2023 NFL Draft Thread

[WVRed]

Figured we could use a thread to discuss the upcoming draft with the order set except for playoff teams.

Jalen Carter or Will Anderson look like they will be the first pick unless the Bears trade down (they should). Whoever doesn’t will probably end up at Arizona at 3.

Bryce Young and CJ Stroud will likely be in Houston or Indianapolis at 2 and 4. The question is which goes where.

[Sea Ray]

Might Seattle package their 1st rd picks and move up to snag a QB?

[WVRed]

Might Seattle package their 1st rd picks and move up to snag a QB?

Could argue that for Detroit as well but I think they are sold on Jared Goff.

[Slyder]

Can Las Vegas use our first rounder to draft a new owner?

[Rojo Rijo]

Chicago needs the following:

QB needy teams - check
A few QB prospects with real NFL potential - check
Those QB prospects to look fantastic at pro-day/combine - TBD
To not be complete morons and botch the decision - TBD

[WVRed]

Chicago needs the following:

QB needy teams - check
A few QB prospects with real NFL potential - check
Those QB prospects to look fantastic at pro-day/combine - TBD
To not be complete morons and botch the decision - TBD

I think they could trade with Seattle as Sea Ray suggested for Bryce Young. Chicago could move down to 5 and likely get one of Anderson/Carter and net a second and first round pick in 2024 and replenish the draft pick they traded for Chase Claypool.

If the Seahawks trade up and the Colts and Texans stand pat three QBs could go in the first four picks with Arizona taking a defensive player. Chicago would get who they want.

Makes sense to me.

[Rojo Rijo]

I think they could trade with Seattle as Sea Ray suggested for Bryce Young. Chicago could move down to 5 and likely get one of Anderson/Carter and net a second and first round pick in 2024 and replenish the draft pick they traded for Chase Claypool.

If the Seahawks trade up and the Colts and Texans stand pat three QBs could go in the first four picks with Arizona taking a defensive player. Chicago would get who they want.

Makes sense to me.

I agree with that. I think it puts them in excellent position. The only thing I wonder about Seattle is if they could decide they want to sign Geno instead.

[JaxRed]

Geno is 32. Bryce Young and Stroud are 21. Seattle should think long term.

But if I'm Chicago I REALLY think about resetting at QB. If Fields was coming out this year he would be behind Young and Stroud IMO. You can gain 2 additional cost-controlled years by resetting, and there's still doubts about Fields passing... You can probably get a first for Fields.

Here's Rich Eisen talking about #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UDwqJ2W3xc

[Kingspoint]

The crop of young, elite, potential HOF-QB's starring in the NFL right now is going to make the rest of the league envious and reaching for QB's for the next several years, creating disparity in the league as teams repeatedly find themselves picking in the Top-10.

[Kingspoint]

Bengals need a LT more than anything else.

[WVRed]

Bengals need a LT more than anything else.

Defense as well. Pratt is a FA at the end of the year and Logan Wilson the year after.

Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates are FAs and Dax Hill and Tycen Anderson are the only safeties on the roster after this year.

Pass rush could always be upgraded as well.

They can sign a LT in free agency.

[Rojo Rijo]

Geno is 32. Bryce Young and Stroud are 21. Seattle should think long term.

But if I'm Chicago I REALLY think about resetting at QB. If Fields was coming out this year he would be behind Young and Stroud IMO. You can gain 2 additional cost-controlled years by resetting, and there's still doubts about Fields passing... You can probably get a first for Fields.

Here's Rich Eisen talking about #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UDwqJ2W3xc

It would just come down to whether Seattle thinks they've got a team in place to win right now and whether they feel one of the rookie QBs has the ability to step in and lead a winning NFL team from day 1. Or Seattle could always sign Geno to a 1 year deal and have the new QB sit and learn for a year.

If Chicago goes that route i'd be on the phone to the Jets, Panthers, and Falcons. I feel like all 3 of those teams still have to be kicking themselves over passing on Fields in the draft and he's such a dynamic player right now that he's miles better than any FA QB they'd have a real shot at. Ultimately I think Chicago likes Fields enough and I can't imagine how bad it would be if they dealt Fields, he went on to be great somewhere else, and the Bears new QB pick didnt pan out. That's a potential legendary mistake. Personally I think Fields is better than he gets credit for and I wouldve grabbed him before Zack Wilson or Trey Lance without any hesitation.

[Todd Gack]

Could argue that for Detroit as well but I think they are sold on Jared Goff.

Detroit is in a bad spot. A QB good enough to win some games, but not good enough to win bigger ones. Perpetual 9-10 win seasons and 1st round playoff exits. I would try and trade up to get a good QB if they can. If not, then fine but Goff ain't leading them to much glory.

[Rojo Rijo]

Detroit is in a bad spot. A QB good enough to win some games, but not good enough to win bigger ones. Perpetual 9-10 win seasons and 1st round playoff exits. I would try and trade up to get a good QB if they can. If not, then fine but Goff ain't leading them to much glory.

Detroit gets the #6 and #18 picks in what is a draft with a solid amount of 1st round talent. On top of that they add Jameson Williams, last years #12 overall pick. If I had to guess i'd say they are sold enough of Goffs ability and the fact that they finished the season on an 8-2 run to go and get surrounding pieces as opposed to buying a top pick to draft a QB.

If I were Detroit i'd use the #6 on the best defensive player available, unless there is still a QB on the board at that point and I could trade out for a nice pick package. I'd then use the #18 to trade out of the 1st and add more day 2 picks, possibly a future 1st.

[bucksfan2]

Geno is 32. Bryce Young and Stroud are 21. Seattle should think long term.

But if I'm Chicago I REALLY think about resetting at QB. If Fields was coming out this year he would be behind Young and Stroud IMO. You can gain 2 additional cost-controlled years by resetting, and there's still doubts about Fields passing... You can probably get a first for Fields.

Here's Rich Eisen talking about #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UDwqJ2W3xc

No one in Chicago is going to be successful without better skill position players.

I don't know if Justin Fields is a legit starter in the league or a fantastic fantasy player. But regardless of that, his skill position players are terrible. If I were Chicago (and I am biased because I am a Fields fan) I would move that #1 overall pick for draft capital to revamp the offense. IMO Stroud won't be successful in a system where the skill position players are garbage. And Bryce Young reminds me of a smaller Justin Fields without the elite running ability.

Seattle is interesting because they have the draft capital and a team that is ready to be a SB contender with a solid QB.

[bucksfan2]

Detroit gets the #6 and #18 picks in what is a draft with a solid amount of 1st round talent. On top of that they add Jameson Williams, last years #12 overall pick. If I had to guess i'd say they are sold enough of Goffs ability and the fact that they finished the season on an 8-2 run to go and get surrounding pieces as opposed to buying a top pick to draft a QB.

If I were Detroit i'd use the #6 on the best defensive player available, unless there is still a QB on the board at that point and I could trade out for a nice pick package. I'd then use the #18 to trade out of the 1st and add more day 2 picks, possibly a future 1st.

The worst thing an organization can have is a great team but an average QB. A roster that is SB capable but a QB who just isn't it. In today's offensive game, you need a QB who can be a difference maker. Goff isn't that, its why McVey moved on from him. He is good enough to be a stop gap, but if you want to win the title, you need to shoot higher. The last thing you want is Andy Dalton, a good but not great QB, who keeps you competitive each and every year, but falls short in the playoffs.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The worst thing an organization can have is a great team but an average QB. A roster that is SB capable but a QB who just isn't it. In today's offensive game, you need a QB who can be a difference maker. Goff isn't that, its why McVey moved on from him. He is good enough to be a stop gap, but if you want to win the title, you need to shoot higher. The last thing you want is Andy Dalton, a good but not great QB, who keeps you competitive each and every year, but falls short in the playoffs.

I don’t disagree, but Goff literally almost won a Super Bowl.

[Sea Ray]

No one in Chicago is going to be successful without better skill position players.

I don't know if Justin Fields is a legit starter in the league or a fantastic fantasy player. But regardless of that, his skill position players are terrible. If I were Chicago (and I am biased because I am a Fields fan) I would move that #1 overall pick for draft capital to revamp the offense. IMO Stroud won't be successful in a system where the skill position players are garbage. And Bryce Young reminds me of a smaller Justin Fields without the elite running ability.

Seattle is interesting because they have the draft capital and a team that is ready to be a SB contender with a solid QB.

Seattle got solid QB play this year. Geno Smith set franchise records and is a Pro Bowler. With all that, they still just barely snuck into the playoffs and they're looking at an early exit. They're not a QB away from being a Super Bowl contender. They need a lot of help on defense.

[Sea Ray]

I don’t disagree, but Goff literally almost won a Super Bowl.

It's not easy to get a better QB than Goff. Fans get carried away insisting on franchise guys. Well there aren't many of those out there. In fact it's a roll of the dice whether CJ Stroud can even achieve the success Goff has. I think the Lions will go with Goff. The heck with the Super Bowl...this team wants to be a playoff contender. Nothing wrong with that

[Rojo Rijo]

The worst thing an organization can have is a great team but an average QB. A roster that is SB capable but a QB who just isn't it. In today's offensive game, you need a QB who can be a difference maker. Goff isn't that, its why McVey moved on from him. He is good enough to be a stop gap, but if you want to win the title, you need to shoot higher. The last thing you want is Andy Dalton, a good but not great QB, who keeps you competitive each and every year, but falls short in the playoffs.

Goff has absolutely surprised me in Detroit. He ranked #5 in QBR, behind only Mahomes, Allen, Tua, and Hurts.

I also take anything McVay does with a grain of salt. The guy tried to move on from Cam Akers as if he wasnt any good by sitting him until Akers stepped away from the team, somehow LA couldnt trade him at the deadline, they brought Akers back into the fold and then over their last 6 games he handles 104 carries for 512 yards and 6 TDs. That's with a team without Kupp or Stafford. I know he just won a SB but im not so sure McVay is the prodigy he's made out to be. He was extremely inconsistent this year. Even before losing Stafford and Kupp the Rams looked nothing like a defending SB champ.

[Kingspoint]

Defense as well. Pratt is a FA at the end of the year and Logan Wilson the year after.

Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates are FAs and Dax Hill and Tycen Anderson are the only safeties on the roster after this year.

Pass rush could always be upgraded as well.

They can sign a LT in free agency.

Jonah Williams, because of where he was drafted and the number of NFL Starts he's had probably has the next seven years locked in as a Starter somewhere in the league, maybe for three or four teams and even eight or nine more years in the league, as he's missed a ton of games, so he can't be worn out over the next five years. I would personally not want to use Williams as anything more than a reserve who could come in and play LT and RT and even either Guard position, though I wonder seriously if he could play RT and run-block effectively enough to do it.

Don't care how we replace Williams, whether through the 32nd pick (yes, we will win the Super Bowl), through Free Agency (I don't think we can afford this because even a guy like Williams has to be $10M to play LT....we'd be better off finding a career RT who is a FA whose salary has not been high that we could shift to LT after signing him. Since that person may not exist, I think it's best that we target someone in the mid-1st Round that we can trade up with in order to get),....and finally, the third option, someone else already in-house who can take the spot of Williams. I would personally let Williams walk, unless he shows a tremendous jump in production from both run-blocking and pass-blocking during these playoffs. Williams should have been playing for a contract all season and the results have been bad for someone in that position. By letting Williams walk, it's one FA LT that goes into the market that one of our competitors might sign to free us up to sign a different one.

Assume that the 1st Round pick is reserved for Offense. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Round picks can be used for those Defensive needs, while a team can always get a very good LB in the 5th rounds. Irwin has been a pleasant surprise, so I wouldn't be looking at Receiver before the 6th, where there is always a few good ones to choose from. I'd offer up 2024 picks to include in our 2023 1st in order to improve our pick in the 1st Round for a LT prospect. We need to move on from Williams. He wasn't it. A Veteran FA signing would make a lot of sense because of the inexperience at LG, and Williams doesn't qualify for that. There's experience, and then there's good experience.

[Kingspoint]

Find the teams who are rebuilding who have a LT that is at least above average as a pass-blocker, but is too old to fit into their rebuilding plans and offer the appropriate package to acquire him for the Bengals, assuming he fits into the O-Line blocking schemes that we run. There has to be at least one team, if not three, that fit into this category. Last year it was New Orleans and Terron Armstead.

- - - Updated - - -


Goff has absolutely surprised me in Detroit. He ranked #5 in QBR, behind only Mahomes, Allen, Tua, and Hurts.

I also take anything McVay does with a grain of salt. The guy tried to move on from Cam Akers as if he wasnt any good by sitting him until Akers stepped away from the team, somehow LA couldnt trade him at the deadline, they brought Akers back into the fold and then over their last 6 games he handles 104 carries for 512 yards and 6 TDs. That's with a team without Kupp or Stafford. I know he just won a SB but im not so sure McVay is the prodigy he's made out to be. He was extremely inconsistent this year. Even before losing Stafford and Kupp the Rams looked nothing like a defending SB champ.

They were toast when Whitworth retired.

[Kingspoint]

Seattle got solid QB play this year. Geno Smith set franchise records and is a Pro Bowler. With all that, they still just barely snuck into the playoffs and they're looking at an early exit. They're not a QB away from being a Super Bowl contender. They need a lot of help on defense.

The Seahawks are deplete of talent throughout that roster on both sides of the ball. They need a ton of quality bodies. Geno Smith looked great this season. No reason for them to look for another Quarterback when they have so many needs elsewhere.

Jody Allen also isn't going to be buying Free Agents the way Paul Allen did. They value their draft picks more now than they used to and will not likely trade any of them away in order to move up. If anything, they will trade down and acquire more picks. I think Seattle's top 1st Round pick is available.

[bucksfan2]

Seattle got solid QB play this year. Geno Smith set franchise records and is a Pro Bowler. With all that, they still just barely snuck into the playoffs and they're looking at an early exit. They're not a QB away from being a Super Bowl contender. They need a lot of help on defense.

Pro Bowl QB's do little for me. Andy Dalton was a Pro Bowler at times in his career. And when you consider Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert are all in the AFC, the bar isn't that high in the NFC. Especially since you have guys aging out of their careers (Brady and Rodgers.) One interesting play for Seattle may be Levis. I don't know what to think of him and tend to think that he has a long road ahead of him to be a NFL starter, but if he can sit the bench behind Smith for a season, they may have something.

The Lions got hot late in the season. Looking at their schedule, it looks like they got hot against some pretty average competition.

Most of the time when franchises move on from a QB, they pretty much are who they are. I can count two in the last 20 years who went to another team to become a franchise level QB, and one (Tannehill) is debatable while the other (Brees) was coming off a massive shoulder injury. I wouldn't place my franchise in the hands of Smith or Goff long term, but that is just me.

[Kingspoint]

Pro Bowl QB's do little for me. Andy Dalton was a Pro Bowler at times in his career. And when you consider Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert are all in the AFC, the bar isn't that high in the NFC. Especially since you have guys aging out of their careers (Brady and Rodgers.) One interesting play for Seattle may be Levis. I don't know what to think of him and tend to think that he has a long road ahead of him to be a NFL starter, but if he can sit the bench behind Smith for a season, they may have something.

The Lions got hot late in the season. Looking at their schedule, it looks like they got hot against some pretty average competition.

Most of the time when franchises move on from a QB, they pretty much are who they are. I can count two in the last 20 years who went to another team to become a franchise level QB, and one (Tannehill) is debatable while the other (Brees) was coming off a massive shoulder injury. I wouldn't place my franchise in the hands of Smith or Goff long term, but that is just me.

Smith is definitely not long-term, but their other needs are more pressing for this season. Drafting a QB in the 1st Round is not necessary.

As far as Goff, everyone needs to remember that the Lion's G.M. is the one who worked for the RAMS and suggested they draft Goff at the time, so this guy feels completely different about Goff than, well....everyone else in the world. He does see him as a franchise QB that he's going to ride behind the league's #1 Offensive Line, who will make Goff always look better than he is. If Detroit spent all of their focus this off-season on their Defense, then Goff becomes a heck of a lot more valuable next season. He won't have to put up 35 points to win a game, 24 will do. Goff's connection with St. Brown is as good as Rodgers' was with Adams or Burrows is with Chase, at least production-wise.

[WVRed]

Figured we could use a separate thread from the NFL discussion for all things draft related.

With Jalen Carter having legal trouble someone I was hoping might fall to the Bengals in Calijah Kancey might now jump Carter as the top DT:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35770387/calijah-kancey-runs-fastest-40-dt-combine-2006

[KoryMac5]

These D Lineman are out of this world...to run that fast at 282 lbs is unreal...I may get 5 flat at 180...with the wind at my back.

Calijah Kancey DT Pitt looking really sharp as are others...might be there at pick 28 for Bengals.

[UKFlounder]

https://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?123976-2023-NFL-Draft-Thread

[WVRed]

https://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?123976-2023-NFL-Draft-Thread

I thought there was a thread for this but went looking and couldn’t find it. Thanks.

Mods, could we just merge this one into the threads? Sorry for creating a new one.

[WVRed]

Posted this elsewhere but someone I was hoping would be there at 28 (Calijah Kancey DT from Pitt) blew up the 40 at the combine. With Jalen Carters legal issues I could see Kancey now being the first DT off the board now.

[KoryMac5]

Bryce Young measure in a hair above 5 ft 10 and 204...the 204 is a surprise though. If I am a team I would wonder if he could hold that through a season.

In other news Levis is going to throw at the combine...good move for him I wasn't sold on Herbert until I saw him at the combine.

[JaxRed]

Anthony Richardson putting on a freak show in the measureables !!

[Kingspoint]

March 4th, 2023 at 12:53pm CST by Ely Allen

Here are a few other rumors from this year’s upcoming draft:

Due to what is perceived to be a lack of safety depth in this year’s draft, the market for second-tier free agent safeties is expected to heat up when free agency opens, according to Tony Pauline of Pro Football Network. There’s an opinion that after the top three draft prospects at the position, which include Illinois’s Sydney Brown, Georgia’s Chris Smith, and the draft’s only expected first-round safety Brian Branch from Alabama, there is a large drop off in safety talent. This should result in more fervent bidding for free agent safeties who otherwise would’ve been looking at average contracts behind the top-tier earners at the position. While top free agent safeties like Jessie Bates and Jordan Poyer will be searching for top money, players like Eric Rowe, A.J. Moore, J.T. Gray, and Lamarcus Joyner should expect to compete for higher contracts than they would have if competing with a deeper draft class.

Contributing to the lack of depth at the position, Boise State safety JL Skinner was unable to perform at the Combine this week due to a torn pectoral muscle, according to Mike Garafolo of NFL Network. Skinner is currently projected as a Day 2 draft pick but could have improved his draft stock even more with a strong performance at the Combine, which many expected he would do. He still met with teams, but Skinner was not able to participate in any drills with the other defensive backs. He’ll have surgery next week.



Bell isn't mentioned, but there's probably several Safeties in the 2nd Tier and 3rd Tier not mentioned, and one or two of those mentioned may be the 3rd Tier, not the 2nd Tier.

For Bengals' fans, Bates is gone. He's going to get paid well. Bell, may be gone, too. Like Tobin said, they are going to have to wait to see what the market dictates, including with Pratt, whom I believe, won't get as much as he thinks he'll get (only had one good year, while basically being just a 2-down LB). Pratt is the easiest to replace and for far less money than he'll likely receive. I'd rather pay Bobby Wagner less for one-year than pay Pratt more for several years. There's so many options at LB to the team, that Pratt isn't really a concern. Bell is the biggest issue and they'll be monitoring that closely.

[KoryMac5]

All the top QBs going in the top 10…Stroud, and Richardson about to go nuclear.

[Ohayou]

Lot of talented TE's on show today. Darnell Washington, Sam LaPorta, and Brenton Strange all stood out. Here's a nice one-handed grab by Washington:

https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/1632193706420756481?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[KoryMac5]

If the NFL doesn't work out for Dawand Jones perhaps WWE

His measurements are off the chart:

Dawand Jones
6082
374
11 5/8 hand
36 3/8 arm
87 7/8 wing

[WVRed]

Panthers just traded for the no 1 pick:

In return, Chicago will get wide receiver DJ Moore; the Panthers' first-round pick, No. 9 overall; the 61st pick; another first-rounder in 2024 and a second-rounder in 2025.

[WrongVerb]

Are the Panthers after Richardson? I've heard Cam Newton comps.

[mth123]

Are the Panthers after Richardson? I've heard Cam Newton comps.

The word I'm hearing is CJ Stroud is their guy.

[RedTeamGo!]

Are the Panthers after Richardson? I've heard Cam Newton comps.

Don’t know why they would trade up to 1 for Richardson

[WVRed]

They were high on Levis last year (as a UK fan, don’t know why) but I can’t imagine trading up to 1 if he’s widely projected now to be the 4th QB taken.

[KoryMac5]

From what the Athletic said the Panthers will focus on 2 possible options (say Young and CJ) and hope the Texans get nervous and want to move up 1 so they don't lose their guy.

[Kingspoint]

Don’t know why they would trade up to 1 for Richardson

They traded up to #1 so they could have their choice. They a month to evalute everyone, and should they find more than one good enough to draft, they could trade that #1 pick down and recoup some of the picks they traded away, still getting a player that they covet for a QB. Indy is at #4 and HOU is at #2. Both would have to pay at least a 1st Rd, or more to trade up to get someone they covet. By making this deal so early, they have a lot of options, including the most important, more time to evaluate all of the options while entertaining offers from teams looking to take the player they are higher on than the Panthers might be.

- - - Updated - - -


From what the Athletic said the Panthers will focus on 2 possible options (say Young and CJ) and hope the Texans get nervous and want to move up 1 so they don't lose their guy.

Colts are definitely in on this.

[Kingspoint]

Restructure Details: Bolts, Bucs, Bills, Jets

March 11th, 2023 at 2:09pm CST by Sam Robinson

Teams continue to be aggressive in creating cap space ahead of Wednesday’s start to the 2023 league year, when franchises must be in compliance with the new $224.8MM salary cap. Here are the latest moves teams made to get there:

Reasonable Chargers activity in free agency should be expected. The team that began the week well over the cap has now created more than $40MM in space over the past couple of days. Following the moves to restructure Keenan Allen and Mike Williams‘ contracts, Field Yates of ESPN.com tweets the team created $25.99MM by tweaking Joey Bosa and Khalil Mack‘s deals. Mack’s 2023 cap number drops by $10.8MM, while OverTheCap’s Jason Fitzgerald adds Bosa’s drops by $15.2MM. Bosa’s 2024 number ballooned to $36.6MM because of the move. That will, then, necessitate more maneuvering down the line. The Bosa, Mack, Allen and Williams moves have created a total of $40.37MM in space, Lindsey Thiry of ESPN.com tweets. They are now more than $19MM under the cap.

In completing four restructures, the Buccaneers have now created more than $44MM in cap space. They redid the deals of Vita Vea, Chris Godwin, Ryan Jensen and Carlton Davis, Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times reports. The Bucs have moved to being barely $5MM over the cap, after beginning March at nearly $60MM north of the salary ceiling. Cuts of Leonard Fournette, Cameron Brate and Donovan Smith have helped the team along the way as well. That said, Fournette and Brate cannot be released until after the start of the league year, Greg Auman of Fox Sports notes (on Twitter). The Bucs being unable to realize those savings until after 3pm Wednesday will force them to find a few other ways to create that space.

The Jets adjusted the deals of Laken Tomlinson, D.J. Reed and Tyler Conklin — all free agency additions from 2022 — to create $15.2MM in cap space, Yates tweets. Still working to land Aaron Rodgers, the Jets are now $11.5MM under the cap.

The Raiders are among the leaders in cap space, but Yates tweets they adjusted Maxx Crosby‘s deal to create $7.5MM in additional funds. Las Vegas holds more than $43MM in cap space, sitting third overall ahead of free agency.

Bills defensive tackle Tim Settle agreed to a $600K pay cut for 2023, Yates adds (on Twitter). The 2022 free agency addition still has $2.1MM in guaranteed money for 2023, with the Buffalo News’ Ryan O’Halloran adding Settle can earn up to $4.41MM this year via incentives. The Bills are moving closer to the deadline with a lot of work left ahead; they are more than $19MM over the cap.

The Vikings and swing backup O-lineman Chris Reed agreed to a renegotiated deal that trims his cap number by around $1MM, per Yates. Minnesota still has work to do ahead of the cap-compliance deadline, sitting more than $7MM over the cap.

[WrongVerb]

I did a mock draft this morning. Usually I just toss them, but I ran one this morning that I think exemplifies what will happen between now and draft day.

Trades:
NYJ gets:
OT Jonah Williams

CIN gets:
#74 pick
-----------------------
LVR gets:
#28 pick

CIN gets:
#38 pick
#70 pick

===============

2.038 TE Luke Musgrave
2.060 SA Sydney Brown
2.070 CB Eli Ricks
2.074 RB Devon Achane
2.092 OT Tyler Steen
2.131 DT Kobie Turner
2.164 TE Davis Allen
2.205 WR Ronnie Bell
2.247 CB Darrell Luter Jr

[Sea Ray]

I did a mock draft this morning. Usually I just toss them, but I ran one this morning that I think exemplifies what will happen between now and draft day.

Trades:
NYJ gets:
OT Jonah Williams

CIN gets:
#74 pick
-----------------------
LVR gets:
#28 pick

CIN gets:
#38 pick
#70 pick

===============

2.038 TE Luke Musgrave
2.060 SA Sydney Brown
2.070 CB Eli Ricks
2.074 RB Devon Achane
2.092 OT Tyler Steen
2.131 DT Kobie Turner
2.164 TE Davis Allen
2.205 WR Ronnie Bell
2.247 CB Darrell Luter Jr

Am I getting this right? We trade Jonah Williams and our #1 pick and we get back a 2nd rd pick and a couple thirds...in a 3 way deal? What did the Raiders give up to get a first rd pick? Yeah, that'll really happen...

[WrongVerb]

Am I getting this right? We trade Jonah Williams and our #1 pick and we get back a 2nd rd pick and a couple thirds...in a 3 way deal? What did the Raiders give up to get a first rd pick? Yeah, that'll really happen...

Two separate trades using the PFF trade utility, which accepted the trades.

[JaxRed]

Kentucky's Will Levis posted pics of himself yesterday about his "muscling up". That would scare me off if I was a team. He looked more like a body builder than a QB. I'd be a little concerned about steroids also.

19346

[SteelSD]

Kentucky's Will Levis posted pics of himself yesterday about his "muscling up". That would scare me off if I was a team. He looked more like a body builder than a QB. I'd be a little concerned about steroids also.

I'm more terrified by what appears to be a conjoined twin's head beginning to protrude from his upper right shoulder area. He oughta' get that looked at...just sayin'.

[KoryMac5]

I'm more terrified by what appears to be a conjoined twin's head beginning to protrude from his upper right shoulder area. He oughta' get that looked at...just sayin'.

I think he had shoulder surgery if I remember which can be pretty invasive.

[Ohayou]

Kentucky's Will Levis posted pics of himself yesterday about his "muscling up". That would scare me off if I was a team. He looked more like a body builder than a QB. I'd be a little concerned about steroids also.

A pump and lighting can do wonders for your physique lol. Left side looks like he just woke up, hence the flatter look.

Also, no surprise, but PED use is rampant in the NFL, as well as the College & HS levels.

[Kingspoint]

March 31st, 2023 at 7:47pm CST by Sam Robinson

The Steelers traded Chase Claypool for a second-round pick last year, and given their reputation for selecting Day 2 wideouts, it should not surprise the team is being connected to such a move once again. The team will seek an upgrade in the slot, GM Omar Khan said (via The Athletic’s Mark Kaboly). Hopeful slot weapon Calvin Austin III missed his entire rookie year due to injury. The team should be considered likely to address this need by Round 3, Kaboly adds in a separate piece. From 2013-22, the Steelers chose eight wideouts on Day 2. Both their current top two receivers — Diontae Johnson and George Pickens — were Friday-night draftees.

- - - Updated - - -

The Browns no longer have a second-round pick thanks to the Elijah Moore pick-swap trade. The Browns eyed Moore since his trade request emerged last year, GM Andrew Berry said (via Cabot). After a dispute with then-Jets OC Mike LaFleur, Moore requested a trade. The Jets were adamant they did not want to trade Moore at the time, but after they signed Allen Lazard and Mecole Hardman, the Ole Miss alum became expendable. Still, Cabot adds Joe Douglas and Robert Saleh vouched for Moore’s character to the Browns ahead of the trade.

- - - Updated - - -

It does not sound like the Ravens will use a notable resource to replace Ben Powers. John Harbaugh alluded to another competition — one featuring former third-round pick Ben Cleveland, ex-Raiders draftee John Simpson, swingman Patrick Mekari and 2022 fourth-round tackle Daniel Faalele (who is 6-foot-9) as options — being how the team will replace Powers, who won a left guard battle last year. Powers, who scored a four-year Broncos deal worth $52MM, beat out Cleveland in training camp. A draft choice could be added here, but The Athletic’s Jeff Zrebiec does not anticipate a high pick going to this spot.

[WrongVerb]

Multiple Teams Are Removing Jalen Carter (https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Multiple-Teams-Are-Removing-Jalen-Carter)


Updated April 3, 2023
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

Reports came out recentlyy that Las Vegas Raiders had ruled out Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter. Carter is one of the most talented players for the 2023 NFL Draft and is an elite athlete. However, there are a lot of character and work-ethic concerns with Carter around the league. Those were established before his street-racing incident, and then he gained nine pounds between the combine and pro day, with Carter being so out of shape that he could not complete his pro-day workout. Those issues led to Carter being ruled out by the Raiders, according to media reports. WalterFootball.com spoke with sources from two other teams picking in the top 10 that need help at defensive tackle, and they said that Carter is getting pulled off their draft boards as well.

[WVRed]

Multiple Teams Are Removing Jalen Carter (https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Multiple-Teams-Are-Removing-Jalen-Carter)Yet Carter is only visiting teams in the top 10 per his agent.

Could be a messy draft night for him. Kinda surprised he hasn't fallen in any of the mock drafts.

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[WVRed]

A team I really think should trade up for Will Levis and it would work: the Minnesota Vikings.

Kirk Cousins is a FA after this year. Levis could sit behind Cousins and Kevin OConnell coached with Liam Coen who got the best out of Levis.

Imagine Levis throwing to Justin Jefferson. It would probably be the best situation for Levis outside of Vegas.

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[Kingspoint]

A team I really think should trade up for Will Levis and it would work: the Minnesota Vikings.

Kirk Cousins is a FA after this year. Levis could sit behind Cousins and Kevin OConnell coached with Liam Coen who got the best out of Levis.

Imagine Levis throwing to Justin Jefferson. It would probably be the best situation for Levis outside of Vegas.

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The Coach and Cousins have a great relationship that's not going to be changed until Cousins proves he can't do it anymore or the Coach can't win Division Titles. It's a great idea, but they are probably going to resign Cousins. MIN's biggest problem the last three seasons has been their cap numbers. A lot of that was Cousins' contract, but just as much of that was free agent signings on the Offensive Line that didn't work out, retaining highly successful Defenders that Zimmer set up to be successful, and, well, that's it. They lost a lot of assets trying to clear salary, not being able to resign some quality players. They now need to replace Thielen as Jefferson will be shown a Cover-2 probably every play, forcing someone else to beat them. Their Defense is not very good anymore.

They have a lot of problems and I agree with you that they need to go a different direction from Cousins. I don't know how they could obtain a high draft pick though as they don't have the assets to trade away to take a risk on a Rookie QB. They are in win-now mode and they need a quantity of young talent to give them better financial flexibility. They'd lose that trying to trade up for a pick that moves them up 10 spots in the 1st Rd. I'm guessing that That franchise-tag is going to be huge after Hurts, Burrow and Herbert sign their new contracts over the next 12 months. Vikings can't afford that. They might try to get Cousins to sign an extension before that happens for two extra years at about the current franchise-tag value of $32M. That gives them a window of three years before blowing it up.

[WVRed]

The Coach and Cousins have a great relationship that's not going to be changed until Cousins proves he can't do it anymore or the Coach can't win Division Titles.Cousins isn't getting any younger and if you have the chance to add what is essentially the same QB but with higher upside go for it.

It worked for the Chiefs replacing Alex Smith with Patrick Mahomes.

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[Kingspoint]

I think, inadvertantly, that it's just been revealed that the Colts are going to trade up for a QB.

Because if your Owner comes out and basically states that you need to win or you're gone, then the only move you can possibly make to save your job this season is to draft the right QB for the Colts. Using retreads has not been working. And, by the "right" QB, that means getting the best that your scouts say that is in this draft. You have to try to move up to do it, and Carolina seems like a team that might be willing to move down. If anything, you can't let someone leapfrog you and trade with Arizona and take the QB that you want.

I don't think you can talk your owner into paying the price that it would cost to obtain Lamar Jackson, but if I was Ballard, I'd definitely come in with a proposal of two choices...Lamar Jackson and exactly what it would take, or moving up into the Top-3 in order to at least get the 3rd best QB available (maybe 1 or 2 if your scouts see things differently). What you can't do is sit there at 4 and let the draft work you. I don't think you'll be around next season.

April 4th, 2023 at 9:11pm CST by Ben Levine

The Colts have three winning seasons and two playoff appearances during Chris Ballard‘s six seasons as the team’s general manager. Even in the midst of a 4-12-1 campaign that featured the firing of head coach Frank Reich, Colts owner Jim Irsay continued to endorse his top decision maker. However, fast forward a few months, and Irsay is now hinting that the Colts will have to perform better on the field if Ballard hopes to keep his job.

“Everyone has to be successful to keep their job, if you’re a general manager or head coach,” Irsay said (via Zak Keefer of The Athletic). “I really feel that he’s not on some quick, hot seat. But the expectations are there.” As Keefer notes, Irsay has always been fond of his GM, admiring the executive’s drafting prowess and roster-building ability. The owner has also been willing to take part of the blame for the team’s recent inconsistencies, but Ballard was given full control of the recent head coaching search and will be fully responsible for making the Colts’ selection at No. 4 later this month.

In other words, if Ballard fails, it will be on him, and any struggles in 2023 could ultimately lead to the GM’s firing. As Keefer writes, this doesn’t necessarily mean that the Colts have to be a playoff contender; rather, Irsay will be looking for “hope, optimism, [or] tangible proof that Ballard can fix the mess he’s made.” Normally, a GM with Ballard’s resume probably would have been fired a few years ago, but Irsay also indicated that the organization is still reeling from Andrew Luck‘s sudden retirement decision in 2019.

“I’m not gonna make excuses for (Chris) or anyone else, (but) you know, the Andrew Luck card’s never been seen by a general manager before,” Irsay said. “I mean, that’s a tough one, guys. I’d like to see how other teams would respond when you have a 29-year-old who was supposed to be there for the next 10 years and win two Lombardis just walks away, two weeks before the season starts. I mean, that’s a hard one, you know?”

[Kingspoint]

April 10th, 2023 at 1:56pm CST by Adam La Rose
The top two selections in the 2023 draft – owned by the Panthers and Texans – are widely expected to be used on quarterbacks. The same is true of the Colts at No. 4, which has fueled plenty of speculation regarding what the Cardinals will do with the third overall pick. They will likely have a number of suitors if they choose to move down the board.

Arizona has received inquiries from “at least six teams” on the subject of the availability of the No. 3 pick, reports ESPN’s Adam Schefter (Twitter link). That comes as little surprise, considering the standalone value of that slot and what it represents in this year’s pecking order for teams eyeing a rookie signal-caller. Any team looking to jump ahead of Indianapolis to secure the third-best QB in the class (likely either Florida’s Anthony Richardson or Kentucky’s Will Levis) would need to send a sizeable package to Arizona. The Colts themselves could guard against that possibility by moving up one spot, something which would guarantee the Cardinals having a free choice of the best defensive players available. Other teams – including the Raiders (scheduled to pick seventh) and Titans (11th) have been linked to a jump up the board, likely the third spot. That could result in a bidding war, something which would of course greatly benefit Arizona.

The Cardinals had a highly disappointing campaign in 2022, and have undergone a house cleaning in the front office and on the sidelines. Without many young, foundational pieces in place, anything which would allow Arizona to add draft capital in 2023 and/or future years would likely outweigh the immediate benefits of staying put. The Cardinals currently have four of the draft’s first 96 picks. Schefter notes that the team remains undecided with respect to keeping or trading the pick. A decision will likely not be made until draft night itself, as teams have yet to complete their QB evaluations and those of other top prospects. Waiting to see how the first two selections shake out could allow new Cardinals GM Monti Ossenfort to maximize his leverage against teams looking to move up. In either case, Arizona figure to be a team to watch as the draft draws nearer.

[KoryMac5]

NFL Sunday Ticket pricing per Arti Meirov


YouTube has announced its pricing for NFL Sunday Ticket:

YouTube TV subscribers:
• $349/season ($249 if you purchase before June 6)
• $389 ($289 early) if you bundle with RedZone

Non-YouTube TV subscribers:
• $449/season ($349 early)
• $489 ($389 early) with RedZone

[Sea Ray]

NFL Sunday Ticket pricing per Arti Meirov

Wow. That is pricey.

[WVRed]

Wow. That is pricey.Indeed.

How much was it on DirecTV?

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[KoryMac5]

Indeed.

How much was it on DirecTV?

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293.00 for basic premium was 395.00...

I am out of market for the Bengals but with them being on Primetime 6-7 times this upcoming season it would be a hard pass for me...

[WrongVerb]

James Palmer
@JamesPalmerTV

Pitt's DT Calijah Kancey, who is expected to go in the first round, just said on NFL NOW on @nflnetwork he did not go on a single official visit.
1:31pm · 19 Apr 2023

[WVRed]

That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.

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[WrongVerb]

That's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.

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I took that to mean he wasn't invited. If he declined to take offers for visits, that's a huge red flag.

[KoryMac5]

I took that to mean he wasn't invited. If he declined to take offers for visits, that's a huge red flag.

I think more and more teams are doing Zoom meetings though...they seem to be more efficient...no worries about travel delays etc...

but interesting that he didn't get any invites and only spoke with a few teams at the combine...

If he is there at 28 might be an option for the Bengals.

[WVRed]

I think more and more teams are doing Zoom meetings though...they seem to be more efficient...no worries about travel delays etc...

but interesting that he didn't get any invites and only spoke with a few teams at the combine...

If he is there at 28 might be an option for the Bengals.At worst I think he's Gino Atkins.

At best Aaron Donald.

We could use an interior pass rusher. Was kinda surprised he didn't overtake Jalen Carter with the legal issues.

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[WVRed]

A lot of chatter I'm reading that if the Panthers take Bryce Young the Texans may opt for Tyree Wilson due to Stroud and DeShaun Watson having the same agent and take either Richardson or Levis if either fall to 12.

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[RedTeamGo!]

At best Aaron Donald.


I don't think you can say this about anyone. Donald is a unicorn.

[WrongVerb]

A lot of chatter I'm reading that if the Panthers take Bryce Young the Texans may opt for Tyree Wilson due to Stroud and DeShaun Watson having the same agent and take either Richardson or Levis if either fall to 12.

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It's a week before the draft. I classify any rumors concerning the draft at this point to be disinformation.

[WVRed]

I don't think you can say this about anyone. Donald is a unicorn.I don't know. Kancey ran a 4.67 at the combine and has elicited Donald comparisons, likely that both are similar players coming out of college and played at Pitt.

I didn't say he would be Donald but best case scenario he could be.

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[Boss-Hog]

I don't know. Kancey ran a 4.67 at the combine and has elicited Donald comparisons, likely that both are similar players coming out of college and played at Pitt.

I didn't say he would be Donald but best case scenario he could be.

Sent from my SM-S911U using TapatalkGeno Atkins as his floor seems a bit ambitious considering he's likely a Hall of Famer (at worst, borderline). If NFL teams see Geno as Kancey's floor, he'll likely be a top five pick, if not higher. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe Ed Oliver.

[KoryMac5]

Geno Atkins as his floor seems a bit ambitious considering he's likely a Hall of Famer (at worst, borderline). If NFL teams see Geno as Kancey's floor, he'll likely be a top five pick, if not higher. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe Ed Oliver.

Yeah I saw the Oliver comp out there as well and tend to agree I think Kancey has strength but he relies more on speed and leverage in his game. Donald and Geno both put up impressive numbers on the bench and Kancey didn't test at his pro day or the combine with the bench press.

[Bob Sheed]

NFL Sunday Ticket pricing per Arti Meirov

Arrrr, matey. Those be some mighty price gouging waves out there on the open seas. Best be using me trusty ship.

[WrongVerb]

This amuses me, for the sheer disinformation of it all...



NFL Rumors
@nflrums

A handful of NFL Teams like Alabama RB Jahmyr Gibbs over Texas Bijan Robinson in the NFL Draft, per @peter_king
10:37am · 24 Apr 2023

[RedTeamGo!]

This amuses me, for the sheer disinformation of it all...

silly season is so silly

[WVRed]

Final Mock. Can't do trades on PFF unless you pay for it.



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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230427/27643e90d69788c65b7dd74a879af3c6.jpg

[medford]

So draft day is here, pick your favorite team and give me your:

Sprint to the podium with your pick selection (ie your dream selection for your favorite team)
Walk (who you expect them to pick)
Fear (who you don't want them to take)

I expect there are more Bengal fans here, but hopefully there are a few other teams sprinkled in :)

I'll start:

Bengals
Spring - Bijon Robinson (I suspect there is a less than 5% chance that he drops that far, but I have seen him mocked past the Bengals somewhere this week, so there is a chance )
Walk - Emmanuel Forbes (I'll take any top corner that falls, this is right about the range Forbes is mocked at)
Fear - Dalton Kincaid (I'd prefer to wait on TE, especially in such a deep class, I like Kincaid's game but those back injuries scare me)

[WrongVerb]

Sprint: Darnell Wright
Walk: Jahmyr Gibbs
Fear: Calijah Kancey

[WVRed]

Sprint: Darnell Wright
Walk: Jahmyr Gibbs
Fear: Calijah KanceyInteresting. I'd be happy with Kancey.

Sprint: Bijan Robinson or Darnell Wright

Walk: Gibbs or Forbes

Fear: Kincaid or DJ Turner

I'm kinda in the same mix as everyone else.

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[WrongVerb]

Interesting. I'd be happy with Kancey.

I just don't want to draft in the first round anyone who's literally in the 0th percentile of anything. Give me someone like Mazi or Bresee over Kancey.


Sprint: Bijan Robinson or Darnell Wright

Walk: Gibbs or Forbes

Fear: Kincaid or DJ Turner

I'm kinda in the same mix as everyone else.

I don't think you have to worry about Turner. He's not the type of CB the Bengals seem to draft.

Agree on Kincaid. His medicals are a bit concerning, but more importantly, he's like a big slot more than he is an in-line tight end.

[WVRed]

I just don't want to draft in the first round anyone who's literally in the 0th percentile of anything. Give me someone like Mazi or Bresee over Kancey.



I don't think you have to worry about Turner. He's not the type of CB the Bengals seem to draft.

Agree on Kincaid. His medicals are a bit concerning, but more importantly, he's like a big slot more than he is an in-line tight end.I've seen Turner mocked to the Bengals and it seems like a major reach. Forbes doesn't even seem like someone they would draft yet here we are.

Others I could list as walk:

Michael Mayer
Darnell Washington

Fear:

Luke Musgrave

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[Rojo Rijo]

Jags

Sprint - Dalton Kincaid or Broderick Jones
Walk - Emmanual Forbes or Brian Branch
Fear - any DE/DL not named Will Anderson, Jalen Carter, or Tyree Wilson

[WVRed]

Jags

Sprint - Dalton Kincaid or Broderick Jones
Walk - Emmanual Forbes or Brian Branch
Fear - any DE/DL not named Will Anderson, Jalen Carter, or Tyree WilsonI've seen Nolan Smith linked to the Jags. That would be solid IMO.

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[Kingspoint]

So, Stroud is going to be hearing Tom Petty in his head all night?

"Cause I'm freeeeeeee-falling. Yes, I'm freeeeeeeee-falling."

[Ohayou]

Bengals

Spring - Bijan Robinson/Darnell Wright
Walk - Emmanuel Forbes/Jahmyr Gibbs
Fear - Dawand Jones/Luke Musgrave

[WVRed]

So, Stroud is going to be hearing Tom Petty in his head all night?

"Cause I'm freeeeeeee-falling. Yes, I'm freeeeeeeee-falling."I think someone mortgages their future to move up to 3 for either Stroud or Levis (to leap the Colts). Tennessee is the betting favorite to move up which would probably be Stroud. Vikings could as well but that would probably be Levis.

If Levis goes third, Stroud will go 4th unless the Colts decide they like Anthony Richardson better. In which case it's Trey Lance vs Justin Fields all over again.

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[WrongVerb]

I think someone mortgages their future to move up to 3 for either Stroud or Levis (to leap the Colts). Tennessee is the betting favorite to move up which would probably be Stroud. Vikings could as well but that would probably be Levis.

If Levis goes third, Stroud will go 4th unless the Colts decide they like Anthony Richardson better. In which case it's Trey Lance vs Justin Fields all over again.

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Lots of Twitter smoke about a Titans trade up. But without verification, it's impossible to say for sure whether it's someone who might be in the know vs. some rando pontificating. I guess we'll see. This is shaping up to be a fun draft night.

[RedTeamGo!]

So, Stroud is going to be hearing Tom Petty in his head all night?

"Cause I'm freeeeeeee-falling. Yes, I'm freeeeeeeee-falling."

Doubt

[RedTeamGo!]

Sounds like Stroud is going 2 to the Texans

[Tony Cloninger]

Let me know when they actually start the draft. Now get off my yard.

[Slyder]

Let someone sell a first next year for Las Vegas to move back.

- - - Updated - - -

Bryce Young #1 for Carolina. We'll see how the crazy move from 9 works out.
CJ Stroud #2 Texans.

[WVRed]

Texans just traded up to 3 for Will Anderson Jr.

Wow

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[WrongVerb]

The Texans trade back up to #3. This is gonna be fun.

[WVRed]

Colts take Richardson.

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[Slyder]

welp there goes the workout warrior. Richardson to Indy.

[BuckeyeRed27]

So we have 2 running backs in the top half of the first round. Party like it’s 1999!

[WVRed]

Ugh, so much for the Bengals taking Gibbs.

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[Sea Ray]

Sounds like Stroud is going 2 to the Texans

I think he'll be the best one (QB) of this class

[BuckeyeRed27]

Ugh, so much for the Bengals taking Gibbs.

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Wonder what Detroit wants for Swift?

[WVRed]

Steelers just traded up.

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[WVRed]

Forbes to Washington. Another Bengals target off the board.

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[RedTeamGo!]

Wonder what Detroit wants for Swift?

Would the bengals trade #29 for him?

[RedTeamGo!]

Why did the Lions take a 3rd down back at #12 overall?

[adkindo]

thankful for the Calijah Kancey pick....really felt like Tampa Bay was going to take Levis....

[WVRed]

If Levis is still on the board at 28 do you trade out if someone wants to move back into the first to take him?

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[WVRed]

Zay Flowers to the Ravens

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[WVRed]

thankful for the Calijah Kancey pick....really felt like Tampa Bay was going to take Levis....

Thought Minnesota was it. Looks like Addison.

[WVRed]

Giants move up one spot.

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[RedTeamGo!]

If Levis is still on the board at 28 do you trade out if someone wants to move back into the first to take him?

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Why would anyone trade up for Levis? You can just wait for him to fall to you in the 2nd round. Hes not a first round talent.

- - - Updated - - -

What in the absolute hell were the Lions doing with their picks? A RB not named Bijan at 12 overall and a MLB at 18???? Kind of draft that gets people fired.

[KronoRed]

Why would anyone trade up for Levis? You can just wait for him to fall to you in the 2nd round. Hes not a first round talent.

- - - Updated - - -

What in the absolute hell were the Lions doing with their picks? A RB not named Bijan at 12 overall and a MLB at 18???? Kind of draft that gets people fired.

Lions gonna Lion.

[Todd Gack]

Someone will trade up in 1R to get that extra year out of him. Bengals are probably fielding some calls.

[WVRed]

Why would anyone trade up for Levis? You can just wait for him to fall to you in the 2nd round. Hes not a first round talent.

- - - Updated - - -

What in the absolute hell were the Lions doing with their picks? A RB not named Bijan at 12 overall and a MLB at 18???? Kind of draft that gets people fired.Fifth year option. You get it as a first round pick. Gives you an extra year to determine if your QB is the future or not.

It's why teams trade back into the first to select a QB instead of waiting on them to fall.

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[WVRed]

Bills just traded up for Kincaid.

One I'm glad went before we picked.

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[WVRed]

This is probably Mayer to the Cowboys. They need a TE.

Its Mazi Smith.

Draft is actually shaping up well for the Bengals. Trade out, possibly Joey Porter, Nolan Smith, Myles Murphy or a TE.
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[WVRed]

Looks like Anton Harrison for the Jags. Fills a need with Robinson suspended and Taylor leaving for KC.

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[Kingspoint]

Just got in.

Here we go....

[Sea Ray]

Bengals not trading this pick

[Kingspoint]

If Levis is still on the board at 28 do you trade out if someone wants to move back into the first to take him?

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Yes. Unless someone you had ranked quite a bit higher falls.

[Kingspoint]

What I wrote on the 19th why we need to add a DE...

The Bengals have already a formidable duo of EDGE Defenders in Henrickson and Hubbard. They invested heavily in Day 2 pick EDGE Joseph Assai in 2021, but the versatile Assai missed his entire rookie season with a torn meniscus and two months ago he had surgery for a torn labrum, an injury he played through for 16 games all of 2022. Fehoko would give them a versatile run defender on the edge. The 276-pounder earned an 87.4 run-defense grade and a 90.2 pass-rushing grade last season. The exact same size as Assai in height and weight, the Bengals would be making an investment in an area that always has players getting injured. Need only remember to Hendrickson barely being able to walk trying to get off the field and back on again in the Championship Game against the Chiefs.

Hubbard and Hendrickson both missed games last season ending the year pretty beat up, along with Assai. They can use another body to compete against another 2021 draftee, 4th Rd pick Cam Sample, who missed the Championship game against the Chiefs because of an injured groin. 2022 7th Rd pick Jeffery Gunter played only 7 snaps last season. It's clear that the Bengals are looking for replacements for the eventual departures of Hubbard and Hendrickson while also looking for players who can replace them during the season as they like to use a rotational Defensive front (for many reasons). Hendrickson's contract jumps $4M this season to $10M, then rises another $5M to $15M in 2024. After that he's a Free Agent and has probably priced himself off of the team. 2024 is going to be a big decision for the Bengals with that $15M, so the sooner they can find someone who is at least average, the better. It's not likely they find his replacement, a top-five EDGE Defender the last two seasons, but he turns 31 in Dec of 2025 and he may or may not be as effective then.

Here's a write-up from Week 13 last season in PFF:

"All Trey Hendrickson does is produce and fly under the radar. After Week 12, he has the third-highest pass-rush grade (90.0) among edge rushers this season. The only two players ahead of him are Garrett and Parsons, who just so happen to be Nos. 1 and 2 on this list. The overall sack numbers are down a bit for Hendrickson (six through Week 12), but he is still one of the league’s most consistent and disruptive players off the edge."

Hubbard's salary jumps $5M this season, but to a reasonable $7.65M. It stays reasonable in 2024 and 2025 at $7.8M and $9M. Though not as prolific as Hendrickson, Hubbard is solid. In that same Week 13 article that ranked Hendrickson 7th overall among EDGE Defenders, Hubbard was ranked 23rd:

"There is something to be said for consistency, and that's exactly why Hubbard deserves to be on the list. This would mark the fifth straight season he has posted an overall grade of 66.0 or better, and he's improved just about every year. Hubbard is having the best campaign of his NFL career, tying for seventh in run stops (16). While he doesn't have gaudy sack totals this season (4.5) (he finished the season with 9, not counting the playoffs), he is currently fifth in quarterback hits (12). His improvement is most evident in his true pass-set win rate, which stands at 25% through 11 games."

- - - Updated - - -

I have to assume that Murphy was Top-22 on the Bengals' board.

[Boston Red]

Just looked at the picks for the first time and and noticed Will Levis is still available. Hilarious.

[adkindo]

really like the Seahawks picks based on their roster

[adkindo]

really did not want my team to take Levis......at the same time not a big fan of him being somewhat humiliated on this size stage. Someone needs to remind him how Geno Smiths response in this situation a few years ago was a black eye on his reputation for years.

[WVRed]

The Georgia Eagles/Philadelphia Bulldogs select Nolan Smith.

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[WVRed]

Chiefs stay local with Uzomah.

Joey Porter Jr to the Steelers has to be the leadoff pick tomorrow right?

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[Kingspoint]

...

[WVRed]

really did not want my team to take Levis......at the same time not a big fan of him being somewhat humiliated on this size stage. Someone needs to remind him how Geno Smiths response in this situation a few years ago was a black eye on his reputation for years.Haven't seen Levis do anything like Geno tonight. Don't know that Levis ever left the green room.

Mel Kiper pushed the narrative with Levis. He probably was a first round pick last year but no offensive line and receivers doomed his draft stock.

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[KoryMac5]

Tough position for him to be in...sitting there all cameras on him...they send invites out too based on if they think your going to go in the 1st to avoid Geno situations...

Rumors were all over the place on him heard his interviews were not good than heard teams were possibly going to take him top 5...roller coaster...his GF is smokin hot and he got to hang with her all night so I don't feel too bad

[WVRed]

Tough position for him to be in...sitting there all cameras on him...they send invites out too based on if they think your going to go in the 1st to avoid Geno situations...

Rumors were all over the place on him heard his interviews were not good than heard teams were possibly going to take him top 5...roller coaster...his GF is smokin hot and he got to hang with her all night so I don't feel too badThere were four left in the green room. Joey Porter Jr was another and I forget who else.

McShay and Albert Breer both said teams dropped Levis due to concerns over his toe injury and his style of play. He's basically Carson Wentz 2.0.

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[RedTeamGo!]

Except Wentz was actually good in college

[UKFlounder]

Levis was very good in 2021, but bad coaching and a bad OL hurt him last year.



Except Wentz was actually good in college

[RedTeamGo!]

Levis was very good in 2021, but bad coaching and a bad OL hurt him last year.

24 TD / 13 INT in 2021 - I wouldn't call that very good

[KoryMac5]

Might work out for Levis if a team takes him and develops him...

Lions, Rams, Seattle, could all take a chance

[WVRed]

Except Wentz was actually good in collegeOne played FCS and the other played in the SEC.

Both are running QBs who play more like linebackers. Wentz never could stay healthy because of that and Levis is going down the same path.

As was posted above, the teams most likely to draft him today aren't going to be looking for a savior. He can sit for a year and develop unless injury forces him into action.

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[KoryMac5]

Lots of action on the 32nd pick for Pitts...teams trying to move up to grab Levis according to NFL Network

[RichRed]

Forbes to Washington. Another Bengals target off the board.

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Exactly 40 years ago to the day, Washington drafted another undersized CB with blazing speed in the first round. Fella by the name of Darrell Green, listed at 5’9”, 184 lbs. but probably played smaller than that. I wouldn’t mind the same career path for Forbes (and yes, I realize that’s highly unlikely but the historical symmetry is interesting to me).

[WrongVerb]

Giovani Bernard announces his retirement:

https://twitter.com/G_Bernard25/status/1652018832221847572

[WVRed]

Steelers take the legacy pick.

Titans trade up for Levis. Him, Stroud and Richardson in the same division. If he wanted motivation outside of not being a first round pick he has it now.

Lions take LaPorta over Mayer who then goes to the Raiders.

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[WVRed]

Steelers take Keeanu Benton.

Pretty solid draft for them so far.

Packers just took a WR finally.

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[KoryMac5]

Drew Pearson always rocks the draft

[WVRed]

Jaguars just got a local product here in Brenton Strange.

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[Stray]

Happy for the Bearcat Tre Tucker. Off to the Raiders.

[SteelSD]

Steelers take Keeanu Benton.

Pretty solid draft for them so far.

Before the draft, if someone told me that Pittsburgh's first two days were going to net them the following, I'd have considered them insane...

Rd1 (14)- Broderick Jones- OT (-Pick 17 and 120)
Rd2 (32)- Joey Porter Jr.- CB
Rd2 (49)- Keeanu Benton- DT
Rd3 (93)- Darnell Washington- TE (-Pick 80, +Pick 132)

They essentially moved down 13 spots in the third and 12 in the fourth to grab a premier Left Tackle in round one- a player the Jets would have certainly taken had they not leapfrogged them- while still nabbing Porter Jr. (widely mocked to them at pick 17) and a monster TE in round three. Washington slid due to concerns about his knee, and he's more promise than polish as a route runner. But he's a wrecking ball as a blocker and averaged @17 yards per catch, albeit in limited reps (38 total receptions over the last two seasons). Quite a few Steelers fans were hoping he'd be a target at pick 32 and I've seen mocks with him at the bottom of round one, so to grab him at 93 is nutty. I like Benton too, but view him as the guy with the most limited upside. That being said, Pittsburgh desperately needs to get younger on the D-line, so I get the pick.

[Puffy]

The New York Football Giants have hit a solid triple so far. They are up against the cap so they are going to have to do some restructures (and why they have been trading up to reduce what started as 11 draft picks down to 7) but a man corner in Deonte Banks fits perfect in a Wink Martindale defense, a center who is plug and play in John Michael Schmitz and the only thing that knocks this down to a Triple instead of a HR (for the Giants, other teams have had better drafts) is Jalin Hyatt. He fast but there were 2 receivers I didn't want for Giants - Downs and Hyatt. They are both slot only guys (in my opinion - obviously the Giants think the 6'0 Hyatt can play outside). At least Downs would have offered special teams/kick returner but Hyatt - nope. Coming out of Tennessee he is going to have a large learning curve on route tree, he is going to need to add some good weight and he is going to have to learn to beat press. The great Steve Smith stated that Hyatt only lined up against press man 62 times total in his entire college career. They stacked him, motioned him, had no routes for him on certain plays to just let him free up. I think his entire rookie year will be learning and running verticals.

But, what do I know. Schoen and Daboll know more football then I'll ever know so I'll trust their evals.

[Sea Ray]

Before the draft, if someone told me that Pittsburgh's first two days were going to net them the following, I'd have considered them insane...

Rd1 (14)- Broderick Jones- OT (-Pick 17 and 120)
Rd2 (32)- Joey Porter Jr.- CB
Rd2 (49)- Keeanu Benton- DT
Rd3 (93)- Darnell Washington- TE (-Pick 80, +Pick 132)

They essentially moved down 13 spots in the third and 12 in the fourth to grab a premier Left Tackle in round one- a player the Jets would have certainly taken had they not leapfrogged them- while still nabbing Porter Jr. (widely mocked to them at pick 17) and a monster TE in round three. Washington slid due to concerns about his knee, and he's more promise than polish as a route runner. But he's a wrecking ball as a blocker and averaged @17 yards per catch, albeit in limited reps (38 total receptions over the last two seasons). Quite a few Steelers fans were hoping he'd be a target at pick 32 and I've seen mocks with him at the bottom of round one, so to grab him at 93 is nutty. I like Benton too, but view him as the guy with the most limited upside. That being said, Pittsburgh desperately needs to get younger on the D-line, so I get the pick.

I do think the Steelers had a good draft and they sure pulled off a heist to get that top pick in the 2nd rd but they're going to need all this with Kenny Pickett

[Tony Cloninger]

The way Kenny Pickett played and those comeback wins. I don’t know if he’s really that good or the competition was so bad except for the Ravens. And Bal had no offense at all so all you had to do was score 17 points to win.

It’s so much easier to play QB anyways now to begin with.

[WVRed]

The way Kenny Pickett played and those comeback wins. I don’t know if he’s really that good or the competition was so bad except for the Ravens. And Bal had no offense at all so all you had to do was score 17 points to win.

It’s so much easier to play QB anyways now to begin with.Pickett reminds me of Andy Dalton. He's the type of player that has to have a solid supporting cast and an offensive line to be able to be successful. Everything has to be working right or he falls apart.

He's not going to put a team on his back and carry them like Joe Burrow. I'm not saying Pickett can't be successful but he will have to have top flight talent surrounding him to do it.

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[Tony Cloninger]

Pickett reminds me of Andy Dalton. He's the type of player that has to have a solid supporting cast and an offensive line to be able to be successful. Everything has to be working right or he falls apart.

He's not going to put a team on his back and carry them like Joe Burrow. I'm not saying Pickett can't be successful but he will have to have top flight talent surrounding him to do it.

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Interesting to say Dalton. Those Steeler boards. No. I don’t go trolling. They say his ceiling could be Burrow like due to accuracy and leadership. But what do posters on a message board know??!

[Ohayou]

D'Andre Swift traded to Eagles. They're killing it right now.

[SteelSD]

Pickett reminds me of Andy Dalton. He's the type of player that has to have a solid supporting cast and an offensive line to be able to be successful. Everything has to be working right or he falls apart.

He's not going to put a team on his back and carry them like Joe Burrow. I'm not saying Pickett can't be successful but he will have to have top flight talent surrounding him to do it.

Pickett isn't Joe Burrow, for sure. Anyone saying that is as dumb as those who went to their graves demanding that Carson Palmer was a better QB than Big Ben.

But I think he's very likely going to be better than Dalton. Pittsburgh was handicapped last year- terrible OC (who's still there for some Godforsaken reason), the OL was absolutely terrible for the first half of the season, which resulted in zero running game. Well, and Pickett was a rookie who was thrust into a starting role really quickly. He clearly needed more work progressing through his reads, the playcalling rarely sent anyone over the middle of the field. When they did, it was clear that Pickett needed more experience working through opposing schemes. Opportunities, yes. Work-in-progress, sure. But there's enough talent there to be more than a game manager like Dalton.

But I'm pretty sure that just about any QB needs solid skill position players and a good offensive line to become the best version of themselves.

And, in the draft, the Steelers selected Nick Herbig, which I could have called last night.

[Oxilon]

Pickett isn't Joe Burrow, for sure. Anyone saying that is as dumb as those who went to their graves demanding that Carson Palmer was a better QB than Big Ben.

But I think he's very likely going to be better than Dalton. Pittsburgh was handicapped last year- terrible OC (who's still there for some Godforsaken reason), the OL was absolutely terrible for the first half of the season, which resulted in zero running game. Well, and Pickett was a rookie who was thrust into a starting role really quickly. He clearly needed more work progressing through his reads, the playcalling rarely sent anyone over the middle of the field. When they did, it was clear that Pickett needed more experience working through opposing schemes. Opportunities, yes. Work-in-progress, sure. But there's enough talent there to be more than a game manager like Dalton.

But I'm pretty sure that just about any QB needs solid skill position players and a good offensive line to become the best version of themselves.

And, in the draft, the Steelers selected Nick Herbig, which I could have called last night.

^These were the exact discussions Bengals fans had for years with Dalton as their QB. Whether it was the offensive coordinator or a bad offensive line, there was always some excuse to absolve Dalton from any blame (for his defenders). I’m so glad that era is over. I give it two more seasons until the Steelers fan base gets divided over Pickett.

[SteelSD]

^These were the exact discussions Bengals fans had for years with Dalton as their QB. Whether it was the offensive coordinator or a bad offensive line, there was always some excuse to absolve Dalton from any blame (for his defenders). I’m so glad that era is over. I give it two more seasons until the Steelers fan base gets divided over Pickett.

I really don't care about whether or not other Steelers fans are eventually "divided" over Pickett or not. I just know what I see, which, right now, is not that's Pickett's inevitable ceiling is Andy Dalton. You might want it to be, but there are a lot of levels between failure and success that don't house Dalton. We're not going to know which one he lands on after one season.

[WVRed]

^These were the exact discussions Bengals fans had for years with Dalton as their QB. Whether it was the offensive coordinator or a bad offensive line, there was always some excuse to absolve Dalton from any blame (for his defenders). I’m so glad that era is over. I give it two more seasons until the Steelers fan base gets divided over Pickett.

They won't for the simple reason of he's a local product.

A lot of what you posted is already on display through the one Steeler fan in this thread but Pickett is going to get a longer leash because he played for Pitt before the Steelers drafted him.

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[SteelSD]

They won't for the simple reason of he's a local product.

A lot of what you posted is already on display through the one Steeler fan in this thread but Pickett is going to get a longer leash because he played for Pitt before the Steelers drafted him.

LOL. No. And Pickett is from New Jersey. If he ends up being terrible and gets a "longer leash", it's going to be because he's a talented first round pick. Happens all the time. Ask the Browns.

[Sea Ray]

Pickett reminds me of Andy Dalton. He's the type of player that has to have a solid supporting cast and an offensive line to be able to be successful. Everything has to be working right or he falls apart.

He's not going to put a team on his back and carry them like Joe Burrow. I'm not saying Pickett can't be successful but he will have to have top flight talent surrounding him to do it.

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Dalton was never an INT machine. That's Pickett's issue

[SteelSD]

Pickett, who threw exactly one pick during his last seven games (>1 pass attempt), posted a 2.3% INT rate for 2022, which is actually lower (better) than Dalton's career mark of 2.7%.

For the 2022 season, Kenny Pickett, during his very first NFL season, had an INT rate better than that of Matthew Stafford, Josh Allen, Mac Jones, Baker Mayfield, and Andy Dalton.

Other NFL QB's posting INT rates at 2.0% or higher for the 2022-23 season included names like Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Tau Tagovailoa, and Joe Burrow. Over Burrow's 606 pass attempts, the difference between his 2.0% INT rate and Pickett's 2.3% rate is a grand total of two interceptions.

Both Quarterbacks who played in the 2021-2022 Super Bowl produced seasonal INT rates that year higher than Pickett did in his rookie season- Stafford (2.8%) and Burrow (2.7%).

Additionally, Pickett's 2022 INT rate is also equal to or better than the Career rates for the following QB's (Min 1500 Passing Attempts):

-Lamar Jackson (2.30%)
-Drew Brees (2.30%)
-Joe Flacco (2.33%)
-Josh Allen (2.34%)
-Matthew Stafford (2.37%)
-Ben Roethlisberger (2.50%)
-Andrew Luck (2.54%)
-Philip Rivers (2.57%)

Five Super Bowl wins (six appearances) between them, and a combined 95 playoff games. "INT machines".

Nobody is doomed to fail because they threw 9 INT's in a freakin' season, particularly a rookie who does it. Good lord.

[Sea Ray]

Pickett, who threw exactly one pick during his last seven games (>1 pass attempt), posted a 2.3% INT rate for 2022, which is actually lower (better) than Dalton's career mark of 2.7%.

For the 2022 season, Kenny Pickett, during his very first NFL season, had an INT rate better than that of Matthew Stafford, Josh Allen, Mac Jones, Baker Mayfield, and Andy Dalton.

Other NFL QB's posting INT rates at 2.0% or higher for the 2022-23 season included names like Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, Tau Tagovailoa, and Joe Burrow. Over Burrow's 606 pass attempts, the difference between his 2.0% INT rate and Pickett's 2.3% rate is a grand total of two interceptions.

Both Quarterbacks who played in the 2021-2022 Super Bowl produced seasonal INT rates that year higher than Pickett did in his rookie season- Stafford (2.8%) and Burrow (2.7%).

Additionally, Pickett's 2022 INT rate is also equal to or better than the Career rates for the following QB's (Min 1500 Passing Attempts):

-Lamar Jackson (2.30%)
-Drew Brees (2.30%)
-Joe Flacco (2.33%)
-Josh Allen (2.34%)
-Matthew Stafford (2.37%)
-Ben Roethlisberger (2.50%)
-Andrew Luck (2.54%)
-Philip Rivers (2.57%)

Five Super Bowl wins (six appearances) between them, and a combined 95 playoff games. "INT machines".

Nobody is doomed to fail because they threw 9 INT's in a freakin' season, particularly a rookie who does it. Good lord.

I hope the Steelers' front office agrees with you and sticks it out with him. I hope they love him so much they don't look to replace him with someone better. He's currently the worst QB in his division and he's one of the worst in the AFC. Furthermore you're cherrypicking stats here. How many of those QBs you mentioned have more INTs than TDs? Don't you think that's a worthwhile stat to mention?

[SteelSD]

NFL QB's- INT =/> than TD: Rookie Season- just some of the higher profile names...

-Peyton Manning
-Matthew Stafford
-Kerry Collins
-Troy Aikman
-Andrew Luck
-Carson Palmer
-Kirk Cousins (first 14 games over 1st three seasons)
-Jared Goff
-Josh Allen
-Geno Smith
-Trevor Lawrence
-Justin Fields

Just in case anyone thinks that throwing more INT than TD over a QB's first full season's worth of games portends doom, that's also nonsense. It's happened to playoff QB's, Super Bowl winners, Hall of Famers, and quite a few others of varying proficiencies.

And, with that, I really don't have any more interest in continuing to fact check nonsense arguments that are essentially nothing more than someone throwing random numbers against a wall.

[KoryMac5]

I loved the Steelers draft...they were right place right time all 3 days...seemed like when a player was falling they were always up next for the pick.

Washington is interesting he was not even considered by the Bengals...but in the 3rd round I think you have to take a shot at him. He feels Mercedes Lewis to me...which isn't a bad thing.

Loved the Eagles draft too...they set themselves up really well for another run...

Some good insight on the draft from inside Raider HQ

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/01/nfl-draft-2023-raiders-texans-cj-stroud-peter-king-fmia/

[SteelSD]

I loved the Steelers draft...they were right place right time all 3 days...seemed like when a player was falling they were always up next for the pick.

Washington is interesting he was not even considered by the Bengals...but in the 3rd round I think you have to take a shot at him. He feels Mercedes Lewis to me...which isn't a bad thing.

Loved the Eagles draft too...they set themselves up really well for another run...

Some good insight on the draft from inside Raider HQ

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/01/nfl-draft-2023-raiders-texans-cj-stroud-peter-king-fmia/

It was kind of crazy that every round the guy I hoped would fall to Pittsburgh pretty much did.

I also thought that Indy had a great draft. Richardson might be a boom/bust guy at QB sure. But the Colts were hitting on undervalued talent all draft long. Their best run might have been Adabewore, Darius Rush, and Daniel Scott over on three picks across rounds 4 and 5.

[Rdirtypirates]

Nm

[Sea Ray]

I agree with folks who gave the Steelers an A+ draft. Interesting that their over/under for wins this year has been set at 8.5

[Kingspoint]

Of all of the 2023 UDFA's drafted by teams, I like the Vikings' selections the best. LB's Andre Carter II and Ivan Pace should stick around the NFL for many years.

C Alan Ali, TCU
DT Calvin Avery, Illinois
LB Abraham Beauplan, Marshall
OLB Andre Carter II, Army
OL Jacky Chen, Pace
CB C.J. Coldon, Oklahoma
LB Wilson Huber, Cincinnati
WR Cephus Johnson, Southeastern Louisiana
WR Malik Knowles, Kansas State
LB Ivan Pace, Cincinnati
K Jack Podlesny, Georgia
TE Ben Sims, Baylor
WR Thayer Thomas, NC State
CB NaJee Thompson, Georgia Southern
CB Jaylin Williams, Indiana

[Tony Cloninger]

I asked this question on the Bengals thread and it was closed right after that for too many posts.

Why do the Bengals not go after Bearcats players more? Greg Cook was the biggest one. Not much worth getting for many years after that. They got some mediocre ones in the 90s. Even in FA.

Since then not much if any? Lost out on the center Kelce who was drafted very late. I was hoping they would draft Pace in the 7th.

[WVRed]

I asked this question on the Bengals thread and it was closed right after that for too many posts.

Why do the Bengals not go after Bearcats players more? Greg Cook was the biggest one. Not much worth getting for many years after that. They got some mediocre ones in the 90s. Even in FA.

Since then not much if any? Lost out on the center Kelce who was drafted very late. I was hoping they would draft Pace in the 7th.Probably the same reason they hardly go after Ohio State players. Or even Michael Mayer.

Sam Hubbard has probably been the exception to a local player performing well. You want them to succeed, but if they don't it's often someone's job on the line.

Joe Burrow is about the only semi local product I have ever gotten behind because the talent and leadership was there and it was that high and crucial of a pick.

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[KoryMac5]

I asked this question on the Bengals thread and it was closed right after that for too many posts.

Why do the Bengals not go after Bearcats players more? Greg Cook was the biggest one. Not much worth getting for many years after that. They got some mediocre ones in the 90s. Even in FA.

Since then not much if any? Lost out on the center Kelce who was drafted very late. I was hoping they would draft Pace in the 7th.

I had heard they liked the TE Wylie from the writers had Jones not been there that would most have likely been the pick.

[Kingspoint]

I asked this question on the Bengals thread and it was closed right after that for too many posts.

Why do the Bengals not go after Bearcats players more? Greg Cook was the biggest one. Not much worth getting for many years after that. They got some mediocre ones in the 90s. Even in FA.

Since then not much if any? Lost out on the center Kelce who was drafted very late. I was hoping they would draft Pace in the 7th.

They actually talked to Pace at the combine and had him in for one of their local visits. Apparently, they saw enough that he wasn't worth spending $10,000 on, the price of a UDFA.