UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

[WVRed]

Adou Theiro is in the portal.

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[cumberlandreds]

One down. 7 or 8 more to go.

[texasdave]

First-world problems.

[Stray]

Calipari to Arkansas...what?!?!?!

Insanity

[Stray]

I have opinions on Calipari the basketball x's and o's coach, but as an NBA developer he was phenomenal. He made a lot of guys a lot of money and he should be celebrated for that. It's not as easy as it would seem, and there's plenty of evidence where it didn't work elsewhere for others.

College hoops is a man's game now, and freshman recruits, no matter how much potential, are at a disadvantage. His window was closed in this era of college hoops, absent major changes. But who does Kentucky go after now? No way this happens if they don't have a major hire lined up, right?

[Stray]

Sources close to John Calipari say he had bad feelings about his situation at Kentucky, and that the lack of support had grown to the point where he didn’t feel like he could stay on because he didn’t feel wanted. The assets Arkansas put in place convinced him to make this move.
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1777183507548414140

[Assembly Hall]

Hopefully, Mike Woodson pounces on the UK job. But wow Cal.

[RedTeamGo!]

This coaching search will be fascinating

[KronoRed]

Coach Cal has always equaled sleazy dude to me but that's a lot of money to walk away from, and for Arkansas?

[WVRed]

Definitely didn't see this coming, wow.

Here's an early list:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/kentucky-coaching-candidates-billy-donovan-rick-pitino-nate-oats-dan-hurley-could-replace-john-calipari/

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[WVRed]

Coach Cal has always equaled sleazy dude to me but that's a lot of money to walk away from, and for Arkansas?It's Tubby Smith 2.0. Except without all the racist tropes.

After the season ended, Barnhart sat him down and told him he would have to make changes not just to staffing but organizational staffing. Kentucky basketball has operated on its own island within the athletic department and that wasn't going to be the case anymore.

Same thing kinda happened with Tubby. Barnhart wanted him to make changes to his staff and he wouldn't plus Kentucky had a no nepotism policy and he wanted Saul as an assistant.

Arkansas can be a major player moving forward. They have major donors who will be huge with NIL. Tyson foods, Walton Family, Jerry Jones, all big names. The question is can Cal get away from all freshmen and construct a roster that can win in the post-Covid era of basketball? The fans won't be as crazy in Fayetteville as they are in Lexington, so there's that.

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[WVRed]

I have opinions on Calipari the basketball x's and o's coach, but as an NBA developer he was phenomenal. He made a lot of guys a lot of money and he should be celebrated for that. It's not as easy as it would seem, and there's plenty of evidence where it didn't work elsewhere for others.

College hoops is a man's game now, and freshman recruits, no matter how much potential, are at a disadvantage. His window was closed in this era of college hoops, absent major changes. But who does Kentucky go after now? No way this happens if they don't have a major hire lined up, right?I figure there will be someone in place by Friday.

Barnhart will probably be at the championship game tonight with a blank check to Dan Hurley but the answer there is probably no.

Billy Donovan, Jay Wright, and Brad Stevens are probably nos as well.

Nate Oats has a huge buyout. Don't see Kentucky going there.

Scott Drew is the most realistic but he's already turned down Louisville (which is a dumpster fire)



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[cumberlandreds]

Yea didn't see this coming. But it's obvious Cal didn't want to go along with the changes Barnhart had mandated to him. The college game has changed a lot in just the last few years. And it will continue to evolve too over the next few years. I'm not sure Cal will evolve enough to be a huge success at Arkansas but he may do well enough to keep them satisfied down there. I don't know enough about who UK could get. They need a young dynamic coach who is will change with the game as it continues to evolve. Who that is, is anyone's guess?

[Boston Red]

Congrats to all the UK fans out there.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

I fear that Barnhardt will opt for the preacher's son from Waco. We all remember Waco, don't we? A Drew hire would end about as well as the Branch Davidians did.

I've heard that both Hurley and Donovan would take Mitch's call and listen to his pitch. Congratulate the UConn coach after his second straight title tonight and immdiately offer him eight figures and introduce him as the new coach this week.

[Boston Red]

Scott's dad Homer was a fantastic basketball coach.

[Tuff Nut]

Cal was a shot in the arm for UK when hired,and during his first 8 -10 years, but his shine has wore off, and it is time to go forward. Can't wait for the Arkansas game next season.

I wonder how many of his recruits will follow him, and how many will stay at UK. I am sure the latter will be answered with the acquisition of the new coach.

[Chip R]

Coach Cal has always equaled sleazy dude to me but that's a lot of money to walk away from, and for Arkansas?

IIRC, there wasn't even a hint of an NCAA investigation during his UK tenure. As for Arkansas, there's a lot of Wal Mart and Tyson Chicken money there.

[WVRed]

Cal was a shot in the arm for UK when hired,and during his first 8 -10 years, but his shine has wore off, and it is time to go forward. Can't wait for the Arkansas game next season.

I wonder how many of his recruits will follow him, and how many will stay at UK. I am sure the latter will be answered with the acquisition of the new coach.I'd say whoever comes here will have a clean slate. Everyone Cal recruited will follow him or go elsewhere except for maybe Travis Perry. Reed Sheppard could be in play if Pitino comes back but I don't see either of those scenarios happening.

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[cumberlandreds]

Cal was a shot in the arm for UK when hired,and during his first 8 -10 years, but his shine has wore off, and it is time to go forward. Can't wait for the Arkansas game next season.

I wonder how many of his recruits will follow him, and how many will stay at UK. I am sure the latter will be answered with the acquisition of the new coach.

I agree. He rescued UK from BCG and made UK a top level program again. His first few years were great but after 2015 it was slow slide down. Since the 19-20 season they have basically been off the national stage and not a real competitor for a Final Four. I have always said the UK job is for ten years max. Burnout happens after that and I think it did for Cal. Plus he just wasn't going to change with the times. It will be interesting to see how he does at Arkansas. As for UK I expect a pretty bad season next year. No one will be back and whoever comes in will have to bring in his own players and depend on transfers. So UK fans had better be somewhat patient until whoever the new coach is gets things in order.

[WVRed]

I agree. He rescued UK from BCG and made UK a top level program again. His first few years were great but after 2015 it was slow slide down. Since the 19-20 season they have basically been off the national stage and not a real competitor for a Final Four. I have always said the UK job is for ten years max. Burnout happens after that and I think it did for Cal. Plus he just wasn't going to change with the times. It will be interesting to see how he does at Arkansas. As for UK I expect a pretty bad season next year. No one will be back and whoever comes in will have to bring in his own players and depend on transfers. So UK fans had better be somewhat patient until whoever the new coach is gets things in order.I think whoever comes in next year can be successful right off the bat. But Kentucky has to nail it with the hire and that person hits the ground running with recruits.

If its Nate Oats for example, dudes made a killing in the transfer portal. Think he wouldn't have Kentucky in the tournament next year?

I'm betting all of the incoming recruits and any holdovers will be in the portal by Wednesday.

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[Tuff Nut]

I feel Sheppard could lean toward a return. I don't think he wants to leave UK, the way this season ended, and imo, he looked lost and confused against Oakland.

[cumberlandreds]

I think whoever comes in next year can be successful right off the bat. But Kentucky has to nail it with the hire and that person hits the ground running with recruits.

If its Nate Oats for example, dudes made a killing in the transfer portal. Think he wouldn't have Kentucky in the tournament next year?

I'm betting all of the incoming recruits and any holdovers will be in the portal by Wednesday.

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Yea I suppose whoever UK hires will bring most of their previous team with them. So it may be the Kentucky Crimson Blues or the Cat Bears. So it may not be a total disaster with another teams players.

[Chip R]

The thing fans don't understand about the UK job is that just because you are UK doesn't mean you are going to the Final Four every season. UK is no more entitled to be an elite program than Indiana is. Kansas didn't even win their conference this year after so many years in a row of conference titles. They won one game in the tournament and got routed by Gonzaga. In this era of almost unlimited transfers and NIL almost any program with a decent amount of money can compete. People criticized him for taking too many players just using UK as a way station to the NBA and not recruit players that will stay there 3-4 years. I don't understand why a program wouldn't want to recruit the best high school players. I think if they start recruiting lesser players, fans are going to be disappointed by the results. And there's no guarantee that those guys are going to stay 3-4 years. My alma mater is a mid major and up until this season has been relatively immune to the transfer portal. After this season there's several players who are looking to transfer. None of those guys were 5 star recruits. If it can happen to them it can sure happen to UK.

[WVRed]

The thing fans don't understand about the UK job is that just because you are UK doesn't mean you are going to the Final Four every season. UK is no more entitled to be an elite program than Indiana is. Kansas didn't even win their conference this year after so many years in a row of conference titles. They won one game in the tournament and got routed by Gonzaga. In this era of almost unlimited transfers and NIL almost any program with a decent amount of money can compete. People criticized him for taking too many players just using UK as a way station to the NBA and not recruit players that will stay there 3-4 years. I don't understand why a program wouldn't want to recruit the best high school players. I think if they start recruiting lesser players, fans are going to be disappointed by the results. And there's no guarantee that those guys are going to stay 3-4 years. My alma mater is a mid major and up until this season has been relatively immune to the transfer portal. After this season there's several players who are looking to transfer. None of those guys were 5 star recruits. If it can happen to them it can sure happen to UK.

The problem is since Covid this has been Kentuckys tournament record this decade:

2024: First Round loss to 14 seed
2023: Second Round exit
2022: First round exit to 15 seed
2021: Missed tournament completely
2020: Covid

If Bill Self or Duke/Carolina had the past four years Kentucky has don't you think their coaches would be feeling heat? By this logic (not directed at you but ESPN and others) shouldn't UNC have kept Matt Doherty and accepted that they weren't going to win every year? Of course not.

The one and done model isn't working and hasn't, but Cal was prepared to run it back next year with more one and done. Even in 2022 when they lost to St Peters that team was built with the transfer portal (Oscar, Toppin, Mintz) and they still lost early in the tournament. At some point you start blaming the coach. It isn't working though because they are playing teams who are mixing one and dones, grad transfers, and two to three year players. Perfect example of this is UConn.

This past year was Cals year to break through again. They had a monster recruiting class on par with the 2012, 2010, and 2014/2015 classes and the emergence of a Kentucky legacy player who was probably one of the most beloved one year players on this team and he still couldn't get it done. Then they fell apart in the tournament again.

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[Big Red Smokey]

Scott Drew doesn't excite me but if that's the floor then UK is going to be just fine

Make them say no:
Dan Hurley
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Would be my choice and the buyout is rumored to only be $10 mil:
Nate Oats

Floor:
Scott Drew
Bruce Pearl

[Cahill]

Kinda hate to see Cal go, but two straight first round losses to 15-16 seeds is gonna put any coach on thin ice. His press conferences were pretty entertaining though. I've read of several possible replacements that I think would be good, but god, please don't let it be Nate Oats or Bruce Pearl. Just personal, I guess.

[WVRed]

Don't see this happening but can you imagine if Kentucky does circle back to Pitino?

People are talking about Cal coming back to Rupp next season to face the Cats, can you imagine Pitino having to go back to Louisville the following year?

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[WVRed]

Dan Hurley and Nate Oats have publicly turned it down.

Pete Thamel is listing Scott Drew as the favorite.

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[Big Red Smokey]

I mean what else do you expect Hurley to say at that moment? You have to at least offer him to force UCONN to pay him more. Plus the conference uneasiness with UCONN moving forward and I don't think it's dead yet.

Roy Williams said he didn't give a **** about UNC and then went there
Hurley said he wasn't leaving Rhode Island and 5 days later was at UCONN.

Oats I'm assuming heard through the grapevine he wasn't on the list so just got out in front of it.

[WVRed]

I mean what else do you expect Hurley to say at that moment? You have to at least offer him to force UCONN to pay him more. Plus the conference uneasiness with UCONN moving forward and I don't think it's dead yet.

Roy Williams said he didn't give a **** about UNC and then went there
Hurley said he wasn't leaving Rhode Island and 5 days later was at UCONN.

Oats I'm assuming heard through the grapevine he wasn't on the list so just got out in front of it.

I think if Purdue had won last night it would have been easier to lure Hurley away.

He's this generations Billy Donovan. Won back to back titles by catching lightning in a bottle. He has the potential to do more but time will tell.

It could happen I'm just not betting on it.

Scott Drew just seems too vanilla for me. He isn't going to generate buzz or excitement the way Cal (or 90s Pitino) did but the trade off is you don't have the baggage. He's Tubby Smith.

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[Ky Fried Redleg]

Scott Drew doesn't excite me but if that's the floor then UK is going to be just fine

Make them say no:
Dan Hurley
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Would be my choice and the buyout is rumored to only be $10 mil:
Nate Oats

Floor:
Scott Drew
Bruce Pearl



This is pretty much me, as well. Make Hurley, Donovan( or Wright) an offer they can't refuse. As much as I dislike the sleazy Pearl, I'd take him over the preacher's son in Waco.

[Boston Red]

the preacher's son

I'm not sure why you want to keep disrespecting the great Homer Drew!

[Ky Fried Redleg]

I think if Purdue had won last night it would have been easier to lure Hurley away.

He's this generations Billy Donovan. Won back to back titles by catching lightning in a bottle. He has the potential to do more but time will tell.

It could happen I'm just not betting on it.

Scott Drew just seems too vanilla for me. He isn't going to generate buzz or excitement the way Cal (or 90s Pitino) did but the trade off is you don't have the baggage. He's Tubby Smith.

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No Drew, please. Other than his one Naty, his results haven't been that great. Let him stick to teaching Sunday School in Waco. That's what he enjoys most.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

I'm not sure why you want to keep disrespecting the great Homer Drew!

Less than .550 career winning %, Almost 20% of his seasons were under .300 WP. Cal won 77% of his games at UK. UK can do better than a Drew. Homer's kid, outside of the Naty, has been pretty pedestrian.

We need a Donovan or Hurley.

[Chip R]

The problem is since Covid this has been Kentuckys tournament record this decade:

2024: First Round loss to 14 seed
2023: Second Round exit
2022: First round exit to 15 seed
2021: Missed tournament completely
2020: Covid

If Bill Self or Duke/Carolina had the past four years Kentucky has don't you think their coaches would be feeling heat? By this logic (not directed at you but ESPN and others) shouldn't UNC have kept Matt Doherty and accepted that they weren't going to win every year? Of course not.

The one and done model isn't working and hasn't, but Cal was prepared to run it back next year with more one and done. Even in 2022 when they lost to St Peters that team was built with the transfer portal (Oscar, Toppin, Mintz) and they still lost early in the tournament. At some point you start blaming the coach. It isn't working though because they are playing teams who are mixing one and dones, grad transfers, and two to three year players. Perfect example of this is UConn.

This past year was Cals year to break through again. They had a monster recruiting class on par with the 2012, 2010, and 2014/2015 classes and the emergence of a Kentucky legacy player who was probably one of the most beloved one year players on this team and he still couldn't get it done. Then they fell apart in the tournament again.

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I'm not saying the marriage between Cal and UK should have continued. It did seem like they should have parted ways. What I'm saying is that one of the criticisms of Cal was that he recruited too many one and done players. Basically he was bringing in too many great HS players. Do you realize how insane that sounds? Even when they did get transfers in they weren't successful. Ultimately it is the coach's fault. But I also think UK fans have unreasonable expectations of their program. UK became UK when the rest of the SEC was concentrating on football. It was also in a segregated time. Back when Rupp was the coach when you went to the NCAA tournament, you and 7 other teams went. So you had to just win 3 games for a national championship not the gauntlet they go through now. Another thing you have to remember about Cal is that he could handle the pressure cooker. Could you imagine someone like Fran McCaffrey coaching UK? So the new coach has to be able to handle this pressure. But, also, UK fans should lower their expectations. I referenced Indiana previously. For sure UK is in a better situation than them and even Louisville. But they are an elite program in name only much like Indiana and Louisville. Can they get back to that status? I suppose any school with enough money can.

[Boston Red]

Less than .550 career winning %, Almost 20% of his seasons were under .300 WP.

You realize Dad Drew was coaching Valpo, right?

[WVRed]

Less than .550 career winning %, Almost 20% of his seasons were under .300 WP. Cal won 77% of his games at UK. UK can do better than a Drew. Homer's kid, outside of the Naty, has been pretty pedestrian.

We need a Donovan or Hurley.You do realize the mess that he cleaned up at Baylor, right? That's why his winning percentage (plus playing in the Big 12) is as low as it was early on.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_basketball_scandal

He's not my first choice but given the choices Mitch could do a lot worse.

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[WVRed]

Cal has yet to officially resign from Kentucky so that is affecting Kentucky actually looking at replacements.

Top three are Hurley, Drew, and Donovan and if they say no then moving onto other candidates per Matt Jones.

Of those three, I want Donovan the least. He hasn't coached with NIL and the transfer portal and at least with the other two they can hit the ground running on recruiting. Drew would possibly bring Edgecomb with him and Hurley could probably bring whoever he wants. Donovan doesn't have that coming from the NBA.

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[Slyder]

Scott Drew doesn't excite me but if that's the floor then UK is going to be just fine

Make them say no:
Dan Hurley
Jay Wright
Billy Donovan

Would be my choice and the buyout is rumored to only be $10 mil:
Nate Oats

Floor:
Scott Drew
Bruce Pearl

I hear Huggins is still interested in coaching again.

[Chip R]

Cal has yet to officially resign from Kentucky so that is affecting Kentucky actually looking at replacements.


That's fairly petty. :laugh:

[Boston Red]

Calipari just put a video on X that is essentially a resignation. Still weird.

[WVRed]

Cal actually went back to Kentucky for them to match Arkansas in terms of NIL investment and Mitch told him no.

Video is out by Cal saying goodbye and Mitch put out a statement, time to move on.

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[RedTeamGo!]

Dan Hurley is 1000% not coming to Kentucky, folks.

[WVRed]

Dan Hurley is 1000% not coming to Kentucky, folks.Didn't say he was. Would love to see it but as Ive said before, Hurley is this generations Billy Donovan from 15-17 years ago. He's the golden goose.

I don't see Donovan coming either and he's the last one I want of the three mentioned. He's too far removed from college to where NIL and the transfer portal didn't exist when he was here.

I'm actually fine with Scott Drew. If he rejects it then it'll be a B list coach who I don't think the fans will accept.

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[Sea Ray]

So is Cal letting UK off the hook for his buyout? Why would he do that?

- - - Updated - - -


Didn't say he was. Would love to see it but as Ive said before, Hurley is this generations Billy Donovan from 15-17 years ago. He's the golden goose.

I don't see Donovan coming either and he's the last one I want of the three mentioned. He's too far removed from college to where NIL and the transfer portal didn't exist when he was here.

I'm actually fine with Scott Drew. If he rejects it then it'll be a B list coach who I don't think the fans will accept.

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Is Oats a B list coach?

[WVRed]

So is Cal letting UK off the hook for his buyout? Why would he do that?Cal overplayed his hand.

After he lost to Oakland he and Mitch Barnhart had a sit down meeting where Cal would come back but wouldn't be able to operate on an island like he has in the past.

When Arkansas reached out and he started talking to them he breached the contract. He thought he had more support within UK than he actually did and when he tried to counter offer to get UK to increase its NIL funding they told him to kick rocks.

By leaving for Arkansas he's giving up his buyout. If he had backed out Barnhart would have fired him for cause.

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[Slyder]

So is Cal letting UK off the hook for his buyout? Why would he do that?

- - - Updated - - -



Is Oats a B list coach?

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/john-calipari-departs-kentucky-15-184627085.html

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — John Calipari is stepping down as Kentucky's men's basketball coach after 15 years, saying Tuesday that the “program probably needs to hear another voice”...

He's hit a wall as he's going to do there in this environment. He's probably tired of all the spotlights in the town where he looks at someone cross-eyed it makes the news. Arkansas while still a major program doesn't quite have that level of "meddling" (for a lack of a better word). Arkansas is also probably paying close to what he was making at UK without the buyout. This is his last hurrah (he's 65) before he probably rides off to join Krzyzewski, Boehim, Belein, and others in retirement. I figure he'll be there 5 years or less and have more slack than he had at UK at this point.

[WVRed]

So is Cal letting UK off the hook for his buyout? Why would he do that?

- - - Updated - - -



Is Oats a B list coach?Oats isn't going anywhere. He's already came out and said he's not interested. Kinda like "Rick Barnes has removed himself from consideration" although he never got an offer back in 2007.

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[WVRed]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/john-calipari-departs-kentucky-15-184627085.html

LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — John Calipari is stepping down as Kentucky's men's basketball coach after 15 years, saying Tuesday that the “program probably needs to hear another voice”...

He's hit a wall as he's going to do there in this environment. He's probably tired of all the spotlights in the town where he looks at someone cross-eyed it makes the news. Arkansas while still a major program doesn't quite have that level of "meddling" (for a lack of a better word). Arkansas is also probably paying close to what he was making at UK without the buyout. This is his last hurrah (he's 65) before he probably rides off to join Krzyzewski, Boehim, Belein, and others in retirement. I figure he'll be there 5 years or less and have more slack than he had at UK at this point.

He's actually making less. From what I've read his contract is incentive based but the difference is what Arkansas is offering in NIL. They have major boosters in the Tyson family, Walton Family, and Jerry Jones.

Cal won't have as much pressure because Arkansas is more football crazy. That said, Cal has always said at Kentucky how we are everyone's Super Bowl, next year's Kentucky game will be his.

I think Cal will come out on fire at Arkansas and will take any holdover from Lexington who isn't going pro. He's going to have a chip on his shoulder and is going to be trying to prove everyone wrong. He will do great there and it's going to be hard to watch especially if Kentucky struggles next season.



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[WVRed]

It's looking like Scott Drew:

https://www.on3.com/college/kentucky-wildcats/news/scott-drew-kentucky-targeting-next-head-coach-john-calipari-replacement-baylor/

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[Ky Fried Redleg]

Didn't say he was. Would love to see it but as Ive said before, Hurley is this generations Billy Donovan from 15-17 years ago. He's the golden goose.

I don't see Donovan coming either and he's the last one I want of the three mentioned. He's too far removed from college to where NIL and the transfer portal didn't exist when he was here.

I'm actually fine with Scott Drew. If he rejects it then it'll be a B list coach who I don't think the fans will accept.

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BBN are literally losing their freaking minds on social media, thinking it's gonna be Drew. They hate the thoughts if him in Lexington. Some are even saying their done with UK if Drew comes here. As much as I dislike Bruce Pearl, I'd take him over Drew without hesitating.

[Boston Red]

I'm not really sure why anyone would "freak out" about Scott Drew. Weird.

I'm kind of freaking out about having a likeable coach at Kentucky for like the second time in my lifetime (Tubby Smith).

[WVRed]

BBN are literally losing their freaking minds on social media, thinking it's gonna be Drew. They hate the thoughts if him in Lexington. Some are even saying their done with UK if Drew comes here. As much as I dislike Bruce Pearl, I'd take him over Drew without hesitating.The ones losing their minds are the bandwagon fans for the last 15 years. They thought the program was built entirely by Cal.

I saw it at WVU when RichRod left. The younger generation was spoiled by the success of that team and anything that has happened recently hasn't been up to par. The older fans who were there through Nehlen were more reasonable than the younger generation.

That's where I'm afraid Kentucky is going to be. The older fans who wanted change got it and will be more patient while the younger generation is going to want to get back to 2010-2019 ASAP.

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[jrdunnit]

I haven't been enamored with the thought of Drew but if he gets it, I will still be as big a fan as ever. I guess I am guilty over the years , dating back to Joe B, of always wanting the homerun or in other words "the big name". Guys Like Lute Olsen, Bobby Cremins and Pat Riley were some of my hopefuls back in the day. In this situation, I was thinking Billy D coming back to college would be a perfect fit. Last night , he gave a news conference saying he was committed to his team while adding he hasn't been contacted by anyone.
So it is definitely looking more like Drew who could end up being the perfect fit. Who knows...

[cumberlandreds]

I don't see anything wrong with Drew. He totally rebuilt a program that was a disaster. Won a national championship and has them in the running for it every year now. Sure he may not work out in the end but I'm not sure UK could get anyone better right now.

I think Cal will initially do well at Arkansas but I can see him fading away down there after the first couple of seasons. I'm sure they will blow UK away next year as he will have much better players. He will take everyone with him plus add some transfers.

I hope Drew can bring some players with him or next season will be pretty awful.

[WildcatFan]

Drew would be the first hire in Kentucky history who has already won a championship. Pretty wild to be let down if they get him.

[WVRed]

I can see why Drew would be a letdown but I can also see why it would be a good thing.

The letdown is he's not Cal. Or at least the version of Cal that fans loved. He doesn't have the ego that Cal and before that Pitino had where they were going to come to your court and beat you. He isn't going to be producing NBA talent like crazy like Cal did and having celebrities in the building like Cal did.

The good part is he is a better in game coach than Cal is. He will also attempt to develop 2-3 year players with a one and done mixed in.

Something that I know Ky Fried Redleg has poked at that is a difference is that Drew is extremely religious. That could be something that could play well with Kentucky fans. Not going to go too far off the rails but it could bring back a part of the fanbase that was alienated by Cal and past practices.

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[Big Red Smokey]

Legend - Caretaker - Drunk is the UK model. Drew fits

Rupp - Hall - Sutton
Pitino - Tubby - Gillespie
Cal - Drew? - ????

[plantmanky]

Sean Miller will be UK next coach.

[WVRed]

Legend - Caretaker - Drunk is the UK model. Drew fits

Rupp - Hall - Sutton
Pitino - Tubby - Gillespie
Cal - Drew? - ????This is kinda why I want Drew:

1. We need a break from drama. Drew would be a change of pace from that. So yeah, I'm fine with a care taker.

2. Outside of Dan Hurley, there is no legend status coach available, which leads to...

3. If a legend status coach becomes available in the next three years and Drew underachieves, get the wheels moving to move on. (I know it's a five year contract but with a reasonable buyout Kentucky could move on)

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[Big Red Smokey]

^ Yep. I just want to enjoy UK basketball again.

[WVRed]

Watched Cals introductory pep rally and press conference at Arkansas. It was awkward to say the least.

He ducked out to meet the other coaches when the fans were doing the Woo Pig Sooey chant.

Was pretty gracious about his time at Kentucky but the comment about Coaches Win Games and Administrations Win Championships was a direct dig at Barnhart.

Given the Athletic story today it's pretty obvious there was a love loss between the two.

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[Sea Ray]

Watched Cals introductory pep rally and press conference at Arkansas. It was awkward to say the least.

He ducked out to meet the other coaches when the fans were doing the Woo Pig Sooey chant.

Was pretty gracious about his time at Kentucky but the comment about Coaches Win Games and Administrations Win Championships was a direct dig at Barnhart.

Given the Athletic story today it's pretty obvious there was a love loss between the two.

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Kinda had a Knight to Texas Tech feel

[WVRed]

Kinda had a Knight to Texas Tech feelThat's a very good analogy.

I thought him leaving would be a boost for Arkansas and short term it might be but after last night I'm wondering if he makes it through the contract. Either he retires or Arkansas buys him out when they realize it's not working.

I just don't feel like his heart is in it. He overplayed his hand in Lexington but ultimately wouldn't make changes. He's a massive control freak and when Mitch supposedly told him that he wasn't going to be on his own island anymore I think that led to where we are now. Arkansas will be good this year because they are taking all the Kentucky players with them but after they leave? It will be interesting. Cal hasn't recruited at the same level except for this past years class.

Another dig I noticed was bringing up how he loved the governor. A story that has been leaked out is that the Craft family wanted to use Oscar Tshiebwe for NIL purposes to help with Kelly Crafts run for governor and Calipari stepped in and said no. That ruined that relationship. Plus the "basketball school" comment in the Bahamas.

All signs point to Scott Drew. If it's not it'll be because of the stupidity of our fans tracking planes, stalking Mexican restaurants in Waco, getting into Twitter fights with Chip Gaines scaring off his family. Cal always said "You people are crazy" and egged it on. This time it's not a compliment.

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[Boston Red]

Sean Miller will be UK next coach.

I'll take the under.

[WVRed]

I'll take the under.Yeah, that's not happening.



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[WVRed]

Drew just turned it down.

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[Boston Red]

Oh man, Drew better stay off social media for...the rest of his life. The weird hate and anger he's about to experience is real.

[Chip R]

Oh man, Drew better stay off social media for...the rest of his life. The weird hate and anger he's about to experience is real.

So, that would have been different if he took the job and didn't do any better than Cal?

[Boston Red]

So, that would have been different if he took the job and didn't do any better than Cal?

It would have been different, yes. Not great, either, but different.

Just go ahead and bring back Pitino at this point!

[WVRed]

Oh man, Drew better stay off social media for...the rest of his life. The weird hate and anger he's about to experience is real.
It would have been different, yes. Not great, either, but different.

Just go ahead and bring back Pitino at this point!Pitino isn't happening. Not directed at you but I'm amazed at how many UK friends of mine still live in the 90s.

I don't think he's going to have any social media following other than people just unfollowing him. He didn't want to uproot his family which is understandable. Watching UK fans act like lunatics probably didn't help either.

Not to mention the fanbase was pretty divided on him being the presumed pick. As I said earlier there are still some who want Pitino and of course Donovan out of nostalgia but Drew was viewed as a pretty boring hire.

Today is going to be Make Danny Hurley Say No Day. He is going to say no, but it won't be for lack of trying by Kentucky.

Kentucky is moving to B list candidates past Donovan. Next Wednesday or Friday the Bulls season could be over but Kentucky will probably be getting feelers for other candidates:

Sean Miller
Chris Beard
Shaka Smart
Brad Underwood
Frank Vogel

There's also another NBA coach being mentioned but don't have the name.



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[Chip R]

A name that no one has brought up who would be an interesting choice is T.J. Otzelberger at Iowa State. I think ISU plays the kind of style UK fans would love and they play great defense. His buyout is $17.5M. Would that be too expensive for UK? If they did hire him, his assistant Kyle Green (Milwaukee Bucks A.J. Green's father) may not follow him and he has really made their defense great. If he doesn't follow Otz, the defense may not be as good as it can be. Green was the associate head coach at Northern Iowa before he want to ISU and I know the defense at UNI has not been as good as it was when he was there.

[WVRed]

A name that no one has brought up who would be an interesting choice is T.J. Otzelberger at Iowa State. I think ISU plays the kind of style UK fans would love and they play great defense. His buyout is $17.5M. Would that be too expensive for UK? If they did hire him, his assistant Kyle Green (Milwaukee Bucks A.J. Green's father) may not follow him and he has really made their defense great. If he doesn't follow Otz, the defense may not be as good as it can be. Green was the associate head coach at Northern Iowa before he want to ISU and I know the defense at UNI has not been as good as it was when he was there.They wouldn't pay it for Nate Oats but there are other rumors coming out why Oats isn't in play. Not going to post but anyone on social media can look it up.

Id say just unfamiliarity with Otzelberger, the buyout, and being at Iowa State the majority of his coaching career he seems to like it there. Just my opinion.

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[Boston Red]

Pitino isn't happening. Not directed at you but I'm amazed at how many UK friends of mine still live in the 90s.



I'm kidding about Pitino, of course. It would just be hilarious.

[dabvu2498]

Is style of play a complete non-starter when it comes to Tony Bennett or is there something else?

[Chip R]

They wouldn't pay it for Nate Oats but there are other rumors coming out why Oats isn't in play. Not going to post but anyone on social media can look it up.

Id say just unfamiliarity with Otzelberger, the buyout, and being at Iowa State the majority of his coaching career he seems to like it there. Just my opinion.

From what I've heard he does like it there. But coaches don't go to another job only when they are unhappy. Sometimes you'll get a guy who is happy where he's at and will never leave voluntarily like Izzo and Dean Smith. Other guys like Cal and Pitino want to climb that ladder. ISU is a relatively low pressure job. Iowa has always been the big dog in the state and gets most of the attention but when ISU does well, they get just as much attention. He's not really a "name" but the "names" don't want to coach there.

[bucksfan2]

I am not so sure that UK is the job it was when Cal took it over a decade ago. The seismic shifts if the game have changed the landscape of college basketball. Where UK had a massive advantage when Cal was originally hired, that just isn't so true anymore. While I don't doubt that basketball means more to UK than pretty much any other school in the game, they no longer have the advantage they once had. And if their NIL is behind, which I don't know, they are at a detriment compared to other schools.

15 years ago Baylor was a job where you would leave for bigger job when it became available. Now its easier to win there, the schools are more inclined to pay more money to keep the coaches, and there is a level of comfort that a guy like Drew can have coaching at Baylor. Not to mention the frying pan he would jump into at UK. With the new TV contracts, especially for the SEC and B1G, schools can afford to pay their coaches more and keep them for longer.

[WVRed]

I am not so sure that UK is the job it was when Cal took it over a decade ago. The seismic shifts if the game have changed the landscape of college basketball. Where UK had a massive advantage when Cal was originally hired, that just isn't so true anymore. While I don't doubt that basketball means more to UK than pretty much any other school in the game, they no longer have the advantage they once had. And if their NIL is behind, which I don't know, they are at a detriment compared to other schools.

15 years ago Baylor was a job where you would leave for bigger job when it became available. Now its easier to win there, the schools are more inclined to pay more money to keep the coaches, and there is a level of comfort that a guy like Drew can have coaching at Baylor. Not to mention the frying pan he would jump into at UK. With the new TV contracts, especially for the SEC and B1G, schools can afford to pay their coaches more and keep them for longer.

From what I've read money is fine. It just wasn't for Cal. He burned a lot of bridges and there are a lot of stories coming out that nobody is denying.

For Joe Craft, whos name is on the UK practice facility building, to pull NIL funding for Cal because of these issues is why Cal is in Arkansas now.

Kentucky just offered Dan Hurley 8 yrs and between 90-100 million. UConn was never going to match that financially and he turned it down. So yeah, to your point you are right.

The problems with Kentucky right now are two fold with a split fanbase:

1. Those who favored Cal and want a home run hire. It's kinda like when Dan Lanning and Sark turned down Bama. Those fans are in panic mode.

2. You have the older fans who have been through the Tubby and Pitino years who remember life before Cal. Those fans know that Kentucky is going to be fine.

The problem is past the Big Three (and Im not crazy about Donovan) there is not a coach in the next tier that doesn't have problems. Honestly only Dan Hurley would have been a home run hire and that was never happening.

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[WVRed]

Mark Pope has entered the chat.

If this happens, Barnhart might become the most hated man in Lexington.

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[Assembly Hall]

From what I've heard he does like it there. But coaches don't go to another job only when they are unhappy. Sometimes you'll get a guy who is happy where he's at and will never leave voluntarily like Izzo and Dean Smith. Other guys like Cal and Pitino want to climb that ladder. ISU is a relatively low pressure job. Iowa has always been the big dog in the state and gets most of the attention but when ISU does well, they get just as much attention. He's not really a "name" but the "names" don't want to coach there.

Didn't Iowa St. lure Johnny Orr away from Michigan once upon a time?

[WildcatFan]

Mark Pope. That’s…..a choice.

Actually, you know what? I’m in. Good guy.

[Tuff Nut]

Mark Pope. That’s…..a choice.

Actually, you know what? I’m in. Good guy.

Right now, who actually else is out there? I am good with it. Played at UK, and IIRC graduated, did time in the NBA, so knows what it takes. He could actually get Sheppard to stick around, given his ties to Jeff. Then who knows? Some others may follow Reed?

[RedTeamGo!]

Pope is interesting. Kinda perfect for the guy after Cal. Kinda like Ollie at UCONN after Calhoun (I know that blew up eventually) but then they hired a big time coach after that. Pope can keep the boat afloat, coach for a few years and if it comes tumbling down make a big time hire. It’s not like Kentucky is going to suddenly become St John’s or Georgetown.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Right now, who actually else is out there? I am good with it. Played at UK, and IIRC graduated, did time in the NBA, so knows what it takes. He could actually get Sheppard to stick around, given his ties to Jeff. Then who knows? Some others may follow Reed?

Yeah, Mark averaged a sterling 1.9 ppg in the pros. As coach, he has been mighty impressive , as well. Double digit losses in 7 of his 9 seasons. First round loss to Duquesne this season. Finished 5th to Santa Clara two seasons ago. Averaged 12 losses a season over career. Believes in wearing sacred magic underwear. Never takes it off except to bathe. Believes that God lives near a planet called Kolob. Is about be paid a salary that eclipses the salaries of each of these coaches:

Dan Hurley
- Nate Oats
- Scott Drew
- Tom Izzo
- Matt Painter
- Mark Few
- Hubert Davis
- Tommy Lloyd



SIGN ME UP!!!! :mooner: Oh yeah, 0 NCAA tiurnament wins !!!! Mitch is the boss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KronoRed]

SIGN ME UP!!!! :mooner: Oh yeah, 0 NCAA tiurnament wins !!!! Mitch is the boss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't forget 4 CBI wins.

[WVRed]

Pope is interesting. Kinda perfect for the guy after Cal. Kinda like Ollie at UCONN after Calhoun (I know that blew up eventually) but then they hired a big time coach after that. Pope can keep the boat afloat, coach for a few years and if it comes tumbling down make a big time hire. It’s not like Kentucky is going to suddenly become St John’s or Georgetown.I'm thinking more along the lines of Matt Doherty after Dean Smith/Bill Guthridge.

Pope may be a great guy and he did play on the teams from the 90s. I think Barnhart thought he had Drew in the bag and when that fell through he panicked.

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[Kilgore_Trout]

My mom went to BYU and I grew up a Mormon until about 16. So BYU has always been my #2 college team to follow in both football and basketball (behind Ohio State).

Mark Pope is a good coach. Knows how to build a program and run his system. His team outperformed expectations in their first season in a tough Big 12 after coming over from the WCC. These aren’t the big time recruits he’ll now have access to at Kentucky, either.

They never did much in the tournament, I know. But he will be good. My brother and I have known for a few seasons now that if/when the Kentucky job opened up, we might lose him. A tough pill to swallow, but we accepted it is a near certainty. Now it’s happened, and I wish him luck.

Give him a chance. I really think he will do well.

[WVRed]

My mom went to BYU and I grew up a Mormon until about 16. So BYU has always been my #2 college team to follow in both football and basketball (behind Ohio State).

Mark Pope is a good coach. Knows how to build a program and run his system. His team outperformed expectations in their first season in a tough Big 12 after coming over from the WCC. These aren’t the big time recruits he’ll now have access to at Kentucky, either.

They never did much in the tournament, I know. But he will be good. My brother and I have known for a few seasons now that if/when the Kentucky job opened up, we might lose him. A tough pill to swallow, but we accepted it is a near certainty. Now it’s happened, and I wish him luck.

Give him a chance. I really think he will do well.

I'm warming up slowly to it but I have some reservations.

I think they should have brought Pitino in for two years and Pope in as associate head coach. I don't know if both would have agreed to it but Pitino could have handled the boosters, used his connections to bring players in, and likely set up Pope in two years for better success.

Mitch went rogue from all accounts. If the boosters aren't happy the NIL money moving forward could be an issue.

That said I don't know if Kentucky could have done much better.

Biggest key is Reed Sheppard returning. Pope and Jeff were roommates at UK so this will be something to watch in the coming days.

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[WildcatFan]

Mark Pope is extremely smart, passionate, and loves the program. It's yet to be seen how he can recruit, but I don't even know what recruiting means anymore in 2024. He's gonna get a war chest of NIL money to play with; let's see how that goes.

Honestly, I like the Pitino idea if he came in as a GM-like figure, which is probably the next step for college basketball. It's a lot on a coach to handle in this era between NIL, the portal, traditional recruiting, and Xs and Os (as we saw with Cal).

[dubc47834]

I get a good chuckle when people bring up Petino going back to UK...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Tuff Nut]

I get a good chuckle when people bring up Petino going back to UK...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Don't let the meatball roll under the table.

[dubc47834]

Don't let the meatball roll under the table.

:thumbup: I'll try!

[WVRed]

Mark Pope is extremely smart, passionate, and loves the program. It's yet to be seen how he can recruit, but I don't even know what recruiting means anymore in 2024. He's gonna get a war chest of NIL money to play with; let's see how that goes.

Honestly, I like the Pitino idea if he came in as a GM-like figure, which is probably the next step for college basketball. It's a lot on a coach to handle in this era between NIL, the portal, traditional recruiting, and Xs and Os (as we saw with Cal).

I've actually read suggestions for Nazr Mohammed. I could really get behind it if that happens.

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[Slyder]

I get a good chuckle when people bring up Petino going back to UK...:laugh::laugh::laugh:

It's no different with WVU "fans" wanting Rich Rod back. Nothing any coach ever does will satiate their desire to bring back RR. Even though many have tried to explain why it would be absolutely stupid for them to do so.

[WVRed]

It's no different with WVU "fans" wanting Rich Rod back. Nothing any coach ever does will satiate their desire to bring back RR. Even though many have tried to explain why it would be absolutely stupid for them to do so.

In the situation i described I think it would have worked. Pope is going to be walking into a mess that never should have happened.

Trust me, my Facebook feed has been littered with friends of mine in Northeast Kentucky who wanted Pitino back and no one else.

I posted earlier in this thread but the UK fan base is split like WVU football has been since RichRod left. You have a generation who grew up during the 2010-2015 era and they want to get back to that just like the mid 2000s WVU football fans.

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[KeefeCato]

Mark and I have a mutual friend. I have met Mark. He is one of the nicest humblest guys I've met.
He absolutely loves Kentucky. He will work tirelessly. If you can win at BYU with those recruiting restrictions you can absolutely win big at Kentucky. He will be able to recruit on a completely different level at UK.
Same people that were complaining about being a NBA farm team will now complain if the roster doesn't have ten 5 stars.
I think Mark will have some 5 stars and some one and done players mixed with several 4 stars who will actually stay multiple years. The thing that most of the fan base was screaming for.

[WVRed]

Mark and I have a mutual friend. I have met Mark. He is one of the nicest humblest guys I've met.
He absolutely loves Kentucky. He will work tirelessly. If you can win at BYU with those recruiting restrictions you can absolutely win big at Kentucky. He will be able to recruit on a completely different level at UK.
Same people that were complaining about being a NBA farm team will now complain if the roster doesn't have ten 5 stars.
I think Mark will have some 5 stars and some one and done players mixed with several 4 stars who will actually stay multiple years. The thing that most of the fan base was screaming for.

I've come around the more I've seen. Especially the former players and the Rick Pitino endorsement.

Honestly once it got past Hurley, Drew and Donovan no choice was going to make everyone happy. I think of Chris Beard. Do you think Kentucky fans would have accepted someone who allegedly beat his fiancee? Same with Bruce Pearl and his baggage. Sean Miller did less with more than Calipari ever thought about. Underwood and Smart wouldn't have played a style that fans would have been happy with.

Recruiting and lack of postseason success are my issues but when you consider Duke and UNC went internal and they are fine it's a moot point.



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[KeefeCato]

I've come around the more I've seen. Especially the former players and the Rick Pitino endorsement.

Honestly once it got past Hurley, Drew and Donovan no choice was going to make everyone happy. I think of Chris Beard. Do you think Kentucky fans would have accepted someone who allegedly beat his fiancee? Same with Bruce Pearl and his baggage. Sean Miller did less with more than Calipari ever thought about. Underwood and Smart wouldn't have played a style that fans would have been happy with.

Recruiting and lack of postseason success are my issues but when you consider Duke and UNC went internal and they are fine it's a moot point.



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I don't think they ever considered Pearl or Beard. I just don't think Barnhart would even give those two a thought
I think Pope will recruit fine without the crazy BYU restrictions. Time will tell though. Recruiting would be my only concern. He can coach. Not many BYU teams even make the tournament. So I'm not concerned he hasn't won a tournament game. He was going against much better talented teams in most cases.

[UKFlounder]

Certainly an impressive first impression at the fun press conference. (Yes, "fun press conference" LOL)

[cumberlandreds]

I have been away and hadn't got a chance to comment on Pope's hiring. First off I hope he does very well. I think he could be a breath of fresh air after Cal's salesman job over the last few years. You never know he could turn out to be a great hire. He is just very unproven. He did well at BYU but that isn't the same as UK. He has played here so he should know the pressure he will be under. I am more than willing to give him a long leash to get things in order. Unless he can talk Shepard into staying, next season my be a rough one for him. I am not sure how the fans overall will be patient enough.

Sounded like Barnhart put all his eggs into the Drew basket and then had to settle for plan D with Pope. If Pope is a failure then Barnhart will probably be putting in his retirement papers pretty quickly.

I guess us UK and IU fans should get together for those glory day talks at the local pub. I'm not sure either program is going to see high level success for quite a while now, if ever again.

[WVRed]

I have been away and hadn't got a chance to comment on Pope's hiring. First off I hope he does very well. I think he could be a breath of fresh air after Cal's salesman job over the last few years. You never know he could turn out to be a great hire. He is just very unproven. He did well at BYU but that isn't the same as UK. He has played here so he should know the pressure he will be under. I am more than willing to give him a long leash to get things in order. Unless he can talk Shepard into staying, next season my be a rough one for him. I am not sure how the fans overall will be patient enough.

Sounded like Barnhart put all his eggs into the Drew basket and then had to settle for plan D with Pope. If Pope is a failure then Barnhart will probably be putting in his retirement papers pretty quickly.

I guess us UK and IU fans should get together for those glory day talks at the local pub. I'm not sure either program is going to see high level success for quite a while now, if ever again.

I think Kentucky can get back to it. They will still be able to recruit and will be able to be a player in NIL.

Going from Cal to Pope is like going from a televangelist to the cool youth pastor. The most refreshing part to me is the identity reset. You have someone who is proud of the name of the front of the jersey instead of one who promotes Players First who have no loyalty to the university once they are off to the NBA.

Fans just need to temper expectations. We aren't going to be in on every McDonalds All American and that's fine. It's all about fit. If we can get 1-2 and build the rest through 4 star/3 high three star recruits who will stay more than 1 year and the transfer portal to fill in the rest he will be successful.

Three games next season will define the start. Duke, Louisville, and Arkansas, with the latter two being at home. Louisville might be the easiest of the three.

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[cumberlandreds]

I think Kentucky can get back to it. They will still be able to recruit and will be able to be a player in NIL.

Going from Cal to Pope is like going from a televangelist to the cool youth pastor. The most refreshing part to me is the identity reset. You have someone who is proud of the name of the front of the jersey instead of one who promotes Players First who have no loyalty to the university once they are off to the NBA.

Fans just need to temper expectations. We aren't going to be in on every McDonalds All American and that's fine. It's all about fit. If we can get 1-2 and build the rest through 4 star/3 high three star recruits who will stay more than 1 year and the transfer portal to fill in the rest he will be successful.

Three games next season will define the start. Duke, Louisville, and Arkansas, with the latter two being at home. Louisville might be the easiest of the three.

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Yes it will be refreshing to have a coach put the program first. It didn't take long to be tired of the NBA mentality that Cal promoted. Maybe UKs best day will be a national championship and not a bunch first round picks that couldn't win a tournament game.

[Boston Red]

Louisville might be the easiest of the three.


How could one even speculate at this point? Louisville's got like three players right now. They could be the #1 team in the country or the #300 team. How many players does Kentucky have left themselves? 3 or 4?

Will be a bit easier to tell who is going to have easy games against who in a month or two when we have an idea of who is actually going to play for all of these teams.

[WVRed]

How could one even speculate at this point? Louisville's got like three players right now. They could be the #1 team in the country or the #300 team. How many players does Kentucky have left themselves? 3 or 4?

Will be a bit easier to tell who is going to have easy games against who in a month or two when we have an idea of who is actually going to play for all of these teams.

Two. Just picked up a commitment today from a kid committed to BYU who was doing mission work for two years.

Comparing Louisville, Duke and Arkansas though:

Duke is bringing in the no 1 recruiting class which has the next big prospect in Cooper Flagg, among others. They are being projected to be top 2 with UConn next year. Easy call there.

Arkansas is basically going to be Great Value Kentucky in taking all of the players Cal had last year minus Bradshaw who wouldn't have came back to UK anyways.

You pretty much nailed Louisville on the head. Duke and Arkansas aren't in the same boat though as Kentucky or Louisville right now, it's just full on rebuilding.

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[WVRed]

Couple interesting tidbits:

Kentucky is in on Duke transfer Jeremy Roach, among others.

Kenny Payne is rumored to be on Popes new staff.

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[WVRed]

Cody Fueger coming over from BYU. This one was expected and he is a rising star in coaching supposedly.

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[WVRed]

No Kenny Payne but Orlando Antigua never resigned and is still working for UK.

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[WVRed]

Two. Just picked up a commitment today from a kid committed to BYU who was doing mission work for two years.

Comparing Louisville, Duke and Arkansas though:

Duke is bringing in the no 1 recruiting class which has the next big prospect in Cooper Flagg, among others. They are being projected to be top 2 with UConn next year. Easy call there.

Arkansas is basically going to be Great Value Kentucky in taking all of the players Cal had last year minus Bradshaw who wouldn't have came back to UK anyways.

You pretty much nailed Louisville on the head. Duke and Arkansas aren't in the same boat though as Kentucky or Louisville right now, it's just full on rebuilding.

Sent from my SM-S911U using TapatalkI know what I posted about Duke but man half of that team is in the portal.

Oh, and Reed Sheppard is going pro. Happy for him but disappointed that his only season here was wasted.

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[Assembly Hall]

I know what I posted about Duke but man half of that team is in the portal.

Oh, and Reed Sheppard is going pro. Happy for him but disappointed that his only season here was wasted.

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Got to love the 1 and done.

[WVRed]

Got to love the 1 and done.Don't blame him for not coming back. He isn't going to improve his stock and it's a weak draft. Hoping he lands in San Antonio and gets paired with Wemby.

Btw, forgot to mention, I guess Cal managed to duck going back to Assembly Hall huh?

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[Boston Red]

Kentucky dodged the Kenny Payne bullet.

[cumberlandreds]

Kentucky dodged the Kenny Payne bullet.

I thought he was fine as an assistant. I always felt like probably played the good cop to the players when Cal would be riding them hard. Of course he was a disaster as a head coach.

[cumberlandreds]

Don't blame him for not coming back. He isn't going to improve his stock and it's a weak draft. Hoping he lands in San Antonio and gets paired with Wemby.

Btw, forgot to mention, I guess Cal managed to duck going back to Assembly Hall huh?

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The days of Kentucky matinee idols are over. Ones like Cotton Nash, Kyle Macy and Rex Chapman are relics of the past. I doubt we will ever see a really good player stay more than one year under the current setup. I don't blame Shepard for going pro. He couldn't pass that up.

[Boston Red]

Is the correct term "going pro" anymore? "Going pro-er"?

[cumberlandreds]

Is the correct term "going pro" anymore? "Going pro-er"?

True, more pro is the better term.

[RichRed]

True, more pro is the better term.

“Pro+”

[WVRed]

In other news, Mark Fox (former Georgia coach) and Jason Hart are being named assistants.

Fox and Pope go back to Washington when Fox was an assistant. He most recently was at Georgetown over NIL so hopefully that's his role here.

Hart was recently head coach for G League Ignite and this is being tabbed as a home run hire.

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[WVRed]

Jordan Burks is in the portal. That makes the entire UK roster leaving. Adou Theiro is considering Kentucky but Pitt is more likely.

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[WVRed]

Amari Williams from Drexel commits to Kentucky.

Excellent fit for what Pope wants to do offensively.

Johnell Davis is down to Kentucky and Houston as well.

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[WVRed]

Since the last post:

Alvin Brooks was hired as the final assistant. Another home run hire on the recruiting trail by Pope. He's been largely seen for recruiting five star players to Baylor. Between him and Hart Kentucky will be fine in terms of recruiting.

Players:

Committed:
Amari Williams (PF- Drexel)
LaMont Butler (PG-San Diego St)
Otega Oweh (SG-Oklahoma)
Andrew Carr (PF- Wake Forest)
Brandon Garrison (C- Oklahoma State)

Two things stick out with the players currently committed is that they are all physical and known more for their defense. Garrison was a huge pickup today as he will be a sophomore next season and Kentucky won a head to head matchup with Calipari for his services.

Offense may be coming soon in the form of Koby Brea from Dayton. UConn was long seen to be the favorite but took a commitment from Aidan Mahaney who Kentucky was in on as well and pulled out, leaving Kentucky in the driver's seat.

Great Osobor is currently on a visit but is expected to take others as well. With Carr, Williams and now Garrison front court space may be limited so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

A true PG needs to materialize as LaMont Butler is currently the starter there. Deivion Smith from Utah is being mentioned but grades and transfer credits could be an issue. Johnell Davis (FAU) was considered a possibility as well. Elijah Hawkins (Minnesota) is down to Kentucky and Texas Tech supposedly.

I am way more optimistic seeing the new roster. Honestly with what Cal had coming in next season it was a good year to make a break and do something new.

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[jrdunnit]

I have to say I wasnt originally a fan of the Pope hiring because of wanting a "big name" :rolleyes:
However I hopped on board quickly after the Rupp Conference and seeing his style of play etc. I was really thinking along the lines of Pitino's first year as far as record wise but Pope has really impressed me putting a roster together.
A couple more of the names that WVRED listed and I think we will be just fine for the upcoming season.

[WVRed]

I have to say I wasnt originally a fan of the Pope hiring because of wanting a "big name" :rolleyes:
However I hopped on board quickly after the Rupp Conference and seeing his style of play etc. I was really thinking along the lines of Pitino's first year as far as record wise but Pope has really impressed me putting a roster together.
A couple more of the names that WVRED listed and I think we will be just fine for the upcoming season.I wasn't a fan either but honestly with the way college sports is going I'd rather have an alum similar to Duke/UNC. Someone who is likely going to have long term loyalty to the program as long as they win. Dan Hurley is already being mentioned for the NBA and probably would have left Kentucky for it had he taken the job. Scott Drew's personality I don't think would have fit with the job.

Koby Brea is official today. (Sorry RTG)

Second commit of the day is former WVU and Arizona PG Kerr Kriisa. Not a popular pick from the fans but is another good shooter.

Great Osobor is no longer being considered. Not a surprise with the Garrison commit yesterday.

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[WVRed]

Big local commit today,

Harlan Co SG Trent Noah was let out of his NLI from South Carolina and Pope moved in quickly. Noah and Travis Perry are going to be huge pieces moving forward and would have never been an option under Cal.

Kentucky has some highly rated in state players coming up and keeping them in state will likely be a priority moving forward.

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[jrdunnit]

Big local commit today,

Harlan Co SG Trent Noah was let out of his NLI from South Carolina and Pope moved in quickly. Noah and Travis Perry are going to be huge pieces moving forward and would have never been an option under Cal.

Kentucky has some highly rated in state players coming up and keeping them in state will likely be a priority moving forward.

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Nice pickups by Pope and from the commentary I have read, these will be 2 kids that can develop and contribute as a freshman but really make the step forward as a second year player. Considering we had no players and no coach just a short time ago, Pope has put together what might be a nice competitive (and hopefully very good) team.

[cumberlandreds]

Big local commit today,

Harlan Co SG Trent Noah was let out of his NLI from South Carolina and Pope moved in quickly. Noah and Travis Perry are going to be huge pieces moving forward and would have never been an option under Cal.

Kentucky has some highly rated in state players coming up and keeping them in state will likely be a priority moving forward.

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Noah is from the area I am from. My high school along with two others consolidated to make Harlan County High in 2008. This is really a big deal for the people of that area. Not many have come from Harlan County to play basketball at UK. The last one was Dickie Parsons in the late 50's to early 60's and he later became a longtime assistant for Joe B Hall. Before him was Wah Wah Jones who played on Rupp's first two national champions in the late 40's. I hope Noah does well at UK and makes those folks down there even more proud of him.

[WVRed]

Nice pickups by Pope and from the commentary I have read, these will be 2 kids that can develop and contribute as a freshman but really make the step forward as a second year player. Considering we had no players and no coach just a short time ago, Pope has put together what might be a nice competitive (and hopefully very good) team.They are still a couple players away.

Jaxson Robinson is the one to watch. He's currently in the NBA draft but if he pulls out Kentucky is the odds on favorite. He would be the top scoring option heading into next season if he comes.

Chaz Lanier from North Florida is another. Tennessee has been hot after him but Pope has made a push.

Regarding in state players, Malachi Moreno and Jasper Johnson will be two to watch going into next year. Both are 4 and 5 star recruits who either play for or did play HS in Kentucky.

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[WVRed]

SEC unveils league opponents for Kentucky in 2024-25: https://on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/sec-unveils-league-opponents-for-kentucky-in-2024-25

Of note:

Vanderbilt, Tennessee, and Alabama only teams given home and away. Speaks volumes that Alabama has likely replaced Florida as a rival to us in the eyes of the SEC. Florida comes to Rupp.

Another team coming to Rupp: Calipari University aka Arkansas.

Texas and Oklahoma both are road games.



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[jrdunnit]

FDU forward Ansley Almonor is set to visit KY.
6'7 who was 40% on 3 pointers. He would be a nice pickup if they land him.

This past season, Almonor averaged 16.4 points on 43.6% field-goal shooting (39.4% on 3s), 5.1 rebounds, and 1.7 assists per game. He shot a whopping 7.4 3s per game, as most of his scoring comes from beyond the arc.

[Bourgeois Zee]

At first glance, this looks like a 10-loss Tubby type of roster. Mid-major "stars" with athleticism or shooting questions, defensive players who can't shoot, and offensive stars who can't defend. The Cats are depending on veteran mid-major guys similar to how Calipari depended on Tshiebwe and Frederick in 2023, Tshiebwe, Grady, Wheeler, and Mintz in 2022, and Sarr and Mintz in 2021. (Only moreso.) Those teams began the slide from which Kentucky is attempting to extricate itself.

Kentucky fans are getting excited about getting a transfer from Farlieigh Dickinson. Their best player is the 6th man for a good Dayton team. (But Dayton.)

The lack of talent on this roster (again, at first glance) seems really, really bad-- especially considering how stacked it was just a month before.

[WVRed]

At first glance, this looks like a 10-loss Tubby type of roster. Mid-major "stars" with athleticism or shooting questions, defensive players who can't shoot, and offensive stars who can't defend. The Cats are depending on veteran mid-major guys similar to how Calipari depended on Tshiebwe and Frederick in 2023, Tshiebwe, Grady, Wheeler, and Mintz in 2022, and Sarr and Mintz in 2021. (Only moreso.) Those teams began the slide from which Kentucky is attempting to extricate itself.

Kentucky fans are getting excited about getting a transfer from Farlieigh Dickinson. Their best player is the 6th man for a good Dayton team. (But Dayton.)

The lack of talent on this roster (again, at first glance) seems really, really bad-- especially considering how stacked it was just a month before.

It's no longer about talent as much as it's about fit. That is something Kentucky fans are going to have to get used to instead of winning in May/June (recruiting) vs winning in March. Pope runs a hybrid of 90s Pitino full court press and Nate Oats live and die by the three.

Keep in mind it's only for this year. Cal left at a time when the recruiting class was filled except for Liam McNeely. I think most fans are giving Pope a pass for this year despite what he says. Trent Noah and Travis Perry (who Cal told to look elsewhere but still committed) are future pieces who will likely be fixtures beyond this season. Add in state players such as Jasper Johnson and Malachi Moreno and the future is more promising in a post-Calipari era.

Alomor is a solid bench piece but they are still trying to land Chaz Lanier and Jaxson Robinson. Those two would likely be the star pieces on next year's team.

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[jrdunnit]

As I said in an earlier post, transitioning from Cal to Pope, I was expecting a season similar to Pitino's first year. I figured sub 500 back then and alot of beatdowns. Tallest player was 6'8. Pitino took the Farmers, Hansons and Pelphreys etc and with his style of play and made a fun team to watch at 500. After that season, things took off.
Pope started with nothing and has really impressed me. I feel like they should be a better team than anyone was expecting a few weeks ago but as WV said, at least one of the two players left in portal would be more than likely be the star.
I will add, while listening to a BB show last night (not a UK show), one person said while KY's starting 5 might not be nowhere near the top, he said they may have the best 1-12 players. No great stars but a roster of full of good to very good players.
If Pope can blend them together in his system, then it could be a pretty fun season.
I definitely am not expecting a Final Four this year but I think Pope can make the transition from Cal a fun year and then as he gets more to fit his system, hopefully we can start winning a game or two in the NCAA tourney. :)

[WVRed]

As I said in an earlier post, transitioning from Cal to Pope, I was expecting a season similar to Pitino's first year. I figured sub 500 back then and alot of beatdowns. Tallest player was 6'8. Pitino took the Farmers, Hansons and Pelphreys etc and with his style of play and made a fun team to watch at 500. After that season, things took off.
Pope started with nothing and has really impressed me. I feel like they should be a better team than anyone was expecting a few weeks ago but as WV said, at least one of the two players left in portal would be more than likely be the star.
I will add, while listening to a BB show last night (not a UK show), one person said while KY's starting 5 might not be nowhere near the top, he said they may have the best 1-12 players. No great stars but a roster of full of good to very good players.
If Pope can blend them together in his system, then it could be a pretty fun season.
I definitely am not expecting a Final Four this year but I think Pope can make the transition from Cal a fun year and then as he gets more to fit his system, hopefully we can start winning a game or two in the NCAA tourney. :)

Eventually I see this being the method:

1-2 Burger Boys
Mix of 3 to 4 star players
Top in state players
Transfer Portal to round it out.

This is the model by UConn which was also a model by the 90s Pitino teams. Kentucky won't be as talented as Calipari coached teams but Xs and Os they will be improved.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Eventually I see this being the method:

1-2 Burger Boys
Mix of 3 to 4 star players
Top in state players
Transfer Portal to round it out.

This is the model by UConn which was also a model by the 90s Pitino teams. Kentucky won't be as talented as Calipari coached teams but Xs and Os they will be improved.

There is no evidence of the latter.

Pope hasn't ever won an NCAA game.

He's only coached against top competition for one season-- and BYU came in 5th in the Big XII, with 8 losses. (They had 11 losses overall.)

The optimism amongst most of the UK fanbase is palpable, but it's entirely narrative-based.

UK's defense last season was better than Pope's.
UK's offense was as good as Pope's.

Personally, if given the choice (and we absolutely were given that choice), I'm choosing talent. Any other choice is, IMO, lining up for 10 losses a season and early exits in the NCAA. Those who believe Pope's hire presages a return to the Pitino heydey have it wrong. It's not a return to Pitino's teams-- it's a return to Tubby's.

[WVRed]

There is no evidence of the latter.

Pope hasn't ever won an NCAA game.

He's only coached against top competition for one season-- and BYU came in 5th in the Big XII, with 8 losses. (They had 11 losses overall.)

The optimism amongst most of the UK fanbase is palpable, but it's entirely narrative-based.

UK's defense last season was better than Pope's.
UK's offense was as good as Pope's.

Personally, if given the choice (and we absolutely were given that choice), I'm choosing talent. Any other choice is, IMO, lining up for 10 losses a season and early exits in the NCAA. Those who believe Pope's hire presages a return to the Pitino heydey have it wrong. It's not a return to Pitino's teams-- it's a return to Tubby's.

I agree on defense.

Offensively the improvement last year came from adding John Welch to the coaching staff. Welch didn't follow Cal to Arkansas and likely was going to go with Wahlberg regardless. With the players Cal is bringing in at Arkansas next year I expect those numbers to dip.

Comparing Pope to Tubby though is apples to asparagus for a number of reasons. Can you imagine Tubby investing in an analytics coach? That's basically what Cody Fuegers role is on the staff. Cal tried it with Joel Justus before deciding to put all of his emphasis on recruiting only.

Btw, if choosing anything over talent leads to 10 loss seasons and early tournament exits, how exactly would you describe the last five years?

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[cumberlandreds]

I agree on defense.

Offensively the improvement last year came from adding John Welch to the coaching staff. Welch didn't follow Cal to Arkansas and likely was going to go with Wahlberg regardless. With the players Cal is bringing in at Arkansas next year I expect those numbers to dip.

Comparing Pope to Tubby though is apples to asparagus for a number of reasons. Can you imagine Tubby investing in an analytics coach? That's basically what Cody Fuegers role is on the staff. Cal tried it with Joel Justus before deciding to put all of his emphasis on recruiting only.

Btw, if choosing anything over talent leads to 10 loss seasons and early tournament exits, how exactly would you describe the last five years?

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Talent doessn't always win. UK and Cal has proved that during most of his tenure at UK.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Talent doessn't always win. UK and Cal has proved that during most of his tenure at UK.

You're right. Talent doesn't always win, but if I have to choose, I'm going with the most talent all the time. More times than not, talent outs. Calipari went the Pope/UConn route and that's when Cal began struggling to win in the NCAA.

[WVRed]

You're right. Talent doesn't always win, but if I have to choose, I'm going with the most talent all the time. More times than not, talent outs. Calipari went the Pope/UConn route and that's when Cal began struggling to win in the NCAA.

And when he went back to all talent all the time we got what he had last year against Oakland.

The talent on that team was on par with 2010, 2012, and 2016 coming in. DJ Wagner and Justin Edwards were top 5 recruits and submarined their draft stocks in what is going to be a pretty weak NBA draft.

Cal began struggling to win because he refused to change. He's essentially the Dabo Swinney of college basketball at this point. Built a legacy off of one and done and the dribble drive but when the game changed he didn't just like Dabo.

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[plantmanky]

By Christmas UK Fanbase will be rumbling at full throttle, by end of January they will be ready to replace the whole roster, by SEC Tournament time (will they even make the SEC Tournament???) they will be after Pope...........in other words, UK fanbase wont be able to handle what is coming for the 24-25 season.




Pope new what he was signing up for, they will eat him alive.

[WVRed]

By Christmas UK Fanbase will be rumbling at full throttle, by end of January they will be ready to replace the whole roster, by SEC Tournament time (will they even make the SEC Tournament???) they will be after Pope...........in other words, UK fanbase wont be able to handle what is coming for the 24-25 season.




Pope new what he was signing up for, they will eat him alive.

Given the circumstances I think most knowledgeable (cannot emphasize that enough) fans will give Pope a pass for this season coming up. Only one freshman was left that would have had an impact on next year's team and he understandably picked UConn (McNeely).

Years 2 and 3 is where I will judge Pope. Although this year's team could possibly make some noise if everything clicks.

That said, if Pope isn't the answer I don't want Barnhart making the choice on his replacement. I really didn't want him making the choice on replacing Cal after giving him the lifetime contract. Kentucky was fortunate that the boosters and fans starved Cal out to where Arkansas was more appealing and they didn't have to eat the contract.

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[UKFlounder]

By Christmas UK Fanbase will be rumbling at full throttle, by end of January they will be ready to replace the whole roster, by SEC Tournament time (will they even make the SEC Tournament???) they will be after Pope...........in other words, UK fanbase wont be able to handle what is coming for the 24-25 season.




Pope new what he was signing up for, they will eat him alive.

Nah. The fans know the situation with an all-new roster and new staff. And Pope knowing what he signed up is a good thing. He already a good first impression and that will help if the team struggles this year. The fans like him and his respect for the program and will support him and the team.

If the team plays with an actual system (not just “out-athlete” opponents) plays hard and Pope shows coaching adjustments, strategies, etc. the fans will be fine. Focusing on winning games instead of mere draft positioning will help too, snd if the better players start and play instead of the “promised ones” (e.g. Wagner, and Edwards) that will help even more.

P.S. All conference teams make the SEC tournament, so yes they will be there. And they’ll even have a coach who understand it matters instead if one who ignored it.

[WVRed]

One thing ive noticed since Cal is gone and Pope is coach:

"Recruiting Insiders" are a thing again trying to make a buck. Even seen Marc Maggard on Twitter after he disappeared during Cal.

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[Ky Fried Redleg]

Noah is from the area I am from. My high school along with two others consolidated to make Harlan County High in 2008. This is really a big deal for the people of that area. Not many have come from Harlan County to play basketball at UK. The last one was Dickie Parsons in the late 50's to early 60's and he later became a longtime assistant for Joe B Hall. Before him was Wah Wah Jones who played on Rupp's first two national champions in the late 40's. I hope Noah does well at UK and makes those folks down there even more proud of him.

Being from Corbin, I've been able to watch Trent play a lot of basketball. He's a stone cold assassin as a competitor, especially in crunch time. Love his on-court demeanor. No trash-talking, no excessive celebrations or trying to embarrass an opponent. Kid just keeps his head down and plays hard. Never have seen him argue with a ref. Good get by Pope. Originally committed to South Carolina.

[cumberlandreds]

Being from Corbin, I've been able to watch Trent play a lot of basketball. He's a stone cold assassin as a competitor, especially in crunch time. Love his on-court demeanor. No trash-talking, no excessive celebrations or trying to embarrass an opponent. Kid just keeps his head down and plays hard. Never have seen him argue with a ref. Good get by Pope. Originally committed to South Carolina.

I hope he does well. He is about the only reason I will probably watch some games this year. I am just very discouraged how college sports has turned in just a few years. Basically since the pandemic. From NIL, to uninhibited transferring, to the conferences in just complete upheaval. IMO its just a complete mess.

[jrdunnit]

Was hoping they would get Lanier but Tenn wins out. Robinson is still in play but I'm beginning to have my doubts on him returning to college. Time will tell.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Jaxson Robinson saga reminds me of Randolph Morris, the returnee whose return was caught in a fax.

He's a solid player, but really, is he a game-changer? He's ranked 36th among transfers, according to On3 rating service. That's slightly below Adou Thiero's 31 ranking. Thiero will be (IMO) Arkansas' lowest ranked player and fifth offensive option.

Sigh.

Speaking of Arkansas, Calipari has Ivisic, Wagner, Thiero, Aidoo, and Johnell Davis as a starting five, with Billy Richmond, Karter Knox, and Boogie Fland behind them. That team could win 30-- and could have been what UK had. Even after transfers of Bradshaw and others. It has shooting (Ivisic, Davis), defense (Aidoo, Davis, Wagner, Thiero), toughness, and just about everything a team needs to be successful. That's the talent of a national championship roster.

Double sigh.

We'll have to see how it turns out, of course. Maybe Pope has figured out how disparate players with one or two specific skills can play together and win big. Maybe one or two of the guys who are largely considered lower level recruits and transfers will turn out.

C Amari Williams (86)
PG Lamont Butler (47)
SF/SG Otega Oweh (33)
PF Andrew Carr (69)
C Brandon Garrison (22)
SG Koby Brea (89)
PG Kerr Kriisa (125)
F Ansley Almonor (317)

That'd be a solid to great roster at Butler or even Georgia. At Kentucky?

Meh.

[cumberlandreds]

I guess we can call them the Arkansas Wildcats this season. They may win 30 games but I will say they will bow out of the NCAA's by the 2nd round. Cal will do something to screw them up just like he did at UK for the last 8 years or so.

As for UK's team this coming season, I know none of them and what they can or cannot do. I doubt I will be watching them or any colleges sports much until they get their act together. By the time they do that I will probably be so disinterested I won't care.

[Boston Red]

Kentucky has had impressive rosters and generally lousy teams in recent years. I'm sure Arkansas fans are excited about their team on paper, but I wouldn't suggest they book their Final Four travel just yet.

[WVRed]

Jaxson Robinson saga reminds me of Randolph Morris, the returnee whose return was caught in a fax.

He's a solid player, but really, is he a game-changer? He's ranked 36th among transfers, according to On3 rating service. That's slightly below Adou Thiero's 31 ranking. Thiero will be (IMO) Arkansas' lowest ranked player and fifth offensive option.

Sigh.

Speaking of Arkansas, Calipari has Ivisic, Wagner, Thiero, Aidoo, and Johnell Davis as a starting five, with Billy Richmond, Karter Knox, and Boogie Fland behind them. That team could win 30-- and could have been what UK had. Even after transfers of Bradshaw and others. It has shooting (Ivisic, Davis), defense (Aidoo, Davis, Wagner, Thiero), toughness, and just about everything a team needs to be successful. That's the talent of a national championship roster.

Double sigh.

We'll have to see how it turns out, of course. Maybe Pope has figured out how disparate players with one or two specific skills can play together and win big. Maybe one or two of the guys who are largely considered lower level recruits and transfers will turn out.

C Amari Williams (86)
PG Lamont Butler (47)
SF/SG Otega Oweh (33)
PF Andrew Carr (69)
C Brandon Garrison (22)
SG Koby Brea (89)
PG Kerr Kriisa (125)
F Ansley Almonor (317)

That'd be a solid to great roster at Butler or even Georgia. At Kentucky?

Meh.

And they will run into a brick wall against a team like St Peters or Oakland in the first round (again).

If Kentucky was going to move off Cal, this was the year to do it. The team you just listed is pretty underwhelming even by past Cal teams here. The biggest impact on last year's team was John Welch and he also didn't make the trip to Fayetteville choosing to coach with Vance Wahlberg instead.

Remember Cal had three players who didn't follow him in Somoto Cyril, Jayden Quaintance and Travis Perry. Add those three and take away Johnell Davis and Jonas Aidoo and that would have likely been Kentuckys team next year. It was going to be more of the same of Cal trotting out freshmen and getting waxed in the tournament by 23-24 year olds.

I know you are still hung up on Cal but there was no way he could have shown his face in Rupp as the teams head coach next season knowing that he had a team last season that was supposed to get UK back to the promised land with a UK legacy player who's rise to stardom was ultimately wasted.

I don't know if Pope is the answer or not. I just hope if he isn't that Barnhart is not making the decision on his replacement. That said with where college sports are headed getting a head coach who is a former alum (Duke, UNC) may be important moving forward as Pope is at his dream job and isn't likely to move unless UK pushes him out. As we saw with Cal, once a coach leaves now you are basically starting from scratch.

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[WVRed]

I guess we can call them the Arkansas Wildcats this season. They may win 30 games but I will say they will bow out of the NCAA's by the 2nd round. Cal will do something to screw them up just like he did at UK for the last 8 years or so.

As for UK's team this coming season, I know none of them and what they can or cannot do. I doubt I will be watching them or any colleges sports much until they get their act together. By the time they do that I will probably be so disinterested I won't care.I prefer Great Value Kentucky.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

As for national championships, give me talent all day long.

Of the four Wildcat championships I've been alive for, Kentucky had the most talent in the nation in three of them: 1978, 1996, and 2012.

[WVRed]

As for national championships, give me talent all day long.

Of the four Wildcat championships I've been alive for, Kentucky had the most talent in the nation in three of them: 1978, 1996, and 2012.

Not going to disagree with you on talent as it is important but so is experience and senior leadership. Those three teams had that.

Talent alone can only get you so far. The one in done won out in 2012 because that team had a transcendent talent in Anthony Davis but also senior leadership in Darius Miller.

In the 15 years Cal was at Kentucky he won ONE championship with all of that talent. Why do you think that is? The answer is Cal is an excellent recruiter and motivator but his in game coaching miscues have been well documented.

Id rather see teams built the way Dan Hurley is building them. 1-2 one and dones, a bunch of 3-4 star players who fit your system who are going to be 3-4 year players, and whatever else is needed is filled through the transfer portal.



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[WVRed]

Jaxson Robinson has withdrawn from the NBA Draft and commits to Kentucky.

Pope has his star player.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

In the 15 years Cal was at Kentucky he won ONE championship with all of that talent. Why do you think that is?

Because winning national championships is inherently difficult.

UK got screwed against Wisconsin in the Final Four and against UNC in an Elite 8 game. Both of those could have gone-- perhaps should have gone-- Kentucky's way.

- - - Updated - - -


Jaxson Robinson has withdrawn from the NBA Draft and commits to Kentucky.

Pope has his star player.

14 ppg isn't a star player, man. He's the 6th Man of the Year in the Big XII, not an All-American.

[WVRed]

Because winning national championships is inherently difficult.

UK got screwed against Wisconsin in the Final Four and against UNC in an Elite 8 game. Both of those could have gone-- perhaps should have gone-- Kentucky's way.

- - - Updated - - -

14 ppg isn't a star player, man. He's the 6th Man of the Year in the Big XII, not an All-American.

And in that time frame:

Duke won two championships (in years where Kentucky had a legitimate shot)

UConn won FOUR with three different coaches.

Look at the players who were on those teams and you can literally make the argument that Calipari has done less with the most amount of talent.

For the record I'm not bashing Cal. It's nothing personal. When he retires he will eventually have his name in the rafters at Rupp and he should. The 2010 decade he brought Kentucky back to national prominence and made Kentucky the school everyone wanted to come to.

His biggest fault was not listening to Joe B Halls advice and staying longer than those ten years.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

And in that time frame:

Duke won two championships (in years where Kentucky had a legitimate shot)

UConn won FOUR with three different coaches.

Duke's had a monstrous amount of talent.

UConn has as well.

Talent generally wins championships.

Not always. But most of the time.

If you want to win championships, you're going to almost always need talent. If given the choice between Calipari with monstrous talent and Pope with mid-major talent, I'm picking Calipari 10 times out of 10. I suspect most of the rest of you would not. Which, to me, is really, really weird. (Maybe championships aren't as important as rooting for two-, three-, and four-year players for many on this board?)

[WVRed]

Duke's had a monstrous amount of talent.

UConn has as well.

Talent generally wins championships.

Not always. But most of the time.

If you want to win championships, you're going to almost always need talent. If given the choice between Calipari with monstrous talent and Pope with mid-major talent, I'm picking Calipari 10 times out of 10. I suspect most of the rest of you would not. Which, to me, is really, really weird. (Maybe championships aren't as important as rooting for two-, three-, and four-year players for many on this board?)Duke and UConn also blended the talent with players who stayed. It wasn't load up on the top players from 247/On3 and have to replenish every year.

Duke also had a legend in coaching and UConn had two (not counting Ollie).

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Duke and UConn also blended the talent with players who stayed. It wasn't load up on the top players from 247/On3 and have to replenish every year.

Duke also had a legend in coaching and UConn had two (not counting Ollie).

Duke's 2015 team had one senior. They started three freshmen. To say that team had veterans is stretching it. UConn's 2011 team had Kemba Walker as a junior, three freshmen, and a sophomore starting. Again, the "veteran" leadership is basically nil. Last year's UK team had Reeves and Mitchell as starters; it was far more experienced than either of those squads. The season before, Calipari had five seniors. The year before that, three juniors and a senior.

The insistence that Calipari only coaches freshmen or has freshmen-dominated rosters hasn't been correct since 2018.

As to roster construction, I don't care who plays and what year they are-- as long as that roster is talented. I wish Kentucky had Arkansas' roster, as I think it's more talented-- even if Calipari was coach.

[WVRed]

Duke's 2015 team had one senior. They started three freshmen. To say that team had veterans is stretching it. UConn's 2011 team had Kemba Walker as a junior, three freshmen, and a sophomore starting. Again, the "veteran" leadership is basically nil. Last year's UK team had Reeves and Mitchell as starters; it was far more experienced than either of those squads. The season before, Calipari had five seniors. The year before that, three juniors and a senior.

The insistence that Calipari only coaches freshmen or has freshmen-dominated rosters hasn't been correct since 2018.

As to roster construction, I don't care who plays and what year they are-- as long as that roster is talented. I wish Kentucky had Arkansas' roster, as I think it's more talented-- even if Calipari was coach.

They had Amile Jefferson and one of the Plumlees who were juniors.

For the record, had Kentucky not tried to go stall ball at the end and lost to Wisconsin they would have waxed the floor with that Duke team. That Duke team had the benefit of playing a Michigan State team that Coach K traditionally owned (except for the Zion year) and Kentucky losing to Wisconsin.

Calhoun rode Kemba to the title. Same with Ollie and Napier three years later but he was pretty much their Tubby Smith.

As for Kentucky vs Arkansas in terms of talent, I hope Pope zones the crap out of that Arkansas team because there isn't anyone who scares me hitting a three. Zone always seems to be an Achilles heel for a Calipari coached team.

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[WVRed]

Lunardi has a way too early bracketolgy out with Kentucky as a 7 seed.

By comparison, Arkansas is a 5 seed.

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[jrdunnit]

Lunardi has a way too early bracketolgy out with Kentucky as a 7 seed.

By comparison, Arkansas is a 5 seed.

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Okay it is too early but fun for debate..:D
As a Kentucky fan, I honestly see this team with the addition of Robinson as a team that could be in the 3-4 seed range. In other words.... maybe ranking 12 to 16 somewhere. I feel if Pope has them all on the same page, he has put a nice balanced team together and the way college basketball has become, many coaches will face the starting over though not to the degree Pope has in going from zero to a full roster.
A nice blend of inside/outside, rim protection/rebounding etc.
Hopefully it will be an entertaining first Pope season.

[WVRed]

Interesting development:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40289529/sources-lakers-preparing-massive-offer-uconn-dan-hurley

Could try to get McNeely again. Or Mahaney or Karaban.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Travis Perry might be the second-coming of Reed Sheppard (https://x.com/UKBlueChips/status/1815822856388751459).

100/100 from the charity stripe two days in a row.

A couple of week ago, he reportedly hit 59 in a row from the corner, and yesterday, he supposefly hit 90% from distance on over 600 shots (https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/aaron-harrison-and-travis-perry-interview-each-other-at-the-joe-craft-center/).

If Perry can do his best Sheppard impression, Kentucky might be good enough to compete for an SEC crown.

[WVRed]

Travis Perry might be the second-coming of Reed Sheppard (https://x.com/UKBlueChips/status/1815822856388751459).

100/100 from the charity stripe two days in a row.

A couple of week ago, he reportedly hit 59 in a row from the corner, and yesterday, he supposefly hit 90% from distance on over 600 shots (https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/aaron-harrison-and-travis-perry-interview-each-other-at-the-joe-craft-center/).

If Perry can do his best Sheppard impression, Kentucky might be good enough to compete for an SEC crown.I hope I'm wrong but I don't think lightning will strike twice.

I do think Perry, Noah and Chandler are going to be important developmental pieces as Kentucky transitions into year 2 under Pope but I'm not expecting a Reed Sheppard scenario.

Im curious to see who fills out the roster this year and hopefully commits start rolling for next year. That said I'm expecting more losses in recruiting than what fans were used to under Cal.

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[WVRed]

'25 PG Jasper Johnson, a 5 star recruit originally from Kentucky and son of former UK football player Dennis Johnson is pretty much down to UNC and Alabama.

This one hurts. Johnson and Moreno were two in state talents Pope I really thought needed to lock down.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

'25 PG Jasper Johnson, a 5 star recruit originally from Kentucky and son of former UK football player Dennis Johnson is pretty much down to UNC and Alabama.

This one hurts. Johnson and Moreno were two in state talents Pope I really thought needed to lock down.

This was entirely foreseeable and is what happens when you choose guys with a history of recruiting at the lower end of recruiting lists.

Pope will have to win-- and win pretty-- for most elite recruits to take notice. That's going to be a process.

Kentucky's not going to get the elite guys you're used to seeing. The talent level is going to drop precipitously. You guys claims that Pope will be able to coach through that. I say the Cats are likely going to go through about a series of 10-loss seasons wherein the offense is fun to watch, the players stay four years, and the losses pile up. They might win a game or two in the NCAAs, so that's something. But the days of being at the forefront of the college basketball conversation are over for awhile.

[WVRed]

This was entirely foreseeable and is what happens when you choose guys with a history of recruiting at the lower end of recruiting lists.

Pope will have to win-- and win pretty-- for most elite recruits to take notice. That's going to be a process.

Kentucky's not going to get the elite guys you're used to seeing. The talent level is going to drop precipitously. You guys claims that Pope will be able to coach through that. I say the Cats are likely going to go through about a series of 10-loss seasons wherein the offense is fun to watch, the players stay four years, and the losses pile up. They might win a game or two in the NCAAs, so that's something. But the days of being at the forefront of the college basketball conversation are over for awhile.

I get that but at the same time you would think Pope would have a legit shot at what is essentially a legacy recruit.

I somewhat agree with you on Kentucky no longer being a national power. The reason though is NIL, although that and Cal leaving go hand in hand.

I wasn't crazy about the Pope hire when it happened but if you look at what Duke and UNC did they went with an alum. With NIL and coaches changing hats more than players as long as Pope wins you know he will be set here for as long as he wants to coach.

Ive posted this elsewhere but I don't see Cal coaching out his contract at Arkansas. If Sam Pittman gets fired and Cal underachieves (which could very well happen), all the NIL money that was going to basketball will be directed to a new football coach. And you and I both know Arkansas will get a good name coach.

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[Boston Red]

Fire Pittman and turn it over to his offensive coordinator...Bobby Petrino. :laugh:

[Bourgeois Zee]

I get that but at the same time you would think Pope would have a legit shot at what is essentially a legacy recruit.

I somewhat agree with you on Kentucky no longer being a national power. The reason though is NIL, although that and Cal leaving go hand in hand.

Elite recruits aren't going to pull the trigger on Kentucky until Pope wins no matter who their daddies played for. Pope has to have the horses to win in the SEC. That's a vicious circle that you wouldn't have had with Calipari.

The NIL has nothing to do with it-- though that is a convenient excuse for those who were desperate for Calipari to leave or get fired. Kentucky has enough deep-pocket boosters to be competitive with anyone.

[WVRed]

Elite recruits aren't going to pull the trigger on Kentucky until Pope wins no matter who their daddies played for. Pope has to have the horses to win in the SEC. That's a vicious circle that you wouldn't have had with Calipari.

The NIL has nothing to do with it-- though that is a convenient excuse for those who were desperate for Calipari to leave or get fired. Kentucky has enough deep-pocket boosters to be competitive with anyone.

It does when boosters withhold money. Kentucky essentially starved Cal out to where he had to leave. When Pope was hired the money started coming back in.

But to add numbers, Kentucky ranked 36th in terms of how much money was donated by boosters:

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2023/8/25/23844407/kentucky-wildcats-boosters-rank-36th-athletics-donations-2005-2022

This was the year to make the break from Cal. Looking at the team we would have had this year it's pretty underwhelming (sub Travis Perry, Somoto Cyril and Jayden Quaintence for Johnell Davis, Jonas Aidoo, and Trevon Brazille, Kentucky would not have had the latter three)

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[Bourgeois Zee]

It does when boosters withhold money. Kentucky essentially starved Cal out to where he had to leave. When Pope was hired the money started coming back in.

But to add numbers, Kentucky ranked 36th in terms of how much money was donated by boosters:

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2023/8/25/23844407/kentucky-wildcats-boosters-rank-36th-athletics-donations-2005-2022

This was the year to make the break from Cal. Looking at the team we would have had this year it's pretty underwhelming (sub Travis Perry, Somoto Cyril and Jayden Quaintence for Johnell Davis, Jonas Aidoo, and Trevon Brazille, Kentucky would not have had the latter three)

They shouldn't have broken with Calipari at all. They'd have had a top 10 team had he stayed, with talent enough to win a national championship. Some boosters and fans are happy that he's gone. They prefer three- and four-year guys over team success, seemingly. I can't agree with that.

You can't say that Davis, Aidoo, and Crazille wouldn't have signed with UK with any degree of certainty. While NIL may matter (some), so does exposure and playing for the right coach. Calipari undoubtedly has had success in developing outstanding pros. His kids make more money than any other program, by a factor of at least two. That matters to recruits (and is, IMO, the primary reason why Pope will struggle to recruit). Even were we to accept that only, say, Davis would have been added, that (plus Petty, Cyril, and Quaintence) would have been a much more talented squad.

[WVRed]

They shouldn't have broken with Calipari at all. They'd have had a top 10 team had he stayed, with talent enough to win a national championship. Some boosters and fans are happy that he's gone. They prefer three- and four-year guys over team success, seemingly. I can't agree with that.

You can't say that Davis, Aidoo, and Crazille wouldn't have signed with UK with any degree of certainty. While NIL may matter (some), so does exposure and playing for the right coach. Calipari undoubtedly has had success in developing outstanding pros. His kids make more money than any other program, by a factor of at least two. That matters to recruits (and is, IMO, the primary reason why Pope will struggle to recruit). Even were we to accept that only, say, Davis would have been added, that (plus Petty, Cyril, and Quaintence) would have been a much more talented squad.

A top ten preseason team that would finish with eight or more losses with 18 year old kids going up against 23-24 year old super seniors and losing in the first or second round of the SEC and NCAA Tournament. That's been Kentucky basketball the past five years.

I can say it with certainty because Perry, Cyril, and Quaintence were already signed. Cal could have taken them but it means Wagner or Theiro likely transfers out, among others. They didn't follow Cal to Arkansas so the three spots were open there that wouldn't have been open here.

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[cumberlandreds]

Doesn't matter who Cal was signing because he hasn't won anything since before the pandemic. It was time to move on.

[WVRed]

Doesn't matter who Cal was signing because he hasn't won anything since before the pandemic. It was time to move on.Exactly.

The game has changed. Cal hasn't (and won't). He's just got a bigger bag of NIL money to work with but if he has the same returns he had here that will dry up.

Only thing I hate is Cal staying in the SEC. Doing like Tubby would have been more palatable but I think outside of the Tyson connection he likely has contacts still in Memphis which isn't far away. Would have rather seen him take Ohio State if it would have opened up.



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[Bourgeois Zee]

Exactly.

The game has changed. Cal hasn't (and won't).

Calipari's offense was among the best in the game last season when he moved to a four-out/ five-out system focusing on jump shooting.

That's real change.

[cumberlandreds]

Calipari's offense was among the best in the game last season when he moved to a four-out/ five-out system focusing on jump shooting.

That's real change.

And they still lost in the first round to Oakland. That's the reason for change.

[WVRed]

Calipari's offense was among the best in the game last season when he moved to a four-out/ five-out system focusing on jump shooting.

That's real change.And in spite of that, two things happened:

1. Same result in the postseason.

2. After leaving for Arkansas, the coach credited with that system change, John Welch, left to coach with Vance Wahlberg (creator of the DDMO) at Fresno State.

What did Cal do? Brought back Kenny Payne instead. Just going back with what he knows.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

And in spite of that, two things happened:

1. Same result in the postseason.

2. After leaving for Arkansas, the coach credited with that system change, John Welch, left to coach with Vance Wahlberg (creator of the DDMO) at Fresno State.

What did Cal do? Brought back Kenny Payne instead. Just going back with what he knows.

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You said Cal never changes.

He changed.

He's changed several things over the past five seasons.

1. He went to a more veteran team, trying to add insta-starter transfers through NIL.
2. He recruited lesser, but still veteran talent on the transfer market, hoping to field a veteran team.
3. He eschewed defense for more mobile, then better shooting bigs.

In a one-loss-and-you're-out tournament, things happen. But the canard that Calipari didn't change is flat-out wrong.

[Bourgeois Zee]

And they still lost in the first round to Oakland. That's the reason for change.

Partly.

Partly, it's that boosters weren't happy with Calipari's penchant for taking credit or money and ignoring them. Partly, it's that Calipari cared/ cares more about his players than his university. (That's a big one for many of you fans.)

They say the opportunity to replace him and took it.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

And they still lost in the first round to Oakland. That's the reason for change.

Reed Sheppard and DeJuan Wagner with 3 points between them. Neither guy could do squat. Can't blame Cal for that. If either guy shows up at all, KY and Cal might have made a deep run. A lot of fans wanted Cal gone for a long time. We'll see how long it is before they are wishing he was back.

[cumberlandreds]

Doesn't really matter to me now if its Cal or Pope or whoever coaching. I will only be watching some UK games to see if the boy from Harlan County can be good at a higher level. Also the other smalltown kid from Kentucky they signed. But other wise college sports are dead to me. Too many changes in the last few years with the player being basically nomads, the conferences breaking up and being nothing like they once were and all the cans of worms the NIL has opened up has made this avenue of sports just unwatchable for me. Just not any fun any longer. If someone likes it this way its fine but its just not for me.

[Boston Red]

Reed Sheppard and DeJuan Wagner with 3 points between them. Neither guy could do squat. Can't blame Cal for that. If either guy shows up at all, KY and Cal might have made a deep run. A lot of fans wanted Cal gone for a long time. We'll see how long it is before they are wishing he was back.

Very few are ever going to wish he was back. No one is going to yearnn for the good old days of losing to Oakland and St. Peters in the NCAA Tournament (or not making it at all). Pope might not be the right guy, but those fans will be looking for the shiny new toy and won't be looking to go back to the mediocre old days.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Very few are ever going to wish he was back. No one is going to yearnn for the good old days of losing to Oakland and St. Peters in the NCAA Tournament (or not making it at all). Pope might not be the right guy, but those fans will be looking for the shiny new toy and won't be looking to go back to the mediocre old days.

That's an interesting turn of a phrase for a Louisville or Wichita State fan. We know what can happen when teams don't hire the right coaches-- or let go ones they shouldn't have by looking about 30 miles north or a few hours west.

Were I a Cardinal fan, I'd certainly be pining for the Rick Pitino years. Heck, were I a UofL fan, I'd be okay with the Chris Mack years.

Think Shocker Nation isn't pining for the days of Gregg Marshall? Isaac Brown was a fine guy, but he wasn't the answer. Neither, apparently, is Paul Mills.

I'm hopeful Pope isn't that guy, but he's as untested as anyone in that chair since Billy Clyde-- and that guy was an abject failure.

[Boston Red]

I haven't really been a Louisville basketball fan since Denny Crum "retired". I'm a Xavier guy on the hardwood, and Xavier certainly learned the same lesson you're mentioning with Travis Steele.

Of course, now that Pat Kelsey is at Louisville, I'll be cheering for my old Xavier classmate to do well.

Kentucky has won one NCAA Tournament game since 2019, right? I'd say calling that mediocre is significantly overrating that stretch by Kentucky historical standards.

[Bourgeois Zee]

I haven't really been a Louisville basketball fan since Denny Crum "retired". I'm a Xavier guy on the hardwood, and Xavier certainly learned the same lesson you're mentioning with Travis Steele.

Of course, now that Pat Kelsey is at Louisville, I'll be cheering for my old Xavier classmate to do well.

Kentucky has won one NCAA Tournament game since 2019, right? I'd say calling that mediocre is significantly overrating that stretch by Kentucky historical standards.

Yet that's leaps and bounds better than what Gillespie brought them after Tubby.

All schools go through slumps, but talent wins out generally. Calipari can recruit talent.

Pope, we don't know about. Good signing today, with Malachi Moreno, the #1 center in the HS ranks. We'll see if he can convince others to join him. If so, I'll retract every worry I have. Until then, however, consider me unconvinced.

[WVRed]

That's an interesting turn of a phrase for a Louisville or Wichita State fan. We know what can happen when teams don't hire the right coaches-- or let go ones they shouldn't have by looking about 30 miles north or a few hours west.

Were I a Cardinal fan, I'd certainly be pining for the Rick Pitino years. Heck, were I a UofL fan, I'd be okay with the Chris Mack years.

Think Shocker Nation isn't pining for the days of Gregg Marshall? Isaac Brown was a fine guy, but he wasn't the answer. Neither, apparently, is Paul Mills.

I'm hopeful Pope isn't that guy, but he's as untested as anyone in that chair since Billy Clyde-- and that guy was an abject failure.

Id say two years of Kenny Payne will do that.

As I said when Pope was hired, anyone past the big three (Drew, Hurley and Donovan) all had major question marks and the fans weren't going to be happy regardless.

Think Kentucky fans would have taken someone who beat his fiancee? That's Chris Beard.

Want someone who has as big an ego as Cal with equal baggage still trying to break through to the championship game? Bruce Pearl is your guy.

Want to return to Tubbyball? Shaka Smart and Brad Underwood are your options.

Want someone who did less with more just like Cal? Sean Miller.

Those were the options. Pope has his own share of demons but given the way NIL is going id rather have an alum and move off in 2-3 years if he doesn't pan out.



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[Boston Red]

I loved Gregg Marshall, by the way, and yeah people sure as heck pine for the guy. His issues weren't on-court performance though, and very few actual fans wanted him to go. Gene Stephenson is probably a better Wichita example of being careful what you wish for. The Shockers turned mediocre in baseball for a couple of years and they got rid of him. They're BEGGING for mediocre now!

[WVRed]

Yet that's leaps and bounds better than what Gillespie brought them after Tubby.

All schools go through slumps, but talent wins out generally. Calipari can recruit talent.

Pope, we don't know about. Good signing today, with Malachi Moreno, the #1 center in the HS ranks. We'll see if he can convince others to join him. If so, I'll retract every worry I have. Until then, however, consider me unconvinced.As long as he can get Jasper Johnson.

I have a feeling Johnson will eventually end up at UK but it will be through the transfer portal.

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[WVRed]

Yet that's leaps and bounds better than what Gillespie brought them after Tubby.

All schools go through slumps, but talent wins out generally. Calipari can recruit talent.

Pope, we don't know about. Good signing today, with Malachi Moreno, the #1 center in the HS ranks. We'll see if he can convince others to join him. If so, I'll retract every worry I have. Until then, however, consider me unconvinced.Here's the thing,

I'm not going to list out the last five years due to ad nauseum but it was historically speaking some of the worst basketball in Kentucky history, regardless of talent.

Do you think if Cal didn't have a "lifetime contract" and his reputation that he wouldn't have been shown the door? Or any other coach? Tubby didn't even have some of the lows Cal had in the last five years and fans were putting For Sale signs on his lawn.

Do you think any other coach at a blue blood basketball school would have survived what Cal did here the last five years? I think maybe Coach K could have gotten away with it but Dollar Bill Self? Roy Williams?

I always got sick of the media blaming UK fans for running off Tubby and Cal knowing that if UNC, Duke or Kansas went through what we did the past five years they would have likely been calling for their coaches heads as well. College Game day even said it was absurd to talk about replacing Cal right after the Oakland game yet said three weeks later it was time for a parting of ways.

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[WVRed]

Partly.

Partly, it's that boosters weren't happy with Calipari's penchant for taking credit or money and ignoring them. Partly, it's that Calipari cared/ cares more about his players than his university. (That's a big one for many of you fans.)

They say the opportunity to replace him and took it.

Add the Lexington media in there too. He pretty much cut them all off in the final years and was on his own little island.

I was listening to KSR a week or two after Pope was hired and Coach O was still there before he left for Illinois. Matt Jones said Coach O used to have the best relationship with them before Cal told them to stop interacting with the media.

Watching the conference tournaments, St Johns had a video with Pitino saying "If you play for the name on the front the back will prosper". That rings a lot better than Players First.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Here's the thing,

I'm not going to list out the last five years due to ad nauseum but it was historically speaking some of the worst basketball in Kentucky history, regardless of talent.

Do you think if Cal didn't have a "lifetime contract" and his reputation that he wouldn't have been shown the door? Or any other coach? Tubby didn't even have some of the lows Cal had in the last five years and fans were putting For Sale signs on his lawn.

Do you think any other coach at a blue blood basketball school would have survived what Cal did here the last five years? I think maybe Coach K could have gotten away with it but Dollar Bill Self? Roy Williams?

I think you overestimate other blue blood basketball school histories-- and underestimate the difficulty blue bloods have had in replacing legendary coaches.

[WVRed]

I think you overestimate other blue blood basketball school histories-- and underestimate the difficulty blue bloods have had in replacing legendary coaches.

At least in my lifetime the only coaches who were in over their heads that the teams had no choice but to move off of are Billy Gillespie at UK and Matt Doherty at UNC.

Could include Indiana in the mix with Mike Davis, Tom Crean and Archie Miller.

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[Ky Fried Redleg]

Doesn't really matter to me now if its Cal or Pope or whoever coaching. I will only be watching some UK games to see if the boy from Harlan County can be good at a higher level. Also the other smalltown kid from Kentucky they signed. But other wise college sports are dead to me. Too many changes in the last few years with the player being basically nomads, the conferences breaking up and being nothing like they once were and all the cans of worms the NIL has opened up has made this avenue of sports just unwatchable for me. Just not any fun any longer. If someone likes it this way its fine but its just not for me.

I agree with you. college sports is in the crapper , as far as I'm concerned. I watch or listen to most of UK's games but the landscape of college sports has changed so much (imo, in a very bad way) that it no longer holds nearly the interest for me that it once did.

As far as Trent(Noah) is concerned, being a 13th region guy, I got to see him play a lot. Love his demeanor on the court. He doesn't try to show up the opposition, doesn't fuss with referees, just keeps his head down and plays. And play he does. In crunch time, he's a stone cold killer. In the regular season game at Corbin this past season, Corbin led by 2 with just under two minutes remaining. Then Trent took over. Scored ten points in the final two . GAME OVER! . Love the kid. Glad UK got him. He original committed to South Carolina.

[Bourgeois Zee]

At least in my lifetime the only coaches who were in over their heads that the teams had no choice but to move off of are Billy Gillespie at UK and Matt Doherty at UNC.

Could include Indiana in the mix with Mike Davis, Tom Crean and Archie Miller.

IU, UofL, and UCLA have all become second-tier blue bloods largely because they made poor choices in letting coaches go. In all three cases, multiple poor coaching hires.
Kansas, after Phog Allen, largely struggled with Dick Harp and Ted Owens before turning to Larry Brown.
UConn went through the mess of Kevin Ollie before finding Dan Hurley.
Sheyer may turn out great at Duke, but his first two seasons haven't been super.
Hubert Davis missed the entire tournament in 2023.
Bill Guthridge was sent away after two 10-loss seasons in a row before they turned to Doherty.

[WVRed]

This is an interesting read:

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/coaches-believe-kentucky-has-a-top-five-nil-situation-in-college-basketball/?fbclid=IwY2xjawEzT7BleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfb_0aRrbSmJ Y9yREMsWMv05jBuwNqFiUBIbVI8n8h-4aM_-1dPv0OjtqA_aem_yVCGmCTV_gOMjA4XWf81QA

According to anonymous coaches these are the top 5 in NIL rankings:

1. Arkansas
2. Kansas
3. BYU
4. Kentucky
5. Indiana

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[WVRed]

Kentucky now trending as the favorite for Jasper Johnson.

Would be a pretty big win considering they were out of it a couple weeks ago.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Kentucky now trending as the favorite for Jasper Johnson.

Would be a pretty big win considering they were out of it a couple weeks ago.

I'll be shocked if Johnson ends up at Kentucky.

If so, it's a big recruiting win for sure.

Their 2026 would seem to be:
PG Travis Perry (So.)
SG Otega Oweh (Sr.)
SF Jasper Johnson (Fr.)
PF Collin Chandler (So.)
C Brandon Garrison (Jr.)

Malachi Moreno and Trent Noah behind.

Still short on the perimeter and especially defensively. Chandler's going to have to blossom a bit at that PF spot for them to be any good-- Dybantsa would have been ideal there, but he's moved to better, more high-profile programs. Chandler's a mismatch offensively, but defensively, both he and Perry will have to improve a great deal to be even adequate. Lots of shooting surrounding Garrison and an ideal offense through which to run up serious points against teams who struggle to math their cuts. That's the beginnings of a middle-of-the-pack SEC team-- .500 or a couple games above in the league. With a weak schedule, maybe they'll be a bottom half of the top 25 team and a five or six seed.

[WVRed]

I'll be shocked if Johnson ends up at Kentucky.

If so, it's a big recruiting win for sure.

Their 2026 would seem to be:
PG Travis Perry (So.)
SG Otega Oweh (Sr.)
SF Jasper Johnson (Fr.)
PF Collin Chandler (So.)
C Brandon Garrison (Jr.)

Malachi Moreno and Trent Noah behind.

Still short on the perimeter and especially defensively. Chandler's going to have to blossom a bit at that PF spot for them to be any good-- Dybantsa would have been ideal there, but he's moved to better, more high-profile programs. Chandler's a mismatch offensively, but defensively, both he and Perry will have to improve a great deal to be even adequate. Lots of shooting surrounding Garrison and an ideal offense through which to run up serious points against teams who struggle to math their cuts. That's the beginnings of a middle-of-the-pack SEC team-- .500 or a couple games above in the league. With a weak schedule, maybe they'll be a bottom half of the top 25 team and a five or six seed.

Don't know if you know who Travis Branham is but he logged a pick for Kentucky. He's pretty much the Nate Silver of recruiting predictions and is a UK insider to boot. I trust his judgement.

It's WAAAYYY too early to even speculate on what next year's team could look like with the transfer portal being a factor. That said id imagine Johnson will be running the point or an off ball guard. Perry off the bench seems more likely and whoever from the portal as a wing.

What's crazy about Dybantsa is the leading team for his services? BYU. They are going to be a player with NIL (how?) and he likes Kevin Young as a former NBA coach.

Keep an eye on Braylon Mullins. He's a 4 star SG from Indiana who is AAU teammates with Moreno and Johnson. Indiana will likely be on him but he's the type of sniper that Pope will be after.

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[Big Red Smokey]

Kentucky has won National Titles under 5 Coaches. As long as you're not a raging lunatic drunk, history says you're going to win one.

And Kentucky did not force Cal out. They were prepared to honor his contract. Arkansas offered him a way out and he took it. UK wasn't gonna eat $33 million.

Saw photos that Z is already in a boot "I haven't seen him"

The Cal-era UK fans are truly not up to date with the history and significance of the program. John Calipari was never going to win anything of significance ever again at UK the way he alienated everyone. Arkansas gives him a chance to reinvent himself again.

[WVRed]

Kentucky has won National Titles under 5 Coaches. As long as you're not a raging lunatic drunk, history says you're going to win one.

And Kentucky did not force Cal out. They were prepared to honor his contract. Arkansas offered him a way out and he took it. UK wasn't gonna eat $33 million.

Saw photos that Z is already in a boot "I haven't seen him"

The Cal-era UK fans are truly not up to date with the history and significance of the program. John Calipari was never going to win anything of significance ever again at UK the way he alienated everyone. Arkansas gives him a chance to reinvent himself again.

After Kentucky lost to Oakland, Cal sat down with Mitch Barnhart and was told that he was going to be allowed to stay but had to completely change the organizational structure of the basketball department which operated on its own island. He would essentially be reporting to Mitch on everything instead of having a go between. That relationship was not good.

Cal wanted 5 million for NIL and the boosters gave him $50,000. There were rumors that when Cal came back to Lexington after the Arkansas story broke that he went to the UK brass and offered to stay if Kentucky would match it. He was told no and that by talking to Arkansas without notifying Mitch that he had violated his contract and Kentucky was prepared to fire him for cause if he didn't take the Arkansas job. Cal overplayed his hand.

When Pope was hired that NIL number jumped significantly. Kentucky would have honored the contract had Cal stayed but between Mitch and the boosters they made him miserable enough that he looked for a way out and John Tyson gave him a lifeline.

Another factor was a similar reason Tubby left. Kentucky has a no nepotism policy to where coaches can't hire family members. Tubby wanted to bring Saul on staff and couldn't which prompted his move to Minnesota. Cal wanted to give Brad a landing spot after being losing his job when Jerry Stackhouse was let go.

So really it depends on what your definition of forced out is. They didn't eat his contract but between Barnhart bruising his ego and then the boosters starving him out it made it to where he was never going to get the talent to win here unless he could actually coach.

Fans are going to have to be patient with Pope which is going to be a tall task. The team he assembled this year may surprise but Malachi Moreno and hopefully Jasper Johnson and Brayden Mullins are the pieces to something big.

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[WVRed]

Jasper Johnson to Kentucky.

Braylon Mullins is a priority but Pope is throwing a line to Caleb Wilson and Chris Cenac as post players. Both are 5 star recruits and have big names lined up for their services.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Jasper Johnson to Kentucky.

Legitimately shocked that Johnson committed to UK and Pope.

[Tuff Nut]

Legitimately shocked that Johnson committed to UK and Pope.

I am legitimately not shocked that you are shocked.

[WVRed]

Further proof that there is life after Cal:

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/is-a-package-deal-in-the-works-for-kentucky-with-caleb-wilson-and-acaden-lewis/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFXzkhleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbf8FzRXcP8E Ej1kqUuYIQEA06Ae6amxb2MORqttaTnmHLiTrb-T1iRvGA_aem_31GgkYaItvrXoO7Cl7zr-g

PG-Acaden Lewis
SG- Jasper Johnson
SF- Braylon Mullins
PF- Caleb Wilson
C- Brandon Garrison/Malachi Moreno

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Further proof that there is life after Cal:

https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/is-a-package-deal-in-the-works-for-kentucky-with-caleb-wilson-and-acaden-lewis/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFXzkhleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbf8FzRXcP8E Ej1kqUuYIQEA06Ae6amxb2MORqttaTnmHLiTrb-T1iRvGA_aem_31GgkYaItvrXoO7Cl7zr-g

PG-Acaden Lewis
SG- Jasper Johnson
SF- Braylon Mullins
PF- Caleb Wilson
C- Brandon Garrison/Malachi Moreno

If they get Mullins, Wilson, and Lewis, that'll be proof positive that Pope and company can recruit with the big boys.

[WVRed]

If they get Mullins, Wilson, and Lewis, that'll be proof positive that Pope and company can recruit with the big boys.I think you will see a stark difference in how Pope recruits vs Cal.

When Cal was at Memphis he had a pretty fertile recruiting area. He eschewed the local talent to recruit nationally which put him at odds with local high school coaches. Kentucky didn't really care because honestly there wasn't very many players coming out of the state who could play at that level.

Fast forward to now and there has been a talent growth in the state. Reed Sheppard, Travis Perry, Trent Noah, Jasper Johnson, Malachi Moreno, and Tay Kinney. Cal has already recruited Darius Acuff to Arkansas. Had Cal still been here, Jasper Johnson likely would not have been a priority, putting Cal even further at odds with the fans.

Pope will recruit local kids who want to wear the jersey. Cal will continue to recruit the best players in the country and his class at Arkansas next year may we'll be on par with some of his best classes at Kentucky. I don't think Kentucky will be too far off though.

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[Assembly Hall]

You guys can cross Mullins off your list.

[redsfan39]

I'll gladly take a Caleb Wilson and Acaden Lewis both to land Wilson.

[WVRed]

You guys can cross Mullins off your list.Yep.

I think once Kentucky got involved with Lewis it was going to be hard for Lewis, Johnson and Mullins to coexist.

My guess is Indiana or UConn.

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[redsfan39]

Chris Cenac & Mikel Brown Jr will be on campus for official visits this weekend according to Brandon Ramsey.

[redsfan39]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGPcdQcNh1Q

[WVRed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGPcdQcNh1QThe whole Pope hire feels like a 90s nostalgia trip.

I'm really mixed on Pitino. Nobody can fault him for returning to the northeast to essentially run his hometown NBA team who has a crack at an all NBA player in Tim Duncan.

Coming back to Louisville and then flipping off the fans in his last game there fans still remember no matter how much Pope glosses over it.

Pitino has admitted he regrets leaving Kentucky but I think the job would have ultimately consumed him the way it did Cal had he stayed.

That said I hope if Cal is still with us in 30 years he gets that type of reception in Rupp. He did bring a championship and was responsible for a 10 year run that put Kentucky back on the map even though he consistently underachieved when it mattered.

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[WVRed]

If true this is utter BS:

https://twitter.com/RealRobReinhart/status/1845497059459182730?s=07

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[Boston Red]

Fake

[Big Red Smokey]

71 point win today

[plantmanky]

71 point win today

You would have thought they won a national title last night the way people are posting about it.


I guess enjoy them while you can get them.

[WVRed]

You would have thought they won a national title last night the way people are posting about it.


I guess enjoy them while you can get them.I watched the first half. Would have watched more if not having to go to bed to work at 2 am.

Thoughts:

Popes style of play is a hit. Very unselfish, fast paced, high volume three, back door cuts and pressure defense reminiscent of the Pitino days.

Curious to see if Pope shortens the bench or let's everyone play. Everyone (except Kerr Kriisa who was injured) ate last night. Just curious to see if Pope goes into the season with a deep bench or not.

Lamont Butler had more steals in the game than Kentucky had turnovers. Defense was something I was worried about with Pope coached teams but between Butler and Oweh Kentucky could have two impact players in the backcourt.

What I think could be the Achilles heel of this team is a team that plays physical. One that muddies up the waters and forces them into a slugfest.

That said I'm optimistic and think they will give Duke a more competitive game than any under Calipari except 2016.

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[redsfan39]

Acaden Lewis to UK!

[WVRed]

Acaden Lewis to UK!Now they just need to get Wilson locked up. Feel pretty confident in that.

Season tips off tonight against Wright State. Second preseason game was tougher early on but it will be interesting to see how tonight plays out. Anxious to get the season started.

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[WVRed]

Early impressions:

One of the things I like so far is Pope has a very deep bench. 10 deep. Only players who haven't played are Noah, Perry and the walkons.

Talent isn't the same obviously but it reminds me of the 2015 Platoon. Style of play is reminiscent of the Pitino days.

Duke is going to be a test for this team but so far I like what I see.

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[jrdunnit]

Early impressions:

One of the things I like so far is Pope has a very deep bench. 10 deep. Only players who haven't played are Noah, Perry and the walkons.

Talent isn't the same obviously but it reminds me of the 2015 Platoon. Style of play is reminiscent of the Pitino days.

Duke is going to be a test for this team but so far I like what I see.

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Also they are showing alot of unselfishness up to this point. Enjoyed watching.

[WVRed]

Kentucky beats Duke.

What a game.

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[UKFlounder]

Wow.

I know it’s just an early November game and I’m not going to overhype it because there is do much season left, but that is a nice win in terms of the way they fought back and made enough plays to win.

But, as a fan, I’ve got a big smile on my face right now. That was a heck of a game and it feels good to win it. .

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Wow.

I know it’s just an early November game and I’m not going to overhype it because there is do much season left, but that is a nice win in terms of the way they fought back and made enough plays to win.

But, as a fan, I’ve got a big smile on my face right now. That was a heck of a game and it feels good to win it. .




The thing is, they beat Duke by 5 and didn't play particularly well. Williams wasn't great and Robinson was a no-show. And they still won over the sixth ranked team in the country. They should leave fans pretty optimistic.

[redsfan39]

Kentucky Basketball is back. This is just the beginning. Andrew Carr & Otega Oweh willing them down the stretch was awesome to see. Bilas/Schulman kept talking about Duke's depth. Not what I saw, but Kentucky sure does especially with Brea, Garrison & Kriisa. When the game started getting physical you could see Duke wearing down and experience over youth/talent triumphed tonight. Garrison gave them some serviceable minutes contributing 8 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, a steal and 2 blocks. 10 & 8 along with 2 blocks & 2 assists for Amari Williams. Held Duke to 26 2nd half points. Proud of the Pope-led Cats!

[WVRed]

Next test isn't until December with back to back games at Clemson and Gonzaga but they could be top 10 or higher by then.

Id say February 1st will be the same as last night especially given how Arkansas played against Baylor.

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[bounty37h]

I'm not a UK fan, but I like any team that beats dook.

[redsfan39]

Ranked 9th this week. Easily put away Lipscomb 97-68. Lipscomb had a 4-point game with Arkansas under 7 to go a couple weeks ago. Robinson back on track with 20 points, 7 rebounds. Butler found his shooting stroke 3-3 from beyond the arc, 16 points. Brea is such a weapon with his instant offense off the bench, 12 points & 7 rebounds. I know it is early and Duke has been the only real test so far, but it is encouraging to see the depth on this UK team that when one player struggles, so many other contributors will step up. Take care of business vs Jackson State, likely will move up to 8th with Purdue's 18-point loss to Marquette.

[WVRed]

Ranked 9th this week. Easily put away Lipscomb 97-68. Lipscomb had a 4-point game with Arkansas under 7 to go a couple weeks ago. Robinson back on track with 20 points, 7 rebounds. Butler found his shooting stroke 3-3 from beyond the arc, 16 points. Brea is such a weapon with his instant offense off the bench, 12 points & 7 rebounds. I know it is early and Duke has been the only real test so far, but it is encouraging to see the depth on this UK team that when one player struggles, so many other contributors will step up. Take care of business vs Jackson State, likely will move up to 8th with Purdue's 18-point loss to Marquette.I figure they will be top 5 before they play Clemson and Gonzaga.

Kansas has Duke and Creighton.

UConn has Baylor

Auburn has Iowa State and Duke

Iowa State has Auburn and Marquette

Houston has Alabama

Alabama has Houston, Rutgers, and UNC

Plenty of opportunity for the teams above Kentucky to lose before Kentucky plays a meaningful game.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

I'm particularly keen on seeing how they respond to a team who can shoot while still being athletic enough to cover their shooters. (The SEC is filled with those squads.) Gonzaga, Ohio State, and Louisville should all be good challenges.

[WVRed]

I'm particularly keen on seeing how they respond to a team who can shoot while still being athletic enough to cover their shooters. (The SEC is filled with those squads.) Gonzaga, Ohio State, and Louisville should all be good challenges.Or for that matter a veteran laced team. I think going up against a similarly built and coached team will show us more moving forward.

Duke showcased why I'm glad the change was made. The one and done movement had its time but college basketball (and football) is changing and Kentucky had to adapt.

Reading comments I think Arkansas is having buyers remorse.

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[Bourgeois Zee]

Or for that matter a veteran laced team. I think going up against a similarly built and coached team will show us more moving forward.

Duke showcased why I'm glad the change was made. The one and done movement had its time but college basketball (and football) is changing and Kentucky had to adapt.

Reading comments I think Arkansas is having buyers remorse.

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Are there any veteran-laced teams as veteran as Kentucky?

They're running a squad that average 32 years of age. (That might be hyperbole.)

[WVRed]

Are there any veteran-laced teams as veteran as Kentucky?

They're running a squad that average 32 years of age. (That might be hyperbole.)Compared to Duke. Id rather see them play someone who has the same (or better) level of talent and experience and then judge. There will be plenty of opportunity coming up especially playing Gonzaga.

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[redsfan39]

Easy work with Jackson State. On to the Hilltoppers. 97 PPG and as a team shooting 42% from beyond the arc. Still impressed with the production Kentucky is getting from the bench. Brea lit it up for 22, 5 3's. Team leaders in assists Kriisa 7, Garrison with 6. He is a stat sheet stuffer every game 6 points, 8 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 steals and 3 blocks. Chandler with his best game knocking down a couple of 3's. Aaron Bradshaw in some trouble with Ohio State. Info wasn't shared due to a violation of federal privacy laws.

[redsfan39]

Ranked 4th this week. Massive road test at Clemson at 9:30 PM.

[UKFlounder]

Ranked 4th this week. Massive road test at Clemson at 9:30 PM.

A bigger one at Gonzaga soon afterwards.

With current ratings of SEC reams, they have the toughest remaining schedule in the nation, though that likely fluctuates as teams start to lose & ratings change.

Either way, things are getting real now.

[Boston Red]

If Kentucky pulls this one out, the SEC goes 10-0 against the ACC today.

[WVRed]

If Kentucky pulls this one out, the SEC goes 10-0 against the ACC today.And they were the only loss.

Not surprising. Kinda exposed the one weakness I saw in a Pope coached team. Physicality. Any team that plays football will beat Kentucky, especially on the road.

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[plantmanky]

Poop down their leg, gonna be a lot of that this season.

[WVRed]

Poop down their leg, gonna be a lot of that this season.I'll reserve judgment until Saturday.

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[redsfan39]

Big time win 90-89 over Gonzaga in OT. Battle tested, March Tournament time feeling about this one! Comeback from down 18 points in the 2nd half!

Cats played tougher in the 2nd half, had much better ball movement and that 1-3-1 zone defense really threw the Zags for a loop. No Butler at all, Kerr going down in the 2nd half. Carr is something else between this game and Duke coming through. Robinson just played his best game of the season filling in at the point once Kriisa went down. Garrison inside really made a difference and Oweh continues to be solid. Williams was better last 10 minutes/OT defending the rim. 12-points, 2 blocks, 3 rebounds tonight. Will be key for this team if he can start putting those minutes together for an entire game. Rebounding still has to get better with this team. Amazing what can happen when you have a head coach that makes in-game adjustments.

2 statement wins on the resume in early December with Duke & Gonzaga. This team is only going to get better as the season goes on getting more experience together. Busted their streak of 175 consecutive games won leading 10+ points at the half.

[goreds2]

Just watched the game via DVR. Wow, what a finish!

[redsfan39]

Kriisa out 3-6 weeks, fracture in foot requiring surgery.

[redsfan39]

Big road win over Mississippi State. Great to see some guys get back on track. Outrebounded the Bulldogs by 10. Huge game for Robinson scoring 27 with 7 3's. Williams 10 points, 12 rebounds, 6 assists & 2 blocks is the level of production Kentucky needs from him in the SEC. Oweh with 15 & 8. Even Almonor chipping in with 11 and knocked down three 3's tonight.

[WVRed]

Caleb Wilson to commit tonight. Looking like UNC after UK had momentum and was the perceived favorite for awhile.

I don't get this one. Pope has been winning since coming to Lexington and Hubert Davis has been on the hot seat.

Nate Ament is going to be the next target and UK is getting in late.

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[WVRed]

Interesting fight going on with the Kentucky and national media.

https://awfulannouncing.com/radio/seth-greenberg-blasted-matt-jones-kentucky-john-calipari-criticisms.html

For those who didn't click, Seth Greenberg is a major Calipari homer and told Kentucky fans to "worry about their team". Jay Williams did the same thing and actually went on KSR today to do damage control.




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[Boston Red]

Caleb Wilson to commit tonight. Looking like UNC after UK had momentum and was the perceived favorite for awhile.

I don't get this one. Pope has been winning since coming to Lexington and Hubert Davis has been on the hot seat.

Nate Ament is going to be the next target and UK is getting in late.

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Just get him out of the transfer portal next year.

[goreds2]

Jan 25, 2025
UK
@
Vanderbilt

2:30pm est. ESPN

[UKFlounder]

Andrew Carr is out (Kerr is still out) so it will be a tough one today

[Ky Fried Redleg]

Down two starters, and without a true point guard, the Cats pull off a bigtime win in Knoxville. Vols shot 45 threes and took 72 shots to Kentucky's 50. That's right, they had 22 more shot attempts than UK... and still lost by five.