April 17th Reds vs. Astros

[Jaycint]

My first ever game thread, if we win it will be my last. I like to have a 1.000 winning percentage. :D

Aaron Harang 1-1 3.65 ERA

vs.

Brandon Duckworth 0-0 9.00 ERA

Haven't found the starting lineups posted anywhere yet.

[LvJ]

HOUSTON CINCINNATI
AVG HR RBI AVG HR RBI
Chris Burke 2B .235 0 0 D'Angelo Jimenez 2B .242 0 3
Jose Vizcaino SS .500 0 2 Ken Griffey Jr CF .281 0 2
Jeff Bagwell 1B .270 2 5 Sean Casey 1B .268 0 3
Mike Lamb LF .250 0 3 Joe Randa 3B .361 3 10
Morgan Ensberg 3B .364 1 5 Adam Dunn LF .188 2 6
Jason Lane CF .310 3 9 Wily Mo Pena RF .316 2 3
Luke Scott RF .261 0 1 Felipe Lopez SS .400 0 0
Raul Chavez C .375 0 2 Jason Larue C .308 0 2
Brandon Duckworth RHP .000 0 0 Aaron Harang RHP .000 0 0
(0-0, 9.00) (1-1, 3.65)

[redsfaninbsg]

Nice to see Willy Mo get the start with the hot bat.

[redsrule2500]

Dunn's back and Kearns is now gone. Aurilla is out of the lineup!!

[Buckeye33]

Pretty surprised Freel isn't in for DLo. I would have actually preferred that lineup since DLo isn't hitting.

Oh well, lets take 2 of 3.

[LvJ]

:bowrofl: :ughmamoru @ Houston's lineup.

[Dunner44]

Is anyone else surprised by how LaRue has been hitting? His BA is about 50 points higher than last year, and even though it's early, he has been more clutch.

[LvJ]

Is anyone else surprised by how LaRue has been hitting? His BA is about 50 points higher than last year, and even though it's early, he has been more clutch. Yep, I'll take it considering he was awful in April and May last year.

[Falls City Beer]

Is anyone else surprised by how LaRue has been hitting? His BA is about 50 points higher than last year, and even though it's early, he has been more clutch.

Not surprised at all. Larue's a good hitter.

[KronoRed]

My first ever game thread, if we win it will be my last. I like to have a 1.000 winning percentage. :D


That's my plan as well..retire undefeated :D

[CrackerJack]

Good to see WMP get another start. I'm not so sure he isn't a better player than Kearns at this point.

[KronoRed]

Good to see WMP get another start. I'm not so sure he isn't a better player than Kearns at this point.
I am

I'm sad how quickly we forget Kearns good games.

[wheels]

Harang needs to have a bounceback game today.

I think he will.

[westofyou]

Is anyone else surprised by how LaRue has been hitting? His BA is about 50 points higher than last year, and even though it's early, he has been more clutch.

Catchers usually are a bit fresher now so any piling up on the numbers for Jason is good. A couple foul tips and 8 straight games will eventually wear him down. It's inenviable.

[wheels]

It's funny how both lineups only have three guys that have homered this season.

[Fullboat]

I predict WMP will go medieval on Houston pitching today.

[Matt700wlw]

The Reds need to wear the red shirts more....

I mean, they are "THE REDS"

[Fullboat]

Harang setting up the DP with a walk

[Falls City Beer]

Aaron H. would be the right-handed Eric Milton, except he walks too many.

[Matt700wlw]

Harang setting up the DP with a walk

That's one way to look at it... :dancingco

[Fullboat]

Nice!!

[OnBaseMachine]

Harang throwing a lot of pitches.

[LvJ]

Another crappy crowd? :(


Awesomse comeback, Harang. Good toss, Rue! :owned:

[SteelSD]

And Garner runs himself out of an Inning. Thanks much!!

[Falls City Beer]

Burke bails out Harang--he'd already thrown 21 pitches to achieve two outs.

D'Lo needs a day off. Bad.

[PuffyPig]

Is anyone else surprised by how LaRue has been hitting? His BA is about 50 points higher than last year, and even though it's early, he has been more clutch.

Larue OPS .828 after the all satrt break last year.

Waht you are seeing may be the Larue we get all year.

[pedro]

Another crappy crowd? :(



I noticed that.

[Fullboat]

Randa goes Yard!!!

[westofyou]

Joe Randa the National Leagues Version of 2005 Brian Roberts

[OnBaseMachine]

Randa HR

2-0 Reds

[LvJ]

Randa goes Yard!!!

Gawd, this is crazy. GO RANDA! :KoolAid:

[Matt700wlw]

What a horrible, pointless pickup Joe Randa was ;)


By the way...when did he become a power hitter? :eek:

[KronoRed]

Randa :clap:

[OnBaseMachine]

I have never seen Dunn groundout to first base so much.

Where did all that power go?

[KronoRed]

I have never seen Dunn groundout to first base so much.

Where did all that power go?

I blame people telling him he K's too much

[Matt700wlw]

Where did all that power go?


I think Randa stole it all.....

[Fullboat]

Harang would really like a 1-2-3 here.

[OnBaseMachine]

I blame people telling him he K's too much

I agree.

Should have left him alone. He was perfectly fine last year.

[westofyou]

I have never seen Dunn groundout to first base so much.

Where did all that power go?

Dunn's GAB Chart 2004

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/dunn_chart.gif

[LvJ]

4 K's, 2 IP. :dancingco

[OnBaseMachine]

1-2-3 inning.

Harang has 4 strikeouts in 2 innings.

[Fullboat]

1-2-3 /2-0 Good guys :thumbup:

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn's GAB Chart 2004

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/dunn_chart.gif

Did your kid draw that? :p:

[LvJ]

I love Pena, but that was a classic AB. :ughmamoru

[SandyD]

woy, where did you get that graph? that's cool.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Harang now has 5 K's in 2.1 IP.

[Jaycint]

Another great inning! Nice movement on Harang's fastball today it looks like.

[OnBaseMachine]

Chavez-K's looking
Duckworth-groundout to Lopez
Burke-K's swinging

[Matt700wlw]

Harang has matured as a pitcher

[Falls City Beer]

He looked good in St. Louis till the 6th when he gave up the dingers. Bad Aaron.

[westofyou]

woy, where did you get that graph? that's cool.

MLB.com has hitting charts in their stats section

[OnBaseMachine]

Harang, Jimenez, Griffey go down in order.

2-0 Reds after 3.

[SandyD]

MLB.com has hitting charts in their stats section

I hate mlb site. Really hate it. But I'll have to check that out. I like graphs. :D

[westofyou]

I hate mlb site. Really hate it. But I'll have to check that out. I like graphs. :D
http://www.baseballgraphs.com/

[westofyou]

Aflac answer.

Tony Perez 146

[Falls City Beer]

So much for good Aaron. This team has more concentration lapses than a middle-aged man on a beach full of co-eds.

[Matt700wlw]

So much for good Aaron. This team has more concentration lapses than a middle-aged man on a beach full of co-eds.


He gave up 1 run! He sucks!

[Falls City Beer]

He gave up 1 run! He sucks!


Doubles to Vizcaino :nono:

Ahem.

[Matt700wlw]

He gave up 1 run! He sucks!


I really need to learn to shut up :runawaycr

[OnBaseMachine]

3-2 Astros.

Jason Lane the Reds killer homers.

[sjm]

Why wasn't Dunn's HR in Houston called a homer? That was the exact same.

[westofyou]

Jason Lane the White Man's Marc Whiten

[Falls City Beer]

Harang's a pretty crummy pitcher--gives up WAY too many long, long, long balls.

[Puffy]

Harang has matured as a pitcher

Really? Seems like the exact same Harang to me.

[Kc61]

Probaby good the Reds fell behind.

When the Reds get a lead the offense goes to sleep. Has been that way for years. Now they're behind, maybe they'll get interested.

[thrilljam]

BTW, Randa's career highs are .314, 16 HR and 106 RBI.
He's on pace for .378, 58 HR and 176 RBI.
MVP!!
Obviously he probably won't hit those numbers but I think he could set new career highs with the Reds lineup around him.

[sjm]

Why do our pitchers fall apart so quickly?

[flynn78]

I like Harang, but I would like to see him not fall in love with throwing the perfect pitch and then making such big mistakes.

[Falls City Beer]

Why do our pitchers fall apart so quickly?

They're bad pitchers.

[Matt700wlw]

Can any of this be linked to Don Gullett, because it's the same thing every year....

[Cedric]

No, it's linked to bad drafting and bad signings. You can't turn crap into gold. Mazzone doesn't, Miller doesn't, none of them do. We take soft tossers that can't locate and expect miracles.

[jason]

It went right through his leg.

[OnBaseMachine]

Casey-Pop out
Randa-Walk
Dunn-HBP

Pena up.

[Jaycint]

Pena time!!!!!

[Aronchis]

Pitchers with "junk" stuff like Harang and Wilson will get hit harder the second time around. Luckily for the Reds, they have enough pitchers that are a step ahead of them, though they have to hope 3 of them put together full seasons. Won't be easy.

[OnBaseMachine]

Pena 3 run bomb!

5-3 Reds

[jason]

That one went far.

[Matt700wlw]

Somebody is going to have to convince me why he's not playing every day

[westofyou]

Monster Shot by WMP a real 2 true outcome guy.

BTW Sideshow Bob did his doo.

[CTA513]

I knew after seeing that 1st pitch to Pena that if Duckworth got the ball up that Pena would smash it.

:)

[LvJ]

HOLYCRAP. :KoolAid: :owned: :owned: :owned:

[CrackerJack]

Off-speed pitch looked like, and he just crushed it into the upper deck in CF. Wow.

[Kc61]

Somebody please explain to me why Pena is a lesser prospect than Kearns and Dunn. Must be one of those SABR things I don't understand.

[Puffy]

Jason Lane against the Reds this year.

6 games

7 for 18 (.389), 4 Hr's 10 RBI, 5 runs scored.

[Cedric]

Wily Mo is gonna play everyday. He's the man and he's gonna be a star.

[westofyou]

Somebody please explain to me why Pena is a lesser prospect than Kearns and Dunn. Must be one of those SABR things I don't understand.

On Base Percentage and batting average would be my guess.

[LvJ]

Somebody please explain to me why Pena is a lesser prospect than Kearns and Dunn. Must be one of those SABR things I don't understand.

0 Walks in 20+ ABs. :ughmamoru

[Falls City Beer]

I'd pinch-hit Kearns for Harang here. Bring in Belisle.

[Matt700wlw]

Pena's homer estimated at 498 feet!!

[LvJ]

:bowrofl: Who else loves seeing Harang hit?

[Cedric]

That's funny LVJ? What's his ops? That's what's wrong when people think that EVERY single player has to be a certain way. Sometimes in this game there are certain players that are "freaks" and they don't have to walk. Pena isn't there yet, but he's getting there.

[thrilljam]

What's the matter, Wily Mo, didn't eat your Wheaties today? Why not 500 ft?

I love WMP putting pressure on the other 3 OFers to start hitting.

[Kc61]

That's funny LVJ? What's his ops? That's what's wrong when people think that EVERY single player has to be a certain way. Sometimes in this game there are certain players that are "freaks" and they don't have to walk. Pena isn't there yet, but he's getting there.

Yeah, walks are ok, but some people think they are the key stat in the game.

[Cedric]

Wily Mo has had a better start to this year than any other outfielder on this team but yet people still bring out negatives about him. If someone says negatives about Dunn or Kearns the board attacks and eats people alive, but Pena isn't a baseball prospectus star so he's not worthy of defending.

[Matt700wlw]

Wily Mo could blast one in PetCo Park

[Aronchis]

Pena isn't as good as prospect than Kearns because of plate Coverage. Dunn because of patience. Granted, when he is on, he is on, he will take bad pitches and kill them, when he is off, he turns into a K monster that would even scare Adam Dunn. As WMP gets older and matures, he looks to have the potential to put up some huge power numbers and even some decent OBP's. But I figure he is 2-3 years away from doing that. With Dunn and Kearns, the Reds don't need alot from the OF position concerning OBP. Though WMP is picking up their jocks right now and carrying the load why they slump early on.

[PuffyPig]

I'd pinch-hit Kearns for Harang here. Bring in Belisle.

Good idea. Then we can have Kearns pitch against the Cubs tomorrow.

[westofyou]

but Pena isn't a baseball prospectus star so he's not worthy of defending.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3306

[OnBaseMachine]

Duckworth doubles. :rolleyes:

Burke K's, 8th for Harang.

[Cedric]

WOY- I'm not trying to cause some big fight over Wily Mo, I just get discouraged when he hits a three run bomb and people feel the need to disparage him. Same as if Dunn hits a three run homer and some yahoo feels the need to talk about three k's from last night's game or something.

[LvJ]

That's funny LVJ? What's his ops? That's what's wrong when people think that EVERY single player has to be a certain way. Sometimes in this game there are certain players that are "freaks" and they don't have to walk. Pena isn't there yet, but he's getting there. FYI, that wasn't a laughing smilie. I don't consider Pena to be better than Kearns or Dunn, but he's very special in his own ways. If he would be just alittle patient at the plate, his whole game would turn around. Hopefully he'll catch on with the help of Chambs. He's very young. :dancingco

[SYCMiniBus]

Wily Mo's slugging is almost so high at the moment that it is better that he doesn't take BB's. He slugging like .850 once it gets over 1.00 then technically taking a walk would be counter productive. That is simply unreal, he can take as few walks as he wants right now because he is flat out mashing the ball. In my mind he is a better prospect then Kearns simply because in my mind he is a better player. Kearns can take a walk better and he plays a better RF, though Wily Mo plays a much better CF and covers more ground. The numbers simply do not lie when Kearns gets everyday AB's he out preforms Kearns. But Kearns fits the "profile" more so the Reds management wants Kearns to win the job.

[LvJ]

Good idea. Then we can have Kearns pitch against the Cubs tomorrow. It'd be entertaining. :dunno:

[Cedric]

LVJ- I didn't mean to be rude in my post

[OnBaseMachine]

Harang finally retires Vizcaino on a flyout to Griffey.

Reds have the top of the order coming up.

[LvJ]

LVJ- I didn't mean to be rude in my post Rudeness not found. :) It's all good.

[westofyou]

WOY- I'm not trying to cause some big fight over Wily Mo, I just get discouraged when he hits a three run bomb and people feel the need to disparage him. Same as if Dunn hits a three run homer and some yahoo feels the need to talk about three k's from last night's game or something.

The question was asked why he wasn't considered as big a prospect and I replied my thoughts.

Which I was slammed for because I have a different viewpoint... whoop dee do... I can deal

[membengal]

A gentle suggestion...perhaps, rather than cluttering the game thread with a discussion of WilyMo and whether he should have more at-bats, a seperate thread might be the place to do that?

Considering some of the worries people have had about the game threads the last few days, it's just a thought...

[Kc61]

Pena isn't as good as prospect than Kearns because of plate Coverage. Dunn because of patience. Granted, when he is on, he is on, he will take bad pitches and kill them, when he is off, he turns into a K monster that would even scare Adam Dunn. As WMP gets older and matures, he looks to have the potential to put up some huge power numbers and even some decent OBP's. But I figure he is 2-3 years away from doing that. With Dunn and Kearns, the Reds don't need alot from the OF position concerning OBP. Though WMP is picking up their jocks right now and carrying the load why they slump early on.

I think that is a reasonable viewpoint, but I think Pena may be the complete package eventually. Dunn isn't that good a "hitter" (meaning singles and doubles rather than homers) although a high OBP guy because of walks. Kearns, I think, will be a good all around hitter but I don't see him as quite the power man Pena can be. (Kearns hit his homers in bunches in the minors, a streaky power hitter.)

All three are assets, but I just think Pena gets the short shrift in people's comments on upside.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jimenez takes 3 straight strikes. 1 out. He's had a rough week.

[SteelSD]

Wily Mo has had a better start to this year than any other outfielder on this team but yet people still bring out negatives about him. If someone says negatives about Dunn or Kearns the board attacks and eats people alive, but Pena isn't a baseball prospectus star so he's not worthy of defending.

I think you're being a little overly dramatic, Ced.

Wily Mo Pena, at this point, should be in the lineup against any pitcher who slings the ball to home plate from the south side. He was born to crush them and Griffey should give way to Pena every day they face one.

His bane is RHP and, even with his HR against Duckworth, he's consistently been terrible against them. Overall, Pena is unable to take a Walk. He's nowhere near as "slump proof" as guys with better plate discipline, particularly against RHP. When Pena's "grid" goes down, it's just down. Now, being Garret Anderson (with more pop) isn't a Bad Thing, but he's not there yet. If there's an injury, I fully support playing Pena. If there's a LHP on the hill, I fully support playing Pena. But right now, overall, he's just not as good an option...yet.

[Cedric]

I can hear that arguement, Duckworth isn't special. But I think right now he needs to get everyday at bats.

[OnBaseMachine]

Second consecutive atbat Casey has swung and popped out on the first pitch. Take a pitch. It's not gonna kill you.

[Puffy]

A gentle suggestion...perhaps, rather than cluttering the game thread with a discussion of WilyMo and whether he should have more at-bats, a seperate thread might be the place to do that?

Considering some of the worries people have had about the game threads the last few days, it's just a thought...

Well, this is just my opinion and not extra relevant or anything, but I think having those discussions, especially when people are being civil (which I think they are) is what game threads are about. The play by play is still here, and people are just discussing the merits of a certain player.

I think people have more of a problem with ten straight, "Harang sucks" posts that say no more, rather than thoughtful discussion on WMP and why he's not a starter.

Just my .02 cents though.

[Aronchis]

I wouldn't want WMP starting against Prior and Woods. He doesn't have the experience yet to handle their stuff at this point in his career. At least Dunn may take a walk and Kearns showed up Prior last year when nobody else could.

[Puffy]

Casey is really struggling. No power, no walks, etc. If anyone needs a day off I think it is him.

[Matt700wlw]

I wouldn't want WMP starting against Prior and Woods. He doesn't have the experience yet to handle their stuff at this point in his career. At least Dunn may take a walk and Kearns showed up Prior last year when nobody else could.

Didn't he take Wood long last year in Wrigley?

[Retneprac]

Heard Marty mention that Wily Mo's homer was the second longest ever at Great American

[LvJ]

Second consecutive atbat Casey has swung and popped out on the first pitch. Take a pitch. It's not gonna kill you. What if he takes a pitch and it hits him square in the head? It might kill him. :runaway:

[Cedric]

I thought Wily Mo did really good against Wood and Prior last year. He also homered off Oswalt this year, what else do people want?

[Puffy]

Didn't he take Wood long last year in Wrigley?

Yup, and he also had a double in that game.

[membengal]

Well, this is just my opinion and not extra relevant or anything, but I think having those discussions, especially when people are being civil (which I think they are) is what game threads are about. The play by play is still here, and people are just discussing the merits of a certain player.

I think people have more of a problem with ten straight, "Harang sucks" posts that say no more, rather than thoughtful discussion on WMP and why he's not a starter.

Just my .02 cents though.

Fair enough. Wasn't sure. All I have known since I joined were the threads that long-timers seem to complain are too cluttered, and I was trying to understand the complaint. I got the impression a sizable number of people really just wanted play by play commentary. I guess what really needs to happen is some board consensus about what people expect from these threads.

With that said, I will shut up and get out of the way...

[Matt700wlw]

These discussions within the game threads are like the small talk the broadcasters do between pitches

[Larkin411]

Fair enough. Wasn't sure. All I have known since I joined were the threads that long-timers seem to complain are too cluttered, and I was trying to understand the complaint. I got the impression a sizable number of people really just wanted play by play commentary. I guess what really needs to happen is some board consensus about what people expect from these threads.

With that said, I will shut up and get out of the way...

Yeah that would be helpful(the consensus, not you getting out of the way :) ). Sometimes I'm hesitant to post just cause I'm not sure if there's some traditional expectation that I should be aware of and would potentially be violating.

[LvJ]

These discussions within the game threads are like the small talk the broadcasters do between pitches

That's an insult. :(

[Cedric]

Some of us have been doing this gameday thread stuff for a long while, I think it's all fine.

[Puffy]

Fair enough. Wasn't sure. All I have known since I joined were the threads that long-timers seem to complain are too cluttered, and I was trying to understand the complaint. I got the impression a sizable number of people really just wanted play by play commentary. I guess what really needs to happen is some board consensus about what people expect from these threads.

With that said, I will shut up and get out of the way...

No dude, no need to shut up. The way it used to be is exactly what these last two games have been. Yesterday's was a perfect example of what game threads used to be and I think the same can be said for today's.

Discussing the merits of who is playing, some comedy, a general whats going on, etc, thats what it used to be.

Seriously, I more think the problem was 22 pages of player X sucks and brief emotional outbursts were what was bothering people. When one person does it its no big deal, but when 10 people do it, it gets tough to read.

Again, this is all just my impression, but I hope it clears things up a bit!

[OnBaseMachine]

Bagwell: Walks
Lamb: Lineout to Dunn, 1 down.
Ensberg: foul, foul, double play. Harang to Jimenez to Casey!

5-3 Reds after 5-1/2

[Matt700wlw]

These things got ugly after the all-star break last year :yikes:

[redsfaninbsg]

Back to back Quality Starts from Reds Pitching, I can get used to this.

[Spring~Fields]

Yeah that would be helpful(the consensus, not you getting out of the way :) ). Sometimes I'm hesitant to post just cause I'm not sure if there's some traditional expectation that I should be aware of and would potentially be violating.

Just don't write anything negative about Dunn or Griffey and for the most part you will be fine.

Pena appears to have the hot hand, and looks to deserve the starting roll over Dunn and Kearns at this point.

[Jaycint]

Nice turn on the DP. The quality starts are certainly nice, I could handle 3 or 4 more in a row. Chances are we will need them considering the pitchers we will be facing the next few days.

[FeartheEars]

Anyone else impressed with the number of strikeouts Harang has had today? I think he can provide us with quality innings being the #3 or #4 pitcher all year.

[Puffy]

Yeah that would be helpful(the consensus, not you getting out of the way :) ). Sometimes I'm hesitant to post just cause I'm not sure if there's some traditional expectation that I should be aware of and would potentially be violating.

No, man, post away! If you see something and want to add it, or just feel like "talking" please don't let all thats been going on stop you. Think of it like watching a game in a bar with friends. You don't wanna hear someone only adding what players blow, you want conversation between friends and insights, and little stuff.

Its all good, really, it is!

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn scortched that one

[OnBaseMachine]

Russ Springer repleaces Duckworth.

Dunn: ball, ball, ground-rule double to right-center.

[Spring~Fields]

Think of it like watching a game in a bar with friends.
Its all good, really, it is!

Exactly, like common joes having a good time talking baseball, don't worry about having a PHD in spreadsheets to make a remark.

[FeartheEars]

Do you run Harang out there for the 7th? Sometimes Miley has a tendency to keep pitchers in the game too long.

[Matt700wlw]

:lol: I've never seen a game thread turn into a debate about the appropriate type of discussion for a game thread

[Larkin411]

Yeah, I've been here for a year so I was pretty comfy but then with all that's been going on, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't using this forum incorrectly.

[Kc61]

Do you run Harang out there for the 7th? Sometimes Miley has a tendency to keep pitchers in the game too long.

Let's just hope Weathers doesn't come in. Valentine, Mercker, Wagner, Graves are only guys I want to see in this game.

[westofyou]

Dunn isn't that good a "hitter" (meaning singles and doubles rather than homers)

FWIW since 2001 Dunn 1 2b every 19 ab, Casey every 16.4

CINCINNATI REDS
CAREER
2001-2004
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria


DOUBLES 2B AB
1 Sean Casey 128 2102
2 Adam Dunn 92 1728
3 Jason LaRue 85 1486
4 Aaron Boone 83 1390
5 Barry Larkin 80 1250
6 Todd Walker 59 873
7 Ken Griffey Jr. 58 1027
8 Juan Castro 48 943
9 Austin Kearns 45 881
10 D'Angelo Jimenez 41 853

[westofyou]

Yeah, I've been here for a year so I was pretty comfy but then with all that's been going on, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't using this forum incorrectly.
As long as you have your pants on you are using it correctly

[LvJ]

Do you run Harang out there for the 7th? Sometimes Miley has a tendency to keep pitchers in the game too long.

With the bottom of the order coming up, I say yes. :dancingco

[OnBaseMachine]

Pena: swing and miss, called strike, K swinging.

Lopez: called strike, groundout to Burke. Dunn to 3rd.

LaRue: ball, called strike, swing and miss, K looking.

5-3 Reds after 6

[Puffy]

Do you run Harang out there for the 7th? Sometimes Miley has a tendency to keep pitchers in the game too long.

94 pitches with the bottom of the order coming up - yea, I probably do, but with a very short leash.

If Belisle were available I would bring him in (Belisle 7th, Wagner 8th and Graves 9th), but with them having to hold Belisle off because Ortiz probably can't go tomorrow, yeah, I'd give harang a shot to get through 7.

[SteelSD]

Yeah that would be helpful(the consensus, not you getting out of the way :) ). Sometimes I'm hesitant to post just cause I'm not sure if there's some traditional expectation that I should be aware of and would potentially be violating.

Not speaking for Redszone here, but the game threads have always been great places to be when you see the following type of comments:

"Player X is swinging a ton a the first pitch right now. He needs to take a pitch or two to get untracked."

The following= Bad: "Why can't Player X figure out how to Hit???"

Good="Player A really seems to be striking out a lot right now and is badly flailing at bad pitches."

Bad= "And there's ANOTHER strikeout for our Dave Kingman clone!!"

Now, I think we can all get caught up the emotion of a baseball game, particularly when things aren't going so well. And I think we've all done both the "Good" and "Bad" type of posts about one player or another at one point in time. And yeah, if Danny Graves blows a Save, pretty much anyone is going to show their disgust. So hard-and-fast rules really aren't going to do a ton to stop short-term cathartic responses in those scenarios.

But IMHO, the primary defining line is that there's a point when player "critique" ends and player "bashing" begins. The better everyone is at staying behind that line, the better off we all are on the game threads.

JMHO.

[paintmered]

Not speaking for Redszone here, but the game threads have always been great places to be when you see the following type of comments:

"Player X is swinging a ton a the first pitch right now. He needs to take a pitch or two to get untracked."

The following= Bad: "Why can't Player X figure out how to Hit???"

Good="Player A really seems to be striking out a lot right now and is badly flailing at bad pitches."

Bad= "And there's ANOTHER strikeout for our Dave Kingman clone!!"

Now, I think we can all get caught up the emotion of a baseball game, particularly when things aren't going so well. And I think we've all done both the "Good" and "Bad" type of posts about one player or another at one point in time. And yeah, if Danny Graves blows a Save, pretty much anyone is going to show their disgust. So hard-and-fast rules really aren't going to do a ton to stop short-term cathartic responses in those scenarios.

But IMHO, the primary defining line is that there's a point when player "critique" ends and player "bashing" begins. The better everyone is at staying behind that line, the better off we all are on the game threads.

JMHO.


I agree. Thanks Steel :)

[Larkin411]

As long as you have your pants on you are using it correctly

Damn, I knew there was something I was messing up! They should put that in the rules.

Just kidding, of course.

[OnBaseMachine]

Joe Valentine replaces Harang.

[LvJ]

Oh well. Joe's in, so it's all good. :dancingco

[FeartheEars]

Interesting choice... So Valentine for the 7th, Wagner 8th, and Graves 9th. Who PHs leading off the bottom of the inning?

[westofyou]

Joe Valentine replaces Harang.

Joes visualizations whilst he pitches involves 3 milk bottles, a toothless carny and the smell of Kettle corn and cotton candy.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Lane flies out, 1 out.

[SirFelixCat]

For those of us that are 8+ hours away from Houston and the game is still blacked out, you really ought to see Valentine's pic on MLB's gamecast....scary

[wheels]

Joe needs a quick inning.

If it's quick, that means he's throwing strikes.

If he's throwing strikes, the other team will probably be missing them.

I like power arms.

[SirFelixCat]

Interesting choice... So Valentine for the 7th, Wagner 8th, and Graves 9th. Who PHs leading off the bottom of the inning?

I'm guessing Cruz. Possibly Ears.

[Caveat Emperor]

Anyone else impressed with the number of strikeouts Harang has had today? I think he can provide us with quality innings being the #3 or #4 pitcher all year.

I think the problem with Aaron Harnag is that he gets obsessed with "nibbling" at the corners or trying to make a perfect pitch and he has a tendency to fall behind hitters that he should be putting away.

Case in point, earlier in the game when he had a couple batters down 0-2 and let them battle back to 3-2. It runs his pitch coutn high and limits him to, effectively, being a 5-6IP pitcher.

If Harang wants to really take it up the next level, he needs to work on retiring batters in fewer pitches.

Having said that, I'll take a quality start ANY day of the week. :thumbup:

[CincyRedsFan30]

Scott walks.

[SirFelixCat]

Joe needs a quick inning.

If it's quick, that means he's throwing strikes.

If he's throwing strikes, the other team will probably be missing them.

I like power arms.

Take it back.


Jinx.


Or maybe he's setting up the DP? :p:

[CincyRedsFan30]

Harang's biggest problems are mistake pitches and not putting hitters away.

[FeartheEars]

Great! When is Mercker coming in?

[CincyRedsFan30]

Scott doubles... 5-4 game.

[OnBaseMachine]

Lane: called strike, strike 2, ball, flyout to Dunn, 1 out.

Scott: ball, strike 1, ball 2, ball 3, ball 4.

Chavez: foul, ball, RBI double.

[OnBaseMachine]

The Reds pitchers can make the worst hitters in baseball look good.

Palmeiro pinch hits for Springer. Mercker replaces Valentine.

[Puffy]

I think the problem with Aaron Harnag is that he gets obsessed with "nibbling" at the corners or trying to make a perfect pitch and he has a tendency to fall behind hitters that he should be putting away.

Case in point, earlier in the game when he had a couple batters down 0-2 and let them battle back to 3-2. It runs his pitch coutn high and limits him to, effectively, being a 5-6IP pitcher.

If Harang wants to really take it up the next level, he needs to work on retiring batters in fewer pitches.

Having said that, I'll take a quality start ANY day of the week. :thumbup:

Yup, and until he fixes the nibbling (and the HR's he gives up) he is a 5th starter and NOT the 3 or 4 some want him to be.

[SirFelixCat]

Valentine out. Thankfully. Merker in.

[CincyRedsFan30]

This is a huge situation for Mercker. Hopefully he will make his signing look good here.

[Falls City Beer]

Doubles to Raul Chavez :nono:

[wheels]

I totally jinxed it.

Hopefully Merck's got the moxie to bail Joe out.

[Matt700wlw]

..or not

[wheels]

Single, thankfully Chavez holds

[SirFelixCat]

I asked this in ST, and I will ask it again. Why is Valentine with the big club? The man showed last season he can not locate his pitches. He has done nothing this season to change that either. If I am missing his value, other than being a "power arm", please clue me in. If he can not locate, where is his value?

[Aronchis]

Valentine gets the hook after a walk and double? Give all the Reds pitchers hooks LOL!!!!!

[wheels]

Ground ball, please...

[CincyRedsFan30]

1st and 3rd, 1 out.

[FeartheEars]

Tie Ballgame

[westofyou]

Happy Groundhog Day

[SteelSD]

Tie game. Bully struggling.

[wheels]

I asked this in ST, and I will ask it again. Why is Valentine with the big club? The man showed last season he can not locate his pitches. He has done nothing this season to change that either. If I am missing his value, other than being a "power arm", please clue me in. If he can not locate, where is his value?

On that pitch, he definitely missed his location.

Larue set up down and away, and his fastball tailed right into Chavez's wheelhouse.

....And now we're tied.

What can ya do?

[Falls City Beer]

This pitching staff blows.

[Kc61]

need Wagner ready for Bagwell.

[OSURedLeg]

Our Middle Relief is an absolute joke. The fact that Weathers has not shown to be effective in filling that hole has really hurt the club. I'm just praying we can keep this game tied until we get to Wagner.

[Aronchis]

I asked this in ST, and I will ask it again. Why is Valentine with the big club? The man showed last season he can not locate his pitches. He has done nothing this season to change that either. If I am missing his value, other than being a "power arm", please clue me in. If he can not locate, where is his value?

Don't agree at all. The Reds need power arms inside the bullpen, Valentine is a good development in that case. His location was off, but so was Harang's in the 4th. Doesn't mean he won't K the next batter.

[Matt700wlw]

The consistancy of this pitching staff is disturbing...

[wheels]

I think the Reds' bats still have some talking to do in this one, though.

[jason]

Bring Graves in an inning early let him pick up another W.

[Redmachine2003]

Wow the guy is getting picked on for going 6 innings and throwing 94 pitches. He gives QS and leaves with the lead. I think he could came out and pitched the 7th with lower end of the order coming up, but Miley is tring to over coach alittle here. Harang should be able to at least throw 100-110 pitches right now.

[OSURedLeg]

I really hope either Bubba Nelson or Jong Bong reach their potential, because losing Rietsma has left a GIANT gap in our bullpen.

[Caveat Emperor]

Wow the guy is getting picked on for going 6 innings and throwing 94 pitches. He gives QS and leaves with the lead. I think he could came out and pitched the 7th with lower end of the order coming up, but Miley is tring to over coach alittle here. Harang should be able to at least throw 100-110 pitches right now.

Reds need their starters to get 7, to set up Wagner-Graves.

They simply have nobody who can get 3 outs in the 7th inning on a consistent basis.

[jason]

Whew that could have been real bad.

[SteelSD]

Garner runs himself out of another Inning. Thanks again, Phil!

[Caveat Emperor]

Houston runs themselves out of ANOTHER inning...

I'm sorry, that's just poor coaching. Plain and simple.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Garner runs himself out of another Inning. Thanks again, Phil!


It seems he does that a lot.

His lineup construction might have something to do with it.

[OnBaseMachine]

We need to send Phil Garner a Thank You card if we win this game.

[Falls City Beer]

Had to be careful there with Jose "Thunder" Vizcaino--don't want to give 'em anything to rip. :rolleyes:

[OSURedLeg]

Wow the guy is getting picked on for going 6 innings and throwing 94 pitches. He gives QS and leaves with the lead. I think he could came out and pitched the 7th with lower end of the order coming up, but Miley is tring to over coach alittle here. Harang should be able to at least throw 100-110 pitches right now.

I agree. If we're asking it of our 4th starter to do much better than what he did today, then we're fooling ourselves. I'll take this type of outing from Harang anyday. All we need to concern ourselves with him is consistency, but certainly not perfection. He's got solid stuff, but he's no ace. He did a fine job today, and I'm confused as to why anyone is complaining about him right now.

[BBevinsGK27]

We just saw the exact reason that Felipe Lopez should be our everyday shortstop. That play he made demonstrated range that Aurilia hasn't had in 5 years. That play doesn't get made w/ Aurilia in there.

[Puffy]

Reds need their starters to get 7, to set up Wagner-Graves.

They simply have nobody who can get 3 outs in the 7th inning on a consistent basis.

Belisle.

Once Ortiz gets healthy and Belisle doesn't have to spot start, he should be the 7th inning guy. Throwing 94 with movement, yeah, baby, he's the cat for the job.

[westofyou]

Garner runs himself out of another Inning. Thanks again, Phil!

Phil was thinking Bill Virdon would run here....

[OnBaseMachine]

Chad Qualls is the new Astro pitcher.

[membengal]

Just wanted to take a second to note, like others have, the strong start from Harang.

Live stuff, high Ks, but for Jason Lane's continued Lance Berkman impression, a dominant start. Still left the team the lead. Too bad the pen couldn't hold it.

I also agree that it would be nice to find someone to lock down the 7th in conjunction with Wagner in the 8th. Frustrating that no one has stepped up yet to grab that role.

(hat tip to Belisle, but with him spot starting, he is out of the running for that role at the moment)

[Kc61]

Harang did just fine. I agree with the post that said Reds need to figure out the 7th inning. Ahead by 2, you have to have somebody who can pitch an effective 7th if you pull the starter.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Cruz out... 1 out. Where is Freel?

[OSURedLeg]

I think Belisle and Hudson (when healthy) both will have the arms to stick around seven innings. Ortiz is also going to give us alot of innings once he heels up.

[realreds1]

Anyone up for an official "FREE WILY MO" thread? Watching that 500-foot blast in the 4th was a wonderful site. I really wish he could play more often.

[Caveat Emperor]

I gotta ask: tie ballgame, leading off an inning, why don't you pinch hit Ryan Freel there to try and get some speed on the basepathes?

[CincyRedsFan30]

Jimenez is really struggling right now. 2 outs on the K.

[westofyou]

Hudson might not ever be back

[Aronchis]

Stick with Valentine. He is erratic, but that is also a benefit when he is locating better. Miley yanked him to quickly and it cost the Reds IMO.

[Falls City Beer]

I wonder: has Jimenez reached his Cincinnati expiration date? Everywhere he plays, he's good for a while, then....*whistling sound of descent*

[westofyou]

I gotta ask: tie ballgame, leading off an inning, why don't you pinch hit Ryan Freel there to try and get some speed on the basepathes?

PH is Cruz to Dave and Boston 1 is still a great album too.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Griffey grounds out. Seven pitch inning for Qualls.

[sjm]

Jimenez is terrible... Play Freel.

[westofyou]

I wonder: has Jimenez reached his Cincinnati expiration date? Everywhere he plays, he's good for a while, then....*whistling sound of descent*


I just ran up to the Fridge to check the back of the milk carton to see if his game was listed as missing.

It was.

[OnBaseMachine]

I loathe Reds hitters swinging at the first pitch.

[Kc61]

Stick with Valentine. He is erratic, but that is also a benefit when he is locating better. Miley yanked him to quickly and it cost the Reds IMO.

Just can't walk guys in that spot. Then he worries about more walks and comes right in. If he throws strikes, he will pitch.

[adampad]

This game will end with a walk-off shot by Jr. in the 10th.

Has he ever had one?

[OSURedLeg]

Hudson might not ever be back

From what I've read, he's working on his strength down in Sarasota right now, and isn't feeling any discomfort. Hopefully he's making progress and is only a few weeks away from being ready to start. We're going to need him.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Wagner in.

[SteelSD]

It seems he does that a lot.

His lineup construction might have something to do with it.

Good point. Even further...

I think his lineup construction is symptomatic of his propensity to try to exert more control over games than he needs to.

[OnBaseMachine]

This game will end with a walk-off shot by Jr. in the 10th.

Has he ever had one?

He hit a walkoff inside-the-park-homerun vs the Cards in 2001.

[paintmered]

Jimenez is terrible... Play Freel.


I don't mean to single you out, so please don't take this personally. But these are the types of posts that we are trying to avoid in the game threads.

Something better would be:

"Jimenez is really struggling right now at the plate, maybe Freel would be a better option for Miley."

[adampad]

I would rather have Wagner in a tie game in the last inning than having Graves in with a 1 run lead.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Bagwell K's. 1 out.

[paintmered]

This game will end with a walk-off shot by Jr. in the 10th.

Has he ever had one?


Yes, he had a walk off home run back in 2002 against the Dodgers. Eric Gagne was alot ejected for hitting Dunn after serving up a home run to Aaron Boone.

[BBevinsGK27]

Why couldn't we have had Wagner one inning ago??

[OnBaseMachine]

Nasty. Just plain nasty.

Wagner K's Bagwell, 1 out.

[SirFelixCat]

I just ran up to the Fridge to check the back of the milk carton to see if his game was listed as missing.

It was.


:bowrofl:

[adampad]

He hit a walkoff inside-the-park-homerun vs the Cards in 2001.

WOW! Thats hard to imagine.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Good point. Even further...

I think his lineup construction is symptomatic of his propensity to try to exert more control over games than he needs to.


I agree.

Batting Adam Everett in the leadoff slot as often as he does is a bit puzzling.

Everett should bat 7th in front of Ausmus/Chavez.

[adampad]

Yes, he had a walk off home run back in 2002 against the Dodgers. Eric Gagne was alot ejected for hitting Dunn after serving up a home run to Aaron Boone.

I remember Gagne getting kicked out, but I can't recall the homer.

[Matt700wlw]

Why couldn't we have had Wagner one inning ago??


Were you saying that an inning ago or did you decide it would have been a good idea AFTER Mercker couldn't get the job done?

[SirFelixCat]

This is why I drafted Wagner in my Fantasy BB league. If he isn't closing come the AS Break, something is wrong. Man, he is making that pick in the RL Draft look real real good.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Lamb K's. 2 outs.

[OSURedLeg]

I really, really can't wait to see Wagner closing games for the Reds

[BBevinsGK27]

that was nastyyyyyy Wagner is NASTY!

[Matt700wlw]

wow. just plain wow

[SteelSD]

You can find Ryan Wagner's stuff in the dictionary listed under "filthy".

[westofyou]

I agree.

Batting Adam Everett in the leadoff slot as often as he does is a bit puzzling.

Everett should bat 7th in front of Ausmus/Chavez.

"At this moment, Biggio handles the bat really well," Garner said. "He's probably a little better hitting to all fields than Everett is. I think Everett's strength is left-center field and from second base around. I don't want to put Everett in a position where he's taking away from his strength to try to hit behind a runner or try to take pitches."

Garner said Biggio's game is "see it, whack it," so it would make sense for Garner to try to have someone on base already when Biggio comes to the plate.

"The trick is having Everett on there, who we know will steal bases," Garner said. "[If] Biggio sees something he likes, he's going to hit it. I think that puts pressure on the opposition."

Phil Garner

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3912

[paintmered]

Did Ryan Wagner play college ball at Houston or Rice?

[sjm]

That was strike three!!!!!!!

[SirFelixCat]

Did Ryan Wagner play college ball at Houston or Rice?

Houston

[OSURedLeg]

Wagner k's the side
:bowrofl:

[LvJ]

nasty.

frickin nasty.

[sjm]

Houston.

[CincyRedsFan30]

Ensberg K's looking.... Wagner K's the side. Inning over.

[paintmered]

Houston


Thanks. And Wagner strikes out the side.

The kid is a stud.

[OnBaseMachine]

Ensberg K's.

Wow!

Wagner will be an All-Star this year.

[westofyou]

Ryan is sculpting himself a nice Strat card.