NFL 2022 Season - Continued…

[Roy Tucker]

Why not? Teams play Sunday and then Thursday every week in the season.

I guess that’s feasible. I do know teams hate playing those Thursday games under the best of times. And these are not the best of times, particularly for the Bills. I personally think it would be in very poor taste to play but I come from “it’s just a game” school of thought. But thinking about it, I wouldn’t be shocked if they do that.

[WrongVerb]

19091

[Sea Ray]

I think there's a lot of pressure on the NFL to prioritize player safety in this decision. The safest thing for the players is to not ask them to make it up. Ties happen in the NFL. I think they'll either cancel the game or declare it a tie. Both options have the same implications on the playoffs

I disagree with anyone who says this game has huge playoff implications. No, both teams are comfortably in the playoffs. This game only affects seeding

[Boston Red]

This game only affects seeding

"Only"

[WVRed]

I agree. It will be tough enough for them to play this coming weekend.

Sometimes real life intrudes into pro sports. Given the circumstance that a young’s man life is in the balance, the Bills and Bengals will uncomplainingly go along with cancelling the game and the effect on the standings. Goodell will hopefully act in an appropriate way.

Saw a tweet that the Bengals lit up Paycor Stadium in Bills blue and white last night. A nice gesture.

I know the Bengals are my team but Cincinnati as a whole was a class act last night.

There may be some outliers on social media but as a whole the fans and organization did everything they could.

Zac Taylor essentially standing up to the league office and meeting at midfield with McDermott I think was the most positive moment of the entire night.

[WVRed]

I think there's a lot of pressure on the NFL to prioritize player safety in this decision. The safest thing for the players is to not ask them to make it up. Ties happen in the NFL. I think they'll either cancel the game or declare it a tie. Both options have the same implications on the playoffs

I disagree with anyone who says this game has huge playoff implications. No, both teams are comfortably in the playoffs. This game only affects seeding

Best thing to do is ask Buffalo. Put it in their court (respectfully). If they don’t want to make it up they know they will more than likely be playing KC and /or Cincinnati on the road in the playoffs. That’s likely not very important right now but only the players in the Buffalo locker room know that right now.

[Boston Red]

Best thing to do is ask Buffalo. Put it in their court (respectfully).

Exactly. They have quite a bit to lose seeding wise by not playing the game, so if they don't want to play, much respect to them. If they want to play, also great.

[Roy Tucker]

Exactly. They have quite a bit to lose seeding wise by not playing the game, so if they don't want to play, much respect to them. If they want to play, also great.

A big thumbs up to that.

I’ve walked the planet a long time now but continue to be reminded I don’t know everything. Hopefully this brings out the humanity in all of us.

[dabvu2498]

The tough thing is, the Bills flew home about midnight last night. They’d either have to fly back to Cincy tonight or fly and play on the same day. I don’t see either of those scenarios happening.

[Sea Ray]

Best thing to do is ask Buffalo. Put it in their court (respectfully). If they don’t want to make it up they know they will more than likely be playing KC and /or Cincinnati on the road in the playoffs. That’s likely not very important right now but only the players in the Buffalo locker room know that right now.

They won't be playing the Bengals on the road because of agreeing to a tie. If they say "don't make it up" they're essentially saying yes to the possibility of playing in KC and in Buffalo vs the Bengals

[WrongVerb]

Houston Texans give players day off after Damar Hamlin's collapse on field (https://www.fox26houston.com/news/houston-texans-players-day-off-after-damar-hamlin-collapse)

No word if other teams are following suit.

[Sea Ray]

Exactly. They have quite a bit to lose seeding wise by not playing the game, so if they don't want to play, much respect to them. If they want to play, also great.

The only thing they lose by not playing the game is the home field with KC. That's it

[Hypnotoad]

I think if the power went out or if lightning halted the game, resuming it a day or two later would be a sensible option. But with so many troubled players I don't see that as reasonable.

[Sea Ray]

Houston Texans give players day off after Damar Hamlin's collapse on field (https://www.fox26houston.com/news/houston-texans-players-day-off-after-damar-hamlin-collapse)

No word if other teams are following suit.

Most teams that play on Sunday get Tuesdays off

[RiverRat13]

The only thing they lose by not playing the game is the home field with KC. That's it

They also lose out on the bye.

Both the Bills and Bengals will lose out on a chance to improve their position, but I think the right thing here is to declare it a no contest.

[Boston Red]

By the way, I think the officials could be forgiven for thinking the game would continue. What happened was basically unprecedented in the NFL. Guys have broken their necks/been paralyzed, and the game went on. In basketball, Florida had a player collapse 5 minutes into a game against Florida State, and he was stretchered off to a hospital in critical condition. The game went on. Hank Gathers and John McSherry literally dying on the court and field, respectively, are the only times I remember a game being cancelled due to a medical issue midstream. An NHL goalie literally had his jugular cut during a game, and they played on.

I think the absolute right decision was made last night. 100% without a doubt. However, I don't think anyone can be blamed for not IMMEDIATELY recognizing that the game couldn't go on. Because usually they do.

- - - Updated - - -


The only thing they lose by not playing the game is the home field with KC. That's it

"Only"

[Sea Ray]

They also lose out on the bye.

Both the Bills and Bengals will lose out on a chance to improve their position, but I think the right thing here is to declare it a no contest.

I think the Bills (and the Bengals to some extent) should weigh in. My guess is the Bills would prefer to accept the dropping from 1 seed to 2 seed rather than squeeze this game in

[Sea Ray]

"Only"

I get it. I think we're going to hear soon that the game will not be played AND you'll hear a full endorsement of that decision by the Bills. They don't feel that the #1 seed is important enough to play this game

[Boston Red]

I get it. I think we're going to hear soon that the game will not be played AND you'll hear a full endorsement of that decision by the Bills. They don't feel that the #1 seed is important enough to play this game

I think you're probably right. And as long as the Bills are okay with that, everyone else should be, too.

[KoryMac5]

As a MH professional no way would I want Bills or Bengals players going back to the area where Hamlin went down and had life saving measures administered to him for several mins...it was traumatic just seeing it unfold on TV. No way I would want those players retraumatized again.

It will be hard enough for these 2 teams to try and get through this week.

I would scrap the game.

[Roy Tucker]

I’m glad I’m not the one that has to make a decision on this.

[Sea Ray]

Not that it matters necessarily but I think not playing the game hurts the Bengals more than the Bills. The Bengals were playing well, had the home crowd and the Bills were suffering injuries, including Allen's leg/ankle. All signs were pointing towards their winning the game

[BuckeyeRed27]

NFL says no Bengals Bills game this week and no changes to week 18. So unless they push back the playoffs it’s probably not getting played.

[Wonderful Monds]

Tweet going around right now:

.
@MikeReiss
tells us he “wouldn't be shocked" if the Patriots don't play the Bills on Sunday...

[Rojo Rijo]

By the way, I think the officials could be forgiven for thinking the game would continue. What happened was basically unprecedented in the NFL. Guys have broken their necks/been paralyzed, and the game went on. In basketball, Florida had a player collapse 5 minutes into a game against Florida State, and he was stretchered off to a hospital in critical condition. The game went on. Hank Gathers and John McSherry literally dying on the court and field, respectively, are the only times I remember a game being cancelled due to a medical issue midstream. An NHL goalie literally had his jugular cut during a game, and they played on.

I think the absolute right decision was made last night. 100% without a doubt. However, I don't think anyone can be blamed for not IMMEDIATELY recognizing that the game couldn't go on. Because usually they do.

- - - Updated - - -



"Only"

In the UF/FSU hoops game the players were given the choice and chose to play. I've always felt in these types of situations that the right thing to do is to allow the players to decide. Now I know that's a lot tougher in a football game where 100 or so players are involved versus a basketball game where only the team with the injured player was given the choice, a total of 13 or 14 guys.

Either way last night was the right call. Going forward is a sensitive subject. While I feel the players being forced to play the game within 24-48 hours of the incident would be wrong I also don't agree with what im seeing where people are suggesting things like cancelling additional games, some even going as far as to say cancel the season. Hopefully Damar will begin his journey to a full recovery, or as close as he can get to it, and hopefully the Bills can play their remaining games in support of their teammate.

[Tuff Nut]

Www.footballzebras.com/2023/... Someone posted this on another site...had some interesting info...one is that Goddell cannot force a forfeit, too many inter-team ramifications. Good read.

[Bob Sheed]

kind of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem as far as what to do moving forward.

[WrongVerb]

Www.footballzebras.com/2023/... Someone posted this on another site...had some interesting info...one is that Goddell cannot force a forfeit, too many inter-team ramifications. Good read.

This is intriguing:


There could be some quick changes to the Ravens-Bengals and Patriots-Bills games to move them up to Friday, resuming the suspended game on Tuesday, and scheduling one or two wild card games (as needed, depending if the Bills clinch the #1 seed) on Monday.

If they pushed the resumption of the Bengals-Bills game on Wednesday, they could have the WC games on Tuesday, and the Divisiveness playoff games involving either or both teams Monday.

[JaxRed]

This is intriguing:



If they pushed the resumption of the Bengals-Bills game on Wednesday, they could have the WC games on Tuesday, and the Divisiveness playoff games involving either or both teams Monday.

If they are going to have Divisiveness playoffs games they should hire Gruden and Urban as consultants.

[BuckeyeRed27]

This is intriguing:



If they pushed the resumption of the Bengals-Bills game on Wednesday, they could have the WC games on Tuesday, and the Divisiveness playoff games involving either or both teams Monday.

This would suck and is incredibly unfair to the Bills and Bengals. You absolutely couldn’t play all your starters in that short amount of time.

[KoryMac5]

Several sites spoke with the uncle of Hamlin…said he was resuscitated 2 times last night. Said he is improving and lung function is up to 50 percent. Docs worried about long term lung damage.

[Sea Ray]

Several sites spoke with the uncle of Hamlin…said he was resuscitated 2 times last night. Said he is improving and lung function is up to 50 percent. Docs worried about long term lung damage.

I don't think this means his lung function is 50%:


Glenn said Hamlin remains sedated in the ICU at the University of Cincinnati Medical Center. He added that Hamlin is on a ventilator but has improved from 100% oxygen needed to 50% oxygen needed.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/damar-hamlins-uncle-provides-update-on-bills-safety/4026921/

The air we breathe is about 20% oxygen.

Not good that he had to be resuscitated again at the hospital

[Danny Serafini]

Please don't bring anti-vax garbage into this. It's a bad enough situation without the political BS.

[cumberlandreds]

WARNING ******* Do not post anything political in this forum or anywhere other than that particular forum. Any more like the post I just deleted and you will be suspended or banned from RZ.

[Slyder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Igj554XaI

[Roy Tucker]

Lance posted this on FB which seems a likely resolution to continuing the Bengals-Bills game.


Here is what I believe the NFL will do.
Cincinnati Bengals-Bills won't be made up. Under any circumstances. The league will not push the playoff schedule back a week in order to play one game next week.

The MNF game won't be declared a tie. The Bengals won't be awarded the win. The Bills won't forfeit. The game simply won't be played. The two teams will play 16 games, while the other 30 teams will play 17.

The reality is there is no perfect solution. Some team(s) will come out on the short end of the stick.

What happens if the game is not made up:
The Bengals win AFC North....no matter what happens Sunday.
If they beat Baltimore they win the division by 2.5 games. (Bengals 12-4/Ravens 10-7).
If they lose to Baltimore they still win the division by .5 game.
(Bengals 11-5/Ravens 11-6).

The Ravens will be livid. Understandably. There is a chance they could beat the Bengals twice and yet lose the division by a half game because the Bengals played one less game.

The NFL won't announce that MNF won't be made up until AFTER the conclusion of games on Sunday. Announcing the decision prior would eliminate any drama of the AFC North title.

What's left? Seeding.
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.

No 1 seed:
The Bengals would be eliminated from contention for the No. 1 seed if MNF is not made up. They would not be able to catch Kansas City (13-3), no matter the result of Chiefs vs Raiders on Sunday.

No. 2 seed:
The No. 2 seed would still be in play for the Bengals.
The Bengals could edge out the Bills for the No. 2 seed IF the Bengals beat the Ravens AND the Bills lose to Patriots.

That would leave the Bengals and Bills both at 12-4. The Bengals would win by the 5th tiebreaker...Strength of Victory (combed winning percentage of the opponents a team has beaten).....
The Bengals currently hold a .483-.479 advantage in SOV.

That's my best guess.
Got it?
There will be a quiz on all of this.

[Boss-Hog]

Lance posted this on FB which seems a likely resolution to continuing the Bengals-Bills game.As a Bengals fan, I'd be fine with this, but part of me feels like the affected teams (Bengals, Bills and Ravens) should know the plan for the Bengals/Bills game before Sunday so they know how to approach their respective week 18 games. I'd hate for a key player to get hurt in a game he otherwise wouldn't have been playing in just so the NFL can keep things as dramatic as possible.

[westofyou]

1972 MLB had a season that found the Tigers winning the division by a half a game, and playing one more game than the 2nd place Red Sox. This was due to a players strike affecting the beginning of the season. However, all the teams agreed to the schedule and signed off on something occurring (which it did) that affected the standings.

This is a bit different

[WVRed]

Lance posted this on FB which seems a likely resolution to continuing the Bengals-Bills game.

So the big winner is KC and Cincinnati if that happens. The Chiefs essentially win the no 1 seed outright and the Bengals win the North and home field in the first round.

I do agree with Boss in that it could be the difference in the Ravens playing Lamar Jackson or Tyler Huntley.

[KoryMac5]

So the big winner is KC and Cincinnati if that happens. The Chiefs essentially win the no 1 seed outright and the Bengals win the North and home field in the first round.

I do agree with Boss in that it could be the difference in the Ravens playing Lamar Jackson or Tyler Huntley.

Lamar may not play another down this season...whispers are circulating around the league he may not be back. Remember Harbaugh said he was week to week when first injured.

I think he is concerned about injury and his next contract enough to stay home...

[Boston Red]

I think he is concerned about injury and his next contract enough to stay home...

I love Lamar....but man would sitting out a playoff game when you're healthy enough to play be a questionable strategy when trying to convince someone to pay you a whole F-ton of money.

[medford]

Lamar not playing was speculated early on as well. I always assumed the competitor in him would want to get back out there, but I can see the logic of his agent (ie himself) staying in his ear (ie brain) that without the guaranteed money he could piss away a lot of money playing on a bum knee with their style of offense. And kind of like how a lot of people would be hesitant to draft Leonard Fornette high when he became the first really high profile dude to skip a bowl game, I imagine this will become a trend more often down the line.

QBs are hard to come by, someone will pay Lamar this offseason. Maybe not as much as he wants, but something pretty substaintail. If he blows up his knee and is rehabbing thru October of next year those offers are going to dry up quick. I assume he will be franchised if they can't come to agreement on a deal, but someone will make trade offers for Lamar for sure. If his knee is wrecked, he has lost what makes him special and seperates him from so many QBs and allows himself to catchup in ability to those with better passing skills than he possesses.

[Tuff Nut]

I saw this being floated around..

Week 19
Bills/ Bengals
NFC wildcard playoffs
AFC wildcard bye week

Week 2o
AFC wildcard playoffs
NFC playoffs bye

Here is they way I see it. Kansas City wins Saturday and Buffalo loses Sunday, KC gets #1 seed. Cincy can get #2 reguardless if they win or lose, if they beat Buffalo Week 19. IF the Chiefs lose Saturday , Bills lose, and Cincy wins, winner of Week 20 gets #1 seed, loser gets #3 seed, KC gets #2.

[Boston Red]

Lamar not playing was speculated early on as well. I always assumed the competitor in him would want to get back out there, but I can see the logic of his agent (ie himself) staying in his ear (ie brain) that without the guaranteed money he could piss away a lot of money playing on a bum knee with their style of offense. And kind of like how a lot of people would be hesitant to draft Leonard Fornette high when he became the first really high profile dude to skip a bowl game, I imagine this will become a trend more often down the line.

QBs are hard to come by, someone will pay Lamar this offseason. Maybe not as much as he wants, but something pretty substaintail. If he blows up his knee and is rehabbing thru October of next year those offers are going to dry up quick. I assume he will be franchised if they can't come to agreement on a deal, but someone will make trade offers for Lamar for sure. If his knee is wrecked, he has lost what makes him special and seperates him from so many QBs and allows himself to catchup in ability to those with better passing skills than he possesses.

I guess...but if he's thinking that conservatively he should have taken the money the Ravens offered last offseason. The pot of money isn't going to be bigger this offseason if he's a healthy scratch from the playoffs.

[Sea Ray]

I guess...but if he's thinking that conservatively he should have taken the money the Ravens offered last offseason. The pot of money isn't going to be bigger this offseason if he's a healthy scratch from the playoffs.

It's all about the guaranteed money. The Ravens offered $133mill guaranteed. He wants Watson money or at least Kyler Murray ($190mill guaranteed). For the record those are two of the worst contracts in the NFL. A team would be advised not to guarantee such money to a small mobile QB

[Boston Red]

I understand. I just don't expect him to get MORE guaranteed money by sitting out. He was supposed to be betting on himself this year. I guess not.

[Wonderful Monds]

If I were the owner of a team with a playoff appearance on the line and my impending free agent QB tried to sit out that game as a healthy scratch, I think I’d just let him walk. If not suspend him for that last game and fine him a game check, if that’s possible.

[KoryMac5]

I don’t know if he would go the healthy scratch route but I do think he won’t come back unless he feels 100 percent healthy…he most likely remembers what happened to RGIII.

[KoryMac5]

Double post

[Rojo Rijo]

I don’t know if he would go the healthy scratch route but I do think he won’t come back unless he feels 100 percent healthy…he most likely remembers what happened to RGIII.

This was my exact thought. We’ve seen it before and it’s costs guys tons of money. RGIII with Washington, Matt Harvey with the Mets. You have to protect your value.

If I’m Lamar no way I’m playing. Business decision. He knows it’s risky and when you add that to a Ravens offense that hasn’t been anything special I can’t imagine he’d go for it.

[WVRed]

This was my exact thought. We’ve seen it before and it’s costs guys tons of money. RGIII with Washington, Matt Harvey with the Mets. You have to protect your value.

If I’m Lamar no way I’m playing. Business decision. He knows it’s risky and when you add that to a Ravens offense that hasn’t been anything special I can’t imagine he’d go for it.

And to be fair, I don’t think Baltimore is going to be doing anything long term with him anyways.

As much as it pains me to say it, Baltimore, like Pittsburgh, is a smart organization. They have maximized Jackson’s short term potential and have reaped the rewards for it. That said we all know run first QBs like Jackson and Fields are not known for longevity.

I could seriously see the Ravens trading him to a QB needy team who would overpay and take that pick and select Anthony Richardson who is Lamar 2.0.

[UKFlounder]

The guy from Florida? Maybe he’s a prospect but he wasn’t nearly as good in college as Lamar. Couldn’t they get him with their own pick or are draft guys predicting him to go high?

I’ve paid no attention to the draft yet, but Richardson was much more hype than production in most games I saw.

I’m no scout so maybe I’m wrong



select Anthony Richardson who is Lamar 2.0.

[KoryMac5]

And to be fair, I don’t think Baltimore is going to be doing anything long term with him anyways.

As much as it pains me to say it, Baltimore, like Pittsburgh, is a smart organization. They have maximized Jackson’s short term potential and have reaped the rewards for it. That said we all know run first QBs like Jackson and Fields are not known for longevity.

I could seriously see the Ravens trading him to a QB needy team who would overpay and take that pick and select Anthony Richardson who is Lamar 2.0.

Trade deadline has passed and Jackson is a Free Agent after this season...so no trade. Big risk for the Ravens to move on...they are probably a 6/7 win team without him. Huntley has been abysmal...so the Ravens are getting a good look at life without Lamar.

[Sea Ray]

Anthony Richardson is not nearly as mobile and quick as Lamar

[Slyder]

Trade deadline has passed and Jackson is a Free Agent after this season...so no trade. Big risk for the Ravens to move on...they are probably a 6/7 win team without him. Huntley has been abysmal...so the Ravens are getting a good look at life without Lamar.

Franchise tag.

[KoryMac5]

Franchise tag.

45 million guaranteed to tag him...that would be some drama...hold out etc...

[RiverRat13]

45 million guaranteed to tag him...that would be some drama...hold out etc...

The drama would be worth the multiple first round picks the Ravens would eventually get. There's no way they just let him walk.

[KoryMac5]

The drama would be worth the multiple first round picks the Ravens would eventually get. There's no way they just let him walk.

They can't trade him until he signs the tag though once that happens it's basically Watson all over without the legal issues...

[Bob Sheed]

I'm hoping the Ravens make Jackson the all-time highest paid QB. With the most years possible.

Let's see the Ravens dig themselves deep on this one. Realllll deep. Like, Denver Broncos deep. :lol:

[KoryMac5]

I'm hoping the Ravens make Jackson the all-time highest paid QB. With the most years possible.

Let's see the Ravens dig themselves deep on this one. Realllll deep. Like, Denver Broncos deep. :lol:

I could see Washington being all for 250 million guaranteed...

[RichRed]

I could see Washington being all for 250 million guaranteed...

Sadly, so could I. I could also see them breaking the bank for Carr. It would be their way of “fixing” the Wentz debacle, which everyone knew would be a disaster. Well, everyone but the Washington front office, that is.

[Hillsdale87]

Sadly, so could I. I could also see them breaking the bank for Carr. It would be their way of “fixing” the Wentz debacle, which everyone knew would be a disaster. Well, everyone but the Washington front office, that is.

Isn't Washington exploring a sales? I can't imagine them making a desperate QB move right now

[WrongVerb]

Isn't Washington exploring a sales? I can't imagine them making a desperate QB move right now

Yes. Rumor is that Snyder is preparing to sell.

[RichRed]

Isn't Washington exploring a sales? I can't imagine them making a desperate QB move right now

Yes, I should’ve added the caveat that my scenario above happens only if Snyder remains the owner. I hope with all my might that he really is selling, but I could just as easily see him pulling the plug on that, purely out of spite.

[Rojo Rijo]

Anthony Richardson is not nearly as mobile and quick as Lamar

He's not, but what Richardson does have going for him is how athletic he is for his size. If Richardson gets to the secondary defenders will not be able to arm tackle or take bad angles on him.

He's also a much better mobile QB than he showed a lot of this season, where he was often hesitant to take off. Can't say I blame him, he knew he was declaring for the draft and knows his measurables will be off the charts. He wasnt going to risk injury after how much he dealt with it in 2021.

Don't get me wrong, he's a project and extremely raw as a passer. He needs to be drafted to a team that doesnt need him to start quite yet.

[Sea Ray]

He's not, but what Richardson does have going for him is how athletic he is for his size. If Richardson gets to the secondary defenders will not be able to arm tackle or take bad angles on him.

He's also a much better mobile QB than he showed a lot of this season, where he was often hesitant to take off. Can't say I blame him, he knew he was declaring for the draft and knows his measurables will be off the charts. He wasnt going to risk injury after how much he dealt with it in 2021.

Don't get me wrong, he's a project and extremely raw as a passer. He needs to be drafted to a team that doesnt need him to start quite yet.

He had his game of the year vs my Vols. He was something but is a project. His comp would be Jalen Hurts

[KoryMac5]

He had his game of the year vs my Vols. He was something but is a project. His comp would be Jalen Hurts

Not sure I see that comp...Hurts is smaller in stature and was much more accurate in college than Richardson. Maybe Joshua Dobbs with more upside...

[Hillsdale87]

Anthony Richardson is not nearly as mobile and quick as Lamar

Maybe not as shifty, but weren't people saying that he runs a 4.4 40?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Slyder]

And in the most Team oriented Male way possible... first question by Hamlin... Did we win? And every guy that played at any level... yea that's about right.

[goreds2]

https://gridirongames.com/nfl-weekly-schedule/

2022 NFL WEEK 18 SCHEDULE
Saturday, January 7 TIME (ET)
Kansas City
KC
(13-3-0)
@
(-8.5) (+8.5)
LV
(6-10-0)
Las Vegas
4:30 PM
ESPN

Tennessee
TEN
(7-9-0)
@
(+6.5) (-6.5)
JAX
(8-8-0)
Jacksonville
8:15 PM
ESPN

————————

Sunday, January 8 TIME (ET)
Tampa Bay
TB
(8-8-0)
@
(+4.5) (-4.5)
ATL
(6-10-0)
Atlanta
1:00 PM
FOX

New England
NE
(8-8-0)
@
(+7.5) (-7.5)
BUF
(12-3-0)
Buffalo
1:00 PM
CBS

Minnesota
MIN
(12-4-0)
@
(-6.5) (+6.5)
CHI
(3-13-0)
Chicago
1:00 PM
FOX

Baltimore
BAL
(10-6-0)
@
(+9.5) (-9.5)
CIN
(11-4-0)
Cincinnati
1:00 PM
CBS

Houston
HOU
(2-13-1)
@
(+2.5) (-2.5)
IND
(4-11-1)
Indianapolis
1:00 PM
CBS

NY Jets
NYJ
(7-9-0)
@
(+3.5) (-3.5)
MIA
(8-8-0)
Miami
1:00 PM
FOX

Carolina
CAR
(6-10-0)
@
(+3.5) (-3.5)
NO
(7-9-0)
New Orleans
1:00 PM
FOX

Cleveland
CLE
(7-9-0)
@
(+2.5) (-2.5)
PIT
(8-8-0)
Pittsburgh
1:00 PM
CBS

LA Chargers
LAC
(10-6-0)
@
(+3.5) (-3.5)
DEN
(4-12-0)
Denver
4:25 PM
CBS

NY Giants
NYG
(9-6-1)
@
(+14.5) (-14.5)
PHI
(13-3-0)
Philadelphia
4:25 PM
CBS

Arizona
ARI
(4-12-0)
@
(+14.5) (-14.5)
SF
(12-4-0)
San Francisco
4:25 PM
FOX

LA Rams
LAR
(5-11-0)
@
(+6.5) (-6.5)
SEA
(8-8-0)
Seattle
4:25 PM
FOX

Dallas
DAL
(12-4-0)
@
(-7.5) (+7.5)
WAS
(7-8-1)
Washington
4:25 PM
FOX

Detroit
DET
(8-8-0)
@
(+5.5) (-5.5)
GB
(8-8-0)
Green Bay
8:20 PM
NBC

[The Operator]

Titans just got away with a blatant late throw down after the whistle had been blown.


I hope the Jags dismantle them tonight.

[Stray]

Great atmosphere in Jacksonville tonight. It's not the playoffs yet but this may as well be. Love it.

[goreds2]

Steelers to honor Bills S Damar Hamlin on Sunday


According to Pittsburgh Steelers beat writer Gerry Dulac, the Pittsburgh Steelers will honor injured Buffalo Bills safety Damar Hamlin on Sunday. The Steelers will have the No. 3 on each 30-yard marker on the field painted blue and red for Hamlin.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/steelers-honor-bills-damar-hamlin-191757668.html

[The Operator]

WOW what a turn of events in Jacksonville…

[Roy Tucker]

Can’t say I agree with that Tennessee fumble call.

[Stray]

Looked out.

[Roy Tucker]

Looked out.

I suppose. If that’s Tom Brady, it’s an incomplete pass. If it’s a 6th round QB in his second start, it’s a fumble.

[The Operator]

The Tennessee Titans are the only team I can remember getting pissy and almost starting a fight when the other team is in victory formation. It’s the exact same thing they did against The Bengals.

Pretty disappointing considering they’re a team coaches by Mike Vrabel.

[Stray]

The Tennessee Titans are the only team I can remember getting pissy and almost starting a fight when the other team is in victory formation. It’s the exact same thing they did against The Bengals.

Pretty disappointing considering they’re a team coaches by Mike Vrabel.

They do it because they're coached by Vrabel. He's dirty as hell man.

[The Operator]

They do it because they're coached by Vrabel. He's dirty as hell man.

Was he generally considered dirty? Could be my Ohio State bias creeping in but I don’t remember him having that reputation. Been a while since his playing days, though.

[goreds2]

I suppose. If that’s Tom Brady, it’s an incomplete pass. If it’s a 6th round QB in his second start, it’s a fumble.


—————-



"I felt like my arm was going forward," Dobbs said. "When you throw the ball and the ball goes forward after the guy hits you — I'm a physics guy. It's pretty simple that it's going forward. But as I said, I haven't seen the play. So I don't know when he hit me in the act of throwing. When you're on the road, they do a great job of not showing replays of big plays. I'll check it out on film and see, but that was definitely a tough one."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tennessee-titans-qb-joshua-dobbs-053739103.html

[texasdave]

In my honest, but worthless, opinion, that was no fumble. Tennessee got jobbed.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ball was loose going back and he pushed it forward. 100% fumble.

[757690]

Bills run the opening kickoff for a touchdown. If this was scripted in a movie, it would be cut for being too unbelievable.

[WrongVerb]

Miami winning, eliminating the Steelers, would make me so giddy.

[SteelSD]

Miami winning, eliminating the Steelers, would make me so giddy.

Miami did win, on the back of a completely phantom horsecollar tackle call against the Jets. Tomlin still hasn't had a losing season, but frankly, I wish he had. Pittsburgh would have been doomed to a bad first round exit (again), and now have a medicore first rounder to show for the season. At least a big thanks to the Texans for winning- which handed the Steelers the first pick in the second round for in exchange for Chase Claypool, who posted 140 yards...after the trade...over seven games for the Bears. Man, did that trade go badly for Chicago...ewwww.

[RiverRat13]

Miami did win, on the back of a completely phantom horsecollar tackle call against the Jets. Tomlin still hasn't had a losing season, but frankly, I wish he had. Pittsburgh would have been doomed to a bad first round exit (again), and now have a medicore first rounder to show for the season. At least a big thanks to the Texans for winning- which handed the Steelers the first pick in the second round for in exchange for Chase Claypool, who posted 140 yards...after the trade...over seven games for the Bears. Man, did that trade go badly for Chicago...ewwww.

Great trade for the Steelers.

Why did you want them to have a losing season?

[RiverRat13]

The Bears getting the 1st pick makes the off-season more interesting.

[SteelSD]

Great trade for the Steelers.

Why did you want them to have a losing season?

Because they clearly need significant help at multiple positions and weren't going anywhere had they made the playoffs. Buffalo already slaughtered them once, I don't need to see that again. Pittsburgh already had a chance to beat all of the four teams playing in the other games they cared about- Buffalo, New England, Miami, and the Jets- but they didn't. Add in that they should have lost both games against the Bengals, and lost one of two against Jackson-less Ravens squads, and you have a team that's clearly not competitive against top AFC teams; one that finished with a record well above their actual talent level (both this and last year). I'm just not down for a continued string of "Well, we can sometimes beat the worst playoff teams if everything goes right!"

Finishing poorly would have allowed them to grab, potentially, the top player at a number of need positions or even trade down to acquire desperately-needed additional picks. They need to get better, big time, on the O-Line, and need young talent on the defensive side of the ball (ILB is a mess, CB is a patchwork group, and the D-Line is aging rapidly).

[Sea Ray]

As a general rule, the worst place to finish an NFL season is over .500 and just short of the playoffs. That's a big picture statement. However from a fan's standpoint there is value in this 2022 Steeler season. They held their fan's interest for 18 weeks. That's something. As a Bengal fan, I know a lot of seasons where my team was pretty much out of it by the first week of October. Man did those (Dave Shula) days suck

[Sea Ray]

Detroit Lions not playing well tonight so far. Goff particularly looks as wobbly as his passes. FG kicking is also lacking

[Betterread]

Detroit Lions not playing well tonight so far. Goff particularly looks as wobbly as his passes. FG kicking is also lacking

I’d take this version of Goff over Trevor Lawrence.

[The Operator]

Well, The Packers have been eliminated. Dan Campbell has some massive cojones with some of the calls they made on that last drive. Wow.

Rodgers made several really bad throws on the last Packers possession. Can’t wait to hear how it’s all the fault of the reveivers.

[Roy Tucker]

Lions knock the Packers out of the playoffs and win 20-16.

SNF is making this a Rodgers drama.

[The Operator]

SNF is making this a Rodgers drama.

Boy are they ever… barf.

[Sea Ray]

I don't know how much Rodgers even cares that he lost. It's like he's fine heading into the offseason and enjoying his life as a multimillionaire celebrity. I'm not so sure how much he even cares about football at this point

[The Operator]

I don't know how much Rodgers even cares that he lost. It's like he's fine heading into the offseason and enjoying his life as a multimillionaire celebrity. I'm not so sure how much he even cares about football at this point

He’s been pretty aloof and hard to read for a long time, so yea, I don’t know.

Don’t the Packers take a huge cap hit even if he were to retire or they traded him? I’m helpless with figuring out cap stuff but I feel like I read that somewhere, possibly on here.

[KoryMac5]

I’d take this version of Goff over Trevor Lawrence.

Goff who has had a really good year is probably at his ceiling though where I feel like Lawrence is scratching the surface of his potential with his new coaching staff.

[dubc47834]

Well, The Packers have been eliminated. Dan Campbell has some massive cojones with some of the calls they made on that last drive. Wow.

Rodgers made several really bad throws on the last Packers possession. Can’t wait to hear how it’s all the fault of the reveivers.

I agree some of those play calls took some massive cojones...lol...but not as much knowing that its not going to affect whether you go to the playoffs as much. What I really liked about him was, stating during the in game interview "we don't want them going to the playoffs". Then ESPN asked the Packers coach about it in the next interview. Even in the media sessions leading up to the game he stated either we are going or they aren't. I wish the Colts would get a guy like him.

[The Operator]

I agree some of those play calls took some massive cojones...lol...but not as much knowing that its not going to affect whether you go to the playoffs as much. What I really liked about him was, stating during the in game interview "we don't want them going to the playoffs". Then ESPN asked the Packers coach about it in the next interview. Even in the media sessions leading up to the game he stated either we are going or they aren't. I wish the Colts would get a guy like him.

Yea, you can tell he’s a guy who wakes up eating shards of glass. Even last year when The Lions were awful you could just tell there was something different in Detroit. Glad to see them turning that ship around.

[Sea Ray]

He’s been pretty aloof and hard to read for a long time, so yea, I don’t know.

Don’t the Packers take a huge cap hit even if he were to retire or they traded him? I’m helpless with figuring out cap stuff but I feel like I read that somewhere, possibly on here.

You are correct. Unless something is done, the Packers are vulnerable to a dead cap hit of $100mill next year

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745/

My first impulse tells me, this leans towards the only workable option is another team trading for him and taking on a lot of that contract

[BuckeyeRed27]

He’s been pretty aloof and hard to read for a long time, so yea, I don’t know.

Don’t the Packers take a huge cap hit even if he were to retire or they traded him? I’m helpless with figuring out cap stuff but I feel like I read that somewhere, possibly on here.

It’s $40M either next season or split over 2 seasons depending if he retired before or after June 1. He’s also guaranteed $60M if he plays next year. I bet he finds a way to play.

[Sea Ray]

Rodgers would walk away from $59.5 million if he retires this offseason. That’s a significant amount of money, and it would have an impact on the salary cap. However, the Packers would still have to pay $40.3 million in dead cap.

In any situation, whether Rodgers stays in Green Bay, retires, or is traded, the Packers will have a big cap hit in 2023, and likely 2024, too.

They knew that when they gave Rodgers a contract extension in the offseason. They took the risk to push for another Super Bowl.
https://lombardiave.com/2022/12/10/packers-aaron-rodgers-cap-hit-2023/

Rodgers will likely talk retirement in this offseason but I can't see him walking away from $60 million guaranteed. So this is going to be a complicated situation

[KoryMac5]

I don't think Rodgers is tradeable with that contract but I didn't think Russ had huge value and was wrong there...

The problem with Rodgers is his legs are gone and his fastball has lost a few ticks off of it. However their defense is really strong...if they draft well (wide receiver and O line help) I could see them making a run.

[kaldaniels]

Well, The Packers have been eliminated. Dan Campbell has some massive cojones with some of the calls they made on that last drive. Wow.

Rodgers made several really bad throws on the last Packers possession. Can’t wait to hear how it’s all the fault of the reveivers.

I love Dan Campbell but with those calls in the 4th quarter he did have the luxury of knowing he was simply playing the spoiler role. Why not have a little fun? If his team had the playoffs on the line as well it probably would have been managed differently.

[goreds2]

Super Wild Card Weekend
Saturday, Jan. 14

(7) Seahawks at (2) 49ers, 4:30 p.m. ET (Fox)
(5) Chargers at (4) Jaguars, 8:15 p.m. ET (NBC)


Sunday, Jan. 15

(7) Dolphins at (2) Bills, 1 p.m. ET (CBS)
(6) Giants at (3) Vikings, 4:30 p.m. ET (Fox)
(6) Ravens at (3) Bengals, 8:15 p.m. ET (NBC)


Monday, Jan. 16

(5) Cowboys at (4) Buccaneers, 8:15 p.m. ET (ESPN/ABC)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-playoff-schedule-bracket-dates-times-and-tv-for-every-round-of-the-afc-and-nfc-postseason/

[RichRed]

Just dropping in to say how refreshing it will be to have playoffs without Rodgers, Belichick, or the Steelers. Take out Dallas and Brady, and it would be almost perfect. :)

[Sea Ray]

The NFL's system for parity does work. When you draft high year after year you do accumulate talent and you get a window to compete. We're seeing bottom feeders like Jax, Detroit, Cleveland, Arizona and yes, our Bengals competing. The question is, will it be short lived or will these franchises take long term advantage? Arizona was certainly short term. Cleveland could go either way but they're toying with blowing it. Remains to be seen with Detroit and Jacksonville. I'd like to think the Bengals have turned the corner for the long haul but we'll see.

[WVRed]

I don't think Rodgers is tradeable with that contract but I didn't think Russ had huge value and was wrong there...

The problem with Rodgers is his legs are gone and his fastball has lost a few ticks off of it. However their defense is really strong...if they draft well (wide receiver and O line help) I could see them making a run.

Rodgers is in the Roethlisberger stage of his career.

[Chip R]

In an effort to keep the Bears downtown, the city of Chicago has unveiled a mockup of a $2.2B revamped Soldier Filed with a glass dome. This is in response to the Bears buying property in Arlington Heights where they want to build a $5B stadium district.

https://frontofficesports.com/chicago-unveils-2-2b-domed-soldier-field-plan-to-keep-bears/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=threaded-comments

[Sea Ray]

In an effort to keep the Bears downtown, the city of Chicago has unveiled a mockup of a $2.2B revamped Soldier Filed with a glass dome. This is in response to the Bears buying property in Arlington Heights where they want to build a $5B stadium district.

https://frontofficesports.com/chicago-unveils-2-2b-domed-soldier-field-plan-to-keep-bears/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=threaded-comments

That looks beautiful but don't you think the Bears should play outdoors? Something doesn't seem right about that

[Tuff Nut]

Just saw where KC signed John Ross to a Futures/ Reserve contract... Didn't know he still wasn't a Bengal....I know he is fast, so what's his downfall?...stonehands? attitude?

[Sea Ray]

Just saw where KC signed John Ross to a Futures/ Reserve contract... Didn't know he still wasn't a Bengal....I know he is fast, so what's his downfall?...stonehands? attitude?

In a nutshell he's an athlete but he's not a football player. You can't just take a track star, put him in a football locker room and translate those skills into the game of football. He's not durable and actually playing the game has shown to be a challenge for him. Whether Andy Reid can do anything with him, we'll see but I wouldn't get my hopes up

[Tuff Nut]

In a nutshell he's an athlete but he's not a football player. You can't just take a track star, put him in a football locker room and translate those skills into the game of football. He's not durable and actually playing the game has shown to be a challenge for him. Whether Andy Reid can do anything with him, we'll see but I wouldn't get my hopes up

Yeah, it is just a futures contract, so probably much a do about nothing..thanks for the report

[Betterread]

The NFL's system for parity does work. When you draft high year after year you do accumulate talent and you get a window to compete. We're seeing bottom feeders like Jax, Detroit, Cleveland, Arizona and yes, our Bengals competing. The question is, will it be short lived or will these franchises take long term advantage? Arizona was certainly short term. Cleveland could go either way but they're toying with blowing it. Remains to be seen with Detroit and Jacksonville. I'd like to think the Bengals have turned the corner for the long haul but we'll see.
Jacksonville and Detroit still aren’t very good. They lack playmakers. They’ve moved up from complete garbage to being competitive, mostly through defensive improvement. They can hang around against good teams, and if those teams screw up, they know how to take advantage.

[Kingspoint]

The NFL's system for parity does work. When you draft high year after year you do accumulate talent and you get a window to compete. We're seeing bottom feeders like Jax, Detroit, Cleveland, Arizona and yes, our Bengals competing. The question is, will it be short lived or will these franchises take long term advantage? Arizona was certainly short term. Cleveland could go either way but they're toying with blowing it. Remains to be seen with Detroit and Jacksonville. I'd like to think the Bengals have turned the corner for the long haul but we'll see.

NFL doesn't have a system for parity. Not intentionally, anyway.

NFL parity began when Offensive Lines stopped playing together for several seasons. When a team can get an Offensive Line to develop continuity through time together, and it takes several years together, then a team can establish consistency with their Offense and dominate opposing teams from year to year. That all gets thrown out the window because of the current free agency system, where a team can't afford to keep an O-Line that's good together for more than two seasons. No team can hold it together for three seasons because of Free Agency costs for quality O-Linemen. You can keep two, maybe three (at the cost of going cheap at some other position that weakens the team), but two or three O-Linemen will constantly be changing and that's going to make it so that there are never any elite teams again. One team will get hot for a season because they went all-in, or they managed to survive the long season injury-free (another reason for parity is that there are always missing key players every week for every team), but they'll soon fade like the Rams did this season.

This is why I love the two FA signings of Cappa and Karras. We bought quality with upside of Linemen who fit our schemes at mid-level prices for the positions. Even the RT acquisition had a lot of upside (and it showed in the run-blocking) while the cost stayed at a mid-level price. We are still in position for our Offensive Line to pay for a quality LT. Williams may be best used at RT, but his play is pricing him off of the team as he'll want more than he's worth, and he's not worth more than he is. He doesn't seem to have that kind of upside anymore.

[Kingspoint]

Super Wild Card Weekend
Saturday, Jan. 14

(7) Seahawks at (2) 49ers, 4:30 p.m. ET (Fox)
(5) Chargers at (4) Jaguars, 8:15 p.m. ET (NBC)


Sunday, Jan. 15

(7) Dolphins at (2) Bills, 1 p.m. ET (CBS)
(6) Giants at (3) Vikings, 4:30 p.m. ET (Fox)
(6) Ravens at (3) Bengals, 8:15 p.m. ET (NBC)


Monday, Jan. 16

(5) Cowboys at (4) Buccaneers, 8:15 p.m. ET (ESPN/ABC)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2023-nfl-playoff-schedule-bracket-dates-times-and-tv-for-every-round-of-the-afc-and-nfc-postseason/

So, Tom Brady's disastrous (3 Int's, 2 Fumbles, 7 sacks and 0 TD's) final appearance in the NFL gets to be displayed to everyone on Monday Night Football.

Final:

Dallas Cowboys 38

Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3

Micah Parsons: 1 INT, 2 Forced Fumbles, 4 Sacks, 1 Defensive TD.

[Kingspoint]

That looks beautiful but don't you think the Bears should play outdoors? Something doesn't seem right about that

Thought the same thing when the Vikings moved indoors a long time ago, and when Detroit moved indoors a long time ago.

What used to be the Black-and-Blue Division is now the Powder Puff Divisioin.

Yes, yes, the AFC North has also been referred to the Black-and-Blue Division, but the NFC Central was long before there was an AFC North.

[Kingspoint]

Miami did win, on the back of a completely phantom horsecollar tackle call against the Jets. Tomlin still hasn't had a losing season, but frankly, I wish he had. Pittsburgh would have been doomed to a bad first round exit (again), and now have a medicore first rounder to show for the season. At least a big thanks to the Texans for winning- which handed the Steelers the first pick in the second round for in exchange for Chase Claypool, who posted 140 yards...after the trade...over seven games for the Bears. Man, did that trade go badly for Chicago...ewwww.

With that pick, they at least won't be tempted to go QB in the 1st Round.

[Kingspoint]

I don't know how much Rodgers even cares that he lost. It's like he's fine heading into the offseason and enjoying his life as a multimillionaire celebrity. I'm not so sure how much he even cares about football at this point

His level of interest equals the Packers' level of interest at getting him O-Linemen and Receivers over his career.

[Kingspoint]

Goff who has had a really good year is probably at his ceiling though where I feel like Lawrence is scratching the surface of his potential with his new coaching staff.

Goff has been with this coaching staff for only two years, while their G.M. was also the same person in the War Room who recommended that the Rams take Goff at the time. The Lions are committed to Goff and see him differently than the RAMS did. I'm not saying that Goff will justify when he was taken in the draft, as many of his problems are uncorrectable because they are in the IQ department, like Carson Wentz, but Goff looks like he certainly has a much higher floor now.

- - - Updated - - -


Yea, you can tell he’s a guy who wakes up eating shards of glass. Even last year when The Lions were awful you could just tell there was something different in Detroit. Glad to see them turning that ship around.

You mean, like Ted Karras?

[Sea Ray]

NFL doesn't have a system for parity. Not intentionally, anyway.

NFL parity began when Offensive Lines stopped playing together for several seasons. When a team can get an Offensive Line to develop continuity through time together, and it takes several years together, then a team can establish consistency with their Offense and dominate opposing teams from year to year. That all gets thrown out the window because of the current free agency system, where a team can't afford to keep an O-Line that's good together for more than two seasons. No team can hold it together for three seasons because of Free Agency costs for quality O-Linemen. You can keep two, maybe three (at the cost of going cheap at some other position that weakens the team), but two or three O-Linemen will constantly be changing and that's going to make it so that there are never any elite teams again. One team will get hot for a season because they went all-in, or they managed to survive the long season injury-free (another reason for parity is that there are always missing key players every week for every team), but they'll soon fade like the Rams did this season.

This is why I love the two FA signings of Cappa and Karras. We bought quality with upside of Linemen who fit our schemes at mid-level prices for the positions. Even the RT acquisition had a lot of upside (and it showed in the run-blocking) while the cost stayed at a mid-level price. We are still in position for our Offensive Line to pay for a quality LT. Williams may be best used at RT, but his play is pricing him off of the team as he'll want more than he's worth, and he's not worth more than he is. He doesn't seem to have that kind of upside anymore.

The NFL system has made teams like Jax, Detroit and Cin competitive because it's landed then players like Lawrence, Sewell/Hutchinson and Burrow/Chase. Without those top picks those teams would still be bottom feeders

[Kingspoint]

The NFL system has made teams like Jax, Detroit and Cin competitive because it's landed then players like Lawrence, Sewell/Hutchinson and Burrow/Chase. Without those top picks those teams would still be bottom feeders

I don't think the Bengals would be. They changed how they did things when the children took over. These methods would work whether they had Burrow or Chase or picked someone else. Their Free Agency efforts the last two seasons have been A+, while their drafts have been very good. Look at where they got Higgins in the draft.

[traderumor]

And for the greedy owners' 17-soon-to-be-18 game season, 4 pre-season games, and if they make the playoffs, a possible four more games, for a total of 26 possible games. No human body, no matter how gifted it may be, was ever meant to hold up to that type of punishment. Even professional armies used to always quit for six months during the colder season.

There's definitely a lot of truth to the Master-Slave storyline that has been described by many players. Run them into the ground until they drop, who cares if they die (head injuries that they tried to hide for 20 years), and there's always a new ship of slaves arriving from the NCAA every season, who were taught well by the Universities how to behave like a slave and make money for the Owners while getting nothing in return comparatively.

There is no master-slave analogy whatsoever. Employment is at will, the risks of the job are well known, and the pay is really, really good. It does a great disservice to any form of forced labor to perpetuate this crass analogy.

[Sea Ray]

I don't think the Bengals would be. They changed how they did things when the children took over. These methods would work whether they had Burrow or Chase or picked someone else. Their Free Agency efforts the last two seasons have been A+, while their drafts have been very good. Look at where they got Higgins in the draft.

Even with Burrow we were 3-3 in the division. Without him (instead go with Andy Dalton) we'd be competing with the Browns for 4th in the division IMO

[Kingspoint]

There is no master-slave analogy whatsoever. Employment is at will, the risks of the job are well known, and the pay is really, really good. It does a great disservice to any form of forced labor to perpetuate this crass analogy.

In what world is it an employment at will. You are not free to leave one University for another without going through a million hoops and losing precious time. You aren't free to sell your services to the highest bidder from the colleges, nor do you get paid what you are worth by any of the colleges.

You certainly have no say, whatsoever, where you get to work, or who you get to work for, or the length of time you get to work for them at the "professional" level. It's definitely a master-slave society at both the college and nfl levels, where the masters decide where you work, where you can't work, how much you get paid, and that they'll decide who they want to sell you to when you are of no use to them anymore.

[Kingspoint]

Even with Burrow we were 3-3 in the division. Without him (instead go with Andy Dalton) we'd be competing with the Browns for 4th in the division IMO

Every single person agrees that Burrow pushed the franchise years ahead of schedule because of his unique abilities. But, the Bengals would still be on an upward projectory since the children took over, which was just three years ago. In the NFC we would be making the playoffs, but in the AFC, it would take more, and we would definitely need a much better Offensive Line if we didn't have a Top-10 QB.