6-26-05 Reds and Indians

[redsfan30]

F. Lopez ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .299
R. Aurilia 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .264
S. Casey 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .321
K. Griffey Jr. dh 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .278
J. Randa 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .296
A. Dunn lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .246
W. Pena rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .273
J. LaRue c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .256
J. Romano cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .333
Totals 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Cleveland
AB R H RBI BB K LOB Season Avg
G. Sizemore cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .307
C. Crisp lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .289
T. Hafner dh 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .286
B. Broussard 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .253
R. Belliard 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .293
J. Gerut rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .295
C. Blake 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .219
A. Cora ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .221
J. Bard c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .176

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm so glad they called Encarnacion up to sit on the bench! Nevermind the fact that he could be getting atbats everyday at Louisville. Let's call up Homer Bailey next and let him be the batboy!

[traderumor]

EE has played in both games since he's been up, OBM.

[Cyclone792]

I'm so glad they called Encarnacion up to sit on the bench! Nevermind the fact that he could be getting atbats everyday at Louisville. Let's call up Homer Bailey next and let him be the batboy!

Romano starting and Encarnacion on the bench ...

My oh my ... :angry:

[CTA513]

I'm so glad they called Encarnacion up to sit on the bench! Nevermind the fact that he could be getting atbats everyday at Louisville. Let's call up Homer Bailey next and let him be the batboy!

What about Bergolla? he should play everyday to since hes up here... shouldnt he? Both Bergolla & Encarnacion are swinging some hot bats...

Encarnacion is going to get more than enough playing time once Randas gone. Untill then he can watch and learn from Randa.

[OnBaseMachine]

EE has played in both games since he's been up, OBM.

I forgot that he did get in the game last night, but it was only 2 atbats. In my opinion, he should be getting 3-4 atbats a night. If not, send him down.

Jason Romano should not start over Encarnacion.

[OnBaseMachine]

What about Bergolla? he should play everyday to since hes up here... shouldnt he? Both Bergolla & Encarnacion are swinging some hot bats...

Encarnacion is going to get more than enough playing time once Randas gone. Untill then he can watch and learn from Randa.

Bergolla should be in Triple-A. He is nowhere near close to being read for the major leagues.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they hang on to Randa. I've been reading that O'Brien is scared to make any moves...plus he wants his buddy Narron to lead this team to the .500 mark before the season ends.

[Matt700wlw]

...plus he wants his buddy Narron to lead this team to the .500 mark before the season ends.

I seriously doubt that will happen

[Falls City Beer]

Bergolla should be in Triple-A. He is nowhere near close to being read for the major leagues.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they hang on to Randa. I've been reading that O'Brien is scared to make any moves...plus he wants his buddy Narron to lead this team to the .500 mark before the season ends.

If this team is within 20 games sniffing distance of .500, I'd call Narron a rousing success.

[Cyclone792]

I seriously doubt that will happen

I'm not gonna say that I doubt it'll happen; I'll just say it won't happen. Unfortunately the problem is Dan O'Brien thinks it can happen.

Somebody :help: us ...

[KronoRed]

*sigh*
Dan O must be making the lineups out.

[DoogMinAmo]

I don't buy this BS of other GMs calling DanO a coward for not trading away great players. They are probably trying to low ball him, or get a steal, and DanO is not going for it. This has the maturity of a "what are you, chicken?" tactic. I sincerely doubt he is scared to deal, period. However, he wouldn't be the only one, especially around here, who may think the young stars will blossom into great players, so why get rid of them?

Now if he is not trading Aurilia and Randa, in face of good offers, then I would be worried. But right now we are hearing anonymously from the losers of the "Rob the Reds" sweepstakes, and I am not giving it the time of day.

[pedro]

I don't really have a problem with EE sitting and Griffey getting to play DH today. It's what they do with him over the entire second half of the season that is important. Not a single game.

[Ravenlord]

i would like to see Randa leave the game in the 6th or so in favor of EdE if the Reds have a lead...or being blown of the water.

[PuffyPig]

I forgot that he did get in the game last night, but it was only 2 atbats. In my opinion, he should be getting 3-4 atbats a night. If not, send him down.



2 games, 6 AB's means you got your wish.

[TeamBoone]

Did anyone hear Chris Welsh short blurb last night regarding Casey's spot in the order? I don't remember exactly what he said but something like "As long as Casey remains third in the order, especially with Griffey behind him, he's bound to see good pitches".

Made me wonder why the manager(s) haven't applied that theory to perhaps starting others in that slot, at least a few times, to see how it works out. Or, perhaps they don't think Casey will perform well if they drop him down and they're not willing to take that chance?

[KronoRed]

Maybe they think that Casey will repeat his year from last year and they don't want to mess with his spot in the order as they wait for it to happen.

Of course, it probably won't happen.

[OnBaseMachine]

2 games, 6 AB's means you got your wish.

Could have been 8 AB's.

[OnBaseMachine]

Lopez singles
Aurilia walks
Casey k's on a bad 3-2 pitch away(according to Gameday)

[PuffyPig]

Could have been 8 AB's.

I'd rather 0-6, than 0-8.

Anyway, you said 3-4. 3 is one of 3-4.

[DoogMinAmo]

Full counts across the board, 32 pitches for CC in the first. Keep it up guys, get him tired.

[Marc D]

Casey and JR K, Randa Pops out to 1st end top 1

[OnBaseMachine]

Might have been 2-8, with 2 homeruns.

Griffey struckout on a 3-2 pitch. Randa pops out, again on a 3-2 pitch. Dunn will lead off the 2nd inning(surprise!).

[DoogMinAmo]

The way Harang paints the corners of the strikeszone can be a thing of beauty. He seems wild low today though.

[DoogMinAmo]

Quick bottom of the first, 11 pitches. Keep this up, CC and his renowned poor conditioning will tire quickly.

[PuffyPig]

Might have been 2-8, with 2 homeruns.



And the guy that EE replaced might have been 6-6 with 6 HR's.

But the fact is, EE has gone 0-6 in 2 games.I don't think our problem over the last couple games is lack of EE AB's.

[KronoRed]

Dunn leads off the 2nd ;)

[RosieRed]

LaRue! HR!! :party: 2-0 Reds.

[KronoRed]

LaRue hits a 2 run homer :clap:

[OnBaseMachine]

After that homerun, LaRue is hitting .261/.351/.424

Romano draws a walk.

[PuffyPig]

Romano with the 9 pitch walk.

[DoogMinAmo]

Lopez grounds into a Casey. 55 pitches for CC through 2, 2-0 Reds

[Marc D]

Add LaRue to Randa, Aurilia, Casey and JR as players who are doing nothing but help their trade value lately.


Clocks ticking O'Brien.... :angry:

[CTA513]

Gerut had a good at bat, but Harang wouldnt let Gerut beat him.

[OnBaseMachine]

Josh Hancock had another set back. I wonder if O'Brien will start dealing players now that Hancock is hurt again? Afterall, he said Machado and Hancock were two key players for the stretch drive. ;)


Hancock hurting again: Right-hander Josh Hancock has suffered another setback on his road to recovery from a right groin injury.

Hancock, who has gone 0-1 with a 10.34 ERA in four rehab appearances with Louisville, has been shut down from throwing again.

"He's real frustrated," general manager Dan O'Brien said. "It's been tough for him."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050626&content_id=1104571&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

[Marc D]

68 pitches in 3 IP for CC.

2-0 Reds mid 3rd.

[OnBaseMachine]

John Smoltz has a perfect game through 4.

[DoogMinAmo]

Is the cleveland lineup all pull hitters? Harang is living outside right now.

[Falls City Beer]

Is the cleveland lineup all pull hitters? Harang is living outside right now.

He seems to be either not getting the inside ball called a strike or he's missing inside a lot. That could be why.

[KronoRed]

Coco walks, bases loaded :help:

[Falls City Beer]

Aaron's having a tough, tough time putting hitters away lately. I hope he's not pitching through an injury.

[DoogMinAmo]

He is not getting the outside strike now either, the ump is squeezing him like crazy. Bases loaded, 1 out.

[OnBaseMachine]

Palmeiro homers to break up the perfect game.

Indians have the bases loaded. 1 out.

[Aronchis]

Doubtfull. Just is the more truthfull Harang rather than the May hotstreak Harang.

[Falls City Beer]

Doubtfull. Just is the more truthfull Harang rather than the May hotstreak Harang.

Or he could be getting squeezed. I'm not watching the game, so I don't know what kind of calls he is and isn't getting.

[KronoRed]

Umpire has some cool shades.

[KronoRed]

Hafner doubles down the line..tie game.

[CTA513]

Nice job Harang... maybe you better try and hit that outside corner a few more times.

:/

[Falls City Beer]

Ladies and gentleman, Harang out of the stretch. It ain't pretty.

[Aronchis]

Harang is a 3/4 starter. Probably got a bit of deadarm in June as well, you are going to even out over a season.

Still wanna sign him to a LTC ;)

[KronoRed]

Bender walked intentionally after going 3-0..bases loaded again

[CTA513]

Harang must be taking lessons from Hudson.... they better get the bullpen up now before Harang lets the Indians blow this game open.

[DoogMinAmo]

Cmon Casey!

[DoogMinAmo]

Harang must be taking lessons from Hudson.... they better get the bullpen up now before Harang lets the Indians blow this game open.

A little extreme. He has been no where near as wild as Hudson. According to Gamecast, he is pitching on the edge of the zone, borderline calls he was getting. No he isn't and is having to serve up meatballs.

[KronoRed]

Inning over..2-2 game

Dunn leads off the 4th.

[OnBaseMachine]

Harang has thrown 82 pitches through 3. Sabathia 68.

[DoogMinAmo]

Way to work out of the jam Harang. That is the major difference between him and the rest of the staff. We are all to used to the "when it rains it pours," at least Aaron brings an umbrella.

[CTA513]

A little extreme. He has been no where near as wild as Hudson. According to Gamecast, he is pitching on the edge of the zone, borderline calls he was getting. No he isn't and is having to serve up meatballs.

3 walks in 3 innings and is getting behind a lot of hitters.

[PuffyPig]

Harang got squeeezed badly that inning. He had the 2nd batter struck out on 2 pitches, yet ending up walking him. He was never really wild. And Larue dropped a fould tip that was very catchable which proceeded the walk which loaded the bases.

[CTA513]

Harang is at 83 pitches... 1 maybe 2 more innings left for him.

[KronoRed]

FSN lied to me ;) Randa leads off

[DoogMinAmo]

Inning over..2-2 game

Dunn leads off the 4th.

Don't forget Joe. :mooner:

[KronoRed]

Dunn doubles to left.

[KronoRed]

Don't forget Joe. :mooner:
That's what I get for trusting FSN to put up the right 3 people due up ;)

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunn doubles to left.

Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?

[WVRedsFan]

Harang got squeeezed badly that inning. He had the 2nd batter struck out on 2 pitches, yet ending up walking him. He was never really wild. And Larue dropped a fould tip that was very catchable which proceeded the walk which loaded the bases.

Exactly. This whole game he has not been given the strikes like other games. Some umpires do this. I don't think the ump is even consistent in his calls either. And Larue's drop was a killer.

Aaron's OK, he just has a difficult umpire to work with today.

[flyer85]

Don't forget Joe. :mooner:"you remember Joe"

[WVRedsFan]

Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?

Off the wall. Close

[KronoRed]

Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?
Yeah about 3 feet from the top of the wall.

[DoogMinAmo]

Sabathia setting Wily up for the low, inside heat with outside junk.

[flyer85]

Dunn is actually htting better off of lefties at the moment because he has struggled to hit the inside pitch of late and lefties have a harder time getting in there

[OnBaseMachine]

Thanks guys.

Two homeruns off Mulder and a double off Sabathia. Good to see him hitting the lefties again.

[Falls City Beer]

Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

[DoogMinAmo]

CC 88 pitches through 4, Dunn stranded on 2nd after a 1 out double. still 2-2

[DoogMinAmo]

Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

He is pressing. So young, so strong, so much potential.

[Aronchis]

Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

250 3 homer 10 RBI's. I wouldn't call it atrocious, but Kearnsesque, but you know what happens when he starts to get hot.....................................

[flyer85]

Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?it would have been a HR at GABP

[WVRedsFan]

Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

He's very streaky. When he warms up, watch out.

Of course, batting him so low in the order doesn't help much. He's really getting nothing to hit.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Entering today's game...
* The REDS are 5-9 when Aaron Harang starts this year.
* The REDS are 0-4 when Harang has started in June. Harang got the loss all 4 games.
> The REDS have scored a total of 10 runs in those 4 June starts.
>> 5R, 3R, 1R, 1R.
* Harang has given up only 2 HRs during June (23.2 IP).
* The bullpen has allowed only 2ER when Harang started in June (10.1IP, 1.74 ERA).

* Harang in June: 4GS, 23.2IP, 19ER, 29H, 10BB, 29K.
> 7.22 ERA, 1.65 WHIP.
* Harang in May: 5GS, 37.1IP, 8ER, 27H, 8BB, 33K, 1HRA.
> 1.93 ERA, 0.94 WHIP.

[Falls City Beer]

250 3 homer 10 RBI's. I wouldn't call it atrocious, but Kearnsesque, but you know what happens when he starts to get hot.....................................

Yeah, and two of those homers occurred in the same game.

[OnBaseMachine]

Andruw Jones just hit his 24th homerun. En fuego.

[DoogMinAmo]

7 pitch inning helps Harangs out. Now if ever is the chance to do damage to CC.

[WVRedsFan]

Harang gets through the 4th unscathed. 2-2 tie.

Romano, Lopez, and Aurilia up in the 5th.

I hate this batting order. Just sayin' :)

[KronoRed]

Andruw Jones just hit his 24th homerun. En fuego.
He's on the juice obviously :evil:

[Falls City Beer]

Andruw Jones just hit his 24th homerun. En fuego.

I don't know who it was, but a bunch of people on here used to say Andruw Jones was the most overrated centerfielder in the game, or somehting like that. I thought they were crazy then, and I do now. The guy's game is unbelieveable in my opinion. WMP dreams of having Jones's talent.

[KronoRed]

Chris and George talking about how Romano is a hard worker

[DoogMinAmo]

CC now getting those borderline pitches, homefield advantage I guess.

Romano putting together some nice ABs, I really don't mind this guy. (Sorry, it slipped.)

[OnBaseMachine]

He's on the juice obviously :evil:

Orange or apple? :)

[Falls City Beer]

Chris and George talking about how Romano is a hard worker

You KNOW hard work and "attitude" is all that counts, right? ;)

[KronoRed]

Orange or apple? :)
Apple is the good stuff :cool:

[DoogMinAmo]

I think Acevedo could help out this pitching staff. Where is the kid now?

[CTA513]

CC now getting those borderline pitches, homefield advantage I guess.


Hes getting some Ankle strikes.

[KronoRed]

I think Acevedo could help out this pitching staff. Where is the kid now?
The DL.

[WVRedsFan]

CC now getting those borderline pitches, homefield advantage I guess.

Romano putting together some nice ABs, I really don't mind this guy. (Sorry, it slipped.)

And then he strikes out on a horrible or nasty pitch, depending on your opinion.

I don't like the fact that he takes AB's from more talented people. Like an old man once told me, a hard worker with no talent still gives you the same 0-4 that the guy you cirticize for being lazy does.

[Falls City Beer]

I sure hope the BP's up. Gonna need it.

[flyer85]

Harang is cooked

[OnBaseMachine]

Grady Sizemore can flat hit. The Indians ripped off the Expos--Sizemore and Lee for a half year of Colon is robbery. But then again, the Indians ripping off another team in a trade is not out of the ordinary. Hafner for Einar Diaz was a pretty good trade eh?

[Falls City Beer]

Harang is cooked

And he's getting cooked earlier and earlier in games it seems. That seems to be the trend of late, anyway.

[RosieRed]

OK Marty, we get it. It should have been a DP. This is the worst team ever. Next subject please.

[WVRedsFan]

It looked to me like it was more Lopez' fault than Harang's. Lopez was awfully late breaking for the bag.

Harang gets a gold star from me for how he pitched to the last two batters. He's a keeper. We just need runs.

[flyer85]

OK Marty, we get it. It should have been a DP. This is the worst team ever. Next subject please.I only listen if I have to, Marty has morphed into the Grinch

[KronoRed]

OK Marty, we get it. It should have been a DP. This is the worst team ever. Next subject please.
I blame whomever Martys fav player is ;)

[flyer85]

It looked to me like it was more Lopez' fault than Harang's. It was Harang, he double clutched it. probably didn't get a good grip

[MWM]

I don't know who it was, but a bunch of people on here used to say Andruw Jones was the most overrated centerfielder in the game, or somehting like that. I thought they were crazy then, and I do now. The guy's game is unbelieveable in my opinion. WMP dreams of having Jones's talent.

I've always thought he was over-rated and still do. He's riding an unbelievable hot streak right now and is still only up to .940.

He's always been a good player, but I don't think he's ever lived up to the hype. Maybe this is the year he puts it all together. He's been a very good defensive center fielder his whole career, but it's been written that he's actually lost a step the last couple of years. I don't watch him enough on defense to know if that's true or not. BUt he's never turned into the offensive juggernaut many predicted he would become. Yet, because of the hype he's always been talked up above and beyond his actualy performance, IMO.

Over-rated players most of the time are still good players. I think Jones falls into that category. I believe Derek Jeter leads that category and he's still a very good player.

[Falls City Beer]

It was Harang, he double clutched it.

Ah yes errors of confidence: the hallmark of bad teams.

[WVRedsFan]

It was Harang, he double clutched it.

Sure, but the reason he double clutched it was Lopez had not yet broken for the bag. Harang, and rightly so, didn't want to throw the ball into center field.

[flyer85]

Sure, but the reason he double clutched it was Lopez had not yet broken for the bag. Harang, and rightly so, didn't want to throw the ball into center field.you lead the fielder, it's as simple as that. Lopez was standing on the bag waiting for the ball when Harang threw it.

[Falls City Beer]

I've always thought he was over-rated and still do. He's riding an unbelievable hot streak right now and is still only up to .940.

He's always been a good player, but I don't think he's ever lived up to the hype. Maybe this is the year he puts it all together. He's been a very good defensive center fielder his whole career, but it's been written that he's actually lost a step the last couple of years. I don't watch him enough on defense to know if that's true or not. BUt he's never turned into the offensive juggernaut many predicted he would become. Yet, because of the hype he's always been talked up above and beyond his actualy performance, IMO.

Over-rated players most of the time are still good players. I think Jones falls into that category. I believe Derek Jeter leads that category and he's still a very good player.

See, I always heard that Jones was strictly an elite gloveman; I never heard much hype about his offense. But the kids got it all, particularly when you consider that he's not a corner outfielder.

[MWM]

Sure, but the reason he double clutched it was Lopez had not yet broken for the bag. Harang, and rightly so, didn't want to throw the ball into center field.

Pitchers are taught to throw the ball to the bag, or a little on the inside of the bag. The SS or 2B will get there. I didn't see the play so I don't know just how far FeLo was, but in most cases, they'll get there by the time the ball gets there.

[PuffyPig]

you lead the fielder, it's as simple as that. Lopez was standing on the bag waiting for the ball when Harang threw it.

That's the way I saw it. If Harang had thrown right away, Lopez would have been there, and with the momentum to make a strong throw. As it was, Lopez caught the ball flat footed, and had to throw with his arm only.

[Falls City Beer]

Harang's thrown 110 pitches. Why would you send him out there again?

Never mind: it's the bottom of the order, duh.

[flyer85]

Harang's thrown 110 pitches. Why would you send him out there again?NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[MWM]

See, I always heard that Jones was strictly an elite gloveman; I never heard much hype about his offense. But the kids got it all, particularly when you consider that he's not a corner outfielder.

See, I don't think he's got it all. He's never had patience at the plate (.343 career OBP) and isn't as fast as he's made out to be. He's a guy that looks like he's put on a pound or two as well.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's paid like one of the best overall players in the game (makes $13MM this year). Yes, he covers a lot of ground, but I'd still take Mike Cameron and Tori Hunter's ground covering ability over Andruw's.

I've just never been his biggest fan.

[Falls City Beer]

See, I don't think he's got it all. He's never had patience at the plate (.343 career OBP) and isn't as fast as he's made out to be. He's a guy that looks like he's put on a pound or two as well.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's paid like one of the best overall players in the game (makes $13MM this year). Yes, he covers a lot of ground, but I'd still take Mike Cameron and Tori Hunter's ground covering ability over Andruw's.

I've just never been his biggest fan.

Yeah, his contract's pretty silly, no argument there. But I think he's pretty great all around player.

[WVRedsFan]

you lead the fielder, it's as simple as that. Lopez was standing on the bag waiting for the ball when Harang threw it.

Well, when slowing it down on Tivo and watching, when Harang turned around with the ball in his hand, Lopez hadn't yet moved toward the bag. Yes, he hurried there, but why he didn't react sooner--the ball was to the right side, so he wasn't going to have to field it--I don't know.

[PuffyPig]

Harang's thrown 110 pitches. Why would you send him out there again?

Because he has been getting stretched out to 120 pitches. Because our bullpen sucks. Because he's our best pitcher. Because no matter who goes out there, they usually get hit. Because Narron wants to wait so he can pinch hit for him (he's been waiting since Friday).

[WVRedsFan]

Because he has been getting stretched out to 120 pitches. Because our bullpen sucks. Because he's our best pitcher. Because no matter who goes out there, they usually get hit. Because Narron wants to wait so he can pinch hit for him (he's been waiting since Friday).

Doesn't he know he's in the American League now :)

[Falls City Beer]

Because he has been getting stretched out to 120 pitches. Because our bullpen sucks. Because he's our best pitcher. Because no matter who goes out there, they usually get hit. Because Narron wants to wait so he can pinch hit for him (he's been waiting since Friday).

Or, as my amended post states (the best reason of all): it's the bottom of Cleveland's order.

[KronoRed]

LaRue doubles.

He is red hot right now

[Falls City Beer]

Larue is underrated. ;)

[SteelSD]

Larue doubles.

Does he suck still?

[OnBaseMachine]

I just noticed that Dunn has hit the ball to the left side in all three atbats today: groundout to SS, double off wall in left, groundout to third. You don't see that too often.

[KronoRed]

I tried to steal my wifes leftover sandwich, she woke up from a nap and caught me

I blame Bob Boone

Romano singles.

[SteelSD]

Romano singles. 1st and 3rd for the Reds. Pitching change.

[Falls City Beer]

Time for FeLo to break out the crime stick.

[Falls City Beer]

I tried to steal my wifes leftover sandwich, she woke up from a nap and caught me

I blame Bob Boone

Romano singles, LaRue stays at 2nd

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :lol:

That's awesome.

[Falls City Beer]

What's the holdup with Arthur Chodes?

[KronoRed]

Felo pops out..big bad RA up

[KronoRed]

Shackleford in.

[LvJ]

He's got the Dunn hair. :runaway:

[TeamBoone]

Ok, I hate this move. IMHO, you do NOT do this in a 1-run game.

That said, I hope he makes me eat my words.

[TeamBoone]

And why the Harry Caray thing in Cleveland?

[Falls City Beer]

Shackleberry

[FlyingPig]

That's what I love about this lineup..if Lopez doesn't get it done in a 3-2 game with 2 on, we have Rich Aurilia following him..


.....wait...

Did Aurilia just strike out looking?


:bang:

[LvJ]

:owned: 3 PITCH K.

[Falls City Beer]

Shackelberry Krunch

http://www.goodrock.com/productpics/shirts/thumbs/b1579.gif

[TeamBoone]

Ok, I was enjoying dishing up the crow... and now, I don't think he should have taken him out because of the foul-up in the outfield.

There's just no pleasing me. :D

[Falls City Beer]

...followed by Tackleberry.

[KronoRed]

Shack out Weathers in

[OnBaseMachine]

Tackleberry replaces Shackelberry.

[Falls City Beer]

Shack out Weathers in

Shack-fu

[OnBaseMachine]

John Smoltz just threw his second consecutive complete game. Last 5 starts: 8+ innings in each start, 3 complete games.

[KronoRed]

Casey singles, JR walks

[KronoRed]

Randa hits into a Casey..Casey to 3rd

[Falls City Beer]

Well, that was the game right there. Alright, well, I forgot Dunn's hitting BEHIND Randa. Dunn rules too.

[KronoRed]

Dunn singles Tie Game WOO :clap:

[SteelSD]

Dunn uses confusion as a weapon by shattering bat. Bat and ball fly at Belliard, who has to play one.

Played the wrong one and the game's tied up.

[MWM]

It's a good thing we have all these contact hitters in key spots in the order.

Adam Dunn with a clutch single with RISP.

[CTA513]

He's got the Dunn hair. :runaway:

lol I was thinking the same thing when he took his hat off.

:laugh:

[PuffyPig]

Well, that was the game right there.

Another good call!

And in other news, Smoltz pitches his second consecutive complete game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[CTA513]

Shackelford with a cool 0.00 ERA

He should retire now and be perfect.

[flyer85]

if Belliard was playing normal depth that would have been an easy play

[Falls City Beer]

Another good call!

And in other news, Smoltz pitches his second consecutive complete game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yep, keep sending a 38 year old out there start after start to throw complete games; pretty soon they'll have no one in the rotation when his arm flies off.

[flyer85]

It's a good thing we have all these contact hitters in key spots in the order.

Adam Dunn with a clutch single with RISP.error on Belliard

[Hoosier Red]

changed from hit to an error for Dunn, NO RBI FOR YOU

[CTA513]

Pena had a chance to hit a bunch of fastballs today and did nothing.

[KronoRed]

Error huh? I disagree.

Just the man keeping Dunn's avg with RISP down.

[Falls City Beer]

Pena had a chance to hit a bunch of fastballs today and did nothing.

He's really scuffling--when all you can hit is fastballs and you're not connecting, it's pine time (and extra BP).

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunn haters rejoice everywhere as that was changed from a hit to an error, thus no rbi for Dunn. ;)

[red-in-la]

Pena had a chance to hit a bunch of fastballs today and did nothing.

I saw on Pena AB and the line drive he hit was right on the screws....it was just right at the LF.....can't blame a hitter for that.

[Falls City Beer]

Another good call!

And in other news, Smoltz pitches his second consecutive complete game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Looks like I'm going to be right. :p:

Double play ball is going to be the probable cause of the loss.

[SirFelixCat]

I swear I would have yanked Dunn out of the game right then and there and ripped into his ass. No excuse for not hustling on that play. Disgusting!

[TeamBoone]

I swear I would have yanked Dunn out of the game right then and there and ripped into his ass. No excuse for not hustling on that play. Disgusting!

I don't agree. When you see another player charging the ball, I'd avoid the collision.

[Big Klu]

You gotta be kidding. The only reason Lopez would have been continuing to run after that is if Dunn did not call for it. It was clearly Dunn's play to make, and he didn't do it.

[KronoRed]

Indians retake the lead 4-3

[Falls City Beer]

Thanks Randa. Remember to swing on the first pitch the next time in our 2nd last AB.

[SirFelixCat]

I don't agree. When you see another player charging the ball, I'd avoid the collision.

No freaking way. It's the outfielders call. I swear I would have done the same thing that Bobby Cox did 5 years ago with Andruw Jones. Pulled him in the middle of an inning for not hustling.


This last run is 100% on Dunn's shoulders and I am disgusted with his lack of hustle. Plain and simple. :thumbdown :angry:

[CTA513]

Thanks Randa. Remember to swing on the first pitch the next time in our last AB.

yup its sure is Randas fault that Dunn or Lopez didnt catch that fly ball.

[KronoRed]

Well if not for Dunn we don't have our 3rd run so it's even ;)

[OnBaseMachine]

Well if not for Dunn we don't have our 3rd run so it's even ;)

Exactly. I was about to say the same thing.

[MWM]

There's a difference between lack of hustle and lack of judgement. Adam has shown poor judgement from time to time in the outfield, but lack of hustle implies he wasn't even trying. I didn't see it, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is it was lack of judgement.

[Big Klu]

Well if not for Dunn we don't have our 3rd run so it's even ;)

No, actually if it wasn't for Belliard the Reds don't get the third run.

[SteelSD]

There's a difference between lack of hustle and lack of judgement. Adam has shown poor judgement from time to time in the outfield, but lack of hustle implies he wasn't even trying. I didn't see it, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is it was lack of judgement.

Bingo. Dunn's mistake was that he misjudged the play and thought Lopez had it.

[KronoRed]

Well I still disagree on the error call.

[KronoRed]

Some angry people in the dugout :help:

[Big Klu]

There's a difference between lack of hustle and lack of judgement. Adam has shown poor judgement from time to time in the outfield, but lack of hustle implies he wasn't even trying. I didn't see it, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is it was lack of judgement.

I tend to agree with you, but this seems to be anything but an isolated case. Dunn continues to show questionable judgment in LF, and seems to be content with being a below-average defensive outfielder when he possesses the skills to be an above-average first baseman--yet he has actively shown a resistance to moving to a position at which he would be superior.

[SirFelixCat]

So because Belliard mishandles a one hopper, that makes everything Dunn does, right or wrong, ok? wow. Blinders people. Independant of e/o.

And MWM, while he may have misjudged and "assumed" that Lopez would get to it, had he hustled, just in case, this would be a moot point.

You people sure are forgiving, because it's Adam Dunn, or so it seems.

[OnBaseMachine]

I can't wait to see how many threads are started in the next few hours stating, "Dunn sux! he didn't hustle and it cost us the game!'

[CTA513]

Game Over.

[SteelSD]

Blake makes a great play on a Larue smash and throws him out.

Interestingly enough, it also demonstrates that guarding the line late in the game is an overrated concept (Blake wasnt'). Had Blake been guarding the line, that ball would have shot right past him.

[MWM]

yet he has actively shown a resistance to moving

How do you know this?

[Matt700wlw]

The Reds abysmal outfield play could very well have cost the game today.

Period. I don't care who is out there.

[KronoRed]

Game Over.
Lopez disagrees.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lopez gets a 2 out hit.

[SteelSD]

So because Belliard mishandles a one hopper, that makes everything Dunn does, right or wrong, ok? wow. Blinders people. Independant of e/o.

And MWM, while he may have misjudged and "assumed" that Lopez would get to it, had he hustled, just in case, this would be a moot point.

You people sure are forgiving, because it's Adam Dunn, or so it seems.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Adam Dunn made a bad mistake last Inning. No one's trying to "cover" for Dunn there. Because he thought Lopez had the play made, he couldn't "hustle" because he thought that his "hustle" would have run him right into the Shortstop. Dunn's brain said "give way".

[Big Klu]

How do you know this?

Come on. It has been discussed here and elsewhere the Dunn has stated that he does not like to nor want to play first base. It is pretty much common knowledge.

[Reds Fanatic]

Aurilia flies out. Reds lose 4-3.

[KronoRed]

..but Rich agrees.

Game Over.

[SirFelixCat]

The Reds abysmal outfield play could very well have cost the game today.

Period. I don't care who is out there.

How dare you speak negatively of the sacred cow that is Adam Dunn.


People, he's a great offensive player. He cost the Reds the game today. Plain and simple.

[Puffy]

Once again - Casey, Griffey, Dunn, Randa and Pena get 4 at bats in the game. Rich Aurilia gets 5.

I don't care how hot he has been this month, Aurilia should never get more at bats then any of the above named players. He needs to be hitting 7th, plain and simple.

[SirFelixCat]

Dude, what are you talking about?

Adam Dunn made a bad mistake last Inning. No one's trying to "cover" for Dunn there. Because he thought Lopez had the play made, he couldn't "hustle" because he thought that his "hustle" would have run him right into the Shortstop. Dunn's brain said "give way".

Dude, the OF has the right of way, when coming in for a ball as opposed to an IF'er going out. You know this. I know this. They know this.

[Big Klu]

Once again - Casey, Griffey, Dunn, Randa and Pena get 4 at bats in the game. Rich Aurilia gets 5.

I don't care how hot he has been this month, Aurilia should never get more at bats then any of the above named players. He needs to be hitting 7th, plain and simple.

I'm with ya.

[PuffyPig]

Once again - Casey, Griffey, Dunn, Randa and Pena get 4 at bats in the game. Rich Aurilia gets 5.

I don't care how hot he has been this month, Aurilia should never get more at bats then any of the above named players. He needs to be hitting 7th, plain and simple.

That post should close this thread.

End the thread the same way we start it.

Complaining about the construction of the lineup.

[TeamBoone]

I tend to agree with you, but this seems to be anything but an isolated case. Dunn continues to show questionable judgment in LF, and seems to be content with being a below-average defensive outfielder when he possesses the skills to be an above-average first baseman--yet he has actively shown a resistance to moving to a position at which he would be superior.

You make it sound like Adam Dunn was offered the position and turned it down.

Has he ever declined to play there when asked to fill in? We all know that he prefers the outfield to first base, but that's just a personal preference; we all have them.

[OnBaseMachine]

If Dunn had ran over Lopez and injured him, Dunn would be getting bashed right about now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't remember this much fussing over WMP misplaying two balls in the last couple weeks and then jogging after the ball.

[lollipopcurve]

Dunn's OF instincts are not particularly good. It's obvious. If he works at it, in time he can be better. But I'd move him to first.

The thing that sticks in my craw about this game is Casey swinging at ball 4 twice in the first inning with runners on first and second. Should have been bases loaded no outs and Sabathia on the ropes in a big way.

[MWM]

Come on. It has been discussed here and elsewhere the Dunn has stated that he does not like to nor want to play first base. It is pretty much common knowledge.

I've heard rumor and innuendo, but I don't think it's common knowledge. I've not read anything substantive about his unwillingness to move to 1B. If it's such common knowledge, then you should have no problem finding a source. Because something has been "discussed here" doesn't give it any more credence.

Besides, why are we even discussing this when Sean Casey has been the everyday first baseman for 7 years now? I don't recall Dunn ever resisting any move to 1B, but how would it look if he were campaigning for his friend's job? Why are we criticizing a guy for "actively" rejecting a job that has never even been open. Makes no sense to me.

[SteelSD]

Dude, the OF has the right of way, when coming in for a ball as opposed to an IF'er going out. You know this. I know this. They know this.

Has the "right of way"?

Again, whether or not Felipe SHOULD have given way to Dunn isn't the issue. Dunn thought Felipe had the play made. Because of that, his brain told him to pull up or he'd smash his 6'6" body right into Felipe. He was wrong, but it wasn't an effort issue.

No one yet has said anything about Dunn NOT making a mistake, so your "sacred cow" comment is most definitely misplaced.

But it sure as heck wasn't an effort issue.

[KronoRed]

Someone else posted that Dunn is not in favor of a move to 1st because he doesn't want to see Casey traded.

Oh well..game over.

[SirFelixCat]

If Dunn had ran over Lopez and injured him, Dunn would be getting bashed right about now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't remember this much fussing over WMP mis-playing two balls in the last couple weeks and then jogging after the ball.

I would have had I not been at work and seen them.

[Puffy]

That post should close this thread.

End the thread the same way we start it.

Complaining about the construction of the lineup.

Whatever. I have been saying the same thing all week - even when the Reds won three straight with Aurilia second in the lineup.

Just because you agree with everything the Reds do isn't my problem.

[TeamBoone]

The Reds abysmal outfield play could very well have cost the game today.

Period. I don't care who is out there.

What about the one earlier that Aurilia botched?

There are always a lot of plays that could have been handled differently in ANY game that could/would influence the outcome. But they don't loom as large as those that occur late.

You may be right, perhaps he wasn't hustling. I didn't see it that way. I'm going to watch the highlights on Reds Wrap and take a second look.

[TeamBoone]

OK, I just watched it. There's no way he wasn't hustling. He was looking at the ball all the way, and it appeared to me that he didn't see Lopez until the last minute (who was also looking at the ball), so he slowed to let him take it (and he was right on top of him when he did). If he hadn't slowed, he'd have bowled him over.

[westofyou]

I swear I would have yanked Dunn out of the game right then and there and ripped into his ass. No excuse for not hustling on that play. Disgusting!

No one to replace him with

Pena - RF
Romano - CF
Cruz - PH
Griffey - DH

I'm not going to debate the play, but I will debate that that would have left the Reds without a PH for Romano in the 9th inning.

If the game is important enough to make an example out of a player than it's important enough not to give it away by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It wouldn't be fair to the team IMO to mess with your assets to make a point that might be being made right now if indeed it's what they believed to happen.

But let's also note that Narron declared the other day that he thought the Reds needed more outfield instruction and that he was going to take care of that.

[TeamBoone]

Someone else posted that Dunn is not in favor of a move to 1st because he doesn't want to see Casey traded.

Oh well..game over.

That was nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek conspiracy theory, Krono.

[KronoRed]

That was nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek conspiracy theory, Krono.
I like those ;)

[CTA513]

The ball should have been caught no matter how you dice it.
Weathers got the short end of the stick today.

[TeamBoone]

I like those ;)

Me too; it was fun at the time.

[SirFelixCat]

No one to replace him with

Pena - RF
Romano - CF
Cruz - PH
Griffey - DH

I'm not going to debate the play, but I will debate that that would have left the Reds without a PH for Romano in the 9th inning.

If the game is important enough to make an example out of a player than it's important enough not to give it away by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It wouldn't be fair to the team IMO to mess with your assets to make a point that might be being made right now if indeed it's what they believed to happen.

But let's also note that Narron declared the other day that he thought the Reds needed more outfield instruction and that he was going to take care of that.

I'll grant you that. I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

But, IMO, it still does not excuse him. Agree to disagree people.

[TeamBoone]

The ball should have been caught no matter how you dice it.
Weathers got the short end of the stick today.

I sooooooooooo wish we could see the outcome of should/coulda/woulda.

If you get a chance to see the replay, please take a good look. If Dunn had not slowed, both he and Felipe would be hurting right now... or perhaps just one or the other. It was a collision on the brink.

Would that make everyone happy?

[Big Klu]

No one to replace him with

Pena - RF
Romano - CF
Cruz - PH
Griffey - DH

I'm not going to debate the play, but I will debate that that would have left the Reds without a PH for Romano in the 9th inning.

If the game is important enough to make an example out of a player than it's important enough not to give it away by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It wouldn't be fair to the team IMO to mess with your assets to make a point that might be being made right now if indeed it's what they believed to happen.

But let's also note that Narron declared the other day that he thought the Reds needed more outfield instruction and that he was going to take care of that.

woy,

You are the voice of reason. I would not advocate taking him out in the middle of the inning either. That is a very serious move to make, which tends to antagonize a lot of people, and should only even be considered when there is an obvious lack of effort, which I do not believe is the case. But I do think it was a grievous lack of judgment on his part.

BTW, since Dunn was scheduled to be the eighth batter in the ninth inning, they could have put Griffey in CF, with Romano moving to LF, eliminated the DH, and inserted Weathers in Dunn's #6 slot. Then Cruz would still be available to pinch-hit for Romano in the ninth. (Not saying that I would have done this, but it was a possible option.)

[Falls City Beer]

yup its sure is Randas fault that Dunn or Lopez didnt catch that fly ball.

Dude, if you can't see that the greater sin was swinging on the first pitch with two men on and nobody out with the guy in front of you just having walked on 5 pitches, then heaven help you. Randa had choice to take a pitch. Dunn was reacting. Yet no one was outraged at Randa's egregious mistake (largely because Dunn saved his bacon).

[MWM]

No one's disagreeing that it was a mistake. The disagreement is whether it was effort or judgement. Dunn's not a very cerebral player at this stage in his career. He makes more mistakes than he should, but I don't think it's because he's not trying.

[SteelSD]

I'll grant you that. I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

But, IMO, it still does not excuse him. Agree to disagree people.

That's the thing.

Name one person who's on this thread who's been excusing Dunn for making a mistake on that play.

You won't be able to.

[westofyou]

BTW, since Dunn was scheduled to be the eighth batter in the ninth inning, they could have put Griffey in CF, with Romano moving to LF, eliminated the DH, and inserted Weathers in Dunn's #6 slot. Then Cruz would still be available to pinch-hit for Romano in the ninth. (Not saying that I would have done this, but it was a possible option.)

Yes I knew that, but a guy would have to be a Alex Johnson type of player to get a manager to do that.

[CTA513]

I sooooooooooo wish we could see the outcome of should/coulda/woulda.

If you get a chance to see the replay, please take a good look. If Dunn had not slowed, both he and Felipe would be hurting right now... or perhaps just one or the other. It was a collision on the brink.

Would that make everyone happy?

Yes I would have loved to see that. :rolleyes:

[Falls City Beer]

Ah well, silver lining: each loss brings us a little closer to DanO's exit.

[CTA513]

Dude, if you can't see that the greater sin was swinging on the first pitch with two men on and nobody out with the guy in front of you just having walked on 5 pitches, then heaven help you. Randa had choice to take a pitch. Dunn was reacting. Yet no one was outraged at Randa's egregious mistake (largely because Dunn saved his bacon).

I agree its totally Randas fault, he should be beaten for it.

[Falls City Beer]

I agree its totally Randas fault, he should be beaten for it.

I've heard of worse punishments. ;) But really it is his fault.

[KronoRed]

Beaten?

Get a rope :cool:

[Big Klu]

woy,

Option #2: Insert Cruz in LF. PH Valentin for Romano in the ninth. If the Reds tie or take the lead, Valentin stays in to C, Peña moves to CF, and LaRue moves to the OF (either in RF, or to LF with Cruz moving to RF). I would not advocate this move either, but it is yet another option. :D

[37red]

Why in the world would you play Dunn over Casey? Casey is a fine first baseman, better batter and hustles more. It must be hot in here, everyone needs to turn up the AC and have a cold one.

[traderumor]

That was Dunn's ball, a routine fly actually, way too deep into left for a shortstop to take. Just a botched play at the worst possible time. So I guess Narron will have to get that whip out that he talked about in his inaugural press conference, eh?

[Falls City Beer]

woy,

Option #2: Insert Cruz in LF. PH Valentin for Romano in the ninth. If the Reds tie or take the lead, Valentin stays in to C, Peña moves to CF, and LaRue moves to the OF (either in RF, or to LF with Cruz moving to RF). I would not advocate this move either, but it is yet another option. :D

Or Option #3: bring up Kearns and keep his bat in the outfield rotation. And just forget all about what a stupid idea it was to send him down in the first place.

Then trade whichever of the two (Kearns or Pena) gets hot first. Problem solved.

[CTA513]

That was Dunn's ball, a routine fly actually, way too deep into left for a shortstop to take. Just a botched play at the worst possible time. So I guess Narron will have to get that whip out that he talked about in his inaugural press conference, eh?

It should have been Dunns ball all the way, but you have players like Lopez, Freel and Aurilia that feel like they have to run over to ther players positions to catch balls.

I think Romano could have had a chance at getting that bloop fly ball that was hit in between Romano, Aurilia and Pena earlier in the game.

They all need to give each other room to play there positions.

[pedro]

Why in the world would you play Dunn over Casey? Casey is a fine first baseman, better batter and hustles more. It must be hot in here, everyone needs to turn up the AC and have a cold one.

Because Casey isn't that good?

Casey hustles more. hmmmm.

Casey may be a better hitter in terms of BA, but the rest of his offensive game is putrid. It's amazing to me that the Reds have scored as many runs as they have with him in the 3 hole, where he is an absolute liability.

[Big Klu]

Or Option #3: bring up Kearns and keep his bat in the outfield rotation. And just forget all about what a stupid idea it was to send him down in the first place.


Not an option. You can't make a roster move in the middle of the game. (And yes, I know you were being sarcastic.)

However, I disagree that it was a stupid idea to send him to AAA in the first place. He played on an every-day basis while Peña was on the DL, and frankly he played his way to AAA. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was the pinch-hit appearance he had in the ninth inning (I think it was against Tampa Bay) where he walked up to the plate, watched three pitches go by, and walked back to the dugout as if nothing had happened.

[PuffyPig]

Whatever. I have been saying the same thing all week - even when the Reds won three straight with Aurilia second in the lineup.

Just because you agree with everything the Reds do isn't my problem.



You misinterpreted what I was saying.

I wasn't disagreeing with you; I just thought your post would have brought closure to a painful loss. I thought it was funny. And yes I know, you have been saying it all week, and longer probably.

For the record, I've been one of the few posters here who has supported Lopez right from the get-go. I"m one of the few that said that his range was desparately needed if we were to improve this year. I thought that our infield defense was as bad last year as our pitching, and thatLopez would help solve that problem (not the pitching, but the MI defense). I never liked the idea of Aurilla starting over Lopez, nor did I ever like the idea of him hitting second(other than when Freel was injured and he was red hot). I've always liked the idea of Dunn hitting before Casey, but always knew that the Reds weren't likely to do it. It's just that I don't see the need to complain about it at the start of every game like it's a new thing. I"ve always been an advocate that you want your best hitters to get the most AB's, it's only common sense. With Freel injured, I'd put Dunn at bat 2nd. WIth Freel in the lineup, I'd put him 3rd.

For the record, there can be no real disagreement that Dunn should have caught that ball. He wanted nothing to do with it, and Lopez wouldn't have been out so far if Dunn had played it anywhere close to what a major league LF is expected to do. Dunn never looks particularly good even on easy outs, which that should have been.

While it's esy to criticize Randa for swinging at the first pitch, you see players all the time doing it when they think that pitchers will try and "groove" one when they are having control problems. I didn't get a good look at the pitches location, but Randa did get pretty good wood on it.

[traderumor]

It should have been Dunns ball all the way, but you have players like Lopez, Freel and Aurilia that feel like they have to run over to ther players positions to catch balls.

I think Romano could have had a chance at getting that bloop fly ball that was hit in between Romano, Aurilia and Pena earlier in the game.

They all need to give each other room to play there positions.That was in no way's Felipe's fault. He should go out, though, until Dunn calls him off. He may have not realized it was too deep until he got back there, but Lopez didn't do anything wrong on that play.

[TeamBoone]

For the record, there can be no real disagreement that Dunn should have caught that ball. He wanted nothing to do with it, and Lopez wouldn't have been out so far if Dunn had played it anywhere close to what a major league LF is expected to do. Dunn never looks particularly good even on easy outs, which that should have been.

Actually, yes, there can. You see it your way, and I see it mine.

I've watched the replay several times. He was NOT dogging it on that play. Had he not slowed, he would have wiped out Felipe.

Should the ball have been caught? Absolutely! But not at the expense of injury to either player.