2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part III: De Ja Vu?

[WVRed]

Other one is over 1,000 posts.

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[Hillsdale87]

I don't get the hate for Zac Taylor's playcalling last night. He's not an elite playcaller, but he's been fine. I wish he was like McDaniel, or Shanahan, or McVay, but there aren't many guys like that in the league. The Bengals finished 4th in Offensive DVOA last year after a bad start and behind a terrible OL. Yes, he's coaching very good players, but the stats would suggest that he's utilizing them well.

This season, Burrow is 2-20 on throws 15+ yards down the field. He can't throw the ball past the sticks right now, and opponents know that. It's hard to draw up creative plays when you've got almost no even intermediate threat, and when the QB justifiably wants to get rid of the ball at the first sign of pressure. But there were guys open last night. Tee killed multiple drives on his own with either drops or stupidity. Burrow missed open guys. Burrow missed all of preseason and is barely practicing right now. His timing and ball placement are both off. It was a bad game from Joe (obviously has a legitimate excuse) and a terrible game from Tee. Decent games from both of those guys probably gets the Bengals to 30 points. IMO this is mostly an execution issue on the players' side, with the biggest unfortunately being at QB. Right now it's not really anybody's fault because Burrow's play is mostly injury related, but it's just unfortunate.

[RiverRat13]

I don't get the hate for Zac Taylor's playcalling last night. He's not an elite playcaller, but he's been fine. I wish he was like McDaniel, or Shanahan, or McVay, but there aren't many guys like that in the league. The Bengals finished 4th in Offensive DVOA last year after a bad start and behind a terrible OL. Yes, he's coaching very good players, but the stats would suggest that he's utilizing them well.

This season, Burrow is 2-20 on throws 15+ yards down the field. He can't throw the ball past the sticks right now, and opponents know that. It's hard to draw up creative plays when you've got almost no even intermediate threat, and when the QB justifiably wants to get rid of the ball at the first sign of pressure. But there were guys open last night. Tee killed multiple drives on his own with either drops or stupidity. Burrow missed open guys. Burrow missed all of preseason and is barely practicing right now. His timing and ball placement are both off. It was a bad game from Joe (obviously has a legitimate excuse) and a terrible game from Tee. Decent games from both of those guys probably gets the Bengals to 30 points. IMO this is mostly an execution issue on the players' side, with the biggest unfortunately being at QB. Right now it's not really anybody's fault because Burrow's play is mostly injury related, but it's just unfortunate.

Two weeks in a row where Joe and the offense have clearly gotten better as the game progressed. I think that's a big tell that his lack of reps at practice is hampering this offense. Tee's performance is helping much, either. But this version of Joe Burrow at (60? 70?) percent is a bottom tier quarterback.

[bucksfan2]

I wonder if Tee's contract situation is effecting his play?

[Todd Gack]

I don't get the hate for Zac Taylor's playcalling last night. He's not an elite playcaller, but he's been fine. I wish he was like McDaniel, or Shanahan, or McVay, but there aren't many guys like that in the league. The Bengals finished 4th in Offensive DVOA last year after a bad start and behind a terrible OL. Yes, he's coaching very good players, but the stats would suggest that he's utilizing them well.

This season, Burrow is 2-20 on throws 15+ yards down the field. He can't throw the ball past the sticks right now, and opponents know that. It's hard to draw up creative plays when you've got almost no even intermediate threat, and when the QB justifiably wants to get rid of the ball at the first sign of pressure. But there were guys open last night. Tee killed multiple drives on his own with either drops or stupidity. Burrow missed open guys. Burrow missed all of preseason and is barely practicing right now. His timing and ball placement are both off. It was a bad game from Joe (obviously has a legitimate excuse) and a terrible game from Tee. Decent games from both of those guys probably gets the Bengals to 30 points. IMO this is mostly an execution issue on the players' side, with the biggest unfortunately being at QB. Right now it's not really anybody's fault because Burrow's play is mostly injury related, but it's just unfortunate.

What's the point of hiring an OC if the Head Coach is calling the plays?

[WVRed]

What's the point of hiring an OC if the Head Coach is calling the plays?The idea would be that Zac would give up playcalling to the new offensive coordinator.

Some head coaches call plays, some don't. Zac needs to delegate.

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[WVRed]

I wonder if Tee's contract situation is effecting his play?If anything I would think it would entice him to play better and get a better payday.

Not understanding it though since he had a great game last week.

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[Hillsdale87]

What's the point of hiring an OC if the Head Coach is calling the plays?

Reid, McVay, McDaniel, and Shanahan all call plays. It seems to work ok for them. Not saying Zac is as good as those guys, and maybe he should hand it off, but it's not like it's crazy for the head coach to also be the play caller.


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[KoryMac5]

I wonder if Tee's contract situation is effecting his play?

I wonder if it is this combined with playing his old college teammate and wanting to impress.

[KoryMac5]

As far as play calling from what I have always read they give Burrow 2-3 plays to choose from and he is supposed to check to what he feels works best...Taylor said last night a lot of runs were called and Burrow checked to passes.

[Todd Gack]

Reid, McVay, McDaniel, and Shanahan all call plays. It seems to work ok for them. Not saying Zac is as good as those guys, and maybe he should hand it off, but it's not like it's crazy for the head coach to also be the play caller.


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I dislike Zac. I think he's milquetoast who is carried immensely by the amount of talent he has on offense that he lucked into. He's a good HC to lead the type of team we have now and great for the locker room. He doesn't pass the "eye test" when it comes to calling plays. Their stubborness to not get a quality TE in the draft or FA really hurts them. I feel like we don't utilize the running game as much as we should. I'd love to go under center more than zero times a game.

But I can at least agree that Burrow's calf is hampering things for now. But then again, I think he's a major reason Burrow's calf is the way it is. . . so I don't know.

[bucksfan2]

I dislike Zac. I think he's milquetoast who is carried immensely by the amount of talent he has on offense that he lucked into. He's a good HC to lead the type of team we have now and great for the locker room. He doesn't pass the "eye test" when it comes to calling plays. Their stubborness to not get a quality TE in the draft or FA really hurts them. I feel like we don't utilize the running game as much as we should. I'd love to go under center more than zero times a game.

But I can at least agree that Burrow's calf is hampering things for now. But then again, I think he's a major reason Burrow's calf is the way it is. . . so I don't know.

Just curious, do you hold Taylor responsible for every Bengals injury? Or is it just Burrow's?

[Hillsdale87]

I dislike Zac. I think he's milquetoast who is carried immensely by the amount of talent he has on offense that he lucked into. He's a good HC to lead the type of team we have now and great for the locker room. He doesn't pass the "eye test" when it comes to calling plays. Their stubborness to not get a quality TE in the draft or FA really hurts them. I feel like we don't utilize the running game as much as we should. I'd love to go under center more than zero times a game.

But I can at least agree that Burrow's calf is hampering things for now. But then again, I think he's a major reason Burrow's calf is the way it is. . . so I don't know.

Zac wants to be under center a lot more. Burrow just isn't good at it. They tried to do it early last year, scrapped it after week 5 when it wasn't working, and then they took off. The Bengals are not running the "Zac Taylor offense". Taylor adapted his plan to what Burrow does well, which is what a good coach does. They haven't had a chance to have Burrow work on the things he's bad at because he misses every training camp. I think Zac would love to mesh some of the Rams offensive scheme with the shotgun stuff that Burrow is already good at. Hopefully someday. We can dream that Burrow will have a healthy preseason at some point in his career...

A better TE would be nice, but it doesn't really hurt them. The TE depth chart is probably more a Tobin thing than a Zac thing too. They were an elite offense last year. You're not going to have elite players at every position. They have 3 very good to great WRs, and so they make the decision to go cheap at TE to invest elsewhere. Every team is making these evaluations on trade offs, and there are 30 other teams (probably not the Dolphins) who would trade their pass catchers for what the Bengals have.


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[Bob Sheed]

It's worth pointing out that pre-Burrow, Zac Taylor was pretty much Dave Shula 2.0.

And many of you will also recall that even drafting Burrow wasn't enough to get the offense going. They had to break their shiny new toy and punt the season, so they could get shiny new toy #2, Jamaar Chase.

Only then, did Zac Taylor stop looking like Dave Shula Part II. All he needed was a generational QB and 3 Elite WRs. :dunno: :lol:

Without all of these shiny toys on offense, all perfectly healthy, Zac Taylor's playcalling looks pedestrian at best. We've seen this. It doesn't even have to be Burrow. If Chase, Higgins, or Boyd goes down, the offense grinds to a halt.

This guy needs a generational QB, and 3 #1 WRs to make anything happen. That's freaking pathetic. Taylor has no business designing or calling plays in the NFL. None. There's a conga-line of NFL coaches out there who could do far more with far less.

[Sea Ray]

I don't get the hate for Zac Taylor's playcalling last night. He's not an elite playcaller, but he's been fine. I wish he was like McDaniel, or Shanahan, or McVay, but there aren't many guys like that in the league. The Bengals finished 4th in Offensive DVOA last year after a bad start and behind a terrible OL. Yes, he's coaching very good players, but the stats would suggest that he's utilizing them well.

This season, Burrow is 2-20 on throws 15+ yards down the field. He can't throw the ball past the sticks right now, and opponents know that. It's hard to draw up creative plays when you've got almost no even intermediate threat, and when the QB justifiably wants to get rid of the ball at the first sign of pressure. But there were guys open last night. Tee killed multiple drives on his own with either drops or stupidity. Burrow missed open guys. Burrow missed all of preseason and is barely practicing right now. His timing and ball placement are both off. It was a bad game from Joe (obviously has a legitimate excuse) and a terrible game from Tee. Decent games from both of those guys probably gets the Bengals to 30 points. IMO this is mostly an execution issue on the players' side, with the biggest unfortunately being at QB. Right now it's not really anybody's fault because Burrow's play is mostly injury related, but it's just unfortunate.

I have noproblem with his playcalling. I have a problem with the undisciplined penalties and the poor play of Tee Higgins. Zac is responsible for discipline on his team and I believe he needs to address Tee. I would give more playing time to the rookie we drafted out of Princeton. The Rams were getting great production out of their rookie WR last night. Why can't we?

[LiferJim]

Let’s not forget what the offense did the previous two seasons with a piss poor offensive line. IMO, Taylor absolutely deserves some credit for that.

That said, I do feel like the offense wasn’t well prepared in week one against the Browns and I feel like the fact Burrow had zero reps in the preseason should have dictated a different game plan.


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[traderumor]

I do not understand why it would be a criticism to have great players who make plays. This is the NFL, and gimmicks and scheme just do not get you very far. And I am as frustrated as anyone watching the struggles. I think coaches need cudos for getting Chase the ball creatively last night and getting the D rocking finally. Not at peak performance, but they got the win. Tough road game gonna need to play cleaner to win at Titans.

[Reds Freak]

It's worth pointing out that pre-Burrow, Zac Taylor was pretty much Dave Shula 2.0.

And many of you will also recall that even drafting Burrow wasn't enough to get the offense going. They had to break their shiny new toy and punt the season, so they could get shiny new toy #2, Jamaar Chase.

Only then, did Zac Taylor stop looking like Dave Shula Part II. All he needed was a generational QB and 3 Elite WRs. :dunno: :lol:

Without all of these shiny toys on offense, all perfectly healthy, Zac Taylor's playcalling looks pedestrian at best. We've seen this. It doesn't even have to be Burrow. If Chase, Higgins, or Boyd goes down, the offense grinds to a halt.

This guy needs a generational QB, and 3 #1 WRs to make anything happen. That's freaking pathetic. Taylor has no business designing or calling plays in the NFL. None. There's a conga-line of NFL coaches out there who could do far more with far less.

Zac Taylor was here one season pre-Burrow and he was dealt one of the worst rosters I've ever seen an NFL team field. I'm not arguing Zac is perfect, but comparing that year to Dave Shula's six-year tenure is silly.

[oregonred]

Do we have the PFF grades from last night? The OL should grade out well. I did see Trey was a 92.1.

[Hillsdale87]

Do we have the PFF grades from last night? The OL should grade out well. I did see Trey was a 92.1.

I haven't seen all the grades, but Volson had a 0.0 pass blocking grade [emoji23]


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[Todd Gack]

It's worth pointing out that pre-Burrow, Zac Taylor was pretty much Dave Shula 2.0.

And many of you will also recall that even drafting Burrow wasn't enough to get the offense going. They had to break their shiny new toy and punt the season, so they could get shiny new toy #2, Jamaar Chase.

Only then, did Zac Taylor stop looking like Dave Shula Part II. All he needed was a generational QB and 3 Elite WRs. :dunno: :lol:

Without all of these shiny toys on offense, all perfectly healthy, Zac Taylor's playcalling looks pedestrian at best. We've seen this. It doesn't even have to be Burrow. If Chase, Higgins, or Boyd goes down, the offense grinds to a halt.

This guy needs a generational QB, and 3 #1 WRs to make anything happen. That's freaking pathetic. Taylor has no business designing or calling plays in the NFL. None. There's a conga-line of NFL coaches out there who could do far more with far less.

Correct.

- - - Updated - - -


I haven't seen all the grades, but Volson had a 0.0 pass blocking grade [emoji23]


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Brad Robbins is the worst punter after 3 weeks too.

[Sea Ray]

I haven't seen all the grades, but Volson had a 0.0 pass blocking grade [emoji23]




I get it but Aaron Donald does that to a lot of guys

[bucksfan2]

I get it but Aaron Donald does that to a lot of guys

Its funny because I was watching the game thinking that the Bengals were doing a good job on Donald early. Then he wore them down and dominated. Guy is such a game wrecker when he is on.

[KoryMac5]

Jonah Williams has fit in nicely at RT graded out 100.00 according to PFF in pass blocking.

Aaron Rodgers was on with McAfee for his usual spot said he doesn't think people realize how much pain Burrow was in...said he texted with him last week about the calf.

I would imagine the next few weeks we will see a lot more dink and dunk until the calf warms up.

25% run efficiency needs to be better.

[Tony Cloninger]

As bad as Alexander was late in his tenure he still coached up some OL. They even had some Ok depth too. It’s been just barely average since then though. They just do a bad job at drafting and developing OL. The complete opposite of what they do with WR and DL. TE as well.

[KoryMac5]

It's worth pointing out that pre-Burrow, Zac Taylor was pretty much Dave Shula 2.0.

And many of you will also recall that even drafting Burrow wasn't enough to get the offense going. They had to break their shiny new toy and punt the season, so they could get shiny new toy #2, Jamaar Chase.

Only then, did Zac Taylor stop looking like Dave Shula Part II. All he needed was a generational QB and 3 Elite WRs. :dunno: :lol:

Without all of these shiny toys on offense, all perfectly healthy, Zac Taylor's playcalling looks pedestrian at best. We've seen this. It doesn't even have to be Burrow. If Chase, Higgins, or Boyd goes down, the offense grinds to a halt.

This guy needs a generational QB, and 3 #1 WRs to make anything happen. That's freaking pathetic. Taylor has no business designing or calling plays in the NFL. None. There's a conga-line of NFL coaches out there who could do far more with far less.

It was a bad take when you first put the Dave Shula 2.0 Zac Attack nonsense out there and still holds to this day...

Taylor is a top 10-12 HC in this league...as a play-caller he leaves a lot to be desired.

Honestly in looking around the NFL what head coach's success isn't directly tied to his QB or his personnel. Tobin drafted Burrow, and he (Burrow) Callahan and Taylor went to work on installing an offense that fit the personnel the team had. A lot of head coaches and FO's have ruined many a good QB Derek Carr and Andrew Luck being two of the more recent ones I can remember. Burrow seems to be thriving as evidenced by one of the richest contracts in NFL history. AS the calf gets better I think we will see what the offense is capable of.

I suppose we could go back to Marvin Milquetoast Lewis and his 0-8 playoff record...I hear he's available.

[Hillsdale87]

It's worth pointing out that pre-Burrow, Zac Taylor was pretty much Dave Shula 2.0.

And many of you will also recall that even drafting Burrow wasn't enough to get the offense going. They had to break their shiny new toy and punt the season, so they could get shiny new toy #2, Jamaar Chase.

Only then, did Zac Taylor stop looking like Dave Shula Part II. All he needed was a generational QB and 3 Elite WRs. :dunno: :lol:

Without all of these shiny toys on offense, all perfectly healthy, Zac Taylor's playcalling looks pedestrian at best. We've seen this. It doesn't even have to be Burrow. If Chase, Higgins, or Boyd goes down, the offense grinds to a halt.

This guy needs a generational QB, and 3 #1 WRs to make anything happen. That's freaking pathetic. Taylor has no business designing or calling plays in the NFL. None. There's a conga-line of NFL coaches out there who could do far more with far less.

There are so many things wrong in this post that it's hard to organize my thoughts, but...

It's also worth pointing out that ZT won a playoff game for the first time in 30 years and took the Bengals to the super bowl for the first time in 33 years in just his third season. He's hired great coaches and built a stable organization. I know it seems crazy that he couldn't win more games in 2019 with Andy Dalton throwing to John Ross and Alex Erickson, but it's good to see he's gotten better since [emoji849][emoji849].

The Bengals offense was awesome last year when Chase missed time. They were terrible in that Cleveland Monday night game and then dominant from there. The Bengals got to the Super Bowl behind a historically bad OL and then made it within seconds of a second one with an OL down 3 starters. Meanwhile his QB has never had an off-season, so he's making adjustments during the season and has had the team rolling at the most critical time the last two years.

Every good coach has great players. Players matter more than coaches, but the coach's job is to maximize the talent of the players. Considering the Bengals have been a top 4 team each of the last 2 years, I'd say the results are at worst at expectations. For a coach to have done more the last two years, you'd have to believe the Bengals should be back to back Super Bowl champs.


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[WVRed]

Reid, McVay, McDaniel, and Shanahan all call plays. It seems to work ok for them. Not saying Zac is as good as those guys, and maybe he should hand it off, but it's not like it's crazy for the head coach to also be the play caller.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSomething to consider:

Outside of Reid and to a lesser extent McVay offensive minded coaches are usually a flash in the pan in the NFL. Shanahan might get a pass because he is basically running a suped up version of his dad's offense. Outside of Andy Reid the lifespan for an offensive minded head coach on one team isn't very long for this reason.

Using Zac as an example, teams have seen his bag of tricks. Defenses have already started to adjust and the Bengals have struggled. I think this would also be true if Burrow wasn't hurt again.

I look at Zac the same as Pete Carroll, John Harbaugh, or Mike Tomlin (God help me on the last two). He's rebuilt the culture taking the Bengals from being the NFLs version of the Jailblazers to a team who drafts based on character and leadership and it has paid off in getting them to the Super Bowl. That said he's only as good as his assistants and right now I think he would be better served to bring in an offensive coordinator who could inject some life into the offense.

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[oregonred]

Zac won 10 in a row last year after the Cleveland debacle and did a great job on the other 3-4 games Chase missed. I would prefer a new, creative playcaller seeing how Reid and McDaniel are scheming guys wide open, but I think Burrow has full discretion to check out of run plays which sounds like was the case last night.

I would say the league hasn't caught up to him, but the mediocre starts are making the last half of the season and road playoff games an uphill battle.

Still he has won as many playoff games as Tomlin and Harbaugh combined over the last 10 years. With a garbage line in 2021 and down 3 OL starters in the playoffs last year.

[Kingspoint]

I wonder if Tee's contract situation is effecting his play?

I wonder if Burrow's contract he just signed is effecting his play?

All of a sudden, he's got a quarter of a billion dollars to figure out what to do with it.

[Todd Gack]

I wonder if Burrow's contract he just signed is effecting his play?

All of a sudden, he's got a quarter of a billion dollars to figure out what to do with it.

I think that's a very fair question too.

[Hillsdale87]

I wonder if Burrow's contract he just signed is effecting his play?

All of a sudden, he's got a quarter of a billion dollars to figure out what to do with it.

I think the debilitating injury and lack of practice is probably a bigger factor in Burrow's poor start [emoji849]. Burrow was already set for life financially. This new contract is not a distraction


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[Hillsdale87]

Something to consider:

Outside of Reid and to a lesser extent McVay offensive minded coaches are usually a flash in the pan in the NFL. Shanahan might get a pass because he is basically running a suped up version of his dad's offense. Outside of Andy Reid the lifespan for an offensive minded head coach on one team isn't very long for this reason.

Using Zac as an example, teams have seen his bag of tricks. Defenses have already started to adjust and the Bengals have struggled. I think this would also be true if Burrow wasn't hurt again.

I look at Zac the same as Pete Carroll, John Harbaugh, or Mike Tomlin (God help me on the last two). He's rebuilt the culture taking the Bengals from being the NFLs version of the Jailblazers to a team who drafts based on character and leadership and it has paid off in getting them to the Super Bowl. That said he's only as good as his assistants and right now I think he would be better served to bring in an offensive coordinator who could inject some life into the offense.

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Both coaches in each of the last 4 SBs have been offensive coaches. The lifespan of any coach in the NFL is short. Offensive coaches are no more a flash in the pan than any others.

Last year teams adjusted to the Bengals, and then the Bengals adjusted to that and dominated. Every team is going to deal with some bumps. The Patriots did, the Chiefs looked very mediocre for a while a couple years ago as teams went 2 high on them. But great teams adjust, and for 2 years in a row Zac has figured out how to do that.


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[Bob Sheed]

I think some here are conflating Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator positions.

Zac Taylor certainly is... :rockband:

I think Taylor is a fine HC. As an Offensive Coordinator though, I think there's a lot of coaches out there that could do more with less, and the only reason why Taylor has either job right now is because he hit the jackpot with a generational QB.

[Todd Gack]

I think some here are conflating Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator positions.

Zac Taylor certainly is... :rockband:

I think Taylor is a fine HC. As an Offensive Coordinator though, I think there's a lot of coaches out there that could do more with less, and the only reason why Taylor has either job right now is because he hit the jackpot with a generational QB.

Some darn good takes on this subject.

I'll also add that we know some of the limitations on offense with the OL, etc but that's part of the coaching staff's/organization's own fault too. We were lucky with Hurst's production but the early returns from Smith aren't great. Still early though.

And, we also made an awful pick with Jackson Carman which pretty much everyone questioned to begin with.

Our offense was the reason we didn't win a Super Bowl or the AFCCG last year. The defense is the reason we made both those runs.

[RiverRat13]

Occam's Razor - the quarterback is physically unable to drop back, so the under center packages that were worked on in OTAs are not viable.

I don't see Zac as an innovative coach, but he's shown to be good at adapting and stealing from the true innovators. If Burrow gets healthy enough, I think we'll see some new stuff in the offense. If he's going to be hobbled all season, then it's probably going to be 100% from the shotgun, which certainly limits what they can do.

[Todd Gack]

Another point I want to make about Burrow's injury is what I heard Rocky Boiman talk about this morning on 700WLW. He stated he sprained his MCL in his left leg in his 3rd year. He continued to go through practice and do everything a normal non-injured player would do. However, he ended up blowing out his calf muscle after about a month because he was using his right leg to support this body during that time.

I fear Joe's injury is going to lead to another bigger inury. It's like a ticking time bomb.

[RiverRat13]

We are up to 15 heads coaches who also call plays - https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38108724/key-intel-all-32-nfl-playcallers-including-mike-mccarthy

[bucksfan2]

Another point I want to make about Burrow's injury is what I heard Rocky Boiman talk about this morning on 700WLW. He stated he sprained his MCL in his left leg in his 3rd year. He continued to go through practice and do everything a normal non-injured player would do. However, he ended up blowing out his calf muscle after about a month because he was using his right leg to support this body during that time.

I fear Joe's injury is going to lead to another bigger inury. It's like a ticking time bomb.

I take what Rocky Boiman says with a grain of salt. But what he says makes sense, with a weaker body part, it stresses the other parts. I don't know how much a strained calf muscle is related to a MCL sprain. I also don't know if a fringe, special teams player who must get by on all out hustle really applies to your franchise QB.

I think there are things the Bengals are doing right now because Burrow is limited, but I don't think they are putting him at further risk. And to be honest, a guy like Rocky Boiman is easily replaceable in the NFL. Guys like Joe Burrow aren't, and they aren't going to put him out there if there is additional risk.

There is going to be a portion of the fan base who thinks what they are doing with Burrow is wrong, regardless of what they do. That is fine, its pretty much accepted practice among NFL fans. I think Burrow is in a place where the calf is going to be a nagging issue, it probably will heal slowly with treatment, but he is going to play through the injury. I doubt there is additional risk that he is taking on, or he wouldn't be playing. I think the hope is he is able to push through the injury until the bye week and hopefully he will be in a better place outside of the bye week.

[Hillsdale87]

Occam's Razor - the quarterback is physically unable to drop back, so the under center packages that were worked on in OTAs are not viable.

I don't see Zac as an innovative coach, but he's shown to be good at adapting and stealing from the true innovators. If Burrow gets healthy enough, I think we'll see some new stuff in the offense. If he's going to be hobbled all season, then it's probably going to be 100% from the shotgun, which certainly limits what they can do.

Last game stole some motion from what the Dolphins have been doing. Also, for people complaining about an inability to scheme guys open, Chase is 5th in the NFL in "open" or "wide open" targets this year.

[Hillsdale87]

I think some here are conflating Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator positions.

Zac Taylor certainly is... :rockband:

I think Taylor is a fine HC. As an Offensive Coordinator though, I think there's a lot of coaches out there that could do more with less, and the only reason why Taylor has either job right now is because he hit the jackpot with a generational QB.

Again, they finished 2022 4th in Offensive DVOA after starting the season very poorly. I don't know where the Bengals offensive personnel ranks in the league, but it's certainly near the top. WRs + QB are top 3, but the offensive line certainly causes them to drop. From a personnel standpoint, they're probably in the category of KC, Philly, and Buffalo, and that's right where they finished last year. At worst the offense is living up to realistic expectations. I don't think he's an incredible OC. He's certainly not wowed me, although I feel like we have to grade his OC performance as incomplete until Burrow can actually run the full offense, but he's coordinated a very good offense.

[Hillsdale87]

Some darn good takes on this subject.

I'll also add that we know some of the limitations on offense with the OL, etc but that's part of the coaching staff's/organization's own fault too. We were lucky with Hurst's production but the early returns from Smith aren't great. Still early though.

And, we also made an awful pick with Jackson Carman which pretty much everyone questioned to begin with.

Our offense was the reason we didn't win a Super Bowl or the AFCCG last year. The defense is the reason we made both those runs.

One thing to note with the OL... It does seem like it's in a much better place so far this year. It's not an elite unit, but I was pretty impressed with the play against the Rams. It would have been ideal for the OL to be better in 2021, but that team probably was 1 or 2 years ahead of schedule. Nobody anticipated that a team coming off a 4-11-1 season with a QB recovering from a torn ACL was going to make a run to the Super Bowl. That's a credit to the coaching staff and of course the players. But I don't think that team was structured with Super Bowl in mind. If they could have seen into the future, they probably would have spent more time on the OL.

It's a bit similar to the Reds this year where most thought this team would be terrible, and then almost everybody played above expectation. Had the organization been able to forecast the kind of production they got from the rookies, they probably would have done some different things in the offseason to shore up the team (or at least hopefully they would have - nothing about this season has changed my low confidence in ownership).

[Sea Ray]

Last game stole some motion from what the Dolphins have been doing. Also, for people complaining about an inability to scheme guys open, Chase is 5th in the NFL in "open" or "wide open" targets this year.

I don't know where that stat comes from and I'm only going by what the angles on TV show but I'm not seeing many guys open. I'm seeing Burrow throwing into really tight windows

[Hillsdale87]

Good chart showing Burrow's struggles so far. He's a warrior to play through this, but he's completely lost the elite part of his game. Fortunate to be 1-2 considering the QB limitations, and hopefully he will continue to improve every week

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230927/8a1c851e6aff6d05b499db85f6db4d38.jpg


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[KoryMac5]

Dehner has a nice article in the Athletic about the offense and the early struggles...

Complex issue without 1 direct cause...
Dropped passes (more than double what they had this time last year)
Dumb penalties (Mixon, Boyd false starts)
Run game (25% efficiency rating)
Burrow health (Callahan said it was a cop out to use as an excuse but it does need to be acknowledged...Joe is not able to create on the run.)

I think a lot of that gets fixed soon...but I do think having a training camp and preseason with the starters more involved may help work that out in the long run.

[bucksfan2]

Dehner has a nice article in the Athletic about the offense and the early struggles...

Complex issue without 1 direct cause...
Dropped passes (more than double what they had this time last year)
Dumb penalties (Mixon, Boyd false starts)
Run game (25% efficiency rating)
Burrow health (Callahan said it was a cop out to use as an excuse but it does need to be acknowledged...Joe is not able to create on the run.)

I think a lot of that gets fixed soon...but I do think having a training camp and preseason with the starters more involved may help work that out in the long run.

I am not picking on Tee, but the Rams game may look completely different if he doesn't drop two balls. Those were two first down catches, one on a drive in which they were rolling.

The false starts should get fixed, its not often you go from 3rd and 1 to 3rd and 11.

[oregonred]

I wonder if the Hamlin MNF game impacted Tee to some extent on the same setting and stage.

[Kingspoint]

I am not picking on Tee, but the Rams game may look completely different if he doesn't drop two balls. Those were two first down catches, one on a drive in which they were rolling.

The false starts should get fixed, its not often you go from 3rd and 1 to 3rd and 11.

2?

He had 5 negative plays.

- - - Updated - - -


I think the debilitating injury and lack of practice is probably a bigger factor in Burrow's poor start [emoji849]. Burrow was already set for life financially. This new contract is not a distraction


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You speak from experience?

I mean, seriously. How could you even imagine you would have any idea what kind of distraction it could be?

[Hillsdale87]

2?

He had 5 negative plays.

- - - Updated - - -



You speak from experience?

I mean, seriously. How could you even imagine you would have any idea what kind of distraction it could be?

Sure it could be a distraction, but it hasn't been an issue for Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, etc. Nothing in Burrow's history would suggest he's a guy that's all about the money. On the other hand, we know he has a debilitating injury that most QBs wouldn't play with. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out which is more likely...


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[Todd Gack]

Sure it could be a distraction, but it hasn't been an issue for Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, etc. Nothing in Burrow's history would suggest he's a guy that's all about the money. On the other hand, we know he has a debilitating injury that most QBs wouldn't play with. I don't think it takes a genius to figure out which is more likely...


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So we're basically praising Burrow for setting his own house on fire and then trying to put it out?

[Tony Cloninger]

How is his new contract. Which was expected to happen a distraction. If he didn’t have one and it turned into a Lemar Jackson situation. That would be a distraction. Playing devils advocate or being a contrarian for the sake of a debate. That’s all this is. He’s playing hurt and lack of reps going into the season for these players is affecting this team. Higgins knows he’s going to get paid. He didn’t drop passes because he’s not into it. Or he’s distracted by Joe’s contract.

[RedTeamGo!]

Bengals fans turning on Burrow was not on my bingo card for this season. What in the world.

I think fans of every team, outside of like 3, would trade for Burrow in a heartbeat.

I do not think the Chiefs, Chargers, or Eagles would trade their QBs for Burrow, but everyone else would.

[Todd Gack]

Bengals fans turning on Burrow was not on my bingo card for this season. What in the world.

I think fans of every team, outside of like 3, would trade for Burrow in a heartbeat.

I do not think the Chiefs, Chargers, or Eagles would trade their QBs for Burrow, but everyone else would.

He's the highest paid player in league history. He should be held to the highest standard. That's how these things work.

No one is asking we get rid of him. We're just asking him to play like one of the best QBs in the league.

[RedTeamGo!]

He's the highest paid player in league history. He should be held to the highest standard. That's how these things work.

No one is asking we get rid of him. We're just asking him to play like one of the best QBs in the league.

He is hurt.

[dubc47834]

Bengals fans turning on Burrow was not on my bingo card for this season. What in the world.

I think fans of every team, outside of like 3, would trade for Burrow in a heartbeat.

I do not think the Chiefs, Chargers, or Eagles would trade their QBs for Burrow, but everyone else would.

Add the 'Fins to that list also. I think they are thrilled with Tua.

[RedTeamGo!]

Add the 'Fins to that list also. I think they are thrilled with Tua.

Yeah, but Tue is one or two more hits to his noggin from early retirement

[bucksfan2]

Bengals fans turning on Burrow was not on my bingo card for this season. What in the world.

I think fans of every team, outside of like 3, would trade for Burrow in a heartbeat.

I do not think the Chiefs, Chargers, or Eagles would trade their QBs for Burrow, but everyone else would.

Chiefs, Chargers, and probably the Bills. Although Allen has been up and down, I think he is an elite level QB when on. The Eagles are interesting because I don't know how sustainable Hurts is at that position. The unstoppable QB sneak will sooner or later be made illegal. Hurts derives a ton of value from his legs, something that doesn't exactly age well.

I think the Dolphins will jump at the opportunity to upgrade from Tua. He is playing well in that system, I don't know if they really want to commit to him long term.

[WVRed]

Chiefs, Chargers, and probably the Bills. Although Allen has been up and down, I think he is an elite level QB when on. The Eagles are interesting because I don't know how sustainable Hurts is at that position. The unstoppable QB sneak will sooner or later be made illegal. Hurts derives a ton of value from his legs, something that doesn't exactly age well.

I think the Dolphins will jump at the opportunity to upgrade from Tua. He is playing well in that system, I don't know if they really want to commit to him long term.I think Tua is going to be Lamar Jackson 2.0.

It'll be a situation where the team isn't 100% committed moving forward but in the end they will pony up the money because the alternative (a rebuild) isn't much better.

Miami is interesting though because how much of their success is based on Tua and how much is based on a system offense that teams will eventually catch up to? Reminds me of Mike Martz and the Rams in the 90s. Once teams made adjustments, Kurt Warner was done.

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[Oxilon]

Add the 'Fins to that list also. I think they are thrilled with Tua.

Up until McDaniels, Tua was on the verge of being a bust. And even with McDaniels, he still hasn't proven he can stay healthy. I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but I'm astonished at how the media and fans became such prisoners of the moment when giving their opinions on all things related to the NFL. We're still literally in September, but everyone has anointed the Dolphins the Super Bowl favorite, Joe Burrow is washed and the Browns as the team to beat in the AFC North.

[KoryMac5]

Bengals fans turning on Burrow was not on my bingo card for this season. What in the world.

I think fans of every team, outside of like 3, would trade for Burrow in a heartbeat.

I do not think the Chiefs, Chargers, or Eagles would trade their QBs for Burrow, but everyone else would.

Nah that is pretty well confined to one poster who has never had one positive thing to say about any player.

[Redsfaithful]

Nah that is pretty well confined to one poster who has never had one positive thing to say about any player.

Yeah I was about to say, there's not a contingent of Bengals fans turning on Burrow, you find cranks in every fan base.

[bucksfan2]

I think Tua is going to be Lamar Jackson 2.0.

It'll be a situation where the team isn't 100% committed moving forward but in the end they will pony up the money because the alternative (a rebuild) isn't much better.

Miami is interesting though because how much of their success is based on Tua and how much is based on a system offense that teams will eventually catch up to? Reminds me of Mike Martz and the Rams in the 90s. Once teams made adjustments, Kurt Warner was done.

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Tua is probably a better passer than Jackson, but not nearly as good of a rusher. What the Dolphins have built is pretty explosive, but you have to wonder about the longevity of Tua. The hits he took last year are scary, and I don't get the notion that McDaniel is 100% committed to Tua.

Kurt Warner is a HOF QB who did take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, came within inches of winning that SB. So I don't exactly see the comparison between the two. You may be right, once teams make adjustments against Miami things will change. But as of right now they are pretty damn explosive, and they have Hill and Waddle, one of the better WR combo in the league.

[LiferJim]

He is hurt.

Exactly, jeesh

[RiverRat13]

Up until McDaniels, Tua was on the verge of being a bust. And even with McDaniels, he still hasn't proven he can stay healthy. I'm not necessarily directing this at you, but I'm astonished at how the media and fans became such prisoners of the moment when giving their opinions on all things related to the NFL. We're still literally in September, but everyone has anointed the Dolphins the Super Bowl favorite, Joe Burrow is washed and the Browns as the team to beat in the AFC North.

That part is probably true. The Browns defense is legit.

[Todd Gack]

He is hurt.

Do you want me to explain, again, why he got hurt?

- - - Updated - - -


Nah that is pretty well confined to one poster who has never had one positive thing to say about any player.

On the other hand, there are some posters here who think he’s untouchable when it comes to criticism.

Korey can’t even admit it was Burrow and/or Zac’s own fault that he’s hurt.

[Todd Gack]

Yeah I was about to say, there's not a contingent of Bengals fans turning on Burrow, you find cranks in every fan base.

I’m not turning on him. Im just curious why many are not blaming him for this injury. I expect the highest paid player in the game to play like the highest paid player on the game. Again, this is how this whole thing works and will continue to work until his time here is done. He will take up a a very large portion of our salary cap in the very near future. If he’s not performing at that level, then we’re gonna end up with certain fans on this forum who are just happy to make the playoffs….at best.

[RedTeamGo!]

Do you want me to explain, again, why he got hurt?

- - - Updated - - -



On the other hand, there are some posters here who think he’s untouchable when it comes to criticism.

Korey can’t even admit it was Burrow and/or Zac’s own fault that he’s hurt.

No, I saw the post about what Rocky Boiman said on 700wlw. Doesn’t make it any less silly. Players play hurt all the time. If he wasn’t playing because of his injury I’m sure you wouldn’t be saying “the highest paid player in the league can’t tough out a soft tissue “injury”?

[KoryMac5]

Do you want me to explain, again, why he got hurt?

- - - Updated - - -



On the other hand, there are some posters here who think he’s untouchable when it comes to criticism.

Korey can’t even admit it was Burrow and/or Zac’s own fault that he’s hurt.


2nd day of camp a lot of guys are sore…and a lot of guys play through that soreness.

For some reason you just laser in on things and beat them to death…last year it was Hill and why he wasn’t playing. This year it’s Burrow and his calf and how Zach or Burrow botched the injury.

I just don’t know how players can anticipate soreness turning into something bigger especially on the 2nd day of camp. Seems normal for athletes to work through soreness and get treatment before and after practice.

[WVRed]

There's a part of me that wants to go Sonny Weaver Jr and offer Tee Higgins and three first round picks for Justin Jefferson.

I know the math would never work out but could you imagine Burrow having both of his top receivers from LSU together?

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[oregonred]

Glad you aren't the GM :)

[Kingspoint]

I hope the Bengals paid attention to the tape from Monday Night.

If they didn't see that the only successful throws by Burrow that produced 10-20 yards on a play were passes between the hashmarks, then the Browns are going to take a hard look at Taylor and begin to force him to give up play-calling duties. The Browns are stupid. They saw what everyone else saw....that none of the throws outside the hashmarks produced anything other than drive-killing plays.

There's no rule that says you have to use a TE in football. When you have one of the best in the NFL as a WR3 in Boyd with a catch percentage better than anyone else who runs routes in the league, and who has the body of a TE when it comes to using it against Safeties and Linebackers to create an open spot for Burrow, and who also has great run-after-catch abilities, the solution is quite simple. Use Boyd on as many plays as Chase and Higgins. He's not even aged like he should be as he's been a less than 50% play guy for a couple of seasons now.

There can also be two in the backfield (it should help the blocking and protection of Burrow). Higgins is big enough to run seem routes, too. He can run all of his routes in the seems if they wanted to do it, and then when the Defense starts to expect it and tries, double-move from the inside to the outside and there's a TD waiting for Burrow if he can sail it high enough to compensate for his inaccuracy right now so that Higgins can run under it. Chase is not the only Receiver they should be getting creative with.

[KoryMac5]

I hope the Bengals paid attention to the tape from Monday Night.

If they didn't see that the only successful throws by Burrow that produced 10-20 yards on a play were passes between the hashmarks, then the Browns are going to take a hard look at Taylor and begin to force him to give up play-calling duties. The Browns are stupid. They saw what everyone else saw....that none of the throws outside the hashmarks produced anything other than drive-killing plays.

There's no rule that says you have to use a TE in football. When you have one of the best in the NFL as a WR3 in Boyd with a catch percentage better than anyone else who runs routes in the league, and who has the body of a TE when it comes to using it against Safeties and Linebackers to create an open spot for Burrow, and who also has great run-after-catch abilities, the solution is quite simple. Use Boyd on as many plays as Chase and Higgins. He's not even aged like he should be as he's been a less than 50% play guy for a couple of seasons now.

There can also be two in the backfield (it should help the blocking and protection of Burrow). Higgins is big enough to run seem routes, too. He can run all of his routes in the seems if they wanted to do it, and then when the Defense starts to expect it and tries, double-move from the inside to the outside and there's a TD waiting for Burrow if he can sail it high enough to compensate for his inaccuracy right now so that Higgins can run under it. Chase is not the only Receiver they should be getting creative with.

I would think they might be in the market to trade for a TE...Bengals Wire mentioned Kyle Pitts as a hypothetical. I would be shocked if it happened though. ATL has said no way when Dallas was rumored to be interested.

Charlie Jones to IR so Bengals lose their punt returner. Irwin will handle punts.

Devin Harper poached from the Cowboys to help in a special teams role with ADG banged up

[WVRed]

Pitts isn't a traditional TE. He's used as somewhat of a flex WR/TE type. I suspect Brock Bowers will be used that same way.

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[Hillsdale87]

I would think they might be in the market to trade for a TE...Bengals Wire mentioned Kyle Pitts as a hypothetical. I would be shocked if it happened though. ATL has said no way when Dallas was rumored to be interested.

Charlie Jones to IR so Bengals lose their punt returner. Irwin will handle punts.

Devin Harper poached from the Cowboys to help in a special teams role with ADG banged up

Atlanta isn't utilizing Pitts well, but I'd imagine it would still take a lot to get him


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[Kingspoint]

Tua is probably a better passer than Jackson, but not nearly as good of a rusher. What the Dolphins have built is pretty explosive, but you have to wonder about the longevity of Tua. The hits he took last year are scary, and I don't get the notion that McDaniel is 100% committed to Tua.

Kurt Warner is a HOF QB who did take the Cardinals to the Super Bowl, came within inches of winning that SB. So I don't exactly see the comparison between the two. You may be right, once teams make adjustments against Miami things will change. But as of right now they are pretty damn explosive, and they have Hill and Waddle, one of the better WR combo in the league.

And, they've been doing it basically without their All-Pro LT who is getting healthy very fast.

[The Operator]

Let’s go!!!

[The Operator]

Bengals come out firing with one of the best looking drives of the year so far but it stalls out in the red zone. Mac gets us 3.


3-0 Bengals

[KoryMac5]

They had nice balance that drive...thought Zac might go on 4th down, but no hesitation to kick it.

[The Operator]

Titans answer with a FG if their own.


3-3

[Roy Tucker]

They had nice balance that drive...thought Zac might go on 4th down, but no hesitation to kick it.

IIRC, games with the Titans are low scoring. Points are at a premium.

[The Operator]

IIRC, games with the Titans are low scoring. Points are at a premium.

Appears to be heading that way again. Lots of run plays form both teams, game moving quickly.

[The Operator]

How was his arm not moving forward there?!?

[Roy Tucker]

How is that not a forward pass?

[The Operator]

How is that not a forward pass?

Total screw job if this call stands.

[KoryMac5]

Plus got Burrow up around the head...

[The Operator]

Ugh. Lots of hits delivered to Burrow already.

At least the turnover and field position got reversed.

- - - Updated - - -

Block in the back tacks 10 onto the Titans return.


Things not going super well since the opening series.

[Kingspoint]

That was blatant roughing the passer. Bengals getting screwed again.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals need to angle their punts more. They outkick the coverage and make it smack dab in the middle of the field.

[KoryMac5]

Bengals need to get back to what worked that first drive...dink and dunk them to death...

[Roy Tucker]

Tennessee is pretty good but they’d be a lot better with a good QB.

[The Operator]

D does good work but a booming punt backs us up near our own end zone.

[WVRed]

Tennessee is pretty good but they’d be a lot better with a good QB.Watch what you say because if Tannehill gets hurt then Levis will go Brett Favre on us.

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[The Operator]

Burrow getting killed back there. Ugh.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals can’t let the Titans get free shots at Burrow.

[The Operator]

Gonna need the defense to carry us again.

[The Operator]

Good lord. Got absolutely picked apart by Ryan freaking Tannehill.


TD Titans, PAt is successful.


10-3 Titans

[Roy Tucker]

Gonna need the defense to carry us again.

Not like that.

Titans OL is giving Tannehill time. Unlike Burrow.

[The Operator]

Woof. Total domination on both sides of the ball right now.

[The Operator]

Pathetic pathetic pathetic.


Runner drops the ball and still picks it up and gains 20+

- - - Updated - - -

This is heading toward an ass whipping.

[KoryMac5]

I have no words

[Roy Tucker]

Oh boy.

Bengals defense is totally discombobulated. Don’t see that happen often. Lou needs to make adjustments.

[The Operator]

This is embarrassing.

Getting absolutely dominated by the team that lost 24-3 to The Browns. By Ryan Tannehill.

- - - Updated - - -

17-3 Titans


Bengals absolutely getting steamrolled. Better make adjustments like NOW or it’s all but over.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals need to come up with an answer for the Titans blitzing.

And fix the defense.

[KoryMac5]

Going to be a long season...

[Bob Sheed]

I get that Burrow isn't 100 percent.

But the offense is really underachieving. Even by those standards.

[The Operator]

This is the most one dimensional offense I’ve ever seen.

- - - Updated - - -

Better hope the defense has a pick-6 in them.


And to make things even better the Titans start the 3rd quarter with the football.

[Bob Sheed]

Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, Burrow.

3 points.

You simply cannot blame Burrow for that.

[The Operator]

Jesus Christ

[Bob Sheed]

Defense already gassed.

[The Operator]

Chase, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, Burrow.

3 points.

You simply cannot blame Burrow for that.

This is a huge indictment on the coaching staff.

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna be 24-3 here soon.


Secondary getting destroyed.

[Roy Tucker]

Making Tannehill look like an All Pro.

[The Operator]

Making Tannehill look like an All Pro.

The Bengals historically just have this way of making very average quarterbacks look like Tom Brady.

[Playadlc]

This is a pathetic effort.

Just going to be one of those years I guess.

[The Operator]

Pathetic.

[Hillsdale87]

I don't understand this. Defense looked good last game but has been really bad in the other 3. No toughness


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[Bob Sheed]

This is a huge indictment on the coaching staff.

- - - Updated - - -

Gonna be 24-3 here soon.


Secondary getting destroyed.

Yep.

How many more weapons does Taylor need?

Because even Akili Smith to Jeff Query can put up 3 points in a half.

[RiverRat13]

Being scared to go for it on fourth down has really paid off today.

[Roy Tucker]

Man. Everything is going wrong.

[The Operator]

I don't understand this. Defense looked good last game but has been really bad in the other 3. No toughness


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The other two games I felt like they were victims of the offense putting them in terrible situations.


Today, though. They’re getting emasculated.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL the Titans are just trolling us now.


Bringing in Simmons on offense.

[The Operator]

24-3


This is the worst effort I’ve seen in a long time.

[KoryMac5]

I don't understand this. Defense looked good last game but has been really bad in the other 3. No toughness


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are always on the field...just awful comms now and finger pointing.

[RiverRat13]

There was zero chance that was a straight run with no timeouts.

[Bob Sheed]

If it's Burrow, then they need to shut him down.

But I don't think it's Burrow. It just looks like yet another week of inability to adjust to the defense taking away the big play.

Because again, even Akili Smith can put up 3 in a half.

[The Operator]

It’ll be 31-3 by about 13:00 in the 3rd quarter at this rate.

[Playadlc]

Just zero urgency from this team. None.

[Hillsdale87]

What exactly did they talk about during that timeout?!


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[Roy Tucker]

Oh man. Bengals called a timeout and still got fooled.

[The Operator]

Oh man. Bengals called a timeout and still got fooled.

They’re getting pantsed in every sense of the word.

[Bob Sheed]

This is either a Burrow problem or a Taylor problem.

Either way, something needs to be done.

[WVRed]

This is either a Burrow problem or a Taylor problem.

Either way, something needs to be done.Let's call it a Lou problem as well.

This is embarrassing.

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[oregonred]

This is either a Burrow problem or a Taylor problem.

Either way, something needs to be done.

Public floggings at noon Tuesdays on Fountain Square?

- - - Updated - - -

Failure to address TE and upgrade RB in the offseason. An above average young TE makes so much sense with Joe Burrow and helping out your OL

[The Operator]

Has a 1-3 team ever made the playoffs?

[KoryMac5]

They turned into a plodding methodical team over night...

No speed or urgency at all on offense.

[The Operator]

Awful.

[Playadlc]

Sweet penalty.

[KoryMac5]

Another dumb play

[The Operator]

I keep waiting for the Bengals to start getting the benefit of the doubt on some of these plays since we have Burrow but it seems to keep going the opposite way.

- - - Updated - - -

And another defensive penalty gives them a new set of downs.


Stick a fork in them.

[Roy Tucker]

Titans using up a lot of time.

[The Operator]

Taylor Britt seems to be hurt.

[Playadlc]

Complete domination.

[RiverRat13]

Chido is toast.

[The Operator]

Even when they bring the house they aren’t getting there and the secondary is really getting exposed.

[RiverRat13]

The Titans couldn’t get 100 yards last week against the Browns and today are just marching up and down the field.

[KoryMac5]

Higgins ruled out rib injury

[Roy Tucker]

This game is over. Bengals have no answers.

[The Operator]

The Titans couldn’t get 100 yards last week against the Browns and today are just marching up and down the field.

I think that’s what makes it even more embarrassing.


This felt like a trap game to some extent but I never thought they’d get absolutely emasculated like this. This is pathetic.

[KoryMac5]

Chido is toast.

I think he came back a bit too quick from the ACL still working back into gameshape and speed

[Playadlc]

Burrow just isn't right and the defense needs improvement.

Just get to 3-3 and go from there.

[traderumor]

Whatever type of minimizing Taylor does in the postgame like he did after the Cleveland game, this staff has too much talent to work with to EVER be playing this bad. If they tell us everything is fine and we will get back to work, they better show some adjustments to their stuff quick or they are going to have a lost season.

[The Operator]

27-3 after the Titans FG

[Playadlc]

Over 10 minute drive. Pretty much ends the game.

[The Operator]

Burrow just isn't right and the defense needs improvement.

Just get to 3-3 and go from there.

At this rate I don’t see this team beating Seattle.

2-4 after the first 6 is very possible. And that’s assuming they don’t lay an egg against Arizona, which is far from a guarantee.


Then we get SF and Buffalo. This is looking like a sub-.500 season.

[RiverRat13]

If they don’t score on this drive then Joe’s day needs to be over.

[The Operator]

Burrow still taking a beating.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals offense doesn’t seem to be in any hurry.

[Playadlc]

The roughing the passer penalty on Hill was just a killer.

[The Operator]

Bengals offense doesn’t seem to be in any hurry.

There’s been zero urgency all day long. Really bad effort.

[Playadlc]

Bengals offense doesn’t seem to be in any hurry.

They never are.

[The Operator]

Jesus Christ. Get Joe out of there.

[Playadlc]

Wow. Just embarrassing.

- - - Updated - - -

Can we please get rid of Pollock?

[The Operator]

It never seems to matter how much personnel change the Bengals try to make with patching up the line.


They’re always bad.

[Roy Tucker]

Yeah, get Joe out of there. His injury limitations are causing a one-dimensional offense and defenses have figured that out and just pillaging the Bengals.

[Playadlc]

This offense is absolutely horrible right now.

[The Operator]

Just shut Burrow down. There’s no way in hell this team makes the playoffs.

Even if they managed to beat Arizona and Seattle, they’ll be 3-5 after SF and Buffalo. Just call it a year, get your guy healthy and immediately start making personnel changes on the coaching staff.

- - - Updated - - -

Jesus. Just take the fair catch.

[KoryMac5]

Been watching the Buffalo game and the difference in the speed the Bills play at and the Bengals play out is astonishing.

[The Operator]

Been watching the Buffalo game and the difference in the speed the Bills play at and the Bengals play out is astonishing.

Love Zac as a head coach but he has to give up control of the offense. We’re absolutely wasting what could be the waning years of Burrow/Chase/Higgins/Boyd with this awful offensive strategy.

I know Burrow’s calf is a thing but even during the last two seasons, Zac’s management of the offense has been questionable at best. The Bengals badly need to bring someone in who knows how to scheme guys open and maintain some arm balance of unpredictability.

- - - Updated - - -

Burrow still being in this game is absolute malpractice.

[KoryMac5]

Look at the replay he can't drive off his calf he puts 0 weight on it throwing...

[oregonred]

I think that’s what makes it even more embarrassing.


This felt like a trap game to some extent but I never thought they’d get absolutely emasculated like this. This is pathetic.
It's the NFL. Vrabel.can coach and the Bengals ruined the last two Titan seasons in Nashville. They had this one circled.

Time for Browning next week. Let Joe heal until the bye week.

[Redsfan6272]

The team after losing tge Super bowl, came out the first 2 games last year with no urgency and no focus. Then got rolling. Then after last years loss ag KC, they don't look like they have any " we have unfinished business " with urgency to get back to the super bowl mentality. It's like the off season was more about getting Joe paid than making sure they brought the right mix in to get back to the Super Bowl. Losing zBates to Free Agency was huge.. you can see it on the defense now. They can't stop anybody from scoring.. There needs to be some leadership stepping up calling out who ever is not doing thier part in a players only meeting.. KC lost thier first game and bounced back with a better focus.. where is the Bengals focus? They better address it ir back to losing again tgis year

[oregonred]

Been watching the Buffalo game and the difference in the speed the Bills play at and the Bengals play out is astonishing.

Yet the Bengals dominated them in Buffalo 9 months ago

[Redsfan6272]

It's the NFL. Vrabel.can coach and the Bengals ruined the last two Titan seasons in Nashville. They had this one circled.

Time for Browning next week. Let Joe heal until the bye week.

I rather see AJ McCarren if Joe needs weeks to heal. He was awesome playing in the XFL for St Louis this past year

[oregonred]

I rather see AJ McCarren if Joe needs weeks to heal. He was awesome playing in the XFL for St Louis this past year

Sure. Jon Kitna, Jeff Blake, whoever :)

[Playadlc]

Burrow isn't healthy. It's 85% of the problem with this team right now.

[The Operator]

An interception. I think I’ll wet myself.

- - - Updated - - -

WHY IS JOE IN THIS GAME!!?!?


My god this is stupid.

[Redsfaithful]

As a fan you always have incomplete information, so while it's fun to have opinions and debate you're always operating with less than the coaching staff.

All that to say it's really tough to defend the coaching staff and front office for playing Burrow. I thought it was probably fine but coaches are watching him in practice every day - they have to know he can't drive the ball at all. I know the backup isn't credible, but this has been malpractice.

Also, unless they do a 180 I don't think we have to worry about losing Lou to a head coaching position anymore.

[RiverRat13]

I have no idea what they think they are accomplishing by having the starters out there.

[The Operator]

I just can’t get over the abject stupidity of Burrow still being in this game. Even if they score here. This is ridiculous.

- - - Updated - - -

I doubt any member of the Cincinnati media will dare ask a tough question but I really hope someone holds Zac’s feet to the fire for this monumentally stupid decision. They’re risking their biggest asset in garbage time for no reason.

[traderumor]

Tannehill is still out there too, is Vrabel guilty of malpractice?

[The Operator]

Another sack.


Really good that Burrow is still playing down by 24 with 6 minutes left.

- - - Updated - - -


Tannehill is still out there too, is Vrabel guilty of malpractice?

Tannehill doesn’t have a lingering injury and also didn’t just sign a $275M contract. Titans also aren’t basically already eliminated from contention.

[KoryMac5]

Tannehill is still out there too, is Vrabel guilty of malpractice?

Yes I was just wondering why the back up wasn't getting reps...

[The Operator]

And Burrow takes another giant hit on 4th down.


Wow.

[RiverRat13]

Tannehill is still out there too, is Vrabel guilty of malpractice?

Do you actually think the situations are comparable?

[traderumor]

Yes I was just wondering why the back up wasn't getting reps...

Henry just got a carry too. Tannehill still out there. Maybe you should put in an application, probably can do it online at NFL.com central hiring for head coaches.

[Roy Tucker]

Even my wife (who knows zero about football) asked why Burrow is still playing.

[The Operator]

Henry just got a carry too. Tannehill still out there. Maybe you should put in an application, probably can do it online at NFL.com central hiring for head coaches.

Again. Is Tannehill back there taking a beating from the Bengals D while dealing with an injury? No.


And even then, yes it is a dumb move for the Titans not to pull their starters.

[traderumor]

Do you actually think the situations are comparable?

yes, the Titans are relying on their QB to win games just like the Bengals are. Even worse, since he has a 24 lead late, unless he doesn't care about him getting hurt in a game where the decision is not in doubt

[traderumor]

Again. Is Tannehill back there taking a beating from the Bengals D while dealing with an injury? No.


And even then, yes it is a dumb move for the Titans not to pull their starters.

any given play is the way this game works

[The Operator]

Apparently 1-3 teams stand a 14% chance of making the playoffs.


Not loving our odds. Last year Burrow was essentially fully healthy after they shook the rust off. It just isn’t here this year.

- - - Updated - - -


any given play is the way this game works

You’re just being obtuse at this point.


Of course anyone can get hurt on any play.

[oregonred]

And Burrow takes another giant hit on 4th down.


Wow.

Moronic. The combination of Zac's stubbornness and Burrow's toughness is not a good combination.

Perfect chance to give a backup.some reps

[Roy Tucker]

Mercifully this game is over.

The Bengals are in big trouble. Really big trouble. Burrow isn’t going to get better exposing him to NFL defenses like this.

[traderumor]

Apparently 1-3 teams stand a 14% chance of making the playoffs.


Not loving our odds. Last year Burrow was essentially fully healthy after they shook the rust off. It just isn’t here this year.

- - - Updated - - -



You’re just being obtuse at this point.


Of course anyone can get hurt on any play.

Tannehill and Henry both, the keys to the Titans success played till the final whistle. Obviously, both coaches are stupid buffoons.

[oregonred]

At least we have the Steelers being humiliated by CJ Stroud and the Texans

- - - Updated - - -

Bills losing some secondary guys in this game

Also a big potential injury with Armstead going down. Tua hasn't been the same since.

War of attrition in the NFL

[oregonred]

Tannehill and Henry both, the keys to the Titans success played till the final whistle. Obviously, both coaches are stupid buffoons.

It's not at all comparable when one qb is your franchise, hobbled and the offense is 1 dimensional down 24 late

[UKFlounder]

This is the ultimate “Bengal” game - no motivation, no urgency, and still no production ftom the supposed franchise QB.

[The Operator]

It's not at all comparable when one qb is your franchise, hobbled and the offense is 1 dimensional down 24 late

He knows. He’s just being argumentative. Lol

[Bob Sheed]

I get that Burrow isn't 100 percent.

Remember when Mahommes wasn't 100 percent during the AFC Championship last season? Yep. Me too. That's what you get with Andy Reid's offense when adversity strikes, and this is what you get with Zac Taylor's offense when adversity strikes.

[The Operator]

I get that Burrow isn't 100 percent.

Remember when Mahommes wasn't 100 percent during the AFC Championship last season? Yep. Me too. That's what you get with Andy Reid's offense when adversity strikes, and this is what you get with Zac Taylor's offense when adversity strikes.
We saw the same thing during Chase’s injury last year.

If any one piece is less than 100% things get very rough.

[oregonred]

Burrow can't plant, throw accurately more than 10 yds downfield and can't move in the pocket. Add that in with Zac's simple vanilla, low creativity offensive scheme and the Bengals are by far the easiest team to game plan for in the NFL right now.

[traderumor]

He knows. He’s just being argumentative. Lol

I don't appreciate that. The point I am making, and you can disagree or not, but do not accuse me of being disingenuous and arguing to be contrarian, that is not my gig...but that the ones making the decisions are accountable for the decisions, so second guess low hanging fruit all you want, but both coaches obviously had reasons for having starters in an out of reach game. Acting like they are idiots is just arrogant.

[RedTeamGo!]

This is either a Burrow problem or a Taylor problem.

Either way, something needs to be done.

I think Burrow is playing hurt. They need to shut him down until he’s healthy.

- - - Updated - - -


At least we have the Steelers being humiliated by CJ Stroud and the Texans

- - - Updated - - -

Bills losing some secondary guys in this game

Also a big potential injury with Armstead going down. Tua hasn't been the same since.

War of attrition in the NFL

Speaking of Stroud. Looks like the Buckeyes finally have their quality NFL QB. He looks for real, for real.

[traderumor]

Right now the Ravens are the only team that has it together in the division...and they always start fast and fade.

[RedTeamGo!]

Right now the Ravens are the only team that has it together in the division...and they always start fast and fade.

Browns offense is decimated by injuries

[traderumor]

Just saw Higgins broken ribs

[oregonred]

Right now the Ravens are the only team that has it together in the division...and they always start fast and fade.
So far but luck of schedule and injuries so far a big factor...

Week 1: 3-14 Texans and Stroud's NFL debut on the road at Baltimore
Week 2: Hobbled Burrow, squeak by with a win
Week 3: Lose to backup Colts QB at home
Week 4: No Deshawn Watson or Nick Chubb
Week 5: Likely backup QB, although Steelers may actually have a better chance with Trubisky

[oregonred]

48-20 lead and the Bills sat Allen with 6 mins left. Tua was left in before that which was pretty dumb too. He took 1-2 unnecessary hits late.

[Roy Tucker]

I get what people are saying about taking out QBs.

But Tannehill could just hand off to Henry and not take unnecessary risks and just trying to run the clock down. But then Burrow is playing hurt and having to drop back and throw against a good defense that knows he has to throw and can tee off and blitz the crap out of him. And Burrow is a bet your franchise huge $$$ QB while Tannehill is a journeyman QB. But yeah, both should have been out.

[Tony Cloninger]

If they only have 1 win by the trade deadline I hope they start looking for draft picks and trade who they don’t want to or know how to sign. Of course this FO is loathe to do that as we have seen through the Mike bad years and even after Lewis left. He loves those meaningless late season wins for morale.

Even Paul did that in 1978 when they won 3 in a row to end season at 4-12. Instead of hiring Forrest in 1979 he kept Homer Rice an extra year just because of those 3 late season wins.

[KoryMac5]

Henry just got a carry too. Tannehill still out there. Maybe you should put in an application, probably can do it online at NFL.com central hiring for head coaches.

Damn dude all I did was wonder why Levis wasn't getting reps in a blowout no need to be an ass about it

[KoryMac5]

Burrow can't plant, throw accurately more than 10 yds downfield and can't move in the pocket. Add that in with Zac's simple vanilla, low creativity offensive scheme and the Bengals are by far the easiest team to game plan for in the NFL right now.

Yep averaging 12.6 pts per game which is god awful..

Chase is starting to boil over a bit if you listen to his comments after the game.

[RiverRat13]

We saw the same thing during Chase’s injury last year.

If any one piece is less than 100% things get very rough.

The first game without Chase was rough but they then put up 42 and 37 points the following two weeks without him.

[Tony Cloninger]

Bringing an OL coach who doesn’t deal in cliches about ketchup bottle pounding and glass eating would be nice.

OL has to be bottom 10. TE. Bottom 5. LB ok but not great. DL is not playing up to potential. Burrow being hurt doesn’t change the overrated roster.

Article that I can’t read on Cincinnati.com has Reds and Bengals have one thing in common. They didn’t go all in. Reds sure they weren’t expecting anything so they didn’t try in the off season and then didn’t want to probably trade CES or Marte to get more pitching. You know they were asking for those.

Bengals could have upgraded the OL better. But we’re so fixed on Burrow contract. Maybe to get more help so they can run the ball if they have to. Better TE.

[KoryMac5]

Bringing an OL coach who doesn’t deal in cliches about ketchup bottle pounding and glass eating would be nice.

OL has to be bottom 10. TE. Bottom 5. LB ok but not great. DL is not playing up to potential. Burrow being hurt doesn’t change the overrated roster.

Article that I can’t read on Cincinnati.com has Reds and Bengals have one thing in common. They didn’t go all in. Reds sure they weren’t expecting anything so they didn’t try in the off season and then didn’t want to probably trade CES or Marte to get more pitching. You know they were asking for those.

Bengals could have upgraded the OL better. But we’re so fixed on Burrow contract. Maybe to get more help so they can run the ball if they have to. Better TE.

They signed Kappa, Karas, and Brown to big contracts...and convinced Jonah to make the switch to RT. So they have done work on the line...however the common denominator is Pollack and I am wondering if his scheme doesn't fit the current personnel.

[WVRed]

Bringing an OL coach who doesn’t deal in cliches about ketchup bottle pounding and glass eating would be nice.

OL has to be bottom 10. TE. Bottom 5. LB ok but not great. DL is not playing up to potential. Burrow being hurt doesn’t change the overrated roster.

Article that I can’t read on Cincinnati.com has Reds and Bengals have one thing in common. They didn’t go all in. Reds sure they weren’t expecting anything so they didn’t try in the off season and then didn’t want to probably trade CES or Marte to get more pitching. You know they were asking for those.

Bengals could have upgraded the OL better. But we’re so fixed on Burrow contract. Maybe to get more help so they can run the ball if they have to. Better TE.I don't see how anyone can judge anything as long as Burrow is playing injured.

Teams are gameplanning against his limitations. Once they stop him, the defense is constantly living on the field as teams are going to control time of possession. They are going to be schemed against and ultimately worn down.

Burrow is the engine that makes this thing go. With him being hurt it's essentially a free pass for the rest of the team for criticism.

Outside of TE and RB I kinda wish a rookie QB would have been taken late to where we had someone better than Jake Browning to run out.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[oregonred]

Absolutely. No OL is going to hold up with a hobbled, immobile qb that can't throw downfield. Especially mixed in with an offensive scheme with zero creativity, motion, misdirection and change of pace to keep edge DL, safeties and OLBs honest.

[Tony Cloninger]

I don't see how anyone can judge anything as long as Burrow is playing injured.

Teams are gameplanning against his limitations. Once they stop him, the defense is constantly living on the field as teams are going to control time of possession. They are going to be schemed against and ultimately worn down.

Burrow is the engine that makes this thing go. With him being hurt it's essentially a free pass for the rest of the team for criticism.

Outside of TE and RB I kinda wish a rookie QB would have been taken late to where we had someone better than Jake Browning to run out.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk


Of course I do not discount the injury at all. Yet other teams are able to and have been able to win or be better than this by using back up QB. And by running the ball. Playing better defense. Like they did against the Rams. The Steelers were able to do that and they have no offense gurus. This was when Ben was out. I forget who the backup was a few years ago. I don’t think it was Mason Rudolph either.

Load up and run if you have to at this point. But you can’t with this underachieving OL. And if it’s the scheme of OL coach. Get rid of him.

Been watching this team so long I’m trying to figure out other seasons like this.

2008 when Palmer ended up having a bad arm and Fitzpatrick ended up playing a lot. That’s what this feels like. 1983 when Anderson went down and Turk Schonert had to play. They ended up going more running than the short passing game that Infante had implemented.

[WVRed]

You can't really compare it to any other Bengals season because Burrow is playing when in all honesty he shouldn't.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

[traderumor]

Damn dude all I did was wonder why Levis wasn't getting reps in a blowout no need to be an ass about it

you said Vrabel was committing malpractice, my response was in relation to that response

[Tony Cloninger]

Absolutely. No OL is going to hold up with a hobbled, immobile qb that can't throw downfield. Especially mixed in with an offensive scheme with zero creativity, motion, misdirection and change of pace to keep edge DL, safeties and OLBs honest.

Well the 2nd part is on the coaches. And Taylor is losing my faith by not having an OC come in to scheme better along with a better OL coach.

Follow up with the FO still having traits of being complacent when they have success. The 2015 draft debacle and inability to sign FA and expecting the same core to do something when they couldn’t even win a playoff game. This core was way more successful and they will stubbornly stick to the plan.

You know how hard it is to just score 3 points in a game in this modern NFL. You have to be truly terrible to do this.

[KoryMac5]

you said Vrabel was committing malpractice, my response was in relation to that response

Wasn't my post...

Should we roll back the tape..

Redsfaithful talked about malpractice at post #175...

My post was wondering why the backup wasn't getting any reps...never mentioned malpractice.

[traderumor]

Yes I was just wondering why the back up wasn't getting reps...

Challenge flag thrown: You said this to my question "Is Vrabel guilty of malpractice?"

[KoryMac5]

Challenge flag thrown: You said this to my question "Is Vrabel guilty of malpractice?"

The malpractice statement wasn't mine though...

Not sure why you attributed it to me and why your still walking down this path of giving me ownership of it.

All I did was wonder why Tenn's backups (Levis or Willis) were not getting reps in a 27-3 game...I think it's a fair question.

[traderumor]

I asked that question about malpractice. I have no idea why you are so confused about this, but moving on.

[Kingspoint]

Katie Brown, Mike Brown and whoever else is in charge have a major issue involving the guy they just gave a quarter of a billion dollars to, and that issue is Zac Taylor. If they can't convince him to immediately (Monday) let go of all responsibilities for the Offense that an Offensive Coordinator should be in charge of and focus on the job of Head Coach, then there needs to be a more serious conversation about his ability to be the Head Coach. Fire him. Promote Lou Anarumo to be the new Head Coach and then let Lou hire a Defensive Coordinator and an Offensive Coordinator next season, while someone else takes over as Offensive Coordinator this season.

Pollack's job needs to be looked at seriously, too. The results have been bad ever since he's been here.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

At a little past midnight on October 2nd, this is how I'm feeling. It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if both Zac Taylor and David Bell were relieved of their respective duties as soon as the sun comes up in the morning. I'd be perfectly fine if I never had to look at their mugs ever again. I'm sure they are fine gentlemen and great "culture" guys but their decision-making when it comes to coaching ball is off the charts bad. Burrow being injured has really exposed Zac's ineptness.

[Kingspoint]

I had four playoff wins by the Bengals on my DVR. I deleted them all this evening. I needed the space and Zac Taylor is so upsetting (believing he can be an Offensive Coordinator), that, well....he just wasn't sponge-worthy anymore.

[Kingspoint]

I was a real advocate of Pollack when he was drafted out of Arizona State (I'm pretty sure that's where he went). I remember he had a super high Wonderlic Score, something like 48 (out of 50), and I was super upset that the Bengals let the Colts take him. He should have been their Center, but he kept getting injured and settled at playing Guard most of the time for the Colts. He never ever came close to reaching his potential, both because of injuries, and what I had to admit to myself, was a clearly inability to play alongside the Offensive Line.

It occurs to me now that Pollack is a guy who talks a good game around his "less intelligent" co-workers and bosses, but when it comes down to it, he doesn't get the job done. No Offensive Lineman should ever be anything other than above-average to Pro Bowl caliber when ti comes to blocking for Peyton Manning, who was an Einstein as a QB while also getting rid of the football better than anyone other than Brady. He also had tremendous pocket presence making the job of a lineman very easy compared to all other QB's.

He's talked his way into being an Offensive Line Coach for the Cowboys, a team that gave him almost all high draft picks to work with. Failure was not an option, yet he never advanced above Offensive Line Coach, and in fact, found work in a lateral move elsewhere. Here for one year, then gone. Back again after Zac Taylor blamed his Offensive woes on his O-Line Coach. I fell for the scam, too. I'm also late to the party about Pollack. It's a whole different viewpoint seeing things from a television screen than seeing the Offensive Line development in person.

I really appreciate everything Ownership has done the last several years. Yes, they screwed up badly not addressing the backup QB position and the RB position (especially considering the RB position is so cheap right now) and the Starting TE position. But, they got 90% of everything else right. That's a great record for Ownership.

The time for patience with Zac Taylor is over. This needs to be addressed Monday Morning. He almost destroyed the franchise leaving Burrow in a meaningless game and playing Burrow in the first place the last four weeks. It's his fault he hasn't developed someone to back him up or is incapable of coming up with another way of playing Offense without Burrow. To throw everything on Burrow's shoulders and then to throw everyone under the bus at halftime last week screams incompetency.

[KoryMac5]

I don't see anything happening 4 games in...it took seasons to get Jim Turner out and he was awful.

[RiverRat13]

The Bengals have the sixth most expensive offensive line in the league. The problem is the inability to draft/develop their own guys. The line would be adequate with a mobile Burrow. The sack that Orlando Brown gave up yesterday is a good example as a healthy Joe would have simply stepped up in the pocket and made the throw before the rusher got home. But with this version of Burrow the line is just not good enough.

Joe Goodberry has documented this well - the Bengals have to quit taking unathletic linemen and those who were too injured to test. Taking "glass eater" Volson over an athlete like Zach Tom is the latest example.

[bucksfan2]

The Bengals have the sixth most expensive offensive line in the league. The problem is the inability to draft/develop their own guys. The line would be adequate with a mobile Burrow. The sack that Orlando Brown gave up yesterday is a good example as a healthy Joe would have simply stepped up in the pocket and made the throw before the rusher got home. But with this version of Burrow the line is just not good enough.

Joe Goodberry has documented this well - the Bengals have to quit taking unathletic linemen and those who were too injured to test. Taking "glass eater" Volson over an athlete like Zach Tom is the latest example.

I don't subscribe to Goodberry, but I thought me made a point that there were some positive changes to the offensive play calling, its just waiting on Burrow to get heatlhy.

I think Burrow is going to play as long as there is no additional risk of long term injury. That said, its difficult when he can't drive off his plant leg or scramble. While Joe is no Lamar Jackson, the guy makes quite a few plays with his feet, and is an excellent scrambler in the pocket.

I know Tee wanted a big contract this off season, but the guy had a tough start to the season, and now will miss time. I have a feeling unless things change drastically down the stretch, he won't be in line for anywhere near the contract he wants.

[Oxilon]

The last couple of seasons, win or loss, the Bengals have been entertaining to watch. This isn't the case this year...like, they aren't even watchable. I know the NFL is a parity driven league but it's kind of amazing to go from the first pick in the draft, to the Superbowl and Conference Championships, and back to the first overall pick in a matter of 4 years.

[Bob Sheed]

I was a real advocate of Pollack when he was drafted out of Arizona State (I'm pretty sure that's where he went). I remember he had a super high Wonderlic Score, something like 48 (out of 50), and I was super upset that the Bengals let the Colts take him. He should have been their Center, but he kept getting injured and settled at playing Guard most of the time for the Colts. He never ever came close to reaching his potential, both because of injuries, and what I had to admit to myself, was a clearly inability to play alongside the Offensive Line.

It occurs to me now that Pollack is a guy who talks a good game around his "less intelligent" co-workers and bosses, but when it comes down to it, he doesn't get the job done. No Offensive Lineman should ever be anything other than above-average to Pro Bowl caliber when ti comes to blocking for Peyton Manning, who was an Einstein as a QB while also getting rid of the football better than anyone other than Brady. He also had tremendous pocket presence making the job of a lineman very easy compared to all other QB's.

He's talked his way into being an Offensive Line Coach for the Cowboys, a team that gave him almost all high draft picks to work with. Failure was not an option, yet he never advanced above Offensive Line Coach, and in fact, found work in a lateral move elsewhere. Here for one year, then gone. Back again after Zac Taylor blamed his Offensive woes on his O-Line Coach. I fell for the scam, too. I'm also late to the party about Pollack. It's a whole different viewpoint seeing things from a television screen than seeing the Offensive Line development in person.

I really appreciate everything Ownership has done the last several years. Yes, they screwed up badly not addressing the backup QB position and the RB position (especially considering the RB position is so cheap right now) and the Starting TE position. But, they got 90% of everything else right. That's a great record for Ownership.

The time for patience with Zac Taylor is over. This needs to be addressed Monday Morning. He almost destroyed the franchise leaving Burrow in a meaningless game and playing Burrow in the first place the last four weeks. It's his fault he hasn't developed someone to back him up or is incapable of coming up with another way of playing Offense without Burrow. To throw everything on Burrow's shoulders and then to throw everyone under the bus at halftime last week screams incompetency.


I agree with most of this but there's a bit of revisionist history here.

Here's a name for you: Jim Turner. If you recall, he was the offensive line coach who replaced Pollack, and who was subsequently replaced by Pollack. He's good pals with Zac Taylor. And whatever you want to say about Pollack as a coach, or even as a person, Turner was worse. Much, much worse.

And anyway, I'm not sure Pollack is the issue. The main issue here, in my opinion, is the requirement from Burrow, that everything be out of the shotgun formation. This requirement precedes any injury. It's just what he prefers.

Shotgun Formation:
1. Is harder to pass block
2. Is harder to run, with greater possibility to be tackled behind the line
3. Becomes one-dimensional if the QB can't roll out from it

To my eyes, this is why the Bengals offense is where it is right now. Not Frank Pollack.

[Bob Sheed]

And by the way, where's Jim Turner coaching now?

The USFL.

After being fired from Texas State for... drumroll? ...

Being a terrible person again.


Texas State: Offensive line coach Jim Turner is no longer on staff at Texas State, according to The Austin American-Statesman. He was fired for “doing or saying something controversial,” according to the report. Tight ends coach Brian Hamilton has moved to coach the offensive line and graduate assistant Boone Feldt has been promoted to tight ends coach.

[traderumor]

I am going to apply Occam's razor. Monday night hangover, not first time that has happened to a team, good or bad. Burrow is not healthy and unable to do the things that are required that make the offense hum. Jesse Bates was glue on D and no new glue has emerged. Oline coach is not a good fit. Unprovable perhaps, but everyone didn't forget how to coach and play the game overnite.

A shakeup for O side in the offseason if this continues to go south after Burrow recovers fully.

[Sea Ray]

I wish Zac would say something like Tomlin did yesterday when he said something like "that was a poor product we put on the field. Changes are coming"

I bet Joe is so jealous watching the space Mahomes enjoyed last night. He had all kinds of personal space to scan the field and wiggle around for a few yards when necessary

Once again, it's the O-line that's the biggest problem

[traderumor]

I wish Zac would say something like Tomlin did yesterday when he said something like "that was a poor product we put on the field. Changes are coming"

I bet Joe is so jealous watching the space Mahomes enjoyed last night. He had all kinds of personal space to scan the field and wiggle around for a few yards when necessary

Once again, it's the O-line that's the biggest problem

The game I was watching Mahomes had a lot of pressure coming up the middle and was forcing him to make some really bad throws. He was running for his life quite a bit. The Jets bailed him out and left a 25 yard cushion for him on one play and the refs bailed him out on a bad pick with another infamous flag. And his Oline was holding on several plays negating gains.

[Hillsdale87]

We saw the same thing during Chase’s injury last year.

If any one piece is less than 100% things get very rough.

The Bengals were awful on Monday night against the Browns, and then went 3-1, scoring 42 against Carolina, 37 against Pitt, and then 20 against a good Titans D. They recovered well without Chase.

Burrow's injury seems much more immobilizing than Mahomes' ankle. Mahomes was hobbled, but he was still making incredible plays. Burrow can't even move. I don't think they're fair comps. Burrow needs to sit. Browning is not good, but at least they can run the full offense with him and give teams different looks.


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[Bob Sheed]

I'd rather see McCarron. The only Browning I care to see throw the ball, is no longer with us.

[Hillsdale87]

I'd rather see McCarron. The only Browning I care to see throw the ball, is no longer with us.

Either one. Just try to get to 2-4 and get Burrow back after the bye


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[KoryMac5]

I always look to your leaders in times of trouble:

Burrow: "We weren't really able to do anything" "There is a lot to get fixed"...

Reader: “It’s a will thing,” Reader said. “You have to want to do it. Sometimes guys don’t want to do it. You have bad technique, and that’s a product of you not wanting to do it that play. That’s OK, but you’ve got to realize against these types of teams that they’re going to run the ball, and that’s what we’ve got to do. We all have to tackle. We all have to buy in, and we all have to do it. It’s a will thing. It has to be a team effort; all 11 guys have to get to the ball, and all of us have to want to tackle.”

Dehner pointed out teams are on pace to blitz Burrow 47 times more than last season...they know he is a wounded animal back there I would expect more of the same against AZ.

I get Burrow has pride but at some point the coaching staff has to weigh this out and protect Joe from himself.

[bucksfan2]

I wish Zac would say something like Tomlin did yesterday when he said something like "that was a poor product we put on the field. Changes are coming"

I bet Joe is so jealous watching the space Mahomes enjoyed last night. He had all kinds of personal space to scan the field and wiggle around for a few yards when necessary

Once again, it's the O-line that's the biggest problem

This is lip service at its finest. Its no secret that the entire Steelers fan base hates Matt Canada. Tomlin has stuck with him even as their offense has gotten worse.

[Sea Ray]

The game I was watching Mahomes had a lot of pressure coming up the middle and was forcing him to make some really bad throws. He was running for his life quite a bit. The Jets bailed him out and left a 25 yard cushion for him on one play and the refs bailed him out on a bad pick with another infamous flag. And his Oline was holding on several plays negating gains.

You must not have seen the 1st half

[traderumor]

You must not have seen the 1st half

watched the whole game, as usual, Chiefs come out guns blazing, put up early points to build a lead, then the offense disappears. Remember the two SB season matchups? Same script.

[Redsfaithful]

And by the way, where's Jim Turner coaching now?

The USFL.

After being fired from Texas State for... drumroll? ...

Being a terrible person again.

Jim Turner has always been in the back of my mind with Taylor. Just a giant, giant red flag.

My hope has been that he would grow into the job and advance his decision making over time, but it doesn't seem like that's happened.

I said last year that Bengals fans have to relax because with a quarterback like Joe Burrow it's literally always possible that they'll run off 10 wins in a row. Until they get their 7th or 8th loss they're alive, but that only applies if he's healthy. This year, obviously he's not.

If they could win the next two, hit the bye, lose to the 49ers, they'd be 3-4 and alive-ish, but I really can't imagine them beating the Cardinals and Seahawks right now.

Have to admit I'm disappointed after looking forward to this season all year. But that's the NFL, your QB goes down and it usually all falls apart.

[Sea Ray]

I grant you that the Jets did pressure him at times but there were also times in both halves where there was no one near him. I will add that I saw a lot of holding that wasn't called too...

[oregonred]

The video of the 5-10 second non holding call by the LT on the 3rd and 22 Mahomes run is an all-timer.

[Bob Sheed]

The smartest thing Burrow could do, is get mixed in with as many advertising dollars as possible. Because at that point, advertisers become like the NFL equivalent of lobbyists.

We, as fans, never get to see the fire, but we sure as hell can see the smoke. Pat Mahommes gets hooked up by the referees like he just gave them all the "discount double check rate". INTs turn into phantom defensive holding penalties. Offensive holding calls become no-calls. His linemen aren't even required to line up legally. No problem.

Burrow needs to get healthy, then start in on the Subway-type commercials, and branch off from there, nationally, in as many different ways as possible.

I was watching the Chattanooga feed for the Bengals game yesterday and saw Burrow's Kroger commercial. It's a start. Wayyyy more of that.

[oregonred]

True. I saw Burrow on a Bose commercial last week

[Sea Ray]

The video of the 5-10 second non holding call by the LT on the 3rd and 22 Mahomes run is an all-timer.

Bingo. Instead they called a marginal holding on Sauce Gardner

[Kingspoint]

The Bengals have the sixth most expensive offensive line in the league. The problem is the inability to draft/develop their own guys. The line would be adequate with a mobile Burrow. The sack that Orlando Brown gave up yesterday is a good example as a healthy Joe would have simply stepped up in the pocket and made the throw before the rusher got home. But with this version of Burrow the line is just not good enough.

Joe Goodberry has documented this well - the Bengals have to quit taking unathletic linemen and those who were too injured to test. Taking "glass eater" Volson over an athlete like Zach Tom is the latest example.

The RT that replaced Orlando Brown in Kansas City has already committed 10 penalties...in just four games.

[Kingspoint]

This is lip service at its finest. Its no secret that the entire Steelers fan base hates Matt Canada. Tomlin has stuck with him even as their offense has gotten worse.

It's difficult to decide which team has worse play-calling...the Steelers or the Bengals. They are equally horrific, and it has absolutely nothing to do with Burrow's health. A healthy Burrow would only bail out the bad play-calling, but it was always there. It's not "this year". It hasn't been good any year under Zac Taylor. It's better than when it was under Marvin's regime, even though Marvin didn't call the plays, he influenced it's tone. I'm afraid Zac would do the same thing if he gave up the play-calling, but it would still be a heck of a lot better than him making the play-calls specifically.