Cincinnati RailRaiders

[macro]

Do you like the new name?

Do you like the new logo?


http://www.theahl.com/AHL/News/2005/10/20/cincinnati06a_200.jpg

Anyone else wish they'd revived this name and logo:

http://www.laughinghyena.net/LogoServer/hockey/CincinnatiStingers7980.GIF

RailRaiders Official Site: http://www.railraiders.com/

[westofyou]

Ughh that's a bad name... please tell me it's not hockey.

[WVRed]

I miss this one myself.

http://www.nhlcollector.com/website/Pucks/Puck%20Pages/Cincinnati%20Mighty%20Ducks.jpg

[Chip R]

Ughh that's a bad name... please tell me it's not hockey.
It's a horrible name. Unfortunately it is hockey. I think even the Mighty Ducks is better than the RailRiders.

[Yachtzee]

Should have gone with "Porkopolitans."

[westofyou]

Should have gone with "Porkopolitans."

Or Swords or Suds

[HotCorner]

Personally I like the name and logo.

[TeamBoone]

Personally, I wish it was the Cyclones. And what's everyone got against hockey in Cincinnati. I love it (loved it... Cyclones).

[RedFanAlways1966]

Cincinnati Lindners. After all he kept the REDS in Cincy, right?!?! A nice tribute to the old man!

<runs and hides before being beaten or permanently banned>

:p:

[OldRightHander]

I would have liked to see the Stingers name brought back, but beggers can't be choosers. I'm just glad they got another team back in town. Sure, I follow the NHL, but those minor league games are actually affordable to attend on a more regular basis.

[RedsFan75]

Stingers, Cyclones were great, although I do like the logo not too keen on the name.

[savafan]

What is a railraider? Is that like a bandit who robbed trains in the wild west?

[OldRightHander]

The Stingers were my first exposure to the sport. I always get nostalgic when I see that logo.

[westofyou]

What is a railraider? Is that like a bandit who robbed trains in the wild west?
On the east side of the city there was IRRC (around Milford/Miamville) a civil war era group that raided trains. The story when I was a kid was that their ghosts haunt the tracks.

We went out there once in a dense fog in the middle of the night.

It was creepy.

[KronoRed]

Rail what? I thought this was a post about another arena team ;)

[cincinnati chili]

Maybe if they play in union terminal, I'll take a shine to the name. Otherwise, it's stooopid.

[NoCalRed]

Or Swords or Suds

Suds I believe was the name of a pro or semi pro softball team there a number of years ago. Their manager was my little league coach before he became the Suds manager. That's how we got the invite to play an exhibition little league game at Riverfront as the opener for the Suds.

[westofyou]

Suds I believe was the name of a pro or semi pro softball team there a number of years ago. Their manager was my little league coach before he became the Suds manager. That's how we got the invite to play an exhibition little league game at Riverfront as the opener for the Suds.

http://www.cincysports.net/Suds.htm

The Detroit pro franchise (in softball) was owned by the guy who owns the Tigers and The Red Wings, they were called the Ceasers IRRC, he also owns Little Ceasers.

[macro]

Well, so much for the RailRaiders. We hardly knew ye.


http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/SPT/604060400/1062

No 2006-07 season for RailRaiders
BY RYAN ERNST | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

The Cincinnati RailRaiders, a minor-league hockey franchise without a coach or players, won't have a 2006-07 season either.

The American Hockey League franchise announced Wednesday it did not reach its goal of 2,000 deposits on season tickets and will not be able to secure a National Hockey League affiliation for the upcoming season.

The franchise had been trying to replace its previous AHL team, the Cincinnati Mighty Ducks, who were moved to Portland, Maine, after the 2004-05 season by their NHL parent club, the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim.

The RailRaiders ownership group is headed by the Robinson family, which also owns Cincinnati Gardens. Pete Robinson, the team's president and CEO, said the future of hockey in the city is up in the air. The ownership group has been contacted by other leagues, and Robinson said selling the AHL franchise is a possibility.

"Everything was geared toward the relaunch for this season," Robinson said. "The campaign was nine months long. We worked really hard, but we weren't able to reach our goal.

"... It's about stability. Every team in the NHL has to develop players in a place where local ownership can make a go of it. We're not able to do that."

The most recent hockey tenants at the Gardens were the Cincinnati Cyclones and the Cincinnati Mighty Ducks. Because the Robinsons still owned rights to an AHL franchise, the ownership came up with a new team name and logo after the Ducks departed, and began selling tickets for 2006-07, hoping to attract a club.

More than 80 percent of the ticket-sales goal was reached, the team announced. Team officials said the 2,000 season-ticket number was the benchmark for making an AHL team financially viable in Cincinnati.

AHL franchises, which compete at the highest level of hockey under the NHL, have until May 15 to declare themselves active or inactive.

"Obviously, we're disappointed that the goal was not met," said Don Helbig, the team's communications director.

Helbig said the biggest loss for local hockey fans would be not seeing professionals passing through town on their way to the NHL.

"That type of player will never come back to Cincinnati again," he said.



http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/SPT/604060317/-1/all&template=printpicart

Hockey could be gone for long time
By John Lachmann
Post contributor

After less than six months of the Cincinnati RailRaiders' existence, it turns out the American Hockey League team will not even be leaving the station.
Now Cincinnati could be without hockey for a long time.

The RailRaiders announced Wednesday they will not affiliate with an NHL team in 2006-07 after their season-ticket campaign fell short, leaving the AHL franchise in dormant status.

The team launched its season-ticket campaign in October and stated it needed 2,000 full-season ticket holders to move forward and lure an NHL affiliate here. The RailRaiders only secured 80 percent of that goal, or about 1,600 tickets.

"We are grateful for the support we received from fans, media, and the American Hockey League during the ticket campaign," franchise CEO and president Pete Robinson in a press release. "Unfortunately, the numbers, while strong, were not where they needed to be."

Robinson had said throughout the campaign that the 2,000 figure was necessary for the RailRaiders just to break even financially, and also to lure an NHL affiliate to Cincinnati.

Timing was as much of a factor as the support. Most AHL and NHL teams work out agreements well before this time of the year, which is why the RailRaiders could no longer continue trying to build their season-ticket foundation.

"NHL clubs begin making their affiliation plans in February and March, and we just did not have the numbers to secure an arrangement," Robinson said. "We had talks with two NHL clubs as late as yesterday."

Robinson would not say which teams he talked to. Columbus, an ideal potential NHL suitor, dropped out of the running about two months ago because of the lag in Cincinnati's ticket sales.

The Robinson family owns the Cincinnati Gardens, and Pete Robinson probably will not make another attempt to bring a team here. The only other viable rink for professional hockey in the area is U.S. Bank Arena. The Cyclones' International Hockey League franchise was drawing poorly there when that league folded, and the ECHL version drew even worse before going dormant.

The Cincinnati Gardens has now gone nearly a full year without a full-time tenant. If Robinson does not intend to bring hockey back to Cincinnati, it would make sense to sell his now-dormant AHL franchise.

"We haven't really spent any time talking about what other options we may have," Robinson said. "I'm sure that after today we will take some time ... and we'll evaluate every opportunity."

The Gardens still holds concerts and other events, and also had hockey this past season, albeit at the high school and youth levels. Robinson would not say whether the Cincinnati Gardens would continue hosting hockey games next season.

"I don't know, I can't answer, 'what's going to happen?'" Robinson said.
Robinson also is unsure why the ticket drive failed. The team hired an advertising agency and ran a commercial spot for months to attract potential fans. The push seemed to work, since most of the 1,600 season-ticket deposits were from new business.

A few possible reasons for the shortage:

Too few hockey fans in Cincinnati. Worcester, Mass., ran a similar campaign, and it went so well the owners ended it months early because it achieved a sufficient base.

Lack of clarity in marketing. Some fans believed the team was already set to hit the ice this fall, and were oblivious to the team's urgent need to build a season-ticket base.

Ducks' lack of success. Cincinnati won just one playoff series in eight seasons, and the Ducks' attendance lagged well below that of the Cyclones when they made deep playoff runs while playing in the Gardens in the early 1990s. If the Ducks had a better resume, that success probably would have carried over to the RailRaiders.

"I don't point my finger at anything," Robinson said. "Maybe from our perspective it's just not there. Maybe to be in the second-best league in the world isn't as big of a thing as we certainly feel it is."

[TeamBoone]

This makes me crazy. A whole lot of people will not invest in season tickets for a team they have never seen play... that doesn't mean that they won't once they've seen the product.

Anybody who follows hockey in Cincinnati knows it's popular... there's no way they would lose money just because they fell short on season ticket sales BEFORE the team even hit the ice!

Crap. I am sooooo disappointed.

[KronoRed]

RIP Cincy hockey.

[Yachtzee]

What was dumb was the lack of cross-marketing for tickets with the Blue Jackets. If the Blue Jackets were an interested suitor, why not get them on board all the way to help sell tickets. What better way to promote interest in Cincinnati AND Columbus hockey? See Columbus' stars of tomorrow in Cincinnati today. It works for the MLB in many cases. It should have been a no-brainer.

[M2]

This makes me crazy. A whole lot of people will not invest in season tickets for a team they have never seen play... that doesn't mean that they won't once they've seen the product.

Anybody who follows hockey in Cincinnati knows it's popular... there's no way they would lose money just because they fell short on season ticket sales BEFORE the team even hit the ice!

Crap. I am sooooo disappointed.

TB, while I'm sure there's some hockey fans in Cincinnati, clearly there weren't enough who loved the game so much they'd plunk down their cash for a new franchise. I'm sure there's probably a metric which guides franchise owners on how many walkups you'd get given a season ticket base of x thousand. Maybe Cincinnati would be a stronger walkup market, but I doubt anyone wants to risk that.

Getting an AHL franchise is a competitive business. You can pretty much tab any populous area in the northeast and be swimming in fans (e.g. Worcester just did it, in fact my brother-in-law plunked down for two season tickets). I can think of two spots in metro Boston where an AHL team could sell out its entire first season before the first puck ever dropped.

Then you've got largely untapped hockey hotbeds like Minnesota-Wisconsin-Michigan and the Mountain West region, not to mention Quebec City and Windsor. The AHL has a lot of options and any city that can't show immense support in the planning stages is going to get left behind.

[Chip R]

I think there are hockey fans here but they are still so attached to the Cyclones or Ducks or the Garden or the Insert Name Here Arena that they aren't willing to support a new team in the Gardens. From what I understood there were many Cyclones fans that wouldn't support the Ducks even after the Cyclones folded.

It's a business like every other sports franchise. If they couldn't even sell 1,500 season tickets then they really don't deserve a team if some other city in an area that really would support hockey could easily sell 2,000 tickets.

[rdiersin]

Personally, I wish it was the Cyclones. And what's everyone got against hockey in Cincinnati. I love it (loved it... Cyclones).

I loved the Cyclones too, TB. When I was in HS, we'd go to a lot of the games. They got very good support when they were in the Gardens. I didn't go to many games when they moved to the Coliseum, but mainly that was because I was away. IMO, it seemed liked the support waned with the addition of the Mighty Ducks. I went to a couple of their games, but the city just couldn't support two hockey teams. But when there was just the Cyclones at the Gardens, it got very good support. It was typical for there to be sellouts on the weekends and there was a very loyal season ticket base from what I remember. I think the new AHL team would have been nice to have and they would have done well, so its sad to see the won't be another team.

[Rychian]

The same thing happened up north here in Cleveland. On Saturday night my wife and I went to see the last Cleveland Barons game (previously Lumberjacks) before they left town for Worcester Mass. I love Hockey, I play Hockey now in a senior league at Kent St. and the media does not support it at all. They didnt in Cincy either when I lived there. I checked the paper on Sunday morning for a box score for the game. Not one mention that a game took place, or that it was their last one. Now im stuck going to Youngstown to see me some minor league hockey. From what I have heard though, the arena is supposed to be sweet.


RIP Barons.

Tom

[westofyou]

Cleveland goes through hockey teams like Orson Wells went through candy bars.

The WHA, the NHL, AHL, etc.... they all fail in that market.

[M2]

If Cleveland and Cincinnati can't make the AHL cut, you've got to wonder how long Columbus can hold onto a team. So far it's had solid fan support, but if the club doesn't click in the next few seasons will Ohio fans continue to show up? It would be a first if they do.

[Chip R]

If Cleveland and Cincinnati can't make the AHL cut, you've got to wonder how long Columbus can hold onto a team. So far it's had solid fan support, but if the club doesn't click in the next few seasons will Ohio fans continue to show up? It would be a first if they do.

How do you think this new Collective Bargaining Agreement will help them out competitive-wise?

[westofyou]

How do you think this new Collective Bargaining Agreement will help them out competitive-wise?
It should work out fine, the problem is the market stability is based on the team winning faster than they might be able to, that is evidenced by the pumping up they had preseaon and the sloooooooowwwww start they had has hur them.

But aside for the Crew it's the only game in town outside of tOSU, sinc ethe area is fresh they have a better chance to create a market than say Cleveland that has other sports teams and a proximity to other hockey hotbeds.

One things for sur ethe BJ's need to shore up on some young defense

[M2]

How do you think this new Collective Bargaining Agreement will help them out competitive-wise?

What WOY said for the most part.

Though I'm not really sure the new CBA has helped smaller market teams. For instance, it's forced the Rangers to stop trying to buy their way to a championship. Instead they've had to impose some self-discipline, finding good team players instead of supposed standouts who don't mesh well together. Also it's forced the Rangers to get their feeder system up to speed. The big market clubs, now prevented from buying up players willy-nilly, are instead going to have to snatch up the best coaches and the best scouts. Expect some consolidation on that front.

That could be exceptionally dangerous because, more than any other sport, hockey is a system game. So the smaller market teams could be divvying up limited coaching/scouting resources until the big market systems begin to overflow with it.

It could leave Columbus fishing the free agent waters to substitute for what it can't produce as a system and that's a scary proposition. They don't have a lot of talent down in the AHL right now, Geoff Platt is about it.

[Rychian]

I think the major problem is who the teams are connected to. I love how the Akron Aeros players move up to the Indians. You can follow a guy his whole career here. I have done that with Sabbathia and Sizemore. The problem with the Barons was that they were connected to San Jose. Who can follow the player then. It would be fantastic if these players would go up to pittsburgh or columbus. Then you can always have the fun of saying, I remember that kid from the minors.

Cincy -> Anaheim? Weird.

Tom

[Yachtzee]

I think the major problem is who the teams are connected to. I love how the Akron Aeros players move up to the Indians. You can follow a guy his whole career here. I have done that with Sabbathia and Sizemore. The problem with the Barons was that they were connected to San Jose. Who can follow the player then. It would be fantastic if these players would go up to pittsburgh or columbus. Then you can always have the fun of saying, I remember that kid from the minors.

Cincy -> Anaheim? Weird.

Tom

We're on the same wavelength here. I realize the Barons-San Jose connection was primarily a result of common ownership of both teams (the Gund family, who also used to own the Cavs). However, it makes much more sense for a Cleveland team to be associated with Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Columbus or Detroit than San Jose, at least from a geographically-based fan interest perspective. For example, A Penguins minor league team in Cleveland will do more toward getting people to make the 1 1/2 hour drive from Cleveland to Pittsburgh for a game will go much further to generating fan interest for NHL in Cleveland and attendance in Pittsburgh. Same with Columbus-Cincinnati.

[westofyou]

Cincy -> Anaheim? Weird.

Part of those teams were Red Wings too.

[UKFlounder]

But I'm not sure how much any affiliation would matter to fans in this area. The most successful team - the early Cyclones in the Gardens - were nowhere near the NHL or NHL affiliations. They were pretty much one of the lowest levels of pro hockey, but the tickets were cheap and there was a lot of action - yes, including fighting - that made it a pretty cool event to attend.

Perhaps I'm totally wrong, but I'm not convinced that most Cyclone fans were really "hockey" fans - they simply liked a cheap & fun night out, and, at that time, hockey was still the new game in town. Perhaps some of that newness wore off as well, but the Cyclones of the ECHL were simply something fun to watch.

[Caveat Emperor]

Perhaps I'm totally wrong, but I'm not convinced that most Cyclone fans were really "hockey" fans - they simply liked a cheap & fun night out, and, at that time, hockey was still the new game in town. Perhaps some of that newness wore off as well, but the Cyclones of the ECHL were simply something fun to watch.

Bingo.

Cheap tickets, cheap beer, convenient parking @ the Gardens and a winning team with players who were good enough to be fun to watch (like Don Biggs, Paul Lawless and Pokey Reddick) was a winning combination for the Cyclones in their early years at the Gardens. They got nightly media coverage on local TV and radio, and it kept their exposure level high (which is important for a minor league franchise in an otherwise major league town).

As for this current venture -- I'd imagine it was harmed (greatly) by the fact that hockey really isn't on the radar screen, nationally, anymore. Also, I think they did a poor job communicating that the team wasn't a "sure thing" (none of the bilboards indicated that there was a chance of the team not existing) to the public. Also "RailRaiders"? I mean, if ever a name screamed: "Bush League" this was it.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

dont care for hockey but liked the hottie in the railraider commercials(the lady tending bar)

[Cyclone792]

dont care for hockey but liked the hottie in the railraider commercials(the lady tending bar)

That girl's name is Colby. A good friend of mine dated her a while back.

[Gizmo]

I'm a huge hockey fan, and had I been able to afford to, I would have ponied up in a heartbeat for 2-6 season tickets (depending on if brother and parents wanted to come too). I was hoping they'd make the cut so I could attend a few games this season and once I get myself into a career, get those season tickets. Now I'm stuck watching the few NHL games that get televised for another X years. :(

[westofyou]

Now I'm stuck watching the few NHL games that get televised for another X years. I have the Center Ice Package, I watch probably 6-10 games a week during the season. It's worth the investment for me.