2023 Cincinnati Bengals Part IV: Do or Die

[WVRed]

Andrews hurt and Ravens are marching down the field.

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[The Operator]

TD Ravens.

Zero resistance from the defense on their opening drive.

- - - Updated - - -

PAT is good


7-0 Ravens

[Roy Tucker]

That didn’t take long.

[The Operator]

Lucky that throw out to Chase wasn’t a pick 6.

[KoryMac5]

Run the ball Taylor...

[KoryMac5]

Yeah Andrews aint coming back...

[The Operator]

Drive stalls out.

Ugh.

- - - Updated - - -

Mac gets points


7-3 Ravens


Can the defense get a stop?

[KoryMac5]

Drive stalls out.

Ugh.

Lets run back to back wide receiver screens after Mixon picks up good yds...

[Hillsdale87]

Lets run back to back wide receiver screens after Mixon picks up good yds...

These are on Burrow. He's pulling the ball on RPOs. He needs to start handing off more on those.


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[The Operator]

Lets run back to back wide receiver screens after Mixon picks up good yds...

Chase is certainly our best weapon but they occasionally try to force it to him. Can’t do that.

[The Operator]

Sack!!! 3 & out!!

Trey having a night already!

- - - Updated - - -

Bengals start near mid field.


How bout a TD this time?

[KoryMac5]

Hendrickson and Reader probably my all time FA signings...

[Roy Tucker]

Hendrickson came to play.

Every time I hear the name Charlie Jones, I think of the old NBC announcer.

[The Operator]

Jesus Christ.

Second timeout burned. They had no idea what formation they were even running.

[WVRed]

Second timeout already.

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[The Operator]

Offense looks BAD.

[Hillsdale87]

OL needs to man up. They're getting embarrassed again


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[The Operator]

OL needs to man up. They're getting embarrassed again


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They’ve invested so much money in this line. It’s insane.

[Roy Tucker]

Offense is massively confused. And this sure as hell is a defense you don’t want to be that way with.

[KoryMac5]

Have not seen Burrow this frustrated...

[The Operator]

Another 3 & out


Is Lamar hurt?

[WVRed]

Jackson hurt now. Ravens dropping like flies.

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[Roy Tucker]

Hendrickson gets tripped with no call.

Jackson is down.

[The Operator]

Bengals start near midfield again thanks to a penalty on the kick return.


Would be nice to see the offense show a pulse this time.

[WVRed]

Boyd with another drop but Mixon gets the first down.

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[WVRed]

Huntley warming up. Chase first down.

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[The Operator]

Another sack. Jeez.

[KoryMac5]

They need to upgrade LG

[The Operator]

Welp. The sack killed that drive.

Deep ball to Chase overthrown, then a check down nowhere close on 3rd & 17.

[Hillsdale87]

Bad quarter for Burrow. He's been a bit off on a number of throws.


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[Roy Tucker]

Volson continues to allow inside pressure.

[The Operator]

Is it just me or is 2nd & 17 a really dumb time for a deep ball? Go for a higher % play there.

[The Operator]

53 yard field goal no good.

Ravens will have nice starting field position.

[Roy Tucker]

Bogus PI.

[The Operator]

Defense rallies from a DPI to force a punt.


Bengals start at the 18.


Hopefully the offense doesn’t continue looking like they’ve never met each other.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals D looking much better after the initial TD drive.

[KoryMac5]

Lou dialing it up..esp with Jackson on a bum ankle now.

[Roy Tucker]

Like seeing Mixon run north south.

[The Operator]

Delay of game.


Absolutely ridiculous.

[The Operator]

Mixon!!!

That was a drive!

[Roy Tucker]

Mixon having a really good night.

[The Operator]

PAT is good


10-7 Bengals

[WVRed]

10-7.

Ugh, Burrow looks hurt.

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[Oxilon]

Well that grimace didn’t look good

[KoryMac5]

Thats not good remember Burrow had a brace on that arm earlier today.

[The Operator]

And now Burrow may be hurt.


Ugh. I can’t handle this.

[The Operator]

Burrow’s done.


We’re screwed. That’s the season if he’s out for any time at all.


He tried to throw the ball, dropped it and shook his head. We’re absolutely screwed.

- - - Updated - - -

That almost looks like an elbow injury.

[Roy Tucker]

Oh crap. Burrow leaving the field.

[pedro]

Not good. Not good at all.


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[Roy Tucker]

Oh man. I didn’t see that coming.

[Redsfan6272]

need to get AJ McCarren promoted for next week if Burrow cant go

[The Operator]

Welp. That’s the game.

I think the players all know it’s over.

[KoryMac5]

Welp...great play by Pratt not so much for Chido

[The Operator]

Only the Bengals could tip a pass, all think the play is over and then it goes for a TD.


14-10 Ravens

[pedro]

Not getting the breaks


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[Roy Tucker]

If it weren’t for bad luck, they’d have no luck at all.

[KoryMac5]

Browning can move a bit...

[The Operator]

That’s a catch, he had control, but they’ll take it away. Because refs.

[The Operator]

Of course.

[KoryMac5]

Cmon Chido

[The Operator]

Another late flag.

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And now BJ Hill is hurt. Non-contact.

The hits keep coming.

[Oxilon]

Thursday night games are awful.

[Roy Tucker]

Some ticky tack PI calls tonight.

[The Operator]

Some ticky tack PI calls tonight.

More than once I swear they’ve been goaded into throwing flags by the Ravens sideline.

[Roy Tucker]

Flag fest tonight.

[Playadlc]

What a catastrophic quarter.

Burrow may be out a while.

[The Operator]

Jesus Christ

An entire drive supported by flags

[KoryMac5]

Flag fest now...nothing there this is crap

[The Operator]

In what UNIVERSE is that DPI?!?!?

[RiverRat13]

LOL at that DPI call.

[The Operator]

NFL refs don’t even deserve minimum wage.


Absolute garbage.

[Roy Tucker]

What the hell?

[pedro]

That was a terrible penalty


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[WVRed]

TD Ravens

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[KoryMac5]

That's all she wrote...

[The Operator]

Ravens 14, Bengals 10, Refs 7

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We’re screwed either way if Burrow is really out, but that is such garbage.

The referees MADE that drive for Baltimore.

[Roy Tucker]

What’s the spread? I’d watch the calls vs the spread.

[The Operator]

The NFL absolutely has to come up with a way to make penalties reviewable.

That’s just garbage. Absolute garbage.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

The NFL is a farce. Games are so influenced by the league. I'm losing interest. I have only watched Bengals games the last three seasons.

[The Operator]

What’s the spread? I’d watch the calls vs the spread.

Yea, you’re not kidding. It is funny how the “margin of victory” has tightened up so much over the years as the NFL has embraced gambling.

[Redsfan6272]

that wasnt pass interference... what a joke

[Ky Fried Redleg]

The NFL absolutely has to come up with a way to make penalties reviewable.

That’s just garbage. Absolute garbage.

That will never happen. It's one of the ways they influence outcomes.

[Kingspoint]

They’ve invested so much money in this line. It’s insane.

Not that much.

[The Operator]

That will never happen. It's one of the ways they influence outcomes.

Yep.


Anybody who doesn’t see it, just doesn’t want to see it.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Yea, you’re not kidding. It is funny how the “margin of victory” has tightened up so much over the years as the NFL has embraced gambling.

It's not even a question anymore that the league influences games.

[Reds Freak]

The NFL absolutely has to come up with a way to make penalties reviewable.

That’s just garbage. Absolute garbage.

I don't know. I hate reviews for the most part, games would last five hours. I'd vote for getting refs who don't feel like they need to throw a flag on every play.

[Roy Tucker]

The NFL is a farce. Games are so influenced by the league. I'm losing interest. I have only watched Bengals games the last three seasons.

And the announcers just gloss it over. But they are in on the golden goose so I’d expect that.

[RiverRat13]

Joe Burrow is my favorite player the Bengals have ever had so it pains me to say this, but his durability is officially an issue. His injuries have been somewhat freaky, but the list is still extensive for such a short career. The team has to have a viable backup going forward, which will take resources from other areas of the team, but it is a necessity at this point.

[The Operator]

Joe Burrow is my favorite player the Bengals have ever had so it pains me to say this, but his durability is officially an issue. His injuries have been somewhat freaky, but the list is still extensive for such a short career. The team has to have a viable backup going forward, which will take resources from other areas of the team, but it is a necessity at this point.

I’d give almost anything to have a Gardner Minshew or even a Josh Dobbs or Jacoby Brissett on this roster.

[RiverRat13]

If this starts to get out of hand, please take Ja'marr out.

[The Operator]

Burrow not coming back.


Unless Browning is about to go all Brock Purdy, I’d say we’re done.

[Reds Freak]

Joe Burrow is my favorite player the Bengals have ever had so it pains me to say this, but his durability is officially an issue. His injuries have been somewhat freaky, but the list is still extensive for such a short career. The team has to have a viable backup going forward, which will take resources from other areas of the team, but it is a necessity at this point.

Not sure I agree there. He's played every game the last three seasons except for the last game in 2021 when they rested starters.

[KoryMac5]

Give it to Mixon 40 times tonight

[Kingspoint]

I’d give almost anything to have a Gardner Minshew or even a Josh Dobbs or Jacoby Brissett on this roster.

Sounds so familiar to last Winter when everyone screamed for the REDS to get a #1 or #2 Starting Pitcher because it was when, not if, all of the young and inexperienced Starters would end up missing time.

When your Championship Window is as wide open as the Bengals' is right now, you don't leave it to chance whether or not your Quarterback survives a 21-game season (17 plus playoffs, plus any preseason time as it continues to prove that Burrow needs the preseason games to get ramped up for his first live action in games that count). Having a QB who is a complete dud as a backup is malpractice when the expectations are Super Bowl or bust.

[The Operator]

And that’s NOT pass interference?

Okay.

[Roy Tucker]

And how was that not PI on the ball to Washington?

[The Operator]

This team has to lead the league in delay of game penalties and/or timeouts burned to avoid them.

[Reds Freak]

Ban Thursday Night Football.

[Roy Tucker]

Ban Thursday Night Football.

I know the league makes a lot of coin on Thursday night football, but losing a franchise player has to factor in.

[The Operator]

Ban Thursday Night Football.

I’ve thought for a long time that if they insist on Thursday night games, the teams playing on Thursday should both be coming off their bye week.


Asking NFL teams to play on 3 days rest is murder.

[RiverRat13]

The defense is garbage.

[The Operator]

Taylor Britt hurt too? My internet is being garbage.

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The defense is garbage.

Very little pressure, and wide open receiver after wide open receiver.

[Roy Tucker]

Bengals look pretty limp.

Good news is I’m reading a really good book. It’s about to get opened.

[Playadlc]

Way too passive defensively.

[Reds Freak]

I’ve thought for a long time that if they insist on Thursday night games, the teams playing on Thursday should both be coming off their bye week.


Asking NFL teams to play on 3 days rest is murder.

No doubt.

[Redsfan6272]

defense looks awful starting the 2nd half. Playing like they are 0-8 on the season, no step it up with Burrow out mentality!!!

[The Operator]

They hold it to a field goal.

24-13 Ravens

[Kingspoint]

I’ve thought for a long time that if they insist on Thursday night games, the teams playing on Thursday should both be coming off their bye week.


Asking NFL teams to play on 3 days rest is murder.

If the NFLPA wasn't such a crappy organization, they'd refuse to play the games.

[The Operator]

If the NFLPA wasn't such a crappy organization, they'd refuse to play the games.

It’s just murder. Especially with the 17th game.


It’s a wonder there aren’t even MORE injuries.

[The Operator]

Nothing doing on that series, followed by a terrible punt.

Ravens start at basically mid field.

[Kingspoint]

I didn't know our Punter's name was Baskin Robbins.

[The Operator]

Here comes the flood gates.

[Kingspoint]

Maybe Anarumo will be here next season.

[Kingspoint]

Two score game. Still in it.

Need a score followed by a pick and a another score.

[The Operator]

These drone operators need a nice punch in the face.

[Roy Tucker]

League needs anti-drone weapons. I think that’s a great idea in a full stadium.

[Cyclone792]

In a span of not much more than 100 hours - from Sunday afternoon to this evening - the Bengals have gone from "primed to make another run" to the season may be just about over.

[Kingspoint]

You have the entire quarter timeout to think about what to do on 2nd-and-10 needing 14 points to tie the game and you come up with a pass at the line of scrimmage?

I swear that Zac Taylor is worthless without a Top-3 Quarterback to make his sub-average abilities disappear because they shine very brightly without a healthy Burrow in charge.

[The Operator]

In a span of not much more than 100 hours - from Sunday afternoon to this evening - the Bengals have gone from "primed to make another run" to the season may be just about over.

Can’t start the season 0-2 every freaking year. It just leaves no room for error whatsoever.


Love Zac as a head coach but hate his play calling, and his ability to get them prepped for the season needs to improve a lot.

[Kingspoint]

Back-to-back 38-yard punts by Baskin-Robbins.

[RiverRat13]

Running zone reads with your oft-injured QB in a game you have no chance of losing seems pretty dumb.

[Kingspoint]

That beep you heard?

The Turkey's done, or what's left of the Bengals' season.

[The Operator]

Back-to-back 38-yard punts by Baskin-Robbins.

He’s been pretty bad all year. Not sure how he’s any better than Chrisman and they wasted a freaking draft pick on him.

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Bengals force a punt.

[Cyclone792]

Can’t start the season 0-2 every freaking year. It just leaves no room for error whatsoever.

Love Zac as a head coach but hate his play calling, and his ability to get them prepped for the season needs to improve a lot.

Fully agree. I've griped about the slow starts to friends. Even with last year's run to end the year, the slow start ultimately put us on the road at Arrowhead in the playoffs.

Barring a miracle comeback tonight, this team is looking at the possibility of needing to finish 6-1 in order to make the playoffs as I'm not sure 10-7 would get them in. If Burrow misses time - or is ineffective due to injury - that's not gonna happen.

[Kingspoint]

Another pass at the Line of Scrimmage.

Can't you get somebody open just 7 yards down the field. That's not asking too much.

[KronoRed]

The only thing Jake Browning's the answer for is how to improve your draft spot.

[Kingspoint]

Browning is crap. Lack of foresight that Burrow isn't going to get hurt at some point, especially with him hurt all of Training Camp.

Just bone-headed Management.

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Miracle!

A Net-45 on a Punt.

[Playadlc]

Browning is horrible.

[Kingspoint]

If it's Brown, flush it Down.

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Get all of the injured players off the field at this point, Offense and Defense.

What's the point of leaving them out there?

[The Operator]

Back to back defensive TD’s would be just fine by me.

[The Operator]

Logan Wilson laid a big hit on OBJ, too bad it was after a huge completion.

[Kingspoint]

So, what's the news on Burrow?

What's wrong?

[Roy Tucker]

Like to see Beckham taken down with violence by Wilson.

[The Operator]

So, what's the news on Burrow?

What's wrong?

I keep hearing it’s a wrist injury.

- - - Updated - - -

TD Ravens


Shredded again tonight

[Redsfan6272]

if they want a chance they better bring off the practice squad AJ McCarren for the very next game.. going with Browning says they dont care they loose mentality

[RiverRat13]

When Lamar is hurt, the Ravens don't win much but they are still competitive in every game. We are going to see if the Bengals do the same without Burrow. Tonight doesn't bode well on that front.

[Roy Tucker]

Voodoo Child Slight Return still sounds modern 50+ years later.

[Cyclone792]

Bengals have spent a lot of draft capital on D in recent years, and a good chunk of these guys haven't developed as much as I'd like to see (other than Taylor-Britt).

We're missing Bell and Bates in the secondary this year. Awuzie doesn't appear to be the same as pre-injury. Hubbard's out. And Trey's not 100 percent tonight, though he's played well considering his knee injury. None of the replacements that we've drafted have adequately filled the shoes of the guys we've lost whether due to FA or injury.

[Redsfan6272]

Browning stands there and takes sack.. doesnt move and doesnt throw the ball away.. What a joke.. how is he a backup?

[Roy Tucker]

Browning is thoroughly bamboozled.

[RiverRat13]

if they want a chance they better bring off the practice squad AJ McCarren for the very next game.. going with Browning says they dont care they loose mentality

AJ McCarron was out of the NFL for a reason. It's doubtful he's much of an upgrade over Browning.

[The Operator]

When Lamar is hurt, the Ravens don't win much but they are still competitive in every game. We are going to see if the Bengals do the same without Burrow. Tonight doesn't bode well on that front.

It is weird as a Bengals fan to see how some teams stay competitive with their backup QB getting significant action.


When Palmer would miss time after Kitna was gone, it was bad. Not looking great without Burrow so far.


The only time I’ve seen the Bengals stay mostly competitive with a backup QB was AJ McCarron in 2015.

[Redsfan6272]

AJ McCarron was out of the NFL for a reason. It's doubtful he's much of an upgrade over Browning.

he was awesome this past year for the XFL.. if that isnt a upgrade over Browning, then why have him on the practice squad??

[The Operator]

Garbage time TD to Chase.

[Kingspoint]

What really sucks is that if the Bengals score a TD, several Bengals will get excited like they just accomplished something special.

[The Operator]

PAT is good


34-20

[Roy Tucker]

Chase seemed pretty disgusted with the TD.

[The Operator]

On side kick attempt with 68 seconds left, down 2 TD’s


Okey doke

[Kingspoint]

Chase seemed pretty disgusted with the TD.

Someone who gets it. Few NFL players do.

[RiverRat13]

LOL. What? Bob Sheed can have a field day with this one.

https://x.com/rapsheet/status/1725365492108435530?s=46&t=wL7LgJH8agKJkhUxTq_R9g

[KoryMac5]

Burrow clearly says on the sidelines he felt a pop…early speculation torn wrist tendon.

[The Operator]

Roquan Smith says “Sometimes when you play the Ravens D, those things happen”.


Classy.

[CTA513]

Burrow clearly says on the sidelines he felt a pop…early speculation torn wrist tendon.

I could be wrong but I feel like I saw him holding his wrist after a play last week against the *edit* Texans, not bills.

[The Operator]

I could be wrong but I feel like I saw him holding his wrist after a play last week against the Bills.

I think you may be thinking of the weird fingernail thing with the Bills.


I missed most of the Texans game, could you be thinking of that?

[CTA513]

I think you may be thinking of the weird fingernail thing with the Bills.


I missed most of the Texans game, could you be thinking of that?

*edit* yes the Texans game, I got those games mixed up.l

[Redsfaithful]

Sprained wrist, 10 days off, he'll play vs. Pittsburgh.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

So, what's the news on Burrow?

What's wrong?

I saw a video in which Joe appeared to say , I heard a pop." A medical doctor tweeted that Joe being on the sideline without a brace or cast likely means a torn ligament or tendon.

[The Operator]

Sprained wrist, 10 days off, he'll play vs. Pittsburgh.

Is that official? That’s basically a miracle if so.


They’ll still need to basically win out or darn near it, but if he doesn’t miss another game that’s amazing.

[Redsfaithful]

Is that official? That’s basically a miracle if so.


They’ll still need to basically win out or darn near it, but if he doesn’t miss another game that’s amazing.

Taylor said they think he sprained it, nothing I've seen yet on how severe. He also told Queen he thinks he'll be fine after the game. I think he'll play.

[Kingspoint]

November 16th, 2023 at 4:57pm CST by Sam Robinson

Here is the latest from the AFC North:

Joe Burrow has improved since the summer calf injury significantly restricted him early this season, but ahead of a pivotal Thursday-night matchup against the Ravens, the superstar Bengals QB was spotted wearing a brace or sleeve on his throwing hand. The Bengals shared video of their arrival in Baltimore but later deleted the tweet, though WCPO’s Caleb Noe spotted the fourth-year passer with the brace. This may not be especially important, as Burrow has not missed an NFL game due to injury since his rookie-year ACL tear. Seeing as the Bengals did not disclose a Burrow hand injury and deleted a video that may indicate one, this is worth monitoring.

Chidobe Awuzie‘s return from ACL surgery has not resulted in the veteran regaining his form, and the Bengals have used younger corners Cam Taylor-Britt and DJ Turner as their starters alongside slot Mike Hilton in recent weeks. Pro Football Focus does not grade any of Cincy’s corners in the top 60 at the position. The Bengals rank 25th against the pass. The Bengals were not among the teams who made deals at the trade deadline.

[Kingspoint]

I personally can't comprehend how much torque his wrist encounters when Joe Burrow snaps his wrist on a throw. It'd be akin to trying to understand the torque that Lanny Wadkins used to place on his wrists on a tee shot.

[KoryMac5]

That wrist was pretty swollen...wrist sprain would be great especially with 10 days off.

MRI today.

[WVRed]

Roquan Smith says “Sometimes when you play the Ravens D, those things happen”.


Classy.Except the Ravens did nothing to contribute to Burrows injury.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bengals don't get fined for not disclosing Burrows injury. They were in a scramble to delete the picture of him with the brace.

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[KoryMac5]

Except the Ravens did nothing to contribute to Burrows injury.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bengals don't get fined for not disclosing Burrows injury. They were in a scramble to delete the picture of him with the brace.

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Not 100% sure they didn't contribute he was hit by Clowney and landed on that wrist pretty hard. I am sure the Bengals will point to that.

[Sea Ray]

Is that official? That’s basically a miracle if so.


They’ll still need to basically win out or darn near it, but if he doesn’t miss another game that’s amazing.

They sure don’t have to go 12-5 to make the playoffs. They could probably lose two but that’s still a tall order considering this schedule


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[WVRed]

They sure don’t have to go 12-5 to make the playoffs. They could probably lose two but that’s still a tall order considering this schedule


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDoesn't help they are 0-3 in the division either. Tie breakers aren't going to help them this year.

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[KoryMac5]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38919776/nfl-investigate-bengals-injury-report-compliance

NFL looking into this...

[RedTeamGo!]

So, basically, Vegas is pissed

[WVRed]

So, basically, Vegas is pissedYou'd think after Bijan Robinson happened earlier this year they would at least put Burrow on the list.

It's stupid but the NFL made their bed with FanDuel and DraftKings.

Really wish the Bengals would have made an attempt to draft a developmental QB in last year's draft. Browning isn't the answer. Someone like Aidan O'Connell, Jake Haener, DTR, or Jaren Hall. Would have said Stetson Bennett but he's looking like a flameout at this point.

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[Sea Ray]

Doesn't help they are 0-3 in the division either. Tie breakers aren't going to help them this year.

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They did win the division at 3-3 last year but your point is well taken. The good news of a tough schedule is that they have a chance to win head to head tie breakers. Given everything that's gone down...this isn't their year. Any successful Cin Bengal year is predicated on the health of Joe Burrow. Not every team is centered around its QB but this one is. Two serious Joe Burrow injuries can't be managed, particularly when the division and schedule are so tough

[WVRed]

They did win the division at 3-3 last year but your point is well taken. The good news of a tough schedule is that they have a chance to win head to head tie breakers. Given everything that's gone down...this isn't their year. Any successful Cin Bengal year is predicated on the health of Joe Burrow. Not every team is centered around its QB but this one is. Two serious Joe Burrow injuries can't be managed, particularly when the division and schedule are so toughIs it fair to compare Burrow to Carson Palmer now sans the playoff performance?

I'm starting to worry that's where Burrows career is headed.

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[Sea Ray]

Zac said that he knew nothing about a problem with Burrow prior to the game. That's his story and he's sticking to it. Unless they can prove differently, this investigation will go nowhere

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Is it fair to compare Burrow to Carson Palmer now sans the playoff performance?

I'm starting to worry that's where Burrows career is headed.

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They're alike in that they've both had injuries to deal with but there's no comparison as to production when they're healthy

[WVRed]

Zac said that he knew nothing about a problem with Burrow prior to the game. That's his story and he's sticking to it. Unless they can prove differently, this investigation will go nowhere

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They're alike in that they've both had injuries to deal with but there's no comparison as to production when they're healthyPalmer when healthy got the Bengals to the playoffs for the first time in 15 years and had he not gotten hurt in that game might have at least won the playoff game against Pittsburgh.

The injuries just really started to pile up to where he wasn't himself and derailed the Bengals seasons.

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[Plus Plus]

Zac said that he knew nothing about a problem with Burrow prior to the game. That's his story and he's sticking to it. Unless they can prove differently, this investigation will go nowhere

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They're alike in that they've both had injuries to deal with but there's no comparison as to production when they're healthy

I agree with both of this. Zac could easily say that he didn't notice the brace or assumed it was for fashion or something, there's not really any way the NFL gets anything out of this especially now that the "probable" tag is gone.

Regarding the second point, Andrew Luck could be a comparison up to this point. I hope the Bengals look back through their history and avoid the end of Luck's career (and the seasons with like 80 sacks).

[Hillsdale87]

Not 100% sure they didn't contribute he was hit by Clowney and landed on that wrist pretty hard. I am sure the Bengals will point to that.

His wrist wasn't swollen coming into the game. Then the play after he landed on his wrist, he went out and his wrist was swollen. He may have been a bit injured coming in, but that play was clearly the main contributor to the injury.


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[RiverRat13]

His wrist wasn't swollen coming into the game. Then the play after he landed on his wrist, he went out and his wrist was swollen. He may have been a bit injured coming in, but that play was clearly the main contributor to the injury.


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I agree. He was certainly throwing the ball just fine before being hit by Clowney.

[KoryMac5]

So, basically, Vegas is pissed

Bingo!

https://www.fox19.com/2023/11/17/class-action-lawsuit-against-bengals-coming-barstool-sports-founder-says/

[WVRed]

Burrow out for the year.

Torn ligament requires surgery.

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[The Operator]

Welp, it was fun.

Sports suck.

[KoryMac5]

Also Burrow was sporting an Ipad tablet glove...

Cmon NFL

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nfl-nothing-better-mistake-ipad-190129325.html

[Roy Tucker]

C’est la vie

[The Operator]

Also Burrow was sporting an Ipad tablet glove...

Cmon NFL

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nfl-nothing-better-mistake-ipad-190129325.html

Pretty wild that Dave Portnoy was losing his mind over a $120K bet he lost, calling for a class action lawsuit for people who lost bets, all over that one picture.

The better part is that Dave Portnoy is a huge “Michigan Man” and apparently thinks people who lost bets during the 2.5 year cheating operation just need to suck it up and deal with it.


Dave Portnoy sucks as a human being.

[The Operator]

Would be really nice if the Bengals could put together an offensive line that doesn’t allow their franchise QB to be outright assaulted every other play.

[KoryMac5]

Do they go with Browning who was ok against a soft 4th quarter D or give AJ a shot...

[WVRed]

Would be really nice if the Bengals could put together an offensive line that doesn’t allow their franchise QB to be outright assaulted every other play.The line has gradually gotten better every year. It's pretty remarkable that Burrow took a team with a worse o line than this to the Super Bowl. Part of it though is Burrow hanging onto the ball for too long.

I'd rather they just go with Browning and punt the season. I can't imagine McCarron will be much better.

Just crazy that two AFC North teams lose their QBs just days apart. Cleveland though won't be in as rough a shape losing Watson as us losing Burrow.


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[WVRed]

Only silver lining is Brock Bowers is now a realistic option in the draft.

Wonder if it's too late to flex the Jaguars game?

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[RiverRat13]

Only silver lining is Brock Bowers is now a realistic option in the draft.

Wonder if it's too late to flex the Jaguars game?

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I'd rather have Joe Ault.

[Hillsdale87]

Pretty wild that Dave Portnoy was losing his mind over a $120K bet he lost, calling for a class action lawsuit for people who lost bets, all over that one picture.

The better part is that Dave Portnoy is a huge “Michigan Man” and apparently thinks people who lost bets during the 2.5 year cheating operation just need to suck it up and deal with it.


Dave Portnoy sucks as a human being.

He was pretty clearly kidding


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[The Operator]

He was pretty clearly kidding


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That’s possible, I didn’t dig deep into the article.


I stand by my assessment of him as a human being, though.

[WVRed]

I'd rather have Joe Ault.I'd rather bring in a new O Line coach and quit throwing money and draft capital at the offensive line.

They've signed Orlando Brown, Ted Karras, La'el Collins and Alex Cappa in the last two years and drafted Cordell Volson. Jonah moving to RT has probably been for the better and they will probably have to replace him but not with a top 5-15 draft pick.

Higgins and Boyd are going to have to be replaced. TE is a weakness. There's no pass rush on the defense outside of Hendrickson and Reader is a FA after the season as well. Theres a lot more holes on this team than the offensive line.

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[KoryMac5]

He was pretty clearly kidding


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He has a bunch of tweets all over X today about it...so I wouldn't say he was thrilled as he is out 167k including his bet for the Bengals to win the SB. Though I do think he was mostly joking about the class action lawsuit.

[The Operator]

He has a bunch of tweets all over X today about it...so I wouldn't say he was thrilled as he is out 167k including his bet for the Bengals to win the SB. Though I do think he was mostly joking about the class action lawsuit.

Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.

[WVRed]

Just want to point out, if the Bengals do collapse the schedule next season likely means playing the Patriots, Giants, and Panthers if they finish last in the division.

Giants and Panthers are messes and Patriots could be rebuilding.

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[Todd Gack]

Just want to point out, if the Bengals do collapse the schedule next season likely means playing the Patriots, Giants, and Panthers if they finish last in the division.

Giants and Panthers are messes and Patriots could be rebuilding.

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Patriots
Panthers
Titans

We're already playing the NFC East.

[WVRed]

Patriots
Panthers
Titans

We're already playing the NFC East.My bad.

Who knows how Levis is going to pan out.

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[Bob Sheed]

This injury is going to expose a whole lot.

First and foremost, the Zac Attack.

[Kingspoint]

You'd think after Bijan Robinson happened earlier this year they would at least put Burrow on the list.

It's stupid but the NFL made their bed with FanDuel and DraftKings.

Really wish the Bengals would have made an attempt to draft a developmental QB in last year's draft. Browning isn't the answer. Someone like Aidan O'Connell, Jake Haener, DTR, or Jaren Hall. Would have said Stetson Bennett but he's looking like a flameout at this point.

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But, Zac Taylor has been the worst Head Coach in the league since he's been in charge of the Bengals about disclosing accurate information regarding injuries, at least that's the reputation he has amongst people who bet on games and bet on Fantasy Football.

Yesterday was par for the course for Zac Taylor.

- - - Updated - - -


They did win the division at 3-3 last year but your point is well taken. The good news of a tough schedule is that they have a chance to win head to head tie breakers. Given everything that's gone down...this isn't their year. Any successful Cin Bengal year is predicated on the health of Joe Burrow. Not every team is centered around its QB but this one is. Two serious Joe Burrow injuries can't be managed, particularly when the division and schedule are so tough

It's also taken a lot longer for the Defense to make up for the loss of Bates and Bell, with a large part of that being the bad play of Awuzie all year. Before his injury he was one of the best in the league at the Slot position.

[Kingspoint]

Still, I hope Tannehil is given his release that he asked for (no team has to then pay his contract), that the Bengals go after him, and that he chooses the Bengals. His experience in quickly understanding the Offense and ability to avoid turnovers would give this team a chance this season....if the Defense can fix some of the issues of the last two weeks.

- - - Updated - - -


This injury is going to expose a whole lot.

First and foremost, the Zac Attack.

You mean the "Lack o' Zac Attack".

- - - Updated - - -


Zac said that he knew nothing about a problem with Burrow prior to the game. That's his story and he's sticking to it. Unless they can prove differently, this investigation will go nowhere

- - - Updated - - -



They're alike in that they've both had injuries to deal with but there's no comparison as to production when they're healthy

Taylor has consistently shown to be a flat out liar when it comes to injury disclosures. He doesn't even try to hide it well. He's definitely going to get fined for this, and I could see the Bengals even losing a draft pick for it. Taylor has done it before several times.

[Boss-Hog]

But, Zac Taylor has been the worst Head Coach in the league since he's been in charge of the Bengals about disclosing accurate information regarding injuries, at least that's the reputation he has amongst people who bet on games and bet on Fantasy Football.

Yesterday was par for the course for Zac Taylor.

- - - Updated - - -



It's also taken a lot longer for the Defense to make up for the loss of Bates and Bell, with a large part of that being the bad play of Awuzie all year. Before his injury he was one of the best in the league at the Slot position.Chido isn't/wasn't the Bengals' slot cornerback - that's Mike Hilton's role. Chido plays outside CB.

[Todd Gack]

So I've been quiet since the Rams game. I was hoping my absence would spark a run since I'm a little superstitious and it did a little bit but obviously now it's not going to happen. But I've got a lot of thoughts that I'm sure many won't care about but I'm going to type them out nonetheless.

1) Frank Pollack needs to be fired and we need to go scorched-earth on our OL in terms of how we view it. How is this not being talked about more? We spent considerable draft capital and money on our OL and it's just putrid right now. When I say "scorched earth," I mean we need to completely rethink how we're evaluating those guys or bring in new people who can. It's obvious we're not developing those guys. Jackson Carman's fat *** was inactive again and anyone with a brain knew that pick was a waste. This was never a "hindsight" pick. Volson and Cappa have both regressed. At this point, I would tag Jonah instead of Tee because we are so terrible at developing/scouting OL. It's a travesty that we have not properly protected our most valuable investment. I'm not saying last night's injury was the direct fault of OL. Injuries happen, but man we are not good at this.

2) Find a new playcaller. I'm not an idiot and I don't believe Zac will be fired. I simply do not think he's a good coach and an even worse play caller. As has been said on Twitter, even if we lucked into drafting Bowers next year, it doesn't mean he'd be utilized intelligently. We simply don't seem to know how to use them. Zac has been VERY fortunate to suck badly enough in his first year to get Burrow. And then, we were SO BAD at protecting Burrow in his rookie year, that we again lucked into getting Chase. That's pretty much what our entire offense is based off of right now. I have always said Tee is not a #1 WR. No one is going to double him like teams would to Jamar. He's just not a #1. . . but he's the perfect #2. Our adjustments, in games we struggle, are just not good. Heck, our offenses in the playoffs have been average at best. Our defense won us those games.

3) We need to rethink how we draft. We simply need to be more aggressive to get guys we want. Drafting projects in the late 30's is frustrating. As you know, I have my reservations about Dax Hill. He hasn't been anything to write home about. In fact, I'm more excited about Jordan Battle right now. DJ Turner seems like a very good pick right now but man, the early reaction regarding Murphy is not good. It's just really frustrating to see a franchise that's in a "win now" mode to draft "projects" with their 1st round picks.

4) Resign Reader. I know the Bengals philosophy on guys with 3rd contracts, but I think reader would be worth it. We have no one to replace him. He's irreplaceable.

5) 2024 is our year. Schedule will be there. "Tank" if you can. I know they won't but any win we get is a worse draft pick.

[Kingspoint]

Chido isn't/wasn't the Bengals' slot cornerback - that's Mike Hilton's role. Chido plays outside CB.

True, which makes his inability to recover that form he had last year all the more important (because of the need of the pre-injury Awuzie that was counted on to buy time for the loss of Bell and Bates).

Having 3 out of the main 4 (I know 2 LB's is the norm now for about 60% of plays) Secondary player be pretty bad simply can't be overcome. We were hoping that our pass-rush, which has been good, would have helped, but Hubbard has missed the last two games and that made a huge difference.

Not a single player in our Secondary is in the Top-60 per PFF rankings. That basically means that none of them are as good as any other team's Starting Cornerbacks or Starting Safeties.

[Todd Gack]

True, which makes his inability to recover that form he had last year all the more important (because of the need of the pre-injury Awuzie that was counted on to buy time for the loss of Bell and Bates).

Having 3 out of the main 4 (I know 2 LB's is the norm now for about 60% of plays) Secondary player be pretty bad simply can't be overcome. We were hoping that our pass-rush, which has been good, would have helped, but Hubbard has missed the last two games and that made a huge difference.

Not a single player in our Secondary is in the Top-60 per PFF rankings. That basically means that none of them are as good as any other team's Starting Cornerbacks or Starting Safeties.

CTB is a player. The eye test doesn’t pass with PFF’s stats. He’s better than that. The rest of the secondary is accurate though. IMO Jesse Bates was overrated and not worth his next contract but he was “good.” We do miss the leadership back there but I trust Lou.

[KoryMac5]

CTB is a player. The eye test doesn’t pass with PFF’s stats. He’s better than that. The rest of the secondary is accurate though. IMO Jesse Bates was overrated and not worth his next contract but he was “good.” We do miss the leadership back there but I trust Lou.

Bates has been elite this season with ATL...he is a more traditional free safety plus he worked really well with Bell, he definitely is missed, though I would have not paid a safety that much cash. Hill I think has time to grow into the role. If I was Lou I would start Battle and Hill rest of the year and let those two gel together. Battle had a good game vs Baltimore and is a willing tackler and run defender.

The main issue on D...no pass rush...Trey is the only rusher we have. Bengals thought Ossai would step up and he hasn't, Murphy is still pretty raw.

[Todd Gack]

Bates has been elite this season with ATL...he is a more traditional free safety plus he worked really well with Bell, he definitely is missed, though I would have not paid a safety that much cash. Hill I think has time to grow into the role. If I was Lou I would start Battle and Hill rest of the year and let those two gel together. Battle had a good game vs Baltimore and is a willing tackler and run defender.

The main issue on D...no pass rush...Trey is the only rusher we have. Bengals thought Ossai would step up and he hasn't, Murphy is still pretty raw.

Bates was MIA most of last year. He wasn’t worth his production.

“Murphy is raw” is like girls telling me as a teenage boy “YOU ARE SUCH A NICE GUY!!!!”

No one wants to hear that. Goodberry is pretty “meh” about him right now and he looks worse than that on the field. I guess we’ll have to wait until next year to see how he’ll develop?

[KoryMac5]

Bates was MIA most of last year. He wasn’t worth his production.

“Murphy is raw” is like girls telling me as a teenage boy “YOU ARE SUCH A NICE GUY!!!!”

No one wants to hear that. Goodberry is pretty “meh” about him right now and he looks worse than that on the field. I guess we’ll have to wait until next year to see how he’ll develop?

Bates was hurt by the lack of contract talks...he was good when it counted in the playoffs though his last season here. He has been elite with ATL this season and is sorely missed here this season. Odd that the D fell apart with Bell and Bates both being major departures. Though you did always dislike Bates.

I do think Murphy needs to play better considering where he was drafted. Ossai, Sample, Carter all have been invisible since Hubbard went out.

[RedEye]

Man, what a bummer of a day.

[Todd Gack]

Bates was hurt by the lack of contract talks...he was good when it counted in the playoffs though his last season here. He has been elite with ATL this season and is sorely missed here this season. Odd that the D fell apart with Bell and Bates both being major departures. Though you did always dislike Bates.

I do think Murphy needs to play better considering where he was drafted. Ossai, Sample, Carter all have been invisible since Hubbard went out.

We'll just have to disagree about Bates. I don't think he was a bad player at all. I think he was an above average safety but I was never "WOWed" by him. I would never resign a safety unless he's an Ed Reed/Sean Taylor/Polamalu type. I was willing to give up the money he wanted for an better offensive line. Unfortunately, Frank Pollack is awful.

[KoryMac5]

This injury is going to expose a whole lot.

First and foremost, the Zac Attack.

I think Browning can play a bit he had a good career at Washington until back to back shoulder surgeries derailed him. He took a ton of snaps in preseason. He's accurate and can move a bit.

Downside he's not Burrow...
He gets happy feet in the pocket...
His arm strength never fully recovered.

Be interesting to see if Taylor can pull a Harbaugh and win some games with a back up

[Reds Freak]

This injury is going to expose a whole lot.

First and foremost, the Zac Attack.

Not really going out on a limb here. Curious how good you think Chiefs would be with Blaine Gabbert as their QB?

[RiverRat13]

Not really going out on a limb here. Curious how good you think Chiefs would be with Blaine Gabbert as their QB?

There would obviously be a gigantic drop off, but let's not forget last postseason Mahomes was injured for a series against the Jags and the Chiefs had a 90 yard touchdown drive with Chad frickin' Henne. Would you have any confidence that the Bengals could do that with this offensive staff?

[KoryMac5]

Also while Taylor has issues as a play caller he is a good head coach...

Him stopping the press conf. yesterday to stick up for Wilson was spot on...and a direct shot at Harbaugh which I absolutely loved.

He's really good with his players and that locker room.

[Todd Gack]

Also while Taylor has issues as a play caller he is a good head coach...

Him stopping the press conf. yesterday to stick up for Wilson was spot on...and a direct shot at Harbaugh which I absolutely loved.

He's really good with his players and that locker room.

Which NFL head coaches in the league would have thrown their LB under the bus for the obvious legal tackles?

Are we now giving Zac credit for doing something pretty much every other HC would've done?

[Todd Gack]

I also wanted to randomly add in this thread that the best blocker we've drafted outside of Jonah Williams since we drafted Whitworth in 06 is Drew Sample. I just find this wildly hilarious.

[Hillsdale87]

This injury is going to expose a whole lot.

First and foremost, the Zac Attack.

The Bengals beat the Steelers with Ryan Finley and Brandon Allen threw for 400 yards to beat the Texans. The Bengals have been an elite offense the last few years. I do not understand Bengals fans...

Every team goes through struggles, but overall this has been a top offense even with some significant personnel holes, especially OL. Yes, Burrow is a big part of that, but every good coach also has good players.


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[KoryMac5]

Which NFL head coaches in the league would have thrown their LB under the bus for the obvious legal tackles?

Are we now giving Zac credit for doing something pretty much every other HC would've done?

Your hate for Taylor is strong...

His sticking up for Wilson is much better than your buddy Lewis and his love for Burfict and Pac Attack...and his constant excuses for their abhorrent behavior.

Guys in the locker room love playing for Taylor...for reasons like the one above.

I do agree with your later comment on the O line...

The Bengals can't develop lineman its like the Reds and pitchers...

Supposedly Pollack is a good with technique...I continue to come back to scheme fit.

[WVRed]

Your hate for Taylor is strong...

His sticking up for Wilson is much better than your buddy Lewis and his love for Burfict and Pac Attack...and his constant excuses for their abhorrent behavior.

Guys in the locker room love playing for Taylor...for reasons like the one above.

I do agree with your later comment on the O line...

The Bengals can't develop lineman its like the Reds and pitchers...

Supposedly Pollack is a good with technique...I continue to come back to scheme fit.I was thinking about Burfict when I saw the Ravens complaining about Wilson.

I don't view Wilson as a dirty player but him taking out three Ravens was very Burfict like.

To be honest the rivalry has flipped. Back then it was the Steelers. Now I think the animosity has flipped to Baltimore. We got under their skin when Burrow gashed them for over 500+ yards and they've changed both coordinators since. They (and the Browns) have adjusted to the Bengals and Burrow.

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[WVRed]

Kinda cool to see. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231118/a9b7a7f9bb9756167e60f61cfb150f4e.jpg

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[WVRed]

Amazing how many people on social media think the Bengals can tank low enough to get Marvin Harrison Jr.

He will be gone long before the Bengals pick.

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[Hillsdale87]

Amazing how many people on social media think the Bengals can tank low enough to get Marvin Harrison Jr.

He will be gone long before the Bengals pick.

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They already have too many wins to get Harrison


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[Tony Cloninger]

They had what. 12 million in cap space. After the Brown and Joe signing. They probably knew what Joe would cost in 23. They sat on their usual we go with what we have now that we have been winning motto. The way they drafted a player who is not helping at all on the DL. To not adding depth when they could have at DL. Even OL. They continue to have too much space to not have procured better depth.

The Ravens and Browns and Steelers all realized they had to get moving on getting better players and depth. Clowney or Van Noy are 2 that standout.


At least the Steelers depth at LB is zilch now and Mincah is out. Their defense is very vulnerable except for the pathetic QB they will be facing.

[Bob Sheed]

Not really going out on a limb here. Curious how good you think Chiefs would be with Blaine Gabbert as their QB?

You could have helped your counterpoint if you would have maybe said the Ravens or Browns. But you went straight to the master class, AKA Andy Reid.

Zac Taylor is no Andy Reid, that's for sure. Taylor is more like "Anti-Reid".

There's no doubt that Reid would be able to get more from less than Taylor can. Reid is a HOF coach. Taylor looked more like Dave Shula before Burrow walked through the door.

[Hillsdale87]

You could have helped your counterpoint if you would have maybe said the Ravens or Browns. But you went straight to the master class, AKA Andy Reid.

Zac Taylor is no Andy Reid, that's for sure. Taylor is more like "Anti-Reid".

There's no doubt that Reid would be able to get more from less than Taylor can. Reid is a HOF coach. Taylor looked more like Dave Shula before Burrow walked through the door.

McVay lost his starting QB last year and the Rams were one of the worst teams in the NFL. Until Brock Purdy, the 49ers were terrible whenever they lost their starting QB. I don't know why anybody would judge a coach based on how his team does with a backup QB


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[KoryMac5]

You could have helped your counterpoint if you would have maybe said the Ravens or Browns. But you went straight to the master class, AKA Andy Reid.

Zac Taylor is no Andy Reid, that's for sure. Taylor is more like "Anti-Reid".

There's no doubt that Reid would be able to get more from less than Taylor can. Reid is a HOF coach. Taylor looked more like Dave Shula before Burrow walked through the door.

That roster Taylor was given was absolutely awful which was the point as the Bengals were tanking. I am interested in seeing how Taylor does with Burrow out and Browning in. Pitts will be a good first test.

[Bob Sheed]

McVay lost his starting QB last year and the Rams were one of the worst teams in the NFL. Until Brock Purdy, the 49ers were terrible whenever they lost their starting QB. I don't know why anybody would judge a coach based on how his team does with a backup QB


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Taylor's 1st year, 2019, he had:

OFFENSE:
Andy Dalton
Joe Mixon
Tyler Boyd
A. J. Green
Tyler Eifert

DEFENSE:
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Sam Hubbard
Jessie Bates
William Jackson III

...best he could do was 2-14.

But it did get them Burrow. And what did they do with their shiny new Ferrari? They drove it recklessly and wrapped it around a tree. The oline coach, Taylor's good buddy Jim Turner (and Turner's undying love and support for guys like Bobby Hart), was as terrible as the culture Turner brought with him.

Anyway though, so what was Taylor's punishment for wrecking Joe Burrow?

Ja'Maar Chase.

So there they were, heading into year 3, Zac Taylor with an even worse record than Dave Shula. But with the benefit at that point of two drafts at the top of the draft order. So he has a bunch of good young talent on rookie contracts, and a generational QB that he was very fortunate not to have ruined.

Then things start falling into place. To say the least. But all the while, Burrow is still getting clobbered worse than even a guy like Andrew Luck. But there's success. The Joe Burrow Factor is able to overcome The Zac Attack Factor. It's good to be a Bengals fan.

And now, here we go again. Burrow injured from being hit too much. Again. Should be a full recovery, though. Again. But these injuries do add up. And it's 100 percent on Zac Taylor.

So now we go to battle with Tank Master II again, and the Bengals should get another high draft class to work with. For what is now 3 out of 5 seasons.

MEANWHILE... The Browns lost Watson. They're still in it. The Ravens seem to find a way with or without Jackson. And the Steelers are the Steelers.

But Taylor? The Zac Attack needs everyone firing on all cylinders, including their generational QB, otherwise it's another blown season and more high draft picks to prop up the Zac Attack.

Honestly, with Taylor, I have never seen a guy do less with as much as he has, from an offense standpoint. He's like the opposite of an innovator. Is outovator a word? He seems like a decent head coach, don't get me wrong. But dude has NO BUSINESS calling or designing plays.

And we're about to see that.

Again.

[Hillsdale87]

Never seen a guy do less with what he has [emoji849]

Super Bowl trip with a QB coming off a torn ACL followed by an AFC championship game that they lost on a last second kick to the eventual champions.

Zac has been probably the most successful HC in the NFL the last 2 seasons outside of Andy Reid. I don't think he's the second best HC in the NFL, but he's clearly doing a lot right. And he's not dealing with perfect circumstances. Burrow hasn't had a preseason yet. The OL has been a problem the entire time. Yes, the roster is good, and the WRs and QB are elite, but the team is not full of superstars. The Bengals have at worst played up to their level of talent the last two years, and I think most would say they've exceeded it.

Yes, he's fortunate to have gotten Burrow. But that's how it works. Find me a coach who has a lot of success without a great QB. The AFC is full of great QBs, and yet he's taken the Bengals farther than just about anyone else. Not that he's on Phil Jackson's level, but this just reminds me of people saying Phil wasn't really a great coach, but he just got lucky to have MJ and Kobe and Shaq. Yes, the most successful coaches often have superstars.


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[KoryMac5]

Taylor's 1st year, 2019, he had:

OFFENSE:
Andy Dalton
Joe Mixon
Tyler Boyd
A. J. Green
Tyler Eifert

DEFENSE:
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Sam Hubbard
Jessie Bates
William Jackson III

...best he could do was 2-14.

But it did get them Burrow. And what did they do with their shiny new Ferrari? They drove it recklessly and wrapped it around a tree. The oline coach, Taylor's good buddy Jim Turner (and Turner's undying love and support for guys like Bobby Hart), was as terrible as the culture Turner brought with him.

Anyway though, so what was Taylor's punishment for wrecking Joe Burrow?

Ja'Maar Chase.

So there they were, heading into year 3, Zac Taylor with an even worse record than Dave Shula. But with the benefit at that point of two drafts at the top of the draft order. So he has a bunch of good young talent on rookie contracts, and a generational QB that he was very fortunate not to have ruined.

Then things start falling into place. To say the least. But all the while, Burrow is still getting clobbered worse than even a guy like Andrew Luck. But there's success. The Joe Burrow Factor is able to overcome The Zac Attack Factor. It's good to be a Bengals fan.

And now, here we go again. Burrow injured from being hit too much. Again. Should be a full recovery, though. Again. But these injuries do add up. And it's 100 percent on Zac Taylor.

So now we go to battle with Tank Master II again, and the Bengals should get another high draft class to work with. For what is now 3 out of 5 seasons.

MEANWHILE... The Browns lost Watson. They're still in it. The Ravens seem to find a way with or without Jackson. And the Steelers are the Steelers.

But Taylor? The Zac Attack needs everyone firing on all cylinders, including their generational QB, otherwise it's another blown season and more high draft picks to prop up the Zac Attack.

Honestly, with Taylor, I have never seen a guy do less with as much as he has, from an offense standpoint. He's like the opposite of an innovator. Is outovator a word? He seems like a decent head coach, don't get me wrong. But dude has NO BUSINESS calling or designing plays.

And we're about to see that.

Again.

This is hilarious...
C'mon Bob you can't be serious...even this is too much coming from you.

That 2019 roster was awful the line was anchored by Bobby Hart, Jordan, Trey Hopkins, Andre Smith, John Miller who came in late off the street if I remember. It was awful.

Eifert was a shell of himself as was AJ Green who was once again injured. Boyd had good year and caught 90 balls after being in Marv's dog house. Ross and Tate were the other wide outs.

Dunlap was probably the best piece on D as Atkins was starting to slow...Hubbard had just got here and had a nice rookie season.

If they had started Dalton all year and were healthy maybe they could have squeezed out 4-5 wins...

However moving past that point...looking at 2019 and 2023 illustrates something deeper, the Bengals are just awful when it comes to finding good athletic O lineman. John Sheeran talked about this on twitter today. The Bengals continue to draft average athletes on the o line who get handed their lunch on a consistent basis as the Defensive Ends in this league are unreal from an athletic stand point...

[Hillsdale87]

Taylor's 1st year, 2019, he had:

OFFENSE:
Andy Dalton
Joe Mixon
Tyler Boyd
A. J. Green
Tyler Eifert

DEFENSE:
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Sam Hubbard
Jessie Bates
William Jackson III


Washed up Green, Eifert, Atkins, and Dunlap. Dalton was toast at that point and has not been good since. A team with Boyd as the #1 is going to be terrible. That team had no chance to be good


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[Todd Gack]

Your hate for Taylor is strong...

His sticking up for Wilson is much better than your buddy Lewis and his love for Burfict and Pac Attack...and his constant excuses for their abhorrent behavior.

Guys in the locker room love playing for Taylor...for reasons like the one above.

I do agree with your later comment on the O line...

The Bengals can't develop lineman its like the Reds and pitchers...

Supposedly Pollack is a good with technique...I continue to come back to scheme fit.

You didn't answer my question. You need to stop being a Bengals homer.

FYI, I always though Marvin was milquetoast. But if we're grading on a curve, he deserves more credit than Zac for turning the franchise around. Marvin still had to deal with an owner who was still running day-to-day operations. Now we actually have somewhat competent people in the FO supporting the coaching staff.

[Redhook]

Regarding Taylor, I like him as a head coach, but I dislike his play calling just as much. With that said, his grade goes down for not recognizing that he needs to replace himself as the play caller. Overall, I think he’s above average and I’m cool with him being the head coach. It could worse. Much worse.

[KoryMac5]

You didn't answer my question. You need to stop being a Bengals homer.

FYI, I always though Marvin was milquetoast. But if we're grading on a curve, he deserves more credit than Zac for turning the franchise around. Marvin still had to deal with an owner who was still running day-to-day operations. Now we actually have somewhat competent people in the FO supporting the coaching staff.

Yes that is always your go to...say anything positive and you're a homer...

I am critical of the Bengals plenty...they suck at drafting and developing the O line...which is a huge issue and one that needs to be addressed if they want to keep Burrow upright. They also whiffed big time on TE...they also should have signed another Veteran pass rusher or DT as insurance this season, plenty of guys were out there they just go with what they have. When the window is open (Burrow is still relatively cheap) you have to keep pushing the envelope before his cap hit gets huge.

Marv was in bed with Mike Brown for years...he should have stood up to him once they drafted Palmer...he never did. He was complacent in his job security. Taylor is leaps ahead of the Lewis era.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Also while Taylor has issues as a play caller he is a good head coach...

Him stopping the press conf. yesterday to stick up for Wilson was spot on...and a direct shot at Harbaugh which I absolutely loved.

He's really good with his players and that locker room.



That's about all he's good at but, yes, he is very good with those things. Now, let's hire a coach who knows how to do the football stuff.

[Bob Sheed]

Part of me wishes that guys like McVay and Reid didn't have any success at all calling plays.

Because now everyone thinks they can do it.

Even being a Head Coach that delegates responsibilities properly is still well beyond a full time job, to do it properly. And unless they are some kind of football savant, there simply aren't enough hours in the day for one person to do the HC and OC jobs effectively and consistently.

Joey Franchise has been an enabler for Taylor to be able to get by, and actually do well, despite spreading himself too thin. That's all about to be exposed. But the narrative will of course be "this team couldn't possibly succeed without Burrow!" :dunno: Which I don't think is true. Taylor is a plenty capable Head Coach. But as a Head Coach AND Play Caller/Designer, he stinks at it. Badly. And so does 99.9% of the rest of the population of the world.

Unfortunately, I suspect Taylor is drunk on the power of being the HC and playcaller. Only way to fix that, is to let him go. I wish I was wrong. I like Taylor. I'll bet you he has a life outside of football too. That also doesn't track with the limited hours of the day, trying to do as much is he is trying to do.

He runs an offense like a guy who is spread too thin and doesn't have enough time to prepare. But Burrow will bail him out. Until he doesn't.

[KoryMac5]

Part of me wishes that guys like McVay and Reid didn't have any success at all calling plays.

Because now everyone thinks they can do it.

Even being a Head Coach that delegates responsibilities properly is still well beyond a full time job, to do it properly. And unless they are some kind of football savant, there simply aren't enough hours in the day for one person to do the HC and OC jobs effectively and consistently.

Joey Franchise has been an enabler for Taylor to be able to get by, and actually do well, despite spreading himself too thin. That's all about to be exposed. But the narrative will of course be "this team couldn't possibly succeed without Burrow!" :dunno: Which I don't think is true. Taylor is a plenty capable Head Coach. But as a Head Coach AND Play Caller/Designer, he stinks at it. Badly. And so does 99.9% of the rest of the population of the world.

Unfortunately, I suspect Taylor is drunk on the power of being the HC and playcaller. Only way to fix that, is to let him go. I wish I was wrong. I like Taylor. I'll bet you he has a life outside of football too. That also doesn't track with the limited hours of the day, trying to do as much is he is trying to do.

He runs an offense like a guy who is spread too thin and doesn't have enough time to prepare. But Burrow will bail him out. Until he doesn't.

I don't see Taylor as a guy drunk on power...he doesn't strike me as the type

The problem might be you have 4 guys cooking the meal...Taylor, Pitcher, Callahan, Burrow all have a hand in it. Perhaps less voices would be better.

Perhaps a better O line would cure all but they have been trying to fix that since Whit left.

[Hillsdale87]

I feel like Bengals fans have become more delusional than OSU fans. The Bengals are an elite offense whenever Burrow has been healthy! If you want to look at a coach who's actually minimizing his team's talent, check out the Chargers... What a mess

I wish Taylor was a bit more creative. But they were a top 5 offense by DVOA last year, even after a putrid first few games with Burrow getting up to speed. There's just no statistical case that Taylor calling plays is detrimental. Maybe it would work to bring in another playcaller, but it's not an obvious problem.


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[Redsfaithful]

Yeah the Chargers are a good comp, Herbert is a beast and it doesn't matter.

[Hillsdale87]

Yeah the Chargers are a good comp, Herbert is a beast and it doesn't matter.

They're not a good comp. The Chargers are failures who miss the playoffs or flame out. The Bengals are successful but lose the Super Bowl.


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[Reds Freak]

I feel like Bengals fans have become more delusional than OSU fans. The Bengals are an elite offense whenever Burrow has been healthy! If you want to look at a coach who's actually minimizing his team's talent, check out the Chargers... What a mess


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You could have helped your counterpoint if you would have maybe said the Ravens or Browns. But you went straight to the master class, AKA Andy Reid.

Zac Taylor is no Andy Reid, that's for sure. Taylor is more like "Anti-Reid".

There's no doubt that Reid would be able to get more from less than Taylor can. Reid is a HOF coach. Taylor looked more like Dave Shula before Burrow walked through the door.

Off the top of my head, I'm trying to think of a team who has lost their franchise QB recently and been fine. Patriots, Packers, Steelers all mediocre after losing theirs. The Dolphins stink without Tua, so do the Cowboys without Dak. Who am I missing?

I know you and Todd Gack are our resident Zac bashers, but you're over the top here.

[Tony Cloninger]

Maybe with Browning not involved in the offensive designs and just told to stay under center the OL becomes more attuned to run blocking. Are they are least better at that if they go with an offense like that? Still doesn’t help the defense and lack of DE depth. They drafted 3-4 guys in the last 3 years. None of them have done much this year to help.

[oregonred]

Off the top of my head, I'm trying to think of a team who has lost their franchise QB recently and been fine. Patriots, Packers, Steelers all mediocre after losing theirs. The Dolphins stink without Tua, so do the Cowboys without Dak. Who am I missing?

I know you and Todd Sack are our resident Zac bashers, but you're over the top here.

This with the exception of Brock Purdy running the Shanahan offense on a loaded team who literally dropped in out of nowhere.

The AFC is a gauntlet, you can't lose a top end QB for long and hope to tread water. The Bengals get the best shot of everyone over the last couple of seasons after 2 straight conf champ games.

Checking the schedule. Right now out of the Bengals 17 games in 2023, currently only three teams have a losing record (AZ, Rams and Tenn). Next year let others in the AFC North deal with the Dolphins/Bills, Jags/Texans in the crossover games.

I think Burrow does check out of a lot of runs and would like to see a stable of 2-3 capable RBs to run a little more and give Mixon some rest

We'll see what they do with Browning, it will be interesting...

Does Staley get fired by midnight or will it happen tomorrow? It's pretty inexcusable to be 4-6 with a healthy Herbert and Ekeler with zero playoff wins in 4 years.

[Redsfaithful]

They're not a good comp. The Chargers are failures who miss the playoffs or flame out. The Bengals are successful but lose the Super Bowl.


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I was agreeing with you that it shows Taylor is doing a better job.

[Hillsdale87]

I was agreeing with you that it shows Taylor is doing a better job.

Ah, my bad.


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[KoryMac5]

For those of us screaming about the line:

Andrew Russel on twitter

Where the Bengals starting OL ended the season with Joe Burrow under center (PFF pass pro grade, pressure % w/rank):

Williams: 65.9, (5.7%, 32nd)
Brown Jr: 62.6, (9.7%, 66th)
Karras: 61.8, (3.8%, 13th)
Cappa: 56.8, (4.7%, 32nd)
Volson: 28.7, (7.1%, 60th)

Volson is awful...

[KoryMac5]

Jordan Battle named starter at safety.

[Sea Ray]

Jordan Battle named starter at safety.

We definitely need better safety play. Our safeties are having issues with assignments etc


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[KoryMac5]

We definitely need better safety play. Our safeties are having issues with assignments etc


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Yeah it was like that Lou's first year I remember WJIII doing a ton of finger pointing...Takes a bit to learn Lou's system.

[KoryMac5]

Higgins and CTB both ruled out...

[KoryMac5]

Welp good luck to Browning today...easy kid to root for considering all the effort it took coming back from 2 shoulder surgeries. Not sure its going to go all that well...

[RiverRat13]

Defense gives up a 3rd and 14 then get back to back breaks with the Steelers not challenging Johnson's catch and then Carter punching out the ball at the last second.

[Oxilon]

Can’t help to chuckle at Gene Steratore’s explanation as to why Diontae Johnson’s reception should have been a completion and touchdown. It was a carbon copy of Chases’ incomplete pass in the playoffs against Buffalo last year. Even the officials can’t properly explain a catch.

[KoryMac5]

Can’t help to chuckle at Gene Steratore’s explanation as to why Diontae Johnson’s reception should have been a completion and touchdown. It was a carbon copy of Chases’ incomplete pass in the playoffs against Buffalo last year. Even the officials can’t properly explain a catch.

I was thinking the same exact thing...

Also Drew Sample has been a nice surprise this season.