5/01/05 Game Thread Reds vs. Brew Crew

[Elam]

No TV today just 700 WLW

Ortiz vs. Davis

Starting Lineups
No. Cincinnati
1 Ryan Freel, 2B
2 Ken Griffey Jr.,
3 Sean Casey, 1B
4 Austin Kearns, RF
5 Adam Dunn, LF
6 Joe Randa, 3B
7 Rich Aurilia, SS
8 Javier Valentin, C
9 Ramon Ortiz, P

Starting Lineups
No. Milwaukee
1 Brady Clark, CF
2 Bill Hall, 2B
3 Geoff Jenkins, RF
4 Carlos Lee, LF
5 Lyle Overbay, 1B
6 Damian Miller, C
7 Russell Branyan, 3B
8 J.J. Hardy, SS
9 Doug Davis, P

[Falls City Beer]

R-r-r-r-Rich Aurilia-a-a-a.

[tbball10]

lets go ramon!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Team Clark]

Does anyone else giggle a little when they look at our lineup?

I can only imagine this as Stengel's '56 Lineup with Miley's influence:

1. McDougald SS
2. Howard RF
3. Carey 3B
4. Bauer LF
5. Skowron 1B
6. Mantle CF
7. Berra C
8. Martin 2B
9. Ford P

[gitrdunn44]

I don't understand why Lopez isn't starting more. Hopefully Miley realizes soon that Aurilla isn't that great.

[Dunner44]

Damnit Dave, Bat someone else 2nd. Griff is to slow = double plays of casey's bat. Or if you continue to bat Griff #2, put Dunn 3rd.

[Fullboat]

Was Wily Mo traded or what.

[thorn]

good to see Valentin in there instead of Larue. Larue is struggling something fierce.

[redsfan30]

Was Wily Mo traded or what.
He's still getting over a muscle pull in his leg last week.

[Hobo]

Mark Mann said he'd be available to start today, what happened?
:thumbdown

[redsfan30]

Mark Mann said he'd be available to start today, what happened?
:thumbdown
What happened was Junior started to get hot and Kearns did the same.

If he should start over anyone right now, it should be Dunn and that's not going to happen so right now there isn't anyplace for Pena to play.

[westofyou]

If he should start over anyone right now, it should be Dunn

You mean "today" or everyday?

Because their is no way Dunn should sit for Pena on any regular schedule.

[redsfan30]

You mean "today" or everyday?

Because their is no way Dunn should sit for Pena on any regular schedule.
Today.

[Fullboat]

[QUOTE=redsfan30]What happened was Junior started to get hot and Kearns did the same.

If he should start over anyone right now, it should be Dunn and that's not going to happen so right now there isn't anyplace for Pena to play.[/QUOTE

Well I would have given Casey a day off and put Pena in the OF.

[Hobo]

Dunn should be out there everyday, Pena was hitting as good as anyone before he went down, it's like Pena has to hit a homerun every game he plays or he'll sit the next, talk about pressure. I thought Grif, and Casey were going to get more games off then they have so far.

[OnBaseMachine]

Why should Dunn sit today?

Dunn has a 1.167 OPS in 9 atbats vs Davis.

[westofyou]

Today.

Dunn has been poor against LH's lately (IIRC) and I could see the switch with the LH on... Miley would do it IMO.. Possibly they're playing it safe and just keeping him from running if they can.

The Reds injury admittance is playoff hockey caliber, just pure soundbites and grey areas.

[Redmachine2003]

Who were they talking about in the pregame show that tore his A. tendon again?

[OnBaseMachine]

Who were they talking about in the pregame show that tore his A. tendon again?

Rob Stratton. Tore the same ACL twice within 2 weeks.

[Danny Serafini]

Ouch, how on earth did he do that? I didn't think he'd be doing any real rehab yet.

[RFS62]

Household accident, I heard.

[BrooklynRedz]

Rob Stratton. Tore the same ACL twice within 2 weeks.

That's gotta be some kinda record, right?

[Danny Serafini]

Ball one outside to Freel and we're under way!

[Elam]

Griffey Ground Rule Double

[Elam]

RBI single for Casey

[Danny Serafini]

Casey singles him home, quick 1-0 lead.

[redsfanmia]

Great to see production out of Griff and Casey!!! Patience is a virtue.

[Elam]

Kearns grounds out casey to 2nd

[Elam]

Dunn grounds out to 1st
End Top of 1st 1-0 Reds

[RedsBaron]

Does anyone else giggle a little when they look at our lineup?

I can only imagine this as Stengel's '56 Lineup with Miley's influence:

1. McDougald SS
2. Howard RF
3. Carey 3B
4. Bauer LF
5. Skowron 1B
6. Mantle CF
7. Berra C
8. Martin 2B
9. Ford P
Miley might have been starting Phil Rizzuto at shortstop, despite his .231 average and age of 37 years-he had more experience than McDougald. Miley might have given some starts in the outfield to Enos Slaughter, age 40 and a proven veteran, over 24 year old Mickey Mantle.

[Danny Serafini]

Welcome back, Ramon. 2 run homer by Jenkins.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jenkins 2 run homer. 2-1 Brew Crew

[Falls City Beer]

Glad to see interest remains so high. :p:

[Aronchis]

What a awfull time for Ohio baseball right now. Between the Reds and Indians, they could take you to the drink.

[Elam]

Inning over all three out ground outs to Randa
2-1 Brew Crew

[Falls City Beer]

What a awfull time for Ohio baseball right now. Between the Reds and Indians, they could take you to the drink.

It's punishment for electing Bush. :laugh:

[RedRoser]

Thanks for providing the game thread, since I'm in my classroom working today and have no radio access.
Oh, and thanks also for allowing me to check my "Joined" date (and therefore making sure I'm cleared to post in the future) by making this reply on the game thread. :D

---RedRoser

[SandyD]

Miley might have been starting Phil Rizzuto at shortstop, despite his .231 average and age of 37 years-he had more experience than McDougald. Miley might have given some starts in the outfield to Enos Slaughter, age 40 and a proven veteran, over 24 year old Mickey Mantle.

OT: anyone have the Red Barber CD? Ernie Harwell, I think, remembered hearing Barber make a call like "Slaughterer on first, he'll be running like the wind." Of course, I'm sure that referred to a younger Slaughterer. :)

That phrase now passes through my mind ... every time I read or hear Slaughterer's name.

[Danny Serafini]

Carlos Lee just misplayed a Randa fly into a 2 base error to start the second. Broke the wrong way and wasn't able to get back in time.

[Falls City Beer]

Aurilia is ah-some.

[Danny Serafini]

Aurilia is ah-some.

I'm sensing a tiny bit of sarcasm there. ;)

[Danny Serafini]

Trivia question:

Who has played the most games at 1B for the Reds?

A. Ted Kluszewski
B. Tony Perez
C. Dan Driessen

Answer in the 8th inning

[Aronchis]

Not as ah-some as Valentin.

[Falls City Beer]

I'm sensing a tiny bit of sarcasm there. ;)

When Valentin consistently gets better ABs than you, you're hurtin' for certain.

[Larkin411]

I'm watching the game on mlb.com tv right now(albeit on a slight delay). For some reason they're not blacking them out for me anymore. Does anyone know if this is a new policy or did I just get lucky?

[Danny Serafini]

Inning recap

Randa reaches 2nd on error by Lee
Aurilia pops out to 1st
Valentin grounds out to 3rd
Ortiz Ks

2-1 MIL, mid 2nd

[Kc61]

I guess I just don't understand the thinking of this manager. Why does Valentin play today against a lefty? He can't hit right handed. Rest Larue against occasional righties, so Valentin can hit left handed, which he does quite well. Let Larue hit against lefties.

This manager makes moves that seem random. I'm liking him less and less.

[writerdan33]

test test

[Danny Serafini]

1-2-3 for Ortiz, that's more like it.

Branyan flies out to center
Hardy grounds to short
Davis Ks

After 2, 2-1 MIL

[Danny Serafini]

test test

You passed!

[Danny Serafini]

Anyone know who the heck J. J. Hardy is, never heard of him.

[PuffyPig]

Anyone know who the heck J. J. Hardy is, never heard of him.

He's one of the top rated prospects in the majors.

[Elam]

Anyone know who the heck J. J. Hardy is, never heard of him.
Rookie first year in the majors were hes gotten more than 8 AB
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/jj_hardy.shtml

[GIK]

test test

Dan, if you're checking if you can still post in Cincinnati Reds Talk, the new format does not activate until some point tomorrow. Just a FYI. :)

[Danny Serafini]

Davis just returned Ortiz's 1-2-3 with one of his own.

Freel pops out to 1st
Griffey flies out to the warning track in center
Casey grounds out to 2nd

Middle 3rd, 2-1 MIL

[Chip R]

Clark and Hall strike again with back to back doubles to give the Brewers a 3-1 lead.

[Danny Serafini]

Brewers add another one, Brady Clark led off with a double, Bill Hall follows with another double. 3-1 MIL

[Aronchis]

Ortiz should have stayed on the DL some more.

[flyer85]

I believe it is Hoover Time.

[CTA513]

Since the Reds are losing, the bullpen will give up 0 runs today.

[Falls City Beer]

Since the Reds are losing, the bullpen will give up 0 runs today.

Solid prediction. Nothing more fearsome than a lead.

[Aronchis]

Since the Reds are losing, the bullpen will give up 0 runs today.

Then when the Reds go back up ahead again, they will give up a 5 spot.

[Falls City Beer]

Folks, it ain't easy to walk Jenkins.

[Joseph]

I guess I just don't understand the thinking of this manager. Why does Valentin play today against a lefty? He can't hit right handed. Rest Larue against occasional righties, so Valentin can hit left handed, which he does quite well. Let Larue hit against lefties.

This manager makes moves that seem random. I'm liking him less and less.

I think Valentin is Ortiz personal catcher since they both are Spanish speaking. The logic is better communication.

[OnBaseMachine]

This one is getting ugly.

[Aronchis]

The Night of the Long Knives is coming very very soon for this club.

[Falls City Beer]

I want a follow-up article on those "true-believers" like Casey and Dunn after the Milton signing. Where are they now?

[WVRedsFan]

This one is getting ugly.

To be honest, this whole series has been ugly. We lost a 4-3 game that we should have won. We blew a 4 run lead in the 7th inning in the second game and now this. Changes in the lineup need to be made, but what do you do with the pitching? This is just a mess.

[flyer85]

doesn't seem like a one run loss is in the cards.

[traderumor]

I think Valentin is Ortiz personal catcher since they both are Spanish speaking. The logic is better communication.Does one finger and two fingers mean something different in Spanish? :evil:

[OnBaseMachine]

Changes in the lineup need to be made, but what do you do with the pitching? This is just a mess.

Don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Miley refuses to change the lineup..no matter how bad it's slumping.

[flyer85]

Changes in the lineup need to be made, but what do you do with the pitching? This is just a mess.fire DanO and hire a GM who at least has a clue.

[SteelSD]

Does one finger and two fingers mean something different in Spanish? :evil:

Considering how Ortiz is pitching, the finger I'm thinking of means the same in every language.

[OnBaseMachine]

It's looking like the only thing worth watching this summer will be Dunn making a push for 50 homers.

[PuffyPig]

I want a follow-up article on those "true-believers" like Casey and Dunn after the Milton signing. Where are they now?

I'm betting they would sy "that we aren't playing very well right now, but that we have alot of players with a history of productioon, so we will improve".

[traderumor]

Don't expect that to happen anytime soon. Miley refuses to change the lineup..no matter how bad it's slumping.

The lineup isn't the problem, folks. Hasn't been all year. Offense goes up and down, the pitching has been consistently bad.

[Falls City Beer]

It's looking like the only thing worth watching this summer will be Dunn making a push for 50 homers.

And the re-emergence of Kearns. The possible emergence of Claussen (as long as he ignores his coaches). But yeah.

[traderumor]

Considering how Ortiz is pitching, the finger I'm thinking of means the same in every language.Hey, I wondered who would take advantage of that setup. Way to hit that hangin' curve out of the park. Heard that's been going around.

[Aronchis]

Poor Belisle, what a mess to inherit.

[OnBaseMachine]

The lineup isn't the problem, folks. Hasn't been all year. Offense goes up and down, the pitching has been consistently bad.

Oh, no doubt about that. The pitching has been horrible, but Miley's lineup construction hasn't exactly helped the offense. Starting Aurilia and batting Dunn 5th have cost this team a few runs.

[redsfaninbsg]

Sadly I'm just laughing today at this mess.

[Kc61]

Don't blame Ortiz. He didn't do that great in his minor league tune up. Probably will take him awhile. Probably shouldn't have pitched today, probably needed more tune up in the minors for awhile.

Perhaps somebody in the Reds organization will give some thought to this team and what is happening.

[flyer85]

this is high comedy

[Falls City Beer]

Hugs all around after the game from Casey. And teddy bears.

[flyer85]

Don't blame Ortiz. He didn't do that great in his minor league tune up. or in the last couple of years as a starter for the Angels.

[SteelSD]

Hey, I wondered who would take advantage of that setup. Way to hit that hangin' curve out of the park. Heard that's been going around.

Speaking of hanging curves, I see Belisle is now in the game.

And, forevermore, I shall refer to Ramon Ortiz as "Tostada".

[OnBaseMachine]

And the re-emergence of Kearns. The possible emergence of Claussen (as long as he ignores his coaches). But yeah.

Yeah, that too.

Hopefully EE can come up and play well, after Randa is traded for a good pitching prospect. :pray:

[CTA513]

After a few more runs score it will be time to put the bench players in and let the regulars sit/rest.

[Aronchis]

Hugs all around after the game from Casey. And teddy bears.

Casey will be busy with the pitching staff, and maybe Gullet too.

[redsfaninbsg]

Did Kearns not pitch in high school? Maybe they can put him in and see what he can do, it cant be much worse.

[d2pmr11]

There has to be a joke out there concerning Belisle and Valentin and double-A batteries.

[CTA513]

Did Kearns not pitch in high school? Maybe they can put him in and see what he can do, it cant be much worse.

:thumbup:

[Casey_21]

I want a follow-up article on those "true-believers" like Casey and Dunn after the Milton signing. Where are they now?

The same place as everyone else on the team.

[Danny Serafini]

Looks like I picked the right time to step away. Zeke the Wiggle Hound was giving me a bored look, time to play some frisbee. Certainly better than listening to that inning.

[Falls City Beer]

Reds Hot!

Alright kids, till tomorrow night.

[Danny Serafini]

For those who didn't get to witness that mess, here's the inning recap:

Clark double to left
Hall double to right, Clark scores
Jenkins walk
Lee single to left, Hall scores
Overbay single to 1st, bases loaded
Miller HBP, Jenkins scores
Pitching change - Belinda replaces Ortiz
Branyan walks, Lee scores
Hardy K
Davis K
Clark grounds to short.

It the time it took to type all that out the Reds went down 1-2-3 in the 4th. 6-1 MIL

[OnBaseMachine]

I thought Dunn would destroy Milwaukee's crappy starters. Instead, the exact opposite has happened.

[Danny Serafini]

What's with that stupid Pepsi commercial with the two people rattling off Italian food items to each other? Looking forward to 5 more months of that. :barf:

[M2]

Perhaps somebody in the Reds organization will give some thought to this team and what is happening.

I submit the time for that was last November. This isn't exactly something you couldn't have seen coming.

[Danny Serafini]

Bill Hall leads off the inning with a homer to center. 7-1 MIL. Don't know what else to say right now.

[OSURedLeg]

:runaway:

[M2]

Bill Hall owns the Reds.

[flyer85]

I thought Dunn would destroy Milwaukee's crappy starters. Instead, the exact opposite has happened.he has been off, missing very hittable pitches, it happens. The bad pitching staff is the problem.

[butlerbulldogs]

i won't be legal to post after today due to the new rule alignment, 3 years of committment to the site, but i am not to worried about missing a bill hall hr or commenting on it for that matter, gonna miss posting though on other reds stuff

[baseballPAP]

All right. Get DanO on the phone and make him work a deal for Bill Hall. This guy is worth a couple prospects just so he can't kill us every time the Brewers come around.

[flyer85]

Bill Hall owns the Reds.thats puts him on a growing list.

[flyer85]

All right. Get DanO on the phone and make him work a deal for Bill Hall. This guy is worth a couple prospects just so he can't kill us every time the Brewers come around.if he did that the Reds would need a 50 man roster.

[baseballPAP]

if he did that the Reds would need a 50 man roster.

Now THAT was funny! :beerme:

[baseballPAP]

Think its time for a shakeup? Cut Weber, demote Ortiz to the BP, call up whoever is the hottest starter at Louisville, maybe more????

[traderumor]

thats puts him on a growing list.that is often comprised of average or below average hitters against the rest of the league. If it were a few, that is expected, but each team has three or four guys in their lineup that have astronomical numbers against our pitching. I've seen a lot of bad teams over 30 years of following this game, but I do not recall a franchise (Rockies don't count) with this bad of pitching that continues going in the same direction when they have turnover.

[Puffy]

In the past two days Reds pitchers have walked Russ Braynon 5 times. Rich Aurilia has walked 4 times in 74 plate appearances this year.

I'm just sayin that maybe Aurilia might wanna be more patient.

[traderumor]

All right. Get DanO on the phone and make him work a deal for Bill Hall. This guy is worth a couple prospects just so he can't kill us every time the Brewers come around.I'd rather we go the route of adding pitchers that can get a below average hack out.

[redsfaninbsg]

I'm 18 years old and a diehard sports fan what you older Reds fans are going through is much like what I'm going through with Maryland Basketball. Its amazing how your teams can go from being so dominate to so poor.

[Danny Serafini]

I can't believe I'm actually typing this, but the Reds sure were fortunate to hold the Brewers to just a run that inning. This is not the series Iwas expecting.

Hall HR to center
Jenkins fly out to right
Lee fly out to left
Overbay single to center
Miller single to center
Branyan walk to load the bases
Hardy K

After 4, 7-1 MIL

[Danny Serafini]

Weber is warming up. Rejoice!

[flyer85]

Think its time for a shakeup? Cut Weber, demote Ortiz to the BP, call up whoever is the hottest starter at Louisville, maybe more????Depends on what your after. Their problem, awful pitching, is not something cam be fixed during the course of the season. The can do some things to get from awful to just bad but nothing that would make them a playoff contender.

[flyer85]

Reds have thrown 111 pitches in 4 innings.

[WVSteveVT]

I'm 18 years old and a diehard sports fan what you older Reds fans are going through is much like what I'm going through with Maryland Basketball. Its amazing how your teams can go from being so dominate to so poor.

you're from sw va? don't waste your time on maryland basketball. Pick up the team in your own back yard. The up and comers have plenty of room on the bandwagon. Just my friendly advice :D

[Spring~Fields]

Speaking of hanging curves, I see Belisle is now in the game.

And, forevermore, I shall refer to Ramon Ortiz as "Tostada".

Does anything in the numbers or spreadsheets respectively indicate that the Reds will improve anytime this year over what we have experienced so far?

[Danny Serafini]

Wily Mo goes deep! At least there's a bright spot.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pena homers 7-2

[traderumor]

Little consolation, but the Astros just put a seven spot up on Prior. Yes, that's correct, 8 ER off Prior. :eek:

[Larry Schuler]

All the Reds need to do to regain respect is to at least PUT UP A FIGHT in the losing cause. Like Wily Mo Pena just did. That is exciting, respectable baseball.

[redsfaninbsg]

I've pulled for my Terps since I was small, I've come to the conclusion any team I root for ends up losing. Maryland, Redskins, Reds, Wizards, and the list goes on.

[Danny Serafini]

So far:

Aurilia grounds to short
Valentin flys out to left
Pena PH for Belisle, HR to center

[KronoRed]

Wily Mo cha cha cha Wily Mo :D

[flyer85]

Does anything in the numbers or spreadsheets respectively indicate that the Reds will improve anytime this year over what we have experienced so far?Improve some, not enough to make this team a winner. This is what happens with a staff compsed almost entirely of below league average types.

[flyer85]

too bad wmp didn't PH on Friday

[redsfaninbsg]

If Griffey Homers here I might just watch the rest of this game.

[flyer85]

All the Reds need to do to regain respect is to at least PUT UP A FIGHT in the losing cause. easier said than done when almost every pitcher gets knocked around.

[redsfaninbsg]

Well, he didn't so its off to work on a presentation. Hopefully the Reds can make some way against the Cards this week.

[Danny Serafini]

Freel walks, Griffey flies out to RF

Middle 5th, 7-2 MIL

[flyer85]

If Griffey Homers here I might just watch the rest of this game.i guess you're done

[traderumor]

Wily Mo cha cha cha Wily Mo :DNot that will help him get in our "stacked" lineup ;) :bang: Lopez hits a grand slam, Aurilia is hitting .220, which is actually uglier than it looks, and he is sitting the bench. Methinks idiots are running this show.

[Spring~Fields]

Maybe when the weather gets hot the pitchers and hitters will get in sync and perform better.

[Danny Serafini]

Doug Davis, he of the career .030 batting average, just led off with a single. Weber is on to pitch by the way.

[flyer85]

Maybe when the weather gets hot the pitchers and hitters will get in sync and perform better.and that will still be below league average ... just not as far.

[SirFelixCat]

Does anyone else see a shakeup coming (praying for) similar to what happened after the early season series in San Juan last year?

[flyer85]

Does anyone else see a shakeup coming (praying for) similar to what happened after the early season series in San Juan last year?that was 2 years ago and was done by JB. Nothing similar coming from DanO

[SirFelixCat]

Weber is our answer to Bill Hall ;)

[KronoRed]

Does anyone else see a shakeup coming (praying for) similar to what happened after the early season series in San Juan last year?

I don't see anything in AAA that is better then what we've got :(

[traderumor]

If anyone, and I mean anyone, does not see the writing on the wall with yet another regime, consider that the Brewers were hitting .232 and barely had a .300 OPB coming into this series. And, as some smarter than I pointed out the day O'Brien was hired, no real changes were made. The only thing that will change this franchise's direction at this point is a house cleaning. And not just getting rid of players, but from the COO on down to the major league coaching staff, save perhaps Chris Chambliss.

[SirFelixCat]

I don't see anything in AAA that is better then what we've got :(

Sad, but I think I have to agree. Argh. :cry:

[Danny Serafini]

Here's the inning:

Davis single to left
Clark single to left
Hall K
Jenkins fielder's choice, out made a 2nd
Lee pops out to 3rd

After 5, 7-2 MIL

[SirFelixCat]

Weber with a 1-2-3-4-5 inning. But hey, he DID get Hall and didn't allow an ER ;)

[Aronchis]

If anyone, and I mean anyone, does not see the writing on the wall with yet another regime, consider that the Brewers were hitting .232 and barely had a .300 OPB coming into this series. And, as some smarter than I pointed out the day O'Brien was hired, no real changes were made. The only thing that will change this franchise's direction at this point is a house cleaning. And not just getting rid of players, but from the COO on down to the major league coaching staff, save perhaps Chris Chambliss.

That is up to Carl Lindner. He has to fire most of the organization. The Reds seemed to go on the assumption that Bowden was the main problem and that the current pieces were being "repressed" by him. Getting DanO has brought SOME changes, but it hasn't brought signifigent enough changes where it can effect the major league team IMO such as Ownership sticking with Miley/Gullet for example, I think if DanO had the final say, neither one of those men would be here. Maybe in a few years possibly the Reds can salvage something out of O'brien, but the Reds struggle post-Bowden is as much to do what he left behind than his individual self.

[flyer85]

seems like Lindner is the problem. As I recall the rumor was than Allen wanted to hire Krivsky, but Linder decided DanO was to be the man.

[Danny Serafini]

1-2-3 again for Davis:

Casey grounds out to 2nd
Kearns K
Dunn K

Middle 6th, 7-2 MIL

[SteelSD]

Does anything in the numbers or spreadsheets respectively indicate that the Reds will improve anytime this year over what we have experienced so far?

No. There's nothing surprising about what's going on right now.

[Danny Serafini]

For the optimists out there the Cardinals lost to Atlanta 2-1, so at least the Reds won't lose any ground.

[Aronchis]

seems like Lindner is the problem. As I recall the rumor was than Allen wanted to hire Krivsky, but Linder decided DanO was to be the man.

and your also giving DanO all the blame. He has one arm tied around his back and I wouldn't be surprised if MANY individuals inside this organization DanO would like to fire(Allen,Miley,Gullet to name a few). The good ole boy system is alive and well. Krivisky would also be tied by these constraints.

[M2]

Does anyone else see a shakeup coming (praying for) similar to what happened after the early season series in San Juan last year?

The problem arises in how does DanO shakeup a team he built? He chose to put this club on the field. Instead of tearing down the remnants of JimBo's mess, he sought to patch it. He brought in older players with shaky profiles and this is what you get.

He knew when he took over that there wasn't a lot of help coming from the minors. And the young players DanO's acquired who can step in and be part of the rebuilding process are?

I made this point in the offseason (when it was wildly unpopular) and I'll make it again - DanO boxed himself into this corner. He's got nowhere to go if this club goes down the tubes because he's neglected anything resembling a rebuilding process.

[flyer85]

and your also giving DanO all the blame. He has one arm tied around his back and I wouldn't be surprised if MANY individuals inside this organization DanO would like to fire(Allen,Miley,Gullet to name a few). The good ole boy system is alive and well. Krivisky would also be tied by these constraints.DanO is going down the wrong road. It doesn't matter who is marching with him. They are on the wrong road. He is just JB with more cash and a slower trigger but with no clue how to build a winning small market organization.

[Danny Serafini]

Another run on the board. Overbay led off with a double (he's now 4-4), Miller followed with a double. 8-2 MIL

[Danny Serafini]

Branyan moved Miller to 3rd on a ground out, Hardy drives him home with a single. 9-2 MIL

[flyer85]

Instead of tearing down the remnants of JimBo's mess, he sought to patch it.and anyone who pointed that out in the off-season got accused of not being a fan, being a pessimist, or worse.

[KronoRed]

I'm going to Best Buy to drown my sorrows.

[flyer85]

Branyan moved Miller to 3rd on a ground out, Hardy drives him home with a single. 9-2 MILand people are shocked when bad pitchers pitch ... bad

[flyer85]

I'm going to Best Buy to drown my sorrows.what do they sell there to "drown" your sorrows?

[Casey_21]

Another great pitched game.. I say we bring in Valintine to put the lettuce in the taco. Oh, by the way, seems Weathers is pitching back to normal.

[M2]

and your also giving DanO all the blame. He has one arm tied around his back and I wouldn't be surprised if MANY individuals inside this organization DanO would like to fire(Allen,Miley,Gullet to name a few). The good ole boy system is alive and well. Krivisky would also be tied by these constraints.

Given his background, I'm fairly certain Krivsky would have pursued a rebuiliding policy. I'm guessing DanO told Lindner he could work with the scraps on the table while Krivsky likely gave a more sober, less starry-eyed assessment of the club.

Mind you, I'm fully of the opinion that nothing much will improve as long as Lindner's the controlling owner of the club. He simply doesn't understand the business.

[flyer85]

Another great pitched game.. I say we bring in Valintine to put the lettuce in the taco. Oh, by the way, seems Weathers is pitching back to normal.As long as DanO is around, you had better get used to it.

[membengal]

Pena homers 7-2

Just stepped back in to note that I saw the HR note on the ESPN crawl and got excited for a small second.

Dear lord I wish there was a way to get him in the lineup consistently. I love watching him and Dunn hit. And Kearns. They excite me as a fan. I really wish we could see them all in together for an extended period of time. That would be swell...

[flyer85]

Given his background, I'm fairly certain Krivsky would have pursued a rebuiliding policy. I'm guessing DanO told Lindner he could work with the scraps on the table while Krivsky likely gave a more sober, less starry-eyed assessment of the club.

Mind you, I'm fully of the opinion that nothing much will improve as long as Lindner's the controlling owner of the club. He simply doesn't understand the business.A great read would be to hear the real story of what DanO told Lindner to sell him versus what he heard from Krivsky. The only real hope is for Lindner to sell the team.

[membengal]

Mind you, I'm fully of the opinion that nothing much will improve as long as Lindner's the controlling owner of the club. He simply doesn't understand the business.

Yup. Under Lindner, they don't really know what they are. They certainly are not big spenders, but they have also proven unable to put the right resources into developing the minors in that span, which would theoretically give them a chance to compete a la the Twinkies or A's. Hard to cut costs on payroll and then balk at spending money to draft the guys they should because of signability.

Wrong decisions from the top down, with the entire franchise affected. Painful.

[Aronchis]

DanO is going down the wrong road. It doesn't matter who is marching with him. They are on the wrong road. He is just JB with more cash and a slower trigger but with no clue how to build a winning small market organization.

and that road isn't all DanO. How much of overpaying Milton, signing Aurilia/Randa, trading for Ortiz was DanO's view, how much was Lindner's pushing, considering Dan having to deal with the Bowden remanent, that is also going to retard player evaluation IMO? Dan traded Reitsma which seem to signal that a major rebuilding job was underway. But things stagnated after that. Graves, Casey and Wilson are still here.

I think Lindner may be the reason why. I can't totally confirm it, but a new GM coming into the array, I would want to put my own stamp on things and DanO has only had little leeway in that area. Krivisky may have been rejected in part, because he wasn't going to tolerate "keeping the sacred cows" on and off the field as DanO was.

[flyer85]

Just stepped back in to note that I saw the HR note on the ESPN crawl and got excited for a small second.

Dear lord I wish there was a way to get him in the lineup consistently. I love watching him and Dunn hit. And Kearns. They excite me as a fan. I really wish we could see them all in together for an extended period of time. That would be swell...iif there is a future, they are it. If there is any winning to be done in the next 3-4 years it will be because of them

[OnBaseMachine]

Minor league news: William Bergolla is a double shy of the cycle and the game is only in the 4th inning. EE is 2-3.

[flyer85]

Dan traded Reitsma which seem to signal that a major rebuilding job was underway.Was it? I saw it more as a the confirmation DanO had little clue what he was doing. He traded the best arm in his pen for a couple of middling prospects. At least JB understood that for a small market club you have to have a strong pen because you aren't going to have 5 solid starters. Dano has given us the worst pens in Reds history. Reitsma certainy wouldn't have rescued the situation but he was a pitcher the Reds could not afford to do without. I have never heard a rational explanation for the trade.

If there was a major rebuilding effort it was thrown out the window in this past offseason.

[Casey_21]

There's the man!! Old Vali gonna have a go at the Brew Crew's batting practice. This should be fun :D

[WMR]

People are exactly right. This team needs major surgery from ownership on down. Until then, it seems that everyone involved in a decision-making role is intent on perpetuating this daily comedic error of managerial and ownership and personnel decisions.

[SirFelixCat]

Going back to last season, I asked why Valentine was with the Reds. He has done NOTHING, ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY NOTHING to change my mind. ugh

[Casey_21]

What else is there to do but laugh??

[OnBaseMachine]

12-3 after Overbay hits his 3rd HR of the series. He's 5-5 this game.

[Aronchis]

Was it? I saw it more as a the confirmation DanO had little clue what he was doing. He traded the best arm in his pen for a couple of middling prospects. At least JB understood that for a small market club you have to have a strong pen because you aren't going to have 5 solid starters. Dano has given us the worst pens in Reds history. Reitsma certainy wouldn't have rescued the situation but he was a pitcher the Reds could not afford to do without. I have never heard a rational explanation for the trade.

If there was a major rebuilding effort it was thrown out the window in this past offseason.

Don't agree. Remember, if you are going with a major overhaul, it meant throwing away 2004-2006. Reitsma, by 2007, would have cost in the 3-3.5 range. So they picked up 2 arms who would be on the plans timeline. Nelson, who had been mentioned as a better fit for the BP, is tearing up AA as the closer this year, no surprise from me. He replaces Reitsma, Bong is the throw which gave the Reds another lefty arm. Granted, now the Reitsma deal looks stupid. I think DanO may have been punished by Lindner for that deal since no more "sacred cows" were traded and stopped any "firesale" such as Wilson or Graves trade during that summer.

[flyer85]

we'v e turned Overbay into Lou Gehrig.

[Spring~Fields]

No. There's nothing surprising about what's going on right now.

Thank you.

I was hoping that my eyes were deceiving me.

Today looks too much like the past four years.

[flyer85]

Nelson who had been mentioned as a better fit for the BP, is tearing up AA as the closer this yearand it doesn't mean anything. A lot of guys pitch well in the pen in AA and can't cut it in the majors. Nelson is know to have a good slider but trading a sure thing for single roll of the dice is a sure recipe for failure.

[Casey_21]

I didn't hear who's up in the bullpen, but he looks like the reast of them.. 40 ish with a spare tire.

[Aronchis]

and it doesn't mean anything. A lot of guys pitch well in the pen in AA and can't cut it in the majors. Nelson is know to have a good slider but trading a sure thing for single roll of the dice is a sure recipe for failure.

Is it? Does that mean trading Sean Casey, "the sure thing"? You deal what you can, Reitsma didn't fit DanO's plan, though he fitted Lindners.

[flyer85]

The bp prediction soemone made earlier of zero runs didn't quite hold up.

[Tony Cloninger]

Looks like plenty of candidates today for the Joe Hoerner award. :thumbup:

[flyer85]

Reitsma didn't fit DanO's planand nobody has any idea exactly what DanOs plan is? I defy anyone watching the Reds with DanO for the last year and a half to build a rational framework that explains the depth and width of the decisions this organization has made.

Certainly DanO has never explained himself. Instead whenever he's asked a question he seems to morph into a politician.

[traderumor]

Given his background, I'm fairly certain Krivsky would have pursued a rebuiliding policy. I'm guessing DanO told Lindner he could work with the scraps on the table while Krivsky likely gave a more sober, less starry-eyed assessment of the club.

Mind you, I'm fully of the opinion that nothing much will improve as long as Lindner's the controlling owner of the club. He simply doesn't understand the business.I think it would be more key if the person in John Allen's position understood the business. Marge Schott didn't understand the business either, but she was willing to hire folks that did and be able to trust them to open up her pocketbook to help the big league club win. Not too many owners do understand the business, they simply hire a top man who does.

[flyer85]

Today at least should quiet the crowd who were fantasizing about the quality of the Reds pitching.

[Aronchis]

and nobody has any idea exactly what DanOs plan is? I defy anyone watching the Reds with DanO for the last year and a half to build a rational framework that explains the depth and width of the decisions this organization has made.

Of course you don't know the plan. Lindner ripped it up into shreads after the trade even before when he wouldn't let DanO hire his own manager. I am not saying the DanO plan would have been successfull. But if you put Billy Beane into this mess, he would struggle with it.

[traderumor]

And today is just a good ole-fashioned butt whooping, which one could take it on the chin and move on, were it not coming on the heels of what happened in Chicago and yesterday's ballgame. Now, we are simply seeing another historically bad pitching staff, getting taken to task by one of the most offensively challenged teams in either league.

[flyer85]

I am not saying the DanO plan would have been successfull. that's good since no one knows what it is or was or might have been.

[Larry Schuler]

Bill Hall, the best .230 hitter I've ever seen.

[flyer85]

Bill Hall, the best .230 hitter I've ever seen.they aren't hitting .230 anymore once they get done with the Reds.

[Casey_21]

You guys still want to moan about Casey? Not only does he own half of our hits tonight (pathetic), but has scored half of our runs as well.

[Danny Serafini]

Trivia answer from seemingly 17 hours ago came up. Dan Driessen has more games at first than any other Red, 1271. Kluszewki just behind at 1255, didn't say how many Perez had.

[Tony Cloninger]

I do not really moan about casey.....but i would rather have him traded for some pitching so WMP can play and Dunn can ove to first.

Trouble is when Casey is on he is the only contact hitter, besides Randa that this team has. Maybe Freel too....although for a singles hitter he K's more than he should.

And with EE coming next year you will have one more free swinger to boot.



Hall was batting BELOW .200 when this series started.

[Danny Serafini]

The comeback is on! Randa doubles home Casey. I smell an 11 run 9th!

[Casey_21]

Wow.. Swept by possibly the worst team in the N.L.... We have a great season in store for us, let me tell you.. Especially with our outstanding pitching... GO REDS!!!

[Danny Serafini]

OK, maybe not. Now final, 13-3 MIL.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

At least the Reds aren't teasing the fans with their smoke and mirrors first place in June routine we have seen the last two years. Best to get any hope out of the way early.

[Mutaman]

This is very depressing.

[Mutaman]

I think the problem is there are too many people connected with the Reds organization who don't know a baseball from a banana.

[KronoRed]

what do they sell there to "drown" your sorrows?

Some people drink, I buy baseball movies ;)

[Unassisted]

It seems to me like the Reds have been swept by Milwaukee in a series every year since Milwaukee moved over to the NL. And every year, it's always unexpected and disappointing, since Milwaukee is traditionally perceived as a bottom-dweller in the division. By the same token, if the Reds should sweep Milwaukee in the next series they play against them, I don't think that means folks should start lining up for playoff tickets.

One series does not a season make.

[KittyDuran]

It seems to me like the Reds have been swept by Milwaukee in a series every year since Milwaukee moved over to the NL. And every year, it's always unexpected and disappointing, since Milwaukee is traditionally perceived as a bottom-dweller in the division. By the same token, if the Reds should sweep Milwaukee in the next series they play against them, I don't think that means folks should start lining up for playoff tickets.

One series does not a season make.Yep, I said in another thread, the Reds seem to :owned: by the Brewers. Maybe the Brewers play better because they see the Reds as a team they can beat. What will be strange is if the Reds turn around and sweep the Cards. :beerme:

[Unassisted]

May 1, 2005

Cincinnati 3, Milwaukee 13 at Miller Park
Winning pitcher - Doug Davis (3-3)

Losing pitcher - Ramon Ortiz (0-1)

Cincinnati Runs: 3, Hits: 5, Errors 0
Milwaukee Runs: 13, Hits: 19, Errors 1

HR: CIN: W. Pena (6) MIL: B. Hall (1) G. Jenkins (3) L. Overbay (5)
Cincinnati Record:(10-14)

Next Game: May 02, 2005 07:10 PM ET vs. Cardinals


http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=3284495

Brewers 13 Reds 3
MILWAUKEE Two days after hitting a pair of homers in one game, Lyle Overbay had a career-high five hits to help Milwaukee belt Cincinnati 13-to-3. One of Overbay's hits was a three-run homer. He has a nine-game hitting streak with 17 hits in his last 34 at-bats. Brady Clark had four hits for the Brewers.
Doug Davis pitched a five-hitter for his third win. He fanned eight and walked one.

Ramon Ortiz, activated from the disabled list before the game, gave up six runs and seven hits in two innings and took the loss in his first decision of the year.

[Mutaman]

It seems to me like the Reds have been swept by Milwaukee in a series every year since Milwaukee moved over to the NL. And every year, it's always unexpected and disappointing, since Milwaukee is traditionally perceived as a bottom-dweller in the division. By the same token, if the Reds should sweep Milwaukee in the next series they play against them, I don't think that means folks should start lining up for playoff tickets.

One series does not a season make.

Good point. Patience is not the strong suit of most fans. But the problem is I see plenty of signs that this is not a good team, and certainly not any better than the last few years. Wagner's and Ortiz' performances the last two days were really disappointing.

[CincyRedsFan30]

That was UGLY.

[CincyRedsFan30]

What upset me most about today's game(aside from Ortiz now having a 9.00 ERA on the season and the team losing 13-3) is that we couldn't draw any walks against Davis, who was having control issues this year. He came into the game allowing 17 BB in not many more than 17 IP.

Oh, and I disliked the lineup, but that apparently is a given. ;)