NBA 2023-2024 Thread [Archive] - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Rojo Rijo

06-23-2023, 07:54 AM

Final outcome of the 2021 Bulls-Magic trade:

Chicago - Nikola Vucevic
Orlando - Wendell Carter Jr., Franz Wagner, Jett Howard (oh and Otto Porter but he only played a total of 3 games for Orlando)

Orlando did very well with that trade. Vucevic is actually the biggest connection to the 2012 Dwight Howard deal. Here are the other pieces:

First Round:
Al Harrington - Played 10 games then waived in the offseason
Aaron Afflalo - 2 solid years then traded back to Denver for Evan Fournier
Moe Harkless - Traded to Portland for nothing - future 2nd rd pick protected 31-55
Josh McRoberts - Traded to Charlotte for Hakim Warrick
Christian Eyenga - Waived
Draft pick - Efrid Payton - 4 decent years before being traded to Phoenix for a 2018 2nd rd pick
*Had a protected 1st from Philadelphia from the deal but this got sent back to the 76ers in the Payton-Sarkic draft swap.
Lakers 1st - Didnt convey as a 1st, turned into 2017 and 2018 seconds.

Next Round:
Evan Fournier - One of the top players for us for like 7 years before then being dealt to Boston for Jeff Teague, along with 2 future 2nd rd picks in 2025 and 2027.
Hakim Warrick - Waived
Pick (Phoenix - Payton deal) - Jarred Vanderbilt - traded to Denver for Justin Jackson and a future 2nd.
2017 2nd (from LAL) - Drafted Wes Iwundu. Played 3 years then signed with Dallas
2018 2nd (from LAL) - Sent to Toronto in the Jeff Weltman deal

Next Round:
Jeff Teague - Waived
Justin Jackson - Never made the NBA, played G-League and Canadian League
The 2nd rd pick from Denver (Vanderbilt deal) was shipped to Charlotte in the 2018 Biyombo-Mozgov swap.

So almost 11 years later Orlando has to show for the Dwight Howard deal:
Wendell Carter Jr.
Franz Wagner
Jett Howard
2025 2nd from Boston
2027 2nd from Boston

Not too bad and a great job by Orlando of still holding so much value from a trade that happened over a decade ago. Even more impressive that the value survived 5 years of Rob Hennigan as the GM, the guy who traded Victor Oladipo and Domantis Sabonis to Oklahoma City for Serge Ibaka only to flip him for Terrence Ross later that next season. That Oladipo/Sabonis package then netted Oklahoma City Paul George, 3 months after Orlando gave Henigan his walking papers.

RedTeamGo!

06-23-2023, 09:07 AM

This was a good draft to have three picks. It's crazy getting a scorer like Sensabaugh at #28.

He plays absolutely no defense and is inconsistent. I watched almost every single one of his games at OSU and I simply do not see it.

BuckeyeRed27

06-23-2023, 09:58 AM

He plays absolutely no defense and is inconsistent. I watched almost every single one of his games at OSU and I simply do not see it.

He’s going to a good situation though. Excellent coach and system to develop. I’m not sure he’s ever going to learn to play defense, but the stuff is there to be an elite offensive player.

I’m mostly excited about Hendricks though. If he can shoot 3s at the nba level at his height he could be special.

06-23-2023, 11:35 AM

He plays absolutely no defense and is inconsistent. I watched almost every single one of his games at OSU and I simply do not see it.

He was a freshman. I assume all of these kids are inconsistent if you watch them every game. Yet he dropped 16.3 ppg and shot 40.5% from 3. Players who can sink contested shots don't grow on trees. Also, I'm guessing Utah will make him play defense. Probably won't be any good at it for a couple of years, but he's got 20+ ppg potential down the road. So, average defense will do just fine if he's a bucket. He's basically their Clarkson replacement if he pans out.

RichRed

06-23-2023, 12:07 PM

One thing about this new look Wizards regime, you can’t say they’re not active. My head is spinning.

klw

06-23-2023, 07:25 PM

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/06/pistons-to-sign-tosan-evbuomwan-to-exhibit-10-deal.html

The Pistons have agreed to a contract with undrafted Princeton forward Tosan Evbuomwan, Michael Scotto of HoopsHype tweets. Evbuomwan is signing an Exhibit 10 deal, Adam Zagoria tweets.

Between the Pistons getting Tosan and having Wiseman, I may have to start following Detroit. This could be a steal of a move.

KoryMac5

06-24-2023, 04:44 PM

One thing about this new look Wizards regime, you can’t say they’re not active. My head is spinning.

Jazz and Mavs both have interest in a sign and trade for Kyle Kuzma....

Kingspoint

06-24-2023, 06:47 PM

Let the Lillard sweepstakes begin.

Sorry, Kingspoint.

It would be the best thing for the franchise. But, for now, Dame is not available and Portland is refusing all calls inquiring about him. If/when Dame requests a trade, they'll accommodate him. For the next two weeks, Portland has a chance to screw up things (sign Grant to twice what he's worth...add a Veteran who'll leave after a year...add a Veteran who is lazy and won't play), but they'll spend until about July 8th trying to upgrade the roster with some Veterans, and then Dame will see what he thinks. He doesn't want to leave if some real effort can be made, and hopefully, he becomes intrigued with the prospect of having Henderson and Sharpe to play with. Summer League will have begun and seeing some of these guys work together (Sharpe won't play in that), one more year for Chauncey to try to not become the NBA's worst Head Coach, and depending who gets added to the team, then he'll have a decision to make. But, until then, Dame is and will be 100% a Blazer.

Portland will get pretty excited (as is Joe Cronin) about the future of Scoot/Shaedon.

06-25-2023, 06:32 PM

Just saw that the Timberwolves agreed to a 3/42 extension with Naz Reid. Totally fair contract in a vacuum. However, the Wolves will be paying their centers $91M next season.

06-26-2023, 12:11 PM

Bill Simmons floated an interesting idea: Dame for KAT.

They'd have to throw Conley and Nurkic in there to balance the contracts, with Minnesota then finding a place to send Nurkic. The Wolves get Dame with Ant and a fairly deep frontcourt. They'd be in the running for a top 4 if Jaden McDaniels is able to stop punching walls. Portland gets great shooting big who might still have his A game when Scoot and Sharpe are ready to start winning.

06-26-2023, 01:56 PM

Atlanta's moving John Collins to the Jazz for Rudy Gay and a future 2nd rounder. It will open up a $25.3M trade exception for the Hawks.

Kingspoint

06-26-2023, 05:01 PM

Dame is meeting with Joe Cronin this afternoon. The exact direction the club goes over the next two weeks will certainly be guided from that meeting. I expect it's something like,...

Joe Cronin: "Let's see what I can compile over the next two weeks (I'm guessing, July 8th), and we'll have another meeting then and go from there.

Dame: "OK. See you in two weeks."

- - - Updated - - -

Atlanta's moving John Collins to the Jazz for Rudy Gay and a future 2nd rounder. It will open up a $25.3M trade exception for the Hawks.

Wow! That's a huge trade exception. They need to resign some of their own, and needed that cap space to do so, also.

Great asset acquired by the Jazz. That will be flippable any time over the next 2-1/2 seasons.

06-26-2023, 08:20 PM

Great asset acquired by the Jazz. That will be flippable any time over the next 2-1/2 seasons.

If Collins can't rediscover his range, he's kind of fringy. I get the Jazz seeing if they can polish him up, but I'm surprised they didn't get more for taking the risk.

Kingspoint

06-26-2023, 09:53 PM

If Collins can't rediscover his range, he's kind of fringy. I get the Jazz seeing if they can polish him up, but I'm surprised they didn't get more for taking the risk.

They bought low, with Collins coming off of a bad season.

Revering4Blue

06-26-2023, 11:54 PM

Atlanta's moving John Collins to the Jazz for Rudy Gay and a future 2nd rounder. It will open up a $25.3M trade exception for the Hawks.

It also opens the four position for Hunter (Bey at 3), which could be interesting and more modernizes the lineup. It also allows for more playing time for Johnson and Griffin. Time to see what you have in those guys.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Kingspoint

06-27-2023, 04:15 PM

It also opens the four position for Hunter (Bey at 3), which could be interesting and more modernizes the lineup. It also allows for more playing time for Johnson and Griffin. Time to see what you have in those guys.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree on Johnson and Griffin. They also have a new Head Coach and they should adjust the roster somewhat towards players that he would work better with. Don't know the relationship with Collins, but Nate had some issues with him, and Collins certainly had a bad season under both coaches. A change of scenery has been what Collins has needed for quite a while.

06-27-2023, 07:02 PM

Kingspoint

06-27-2023, 09:04 PM

There's a rumor floating around that 2022 Celtics 2nd round pick JD Davison has gone through a major growth spurt and is now 6'9". It's been three months since he last played and I find half a foot in that time hard to believe, but even if he's only 6'6", that's a guy with a PG handle and distribution skills along with a big-time vertical. So even if the rumor is partially true, Davison could be a serious sleeper. We'll find out how much truth there is to this once Summer League starts.

There's a lot of phony tweets out there. A few weeks ago, Trendon Watford had to "unconfirm" that Shaedon Sharpe didn't grow three inches and was now 6'-9", from someone who disguised himself as Trendon Watford tweeting the comment.

Mitri

06-27-2023, 10:15 PM

There's a similar rumour about Trevor Keels in the Knicks fanbase, too. He went through a 3" growth spurt and will compete to crack the rotation...

KoryMac5

06-28-2023, 05:35 PM

Rockets set to try and lure Van Fleet with a 2 year 83 million dollar contract...

Not sure I love that deal but they would be a fun team to watch...

Kingspoint

06-28-2023, 06:41 PM

Rockets set to try and lure Van Fleet with a 2 year 83 million dollar contract...

Not sure I love that deal but they would be a fun team to watch...

Would love to see the plans for Toronto get hosed. Toronto negotiates like Mike Brown did back in the '80's. The organization needs to get screwed over.

06-28-2023, 10:45 PM

Rockets set to try and lure Van Fleet with a 2 year 83 million dollar contract...

Not sure I love that deal but they would be a fun team to watch...

FVV made more sense before they drafted Amen Thompson. Are they going to give Thompson the ball? That's what they need to do if he's going to go grow into his best self. FVV can play off ball and act as a secondary ballhandler, like's he's done with Scottie Barnes. Yet where does that leave Jalen Green? And that's not even bringing Kevin Porter, who they're now paying real money, into the equation. Seems like a classic "there's only one ball" situation.

06-28-2023, 10:51 PM

Would love to see the plans for Toronto get hosed. Toronto negotiates like Mike Brown did back in the '80's. The organization needs to get screwed over.

FVV moving on makes it a lot easier for Toronto to pay Poeltl.

Kingspoint

06-29-2023, 12:11 AM

FVV made more sense before they drafted Amen Thompson. Are they going to give Thompson the ball? That's what they need to do if he's going to go grow into his best self. FVV can play off ball and act as a secondary ballhandler, like's he's done with Scottie Barnes. Yet where does that leave Jalen Green? And that's not even bringing Kevin Porter, who they're now paying real money, into the equation. Seems like a classic "there's only one ball" situation.

I don't think Amen Thompson is going to be a better ballplayer than either Tari Eason or Sengun. That's no knock on Thompson. I really wanted the Blazers to draft Eason last season. Thought he was the 2nd best front-court prospect in the draft. Houston is loaded with talent. Thompson is going to find it hard to get minutes there and he's way behind the 8-ball Defensively. Can't see him starting at all next season.

Kingspoint

06-29-2023, 12:19 AM

I don't know how the Blazer are going to get rid of Simons. They are going to have to pay someone to take him and that $26M per year contract he'll be getting the next three seasons.

When the Blazers trade Dame, if it's MIA, they will never take Herro in return. Herro will have to go to another team in a 3-way trade. They are trying to get rid of Guards, not swap a HOFer coming off of his best season for a bench player that makes more than Simons.

Kingspoint

06-29-2023, 12:21 AM

FVV moving on makes it a lot easier for Toronto to pay Poeltl.

It does, for sure, but Trent opted into his last year ($19M, I think), while it's rumored that San Antonio is going to try to get back Poeltl. Would love to see the Blazers take the money they're ready to give Grant and give it to Poeltl, and then try to move Nurkic. Siakam, of course, stated that he's not signing long-term with anyone and wants to end his career in Toronto, so the Raptors have to pay him, too. They over-value all of their players and can't move any of them as a result. They are going to be stuck getting nothing for them in return...all of them, including Anunoby and Siakam. They can't pay everybody. Toronto is mismanaging their roster badly.

Blazers are going to have to include a 1st Rd pick in any package that involves Simons, just to get someone to take him. I don't care what they get in return. Si

06-29-2023, 12:56 AM

I don't think Amen Thompson is going to be a better ballplayer than either Tari Eason or Sengun. That's no knock on Thompson. I really wanted the Blazers to draft Eason last season. Thought he was the 2nd best front-court prospect in the draft. Houston is loaded with talent. Thompson is going to find it hard to get minutes there and he's way behind the 8-ball Defensively. Can't see him starting at all next season.

I think Houston will be pretty miffed if Thompson's not better than Eason. Thompson's got otherworldly ability. I like Eason, but he's not oozing star potential. Thompson's idealized version also should be better than Sengun's idealized version, though if Sengun's idealized version is lights out from 3, then I can see the argument for him.

Yet none of that really matters. Thompson's a PG. He's not competing for minutes with the frontcourt guys. What he needs is the ball and lots of minutes to sharpen his game. It's pointless drafting a kid like this if you're going to lock him in the closet and feed him bread crusts, especially on a team that's not going to be good for at least a couple of more years. This team needs to be investing in its future, not chasing 30 wins.

06-29-2023, 01:10 AM

It does, for sure, but Trent opted into his last year ($19M, I think), while it's rumored that San Antonio is going to try to get back Poeltl. Would love to see the Blazers take the money they're ready to give Grant and give it to Poeltl, and then try to move Nurkic. Siakam, of course, stated that he's not signing long-term with anyone and wants to end his career in Toronto, so the Raptors have to pay him, too. They over-value all of their players and can't move any of them as a result. They are going to be stuck getting nothing for them in return...all of them, including Anunoby and Siakam. They can't pay everybody. Toronto is mismanaging their roster badly.

Toronto's got all kinds of cap flex after this year, and aren't particularly salary-burdened this season with FVV coming off the books. Losing Poeltl would sting. The big thing for them is whether the pay to keep Siakam (1 year remaining) and Anunoby (2 years remaining) or they cash them in for a full rebuild. Toronto's got cards to play. Seems like a fairly standard team in transition. Are you ticked off because you thought they were going to hand over Anunoby to the Blazers and that didn't materialize?

Kingspoint

06-29-2023, 07:19 AM

Toronto's got all kinds of cap flex after this year, and aren't particularly salary-burdened this season with FVV coming off the books. Losing Poeltl would sting. The big thing for them is whether the pay to keep Siakam (1 year remaining) and Anunoby (2 years remaining) or they cash them in for a full rebuild. Toronto's got cards to play. Seems like a fairly standard team in transition. Are you ticked off because you thought they were going to hand over Anunoby to the Blazers and that didn't materialize?

Not at all. Every G. M. around the league is lambasting Toronto for overvalueing their players and some are refusing to deal with them anymore.

I never wanted Siakam or Anunoby. I still don't.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Houston will be pretty miffed if Thompson's not better than Eason. Thompson's got otherworldly ability. I like Eason, but he's not oozing star potential. Thompson's idealized version also should be better than Sengun's idealized version, though if Sengun's idealized version is lights out from 3, then I can see the argument for him.

Yet none of that really matters. Thompson's a PG. He's not competing for minutes with the frontcourt guys. What he needs is the ball and lots of minutes to sharpen his game. It's pointless drafting a kid like this if you're going to lock him in the closet and feed him bread crusts, especially on a team that's not going to be good for at least a couple of more years. This team needs to be investing in its future, not chasing 30 wins.

I think the Rockets make the playoffs in 2023-24. Their future is now.

texasdave

06-29-2023, 07:47 AM

06-29-2023, 09:24 AM

Not at all. Every G. M. around the league is lambasting Toronto for overvalueing their players and some are refusing to deal with them anymore.

I never wanted Siakam or Anunoby. I still don't.

You made posts insisting Portland was going to get Anunoby. While I agree Toronto asked way too much for their guys, what's the worst that happened there? They've still got two quality forwards. Biggest factor for them is whether Barnes bounces back.

I think the Rockets make the playoffs in 2023-24. Their future is now.

You were on a brief Houston kick last season, but they went 22-60 while being 27th in O Rtg and 29th in D Rtg. They were 30th in eFG% and assists. They were 29th in turnovers and 28th in eFG% allowed. Their scoring differential was -7.9. Nothing about that team indicates its time is near. Also, I'm not a Green fan. He's a bad overall player who takes a lot of shots, and he's their nominal ace.

Forget about vaulting any of the eight playoff teams. They'd be hard-pressed to vault OKC, New Orleans, Dallas or Utah.

06-29-2023, 09:31 AM

If Amen Thompson is supposed to soak up PG minutes, along with Kevin Porter, Jr., it kinda makes you wonder why the Rockets would pay max dollars for Fred Van Vleet? To their credit, they want to keep it down to two years. VV does not possess the skill that this Rocket's team needs the most, the ability to effectively put the ball in the basket. His EFG% is not good. Hard pass.

They need to stop giving the ball to Porter. That experiment went nowhere. Maybe he's got a future as a microwave off the bench.

I get them wanting to put some adults in the room, but - like you said - not for that price tag. Though as flawed as the FVV plan would be, it beats backing up the armored car for Kyrie.

06-30-2023, 12:49 AM

WVRed

06-30-2023, 04:22 AM

The gift to online trade speculation that James Harden once again has delivered us intrigue. Supposedly he is opting into the final year of deal at $35.6M with the understanding the team will then move him.

Where will he go? Well, pretty much everywhere is getting speculation. Yet I'm picking Atlanta, where they have a few clubs Mr. Harden likely enjoys visiting. Harden would give them a second star to go with Trae Young (and, yes, I know they might be terrible together, which is why I want it to happen). DeJounte Murray and Bojan Bogdanovic would match the salaries, though Morey might ask for a kicker like A.J. Griffin or Saddiq Bey (or maybe Kobe Bufkin).

Other ideas:

Beard to New Orleans for CJ McCollum

Beard to Cleveland for Darius Garland (though I refuse to believe Cleveland's crazy enough to do that)

Beard to Chicago for some combination I can't quite determine, but I think Chicago might be thirsty for a star

One thing I suspect will be important for the Sixers is getting back a PG, or at least a SG who can distribute a bit. Philly needs somebody who can run with Maxey.How about Harden to Boston and Lillard to Philly? Brogdon and whatever else to Portland to make the salaries work.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

SteelSD

06-30-2023, 07:20 AM

The gift to online trade speculation that James Harden once again has delivered us intrigue. Supposedly he is opting into the final year of deal at $35.6M with the understanding the team will then move him.

Where will he go? Well, pretty much everywhere is getting speculation. Yet I'm picking Atlanta, where they have a few clubs Mr. Harden likely enjoys visiting. Harden would give them a second star to go with Trae Young (and, yes, I know they might be terrible together, which is why I want it to happen). DeJounte Murray and Bojan Bogdanovic would match the salaries, though Morey might ask for a kicker like A.J. Griffin or Saddiq Bey (or maybe Kobe Bufkin).

Other ideas:

Beard to New Orleans for CJ McCollum

Beard to Cleveland for Darius Garland (though I refuse to believe Cleveland's crazy enough to do that)

Beard to Chicago for some combination I can't quite determine, but I think Chicago might be thirsty for a star

One thing I suspect will be important for the Sixers is getting back a PG, or at least a SG who can distribute a bit. Philly needs somebody who can run with Maxey.

I like your DeJounte Murray idea (wish he could shoot though), and I've long wanted to see what Zach LaVine could do in a Sixers uniform RE: Chicago, but most pundits are drawing a line to the Clippers. Norm Powell and Marcus Morris would be a salary match, but that's not what I want coming back. There's probably a three-team deal out there that'll fit. I believe there are some timing salary-match considerations that would entice teams to move quickly (like today), but I'm not sure how feasible that is. It's possible that Tobias Harris could be involved- another expiring contract- but that could be a wish list thought rather than a reality.

06-30-2023, 09:28 AM

I like your DeJounte Murray idea (wish he could shoot though), and I've long wanted to see what Zach LaVine could do in a Sixers uniform RE: Chicago, but most pundits are drawing a line to the Clippers. Norm Powell and Marcus Morris would be a salary match, but that's not what I want coming back. There's probably a three-team deal out there that'll fit. I believe there are some timing salary-match considerations that would entice teams to move quickly (like today), but I'm not sure how feasible that is. It's possible that Tobias Harris could be involved- another expiring contract- but that could be a wish list thought rather than a reality.

I was looking at the Clippers and thinking maybe something around Powell (who won a title with Nurse) and Terance Mann (possibly with a RoCo return), though it would hinge on Philly thinking Mann's got the potential to take the next step.

06-30-2023, 09:31 AM

How about Harden to Boston and Lillard to Philly? Brogdon and whatever else to Portland to make the salaries work.

Interesting idea. Though if Boston can put together a package around Brogdon that nets them Lillard, then why not just get Lillard?

BuckeyeRed27

06-30-2023, 10:06 AM

The gift to online trade speculation that James Harden once again has delivered us intrigue. Supposedly he is opting into the final year of deal at $35.6M with the understanding the team will then move him.

Where will he go? Well, pretty much everywhere is getting speculation. Yet I'm picking Atlanta, where they have a few clubs Mr. Harden likely enjoys visiting. Harden would give them a second star to go with Trae Young (and, yes, I know they might be terrible together, which is why I want it to happen). DeJounte Murray and Bojan Bogdanovic would match the salaries, though Morey might ask for a kicker like A.J. Griffin or Saddiq Bey (or maybe Kobe Bufkin).

Other ideas:

Beard to New Orleans for CJ McCollum

Beard to Cleveland for Darius Garland (though I refuse to believe Cleveland's crazy enough to do that)

Beard to Chicago for some combination I can't quite determine, but I think Chicago might be thirsty for a star

One thing I suspect will be important for the Sixers is getting back a PG, or at least a SG who can distribute a bit. Philly needs somebody who can run with Maxey.

M2 I think you know I both like and respect you, but it pains me to let you know that I have been forced to block you for that Garland trade suggestion.

06-30-2023, 10:31 AM

M2 I think you know I both like and respect you, but it pains me to let you know that I have been forced to block you for that Garland trade suggestion.

Totally understood. Even though you can't read this, that would definitely be a grand theft scenario for Philly. That's one of those "get the owner drunk and see if he goes for it" offers. You could have JAMES HARDEN!

SteelSD

06-30-2023, 11:40 AM

Totally understood. Even though you can't read this, that would definitely be a grand theft scenario for Philly. That's one of those "get the owner drunk and see if he goes for it" offers. You could have JAMES HARDEN!

I'd like Garland, but I'd accept Mobley. If Bball Paul leaves, Philly will need a backup big. ;-)

BuckeyeRed27

06-30-2023, 12:14 PM

I'd like Garland, but I'd accept Mobley. If Bball Paul leaves, Philly will need a backup big. ;-)

Don’t make me turn into Mutombo with the blocks today Steel!

KoryMac5

06-30-2023, 04:21 PM

I am hearing big trades percolating in Chicago via Twitter…no other reason Drummond would opt in to a 3.6 million dollar contract unless he’s a throw in.

06-30-2023, 05:31 PM

I am hearing big trades percolating in Chicago via Twitter…no other reason Drummond would opt in to a 3.6 million dollar contract unless he’s a throw in.

That's a potential Harden destination.

Kingspoint

06-30-2023, 06:53 PM

That's a potential Harden destination.

Only way the Blazers are getting rid of Simons is to swap him for DeRozan and work out the details.

KoryMac5

06-30-2023, 07:50 PM

06-30-2023, 08:57 PM

Kyrie back to Dallas 3 yrs 126mil
Gabe Vincent 3 yrs 33 million Lakers

Bruce Brown cashes in 2 years 45 million Pacers

Cam Johnson 4 for 108 staying with the Nets
Poeltl staying in Toronto
Middleton staying with the Bucks
Grant stays in Portland for 5 yrs 160
Kuzma 4yrs 102 back to the Wiz

That Grant contract is hefty. Sacto kept HarBar Superstar for 3/54 and the Dubs kept Draymond for 4/100.

Nice moves by the Lakers getting Vincent and Taurean Prince (1/4.5)

Also nice work by the Wolves getting Shake Milton (2/10) and Troy Brown.

texasdave

06-30-2023, 09:10 PM

Rockets land Fred Van Vleet for 3 seasons at max dollars. Van Vleet is a good player, but not a max dollar player. https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/06/rockets-to-sign-fred-vanvleet-to-three-year-contract.html

06-30-2023, 09:14 PM

The Rockets handed FVV 3/130. That's an own goal.

And Toronto replaced him with Dennis Schroder for 2/26. I feel like only one of those GMs read Moneyball.

06-30-2023, 09:47 PM

Shouldn't get lost in the shuffle that the Nets sent Joe Harris along with two 2nd rounders to the Pistons just to get rid of his $19.9M contract. That keeps the Nets comfortably under the tax level.

KoryMac5

06-30-2023, 09:48 PM

The Rockets handed FVV 3/130. That's an own goal.

And Toronto replaced him with Dennis Schroder for 2/26. I feel like only one of those GMs read Moneyball.

Rockets are offering on Brook Lopez and Dillion Brooks as well…

- - - Updated - - -

Shouldn't get lost in the shuffle that the Nets sent Joe Harris along with two 2nd rounders to the Pistons just to get rid of his $19.9M contract. That keeps the Nets comfortably under the tax level.

They desperately wanted to keep Cam Johnson…the new CBA is causing some teams to make tough decisions.

06-30-2023, 10:09 PM

They desperately wanted to keep Cam Johnson…the new CBA is causing some teams to make tough decisions.

And they kept Johnson at a fairly decent price. I'd have gnawed off a couple fingers to get rid of Harris too. He's pretty bad.

06-30-2023, 10:35 PM

Oshae Brissett strategically played all his best games against the Celtics, so they decided to sign him.

07-01-2023, 12:59 AM

Max contracts for Desmond Bane and Tyrese Halliburton? I get the argument for Halliburton, but $52M per year is the elite of the elite. Bane just doesn't strike me as a max player. He really good, but there's a lot of really good players in the NBA and they can't all get the max.

RiverfrontRed

07-01-2023, 01:23 AM

Bourgeois Zee

07-01-2023, 09:12 AM

The Lakers have picked up a couple of guys-- Taurean Prince and Gabe Vincent-- who should help. That team, if healthy, is going to be a problem. (Health is questionable.)

Strus to Cleveland is a sneaky good move. He's going to be able to get good looks playing with either Mitchell or Garland. (I'm wondering if he can play the wing for the Cavs in a three-guard lineup.)

Seth Curry back to Dallas along with Richaun Holmes is also going to help. Doncic as a ball-dominant PF plays better, IMO, than PG Doncic. Pairing him with Kyrie and Curry in the backcourt, Hardaway at the wing, and Holmes at center should provide some decent scoring. Not sure who defends in that group, but they'll be fun to watch, at any rate.

Red Oak

07-01-2023, 09:38 AM

Some crazy numbers signed for today! Role players signing for $20-25 a year. Out of curiosity, I looked up the top salaries in the WNBA, the league they keep trying to force on us, and their top players make $200K a year. As in all sports, I'm sure that the all time greats of the NBA from yesteryear wish they were playing today.

What's your take on who you think was the biggest signing?
Any surprises to you?

I'm a big Suns fan and they picked up a couple nice role players today. I have a feeling they aren't done.

I'm a lifelong suns fan too. :beerme:

Watanabe and Diop to the Suns were both good moves, IMO. Yuta 51% on 3s from the corner last season...he's going to have lots of open looks in Phoenix. I think Vogel is going to have an attacking defense next year with the athletic players in their prime that they are signing. I was iffy at first when they got Beale, but now it makes a lot of sense.

The salaries in the NBA are ridiculous and it's hard for me to even imagine what being even a mid-level guy must feel like in that league.

Bill Burr's bit on the WNBA is quite funny, if you have never heard it.

07-01-2023, 10:02 AM

Umm, we have a whole NBA thread...

RiverfrontRed

07-01-2023, 10:06 AM

I'm a lifelong suns fan too. :beerme:

Watanabe and Diop to the Suns were both good moves, IMO. Yuta 51% on 3s from the corner last season...he's going to have lots of open looks in Phoenix. I think Vogel is going to have an attacking defense next year with the athletic players in their prime that they are signing. I was iffy at first when they got Beale, but now it makes a lot of sense.

The salaries in the NBA are ridiculous and it's hard for me to even imagine what being even a mid-level guy must feel like in that league.

Bill Burr's bit on the WNBA is quite funny, if you have never heard it.

Do you think they should trade Ayton? For me, I really want to see what Vogel can do with him. He's got all the skills, but he's more of a finesse player.

RiverfrontRed

07-01-2023, 10:11 AM

Umm, we have a whole NBA thread...

Are you talking about the one with Wembanyama in the title? I assumed that was specific to the player or the draft.

Red Oak

07-01-2023, 10:21 AM

Do you think they should trade Ayton? For me, I really want to see what Vogel can do with him. He's got all the skills, but he's more of a finesse player.

I did before they signed all these athletic guys who could have made a lot more money elsewhere. I think most Suns fans are frustrated with DA and the way he can disengage from the game. Some would say he is soft, but I agree with you that the correct term for him is finesse.

I really think that a lot of his disengagement stemmed from how he was only involved in the game flow when CP3 was on the court, otherwise he looked out of place most of the time. I really believe Vogel is going to get more out of him in that respect by how they are going to play defense. I see them doing a lot of running off of their D next season.

So, at first I thought they would not be able to get the quality of players they just signed because of DA's contract and they should trade, but it turns out guys want to go to Phoenix and have that spotlight for a year or two on the cheap to possibly net that big contract like Bruce Brown, Max Struss and Gabe Vincent just did.

Now I am firmly in the camp of letting Vogel fine tune DA's game in his system. I think Monty is a really stubborn dude and it just went sour with him and DA...as well as his inherent inability to make coaching adjustments quick enough.

I was pumped when they hired Vogel, I thought he was the best guy out there and that he got railroaded out of LA because that team had chemistry issues.

07-01-2023, 10:58 AM

I like the Metu signing for the Suns. He might be a good fit with their four big money guys. Damion Lee is kind of meh. Has a good night every now and then, but disappears more often than not. Bates-Diop, Watanabe and Eubanks are spare parts. Phoenix needs playoff rotation players.

Strus and Niang to Cleveland is interesting stuff. As is the Kings picking up EuroLeague MVP Sasha Vezenkov. Jaxson Hayes is a good bit of business for the Lakers.

There's speculation the Spurs are going to offer Austin Reaves $25.5M, which might force the Lakers to choose between Reaves and D'Angelo Russell.

07-01-2023, 11:39 AM

Is there any way the Kyrie Irving contract (3/126) goes well for the Mavs?

Puffy

07-01-2023, 12:09 PM

Dame requests trade. Any way the Heat don't get him?

I freaking hate the Heat.

RiverfrontRed

07-01-2023, 12:19 PM

Dame requests trade. Any way the Heat don't get him?

I freaking hate the Heat.

Other teams may have more to offer.

KoryMac5

07-01-2023, 01:06 PM

Is there any way the Kyrie Irving contract (3/126) goes well for the Mavs?

Signing him for 3 years helps limit the damage if he goes full Kyrie...also makes moving him off that contract easier.

I was worried the Mavs were going the 5 yr max...

07-01-2023, 01:08 PM

Dame requests trade. Any way the Heat don't get him?

I freaking hate the Heat.

So Portland just handed a giant bag to Jerami Grant and then Dame asks out? That is incredible.

Miami's been my guess for Dame for a few months now, but the idea of KAT for Dame kind of fascinates me. I think that's a better deal for Portland.

KoryMac5

07-01-2023, 01:10 PM

Other teams may have more to offer.

Knicks fans are losing their minds this AM...Barret, Toppin, Quickley and picks for Dame would be more attractive than what Miami could offer. Rumor is he wouldn't mind the Spurs as well but I don't see that happening.

Does a backcourt of Dame and Brunson move the needle for them...

Kingspoint

07-01-2023, 01:22 PM

It's best for Dame and the franchise, but it's disgusting what the morons Jody Allen and Bert Kolde have done with the franchise since Paul died (and while Paul was living as Kolde had a lot of pull on player decisions). Two morons running a franchise to get their kicks out of life just so they can sit at the adult table (they have to go back to the children's table and lose their toy once the team is sold, which is why the team isn't being sold) and pretend like they are important people (even though everyone laughs at their socially-inept personalities behind their backs). It's sad that Dame was treated so poorly by them and that Trail Blazer fans were treated and contine to be treated so poorly by them. Their moronic social ineptness prevents them from having any empathy for others. They are literally socially-inept creatures of the lowest form and scum on the face of the Earth.

Great wishes, of course, go to Dame and whichever franchise he enriches and will be appreciated and given the respect he deserves, which should be Miami (even though the Nets have so much more to offer, all of which the Kolde and Allen will screw all of this up, too).

Kingspoint

07-01-2023, 01:25 PM

So Portland just handed a giant bag to Jerami Grant and then Dame asks out? That is incredible.

Miami's been my guess for Dame for a few months now, but the idea of KAT for Dame kind of fascinates me. I think that's a better deal for Portland.

Grant knew Dame was going to leave. They just spent last week together in France and got back Sunday Night. Grant took the overpayment gladly. He doesn't care.

Never mind about any "speculations" about where Dame is going. There are two teams and only two teams he'll play for....Miami and the Nets, with the Miami culture being his preferred choice. He has no interest in Phoenix, the Knicks, Philadelphia, or anyone else. It's Miami or New Jersey, with Miami the likely place because it's a much better organization.

- - - Updated - - -

Other teams may have more to offer.

Other teams do have more to offer, but that doesn't matter. They'll send Dame to where he wants to go, unless Miami is insulting with their offer, then it will be the Nets. That's it. Those are the two teams and only two teams they'll take offers for him.

- - - Updated - - -

Dame requests trade. Any way the Heat don't get him?

I freaking hate the Heat.

Yes. If the Heat insult the Blazers with an offer, then he goes to the Nets.

07-01-2023, 01:58 PM

Grant knew Dame was going to leave. They just spent last week together in France and got back Sunday Night. Grant took the overpayment gladly. He doesn't care.

That's my point. No way Portland makes that deal if Dame is 100% out. Sounds like Dame just played them. I'm thinking that gives the Blazers license to send Dame wherever they get the best offer and to hell with what he wants.

Mitri

07-01-2023, 02:02 PM

Knicks fans are losing their minds this AM...Barret, Toppin, Quickley and picks for Dame would be more attractive than what Miami could offer. Rumor is he wouldn't mind the Spurs as well but I don't see that happening.

Does a backcourt of Dame and Brunson move the needle for them...

Yes. They’d need to find a big wing for the rotation. Dame, JB, Grimes, Randle and Robinson, plus Hart, McBride, and Hartenstein. Not a lot of depth after that trade, but I think I like Grimes as much as any of the three being traded.

Also, Obi and Scoot together would be a blast to watch.

07-01-2023, 02:03 PM

Does a backcourt of Dame and Brunson move the needle for them...

Do the Knicks care if it moves the needle? I assume they'd do the deal just to be seen as a prestige location.

Kingspoint

07-01-2023, 02:25 PM

Well, my Mom died three years ago today, so may as well have Dame depart, too, on this day.

I'm no longer a fan of the Portland Trail Blazers until the franchise gets sold, and only if it's sold to someone who keeps the team in Portland.

The franchise has gone downhill every year since Paul Allen bought the franchise. Hundreds of thousands of fans left forever over the years since then because of Paul Allen's insensitivity to other human beings. I was one of the few to remain being close friends with hundreds of people who worked for the franchise over the years. I watched in disgust how each of them were individually treated and how season ticket holders and non-season ticket holders were treated poorly over the decades. Jody Allen is worse than her brother, while his buddy Bert Kolde was worse, too.

If the franchise moved to Seattle, I wouldn't care. It hasn't been an Oregon franchise for decades now. Their radio announcer for a very long time who took over gracefully and fantasticaly for Bill Schoneley (forced out by Paul Allen and anyone else who voiced their opinion), Brian Wheeler, had to have a gofundme page to help pay for his medical issues over the last couple of seasons. You'd think they'd take care of him a little bit, but no.

Every respectful person who passionately cared about this franchise left a long time ago, many of course, who have left this Earth.

I'm happy for Dame that he, too, is leaving this inept and socially disgraceful, once proud and well-run, franchise.

- - - Updated - - -

Do the Knicks care if it moves the needle? I assume they'd do the deal just to be seen as a prestige location.

Dame doesn't want to go to the Knicks, so he won't go there. Don't know how many ways it can be said.

Kingspoint

07-01-2023, 02:27 PM

That's my point. No way Portland makes that deal if Dame is 100% out. Sounds like Dame just played them. I'm thinking that gives the Blazers license to send Dame wherever they get the best offer and to hell with what he wants.

Of course they make that deal. That's how inept they are. Dame doesn't "play people". Are you really that clueless about his personality? He's the most respected person in the NBA by any Head Coach. He doesn't treat people that way, even if they treat him poorly.

07-01-2023, 03:16 PM

Dame doesn't want to go to the Knicks, so he won't go there. Don't know how many ways it can be said.

I don't think he's got any control over it. His leverage was that Portland might have wanted to do right by him. Seeing that he strung them along until after they shelled out to keep Grant, I'm thinking doing right by him is out the window. He'll go where they trade him.

07-01-2023, 03:18 PM

Of course they make that deal. That's how inept they are. Dame doesn't "play people". Are you really that clueless about his personality? He's the most respected person in the NBA by any Head Coach. He doesn't treat people that way, even if they treat him poorly.

He literally just did it. No way Portland signs Grant if they think Dame's going to insist on a trade. Dame waited until after Grant got his payday and then requested the trade. IMO, that works out great for Grant, not so great for Dame calling his shot.

KoryMac5

07-01-2023, 04:07 PM

Sounds like Brooklyn isn’t interested…if it’s just Miami expect Pennies on the dollar from Riley.

Mitri

07-01-2023, 04:10 PM

Obi to Pacers. Good opportunity for him.

KoryMac5

07-01-2023, 04:18 PM

Pacers picked up Toppin for 2 second round picks nice move for them…

07-01-2023, 04:40 PM

Obi to Pacers. Good opportunity for him.

Pacers picked up Toppin for 2 second round picks nice move for them…

Nice work by the Pacers. Scratching my head about why the Knicks did that.

Mitri

07-01-2023, 05:39 PM

Nice work by the Pacers. Scratching my head about why the Knicks did that.

Guess they still love Randle and they needed to start deciding on who to pay out of Grimes, Quickley and Obi. Obi is the worst shooter and defender (by far) of the three. Knicks are being cautious with contracts and keeping their pick stockpile dry.

Interested to see their next move. I’d love to get Aunonoby and mostly run it back.

KoryMac5

07-01-2023, 05:55 PM

Nice work by the Pacers. Scratching my head about why the Knicks did that.

I saw on twitter someone said he ran out of godson's to sign...

Mitri

07-01-2023, 06:36 PM

I saw on twitter someone said he ran out of godson's to sign...

He didn’t play for Villanova

texasdave

07-01-2023, 06:36 PM

Mitri

07-01-2023, 07:03 PM

The Rockets have spent over 200 million on free agents, and have made their team worse. Okay, maybe not worse, but certainly not substantially better. Fred Van Vleet three years at max dollars. Thumbs down. Dillon Brooks four years/80 million. Thumbs down.

Adding gritty vets to the youth core? They’ll be better. They’ll certainly be entertaining. The Brooks deal is awful. I get the FVV signing, point guards like him can really move the needle.

KoryMac5

07-01-2023, 07:12 PM

Heat are offering/prepared to offer Hero, Duncan Robinson and picks. They don’t want to give Caleb Martin.

Cronin says Portland is looking for a superstar package…

Mitri

07-01-2023, 08:34 PM

Knicks sign Divencenzo. I like it. Second unit will be small but possibly devastating.

Puffy

07-02-2023, 09:38 AM

Knicks sign Divencenzo. I like it. Second unit will be small but possibly devastating.

So the Obi trade was actually him for 2 second round picks and Donte. They need shooting and Thibs refused to play Toppin and Randle together, so I guess this makes sense. They stay out of luxury tax, so they got that going for them, which is nice

KoryMac5

07-02-2023, 04:27 PM

Westbrook back to the Clippers...2 years 7.8 million. I actually like this deal for LA...getting an older Russ on a manageable contract is a good move.

Sabonis restructures his contract in Sac 217 for 5 years...

KJ Martin to the Clippers for 2 2nds

Brooks is a sign and trade between the Grizz and Rockets...Grizz wanted a trade exception...get the difference between Brooks and Josh Christophers salary,

Dante Exum is back in the league with Dallas...

RiverfrontRed

07-03-2023, 10:39 AM

I did before they signed all these athletic guys who could have made a lot more money elsewhere. I think most Suns fans are frustrated with DA and the way he can disengage from the game. Some would say he is soft, but I agree with you that the correct term for him is finesse.

I really think that a lot of his disengagement stemmed from how he was only involved in the game flow when CP3 was on the court, otherwise he looked out of place most of the time. I really believe Vogel is going to get more out of him in that respect by how they are going to play defense. I see them doing a lot of running off of their D next season.

So, at first I thought they would not be able to get the quality of players they just signed because of DA's contract and they should trade, but it turns out guys want to go to Phoenix and have that spotlight for a year or two on the cheap to possibly net that big contract like Bruce Brown, Max Struss and Gabe Vincent just did.

Now I am firmly in the camp of letting Vogel fine tune DA's game in his system. I think Monty is a really stubborn dude and it just went sour with him and DA...as well as his inherent inability to make coaching adjustments quick enough.

I was pumped when they hired Vogel, I thought he was the best guy out there and that he got railroaded out of LA because that team had chemistry issues.

I agree re his usage. I liked Monty, thought he was a great guy (still do), but I became convinced that he was passive-aggressive and his style was hindering DA. I think Vogel will push Ayton and turn him into a super-role player. He has way too much talent to give away. And compared to this year's signings, his contract is team-friendly. Out of all the changes, I think I'm looking forward to seeing how DA plays the most. I also really like their FA pickups. If they can stay healthy...

Red Oak

07-04-2023, 09:05 AM

I agree re his usage. I liked Monty, thought he was a great guy (still do), but I became convinced that he was passive-aggressive and his style was hindering DA. I think Vogel will push Ayton and turn him into a super-role player. He has way too much talent to give away. And compared to this year's signings, his contract is team-friendly. Out of all the changes, I think I'm looking forward to seeing how DA plays the most. I also really like their FA pickups. If they can stay healthy...

Agreed.

Health will be key, as usual, but I feel way better about their depth already. If Vogel can unlock 2021 playoff Ayton then I think they have as good a shot as anyone. First time I can remember being this pumped for a Suns season in July.

07-04-2023, 10:43 AM

Agreed.

Health will be key, as usual, but I feel way better about their depth already. If Vogel can unlock 2021 playoff Ayton then I think they have as good a shot as anyone. First time I can remember being this pumped for a Suns season in July.

Who among the guys they picked up do you think are going to make a meaningful contribution?

And is acquiring Bradley Beal compatible with playing better team defense?

KoryMac5

07-05-2023, 02:31 PM

07-05-2023, 03:07 PM

Dallas is desperately trying to unload contracts...rumor is they love Grant Williams and want to make an offer.

Rumors continue to swirl about Jaylen Brown for Dame...its Twitter so take that for what its worth...

Seems like keeping Brown would be an imperative if you were trading for Dame.

Also seems like any team that would take Dallas' dead salary so it could offer more than the mid-level exception for Grant Williams would just plunk down an offer for Grant Williams. Isn't that a smarter more than becoming the Mavericks' trash dump? Also will be surprised if the Celtics don't match on Williams. If someone was going to pay stupid money for him that already would have happened.

KoryMac5

07-05-2023, 03:48 PM

Seems like keeping Brown would be an imperative if you were trading for Dame.

Also seems like any team that would take Dallas' dead salary so it could offer more than the mid-level exception for Grant Williams would just plunk down an offer for Grant Williams. Isn't that a smarter more than becoming the Mavericks' trash dump? Also will be surprised if the Celtics don't match on Williams. If someone was going to pay stupid money for him that already would have happened.

Hornets were rumored to be preparing a sheet on Williams but nothing came out of it...

Mavs pivoted to Thybulle...I would expect Portland to match.

KoryMac5

07-05-2023, 10:50 PM

Mavs get Williams in a 3 team deal…he inks 4 for 54 million with Dallas.

Nice move by the Mavs.

07-05-2023, 11:52 PM

Mavs get Williams in a 3 team deal…he inks 4 for 54 million with Dallas.

Nice move by the Mavs.

Yep, good bit of business. $13.5M aav is only a hair above the mid-level. So they don't have to break the bank for him. Plus, they don't have to pay Reggie Bullock. What confuses is why the Spurs did this. How about they add Williams for that amount instead of paying Bullock all for a pick swap in 2030 that may not materialize and a couple of seconds that are fully "so what" assets. Wouldn't Williams be a useful young vet to go with their kids?

KoryMac5

07-06-2023, 06:16 AM

Yep, good bit of business. $13.5M aav is only a hair above the mid-level. So they don't have to break the bank for him. Plus, they don't have to pay Reggie Bullock. What confuses is why the Spurs did this. How about they add Williams for that amount instead of paying Bullock all for a pick swap in 2030 that may not materialize and a couple of seconds that are fully "so what" assets. Wouldn't Williams be a useful young vet to go with their kids?

Could be SA was playing the long game with the swap of a 1 in 2030..a pick swap in 2030 doesn't seem big right now but could have a massive effect if Luka ever walks.

07-06-2023, 09:38 AM

Could be SA was playing the long game with the swap of a 1 in 2030..a pick swap in 2030 doesn't seem big right now but could have a massive effect if Luka ever walks.

Maybe, but Luka walk and the Dallas could cycle back to the top with some new superhuman by the time 2030 rolls around. This move was a little too Hinkie for my tastes.

Boston Red

07-06-2023, 10:21 AM

Can someone explain this stupid in-season tournament thing they're doing in Vegas where they'll be playing an exhibition "championship" game?!?

Rojo Rijo

07-06-2023, 01:06 PM

Can someone explain this stupid in-season tournament thing they're doing in Vegas where they'll be playing an exhibition "championship" game?!?

Full details coming out Saturday. Looks like teams will be split into groups with single elimination games occurring over the first 6 weeks of the regular season then a Final Four taking place Dec 7th and 9th. Each player for winning team gets like 500K I think.

07-06-2023, 01:50 PM

Can someone explain this stupid in-season tournament thing they're doing in Vegas where they'll be playing an exhibition "championship" game?!?

It's designed to give teams more than one thing to shoot for. Works in soccer and that's the most popular team sport in the world. It's like holiday tournaments for HS and college basketball. If they do it well, people will care. Would like to see them use the ASG scoring format for the tournament to really make it feel like something different.

KoryMac5

07-12-2023, 10:20 AM

Shams reports both the Clippers and Celtics back channeled Dame and he is adamant about only playing for the Heat.

07-12-2023, 10:36 AM

Shams reports both the Clippers and Celtics back channeled Dame and he is adamant about only playing for the Heat.

He might get his wish. Then again, Portland surely doesn't care and another team might not either. Ultimately, if he wants to make the $200+ million remaining on his contract, he'll have to play for whoever holds his contract. For instance, I expect Daryl Morey is working overtime to move James Harden to Atlanta (holding a $25M trade exception from the John Collins deal) and put together a package that can land Dame.

KoryMac5

07-12-2023, 11:09 AM

He might get his wish. Then again, Portland surely doesn't care and another team might not either. Ultimately, if he wants to make the $200+ million remaining on his contract, he'll have to play for whoever holds his contract. For instance, I expect Daryl Morey is working overtime to move James Harden to Atlanta (holding a $25M trade exception from the John Collins deal) and put together a package that can land Dame.

Portland asked for Maxey and Morey supposedly said he is not available...that was the rumor anyway.

07-12-2023, 11:58 AM

Portland asked for Maxey and Morey supposedly said he is not available...that was the rumor anyway.

I think the path for Philly is to rope in a 3rd team (maybe even a 4th). That's the way it can keep Maxey to play with Dame. It all hinges on what Harden can fetch.

dubc47834

07-14-2023, 08:59 AM

For the IU folks out there, Trayce Jackson-Davis looked real good yesterday in his 1st game. The Dubs may have gotten a really good late 2nd round steal!

Rojo Rijo

07-25-2023, 12:27 PM

07-25-2023, 01:09 PM

NBA franchises make some of the stupidest decisions sometimes.

Boston giving Jaylen "no left hand" Brown a 5 year 304 million dollar supermax deal.

Is there any other sport where a player can have a major flaw in their game exposed in the playoffs and turn around and be given as big a contract as possible.

NBA is without a doubt the King of bad contracts in professional sports.

Brown uses his left constantly. The Celtics, and Brown in particular, are always doing the lefthand meme when they finish from that side. He's got dribbling in traffic issues, but every player has strengths and weaknesses. Brown was 2nd team All-NBA, went 26.6/6.9/3.5 on a .550 eFG%, and he went 22.7/5.6/3.4 on a .551 eFG% in the playoffs. He had a clunker against the Heat, mostly from behind the arc, but he was playing with a right hand that was torn open. His playoff resume (.548 eFG%) looks pretty good next to guys like Chris Paul, James Harden and Steve Nash - all of whom won MVPs in their careers and had a habit of crashing out in the playoffs.

So what's the complaint exactly? He's a top player on a top team who's been to the conference finals in 5 of the 6 seasons he's participated in the playoffs (and the team's only first round exit was the one year he wasn't healthy for the playoffs), but he hasn't had a signature game in an NBA title clinching game? How is that the standard? If you're making a list of the 20 best players in the NBA right now, Brown's on it. I don't know that he will get over that last hump, but for damn sure he's made it to the last hump and he's probably going to have multiple chances to get over it. I assume you'd be over the moon if Paolo and/or Franz can have Brown-level problems in the future. In fact, they'll probably get max deals before they get anywhere close to Brown's level of achievement.

BuckeyeRed27

07-25-2023, 01:11 PM

07-25-2023, 01:32 PM

The problem isn’t with Brown, it’s with the Super Max. It essentially punishes teams for drafting well.

Teams should be able to pay their guys that earn it, but not have it be crippling to the cap.

I'd definitely like to see a cap rebate for teams for signing players they've drafted or had for 5+ years. Maybe keep the pay structure the way it is, but only count 50% toward the cap?

SteelSD

07-25-2023, 01:55 PM

I'd definitely like to see a cap rebate for teams for signing players they've drafted or had for 5+ years. Maybe keep the pay structure the way it is, but only count 50% toward the cap?

I'd apply it to the cap the way it is currently. After all, it's not just Brown and Tatum pushing the Celtics into luxury tax land. But I would exempt at least part of the contract from counting toward the luxury tax bill, which might give the more frugal owners incentive to reward players for the kind of service you're talking about (if they don't trade them first, of course).

BuckeyeRed27

07-25-2023, 02:13 PM

I'd apply it to the cap the way it is currently. After all, it's not just Brown and Tatum pushing the Celtics into luxury tax land. But I would exempt at least part of the contract from counting toward the luxury tax bill, which might give the more frugal owners incentive to reward players for the kind of service you're talking about (if they don't trade them first, of course).

Yeah either way, I think it would have essentially the same impact.

Rojo Rijo

07-26-2023, 07:34 AM

Brown uses his left constantly. The Celtics, and Brown in particular, are always doing the lefthand meme when they finish from that side. He's got dribbling in traffic issues, but every player has strengths and weaknesses. Brown was 2nd team All-NBA, went 26.6/6.9/3.5 on a .550 eFG%, and he went 22.7/5.6/3.4 on a .551 eFG% in the playoffs. He had a clunker against the Heat, mostly from behind the arc, but he was playing with a right hand that was torn open. His playoff resume (.548 eFG%) looks pretty good next to guys like Chris Paul, James Harden and Steve Nash - all of whom won MVPs in their careers and had a habit of crashing out in the playoffs.

So what's the complaint exactly? He's a top player on a top team who's been to the conference finals in 5 of the 6 seasons he's participated in the playoffs (and the team's only first round exit was the one year he wasn't healthy for the playoffs), but he hasn't had a signature game in an NBA title clinching game? How is that the standard? If you're making a list of the 20 best players in the NBA right now, Brown's on it. I don't know that he will get over that last hump, but for damn sure he's made it to the last hump and he's probably going to have multiple chances to get over it. I assume you'd be over the moon if Paolo and/or Franz can have Brown-level problems in the future. In fact, they'll probably get max deals before they get anywhere close to Brown's level of achievement.

My complaint is these teams keep handing out Super Max deals to these star/but not superstar players and then you have this vast space between those guys and a lot of mid-level players who deserve decent money but end up on smaller or vet minimum deals in order to accommodate the clubs cap. Not that any of those guys deserve huge deals but they deserve an extra 3-5 million per year a lot more than a player of Browns caliber deserves every bit of 60 million per year.

Then you end up with situations like Portland and Lillard. Now im not knocking Dame, I would have him over Brown on a list of who deserve/deserved a SM deal, but these guys end up taking these gargantuan deals and then 3 years later the team hasnt accomplished anything, they're hands are tied financially, and the player is unhappy and wants to be moved.

Teams are getting worse and worse at this stuff. My favorite deal of the summer is Orlando trading away 3 future 2nd round picks to Phoenix in exchange for the right to swap their 2026 1st for the less favorable of Phoenix and Washingtons picks (since Phoenix has already given Washington the right to swap 2026 1sts in the Beal deal). For Orlando this was a throw a handful of loose change on the table deal in a bet that the Suns experiment (Beal/Book/KD) is going to fall apart by the '25/'26 season (and hope that Washington continues to be a lottery team, which is very possible). It's a bet against a team with 3 max deals, because more often than not those things don't work out. Boston may be safe from that since the Porzingis deal ends 1 year after Tatums last obligated contract year (as he will sign a SM deal and not pick up his PO for '25/'26).

I guess my problem is deals don't seem to ever work in terms of team success, though I realize the value of a player to a team goes beyond the court, into marketing and so on, yet these teams keep falling over themselves to throw SM deals at any player who even comes close to resembling a superstar at any point.

07-26-2023, 10:39 AM

My complaint is these teams keep handing out Super Max deals to these star/but not superstar players and then you have this vast space between those guys and a lot of mid-level players who deserve decent money but end up on smaller or vet minimum deals in order to accommodate the clubs cap. Not that any of those guys deserve huge deals but they deserve an extra 3-5 million per year a lot more than a player of Browns caliber deserves every bit of 60 million per year.

If you're a top 20 player, and Brown definitely is, you're going to get paid. I agree the NBA's current salary structure diverts money away from those crucial middle guys. That's why I'm sympathetic to the idea of a cap rebate for when teams keep their long-term guys. There should be some kind of allowance so they can fill in around those players. Also, the first apron, which is the true cap, probably will be up above $200M by the end of his deal.

Then you end up with situations like Portland and Lillard. Now im not knocking Dame, I would have him over Brown on a list of who deserve/deserved a SM deal, but these guys end up taking these gargantuan deals and then 3 years later the team hasnt accomplished anything, they're hands are tied financially, and the player is unhappy and wants to be moved.

IMO, there's a few key differences. First, Brown is 26. This contract will take him through age 32, which was Dame's age last season. So Boston's paying for prime seasons rather than staring at a back end of the deal where he's super expensive and in his late 30s. Second, Portland was a terribly run team that never put a full supporting cast behind Dame. Boston's regularly in the conference finals and is loading up to make a title run this season (no guarantee, but they're a leading contender). Boston has accomplished everything other than a title win in its current run. Like, Boston fans get to feel frustrated, but they don't get to feel unhappy.

Teams are getting worse and worse at this stuff. My favorite deal of the summer is Orlando trading away 3 future 2nd round picks to Phoenix in exchange for the right to swap their 2026 1st for the less favorable of Phoenix and Washingtons picks (since Phoenix has already given Washington the right to swap 2026 1sts in the Beal deal). For Orlando this was a throw a handful of loose change on the table deal in a bet that the Suns experiment (Beal/Book/KD) is going to fall apart by the '25/'26 season (and hope that Washington continues to be a lottery team, which is very possible). It's a bet against a team with 3 max deals, because more often than not those things don't work out. Boston may be safe from that since the Porzingis deal ends 1 year after Tatums last obligated contract year (as he will sign a SM deal and not pick up his PO for '25/'26).

I like that Orlando move. Again, I think there's some key differences between Phoenix and Boston. KD is old, Beal is declining and Ayton is the poster child for who shouldn't be on a max contract. Boston's paying in-their-prime guys. Their biggest risk is probably Porzingis' health. Yes, it costs some money to keep a regular conference finalist together, but the upside is you've kept a regular conference finalist together. I find it pretty impossible to argue that Boston shouldn't be investing in that team.

I guess my problem is deals don't seem to ever work in terms of team success, though I realize the value of a player to a team goes beyond the court, into marketing and so on, yet these teams keep falling over themselves to throw SM deals at any player who even comes close to resembling a superstar at any point.

I don't think your framing works. First off, only one team per year wins the title. If that's your only metric for success, then pro sports largely are an exercise in futility. By every other measure, Boston's been on a wildly successful run and Brown has been a key part of it. Second, if you subscribe to the notion that there's only ever 5-8 "superstars" in the NBA at any given point, that's fine, but it's not a rubric for running a franchise. Those aren't the only guys who are going to win the lottery in a 30-team league. And even those guys have blemishes. Until this year, Jokic was dealing with "but has he done it in the playoffs" doubters. Giannis was until the Bucks won it all in 2021. Embiid's never been past the second round. Doncic is facing all sorts of questions about his playing shape and commitment. James Harden and Chris Paul's playoff collapses are legendary. Like, it's easy to talk yourself out of paying for anybody, but eventually you've got to figure out where to spend that money. And Brown is unquestionably a guy who's getting paid with a Brinks truck.

texasdave

07-27-2023, 10:21 PM

Rockets may have gotten very lucky:
Cam Whitmore was named the Las Vegas Summer League MVP and the Rockets’ summer coach, Ben Sullivan, said the raw talent of the No. 20 pick in the draft “jumps off the page.” Sullivan spoke to The Athletic’s Kelly Iko about the Rockets’ Summer League experience. “He’s finishing around the rim, able to cut and score, shooting 3s and pull-ups and getting to the basket,” Sullivan said. “He displayed a lot of different stuff. And I really, I really like it, and he’s just so young, like he’s 19 years old. He’s going to have to grow in all areas of his game — his defense, his offense, understanding of concepts, what we’re trying to execute as a team, spacin

President of basketball operations Daryl Morey hinted on a radio appearance that he tried to swing a trade on draft night for Cam Whitmore, Sean Barnard of Philly Sports Network relays (Twitter link). “There was another prominent player who fell in this year’s draft that we were trying to move up for,” Morey said in a wide-ranging interview on The Anthony Gargano Show. “I couldn’t understand why they were falling because I’ve seen him play live multiple times here in town.” Whitmore, a Villanova product who was selected by the Rockets at No. 20, was named MVP of the Las Vegas Summer League.

07-27-2023, 10:57 PM

Whitmore dropping that far was baffling. He's got a grown-ass man's body, fast-twitch explosiveness and three-level scoring skills.

Kingspoint

07-31-2023, 10:43 PM

Rockets may have gotten very lucky:

They targeted him. When they saw him dropping, they started salivating at the prospect of getting him.

Also...

July 31st, 2023 at 11:59am CST by Arthur Hill

Rockets‘ free agent addition Dillon Brooks recently said he’s looking forward to teaming up with Tari Eason, and Eason tells Kelly Iko of The Athletic that the feeling is mutual. Eason gained a reputation as a tough, aggressive defender during his rookie season, and he wants to build on that with help from Brooks. “He’s one of the best defenders around and I can learn so many things from him,” Eason said. “There are so many other things to defense besides just guarding your man. There are so many things I can get better at in defense. Just being able to be paired with him and his skill, his approach and how he sees things from a defensive standpoint. I’ll be able to pick his brain, learn and become a better defender.”

Eason quickly earned a rotation spot last season as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the league. Houston is expecting to be much better after signing Brooks and three other veteran free agents, and new coach Ime Udoka has emphasized to Eason that defense will be important for him to keep getting regular minutes. “Just be vocal. Be in the right spots, things like that,” Eason said of Udoka’s message. “As far as my defensive approach, they want me to be locked in. We have an older team now so for me to be on the floor, I have to be one of the best defenders on the floor at all times. So just really being homed in on defense, that’s the biggest thing. Being able to knock down a consistent shot and play defense.”

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/southwest-notes-eason-doncic-hardaway-k-johnson.html

texasdave

08-01-2023, 09:27 PM

OKC has 15 first-round picks and 20 second-round picks over the next 7 years. :eek:

Rojo Rijo

08-14-2023, 08:55 AM

So umm yeah James Harden is done in Philly.

08-14-2023, 09:09 AM

So umm yeah James Harden is done in Philly.

That doesn't mean Daryl Morey will move him quickly. Morey will let him waste away in self-exile and wait for a deal he likes. Harden's agent should review how he got to Philly in the first place.

SteelSD

08-14-2023, 01:20 PM

Mutaman

08-14-2023, 06:35 PM

Congratulations to D. Wade on his HOF induction. Just a terrific speech.

Ring out Ahoya!

KoryMac5

08-15-2023, 10:01 AM

I thought both speeches were really good from Wade and Dirk.

Pop was on point as always really emphasizing relationships with players as to why he has been successful.

Dirk is probably going to be one of the last to do this 21 seasons with one team.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 10:36 AM

Harden's mad that he didn't get a max contract. Yet, Harden knew he wasn't about to get a max contract anywhere or he wouldn't have exercised his player option two seconds after he had a chance to. Had he not opted in, he could have already been looking elsewhere for another team to give him the kind of money no one is willing to give him.

I also saw that Joel removed all Philly stuff from his accounts. Seems like trouble is brewing. Maybe if he leaves they can make it to the eastern conference finals.

RiverfrontRed

08-16-2023, 10:52 AM

Harden is not a max player anymore. 2-3 years past that. That dude has been nothing but drama lately. I like him in his heyday with the Rockets. But he's toxic now. He's like turning into Antonio Brown.

08-16-2023, 03:12 PM

I also saw that Joel removed all Philly stuff from his accounts. Seems like trouble is brewing. Maybe if he leaves they can make it to the eastern conference finals.

And what exact deal do you think they can make involving Embiid that would make them better?

KoryMac5

08-16-2023, 03:37 PM

KP is out 4-6 weeks with a foot injury (plantar fasciitis) that is one dude who can't stay healthy.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 03:47 PM

And what exact deal do you think they can make involving Embiid that would make them better?

Sounds like he wants out to me. If that’s the case they probably won’t find one. He just isn’t the guy you win with. This isn’t a center league anymore and him being your number one option is not a recipe for winning in the playoffs. It has been multiple seasons with multiple different superstars and he never gets the job done. I am not a huge NBA guy so me offering up any trade scenarios would most likely be a waste. I am casual who watched more this year do to betting. When is the last time anyone won a title with a center as their main option? It just doesn’t happen anymore so I would bake the best deal I could for him and Harden and start over with Maxey.

Mitri

08-16-2023, 04:16 PM

KP is out 4-6 weeks with a foot injury (plantar fasciitis) that is one dude who can't stay healthy.

Oh shucks, that’s too bad. As a Knicks fan I didn’t see that one coming.

- - - Updated - - -

And what exact deal do you think they can make involving Embiid that would make them better?

I would love to see what RJ Barrett and Tyrese Maxey could do together.

08-16-2023, 04:45 PM

I would love to see what RJ Barrett and Tyrese Maxey could do together.

I feel like you'd be even more interested to see what Embiid and Brunson could do together.

08-16-2023, 05:05 PM

Sounds like he wants out to me. If that’s the case they probably won’t find one. He just isn’t the guy you win with. This isn’t a center league anymore and him being your number one option is not a recipe for winning in the playoffs. It has been multiple seasons with multiple different superstars and he never gets the job done. I am not a huge NBA guy so me offering up any trade scenarios would most likely be a waste. I am casual who watched more this year do to betting. When is the last time anyone won a title with a center as their main option? It just doesn’t happen anymore so I would bake the best deal I could for him and Harden and start over with Maxey.

So the last time somebody won with a center as their main option was this year.

As we've discussed before, I don't think Embiid's ever been on a team that was going anywhere without him with perhaps the exception of 2019 when they lost to Toronto on a miracle bounce. One of these days somebody should put some serious shooting around him.

And, yes, it would be rebuild mode without him. That was my point. Even a haul like Giddey, Jalen Williams and draft picks from OKC would leave them in the play-in zone.

SteelSD

08-16-2023, 05:19 PM

So the last time somebody won with a center as their main option was this year.

As we've discussed before, I don't think Embiid's ever been on a team that was going anywhere without him with perhaps the exception of 2019 when they lost to Toronto on a miracle bounce. One of these days somebody should put some serious shooting around him.

And, yes, it would be rebuild mode without him. That was my point. Even a haul like Giddey, Jalen Williams and draft picks from OKC would leave them in the play-in zone.

He doesn't know anything about the NBA, which is one of many reasons he's so incredibly confused. He's just trying to troll.

I know you know that and are just clubbing softballs out of park for funzies. I'm just pointing it out so others don't have to waste their time thinking they're going to get anything resembling a real basketball debate out of the kid. He just doesn't know anything.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 05:25 PM

So the last time somebody won with a center as their main option was this year.

As we've discussed before, I don't think Embiid's ever been on a team that was going anywhere without him with perhaps the exception of 2019 when they lost to Toronto on a miracle bounce. One of these days somebody should put some serious shooting around him.

And, yes, it would be rebuild mode without him. That was my point. Even a haul like Giddey, Jalen Williams and draft picks from OKC would leave them in the play-in zone.

Ok before Jokic and I don’t really consider him a traditional center like Embiid. You know it is not a centers league anymore. If he doesn’t want to play there he will force a trade like every other star does of course they would have to rebuild.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 05:32 PM

He doesn't know anything about the NBA, which is one of many reasons he's so incredibly confused. He's just trying to troll.

I know you know that and are just clubbing softballs out of park for funzies. I'm just pointing it out so others don't have to waste their time thinking they're going to get anything resembling a real basketball debate out of the kid. He just doesn't know anything.
Are you slow? I clearly stated I was a casual fan. You have trolled me all day and I haven’t gave you a response. You are ahh you know what you are. Take care old friend, I am sorry you have to live through being a sixers fan. Life must be tough.

SteelSD

08-16-2023, 08:21 PM

Are you slow? I clearly stated I was a casual fan.

No. While your baseball knowledge might qualify as being very light, even a "casual" NBA fan would know that Nikola Jokic is a center. You're like a millimeter away from, "Oh yeah? Well, when is the last time a CAR won the Indianapolis 500???"

And if you're going to attempt to dish it out, no matter how bad you are at it, you'd better be able to take it.

08-16-2023, 08:49 PM

Ok before Jokic and I don’t really consider him a traditional center like Embiid. You know it is not a centers league anymore. If he doesn’t want to play there he will force a trade like every other star does of course they would have to rebuild.

It's not a centers league, though there's a bumper crop of pure and over-sized power forwards who are pretty great. Bigs are more mobile and skilled than ever.

KoryMac5

08-16-2023, 09:14 PM

Sounds like he wants out to me. If that’s the case they probably won’t find one. He just isn’t the guy you win with. This isn’t a center league anymore and him being your number one option is not a recipe for winning in the playoffs. It has been multiple seasons with multiple different superstars and he never gets the job done. I am not a huge NBA guy so me offering up any trade scenarios would most likely be a waste. I am casual who watched more this year do to betting. When is the last time anyone won a title with a center as their main option? It just doesn’t happen anymore so I would bake the best deal I could for him and Harden and start over with Maxey.

After reading this I would agree with your statement of not being a huge NBA guy…

Embiid scores at will, rebounds well, plays D, and can hit from 3 he epitomizes how NBA centers have evolved.

He’s a guy to build around not trade away. You would never get value for him.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 09:28 PM

No. While your baseball knowledge might qualify as being very light, even a "casual" NBA fan would know that Nikola Jokic is a center. You're like a millimeter away from, "Oh yeah? Well, when is the last time a CAR won the Indianapolis 500???"

And if you're going to attempt to dish it out, no matter how bad you are at it, you'd better be able to take it.

Listen, I have no clue what your deal is. I have had you on ignore for months until today. Your posts are worthless. They are just insults. For some idiotic reason I unblocked you and you are oddly talking about me. I haven’t communicated with you for months because I think you are truly a horrible person not Jeffrey dahmer level m, but you know going and yelling at teenage workers kinda terrible. I don’t get on this site for some imaginary feud you have created in your head. I could care less about anything you have to say. Your superiority is laughable when your takes are mainly a joke. You are going back on ignore. Do your imaginary winning on the internet because that’s all you have. Take care old friend.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 09:32 PM

After reading this I would agree with your statement of not being a huge NBA guy…

Embiid scores at will, rebounds well, plays D, and can hit from 3 he epitomizes how NBA centers have evolved.

He’s a guy to build around not trade away. You would never get value for him.

Yet, he never wins in the playoffs with multiple superstars. Not even made an eastern conference finals. I made the statement of him wanting to be traded, I didn’t suggest it.In the post you quoted I said you wouldn’t get value; so, what are you even talking about and please explain why you would build around someone who can’t win in the playoffs.

08-16-2023, 09:59 PM

Yet, he never wins in the playoffs with multiple superstars. Not even made an eastern conference finals. I made the statement of him wanting to be traded, I didn’t suggest it.In the post you quoted I said you wouldn’t get value; so, what are you even talking about and please explain why you would build around someone who can’t win in the playoffs.

Who are these multiple superstars? James Harden in decline? Ben Simmons with zero shooting range? Embiid got one playoffs with Jimmy Butler and it took the most insane shot physics in history to knock them out of the playoffs. You're just making stuff up.

Kingspoint

08-16-2023, 10:05 PM

KP is out 4-6 weeks with a foot injury (plantar fasciitis) that is one dude who can't stay healthy.

My plantar fasciitis hasn't been bothering me for about 8 years now. I have a whole lot of other medical issues that took it's place, though.

It sucks getting old.

- - - Updated - - -

Embiid won the MVP, did he not?

SteelSD

08-16-2023, 10:13 PM

Listen, I have no clue what your deal is. I have had you on ignore for months until today. Your posts are worthless. They are just insults. For some idiotic reason I unblocked you and you are oddly talking about me. I haven’t communicated with you for months because I think you are truly a horrible person not Jeffrey dahmer level m, but you know going and yelling at teenage workers kinda terrible. I don’t get on this site for some imaginary feud you have created in your head. I could care less about anything you have to say. Your superiority is laughable when your takes are mainly a joke. You are going back on ignore. Do your imaginary winning on the internet because that’s all you have. Take care old friend.

I dunno' about any of that. I mean, there are some people who might be tasty if properly seasoned.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 10:15 PM

Who are these multiple superstars? James Harden in decline? Ben Simmons with zero shooting range? Embiid got one playoffs with Jimmy Butler and it took the most insane shot physics in history to knock them out of the playoffs. You're just making stuff up.

No, I am not making stuff up a declining James Harden carried them when Embiid was hurt. Ben Simmons was suppose to be y to be next big thing until Embiid ruined his confidence and blamed him for missing a dunk. This is just excuse after excuse they lost because a lucky shot. The case is he loses every year and every year there is an excuse. I mean how many superstars do you want to put around him. Anyways I am done with this conversation. I don’t see how a guy who can’t win is defended by so many. Also, you keep talking about lacking shooting. I believe he played with Reddick. He just can’t win, he will never win a championship 100% unless he is the second guy. As a guck would say he ain’t the bus driver.

08-16-2023, 10:41 PM

No, I am not making stuff up a declining James Harden carried them when Embiid was hurt. Ben Simmons was suppose to be y to be next big thing until Embiid ruined his confidence and blamed him for missing a dunk. This is just excuse after excuse they lost because a lucky shot. The case is he loses every year and every year there is an excuse. I mean how many superstars do you want to put around him. Anyways I am done with this conversation. I don’t see how a guy who can’t win is defended by so many.

Are you talking about the two games in the playoffs where Harden only carried them for one of those games? Just no. And Ben Simmons can't shoot. Never could. Embiid ruined his confidence? Get outta here with that.

The "excuse" every year except for the one where the crazy shot took them out is the team around Embiid wasn't good enough. They haven't put superstars around him. That you keep using that word makes me think you don't know what it means. Harden (21.0 ppg) and Maxey (20.3 ppg) are the only two guys who've topped 20 ppg playing with Embiid, and those are not superstar numbers. Maxey may get there. Honestly, blaming the best guy on a good, but not championship team is the lamest, laziest sports hot take in the book.

Rdirtypirates

08-16-2023, 11:19 PM

Are you talking about the two games in the playoffs where Harden only carried them for one of those games? Just no. And Ben Simmons can't shoot. Never could. Embiid ruined his confidence? Get outta here with that.

The "excuse" every year except for the one where the crazy shot took them out is the team around Embiid wasn't good enough. They haven't put superstars around him. That you keep using that word makes me think you don't know what it means. Harden (21.0 ppg) and Maxey (20.3 ppg) are the only two guys who've topped 20 ppg playing with Embiid, and those are not superstar numbers. Maxey may get there. Honestly, blaming the best guy on a good, but not championship team is the lamest, laziest sports hot take in the book.

No blaming role players and not the superstar is the weak hot take. So what exactly gets them over the top? You said shooting I guess you don’t consider Reddick a shooter. You are just as bad as Embiid passing the blame. I sure ad hell knows he takes the credit but can’t accept Blane. It seems you don’t know what a superstar is, it isn’t a loser. Jimmy Butler drug 4 corpses to the finals, but Embiid don’t have enough. Yes, Embiid passed the blame to Simmons. I just want to make sure I got this your idea of a superstar who avoids accountability, loses, and cares more about personal accolades. Great thanks for the education on how basketball works.

08-17-2023, 12:24 AM

No blaming role players and not the superstar is the weak hot take. So what exactly gets them over the top? You said shooting I guess you don’t consider Reddick a shooter. You are just as bad as Embiid passing the blame. I sure ad hell knows he takes the credit but can’t accept Blane. It seems you don’t know what a superstar is, it isn’t a loser. Jimmy Butler drug 4 corpses to the finals, but Embiid don’t have enough. Yes, Embiid passed the blame to Simmons. I just want to make sure I got this your idea of a superstar who avoids accountability, loses, and cares more about personal accolades. Great thanks for the education on how basketball works.

OMG, no. I promise you the problem with any good but not championship team is not their MVP player. It's so petty and so lazy. Sports radio hacks and most-boring-guy-at-the-bar types spit the same lines about Jokic until this year and Giannis until 2021. They said it about LeBron and Jordan too. It's the most unoriginal hot take in the book. The biggest problem with the Sixers has been they didn't draft Jayson Tatum and they traded Mikal Bridges.

Blame passes to Simmons because he's become an unplayable mess. Embiid milking four seasons out of him when he couldn't sink a shot beyond five feet from the rim now looks like a bit of a miracle.

And Redick had his two best scoring seasons playing with Embiid, but he was just one guy. They've never had enough of guys like him, which you'd know if you'd been paying attention before yesterday. It is not easy to build a championship team and it takes more than just one transcendent talent. I suggest you watch this clip and take it to heart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mXGSjnUvSM

Rdirtypirates

08-17-2023, 04:31 AM

OMG, no. I promise you the problem with any good but not championship team is not their MVP player. It's so petty and so lazy. Sports radio hacks and most-boring-guy-at-the-bar types spit the same lines about Jokic until this year and Giannis until 2021. They said it about LeBron and Jordan too. It's the most unoriginal hot take in the book. The biggest problem with the Sixers has been they didn't draft Jayson Tatum and they traded Mikal Bridges.

Blame passes to Simmons because he's become an unplayable mess. Embiid milking four seasons out of him when he couldn't sink a shot beyond five feet from the rim now looks like a bit of a miracle.

And Redick had his two best scoring seasons playing with Embiid, but he was just one guy. They've never had enough of guys like him, which you'd know if you'd been paying attention before yesterday. It is not easy to build a championship team and it takes more than just one transcendent talent. I suggest you watch this clip and take it to heart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mXGSjnUvSM

Dude, I have saw this clip. I also saw Embiid mock it. I am sorry I believe a superstar is responsible for winning. Stop being idiotic and listening to that dill weed. I told you I was a casual, but not paying attention until yesterday, come on. Because I don’t participate in a thread constantly or agree with you and your philosophy. You said he had no shooting now Reddick isn’t enough. Again, I ask how much does he need that’s even if he stays there. Stop lecturing me you don’t even watch baseball games and take part in conversations you have no clue about. People on this site like to group think, sorry the superstar takes the glory and the blame or did you recently start watching sports. My original comment was Embiid took his stuff off social media. Then the guy who yells at teenage workers jumped in. If you want to listen to that pathetic excuse for a man go ahead put me on ignore and stop saying stupid stuff to me. I love people that can’t think for their self especially listening to that guy when he is nothing but a troll. They were up 3-1 on Boston, but yet they didn’t have the talent. Ok. Like I said excuse after excuse. I done let my opinion on Embiid known from apparently never watching him. Simmons played on the 76ers, interesting I only started paying attention yesterday. Embiid ruined that kid by throwing him under the bus. Dude isn’t a winner and passes the buck, plain and simple. I will make sure I post in here sense that seems to be an issue with you guys. As for you take care because I got zero left to say to you.

RedTeamGo!

08-17-2023, 09:07 AM

Jimmy Butler drug 4 corpses to the finals

Jimmy is great, but I give more credit to Spo for that postseason run than anyone. And those guys weren't corpses, they were young players that Spo developed

08-17-2023, 09:07 AM

"Dude, I saw that clip, but I am determined to learn nothing from it."

And is this you?

I am not a huge NBA guy so me offering up any trade scenarios would most likely be a waste. I am casual who watched more this year do to betting.

Side note: I watch plenty of baseball games, just don't spend a lot of time on the Reds these days.

Rdirtypirates

08-17-2023, 09:17 AM

Dude, I saw that clip, but I am determined to learn nothing from it.

And is this you?

Is this some sort of got you. I have said this numerous times. I said before and during the discussion. That doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion I do still watch. I responded this to you to let you know before you entered the discussion and you still did. I didn’t say I was some expert. Imo superstars get the credit and the blame. That is why they make the big money. I don’t have to watch religiously to have that opinion. The clip is great and classy but not logical. There are winners and losers in sports plain and simple.

Rdirtypirates

08-17-2023, 09:35 AM

Jimmy is great, but I give more credit to Spo for that postseason run than anyone. And those guys weren't corpses, they were young players that Spo developed

Spo imo if I can still give it is the best coach in the league. I just love the tale of Jimmy Butler. Bam is pretty decent as well but I agree Spo had a lot to do with it as did Riley the best executive in basketball.

08-17-2023, 10:11 AM

Is this some sort of got you. I have said this numerous times. I said before and during the discussion. That doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion I do still watch. I responded this to you to let you know before you entered the discussion and you still did. I didn’t say I was some expert. Imo superstars get the credit and the blame. That is why they make the big money. I don’t have to watch religiously to have that opinion. The clip is great and classy but not logical. There are winners and losers plain and simple.

Did it ever occur to you that you might want to base your opinion on something other than a lazy hot take? Jimmy Butler very well might finish his career without a ring. Would that make him a loser? Chris Paul has never won an NBA title and he's had some notable bonks in the playoffs. Does that make him a loser? 29 teams didn't win an NBA title this year. It will happen again next year. It's exceptionally reductive boil that down to character flaws. You're free to dislike Joel Embiid if you want, but he's a pretty great basketball player who busts his tail on defense.

It took Denver six years for this team to come together around Jokic and Murray. It took Milwaukee seven years to build a champion around Giannis and Middleton. Philly tried to build around Embiid and Simmons, but Simmons' game never progressed (and ultimately regressed). They plugged in Harden, but he's post-prime. Now it's probably Embiid and Maxey, but Maxey is just 22. You've got to build a team, and Philly hasn't gotten it right yet (most specifically a team that can beat Boston, which has knocked them out three times in six years). This is really hard to do.

Rdirtypirates

08-17-2023, 10:33 AM

Did it ever occur to you that you might want to base your opinion on something other than a lazy hot take? Jimmy Butler very well might finish his career without a ring. Would that make him a loser? Chris Paul has never won an NBA title and he's had some notable bonks in the playoffs. Does that make him a loser? 29 teams didn't win an NBA title this year. It will happen again next year. It's exceptionally reductive boil that down to character flaws. You're free to dislike Joel Embiid if you want, but he's a pretty great basketball player who busts his tail on defense.

It took Denver six years for this team to come together around Jokic and Murray. It took Milwaukee seven years to build a champion around Giannis and Middleton. Philly tried to build around Embiid and Simmons, but Simmons' game never progressed (and ultimately regressed). They plugged in Harden, but he's post-prime. Now it's probably Embiid and Maxey, but Maxey is just 22. You've got to build a team, and Philly hasn't gotten it right yet (most specifically a team that can beat Boston, which has knocked them out three times in six years). This is really hard to do.

You consider it lazy because it is the majorities opinion. I mean theoretically you could put it on their front office. There first round picks the last five to ten years they have hit on one or two. Fultz, Simmons, Okafor is a collection of garbage. You keep saying you don’t blame the superstar. You absolutely do if they don’t perform in the playoffs. They were up 3-1 and he played like garbage the rest of the series. My whole point is if Joel Embiid is your first option you won’t win a championship. I overstated that of course there are certain levels of achievements. There are a handful of players in the NBA I can say zi dislike and Joel isn’t one of them.I mean he can be happy with where he is at but in making fun of Giannis, it doesn’t seem like he thinks this way. The facts are he was up 3-1 and was the MVP and stunk it up.

08-17-2023, 11:07 AM

You consider it lazy because it is the majorities opinion. I mean theoretically you could put it on their front office. There first round picks the last five to ten years they have hit on one or two. Fultz, Simmons, Okafor is a collection of garbage. You keep saying you don’t blame the superstar. You absolutely do if they don’t perform in the playoffs. They were up 3-1 and he played like garbage the rest of the series. My whole point is if Joel Embiid is your first option you won’t win a championship. I overstated that of course there are certain levels of achievements. There are a handful of players in the NBA I can say zi dislike and Joel isn’t one of them.I mean he can be happy with where he is at but in making fun of Giannis, it doesn’t seem like he thinks this way. The facts are he was up 3-1 and was the MVP and stunk it up.

The majority of who? Sports radio knuckle-draggers? You spouting some warmed over Skip Bayless take doesn't make it a majority opinion. I suspect most Sixers fans recognize Embiid led the team in scoring in the Boston series despite being hobbled and that he's played consistently well in the playoffs throughout his career.

Rdirtypirates

08-17-2023, 11:29 AM

The majority of who? Sports radio knuckle-draggers? You spouting some warmed over Skip Bayless take doesn't make it a majority opinion. I suspect most Sixers fans recognize Embiid led the team in scoring in the Boston series despite being hobbled and that he's played consistently well in the playoffs throughout his career.

His scoring production drops ten points in The playoffs so about 33%. Due with that what you will. I was wondering how long it would take for t to be injury excuse.
Joel Embiid was historically bad during 2022-23 NBA Playoffs
2023 May 15 01:26
Embiid's point average dropped from 33.1 in the regular season to 23.7 in the playoffs, which is the biggest dropoff (-9.4) by an MVP in the league's history.
https://m.basketnews.com/news-189504-joel-embiid-was-historically-bad-during-2022-23-nba-playoffs.html
Game 6 the 76ers were -9 with him on the floor and game 7 - 24. Game 7 he shot 27%. For his whole career he is barely in The positive snd that is because of his first year I. The playoffs. Take that out and he is negative. Shot over 50% once this whole playoffs. He got torched in game 7 and gave up. You consider this playing great. Ok then.
Anyways we aren’t going to agree and you are starting to be your old lovely self so this conversation is over . Take care.

08-17-2023, 11:57 AM

His scoring production drops ten points in The playoffs so about 33%. Due with that what you will. I was wondering how long it would take for t to be injury excuse.
Joel Embiid was historically bad during 2022-23 NBA Playoffs
2023 May 15 01:26
Embiid's point average dropped from 33.1 in the regular season to 23.7 in the playoffs, which is the biggest dropoff (-9.4) by an MVP in the league's history.
https://m.basketnews.com/news-189504-joel-embiid-was-historically-bad-during-2022-23-nba-playoffs.html
Game 6 the 76ers were -9 with him on the floor and game 7 - 24. Game 7 he shot 27%. For his whole career he is barely in The positive snd that is because of his first year I. The playoffs. Take that out and he is negative. Shot over 50% once this whole playoffs. He got torched in game 7 and gave up. You consider this playing great. Ok then.
Anyways we aren’t going to agree and you are starting to be your old lovely self so this conversation is over . Take care.

If you paid attention to the games, he was in cruise control against Brooklyn, letting his teammates hoist up more shots. He wasn't pushing it in that series because he didn't have to and they got a sweep. That's where he scored on 20 ppg and it dragged his average way down. Even injured he put up 25.5 ppg against the Celtics. He put up 33 and 34 in the two wins which got them to 3-2. I didn't bother to correct your 3-1 earlier, but that was not the case. Then Philly went 8-33 and 8-37 from 3 in the final two games. They were ice cold, Boston just collapsed on Embiid.

This is what I mean by lazy. If you were aware of what happened in those games as it was happening you'd know better than to call it historically bad.

Rdirtypirates

08-17-2023, 12:07 PM

BuckeyeRed27

08-17-2023, 04:00 PM

Full schedule for all the teams was just released

Rojo Rijo

08-17-2023, 06:48 PM

I like Orlando's draw for the in-season tournament - Boston, Brooklyn, Toronto, and Chicago.

We went 8-6 against those teams last season.

3-1 vs. Boston - Added Porzingis, lost Smart and Grant Williams.
1-2 vs. Brooklyn (1 loss vs. KD/Kyrie who scored 65 combined) - No significant changes
2-2 vs. Toronto - Lost VanVleet, added Dick and Schroeder
2-1 vs. Chicago - No significant changes

We get Toronto and Boston at home, Chicago and Brooklyn on the road.

Rdirtypirates

08-18-2023, 03:20 AM

If you paid attention to the games, he was in cruise control against Brooklyn, letting his teammates hoist up more shots. He wasn't pushing it in that series because he didn't have to and they got a sweep. That's where he scored on 20 ppg and it dragged his average way down. Even injured he put up 25.5 ppg against the Celtics. He put up 33 and 34 in the two wins which got them to 3-2. I didn't bother to correct your 3-1 earlier, but that was not the case. Then Philly went 8-33 and 8-37 from 3 in the final two games. They were ice cold, Boston just collapsed on Embiid.

This is what I mean by lazy. If you were aware of what happened in those games as it was happening you'd know better than to call it historically bad.

I watched the games and this is the second time we have had this conversation. Your assertion was he was finding the open man. I countered that his potential assists weren’t much different than his actual assists. Then you went on to claim well that guy passed it to someone more open. That is not finding the open man. Yes, I was incorrect on the 3-1. It doesn’t change the facts about game 6 and 7. Taking stats from wins of course they will be better than when he loses. You assert he didn’t play well because he was hurt, correct but yet he was injured those two games. You keep questioning me watching games is annoying. If I didn’t watch I would say. I think you are the one being lazy when you make every excuse in the book for the guy. What is your opinion of you saying how great he plays in the playoffs then his + - being barely positive? I guess it is because his teammates can’t shoot.

Here is one of Embiids quotes from that discussion.
You said it yourself he is their best player, it falls on him. This is a direct quote from him before he decided to throw the team under the bus. “ If you want to call me the best player on the team, every loss and failure falls on me. It’s all on me I will be better.”
I guess he was just being lazy and giving a hot take or maybe that is how sports work.
So, this is the second time we have had this same conversation in the last five months. I think it is enough we won’t agree. We can revisit in a year and see what the excuse is this time.

SteelSD

08-18-2023, 07:31 AM

08-18-2023, 08:59 AM

I watched the games and this is the second time we have had this conversation. Your assertion was he was finding the open man. I countered that his potential assists weren’t much different than his actual assists. Then you went on to claim well that guy passed it to someone more open. That is not finding the open man. Yes, I was incorrect on the 3-1. It doesn’t change the facts about game 6 and 7. Taking stats from wins of course they will be better than when he loses. You assert he didn’t play well because he was hurt, correct but yet he was injured those two games. You keep questioning me watching games is annoying. If I didn’t watch I would say. I think you are the one being lazy when you make every excuse in the book for the guy. What is your opinion of you saying how great he plays in the playoffs then his + - being barely positive? I guess it is because his teammates can’t shoot.

Here is one of Embiids quotes from that discussion.
You said it yourself he is their best player, it falls on him. This is a direct quote from him before he decided to throw the team under the bus. “ If you want to call me the best player on the team, every loss and failure falls on me. It’s all on me I will be better.”
I guess he was just being lazy and giving a hot take or maybe that is how sports work.
So, this is the second time we have had this same conversation in the last five months. I think it is enough we won’t agree. We can revisit in a year and see what the excuse is this time.

Now you're dancing off to old complaints. Steel's right. You're just putting this on a loop. You say you watched the games. Then you know he wasn't stat padding against the Nets because there was no need for it. And you also know the Celtics collapsed on him when the Sixers' shooting went ice cold. It's a team game and you can trot out the dopey line that the star gets the blame all you want, but anyone who knows the first thing about the game should recognize that facing constant double- and triple-team defenses is going to chop down a guy's numbers. Give Embiid a team that can space the court for him in critical games like that and then let me know how well he does the job. I can't tell you because he's never been on a team like that.

If you came in here to talk basketball instead of sports radio, you might make a point like Embiid is always going to face a throng of defenders in the playoffs, just like Shaq did and just like Wilt did, and it's invariably going to sap his efficiency. However, that would go back to the team construction point I've been making. You've got to play modern basketball. Philly hasn't really done that, though that might change under Nurse. I still think they need different personnel to execute on it. If there's a Harden trade, that could bring in the right role players to support Embiid and Maxey. I'm just not sure who's making a deal for Harden at this point. Atlanta remains my sleeper pick.

The other potential negative for Embiid is as he's getting older, it's going to be easier to drag him out to the perimeter defensively and put him on skates. We've seen teams do this to Gobert on a regular basis. Embiid's pretty good for a big man when he gets pulled out to the arc, though when his knee was shot against the Celtics they feasted on him. Anyway, they're probably going to need to play a modified zone as he gets older.

Rdirtypirates

08-18-2023, 10:01 AM

Now you're dancing off to old complaints. Steel's right. You're just putting this on a loop. You say you watched the games. Then you know he wasn't stat padding against the Nets because there was no need for it. And you also know the Celtics collapsed on him when the Sixers' shooting went ice cold. It's a team game and you can trot out the dopey line that the star gets the blame all you want, but anyone who knows the first thing about the game should recognize that facing constant double- and triple-team defenses is going to chop down a guy's numbers. Give Embiid a team that can space the court for him in critical games like that and then let me know how well he does the job. I can't tell you because he's never been on a team like that.

If you came in here to talk basketball instead of sports radio, you might make a point like Embiid is always going to face a throng of defenders in the playoffs, just like Shaq did and just like Wilt did, and it's invariably going to sap his efficiency. However, that would go back to the team construction point I've been making. You've got to play modern basketball. Philly hasn't really done that, though that might change under Nurse. I still think they need different personnel to execute on it. If there's a Harden trade, that could bring in the right role players to support Embiid and Maxey. I'm just not sure who's making a deal for Harden at this point. Atlanta remains my sleeper pick.

The other potential negative for Embiid is as he's getting older, it's going to be easier to drag him out to the perimeter defensively and put him on skates. We've seen teams do this to Gobert on a regular basis. Embiid's pretty good for a big man when he gets pulled out to the arc, though when his knee was shot against the Celtics they feasted on him. Anyway, they're probably going to need to play a modified zone as he gets older.

You lost me when you said steels right. I’m not reading the rest of it, if that’s how you start. That guy is never right. As for the rest of it I don’t know why you spent the time when I explicitly stated I was done with the conversations. Most of the time I appreciate your conversation, but this one not so much. I made it clear I am a casual and you want to talk like I explicitly watch every game and insult me. I watched the playoffs I know what happened in them. Is it a thing on redszone you got to belittle and berate someone if you believe you know more on a subject. I can do it better than anyone if people want to keep doing that. I have been extremely respectful to you pay me the same courtesy. WhenI said Iwas a casual you should have took that into account or not had the conversation. My original post was talking about Embiid removing his 76ers stuff off social media. That was my post and you are the one who engaged me. You got. The conversation you got, if you don’t appreciate my sports talk views on basketball let’s just not talk basketball because I truly learn a lot from some of your posts.

08-18-2023, 10:31 AM

As for the rest of it I don’t know why you spent the time when I explicitly stated I was done with the conversations.

Yet somehow you're still talking. You've said you're done like five times and it hasn't stuck once.

And cheeseball sports radio takes have never flown well anywhere on this board, which I submit is why it's been around for 23 years.

Rdirtypirates

08-18-2023, 10:42 AM

Yet somehow you're still talking. You've said you're done like five times and it hasn't stuck once.

And cheeseball sports radio takes have never flown well anywhere on this board, which I submit is why it's been around for 23 years.

I do say I am done a lot because I want the other person not to respond. I can just stop responding all together it makes no difference to me I just think it is rude when someone spends their time to communicate with me and I don’t respond. That is what that is. You call it a cheeseball radio take yet that’s just your opinion. As I said You can teach me a lot in the politics section, but your view on sports I can’t get on board with especially this take.

BuckeyeRed27

08-18-2023, 10:46 AM

We all good now?

08-18-2023, 11:05 AM

I do say I am done a lot because I want the other person not to respond.

If you say you're done, that means you are the one who needs to be done. You're not in control of what other people post. "I don't want you to respond to my post" is not a thing any of us get to do.

RichRed

08-18-2023, 11:07 AM

I look forward to the day when the Wizards are worth fighting about on a message board. Maybe by 2028.

Rdirtypirates

08-18-2023, 11:14 AM

If you say you're done, that means you are the one who needs to be done. You're not in control of what other people post. "I don't want you to respond to my post" is not a thing any of us get to do.

Then don’t complain when I say I am done and still post. Same logic.

08-18-2023, 11:36 AM

Then don’t complain when I say I am done and still post. Same logic.

Complain? I was mocking you for it.

08-18-2023, 11:40 AM

I look forward to the day when the Wizards are worth fighting about on a message board. Maybe by 2028.

Their ability to hover as the 22nd best team in the NBA is kind of amazing. They should be fun to watch this season because they have some scoring and they play no defense.

Rdirtypirates

08-18-2023, 11:45 AM

Complain? I was mocking you for it.

Mocking me because I have basic respect for people. I could see how you personally have a problem with that.

BuckeyeRed27

08-18-2023, 11:50 AM

08-18-2023, 11:52 AM

Mocking me because I have basic respect for people. I could see how you personally have a problem with that.

No, just for insisting you're done in multiple threads and never once actually being done. It's kind of amusing.

08-18-2023, 11:54 AM

I have a partial season ticket package for the Cavs and got my games today.

OKC, Miami, Portland, Houston, Washington, Spurs, Philly, Dallas, Phoenix, Indy

Pretty happy with that. I can switch games but outside of Houston and Indy will probably keep the rest.

I'd keep that Indy game. They might all right this season. The upside of Houston is you're going to get to see some scoring. Mitchell or Garland could go off for 60 against them.

BuckeyeRed27

08-18-2023, 11:57 AM

I'd keep that Indy game. They might all right this season. The upside of Houston is you're going to get to see some scoring. Mitchell or Garland could go off for 60 against them.

It’s the second to last game of the season, so it could be good or it could be completely useless.

I also try and go to the Jazz game and that’s a prime candidate.

KoryMac5

08-18-2023, 12:03 PM

Puffy

08-18-2023, 12:38 PM

Luka looks pretty serious about being in shape this season...looks the best I have seen him since his rookie year.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/the-league-better-scared-luka-doncic-s-recent-transformation-nba-fans-hyped

Now can he keep the lbs off during the season

That would be a great thing for the Mavs. An in-shape Luka jumps to top three in preseason MVP odds (with Embiid and Joker with Giannis in same tier)

Assembly Hall

08-18-2023, 12:52 PM

08-18-2023, 01:00 PM

It’s the second to last game of the season, so it could be good or it could be completely useless.

I also try and go to the Jazz game and that’s a prime candidate.

Second game of the season is generally pretty useless no matter who's playing. No one's in rhythm and they've got a hangover from opening night.

Rdirtypirates

08-18-2023, 01:05 PM

Second game of the season is generally pretty useless no matter who's playing. No one's in rhythm and they've got a hangover from opening night.

It says second to last game of the season not second game.

08-18-2023, 01:14 PM

It says second to last game of the season not second game.

My bad.

Assembly Hall

08-18-2023, 01:34 PM

Second game of the season is generally pretty useless no matter who's playing. No one's in rhythm and they've got a hangover from opening night.

The 2nd game of the season is usually a good drinkin' night.

Kingspoint

08-18-2023, 03:59 PM

Best case scenario for the Blazers.

Simons, Dame and Nurk get traded at the Feb 8th Deadline.

Chauncey develops as a Coach good enough to be compared to a High School Coach (or the equivalent of Terry Porter and Larry Steele during their tenures at the University of Portland, without the ability to develop quality young men as those two have done).

Blazers finish above .500 over the post-trade deadline 33 games with a 17-16 record (as Scoot/Shaedon/Thybulle/Murray/Walker and those obtained for Dame refuse to tank) finishing with a 35-47 record for 4th worst in the NBA.

Kingspoint

08-22-2023, 03:29 PM

After finishing with the West’s third seed while returning to the playoffs for the first time in 17 years, the revitalized Kings be featured prominently on national TV this season. According to James Ham of ESPN 1320, the club will play six regular season contests on TNT, five on ESPN and 11 on NBA TV. Ham adds that 16 of those 22 national bouts will be played in Sacramento.

Kings All-Star big man Domantas Sabonis is looking forward to the NBA’s inaugural in-season tournament, as he told Kyle Irving of The Sporting News. “It’s another chance to win something,” Sabonis said. “In international basketball, these cups in the middle of the season are big. They mean something. And then history happens and it’s important. “I feel like this year, if people aren’t on board at the moment, once that first champion wins, everyone is going to be like, ‘Oh, I want that next year.’ It’s only going to get better and better.”

texasdave

08-23-2023, 05:47 PM

I could not care less about some faux in-season tournament championship.

08-23-2023, 06:44 PM

I could not care less about some faux in-season tournament championship.

I'm interested in it. It's the first of the major U.S. sports that's put on an in-season tournament. They're common in the rest of the world. It will all come down to whether we get good games and they execute well, but these things are pretty fun in the soccer world. It could use a cool name/trophy and I wish they were using the ASG scoring rules. Also wish the winners and runners up of the EuroLeague were invited for the knockout rounds.

Kingspoint

08-24-2023, 05:14 PM

I could not care less about some faux in-season tournament championship.

The Pelicans (or is the Grizzlies) are offering their fans a chance to cash in on it. Should they win the tournament, they will split $1M with 100 fans who would each receive $10K. Fans must purchase a ticket to the tournament to become eligible.

Kingspoint

08-29-2023, 09:11 PM

August 29th, 2023 at 5:31pm CST by Dana Gauruder

The Kings are interested in signing veteran center JaVale McGee once he clears waived, Chris Haynes of Bleacher Report and NBA on TNT tweets. The Mavericks officially waived McGee on Monday and he’ll become an unrestricted free agent on Thursday.

Sacramento has 13 players on guaranteed contracts and two more frontcourt players — Neemias Queta and Nerlens Noel — on partially guaranteed deals. The Kings also have Alex Len behind Domantas Sabonis in the center spot with Trey Lyles another possibility in small ball lineups. McGee could join the battle for backup minutes behind Sabonis. He’d be on his ninth NBA team since entering the league in 2008. McGee signed a three-year, $17MM+ contract with Dallas last offseason, but only spent seven games in the starting lineup and subsequently fell out of the rotation altogether. The 35-year-old averaged 4.4 points and 2.5 rebounds in a career-low 8.5 minutes per game across 42 appearances during his second stint as a Maverick.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/

texasdave

09-13-2023, 09:09 AM

WNBA playoffs begin. Does anyone here follow the WNBA?

Assembly Hall

09-13-2023, 10:01 AM

WNBA playoffs begin. Does anyone here follow the WNBA?

What is this WNBA you speak of?

Kingspoint

09-13-2023, 04:12 PM

What is this WNBA you speak of?

Some game where they use a dwarf basketball to make it easier for the girls to dribble the ball and shoot it into the basket because they aren't capable of using a real basketball like a man uses. Kind of like how in tennis, the girls only play best of 3 in tournaments where the men play best of 5, or in "professional" women's golf where they only play three rounds instead of fours rounds because they believe that the girls don't have the physical stamina to play golf and tennis as well as men.

But, hey, they're equal, right?

texasdave

09-13-2023, 10:17 PM

SteelSD

09-13-2023, 11:36 PM

Rockets are dangling draft currency in return for someone taking Kevin Porter, Jr. off of their hands. Porter, Jr. has recently been arrested for domestic violence. https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/09/rockets-trying-to-trade-kevin-porter-jr.html

The money works on the following:

Sixers Get: Zach LaVine
Bulls Get: James Harden, Kevin Porter Jr., Houston's own 2025 1st round pick, GSW's 2024 2nd round pick (protected 56-59), Philly's 2024 2nd round pick
Rockets Get: Patrick Williams, Andre Drummond, Furkan Korkmaz

Harden and LaVine get moved as the Bulls embark on a rebuild- Harden's on an expiring and Porter Jr. will almost certainly be waived, which will still be a significant net cost savings over time for the Bulls. Patrick Williams is not a bad piece to take back for Houston, with Korkmaz and Drummond salary smoothies. The price from Houston is draft capital that can help Chicago rebuild. A second rounder might be light for Philly, but they're absorbing the vast majority lot of salary in that deal.

09-14-2023, 01:12 AM

The money works on the following:

Sixers Get: Zach LaVine
Bulls Get: James Harden, Kevin Porter Jr., Houston's own 2025 1st round pick, GSW's 2024 2nd round pick (protected 56-59), Philly's 2024 2nd round pick
Rockets Get: Patrick Williams, Andre Drummond, Furkan Korkmaz

Harden and LaVine get moved as the Bulls embark on a rebuild- Harden's on an expiring and Porter Jr. will almost certainly be waived, which will still be a significant net cost savings over time for the Bulls. Patrick Williams is not a bad piece to take back for Houston, with Korkmaz and Drummond salary smoothies. The price from Houston is draft capital that can help Chicago rebuild. A second rounder might be light for Philly, but they're absorbing the vast majority lot of salary in that deal.

Houston does have a little bit of a forward logjam, at least in terms of finding minutes for all the young guys they've draft. Can the Bulls stick Coby White in there instead? I'm not sure if they have to wait six months because he just extended with them.

SteelSD

09-14-2023, 06:36 AM

Houston does have a little bit of a forward logjam, at least in terms of finding minutes for all the young guys they've draft. Can the Bulls stick Coby White in there instead? I'm not sure if they have to wait six months because he just extended with them.

I thought that too, but the Trade Machine says no dice.

Rdirtypirates

09-14-2023, 08:25 AM

Didn’t know if I should start a new thread for this.
LeBron James, wife and 2 associates named in federal PED investigation
https://deadspin.com/lebron-jameds-wife-biogenesis-anthony-bosch-1850834572

Former MMA fighter claims LeBron James, Tiger Woods are on steroids: 'We have the same drug guy'
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-mma-fighter-claims-lebron-james-tiger-woods-are-steroids-we-have-the-same-drug-guy.amp

09-14-2023, 10:35 AM

Former MMA fighter claims LeBron James, Tiger Woods are on steroids: 'We have the same drug guy'
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-mma-fighter-claims-lebron-james-tiger-woods-are-steroids-we-have-the-same-drug-guy.amp

I believe this at face value for weird reasons. I 100% assume all MMA fighters have a PED guy and Tiger Woods has been caught with steroids in his system. If LeBron's in that nexus, I find it hard to figure "but he's clean though."

BuckeyeRed27

09-14-2023, 11:17 AM

SteelSD

09-15-2023, 07:21 AM

Kevin Porter might be in jail. No idea why anyone would trade for him.

To buy the draft picks Houston would have to pay to jettison Porter Jr., particularly if Houston wants anything coming back from the other team. His annual contract amount (15.8M/year) is actually an attractive mid-tier number that can slot into a ton of deals. The acquiring team would waive Porter Jr. prior to opening day, which would mean they'd have to pay out only @16.8M of his 63.4M 4-year contract, as only 1M is guaranteed for next season. It's one of those weird scenarios where no one actually wants the player, but where the contract and picks are the target.

BuckeyeRed27

09-15-2023, 08:59 AM

To buy the draft picks Houston would have to pay to jettison Porter Jr., particularly if Houston wants anything coming back from the other team. His annual contract amount (15.8M/year) is actually an attractive mid-tier number that can slot into a ton of deals. The acquiring team would waive Porter Jr. prior to opening day, which would mean they'd have to pay out only @16.8M of his 63.4M 4-year contract, as only 1M is guaranteed for next season. It's one of those weird scenarios where no one actually wants the player, but where the contract and picks are the target.

Ok…so why would Houston want to give draft picks away if he doesn’t have a guaranteed contract?

SteelSD

09-15-2023, 04:29 PM

Ok…so why would Houston want to give draft picks away if he doesn’t have a guaranteed contract?

To either dump his salary for this year and/or get a player back who can help them (the latter is what they've stated they want). Sure, they could just cut the guy right now if they want to eat1 16.8M.

BuckeyeRed27

09-15-2023, 04:51 PM

To either dump his salary for this year and/or get a player back who can help them (the latter is what they've stated they want). Sure, they could just cut the guy right now if they want to eat1 16.8M.

I guess I’d have to see it. Houston is still going to stink and trading what will likely be tied draft picks for someone that would maybe help them get the 10 seed is crazy.

Kingspoint

09-24-2023, 02:33 AM

Btw, Houston will not only make the playoffs, but may even make it to the 2nd Round.

Here are my locks to make the playoffs in the West.

Houston
Sacramento
Phoenix
Oklahoma City
Denver

The rest of the playoff contenders are fighting for 3 spots. I'd lean Golden State and the Lakers for taking two of them. That last one is up for grabs and could be anybody but Portland.

Chip R

09-27-2023, 02:24 PM

Incoming Woj bomb: Lillard to MIL.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1707096933708509295

KoryMac5

09-27-2023, 02:50 PM

BuckeyeRed27

09-27-2023, 02:58 PM

Milwaukee is the Miami of Wisconsin.

Man if the Bucks can stay healthy that’s a wrap.

KoryMac5

09-27-2023, 03:22 PM

Speculation that Holiday gets flipped soon...76ers, Heat, and Clippers are interested.

SteelSD

09-27-2023, 03:39 PM

Milwaukee is the Miami of Wisconsin.

Man if the Bucks can stay healthy that’s a wrap.

I'm more scared of the bucks with Jrue than I am with Lillard.

BuckeyeRed27

09-27-2023, 04:07 PM

I'm more scared of the bucks with Jrue than I am with Lillard.

Nah. Jrue is good, but he’s been an offensive liability for a bit and that’s not getting better.

dubc47834

09-27-2023, 04:30 PM

incoming woj bomb: Lillard to mil.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1707096933708509295

i love this trade from the bucks end!!!!

KoryMac5

09-27-2023, 04:54 PM

Has anyone checked in on KP our resident Blazers fan?

SteelSD

09-27-2023, 06:07 PM

Nah. Jrue is good, but he’s been an offensive liability for a bit and that’s not getting better.

Jrue Holiday 2022-23:

19.3 PPG
.384 3-Pt%
7.4 APG
56% Shooting Efficiency (same as Lillard)

Offensive liability?

Mutaman

09-27-2023, 06:22 PM

Wow!!! Thanks for the memories and that big ring Jrue. Good luck in the future-you are a great guy.

Assume Giannis (and Brook and Middleton) had some input here.

Kingspoint

09-27-2023, 08:50 PM

Wow!!! Thanks for the memories and that big ring Jrue. Good luck in the future-you are a great guy.

Assume Giannis (and Brook and Middleton) had some input here.

Congratulations, Mutaman! The Milwaukee TrailBucks (Stotts, RoLo, Connaughton, Dame, Wes..now in ATL, though)

I love how Miami is getting screwed in all of this.

Will be rooting for the Bucks to win the NBA Championship the next three seasons.

- - - Updated - - -

Jrue Holiday 2022-23:

19.3 PPG
.384 3-Pt%
7.4 APG
56% Shooting Efficiency (same as Lillard)

Offensive liability?

And, he was the best player in the playoffs two years ago.

I wonder which team tries to keep pace with MIL by trading for him over the next 48 hours?

Kingspoint

09-27-2023, 08:52 PM

Full details of the trade, provided by The Athletic's Shams Charania: Bucks receive: Damian Lillard. Blazers receive: Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, a 2029 first-round pick (Bucks) and a pick swap (Bucks). Suns receive: Jusuf Nurkic, Nassir Little, Keon Johnson and Grayson Allen.

Two pick swaps...2028 and 2030. What they get when they flip Holiday should be about 2 more 1st's or 1 1st and a young forward.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm more scared of the bucks with Jrue than I am with Lillard.

Nah. Lillard won't have a bad playoff like Jrue did this last season.

Mutaman

09-27-2023, 09:08 PM

Still the same issues for Milwaukee: They need to be healthy for the post season and Giannis needs to improve his free throw shooting. Biggest deal they could make is to hire Rick Barry to come in and work with him.

Mutaman

09-27-2023, 09:17 PM

Congratulations, Mutaman! The Milwaukee TrailBucks (Stotts, RoLo, Connaughton, Dame, Wes..now in ATL, though)
?

Thanks. Was hiring Stotts a precursor of this?

BuckeyeRed27

09-27-2023, 11:02 PM

Jrue Holiday 2022-23:

19.3 PPG
.384 3-Pt%
7.4 APG
56% Shooting Efficiency (same as Lillard)

Offensive liability?

He’s inconsistent and cam he taken away depending on playoff matchups. There isn’t a universe where they aren’t better by a large margin with Dame.

Mutaman

09-27-2023, 11:16 PM

Really wish the Redlegs ran their organization like the Bucks do. Or even like the Brewers do for that matter.

SteelSD

09-27-2023, 11:31 PM

He’s inconsistent and cam he taken away depending on playoff matchups. There isn’t a universe where they aren’t better by a large margin with Dame.

Except a universe where defense is played. But really, it's good that Holiday moving on. The Bucks were never going to win an NBA championship with him on the roster.

Oh...wait...

Kingspoint

09-29-2023, 12:13 AM

Except a universe where defense is played. But really, it's good that Holiday moving on. The Bucks were never going to win an NBA championship with him on the roster.

Oh...wait...

Giannis was never going to stay in town with Holiday. He'll stay with Dame. That's why the move gets made.

Philly would be a great landing spot for Holiday, but they need to give up Maxey and stop being delusional about Maxey. Dump Harden already.

Kingspoint

09-29-2023, 12:17 AM

Thanks. Was hiring Stotts a precursor of this?

No, but Milwaukee has a class franchise. Class players like Stotts and Dame will migrate that direction. Dame had already signed off with MIL and the Nets as preference destinations, btw. MIL was the best possible landing spot for him. I truly hope MIL wins the next 3 Championships.

The Oddsmakers think he makes a major difference over Holiday as their odds for winning doubled with the addition of Dame and the removal of Holiday and Grayson.

The Lopez twins playing together is going to provide nightly interview moments (though all of them will be from RoLo). Robin Lopez is one of the funniest guys in the world.

The P&R with Dame/Giannis? Scary. Unstoppable.

Dame and Middleton can take all of those 4th Quarter free throws now. Giannis won't have to handle the ball when there's under 5 minutes to go (except for lob dunks off of Dame/Middleton drives).

SteelSD

09-29-2023, 07:25 AM

Giannis was never going to stay in town with Holiday. He'll stay with Dame. That's why the move gets made.

Philly would be a great landing spot for Holiday, but they need to give up Maxey and stop being delusional about Maxey. Dump Harden already.

Would love to have Holiday back. Can't do it without moving Harden. No idea what you mean by, "...stop being delusional about Maxey". I'm sorry Dame ran away. I bought this for you:

20421

Kingspoint

09-29-2023, 05:01 PM

Would love to have Holiday back. Can't do it without moving Harden. No idea what you mean by, "...stop being delusional about Maxey". I'm sorry Dame ran away. I bought this for you:

Philadelphia was asleep at the wheel, refusing to include Maxey in a deal involving Dame. They would continue to be asleep at the wheel if they refused to include Maxey for Holiday, unless Holiday isn't as good as you seem to think he is.

The reality, is that Holiday, on a much, much friendlier contract, was moved for Dame, while they also threw in for Dame, a 2029 unprotected 1st Round pick when it's highly likely that Dame and Giannis are both gone and MIL then goes back to not being a destination for Free Agents like most of the small market teams in cold environments. They then also threw in Grayson Allen, and unprotected 1st Round swaps in two more years when it's likely that both Dame and Giannis are gone, 2028 and 2030, and that Scoot, Shaedon and Ayton are hitting their stride, along with other young lottery players that the team will acquire that should place their draft spots higher than Milwaukee's in both 2028 and 2030.

Tor was asleep at the wheel again, too, once again overvaluing their own talent be refusing to include OG in any Dame deal. They should have taken the New Orleans offer for Anunoby last season. They'll never get anything close to that again.

Building around an Embiid/Holiday foundation is a no-brainer (not anywhere near as good as an Embiid/Dame foundation) and there's no other player on the team that should prevent it.

As far as being sorry that "Dame ran away", it just continues to show how clueless you really are when it comes to understanding the NBA players. We began the rebuilding phase when we drafted Shooting Guard Shaedon Sharpe, traded away or sat with fake injuries all of our Veterans so we could tank to get Sharpe, tanked again and traded away more veterans to get Henderson, gauranteed more tanking when we replaced a 7-time Coach-of-the-Month in Terry Stotts with a Coach who lacked any experience whatsoever in Billups, knowing full well that it would take many years just for him to develop into an average coach.

The move of Lillard to another team was forced onto him by the Blazers, not forced on the Blazers by Dame.

You can cry for the next three years along with Miami while Milwaukee wins the next three titles and Philadelphia wasted all of Embiid's years because of piss-poor management by the Sixers. Seriously? They picked to keep Simmons over Butler? They let Holiday go? They bring in Harden? What are they thinking?

They could salvage it all right now if they get smart and put a package together that gets them Holiday to pair with Embiid. What they have after that doesn't matter, but this is an opportunity that won't prevent itself again that gives them a chance to try to compete with the Bucks. Milwaukee was already the best team in the East. Now they're the best team in the NBA the way the Bulls were when they had Jordan and Pippen together.