2022/2023 Ohio State Mens Basketball Thread

[goreds2]

Justice Sueing, Brice Sensabaugh lead Ohio State men's basketball past Robert Morris 91-53 in season opener

The Buckeyes are 1-0 for the 19th straight season, including the last six under coach Chris Holtmann.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/college/osu/justice-sueing-brice-sensabaugh-ohio-state-mens-basketball-beat-robert-morris-91-53-season-opener/95-0a0f381e-4f3a-4edf-8c52-155f55aa4c53

[goreds2]

Next games:

Wed, 11/16
vs
EIU
7:00 PM
BTN


Mon, 11/21
vs
19 SDSU *
9:00 PM
ESPN2

Wed, 11/30
@
7 DUKE
7:15 PM
ESPN

[goreds2]

Next games:



Wed, 11/30
@
7 DUKE
7:15 PM
ESPN

Buckeyes hanging in. Down by 11 with 14:41 remaining.

[goreds2]

No. 23 Ohio State vs. UNC | 3 p.m. ET | New York City
 
Watch the FREE LIVESTREAM and tune into today's CBS Sports Classic matchup between No. 23 Ohio State and 2022 National Championship runner-up UNC at 3 p.m. ET from Madison Square Garden.

https://www.cbssports.com/watch/college-basketball

[BuckeyeRed27]

This team is pretty fun. They don’t have any A players but they have like seven B guys.

[goreds2]

No. 23 Ohio State vs. UNC | 3 p.m. ET | New York City
 
Watch the FREE LIVESTREAM and tune into today's CBS Sports Classic matchup between No. 23 Ohio State and 2022 National Championship runner-up UNC at 3 p.m. ET from Madison Square Garden.

https://www.cbssports.com/watch/college-basketball

Game gong to overtime.

[oregonred]

This team is pretty fun. They don’t have any A players but they have like seven B guys.

They do now... Brice Sensabaugh has turned into a beast and manchild. He's a Zion Williamson type to watch at times. OSU destroyed a decent NW team in Evanston last night.

Home vs. #1 Purdue on Thursday and OSU has a real shot in this one with Sueing, Brice and Zed Key.

[goreds2]

Bucks now playing #1 Purdue in FS1.

[RiverRat13]

Bucks now playing #1 Purdue in FS1.

And everyone is now hurt

[RiverRat13]

I’m not a big uniform guy, but love the Jimmy Jackson era grays.

[Mitri]

These kids (plus a healthy Sueing) are a lot of fun.

Should be an elite team in the coming years.

[RiverRat13]

Couldn’t execute any worse than OSU did in the last 40 seconds.

[Mitri]

Couldn’t execute any worse than OSU did in the last 40 seconds.

Guessing you haven’t been watching the Knicks play lately lol.

But yeah, the Buckeyes blew another one. The UNC game could’ve been theirs as well.

[goreds2]

Buckeyes played a great game versus a number one team. Fun game to watch.

[goreds2]

Buckeyes break a 5 game losing skid today by defeating Iowa.


Side note: Lady Buckeyes ranked number 2 in the country. 19-0, 8-0 B1G

[RedTeamGo!]

Past time to move on from Holtmann. He can recruit but he can’t coach. At all.

[bucksfan2]

I give Holtman one more year. This was always going to be a rough season with inconsistent play. I still do think they get it together and start ripping off wins, there is a lot of talent on the roster. Holtman also has one heck of a recruiting class coming in.

[BuckeyeRed27]

That’s what frustrating about this team is there is no consistency to the problems. Sometimes they can’t play defense. Sometimes they can’t shoot. Sometimes they make stupid mistakes. Sometimes the rotation is bad.

[RedTeamGo!]

I give Holtman one more year. This was always going to be a rough season with inconsistent play. I still do think they get it together and start ripping off wins, there is a lot of talent on the roster. Holtman also has one heck of a recruiting class coming in.

He had one heck of a class coming into this season. Come on man, they are basically a .500 team and are dwelling in the basement of the big ten. Have losses to the likes of Minnesota and Nebraska. The team stinks, which is inexcusable because they have Brice Sensabaugh and more than enough talent to support him. Also, the fundamentals are horrendous. Awful boxing out, terrible defensive rebounding. I don't know if you watched last night but the cherry on top was the inbound pass where the player for ILL bounced it off the back of the OSU player and got an easy layup. Why in the world did Holtmann tell his players to double a player near the baseline on an inbounds pass? That is just terrible coaching and horrible fundamentals. When you have talent and the fundamentals are extremely poor you've got yourself a coaching problem.

It is year 6. What, exactly, has he accomplished? Why can't OSU do better than him?

[traderumor]

He has done a good job of getting high end talent, but his rotation choices and McBasketball playbook is just not cutting it. In his years, I still have not figured out any philosophy on either ejd of the court. There is no system, they run a perimeter weave, high low ball screens, and...., welp that's about it. McNeil is a turnover machine and gets beat continually on D, yet he logs top minutes. He has an upcoming freshman point guard and he gives the minutes to Likelie, who is an offensive liability, cannot shoot, as is Sueing. Just another hot mess that looked so promising in December.

When you lose alot of close games, it usually falls on preparation and coaching.

[RiverRat13]

OSU is 21st by Kenpom. They’ve been atrocious in close games and I don’t blame anyone who points the finger at the coach. They should not be 11-9. I think he gets one more year, but they need to win big next year.

[kaldaniels]

OSU is 21st by Kenpom. They’ve been atrocious in close games and I don’t blame anyone who points the finger at the coach. They should not be 11-9. I think he gets one more year, but they need to win big next year.

I think he’s gone. Maybe a postseason run would save him but how likely is that?

[Assembly Hall]

I think he’s gone.

And that Notre Dame job just sitting there.

[RedTeamGo!]

I think he’s gone. Maybe a postseason run would save him but how likely is that?

I do not see how they can make the tourney at this point. By mid February they will likely be under .500

[bucksfan2]

OSU is 21st by Kenpom. They’ve been atrocious in close games and I don’t blame anyone who points the finger at the coach. They should not be 11-9. I think he gets one more year, but they need to win big next year.

I haven't watched as much of this team as I have in past years. The whole conversation leading into this season was to expect the up and down play throughout the season. They are definitely better than 11-9, and have played terrible in close games, but I don't know if that wasn't to be expected.

The rotations seem off this year. And this is the second season in which Zed Key completely loses his confidence and becomes a drag on the team. Sueing didn't play well last night and really isn't a guy you go to when you are in need of a bucket. They are a team who need to play up and down and get into a high scoring contest, but most of the B1G is content to slow the game down.

I think the transfers have been questionable over Holtman's tenure. Likekele at best is a roll player, McNeil could be useful as a shooter, and I don't quite get what kind of roll Holden is playing.

At this point I hope Holtman goes young, plays the young guys over their veteran counterparts, and builds towards next season.

[RedTeamGo!]

I haven't watched as much of this team as I have in past years. The whole conversation leading into this season was to expect the up and down play throughout the season. They are definitely better than 11-9, and have played terrible in close games, but I don't know if that wasn't to be expected.

The rotations seem off this year. And this is the second season in which Zed Key completely loses his confidence and becomes a drag on the team. Sueing didn't play well last night and really isn't a guy you go to when you are in need of a bucket. They are a team who need to play up and down and get into a high scoring contest, but most of the B1G is content to slow the game down.

I think the transfers have been questionable over Holtman's tenure. Likekele at best is a roll player, McNeil could be useful as a shooter, and I don't quite get what kind of roll Holden is playing.

At this point I hope Holtman goes young, plays the young guys over their veteran counterparts, and builds towards next season.

They are basically playing the young guys at this point. It isn't really making much of a difference. The only reason they are not something like 5-15 is because of Sensabaugh and he is as good as gone after this year.

[Assembly Hall]

They are basically playing the young guys at this point. It isn't really making much of a difference. The only reason they are not something like 5-15 is because of Sensabaugh and he is as good as gone after this year.

As an "independent" observer I view things a tad differently. I think Brice is part of the Buckeye's problem. To me, he plays with a "me first" attitude. Great talent but he messes up team chemistry.

[RedTeamGo!]

As an "independent" observer I view things a tad differently. I think Brice is part of the Buckeye's problem. To me, he plays with a "me first" attitude. Great talent but he messes up team chemistry.

Well, that is certainly a take.

[Assembly Hall]

Well, that is certainly a take.

If the Bucks are to right the ship I feel Holtmann needs to "lasso" Sensabaugh in. Get him to play team ball.

[goreds2]

Sat, 1/28

OSU
@
IU
8:00 PM
FOX

[RedTeamGo!]

Chris Holtmann has got to go, hey hey ho ho

[traderumor]

man, they just fell apart, were hanging tough then just got abused for 3 minutes

[traderumor]

best I can tell the conference swoon is a talent issue. Holtmann has not a clue on how to win in this conference. Lack of talent and strength in the middle and has yet to recruit a shooting guard. You are not going to win in this league without those ingredients.

[traderumor]

3 minutes left down 17 and his lone offensive threat is on the bench

[RedTeamGo!]

best I can tell the conference swoon is a talent issue. Holtmann has not a clue on how to win in this conference. Lack of talent and strength in the middle and has yet to recruit a shooting guard. You are not going to win in this league without those ingredients.

They have one of the best recruiting classes in the country year in and year out. It’s not the talent.

[Assembly Hall]

The Buckeyes are broke. You guys can blame it on Holtmann but I saw a helluva lot of "hero" ball last night. Sensabaugh and Sueing doing nothing but going 1 on 1. If that is by design then fire the coach.

[traderumor]

They have one of the best recruiting classes in the country year in and year out. It’s not the talent.

Sorry, but Zed Key is not a championship man in the middle, even when healthy. They have no power forwards, ever. They have not had a shooting guard since Jon Diebler. Those rankings are meaningless for the actual construction of a team, they are based on individual high school accomplishments. Not to mention a highly ranked single recruit can make a bball recruiting class "highly ranked." The talent on the team of basketball players at each position on the floor is deficient.

[RedTeamGo!]

The Buckeyes are broke. You guys can blame it on Holtmann but I saw a helluva lot of "hero" ball last night. Sensabaugh and Sueing doing nothing but going 1 on 1. If that is by design then fire the coach.

It’s absolutely on the coaching. OSU hasn’t ran an actual offense in the past 6 years.

[Assembly Hall]

It’s absolutely on the coaching. OSU hasn’t ran an actual offense in the past 6 years.

I dunno. Seems to me that a couple of the Bucks just want to get theirs at the expense of the team. But you guys watch them far more than what I do.

[traderumor]

It’s absolutely on the coaching. OSU hasn’t ran an actual offense in the past 6 years.

and the coach recruits the talent, he doesn't have a GM. I agree he has X's and O's deficiencies, but he also has no discernable style of play that creates a player profile that will be successful in his system, because there is no system, on either end of the floor. It is nondescript McBasketball.

[RedTeamGo!]

and the coach recruits the talent, he doesn't have a GM. I agree he has X's and O's deficiencies, but he also has no discernable style of play that creates a player profile that will be successful in his system, because there is no system, on either end of the floor. It is nondescript McBasketball.

Agreed completely. Hence, he needs to go.

[RedTeamGo!]

Another L. The Buckeyes are now 11-11. Worst I’ve seen the team since I guess the 90s? How is Holtmann still employed?

[traderumor]

I still think the disconnect is that Holtmann does not have a Big 10 roster. They get pushed around, cannot defend, and the opponent knows their vanilla offense as well as they do.

Yet Gene Smith just called him the coach of the future.

This season, the depth of the collapse is a bit baffling though. The only flash point is Key's injury, because up until that point, they were a stupid play away from beating Purdue. I went to the Rutgers game and this was a very good team at that point in the season. Now, they just look bad, especially on D.

[goreds2]

Currently playing Michigan on CBS.

[kaldaniels]

Not even a question if Holtmann is gone anymore.

[Assembly Hall]

Currently playing Michigan on CBS.

The Bucks had no answer for Dickinson.

[RedTeamGo!]

Because they are terrible and Zed Key is the smallest big man in the country. Holtmann needs to go. Immediately.

[Assembly Hall]

Because they are terrible and Zed Key is the smallest big man in the country. Holtmann needs to go. Immediately.

Chris Beard is available.

[westofyou]

The Bucks had no answer for Dickinson.

When he can control the paint and Howard and Bufkin are on that's this UM team at their best. OSU is missing something that they usually have, a scrappy gym rat feel usually is what I sense from them. Could just be an off year, I'll let the ones who see them more be the judge of that

[bucksfan2]

When he can control the paint and Howard and Bufkin are on that's this UM team at their best. OSU is missing something that they usually have, a scrappy gym rat feel usually is what I sense from them. Could just be an off year, I'll let the ones who see them more be the judge of that

Can't really comment on UM, haven't seen the play other than bits and pieces of yesterday's game. Looks like a lost season on their end as well.

IMO its a roster in transition. I wonder if Key's shoulder injury is the biggest problem, as he struggled down the stretch last season. They tried to get a scrappy gym rat guy, but Likeilee has been a disappointment. Sueing is a slasher who is best used as your 3rd scorer, not a guy you want to count on each and every night.

They started off the season playing pretty good basketball, but sure have stumbled once they it B1G play. They don't have a true big in the last conference on earth where you need one. Okpara probably is that, but isn't strong enough at this point. Sensabaugh may very well be a one and done guy, but his defense is pretty terrible at this point. Every B1G team they play is going to slow the game down, make them earn it on offense, and OSU just can't do that. And at this point in the season, they can't guard an entire possession either.

I may be on of the few, but I give Holtmann one more year. I like the group of young guys this team has, and like whats coming in. But we shall see, Holtmann should be counting his lucky stars that OSU is football obsessed and people really don't tune into basketball until March.

[Revering4Blue]

Can't really comment on UM, haven't seen the play other than bits and pieces of yesterday's game. Looks like a lost season on their end as well.

IMO its a roster in transition. I wonder if Key's shoulder injury is the biggest problem, as he struggled down the stretch last season. They tried to get a scrappy gym rat guy, but Likeilee has been a disappointment. Sueing is a slasher who is best used as your 3rd scorer, not a guy you want to count on each and every night.

They started off the season playing pretty good basketball, but sure have stumbled once they it B1G play. They don't have a true big in the last conference on earth where you need one. Okpara probably is that, but isn't strong enough at this point. Sensabaugh may very well be a one and done guy, but his defense is pretty terrible at this point. Every B1G team they play is going to slow the game down, make them earn it on offense, and OSU just can't do that. And at this point in the season, they can't guard an entire possession either.

I may be on of the few, but I give Holtmann one more year. I like the group of young guys this team has, and like whats coming in. But we shall see, Holtmann should be counting his lucky stars that OSU is football obsessed and people really don't tune into basketball until March.

I really have no dog in the fight - though I hate to see one of the B1G's flagship programs down for the good of the league - but this is about where I am.

That said, this situation, at least at this point. is mirroring Archie Miller's final season at the helm of IU. But, for comparison sake, Archie's ill-fated final IU season occurred during a short Covid season with an injury riddled team, while this OSU team, which I'll agree is flawed compared with Holtmann's previous teams at both Butler and OSU, was still actually projected to finish around 3rd to 5th in the Conference and safely in the NCAA tourney picture. In other words, they are underachieving, no getting around it.

If the Buckeyes fail to win another game this season or win (at most) two games, then Holtmann's tenure at OSU could conceivably come to an end. The difference is Miller didn't have a top-flight recruiting class coming in the next season as Holtmann currently has.

[bucksfan2]

I really have no dog in the fight - though I hate to see one of the B1G's flagship programs down for the good of the league - but this is about where I am.

That said, this situation, at least at this point. is mirroring Archie Miller's final season at the helm of IU. But, for comparison sake, Archie's ill-fated final IU season occurred during a short Covid season with an injury riddled team, while this OSU team, which I'll agree is flawed compared with Holtmann's previous teams at both Butler and OSU, was still actually projected to finish around 3rd to 5th in the Conference and safely in the NCAA tourney picture. In other words, they are underachieving, no getting around it.

If the Buckeyes fail to win another game this season or win (at most) two games, then Holtmann's tenure at OSU could conceivably come to an end. The difference is Miller didn't have a top-flight recruiting class coming in the next season as Holtmann currently has.

This team reminds me of Thad's last season at OSU. With a caveat that they were pretty fun to watch early. I saw a stat yesterday, but just checked, and 10 of their losses are by less than 10 points. They got in this funk early in the losing streak where they continued to lose close games. They found a way to lose those games.

Recently the games have reminded me of Thad's last season. Just a team who isn't playing well, isn't jelling, just isn't a whole lot of fun to watch.

The reason I would stick with Holtman is he has a nice core of young players and has a nice recruiting class coming in. This is really the first season he has stubbed his toe. Now some can say he has been somewhat lackluster in the tournament, which I will agree. Some of it has been match ups, some of it has been poor performance. FWIW the only time he didn't make it out of the first round was his highest seeded team. And you still can't convince me that Oral Roberts was a 15 seed!

Basketball is interesting in that the grad transfers had already started to play a pretty big roll in a teams success. So I don't think the portal has had the massive and overwhelming impact that it has in other sports. At the same time I think Holtman has been pretty lackluster in the portal. Seems to bring in a guy or two each season who is just kinda blah.

Its probably been Holtman's worst coaching job at OSU, but I am willing to give him another season because I think the future looks promising.

[Revering4Blue]

This team reminds me of Thad's last season at OSU. With a caveat that they were pretty fun to watch early. I saw a stat yesterday, but just checked, and 10 of their losses are by less than 10 points. They got in this funk early in the losing streak where they continued to lose close games. They found a way to lose those games.

Recently the games have reminded me of Thad's last season. Just a team who isn't playing well, isn't jelling, just isn't a whole lot of fun to watch.

The reason I would stick with Holtman is he has a nice core of young players and has a nice recruiting class coming in. This is really the first season he has stubbed his toe. Now some can say he has been somewhat lackluster in the tournament, which I will agree. Some of it has been match ups, some of it has been poor performance. FWIW the only time he didn't make it out of the first round was his highest seeded team. And you still can't convince me that Oral Roberts was a 15 seed!

Basketball is interesting in that the grad transfers had already started to play a pretty big roll in a teams success. So I don't think the portal has had the massive and overwhelming impact that it has in other sports. At the same time I think Holtman has been pretty lackluster in the portal. Seems to bring in a guy or two each season who is just kinda blah.

Its probably been Holtman's worst coaching job at OSU, but I am willing to give him another season because I think the future looks promising.

Oral Roberts was definitely under-seeded two years ago. We will never know what would have transpired had there been no pandemic and canceled ‘20 tournament. The other instances under Holtmann where they were eliminated before the Sweet 16 occurred when they were underdogs against the teams that eliminated them.

This is really the only season in which they have truly underachieved by any reasonable metric.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[traderumor]

Gene Smith already said Holtmann is their coach of the future. He will at least be given a chance with next year's class.

[Assembly Hall]

Saw this:

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-basketball/2023/02/137296/chris-holtmann-says-bruce-thornton-earned-captain-status-in-recent-team-revote-previews-rematch-with-northwestern

[bucksfan2]

Oral Roberts was definitely under-seeded two years ago. We will never know what would have transpired had there been no pandemic and canceled ‘20 tournament. The other instances under Holtmann where they were eliminated before the Sweet 16 occurred when they were underdogs against the teams that eliminated them.

This is really the only season in which they have truly underachieved by any reasonable metric.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Even that pandemic season was somewhat disjointed. They started off hot, DJ Carton left the team midway through the season, then they had that January lull that seems to happen to every Holtmann team, and looked to have righted the ship.

Holtmann's teams have always performed as to be expected in the tournament (sans the Oral Roberts game.) They win they games they should, one out performance against Iowa St, and they lose the games they should lose.

One trend with his teams is they tend to start off hot, but then have a B1G skid. I don't know why that is, and it seems like in all those season they screw up their NCAA seeding. That is pretty much my biggest beef with Holtmann at OSU.

If you see coaches who are on the hot seat and about to get fired, more often its not just the bad season. It may be a coupe of disappointing seasons in a row. The coach may have mailed in the recruiting (see Thad) and really has nothing to bank the next season on. Hotmann has probably stacked his best and deepest classes together. Sensabaugh may be gone, but the core is quality and the Calvary is coming.

[RiverRat13]

Even if Sensabaugh tests the NBA waters and decides to come back to college, does he stay at OSU or transfer somewhere that has a legit shot at the National Title?

[Mitri]

Sensabaugh is looking like a mid-first round talent at this point. He’s gone unless he gets hurt.

[RedTeamGo!]

Gene Smith already said Holtmann is their coach of the future. He will at least be given a chance with next year's class.

Its probably time for Gene Smith to move on as well.

[Assembly Hall]

The schedule is in their favor, so if they can get hot there is still a chance for the NCAAT.

[RedTeamGo!]

The schedule is in their favor, so if they can get hot there is still a chance for the NCAAT.

How is it in their favor? Every team left is clearly better than them. They are going to lose at least 17 games.

[Assembly Hall]

How is it in their favor? Every team left is clearly better than them. They are going to lose at least 17 games.

More home games than road games.

[westofyou]

More home games than road games.

And it's Big Ten basketball, it's all about small amounts of possessions and making the best of those. It's not a free flowing run and gun style and the former plays much better at home in the college game.

[RedTeamGo!]

11-13 just lost by 6 at home to Northwestern with an absolutely empty Value City Arena. Not sure what else Gene Smith needs to see.

[Assembly Hall]

https://twitter.com/swankywolverine/status/1622250616813748227?s=20&t=6JuHUtMm145mgqgE4fPeIA

[dubc47834]

OSU cost me a shot at $400 last night. Only game I lost on a 6 game parlay. Never again...LOL

[RedTeamGo!]

I cannot imagine putting money on OSU basketball right now. Why??? They are legit awful.

- - - Updated - - -


https://twitter.com/swankywolverine/status/1622250616813748227?s=20&t=6JuHUtMm145mgqgE4fPeIA

I mean, Michigan is 14-10, not exactly killing it this year.

[Mitri]

They're so bad. What a complete disaster of a season.

[RedTeamGo!]

The fact McNeil and Likikele get significant minutes tells you everything you need to know about this season. An absolute disaster.

[RedTeamGo!]

Likekele reminds me of a pickup basketball player. He just dribbles all over the place then chucks up ridiculous shots that rarely go in. The dude is averaging 25 minutes played a game and is averaging 4 points. I mean, I am not even mad, thats impressive. I don't understand why the media isn't asking Holtmann "Why is Likekele playing 25 minutes a game?"

[dubc47834]

I cannot imagine putting money on OSU basketball right now. Why??? They are legit awful.

- - - Updated - - -



I mean, Michigan is 14-10, not exactly killing it this year.

It was a home game, I figured they had a good chance at beating Northwestern...guess I was wrong...lol

[WVRed]

The fact McNeil and Likikele get significant minutes tells you everything you need to know about this season. An absolute disaster.

I watched McNeil last year at WVU. He’s undersized for a SG and a turnstile on defense. Only benefit to his game is 3 pt and free throw shooting but those can be easily mitigated with his flaws.

[bucksfan2]

I watched McNeil last year at WVU. He’s undersized for a SG and a turnstile on defense. Only benefit to his game is 3 pt and free throw shooting but those can be easily mitigated with his flaws.

I actually didn't mind the McNeil acquisition. He is a guard who can get his own shot and is fairly accurate when he shoots. IMO one of the biggest issues last season was their shooter, Ahrnes, who couldn't get his own shot, and wouldn't shoot the ball unless he was behind the line.

I thought Holden would have a roll, but he really hasn't gotten into any type of rotation.

Zed Key is turning into an Amir Williams type of player for me. A guy who has shown flashes as a younger player but just hasn't developed. Key has done the exact same thing in the past two seasons, starts off strong and then loses all confidence as the season goes along.

[Assembly Hall]

I actually didn't mind the McNeil acquisition. He is a guard who can get his own shot and is fairly accurate when he shoots. IMO one of the biggest issues last season was their shooter, Ahrnes, who couldn't get his own shot, and wouldn't shoot the ball unless he was behind the line.

I thought Holden would have a roll, but he really hasn't gotten into any type of rotation.

Zed Key is turning into an Amir Williams type of player for me. A guy who has shown flashes as a younger player but just hasn't developed. Key has done the exact same thing in the past two seasons, starts off strong and then loses all confidence as the season goes along.

Play the freshmen.

[RedTeamGo!]

41 points today at home in a 21 point loss to Sparty. 11-14.

Not sure what else to say.

[oregonred]

I jinxed this complete dumpster fire of a team before the Purdue game. Holtmann better be on the hot seat.

[Assembly Hall]

41 points today at home in a 21 point loss to Sparty. 11-14.

Not sure what else to say.

Poor Clark Kellogg having to call it.

[Sea Ray]

41 points today at home in a 21 point loss to Sparty. 11-14.

Not sure what else to say.

This year is an F'up. Reboot next yr

[Revering4Blue]

41 points today at home in a 21 point loss to Sparty. 11-14.

Not sure what else to say.

If they lose all of their remaining games- highly possible- I don’t see how Holtmann survives unless they really believe in the incoming recruiting class, and even that factor alone may not be enough.

For comparisons sake, Northwestern is in third place with a considerably less talented roster than OSU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Assembly Hall]

After what Northwestern did to Purdue it is mind boggling that the Bucks won in Evanston by 16.

[traderumor]

What stuck out to me yesterday was the complete inability of the offensive scheme to generate points in the paint. Michigan State sloughed 2-3 guys to the lane, daring them to chuck 3's, so they called their dare...and missed shot after shot for the second game in a row. That and the complete and utter failure on the offensive end. Operator error or poor offensive scheme? At this point I am going with Holtmann's offense is ineffective and easy to defend and overrelies on guys making plays to have success.

[Assembly Hall]

Well that wasn't very pretty. Why is Sueing even on the floor?

[RedTeamGo!]

This team very well may lose out. How can Holtmann possibly survivor that?

[Assembly Hall]

This team very well may lose out. How can Holtmann possibly survivor that?

Not looking good for the Bucks or Holtmann.

[Sea Ray]

No shame in losing on the road to Purdue. I don't think today's game moves the needle for them at all. As for next year, the choice is simple: you either fire him based on this year or you bring him back based on his recruiting class. I think it'll be the latter. Regardless, what happens the rest of this yr is irrelevant to those 2 options. If you're judging him on this year, he's already earned a firing

[RiverRat13]

This team very well may lose out. How can Holtmann possibly survivor that?

Is it true he has a $20mm buyout? That’s the only thing that could save him. A coach having a team quit on him should be a fireable offense.

[RedTeamGo!]

Is it true he has a $20mm buyout? That’s the only thing that could save him. A coach having a team quit on him should be a fireable offense.

I’ve read it’s $15 mil

[Revering4Blue]

Is it true he has a $20mm buyout? That’s the only thing that could save him. A coach having a team quit on him should be a fireable offense.


I’ve read it’s $15 mil

Given the OSU boosters and influx of $$ from the B1G Ten Network, $15-$20 million amounts to relative chump change for a coaching buyout. Should Holtmann be retained after this season - which I don't foresee happening if they go winless the rest of the way - lack of $$ for a contract buyout shouldn't factor into the equation.

[WVRed]

Is it true he has a $20mm buyout? That’s the only thing that could save him. A coach having a team quit on him should be a fireable offense.

Should be but it’s easier to let the coach come back and clean house through the transfer portal now and try your luck at it again next year.

[bucksfan2]

They buyout isn't and shouldn't be an issue. I am sure they won't like paying it, but paying it won't be an issue.

I think you need decide if this season is an aberration or the beginning of a downward spiral.

This season reminds me of Thad's last year at OSU. Thad had mailed it in for a while, his recruiting classes were garbage, and his last recruiting class he was searching for answers. Not only did the team quit on him, but he had nothing of substance coming in.

There have been some odd things happening with this team. The revote for captains mid season. Okpara coming out and saying some people aren't putting in the effort in practice. And the play has just fallen off since their last minute loss to Purdue a month plus ago.

If Holtmann loses his job it will be deserved, but I could also see the season just be declared a lost season and they move on.

[Redsfaithful]

Crazy that it's really been a full decade since Ohio State was nationally relevant. Just no excuse for a program with so many resources and so much in-state talent. Feels like we aren't too far from the Randy Ayers era at this point.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Crazy that it's really been a full decade since Ohio State was nationally relevant. Just no excuse for a program with so many resources and so much in-state talent. Feels like we aren't too far from the Randy Ayers era at this point.

I feel this is more because of the direction of college basketball. What programs are consistently nationally relevant? Like 4?

[Redsfaithful]

I feel this is more because of the direction of college basketball. What programs are consistently nationally relevant? Like 4?

Could be, but if a place has the resources to compete in football it's difficult not to think they should be in the mix for a conference title and top 4 seed every year. I know OSU is still getting their NIL ducks in a row, so maybe it'll improve.

[Assembly Hall]

I feel this is more because of the direction of college basketball. What programs are consistently nationally relevant? Like 4?

Define relevant. I view the Buckeyes as a perennial Top 25 team and with that a perennial NCAAT appearance. That is relevant in my book.

[Revering4Blue]

Define relevant. I view the Buckeyes as a perennial Top 25 team and with that a perennial NCAAT appearance. That is relevant in my book.

IMO, that more describes the theoretical expectation for, say, Wisconsin, rather than Ohio State.

Granted, we all have different views about National relevance in regards to program expectations, but I base them upon structural factors, which Redsfaithful pointed out, heavily favor Ohio State, even though they are a football first school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[traderumor]

My first experience with Buckeye basketball was the lean Fred Taylor twilight years of the early 70s until Eldon Miller revived the program once and for all. This is nothing and easily fixable. Maybe Holtmann needs a dynamic assistant to teach an old dog new tricks.

[bucksfan2]

My first experience with Buckeye basketball was the lean Fred Taylor twilight years of the early 70s until Eldon Miller revived the program once and for all. This is nothing and easily fixable. Maybe Holtmann needs a dynamic assistant to teach an old dog new tricks.

I never really followed OSU basketball until Thad got there. When I was there 00-04 the team was ok, but there just wasn't any level of excitement. Student tickets were pretty poor, they sold in packages, there wasn't a good student section, and the Schott just isn't a good college arena (still isn't.) Thad brought the excitement, brought top tier players, and brought a style of play that was fun to watch. I have pretty watched every one of their games I can. This is the first season where I just have been too busy to really pay attention (and their losing has given me pause as well.) FWIW when you look back at Thad's tenure, whether or not it was his physical condition or what, he had mailed it in. It was time for a separation of the two. One for the program to go in another direction, and another for Thad to get some R and R.

The last time a team reminded me of this current squad was Thad's last season. Bates-Diop got hurt, the rest of the team was pretty blah, and guys were decommitting left and right. Holtmann came in, got a favorable B1G schedule, got Bates-Diop back, and made the most out of Tate. Man was that a fun team to watch. During Holtman's tenure I have always been waiting for the cavalry to come in. For a couple of talented freshman come in to supplement a ready to go veteran team. They thought they had it one year with Carton, but didn't work out. I thought they had something with Branham but he was better than anticipated. I will also mention that Washington going to the NBA was a surprise and completely unexpected.

This has not been a good season, probably one that either gets Holtmann fired or puts him squarely on the hot seat.

[Assembly Hall]

Congrats Bucknuts.

[Sea Ray]

Congrats Bucknuts.

What'd they win, other than a game?

[Redsfaithful]

I will happily accept congrats after winning two in a row. It's been that kind of year.

[goreds2]

It would be cool to see the Buckeyes get a win or 3 in the Big 10 Tournament.

[RedTeamGo!]

Winning these past 2 games has likely ensured Holtmann will be back next year, so I honestly view these wins as a negative. I was rooting for them to lose out. Not joking.

[goreds2]

Ladies Big 10 Tournament:

FYI that the lady Buckeye Basketball team play vs Michigan around 2pm today pending on when previous game completes.

TV = Big 10 Network (Fox Sports App)

[Assembly Hall]

Winning these past 2 games has likely ensured Holtmann will be back next year, so I honestly view these wins as a negative. I was rooting for them to lose out. Not joking.

If the Bucks could only have found a way to win all those close losses.

[goreds2]

Ladies Big 10 Tournament:

FYI that the lady Buckeye Basketball team play vs Michigan around 2pm today pending on when previous game completes.

TV = Big 10 Network (Fox Sports App)

Lady Buckeyes have beaten Michigan 3 times this season. Who knows, they may beat them again in the NCAA tournament.

[goreds2]

Mens Big 10 tournament.


The Ohio State-Wisconsin game will be played at 6:30 p.m. Wednesday at Chicago’s United Center. The game will be televised nationally by Big Ten Network. The winner will advance to face No. 5 seed Iowa (19-12, 11-9). That game would be played at 2:30 p.m. Eastern time on Thursday.

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Article/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-mens-basketball-will-meet-Wisconsin-Badgers-in-Big-Ten-Tournament-first-round-game-205821346/Amp/

[goreds2]

Buckeyes lead Wisconsin 36-18 at halftime. Game on Big 10 Network.

[goreds2]

Buckeyes lead Wisconsin 36-18 at halftime. Game on Big 10 Network.

Ohio State up by 27 at one point pulls it off and wins by 8.

Ohio State plays Iowa tomorrow around 2:30pm est. on Big 10 Network. OSU has won 3 of 4.

[goreds2]

Fun a couple of games thus far.

Fri, 3/10
vs
Michigan State
2:30 PM
BTN

[WVRed]

Winning these past 2 games has likely ensured Holtmann will be back next year, so I honestly view these wins as a negative. I was rooting for them to lose out. Not joking.

Isn’t he a candidate for Notre Dame?

[Revering4Blue]

Isn’t he a candidate for Notre Dame?

According to the grapevine here in NW Indiana, he’s no longer a realistic possibility. FWIW, the favorites for the Irish job are Heat assistant and ND grad, Chris Quinn, and Colgate’s Matt Langel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Redsfaithful]

Can't imagine they'll keep it rolling, but I didn't think they'd beat Iowa either. Not a bad thing that they had a little fight in them here.

[bucksfan2]

Can't imagine they'll keep it rolling, but I didn't think they'd beat Iowa either. Not a bad thing that they had a little fight in them here.

They have been playing better and the young guys have been stepping up. There are still some major issues, Likekele is still bad and getting minutes. At times the ball just stick and it becomes one on one. And there is no depth at PG and C.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sensabaugh is out against Sparty today. So that’s probably that.

[kaldaniels]

Sensabaugh is out against Sparty today. So that’s probably that.

Yeah - that aside just with general wear and tear it has to be next to impossible to win five games in five days to win the tournament. Has that even ever happened before in a major conference? (I imagine most conferences only require at most 4 wins to win their tourney).

[Boss-Hog]

Yeah - that aside just with general wear and tear it has to be next to impossible to win five games in five days to win the tournament. Has that even ever happened before in a major conference? (I imagine most conferences only require at most 4 wins to win their tourney).UConn with Kemba Walker (2011 Big East tournament, I think)

[westofyou]

UConn with Kemba Walker (2011 Big East tournament, I think)

That's the only one I know of

[cumberlandreds]

That's the only one I know of

Didn't Syracuse do that one year too?

[cumberlandreds]

Didn't Syracuse do that one year too?

I looked it up. The one I was thinking about was 2006. Syracuse won 4 games as 9 seed that year. Gerry MacNamara had a big tournament was the reason I remembered it at all.

[westofyou]

Think Boheim got to office today and all his stuff was in boxes in the hallway?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Shooting the lights out right now, up 9 just before half.

[Assembly Hall]

Shooting the lights out right now, up 9 just before half.

Looking good for you Buck fans.

[kaldaniels]

Contrary to the announcers trying to will the Izzos to a comeback, looks like the Bucks will advance.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Well might as well just win the tournament now.

Where was this Gayle all year? Goodness.

[Assembly Hall]

Where was this Gayle all year? Goodness.

Watching Sueing play hero ball?

[goreds2]

Sat, 3/11
vs

Purdue

1:00 PM

CBS

Buckeyes first Big 10 team to play Wednesday and advance to Saturday game.

[RedTeamGo!]

Wow

[kaldaniels]

Wow

Yep. At some point we have to jump on and enjoy the ride.

[cumberlandreds]

Almost every year someone makes a miracle run through the conference tournaments. This year its Ohio State. Enjoy the ride you Buckeye fans!

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sensabaugh is out for the rest of the season with the knee injury.

[Assembly Hall]

Sensabaugh is out for the rest of the season with the knee injury.

Gayle doesn't mind.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Played decent until that 6 point possession with the flagrant.

Gonna have to shoot the lights out to win.

[RedTeamGo!]

Purdue getting away with constant moving screens and OSU getting called for a foul every time they breathe on a Purdue player. Tough to win in that situation.

Fun while it lasted. Still want Holtmann fired.

[goreds2]

Women Buckeyes win yesterday to advance. They are a fun team to watch as they full court press and create a lot of turnovers.

Mon, 3/20
vs
6 UNC
4:00 PM
ESPN

[bucksfan2]

So I am just going to throw it in here because it may be the best place for it. The B1G and there awful NCAA showings. FWIW I think Sparty has a path right now towards a final four, and maybe even a Natty, but that is besides the point.

Purdue is going to be Purdue until Painter changes his style of play. The same can pretty much be said for the rest of the B1G. While most leagues and teams have adapted, the B1G continues to play a bruising style of basketball. The way the NBA used to be when a big man could dominate the game. Anymore you need a big man who can stretch the defense. A big who can hit the outside shot was well as post up inside. The game has changed where you need 5 guys on the court who can shoot. You either want an open 3 or a shot driving to the basket. Anytime a non B1G team plays Purdue, they are going to make the big man guard all over the court. On defense they are going to double and triple the big making him earn everything.

I do think Purdue beats FDU 99 times out of 100, they just lost the one time it counts. And for the whole B1G, the reality was the conference had Purdue, then a bunch of good teams, not great teams. IU was the only other team seeded to make it out of the first weekend, and their best player was another guy who couldn't hit the outside shot. TJD is a damn good player, but if he isn't going to be able to stretch the court, teams are going to play him the same way the play other bigs in the league.

I don't know if things are really going to change in the B1G unless there is an overhaul in recruiting. There have been some very good teams over the past decade who fell short. I do wonder if the grind of the season takes a toll on the teams. Or maybe you have to survive the B1G season playing one way then change your style when it comes tournament time.

[goreds2]

Women Buckeyes win yesterday to advance. They are a fun team to watch as they full court press and create a lot of turnovers.

Mon, 3/20
vs
6 UNC
4:00 PM
ESPN

This game is now on. Flipping between this game and the Reds on Bally Sports Ohio.

[goreds2]

Women Buckeyes win yesterday to advance. They are a fun team to watch as they full court press and create a lot of turnovers.

Mon, 3/20
vs
6 UNC
4:00 PM
ESPN

Lady Buckeyes win by 2 and advance to the Sweet 16.

[BuckeyeRed27]

So I am just going to throw it in here because it may be the best place for it. The B1G and there awful NCAA showings. FWIW I think Sparty has a path right now towards a final four, and maybe even a Natty, but that is besides the point.

Purdue is going to be Purdue until Painter changes his style of play. The same can pretty much be said for the rest of the B1G. While most leagues and teams have adapted, the B1G continues to play a bruising style of basketball. The way the NBA used to be when a big man could dominate the game. Anymore you need a big man who can stretch the defense. A big who can hit the outside shot was well as post up inside. The game has changed where you need 5 guys on the court who can shoot. You either want an open 3 or a shot driving to the basket. Anytime a non B1G team plays Purdue, they are going to make the big man guard all over the court. On defense they are going to double and triple the big making him earn everything.

I do think Purdue beats FDU 99 times out of 100, they just lost the one time it counts. And for the whole B1G, the reality was the conference had Purdue, then a bunch of good teams, not great teams. IU was the only other team seeded to make it out of the first weekend, and their best player was another guy who couldn't hit the outside shot. TJD is a damn good player, but if he isn't going to be able to stretch the court, teams are going to play him the same way the play other bigs in the league.

I don't know if things are really going to change in the B1G unless there is an overhaul in recruiting. There have been some very good teams over the past decade who fell short. I do wonder if the grind of the season takes a toll on the teams. Or maybe you have to survive the B1G season playing one way then change your style when it comes tournament time.

When we talk about underperformance what are the metrics we are looking at?

If you have a single elimination tournament you are gonna get some goofy stuff happening. The Bjg Ten has had some good but probably not elite teams the last couple seasons and haven’t looked good. Does that mean you have to fundamentally change everything? I’m with you on style of play, but I don’t think that’s a specific Big Ten thing. I do think the conference is hurt by playing a physical style, that often times leads to your good players in constant foul trouble in the tournament when you get different officials.

[Sea Ray]

When we talk about underperformance what are the metrics we are looking at?

If you have a single elimination tournament you are gonna get some goofy stuff happening. The Bjg Ten has had some good but probably not elite teams the last couple seasons and haven’t looked good. Does that mean you have to fundamentally change everything? I’m with you on style of play, but I don’t think that’s a specific Big Ten thing. I do think the conference is hurt by playing a physical style, that often times leads to your good players in constant foul trouble in the tournament when you get different officials.

The metric is championships. The Big Ten hasn't won it in Div 1 basketball since the turn of the century

[BuckeyeRed27]

The metric is championships. The Big Ten hasn't won it in Div 1 basketball since the turn of the century

Ok but I don’t think that’s the metric he’s talking about. I’ll let him speak for himself.

[Sea Ray]

Ok but I don’t think that’s the metric he’s talking about. I’ll let him speak for himself.

I'm only speaking for myself

[RedTeamGo!]

When we talk about underperformance what are the metrics we are looking at?

If you have a single elimination tournament you are gonna get some goofy stuff happening. The Bjg Ten has had some good but probably not elite teams the last couple seasons and haven’t looked good. Does that mean you have to fundamentally change everything? I’m with you on style of play, but I don’t think that’s a specific Big Ten thing. I do think the conference is hurt by playing a physical style, that often times leads to your good players in constant foul trouble in the tournament when you get different officials.

It's been 23 years. The Big Ten gets 8-10 teams in every year and disappoints. Often lose to "inferior" competition in 1st round. At this point, yes, something is absolutely fundamentally wrong with the conference and big changes are needed. I am not entirely sure what it is, but first things first: the NCAA needs to stop putting so many garbage big ten teams in the tourney. This should be a 4-5 bid conference. Taking away bids from deserving teams.

- - - Updated - - -


The metric is championships. The Big Ten hasn't won it in Div 1 basketball since the turn of the century

Hell, the metric could also be making it out of the opening weekend. The Big Ten sucks at that too.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It's been 23 years. The Big Ten gets 8-10 teams in every year and disappoints. Often lose to "inferior" competition in 1st round. At this point, yes, something is absolutely fundamentally wrong with the conference and big changes are needed. I am not entirely sure what it is, but first things first: the NCAA needs to stop putting so many garbage big ten teams in the tourney. This should be a 4-5 bid conference. Taking away bids from deserving teams.

- - - Updated - - -



Hell, the metric could also be making it out of the opening weekend. The Big Ten sucks at that too.

In the last 10 tournaments they’ve had 6 final four teams and 3 teams play for the title. Granted none have won. The 12 years before that up to Sparty winning are pretty consistent with those numbers.

I’d want to see numbers if the Big Ten top seeds underperform the opening weekend compared to other major conferences. Id bet you just follow it and notice it more and it’s probably similar to what other conferences look like.

[RedTeamGo!]

6 final fours in 10 years when you get 8-10 teams in the tourney every year is not good

[westofyou]

6 final fours in 10 years when you get 8-10 teams in the tourney every year is not good


I'd like to see the other conferences data

Here's overall performance


Since 1985



CONFERENCE WINS LOSSES PERCENTAGE
MW City * 2 1 66.67%
ACC 318 162 66.25%
Big East 286 177 61.77%
Big Ten 278 181 60.57%
SEC 231 151 60.47%
American 11 8 57.89%
Big 8 * 67 49 57.76%
Big 12 159 117 57.61%
PCAA * 8 6 57.14%
Pac-10 * 141 107 56.85%
Great Midwest * 15 12 55.56%
Pac-12 26 24 52.00%
Metro * 26 25 50.98%
CUSA 54 53 50.47%
Horizon 19 19 50.00%
A-10 88 98 47.31%
SWC 21 24 46.67%
WCC 35 41 46.05%
Independents 13 18 41.94%
MVC 40 59 40.40%
WAC 42 65 39.25%
Big West 21 33 38.89%
CAA 21 37 36.21%
MAC 19 38 33.33%
MWC 22 44 33.33%
MW Coll * 10 22 31.25%
Sun Belt 16 42 27.59%
ASC * 1 3 25.00%
Mid-Cont * 7 23 23.33%
NAC * 2 8 20.00%
Ivy 8 33 19.51%
A-Sun 6 32 15.79%
Southern 6 33 15.38%
OVC 6 34 15.00%
Southland 5 32 13.51%
MAAC 5 33 13.16%
WCAC * 1 7 12.50%
Patriot 3 25 10.71%
ECAC * 1 9 10.00%
MEAC 3 28 9.68%
Summit 1 10 9.09%
Big Sky 3 32 8.57%
American East 1 20 4.76%
Big South 1 21 4.55%
SWAC 1 24 4.00%
ECC * 0 7 0.00%
NEC 0 25 0.00%




Out of the 32 current conferences, just eight have winning records in the tournament's modern format

Here they are, ordered by winning percentage:



CONFERENCE WINS LOSSES PERCENTAGE
ACC 318 162 66.25%
Big East 286 177 61.77%
Big Ten 278 181 60.57%
SEC 231 151 60.47%
American 11 8 57.89%
Big 12 159 117 57.61%
Pac-12 26 24 52.00%
CUSA 54 53 50.47%

[RedTeamGo!]

define the modern format. What year is that going back to?

[BuckeyeRed27]

6 final fours in 10 years when you get 8-10 teams in the tourney every year is not good

You can check my math, but I ran it from 2012 (no 2020 tournament) and the ACC had 7, Big 12, Big East and SEC had 6 and the PAC has 2. The rest were mid majors with 2 as the most.

[RedTeamGo!]

You can check my math, but I ran it from 2012 (no 2020 tournament) and the ACC had 7, Big 12, Big East and SEC had 6 and the PAC has 2. The rest were mid majors with 2 as the most.

The PAC 12 lost all respect and gets like 4 teams in these days. The Big Ten, regularly, gets more teams in the tourney.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The PAC 12 lost all respect and gets like 4 teams in these days. The Big Ten, regularly, gets more teams in the tourney.

Ok, but they get about the same as the others and seem to be putting roughly the same amount of teams at the end. They just haven’t won one.

[Revering4Blue]

define the modern format. What year is that going back to?

NM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RedTeamGo!]

Ah, I missed 1985. 1985-2000 was a totally different ballgame, we are talking more recent memory than that. What do those stats show since 2010? Or even 2000.

[westofyou]

Ah, I missed 1985. 1985-2000 was a totally different ballgame, we are talking more recent memory than that. What do those stats show since 2010? Or even 2000.

Here's 2000-2012 from an article I found



Conference Wins F/16 F/4 Championships
ACC 148 38 11 6
Big East 114 29 9 2
Big Ten 110 28 10 1
Big 12 109 29 8 1
SEC 106 26 6 3
Pac 12 83 23 4 0


Best of Rest
A-10 25 7 0 0
WCC 21 6 0 0
Horizon 20 5 2 0
MVC 14 5 0 0
Colonial 13 2 2 0
MWC 11 2 0 0
MAC 8 2 0 0
C-USA 8 2 0 0

[Danny Serafini]

This should be a 4-5 bid conference.

Which 3-4 Big 10 teams are you taking out of this year's tournament?

And what slighted mid-majors are you going to put in?

[RedTeamGo!]

Which 3-4 Big 10 teams are you taking out of this year's tournament?

And what slighted mid-majors are you going to put in?

Michigan St
Iowa - absurd this team made the tourney
Illinois
Penn State

I think Purdue, Indiana, and Northwestern are only teams that were locks

[Danny Serafini]

Michigan St
Iowa - absurd this team made the tourney
Illinois
Penn State

I think Purdue, Indiana, and Northwestern are only teams that were locks

Now you're confusing me. Pulling a 7 seed out of the tourney is nuts in its own right, how was Northwestern a lock and Illinois shouldn't be in? NW finished one game up in conference, but their best non-conference win is Liberty, while Illinois beat a pair of #2 seeds (Texas and UCLA) in non-conference play. I have to imagine that would hold more value than beating one extra mediocre Big 10 team.

And who are you putting in over Michigan St.?

[RedTeamGo!]

Now you're confusing me. Pulling a 7 seed out of the tourney is nuts in its own right, how was Northwestern a lock and Illinois shouldn't be in? NW finished one game up in conference, but their best non-conference win is Liberty, while Illinois beat a pair of #2 seeds (Texas and UCLA) in non-conference play. I have to imagine that would hold more value than beating one extra mediocre Big 10 team.

And who are you putting in over Michigan St.?

I don't really have to pick who deserved to go over MSU, I will simply say a team that won more than 19 games. If you fail to win 20, I do not think you should be eligible. Similar to how football has the 6 win cutoff.

[Sea Ray]

I don't really have to pick who deserved to go over MSU, I will simply say a team that won more than 19 games. If you fail to win 20, I do not think you should be eligible. Similar to how football has the 6 win cutoff.

Don't sugar coat it. Say what you mean. If you're thinking that Toledo deserved a bid, just say so

[RedTeamGo!]

Don't sugar coat it. Say what you mean. If you're thinking that Toledo deserved a bid, just say so

Nope, that is not what I am getting at and is completely unrelated to Toledo. I think the Big Ten has been overrated for years in college basketball and they shouldn't get as many bids as they get.

[Revering4Blue]

The fact that Nevada, who received the last at-large bid, proceeded to get absolutely blown out by an Arizona State team weaker than ALL of the B1G teams that qualified for the tourney doesn't exactly help the mid-majors are getting hosed by the NCAA selection committee argument.

[Redsfaithful]

Michigan State just beat a 2 seed but shouldn't have gotten in? I don't think I understand the argument - if anything they were probably a little under seeded.

[bucksfan2]

Nope, that is not what I am getting at and is completely unrelated to Toledo. I think the Big Ten has been overrated for years in college basketball and they shouldn't get as many bids as they get.

The NCAA has pretty much released their system for how they select teams for the tournament. Anymore you see most of the bracketologists predict 67 of the 68 teams or even all 68 team who make the tournament. The thing is, you may think the B1G is overrated, but the rest of college basketball doesn't. There is an argument between disappointing and being unqualified.

Your argument against MSU making the field would have more standing had there not been 16+ teams they have been ranked above who made the field. A #7 seed has do doubt that they were going to make the tournament.

FWIW I tend to think of the teams on the bubble, the nod should go to a mid major over a power conference team. A power conference team had has plenty of chances to earn their bid, give the toss up to the smaller guy. But I also think you throw one of those aforementioned B1G teams in a one bid league, and they are winning that league with relative ease.

[RedTeamGo!]

Michigan State just beat a 2 seed but shouldn't have gotten in? I don't think I understand the argument - if anything they were probably a little under seeded.

They were 19-12 coming into the tourney. I just don’t think they should make it. It’s like the Alabama should have made the CFP argument with 2 losses and no conference championship appearance. Does the regular season just absolutely not matter for some teams? MSU won 4 more games than OSU this year and this is the worst OSU team in literal decades.

[RedTeamGo!]

Michigan State just beat a 2 seed but shouldn't have gotten in? I don't think I understand the argument - if anything they were probably a little under seeded.

And Fairleigh Dickinson just beat a 1 seed. Who cares? Fairleigh Dickinson was underseeded?

[Redsfaithful]

And Fairleigh Dickinson just beat a 1 seed. Who cares? Fairleigh Dickinson was underseeded?

I think most people view any worse seed winning as an upset, but I think a lot of times it's more the committee screwed up. Sometimes pretty egregiously, often because a small school wasn't given enough respect.

It's a judgment call, of course a lot of upsets are genuine surprises, but then you have situations where a worse seed is favored by Vegas - is that really an upset? It's just people sitting in a room making these decisions and they get it wrong a fair amount.

Michigan State is a 2 point favorite over Kansas State right now, so I do think it's fair to say they might have been slightly underseeded. Not like it's a huge deal, but they arguably could have hung a 5 or 6 on them.

[Danny Serafini]

If you fail to win 20, I do not think you should be eligible.

An arbitrary number like that doesn't work. 19 wins in the Big 10 means more than 20 in C-USA which means a bunch more than 25 in the MEAC. Schedules matter.

[cumberlandreds]

An arbitrary number like that doesn't work. 19 wins in the Big 10 means more than 20 in C-USA which means a bunch more than 25 in the MEAC. Schedules matter.

Yep, Its all about who you play and who you beat.

[RedTeamGo!]

An arbitrary number like that doesn't work. 19 wins in the Big 10 means more than 20 in C-USA which means a bunch more than 25 in the MEAC. Schedules matter.

It works in college football. Do schedules matter? Because the big ten beats up on each other every year and everyone acts like the conference is so great and then they get to March and nobody makes it out of the opening weekend.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It works in college football. Do schedules matter? Because the big ten beats up on each other every year and everyone acts like the conference is so great and then they get to March and nobody makes it out of the opening weekend.

Except for the 6 final fours and 3 national titles they’ve played for the past decade.

Can’t really compare basketball to football, but encouraging better regular season games in both should be a goal. What you are proposing does the opposite.

[dubc47834]

If the Selection Committee's job is to put the top 68 teams in the tourney each year, then the B1G consistently has 7-10 of those top teams. I don't care that MSU won 19 games and Toledo went 27-8 this year. Play better teams out of conference. I get it that your conference schedule is what it is. But you can absolutely schedule better out of conference. You know why they don't tho, because they would lose most of those...probably.

[RedTeamGo!]

But you can absolutely schedule better out of conference. You know why they don't tho, because they would lose most of those...probably.

This is not always true at all. A lot of the time mid majors will try to schedule the big boys and they will not agree to it.

[BuckeyeRed27]

This is not always true at all. A lot of the time mid majors will try to schedule the big boys and they will not agree to it.

I actually think it’s gotten harder for mid majors because so many non conference games happen in tournaments or things like the ACC/Big Ten Challenge and most mid majors aren’t getting invited to those. The actual home non conference games are against East South Medical Tech State.

[bucksfan2]

This is not always true at all. A lot of the time mid majors will try to schedule the big boys and they will not agree to it.

I have heard this argument, but I don't know the actual validity of it. Using Toledo as an example, they played zero power 5 schools, and zero schools that I would consider quality basketball programs. They didn't go out and schedule anyone of substance. When you do that your margin is very narrow to get an at large bid. On the other hand, Kent St. went out and played Gonzaga, Houston, and Charleston. Two programs with national title aspirations and one program who was a quality mid major with at large aspirations.

I just went and looked, OSU played 6 non power programs, and all looked to be garbage. Would they have played a Toledo? But I went and looked at College of Charleston's schedule, and what is stopping someone like Toledo from playing that schedule? Or playing a schedule like UD does?

But when your out there complaining about MSU getting in, go find me 10 wins if Toledo plays that schedule. Go find me 10 wins if a bubble mid major plays that schedule.

[dubc47834]

This is not always true at all. A lot of the time mid majors will try to schedule the big boys and they will not agree to it.

True to a small degree. Gonzaga had this issue some I believe, not they go play people on neutral sites. It can be done if they really want to.

[westofyou]

I'm missing the argument here. The reason MAC teams only get so many games with B10 teams is partly because of the draw. Example UM vs EMU, WMU, CMU or even U of Detroit. They will want to host (as will the smaller school) and they hope it will be a good regional draw. That's part of the whole bargain right? UM lost one of those games this year, it followed them like a ghost

But the problem is they can't load up on those matchups, they have to play other conferences big guys or mid guys

College sports has always been a play at your level sport. The cost of playing basketball is minimal and everyone thinks they can roll with the big boys

But not everyone can

[RedTeamGo!]

I'm missing the argument here. The reason MAC teams only get so many games with B10 teams is partly because of the draw. Example UM vs EMU, WMU, CMU or even U of Detroit. They will want to host (as will the smaller school) and they hope it will be a good regional draw. That's part of the whole bargain right? UM lost one of those games this year, it followed them like a ghost

But the problem is they can't load up on those matchups, they have to play other conferences big guys or mid guys

College sports has always been a play at your level sport. The cost of playing basketball is minimal and everyone thinks they can roll with the big boys

But not everyone can

For the 75th time I’m not talking about the MAC and Toledo

With that said, down goes Sparty. Big ten doesn’t get past sweet 16. This is totally fine.

[Sea Ray]

For the 75th time I’m not talking about the MAC and Toledo

With that said, down goes Sparty. Big ten doesn’t get past sweet 16. This is totally fine.

Sparty had quite an overachieving run. Kudos to them

[dubc47834]

For the 75th time I’m not talking about the MAC and Toledo

With that said, down goes Sparty. Big ten doesn’t get past sweet 16. This is totally fine.

They got beat by a 3 seed...good on you pal!

[RedTeamGo!]

They got beat by a 3 seed...good on you pal!

Sparty was favored to win by Vegas. Not exactly a David vs Goliath situation.

[Sea Ray]

Sparty was favored to win by Vegas. Not exactly a David vs Goliath situation.

That's also to their credit

[Mutaman]

Sparty had quite an overachieving run. Kudos to them


If you're not being sarcastic, MSU upset Marquette in what was basically a home game where Marquette played their worst game of the year. Not a big over achievement.

[Sea Ray]

If you're not being sarcastic, MSU upset Marquette in what was basically a home game where Marquette played their worst game of the year. Not a big over achievement.

Sparty getting to the Sweet 16 and taking that game to OT is far better than their talent wold suggest. No sarcasm. MSU overachieved

[Mutaman]

Sparty getting to the Sweet 16 and taking that game to OT is far better than their talent wold suggest. No sarcasm. MSU overachieved

They beat USC in a game where MSU was favored, they upset Marquette, and then they lost to KSU in a game where MSU was favored. We're not exactly talking about 2022 St Peters here.

[Sea Ray]

They beat USC in a game where MSU was favored, they upset Marquette, and then they lost to KSU in a game where MSU was favored. We're not exactly talking about 2022 St Peters here.

No, we're not talking St Peters. I'm just saying they overachieved

[M2]

Meanwhile, the Ohio State hockey team is doing pretty well for itself, plastering Harvard on its way to the final 8.

[goreds2]

Ohio State women’s basketball team plays UCONN today on national TV.

4pm est. on ABC

[goreds2]

Ohio State women’s basketball team plays UCONN today on national TV.

4pm est. on ABC

The Ohio State women defeat UCONN to advance to Elite 8. (First time since 1993)

The last time UCONN women’s team was NOT in the Elite 8 was 2005.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Ohio State women defeat UCONN to advance to Elite 8. (First time since 1993)

The last time UCONN women’s team was NOT in the Elite 8 was 2005.

Watched a lot of the game. UConn just couldn’t figure out how to deal with the press and turned it over constantly.

[goreds2]

A win tonight and the Lady Basketball Buckeyes advance to Final Four:

9pm est. vs Virginia Tech on ESPN.