Jayson Starks Top 10 to watch as the trade deadline approaches [Archive] - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

LincolnparkRed

07-18-2005, 11:39 AM

Per Espn

Burnett
Lowell
Thome
Dunn

It isn't every July you get a chance to trade for a 25-year-old with a better career home run ratio than A-Rod, Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle. But Dunn fits that description, and clubs that have talked with the Reds say Dunn is definitely on the market. There are indications the Astros have made him their No. 1 target -- with both of their top pitching prospects (Fernando Nieve and Taylor Buchholz) potentially being involved. The Reds, however, don't do anything fast (except release slumping closers). And they still aren't sure they'll even trade Dunn. Clubs speaking with the Reds say they're debating whether they'd rather deal Wily Mo Pena. And an official of one team that has been in touch with them says they'll "consider" deals for Junior Griffey (even though Griffey has said he'd veto any deal) -- but not Austin Kearns. Nevertheless, there's no bat on the market more attractive than Dunn. So the big question, between now and deadline day, is whether the Astros, Dodgers, Mets, Indians, Red Sox or anyone else can afford Dunn's humongous price tag.

Thome
Wagner
Chacon
Arroyo
Baez
Lilly
Randa

MARKET REPORT
Randa is the other third baseman on the menu for teams that don't want Lowell's price tag. But despite all that talk of a bidding frenzy building around the eminently available Randa, clubs that have spoken with the Reds say he's been insanely overpriced. The White Sox, Indians and Twins have had some degree of interest. But all those teams are believed to view Randa as no more than a secondary priority. "We're just lukewarm about him," said an official of one team that at least checked in on Randa. "He's had a nice year. But he's never played on a winning team. And he's not the kind of player you overpay for."

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 11:45 AM

Other GMs annoyed with O'Brien's incompetence? I'm absolutely SHOCKED!

Jpup

07-18-2005, 11:49 AM

This is what I want to hear. Someone will bite on Randa next week. As for Dunn, if they trade him, they are simply nuts.

4th in NL in HR
3rd in NL in BB
5th in NL in OPS
4th in NL in Runs
7th in NL in Slugging

I used to be one of the guys that said I would trade Dunn for a bunch of help in other areas, but trading him would be like St. Louis trading Albert Pujols. He should have a high price tag. I don't believe that anyone is not tradeable, but Dunn is about as close as it gets. Nieve and Buchholz wouldn't even get me started.

As for Pena, I haven't heard much about him being traded. I don't even know what the market for him would be. I think he is a good hitter and will only get better, but I would in no way put him in Adam Dunn territory. Griffey is tradable and if the Yankees don't get what they want before the end of next week, I think they will take a shot at him.

NJReds

07-18-2005, 11:52 AM

Other GMs annoyed with O'Brien's incompetence? I'm absolutely SHOCKED!

Incompetence because he won't give his players away? I think other GM's are annoyed because they thought they'd be able to fleece him in a deal right away.

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 11:59 AM

Jpup

07-18-2005, 12:02 PM

Here's what Buster Olney had to say about Adam Dunn in his morning chat session:

Steezo (Ashtabula ,Oh)
Your take on Sabathia for Dunn, shouldn't Cleveland get more?

BUSTER OLNEY
Steezo: No way should Cleveland do a deal like this. And the other factor is that Sabathia, who just signed a long-term deal, could demand a trade and force his way out of Cincinnnati.

Buster Olney is an idiot. :bang:

Jpup

07-18-2005, 12:02 PM

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 12:07 PM

or the Indians will give in and give up Sowers. :beerme:

If that's the case Jpup, I'd gladly shut my yapper for the rest of the season. O'Brien would find a place in my heart if he could pull that off :thumbup:

Jpup

07-18-2005, 12:17 PM

Steve Phillips (moments ago on Dunn)

Steve, What are your thought on the Reds getting rid of Dunn? I have heard Indians and the Cubs.

Steve Phillips: (12:15 PM ET ) Adam Dunn is the most interesting consideration for the Reds. He will make close to $9 million through arbitration and the Reds can't afford him and Griffey with such a low overall payroll. Dunn would be interesting at the deadline and I suspect the Reds could bring back one ML ready starting pitcher, on nearly ready pitcher and possibly a position prospect. Teams in the race would have interest but also clubs who are not in the race because they can control his contract after this year and manipulate their roster to afford his salary. He would be a great fit for the Blue Jays who need power and like OBP. The Jays have about $160M to spend in '06-'07.

I also sent him a question I will let you know if he answers it.

thorn

07-18-2005, 12:22 PM

Obrien seems to be playing the trading game correctly. There is NO NEED to jump at the first offer, unless the offer is a pitcher ready to jump into the rotation this year or next, no more projects that will take 2-3-4 years to show up in the bigs. It's kind of like falling in love with the first girl you lay, you don't do that either. Patience is the key here, the closer we get to the trade deadline, the more desperate teams will be.

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 12:23 PM

Lord I hope he's wrong. The only comfort I can find with this is that Steve Phillips is no longer a GM for a reason :ughmamoru

Tony Cloninger

07-18-2005, 12:24 PM

Agree.....NJ.

I do not like DO either......tried to give him time to do things...but he looks like a bad GM.

However.....he gets blasted for not doing anything.....then blasted for not trying to get enough.

Hold out for as much as you can. That is what he should do for Dunn or Pena..... Randa he can be more flexible but don't just give him away either.

REDREAD

07-18-2005, 12:26 PM

clubs that have spoken with the Reds say he's [Randa] been insanely overpriced. The White Sox, Indians and Twins have had some degree of interest. But all those teams are believed to view Randa as no more than a secondary priority

Way to go DanO, let's alienate potential trading partners and have them look elsewhere for an offense boost. The Indians are not stupid. They aren't going to trade Sowers and another prospect to rent Randa for a half season.
It will certainly be interesting to see how the chips fall in a Randa trade. My guess is that DanO is way overplaying his hand, and isn't going to score much in the end.

larryboy

07-18-2005, 12:28 PM

O'Brien is a mess. This team juat is not close right now. They need to rebuild and add as many good young players as possible. Opening a spot to allow a young guy to play also has value for the Reds right now. Keeping an overload in one area also does not help. O'Brien just does not get the concept of rebuilding and opening spots for guys. Yes its tough to give up good players, but they are currency to be used to add for the future.

A side note, how much does the Reds possibly being for sale effect this inaction? Could the lack of movement also be driven by the fear of devalueing the CURRENT franchise value at the expense of the future.

redsandrails

07-18-2005, 12:35 PM

How about Dunn and Claussen for Halladay and Alexis Rios??

Anyways...This is crazy...

Look at the discussed bats-

Thome- 193 AB, .207, 7 HR, 30 RBI, .360, .352, .712. 34 years, 13 million.
Dunn- 297 AB, .242, 24 HR, 54 RBI, .391, .562, .953. 25 years, 4.6 million.

Dunn is better in EVERY offensive category, 9 years younger and 9 million cheaper. Thome is really struggling....Damaged goods.

Lowell- 300 AB, .227, 4 HR, 36 RBI, .280, .350, .630. 31 years, 7.5 million.
Randa- 315 AB, .292, 12 HR, 45 RBI, .360, .489, .848. 35 years, 2.1 million.

Randa demolishes Lowell in all offensive categories as well. This is a no brainer... Both Thome and Lowell are damaged goods....Dunn and Randa are clearly not.

Red Leader

07-18-2005, 12:38 PM

I wonder how much DanO is costing himself watching the clock tick.

I personally think with a player like Randa, you are costing yourself by holding onto him.

Teams know that they only have him until the end of the year...so why hold him until July 31st, that's less time that a contending team has him. The shorter time they have him, the less they are likely to give up more for him. Do the damn deal already.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 12:38 PM

How about Dunn and Claussen for Halladay and Alexis Rios??

nope.

KronoRed

07-18-2005, 12:48 PM

Do the damn deal already.

:clap:

Overpricing only works if other teams desperately want the player, I really don't see any team wanting Randa that bad, he's not an ace pitcher nor is he hitting home runs every night, he's having an above average year, but he's not killing the ball..most teams will hold onto prospects and hope for the best at 3rd base.

flyer85

07-18-2005, 12:54 PM

I wonder how much DanO is costing himself watching the clock tick.

I personally think with a player like Randa, you are costing yourself by holding onto him.Especially when you realize he played WAY OVER his head in the first half of the season.

However, we have no way of knowing what is being offered right now, teams may offer more if they get desperate as the dealine approaches. In the case of DanO and his tin ear, I can see him completely misjudging the market and getting either 1)stuck with Randa or 2)giving him away for almost nothing

I don't really see any good outcomes from this trading deadline(we didn't last year) other than possibly addition by subtraction.

paulrichjr

07-18-2005, 12:57 PM

Incompetence that he's asking for Jeremy Sowers & another prospect for Randa. He may just price Randa right out of the trade market. And then we get nothing & EdE won't begin to get true MLB experience until next season.

Does anyone besides me remember the deal that Tampa Bay made with the NYM last year. Everyone on this board would consider that laughable...DanO might just pull a Kazmir out of the hat because he is shooting for one.

flyer85

07-18-2005, 01:00 PM

In the case of DanO, doing nothing or asking a really high price may be the best outcome for the future of the Reds.

TeamBoone

07-18-2005, 01:20 PM

Jpup

07-18-2005, 01:24 PM

Why can't the Reds do this? Why is it an option only for other teams?

that's just Steve Phillips being an ESPN guy. They all think that Cincy can't afford to win. That is just not the case. The Reds can afford him easily.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 01:26 PM

Starks, moments ago, on ESPN.com chat:

John (Houston): Do you see the Astros making any moves for a quality bat i.e. Adam Dunn or any pitching to help out the bullpen to make another late season push?

Jayson Stark: (1:22 PM ET ) The Astros could be an interesting team in the next two weeks. They still have some of the money Carlos Beltran wouldn't take, so they can add salary. And they're in the market for outfield and bullpen help. Adam Dunn is their No. 1 target, but the Reds are moving really slowly on this.

Everyone seems to think the Reds should give this guy away. :bang:

riddelde

07-18-2005, 01:27 PM

nope.

Really? You wouldn't make this deal? Halladay is a Cy Young winner and could win another one this year.

Pretty sure the Jays would never make this deal, but I would absolutely do it if I were the Reds. Dunn's a great player, but come on. You're talking about one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball right there.

Look at the guy's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6134

He's the true definition of an ace. Put Halladay at the top of the Reds rotation for the next 5 years, and they'd be in pretty good shape.

Are we trying to win games here or not? Halladay is a 20 game winner who would singlehandedly upgrade the Reds pitching from "terrible" to "adequate." There is NO player more valuable in baseball than an ace starter. I realize it's a moot point because the Jays would never even think of offering this trade, but I would certainly accept it if offered.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 01:30 PM

Red Leader

07-18-2005, 01:30 PM

I would give Adam Dunn up in a heartbeat for Jeremy Bonderman. That kid is wicked sick. He's only, what? 22, and he's pitching scary good right now. He's going to be better than Halladay in a year or two.

He's the one that Beane is going to kick himself in the butt for trading.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 01:32 PM

Really? You wouldn't make this deal? Halladay is a Cy Young winner and could win another one this year.

Pretty sure the Jays would never make this deal, but I would absolutely do it if I were the Reds. Dunn's a great player, but come on. You're talking about one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball right there.

Look at the guy's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6134

He's the true definition of an ace. Put Halladay at the top of the Reds rotation for the next 5 years, and they'd be in pretty good shape.

Are we trying to win games here or not? Halladay is a 20 game winner who would singlehandedly upgrade the Reds pitching from "terrible" to "adequate." There is no player more valuable in baseball than an ace starter. I realize it's a moot point because the Jays would never even think of offering this trade, but I would certainly accept it if offered.

Halladay has a broken leg. That kind of turned me off to the deal. :thumbup:

riddelde

07-18-2005, 01:36 PM

Halladay has a broken leg. That kind of turned me off to the deal. :thumbup:

Fair enough. Still, we're looking at a 4-6 week injury here not something career-threatening. If it were an arm injury, I'd be a little more concerned. There's no indication this injury will affect him down the road.

Either way, it's not gonna happen from the Jays side, so I guess it's not worth discussing.

I think Bondermann is gonna be a star too, but he's going nowhere.

Blimpie

07-18-2005, 01:36 PM

Steve Phillips: (12:15 PM ET ) Adam Dunn is the most interesting consideration for the Reds. He will make close to $9 million through arbitration and the Reds can't afford him and Griffey with such a low overall payroll. Dunn would be interesting at the deadline and I suspect the Reds could bring back one ML ready starting pitcher, on nearly ready pitcher and possibly a position prospect. Teams in the race would have interest but also clubs who are not in the race because they can control his contract after this year and manipulate their roster to afford his salary. He would be a great fit for the Blue Jays who need power and like OBP. The Jays have about $160M to spend in '06-'07Am I just imagining it, or wasn't it just last week that Steve Phillips said that Dunn would make close to $ 7 million in arbitration. If so, why the bump-up in expected pay over the last week or so?

Jpup

07-18-2005, 01:40 PM

Am I just imagining it, or wasn't it just last week that Steve Phillips said that Dunn would make close to $ 7 million in arbitration. If so, why the bump-up in expected pay over the last week or so?

maybe JimBo called and straightened him out? Maybe he has been reading RedsZone?

Hubba

07-18-2005, 01:51 PM

Other GMs annoyed with O'Brien's incompetence? I'm absolutely SHOCKED! where did it say that?:rolleyes:

Strikes Out Looking

07-18-2005, 02:01 PM

corkedbat

07-18-2005, 02:02 PM

Steve Phillips (moments ago on Dunn)

I suspect the Reds could bring back one ML ready starting pitcher, on nearly ready pitcher and possibly a position prospect.

Billingsley, Broxton (or Tiffany) and Martin.

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 02:05 PM

where did it say that?:rolleyes:

Right here:

But despite all that talk of a bidding frenzy building around the eminently available Randa, clubs that have spoken with the Reds say he's been insanely overpriced.

It may not state the exact sentiments of the other GMs, but if you have ever been in a negotiation of any sort, and experienced your opposition making unrealistic and ridiculous demands, you are far more likely to look for other options than meet such demands. In fact, it's likely you will pull the plug all-together with your negotiations. The fact that the writer termed O'Brien's demand for Randa "insanely overpriced" tells me that he will lose the patience & interest from other clubs because he's being ridiculous in his demands.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 02:09 PM

Right here:

It may not state the exact sentiments of the other GMs, but if you have ever been in a negotiation of any sort, and experienced your opposition making unrealistic and ridiculous demands, you are far more likely to look for other options than meet such demands. In fact, it's likely you will pull the plug all-together with your negotiations. The fact that the writer termed O'Brien's demand for Randa "insanely overpriced" tells me that he will lose the patience & interest from other clubs because he's being ridiculous in his demands.

you have to remember that Jason Stark may be quoting himself. I don't care much for anonymous sources.

traderumor

07-18-2005, 02:11 PM

J.R. -- Grand Rapids MI: any chance Griffey ends up wearing pinstripes this summer?

Jayson Stark: (1:28 PM ET ) There's another rumor we can send off into the sunset. I've been told the Yankees are telling everyone they're not interested in taking on salary-dump players with uncertain health histories (i.e. Junior).But, they are looking for fading pitchers without much stuff hoping that one of them might turn out to be lightning in a bottle (i.e. Al Leiter) or pitchers on their third team this season (Tim Redding). I'm still hoping that as they go down their options, one Eric Milton enters into their desperate attempts to put together a starting rotation.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 02:13 PM

But, they are looking for fading pitchers without much stuff hoping that one of them might turn out to be lightning in a bottle (i.e. Al Leiter) or pitchers on their third team this season (Tim Redding). I'm still hoping that as they go down their options, one Eric Milton enters into their desperate attempts to put together a starting rotation.

I still think the Yankees want him. Someone get the Boss on the phone and tell him Jr. is on fire.

He has been told that the Yankees are telling everyone.... :help:

What a joke.

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 02:14 PM

you have to remember that Jason Stark may be quoting himself. I don't care much for anonymous sources.

Very true. But would it surprise you all that much if it were true?

Jpup

07-18-2005, 02:25 PM

Very true. But would it surprise you all that much if it were true?

no. :D

FreelFanatic

07-18-2005, 03:48 PM

I'd trade Dunn for Halliday or Bonderman. Let's face it, the Reds need quality starting pitchers. While the offense would miss Dunn's homers, the team still has a number of guys who can hit 30 dingers--but there is no one who can come close to winning 20 games.

Amen. Who cares if we put 10 on the board if our pitchers give up 11? It's telling that we're leading the NL in Homers and RBI's and are second in runs and SLG%, but have the second worst record in the league. You can't win with a power-filled lineup and no pitching, especially when the power comes in the Rob Deer form of home run or strikeout (which everyone knows we're leading the league in by a large margin). I'm praying for parity, and I'm praying we do it by trading Dunn.

pedro

07-18-2005, 03:55 PM

Amen. Who cares if we put 10 on the board if our pitchers give up 11? It's telling that we're leading the NL in Homers and RBI's and are second in runs and SLG%, but have the second worst record in the league. You can't win with a power-filled lineup and no pitching, especially when the power comes in the Rob Deer form of home run or strikeout (which everyone knows we're leading the league in by a large margin). I'm praying for parity, and I'm praying we do it by trading Dunn.

Ah the elusive Rob Deer argument. How original.

I'm appalled by the lack of actual fact checking going on around here lately. Lot's of opinions with little ammunition to back them up.

FreelFanatic

07-18-2005, 03:58 PM

I don't know how to copy code, but you can question my "fact checking ability" here:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/sbn/sbn05team2.htm

All of those team statistics are true and current. And BTW, I was a Rob Deer fan, just not a fan of a lineup of Rob Deers. Or a lineup of Rob Deer, since Deer is the plural form of Deer.

pedro

07-18-2005, 04:01 PM

I don't know how to copy code, but you can question my "fact checking ability" here:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/sbn/sbn05team2.htm

All of those team statistics are true and current. And BTW, I was a Rob Deer fan, just not a fan of a lineup of Rob Deers.

and who is Rob Deer on the Reds and what is your actual statistical evidence for making such a comparison? (I give you a clue - there isn't any)

Aronchis

07-18-2005, 04:04 PM

DanO is playing Randa right though his bluff has been called. He is trying to get a teams best pitching prospect but they aren't going for the bluff right now. At some point, DanO is going to have to take the lesser deal. Randa had a hot month and now is showing another "cool" period. Teams know this and won't give O'brien what he wants, which may drag Randa's time with the Reds out a little longer.

BRM

07-18-2005, 04:04 PM

You can't win with a power-filled lineup and no pitching, especially when the power comes in the Rob Deer form of home run or strikeout.

Or a double (Reds are 1st in NL) or a walk (4th in NL). Believe it or not, the Reds are actually 7th in the NL in everyone's favorite stat - batting average. :)

The Reds are not simply a HR or strikeout team.

FreelFanatic

07-18-2005, 04:31 PM

The Reds are not simply a HR or strikeout team.

Again, you guys seem to be missing my point. As I said 1st, in reply to...

While the offense would miss Dunn's homers, the team still has a number of guys who can hit 30 dingers--but there is no one who can come close to winning 20 games.

...it doesn't matter how many runs our lineup can score if our pitchers can't shut down the other team. Anyone here heard of humor? Rob Deer to me is funny. I like Adam Dunn, but I don't like his 96 strikeouts or his .242 batting average. Yes, he's only below Freel on the team in OBP (.391 to .406). And yes, I believe OBP is much more important than Average. But, like Centralchamps05 clearly stated, we can make up the home runs, hell we have a monster power hitter lighting up AAA as we speak. But we can't produce 20 wins, let alone 15 (and possibly this year, let alone 10...considering the team lead is 5) from within the organization. I would much rather have three 15-game winners and three 30-home run hitters than 0 and 6.

Jpup

07-18-2005, 04:33 PM

Again, you guys seem to be missing my point. As I said 1st, in reply to...

...it doesn't matter how many runs our lineup can score if our pitchers can't shut down the other team. Anyone here heard of humor? Rob Deer to me is funny. I like Adam Dunn, but I don't like his 96 strikeouts or his .242 batting average. Yes, he's only below Freel on the team in OBP (.391 to .406). And yes, I believe OBP is much more important than Average. But, like Centralchamps05 clearly stated, we can make up the home runs, hell we have a monster power hitter lighting up AAA as we speak. But we can't produce 20 wins, let alone 15 (and possibly this year, let alone 10...considering the team lead is 5) from within the organization. I would much rather have three 15-game winners and three 30-home run hitters than 0 and 6.

Mr. Obvious said, "Wins are a poor way to judge a pitcher."

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 04:33 PM

I like Kearns alot, but I don't know what you're smoking thinking that he can fill the void Adam Dunn would leave offensively.

Blimpie

07-18-2005, 04:35 PM

Again, you guys seem to be missing my point. As I said 1st, in reply to...

...it doesn't matter how many runs our lineup can score if our pitchers can't shut down the other team. Anyone here heard of humor? Rob Deer to me is funny. I like Adam Dunn, but I don't like his 96 strikeouts or his .242 batting average. Yes, he's only below Freel on the team in OBP (.391 to .406). And yes, I believe OBP is much more important than Average. But, like Centralchamps05 clearly stated, we can make up the home runs, hell we have a monster power hitter lighting up AAA as we speak. But we can't produce 20 wins, let alone 15 (and possibly this year, let alone 10...considering the team lead is 5) from within the organization. I would much rather have three 15-game winners and three 30-home run hitters than 0 and 6.Kearns has been called many things, but a 'monster power hitter' probably isn't one of them...

07-18-2005, 04:48 PM

Randa is the other third baseman on the menu for teams that don't want Lowell's price tag. But despite all that talk of a bidding frenzy building around the eminently available Randa, clubs that have spoken with the Reds say he's been insanely overpriced. The White Sox, Indians and Twins have had some degree of interest. But all those teams are believed to view Randa as no more than a secondary priority. "We're just lukewarm about him," said an official of one team that at least checked in on Randa. "He's had a nice year. But he's never played on a winning team. And he's not the kind of player you overpay for."

My take is these other clubs doth protest too much. Insanely overpriced probably means the Reds are asking for a quality primary prospect and a solid secondary one in the deal. Frankly, if I'm the Twins and I can get Randa for Scott Baker and Travis Bowyer, I jump on that. That's not overpaying. That's filling a gaping wound in your lineup with a veteran playing real good baseball for some of the depth you've built up in your minors. That's how it's supposed to work.

IMO, if the White Sox don't want to be done in three or four games in October they ought to be willing to make a serious offer on anybody who doesn't completely suck at the plate and can play the left side of the IF.

What you've got right now is teams that want something for nothing. More power to them, but all DanO should have to do is ask them whether they actually want to win something before the inevitable day they get fired. Honestly, I don't see how Terry Ryan can turn him away. The ChiSox have pitched out of the their minds this season and the Twins are probably going to have to beat out the Yankees or Red Sox if they want to make the playoffs.

If I'm DanO, I'm shooting him e-mails that say "Hey Terry, some of us midwest GMs were thinking of getting together to watch the playoffs. Melvin's got high-def at his place on Lake Michigan and Baird's bringing up some authentic KC barbecue. I figured I should mention it to you since your team's stuck in neutral and those monsters in the east are heating up and you don't seem inclined to do anything about it. Anyway, see you there."

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 04:53 PM

If I'm DanO, I'm shooting him e-mails that say "Hey Terry, some of us midwest GMs were thinking of getting together to watch the playoffs. Melvin's got high-def at his place on Lake Michigan and Baird's bringing up some authentic KC barbecue. I figured I should mention it to you since your team's stuck in neutral and those monsters in the east are heating up and you don't seem inclined to do anything about it. Anyway, see you there." :laugh:

I really do think there is merit behind contenders parting with a prospect or 2 in order to get much needed help to shore up weaknesses. I remember when the Reds gave up B.J. Ryan in 1999 for Juan Guzman at the deadline. I know alot of you here disagree, but I feel that trade was worth it from the standpoint that the Reds nearly made the playoffs that year & Guzman pitched oustanding for us. On a normal year, our record would have cruised into the playoffs, sadly the Mets got us in the end. But my feeling is that the Orioles were fortunate that Ryan panned out & turned into a great reliever, but Guzman's performance for the Reds made that trade worth it.

07-18-2005, 04:58 PM

I really do think there is merit behind contenders parting with a prospect or 2 in order to get much needed help to shore up weaknesses. I remember when the Reds gave up B.J. Ryan in 1999 for Juan Guzman at the deadline. I know alot of you here disagree, but I feel that trade was worth it from the standpoint that the Reds nearly made the playoffs that year & Guzman pitched oustanding for us. On a normal year, our record would have cruised into the playoffs, sadly the Mets got us in the end. But my feeling is that the Orioles were fortunate that Ryan panned out & turned into a great reliever, but Guzman's performance for the Reds made that trade worth it.

I completely agree. I've never once pined for Ryan. Guzman kept the Reds in one of the most exciting pennant races I've ever seen. Ryan was a good prospect who took four seasons to come around. A starting pitcher who helps drive your club to 96 wins is worth that.

Red Leader

07-18-2005, 05:01 PM

I'm not against that trade, but it still irks me that the pitcher we dealt ends up being a left handed K-machining stud. I'd be trying to hire the scout that suggested the O's get Ryan in return.

MartyFan

07-18-2005, 05:13 PM

Other GMs annoyed with O'Brien's incompetence? I'm absolutely SHOCKED!

Cheap shot that is pandering to the board :thumbdown ...c'mon, would you rather they LOVE what he is asking for? Think it through...I am happy the other GM's are thinking any of our players are overpriced...lets them know they have to give up something to get something.

TeamBoone

07-18-2005, 06:07 PM

I like Adam Dunn, but I don't like his 96 strikeouts or his .242 batting average.

Oh come on! Those two stats are moot when you consider all the other, more meaningful stats, that he excels in.

Adam Dunn is the least of the Reds problems. Why can't people see this?

I hate people hitting into double plays... a strikeout is a whole lot better than making two outs with one swing of the bat, plus robbing the team of a baserunner. Much worse.

OSURedLeg

07-18-2005, 08:28 PM

Cheap shot that is pandering to the board :thumbdown ...c'mon, would you rather they LOVE what he is asking for? Think it through...I am happy the other GM's are thinking any of our players are overpriced...lets them know they have to give up something to get something.

I shouldn't have phrased it so strongly MartyFan I agree. But to bring it down to the simplest terms of how I fear the situation is, it sounds like O'Brien is trying to trade a Railroad property for Park Place straight up, & I am very concerned that his rebuttles will irritate other GMs to the extent that they will go somewhere else to fill their needs. I don't disagree at all with what you're saying, but as I've asserted - I'm not at all convinced that DanO has the intelligence & creativity to make beneficial trades for the Cincinnati Reds. It is simply my opinion, and next time I will avoid such strong language when conveying it.

Aronchis

07-18-2005, 08:40 PM

Randa for Baker/Bowyer sounds good, Baker throws the low 90's sinker O'brien craves, I even would throw in Richie Gardner if there was a holdup. If I was O'brien, I would be dealing all Bowden era pitching draftee's for other teams talent.

Plus it isn't like Baker's the most talented pitcher in the world, he probably will be a moderately better pitcher than Harang if it works out. If the Twins can't do that, they have a problem I can't solve.