2022-23 Euro Soccer Thread

[M2]

Let's start this one with some Premier League drama. ManU looked like the worst team in creation for its first two games until it beat Liverpool yesterday, now Liverpool is sitting on two points from three games and the Scousers are feeling some early panic. Meanwhile, Arsenal is the only unbeaten and untied team in the league. It turns out Gabriel Jesus might actually be able to score goals. And Everton, Wolves, Leicester and West Ham are off to dire starts. Keep an eye on Everton, which has never been relegated. That team could be an Irwin Allen movie.

[M2]

Champions League draw today - https://www.goal.com/en-us/lists/champions-league-2022-23-group-stage-draw/bltbf49c61d39531b06#cs4bdab53a481b7a63.

Big news is Lewa is playing against Bayern and Haaland is playing against BVB. Are we sure these are random draws? Those are also the groups of death with Bayern, Barca and Inter in one and Dortmund, Man City and Sevilla in the other. Groups like that get managers fired. There's also a few really deep groups where any of four teams could make it through. Porto, Atletico, Leverkusen and Club Brugge strikes me as the wildest of the bunch.

[M2]

Liverpool got off the mat in style today with a 9-0 thrashing of Bournemouth.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Last time Arsenal started 4-0 they didn’t lose a game all season….let’s go!

[MWM]

Was at the PSG v Monacao game last night in Paris. Messi still flashes his skills plenty, but it was hard to watch him when he needed a little speed. Not quite Griffey in his last couple of years in Cincinnati, but definitely not the same guy.

[M2]

Was at the PSG v Monacao game last night in Paris. Messi still flashes his skills plenty, but it was hard to watch him when he needed a little speed. Not quite Griffey in his last couple of years in Cincinnati, but definitely not the same guy.

Awesome that you're there. How's the stadium? Anyone on Monaco impress you?

But the big question is do you like Paris better now that you're a full-fledged adult?

[MWM]

Awesome that you're there. How's the stadium? Anyone on Monaco impress you?

But the big question is do you like Paris better now that you're a full-fledged adult?

Ha! Paris is definitely much much better as a “full-fledged adult” (I’m going to use that one and I doubt most get it).2nd time here on the way to drop off my son in London for a semester…who is also a full fledged adult here.

The stadium atmosphere was pretty amazing…,even if the seats are barely big enough for a 12 year old. It’s so different than the experience at our stadiums.

I didn’t really know any of the Monaco players, but the guy that stood out the most of anyone on either side, other than Mbappe, was #12 for Monaco. He had bleached hair and I just looked him up and it’s a guy named Caio Henrique. He put in a clinic in defending 1 v 1. He anticipated what the attacker was going to do every time he was near the ball and frustrated the hell out of the the PSG offense. He was basically like a shut down corner in the nfl, near perfect instincts.

They had another defender, #5, who also stuck out from everyone else. Just looked him up and it’s Benoit Badiashile. He was another one who just always was in the right spot and always came up with the ball. The Monaco back line was the most impressive thing to watch in this particular game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Chelsea loses again. Pulisic on the bench again. Havertz and Mount again did absolutely nothing. Tuchel has to be one of the worst managers in the league.

Pulisic has to get out of there.

[M2]

Chelsea loses again. Pulisic on the bench again. Havertz and Mount again did absolutely nothing. Tuchel has to be one of the worst managers in the league.

Pulisic has to get out of there.

Would love to see him land at a club like Sevilla or Valencia. He also might be spectacular at Palace.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Would love to see him land at a club like Sevilla or Valencia. He also might be spectacular at Palace.

I don’t really care where it is. He needs to get away from Tuchel who is a disaster and is not far away from being fired and he just needs to play before the World Cup. He can figure out a more permanent solution after December.

[RedTeamGo!]

I would literally take Pulisic going to MLS for this year at this point. He needs out of Chelsea immediately.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I would literally take Pulisic going to MLS for this year at this point. He needs out of Chelsea immediately.

Yep. And Dest needs to stop messing around and take the Villarreal move too.

They are 2 of the 4 most important players for the US and they can’t just not play soccer for 3 months.

[M2]

I don’t really care where it is. He needs to get away from Tuchel who is a disaster and is not far away from being fired and he just needs to play before the World Cup. He can figure out a more permanent solution after December.

It's kind of funny that a year ago Tuchel was considered a certified genius and Chelsea was off to a roaring start in the league. His worm has turned.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Looks like Dest is going to AC Milan. Came out of nowhere but good move.

[Betterread]

Aubameyang is joining Chelsea. That is not good for Pulisic getting more game time minutes at Chelsea. He should follow Salah’s example and try to go to a good Serie A club but not so good he won’t get playing time. Maybe Napoli if they sell Osimhen, or Atalanta, or Roma.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Aubameyang is joining Chelsea. That is not good for Pulisic getting more game time minutes at Chelsea. He should follow Salah’s example and try to go to a good Serie A club but not so good he won’t get playing time. Maybe Napoli if they sell Osimhen, or Atalanta, or Roma.

Is Auba good anymore? Not that it matters to Tuchel.

[M2]

Is Auba good anymore? Not that it matters to Tuchel.

He looked washed at Arsenal and rejuvenated at Barca. So it's anybody's guess.

[Betterread]

He looked washed at Arsenal and rejuvenated at Barca. So it's anybody's guess.

Valid question. We’ll find out soon enough. That club auditions and abandons strikers at an unprecedented rate. They burn through so much money on that position year after year.

[M2]

Valid question. We’ll find out soon enough. That club auditions and abandons strikers at an unprecedented rate. They burn through so much money on that position year after year.

Where have you gone Didier Drogba? Chelsea turns its lonely eyes to you.

[Betterread]

Looks like Dest is going to AC Milan. Came out of nowhere but good move.

You sound pretty sure about the move. Calabria and Hernandez are first team fixtures (and co-captains) at the wing backs so Dest is not going to start at those positions. I have read that Milan want to use him as a straight offensive winger. At wing Milan have Leao, who is a much higher level performer than Dest, and Messias, who is 31, but played surprisingly pretty well last year and seems to be first choice this year.
They paid a lot for Dest, so they clearly want to utilize him, but the match I see is that their super sub Florenzi got hurt, and Dest is his replacement.
I’d like to see Dest work on tracking back and positional defending. His offense is pretty strong, so maybe a switch to winger will help, but I thought he was seen as a wingback for USMNT.

[BuckeyeRed27]

You sound pretty sure about the move. Calabria and Hernandez are first team fixtures (and co-captains) at the wing backs so Dest is not going to start at those positions. I have read that Milan want to use him as a straight offensive winger. At wing Milan have Leao, who is a much higher level performer than Dest, and Messias, who is 31, but played surprisingly pretty well last year and seems to be first choice this year.
They paid a lot for Dest, so they clearly want to utilize him, but the match I see is that their super sub Florenzi got hurt, and Dest is his replacement.
I’d like to see Dest work on tracking back and positional defending. His offense is pretty strong, so maybe a switch to winger will help, but I thought he was seen as a wingback for USMNT.

No matter how much Milan plays him it’ll be more than at Barcelona.

He does play wingback in Berhalters system, but he’s a pretty versatile player.

[M2]

I wouldn't worry too much if Dest if playing more as a pure wing in his league. Italian clubs make sure everyone defends.

[Betterread]

I wouldn't worry too much if Dest if playing more as a pure wing in his league. Italian clubs make sure everyone defends.

Good point. If Dest can pick up defending skills, I picture an American Federico Chiesa. If he doesn’t figure out how to track back and help out defensively, he will be like a million Brazilian wingbacks with speed, dribbling ability and no help on defense.

[M2]

Good point. If Dest can pick up defending skills, I picture an American Federico Chiesa. If he doesn’t figure out how to track back and help out defensively, he will be like a million Brazilian wingbacks with speed, dribbling ability and no help on defense.

BTW, Brazilian wingbacks are my favorite. Arguably they've become Brazil's signature players in recent generations - Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Dani Alves, Marcelo.

[Betterread]

BTW, Brazilian wingbacks are my favorite. Arguably they've become Brazil's signature players in recent generations - Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Dani Alves, Marcelo.

These names are the benchmark (along with Maicon) but I can list seven who have played for Roma in the last 15 yrs and of them only Cafu could defend as well as attack - Bruno Peres, Maicon, Dodo, Emerson, Taddei (most of his career he was a midfielder, but the last two years he played wingback) and last but not least Cicinho.
I’m not an expert on RM’s roster but I bet they have at least that many Brazilians trying their luck, and failing at holding down a starting wingback spot.

[M2]

These names are the benchmark (along with Maicon) but I can list seven who have played for Roma in the last 15 yrs and of them only Cafu could defend as well as attack - Bruno Peres, Maicon, Dodo, Emerson, Taddei (most of his career he was a midfielder, but the last two years he played wingback) and last but not least Cicinho.
I’m not an expert on RM’s roster but I bet they have at least that many Brazilians trying their luck, and failing at holding down a starting wingback spot.

Honestly, it's a pretty short list for Madrid on wingbacks in this century. On the left it's Roberto Carlos->Gabriel Heinze->Marcelo->Ferland Mendy with Fabio Coentrao and Raul Bravo getting some run in there. On the right it's Michel Salgado->Sergio Ramos->Alvaro Arbeloa->Dani Carvajal with Cicinho, Miguel Torres, Danilo and Lucas Vazquez getting some run. Nacho deputized on both flanks at various points. The notorious Cicinho (one pack of smokes before the game, one after, booze to wash it all down) was really the only Brazilian they tried without much luck. Danilo did all right, but Carvajal was much better. They've had some Brazi kids cycle through their B team, but generally speaking those have been champagne positions for Madrid. They might start playing David Alaba on the left more often just because they can.

[Betterread]

If you get a chance to watch Napoli in Serie A play, take it. They have a remarkable new talent - khvicha kvaratskhelia - he is a 21 yr old Georgian player in his first year there and he is the story of Serie A so far with 4 goals in 5 games. Reminds me of Ibra as he is a big guy but with sublime dribbling skills and a very powerful shot.

[M2]

Freiburg right now is sitting at the top of the Bundesliga. I don't expect that to last all season, but that club is an easy one to root for.

In Premier League news, ManU has spoiled Arsenal's perfect start. One ManU note, they seemed to turn things around the minute Tyrell Malacia replaced Luke Shaw.

[Betterread]

In the first round of group matches in the champions league, Dinamo Zagreb beat Chelsea 1:0. The Croatians rode a wave of rabid fans, excellent dribbling and maniacal defending to win. A lot of firepower on Chelsea - Havertz, Aubameyang, Ziyech, Sterling, Pulisic - really never showed any special skill or game deciding plays. Their dribbling did not work very often. Dinamo kept their shape and made the spaces small for Chelsea. British teams are usually so focused on this tournament, so I am surprised at the result. Reece James and Jorginho had the best chances for Chelsea but were denied by the GK.

[M2]

In the first round of group matches in the champions league, Dinamo Zagreb beat Chelsea 1:0. The Croatians rode a wave of rabid fans, excellent dribbling and maniacal defending to win. A lot of firepower on Chelsea - Havertz, Aubameyang, Ziyech, Sterling, Pulisic - really never showed any special skill or game deciding plays. Their dribbling did not work very often. Dinamo kept their shape and made the spaces small for Chelsea. British teams are usually so focused on this tournament, so I am surprised at the result. Reece James and Jorginho had the best chances for Chelsea but were denied by the GK.

Chelsea's kind of a mess so far.

[Betterread]

Dortmund, Real Madrid and ManCity all roll on with 3-0 or 4-1 wins. Reyna (2 assists)and Hazard (1 goal 1 assist) made the most of early first half substitutions to (hopefully) get back on track.

[paintmered]

Chelsea's kind of a mess so far.

And now they've sacked Tuchel.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don’t really care where it is. He needs to get away from Tuchel who is a disaster and is not far away from being fired and he just needs to play before the World Cup. He can figure out a more permanent solution after December.

I did think he was more than 7 days away from being fired.

[Betterread]

And now they've sacked Tuchel.

Right after a massive spending spree in the summer 2022 transfer window. Multiple ESPN articles say there was a rift between Tuchel and new co-owner and chairman Todd Boehly, who assumed those roles with Abramovich and his team withdrawing from running the club due to Ukrainian war sanctions. This rift prevented Pulisic from going out on loan (Boehly’s decision), and resulted in bringing in Aubameyang and loaning out Lukaku (Tuchel’s decision).
There is a lot of talent on Chelsea, but whoever is the new coach has a lot of messes to sort out to get the team back on track.

[M2]

That is a fairly stunning fall from grace for Tuchel. Good to see that even though Roman is gone, Chelsea is still a revolving door for managers.

RB Leipzig also sacked its manager. Wouldn't shock me if that's where Tuchel lands.

[BuckeyeRed27]

That is a fairly stunning fall from grace for Tuchel. Good to see that even though Roman is gone, Chelsea is still a revolving door for managers.

RB Leipzig also sacked its manager. Wouldn't shock me if that's where Tuchel lands.

Tuchel fell into the coaching trap of trying to convince his players he was right instead of doing what he needed to win. Nothing loses the locker room faster.

[M2]

Tuchel fell into the coaching trap of trying to convince his players he was right instead of doing what he needed to win. Nothing loses the locker room faster.

Yep. And I think teams burn out quickly when the main directive is to run themselves into the dirt. Legs and brains eventually give out.

[M2]

If you haven't seen the Luka Modric goal from yesterday, here it be - https://twitter.com/brfootball/status/1567247994445041673.

What he does with the outside of his boot is unreal.

[Betterread]

Tuchel fell into the coaching trap of trying to convince his players he was right instead of doing what he needed to win. Nothing loses the locker room faster.

I don’t think Tuchel is the problem in this scenario. This is about the time period (2 yrs) that his coaching gigs last. He is committed to playing a high pace, high activity style of soccer and he has no patience for players unwilling to work hard. I like that attitude. I recall that one of Barca’s periods of ultimate success was in 2014-2017 under Luis Enrique. He motivated the ultimate set of primadonnas Messi Suarez and Neymar to press high up the field to devastating success. They were willing to work hard for him.

I also like that he got into it with Conte who is an absolute ******bag as a person, even though he is a also a pretty good coach.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don’t think Tuchel is the problem in this scenario. This is about the time period (2 yrs) that his coaching gigs last. He is committed to playing a high pace, high activity style of soccer and he has no patience for players unwilling to work hard. I like that attitude. I recall that one of Barca’s periods of ultimate success was in 2014-2017 under Luis Enrique. He motivated the ultimate set of primadonnas Messi Suarez and Neymar to press high up the field to devastating success. They were willing to work hard for him.

I also like that he got into it with Conte who is an absolute ******bag as a person, even though he is a also a pretty good coach.

If you can only keep a job managing elite professionals in any field for only 2 years, the problem is you not them.

[M2]

I don’t think Tuchel is the problem in this scenario. This is about the time period (2 yrs) that his coaching gigs last. He is committed to playing a high pace, high activity style of soccer and he has no patience for players unwilling to work hard. I like that attitude. I recall that one of Barca’s periods of ultimate success was in 2014-2017 under Luis Enrique. He motivated the ultimate set of primadonnas Messi Suarez and Neymar to press high up the field to devastating success. They were willing to work hard for him.

I also like that he got into it with Conte who is an absolute ******bag as a person, even though he is a also a pretty good coach.

It's a nice trick, but I think Jose Mourinho has demonstrated it has diminishing returns. Teams can't exist for years on end with a siege mentality and eventually new teams see you coming (oh no, this guy). There's got to be joy and growth. Chelsea obviously will take a Champions League title, but I question whether he can drag that out of all that many teams.

On a much smaller scale, I watched former USMNT keeper Brad Friedel try his hand at managing that style in MLS and it was a disaster. He got immediately tuned out. Fans couldn't even stand him. Whole team turned around when Bruce Arena took over. Suddenly they started playing the game instead of pressing until they collapsed.

[Betterread]

If you can only keep a job managing elite professionals in any field for only 2 years, the problem is you not them.

At big clubs, frequent changes of managers is typical and predictable. Ancelotti is an all time great coach and is currently at Real Madrid, and even he has been sacked a few times within a year or two.
Going to back to 2000, looking at teams from different countries and similar payrolls, here are s few examples of the tenures of managers
1. Real Madrid - del Bosque lasted the longest 3 &1/2 yrs, Mourinho lasted 3, everyone else ( Ancelotti, Zidane, Luxembourgo, etc.) lasted 2 yrs or less.
2. Bayern Munich - pep lasted 3 yrs and Omar Hitzfeld lasted 6 yrs in his first run. Everyone else lasted 2 yrs or less (Sagnol, Ancelotti, Van Gaal, Klinsmann, etc)
3. Juventus - Conte lasted 3 yrs, Allegri lasted 5 yrs in his first run, everyone else (ancelotti, Capello, Deschamps)lasted less than 2 yrs.
4. Manchester United - Ferguson was there for 27 yrs until 2013, but since no-one has lasted 3 yrs.
5. Liverpool is the one outlier with Houllier lasting 6 yrs, followed by Benitez for 6 yrs and currently Klopp is nearly at seven years.

[dabvu2498]

If you get a chance to watch Napoli in Serie A play, take it. They have a remarkable new talent - khvicha kvaratskhelia - he is a 21 yr old Georgian player in his first year there and he is the story of Serie A so far with 4 goals in 5 games. Reminds me of Ibra as he is a big guy but with sublime dribbling skills and a very powerful shot.

Call back for this take… Napoli destroying Liverpool. Yeah, Liverpool has injury problems, but they also seem to have some energy issues. Not much fire in the belly this far into the season.

[M2]

1. Real Madrid - del Bosque lasted the longest 3 &1/2 yrs, Mourinho lasted 3, everyone else ( Ancelotti, Zidane, Luxembourgo, etc.) lasted 2 yrs or less.

Zidane lasted more than 2 years twice. He basically had a five year run in which he took a short break in the middle. The Carlo-Zidane-Zidane-Carlo run has been an uncommon period of stability for Madrid. I would argue it's served them extremely well and allowed the club to build a culture that delivered a slew of recent trophies. Arguably it started with Mourinho, who (as you noted) lasted three years), though I don't think he left much behind other than a locker room of players glad to see him gone. Yet it was the beginning of relative managerial stability.

Three years in that job can be a long time, so I doubt we'll see anything that matches Liverpool's approach (or Atleti, where El Cholo is basically manager for life), but I feel like Madrid (or at least Florentino Perez) might have actually learned something about less volatility makes for a more focused organization.

[Betterread]

Zidane lasted more than 2 years twice. He basically had a five year run in which he took a short break in the middle. The Carlo-Zidane-Zidane-Carlo run has been an uncommon period of stability for Madrid. I would argue it's served them extremely well and allowed the club to build a culture that delivered a slew of recent trophies. Arguably it started with Mourinho, who (as you noted) lasted three years), though I don't think he left much behind other than a locker room of players glad to see him gone. Yet it was the beginning of relative managerial stability.

Three years in that job can be a long time, so I doubt we'll see anything that matches Liverpool's approach (or Atleti, where El Cholo is basically manager for life), but I feel like Madrid (or at least Florentino Perez) might have actually learned something about less volatility makes for a more focused organization.

Since I summarized and rounded off some numbers, here are clarifications for RM. There were 10 months and two managers in between the two Zidane tenures which were 28 months and 26 months. And Real Madrid have had 17 managers since del Bosque left in 2003.
And just to clarify that my points about short term managers is not meant to imply that I am a big Tuchel fan, nor a Chelsea fan in any way, shape, or form. He’s not one my favorite managers, but he earned my respect with his Chelsea champions league trophy.

[M2]

Horror show for Liverpool with a 4-1 loss. Big pressure next week against Ajax.

Richarlison became a Tottenham legend with two goals today against Marseille. Atleti and Porto scored 3 extra time goals between them in a 2-1 Atleti win (after an 82nd minute red card for a Porto player). Club Brugge beat Leverkusen 1-0 and Sporting beat Frankfurt 3-0. Awful round for non-Bayern German clubs.

[M2]

Since I summarized and rounded off some numbers, here are clarifications for RM. There were 10 months and two managers in between the two Zidane tenures which were 28 months and 26 months. And Real Madrid have had 17 managers since del Bosque left in 2003.
And just to clarify that my points about short term managers is not meant to imply that I am a big Tuchel fan, nor a Chelsea fan in any way, shape, or form. He’s not one my favorite managers, but he earned my respect with his Chelsea champions league trophy.

My thing with Tuchel is I'd like to see him do what Mourinho never has, adapt. He seems like he could. Felt like he did a bit at PSG, which couldn't really press the way he wanted.

Madrid was a killing field between del Bosque and Mourinho. It was like watching a club eat itself ouroboros style.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Horror show for Liverpool with a 4-1 loss. Big pressure next week against Ajax.

Richarlison became a Tottenham legend with two goals today against Marseille. Atleti and Porto scored 3 extra time goals between them in a 2-1 Atleti win (after an 82nd minute red card for a Porto player). Club Brugge beat Leverkusen 1-0 and Sporting beat Frankfurt 3-0. Awful round for non-Bayern German clubs.

The offside system that disallowed the leverkusen goal and apparently is going to be used in the World Cup is very very bad. He was maybe off by the edge of his boot.

[M2]

The offside system that disallowed the leverkusen goal and apparently is going to be used in the World Cup is very very bad. He was maybe off by the edge of his boot.

Haven't seen it yet, but I want the Dutch system (wide bars, you're onside if they're touching) to be the norm.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Haven't seen it yet, but I want the Dutch system (wide bars, you're onside if they're touching) to be the norm.

https://twitter.com/nicocantor1/status/1567628237873811459?s=21&t=-1cDrjWPwdpNLtVDcva-8g

[M2]

https://twitter.com/nicocantor1/status/1567628237873811459?s=21&t=-1cDrjWPwdpNLtVDcva-8g

Wow. That is terrible.

[Betterread]

Call back for this take… Napoli destroying Liverpool. Yeah, Liverpool has injury problems, but they also seem to have some energy issues. Not much fire in the belly this far into the season.
Hey Luciano!(fall reference) Luciano Spaletti (there’s a coach I like) gegenpressed the original gegenpresser to death. Anyone feeling any Schadenfreude?

[Cliffawed]

torn with potter appointment. wanted him at man utd for years and not sure he has the back up with his director of football at brighton. shame for all those kids at brighton who wont develop the same.

[M2]

2nd week of the Champions League kicked off today, and if you're not a Club Brugge by now, shame on you. They buried Porto 4-0 on the road, and now lead their group (featuring Atleti and Leverkusen). Liverpool saved themselves late from a home draw against Ajax. Bayern played Barca, so Bayern beat Barca (2-0 this time). And Sporting took command of its group by beating Spurs 2-0.

[M2]

Not that the UEFA Nations League a super important competition, but it is a pretty fair barometer for how teams are playing heading into the World Cup. England is going to be relegated down to the B level. The overall team so far might be the Netherlands.

[M2]

Champions League is back and the group phase is going to happen fast and furious over the next few weeks.

Somebody needs to break up Club Brugge, which beat Atletico Madrid 2-0 today. The Belgians are way off the front of the group with victories over Atleti, Leverkusen and Porto (all 6 points back). One more win and they're in.

Napoli is crushing its group. It won 6-1 at Ajax today. Liverpool has moved into a comfortable 2nd.

Inter beat Barca today (with VAR drama). If Barca doesn't get the win back next week (at home), then it's going to need to get a result out of Bayern in order to make the next round.

And the Sporting, Tottenham, Frankfurt, Marseille group is still anything goes.

[Betterread]

Can anyone help me understand what Mbappe is saying? Just a few months after PSG committed their future to him with a £100 million bonus PLUS the highest salary in the world £4 million/month, he wants out of PSG because he doesn’t like the club’s direction AND he wants to play with a “true #9 like Olivier Girond on les Bleus”

What?

My confusion is - isn’t he the center of the club’s direction. And isn’t he a true #9? I thought 9s were the goal scorers. Olivier Giroud is certainly not that - he is like a caddy for the true goal scorer of whatever team he is on.

[M2]

Can anyone help me understand what Mbappe is saying? Just a few months after PSG committed their future to him with a £100 million bonus PLUS the highest salary in the world £4 million/month, he wants out of PSG because he doesn’t like the club’s direction AND he wants to play with a “true #9 like Olivier Girond on les Bleus”

What?

My confusion is - isn’t he the center of the club’s direction. And isn’t he a true #9? I thought 9s were the goal scorers. Olivier Giroud is certainly not that - he is like a caddy for the true goal scorer of whatever team he is on.

I mean, #9s have to do a lot of donkey work too. Messi and Neymar aren't doing that. Mbappe's got to do the hold-up work and chase at the point of their press. He thought he'd either get to play wing or as a modified #10. PSG basically has operated like Max Bialystock in The Producers by promising 100% control of the club to multiple players. No one trusts anyone over there. It's expected that Messi will head back to Barcelona next season.

It's interesting me because Madrid is the club he could have gone to this summer. He'd have formed a frontline with Benzema and Vinicius. Yet Rodrygo is taking another step forward and I don't think Mbappe's worth the record transfer fee it would take to get him. All the reasons why he picked PSG this summer are all the reasons why Madrid probably should steer clear of him. Kind of feel like he'll go to ManU, which has big pockets and even bigger needs.

[M2]

Juve just lost 2-0 to Maccabi Haifa. The Old Lady is tired.

[Betterread]

Taj Buchanan should have earned a penalty v Athletico Madrid, instead Molina got the call and Buchanan got the yellow. Athletic get away with so much dirty play but Club Brugge hold on to the top spot in their group.
and Barca fought back (through Lewandowski) to earn a 3-3 draw vrs Internazionale (they were down 1-2 at 80 minutes).

[Betterread]

It's interesting me because Madrid is the club he could have gone to this summer. He'd have formed a frontline with Benzema and Vinicius. Yet Rodrygo is taking another step forward and I don't think Mbappe's worth the record transfer fee it would take to get him. All the reasons why he picked PSG this summer are all the reasons why Madrid probably should steer clear of him. Kind of feel like he'll go to ManU, which has big pockets and even bigger needs.

Rodrygo looks fine, but Vini and Valverde are the ones taking a bid step forward. Vini is so quick, he moves like a lizard.

[M2]

Rodrygo looks fine, but Vini and Valverde are the ones taking a bid step forward. Vini is so quick, he moves like a lizard.

Vini's better, going to be a serious Balon D'Or contender in 2023. Fede's continuing the leap he took last year. Yet Rodrygo has turned into their anywhere guy - left, right, middle, in the #10. He's working some really slick combos. He's even with Fede on goals and has an extra assist. He's really good. Mbappe is better, but Mbappe is not €150M better. And if Mbappe wants to play the left, that job's taken.

Side note, I'm really liking Brazil's chances at this World Cup.

[M2]

Taj Buchanan should have earned a penalty v Athletico Madrid, instead Molina got the call and Buchanan got the yellow. Athletic get away with so much dirty play but Club Brugge hold on to the top spot in their group.
and Barca fought back (through Lewandowski) to earn a 3-3 draw vrs Internazionale (they were down 1-2 at 80 minutes).

Club Brugge is through to the knockout round with that win. Barca saved themselves with the tie, but they are staring into the abyss of a return to the Europa League. If Inter beats Victoria Plzen at the San Siro next round (highly likely) or Barca loses to Bayern (also highly likely), they are done. They've got El Clasico on Sunday and I'm hoping Madrid can add to their misery.

[Betterread]

Vini's better, going to be a serious Balon D'Or contender in 2023. Fede's continuing the leap he took last year. Yet Rodrygo has turned into their anywhere guy - left, right, middle, in the #10. He's working some really slick combos. He's even with Fede on goals and has an extra assist. He's really good. Mbappe is better, but Mbappe is not €150M better. And if Mbappe wants to play the left, that job's taken.

Side note, I'm really liking Brazil's chances at this World Cup.

But Madrid’s offense, at the moment, pales in comparison to its Midfield and Defenders. Militao, Alaba,Charvahal and Rudiger are just bossing everyone around. Alaba and Charvajal are nearly flawless in their positioning, passing and tackling. And the squad is trying to blend Rudiger in by playing him in central defense, even though Alaba is far better, so his passing choices are easier. Lewandowski will be a real test this weekend.

[M2]

But Madrid’s offense, at the moment, pales in comparison to its Midfield and Defenders. Militao, Alaba,Charvahal and Rudiger are just bossing everyone around. Alaba and Charvajal are nearly flawless in their positioning, passing and tackling. And the squad is trying to blend Rudiger in by playing him in central defense, even though Alaba is far better, so his passing choices are easier. Lewandowski will be a real test this weekend.

This is Madrid's first post-Sergio encounter with Lewa. After Lewa's somewhat famous hat trick against Madrid in 2013 (which I mostly hang on Diego Lopez in the net), Sergio figured out how to put Lewa in his pocket. Rudiger, who played with Lewa, might have some tricks on that front, but he finished Tuesday's game with a crimson mask and 20 stitches. So no clue how Madrid will line up in the back.

El Clasico is always super tense. On top of wanting to win, I totally want the morbo of compounding Barca's woes after they de facto booked their ticket back to the Europa League. For Barca, they want this to be their "Kill Madrid" team. They've had a rough past three years. Sunday is enormous for them.

[M2]

There's only one Matt Turner, and he should be Arsenal's regular keeper.

[M2]

There's a group in the Europa League with Feyenoord, Midtjyland, Lazio and Sturm Graz (high name values in that group) where are the teams are tied at 5 points with 2 games to play.

[M2]

If you hear a loud noise, that's the collective screams of Barca fans from around the world as they realize their club is headed back to the Europa League.

[Betterread]

Real Madrid’s excellent form has dipped this week with losses to RB Leipzig in Champions league and a tie in the BernaBeu with Girona in la liga.
The referee in the Girona match impacted the result with a bad call on ascension for the Girona penalty and a call that disallowed the winning Rodrygo goal.

[Betterread]

Double post.

[Betterread]

Real Madrid (until this week) were producing such high level performances since the beginning of the campaign in August. Their defense and midfield possession play has been dominant in game after game. The scoring part is the weakest part of the team, but with Benzema not 100% and valverde and Rodrygo improving, but still not quite world class level, it is understandable and fixable, especially with the resources RM commands. And I love that the club is letting Valverde and Rodrygo grow, without the pressure of playing with a prima donna like Mbappe.
Valverde is a player I really enjoy watching, along with Vinicius, of course. Their technical skills are so quick, It is special to watch.
In the past I have been reluctant to follow RM due to the overwhelming self-confidence and extreme product push and placement that are the club’s key strategies. But going to Madrid and seeing some games and practices have persuaded me. This is a sports team that is committed to excellence whatever the cost. So despite signing many overpriced contracts, if the players don’t fit the team, they will not play. Experiencing the whole stadium singing Hala Madrid before kickoff was like being in la Scala for a performance. In the Classico, the volume, the passion and the timing of the singing of that song were such a boost for the squad, you knew Barca had to come up with a special response, which they could not achieve.

[M2]

Real Madrid (until this week) were producing such high level performances since the beginning of the campaign in August. Their defense and midfield possession play has been dominant in game after game. The scoring part is the weakest part of the team, but with Benzema not 100% and valverde and Rodrygo improving, but still not quite world class level, it is understandable and fixable, especially with the resources RM commands. And I love that the club is letting Valverde and Rodrygo grow, without the pressure of playing with a prima donna like Mbappe.
Valverde is a player I really enjoy watching, along with Vinicius, of course. Their technical skills are so quick, It is special to watch.
In the past I have been reluctant to follow RM due to the overwhelming self-confidence and extreme product push and placement that are the club’s key strategies. But going to Madrid and seeing some games and practices have persuaded me. This is a sports team that is committed to excellence whatever the cost. So despite signing many overpriced contracts, if the players don’t fit the team, they will not play.

I actually think their defense has been a little clunky. They're mostly dominant, but they've conceded a few too many from momentary lapses. I'm not worried about it because they can clean that up (they pretty much did when Lunin was in net, which I think forced them to be more attentive). Yet they really do get the sporting side of things right. Most clubs wouldn't bench Hazard and play younger guys over him. Most clubs wouldn't have the nerve to switch out Casemiro for Tchouameni on the heels of winning a double.

And that Madrisimo attitude they carry isn't BS. You can see how it translates from player to player. They don't talk crap before or after the game. They keep their nerve in big games. They don't get swept up in a lot of drama. If Plan A doesn't work, they've got Plans B, C, D, E and F. When they lose they point at themselves. After yesterday's draw they were all saying if they had played better the calls wouldn't have mattered. Culture matters, and they've arguably got the best in the sport. It's been passed from Sanchis to Hierro to Raul to Casillas to Sergio to the current team (at least since I've been a fan).

I'm planning on heading over there next fall. Haven't seen them live since the 1980s. Time to rectify that. Figure we'll swing south (Cartagena, Granada, Ronda, Sevilla) and bookend it with Madrid games. Totally jealous you got to see El Clasico.

[M2]

Champions League draw:

Leipzig (GER) vs Manchester City (ENG)
Club Brugge (BEL) vs Benfica (POR)
Liverpool (ENG) vs Real Madrid (ESP)
AC Milan (ITA) vs Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
Frankfurt (GER) vs Napoli (ITA)
Dortmund (GER) vs Chelsea (ENG)
Inter (ITA) vs Porto (POR)
Paris Saint-Germain (FRA) vs Bayern (GER)

Lots of tasty matchups in there. Madrid-Liverpool and Bayern-PSG top the list. Those have both been one-sided rivalries in recent years, those are must-watch contests. Very interested to see how the four German and three Italian clubs do. Napoli is playing like a powerhouse so far this season. And don't sleep on the two Portuguese teams. Benfica in particular has had a strong season so far, and it just got (theoretically) the easiest draw in the round of 16.

And down in the Europa League, ManU and Barca have drawn each other.

[M2]

There's a group in the Europa League with Feyenoord, Midtjyland, Lazio and Sturm Graz (high name values in that group) where are the teams are tied at 5 points with 2 games to play.

And this group ended up with everyone tied at 8 points. Feyenoord won on the tiebreaker. Midtyland took 2nd. Lazio got punted down to the Europa Conference League. Sturm Graz got sent home.

[M2]

Liverpool lost today to Brentford, which leaves it 6th in the Prem. Brentford is right behind it in 7th place. What's really interesting is with Arsenal running way out front and 3rd place Newcastle occupying a Champions League slot at the moment, it means there might only be one CL slot for ManU, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea. Now, that's drama.

[M2]

If you have ESPN+, they play a fair number of Wrexham games (pays to have celebrity owners). They're worth the watch if for nothing else the long throws from their center back Ben Tozer. He's throwing lasers into the box. It's pretty amazing how many chances they create off of his throws.

[M2]

Arsenal with another dramatic step toward an EPL title with a late winner against ManU. They've got bottle. Right now the Gunners are five points clear with a game in hand, though there's still half a season to play. We probably should assume Man City will have a furious finish. Yet they look like the only club with the ability to give Arsenal a race.

[M2]

Here's Rodrygo doing Brazilian things - https://twitter.com/totalcristiano/status/1618751994780598272.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Arsenal refusing to make the Premier League race boring.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Excellent header by Emi Martinez to help arsenals title chance!

[M2]

Excellent header by Emi Martinez to help arsenals title chance!

Every time something bad happens to Martinez it is both earned and funny.

[M2]

Madrid-Liverpool, here we go.

[M2]

So, some thoughts on the Madrid-Liverpool game:

- There's still 90 more minutes to play, and Carlo Ancelotti will surely be reminding his team of how fragile leads can be. Liverpool may have its entire next season on the line when they play the return fixture. Even with a 3-goal lead, Madrid will need to match that intensity.

- I think there's a lesson in pressing here. It's great for 10-15 minutes, but once the other team starts to crack you, it can get ugly.

- Darwin Nunez's goal was beautiful and he played a great game (assured first touch, tracked back, played nice combinations, pressed like a demon). If Liverpool doesn't make it back to the CL next season, it's going to need to cut its wage bill and many players will be looking to leave for CL teams. In that scenario Nunez should be at the top of some shopping lists.

- Madrid might just be Liverpool's kryptonite team. This is the 4th time in six years they've collided in the Champions League and it continues to be the same result.

- Part of that kryptonite is a lopsided midfield advantage. Madrid had Fabinho and discarded him. Bajcetic is a baby. Jordan Henderson is...well...an English midfielder (a really good one, but I would argue not world class). Meanwhile, Luka Modric is a living legend, Eduardo Camavinga's experience is starting to catch up to his otherworldly talent and Fede Valverde is one of the most versatile players on the planet. Liverpool needs a better engine.

- Can't say enough good things about Nacho. He started at right back on Saturday, played center back in the Club World Cup and then came in to replace David Alaba at left back today. And once he came in, Mo Salah disappeared. Nacho finished the night wearing the captain's armband and it's not a coincidence he's been part of 21 titles/cups during his career. Somebody's got to do the hard, underappreciated work, and that guy always answers the call.

- Vini is a handful. First goal on a perfect shot through traffic. Second goal on a press of the keeper. A cool-as-you-like assist to Benz for the final goal. Constantly providing an outlet on the left (critical for breaking the press).

- I don't know how far Madrid is going to progress in this tournament (might not be past the next game), but what's it like to be Madrid fan? It's like being a Big Red Machine fan and it never ends. You get games like today on a regular basis. They reward your belief, which is all you can ask as a fan.

[M2]

Question on Napoli - they look to be the best Italian club since the 2017 Juve side, but does anyone here think they can make a deep run in the Champions League? Also, can they fend off poachers and keep their team together for a multi-year run?

[Chip R]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/psv-fan-punches-sevilla-goalkeeper-marko-dmitrovic-who-instantly-takes-him-down-215334505.html

[RedTeamGo!]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/psv-fan-punches-sevilla-goalkeeper-marko-dmitrovic-who-instantly-takes-him-down-215334505.html

Why anyone would want to fight a 6'4' world class athlete from Serbia, I have absolutely no idea.

[westofyou]

Why anyone would want to fight a 6'4' world class athlete from Serbia, I have absolutely no idea.

Let go of my Eggo

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/PFr9GQonilnCYNvoineCug--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2023-02/031521d0-b3c1-11ed-bedf-f5fdd5568b94

Nice fanny pack

[Chip R]

Why anyone would want to fight a 6'4' world class athlete from Serbia, I have absolutely no idea.

I'm just guessing but I would think alcohol and/or peer pressure. He and his mates were watching and probably began heckling the keeper. After a few more he and/or his mates got the idea to go on the pitch and fight the keeper. He either was a volunteer or he lost the bet. His mates probably bailed him out and gave him some money. I can't imagine doing that sober.

[Kingspoint]

Liverpool and Real Madrid are so much better than MLS soccer. It's like watching MLB vs College Baseball.

[Kingspoint]

Let go of my Eggo

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/PFr9GQonilnCYNvoineCug--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2023-02/031521d0-b3c1-11ed-bedf-f5fdd5568b94

Nice fanny pack

That is so hilarious. The courage of a *****cat.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Liverpool and Real Madrid are so much better than MLS soccer. It's like watching MLB vs College Baseball.

Yeah?

[Kingspoint]

Yeah?

I know I was speaking the obvious. I just don't watch enough international soccer to appreciate it.

[M2]

I know I was speaking the obvious. I just don't watch enough international soccer to appreciate it.

The difference in skills is stark. I come at it from the opposite direction, so I'm always wondering why MLS guys can't bring down 50-yard cross like they laid a fresh egg on a pillow.

[Kingspoint]

The difference in skills is stark. I come at it from the opposite direction, so I'm always wondering why MLS guys can't bring down 50-yard cross like they laid a fresh egg on a pillow.

When one guy did that, and the cross pass was even more amazing, in the Liverpool game, it was that pass that made me come here and make my comment. I giggle in awe.

And, it's all routine for them.

[M2]

When one guy did that, and the cross pass was even more amazing, in the Liverpool game, it was that pass that made me come here and make my comment. I giggle in awe.

And, it's all routine for them.

I watch every Madrid game. Have for a couple of decades. You should have seen Marcelo.

[Kingspoint]

I watch every Madrid game. Have for a couple of decades. You should have seen Marcelo.

That would be a great double-header....watch Rafa at Madrid and a home game for Real. The King and Queen would probably be in attendance at both.

[M2]

That would be a great double-header....watch Rafa at Madrid and a home game for Real. The King and Queen would probably be in attendance at both.

I'm planning on making the trip over in September. Won't get to see any tennis, but at least one home game at the Bernabeu is top of the list.

[Kingspoint]

I'm planning on making the trip over in September. Won't get to see any tennis, but at least one home game at the Bernabeu is top of the list.

It's considered to be the birthplace of modern man. Orson Welles had himself buried there.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/3587/orson-welles

[M2]

It's considered to be the birthplace of modern man. Orson Welles had himself buried there.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/3587/orson-welles

Studied there in college (which is how I became a Madrid fan), but it's been a few minutes since then. Probably will be like going to a whole new city.

[Kingspoint]

Studied there in college (which is how I became a Madrid fan), but it's been a few minutes since then. Probably will be like going to a whole new city.

Fantastic!

[Big Red Smokey]

Something special is going on at Arsenal...

[M2]

Something special is going on at Arsenal...

It's going to be one hell of a run to the finish line between Arsenal and Man City.

[BuckeyeRed27]

My birthday was last weekend and for a long time I was thinking about flying to London to go to the Bournemouth game and unfortunately ended up deciding against it. Oh well haha

[Big Red Smokey]

Yeah when I went to London for the 2016 Bengals-Redskins game I went up to Sunderland for an Arsenal match there. Got to tour the Emirates, but would LOVE to go to a match there this year. It's unreal what they're doing.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Yeah when I went to London for the 2016 Bengals-Redskins game I went up to Sunderland for an Arsenal match there. Got to tour the Emirates, but would LOVE to go to a match there this year. It's unreal what they're doing.

I went to Arsenal West Ham in 2017. Arsenal killed them, but it was during a pretty negative phase under Wenger and the crowd was weird. I had gone to a Liverpool Everton game the weekend before and the crowd was electric and would just love to experience something like that at Arsenal.

[M2]

Chelsea rallied to knock out Borussia Dortmund. Probably saves Graham Potter's job for the time being.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Chelsea rallied to knock out Borussia Dortmund. Probably saves Graham Potter's job for the time being.

Didn’t love Havertz got a retake. He did that stop at the ball thing before he kicked and a ton of Chelsea guys were in the box too.

[Big Red Smokey]

PSG scored 0 goals in 180 mins and goes out early again

[M2]

PSG scored 0 goals in 180 mins and goes out early again

Epic team.

[M2]

Don't sleep on this Barcelona referee payoff scandal - https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/barcelona-under-fire-over-payments-to-referee-prosecutors-file-corruption-charges-against-ex-barca-presidents/. Charges have officially been filed and, if proven, could lead to a stripping of titles that would make Lance Armstrong blush.


Spanish prosecutors have filed corruption charges against Barcelona and former club presidents Sandro Rosell and Josep Maria Bartomeu for allegedly making payments to a company owned by Jose Maria Enriquez Negreira, an ex-vice-president of the referee committee in Spain who worked under the Spanish football association between 1993 and 2018. Former club executives Oscar Grau and Albert Soler have also been listed in the case.

On Friday, the public prosecutor's office investigating the case revealed that Negreira received approximately over €7 million in payments from the club between 2001 and 2018 to influence match results. Their claim is that under a secret agreement and in exchange for payments, Negreira favored Barcelona in both decisions taken by referees in games played by the club as well as in competition results. If this is proven to be true, it could have a wide sweeping impact across the club and beyond.

"FC Barcelona reached and maintained a strictly confidential verbal agreement with Enriquez Negreira so that, in his capacity as vice-president of the CTA (Spanish football's referee's committee) and in exchange for money, he would carry out actions tending to favour Barcelona in the decision making of referees in the matches played by the club," read the documents from the prosecutor's office.

[Big Red Smokey]

Give Arsenal their Champions League. Now

[Big Red Smokey]

Man would love to see Osimhen at Arsenal. What a player

[M2]

Champions League draw is out, and I feel like it might have been operated by Italians.

In one half of the bracket, Napoli plays Milan with the winner playing whoever comes through the Inter vs. Benfica tie. That's a 75% chance of an Italian team in the final, though my expectation is Napoli and Benfica knock out the Milan sides and meet in the semis.

Meanwhile on the other side of the draw:

Defending champion Real Madrid plays 2021 champion Chelsea (third time in three years), and the winner of that clash get to play to victor 2020 champion Bayern Munich vs. top-rated club of the last half decade Man City. Wow is that stacked. Full group of death. All of the superheavyweights on one side, all of the cruiserweights on the other.

In the Europa League quarters, 2020 finalists Sevilla and ManU meet. The winner of that gets the winner of Juventus vs. Sporting (fresh off of eliminating Arsenal, who should have played Matt Turner). On the other side, last year's Europa Conference League finalists Roma and Feyenoord will take on the winner of Bayer Leverkusen and Union Saint-Gilloise (they're Swiss).

[BuckeyeRed27]

That midfield goal the Sporting guy made was just filthy.

Europa would have been nice, but I want to win the league and this clears the road. Assuming Arsenal would have had the Sporting spot the road was Juve then probably Man U…which isn’t easy.

[M2]

That midfield goal the Sporting guy made was just filthy.

Europa would have been nice, but I want to win the league and this clears the road. Assuming Arsenal would have had the Sporting spot the road was Juve then probably Man U…which isn’t easy.

Oh yeah, league above all for Arsenal. Still should have played Turner. He needs to leave that team (Leicester would be perfect).

Had Arsenal advanced, Juve might be easy pickings. They're having a rough season. And until some eliminates Sevilla (having a miserable season so far) in the Europa League, then I just assume they're going to win the Europa League (like they've done 6 times in the past 17 years and 4 times in the past 9).

[M2]

Two bizarre managerial firings recently. Julian Nagelsmann had Bayern Munich comfortably into the final 8 of the Champions League and they gave him the boot. He's being replaced by Thomas Tuchel. And in Tottenham, Antonio Conte's head exploded watching his team engineer another 5th place finish, so he made the mistake of telling the truth that no one's accountable at that club and now he's out.

[M2]

Didn't post when Chelsea sacked Graham Potter. He was a terrible hire. Never coached a club near that big. Had no clue how to handle star players, let alone the assembly of high-priced talent current on the Chelsea books. They tied Liverpool today, a disastrous result for both teams. Chelsea's only path into European football next season is to win the Champions League. If they don't, they're going to hold a fire sale that can be seen from space. So I don't know how many quality managers are going to line up for that. It's going to be horrific.

[M2]

The executioner's blade just fell on the neck of Chelsea Football Club. Madrid knocked them out of the Champions League with a 4-0 aggregate. Meanwhile Chelsea is 17 points out of the Champions League slots in the EPL with only 7 games remaining. They're not going back to European football and the massive payday that comes with it, which means the club will need to make drastic reductions to its £228M wage bill. The fire sale is coming. Any thoughts on who's staying and who's going?

[M2]

Newcastle beat Tottenham 6-1 to put itself firmly in the driver's seat for a Champions League slot (up 6 points with 7 to play). And Antonio Conte was 100% right about the culture at Spurs.

[Kingspoint]

Sorry about the loss today, M2.

[BuckeyeRed27]

City are just gross right now.

[M2]

City are just gross right now.

Credit to them. They dropped the hammer today. Can't imagine they'll fail to beat Inter in the CL final.

[M2]

Sorry about the loss today, M2.

Honestly, I'm still drunk on last year's run.

[Big Red Smokey]

Eh I mean everyone knows City's whole empire is built on cheating. They've officially made a mockery of World Futbol.

Why even root for anyone else at this point, they will just spend and the rules don't matter.

[M2]

Sevilla just knocked down an old lady. Never bet against that club in the Europa League.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I love promotion playoffs.

Peterborough took a 4-0 lead into Sheffield Wednesday. Wednesday stormed back, tied it 4-4 to force extra time. Peterborough took the lead in ET, only for Wednesday to level it again a few minutes later, force kicks and drill all 5 to advance to Wembley.

How can you not love soccer?

[M2]

I love promotion playoffs.

Peterborough took a 4-0 lead into Sheffield Wednesday. Wednesday stormed back, tied it 4-4 to force extra time. Peterborough took the lead in ET, only for Wednesday to level it again a few minutes later, force kicks and drill all 5 to advance to Wembley.

How can you not love soccer?

Luton Town and Coventry City will be playing to get into the Premier League, which is blowing my mind.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Luton Town and Coventry City will be playing to get into the Premier League, which is blowing my mind.

I want it to be Luton Town because holy crap that stadium is just amazing.

[M2]

Yesterday in Valencia, most of the crowd of 47,000 directed a "mono" (monkey) chant at Vinicius. Racist abuse has been an issue all year long for Vini during league road games. This time it was stadium-wide. In fact, there was a massive throng of Valencia fans outside the stadium when the Real Madrid bus arrived to greet Vini with a racist chant. Here's some video which puts how bad it's gotten into stark perspective - https://twitter.com/sara_2437/status/1660721991546970136.

Spain's had problems with racism in the past and the league is utterly failing to deal with this eruption in the present. Madrid has filed a complaint with Spain's Attorney General, insisting the abuse at the Valencia game constituted a violation of Spanish law. Brazil turned off the lights on the Christ the Redeemer statue in Rio for an hour to show solidarity with Vini. This is swiftly turning into an international incident. Would not be surprised if UEFA and/or FIFA get involved.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wish the teams would have walked off.

[M2]

Wish the teams would have walked off.

They should have, at least Madrid as Valencia's manager and players haven't shown any concern over it. I think there might be league penalties (monetary and possibly points) if a team walks off the pitch. Oddly enough, those might have been put in place after Valencia walked off in April, 2021 when Mouctar Diakhaby had a racist epithet tossed his way by a Cadiz player.

[Red Heeler]

Something I’ve been wondering about. Obviously the monkey chant and throwing bananas on the field are deplorable, but why not make a mockery of it? Pick up a banana and eat it while waving to the crowd. Do an ape dance as a celebration for a goal. Make it look just as ridiculous as it really is. Throw it back at them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tony Cloninger]

Credit to them. They dropped the hammer today. Can't imagine they'll fail to beat Inter in the CL final.


I detest BD even more. Selling Haaland for nothing. Can’t be bothered to win their own league that Bayern was giving them.

Also how great is the EPL that Haaland can turn it into a joke like he did. Haaland was not this good in Germany. Or did I miss it?

[BuckeyeRed27]

I detest BD even more. Selling Haaland for nothing. Can’t be bothered to win their own league that Bayern was giving them.

Also how great is the EPL that Haaland can turn it into a joke like he did. Haaland was not this good in Germany. Or did I miss it?

You missed it. He scores a little bit more because he has KDB, but he was ridiculous and was 20-21 years old ar Dortmund.

[Tony Cloninger]

You missed it. He scores a little bit more because he has KDB, but he was ridiculous and was 20-21 years old ar Dortmund.


Ok. Thank you. Makes Dortmund look even worse. Just tough to enjoy European soccer and how things are run. Even baseball’s financial structure is not as bad with no chance at all.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ok. Thank you. Makes Dortmund look even worse. Just tough to enjoy European soccer and how things are run. Even baseball’s financial structure is not as bad with no chance at all.

For the resources Dortmund has they have been pretty elite and they might be the best development club in Europe. Bayern is a bit of a machine.

[M2]

I detest BD even more. Selling Haaland for nothing. Can’t be bothered to win their own league that Bayern was giving them.

Also how great is the EPL that Haaland can turn it into a joke like he did. Haaland was not this good in Germany. Or did I miss it?

There was some clause in the contract when Dortmund bought Haaland from RB Salzburg that kept his transfer fee low.

Haaland's scoring so much at City because he's got a machine around him. Also, he was a goal-a-game player at Dortmund (86 in 89 games), so 52 in 51 games with City isn't exactly anything new for him. He missed some time last season, which is probably what's throwing off your perception. Though no argument from me that the EPL is way overrated.

Anyway, if you're furious at Dortmund, you can take solace in them losing the league in heartbreaking fashion on the last day of the season. Also, their best player is going to Madrid next season.

[M2]

Ok. Thank you. Makes Dortmund look even worse. Just tough to enjoy European soccer and how things are run. Even baseball’s financial structure is not as bad with no chance at all.

You are missing the point, and by a wide margin. The European model is not, never has been and never will be about creating the false sense of equality. The leagues aren't closed systems. The big clubs do dominate the leagues. There are more things they should do to open that up. Yet the point in those leagues is every club can dream of being able to play against those giant clubs, and maybe even beat them on a given night (and when that happens, those nights live on in legend).

Check out the reaction to Luton Town getting promoted to the EPL - https://twitter.com/LutonTown/status/1663189235015327749. There is NOTHING like that in American sport. Nothing close to that communal level of joy. Even when teams win titles here it's less than that. Luton is a club that was in danger of dropping into the semi-pro ranks a decade ago. Now they're going to cross swords with some of the top clubs in the world. Are they going to win the EPL? Almost assuredly not. But their fans just got the golden ticket. It's like if the Dayton Dragons made it to MLB.

Now, if you want the America model of brand names playing each other, we have lots of leagues in different sports (including soccer) that give you that.

[Tony Cloninger]

There was some clause in the contract when Dortmund bought Haaland from RB Salzburg that kept his transfer fee low.

Haaland's scoring so much at City because he's got a machine around him. Also, he was a goal-a-game player at Dortmund (86 in 89 games), so 52 in 51 games with City isn't exactly anything new for him. He missed some time last season, which is probably what's throwing off your perception. Though no argument from me that the EPL is way overrated.

Anyway, if you're furious at Dortmund, you can take solace in them losing the league in heartbreaking fashion on the last day of the season. Also, their best player is going to Madrid next season.


No I wanted them to win. Bayern is the same disease that is Barcelona. RM. Benfica and Porto in Portugal. What PSG is becoming. What Juventus had been until finally caught again with their BS.

[Tony Cloninger]

You are missing the point, and by a wide margin. The European model is not, never has been and never will be about creating the false sense of equality. The leagues aren't closed systems. The big clubs do dominate the leagues. There are more things they should do to open that up. Yet the point in those leagues is every club can dream of being able to play against those giant clubs, and maybe even beat them on a given night (and when that happens, those nights live on in legend).

Check out the reaction to Luton Town getting promoted to the EPL - https://twitter.com/LutonTown/status/1663189235015327749. There is NOTHING like that in American sport. Nothing close to that communal level of joy. Even when teams win titles here it's less than that. Luton is a club that was in danger of dropping into the semi-pro ranks a decade ago. Now they're going to cross swords with some of the top clubs in the world. Are they going to win the EPL? Almost assuredly not. But their fans just got the golden ticket. It's like if the Dayton Dragons made it to MLB.

Now, if you want the America model of brand names playing each other, we have lots of leagues in different sports (including soccer) that give you that.

No I get it. I’m just DQ fighting against the windmills and raging against the machine. I was born in Uruguay so I know how that whole system works. They have it in that league too. That’s why I rooted for the only Anglo related team they have there. Liverpool.

It should be better than that though. You should not have to end up being a feeder team. Some teams are able to rise above that.

Atletico Madrid used to be that feeder team too. Sevilla gave Barcelona some of their best players during the 2010s. What they accomplish even with that mentality is amazing.

Southampton should have been a top 10 club. Years of feeding other teams. At least the EPL besides MC becoming another Bayern is still more open.

I don’t dislike the relegation aspects of the sport. To give teams like Eibar in LL or of course what happened in the Championship this year is great.

I also like that they created another competition under the Europa League.

The only league that I can say handles equity with every team is the NFL. Of course then you have Cleveland making a joke of the salary cap by restructuring their QB contract.

[bucksfan2]

Lutton Town going to the EPL is awesome! I wonder what they have to do to sustain their success, but they are a major reason promotion and relegation are awesome.

I am sad to see Leeds be relegated. Took a liking to them because of the American connection, but man the wheels fell off of their club. Interested to see what happens to Aaronson and Adams.

The rise and subsequent fall of Leicester is fascinating.

[Tony Cloninger]

Lutton Town going to the EPL is awesome! I wonder what they have to do to sustain their success, but they are a major reason promotion and relegation are awesome.

I am sad to see Leeds be relegated. Took a liking to them because of the American connection, but man the wheels fell off of their club. Interested to see what happens to Aaronson and Adams.

The rise and subsequent fall of Leicester is fascinating.


Didn’t Leeds get burned out riding that hyper active type of offense they ran with their former coach. Who got them promoted. It was a version of the Denver Nuggets run and gun offense with Paul Westhead or the run and shoot offenses of the NFL.

That same coach. I know cannot get his name in my head. He’s now The coach for Uruguay NT. I’m excited that they have someone who isn’t afraid of offense. Especially when you have the players to do it.

[M2]

Didn’t Leeds get burned out riding that hyper active type of offense they ran with their former coach. Who got them promoted. It was a version of the Denver Nuggets run and gun offense with Paul Westhead or the run and shoot offenses of the NFL.

That same coach. I know cannot get his name in my head. He’s now The coach for Uruguay NT. I’m excited that they have someone who isn’t afraid of offense. Especially when you have the players to do it.

Bielsa. I'd compare him more to Doug Moe (whose crazy offensive Nuggets teams won a lot) than Westhead, who presided over the franchise's eventual fall. Though you're right about it being tough for a club to shift away from that model to something defensive-oriented.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Leeds would have made it if Adams wouldn’t have gotten hurt in March. Firing Marsch was probably stupid too.

[bucksfan2]

Leeds would have made it if Adams wouldn’t have gotten hurt in March. Firing Marsch was probably stupid too.

It seems like teams in the EPL are very reactionary when it comes to managerial decisions. If you are a club who expect to qualify for the Champions League, if you fall behind the manager is sacked. If you are a middle of the table club but are hanging in relegation zone, the manager is sacked. If you are a bottom feeder and you have a rough start to the season, the manager is sacked.

I get it in part because of the financial impact of Champions League or staying in the EPL, but too often it seems reactionary, when sticking with your original plan may be the best course of action.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It seems like teams in the EPL are very reactionary when it comes to managerial decisions. If you are a club who expect to qualify for the Champions League, if you fall behind the manager is sacked. If you are a middle of the table club but are hanging in relegation zone, the manager is sacked. If you are a bottom feeder and you have a rough start to the season, the manager is sacked.

I get it in part because of the financial impact of Champions League or staying in the EPL, but too often it seems reactionary, when sticking with your original plan may be the best course of action.

They are often ridiculous decisions, mostly because they don’t have a real plan on the replacement. Leeds brought in a guy who ran an entirely different system and their GD went from -8 to -30 over like 14 games and then they had to panic fire him and try the Big Sam Hail Mary. Just stupid.

[M2]

It seems like teams in the EPL are very reactionary when it comes to managerial decisions. If you are a club who expect to qualify for the Champions League, if you fall behind the manager is sacked. If you are a middle of the table club but are hanging in relegation zone, the manager is sacked. If you are a bottom feeder and you have a rough start to the season, the manager is sacked.

It also intersects with a club mindset over there of, when something goes wrong, no matter how minor, blame the nearest Yank.

[Tony Cloninger]

It seems like teams in the EPL are very reactionary when it comes to managerial decisions. If you are a club who expect to qualify for the Champions League, if you fall behind the manager is sacked. If you are a middle of the table club but are hanging in relegation zone, the manager is sacked. If you are a bottom feeder and you have a rough start to the season, the manager is sacked.

I get it in part because of the financial impact of Champions League or staying in the EPL, but too often it seems reactionary, when sticking with your original plan may be the best course of action.


You should see what some owners in Italy do. Palermo went through 4 managers one year to avoid relegation.

[M2]

NEVER bet against Sevilla in the Europa League.

[RedTeamGo!]

What a season by AFC Richmond

[MWM]

This game is about as exciting as the Chelsea - Man city and Tottenham - Liverpool finals were.