2022 World Cup

[bucksfan2]

News today is that negotiations are underway to extend Berhalter’s contract to coach the USMNT. Hopefully, this is merely in recognition of a successful qualifying campaign and advancement from the WC Finals group stage. Hopefully, the USSF has greater ambitions for their team and their coach than what they accomplished during Berhalter’s time.
The US was the only CONCACAF squad to advance, which is a better reflection of our talent than the third place we finished. I think we should have the ambition to make the final 8 in 2026, because he should have a big advantage because we are hosting.
I don’t think we have the talent to make the final 4. Look at how much more talent Portugal, Brazil, France, Spain have than the USA.

Van Gaal is a heck of a coach, and he coached circles around Berhalter. The US held their own with the exception of a few mistakes, and the Dutch made them pay for those mistakes.

In the next cycle you should have Pulisic, Aaronson, Reyna, Dest, McKinnie, Musa, Weah, Robinson, and Adams all in the prime of their careers. Couple that with a GK who should be starting on a top level European club, and you will have a very talented roster. Do you think GGG should be that guy ushering them into that next WC, on home soil? I know its beating a dead horse, but I no longer want to see guys like Zimmerman, Morris, Acosta, Wright, Ferrera, and Long take away minutes from guys who are flat out better and play against better competition year round. I mean good lord where would this club have been had a 35 year old Tim Ream step up and have a very good World Cup?

I want to see a coach who challenges players to face the best competition they can. I have no issue with starting your career in the MLS, its a fun brand of soccer to watch. But when you have the opportunity to go overseas, you have to capitalize on that. For example, Brandon Vasquez is a fun player to watch at FCC, and probably should have gotten a better shot to make the USMNT this WC, but the USMNT should strongly encourage him to head to Europe to improve his game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Van Gaal is a heck of a coach, and he coached circles around Berhalter. The US held their own with the exception of a few mistakes, and the Dutch made them pay for those mistakes.

In the next cycle you should have Pulisic, Aaronson, Reyna, Dest, McKinnie, Musa, Weah, Robinson, and Adams all in the prime of their careers. Couple that with a GK who should be starting on a top level European club, and you will have a very talented roster. Do you think GGG should be that guy ushering them into that next WC, on home soil? I know its beating a dead horse, but I no longer want to see guys like Zimmerman, Morris, Acosta, Wright, Ferrera, and Long take away minutes from guys who are flat out better and play against better competition year round. I mean good lord where would this club have been had a 35 year old Tim Ream step up and have a very good World Cup?

I want to see a coach who challenges players to face the best competition they can. I have no issue with starting your career in the MLS, its a fun brand of soccer to watch. But when you have the opportunity to go overseas, you have to capitalize on that. For example, Brandon Vasquez is a fun player to watch at FCC, and probably should have gotten a better shot to make the USMNT this WC, but the USMNT should strongly encourage him to head to Europe to improve his game.

There is a balance towards the whole “challenging the players” thing. Kilnsman did that and he was an absolutely horrendous coach who had no idea what he was doing and all the players hated.

I think the hate for Greggg is over the top. He’s done a good job and produced actual results and won trophies. But I don’t really want him to be the coach anymore. I’m fine if he wants to stay on through next summer, but it sounds like we are playing in the Copa in 2024 and we should have someone new for that and into the 2026 WC. I actually think top 8 there would be a bit of a failure. Four years is a long time, but our top guys now are going to be hitting their primes, we don’t have to cycle out anyone important and we are hosting which is a massive advantage.

My first call would be Roberto Martinez.

[bucksfan2]

There is a balance towards the whole “challenging the players” thing. Kilnsman did that and he was an absolutely horrendous coach who had no idea what he was doing and all the players hated.

I think the hate for Greggg is over the top. He’s done a good job and produced actual results and won trophies. But I don’t really want him to be the coach anymore. I’m fine if he wants to stay on through next summer, but it sounds like we are playing in the Copa in 2024 and we should have someone new for that and into the 2026 WC. I actually think top 8 there would be a bit of a failure. Four years is a long time, but our top guys now are going to be hitting their primes, we don’t have to cycle out anyone important and we are hosting which is a massive advantage.

My first call would be Roberto Martinez.

2018 was a failure of epic proportion. When you look back at it, could it have been a team in transition, where most of the successful players from the 2014 WC (and even 2010) were older and the younger generation just wasn't there yet.

Maybe I am naïve, but the absolute minimum of the USMNT should be to qualify for the World Cup. The investment and talent pool is the best (or second best to Mexico) in CONCACAF. When you look what Greggg did, is exactly what they should do. Did they overachieve at all? Is making the knock out stage something we shouldn't expect? Especially after the draw they got? So yea Greggg did a decent job, he took probably the most talented USMNT team of all time to the same place they were in 2010 and 2014 and then was out coached by Van Gaal.

I would have loved to see Roberto Martinez as the US coach, I do wonder if the shine is off him after Belgium's performance?

I think you need to have everything set going into the 2024 Copa tournament. It would have to be a pretty enticing job with all the young talent coming of age.

[BuckeyeRed27]

2018 was a failure of epic proportion. When you look back at it, could it have been a team in transition, where most of the successful players from the 2014 WC (and even 2010) were older and the younger generation just wasn't there yet.

Maybe I am naïve, but the absolute minimum of the USMNT should be to qualify for the World Cup. The investment and talent pool is the best (or second best to Mexico) in CONCACAF. When you look what Greggg did, is exactly what they should do. Did they overachieve at all? Is making the knock out stage something we shouldn't expect? Especially after the draw they got? So yea Greggg did a decent job, he took probably the most talented USMNT team of all time to the same place they were in 2010 and 2014 and then was out coached by Van Gaal.

I would have loved to see Roberto Martinez as the US coach, I do wonder if the shine is off him after Belgium's performance?

I think you need to have everything set going into the 2024 Copa tournament. It would have to be a pretty enticing job with all the young talent coming of age.

Getting out of the group is generally going to be considered a success for most teams outside of 5 or 6. Gregg has been successful in the sense he completed a successful rebuild and he did it right away. It wasn’t always pretty, but he did it. We have a young, talented, legit team now to launch into what is a very important 2026 tournament.

I’m not sure Gregg was outcoached by Van Gaal as much as the US was simply out experienced by the Netherlands. Thought the approach and tactics were fine, but if you make mistakes against a team like that, they are going to absolutely punish you…and they did. Chalk that more up to a lesson those guys hopefully learn.

[Betterread]

Through Berhalter’s stewardship, we know we have a GK and a midfield that are world class. Now we need world class defenders and forwards/ attacking mids.
For wing defenders, we have a few possible options, leading with Dest. For central defenders, we are really fortunate Ream played out of his mind, and I give Berhalter credit for playing him. But he’s old. We need to find few new good central defenders.
For forwards, Berhalter never found guys who could score. Pulisic was already a factor. Berhalter has no clue about attacking soccer and attacking soccer players. He never unlocked Reyna or Aronson’s gifts. He didn’t even play them much. And as a result we missed having creative players and we needed more from that area.
And he started Ferreira, who was Pepi’s backup, and never selected Pepi. This made no sense. And of course it didn’t work. Pepi has great potential and could be one of the answers for 2026, but he needs to continue to improve and he needs nurturing. Ferreira is what he is, a good MLS player, nothing more.
We don’t need someone who is good at running a qualifying compaign (which Berhalter gets credit for ) because we co-host the tournament.
We need to experiment with players to find the right players and right tactics for those players. I just don’t see Berhalter as being good at that.

[M2]

Croatia's midfield is a joy to watch. Brazil probably will win this game, but Croatia effortlessly bypasses high pressure and lines of defense.

[M2]

That Brazil goal was your typical double wall pass, deke the keeper, bury it in the roof effort. Croatia forced Brazil to do something outrageous to score, and then it did. Also, Neymar is now tied with Pele as Brazil's all-time top goal scorer.

UPDATE: And then Croatia strikes back! The whole movement started with Luka Modric on the ball in his defensive end with a guy draped all over him, managing somehow to turn upfield and then hitting a line-breaking pass.

[Betterread]

Wow! Historic win for Croatia. How do you top beating Brazil in the quarterfinals? Man they are good at penalties. I always thought Brazil were the best Pk takers. I feel so bad for Marquinhos. He is an awesome player and person.
Today, Croatia was a punching bag that punched back.

[Betterread]

That Brazil goal was your typical double wall pass, deke the keeper, bury it in the roof effort. Croatia forced Brazil to do something outrageous to score, and then it did. Also, Neymar is now tied with Pele as Brazil's all-time top goal scorer.

UPDATE: And then Croatia strikes back! The whole movement started with Luka Modric on the ball in his defensive end with a guy draped all over him, managing somehow to turn upfield and then hitting a line-breaking pass.

It was two passes before the goal, but it was the hardest and most important one. Casemiro was holding him with both hands around his waist but Modric waited for Vlasic to get open, but he was covered, so Modric played him open. His pass came first, and vlasic moved to it. It was sublime. And everything opened up after it.

[M2]

It was two passes before the goal, but it was the hardest and most important one. Casemiro was holding him with both hands around his waist but Modric waited for Vlasic to get open, but he was covered, so Modric played him open. His pass came first, and vlasic moved to it. It was sublime. And everything opened up after it.

It's Luka Modric's planet. We just live on it.

[M2]

Epic comeback by the Dutch in the 101st minute. The way they used their previous free kick to set up the one that tied the game (passing it under the wall) was brilliant.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wow! The balls to bust out the training ground set piece on the last kick of the game!

[BuckeyeRed27]

That was just a fantastic sporting event.

[M2]

Today's lesson: make sure you bury that first PK.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Today's lesson: make sure you bury that first PK.

Those first 2 saves were legit.

[M2]

Those first 2 saves were legit.

Oh, for sure. Just saying that making that first PK makes a huge difference.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Oh, for sure. Just saying that making that first PK makes a huge difference.

Also what is Argentina doing rolling out the 21 year old on kick 4 when Di Maria is standing there? Got away with it but man.

[Betterread]

Also what is Argentina doing rolling out the 21 year old on kick 4 when Di Maria is standing there? Got away with it but man.

Well, he hit the post with a laser before the end of extra time, so maybe the thinking was that this time he would hit the inside of the post.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Well, he hit the post with a laser before the end of extra time, so maybe the thinking was that this time he would hit the inside of the post.

I knew he was going to miss it immediately. He looked terrified.

[Betterread]

Some serious trash talking here. Doesn’t just happen in the USA.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/12/09/multimedia/09world-cup-argentina-netherlands-jube-1-7e55/09world-cup-argentina-netherlands-jube-1-7e55-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp

[texasdave]

Why wasn't the Argentine player ejected from the game immediately after kicking the ball into the opposition bench?

[Betterread]

Why wasn't the Argentine player ejected from the game immediately after kicking the ball into the opposition bench?

The ref gave him a break. He probably thought Van Dijk’s body slam knocking him to the ground was sufficient punishment. “The red mist” surrounded him and clouded his mind. Anyone that’s played soccer has had it happen at one time. Global superstars like Pepe, Sergio Ramos and Daniele DeRossi seemed to have ventilators filled with it.

[kaldaniels]

The death of Grant Wahl is going to be a very big deal…

[RedTeamGo!]

Oh my god I can’t believe Grant Wahl died. Sounds like foul play. This is bad.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I’m just stunned. Grant Wahl played no small part in how I got into and followed soccer. I met him a couple times and he couldn’t have been nicer.

Apparently he collapsed in the press box during ET of the Argentina game. He’s been sick this week and mentioned on his pod yesterday he had seen a doctor for possible bronchitis. Still only 48 years old…really hope there isn’t foul play here….

[BuckeyeRed27]

What a freaking strike to put France up early

[BuckeyeRed27]

Brutal loss for England. Better team for sure, but cannot make mistakes against France.

[M2]

They're going home.

[Betterread]

England had a pretty good squad and played a good game. Needed to make both penalties, though. I still like the 1990 group better with Lineker and Gascoigne.
France was lucky (Deschamps even said it) to advance. The midfield is a shambles, the griezmann experiment should stop and did I see Dembele playing defensive mid? How can they fail to get the ball to Mbappe so much?
Spicy semifinal coming up with France and former (and also Spanish) colony Morocco. If France wins two successive WCs that would make them historic.

[BuckeyeRed27]

England had a pretty good squad and played a good game. Needed to make both penalties, though. I still like the 1990 group better with Lineker and Gascoigne.
France was lucky (Deschamps even said it) to advance. The midfield is a shambles, the griezmann experiment should stop and did I see Dembele playing defensive mid? How can they fail to get the ball to Mbappe so much?
Spicy semifinal coming up with France and former (and also Spanish) colony Morocco. If France wins two successive WCs that would make them historic.

The Mbappe thing was wild to me. France has the best player in the world and several others that are in the top 50 and their tactics seemed to be same as when Costa Rica plays the US. Just bonkers. I guess they got away with it, but it made no sense.

[M2]

The Mbappe thing was wild to me. France has the best player in the world and several others that are in the top 50 and their tactics seemed to be same as when Costa Rica plays the US. Just bonkers. I guess they got away with it, but it made no sense.

A few thoughts:

- You have to give some credit to the English players for derailing the French flow. Declan Rice had a very good game and Kyle Walker consistently kept Mbappe in front of him long enough for help to arrive.

- Some of what France did was tactical. Clearly Deschamps thought he'd be able to use France's speed to counter once England had to extend itself and hunt a tying goal. France was much better when it pushed the England back and tried to play in to Giroud. A few things affected the French on not being able to execute on the counter. First, neither of the wing backs could spring into attack. Theo did a little bit and they did the right thing by having him overlap with Mbappe later in the game. Hard to blame Kounde for not being a great attacker as he's a center back by trade. Then there was Giroud, who is an excellent in-the-box target man, but he's not a center forward who gets the ball at his feet and goes past defenders. Deschamps was acting like he had Benzema out there. Finally, they kept outletting to Dembele and he was a dead end.

- I cannot explain why Deschamps didn't set up his team to attack down the right and expose Luke Shaw (like the U.S. did repeatedly). Shaw's a glaring hole and beating him is how you create foot races with England's ponderous center backs. Seems like Pavard was the right back for the job in this game. And maybe deploy Mbappe down the right at times so he can blow the doors off of Shaw. Camavinga also might have introduced another ball-carrying threat in the middle, which Griezmann did with some success. Most of all, when Dembele by himself wasn't getting the done, they should have shifted tactics.

- Though I wouldn't knock France too much because I didn't think England created great chances outside of its penalties and France did produce two well-worked goals (and well-taken for the first one). Seemed a bit similar to the U.S.-Netherlands game to me where the U.S. had the run of play, but Netherlands had the quality to produce goals. The "disappointment" with France is it only hunted the goals it needed rather than all the goals it might have had. Yet maybe that conserves some energy in their bank for Morocco and potentially the final.

[Betterread]

A few thoughts:

- You have to give some credit to the English players for derailing the French flow. Declan Rice had a very good game and Kyle Walker consistently kept Mbappe in front of him long enough for help to arrive.

- Some of what France did was tactical. Clearly Deschamps thought he'd be able to use France's speed to counter once England had to extend itself and hunt a tying goal. France was much better when it pushed the England back and tried to play in to Giroud. A few things affected the French on not being able to execute on the counter. First, neither of the wing backs could spring into attack. Theo did a little bit and they did the right thing by having him overlap with Mbappe later in the game. Hard to blame Kounde for not being a great attacker as he's a center back by trade. Then there was Giroud, who is an excellent in-the-box target man, but he's not a center forward who gets the ball at his feet and goes past defenders. Deschamps was acting like he had Benzema out there. Finally, they kept outletting to Dembele and he was a dead end.

- I cannot explain why Deschamps didn't set up his team to attack down the right and expose Luke Shaw (like the U.S. did repeatedly). Shaw's a glaring hole and beating him is how you create foot races with England's ponderous center backs. Seems like Pavard was the right back for the job in this game. And maybe deploy Mbappe down the right at times so he can blow the doors off of Shaw. Camavinga also might have introduced another ball-carrying threat in the middle, which Griezmann did with some success. Most of all, when Dembele by himself wasn't getting the done, they should have shifted tactics.

- Though I wouldn't knock France too much because I didn't think England created great chances outside of its penalties and France did produce two well-worked goals (and well-taken for the first one). Seemed a bit similar to the U.S.-Netherlands game to me where the U.S. had the run of play, but Netherlands had the quality to produce goals. The "disappointment" with France is it only hunted the goals it needed rather than all the goals it might have had. Yet maybe that conserves some energy in their bank for Morocco and potentially the final.

Britain didn’t create great chances? British got behind France’s defense and were one v one with Lloris twice without a good finish. Kane in the first half and Saka in the second. And there were a few open headers with McGuire closest.
And no mention at all of how Bellingham ran their midfield? He was the best midfielder in the game.

[M2]

Britain didn’t create great chances? British got behind France’s defense and were one v one with Lloris twice without a good finish. Kane in the first half and Saka in the second. And there were a few open headers with McGuire closest.
And no mention at all of how Bellingham ran their midfield? He was the best midfielder in the game.

I wasn't that impressed with Bellingham. His workrate was fine, but one total chance created (0 big changes) and zero successful line breaking dribbles for a xA (expected assists) of 0.05. Rice, with much more effective passing and consistently winning balls in the middle, was the superior middie for England (IMO). And I thought both of those 1v1s were going to take a pretty exceptional finish to net a goal. As they were happening I didn't expect them to score. The space was tight for both of those finishes.

Lloris played well, but that was because he was seeing the shots. Kind of like Courtois in the CL finals this year. England didn't have the quality evident in Tchouameni's finish or Griezmann's cross. That seemed to me to be the difference. England needed an extra half second or half foot than it got on its chances. Plus, France seemed able to get a goal when it needed one. The French seemed committed to doing just enough to win.

[texasdave]

If you could make one change to the game of soccer (the game and not anything peripheral) what would it be?

[BuckeyeRed27]

If you could make one change to the game of soccer (the game and not anything peripheral) what would it be?

Offside should be like an illegal forward pass in football. The entire man should have to be past the last defender, not just any part.

[MWM]

If you could make one change to the game of soccer (the game and not anything peripheral) what would it be?

Get rid of diving. Period. I hate it so much.

Other than that, I’d like to see obstruction become illegal….once upon a time it may have been. I think guys should have to be playing the ball. I really dislike when one player boxes out another going for the ball. Make them play the ball.

[M2]

Offside should be like an illegal forward pass in football. The entire man should have to be past the last defender, not just any part.

Yep, I'm for a complete separation rule. Also would be for a rule that eliminated offside for player who receives the ball in an onside position and plays his first touch backward. I hate it when someone gets called offside for making a wall pass.

[Betterread]

If you could make one change to the game of soccer (the game and not anything peripheral) what would it be?

5 (or 10 at least) seconds for throwins, like basketball. If you don’t meet the time limit, possession switches to the other team. It would limit time wasting.

[Chip R]

Looks like the mystery of the lack of playing time for Renya has been solved.

https://www.espnfc.com/united-states-usa/story/4830953/usa-midfielder-giovanni-reyna-almost-sent-home-from-world-cup

[westofyou]

Get rid of diving. Period. I hate it so much.

Other than that, I’d like to see obstruction become illegal….once upon a time it may have been. I think guys should have to be playing the ball. I really dislike when one player boxes out another going for the ball. Make them play the ball.

Diving is so related to the lack of scoring in the game and the impact of set plays. If the game could increase scoring chances outside of set plays then we might see a decrease in diving, but as long as the set play is the most generous chance to score diving will persist. More video and harsher acceptance might temper it but it's a money play now.

[BenchRider]

Get rid of diving. Period. I hate it so much.


Yes it has gone too far now. Just make it a yellow card and reviewable by the league for a fine. They have already done that in the NBA.

[Betterread]

Looks like the mystery of the lack of playing time for Renya has been solved.

https://www.espnfc.com/united-states-usa/story/4830953/usa-midfielder-giovanni-reyna-almost-sent-home-from-world-cup

You mean it shows Berhalter’s bias - to punish, instead of explain to, a player. Reyna is 20. Acting immaturely is not a surprise. It is certainly not good for the team and definitely selfish. It tells you something about him.
But for a coach to rationalize his playing time decisions (it’s not only Reyna’s lack of time Berhalter has gotten wrong) on one individual and one example of emotional immaturity is manipulative.
Being manipulative as a coach is normal so I am not condemning Berhalter for this. He’s explaining why he thinks he is right, totally right about his World Cup team’s performance. It is also certainly not good for the team and definitely selfish. It tells you something about him.
Instead of keeping his big mouth shut, Berhalter felt the need to talk. So he made both himself and Reyna look equally selfish.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Honestly I’m more concerned that Greggg had already decided BEFORE the tournament that Gio wasn’t gonna really play.

It’s not great that it got out and I do think this should probably keep him from getting a new contract. But just deciding you aren’t going to use one of your most talented players before they start kicking the ball is pretty rough.

[M2]

Honestly I’m more concerned that Greggg had already decided BEFORE the tournament that Gio wasn’t gonna really play.

It’s not great that it got out and I do think this should probably keep him from getting a new contract. But just deciding you aren’t going to use one of your most talented players before they start kicking the ball is pretty rough.

And isn't the job of a manager to get that player in line? Like, it seems to be a story about Berhalter either didn't do, or didn't bother to do, his job.

[RedTeamGo!]

Yup, time to move on from Greggg

[M2]

I assume neutral fans are rooting for Croatia and Morocco in the semifinals, but after Argentina did a full heel turn against the Dutch I'm figuring people are rooting extra hard for Croatia today.

[RedTeamGo!]

I assume neutral fans are rooting for Croatia and Morocco in the semifinals, but after Argentina did a full heel turn against the Dutch, I'm figuring people are rooting extra hard for Croatia today.

I will be rooting my dirty eastern euro cousins for sure

[BuckeyeRed27]

I’m rooting for Messi.

Obviously rooting for Morocco, but don’t see that ending well.

[M2]

I will be rooting my dirty eastern euro cousins for sure

See? Even Serbs are rooting for the Croats. BTW, Yugoslavia possibly could have a couple of World Cups in the early editions of the tournament if it could have figured out how to get the Serbs and Croats to play together.

[M2]

I’m rooting for Messi.

Does he need anyone rooting for him if he gets to use his hands?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2022-argentinas-lionel-messi-action-781953464-2.jpg

[BuckeyeRed27]

Does he need anyone rooting for him if he gets to use his hands?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2022-argentinas-lionel-messi-action-781953464-2.jpg

It’s good to be king.

[westofyou]

See? Even Serbs are rooting for the Croats. BTW, Yugoslavia possibly could have a couple of World Cups in the early editions of the tournament if it could have figured out how to get the Serbs and Croats to play together.

Yeah that wasn't going to happen (getting along) but during the The Bosnian War I caught Nirvana and a bunch of others playing a benefit in San Francisco at the Cow Palace, highlight of the show was L7 (IMO)

[M2]

Croatia's got the better midfield and it's not very close. Argentina's going to have to play direct and look for spots. They're not going to boss the ball.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Messi with a cold blooded penalty.
Alvarez with a coast to coast run.
Croatia needs half time.

[M2]

Everybody's talking about the Alvarez run for the 2nd goal, but that was down to some weird bounces. The Messi dribble and assist for the 3rd goal was pure filth.

[texasdave]

Why doesn't the player who gets fouled in the penalty area have to take the penalty kick? That seems reasonable to me.

[MWM]

The Messi dribble and assist for the 3rd goal was pure filth.

And it's not like Gvardiol is some slouch.

[RedTeamGo!]

If one team can stop Messi and Argentina right now it is France, but Messi has a look in his eye like this is it. I will be wearing my Messi Argentina jersey I purchased 16 years ago in Koln, Germany at the World Cup on Sunday. I had a feeling he was going to be an all timer when he was 18-19 years old and a win on Sunday will solidify him as the GOAT.

[MWM]

GOAT in this sport has always felt a little like baseball, where it's really who is #2 behind Babe Ruth. It would be hard for me to ever put someone above Pele when you look at the gap between him and his peers of the day.

[westofyou]

Why doesn't the player who gets fouled in the penalty area have to take the penalty kick? That seems reasonable to me.

Again, because scoring is so rare, the game makes allowances to assure scoring can actually occur by allowing teams to dictate who gets the shot.

[BuckeyeRed27]

https://www.npr.org/2022/12/14/1142647682/grant-wahl-autopsy-world-cup-qatar

Grant Wahl died of an aortic aneurysm.

[RedTeamGo!]

France is so loaded I forgot Paul Pogba existed

[MWM]

Man, Mbappe has become about as bad as Neymar at falling down when he’s not even touched. He’s such a likable guy otherwise. I wish he would stop.

[M2]

I keep getting the distinct sense that France is only doing as much as it has to in order to progress. Are they the new Italy?

[Betterread]

I keep getting the distinct sense that France is only doing as much as it has to in order to progress. Are they the new Italy?

I have the same observation. But the comparison to Italy? That’s weird. Argentina has the Italian imprint. On so many levels. But the Argentina grinta, the speed of their counterattacking is like thunder to the Gentle Tuscan showers current Italia displays.
No. France is different. They feature more speed, more skill, more inspiration. They are Brazilian, but still something else.
Mbappe is bored a lot. He wants more of a challenge. Like a WC final. I predict he will go crazy in the final.

[M2]

I have the same observation. But the comparison to Italy? That’s weird. Argentina has the Italian imprint. On so many levels. But the Argentina grinta, the speed of their counterattacking is like thunder to the Gentle Tuscan showers current Italia displays.
No. France is different. They feature more speed, more skill, more inspiration. They are Brazilian, but still something else.
Mbappe is bored a lot. He wants more of a challenge. Like a WC final. I predict he will go crazy in the final.

Stylistically they're very different. I was thinking in terms of game management, especially in controlling the space more than the ball. France budgets its energy very well. I thinking along the same lines as your prediction.

[bucksfan2]

I have the same observation. But the comparison to Italy? That’s weird. Argentina has the Italian imprint. On so many levels. But the Argentina grinta, the speed of their counterattacking is like thunder to the Gentle Tuscan showers current Italia displays.
No. France is different. They feature more speed, more skill, more inspiration. They are Brazilian, but still something else.
Mbappe is bored a lot. He wants more of a challenge. Like a WC final. I predict he will go crazy in the final.

I find it fascinating that the best two players on the pitch will have to rely on their teammates to get them the balls. I always thought that big time tournaments are won/loss in the midfield. I guess we will see how that plays out Sunday.

[RedTeamGo!]

Argentina wins 2-1

[Boston Red]

Questions for the soccer fans: do people actually care about the third place game at the World Cup? Most events (other than the Olympics where you get the bronze medal game) have eliminated consolation games like this third place game, so I was wondering if it's actually considered a big deal to win the third place game.

[RedTeamGo!]

I find it fascinating that the best two players on the pitch will have to rely on their teammates to get them the balls. I always thought that big time tournaments are won/loss in the midfield. I guess we will see how that plays out Sunday.

People say this about Messi a lot and I feel like I am watching a different player than them. Against Croatia he got the ball around the middle of the field on a throw-in and dribbled it all the way around 5 defenders all the way to the side of the goal and made a perfect pass to Alvaraz for the goal.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Questions for the soccer fans: do people actually care about the third place game at the World Cup? Most events (other than the Olympics where you get the bronze medal game) have eliminated consolation games like this third place game, so I was wondering if it's actually considered a big deal to win the third place game.

It’s not that big of a deal.

[Betterread]

Questions for the soccer fans: do people actually care about the third place game at the World Cup? Most events (other than the Olympics where you get the bronze medal game) have eliminated consolation games like this third place game, so I was wondering if it's actually considered a big deal to win the third place game.

It depends on what national team you follow as a fan.
For most countries, finishing third is a historic accomplishment. Canada and Mexico have never finished third.

The USMNT finished 3rd in 1930, beating Yugoslavia, which is still the team’s highest WC finish and the only time a national team from outside CONMEBOL or UEFA has finished third.
So for Morocco, it would be a historic win.

It has a practical component as well. It affects national team rankings which impacts seeding for the next competition your team competes in. It also affects club team rankings (to a lesser extent, but still some impact) so it affects seeding for all the competitions that clubs from that country competes.
And seeding makes a difference. Look at how it helped the US in this year’s WC.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It depends on what national team you follow as a fan.
For most countries, finishing third is a historic accomplishment. Canada and Mexico have never finished third.

The USMNT finished 3rd in 1930, beating Yugoslavia, which is still the team’s highest WC finish and the only time a national team from outside CONMEBOL or UEFA has finished third.
So for Morocco, it would be a historic win.

That’s a good point. It would be a big deal for Morocco.

[Betterread]

It’s not that big of a deal.

Just like Northwestern’s football program…..or OSU’s academic reputation.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Just like Northwestern’s football program…..or OSU’s academic reputation.

I think 1985 called looking for your jokes.

[M2]

Questions for the soccer fans: do people actually care about the third place game at the World Cup? Most events (other than the Olympics where you get the bronze medal game) have eliminated consolation games like this third place game, so I was wondering if it's actually considered a big deal to win the third place game.

I don't know how deeply people care about it (probably runs the spectrum), but it's usually a good game. Neither team has anything to lose, so they tend to come out and play a pretty entertaining brand of footie.

[M2]

Apparently Morocco watched a different game than the semifinal I saw. They've submitted a formal protest (which will go nowhere) claiming they should have been awarded two penalties and demanding the game be replayed (which won't happen).

[westofyou]

I don't know how deeply people care about it (probably runs the spectrum), but it's usually a good game. Neither team has anything to lose, so they tend to come out and play a pretty entertaining brand of footie.

Being #3 in the world transcends club football mind sets, the game matters because it could be factored in the world rankings later

[Kingspoint]

In the Blazers' post-game interview after their win vs San Antonio, Winslow and Hart didn't answer any questions about the game and instead gave their opinions on the World Cup and who they thought would win next. It was pretty cool.

[Betterread]

Croatia wins third place. Gets a few million for their troubles, gets some young players a one in a lifetime experience and, hopefully, gets out of Quatar alive. Nothing wrong with visiting a unique place, with lots of scary laws and customs, and then coming home with a renewed sense of pride in your country.

[ScotlandRed]

Messi ����

[BuckeyeRed27]

I’d say that second goal should be in the Louvre, but that might just be rubbing salt in the wound.

[M2]

Expert con job by Di Maria (dive, then reach back for contact) for the penalty. I've seen him do it a lot. League refs get used to his antics and don't give him that call, but it's new for the Polish ref in this game.

Doesn't really matter as Argentina are playing France off the pitch outside of that.

[Chip R]

Doesn't really matter as Argentina are playing France off the pitch outside of that.

I think there needs to be a missing person's report put out on Mbappe.

[westofyou]

Expert con job by Di Maria (dive, then reach back for contact) for the penalty. I've seen him do it a lot. League refs get used to his antics and don't give him that call, but it's new for the Polish ref in this game.

Doesn't really matter as Argentina are playing France off the pitch outside of that.

Tenacious football by Argentina, attacking the space and the ball in a manner that France can't match

[westofyou]

Then they leave the door cracked open

[Chip R]

Well, look who showed up

[M2]

I think there needs to be a missing person's report put out on Mbappe.

They found him.

[westofyou]

Stunning three minutes

[M2]

Coman and Camavinga have changed the energy level since they've come on.

[BuckeyeRed27]

They can put that Mbappe goal in the Louvre though!

[Roy Tucker]

What the hell.

[RedTeamGo!]

Ughhhhhhhhhhh

[M2]

What the hell.

The momentum swings in this sport are severe.

[Roy Tucker]

Wow. What ebb and flow both ways.

[Chip R]

What a save on that shot by Messi.

[Roy Tucker]

Dang. We have 1 pm theater tickets. Gotta run.

[westofyou]

The momentum swings in this sport are severe.

There is nothing more powerful (and painful) than a momentum swing in the back n forth sports than one in a championship game, it's the highest of highs and the lowest of lows

[BuckeyeRed27]

Dang. We have 1 pm theater tickets. Gotta run.

The movie will play again in 3 hours.

[westofyou]

The movie will play again in 3 hours.

I believe it's live theater

[BuckeyeRed27]

I believe it's live theater

Hmm that’s tougher. I’m sure the show is in New York.

[SteelSD]

Usually, no one could pay me enough to watch soccer.

But a World Cup final in extra time with Messi and Mbappe? Yeah, I'll watch that.

[M2]

This game.

[RedTeamGo!]

Greatest soccer match in history?

[Chip R]

And we go to PKs.

[SteelSD]

And we go to PKs.

That, I hate. For cripes sake, play on. Grrrr...

[paintmered]

Incredible match.

[RedTeamGo!]

Honestly, sports other than soccer suck

[Betterread]

Great game. Congratulations Argentina. Got their tactics right, and kept France in check for a long time, until they got tired.
Not a big fan of les bleus (way too much talent, so unfair) but I rooted for them. Argentina played at the edge of the rules all game. They knew the ref was yellow card averse. He let so many little things go. dirty cheap things.
God, now the hype for Messi will reach unbelievable levels. He played good and impacted the game, but the Croatia performance was better.
Mbappe is way better and he showed it today. He scored three and should have had two assists on perfect crosses for point blank headers that were missed.

[Betterread]

They can put that Mbappe goal in the Louvre though!

None or Barely any 20th or 21st century visual arts in the Louvre and Musee d’Orsay is the big 19th-century arts museum. The big 20th-century arts museums are Centre Pompidou and the Musée d’Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris.
The Louvre is centered on “old” art. Definitely doesn’t have much African or other colonial painting.

[RedTeamGo!]

None or Barely any 20th or 21st century visual arts in the Louvre and Musee d’Orsay is the big 19th-century arts museum. The big 20th-century arts museums are Centre Pompidou and the Musée d’Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris.
The Louvre is centered on “old” art. Definitely doesn’t have much African or other colonial painting.

Please tell me this is a joke

[Roy Tucker]

Hmm that’s tougher. I’m sure the show is in New York.

@Aronoff for Jesus Christ Superstar. Last time I listened to it was in the early 80’s.

Followed on my phone before the show. I’ll watch the replay tonight.

[BuckeyeRed27]

@Aronoff for Jesus Christ Superstar. Last time I listened to it was in the early 80’s.

Followed on my phone before the show. I’ll watch the replay tonight.

Mbappe played the lead in that today.

Enjoy it’s a good show.

[SunDeck]

Greatest soccer match in history?
I cannot recall watching a more thrilling game, much less a WC final.

[M2]

I cannot recall watching a more thrilling game, much less a WC final.

Yeah, that was absurdly dramatic.

Though after this and 2006, France is going to lobby hard to get rid of the penalty shootout.

[bucksfan2]

Yeah, that was absurdly dramatic.

Though after this and 2006, France is going to lobby hard to get rid of the penalty shootout.

What do you do then? Those players are completely gassed in extra time. Extra time is actually fun to watch because it opens up a bit because everyone is so tired. You can't keep playing when half the people on the pitch can't play.

Argentina's GK was fantastic in PK's, but I could do away with him trying intimidate the PK taker by coming out to the PK spot.

I did find it somewhat disappointing when France got the late PK in the 2nd extra period and Argentina went and tried to scuff up the PK spot.

[M2]

What do you do then? Those players are completely gassed in extra time. Extra time is actually fun to watch because it opens up a bit because everyone is so tired. You can't keep playing when half the people on the pitch can't play.

Argentina's GK was fantastic in PK's, but I could do away with him trying intimidate the PK taker by coming out to the PK spot.

I did find it somewhat disappointing when France got the late PK in the 2nd extra period and Argentina went and tried to scuff up the PK spot.

I agree with you about there being limits to human endurance. Maybe you toss that out for a final and go golden goal after the 30 minutes of OT (with new subs allowed too). Yet it's definitely got drawbacks no matter how you'd structure it. I'm just saying France probably would like to see it no matter what the drawbacks are, having lost two of the last five WCs in a shootout.

Argentina definitely went full heel. They've always been on the edge of nasty. Like Betterread was saying, they push the envelope every chance they get. On top of the PK nonsense they all have a roundhouse kick/punch move. If the ref says anything they plead innocence and it was pure coincidence that they whacked an opposing player for the dozenth time. There's also boot scrapes and foot stomps. On top of that, they rarely miss a chance to dive. Di Maria absolutely dove to win the first penalty. I'll note Thuram tried a similar dive in OT and got a yellow for it. Di Maria is much better at it. I'm actually a Di Maria fan. Spectacular player, but he's a weasel.

Oh, and their trash talking was pretty epic too. Basically, it was like Razor Ramon won the Royal Rumble.

https://ontapsportsnet.com/.image/c_fit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_620/MTkwOTE2NDM5MDM3NjUwMzEz/entrance.gif

[westofyou]

What do you do then? Those players are completely gassed in extra time. Extra time is actually fun to watch because it opens up a bit because everyone is so tired. You can't keep playing when half the people on the pitch can't play.

Argentina's GK was fantastic in PK's, but I could do away with him trying intimidate the PK taker by coming out to the PK spot.

I did find it somewhat disappointing when France got the late PK in the 2nd extra period and Argentina went and tried to scuff up the PK spot.

I don't think that the game is set up for the rigors of an overtime that goes on on on. The body can't take it. I remember when I played how gassed I was at the end of regulation play at every level and I recall HS games that I basically crawled from the shower to my bed. Now amp that up 1000 times and people will be dropping.

I do think the goalie should stay in the goal mouth, the looming over a guy stuff is too MMA for me.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think for the final at least having golden goal with no PKs would be better and more dramatic too. Let them have more subs or whatever, maybe even let them bring guys back on after a certain point.

[bucksfan2]

I think for the final at least having golden goal with no PKs would be better and more dramatic too. Let them have more subs or whatever, maybe even let them bring guys back on after a certain point.

I don't know, I find the extra period rather exciting. But towards the end it really ends up both teams trying to counter hoping for one opportunity.

PK's are always talked about at the WC. Every. Single. One. You hear non soccer fans talk about how the game is boring, ties, how PK's are a bad way to end it, etc.

But how could you not love these PK's. You had Mbappe going for his third PK of the day. Both France and Argentina had their bets PK taker going first, both making their kicks. Both had some of their better takers on the bench after being subbed out. You had the best two players in the tournament, Messi and Mbappe standing there doing everything they could have done.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I don't know, I find the extra period rather exciting. But towards the end it really ends up both teams trying to counter hoping for one opportunity.

PK's are always talked about at the WC. Every. Single. One. You hear non soccer fans talk about how the game is boring, ties, how PK's are a bad way to end it, etc.

But how could you not love these PK's. You had Mbappe going for his third PK of the day. Both France and Argentina had their bets PK taker going first, both making their kicks. Both had some of their better takers on the bench after being subbed out. You had the best two players in the tournament, Messi and Mbappe standing there doing everything they could have done.

I don’t mind them in general and they are dramatic and there is strategy involved. I would keep them for the rest of the tournament.

In the final though, I would prefer it ended playing soccer. Golden goal with no PK shifts the strategy to be significantly more offensive in extra time. It’s also way more dramatic, basically like playoff hockey, where it can end at any second.

[MWM]

They need to go back to the golden goal.

[M2]

They need to go back to the golden goal.

Ended up being highly tactical with teams playing safe and looking to counter each other. It can favor bunkering.

[Chip R]

The thing about PKs is that while they are dramatic, I think they tend to lend themselves to teams not going for a win either in regulation or extra time. They will just leave it to PKs. But I understand how exhausted these guys are after 120 minutes of play. And PKs are good TV in a sport that desperately needs more U.S. eyes watching the sport.

[SunDeck]

I'd be fine with, say, one 10 minute OT, played full, then subsequent golden goal periods until a winner, with no limits on subs. That would at least allow some acknowledgement of how taxing even 90 minutes is.

Coincidentally, I might rate another Argentina win - 1986 over W. Germany- as the second best game I've seen.