2026

[Kingspoint]

Dennis Schroder goes back to the Lakers for cheap. Declined offers from Toronto and Phoenix.

Solid get for that low a deal.

With Westbrook, Kendrick Nunn, and PatBen also capable PGs, either the Lakers are going to go all-on on playmaking and ball-handling, or they have an actual plan on what to do with a rather unhappy (and unproductive) would-be ball-dominant PG.

What took them so long?

[WVRed]

Interesting:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34639780/boston-celtics-coach-ime-udoka-facing-potential-disciplinary-action-team-violation-sources-say

Former WVU guard Joe Mazzulla could be coaching the Celtics this season.

[M2]

Interesting:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34639780/boston-celtics-coach-ime-udoka-facing-potential-disciplinary-action-team-violation-sources-say

Former WVU guard Joe Mazzulla could be coaching the Celtics this season.

I seriously question whether that team will be functional without Udoka. He galvanized them last season when they seemed utterly lost.

Supposedly this is connected to a shouting match he had with Payton Pritchard. If that's the case and the team struggles without Udoka, I suspect Pritchard will become persona non grata with Celtics fans.

[Betterread]

I seriously question whether that team will be functional without Udoka. He galvanized them last season when they seemed utterly lost.

Supposedly this is connected to a shouting match he had with Payton Pritchard. If that's the case and the team struggles without Udoka, I suspect Pritchard will become persona non grata with Celtics fans.
Thanks. Always interesting to get the interpersonal dynamics for a big news item. Losing Udoka for a long period of time is definitely a roadblock to continued success.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I seriously question whether that team will be functional without Udoka. He galvanized them last season when they seemed utterly lost.

Supposedly this is connected to a shouting match he had with Payton Pritchard. If that's the case and the team struggles without Udoka, I suspect Pritchard will become persona non grata with Celtics fans.

Where you seeing that? Apparently he was having an affair with a staff member.

[WVRed]

Where you seeing that? Apparently he was having an affair with a staff member.

Supposedly he snitched.

[Boston Red]

Apparently he was having an affair with a staff member.

Was that wrong?

[M2]

Where you seeing that? Apparently he was having an affair with a staff member.

The Pritchard thing was circulating last night, but if it's an affair then 100% who the hell cares?

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Pritchard thing was circulating last night, but if it's an affair then 100% who the hell cares?

Hard to say without knowing the details.

[RedEye]

Any other Hawks fans on here? I'm excited for the season with Trae and Dejounte in the back court.

[Boston Red]

Prety sure the rule in 2022 is that a sexual relationship with a subordinate is a definite no go. Power imbalances, potential coercion, etc.

[WVRed]

The Pritchard thing was circulating last night, but if it's an affair then 100% who the hell cares?

Twitter agrees with you but this whole thing has been handled poorly by the Celtics.

Latest rumor is Udoka is considering resigning. Have to think there’s a market for a coach who just took his team to the finals and don’t give a tiny mouses donkey about who he’s sleeping with.

[WVRed]

Udoka is facing an 82 game suspension.

By comparison, Gilbert Arenas got 50 games for bringing a gun into a locker room and Latrell Spreewell got 68 games for choking out PJ Carlesimo.

[Kingspoint]

The Pritchard thing was circulating last night, but if it's an affair then 100% who the hell cares?

Abuse of power. Also against company policy (which is why they have to make it company policy sometimes because too many don't comprehend abuse of power).

- - - Updated - - -


Udoka is facing an 82 game suspension.

By comparison, Gilbert Arenas got 50 games for bringing a gun into a locker room and Latrell Spreewell got 68 games for choking out PJ Carlesimo.

Abuse of power is a serious offense, and one that too often gets ignored, especially by men.

- - - Updated - - -


Prety sure the rule in 2022 is that a sexual relationship with a subordinate is a definite no go. Power imbalances, potential coercion, etc.

It has always been a no-go, but has taken too long to catch up with Neanderthal minds.

[M2]

Prety sure the rule in 2022 is that a sexual relationship with a subordinate is a definite no go. Power imbalances, potential coercion, etc.

Unless there was actual coercion, this seems like the worst reason ever to dynamite your team. Adults have sex.

[Boston Red]

Unless there was actual coercion, this seems like the worst reason ever to dynamite your team. Adults have sex.

I don't really agree with the rule, personally, as I know that a lot of happily married people started out as supervisor/supervised. But treating it as per se sexual harrassment/coercion has become pretty much standard dogma.

[M2]

I don't really agree with the rule, personally, as I know that a lot of happily married people started out as supervisor/supervised. But treating it as per se sexual harrassment/coercion has become pretty much standard dogma.

With the full acknowledgment there could be some unsettling elements to this story we have yet to learn, the instinct that someone must be punished because two consenting adults had sex is some neo-puritanical BS. Though I suppose it's a sign that the NBA is as corporate as anywhere else these days. It's odd because I'm simultaneously hoping nothing awful happened to the woman involved, but I'm also hoping this isn't a gross overreaction.

[Kingspoint]

With the full acknowledgment there could be some unsettling elements to this story we have yet to learn, the instinct that someone must be punished because two consenting adults had sex is some neo-puritanical BS. Though I suppose it's a sign that the NBA is as corporate as anywhere else these days. It's odd because I'm simultaneously hoping nothing awful happened to the woman involved, but I'm also hoping this isn't a gross overreaction.

Again, it's Neanderthal thinking for those who do not understand "abuse of power" is a serious offense, and in this case, sexual harassment.

[M2]

Again, it's Neanderthal thinking for those who do not understand "abuse of power" is a serious offense, and in this case, sexual harassment.

People hook up. Unless the woman involved is saying Udoka used his position to coerce or harass her, then this is a garden variety affair.

Update: Both Woj and Shams are reporting it was a consensual relationship. If so, this is not serious for anyone not involved in their personal relationships.

[RiverRat13]

With the full acknowledgment there could be some unsettling elements to this story we have yet to learn, the instinct that someone must be punished because two consenting adults had sex is some neo-puritanical BS. Though I suppose it's a sign that the NBA is as corporate as anywhere else these days. It's odd because I'm simultaneously hoping nothing awful happened to the woman involved, but I'm also hoping this isn't a gross overreaction.

Curious as to how you’d define neo-puritanical in this context.

[Kingspoint]

People hook up. Unless the woman involved is saying Udoka used his position to coerce or harass her, then this is a garden variety affair.

Update: Both Woj and Shams are reporting it was a consensual relationship. If so, this is not serious for anyone not involved in their personal relationships.

It makes me disgustingly sick how so many have no concept of what abuse of power means. It's why it continues to happen at an alarming rate.

[M2]

Curious as to how you’d define neo-puritanical in this context.

Consenting adults should be able to consent. Far as I can tell, the only person with agency here is the HR manager.

- - - Updated - - -


It makes me disgustingly sick how so many have no concept of what abuse of power means. It's why it continues to happen at an alarming rate.

I'm well aware of what it is. Given what has been reported so far, this was not it.

[Kingspoint]

For the uninformed, "consensual" is not applicable in "abuse of power" situations.

[Kingspoint]

Consenting adults should be able to consent. Far as I can tell, the only person with agency here is the HR manager.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm well aware of what it is. Given what has been reported so far, this was not it.

You clearly have zero concept of what "abuse of power" means, M2. That's the problem. Guys (and women, but mostly men) living in this world believing that they understand what "abuse of power" means, while daily allowing it to happen around them, being victims of it, and abusing power themselves. It's a cultural issue that's worse everywhere in the world than it is in the United States and it's rampant in the United States. Intelligence doesn't have anything to do with understanding what it means. Check out a book or two about it online at the library and you'll see how far off your understanding of it is. Don't believe for a second that you do.

I've gotten in the faces of hundreds of men abusing their power, so you're not alone. Unfortunately, few like me will say anything about it to another man, so the ignorance and abuse continues. It is not OK to take advantage of someone because someone has a position of power over someone else. Because the abused person "consents" to it does not make it right, OK, and in many circumstances, legal. It's because so many people don't understand the concept. There are a zillion situations of "abuse of power", but it's all formed from the same situation, one person taking advantage of another person because of social/legal position of power.

If you understood it in the least...just the basic concept of it, you never would have brought up the term "consensual". You can't change the subject, or anything else. You used the term "consensual" proving you do not understand what "abuse of power" means. The same goes for anyone else using the term, including every single reporter who relayed the "consensual" message, such as WOJ, etc., etc., etc. It's what the entire "Me, too" thing was all about, which goes to show that it wasn't even barely scratching the surface to get into peoples' heads what "abuse of power" means.

[Betterread]

For the uninformed, "consensual" is not applicable in "abuse of power" situations.

It was for Bill and Melinda Gates. He was her boss when they met. It happens a lot.

[M2]

For the uninformed, "consensual" is not appicable in "abuse of power" situations.

And abuse of power is not applicable in consensual situations. And the reporting on this is that it is being classified as consensual. If that changes, I'll have a far different outlook on the situation.

[M2]

If you understood it in the least...just the basic concept of it, you never would have brought up the term "consensual".

I didn't bring it up, it is how the team is classifying it to reporters. And I damn well know what consent means, and I'm not in a rush to have corporate policy rob the woman involved of her agency in issuing that consent.

[M2]

It was for Bill and Melinda Gates. He was her boss when they met. It happens a lot.

Humans gonna human. Crap, given the amount of time people spend at work these days it's pretty blinkered to think a certain percentage of them aren't going to get together.

And, for the record, my wife and I did meet at work, though neither one of us worked for the other. Damn glad that was before we had to fill out a mountain of paperwork.

[KoryMac5]

Relationships are not usually an issue until someone ends it...from the sounds of it this one ended poorly.

From what I read in the Athletic he was still making unwanted comments directed at her...I am sure someone was headed to the media so the Celtics decided to get in front of it.

[Boston Red]

And abuse of power is not applicable in consensual situations. And the reporting on this is that it is being classified as consensual. If that changes, I'll have a far different outlook on the situation.

I think Kingspoint is being a bit overdramatic here, but the theory at least goes that "consent" in situations like this mean about as much as it means when you're talking about a 15 year old with a 30 year old.

[Chip R]

It was for Bill and Melinda Gates. He was her boss when they met. It happens a lot.

Also Phil Jackson and Jeannie Buss.

[Betterread]

You clearly have zero concept of what "abuse of power" means, M2. That's the problem. Guys (and women, but mostly men) living in this world believing that they understand what "abuse of power" means, while daily allowing it to happen around them, being victims of it, and abusing power themselves. It's a cultural issue that's worse everywhere in the world than it is in the United States and it's rampant in the United States. Intelligence doesn't have anything to do with understanding what it means. Check out a book or two about it online at the library and you'll see how far off your understanding of it is. Don't believe for a second that you do.

I've gotten in the faces of hundreds of men abusing their power, so you're not alone. Unfortunately, few like me will say anything about it to another man, so the ignorance and abuse continues. It is not OK to take advantage of someone because someone has a position of power over someone else. Because the abused person "consents" to it does not make it right, OK, and in many circumstances, legal. It's because so many people don't understand the concept. There are a zillion situations of "abuse of power", but it's all formed from the same situation, one person taking advantage of another person because of social/legal position of power.

If you understood it in the least...just the basic concept of it, you never would have brought up the term "consensual". You can't change the subject, or anything else. You used the term "consensual" proving you do not understand what "abuse of power" means. The same goes for anyone else using the term, including every single reporter who relayed the "consensual" message, such as WOJ, etc., etc., etc. It's what the entire "Me, too" thing was all about, which goes to show that it wasn't even barely scratching the surface to get into peoples' heads what "abuse of power" means.
You’re not wrong and your lack of inhibition in confronting (hopefully clear) abusers is laudable. However, there is a huge grey area around the definition of consent that your are not including in this diatribe. I mean, if you lump all non-equal relationships into the abusive category, then a lot of budding diverse relationships will never happen. And that’s not good.

[M2]

You’re not wrong and your lack of inhibition in confronting (hopefully clear) abusers is laudable. However, there is a huge grey area around the definition of consent that your are not including in this diatribe. I mean, if you lump all non-equal relationships into the abusive category, then a lot of budding diverse relationships will never happen. And that’s not good.

Exactly. And if Udoka has mistreated the woman involved in any way, I'm all for him paying the price for that. But if all they did was get busy, that's crossing into intrusive (IMO).

I'd like to add it's maddening that the Celtics will not specify what team rule it is he violated. For instance, if it's mistreatment of a fellow employee, then they should say that out loud. That's not violating anyone's privacy to note that he did wrong by the other person.

We probably ought to consider the basketball side of this equation. There's a potential path here where the Celtics are a mess. Will Hardy would have been a strong replacement if Ainge hadn't swept him away for the Jazz job. Joe Mazzulla is a far less certain interim appointment. And if it all goes wrong, Jaylen Brown could be the next prominent player who's hitting the trade market. If they get to midseason and he's signaling he wants to go somewhere else after 2024, then it's going to be full palace intrigue with the Celtics.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Newest scuttlebutt is that his comments made her feel uncomfortable enough to go to HR.

That's the line, I think.

[RiverRat13]

From The Athletic:

"The situation remains vague, but details emerged late Thursday that while the relationship began as consensual, the woman recently accused Udoka of “making unwanted comments” toward her, which led to an internal review."

[Rojo Rijo]

Matt Barnes response to finding out the details of the situation makes it seem a lot worse than the few details that have come to light so far.

edit: one rumor i've heard is that the female was the SR VPs wife

[WVRed]

Newest scuttlebutt is that his comments made her feel uncomfortable enough to go to HR.

That's the line, I think.

Without getting this into P&R territory, one of the comments on Twitter I saw yesterday was that Udokas camp leaked this out because they wanted Screamin A Smith (and others) to immediately start defending Udoka.

As for Mazulla, as somewhat of a WVU fan, I’d kinda like to see this be Huggins last year and they make a play for Mazulla at the end of the season. There’s no succession plan in place and a coach with NBA connections would be pretty attractive in Morgantown. I’d put the odds of that happening on slim to nil.

[M2]

Newest scuttlebutt is that his comments made her feel uncomfortable enough to go to HR.

That's the line, I think.

And that's my frustration here. If the issue is wholly inappropriate behavior toward a fellow employee, say that out loud. Because that makes it clear the offense is not the hanky-panky. Mind you, if they say that then the question becomes why is he being suspended and not fired? But if you're worried about that question, it's probably because you picked the wrong option.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Without getting this into P&R territory, one of the comments on Twitter I saw yesterday was that Udokas camp leaked this out because they wanted Screamin A Smith (and others) to immediately start defending Udoka.

As for Mazulla, as somewhat of a WVU fan, I’d kinda like to see this be Huggins last year and they make a play for Mazulla at the end of the season. There’s no succession plan in place and a coach with NBA connections would be pretty attractive in Morgantown. I’d put the odds of that happening on slim to nil.

As more information comes out, this runs the risk of being a pretty sad chapter in the NBA book.

I hope not, but the drip-drip of information never seems to be a good thing.

[Bourgeois Zee]

And that's my frustration here. If the issue is wholly inappropriate behavior toward a fellow employee, say that out loud. Because that makes it clear the offense is not the hanky-panky. Mind you, if they say that then the question becomes why is he being suspended and not fired? But if you're worried about that question, it's probably because you picked the wrong option.

Any hooking up in office culture between a boss and a subordinate is a big no-no. It's a power imbalance thing. Hooking up between co-workers? Fine. Cool. Knock yourself out.

But if you're the boss (and Udoka is), you can't let your little head determine where your big head lays down at night.

[M2]

Any hooking up in office culture between a boss and a subordinate is a big no-no. It's a power imbalance thing. Hooking up between co-workers? Fine. Cool. Knock yourself out.

But if you're the boss (and Udoka is), you can't let your little head determine where your big head lays down at night.

It's fairly unlikely Udoka is her boss. Obviously the coach is senior staff, but he runs the team on the court and the coaches. The woman involved is neither, so she'd fall under the larger umbrella that reports up to Brad Stevens (could be training staff, could be front office, could be any number of business related jobs). Point being, she's not a direct report to him or someone who works in the division he controls (players/coaches).

[Bourgeois Zee]

It's fairly unlikely Udoka is her boss. Obviously the coach is senior staff, but he runs the team on the court and the coaches. The woman involved is neither, so she'd fall under the larger umbrella that reports up to Brad Stevens (could be training staff, could be front office, could be any number of business related jobs). Point being, she's not a direct report to him or someone who works in the division he controls (players/coaches).

Direct or indirect, he has no business pooping where he eats.

[M2]

Direct or indirect, he has no business pooping where he eats.

Disagree. People smash, usually with people they spend time around (aka at their workplace, where many of us spend way too much time). If it's not direct, then people deserve to make their own decisions.

[KoryMac5]

This is a fire about to get out of control with the Celtics...I can't imagine the tension inside that office right now. Which is another reason to not have office relationships way too much drama. Especially when you are in a leadership position.

Supposedly (unconfirmed) coach had an affair with a staffer who is also married to a Celtics executive...Celtics have been investigating this situation for over a month and found multiple violations of conduct...including unwanted comments and advances.

I feel a resignation coming on in the coming days as the slow trickle of information comes out

[Revering4Blue]

Any other Hawks fans on here? I'm excited for the season with Trae and Dejounte in the back court.

IMO, the key to their season may well be De’Andre Hunter’s health. They’re a different team without him. They reportedly offered Hunter, Collins and a draft pick for Durrant and the Nets turned the offer down.

If Bogdanovic is healthy, the bench should have more punch from the guards/wings. with Bogo and the Holiday brothers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bourgeois Zee]

Disagree. People smash, usually with people they spend time around (aka at their workplace, where many of us spend way too much time). If it's not direct, then people deserve to make their own decisions.

He's in a position of authority.

That makes it gross.

And this ultimately isn't just about the sex-- it's about the discomfort afterwards too.

[texasdave]

The National Anthem will not be played prior to the start of the game at the Boston Garden this season. In its place will be something a bit more apropos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3fYvXkAT8

Tempted by the fruit of another indeed.

[dubc47834]

I think Kingspoint is being a bit overdramatic here, but the theory at least goes that "consent" in situations like this mean about as much as it means when you're talking about a 15 year old with a 30 year old.

THIS THIS totally THIS

[dubc47834]

Any hooking up in office culture between a boss and a subordinate is a big no-no. It's a power imbalance thing. Hooking up between co-workers? Fine. Cool. Knock yourself out.

But if you're the boss (and Udoka is), you can't let your little head determine where your big head lays down at night.

I think one thing people are not looking at is, and I don't know, but is Udoka and the coach in charge of the players and his staff? I think so, but was she on his staff? If so, he shoulda been totally hands off. If she just worked in whatever other part of the team, then that stuff happens. It's not right on his part as an engaged man, but it happens!

[KoryMac5]

Thibs actually said that Evan Fournier is the frontrunner to start in the backcourt with Jalen Brunson. Not sure that is the way to go...but best of luck Knicks fans.

[Puffy]

Thibs actually said that Evan Fournier is the frontrunner to start in the backcourt with Jalen Brunson. Not sure that is the way to go...but best of luck Knicks fans.

All I wanted all offseason was for the Knicks to include Fournier in any trade they made. Any. Trade!

[adkindo]

MIKE BREEN: HOME DESTROYED IN MASSIVE FIRE

https://www.tmz.com/2022/09/29/nba-commentator-mike-breen-long-island-home-fire-investigation/

[adkindo]

hate the Celtics, but I do hope they do well this year under Joe Mazzulla....

https://compote.slate.com/images/f815ed80-6930-4c91-90fb-318aa94011b7.jpg

[Bourgeois Zee]

Who's Team Turmoil this season? The candidates, so far, include:

Phoenix
Jae Crowder is unhappy and wants out. Robert Sarver's shadow will loom until he deals the team. Deandre Ayton hasn't spoken to Monty Williams since the season ended. That's a lot of issues. I think they're the leader in the clubhouse, at this point.

Boston
Boston's issues revolve around their head coach, but it's a massive issue. Boston's newspaper guys will be sure to be fair-minded, I'm sure, as the team works through the process with a super young inexperienced coach.

Brooklyn
Brooklyn, of course, can also be counted on to do something stupid, especially with Kyrie on Twitter. (His Twitter account proves that the Duke education is highly circumspect, if nothing else.) KD is there too, unhappy for reasons that defy reason.

LA Lakers
The Lakers have Russ Westbrook and Pat Beverley, two of the ornriest players to ever lace up sneakers. They're aging and LeBron might throw them all under the bus. Oh, and AD is made of glass. What could go wrong?

Any others?

[KoryMac5]

Tyler Herro 4 yrs 130 million dollar extension

[M2]

Tyler Herro 4 yrs 130 million dollar extension

That is a hideous contract.

[Bourgeois Zee]

That is a hideous contract.

$30M per season seems rich. Wonder what Riley sees that you don't?

[M2]

$30M per season seems rich. Wonder what Riley sees that you don't?

Probably the next trade he's going to make.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Probably the next trade he's going to make.

This handcuffs him into not being able to deal Herro for this season, at least.

[M2]

This handcuffs him into not being able to deal Herro for this season, at least.

That's fine. He's still cheap this season ($5.7M). When the extension kicks in, then he gives them a salary to slot to swap for a superstar.

[SteelSD]

Thank god the NBA is back, preseason or not. The Sixers, sans Embiid, Tucker, and Harden, strolled into Brooklyn, dropped 42 on the Nets in the first quarter, and despite blowing a 20-point lead, pulled away in the third to coast to a 19-point win.

Tyrese Maxey went off- 20 points in 14 minutes and was the best player on the court. He just keeps improving yearly.

Got my first look at De'Anthony Melton as a Sixer. While tying for the team lead with three of the Sixers 20 steals (!), he really isn't much of a ballhandler and his shot was off all night (2-for-10). Had some curious decisions driving into trouble.

I'd still prefer to have Melton handle the rock if my choices are him, Matisse Thybulle, and Paul Reed. Every time I see Thybulle try to dribble, I think of how badly I stink at paddleball.

Montrezl Foultroublz- Harrell was his usual productive self on offense, with 10 points, four offensive boards, and three assists in 12 minutes. Of course, he also picked up 6 fouls in the same span. Add in Paul Reed, and the primary backup bigs combined for 25 points and 10 boards in 32 minutes.

I'm going to hold off on my annual Isaiah Joe fanfest. He shot great in the Summer League, was 3-for-6 from three tonight, but I'm going to say he stinks this year. Maybe that'll help once the regular season starts.

Julian Champagnie, undrafted out of St. John's, looked pretty good with 15 points (5-for-10, 3-for-7 from deep), 7 boards, and 2 steals in 18 minutes of C-squad action. Jaden Springer was also pretty good after the Sixers went deep into the bench. His handle has definitely improved and the game seems to be slowing down for him on the offensive end. His jump shot release is still a little slow and he tends to want to drive into traffic too often, mostly without an open lane or a real plan. Defensively though, he's a menace and the kid can jump out of the gym. Work. In. Progress.

Man, was it nice to see a squad missing three starters resemble a starting-quality NBA unit. Even the bench resembled an actual NBA bench squad.

Ben Simmons played 19 minutes. While he hasn't played for a year and a half, I didn't see anything to suggest that he spent any of that time working on his game. Not a surprise, but he still can't shoot a lick, and seemed to be basically freelancing the whole time. The contest was on the YES network, but I forgot about that and didn't anticipate a Simmons post-game interview. When I figured it out, I browser-hung up on him.

[Kingspoint]

Who's Who of Sonics legends in the "refurbished" Key Arena tonight. Would have been nice to see.

Scrooge Jody Allen doesn't televise it for Trailblazer fans, so they are blacked out from the Clippers' (home team in this one as Balmer gives a speech) broadcast or League Pass streaming.

Cheapskate Jody Allen caved in to public pressure (though it was probably a personal message from Dame that did it I'm unaware of) and will send the broadcasting team (bare bones, I imagine) on the road to do the broadcast of regular season games instead of from their dens in their homes back in the Northwest.

[Boston Red]

Just saw the video of Green hitting Poole at practice.

https://media.tenor.com/rlyqxiRiunEAAAAM/right-to-jail-jail.gif

[Rojo Rijo]

Yep, Green connected big time. Not that it's going to surprise anyone in regards to Drays character but I can't help but consider that it's just another thing Dray does, takes that team to an uncomfortable level of intensity, even before the season starts. Not justifying violence at all, just that im not surprised in the least bit.

[adkindo]

I watched the Draymond video.....and for the record, I am no fan of the man....never have been. I agree a suspension is appropriate because he did initiate contact when he bumped Poole with his chest. Still, Poole responded with an aggressive shove which was an escalator in the conflict, and Draymond responded. I think he responded with too much violence....thus the suspension. I will say from Poole's angle, he should take this much as a learning moment.......in life you can only control how you respond, not how someone responds to the action you take. He made the decision to escalate, and I am sure he expected Draymond to return a similar shove which would result in the skirmish being broken up....but Draymond responded how he did, not how Poole projected/expected.

Not trying to sound like a tough guy. Adults....especially men of that size, should almost never swing on someone with a closed fist. The result can often be worse than the adolescent bloody nose. At the same time, do not shove another person that may respond by knocking you the F out. The rules are very different in person....it is not a message board or twitter. I actually have some concern about younger people going forward that have become far too comfortable "being tough guys/gals" with a keyboard, and not be able to adjust when they are not in front of a screen using an anonymous ID.

[SteelSD]

I watched the Draymond video.....and for the record, I am no fan of the man....never have been. I agree a suspension is appropriate because he did initiate contact when he bumped Poole with his chest. Still, Poole responded with an aggressive shove which was an escalator in the conflict, and Draymond responded. I think he responded with too much violence....thus the suspension. I will say from Poole's angle, he should take this much as a learning moment.......in life you can only control how you respond, not how someone responds to the action you take. He made the decision to escalate, and I am sure he expected Draymond to return a similar shove which would result in the skirmish being broken up....but Draymond responded how he did, not how Poole projected/expected.

Not trying to sound like a tough guy. Adults....especially men of that size, should almost never swing on someone with a closed fist. The result can often be worse than the adolescent bloody nose. At the same time, do not shove another person that may respond by knocking you the F out. The rules are very different in person....it is not a message board or twitter. I actually have some concern about younger people going forward that have become far too comfortable "being tough guys/gals" with a keyboard, and not be able to adjust when they are not in front of a screen using an anonymous ID.

If an individual steps up on someone the way Greene did to Poole, they should expect to get punched, not shoved. Greene instigated the entire thing with that one action. That's who he is. Bobby Portis was suspended 8 games for a punch in practice in 2017. With the increased emphasis on player safety, Greene should (but won't) get 20 games for his behavior. If I were Jordan Poole, who's looking for a real payday (and like right now), I'd simply tell the Warriors that I'm not playing for them while Greene is on the team and see how that shakes out.

[adkindo]

If an individual steps up on someone the way Greene did to Poole, they should expect to get punched, not shoved. Greene instigated the entire thing with that one action. That's who he is. Bobby Portis was suspended 8 games for a punch in practice in 2017. With the increased emphasis on player safety, Greene should (but won't) get 20 games for his behavior. If I were Jordan Poole, who's looking for a real payday (and like right now), I'd simply tell the Warriors that I'm not playing for them while Greene is on the team and see how that shakes out.

OK, but he didn't punch him. Poole shoved him.....he escalated. If he would have punched Greene, I would agree with Poole being suspended. I would not complain if Greene got 20 games. I think the only place I think I differ with some others is I do not see Poole as a 100% victim. I see him as the less aggressive....as someone that took action that was clearly below the threshold of any penalty from team, but action that got him laid out nonetheless.

I think my simple message applies to everyone, and one that I did not really grasp until well into my adult years. Not everyone thinks or responds how I would....so I have to consider that before any action I decide to take. It does not justify an over the top response to me, but by that time it may be too late for that debate. We see it everyday where someone throws up a middle finger or purposely cuts someone off in traffic "to make a point".....and the response is the other person pulling a firearm.

[RedTeamGo!]

Green is a scumbag. Always has been. Always will be.

[RiverRat13]

If an individual steps up on someone the way Greene did to Poole, they should expect to get punched, not shoved. Greene instigated the entire thing with that one action. That's who he is. Bobby Portis was suspended 8 games for a punch in practice in 2017. With the increased emphasis on player safety, Greene should (but won't) get 20 games for his behavior. If I were Jordan Poole, who's looking for a real payday (and like right now), I'd simply tell the Warriors that I'm not playing for them while Greene is on the team and see how that shakes out.

I think he’d hurt his own value if he sat out. Not saying it is right, but other players wouldn’t respect him and would see him as a coward if he went that route.

[SteelSD]

OK, but he didn't punch him. Poole shoved him.....he escalated. If he would have punched Greene, I would agree with Poole being suspended. I would not complain if Greene got 20 games. I think the only place I think I differ with some others is I do not see Poole as a 100% victim. I see him as the less aggressive....as someone that took action that was clearly below the threshold of any penalty from team, but action that got him laid out nonetheless.

I think my simple message applies to everyone, and one that I did not really grasp until well into my adult years. Not everyone thinks or responds how I would....so I have to consider that before any action I decide to take. It does not justify an over the top response to me, but by that time it may be too late for that debate. We see it everyday where someone throws up a middle finger or purposely cuts someone off in traffic "to make a point".....and the response is the other person pulling a firearm.

The initial aggressive action, and contact, was made by Greene. After that, he gets what he gets. He was clearly the instigator, the aggressor, and the escalator of the situation. Had Poole swung rather than shoved Greene away (which he had every right to do), I'd have no issue with Poole's actions. The guy has a right to separate himself from the threat and to defend himself. Had Poole, instead, run up on Greene the same way, my thoughts would be different.


I think he’d hurt his own value if he sat out. Not saying it is right, but other players wouldn’t respect him and would see him as a coward if he went that route.

I think in a game where $$$$ rule the roost, players would completely understand if Poole didn't want to be subject to practicing and playing with a teammate who has already shown that he's willing to seriously injure him. Even if his intention isn't to sit out, I'd still play that card, and would definitely level a "I'm not going to sign long-term" threat to leverage Greene off the team. Hell, Ben Simmons got completely horrible press for sitting out the majority of last season for various "reasons", but his Nets teammates welcomed the jerk with smiles and open arms.

[M2]

I'm seeing where Dray is now being referred to as One Punch Man.

[texasdave]

Granted this is preseason ball, but Tari Eason has put up 45 points and 18 rebounds in 45 minutes of playing time.

[SteelSD]

Granted this is preseason ball, but Tari Eason has put up 45 points and 18 rebounds in 45 minutes of playing time.

Saw some highlights of him. Looks like a very high motor guy with some 3-and-D skills. Hope he does well. I always like it when mid-to-low first rounders make good.

[Kingspoint]

Blazers showing their improved Defense in Sacramento tonight....down 70-53 at the Half.

Kings have more Assists than the Blazers have FG's or Rebounds.

[Kingspoint]

Granted this is preseason ball, but Tari Eason has put up 45 points and 18 rebounds in 45 minutes of playing time.

He was my 3rd choice for the Blazers (for what they needed) in the draft after Keegan Murray and Jalen Duren. Sharpe will be great, though, if Grant resigns. Just would have rather had another big instead of Sharpe.

[M2]

Blazers showing their improved Defense in Sacramento tonight....down 70-53 at the Half.

Kings have more Assists than the Blazers have FG's or Rebounds.

I question whether Dame and Simons can play together. Also think they're going to insta-regret keeping Nurk

[Bourgeois Zee]

Some pre-season takeaways:

- James Wiseman looks pretty good. Strong. Kuminga looks good as well. Like them as a second unit big duo along with either Poole or Thompson. Who's the backup PG for the Warriors? DiVincenzo? That's not ideal.

- Speaking of backup PGs, Kendrick Nunn has looked dynamite this off-season. He's scoring at all three levels and is often wide open due to James, Davis, or Westbrook drives. Could be a sneaky good fantasy guy on that team. Will definitely get lots fo chances to succeed. Or fail.

- Keegan Murray looks legit-- offensively and defensively. He looks like he's not going to be thrown to the wolves either. That King second unit-- Davion Mitchell, Malik Monk, Terence Davis, Murray, and Richaun Holmes-- is a good one. Murray can move up to the wing, and they can bring in Trey Lyles too, if they want to go big. I'm getting old school, pre-knee surgeries Terry Cummings vibes from Murray.

- Assuming they eventually learn how to shoot again, the Clippers look like they're going to be a tough, tough out. I love John Wall with Kawhi and PG. That team can rebound, defend, and run. Wall looks like his best Wizard self (aside from the brutal shooting display). Like that team.

- Atlanta's backcourt is going to score early and often, and Dejounte Murray might pull an Oscar and average a triple double. But they have nothing underneath. What happened to Clint Capela? I thought he was good defensively? He has as many blocks as you and I.

- I thought Trey Murphy was going to be a major contributor to the Pels last season, then watched as he collected splinters from various benches across the league. This pre-season he again looks like a real player. Unlike Roger Daltrey, I might get fooled again.

[dubc47834]

I question whether Dame and Simons can play together. Also think they're going to insta-regret keeping Nurk

Yeah...I don't see the Blazers making the playoffs this year, if they do, it'll be a minor miracle.

[Kingspoint]

I question whether Dame and Simons can play together. Also think they're going to insta-regret keeping Nurk

It's ridiculously stupid. It's like they don't understand why Stotts was fired. You can't play three Guards if two of them are short and poor Defensively. C.J. is a 1000 times better Defensively than Simons, and Simons developed this "I'm a stud attitude, so I don't have to give 100% effort".

The solution is easy. Start Winslow and Hart with Little and Simons off the bench.

- - - Updated - - -

Hand the ROY trophy to Keegan Murray right now.

Kings make the playoffs and they have good depth.

[Kingspoint]

Yeah...I don't see the Blazers making the playoffs this year, if they do, it'll be a minor miracle.

Don't know if they do, either, but I am going to drop several thousand on the Over 39-1/2 for a win total. Dame is healthy and only once under Dame did they not exceed the win total. If Simons, Little and Payton came off the bench and Hart started at the 2 (Winslow at the 3), they would make the playoffs easily. With Simons starting, that's a major problem.

[M2]

Did someone say over/unders? Here's we go with my guesstimates. Pulled the numbers from the Vegas Insider site. I assume they'll keep moving and maybe there's multiple other lines, but if anyone's wondering that's where I got the numbers from.

EAST

Boston - 53.5

Under. Too much turmoil with that team. I do think Jaylen Brown may be about to have his best season, though that might lead to more drama if he's not extended.

Milwaukee Bucks - 52.5

Over. I think they add another wing shooter along the way and that Giannis gets a 3rd MVP.

Philadelphia 76ers - 50.5

Over. They've got no excuses. Morey added serious depth to this roster. Harden and Harris both could have bounceback seasons.

Brooklyn Nets - 50.5

Easiest under ever. I think the play-in bracket is their absolute ceiling. How/when/if they sell Kyrie is going to be their biggest drama.

Miami Heat - 48.5

Don't feel great about this pick, but I'll go with under. 48 or 49 wins seems about right, but I'm guessing intermittent health costs them a little bit.

Cleveland Cavaliers - 47.5

Under, though not by a lot. I think it might get hard before they make it look easy. Not a lot of depth and other teams are going to attack SpidaLand.

Atlanta Hawks - 45.5

Over. Dejounte Murray covers a lot of bases and De'Andre Hunter is looking like maybe it's his time to shine. If they figure out Okongwu >> Capela, they should be good.

Toronto Raptors - 45.5

Over. I take it as a given this team will hit the over. They've got a lot of guys who can put in a shift.

Chicago Bulls - 41.5

Over. People might be sleeping on this team. Yes, they fell apart late last season, but they've got go-to scorers and I think Coby White and Pat Williams will keep getting better.

New York Knicks - 38.5

Under. I'm thinking Thibs doesn't make it to Christmas. Just not sure how this team is supposed to fit together.

Charlotte Hornets - 35.5

Under. This team reeks of the lottery. I expect selling guys (Hayward, Rozier) for draft picks to be their thing this season.

Washington Wizards - 35.5

Over. If Beal and Porzinzis stay healthy, they've got a collection of role players and young guys who could take a step forward. They should be play-in contenders.

Detroit Pistons - 29.5

Under, though if Ivey figure things out quickly they could be better than a doormat.

Orlando Magic - 26.5

Under. I want to pick the over b/c Banchero should be a leading ROY contender, but I don't trust any of their guards.

Indiana Pacers - 23.5

Over, and a pretty easy over at that. They have a PG to run things (Haliburton) and a collection of shooters, wing defenders and versatile bigs. Mathurin looks like a player. They should show some signs of life.

WEST

Phoenix Suns - 52.5

Under. Chris Paul has to get older at some point, and the ownership situation combined with last year's early exit should up the anxiousness level of this team.

Los Angeles Clippers - 52.5

Over. They're loaded. Can they stay healthy for a full year? No clue, but they're loaded. I don't think Kawhi & PG13 stay healthy all the way through the playoff. Yet through the season seems reasonable.

Golden State Warriors - 51.5

Over. They'll smooth over the Dray-Poole situation. And they are deep. I question whether they want to burn the matches to get over 55 wins, but 51.5 seems like a comfortable over for them.

Denver Nuggets - 49.5

Over. They were a MASH unit last year and they won 48. Now Murray and Porter are back. Also, Bruce Brown was a sneaky good pickup.

Dallas Mavericks - 48.5

Over. I hemmed and hawed on this one, but Luka might go supernova and Christian Wood should be able to fill up a box score.

Memphis Grizzlies - 48.5

Under. Surprised their number is this low, but it probably reflects a lot of people figuring (like me) they'll take a step back before another leap forward. Mid-to-upper 40s seems about right for them.

Minnesota Timberwolves - 48.5

Under, just barely. Not so much a reflection on them as it's crowded at the top in the West. Also don't trust Russell at PG.

Los Angeles Lakers - 45.5

Under. I mean, just no way on that number. I actually thought they did a reasonable job of finding role guys this summer, but they're still a long way away.

New Orleans Pelicans - 44.5

Over. I'm going with PeliCANs this season. They should be challenging for top six. Really impressed by Willie Green as a coach.

Portland Trail Blazers - 39.5

Under. It's a math thing for me. There's nine better teams about them here and one better team below them on this list. Hard to win 40 if you're at #11.

Sacramento Kings - 33.5

Over. A full season of Sabonis (he's really good) and what looks like instant karma with Keegan Murray have me thinking the Kings can at least make the play-in.

Utah Jazz - 24.5

Over. Their number is so low, it's hard to do worse. And they still have too many reasonably talent guys on their roster. Ainge needs to do more clearcutting.

Oklahoma City Thunder - 23.5

Under. I like the aesthetics of SGA and Giddey together. I just feel like the Chet-less Thunder will be a purposeful mess.

Houston Rockets - 23.5

Over. They're crazy young and there's no PG, but they've got scoring ability. They should be a decent trap game team.

San Antonio Spurs - 22.5

Under. They're about as bad as a team can get.

[SteelSD]

I think I may ask this every time the Sixers play in Cleveland, but who is the drunk guy doing color commentary for the Cavs again?

[texasdave]

Why is Gregg Popovich still coaching? He will be 74 this season, and the team rebuild looks as if it will take 2 years at the minimum. I just don't get it at all. If the Spurs had a team that could compete for the title, then fine. But this squad is a ways off.

[SteelSD]

Why is Gregg Popovich still coaching? He will be 74 this season, and the team rebuild looks as if it will take 2 years at the minimum. I just don't get it at all. If the Spurs had a team that could compete for the title, then fine. But this squad is a ways off.

I don't know, but CAN SOMEONE TAKE THE CAV'S COLOR COMMENTATOR'S KEYS, please?? If that guy drives home, he's gonna' hurt him somebody.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think I may ask this every time the Sixers play in Cleveland, but who is the drunk guy doing color commentary for the Cavs again?

I’ve reported this post for Austin Carr slander.

[SteelSD]

I’ve reported this post for Austin Carr slander.

The guy is just randomly giggling at stuff. WHY????

He just tried to explain what a "catch and shoot" guy was. He got the first part, but the second was a severe strugglebus event. I can't stop laughing. OMG.

[texasdave]

I suppose you are talking about the Carr keys?

[Bourgeois Zee]

I suppose you are talking about the Carr keys?

That's Dad joke Hall of Fame, right there.

[Kingspoint]

From NBC Sports w/ NBC Sports' comments:

Tari Eason logged 28 minutes off the bench Monday and finished with 17 points, 12 rebounds, a steal and a block. Fresh off a 24-point, eight-rebound effort on Saturday, the "Bucket from the Bayou" posted a big double-double in another strong performance. Big games have become the norm for the LSU product after an impressive Summer League and a fantastic preseason. His fantasy stock is on the rise, yet he’s still available in most drafts as a last-round selection, making him a tremendous value with plenty of upside. Jae’Sean Tate injured his knee in this one, and any limitations would open up more minutes for Eason.

Oct 10, 2022, 10:32 PM ET


But, don't stop there with the Rockets' optimism...

Kevin Porter Jr contributed 21 points, seven rebounds, six assists, three steals and three triples as Houston lost to Miami 118-110 on Monday. KPJ teased a triple-double while nabbing three steals, showcasing just how productive he can be for fantasy managers on any given night. Efficiency and turnovers remain his Achilles heels, but the counting stats and defensive contributions are enough to make him an intriguing fantasy selection in Round 7 or later. He and Jalen Green (who scored 25 points in this one) should be a box office backcourt tandem in 2022-23 for the up-and-coming Rockets.

Oct 10, 2022, 10:22 PM ET


Jalen Green went off for a game-high 25 points to go with five assists, four rebounds and a steal in Monday’s loss to Miami. Green was red-hot in this one and he also hit 5-of-10 triples as the game’s leading scorer. That’s two games in a row with at least 23 points and four triples. After a rough start to his rookie season, Green finished on a tear, and it seems he’s picked up right where he left off heading into Year 2. Green’s ADP has continued to rise, and he’s going as early as Round 5 in some drafts thanks to his elite scoring ability and expected sophomore leap. No matter his fantasy finish, Green and his teammates in Houston figure to be one of the most exciting teams in the Association.

Oct 10, 2022, 10:19 PM ET

[Kingspoint]

What do you expect from Gordon Hayward this season?

[Kingspoint]

Never underestimate the genius of Pops. He may see a quick turnaround for the franchise.

[M2]

What do you expect from Gordon Hayward this season?

Less than 50 games. Could be a popular trade target if he's healthy at the deadline.

[Kingspoint]

After watching Golden State's 2nd and 3rd Stringers totally dismantle every lineup Portland threw at them, there's just no way I feel confident that they can cover the 39-1/2 win total. While I still feel that Chauncey will someday be a very good head coach, it's more likely that it won't be for another 3 to 5 seasons, like most NBA Coaches that eventually become good Head Coaches. It's one of the hardest jobs in sports to be good at and it takes a ton of seasoning for it to happen. Chauncey didn't have the benefit of getting any real Assistant Coach responsibilities before coming to Portland. Yes, he was on a bench, the Clippers for example, but his responsibilities were few. He's really struggling with the teaching aspect of Head Coaching, in addition to getting his players to buy into his ideas. He also struggles mightily with in-game coaching and flow. He struggles with the refs and has not earned their respect. He still is in over his head at this point and he can't get his players to give effort. He's got years to go before he is even at Stotts' level.

Now, the 33-1/2 win total of the Kings looks very interesting if it wasn't for a major problem. The payoff is horrible if you take the over at -160. Portland's over is -115.

[Rojo Rijo]

Opening day/night for the NBA. I'll throw out my preseason predictions:

MVP - Jokic
ROY - Banchero
Sixth Man - Poole
DPOY - Gobert
MIP - Brunson

East finishing order - PHI, MIL, BOS, MIA, ATL, CHI, CLE, TOR, BKN, ORL, NYK, DET, IND, WAS, CHA
West finishing order - GSW, DEN, MEM, PHO, LAC, MIN, DAL, NOP, LAL, POR, SAC, UTH, OKC, HOU, SAS

ECF - Philadelphia defeats Milwaukee 4-2
WCF - Golden State defeats Denver 4-3
Finals - Golden State defeats Philadelphia 4-3

[BuckeyeRed27]

Opening day/night for the NBA. I'll throw out my preseason predictions:

MVP - Jokic
ROY - Banchero
Sixth Man - Poole
DPOY - Gobert
MIP - Brunson

East finishing order - PHI, MIL, BOS, MIA, ATL, CHI, CLE, TOR, BKN, ORL, NYK, DET, IND, WAS, CHA
West finishing order - GSW, DEN, MEM, PHO, LAC, MIN, DAL, NOP, LAL, POR, SAC, UTH, OKC, HOU, SAS

ECF - Philadelphia defeats Milwaukee 4-2
WCF - Golden State defeats Denver 4-3
Finals - Golden State defeats Philadelphia 4-3

I don’t think they’ll give it to Jokic again. My guess is Giannis for MVP, but I agree with the rest of your picks.

East West
MIL. DEN
PHI. LAC
CLE. GSW
MIA. MEM
BOS. NOP
TOR. PHO
BKN. DAL
ATL. MIN
DET. LAL
CHI. POR
NYK. HOU
ORL. SAC
IND. OKC
WAS. UTH
CHA. SAS

I think Milwaukee beats Denver for the title.

[goreds2]

I am stoked for the season. Go 76ers! It will be interesting to hear all your comments during the season.

Tuesday, October 18, 2022

PHI
@
BOS
7:30 PM
TNT


LAL
@
GS
10:00 PM
TNT

[Kingspoint]

I see the NBA is still fixed.

Harden should have been called for an Offensive foul for sticking his leg out.

That was such an easy call to make against Harden.

Harden was not getting those calls last season (for the first time in his career, except for part of the 2020-2021 season).

If the NBA has decided that they are going to give Harden those flop calls again, PHI should march their way to the East Finals (and we'll see from there).

[Kingspoint]

The only reason BOS needs a Head Coach is to reign in Tatum and all of the stupid mistakes he makes. He's always placed himself more important than the team. He's the most talented player on the team, but he's far from the best player on the team. Brown is the best. Smart is the 2nd best. Horford is the 3rd best.

I do agree with most that there's no road that doesn't lead to Embiid getting the MVP.

- - - Updated - - -


I am stoked for the season. Go 76ers! It will be interesting to hear all your comments during the season.

Tuesday, October 18, 2022

PHI
@
BOS
7:30 PM
TNT


LAL
@
GS
10:00 PM
TNT

When you start the season BOS/PHI, how can you not be stoked?

[Kingspoint]

I'm not going to make it through a year of Van Gundy.

[M2]

When you start the season BOS/PHI, how can you not be stoked?

And then they go 63-63 in the 1st half. Talk about starting off with a bang.

[SteelSD]

Welp, if both Tatum and Brown are on, then you better hope no one else on the Celtics pitches in. The whole story of the game for the Sixers is just not getting enough stops and then, when they started getting them in the fourth, they couldn't make a shot to get back in it. I'll take the offensive effort every night of the week (and Harden was ridiculously good), and the defense wasn't that bad. The Celtics just kept making mid-range twos. They live by that, but they'll die by it too. Way it goes.

Oh, and PJ Tucker does not need to be playing 33 minutes a night. Give him a rough and tumble 21-25 and call it good.

[M2]

Welp, if both Tatum and Brown are on, then you better hope no one else on the Celtics pitches in. The whole story of the game for the Sixers is just not getting enough stops and then, when they started getting them in the fourth, they couldn't make a shot to get back in it. I'll take the offensive effort every night of the week (and Harden was ridiculously good), and the defense wasn't that bad. The Celtics just kept making mid-range twos. They live by that, but they'll die by it too. Way it goes.

Oh, and PJ Tucker does not need to be playing 33 minutes a night. Give him a rough and tumble 21-25 and call it good.

Boston exploited the new fast break rules pretty well. They're going to get a lot of transition buckets. And I was impressed that Tatum and Brown combined for 70 when neither one was hot from 3. I do think Brown might have a massive season. The Brogdon addition worked real well for the first game out. He and Grant Williams were easily the two best bench players tonight.


Philly needs more out of that 2nd unit. Somebody's got to play pick-and-roll with Trez. Shake might be a good fit with the guys they're running out there. Harden looked good, Toby was all right against a tough matchup for him and Maxey woke up late in the game.

[SteelSD]

Boston exploited the new fast break rules pretty well. They're going to get a lot of transition buckets. And I was impressed that Tatum and Brown combined for 70 when neither one was hot from 3. I do think Brown might have a massive season. The Brogdon addition worked real well for the first game out. He and Grant Williams were easily the two best bench players tonight.


Philly needs more out of that 2nd unit. Somebody's got to play pick-and-roll with Trez. Shake might be a good fit with the guys they're running out there. Harden looked good, Toby was all right against a tough matchup for him and Maxey woke up late in the game.

Rivers' rotation is too rigid to get much out of the bench and there isn't much to squeeze out of the 13 total shots they got tonight. But to your point, they need something more offensively than what they got tonight, even with four starters combining for 100 points. Against Boston, you're usually going to win a game when that happens. But on a night where they clearly needed more stops, throwing Niang out there for 12 minutes, and PJ Tucker (who clearly wasn't stopping Tatum) for 33, while giving Thybulle 20 seconds? Yeesh.

[M2]

I just saw something shocking. Buddy Hield is 50th in NBA history in 3-pointers made. I can't even process that.

[M2]

It's the 1st game of the year, so it's way to early for things to be set in stone, but the Lakers look wretched. LeBron's playing like a mortal and AD has been actively terrible.

[texasdave]

One game in, and it doesn't appear that any off-season drama is negatively affecting the Celtics and the Warriors all that much.

[Assembly Hall]

I just saw something shocking. Buddy Hield is 50th in NBA history in 3-pointers made. I can't even process that.

Pacers need to trade him while his stock his high. lol

[M2]

One game in, and it doesn't appear that any off-season drama is negatively affecting the Celtics and the Warriors all that much.

My guess is the Warriors don't have any internal strife. Poole signed a big, fat extension and whatever needed to be settled after the One Punch Man incident seems to be settled. In Boston's case, being good can paper over a lot of cracks, but we won't really know how they'll handle a challenging stretch of the season or overcome adversity until those challenges/adversity arrive. Udoka found the right buttons for that team last year and we don't know if they'll be self-pushing. I'll be curious to see how well they close out tight games, which was the problem that dogged them for a year and a half before they caught fire in January.

[M2]

Pacers need to trade him while his stock his high. lol

We all make jokes at Buddy's expense (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdximU6Ao00), but it is a little weird he hasn't landed on a wannabe contender in need of a shooter. He'd be a hell of a 6th man on the right team. Seems like a nice fit for Dallas or Denver. He doesn't make other players better, but better players might make Buddy better. At his current rate, Buddy's going to be inside the top 20 all-time for 3-pointers in 2-3 years. Somebody probably could use that.

Also mind-boggling, Wes Matthews is 23rd on the 3-pointers list. :explode:

[Assembly Hall]

We all make jokes at Buddy's expense (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdximU6Ao00), but it is a little weird he hasn't landed on a wannabe contender in need of a shooter. He'd be a hell of a 6th man on the right team. Seems like a nice fit for Dallas or Denver. He doesn't make other players better, but better players might make Buddy better. At his current rate, Buddy's going to be inside the top 20 all-time for 3-pointers in 2-3 years. Somebody probably could use that.

Also mind-boggling, Wes Matthews is 23rd on the 3-pointers list. :explode:

The Pacer "scuttlebutt" is Hield and Turner to the Lakers for Russ.

[Bourgeois Zee]

MVP: Joel Embiid
Whomever comes out of the East with the best record should have the MOP. Giannis, Embiid, Tatum, or KD-- they all have a shot, IMO. Darkhose candidate? Jimmy Butler in Miami.

WCF: Denver
If healthy, this team is a beast. Jokic makes everyone better, Murray is Old School awesome, and Porter could go for 30 any night. They also have some interesting help pieces. I suspect they'll deal for more-- this is my darkhorse team for Hield, fwiw.

ECF: Philadelphia
Most talented team in the NBA, IMO, and it's not particularly close. They have to be the heavy favorites to win it all.

NBA Champ: Philadelphia
Embiid is a top two guy at his position. Harden is a top three guy at his position. Maxey is a top 10 guy at his position-- and maybe an All-Star (if everything breaks right). Harris is a first division starter. Tucker is money when it matters. Solid depth pieces too. There's no excuses not to win here.

6th Man: Tyler Herro
This award is all about opportunity. I expect Jordan Poole to be a starter fairly early this season, taking Klay's spot in the lineup. (Or perhaps Green's.) Too, Golden State has Kuminga and Wiseman, who both (IMO) might well blossom as scorers. That'll take some of those second unit numbers. Clarkson will put up monster numbers, perhaps, but for a 15-win Utah team. Grant Williams might get there. Herro, meanwhile, is going in Miami to do one thing-- score early and often. He's got all sorts of help around him to do all the other stuff. And he's a bucket.

DPOY: Rudy Gobert
I really like Gobert's addition to Minnesota. He'll get all sorts of chances as a defensive anchor, as KAT doesn't defend beyond reaching and Russell is worse than that. That team is set up for success-- and everyone will point to Gobert as the reason.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Pacer "scuttlebutt" is Hield and Turner to the Lakers for Russ.

Feel like the Pacers can do better than that.

[M2]

The Pacer "scuttlebutt" is Hield and Turner to the Lakers for Russ.

I don't get why the Pacers would do that outside of trying to be as horrible as possible in the hopes they land the top pick (not great odds even if you've got the worst record). It sounds like something the Lakers want the Pacers to do. Got to think someone at the deadline is going to want a starting big and be willing to trade a young player (ideally a forward) the Pacers like in addition to a draft pick in exchange for Turner. And Buddy's shooting is worth more than a bloated contract and draft picks that are 5+ years away.

[Revering4Blue]

The Pacer "scuttlebutt" is Hield and Turner to the Lakers for Russ.

It was Hield and Turner for Russ and two 1st round picks. Still not good enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Assembly Hall]

It was Hield and Turner for Russ and two 1st round picks. Still not good enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is that all the 1st round picks the Lakers can trade?

[Revering4Blue]

Is that all the 1st round picks the Lakers can trade?

Not sure. The picks were/are at least a few years down the line.

In any event, this season’s focus is on developing youngsters Ben, Jackson, Duarte et all around Haliburton. Their last contending core had far less talent when George and Hibbert were still very young.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[M2]

It was Hield and Turner for Russ and two 1st round picks. Still not good enough.

If the 1sts were more immediate, I'd get it, but 2027 and 2029 are a ways off. The Lakers will have a whole new cadre of stars under contract by then (so maybe not great picks) and the Pacers can probably get 2023 and 2024 picks for Hield/Turner.

[Kingspoint]

Shaedon Sharpe, the 4th youngest player in the NBA, will be an interesting watch all season.

[Kingspoint]

Why is Pops sticking around?

To try to win the lottery.

[Kingspoint]

Pelicans' Starters dominating Nets' Starters in Breuckelen.

[M2]

The city of New York may want to fast forward through this NBA season.

[Betterread]

The city of New York may want to fast forward through this NBA season.
Yes, Kylie had a bad game. Yes, we know you hate him in Boston.

[M2]

Rando thoughts/questions on tonight's games:

Monte Morris led the Wizards in +/- (a road win over the Pacers). Only went 7-6-6 in 21 minutes--really should play more--but he's big part of why I expect DC to be credible this season.

Is Bennedict Mathurin already the 2nd-best player on the Pacers?

How much is that Bojan in the window? Bodganovic scored 24 in his 1st game with the Pistons.

Even though the Magic lost, Paolo Banchero scored 27 and Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner both scored 20+. Bad team, but good vibes.

Trae Young had 13 assists. Dejounte Murray had 11. I think they can share the ball.

What would the Rockets be like if they had a PG? Kevin Porter isn't one.

Ben Simmons went 4-5-5, -26. Kyrie Irving was 6-19. The Nets are built on quicksand.

Zion scored 25 in his 1st game in a long time. The Pelicans may cause other teams to do a lot of drinking.

No Zach LaVine, no Lonzo Ball, and the Bulls beat the Heat on the road. They have a team behind DeRo (37 pts).

Butler, Adebayo, Lowry and Herro all played 34+ minutes for the Heat and all had double-digit negatives for the game. I think their window closed last year.

Darius Garland got the inside of his eyelid scratched. Ouch. Only played 13 minutes, so I'd give the Cavs a mulligan on tonight's loss.

All five of the Raptor's starters scored 15+. That might be a regular thing. They form a nice fist.

The Hornets won their open (in a walk against a lousy Spurs team). Am I wrong to think LaMelo being injured actually worked in their favor?

The Spurs are handing out trials this season. I continue to think Isaiah Roby will be one of the gems they unearth.

Credit to the Knicks for getting back into the game tonight. Cam Reddish had his one good game for the year.

Ja Morant is probably more fun than he is good, but holy hell is he fun. I love guys who jump and then figure out how they're going to score.

What no one realized is the Timberwolves got Rudy Gobert for his offense (team-leading 23 tonight).

Is SGA (32 in a hopeless cause tonight) in the shop window? It's practically the only interesting thing about the Thunder.

Utah waxed Denver. I suspect just about no one saw that coming. Danny Ainge is going to be pissed. How does this get him Victor Wembanyama?

Would Jamal Murray (12-2-1, 5-13 from the floor, -19) like to explain himself?

[M2]

Yes, Kylie had a bad game. Yes, we know you hate him in Boston.

I know I've mentioned this multiple times before, but I'll say it again: I am not a Celtics fan. I used to despise them. Now I watch them a bit because the broadcasts are local and the team is watchable, but I've got no particular rooting interest in them.

I don't like Kyrie because he's just about the most overrated player ever. The people who really should hate him are Nets fans. He's been a disaster there. And out of the gate that team looks like it might be KD and a pack of misfits. They could be really bad this season.

[Boston Red]

Just looked at the Utah box score. Had no idea most of those guys were on the roster. Assume today is the high point of the season for the Jazz. Looking forward to...2026?

[Kingspoint]

Dennis Smith, Jr. +21 off the bench.

Quick. Guess who he plays for?

I already forgot.

[Assembly Hall]

I see a ball boy kept Myles Turner from playing last night. WTF?

[Rojo Rijo]

Banchero with the first 25/5/5 debut since Lebron. Only two players to ever have a 25/5/5 in their first NBA game - Lebron and Grant Hill.

27 points most by a rookie in his first game since Allen Iverson.

[M2]

Didn't get to mention the late games from last night.

Am I mistaken or was it Jerami Grant and Josh Hart who closed out the Kings in Portland's win last night?

While the Kings are a hot pick to be a sleeper this season, first they have to learn how to stop being the Kings.

Speaking of closing a team out, the Suns apparently have still got it. Though Booker and Bridges can't each play 41 minutes every night.

Call me crazy, but if I was running the Mavs I'd play Christian Wood (25 points in 24 minutes) more.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Just looked at the Utah box score. Had no idea most of those guys were on the roster. Assume today is the high point of the season for the Jazz. Looking forward to...2026?

So the deposit I put down on playoff tickets and the Walker Kessler jersey I bought may be premature?

[Boston Red]

So the deposit I put down on playoff tickets and the Walker Kessler jersey I bought may be premature?

I might keep the Kessler jersey. How many times do you think Clarkson will be 4th on the team in shots attempted?

[BuckeyeRed27]

I might keep the Kessler jersey. How many times do you think Clarkson will be 4th on the team in shots attempted?

Sadly I didn’t get to watch last night, but yeah I can’t imagine often. It’s such a weird collection of players, but maybe they figure out a whole better than the parts thing?

[M2]

I'm not saying Utah has a good basketball team, but it's not bereft of talent. If their coach is good, they could win 30-something games.

[SteelSD]

I'm not saying Utah has a good basketball team, but it's not bereft of talent. If their coach is good, they could win 30-something games.

Or...

2013-14 Sixers: Process Year One...1st 3 Games

18862

They won 13 games the rest of the year.

[15fan]

It was 1 game, and against the lowly Rockets to boot but Trae Young 23/13 and Dejounte Murray 20/11 despite a combined 17-41 from the field (2-14 from deep).

Murray’s 5 steals definitely bring a different dimension to the defensive end. And I love the idea of Okongwu coming off the bench to pair with either Young or Murray against the opposing 2nd team. That’s a chance for Hawks to make some hay while other team’s starters are on the bench.

[M2]

It was 1 game, and against the lowly Rockets to boot but Trae Young 23/13 and Dejounte Murray 20/11 despite a combined 17-41 from the field (2-14 from deep).

Murray’s 5 steals definitely bring a different dimension to the defensive end. And I love the idea of Okongwu coming off the bench to pair with either Young or Murray against the opposing 2nd team. That’s a chance for Hawks to make some hay while other team’s starters are on the bench.

I get that Okongwu can help gobble up 2nd units, but he's their best center. He should be closing games too.

[15fan]

Agreed 100% on Okongwu on the floor during crunch time.

[M2]

Or...

2013-14 Sixers: Process Year One...1st 3 Games

18862

They won 13 games the rest of the year.

Oh, Utah has a deep basement. Yet they don't have James Anderson, Henry Sims, Tony Wroten and Hollis Thompson equivalents chewing up good minutes. The league's deeper now, so it's easier to lose. So better teams than past dogs will be taking it on the chin. Utah's pitfalls would seem to be the pieces don't fit or the coach gets deliberately experimental at the end of close games. They'll probably sell a bunch of guys at the deadline too. Then the roster will look dire.

[Kingspoint]

Am I mistaken or was it Jerami Grant and Josh Hart who closed out the Kings in Portland's win last night?



Not just closed it out, but Nurkic was doing his flippant lobs to the basket (calling them shot attempts, but basically they were turnovers). Chauncey had seen enough and took Nurk out less 4-1/2 minutes into the 3rd Quarter and inserted Eubanks. With about 1:45 left in the 3rd, he went with no Center (Eubanks out and moving Hart to the frontcourt) and a front court of Winslow/Little/Hart with Sharpe/Simons (in for Grant/Lillard/Eubanks) at Guard. Hart and Sharpe played a lot of 2-Guard last night...about 26 minutes worth while Dame and Simons alternated time on the Court. Then all of sudden I saw a method to Chauncey's madness. He started the 4th with Winslow/Nurk/Little (and Sharpe/Simons), the same frontcourt that demonstrated Chauncey's Defensive system for the first time last season back in January (over a 2-week stretch before injuries shut that down) that was a tremendous success where they won 4 of 5 on the road and shut their opponents down Defensively. It succeeded well again last night (Sacramento exploited Portland's bigs on the pick-and-roll, while Portland wasn't able to take advantage on their Offensive end with their size, so he had no choice but to go small and make everyone switchable, as Winslow is strong enough to handle Sabonis, as are Little and Grant, while all three having the quickness to handle the Guards on pick-and-roll, or Heuter's outside shot) and he went with it for the first half of the 4th substituting Lillard/Hart at about the 8:00 minute mark for Sharpe/Simons. Sharpe hit 3 of 3 "3"'s last night. He then put Grant in for Nurkic at the 6:00 mark and closed that out. Fox didn't score after the 4:51 mark and Portland's Defense with Winslow/Grant/Hart/Simons/Lillard was stellar giving up only 4 points over the last 4:50 of the game, outscoring them 18-4.

One game at a time. Opening Night vs the Suns on Friday. Only 4-pt underdogs against PHO. Thought it would be 5.0-5.5. I think POR lost their home opener last season, ending a 17-game Home Opener winning streak.

Have to hope that Nurk doesn't sulk after his benching. He needs to understand that Chauncey is trying to win games, and that horrible habit Nurk has had of just blatantly flipping the ball up to the rim when he doesn't have a clear idea for a shot when he's posting up (49-percentile on post-ups point-per-opportunity, which is just horrible for someone of his size and skillset...it's just being lazy and undisciplined)...he needs to understand that he's coming out if he's doing that crap. He's too good of a passer to not think ahead and pass it out if he doesn't have a quality shot attempt. He could get away with this in Europe where he could get the Offensive Rebound, but not in the NBA.


Sacramento played great. They didn't lose it. Portland took it and dominated the last five minutes of the game. Chauncey coached brilliantly. Taking a guy out whom they just gave a $17M per year contract to just four minutes into the 2nd Half takes guts. Chauncey is really looking for combinations that work and the Winslow/Nurk/Little combination does work, especially for the 2nd unit, and it's also a way to not have Jusuf Nurkic get in as much foul trouble going up against a team's 2nd Unit.

Everyone played well for Portland, except for Nurkic. Winslow was great, Grant was great, Dame was good (didn't have his shot falling), Hart was great, Sharpe was great (for a rookie and good for a Veteran), Eubanks was as good as you could expect from him, but still far from being a quality backup Center, Simons was good, not great, but very good in the 2nd Half on both ends of the floor.

The NBA has been put on notice as Fox drilled 3-pointers all night long, while displaying his normal speed to the basket. Huerter is one of the best pure shooters in the NBA and demonstrated it in volume last night (and all pre-season, too). Sacramento will be in the thick of the playoff race all season long. Portland had to have good to great contributions from everyone in order to win.

When Gary Payton gets added to the mix, he'll give Chauncey one more switchable Defender to throw into combinations of Grant/Little/Hart/Winslow (his abdominal rehab will be evaluated in a week, and I assume he'll be practicing within a week after that...same one done for Lillard and Little).

POR was 2-pt underdogs. I took the better odds and gave Sacramento 2 points. I did have to bet a small amount on the season over/under of 39-1/2, too.

[Kingspoint]

Sadly I didn’t get to watch last night, but yeah I can’t imagine often. It’s such a weird collection of players, but maybe they figure out a whole better than the parts thing?

Conley minus Mitchell has more going for it than we give it credit.

Olynyk always makes the right play. He'll exploit situations, while frustrating an opponent.

Beasley is happier than heck where he's at with real minutes and a much more appreciated role on the team.

The 1st Rd pick they demanded to get back in the trade for Mitchell was super last night.

And, of course, Vanderbilt was steadily good at everything.

Their 2nd Unit of Gay/Kessler/Beasley/Sexton dominated the game.

[M2]

Ivica Zubac is practically out-rebounding the Lakers all by himself.

Also, John Wall looks great.

P.S. - Credit to the Lakers for getting back into the game with AD on the bench. Apparently LeBron + defenders still works.

[Assembly Hall]

Ivica Zubac is practically out-rebounding the Lakers all by himself.

Also, John Wall looks great.

P.S. - Credit to the Lakers for getting back into the game with AD on the bench. Apparently LeBron + defenders still works.

Speaking of the Lakers:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-unlikely-to-make-russell-westbrook-trade-until-after-thanksgiving-per-report/

[Bourgeois Zee]

Speaking of the Lakers:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lakers-unlikely-to-make-russell-westbrook-trade-until-after-thanksgiving-per-report/

That's the right move for a team that recognizes it's not going anywhere.

They're clearly a step below teams like the Clippers and Warriors, and it looks like the guys on the periphery aren't going to be the answers Laker fans thought they might. It also looks like Ham doesn't have a magic wand to "fix" Westbrook. (Laker fans should probably be sending their condolences to Frank Vogel now to beat the Christmas rush.)

[Bourgeois Zee]

Some observations:

Early returns on Christian Wood are that he's just what Dallas needed. 25 pts. More importantly, 4-7 from deep. Like him as a pairing with Luka, but question whether the supporting cast can do much else. I suspect I'll have that question all season long.

It'll be interesting to see what Kevin Huerter does in Sacramento. He's going to be relatively open and given free reign to shoot. He's also sharing the floor with at least three willing passers. I like Sacramento as a 2022 version of the Timberwolves-- fun at a frenetic pace but likely missing too much to be taken all that seriously. That said, if De'Aaron Fox can shoot like he did in the first game, they'll actually make the playoffs.

Of the first 30 guys in points, only two would be considered surprises. Everyone else is already a star or is at least his team's first option.

Speaking of first options, some interesting choices: Scary Terry Rozier is Charlotte's go-to scorer right now. I assume that changes when Ball gets healthy, but Rozier might have to score 20+ for the Hornets to have a shot. Banchero is Orlando's first (and often last) go-to guy. That didn't take long, did it? Keldon Johnson might end up with 20+ points per game in San Antonio, but only if he actually wants them. Dude is passive and doesn't, IMO, realize he needs to hunt shots yet. Yet. Still like him as a sneaky good target for a team needing some outside shooting and rebounding.

Were I an NBA coach, I'd be mighty tempted to give Cam Reddish a whole bunch of playing time at the expense of more expensive guys. He's a wing, and when he's on, dangerous. He plays defense too. A time-share between he, Fournier, and RJ Barrett makes sense to me. But the Knicks are a whole bunch of screwed up, so it won't even register for Thibs. I'll never understanding trading for a player only to let him sit the bench. Someone want to explain it?

[Revering4Blue]

I see a ball boy kept Myles Turner from playing last night. WTF?

And he’s sidelined for a week and the interior defense is suffering without him. As I type this, they’re down 15 at the half at home to the Spurs. The. Spurs.

To that end, I can’t figure out why Jackson hasn’t been allotted roughly the same amount of minutes as Turner would have been.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kingspoint]

Maybe Chauncey does have their ears.

In the first half of Sacramento's game, Eubanks was setting, well, you can't say, setting, as he'd run out of his picks without setting them, something he did regularly last season. In the 2nd Half, I assume Lillard spoke to him about it, though, not Chauncey, Eubanks set the pick, and made sure it stayed picked before rolling to the basket. He did it correctly again tonight against Phoenix, and as a result, he got a lot of time again (plus PHO is big with Ayton).

But, here's the part about Chauncey...

POR had 14 turnovers in the 1st Half which led to 23 points. In the 2nd Half and Overtime, POR had only 7 turnovers which led to Zero points.....ZERO points. That turnaround is unbelievable. POR again closed the game in a dominant fashion, and again it wasn't Dame (as PHO wouldn't let him beat them, so they blitzed him every time), outscoring PHO 7-0 over the last 99 seconds of OT.

One game at a time. On to the Lakers in LA Sunday afternoon.

[Kingspoint]

This is the UTA team I saw in pre-season. They have a blend of Veterans that all have a chip on their shoulder. They and their Coach are dogging it. Wait until Sexton gets going.

[M2]

I don't think there's any great reason for concern over the Sixers dropping their first two games of the season against the Celtics and Bucks. However, if they drop game #3 at home against the Spurs I am pivoting hard into a flaming hot take that maybe Doc Rivers needs to be fired.

[SteelSD]

I don't think there's any great reason for concern over the Sixers dropping their first two games of the season against the Celtics and Bucks. However, if they drop game #3 at home against the Spurs I am pivoting hard into a flaming hot take that maybe Doc Rivers needs to be fired.

I have rarely seen a collection of listless efforts like the first three games of the season. The team literally looks like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing on either side of the court. Even with Maxey, the team is slow as hell in transition and on closeouts. They have one offensive play. One. Rivers is grinding his starters to dust- tonight it was Harden and Maxey putting up 40 minutes each, with Embiid and Harris at 36 each, with a "playoff" rotation off the bench. And if he's going to max out Thybulle at 3 minutes, then just trade the guy for goodness sake.

It's actually sort of comical to watch Rivers right now. He's been given a bunch of tools, but he has no earthly idea how to use them.

Thank god the Penguins were playing tonight too.

[M2]

I have rarely seen a collection of listless efforts like the first three games of the season. The team literally looks like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing on either side of the court. Even with Maxey, the team is slow as hell in transition and on closeouts. They have one offensive play. One. Rivers is grinding his starters to dust- tonight it was Harden and Maxey putting up 40 minutes each, with Embiid and Harris at 36 each, with a "playoff" rotation off the bench. And if he's going to max out Thybulle at 3 minutes, then just trade the guy for goodness sake.

It's actually sort of comical to watch Rivers right now. He's been given a bunch of tools, but he has no earthly idea how to use them.

Thank god the Penguins were playing tonight too.

Philly needs to fire up the D'Antoni signal.

[Kingspoint]

Rivers just has to find a combination that works when Embiid comes off the floor. It's the same problem Utah always had with Gobert.

Embiid was +6 in 36 minutes. Well, those 12 minutes he was off the floor they were what, -15? 9 minutes was with Harrel coming in. That didn't work (-12). 3 minutes was small-ball with Thybulle coming in. That didn't work (-3).

Utah could never find the answer and ultimately had to ship him away and let him be someone else's problem. PHI doesn't have the same issue where a particular style has to change when Gobert is on and off the floor. It might have to be somewhat different as nobody can replicate Embiid, but the team style doesn't have to be drastically different. I would add, however, that Harden without Embiid is a drastically different style, but that wasn't the issue last night. Curry was the key. He's a huge loss for them. Curry does things on both ends of the floor, that if he was on the floor with Embiid off, he could facilitate, score, make defensive plays that bother the other team's flow, and buy the time needed for Embiid to rest, while holding onto the lead that Embiid gave the team, and at worst, not having Embiid coming back into the game where he's behind on his 2nd stint of a half wearing himself out in an uphill battle and being dog-tired by the last 5 minutes of the game when they need his energy the most. Curry always makes the right play. He doesn't do bone-headed stuff that loses games.

[KoryMac5]

Doncic is going to make Christian Wood a ton of money this offseason...he looks like a different player with Dallas.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Doncic is going to make Christian Wood a ton of money this offseason...he looks like a different player with Dallas.

Wood's in an enviable situation, IMO. Were I a relatively nondescript NBA lifer, I'd absolutely look at teams with transcendent PGs who can feed me the ball in a position where I can make hay, while also having the gravitas to keep defenses from keying on me at all.

Who, in the NBA, has that type of (literal) pull?

LeBron
Doncic
Chris Paul (maybe?)
Ja Morant
Harden
Curry

Is that it? Is it even that many?

[SteelSD]

Rivers just has to find a combination that works when Embiid comes off the floor. It's the same problem Utah always had with Gobert.

Embiid was +6 in 36 minutes. Well, those 12 minutes he was off the floor they were what, -15? 9 minutes was with Harrel coming in. That didn't work (-12). 3 minutes was small-ball with Thybulle coming in. That didn't work (-3).

Utah could never find the answer and ultimately had to ship him away and let him be someone else's problem. PHI doesn't have the same issue where a particular style has to change when Gobert is on and off the floor. It might have to be somewhat different as nobody can replicate Embiid, but the team style doesn't have to be drastically different. I would add, however, that Harden without Embiid is a drastically different style, but that wasn't the issue last night. Curry was the key. He's a huge loss for them. Curry does things on both ends of the floor, that if he was on the floor with Embiid off, he could facilitate, score, make defensive plays that bother the other team's flow, and buy the time needed for Embiid to rest, while holding onto the lead that Embiid gave the team, and at worst, not having Embiid coming back into the game where he's behind on his 2nd stint of a half wearing himself out in an uphill battle and being dog-tired by the last 5 minutes of the game when they need his energy the most. Curry always makes the right play. He doesn't do bone-headed stuff that loses games.

How exactly how does Seth Curry fit with the current Sixers? First, they wouldn't have Harden. But let's ignore that and say that Curry is still on the squad. Well, there's no way Curry would or should be playing starters minutes with Maxey on board and Harden running the point. And there's the fact that Curry is not a good defensive player, nor is he a capable point guard. He's a bench shooter, that's it. While that's nice for any team to have, it really wouldn't matter that much because right now Rivers isn't giving his bench players any minutes, much less shots.

Rivers entire plan right now is to load up on defensive options and riding the starters hard, hoping that none of them have an off night. He will not deviate from that plan, and hasn't- 0 minutes for the season for Shake Milton and Furkan Korkmaz, combined. And frankly, Rivers has no more excuses for the "ill-fitting-tools" scenario. He has the pieces. But he clearly cannot make them fit.

[M2]

Doncic is going to make Christian Wood a ton of money this offseason...he looks like a different player with Dallas.

Wood's a bucket. Wait until he starts getting another 10 minutes a game.

[M2]

And frankly, Rivers has no more excuses for the "ill-fitting-tools" scenario. He has the pieces. But he clearly cannot make them fit.

That's the nut of it. Trez is one of the best roll men in the NBA and Doc can't figure out how to run plays for him. The guy is averaging 1 shot per game. P.J. Tucker is standing open in the corner and no one is getting him the ball. Maxey isn't distributing. And it's not like the team is playing quality defense either. A team with this much talent shouldn't be this lost at the start of the season.